we oppose European neo-fascism

agree
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Thank you, Mr. Spencer. I feel it's a very important distinction to make that we don't stand with these people, and your public rejection of them is right, important, and wise.

Now- about those fjordman essays....

adolf hitler was a community organizer. Ronald reagan was a governor

As usual Spencer sees it all the way through. He's a treasure.

To form one group for indigenous Europeans, as has been done in several countries, reduces virtually every issue to the one non-negotiable issue of race and ethnicity, discourages cooperation, and thus encourages Balkanization, works against the idea of representative government, and obscures the common values of Judeo-Christian civilization that are shared by people of many races and ethnicities...This approach hamstrings and marginalizes the anti-jihad movement. Many people who oppose the Islamization of Europe will never join with a race-based party to do so.

Nailed it.

The enemy of my enemy can still be utter and complete bastards - Kragar

re: #5 JohnAdams

As usual Spencer sees it all the way through. He's a treasure.

Agreed. I'd draft him as Secretary of State in my Fantasy Cabinet.

We bombed Cologne into rubble during WWII. Too bad we can't do the same to the current crop of fascists.

Robert has visited a few times recently and been very hard on posters here who have questioned his associating with some undesirable Serbian Nationalists.

So I no longer morally certain of the battle lines he draws.

The troglodytes meeting in Cologne are clearly fascist weenies, but so are some Serbians I can think of.

Good for Robert Spencer...Anyone who makes the fight against the Islamization of Europe an issue of race, or even of ethnic purity has already lost the battle.

The fight is about the presevation of freedom, and it should always be presented in those terms.

Was Pamela at the meeting?

re: #4 Shug

adolf hitler was a community organizer. Ronald reagan was a governor

Upding! Love it. You must be listening to Rush as well. He just played those stupid sound bytes.

Couldn't the American Nazi Party be considered 'community organizers' as well? Or the KKK? There's a very long list of people/groups that could be termed 'community organizers' who have done no good in this world.

These nazis are gonna get their butts kicked by muslim toughs.

The latter have numbers on their side, the former have oldsters on their side, who will soon be in nursing homes being diapered by muslim immigrants.

Too late, neo-fascists, too late.

Turn off the lights on your way out.

Jim Jones was a community organizer

re: #10 karmic_inquisitor

Robert has visited a few times recently and been very hard on posters here who have questioned his associating with some undesirable Serbian Nationalists.

So I no longer morally certain of the battle lines he draws.

The troglodytes meeting in Cologne are clearly t weenies, but so are some Serbians I can think of.

Tough to find anyone in Europe to completely get in with. They've all got knives up their sleeves and behind their ears. Any wonder why they started two world wars?

Unfortunately it appears most people in Europe would be completely lost if the government wasn't there to do everything for them. And so what happens when a threat emerges like that of radicl Islam? Either they close their eyes and try to ignore the problem or allow Fascists to take the issue and say "give us complete control and we'll handle it" and a significant portion of the population blindly follows them. From my perspective tt just seems to be one end of the pendulum or the other.

OT (I apologize): There is an ad running on tv in my area by freedomsdefensefund.com which very clearly connects Obama with Rev. Wright and his "G- D- America" speech. Does anyone know who this group is?

re: #13 kynna

Upding! Love it. You must be listening to Rush as well. He just played those stupid sound bytes.

Couldn't the American Nazi Party be considered 'community organizers' as well? Or the KKK? There's a very long list of people/groups that could be termed 'community organizers' who have done no good in this world.

The only Community Organizing I can approve of is torch-wielding posses that chase undead monsters around small, Eastern European towns.

re: #14 Maine's Michael

Maine's Michael! I love it when you talk tough.

re: #15 Hard Right

Jim Jones was a community organizer

and they still love his Kool Aid

re: #3 Sharmuta

Spencer's stand won't endear him with the F-man ...

re: #9 quickjustice

We bombed Cologne into rubble during WWII. Too bad we can't do the same to the current crop of fascists.

no need to glorify the destruction of cities and civilians IMO. sorry.

re: #22 guftafs

Spencer's stand won't endear him with the F-man ...

The F-bomb will go off on Spencer one day over at GoV. This may be the trigger. Now, if someone can actually wade through the F-bomb's prose to see what he is saying.

Excellent! And he's bucking some of his own readers to stand up on this issue.

Many, many people have written here, and will no doubt write again in response to this post, that the parties that speak of race are the only ones in Europe that are doing anything to resist Islamization, and thus they deserve the support of all those who believe there is something worth defending in Western non-Muslim civilization. I don't think that is any sounder an argument than the claim that we must support Hizballah because it builds schools and runs charities when not lobbing rockets at Israeli civilians.

re: #20 WriterMom

Maine's Michael! I love it when you talk tough.

You'd melt if you saw me in my Greek Helmet, lance, shield and speedo!

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

The F-bomb will go off on Spencer one day over at GoV. This may be the trigger. Now, if someone can actually wade through the F-bomb's prose to see what he is saying.

Who is the F-Bomb? Fitzgerald?

re: #18 hazeleyes

OT (I apologize): There is an ad running on tv in my area by freedomsdefensefund.com which very clearly connects Obama with Rev. Wright and his "G- D- America" speech. Does anyone know who this group is?

If it is the group I am thinking of it is headed by Howard Kaloogian, a Republican State Assemblyman (IIRC) from California's Central Valley.

Europe, which gleeflully participated in the virtual destruction of European Jewry decided to import Muslims to do their dirty work and because they wanted to suck up to the Muslim world for oil and screw Israel at the same time. Europe-soaked with the blood of the Holocaust is now perhaps regretting that they made a population import error. The piddling "neo-Nazi" movement will absolutely be out-birthed by the imports.

Looks good on you, Europe.

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

and they still love his Kool Aid

Now they snort the powder.

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

Heh ... yes the dread F-bomb, with it's ability to numb the best brains with its high BS radiation.

re: #29 WriterMom

Europe, which gleeflully participated in the virtual destruction of European Jewry decided to import Muslims to do their dirty work and because they wanted to suck up to the Muslim world for oil and screw Israel at the same time. Europe-soaked with the blood of the Holocaust is now perhaps regretting that they made a population import error. The piddling "neo-Nazi" movement will absolutely be out-birthed by the imports.

Looks good on you, Europe.

I have always believed that Europe is being punished with their problems now because of what they either did or let happen to the Jews 60 years ago.

re: #28 Colonel Panik

If it is the group I am thinking of it is headed by Howard Kaloogian, a Republican State Assemblyman (IIRC) from California's Central Valley.

Move America Forward?

The anti-jihad movement, if it is to become mainstream in Europe or the U.S., must articulate a positive vision of defense for the human rights of all people against the ways in which those human rights are contravened under Sharia, and avoid being diverted into side issues and non-issues, or formulating the problem incorrectly.

So -- I have taken down the post about the Cologne conference, and have restated these principles.

Bravo!

WHO IS THE F-BOMB?

Spot on article by Spencer. Robert has had a 100% consistent record on this matter.

#4 and all the way through the bottom of the article are light beams for those who lost their heads and went ahead to support this Cologne conference.

re: #28 Colonel Panik

If it is the group I am thinking of it is headed by Howard Kaloogian, a Republican State Assemblyman (IIRC) from California's Central Valley.

I was wrong about this. Kaloogian's outift is Move America Forward, whose primary spokesperson is Melanie Morgan.

re: #29 WriterMom

Europe, which gleeflully participated in the virtual destruction of European Jewry decided to import Muslims to do their dirty work and because they wanted to suck up to the Muslim world for oil and screw Israel at the same time. Europe-soaked with the blood of the Holocaust is now perhaps regretting that they made a population import error. The piddling "neo-Nazi" movement will absolutely be out-birthed by the imports.

Looks good on you, Europe.

The Jews have left Europe for the New World and for their ancient homeland.

God now smiles on America and Israel, as he prepares to punish those who burned his children.

re: #29 WriterMom

Serious question: What is Europe's beef with the Jews? I can see the ancient feud tied with Christianity and perhaps their fear of Jewish intellectual ties to early socialism, but Europe now is no more Christian than Michael Moore. And they utterly worship the Great Socialist Teet. So where's the problem?

re: #39 Maine's Michael

I'm in love! LOL.

You're on a roll, chabibi.

Even the Nazis can't get along with each other......
German nationalist group to rally against Islam

A nationalist German group said Friday it has invited leading members of the European right to take part in a "anti-Islamification" conference against the planned construction of a large mosque.

French far-right firebrand Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the anti-immigration National Front party, Filip Dewinter, leader of Belgium's nationalist Flemish Interest party and Christian Strache, leader of Austria's right-wing Freedom Party are all expected to attend next week's conference said Markus Beisicht, head of the Pro-Cologne nationalist movement.
.....
The group insists that, while it is nationalist and populist, it rejects racism, violence and any links to Germany's traditional right-wing parties, including the far-right National Democratic Party, or NPD.

"We represent a new political approach," said Beisicht.

I assume the NPD didn't want to cloak their agenda like the rest of them.

re: #39 Maine's Michael

The Jews have left Europe for the New World and for their ancient homeland.

God now smiles on America and Israel, as he prepares to punish those who burned his children.

With Obama running in America and Olmert already in power in Israel, I'm not convinced that God is smiling on either country at the moment. That will 'Change' soon, I hope.

re: #36 JSK1121

Fjordman.

re: #27 JSK1121

Who is the F-Bomb? Fitzgerald?

No. A person called Fjordman. Apparently he is from Norway, and has made lots of long winded articles about the encroachment of Islamism in Europe. He posts most of his stuff over at Gates Of Vienna (GoV) (or Gates of Vienna Beef as I call it). He tends to be supportive of the various fascist and ethnocentric political parties in Europe such as the Vlaams Belang (VB) and the British National Party (BNP).

It will be interesting to see if Pamela, GoV and Brussels Journal turn on Spencer the way they did Charles.

