Who would ever have picked the Catholic Church as being the bastion of Non-PC thought these days?

Hello? Anybody there?

As the really rabid fundamentalists are also rabidly anti-Catholic, this won't change any minds in that camp.

re: #1 Sharmuta

Under Benedict? Me.

Yeah, stop all apologies, I'm sick of the kow-towing all over the place for everything. Get over it!

As a Catholic, I'm waiting for the government of France to apologize for the Terror, La Vendée, and the butchering of French priests in the streets of Paris.

For starters.

The Vatican?

/c'mon, Sarah's playing T-ball with Hannity again

...“Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session,”

Hear, hear.

“Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session”

Good thinking.

/or next thing you know, they'll be clamoring for reparations

re: #8 whiterasta Let's just all say I apologise to anyone that was ever offended and get on with Life.

I'm also waiting for Putin to apologize for Russia's wholesale slaughter and subjugation of Catholic priests.

Hasn't the Catholic Church apologized for the Crusades? If so, I wish they'd adopted this attitude earlier.

“Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session,” he said, adding that Darwin’s theories were “never condemned by the Catholic Church nor was his book ever banned”.

Yeah, I'm on board with that.

Concerning Mother Theresa- I would like to ask the Catholic Church how is it possible for a woman to be both a Saint and care for children?

/////

omg....old white dudes saying they are not going to apologize for something?

hmpf...just what till the 0bama is world ruler.
All your rascist cathedrals are belong to the 0ne.

While we're at it, I'd like an apology from Saudi Arabia for the wholesale slaughter and dhimmification of Roman Catholics, Copts, and all other non-Muslim religions under Muslim domination over the course of the last seven centuries.

re: #1 Sharmuta

Who would ever have picked the Catholic Church as being the bastion of Non-PC thought these days?

Me.

re: #10 willowone

If you apologize to me about your grampa's cow did a doodie in my great-gamma's fields, then you owe me money.....

I'd also like an apology from China for its continuing subjugation of Catholics.

re: #6 godfrey

Has the Spanish Left ever apologized for their forces' massacres of Catholic priests, gang-rapes of nuns, desecrations of churches and burial grounds, and similar atrocities during the Civil War of 1936-39?

re: #18 whiterasta

I'm still waiting for an apology from number 4 son for using my expensive bath bubbles for a bicycle wash.

But, naturally, I'm not holding my breath, and we all have our crosses to bear.

Most are heavier than mine.

I think the entire Western world should suspend all apologies for anything until Islam apologizes for, oh, about a hundred million things. And then Russia and China can issue a few hundred million apologies too.

actually if eveyone would apologise for what harm they Actually caused , changed behavior.the world would be a nicer place

re: #20 mikalm

Europe is built on the bones of our dead.

WOW ! It's amazing to see the Catholic hierarchy be on the progressive side for a change. Who knows they may actually reach the point I'd consider going back.

Only a few important theological issues they need to get sorted out first tho'.

- JR

i'm dreaming of course,and jumping to next thread

re: #26 splat

Why don't you just go and advise them.

re: #24 willowone

actually if eveyone would apologise for what harm they Actually caused , changed behavior.the world would be a nicer place

Well, we caused a lot of harm beating Japan and Germany. I hope we never apologize for it.

re: #16 godfrey

While we're at it, I'd like an apology from Saudi Arabia for the wholesale slaughter and dhimmification of Roman Catholics, Copts, and all other non-Muslim religions under Muslim domination over the course of the last seven centuries.

and Eastern Orthodox as well.

wait...Clinton and Wesley Clark helped the Muslims do a number on the Orthodox as well.

Let's just designate 2009 as International Year of Everyone Apologizes to Everyone For Everything And Gets It Over With.

I like that!

History is not a court, and apologies cut no ice.

re: #31 Occasional Reader

lol

And then right back into the frying pan, where we all belong.

I want an apology from Adriana Lima for not returning my phone calls.

The Church requires no one to take the Bible literally. Period.

re: #34 godfrey

I want an apology from Adriana Lima for not returning my phone calls.

She just rolled over and asked me to explain to you; it's that she thinks you're creepy.

