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IPT: Washington Post Puts Target on Prosecutor's Back

US News | Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:35:03 am PDT

The Washington Post, once again, is on the wrong side of the battle to expose jihadis in the United States: Washington Post Reporter Puts Target on Prosecutor’s Back.

Many have chronicled the odd relationship between the Western media and the forces of radical Islam, perhaps the starkest incident being the refusal of almost the entire mainstream media to publish the Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed, even as a wake of destruction and series of violent threats were unleashed by religiously motivated mobs as a result.

While fear of threats and reprisals were clearly a motivating factor in that case, there are other instances where the motivation is slightly harder to divine. A recent case in point is Washington Post reporter Jerry Markon. In an article titled “Relentless Terrorism Prosecutor Faces Accusations of His Own,” Markon has carelessly bought in to an Islamist propaganda campaign against one of America’s finest and bravest prosecutors, Assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Kromberg of the Eastern District of Virginia.

Markon trots out the complaints of a convicted terrorist operative and a coterie of his defense lawyers that Kromberg’s actions are somehow driven by religious bias rather than a desire - and a duty - to hold criminals accountable for their actions. The result of Markon’s “reporting” is to put a target on Kromberg’s back and to scare off government lawyers from taking similar cases targeting criminal radical Islamists - lest reporters from major newspapers accuse them of religious bigotry and stymie future career prospects or higher government appointments.

Success breeds contempt, and Kromberg’s track record, which includes not just locking up Islamic terrorists, but other major criminals like FBI spy Robert Hanssen and United Way CEO William Aramony, speaks for itself. But let’s look at Markon’s vacuous treatment of one of the terrorism prosecutions:

“Kromberg’s highest-profile case since joining the office’s new terrorism unit after Sept. 11 was what prosecutors called the ‘Virginia jihad network,’ 11 Muslim men convicted on such charges as preparing for holy war by, among other things, playing paintball. Justice officials hailed it as a classic post-Sept. 11 case of prevention, but civil libertarians and some Muslims said it targeted Muslim men.”

Markon’s fixation on the paintball aspect is nothing more than an attempt to belittle the significance of what happened. Of the 11 defendants, six pled guilty and three were found guilty of terrorist related charges. Most had, in addition to, yes, training in Northern Virginia with paintball guns, also trained at Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) camps in Pakistan for the purpose of joining the Taliban to fight against U.S. forces in Afghanistan. LeT was designated by the U.S. government as a terrorist group in 2001 after its violent takeover of the Indian parliament.

Read the whole thing...

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178 comments

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1 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:58am

RoP = S.O.B = Western Media appeasers

2 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:37am

Maybe if this fool had a close encounter with a jihadi nut job he'd change his tune, but I doubt it. He'd do the moral equivelance thing and say the jihadis are just misunderstood youts! I guarantee that if these paintballers had been neonazi, or some sort of fundamentalist last days cult the WaPo would have had conniptions about 'right wing' terrorists.

3 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:45am

To some Islamic radicals are less of a threat than those who believe in individual liberty.

4 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:42:49am

I have a problem when people say things like this:

"The government should know that when they appoint Zionist Jews that this kind of thing will happen. Or maybe that's why the appoint Zionist Jews. Bush had more of them around then even Clinton. Why not appoint KKK members to oversee programs for black youths or rapist ex-cons to staff shelters for battered women?"

Blame it on the jooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos.

5 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:11am

Well, that's one way to wake up.

Good article. Now, is the Post paying attention?

Oh, who am I kidding?

6 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:22am

at some point we may have to consider how much money is changing hands btw these msm traitors and the jihadis they nurture and protect.
these anti-american cheerleaders for terror may be getting rich, trying to bring our country down.

7 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:14am

re: #4 lone_wolf_in_illinois

Yeah, I can see that.

8 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:24am

OK, where's the coffee & Do-nuts.

I'm here

9 NR Pax  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:31am

re: #3 jcm

To some Islamic radicals are less of a threat than those who believe in individual liberty.

May they learn otherwise before something bad happens.

10 pegcity  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:48am

I smell another Hamas Op-Ed

11 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:45:32am

re: #9 NR Pax

Something bad did happen and it has gone down the collective memory hole of the left.

12 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:45:35am

re: #7 Dianna

are you feeling better this morning?
:)

13 NR Pax  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:46:48am

re: #11 pingjockey

Point. I should have said "Again" but I plead coffee deprivation.

I remember showing someone the "Fitna" movie and he insisted that it was "someone with an agenda misrepresenting Islam." Some folks you just can't reach.

14 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:47:36am

re: #8 Dustoff-507

OK, where's the coffee & Do-nuts.

I'm here

I've got a cup of mocca java and a bowl of fresh fruit. I'd share if the internet let you do that sort of thing.

15 JohnSteele  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:48:20am

While most of America is fighting the war at the shopping mall and the American military is at war fighting the terrorists and their enablers, the America media is at war fighting America.

Seems only fitting somehow.

16 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:48:32am

re: #3 jcm It's because with Individual Liberty comes individual responsibility
and it's amazing to me to see how comparatively few folks are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions/inaction.
Have you ever seen those ads on TV for an insurance company (Liberty Mutual) where folks help other folks out JUST BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO - like keeping someone who's walking along the sidewalk wearing headphones from stepping into oncoming traffic and getting run over? I LOVE those ads, but a friend of mine who is with the company that made those ads said that they weren't all that popular - most folks in the focus groups "didn't get it" - but they are keeping the ads on because they do - for whatever reason - keep the company's name in the back of the consumer's mind.

17 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:49:15am

re: #8 Dustoff-507

OK, where's the coffee & Do-nuts.

