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Reuters Hearts Neturei Karta

World | Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 9:13:35 am PDT

There’s something very rotten at Reuters, and this headline is a glaring symptom: Accused of anti-Semitism, Ahmadinejad meets Jews.

Reuters’ headline is clearly designed to imply that Ahmadinejad reached out to Jews after being accused of antisemitism, but the reality is the exact opposite.

The “Jews” they’re talking about belong to the lunatic fringe group called Neturei Karta, whose total world membership is about 10. Despite the fact that Neturei Karta have no influence on anyone, and exist only to be used for propaganda by antisemites, the Associated Press and Reuters make sure to photograph and write about them every single time they surface at an anti-Israel event. And they’re at every high profile anti-Israel event.

The article itself doesn’t try to hide what went on at this meeting, but anyone who reads the headline alone is going to get an insidiously false impression.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A day after being accused of making anti-Semitic comments at the United Nations, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met a fringe group of ultra-religious Jews who seek the dismantling of the state of Israel.

“Zionism has greatly weakened and, God willing, it will be destroyed soon and then all Jews, Muslims and Christians can live peacefully with one another,” Ahmadinejad told nearly a dozen rabbis from Neturei Karta International on Wednesday.

The group is a small anti-Zionist organization that says it adheres strictly to the Torah, the Jewish holy book, which it says forbids the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah. It supports Palestinian sovereignty over the Holy Land and financial restitution for past losses. Its views are considered marginal by mainstream Jews who condemned Ahmadinejad’s speech on Tuesday as anti-Semitic, as did several world leaders, human rights groups and U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

Marty Irom, spokesman for the non-profit group the Israel Project, which promotes security and peace in Israel, said Neturei Karta was a “very tiny fringe group that represents only themselves.” He said such meetings gave Ahmadinejad an “air of legitimacy which he should not have.”

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328 comments

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1 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:15:35am

Is there anyone Reuters doesn't heart?

2 Iron Fist  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:15:52am

re: #1 Outrider

Republicans.

3 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:16:15am

I favor calling them the Neturei Kaka for their crappy stance.

4 Perplexed  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:16:32am

Ah, the self hating, suicidal cult whose members happen to be Jewish.

In a way I feel sorry for these folks.

5 pegcity  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:16:48am

so is Reuters a co ownership between Iran and the house of Saud?

6 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:16:49am

Death to Israel first.....
We'll get to the rest of you next.

/dinnerjacket.

7 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:16:50am

Neutered Cats.

8 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:17:22am
A day after being accused of making anti-Semitic comments at the United Nations

See, he really didn't make anti-Semitic comments.

/ Just baseless accusations, nothing to see. Move along

9 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:17:49am

I wonder if Apefpaepd had to stand on a chair when he met them.

10 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:17:49am

Effen Joos.

11 looking closely  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:17:59am

IIRC, this isn't the first time Ahmadinejad has met with these pseudo-Jews.

Their main (and indeed only) point of agreement is that the State of Israel needs to be destroyed.

12 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:18:29am

Meets Jews

13 kynna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:18:49am

Reuters. I expect nothing better than this.

I met a guy this year who works for Reuters and it was all I could do to keep a straight face after he told me that.

14 EIDE_Interface  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:19:02am

This is the same thing as citing Norman Finklestein as representative of Jewish thought.

15 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:19:22am

Who is it who owns Reuters again?

16 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:19:31am

[deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted]

17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:19:31am

Scum.

18 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:19:37am
Its views are considered marginal by mainstream Jews who condemned Ahmadinejad’s speech on Tuesday as anti-Semitic, as did several world leaders, human rights groups and U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.


hmmm. By omission, it seems U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain must approve of their views? Otherwise why the gratuitous inclusion of Obamas' name? Seems irrelevant to the story.

19 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:20:07am

Just so you know, which I'm sure you do, they want us to beleive that Islamofascists are a "tiny minority" akin to the Neutered Cats being a tiny minority.

20 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:20:23am

re: #16 lawhawk

[deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] [deleted]

I think R*uters should become a curse word 'round here.

21 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:20:42am

WTF with the double comment?

22 Land Shark  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:22:28am

One of my Jewish friends calls Neturei Karta "Neutered Jews For Hitler". Very appropriate, I think.

23 Fat Jolly Penguin  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:23:04am

re: #21 Fat Jolly Penguin

WTF with the double comment?

Now it's not there. Eerie.

24 jwb7605  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:23:08am

re: #4 Perplexed

Ah, the self hating, suicidal cult whose members happenclaim to be Jewish.

In a way I feel sorry for these folks.

I'm not Jewish, but that's the way I've always viewed them.