Sorry.

re: #36 Occasional Reader

lol

It's okay. She's only the fourth-highest-paid model in the industry.

re: #36 Occasional Reader

LOL! now that was funny!

Meanwhile, I'm impatiently awaiting several apologies. Not sure from whom, or for what, but I feel like a victim, and the entire world must acknowledge that I WANT what what I feel I'm OWED!

/ 'scuse me why I switch the chip across; my shoulder's getting mighty tired...

“Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session,” he said,

Well, that completely undermines the DNC and community organizers

I want an apology from Cindy Sheehan for that time she wore the spandex bicycle shorts in public. I'm still traumatized by that image.

re: #16 godfrey

While we're at it, I'd like an apology from Saudi Arabia for the wholesale slaughter and dhimmification of Roman Catholics, Copts, and all other non-Muslim religions under Muslim domination over the course of the last seven centuries.

Don't hold your breath. Being Muslim means never having to say you're sorry.

I want an apology for apologizing.

re: #30 nightintheruts

and Eastern Orthodox as well.

wait...Clinton and Wesley Clark helped the Muslims do a number on the Orthodox as well.

But Pascha is "just a horse and pony show", why not bomb when only the devout are in the open?

Finally someone has the nerve to publicly say historical apologies need not be issued. I'm also tired of the small-mindedness and completely empty gesture of someone apologizing for someone else's actions that hurt someone that's been dead for centuries...

Maybe we can focus on making the world a better place for the living.

That one goes in the quote file.

And f u about the Crusades - remember Vienna would have been Muslim centuries ago if it weren't for the Catholics ;)

As the really rabid fundamentalists are also rabidly anti-Catholic, this won't change any minds in that camp.>

Creationism is all about saving the absent intellectual basis of fundamentalism: the heresy (yes) that the Bible is to be taken literally.

Fact is, the opening chapters of Genesis (about let there be light and so forth) really are a much more accurate portrayal of the Creation than any other religion has ever offered anyway.

'And there was light.' ((insert Great Space Kablooie here))

As for evolution, let me site the holy scripture of St. Mark Mothersbaugh, Album 1, Track 1:

God made Man
And he used the monkey to do it
Apes in the plan
We're all here to prove it
I can walk like and ape
Talk like an ape
Do what a monkey do
God made Man
but the monkey supplied the glue....

I want the Normans to apologise for invading Britain. I want the Norwegians to apologise for the vikings who raped my ancestors, I want the Romans to apologise for invading Britain, I want the Saxons to apologise for invading Britain. I want the Angles to apologise for invading before that.

I want UG the caveman for thumping my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandad with a club and stealing his freshly killed mammoth.

But It ain't gonna happen.

So whats your point? The Church has never claimed that the earth is six thousand years old. Neither does the Church proclaim that Adam was not an unique individual. The Bible quote reads " God created Adam". The verse goes on to repeat the same word for "Adam" . The English translation introduces (exchanges) the word "man' instead of repeating the original word 'Adam'.

re: #49 ploome hineni

the Crusades got very bad press

the goal was important, but there was no discipline, and too much unnecessary slaughter of people (Jews) on the way and in Jerusalem

I'm not sure that the goal was important. It was a spiritually misguided affair from the start.

re: #29 Tigger2005

Well, we caused a lot of harm beating Japan and Germany. I hope we never apologize for it.

If (God forbid) we end up with president obama, you can count on it.

re: #53 experiencedtraveller

I'm not sure that the goal was important. It was a spiritually misguided affair from the start.

Spiritually misguided? Perhaps. But strategically brilliant. By forcing the paynim to fight in the Holy Land we distracted them from conquering Europe for over 200 years. AND it got rid of large quantities of armored testosterone mucking up Europe at the time. (We D&D-overdosed geeks look with nostalgia at 'knights in shining armor' while forgetting that they were about as beloved by their contemporaries as are lawyers and tax-agents are today, for pretty much the same reasons.)

re: #51 wanglese

I want the Normans to apologise for invading Britain. I want the Norwegians to apologise for the vikings who raped my ancestors, I want the Romans to apologise for invading Britain, I want the Saxons to apologise for invading Britain. I want the Angles to apologise for invading before that.