I'm here

Hey Dustoff, coffee service sucked this morning. pre-Boomer Marine brat offered me instant warmed up in the microwave.

18 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:49:25am

re: #12 nyc redneck

are you feeling better this morning?
:)

Some. I slept decently last night, and only had one sort of hallucinatory waking dream (I hate steroids and codeine). I've fed and walked dogs, made coffee, and left the Male asleep upstairs, so I guess I'm getting better.

The real test will be this afternoon.

19 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:03am

re: #13 NR Pax
Coffee deprivation is a justifiable defense! So now that the beast, biden and their handlers have cowed the liberal Jews, who is gonna speak at the anti-I'maddinerjacket rally? Farfur?

20 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:32am

re: #18 Dianna

glad to hear it.

21 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:44am

re: #14 Dianna

What kind of fruit? 9-;

22 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:53am

(-:

23 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:58am

re: #17 jcm
GAAAAAAAH!

24 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:51:36am

After reading this excellent analysis, and recalling the various trials in your and my country against muslim terrorists, especially their outcome and the way the lawyers for the defendants work and use the MSM - I think its time for a clear cut, in both our countries:
Give them the choice: stand trial here, without shenanigans - or be deported immediately, with no come-back.

Actually, I'm for deportation, and strip them of their citizenship. Doesn't matter if they acquired it through birth or through an administrative act.

25 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:51:48am

re: #17 jcm


OOOOOOOOOOO-so wrong. LOL

26 NR Pax  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:51:51am

re: #19 pingjockey

I think bringing Farfur back from the grave might disturb some folks.

27 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:52:16am
the refusal of almost the entire mainstream media to publish the Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Mohamed, even as a wake of destruction and series of violent threats were unleashed by religiously motivated mobs as a result.

No jokes allowed.
Mo walked into a Turkish bath and ....

ROP just blew up the Marriott hotel in Pakistan.
40 killed and more missing.

2,000 lbs of explosives
76 virgins for the driver

28 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:52:54am

re: #21 Dustoff-507

What kind of fruit? 9-;

Cantaloupe, strawberries and peaches. No sugar.

29 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:53:08am

JCM

Last night went pretty good with my NY lib friends.

We stayed at Ivars for 2 hours and had a nice Obama/McCain fight. (-:

30 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:53:42am

re: #18 Dianna

Some. I slept decently last night, and only had one sort of hallucinatory waking dream (I hate steroids and codeine). I've fed and walked dogs, made coffee, and left the Male asleep upstairs, so I guess I'm getting better.

The real test will be this afternoon.

I'm glad you had a reasonably good night, and are on the way of getting better.

What is this real test about, then?

31 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:54:01am

re: #28 Dianna


I'll be right over. And bring my spoon too.

32 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:54:44am

re: #26 NR Pax
Who? I'm all for disturbing any and all islamist terrorists, phakestinians, and any other RoPMAs any time, any where.

33 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:06am

re: #29 Dustoff-507

JCM

Last night went pretty good with my NY lib friends.

We stayed at Ivars for 2 hours and had a nice Obama/McCain fight. (-:

Sounds, good maybe they'll do some thinking!

34 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:25am

re: #27 ibmkeyboard

No jokes allowed.
Mo walked into a Turkish bath and ....

ROP just blew up the Marriott hotel in Pakistan.
40 killed and more missing.

2,000 lbs of explosives
76 virgins for the driver

Aww - but its Ramadan, innit, where the ROPers are extra peaceful, innit ... like it said in the article ...

35 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:42am

re: #30 yma o hyd

I tend to start coughing and feeling really weak in the afternoon. If I make it through the noon walk, and can do some gentle exercise without feeling like I've been through two hours of martial arts, I will decide I'm definitely on the road to recovery.

Damned bronchitis.

36 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:43am

re: #8 Dustoff-507
Hello my friend - the coffee and donuts were snarfed up by those of us who've been up and posting for hours now, sleepyhead!
How are ya doing today - or is it too early for you to say?!
;')

37 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:56:20am

re: #34 yma o hyd
Let me guess, most of the dead are 'fellow' islamists?!

38 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:56:33am

re: #27 ibmkeyboard

No jokes allowed.
Mo walked into a Turkish bath and ....

ROP just blew up the Marriott hotel in Pakistan.
40 killed and more missing.

2,000 lbs of explosives
76 virgins for the driver

Due a mistranslation of the Quran he finds a 72 year old virgin.

39 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:56:42am

re: #33 jcm


Maybe... I had them going about Obama money people. (Ranies) How odd, they didn't know this guys past. 0-:

Shocked I tell-ya, shocked!

40 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:56:50am

re: #14 Dianna
Hey hi {Dianna} - sure hope you're feeling better this morning!

41 LeonidasOfSparta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:57:17am

"but civil libertarians and some Muslims said it targeted Muslim men.”

Defense attorney for the fox, caught in the hen-house with feathers around his snout, complained that farmers were targeting foxes for the recent raids on hen-houses throughout the county, raids that have led to the deaths of hundreds of hens.

The Prosecutor in the case against the fox was charged with unfair species profiling and the case by various and sundry barnyard onlookers.
Soon other prosecutors began to think that catching and prosecuting foxes for their crimes would pit them, also, against barnyard grandstanding by the pigs whose snouts were deeply embedded in the feed troughs on the nights of the hens' deaths but were nonetheless vocal in their opposition of the office of the prosecutors and any tactics that might bring the foxes to justice for their crimes.

Pig Protests were planned and carried out. Prosecutors were left holding the "egg basket" and the raids continued, unabated and unpunished.

The hens were left unprotected and the farmers were on the brink of bankruptcy.

Oink oink.

