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Overnight Open Thread

Open | Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:08:33 pm PDT

“This is our island. It’s a good island. Until the grown-ups come to fetch us we’ll have fun.”

William Golding, Lord of the Flies

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950 comments

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1 Moe Katz  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:11:55pm

I have a concern about dinging spinoff links

2 Wyatt Earp  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:13:32pm
3 Moe Katz  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:13:41pm

Someone---actually it's rarely me---posts a link about someone we hate, or something that we dislike. It may be a good link to something even outrageous, but it gets dinged down. The dinging down is really a way of booing. But the person posting may have done right. Kind of a conundrum.

4 wiffersnapper  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:14:50pm

Never read LotF

5 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:14:58pm

Only one real issue in the $700b bailout, and that's the way treasury decides how much to pay for assets.

And of course, it needs to all be completely public.

6 zombie  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:15:56pm
“This is our island. It’s a good island. Until the grown-ups come to fetch us we’ll have fun.”

— William Golding, Lord of the Flies

"This is our island. It is populated by buffoonish Russian spies and people in gorilla suits. Until we get cancelled, let's have some fun."

-- Bob Denver, Gilligan's Island

7 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:16:17pm

I already said good night on one of the earlier threads, but I dropped in again so I could drop off a bit of night music.

Good night again.

8 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:16:39pm

Honestly I can't say whether the 700B is justified or not in terms of whether it benefits those of us who didn't get into financial trouble. Our economy is so interconnected that it might be unavoidable. I wish we could have some serious analysis of the pros/cons but I can't find it anywhere.

9 Danny  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:17:41pm

I saw Club Spongebob and the magic conch. That's enough for me.

10 gmsc  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:19:28pm

If Democrats are so opposed to "guilt by association", then I have two suggestions:

1) Stop sending hate mail to news anchor Cindy Michaels just because she looks like Sarah Palin.

2) Resume drinking your Chilean organic wine, Palin Syrah, and don't worry about the name.

Those two steps will go a long way towards proving you mean what you say about the horrors of "guilt by association".

11 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:19:55pm

Bill Bruford, drums;
Jeff Berlin, bass;
Charles 'Icarus' Johnson, guitar
- Musician's Institute, Hollywood 1981
half minute sound sample. This is from a torrent on the dimeadozen site.

:^)

12 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:20:01pm

I thought it was Gilligan's Island....

13 del  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:20:20pm

I saw a report about Gulf Islands National Seashore in Mississippi and the Chandeleur Islands (Breton NWR) in LA, earlier today, which described damage by Hurricane Ike, compounding damage by Katrina. Couldn't find it when i wanted to go back to it...Anyone else see it?

[Link: earthobservatory.nasa.gov...]

[Link: www.fws.gov...]

14 zombie  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:21:22pm

re: #11 Abu Al-Poopypants

Aw, it says "Forbidden -- no access." That is a super-rare clip! Any way of uploading it elsewhere?

15 Danny  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:21:47pm

re: #11 Abu Al-Poopypants

Won't let me in?

16 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:21:58pm

re: #8 EIDE_Interface

Honestly I can't say whether the 700B is justified or not in terms of whether it benefits those of us who didn't get into financial trouble. Our economy is so interconnected that it might be unavoidable. I wish we could have some serious analysis of the pros/cons but I can't find it anywhere.

The cons are bank accounts zeroed, the entire banking system collapses, people might not accept those little pieces of paper with presidents on them and give you something to eat.

17 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:22:18pm

Damn, sorry.

18 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:22:50pm

Let me see if I can put it up somewhere else.

19 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:22:51pm

re: #16 itellu3times

The cons are bank accounts zeroed, the entire banking system collapses, people might not accept those little pieces of paper with presidents on them and give you something to eat.

I want a lot of government officials and CEOs put into prison as the price of this bailout.

20 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:24:05pm

re: #19 EIDE_Interface

I want a lot of government officials and CEOs put into prison as the price of this bailout.

I want them stripped of assets first. Of course, start that, and they all run for the border.

If they haven't already.

21 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:28:40pm

re: #20 itellu3times

I want them stripped of assets first. Of course, start that, and they all run for the border.

If they haven't already.

But at the same time, people who signed for loans they couldn't afford shouldn't be bailed out. Let them suffer.

22 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:29:47pm

Just had the honor of registering earlier today after months of lurking. Hope I can keep up the lofty standards of you all.

23 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:30:08pm

re: #22 Joe Six Pack

Just had the honor of registering earlier today after months of lurking. Hope I can keep up the lofty standards of you all.

Welcome! We're mostly friendly here.

24 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:32:12pm

On the plus side, the Red Sox are going to the postseason again. Just a matter of how Tampa finishes up to see who gets the Wild Card and who gets the AL East title.

When are they going to blow up Yankee stadium?

25 victor_yugo  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:32:32pm

re: #21 EIDE_Interface

But at the same time, people who signed for loans they couldn't afford shouldn't be bailed out. Let them suffer.

But if they can actually afford the loan, what's the point of applying for it?

/catch-22

26 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:33:31pm

re: #25 victor_yugo

But if they can actually afford the loan, what's the point of applying for it?

/catch-22

Huh? I'm paying my loan back for 2.5 years now because I can afford it. Of course I did 20% down and prime rate.

27 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:34:19pm

re: #23 EIDE_Interface

Welcome! We're mostly friendly here.

Thanks! I tend to keep my pearls of wisdom gravitating towards being in agreement most of you, since we all, or rather most of us seem to lean right.

28 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:35:11pm

re: #27 Joe Six Pack

Thanks! I tend to keep my pearls of wisdom gravitating towards being in agreement most of you, since we all, or rather most of us seem to lean right.

I'm not one for agreement for it's own sake. It's great if we arrive there, but free thought is king for me. Not for all though, not going to speak for everyone here.

29 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:35:45pm

re: #27 Joe Six Pack

Thanks! I tend to keep my pearls of wisdom gravitating towards being in agreement most of you, since we all, or rather most of us seem to lean right.

Crap, in agreement WITH. PIMF'ing so early....

30 least  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:37:08pm

re: #27 Joe Six Pack

. . . since we all, or rather most of us seem to lean right.

That's 'cause of the big mound of . . . stuff to our left.

31 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:37:31pm

re: #28 EIDE_Interface

I'm not one for agreement for it's own sake. It's great if we arrive there, but free thought is king for me. Not for all though, not going to speak for everyone here.

Agreed. I only meant that I fit in here mucho better than DailyKooks, etc.

32 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:38:01pm

OK,

Let's try that again:
Bill Bruford, drums;
Jeff Berlin, bass;
Charles 'Icarus' Johnson, guitar
- Musician's Institute, Hollywood 1981
half minute sound sample. This is from a torrent on the dimeadozen site. It's an excerpt from the Bruford tune "Fainting In Coils".

33 victor_yugo  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:38:45pm

re: #26 EIDE_Interface

Huh? I'm paying my loan back for 2.5 years now because I can afford it. Of course I did 20% down and prime rate.

But how could you have known, 2.5 years ago, that you would still have your job (or whatever source of income you have)? How could you have known that you wouldn't be knocked down by some not-so-minor surgery or chronic/genetic illness that would interfere with your earning ability? Yes, it happens; a guy I used to work with is about 1mm away from losing his house because of hernia surgery.

The only way to know, when you're applying for a loan, that you can afford it, is to have that much in the bank already.

34 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:40:04pm

re: #30 least

That's 'cause of the big mound of . . . stuff to our left.

I have a litter box for that stuff, although the cats seem to think I work for them. Go figure.

35 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:40:21pm

re: #33 victor_yugo

But how could you have known, 2.5 years ago, that you would still have your job (or whatever source of income you have)? How could you have known that you wouldn't be knocked down by some not-so-minor surgery or chronic/genetic illness that would interfere with your earning ability? Yes, it happens; a guy I used to work with is about 1mm away from losing his house because of hernia surgery.

The only way to know, when you're applying for a loan, that you can afford it, is to have that much in the bank already.

Agreed, income is king. Well, having unlimited cash is really king. But are you saying that anyone who can't pay cash for a house shouldn't get a loan?

36 victor_yugo  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:44:36pm

re: #35 EIDE_Interface

Agreed, income is king. Well, having unlimited cash is really king. But are you saying that anyone who can't pay cash for a house shouldn't get a loan?

No, just saying your #21 is wanting for reality.

37 nigella  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:45:58pm

wow, just got in(west coast) and my head is spinning with all the news.....Obama leads by nine according to Washington Post, I know not reliable,FBI to investigate Freddie, Fannie and AIG, good I guess,And dinner jacket speaks to UN,worthless piece of shit! Sorry too much for me!What's the World coming to?

38 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:46:12pm

re: #36 victor_yugo

No, just saying your #21 is wanting for reality.

I'm talking about people who signed up for interest-only loans, subprime loans. Not people like myself who if they kept their jobs could be counted on to reliably make the payments because they remain FIXED.

39 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:47:15pm

re: #37 nigella

wow, just got in(west coast) and my head is spinning with all the news.....Obama leads by nine according to Washington Post, I know not reliable,FBI to investigate Freddie, Fannie and AIG, good I guess,And dinner jacket speaks to UN,worthless piece of shit! Sorry too much for me!What's the World coming to?

Don't trust the WaPost for anything. They are a totally anti-GOP rag. Gallup has Obama +3. That's 2 points McCain has gained in 2 days. Keep the faith!

40 HD Woman  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:48:03pm

Good morning night shift.

41 nigella  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:49:05pm

Thanks EIDE, just can't for the life of me understand how Obama, could even be running let alone be ahead.Have Americans gone this batty?

42 least  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:49:54pm

re: #32 Abu Al-Poopypants

uh . . . er . . . ahhh . . . well . . . is there a story behind that cacaphony?
I know those guys know how to play for reals.

Some folks however . . .

43 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:51:02pm

re: #41 nigella

Thanks EIDE, just can't for the life of me understand how Obama, could even be running let alone be ahead.Have Americans gone this batty?

Democrats always have the advantage in down-times because they pander more then the GOP. Plus the GOP brand is severely damaged from years of corruption and Bush's persona.

44 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:51:50pm

Guy at work comes up to me and says "I can't wait until the debate with this Sarah Palin, she can see Russia from her house, ha ha." Here in MA it's a sickeningly blue state. So I told him how Biden thinks that Roosevelt was President and on TV in 1929, and how Obambi thinks that breathalyzers treat asthma, ha ha.

45 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:52:18pm

re: #44 Abu Al-Poopypants

Guy at work comes up to me and says "I can't wait until the debate with this Sarah Palin, she can see Russia from her house, ha ha." Here in MA it's a sickeningly blue state. So I told him how Biden thinks that Roosevelt was President and on TV in 1929, and how Obambi thinks that breathalyzers treat asthma, ha ha.

I bet you got a blank stare...

46 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:52:40pm

re: #39 EIDE_Interface

Don't trust the WaPost for anything. They are a totally anti-GOP rag. Gallup has Obama +3. That's 2 points McCain has gained in 2 days. Keep the faith!

Don't buy that bullshit. Gallup/USA Today is worthless also. They all oversample- Ask more dimocrat likely voters than republicans, supposedly because there are more dimocrats. If Nobama is plus three in their rigged polls, he's most likely down 10-12 points.

47 stuiec  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:52:51pm

Piggy's got the ass-mar.

48 HD Woman  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:52:54pm

re: #41 nigella
Everytime I ask myself that, I remember Clinton got elected twice.
On a related note, what's the state count for voter fraud alert today?

Hiya Joe 6 from another lurker turned hatchling. :)

49 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:53:09pm

Cacophony!?

Granted it's an audience recording, but that tune is from one of the greatest albums of all time IMO, "One of a Kind" by Bruford.

50 nigella  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:54:08pm

EIDE, I know, but the stakes are so high this time and I fear for what will happen if Obama manages to pull this out.

51 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:55:00pm

re: #48 HD Woman

Everytime I ask myself that, I remember Clinton got elected twice.
On a related note, what's the state count for voter fraud alert today?

Hiya Joe 6 from another lurker turned hatchling. :)

First off you have to look at Clinton's wins in context. In 1992 we were in a recession, Bush had broken his "no new taxes" and seemed totally out of touch. In 1996 times were good and the incumbent wins, so no surprise. Honestly, Bob Dole was no prize.

52 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:55:24pm

re: #50 nigella

EIDE, I know, but the stakes are so high this time and I fear for what will happen if Obama manages to pull this out.

Just don't say that around Sharmuta, she'll call you a moby.

53 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:56:24pm

re: #46 Joe Six Pack

Don't buy that bullshit. Gallup/USA Today is worthless also. They all oversample- Ask more dimocrat likely voters than republicans, supposedly because there are more dimocrats. If Nobama is plus three in their rigged polls, he's most likely down 10-12 points.

I wouldn't be that optimistic. I'd like to think that the "Bradley effect" means McCain actually leads in the overall race.

