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Creationism Surfaces in North Carolina

Science | Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 7:19:27 pm PDT

Another attempt by creationists to slip their religious agenda into science classrooms, this time in Brunswick County, North Carolina: Brunswick school board to consider creationism teaching.

The Brunswick County school board is looking for a way for creationism to be taught in the classroom side by side with evolution.

“It’s really a disgrace for the state school board to impose evolution on our students without teaching creationism,” county school board member Jimmy Hobbs said at Tuesday’s meeting. “The law says we can’t have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists.”

When asked by a reporter, his fellow board members all said they were in favor of creationism being taught in the classroom.

The topic came up after county resident Joel Fanti told the board he thought it was unfair for evolution to be taught as fact, saying it should be taught as a theory because there’s no tangible proof it’s true.

“I wasn’t here 2 million years ago,” Fanti said. “If evolution is so slow, why don’t we see anything evolving now?”

The board allowed Fanti to speak longer than he was allowed, and at the end of his speech he volunteered to teach creationism and received applause from the audience.

The State of North Carolina’s Department of Public Instruction is not impressed: No place for creationism in science class, state says.

Keep creationism out of science class, the state school system says.

At its meeting Tuesday, the Brunswick County school board began discussions on teaching creationism alongside evolution – something all four board members present showed a strong interest in. The talk began after Joel Fanti, a parent and graduate of the school system, told the board that he considered it a problem to teach evolution as a fact and that science teachers should include creationism in the curriculum, as well.

The audience applauded. The school board and staff said they would research whether creationism is allowed in the classroom.

But neither creationism nor the related “intelligent design,” which says life forms are so complex only a higher power could have created them, may be taught as a required course of study, Edd Dunlap, science section chief for the N.C. Department of Public Instruction, said Wednesday. These are considered religious teachings and may not be taught in science class or as fact, although they may be included as part of an elective, such as a course on religion or philosophy, he said.

While evolution is a course of study that must be taught in public schools, based on national standards, creationism is not, Dunlap said. Brunswick, New Hanover and Pender counties all follow the evolution curriculum.

“If you’re teaching something not in the standards, you’re not teaching what students need to be assessed on,” Dunlap said.

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1 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:20:36pm

I thought creationism just appeared and it was evolution that surfaced and grew legs...

2 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:21:30pm
“I wasn’t here 2 million years ago,” Fanti said. “If evolution is so slow, why don’t we see anything evolving now?”

I don't think logic is this guy's forte.

3 nightintheruts  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:21:57pm

so Fanti is saying nothing evolves in NC?

4 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:22:10pm

Faith is faith.
Science is science.

Science does a far better job of staying in science than faith does.

It's time people of faith recognize the boundaries of faith, and respect the boundary of science.

5 NC State of Mind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:24:09pm

Wow. I actually know the main science teacher at this high school. She is a hardcore Obama supporter and has always been very liberal on all ranges of issues. This is suprising. Most people there are laid back beach folk.

One 20 year old I know there has never ventured beyond the county line in his life and says he has no plans to do so.

6 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:24:24pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

You are far too diplomatic. The man is a dumbass.

7 NC State of Mind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:25:25pm

re: #5 NC State of Mind

Main biology teacher I should have said.

8 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:26:50pm

Maybe we should SUE to get Evolution Science taught in churches as 'religion'...

9 nightintheruts  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:28:10pm

re: #4 jcm

Faith is faith.
Science is science.

Science does a far better job of staying in science than faith does.

It's time people of faith recognize the boundaries of faith, and respect the boundary of science.


The two can actually be considered together but separately without trying to tear the other down methinks...
Can't we all just get along?

10 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:29:50pm

re: #4 jcm

Faith is faith.
Science is science.

Science does a far better job of staying in science than faith does.

It's time people of faith recognize the boundaries of faith, and respect the boundary of science.

If there is a difference between religion and science, one or both is wrong.

Hard to argue with.
I'm not wanting "the discussion" again, but this is why I joined.

11 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:30:47pm
But neither creationism nor the related “intelligent design,” which says life forms are so complex only a higher power could have created them, may be taught as a required course of study, Edd Dunlap, science section chief for the N.C. Department of Public Instruction, said Wednesday.

/doesn't look like it's going to fly

12 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:31:10pm

re: #10 jwb7605

Get on!

Quite a quote there, JWB! :D

13 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:31:54pm

re: #9 nightintheruts

The two can actually be considered together but separately without trying to tear the other down methinks...
Can't we all just get along?

They can, and I do. BUT, we need to have clarity first.

Faith is not science. What I believe Biblically and spiritually I can not explain in science, nor do I expect to.

There can be an intelligent middle ground of discussion.

But the creationism push currently underway is not it.

14 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:32:30pm

re: #10 jwb7605

If there is a difference DISAGREEMENT/ARGUMENT between religion and science, one or both is wrong.


/closer to the spirit of the idea?

15 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:33:40pm

re: #14 Karridine

/closer to the spirit of the idea?

Exactly.

16 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:33:54pm
Keep creationism out of science class, the state school system says.

Well, at least the state school system seems to have some sense.

“If you’re teaching something not in the standards, you’re not teaching what students need to be assessed on,” Dunlap said.

Nor are you teaching what students need to learn.

17 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:34:12pm

re: #10 jwb7605

If there is a difference between religion and science, one or both is wrong.

Hard to argue with.
I'm not wanting "the discussion" again, but this is why I joined.

I believe in the Creator.
I also believe in His Creation.
I believe we were given the capacity to discover and understand His creation.

I also believe in the Bible.
That we have the capacity to understand it.

Where there is conflict it is not what creation tells us, or what the Bible tells us.
It is our understanding that is flawed.

18 nightintheruts  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:35:08pm

re: #13 jcm


Agreed. But where would we find the intelligent middle ground to discuss it with?

Everyone just wants to "argue and get in their face" about everything now.

19 davinvalkri  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:35:49pm

Hurray for people with spines! We desperately need more of them.

Oh, and as for the ID v. Evolution debate--one's theology, the other's science. They shouldn't be overlapping.

20 Desert Dog  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:35:59pm

OT

Robert Fisk - Why Does the US Think It Can Win In Afghanistan?

Well, that's coming straight from the horse's mouth (or is it jackass?). I guess we should just surrender now and get it over with. The mighty Taliban is too much for the US Armed Forces. I really hope Obama does not win now, because part of what he is saying is true, the Taliban has had a bit of a resurgence. If they bloody our noses, even ever so slightly, I am sure President Obama will turn tail and run, handing that entire region over to the guys with the black turbans and the medieval mindset.

21 Steffan  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:36:06pm

re: #9 nightintheruts

The two can actually be considered together but separately without trying to tear the other down methinks...
Can't we all just get along?

In his Incarnations of Immortality series, Piers Anthony pointed out that creationism and evolution don't necessarily contradict each other.

That being said, creationism is religion, and should not be taught in public schools. If this gomer wants to teach it in Sunday school, more power to him. Just keep him out of the publicly-funded classroom.

22 victor_yugo  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:36:22pm

re: #10 jwb7605

If there is a difference between religion and science, one or both is wrong.

Not really. Even with differences, both can be right within their own domains.

23 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:37:26pm

re: #17 jcm

I believe in the Creator.
I also believe in His Creation.
I believe we were given the capacity to discover and understand His creation.

I also believe in the Bible.
That we have the capacity to understand it.

Where there is conflict it is not what creation tells us, or what the Bible tells us.
It is our understanding that is flawed.

And we have zero disagreement on that issue.

24 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:39:21pm

re: #20 Desert Dog

OT

Robert Fisk - Why Does the US Think It Can Win In Afghanistan?

Well, that's coming straight from the horse's mouth (or is it jackass?). I guess we should just surrender now and get it over with. The mighty Taliban is too much for the US Armed Forces. I really hope Obama does not win now, because part of what he is saying is true, the Taliban has had a bit of a resurgence. If they bloody our noses, even ever so slightly, I am sure President Obama will turn tail and run, handing that entire region over to the guys with the black turbans and the medieval mindset.

Wasn't Fisk the guy that got himself hauled off and beat up by a bunch of Afghans at the beginning of the Afghan war?

25 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:40:34pm

re: #18 nightintheruts

Agreed. But where would we find the intelligent middle ground to discuss it with?

Everyone just wants to "argue and get in their face" about everything now.

First I'm Evangelical Christian. Frankly most of the issues arise on the creation side of the argument.

There is a view among certain creationists that there is a conflict between the two. That too believe in science is incompatible with faith. They think that the competing view points should be taught as science.

Creationism as faith is not incompatible with the understanding and knowledge of science. The key is recognizing the separate territories, and then the common ground can be discussed with respect.

26 victor_yugo  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:40:58pm

re: #24 Syrah

Wasn't Fisk the guy that got himself hauled off and beat up by a bunch of Afghans at the beginning of the Afghan war?

He's also the namesake of the award Charles hands out every year for "most egregious moonbat".

27 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:41:04pm

re: #16 reine.de.tout

Nor are you teaching what students need to learn.

Yeah, that got to me, too.

28 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:41:20pm

re: #23 jwb7605

And we have zero disagreement on that issue.

Rats, and I just swiped Mandy's clue bat too!
/ ;-P

29 NC State of Mind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:41:33pm

re: #16 reine.de.tout

Nor are you teaching what students need to learn.

Well, I can attest that the biology teaches, at least in NC, are going to teach what they want. My regular honors teacher was a hardcore creationist, so she taught us that, as well breifly going over evolution. I would imagine that happens quite often around the country. Our AP teacher taught evolution, but of course, only about 5% of the student population took the AP class, so...

As long as the woman I mentioned earlier still leads the department in the Brunswick system, there's no need to fear of creationism 'breaking in' there.

30 Alouette  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:42:14pm

re: #24 Syrah

Wasn't Fisk the guy that got himself hauled off and beat up by a bunch of Afghans at the beginning of the Afghan war?

He was beat up by Pakistani Muslims and said he deserved it.

31 GATORBAIT  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:42:38pm

I am a person who believes in Intelligent Design for philosophical reasons. I am also a fairly well trained scientist, reasonably well versed in evolutionary theory. Philosophy is not a suitable subject of instruction in elementary or secondary school. Evolutionary theory is.

32 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:42:45pm

re: #17 jcm

I believe in the Creator.
I also believe in His Creation.
I believe we were given the capacity to discover and understand His creation.

I also believe in the Bible.
That we have the capacity to understand it.

Where there is conflict it is not what creation tells us, or what the Bible tells us.
It is our understanding that is flawed.

Yes, indeed.

I believe we were given the capacity to discover and understand His creation.

And I believe that for humans to refuse or fail to use the capacity that God has given us, is a sin against Him. It is, imo, the ultimate disrespect to our Creator to disregard and ignore the gifts He has given us.

33 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:43:43pm

re: #28 jcm

Rats, and I just swiped Mandy's clue bat too!
/ ;-P

I thought I was threads enough away to escape.
She's what, hired "investigators"?

34 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:44:24pm

re: #27 MandyManners

Yeah, that got to me, too.

It sounded as if he thought students should be "taught the test". I think that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Teach students well, and they will be OK on the test.

Perhaps he used that terminology as a means of trying to convince those wanting creationism/ID taught.

35 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:44:42pm

re: #25 jcm

Creationism as faith is not incompatible with the understanding and knowledge of science. The key is recognizing the separate territories, and then the common ground can be discussed with respect.


Exactly, JCM! Understanding and knowledge... of both faith and science...

(The Glory of God) has declared that religion must be in accord with science and reason. If it does not correspond with scientific principles and the processes of reason, it is superstition. For God has endowed us with faculties by which we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and science, faith is impossible; and when faith and confidence in the divine religion are not manifest in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
36 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:45:34pm

re: #30 Alouette

He was beat up by Pakistani Muslims and said he deserved it.

Pakistanis. Ok.

The "deserved it" part I was pretty certain of.

37 victor_yugo  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:46:10pm

re: #25 jcm

Creationism as faith is not incompatible with the understanding and knowledge of science.

Therein lies the problem. Creationism is not "faith," nor is Intelligent Design.

"Creationism" and "Intelligent Design," like "Pro-choice," are terms chosen specifically to hide the political agendas behind them.

38 Intrepid  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:46:17pm

OT: Biden puts his foot in his mouth, yet again!

Hands off my guns, Obama!

Ol Plugs, he just keeps pluggin' along.

39 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:46:28pm

What time is it? It's Mecca time!

/and you thought Christians were nuts

40 Alouette  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:46:56pm

re: #36 Syrah

Pakistanis. Ok.

The "deserved it" part I was pretty certain of.

Any time Fisk is beat up he deserves it.

41 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:48:32pm

re: #10 jwb7605

If there is a difference between religion and science, one or both is wrong.

Hard to argue with.
I'm not wanting "the discussion" again, but this is why I joined.

You know, your comments here are usually interesting and insightful, but you really need to stop pushing the Bahai thing. There's a reason why proselytizing is discouraged here.

42 coquimbojoe  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:49:57pm

re: #25 jcm

First I'm Evangelical Christian. Frankly most of the issues arise on the creation side of the argument.

There is a view among certain creationists that there is a conflict between the two. That too believe in science is incompatible with faith. They think that the competing view points should be taught as science.

Creationism as faith is not incompatible with the understanding and knowledge of science. The key is recognizing the separate territories, and then the common ground can be discussed with respect.

Amen, brother.

43 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:50:38pm

re: #4 jcm

Faith is faith.
Science is science.

Science does a far better job of staying in science than faith does.

It's time people of faith recognize the boundaries of faith, and respect the boundary of science.

