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Jawa Report: Orchestrated 'Grassroots' Smear Campaigns

Politics | Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:31:04 pm PDT

In a monumental post, Rusty Shackleford traces one of the sources of the smears against Sarah Palin and finds some not-too-surprising connections: The Jawa Report: Hope, Change, & Lies: Orchestrated ‘Grassroots’ Smear Campaigns & the People that Run Them.

Our research suggests that a subdivision of one of the largest public relations firms in the world most likely started and promulgated rumors about Sarah Palin that were known to be false. These rumors were spread in a surreptitious manner to avoid exposure.

It is also likely that the PR firm was paid by outside sources to run the smear campaign. While not conclusive, evidence suggests a link to the Barack Obama campaign. Namely:

* Evidence suggests that a YouTube video with false claims about Palin was uploaded and promoted by members of a professional PR firm.

* The family that runs the PR firm has extensive ties to the Democratic Party, the netroots, and are staunch Obama supporters.

* Evidence suggests that the firm engaged in a concerted effort to distribute the video in such a way that it would appear to have gone viral on its own. Yet this effort took place on company time.

* Evidence suggests that these distribution efforts included actions by at least one employee of the firm who is unconnected with the family running the company.

* The voice-over artist used in this supposedly amateur video is a professional.

* This same voice-over artist has worked extensively with David Axelrod’s firm, which has a history of engaging in phony grassroots efforts, otherwise known as “astroturfing.”

* David Axelrod is Barack Obama’s chief media strategist.

* The same voice-over artist has worked directly for the Barack Obama campaign.

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1 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:32:39pm

The racist Rev. Wright warned Obama about Axelrod and Axelrod returned the favor. Poor Barry!

2 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:32:55pm

Send to Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, stat!

(I expect Rush has already picked it up.)

3 itellu3times  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:34:09pm

Fake but astroturf.

4 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:34:18pm

Looks pretty damning to any person with common sense.

5 bryantms  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:34:21pm

Let's hope this gets big...

6 Intrepid  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:34:34pm

Can somebody explain to my tired brain the ramifications of this?

7 Rancher  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:34:49pm

We are the Blogs. Resistance is futile.

/ I am the eye in the sky

/ looking st you

8 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:35:21pm

I can already pick up the Obama talking points - "The other side has no real issues to talk about like the economy.". But if this were done by the McCain camp, it would be plastered 24/7. I want to scream.

9 ruddoj  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:35:23pm

FYI:

Update: FBI serves search warrant against UT student in Palin case
Becky Simmons 50 mins ago


The FBI is stepping up its investigation into the possibility that a University of Tennessee student hacked into the personal e-mail of Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

A person who identified himself as a witness tells 10 News that agents with the FBI served a federal search warrant at the Fort Sanders residence of David Kernell early Sunday morning. Kernell lives in the Commons apartment complex at 1115 Highland Ave.

David Kernell is the son of Mike Kernell, a Democratic state representative from Memphis.

A Department of Justice spokesperson confirmed there has been "investigatory activity" in Knoxville regarding the Palin case, but she said there are no publicly available search warrants, and no charges have been filed.

A separate law enforcement source confirmed to 10 News that a search warrant was served on Kernell's apartment.

According to the witness, several agents arrived at The Commons of Knoxville around midnight.

They presented their badges upon entering Kernell's apartment, where several students were having a party, and took down their names.

The witness tells us they asked him and those who did not live in the unit to go outside. He believes the investigators took about 1.5 to 2 hours taking pictures of everything inside the apartment.

Witnesses say Kernell and his friends fled the apartment when the FBI agents arrived.

Kernell's three roommates were also subpoenaed, and must testify this week in Chattanooga, according to the witness.

Knoxville blogger and WBIR contributor Terry Frank has posted what she says are images from Kernell's Facebook page.

Numerous web sites say someone going by the name "Rubico" has admitted to hacking Palin's email. According to [Link: www.wired.com,...] "Rubico" made the claim in an internet posting. This person said it was easy to access Palin's yahoo account by using information like her zip code and birthdate. Various people on the internet have quickly associated Rubico with David Kernell.

Previous StoryThe son of state Rep. Mike Kernell has been contacted by authorities in connection with a probe into the hacking of personal e-mail of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Kernell confirmed on Thursday.

Kernell, a Memphis Democrat, said his 20-year-old son David had been contacted by authorities investigating the hacking of Palin's personal email account.

The FBI and the Secret Service started a formal investigation on Wednesday into the hacking.

David Kernell is a student at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville. Mike Kernell said he spoke to his son on Thursday, as he does on a regular basis.

Kernell otherwise declined to comment, or discuss his son's whereabouts and whether he was in custody.

Reports that Palin's e-mail had been hacked bounced across blogs and into the news on Thursday.

[Link: www.wbir.com...]

10 itellu3times  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:35:40pm

re: #6 Intrepid

Can somebody explain to my tired brain the ramifications of this?

Obama is not as pure as the driven snow, after all.

11 jcm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:35:41pm

All your astroturf is belong to us now!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

12 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:36:00pm

The only hope is that Charles will lead the charge again like with MemoGate, he did real damage to Kerry in 2004.

13 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:36:08pm

Looks like someones' on traaaa-ble.

14 BigJohn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:36:36pm

It's too convoluted for the mainstream media to make sense of it. Even if they wanted to. Which they don't.

15 jcm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:36:55pm

re: #6 Intrepid

Can somebody explain to my tired brain the ramifications of this?

If what Jawa alleges, this ad are a violation of FCC laws regarding campaign ads.

16 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:00pm

re: #10 itellu3times

Obama is not as pure as the driven snow, after all.

He was, but he drifted.

17 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:05pm

re: #2 victor_yugo

Send to Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, stat!

(I expect Rush has already picked it up.)

Yes, do send it! O'Reilly would be better running point on this one since this sort of deceit gets him good and angry. He also might have the resources to definitively tie the Obama campaign to this witch's brew of lies.

18 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:14pm

re: #14 BigJohn

It's too convoluted for the mainstream media to make sense of it. Even if they wanted to. Which they don't.

If it were a GOP scandal, they would be overtime making sense of it. We know why they don't.

19 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:26pm

I pointed out something similar today. A meme about creationism and Palin prevalent in the East Coast and EU media that I could not trace. False Flag. A totally fabricated history/story that made her out a retard, pushed by Newsweak, Hollywood and European columnist that wish to save America (from Americans).

20 jcm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:39pm

re: #14 BigJohn

It's too convoluted for the mainstream media to make sense of it. Even if they wanted to. Which they don't.

Won't fit a 30 second sound bit, requires thinking on the part of the reader. Too complicated.

21 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:49pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Yes, do send it! O'Reilly would be better running point on this one since this sort of deceit gets him good and angry. He also might have the resources to definitively tie the Obama campaign to this witch's brew of lies.

We know Hannity will pound away on this - but he's just preaching to the choir. Now if O'Reilly deals with it that's much better, he appeals to swing voters.

22 Rancher  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:37:57pm

re: #9 ruddoj

This is pretty much a one man show right? The kid fries but that's it right?

23 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:38:08pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Yes, do send it! O'Reilly would be better running point on this one since this sort of deceit gets him good and angry. He also might have the resources to definitively tie the Obama campaign to this witch's brew of lies.

Would that make O'Reilly one of Sarah Palin's witch hunters?

/

24 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:38:15pm

re: #20 jcm

Won't fit a 30 second sound bit, requires thinking on the part of the reader. Too complicated.

Why? Just make a 30 second soundbites declaring "Dirty tricks by the Obama campaign".

25 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:38:20pm

/Any bets on seeing this in the MSM?

26 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:39:22pm

re: #19 pat

I pointed out something similar today. A meme about creationism and Palin prevalent in the East Coast and EU media that I could not trace. False Flag. A totally fabricated history/story that made her out a retard, pushed by Newsweak, Hollywood and European columnist that wish to save America (from Americans).

But regardless of that, what amazes me is how many people will just swallow whatever the MSM tells them as gospel truth. No fact checking, no internet research, no nothing. Just believe whatever the talking head at ABC says.

27 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:39:22pm

re: #12 EIDE_Interface

The only hope is that Charles will lead the charge again like with MemoGate, he did real damage to Kerry in 2004.

He'll have plenty of help this time. What can I do to help? I'd love to prove that Obama's grass roots are nothing but smurf turf.

28 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:40:08pm

re: #25 NY Nana

/Any bets on seeing this in the MSM?

I don't make bets when the odds are against me!
/hopefully though it will grow and they will have no choice.

29 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:40:55pm

Dirty deed done dirt cheap.

30 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:41:09pm

re: #4 EIDE_Interface

Looks pretty damning to any person with common sense.

I agree.

However- any person with common sense would realize that Sarah Palin doesn't hate rape victims, she didn't ban books, she wasn't a member of the John Birch Society and so on. These are actually unbelievable accusations to a person with common sense. Therein lies the problem. I'm beginning to think about 50% of the nation doesn't have any common sense.

31 Meremortal  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:41:20pm

re: #25 NY Nana

/Any bets on seeing this in the MSM?

Blogosphere hurricane, MSM null and void......

32 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:41:23pm

Someone get Drudge out of bed.

33 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:02pm

Are any of us really surprised? Let's see how the Obamatons react when they are told that this "ad" does not conform to the campaign finance reform bill that Obama McCain authored! Ooooooh, this will be a fun one to watch! Gotta pop some popcorn and kick back!

It'll hit Rush's show in the morning (and maybe Beck's, I'd imagine). Comments should be interesting!

34 Carolmill  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:04pm

re: #32 x-wing

I sent the link to him

35 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:06pm

re: #25 NY Nana

/Any bets on seeing this in the MSM?

Maybe. If enough people email and spread the story. If the RNC does a press release. If outrage is expressed. Obama is caught in another lie.
He likes to smear women doesn't he. Very curious. He may have a problem with women.

36 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:17pm

re: #30 shibumi

I agree.

However- any person with common sense would realize that Sarah Palin doesn't hate rape victims, she didn't ban books, she wasn't a member of the John Birch Society and so on. These are actually unbelievable accusations to a person with common sense. Therein lies the problem. I'm beginning to think about 50% of the nation doesn't have any common sense.

People with common sense would know how biased the MSM is 10 years ago. That's just par for the course.

37 Rancher  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:27pm

re: #21 EIDE_Interface

Now if O'Reilly deals with it that's much better, he appeals to swing voters.

/'cause he's a pinhead.

/IMHO

38 Irene NYC  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:34pm
We think it is unlikely that one of the largest PR firms in the world would do this for free. That they would pay for video production out of their own pockets, hire a well known voice actress, or that its employees would work together in their free time to help the video go viral.

I'm not an expert, so pretend I'm swinging a dead cat here.

HEY LAWYERRRRRRRSSSSSSS!

Wouldn't the use of professional equipment to produce the ad and the donation of talent by the woman whose voice is used in the ad be considered a "contribution in kind" by the IRS? And wouldn't that have to be declared to the FEC?

Okay, I'm putting the cat down now. (Poor thang.) Thanks.
;)

39 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:46pm

re: #23 victor_yugo

Would that make O'Reilly one of Sarah Palin's witch hunters?

/

No, it'll make him what he needs to be: part of America's truth squad. His appeal is to some extent based on his ability to dig at a story a uncover details the MSM can not or will not find. If he does so here, he may be able to truly cement a reputation as a truth-finder.

40 itellu3times  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:42:58pm

Summarizing for MSM, Rush, and all the ships at sea:
Obama has sockpuppets

of course the MSM doesn't grok sockpuppets anywho, most of them being sockpuppets ("Gramscian whores") for Soros their own bad selves.

41 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:43:20pm

Be sure to Buzz this, gang.

42 runrabbitrun  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:43:24pm

re: #20 jcm

Won't fit a 30 second sound bit, requires thinking on the part of the reader. Too complicated.


Here's what deserves major credit - even if it does not stop them remember: this might throw the Barackatrons off their game and slow down their strategy b/c they'll need to watch their backs before they make their next moves all across the internet. That's how you bring down a confident, fast-moving command and control center, chipping away at the chain of links. (Remember how the Palin picked affected the obamites' cool? They were down 4-6 points within a week.) Let's wait and see how this develops....

43 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:43:27pm

re: #30 shibumi

I agree.

However- any person with common sense would realize that Sarah Palin doesn't hate rape victims, she didn't ban books, she wasn't a member of the John Birch Society and so on. These are actually unbelievable accusations to a person with common sense. Therein lies the problem. I'm beginning to think about 50% of the nation doesn't have any common sense.

Well, when you look at how much average credit card debt people have, how so many people live paycheck to paycheck because they never saved, smoke, don't exercise, etc... Why is it a surprise? All the correct behaviors flow from having sense in one's head, including who you vote for.

44 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:43:54pm

re: #29 Sharmuta

Dirty deed done dirt cheap.

Just for you Sharm..... :)

45 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:44:10pm

re: #37 Rancher

/'cause he's a pinhead.

/IMHO

No, he's a hammer. And if this is true, Obama is the nail.

46 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:44:16pm
47 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:44:41pm

re: #44 Suzette

There's nothing there, Sweetie.

48 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:44:54pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

No, he's a hammer. And if this is true, Obama is the nail.

Nobody wants O'Reilly on their case.

49 Rancher  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:45:29pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

I still like him, usually, hammer away!

50 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:45:36pm
51 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:45:44pm

To those here who send links to radio people and Glenn Beck. They will not check your link. You must copy and send the relevant text, like Charles does with his link feature. And start local then work up. Melanie Morgan and people like her can carry the water.

52 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:46:26pm
53 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:46:28pm

re: #47 Sharmuta

I know still trying to get this damn new laptop to work right! :(

54 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:46:38pm

re: #48 EIDE_Interface

Nobody wants O'Reilly on their case.

For good reason. Say what you want about him, O'Reilly is a bulldog. Once sinks his teeth into a story, he doesn't let go till he tears out a fair bit of truth.

55 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:46:45pm

If (big if here) talk radio picks this up, it probably wouldn't be particularly difficult for someone to track the voice over person down.

Just saying. The story isn't over yet.

56 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:47:12pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

For good reason. Say what you want about him, O'Reilly is a bulldog. Once sinks his teeth into a story, he doesn't let go till he tears out a fair bit of truth.

He's one of the few good investigative journalists left in the media.

57 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:47:22pm

What do you expect from a man (Axelrod) behind R. Daley's campaign dismissing major scandals in which he was involved?

For Daley, "there is no doubt the politics has become a little more complicated of late," Axelrod conceded. "But the reality remains that his is a record of enormous achievement in the city, and the city is a shining example in many ways for the entire country and world. People value his leadership, and that hasn't changed."

[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]

Axelrod In Defense of Corruption 2
[Link: jeffberkowitz.blogspot.com...]

58 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:47:36pm

re: #55 shibumi

If (big if here) talk radio picks this up, it probably wouldn't be particularly difficult for someone to track the voice over person down.

Just saying. The story isn't over yet.

We'll see how fast Rush picks it up.

59 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:48:19pm

To be honest this is my personal song to Barry from me.....

60 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:48:30pm

re: #26 EIDE_Interface

But regardless of that, what amazes me is how many people will just swallow whatever the MSM tells them as gospel truth. No fact checking, no internet research, no nothing. Just believe whatever the talking head at ABC says.

I was overhearing the conversation of three men in their late fifties yesterday at an outside gathering. They were talking about Obama and, even though he's not who they'd pick for POTUS, he's much better than McCain...they were parroting the "four more years of Bush" BS, plus they really think Obama is BETTER for the economy and for foreign relations! Just floored me! I asked them if they owned guns, they all said "yes", and asked if they owned old cars, they all said "yes". Want to have your taxes doubled? "Oh, no, we don't want that!" I said "Well, your friend Obama will take your guns, ban your cars, and tax you until you bleed! Do you really want him?"

They didn't give much of an answer to that, and the conversation quickly changed.

61 mac6443  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:48:46pm

Look smook...Sounds just like something out of a liberal play book.
See it as breaking news on any local affiliate of the big three or cheap
news companies like CNN or MSNBC, please, that is as big a pipe dream
as us actually drilling for oil as long as there is a Doemocratic controled
house and Senate.

So everyone ,just bend at the waist and place head in the sand. We, here at LGF can and do think for ourselves but most of this that does not seem to fit
the populists notion of what is is important to them so in the sand the head does.

62 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:49:14pm

re: #52 Racer X

Dirty Deeds Done With Sheep!

"976-BAAA - that kind of love's a crime"

ROFLMAO!

63 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:49:18pm

I get my voting tips from Matt Damon.

64 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:49:29pm
* This same voice-over artist has worked extensively with David Axelrod’s firm, which has a history of engaging in phony grassroots efforts, otherwise known as “astroturfing.”

* David Axelrod is Barack Obama’s chief media strategist.

* The same voice-over artist has worked directly for the Barack Obama campaign.

To me- this is pretty damning. I'm sure it's also racist for Rusty to point it out.

/

65 Crusty  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:50:21pm

This picture suddenly becomes more relevant:

Bitch Stole My Election!

66 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:50:27pm

re: #63 pat

I get my voting tips from Matt Damon.

You vote for whoever he opposes?

67 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:50:32pm

re: #58 EIDE_Interface

We'll see how fast Rush picks it up.

We'll see. At this point, the story is a bit complicated, and seems to be more Mark Levin-ish. But I don't know. I hope Rush surprises me!

68 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:50:51pm

What a great report from Dr. Rusty.

I'm sending this to everyone I know.

69 mattm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:51:27pm

Haven't read the whole thing, but it looks damaging to BHO.

70 Price_of_Peace  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:51:33pm

re: #26 EIDE_Interface

But regardless of that, what amazes me is how many people will just swallow whatever the MSM tells them as gospel truth. No fact checking, no internet research, no nothing. Just believe whatever the talking head at ABC says.

My eighty year old mother is one of those that accept whatever the MSM preach to her. If I try to point out facts, she basically covers her ears and chants "nah, nah, nah, nah...... I usually give up and hope she doesn't feel up to voting.

71 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:51:43pm

Just how STUPID do you have to be to use your real name when conducting nefarious activity on the internet?

72 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:51:46pm

re: #66 victor_yugo

You vote for whoever he opposes?

.........yes

73 ggt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:51:47pm

I just finished reading it and it is a certainly an impressive bit of research. Good questions have been asked --think we'll ever learn the answers?

74 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:51:49pm

Just a note to Charles - the Rating # doesn't always update right away after clicking the +/-. It does if you double-click to see the details.

75 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:52:17pm

re: #70 Price_of_Peace

My eighty year old mother is one of those that accept whatever the MSM preach to her. If I try to point out facts, she basically covers her ears and chants "nah, nah, nah, nah...... I usually give up and hope she doesn't feel up to voting.

ditto, MIL

76 mattm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:52:20pm

re: #71 Opilio

Just how STUPID do you have to be to use your real name when conducting nefarious activity on the internet?

Stupid enough to vote Obama.

77 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:52:43pm

re: #66 victor_yugo

You vote for whoever he opposes?

I vote for the person who makes Barbara Streisand and/or Rosie O'Donnell become psychotically deranged. Works every single time!

/sometimes hard to tell with Rosie though, she's kind of insane all the time.

78 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:52:56pm

re: #70 Price_of_Peace

My eighty year old mother is one of those that accept whatever the MSM preach to her. If I try to point out facts, she basically covers her ears and chants "nah, nah, nah, nah...... I usually give up and hope she doesn't feel up to voting.

Well her generation was brought up with the notion that the MSM talking heads were to be respected and believed. Fact-checking is for a newer generation that came of age in the 1970s Watergate era.

79 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:53:01pm

OK. Phone lines are tapped and the black helicopters have scrambled. We'll see how the Winner family reacts.

80 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:53:21pm

so nothing really concrete?

81 runrabbitrun  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:53:28pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

To me- this is pretty damning. I'm sure it's also racist for Rusty to point it out.

/


If confirmation of these ties hobbles or brings down Axelrod in any active capacity, including hampering his - uhm, outreach efforts, the campaign will really, really suffer these last few weeks.

82 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:53:43pm

re: #63 pat

I get my voting tips from Matt Damon.

LOL! Hey Pat! :)

83 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:53:54pm
84 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:54:06pm

re: #57 merrytexas

What do you expect from a man (Axelrod) behind R. Daley's campaign dismissing major scandals in which he was involved?

For Daley, "there is no doubt the politics has become a little more complicated of late," Axelrod conceded. "But the reality remains that his is a record of enormous achievement in the city, and the city is a shining example in many ways for the entire country and world. People value his leadership, and that hasn't changed."

[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]

Axelrod In Defense of Corruption 2
[Link: jeffberkowitz.blogspot.com...]

Good catch. To answer ggt post in the last thread, I think we can now say that Axelrod is Obama's Billy Flynn. Only in this case, it'll be the mouthpiece's cleverness that sends the client to jail.

85 Russkilitlover  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:54:15pm

re: #10 itellu3times

Obama is not as pure as the driven snow, after all.

No fucking shit!

86 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:54:21pm

re: #71 Opilio

Just how STUPID do you have to be to use your real name when conducting nefarious activity on the internet?

They underestimate the net savviness of our bloggers. You think they would have learned from Rathergate, but I guess they really are that stupid.

87 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:54:53pm

re: #75 pat

My MIL is a hardcore lefty. Votes Jackass right down the ballot.

And yet, she bitches about gas prices, high taxes. etc...

88 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:55:00pm

re: #72 pat

.........yes

Smart!

89 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:55:14pm

re: #85 Russkilitlover

You might want to turn off your email.