54 saltmarsh  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:56:39pm

re: #50 nigella

EIDE, I know, but the stakes are so high this time and I fear for what will happen if Obama manages to pull this out.

If Obama wins, we can always move to Kenya and live with George...

55 Abu Al-Poopypants  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:56:50pm

re: #47 stuiec

Piggy's got the ass-mar.

Ha, it took me a while. I read that book 35 years ago.

56 Joe Six Pack  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:57:09pm

re: #51 EIDE_Interface

First off you have to look at Clinton's wins in context. In 1992 we were in a recession, Bush had broken his "no new taxes" and seemed totally out of touch. In 1996 times were good and the incumbent wins, so no surprise. Honestly, Bob Dole was no prize.

And Ross Perot. Without that douchebag, in 1992 Clinton loses.

57 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:57:23pm

re: #54 saltmarsh

If Obama wins, we can always move to Kenya and live with George...

I wonder by now, who hasn't been thrown under the bus by Obama? That guy will sacrifice anyone to win...

58 nigella  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:57:55pm

Sorry, for the downer, I think when it comes down to it the American people will do the right thing and send Obama back where he came from.Yeah, I know he's a Senator, but he hasn't spent much time there since he was elected as he has been running for President nearly the entire time.

59 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:58:13pm

re: #56 Joe Six Pack

And Ross Perot. Without that douchebag, in 1992 Clinton loses.

Actually other polls suggested otherwise. But the single biggest factor right now is the damaged GOP brand. Years of corruption and Bush's inept persona.

60 neocon hippie  Tue, Sep 23, 2008 11:58:25pm

re: #51 EIDE_Interface

Not to mention that in 1992 Ross Perot played spoiler by picking up 18% of the vote. Even in 1996 Clinton failed to break 50%.

61 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:00:14am

re: #16 itellu3times

The cons are bank accounts zeroed, the entire banking system collapses, people might not accept those little pieces of paper with presidents on them and give you something to eat.

The first depression 1929,
nearly 65 percent of the American population lived or worked with agriculture.
Farm production- They produced their own food- milk, eggs, bacon etc. In other words when the Depression hit most people didn't starve.
Now, maybe 10 percent work on farms or produce food products.
If we allow this stock market to fail, and I know a lot of people are pissed and think it should fail, or even be allowed to go into depression.
America and the world will have millions of people that will starve.
Just like what happened in Indonesia's economy a few years ago people will be fighting for food. People in the city's will be going into the rural areas to forage or even steal food.
I know some of you have guns and ammunition, but you could never stop the millions of hungry and desperate people coming into your homes.

It would be much better to spend even a trillion dollars or more to fix this mess. Depression would be a disaster.

62 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:00:50am

Why does corruption "damage the GOP brand" when far more than half of the corruption is with the donks?

The DNC-Media Complex owns and runs at least 3/4 of everything, that's why.

63 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:00:59am

re: #53 EIDE_Interface

I wouldn't be that optimistic. I'd like to think that the "Bradley effect" means McCain actually leads in the overall race.

Sorry to disagree, but I'd consider it the "Palin Effect". McCain's lead is much higher that the MSM wants us to believe. Who the hell believes them when they're obviously not trustworthy and in the tank for Nobama?

64 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:02:28am

re: #59 EIDE_Interface

Actually other polls suggested otherwise. But the single biggest factor right now is the damaged GOP brand. Years of corruption and Bush's inept persona.

HUH? You're way off base, dude. What polls do you read?

65 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:04:16am

re: #62 Abu Al-Poopypants

Why does corruption "damage the GOP brand" when far more than half of the corruption is with the donks?

The DNC-Media Complex owns and runs at least 3/4 of everything, that's why.

Because Republicans have to be squeaky clean due to the fact of the MSM not willing to cover Democrat scandals. If they covered each equally, then the corruption would cancel out and the election could be strictly on the issues. How much media time was devoted to Mark Foley out of all proportion? Or Larry Craig? Why the MSM is not telling us about Franklin Raines? It's because the media is just an appendage of the Democrat party.

66 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:08:27am

re: #61 ibmkeyboard

In a related vein:

A moonbat colleague of mine fears any effect Obama has on the election, whether he wins or loses. Either way, the possibility of violence looms with dread.

I broached the topic with him tonight: Is he (my colleague) ready for what may happen if The Fascist Tool Barack Obama loses? It isn't likely in our little town, but the future is an unknown until it becomes the present.

His reply: Woe to anyone who dares intrude upon his domicile.

Given his security guard experience, I don't doubt him one bit.

67 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:09:17am

No kidding. Larry Craig is a household name for playing rock/paper/scissors in the shithouse. 90% of people could not tell you who William Jefferson is.

68 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:09:30am

Oh yes.. Perot... I remember thinking he was a funny little man. Turned out not to be that funny afterall.

There was an article I read earlier today and I saved a paragraph to forward to a wayward relative.

So the economic argument may focus on something voters do understand—taxes. Here, Barack Obama can argue that he represents change. He wants higher taxes on high earners and promises "tax cuts" to 95 percent of taxpayers. Actually, they're refundable tax credits,
which means cash payments to the 40 percent or so of households who don't pay income tax. But those refundable tax credits are phased out as incomes rise, so his proposal amounts to, as my American Enterprise Institute colleagues Alex Brill and Alan Viard have written, "marginal rate hikes in disguise" on those with incomes as low as $27,000

It really set him back.

69 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:09:32am

re: #66 victor_yugo

Lock and load.

70 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:09:38am

re: #65 EIDE_Interface

Um, I think Abu Al-Poopypants was agreeing with you, or at least supporting your point.

71 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:10:32am

re: #67 Abu Al-Poopypants

No kidding. Larry Craig is a household name for playing rock/paper/scissors in the shithouse. 90% of people could not tell you who William Jefferson is.

Yeah that's proof enough. Sure the media will claim it covered every single Democrat scandal. But they covered each GOP scandal 50x more coverage. Those who would point this little fact out aren't invited to talk to Katie Couric about it.

72 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:10:56am

re: #70 victor_yugo

Um, I think Abu Al-Poopypants was agreeing with you, or at least supporting your point.

I'm just fleshing out my argument.

73 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:11:53am

re: #65 EIDE_Interface

When 70% of Americans believe the main stream media is actually hoping for and helping Nobama to win, this so-called "help" will be a hindrance in November.

74 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:13:00am

Please, please PLEASE let Joe Six Pack be right. (I don't have any confidence that it's the case, though)

75 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:14:06am

re: #55 Abu Al-Poopypants

Ha, it took me a while. I read that book 35 years ago.

Worth a re-read. William Golding was asked to comment on the James Bulger murder in England (James was a 2-year-old led off by a couple of ten-year-olds, who beat him to death with a brick). He observed at the time that Britain was becoming a lot like the island of his novel.

The original film version was made with an all-amateur cast and is still very powerful.

76 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:14:08am

re: #73 Joe Six Pack

When 70% of Americans believe the main stream media is actually hoping for and helping Nobama to win, this so-called "help" will be a hindrance in November.

Yeah but people have been known to selectively turn off their brains. I do know that newspaper subscriptions are way down, so is MSM viewership. SO there is hope. More people then ever are on the blogs.

77 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:15:32am

re: #69 EIDE_Interface

Lock and load.

Not quite, as his security guard tenure prohibited him from carrying a firearm. Then again, he did learn how to use just about anything within arm's reach as either a weapon or as body armor.

Quote: "Let the hijackers [on Flight 93] come at me. Their knives won't reach me through the seat cushion [that I'm holding]."

Yeah, he's a moonbat, but he has direct experience with hand-to-hand combat, and he appreciates the duties of a soldier.

78 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:15:38am

re: #74 Abu Al-Poopypants

What am I wrong about?

79 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:15:41am

re: #76 EIDE_Interface

More people then ever are on the blogs.

KOS, Huffpo, etc., unfortunately.

80 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:16:17am

re: #69 EIDE_Interface

Lock and load.

ha.
And some people get pissed just because they get laid off.

Corporate India is in shock after a mob of workers bludgeoned to death the chief executive who sacked them from a factory in a suburb of Delhi.
Lalit Kishore Choudhary, 47, the head of the Indian operations of Graziano Transmissions, a manufacturer of car parts that has its headquarters in Italy, died of severe head wounds on Monday after being attacked by scores of laid-off employees, police said. The incident, in Greater Noida, followed a long-running dispute between the factory’s management and workers demanding better pay and permanent contracts.

81 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:16:21am

re: #62 Abu Al-Poopypants

Heck! You took the best answer already.
It might be because the GOP know shame and don't whitewash each other'e laundrey, they hold reps to account, so one little gaffe and they're asked to step down. It stays a scandal. Trent Lott is an example.

Dem's rally round and make all kind of excuses why it's ok. Barney frank and William Jefferson are a couple of examples.

82 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:16:28am

For now I'm waiting for the debate. No point in speculating about anything until then.

83 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:17:19am

re: #78 Joe Six Pack

What am I wrong about?

I don't think most people even know they're being manipulated. People I talked to, even right-leaning ones, accepted the edited Charlie Gibson/Palin atrocity at face value.

84 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:17:47am

re: #79 Abu Al-Poopypants

KOS, Huffpo, etc., unfortunately.

There are more on center-right blogs, which are greater in number. Conservatives/libertarians are more individualistic by nature so we don't congregate to massive blogs like Daily Kos. We like to experience variety of thought, so we visit many different blogs while KosKidz basically spend the whole day on that one blog.

85 EIDE_Interface  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:18:30am

re: #83 Abu Al-Poopypants

I don't think most people even know they're being manipulated. People I talked to, even right-leaning ones, accepted the edited Charlie Gibson/Palin atrocity at face value.

That's what I mentioned a few days ago in here. Most people can't be bothered to fact-check, do the online research themselves. I don't know how we can survive as a nation without that.

86 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:20:05am

re: #83 Abu Al-Poopypants

I don't think most people even know they're being manipulated.

HA!

I resent manipulation, on a very personal level. Jesse Jackson tried that with the crowd I was in during his '88 campaign... it worked with most of them, but I knew at the time something didn't jibe.

Thank you, Jesse Jackson, for making me a conservative.

87 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:20:21am

re: #83 Abu Al-Poopypants
You are right on that, I emailed the unedited transcript to everyone I know and got 3 "shocked, stunned, etc" responses

88 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:20:46am

re: #84 EIDE_Interface

There are more on center-right blogs, which are greater in number. Conservatives/libertarians are more individualistic by nature so we don't congregate to massive blogs like Daily Kos. We like to experience variety of thought, so we visit many different blogs while KosKidz basically spend the whole day on that one blog.


KosKidz- When do they eat or sleep-
or more important,
WORK?

89 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:20:54am

re: #83 Abu Al-Poopypants

I don't think most people even know they're being manipulated. People I talked to, even right-leaning ones, accepted the edited Charlie Gibson/Palin atrocity at face value.

And tonight there will be the Katie Couric face-off with Sarah Palin!

90 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:21:46am

People don't pay attention.
I was watching the Palin interview and I could tell that her answers kept beginning and ending in mid-sentence because they were chopping up the tape, and this was as the show was airing -- the transcript wasn't available yet. I thought it was obvious. I think we're doomed to Carter II or McGovern I. ACK@!

91 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:22:50am
This is our island. It’s a good island. Until the grown-ups come to fetch us we’ll have fun

Life under Obama.

92 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:23:18am

For all you Large Hadron Collider fans, something to keep it all in perspective:

LINK

93 victor_yugo  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:25:07am

re: #91 rancher

This is our island. It’s a good island. Until the grown-ups reality comes to fetch us we’ll have fun

FIXED.

94 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:25:21am

re: #88 ibmkeyboard

I think some of the kos kids work for ethan winner & ass.

95 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:25:40am

re: #83 Abu Al-Poopypants

I don't think most people even know they're being manipulated. People I talked to, even right-leaning ones, accepted the edited Charlie Gibson/Palin atrocity at face value.

You fail to realize that the vast majority of those who wasted their time and watched that crap were in fact NOT conservatives, regardless of what they told you. I've never met one conservative who takes what the MSM as the truth.
Liberals are like children; they'll believe whatever they're told by their masters, due to their ignorance...

96 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:26:28am

From the CBS News blog.

September 22, 2008, 7:30 PM
What Would You Ask Sarah Palin?
Posted by Katie Couric


Right now I'm preparing to interview Gov. Sarah Palin, and I'm really excited about this chance to sit down with a woman who has stirred things up in the third act of a very eventful election year.

Palin elicits some strong responses from women all across the political spectrum. Her reliability factor, or that "she feels my pain" quotient, was through the roof after the Republican convention. It hovered at 60 percent in a CBS News poll, higher than any of the three men in the race. But women don't necessarily share her views on social issues.

While 67 percent of women agree with her that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, just 17 percent share her view on abortion, that it should only be legal in cases where the mother's life is at risk. The majority of women think there should be exceptions that allow abortions in cases of rape or incest.