I suppose you had no problems with the the Picts and the Celts then?

re: #53 experiencedtraveller

I'm not sure that the goal was important. It was a spiritually misguided affair from the start.

Just glad the muslim armies only took Constantinople and Jerusalem and not Rome - misguided? don't think so.

re: #6 godfrey

As a Catholic, I'm waiting for the government of France to apologize for the Terror, La Vendée, and the butchering of French priests in the streets of Paris.

For starters.

Yeah. Actually Catholics might want to apologize for the persecution and murder of Protestants all over the world starting in 1530. That might be the root of the prejudice and mistrust about the Pope in particular and Catholics in general that Protestants hold. A prejudice and mistrust that is now characterized as being bigoted.
Gee! An entire religion dedicates itself to abuse, torture and kill those of another and when the target religion retains some wariness and suspicion of the instigating religion, why that's unreasonable and uncivilized.

P.S. Don't recall any apology for THOSE actions.

re: #56 cicero05

I suppose you had no problems with the the Picts and the Celts then?

:-)

Them too!. And let me add, I want to apologize to the proto-human hominid who my proto-human hominid ancestor hit on the head with the bone, killing him, and taking the water.

It was wrong.

But this big Monolith thing made him do it.

That is just brilliant!

“Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session,” he said

Which is why I'm neither accepting nor outright rejecting the concept of a possible supreme deity until the jury gets back...

/drive-by post, lunch tiem. bbl

The hell with all this apology nonsense.

The evil men of the past are dead and the worms have eaten them and they have all, regardless of their religious status, received perfect justice at the hands of the Almighty.

Apologizing for them is stupid and useless. To quote the cartoon Cortez from "Cartoon History of the Modern World, Part I": "Whatcha gonna do? We dead!"

Apologizing also assumes that we bear ANY SPECIFIC GUILT whatsoever from their sins. We don't. And screw anyone who says we do.

Catholic Guilt takes on a whole new (non) meaning.

to fellow Catholics out there :)

What now? Who would they be apologizing to? Darwin? Somebody wants them to apologize to a dead man for not liking the dead man's ideas when he was alive even though they weren't alive at the time the ideas were put forth?

I dunt git it.

Well, it is kinda nice that the Vatican apologized to us Pagans for burning, hanging and drowning our religious ancestors before they established this new policy...;~)

The Vat has also issued a directive to bishops to ensure that the traditional, Hebrew, name of the Lord is never said or printed in any liturgical rite. Songs which already contain the name will have to be re-worked. Nice gesture to Jewish and Messianic believers.

I seriously doubt that Darwin cares one whit whether he receives an apology from the Catholic Church or not.

As an evangelical Protestant, I'd like to applaud this Pope. He seems eminently sensible. Apologizing to dead folks is just stupid. Most of "us" agree that evolution is how the world works, following God's plan. Science is the systematic investigation of the results of that plan, and allows us to make increasingly more accurate predictions of our interactions with the world around us.

I, and many other believers, get (maybe to an unreasonable extent) P.O.'d by the hysteria some, who are normally our friends, whip up about the tiny fringe of Christians who deny evolution. Such folk sometimes get lip service from local politicians seeking short-term gain, but almost no one takes them seriously. Pandering politicians will put forward "Creationist" proposals to gain favor with charismatic pastors in crucial districts, but without being so small-minded as to believe those proposals themselves (Hey, they're politicians!).

Anywho, I hope Charles doesn't block me again for pointing out that most evangelicals don't believe the world started four or six thousand years ago, or that dinosaurs were drowned in Noah's flood. I'm sure my prior drunken hysterical anger had nothing to do with it. 'Cause we Christians never get angry. Or drink. Or ... something like that.

Ya know, I here Stinky B. gets a kickback on his janitorial supplies. Isn't that what all those custodial types do? Or do they call that Beta testing?

Chimachukma? Neshobanakni

Splat said:
"It's amazing to see the Catholic hierarchy be on the progressive side for a change."