OT but anyone notice that Spencer's site has exploded to more than 24 million hits? Seems like that is up about 300% in the last year alone. Maybe he's gotten onto some mainstream search engines, but hopefully this indicates his growing influence. His site is what really woke me up to the full severity of the Islamist threat.

Europe is dead solid 100% correct in wanting to defend its heritage, culture, and the ideas of western civilization against what is clearly a much worse idea/system.

It is in the confusing of their cuture with DNA that they fail.

Civilization is an idea, not a ethnic group.

re: #19 JSK1121

The only Community Organizing I can approve of is torch-wielding posses that chase undead monsters around small, Eastern European towns.

Fire BAD! Uuuuunnngggghhh!

Meanwhile- the brussels journal is busy contorting itself over fascism, nazism and russia. I would link it, but they're not worth the effort.

re: #47 Killgore Trout

It will be interesting to see if Pamela, GoV and Brussels Journal turn on Spencer the way they did Charles.

Didn't they do so already?

re: #16 JohnAdams

Tough to find anyone in Europe to completely get in with. They've all got knives up their sleeves and behind their ears. Any wonder why they started two world wars?

I agree. Thus my skepticism on all of it.

BTW - here is the start of a thread I was speaking of - Killgore took Spencer to task and I think that "He protests too much" reveals itself. If you read what Killgore actually wrote, Spencer was being a bit unfair.

Thus my skepticism.

re: #40 JohnAdams

Serious answer:

Europe is in denial of its complicity in the Holocaust and the antisemitism that led to the Holocaust, so there is guilt-but no contrition, rather it turns into anger-how dare those Jews keep talking about it? How dare Israel rise up from the ashes. Europe is also dependent on oil, and the 1973 crisis rocked it. They made a tacit agreement-no stopping the flow of oil, if you become completely pro-Palestinian and just channel your anti-semitic roots into anti "Zionism" and anti-Israel behaviour. This suited Europe just fine.

Plus, Europe needed labour-thus the cultural swarming of Europe with Muslim immigrants with no reciprocal transfer of population (religion or culture) to the Muslim world. If you really want the info at your fingertips, read "Eurabia" by Bat Ye'or. Now there is also the post-Christian society theme at work, Europeans are not going to Church and having zero babies, so it will quickly become a Muslim continent.

France, in my estimate will become the first European Muslim country (officially). It already has a Muslim population in the double digits.

re: #51 Sharmuta

Meanwhile- the brussels journal is busy contorting itself over fascism, nazism and russia. I would link it, but they're not worth the effort.

It's not. He's a nutjob.

re: #47 Killgore Trout

It will be interesting to see if Pamela, GoV and Brussels Journal turn on Spencer the way they did Charles.

Heehee- that's why I went and looked at BJ. I wonder what sort of trash they'll put up on Robert.

re: #47 Killgore Trout

It will be interesting to see if Pamela, GoV and Brussels Journal turn on Spencer the way they did Charles.

Of course, Robert Spencer is an American so he obviously can't even begin to understand the struggle to preserve and defend European Culture.

/isn't that always the first line of attack?

Is this what our grandfathers fought and died for in WW II?

We spilled our most precious blood to free Europe from the Fascists and here they go again.....

re: #39 Maine's Michael

The Jews have left Europe for the New World and for their ancient homeland.

God now smiles on America and Israel, as he prepares to punish those who burned his children.

I'm not sure we're being smiled at. With an increasingly bubbling grounds of satanic hate and Islamicfascism around and in Israel, I sure that ain't a smile.

re: #41 WriterMom

I'm in love! LOL.

You're on a roll, chabibi.

Wait I got more!

The Israelite soldiers, battle hardened, their bodies glistening as they train under the Mediterranean sun, stand ready to inflict biblical damage on the Sons of Amalek and their Persian tormentors.

Sons of Israel, lift your lances, adjust your bathing suits -which can pinch most unpleasantly sometimes - and make the ground shake with your roar!

Forward!

/channeling The 300

re: #58 Lynn B.

Of course, Robert Spencer is an American so he obviously can't even begin to understand the struggle to preserve and defend European Culture.

/isn't that always the first line of attack?

Yep, it was the line of attack from Paul Belien, from Fjordman, and even from two Americans, Dymphna and Baron Bodissey. It was exactly what they accused us of.

re: #45 ploome hineni

IF the Serbs can be called fascists, and I do NOT agree

the Serbs have been abandoned by Christian Europe who support the Balkan muslims,

which muslims supported and fought WITH THE NAZIS

and NOW, are continuing the slaughter and displacement of Serbs

with COMPLICIT Europe

the situation is obscene

Please, ploome.

Did I say all? I said "some".

And recent history (last 10 years) certainly doesn't make my assertion unfair, does it? There are fascists in Serbia.

re: #64 karmic_inquisitor

Please, ploome.

Did I say all? I said "some".

And recent history (last 10 years) certainly doesn't make my assertion unfair, does it? There are fascists in Serbia.

And we saw how a few here supported them. One of them was that 1389 or whatever it called itself creep.

Rush having fun, Obama link to Alinsky the Satanist

re: #40 JohnAdams

Serious question: What is Europe's beef with the Jews? I can see the ancient feud tied with Christianity and perhaps their fear of Jewish intellectual ties to early socialism, but Europe now is no more Christian than Michael Moore. And they utterly worship the Great Socialist Teet. So where's the problem?

One reason given in a short summary: For centuries Jews were not allowed to own land, which was the biggest measure of a person's wealth and importance. As a result, they entered what businesses they could, such as banking and owning shops. After the Industrial Revolution, when land ownership became less important, many Jews were already in position for the new economy that dealt with the buying and selling of goods and were able make a profit. Many Europeans saw this and became resentful. Combine this with an already anti-Semtic mindset that some (not all) branches of Christianity promote and it isn't hard for some nut with good speaking ability to rally a crowd and get them to blame others, in this case the Jews, for their own problems.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day a fascist is still a fascist.

re: #61 Age Of Freedom

I'm not sure we're being smiled at. With an increasingly bubbling grounds of satanic hate and Islamicfascism around and in Israel, I sure that ain't a smile.

Yeah, I know. But somehow, I think things are going to be alright.

Things are moving in the right direction.

The muslim/arab world has overplayed its hand.

re: #62 Maine's Michael

OMG It's Jewhadi pRoN.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAH

re: #29 WriterMom

What the 2 world wars did not do, they will do to themselves.

re: #52 ploome hineni

EUrope died in Auschwitz

/spit

I'm glad someone in Europe still has the mental clarity to write such a poignant and powerful essay about the impending disaster that awaits them. I'll feel truly sorry for people like him when the Islamic hordes take over.

re: #64 karmic_inquisitor

Please, ploome.

Did I say all? I said "some".

And recent history (last 10 years) certainly doesn't make my assertion unfair, does it? There are fascists in Serbia.

Indeed- europe has plenty of ethnic nationalists in various countries. They have yet to evolve past the "blood and soil" instincts it seems.

re: #36 JSK1121

WHO IS THE F-BOMB?

Fjordman.

... and his "wall of text" essays that tend to be more digression than point.

re: #72 formercorpsman

They will still expect you (America) to bail them out, though.

re: #75 Spiny Norman

Fjordman.

... and his "wall of text" essays that tend to be more digression than point.

Sort of like a Biden speech?

re: #62 Maine's Michael

Wait I got more!

The Israelite soldiers, battle hardened, their bodies glistening as they train under the Mediterranean sun, stand ready to inflict biblical damage on the Sons of Amalek and their Persian tormentors.

Sons of Israel, lift your lances, adjust your bathing suits -which can pinch most unpleasantly sometimes - and make the ground shake with your roar!

Forward!

/channeling The 300

Have him stripped and oiled and brought to my tent.

/channeling Mandy

OT...the 3 little leftists of morning tv, joy bigass, stoopi goldberg, and baba (film me thru a filter)wawa, or as I refer to them the "barf your breakfast up club" tried to rile up McCain...[Link: elections.foxnews.com...]

re: #74 Sharmuta

Indeed- europe has plenty of ethnic nationalists in various countries. They have yet to evolve past the "blood and soil" instincts it seems.

I knew a guy who was a deeply nationalistic Alsatian. Alsace was swallowed a long time ago, as France and Germany played footsie with it. He wanted to start an armed insurrection.

Some habits die hard.

re: #59 Maximu§

Is this what our grandfathers fought and died for in WW II?

Grandfathers? You must be young. ;-)

re: #79 Alouette

LOL!

re: #71 WriterMom

OMG It's Jewhadi pRoN.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAH

I'm waiting for the next episode of Jews in Space, with Jewbacca, the Hassidic Wookiee

re: #84 Silhouette

Grandfathers? You must be young. ;-)

If "young" means "staring down both barrels of the mid-life crisis", then yes.

Soemhow, I just can't find it in me to give more than a rat's ass about who chooses to fight the muslims in europe -or how they go about it.

The muslims will learn that europe has a binary menu in its responses to challenges. It either lies down and rolls over, or tries genocide. . .

The non muslims of europe are about to learn, the hard way, that sucking off ofthe government teat and not having children has consequences, after a few decades . . .

/popcorn time for this boychik. May the least worst Jew hater win.

re: #82 karmic_inquisitor

I knew a guy who was a deeply nationalistic Alsatian. Alsace was swallowed a long time ago, as France and Germany played footsie with it. He wanted to start an armed insurrection.

Some habits die hard.

Ha. And the Euro elites wonder why the EU meets with such resistance.

re: #55 WriterMom

"They made a tacit agreement-no stopping the flow of oil, if you become completely pro-Palestinian and just channel your anti-semitic roots into anti "Zionism" and anti-Israel behaviour. This suited Europe just fine."

Ah, the old Zionism rube. Got it. Well stated and thanks!

re: #76 WriterMom

Fool me once, ....

re: #87 victor_yugo

If "young" means "staring down both barrels of the mid-life crisis", then yes.