42 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:57:58am

re: #36 realwest


SLEEPY-HEAD.... them are fighting words buddy. LOL

Had a great evening with two lib friends form NY. What a night

43 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:14am

re: #35 Dianna

I tend to start coughing and feeling really weak in the afternoon. If I make it through the noon walk, and can do some gentle exercise without feeling like I've been through two hours of martial arts, I will decide I'm definitely on the road to recovery.

Damned bronchitis.

Yep - cursed stuff, bronchitis.
Its the fact that one has to 'sit it out' which is so annoying.

Honey&Glycerine Linctus is my stand-by.

44 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:18am

re: #39 Dustoff-507

Maybe... I had them going about Obama money people. (Ranies) How odd, they didn't know this guys past. 0-:

Shocked I tell-ya, shocked!

I got a couple of guys a at work thinking when I ran down the radical left politics of all of Obama influence from mom to Wright.

45 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:23am

re: #38 jcm


LOL..... O-my

46 alegrias  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:45am

This is standard operating procedure for the WashPost, whose former editor Ben Bradlee "earned his chops" helping bring down President Nixon. Bradlee's wife Sally Quinn is in charge of "On Faith" in the Saturday WashPost where CAIR gets a free soapbox to spew and play victim.

It's been barely a week since the first September 11th memorial was opened at the Pentagon, which was attacked here in Northern Jihadist Virginia, in the county of Arlington, a sanctuary country where illegality is encouraged.

Moonbat democrat Jim Moran "leads" this pathetic parade of conspiracy-minded leftists who blame the US first, and "neocons" and Jewish groups such as AIPAC for inviting the 9/11 attacks, and play the "why do they hate us?" game.

These leftists and the defeatist WashPost, hate the "Rocket Docket" Virginia court system or anyone who wants to fight terrorists.
* * *
They hate McCain's FIGHT WITH ME mantra.

47 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:45am

re: #24 yma o hyd
Good morning - er, afternoon to you! Great post!

48 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:48am

re: #41 LeonidasOfSparta
Always unamed civil libertarians(idiots) and some unamed muslims.

49 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:59:03am

re: #38 jcm

Due a mistranslation of the Quran he finds a 72 year old virgin.

Oh Shit,
I just had a minor stroke.

/You will spend eternity with this.

but.. but .. I a Christian

50 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:59:21am

re: #40 realwest

Getting there, realwest!

51 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:59:48am

re: #44 jcm


How blind they are.

I heard yesterday on our news here. They are talking income tax again! 0-:

52 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:00:26am

re: #43 yma o hyd

I usually take lots of vitamins, and throw in some echinacea and goldenseal. It didn't work this time in staving it off.

Just the way it goes, sometimes.

53 Racer X  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:00:51am

re: #38 jcm

Due to a mistranslation of the Quran he finds a 72 year old virgin.

LOL!

Karma is a bitch!

54 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:01:58am

re: #37 pingjockey

Let me guess, most of the dead are 'fellow' islamists?!

They are only getting what was coming to them, for staying in that symbol of infidel capitalist oppression, the Marriott Hotel.
Should've been staying in a proper islamic institution ...

It will be interesting to watch how that new Pakistani governmetn is going to deal with this - and how long it'll be until the Pakistani Army installs a new dictator from their ranks to clean up.

55 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:07am

re: #51 Dustoff-507
Typical leftist crap. The economy ain't so hot. I know, lets' raise taxes!
The last budget was what, 2 trillion bucks and we can't find anything to cut?!

56 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:30am

re: #37 pingjockey
Hi ya ping! I made the same sorta comment on the DT this morning. Defile a Koran or publish cartoons of Mo and you're DEAD. OTOH, murdering other Muslims is apparently ok.
No, I don't even pretend to understand it.

57 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:35am

re: #52 Dianna


You know that your body uses only a small amount of the vitamins that you take. A blows the rest off. Not that you shouldn't take them.

58 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:57am

re: #54 yma o hyd
Yep. I figure that is already in the works.

59 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:08am

re: #18 Dianna

Some. I slept decently last night, and only had one sort of hallucinatory waking dream (I hate steroids and codeine). I've fed and walked dogs, made coffee, and left the Male asleep upstairs, so I guess I'm getting better.

The real test will be this afternoon.

What happened? I guess I've been so wrapped up in my own medical stuff this past week, I've missed some of the chatter here.

60 alegrias  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:37am

re: #37 pingjockey

Let me guess, most of the dead are 'fellow' islamists?!

* * * *
Remember how AlQaeda lost support in Jordan after they bombed a hotel causing horrible deaths, and the splodey wife of the other splodey was caught with her splodey vest unexploded?

Moslem on moslem violence, what a way to win hearts.

61 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:40am

re: #42 Dustoff-507
Had a great evening with two LIBERAL friends from NYC?
Uh, were they both female and just how liberal were they?!
;')

62 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:04:20am

re: #55 pingjockey


Yes our Gov in this state is blaming GW for her own overspending?

Gezzzz let me off this train.

63 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:04:48am

re: #56 realwest
Mornin' RW! I do not understand either and what's more I do not want to understand that mind set. I'll just remain willfully ignorant in my thought that we wipe out islamist terrorists when ever and where ever we find them.

64 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:22am

re: #49 ibmkeyboard

Oh Shit,
I just had a minor stroke.

/You will spend eternity with this.

but.. but .. I a Christian

We'll just have to elected Obama and you'll be cured!
//

65 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:47am

re: #47 realwest

Good morning - er, afternoon to you! Great post!

Hi there, rw!
And thank you very much for your kind words!

Lovely autumn day here - the Labour Party have started their annual conference, tearing each other and Gordon Brown apart.

66 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:56am

re: #62 Dustoff-507
Where are you at?