90 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:55:19pm

Sorry for the repost (edited) from two threads over, but for those of you who DON'T think much will come of this:
Rusty reaches clear cut conclussions AFTER providing the evidence with which to support them.
Regardless of the violation (I believe) of the Federal Election Laws, the MSM surely do understand "Dirty Tricks" and they'll understand that David Axelrod who IS Obama's chief Media Strategist had Winner & Associates promulgate and produce a "YouTube" Video, allegedly connecting Sarah Palin to - at least - the Alaskan Seperatist Party, that said PR Firm hired a well known actor to do the "amatuer voice over" and tried to pass it off as an amatuer's work without putting on the "I'm Barrack Obama and I approve of this Ad" which is required when an ad is prepared by a political campaign - that Winner & Associates tried to pass this off as an amateur YouTube video seems completely clear, hence the Dirty Trick.It took me less than 5 minutes to type this and will probably take any semi-literate person less than a minute to read and understand that the Obama campaign did something illegal and unethical: a Dirty Trick.
And with the blogsphere, especially Jawa and LGF pushing this story, I have to agree with Rusty that this isn't the ONLY TIME that the OBAMA Campaign has pulled DIRTY TRICKS - which the MSM didn't catch but will have to report upon, especially if Jawa and LGF keep pushing.

91 Irene NYC  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:55:25pm

This is a beginning that needed to be made to counter the MSM. It is an outrage that the NYT, WaPo, LATimes, etc. can print lie after lie after lie and then - whoops! - correct themselves.

People are confused, and rightly so. What's true, what's not! And these ads on the internet just ad to the confusion.

Great job Rusty et. al.

Way to go.

92 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:55:45pm

re: #87 6pat6

My MIL is a hardcore lefty. Votes Jackass right down the ballot.

And yet, she bitches about gas prices, high taxes. etc...

You see I understand why older generations don't even want to spend the energy fact-checking. What really gets my gander are people under 30 who swallow the MSM lies. What the hell is their excuse? They were brought up with "question everything", but the don't.

93 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:55:55pm

re: #70 Price_of_Peace

My eighty year old mother is one of those that accept whatever the MSM preach to her. If I try to point out facts, she basically covers her ears and chants "nah, nah, nah, nah...... I usually give up and hope she doesn't feel up to voting.

Have you tried introducing her to the nice people on Fox News? Or started sending her articles from the Wall Street Journal? If she can't stomach Rush, how about Dennis Praeger? If you can't get her to believe the media lies, perhaps you can expose her to media with a different point of view.

94 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:56:42pm

re: #74 EIDE_Interface

Just a note to Charles - the Rating # doesn't always update right away after clicking the +/-. It does if you double-click to see the details.

Yeah- I'm having that issue too, Charles.

95 dgax65  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:56:43pm

Unfortunately, this will go nowhere. The MSM will show no interest in reporting this. Either it will be ignored, or they will find some inconsequential misdeed from the McCain side and claim that both parties are running dirty campaigns. They know the stakes and nobody in the news media want to be known as the "reporter who derailed Obama's chances for the presidency." The only positive result of this will be the further deterioration of the media's standing with the general public.

Go ahead A-holes; bury this like you buried all the other negative stories about Obama. I always get a good chuckle when I see the NYT, WaPo or the networks announcing more layoffs.

96 jaunte  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:57:02pm

re: #90 realwest

'Obama Campaign Caught Ridin' Dirty."

97 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:57:16pm

re: #92 EIDE_Interface

You see I understand why older generations don't even want to spend the energy fact-checking. What really gets my gander are people under 30 who swallow the MSM lies. What the hell is their excuse? They were brought up with "question everything", but the don't.

No, they were brought up with "question everything but us," that is, their self-proclaimed betters in the education system.

98 Irene NYC  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:57:17pm

PIMF ad=add

99 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:57:53pm

re: #95 dgax65

Unfortunately, this will go nowhere. The MSM will show no interest in reporting this. Either it will be ignored, or they will find some inconsequential misdeed from the McCain side and claim that both parties are running dirty campaigns. They know the stakes and nobody in the news media want to be known as the "reporter who derailed Obama's chances for the presidency." The only positive result of this will be the further deterioration of the media's standing with the general public.

Go ahead A-holes; bury this like you buried all the other negative stories about Obama. I always get a good chuckle when I see the NYT, WaPo or the networks announcing more layoffs.

Our republic can't continue with the 4th estate not doing their basic function.

100 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:12pm

re: #97 victor_yugo

No, they were brought up with "question everything but us," that is, their self-proclaimed betters in the education system.

And, they have great self-esteem, to boot!

101 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:23pm

re: #95 dgax65
With respect, please read my #90 above.

102 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:31pm

re: #82 Suzette

LOL! Hey Pat! :)

heh,heh

103 RTLM  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:49pm

Kos had a hand in this meme.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

104 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:50pm

re: #95 dgax65

Unfortunately, this will go nowhere. The MSM will show no interest in reporting this. Either it will be ignored, or they will find some inconsequential misdeed from the McCain side and claim that both parties are running dirty campaigns. They know the stakes and nobody in the news media want to be known as the "reporter who derailed Obama's chances for the presidency." The only positive result of this will be the further deterioration of the media's standing with the general public.

Go ahead A-holes; bury this like you buried all the other negative stories about Obama. I always get a good chuckle when I see the NYT, WaPo or the networks announcing more layoffs.

The MSM isn't the only game in town anymore. Get this on Fox and move the story forward a bit and they'll have to cover it. And then they can claim whatever they want, Axelrod will still likely end up under the bus.

105 ggt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:52pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

I asked a question? Oh, yeah, Richard Gere.

ah, Axelrod --I am beginning to hear the music . . . .

106 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:58:56pm

re: #90 realwest


And with the blogsphere, especially Jawa and LGF pushing this story, I have to agree with Rusty that this isn't the ONLY TIME that the OBAMA Campaign has pulled DIRTY TRICKS - which the MSM didn't catch but will have to report upon, especially if Jawa and LGF keep pushing.

The MSM would not, could not, EVER catch an Obama "dirty trick" as they are collective sporting a blind eye.

107 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:59:21pm

Don't know if this has been posted but Oblahma is giving up & pulling staff from North Dakota and shifting them to Minnesota and Wisconsin where the races are tight.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

108 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:59:26pm

Did anyone see this Obama car commercial ?

109 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:59:30pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

Axelrod will still likely end up under the bus.

No pun intended, of course!

110 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:59:37pm

re: #95 dgax65

Unfortunately, this will go nowhere. The MSM will show no interest in reporting this. Either it will be ignored, or they will find some inconsequential misdeed from the McCain side and claim that both parties are running dirty campaigns. They know the stakes and nobody in the news media want to be known as the "reporter who derailed Obama's chances for the presidency." The only positive result of this will be the further deterioration of the media's standing with the general public.

Go ahead A-holes; bury this like you buried all the other negative stories about Obama. I always get a good chuckle when I see the NYT, WaPo or the networks announcing more layoffs.

I hate to agree, but I do. Obama could be caught in bed with a dead girl or a live little boy, and the MSM would not blink. They DO NOT care about dirty tricks from Democrats, since they are aiding them in those very actions. Sad, but true.

/at least I still have my cynicism. I'll miss it after Obama sends me to the re-education camp.

111 neocon hippie  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:59:49pm

re: #91 Irene NYC

Naturally the writer has to accuse McCain of the same thing but this is a flying pig moment in tomorrow's WaPo:


Closing the Whopper Gap

112 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 9:59:53pm

re: #106 kawfytawk

The MSM would not, could not, EVER catch an Obama "dirty trick" as they are collective sporting a blind eye.

collective = collectively...ugh

113 MadJadBad  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:00:00pm

Astroturfing at Digg...
I knew something was up with Digg. They have just been deluged with anti McCain/Palin stories on the front page for the past month. It has gotten so bad that when a non-political story makes the front page, you see comments that people are happy that it is not about Sarah Palin. I've been a Digg reader for a couple of years and I usually just read the Tech and Science categories, but since the presidential campaigns began, I've been checking out all the popular stories. The pro-Obama stories were common but the very day that Palin was announced as the VP choice there was a huge shift to anti-Palin stories. I became suspicious that these stories were being astroturfed. There was a definite shift in the type and source of the front page stories and I'm not the only one who has noticed. There are a lot of comments where people are bitching about Digg really going downhill in the past 9 months. If you search their archives, you can find stories about companies that guarantee your story will get to the front page for a price. Plus, in the past month there has been a crackdown on users digging a bunch of stories in a short period of time. Too short of a time between diggs for the person to have actually read the stories. So the folks that run Digg have noticed something going on at their own site.
Does anyone have any suggestions how this could be investigated further?

114 jcm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:00:28pm

re: #90 realwest

I emailed the link to Rush, Hannity, Levin and our local talk radio.

115 Russkilitlover  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:00:32pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

How? I'm no "clicked" on?

116 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:00:36pm

If the stock market takes a crap tomorrow,this will not go anywhere. But if it doesn't take a crap.....

117 Irene NYC  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:00:49pm

Even if the MSM doesn't pick this up, even if the Obama campaign denies any connection whatsoever, the fact remains that the Winners (ha!) are gonna be might pissed. As will be David Axelrod.

They probably thought they could get away with it and it honestly sounds like they didn't think they could get caught on the internet (Daddy Winner, after all, has been working since at least the late 1950's). Wrong, wrong, wrong. And Axelrod will be mightily pissed because the Winners left a trail leading back to him - meaning that they're stupider than he thought.

Win- Win all the way. For McCain.

118 neocon hippie  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:01:14pm

Hugh Hewitt and Dennis Prager would definitely pick up on this.

119 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:01:19pm

Buzz it up people. We are at 9 buzz ups. Lets send it over the top.

120 pianobuff  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:01:32pm

I read the Jawa report fast, but it looks like there is a "winner and Associates" office in Anchorage, Alaska.

121 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:01:46pm

An observation outside of this particular story:

If the GOP hadn't been so corrupt over the last 14 years since gaining power in 1994, it would not be in this position. It wouldn't have nominated GW Bush in the first place, McCain was the better choice back then. I don't forget Bush's dirty tricks in South Carolina. The proof I guess is that dirty tricks win against those who aren't willing to engage in them. This is the 2nd time that McCain is being slimed and he doesn't have the balls to do the same back.

122 Charles  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:01:49pm

re: #115 Russkilitlover

How? I'm no "clicked" on?

You've put your email address on the line for your web site. I recommend going to 'My Account' and removing that.

123 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:02:09pm

re: #108 NY Nana

Every night on a sports show we have here in DFW. :(

124 mattm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:02:40pm

re: #97 victor_yugo

Yep. I had a lefty prof. who I questioned. Tod me not to question people telling the truth.

125 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:02:54pm

re: #109 6pat6

No pun intended, of course!

No pun intended, but the pun makes it even better. :)

126 Charles  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:03:05pm

If you're having trouble with ratings, reload the page...

127 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:03:22pm

re: #124 mattm

Yep. I had a lefty prof. who I questioned. Tod me not to question people telling the truth.

Ah, so Orwellian. That man was a fucking prophet.

128 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:03:23pm

re: #110 shibumi

I hate to agree, but I do. Obama could be caught in bed with a dead girl or a live little boy, and the MSM would not blink.

Or any of a variety of domesticated animals, too.

129 ggt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:03:32pm

Regardless of her acomplishments or her qualificatins, what has the left so pissed-off is that they stand to lose this election on what they see is nothing but the sex appeal of Sarah Palin. They are suppossed to be the "owners" of sex appeal.

130 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:03:38pm

re: #100 6pat6
And

re: #97 victor_yugo

No, they were brought up with "question everything but us," that is, their self-proclaimed betters in the education system.

And, they have great self-esteem, to boot!

they have (with the exception of the "Boomer Generation" that served in uniform during the Vietnam War Era and their age contemporaries who supported them) have absolutely no basis upon which to have that self-esteem - unless you count blowing up buildings and murdering people a la Billy Ayers and his ever so charming wife, Bernadine Dohrn and their followers as a reason for having "self-esteem".

131 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:03:45pm

re: #113 MadJadBad

Astroturfing at Digg...
Does anyone have any suggestions how this could be investigated further?


I never go to Digg anymore. They have been absorbed by the Borg.

132 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:04:14pm

re: #107 merrytexas

Don't know if this has been posted but Oblahma is giving up & pulling staff from North Dakota and shifting them to Minnesota and Wisconsin where the races are tight.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

North Dakota, 3 electoral votes he's not going to get. Minnesota and Wisconsin, 20 electoral votes he can't afford to lose. Zero's lead in both states has dwindled from 8+ to about 2 during the last 5 weeks.

133 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:04:47pm

re: #124 mattm

Yep. I had a lefty prof. who I questioned. Tod me not to question people telling the truth.

I had several of those professors.

I only had one of them knock my grade down for it.

But that was near on 20 years ago.

134 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:04:53pm

re: #123 merrytexas

Could you imagine him as a used car salesman? I had never thought of it before, but now? Sleazy enough.

135 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:05:24pm

re: #111 neocon hippie

Naturally the writer has to accuse McCain of the same thing but this is a flying pig moment in tomorrow's WaPo:


Closing the Whopper Gap

Flying pig indeed. Well, it is nice to see the WaPo giving BHO the 'what for'. They don't do it enough.

136 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:05:26pm

re: #130 realwest

He was talking about the "under 30s", not the Nam generation boomers.

137 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:05:31pm

re: #133 Syrah

I had several of those professors.

I only had one of them knock my grade down for it.

But that was near on 20 years ago.

It has gotten worse. Students have to not only deal with lefty professors, but most of their classmates are against them too.

138 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:05:53pm

re: #134 NY Nana

LOL He is perfect for a used car salesman.

139 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:05:53pm

re: #103 RTLM

Kos, DU, others- Rusty nailed them.

140 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:06:11pm

re: #128 6pat6

Or any of a variety of domesticated animals, too.

"Obama has finally broken the white obsessional against child/adult sex." Newsweak

141 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:06:49pm

re: #127 EIDE_Interface

Ah, so Orwellian. That man was a fucking prophet.

Prophet Mohamed this is. "I'm right, and questioning me is doubting the truth".

142 shibumi  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:06:51pm

re: #128 6pat6

Or any of a variety of domesticated animals, too.

That would be celebrated as "diversity."

/wish I was being sarcastic.

143 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:06:52pm

re: #124 mattm

Yep. I had a lefty prof. who I questioned. Tod me not to question people telling the truth.

Absolute retort:

"Oh yeah, question authority, except for you."

144 Irene NYC  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:06:53pm

re: #139 Sharmuta

Oh yeah. Kos and DU look like they're nutz - which of course they are.
;)

145 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:07:06pm

re: #28 Suzette

I don't make bets when the odds are against me!

/hopefully though it will grow and they will have no choice.

Same here!

146 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:07:09pm

re: #134 NY Nana

Could you imagine him as a used car salesman? I had never thought of it before, but now? Sleazy enough.

B-HO epitomizes the worst stereotypes of lawyers, used-car salesmen, and general low-life scum...

That's his good points...

147 mattm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:07:12pm

re: #133 Syrah

I had several of those professors.

I only had one of them knock my grade down for it.

But that was near on 20 years ago.

We only had mid term and two papers. I suspect he may have knocked the grade down on the second paper.

148 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:07:20pm

re: #132 Opilio

North Dakota, 3 electoral votes he's not going to get. Minnesota and Wisconsin, 20 electoral votes he can't afford to lose. Zero's lead in both states has dwindled from 8+ to about 2 during the last 5 weeks.

Sloooooowly I turned.......
Step by step....
Inch by inch....

149 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:07:46pm

The left's goal - "Picture a boot stomping on the face of decent folks forever".

150 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:07:49pm

re: #142 shibumi

That would be celebrated as "diversity."

That's soooo baaaaad!

151 Abu Maven  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:10pm

Careful here. I haven't read through the comments yet, but let me say something: there is no convincing evidence that the Obama campaign authorized this. It would not be surprising in the least if members of a PR firm -- who routinely engage in what is called "stealth marketing" on behalf of their clients -- would take it upon themselves to do the same for Obama, without any authorization from the campaign. I don't see any compelling evidence that suggests the Obama campaign was behind this.

Keep investigating by all means, but let's not go overboard just yet and overextend ourselves in a Kos-like fashion.

152 itellu3times  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:10pm

re: #148 Catttt

Sloooooowly I turned.......
Step by step....
Inch by inch....

Obama Falls?

153 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:12pm

but, but, but.... McCain still lied when he said the jet sold on Ebay!

154 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:14pm

Obama's handlers are creepy people. They want your wealth.

155 mattm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:15pm

re: #143 victor_yugo

Absolute retort:

"Oh yeah, question authority, except for you."

I will have to remember that.

156 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:30pm

re: #138 Pvt Bin Jammin

Would you buy a used car from him? ;) Bet you wouldn't...too smart.

157 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:51pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

Careful here. I haven't read through the comments yet, but let me say something: there is no convincing evidence that the Obama campaign authorized this. It would not be surprising in the least if members of a PR firm -- who routinely engage in what is called "stealth marketing" on behalf of their clients -- would take it upon themselves to do the same for Obama, without any authorization from the campaign. I don't see any compelling evidence that suggests the Obama campaign was behind this.

Keep investigating by all means, but let's not go overboard just yet and overextend ourselves in a Kos-like fashion.

Even though the evidence strongly points to Obama? It's not like there is no evidence here.

158 Nightwatch  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:08:54pm

re: #42 runrabbitrun

There are other elements at work here, just off the top of my head (MERLOT ENHANCED) the prime # ACORN needs MAJOR focus in the next 2 weeks MAX! Time to shine the xenon mega bulb on this barely covert op of the DNC. They have placed themselves VERY heavy in key battle states and we cannot, REPEAT, cannot let them work anywhere under the radar. Not that the MSM would give them any even REMOTELY adverse play. It is up to the righteous NEW MEDIA to keep them running and therefore un-focused.

BUGLE CALL!

159 talon_262  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:09:05pm

re: #143 victor_yugo

It's a political maxim as old as the hills: Do as I say, not as I do.

The Democrats practice that in spades...

160 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:09:10pm

re: #152 itellu3times

Obama Falls?

Over the falls, under the bus. It does matter to me as long as he loses.

161 JacksonTn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:09:13pm

I am sure most in the media know someone who knows someone who would recognize the voice on the video. But, who among them would ever come out and say anything that would help to connect Axelrod to this....but maybe someone will stand up.

Speaking of O'Reilly, do you think he will address the hacking of his site on his show? I would think it may be kinda hard for him to ask people to go register at his site now since it was hacked and drawing attention to it would make people think twice.

I hope the McCain campaign takes this and runs with it.

162 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:09:19pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

Except for the fact this is like the 10th time........in 2 days.

163 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:09:28pm

re: #152 itellu3times

Obama Falls?

OBAMA Falls!

Slowwwwwwly I turned......

Step
by
step....

Inch - - - - by inch . . . .

164 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:02pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

Yes, it's called "donation in kind," and it must be reported to the FEC, where it goes into public record.

If it is not reported to the FEC, it's criminal.

165 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:09pm

re: #162 pat

Except for the fact this is like the 10th time........in 2 days.

The left expects us to just bend over and take it.

166 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:20pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

I don't see any compelling evidence that suggests the Obama campaign was behind this.

What's wrong with the "guilt-by-association" game? Hell, the Lefties pull that shit all the time! I'd bet, gauging by the "six degrees of separation" method, there is not more than, oh, say...two.

167 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:32pm

re: #137 EIDE_Interface

It has gotten worse. Students have to not only deal with lefty professors, but most of their classmates are against them too.

Nearly all of my classmates were against me then too. A few made their opinions crystal clear. But, and most importantly, some took up the standard with me. Had I sat there like a stone and said nothing, they would likely have said nothing also. It is difficult for many people to stand up first. It is easy for me.

I have not given up the city yet. There are still a few good people left to man the battlements with me.

168 Arbalest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:35pm

I wonder if the New York Post and Chicago Sun Times will run with the Axlerod/Winner/Obama story.

The expressed opinion on Ace last night was that this story is a mid-level story, but after reading the Jawa Report, I think it's bigger.

At a minimum, the Jawa article casts doubt on the believe-ability of anything produced by 527s and any Democratic supporter.

Specifically, anything claimed by a Democratic operative that's NOT officially attached to the Obama campaign is now more likely to be not telling the truth (whether the operative knows it or not).

Axelrod's previous campaign effort in Illinois is a prime example.

All claims made by the Obama campaign must now be double-checked. Even the real campaign workers may not have correct information, and not even know it.

In a larger sense, does anyone want Axelrod, either of the Winners (there's a joke here somewhere), or any of their associates in power?

Few people like being lied to, and Axelrod's astroturfing is exactly that.

Speaking of astroturfing, Axelrod, and friends, should I ask:

1. Does the Candidate, Barak Hussein Obama, have true, correct and complete information?

2. If elected, can BHO trust his advisers?

3. If elected, can we, the American People, trust BHO?

America, we have a problem ......

Meanwhile, the MSM seems to have been caught flatfooted. It's already Monday on the East Coast, and the NYT, WaPo, NBC, ABC, CBS have .......... ?

This looks a major surprise, and it isn't even October yet.

169 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:54pm

re: #144 Irene NYC

They're the "cheap" part of the dirty deed. Little useful idiots were willing to spread this for free.