Palin has been topic A for all of my friends, and I'm sure she is for you, as well. Would a Palin vice presidency be good for women? Is she experienced enough to be a heartbeat away from the presidency? Are her views too right of center? Will women who supported Sen. Hillary Clinton now back a McCain-Palin ticket? To many Democrats, that seems unlikely given how little the two women have in common politically. But some women were impressed by Hillary’s grit and determination and Sarah Palin’s tough talk on the stump may be striking a chord with them as well.

That said, a new poll from "Lifetime" found that neither Obama nor McCain have solidified a majority of women voters, and about 7 percent remain undecided. These women will be key to a November victory.

So all of this is a long way of telling you some of the things in my head right now as I am getting ready for the interview. Friends come up to me wondering if I'll ask about the rumors online, all the gossipy stuff that seems to sell magazines and mean so little in terms of Palin's preparedness for the job.

This election is too important, and we have only a few precious weeks left to get to know who these candidates really are. With 7 percent of women undecided, I want to serve the sisterhood (and the brotherhood, too, btw) by helping all of us make informed choices.

When I interview Gov. Palin, you won't hear "gotcha" questions about personal issues. You will hear a broad range of policy questions on topics both foreign and domestic. I hope you’ll walk away with a better sense of who this woman is politically, what she believes, and where she sees our country heading if Sen. McCain wins the election.

So many people are focused on this election. I’m a little concerned that I’m dreaming about it. I think I need to get a hobby. But this is a very critical time for all of us and for the entire country. I’d love to hear your thoughts … I won’t be able to get to everything, but believe me, I’ll try!

97 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:27:20am

re: #92 victor_yugo

For all you Large Hadron Collider fans, something to keep it all in perspective:

LINK

Cool LHC Live streaming web-cam

98 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:29:03am

re: #95 Joe Six Pack

I don't fail to realize it... they just aren't conservatives. There are at most 1/3 conservatives, but I think almost half fall into the liberal camp.

99 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:29:08am

That's about the only way I'd watch couric... I'll be looking forward to the complete transcript.

100 OtisMyMan  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:29:56am

re: #96 stuiec

Has Katie ever asked if a Democrat's views were too left of center? Does she really imagine in her wildest dreams that she, or anyone she deals with knows where center is anymore?

101 merrytexas  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:31:04am

re: #50 nigella
The fix was in from the time Oblahma gave that speech.

102 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:31:06am

re: #96 stuiec

While 67 percent of women agree with her that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, just 17 percent share her view on abortion, that it should only be legal in cases where the mother's life is at risk. The majority of women think there should be exceptions that allow abortions in cases of rape or incest.


Charles will enjoy that!
If it is true?

Didn't Dan Rather work for C Bias S?

/

103 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:31:22am

yeah, Katie's "gotcha questions" are going to be all about spinning politics, not personal stuff.

104 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:31:51am

re: #100 OtisMyMan
LMAO They are all the center of their own world, and they see themselves as being in the center. They really don't see themselves as "far-left"

105 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:32:08am

re: #95 Joe Six Pack

You fail to realize that the vast majority of those who wasted their time and watched that crap were in fact NOT conservatives, regardless of what they told you. I've never met one conservative who takes what the MSM as the truth.
Liberals are like children; they'll believe whatever they're told by their masters, due to their ignorance...

PIMF- What the MSM says...

106 Abu Al-Poopypants  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:32:38am

over and out........

107 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:33:36am

re: #100 OtisMyMan

I wonder if she'd ever compare Barack Obama's position on infants who survive abortion (that is, for letting them die rather than giving them medical care) to the percentage of American women who disagree with that position. Or even if anyone's ever surveyed American women about that question.

108 OtisMyMan  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:34:41am

re: #104 HD Woman

Marx was a moderate, Engels,eh, maybe a little meshugunah.

109 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:34:53am

Today's overnight quote could equally apply Congress.

Kill the bailout.

110 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:36:17am

re: #89 stuiec

And tonight there will be the Katie Couric face-off with Sarah Palin!

Shucks -- it won't air until next week (Sept. 29 & 30).

111 OtisMyMan  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:37:27am

re: #107 stuiec

He actually was worried more about the mother having to reconsider her decision to abort. Much more inconvenient than being left to die in a utility closet.

112 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:37:41am

re: #108 OtisMyMan

Marx was a moderate, Engels,eh, maybe a little meshugunah.



Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who was very rarely stable...

113 merrytexas  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:39:22am

re: #48 HD Woman

Everytime I ask myself that, I remember Clinton got elected twice.

Clinton only got elected because of Perot. Both times. If the idiot had been a patriot and not run as a 3rd candidate, we probably wouldn't be in the shape we're in today.

114 OtisMyMan  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:41:06am

Gotta go now, nite all.

115 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:43:18am

couric is on with mccain right now.

116 stuiec  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:43:38am

re: #111 OtisMyMan

Oh, yes. Because if you have something called a Born Alive Infants Protection Act, then you're letting the cat out of the bag regarding how such abortions are performed. (My wife is a RN who, years ago, attended at such procedures.) The vast majority of babies born in induced-labor abortions are born alive -- that is, with a heartbeat -- but only a few manage to draw a breath on their own. The others are left to die (though often my wife would swaddle them to keep the cold off them as they passed).

Say, that's an idea -- aren't candidates in the habit of hanging out at workplaces and taking a shot at doing a worker's job, to empathize with how tough it is? Why doesn't Obama go to a clinic and catch a baby or two?

117 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:50:56am

I can't fathom how the black community continues to kill their future! That they don't even acknowledge, even when told that PP was founded on racial "cleansing". How many other countries wage genocide on themselves?

Katie just had a short fluff teaser. couric is such a serious newsperson asking important questions like "What's your favorite move?"

118 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 12:51:50am

re: #33 victor_yugo

But how could you have known, 2.5 years ago, that you would still have your job (or whatever source of income you have)? How could you have known that you wouldn't be knocked down by some not-so-minor surgery or chronic/genetic illness that would interfere with your earning ability? Yes, it happens; a guy I used to work with is about 1mm away from losing his house because of hernia surgery.

The only way to know, when you're applying for a loan, that you can afford it, is to have that much in the bank already.

You can get insurance that will cover your mortgage payments in the event that you die, or become unable to work for medical reasons.

I'd suggest that the term "affordable loan" means one that you could reasonably expect to repay with your existing income, and without having to make unsustainable sacrifices. In other words, the cost of servicing your debt should be small enough that the balance of your income suffices to live on, and maybe even save a little.

119 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:01:19am

:) The grownups have come to fetch us.

120 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:01:44am

re: #117 HD Woman

I can't fathom how the black community continues to kill their future! That they don't even acknowledge, even when told that PP was founded on racial "cleansing". How many other countries wage genocide on themselves?

Katie just had a short fluff teaser. couric is such a serious newsperson asking important questions like "What's your favorite move?"

Sad but true, the answer is stupidity. Ignorance is what it is...

121 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:31:27am

TV anchor woman angers viewers for looking too much like Sarah Palin.
Some viewers demand that she change the way she looks, others are just mean.

Wonder why this site is at least 5 times slower than any other that I visit.

122 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:33:14am

re: #59 EIDE_Interface

Actually other polls suggested otherwise. But the single biggest factor right now is the damaged GOP brand. Years of corruption and Bush's inept persona.

And you wonder why you get called a moby.

123 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:37:59am

re: #122 Sharmuta

And you wonder why you get called a moby.

because he is?

just a swag on my part..... %-)

124 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:43:21am

re: #122 Sharmuta
Hiya Lady
Ya'll finally got me to look up that term, moby... I kept thinking of it refering to a big ....um uh..

125 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:44:56am

re: #124 HD Woman

It's this guy's fault.

126 Fearless Fred  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:45:14am

Hey - howdy Sharmuta, Alberta, ... everybody . . .
I just did some searching and discovered the news about miguelito's health. Last I saw he was maybe recovering from a mild stroke.
Do ya'll know much more?

Federico

127 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:46:02am

re: #125 Sharmuta

It's this guy's fault.

kinda loose with the term "guy" aren't you?

he looks a little light to me...... %-)

128 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:46:48am

re: #126 Fearless Fred

Hey - howdy Sharmuta, Alberta, ... everybody . . .
I just did some searching and discovered the news about miguelito's health. Last I saw he was maybe recovering from a mild stroke.
Do ya'll know much more?

Federico

AFAIK, it's been negative contact for weeks, which doesn't portend good things for the home team.

129 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:48:36am

re: #118 Alberta Oil Peon

...and maybe even save a little.

That's just un-American!

130 Fearless Fred  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:49:08am

re: #128 redc1c4

AFAIK, it's been negative contact for weeks, which doesn't portend good things for the home team.

Hi.

Oh, . . . I see.

Digesting.

131 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:49:50am

re: #127 redc1c4

Yeah- I'm being technical, I suppose.

re: #126 Fearless Fred

What red said, unfortunately.

132 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:51:28am

re: #127 redc1c4

kinda loose with the term "guy" aren't you?

he looks a little light to me...... %-)

Or should I say- "he's a guy.

/white smoke"?

;p

133 Fearless Fred  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:54:43am

re: #131 Sharmuta

Yeah- I'm being technical, I suppose.

re: #126 Fearless Fred

What red said, unfortunately.

Hi again Shar --

Wow. I really love Miguel. Hmmm, . . .
Looked like realwest was intermittently in touch ... might he know more?

134 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 1:55:53am

Yeah, saw that when I looked it up. :P It gave me a tinge of insight to self delusion, I enjoyed my personal definition, it made me giggle. This guy - not so much.

135 littleoldlady  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:00:00am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet ------------------->
Help yourselves!

136 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:00:05am

Almost time for the redistribution of fruitcup wealth....

137 littleoldlady  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:00:18am

w00t! :-)

138 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:00:30am

re: #135 littleoldlady

ON THE DOT!

139 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:01:27am

re: #133 Fearless Fred

I don't think anyone's heard from him.

140 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:01:56am

re: #138 Sharmuta

ON THE DOT!

microdot at that...... enjoy the colors! %-)

141 Fearless Fred  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:02:06am

re: #135 littleoldlady

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet ------------------->
Help yourselves!

2:00:00, . . .

nice

142 littleoldlady  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:02:35am

Sharmuta! :-)

Powerball here I come! ;-)

Fenway! :-)

red! :-)

Fred! :-)

HD Woman! :-)

Who else is here? LGF! :-)

143 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:03:48am

Good Morning Lady! :)

144 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:07:12am

Morning loL.....looks like you've got the precision-timing of the Swiss....without the nasty stolen-by-the-Nazis gold hoarding tendencies.

145 Fearless Fred  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:10:22am

re: #139 Sharmuta

I don't think anyone's heard from him.

Okay. Gotta climb back in the rack here for now then.
Thanks . . . very sad about the news. Good to see you all though.

laters ..... buenos noches lizards !

146 littleoldlady  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:10:47am

re: #144 Fenway_Nation

Gold hoarding doesn't look like such a bad idea at the moment... :-(

/but I DO draw the line at the "nasty stolen-by-the-Nazis gold hoarding"

147 littleoldlady  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:11:09am

Bye, Fred.

148 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:12:20am

No. 1 Road Atlas predicted all presidential elections since 1992, proving that it all comes down to names

Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess "McCain" might show up more on American maps than "obama".

149 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:12:47am

re: #145 Fearless Fred

Bye Fred- sorry the news isn't better.

150 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:14:31am

re: #141 Fearless Fred

2:00:00, . . .

nice

she uses the rhythm method to stay on time.

/white smoke!

151 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:14:55am

re: #146 littleoldlady

My instincts were right about precious metals going back up, but instead of it happening over the course of two or three weeks, it happened in barely 24 hours. I'm also hearing about how gold a popular wedding gift or dowry in India, and since this is the wedding season, it probably won't go back down dramatically until 2009 (and that was without this Wall Street clusterf*ck).

152 littleoldlady  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:17:00am

re: #151 Fenway_Nation

I think it's not so much a good short time investment as a long term insurance policy.

153 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:18:06am

re: #148 Sharmuta
Guess that explains Tancredo.

154 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:21:51am

re: #75 stuiec

Worth a re-read. William Golding was asked to comment on the James Bulger murder in England (James was a 2-year-old led off by a couple of ten-year-olds, who beat him to death with a brick). He observed at the time that Britain was becoming a lot like the island of his novel.

The original film version was made with an all-amateur cast and is still very powerful.

I remember that, Stuie! My whole family was shocked...

Later, I went to see the B/W film, "Lord of the Flies"... it seemed to start slow, but the tempo gradually increased, passed the dead pilot, and was a jungle-death-beat when the climax was reached...

/problem: Who can act as adults for the islands of 45-year-old murderous children around us today?

155 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:24:08am

re: #154 Karridine

I remember that, Stuie! My whole family was shocked...