67 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:59am

re: #61 realwest

Man & female. Their daughter is going to college here.
Very lib... But I did a great smack down with them last night.

I made JCM proud! (-:

68 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:06:26am

re: #50 Dianna
I'm glad to hear it - I actually read above my post how well you were doing - comparitively until your afternoon walk, anyway - after I posted my comment to you!

69 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:06:41am

re: #51 Dustoff-507

How blind they are.

I heard yesterday on our news here. They are talking income tax again! 0-:

If Gregoire gets re-elected we'll have our 8.9% sales tax and an income tax.

70 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:07:28am

re: #66 pingjockey

Washington state.
The land of trees, rain, rain and more rain!

71 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:07:43am

re: #57 Dustoff-507

I know, but with martial arts and how busy I am (and how badly I eat), I figure I need all the help I can get. Particularly when I'm getting sick, or having an allergy attack.

72 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:07am

re: #69 jcm


Were screw*d if she does.

73 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:25am

re: #60 alegrias

* * * *
Remember how AlQaeda lost support in Jordan after they bombed a hotel causing horrible deaths, and the splodey wife of the other splodey was caught with her splodey vest unexploded?

Moslem on moslem violence, what a way to win hearts.

That was the beginning of the end for Al Qaeda in Iraq.

/maybe the Pakistanis will put an end to this also.

74 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:29am

re: #70 Dustoff-507
Me too. I'm over here on the eastside. What idiot is talking about a stae income tax?

75 mac6443  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:31am

I just read that the group that was planning the rally against Iran was threatened by an IRS audit by some high powered Democrats. Reason was: If they did not pull Gov. Palin's invitation.
Has any one else come across this story? I know big media shows no signs of knowing about it.

76 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:52am

re: #52 Dianna

I usually take lots of vitamins, and throw in some echinacea and goldenseal. It didn't work this time in staving it off.

Just the way it goes, sometimes.

A brilliant natural antibiotic are cranberry pills - I take them in high doses for a few times, works quite well.
Not advisable if one is on blood-thinning medication, though.
I sincerely hope you're on the way out of this - it is a real drag!

77 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:09:04am

re: #72 Dustoff-507

Were screw*d if she does.

Look on the bright side, by 2012 they'll still be studying the 520 bridge project.
////

78 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:09:24am

re: #75 mac6443

I just read that the group that was planning the rally against Iran was threatened by an IRS audit by some high powered Democrats. Reason was: If they did not pull Gov. Palin's invitation.
Has any one else come across this story? I know big media shows no signs of knowing about it.

Link?

79 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:09:45am

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

What happened? I guess I've been so wrapped up in my own medical stuff this past week, I've missed some of the chatter here.

I got bronchitis. My doctor hit me with a pharmaceutical club, but the bronchitis laughed at it, so she hit me with a bigger pharmaceutical club. Then the bronchitis got dramatic, I got dragged to the ER, and I'm now consuming medications at a positively frightening rate.

That's the summary version. I'm getting better is the good news.

80 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:09:59am

re: #70 Dustoff-507
I should have figured, you said you ate at Ivars'. D'oh.

81 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:10:11am

re: #71 Dianna


WOW... time to pull your foot off the gas . Just a little

What type of Martial arts?

82 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:10:59am

re: #74 pingjockey


Ahhhhh the sunny side. (I hate you) LOL

Some of the top dem's

83 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:38am

re: #67 Dustoff-507
Well if y'all made jcm proud then I reckon you made me proud too!
I've done the same sort of thing and you know what? It's almost TOO EASY to smack down Obama. It's just not fun after you get past his 130 days in the US Senate, I mean all there really is to talk about - in terms of Obama's experience - is his work as a community organizer! And it's hard with friends who are Democrats Leftists, cause they are always so earnest about it until you ask 'em about Obama's experience to qualify as POTUS!

84 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:48am

re: #80 pingjockey

Yes we have a nice one on the water. But you also pay for the view too $$$

85 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:52am

re: #82 Dustoff-507
What dems? Y'all got them on the wet side!

86 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:12:25am

re: #74 pingjockey

Me too. I'm over here on the eastside. What idiot is talking about a stae income tax?

The usual Olympia and King. Co. suspects.

Hey, state revenue is going up by 8% again this year, but doncha' know The Queen and her court have increased spending by 12%. Since it's obvious with a $3 billion deficit the issue must be they are not collecting enough taxes!

/L3

87 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:12:44am

re: #84 Dustoff-507
There's another one besides downtown Seattle? Holy seafood!

88 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:12:55am

re: #79 Dianna

I got bronchitis. My doctor hit me with a pharmaceutical club, but the bronchitis laughed at it, so she hit me with a bigger pharmaceutical club. Then the bronchitis got dramatic, I got dragged to the ER, and I'm now consuming medications at a positively frightening rate.

That's the summary version. I'm getting better is the good news.

Good on the getting better, Gee, I've never heard of someone having to go to ER because of bronchitis (but that's just me).

89 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:12am

re: #83 realwest


The guy is a loser. I just hope McCain well keep on hitting him.
And really goes after Ranies and other dem's who help to make this huge mess.

90 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:23am

re: #70 Dustoff-507

re: #74 pingjockey

Me too. I'm over here on the eastside. What idiot is talking about a stae income tax?

DEMS ,, lets try this again

Romney (R) was Governor of Massachusettes. He CUT taxes, Revenues went UP
Patrick (D) is now Gov of Mass. He RAISED taxes ,,

(you can see where this is going )
[Link: www.boston.com...]

Patrick ponders big cuts as state revenue tumbles

91 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:53am

re: #85 pingjockey


LOL sorry. Don't know their names. I was to pissed after I heard income tax.

