Link didn't work for me.

Not found

Good on you, Charles.

You know you're right on this issue.
Stay the course.

Wait for it...

Let's talk about something while we wait

Linky no worky.

Works now.

I went direct, the page is there, might be blocking referrals from here Charles.

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Here's a working link.

Later, I am off to watch the White Sox try to make the playoffs.
Mama Winger , if your here , let's do a Crosstown!

What follows is an essay by Fjordman on what I consider to be the dangerous, almost lethal hypocrisy...

Pack a lunch. It's going to be a long f*cking post.

The appeal of joining forces with one enemy to destroy another is strong.

In this case, it is also very, very wrong.

Jeeebus, I don't know why Pam and Fjordman don't see this.

Read thru the first couple of paragraphs and almost lost it. I'll keep my opinion to myself in fear of being tracked down and hunted.

Thanks to Pastorius for your comments there, by the way. It's a lost cause.

Charles, you have my complete support in this. These guys are total a$$holes.

re: #10 opnion

Later, I am off to watch the White Sox try to make the playoffs.
Mama Winger , if your here , let's do a Crosstown!

Sounds like a plan!

I love how it's "either-or" with that group, like if you're against radical Islamists, then you're great, no matter what else you're doing. Yo, Fjordman and Atlas, this is a little more complicated than choose "A" or "B".

re: #11 Noam Sayin'

Pack a lunch. It's going to be a long f*cking post.

I never saw a post by Fjordman that I read past the first paragraph.

turns out, it was nothing but fascist bile so I'm glad I saved myself the effort.

Go ahead pamela, fjordman and others- make excuses for the neo-nazis. They are not above using you to get the power they want. They are exploiting the situation, and you are falling for the trap.

That the situation is dire is still no excuse to make alliances with nazis. That the situation in europe is dire is exactly how fascists come to power. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it, vb lovers.

I just posted this on the previous thread, not realizing it's imminent status as "dead thread". Here are my musings again, for everyone's amusement and/or derision:

Well, it looks like it's going to come down to just 3 states in the northeast that will determine our next President. Specifically the heart of the Rust Belt: Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan. Every projection and poll I've seen shows every other state firlmy in one camp or the other for most of this election season, giving 245 solid votes to McCain and 235 solid votes to Obama.

What this means is that the race will come down to whoever gets 2 of the 3 states mentioned* (Florida is just not in play, despite what Dems may think of their chances there). Ohio seems likes it's leaning towards McCain, while Michigan looks pretty good for Obama. I believe Pennsylvania will be the true battleground, like Ohio and Florida before.

*There is the slightest possibility that McCain could lose two states and still win anyway, but only if he can wrest Colorado and New Mexico away from Obama; but McCain is slightly vulnerable in Nevada and West Virginia, potentially cancelling that out. No, I don't expext too much shake-up in the western states or West Virginia. It's Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Once those three contests have been decided, the night is over.

re: #11 Noam Sayin'

Pack a lunch. It's going to be a long f*cking post.

I'm just skipping to his LGF rant...

re: #12 Son Of The Godfather

The appeal of joining forces with one enemy to destroy another is strong.

In this case, it is also very, very wrong.

Jeeebus, I don't know why Pam and Fjordman don't see this.

They see it.

re: #19 Sharmuta

Go ahead pamela, fjordman and others- make excuses for the neo-nazis. They are not above using you to get the power they want. They are exploiting the situation, and you are falling for the trap.

That the situation is dire is still no excuse to make alliances with nazis. That the situation in europe is dire is exactly how fascists come to power. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it, vb lovers.

Well said.

I think EMC or some other large data storage vendor needs to "join forces" with these guys if they expect to let Fjordman to keep writing those long ass posts.

The line here is thin it seems.

But like most things, both sides hate Jews.

I posted the other night that here in the Philly suburbs, there are a lot more McCain signs this time than there were Bush signs four years ago.

Of course, I haven't heard how the registration of dead voters is going in Philly.

OK, I read it.

Pamela finally comes out of seclusion to show us that after all this time, she's still an idiot.

re: #22 Gordon Marock

They see it.

That makes it exponentially dubious.
(I hate Illinois Nazis)

"One of the reasons why hardcore anti-Semites (David Duke would be a case in point) are unreliable allies is that they hate Jews so much that it shuts down the rational parts of their brain and they end up making common cause with Muslims, based on mutual hatred."

Ah, so they aren't irrational because of their jew-hatred, it's that they use the rational parts of their brain on hating jews.

Put on some more pancake makeup, clown. Your true colors are shining through.

-WFH

re: #25 WrathofG-d

The line here is thin it seems.

But like most things, both sides hate Jews.

No white nationalists allowed. That's not a thin line.

I really wish she would stop using that title for her blog.

Ayn Rand would have absolutely nothing to do with that kind of trash.

The poor, poor islamists in Europe are caught in this sandwich between Fascist forces and the Communist marxists. I think I have this right...the Fascists want the islamists out, the Communists want the Fascists out so if the Communists win, the Islamists win, don't they? And if the Fascists win, the islamists are out but at what price?

Makes me wonder if there isn't anyone in Europe that wants the islamists out yet doesn't fall under the "fascist" label. Is everyone in Europe that wants an end to islamofascism there to be considered a fascist? I fear that my views about islamists in America would certainly be labeled as "fascist" by the multicultural marxists of Europe.

re: #27 Irish Rose

OK, I read it.

Pamela finally comes out of seclusion to show us that after all this time, she's still an idiot.

She and Naomi Wolf should go out to lunch together.

May Fjordman go down in history as the first to achieve a heretofore impossible anatomical maneuver of (*rimshot*) self-penetration.

Hey if you want to see the new face of Fascism, David Duke and his Euro buddies are having a conference in Memphis Tennessee early November. To protest whoever it is that wins the election. They hate em both. You can buy your tickets here (If you don't mind giving up your credit card info to Dr Duke.) International Euro Conference And this below is Duke pimping the event on $tormfront. no link.

by David Duke

Just a few short days after the political and media bosses install a new President of the United States; we will meet in Memphis, Tennessee to issue a clarion call for a Movement across the United States, and indeed across the European-American world, to defend our heritage and freedom!

We will assemble to say clearly that neither Black Radical, Barrack Obama, nor Mr. Amnesty, John McCain truly represent the will of the American people. This Conference will be the first powerful voice of our people in reaction and protest to the election and the lack of any real choice and any real Democracy in America. In this history-making time, we shall chart our course and forge a plan for the survival and freedom of the heritage that built and sustains America, Europe, and the other nations around the world of European descent.

As organizer of this EURO Conference, I welcome Willis Carto of American Free Press/Barnes Review, Don Black of Stormfront, Dr. Edward Fields and James Edwards of the Political Cesspool Radio Program as co-hosts for the event.

Memphis is one of the most centrally-located cities in the USA and is a major airline hub. It is convenient as a destination from almost anywhere, and easy to get to for our overseas participants as well.

It will be held in a first class, premier hotel in a beautiful and secure country setting that is still just a short ride from the Memphis region airport. This fine hotel has agreed to a reduction of almost 40 percent off their normal rates. [I wonder who in Memphis is giving the big discount to Nazis?-ed]

There will be a number of well-known, exciting speakers from overseas, as well as many major American and Canadian speakers including, Willis Carto, Don Black, Paul Fromm, Sam Dickson, James Edwards, Lady Michele Renouf of the UK, Dr. Tom Sunic of Croatia and a number of other famous individuals who will be announced at the meeting itself. Some speakers will be announced at the conference due to the fact that the Federal Government has sought to prevent entry to leaders of European Rights organizations and political movements.

The LGF-crowd thinks that Europeans must prove that we are 100% "ideologically pure" before we should be granted the right to fight for our continued existence.

Not at all.
But the USA isn't Europe.
Maybe these things fly in Belgium, but any connection to Naziism is political poison in this country.
The FASTEST way to discredit this site, and everything Charles (and others) have worked for over years, is to connect with neo-Nazis or their European fascist pals.
This isn't "ideologic purity" its pragmatic reality.

These are the kind of people who go to parties, and, out of politeness, refuse to tell racists to go f*&ck themselves.

Anyone willing to ally themselves with VB should not be shocked from the knife in the back after deflecting the knife from the front from Islam.

re: #20 Lizard by the Bay

It's Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Once those three contests have been decided, the night is over.

Well, at least that means I won't have to stay up till the wee hours of the morning, like in 2000.

Speaking of PA...let's go, Phillies!

David Duke stayed at a Vlaams Belang council member's house when he visited Belgium, remember:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Here is Fjordman's essay:

TLDR, except the last bit:

At some point, the rapidly shrinking number of people in the northern hemisphere who haven't been banned from the site yet will be forced to ask themselves whether the website and its owner have simply switched teams and joined the Dark Side.

What a hoot! This is comedy, right? [rhetorical]

re: #39 arethusa

Well, at least that means I won't have to stay up till the wee hours of the morning, like in 2000.

Speaking of PA...let's go, Phillies!

I never said the vote counts in these states wouldn't go on into the wee hours of the morning. That's always a posibillity.

Fascist come to power when the government fails to take care of the needs of the people. That is what we're seeing in europe now. The weak kneed governments are failing their citizens, and the citizens are turning to the only groups they see willing to do anything about it.

This is what happened in post WWI europe, it is happening again. Europe will go fascist again- they did not learn. And people like pamela, fjordman and others (I know who you are) will be cheering.

Will you be cheering, pamela, when they round up the Jews after they're done with the muslims? Will others be cheering when tactics used by the islamists are put to use by the europeans, or will they turn a blind eye?

Shame on those who disregard Liberty and toss it under the bus. SHAME ON YOU!