I got my midlife crisis out of the way when I was 32. Now I'm free to enjoy the middle years.

re: #88 Maine's Michael

May the least worst Jew hater win.

Oy to the Vey!

re: #80 ploome hineni

yes, the muslims

So there is no such thing as a Serbian fascist.

Got it.

/

re: #36 JSK1121

WHO IS THE F-BOMB?

Fjordman, I think.

Stormfront is very supportive of the Cologne conference.

re: #92 Silhouette

"Mid-life crisis" is just another word for "a convenient excuse to be an immature, selfish brat."

re: #81 Spider Mensch

Priceless!

re: #68 Sharmuta

You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day a fascist is still a fascist.

How fitting, considering Obama is most decidedly a liberal fascist.

Fascists exist everywhere. And then that's not always associated with racism and ethnocentrism. However, fascism is very prone to the ethnocentrism as observed in Naziism. Prone to, but not always ethnocentric. A contrast would be the Italian Fascists up until 1938. However, ethnocentric or not, fascism always involves a loss of liberty for the general populace.

And yes, Ploome, you can have Serbian fascists. They do exist.

re: #98 Killgore Trout

Stormfront is very supportive of the Cologne conference.

Why am I not suprised.

re: #99 victor_yugo

"Mid-life crisis" is just another word for "a convenient excuse to be an immature, selfish brat."

All I did was buy a red sports car because I got my first gray hair! Dang, now I feel all guilty.

;-)

But concerning what started the whole conversation, my grandfathers were too old for WWII. But my father too young. Still, it was fought by my uncles and father-in-law, so that puts me in the 1st generation past WWII, not the second.

re: #66 lifeofthemind

Give me more, please. I love it when Lucifer gets his due.

So.... Take the Europeans. We won't bother with nationalities, so let's just assume them to be generic Europeans.

I'm curious.........

Who here will be happy if they start to get massacred?

re: #97 ploome hineni

see what is happening in our own country

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

That doesn't make me hopeful for our future. Sometimes I feels like our elections are merely arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

re: #109 wishbone

So.... Take the Europeans. We won't bother with nationalities, so let's just assume them to be generic Europeans.

I'm curious.........

Who here will be happy if they start to get massacred?

No one. But what's your point?

re: #100 ploome hineni

under no circumstance

will I ever.....support any muslim....in anything
/got it?

everything muslim, wants to destroy everything that is MY heritage, culture, people, values

Nice nationalist bullshit there.

Here is a clue for you.

We all descend from one tribe. One. Every fucking one of us. Evolutionists and Creationists agree on this, just not on the time and place.

Your "heritage, culture, people, values" etc are actually amorphous. The idea that these things can be considered constant and unchanging is the very idea that seeds ethnic warfare. THAT is why Europe has been a source of ethnic warfare for so long. And yes, large swaths in the middle east thinks the same way.

It is all bullshit.

Show me where God created Serbia and Serbians separate from all that came before. We all come from one tribe.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

re: #107 ploome hineni

so what?

Islam is a priori fascist....cannot NOT BE fascist

Islam may pre-date the term "fascism", but when practised as it is in Whabbism, it is very much fascist. It controls everything a person does.

We also had our fascists in the US who pre-dated the term "fascist". Wilson and his Progressives were very much what the later fascists would be in Italy. In fact, Il Duce rather admired Wilson.

re: #116 ploome hineni

writing FUCK does not make any point, except expose the one on your head

you must be achmed.........thats what all the muslims say

.......................................g aze at your karma

Impressive.

"Србија до Токија"

/but there are no fascists in Serbia.

re: #113 karmic_inquisitor

Nice nationalist bullshit there.

Here is a clue for you.

We all descend from one tribe. One. Every fucking one of us. Evolutionists and Creationists agree on this, just not on the time and place.

Your "heritage, culture, people, values" etc are actually amorphous. The idea that these things can be considered constant and unchanging is the very idea that seeds ethnic warfare. THAT is why Europe has been a source of ethnic warfare for so long. And yes, large swaths in the middle east thinks the same way.

It is all bullshit.

Show me where God created Serbia and Serbians separate from all that came before. We all come from one tribe.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Not sure what point you are trying to make/

That we are all human? That we all have mothers? That we are all descended from the same ooze seeded by big headed aliens?

Culture counts. Far more than biology.

All cultures are not equal.

There has been just as much, or more, ethnic warfare in the non-European world as there has been in Europe. You just never learned about the thousands of years of cannibalism and headshrinking in Borneo. Whoever set up our curricula decided the comings and goings and killings and wars of the world outside of Western Asia and Europe were simply unimportant.

re: #118 ploome hineni

of course, we are just like them

/how deeply ingrained is this obsession to be even handed

THEY ARE EVIL we are not

get it?

Never said we are just like them, dip. You failed to read what I had written, and then proceeded to claim I said we and the Islamists are alike. Knock it off with your air of moral superiority, Ploome.

re: #8 JSK1121

re: #55 WriterMom

France, in my estimate will become the first European Muslim country (officially). It already has a Muslim population in the double digits.

France, in my estimate will be the first European nation to mass export and/or intern its Muslim population to retain its cultural integrity.

It is only a matter of time before the Eurofascists get into power.

Why people use the cause of anti-extremism to promote their own stupidity I'll never know!

re: #99 victor_yugo

"Mid-life crisis" is just another word for "a convenient excuse to be an immature, selfish brat."

Life is best enjoyed by being comfortable in your own skin - age is barely relevant.

re: #122 Scion9

re: #55 WriterMom

France, in my estimate will be the first European nation to mass export and/or intern its Muslim population to retain its cultural integrity.

It is only a matter of time before the Eurofascists get into power.

They will try, anyway . . .

re: #76 WriterMom

They will still expect you (America) to bail them out, though.

I don't think that's going to happen this time. I know that I, as an American, am tired of our "allies" folding on us, spitting on us, the way Old Europe has done, well, all my life. They've dug their hole, now that they're up to their ass in alligators it's tough shit. No blood for brie!

re: #111 ploome hineni

Your question in response, has no bearing on the original question Ploome.

re: #112 Sharmuta

You answer for everyone? My point was made clear: Curiosity.

re: #40 JohnAdams

Serious question: What is Europe's beef with the Jews? I can see the ancient feud tied with Christianity and perhaps their fear of Jewish intellectual ties to early socialism, but Europe now is no more Christian than Michael Moore. And they utterly worship the Great Socialist Teet. So where's the problem?

This is a question that has fascinated me for a long time. Here's my take, for what its worth:

After Rome fell, the influence of the Roman Catholic Church spread throughout the West, displacing tribal religions and customs. Eventually, everyone was expected if not required to subscribe to its belief system, and the vast majority did willingly out of fear of damnation. Those whose beliefs couldn't be reconciled with church doctrine were considered heretics, and the full force of the state was brought to bear against them. Except for occasional spasms of heretic thought, the catholics had an essential monopoly on religious doctrine until the rise of Lutheranism in the 15th century.

The only group that was outside this system was the Jews. Obviously, they subscribed to a completely separate system of beliefs. They lived among Christians but typically did not assimilate. (They often could live only in designated areas, which came to known as ghettoes.) As the only group excused from Christian orthodoxy, they were not treated as heretics at all. They were usually tolerated, in part because they tended to be the pillars of the local banking system. The Jews specialized in moneylending for two reasons.

First, Jews had no religious proscription against charging Christians interest. Christianity considered "usury" -- the charging of any interest -- to be a sin (as muslims do today). Second, Jews were usually prohibited from owning property, which served to concentrate them in moneylending and mercantile pursuits.

Being visibly present in an overwhelmingly Christian society, being the only group that openly rejected the dominant faith, and being a group seen as controlling access to money, was a deadly combination. As aliens who rejected Christ, Jewish populations were always the first to be blamed for calamities, natural or man-made. The plague was blamed on them, as well as everything from wars to bad weather. The Roman Catholic Church fanned the flames by officially blaming them for the crucifixion, although some popes were notably tolerant of Jews. Over time Jew hatred became an ingrained part of European culture, outlasting even the decline of Christianity and catholicism there.

It's interesting that in World War II the Germans were hated in the non-Germanic countries that they occupied. The one area of cooperation that the occupiers could usually find with the occupied was the willingness of the victims of occupation to round up their Jews for the Germans.

I see the postwar period as only a brief hiatus in the long tradition of European anti-Semitism. The crimes of the Nazis shamed and shocked everyone into some degree of restraint. That restraint is disappearing now as anti-Semitism forces its way back into the mainstream, at least among the Left and the extreme Right.

re: #122 Scion9

France, in my estimate will be the first European nation to mass export and/or intern its Muslim population to retain its cultural integrity.

Every country seems to love something about itself. (For the US, I think it is the Constitution. Other countries just don't get how giddy we are over it). For Ireland, the beauty of the land. For German, at least recently, their race.

But for France, it DOES seem to be their culture that inspires arrogance. "We have museums and fashion and perfume and wine and cooking and philosophers." A country that passed laws requiring a certain percentage of TV and movies be "French" might very well act to preserve the Frenchness of their culture.

re: #120 Maine's Michael

Not sure what point you are trying to make/

That we are all human? That we all have mothers? That we are all descended from the same ooze seeded by big headed aliens?

Culture counts. Far more than biology.

All cultures are not equal.

There has been just as much, or more, ethnic warfare in the non-European world as there has been in Europe. You just never learned about the thousands of years of cannibalism and headshrinking in Borneo. Whoever set up our curricula decided the comings and goings and killings and wars of the world outside of Western Asia and Europe were simply unimportant.

The point I made is that culture / heritage is not static.

Nationalists will always fall back on "their culture" as the rightful thing that they are entitled to assert on others.

I never said that all cultures are equal. Far from it. I am not a multiculturalist. But I don't buy the whole vicitimization routine that nationalists go through (especially Serbian nationalists) to justify their hatred of others.