Do you mean progressive in a historical or political sense?

The Theory of Evolution is science, not politics, and I was taught it in a very politically conservative Catholic high school in biology class.

If you mean in a political sense, the Church finds itself on the side of "Progressives" all the time.

re: #68 Tom on the Rez

Apologizing to dead folks is just stupid.

“Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session"

It seems to me that the process of learning from history, at least in a proactive sense, must involve recognition of the mistakes and wrongs which have been perpetrated by man against his fellow man. If so, would it then not be necessary to explicitly teach that certain past conduct was wrong by today's standards? And following from the latter, if the historical wrongdoer was an organization or a political entity which still exists today, then would an apology not be a natural part of the learning process?

I can't dig up the verbatim quote, but before he was pope, Ratzinger said something to the effect that we look to science for the how, and to religion for the why.

I, and many other believers, get (maybe to an unreasonable extent) P.O.'d by the hysteria some, who are normally our friends, whip up about the tiny fringe of Christians who deny evolution.

'cuz that never happens here! Which is precisely why I have stayed away from Charles 'creationist'/'evolution' threads......

Solve all of this crap with a World Apology Day. I'm going to apologize to George Washington Carver for not eating enough peanut butter.

What difference does it make ? Ultimately we are in possession of ourt own mind and thoughts .
Evolution is a process of change natural to all living things . It's built into the dna , that in order to survive , the organism will adapt more perfectly to its surroundings .
SINCE WHEN WAS THE EARTH STATIC ?
One could say that creatures that oreiginated in water and thence evolved enough to leavre the water , because evolution [adaption] demande they escape from predation , thus become amphibious or fully a land creature , where the cycle simply repeated itself .
So whether a matter of predation or changes in the nature of a creatures environment , evolution/adaption will inevitably occur and at a rate too slow to see in anyones lifetime , but recognizable through the fossil record and the wide variety AND similarity of organisms observed and the similarity of changes according to the environment around them .

So this is not , nor ever was it a religious issue . The catholic church is merely expressing [and surprisingly ] COMMON SENSE .
If there is to be an argument between "evolution " and creationism , then THAT lies in the realm of the origin of the universe , NOT the origin of the species .

Whether Big Bang , Static , or Oscillating ....the question is WHO OR WHAT SET IT INTO MOTION ?

We can build a 10000 mile accelerator , and we'll be no closer to answering that than Aristotle or Plato .

It is easy to predict that the new accelerator will simply pose more questions than it will answer . It will only produce smaller and shorter lasting particles .

So that "big question " that everybody loves and hates to argue about , the one where we attempt to apply moral terpitude and a host of other meaningless attributes [pro-or con ] , can be best addressed with the statement - I DON'T KNOW , at least it's honest , and perhaps THAT is what should be taught in schools . And that is to deny neither , for evolution is an observable process and can be reached by empirical reasoning . And in reality only addresses the fact that creatures change according to best be suited for the environment in which they live .

As for the dna , it's qualities and its ability to sense and then act on the necessity to change ....THAT is the mystery which is unscrutable .That is the rrealm of CREATIONISM ....IT IS REAL ....JUST AS REAL AS EVOLUTION , BUT THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES .

Creationism IS , and ALWAYS was , a matter of faith . Faith needs no scientific confirmation . Else it would not be faith . There is no scientific reason for faith .It is intrinsic in the workings of the mind . Science goes as far as the Big Bang .....Science ends at that moment . No one that I know of can explain the origin or existence of that Singularity , which for whatever reasons became the Big Bang .

The Vaticans position is refreshingly LOGICAL ./

re: #58 jcw46

Yeah. Actually Catholics might want to apologize for the persecution and murder of Protestants all over the world starting in 1530. That might be the root of the prejudice and mistrust about the Pope in particular and Catholics in general that Protestants hold. A prejudice and mistrust that is now characterized as being bigoted.
Gee! An entire religion dedicates itself to abuse, torture and kill those of another and when the target religion retains some wariness and suspicion of the instigating religion, why that's unreasonable and uncivilized.

P.S. Don't recall any apology for THOSE actions.