What really gets me is that Pamela blames Charles, and LGF, for encouraging the attacks on those who attended the Cologne conference. (Oh yeah, like the European Left really cares about what what they consider Facist, right-wing American blogs and looks to them for their marching orders, ayup, ayup!)

This is as demented as anything coming from Naomi Wolfe.

The thinking seems to be that if you scratch any random European there is usually a Nazi lurking underneath, just waiting to get out. There are only two possible versions of Europeans: the surrender-monkeys and the Nazis.

Again, no.
But when something walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what are you to assume?
Its up to you to build something that prevents encroachment of Islamism without being tied to neo-Nazism.
Until and unless you can do that, you wont get support from mainsteam America.

Such scenery chewing hysteria all so Eurofascist pols can win more votes in their districts. What bileous spume.

I mean you invite LePen what the fuck do you expect? The fact that it's all so easy to shut this crap down ought to give Geller a glimpse at how extreme her new Euro social circle is.

Is she going to be pimping books for Pat next?

The LGF-crowd thinks that Europeans must prove that we are 100% "ideologically pure" before we should be granted the right to fight for our continued existence.

We're all fighting for our continue existence, idiot. The enemy wants us all to be either dead or dhimmified. The jihadis make no distinction between Americans and Europeans.

The difference between us, is that you choose to align yourself with (what you perceive to be) a lesser evil, in order to fight (what you perceive to be) a greater evil.

What you fail to realize, is that it's the SAME evil.

The Nazis came to power back in the 1930's by claiming that they were the only ones who could save the world from Russian Marxism (and the Jews, of course).

We all know how well their war against the Bolsheviks went. (Can you say "Hitler/Stalin Pact, boys and girls? I knew you could!)

As Spence has pointed out before, racial purity is not a credible or effective basis upon which to build opposition to Muslim extremism. For that reason alone, apart from their distasteful appeal to race, the white supremicists are losers.

re: #48 TalkinKamel

The National Socialists and the Soviet communists were basically two gangs competing for real estate, slave laborers, and other resources. The Nazi-Soviet War of 1941-1945 could be characterized as a drive by shooting carried out on an industrial scale.

re: #43 Sharmuta

Fascist come to power when the government fails to take care of the needs of the people

I would say, rather, that fascists come to power when government takes away the power of people to take care of themselves.

Europe has been living as a nanny state, effectively neutering the strength and abilities of its population. It has taken away their guns, it has taken away their right to free speech and made it a hate crime to speak out against those who would seek to harm society. It has made people dependent on government welfare and effectively crippled ingenuity, creativity and production. Their sense of self-determination has been stolen from them by the government via the European Union.

People in Europe don't need more government to take care of them, they need government to give rights back to the people so that they may take care of themselves.

Charles, thanks for pointing this out btw. I've got most of that circle on /ignore and never would have noticed this. She'll probably get more hits tonight than she's had in months.

Because Fjordman's ego is so big, he will check these comments.

So here is a little feedback, FM.

That post is so stuffed with strawmen that it is a fire hazard.

I will do you the favor and focus on one of them.

What is this 100% ideological purity test bullshit? There is a broad spectrum of political viewpoints within the west that you claim to defend from Islam. So where is this definition of ideological purity to which one must adhere 100%?

Reply where ever you like - I will find it.

The point repeatedly made here is that embracing fascists, even while holding your nose, doesn't cut it. Fascists simply will destroy what we hope to defend, they will simply do it in a different way than the Islamists.

re: #49 buzzsawmonkey

I admire Pamela's ardor, but on this issue, she's seriously mistaken.

re: #42 Lizard by the Bay

re: #39 arethusa

Well, at least that means I won't have to stay up till the wee hours of the morning, like in 2000.

Speaking of PA...let's go, Phillies!

re: #42 Lizard by the Bay

I never said the vote counts in these states wouldn't go on into the wee hours of the morning. That's always a posibillity.

True. But hopefully it will beat 2004, when I stayed up all night...thanks to being in Europe at the time and watching on CNN World (ick).

I can't believe Fjordman expects an apology. That guy needs to lay off the fermented twinkies...

re: #52 mama winger

No- fascists come to power by exploiting the weakness of the government to do their job for the people.

When the farmers of the Po Valley needed help, the government did nothing, so they turned to the Blackshirts, and this paved the was for fascists in Italy.

When the farmers in France needed help, the government helped them. The Blueshirts had no influence and fascism in France never became a force to be reckoned with.

re: #58 Sharmuta

I guess my ideological bent is a little different. I believe that the solution to most problems is less government, not more. The most dreaded words to me are

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

re: #49 buzzsawmonkey

I tend to look more at her megalomania. The constant restating of her Jewish identity is simply a dimension of the megalomania. Just look at that post -- not one link except to herself in the introduction. And the graphics emphasizing her physique are supposed to support her arguments? I know they are intended as humor, but only in the most self flattering way.

What's next for Pamela? Support for David Duke and American white supremists because they 'share' a common goal?

re: #50 quickjustice

As Spence has pointed out before, racial purity is not a credible or effective basis upon which to build opposition to Muslim extremism. For that reason alone, apart from their distasteful appeal to race, the white supremicists are losers.

Let me ask a question. If I am a white Swede who is adamantly against the islamafication of my homeland, can you explain how I will NOT be labeled as a "white supremacist" by the marxists in Europe? Surely you aren't saying that the 5,000 (or whatever ridiculously low number) Vlaams Belang members in Belgium represent 100% of the causcasian opposition to the islamists in Europe? Is it not possible that 75% of the white Swedes opposed to islamofascism in Sweden are NOT members of the Swedish Democrats? Is it possible that the Swedes opposed to the islamists that are defenders of Israel and NOT stricken with the racial purity angle, simply refuse to organize themselves because of the eventual label of "supremacist" , "neo-nazi" or "fascist"?

Sorry, but it appears to me that the "fascist" or "white supremacist" paint brush used on the Europeans is about as wide as France and as long as Norway.

Like many here, I oppose an Obama presidency for a multitude of policy reasons.

White supremacists oppose an Obama presidency because he is black.

I would sooner taste the sweet, gunpowdery release of my Thompson .45 than join with fascists for a common political goal.

When you suspend your core beliefs for an end result, you jeopardize those very beliefs you claim to hold true. A simple, undeniable fact that seems lost to those who would side with a repugnant ideology for the sake of political expediency.

Let me see if I understand Fjordman's "logic". He starts hanging out with Neo-Nazis. Then he starts tying the fascist Neo-Nazi movement to anti-Jihad, welcoming them with open arms to the cause. Then he starts getting called a Nazi and fascist. And so he blames us (as in LGF) for tying him to Neo-Nazi fascists when all we did was turn our backs on him by refusing to go down his path.

Do I have the basic gist of what the psycho little turd is saying?

Whereas the liberal state rested on a compact among its citizens to protect individual rights and freedoms, the fascist state embodied the national destiny, in service to which all the members of the national group found their highest fulfillment.

-Robert Paxton, Anatomy of Fascism

You cannot fight fascism with fascism. Shame on those who toss Liberty aside so lightly.

What amuses me is the blatant self-contradiction of Fjordmann criticizing others for 'ideological purity', when those others are merely refusing to buy into what Fjordmann favors: linking arms with racial purists in order to oppose religious purists.

#64
pretty much.
swim in the duck pond, show the requisite plumage, and quack, and your mother may still call you a swan, but to me, Fjordman, you sure look like a duck...

To ally yourself with fascists, be they white black or yellow for all I care, against Islamofacists is like drinking one brand of beer instead of another. Fascists are fascists without any regard to brand - all want the same goals in the end: [insert specific fascist ideology here] will rule the world order and no Jews. Replacing one with another won't solve the problem. We must oppose all fascists if we are to make it as citizens of free countries and as a race in general. Our fathers and grandfathers fought the white (Nazis) and red (Communists) fascists alike and we should follow their example.

I'm with Charles on this one.

No fascists allowed.

aw darnit, did i kill the thread again?

re: #61 rightymouse

What's next for Pamela? Support for David Duke and American white supremists because they 'share' a common goal?

Nah, but only because the Duke-heads are on the other side; they support Islamofascism through their opposition to the war and their mutual hatred of Jews. Duke himself has made some highly lucrative speaking engagements in various middle eastern fascist hellholes, where he is treated as an honored guest and a legitimate American leader.

I can't help but think that there really is no hope for Europe.

It's a truly sad state of affairs and I expect it to get worse as the years go by.

"Enjoy your new allies, folks."
- Charles

Umm, don't you mean enjoy your new AXIS?

salamantis, i regret that i have but one upding to give for that very clever bit of wit!

Stuff like this happening in Europe really concern me. Is there no middle ground at all? Is there any group in Europe that fights this Islamification that is not connected to the White Supremacists?

...A line of anti-riot police agents was only two meters behind them. I can not find a better image of the creeping Eurabian fascism: The police not only do not confront them, they cover their backs....

...Thomas Steg, spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel, stated that Berlin favored "inter-cultural dialogue." The German Interior Ministry, too, criticized the rally, stating that "Such a gathering of populists and extremists harms the co-existence that the city and Muslim citizens have striven for..."

...Cologne Mayor Fritz Schramma, from the same "conservative" Christian Democratic Party (CDU) as Chancellor Merkel, said on public radio that "We don't want their conference and along with a great majority of Cologne people we'll be obstructing them..."

re: #26 livefreeor die

I posted the other night that here in the Philly suburbs, there are a lot more McCain signs this time than there were Bush signs four years ago.

Of course, I haven't heard how the registration of dead voters is going in Philly.

Out in this (western) Philly suburb there aren't even any McCain lawn signs available yet at local HQ but I've seen a lot popping up anyway. Will try HQ again tomorrow. OTOH, I think there may be more Obama signs up than there were Kerry signs by this time four years ago. It's early yet. I expect to see a lot more of both soon.