92 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:14:29am

re: #87 pingjockey

Could be. I don't go into Seattle at night unless I'm armed.

93 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:14:32am

re: #86 jcm
I fear as long as the I-5 corridor has us farmers, loggers, hunters and other clingers out numbered, Olympia will continue to be D.C. on the Sound.

94 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:14:33am

re: #75 mac6443
Yes, it was discussed and linked to several times yesterday.
"big media shows no signs of knowing about it." That's only because it shows the Democrats Leftists for who they truly are: bullies who believe in free speech only when that speech supports them or their "programs" and "ideas".

95 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:06am

re: #92 Dustoff-507

Could be. I don't go into Seattle at night unless I'm armed.

you go other places without your arms? Do you at least have your legs and feet with you?

96 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:29am

re: #88 Walter L. Newton


I've taken many to the ER. It can hit fast & hard.

97 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:31am

re: #92 Dustoff-507
Well the original Ivars was down on the waterfront, didn't know there was another one.

98 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:32am

re: #90 sattv4u2

re: #74 pingjockey

DEMS ,, lets try this again

Romney (R) was Governor of Massachusettes. He CUT taxes, Revenues went UP
Patrick (D) is now Gov of Mass. He RAISED taxes ,,

(you can see where this is going )
[Link: www.boston.com...]

Patrick ponders big cuts as state revenue tumbles

Kennedy cut taxes, revenue went up.
Reagan cut taxes, revenue went up.
Clinton cut taxes (the Gingrich congress pushed him), revenue went up.
Bush cut taxes, revenue went up.

Nope, no pattern detected......
/

99 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:39am
100 Irene NYC  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:42am

re: #75 mac6443

I just read that the group that was planning the rally against Iran was threatened by an IRS audit by some high powered Democrats. Reason was: If they did not pull Gov. Palin's invitation.
Has any one else come across this story? I know big media shows no signs of knowing about it.


Yeah, I'm so disgusted I might not go.

101 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:51am

re: #81 Dustoff-507

WOW... time to pull your foot off the gas . Just a little

What type of Martial arts?

Hapkido. Sort of a Korean take on Akido.

102 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:01am

re: #93 pingjockey

Yep. )-:

103 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:09am

re: #78 MandyManners
Afternoon Mandy - as I said above, it was all over the comments here - I think Michelle Malkin had something on it at Hot Air.
How are you today?

104 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:23am

re: #95 sattv4u2


LOL, OK you!

105 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:27am

re: #98 jcm

Kennedy cut taxes, revenue went up.
Reagan cut taxes, revenue went up.
Clinton cut taxes (the Gingrich congress pushed him), revenue went up.
Bush cut taxes, revenue went up.

Nope, no pattern detected......
/

I don;t see one either (so says Stevie Wonder)

106 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:59am

re: #92 Dustoff-507

Could be. I don't go into Seattle at night unless I'm armed.

I don't go at all unless armed.

The Seattle City Clowncil has the cops hamstrung.

107 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:03am

re: #104 Dustoff-507

LOL, OK you!

wha !?!?!?!?!?

/sly grin

108 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:09am

re: #103 realwest
PS - if you search for littleoldlady I think she found the website where the "Jewish" group that got Palin disinvited was bragging about it.

109 rawmuse  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:58am

re: #75 mac6443

I just read that the group that was planning the rally against Iran was threatened by an IRS audit by some high powered Democrats. Reason was: If they did not pull Gov. Palin's invitation.
Has any one else come across this story? I know big media shows no signs of knowing about it.

That was a typical Cinton-era tactic. Expect more of it in the future, regardless of who wins, IMHO.

110 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:17am

re: #106 jcm
Did you see some fool made a movie 'honoring the WTO rioters? Probably an alum from St. Pancake U. AKA Evergreen State College.

111 merrytexas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:18am

Dianna, I feel your plight. I had it for 2 weeks, finally minimal coughing. Lots of strong coffee helped ye olde bronchial tubes.

112 Nevergiveup  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:29am

re: #100 Irene NYC

Yeah, I'm so disgusted I might not go.

I think that Sarah and McCain should just show up

113 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:32am

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

Good on the getting better, Gee, I've never heard of someone having to go to ER because of bronchitis (but that's just me).

Well it turns into pneumonia or asthma with the further closing of the airways, plus other complications ... apparently very common for people with chronic asthma to need to run to the ER, and there have been a number of pneumonia-inducing viruses running around the last few years. Had one myself and stayed out of the ER by the skinniest of margins, if I had any sense I would have gone.

114 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:44am
115 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:45am

re: #101 Dianna


Nice. I've done some of that and Tae Kwon Do for many years.

116 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:01am

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

Good on the getting better, Gee, I've never heard of someone having to go to ER because of bronchitis (but that's just me).

It's called a bronchial spasm. Really scary.

117 yma o hyd  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:15am

Blast at the Marriot Hotel in Islamabad, report by The Times, and report by the Beeb.

Just to show how peaceful the ROPers are, in their 'holy month' ...

118 Nevergiveup  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:29am

re: #108 realwest

PS - if you search for littleoldlady I think she found the website where the "Jewish" group that got Palin disinvited was bragging about it.

I am glad you put "jewish" in parentheses. Not in MY NAME they don't!

119 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:20:08am

re: #106 jcm


True... I know a few cops there. They really hate them.

120 merrytexas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:20:10am

Walter, hope you're on the mend. I'm in the DFW area. I remember your post about the JFK museum because my son had a teacher who helped with it.

121 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:20:52am

re: #110 pingjockey

Did you see some fool made a movie 'honoring the WTO rioters? Probably an alum from St. Pancake U. AKA Evergreen State College.