Later, I went to see the B/W film, "Lord of the Flies"... it seemed to start slow, but the tempo gradually increased, passed the dead pilot, and was a jungle-death-beat when the climax was reached...

/problem: Who can act as adults for the islands of 45-year-old murderous children around us today?

those of use with sense *and* guns.

156 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:25:06am

/problem: Who can act as adults for the islands of 45-year-old murderous children around us today?

Even scarier, those 45 year-olds now have children that are even more disconected from any family ties, humanity, or sanity.

157 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:29:57am

re: #156 HD Woman

/problem: Who can act as adults for the islands of 45-year-old murderous children around us today?

Even scarier, those 45 year-olds now have children that are even more disconected from any family ties, humanity, or sanity.

but, being small, you need fewer rounds to take them out, unless they are on meth.......

/

158 Yankeeboy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:32:47am

Morning lizards...anyone else can't sleep? Luckily there is an old version of the "Lost World" on AMC.

159 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:33:59am

It is amazing to me that Dodd is the face they are putting out as the one protecting us from the no oversight Fannie bailout.

160 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:36:27am

Good Morning Lizard Nation. We are we all awake?

161 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:37:44am

Anyone have any thoughts on my #1 and #3?

162 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:38:12am

re: #157 redc1c4

Yep, I see the difficulties in what we're discussing.

But I've driven a slow motorcycle around a large, flat spot in the middle of suburban buildup, staying just barely ahead of a pack of snarling, hungry castoff mutts and dogs and feral canines... knowing all the while that IF I slipped or the scooter died or I couldn't get back to the entrance... I WAS DEAD!

When you're faced with 11 zombies or 11 hunger-maddened city-dwellers or 11 feral kids after a dirty bomb in the city that used to exist a few miles from your house... the odds are against you, even WITH guns...

163 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:38:44am

re: #159 HD Woman

It is amazing to me that Dodd is the face they are putting out as the one protecting us from the no oversight Fannie bailout.


It is kind of like having Willy Sutton or John Dillinger complaining about lack of bank security.

164 jroberson  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:41:20am

PETA requests Ben and Jerry substitute human breast milk for cow milk.

http://www.wptz.com/news/17539127/detail.html

165 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:41:25am

Hi ya'll,,Has anyone got 700 billion dollars they can loan me.
I'll pay it back when my hunchback brother straightens up.

166 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:42:54am

re: #165 Oldasdirt

Yeah, I can help. Call 1-800-PAY-BACK and tell them you're willing to play Hankie Banky... they'll send you the cash in unmarked bills, FedEx... :D

167 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:42:55am

#160 opnion

working on it...yourself?

168 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:44:13am

re: #161 Moe Katz
I like most of the links that are put on here. A lot of dings at least show a lot of interest. Up or down, at least the people can rest assured that their mission was accomplished - message received and people thought about the particular message, for a little while at least.

169 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:46:25am

re: #167 YankeeBoy

#160 opnion

working on it...yourself?


Yeah, I just came up wide awake at 3:30 AM. It happens, but I wish that I was sleeping.

170 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:47:25am

re: #168 HD Woman

I like most of the links that are put on here. A lot of dings at least show a lot of interest. Up or down, at least the people can rest assured that their mission was accomplished - message received and people thought about the particular message, for a little while at least.

Sure, you can look at it that way.... :) but people don't like being down-dinged for their links. I basically don't bother posting anything that won't make people happy....

171 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:48:16am

re: #168 HD Woman

Thanks for going upthread and reading my two forlorn posts at the beginning :)

172 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:48:17am

re: #162 Karridine

Yep, I see the difficulties in what we're discussing.

But I've driven a slow motorcycle around a large, flat spot in the middle of suburban buildup, staying just barely ahead of a pack of snarling, hungry castoff mutts and dogs and feral canines... knowing all the while that IF I slipped or the scooter died or I couldn't get back to the entrance... I WAS DEAD!

When you're faced with 11 zombies or 11 hunger-maddened city-dwellers or 11 feral kids after a dirty bomb in the city that used to exist a few miles from your house... the odds are against you, even WITH guns...

ever consider moving?

/location, location, location....... %-)

173 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:49:00am

re: #161 Moe Katz

Anyone have any thoughts on my #1 and #3?

yeah: they're a long way up thread........ %-)

174 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:49:55am

re: #164 jroberson

PETA requests Ben and Jerry substitute human breast milk for cow milk.

http://www.wptz.com/news/17539127/detail .html

tit's gonna make the ice cream taste funny.

175 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:50:35am

You guys watch,the American people want heads to roll over this Fannie/Mac crap.And the dems will go straight for any rep that they can pin this debockal* on.When it should be most,or all of them,and Barny(child molester) Frank who should be put straight into jail.No! Put him under the jail.Every CEO of all of these faild house of cards,should be made to give every dime back.

176 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:50:38am

re: #161 Moe Katz

Anyone have any thoughts on my #1 and #3?

Moe, I concur yr analysis, but unless we get Charles to program an "I LIKE the content for its DEMONSTRATION of a SERIOUS NEGATIVE reality" button, as well as a "This makes me ILL, but I'm glad it got linked here" button, we'll just hafta live with the ambiguity of plus/minus dings and trust in others to get the meaning, gist and drift...

177 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:51:42am

re: #173 redc1c4

yeah: they're a long way up thread........ %-)

My point is simply that spinoff links that don't make people happy get negged, when the person posting them is doing so in good faith. There's a shooting the messenger thing happening, so I often don't post anything that isn't positive...

178 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:52:00am

re: #169 opnion

Yeah, I just came up wide awake at 3:30 AM. It happens, but I wish that I was sleeping.

got a lot of police chopper activity tonight, which is neither normal nor welcome. i want to hit the rack.

the 11B-19D says otherwise.

/compromise: get a beer and wait a skosh %-)

179 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:52:35am

re: #166 Karridine

I've been watching Hank and Ben over on C-Span and they haven't provided one compelling reason why this bailout is necessary.

Bunning was pretty good in his questioning.

180 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:52:59am

The other night the Secret Service shooed a drunken lurker, from the front of Obamas mansion.
THe guy came back & he got arrested. They found a weapon & kevlar vest in the guys car.
Turns out that he is the son of a big Obama supporter.
Wonder if he was just basking in the glow?

181 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:53:22am

re: #176 Karridine

Yeah, there's probably no real solution except perhaps for Charles to remind people not to shoot the messenger if they're not mobies.

182 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:53:29am

#169 opnion

it happens...but there is always a lizard to talk to...and a cute girl that serves breakfast at the diner. Even at these hours.

183 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:53:38am

re: #177 Moe Katz

My point is simply that spinoff links that don't make people happy get negged, when the person posting them is doing so in good faith. There's a shooting the messenger thing happening, so I often don't post anything that isn't positive...

if it'll make ya feel better, i *like* negative stuff. that's mostly because i expect it by nature and it bothers the optimistic twits i despise so much to get it.

win/win

184 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:53:52am

Re: Bailout

Btw, no adequate explanation for bailing out foreign banks either.

185 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:54:20am

re: #177 Moe Katz

My point is simply that spinoff links that don't make people happy get negged, when the person posting them is doing so in good faith. There's a shooting the messenger thing happening, so I often don't post anything that isn't positive...

The down-dings don't necessarily mean 'we're shooting the messenger' as much as they mean 'we hate this message'

186 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:54:45am

re: #180 opnion

The other night the Secret Service shooed a drunken lurker, from the front of Obamas mansion.
THe guy came back & he got arrested. They found a weapon & kevlar vest in the guys car.
Turns out that he is the son of a big Obama supporter.
Wonder if he was just basking in the glow?

how can a man of the people like Obanal afford a mansion when so many (like his brother) are po' but proud?

187 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:55:11am

re: #185 Karridine

The down-dings don't necessarily mean 'we're shooting the messenger' as much as they mean 'we hate this message'

Right, but as you point out, it's impossible to tell which is which a lot of the time.

188 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:56:24am

re: #187 Moe Katz

Yup, sure is. :D

189 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:56:27am

Best thing McCain can do is vote against the bailout.

This way he will cut himself completely from Bush 43 and those waiting for handouts weren't going to vote for him anyway.

190 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:56:41am

re: #182 YankeeBoy

#169 opnion

it happens...but there is always a lizard to talk to...and a cute girl that serves breakfast at the diner. Even at these hours.

You know LGF is a great thing to turn to, when you are awake much earlier than you want.

191 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:59:06am

I mostly just did the ding things when I first got registered, it is my way of acknowledging people that had already given voice to my thoughts. I don't know if I've ever down dinged anyone though... unless it looked like leftwing spam spouting.

192 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:59:06am

re: #190 opnion

You know LGF is a great thing to turn to, when you are awake much earlier than you want.

Or later than you want, in my case.

193 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 2:59:18am

re: #187 Moe Katz

"A liar can be shown up in a few moments, but a truthful man often takes years to have the truth of his being proved..."

Its a paraphrase, but I take it to remind me that one instance MIGHT indicate nefarious thoughts/deeds, but mostly I look for PATTERNS, Moe... and I give people the benefit of the doubt...

once.

194 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:00:00am

re: #186 redc1c4

how can a man of the people like Obanal afford a mansion when so many (like his brother) are po' but proud?

Hey, Barry & Michelle are still just folks. They are just real RICH folks.
He does want to make government cool again though. That's a groove y'all.

195 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:00:15am

re: #193 Karridine

Its a paraphrase, but I take it to remind me that one instance MIGHT indicate nefarious thoughts/deeds, but mostly I look for PATTERNS, Moe... and I give people the benefit of the doubt...

once.

You mean with respect to trolling/mobyism?

196 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:00:47am

re: #195 Moe Katz

Yep, that too.

197 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:01:44am

re: #192 Moe Katz

Or later than you want, in my case.

I have enjoyed LGF late at night too.Ya know though, I have to get my sleep straightend out.

198 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:02:41am

re: #197 opnion

I have enjoyed LGF late at night too.Ya know though, I have to get my sleep straightend out.

Do you work today?

199 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:02:53am

#190 Opnion

You know LGF is a great thing to turn to, when you are awake much earlier than you want.

Yea...I was a lurker for the longest time.

200 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:03:39am
You mean with respect to trolling/mobyism?

Because if they're trolling, or false-flagging as a moby, they'll reveal themselves.

And humility demands (of ME) that I remind myself that -linguist though I am- there's a flatness here in ASCII-wonderland that leaves a LOT OF COMMUNICATIVE CLUES out of the comments and posts... so we, as a group, can ably dissect a troll or moby when one shows up here...

201 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:04:32am

The FBI looking at Freddie, Fannie, Lehman & AIG. Hmmm, while they're at it take a loooooong look at Dodd & Barney Frank.

202 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:04:47am

There are usually intelligent, rational folks to talk to. Conservatives are definitely ... more worth talking to, in most cases anyway.

203 Spirit93  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:05:46am

re: #161 Moe Katz
Yes, Moe, I have noticed the same thing. I would think that a linked should be dinged based on how valuable or worthwhile the link was, but it seems many are dinging based on whether or not they agree with the sentiment expressed in the link. Don't take it personally, I do think people understand that just because you provided a link that doesn't mean you agree with it. Usually the posters position is obvious from the title or description of the link.

204 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:06:25am

I like this LGF place.It's like an island of sane people,in a sea of fools.

205 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:06:43am

re: #200 Karridine

Because if they're trolling, or false-flagging as a moby, they'll reveal themselves.

And humility demands (of ME) that I remind myself that -linguist though I am- there's a flatness here in ASCII-wonderland that leaves a LOT OF COMMUNICATIVE CLUES out of the comments and posts... so we, as a group, can ably dissect a troll or moby when one shows up here...

Don't you think there are some false positives, though? That it sometimes degenerates into a witchhunt?

206 Timbre  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:06:59am

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an arrogant Islamopath who has called repeatedly for the destruction of Israel. His statements, backed by the full force of his government, constitute a declaration of war against Israel and its allies. This Government will not idly stand by while the Iranian Government begins preparation for offensive military attacks. We urge the Iranian people to reject the Ahmadinejad/Mullah-ruled government and establish a new constitutional government whose focus is human rights and legitimate self-defense; not Islamist self-aggrandizement.

207 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:07:11am

re: #199 YankeeBoy

#190 Opnion

You know LGF is a great thing to turn to, when you are awake much earlier than you want.

Yea...I was a lurker for the longest time.


I got to look in a thread yesterday. Mandy & Just My View were having a world class smack down.
I had to go to a meeting (Actual work). Anybody know how it ended up?

208 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:07:22am

re: #202 Moe Katz

There are usually intelligent, rational folks to talk to. Conservatives are definitely ... more worth talking to, in most cases anyway.

EGGS Ackley!
Why should I waste time on some attention-deprived adolescent when I can use my life to 'accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmative, and don't mess with Mister In-Between'?

209 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:07:31am

re: #177 Moe Katz

My point is simply that spinoff links that don't make people happy get negged, when the person posting them is doing so in good faith. There's a shooting the messenger thing happening, so I often don't post anything that isn't positive...