Serbians used their "rights" to "greater Serbia" to justify genocide, and then pander to anti-islamist sentiment to justify it.

Sorry - but Serbian culture is no more defensible on the basis that "it has always been" any more than arab culture or persian culture.

Serbian culture can be judged based on what it has brought upon itself recently. And, wouldn't you know, it is changing as a result.

A Serbian has no more of a right to kill someone because his culture justifies it any more than a Muslim has a right to kill someone because he is an infidel.

Which goes back to the whole topic of this thread - fascism can't be justified regardless of who the fascists enemy is.

re: #129 Silhouette

The French are vicious little bastards. As much as people mock them they can pull some cold shit when it's down to the preservation of France.

re: #127 wishbone

Your question was crap. Is that some sort of logical fallacy? If we don't support the fascists and nazis that means we support the massacre of the europeans?

And yes- I feel fairly confident LGFers would not celebrate the europeans being massacred by the islamists enough to say so.

re: #17 CheDub

Unfortunately it appears most people in Europe would be completely lost if the government wasn't there to do everything for them.

I agree with this. I'm from Spain, and people have grown used to rely on the government only. And the current government has introduced a new subject for middle school and high school students called "Education for Citizenship" that will educate several generations in the benefits of having your life controlled by the Big Brother. Scary. Fight it and you are labeled a fascist.

And so what happens when a threat emerges like that of radicl Islam? Either they close their eyes and try to ignore the problem or allow Fascists to take the issue and say "give us complete control and we'll handle it" and a significant portion of the population blindly follows them. From my perspective tt just seems to be one end of the pendulum or the other.

True. Or they could just support stupid appeasement ideas like the "Alliance of Civilizations". More info in this link.

re: #130 ploome hineni

Of course, Ploome, you'll now impress us all by posting a link proving that I have ever expressed any such notion.

I have a little time to spare....... Don't rush.

re: #128 Cicero05

Great analysis.

re: #131 karmic_inquisitor

Thank you. That was good.

I think you're correct that the Serbians were fascists under Milosevic, and have of late been trying to jump on the anti-islamic bandwagon with a 'see? we were right all along!' argument.

Having said that, the kosovars are bad news.

Sometimes, both sides stink.

Ploome, you know who's gonna get blamed for the black Jesus losing the election, dontcha?

Even though Jews have been the most idiotic supporters of Him i the media . . .

We just can't win . . . .

We can't help killing the Sons of Light, can we?

re: #133 Sharmuta

The question had nothing of logic about it at all. It was simply a question and a valid one at that, seeing as how people seem all too happy to state that Europe is about to 'get what's coming to it' or some variant thereof......... I get the feeling that they're just as happy to get the popcorn out and enjoy the bloodfest.

re: #137 ploome hineni

Yes, qualifying one's statements can be a bit bothersome, can't it Ploome?

re: #141 ploome hineni

There's a town called St. Chrysostome in Quebec.

From now on, I will spit out the window every time I drive by.

Haha! Rush just repeated the bleak Hurricane advisory to leave Galveston Island or "Face Death" from Storm Surge. Then Rush followed up with the Question? "Where is Obama, Isn't supposed to be able to lower the waters or does he have to be President first to do that?"

re: #147 ploome hineni

foes of grace, enemies of their fathers' faith, advocates of the Devil, brood of vipers, slanderers, scoffers, men whose minds are in darkness, leaven of the Pharisees, assembly of demons, sinners, wicked men, stoners, and haters of righteousness."

In my case, I would have to add 'over-toaster of bagels'.

re: #142 wishbone

The question had nothing of logic about it at all. It was simply a question and a valid one at that, seeing as how people seem all too happy to state that Europe is about to 'get what's coming to it' or some variant thereof......... I get the feeling that they're just as happy to get the popcorn out and enjoy the bloodfest.

Well then- I guess we're even since many here feel that europe doesn't give a rat's ass about America either. Have fun wallowing in your self-made pity party, or better yet, make some tea and invite the BNP over. I'm sure they'll solve all your problems for you.

Strange explanation from Spencer, because that post he removed was signed under his name. Is this like Lew Rockwell writing the Ron Paul Newsletter? or is Spencer lying? In any case, signing someone else's blog contributions as "Robert" constitutes plagiarism.

In any case, it sounds like he is afraid of people discovering his motives:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It's as if he tests the waters, see how far he can push until eyebrows are raised, and then he furiously back-paddles. For someone so committed against Euro Fascism, strange that he would have a defense witness in Milosevic's trial in Hague in JihadWatch's board of directors.

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Robert Spencer’s Connections: The James Jatras File:
[Link: kejda.net...]

Don't expect JihadWatch to be LGF or vice versa. As long as both are headed in the same general direction they can benefit from each other. Robert Spencer has his focus and and puts his even handed scholar ship behind it.

re: #45 ploome hineni

IF the Serbs can be called fascists, and I do NOT agree
the Serbs have been abandoned by Christian Europe who support the Balkan muslims,
which muslims supported and fought WITH THE NAZIS
and NOW, are continuing the slaughter and displacement of Serbs
with COMPLICIT Europe
the situation is obscene

These are the disgusting rantings of a religious supremacist. I suppose Ploomie thinks Michael Totten's Balkan articles were lies to dupe "Christian Europeans."

re: #1 buzzsawmonkey

Short form: conference held in Cologne, but still stinks.

The calamity of the fascists in Europe and communists in the FSR/Asia have far far outstripped the jihadis in scope and long term effect... so to organize in a way that promotes either of those ways of life will lead to a much bigger disaster than fighting the jihadis (and attempts to institute sharia law) as we go.

Yikes. "FSU"re: #154 Sunlight

re: #60 ploome hineni

Charlie Gibson accused Gov Palin of hubris when she accepted the VP nomination and didn't hesitate. Apparently he thinks he is one of the Gods of the MSM Pantheon.

It's a term that has always confused me and never stuck. I need to give it a little more attention.

re: #155 ploome hineni

so Milosevic is not entitled to a witness in his defense?

what a load of crap...

So these Euro Fascists are not entitled to a spirited defense?

Why sure they are!

Spencer gave it to them, signing his post with his real name, and then backed off when he realized he was disgracing himself...

What a load of crap indeed!

re: #153 mph

Totten writes as an anthropologist with an increasing curiosity about dangerous parts of the world where normal people fear to tread. I think politically he wants a moderate Islam to succeed somewhere and set an example. He is boots on the ground.

re: #158 ploome hineni

I don;t understand what you mean by that

islam through jihad taking over more than 1/5 of the world population, and huge land mass, is less calamitous than fascism?

In terms of death toll, intimidated people, etc. yes I would say the nazis and communists have been more calamitous than islam. Which would be a good reason not to revive the nazis or communists in the fight with the jihadis.

re: #142 wishbone

You have to understand that many Americans are deeply frustrated by this rift between our political ideologies, in particular our Jeffersonian Creed that we are founded upon and the current crop of European socialist leadership that Europeans themselves seem to simultaneously hate, and want Americans to adopt.

Scorn is heaped upon us on a daily basis by European press and it is hardly reciprocated by our own media that fawns over European Socialism. I've had enough of it personally, to my face, in and around the highly trafficked by Europeans DC-Metro area.

No Americans that I know would take joy over a return of true fascism and war to Europe. I find it unlikely that very many Americans, and especially not those here, would cheer on bloodshed of free people. I know many Americans that would sign up to be sent over the Atlantic to fight in Europe to keep Europeans free; and I know many Americans that still see Europe as the forebears of America and feel very strongly and favorably about Europe and wouldn't stand by as it burned.

Tell me, truthfully, are the sentiments the same on the other side of the ocean? I see nothing favorable coming from Europeans from media, news, message boards, at airports and train stations inside America from Europeans; and I've met many more that gleefully fantasized about our destruction and deaths than those that were even ambivalent about our plight. I've met as many Europeans that clap in praise of 9/11 as I have Arabs and Pakistanis; because America is finally being taken down a notch.

However, I'd say it is accurate that if a pan-European war did break out, that Europeans in general shouldn't be relying upon Americans. I'm not happy about it, but I do feel that Europe is going to reap the whirlwind, and I don't mean in a cosmic, religious sense.

I feel that the vast majority of the European political establishment has abandoned the precepts of Individualism in favor of Collectivism. If you have a mainstream that does not believe in individual liberty, or natural, unalienable rights on your Left, and Fascists on your Right, which group of rights-denying Collectivists is our government supposed to side with? The richest. most powerful, and most likely one to win probably. In WWII that wouldn't have been the Allies.

In WWII we were not really forced to side between Italy and Germany. In any other European conflict, we would certainly be forced to choose sides with some repugnant regime that has a political philosophy that is contradictory to the American creed.

There would certainly be the sentiment that no matter what we do, no matter how much treasure or blood we spend, that Europe will always side against us ideologically. The aftermath of the Cold War looks like we are shaping up to see a Non-Democratic Communist European Union. After we Americans were used to aid in the defense of much of Europe from Russia for decades, on purely ideological grounds, we find that we were just pawns in a sick continuation of the Great Game, which is predicated upon ethnicity and nationalism rather than ideology. Europe in the 21st century seems just fine with Communism, as long as those dirty, drunken Russians aren't stinking it up.

And sorry, it isn't just the various governments, it is a very strong, pro-Collectivist sentiment among European people. Some countries more than others, but it is still widespread.

re: #163 ploome hineni

no such thing as moderate islam

let him experiment with moderate islam in Turkey

see what's happeneing there

Have you read Michael's articles? He does really good work. A farther left (e.g., soft on bully tactics and the passivity of other citizens just watching) interpretation in some articles (e.g., Lebanon), but I can live with that because he does show some reality on the ground. And he talks to very interesting people. He has found some towns that would give hope in places you wouldn't think.

re: #163 ploome hineni

I think these big government entities in Europe like the EU get in the way of working out their integration issues. I am not sure how wise it is, but I am leaning towards favoring the balkanization of Europe along the lines of grievances that exist. And then see if we can get some form of agreement going on. Track record of history though leans towards this creating wars and ethnic cleansing as greed can't be controlled across borders. Maybe a federation of mini states. 1000 flags in Old Europe.

re: #164 Sunlight

In terms of death toll, intimidated people, etc. yes I would say the nazis and communists have been more calamitous than islam. Which would be a good reason not to revive the nazis or communists in the fight with the jihadis.