170 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:10:54pm

re: #106 kawfytawk
I agree - that's why it's SO IMPORTANT that the blogshpehre and especially Jawa and LGF keep pushing; they didn't want to report on Rathergate either, but Charles kept pushing and pushing until they finally had NO CHOICE but to report on it.
This DIRTY TRICK by Axelrod and Winner & Associates IS somewhat like Rathergate: they created a story, made out of wholecloth, then managed to get it "published" as an "amatuer" video which they then posted on YouTube as an amateur video - all to deceive the public (and not, coincidentally violtate Federal Election Law) into voting for someone else.
That's exactly what Mary Mapes and Dan Rather did with the TANG Memos "story" but Charles, LGF and other blogs kept PUSHING AND PUSHING AND PUSHING and the MSM had NO CHOICE but to publish it.
I think a GREAT place to start would be to send a link to Rusty's piece to Hillary Clinton.

171 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:11:33pm

re: #161 JacksonTn

O'Reilly is a silly coward. As stupid as Brian Williams, just has taken a different route. He would have given Obama oral sex to get him on his show, then did.

172 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:11:36pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

I don't think Rusty went off----half-cocked. Not his style.
/there is more to this...and I would not be surprised that this does
lead to Obama.

173 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:11:41pm

re: #161 JacksonTn

I am sure most in the media know someone who knows someone who would recognize the voice on the video. But, who among them would ever come out and say anything that would help to connect Axelrod to this....but maybe someone will stand up.

Speaking of O'Reilly, do you think he will address the hacking of his site on his show? I would think it may be kinda hard for him to ask people to go register at his site now since it was hacked and drawing attention to it would make people think twice.

I hope the McCain campaign takes this and runs with it.

Yes, he'll address it. It's the kind thing that pisses him off. And when he's pissed, whoever got him that way had better watch out. I sense a liberal hacker about to do the frog march in bracelets.

174 MadJadBad  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:11:45pm

re: #26 EIDE_Interface

But regardless of that, what amazes me is how many people will just swallow whatever the MSM tells them as gospel truth. No fact checking, no internet research, no nothing. Just believe whatever the talking head at ABC says.

Don't discount crappy education also.
Go to any news aggregator site that allows user comments and you would be amazed by how many people believe that the federal budget is controlled by the president. The general lack of knowledge about the basics of how the government works is astounding, and scary.

175 talon_262  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:11:52pm

re: #163 Catttt

OBAMA Falls!

Slowwwwwwly I turned......

Step
by
step....

Inch - - - - by inch . . . .

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the Days of Our Lives...

;-)

176 Irene NYC  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:11:55pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

Well Rusty is pretty up front about that (there being no direct link with Obama). But you know what they say, the coverup is worse than the crime. It's the sneakiness and dishonesty that'll play badly. Obama, after all, was supposed to usher in a new, squeaky clean era of politics. If his supporters act this way it'll reflect terribly on him and he'll have to distance himself from all these players.

And frankly, there's a large part of America that's never been exposed to the toxic waste dumps known as dKos amd DU. Shocker there too.

177 SpartanWoman  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:12:00pm

OT: watching the Palin speech in Florida...Reagan in a skirt.

178 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:12:26pm

re: #158 Nightwatch

There are other elements at work here, just off the top of my head (MERLOT ENHANCED) the prime # ACORN needs MAJOR focus in the next 2 weeks MAX! Time to shine the xenon mega bulb on this barely covert op of the DNC. They have placed themselves VERY heavy in key battle states and we cannot, REPEAT, cannot let them work anywhere under the radar. Not that the MSM would give them any even REMOTELY adverse play. It is up to the righteous NEW MEDIA to keep them running and therefore un-focused.

BUGLE CALL!

Excellent point. This type of crap is being pushed by those who seriously want Obama elected. We must look very closely at what else is going on.

This could be the tip of the iceberg.

179 Carolmill  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:12:34pm

This came out on Digg about an hour ago....

McCain's Presidential Campaign Just Violated Finance Laws?
narcosphere.narconews.com — Reporter Bill Conroy (who recently uncovered the Palin tanning narcosphere.narconews.com — Reporter Bill Conroy (who recently uncovered the Palin tanning bed story) found that McCain has been billing his campaign for air tickets to, and luxury spas in, Southeast Asia. Conroy's article extensively documents the expenditures. FEC regulations prohibit a candidate from paying for personal travel expenses.More… (US Elections 2008)

180 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:12:48pm

re: #147 mattm

We only had mid term and two papers. I suspect he may have knocked the grade down on the second paper.

It may not feel like it to you now, but it was worth it.

There is a price to being a leader. There are also unlooked for rewards.

181 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:12:57pm

re: #146 6pat6

B-HO epitomizes the worst stereotypes of lawyers, used-car salesmen, and general low-life scum...

That's his good points...

Actually, you are being too kind. And if we have already seen so much about him to scare us all, can you only imagine what we do not know?

I just pray it comes out before the election.

BTW, one of my sons is a lawyer, who is the exact opposite of Hussein.

182 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:13:01pm

re: #167 Syrah

Nearly all of my classmates were against me then too. A few made their opinions crystal clear. But, and most importantly, some took up the standard with me. Had I sat there like a stone and said nothing, they would likely have said nothing also. It is difficult for many people to stand up first. It is easy for me.

I have not given up the city yet. There are still a few good people left to man the battlements with me.

I think his basic point is that the left seeks to so demoralize the populace, that they don't even have the will to man the battlements anymore.

183 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:13:14pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

Careful here. I haven't read through the comments yet, but let me say something: there is no convincing evidence that the Obama campaign authorized this. It would not be surprising in the least if members of a PR firm -- who routinely engage in what is called "stealth marketing" on behalf of their clients -- would take it upon themselves to do the same for Obama, without any authorization from the campaign. I don't see any compelling evidence that suggests the Obama campaign was behind this.

Keep investigating by all means, but let's not go overboard just yet and overextend ourselves in a Kos-like fashion.

Like the man said... people close to Axelrod seem to just sort of do things for him...

184 good2geaux  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:13:26pm

guaranteed not to get any MSM attention

185 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:13:39pm

re: #110 shibumi
Sorry to disagree with you but if you see my #170 you'll know that the MSM didn't want to get involved in Rathergate either, but Charles and others just pushed them and pushed them until they HAD to report it.

186 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:14:02pm

re: #174 MadJadBad

Don't discount crappy education also.
Go to any news aggregator site that allows user comments and you would be amazed by how many people believe that the federal budget is controlled by the president. The general lack of knowledge about the basics of how the government works is astounding, and scary.

Yeah there is a general lack of education on the structure of government. But those people sure are experts on American Idol.

187 Metal Man  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:14:13pm

re: #108 NY Nana

Did anyone see this Obama car commercial ?


This car commercial is what came to mind when I read that.

188 A Balrog of Morgoth  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:14:38pm

Alright. I will be the turd in the punchbowl.

Unless there is more to come, i.e. the unanswered questions about funding getting answered and proving a connection to Teleprompter Jesus's campaign or some 527, you know what we have here?

Not much. Remember also that this would be a Democrat scandal, with the attendant virtually unattainable standards of proof.

Nonetheless, it is excellent work, and I hope the those involved can push forward.

189 sultan_knish  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:14:44pm

It's the part of the pattern of how the Obama campaign have tried to make their attack videos go viral, all the way back to the original Big Brother attack video against Hillary

190 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:14:55pm

In case no one mentioned it, one of eswinner's subscribers on youtube is

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

cnwinner - Chuck N. Winner? Ya think?

/of course, it could be a nefarious plot by the Winners' arch-enemies.

191 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:15:23pm

re: #181 NY Nana

Like I said, stereotypes...I have a couple of good friends that either sell cars or practice law. Two of the very few that are honest in their chosen professions.

192 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:15:30pm

re: #188 A Balrog of Morgoth

Alright. I will be the turd in the punchbowl.

Unless there is more to come, i.e. the unanswered questions about funding getting answered and proving a connection to Teleprompter Jesus's campaign or some 527, you know what we have here?

Not much. Remember also that this would be a Democrat scandal, with the attendant virtually unattainable standards of proof.

Nonetheless, it is excellent work, and I hope the those involved can push forward.

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but the media uses a much lower standard of proof for GOP scandals. Since the MSM has changed the rules of the game, you have to play.

193 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:15:35pm

re: #111 neocon hippie
Whoa, great post and link, thank you!

194 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:15:48pm

re: #189 sultan_knish

It's the part of the pattern of how the Obama campaign have tried to make their attack videos go viral, all the way back to the original Big Brother attack video against Hillary

They tried to create a virus, but somebody dropped the petri dish.

195 Abu Maven  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:15:57pm

Most of the people who work in PR firms doing "stealth marketing" campaigns are kids in their 20s and most of them are probably Obama supporters. So absent some compelling evidence that the campaign authorized their actions, my assumption would be that they did it on their own. They do this sort of thing all the time for paying clients. It's basically second nature to them. And if they are devoted Obama supporters, I don't see why they wouldn't do it on their own.

Don't get me wrong. It wouldn't shock me if the campaign is implicated. But I just don't see the evidence yet.

196 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:16:13pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

deep in my gut I know it is true....but Obama always did play dirty when it comes to him winning (think Chicago politics)....which by the way is ALL he wants to do....he is not interested in the actual job. (as seen by his performance in the Illinois senate and the US senate)

He is an arrogant nut job who likes to drop his shit just under the radar....you know he did it ...but he cloaks himself in plausible deniability (sp). just like flippin off hillary and the lipstick/pig comment....a wink and a nod and he comes out smelling like a rose.

197 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:16:15pm

re: #191 6pat6

Like I said, stereotypes...I have a couple of good friends that either sell cars or practice law. Two of the very few that are honest in their chosen professions.

The problem with the profession of selling cars is it will corrupt even a good person due to the irresistible pressure to "move the metal". Especially if it's a GM, Ford, Chrysler dealer.

198 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:16:40pm

re: #183 stevieray

Like the man said... people close to Axelrod seem to just sort of do things for him...

As a guy once said, money talks and b**shit walks.

199 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:16:40pm

re: #151 Abu Maven

Careful here. I haven't read through the comments yet, but let me say something: there is no convincing evidence that the Obama campaign authorized this. It would not be surprising in the least if members of a PR firm -- who routinely engage in what is called "stealth marketing" on behalf of their clients -- would take it upon themselves to do the same for Obama, without any authorization from the campaign. I don't see any compelling evidence that suggests the Obama campaign was behind this.

Keep investigating by all means, but let's not go overboard just yet and overextend ourselves in a Kos-like fashion.

True- but aren't campaign laws now in place that say ads have to be approved by the group that produced them? If this group did indeed produce this, they have to have the disclaimer.

200 jcm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:16:44pm

re: #167 Syrah

Nearly all of my classmates were against me then too. A few made their opinions crystal clear. But, and most importantly, some took up the standard with me. Had I sat there like a stone and said nothing, they would likely have said nothing also. It is difficult for many people to stand up first. It is easy for me.

I have not given up the city yet. There are still a few good people left to man the battlements with me.

It is the small-town virtues of self-reliance, hard work, personal responsibility, and common-sense ingenuity — and not those of the preening cosmopolitans that gape at them in mixed contempt and bafflement — that have made us the inheritors of the most magnificent, noble, decent and free society ever to appear on this earth. This Western Civilization… this American City… has earned the right to greet each sunrise with a blast of silver trumpets that can bring down mountains.

And what, really, is a Legion of Narcissists and a Confederacy of Despair against that?
Whittle is good, very good.

201 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:17:06pm

Chuck Norris is coming on Geraldo shorlty to talk about Palin.

202 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:17:12pm

re: #195 Abu Maven

Honestly I don't think anything will come of this. I can only pray that the American people aren't insane enough to elect the idiot from Chicago.

203 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:17:21pm

re: #170 realwest

I agree whole heartedly

204 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:17:24pm

re: #182 EIDE_Interface

I think his basic point is that the left seeks to so demoralize the populace, that they don't even have the will to man the battlements anymore.

It then comes back to us.

Should we stay silent and let them run out in their silk robes to open the city's gates to the Barbarians without?

No.

We have take up the argument and explain to the great middle why defending the city is right and just.

We can't sit this out and hope that someone else will come along and do it for us.

Our time is now.

205 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:17:56pm

re: #114 jcm Excellent my friend! Just Excellent.
And I truly hope that Charles continues to give wide exposure to this DIRTY TRICK and indeed, perhaps with some help, investigate OTHER instances - some of which were hinted at in JAWA Report's story - and if they turn out to be the same sort of thing, report them relentlessly!

206 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:18:00pm

re: #199 Sharmuta

True- but aren't campaign laws now in place that say ads have to be approved by the group that produced them? If this group did indeed produce this, they have to have the disclaimer.

Ooops, if they violated the campaign finance reform law - McCain can take credit for it, then they can be in big trouble!

207 otterpooka  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:18:17pm

I think this is a key component of the Obama campaign:

HARASS SARAH

This is also a Palin-drome.

208 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:18:18pm

re: #182 EIDE_Interface

I think his basic point is that the left seeks to so demoralize the populace, that they don't even have the will to man the battlements anymore.

And then they'll be surprised when the Orcs butcher them as well. Fools.

209 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:18:54pm

re: #204 Syrah

It then comes back to us.

Should we stay silent and let them run out in their silk robes to open the city's gates to the Barbarians without?

No.

We have take up the argument and explain to the great middle why defending the city is right and just.

We can't sit this out and hope that someone else will come along and do it for us.

Our time is now.

Yeah the years past when you could sit out an election(1992, 1996) are way past. This is about the future of our civilization.

210 JacksonTn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:19:28pm

re: #129 ggt

Regardless of her acomplishments or her qualificatins, what has the left so pissed-off is that they stand to lose this election on what they see is nothing but the sex appeal of Sarah Palin. They are suppossed to be the "owners" of sex appeal.

No, they are suppose to be the owners of strong women candidates who they think represent all women's issues. When Sarah is elected vp they cannot claim to be the party of women's issue. There is so much more riding on the defeat of Sarah than even the defeat of McCain. If they lose this election, they will have lost by coming with all their perceived strengths .....blacks and women.

211 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:19:31pm

re: #201 x-wing

Chuck Norris is coming on Geraldo shorlty to talk about Palin.

Good! Maybe, if ol' Jerry Rivers starts getting rude and all in Norris' face, Chuck will make his bell ring and lay him out like a damn 2x4!

212 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:19:53pm

re: #208 Dark_Falcon

The left tries to convince people that "those aren't Orcs, don't believe your lying eyes".

213 pat  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:20:15pm

Shouldn't this be sent to McCain? I mean I know he thinks all conservatives are nut cases, but.........

214 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:20:30pm

re: #211 6pat6

Good! Maybe, if ol' Jerry Rivers starts getting rude and all in Norris' face, Chuck will make his bell ring and lay him out like a damn 2x4!

I want a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. Nothing less will do.

215 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:20:34pm

re: #153 Racer X

/Maybe he and all the demonrats who support him should be sold on EBay!

216 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:20:48pm

re: #213 pat

Shouldn't this be sent to McCain? I mean I know he thinks all conservatives are nut cases, but.........

And he wonders why we hold our noses voting for him.

217 jcm  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:20:58pm

Night all!


Anyone who says that economic security is a human right, has been too much babied. While he babbles, other men are risking and losing their lives to protect him. They are fighting the sea, fighting the land, fighting disease and insects and weather and space and time, for him, while he chatters that all men have a right to security and that some pagan god – Society, The State, The Government, The Commune – must give it to them. Let the fighting men stop fighting this inhuman earth for one hour, and he will learn how much security there is.
— Rose Wilder Lane

218 RTLM  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:21:11pm

re: #212 EIDE_Interface

The left tries to convince people that "those aren't Orcs, don't believe your lying eyes".

Have you read Bill Whittle's latest piece?

219 A Balrog of Morgoth  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:21:17pm

re: #121 EIDE_Interface

An observation outside of this particular story:

I don't forget Bush's dirty tricks in South Carolina. The proof I guess is that dirty tricks win against those who aren't willing to engage in them. This is the 2nd time that McCain is being slimed and he doesn't have the balls to do the same back.

I keep hearing about these "dirty tricks" in South Carolina in 2000, yet have seen not one piece of evidence, nor a single account from an actual human being alledging direct exposure to the "dirty trick."

IIRC, was it not alledged that someone was handing out flyers that McCain had a black love child? That sounds like the sort of thing someone trying to influence cartoon social conservatives (who exist only in a liberal's fevered skull), just like they did with all the slanders of Palin's daughter.

220 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:21:17pm

re: #187 Metal Man

GMTA! ;)

221 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:21:42pm

re: #214 EIDE_Interface

I want a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. Nothing less will do.

That, and make him cry like a scared little girl! I'd pay to see that!

222 rawmuse  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:21:55pm

re: #4 EIDE_Interface

Looks pretty damning to any person with common sense.

OK, what do we do with the other 90% of the electorate?

223 gop_patriot  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:22:20pm

re: #201 x-wing

Chuck Norris is coming on Geraldo shorlty to talk about Palin.

I'll bet Geraldo won't say he'd like to spit on him.

224 Price_of_Peace  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:22:32pm

re: #93 shibumi

Have you tried introducing her to the nice people on Fox News? Or started sending her articles from the Wall Street Journal? If she can't stomach Rush, how about Dennis Praeger? If you can't get her to believe the media lies, perhaps you can expose her to media with a different point of view.

I've tried it all. I had her watching O'rielly one night, but she said everything he reported was false. For an intelligent woman, she just won't follow logic or facts.

225 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:22:38pm

re: #198 Catttt

As a guy once said, money talks and b**shit walks.

Danny DeVito in "Twins".

226 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:23:37pm

re: #20 jcm

Won't fit a 30 second sound bit, requires thinking on the part of the reader. Too complicated.

How's this?

"You know those attack e-mails you got about Governor Palin? Did you catch any of the "testimonials" on YouTube? Do you know they were paid for by the Obama campaign, allegedly? So that friend of Governor Palin's was no friend at all, but part of a old school Chicago style political hit machine. Is this the kind of leader that you want in the White House?

Obama. Not ready to lead."

227 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:23:42pm

re: #195 Abu Maven

The only part that makes me believe that maybe a young eswinner did it on his own....much like the kid hacking the palin email is that if this is such a top notch firm and they are at the top of their game....providing misinformation on behalf of their clients....then why in the hell would young mr winner use his own name?...what a dumbass. And the voice over girl just wanted to make sure that her bosses son got what he wanted ...cuz it IS the bosses son...for his little project and provided her voice to the video

228 HelloDare  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:23:56pm

My guess is that there will not be a money trail to any Publicis or Winner company but possibly to individuals who work for those firms. The individuals can claim that they were freelancing and not working for Winner or an affiliated company. Freelancing goes on all the time in advertising and PR. So technically they may be in the clear on that -- however -- if they were sockpuppeting during business hours, well, that would be hard to explain, wouldn't it. I think that's where they might get slammed. We can hope.

If they were dumb enough to use those e-mail addresses, then maybe the companies did take money directly.

But then we're assuming they did this for money and not for some sort of compensation in the future after Barry wins.

Or Axelrod or one of his cronies could have easily asked for help on a project. Who could refuse if he gave you tons of business in the past and could funnel business to you in the future.

I hope this goes somewhere but I don't think it will penetrate far from the Right blogs. We can hope. I'm going to send Drudge a tip now.

229 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:24:21pm

re: #211 6pat6

That's what I'm hoping..he's on now. Gerrys' being real polite.

230 SusanL  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:25:04pm

re: #67 shibumi

Consider how quickly Rush acted when Obama lied about him.

I think Rush will be very interested in this. He has a way of breaking down complicated issues and getting the point across.

231 Wendya  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:25:09pm

re: #77 shibumi

I vote for the person who makes Barbara Streisand and/or Rosie O'Donnell become psychotically deranged.

Can't argue with that.....

232 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:25:15pm

re: #218 RTLM

Have you read Bill Whittle's latest piece?

Yeah, a great piece. Bill is one of the intellectual giants of our time.

233 Dave the.....  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:25:16pm

Here's how the MSM controls the news. Everyday, my paper has a wire service story on the State trooper thing. Even if no new info happened, they just make sure it gets a headline each day. And every headline uses the term "Troopergate". Yet not once, in the maybe 20 stories they have run, have they ever mentioned why the guy was fired...drinking on the job, using the taser (stun gun) on his step child.

And it's amazing watching MSM tap dance around the Born Alive thing. Yesterday, they were forced to use the words "...who may show a sign of life". Yeah, like breathing and crying.

234 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:25:21pm

re: #218 RTLM

Have you read Bill Whittle's latest piece?

Yes, that is what I was commenting on. It is very good, Victor Davis Hanson level good.

235 ggt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:25:59pm

re: #190 Catttt

Chuck N Winter? Does that not sound like a play on words? Shouldn't it be Charles N Winter? Who puts their middle initial with a "nick" name?

Perhaps just joke fodder?

236 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:26:44pm

I know Obama and his campaign advisors ARE capable of this....but I seem to go back and forth on this ...between young son "ethan winner" doing this on his own ....and axelrod starting this in motion.

I will have to wait and see ...i suppose

237 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:27:38pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that is what I was commenting on. It is very good, Victor Davis Hanson level good.

Yeah Palin represents US, the common people. The ones who are willing to man the battlements against our enemies. So she must be destroyed, for this election and to demoralize us.

238 Dave the.....  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:27:41pm

Any one out there see Crazy Al Franken's new ad? It's really bad. Meaning not in production quality, but what he did. Franken got the elderly parents of a serviceman killed in Iraq (in his photo, he appears to be in his 40s...must be either carreer Army or in the guards/reserves) to slam Senetor Coleman, blaming him in this ad, for killing their son.

239 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:27:50pm

re: #201 x-wing

Chuck Norris is coming on Geraldo shorlty to talk about Palin.

Not to go off topic but.....my 22 yr old son says that Chuck Norris's tears cure cancer. Problem is he never cries. :)

240 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:27:51pm

Buzz it up lizards. We are at 14 and counting. Another 50 buzz ups will be very nice thank you.