Yeah- it's very shoot the messenger when I think sometimes people are trying to expose moonbatiness. I'm not sure what can be done about it. Strange really, because if it were a thread instead of a spinoff, it gets dinged up, but people don't utilize the spinoff thread comments to rail against the moonbat- they just ding the lizard exposing it.

210 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:08:02am

re: #203 Spirit93

Yes, when I post something offensive I usually add a title that will distance me from the message, express dismay, etc.

211 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:08:04am

Good morning, Lizards.

212 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:09:01am

#204 oldasdirt

nice to meet you.

213 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:09:02am

re: #211 goddessoftheclassroom

Good morning, goddess.

214 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:09:09am

re: #205 Moe Katz

Don't you think there are some false positives, though? That it sometimes degenerates into a witchhunt?

I do. So I personally avoid ad hominem attacks on others, and don't go in for troll-bashing (much) but do take this opportunity to state that there've been very FEW false-positives that I've seen here, Moe...

215 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:09:10am

re: #209 Sharmuta

Yeah- it's very shoot the messenger when I think sometimes people are trying to expose moonbatiness. I'm not sure what can be done about it. Strange really, because if it were a thread instead of a spinoff, it gets dinged up, but people don't utilize the spinoff thread comments to rail against the moonbat- they just ding the lizard exposing it.

Give it some thought, Sharmuta, maybe you'll come up with a solution!

216 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:09:55am

re: #211 goddessoftheclassroom

Good morning, Lizards.

Good Morning. Wecome to the 'I just couldn't sleep" thread

217 sparrowlake  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:10:45am

Good morning LGF.

Larry: Why don't you sit down and talk with Israel?
A-hole: Sucks to your ass-mar.
Larry: Do you really deny the holocaust?
A-hole: Kill the pig. Cut her throat. Spill her blood.
Larry: Thank you Mr. President.

218 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:11:05am

re: #208 Karridine

EGGS Ackley!
Why should I waste time on some attention-deprived adolescent when I can use my life to 'accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmative, and don't mess with Mister In-Between'?

Good song!

219 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:11:52am

re: #218 Moe Katz

You're DATING yourself, Bub! :D

220 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:12:58am

re: #218 Moe Katz

But I MEAN IT, Moe... I sing that song in my heart, on my lips, daily! I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life! :D

221 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:13:31am

re: #207 opnion
I think just my view was losing, he just couldn't see it.

222 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:13:48am

re: #219 Karridine

You're DATING yourself, Bub! :D

I'm very retro. My adult life has been an exploration of music of previous generations.

223 Luigi  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:13:51am

Heads up to Barry..

[Link: www.rantburg.com...]

This may explain why Barry denies over and over again he was ever a Muslim.

224 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:15:26am

Just on FNC. A chaplin at the University of Mass. was offering 2 hours of college credit for students that volunteer time, working for Obama.
The Administraton foun out & slapped him down.

225 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:16:27am

re: #223 Luigi

Heads up to Barry..

[Link: www.rantburg.com...]

This may explain why Barry denies over and over again he was ever a Muslim.

I thought it was because it's ok to lie to non-muslims.

226 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:16:35am

{Sharmuta}
{opnion}

I'm sorry that y'all couldn't sleep--that's so frustrating. I'm up early because I'm a teacher, and mu official work day starts at 7:30.

227 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:16:44am

re: #221 HD Woman

I think just my view was losing, he just couldn't see it.

Is JMV a guy? I get the feelig JMV is a female & a foreign national.

228 Karridine  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:17:00am

re: #222 Moe Katz

That's a MARVELLOUS way to investigate one's roots, Moe! The people who sang it, the social matrix that grew it and the changes it triggered... (ANY song)...

That's not a bad filter through which to view life, or history...

229 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:17:15am

According to promotional brochures, the soon-to-be refurbished building will house the new "Charles B. Rangel Center for Public Service," the "Rangel Conference Center," "a well-furnished office for Charles Rangel" and the "Charles Rangel Library" for his papers and memorabilia. It's kind of like a presidential library, but without a president. In fact, the brochure says Rangel's library will be as important as the Clinton and Carter libraries.
Our money(federal funds)at work.For this crook,NO WAY!

230 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:17:17am

#207 opnion

I know who Mandy is...not so much on "just my view". Mandy is a troll smasher, so I'm asuming she was smashing a troll.

231 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:17:31am

well, one last ost and then bed:
i recently enrolled in a program to finish my college degree. 1st semester in (mumble) years.

1 class is "labor law": do we discuss laws and where to find answers to legal questions?
no. we discuss CA labor history from the Spanish on up. we got an assignment to look up the legal minimum wage on 5 different scenarios, after maybe 30 mikes max of class room "how to" look up stuff. no walk throughs, nada. just the old "swim" sort of training.

w*rk was due NLT 2400 local on the 22nd, and once you turn in an answer, you can't change anything......nor can the instructor accept any other form of submission (email, etc)

having not prepared his students, nor given them the tools, and since some students were having tech issues, on the 23rd his nibs told us we had until the 26th to give our answers.......

i posted the following item:
/begin quoted text
"since we all could use a good laugh about now"

the good news is that we now have until the 26th to turn in the minimum wage questions.
(see announcements)

except, of course, that Blackboard won't let you change anything once you've turned in your answer, and you can't submit answers any other way....

and, best of all, the extension wasn't announced until the 23rd, which, of course, was after the deadline of the 22nd.

your extra credit question is this:
from the facts presented, is this a government w*rk site, or just a regular union j*b? %-)
/end quoted text

bear in mind our instructor is a huge union/immigrants right fan, hence my EC question. i also attached this photo to the file, labeled "all the way to the top fail"......

think he'll get the joke?

(and, for extra credit, how badly will my grade suffer for this temerity? %-)

232 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:17:41am

re: #215 Moe Katz

Give it some thought, Sharmuta, maybe you'll come up with a solution!

That's above my pay grade.

233 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:18:00am

re: #226 goddessoftheclassroom

{Sharmuta}
{opnion}

I'm sorry that y'all couldn't sleep--that's so frustrating. I'm up early because I'm a teacher, and mu official work day starts at 7:30.


Goddess, thank's for the kind thoughts. I plan to catch up tonight.

234 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:18:00am

re: #228 Karridine

That's a MARVELLOUS way to investigate one's roots, Moe! The people who sang it, the social matrix that grew it and the changes it triggered... (ANY song)...

That's not a bad filter through which to view life, or history...

Oh, yes, it's a lifetime project, endless and vast.

235 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:18:22am

re: #232 Sharmuta

That's above my pay grade.

:)

236 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:18:42am

re: #212 YankeeBoy

#204 oldasdirt

nice to meet you.

Thx.I love this place.

237 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:18:58am

re: #207 opnion

I got to look in a thread yesterday. Mandy & Just My View were having a world class smack down.
I had to go to a meeting (Actual work). Anybody know how it ended up?

my money is on Mandy......

238 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:19:50am

re: #230 YankeeBoy

#207 opnion

I know who Mandy is...not so much on "just my view". Mandy is a troll smasher, so I'm asuming she was smashing a troll.

It was a beat down. As usual in these things lately, over Obama.

239 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:20:34am

re: #205 Moe Katz

Don't you think there are some false positives, though? That it sometimes degenerates into a witchhunt?

everyone is guilty of something...... can you float?

240 Spirit93  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:20:38am

re: #222 Moe Katz

I'm very retro. My adult life has been an exploration of music of previous generations.

Me too! I've become a big fan of the big band era.

Duke Ellington - Anitra's Dance

241 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:20:47am

re: #237 redc1c4

my money is on Mandy......

When I left, she was kicking some serious ass.

242 Timbre  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:20:53am

re: #224 opnion

Just on FNC. A chaplain in at the University of Mass. was offering 2 hours of college credit for students that volunteer time, working for Obama.
The Administrating found out & slapped him down.

I will not use a broad-brush on religious people in general, as we have many good ones right here at Charles' LGF. But my 10 years of working with volunteers--more than a few the "true-believer"-- has shown me that rules often take a back seat to "doing God's work."

243 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:21:02am

re: #234 Moe Katz

Oh, yes, it's a lifetime project, endless and vast.

There's more interest these days in old-time country music. The blacks weren't the only people making interesting folk music in the early 20th century South, but some kind of inverse racism has marginalized white roots music. Emmylou Harris has talked about that.

244 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:21:46am

re: #240 Spirit93

Me too! I've become a big fan of the big band era.

Duke Ellington - Anitra's Dance

There's just so much to discover. And some of the CD collections of old recordings are getting ridiculously cheap.

245 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:22:29am

re: #240 Spirit93

Me too! I've become a big fan of the big band era.

Duke Ellington - Anitra's Dance

Your not alone. My college student daughter & her friends go Swing Dancing. Big Bands have become very popular again.

246 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:22:44am

re: #241 opnion

When I left, she was kicking some serious ass.

she always does...... %-)

247 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:23:39am

re: #227 opnion

Is JMV a guy? I get the feeling JMV is a female & a foreign national.


I guess being a female, I may be guilty of gender bias.. whoopsy.
I sure thought it was a guy cause of the know it all attitude, but I do recognize what you considered possible effeminate tendencies.

248 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:24:10am

l8r...... gonna hit it so i can see what happens to my latest attempt at college tomorrow.

/likely shoulda spent the tuition on scotch, just like the first time %-)

249 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:24:11am

re: #239 redc1c4

everyone is guilty of something...... can you float?

Yes, I do float. That's why I'm afraid of witchhunts.

250 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:24:23am

re: #242 Timbre

I will not use a broad-brush on religious people in general, as we have many good ones right here at Charles' LGF. But my 10 years of working with volunteers--more than a few the "true-believer"-- has shown me that rules often take a back seat to "doing God's work."

And often they justify their own vision for God's.

AKA "pride."

251 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:24:42am

Godessoftheclassroom...Would you mind if I introduce myself?...and try to spell it correctly?

252 redc1c4  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:25:24am

re: #247 HD Woman

I guess being a female, I may be guilty of gender bias.. whoopsy.
I sure thought it was a guy cause of the know it all attitude, but I do recognize what you considered possible effeminate tendencies.

which won't stop JMV from being male, just that they won't be a guy.

/or maybe JMV is just Fwench?

253 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:26:26am

re: #243 Moe Katz

There's more interest these days in old-time country music. The blacks weren't the only people making interesting folk music in the early 20th century South, but some kind of inverse racism has marginalized white roots music. Emmylou Harris has talked about that.

A lot of Country music sounds very similar to Irish/ Scottish folk music.

254 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:26:53am

re: #252 redc1c4
French is just what I was thinking!

255 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:27:16am

re: #251 YankeeBoy

Godessoftheclassroom...Would you mind if I introduce myself?...and try to spell it correctly?

I would be delighted to make your acquaintance!

256 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:28:25am

I fly with a French guy,and he hates US.Us meaning U.S.

257 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:28:46am

re: #253 opnion

A lot of Country music sounds very similar to Irish/ Scottish folk music.

Sure, they came to Appalachia and settled in their hollers and continued much of what they'd had in the old country. Jazz/blues and radio revolutionized country music by the 1920's, though.

258 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:29:01am

re: #247 HD Woman

I guess being a female, I may be guilty of gender bias.. whoopsy.
I sure thought it was a guy cause of the know it all attitude, but I do recognize what you considered possible effeminate tendencies.


I am curious. There is such a knee jerk rush to defend Obama & I wonder why. Of ,I am just as quick to go the other way.

259 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:30:48am

re: #257 Moe Katz

Sure, they came to Appalachia and settled in their hollers and continued much of what they'd had in the old country. Jazz/blues and radio revolutionized country music by the 1920's, though.

Right, I guess that I was referring to Classic Country.Today , a lot of it is Cross Over.

260 sparrowlake  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:32:23am

Breakfast time - pass the breast milk.
BWAHAHAHAHA

261 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:32:27am

re: #253 opnion
I love Eddie Arnold - Make the world go away
& Kitty Wells!

262 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:33:30am

re: #259 opnion

Right, I guess that I was referring to Classic Country.Today , a lot of it is Cross Over.

I don't listen to mainstream country much. Now they've got mainstream bluegrass, too ... it's soulless and formulaic.

263 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:33:32am

#225 Godessoftheclassroom

The pleasure is mine

264 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:33:35am

re: #256 Oldasdirt

I fly with a French guy,and he hates US.Us meaning U.S.

Probably angry that we interferred in their relationship with the Germans during WWII. You know if we had just minded our own business, Pierre Francouis Obama could have negotiated the misunderstanding.

265 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:33:45am

re: #261 HD Woman

I love Eddie Arnold - Make the world go away
& Kitty Wells!

One of my childhood Christmas memories is listening to Eddie Arnold's Christmas album as my dad strung the lights on the tree.

He bought my brother and me our own copies when we moved out on our own.