*cough cough global warming cough cough*

44 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:51:11pm

re: #37 victor_yugo

Therein lies the problem. Creationism is not "faith," nor is Intelligent Design.

"Creationism" and "Intelligent Design," like "Pro-choice," are terms chosen specifically to hide the political agendas behind them.

Aye, and therein lies the rub.

I believe in God and his designed creation, but not the political agenda. I also see what is know in science.

So which terms do I use without being tied to the political agenda?

45 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:53:50pm

re: #38 Intrepid

OT: Biden puts his foot in his mouth, yet again!

Hands off my guns, Obama!

Ol Plugs, he just keeps pluggin' along.

Don't worry Obama's not going to take them....“

“If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. “This can’t be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. I’m not going to take away your guns.’’

Well until he has the votes that is....

46 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:54:08pm

re: #41 Lynn B.

You know, your comments here are usually interesting and insightful, but you really need to stop pushing the Bahai thing. There's a reason why proselytizing is discouraged here.

I'm not trying to proselytize.
I just provided a link that should explain where I'm coming from.
If you are comfortable where you are, please stay there.
If Charles disagrees, (and is listening), I'm open to an off line e-mail.

I'm serious, and I'm sorry you feel that way.

47 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:54:57pm

re: #43 JamesTKirk

*cough cough global warming cough cough*

The science is fine..... and I said a it did a better job, not perfect.
It's the politicians hijacking the issue.

48 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:55:34pm

All that I have to say about all of this is that since those pointy headed science types have been unable to refute, in any way that I am willing to acknowledge, my "It's turtles, all the way down!" cosmology, I demand that it be taught in the class rooms along side and equal to that Darwin fellow's scribblings.

49 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:55:46pm

re: #42 coquimbojoe

Hi, Joe!
How you doing this fine (rainy in Seattle) evening?

50 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:56:03pm

re: #25 jcm

re: #32 reine.de.tout

I typically don't get involved in these threads, but you two hit the nail on the head for me.

51 Desert Dog  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:57:58pm

I usually avoid these links as tempers seem to flair on this touchy subject. I am one of those guys raised Catholic, but fell out of the church in my 20's and slowly moved towards being non religious the more I read and understood the origins, dogma and practice of the main religions in the world. Each religion insists it is the right one, and they all have a different view on how this world and universe came into existence. Which version is true? And, how can you show me, a modern day Doubting Thomas, that your version is actually the truth. With all of it's flaws, the theory of evolution at least put some sort of explanation that can and has been verified to be accurate many times over. It does not cover everything, yet. But, The Bible, the Torah, the Koran, the teachings of Buddha, the various Sruti of Hinduism cannot explain why a chimpanzee's DNA is virtually identical to ours. None of the major religions mention all of the known sub-species of hominids. We are finding more and more examples of creatures that are not quite human, but more advanced than a modern ape. Where did these guys come from?

I respect religions for many things, but telling me god or Shiva or Zeus or Baal created the earth and put your priest in charge of things is not one of them, sorry.......

52 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:58:34pm

re: #45 jcm

Well until he has the votes that is....

This subject came up a few days ago.
It's not the guns (Supreme Court has tabled that issue for a while), it's the ammo (mandatory surcharges by Congress, etc) that I'd watch for.

53 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:58:49pm

re: #50 Gearhead

Merci!
*blush*

54 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 7:58:56pm

I'm a confirmed Lutheran (intensive classes all the way though high school, Sunday School as a child) and never once did the topic that the Earth was 6000 years old or man walked with dinosaurs ever come up.

/where do they get these people?

55 coquimbojoe  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:01:16pm

re: #49 jcm

Hi, Joe!
How you doing this fine (rainy in Seattle) evening?

I'm good. Gout acting up so I am a bit hobbled. Still gonna go do my moonlighting though. Weather here in Vegas is great. Mid 90's 60s at night. perfect.

Have a good Sunday!

56 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:01:21pm
“The law says we can’t have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists.”

How very sad that this man, and so many like him, have confused the issue so much in their minds that they fail to see the wisdom of Lao Stinky.

57 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:01:42pm

re: #52 jwb7605

This subject came up a few days ago.
It's not the guns (Supreme Court has tabled that issue for a while), it's the ammo (mandatory surcharges by Congress, etc) that I'd watch for.

Last year? The or the year before OSHA regulators tried on the regulatory side, to change ammo from Class 3 to Class 1 explosives. It would have made the sale and residential storage of ammo almost impossible. Fortunately it got into the blogosphere and OSHA got flooded with comments.

58 coquimbojoe  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:03:32pm

re: #57 jcm

Last year? The or the year before OSHA regulators tried on the regulatory side, to change ammo from Class 3 to Class 1 explosives. It would have made the sale and residential storage of ammo almost impossible. Fortunately it got into the blogosphere and OSHA got flooded with comments.

Did they really? @$$holes.

59 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:03:50pm

re: #38 Intrepid

OT: Biden puts his foot in his mouth, yet again!

Hands off my guns, Obama!

Ol Plugs, he just keeps pluggin' along.

I think this is a first in American politics; a candidate for Vice President threatening the candidate for President... on his own ticket.

Should the US Secret Service investigate Biden now?

Quel bizarre.

60 WitchDoctor  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:04:08pm

zzz

61 Outrider  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:05:20pm

re: #39 Killian Bundy

What time is it? It's Mecca time!

/and you thought Christians were nuts

Did any of what that dude say make any kind of sense? A missing eight minutes confuses pilots? Maybe Arab pilots? Masses of people in Antarctica? Blood flows better in Mecca. More freely perhaps due to beheadings.

Thanks for posting. Their scientists are always good for a laugh.

62 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:05:40pm

I'd like to know what the state of North Carolina is going to do to stop this if this is against state guidelines because the second link doesn't say. Personally, I would threaten revoking state funding (if NC works that way) and I would file an injunction in court.

63 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:06:19pm

re: #45 jcm

It occurred to me today that with all of the attention Sarah Palin gets, the only time you hear about Biden is when he says something stupid.

Granted that does add up to a lot of coverage these days...

64 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:06:28pm

re: #54 Killian Bundy

I'm a confirmed Lutheran (intensive classes all the way though high school, Sunday School as a child) and never once did the topic that the Earth was 6000 years old or man walked with dinosaurs ever come up.

/where do they get these people?

Back in the 'fifties', I was taught that dinosaurs (melted, smashed ones) were responsible for all the oil, and that we'd run out before 1990 at 'current consumption levels' (again, back in the fifties).

I was never taught that the earth was 6000 years old, but I do remember a couple of teachers that seemed to think that, and "reluctantly" presented the theory of evolution.

I can think of a few 'private colleges' that might push the 6000 year-old stuff.
Get a college degree, get published, and you, too, can be as smart as Al Gore.

We seem to have similar backgrounds (Missouri Synod Lutheran?)

65 coquimbojoe  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:06:33pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

How very sad that this man, and so many like him, have confused the issue so much in their minds that they fail to see the wisdom of Lao Stinky.

Agreed. It would be wise for those religious types to keep their brand of faith out of school, lest they want me imposing my brand too. It is my firm belief that all truth (even those truths uncovered by science) comes from God. I have to accept things proven to be true by science. Interestingly, it doesn't negate my belief in the divine...

66 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:07:12pm

re: #61 Outrider

Thanks for posting. Their scientists are always good for a laugh.

You might also like . . .

/Risks of Female Masturbation According to Islamic Teachings

67 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:07:21pm

re: #58 coquimbojoe

Did they really? @$$holes.

Imagine Walmart having to evacuate every time there was a thunderstorm? Would Walmart quit selling ammo, or evacuate? It wouldn't even go through the legislative process, just some new rules that come out every few months.

68 WF Bach  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:07:24pm

re: #54 Killian Bundy

I'm a confirmed Lutheran (intensive classes all the way though high school, Sunday School as a child) and never once did the topic that the Earth was 6000 years old or man walked with dinosaurs ever come up.

/where do they get these people?

Probably people that grew up watching the Flintstones.

69 solomonpanting  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:07:36pm

“The law says we can’t have Bibles in schools, but we can have evolution, of the atheists scientists.”

70 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:08:01pm

re: #65 coquimbojoe

It would be wise for those religious types to keep their brand of faith out of school, lest they want me imposing my brand too.

You guys have all those fancy brand-name faiths.

Mine is generic.

71 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:08:35pm

re: #57 jcm

Last year? The or the year before OSHA regulators tried on the regulatory side, to change ammo from Class 3 to Class 1 explosives. It would have made the sale and residential storage of ammo almost impossible. Fortunately it got into the blogosphere and OSHA got flooded with comments.

That seems to bring back memories.
There was another one, though, that would have made a .22 bullet cost a buck a copy after taxes.

72 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:09:21pm

re: #63 Gearhead

It occurred to me today that with all of the attention Sarah Palin gets, the only time you hear about Biden is when he says something stupid.

Granted that does add up to a lot of coverage these days...

Hey that works as a campaign strategy for me!

Rumor is, Plugs is out away.

73 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:09:27pm

re: #62 Sharmuta

I'd like to know what the state of North Carolina is going to do to stop this if this is against state guidelines because the second link doesn't say. Personally, I would threaten revoking state funding (if NC works that way) and I would file an injunction in court.

Also, deny entry into state universities to the graduates of those schools who teach creationism / ID as science, rather than evolution.

Those kids will be lost if they take any science classes at college, if they don't have the fundamentals.

74 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:10:10pm

re: #71 jwb7605

That seems to bring back memories.
There was another one, though, that would have made a .22 bullet cost a buck a copy after taxes.

Eternal vigilance. Yeah, SCOTUS took guns off the table, now we have to watch our ammo.

75 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:10:40pm

re: #64 jwb7605

We seem to have similar backgrounds (Missouri Synod Lutheran?)

Welcome to St. Stephens!

/boy, it's been a while

76 RubyTuesday  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:10:42pm

re: #60 WitchDoctor
Word.
I'll be back when we've moved to the overnight thread.

77 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:11:07pm

re: #46 jwb7605

I'm not trying to proselytize.
I just provided a link that should explain where I'm coming from.
If you are comfortable where you are, please stay there.
If Charles disagrees, (and is listening), I'm open to an off line e-mail.

I'm serious, and I'm sorry you feel that way.

Sorry. I really do have a lot of respect for the views you've posted here. It's just that sometimes it seems to me you come off a little pushy on the Bahai stuff. And I certainly didn't meant to imply that you'd come close to stepping over a line that Charles has set. That's not for me to say. It does feel to me that you're trying to suggest reasons why people here should follow your faith rather than their own. If I misconstrued, again, I apologize.

78 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:11:38pm

re: #73 reine.de.tout

Also, deny entry into state universities to the graduates of those schools who teach creationism / ID as science, rather than evolution.

Those kids will be lost if they take any science classes at college, if they don't have the fundamentals.

That's the biggest problem I see for private / home schooling. That they don't teach science, and the kids are without the language of the modern world.

79 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:11:44pm

“I wasn’t here 2 million years ago,” Fanti said. “If evolution is so slow, why don’t we see anything evolving now?”

The fact that people were impressed by this "argument" is very depressing.

80 solomonpanting  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:12:27pm

re: #76 RubyTuesday

Word.
I'll be back when we've moved to the overnight thread.

"Good-bye
Ruby Tuesday...."

;P

81 Outrider  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:12:31pm

re: #66 Killian Bundy

You might also like . . .

/Risks of Female Masturbation According to Islamic Teachings

Wow.

82 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:12:59pm
83 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:13:32pm

re: #73 reine.de.tout

Also, deny entry into state universities to the graduates of those schools who teach creationism / ID as science, rather than evolution.

Those kids will be lost if they take any science classes at college, if they don't have the fundamentals.

Another good idea.

It just makes me angry that our public schools are already in trouble- with standards and money, that some people think it's a good idea to weaken the standards and open up the schools to expensive lawsuits. These grown-ups run around thinking their doing the Lord's work when all they're doing is messing up these kids' futures, and by extension messing with America's future too. It's got to stop.

84 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:14:32pm
85 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:14:33pm

re: #72 jcm

Hey that works as a campaign strategy for me!

Rumor is, Plugs is out away.

I'd love it, but I ain't buyin' it. Pulling an Eagleton would almost certainly lose him the race. All the comments the Dems made about Palin being a 'cynical' choice would get thrown right back at them.

Besides, having Hillary as one's V.P. automatically shortens life expectancy.

86 Desert Dog  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:14:40pm

re: #66 Killian Bundy

You might also like . . .

/Risks of Female Masturbation According to Islamic Teachings

I tried looking up the "Benefits of Female Masturbation", but all I got was some website that wanted $49.99 a month for all the hot babes I care to look at......maybe the Iman should watch some of that and get back to us about that risk thing.

87 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:15:06pm
88 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:15:43pm

re: #85 Gearhead

I'd love it, but I ain't buyin' it. Pulling an Eagleton would almost certainly lose him the race. All the comments the Dems made about Palin being a 'cynical' choice would get thrown right back at them.

Besides, having Hillary as one's V.P. automatically shortens life expectancy.

Not buying it either, but hey it's a good rumor to spread among lefties.

89 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:16:14pm

They shouldn't teach anything papa don't git.

90 solomonpanting  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:16:42pm

re: #87 ploome hineni

are we watching America unravel or is it just me?


I don't know. Why don't you give a good strong yank on this thread?

91 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:16:44pm
92 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:16:47pm
“I wasn’t here 2 million years ago,” Fanti said. “If evolution is so slow, why don’t we see anything evolving now?”