I saw that. I think a good one would focus on Mayor Schell and Chief Stamper's utter criminal malfeasance and incompetence.

122 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:21am
123 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:34am

re: #119 Dustoff-507

True... I know a few cops there. They really hate them.

It's almost to the point of making an arrest is abuse.

124 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:35am

re: #116 Dianna


When you can't breathe. It's gets your attention real quick.

125 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:43am

re: #121 jcm
But, but, they're donks, they couldn't have done anything wrong.

126 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:52am

re: #114 ploome hineni
Yeah I know, but there was a Jewish group - "J -new" or some such that was bragging about threatening to pull the charity's tax exemption or try to, if Palin spoke and no Dem was there. And of course the Dem's couldn't find ANYONE to show up and talk at that rally.
Just unbelievably disgusting.

127 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:22:19am

re: #99 ploome hineni

Dianna

have you considered allergies causing some of the bronchial problems?

do you have rugs, carpets at your house?

what kind of pillows you use ec?

washing detergent?

We have hardwood, with oriental rugs; I use hypoallergenic pillows (and they get washed regularly), and I use unscented everything. The big issue is the cat. I'm very allergic, and he loves me. I wash after touching him, and we've gotten it through his little orange head that he can't sleep on my pillow.

We have to wash all - but all - of the bedding twice a week, but the Male wants the cat, and I'm attached to the little bugger, too.

128 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:32am

re: #121 jcm


Did you know that Stamper's was from San Diego. He wanted to be chief but they said no. He was hated by his own officers!

Real kiss ass!

129 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:55am
But Markon, naturally, fails to chronicle the nature and the circumstances surrounding those anti-Semitic attacks. They appeared on the blog of Al-Arian defense attorney, Jonathan Turley. Here is one example:
"The government should know that when they appoint Zionist Jews that this kind of thing will happen. Or maybe that's why the appoint Zionist Jews. Bush had more of them around then even Clinton. Why not appoint KKK members to oversee programs for black youths or rapist ex-cons to staff shelters for battered women?"

As a result of this and other similar comments, the presiding judge chided Turley, who pledged to refrain from posting entries about the Al-Arian trial, something not mentioned in Markon's article.

Wasn't Turley, like, still a human being, back as late as the Clinton impeachment?

130 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:38am

re: #126 realwest
Yep and from what I've seen the Jewish vote is damn near as monolithic voting liberal as the blacks. Truly amazing. We've seen what Jimmah and Billy Jeff did for Israel and here's another donk who'll sell Israel down the river in a minute.

131 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:41am

re: #123 jcm


O-yeah. Why even have them. I couldn't do their job.
Like fighting fires, but you can't use hoses?

132 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:45am

re: #125 pingjockey

But, but, they're donks, they couldn't have done anything wrong.

Fookin' moron's had meetings with the protester's and bought the "peace protest" line. And since the protest was going to be peaceful had minimal plans for violence.

133 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:22am

re: #126 realwest


I saw that too RW.... NUTS!

134 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:30am

re: #131 Dustoff-507

O-yeah. Why even have them. I couldn't do their job.
Like fighting fires, but you can't use hoses?

I wouldn't last long, I do something over the line......
like enforce the law.

135 merrytexas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:35am

And this, dear people, is why wiretaps are necessary

Fort Dix Suspects Sought Other Targets

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

136 Nevergiveup  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:44am

re: #126 realwest

Yeah I know, but there was a Jewish group - "J -new" or some such that was bragging about threatening to pull the charity's tax exemption or try to, if Palin spoke and no Dem was there. And of course the Dem's couldn't find ANYONE to show up and talk at that rally.
Just unbelievably disgusting.

I am so revolted by this, I don't know what to say. And I am suppose to go to a birthday party for my moonbat sister tomorrow with some of her moonbat friends and some of my moonbat family. G-D I don't think there is enough liquor to get me thru that with out exploding. Oh, I will probably get stuck with the bill.

137 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:01am

re: #131 Dustoff-507

O-yeah. Why even have them. I couldn't do their job.
Like fighting fires, but you can't use hoses?

Fires have rights too!
/

138 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:03am

re: #132 jcm
Yep, I really trust people who go to protests wearing masks, don't you?!

139 kynna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:12am

The Washington Post is so despicable. It's like they're racing the Chicago Tribune for second place in the Worst Enemy of Freedom contest. The winner of course, is clearly the NYTimes, which has lapped them.

140 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:23am

re: #111 merrytexas

Dianna, I feel your plight. I had it for 2 weeks, finally minimal coughing. Lots of strong coffee helped ye olde bronchial tubes.

I'm going easy on the coffee because of the steroids and codeine, but yeah, it does help.

141 Nevergiveup  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:40am

re: #130 pingjockey

Yep and from what I've seen the Jewish vote is damn near as monolithic voting liberal as the blacks. Truly amazing. We've seen what Jimmah and Billy Jeff did for Israel and here's another donk who'll sell Israel down the river in a minute.

That is not true anymore. Recent polls in the state of NY show McCain pulling ahead of Obama with the jewish vote.

142 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:40am

re: #127 Dianna


Moth to a flame Dianna? 0-:

Good luck.

143 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:55am
144 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:07am

re: #141 Nevergiveup
That is good news. Thank you.

145 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:17am

re: #131 Dustoff-507

O-yeah. Why even have them. I couldn't do their job.
Like fighting fires, but you can't use hoses?

re: #137 jcm

Fires have rights too!
/

BIG HOSE IS RIPPING US OFF!

146 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:28am

re: #135 merrytexas
The groups name is J Street and I was right about Hot Air: [Link: hotair.com...]

147 pingjockey  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:53am

re: #145 sattv4u2
Ban H2O!