Catholic Martyrs Under King Henry VIII
* Cardinal: John Fisher, Bishop of Rochester, 22 June, 1535.
* Lord Chancellor: Sir Thomas More, 6 July, 1535.
* Carthusians: John Houghton, Robert Lawrence, Augustine Webster, 4 May, 1535; Humphrey Middlemore, William Exmew, Sebastian Newdigate, 19 June, 1535; John Rochester, James Walworth, 11 May, 1537; Thomas Johnson, William Greenwood, John Davye, Robert Salt, Walter Pierson, Thomas Green, Thomas Scryven, Thomas Redyng, Richard Bere, June-September, 1537; Robert Horne, 4 August, 1540.
* Benedictines: Richard Whiting, Hugh Farringdon, abbots, 15 November, 1539; Thomas Marshall (or John Beche), 1 December, 1539; John Thorne, Richard James, William Eynon, John Rugg, 15 Nov., 1539.
* Doctors of Divinity: Thomas Abel, Edward Powell, Richard Fetherstone, 30 July, 1540.
* Other secular priests: John Haile, 4 May 1535; John Larke, 7 March, 1544.
* Other religious orders: Richard Reynold, Brigittine (4 May, 1535); John Stone, O.S.A., 12 May, 1538; John Forrest, O.S.F., 22 May, 1538.
* Laymen and women: Adrian Fortescue, Knight of St. John, 9 July, 1539; Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury, 28 May, 1541; German Gardiner, 7 March, 1544.

Catholic Martyrs Under Queen Elizabeth
* Martyrs connected with the Excommunication: John Felton, 8 Aug., 1570; Thomas Plumtree p., 4 Jan., 1571; John Storey, D.C.L., 1 June, 1571; Thomas Percy, Earl of Northumberland, 22 Aug., 1572; Thomas Woodhouse p., 13 June, 1573.
* First martyrs from the seminaries: Cuthbert Mayne, Protomartyr of Douai College, 29 Nov., 1577; John Nelson p., and S.J. before death, 3 Feb., 1578; Thomas Nelson, church student, 7 Feb., 1578; Everard Hanse p., 31 July, 1581.
* Martyrs of the Catholic Revival: Edmund Campion, S.J., Ralph Sherwin, Protomartyr of the English College, Rome, Alexander Briant p., and S.J. before death, 1 Dec., 1581; John Payne p., 2 April, 1582; Thomas Ford p., John Shert p., Robert Johnson p., 28 May, 1582; William Filby p., Luke Kirby p., Lawrence Richardson p., Thomas Cottom p., and S.J. before death, 30 May, 1582.
* York martyrs: William Lacey p., Richard Kirkman p., 22 Aug., 1582; James Thomson p., 28 Nov., 1582; William Hart p., 15 March, 1583; Richard Thirkeld p., 29 May, 1583.

Oh Gee , can you find any of those guys today ? You sound like a muslim looking for crusaders . Catholics and Protestants have killed each other for a numbers of reasons , for centuries , and most recently in Ireland , and the least of which was a view on evolution .

Oh wait ...isn't that what we're discussing here ?

I could care less about any alleged "martyrs " of centuries past , besides , that depends on who is writing the history .

The above post and the post to which it responded are irrelevant .

And to think , I thought the jihadis were the ones doing all the backward-looking .

Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session.

So, can we start referring the "slavery reparations" crowd here in the US to the Vatican for advice, now?

re: #58 jcw46

Yeah. Actually Catholics might want to apologize for the persecution and murder of Protestants all over the world starting in 1530. That might be the root of the prejudice and mistrust about the Pope in particular and Catholics in general that Protestants hold. A prejudice and mistrust that is now characterized as being bigoted.
Gee! An entire religion dedicates itself to abuse, torture and kill those of another and when the target religion retains some wariness and suspicion of the instigating religion, why that's unreasonable and uncivilized.

P.S. Don't recall any apology for THOSE actions.

The door swings both ways, my friend. i think in sweden they beheaded catholics regularly up until the late 1700s.

re: #76 Excaliber

Oh Gee , can you find any of those guys today ? You sound like a muslim looking for crusaders . Catholics and Protestants have killed each other for a numbers of reasons , for centuries , and most recently in Ireland , and the least of which was a view on evolution .