1. He wasn't here 6,000 or 10,000 years ago either.
2. What tangible evidence does he have that the Biblical creation story is true?
3. He answered his own question as to why we "don't see anything evolving now." Because it's so slow, moron.
4. Of course, we actually do see evolution in action all the time, but I suspect what he means by "why don't we see anything evolving now" is that he doesn't see cats evolving into whales.

93 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:16:49pm

re: #87 ploome hineni

Just you.

94 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:17:32pm

re: #90 solomonpanting

There is plenty of strong Yanks on this thread.

95 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:17:59pm

ACK

is = are

/ducking before OR catches that...

96 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:18:16pm
97 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:18:28pm

re: #66 Killian Bundy

You might also like . . .

/Risks of Female Masturbation According to Islamic Teachings

He says:

Obviously, killing her is forbidden and a grave sin. Even if she did fornicate, she does not deserve to be killed. At most, she should be flogged . . ."

Good grief! What kind of twisted mind thinks that way?

Later he says:

A Muslim girl must commit herself to what God has decreed. She must take care of herself, fast, pray, be God-fearing, keep herself busy. She can read a useful book, prepare her homework, join a charity. . .

Uh, yeah, that's gonna do it . . .

98 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:18:43pm

re: #91 ploome hineni

what does this mean?

Rumors abound that O'bama's going to dump Biden in favor of someone more, .... charming!

99 Outrider  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:19:09pm

re: #78 jcm

That's the biggest problem I see for private / home schooling. That they don't teach science, and the kids are without the language of the modern world.

Not all home schooling. Our granddaughter is home schooled and is taught solid science. But, she wasn't taken out of public education because of religious reasons, more along the line of dissatisfaction with the rather haphazard job conducted in many modern education systems (instead of being just schools).

100 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:19:30pm

re: #93 WriterMom

Just you.

Nah, it isn't just her. I still have a lot of hope that we can stem the tide, but the fact is that the momentum is currently against us. All the more reason to step up.

101 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:19:50pm

re: #88 jcm

Not buying it either, but hey it's a good rumor to spread among lefties.

True. It's fun to get the office Democrat spun up - although she's usually the one who starts something.

102 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:19:52pm

re: #97 reine.de.tout

She can read a useful book,

The Tollybon don't even think girls should know how to read.

103 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:20:03pm
104 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:20:25pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

Another good idea.

It just makes me angry that our public schools are already in trouble- with standards and money, that some people think it's a good idea to weaken the standards and open up the schools to expensive lawsuits. These grown-ups run around thinking their doing the Lord's work when all they're doing is messing up these kids' futures, and by extension messing with America's future too. It's got to stop.

Amen, amen, amen, amen!

105 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:20:31pm

re: #100 Lynn B.

Ahh...but what is HOPE without CHANGE?

/just kidding

YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS

106 lostlakehiker  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:20:39pm

re: #43 JamesTKirk

re: #4 jcm

Faith is faith.
Science is science.

Science does a far better job of staying in science than faith does.

It's time people of faith recognize the boundaries of faith, and respect the boundary of science.


*cough cough global warming cough cough*


Here's the problem. There is a science of global warming, and there's a `spiritual' belief that the planet is in such dire peril that anything goes when it comes to arguing the case for global warming.

The Algore Church of Warmingology has served the scientific case on global warming about as well as Piltdown Man served the case for evolution. There is no place in science for strategic lying. It doesn't even work.

The Bjorn Lomborg perspective on global warming is that it's real, and it might be a problem, but how about some perspective? Calculate the cost. Work out possible responses, including the response of using fossil fuels anyhow, even if it'll cost us some coastal real estate and a higher incidence of tropical diseases. Maybe we can cope with the tropical diseases with vaccines, insect control measures, and so on?

My own guess is that our best strategy is to make a big push into wind, solar, and nuclear power, and to use fossil fuels to tide us over. Even with that big push, the development of all that new infrastructure will take time, and in the interim, we just have to go ahead and use the fossil fuels.

If global warming turned out to be a bugaboo, we'd still have our shiny new energy independence. How bad would that be?

107 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:21:11pm

re: #99 Outrider

Not all home schooling. Our granddaughter is home schooled and is taught solid science. But, she wasn't taken out of public education because of religious reasons, more along the line of dissatisfaction with the rather haphazard job conducted in many modern education systems (instead of being just schools).

Correct not all, didn't mean to imply that. Just the ones that decide not to teach science as being incompatible with their faith.

Those kids are getting short shrift. Every home schooler I know is top notch of all subjects.

108 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:21:11pm

Alright this is my opportunity to get banned. Charles this argument is an unfair setup and I can prove it. To believe in evolution means that you believe that we are closely related to lower life forms that climbed out of the primordial ooze. For crying out loud man:
1. We are lizards
2. We are interested in politics and politicians.
A clear example of insider knowledge and special pleading, case dismissed.

109 NC State of Mind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:21:17pm

Big Bang in Britain Over Creationism

One of the world´s leading biologists, who is also an ordained Anglican priest, has sparked uproar in both religious and scientific circles by campaigning to teach creationism, along with evolution and the "Big Bang" theory in science classrooms.

My central argument," the professor said simply in what turned out to be a stunner of an address at the British Association Festival of Science at England´s University of Liverpool, "is that creationism is best seen by a science teacher not as a misconception but as a world view."

Anyway, the professor insisted in his speech earlier this month that his days as a biology tutor had taught him that "simply banging on about evolution and natural selection didn´t lead some pupils to change their minds at all.

110 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:21:28pm

Obama is not going to dump Joe Biden. There is no way he is that crazy to pull a stunt like that now.

111 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:21:51pm

re: #103 ploome hineni

dumping BIden, i.e. a designated VP elect, would be catastrophic

choosing that windbag was stupid enough

Ploome, where'd you go earlier? Hot date?

112 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:21:54pm
113 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:22:07pm

re: #98 jcm

Rumors abound that O'bama's going to dump Biden in favor of someone more, .... charming!

Obama/Byrd '08!

114 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:22:09pm

re: #78 jcm

That's the biggest problem I see for private / home schooling. That they don't teach science, and the kids are without the language of the modern world.

That's a pretty sweeping generalization about homeschooled children.

115 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:22:19pm

re: #103 ploome hineni

dumping BIden, i.e. a designated VP elect, would be catastrophic

choosing that windbag was stupid enough

We must encourage him them!

BWAHAHAHA!

116 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:22:58pm

re: #77 Lynn B.

Sorry. I really do have a lot of respect for the views you've posted here. It's just that sometimes it seems to me you come off a little pushy on the Bahai stuff. And I certainly didn't meant to imply that you'd come close to stepping over a line that Charles has set. That's not for me to say. It does feel to me that you're trying to suggest reasons why people here should follow your faith rather than their own. If I misconstrued, again, I apologize.

The other reason I am what I am is because of what my dad told me after his second heart attack, which he didn't figure he'd live through. After the medics had 'brought him back' to life, he was seriously pissed off.

He looked me straight in the eye, and there was genuine fear in him. Not for himself, but for me. He believed he had just seen the other side. Again.

He said [jwb7605], "It doesn't matter what religion you pick. You just have to believe in God. You have to believe in God."

I had quit the Lutheran Church, because the new pastor had excommunicated him. He had a 'night job', and couldn't make it to church often enough to suit the new pastor. I found that a poor reason to be excommunicated. Had a brief discussion with the pastor about it, and never returned.

So I found a religion that suits me, and I sincerely believe what my dad told me is true.
I sincerely believe that if your religion suits you, then that is what you should be doing.

117 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:23:36pm
118 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:23:46pm

re: #105 WriterMom

Ahh...but what is HOPE without CHANGE?

/just kidding

YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS

Thanks, WM. I intend to. By hook or by crook.

/b'ezrat HaShem.

119 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:23:48pm

re: #87 ploome hineni

are we watching America unravel or is it just me?

It's just you, comrade.
//

120 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:23:59pm
121 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:24:26pm

re: #117 ploome hineni

dayyyyyyyyy Oh

daaaAAAAAAaaaay Oh

daylite com an I wan go hom

come mister Tollybon tolly me banana

daylite com an I wan go hom boom

:D................I sing good

/fixed

122 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:24:35pm
123 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:24:55pm

re: #118 Lynn B.

Hashem will help. But I think sometimes Hashem is astounded and disappointed at how stupid some people are.

124 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:25:11pm

re: #117 ploome hineni

dayyyyyyyyy Oh

daaaAAAAAAaaaay Oh

daylite com an I wan go hom

come mister Tollybon tolly me banana

daylite com an I wan go hom

:D................I sing good

Um, did somebody lie to you about tell you that, or are you just assuming?

125 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:25:54pm

re: #114 Neo Con since 9-11

That's a pretty sweeping generalization about homeschooled children.

Could of chosen verbiage better... I was talking about the one that choose not to teach science.

126 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:25:57pm

re: #117 ploome hineni

come mister Tollybon tolly me banana

Funny but that song is from moonbat extraordinaire Hairy Belafonte. hmm. That doesn't look right. I think I spelled Belafonte wrong.

127 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:26:45pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

Ploome, where'd you go earlier? Hot date?

i had a hot date.
i watched bear grylls (man vs wild) strip off to his unter hosen (skivies) and jump in a lake in siberia.
he didn't really need to do that to show how cold it was, but just to show us how good he looked w/ relatively little clothing.
he did look pretty good.
he ate a mosquito and a squirrel.

128 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:27:03pm

re: #126 Mich-again

Come Mr. Taliban, ooh mahn I'm a real fan

/Belafonte mode

129 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:27:20pm

re: #123 WriterMom

Hashem will help. But I think sometimes Hashem is astounded and disappointed at how stupid some people are.

Isn't the school answer that G-d created man because that was the only way he could experience feelings such as surprise and wonder and embarrassment?

130 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:27:30pm
131 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:27:53pm
The topic came up after county resident Joel Fanti told the board he thought it was unfair for evolution to be taught as fact, saying it should be taught as a theory because there’s no tangible proof it’s true.

Someone needs to have Ken Miller speak to these people. But then again- someone like this guy is probably not going to accept evolution unless he can see it happen, thus he's never be satisfied with any amount of evidence, but his skepticism should not be allowed to damage the education of children in this country.

132 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:28:44pm

re: #127 nyc redneck

HEY SISTAH!

133 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:28:49pm

re: #127 nyc redneck

i had a hot date.
i watched bear grylls (man vs wild) strip off to his unter hosen (skivies) and jump in a lake in siberia.
he didn't really need to do that to show how cold it was, but just to show us how good he looked w/ relatively little clothing.
he did look pretty good.
he ate a mosquito and a squirrel.


No eating moose and squirrel.

134 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:29:15pm

re: #127 nyc redneck

i had a hot date.
i watched bear grylls (man vs wild) strip off to his unter hosen (skivies) and jump in a lake in siberia.
he didn't really need to do that to show how cold it was, but just to show us how good he looked w/ relatively little clothing.
he did look pretty good.
he ate a mosquito and a squirrel.

And I missed it! Dang.
Has anyone but me ever noticed that boys and men love to take off as much clothes as possible and do gross things?

135 Outrider  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:29:27pm

re: #84 Killian Bundy

/Iraqi TV Debate: Is the Earth Flat?

lol The eye thingee again. ;-)>

136 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:29:41pm

i've seen him eat grass hoppers, grubs, bird eggs (shell and all), rattle snakes, worms, moths,

137 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:29:44pm
138 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:30:10pm

Hey, it's almost October.

/haven't heard a peep out of Louisiana, what's up with that?

139 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:30:21pm

re: #136 nyc redneck

i've seen him eat grass hoppers, grubs, bird eggs (shell and all), rattle snakes, worms, moths,

ICK!

140 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:30:36pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

Someone needs to have Ken Miller speak to these people. But then again- someone like this guy is probably not going to accept evolution unless he can see it happen, thus he's never be satisfied with any amount of evidence, but his skepticism should not be allowed to damage the education of children in this country.

He just needs to understand the definition of "theory."

Not going to hold my breath on that one.

141 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:30:49pm

re: #138 Killian Bundy

Hey, it's almost October.

/haven't heard a peep out of Louisiana, what's up with that?

Whatcha looking for out of Louisiana?

142 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:31:10pm

re: #132 WriterMom

HEY SISTAH!

hey there {WriterMom}
how'd your meeting go? did you set them straight?

143 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:32:05pm

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

144 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:32:09pm

re: #84 Killian Bundy

/Iraqi TV Debate: Is the Earth Flat?

Of course it's flat, every where I take my bubble level it's level, if I was on the side it wouldn't be would it? See the earth is flat!

///////////

145 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:32:16pm
146 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:32:41pm

re: #127 nyc redneck

date a mosquito and a squirrel.

He should come to Alabama. He could have the same thing - with table service.

147 Moe Katz  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:32:46pm

re: #90 solomonpanting

I don't know. Why don't you give a good strong yank on this thread?

Lots of good strong Yanks on this thread.

148 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:32:58pm

re: #139 reine.de.tout

ICK!

i don't know why he ate the mosquito.
what is the food value of a mosquito?
how many calories? 10?

149 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:02pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

As what subject?

150 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:09pm

re: #138 Killian Bundy

Hey, it's almost October.

/haven't heard a peep out of Louisiana, what's up with that?

I suspect that new Governor Jindal had a meeting of minds with Mayor Nagin using words of one syllable or fewer. It is a process but he does seem to have less oxygen these days. That from one side and also he is yesterday's new and the MSM have moved on.

151 Outrider  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:20pm

re: #125 jcm

Could of chosen verbiage better... I was talking about the one that choose not to teach science.