266 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:34:31am

re: #260 sparrowlake

Breakfast time - pass the breast milk.
BWAHAHAHAHA

Did you see the scene in Borat?

267 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:34:40am

re: #262 Moe Katz

I don't listen to mainstream country much. Now they've got mainstream bluegrass, too ... it's soulless and formulaic.

I know that Willy is a moonbat, but he can sing. I still listen to him.

268 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:35:28am

re: #267 opnion

I know that Willy is a moonbat, but he can sing. I still listen to him.

He's a brilliant songwriter too. "Crazy" is a masterpiece.

269 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:36:11am

re: #268 Moe Katz

He's a brilliant songwriter too. "Crazy" is a masterpiece.

yup, & "Funny how Time slips Away"

270 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:36:38am

re: #264 opnion

Probably angry that we interferred in their relationship with the Germans during WWII. You know if we had just minded our own business, Pierre Francouis Obama could have negotiated the misunderstanding.

LMAO,,hope you dont mind if i pass that on to him,I love being under his skin.

271 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:38:02am

re: #247 HD Woman

It's not that you're a woman. It's that there is a tendency here to assume posters are male. I think it's because politics has been so male dominated for so long that a lot of us (me included) tend to think posters here are male.

But what's strange is women tend to be highly opinionated, as any man would tell you. That women display this here should surprise no one, yet there is still a tendency to think posters are men.

And.... I really thought the avatar would help, but I still get called a "he" sometimes. What's a Smurfette to do?

272 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:38:04am

re: #269 opnion

yup, & "Funny how Time slips Away"

Yes. Much of his early songwriting, when he was writing commercially for Nashville, is superb. It's formula stuff with a hook, but it's GOOD formula stuff. "I've Just Destroyed the World" is probably the best hook I've ever heard for a song.

273 Gang of One  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:38:06am

Why am I awake at this hour? Why am I on LGF ...?

274 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:38:17am

re: #270 Oldasdirt

LMAO,,hope you dont mind if i pass that on to him,I love being under his skin.

Please do. I will look forward to hearing his reaction. I have a French neighbor like that.

275 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:38:53am

re: #273 Gang of One

Why am I awake at this hour? Why am I on LGF ...?

Because sleeping's overrated and you love us?

276 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:39:07am

re: #258 opnion

I am curious. There is such a knee jerk rush to defend Obama & I wonder why. Of ,I am just as quick to go the other way.


I read one opinion that people are so invested in their "guy", that admitting their guy is wrong is like admitting they themselves are wrong.
I have noticed a lot of people don't want to admit they're wrong even if they know it for a fact. Kinda the opposite of being so open minded that your brains fall out, but with similar consequences.

277 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:39:14am

re: #267 opnion

I know that Willy is a moonbat, but he can sing. I still listen to him.

Who cares if he's a moonbat?

278 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:39:37am

#273 Gang of One

I was asking myself that about an hour ago.

279 Gang of One  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:39:45am

re: #275 Sharmuta

Because sleeping's overrated and you love us?

I think that is part of it, yes.

280 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:39:58am

re: #272 Moe Katz

Yes. Much of his early songwriting, when he was writing commercially for Nashville, is superb. It's formula stuff with a hook, but it's GOOD formula stuff. "I've Just Destroyed the World" is probably the best hook I've ever heard for a song.

I really like 'Poncho & Lefty" Not his best stuff I guess, but I like it.

281 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:40:40am

re: #280 opnion

I really like 'Poncho & Lefty" Not his best stuff I guess, but I like it.

Yep, got that one. And Red Headed Stranger, and a whole shelf-full more.

282 Gang of One  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:40:41am

It might also have to do with the fact that I have this job teaching high school special ed ... ?

283 Gang of One  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:41:23am

Maybe I should actually, y'know, start getting dressed now.

284 Spirit93  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:41:59am

re: #273 Gang of One

Why am I awake at this hour? Why am I on LGF ...?

The hive awakens you.

Resistance is futile.

285 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:42:15am

re: #282 Gang of One

It might also have to do with the fact that I have this job teaching high school special ed ... ?

{Gang of One}

God bless you. To teach special ed is indeed a special gift. I know of the tremendous paperwork and administrative stuff you have to deal with, and for that you have my sympathy.

286 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:42:18am

re: #277 Moe Katz

Who cares if he's a moonbat?

Yeah, I wouldn't vote for him for anything, but he does great stuff, musically.

287 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:44:04am

re: #286 opnion

Yeah, I wouldn't vote for him for anything, but he does great stuff, musically.

Amazing after all those years of smoking dope.

288 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:44:58am

re: #287 Moe Katz

Amazing after all those years of smoking dope.

Actually, that probably made him more creative.

289 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:46:02am

re: #287 Moe Katz

Amazing after all those years of smoking dope.

Willie smokes dope.Probably to take the edge off being a moonbat.

290 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:46:18am

re: #288 opnion

Actually, that probably made him more creative.

But moonbatty....

291 Gang of One  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:47:04am

re: #285 goddessoftheclassroom

{Gang of One}

God bless you. To teach special ed is indeed a special gift. I know of the tremendous paperwork and administrative stuff you have to deal with, and for that you have my sympathy.

{Goddess}

You got that right, the part about paper pushing.

If we only had to teach it would have been enough.

If we only had to modify lesson plans and teach, it would have been enough.

If we only had to have weekly meetings with other teachers in the department, modify lesson plans and teach, it would have been enough.

If we only had to download reams of e-mail attachments from administrators, have weekly meetings with other teachers in the department, modify lesson plans and teach, it would have been enough.

You get the picture ..

292 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:47:09am

He plays a lot of golf on his private course as well. I wonder if he cheats.

293 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:48:39am

Now if we want to talk singer /songwriters, I gotta put David Allen Coe and Johnny Cash at the top of that list.

294 Gang of One  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:48:48am

And now I really, truly, honestly have to go.

See you all later ... during my prep, perhaps.

295 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:51:11am

re: #293 HD Woman

Now if we want to talk singer /songwriters, I gotta put David Allen Coe and Johnny Cash at the top of that list.

Johnny Cash was incredible, I cried when he died a few months after June passed away. Don't know Coe at all, though, I must confess.

296 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:51:49am

re: #291 Gang of One
Sounds like you really earn your moniker!
Godspeed and Jobe's patience!

297 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:52:59am

re: #296 HD Woman

What does the HD stand for in your nic? Hard drive? Heavy duty?

298 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:53:41am

FNC is now predicting that there may be accusations of voter fraud this election.
Look for them next to boldly predict, that sunrise will continue in the East.

299 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:54:18am

re: #297 Moe Katz

What does the HD stand for in your nic? Hard drive? Heavy duty?

Hates demon-crats?

300 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:56:02am

re: #271 Sharmuta

It's not that you're a woman. It's that there is a tendency here to assume posters are male. I think it's because politics has been so male dominated for so long that a lot of us (me included) tend to think posters here are male.

But what's strange is women tend to be highly opinionated, as any man would tell you. That women display this here should surprise no one, yet there is still a tendency to think posters are men.

And.... I really thought the avatar would help, but I still get called a "he" sometimes. What's a Smurfette to do?

Who are you calling highly opinionated, Smurfy?!?

301 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:56:08am

re: #295 Moe Katz
Darlin you are missing some kick a$$ country music!
Tanya Tucker sang one of his to the top of the charts,
"Would you lay with me, in a field of stones."
I like his version better though.

Johnny Paycheck sang Take this job & shove it.

302 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:56:54am

re: #298 opnion

FNC is now predicting that there may be accusations of voter fraud this election.
Look for them next to boldly predict, that sunrise will continue in the East.

They're really on the ball there, aren't they? I predict accusations of racism- can I have my own network now?

303 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:57:24am

re: #297 Moe Katz

What does the HD stand for in your nic? Hard drive? Heavy duty?


Hot Damn!

304 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:57:53am

re: #301 HD Woman

Darlin you are missing some kick a$$ country music!
Tanya Tucker sang one of his to the top of the charts,
"Would you lay with me, in a field of stones."
I like his version better though.

Johnny Paycheck sang Take this job & shove it.

Oh! Thanks for telling me!

305 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:58:09am

re: #303 HD Woman

Hot Damn!

LOL!

306 TheMatrix31  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:58:36am

re: #302 Sharmuta

They're really on the ball there, aren't they? I predict accusations of racism- can I have my own network now?

We're going to see it all. And it's going to be sickening.

307 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:58:44am

re: #300 scottishbuzzsaw

Who are you calling highly opinionated, Smurfy?!?

LOL!

308 yesandno  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 3:59:37am

Well....

The run on gasoline here has about reached the breaking point. Have less then 1/8 of a tan of gasoline and unlikely to find any around here before it all goes. Western North Carolina is out of gas.

People hoarding, topping off and generally doing what people do when there is a shortage. Guess I should be angry at them, but more angry that all the refineries involved here are on the Gulf Coast and disabled because of Ike and the pipelines not full initially because of the EPA switch from summer to winter blend.

Look at the environmentalists that have blocked more refineries in less volatile areas of the country. Too many designer types of gasoline. Believe that may have been suspended in the aftermath of the storm for a while. But the turnover had already started between one blend and another reducing the flow in the pipes prior to the shut off.

And now we sit and wait for the situation to improve itself. It isn't the price of gas that is a problem today....it is the supply.

Drill, drill, drill..................

309 galloping granny  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:00:37am

re: #300 scottishbuzzsaw

Who are you calling highly opinionated, Smurfy?!?

Sure as heck wouldn't be any of us . . .

310 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:00:52am

Well folks, I'd better get a bit of sleep, the appliance place will undoubtedly call me early to arrange the reinstallation of my upstairs air conditioner. Which failed just out of warranty, of course.

311 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:02:14am

re: #307 Sharmuta

LOL!

Good morning, Shar...by the way, excellent opinions on the fascist thread...can't believe they're still at it.

312 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:03:31am

re: #310 Moe Katz
Call them even if it's out of warranty. I've saved hundreds that way. They can't tell ya no til you ask, then ask for a supervisor, and be real nice.

313 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:03:42am

re: #309 galloping granny

Sure as heck wouldn't be any of us . . .

*blinking innocently*

314 galloping granny  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:04:43am

Lest you think that Drill Baby Drill is really going to happen - better read this:
[Link: www.ibdeditorials.com...]

315 Moe Katz  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:05:34am

re: #312 HD Woman

Call them even if it's out of warranty. I've saved hundreds that way. They can't tell ya no til you ask, then ask for a supervisor, and be real nice.

I actually did that and got the part free, now I only have to pay the labor! Thanks for mentioning it!

Over and out.

316 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:06:53am

re: #314 galloping granny
That's already past the House and President Bush has promised to veto it.

317 galloping granny  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:08:50am

re: #316 HD Woman

That's already past the House and President Bush has promised to veto it.

Better read more closely. Pelosi and company are now adding it on to a must-pass/must sign spending bill . . . . .

318 flynmudd  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:12:04am

re: #317 galloping granny

Call your congresscritter and let them know how you feel. Don't expect someone else to do it.

319 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:12:36am

re: #311 scottishbuzzsaw

Good morning, Shar...by the way, excellent opinions on the fascist thread...can't believe they're still at it.

Good morning, Scotti. You know- you'd think it would be obvious why LGFers and people in general don't want to be associated with nazis, but what can you do when you're dealing with people who see no problem with it?

And thanks for your kind words- that means a lot to me.

320 TheMatrix31  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:12:54am

Too bad there's no line-item.

321 yesandno  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:14:01am

re: #317 galloping granny

Better read more closely. Pelosi and company are now adding it on to a must-pass/must sign spending bill . . . . .

Was aware of this. These people need to be voted out of office...not only change you can believe in, but change we need.

This is the most corrupt group of individuals ever. We need to hit the phones and the mail and put a stop to this.....

Vote the bastards out!

322 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:15:16am

re: #318 flynmudd

Call your congresscritter and let them know how you feel. Don't expect someone else to do it.

I've got mine on speed dial.

323 NC State of Mind  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:16:12am

re: #314 galloping granny

Lest you think that Drill Baby Drill is really going to happen - better read this:
[Link: www.ibdeditorials.com...]


It won't wash. Pelosi's "Comprehensive American Energy Security and Consumer Protection Act" actually bans drilling in places where we know the oil and gas are. It prohibits drilling within 50 miles of our coasts.

Can't wait to see how this will be spun by the MSM. How come it seems like the Dems always find a way to get what they want? When they are in the majority no less. Republicans need to get some bills appropriating funding for nuclear power attached to some Head Start funding bill and start being on the offensive.

324 sparrowlake  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:16:25am

re: #266 Moe Katz

Did you see the scene in Borat?

Yeah, Borat was very....very.
I was referring to the idiots at PETA who want Ben & Jerry's to subtitute it for cow's milk...how about a single scoop with a cherry on top!