I'm glad the neo-nazis are fighting against the Islamic fascists. But I'm not going to accept an "alliance" with them, or overlook their faults because of it.

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.

re: #68 Twilight

Fascists are fascists without any regard to brand - all want the same goals in the end: [insert specific fascist ideology here] will rule the world order and no Jews.

Fascism, at it's core, is not about getting rid of the Jews, but it does seem to be the icing on the turd for many brands of fascist scum.

re: #70 shiplord kirel

Nah, but only because the Duke-heads are on the other side; they support Islamofascism through their opposition to the war and their mutual hatred of Jews. Duke himself has made some highly lucrative speaking engagements in various middle eastern fascist hellholes, where he is treated as an honored guest and a legitimate American leader.

The European supremists are more clever, it seems. Methinks they are hiding their ultimate agenda which I fear won't stop at Muslims if they ever gain political power on the backs of non-suspecting Jews.

Charles thanks for keeping the real work here untainted, we will need it kept untainted or the work will not work.

Fjordman was a big proponent of mass deportations from his homeland of people who "don't belong" there. All those 10,000 word essays he writes can be summed up in that one central goal.

ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FJORDMAN ON FREEDOM FIGHTING "FASCISTS" I STILL KEEP MISSING THE POINT.

Fixed that for ya'.

re: #33 livefreeor die

She and Naomi Wolf should go out to lunch together.

But who would be lunch?

/

Ultimately the two forces islamic and fascist may destroy each other, & it is better to stand back from that.

Ornery the answer to that question is not that hard.

You argue against the ideology of the Takfirists, not the symbols (scarves, mosques) because that's ultimately stupid and ineffective. (It's also driven by these far right group's own ideologies of blood and soil, but another time for that.)

You use facts, data, reason, not rhetoric and hysteria.

You fight to enforce all of your laws equally, for that is where the line of resistance is truly drawn.

You demonstrate against specific hate clerics and use their own words against them and you persist until those individuals are driven out. They cannot survive in the light. The truth is a powerful weapon.

What you don't do:

Ally with LePen and like outfits, you are defeated from the start, no questions asked, none needed. Nobody needs to take you seriously.

re: #72 Salamantis

Zing! Not only did I laugh, but now I have an urge to dust of that old Milton Bradley box.

what i remember reading abt. nazis in ww2, is that they hated the jews , the gypsies, the polish, the catholics, the gays and many other people a lot more than they hated the moslems.
the nazis are a bad ally for anyone but other nazis.

re: #78 rightymouse

The European supremists are more clever, it seems. Methinks they are hiding their ultimate agenda which I fear won't stop at Muslims if they ever gain political power on the backs of non-suspecting Jews.

Of course it's not going to stop with the muslims. It will continue on to any group that the fascists believe don't belong in the state.

Things seem to be going a bit pear-shaped over at Jihadwatch, as well.

Methinks the Baron and Pamela, more emphatically Fjordman, must be a little unsure of themselves. Otherwise they wouldn't obsess so much over what Charles thinks of them--but they do obsess*. I am not saying that they are not sincere in their resistance to jihad, but they just don't want to admit that their efforts are tainted by their association with or acquiescence toward the blood-and-soil cadres. Pamela especially should know better, but she has made a choice that will only allow resentment to cloud her otherwise keen observations on the tactics of the jihadis and her support for true patriots like John Bolton and Carolyn Glick.

They rail against Charles when he criticizes them; they rail against Charles when he ignores them. Indeed, they suffer from obsession.

-----
*The Baron has a little graphic on GoV that reads, "I have been banned at LGF, have you?"

re: #74 Outrider

Well, I think all of us in America can relate to how the MSM treats conservatives in American in their "reporting" , so it stands to reason that the marxist controlled news media of Europe would treat any counter-jihad group in the same way , in other words:

Sarah Palin courtesy of American MSM = Evil Neo-Con Reactionary

Counter-jihadists in Europe courtesy of European marxist media = White Supremacist Neo-Fascist Nazis

re: #87 Sharmuta

Of course it's not going to stop with the muslims. It will continue on to any group that the fascists believe don't belong in the state.

Exactly.

Is Pamela Geller any relation to Uri Geller? Maybe she could just make the Islamists disappear?

Damn, Fjordman's posts are always so long. I always seem to lose interest in them before I finish. One can get away with that - if you're Bill Whittle. You know, take me on a little journey with you.

I've seldom posted on these white nationalist-themed threads because I'm mostly just reading learning. Thank you lizards for breaking it all down for the rest of us.

Thanks, Charles.

re: #87 Sharmuta

Of course it's not going to stop with the muslims. It will continue on to any group that the fascists believe don't belong in the state.

They can check with our MSM about how to go after babies with Down's syndrome.

re: #90 ornery elephant

Well, I think all of us in America can relate to how the MSM treats conservatives in American in their "reporting" , so it stands to reason that the marxist controlled news media of Europe would treat any counter-jihad group in the same way , in other words:

Sarah Palin courtesy of American MSM = Evil Neo-Con Reactionary

Counter-jihadists in Europe courtesy of European marxist media = White Supremacist Neo-Fascist Nazis

Well- we certainly can't argue that the counter-jihad in europe is being treated unfairly when they welcome the nazis with open arms. Gee- maybe it's part of the problem, huh?

Because the only way to be anti-jihad is to be a nationalist!

/sarc

re: #75 Lynn B.

Out in this (western) Philly suburb there aren't even any McCain lawn signs available yet at local HQ but I've seen a lot popping up anyway. Will try HQ again tomorrow. OTOH, I think there may be more Obama signs up than there were Kerry signs by this time four years ago. It's early yet. I expect to see a lot more of both soon.

I think they are backlogged, and I bet they are filling the orders in battleground states first, I haven't got my signs yet though I ordered two weeks ago. I'm seeing a few Obama signs here, but not many McCain. Of course in Kansas Obama's certainly got no chance.

I don't mind waiting a bit longer to make sure as many McCain / Palin signs as possible go up in the tossup states.

re: #95 livefreeor die

They can check with our MSM about how to go after babies with Down's syndrome.

They have their own history books for that.

I have to agree with Ornery Elephant (#62). Being frustrated with your government and opposing the importation of Islam doesn't make you a Nazi, fascist, or white supremacist. But hanging with David Duke makes it likely.

Let's not be so quick to reject possible allies in a long war. If they're a problem later, we kick their asses, too. Pamela seems like a good sort. I didn't read much of the Fjordman thing; life's too short.

re: #94 Noam Sayin'

I put a book in the spinoffs that is invaluable to learning more about the roots of european fascism, if you'd like to read more up on the subject.

re: #96 Sharmuta

Well- we certainly can't argue that the counter-jihad in europe is being treated unfairly when they welcome the nazis with open arms. Gee- maybe it's part of the problem, huh?

The tragedy is that, because the counter-jihadis have associated themselves with the blood-and-soil cadres, savages like the Antifa are spared the scrutiny they merit.

re: #100 Tom on the Rez

You can hang with the nazis- I'll pass.

re: #87 Sharmuta

Of course it's not going to stop with the muslims. It will continue on to any group that the fascists believe don't belong in the state.

Agreed. They know the way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. There is no reason to think they would stop purifying their homeland once the Muslims were gone.

re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks for correcting me. Fascism by itself is not antisemitic but is always based on class/race divisions. Most brands have antisemitism/racism on their agenda or get to it in later stages one way or the other.
But you got my point anyway I hope.

re: #93 Moe Katz

Is Pamela Geller any relation to Uri Geller? Maybe she could just make the Islamists disappear?

If not she could bend their spoons?

re: #107 Thanos

If not she could bend their spoons?

A dastardly idea!

re: #96 Sharmuta

Once again, are you saying that 100% of the counter-jihad in Europe is represented by Vlaams Belang?

I mean seriously...you said:

the counter-jihad in europe is being treated unfairly when they welcome the nazis with open arms.

Does that mean that if Robert Spencer embraced The Aryan Nation in America here, that the lizards of LGF would be "welcoming the nazis with open arms" ?

Is Vlaams Belang 50,000,000 strong or am I missing something?

re: #106 Twilight

Thanks for correcting me. Fascism by itself is not antisemitic but is always based on class/race divisions. Most brands have antisemitism/racism on their agenda or get to it in later stages one way or the other.
But you got my point anyway I hope.

Yes, that is why I say "blood-and-soil cadres," because not all those in Europe (or here in America) who reject the pluralism of the classical liberal are specifically (neo)Nazi.

I guess this makes Pam a "useful idiot." Too bad, I used to like her blog. I guess she doesn't know that fascist always look for the next culprit to their woes.

re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth

Fascism, at it's core, is not about getting rid of the Jews, but it does seem to be the icing on the turd for many brands of fascist scum.

That's true- the fascists in Italy had no problem with the Jews until they started their alliance with the Nazis.

re: #109 ornery elephant

I'm not so sure Robert Spencer is one to be help up in this conversation.

re: #100 Tom on the Rez

Let's not be so quick to reject possible allies in a long war.

Let's not be so quick to treat people fighting against a common enemy as "allies".

I'm glad the white fascists are fighting against the Islamic fascists, and I think the Islamic fascists are currently more dangerous, but that doesn't mean I want the white fascists to win. I'll gladly accept one group of my enemies weakening another group of my enemies. But I won't accept them as "allies" or "friends", only as less powerful enemies.

Flip it on it's head:

If a violent, pro-aryan supremacy, fascist movement was gaining wealth, power, territory and influence, who would find it acceptable to join forces with islamo-fascists to oppose them?

Not I.

re: #100 Tom on the Rez

Hanging out with David Duke is not ok (which we all agree with), but hanging out with self-admitted European white supremacists is just hunky-dory?

re: #101 Sharmuta

I put a book in the spinoffs that is invaluable to learning more about the roots of european fascism, if you'd like to read more up on the subject.

I'm four books behind as it is.

Damn innernets.

re: #62 ornery elephant

Sorry, but it appears to me that the "fascist" or "white supremacist" paint brush used on the Europeans is about as wide as France and as long as Norway.

-----------------------------
You have a point there. Any right wing group AUTOMATICALLY gets painted with a "fascist" label in Europe. That's why everyone there seems to be left or squarely in the center. There is an unhealthy self-loathing for nationalism [love of country] in Europe.

Being "right" in Europe quite often means joining a far right group because of the false security it brings in a political gang. It's sort of like her in the US when Republicans [the right] don't advertise their political beliefs for fear of retribution [cars getting keyed, etc.]

If only there could be "right-wing" parties in Europe without the fascist crap.

re: #109 ornery elephant

How is rejecting Vlaams Belang, etc., rejecting the European counter-jihad? Are you saying they're the only ones in Europe that oppose the Caliphate? (If you do, I flat out can't believe it.)

re: #117 Noam Sayin'

However, that one looks important.

re: #119 right_on_target

I'd settle for just plain ol' conservative, free-market, classic liberal, capitalism supporting parties.

Uhmmm, Charles, who exactly made me an Ally of the fascist thugs? Substituting one thug for another is no answer and it saddens me that people like Pamela are so short sighted as to miss that.

re: #109 ornery elephant

Once again, are you saying that 100% of the counter-jihad in Europe is represented by Vlaams Belang?

You know damn good and well that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that the nazis are tainting the movement and you whine that the movement is being called tainted by the msm. It's not the msm's fault. You want to be pissed that the msm calls the movement tainted- look to the tainters. Thank vb, pamela and fjordy.

Someone tell me whats wrong with Atlas Shrugs. I thought she was one of the good guys. What happened to her?

Oh well- they're going to call me a fascist anyways so I might as well prove them right.

How is cutting off your nose to spite your face a winning strategy, OE?

re: #106 Twilight

I got your point, and gave you an up-ding. I wasn't trying to correct you, just trying to point out that fascism is not about racial divisions. Though it does help the instigators to have a scapegoat of some sort, and racial/religious divisions seem to be the easiest to exploit.

re: #122 TalkinKamel

I'd settle for just plain ol' conservative, free-market, classic liberal, capitalism supporting parties.

I would too, but except for one tiny party in Germany (I think they are called the Free Democrats), there is no such party in Western Europe, as far as I know.

I'd be happy to receive informed corrections.

re: #125 winston06

Someone tell me whats wrong with Atlas Shrugs. I thought she was one of the good guys. What happened to her?

Fear.

The only viable opposition to the theocratic totalitarianism of the global jihadist ummah is not a resurgence of genocidal blood and soil fascism; it is a rededication to spreading the equal civil and human rights, the guaranteed personal freedoms, the permission to politically participate in deciding the future course of one's own nation, the racial, religious, and gender egalitarianism, and the unfettered and unhindered, equality-of-opportunity-based chances for fairly earned prosperity for oneself and one's family that are at the core of the concept of constitutional democracy, to all people who truly desire them - in other words, to all people with an authentic desire to live out their lives in peace, freedom, and prosperity. That will be a majority of uncoerced people in most cultures. Genuine constitutional democracies do not typically war with each other, nor do they typically support terrorist groups that attack each other.

Charles, I think we have a lot of new folks here who don't understand the history of this conflict.

Do you have a link, or a short version?

re: #125 winston06

Someone tell me whats wrong with Atlas Shrugs. I thought she was one of the good guys. What happened to her?

Pamela loves Bat Ye'or, treats her like her bubbie. Bat Ye'or has been very strong and brave against jihad, but for some reason she has aligned herself with a number of the blood-and-soil cadres.

re: #90 ornery elephant

Well, I think all of us in America can relate to how the MSM treats conservatives in American in their "reporting" , so it stands to reason that the marxist controlled news media of Europe would treat any counter-jihad group in the same way , in other words:

Sarah Palin courtesy of American MSM = Evil Neo-Con Reactionary

Counter-jihadists in Europe courtesy of European marxist media = White Supremacist Neo-Fascist Nazis

The problem of course, is that the Counter-jihadists seem to have allied with the White Supremacist Neo-Fascist Nazis, even to the point of welcoming them with open arms.

Just like Charles warned them last year, this will keep many people away from the counter-jihad movement. That assertion seems to be borne out by the protest numbers, 1,500 counter-jihadists v. 40,000 anti-fascists.

Charles,

I believe that many here, understand, and to a point sympathize with Pamela Geller's view, i.e. the existential threat that is Islam, or to some radical Islam, is so great, and so imminent, that any measure is justifiable in order to stem its advance.

Whether or not Ms. Geller is frum (observant in her Judaism) is beside the point.

What I take from her writings (or rants) is that she is willing for the sake of expedience to align herself with those who may be otherwise objectionable to preserve Judaism/Israel, both she believes are being immediately threatened with annihilation.

I get that.

With all due respect Charles, you are what the Jews call a "Righteous Gentile," it may be the highest compliment imaginable.

I understand and fully appreciate your objections to VB and others of their ilk.

I get that, too.

My own belief is that Europe, or what was once known as Europe (including the Kingdom of Great Britain) is doomed, or already lost.

If not, it will be, ironically, the Nazi's who save Europe and ultimately, the Jews.

Let me clear, I am NOT an advocate for the ethic nationalism that is represented by the so-called White brigades. I abhor them and their policies.

Yet, in the end, I think that's the way things are going to work out.

You are one of a kind, Charles.

Really.

Keep up the great work.

Just sayin'.

People are viewing this from the standpoint of anti-jihadists accepting fascists as allies. I believe the opposite to be true. Fascist Europe is recruiting good citizens into their ranks by using fear of Islam. It's what fascists do to gain power. Sure, a possible benefit would be the removal of Islam, but who in their right mind would want to live under fascist rule?

re: #118 buzzsawmonkey

Not even for the groovy rugs? You are hard to please.

Heh! I've already got enough knots on my head from my reckless, "testosterone poisoned" youth. I don't need any more.

re: #100 Tom on the Rez

re: #114 LotharBot

Again, remember the Hitler/Stalin pact?

The Russians were well aware of the Nazis' racial views, and that these views considered Slavs only slightly less loathsome than Jews---but, why reject a possible ally, da? Surely, the Germans would support them in their mutual war against the corrupt, Western capitalists, and not betray them, right?

When the Nazis did stab them on the back, the Russians did have the option of allying themselves with the very Western allies it had hoped to destroy; who are we going to ally ourselves with, when our Euro-Facist "allies" turn on us? "Kicking their asses later" isn't always an option, and it's wishful thinking to make dangerous alliances trusting that we can always take care of them later, if they turn on us. Maybe---maybe not.

re: #128 ContraJihadi

I know. And that's Europe's problem at the moment.

re: #124 Sharmuta

You know damn good and well that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that the nazis are tainting the movement and you whine that the movement is being called tainted by the msm. It's not the msm's fault. You want to be pissed that the msm calls the movement tainted- look to the tainters. Thank vb, pamela and fjordy.

Can you give me one example of a counter-jihad group in Europe that you HAVE supported? Are you saying that every counter-jihad group in Europe that has organized you have not accused of being neo-nazi or white supremacist?

re: #110 ContraJihadi

Yes, that is why I say "blood-and-soil cadres," because not all those in Europe (or here in America) who reject the pluralism of the classical liberal are specifically (neo)Nazi.

I maybe old fashioned, but I honestly believe that opposition to evil should be based on the democratic values as expressed by the American Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Human Rights in general. Any ideology that would reject or infringe on what is said in those two documents (all brands of fascism - white, red, Islamic - fall in this category) is evil because it goes against the common scene of freedom that allows us to be all that we want to be without any regard to race, gender, social status or whatever. I will never ally myself to such evil, no matter what the cause is, and I will always fight fascism in all its ugly forms, just like my father and grandfather before me.

If the Nazis are defending "Europe," what Europe exactly are they defending?

Not a Europe worth defending, in my opinion.

They can take their racist ideas and shove them.

re: #135 Kreuzueber Halbmond

A lot of people probably won't, which will bring us to another problem; Facism, if it's successful (again) in Europe, is going to prove as destabalizing and violent as Islam, as many attempt to flee its influence, and the totalitarian governments attempt to clamp down on everyone, and everything, and start wars with those who are not ethnically/ideologically pure enough for them. It's not going to be much of an improvement over an Islamic Europe.

re: #139 ornery elephant

Are you saying that every counter-jihad group in Europe that has organized you have not accused of being neo-nazi or white supremacist?

You are working overtime to distort my words and allow yourself an opening to excuse ethnic nationalists.

re: #132 ContraJihadi

Weird. I am sorry to hear these stuff

There is a "silent majority" in Europe. But fear, whether real or imaginary, keeps them quiet.
It happened in 1933. History repeats.

re: #131 Irish Rose

Yeah. I am not new here (sorta) LOL... But until now I thought Atlas was with us. What happened?

There is something very bizarre with Fjordman's "arguments." (It reoccurs periodically). He seems to believe (this is my interpretation of his arguments) that all he need do is allege this -- that Group X is "a victim" -- et Voila! -- Case closed...thus he instantly becomes on the side of the righteous, the right side of justice, and the one above reproach. Then the "aggressors" against the "victim" also instantly become labeled as the demonic ones (ok, the "fascists," "nazis" etc.). It's ridiculous. I could go through one of Fjordman's "essays" and do a substitution -- just reverse all the names...and et Voila! you get a reversal of the "persecuted"/"victim" vs "perp". One would think that if matters were indeed this simple, so obvious, and so elemental -- why would there be trials? why would there be disputes? It would all be so cut and dry -- just look for "the victim" and Voila! you get "Innocent!" (I think this is pretty much crazy for adult-level thinking -- might expect such exclamations from children, but adults?) (btw, if you actually "buy" into this kind of thinking -- it's actually dangerous -- consider, for example, victors in war -- are we really supposed to assess the degree of righteousness for a "cause" based solely on who can produce the greatest number of "victims?" put them on a metaphoric weigh scale? that's how "justice" or rightness of a cause is to be determined? good g-d! Fjordman needs to go and take a look at how moral arguments are constructed, how to develop one's evidence, how to put forward one's case, develop the ideas -- and reach beyond "casualty counts."

#134 MeTooThen

If not, it will be, ironically, the Nazi's who save Europe and ultimately, the Jews.

Let me clear, I am NOT an advocate for the ethic nationalism that is represented by the so-called White brigades. I abhor them and their policies.

Yet, in the end, I think that's the way things are going to work out.

So you're just willing to invite them in to do your dirty work and turn a blind eye to their underlying ideology? Aren't you being rather naive?

re: #139 ornery elephant

Can you give us an example of a European counter-jihad group that is not somehow linked with some sort of white nationalist movement, such as Vlaams Belang, BNP, etc.? Something, maybe, like the free market/classic liberal party I wish for, in an earlier post?

re: #125 winston06

Someone tell me whats wrong with Atlas Shrugs. I thought she was one of the good guys. What happened to her?

she has lost her rational mind because she is star struck w/ her own acclaim. thinks she is more important that the issues she is fighting.
she is in a fog. she thinks it's a party, now.

re: #140 Twilight

I maybe old fashioned, but I honestly believe that opposition to evil should be based on the democratic values as expressed by the American Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Human Rights in general. Any ideology that would reject or infringe on what is said in those two documents (all brands of fascism - white, red, Islamic - fall in this category) is evil because it goes against the common scene of freedom that allows us to be all that we want to be without any regard to race, gender, social status or whatever. I will never ally myself to such evil, no matter what the cause is, and I will always fight fascism in all its ugly forms, just like my father and grandfather before me.

Indeed- it's quite simple. We either defend our various compacts that guarantee individual rights or we do not.

re: #109 ornery elephant

Seems to me that you are the one pushing the straw man there OE.

re: #134 MeTooThen

....

What I take from her writings (or rants) is that she is willing for the sake of expedience to align herself with those who may be otherwise objectionable to preserve Judaism/Israel, both she believes are being immediately threatened with annihilation.

I get that.

...

Israel is under tremendous pressure; and, like America, it has a sizable left wing that, for the sake of a Kantian universalist utopianism, is letting Hamas, et al., get away with murder. Reaction is inevitable, even if, carried to extremes, it poses its own dangers. Pamela, who is a person led primarily by her emotions, has let herself be carried away.

re: #149 TalkinKamel

I have been to the Netherlands many time and the Liberal church going people there are countering the Jihadists very successfully. My Green voting Church going Dutch friends don't like the radical Muslims and they are fighting them as best as they can. But they have no room/apetite for the Fascists, AFAIK.

re: #125 winston06

Someone tell me whats wrong with Atlas Shrugs. I thought she was one of the good guys. What happened to her?

I don't know the specifics of Atlas, but in general:

Many bloggers have decided to ignore or downplay others' white supremacist leanings, statements, symbolism, etc. They've accepted white supremacists as outright "allies" in the war against Islamofascism. Charles has criticized this heavily, saying that the neo-nazis are also enemies and should be treated that way. This has gone back and forth, with Fjordman and others defending groups like Vlams Belang, and Charles calling them out for it.

I think Charles is at least 95% right in this case (though I haven't followed it carefully enough to know if his criticisms have been 100% fair.) The neo-nazis are our enemies, and we should treat them that way. We need to fight against all forms of fascism, not just the islamo- variety, and that means we need to reject the neo-nazis rather than seeking them out as "allies". Those who refuse to do are fools (though not necessarily neo-nazis themselves.)

re: #146 winston06

Yeah. I am not new here (sorta) LOL... But until now I thought Atlas was with us. What happened?

Here is the tag search to start reading the sorted history. The first tag would be the last on this list:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #150 nyc redneck

Thanks for the clarification. Yep, that sort of mentality is bad.

I would too, but except for one tiny party in Germany (I think they are called the Free Democrats), there is no such party in Western Europe, as far as I know.

Indeed. Germany is the only party which has elected the Greens to power.

That says it all.

re: #156 Sharmuta

thnx

re: #116 rightymouse

I know, I know. . . and David Duke hangs out with the European white-supremecists.

This is not hunky-dory.

re: #159 winston06

YAVW.

re: #160 TalkinKamel

Pat Buchanan does that too

re: #131 Irish Rose

Charles, I think we have a lot of new folks here who don't understand the history of this conflict.

Do you have a link, or a short version?

As a matter of fact, the tag viewer is handy for that:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #154 winston06

Good to hear that. Any other input on more European non-Facist groups opposing Islam?

There is no sane alliance with people who would weigh the costs of associating with others who are ideological and actual racists.

What the f*** is so hard to understand about such a concept?

It's silly to declare that the entire European anti-Jihad movement is racist. But there are those who proclaim themselves to be under that aegis, who CLEARLY are racist. The only tenet of a global anti-jihad movement should be promoting the awareness of, and actively campaigning against, Islamic Fascism.

Seeking to promote ones race with such causes is underhanded, counter-productive and frankly, not something I want a part of, cause...

I'm a "minority". And when they're done with the Islamonazis...

I'M NEXT.

At which point the racial purists and fascists will have a major problem on their hands :)

-WFH

re: #164 TalkinKamel

It's not politically organized but as a matter of fact I know that Churches there are doing what they can. The problem with our western civilization is that due to separation of church and government, govts can not help the churches fight the Jihadi vermins and that Churches are cash strapped.

re: #146 winston06

Yeah. I am not new here (sorta) LOL... But until now I thought Atlas was with us. What happened?

She has apparently decided to ally herself with the ideological descendents of those who almost exterminated her people a few decades ago, now that they've pinky-promised not to try again for the time being, and furthermore pledged to oppose those who are presently pledging to exterminate her people. It's like a rabbit riding on the back of a mountain lion to escape a wolf. The mountain lion just considers it to be portable lunch.

re: #127 Slumbering Behemoth

Fascism is not about racial divisions. Though it does help the instigators to have a scapegoat of some sort, and racial/religious divisions seem to be the easiest to exploit.

You are correct, fascism is not about racial divisions.
Fascism is more about conscripting the entire society for the "higher cause" at the the expense of individual rights and freedoms while putting the society above the individual need. To accomplish that (since it is against the hedonistic self-centered human nature) the fascist ideology must have the "arch nemesis". The easiest way is to pick someone obviously different from the public the fascist is trying to appeal to - racially, culturally or religiously.

And I know TalkinKamel will remember our dear, dear friends in the nazi parties of europe beating up on feminist groups.

How are they different from the islamists we're trying to fight if they hate "others" and feminists?

re: #167 Salamantis

thats very unfortunate

re: #148 rightymouse

No.

My point was to say that I understand to some degree why ms. Geller has taken and advocated for her positions.

They are NOT my positions.

Look, European Jewry was almost annihilated and those who weren't liquidated have, most recently, emigrated because it is becoming increasingly dangerous for Jews to stay.

That the Nazi's and the Islamists will do battle for control of Europe is one of many possible scenarios.

My view is that Europe is already lost, the effects of which haven't yet been felt.

I do NOT support what may be the Ethno-Religious war that may some day (soon) arrive.

It is a tragedy.

Still, I have some sympathy for why Ms. Geller has adopted her positions, NOT sympathy with her positions.

re: #148 rightymouse

Nazis are not about to save Jews.

They consider Jews the ultimate enemy. And---helloooo---they're not to crazy about us decadent Americans, either.

Pamela is an emotional and volatile person and emotional and volatile people tend to do emotional and volatile things.

Somebody who can post there needs to tell "Denice" that it is a real article.
[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]
She comments in detail about a rape Bill Ayer's planned for her.

re: #125 winston06

Winston06, I'm as lost as you on this.

re: #125 winston06

Someone tell me whats wrong with Atlas Shrugs. I thought she was one of the good guys. What happened to her?

This quote which she ignores.

One of the reasons why hardcore anti-Semites (David Duke would be a case in point) are unreliable allies is that they hate Jews so much that it shuts down the rational parts of their brain and they end up making common cause with Muslims, based on mutual hatred.

She's an unreliable ally because she's tied into pepole that hate because of race/religion. It's hard core Radical Islamic Fundamentalists that are teh problem, when you tar everyone with the same brush not only are you unjust but push peole to the other side.

re: #137 TalkinKamel

re: #114 LotharBot
.... why reject a possible ally, da?

.... who are we going to ally ourselves with, when our Euro-Facist "allies" turn on us?

Exactly. The euro-fascists are not "allies". They're enemies who happen to also be enemies of the islamofascists. I wish Fjordman and Pam would treat them that way, instead of acting as apologists for them.

re: #140 Twilight

I maybe old fashioned, but I honestly believe that opposition to evil should be based on the democratic values as expressed by the American Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Human Rights in general. Any ideology that would reject or infringe on what is said in those two documents (all brands of fascism - white, red, Islamic - fall in this category) is evil because it goes against the common scene of freedom that allows us to be all that we want to be without any regard to race, gender, social status or whatever. I will never ally myself to such evil, no matter what the cause is, and I will always fight fascism in all its ugly forms, just like my father and grandfather before me.