Oh wait ...isn't that what we're discussing here ?

I could care less about any alleged "martyrs " of centuries past , besides , that depends on who is writing the history .

The above post and the post to which it responded are irrelevant .

And to think , I thought the jihadis were the ones doing all the backward-looking .

The response with the list of martyrs was simply meant to point out that many Catholics died at Protestant hands, but they don't ask for apologies. It's INDIVIDUALS from both sides who were ultimately responsible. I think most historians would agree that Sir Thomas More died for his faith. What is done is done....let Protestants and Catholics and atheists and agnostics and Hindus and everyone stop with the blame and come together to oppose the aggressors of true evil. A house divided will fall...

The worst crime commited by the Catholic Church against an Intellectual was the burning at stake of the Magnificent Giordano Bruno

re: #75 jill e

Jill, Henry VIII was doctrinally and intuitively Catholic, remember his title Defensor Fidei was awarded by the Pope for critiquing Luther. He was savvy enough to use the Protestant groundswell to gain political and personal ends. As for the list of Marian martyrs (who were murdered not for political intrigue but for owning Bibles or daring to doubt the magic of the Mass) you know it is considerably longer than either the lists you've quoted. Mary was not called 'bloody' for nothing.

I don't seek an apology - vengeance belongs to Another - but the selective pleading for others to apologise is curious and hypocritical.

As to Rome's monkey business - it is absolutely characteristic of her age old tendency to syncretise, let us pray:

Our father was a gibbon,
Homology is our game,
Adaptive complexity must come,
Blind selection be done,
On Earth and even perhaps on Mars?!
Give us this day our miraculous mutation
And forgive us our redundancies
Whilst redundancy we reject in those we despise.
And lead us not into Lamarckianism
But deliver us from evil (as from good)

For thine is the big bang,
The peacock's feather, the dragonfly's eye
and everlasting futility,
Now and for as long as we make believe it.

Okay, ebed_melech—I'll try this one LAST time.

Catholics do not want apologies from Anglicans, or Lutherans or any other Protestant Church...we realize that individuals do bad things...there are Catholics who do bad things. Most certainly there have been bad Popes throughout history. There have probably at least 12 popes out of 266 who were morally corrupt. Benedict IX was a rotten Pope from 1032-1045 AD. He became Pope in his late teens and early 20s and was typical for his age—running around with many different women. He incited a riot in Rome because the people were fed up with him. Probably the worst pope was Alexander VI (1492-1503). He had several illegitimate children before and during his reign as pope. He was into bribery, deceit, debauchery and anything else you could imagine. Pope Innocent VII (1484-1492) and Pope Leo X (1513-1521) were from the Borgia and Medici families which were kind of like the Sopranos of the middle ages. They were infamous in Italy. These three popes contributed significantly to the unrest that led to the Reformation.

The Reformation did not escape many of the same kinds of corruptions that Catholics were accused. Martin Luther was disgusted with the conduct of many of fellow Protestants who had authority. Church historian John Laux writes:

...in his own Wittenberg, where Protestant Princes confiscated the wealthiest bishopbrics and monasteries for their own use…while the preachers often suffered the direst want. Irreligiousness, immortality and vices of all sorts flourished...

In a 1545 letter to his wife Martin Luther writes about the Reform...

Let us get out of this Sodom. I prefer to wander about homeless and to beg my bread from door to door than to poison my poor last days by the spectacle of all these disorders. We experience it daily that the people are seven times worse today than ever before under the Papacy; they are more avaricious, more unchaste, more envious, more intemperate, more dishonest...