I knew what you had meant-I just clarified a little. ;-)>

152 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:23pm

re: #145 ploome hineni

yes

/very gross

(and I think that's why we love 'em so, but shhhh).

153 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:25pm

Hey. What's he new heart button thingy? I'm afraid to click it. It might be some Internet donation to Obama.

154 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:25pm

re: #142 nyc redneck

Well, it was not disciplinary. LOL. It was COACHING.

But I did manage to put the Supreme Tormentor Biotch into "the zone" a few times and she started stuttering.

Amazing how bullies are really good at bullying when there are no witnesses. It's different when they have to put on a show for others.

155 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:53pm
156 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:33:58pm

Last day of summer! Hope everyone's gathering up nuts and such to stash for winter.

157 WriterMom  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:34:36pm

re: #153 faraway

If you think there is an Obama donation button here, you have something whack in yer bong.

158 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:34:39pm

re: #20 Desert Dog

OT

Robert Fisk - Why Does the US Think It Can Win In Afghanistan?

Well, that's coming straight from the horse's mouth (or is it jackass?). I guess we should just surrender now and get it over with. The mighty Taliban is too much for the US Armed Forces. I really hope Obama does not win now, because part of what he is saying is true, the Taliban has had a bit of a resurgence. If they bloody our noses, even ever so slightly, I am sure President Obama will turn tail and run, handing that entire region over to the guys with the black turbans and the medieval mindset.

I'm sure Fiskie boy asked the same question about Iraq.

And now we have Petraeus overseeing the Afghan theater as well.

We haven't even BEGUN to really lay the smack down on the assholes.

159 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:34:39pm
160 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:34:42pm

re: #97 reine.de.tout

hmmmmm.....

masterbate or homework?

decisions, decisions, decisions.

Thank link is unreal.

161 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:34:51pm

re: #148 nyc redneck

i don't know why he ate the mosquito.
what is the food value of a mosquito?
how many calories? 10?

I think many bugs are high in protein.

Earthworms are high in protein, I've been told.

Mosquito - I would think the only reason to eat it would be to get rid of it.
yech.

162 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:04pm

nyc redneck
Have you been gone?

163 Outrider  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:19pm

re: #134 reine.de.tout

And I missed it! Dang.
Has anyone but me ever noticed that boys and men love to take off as much clothes as possible and do gross things?

Clothes are an inconvenience. And it depends on what is meant by gross things.

164 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:33pm

re: #46 jwb7605

Strong defense of position, seeking clarification and aggressive argument to point is often perceived here as 'proselytizing'... you MUST find a more subtle, less direct way to share, JWB...

165 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:44pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

Which creationism? The Christian variety or Muslim variety?

166 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:48pm

re: #156 cliffster

Last day of summer! Hope everyone's gathering up nuts and such to stash for winter.


Looks around room
Nods

Done

167 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:54pm

re: #135 Outrider

lol The eye thingee again. ;-)>

I have to agree with the guy in the glasses.
Obviously, the earth is flat, and has been for all six thousand years.
////

168 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:35:57pm

re: #116 jwb7605

The other reason I am what I am is because of what my dad told me after his second heart attack, which he didn't figure he'd live through. After the medics had 'brought him back' to life, he was seriously pissed off.

He looked me straight in the eye, and there was genuine fear in him. Not for himself, but for me. He believed he had just seen the other side. Again.

He said [jwb7605], "It doesn't matter what religion you pick. You just have to believe in God. You have to believe in God."

I had quit the Lutheran Church, because the new pastor had excommunicated him. He had a 'night job', and couldn't make it to church often enough to suit the new pastor. I found that a poor reason to be excommunicated. Had a brief discussion with the pastor about it, and never returned.

So I found a religion that suits me, and I sincerely believe what my dad told me is true.
I sincerely believe that if your religion suits you, then that is what you should be doing.

I totally get that, jwb, and although I'm happy where I am, I know some Bahais and they've been very generous and unpressured in sharing the roots of their faith with me. It isn't for me but I can honestly say that I appreciate the richness it's brought to their lives. I've been a few times to the World Centre in Haifa (though many years ago, before the renovations) and I can attest that it's a very spiritual place (IMO).

Your dad sounds like a very wise man and (IMO) his new pastor was undeserving of the title, from what you've related.

169 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:36:50pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

Will you be happy when CAIR jumps in to demand that the Koran's version be taught?

170 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:36:53pm

re: #154 WriterMom

Well, it was not disciplinary. LOL. It was COACHING.

But I did manage to put the Supreme Tormentor Biotch into "the zone" a few times and she started stuttering.

Amazing how bullies are really good at bullying when there are no witnesses. It's different when they have to put on a show for others.

sounds like the hrc that ezra levant went up against. he brought a video camera.
(i don't like bullies, they are unstable people)

171 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:37:09pm

re: #165 cliffster

Which creationism? The Christian variety or Muslim variety?

Read a few lines of Genesis.

172 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:37:14pm
173 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:17pm
174 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:27pm

re: #108 lifeofthemind

LOTM, there is always room for disagreement, and quite a few people who post on other subjects have elected to just watch from the sidelines.

There is no rule to post on every thread.

Tempers do tend to flare from every perspective here, so why get banned?

175 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:34pm

re: #155 ploome hineni

before or after it becomes ENGORGED with the blood it has scked out of its last victim?

it was wintering over in a siberian cave.
probably had a 5 calorie food value.
he was just showing how tuff he was.
i wouldn't have eaten the mosquito and smiled at the camera.

176 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:35pm

re: #169 MandyManners

Will you be happy when CAIR jumps in to demand that the Koran's version be taught?

Probably not as concerned as teaching that great grandpa was a monkey.

177 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:46pm

re: #153 faraway

Between this one and No. 143, I gotta' ask a personal question: WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?

178 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:48pm

re: #110 Mich-again

Obama is not going to dump Joe Biden. There is no way he is that crazy to pull a stunt like that now.

No- but they might as well kiss Ohio goodbye:

"I was out in Ohio," he said, clutching a football. "I told the folks in Ohio that we'd kick Ohio State's ass!"

You go, Joe!

179 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:38:58pm

I love these threads.

180 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:04pm

re: #163 Outrider

Clothes are an inconvenience. And it depends on what is meant by gross things.

I was just trying to stir up something.

My husband likes to take perfectly good yard implements, like a lawnmower, tear it up so that he can fix it with duct tape, and in the process make sure that he has destroyed any safety feature the thing might have had to begin with.

He's like his dad, who ended up with a nail gun, nailing his hand to the wall, and the pliers he needed to pull out the nail were juuusttt out of reach.

181 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:22pm

re: #158 Tigger2005

I'm sure Fiskie boy asked the same question about Iraq.

And now we have Petraeus overseeing the Afghan theater as well.

We haven't even BEGUN to really lay the smack down on the assholes.


We can spread the rumor that Fisk is actually part of the CIA advance team, in 5 years he will be explaining that Moscow will be the ultimate disaster for the foolish Americans or Beijing will be our tomb.
He could do a tag team with Bagdad Bob.

182 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:22pm

I give up.

183 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:25pm

re: #151 Outrider

I knew what you had meant-I just clarified a little. ;-)>

Lizards need to keep each other on their toes!

184 coquimbojoe  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:43pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

Who's creationism? I have home and we and Sunday School for that.

185 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:39:51pm

re: #177 MandyManners

Between this one and No. 143, I gotta' ask a personal question: WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?

Football's over for the night.

186 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:05pm

re: #182 MandyManners

I give up.

Mandy - what are you giving up on?

187 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:12pm

re: #162 lifeofthemind

yes, fall chores.
how are you?

188 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:21pm
189 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:23pm

re: #137 ploome hineni

Nope. There were more choices than just those two.
I just can't find anything I disagree with with this one.
I stumbled on it by accident, wasn't looking, was a hard-core agnostic, which is what my dad was concerned about.

190 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:30pm

re: #186 reine.de.tout

Mandy - what are you giving up on?

nevah mind.

191 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:40:45pm

re: #171 faraway

Read a few lines of Genesis.

WRONG! You let on religion have their say in the science classroom, other's are going to want a turn. Also- it violates the Constitution anyways. You want to teach your kids creationism- knock yourself out. But you have to do it at home and/or church. I'm not letting you teach my kids that.

192 Charles  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:41:02pm

proselytize - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

pros·e·ly·tize

Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
Date:1679

intransitive verb

1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb

: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

193 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:41:05pm

Hey all y'all - not so late to the party this time, but still wondering if we're on topic still ?

194 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:41:47pm

re: #174 formercorpsman

LOTM, there is always room for disagreement, and quite a few people who post on other subjects have elected to just watch from the sidelines.

There is no rule to post on every thread.

Tempers do tend to flare from every perspective here, so why get banned?

lol
/sarc happy now?

195 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:41:56pm

re: #184 coquimbojoe

Who's creationism? I have home and we and Sunday School for that.

Just teach that we don' t have all the answers as to how man was created and that there are various theories. That's all.

196 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:42:21pm

re: #193 realwest

Hey all y'all - not so late to the party this time, but still wondering if we're on topic still ?

Turtle stacking, how many, how do they stay balanced and who stacked 'em.

197 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:42:27pm

re: #141 reine.de.tout

Whatcha looking for out of Louisiana?

Louisiana passes first antievolution "academic freedom" law

/so far, nothing, probably because they know they'll get their asses handed to them in court if they try

198 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:00pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

Which creationism? I favor the creation story of Todd Palin's Yup'ik Eskimo tribe.

Look. Evolution has been around for 150 years. Darwin spent decades doing research and making painstaking observations and looking at his data carefully before he even proposed the theory. ALL the evidence gathered since Darwin proposed the theory has supported and strengthened it.

"Creation science" and its more sophisticated offspring, "Intelligent Design" are pseudosciences devised for a very specific purpose, getting religion into schools. They were consciously devised to hoodwink people. They are lies, and the people promoting them are knowingly practicing dishonesty and deception.

Why should we teach kids lies as if they are truth, and then let them decide between the lies and the truth?

Would you have us teach kids astrology and alchemy as well?

199 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:08pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

Children can learn, in religion class, at home, at church, that God is the Creator of all.

Then in science class, they can learn about all the intricate, complicated, wonderful ways that God created for the world to work, including how life evolved and is evolving.

The two things are not incompatible.
They just belong to two differentl realms of study.

200 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:30pm

re: #182 MandyManners

I give up.

Hi Mandy!
I was having trouble with my keyboard earlier.
It's all fixed now.
You know, you're my favorite!

*smooch, kissy kissy*

201 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:30pm

re: #191 Sharmuta

WRONG! You let on religion have their say in the science classroom, other's are going to want a turn. Also- it violates the Constitution anyways. You want to teach your kids creationism- knock yourself out. But you have to do it at home and/or church. I'm not letting you teach my kids that.

I see you don't know much about religion otr the Constitution.

Belief in God is not a religion.

Many religions use Genesis.

202 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:42pm

re: #171 faraway

Read a few lines of Genesis.

What about students who aren't Jewish, Muslim, or Christian?

203 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:43pm

re: #156 cliffster

Last day of summer! Hope everyone's gathering up nuts and such to stash for winter.

you have raised a very important point. people need to know that survival may entail more than what food stuffs appear on the grocery store shelves, like magic.

204 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:45pm

re: #187 nyc redneck

yes, fall chores.
how are you?


Sound as the dollar
For the love of God someone call the paramedics
Tomorrow there is a campaign event at a Columbus Ave street fair.

205 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:48pm

re: #197 Killian Bundy

Louisiana passes first antievolution "academic freedom" law

/so far, nothing, probably because they know they'll get their asses handed to them in court if they try

I have seen nothing in the local news on TV or in the papers.

206 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:43:53pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

Teach 2+2=5. Let the students decide.

207 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:07pm

re: #171 faraway

Read a few lines of Genesis.

Ok, I just read a few lines of Genesis.. now what? Is this a scavenger hunt?

208 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:38pm

re: #201 faraway

I see you don't know much about biology.

209 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:44:49pm

re: #193 realwest

Hey all y'all - not so late to the party this time, but still wondering if we're on topic still ?


When have you known me to stay on topic old friend?

210 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:45:12pm

re: #201 faraway

I see you don't know much about religion otr the Constitution.

Belief in God is not a religion.

Many religions use Genesis.

Three religions use Genesis.

And yes, belief in God is religion, or the word has no meaning at all.

211 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:45:30pm

re: #195 faraway

Just teach that we don' t have all the answers as to how man was created and that there are various theories. That's all.

Charles, I am disappointed in you.

212 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:46:08pm

re: #198 Tigger2005

Which creationism? I favor the creation story of Todd Palin's Yup'ik Eskimo tribe.
[SNIP]

Do you have the link that was posted on that?
I thought that was one of the neatest tales I've read, and forgot to bookmark it.

213 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:46:11pm

re: #201 faraway

Oh- and please enlighten me as to where in the Constitution it's permitted for state institutions to promote religion. I'll wait.

214 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:46:15pm

re: #196 jcm Ah, back to the basics!
How are ya doing tonight my friend?

215 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:46:33pm

re: #201 faraway

I see you don't know much about religion otr the Constitution.

Belief in God is not a religion.

Many religions use Genesis.

I had an argument with Sharmuta about the constitution the other night. And I lost. Have at it, though..

216 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:46:47pm

re: #194 lifeofthemind

If I missed it, forgive me.

I am sun burned pretty good, been doing the football thing all day with the kids, and just trying to get a little keyboard time in before I hit the sack my man.

217 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:47:35pm

re: #143 faraway

Teach creationism. Let the students decide the truth.

