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Israel Chooses a New Prime Minister

World | Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 8:00:00 pm PDT

The next Israeli prime minister will be Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni.

TEL AVIV (Reuters) - Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni was set to be Israel’s next prime minister after a comfortable victory on Wednesday in a party leadership election to choose a replacement for Ehud Olmert.

“The good guys won,” the former corporate lawyer and one-time Mossad intelligence agent told supporters within the ruling centrist Kadima party after exit polls gave her a clear margin over retired general Shaul Mofaz, the transport minister.

Palestinian peace negotiators — and possibly the sponsors of the peace process in Washington — were among those applauding as official results began to confirm a win for Livni, who has led talks with the Palestinians this year.

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516 comments

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1 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:01:38pm

Zippy the Prime Minister?

2 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:02:52pm

This one have a spine?

3 bigpinkfluffybunny  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:03:05pm

Yeah, but.....who's looking after her children?

4 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:03:37pm

Previously just a small town mayor
/

5 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:04:35pm

Nu...is this good for the Jews?

6 paint-right  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:05:07pm

skirts or pantsuits?

/must know

7 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:06:06pm

Can't they just say that Arik Sharon has the job and get Mrs Woodrow Wilson to communicate with him?

8 aaron  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:06:16pm

I had the pleasure of hearing her speak once - up close and personal, not video - and was duly impressed.

We could do worse - and have.

9 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:06:21pm

So the party elected her? Why doesn't the public have a say?

10 aunursa  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:06:43pm
Palestinian peace negotiators — and possibly the sponsors of the peace process in Washington — were among those applauding as official results began to confirm a win for Livni, who has led talks with the Palestinians this year.

I don't know anything about her. But if they're applauding -- that's bad news.

11 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:07:13pm
Palestinian peace negotiators — and possibly the sponsors of the peace process in Washington — were among those applauding as official results began to confirm a win for Livni, who has led talks with the Palestinians this year.

Well- that doesn't sound real promising.

12 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:07:32pm

She killed farfur. I like her

13 pegcity  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:08:07pm

and i used to think representative democracies were the way to go.

14 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:09:11pm

So what does that mean? A bunch of guys smoking cigars and sipping brandy decided she was the man?

15 winston06  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:09:15pm

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

16 Silhouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:09:42pm

Funny how power changes hands peacefully in the "evil, warmongering" states, but always involves bloodshed among the peaceful olive growers of the world.

17 Sparkizzy  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:10:25pm

Cindy McCain just got the Duck of the Day... :(

18 Mich-again  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:11:23pm
Chief Palestinian negotiator Ahmed Qurie told Reuters: "Because Livni was immersed in the peace process, we believe she will pursue peace moves with us.

"We welcome the choice of the Israeli people."

This was a party leadership election, not an election of the Israeli people no? I'm not sure she really wants that endorsement.

19 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:11:50pm

To quote the Russian Cosmonaut of Armageddon,

"Is this good or bad?"

20 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:12:14pm

ot-sorry, but, WTF?

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

Those exceeding government limits - 33 1/2 inches for men and 35.4 inches for women, which are identical to thresholds established in 2005 for Japan by the International Diabetes Federation as an easy guideline for identifying health risks - and suffering from a weight-related ailment will be given dieting guidance if after three months they do not lose weight. If necessary, those people will be steered toward further re-education after six more months.

To reach its goals of shrinking the overweight population by 10 percent over the next four years and 25 percent over the next seven years, the government will impose financial penalties on companies and local governments that fail to meet specific targets. The Ministry of Health argues that the campaign will help check the spread of diseases like diabetes and strokes.

21 nigella  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:12:36pm

Former Mossad? Don't think she is exactly a push over...

22 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:14:11pm

A Lizard earlier called her an Olmert with less corruption.

23 Cognito  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:14:18pm

But can she field-dress a mossad?

/terrible pun

24 ciaospirit  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:14:26pm

OT but good.

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - The abuse-of-power investigation of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was unraveling Wednesday, with most key witnesses refusing to testify, new legal maneuvering and heightened Republican pressure to delay the probe until after Election Day.

25 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:14:29pm

Bad, vagaries of Israeli Parliamentary system. Ideally they would have an election but Kadima knows they'd lose so they pull this manuever to buy time and ram a peace deal through.

26 Alouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:15:00pm

No change, no hope, just Olmert with blonde hair.

27 Adina in Judea  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:15:14pm

Tzipi Livni has to form a new coalition or else there will be elections.

28 ciaospirit  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:15:20pm

re: #24 ciaospirit

Oops. Link for 24

29 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:16:12pm

Hey lizards, I took advantage of the last open registration to log on my neighbor wes from tex - here he is: That dog won't hunt-

turn

30 wishing  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:16:16pm

She was only elected to head up Kadima party...was NOT elected as PM

31 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:16:56pm

She bears a remarkable resemblance to my mother (when mom was younger).

And Israeli bloggers seem to think she's gonna be a lousy PM.

That's all I know.

32 attaboid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:16:57pm

I don't like it.

33 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:17:22pm

She was an agent with Mossad?

oooooohhhhhh, that is interesting.

34 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:17:28pm

Hopefully she will know where her priorities lie:

Kickstart fighter launch
Throttle set to full
Speed king race to win
Afterburners roaring

Ghostlike counterstrike
Takes them by surprise

Score 307
Israelis rule the heaven

Jordan attacks Israel crush that
Futile attempt
Control Jerusalem

Drive back surprise attack
Take the western wall
Next day make them pay
Over river Jordan

Syria last in line
Head for golan heights
Strike without a warning
See the Syria forces falling

Syria attacked Israel crushed their
Lines of defence
Ruling golan heights

6 days of fire 1 day of rest
June 67 taught them respect
Control Jerusalem

3 nations fallen in 6 days of war
Traitorous neighbors
Received as deserved
Under the sun in the dust of the war
1 nation standing stronger than before

First into Egypt and
Sent them to hell
Then returned their forces to Jordan
Climb up the mountains
Where Syria awaits
Break them in hours
Protect holy land

-Counterstrike Sabaton

35 yesandno  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:17:38pm

Can she make a coalition that works?

36 Ocho Uno  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:17:39pm

Well, I was hoping to have a nice, I-hate-Obama thread to make my first post on, but that's not how it worked out. How bout, I'm not tipsy over Tzipi?

37 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:18:31pm

re: #36 Ocho Uno

Well, I was hoping to have a nice, I-hate-Obama thread to make my first post on, but that's not how it worked out. How bout, I'm not tipsy over Tzipi?

terrell Owens ?

38 wolfie  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:18:37pm

re: #29 That dog won't hunt

Well hello, TDWH ! Love your nic! :)

39 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:19:57pm

re: #20 ggt

WTF? I was stationed in Japan for a year and I could say with confidence that 99% of the population was tiny compared to my weight and build, I was 5'10" and 155 lbs! I met only one guy who was 6'5" +200 lbs. Nice fellow, easy going spoke perfect English, like to tell jokes after a few beers. His only story was how he was teased for being a giant compared to his smaller Japanese classmates. But other than that a great guy.

40 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:20:09pm

re: #30 wishing

She was only elected to head up Kadima party...was NOT elected as PM

And with luck she won't stay as PM for long.

41 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:21:29pm

re: #2 jcm

This one have a spine?

No, and no more balls than Olmerde

42 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:21:42pm

OT:

Were any of the Palin hacked emails, where she was doing govt business or were they just personal emails?

43 attaboid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:21:53pm

Who is Terrell Owens ?
/seriously

44 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:21:55pm

Palestinian peace negotiators — and possibly the sponsors of the peace process in Washington — were among those applauding

This is good news?

45 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:22:13pm

re: #39 Idle Drifter

his only sad story PIMF

46 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:22:41pm

re: #39 Idle Drifter

I was just wondering how a Socialized Health care system in this country could give the waist-nazi's an opening most people don't realize it would give.

could you imagine?

47 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:22:46pm

re: #43 attaboid

a football player

48 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:22:49pm

re: #43 attaboid

Who is Terrell Owens ?
/seriously

The biggest diva to ever play pro-football.

49 Ocho Uno  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:22:53pm

re: #37 Shug

terrell Owens ?

I like that. But.. the year Reagan took office. Terrell or Reagan, not sure which is more colorful.

50 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:22:55pm

re: #43 attaboid

Who is Terrell Owens ?
/seriously

81

51 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:23:08pm

re: #42 Typicalwhitey

OT:

Were any of the Palin hacked emails, where she was doing govt business or were they just personal emails?

Personal.

52 sagamoregal  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:23:10pm

She scares me. She's another Olmert, IMO.

How much Jewish land will she turn over to the monsters? How many PLO prisoners will she free for nothing in return?


Golda Meir she ain't.

53 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:23:15pm

re: #20 ggt

ot-sorry, but, WTF?

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

Those exceeding government limits - 33 1/2 inches for men and 35.4 inches for women, which are identical to thresholds established in 2005 for Japan by the International Diabetes Federation as an easy guideline for identifying health risks - and suffering from a weight-related ailment will be given dieting guidance if after three months they do not lose weight. If necessary, those people will be steered toward further re-education after six more months.

To reach its goals of shrinking the overweight population by 10 percent over the next four years and 25 percent over the next seven years, the government will impose financial penalties on companies and local governments that fail to meet specific targets. The Ministry of Health argues that the campaign will help check the spread of diseases like diabetes and strokes.

The end of Sumo Wrestling.

54 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:23:27pm

re: #49 Ocho Uno

I like that. But.. the year Reagan took office. Terrell or Reagan, not sure which is more colorful.

Reagan won the big one

/ ouch !

55 Bacchus's daddy  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:23:43pm

I know next to nothing about her, but let's:

-Hack all her personal email accounts
-If she has children, investigate any female relatives who may have been single when she gave birth
-Spread any pictures from her teens/ early twenties all over the internet
-Call Charlie Gibson and suggest strategies with which he might underhandedly make her appear unknowledgable about foreign affairs.

OK. Im done.

56 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:23:48pm

Palin is the freaking bomb. And Biden is a freak of nature. I wished that the little kid would have taken his stupid ass out.

57 Ponch  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:24:32pm

re: #43 attaboid


Ocho Uno. (jk)

Dallas Cowboys Wide Receiver.

58 Ocho Uno  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:24:52pm

re: #54 Shug

Reagan won the big one

/ ouch !

Twice. Watch out though, Terrell might be reading this, and he might get his feelings hurt.

59 davinvalkri  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:24:59pm

"Palestinian peace negotiators — and possibly the sponsors of the peace process in Washington — were among those applauding as official results began to confirm a win for Livni, who has led talks with the Palestinians this year."

Should we worry?

60 Thanos  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:25:08pm

I don't know enough about Israeli's parties and politics to commnent on this coherently so I will instead read and learn.

/it's kinda sad that I know more about Pakistan than Israel just because I feel the need to watch our enemies closely...

61 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:25:13pm

The Economist opined that she'd be a great PM.

Which, given The Economist's stance on Israel, is probably bad news.

62 attaboid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:25:30pm

re: #50 Shug

I'm so out of the loop.

Thaqnk Ddurk Mather.

/idiot

63 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:25:45pm

Call me cynical, but any politician the Palis applaud doesnt exactly give me a tingly leg

64 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:25:49pm

re: #38 wolfie

Hey, I'm from Texas and I have no idea what TDWH means

65 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:25:56pm

re: #61 Occasional Reader

hubby minorind in Economics--he hates the Economist.

66 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:26:51pm

All personal but there was one in there from the Guard HQ complaining about "pressure from group" and saying "I will not rate."

67 Rancher  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:09pm

Where were the emails posted? DU? Laws have been broken.

68 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:12pm

re: #63 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Call me cynical, but any politician the Palis applaud doesnt exactly give me a tingly leg


Yep. I don't hear the bulldozers starting up any time soon

69 6pat6  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:26pm

re: #10 aunursa

Palestinian peace negotiators — and possibly the sponsors of the peace process in Washington — were among those applauding as official results began to confirm a win for Livni, who has led talks with the Palestinians this year.

I don't know anything about her. But if they're applauding -- that's bad news.

Remember, the muslims hate women being in charge of anything, much less being a PM of a nation. They may be applauding her because they see a female PM of Israel being weak, and that the Isreali electorate has become soft in seeing a woman become PM again.

I think, and pray, that they are proven dead wrong about Livni. I honestly know nothing about her, so she may be a strong defender of Israel, or an amoeba-spined PM like her predecessor. We'll have to see.

70 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:37pm

re: #64 That dog won't hunt

Hey, I'm from Texas and I have no idea what TDWH means

That Dog Wont Hunt

71 attaboid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:53pm

re: #50 Shug

That came out wrong. Sorry.

72 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:57pm

Israel needs a Hawk right now, not a little Dove. If this lady was trying to make peace with those Maniacs, then Israel's days may indeed be numbered and us right behind them.....Liberals will destroy us all if we let them.

73 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:27:58pm

re: #64 That dog won't hunt

Hey, I'm from Texas and I have no idea what TDWH means


It refers to a female member of PETA

74 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:28:09pm
led talks with the Palestinians this year

My head is shaking no.

75 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:28:11pm

re: #42 Typicalwhitey

OT:

Were any of the Palin hacked emails, where she was doing govt business or were they just personal emails?

PIMF my #66 was on this.

76 wright1  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:28:15pm

I only hope she will have some common sense to not give away the autonomy and control of the Temple Mount - this article painfully reminds us that overtures to Muslim extremists will never ever be respected as negotiation but rather quite simply as weakness.

[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

77 wishing  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:28:28pm

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

And with luck she won't stay as PM for long.

No kidding....she is our worst nightmare..second only to Olmert

78 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:29:12pm

re: #70 Typicalwhitey
doh!

79 Killian Bundy  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:29:29pm

re: #48 Sharmuta

The biggest diva to ever play pro-football.

/except for Ocho Cinco

80 wolfie  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:29:34pm

re: #64 That dog won't hunt

Hey, I'm from Texas and I have no idea what TDWH means

That dog won't hunt ! :D

81 6pat6  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:29:45pm

re: #30 wishing

She was only elected to head up Kadima party...was NOT elected as PM

OK...boy, did I misread the article, or what?

82 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:30:02pm

re: #48 Sharmuta

The biggest diva to ever play pro-football.

And also a very good Wide Receiver.

83 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:30:02pm

God Help Israel.

84 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:30:07pm

re: #41 Kosh's Shadow

No, and no more balls than Olmerde

Damn!

Where's Bibi?

85 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:30:11pm

re: #78 That dog won't hunt

i'm gonna get me an avatar and you guys w ont be dissapointed!

86 Adina in Judea  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:30:12pm

The Arabs in Judea and Samaria have good reasons to fear Shaul Mofaz (who ran against Tzipi Livni.) He was Defense Minister when the suicide bombings were reduced by 95% within a fairly short period of time several years ago.

87 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:30:23pm

re: #42 Typicalwhitey

OT:

Were any of the Palin hacked emails, where she was doing govt business or were they just personal emails?

So far the only one that was mentioned was between her and the Lt Governor commiserating back and forth about having to deal with the media. That sounds more personal than state business.

Even the hackers were disappointed.

88 Racer X  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:31:18pm

Zippy?

89 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:31:33pm

I demand to read Tzipi's personal emails!
I demand to know when she got her first passport!
I demand to know the sexual practices of her extended family!