25 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:23:14am
26 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:23:42am

re: #18 Outrider

hmmm. By omission, it seems U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain must approve of their views? Otherwise why the gratuitous inclusion of Obamas' name? Seems irrelevant to the story.

haha, good catch. Missed that one.

27 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:23:52am

I don't remember the exact circumstances but a few years back or at least one, someone threw a punch at one of these crazy Neturei Karta Rabbis ( and I use the term rabbi loosely ). Anyone remember?

28 pegcity  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:24:43am

re: #27 Nevergiveup

yup, they kicked the leaders ass out of every synagogue and kosher business as well

29 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:24:46am

I'll give them credit for the first paragraph.

30 blueroom127  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:24:50am

Seriously.
Can you image is the headline was something like:

Accused of Rascism, White Supremist meets with Blacks.

What a dishonest and revolting headline.

31 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:24:53am

Barbara Stria.....urh I mean Boxer is on FOX with the party line about the Debate.

32 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:25:19am

Yeah the headline should read:

Accused of anti-Semitism, Ahmadinejad meets "Jews"

33 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:25:33am

It's the editorial decision that pushes these decisions. Reuters thinks that because these radical anti-Israel nutcases are Jewish, that Ahmadinejad and Iran isn't anti-Semitic.

Iran repeatedly calls for Israel's destruction.

They don't hide that fact. All of Iran's spin doesn't hide that fact. Destroying Israel kills the Jews who live there. Period.

The Neturei Karta would love if Iran did it, since they believe that Israel is an abomination and should never have come into existence until G-d himself declares it via the Messiah.

Meanwhile, Ahmadinejad continues holding two prominent AIDS doctors without charges, including one who was attending my alma mater. There's barely a peep from the media over that. How about covering those demonstrations.

34 EIDE_Interface  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:25:49am

Obama leads in North Carolina

WTF? I thought GOP should wipe the floor there.

35 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:26:25am

re: #32 Ward Cleaver

Yeah the headline should read:

Accused of anti-Semitism, Ahmadinejad meets "Jews"

Or accused of anti-gay views, Ahmadinejad waves good bye as one swings?

36 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:26:28am

Neuterei Karta = Jews For Jihad.

37 jwb7605  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:26:45am

re: #31 Nevergiveup

Barbara Stria.....urh I mean Boxer is on FOX with the party line about the Debate.

In dyed-blonde hair and Sarah Palin glasses!
Distracts me from what must be a case she's trying to make.

38 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:26:51am

What does "Neturei Karta" mean?

39 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:27:06am

re: #31 Nevergiveup

Barbara Stria.....urh I mean Boxer is on FOX with the party line about the Debate.

Watching it. How the hell do democrats get so much solidarity in their messaging? Politicians, commentators, everyone. They are like a bunch of parrots, rattling off points like a broken record.

40 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:27:29am

re: #35 Nevergiveup

Or accused of anti-gay views, Ahmadinejad waves good bye as one swings?

Accused of Homophobia, Ahmadinejad meets Gays

(hanging from a crane)

41 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:27:39am

re: #34 EIDE_Interface

Obama leads in North Carolina

WTF? I thought GOP should wipe the floor there.

The urban centers--Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill--are rather liberal.

42 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:27:52am

re: #31 Nevergiveup

Barbara Stria.....urh I mean Boxer is on FOX with the party line about the Debate.

That, and she never shuts up.

43 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:13am

re: #39 cliffster

Watching it. How the hell do democrats get so much solidarity in their messaging? Politicians, commentators, everyone. They are like a bunch of parrots, rattling off points like a broken record.

Don't you get that 3:00 AM e-mail? Ain't on the list I guess. Neither am I.

44 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:21am

re: #38 MandyManners

What does "Neturei Karta" mean?

The "Neuterei" part sounds like "neutered".

45 rawmuse  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:37am

re: #36 Ward Cleaver

Neuterei Karta = Jews For Jihad.

Not being a Jew, I tend to avoid these threads, but that post nailed it pretty good.

46 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:40am

re: #38 MandyManners

What does "Neturei Karta" mean?

from wiki

The name Neturei Karta literally means "Guardians of the City" and comes from the gemara of the Jerusalem Talmud, Hagigah, 76c. There it is related that Rabbi Judah haNasi sent two rabbis on a tour of inspection:

In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chapter 127.[3]

It is this role that Neturei Karta see themselves as fulfilling by defending what they believe is "the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism."[3] Neturei Karta is sometimes confused with Satmar, due to both being anti-Zionist. They are separate groups.

47 Perplexed  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:41am

re: #38 MandyManners

Guardians of the City

48 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:28:43am
49 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:29:19am

re: #34 EIDE_Interface

Obama leads in North Carolina

WTF? I thought GOP should wipe the floor there.