241 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:27:57pm

re: #235 ggt

Chuck N Winter? Does that not sound like a play on words? Shouldn't it be Charles N Winter? Who puts their middle initial with a "nick" name?

Perhaps just joke fodder?

Did I say Winter? Winner! (LOL)

Maybe it was a Freudian slip - from winner to the winter of his discontent - I hope.

242 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:28:14pm

re: #224 Price_of_Peace

I've tried it all. I had her watching O'rielly one night, but she said everything he reported was false.

Tell her to back up her assertions with proof.

And if Bill O'Reilly doesn't count as proof, then neither can Brian Williams.

243 RTLM  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:29:16pm

Can someone make a screen shot of this please? Before it gets deleted.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

244 kawfytawk  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:29:22pm

gnite all

245 capitalist piglet  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:29:24pm

re: #219 A Balrog of Morgoth

I keep hearing about these "dirty tricks" in South Carolina in 2000, yet have seen not one piece of evidence, nor a single account from an actual human being alledging direct exposure to the "dirty trick."

IIRC, was it not alledged that someone was handing out flyers that McCain had a black love child? That sounds like the sort of thing someone trying to influence cartoon social conservatives (who exist only in a liberal's fevered skull), just like they did with all the slanders of Palin's daughter.

I'm with you. I've heard McCain make reference to that stuff, and people just believed Bush was behind it all. I have never seen anything approaching proof of that.

246 Gearhead  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:29:46pm

Watergate started slowly. Be patient.

They tried to paint a picture of Palin as a candidate with a lot of problems who generates strong, spontaneous, negative reactions from all corners. It just isn't so. Even if the smear campaign is just a "Winner family project," it was all orchestrated and planned by a small number of people in the same way that 'big, evil corporations' plan marketing campaigns. Obama filled Mile High Stadium, but it took a lot of planning, late hours, and media assistance. How much effort did it take to get 60,000 people to show up to see Sarah Palin today?

Even if Jawa Report's investigation does nothing but constrain Axelrod, that might be worth enough votes to matter. And it adds Axelrod to the same list as Ayers, Wright, et al: the questionable people Obama chooses to associate with. Is Obama naive, is he willfully blind, or does he agree with them and their methods, even if he can't say so in public? Is any of those choices really any worse than the other two?

As for the length and complexity, people like Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reilly boil complexity down for their audiences every day. It's really a matter of framing the issue, and nobody does that better than Limbaugh. O'Reilly tries, but ultimately it the story always ends up being about O'Reilly.

/sorry for the long-winded post

247 gop_patriot  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:30:04pm

re: #240 Syrah

15 now. Thanks for reminding me.

248 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:30:11pm

re: #176 Irene NYC
HI Irene - it seemed to me that Rusty made out a pretty good prima facie case against Winner & Associates and through them, led to David Axelrod who IS OBAMA'S MEDIA RELATIONS DIRECTOR!
The coverup was shoddily done and Rusty's exposure should be enough to make a lot of folks take the Obama Campaign and their 527's with a grain of salt.
THAT's ALL McCain needs - show (at least) this one Dirty Trick - which I believe is easily tied to Obama's media relations director and then ALL of Obama's ads and the Leftist 527 ads will be much more carefully scrutinized by the public.
Same exact thing that Charles achieved with Rathergate and the TANG memos - Charles couldn't, obviously, PROVE that Rather knew that Mapes pulled that shit off, but Charles did show that Rather should have known, as should CBS. They really became a non-factor for Kerry in that 2004 race thereafter.

249 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:30:49pm

re: #238 Dave the.....


Yeah,saw that the other day. The guy was a Major I think and he was 44. Pissed me off to no end, because they were blaming Coleman for his death, but he wasn't in the Senate to vote for the war.

250 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:30:56pm

re: #238 Dave the.....

Al Franken is a slimy, un-funny little bastard who thinks he can be one of the "big boys" in DC. Size-wise, that fat slime fits. But otherwise, he's just a lying liar who lies, or whatever that dumbass book he wrote was called.

251 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:31:00pm

re: #227 kawfytawk

why in the hell would young mr winner use his own name?...what a dumbass.

He works for a PR firm. Using his own name is a way to generate PR for the PR firm. It is, after all, his stock-in-trade.

252 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:31:15pm

re: #237 EIDE_Interface

Yeah Palin represents US, the common people. The ones who are willing to man the battlements against our enemies. So she must be destroyed, for this election and to demoralize us.

Very true. She's also the living refutation of the lefts beliefs. I've had someone tell me their hate of her was based on abortion. It's not just that she opposes abortion, her family's choices stand as a refutation of the lefts claims that abortion is a good thing to have available. For so refuting them, they will stop at nothing to destroy her.

253 runrabbitrun  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:31:27pm

re: #158 Nightwatch

It is up to the righteous NEW MEDIA to keep them running and therefore un-focused.

BUGLE CALL!

That's what I've been saying - the importance of the discoveries as a psychological shakedown... let Axelrod start fearing phone calls and emails from his connections, fearing breakdowns in confidence, and betrayals by his players. We can't control the front pages of the MSM, but we can make them sweat as they become aware that they are being tracked more closely than they ever imagined.

Already, some entries in the enemy's playbook that would have taken place in the next forty days have been x-ed out - you can bet on that.

254 ggt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:31:59pm

re: #241 Catttt

You might have said Winner--I'm so tired I can't see straight.

Either way, it is a fodder for something.

With that I will wish all the Lizards a great evening/morning.

weet dreams all!

255 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:32:21pm

re: #239 Suzette


LOL.. I see RacerX is here and he's got a million of them.

256 neocon hippie  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:32:31pm

Just sent the link and first part of the article to Hugh Hewitt.

G-d willing, this and/or the twerp from Tennessee will approach critical mass this week.

257 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:32:37pm

I'm up way past my bedtime, night all!

258 Nightwatch  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:32:38pm

re: #153 Racer X


OODA loop acquisition 2.55 seconds + - 00.55.
STATUS: Prime zero only......hold.

Hair Trigger :]

259 JacksonTn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:32:55pm

re: #231 Wendya

Can't argue with that.....

While waiting for the story to break I was flipping channels and saw Rosie selling dvd of her talk show on hsn for $19.95.

260 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:33:01pm

All I can say is that I shudder to think if the new media didn't exist right now. Obama would be guaranteed a landslide win without Charles and Co.

261 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:33:01pm

re: #243 RTLM

Can someone make a screen shot of this please? Before it gets deleted.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I doubt it will get deleted any time soon. It's been up over 2 weeks, and Komrade Zuniga put it up there himself.

And I've already debunked it, anyway.

262 capitalist piglet  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:33:02pm

re: #228 HelloDare

Maybe it's wearing a fake nose, glasses and a moustache, like this little Obama trick:

Obama paid $800K to ACORN through "Citizen Services, Inc."

263 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:33:08pm

I still cannot understand how anyone can vote for a man who thinks there are 59 states in the union. It's as if his mom was a socialist hippy and he went to school in a foreign country during his formative years, then did a lot of mind-bending drugs.

264 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:33:19pm

re: #255 x-wing

LOL.. I see RacerX is here and he's got a million of them.

So does my son! :)

265 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:34:08pm

Even if nothing comes of it but the exposure of Obama's hit machine ... it is a win. And it gives anyone who thinks Obama is bad, a starting point to put the Obamabots in their place.

It is going to be a fun week popping bubbleheads ;)

266 Wendya  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:34:20pm

re: #133 Syrah

I had several of those professors.

I only had one of them knock my grade down for it.

But that was near on 20 years ago.

My Poly Sci professor was a raving leftist. He and I disagree on damned near everything but we did it on friendly terms. He forced me to prove my points while he gave the left leaning students a pass and that irritated the hell out of me until after the semester was over and he told me I received the only A in his class. He said that even though my arguments didn't change his positions, I was the only student who actually attempted to logically justify my beliefs and positions based on the Constitution.

267 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:34:43pm

re: #263 Catttt

Did you forget your sarc tag?

/oh, wait...

268 6pat6  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:35:11pm

re: #263 Catttt

I still cannot understand how anyone can vote for a man who thinks there are 59 states in the union.

There are. There are 59 states in the islamic world. He has visited all but two of them (57).

269 HelloDare  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:35:16pm

If only Sol Alinsky were alive to see this. He'd be so proud of Barry. /

270 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:35:43pm

re: #77 shibumi

I vote for the person who made Barbara Streisand and/or Rosie O'Donnell become psychotically deranged. Works every single time!

Fixed it for you.

271 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:36:00pm

re: #261 victor_yugo

I doubt it will get deleted any time soon. It's been up over 2 weeks, and Komrade Zuniga put it up there himself.

And I've already debunked it, anyway.

Barabbas was the "Community Organizer".

272 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:36:16pm

Okay, all, I got things to do in the last 2 hours before bedtime.

Nytol.

273 sparrowlake  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:36:27pm

re: #263 Catttt

I still cannot understand how anyone can vote for a man who thinks there are 59 states in the union. It's as if his mom was a socialist hippy and he went to school in a foreign country during his formative years, then did a lot of mind-bending drugs.

Stop making excuses for his ignorance. LOLOL.

274 michaelasher  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:36:33pm
275 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:36:43pm

re: #264 Suzette

I bought the book and I'll be damned if I can find it, I think my son stole it.

276 ladycatnip  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:37:10pm

Haven't read up-thread, but the YouTube has been yanked - it's "no longer available."

Someone at that PR firm better start packin' their bags.

277 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:37:32pm

re: #275 x-wing

I bought the book and I'll be damned if I can find it, I think my son stole it.

Probably did.....son's love Chuck Norris! :)

278 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:37:40pm

re: #238 Dave the.....

Any one out there see Crazy Al Franken's new ad? It's really bad. Meaning not in production quality, but what he did. Franken got the elderly parents of a serviceman killed in Iraq (in his photo, he appears to be in his 40s...must be either carreer Army or in the guards/reserves) to slam Senetor Coleman, blaming him in this ad, for killing their son.

The Republicans need ads that show Iraqis thanking the US for eliminating Saddam and Al Qaeda.
Like "I lost my father in Saddam's prisons, and I would have been arrested soon. Thank you, America, for saving me and my country."

279 RTLM  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:39:37pm

re: #261 victor_yugo

The deal with the Kos post is that its 9/4. No mention of that now well-spammed phrase prior to that.

Clarice Feldman

280 spadez  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:39:39pm

Thanks for the link to this article Charles. I think what Rusty did took a tremendous amount of work.

281 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:40:17pm

Ace had the flaming skull up, all the youtube videos have been pulled down, notice within minutes of Rusty's post

Trouble is, boys, we got copies. Of everyf(*&ingthing.

Bwahahahha!

282 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:40:58pm

My cats are getting annoyed - past their bed time, and they need me to help them hold down the bed.

Via hotair - here is a super fun Obama soundboard. Wicked.

'Night.

283 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:42:09pm

re: #281 Yankee Division Son

Ace had the flaming skull up, all the youtube videos have been pulled down, notice within minutes of Rusty's post

Trouble is, boys, we got copies. Of everyf(*&ingthing.

Bwahahahha!

ROFL! Love the flaming skull.

284 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:44:54pm

re: #179 Carolmill
Re: John McCain Campaign charges

Wasn't Cindy in that province of Vietnam in June? Gee, how hard is it for them to do any investigation? Even I know she was there.

285 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:44:55pm

re: #281 Yankee Division Son

Ace had the flaming skull up, all the youtube videos have been pulled down, notice within minutes of Rusty's post

Trouble is, boys, we got copies. Of everyf(*&ingthing.

Bwahahahha!

Whoomp!

286 ladycatnip  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:44:56pm

#263 Cattt

I still cannot understand how anyone can vote for a man who thinks there are 59 states in the union.

Can you imagine if Palin had said that? It would be worse than Quayle's misspelling of 'potato'. The media would be all over her not knowing American history - "What kind of woman, mayor, governor, doesn't know how many states in our union?!" "What kind of education did she have? She's not ready for the office of VP!" It would be on The View, Larry King, Chris Matthews' head would explode, and Olbermann would be foaming at the mouth.

287 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:45:10pm

! VIDEO ON JAWA is no longer available?

Video has been removed by the user!

288 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:45:18pm

re: #266 Wendya

My Poly Sci professor was a raving leftist. He and I disagree on damned near everything but we did it on friendly terms. He forced me to prove my points while he gave the left leaning students a pass and that irritated the hell out of me until after the semester was over and he told me I received the only A in his class. He said that even though my arguments didn't change his positions, I was the only student who actually attempted to logically justify my beliefs and positions based on the Constitution.

One of my proffs was very much like that, except that I lost my cool with him during the first week of my freshman semester and cussed him out in class.

I apologized afterward. I really felt a fool for having let him goad me like that. He laughed and said that it was alright and that all was forgiven. He further said that he was just thrilled that there was somebody in the class who was awake enough to voice an opinion, even if poorly.

In all that classes that I later took with him, I never received less than an A.

289 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:46:04pm

re: #279 RTLM

Love Clarice!

290 capitalist piglet  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:46:30pm

re: #281 Yankee Division Son

Ace had the flaming skull up, all the youtube videos have been pulled down, notice within minutes of Rusty's post

Trouble is, boys, we got copies. Of everyf(*&ingthing.

Bwahahahha!

Awesome.

291 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:46:30pm

re: #195 Abu Maven
My friend - you are correct in some respects with that post. But here we have a family enterprise - Winner & Associates and some family members (albeit the younger ones) of that entrerprise did in fact put this on YouTube as an amateur video when it was NO SUCH THING. They did that to help stoke the fires and, for all we know stoked the fires that they started, about a candidate for Vice-President. Their names (and the name of one of the not-so-young member of the family business) are all over this thing.
Can Axlerod be tied into it? I don't know; I thought Rusty did a fair job on his first run of the day. Has that family PR business done a LOT of ads for Democrats and Obama in particular - indisputably so.
Have they done so at the direct behest of David Axelrod, also indibutably so; pleading youthful enthusiasm isn't going to get them very far with the FEC and THEY KNOW IT. Somone - perhaps the actor who "acted" the amatuer voice over will talk, but someone will talk and I believe that will tie this "ad" - illegal under the FEC - into Axelrod which automatically ties in Obama. Rusty and his crew have done an awful lot of research, most of which WE still don't know about.
The dots are there to be connected (if Rusty and friends haven't already done so) on this matter and I have NO DOUBT AT ALL on other matters as well.
Once again, Obama's judgment in his associates and advisors will be at the forefront and the voters WILL see it.

292 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:47:01pm

re: #287 Celtic Templar

! VIDEO ON JAWA is no longer available?

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Video has been removed by the user!

Poor Ethan probably had his yachting disrupted today. /

293 Nightwatch  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:47:12pm

Me fire wall is blocking hell on the ACE and JAWA,

must think of the kids....

Again, good night to you all

294 RTLM  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:47:15pm
295 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:47:42pm

Pointing out gaffes are one thing, but it's the stinking double-standard that riles me. If Palin made that kind of whopper(57 states), she'd be crucified by Bill O'Reilly, not just the flaming leftists.

296 MagnaniomousCoward  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:48:06pm

the videos uploaded by "gocamerica" and "grpcncrndamrcns" do not bear the hallmark signs of one YouTube user reuploading a video he or she found at YouTube -- the double YouTube watermark.

Keepvid.com and many other methods let you download YouTube videos without a watermark. Apart from that, good research.

297 NY Nana  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:48:08pm

re: #282 Catttt

G'nite, Catttt, sweet dreams!

And g'nite, lizards...I am trying to get to sleep while it's still dark!

298 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:48:22pm

re: #278 Kosh's Shadow

You know if you go over to one of the milblogs, like Blackfive, you might just find something like that.

299 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:48:31pm

re: #216 EIDE_Interface

And he wonders why we hold our noses voting for him.

THWAP! To broken-glass Republicans, there is no other choice.

300 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:49:11pm

Just checked, the user Rusty id's is ESWINNER,

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

No videos at this time

ESWINNER
Joined: August 28, 2006
Last Sign In: 18 minutes ago
Videos Watched: 624
Subscribers: 7
Channel Views: 473

Looks ESWINENR is taking a dump, note just signed in 18 minutes ago, an no more videos. Running scared.

301 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:49:12pm

re: #292 Catttt

Poor Ethan probably had his yachting disrupted today. /


ROFLMAO! Tsk tsk.

302 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:49:34pm

re: #204 Syrah
WOW.

We have take up the argument and explain to the great middle why defending the city is right and just.

We can't sit this out and hope that someone else will come along and do it for us.

Our time is now.

Great, and completely honest and accurate post. Thank you for that.

303 ledger1  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:50:26pm

I wonder if Charles "Chuck" N. Winner President of Winner & Associates was the hatchet man who killed Hillary Clinton's campaign.

It must have been excruciatingly painful for Hill and Bill to be smeared with the label of a racist.

One would think the Clintons knew exactly who was smearing them and would have taken action. But, it’s possible the Obama and Winner & Associates out foxed them.

304 Catttt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:50:32pm

re: #294 RTLM

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I just buzzed that to Yahoo. Click the link, then click buzz and buzz it up retro.

And now - REALLY - going to bed.

I am SOOOOO looking forward to my man Rush tomorrow.

305 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:51:01pm

re: #294 RTLM

Great reminder!

306 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:53:33pm

re: #287 Celtic Templar

! VIDEO ON JAWA is no longer available?

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Video has been removed by the user!

For anyone that's interested, you can leave eswinner a comment on his youtube page:

307 fmfnavydoc  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:53:55pm

Another Winner business?

I've posted the above link at Ace's. Jawa and Patterico's...I'm betting this business may have a role in this.

308 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:54:24pm

re: #297 NY Nana

Nite, Nana. Haven't been posting much, am watching a creepy show on Ch 2.
'weet dreams.

'Nite lizards, I am out too.

309 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:54:33pm

re: #300 Celtic Templar

ye gads, I wish I was a fly in a computer, blackberry or cell phone so I could hear/see what orders just went down to get him to pull it. Would love to know.

310 fmfnavydoc  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:55:50pm

Something else to add - I remember this when I was stationed at great lakes in '04...

When Obama ran for the Senate in '04, he faced Jack Ryan - The Chicago Trib and an ABC station pushed for the custody records (which were sealed in CA) to be opened, and they were, which resulted in Ryan pulling out of the Senate race (they revealed issues that Ryan and his ex - actress Jeri Ryan - had during their marriage). Questions were raised about who really pushed the Trib and the ABC station to open the records...care to guess who use to work for the Trib before helping the One with is campaign...David Axelrod.

My best guess...Axelrod's fingerprints are all over this...

311 HelloDare  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:56:22pm

re: #306 Opilio

For anyone that's interested, you can leave eswinner a comment on his youtube page:


eswinner
Joined: August 28, 2006
Last Sign In: 25 minutes ago
Videos Watched: 624
Subscribers: 7
Channel Views: 473
Offering a fair and unbiased view towards life and politics
Age: 39
I try to give an unbiased account of all things American.
Country: United States

312 pianobuff  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:57:24pm

OK - Check this out. Listen through the whole thing as she changes her voice slightly for different ads.

Close?

313 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:57:48pm

re: #302 realwest

Glad to have you with me on the battlements.

314 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:58:34pm

re: #307 fmfnavydoc

Another Winner business?

I've posted the above link at Ace's. Jawa and Patterico's...I'm betting this business may have a role in this.

Is Charles Winner, the partner in this firm ESWINNER? Using an 8 character name from reverse, charlESWINNER? 8 character user names are not unheard of?

315 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:58:52pm

re: #307 fmfnavydoc

What a great find!

316 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 10:58:57pm

Nite Lizards......sweet dreams to you all! :)

317 dgax65  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:00:16pm

re: #101 realwest

I think the MSM did a very good job of ignoring Bill Clinton's perjury? Even in the unlikely event that somebody actually goes to trial for this, the MSM will do their best to avoid any linkage to Obama.

318 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:00:45pm

re: #307 fmfnavydoc

Another Winner business?

I've posted the above link at Ace's. Jawa and Patterico's...I'm betting this business may have a role in this.

Most definitely! Listed in this bio.

[Link: www.ntra.com...]

319 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:01:31pm

re: #314 Celtic Templar

Charles has a son named Ethan.

320 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:01:38pm

Charles Winner
Born: Aug. 18, 1940, Los Angeles
Resident: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Family: Wife Annie, sons Zachary, Ethan and Justyn, and daughter Nicole
Business: Winner is involved with two businesses. One business is Winner & Mandabach Campaigns, is a full service, national consulting firm that specializes solely in ballot measure campaigns -- including ballot initiatives, referenda, constitutional amendments and bond measures. W&M produces and oversees all aspects of ballot measure campaigns and has produced more than 150 campaigns with a 90 percent success rate. W&M also has produced and placed more than 1300 television advertisements. He also co-founded Winner/Wagner & Associates in 1975. Now known as Winner & Associates, the firm provides a broad range of strategic communication services. Winner served 4 years as president of the board of Telecommunications Commissioners for the City of Los Angeles and is currently president of the Medallion Group of Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Racing Background: Involved in racing since 1986 when he bought his first horse
Has horses with trainers Neil Drysdale, Bobby Frankel, Kristin Mulhall and Patrick Gallagher
Has 32 horses, many in partnership, in training
Among his best horses: Domestic Dispute, Walkslikeaduck, who finished 12th in the 2000 Breeders' Cup Mile; Fine n' Majestic, who won the 1995 California Derby, and stakes winners Statement and Evil's Pick
First stakes winner was filly Bolchina, who was in the Winning Colors-Goodbye Halo generation. She is now a broodmare for Winner and has produced several winners
Bought Domestic Dispute just prior to the 2003 Kentucky Derby in which he finished 10th
May get into breeding in a bigger way after Domestic Dispute goes to stud at Northview Stallion Station in Maryland. The partners have retained a part of him for breeding purposes.