Some will point to the bad popes as proof that God did not institute the Papacy with Peter. The Catholic Church claims that its teaching is infallible, but it does not claim that its PEOPLE are not indefectible. Even Jesus chose a bad disciple, Judas. We don't say "Hey Jesus can't be the Saviour, he had a bad disciple." Ten of the disciples deserted him. What is really amazing regarding the bad popes is that they stayed silent of issues of faith and morals. They could have defined all kinds of crazy doctrines in the name of their teaching authority, but they didn't. Catholics think this is a testimony in favor of the Papacy. These bad popes did not define any doctrines. Catholics think this is part of God's infallibility promise. Not only will God direct popes in their teaching, but He'll also shut them up about dumb (heretical) teaching too. Catholics believe God protected his Church during those periods when there were bad popes.

As a convert, I can tell you that understanding the Catholic Church from the outside is nearly impossible. I come from a long, long line of rapid anti-Catholics. I can tell you that every single idea or belief that I was taught about the Catholic Church was WRONG! I fought becoming a Catholic—for more than nine years I tried to find another answer—ANY other answer. I did not want to be Catholic. It has caused me endless personal trouble and heart ache. But the JOY far outweighs the sacrifice.

During his visit to New York, Pope Benedict XVI used St. Patrick’s Cathedral to point out the beauty of the Gothic-style cathedral’s stained glass windows, "which flood the interior with mystic light. From the outside, those windows are dark, heavy, even dreary. But once one enters the church, they suddenly come alive; reflecting the light passing through them, they reveal all their splendor."

ebed_melech—We are all in need of redemption...let's stop the accusations and stand together...

re: #82 jill e

time to come home to Rome boys and girls!Christianity needs a united front and lets face it....only one church can do that.PS see facebook group " the english reformation was a crime against humanity"....left the inquisition in the dust

I was scratching my arse and out crawled man, said GOD.
Then he said, I'll be nice to them and give em a DOG.

re: #84 GorgonBEgone

Gosh I'm stunned. Genius.

Oh wait. It was mine. MORON!

Never mind.

OTOH, how about a MAN for ALL REASONs?

What else is a POPE good for if not
papal infallibility?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I hate to BE a doubting THOMAS, more or LESS.

If KING Henry VIII (House of Tudor) hadn't needed
a Queen to produce a male heir, THINGs would have
been much different today. The USofA might still
be under their thumb? Yikes!

Testosterone plus ego with a dash of breeding
equals XXX. I know, i saw the tudors on showtime. LOL

Now look at what's come out in the royal DNA.

Diana screwed YYY and made Harry and now the
jig is up. LOL
But no dna test to test the will?

And the middle east daddy is up in arms.

How could he lose his
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Simply a great looking GUY.

Another roll of the GOD dice no doubt.
How come Allah didn't step in? Dodi without
72 virgins? Never?

Oh well. I'm bored cause I've got huMAN dna.

Want to play a game?

I'll bet you can't screw yourself.

Darn I lose again. Vote for an Obamanation in 2008.

I have no doubt that six degrees of kevin bacon holds up.

As a Catholic and whose kids go to Catholic school I can tell you the schools teach science as science and Religion as Religion. The kids are not being indoctrinated into a philosophy that is not normal or considered nutty. After all, Catholic schools out perform public schools every day of the week.

I also oppose intelligent design for these reasons:
1: Religion is a matter of faith not scientific proof.
2: Public school teachers would just screw it up anyway. God would be reduced to space aliens, ouji boards, and global warming.

re: #85 GorgonBEgone

WTF?

re: #87 Old Tanker

WTF?

This thread has become very odd... no wonder it has less than a hundred comments.

At least the Vatican has enough guts to begin facing up to past mistakes. It's too bad they have to do it in such a half-hearted way, though. Imagine the impact if they just fully embraced science and stuck to the idea that faith is what gives meaning to the physical understanding we achieve through science. What a recruiting tool that could be.

re: #87 Old Tanker

you said wtf?

as in

What the _____freak_____?

OK...... think NOT

Now thinking....

Deus Ex Machina COMES to mind....

In purely a papal sense as I am Catholic
if you didn't know.

One of them killed my ancestors.

No it's true. They were the french y pooo
popes.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Or are we deus ex roll of the dice?

Positron or electron universe?

Does the polarity switch from one to the next?

Or do we dwell in a multi-verse?

Side by side bowels?

Which takes me back to the God Dog thing. LOL

Yet do you realize that 10X's more life lives in your
Gi tract then cells in your body?

Are they good gut denizens or putrefactive
nazi little bastards?

The argument could be made that superior
life is inferior. If it's the mother to newer...
less evil life? Of curse if not ascendant to
XYZ.

Will they seed other higher life forms eventually?

Most likely.

Because if democraps can garner even 49% of
the vote it proves humans are worthless carriers
of life forms (lacti loving gut microbes) more deserving
of some kind of life then those on the dark side. LOL

Hey. Screw this.

I'm watching Roy Orbison on kpbs Tv.

I'll find the youtube version. He's cool.

Never mind it's not loading.

Ok here it is

I'll tell you this. I've seen stark naked reality.

Not a pleasant sight mind you.

Take my word, evil is out there where you least
expect it.

Try some evil apple pie if you don't believe me.

You'll be crying too...................

And if Obamanation becomes the pope or prez then all
bets are off.

This universe could implode.

But not likely.

In such a case will the repubs in congress grow
some nads and filibuster?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Once evil overtakes GOOD, all bets are off.

Want to join my group to defend truth? LOL

As to the curse.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[...]
Curse

It is said that Jacques de Molay cursed Philippe le Bel and his descent from his execution pyre. And, indeed, the rapid succession of the last Direct Capetian kings of France between 1314 and 1328, the three sons of Philippe IV, led many to believe that the dynasty had been cursed – thus the name of "The Accursed Kings" (Les Rois Maudits). Also, de Molay apparently challenged the king and the pope to meet him before the judgment of God before the year was over, although this story is recorded in no contemporaneous accounts of de Molay's execution. Philip and Clement V in fact both died in 1314. The 300 year old House of Capet collapsed during the next 14 years. This series of events forms the basis of Les Rois Maudits (the Accursed Kings), a series of historical novels by Maurice Druon. King Louis XVI was a descendant of Philippe le Bel by his granddaughter Queen Joan II of Navarre.

Quoting Templar Historian Malcolm Barber:

A variation on this story was told by the contemporary chronicler Ferretto of Vicenza, who applied the idea to a Neopolitan Templar brought before Clement V, whom he denounced for his injustice. Some time later, as he was about to be executed, he appealed 'from this your heinous judgement to the living and true God, who is in Heaven', warning the pope that, within a year and a day, he and Philip IV would be obliged to answer for their crimes in God's presence. (Ferretto of Vicenza, 'Historia rerum in Italia gestarum ab anno 1250 as annum usque 1318', c. 1328).[11]

"Jacques de Molay, thou art avenged!"

Another legend connects the climax of the French Revolution with the events surrounding de Molay's death, and figures prominently in Templar/Freemasonic conspiracy theories. According to Holy Blood, Holy Grail:
“ When the king's head fell beneath the guillotine, an unknown man is reported to have leaped onto the scaffold. He dipped his hand in the monarch's blood, flung it out over the surrounding throng and cried, "Jacques de Molay, thou art avenged!"[12] ”
[ended]

So, if I understand correctly, the Catholic Church is now more progressive than the Evangelicals.
I do believe I hear creatures of the swine persuasion performing aerial acrobatics outside my window.

re: #91 QuietusLeo

If their method of propulsion is methane don't
light a match.

Yet in some locales it might be considered
manna from heaven as the chicharrones
rain down on the land.

re: #90 GorgonBEgone

Thanks for clearing that up for me...........

re: #93 Old Tanker

you said:

Thanks for clearing that up for me...........

Fair shot tanker.

Did a pope kill your ancestors over 700
years ago as well?

And then did subsequent ancestors become
Catholic over 100 years ago?

History of this sort , is at best nothing more than a cesspool of what we were . There was no "good " group , the scientists of the time , were by no means the saints of sorts , nor were theire persecutors . We deal with the here and now , based on knowledge we now know .The past is just that , the Japanese no longer cut the heads off strangers landing on their shores , the German church no longer burns witches for bad weather , the Brits no longer draw and quarter criminals.
The vatican statement was so appropo , history is not an ongoing trial .....unfortunately it is for some .
Get over it and move ahead .