Generally I agree, but I must point out that in fighting fascism during WWII, our government chose to ally strategically with Stalin. In the course of history, sometimes questionable alliances will force themselves even upon the good. I believe that even some commenting here at LGF could accept a situation, should the battle become so hot, that for the moment, a tactical alliance with fascistic anti-jihadis might become necessary--but always keeping in mind that the partners were fascists indeed and that we did not accept their ideologies.

re: #175 yah

I think I am now getting a clearer picture of this

Even in the U.S.A. several years ago already, the white supremists and like went on a "clean up their image" program. To become, act, look and talk more mainstream. To present themselves as less radical and make themselves over to appear less "threatening" to get more accepted.

Strangely enough, they also linked up with many of the "new age" group. Or at least adopted that "new age" type lifestyle and rhetoric. But they also seem to be playing to the "end times" and prophecy-conspiracy theory crowd.

re: #135 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Exactly right KZ, they are stealing a noble cause and diminishing it with their stupidity. They will adapt any cause to stage their theater. What's most disturbing about VB is their international outreach to other tribal nationalist groups. They ally with some of the violent Central and South American groups as well as the Euro ones, and there are definite ties to David Duke and the Stormfront crowd, as Charles has pointed out in several articles here. They also support the Quebecois separatists even though they hate the French in Belgium simply because they are also tribal purists. The list goes on and on.

re: #160 TalkinKamel

I know, I know. . . and David Duke hangs out with the European white-supremecists.

This is not hunky-dory.

Somehow, Pamela et al haven't quite figured that out yet. Europe has a mess on their hands, but it won't be solved by inviting people into a 'common cause' only to find out later that they were going to be part of the final solution too. Then it's too late.

I think Charles could help some of us out with a primer of the Euro fascists and white nationalists. I know it might be a lot of work, but he probably has the info close at hand. Is there a "Right" (libertarian, or at least free market) in Europe? Maybe it could be available permanently as a link on the main page?

We know all about white supremacists here where I live. We had to leave our church, 'cause a couple of deacons testified for the Klan, then forced out our pastor and those of us who didn't like it (this isn't ancient history, it's been less than two years). Fascist terror, and "minor" things like segregated services (White vs. Black & Red) are all within living memory. White folks spanked my wife's language out of her when she was a small child in boarding school. My own children's schools had separate, segregated proms. I DO NOT take white supremacists lightly. I just find it hard to believe there's no organized parties in Europe that pass our stringent ideological purity test.

I guess I need to be edumacated. Is there a Cliff's Notes, are Eurofascists for Dummies?

re: #49 buzzsawmonkey

I used to enjoy some of Pamela's rants--though not the fact that her slow-loading site made them hard to read.

Yeah b/c of all the graphics her site can be excruciatingly slow to read and I have a ton of memory in my computer.

re: #178 ContraJihadi

The alliance with Stalin got us 45 years of a Cold War that was several times quite close to heat up and claimed many many victims. Was it worth it? Do we want to repeat it? I don't think so (on both questions).

I always thought history existed so we could learn from mistakes of the past, not repeat them.

#171 MeTooThen

Still, I have some sympathy for why Ms. Geller has adopted her positions, NOT sympathy with her positions.

Get me some Tylenol.

re: #183 Tom on the rez

Search LGF for "Fjordman" and (iirc) Gates of Vienna.

re: #183 Tom on the rez

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #172 TalkinKamel

Nazis are not about to save Jews.

They consider Jews the ultimate enemy. And---helloooo---they're not to crazy about us decadent Americans, either.

You got that straight.

re: #166 winston06

Well, quite honestly, a Western church really hasn't had an army of its own to command in the international field since Napoleon disbanded the Order of Knights Hospitalers. *And, to be perfectly honest, I really don't want to see any of the current western governments start a warrior/military religious order; they'd surely bungle the job. I think we're better off with a citizen army, of no one particular religion, and defending the religious freedoms of those like the European churches you mention.

Western governments, traditionally, have always some kind of separation of church and state. Even in the time of the Crusades, the role of the church, and the role of the king, were two very different things. No Christian king was ever considered head of both the church AND his kingdom, the way the Islamic Caliph was both the secular, and religious head of the ummah---no, not even the kings of Jerusalem.

I'm glad to hear the European churches are doing such good work.

*A crusade is a voluntary thing; the Pope could call on knights and great lords to defend the Holy Land, and promise them remittance of their sins if they did so, but he couldn't command them to go there, and he didn't ride at the head of their armies, or come up with military tactics.

Back about 2 years ago, I recorded several of Fjordman's essays, as they were NOT THEN openly racist...

I have since taken them off the internet and off the market.

I support the Oneness of Humankind, the equality of men and women and the Independent Investigation of Reality, and Fjordman has demonstrated that, at least for now, he is allying with racists.

The end cannot justify the means. Ever.

re: #185 Twilight

The alliance with Stalin got us 45 years of a Cold War that was several times quite close to heat up and claimed many many victims. Was it worth it? Do we want to repeat it? I don't think so (on both questions).

I always thought history existed so we could learn from mistakes of the past, not repeat them.

I won't dispute what you say. I merely point out that such an alliance was made. Could the U.S. and Britain have prevailed against Hitler and the rest of the Axis without such an alliance? I must confess that I do not know.

I would suggest that in fighting the jihad, one of the questions that needs to be asked is, Can we succeed without some kind of alliance with the "softer" blood-and-soil cadres, even if we never ally with the "harder" fascists? Again, I do not know.

I will say that I trust McCain more than I trust Obama to make the more realistic decision.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Matthew 16:26

...weigh the good that they do with the hurt that cometh of them, and yet shall find it much better to lack both than have both.

From Thomas More's Reflections on Complicity with Evil in the History of King Richard III.

The best way to stop the Islamization of Europe is to STOP further moslem immigration, period. Assimilate the current immigrant population.

Harsh, but it doesn't involve any fascist tactics.

There are many countries in the world that prohibit immigration, except to a select few or class.

re: #185 Twilight

Myself, I have serious doubts as to whether or not it was really worth it, or, even if it was necessary to ally ourselves with Stalin at the height of the fighting, it was wise to keep the alliance going as long as we did; maybe we should have followed Churchill's advice, and declared war on Russia after Berlin and Japan surrendered. . .

And, of course, Russia's alliance with Germany didn't work out very well for Russia. . .

re: #183 Tom on the rez

I've got some background on Vlaams Belang here and here.

Hard to believe that this is coming from someone that Charles once mentored:

Posted by: Pamela Geller | Tuesday, September 23, 2008 at 08:39 PM

What is your obsession with meeting Charles Johnson's degenerate standards? He is a con-man.

re: #189 rightymouse

{Righty!}

:>)

re: #198 irish rose

Hard to believe that this is coming from someone that Charles once mentored:

Does indicate a person who is submerged in resentful emotion, no?

re: #193 ContraJihadi

I will say that I trust McCain more than I trust Obama to make the more realistic decision.

I agree with you on this one except I don't trust Obama at all. Not even with a toy gun.

re: #183 Tom on the rez

Vlaams Belang
British National Party
National Alliance
National Front
Danish People's Party
National Socialist Front
Freedom Party of Austria

In my post #196 above, I should have said "it wasn't wise" to keep the alliance going as long as we did.

Apologies!

re: #199 TalkinKamel

{Righty!}

:>)

:)~

re: #186 rightymouse

You have a headache?

Why?

Can you not understand how or why someone makes a deal with the Devil?

Desperate times? Desperate Measures?

I don't know Pamela Geller from Eve. And to be clear, the issue is not about her.

The question is: "How should Jews (or Gentiles) respond to the existential threat that is Radical Islam?"

For the White brigades, VB, et al, it is not an existential threat, per se, but a threat to their own fantasies of domination (and extermination.)

That Ms. Geller is willing to put aside, for the moment her objections to the Nazis for the sake of her wish to defeat the Islamists, is understandable for some. Not correct, nor right, nor advisable.

But understandable.

I think Charles has been fair with her, and appropriately harsh with Fjordman. What is so aggravating about that?

re: #200 ContraJihadi

Does indicate a person who is submerged in resentful emotion, no?

Self-PITY, Contra!
Self-Pity is THE most addictive substance known to humankind! Free, readily available and instant-acting, it is pernicious and destructive, but ooooh, it feels SO GOOD to wallow in it!

Gotta gota werk... bbiaw

re: #196 TalkinKamel

And, of course, Russia's alliance with Germany didn't work out very well for Russia. . .

Fascists of different brands are like rabid dogs - with nothing left in close proximity to attack they turn on each other. The reds and the whites in this case. It was all about who lands the first strike and the whites won the race.

re: #193 ContraJihadi

Actually, we could have. We spent as assload supporting the commies. No support would not have stopped the Soviets from fighting the Nazi. It would have prolonged it. Which would have made teh borders of post WWII europe quite different. But much of the reason that we supported Stalin was because of Duranty and others.

re: #201 Twilight

I agree with you on this one except I don't trust Obama at all. Not even with a toy gun.

I "trust" him to bully Congress into outlawing toy bullets and toy guns. The man is a Manchurian candidate--a proxy for Soros, Wright, and Ayres--nothing else.

re: #207 Twilight

Exactly!

The phrase 'selling my soul to save my ass' comes to mind from the comments and linked article. On the race front, did none of these people have parents that bought them the Seuss book 'the
Star Bellied Sneeches'? I guess not, because they sound as infantile as the characters in that book.

re: #205 MeTooThen

My problem is tossing aside reason for the sake of expediency. The problem is- you've already tossed aside reason. Reason is lost- you no longer have it on your side because you have forsaken it. And for what? To green-light nazis.

There is no excuse. None.

re: #205 MeTooThen

You have a headache?

Why?

Can you not understand how or why someone makes a deal with the Devil?

Desperate times? Desperate Measures?

I don't know Pamela Geller from Eve. And to be clear, the issue is not about her.