Charles Winner Bio

You can't hide.

321 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:02:09pm

re: #314 Celtic Templar

I think ES winner is his son.

322 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:02:13pm

re: #313 Syrah
I'm VERY PROUD to be there with you!

323 runrabbitrun  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:03:05pm

A good night to all, and a great tomorrow! (thanks from the heart for helping me keep the faith!)

324 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:03:18pm

Sorry, ESWINNER in Jawa's article is Ethan S. Winner.

325 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:04:07pm

re: #323 runrabbitrun

Nite, sweet dreams. I am supposed to be leaving too but here I am.

326 realwest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:04:55pm

Well all y'all it's been grand as usual, but geez, I gotta get some sleep!
I hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Goodnight, all.

327 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:04:59pm

Irony, Winner&Associates have a TV Advertisment for the Alaska Visitors Association

328 saltmarsh  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:05:08pm

What did Barack Obama approve and when did he approve it?

/we're gonna take the gloves off...

329 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:06:03pm

re: #326 realwest

Good night, Reealwest. Take extra good care of yourself.

330 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:06:12pm

re: #325 Pvt Bin Jammin

I'm still here too..... PBJ! Hope you are doing well!
/but I'll be off in a second or so.
And sweet dreams to you also!

331 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:06:43pm

Pull the videos a few minutes after the Jawa story?

Dopey move.

PR and crisis management is harder when you are under the microscope, ain't it?

332 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:07:52pm

re: #327 Celtic Templar

Irony, Winner&Associates have a TV Advertisment for the Alaska Visitors Association

And that's probably the last ad they'll ever have in Alaska. Their little smear should make the whole state hate them.

333 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:08:36pm

I doubt this will get talked about anywhere other than the so-called "wingnutosphere" or whatever stupid-ass term the leftie Dems call non-dems these days.

They control the agenda, and they know it. They can rape and pillage all they want and they'll get a free pass, courtesy of the Agenda-Setting Theory: if it ain't talked about, it don't exist.

Non-Dems get gored, MSM ignores, what do you want to bet the "McCain's Cars" thing is front page news by Tuesday?

/f-ckin' cynical. Really. Sick of it.

334 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:08:48pm

re: #328 saltmarsh

He'll claim he didn't approve it. He's been school by Mayor Daley.

335 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:09:06pm

re: #327 Celtic Templar

This was kind of interesting, coming from dim supporters:

"Objective: Reassure potential visitors that Alaska and Prince William Sound are beautiful and accessible and have recovered from the Exxon Valdez oil spill."

336 Celtic Templar[deleted]  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:09:29pm
337 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:10:16pm

re: #330 Suzette

Nite and thanks for the replys.

338 redshirt  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:10:46pm

Best case scenario, Axelrod is tied to this and law was broken, what is the penalty? What is the best result we can hope for? (yes, other than barack being humiliated and losing the election in a landslide)

339 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:10:52pm

re: #328 saltmarsh

What did Barack Obama approve and when did he approve it?

/we're gonna take the gloves off...

Careful with the Watergate analogies. We must make sure we do not tarnish Richard Nixon by comparing him to Obama. He had a decent regard for this country and a respect for the common man. Obama clearly does not have the former and I doubt he has the latter.

340 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:11:05pm

And more tinfoil hat goodness,

AkinGump has their site in Chinese, English and Russian. No Spanish?

Russian

341 fooburger  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:11:18pm

This is pretty lame, IMHO.. it's pretty obvious to me that this spot was probably formulated during the early hours of discovery on Palin. They recorded it, and then tossed it when it became clear it was above and beyond ridiculous.
Most likely, someone decided to post it anyways... There's no solid connection between the youtube account and the actual person identified. Could easily be someone who wanted to get that guy in trouble. The only way to find out is to subpoena records from youtube.
Now if there were a whole bunch of similarly professional videos being released in an orchestrated manner.. then maybe there's an issue.

342 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:11:23pm

re: #337 x-wing

Enjoy replying to you! :)
/nice to meet you also!

343 A Balrog of Morgoth  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:11:55pm

Just when I thought this was pretty much a fart in the bathtub, Mr. Astroturfer goes and removes the videos. Seems somebody is worried. Yeah, that will work. Just like it did for the email-hacker dweeb who unplugged himself from the interwebs when he realized just what he got himself into.

Ace hinted that there was more coming.

344 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:13:30pm

re: #334 merrytexas

He's been schoolED by Mayor Daley.

PIMF

345 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:13:32pm

re: #303 ledger1

I wonder if Charles "Chuck" N. Winner President of Winner & Associates was the hatchet man who killed Hillary Clinton's campaign.

It must have been excruciatingly painful for Hill and Bill to be smeared with the label of a racist.

One would think the Clintons knew exactly who was smearing them and would have taken action. But, it’s possible the Obama and Winner & Associates out foxed them.

I'd be interested to know if HilBilly & Co. have any negative past history with Obie's media puppetmasters. Maybe McCain should have some of his people talk to her people.

346 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:13:46pm

re: #342 Suzette

Still trying to get on jawa. re-booted and defraging now. I need A new computer. :>}

347 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:13:47pm

re: #343 A Balrog of Morgoth

Just when I thought this was pretty much a fart in the bathtub, Mr. Astroturfer goes and removes the videos. Seems somebody is worried. Yeah, that will work. Just like it did for the email-hacker dweeb who unplugged himself from the interwebs when he realized just what he got himself into.

Ace hinted that there was more coming.

Agreed. All he did was make himself look guilty.

348 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:14:56pm

re: #331 stevieray

Pull the videos a few minutes after the Jawa story?

Dopey move.

PR and crisis management is harder when you are under the microscope, ain't it?

They are panicking. The shredders are going full tilt, but the bank and payroll records will remain. Nothing like receipts. AL Capone could help clue them in on the problem with receipts.

349 equable  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:14:59pm

Oh yay.

Per Fox News, Pakistan troops opened fire on our helicopters.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,425803,00.html

350 JacksonTn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:15:23pm

re: #341 fooburger

This is pretty lame, IMHO.. it's pretty obvious to me that this spot was probably formulated during the early hours of discovery on Palin. They recorded it, and then tossed it when it became clear it was above and beyond ridiculous.
Most likely, someone decided to post it anyways... There's no solid connection between the youtube account and the actual person identified. Could easily be someone who wanted to get that guy in trouble. The only way to find out is to subpoena records from youtube.
Now if there were a whole bunch of similarly professional videos being released in an orchestrated manner.. then maybe there's an issue.

I am new here and don't really know you but your comment sounds exactly like what has been said that the Obama camp would respond almost to the word.

351 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:15:29pm

re: #346 x-wing

If nothing else try tomorrow or later tonight.
/hope that helps and at least Charles posted it so you read it. ;)

352 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:16:18pm

So AkinGump is up to its neck in Russian capital markets (the one's that tanked last week?)

Lawyers from our Moscow office work closely with the lawyers and policy advisors in our other offices around the world to provide innovative solutions and strategies for international and Russian capital markets transactions; mergers and acquisitions; joint ventures; bank, vendor and other financings; real estate development and transactions; investment funds structuring and portfolio transaction; international arbitration and litigation in Russia or involving Russian companies; large-scale project development; corporate governance; and complex public law and policy matters in Russia and the United States.

Selling out U.S. interests to the Russians:

In the telecommunications industry, we recently represented VimpelCom in its announced acquisition of Golden Telecom for $4.2 billion, the largest acquisition by a U.S. publicly listed Russian company of a U.S. public company.

We also have represented clients in major energy joint ventures and projects, including LUKOIL in its US$2.4 billion strategic alliance and privatization transaction with ConocoPhillips, its $2.3 billion acquisition of Nelson Resources Ltd, a Canadian publicly listed company with upstream assets in Kazakhstan, and the sale of its US$1.4 billion equity interest in the Azeri-Chirag-Gunashli project in Azerbaijan.

Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP Moscow Office

353 saltmarsh  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:17:00pm

re: #334 merrytexas

He's denied a number of things that may yet bite him in the ass.

My point is, keep the pressure on. If they're busy responding to being caught and exposed it's that much harder for them to implement their plan.

Jawa reports, You tube videos pulled immediately. The perp's running. The lights have come on and the roaches are beating feet.

354 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:17:25pm

re: #351 Suzette

pimf "could read it"
/time for me to hit the bed! :)

355 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:17:58pm

re: #351 Suzette

Just got done with disc clean up. boy someone needs to lay off the downloads. I'm not going father than that. :)

356 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:18:38pm

So astroturfed PR campaign leads back to Winner & Associates, leads back to Publicis Consultants plus Akin Gump, which leads to Chicago, Beijing and Moscow.

Lovely.

357 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:19:21pm

re: #356 Celtic Templar

So astroturfed PR campaign leads back to Winner & Associates, leads back to Publicis Consultants plus Akin Gump, which leads to Chicago, Beijing and Moscow.

Lovely.

PIMF, I meant Washington D.C., not Chicago.

358 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:19:40pm

re: #353 saltmarsh

The media will protect him. They don't report anything negative about him ya know.

359 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:20:01pm

re: #287 Celtic Templar

! VIDEO ON JAWA is no longer available?

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Video has been removed by the user!

Have all 4 copies been removed?

360 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:20:25pm

The investigation goes open source.

361 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:21:24pm

re: #353 saltmarsh

He's denied a number of things that may yet bite him in the ass.

My point is, keep the pressure on. If they're busy responding to being caught and exposed it's that much harder for them to implement their plan.

Jawa reports, You tube videos pulled immediately. The perp's running. The lights have come on and the roaches are beating feet.

That's right... keep the pressure on. Barack's never run in a competitive election before, and he doesn't seem to handle pressure well. He's good when he controls the tempo, but doesn't respond well to interruptions.

362 Gearhead  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:21:50pm

re: #359 Sharmuta

Have all 4 copies been removed?

Yes. Rusty has links to his own copy and posted a screenshot of ESWINNER's YouTube page showing that he posted the videos.

363 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:22:44pm

re: #362 Gearhead

and says he's removing all traces of his activities, too!

364 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:23:22pm

re: #336 Celtic Templar

I keep trying to go to sleep and you keep bringing the links. LOL Should I brew up a cup of java?

365 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:24:00pm

Akin Gump campaign contributions besides the "viral" PR.

366 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:24:36pm

re: #364 Pvt Bin Jammin

I keep trying to go to sleep and you keep bringing the links. LOL Should I brew up a cup of java?

Sorry, I have insomnia and a "social engineer" ;)

367 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:24:42pm

re: #362 Gearhead

Yes. Rusty has links to his own copy and posted a screenshot of ESWINNER's YouTube page showing that he posted the videos.

He knew they would pull them. Heh.

I wonder if any other pro Obama, anti McCain/Palin videos are disappearing right now as well?

368 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:24:54pm

re: #359 Sharmuta

Have all 4 copies been removed?

It appears that Rusty's post hit close to the bone doesn't it?
/and seems there might or is some truth to that post. :)

369 Wendya  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:25:37pm

re: #341 fooburger

This is pretty lame, IMHO.. it's pretty obvious to me that this spot was probably formulated during the early hours of discovery on Palin. They recorded it, and then tossed it when it became clear it was above and beyond ridiculous.
Most likely, someone decided to post it anyways... There's no solid connection between the youtube account and the actual person identified. Could easily be someone who wanted to get that guy in trouble. The only way to find out is to subpoena records from youtube.
Now if there were a whole bunch of similarly professional videos being released in an orchestrated manner.. then maybe there's an issue.

Wow... this is good enough to be posted on Kos and DU.

Good job.....

/

370 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:25:40pm

re: #362 Gearhead


re: #363 merrytexas

Nothing says "busted" like the clean-up.

371 capitalist piglet  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:26:08pm

Can't vouch for this, but I just saw:

172 [Link: www.youtube.com...] ACCOUNT DELETED!

They are scattering.

372 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:26:24pm

re: #349 equable

Oh yay.

Per Fox News, Pakistan troops opened fire on our helicopters.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,4258 03,00.html

Second sentence of linked story:

Pakistan's army and the U.S. military in Afghanistan said they had no information on the alleged incident late Sunday in North Waziristan.
373 Suzette  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:26:25pm

re: #364 Pvt Bin Jammin

Me too! Just too lazy to get up and get to bed.....plus the comments are
keeping me interested.

374 capitalist piglet  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:26:56pm

re: #371 capitalist piglet

Can't vouch for this, but I just saw:

172 [Link: www.youtube.com...] ACCOUNT DELETED!

They are scattering.


That should say that "gocamerica" has deleted his/her/its account.

375 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:28:12pm

re: #365 Celtic Templar

Akin Gump campaign contributions besides the "viral" PR.

Sorry to quote myself, but David L. Axelrod is listed as a contributor to the Hillary Clinton campaign:

David L Axelrod
1229 12th St Nw Apt 203 Apt 203
Washington, District of Columbia 20005
Attorney @ Akin Gump

(and I'm sorry for using this forum for a brain dump, but I'm hoping others can chime in - I assume everything that I am posting is not related until it is)

376 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:28:30pm

re: #371 capitalist piglet

Can't vouch for this, but I just saw:

172 [Link: www.youtube.com...] ACCOUNT DELETED!

They are scattering.

WHat was the name of the deleted account? I couldn't tell from your link.

377 Syrah  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:28:57pm

Isn't it illegal to tamper with and destroy evidence?

Deleting everything can be as big of a problem for them as would be leaving it all up.

378 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:29:06pm

The YouTube user "TheTrollhammer" has reposted the eswinner's deleted video under the title: "eswinner's deleted Sarah Palin Smear"

379 Gearhead  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:29:36pm

re: #367 stevieray

He knew they would pull them. Heh.

I wonder if any other pro Obama, anti McCain/Palin videos are disappearing right now as well?

If so, I wish there was an easy way to identify the user accounts.

380 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:29:38pm

re: #374 capitalist piglet

Cool! Go to Jawa and tell Rusty!

381 Canadian Guy  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:30:15pm

give these smear merchants your two cents if you have a YouTube account


Here's there astroturf account ... you can leave comments

382 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:32:12pm

re: #356 Celtic Templar

So astroturfed PR campaign leads back to Winner & Associates, leads back to Publicis Consultants plus Akin Gump, which leads to Chicago, Beijing and Moscow.

Lovely.

Well, BHO is the Manchurian Candidate, isn't he?

383 gop_patriot  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:32:17pm

re: #376 stevieray

WHat was the name of the deleted account? I couldn't tell from your link.

gocamerica

384 capitalist piglet  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:32:21pm

re: #376 stevieray

WHat was the name of the deleted account? I couldn't tell from your link.


Yeah, I figured that out after I posted [hits self in head] - it's the "gocamerica" account, the "friend" of eswinner. Just saw someone on Ace's blog point that out.

385 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:32:22pm

re: #349 equable

Oh yay.

Per Fox News, Pakistan troops opened fire on our helicopters.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,4258 03,00.html

That's a mixed blessing. Pakistan needs to be dealt with sooner or later. Sooner is fine by me.

386 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:33:05pm

re: #366 Celtic Templar

LOL

I am not lasting long here but this is SO interesting to me I hate to leave LGF.
Maybe I should just put a large note on my screen saying "don't refresh.....read this thread".

387 Arbalest  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:33:13pm

For all those who have posting / commenting privileges at Kos, DU, etc., I ask another question:

Have any of you considered posting questions of the form:

"How do we know that Obama is fully informed?"

"How do we know that Obama is truthfully informed?"

"Barak may say this, but why do you believe him?"

"Where did all the videos go?"

A full-fledged diary at Kos might be fun.

388 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:34:27pm

re: #381 Canadian Guy

give these smear merchants your two cents if you have a YouTube account


Here's there astroturf account ... you can leave comments

I posted that link earlier. It's up to about 20 comments now, up from 0 a couple of hours ago.

389 gop_patriot  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:35:44pm

re: #378 Opilio

The YouTube user "TheTrollhammer" has reposted the eswinner's deleted video under the title: "eswinner's deleted Sarah Palin Smear"

Great! The Trollhammer, huh? :)

/Wonder if that's Nekama, author of the most excellent Nekama's Troll Hammer?

390 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:37:08pm

re: #378 Opilio

The YouTube user "TheTrollhammer" has reposted the eswinner's deleted video under the title: "eswinner's deleted Sarah Palin Smear"

That handle... A Lizard, you think?

391 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:37:30pm

Interesting- if there was nothing wrong with this little "amateur" smear video- why would it get pulled? Why are accounts getting deleted?

Curiouser and curiouser. How deep is this rabbit hole, asked Alice.

392 stevieray  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:37:42pm

re: #384 capitalist piglet

Yeah, I figured that out after I posted [hits self in head] - it's the "gocamerica" account, the "friend" of eswinner. Just saw someone on Ace's blog point that out.

This is too funny. Nothings says "guilty as charged" quite like digging a hole and burying stuff!

393 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:37:57pm

re: #389 gop_patriot

Now that's a good one, I'd better brew some coffee right away. OMG this is getting good.

394 Celtic Templar[deleted]  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:38:36pm
395 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:39:16pm

Don't forget to Buzz this post.

396 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:40:27pm

GOP senator: A 'stretch' to say Palin is qualified

That's funny, isn't a stretch to call Hagel a GOP senator?

397 gop_patriot  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:40:50pm

re: #393 Pvt Bin Jammin

And I'm so tired I can't keep my eyes open. I could use some of that coffee!

398 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:42:59pm

Videos and user accounts being deleted. Someone is running scared.

We see you!

McChimpy has your phones tapped.

Sleep tight.

399 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:43:08pm

re: #396 Celtic Templar

No phone numbers.

400 Celtic Templar[deleted]  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:43:22pm
401 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:43:40pm

re: #378 Opilio

The YouTube user "TheTrollhammer" has reposted the eswinner's deleted video under the title: "eswinner's deleted Sarah Palin Smear"

I wonder if that's Nekama?

402 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:44:10pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

No phone numbers.

Huh?

403 ShortBald&Potbellied[deleted]  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:44:30pm
404 merrytexas  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:44:32pm

Keep up the good work, sleuths and dragonslayers, gents and ladies! Day dawns soon.

405 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:44:44pm

re: #397 gop_patriot

I can brew up some good coffee. I'll leave some on the side far for you.

I really do have to crash but I really am going to slap a note on my monitor saying "do not refresh" LOL

Take care, lizards. I hope Rusty's thing goes "viral"!

406 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:44:57pm

re: #402 Celtic Templar

You can't post phone numbers- it's in the rules at the top of every thread.

407 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:45:09pm

re: #396 Celtic Templar

GOP senator: A 'stretch' to say Palin is qualified

That's funny, isn't a stretch to call Hagel a GOP senator?

Wider than the widest ocean...

408 JacksonTn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:45:22pm

Ace just posted this in comments:

110 it's going to get more play than some of you think. People who know people are pushing the story hard to Limbaugh, Ingraham, Hannity, Coulter, Levin, etc.

The story isn't just the videos-- that's just the first big break in it.


Posted by: ace at September 22, 2008 01:46 AM (1WR4H)

409 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:45:47pm

re: #406 Sharmuta

You can't post phone numbers- it's in the rules at the top of every thread.

I thought that meant personal phone numbers, like home numbers or cell numbers? This is a business number listed on their site:

[Link: www.akingump.com...]

410 kynna  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:46:15pm

So the MSM is going to look at this and take the angle of highlighting the smears -- as allegations, of course -- and then call it a day.

All that other stuff is just 'blog noise' anyway, right?

Seriously though, I know all the lefties who live around here are going to take that tack. The e-mail password theft is only about Palin using her personal account for government business even though lil' Kernal admitted nothing was found to support that allegation.

This has to be put together in a way that regular people can access and understand quickly. The spin the leftists are going to engage in will be phenomenal.

I still think Axelrod will go under the bus. Maybe even by the time I get up tomorrow A.M. And then the MSM can safely forget about him.

411 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:46:24pm

re: #409 Celtic Templar

Then just post the link- because it's all phone numbers.

412 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:47:47pm

Knock it off with the phone numbers, guys.I think it's ok to post a link to the numbers and adresses but don't cut and paste them here. It causes problems for the Big Lizard Upstairs.

413 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:48:37pm

re: #382 Alberta Oil Peon

Well, BHO is the Manchurian Candidate, isn't he?

Like I've claimed here before (wink), Obama's activation phrase is the Presidential Oath of Office.

414 Wendya  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:48:38pm

re: #410 kynna

I still think Axelrod will go under the bus. Maybe even by the time I get up tomorrow A.M. And then the MSM can safely forget about him.

Obama needs him. Axelrod created Obama.

415 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:49:11pm

867-5309
(testing)

416 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:49:55pm

re: #410 kynna

So the MSM is going to look at this and take the angle of highlighting the smears -- as allegations, of course -- and then call it a day.

All that other stuff is just 'blog noise' anyway, right?

Seriously though, I know all the lefties who live around here are going to take that tack. The e-mail password theft is only about Palin using her personal account for government business even though lil' Kernal admitted nothing was found to support that allegation.

This has to be put together in a way that regular people can access and understand quickly. The spin the leftists are going to engage in will be phenomenal.

I still think Axelrod will go under the bus. Maybe even by the time I get up tomorrow A.M. And then the MSM can safely forget about him.

To toss Axelrod would be to admit malfeasance at too high a level in the campaign. Won't happen.

417 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:49:58pm

re: #415 Abu Al-Poopypants

Smartass. ;p

418 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:51:07pm

re: #411 Sharmuta

Then just post the link- because it's all phone numbers.