325 YankeeBoy  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:16:50am

It's shower and shave time. Thanks for being lizards. To anyone I take into conversation please I'm only here for an hour or two at a time...so I don't always get back.

But I met a few very cool folks here.

Have a good day.

326 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:19:17am

On the subject of congress critters, I hope you all will take 5 minutes to contact your Senator through the Capitol Switchboard (202-224-3121) and ask him/her to pressure Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to allow a vote this week on H.R. 6633, the House-passed E-Verify reauthorization bill. The E-Verify program will die in November if Congress does not reauthorize it before Members leave for the election recess on Friday.

327 Price_of_Peace  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:21:55am

re: #158 Yankeeboy

Morning lizards...anyone else can't sleep? Luckily there is an old version of the "Lost World" on AMC.

I haven't been asleep yet. I'm doing laundry for the wife since I'm awake. Checking here between loads. I hoped the laundry would put me to sleep. Oh well.....

328 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:23:39am

[Link: throwawayyourtelescreen.wordpress.com...]
This may help to explain some of our bank problems

329 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:33:22am

More evidence that we humans are destroying the cosmos? New signs of Gorebull warming? I think not. Solar Wind Loses Power, Hits 50-year Low. Actually, it's refreshing to see scientists admitting that, with only 50 years of data or so, far-reaching conclusions are impossible.

330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:34:40am

Why am I supposed to care so much about Caylee?

331 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:36:01am

So if Warren Buffet is willing to bail out Goldman Sachs why are taxpayers asked to participate?

332 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:36:10am

re: #330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why wouldn't ya? Who is she?

333 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:37:46am

Good Morning Lizards!

Red Sox are playoff bound!

You will have to excuse me for being a little bit overly upbeat today due to the looming playoff season, even if I do suspect that it will be short lived for the Sox.

I hope all of you are well.

334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:40:07am

re: #332 HD Woman

Why wouldn't ya? Who is she?

That's my freaking point. Today Show has spent the past 7 minutes talking about a cute missing three year old white girl.

The press latches on the the missing white person du jour. Drives me nuts.

Sad yes! National news? Hardly.

335 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:41:15am
336 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:41:44am

re: #333 Ford_Prefect
Do the Happy Dance & don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. :)

337 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:42:15am

re: #335 rancher

I'm just guessing here...

All of them?

338 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:42:35am

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's my freaking point. Today Show has spent the past 7 minutes talking about a cute missing three year old white girl.

The press latches on the the missing white person du jour. Drives me nuts.

Sad yes! National news? Hardly.

Is that the one the mom kept in the trunk of her car for a few months?

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:42:58am

re: #338 Oldasdirt

Yep.

340 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:44:40am

re: #336 HD Woman

Do the Happy Dance & don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. :)

As a Red Sox fan, even after two recent World Series Championships, there will always be a little pessimism in with the joy. A little bitter with the sweet. That's OK though. It keeps us humble. ;-)

341 right Brain  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:44:52am

Received this, this morning from a Wall St.banker. Too funny not to share:

A Most Honorable and Rewardable Appeal from Republic of America

Dear Honorable American:

In great gratitude I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude. I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.

This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren towallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

Yours Faithfully
Minister of Treasury Paulson

342 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:44:58am

re: #339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Demon-crats would call it a late abortion.

343 NC State of Mind  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:45:10am

re: #330 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why am I supposed to care so much about Caylee?

Back in the day of 24/7 Elizabeth Smart coverage, a few outlets started complaining about the media focusing on one lost child. Then MSNBC covered, for one segment, "The Search for Alexis." She was the daughter of two poor African Americans. Part of the criticism of the Smart coverage was that it was only covered because the family was wealthy. At the end the interviewer said they would keep us posted on developments and I never heard about the girl again. That was the most embarrassing and patronizing interview ever.

344 godfrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:46:08am

Good morning everyone

"Dark Flow" outside the observable universe

Pittsburgh's Socialist Public Educational System

Dark Flow seems to be exerting a force on Pittsburgh teacher unions.

345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:46:47am

re: #341 right Brain

Well, it would be funny. If it weren't so damn true.

346 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:47:28am

re: #343 NC State of Mind

Yep.

347 BaseballMom57  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:48:01am

Good morning lizards! Bloody Marys all 'round!

Gonna start reading the from the top....

348 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:49:38am

re: #347 BaseballMom57

Wait! My Bloody Mary!

349 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:50:13am

re: #341 right Brain

Well, if it is going to help "the Republic of America" then count me in. Every true Patriot should join in.

//////////////////////////////////////////

350 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:51:45am

re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Incredibly sad. I was pretty sure that's who you were referring to. My heart sure goes out to the grandparents, they have nuts with signs protesting in their yard day & night like they did something wrong! Makes me want to go down there and knock noggins.

I agree with your point, especially when they give rampage shooters 5 days of fame when they don't deserve to have their name spoken ever again. I've tried a few times to document what they call news so I could complain to the FCC and ask them not to renew licenses of our airways. I got too disgusted and never made it through the broadcast.

351 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:54:55am

re: #340 Ford_Prefect
I put a hex on NYY 3 years ago. You're welcome ;)

352 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:55:03am

re: #350 HD Woman

Grandparents are dealing with protesters because of the media.

Maybe someone cuter will be murdered next week.

Sheesh!

353 quickjustice  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:57:46am

The Goldman quote from "Lord of the Flies" is sinister foreboding of the plot, in which English juveniles stranded on an island without adult supervision gradually turn into tribal barbarians, stooping even to murder of one of their own.

We have a similar situation. It's known as the Congress. It's about to vote a bailout at our expense for its own recklessness, self-enriching misconduct, and failure of oversight, otherwise known to Democrats as "fun".

354 quickjustice  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 4:59:01am

Oops! "Golding", not "Goldman".

355 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:00:07am

re: #351 HD Woman

I thought Alex Rodriguez did that when he signed with them. The Curse Of A-Rod! And now that he is going to be on the team when they open their new stadium I figure that is cursed too. They will never win a championship there.

I can dream, can't I?

:-)

356 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:02:23am

Is it just me,,or did the Charlie Rangle tax evasion thing kinda get sweped under the carpet?

357 BaseballMom57  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:04:02am

re: #21 EIDE_Interface

But at the same time, people who signed for loans they couldn't afford shouldn't be bailed out. Let them suffer.

As a loan officer with one of the very few banks who did NOT hand out Option ARMs or ANY loan the borrower could not afford, I agree with you EIDE, with one "however":

There ARE a number of innocent (albeit ignorant) people who were suckered into these loans by slick, greedy loan officers. Language barriers were taken advantage of, and there was a fair amount of overt, but not apparent to the borrower, collusion between the loan officer, realtor and appraiser. The FBI can investigate until kingdom come, and they won't find all the greedy little sobs. These victims have come to my office seeking help, and in almost all cases, have copies of every document they signed, and have burst into tears at my desk when I explain the loan to them. Their incomes were invariably inflated, and they never noticed because they trusted their realtor (who steered them to the slick loan officer) and the sweet talking loan officer.

I remember one such young couple. Hispanic, with a good grasp of our language. Two small children. They owed $33000 more than they originally borrowed. Their loan officer has disappeared off the face of the earth, along with the company he worked for. Worse yet, this snake put the customer's Mom and Dad, Uncle and Aunt, and his cousin's family in homes as well, selling them the same type of loan.

It's criminal, shameful, and I was almost in tears by the end of the appointment. No, we should not reward the people who created this mess, but unfortunately I don't see a way out of the foreclosure mess other than the Paulson plan.

358 NC State of Mind  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:04:26am

re: #355 Ford_Prefect

I thought Alex Rodriguez did that when he signed with them. The Curse Of A-Rod! And now that he is going to be on the team when they open their new stadium I figure that is cursed too. They will never win a championship there.

I can dream, can't I?

:-)

A-Rod did do it. When they signed him, the guys on Sportscenter were saying this was going to be a trade deal and a team people would be "talking about for centuries to come." You don't have talk like that without a lot of blowback!

359 pingjockey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:05:03am

Mornin' all! Another exciting Wednesday.....or not.

360 flynmudd  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:07:38am

re: #357 BaseballMom57

Question: Is it my responsibility to bail my neighbor out every single time they make a bad decision? When is enough enough by the way? Stupidity is not an excuse.

Call me heartless. There is something called personal responsibility in this country. Maybe if these people were to allowed to fail they would actually learn a lesson!

361 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:07:39am

re: #359 pingjockey

Mornin' all! Another exciting Wednesday.....or not.

Mornin' ping...there're suppose to Bloody Marys being served but I haven't seen any yet...

362 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:07:56am

re: #299 Oldasdirt

Hates demon-crats?

re: #355 Ford_Prefect

I thought Alex Rodriguez did that when he signed with them. The Curse Of A-Rod! And now that he is going to be on the team when they open their new stadium I figure that is cursed too. They will never win a championship there.

I can dream, can't I?

:-)

I think they deserve any curse after the taxpayers subsidised the new stadium that is built mostly for the richest and most elite. It seats less people, and the extra size accomodates private entrances and more plush sky boxes so that the _____s don't have to rub elbows with the unwashed masses that actually came to watch baseball instead of "being seen". Makes me sick! SICK! Babe Ruth is spinning.

363 pingjockey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:09:30am

re: #361 scottishbuzzsaw
Sounds yummy, but mine has to be virgin. Have to go to work in a couple hours! :(

364 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:09:38am

Any more news on David kennel, the UofT student who hacked Palins Emails?
You know that the MSM will spin this as just a fun loving college prank.
If the Kid was a Republican & did it to BHO, they would be demanding a public execution. Ya know that they would.

365 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:09:56am

re: #356 Oldasdirt

I think the word is "Poof!"

366 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:10:17am

re: #356 Oldasdirt

Is it just me,,or did the Charlie Rangle tax evasion thing kinda get sweped under the carpet?

He wrote a check and went into "Nothing to see here, move along" mode.

367 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:10:49am

Don't want a bailout? This guy has a better plan.

368 BaseballMom57  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:11:10am

re: #96 stuiec

Hmmm...I can't stomach Katie, but if she means what she says, maybe it will be a decent interview. Interesting though, that she acknowledges the existence of the "gotcha" questions in Gibson's interview (without coming right out and mentioning him).

369 yochanan  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:11:19am

i guess the problem with having 24/7 cable news shows is you got to fill it the time with something i guess the human interest stories do that for them but as tragic as some of these stories are none of them should be considered national news stories. Unqualfified parents hurting or killing there unwanted babies happens saddly all the time. dumb people doing more than stupid things happens all the time. not a good idea for good looking rich or middleclass white girls going to third world countries alone or not well supervised.

370 NC State of Mind  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:13:11am

re: #360 flynmudd

Question: Is it my responsibility to bail my neighbor out every single time they make a bad decision? When is enough enough by the way? Stupidity is not an excuse.

Call me heartless. There is something called personal responsibility in this country. Maybe if these people were to allowed to fail they would actually learn a lesson!

Amen! I got out of college two years ago and bought a house. Instead of moving out, I rented my house out and have been living with my parents for two years. And let me tell you, after four years on your own, its tough moving back in with the parents. Now I've paid off over half of my modest home, and put up with my parents more than I'd ever dreamed I would be able too.

So where's the payoff for being responsible when you've got the government teet around if you're not?

371 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:14:21am

Good morning LGF friends!


Yuck - I hated Lord of the Flies. Why do they make kids read that stuff?

372 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:14:33am

re: #361 scottishbuzzsaw

Mornin' ping...there're suppose to Bloody Marys being served but I haven't seen any yet...

I let the fruitcups ferment. Learned how in prison.

373 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:14:35am

re: #369 yochanan

Did ya see it? "Mad Sox Under Metrodome"
They have to take at least one of the next two.

374 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:15:21am

re: #368 BaseballMom57

Hey! Another Baseball Mom! YAY :)

375 jmac1492  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:16:17am

re: #362 HD Woman

Makes me sick! SICK! Babe Ruth is spinning.

If we could have hooked the late Babe up to a generator about 10 years ago, we could have generated enough power for everyone on earth. It's not "clean" power, per se, but it's still a good idea.

376 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:16:50am

re: #360 flynmudd

Question: Is it my responsibility to bail my neighbor out every single time they make a bad decision? When is enough enough by the way? Stupidity is not an excuse.

Call me heartless. There is something called personal responsibility in this country. Maybe if these people were to allowed to fail they would actually learn a lesson!

You are not heartless...what IS heartless is shielding people from the consequences of their poor decisions. Lessons will never be learned if they/we cannot own our errors...

377 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:17:04am

Good morning Lizards............

378 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:17:24am

re: #372 rancher

I let the fruitcups ferment. Learned how in prison.

That's what I like to see - the spirit of entrepreneurship.

379 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:17:43am

Good morning dorian. good morning everyone.

380 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:18:12am

re: #372 rancher

I let the fruitcups ferment. Learned how in prison.

LOL! Now that's an excellent skill to have!