/dKos

90 JacksonTn  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:31:36pm

re: #64 That dog won't hunt

Hey, I'm from Texas and I have no idea what TDWH means

Welcome - (T)hat (D)og (W)on't (H)unt

91 Silhouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:31:45pm

re: #86 Adina in Judea

The Arabs in Judea and Samaria have good reasons to fear Shaul Mofaz (who ran against Tzipi Livni.) He was Defense Minister when the suicide bombings were reduced by 95% within a fairly short period of time several years ago.

With a resume like that and he lost?

92 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:07pm

re: #87 Intrepid

So far the only one that was mentioned was between her and the Lt Governor commiserating back and forth about having to deal with the media. That sounds more personal than state business.

Even the hackers were disappointed.

Well, there was that email she got from the cousin of the Nigerian Finance Minister asking for her help.

93 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:15pm

re: #70 Typicalwhitey

Hey typicalwhitey turn had no idea that wes from tex had so much in common with you!

94 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:16pm

re: #86 Adina in Judea

The Arabs in Judea and Samaria have good reasons to fear Shaul Mofaz (who ran against Tzipi Livni.) He was Defense Minister when the suicide bombings were reduced by 95% within a fairly short period of time several years ago.

was the vote close?

95 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:16pm

The key to the coalition government is unfortunately the Shas party which is made up of ultra-orthodox fruitcakes. WSJ: The party is demanding a large increase in child-welfare benefits to stay in the coalition. Its leaders say they won't remain in or join any government that even discusses dividing Jerusalem in talks with the Palestinians. Those demands were repeated Wednesday.

These morons are the only people who can breed faster than the Palestinians and Africans. I am not anti-Jewish, however, we have some of these sort of folks up Boston way. They drive what can only be described as small buses to transport their gazillion kids. No birth control and no sex till the appropriate waiting period after their wife's menses which is optimum for conception. This is not on any new research, but is rather a practice based on traditions that are literally thousands of years old. Their price for the coalition is a shakedown to support their breeding. Too big a price to pay imo.

Again, please note that I am not against Jews, Israel or anything of the sort. Indeed, I support Israel and one of my sons has decided to adopt a middle of the road Jewish faith. However, I am against shakedowns.

96 Edouard  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:24pm

Must read about Tzipi Livni by the great Caroline Glick: "Mrs. Clean is a Fraud" (Sept. 16)

I learn so much from CG's articles and I'm not liking what I'm reading about Livni here.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni may not be a crook, but she is a fraud. And if polls are to be believed, Livni the fraud is just one fraudulent election away from becoming our next prime minister.

Her basic dishonesty is expressed both in her political maneuverings and in her behavior as a policymaker. In both areas, she upholds herself as Mrs. Clean - the servant of all of us who are sickened, demoralized and revolted by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his hordes of corrupt Kadima colleagues and staffers. But she is not our servant. Rather than serve us, like Olmert and her Kadima colleagues, she lies to us in a continuous bid to expand her power...

97 Silhouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:26pm

re: #89 karmic_inquisitor

I demand to read Tzipi's personal emails!
I demand to know when she got her first passport!
I demand to know the sexual practices of her extended family!

/dKos

Shouldn't she be at home with her kids?

98 Ocho Uno  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:26pm

re: #89 karmic_inquisitor

I demand to read Tzipi's personal emails!
I demand to know when she got her first passport!
I demand to know the sexual practices of her extended family!

/dKos

And when exactly did her water break?

99 6pat6  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:37pm

So, if she is a possible PM candidate from her party, who would be a likely candidate from the opposition, or an opposition coalition, does anyone know?

100 splat  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:39pm

"Palestinian peace negotiators " ? That sounds like an oxymoron.

So these must be the "Palestinians" who only want to deport all the Jews from Israel as opposed to killing all of them ?

I think we need to seriously look at what each side in this considers to be 'peace'. I have the sneaking suspicion for Israeli's it is "no more killing us" and for the so called "Palestinians" it's "no more Jews to kill".

101 Adina in Judea  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:32:42pm

re: #88 Racer X

Zippy?

Actually, her name Tzipora means bird in Hebrew.

So, "Tzipi" means (essentially) "Birdie."

102 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:33:02pm

re: #67 Rancher

Where were the emails posted? DU? Laws have been broken.

There's a post with a link on the front page of LGF.

103 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:33:07pm

brb: Captain Crunch break....

104 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:33:08pm

Q: How many Obamatons does it take to invade your privacy?

A: Just one if you elect him.

105 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:33:20pm

re: #64 That dog won't hunt

Hey, I'm from Texas and I have no idea what TDWH means

One definition that I can live with.

I have also heard a similar but not equivalent meaning. Somewhere along the lines of "that's a weak argument" or "that's a dumb idea".

106 jayzee  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:33:47pm

I prefer BiBi to Mofaz and Mofaz to Livni. Livni aint horrible though. That being said the pollsters that crowned her victorious are the same ones that had Perez win against Bibi too. I say it aint done yet.

107 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:33:59pm

re: #97 Silhouette

Shouldn't she be at home with her kids?

Yeah- where do these women get off thinking they can have a career and a family?

108 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:34:26pm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

109 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:34:27pm

re: #101 Adina in Judea

Actually, her name Tzipora means bird in Hebrew.

So, "Tzipi" means (essentially) "Birdie."


"Birdie"?...God Help Israel.

110 Shug  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:34:44pm
What are your thoughts on the Olmert Doctrine ?

-Charlie

/stand up Chuck , let em see you

111 Silhouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:34:45pm

re: #95 Shr_Nfr

The party is demanding a large increase in child-welfare benefits to stay in the coalition.

That's blackmail

Its leaders say they won't remain in or join any government that even discusses dividing Jerusalem in talks with the Palestinians.

That's good sense.

IMHO

112 chicagodudewhotrades  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:35:04pm

I want to go off-topic for a minute and talk about something that came to my attention today. I spend more time in the lounge then here on the threads, but some lizards have been expressing concern about my financial health due to all the market swings lately. Yes, I am a day-trader and yes my stock portfolio has taken a small hit , but nothing massive and ruinous. In fact, I have been on the stock-trading sidelines the last few weeks because I know that conditions like this usually cause more losses then gains. I just wanted to say that I am truly touched that fellow lizards would express this much concern for someone they have never meet ( I have only meet about 5 lizards in person). this concern means a great deal to me. I think this concern is a reflection on Charles, the great site he has built, and the wonderful people this site attracts. Again, thanks for your concern for me.

CDWT

113 loggiedog  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:35:15pm

Not sure I trust her. I hope this is just for a short time until the Likud takes over. This is just an immediate temporary replacement for Olmert, right? I mean I was in Israel 3 weeks ago and saw no signs for real elections. I figured I'd have seen Likud and other party flags all over the place but I didn't. This must just be temporary. I hope it is. This Kadima Party is more like the Democratic Party. "Change!" I.e. give up everything for nothing.

114 Adina in Judea  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:35:23pm

re: #94 Maximu§

The Arabs in Judea and Samaria have good reasons to fear Shaul Mofaz (who ran against Tzipi Livni.) He was Defense Minister when the suicide bombings were reduced by 95% within a fairly short period of time several years ago.

was the vote close?

Very, very close, it seems. A little over 1%.

115 wright1  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:35:30pm

Equally amazing and frustrating is that the same liberal political block that exists in Israel is in denial in this country as well

116 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:35:37pm

re: #92 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Well, there was that email she got from the cousin of the Nigerian Finance Minister asking for her help.

Heh - did she get any from herbal drug cooperatives guaranteeing that she could see real Penis growth if she'd just buy a 3-month supply of their capsules?

117 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:36:21pm

re: #114 Adina in Judea

Very, very close, it seems. A little over 1%.


Sounds like Israel is split right down the middle, just like here in America.

118 rawmuse  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:36:55pm

re: #108 jcm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

Reaaly, jcm, you are such a relic. Don't you know we are all supposed to get along, and negotiate? Daisies in the rifle barrels, etc. All we are saaaaaaaaying, is give Peace a chaaaaaaaaance.... everybody!

/do I really need one?

119 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:37:59pm

re: #78 That dog won't hunt

doh!

Do you know what this one means?

yoU ReAlly Didnt Understand My Message trulY?

120 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:38:01pm

re: #118 rawmuse

Reaaly, jcm, you are such a relic. Don't you know we are all supposed to get along, and negotiate? Daisies in the rifle barrels, etc. All we are saaaaaaaaying, is give Peace a chaaaaaaaaance.... everybody!

/do I really need one?

ROFL, thanks I needed that!

Relic, I like that!

121 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:38:11pm

re: #108 jcm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

They need soundbites to help them remember. After all, we're fighting the 60's here.

122 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:38:19pm

re: #118 rawmuse

Reaaly, jcm, you are such a relic. Don't you know we are all supposed to get along, and negotiate? Daisies in the rifle barrels, etc. All we are saaaaaaaaying, is give Peace a chaaaaaaaaance.... everybody!

/do I really need one?

Just in case,

SLAP!

123 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:38:24pm

re: #117 Maximu§

Sounds like Israel is split right down the middle, just like here in America.

Well, except that the Californians are not launching rockets at Texas. Yet.

124 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:38:26pm

re: #95 Shr_Nfr

I am not Israeli but I believe that the drain of supporting the Haredi is driving a wedge in the country. They use educational exemptions to go to Yeshiva and avoid the Army that almost every other Israeli serves in, for Arabs it is voluntary, Jews and Druze compulsory.

125 Adina in Judea  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:38:47pm

re: #117 Maximu§

Very, very close, it seems. A little over 1%.

Sounds like Israel is split right down the middle, just like here in America.

This was a primary within one party (Kadima) only.

If Livni can't form a coalition (government) with Kadima leading it, then there will be elections in Israel so that the whole nation can choose a party to lead and form a government instead.

126 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:39:04pm

re: #119 Typicalwhitey

Do you know what this one means?

yoU ReAlly Didnt Understand My Message trulY?

Awa tagu siam

127 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:39:29pm

re: #90 JacksonTn

THIS.........DOG.........WONT..........HUNT
.........HOW YALL DOING
PALIN ROCKS

128 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:39:44pm

She's not a general, has no military experience, but more than anything else, she sorta agrees with Olmert.

Yuck.

129 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:39:44pm

re: #108 jcm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

Because people in the post cold war industrialized west have been taught a false history. Because that false history tells those educated in it that we live in a benign world of goodwill with one actor messing things up - the USA. Because the middle east outpost of this bad behavior of the USA is Israel. Because, according to this "history" Israel sits on stolen land just like the United States.

Look at the demographics - people who entered high school after the end of the cold war are for Obama in large numbers.

That is the "history" they were taught and that they are now acting on.

Bill Ayers - what a guy.

130 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:40:12pm

re: #126 OldLineTexan

Awa tagu siam

Smile when you say that.

131 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:40:40pm

re: #127 That dog won't hunt

Who let the dogs out....

132 David Simon  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:40:52pm

re: #21 nigella

Former Mossad? Don't think she is exactly a push over...

Golda Meir told the King of Jordan to go fuck himself. This one will tell...er, nevermind.

133 pink freud  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:41:10pm

If I recall correctly, at one of the Middle East pow-wows with the Arab bigwigs hosted by Condi Rice, Livni had to enter through the service entrance so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the gathered esteemed.

134 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:41:14pm

re: #127 That dog won't hunt

Did you get my message #119?

135 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:41:19pm

re: #112 chicagodudewhotrades

Good to hear. Wish I had gone to the sidelines. Held and now scratching my head. Not a panic seller, but getting a little concerned.

136 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:41:30pm

re: #123 OldLineTexan

Well, except that the Californians are not launching rockets at Texas. Yet.

Ain't gonna happen, do you have any idea what the carbon footprint of a rocket is?

137 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:41:36pm

re: #130 MandyManners

Smile when you say that.

If I had earrings, they'd be banging on my eyeteeth I'm grinnin' so big.

138 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:41:53pm

re: #131 jcm

Who let the dogs out....

Curse you.

139 rawmuse  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:09pm

re: #122 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Ow!

140 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:16pm

re: #137 OldLineTexan

OK what did it say?

141 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:41pm

re: #138 MandyManners

Curse you.

Not 70's enough for you?

142 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:41pm

re: #112 chicagodudewhotrades

{ChiDude}- glad to hear you're okay.

143 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:42pm

re: #136 CyanSnowHawk

Ain't gonna happen, do you have any idea what the carbon footprint of a rocket is?

They have credits, man! CREDITS! Game OVER, MAN!

144 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:46pm

re: #137 OldLineTexan

If I had earrings, they'd be banging on my eyeteeth I'm grinnin' so big.

I cannot imagine you with an earring.

145 Idle Drifter  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:54pm

re: #46 ggt

Waist Nazis, PeTA, Smoker Nazis, Health Nazis, and possibly people pushing for more euthanasia.

146 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:42:57pm

re: #108 jcm

I posted a good quote in the spin-offs, I think< that covers your question.

147 Crux Australis  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:07pm

Anyone know when the next general elections in Israel are to be held?

At least she's better than Olmert. I think.

148 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:16pm

Hey Trump is endorsing BigMac

149 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:23pm

re: #134 Typicalwhitey

yea i did thank you!

150 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:24pm

re: #141 cliffster

Not 70's enough for you?

It's on an endless loop in my mind now.

151 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:26pm

re: #131 jcm

Who let the dogs out....

Duh! Sarah Palin.

152 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:32pm

re: #136 CyanSnowHawk

Ain't gonna happen, do you have any idea what the carbon footprint of a rocket is?

Yes - we will attack with massive slingshots firing cabbages.

153 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:32pm

re: #140 Typicalwhitey

OK what did it say?

Yours was dummy.

Mine was an ancient campfire chant performed by noobs for generations.

154 Biff  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:43pm

"Israel" did not choose a new Prime Minister, a plurality of Kadima Party members did (and that isn't much). And she won't even be Prime Minister unless and until 1) Olmert actually resigns, and 2) Livni can put together a new coalition. Even if she does, as soon as Kadima/Fatah announce they are discussing Jerusalem, the government will fall.

Of course, if she successfully bombs Iran, they may let her stay.

155 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:43:57pm

I CAN'T SLEEP

156 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:44:32pm

re: #144 MandyManners

I cannot imagine you with an earring.

Hence the IF. I am not into having slackers drive spikes into my body parts.

157 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:44:33pm

re: #149 That dog won't hunt

yea i did thank you!

Thank you?
Are you sure you read it?

158 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:44:54pm

re: #148 Typicalwhitey

Hey Trump is endorsing BigMac

Really? A Rothschild convert, perhaps?

159 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:44:55pm

re: #155 WriterMom

I CAN'T SLEEP

No one can when she's shouting.

What's up?

160 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:23pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

Really? A Rothschild convert, perhaps?

Is this a domino effect?

161 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:26pm

re: #155 WriterMom

I CAN'T SLEEP

you want a blankie?

162 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:37pm

re: #111 Silhouette

No argument on the second point.

I would be astounded if such an ultra-orthodox group would join a coalition run by a woman. I know that if you are a woman and go into the Jewish bookstore in Brookline run by Eli the Ganiff, the guys behind the counter will not even talk to you and certainly will not touch you. You might be having your period and all you know and it would render them "unclean".

Would it be my choice, they would all be strangled by the string around their own eruv. (Kidding actually, I wish nobody ill not even these idiots.)

163 aaron's rantblog  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:46pm
164 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:51pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

Really? A Rothschild convert, perhaps?