I'll respectfully disagree, but refrain from posting phone numbers. To the point of the matter, I find it strange that at 11:00 a.m. their Moscow office phone system does not answer or pick up.

So the chain starts at these internet vids, goes to ESWinner, goes to Winner and Associates, gets to AkinGump, AxelRod is listed as a lawyer, AkinGump has a lobbying committee, has offices in China, Moscow and D.C. Moscow doesn't pick up their phone ... maybe no one is home. Maybe to busy advising Obama (maybe, just speculating).

419 Racer X  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:51:08pm

re: #414 Wendya

Obama needs him. Axelrod created Obama.

Now I'm wondering about an Ayers / Axelrod link.

420 fmfnavydoc  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:51:19pm

Someone has edited Axelrod's Wikipedia entry

Alexrod's Wikipedia entry

They are trying to cover their tracks...

421 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:51:42pm

re: #415 Abu Al-Poopypants

Bell/AT&T actually set up that number in area codes where it wasn't already in use, so that people dialing it would get something besides "This number is not in service", and new customers wouldn't accidentally get it.

422 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:52:20pm

Wait until Justice gets involved and subpoenas Winner's phone records.

I have a feeling that this chump is already really hosed. This is serious business. If it ultimately traces directly back to Obama's campain, then his chances of election drop to zero.

423 Celtic Templar  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:53:33pm

re: #420 fmfnavydoc

Someone has edited Axelrod's Wikipedia entry

Alexrod's Wikipedia entry

They are trying to cover their tracks...

That's where I knew the name - he was John F. ("the brothers are running the city now") Street's advisor.

Slimey to the core.

424 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:53:43pm

How am I supposed to sleep with all this going on?

425 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:53:54pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Knock it off with the phone numbers, guys.I think it's ok to post a link to the numbers and adresses but don't cut and paste them here. It causes problems for the Big Lizard Upstairs.

So, is it just about high noon on the islands?

426 abolitionist  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:54:05pm

Wikipedia entries are fairly up to date on this story:
2008 baby milk scandal

Melamine

427 x-wing  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:54:17pm

ok I just spent the last ten minutes trying to get an account on youtube. Once I got a good sceen name they kept rejecting me in the typed "word", once I got that right(I guess) they said the screen name was taken. Are they rejecting new accounts now?

428 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:54:34pm

re: #415 Abu Al-Poopypants

867-5309
(testing)

You shouldn't be posting Jenny's number here like that.

/

429 JacksonTn  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:55:52pm

This video just up at youtube pushing the jawa site:

430 ShortBald&Potbellied  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:55:59pm

re: #406 Sharmuta

You can't post phone numbers- it's in the rules at the top of every thread.

Argh. I didn't see it when I quoted the original.

My original comment:
Why does AkinGump ring a bell?

431 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:56:08pm

re: #428 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Maybe Jenny asked him to.

432 Mr. Sandman  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:56:09pm

I don't think there's anything solid here to connect this to the Obama campaign, just flimsy and convoluted "evidence" plus your fervent hate of Obama and desire to see him politically damaged, mixed together into this concoction of an elaborate under-the-radar conspiracy, ordered and directed by the evil Obama, to cruelly harm precious, innocent Sarah. A far-fetched tale for a reasonable person to accept, but one you, ironically enough, hope to smear Obama with.

But I just wanted to point out a sample of an egregious double standard in how you folks treat of Saint Sarah vs. Obama. About the Alaskan Independence Party "lie." Yes, Palin was not a member of that party, but her husband was a member for a number of years, and she attended at least one convention, perhaps another as recently as 2006, and in fact earlier this year warmly addressed the convention by video. To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.

433 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:57:04pm

re: #425 Opilio

Yeah, just about lunch time. It's cloudy today so I'm hanging around the house instead of the beach.

434 kynna  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:57:59pm

re: #416 Opilio

To toss Axelrod would be to admit malfeasance at too high a level in the campaign. Won't happen.

If Axelrod is strongly connected to this, I don't see how Obama can keep him. He won't be 'the Axelrod he knew'. And I think Axelrod would leave of his own volition rather than cause a distraction to the campaign. The extra scrutiny would hamper his efforts at the very least.

The guy's a rat. Just 'cause he's under the bus doesn't mean he won't still be driving it in some way or another.

435 victor_yugo  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:58:12pm

re: #429 JacksonTn

This video just up at youtube pushing the jawa site:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Yeah, baby!

436 Opilio  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:58:57pm

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

We got us a live one!!!!!

437 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:59:28pm

"We're gonna need a bigger bus."

438 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:59:44pm

re: #431 victor_yugo

Maybe Jenny asked him to.

Well, it's possible. I heard her number was up on a wall, with the message saying "FOR A GOOD TIME CALL"...

439 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 21, 2008 11:59:58pm

I'm headed down to the dock to pick up a fish for lunch. Y'all have a nice night.

440 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:00:10am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.

Wonder who'd be more hateful? The Alaskan sececcionists on their worst day or Rev. Wright and his congregation on their best day?

/Hope you're not too attatched to any of those book-banning, creationist-pushing, bikini pic photoshopping, subordinate-firing strawmen.

441 Gearhead  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:00:12am

re: #418 Celtic Templar

....I find it strange that at 11:00 a.m. their Moscow office phone system does not answer or pick up...

Vodka break.

Off to bed. Can't wait to wake up and see what sort of havoc this has wrought.

442 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:00:30am

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Bye Killgore- have fun and I hope we see you soon.

443 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:01:45am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.

And Jeremiah Wright is, what exactly?

444 Racer X  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:02:31am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward


With a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding.

Blip noted.

What else ya got?

You gonna start picking on those in Hawaii that want to secede?

445 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:02:44am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.

The Fascist Tool Barack Obama has ties to the Weather Underground's Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, actual domestic terrorists, and the MSM won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. Not to mention the connections his associates have with all kinds of Third World tinpot dictators and thugs.

And you call the AIP "extremists"? Get a life.

If the AIP were a "blip" on our radar, then Barack Obama would be the gigantic spaceship that blew up the White House in "Independence Day".

446 Celtic Templar  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:02:44am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

Is that what the S stands for in Ethan S. Winner? Sandman?

447 Wendya  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:03:21am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

snip

My name is David Axelrod and I approve this message.

448 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:03:32am

re: #446 Celtic Templar

Is that what the S stands for in Ethan S. Winner? Sandman?

"Ethan Schweiner"

449 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:03:57am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

Registered since: Jul 8, 2007 at 6:38 pm
No. of comments posted: 5

Which Winner are you?

450 neocon hippie  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:04:24am

re: #434 kynna

If there's shown to be an Axelrod connection, Obama's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't as far as keeping him on the campaign. Axelrod's the brainchild behind the campaign, is he not? Dumping him at this stage of the game would damage the campaign's credibility and 0bama's much-vaunted "judgment" almost as much as dumping Biden would.

451 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:04:42am

re: #449 Sharmuta

Which Winner are you?

Please. This one's an EPIC FAIL, not a win.

452 hazzyday  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:05:21am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

I don't hate Obama that is your projection of how you like to color the world. I do distrust Obama. I don't think he can be a president and provide jobs, democracy, or apple pie.

453 hazzyday  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:08:32am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

Gov Palin talked to all the political parties in her state. Your blinded by your hate.

454 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:09:05am

The DNC-Soros-Media Complex isn't going to do anything with this. Obambi's association with cop-killing terrorists doesn't get a mention, never mind anonymous operatives dicking around on Youtube. It's the Limbaughs, Ingrahams and Hannitys that are going to have to get the word out

455 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:09:14am

re: #453 hazzyday

Gov Palin talked to all the political parties in her state. Your blinded by your hate.

Would that include the CPUSA?

456 A Balrog of Morgoth  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:10:56am

It might be time for another application of Nakema's Rolled-up Newpaper.

Astroturf your way back to DailyKos, Sandy.

457 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:11:04am

re: #453 hazzyday

Gov Palin talked to all the political parties in her state. Your blinded by your hate.

Sounds like sandman must have gotten a copy of the talking points coloring book that Obama's folks hand out a every rally...

458 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:11:54am

re: #450 neocon hippie

If there's shown to be an Axelrod connection, Obama's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't as far as keeping him on the campaign. Axelrod's the brainchild behind the campaign, is he not? Dumping him at this stage of the game would damage the campaign's credibility and 0bama's much-vaunted "judgment" almost as much as dumping Biden would.


Isn't Axlerodtool the same spokestool who came out with the oh-so-witty and effective "Palin's convention speech was written by Bush's speechwriter" rejoinder last month?

Let's see.....what could be more disturbing? A VP candidate who read from a speech prepared by one of W's speechwriters or a presidential candidate who's good buds with an unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist (and was pimping the bio of his bomb-making days on 9/11/01) and has (or had until a few months ago) a vicious, condescending hate-filled bigot as his spiritual advisor?

I can name at least two police officers who were murdered by Ayer's friends. And I don't neccecarily mean people Ayers had fleeting Acquanitences with them in his Weathermen days....I mean he raised their kid when the law finally caught up to them.

459 Syrah  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:13:00am

re: #449 Sharmuta

Registered since: Jul 8, 2007 at 6:38 pm
No. of comments posted: 5

Which Winner are you?

Something roused it from under its bridge.

The Obamaton network must have caught wind of this and woke him up.

460 Arbalest  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:13:05am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman
Perhaps you have a point, but how can you be certain that your facts aren't really just astroturf?

The link to astroturfing by the Winners breaks and in about an hour all of their videos disappear. Certainly makes them look guilty.

The link includes evidence of links to Mr. Axelrod, seemingly the inventor of astroturfing, who in turn has links to Barak Hussein Obama.

So, how do you know that the information the Obama campaign has given you is complete or even mostly truthful?

Even if they tell you it's true and complete, how can you be certain?

Please keep in mind BHO's decades-long associations with Rezko (home acquisition specialist), Wright (racist whackjob) and Ayres (doctrinaire Marxist and maker of bombs), and of course, Axelrod himself, the Astroturf King.

461 Wendya  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:13:06am

re: #445 victor_yugo

And you call the AIP "extremists"? Get a life.

In 1990, Walter Hickle ran and won the Governorship of Alaska on the AIP ticket.

As a resident of NM, I can attest that politics do indeed make strange bedfellows. There's just something about large states with small populations and screwy politics.

462 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:13:26am

Fenway.... Are you a Michelle McPhee listener?

463 Racer X  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:13:35am

I wish John McCain was a better man. He has his faults - like we all do.

But you know what? I really wish Barack Obama was a better man. I wish he truly was a simple community organizer who worked his way up through American politics. I wish he had made a name for himself through hard work and accomplishments.

I wish he did not have so many ties to radical leftists and communists. I wish he was not the most leftist politician in America. I wish he did not have so much baggage, so many people he has had to distance himself from. And now here is another.

I wish I could vote for Obama, I really do. But I cannot.

464 Ledger1  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:13:41am

VIDEO ON JAWA is no longer available?

[Link: [Link: www.youtube.com...]...]

Video has been removed by the user!

Rusty must have struck a nerve – or possibly Winner & Associates may have crossed over the legal threshold into the illegal zone.

465 talon_262  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:14:28am

re: #415 Abu Al-Poopypants

Ol' Tommy Tutone's gonna be pissed that you're stealing Jenny's number...

;-P

466 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:14:49am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

I don't think there's anything solid here to connect this to the Obama campaign, just flimsy and convoluted "evidence" plus your fervent hate of Obama and desire to see him politically damaged, mixed together into this concoction of an elaborate under-the-radar conspiracy, ordered and directed by the evil Obama, to cruelly harm precious, innocent Sarah. A far-fetched tale for a reasonable person to accept, but one you, ironically enough, hope to smear Obama with.

But I just wanted to point out a sample of an egregious double standard in how you folks treat of Saint Sarah vs. Obama. About the Alaskan Independence Party "lie." Yes, Palin was not a member of that party, but her husband was a member for a number of years, and she attended at least one convention, perhaps another as recently as 2006, and in fact earlier this year warmly addressed the convention by video. To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

Thanks for showing us how the Obama camp intends to spin this, bozo.

467 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:15:06am

re: #462 Abu Al-Poopypants


Not familiar with her- care to bring me up to speed?

468 allahakchew  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:15:09am

Looks like Rusty hit a nerve, the eswinner youtube has been deleted.
David Axelrod's wiki has also been in editing stage.
If someone has nothing to hide, why is this happening?
Never fear though, the Jawa's have copies....
Obama, you have some splaining to do!

469 hazzyday  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:15:15am

re: #455 victor_yugo

The Vid I saw of you she was inclusive of all Alaskans expressing their political opinions. She's a Republican that is for voting and being informed. She doesn't mind if Democrats vote in elections

470 capitalist piglet  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:15:53am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman


Allow me to translate:

I don't think hope and pray there's anything nothing solid here to connect this to the Obama campaign, and that the MSM will present it as just flimsy and convoluted "evidence" plus your fervent hate of Obama and desire to see him politically damaged, mixed together into this concoction of an elaborate under-the-radar conspiracy, ordered and directed by the evil Obama, to cruelly harm precious, innocent Sarah.

You could have saved us all time by just saying, "Nothing to see here, move along."

The connection seems pretty obvious to me, but I'll give you this much: A guy who's passive-aggressive and crafty enough to get away with publicly flipping off Hillary Clinton, distorting and hiding his relationships with radicals, and making reference to Sarah Palin as a "pig" will probably get away with this too. Be happy!

471 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:17:08am

re: #463 Racer X

I wouldn't vote for the fool/tool even if he didn't have those issues.

I simply think it is very telling of the state of the Dem party, that this is the man (?!?) they hold up as their best candidate for the Presidency.

472 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:17:27am

Fenway_Nation, she has a Boston talk show in the evening. She used to be a crime beat reporter and has an affinity for the cops, so even though she's a lefty she's all over the Obama/Ayers thing, always pointing out that Obambi's buddy was the guy who made the bombs that the WU used to kill cops.

473 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:18:05am

432 Sandman

To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.


LOL
We tried that once, here in the South.
It was called the Confederacy.
We even had flags, rally's, and started a civil war at Fort Sumter.
The Alaskan Confederacy is gonna rise again.

Yeah,
Shit floats.

474 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:18:09am

re: #469 hazzyday

The Vid I saw of you

You did not see a vid of me.

475 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:19:42am

re: #473 ibmkeyboard

Shit floats.

Not mine.

476 Summersong  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:20:11am

Interesting evening.

Can't wait to catch up with more on this story in the morning.

477 allahakchew  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:20:29am

e: #432 Mr. Sandman

Sorry for this outburst but ROFLMAO.

You seriously need a better story than that.

478 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:20:42am

I gotta say, as far as drivebys go, I think Mr Sandstrawman's was the equivalent of a '77 Gremlin with no muffler rolling up, a single shot fired from a kid's cap gun with all the windows rolled up and the gears getting ground up pretty good in a futile and lame attempt to speed away to Kosland or HuffPo to tell the cool kids how he sure showed the right-wingers at LGF a thing or two with his mad intranet sillz LOl!11

479 Racer X  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:20:51am

re: #471 victor_yugo

I wouldn't vote for the fool/tool even if he didn't have those issues.

I simply think it is very telling of the state of the Dem party, that this is the man (?!?) they hold up as their best candidate for the Presidency.

I am outraged, OUTRAGED that this is the best candidate the Democrat party can put forth. It's irresponsible!

Weak, weak, weak.

All hopium, and no substance.

480 A Balrog of Morgoth  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:21:03am

From Wikipedia (Yeah, I know, but if this entry is what is posted after what was sure to have been a concerted effort to make them look as bad as possible....)

The Alaskan Independence Party is a political party in the U.S. state of Alaska that advocates a state vote which includes several options, including increased state autonomy, territorial status, becoming a separate nation or commonwealth state, and, failing that, for increased Alaskan control of Alaskan land, gun rights, privatization, home schooling, and reduction of governmental intrusion in the private lives of its citizens with adherence to the founding documents of the United States. The party has appeared on the ballot in Alaska in all state elections since 1970.

At other times, party members have also proposed that the state explore the possibility of joining Canada. Other members have expressed opposition to joining Canada in its present form but are open to the possibility of joining an independent Western Canadian state comprising the Yukon and Northwest Territories. Neither of these scenarios form part of the party's current platform.

At the national level, the party is affiliated with the conservative Constitution Party.

Wow, that is some gobsmackingly vile radical anti-Americanism stuff there. A little outside the mainstream, to be sure, but nor barking moonbat crazy like the astroturfers from Teleprompter Jesus's Cult of Creepy Toddlers.

Survey says: Sandman is just repeating what he was told to repeat in the Action Alert.

481 hazzyday  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:21:23am

re: #474 victor_yugo

Darn I was sure it was you there.

482 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:21:56am

re: #475 victor_yugo

Not mine.

HA

Yeah,
mine has been sinking also,
must be Iron Poor Blood.

483 Racer X  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:22:41am

re: #478 Fenway_Nation

*pop*


LOL!

484 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:23:19am

highly successful grassroots
outreach effort that led to one of the largest coalitions in California history. As Election
Day approached, supporting third party groups executed a major viral email program to
their members. The coalition was also featured in earned media events to raise awareness
of the measure.[Link: www.wmcampaigns.com...]


so third party is different from this ad, is it because it wasn't expalined as third party?

485 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:23:19am

re: #481 hazzyday

Darn I was sure it was you there.

Not sure WTF you're talking about.

I asked a question for clarification, and you're turning it into a stalking attempt on me.

Put up, shut up, or FOAD.

486 JacksonTn  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:24:22am

Its going out there:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

487 hazzyday  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:25:48am

re: #485 victor_yugo

Not sure WTF you're talking about.

I asked a question for clarification, and you're turning it into a stalking attempt on me.

Put up, shut up, or FOAD.

Nah I just rang your bell. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. PIMF. Sometimes I make a typo. Just overlook it and you'll be fine.

488 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:29:08am

"if the allegations are true, the Winner boys are going to look pretty stupid with their nuts nailed to their forehead."

LMAO!

Some of those Freepers can really turn a phrase!

489 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:29:14am

Lord Obama's a nasty assclown?

/tell me something I don't already know

490 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:30:00am
At the national level, the party is affiliated with the conservative Constitution Party.


We would never let them join the Confederacy.

Probably use paint ball guns.

491 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:30:43am

The update on the article speaks for itself:

UPDATE: Within an hour of this post going up, YouTube videos implicating Ethan Winner were yanked, sockpuppet accounts deleted, and more importantly, the Wikipedia entry on David Axelrod began to edit out mentions of his well know astroturfing campaigns. Hmmm, it sounds to me like we're on to something.

492 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:30:51am

"Winner"?

More like, LA-HOO-ZA-HER

493 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:31:23am

re: #472 Abu Al-Poopypants

Hadn't heard of her, but sounds good.

The two cops in question were Ed O'Grady and Waverly Brown of the Nyack, NY Police department- this was immediately after a violent Brinks armoured truck robbery in 1981 that left one of the armoured truck guards dead and the other seriously wounded [Ironically, he recovered and continued to work for Brinks for another 19 years before being killed in the attacks on 9/11/01].

Correct me if my math is off, but hadn't the US withdrawn from Vietnam by 1981?

The kid in question is Chesa Boudin- who Ayers dutifully raised to become a red diaper baby and, disgustingly, won a Rhodes scholarship in 2002. Chesa's mother was driving one of the getaway vehicles (a U-haul) and played a pivotal role in Brown and O'Grady's death by convincing the officers manning a roadblock that she wasn't the person they were looking for so that the policemen would holster their weapons before her accomplices opened up with automatic rifles from the back of the U-Haul.

494 Egfrow  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:32:40am

Only one party's constituents are willing to chant "USA, USA" in front of international cameras.

495 JacksonTn  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:33:03am

This is up at google videos. How do you tell who uploaded?

496 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:34:16am

re: #491 victor_yugo
wow!
so we know they read jawa lgf, and freerepublic even at night! kinda funny, and shows how much they fear this forum.

497 RTLM  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:35:13am

All this new red meat courtesy of Sparack Spobama and Spavid Spaxlerod. Not to mention Spwinner and Spassociates.

I likes mah red meat.

(saw it somewhere else - had to do it)

498 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:35:15am

re: #491 victor_yugo

UPDATE: Within an hour of this post going up, YouTube videos implicating Ethan Winner were yanked, sockpuppet accounts deleted, and more importantly, the Wikipedia entry on David Axelrod began to edit out mentions of his well know astroturfing campaigns. Hmmm, it sounds to me like we're on to something.


We need to follow/drive them into the Alaskan Arctic Circle.

Axelrod will have to get a job selling refrigerators to the Eskimos.

499 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:35:37am

THIS JUST IN . . .

/he's a hard core socialist too

500 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:35:40am

many jerks climbing out of bed to sweep up . this is fun. is this how Throbbing memo went down?

501 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:35:56am

I'm out-it's way past my bedtime here on the East coast.

502 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:39:18am

re: #495 JacksonTn
comments button

503 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:40:47am

I'm hoping someone was able to save a few copies of the Axeltool videos before they went down the memory-hole....

504 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:42:26am

re: #503 Fenway_Nation they are still up re jackson tn, is that rusty- jawa

how long will it hold

505 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:44:25am

re: #501 Abu Al-Poopypants

I'm out-it's way past my bedtime here on the East coast.

Yeah me too,
I got up to take an Axelrod.

Hey it flushed.


/later

506 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:45:04am

re: #503 Fenway_Nation

It's still up at google.