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

You know how it goes - lies, damned lies and statistics!

50 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:29:54am

re: #48 buzzsawmonkey

"Guardians of the City," in Aramaic.

Some guardians. They want to hand over the keys to the gates.

51 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:30:01am

re: #38 MandyManners

What does "Neturei Karta" mean?

The name Neturei Karta literally means "Guardians of the City" and comes from the gemara of the Jerusalem Talmud, Hagigah, 76c. There it is related that Rabbi Judah haNasi sent two rabbis on a tour of inspection:

In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chapter 127.[3]


Wiki says they have about 5,000 total around the world.

52 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:30:22am

re: #49 galloping granny

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

You know how it goes - lies, damned lies and statistics!

Wow....affirmative action in poling even.

53 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:30:23am

re: #1 Outrider

Roto-Rueters - The outfit that keeps your NewsToilet flushing.

54 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:30:45am

re: #49 galloping granny

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

Obama wants to campaign with a "handicap" like he's playing golf.

I got 44% of the vote, but I'm an 8 handicap, so give me 52%

55 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:30:59am
56 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:02am

re: #37 jwb7605

In dyed-blonde hair and Sarah Palin glasses!
Distracts me from what must be a case she's trying to make.

Another Hollywood elite that is past her time and is attempting to make herself once again relevant.

57 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:03am

Thanks, Lizards!

It seems incredibly oxymoronic.

58 CommonSense  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:11am

re: #41 MandyManners

Need those government sponsored social programs to justify the vote.
"Vote for me, I feed you"

59 vxbush  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:17am

re: #49 galloping granny

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

You know how it goes - lies, damned lies and statistics!

In other words, Obama is being helped via affirmative action.

60 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:30am

re: #49 galloping granny

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

You know how it goes - lies, damned lies and statistics!

If that was the case, then there data would have to show Obam up 12 and they would subtract 6 for the "Bradley effect". I don't think so. The way pollsters make money is by being accurate for what ever they are trying to poll.

61 vxbush  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:31am

re: #52 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Wow....affirmative action in poling even.

GMTA!

62 Dianna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:31:32am

re: #39 cliffster

Watching it. How the hell do democrats get so much solidarity in their messaging? Politicians, commentators, everyone. They are like a bunch of parrots, rattling off points like a broken record.

With Babs? You just record the message and pull the string. She might as well be a parrot, just not as self-willed.

Barbara Boxer worries me more than almost any other person in the Senate. I cannot figure out how she manages to stay upright when speaking.

Yes, I am under the impression that she is not terribly bright.

63 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:32:07am

re: #49 galloping granny

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

You know how it goes - lies, damned lies and statistics!

Also EIDE_Interface cherry picks his polls. Real Clear Politics has McCain up by 3 in NC.
[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

64 Twilight  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:32:17am

What can you expect from Al Reuters? They can always do worse than last time.

OT:
Jewish Creationists (of the Biblical literalism kind) are having a big party in A synagogue just outside my house. Rosh Ha-Shana (Jewish new year) is in 6 days and since they believe creation ended on Rosh Ha-Shana they are having a big celebration to mark the beginning of creation.
They are driving me nuts with their loud speakers and music. For the last half hour they've been singing "In 6 days G-d has made...".
If they won't stop soon I'l need psychological help.

65 maddogg  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:32:23am

re: #49 galloping granny

Don't be giving the polls too much credit. Some pollster let it slip on Fox a couple of days back that the polls are being "interpreted" to give Obama a 6 or 8 point handicap for being black. The numbers we are seeing are not the real numbers - they are the "interpreted" numbers.

You know how it goes - lies, damned lies and statistics!

Can you elaborate? I would like to know more.

66 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:32:42am

re: #58 CommonSense

Need those government sponsored social programs to justify the vote.
"Vote for me, I feed you"

Maybe in the poorer sections but, the Triangle has some very high-earning people, as well as a but-load of academics.

67 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:32:48am

re: #62 Dianna

You're not allowed to say stuff like that about a successful, accomplished woman. Unless she is from Alaska.

68 vxbush  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:33:01am

re: #60 Big Steve

If that was the case, then there data would have to show Obam up 12 and they would subtract 6 for the "Bradley effect". I don't think so. The way pollsters make money is by being accurate for what ever they are trying to poll.

But they are only polling landlines, not cell phones, right? Then the survey isn't going to representative because it will miss those folks who only have cell phones.

69 Twilight  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:33:43am

re: #1 Outrider

Answer to your question:
Jews, patriotic Americans, NATO troops, conservatives everywhere.

70 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:33:47am

One man's Jew is another man's freedom fighter.

/subtly ... think back to the Reuters honcho's original statement

71 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:34:07am

Ahmadinejad has no problems meeting with "Jews" who accept their dhimmi status.

72 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:34:08am

re: #58 CommonSense

Need those government sponsored social programs to justify the vote.
"Vote for me, I feed you"

That is the entire basis for the new Democrat party. Entitlements. Want the entitlements to continue? Vote Democrat. That has been the message for a few years now.

73 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:34:15am
Neturei Karta, whose total world membership is about 10...

Actually there are a few thousand of them living in Israel. And a couple hundred of them in London.

I doubt there are more than 50-100 of them in the US, mostly in New York.

Most of them are crazy, all of them are fools.

74 Dianna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:34:23am

re: #56 Outrider

Barbara Boxer is not a Hollywood type, dear. She's a Bay Area liberal, and I cannot figure out how the hell she got elected. I don't actually remember it.

All I am sure about is that I didn't vote for her, nor would I.

75 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:34:25am
76 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:34:29am

This Affirmative Action lying in the polls could lead to loud protesting that the actual election was rigged.

77 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:08am
78 RememberSekhmet?  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:13am

Don't worry about polls right now. It's getting towards time to have registrations in to vote in the upcoming election. Which means liberal groups are out registering everything that moves as a Democrat. Which affects the ratio of registered Democrats to registered Republicans---even if most of the newly-registered are unlikely to go to the polls in November.

79 Spiritualized  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:17am

NK are the insane fringe, far more dangerous are groups like 'J Street', 'Peace Now' and 'Jews for Justice in Palestine', since they have an air of respectability and have the ear of congressmen and senators.

80 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:22am

re: #76 MandyManners

This Affirmative Action lying in the polls could lead to loud protesting that the actual election was rigged.

BINGO !

81 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:28am

re: #76 MandyManners

This Affirmative Action lying in the polls could lead to loud protesting that the actual election was rigged.

That's what losers do - they start making excuses for failure well in advance.

82 Defector01  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:56am

Neutrei Karta are basically not Jews at this point - no group in Judaism accepts them as part of the faith or as anything but toys for anti-semities. They were removed decades ago; even a rudimentary search or question to any Jewish leader from any of the sects would have told Reuters that.

This article is covering fire to get people to accept that the Hitler of Iran is not really a Hitler. This is the first case of real anti-semitism i've seen with my own eyes from Reuters

83 Rancher  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:35:59am

I'm assuming the ten number is sarcasm, how many of these...I don't know what to call them, Neturei Karta and what does that mean, are there? What is their motivation? Are they like the Christian groups that dined with Dinnerjacket? The ABM doctrine: We gotta talk with these folks."

84 Dianna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:36:07am

re: #67 cliffster

You're not allowed to say stuff like that about a successful, accomplished woman. Unless she is from Alaska.

I know.

I'm afraid I'm going to say it, anyway.

85 maddogg  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:36:08am

re: #76 MandyManners

This Affirmative Action lying in the polls could lead to loud protesting that the actual election was rigged.

The Democrats scream that every time they lose anyway.

86 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:36:50am

re: #66 MandyManners

Maybe in the poorer sections but, the Triangle has some very high-earning people, as well as a but-load of academics.

And a lot of those academics rely on the government sponsored endowments and sponsored research. Especially in the arena of environmental issues. Lots of bucks being tossed out the Republicans would cut.

87 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:36:52am

re: #39 cliffster

Watching it. How the hell do democrats get so much solidarity in their messaging? Politicians, commentators, everyone. They are like a bunch of parrots, rattling off points like a broken record.

They've all been hypnotized by the 0ne.
/

88 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:37:18am

re: #44 Ward Cleaver

The "Neuterei" part sounds like "neutered".

"Neutered" is a technical term.
Can you come up with something more ... uh ... descriptive?

/not me, I don't wanna get banned

89 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:37:23am

Obama corruption probe started in Illinois :


A $100,000 state grant for a botanic garden in Englewood that then-state Sen. Barack Obama awarded in 2001 to a group headed by a onetime campaign volunteer is now under investigation by the Illinois attorney general amid new questions, prompted by Chicago Sun-Times reports, about whether the money might have been misspent.

The garden was never built. And now state records obtained by the Sun-Times show $65,000 of the grant money went to the wife of Kenny B. Smith, the Obama 2000 congressional campaign volunteer who heads the Chicago Better Housing Association, which was in charge of the project for the blighted South Side neighborhood.

90 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:37:27am

This guy is their head nutter

91 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:37:47am

“Zionism has greatly weakened and, God willing, it will be destroyed soon and then all Jews(,) Muslims and Christians can live peacefully with one another,”

Silly Reuters put a comma here instead of a period.

92 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:37:58am

re: #77 buzzsawmonkey

That is what it is for.

Words make worlds.

93 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:38:24am

re: #90 Shug

This guy is their head nutter

Kinda looks like Woody Allen?

94 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:38:57am

re: #68 vxbush

But they are only polling landlines, not cell phones, right? Then the survey isn't going to representative because it will miss those folks who only have cell phones.

I have a tiny wee bit of experience with pollsters. When I was an executive for one of the "Big Oil" guys and had a job where all our retail gas stations reported up through me, I asked the question (this was in the late 80's), "do women buy gasoline differently than men?" We used pollsters, surveys, and focus groups. The pollsters can find ANYBODY within an area, geography, demographic you want. They are really good.

By the way, women do buy gasoline different than men and I am not referring to the putting the nozzle in the tank part. Men are essentially gas-sluts and will pull into any station regardless and fill up. Women will go way out of their way to find a gas station that feels "safe."

95 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:39:05am

re: #89 karmic_inquisitor

Yeah, maybe, but he never fired a cop.

96 Charles  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:39:11am

The number '10' is sarcasm, yes - Wikipedia says there are about 5000 of these freaks, but I suspect that's wildly exaggerated.

97 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:39:22am

re: #74 Dianna

Barbara Boxer is not a Hollywood type, dear. She's a Bay Area liberal, and I cannot figure out how the hell she got elected. I don't actually remember it.

All I am sure about is that I didn't vote for her, nor would I.


You are correct, I got off on a tangent for a different Barbara referred to earlier. mea culpa.

98 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:39:32am
99 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:39:34am

re: #80 Shug

re: #81 cliffster

re: #85 maddogg

A few years ago I would've been hard-pressed to believe such depths of cynicism existed in pollsters. My, how I have learned!

100 doppelganglander  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:40:00am

OT: Rush just said that Harry Reid tried to sneak a ban on oil shale drilling into the big bailout, and Jim DeMint found it. WTF? It's like Dingy Harry is 6 years old and trying to sneak the sugary cereal into Mom's cart when she's not looking.

101 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:40:33am

File this under: No Shocker here

Israel ambassador to UN: General Assembly chief is an Israel hater

Brockmann, a 75-year-old Catholic priest, was scheduled to dine alongside Ahmadinejad in a meal marking the end the Ramadan fast, organized by five American religious groups.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

102 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:40:42am

re: #86 Outrider

And a lot of those academics rely on the government sponsored endowments and sponsored research. Especially in the arena of environmental issues. Lots of bucks being tossed out the Republicans would cut.

It's not just the poor who're at the government teat.

103 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:41:04am

re: #60 Big Steve

If that was the case, then there data would have to show Obam up 12 and they would subtract 6 for the "Bradley effect". I don't think so. The way pollsters make money is by being accurate for what ever they are trying to poll.

You don't know much about marketing, do you?

104 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:41:11am

re: #94 Big Steve

You were an oil exec? So you're the reason why gas is so expensive, inflation is out of control, and the air is poisoned. Thanks a lot.
/

105 leboaz  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:42:19am

re: #48 buzzsawmonkey

Since you obviously know more than I ever will- I would like you to recommend a place where I can get some very old scrolls translated. I have been told they are in Aramaic, but that's all. Any ideas?
Thanks fellow Lizard

106 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:42:57am

re: #94 Big Steve

I have a tiny wee bit of experience with pollsters. When I was an executive for one of the "Big Oil" guys and had a job where all our retail gas stations reported up through me, I asked the question (this was in the late 80's), "do women buy gasoline differently than men?" We used pollsters, surveys, and focus groups. The pollsters can find ANYBODY within an area, geography, demographic you want. They are really good.

By the way, women do buy gasoline different than men and I am not referring to the putting the nozzle in the tank part. Men are essentially gas-sluts and will pull into any station regardless and fill up. Women will go way out of their way to find a gas station that feels "safe."

There is a difference between the kind of polling you are talking about and the kind of polling that is used to form public opinion.

107 Oldasdirt  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:43:28am

Just posting this to see my new avitar.Mc/Palin 08

108 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:43:39am

Gaza baby born in Israel to mother left brain dead by stroke

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

What page in the NYT do you think we'll find this story, and how can it be twisted to make the Jeeees sound bad?

109 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:44:12am

re: #104 cliffster

You were an oil exec? So you're the reason why gas is so expensive, inflation is out of control, and the air is poisoned. Thanks a lot.
/

Yes.....it is all my fault.....and now I work for a chemical company so evil is in my very soul.

110 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:44:49am

re: #107 Oldasdirt

Just posting this to see my new avitar.Mc/Palin 08

Unless Mc/ Palin intend on attacking Europe by air ,, not so much

111 Spiritualized  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:44:50am

re: #34 EIDE_Interface

Obama leads in North Carolina

WTF? I thought GOP should wipe the floor there.

September 2000 - Gore Leads in Three of Five Key States

A new Chicago Tribune poll shows Democratic candidate Vice President Al Gore leading Republican candidate Governor George W. Bush in three of five key states. Results of the poll are published in the Sunday, September 24, Chicago Tribune

CNN September 2000: Tracking poll: Modest Gore lead persists

Interviews with 701 likely voters conducted September 11-13 give Democrat presidential nominee Gore a seven point lead over Republican rival Bush

112 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:44:59am

re: #100 doppelganglander

OT: Rush just said that Harry Reid tried to sneak a ban on oil shale drilling into the big bailout, and Jim DeMint found it. WTF? It's like Dingy Harry is 6 years old and trying to sneak the sugary cereal into Mom's cart when she's not looking.

He needs a spanking and a time-out!

113 merrytexas  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:45:48am

re: #100 doppelganglander

Here's Jim DeMint's website exposing Harry Reid.
[Link: demint.senate.gov...]

114 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:45:58am

re: #112 MandyManners

He needs a spanking and a time-out!

He needs to be retired.

115 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:46:25am

I understand these guys feel the state of Israel shouldn't exist because the state shouldn't exist until the arrival of the Messiah. I'm aware that statement is crudely stated. Is there really anything in the Torah to back them up? If so, how does Israel rationalize it? Really curious.

116 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:46:56am

re: #106 galloping granny

probably...but the question was can pollsters find people who don't have landlines and either don't have phones or only have cell phones. And I was speculating from the experience I have had with pollsters that they can find anyone. You comments, which I agree, by the way, are what the pollsters actually asks. If one commissions a poll to find out who is voting for who and says please limit it to residents of downtown Newark New Jersey, one can probably guess at the results.

117 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:46:58am

re: #114 galloping granny

He needs to be retired.

There is no reason for him to retire completely. I hear they are looking for a new Alfred E. Neuman look a like?

118 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:47:12am

These neutered cat guys have nothing on the orange jumpsuit wearing protesters.

they look more like actors from a Gilbert and Sullivan show

119 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:47:26am

re: #107 Oldasdirt

Just posting this to see my new avitar.Mc/Palin 08

Whoa - Microprose. Sweet.

120 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:47:29am

re: #109 Big Steve

Yes.....it is all my fault.....and now I work for a chemical company so evil is in my very soul.

Ah well. Consistent if nothing else. lol ;-)>

121 Oldasdirt  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:47:41am

re: #110 sattv4u2

Unless Mc/ Palin intend on attacking Europe by air ,, not so much


Naw,,my love for the game is almost as much as the love of Sahra Palin.
Almost!

122 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:48:03am

re: #103 galloping granny

You don't know much about marketing, do you?

4 out of 5 dentists could tell him. ;-)

123 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:48:41am

re: #120 Outrider

Ah well. Consistent if nothing else. lol ;-)>


Yes everyone hates me.....until their kid needs a job.

124 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:48:54am

re: #109 Big Steve

Yes.....it is all my fault.....and now I work for a chemical company so evil is in my very soul.

I was deeply influnced by one of the 16mm movies in school.

Better Living Through Chemistry!

I was brainwashed by BIG CHEMISTRY!

125 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:49:58am
126 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:49:59am

re: #124 jcm

I was deeply influnced by one of the 16mm movies in school.

Better Living Through Chemistry!

I was brainwashed by BIG CHEMISTRY!


I had a cat named Benzene once.

127 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:50:06am

re: #124 jcm

I was deeply influnced by one of the 16mm movies in school.

Better Living Through Chemistry!

I was brainwashed by BIG CHEMISTRY!

quit sniffing the "chemistry" up your nose and you'll be fine!

128 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:50:13am
129 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:50:25am

re: #12 Ben Hur

Meets Jews

New CBS comedy next Fall
"meet the Jews"

Premise:

The Jews - a wandering family of Jews travel from Muslim Land to Muslim Land and learn that we can "all get along" through the dry humor of the Muslim clergy and police.

130 maddogg  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:50:41am

OT
Pakistan's President says Sarah Palin is "gorgeous" and wants to hug her.

So take a number, masher.

131 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:50:43am

re: #118 Shug

These neutered cat guys have nothing on the orange jumpsuit wearing protesters.

they look more like actors from a Gilbert and Sullivan show

"I am the very model of a modern Jewish Liberal..." Sorry I'm not that familiar with the song, once I am, maybe I can extend the gag a bit.