148 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:25am
149 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:35am

re: #136 Nevergiveup


LOL. I feel for ya buddy. Having to fight with two libs last night wore me down

150 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:09am

re: #122 ploome hineni

From Huffington Post?!

A miracle has occurred!

151 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:30am

re: #141 Nevergiveup

Uh, do you have any links to those polls showing McCain up on Obama in NY? Closest I've seen is Marist poll which shows Obama up by only 5% in NY.

152 Nevergiveup  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:55am

re: #149 Dustoff-507

LOL. I feel for ya buddy. Having to fight with two libs last night wore me down

My wife didn't tell me until this morning, otherwise I would have tried to move heaven and earth to be scheduled for Reserve Duty this weekend!

153 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:03am

re: #145 sattv4u2


LOL

Your making my day.

154 Josephine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:29am

re: #35 Dianna

{Dianna}

155 merrytexas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:10am

re: #146 realwest

I'm surprised the group didn't retract their invitation to Palin as soon as Hillary reniged. What took them so long?

156 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:29am

re: #152 Nevergiveup

You sure there isn't some DITCH you need to dig. 0-:

157 Nevergiveup  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:35am

re: #151 realwest

Uh, do you have any links to those polls showing McCain up on Obama in NY? Closest I've seen is Marist poll which shows Obama up by only 5% in NY.

Not up in the state. That Marist poll appears accurate. But in that poll or another-might have been Rassmusen- it showed McCain winning the JEWISH vote by about 15 points.

158 Dianna  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:52am

re: #143 ploome hineni

what a price to pay!

do you have air filters/purifiers?

Ionic breezes. It helps.

159 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:46am

OK you fine people. I need to go.

Time for my run to keep this 50+ yr old body from falling apart.
Have a great weekend and stay safe. (damn it's raining outside)

C-ya.

160 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:34:30am

re: #158 Dianna

The ones that give off a static charge?

161 alegrias  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:35:15am

re: #112 Nevergiveup

I think that Sarah and McCain should just show up

* * *
Piss off Ahmedinejad another way--Sarah Palin will meet Afghanistan's president Hamid Karzai while he attends the UN meetings soon. John McCain will introduce her.

Plus Sarah can meet Iraq's president.

Iran's neighbors on either side.

162 merrytexas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:24am

re: #161 alegrias
McCain/Palin, the class act that they are, will meet leaders and listen rather than give policy advice to foreign dignitaries, unlike The One Traitor.

163 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:34am

re: #153 Dustoff-507

LOL

Your making my day.

checks, cash or credit card numbers can be sent to SATTV4U2 , at ,,,,

164 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:57am

re: #35 Dianna

I tend to start coughing and feeling really weak in the afternoon. If I make it through the noon walk, and can do some gentle exercise without feeling like I've been through two hours of martial arts, I will decide I'm definitely on the road to recovery.

Damned bronchitis.

My asthma got steadily worse every year. Constant Bronchitis. Constant sinus infections, so much so that I even went to the doctor to ask about the smell of rotting flesh that I found had become pervasive. He said it was related to the sinus infections and that I was reacting to something in the environment. (He hinted that I should consider moving out of the area.)

My asthma was worse, it seemed, when the winds were blowing from north to south off the bay and the salt ponds that are out there. I realized that almost every time I went out to the Alviso Marina or the other salt marsh bird sanctuaries around the south bay that I would suffer terrible asthma attacks later in the day.

Moving to the Puget Sound area hasn't cured my asthma but my attacks are much less frequent and I haven't had Bronchitis since I left San Jose nearly ten years ago.

I think that I was reacting to the Salt Ponds and drying process.

165 Josephine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:10am

re: #126 realwest

I received an email from The Israel Project that started out:

"This week the Holocaust-denying president of Iran will attend the United Nations General Assembly in New York City. While we are pleased that there will be events around the country to protest the threat of Iran, The Israel Project was not a part of inviting, or uninviting, any candidates to rallies in New York. Thus, we have removed our name from these events. Indeed, we are a non-partisan, non-profit educational organization that does not rate or endorse candidates."

166 neocon hippie  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:22am

I think it was the Siena poll that had McCain up by some huge number over Obama with the Jewish vote in NY. But IIRC the sample size was quite small.

Rasmussen has Obama up by 13% in the state.

167 Dustoff-507  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:00am

Dianna

If your filters give off a static charge they make O-zone.
I was reading one of my medical papers a year ago about these machines.
And have been somewhat linked to making people to have breathing problems. If you have a small problem breathing the ozone they give off can make if far worse.

You may wish to check into more.

168 alegrias  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:44:02am

re: #162 merrytexas

McCain/Palin, the class act that they are, will meet leaders and listen rather than give policy advice to foreign dignitaries, unlike The One Traitor.

* * *
Hi Merry Texas-- Well, McCain/Palin at least know who's a friend and who's a foe!

I'm enjoying seeing Spanish president Zapatero whining that McCain won't invite him to the White House, if elected. Spaniards are tearing their appeaser socialist leader a new one, for having made them such a laughingstock, after Zapatero dissed the US flag, dissed President Bush, supported John Kerry openly, and took Spain's troops out of Iraq in 2004.

Don't Mess with Texas, don't mess with the US! Go, McCain/Palin, beat terrorists.

PS, today McCain is celebrating his 50th anniversary reunion at the Naval Academy, for the 1958-Is Great class!

169 gunjam  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:53:50am

What is Markon's real agenda, I wonder? Is he a moonbat? Or, is he a jihadist catechumen. Where does he spend his Friday evenings?

I wonder.

170 merrytexas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 10:03:46am

re: #168 alegrias

oooo, I had to go listen to an interview with McCain where he was asked about Zapatero. She kept pressing him. Other questions and answers were right on, too!

[Link: www.cadenaser.com...]

Attaboy, John!

171 mac6443  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 10:37:26am

Bronchitis....Heck try fighting throat cancer for 35 years and at one time in remission for 20years. Have it come back in 06 and now radiation twice a day for 6wks. No voice....no food...no taste buds...feed myself through my stomach. Last day was last Monday.
Get a staff infection this week...back to have tubes moved and drained. Sunburned on the inside..2nd degree.

I own CVS....LOLOLOL

The good part of all this.. I get up each day..and say thank you... I get to read one of my fav blogs and now get a chance to participate. I go to bed and say thank you again hoping to see another day and all of you.

Mac
Tolland,CT

Oh

Get well with that Bronchitis you can get upper respiratory problems fast.
My thoughts go out to for a speedy recovery.

172 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 10:38:39am

re: #38 jcm

Due a mistranslation of the Quran he finds a 72 year old virgin.

You are very, very bad.

=^0

173 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 10:43:55am

re: #117 yma o hyd

Blast at the Marriot Hotel in Islamabad, report by The Times, and report by the Beeb.

Just to show how peaceful the ROPers are, in their 'holy month' ...

A bombing a day, at this rate.

"It's beginning to look like Ramadan, ev'rywhere you go..."

174 jhn1  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 10:59:05am

Well, and to add the point, paintball is a pretty poor tool for military training (I have played off and on since -87)(and was involved in discussions with twits that led to the Florida Camp Blanding military base site mistake)
Paintball has certain differences that lead to very bad habits that are learned much more quickly than most of the potential good habits are learned.
1) paintball guns are quiet, and with the modern ported barrels even more so than gunpowder, ears ringing, Real gun situations in which you likely can't hear people noises after a few rapid gunshots much less communications, without sound pulse plugs or something similar.
2) limited "play area". in real life there is no "out of bounds". This changes things.
3) limited time. for the game, nobody wants to wait that long to play, or having been "killed" they do not want to wait that long to play again. The current President of Iran "played" hostage taker for over a year straight during the Carter presidency. the short time of paintball games changes things.
4) just about anything stops paintballs. an intact shower curtain works fine. Somebody behind an old bush will find that the twigs and branches making up the bush break open the paintballs preventing penetration quite well. I bet the US Forces wish the terrorists hid behind bushes for cover. Another bad habit.
5) paintballs move relatively show, and without real gun muzzle flashes paintballs can be seen on their way to the target, That means they can be "walked in" by adjusting the aiming point like every shot was a tracer round. Not every real gun bullet is a tracer.
6) accuracy and accuracy/range and absolute range. Really bad. large size and slight mass means that velocity is lost pretty quickly. The 25 yard "drop" of less than 2 feet at 290fps leads to a "drop" of more than 75 feet at 75 yards, with an accuracy "circle" exceeding 15 feet at the 75 yard range. And coming in that slow, with a little time for reaction you can dodge ( in "tests" the US Marshals under Marshal Mike Potter did -at the Tampa Days Inn motel that was torn down to make way for the courthouse expansion a number of years back- they concluded that "realistic" range was less than 40 feet, but at least 10 feet.) a very narrow gap for "realistic" training.
7) Paintball guns have significantly different operational gestures and ergonomics than real guns. From the large to huge propellant tanks (between 2 and 5 inches diameter) to the overhead paintball "hopper" what you are holding feels, holds, and handles differently than a real gun. From the motion of opening up a tube and pouring the paintballs into that overheadhopper to the handling of that much weight that far above the center of gravity of the gun the very feel of things is different. the player has to watch out for sludged barrel or breach (from the fragile shells breaking open in the mechanism) because then the "aimed" balls are not going anywhere near the aiming point.

All habits significantly different than the use of real firearms.

Teamwork, not panicking under return fire, not getting "tunnel vision" under adrenalin, are things that paintball can teach. But LEO experience under various organizations is that the bad habits are picked up more quickly than those good habits are learned. That left paintball with almost no use in training. A few years back I was told that it was down to use by the USMC in boarding actions and repelling of same.
Short hallways limiting range and most every wall is bullet resistant.
Metal walls reverberate noise especially if unported markers are used.
Out of bounds is off the ship. walk through, Laser gear, last practice only with paintballs

Anybody other use is just performing for the egos of the participants involved (like the Palestinian "police" jumping through fire rings) and is of no major utility to the tasks beyond discussion, planning, walk throughs, and adrenaline training (and basic gun handling and aiming skills)

175 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 11:15:31am

re: #173 Spiny Norman

A bombing a day, at this rate.

"It's beginning to look like Ramadan, ev'rywhere you go..."

We have White Christmass, with snow on the ground, burning yule-time logs and carolers at the door.

They have Red Ramadan, with blood on the ground, burning cars or buildings, and sirens in the streets.

A contrast to be sure.

176 baconeatingkaffir  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 11:33:25am

re: #175 Syrah

My brother was telling me that the guys he was serving with in Iraq began to call the season "bomba-dan" which is more accurate.

177 Hucbald  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 6:27:20pm

I hate lawyers and think there's hardly a problem in this country that can't be laid squarely at their feet, but this is reprehensible. Lawyers are working up to the second lowest form of human life in my reckoning, just above journalists and below the police. Or, alternately, perhaps it's journalists who are working their way down... yeah, that's it, because I haven't seen any reforms coming out of the bar assholeciations, just a lot of plumbing of new depths by journalists.

178 bullskin  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:38:11pm

Someone posted this Cicero's quote time ago and I think It should be repeated anytime media shows it's the second enemy.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the carrier of the plague. You have unbarred the gates of Rome to him."


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