507 JacksonTn  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:46:23am

re: #502 willowone

comments button

thanks but I can't see who uploaded it. when I went to comments all I see is one comment but cannot locater user who uploaded

508 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:47:02am

So, does Lord Obama think astroturfing is a winning strategy?

/voters will still vote, 60.000 for Palin at The Villages will tell you that

509 Ledger1  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:53:46am

How may Whiners and Axelrods does it take to keep the Astroturf Bus going?

The answer is 57.

One, to make the “Sarah Palin, A heart beat Away from the Presidency”

One to make the “Sarah Palin: A Heartbeat Away”

One to make the “Sarah Palin September 11 Speech”

One to make the “Sara Palin Gibson Interview”

One to take the four ads down before the Feds close in.

One to scrub the evidence from the DU and Daily Kos

One to remind Obama how many of the 57 states the ad has been shown.

50 advisers to spin the whole mess to the MSM talking heads.

510 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:57:47am

re: #508 Killian Bundy

So, does Lord Obama think astroturfing is a winning strategy?

/voters will still vote, 60.000 for Palin at The Villages will tell you that

LOL

I sing better drunk than Joe Blow.

Rof

511 fmfnavydoc  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 12:58:24am

Looks like ASK (Axelrod's consulting firm) was signed on by the University of Chicago Medical Center for some “PR” work…

WAPO Article September 3, 2008

Care to guess who works at UofC Medical Center….Michelle Obama!

512 rednaxela  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:00:35am

re: #508 Killian Bundy

The Village event was impressive, not only due to the crowd size. I only saw the Youtube videos but I am very happy that Palin is developing her stump speech rather than simply recycling her RNC speech. She seemed more comfortable than on previous occasions on the stump and I think this bodes well going forward.

513 gmsc  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:00:44am

The way the Dems freak out over the Republican vice-presidential seems almost reminiscent of how a friend of mine reacts when you mention his ex-wife.

He started out as a Republican. In the first two national elections, he voted for Reagan. He had a good job, a loving wife (or so he thought at the time), invested in the stock market (hey, it was the '80s! You couldn't lose in the market!), and everything seemed perfect.

Then came black Monday (1987). That seemed to start everything falling apart. He lost most of his portfolio, then his company let him go. As his money dwindled, his wife left him. She was able to get a divorce in her favor easily, as she knew that he didn't have the money to fight it.

He began to turn bitter at this time, and even began voting Democrat (which he does to this day). He tried, and eventually succeeded, in tracking down his ex-wife and her new husband. He attacked his ex-wife's new husband, and narrowly avoided going to jail, since they felt sorry for him, and didn't press charges.

For a long time afterward, he seemed to go crazy everytime someone mentioned his ex-wife's name, and he would attack the person that said it!

Eventually, as he got help, and as the '90s were winding up, the effect seemed to dwindle.

While talking with him recently, he said things seemed to be getting even worse, as he was starting to attack people when hearing his ex-wife's first name again, and that it was happening more frequently, especially in the last few weeks.

I asked him why he thought it was happening more frequently in recent weeks. He replied, "Oh, that's simple. It's because my ex-wife has the same first name as John McCain's vice-president."

"Sarah?" I asked.

"Sarah! That's the name! Slooowly I turn . . . step by step . . . inch by inch . . .


(OK, I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist.)

514 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:01:11am

What's interesting is the same fallacy that the msm and left were saying about Sarah being too honest with her yahoo account have come back to bite their friends in the ass.

Who the hell tries to spread an underground web smear campaign using information that so closely resembles their real name, age, etc.?

515 rednaxela  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:01:17am

re: #511 fmfnavydoc

In what capacity does she work there? Anyone know?

516 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:02:38am

re: #508 Killian Bundy

So, does Lord Obama think astroturfing is a winning strategy?

/voters will still vote, 60.000 for Palin at The Villages will tell you that


his speeches prove he has a lot of dead brain cells.

and a drunk shit one heart beat from the President.

517 rednaxela  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:03:05am

re: #513 gmsc

You have weird friends.

518 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:03:41am

re: #515 rednaxela

In what capacity does she work there? Anyone know?

Probably a lawyer.

/whatever it is she gets like 300K/year

519 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:03:45am

re: #511 fmfnavydoc

Is she in a position where she could sign Axeltool's 'PR' firm?

520 gmsc  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:03:59am

re: #517 rednaxela

You have weird friends.

They're often accused of the same thing. ;)

521 JacksonTn  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:06:58am

Day by Day Cartoon on this already:

[Link: www.daybydaycartoon.com...]

its getting out there fast

522 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:07:28am

re: #515 rednaxela

In what capacity does she work there? Anyone know?

Bad assumption.

523 fmfnavydoc  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:07:58am

Vice President for Community and External Affairs starting in 2005...maybe referred Axelrod to the CEO/COO when they were looking for help with their project...

524 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:08:47am

re: #521 JacksonTn

The punchline is PERFECT:

"I hate Illinois Nazis."

Who knew John Belushi was a prophet?

525 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:08:53am

re: #518 Killian Bundy
wasnt that after a 1 million grant to the hospital> that Michelle got a great raise?

526 gmsc  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:09:04am

re: #513 gmsc
I asked him why he thought it was happening more frequently in recent weeks. He replied, "Oh, that's simple. It's because my ex-wife has the same first name as John McCain's vice-president."

"Sarah?" I asked.

"Sarah! That's the name! Slooowly I turn . . . step by step . . . inch by inch . . .


(OK, I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist.)

BTW, for those who didn't get this, see this video or this video for a fuller explanation.

527 JacksonTn  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:10:11am

Also here:

[Link: www.riehlworldview.com...]

Hope this gets legs tomorrow.

528 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:11:15am

Biden finally got 5 stars.

529 rp1138  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:11:27am

For the record, Rush Limbaugh has stated that LGF is one of the blogs that he uses for show prep. I bet he'll see this story first thing in the morning..

530 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:14:46am

Greta profiling Biden now.

/he's a Catholic, just like Nancy Pelosi is

531 JacksonTn  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:15:25am

Damn one last post before I go to bed. I just searched google

axelrod pr firm

comes up front page

[Link: www.sodahead.com...]

532 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:17:57am

Interesting- one of Winner & Associates clients is Exxon. Don't think Exxon is a big fan of Governor Palin. Just interesting....

533 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:18:06am

[Link: www.daybydaycartoon.com...]

We are on a mission from God.

YO

534 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:19:02am

looks like eswinner acct is now closed

535 TheMatrix31  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:20:02am

Business is picking up!

536 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:21:02am

So (without reading the whole thread perhaps I can get a simple answer) does somebody get arrested/indicted for this?

/because what's another scandal between friends?

537 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:22:35am

re: #536 littleoldlady

So (without reading the whole thread perhaps I can get a simple answer) does somebody get arrested/indicted for this?

/because what's another scandal between friends?

Arrested, indicted, arraigned, tried, convicted, tarred, feathered, and ridden out on a rail!

/one can hope

538 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:24:55am

re: #537 victor_yugo

So laws were broken?

/not that it matters in America, or anything...

539 ibmkeyboard  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:25:52am

re: #537 victor_yugo

Arrested, indicted, arraigned, tried, convicted, tarred, feathered, and ridden out on a rail!

/one can hope

lol
/can we have some fruit cup with a touch of Joe Biden Vodka please.

540 victor_yugo  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:27:18am

re: #538 littleoldlady

So laws were broken?

Without proper disclaimers in the spots, in all likelihood.

Without proper filings with the FEC regarding "donations in kind" (at the very least), yes.

541 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:28:22am

re: #539 ibmkeyboard

ibm! :-)

Times are rough. I've been hording the vodka along with the chocolate.

/you're on your own, buddy!

542 Canadian Guy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:29:09am

the winner youtube accounts are closed.

543 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:29:12am

re: #530 Killian Bundy

I'm what one would call the 'Easter-Christmas' variety of Catholic. However, I went last week.

Generally, the homilies are fairly apolitical. However, they very much took exception to Pelosi's public stance on abortion being passed off as Church Doctrine. In the clearest and most unambiguous manner possible.

544 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:30:35am

re: #540 victor_yugo

Okay. Thanks, victor! :-)

to me it sounds like a slap on the wrist is coming, but what do I know...?

545 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:31:30am

So I googled "Justyn Winner" and found that you can send contributions to this tax exempt org- American for the Protection of Free Speech. They're a civil liberties group. Bet they don't give a rat's ass about Sarah's liberties being violated.

546 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:33:01am

You oughta know . . .

/what's on Sarah's IPod?

547 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:47:50am

re: #538 littleoldlady

So laws were broken?

/not that it matters in America, or anything...

Here lol- Independent expenditure

548 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:48:24am

Sarah Palin wears Naughty Monkey Double Dare Pumps.

/What the [expletive deleted] are you going to do about it?

549 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:51:17am

re: #547 Sharmuta

Sharmuta! :-)

Now, let's see if someone is actually punished.

/not holding my breath...

550 CapitalistTool  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:58:04am

re: #2 victor_yugo

Send to Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, stat!

(I expect Rush has already picked it up.)

I see Michelle Malkin picked it up. :)

551 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 1:58:53am

re: #541 littleoldlady

ibm! :-)

Times are rough. I've been hording the vodka along with the chocolate.

/you're on your own, buddy!

And just when I'm outta pain pills, too....

552 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:00:01am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet ----------------------->
Help yourselves!

553 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:00:13am

*is patiently waiting for some of that sweet, juicy, astroturf-grown fruitcup that'll be appearing in a moment or so*

554 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:00:40am

TnTx13! :-)

Bon appetit! ;-)

555 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:02:26am

Fenway! :-)

556 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:02:49am

Mmmm! Astroturf-grown fruitcup is like manna from heaven...

/or is it?

557 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:03:02am

Yay, my first fruitcup! Excellent. Thanks, LoL!

558 redc1c4  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:03:16am

re: #541 littleoldlady

ibm! :-)

Times are rough. I've been hording the vodka along with the chocolate.

/you're on your own, buddy!

that's okay: i took all the fruitcups, mixed them with some sugar and yeast, and then fired up the still.......

/fruitjuice cups!

559 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:03:53am

re: #558 redc1c4

that's okay: i took all the fruitcups, mixed them with some sugar and yeast, and then fired up the still.......

/fruitjuice cups!

Yummy!

560 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:05:11am

I wonder if you can drill for oil through astroturf?

/Drill here, drill now, etc., etc...

561 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:06:33am

Fat Jolly Penguin! :-)

Howdy!

562 redc1c4  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:07:50am

re: #560 TnTx13

I wonder if you can drill for oil through astroturf?

/Drill here, drill now, etc., etc...

Ol' Bill claims he used to drill on astroturf all the time......

/white smoke

563 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:08:13am

re: #561 littleoldlady

Hi! Never been much of a night person -- good to meet you.

564 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:08:58am

re: #562 redc1c4

Ol' Bill claims he used to drill on astroturf all the time......

/white smoke

Oh yeah - in a pickup truck, IIRC ;)

565 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:10:56am

re: #557 Fat Jolly Penguin

Yay, my first fruitcup! Excellent. Thanks, LoL!

Excellent- you even dinged it. Good job!

566 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:11:35am

re: #564 TnTx13

Oh yeah - in a pickup truck, IIRC ;)

/El Camino

567 Syrah  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:13:04am

Well its been fun tonight.

I hope this all sticks.

I don't know why we would have thought that a politician spawned from the Chicago Democrat Machine would run a clean campaign, . . .

.
.
.

Tomorrow's dinner is prepared and ready to go.

I chopped, sliced and diced up a cup of garlic, 2 cups of onions, 2 cups of carrots, 2 cups of celery and tossed them into the crock pot with 3 pounds of roast and 2 cups of whole mushrooms. (Big crock pots are good.) Like WC Fields, I like to cook with wine and I even pored some of it into the crock pot. Its all topped off with a heavy dusting of Paprika and sage. All that I will have to do is plug it in and turn it on to cook for ten hours at 9am Monday morning, a mere 7 hours from now. (Dang its late.)

Yum.

Can hardly wait to dinner tomorrow.

Goodnight all.

Be good.

568 akak  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:13:17am

Chinese market up 8%, I guess they might be getting some of that $1.8 trillion or whatever that number comes in at?

569 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:14:09am

I'm listening to my DVR'd (is that a verb?) Fox News Sunday and my head is about to explode. If The Messiah actually wins and therefore is in control of pretty much everything in this country, I propose that we lizards move to Alaska and THEN get Sarah Palin to support Alaskan independence....

570 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:14:15am

Okay, this is an incredible piece of investigative work by Rusty Shackleford, and I congratulate him on his great work! :-)

BUT! (she said) this is just another of a long string of "irregularities" perpetrated by the Obama camp. There was the strong-arming during the caucuses, the more-than-questionable foreign donations, the blackmailing of the Jews the other day, the compliciot (thank you BabbaZee) media, the ACORN voter registration fraud, and...what have I missed?!

This isn't a political campaign - it's a case study in racketeering.

And if Obama wins he's going to get away with all of it...

/sorry. :-/

571 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:15:05am

re: #567 Syrah

Well its been fun tonight.

I hope this all sticks.

I don't know why we would have thought that a politician spawned from the Chicago Democrat Machine would run a clean campaign, . . .

.
.
.

Tomorrow's dinner is prepared and ready to go.

I chopped, sliced and diced up a cup of garlic, 2 cups of onions, 2 cups of carrots, 2 cups of celery and tossed them into the crock pot with 3 pounds of roast and 2 cups of whole mushrooms. (Big crock pots are good.) Like WC Fields, I like to cook with wine and I even pored some of it into the crock pot. Its all topped off with a heavy dusting of Paprika and sage. All that I will have to do is plug it in and turn it on to cook for ten hours at 9am Monday morning, a mere 7 hours from now. (Dang its late.)

Yum.

Can hardly wait to dinner tomorrow.

Goodnight all.

Be good.

Hope you made enough for all of us :)

572 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:15:32am
573 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:15:59am

Check out the lazy fat [expletive deleted].

/dissing themselves

574 redc1c4  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:16:51am

re: #569 TnTx13

I'm listening to my DVR'd (is that a verb?) Fox News Sunday and my head is about to explode. If The Messiah actually wins and therefore is in control of pretty much everything in this country, I propose that we lizards move to Alaska and THEN get Sarah Palin to support Alaskan independence....

texas is closer, and the weather is marginally better.

575 Syrah  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:17:48am

re: #571 TnTx13

Hope you made enough for all of us :)

Plenty for all, more than my samll household can eat on its own.

Life is a blessing,

Share in the good times when ever we can.

576 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:18:14am
577 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:18:47am

re: #574 redc1c4

texas is closer, and the weather is marginally better.

Well, it's warmer there :) But I'm pretty sure that it's already spoken for by Mexico, along with New Mexico, Arizona, and SoCal... On the other hand, once a republic, always a republic?

578 Syrah  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:19:15am

re: #575 Syrah

samll = small

With that, I am giving up for the night.

Good night lizards.

579 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:19:45am

re: #578 Syrah

samll = small

With that, I am giving up for the night.

Good night lizards.

Looked OK to me ;)

G'night!

580 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:21:46am

FEC Enforcement

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the Winners could bring this to the attention of the FEC themselves and pay a fine. So- a slap on the wrist is all any group would get for playing dirty like this. That's bullsh*t.

581 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:26:07am

re: #580 Sharmuta

FEC Enforcement

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the Winners could bring this to the attention of the FEC themselves and pay a fine. So- a slap on the wrist is all any group would get for playing dirty like this. That's bullsh*t.

And if I'm not mistaken, most FEC issues don't get resolved for months, if not years, so they probably figure the risk is small and worth it.

582 redc1c4  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:26:24am

re: #580 Sharmuta

FEC Enforcement

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the Winners could bring this to the attention of the FEC themselves and pay a fine. So- a slap on the wrist is all any group would get for playing dirty like this. That's bullsh*t.

which would still require that they admit they did it.....

583 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:27:02am

re: #582 redc1c4

which would still require that they admit they did it.....

That's a good point.

584 redc1c4  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:34:20am

re: #583 Sharmuta

That's a good point.

and on that upbeat note, i'm for bed.....

L8r!

585 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:34:44am

'Enforcement May Vary'

586 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:36:17am

got in very late on this............I waited to let the congestion die down.
Some story. I hope it gets out in a big way.

But has anyone made it THROB?

/wink!

587 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:38:00am

What penalties can the FEC impose for violations of the law?

Most violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) result in civil penalties--fines arrived at through a conciliation process. Knowing and willful violations of certain FECA provisions can lead to imprisonment. The FEC has exclusive civil enforcement authority, and may refer criminal violations to the U.S. Department of Justice. For additional information see our brochure, "Filing a Complaint." Note that sentencing guidelines for criminal violations of the law are set by the U.S. Sentencing Commission.

Lock 'em up!

588 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:41:52am

Good morning, Lizards!

589 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:43:08am

A very late good evening to you Goddess.
Hear about the scandal?

590 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:43:41am

re: #589 IslandLibertarian

A very late good evening to you Goddess.
Hear about the scandal?

Which one?!

591 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:43:43am

re: #587 Sharmuta

Can we get a frogmarch first? /

592 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:46:05am

Here's a pretty brief overview from Malkin.
Worth a look.
The link at the top of this thread is the full story from Jawa Report.

593 TnTx13  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:48:15am

Let's hope something comes of this - but I don't think I'll hold my breath...

Nighty-nite! (and/or Good Morning!)

594 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:49:43am

re: #592 IslandLibertarian

Here's a pretty brief overview from Malkin.
Worth a look.
The link at the top of this thread is the full story from Jawa Report.

I'm reading about it now.

Obama is unacquainted with the concept of honor,

595 galloping granny  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:53:52am

Morning goddess and the rest of you lizards. That is some story up top . . .

596 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:55:03am

re: #594 goddessoftheclassroom

ZerObama told two flat out lies on 60 Minutes tonight falsely quoting McCain on the Iraq War. And the interviewer just let it roll on.

/me, pissed? Ask me how I really fell about "0".

597 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:55:31am

{galloping granny}

Since they can't attack Gov. Palin's substance, they just make stuff up. Yep, these are the people I want running the country...

598 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:59:45am

Yee ha

Corker of a post, Rusty, but I'm still pissed about the bailout legislation.

599 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:02:08am

re: #598 godfrey

Yee ha

Corker of a post, Rusty, but I'm still pissed about the bailout legislation.

Rusty's the Man.

Good morning goddess & godfrey.

600 gkong3  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:02:30am

Ooh, it's been ages since I commented over here but for this story I couldn't resist. If it's on LGF, it'll be all over the blogosphere in hours. And if MM's taken it on, then chances are Fox and Rush will be all over this like a cheap suit.

I'd recommend anyone who's ever successfully contacted good ol' Insty to let him know. From there, it gets on the PJM network, and with all the abovementioned it's all over for Mr BHOmbastic.

This is what I come over to LGF for!

Patterico's helped with this.
Ace is all over this too.
Day by Day is on this.

My God, it's a good time to be a conservative and a Republican! I love this place!

601 galloping granny  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:05:26am

re: #597 goddessoftheclassroom

{galloping granny}

Since they can't attack Gov. Palin's substance, they just make stuff up. Yep, these are the people I want running the country...

Every time I hear Obama put on that oh so fake southern accent that makes him sound more and more like he was born and bred in Mississippi and left just yesterday I am reminded of just how little I trust this man and his cronies to do anything. He is and always has been an outright liar that does not know the meaning of responsibility for anything.

602 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:06:56am

The bailout is swamping the news cycle. Maybe Rusty should've waited on filing this story -- but it's probably also true that there's not going to be a 'best' time. Between now and November all hell's going to break loose.

603 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:08:50am

re: #602 godfrey

Between now and November all hell's going to break loose.

Shhhh! EIDE will hear you and despair.

604 galloping granny  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:10:59am

re: #602 godfrey

The bailout is swamping the news cycle. Maybe Rusty should've waited on filing this story -- but it's probably also true that there's not going to be a 'best' time. Between now and November all hell's going to break loose.

Anybody seen the recent videos of Obama losing it an yelling at his audience? Any opinions? Especially on the "tough guy" vid where he threatens to kick someone's behind.. . . .

605 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:13:14am

I sent a link to Laura Ingraham.
Anyone care to add their request she take a look at this story?
Power in numbers.

Power to the Correct People!

606 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:13:31am

re: #602 godfrey

The bailout is swamping the news cycle. Maybe Rusty should've waited on filing this story -- but it's probably also true that there's not going to be a 'best' time. Between now and November all hell's going to break loose.

/yoy must be watthing CNBC

607 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:14:13am

Great job, Dr. Shackelford, et al.

Looks like these "Winners" are real losers....

608 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:15:33am

re: #603 Sharmuta

Give him a Snickers and tell him to wait till mommy comes home.

What do you think of this bailout legislation? I think it's as close as this country has ever come to dictatorship. If people are OK with it, the hard Left will have a field day and push to make things permanent.

609 galloping granny  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:17:16am

HEHEHE -

Obama staff leaves North Dakota

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — Barack Obama, who has deployed more than 50 staffers in North Dakota in an attempt to become the first Democratic presidential candidate to carry the state since 1964, is pulling out.

An Obama spokeswoman, Amy Brundage, confirmed Sunday that the campaign's North Dakota staffers were being sent to Minnesota and Wisconsin, where recent polls have shown a tight race between Obama and Republican John McCain.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

610 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:21:19am

re: #609 galloping granny


Change, but not alot of hope for 0bama there....

611 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:22:48am

re: #608 godfrey

I haven't read it.

612 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:23:03am

re: #605 IslandLibertarian

I sent it to Politico.