/why not teach Holocaust denial?

218 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:47:36pm

re: #211 faraway

Why are you begging to get banned?

219 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:48:17pm

re: #216 formercorpsman

Hard choice, shower sunburned or go to bed still sticky? Both can be real painful.

220 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:48:22pm

re: #200 jwb7605

Put the bottle down, drink lotsa' water and go to bed.

221 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:48:24pm

re: #204 lifeofthemind

Sound as the dollar
For the love of God someone call the paramedics
Tomorrow there is a campaign event at a Columbus Ave street fair.

i hope you're going.
take a flag.

222 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:49:09pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

I see you don't know much about biology.

don't know much about biology.

223 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:49:40pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Why are you begging to get banned?

That was my shtick tonite. Someone's horning in on my act.

224 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:49:56pm

re: #219 lifeofthemind

I'm a real guy..

Sticky.

225 uscmsne  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:29pm

There's a reason it's called Faith. Either you have it or you don't.

226 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:33pm

re: #223 lifeofthemind

That was my shtick tonite. Someone's horning in on my act.

it's going to take more than that to get banned.
that was funny.

227 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:50:37pm

re: #212 jwb7605

Do you have the link that was posted on that?
I thought that was one of the neatest tales I've read, and forgot to bookmark it.

I didn't see that link, but maybe it's this?

[Link: www.sacred-texts.com...]

228 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:51:56pm

re: #225 uscmsne

There's a reason it's called Faith. Either you have it or you don't.

Care to expound on that?

229 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:52:23pm

i sat on the floor and petted my dog for an hour this evening. he purred like a kitty. it's important to be kind to those we love.

230 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:52:44pm
5. Creation of the World.1

The Raven and his wife created the world. They made the cape of Uñi´sak out of a nose of an eider-duck (Somatheria spectabilis); the peninsula of Alaska, of a long belt-knife; and the island Ima´lik (one of the Diomedes), of a button of the scabbard (with which it is clasped around the hip). They made reindeer of their hair, and dogs of their nails, and sea-water of their urine.

faraway, I think we should teach kids this creation story.

231 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:52:58pm

re: #228 Lynn B.

Care to expound on that?

Believe in God, don't believe in God.

/it's called a dichotomy

232 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:53:01pm

re: #211 faraway
Listen, this topic or the concept of ID and evolution I'm afraid sometimes brings out the worst and the best in different posters.
I usually avoid 'em cause I do believe in God, in Jesus Christ as my savior and I believe in evolution. I've been criticized out here for saying that, to the effect that you can't believe in God and evolution. I don't bother to respond, cause, from MY perspective religion is a personal issue and the only damn reason I've ever said that about God, Jesus and evolution is to rebut the notion that you can't believe in a Judeo Christian God and believe in evolution.
But really, to say you're disappointed in Charles is, well, disappointing. But I do think Charles will learn to live with your disappointment with him.

233 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:53:03pm

re: #225 uscmsne

There you are?

So is it USC, Master in Nuclear Engineering?

We had a debate about your nic the other night.

Faith is "proved" spiritually.

234 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:53:10pm

re: #218 MandyManners

Why are you begging to get banned?

I trust that Charles operates a blog that allows the free exchange of ideas. (within reasonable bounds, of course)

235 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:04pm

re: #230 Tigger2005

faraway, I think we should teach kids this creation story.

I think we should teach of Iluvitar's creation.

236 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:13pm

re: #220 MandyManners

Put the bottle down, drink lotsa' water and go to bed.

It's Saturday night

237 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:21pm

re: #231 Killian Bundy

Believe in God, don't believe in God.

/it's called a dichotomy

Yes, I do know that. But when someone who's only been registered here for 3 days posts a comment like that on a thread like this, it's a little ambiguous. Just asking for clarification is all.

238 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:23pm

re: #230 Tigger2005

faraway, I think we should teach kids this creation story.

You just taught it to me and I did no go crawling under my desk in a screaming fit (like some here).

Sounds OK to me, teach it. Say it's what the Eskimos believe. So what?

239 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:32pm

re: #193 realwest

Hey all y'all - not so late to the party this time, but still wondering if we're on topic still ?

"All our Creationism are belongs to you".....take it away.

240 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:55:57pm

re: #209 lifeofthemind
Well actually until some other folks take it off topic.
BTW, I thought your post was funny but adding the sarc tag in a thread like this is always a good idea.

241 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:56:46pm

re: #227 Tigger2005

I didn't see that link, but maybe it's this?

[Link: www.sacred-texts.com...]

Not the same one, but I bookmarked this one.
What I was thinking about maybe didn't come from Todd's Yup'ik ancestry.

242 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:56:57pm

re: #221 nyc redneck

i hope you're going.
take a flag.

In the afternoon, more info from the local group was given by email, could you join?
Any plans for watching the debates?
Dinner jacket come to town, without Palin to greet at rally.

Busy week

243 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:57:09pm

re: #237 Lynn B.

Yes, I do know that. But when someone who's only been registered here for 3 days posts a comment like that on a thread like this, it's a little ambiguous. Just asking for clarification is all.

I was waiting for some clarification, too.

244 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:58:35pm

re: #238 faraway

You just taught it to me and I did no go crawling under my desk in a screaming fit (like some here).

Sounds OK to me, teach it. Say it's what the Eskimos believe. So what?

Yeah- except it's not science and therefore doesn't belong in a science class.

245 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:59:13pm

re: #244 Sharmuta

Yeah- except it's not science and therefore doesn't belong in a science class.

Is belief in dark matter science?

246 kansas  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 8:59:48pm

Obama up in polls. We discuss creationism. Hey! Look over there.
Isn't that President Barack Obama?

247 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:00:21pm

re: #238 faraway

You just taught it to me and I did no go crawling under my desk in a screaming fit (like some here).

Sounds OK to me, teach it. Say it's what the Eskimos believe. So what?

While that might be an appopriate topic in a sociology, or perhaps a literature class, it is not science, and does not belong in a science class.

It is not math, and does not belong in a math class.

It is not my religion, and so it does not belong in my religion classes.

The issue is the appropriate place to teach things, not that people should be kept from knowledge.

248 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:00:26pm

re: #229 nyc redneck

i sat on the floor and petted my dog for an hour this evening. he purred like a kitty. it's important to be kind to those we love.


I did the same thing, took the beast to the run and then was relentlessly affectionate. Sheep dog does not like to roll on back so he raises his paws and rolls onto side and licks me, affectionate but not to submissive.

249 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:00:51pm

re: #238 faraway

You just taught it to me and I did no go crawling under my desk in a screaming fit (like some here).

Sounds OK to me, teach it. Say it's what the Eskimos believe. So what?

So what is, why teach it in a science classroom? It's not science. Evolution is science. Do you think science teachers have unlimited amounts of time to try to cram some understanding of basic science into the heads of a bunch of undisciplined and easily distracted kiddies, while at the same time teaching them every creation story ever invented by man?

Creation stories can be taught and discussed in comparative religion classes. In science classes, I favor Sarah Palin's approach ... if kids bring up creationism, acknowledge it, spend some time discussing it in relation to evolution (creation is faith, evolution is science, they don't have to be incompatible, but this is a science class so we need to focus on science), and move on.

250 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:11pm

re: #228 Lynn B.

Care to expound on that?

"Now, Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidince of things not seen,"
The Apostle Paul

/you decide

251 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:23pm

re: #249 Tigger2005

So what is, why teach it in a science classroom? It's not science. Evolution is science. Do you think science teachers have unlimited amounts of time to try to cram some understanding of basic science into the heads of a bunch of undisciplined and easily distracted kiddies, while at the same time teaching them every creation story ever invented by man?

Creation stories can be taught and discussed in comparative religion classes. In science classes, I favor Sarah Palin's approach ... if kids bring up creationism, acknowledge it, spend some time discussing it in relation to evolution (creation is faith, evolution is science, they don't have to be incompatible, but this is a science class so we need to focus on science), and move on.

good idea.

252 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:29pm

re: #245 faraway

Is belief in dark matter science?

Yes, because there are very good reasons to believe that dark matter exists.

253 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:53pm

re: #249 Tigger2005
Yay! What you said!

254 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:54pm

re: #245 faraway

Is belief in dark matter science?

Belief or the hypothesis / theory that explains the behavior of the universe?

I don't believe or dis-believe in dark matter. I look at data, evidence etc.. and make conclusions.

255 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:02:55pm

re: #223 lifeofthemind

That was my shtick tonite. Someone's horning in on my act.

Thought I saw that somewhere earlier. Thanks.

256 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:03pm

re: #248 lifeofthemind

Weird. My dog actually sat there and let me pet him for about 10 minutes straight today. That never happens. He's a beardie. He doesn't ever sit in one place that long,

257 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:15pm

re: #245 faraway

Dark matter is a scientific hypothesis which is currently undergoing scientific tests.

So tell me- what testable, falsifiable hypotheses does ID or creationism put forth? What testable, falsifiable theories have been presented by the DI or other creationist groups? On what grounds can the DI or other creationist groups claim that ID or creationism is a scientific theory?

258 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:21pm

Crharles, you must get tired of all the same arguments over and over. I know I don't have any new ones to add to tre: #247 reine.de.tout

While that might be an appopriate topic in a sociology, or perhaps a literature class, it is not science, and does not belong in a science class.

It is not math, and does not belong in a math class.

It is not my religion, and so it does not belong in my religion classes.

The issue is the appropriate place to teach things, not that people should be kept from knowledge.

So what do you teach in a science class about the origins of man? The origins of the universe?

Science? or science beliefs? (monkeys and dark matter)

I suggest teaching either nothing - or the major theories about these issues.

259 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:23pm

re: #238 faraway

You just taught it to me and I did no go crawling under my desk in a screaming fit (like some here).

Sounds OK to me, teach it. Say it's what the Eskimos believe. So what?

Cool. How much time should be allocated to it in the mandated biology curriculum for, say, Omaha, Nebraska? Atlanta, GA? Philadelphia, PA? And then how much time should then be allocated to every other creation story that any citizen suggests be given equal exposure?

260 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:03:38pm

WA Gov. debate on!

261 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:04:10pm

re: #246 kansas

Obama up in polls. We discuss creationism. Hey! Look over there.
Isn't that President Barack Obama?

Oh, what?

/is there something we can do right now to keep Obama from being elected?

262 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:04:50pm

re: #258 faraway

Crharles, you must get tired of all the same arguments over and over. I know I don't have any new ones to add to t

So what do you teach in a science class about the origins of man? The origins of the universe?

Science? or science beliefs? (monkeys and dark matter)

I suggest teaching either nothing - or the major theories about these issues.

You're not making any sense.

263 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:13pm

re: #252 Tigger2005

Yes, because there are very good reasons to believe that dark matter exists.

Does anyone here see the irony in this answer?

264 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:25pm

re: #258 faraway

So what do you teach in a science class about the origins of man? The origins of the universe?

Science? or science beliefs? (monkeys and dark matter)

I suggest teaching either nothing - or the major theories about these issues.

I suggest teaching ... SCIENCE (not religion).

/so does the US Constitution.

265 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:43pm

re: #263 faraway

You also don't know much about cosmology.

266 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:05:43pm

Well, it is a wonderful world. I certainly don't know much biology, so I turned to the learned Sam Cooke and this is what he had to offer.

267 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:06:18pm

Rossi is running against his opponent.

Gregoire is running against GWB.

268 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:06:26pm

re: #248 lifeofthemind

I did the same thing, took the beast to the run and then was relentlessly affectionate. Sheep dog does not like to roll on back so he raises his paws and rolls onto side and licks me, affectionate but not to submissive.

oh, that's wonderful.
my big boy was a foundling, so he has issues. i'm so happy i can give him a soft bed by a nice warm fire place. he appreciates it. i know.

269 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:06:33pm

re: #261 Killian Bundy
Hey Killian

is there something we can do right now to keep Obama from being elected?


Is there ever anything we can do out here to keep him from being elected (short, of course, of Charles or some lizard coming up with the equivalent of Rathergate)?

270 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:06:41pm

re: #252 Tigger2005

Yes, because there are very good reasons to believe that dark matter exists.

FWIW,
Dark Matter Mapped in a Supercluster of Galaxies

271 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:07:37pm

re: #266 Syrah
Ah, thanks - one of my fav's from back when it was new!

272 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:04pm

re: #267 jcm

Rossi is running against his opponent.

Gregoire is running against GWB.

They all seem to think that it is a workable strategy.

Can it work for them?

273 uscmsne  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:16pm

Ire: #228 Lynn B.

Care to expound on that?

My Senior English class was a Humanities course where we read the Old Testament as a foundation for the Hebrew Culture. The token blonde (all stereotypes implied) spoke up, informed the class that she was a believer and couldn't understand why if Yahweh was so Omnipotent, why couldn't He just give us a sign. The token agnostic (no stereotypes to speak of) immediately responded with that line. Its a little something called Faith, either you have it or you don't. I've never heard a more succint and honest answer about religious beliefs from anyone. 10 years later, I am still impressed by that simple sentence and the weight that it carries.

JCM, I showed up later, I've become the Old Geezer in my neighborhood chasing off the kids who sneak off to the pavilion to drink and screw. I don't think I'd have a problem with kids "socializing" if they hadn't already showed their trustworthiness by carving their initials and what-not into the pond-side swings and "misplacing" their dirty rubbers.

Yes, USC. Go Cocks! Although my collegiate allegiences are skewed. Don't ask. War Eagle, anyone?

274 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:28pm

faraway, it appears you don't know a whole lot, compared to the aggregate knowledge here in this forum. Why don't you lay back and just read awhile?