132 RememberSekhmet?  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:03am

re: #115 Outrider

I understand these guys feel the state of Israel shouldn't exist because the state shouldn't exist until the arrival of the Messiah. I'm aware that statement is crudely stated. Is there really anything in the Torah to back them up? If so, how does Israel rationalize it? Really curious.

And as for holding out for the Messiah, how is anybody supposed to know when the Messiah shows up? It's kind of like that old joke about the guy who drowned in a flood waiting for God to rescue him, who was told when he got to Heaven: "Didn't I send you two boats and a helicopter?"

133 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:11am

re: #103 galloping granny

You don't know much about marketing, do you?

What was John Kerry polling in 2004? Up by 3 or 4, right?

134 leboaz  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:21am

re: #125 buzzsawmonkey

Thank You-
Not much out here in the desert, but I'll make my way.

135 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:28am

re: #105 leboaz

Are they Dead See scrolls?

/punny

136 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:31am

re: #118 Shug

These neutered cat guys have nothing on the orange jumpsuit wearing protesters.

they look more like actors from a Gilbert and Sullivan show


I keep thinking of Mel Brooks taking his hat off in "Robin Hood, Men in Tights"

137 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:39am

re: #126 Big Steve

I had a cat named Benzene once.

Was his mate named Ethylbenzene?

And their kittens, Toluene, Pyrene, and Chrysene?

/:-)

138 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:51:42am

re: #133 cliffster

What was John Kerry polling in 2004? Up by 3 or 4, right?

I mean, the day before the elections. Polling 3 or 4 up, the day before the election.

139 Rancher  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:52:03am

re: #83 Rancher

The ABM doctrine: We gotta talk with these folks."

PIMF: The BHO doctrine: We gotta talk with these folks.

I need to go to bed. Thanks Charles, 5000, maybe, members. The Truthers beat that by a factor of how many? I can get 5000 people to believe something.

/Don't call me on that.

/Might get ugly.

140 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:52:16am

re: #137 Honorary Yooper

Was his mate named Ethylbenzene?

And their kittens, Toluene, Pyrene, and Chrysene?

/:-)


His mother's name was Damnit.

141 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:52:35am

re: #124 jcm

I was deeply influnced by one of the 16mm movies in school.

Better Living Through Chemistry!

I was brainwashed by BIG CHEMISTRY!

GMTA. I was just going to say Better Living Through Chemistry. Except for those folks that seem to think we would be better off living in caves eating raw meat, roots, and bugs.

142 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:53:18am

re: #137 Honorary Yooper

Was his mate named Ethylbenzene?

And their kittens, Toluene, Pyrene, and Chrysene?

/:-)

I once owned a Crysene Minivan ,, does that count/

143 FloridaAnole  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:53:31am

re: #49 galloping granny

Huh? Affirmative action polling? ?

144 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:53:40am

re: #133 cliffster

What was John Kerry polling in 2004? Up by 3 or 4, right?

Something like that - or more. It is very easy to slant a poll.

145 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:53:42am

re: #128 Kenneth

Palin's email hacked again!

That's funny.

146 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:53:48am

re: #137 Honorary Yooper

I had a cat named Buckyball. Fer real.

147 leboaz  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:53:53am

re: #135 Cap'n DOC
I thought they were just curly ques, but there are far better punsters here. . . .

148 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:54:21am

re: #123 Big Steve

Yes everyone hates me.....until their kid needs a job.

I don't hate you unless you don't have any contracts for environmental consultants. :-)

149 galloping granny  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:54:32am

re: #143 FloridaAnole

Huh? Affirmative action polling? ?

That is what the man said . . . .

150 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:54:38am
151 Oldasdirt  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:54:50am

re: #140 Big Steve

His mother's name was Damnit.


I had a cat named 'Dinner" durring the Clinton years,because i never knew for sure if it would not come to that.

152 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:54:58am

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

"I am the very model of a modern Jewish Liberal..." Sorry I'm not that familiar with the song, once I am, maybe I can extend the gag a bit.

I had thought the same thing, but didn't have time to finish it.
buzzsawmonkey did

153 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:55:19am

re: #101 Nevergiveup

File this under: No Shocker here

Israel ambassador to UN: General Assembly chief is an Israel hater

Brockmann, a 75-year-old Catholic priest, was scheduled to dine alongside Ahmadinejad in a meal marking the end the Ramadan fast, organized by five American religious groups.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Here's some pertinent info on Brockmann, from his Wikipedia article:

D'Escoto was ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Maryknoll congregation, before engaging in politics. He was a key figure in the founding of the Maryknoll imprint, Orbis Books, in 1970, and was an official with the World Council of Churches. As an adherent of liberation theology, he secretly joined the Sandinistas.