613 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:23:16am

re: #606 Killian Bundy

I haven't seen a music video like that in a long time. What I mean is that now is the time for the campaigns to take the gloves off, etc. The USA is going to do just fine, as long as Lefties don't nationalize huge sectors of the economy, sit in the White House, and pack the courts.

614 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:26:49am

re: #613 godfrey

Which is why this story matters. Anything to get the American people to realize 0bama's a frickin' thug we don't need in the White House is what we need right now.

BTW, Lizards- remember to BUZZ this story. Thank you.

615 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:27:24am

The proposed leg is at

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

at WSJ. Relevant bits:

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.–The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary ... without limitation ... at any time ... be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time [snip]

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

616 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:27:46am

Speaking of 'publicity', I am working out at my local gym her in the Philippines and they have TV's by the treadmills. During my sets I occasionally look up to see what is on. Usually typical crappy local TV and such, but this time an apparent documentary on Iraq and the war was playing.

I stop for a minute and watch. In half a second I could tell it was propaganda of the crappiest nature. I go up to one of the trainers and asked what channel this was. I thought it was CNN here or something...

"No boss, a tenant here gave us the DVD to watch."

"What's the name?" I ask (I was thinking Fahrenheit 9-11)

He says, "Fahr..uh..Mike...Mo..or something."
I then explain how this is propaganda B.S. and how Michael Moore hates freedom and America...MSM, journalism...blah blah blah... The media is the only source of information your average local will be able to see here.

Some 'retired Airforce colonel' or something gave it to him to watch. Proselyting his liberal religion...zealot. Voting Obama...sellout asshat. Idiot fool.

*spit*

617 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:28:26am

re: #614 Sharmuta

Buzz them both, Sharmuta. Obama must love this proposal.

618 sparrowlake  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:30:34am

Good morning LGF.
To buy or not to buy: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous inflation,
Or to take gold against a sea of bubbles,
And by selling end them?

619 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:30:46am

re: #617 godfrey

I mean yahoo Buzz. Right now Hot Air is near the top of the list.

620 Sharmuta  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:31:30am

Top Buzz- from Hot Air.

621 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:35:22am

is [Link: www.winnerandassociates.com...] and conEd in the 80s, was that same time Thomas Aryes was ceo? is that only a slight connection ?

622 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:36:59am

re: #291 realwest

Rusty and his crew have done an awful lot of research, most of which WE still don't know about.

Good point. The Winners don't know how much their network has been compromised. This drastically reduces their effectiveness.

623 yochanan  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:38:11am

when a pol goes and talks about a dirty compaign that is when the pol goes and starts dirty.

624 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:38:14am

Gingrich has alternative proposals:

Four reform steps will have capital flowing with no government bureaucracy and no taxpayer burden.

First, suspend the mark-to-market rule which is insanely driving companies to unnecessary bankruptcy. If short selling can be suspended on 799 stocks (an arbitrary number and a warning of the rule by bureaucrats which is coming under the Paulson plan), the mark-to-market rule can be suspended for six months and then replaced with a more accurate three year rolling average mark-to-market.

Second, repeal Sarbanes-Oxley. It failed with Freddy Mac. It failed with Fannie Mae. It failed with Bear Stearns. It failed with Lehman Brothers. It failed with AIG. It is crippling our entrepreneurial economy. I spent three days this week in Silicon Valley. Everyone agreed Sarbanes-Oxley was crippling the economy. One firm told me they would bring more than 20 companies public in the next year if the law was repealed. Its Sarbanes-Oxley’s $3 million per startup annual accounting fee that is keeping these companies private.

Third, match our competitors in China and Singapore by going to a zero capital gains tax. Private capital will flood into Wall Street with zero capital gains and it will come at no cost to the taxpayer. Even if you believe in a static analytical model in which lower capital gains taxes mean lower revenues for the Treasury, a zero capital gains tax costs much less than the Paulson plan. And if you believe in a historic model (as I do), a zero capital gains tax would lead to a dramatic increase in federal revenue through a larger, more competitive and more prosperous economy.

Fourth, immediately pass an “all of the above” energy plan designed to bring home $500 billion of the $700 billion a year we are sending overseas. With that much energy income the American economy would boom and government revenues would grow.

625 godfrey  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:39:31am

This is a good thread to post a link to Discover the Networks.

626 willowone  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:39:39am

re: #619 Sharmuta, next stroy that frkn Hagel, wish he would get dumped by his state

627 Timbre  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:40:55am

I didn't think it was possible for someone to have a bigger ego than Farrakhan, but this NOI dude thinks the Universe of himself.

628 Killian Bundy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:47:07am

re: #627 Timbre

I didn't think it was possible for someone to have a bigger ego than Farrakhan, but this NOI dude thinks the Universe of himself.

/Bomb 20

629 littleoldlady  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:48:46am

re: #624 godfrey

godfrey! :-)

Three days ago one of the [ahem!] Presidential candidates was screaming, "This is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression!" So what happens? All of a sudden you have a run on (of all things!) money market accounts, to the tune of billions!, and the entire banking system was at risk of collapsing.

I'm not sure the government had a choice here.

By yesterday, that same [ahem!] candidate had changed his tune to, "Oh, we'll get through this..."

/self-censored...

630 Tamron  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:52:39am

re: #43 EIDE_Interface

Well, when you look at how much average credit card debt people have, how so many people live paycheck to paycheck because they never saved, smoke, don't exercise, etc... Why is it a surprise? All the correct behaviors flow from having sense in one's head, including who you vote for.

Hey, I have a friend who resents every one of those lies about him!
.

631 Tamron  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:58:55am

PRITZKER AND DINNERJACKET WILL SAVE US!

Multi-billionnaire Penny Pritzker is hosting Hitler-wannabee Ahmadinejad on Thursday, 25 September at the Grand Hyatt Hotel in NYC. The Grand Hyatt is owned by the Hyatt Corporation, which is owned by H Group Holding, ultimately owned by the Pritzker family. Penny Pritzker, one of 4 major heirs, is also the National Finance Chair/Treasurer of Barack Hussein Obama’s presidential campaign.

In the late 1990's and early 2000 the Pritzker family, Penny in particular, were pioneers in creating a new financial product called the 'subprime mortgage.' When their bank [Chicago's Superior Bank] failed, they ended up owing the government 1/2 billion dollars in unreimbursed FDIC insurance payments.

Clearly Obama’s chief fundraiser could refuse to host Ahmadinejad at her hotel. Instead, she has rolled out the red carpet for him.

Any bets that Obama won't throw either Penny Pritzer or Ahmadinejad under the bus? He needs Pritzker's expertise to advise him on how to raise our taxes, and If he plays his cards right, he might even be able to recruit Dinnerjacket for Chief of Security for his campaign.

He's got the election in the bag.

Heh.
.

632 JustMyView  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:59:11am

re: #626 willowone

, next stroy that frkn Hagel, wish he would get dumped by his state

He's retiring at the end of this session.

633 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:03:36am

Great new comment by Ace:

I would once again stress that this [the account and video deletion] is the best confirmation of everything Rusty alleged... and the stuff he didn't quite allege but we're all thinking is most likely true.

"eswinner" is not sitting at the computer watching right-wing blogs post stories.

"eswinner" does not have a staff vigilantly monitoring the internet for damaging stories.

Neither, for that matter, does Winner & Associates.

But the Barack Obama campaign, headed up by David Astroturf, does.

Barack Obama and the DNC watch this blog. And I've put them on notice since this afternoon that a story about them was coming.

Within an hour of the story being posted, the videos began coming down. Within 90 minutes they were all down.

That's a pretty fast response time. I didn't mention Winner & Associates in my hints. So why would they be on notice?

I only mentioned Axelrod and Obama.

No, I do not believe that a random Winner & Associates employee just happened to be reading the Ace of Spades website and suddenly came across a link to a story about them and then decided to wake the bosses over it.

I believe the Obama campaign and the DNC have been watching since this afternoon. And they put the call into "eswinner" to get those videos down and bury the evidence.

Read the whole thing.

634 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:04:20am

It's the coverup that gets you...

635 de La Valette  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:07:30am

I could make a strong argument that the entire BHO campaign - primary and general has been a positive and negative astroturfing.

I think Mr. Axelrod needs a strong dose of the spotlight.

636 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:12:25am

And if you're a bit more conspiratorially minded, you might wonder about the source for The New York Times story that was the basis for the video...

From The Jawa Report's story:

Who is behind this video against Sarah Palin? It alleges:

Sarah Palin was a member of an Anti-American separatist organization.
It claims that Sarah Palin was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party and cites The New York Times for that source. Then it quotes the founder of that Party with some pretty outrageous statements.
But here's what FactCheck.org says about that:

[Sarah Palin] was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.

And The New York Times was forced to retract their earlier claim that Palin was a member of the party, blaming the error on the party's chair. That retraction was published Sept. 3rd, 8 days before the video was first made publicly available.

637 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:33:18am
638 Tamron  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:46:24am

More, re: Ahmadinejad's multi-billionnaire American hostess Penny Pritzker...

Were Penny Pritzker and Bear Stearns the innovators who founded the predatory subprime business model in 1993, which later turned into the foreclosure tsunami?

In 1988 Jay Pritzker and Alvin Dworman put up $42.5 million for the insolvent Lyons Savings Bank (renamed Superior Bank) in return for an estimated $645 million in federal tax credits and loan guarantees. By one estimate it would have cost the government $200 million less, simply to shut Lyons down.

Jay Pritzker deputized his niece Penny -- a Harvard educated lawyer with an M.B.A. from Stanford -- to help keep tabs on the investment. She served as chairman of Superior from 1989 to 1994, long enough for the bank to regain its financial health and embark on an aggressive new strategy, making high-interest home and auto loans to people with bad credit. For a time that yielded big profits and large dividends.

According to Chicago Magazine, the institution’s failure is “a tale of gross mismanagement,” says George Kaufman, a finance professor at Loyola University Chicago. “[Superior] was engaged in relatively unethical practices, fancy-footwork accounting, playing it very close to the edge.” Kaufman says many share in the blame for the mess -- the bank’s managers, directors, and auditors, as well as banking regulators --but he also wonders how the Pritzkers, as co-owners, could have allowed it to happen. “One of the great mysteries to me is what the Pritzkers were up to, why they took these chances,” he says. “It makes no sense given their wealth and visibility.”

According to USA Today, “Superior was effectively facilitating very sleazy lending,” said Bert Ely, a Washington, D.C., banking consultant who testified before Congress on the Superior failure.

Superior, co-owned by Pritzker family trusts, began focusing on subprime loans in 1993, according to the FDIC Inspector General’s report. At the time Penny Pritzker was the board’s chair. She left the board in 1994 and continued as a director of the bank’s holding company. In 2002 the Pritzkers agreed to pay, through trusts, $460 million in a settlement with the government relieving them of liability.

The FDIC also agreed to pay the Pritzkers 25 percent of any claim won in a lawsuit against Ernst & Young. Since the FDIC is suing for $548 million, the Pritzker share could be $137 million. On top of that, the agreement stated that the Pritzkers get half of any civil penalties from such a lawsuit (after certain agency expenses). The FDIC is asking for triple damages, or $1.64 billion; the Pritzker share could be over $800 million.

Even taking into account the “record” settlement they made with the FDIC, the Pritzkers could make more than $700 million in additional profit for running a financial institution into the ground. They had already profited handsomely, sharing in the more than $200 million in dividends to the owners in the ’90s.

The Pritzker family controlled half of the board seats of the bank’s holding company, which benefited from all that dividend income, and the Pritzker Organization’s chief financial officer, Glen Miller, chaired the bank’s audit committee. Penny stepped down as the bank’s chairman in 1994, but remained as director of its holding company.

According to the FDIC, using “liberal interpretations of accounting principles” Superior was able to “report impressive net income figures that masked the net operating losses the institution was actually experiencing.” Those methods were adopted by many other banks subsequently (Countrywide, WaMu, Wachovia, etc.).

Maybe Obama intends to appoint Pritzker as the next Secretary of the Treasury. She's a role model for raising federal tax credits for the needy.
.

639 tappin52  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 5:08:21am

For those sending this thread to talk radio and TV types, O'Rielly might just be sufficiently ticked off right now after his websight got hacked last week.

640 Tamron  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 5:27:55am

re: #303 ledger1

I wonder if Charles "Chuck" N. Winner President of Winner & Associates was the hatchet man who killed Hillary Clinton's campaign.

It must have been excruciatingly painful for Hill and Bill to be smeared with the label of a racist.

One would think the Clintons knew exactly who was smearing them and would have taken action. But, it’s possible the Obama and Winner & Associates out foxed them.


Any takers on a bet (of lox and bagels, or maybe a fruitcup) that Biden drops out of the race 'for health reasons' the first week in October, to be replaced by sweet innocent Hillary?

That's when the gloves would come OFF...
.

641 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 5:33:06am

I find it a fascinating possibility that Axelrod released the "mysterious and out of nowhere" Rev Wright videos.

Fits his M.O.

I always figured Hillary Op Research did that... but it is intriguing to think that Axelrod used it himself to push Wright away from the campaign (since, it seems they hate each other)... even if there was some damage to the campaign as a result.

/trouble in the Messiah's temple.

642 jpkoch  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:02:21am

It is amazing what out national elections have evolved into. The amount of money devoted to smearing far outwieghs the money spent to brush up on the issues. It is no wonder that the Dems haven't created a coherent thought in 4 decades, as they are totally into public relations and media manipulation.

The is at least a 50/50 chance Obama wins in November. There is a 90% chance that no matter who wins in the WH, the Dems will gain seats in both houses of Congress. I sure hope the American voter knows what they are getting himself into. Can anyone imagine what mischief an Obama-Pelosi-Reid troika can create?

643 RickZ  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:04:10am

re: #36 EIDE_Interface

People with common sense would know how biased the MSM is 10 years ago. That's just par for the course.

Dan Rather, on air, calling the 1996 election for Bill Clinton: "We won!"

644 DaddyG  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:33:33am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

...About the Alaskan Independence Party "lie." Yes, Palin was not a member of that party, but her husband was a member for a number of years, and she attended at least one convention, perhaps another as recently as 2006, and in fact earlier this year warmly addressed the convention by video. To reiterate: this is an extremist, anti-American, secessionist party she and her husband are connected to and friendly toward, and it doesn't even put a blip on your radar.

When Alaskan separatists start utilizing suicide bombers, engaging in holy war or attempting to blow up the US Capitol I will be a bit more worried.

Until that time they are about as radical as the Qebequois separatist movement and only slightly less effective.

645 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:38:43am

re: #25 NY Nana

/Any bets on seeing this in the MSM?

The MSM wasn't interested in their golden boy John Edwards and his long hidden affair with Lisa Druck. - or the baby that came with...

646 FrogMarch  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:39:52am

re: #643 RickZ

Dan Rather, on air, calling the 1996 election for Bill Clinton: "We won!"

Just recently some news hack on CNN said essentially the same thing.

647 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:46:13am

re: #92 EIDE_Interface

You see I understand why older generations don't even want to spend the energy fact-checking. What really gets my gander are people under 30 who swallow the MSM lies. What the hell is their excuse? They were brought up with "question everything", but the don't.

Yeah, like a 26 year old Obama supporter who used to work with me until recently. When I told him the MSM was biased to the Left, he said he didn't believe it, but even if they were, so what, the right-wingers have Fox News.

648 DaddyG  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:47:10am

re: #490 ibmkeyboard

We would never let them join the Confederacy.

Probably use paint ball guns.

IMO - Snowballs or if they really get nasty polar bear droppings

649 BrianA  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 6:49:24am

Don't know if this has already been posted.

Winner & Associates contact info here

650 Bruin  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:00:30am

re: #30 shibumi

I agree.

However- any person with common sense would realize that Sarah Palin doesn't hate rape victims, she didn't ban books, she wasn't a member of the John Birch Society and so on. These are actually unbelievable accusations to a person with common sense. Therein lies the problem. I'm beginning to think about 50% of the nation doesn't have any common sense.

I'm beginning to think about 50% of the nation doesn't have any common sense.

They are called democrats!

Seriously, far too many people get their facts by browsing headlines. Many never go beyond the first paragraph of any news story. After all, why read further, the first paragraph is usually where all the taint resides.

651 Nancy  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:10:34am

re: #432 Mr. Sandman

It has already been pointed out, if you researched the Alaskan Independence Party, they are hardly extremists.

Their "separatist" ideology isn't even a movement TO separate, as someone already pointed less extremist than the same in Quebec. It is more ideological to protect native Alaskan culture, land rights and resource rights.

Maybe if you lived in a state where the federal government has taken ownership of most of the land which certainly limits Alaska from any development, the "separatist ideology" in theory would not seem so strange.

Considering that Alaska also produces 20% of the US oil and sits on the largest reserve which they CANNOT drill because the federal government won't permit it, the feelings behind some native Alaskans might be more widely understood. The AIP has never pursued any course of actually separating.

It has to be remembered that the US acquired Alaska because of the oil reserves. Because it had those natural resources.

It is somewhat arrogant for any of us in the lower 48 to judge what motivates or what the intentions are of Alaskans. There is absolutely NO evidence they are an anti-American, extremist organization. If anything they may be anti-US government policy which poses far more limitations on Alaskan land use and economic development to benefit various special interest groups in the lower 48.

Open your eyes and observe much of the rhetoric that has gone on in the last 3 weeks. A large number of persons don't even consider Alaska as "counting" as a state. The attitude towards Governor Palin has been reflected in the sentiment that Alaska is a "nobody and nowhere."

She has not and never was a member of that group. I am not so sure the way I have seen people in the lower 48 react about Alaska in the last weeks as almost a non-entity, why more don't join the AIP.

No, I am not from Alaska. With the undermining and patronizing mentality towards the state, it strikes me that the real separatists are in the lower 48 who would gladly disconnect from Alaska if they were not sitting on the most natural resources.

There are those in the lower 48 who have separating --disconnected from the state figureatively. The AIP has not even done that much, much less pursued a literal separation.

Who are the real anti-American extremists?

652 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:17:28am
653 Mike McDaniel  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:23:23am

The real question is whether or not George W. Bush has the guts to do his duty and enforce the law.

If he does, there will be a full investigation of these possible campaign finance violations by the FBI...with the goal of being completed no later than five weeks from today.

And if there is cause (which I suspect there is), then Axelrod and Obama get arrested and perp-walked. Bail denied, they are both flight risks.

The law must apply to everybody...including powerful Democrats.

654 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:37:19am
655 kawfytawk  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:37:39am

re: #388 Opilio

I posted that link earlier. It's up to about 20 comments now, up from 0 a couple of hours ago.


Down the memory hole!

656 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:48:52am

re: #633 Dar ul Harb

No "grassroots" poster would take down a post so quickly for having it described as astroturf.

An actual grass roots groupie will dig in his/her heels and stick by it right or wrong. They don't think in terms of having a reputation to defend or avoiding an FEC investigation. Street partisans don't think that way.

657 kawfytawk  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:50:31am

re: #495 JacksonTn

This is up at google videos. How do you tell who uploaded?

[Link: video.google.com...]

Too funny....did you read the comments?....one from "Rusty" says
I see you uploaded the video here, too, eh?

658 Perplexed  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:53:53am

So what do you expect from the 'rats? Decency? Honesty? Common courtesy? Sorry, but they've sold out to the addiction of power and, with few exceptions belong nowhere near any elected office. They've sold their collective souls to the highest bidder.

659 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 7:54:22am

It's up to #3 on the Y! Buzz top ten list.

This is what grassroots looks like.

660 looking closely  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 8:18:45am

re: #30 shibumi

These are actually unbelievable accusations to a person with common sense. Therein lies the problem. I'm beginning to think about 50% of the nation doesn't have any common sense.

I have heard that roughly half the American population is of below-average intelligence.

/Though sometimes you wonder if the actual number is even higher.

661 Osama Bin Porkchop  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 8:29:08am

re: #437 Abu Al-Poopypants

Or at least a new set of tires.....

662 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 8:44:29am

re: #30 shibumi

Your estimate is a bit low I am afraid.

663 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 8:47:09am

re: #660 looking closely

I am afraid you may be wrong. 50% of the American population has less than the median of anything you wish to choose. The mean and the median may not be the same number. The IQ tests were initially designed so that the mean and median would both be 100, but they may no longer be so.

664 looking closely  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 8:58:32am

re: #663 Shr_Nfr

I am afraid you may be wrong. 50% of the American population has less than the median of anything you wish to choose. The mean and the median may not be the same number. The IQ tests were initially designed so that the mean and median would both be 100, but they may no longer be so.

Um. . .obviously, about half of any group is going to be less than average (ie it was a joke).

But if it makes you feel better, nearly 50% of the American population is smarter than average.

/Told you we weren't stupid.

As an aside, with IQ being distributed normally, and the population being so high, mean and median IQ's will be effectively identical.

The test defines median as 100, though as you point out absolute intelligence seems to be trending upwards over the last few decades, particularly in the lower half of the curve. The reasons for this are unclear: Better nutrition? Better education? Selection? Better (or worse) test methodology?

665 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 10:44:26am
666 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 2:29:00pm

FREAKIN' EXCELLENT WORK by Rusty and the crew at Jawa. Just awesome!

EXTRA! (someone has likely beat my to this):


Jared Liu-Klein (aka "stckyfngz") hangs up on Weekly Standard

667 Maui Girl  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 3:20:18pm

Just couldn't leave the final comment at triple 6.

668 Spiny Norman  Mon, Sep 22, 2008 4:06:50pm

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

FREAKIN' EXCELLENT WORK by Rusty and the crew at Jawa. Just awesome!

EXTRA! (someone has likely beat my to this):


Jared Liu-Klein (aka "stckyfngz") hangs up on Weekly Standard

I saw that. That's hilarious!


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