275 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:43pm

re: #257 Sharmuta

Dark matter is a scientific hypothesis which is currently undergoing scientific tests.

So tell me- what testable, falsifiable hypotheses does ID or creationism put forth? What testable, falsifiable theories have been presented by the DI or other creationist groups? On what grounds can the DI or other creationist groups claim that ID or creationism is a scientific theory?

You keep trying to paint me as a far out wacko dinosaurs-are-4,000-years-old believer. You are not very logical to be such a science believer. I have not given any facts for you to reach those conclusions.

276 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:47pm

re: #258 faraway

Crharles, you must get tired of all the same arguments over and over. I know I don't have any new ones to add to t

So what do you teach in a science class about the origins of man? The origins of the universe?

Science? or science beliefs? (monkeys and dark matter)

I suggest teaching either nothing - or the major theories about these issues.

Please don't think I was agreeing with you, because I was not.

The religious origins of the universe belong in religion classes - or, perhaps, sociology classes, literature classes, etc.

The how and why of how the universe functions on a day to day basis, and how it came to be and how it is changing - is science.

As I said earlier, the two things are different realms of study.

277 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:08:56pm

re: #269 realwest

Hey Killian


Is there ever anything we can do out here to keep him from being elected (short, of course, of Charles or some lizard coming up with the equivalent of Rathergate)?

If we get this photo out there it will finish Obama.

278 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:09:36pm

re: #259 Lynn B.

Cool. How much time should be allocated to it in the mandated biology curriculum for, say, Omaha, Nebraska? Atlanta, GA? Philadelphia, PA? And then how much time should then be allocated to every other creation story that any citizen suggests be given equal exposure?

So, you vote none?

279 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:09:42pm

re: #263 faraway

Does anyone here see the irony in this answer?

No. There's no irony in it. But perhaps I should have qualified: there are very good scientific reasons to believe that dark matter exists. I suppose your meaning is, there are very good reasons to believe that creation is true. Perhaps, but they are subjective reasons. There is no way to demonstrate their validity in any objective manner.

280 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:10:27pm

re: #274 Noam Sayin'

faraway, it appears you don't know a whole lot, compared to the aggregate knowledge here in this forum. Why don't you lay back and just read awhile?

The thing is, I don't pretend to know it all.

281 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:10:37pm

re: #269 realwest

Is there ever anything we can do out here to keep him from being elected (short, of course, of Charles or some lizard coming up with the equivalent of Rathergate)?

/well, I plan on voting for McCain/Palin and Norm Coleman but it's not time yet

282 nyc redneck  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:10:58pm

re: #246 kansas

Obama up in polls. We discuss creationism. Hey! Look over there.
Isn't that President Barack Obama?

nope. it's not.
that's the guy who lost. and in fact, was trounced badly.
(imagine how far down in the polls he really is, if they just have him even now)

283 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:18pm

re: #275 faraway

You keep trying to paint me as a far out wacko dinosaurs-are-4,000-years-old believer. You are not very logical to be such a science believer. I have not given any facts for you to reach those conclusions.

I've done no such thing. You came in here advocating the teaching of creationism, so you painted yourself. Furthermore, I merely asked a few questions of a person who advocated teaching creationism to answer the long standing question of how it's science.

284 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:22pm

re: #275 faraway

You keep trying to paint me as a far out wacko dinosaurs-are-4,000-years-old believer. You are not very logical to be such a science believer. I have not given any facts for you to reach those conclusions.

I see nothing in Sharmuta's questions that suggests he's painting you as a wacko young-earth creationist.

285 Moe Katz  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:22pm

A turkey has light matter and dark matter; some prefer one, some the other.

286 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:35pm

re: #278 faraway

So, you vote none?

I vote "none" in SCIENCE CLASSES.

"Creation stories" can appopriately be taught elsewhere.

My faith, and that faith only, is appropriate for my religion classes.

287 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:11:57pm

re: #277 jcm
ROTFLMAO! Don't know where you got that, but its one of the few funny Obama photoshopped images I've ever seen!
Huh? Whaddya mean it wasn't photoshopped?! Really?

288 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:12:03pm

re: #273 uscmsne

(not trying to start anything, but) Roll Tide!

289 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:12:07pm

re: #258 faraway

Crharles, you must get tired of all the same arguments over and over. I know I don't have any new ones to add to t


So what do you teach in a science class about the origins of man? The origins of the universe?

Science? or science beliefs? (monkeys and dark matter)

I suggest teaching either nothing - or the major theories about these issues.

You feel the Spirit within you? That's great. Science is all about drawing conclusions from facts that are present, and then drawing conclusions from those conclusions. That's the thing about science - everything is up for debate, everything has to be proven. I assume that you don't generally second-guess your faith based on new facts that come in. Given that, I'm not sure why anyone would want their faith taught in a science class.

290 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:04pm

re: #280 faraway

The thing is, I don't pretend to know it all.

Oh ho! And scientists do, I suppose.

291 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:15pm

re: #284 Tigger2005

I'm a she....

292 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:31pm

re: #289 cliffster

You feel the Spirit within you? That's great. Science is all about drawing conclusions from facts that are present, and then drawing conclusions from those conclusions. That's the thing about science - everything is up for debate, everything has to be proven. I assume that you don't generally second-guess your faith based on new facts that come in. Given that, I'm not sure why anyone would want their faith taught in a science class.

Whoa. Very very well said.

293 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:13:36pm

re: #278 faraway

So, you vote none?

Yes, but my vote doesn't count a lot. The SCOTUS voted the same way, though. So for now, that's where we're at.

294 uscmsne  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:14:08pm

re: #288 Gearhead

(not trying to start anything, but) Roll Tide!

That's right, Brother! Roll Tide!

/// I was hoping to set some of those losers up for another smack down! ///

295 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:14:15pm

re: #291 Sharmuta

I'm a she....

Would I be a racist if I also pointed out you are blue?
/

296 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:10pm

re: #277 jcm

If we get this photo out there it will finish Obama.

I think you've managed to combine all the subtopics on this thread in one image.

And realwest, don't despair about Obama. Biden has a plan, and he's working it.

297 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:41pm

re: #295 jwb7605

Would I be a racist if I also pointed out you are blue?
/

But she doesn't sound "blueish".

298 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:15:52pm

re: #281 Killian Bundy
Well I plan on voting McCain/Palin and Elizabeth Dole but it's not time yet.
Though I gotta tell ya it sure seems like it should be time by now; this (these including primaries) election season seems to have lasted forever already!

299 stymie  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:10pm

I'm from NC and agree that creationism should be taught. From the Bible, we can prove that the earth and universe was created in 11,013BC. The Lord created the earth with apparent age, which explains why we can see stars millions of light years away. What is more important, however, is that the last day of the earth's existence will be May 21, 2,011. Are you ready?
Darwin said in the last few days before his death,"I was a young man with unformed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions, wondering all the time over everything: and to my astonishment the ideas took hold like wildfire. People made a religion out of them". He was bedridden for a long time before his death and assiduously studied the Bible, calling Hebrews "the Royal Book".
It's only what we think on our deathbed that counts for eternity.

300 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:18pm

re: #280 faraway

The thing is, I don't pretend to know it all.

Never said you did. In fact, I implied that you don't know much at all.

301 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:33pm

re: #178 Sharmuta

"I was out in Ohio," he said, clutching a football. "I told the folks in Ohio that we'd kick Ohio State's ass!"

You go, Joe!

Dumber words were never spoken by a candidate on a Presidential ticket. Well other than "Sure I'd love to ride in that tank. Can I wear a helmet?"

302 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:16:56pm

re: #246 kansas

Obama up in polls. We discuss creationism. Hey! Look over there.
Isn't that President Barack Obama?

It's almost midnight. I suspect if I start knocking on my neighbor's doors and asking them to vote McCain/Palin, it would be rather counterproductive.

I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!

303 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:10pm

re: #301 Mich-again

LOL!

304 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:12pm
305 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:23pm

re: #294 uscmsne

That's right, Brother! Roll Tide!

/// I was hoping to set some of those losers up for another smack down! ///

This sucker is in the dumps.
The Mariners are going to be the first team with $100 million pay roll to lose 100 games.
The Seahawks lost the first two.
The Huskies aren't showing much.
The Sonics? What Sonics.

Boise State looks good, but can't stand smurf turf.

306 wright1  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:17:43pm

re: #232 realwest

Listen, this topic or the concept of ID and evolution I'm afraid sometimes brings out the worst and the best in different posters.
I usually avoid 'em cause I do believe in God, in Jesus Christ as my savior and I believe in evolution. I've been criticized out here for saying that, to the effect that you can't believe in God and evolution. I don't bother to respond, cause, from MY perspective religion is a personal issue and the only damn reason I've ever said that about God, Jesus and evolution is to rebut the notion that you can't believe in a Judeo Christian God and believe in evolution.
But really, to say you're disappointed in Charles is, well, disappointing. But I do think Charles will learn to live with your disappointment with him.

I have also tried to avoid these posts because they get overly contentious. But, I may have something to offer. I also am a person who believes in the God and the Trinity and yes, Christ is my savior. I am also a devout follower of Mary. HOWEVER, God could have readily forced us to worship in submission. He did not. Faith is a matter of free choice.

Is there a part of me that would like to have Christianity taught even in a public school? On some level - yes, because I believe it is the path to one's salvation. BUT, indoctrination of the Faith in a public school will readily permit other religions to be taught. I may be wrong, but I believe that Islam is not the way to God. Again, I may be wrong, but I think it is a step-brother of other Faiths which has managed to engender some degree of credibility even though its principles are fundamentally flawed, namely, at its core, it supports philosophies that on their face cannot be Holy - such as lying, and more significantly Jihad - which in the end calls for the death of not only the apostate but also the infidel.

The idea that that a religion like Islam must be taught in a public school is an anathema to me. There are many other religions that are equally disturbing on their face.


As such, I recognize that there must be a separation in the classroom. I do not think a class in "religions of the world" is inherently bad. But there is a Pandora's box element to consider - as we can see in Britain now...

The arguments in these threads tend to result in acrimony - quickly. But, having read through many, I do not frankly ever feel that "believers" are relegated to some type of leper status - in fact, sound defense of the Faith is always welcome. And, as stated, I can understand why there is rebellion from having it [religion/creationism, taught. That does not mean I won't stop sharing what I consider the "Good News" but, it will be with and to people who are open to hearing the Word and not who are captive(s).


I hope that helps Faraway get a grip on why others do not agree with you in lock-step.

307 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:18:56pm

Hey there, faraway- still waiting on the section of the Constitution that allows a state institution to promote a religion....

308 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:08pm

re: #305 jcm

Boise State looks good, but can't stand smurf turf.

Are you dissing my pal Sharmuta?

309 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:29pm

re: #304 ploome hineni

sometimes it doesn;t matter

:D

per-zactly.

310 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:43pm

re: #297 IslandLibertarian

But she doesn't sound "blueish".

Click her icon. It's blatant. She's hiding something
//

311 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:49pm

re: #273 uscmsne

My Senior English class was a Humanities course where we read the Old Testament as a foundation for the Hebrew Culture. The token blonde (all stereotypes implied) spoke up, informed the class that she was a believer and couldn't understand why if Yahweh was so Omnipotent, why couldn't He just give us a sign. The token agnostic (no stereotypes to speak of) immediately responded with that line. Its a little something called Faith, either you have it or you don't. I've never heard a more succint and honest answer about religious beliefs from anyone. 10 years later, I am still impressed by that simple sentence and the weight that it carries.

JCM, I showed up later, I've become the Old Geezer in my neighborhood chasing off the kids who sneak off to the pavilion to drink and screw. I don't think I'd have a problem with kids "socializing" if they hadn't already showed their trustworthiness by carving their initials and what-not into the pond-side swings and "misplacing" their dirty rubbers.

Yes, USC. Go Cocks! Although my collegiate allegiences are skewed. Don't ask. War Eagle, anyone?

And yet, for all that, I still don't get how "Faith, either you have it or you don't" applies to the topic of this thread.

/sorry... I'm slow?

312 uscmsne  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:51pm

re: #305 jcm

Boise State looks good, but can't stand smurf turf.

Their is a joke in that, somewhere...

313 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:19:52pm

re: #299 stymie

I'm from NC and agree that creationism should be taught. From the Bible, we can prove that the earth and universe was created in 11,013BC. The Lord created the earth with apparent age, which explains why we can see stars millions of light years away. What is more important, however, is that the last day of the earth's existence will be May 21, 2,011. Are you ready?
Darwin said in the last few days before his death,"I was a young man with unformed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions, wondering all the time over everything: and to my astonishment the ideas took hold like wildfire. People made a religion out of them". He was bedridden for a long time before his death and assiduously studied the Bible, calling Hebrews "the Royal Book".
It's only what we think on our deathbed that counts for eternity.

You're joking, right?

The Darwin deathbed story is sheer myth, by the way. Although the myth seems to have evolved since I last heard it.

314 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:20:20pm

re: #290 Tigger2005

Oh ho! And scientists do, I suppose.

Well, that's an important distinction. Some scientists think they know everything. Science, however, asks for a very humble approach to drawing conclusions.

315 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:20:56pm

re: #308 Mich-again

Are you dissing my pal Sharmuta?

shhhh! I was hoping she'd notice...

Every time I watch a Boise State home game I have to resist fiddling with the color settings.

316 jorline  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:17pm

Good evening, Lizards. I thought I would pop in and see my favorite green people before heading off to bed.

317 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:18pm

re: #306 wright1

Oh, I've been around here a while. It's fun to kick the hornet's nest every now and then.