You are woefully misinformed about history if you think that, since Karl Marx, that Nazis and Communists have done more in the way of human damage, through enslavement, injustice and death than the various Muslim entities have since Mohammed.

The Mughal's in India alone far outstrip Nazis and Communists combined, before you even start looking at the still ongoing to this day exportation of slaves to the Arabian peninsula from Africa, Asia and Europe or the Ottomans, the list goes on.

I would never side with Fascists of any stripe as they are antithetical to my beliefs, but stating that the suffering caused in the 20th century alone by various subsets of a particular political ideology can be compared to the genocide, apartheid and slavery of the Imperial Mughal alone, is the same kind of pseudo-historical rambling that equates fourteen centuries of Jihad with two centuries of Crusades.

I still think Spencer is, for the most part, a demagogue, this post of his clearly reveals it (the image aptly named "finde den fehler.jpg", i.e. "find the error.jpg"), just fueling nationalistic sentiments. He has his knowledge of the enemy's ideology down, but apart from tactical considerations, there is little acknowledgement of the dangerous spirits he is summoning to fight it. Daniel Pipes has much more foresight, as revealed in this article.

re: #171 000G

I would say he is the opposite of a demagogue.

re: #171 000G

I still think Spencer is, for the most part, a demagogue, this post of his clearly reveals it (the image aptly named "finde den fehler.jpg", i.e. "find the error.jpg"), just fueling nationalistic sentiments. He has his knowledge of the enemy's ideology down, but apart from tactical considerations, there is little acknowledgement of the dangerous spirits he is summoning to fight it. Daniel Pipes has much more foresight, as revealed in this article.

I don't think that this particular post shows anything of the sort. I don't agree with all of his conclusions, but given that he is running a site that is specifically reporting Jihad related stories, he is likely going to see things that potentially are not there because he is looking for the Jihad.

re: #178 ploome hineni

000G
The G stands for Germany, of which I am a citizen for the time being.

or until the ummah takes over?

Ploome - I would have guessed. Maybe move to Australia or the U.S. for a while... Germany and the rest of the Euros have got to figure out how to do this without industrial removal of humans. If I were Euro, I would start by clamoring for enforcement of basic vandalism and assault laws. When I lived in Germany, the entire Israeli Olympic team was slaughtered and the Germans did NOTHING. I don't know what to tell you. If they just won't, I'd live somewhere else.

Just in case anyone doesn't know:

"medaura," Kejda Gjermani, is an inveterate and consistent liar, and a smear artist.

1. She says: "Strange explanation from Spencer, because that post he removed was signed under his name. Is this like Lew Rockwell writing the Ron Paul Newsletter? or is Spencer lying? In any case, signing someone else's blog contributions as "Robert" constitutes plagiarism."

Actually, no. The post in question was written by Raymond Ibrahim. I have discussed it with Raymond, who was not aware of the affiliations of the people involved when he posted it, and he was fine with my taking it down.

2. James Jatras stated explicitly in his testimony re Milosevic that he could not and would not speak about Milo's record of governance -- i.e., the genocide. He was testifying about other matters. But K.G. doesn't tell you that, because she wishes you to think that Jatras was defending genocide, and that Jatras and I are just fine with genocide.

3. In a similar vein, her husband Michael Hussey (mph) as well as Kejda Gjermani have previously charged that I scolded Hussey at Jihad Watch for objecting to a comment that was praising Milosevic. This might be damning, except it is another lie. The comment in question was not praising Milosevic at all. You can see for yourself here.

These three points are enough to establish that this "medaura" person is completely untrustworthy as to the basic facts -- and her judgments are completely off base. For the record, again: contrary to the repeated smears of medaura, mph, killgore trout, etc., here at Little Green Footballs, I am not a supporter of Serbian genocide. I oppose jihadism in Kosovo. That is all.

re: #139 Maine's Michael

Thank you. That was good.

I think you're correct that the Serbians were fascists under Milosevic, and have of late been trying to jump on the anti-islamic bandwagon with a 'see? we were right all along!' argument.

Having said that, the kosovars are bad news.

Sometimes, both sides stink.

We are agreed.

re: #27 JSK1121

Sorry, didn't mean to 'down' your comment, just to neutralize my previous 'up'. Couldn't that be implemented, Charles?

re: #181 ploome hineni

the older I get the more fatalistic I become

there must be some reason the JEws have not disappeared, in fact are experience a renaissance in all aspects of human endeavor

every single empire and kingdom that hated us and hurt us, has vanished and/or is in corrupt chaos

Jews are hated because Judiasm teaches responsibility and moderation and to struggle to be holy

most people just want to party, and do it cause it feels good

I have no problem with people who just want to party, as long as they don't kill anyone DWI in their cars or neglect their children or become violent wackos... Judaism provides a framework that results in a fabulous (unexpected) life... if you have the energy, maybe go live in Israel for a while. It's exciting, fun, and can give any Jewish person any level of Jewish life they could imagine.

re: #182 Robert Spencer

Robert - Have you read Michael Totten's blog entries re Serbia, Kosovo, Georgia, Azerbijan, etc.? They're interesting.

re: #182 Robert Spencer

"medaura," Kejda Gjermani, is an inveterate and consistent liar, and a smear artist.

1. She says: "Strange explanation from Spencer, because that post he removed was signed under his name. Is this like Lew Rockwell writing the Ron Paul Newsletter? or is Spencer lying? In any case, signing someone else's blog contributions as "Robert" constitutes plagiarism."

Actually, no. The post in question was written by Raymond Ibrahim. I have discussed it with Raymond, who was not aware of the affiliations of the people involved when he posted it, and he was fine with my taking it down.

2. James Jatras stated explicitly in his testimony re Milosevic that he could not and would not speak about Milo's record of governance -- i.e., the genocide. He was testifying about other matters. But K.G. doesn't tell you that, because she wishes you to think that Jatras was defending genocide, and that Jatras and I are just fine with genocide.

3. In a similar vein, her husband Michael Hussey (mph) as well as Kejda Gjermani have previously charged that I scolded Hussey at Jihad Watch for objecting to a comment that was praising Milosevic. This might be damning, except it is another lie. The comment in question was not praising Milosevic at all. You can see for yourself here.

These three points are enough to establish that this "medaura" person is completely untrustworthy as to the basic facts -- and her judgments are completely off base. For the record, again: contrary to the repeated smears of medaura, mph, killgore trout, etc., here at Little Green Footballs, I am not a supporter of Serbian genocide. I oppose jihadism in Kosovo. That is all.

Oversensitive much, Mr. Spencer?

1) Whoever wrote the post, signed it "Robert". I saw that, perhaps Charles saw it too, and others must have seen it as well. Now that you vanished the post down the memory hole, of course, you can cry foul all you want. Under what name/pseudonym does Ibrahim operate in your site?

2) Despite his disclaimer-ridden excuse for his disgraceful appearance in Milo's trial, Mr. Jatras has made numerous judgments regarding Milosevic's actions. "K. G", me --that is-- had provided the link to the entire transcript of Mr. Jatras' testimony, so that anyone inclined, can cross-reference his mitigating claims today parroted here by Spencer, to what he actually said in the Hague. One particular thing he did say, as verified by the transcript, is that the Racak massacre was a "trigger", a.k.a an inside job, to spur the NATO offense. Jatras and your other buddy Sjrde Trifkovic, have also gone on record claiming that Srebrenica was a hoax. May I ask, is Trifkovic also on your board of advisers?

3) You linked to your entire post! How disingenuous! Why not link to the specific comment made? Do you expect people to read the entire thread to figure out what happened, or do you just think they will take you on your word?

Here is the comment "in question":
[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

"Jatras was also a defense witness in the Hague trial of Milosevic. ...
despite his lawerly disclaimers to the contrary, [Jatras] nevertheless attempted to portray Milosevic as a victim of an international conspiracy, and to cast doubts on the entire scale and nature of his regime's actions."
-MPH
Posted by: popcontest
[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Wow, I'm liking Jatras more and more!

So this commenter is liking Jatras more and more for casting doubts on the entire scale and nature of his regime's operations, and for making him sound as the victim of an international ploy. He concedes that it's a good thing to cast doubts on the nature and scale of Milo's regimes operations: i.e genocide.

Spencer has nothing to say to this fine fellow. He only attacks Michael for going after him.

Also, Robert, I was going to let you go off the hook with the understanding that the best treatment for demagogic kooks like yourself is obscurity. But you pissed me off with your childish smears reeking of fabricated "indignation". I have plenty of material on some more associates of yours and your annoying arrogance just convinced me of publishing what I have.

Wait for it, then come smear me here as a liar if you dare.

re: #189 mph

This supremacist victimology is disgraceful....in fact, it is exact wrong approach to defeating islamic terrorism.

What is most disgusting....you almost sound like you want Jewish people to be wiped out...to prove you were right.

Jews just want to be left alone to attain the achievement Jewish culture fosters. But cultural envy prevents many cultures from doing that. The Russians now want to team up with Israel on nanotechnology development because, say the Russians, so many Israelis are Russian speakers. But what a joke... there are so many Russian speakers in Israel because Russia ran off their Jewish citizens and they just happened to be lots of Russia's top scientists. So now the Russians will be like a dog with his teeth clamped on your socks dragging you down as they try to get access to these scientists achievements and provide the slaughterers' tools to Israel's neighbors to finish them off. Russia is pathetic.

meduara

You are a liar.

I have taken down the post, because I do not approve of the conference, but here is a Google Cache of the page:

"Posted by Raymond."

Whoops!

I've taken a screen capture, so that I will have the proof if you continue to spread your lies.

I'm disingenuous by not posting a link to the comments in question? Fine. Here they are:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

To say that Milo was a victim of an international conspiracy is not to praise him. Maybe you don't know the difference, but I do. And I think you do also.

In any case, do click on the Google Cache link above.

You have lied many, many other times, in your "expose" of Jatras and me (and I know who is feeding you information now -- another inveterate liar), but now that we have established what you are, we are just haggling over the price.

One last thing, Robert:

You seem to get tipped off immediately whenever anyone names you on LGF. Couldn't it be that, well, someone tipped you off that Charles was not happy with your coverage of the Euro-Fascist convergence in Cologne, and then you pulled down the post?

I'm surprised that it took you so long to notice what was written on your own blog and to correct it. Been weighing in options this whole time and concluded that it's best to flip flop?

Indeed...

medaura

Indeed -- as I explained earlier, I didn't see it until this morning, when someone called my attention to Charles' linking it.

It is useless to warn you, of course, but the person you're dealing with is quite an outlandish and imaginative liar, and once he is exposed again, you may wish you hadn't associated yourself with him. On the other hand, given your own record of dishonesty, as proven above, you probably won't care.

medaura:

Another conceptual problem with your charge that I supported this conference until Charles called my attention to it is the fact that we have been on record opposing LePen and the FPO (both of which will be at this conference) for years now. All you have to do is to a search or two at JW and you'll see that. But of course, it wouldn't fit your "Spencer is secretly a fascist" smear.

But when the facts don't fit, so much worse for the facts! Just make it up! You're good at it!

re: #182 Robert Spencer

Just in case anyone doesn't know:

"medaura," Kejda Gjermani, is an inveterate and consistent liar, and a smear artist.

1. She says: "Strange explanation from Spencer, because that post he removed was signed under his name. Is this like Lew Rockwell writing the Ron Paul Newsletter? or is Spencer lying? In any case, signing someone else's blog contributions as "Robert" constitutes plagiarism."

Actually, no. The post in question was written by Raymond Ibrahim. I have discussed it with Raymond, who was not aware of the affiliations of the people involved when he posted it, and he was fine with my taking it down.

2. James Jatras stated explicitly in his testimony re Milosevic that he could not and would not speak about Milo's record of governance -- i.e., the genocide. He was testifying about other matters. But K.G. doesn't tell you that, because she wishes you to think that Jatras was defending genocide, and that Jatras and I are just fine with genocide.

3. In a similar vein, her husband Michael Hussey (mph) as well as Kejda Gjermani have previously charged that I scolded Hussey at Jihad Watch for objecting to a comment that was praising Milosevic. This might be damning, except it is another lie. The comment in question was not praising Milosevic at all. You can see for yourself here.

These three points are enough to establish that this "medaura" person is completely untrustworthy as to the basic facts -- and her judgments are completely off base. For the record, again: contrary to the repeated smears of medaura, mph, killgore trout, etc., here at Little Green Footballs, I am not a supporter of Serbian genocide. I oppose jihadism in Kosovo. That is all.

thank you robert,
and thank you for your fearless dedication to enlighten the free world abt. the dangers of islam.
you , sir, are greatly appreciated.

re: #193 Robert Spencer

The conspiracy thickens?

Someone is feeding me information? Some other liar who is out there to get you? The person you allude to (you are very predictable in how maliciously you read into others' comments) has not been feeding me jack shit. He actually advised me more than once not to bother with you, because he considers you and Jatras so marginal as to not even be deserving of being debunked or exposed. He had never communicated with me until after I ever posted my report based on individual research, and it was I who initiated the communication. How self-important of you to assume that so many people bother to get involved in shining a spotlight on your disgraceful associations!

As for the Google cache, I know what I saw, and I'm pretty sure I saw "Robert". It is possible for you to edit your post, and then pull it off. I wonder why you even thought to produce screen shots. Did you know you would be accused of authoring the post by those who saw the original stamp under your name?

Why such a long time lag anyway between the original post and its vanishing down the memory hole?

As for your policing of your comments section, you are selectively absorbing what that specific commenter is in support of. He is not merely sympathetic to someone who has implicated Milosevic as a victim of an international ploy (which Milosevic could CONCEIVABLY but not at all plausibly be, while at the same time having committed genocide) but he also applauds Jatras for casting doubts on the entire scale and nature of Milosevic's regime's actions.

He is not saying "I like Jatras and he was not supporting Milosevic's actions". He is implicitly saying that he likes Jatras more and more BECAUSE he tried to cast doubt on the validity of the accusations of genocide which Milosevic was facing.

As thus, he is not "praising" Milosevic (don't put words into my husband's mouth) but he is clearly supporting it.

Even your new selective quotation of comments is deceiving. Try:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

How very cordial...

I don't understand why you want to bring more attention to this, because your conduct is simply disgraceful in that thread.

Also, you keep hysterically screeching that I am a "liar". Mind to factually challenge one single claim I have made in my expose of Jatras and yourself?

...thought so.

re: #170 ploome hineni

Liberal Christians are dead wrong about Israel, and many other things. In much of Christianity anti-semitism is dead, though.

re: #185 ploome hineni

every time she appears on a thread there is discord and problems.
even if she has a positive statement it comes off as hostile w/ her little needle teeth gnashing.

medaura

As for the Google cache, I know what I saw, and I'm pretty sure I saw "Robert". It is possible for you to edit your post, and then pull it off. I wonder why you even thought to produce screen shots. Did you know you would be accused of authoring the post by those who saw the original stamp under your name?

You're a very imaginative liar, but you're flailing. The post was written by Raymond Ibrahim. I did not see it, as the whole point of having other people write at the site is to give me some time away, and I don't always read their posts when I come back.

The Google Cache header says, you'll note, "It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Sep 4, 2008 21:53:52 GMT." Raymond posted it at 11:44 AM Eastern on that same day. That's a difference of a matter of hours.

Why the long time lag? Charles posted a link to it on Sept. 8 (when it still clearly said, as it always did, "Posted by Raymond.:" I didn't see that either. Then this morning someone sent me a link to it, and I acted. That's all there is to it, but you will continue to spin your conspiracies.

You're a very imaginative liar, but you're flailing Part II:

As thus, he is not "praising" Milosevic (don't put words into my husband's mouth) but he is clearly supporting it.

So apparently you're claiming that your husband Michael Hussey did not say that the commenter was praising Milosevic? That I am putting words in Hussey's mouth when I say that that is what he said? Very well. Let's look at your husband's comment:

In this thread alone, you have a commenter openly praising Slobodan Milosevic.

Whoops again!

You are a liar, and your source is a liar, and he knows that I have a great deal more information on his lies -- if he wants to push this.

re: #200 nyc redneck

However, I like it when Charles puts up Euro threads. I think it is important and I always learn things I didn't know and that it seems I should.

re: #202 Sunlight

However, I like it when Charles puts up Euro threads. I think it is important and I always learn things I didn't know and that it seems I should.

i agree, it's an area of the world that changes so quickly.

All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little Cologne anti-Islamisation Meeting.

re: #203 nyc redneck

i agree, it's an area of the world that changes so quickly.

Actually, the thing that alarms me is not that it changes quickly, but that it never changes. It's just smoothed out after WWII, with telltale signs in the interim years and now becoming clear as their old selves again since they formed the unelected EU system.

re: #205 Sunlight

Actually, the thing that alarms me is not that it changes quickly, but that it never changes. It's just smoothed out after WWII, with telltale signs in the interim years and now becoming clear as their old selves again since they formed the unelected EU system.

well, i'll say this, the borders sure snake around at lightening speed.
eastern europe is a place i've never been interested in.
however, i do know what's going on there is important.

I have to correct the record on one thing: I never saw Robert's name on that post about the Cologne meeting. I always knew it was written by someone else, and I never said Robert had written it. I posted the link in a comment with nothing else, just because I saw the post at Jihad Watch and it was relevant to the topic.

I did not mean to say or imply that Robert was supporting the meeting.

Cologne, gah, very hostile place. I had one of those cliche' moments while passing through there. When boarding a train the conductor snapped to and loudly demanded, "PASSPORT!" A knowing smirk passed over his face as he noted my Jewish name.Very creepy.

re: #193 Robert Spencer

meduara

You are a liar.

I have taken down the post, because I do not approve of the conference, but here is a Google Cache of the page:

"Posted by Raymond."

Whoops!

I've taken a screen capture, so that I will have the proof if you continue to spread your lies.

I'm disingenuous by not posting a link to the comments in question? Fine. Here they are:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

To say that Milo was a victim of an international conspiracy is not to praise him. Maybe you don't know the difference, but I do. And I think you do also.

In any case, do click on the Google Cache link above.

You have lied many, many other times, in your "expose" of Jatras and me (and I know who is feeding you information now -- another inveterate liar), but now that we have established what you are, we are just haggling over the price.

Now this is rich, coming from the same person that welcomes an inveterate white-trash-euro-nazi-über-alles-sieg-heil-SO B like Fjordman to post at his blog... What company you keep, Bobby! Serbonazis to the left, Eurofascists to the right. Stuck in the middle, aren't you?

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Why should Barack Obama disassociate himself from Ayers and Wright when you have Jatras and Fjordman getting the red-carpet treatment over at Jihad Watch?

i think i'll go take a nap.

re: #210 nyc redneck

i think i'll go take a nap.

Very good idea.

re: #211 Sunlight

Very good idea.

LOL,

re: #210 nyc redneck

i think i'll go take a nap.