The question is: "How should Jews (or Gentiles) respond to the existential threat that is Radical Islam?"

For the White brigades, VB, et al, it is not an existential threat, per se, but a threat to their own fantasies of domination (and extermination.)

That Ms. Geller is willing to put aside, for the moment her objections to the Nazis for the sake of her wish to defeat the Islamists, is understandable for some. Not correct, nor right, nor advisable.

But understandable.

I think Charles has been fair with her, and appropriately harsh with Fjordman. What is so aggravating about that?

I would never, ever make a deal with the Devil for the sake of expediency. The idea that someone actually thinks that's an ok idea gives me a headache.

Pass me the Tylenol.

You ever read C.S. Lewis?

Well they sure have a good line of propaganda.

re: #193 ContraJihadi

Your analogy is flawed. Stalin at the time of WWII was not known as an "evil dictator." (The New York Times hushed up Stalin's atrocities -- the famine in the Ukraine, according to the NY Times did not occur -- the peasants were fat and happy, etc.) And at the end of the war, Russia (and Stalin -- that's "Uncle Joe") were celebrated as heroes -- parades in their honor -- again, celebrated. It was Winston Churchill who didn't like Stalin and made his warnings known to Truman...(then the Cold War began, etc.)

re: #208 Quilly Mammoth

Not to mention the fact that our "allies" the Communists let us do the heavy fighting in the Pacific, keeping Japan (which had fought with Russia before) from giving them too much trouble.

Russia really needed us a lot more than we needed them, I think.

Didn't Charles refuse to condemn the Sweden Democrats of collusion with fascists, saying that the evidence he'd seen for such a collusion was inconclusive? Or has anything else been discovered about them since then?

re: #205 MeTooThen

Oh, I can understand how someone can make a deal with the devil.

I just think it's a bad idea. Such deals usually work out better for the Devil, than they do for the poor sucker who signs away his soul.

re: #209 ContraJihadi

I "trust" him to bully Congress into outlawing toy bullets and toy guns. The man is a Manchurian candidate--a proxy for Soros, Wright, and Ayres--nothing else.

But he is more. You forget who paid for his Harvard education - those people will want him to pay his dues once his in office - create a drastic increase in American dependence on OPEQ oil, God forbid.

Barack Obama is the least qualified major party nominee for the Presidency in at least 100 years. I agree with Christopher Hitchens' assessment that Obama is actually scared that he might win the Presidency! Sort of reminds me of the Robert Redford 1972 movie "The Candidate" where his character, newly elected Senator McKay, says to his campaign manager (Peter Boyle) at the very end after winning the election "What do we do now?"

And, unfortunately, all the understanding in the world won't make a stupid/dangerous/evil decision a right one. That's just how it is.

re: #31 The Other Les

I was just thinking the same thing.

re: #208 Quilly Mammoth

Actually, we could have. We spent as assload supporting the commies. No support would not have stopped the Soviets from fighting the Nazi. It would have prolonged it. Which would have made teh borders of post WWII europe quite different. But much of the reason that we supported Stalin was because of Duranty and others.

You probably know more than I do. I am just trying to generalize from that fact that the alliance was made and to ponder the fact that throughout history many such alliances have been made. I suppose a war effort under a President Wilkie(sp?) would not have included an alliance with Stalin, but for there to have been a President Wilkie, the majority of voters would have had to have repudiated the concept of the New Deal. ...

Wheels within wheels, and my knowledge is paltry.

re: #217 Salamantis

IIRC, the Swedish Democrats have made moves at actually removing their nazis from within. However- there was a story later about a nazi presence still in the party.

re: #190 TalkinKamel

I have a different opinion there; I believe the Western Church needs a new militant order. Staffed by men of long service in military and law enforcement who come to orders late in life.

The new militant order should be unarmed; but advise on security and safety measures. This is an old mission, back to the original charter of the Hospitalers, but so many evils and injustices can be solved without violence by resolute men who understand violence.

===

BTW I dropped in on Pamela's site and reiterated my tired, well-worn plea for a Eurpoean WFB to step up.

Of course ideologically, Naziism and Islamism are intrinsically similar (hence the well-used term "Islamofascism"). That alone explains why no group that is truly ideologically against Islamism can ally itself with Neo-nazis or other fascists.

The reality *ought* to be that anti-Islamist movements are based on a core of resistance to militant expansion of Islam and violence, coupled with a strong respect for individual rights like freedoms of speech, religion, etc.

But from a distance, pretty much *any* anti-Jihad movement is going to look like a racist or anti-religious one, by its very nature. That's certainly how every anti-Islamist website (including this one) is painted.

So for reasons that should be incredibly obvious, no anti-Islamist movement can afford to associate with actual racists and fascists. That sort of association simply undermines any ideological legitimacy of the movement.

re: #202 Sharmuta

Vlaams Belang
British National Party
National Alliance
National Front
Danish People's Party
National Socialist Front
Freedom Party of Austria

Karel Dillen
Maurice Bardeche
Jean Marie LePen

Note that Jihad Watch gets a reference link on the page, right underneath the english translation of "Nuremberg the Promised Land" on the Karel Dillen page.

re: #216 TalkinKamel

Not to mention the fact that our "allies" the Communists let us do the heavy fighting in the Pacific, keeping Japan (which had fought with Russia before) from giving them too much trouble.

Russia really needed us a lot more than we needed them, I think.

The USSR had her hands full fighting Nazi Germany. 75 - 80% of the German armed forces were concentrated against the USSR. Funny how before the Nazi invasion of the USSR on 6/22/41 (when the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was still in effect) the communists in the West and their fellow travelers all were denouncing Britain's ''plutocratic, imperialist war'', then all of a sudden they were demanding "Second Front now'!

re: #209 ContraJihadi

I "trust" him to bully Congress into outlawing toy bullets and toy guns. The man is a Manchurian candidate--a proxy for Soros, Wright, and Ayres--nothing else.

I would say strictly for Soros, the others were used as stepping stones to his current position, but are just liabilities now.

re: #216 TalkinKamel

Most historians allege that the turning point in WWII came with the Battle of Stalingrad -- it's when Russian forces surrounded and defeated Hitler's army...(incredible losses were incurred on both sides...but the losses were far more crippling for the nazis...up until that time an Allied victory was iffy at best... )

re: #216 TalkinKamel

Not to mention the fact that our "allies" the Communists let us do the heavy fighting in the Pacific, keeping Japan (which had fought with Russia before) from giving them too much trouble.

Russia really needed us a lot more than we needed them, I think.

-------------
Russia couldn't fight on two fronts, that's why they kept peace with Japan.

Germany fought on two fronts, with the eastern front by far the larger front with the most casualties. Had Germany not invaded Russia the entire war I think would have turned out differently.
The US didn't enter until late '41.

re: #230 J.S.

Most historians allege that the turning point in WWII came with the Battle of Stalingrad -- it's when Russian forces surrounded and defeated Hitler's army...(incredible losses were incurred on both sides...but the losses were far more crippling for the nazis...up until that time an Allied victory was iffy at best... )

I agree although one can even make a case that the turning point was the failure of the Germans in the Battle of Moscow (Oct 1941 - January 1942). Even after Stal;ing rad the Wehrmacht had incredibly striking power until they frittered away their armored reserves in the massive and unbelievably bloody summer battles around Kursk and the Dnieper River.

re: #231 right_on_target

You are right. Only the USA was able because of our superior industrial might - fight a two ocean war.

re: #215 J.S.

Your analogy is flawed. Stalin at the time of WWII was not known as an "evil dictator." (The New York Times hushed up Stalin's atrocities -- the famine in the Ukraine, according to the NY Times did not occur -- the peasants were fat and happy, etc.) And at the end of the war, Russia (and Stalin -- that's "Uncle Joe") were celebrated as heroes -- parades in their honor -- again, celebrated. It was Winston Churchill who didn't like Stalin and made his warnings known to Truman...(then the Cold War began, etc.)

Are you sure? Some people certainly knew it. The Norman-Thomas pluralistic socialists knew it. The Trotskyites, Hitch's "ancestors," knew it, as did George Orwell and his brand of democratic socialists. Did Roosevelt know it, or if he knew, did he care? Or if he cared, did he nevertheless calculate that it did not matter? That I do not know.

re: #232 Joel

Yes, the Battle of Kursk (the tank battle...) has also been claimed as the turning point...

re: #234 ContraJihadi

There's a very famous telegram of Roosevelt's (you can find it on the internet) filled with gushing praises for Stalin...Roosevelt was heralding Stalin as a great man who'll go down in history as a tremendous hero, never to be forgotten, etc.

re: #227 Thanos

Karel Dillen
Maurice Bardeche
Jean Marie LePen

Note that Jihad Watch gets a reference link on the page, right underneath the english translation of "Nuremberg the Promised Land" on the Karel Dillen page.

Jörg Haider

And why am I not surprised by the Dillen link?

re: #236 J.S.

There's a very famous telegram of Roosevelt's (you can find it on the internet) filled with gushing praises for Stalin...Roosevelt was heralding Stalin as a great man who'll go down in history as a tremendous hero, never to be forgotten, etc.

Roosevelt called him "Uncle Joe", IIRC.

Churchill had his number, though.

Posted by: de La Valette | Tuesday, September 23, 2008 at 09:14 PM

In my opinion as I have said before I believe Mr Johnson to be mentally ill. As a guess I would say he is probably bipolar with a touch of schizo affective disorder. That so many are drawn to his site frightens me.

Wow.

re: #238 rightymouse

I believe you're correct...(and Churchill was able to convince Truman of Stalin's nastiness...)