318 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:21:35pm

re: #313 Tigger2005

You're joking, right?

Is their a word for creation thread Mobyism?

319 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:22:10pm

re: #317 faraway

Oh, I've been around here a while. It's fun to kick the hornet's nest every now and then.

People like you are scum.

320 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:22:59pm

re: #306 wright1

I do not frankly ever feel that "believers" are relegated to some type of leper status - in fact, sound defense of the Faith is always welcome.

That's not 100% true. There are some people posting stuff that is insulting and antagonistic towards "believers". Not going to name any names...

321 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:14pm

re: #271 realwest

Ah, thanks - one of my fav's from back when it was new!

In a blink, you realize that so many years have gone by. Years that were only just a yesterday the day before.

Music has a way of transporting us back to odd moments in time. Times that we would not have thought then would be important enough to remember 10, 20, 40 or more years on. But they are important. And we remember.

322 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:28pm

re: #307 Sharmuta

Hey there, faraway- still waiting on the section of the Constitution that allows a state institution to promote a religion....

You are going to have to find some 19 year old to debate with. All you do is avoid answering simple questions by asking other questions.

323 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:30pm

re: #318 Mich-again

Is their a word for creation thread Mobyism?

Croby?

324 stymie  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:37pm

re: #313 Tigger2005

You're joking, right?

The Darwin deathbed story is sheer myth, by the way. Although the myth seems to have evolved since I last heard it.

And you can prove it's a myth?

325 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:40pm

Is this Little Green Footballs or Pharyngula? I keep getting confused when posts like this appear.

326 Moe Katz  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:23:46pm

re: #297 IslandLibertarian

But she doesn't sound "blueish".

The Beach Boys recorded a song about her, called Smurf in USA.

327 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:01pm

Yes I do try to get sarcastic and avoid the topic but I can weigh in.

Science is not a body of knowledge or belief it is a method, a system of approaching the unknown based upon previously proven facts, observations and logical constructs that are constantly subject to refinement. The realm of the unknown in science never vanishes; in fact it can expand as new fields of exploration are developed. Science is at its core a combination of first inductive and then deductive interactions with evidence.

Religion starts with the answer and then deduces explanations that support the conclusion. That does not make it false. Attempting to use the methodology of science or logic to prove matters of faith is dangerous because the tools used are themselves constantly subject to testing and can be disproved.

That is what happened in the Middle Ages to Catholicism. To meet the challenges of Islam and heresies St Thomas Aquinas developed a brilliant logical model to prove the tenets of his faith. He did this using the accepted model of the greatest Philosopher known at that time Aristotle. The result was an intellectual tour de force called Scholasticism. There were two small problems. Aristotle was not a Christian but that could be papered over. More damaging was that as scientific knowledge increased, for example by the discovery of the curvature of the earth, old knowledge was proven imperfect. If Aristotelian conclusions could not be accepted a priori as perfect then how could arguments derived in an imitation of his method be perfect? This set up a crisis in the faith at during the Renaissance that contributed to the shift to Humanism and to the Reformation.

328 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:12pm

re: #322 faraway

You are going to have to find some 19 year old to debate with. All you do is avoid answering simple questions by asking other questions.

You are scum.

329 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:16pm

re: #299 stymie

It is possible, Stymie, that the words used for 'the world' in Scripture are of two types: the physical Earth (which term [kosmos] was used by Jesus ONCE, and not in connection with the coming of 'one, like unto the son of man') and 'the world of humanity' [aeon], which was used by Jesus 5 times, mainly in connection with the end of 'that day', 'that era', 'in THAT day'...

/a lifelong linguist, Stymie, seeking the meaning of the Word...

330 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:30pm

re: #299 stymie Hey stymie, I'm from North Carolina too and I disagree with you and most strongly disagree with you when you say: "It's only what we think on our deathbed that counts for eternity."
I think it's sorta how we live our lives that counts for eternity not some last minute change of heart. However, we could debate that all night long (well, maybe some other night, I'm really tired tonight) the real issue is should creationism or ID or ANY FORM OF RELIGION be taught in the Public Schools and I am firmly against that (other than perhaps some sort of philosophy or comparative religions course, but certainly not in any science courses.).
BTW - which part of North Carolina are you from?

331 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:24:53pm

re: #310 jwb7605

Click her icon. It's blatant. She's hiding something
//

I've never trusted a race of people with only one female and lives in mushrooms and inserts their name in every sentence.

/I'm not color blind when it comes to that

332 Lynn B.  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:15pm

re: #299 stymie

Oy vey...this again?

333 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:34pm

re: #325 Jinx McHue

Is this Little Green Footballs or Pharyngula? I keep getting confused when posts like this appear.

I think its pretty hard to be confused on this topic.

334 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:35pm

re: #331 IslandLibertarian

I've never trusted a race of people with only one female and lives in mushrooms and inserts their name in every sentence.

/I'm not color blind when it comes to that

Smurfist!

335 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:25:48pm

re: #316 jorline
Hello my friend, how are ya doing tonight?

336 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:26:09pm

I have my own creation myth. Gargamel created me so I could infiltrate Smurf village and report back to him where it was located. But then, Papa Smurf turned me good (and blond). Isn't that Smurfy? We should smurf that in science class.

337 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:04pm

re: #331 IslandLibertarian

Yeah, once you do, then you start having to add "ody" to your name.

338 jcm  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:11pm

Gregoire keeps shaking her fist as she makes points it's annoying.

She's a Gorebot too.

339 wright1  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:24pm

re: #320 cliffster

That's not 100% true. There are some people posting stuff that is insulting and antagonistic towards "believers". Not going to name any names...

I will have to take you a your word since I am fairly new - but if you truly believe, then you should readily be able to defend your beliefs. Those who disagree with your belief are free to attack but in the end it does not matter to those with Faith because your job is not to win a debate, but to save souls. That is what we are called to do.

340 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:30pm

re: #324 stymie

And you can prove it's a myth?

Claim CG001:
Darwin renounced evolution on his deathbed.
Source:
Enoch, H., 1916. Darwin's final recantation. Bombay Guardian, 25 March 1916, quoted at [Link: www.forerunner.com...]
Response:

1. The story of Darwin's recanting is not true. Shortly after Darwin's death, Lady Hope told a gathering that she had visited Darwin on his deathbed and that he had expressed regret over evolution and had accepted Christ. However, Darwin's daughter Henrietta, who was with him during his last days, said Lady Hope never visited during any of Darwin's illnesses, that Darwin probably never saw her at any time, and that he never recanted any of his scientific views (Clark 1984, 199; Yates 1994).

2. The story would be irrelevant even if true. The theory of evolution rests upon reams of evidence from many different sources, not upon the authority of any person or persons.

Links:
Greig, Russell, 1996. Did Darwin recant? Creation 18(1): 36-37. [Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

Yates, Simon, 1994. The Lady Hope story: A widespread falsehood. [Link: www.talkorigins.org...]
References:

1. Clark, Ronald W., 1984. The Survival of Charles Darwin: A biography of a man and an idea. New York: Random House.
2. Yates, Simon, 1994. (see above)

Further Reading:
Clark, Ronald W., 1984. The Survival of Charles Darwin: A biography of a man and an idea. New York: Random House.

Now let's see the evidence for your claim, which goes far beyond the common "deathbed recantation" myth.

341 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:31pm

re: #285 Moe Katz

A turkey has light matter and dark matter; some prefer one, some the other.

Still talking about politicians

342 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:27:35pm

re: #313 Tigger2005

You're joking, right?

The Darwin deathbed story is sheer myth, by the way. Although the myth seems to have evolved since I last heard it.

Best deathbed quote ever:
Either this wallpaper goes, or I do!
Oscar Wilde

343 rawmuse  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:17pm

My fellow Christians, I implore you to acknowledge that there simply is no percentage in being modern day "flat - earthers". Nor do I wish you any further ridicule, but if you insist, ridicule you shall have.

Leave the Dark Ages behind.

344 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:20pm

re: #322 faraway

You are going to have to find some 19 year old to debate with. All you do is avoid answering simple questions by asking other questions.

I have not avoided any of your questions- you've avoided mine.

345 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:20pm

re: #333 Mich-again

I think its pretty hard to be confused on this topic.

Yeah, you're right. It's better to just slam the door shut and not let anything but evolution into the classroom. Open-mindedness be damned!

346 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:48pm

re: #336 Sharmuta

I have my own creation myth. Gargamel created me so I could infiltrate Smurf village and report back to him where it was located. But then, Papa Smurf turned me good (and blond). Isn't that Smurfy? We should smurf that in science class.

I can grok it.

347 wright1  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:28:54pm

re: #317 faraway

Oh, I've been around here a while. It's fun to kick the hornet's nest every now and then.


Then you are fortified to defend yourself

348 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:01pm

I have a creation myth. A pinhead, that was not created by anyone, exploded and created the heavens and the earth - and man -and liberals. Now that's a doozy.

349 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:16pm

re: #316 jorline

Good evening, Lizards. I thought I would pop in and see my favorite green people before heading off to bed.

Good evening! I was hoping you'd drop by.

How are you doing? You can actually sleep with all that prednisone?

350 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:38pm

re: #302 Tigger2005
"I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!"
Mom and I haven't put one out just yet, but a really curious thing did happen today. While I was on LGF this morning, a young black woman and a VERY tall white man knocked on our door and said they were taking a political poll, did my Mom have time to take part in it. So I went to the door and said "sure, we'd love to!"
He asked us if we were Republicans, Democrats or Independents. Mom said Republicans. They thanked us and left!
Honest to God true story and I still don't know what to make of it.

351 jorline  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:29:51pm

re: #335 realwest

Hello my friend, how are ya doing tonight?

I'm doing ok, RW...sitting in the recliner and waiting for the sleeping pill to kick in. My internist is going to let me get the Ambian on Monday or Tuesday...thanks for the suggestion.

How are you tonight?

352 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:07pm
353 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:21pm

re: #345 Jinx McHue

Science can prove the story of creation as told in the book of Genesis is not correct. It can not prove that life happened on its own without a creator.

354 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:23pm

re: #321 Syrah

Music has a way of transporting us back to odd moments in time.

As does our other holistic sense, smell...
Running directly from the nose to the brain, our sense of smell can trigger COMPLETE memories of some long-forgotten time, and much more sensual than music (not to belittle music, Syrah)...

You're walking along the street, thinking of some problem and suddenly a woman passes by with THAT scent on, and within moments you're immersed in memories of THAT night, with THAT person, and what you experience at THAT time... :D

355 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:39pm

re: #343 rawmuse

re: #343 rawmuse

My fellow Christians, I implore you to acknowledge that there simply is no percentage in being modern day "flat - earthers". Nor do I wish you any further ridicule, but if you insist, ridicule you shall have.

Leave the Dark Ages behind.

So, then I guess Jesus was just off his meds the day that he spoke of Adam and Eve being a real people.

356 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:30:44pm

re: #345 Jinx McHue

Yeah, you're right. It's better to just slam the door shut and not let anything but evolution into the classroom. Open-mindedness be damned!

Evolution is science. Creationism is not. Therefore it doesn't belong in the science classroom- period.

357 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:16pm

re: #355 Jinx McHue

re: #343 rawmuse

So, then I guess Jesus was just off his meds the day that he spoke of Adam and Eve being a real people.

Link please.

358 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:47pm

re: #350 realwest

"I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!"
Mom and I haven't put one out just yet, but a really curious thing did happen today. While I was on LGF this morning, a young black woman and a VERY tall white man knocked on our door and said they were taking a political poll, did my Mom have time to take part in it. So I went to the door and said "sure, we'd love to!"
He asked us if we were Republicans, Democrats or Independents. Mom said Republicans. They thanked us and left!
Honest to God true story and I still don't know what to make of it.

May not have been a poll. It may have been a fundraiser, voter registration drive or a volunteer recruitment.

Did you ask them who they worked for?

359 galloping granny  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:57pm

re: #350 realwest

"I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!"
Mom and I haven't put one out just yet, but a really curious thing did happen today. While I was on LGF this morning, a young black woman and a VERY tall white man knocked on our door and said they were taking a political poll, did my Mom have time to take part in it. So I went to the door and said "sure, we'd love to!"
He asked us if we were Republicans, Democrats or Independents. Mom said Republicans. They thanked us and left!
Honest to God true story and I still don't know what to make of it.

Hi Real - I know what to make of that. A couple of folks looking to stack their polling data. How're you?

360 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:58pm

re: #355 Jinx McHue

re: #343 rawmuse

So, then I guess Jesus was just off his meds the day that he spoke of Adam and Eve being a real people.

Wow. Remind me to proofread my posts better when I go back and change them.

361 solomonpanting  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:31:59pm

re: #289 cliffster

Given that, I'm not sure why anyone would want their faith taught in a science class.

Yep.
Why not teach science in a religion class? Show how one can walk on water, perhaps? No disrespect intended, faraway.

362 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:32:22pm

re: #299 stymie

From the Bible, we can prove that the earth and universe was created in 11,013BC. The Lord created the earth with apparent age, which explains why we can see stars millions of light years away. What is more important, however, is that the last day of the earth's existence will be May 21, 2,011. Are you ready?

Got a linky for that?

/by the way, the world ends December 21st, 2012

363 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:32:23pm
364 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:32:30pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

Evolution is science. Creationism is not. Therefore it doesn't belong in the science classroom- period.

Because you say so.

365 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:32:36pm

Here we go.

I knew as soon as I made a thinly veiled Applewhite reference, this would happen.