381 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:18:18am

re: #373 opnion

Did ya see it? "Mad Sox Under Metrodome"
They have to take at least one of the next two.

Did the White Sox boof it?

382 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:18:22am

re: #379 mama winger

Good morning dorian. good morning everyone.

Good morning mama ((mama))

383 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:18:40am

re: #377 doriangrey

Good morning Lizards............

Mornin' Grumpy...

384 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:19:22am

re: #383 scottishbuzzsaw

Mornin' Grumpy...

Morning Marshmallow... ;)

385 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:19:27am

re: #372 rancher

I let the fruitcups ferment. Learned how in prison.

You should have plea bargained. The Plea bargain is even more wonderous than compound interest!

386 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:20:11am

re: #381 mama winger

Did the White Sox boof it?

Oh yeah, it could not have been much uglier.

387 BaseballMom57  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:20:35am

re: #360 flynmudd

Question: Is it my responsibility to bail my neighbor out every single time they make a bad decision? When is enough enough by the way? Stupidity is not an excuse.

Call me heartless. There is something called personal responsibility in this country. Maybe if these people were to allowed to fail they would actually learn a lesson!

I completely understand your point. I do. I think there were far more "investors" who bought homes with little/no down payment and with grossly overinflated (and unverified) incomes. Those people deserve to lose their shirts.

My perspective sees more of the injustices that were done to people, I think.

388 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:23:42am

re: #385 opnion

No chance to plea my way out of it, I went voluntarily. I was a guard.

389 BaseballMom57  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:23:50am

re: #112 stuiec

Upding for a Python song!

390 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:25:13am

re: #386 opnion

Oh yeah, it could not have been much uglier.

That's too bad. Where are they in the standings now?

391 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:25:31am

re: #388 rancher

No chance to plea my way out of it, I went voluntarily. I was a guard.

:)

392 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:26:45am

re: #388 rancher

No chance to plea my way out of it, I went voluntarily. I was a guard.

I played a football game against a state prison team. WoW! I never actually considered a life of crime, but if I did that experience would have put me on a different carrer path.

393 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:27:29am

Sun's coming up, reckon I'll get on out there and wake up the chickens. It's gonna be a wonderful day!
re: #297 Moe Katz

What does the HD stand for in your nic? Hard drive? Heavy duty?


Were they just yankin my chain, or does my panhead icon not show up well enough? HD to me will always be Harley Davidson. Wanted to set that straight before I go.

394 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:28:59am

re: #393 HD Woman

Sun's coming up, reckon I'll get on out there and wake up the chickens. It's gonna be a wonderful day!

Were they just yankin my chain, or does my panhead icon not show up well enough? HD to me will always be Harley Davidson. Wanted to set that straight before I go.

Now that's a nice little putt putt....

395 Oldasdirt  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:29:56am

re: #393 HD Woman

Sun's coming up, reckon I'll get on out there and wake up the chickens. It's gonna be a wonderful day!

Were they just yankin my chain, or does my panhead icon not show up well enough? HD to me will always be Harley Davidson. Wanted to set that straight before I go.

Sorry HD,,i got real bad eyesight.

396 rancher  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:30:16am

This is something not being discussed. Thank god for Michelle Malkin.

The Mother of All Bailouts has many fathers. As panicked politicians prepare to fork over $1 trillion in taxpayer funding to rescue the financial industry, they’ve fingered regulation, deregulation, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, both Bushes, greedy banks, greedy borrowers, greedy short-sellers, and minority home ownership mau-mauers (can’t call ‘em greedy, that would be racist) for blame.

But there’s one giant paternal elephant in the room that has slipped notice: how illegal immigration, crime-enabling banks and open-borders Bush policies fueled the mortgage crisis.

It’s no coincidence that most of the areas hardest hit by the foreclosure wave — Loudoun County, Va., California’s Inland Empire, Stockton and San Joaquin Valley, and Las Vegas and Phoenix, for starters — also happen to be some of the nation’s largest illegal-alien sanctuaries. Half of the mortgages to Hispanics are subprime (the accursed species of loan to borrowers with the shadiest credit histories). A quarter of all those subprime loans are in default and foreclosure.

397 HoosierHoops  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:30:39am

Good Morning Lizards!
How is everyone today? I gotta fill up my coffee cup..Dorian..need coffee?

398 irish rose  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:31:09am

Good morning, lizards.
It's 65 sunny degrees here along the Lake Michigan shoreline, another busy workday ahead.

Michelle O. has emailed Barrys' worshippers, urging them to organize "debate watching parties" and invite all of their friends to get in their faces introduce them to Barrys' long-overdue "plan".

I can hardly wait for my first invite.

399 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:31:15am

re: #393 HD Woman

Sun's coming up, reckon I'll get on out there and wake up the chickens. It's gonna be a wonderful day!

Were they just yankin my chain, or does my panhead icon not show up well enough? HD to me will always be Harley Davidson. Wanted to set that straight before I go.

Not Hot Damn then?

400 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:32:29am

re: #397 HoosierHoops

Good Morning Lizards!
How is everyone today? I gotta fill up my coffee cup..Dorian..need coffee?

Here's the coffee!

Morning HH!

401 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:33:21am

re: #394 doriangrey

Now that's a nice little putt putt....

Yeah! Ya can see it! Thank you very much! :)
Meet my Mr. Breeze, he keeps rollin down the road! We will celebrate 22 years together in January. 1953 50th anniversary model. I'm mighty proud of him.

402 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:33:27am

re: #364 opnion

Any more news on David kennel, the UofT student who hacked Palins Emails?
You know that the MSM will spin this as just a fun loving college prank.
If the Kid was a Republican & did it to BHO, they would be demanding a public execution. Ya know that they would.

"Kennel": A pack of dogs, especially hounds; noun.

Sounds about right.

403 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:34:07am

re: #397 HoosierHoops

Good Morning Lizards!
How is everyone today? I gotta fill up my coffee cup..Dorian..need coffee?

Me need coffee? Of course I do............. ;)

404 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:34:16am

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Here's the coffee!

Oooo...nice shot...by the way, just caught up on my e-mail this a.m....will be getting back w/recipe today...Good Morning!

405 quickjustice  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:35:45am

re: #357 BaseballMom57

I agree with you to this extent: in the situation you describe, someone got paid for defrauding this family. The money that was the fruit of the fraud went into someone's pocket.

Only a fraction of the transactions (lenders overreaching borrowers) match your description. If I were representing the family, I'd probably put them into bankruptcy, and sue the bank in bankruptcy court for fraud to unwind the transaction. Much faster and cheaper than a conventional lawsuit.

Of course, the loan on the bank's books is bad as well. This sounds like a bank that should fail. Whether bank officers get indicted depends on on far up the chain of command the fraud went.

As for the overall bailout, someone has to unwind all of the bad transactions, and liquidate the bad mortgage loans. Until they're written off, the bad paper will poison the economy. That must be done fast.

Who should be bailed out is the tough political question. The money market almost collapsed last Tuesday. That means if you had money in a money market account, you almost lost it (as did I). Those funds supposedly are federally insured now, but who knows for sure?

To prevent a panic that destroys our economy, the bailout must insulate consumers, and protect their savings. Beyond that, we must have transparent, fair, objective criteria for who gets bailed out, and why.

406 mama winger  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:01am

re: #398 irish rose

Rose - where along the Lake Michigan shoreline are you? Maybe we are neighbors.

407 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:03am

re: #402 rednaxela

"Kennel": A pack of dogs, especially hounds; noun.

Sounds about right.


God, I wish that I could spell.

408 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:07am

re: #401 HD Woman

Yeah! Ya can see it! Thank you very much! :)
Meet my Mr. Breeze, he keeps rollin down the road! We will celebrate 22 years together in January. 1953 50th anniversary model. I'm mighty proud of him.

And rightly so............ The only problem with having a stud like that in your stable is well, ya might not need any other men in your life... lol...lol...lol...

409 irish rose  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:08am

Unusually quiet in here this morning....

410 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:20am

re: #399 scottishbuzzsaw

Not Hot Damn then?


Naw, I just popped that off cause I thought at first they were being purposely dense & I hear Hot Damn Woman! a lot.

411 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:39am

re: #398 irish rose

Good morning, lizards.

Mornin' Irish Rose!

412 doppelganglander  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:36:42am

Mornin', all. Just a drive-by to drop a link from the invaluable Stanley Kurtz on the topic of Obama, Ayers and the shady Chicago Annenberg Challenge: Founding Brothers: What's Behind Obama's Early Rise?

413 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:37:07am

re: #407 opnion

God, I wish that I could spell.

ROTFLMAO.... FireFox has a built in spell checker.... It's my best friend.... ;)

414 irish rose  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:37:14am

re: #406 mama winger

Rose - where along the Lake Michigan shoreline are you? Maybe we are neighbors.


Grand Haven.
I'm on the western shoreline of the state, between Holland and Muskegon.

415 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:38:02am

re: #398 irish rose

Well, according to a rather energetic discussion between Madame Iulius and me, this morning, Barry's plan is merely to use all of Clinton's economic people, just eight years older and slower. I reminded her that she forgot to throw in the obligatory heap of state socialism on top of her happy sundae. She humpfed, and left for work. Working for the MSM.

416 jacksontn  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:38:22am

Good Morning Lizards,

A real nice lizard pointed me in this direction the night ..... sweet Oh, the Happy Star ...... I am going to Hawaii in my mind ......

417 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:38:32am

re: #407 opnion

No, no, you spelled it quite right.

418 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:39:51am

re: #410 HD Woman

Naw, I just popped that off cause I thought at first they were being purposely dense & I hear Hot Damn Woman! a lot.

ROTFLMAO............ One of the worst condominiums I ever face in my life... Is a hot woman on a bad ass Harley.... I can never decide which one to drool over... The hottie, or the hottie riding the hottie..... ;)

419 BaseballMom57  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:39:57am

re: #261 HD Woman

I love Eddie Arnold - Make the world go away
& Kitty Wells!

I grew up listening to the likes of Eddie Arnold and Burl Ives. My Dad always had music playing. I still love Peggy Lee and Rosemary Clooney.

420 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:40:18am

re: #412 doppelganglander

Mornin', all. Just a drive-by to drop a link from the invaluable Stanley Kurtz on the topic of Obama, Ayers and the shady Chicago Annenberg Challenge: Founding Brothers: What's Behind Obama's Early Rise?

Mornin' doppelganglander, and thanks for the link...

421 rednaxela  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:40:43am

re: #413 doriangrey

Firefox hasn't yet included the name of the Democratic Tennessee representative's son who (allegedly) hacked Sarah Palin's email.

But it will soon.

422 irish rose  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:41:21am

re: #415 Pullus Iulius

Well, according to a rather energetic discussion between Madame Iulius and me, this morning, Barry's plan is merely to use all of Clinton's economic people, just eight years older and slower. I reminded her that she forgot to throw in the obligatory heap of state socialism on top of her happy sundae. She humpfed, and left for work. Working for the MSM.



Has anyone told her that the MSM is going the way of the dinosaur?

423 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:41:36am

re: #408 doriangrey

And rightly so............ The only problem with having a stud like that in your stable is well, ya might not need any other men in your life... lol...lol...lol...

Cause it shakes me!
It stimulates me!
Oooo it vibrates me!
Thanks! That songs gonna stick with me for a while this am. :) :)

424 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:41:39am

re: #421 rednaxela

Firefox hasn't yet included the name of the Democratic Tennessee representative's son who (allegedly) hacked Sarah Palin's email.

But it will soon.

Add it yourself....

425 HoosierHoops  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:42:49am

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Here's the coffee!

Morning HH!

Morning reine..good to see you today..

426 quickjustice  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:42:54am

re: #360 flynmudd

On a personal level, you're right, of course. People who are reckless should be permitted to fail. In other words, the system should punish "moral hazard", reckless behavior that endangers yourself or others.

Congress abandoned "moral hazard" in the financial system years ago, however. Congress permitted reckless behavior on a national scale, and lots of people were permitted to be reckless with government encouragement. The situation now is so serious that we may no longer have the luxury of arguing about "moral hazard". If the ship is sinking in heavy seas, and you're aboard, you're wasting time arguing about who put the holes in the hull.

You have to work to stay afloat first, and argue about moral hazard later. Unfortunately, that's where we are right now.

427 opnion  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:43:01am

re: #417 rednaxela

No, no, you spelled it quite right.

I'll take that.

428 HD Woman  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:43:58am

re: #418 doriangrey
XOXOXOXO

429 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:44:11am

re: #422 irish rose

Perish the thought! That's half my meal ticket you're talking about.

430 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:45:32am

re: #409 irish rose

I'm lurking, reading spinoffs and comments. I'm here. Slow, but here.
G'morning.

431 doriangrey  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:45:42am

re: #428 HD Woman

XOXOXOXO

ROTFLMAO.... If you click my icon you will notice that I have a certain appreciation of fine machines.... (yes that's my ride)

432 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 24, 2008 5:46:27am

re: