For this we spent our blood and treasure? Gah!

Another chance to shine the light on the intolerance and insanity of Islam.

[pre-deleted]

Some people and some countries sometimes don't deserve to be free.

Still barbarians....

/sigh

....and provoked the feelings of the Iraqi people.

What exactly were those feelings? Sounds like the Dem party.

Prosecute, persecute, it's all the same to some people...

The more things change, the more they stay the same. The same prejudices and bias. The same anti-Semitism. The same anti-Israel sentiment that persists throughout the Middle East still reaches deep into Iraq. It will not change overnight, and it certainly will not change if the Arab media outlets and mad mullahs continue their weekly anti-Israel rants.

With friends like these.....

/do I even have to?

You can lead a horse (or a camel) to water...

Well we reject your rejection which violates commen sense...........

in breach of a law they said had been retained since the rule of late dictator Saddam Hussein

That's odd, I could have sworn we spent our blood and treasure to overthrow that hateful tyrant. But you still want to follow his laws.

Digusting.

And how many Americans are now dead giving these "friends" of ours "freedom"?

come on little hamsters, get the lead out

Why does this suprise everyone here? I mean really. Why?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LE668892. htm

The Saudis want death for "TV Sorcerors".

Why should this be surprising?

Anyone who checked the history and character of Iraq since Churchill invented the state in 1922 should have expected this.

Doesn't Biden want to prosecute Bush, if/when Biden gets into office?

Are the Iraqis taking a page from the Dem playbook or are the Dems taking a page from the Iraqi/Islamic playbook?

One step forward, two steps backwards.

re: #10 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

You can lead a horse (or a camel) to water...

But you can't stop em from pissing in it!

PMIF
commen=common

I think GWB needs to explain a few things to them. And he bring along a few gentlemen with baseball bats to provide some reinforcement of the message.

re: #10 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

You can lead a horse (or a camel) to water...

...but nothing smells worse than a wet horse (or camel, though I can't say from personal experience)...

Members of parliament said Mithal al-Alusi had committed a crime by “visiting a country that Iraq considers an enemy”,

Criminy, if we did that half the Dems in Congress would be in the pokey.

Let's send 'em a few more billion dollars while we're at it.

Short-sightedness of the Bush/Condi "doctrine" to not insist upon a diplomatic/trade tariff between Israel & Iraq - or else...where was our Secretary of State when we needed her? Oh yeah, she's been too busy parceling Israel off to the Trans-Jordanians.

but then again, we do the same thing to Americans who go to Cuba

I would like to thank Mithal al-Alusi for making the trip to Israel.

I'm sure he knew that it would get him into trouble.

Ya can't even visit the 'Evil Zionist Entitie" huh?
How many of our kids have died there & how much treasure spent?
I am sure Barry would think that this is ok , even though he is probably weak from his Ramadan fast.

Quagmire!

Members of parliament said Mithal al-Alusi had committed a crime by “visiting a country that Iraq considers an enemy”,

May I point out to you, al Asswipe, Your enemy has not been shipping arms and terrorists across your boarder to blow up your citizens. Can your friend Iran say that ?

re: #14 Shug

come on little hamsters, get the lead out

Never been this sluggish for me...did the hamsters party all weekend?

re: #16 Sean

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk /LE668892.htm

The Saudis want death for "TV Sorcerors".

We must mock them in the misery!

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I guess Obama's calls to meet enemies without preconditions wouldn't go over so well in Iraq.

What about interfaith dialogue and diversity?! al-Alusi was only trying to "reach out"!

re: #26 Shug

but then again, we do the same thing to Americans who go to Cuba

No we don't.

I have a number of friends who have visited Cuba, including my own sisiter, and none of them have been charged with any crime.

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

Fatwa coming down in 3...2...1...

re: #27 Ringo the Gringo

I would like to thank Mithal al-Alusi for making the trip to Israel.

I'm sure he knew that it would get him into trouble.

Well you'll probably be able to do that in person soon, since it will probably be impossible for him to continue to live in Iraq. What a world?

Maybe this is a different situation, but remember when Pelosi went overseas and met with terrorists? Just playing devil's advocate. This is likely a political move by an opposition party than enforcing an actual law on the books. Just my two cents.

re: #35 Clio

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

The Big ZERO.

Right?

I couldn't get the whole article to come up. I have a niggling suspicion this is a political attack, though. And when Reuters says 'Iraq will prosecute ... ' is it the same as saying 'The US will prosecute Scooter Libby ... '? Technically the US did prosecute him, but it was obviously a political pretzel-izing of the rules in order to do it. I don't put the blame for his prosecution/persecution on the entire US or even on Bush, but rather on Fitzgerald and those in congress who forced it to happen.

Also, it's Reuters, and their aim is to make the world think the US has completely failed in Iraq, and this seems a good way to do it.

I'll wait to see how this plays out. Hopefully we can work it so this man is not persecuted for politics. But I think this is what this is. It's not even clear to them whether the law covers a visit like this.

In any case, it's a reflection on Islam, not necessarily on Iraq. In fact, in the Muslim world, it's only in Iraq that he has a chance.

It never ceases to amaze how badly the Bush administration fucked this one up. You would have thought that with a bit of planning the Iraqis would now be in possession of a constitution which prevents this sort of travesty.

And this is the point that Palin should be hitting home on: Donald Rumseld, a Fortune 500 mega-CEO, a man with 40+ years of DC experience and all he managed was to screw this up big time. So stop asking about DC experience.

re: #39 The Other Les

The Big ZERO.

Right?

If the Big Zero's initials are BHO, then you are right.

::kicks Obama butt to the curb::

That's why we must stay on Iraqi sidelines guarding the oilfields , protecting what we've earned. The next few years may be a pretty bumpy world financial ride, and the US cannot - WILL not be caught energy short.

re: #41 rednaxela

You think Bush could make the Arabs like the Jews? Wow. Not even the Almighty BHO claims to be able to do that

Jews to Iraqis:

Get the hell over it.

I think there's going to be a dramatic spike in Iraqi violence before the election. We've installed a nest of vipers in the place of a King Snake.

re: #26 Shug

but then again, we do the same thing to Americans who go to Cuba

and do we hate all cubans? do we want to kill them? Stop with the moral equivalence BS. NOT the same thing.

We are trying to bring down a dictatorship through economic sanctions...NOT kill all the Cuban people (although i KNOW you're going to argue that we're doing just that -- harming the people).

Seen many of your posts before and would not have expected this from you.

The more that things change.......

On that note of Islamic intolerance and its perennial intransigence: I received a Pre-Release 1 hr. DVD edition of the movie "Obsession" in Saturday's mail. It comes completely unsolicited, which is fine by me. My only hope is that they were distributed to everyone in my upper income chattering class zip code. I honestly don't need the info it provides, though the Liberals and other Run of the Public Education Mill Ostriches around me sure could use the edification it provides.

It is being distributed by The Clarion Fund. It has no address label and was attached to a glossy promo card. It came wrapped around my daily rubber banded bundle of mail. I only hope that this is being distributed to most other upper income zips in metropolitan areas around the country as a targeted information saturation campaign, and is not something I received as a result of some data mining/mass mailing effort to people who subscribe to certain publications. Again, it is not I that need this DVD, it is the willfully uniformed and generally ignorant that do.

re: #35 Clio

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

I might need a clue. Does his name start with zero?

re: #35 Clio

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

Noooo ...

Do tell - would be a shame if we guessed wrong ...

/

There's no hope for these people...they'll never change or find the ability to think outside of their proverbial islamic box.

re: #49 Kosh's Shadow

I might need a clue. Does his name start with zero?

Did he refuse to sigh and support it, or was he out campaigning that day?

re: #44 simonml

You think Bush could make the Arabs like the Jews? Wow. Not even the Almighty BHO claims to be able to do that

Of course not, since I don't think 0 likes the Jews either. (Except that he wants their votes and campaign contributions.)

I blame the State crowd who compromised our victory by writing this Islamist friendly Constituion for Iraq.

Jesus wept. You'd think after 24 years of Saddam Hussein and 5 years of Sunni & Shite sectarianism, an ongoing war with terrorist lunatics and subsequent loss of infrastructure and basic standard of living, they'd have developed a clearer perspective on who their enemies are?

I mean what the f*ck did Israel ever do to Iran?

Perhaps they blame Israel for the thousands of dollars Saddam paid to the Palestinian splodey dope families, but it's a bit obtuse.

Perhaps hating Jews is more important than hating people who actually want to kill you.

I've changed my mind about Iraq. Withdraw the f*cking troops. Let the Iraqis rot.

re: #35 Clio

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

Why?

I predict Iran part 2 in the next decade

re: #58 pegcity

I predict Iran part 2 in the next decade

There's already a secret war against Iran.

(virtual edit button)
Jesus wept. You'd think after 24 years of Saddam Hussein and 5 years of Sunni & Shite sectarianism, an ongoing war with terrorist lunatics and subsequent loss of infrastructure and basic standard of living, they'd have developed a clearer perspective on who their enemies are?

I mean what the f*ck did Israel ever do to Iraq?

Perhaps they blame Israel for the thousands of dollars Saddam paid to the Palestinian splodey dope families, but it's a bit obtuse.

Perhaps hating Jews is more important than hating people who actually want to kill you.

I've changed my mind about Iraq. Withdraw the f*cking troops. Let the Iraqis rot.

re: #53 Nevergiveup

Did he refuse to sigh and support it, or was he out campaigning that day?

He probably voted present.

1. Jews were 1%-2% of Iraq before WW-II.
2. They got chased out.
3. The place became a hell hole.

Any questions?

Statistics:

Now Online: 5,348
Logged in: 344

re: #54 Kosh's Shadow

My point, which I was unable to get across, was that Iraqis hating Jews is not Bush's fault. He did not "f*ck this one up" as you put it

Weapon of mass destruction: position two guys on either side of a Muslim city, alternately have them start them start passing out $5.00 bills, first one then the other. Continue until only one guy left.

Operationg principle

I guess old habits die hard, but this is truly depressing to think they were making progress, but it's still the same old islam.

re: #56 uptight

Jesus wept. You'd think after 24 years of Saddam Hussein and 5 years of Sunni & Shite sectarianism, an ongoing war with terrorist lunatics and subsequent loss of infrastructure and basic standard of living, they'd have developed a clearer perspective on who their enemies are?

I mean what the f*ck did Israel ever do to Iran?

Perhaps they blame Israel for the thousands of dollars Saddam paid to the Palestinian splodey dope families, but it's a bit obtuse.

Perhaps hating Jews is more important than hating people who actually want to kill you.

I've changed my mind about Iraq. Withdraw the f*cking troops. Let the Iraqis rot.

I agree except for the withdrawing part. That's exactly the aim of an insult like this. I say, give them more of what they don't want. Obviously, they are a bunch of babies who need to be monitored for their own well-being. Malaki must be shoved off the train at some point, too. Unfortunately, until the Dems are swept out of office, overseeing reform in Iraq is going to be a naked shit-fight.

Lets keep fighting..win hearts and minds and all that crap. When they have their democracy they will still hate you and me. Lets take the 100 billion or so planned over the next year and spend it on fixing our economy, anyone for that?

re: #64 Fat Jolly Penguin

Statistics:

Where can I find those?

re: #65 simonml

My point, which I was unable to get across, was that Iraqis hating Jews is not Bush's fault. He did not "f*ck this one up" as you put it

I didn't say that; did you quote the wrong comment?
This comment was that I don't think 0bama likes Jews except for votes and campaign contributions.

re: #35 Clio

Please provide a Link if you have one. That would be a great story for the RNC to run with.

re: #63 lifeofthemind

1. Jews were 1%-2% of Iraq before WW-II.
2. They got chased out.
3. The place became a hell hole.

Any questions?

I spoke with several liberal minded folks in DC a few weeks ago who stated that Jews still happily reside in Iraq and Iran and were never chased out. Their ignorance just astounded me.

Countries that discriminate against Israel shouldn't be members of the United Nations, period.

re: #44 simonml

Absolutely right, but a bit of post-war planning might have been conducive to preventing this kind of behaviour on a state-to-state level.

But alas, Rumsfeld had to go with his war-lite.

Now we wait and see where this investment of lives will go. Will these people take the freedom HANDED to them and throw it to the mullahs or will they enter the civilized family of man?

I'm going to be optimistic. The Iraqis have tasted first hand the joys of militant islam.

I hope.

re: #74 alegrias

Countries that discriminate against Israel shouldn't be members of the United Nations, period.

It would be an pretty empty place?

re: #65 simonml

My point, which I was unable to get across, was that Iraqis hating Jews is not Bush's fault. He did not "f*ck this one up" as you put it

Sorry. I meant to quote rednaxela #41. My bad.

So -

With enemies like Israel - guess Iraq needs friends like "Iran."

-S-

re: #74 alegrias

Countries that discriminate against Israel shouldn't be members of the United Nations, period.

I'd generalize that, to say that to be a UN member, should require recognition of all other UN member states.

....... in breach of a law they said had been retained since the rule of late dictator Saddam Hussein.

Why didn't they change that law until now?
Probably because all the surrounding countries have very similar laws and to have changed it it would have appeared that the Iraqi Gov. eats the humble pie vis-a-vis their liberator.
=> They have no guts, no cojones and no back-bone.

re: #74 alegrias

Countries that discriminate against Israel shouldn't be members of the United Nations, period.

That rule would wipe out half the UN.

imsorrywhatnow? Iraq considers israel an enemy?

blinded by faith...

re: #6 Lively

I was thinking the same thing.

re: #70 lifeofthemind

Where can I find those?

It's the ninth flippy triangle under the login box.

What's wrong with LGF?

re: #69 sakublock

Lets keep fighting..win hearts and minds and all that crap. When they have their democracy they will still hate you and me. Lets take the 100 billion or so planned over the next year and spend it on fixing our economy, anyone for that?

* * * *
Wish we could. However,

Iraqis are in a strategic place, plus they have oil which our country still needs in case you missed this weekends hurricane damage of Texas oil facilities providing 20% of our nation's energy needs.

Fixing our economy requires cutting energy prices among many other objectives. As we've learned, energy prices affect nearly everything we buy, use, consume.

re: #67 Sharmuta

I guess old habits die hard, but this is truly depressing to think they were making progress, but it's still the same old islam.

Islam will never change - hating and killing Jews is an integral part of their 'holy book', thus their religion.

There are a thousand Saddams in Iraq now. One of the mistakes the Bush administration made was looking at Saddam and the Baathist as a disease plaguing Iraq that could be cured with their removal. in truth, Saddam was a symptom of the disease, a product of the Iraqi system, a heady syncretism of Bedouin tribalism, Islamic Mores, and Arabic culture.

What has happened in Iraq is a shift from Sunni Supremacism to Shia Theocracy - the names are different, but the repressions live on, now brilliantly enshrined in the Iraqi Constitution, where Sharia usurps human rights.

The Turbans are in charge of Iraq now and it should come as no surprise that honor killings have increased and women's rights have declined.

And their attitudes to Israel and the Jews - Well it was the dominant Shia parties and Ayatollah Sistani, that wanted nothing to do with reparations for Iraqi Jews.

And there is a close relationship between Hezb'allah and several of the Iraqi parties, including the Sadrists.

re: #65 simonml

My point, which I was unable to get across, was that Iraqis hating Jews is not Bush's fault. He did not "f*ck this one up" as you put it

Ummmmm...look at No. 41. It's not Kosh.

re: #80 Kosh's Shadow

I'd generalize that, to say that to be a UN member, should require recognition of all other UN member states.

* * *
Agreed. It's basic, especially since the UN helped create Israel!

re: #80 Kosh's Shadow

I'd generalize that, to say that to be a UN member, should require recognition of all other UN member states.

Then all signatories of the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights (i.e. Sharia) should also be banned.
Result: League of Democratic Nations

re: #82 David Simon

That rule would wipe out half the UN.

That's fine with me. It would get rid of the bad half, and get the UN closer to the "league of democracies" McCain proposed.

We don't take kindly to people who don't take kindly around here.

re: #86 MandyManners

What's wrong with LGF?

Hamsters are tired? Hungry? Thirsty? On strike?

re: #82 David Simon

I thought the UN was Useless Nations, much like the League of Nations.

re: #90 MandyManners

Yeah. Blind replying on my part. Sorry

re: #74 alegrias

Countries that discriminate against Israel shouldn't be members of the United Nations, period.

Countries that discriminate against Israel run the UN.

re: #95 yma o hyd

Hamsters are tired? Hungry? Thirsty? On strike?

Hungover?

re: #86 MandyManners

What's wrong with LGF?

Bunch of right wing hater fascists.

/ / / /

re: #93 Kosh's Shadow

That's fine with me. It would get rid of the bad half, and get the UN closer to the "league of democracies" McCain proposed.

I certainly wouldn't complain.

The Iraqis will pay lip service to the Islamic hotheads as long as all they do is talk and stay within the confines of Iraqi law. I expect a quiet, pragmatic relationship between Israel and Iraq. Don't expect hugs and kisses; but I believe the $25K checks to suicide bombers are out of the question.

Well... they are still muslim arabs. Sigh.

re: #96 CommonSense

I thought the UN was Useless Nations, much like the League of Nations.

Not quite. The League of Nations accomplished nothing, whereas the UN (save for UNICEF) accomplishes very real damage.

re: #88 yma o hyd

Islam will never change - hating and killing Jews is an integral part of their 'holy book', thus their religion.

Thats true but why should we suffer in the long run by using Iraqi or middle eastern oil. Priority number one is use our own, drill, ethanol anything. #2 use our own innovation with government assistance in developing alternatives. Hey, we had a race to the moon which we won.

re: #88 yma o hyd

Islam will never change - hating and killing Jews is an integral part of their 'holy book', thus their religion.

Islam will never change but Islamic extremism will likely diffuse over time. The Muslim world is seriously lagging in the civilizing department but the rest of the world will be eventually erode the stone-age walls. They don't have the brain-power (organization, unity) to pull together a global caliphate, or even seal out cultural progress forever. It will just seem like forever.

But how I do despise this so-called religion.

OT:
WTF?

Kos poll

Obama: 48%
McCain: 45%

Huh?

And if you don't think Iraq is a Shia Theocratic Republic - LOL, you have no clue.

Every day is a Holiday in the Shia Theocratic Republic of Iraq:

The number of Shiite holidays in Iraq has now reached 111 days per year, reflecting the growing sense of religious freedom and political power associated with the Shia faith in Iraq today.

We would rather sodomize our own children than normalize relations with Israel! OK, bad example, because we frequently sodomize our own children anyhow... still, we really, really hate Jews. Must be that code of morality they have...

Anyone want to buy a T-shirt that says:

We spent American blood and treasure and all we got was another Arab shithole.

re: #35 Clio

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

LINK?

re: #107 Typicalwhitey

OT:
WTF?

Kos poll

Obama: 48%
McCain: 45%

Huh?

What is this from? Do you have a link for us?

re: #110 Opinionated

Anyone want to buy a T-shirt that says:

We spent American blood and treasure and all we got was another Arab shithole.

We have shown the Iraqis first hand how kind, compassionate, and reasonable Americans can be face to face. They have also seen what we are capable of when we are pissed off.

We cannot change thousands of years of hatred overnight. Hey, in the past this guy would have been hanged as soon as he got back.

re: #107 Typicalwhitey

OT:
WTF?

Kos poll

Obama: 48%
McCain: 45%

Huh?

Gotta a link? So we can all go help?

;^)

RE: Israel

Once again Israel makes concessions, and attempts to negotiate with the PLO for Peace, but the PLO rejects it demanding (again) everything they could think of demanding....or.....PLO Rejects Peace! (also, in this article is an interesting look into what motivates Olmert)

PLO threatens that if Israel doesn't give them 100% of what they are asking, they will push for One-State (ie: No more Israel), or take up 100% Terrorism till they achieve their goals.

See, this is the negotiation posture the Israeli Government has allowed itself into. It is no longer a level playing field where both sides would have to give up things to achieve peace. For, at least, the last 20 years, Israel has been the one making all of the sacrifices on their position (Ie: all of Judea/Samaria), and are now in a position where the PLO/Arabs continue to make their post-1967 demand (ie: that Israel leave all of Judea/Samaria -something Israel is now accepting) but have added more demands that not only threaten their security (by going back to the Auschwitz borders) but their sovereignty (right of return) and existence (Giving up Jerusalem), and Israel is agreeing to give in to these demands as well.

As I've often said, the two sides are no longer arguing their own positions but instead arguing over how to give the PLO everything they want. Israel's needs are no longer in the picture.

re: #106 Salem

Islam will never change but Islamic extremism will likely diffuse over time. The Muslim world is seriously lagging in the civilizing department but the rest of the world will be eventually erode the stone-age walls. They don't have the brain-power (organization, unity) to pull together a global caliphate, or even seal out cultural progress forever. It will just seem like forever.

But how I do despise this so-called religion.

Doubtful. The more the West bends over to Islamic demands, the more powerful the extremist recruiting becomes. No one wants to join a losing team (The West), but rather the up-and-coming, albeit backwards, squad (the extremists).

Basically, we must stem the tide NOW or else we're in for a gigantic screwjob in the next 20 years.

re: #85 Fat Jolly Penguin

It's the ninth flippy triangle under the login box.

Thank you

Media bias; read the caption.

There are more Shia religious holidays - 111 - than Jews left in Iraq - approximately 5 to 8.

re: #110 Opinionated

Anyone want to buy a T-shirt that says:

We spent American blood and treasure and all we got was another Arab shithole.

Nah. I've got a closet full of 'em.

Iraq may be an arab shithole, but at least, now, it's OUR arab shithole.

If we can only get our mits on the 80 billion in cash sitting in their bank, and use it to repay ourselves some of the treasure spent liberating them from plastic shredders and poison gas, that would be good.

re: #60 uptight

(virtual edit button)
Jesus wept. You'd think after 24 years of Saddam Hussein and 5 years of Sunni & Shite sectarianism, an ongoing war with terrorist lunatics and subsequent loss of infrastructure and basic standard of living, they'd have developed a clearer perspective on who their enemies are?

I mean what the f*ck did Israel ever do to Iraq?

Perhaps they blame Israel for the thousands of dollars Saddam paid to the Palestinian splodey dope families, but it's a bit obtuse.

Perhaps hating Jews is more important than hating people who actually want to kill you.

I've changed my mind about Iraq. Withdraw the f*cking troops. Let the Iraqis rot.

As I recall, they allowed Patriot missiles to attempt to stop the SCUD's from Iraq in the first war. That's exactly equivalent to what Poland is allowing currently. Obviously offensive. Putin says so. Iran agrees.

I would also like to point out that the lunacy is coming from the Iraqi politicians, elected by a bare majority of Iraqis. Not unlike the situation here in the U.S.A. Nancy Pelosi gets elected how ... supported from the densely populated areas, not enough bodies in the rest of the "rural" counties.

I would suggest we stop blaming "all the Iraqi people" until we take a closer look at how our politics got to be in the current state. You can't really get all that worked up about the Iraqi people unless you want to join a "majority" of U.S. citizens, including viewpoints on Israel.

re: #116 JSK1121

Doubtful. The more the West bends over to Islamic demands, the more powerful the extremist recruiting becomes. No one wants to join a losing team (The West), but rather the up-and-coming, albeit backwards, squad (the extremists).

Basically, we must stem the tide NOW or else we're in for a gigantic screwjob in the next 20 years.

Russia and China will not be converting to Islam, and neither will the US. Momentum isn't with Islam, ultimately. They may have the growing numbers but those growing numbers are mostly squatting in the mud. What might look like inroads for Islam will spawn political toll-booths and compromises. They can't just blow themselves up into power. We've seen that. If it weren't for the Saudi money, Islamic terrorism would still be a peripheral 9/10 issue. It's only been seven years. I was expecting worse by now.

I hope it's lip service, otherwise fuck Iraq, fuck Iraqis, fuck Arabs, and fuck Muslims.

Behold The Evil Jews! No wonder, Iraq hates them.

re: #11 yesandno

Well we reject your rejection which violates commen sense...........

good

re: #74 alegrias

I disagree. I think every Israel-loving country and every democracy should leave the UN, it's a stupid, useless organization and the epicentre of vile anti-Jewish and anti-Westernism.

Let the dictators have their own little Club UN in North Korea or Saudi Arabia-and GTFO of New York.

re: #126 WriterMom

So what you are saying is that Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia and North Korea should join the Arab league?

re: #127 WrathofG-d

I'm saying shut the UN down. Democracies should have their own organizations. Dictators should fend for themselves.

Sure-why shouldn't the Russians et all join the Arab League? That would be hilarious. I'd love to see the membership negotiations.

Hitler Head Returned to German Wax Museum: Germans Approve

re: #127 WrathofG-d

So what you are saying is that Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia and North Korea should join the Arab league?

In spirit, haven't they already?

re: #1 rawmuse

Yep.

The Nazi's and Japs paid the price.

If these folks can't get off their hatred,
then all that will be left is oil.

I suppose we should hang around till
they learn to *all get along*.

If they don't then fine. Send them to 72 virgin
paradise.

I'm sure it can be arranged.

re: #128 WriterMom

...Dictators should fend for themselves.

Indeed they should. In "multilateral" organizations like this.

A Peaceful Jewish Rally In Support of the Anti-Terrorism Fence in Nil'in Becomes a Riot When Arabs and the ISM attack!

re: #124 WrathofG-d

Maybe if they crawl up on top of that hill, knock
down the you know what and then rebuild
you know what, some folks would you
know what.

Freak out?

Know what I think?

If God is LOVE then the middle east missed out.

Best to tend to your own garden till
the bay guys steal your fruits.

And if they won't then turn the other cheek,
then use them for fertilizer.

re: #15 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Why does this suprise everyone here? I mean really. Why?

I don't see much surprise here. Just disgust.

OBAMA TRIED TO STALL GIS' IRAQ WITHDRAWAL

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

While in Iraq, Obama also tried to persuade the US commanders, including Gen. David Petraeus, to suggest a "realistic withdrawal date." They declined.

re: #134 GorgonBEgone

Most unfortunate language at the end of your post in my opinion.

re: #134 GorgonBEgone

The problem with the way that the West is dealing with Religious Islamist Fanatics is that we (the West) are making compromises, changing what we will accept for peace, and attempting not to upset the enemy.

The Islamists however are not shackling themselves with these voluntary impedaments. They make no compromises, never change their goals, and intend to upset their enemy (The West).

The longer this goes, the more The West will give for "peace". What this actually means however is that the Enemy will get everything they have always demanded without actually having to defeat The West. We will surrender it to them.

Expecting logic and goodwill from the arab world might qualify as insanity, by Einstein's definition.

re: #139 Maine's Michael

Why should they? Seriously? We expect the enemy to share our goals and interests despite the fact they we readily admit they have different goals and interests.

re: #22 The Other Les

I think GWB needs to explain a few things to them. And he bring along a few gentlemen with baseball bats to provide some reinforcement of the message.

Bingo! My thoughts exactly. Bush needs to have a sit-down with Iraq's prime minister and explain the facts of life to him.

Perhaps the Lightworker will help the Iraqis see the error of their ways.

re: #140 WrathofG-d

I expect nothing from them, myself. And I am not disappointed.

I am not surprised by these daily revelations of hatred and illogic.

What surprises me are the few and far between instances of the opposite.

The causes of this incident need to get rectified fast, or they will have to be dealt with later in far more unpleasant ways.

re: #143 Maine's Michael

I expect nothing from them, myself. And I am not disappointed.

I am not surprised by these daily revelations of hatred and illogic.

What surprises me are the few and far between instances of the opposite.

What surprises me is that The West, and especially Israel, continue to expect the Arabs to just one day wake up and do a 180 on everything they believe.

Once a Jew hater always a Jew hater.Islam is truly a mental disorder.

It's interesting that the PM of Iraq can go off to Tehran and meet with Dinnerjacket twenty years after the war that killed millions on both sides, but al-Alusi gets in trouble for going to the Herzeliya Conference.

re: #42 Clio

If the Big Zero's initials are BHO, then you are right.

re: #35 Clio

A young journalist named Choudary is now on trial for his life in Bangladesh for the crime of saying that Bangladesh should have normal diplomatic relations with Israel.

One of his Choudary's American supporters took a petition around the US Senate asking Senators to sign a statement on his behalf.

Only one senator refused.

It should not take more than one guess to identify which senator it was.

Thanks for mentioning this but I don't think that's exactly right. Obama did decline to show any interest in Choudhury's case but I'm not aware of a senate petition (?) or his refusal to sign. But I believe you're referring to House Resolution 64, which passed by a vote of 409 - 1. The initials of "the one" in that instance are RP.

re: #44 simonml

You think Bush could make the Arabs like the Jews? Wow. Not even the Almighty BHO claims to be able to do that

I doubt he could make the Iraqi like Israel, or Jews in general. But if he applied enough torsion to the proper arms, he perhaps could force them to adopt the sort of realpolitik that allows Egypt and Jordan to at least talk to Israel from time to time.

re: #142 Maine's Michael

Oh yes...and perhaps the Dixie Chicks will go entertain the troops.

My mistake: According to wikipedia, less than a million were killed in total on both sides in the Iran-Iraq war.

Oh well. You can put lipstick on an Islamic nation, but in the end...

Members of parliament said Mithal al-Alusi had committed a crime by “visiting a country that Iraq considers an enemy”,

Similar to the Prime Minister / Lil Al Sadr / Sheiks / Imams / etc... heading on over to Iran? or is it more like when Iraq invaded Kuwait, by implication making Kuwait an enemy? Thousands of Iraqis were in Kuwait undoubtedly not prosecuted.

Or is it like all the Iraqis who came to the U.S. while we were still imposing the no-fly zones? Or were we not enemies? Is there a statute of limitations that exempts all the current government officials from prosectution?

All this wisdom from a country where people still wipe their ass with their bare hands. Thanks for the ticket on the clue bus Accckkmed.

re: #115 WrathofG-d

Too true.

re: #152 Jeff S.

Oh well. You can put lipstick on an Islamic nation, but in the end...

Well we know its not a tasty pig.

Dang. I guess that beacon of democracy in the ME is going to need a little more work. Not to give up yet though.

On a lighter note, this brouhaha reminds me of an oldie but goodie when representatives David Bonior, Jim McDermott, and Mike Thompson made a frowned upon journey.

Only Bonior and McDermott are immortalized, however. Saddammy cannot be reached for comment.

re: #154 Lynn B.

What is interesting to me is how the PLO has been able to achieve getting their goal (Post-1967 land), but also add in the goals of the other Arab states (ie: Demand of Return (aka: destruction of Israel), Jerusalem, etc.).

This will allow the Arab states to get their goals accomplished without having to give anything up. (acceptance of Israel's right to exist, Peace treaties, etc.)

The negotiations between Israel and the PLO are going perfectly according to the PLO PHASED PLAN.

Re comments on Choudhury [corrected spelling] -- look at the links feature under politics. There is plenty of material there about that reveals Obama's non-concern for this brave and endangered man.

re: #1 rawmuse

For this we spent our blood and treasure? Gah!

SURPRISED!?

Troops home now.

No blood for anti-Semites.

re: #22 The Other Les

I think GWB needs to explain a few things to them. And he bring along a few gentlemen with baseball bats to provide some reinforcement of the message.

I don't think they give a damn what GWB has to say. They can't wait for the US to leave and I think we should accommodate them.

re: #13 Doda McCheesle

And how many Americans are now dead giving these "friends" of ours "freedom"?

I was just going to ask that question, I have supported our troops and the mission. Now I'm thinking the time may well be right to...

Mithal al-Alusi is a hero. He is mentioned in this anti-Biden article.

[...]"’Secular Sunni parliamentarian Mithal al-Alusi held a news conference in Baghdad to call on the Iraqi government to formally declare Mr. Biden "a persona non grata" in Iraq. As for Iraq’s neighbors, The Gulf Cooperation Council and the Arab League both denounced the Biden resolution."’[...]

If you feel the same way re Biden *spit* that I do? Please read the article.

And Mr. al-Malusi lost 2 sons for his courage in going to Israel earlier:

[..]At this time of his visit, al-Alusi's family began receiving threats and went into hiding in order to avoid assassination attempts. Five months after al-Alusi returned to Iraq, two anonymous gunmen shot down his two sons (aged 22 and 30) outside their home, shouting "this is a punishment for your visit to Israel."

About a year ago, two Sunnis were arrested on suspicion of committing the crime and admitted to having been paid $500 each by Iraq's former culture minister, Asaad al-Hashemi, to take out al Alusi's sons. Al-Hashemi fled to Syria pursuant to their arrest and is thought to be living there under a false identity.[...]

I wish that there was some way for the U.S. to bring him and his remaining family here, to freedom. I fear for their lives.

On Friday, a Baghdad court found al-Hashemi responsible in absentia for the death of al-Alusi's sons. He has been sentenced to death by hanging, said Abdul Satar Birqadr, a spokesman for Iraq's High Judicial Council.

re: #163 Dustyvet

This really goes to what Democracy means. Does it mean that the citizenry has the right to chose their own future and have a government that represents their desires...or does it mean a Westernized State that agrees with the U.S.?

I always believed it meant the former, but hoped it would also mean the latter. The letter however was never promised, nor could it be.

These people have the same right as we do as American's to have a government that represents their will....it is too bad however that their will is such a disgusting one.

re: #27 Ringo the Gringo

I would like to thank Mithal al-Alusi for making the trip to Israel.

I'm sure he knew that it would get him into trouble.

Maybe he did it to try to change things in Iraq. I hope that's the case, and that he can make the case for changing things.

re: #95 yma o hyd

Hamsters are tired? Hungry? Thirsty? On strike?

They're doing a work slowdown in solidarity with the Boeing Machinists' Union.

re: #163 Dustyvet

I was just going to ask that question, I have supported our troops and the mission. Now I'm thinking the time may well be right to...

I'm afraid I agree!
Tribal mentallity + ROP = We may have wasted our time and
military.
Look at any country divided by TRIBES and EXTREME Religous
leaders and your looking at....Chad,Ethiopia,Kenya,......
These aren't third world countries ...it's more like fifth or sixth world.........Death ,murder and starvation from border to border!
In the 100's of thousands!

Mithal al-Alusi is a hero. He is mentioned in this anti-Biden article.

There have been a lot of Iraqi heroes. Many have died. More will continue, and God Willing / Insha'Allah, they will prevail.

We all think that WE are dissapointed with the Iraqis....Imagine if you were THIS guy!

Jewish Chaplain Shulman Writes About His Experience in Iraq, And Jewish Soldiers Fighting For Iraq's Liberation & Freedom.

The problem is that Iraqis are Arab and all Arabs must hate Israel(it's an Arab thing).
Arabs harbour grudges, especially having been thrashed and humiliated so many times by the Israelis and probably many more times in the future.
Common sense and reality are not part of current Arab culture.
BTW it's amusing that spellcheck highlighted my spelling of "harbour".
When I've suggested to Arab aquaintances, that they dump Islam and recognise Israel ;they tell me it's impossible(but concede that world peace would improve if such an event were to happen.)

re: #170 WrathofG-d

We all think that WE are dissapointed with the Iraqis....Imagine if you were THIS guy!
Jewish Chaplain Shulman Writes About His Experience in Iraq, And Jewish Soldiers Fighting For Iraq's Liberation & Freedom.

////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////
It is so very gratifying to learn that Jews are at least considered worthy enough to give their precious lives in the cause of liberating and improving the lives of the great Iraqi people.
////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////

This is why we need to stick with our principles when dealing with countries. This is why, when liberating a country we need to make sure that they don't accidentally slip backwards. Say 14 centuries backward.

There are few, very very few, precious lights of intelligence, moderation, and sobriety in the arab and islamic world. They need to be encouraged to take leadership.

Unfortunately for those societies, moderation and intelligence are considered weakness, and often expunged. This is wrong, and sad.

The reaction of the Iraqi government is not unexpected. It does show the futility of expending our lives and the lives of our brave men and women for an intolerant society, incapable of ever escaping the mental shackles that they so joyfully lust for.

re: #100 Racer X

Bunch of right wing hater fascists.

/ / / /

Four sarcs? An even number of sarcs cancel each other out, meaning you were serious!

re: #174 so.cal.swede What does sarc mean?

so, what are the odds one of these guys is a sunny and the other's a shitty- or however they spell it today

re: #35 Clio

If you could find me a reliable reference for that, I might be able to change a few votes.

I tried myself but was unable to find one (limited time).

Somewhere, sometime (after 20 January 2008), there needs to be a rigorous, and relentless discussion among those who truly love freedom of why the Bush Administration (no doubt encouraged by the Dhimmified Department of State careerists) pre-emptively made both Iraq and Afghanistan "Shari'a-safe" by having that odious system WRITTEN INTO their new Constitutions.

I have supported the war on terrorists. I do not support spilling American blood and spending American treasure to create Islamic states.

These policies will have to be carried by President Bush as part of his "almost" legacy -- almost great legacy.

He seemed to come up one cojone short most of the time -- not a Carter, but also not a Teddy Roosevelt, by any means.

B-b-but, I thought the iraqis are just like us.

Or are they just like some of us? **cough..leftists...cough**

re: #82 David Simon

That rule would wipe out half the UN.

And the problem with that would be...?

Great, juuust great. Way to give us that "you wasted a lot of effort" feeling, guys.

I really don't want to start thinking "uncivilizable", but stuff like this makes it difficult.

Hey, we had a race to the moon which we won.

Were the moon race to take place today, litigation and dueling bureaucracies would've killed it stone dead, sadly.

Interestingly, it's the same thing that's killing energy independence.

These Iraqi politicians remind me of those crazed Southern members of Congress from half a century back who would become absolutely apoplectic at the thought of civil rights for blacks. This ingrained, reflexive kind of "enemy" thinking is generally the last sort of prejudice to vanish, once the underlying causes are removed - not the ostensible fear of the object hated, but rather the excessive pride and humiliation experienced by the hater in his life and displaced upon a "safe" object, one that is unlikely to kill him as a result.

I would guess there is a lot more to the story. Maybe he was supposed to launder a few trunk loads of their embezzled cash during his trip to Israel and "lost" it .

No surprise here. The question was never whether we could turn a nation of pigs in to decent human beings, just whether we could turn them away from supporting and participating in mass murder.

GWB and Co. made a promise to the American people that he would hunt down terrorists wherever they hid. He made his statement "Are you with us or against us?" First he went to Musharraff. He chose to be "with us" thus avoiding the overwhelming aerial onslaught which was soon to to begin the process of the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Two countries two choices. Then came Saddam. "Are you with us or against us?" Ok. Against. As a continuation of the new Middle East strategy in this time of war, the US forces overwhelmed the Iraqi's. A magnificent show of military mastery. The air assault and the march to Baghdad were terrific military moves. Possibly one of the greatest examples of military victory ever. At this point the US military is feared and positioned to the East and West of Iran. The obvious next move. Right then and there. Iran "are you with us or against us" Syria, "are you with us or against us"? One after the other. Instead Clintonian "nation building". No billions on building democracy, simply a systematic, nation by nation, big stick diplomacy. This at the height of military success. This was the plan, no? I was convinced it was, and excited by the prospect of the ultimatum and or military overthrow of the most immediate threats. Iran, Syria, Iraq. Then I thought the plan was to turn to our allies the Saudis and Egyptians, and at this point, feared and respected in the Arab world, ask the same question. "Are you with us or against us?" The Saudi Wahhabist's provide immense material and financial support to terrorist organizations, and use our own freedom's to infiltrate our Universities, Govt and any other institution they can. Now I don't put this all on the Executive branch, however at the time of the invasion of Iraq, the House and Senate were in Republican hands no?

I think GW blinked. This situation just sucks. The alternative, I believe, should have been a clear explanation to the American people that we are about to fight a war on several fronts if necessary. No WMD discussion. No Democracy for the Muslim world. A half wit should have known that Islam and Democracy are diametrically opposed. Sharia Law.

I hope McCain can get us back on track.

To those who were attacked by my day one Palin comments. I apologize. I was wrong. I was having a very bad day, and yes I fully understand this forum is a place for all of us. I took things far too personally.