366 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:32:54pm

re: #337 formercorpsman

Yeah, once you do, then you start having to add "ody" to your name.

this "ody"

367 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:08pm

re: #364 Jinx McHue

No- because creationism is not science.

368 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:12pm

re: #350 realwest

"I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!"
Mom and I haven't put one out just yet, but a really curious thing did happen today. While I was on LGF this morning, a young black woman and a VERY tall white man knocked on our door and said they were taking a political poll, did my Mom have time to take part in it. So I went to the door and said "sure, we'd love to!"
He asked us if we were Republicans, Democrats or Independents. Mom said Republicans. They thanked us and left!
Honest to God true story and I still don't know what to make of it.

Democrats doing voter identification. The survey is probably window dressing. The good thing is that if a Democrat candidate does a door-to-door walk in your neighborhood later on, they'll probably skip you.

369 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:15pm

From Mad Magazine's all purpose political smear speech, from 40 odd years ago:

My opponent has urged our Jewish and Protestant citizens to develop more catholic tastes.

370 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:17pm

re: #354 Karridine

As does our other holistic sense, smell...
Running directly from the nose to the brain, our sense of smell can trigger COMPLETE memories of some long-forgotten time, and much more sensual than music (not to belittle music, Syrah)...

You're walking along the street, thinking of some problem and suddenly a woman passes by with THAT scent on, and within moments you're immersed in memories of THAT night, with THAT person, and what you experience at THAT time... :D

Oh Yah. I know about that one. It can be jarring in its strength.

371 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:28pm

re: #366 IslandLibertarian

LNW.

372 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:38pm
373 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:33:43pm

re: #339 wright1

I will have to take you a your word since I am fairly new - but if you truly believe, then you should readily be able to defend your beliefs. Those who disagree with your belief are free to attack but in the end it does not matter to those with Faith because your job is not to win a debate, but to save souls. That is what we are called to do.

You don't have to defend your faith. And you shouldn't defend your faith. And the people arguing with you, trying to get you to defend your faith, which you shouldn't do, are not the ones whose souls you're going to save.

374 rawmuse  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:34:05pm

re: #355 Jinx McHue

re: #343 rawmuse

So, then I guess Jesus was just off his meds the day that he spoke of Adam and Eve being a real people.

And he does this where in the Gospels?

375 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:34:21pm

When did Jesus ever mention Adam and Eve. Please educate me.

376 jorline  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:35:00pm

re: #349 reine.de.tout

Good evening! I was hoping you'd drop by.

How are you doing? You can actually sleep with all that prednisone?

{reine}

Good to see you as well. Sleep is tough, but realwest suggested Ambian and my doc's going to write a script for it. I just took an over the counter sleeping pill and it should kick in soon. Tomorrow I get to lower my prednisone by 10mg...Yeah!

How are you?

377 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:35:20pm

re: #340 Tigger2005

Good work, thank you, Tigger! :D

378 uscmsne  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:35:58pm

re: #311 Lynn B.

And yet, for all that, I still don't get how "Faith, either you have it or you don't" applies to the topic of this thread.

/sorry... I'm slow?

The Heavens were formed from the void of space. The Earth and the Sun took shape. The moon forms. Life is formed in the seas. Life moves to the land. Man is created and takes position of dominance in the food chain. Is this Big Bang or Genesis? Both pretty much follow the same big picture sequence.

What's the statistical probability of all of this happening by chance? For some it's easier to believe science. For others, it's easier to believe in some form of religion. Either way, to look at time zero, it requires a certain amount of assumptions. Cosmic Chance or a Devine Being, you have to believe in something you can't sense.

379 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:36:11pm
380 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:36:31pm

re: #299 stymie

I'm from NC and agree that creationism should be taught. From the Bible, we can prove that the earth and universe was created in 11,013BC. The Lord created the earth with apparent age, which explains why we can see stars millions of light years away. What is more important, however, is that the last day of the earth's existence will be May 21, 2,011. Are you ready?
Darwin said in the last few days before his death,"I was a young man with unformed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions, wondering all the time over everything: and to my astonishment the ideas took hold like wildfire. People made a religion out of them". He was bedridden for a long time before his death and assiduously studied the Bible, calling Hebrews "the Royal Book".
It's only what we think on our deathbed that counts for eternity.

If that's what you want to believe, have at it. Just don't try to use public money to teach it in a public school.

381 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:36:34pm

re: #345 Jinx McHue

Yeah, you're right. It's better to just slam the door shut and not let anything but evolution into the classroom. Open-mindedness be damned!

Here we go again with that asinine "open-mindedness" argument.

Why should we teach anything but science in a science classroom? Are we being close-minded when we don't teach Math in English class? When we don't teach Home Economics in P.E.?

Creationism and I.D. are not science. They aren't even honest scientific hypotheses. They are intentionally deceptive pseudosciences. They don't belong in science class any more than do astrology and alchemy.

No one's saying you can't spend some time discussing creation beliefs in science class if kids bring them up, but science teachers don't have unlimited amounts of time. They have to focus on science.

It's great to be open-minded, but do we have to be so open-minded we let our brains fall out?

382 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:40pm

re: #379 ploome hineni

have you tried cookies and milk?

/carbs will put you to sleep

Nah, man, carbs keep you awake. It's the tryptophan in the milk that puts you to sleep.

383 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:41pm

re: #379 ploome hineni

have you tried cookies and milk?

/carbs will put you to sleep

Seriously?
When I can't sleep (or sleep fitfully), I pour a large glass of milk, and it always works. I thought it was psychological.

384 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:50pm

re: #357 Mich-again

Link please.

There is no link per se. It's in the Gospels. For instance, Matthew 19:4 and Mark 10:6.

And then there's that whole think about Jesus' genealogy from Adam on.

And all that stuff the other New Testament books say about Adam and Eve.

But let's just ignore that since it doesn't jive with evolution.

385 Tigger2005  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:52pm

re: #350 realwest

"I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!"
Mom and I haven't put one out just yet, but a really curious thing did happen today. While I was on LGF this morning, a young black woman and a VERY tall white man knocked on our door and said they were taking a political poll, did my Mom have time to take part in it. So I went to the door and said "sure, we'd love to!"
He asked us if we were Republicans, Democrats or Independents. Mom said Republicans. They thanked us and left!
Honest to God true story and I still don't know what to make of it.

Lucky you ... you gave the right answer ... you should have heard what they did to the people who answered Democrat! hehehehehe

386 jorline  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:37:54pm

re: #363 ploome hineni

why can;t you sleep?

/like it my business

I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis last week and they started me on a heavy dose of prednisone, 30mg per day. One of the nasty side affects is that it wires your brain all day and night.

387 wright1  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:17pm

re: #373 cliffster

You don't have to defend your faith. And you shouldn't defend your faith. And the people arguing with you, trying to get you to defend your faith, which you shouldn't do, are not the ones whose souls you're going to save.

I disagree with your comment to this extent: everyone's soul is worth saving. Even the person who tried to kill Pope John Paul who he forgave. And sure, we do not have to defend our Faith, but, if you want people to believe, you need to have a facility with what it is you believe in.

It is important to know what you believe and why it is you believe it. That is how you are a light to the world. That is how you obtain converts.

388 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:20pm

Bible Genealogy

/oral history written down thousands of years after the fact

389 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:21pm

Have fun guys.

390 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:31pm

Aslan talked about the sons of Adam and the Daughters of Eve. Completely different books. Charming and fun. They sometimes, but not always, have been made into halfway descent movies.

IIRC - Aslan sings creation into existence.

391 galloping granny  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:48pm

Did you folks see the story over at HotAir about the disinvite of Palin from the Ahmadinnerjacket demo? Apparently someone threatened the organizers with an IRS investigation and loss of their tax exempt status. . . . . . (gee, I wonder who that might have been?)

[Link: hotair.com...]

392 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:38:55pm

re: #389 formercorpsman

Have fun guys.

Don't get caught.

393 hazzyday  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:11pm

re: #110 Mich-again

Obama is not going to dump Joe Biden. There is no way he is that crazy to pull a stunt like that now.

If Obama were to flip flop on Biden as VP running mate he could just as likely flop on any of the lessor types of leadership decisions he has made poorly. Biden can only get out on a health or criminal issue. And he seems to be a more honest person than that.

394 jorline  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:12pm

re: #379 ploome hineni

have you tried cookies and milk?

/carbs will put you to sleep

No...but I could make a trip to the kitchen for a snack...lol

395 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:15pm

re: #381 Tigger2005

And isn't it fascinating that it's the liberals who are always arguing for open-mindedness when it comes to other topics, and right-wingers call that crazy, but if it comes to science, well then- some right-wingers feel it's a great argument then!

396 realwest  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:17pm

re: #343 rawmuse
Hey rawmuse, I didn't understand you when you said
"Nor do I wish you any further ridicule" - I haven't in fact read the entire thread, but I haven't seen folks ridiculing Christians - where did I miss that?

397 Eyes of Blue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:48pm

re: #302 Tigger2005

It's almost midnight. I suspect if I start knocking on my neighbor's doors and asking them to vote McCain/Palin, it would be rather counterproductive.

I do have my McCain/Palin yard sign out!

Me too! I got it today and one for my sister-in-law too.
My neighbor across the street threatened to steal it and put it in his yard. I'm the first one on my block to have any kind of campaign sign so I was a little worried at first.

398 Charles  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:39:53pm

re: #299 stymie

What is more important, however, is that the last day of the earth's existence will be May 21, 2,011.

Wow, that's less than 3 years. I don't know if my 401K is optimized for returns that soon.

Oh brother.

399 Jinx McHue  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:40:05pm

re: #367 Sharmuta

No- because creationism is not science.

Because you say so.

A heliocentric solar system used to be "not science" according to scientists.

Spontaneous generation used to be "science" according to scientists, too.

400 formercorpsman  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:40:05pm

re: #392 lifeofthemind

Only in my dreams.

401 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:05pm

e-Sword

/for when people start citing Bible verses, if you care

402 jwb7605  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:11pm

re: #398 Charles

Wow, that's less than 3 years. I don't know if my 401K is optimized for returns that soon.

Oh brother.

My advice is to dump it all in real estate while you still can.
//

403 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:13pm

re: #376 jorline

{reine}

Good to see you as well. Sleep is tough, but realwest suggested Ambian and my doc's going to write a script for it. I just took an over the counter sleeping pill and it should kick in soon. Tomorrow I get to lower my prednisone by 10mg...Yeah!

How are you?

Doing fine, my choco fudge cake with cream cheese icing that I baked (not broiled) in my new oven is awaiting a party.

404 Charles  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:15pm

re: #399 Jinx McHue

Because you say so.

A heliocentric solar system used to be "not science" according to scientists.

Spontaneous generation used to be "science" according to scientists, too.

Creationism is not science.

405 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:16pm

re: #399 Jinx McHue

Because you say so.

A heliocentric solar system used to be "not science" according to scientists.

Spontaneous generation used to be "science" according to scientists, too.

Man- I wish I had that kind of authority to deem what is and is not science. Thanks for the ego boost, though.

406 yochanan  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:18pm

HERE IS A DEAD HORSE

needs whiping

407 cliffster  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:19pm

re: #387 wright1

I disagree with your comment to this extent: everyone's soul is worth saving. Even the person who tried to kill Pope John Paul who he forgave. And sure, we do not have to defend our Faith, but, if you want people to believe, you need to have a facility with what it is you believe in.

It is important to know what you believe and why it is you believe it. That is how you are a light to the world. That is how you obtain converts.

But your faith and science is apples and oranges.

408 faraway  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:25pm

I would say that nobody logged in right now believes in "creationism" (4000 year old dinos, etc.).

The atheists here try to paint believers as creation wackos in order to stifle questions about their science beliefs.

409 Karridine  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:29pm

re: #373 cliffster

You don't have to defend your faith.

Exactly, Cliffster.
A 'faith attacker' is in the wrong, but it still does not necessitate another person 'defending their faith'...

/one person's belief is one person's belief
lief means/meant 'in the place of' : to 'belief' is to put oneself 'in the place of'

410 galloping granny  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:33pm

re: #383 jwb7605

Seriously?
When I can't sleep (or sleep fitfully), I pour a large glass of milk, and it always works. I thought it was psychological.

My grandmother swore by hot milk with a teaspoon of sugar in it. Always works for me. Good thing too as I am one of those folks that "sleeping pills" will keep awake for days on end.

411 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:41:52pm
412 lifeofthemind  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:42:10pm

re: #390 Syrah

Aslan talked about the sons of Adam and the Daughters of Eve. Completely different books. Charming and fun. They sometimes, but not always, have been made into halfway descent movies.

IIRC - Aslan sings creation into existence.

CS Lewis and JRR Tolkein were trading ideas back and forth at meetings of the Inklings. JRRT had his angels sing so CSL had his lion roar. Fortunately without any help from Elton John.

413 Syrah  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:42:26pm

re: #390 Syrah

descent = decent.

There has to some cosmological explanation for why and how spell checkers are both a blessing and a bane.

414 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:42:27pm
415 Charles  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:42:44pm

re: #408 faraway

I would say that nobody logged in right now believes in "creationism" (4000 year old dinos, etc.).

The atheists here try to paint believers as creation wackos in order to stifle questions about their science beliefs.

Wrong: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

416 Neo Con since 9-11  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:42:48pm

re: #353 Mich-again

Science can prove the story of creation as told in the book of Genesis is not correct. It can not prove that life happened on its own without a creator.

Technically that's not true science cannot disprove a literal interpretation of Genesis anymore than it can disprove the existence of elves or leprechauns

417 Gearhead  Sat, Sep 20, 2008 9:42:48pm