When (God forbid) Obama gets into the White House along with a veto proof congress, watch for him to show his fascist tendencies by trying to regulate and/or effectively shut down talk radio, Fox News, the blogosphere - with shit like the "Fairness Doctrine". The MSM which is uniformly neo-Socialist and almost completely in the tank for Obama will not raise a peep of protest. Remember when they were comparing Attorney General Ashcroft to Heinrich Himmler? Barry-O will also look to get as many Ramsey Clark types as judges. Those dumb ass Republican ideologues and so called "Conservatives" can stick their 'purity" up their sphincters. The country's future is at stake and there will not be a replay of 1980 or 1994 after the inevitable Obama disaster. I have my issues with McCain but the man is far and away a better man then The One and far more qualified to be President. Those of you (hopefully this includes all of us) who make more than $42,000 a year, watch the Federal government take more of your paycheck away for bull shit "social spending" and "income redistribution". There is not a single Democratic Senator who does not know in his/her heart of hearts that Obama has not the slightest clue on how to be President and who thinks that he can learn on the fly. I was going to vote for McCain but never made a contribution in my life but my next paycheck is going to be $100 poorer as I will be sending a "C" note to the McCain-Palin camp.

re: #225 de La Valette

In my opinion as I have said before I believe Mr Johnson to be mentally ill. As a guess I would say he is probably bipolar with a touch of schizo affective disorder. That so many are drawn to his site frightens me.

Is this what you posted as atlas'?!

re: #232 Joel

I agree although one can even make a case that the turning point was the failure of the Germans in the Battle of Moscow (Oct 1941 - January 1942). Even after Stal;ing rad the Wehrmacht had incredibly striking power until they frittered away their armored reserves in the massive and unbelievably bloody summer battles around Kursk and the Dnieper River.

---------------------------
I agree there. That's where my father's unit got decimated [Tenth Panzer Division]. They were sent back to France to regroup. Before he left for reassignment he had leave. While on leave my mother asked him if he wanted her uncle's address in the USA, just in case. His reply was "NO, I'll be dead. The war is lost. Damn Nazis" He was shipped out to Africa to join the Afrika Korps [10PD Aufklärungs-Abteilung 90] where eventually the Korps surrendered.
Spent the rest of the war in Memphis POW camp.
After war, my great-uncle sponsored our family to immigrate to the USA.
We've been here since.

re: #240 J.S.

I believe you're correct...(and Churchill was able to convince Truman of Stalin's nastiness...)

I have a lot of admiration for Truman - he made some very difficult decisions when Roosevelt died in 1945. But they were the right ones and the war ended.

re: #236 J.S.

There's a very famous telegram of Roosevelt's (you can find it on the internet) filled with gushing praises for Stalin...Roosevelt was heralding Stalin as a great man who'll go down in history as a tremendous hero, never to be forgotten, etc.

Do you think Roosevelt was candid in his praise? Or just politic? I confess I do not accurately comprehend just how much Roosevelt actually admired Stalin and the kind of supreme control over the state Stalin possessed. It certainly seems that Roosevelt harbored some grandiose ambitions (e.g. Court packing and the command economy generally), but I have no insight at all into whether he believed his powers had any proper limits.

re: #240 J.S.

I believe you're correct...(and Churchill was able to convince Truman of Stalin's nastiness...)

FDR was too naive. about Stalin. He thought of Stalin as another politician he could charm. He even coined the phrase "Uncle Joe" - talk about sickening sycophancy!

Wow......I just read through the comments on that site.

The language in her replies does not even sound like the same Atlas Shrugged who used to post here a few years back.

I've been down the road with their 'friends', and an outfit called 'mohammedans against sharia', although I will not pimp that little garbage dump by linking to it. Trust me, she's listed as a contributor. A fouler mouth I've never heard than the one that showed up elsewhere to pimp their site. They touted their affiliation with Pamela no less, as if that lent them some gravitas. Meanwhile, they couldn't defend their absurd beliefs, such as the fact that (according to them) allah could not have said what he did in the koran because that would be like, absurd. So, their response is to take a boxcutter to it and eliminate everything they think is out of line with a friendlier, softer version of the pig - without a sty to wallow in. Fruitcakes. They draw them like flies.

re: #218 TalkinKamel

I agree, it's a bad deal. But understandable.

What is surprising is that more Jews, like Ms. Geller, haven't already joined forces with the Nazis.

For many (or most) Israelis, they are tired of being Jews. They just want to be Israelis, people, beach-goers, builders, artists, writers, mechanics, librarians, whatever. But they cannot escape their Jewishness, or for that, they are targeted, butchered, murdered in their homes, schools, shops, buses.

One solution is to surrender, ala Peres, Olmert, Livni, and hope for the best.

The other is to fight. Or, have someone fight on your behalf. It is this last choice that has heretofore, been unavailable. That some are willing to choose the White brigades, shows their desperation.

My comment was made to highlight Charles sound (and compassionate) judgment, not to advocate for Ms. Geller's choice.

re: #243 right_on_target

What a coincidence. My father was a MP and guarded German POW's from the Afrika Korps throughout the South including Tennessee. I wonder if they met. Many Americans have no idea about the vastness of the battles of the Eastern Front - Kursk, Operation Bagration, The Rzhev meat grinder, Kahrkov, the numbers are staggering. The Allied losses on D-Day would have been considered a quiet day on the Eastern Front.

re: #190 TalkinKamel

This time, it is their fight

re: #247 Nancy

I always felt her posts here were rather disjointed, myself. They didn't seem to reflect her writing style on her blog, at all.

At some point, the rapidly shrinking number of people in the northern hemisphere who haven't been banned from the site yet will be forced to ask themselves whether the website and its owner have simply switched teams and joined the Dark Side.

Hey, since when have you been a Sith Lord, Charles?  Is there an extra Zionist stipend in it?

Man, Fjordboy pulls his polemic more than his penis ...

I do admit to being a bit hurt by Pamela's reaction, why exactly is she upset over you or I or every other lizard here exerting our freedom to choose?  Does she want to control or eliminate our freedoms and force us to attend 'the right folk'?  It's all too Animal Farm-ish for me.

}:)     [Fjordboy doesn't surprize, though, he appears to be fascist to the soles of his feet.]

re: #241 Joel

When (God forbid) Obama gets into the White House along with a veto proof congress, watch for him to show his fascist tendencies by trying to regulate and/or effectively shut down talk radio, Fox News, the blogosphere - with shit like the "Fairness Doctrine". The MSM which is uniformly neo-Socialist and almost completely in the tank for Obama will not raise a peep of protest. Remember when they were comparing Attorney General Ashcroft to Heinrich Himmler? Barry-O will also look to get as many Ramsey Clark types as judges. ....

Obama, should he capture the White House certainly will so all he can to impose his progressive will on the Federal Communications Administration, and it is then that we shall be be thankful that Conservative activists convinced Bush to nominate Alito rather than Meiers.

re: #249 MeTooThen

You never answered my question as to whether you've read C.S. Lewis. Well?

Yakoke, Sharmuta, et al. I bookmarked the info so I can go back and learn when I have the time. I hate F'n Illinois nazis. But foreigners? I don't owe those folks a thing. Woodrow Wilson might have given Bill Clinton and W. Bush their foreign policy, but he was a racist asshole.

re: #242 Sharmuta

re: #225 de La Valette

In my opinion as I have said before I believe Mr Johnson to be mentally ill. As a guess I would say he is probably bipolar with a touch of schizo affective disorder. That so many are drawn to his site frightens me.

Is this what you posted as atlas'?!

Yes, it is.
An explanation is in order, methinks.

re: #249 MeTooThen

I agree, it's a bad deal. But understandable.

What is surprising is that more Jews, like Ms. Geller, haven't already joined forces with the Nazis.

For many (or most) Israelis, they are tired of being Jews. They just want to be Israelis, people, beach-goers, builders, artists, writers, mechanics, librarians, whatever. But they cannot escape their Jewishness, or for that, they are targeted, butchered, murdered in their homes, schools, shops, buses.

One solution is to surrender, ala Peres, Olmert, Livni, and hope for the best.

The other is to fight. Or, have someone fight on your behalf. It is this last choice that has heretofore, been unavailable. That some are willing to choose the White brigades, shows their desperation.

My comment was made to highlight Charles sound (and compassionate) judgment, not to advocate for Ms. Geller's choice.

Pamela has made some unwise choices with respect to allies, but she is an ardent supporter of Israel who utterly despises the "surrender Jews" of the Left. She supports Bibi for Prime Minister, and she is a close friend of Carolyn Glick's.

re: #257 Irish Rose

Yes, it is.
An explanation is in order, methinks.

I agree. de La Valette- we're waiting.

re: #239 irish rose
re: #242 Sharmuta

That was posted by the commenter just below de la Valette:

Posted by: Azygos ¦ Tuesday, September 23, 2008 at 09:34 PM

Are ther so few freedom-lovers in Europe that they have to link up with fascists to have any numbers? Is it a money problem? Why do they prostitute their ideology...or maybe they have forgotten how to stand up for what they believe? Or maybe they are unsure of what they believe. The whole thing is weird. How does linking up with these fascists help them, long-term? It just doesnt. It is the kiss of death.

re: #255 rightymouse

You never answered my question as to whether you've read C.S. Lewis. Well?

Perhaps you should specify which C.S. Lewis book you're talking about; it's quite possible to have read a lot of C.S. Lewis without having read the specific passage you have in mind.

(Note that I've been arguing on the same side as you for this whole thread -- don't "ally" with evil. I just think you can make your point better.)

re: #260 justadot

Thank you. de La Valette- my apologies.

re: #262 LotharBot

Perhaps you should specify which C.S. Lewis book you're talking about; it's quite possible to have read a lot of C.S. Lewis without having read the specific passage you have in mind.

(Note that I've been arguing on the same side as you for this whole thread -- don't "ally" with evil. I just think you can make your point better.)

Oh, I'm sorry. I was talking to 'Me Too Then". Do you have two nics here?