Not sure about that, but he knows where his money is going if BHO is elected.

165 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:52pm

re: #129 karmic_inquisitor

The funny thing is I'm Obama's age.

But, my parents were missionaries. I grew up in a third world dictatorship, Iran, I saw it up close and personal for years. I met victims of Communism, listened to first person stories of the Gulag's at my dinner table.

*sigh* The left has done a marvelous job toward their ends for 40 years. In many ways I feet this election is an inflection point.

Proud to be a bitter clingy relic!

166 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:45:58pm

re: #117 Maximu§

Sounds like Israel is split right down the middle, just like here in America.

Israel has more parties; they're split more like a jigsaw puzzle.

167 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:46:10pm

re: #147 Crux Australis

It would be hard to be otherwise.

168 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:46:26pm

re: #159 MandyManners

Work anxiety unfortunately. Made lunches, cleaned up and still can't sleep. This is waaaaay past my bedtime.

169 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:46:39pm

re: #131 jcm
awesome!

170 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:46:42pm

Uzi Landau, come out of retirement.

171 laZardo  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:46:55pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

Nah, just the usual cabal of elite capitalist imperialists doing what they normally do...

/

172 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:46:58pm

re: #146 ggt

I posted a good quote in the spin-offs, I think< that covers your question.

Yep!

173 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:47:05pm

re: #108 jcm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

Yeah, too many people operate from the faulty premise that "we shouldn't sink to the level of our enemy". I say try diplomacy once, when it fails, then a good old-fashioned asskicking is in order.

174 JacksonTn  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:47:15pm

More money endorsing McCain Trump that Obama.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

175 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:47:19pm

re: #161 Maximu§

Sure!

176 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:47:29pm

re: #164 CyanSnowHawk

Not sure about that, but he knows where his money is going if BHO is elected.

He seems like a Clintonite. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a male PUMA.

177 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:47:46pm

re: #156 OldLineTexan

Hence the IF. I am not into having slackers drive spikes into my body parts.

I am growing some trendy chin hair, though.

178 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:48:27pm

re: #160 MandyManners

Is this a domino effect?

He announced on Larry King

don't understand why Hillary wasn't chosen [for vice president],” Trump said. “ She was really winning. I have a friend that came to this country and was here for the last four weeks of that whole election. He said: How did she lose? She won every primary? He didn't understand it.

“The fact is, that Obama went limping across the finish line. He should have chosen Hillary, It would have been a much different race, I believe. Right now, it looks to me like McCain is probably winning.”

179 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:48:28pm

re: #173 Kreuzueber Halbmond

fight fire with fire!

180 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:48:42pm

re: #176 Sharmuta

He seems like a Clintonite. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a male PUMA.

That's what I read. He switched from Hillary support. Donated to her and McCain. I think he understands Barack.

181 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:48:48pm

re: #174 JacksonTn

More money endorsing McCain Trump that Obama.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Yep- he's a Clintonite:

Trump, never shy with his opinions, went on to say that McCain appears to be winning, and that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) should have chosen Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) as his running mate.

PUMA, Baby!

182 Miss Molly  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:49:21pm

What kind of a test will the extremeist have in store for her?

183 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:49:25pm

re: #175 WriterMom

Sure!

~pats my lap~

C'mere and tell Uncle Max all about it...

184 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:49:55pm

Still trying to figure it out oh wise dog that won't hunt?

LOL

185 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:50:14pm

"Let's screw the rich people," Obama says as he goes to California and puts his nose into the collective asshole of Beverly Hills. On the day that most of use lost thousands of dollars out of our retirement. But McCain doesn't get it. Glad you feel our pain, Barack.

186 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:50:46pm

re: #10 aunursa

I don't know anything about her. But if they're applauding -- that's bad news.

Exactly. Any PM that has the Palis or appeasers applauding is Olmert II.

What the hell is there that she could offer anyway other than to lead her people into the sea so the Palis don't have to that would secure "peace" anyway?

Israel needs to DEFEAT the Palis, drive Hamas/Fatah into UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER, and then talk peace.

187 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:51:06pm

re: #185 cliffster

"Let's screw the rich people," Obama says as he goes to California and puts his nose into the collective asshole of Beverly Hills. On the day that most of use lost thousands of dollars out of our retirement. But McCain doesn't get it. Glad you feel our pain, Barack.

He wouldn't allow the press in for that event.

Wonder why.........
/

188 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:51:47pm

re: #173 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Yeah, too many people operate from the faulty premise that "we shouldn't sink to the level of our enemy". I say try diplomacy once, when it fails, then a good old-fashioned asskicking is in order.

Awhile back some caller on Hannity said he would stop a women from being raped even if he had the means. He was so opposed to violence.

I think that describes it all.

189 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:51:53pm

re: #183 Maximu§

LOL.

Flirt.

190 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:52:07pm

re: #187 Typicalwhitey

He wouldn't allow the press in for that event.

Wonder why.........
/

Doesn't want America to know he is under the control of the Film Actors Guild.

191 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:52:33pm

Oh, you just have to see this! Lynne Forrester de Rothschild rips Wolfe Blizer and the liberal dems a new one!

On Gatewaypundit

192 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:53:34pm

Memo to US Secret Service: Net proxy may pinpoint Palin email hackers

Memo to law enforcement investigators tracking down who broke into Sarah Palin's Yahoo email account: Gabriel Ramuglia might be a good place to start.

The 25-year-old webmaster and entrepreneur is the operator of Ctunnel.com, the browsing proxy service used by the group that hacked into the vice presidential candidate's personal email account and exposed its contents to the world. While he has yet to examine his logs, he says there's a good chance they will lead to those responsible, thanks to some carelessness on their part.

"Usually, this sort of thing would be hard to track down because it's Yahoo email, and a lot of people use my service for that," he told El Reg in a phone interview. "Since they were dumb enough to post a full screenshot that showed most of the [Ctunnel.com] URL, I should be able to find that in my log."

Ramuglia got into the proxy business a few years ago, after schools began blocking access to an online game site he used to co-own. Pretty soon, people began using the proxy service to access YouTube, Gmail, MySpace, and dozens of other sites that are routinely blocked by IT departments.

To prevent abuse of the service - such as the occasional bomb threat or other illegal act that's been known to happen - Ramuglia logs each user's IP address, along with the time and web destination. That often isn't enough to track down people who access extremely popular websites. But in this case, the perpetrators included a whole string of random-looking characters when posting screenshots of Palin's hacked account. That will probably be enough for him to pinpoint the proverbial needle in the haystack.

193 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:53:34pm

Uh ohhhh.......

Memo to US Secret Service: Net proxy may pinpoint Palin email hackers

By Dan Goodin in San Francisco
Posted in Security, 18th September 2008 01:22 GMT

Memo to law enforcement investigators tracking down who broke into Sarah Palin's Yahoo email account: Gabriel Ramuglia might be a good place to start.

The 25-year-old webmaster and entrepreneur is the operator of Ctunnel.com, the browsing proxy service used by the group that hacked into the vice presidential candidate's personal email account and exposed its contents to the world. While he has yet to examine his logs, he says there's a good chance they will lead to those responsible, thanks to some carelessness on their part.

"Usually, this sort of thing would be hard to track down because it's Yahoo email, and a lot of people use my service for that," he told El Reg in a phone interview. "Since they were dumb enough to post a full screenshot that showed most of the [Ctunnel.com] URL, I should be able to find that in my log."


[Link: www.theregister.co.uk...]

SOMEONE is crying in moms basement right now.......

194 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:53:40pm

re: #148 Typicalwhitey

Hey Trump is endorsing BigMac

Woot! We got the bad comb over demographic now!

195 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:53:42pm

re: #165 jcm

Ahhh-I thought you were Persian, but now I get it. So your parents were American missionaries posted to Iran?

196 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:54:28pm

re: #192 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

GMTA!

197 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:54:34pm

re: #192 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Cool.

198 tommygum  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:54:37pm

I am a self-confessed gentile, armchair historian, and, because of that, a supporter of Israel. Maybe because of the underdog thing (I AM an American, after all), I've always pulled for them. I am, sorta-kinda religious and am aware that the Jews are G*d's chosen people, and that He will always still the hand of those who seek to destroy them. Having said that, I hope Livni will be a positive development on the Israeli political scene. I bow to the knowledge of the Israeli lizards, but I just wanna tell ya I'm with ya.

199 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:54:51pm

re: #168 WriterMom

Work anxiety unfortunately. Made lunches, cleaned up and still can't sleep. This is waaaaay past my bedtime.

Are the moonbats getting out of hand again?

200 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:54:58pm

re: #188 jcm

Awhile back some caller on Hannity said he would stop a women from being raped even if he had the means. He was so opposed to violence.

I think that describes it all.

You mean wouldn't stop a rape?

201 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:55:07pm

re: #189 WriterMom

LOL.

Flirt.

Just teasing ya....~tosses blankie~

202 Age Of Freedom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:55:19pm

It's not at Israel choosing her.
It's just registered voters in Kadima, ONLY.

It's yet another indifferent opportunist party that was proven to be worse than the other two as far as doing nothing, but making sure Israel's deterrence power is deteriorating.

IMO, Tzipi Livni is the female version of Olmert. She won't be able to endure the unbelievable pressure as a prime minister of this challenging state.

203 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:55:31pm

re: #198 tommygum

Up ding for that post.

This Jew-with Israeli family-appreciates it.

204 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:55:42pm

re: #195 WriterMom

Ahhh-I thought you were Persian, but now I get it. So your parents were American missionaries posted to Iran?

Yeah, 10 years.

205 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:55:50pm

re: #194 Intrepid

Woot! We got the bad comb over demographic now!

Actually this is the second big money player, in two days, that was for Hillary and is now for McCain.
Gives more PUMA cover imo.

206 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:56:13pm

re: #199 MandyManners

It's one moonbat and one derranged supervisor. Seriously whack stuff.

207 finallyhere  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:56:32pm

If she really manages to form a Government it will mean that Israelis had managed to find Prime Minister even worse than Olmert.

Let's pray she never becomes PM.

208 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:56:42pm

re: #201 Maximu§

You give up so easily!

209 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:56:46pm

OT - turnspawn2 is commenting for wes from tex tonight - having a great time ... shit I can't even type right now.
..
turn

PS you are going to love bub

210 JacksonTn  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:56:48pm

Obama with Babs part 1.

211 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:57:06pm

re: #176 Sharmuta

He seems like a Clintonite. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a male PUMA.

Male PUMAs should be called "PUMAN".

Heh.

212 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:57:07pm

re: #204 jcm

Neat.

Do you like gondi?

213 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:57:20pm

re: #188 jcm

Awhile back some caller on Hannity said he would stop a women from being raped even if he had the means. He was so opposed to violence.

I think that describes it all.

You mean he would'nt stop a rape? IMO, that guy should get 1/2 the jail time the rapists gets....in fact put them in the same cell.

214 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:57:29pm

Elections with so much at stake make me think of Groundskeeper Willie running for mayor.

"If elected mayor, mah fairst act, will be ta kill tha whole lot o' ya, and bair-r-r-n yer town to cinders!"

Willie is an Arab at heart, I think.

215 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:57:47pm

re: #200 EIDE_Interface

You mean wouldn't stop a rape?

No the turd wouldn't. Even if he had the means.
My book he's not even a man.

216 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:57:58pm

re: #211 Intrepid

Male PUMAs should be called "PUMAN".

Heh.

Pronounced like the Ferengi say Human.

217 radix023  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:58:01pm

I want to know when Bibi gets another bite at the apple. He got a raw deal before.. did good work, didn't get returned to power. I read his book, he definitely gets it.

218 Bobibutu  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:58:10pm

re: #24 ciaospirit

OT but good.

Lipstick rules!

219 chicagodudewhotrades  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:58:13pm

re: #187 Typicalwhitey


Yes , the press weren't allowed at the event, but they weren't allowed at the well-known San Fran party where he made the 'bitter folks clinging to guns'comment. Hopefully, there is a Clinton supporter/PUMA type in attendance who has a cell phone with video capabilty that records some similiar type comment. Looking at the current polling data, this is the absolute last thing Obambi needs right now.

220 JacksonTn  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:58:25pm

Obama with Babs part 2 - you will need a bucket

221 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:58:42pm

re: #198 tommygum

I am a self-confessed gentile, armchair historian, and, because of that, a supporter of Israel. Maybe because of the underdog thing (I AM an American, after all), I've always pulled for them. I am, sorta-kinda religious and am aware that the Jews are G*d's chosen people, and that He will always still the hand of those who seek to destroy them. Having said that, I hope Livni will be a positive development on the Israeli political scene. I bow to the knowledge of the Israeli lizards, but I just wanna tell ya I'm with ya.

God chose them, but he's since changed his mind. He now favors Texans. Livni may well work out, but she's on her own.

222 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:58:52pm

re: #206 WriterMom

It's one moonbat and one derranged supervisor. Seriously whack stuff.

Wanna' borrow my clue-by-four?

223 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:59:08pm

re: #211 Intrepid

Male PUMAs should be called "PUMAN".

Heh.

They should me known as "Thep U Maman"

224 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:59:32pm

re: #223 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

They should me known as "Thep U Maman"

Be known that is

225 Silhouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:59:36pm

re: #182 Miss Molly

What kind of a test will the extremeist have in store for her?

Oh, you're right. The terrorists will be trying to kill some innocents to test how she'll react.

226 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:59:43pm

re: #212 WriterMom

Neat.

Do you like gondi?

MMMM, home cooking. Absolute favorite, Koresht Fesenijan, Chicken in pomegranate walnut sauce over rice. I cook a lot of Persian still.

227 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 8:59:46pm

The idiots on kos think it is ok to hack into Sarah's emails.
Call it civil disobedience.

I call it being cell mates with bubba and getting the "business end of the stick" if you know what I mean.

228 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:00:08pm

re: #210 JacksonTn

Obama with Babs part 1.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

A narcisssts' mutual admiration society.

229 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:00:10pm

re: #10 aunursa

I don't know anything about her. But if they're applauding -- that's bad news.

If the Splodeydopes like her - bad news for Israel.

230 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:00:33pm

re: #215 jcm

No the turd wouldn't. Even if he had the means.
My book he's not even a man.

Means he wouldn't put up a fight when you're kicking his ass either. worthless shit.

231 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:00:49pm

re: #222 MandyManners

You're sweet. I have a meeting on Friday which should give me more information about where this is all going.

232 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:01:07pm

re: #226 jcm

MMMM, home cooking. Absolute favorite, Koresht Fesenijan, Chicken in pomegranate walnut sauce over rice. I cook a lot of Persian still.

Peppermint schnapps in the freezer is the only Persian dish I know.

233 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:01:12pm

re: #9 Sharmuta

So the party elected her? Why doesn't the public have a say?

Scanned the thread and didn't see a reply, so here is a hack at it that may seem overly simple, but some lurkers unfamiliar with European style politics may benefit -

We are dealing with Parliamentary politics. Each member in a Parliament is of a party and there are multiple parties in the Knesset (the Israeli Parliament). The prime minister is selected by the members of the Knesset. Because the PM has all of the power and authority to run the different agencies of the government, every party wants a party man/woman in that chair. If a party can get the majority of the seats in the Knesset, then they usually will place their party leader there. But it is rare that a party holds a majority. Instead, the dominant party will try to form a coalition with other parties, trading ministries (essentially cabinet level agencies of the government) for support in the coalition. That can give some smaller parties a lot of power if they can get a ministry that they care about. And the dominant party gets to place its leader in the PM chair - if they can form a coalition.

As often happens, the PM can lose his/her job when members pass a motion of no-confidence. That will usually be catalyzed when a party leaves the coalition and there is no longer a majority. The dominant party gets the opportunity to try to put together another coalition, or they can call for new elections and roll the dice, perhaps gaining more seats.

In the end, the voters vote for their member / party, and then hope their party will succeed in getting in the ruling coalition. A different way of doing representational government, and a way that gets more diverse parties in the political mainstream, but also leads to less stable government.

234 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:01:18pm

Very Funny!

235 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:01:41pm

re: #231 WriterMom

You're sweet. I have a meeting on Friday which should give me more information about where this is all going.

Keep your chin up!

236 Adina in Judea  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:01:44pm

re: #162 Shr_Nfr

I would be astounded if such an ultra-orthodox group would join a coalition run by a woman. I know that if you are a woman and go into the Jewish bookstore in Brookline run by Eli the Ganiff, the guys behind the counter will not even talk to you and certainly will not touch you. You might be having your period and all you know and it would render them "unclean".

Modern Orthodox Jews don't touch between the sexes either (i.e., shake hands between men and women who aren't direct family members.) It has to do with respect for the spouses and future spouses of people of the opposite sex.

It has nothing to do with hating women.

Shas is agreeing to join Livni's coaltion if the conditions are met. It's a matter of whether people think the conditions are reasonable or not. Refusing to join Livni/Kadima if Jerusalem is on the table in "peace" negotiations is an excellent reason not to join the government. People's opinions about the other condition may vary.

237 Neo Con since 9-11  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:01:52pm

re: #198 tommygum

Thank you from us Jewish supporters of Israel. I don't think Livni is a great choice (since she was one of the architects of disengagement) but is likely to be very temporary. She could be gone before our US elections and will likely be gone before the next US President is sworn in. Hopefully replaced by Netanyahu.

238 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:02:03pm

re: #228 MandyManners

A narcisssts' mutual admiration society.

Did you like the "O" saying "give it up" for the band, singer etc?
Looked like a lounge singer to me or a third rate comedian.

239 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:02:03pm

re: #227 Typicalwhitey

The idiots on kos think it is ok to hack into Sarah's emails.
Call it civil disobedience.

Nothing is off-limits when you don't believe in limits. This surprises no-one. The only thing that varies is the term they use to justify whatever it is they're doing.

"resistance"
"civil disobedience"
etc.

We call it "being an a-hole" here in the real world.

240 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:02:04pm

re: #211 Intrepid

Male PUMAs should be called "PUMAN".

Heh.

Either way- it's just nice to see there are democrats who actually will put the country before their party. May there be many of them all over America.

241 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:02:14pm

re: #226 jcm

I like my MIL's rice with mahj, served with lamb and chickpeas. Yummm. Drink a little chai...yummers...

242 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:02:41pm

re: #234 That dog won't hunt

Hey dog.
Did you understand 119?

243 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:02:51pm

re: #216 CyanSnowHawk

Pronounced like the Ferengi say Human.

"POO-MAHN"

Of course, the Ferengi keep their females naked all the time, so we don't need their demographic in this election.

244 omnys  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:07pm

re: #21 nigella

Former Mossad? Don't think she is exactly a push over...


Don't get your hopes up. She was just a housesitter.
Channel 1: Livni's past in Mossad not spectacular

245 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:12pm

re: #208 WriterMom

You give up so easily!

Well WM my lap is right here if you need a good bounce...~brushes off doghair~

246 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:18pm

re: #235 MandyManners

:)

247 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:24pm

re: #213 Maximu§

You mean he would'nt stop a rape? IMO, that guy should get 1/2 the jail time the rapists gets....in fact put them in the same cell.

I was absolutely stunned, I mean violence is being done, illegal, immoral, unjust violence, and he wouldn't walk over and kick the rapist in the head?
*spit*

Pathetic.

248 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:30pm

re: #233 karmic_inquisitor

Thanks. I like America's way of doing it better.

249 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:32pm

re: #179 ggt

fight fire with fire!

Had the U.S. responded appropriately in 1979 with Iran, we would be in a much stronger situation today. Years of pointless diplomatic diarrhea on our part has only emboldened the Islamic nutjobs of the world. Lessons yet to be learned (or re-learned).

250 Age Of Freedom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:03:57pm

And oh yeah,

The Palis no wonder the Palis are psyched. They admitted they were afraid of Mofaz. I just lost trust with anyone who made the call to move into that party Kadima. It's a fraud of a party. Opportunistic and indifferent.

There's a handful of real old-school leaders in the Knesset, but the majority of the public in Israel is an ongoing elitist EU appeasers together with a near 20% arab votes that go to anti-zionist arab parties, just won't ever let 'em fly.

So here's another PM on the way to future bankruptcy.

251 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:04:41pm

Hey y'all - sorry, late to the party again. What have I missed - are we still more or less on topic here?

252 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:04:53pm

re: #232 OldLineTexan

Peppermint schnapps in the freezer is the only Persian dish I know.

LOL!
Persians had BBQ (kabob) long time ago!

253 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:39pm

Kadima is SHIT.

If there were real elections, "Kadima" would disappear-it would cease to exist. The only hope is that there is a non-confidence vote that will bring down the government. Then, Bibi will get elected, and no-he's not perfect, but he's the best we've got now.

254 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:39pm

re: #251 realwest

Hey y'all - sorry, late to the party again. What have I missed - are we still more or less on topic here?

Naw, we're all over the map as ususal...

255 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:44pm

re: #251 realwest

Hey y'all - sorry, late to the party again. What have I missed - are we still more or less on topic here?

We are NEVER on topic!
We are usually on several topics.

Now that you are here I can stop calling you names behind your back LOL
/

256 Intrepid  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:48pm

re: #223 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

They should me known as "Thep U Maman"

I'm gonna save that for later and watch the whole show. I do miss MST3K so very much! Best way to spend a lazy Saturday morning with a few cups of coffee.

257 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:54pm

Good night, Lizards!

258 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:57pm

re: #239 Pawn of the Oppressor

Nothing is off-limits when you don't believe in limits. This surprises no-one. The only thing that varies is the term they use to justify whatever it is they're doing.

"resistance"
"civil disobedience"
etc.

We call it "being an a-hole" here in the real world.

Well those assholes hide behind the anonymity of the internet, or so they think. If they tried it in person, Sarah would kill em, skin em and have em for dinner by nightflal.

259 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:05:57pm

re: #240 Sharmuta

Either way- it's just nice to see there are democrats who actually will put the country before their party. May there be many of them all over America.

At the beginning of this election cycle, I was thinking "sh!t. gotta vote against somebody again".
I like the direction this is headed.
If it holds, I like the direction the country is headed.
I can live with a situation which everybody else can live with. Easily.

260 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:06:08pm

re: #119 Typicalwhitey

Do you know what this one means?

yoU ReAlly Didnt Understand My Message trulY?

Sorry no, newbe

261 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:06:15pm

re: #251 realwest

REALWEST

How are you doing...I was thinking about you today...

262 OldLineTexan  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:06:23pm

re: #252 jcm

LOL!
Persians had BBQ (kabob) long time ago!

In 1979, all the Iranians I knew turned into Persians.

263 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:06:36pm

night MM

264 ggt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:06:52pm

weet dreams all!

265 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:07:02pm

re: #239 Pawn of the Oppressor

Nothing is off-limits when you don't believe in limits. This surprises no-one. The only thing that varies is the term they use to justify whatever it is they're doing.

"resistance"
"civil disobedience"
etc.

We call it "being an a-hole" here in the real world.

They are saying that it was hacked because she was using it for govt business.
Without any proof of course.

266 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:07:13pm

re: #249 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Had the U.S. responded appropriately in 1979 with Iran, we would be in a much stronger situation today. Years of pointless diplomatic diarrhea on our part has only emboldened the Islamic nutjobs of the world. Lessons yet to be learned (or re-learned).

That turd Rabbit Bait killed friends of mine with his worthless behavior.
Khomenini was still consolidating power when the embassy went down.
If Carter showed any balls at all they would've tossed Khomenini under the bus in a heart beat, instead Carter turned Khomenini into a hero.

267 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:07:26pm

re: #252 jcm

Not to brag, but I make the best kabab. I use ground beef, corriander, Israeli grilling spices, fresh ground pepper, salt and I usually throw in some hawaij spice too.

268 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:07:52pm

re: #217 radix023

I want to know when Bibi gets another bite at the apple. He got a raw deal before.. did good work, didn't get returned to power. I read his book, he definitely gets it.

Bibi needs that saving grace of humility to let him know when to say No to himself. He showed a Clintonian arrogance and got caught with his pants down. Considering his wife is a lot more attractive than Hillary it was a puzzle. Hope he can keep his eyes on the ball now and realizes how many others are depending on him. His policies were good for the Israeli economy. He did sign a interim peace agreement himself that turned out bad. It was an early slice of the salami.

269 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:08:16pm

re: #239 Pawn of the Oppressor

Nothing is off-limits when you don't believe in limits. This surprises no-one. The only thing that varies is the term they use to justify whatever it is they're doing.

"resistance"
"civil disobedience"
etc.

We call it "being an a-hole" here in the real world.

I hope they are familiar with MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail.
If you do the disobedience, be prepared to do the time in a just cause.

270 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:08:50pm

re: #267 WriterMom

Not to brag, but I make the best kabab. I use ground beef, corriander, Israeli grilling spices, fresh ground pepper, salt and I usually throw in some hawaij spice too.

It's after ten o'clock, and you're making my mouth water.

271 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:08:56pm

re: #267 WriterMom

Not to brag, but I make the best kabab. I use ground beef, corriander, Israeli grilling spices, fresh ground pepper, salt and I usually throw in some hawaij spice too.

Now, you've done it.
I'M HUNGRY!
I can smell it, I really can.

272 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:09:02pm

What Israel most needs is an election so that Kadima can be tossed into the ashbin of history.

One would think that after the abject failure of Olmert that the voters will punish his party once given the chance.

273 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:09:03pm

re: #251 realwest

Hey y'all - sorry, late to the party again. What have I missed - are we still more or less on topic here?

real. God is real ...

274 Silhouette  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:09:33pm

In the moonbat dictionary, "civil disobedience" means breaking a law that protects the rights of a Republican.

275 Teacake!  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:09:37pm

Just in case the Sarah Palin thread is dead - there's a poll at the PBS site asking if she is qualified to be VP - so far she has a low percentage. Just click, no email addy necessary.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

276 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:09:42pm

re: #268 lifeofthemind

Bibi introduced the concept of reciprocity to the "peace" negotiations. regarding his affairs-when does it ever have to do with the wife's appearance? Cheating has little to do with the wife at all.

277 BlueCanuck  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:09:57pm

Hey WriterMom, uptight about the re-education session?

/saw that on my lurking time.

278 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:10:01pm
re: #119 Typicalwhitey

Do you know what this one means?

yoU ReAlly Didnt Understand My Message trulY?

Sorry no, newbe

It is the equivilent of cyber snipe hunting LOL
;)

279 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:10:21pm

re: #261 WriterMom
Hey there WriterMom - what was ya thinking? I SWEAR I didn't do it - unless it was good, then I SWEAR I did it! LOL!

280 Neo Con since 9-11  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:10:33pm

re: #267 WriterMom

Upding since that sounds so damn good.

281 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:10:43pm

re: #272 wildcat84

They will-but this was just a Kadima party vote to replace Olmert. Full, general elections won't be held for two years I think-unless there is a non-confidence vote before.

282 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:10:50pm

re: #267 WriterMom

Not to brag, but I make the best kabab. I use ground beef, corriander, Israeli grilling spices, fresh ground pepper, salt and I usually throw in some hawaij spice too.

Pile on some Tabasco sauce and thats sounds like a meal.

283 itellu3times  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:11:20pm

just watching some of the Palin interview now ...

284 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:11:25pm

re: #277 BlueCanuck

Yes, but if I sense it's gonna get nasty, I've got a plan :)

285 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:12:00pm

re: #282 Maximu§

Pile on some Tabasco sauce and thats sounds like a meal.

Heathen!

286 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:12:09pm

HAHAHAH!
Olberdummy was beaten in the ratings by his protege Rachel Maddow!
How long before he gets her fired?

287 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:12:51pm

re: #280 Neo Con since 9-11

Wait till I talk about my Morrocan fish recipe.

288 Bobibutu  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:12:51pm

re: #266 jcm

That turd Rabbit Bait killed friends of mine with his worthless behavior.
Khomenini was still consolidating power when the embassy went down.
If Carter showed any balls at all they would've tossed Khomenini under the bus in a heart beat, instead Carter turned Khomenini into a hero.

His Bro tried to shake down the Shah - the Shah told him to get F*cked - JC cut off support - the rest is history.

289 Rancher  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:12:57pm

From Wikileaks' press release

The internet activist group 'anonymous', famed for its exposure of unethical behavior by the Scientology cult, has now gone after the Alaskan governor and republican Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

At around midnight last night the group gained access to governor Palin's email account ... and handed over the contents to the government sunshine site Wikileaks.org.

Governor Palin has come under media criticism in the past week for using pseudo-private email accounts to avoid Alaskan freedom of information laws.

The zip archive made available by Wikileaks contains screen shots of Palin's inbox, two example emails, governor Palin's address box and a couple of family photos. While the emails released so far reveal little, the list of correspondence appears to re-enforce the criticism that Palin is mixing governmental and personal affairs.

So basically they published stolen private property.

290 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:13:04pm

re: #266 jcm

Carter turned Khomenini into a hero.

As Obama will do for dinnerjacket, given the chance.

291 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:13:08pm

re: #286 Typicalwhitey

HAHAHAH!
Olberdummy was beaten in the ratings by his protege Rachel Maddow!
How long before he gets her fired?

Is Rachel Maddow worth watching?
Without puking or breaking the TV set?

292 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:13:31pm

re: #279 realwest

Just hoping you beat the big "c" down.

293 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:13:56pm

re: #273 That dog won't hunt He better be; and his Son, too, or I'm in deep doo-doo!
Welcome aboard LGF, btw! IF ya haven't done so, y'all ought to check out the LGF Dictionary and -especially in light of this thread, Nekamma's Troll Hammer (upper left Resources and Tools Info resepectively).

294 laZardo  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:14:53pm

re: #251 realwest

My thoughts on Tzipi is that maybe she could keep Fatah and Hamas at each other's throats. This way they can at least let one part of their troubles die off and THEN go after the other one(s?) afterward.

295 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:15:03pm

re: #285 jcm

Heathen!

Well! I think a splash of Tabasco sauce is just what WriterMom's recipe needs.

296 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:15:25pm

re: #290 Kreuzueber Halbmond

As Obama will do for dinnerjacket, given the chance.

That'll keep me up nights.

297 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:15:57pm

re: #291 jwb7605

Is Rachel Maddow worth watching?
Without puking or breaking the TV set?

No. She isn't as annoying as Olbermann but it is all "chimpymcbushitler" 24/7.
There is absolutely no pretense in her show or olbermanns show of anything even approachin impartiality.

298 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:16:24pm

re: #276 WriterMom

Bibi introduced the concept of reciprocity to the "peace" negotiations. regarding his affairs-when does it ever have to do with the wife's appearance? Cheating has little to do with the wife at all.

True, at least he seems to have better taste than Clinton.

299 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:16:25pm

re: #295 Maximu§

Well! I think a splash of Tabasco sauce is just what WriterMom's recipe needs.

LOL! Persian isn't much on the hot spicy, unless you get down in the south east.

300 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:16:28pm

re: #295 Maximu§

You could also just dice a jalapeno pepper and add it to the ground beef and spices.

301 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:16:32pm

re: #292 WriterMom
Thanks, me too!
Anyway, I'm gonna get to see a radiology oncologist early next month and go from there.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, they are very definitely and most genuinely appreciated!

302 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:16:36pm

re: #281 WriterMom

They will-but this was just a Kadima party vote to replace Olmert. Full, general elections won't be held for two years I think-unless there is a non-confidence vote before.

If she fails to get a coalition, Likud should try their damndest to get a no confidence vote.

Olmert and Kadima have done FAR more damage to Israel than Hamas, Hizbollah, and the Palis COMBINED.

If the Israeli people aren't smart enough to realize this, well, they deserve what they get. Much like if we in the US end up electing Barry Hussein.

303 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:17:19pm

There's a tip on the previous thread about who the Palin hacker might be.

304 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:17:58pm

re: #299 jcm

The hottest food I ever had in Israel was what the Moroccan Jews make. GAWD, I turned into the reddest Ashkenazi around-very embarrasing.

305 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:11pm

re: #295 Maximu§

Well! I think a splash of Tabasco sauce is just what WriterMom's recipe needs.

If she cooks the way it sounds, Tabasco is unnecessary.
Good Persian food is what Mexican dishes try to imitate, with little success.

306 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:12pm

re: #294 laZardo
Well my friend, even after reading Charles comments and link, and skimming some of the comments here, I really don't know what to think of her, but I DO like the fact that she used to be Mossad!

307 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:20pm

re: #300 WriterMom

You could also just dice a jalapeno pepper and add it to the ground beef and spices.

and then add some Tabasco sauce...:)

308 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:39pm

Have the new lizards submitted their surety bonds yet? They can contact me in private to arrange secure delivery.

309 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:44pm

re: #302 wildcat84

If she fails to get a coalition, Likud should try their damndest to get a no confidence vote.

Olmert and Kadima have done FAR more damage to Israel than Hamas, Hizbollah, and the Palis COMBINED.

If the Israeli people aren't smart enough to realize this, well, they deserve what they get. Much like if we in the US end up electing Barry Hussein.

So Israel and America are both up shit creek. We're about to elect a fucking Hussein and they someone who Fatah likes. Jeezus H. Christ!

310 Maximu§  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:48pm

nite all....gotta read to the little one.

311 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:18:55pm

re: #307 Maximu§

and then add some Tabasco sauce...:)

And chili powder

312 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:19:40pm

re: #303 Sharmuta
Hi Sharm - uh, could y'all pin that down for some of us "slower" folks?!

313 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:19:46pm

re: #198 tommygum

I am a self-confessed gentile, armchair historian, and, because of that, a supporter of Israel. Maybe because of the underdog thing (I AM an American, after all), I've always pulled for them. I am, sorta-kinda religious and am aware that the Jews are G*d's chosen people, and that He will always still the hand of those who seek to destroy them. Having said that, I hope Livni will be a positive development on the Israeli political scene. I bow to the knowledge of the Israeli lizards, but I just wanna tell ya I'm with ya.

I'm just one of those folks that like Israel. Israel is the last bastion of democracy, free-thought, capitalism and equal rights in the cesspool referred to as the Middle East.

That being said, I used to work for Celebrity Cruises. Their security officers (not guards) were former Israeli combat vets. You want to meet some affable but hard as nails guys? I sat and chatted with a few of them a couple of times. Five words come to mind:

Don't. Fuck. With. The. Israelis.

314 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:20:25pm

re: #313 Badge of Kaffir Pride

I'm just one of those folks that like Israel. Israel is the last bastion of democracy, free-thought, capitalism and equal rights in the cesspool referred to as the Middle East.

That being said, I used to work for Celebrity Cruises. Their security officers (not guards) were former Israeli combat vets. You want to meet some affable but hard as nails guys? I sat and chatted with a few of them a couple of times. Five words come to mind:

Don't. Fuck. With. The. Israelis.

Livni is trying to do just that.

315 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:20:32pm

OT -
Memo to US Secret Service: Net proxy may pinpoint Palin email hackers

"Usually, this sort of thing would be hard to track down because it's Yahoo email, and a lot of people use my service for that," he told El Reg in a phone interview. "Since they were dumb enough to post a full screenshot that showed most of the [Ctunnel.com] URL, I should be able to find that in my log."

Someone is going to have a bad day tomorrow.. and what incriminating evidence did you find for your troubles? emails from Rove and Chenney? Halliburton Conspiracy? Confirmation 9/11 really was an inside job? Nope, nothing. Pictures of her children, occasionally making funny faces.

Smooth move ex-lax..

316 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:20:58pm
Don't. Fuck. With. The. Israelis.


My mom told me that a long time ago.
Said they were the baddest of the bad.

317 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:21:19pm

re: #310 Maximu§
Good night Maximus! Sleep well.

318 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:21:30pm

re: #313 Badge of Kaffir Pride

The best fighters and the best minds in Israel have their hands tied by the leftist government and an increasingly politicized army (to the left).

319 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:21:46pm

re: #300 WriterMom

You could also just dice a jalapeno pepper and add it to the ground beef and spices.

Speaking of jalapeno peppers, I grew some "Billy Biker" jalapenos this year.
about 50% bigger than 'standard', and about 50% hotter.
Two weeks for the habaneros to fully mature, and it's picante sauce season.

320 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:21:58pm

re: #317 realwest

It's at the end of the thread.

321 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:22:16pm

re: #316 Typicalwhitey
Hey there Typicalwhitey, how are you doing tonight?

322 WriterMom  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:22:50pm

I'm finally getting sleeeeepy.

Thanks for the great conversations. Good night!

323 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:22:56pm

re: #320 Sharmuta
Thank you kindly!
BBIAM!

324 tommygum  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:23:17pm

Watching the rerun of Hannity's interview with Sarah Palin, she is the real deal. I've always said that the first woman president would be a republican. It's good to be right, but she WILL be the first female president of these here United States, and that's much more important than me being right.

325 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:23:49pm

re: #309 EIDE_Interface

So Israel and America are both up shit creek. We're about to elect a fucking Hussein and they someone who Fatah likes. Jeezus H. Christ!

I hope not. Barry Hussein Obama, the false "messiah" would certainly do great damage to the United States, given that he'd govern like Jimmy Carter on steroids (and I'm old enough to remember just how bad it was when Carter was President). But Carter DID lead to Reagan, and the United States has a LOT more "space" to trade for time than Israel.

Unfortunately the situation with Israel is different. There is little to no margin for incompetence in leadership in Israel, being a tiny country with the enemy within and surrounding them. They are about at their limit as to what they can withstand. A combination of more Kadima incompetent (and arguably treasonous) leadership AND a weak US President like B. Hussein Obama could very well spell the END of Israel.

326 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:23:57pm

re: #316 Typicalwhitey

My mom told me that a long time ago.
Said they were the baddest of the bad.

Their pilots are "at least as good as" US Navy pilots.
McCain would have accepted their fighter support any day.

327 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:24:21pm

re: #321 realwest

Hey there Typicalwhitey, how are you doing tonight?

Doing great my friend.
I can't wait for the debates.
Keep my email handy, anytime you want to talk, well, as you can tell from my posts, I rarely shut up LOL

328 laZardo  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:25:35pm

Gonna whoosh off to college now. The random schedule generator has bestowed 2-8 pm classes upon me this term for Thursdays. Cheers!

329 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:26:17pm

re: #326 jwb7605

Their pilots are "at least as good as" US Navy pilots.
McCain would have accepted their fighter support any day.

They were telling me stories about carrying wounded back on their shoulders for days coming back from either Lebanon or Palestinian lands. Sure, they speak English like Elmer Fudd but I never messed with them.

330 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:26:26pm

re: #320 Sharmuta
Well I went and looked and thank you kindly.
Davey, don't even run, cause you're just gonna die tired!
Thanks again Sharm!

331 BlueCanuck  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:26:29pm

Bye WriterMom, and remember. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

332 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:26:32pm

re: #304 WriterMom

The hottest food I ever had in Israel was what the Moroccan Jews make. GAWD, I turned into the reddest Ashkenazi around-very embarrasing.

Hottest thing I ever tied into was some mongolian beef, the real thing in a little Chinese Mom & Pop restaurant in N. Seattle. It was soooo good, but red, and sweating and crying.

333 Globular Cluster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:27:19pm

I'm comfortable with Tzipi as PM. Better than all the rest, at least. Plus she was in the Mossad -- that must be good for something.

334 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:27:41pm

re: #327 Typicalwhitey
LOL! I will and thank you - very much.

335 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:28:33pm

re: #278 Typicalwhitey

It is the equivilent of cyber snipe hunting LOL
;)

Have you ever been snipe hunting? (god you have to be hearing this shit btwn wes with rurnspawn2 right now - too many beers) LOL hey you are gonna love we from tex

turn

336 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:28:40pm

Read the wiki on the Politics of Israel. It has the most jug headed unstable system of any democracy I ever heard of. Britain has a stable parliamentary system with single member districts and clear winners and losers. Italy has an unstable system with multiple member districts but proportional represtation within a district. Israel has the least stable system as the entire country is a single district where people vote for a party and above a low cut off everyone gets to win.

337 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:29:36pm

re: #336 lifeofthemind

Read the wiki on the Politics of Israel. It has the most jug headed unstable system of any democracy I ever heard of. Britain has a stable parliamentary system with single member districts and clear winners and losers. Italy has an unstable system with multiple member districts but proportional represtation within a district. Israel has the least stable system as the entire country is a single district where people vote for a party and above a low cut off everyone gets to win.

Israel is too small to be divided up into districts. Heck, it's too small period.

338 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:29:43pm

re: #333 Globular Cluster

I'm comfortable with Tzipi as PM. Better than all the rest, at least. Plus she was in the Mossad -- that must be good for something.

John Kerry was in the Navy (so I've heard) and look what he was good for.

339 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:29:46pm

re: #333 Globular Cluster

I'm comfortable with Tzipi as PM. Better than all the rest, at least. Plus she was in the Mossad -- that must be good for something.

Jimmy Carter was in the Navy, and by all accounts served well and honorably.

That didn't translate to him NOT leading the United States to it's all time military and political low point and into the worst economic low point since the great depression.

As bad as things look now, it's BOOM times compared to 1978-1980. I know, I remember those years.

340 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:29:52pm

re: #333 Globular Cluster
"Plus she was in the Mossad -- that must be good for something."
My thoughts exactly!
Sure hope we're both right!

341 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:29:53pm
342 OnTheRightSide  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:30:35pm

I don't think she is PM, although I might be wrong. She needs to try and form a government coalition soon, but that may be very difficult, in which case a general election needs to be called, while Olmert will run a caretaker government.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong

343 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:31:01pm

What would have to happen for a general election to take place? A vote of no confidence? Why haven't they done that yet? Olmert is the worst PM they have had in a long, long time. Barak was not much better... If that vote comes will Netanyahu win? Or, is that still too close to call?

344 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:31:08pm

re: #342 OnTheRightSide

I don't think she is PM, although I might be wrong. She needs to try and form a government coalition soon, but that may be very difficult, in which case a general election needs to be called, while Olmert will run a caretaker government.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong

This is correct. She only gets to be PM if she forms a coalition.

345 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:31:28pm

re: #334 realwest

No thanks needed.
Hell the UPS man hates coming here, being out on a farm not too many to talk to and I end up telling him at least one story ;)

346 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:32:26pm

re: #332 jcm

Hottest thing I ever tied into was some mongolian beef, the real thing in a little Chinese Mom & Pop restaurant in N. Seattle. It was soooo good, but red, and sweating and crying.

The best Chinese food I've ever had (outside of Hong Kong) was a Mom & Pop restaurant in ... believe it or not ... Casper, Wyoming.
Not only that, they had a fortune teller who accurately predicted my future for the following 30 years (and counting, hopefully). She (fortune teller) was bored, and did it for free.

Gotta sleep, nite all!

347 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:32:56pm

re: #320 Sharmuta

It's at the end of the thread.

Checkmate, Dave

348 jwb7605  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:33:22pm

re: #338 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

John Kerry was in the Navy (so I've heard) and look what he was good for.

I heard he was in Vietnam!
/really leaving this time ...

349 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:34:12pm

OT= totally

wes and I ( turn ) are having so much fun tonight ...

350 tommygum  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:34:21pm

re: #326 jwb7605

Their pilots are "at least as good as" US Navy pilots.
McCain would have accepted their fighter support any day.

They have, IIRC, the most flight time.

351 mattm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:34:30pm

Now does she have a spine?

352 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:35:04pm

re: #346 jwb7605

The best Chinese food I've ever had (outside of Hong Kong) was a Mom & Pop restaurant in ... believe it or not ... Casper, Wyoming.
Not only that, they had a fortune teller who accurately predicted my future for the following 30 years (and counting, hopefully). She (fortune teller) was bored, and did it for free.

Gotta sleep, nite all!

There's a mom & pop Cambodian Resturant in St. Helens OR, that will knock your socks off. You always end up trying stuff from other peoples plates, then ordering more, till you can't even move.

I'm always willing to try "ethnic" mom and pops, best anything, because it's the real deal.

353 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:35:08pm

re: #346 jwb7605

The best Chinese food I've ever had (outside of Hong Kong) was a Mom & Pop restaurant in ... believe it or not ... Casper, Wyoming.
Not only that, they had a fortune teller who accurately predicted my future for the following 30 years (and counting, hopefully). She (fortune teller) was bored, and did it for free.

Gotta sleep, nite all!

I believe it completely. Best pizza I've ever had (not including Chicago) was in Puerto Limon, Costa Rica.

354 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:35:23pm

Good evening, everyone. Did anyone see the most recent post from Carl in Jerusalem?
Interesting.

355 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:36:22pm

re: #336 lifeofthemind
There used to be a poster here call Carl From Jerusalem who had (has?) a blog called, iirc, Israel Matzoh - Charles used to link to him but I don't see him in the blog roll anymore. Anyway, Carl was kind enough to try to explain Israeli politics to me - on TWO different occasions and I still didn't get it.
But if you search for him and ask him (ya can tell him realwest sent you) maybe you'll understand it more than I did.

356 tommygum  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:36:27pm

Me and Gibson (my canine shadow) are going night-night.

357 RememberSekhmet?  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:36:53pm

I'm not sure what to think about this development. I say it ad nauseam, I know--but I think a lot of the so-called "peace process" is due to we in the US not getting our crap together to hit Iran until it became too close to our election. If we played Iran the wrong way at the wrong time, we could have ended up with the race this year being between Dennic Kucinich and Ron Paul. So I'm not going to be as hard on Olmert as some are for this issue, and will give Livni a chance.

358 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:36:53pm

re: #354 rw in san diego

Good evening, everyone. Did anyone see the most recent post from Carl in Jerusalem?
Interesting.

And I thought we had election messes.

359 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:37:25pm

re: #337 EIDE_Interface

Israel is too small to be divided up into districts. Heck, it's too small period.

I disagree. Population of 7.3 million and 120 sets in parliament would give districts with a population of about 61,000. That is almost the classical ideal for the size of a political community. Large enough to permit variety and small enough to allow people to know their politicians. A collection of 120 communities of that size should be very dynamic.

360 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:37:44pm

it friggin blew his towel off hahahahah

361 JacksonTn  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:38:06pm

I hate to beat a dead horse but I just can't wrap my head around Obama and his Pakistani roommate in New York. Here is an article from All Things Pakistan which has a little more information. Why was this guy attracted to these people? and for so long. His telling of the relationship seems too fabricated. And if his mother was on food stamps what was she doing staying in a 5 star hotel in Pakistan?

[Link: pakistaniat.com...]

362 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:39:10pm

re: #338 Kragar (proud to be kafir) Hey Kragar! "John Kerry was in the Navy (so I've heard)" I'll betcha heard he served in Vietnam, too. I know he didn't talk about it much but he was there!
/

363 RememberSekhmet?  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:39:50pm

re: #357 RememberSekhmet?

DenniS Kucinich. PIMF

364 Globular Cluster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:40:32pm

I also think there's value in the fact that Tzippi is a woman. 100 miles away, women can't even vote. The barbarian Arab world will have something else to piss them off.

Works for me.

365 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:41:23pm

re: #359 lifeofthemind
Please see my #355 and here's Carl's blog site:
[Link: israelmatzav.blogspot.com...]

366 wolfie  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:42:18pm

re: #354 rw in san diego

re: #355 realwest


Carl in J DOES explain these things well.

(Weirod!
A case of GMTA ?
Or could rw in san diego be a secret alter ego of RW ?
Hmmmmmmmmmm?)

367 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:42:30pm

re: #355 realwest

I believe the polite term for Israeli politics is "vibrant." That can mean the non PC joke stereotype of "One for me one for thee and one for the bastard behind the tree" as a way of dividing things up, has a kernel of truth to it.

368 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:42:34pm

All I wanna know in this is;

"Will she agree to carve up Jerusalem to try and appease the pals"?


Bearing in mind the fakes want all of Israel so "appeasement and peace" are really mute points.

369 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:43:30pm

re: #368 A Kiwi Infidel

All I wanna know in this is;

"Will she agree to carve up Jerusalem to try and appease the pals"?


Bearing in mind the fakes want all of Israel so "appeasement and peace" are really mute points.


Oh, coz if she does, she then she is a sockpuppet for Bush/Condy

370 Killian Bundy  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:43:32pm

Jill Greenberg Dropped by Photo Agency

The Vaughan Hannigan photo agency, which has represented the disgraced, excrement-obsessed photoshopper Jill Greenberg, has just dropped her from its client list. Bill Hannigan, who runs the agency, told me a few minutes ago that Greenberg and the agency had "different views on how to conduct business." He said he couldn't say anything more because he is "still sorting out some issues with Jill related to her contract."

/what a shame

371 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:44:22pm

And on that note, I will take my leave and head home. Good day and good night to you all.

372 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:45:17pm

re: #357 RememberSekhmet?

I'm not sure what to think about this development. I say it ad nauseam, I know--but I think a lot of the so-called "peace process" is due to we in the US not getting our crap together to hit Iran until it became too close to our election. If we played Iran the wrong way at the wrong time, we could have ended up with the race this year being between Dennic Kucinich and Ron Paul. So I'm not going to be as hard on Olmert as some are for this issue, and will give Livni a chance.

The problem is that modern politicians and the public have no clue as to what a "peace process" is.

You only negotiate peace after utterly, completely, and irrevocably crush the enemy to the point that they are broken, hopeless, powerless, and completely unable to agree to anything but unconditional surrender.

IE: Germany and Japan in World War II.

Only then can you reconstruct the enemy and turn them into something positive and productive for themselves AND the world as happened in those cases. Note that every war we've been involved with since World War II has violated this principle, leading to Korea ending up a stalemate with the enemy still existing in armistice, Vietnam being a loss, and, yes Iraq NOT being cleansed of the militant ROP (as in WHY didn't we kill Al-Sadar?!)

Israel won't win it's territorial integrity until the Palis are either forced to leave or to accept surrender (and thus forced to behave like civilized men and women instead of animals).

We won't win the "war on terror" until we QUIT fighting war against a tactic and instead utterly defeat political islam, which IS the modern day fascist out for world conquest movement that is the greatest threat to civilization since Hitler.

Once the ROP no longer HAS any power left to muster, and has no choice but surrender unconditionally, to accept everyone else in the world as EQUALS, and to reform itself into a constructive, useful entity in the world (as post Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan did) we cannot even THINK of negotiating peace.

373 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:45:19pm

re: #370 Killian Bundy

Jill Greenberg Dropped by Photo Agency

/what a shame

Ahhhh, that's so sad....
/NOT

A sanity breaking out in a board room somewhere, whodathunkit.

374 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:45:22pm

re: #365 realwest

Please see my #355 and here's Carl's blog site:
[Link: israelmatzav.blogspot.com...]


Thanks

375 wolfie  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:47:16pm

re: #361 JacksonTn

His mother scammed off the food stamp program when she was a graduate student working on her doctorate. Getting food stamps back then was a cool thing to do, especially if you didn't need them. LOTS of students did it.
His grandparents were NOT poor, and neither was his mother. Can't remember what his grandfather did, but I know his grandmother was vice president of a bank in Mercer Island/Seattle, then later in Hawaii.

376 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:47:45pm
377 lifeofthemind  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:48:23pm

re: #373 jcm

Ahhhh, that's so sad....
/NOT

A sanity breaking out in a board room somewhere, whodathunkit.

If not sanity a good substitute in the form of an accountant and a lawyer explaining the facts of life to a person who has a business to run.

378 Syrah  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:49:04pm

re: #108 jcm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

Its a problem with courage.

It is more rare then it ought to be.

379 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:50:14pm

re: #366 wolfie

re: #355 realwest


Carl in J DOES explain these things well.

(Weirod!
A case of GMTA ?
Or could rw in san diego be a secret alter ego of RW ?
Hmmmmmmmmmm?)

LOL! Now, what do you think of that, realwest?

380 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:50:54pm

re: #366 wolfie
Hi wolfie - nope, rw in San Diego is a VERY ATTRACTIVE WOMAN. I am an ok looking guy!
Good guess, though! LOL!

381 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:51:17pm

re: #370 Killian Bundy

Jill Greenberg Dropped by Photo Agency

/what a shame

Couldn't happen to a nicer ghoul.

382 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:53:14pm

re: #380 realwest

What are you talking about, handsome?

383 wolfie  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:53:19pm

re: #379 rw in san diego

re: #380 realwest

Oops ! :D


never mind..........

384 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:53:37pm

re: #378 Syrah

Its a problem with courage.

It is more rare then it ought to be.

Just as "common" sense being the most misnamed term in the English language.

You can't negotiate peace with barbarians who are more than 1,000 years behind modern civilization, learning, and standards of morality and right and wrong any more than a sheep can negotiate with a wolf.

No, you can only make peace with them ONCE you've suitably impressed upon them that their situation is hopeless, and that means by their own standards.

385 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:53:47pm

re: #378 Syrah

Its a problem with courage.

It is more rare then it ought to be.

Courage, yes.

I keep coming back to a old disused, discredited, and derided word.

Duty.

Putting aside I for a moment, for the larger good for family, for country. To be able to simply say, I did my duty.

I the words of Robert E. Lee, "Duty, then, is the sublimest word in our language."

386 itellu3times  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:53:59pm

re: #108 jcm

Semi-rhetorical question.

We live in a violent and dangerous world.

Sometimes it takes righteous violence to protect the freedoms we have.

Why don't so many people see that?

Because violence for violence is a cycle, and we respect anyone who can break the cycle.

That doesn't mean it's easy or always the best thing to try, I'm just answering your question - it's often a good social strategy, to educate people to peace rather than reflexive violence. Until all those f'ing pacificists get in the way at the wrong time.

387 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:54:35pm

re: #297 Typicalwhitey

No. She isn't as annoying as Olbermann but it is all "chimpymcbushitler" 24/7.
There is absolutely no pretense in her show or olbermanns show of anything even approachin impartiality.

How boring.

/said in a resigned, sad, deadpan voice.

388 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:55:23pm

re: #367 lifeofthemind
"Vibrant" is certainly one way to put it! LOL!
I was serious about contacting Carl - he's in Israel and has this story at the top of his blog right now!

389 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:56:09pm

re: #370 Killian Bundy

Jill Greenberg Dropped by Photo Agency


/what a shame

She'll be shooting nothing but gay weddings and college art projects soon enough.

390 wildcat84  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:57:09pm

re: #389 Pawn of the Oppressor

She'll be shooting nothing but gay weddings and college art projects soon enough.

Not to worry, she'll get a grant from the national "endowment" of the "arts" for her no doubt pulitzer award winning photos of McCain in a jar of urine.

391 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:58:07pm

re: #385 jcm

Courage, yes.

I keep coming back to a old disused, discredited, and derided word.

Duty.

Putting aside I for a moment, for the larger good for family, for country. To be able to simply say, I did my duty.

I the words of Robert E. Lee, "Duty, then, is the sublimest word in our language."

And Lee is the backbone-iest military man in our nation's history.

392 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 9:58:22pm

"and instead utterly defeat political Islam"

great idea ... no strategy.

really, what can be done? No submission .. Fight or die?

393 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:00:43pm

re: #378 Syrah
Hi Syrah - I agree and must say that I've seen literally hundreds of instances of individuals acting
with physical courage.
Not so many with moral courage.

394 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:02:05pm

re: #379 rw in san diego
ROTFLMAO! Please see my #380! LOL!

395 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:02:25pm

re: #386 itellu3times

Because violence for violence is a cycle, and we respect anyone who can break the cycle.

That doesn't mean it's easy or always the best thing to try, I'm just answering your question - it's often a good social strategy, to educate people to peace rather than reflexive violence. Until all those f'ing pacificists get in the way at the wrong time.

Whittle hits on that in YOU ARE NOT ALONE (Part 1) The Prisoner’s Dilemma,

If you think about it, all of our laws – and indeed, the very idea of respect for and equality under the law – are written to protect Tit-for-Tat, because Tit-for-Tat produces the best results. You may sell your product at a profit, but if you lie about what it does we will call that fraud and you will go to jail because successful societies start nice but retaliate against those that decide to Screw the Other Guy. The punishment of fraud is what gives us confidence in the claims made by other products. Retaliating against Screw the Other Guy is not mean-spiritedness or a lust for revenge. It is essential to protect the confidence needed to stay focused on long-term wins. And that’s how, in theory, you build a cooperative society.

You retaliate against those that take advantage of the common trust. In other words, you punish the cheaters. If you do not punish the cheaters, you have an “always cooperate” society that produces, consistently and rapidly, the worst possible outcome because it encourages – it selects – competing nasty strategies, by providing them with what I can only describe as a food source. Without retaliation against cheaters, cheaters thrive because that becomes the smartest strategy. There’s nothing “kind” about non-retaliation, nothing noble or good. Non-retaliation is suicide. Plain and simple.

396 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:03:23pm

re: #392 That dog won't hunt

"and instead utterly defeat political Islam"

great idea ... no strategy.

really, what can be done? No submission .. Fight or die?

I've thought a lot about that too. There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. They won't go away.

397 wolfie  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:03:52pm

Good grief!
I'd better hit the sack or I'll fall asleep in class tomorrow.
(Not a good idea when you're teaching it!)

Goodnight all!

RW and rw, behave yourselves !
(And thanks for the CinJ links.)

398 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:04:09pm

re: #394 realwest

See my #382!

399 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:04:18pm

re: #393 realwest

Hi Syrah - I agree and must say that I've seen literally hundreds of instances of individuals acting
with physical courage.
Not so many with moral courage.

Ok I'll bite - describe moral courage. Is that when I'm out of town on business, having a quite dinner by myself at the pub close to my hotel, and an attractive woman approaches me and I immediately turn her away, briefly showing her pictures of my wife and kids?

400 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:04:29pm

re: #385 jcm
Hello my friend.
"Putting aside I for a moment, for the larger good for family, for country. To be able to simply say, I did my duty."
I honestly prefer your definition to that of the great Robert E. Lee.

401 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:05:19pm

re: #397 wolfie

LOL! Good night, pleasant dreams.

402 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:05:34pm

Damn....

A US military helicopter has crashed in southern Iraq, killing seven US soldiers, the military has said.
The CH-47 Chinook helicopter made a "hard landing" shortly after midnight on Thursday about 96km (60 miles) west of the city of Basra, it said.

May God receive his servants into his presence. May God's peace and strength be in abundance to their families.

403 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:06:03pm

re: #397 wolfie
Good night wolfie - sleep well my friend!

404 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:06:31pm

re: #390 wildcat84

Not to worry, she'll get a grant from the national "endowment" of the "arts" for her no doubt pulitzer award winning photos of McCain in a jar of urine.

She'd try to work in the P.O.W. angle somewhere.

I shouldn't knock wedding photography. My roommate works at the district bankruptcy office, and she handles paperwork for all sorts of silly financial head-cases. One in particular she described to me was a photographer pulling in 80K+ per year in business, who bought a quarter million dollars worth of house & a couple of big cars, but never once filed taxes in the seven years he had been in business for himself. He didn't keep books, but he did keep (and spend) all the money he made (!). Dumbshit was in the hole for, well, everything. The powers that be laid claim to almost everything he owned and according to the paperwork he was trying to declare bankruptcy and hold on to about 10K worth of stuff (I'm guessing his camera setup).

In any case I was surprised at the amount he made, and roommate could tell from his paperwork that he had peak income in spring and fall, which would be wedding seasons here in TX. As a self-employed artist who is *ahem* well below the Obama threshold for "rich", when I hear about a guy who pulls in 80K with his art and then pisses it away like that, I feel like telling the .gov to stand back while I kick his ass FOR them.

Ya can't fix Stupid...

405 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:07:14pm

re: #396 Moe Katz

I've thought a lot about that too. There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. They won't go away.

yes, let me think ...

406 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:08:22pm

re: #398 rw in san diego
Geez, ya know we gotta stop meeting like this, rw!
We really do! Folks will think.............wait a minute, you're a really good looking woman and I'm, a, ah the hell with it, let 'em think what they want!
;')

407 Syrah  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:09:36pm

re: #393 realwest

Hi Syrah - I agree and must say that I've seen literally hundreds of instances of individuals acting
with physical courage.
Not so many with moral courage.

Courage has to be taught.

I think that too much in our culture teaches "peace at any price" with out offering any critical consideration for what that means.

Peace at any price? That path leads to slavery and death.

408 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:09:57pm

re: #407 Syrah

Courage has to be taught.

I think that too much in our culture teaches "peace at any price" with out offering any critical consideration for what that means.

Peace at any price? That path leads to slavery and death.

I was taught fight to the last man....

409 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:10:17pm

re: #405 That dog won't hunt

yes, let me think ...

Neither will we?

410 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:10:26pm

re: #406 realwest

LOL! What do we care?

/same time, same place?

411 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:10:32pm

re: #400 realwest

Hello my friend.
"Putting aside I for a moment, for the larger good for family, for country. To be able to simply say, I did my duty."
I honestly prefer your definition to that of the great Robert E. Lee.

Coming from you that's a high compliment.

Lee is one of those anachronistic figures in history. His sense of duty and honor, yet he chose the side of evil in his war. His military brilliance in fighting under supplied, out manned, out gunned, except for those critical 3 days in July.

He's a hard one to get a handle on.

412 Neo Con since 9-11  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:11:12pm

re: #405 That dog won't hunt


re: #396 Moe Katz

I've thought a lot about that too. There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. They won't go away.

yes, let me think ...


The answer might be to drag them kicking and screaming into the modern world. But there's no precedence for that kind of action succeeding? Oh wait... Iraqi war is succeeding? Never mind then

413 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:11:20pm

re: #399 cliffster
Well that could be one example.
Another would be if your boss told you to do something you knew was either illegal, immoral or unethical and you, knowing your job might be on the line, refused to do what your boss told you to AND refused to do it to his face.
Or, a soldier in combat see's someone on his side doing something morally reprehensible and reports said soldier to that soldier's superior officer.

414 Cognito  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:11:31pm

re: #370 Killian Bundy

Jill Greenberg Dropped by Photo Agency

/what a shame

I love the headline here:

Jill Greenberg Is Not Afraid To Dump All Her Clients At Once

She screwed the Atlantic. Absolutely, despicably screwed them.

415 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:12:05pm

re: #402 jcm
Amen.

416 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:12:19pm

re: #411 jcm

Are you a Civil War buff?

417 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:12:43pm

re: #413 realwest

Well that could be one example.
Another would be if your boss told you to do something you knew was either illegal, immoral or unethical and you, knowing your job might be on the line, refused to do what your boss told you to AND refused to do it to his face.
Or, a soldier in combat see's someone on his side doing something morally reprehensible and reports said soldier to that soldier's superior officer.

Which was my biggest beef with J F'in K. If those things he said were true, why didn't he refuse the orders, why didn't he report the events?

418 That dog won't hunt  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:14:39pm

re: #409 That dog won't hunt

Neither will we?

We have to be American's first ... other countries come second -or third etc.

419 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:14:58pm

re: #407 Syrah
Try this one............all the way to the end:
[Link: www.imeem.com...]

420 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:15:38pm

re: #416 rw in san diego

Are you a Civil War buff?

History buff. Civil war is of particular interest as it was a "family feud" so to speak. Most importantly what history teaches.

421 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:15:45pm

re: #410 rw in san diego
You betcha sweetie uh, rw!

422 aaron's rantblog  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:16:21pm

re: #217 radix023

No, Bibi is compromised and became a State Department-controlled tool. He gave up Biblical holy sites in Hebron and Shechem (Nablus).

Follow State's desires and you'll see who becomes Israel's next PM.

423 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:17:10pm

re: #417 jcm

He's a good example of a moral coward. He had no problem trying to defame good men in order to put himself in the limelight. His exaggerations, distortions and outright lies were despicable.

424 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:19:27pm

re: #411 jcm
Thank you jcm. But Robert E. Lee didn't fight for evil; as he told Abe Lincoln, his reason for turning down Lincoln's offer (just after Ft. Sumter had been fired on and the Southern States had seceeded) was that he could never take up arms against his home state.
Robert E. Lee best exemplifies what the US Civil war was truly all about: States Rights. Not Slavery, but the right of Virginians to live their lives the way they thought best, not the way someone in Washington told them to live their lives.
And yes, that too was an act of moral courage.

425 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:20:03pm

re: #413 realwest

Well that could be one example.
Another would be if your boss told you to do something you knew was either illegal, immoral or unethical and you, knowing your job might be on the line, refused to do what your boss told you to AND refused to do it to his face.
Or, a soldier in combat see's someone on his side doing something morally reprehensible and reports said soldier to that soldier's superior officer.

Nice. Throw in there with your first counter example, the fact that you have a family to support, and you have to consider that when deciding whether to walk the principaled road or just continue the status quo. It's not easy being good.

426 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:20:27pm

re: #423 rw in san diego

He's a good example of a moral coward. He had no problem trying to defame good men in order to put himself in the limelight. His exaggerations, distortions and outright lies were despicable.

True, and he came so close to the highest office in the land.

Now we've got a red diaper doper baby on the threshold.

427 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:21:47pm

re: #424 realwest

Robert E. Lee best exemplifies what the US Civil war was truly all about: States Rights. Not Slavery, but the right of Virginians to live their lives the way they thought best, not the way someone in Washington told them to live their lives.

Wow, thank you RW. Most people don't get that.

428 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:22:55pm

re: #426 jcm

It's truly amazing that Obama is the best the Democrats could produce. Hopefully, they'll find that the majority in this country still is very leery of the far left.

429 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:23:05pm

re: #124 lifeofthemind

As far as I am concerned, they should have three options:

1) Join the army like everyone else.
2) Be used to walk across the minefields to find the mines.
3) Be used for human experimentation like the US used some of the COs during WW2.

They are bloodsucking arrogant parasites.

430 rawmuse  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:23:25pm

re: #424 realwest

Lincoln rewarded him for his decision by confiscating his property and burying all the dead there, starting right next to the front porch. Today, it is known as Arlington National Cemetery.

431 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:23:54pm

re: #424 realwest

Thank you jcm. But Robert E. Lee didn't fight for evil; as he told Abe Lincoln, his reason for turning down Lincoln's offer (just after Ft. Sumter had been fired on and the Southern States had seceeded) was that he could never take up arms against his home state.
Robert E. Lee best exemplifies what the US Civil war was truly all about: States Rights. Not Slavery, but the right of Virginians to live their lives the way they thought best, not the way someone in Washington told them to live their lives.
And yes, that too was an act of moral courage.

Correct, I was trying to put the polarization of Lee in the starkest light.

Another interesting one is Jefferson who called slavery an abomination IIRC, but had slaves. It's easy to set back and look with our eyes at them, but we need consider all the factors they dealt with.

432 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:23:57pm

re: #417 jcm
Yep, John Fucking Kerry either betrayed his solemn oath as an officer and a gentleman and never disclosed or reported all those acts of barbarity that we infantry types committed in Vietnam, or he broke his solemn oath to the United States Senate and lied under oath about the "atrocities" that American Soldiers committed in grossly inflated numbers and equally grossly inflated times.
Either way, he betrayed his oath.
That is the act of a moral coward.

433 rw in san diego  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:26:06pm

Good night, all.

434 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:26:35pm

re: #425 cliffster
Indeed - " It's not easy being good right." Just touched that up a little for you.

435 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:27:37pm

re: #432 realwest

Yep, John Fucking Kerry either betrayed his solemn oath as an officer and a gentleman and never disclosed or reported all those acts of barbarity that we infantry types committed in Vietnam, or he broke his solemn oath to the United States Senate and lied under oath about the "atrocities" that American Soldiers committed in grossly inflated numbers and equally grossly inflated times.
Either way, he betrayed his oath.
That is the act of a moral coward.

Asshole.

Meeting with the NVA in Paris, while still commissioned and not reporting the contact as required. Best guess is that's why his discharge came out of a review board years later. (how I'd love to see that file)

Testifying when we withdrew the toll would be thousands.

Fracking asswipe.

436 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:28:07pm

re: #424 realwest

Thank you jcm. But Robert E. Lee didn't fight for evil; as he told Abe Lincoln, his reason for turning down Lincoln's offer (just after Ft. Sumter had been fired on and the Southern States had seceeded) was that he could never take up arms against his home state.
Robert E. Lee best exemplifies what the US Civil war was truly all about: States Rights

...to own and treat human beings like cattle.

437 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:28:29pm

re: #430 rawmuse
Yes indeed. In point of fact, Confederate dead were not allowed to be buried in Arlington Cemetary until many years after the Civil War and, iirc, it took an act of Congress to do it.

438 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:29:29pm

Yemen arrests 19 after U.S. embassy attack

DUBAI (Reuters) - Yemeni authorities have arrested 19 people suspected of being connected to al Qaeda and having links to Wednesday's attack on the heavily fortified U.S. embassy in Sanaa, Al-Arabiya television said on Thursday.

439 rawmuse  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:29:53pm

re: #437 realwest

I was born in Virginia. Still have most of my family there.

440 Bobibutu  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:30:19pm

re: #370 Killian Bundy

Jill Greenberg Dropped by Photo Agency

/what a shame

Ah - good things happening.

Made my day amongst others.

441 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:31:12pm

It interests me that the only time John Kerry ever stood up for anything in his life, ever, was to stand up in relative safety and slander his fellow servicemen (and women), after the fact, and far away from any direct consequences of his words.

That's it. He still beats Obama 1-0 in the "Things I Stood Up For" game, but in eight years of screaming about the evil RethugliKKKans, the best the Dems can do is Kerry and Zero. It's sad.

442 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:32:03pm

re: #236 Adina in Judea

Never said that they do. But for many them, interacting with women that are not part of their family is something that they will not do.

Uzi please come out of retirement!

443 Bobibutu  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:32:46pm

re: #431 jcm

Correct, I was trying to put the polarization of Lee in the starkest light.

Another interesting one is Jefferson who called slavery an abomination IIRC, but had slaves. It's easy to set back and look with our eyes at them, but we need consider all the factors they dealt with.

Let us not forget about taxes!

444 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:33:44pm

re: #236 Adina in Judea

Also, since it is not my country, my opinion is worth as much as a Frenchman's about the US election.

445 Syrah  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:34:45pm

re: #399 cliffster

Ok I'll bite - describe moral courage. Is that when I'm out of town on business, having a quite dinner by myself at the pub close to my hotel, and an attractive woman approaches me and I immediately turn her away, briefly showing her pictures of my wife and kids?

Moral courage is about doing what is right even when no one is looking, when you have no risk of being caught doing a pleasurable or profitable wrong, but you do right anyway.

In theory, it should be easy, in practice, we describe our failing as sin.

446 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:34:57pm

re: #436 Pawn of the Oppressor

...to own and treat human beings like cattle.

That's sad. With respect for your opinion, living and breathing men of the South gave their life for a greater cause than keeping people enslaved.

447 Bobibutu  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:35:29pm

re: #430 rawmuse

Lincoln rewarded him for his decision by confiscating his property and burying all the dead there, starting right next to the front porch. Today, it is known as Arlington National Cemetery.

Damn - I tried to upding that one twice ;-)

448 rawmuse  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:35:52pm

re: #445 Syrah

The Catholics would call it a "test of conscience".

449 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:36:25pm

re: #431 jcm
That is true, but to properly view Thomas Jefferson, you need to take into account that a) in the first draft of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson included a paragraph that provided that slavery would be illegal in these United States. It was stricken by Benjamin Franklin for, as Ben said to Tom, "we don't have much chance of winning this war for Independence as it is and with that paragraph in there, the southern colonies will never join us, and New England and New York alone cannot beat Great Britain." TJ reluctantly agreed. b) on four separate occassions, Thomas Jefferson tried to free his slaves, but was so in debt that his creditors took him to court to prevent him from so disposing of "valuable property" which could be used to help satisfy his debts with them and the courts agreed with Jefferson's Creditors every single time and c) as a member of Virginias House of Burgess, he introduced bills outlawing slavery in the Commonwealth of Virginia NINE times and every single time, his fellow members of the House of Burgress voted against Thomas Jefferson.

450 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:36:40pm

re: #446 cliffster

That's sad. With respect for your opinion, living and breathing men of the South gave their life for a greater cause than keeping people enslaved.

Slavery wasn't the casus belli of the Civil War. RW's right. The Confederacy was about being Southern and not being a Yankee. The fact that they had slaves was just... euphemistically a "tribal custom".

451 jcm  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:36:50pm

As usual it's been great but I have to check out.

“Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret.”
Robert E. Lee

452 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:39:00pm

re: #436 Pawn of the Oppressor

He was a gentleman and an excellent soldier. Always remember the story of one of the Confederate Troops being brought before him for some disciplinary action. The guy was very, very nervous and shaken. Lee asked him if he was so nervous because he was afraid that Lee might do the wrong thing, to which the guy replied that he was nervous because he was certain that Lee would do the right thing.

453 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:39:51pm

re: #433 rw in san diego

Oh hell, goodnight rw! Sleep well tonight!

454 Bobibutu  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:41:01pm

re: #449 realwest

That is true, but to properly view Thomas Jefferson, you need to take into account that a) in the first draft of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson included a paragraph that provided that slavery would be illegal in these United States. It was stricken by Benjamin Franklin for, as Ben said to Tom, "we don't have much chance of winning this war for Independence as it is and with that paragraph in there, the southern colonies will never join us, and New England and New York alone cannot beat Great Britain." TJ reluctantly agreed. b) on four separate occassions, Thomas Jefferson tried to free his slaves, but was so in debt that his creditors took him to court to prevent him from so disposing of "valuable property" which could be used to help satisfy his debts with them and the courts agreed with Jefferson's Creditors every single time and c) as a member of Virginias House of Burgess, he introduced bills outlawing slavery in the Commonwealth of Virginia NINE times and every single time, his fellow members of the House of Burgress voted against Thomas Jefferson.

Whoooopie Goldburg might have issues with that ...

455 Syrah  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:42:05pm

re: #419 realwest

Daylight again
Following me to bed
I think about a hundred years ago
How my Fathers bled

I think I see a valley
Covered with bones in blue
All the brave soldiers that cannot get older
Been asking after you

Hear the past a' calling
From Armageddon's side
When everyone's talking and no one
Is listening
How can we decide

Do we find the cost of freedom
Buried in the ground
Mother Earth will swallow you
Lay your body down.

I must have missed something. I find the last stanza . . . ambiguous.

Could you help me with this?

456 rawmuse  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:42:13pm

Goodnight, Lizards! Tomorrow's Trivia topic will be on organic chemistry.

457 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:43:14pm

re: #449 realwest

Franklin owned two slaves at one point in his life. After owning them, he came to understand that they were human beings little different than he was. I think (but am not sure) that he manumitted them. Adams never owned slaves and was one of the few signers of the declaration that did not.

458 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:45:33pm

re: #446 cliffster
Indeed they did. IIRC, something over 90% of the Confederate Armies were men who had never owned slaves and many of them, indeed, competed with slaves for work.
In Ken Burn's excellent documentary on the CIVIL WAR, the excellent historian Shelby Foote (RIP) cited an example from the diary of a Union soldier to the effect that he and four other Union soldiers were clearing a battlefield in Virginia after the fighting was over and came upon a badly wounded Confederate soldier who weakly tried to lift his rifle to shoot at them. They easily disarmed him - noting in passing his ragged uniform and lack of boots and said "You don't look much like a slave holder, why are you fighting us" to which he replied "Why, because you're hear!" and then died. Died for his State.

459 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:46:47pm

re: #451 jcm
Indeed jcm, it's been grand all, but I have to try and get some sleep tonight. I hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you down the road.

Good night, all.

460 Rancher  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:48:40pm

re: #438 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
ACLU has droped 40 lawers by parachute to meet the emergency.

461 Spirit93  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:48:54pm

re: #424 realwest

Can you tell me what law was passed or action of the federal government abridged states right before the south seceded?

462 realwest  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:50:11pm

re: #455 Syrah
I don't find it at all ambiguous - it means freedom isn't free and the cost of OUR freedom (the soldiers who cannot grow older) lies buried in the ground.
And btw, that's the song I've requested to be played at my funeral, instead of "Taps".

Now good night all.

463 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:52:01pm

re: #362 realwest

Hey Kragar! "John Kerry was in the Navy (so I've heard)" I'll betcha heard he served in Vietnam, too. I know he didn't talk about it much but he was there!
/

I walk away from a thread for an hour, and realwest leaves me a gift!

... ahem ...

Have mentioned recently that John Kerry is an idiot?

464 Rancher  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:52:12pm

re: #461 Spirit93

None, the right of succession was what the Confederate states were fighting for, something I think the Constitution allowed.

465 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:53:09pm

re: #462 realwest

I just got here, Realwest, and am not staying long but 'nite, sweet dreams and all the BEST to you.

466 DesertSage  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:53:35pm

So the Donald is endorsing McCain, huh?

467 DesertSage  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:55:08pm

re: #465 Pvt Bin Jammin

Hey PBJ, long time no see.

468 DesertSage  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:55:54pm

*taps monitor*

Is this thing on?

469 DesertSage  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:56:13pm

Hello?

470 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:56:26pm

Malkin's got the hacker's own story. Even the hacker is admitting there was nothing there concerning the alleged "doing government business".

471 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:57:18pm

OT : Associated (with terrorists) Press proudly impedes Secret Service:


Hackers break into Sarah Palin's e-mail account
Sep 17 09:11 PM US/Eastern
By TED BRIDIS
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Hackers broke into the Yahoo! e-mail account that Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin used for official business as Alaska's governor, revealing as evidence a few inconsequential personal messages she has received since John McCain selected her as his running mate.

"This is a shocking invasion of the governor's privacy and a violation of law. The matter has been turned over to the appropriate authorities and we hope that anyone in possession of these e-mails will destroy them," the McCain campaign said in a statement.

The Secret Service contacted The Associated Press on Wednesday and asked for copies of the leaked e-mails, which circulated widely on the Internet. The AP did not comply.

Gotta protect those sources from having their privacy invaded. Isn't just like the thuggish Bush administration to invade people's privacy!
/

472 Rancher  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:58:28pm

The Register says:

Memo to law enforcement investigators tracking down who broke into Sarah Palin's Yahoo email account: Gabriel Ramuglia might be a good place to start.
473 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:58:40pm

I just had to tell all of you that I just saw an AIG commercial! Don't know what channel as I was at a restaurant but I guess the Federal Reserve is now advertising!?

I got the bailout on our IRA but it seems weird.

474 DesertSage  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:58:56pm

"I could tell my parents hated me. My bath toys were a toaster and a radio."

- Rodney Dangerfield

475 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:59:01pm

Is it ok to hack into Nancy Pelosi's email? Just out of a sense of fair play you know.

476 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:59:09pm

re: #471 karmic_inquisitor

What's pissing me off is the "used for official business". It's bullsh*t. Even the hacker is saying there wasn't anything there! But hey- why let facts get in the way of spreading disinformation?

477 DesertSage  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:59:36pm

re: #473 Pvt Bin Jammin

I just had to tell all of you that I just saw an AIG commercial! Don't know what channel as I was at a restaurant but I guess the Federal Reserve is now advertising!?

I got the bailout on our IRA but it seems weird.

You saw that too?

478 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 10:59:39pm

re: #475 EIDE_Interface

No.

479 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:00:55pm

re: #477 DesertSage

Heh.

480 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:03:22pm

re: #461 Spirit93

Can you tell me what law was passed or action of the federal government abridged states right before the south seceded?

Taxation of southern products, going into and out of the country. Rights of the states to conduct business as they please.

And besides that, who gives a shit, they wanted independance and the northern army came in and decimated the coutryside in the south. By this barbarism (and hypocrisy) they kept the nation together.

481 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:03:37pm

re: #473 Pvt Bin Jammin

I just had to tell all of you that I just saw an AIG commercial! Don't know what channel as I was at a restaurant but I guess the Federal Reserve is now advertising!?

I got the bailout on our IRA but it seems weird.

AIG will probably be run in steady state for a while. It has a lot of profitable divisions that can make good money. Their problem was the derivatives / credit swaps and other leveraged bets they placed at the "clever person's casino" that they got caught up in. The US government may get its money back and a little extra once this settles out.

482 Syrah  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:04:20pm

re: #462 realwest

Ok.

I will think on it.

483 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:05:20pm

re: #476 Sharmuta

What's pissing me off is the "used for official business". It's bullsh*t. Even the hacker is saying there wasn't anything there! But hey- why let facts get in the way of spreading disinformation?

Get Cognito on the phone.

484 cliffster  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:05:55pm

re: #476 Sharmuta

What's pissing me off is the "used for official business". It's bullsh*t. Even the hacker is saying there wasn't anything there! But hey- why let facts get in the way of spreading disinformation?

What I want to know is, why wait for a story come out that can be distorted? It's clear that nobody is going to campaign for facts, or call people out on the interpretations of what's actually happening. So, why not just make shit up? If they did do that, would anybody notice? And for that matter, is that already happening?

485 Pvt Bin Jammin  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:17:28pm

re: #481 karmic_inquisitor

I hope you are right. It seemed like a pretty good company.

I like capitalists. They advertise. LOL

486 NY Nana  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:20:05pm

Got to go to sleep! Just one 2 year old grandson can easily wipe out 2 grandparents, but it was worth every second! But our daughter enjoyed herself immensely.

Has anyone ever seen anyone take strawberries and dip them in mustard, and then devour them? I thought not. Wish we had not been breaking up like that, as nobody got a photo, darn it!

/Hello, I must be going!

G'night, all, and sweet dreams!

487 Spirit93  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:33:14pm

re: #480 cliffster

You don't believe the federal gov't has the right to set tariffs? Your second point - "Rights of the states to conduct business as they please", I don't know what you mean. Of course having a federal gov't means the states can't always do what they want.

You point about independence goes to Rancher's #464. I'm not a constitutional scholar, but it seems strange that after all the argument and compromises that went into the Constitution that any state could just say "see ya".

As to the conduct of the war, well, it's a war.
One the south started.

488 YMedad  Wed, Sep 17, 2008 11:35:04pm

Yeah, but by 431 votes and as I blogged here earlier, she cheated by getting an extension to the voting time limit [Link: myrightword.blogspot.com...]

489 Throbert McGee  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 12:46:10am

re: #267 WriterMom

Not to brag, but I make the best kabab. I use ground beef, corriander, Israeli grilling spices, fresh ground pepper, salt and I usually throw in some hawaij spice too.

Mmmmm... I assume that you shape the spiced ground beef into patties and grill them on skewers? That's what the Turks call köfte. I've also had Afghan and Persian versions of ground-meat kebabs, but can't remember what those are called. Very very tasty, though.

490 Throbert McGee  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 12:51:27am

And hey, WriterMom, can you suggest any good Middle Eastern recipes for eggplants/aubergines other than baba ganoush? (I've got several eggplants from my patio garden and I made baba ganoush the last time I picked some, so I want to try something different.)

491 Throbert McGee  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 12:59:37am

re: #446 cliffster

That's sad. With respect for your opinion, living and breathing men of the South gave their life for a greater cause than keeping people enslaved.

Yeah, like the cause of expanding "the South" all the way to the Pacific, so that someday the children and grandchildren of poor whites could own Negro slaves, too.

John Derbyshire had a pretty devastating essay a couple years ago (IIRC), examining antebellum Southern newspapers that spilled oceans of ink selling lower-class whites on the economic fantasy of a vastly expanded slaveholding territory.

492 ashan  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 1:09:42am

Charles - the header of this item is incorrect. It's not "Israel Chooses a New Prime Minister". It's "30,000 Israelis (Out of 7 Milliion), Including Paid-For Arabs, Biased Media and Bought-Off Pollsters Choose a Same-Maybe-Worse PM".

Our only hope is that she won't be able to form a government and we'll go to national elections. The whole electoral system is non-representational and deeply corrupt and needs an immediate overhaul.

493 akak  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 2:11:54am

How awful for Israeli's.

494 nev.  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 6:01:30am

It is difficult to imagine picking anyone worse.

495 Lizard by the Bay  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 7:04:38am

Olmert with tits.

496 Lawrence Schmerel  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 7:50:00am

How disappointing. What a pathetic choice. Tzipi Livini is no leader.

497 mjwsatx  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 7:54:40am

As a Jewish American and an ardent Zionist I have always been interested in Israeli politics, but I have always figured that those who live in Israel know their politics best - so I have never taken Israeli politics much to heart. Until last year. Until I read that Tzipi Livni promoted changes in the Israeli education system that would teach Israeli Palestinian kids the "Palestinian version" of the formation of the Jewish state. Any Israeli politician who promotes the teaching of the Nakba to Israelis should be tried as a traitor to the Jewish State. I wrote a nasty email to an Israeli politician for the first time in my life and decided not to give any more of my money to the State of Israel until these fools were voted out of office.

This lady is bad news.

498 abba tov  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 7:57:19am

the different be twin olmaert & zipi . lipstick

499 abba tov  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 8:05:00am

between

500 NCusTranshumanist  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 8:05:22am

ggt

Ummm, yeah. I can't think think of a people in the dev'd world who are less needful of worrying about weight than the Japanese.

501 So?  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 8:06:52am

Well she better have balls, cause Russia is about to sell its RS-300 surface-to-air missile system to Iran. Which means Israel will have to act very soon to take out Iran's nuke plants.

Soon=yesterday

502 sparrowlake  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 8:42:06am

re: #492 ashan

Charles - the header of this item is incorrect. It's not "Israel Chooses a New Prime Minister". It's "30,000 Israelis (Out of 7 Milliion), Including Paid-For Arabs, Biased Media and Bought-Off Pollsters Choose a Same-Maybe-Worse PM".
Our only hope is that she won't be able to form a government and we'll go to national elections. The whole electoral system is non-representational and deeply corrupt and needs an immediate overhaul.

Too bad the Israeli religious parties are such a bunch of whores that they are willing make deals to prop up Olmert/Livni rather than force an election.

503 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 9:01:14am
504 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 9:29:58am

I read on Debka that Ehud Barak and Bibi Netanyahu are considering working together on a rotational national unity government - thereby shunting aside Livni and Kadima. Similar to the governments of the 1980s, each party leader would be PM for two years and then switch places. On second thought, who knows if two such massive egos can actually work together.

505 sleepypunk1111  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 11:31:06am

All we are going to see out of this broad is more pandering to the fifth columnists. We might even see disengagement or oslo part two.

There was this one guy who had this "radical" idea about transfering the malignant part of the population...whatever happened to that idea?

506 Adina in Judea  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 12:20:40pm

Tzipi Livni has no business trying to form a government and a new leadership from a Kadima primary that she won by only 431 votes in her own party.

The people need to be the ones to decide Israel's next PM.

Olmert got into the PM chair because of the former PM's illness. A primary election was never held to give him the leadership role in Kadima. Livni would get the PM's chair because of the crimes of the PM who got into the PM chair because of the illness of another PM. This would be ridiculous.

If Tzipi Livni insists she represents the people, then let her stand as a candidate in elections to prove it.

507 ashan  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 1:51:31pm

re: #497 mjwsatx

As a Jewish American and an ardent Zionist I have always been interested in Israeli politics, but I have always figured that those who live in Israel know their politics best - so I have never taken Israeli politics much to heart. Until last year. Until I read that Tzipi Livni promoted changes in the Israeli education system that would teach Israeli Palestinian kids the "Palestinian version" of the formation of the Jewish state. Any Israeli politician who promotes the teaching of the Nakba to Israelis should be tried as a traitor to the Jewish State. I wrote a nasty email to an Israeli politician for the first time in my life and decided not to give any more of my money to the State of Israel until these fools were voted out of office.

This lady is bad news.

While it's true that the execrable Tzipi Livni is "bad news", she
is not the person actually pushing this travesty of false history on Israel's youth. This person is Yuli Tamir, an extreme leftist former professor who is now the Minister of Education. She is intent on completely destroying what's left of an already miserable educational system. Her idea of good "education" is to completely politicize the system and destroy any vestige of Zionist history. When the children don't learn their own history, they won't be equipped to confront the lies and propaganda of our many enemies. Many parents agree that she should be removed from her position forthwith.

508 Adina in Judea  Thu, Sep 18, 2008 2:26:11pm

re: #507 ashan

This person is Yuli Tamir, an extreme leftist former professor who is now the Minister of Education. She is intent on completely destroying what's left of an already miserable educational system. Her idea of good "education" is to completely politicize the system and destroy any vestige of Zionist history. When the children don't learn their own history, they won't be equipped to confront the lies and propaganda of our many enemies.

This is what the Obamazoids would love to do to America's educational system.

They want to teach America's youth that America is bad and that America is hated for being bad. Leftists in Israel are trying to teach Israeli youth that Israel is bad and that Israel is hated for being bad.

Leftists think that all our enemies will fall on their knees to such enlightened people getting their message out, but in reality, our enemies use this as their talking points to explain and justify their intentions to destroy America and Israel.

It's the same bankrupt liberalism/socialism that exists among sick-minded liberals in both countries and elsewhere in the western world. It's cultural suicide.

509 Cosmic X  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 12:23:24am

I nearly fell on the floor after reading the headline of this post. I felt that I had to comment but Ashan #492 hit the nail on the head.

Livni is Kadima and Kadima is a party that was born in sin. May it quickly deteriorate!

510 Jed  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 3:55:21am

Carolyn Glick is a fraud and a crook.

Read Carolyn Glick: "Mrs. Clean is a fraud"
[Link: www.carolineglick.com...]

511 alkmyst  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 6:15:56am

re: #113 loggiedog

Hey man - it was good to see you!

About Livni:

Wow! Is my timing off, or what?

Judgement:

Not good for the Jews, as Caroline so eloquently put it. Another fraud.

512 WriterMom  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 6:40:27am

re: #489 Throbert McGee

Hi Throbert-no not patties, but kind of like thin lumps of charcoal. That way they don't get dried up when you bbq them. They only need a few minutes on the grill also.

As for eggplant, we like to cut medalions and then fry the eggplant medalions until they are golden brown, then put them on paper towel to absorb the excess oil. You can then drip some fresh lemon juice and sprinkle corriander on them (just what you are going to serve so they don't get mushy), and it's delicious with humous, and you can put them into sandiches or falafel, too.

There is an excellent eggplant dish that my Israeli relatives make-I'll see if I can find a recipe because I don't make it myself..it's cubes of eggplant with tomato and red pepper...I'll look around for it. I have also diced eggplant and sauteed it in olive oil, added garlic, fresh basis and/or oregano and a couple of plum tomates, spanish onion and used that as a pasta sauce.

PS: There are two kinds of babaganoush-you can make it with mayonaise, lemon and salt, or 'Greek' style, just lemon and salt, they are both delicious. Best thing is to grill the eggplant on a gas burner.

513 Doda McCheesle  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 11:31:02am

re: #505 sleepypunk1111
"There was this one guy who had this "radical" idea about transfering the malignant part of the population...whatever happened to that idea?"

You're probably thinking of Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L (Of Blessed Memory)...

He was murdered of course... by "deranged individual acting alone"... in other words, a muzlim terrorist shot him to death after Kahane was made a speech in the USA.

514 Doda McCheesle  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 11:32:18am

Livni is yet another unelected (by the populace) fraud who will continue the long policy of Israeli PM's acting in their own interests of power and money. At least she didn't have any balls to lose...

515 tsionguy  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 6:12:00pm

re: #61 Occasional Reader

Tim McGurk of Time Magazine also thought Livni wold make an excellent PM. As always, anyone Tim McGurk likes, I don't.

516 tsionguy  Fri, Sep 19, 2008 6:15:52pm

re: #510 Jed

Jed, move away from there! California's the place y'oughta be!
Caroline Glick has got more cajones than you ever will.


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