Sleep well...;>)

re: #196 Robert Spencer

medaura:

Another conceptual problem with your charge that I supported this conference until Charles called my attention to it is the fact that we have been on record opposing LePen and the FPO (both of which will be at this conference) for years now. All you have to do is to a search or two at JW and you'll see that. But of course, it wouldn't fit your "Spencer is secretly a fascist" smear.

But when the facts don't fit, so much worse for the facts! Just make it up! You're good at it!

Then why do you let an out and out racist like Fjordman post at your blog?

re: #214 A. van Hilten

Fjordman has turned out to be a tragedy. I used to look forward to his posts here on lgf until the nitty gritty of his views came creeping out during a couple of the Euro threads last year. Bye bye fjordman. Maybe Robert wants to keep seeing what he has to say. Robert's site isn't exactly like lgf.

Robert,

I see that I was was wrong about Google Cache. I read several JihadPosts a day sometime, and I make a note to check the author. I was convinced that I read "Robert" as for who signed that specific one, and I must have confused it with another one.

I admit that I was wrong about this, and I retract the accusation. But I do not retract what's really important, and that is your disgusting connections and your religious supremacy.

I never called you "secretly a fascist", and even when someone has implicated you as such, I have defended you against the direct charge. So again, stop putting words in my mouth.

I thought you miss-quoted my husband. I thought he said "support" instead of "praise". Big deal! Is that my big lie? Is that your line of defense? That the commenter merely supported Milosevic; he didn't explicitly praise him? So supporting Milosevic instead of openly praising him is not worth condemning? So my husband, or anyone who condemned someone for supporting Milosevic has been intellectually bested? I won't play semantics games with you, as you fooled Glenn Reynolds in the splitting-hairs department, let alone me or my husband:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]
[Link: www.pajamasmedia.com...]

The commenter in question was expressing his support of casting doubt on the genocidal accusations Milosevic was facing, and whether that constitutes open praise or support of Milosevic, is completely irrelevant because both charges are equally repulsive.

Yes, you have posts opposing known Euro-Fascists like LePen and the FPO, yet some of your close associates, including Mr. Triffkovic, as far as I'm aware, have participated in the "Counter Jihad Brussels Conference" full of neo-fascists back in 2007 (not sure if you yourself were there) and you never condemned them.

You also condemn Serbian genocide vacuously, by never admitting to one such instance of it ever occurring. So you are known for your logical acrobatics. The organization you are a board of director in, The American Council for Kosovo, is headed by a known Serbian fascist, and has ties to Karadzic and Milosevic through its various members. That's what the facts on the table are, and those are what I challenge you to prove me a liar about: the use of "praise" versus "support" won't get you very far.

re: #216 ploome hineni

Good one. Better worded than mine.

re: #215 Sunlight

Fjordman has turned out to be a tragedy. I used to look forward to his posts here on lgf until the nitty gritty of his views came creeping out during a couple of the Euro threads last year. Bye bye fjordman. Maybe Robert wants to keep seeing what he has to say. Robert's site isn't exactly like lgf.

But as the first poster on that thread comments:

Why is Fjordman taken seriously anymore? He doesn't even believe in free speech, which is an essential building block of Western civilization.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at August 28, 2008 9:43 AM

If Spencer wants to be taken seriously by anyone who doesn't already endorse Pat Pukeanan's 'political views', he'd be well advised to disassociate himself from Fjordman, Jatras, Gorin et al.

typo:

The organization you sit on the board of, The American Council for Kosovo, is headed by a known Serbian fascist, and has ties to Karadzic and Milosevic through its various members.

re: #224 ploome hineni

so what

well known fascist may change...islamic jihad NEVER CHANGES

still better than muslims

Great!

You are basically restating Robert Spencer's thesis with more blunt language. If this is what we have reduced the argument to, then I rest my case.

i support robert spencer and the work he does.
i don't accept the allegations that he believes in genocide or that he is a nazi.
he reaches so many people to expose the vile and insidious nature of islam.

the bitter attacks on him are so vicious and way beyond what would be appropriate in this situation.
vague implications of unsavory association.
i'm wondering why certain people are trying so hard to derail him and bring him down.
and can't focus on how important he is in the war on jihad.
something stinks abt. this witch hunt.

Robert,

My understanding of the way you operate in these murky waters, is that you constantly test them. Sometimes you overextend yourself either through your own writings, or via your proxies, and you then check what the reaction is.

Why was that post on your blog from September 4th until now? You admit that someone tipped you off here. Don't you read your own blog, or do you wait for Charles or others to raise their eyebrows before you reconsider the material you post? I find it unbelievable that you were not aware of what had been posted on your website about a week prior. We have every reason to believe that the only reason you retracted it is because Charles noticed it and didn't seem to impressed.

With all the associations you have, anyone in their right mind would be suspicious.

re: #227 medaura18586

no, most people would not be 'suspicious'.
most people would take a dedicate man like robert spencer at his word
and appreciate the work he does.
he is fearless and tireless in exposing the dangers of islam.
do you applaud that at all, or is that the real problem you have w/ him?

re: #228 nyc redneck

One of the most important "duties" of the new media types (incl lgf, pj, robert, etc.) is to reveal the attitudes and actions of people worldwide that the MSM will not cover. The on and off acceptance of a wide variety of posters is part of that. And figuring out how to expose the underneath without supporting or re-energizing it is a work in progress.

re: #228 nyc redneck

no, most people would not be 'suspicious'.
most people would take a dedicate man like robert spencer at his word
and appreciate the work he does.
he is fearless and tireless in exposing the dangers of islam.
do you applaud that at all, or is that the real problem you have w/ him?

Bwahahaha. You're one reeeaaaaaally gullible redneck, buddy. Yeah, "farless and tireless in exposing the dangers of islam." Meaning his life is NOT threatened, unlike Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has to be under protection 24/7, and he's in bed with the likes of Fjordman and other assorted bigots.

Haven't you bought the Brooklyn bridge yet?

re: #231 ploome hineni

her ccusations are not worth denying

she has come to share OUR country and effor

actually she has come to berate and take advantage

She is equally snotty on her site about Canada, where she got her university degree. She gives chutzpah a bad name.

re: #233 ploome hineni

the 3 of them

vile

I think they are all sock puppets for the same person. BTW, notice Robert Spenser has stopped signing off his comments to them as ....Cordially. LOL

re: #149 Sharmuta

Well then- I guess we're even since many here feel that europe doesn't give a rat's ass about America either. Have fun wallowing in your self-made pity party, or better yet, make some tea and invite the BNP over. I'm sure they'll solve all your problems for you.

You put me at the head of the table at the 'pity party' while you're chunnering on about how you 'feel' as if all of Europe hates you and, based on that premise, the kind of comments I'm talking about are automatically justified?

Why would I have any wish to 'make some tea and invite the BNP over'? I think it's pretty well established that they're a bunch of unsavoury nutters. Would you have them over for tea? As for their problem solving skills, it's also pretty well established that they are the cause of problems, not solutions. The British people have known it from day one; You act sometimes as if you'd only just discovered this about these fucking idiots.

Why do you think they've always been so bloody marginalised? And make no mistake, they are marginalised. The press has hounded and exposed these morons so much, they can't do jack shit of any consequence without us all knowing about it. Every time they try to throw some sort of demonstration, either the police suggest they not bother, or the anti-fascist bunch turn up and counter protest, which almost always ends in a punch up; hence the plod doing the best they can to put them off before the fact.

Did you think the sheer insanity that the BNP represent is entirely lost on people in Britain? How thick do we have to be, in your estimation, to qualify for the level of stupidity you seem to believe is fitting for your mental image of the average Briton, if you think for one minute that our nation is going to fall for their ideology?

No one with any amount of intelligence would suggest that these idiots aren't dangerous to an extent but, as I said, they're kept in the margins because every stunt they pull is scrutinised and reported upon to the last detail and it only serves to reinforce the reasons why we Brits can't stand them or what they stand for. It's a no brainer. I'll also note that the press doesn't look like laying off them, to any degree, any time soon. Or the Lefties, the Anti-Fascists, the hippies, the students union, the trade unions, the university faculties, the police, the government....... The list goes on...... basically anything a hair's fraction left of centre onwards absolutely hates them for all the usual reasons of their ilk, a hair's fraction the other way and they're despised as exactly the sort of sociopathic, nazi, shite we had to fight or die in WWII. Conservative British memories are very long on that one. They're also inherited, I might add. There hasn't been a generation since 1945 that has thought for one second about letting the Krauts off the hook for that one. Except the PC crowd, of course, but who gives a fuck about them? It's the Germans. They started it.

As for Europe, or continential Europe if the distinction is necessary (seeing as we Brits don't identify ourselves as 'European'), I grant you there are things that happen there that reach us and it makes us shake our heads at the insanity of them. Just don't equate the threat of fascism in Britain as on a par with that of Europe.

these attacks are beyond the pale.
too much protest. too much hollering.
this kind of militant jihading directed at robert spencer isn't abt. his associations w/ ie fjordman etc.
it's abt. robert spencer's work. what he does to shine a light on islam.
it's abt. trying to shut him down.
they're threatened by him.

they are reacting like moslems.

re: #227 medaura18586

Hey sweety - some people have a life.

re: #236 snowcrash

I think they are all sock puppets for the same person. BTW, notice Robert Spenser has stopped signing off his comments to them as ....Cordially. LOL

Don't think. It isn't good for your hemorrhoids. LOL!

re: #234 A. van Hilten

Get real. His site is getting 24mil hits. You think that the 'Muslim Community' of America isn't aware of this guys presence on the Internet? He even has his face out there in videos.

If Theo Van Gogh can't walk about town do you really think Spencer just struts out of his front door in the fullness of the sun like a normal person? Highly doubtful.

You are disgraceful as well, calling into doubt the faith and intentions of posters; insinuating antisemitic sentiments from them and deliberately linking them with white supremacist conspiracy theorists, and you or your wife have even bandied about the offensive "Jewhadist" label, equating practicing Jews with terrorists.

You are both on record on your website denouncing 'Nationalism' and 'Patriotism', that being the instruments and driving forces behind the concept of the Nation-State. Not to mention your attitudes toward even the concept of someone believing in any religion. One-World Atheist Utopia for us all, Comrade.

You're wife is also on record on your own website as only liking the theoretical foundations of the US, but finds the people who live here so repugnant that she had to flee to Canada, and then back to Europe.

Why do you post here, and what exactly about your ideology that promotes the dissolving of national borders, the abolition of religion, and the creation of a 'New Man', is Conservative, that isn't just something that is theoretically OK on paper but doesn't actually work in practice unlike your Collectivist wonderlands that you obviously prefer over the US?

You decry Spencer for his associations, but you yourselves seem stuck with one foot firmly in the world of Collectivist ideology. You don't like what Americans have to say, so you flee to a place where people are put before 'Human Rights' Tribunals, or actually imprisoned for violating the sanctity of State mandated groupthink.

re: #230 A. van Hilten

It makes her claim of having survived the Holocaust seem like a bad joke. (It probably is.)

Almost like that nasty rumor (also spread by other revisionists in the same vein as Jatras et al.) that Eichmann was Jewish.

You really never do know when to quit.

Why don't you go crawl back under your rock now until you can stink up another dead thread.

re: #228 nyc redneck

no, most people would not be 'suspicious'.
most people would take a dedicate man like robert spencer at his word
and appreciate the work he does.
he is fearless and tireless in exposing the dangers of islam.
do you applaud that at all, or is that the real problem you have w/ him?

Exposing the dangers of radical Islam is extremely important (and no one that I know of does it better than Charles). Identifying a problem, however, does not mean one knows how to fix it.

Robert Spencer advocates (or supports people who advocate) very dangerous US foreign policy, namely:

- creating instability in the middle east to let the muslims kill each other off. Try and find support for building democracy in Iraq on Jihad Watch --- you won't. To Spencer and his proxies, Iraq as a stable ally and democracy is a lost cause because nothing can be achieved with Muslims in the way.

[Link: jihadwatch.org...]
[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

Robert Spencer is fomenting the Michael Savage/Patrick Buchanan wing of the Republican party on Jihad Watch. Note the comments on this post which announced the handover of Anbar province back to Iraqis (not a single positive comment):
[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

When we do win the war in Iraq and leave with a stable pro-American ally, it will prove these creatures wrong...

- Spencer sits on the advisory board of the deviously named "American Council for Kosovo" - a Serbian lobby/front group - whose members decry "criminal" American actions in the Balkans, deny Serbian genocide under Milosevic, call for America to abandon relations with Kosovo and its NATO allies, and also advocates joint military operations with Russia to take over Kosovo by force....and many many more dangerous positions.

[Link: www.savekosovo.org...]
[Link: www.savekosovo.org...]

I wrote an expose on Robert's "friend" and JihadWatch board member, James Jatras.
[Link: kejda.net...]

There is much more down this path -- I've been digging up even worse associations. Until today, I was going to let it rest. However, Spencer's manipulations and personal attacks can not go unanswered.

We all agree (save for Ploomie) that fascism in Europe is not the answer. I oppose Robert Spencer because religious supremacy is also not the answer.

I am pleased that R.S. has acted against racialist opportunism on that site. (To his credit he has been consistent on this.) However he still troubles me -

2. To form one group for indigenous Europeans, as has been done in several countries, reduces virtually every issue to the one non-negotiable issue of race and ethnicity, discourages cooperation, and thus encourages Balkanization, works against the idea of representative government, and obscures the common values of Judeo-Christian civilization that are shared by people of many races and ethnicities.

Note that he can't help but slip "Judeo-Christian" into his definition of civilisation in a European context ("common values"). In place of a racial definition of Europe, he wants a religious definition.

re: #247 Zimriel

I am pleased that R.S. has acted against racialist opportunism on that site. (To his credit he has been consistent on this.) However he still troubles me -

Note that he can't help but slip "Judeo-Christian" into his definition of civilisation in a European context ("common values"). In place of a racial definition of Europe, he wants a religious definition.

I'm not so sure about that. It's about a cultural heritage and a set of values that persists even despite the secularization of individuals. I won't go into a great litany of these values but the sanctity of the individual soul and the equality of all persons before God is a key notion as I understand it.

re: #245 Lynn B.

You really never do know when to quit.

Why don't you go crawl back under your rock now until you can stink up another dead thread.

Funny. So you strongly disapprove of my antics but don't have any objection to make to Spencer for lending a vritual soapbox to a racist like "Fjordman?" You're a hypocrite. But we already knew that.

re: #247 Zimriel

In place of a racial definition of Europe, he wants a religious definition.

Exactly right...Robert Spencer is without a doubt a religious supremacist. Often times his interests overlap with those of the racial supremacists. If their goals converge on specific issues, he will support them explicitly or second-handedly through his proxies (Jatras, Gorin, Fjordman, etc).

At their core, both ideologies of racial and religious supremacy are collectivistic, authoritarian, hateful to non-subscribers, and profoundly anti-western.

re: #246 medaura18586

your rabid zeal to bring robert spencer down, based on what you've enumerated in your post, seems pathological.

re: #252 nyc redneck

your rabid zeal to bring robert spencer down, based on what you've enumerated in your post, seems pathological.

I am "pathologically" in love with western civilization and freedom. I find Spencer's religious supremacy revolting and an obvious threat to the freedoms that I love and cherish.

re: #249 Moe Katz

I'm not so sure about that. It's about a cultural heritage and a set of values that persists even despite the secularization of individuals. I won't go into a great litany of these values but the sanctity of the individual soul and the equality of all persons before God is a key notion as I understand it.

Yes, absolutely. As an American Atheist, I absolutely come from a society that is born of a synthesis of Classical-Hellenic and Judeo-Christian values regardless of my religious beliefs.

You can deny it all you want, but the current culture of the Western world comes just as much from Middle Eastern Jewish culture as it does from pre-Christianity European Pagans. In regards to values such as justice and propriety in the West, they are completely upside down from the virtually every tribal society of Pagan Europe, but are extremely consistent with what is in the Bible.

Centuries upon centuries of near total religious hegemony left its mark upon the western world, regardless of how much rabid anti-religion atheists want to deny it.

re: #248 A. van Hilten

What gives you the impression that I'm married to Medaura? I don't live in the same continent, boychik.

van Hilten, did you steal my wife or something?

I better keep an eye on her...

:)

re: #252 nyc redneck

your rabid zeal to bring robert spencer down, based on what you've enumerated in your post, seems pathological.

On the other hand, efforts to brown-nose Spencer are laudable indeed. Even when they're born of the pathological hatred/fear of Islam and Muslims.

Quick, everybody hail Robert Spencer as our Saviour-From-The
-Moslems-That-Threaten-Us!

re: #251 medaura18586

Exactly right...Robert Spencer is without a doubt a religious supremacist.

I'll take the warning into advisement, but I'll start believing it when I see Spencer put up SikhWatch.

I will look forward to his 'Blogging the Guru Granth Sahib' series that exposes the ideology of expansionist warfare against infidels put forth in Sikh scriptures.

For that matter I've never seen him personally put forth a fraction of some of the ridiculous nonsense of some of the American 'Evangelical' community about their desire to see war between Muslims and Jews to bring on the rapture.

Spencer seems to actually be staunchly pro-Israel, and on the it not being wiped out by Muslims side of things. I've seen posts in support of the non-Muslim Indians as well at Jihadwatch. Maybe someone should clue him in, that if he intends for Christianity to reign supreme that the Jews and Hindus are going to have to go, not just the Muslims.

Maybe you could charge him with being an anti-Islamic 'bigot' but I don't think you would be exactly offering any insight to anyone here in that regard.

re: #259 A. van Hilten

I'm afraid that ship has sailed... but Jatras is indeed a traitor.

What oven time and temperature do people favor for boneless chicken breasts with a glaze?

re: #261 A. van Hilten
Really over the top and abusive. I am reporting it.

re: #261 A. van Hilten

Down Ding. Get lost. I don't like the subliminal message you are giving.

I wonder...

Who on earth would be so threatened by one man's Christianity -- a man who isn't a priest, pastor or religious leader, a man who doesn't have millions of oil dollars funneled to his bank account on a regular basis, a man who holds no political office -- that they would accuse him of being a religious supremacist and try their hardest to hurt his reputation (a-link-whoring as they go, la la la la la)?

I can think of a few religious supremacists -- individuals, governments and organizations -- who pose a real threat to the United States, Canada and the rest of the free world:

- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
- Ali Khamenei
- The House of Saud
- Al Qaeda
- The Taliban
- Hamas
- Hezbollah
- Not to mention countless raving imams throughout the world.

If I were to create a Top 1,000 List of Religious Supremacists Who Threaten Our Freedom, Robert Spencer wouldn't qualify. I bet he doesn't even force his next-door neighbour to go to church.

re: #261 A. van Hilten

You are headed to Hell and your tongue is leading the way. Have you moral compass?

re: #260 medaura18586

I'm afraid that ship has sailed... but Jatras is indeed a traitor.

Judging by the, ahem, readership here these Quislings in drag who pretend to fight Islamofascism™ while trying to advance their supremacist agendas have the unconditional support of a lot of paranoid fruitcakes on the right. The same people who'd hang B.H.O. from a tree for Rev. Wright's outrageous remarks can't see anything wrong with denying the genocide in Bosnia, Ploome being the shrillest — if not the brightest — advocate for Serbian supremacism on this thread.

re: #263 Moe Katz

What oven time and temperature do people favor for boneless chicken breasts with a glaze?

350 degrees until the chicken cuts through without bleeding. Don't overdo it or it will dry out. Try covering with foil to keep in some moisture.

This thread will now be shut down.

A. van Hilten has been warned more than once about the over-the-top vicious attacks, and his account is now blocked. For the record.