He first publicly expressed support for the FSLN as one of Los Doce, in October 1977, and was appointed foreign minister after the Sandinista triumph in 1979. He served as foreign minister in Daniel Ortega's FSLN government from 1979 to 1990.[5] Pope John Paul II admonished him and other priests in the government for getting involved in politics. Early in the Contra war, the Reagan administration perceived him as a relative moderate who might break with the regime. While foreign minister, he received the Lenin Peace Prize for 1985-6, and the Thomas Merton Award for 1987.[6]

Not the kind of priest I'd ever associate with.

154 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:55:21am

re: #114 galloping granny

He needs to be retired.

Permanent time-out.

155 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:55:48am

re: #147 leboaz

Well, I know I couldn't read them since I'm blind. And don't know a lick of Hebrew. If they were Latin, or French...

156 Celtic Templar  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:56:16am

Obama down 8 points in 2 weeks in North Carolina

re: #138 cliffster

I mean, the day before the elections. Polling 3 or 4 up, the day before the election.

And note on the RCP poll, not the number but the trend. It went from 11 on 9/11 to 3 on 9/25 during all of this "economic turmoil". -8 points in 2 weeks. That's a freaking heart attack for a campaign - get the defibs ready.

157 Tigger2005  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:56:37am

re: #1 Outrider

Is there anyone Reuters doesn't heart?

Decent people.

158 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:56:53am
159 doppelganglander  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:56:54am

re: #113 merrytexas

Here's Jim DeMint's website exposing Harry Reid.
[Link: demint.senate.gov...]

Thanks. I cannot imagine how Reid thought he was going to get away with it. In this economy, with $4 gas, how do you spin it to the American people that banning drilling is a good thing? Just hope they don't realize it's got 3 times the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia?

160 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:57:14am

re: #153 Ward Cleaver

He sounds like an associate of Michael Pfleger. The Vatican takes a very dim view of Liberation Theology, the WCC, and priests getting involved in politics.

161 nyc redneck  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:57:20am

i'm sure these pathetic people got an invitation to the dinjac party at the hyatt today.

162 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:57:23am

re: #127 sattv4u2

quit sniffing the "chemistry" up your nose and you'll be fine!

Tried sniffing coke through a straw once.....
the bubbles made me sneeze.
/

163 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:57:41am

re: #157 Tigger2005

They obviously love LGF or they wouldn't spend so much of their time trolling over here.

164 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:57:50am

re: #128 Kenneth

Palin's email hacked again!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Bill never misses a trick, does he?

165 Nevergiveup  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:57:54am

re: #160 Honorary Yooper

He sounds like an associate of Michael Pfleger. The Vatican takes a very dim view of Liberation Theology, the WCC, and priests getting involved in politics.

Then why don't they start excommunicating some?

166 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:58:04am

re: #128 Kenneth

Palin's email hacked again!

ROFLMAO!

167 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:58:10am

re: #162 jcm

Tried sniffing coke through a straw once.....
the bubbles made me sneeze.
/

I did that too. Then I told Bubbles to get her own damn coke and straw!

168 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:58:34am

re: #128 Kenneth

Palin's email hacked again!

Sweeet. The wjc emails are the best.

169 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:58:48am

Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008

Name Office Party/State Total
1. Dodd, Christopher J S D-CT $133,900

2. Kerry, John S D-MA $111,000

3. Obama, Barack S D-IL $105,849

4. Clinton, Hillary S D-NY $75,550

5. Kanjorski, Paul E H D-PA $65,500

6. Bennett, Robert F S R-UT $61,499

7. Johnson, Tim S D-SD $61,000

8. Conrad, Kent S D-ND $58,991

9. Davis, Tom H R-VA $55,499

10. Bond, Christopher S 'Kit' S R-MO $55,400

170 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:58:52am

re: #148 Honorary Yooper

I don't hate you unless you don't have any contracts for environmental consultants. :-)


So true story here, at that Big Oil company I once worked for, we got a new CEO. One day while talking to his neighbor, the neighbor asked our CEO if there were any summer jobs at our company for college students. The CEO didn't know so next day at work he asked the HR VP "how does someone get a job around here." Two weeks later the CEO received a newly initiated and completed 50 page report on the companies hiring practices.

171 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:13am

re: #160 Honorary Yooper

He sounds like an associate of Michael Pfleger. The Vatican takes a very dim view of Liberation Theology, the WCC, and priests getting involved in politics.

Yeah, Brockmann got a public bitchslapping from JPII, and that tells me all I need to know about him.

172 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:14am

re: #123 Big Steve

How about, until they want to stop living in a cave.

173 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:20am

re: #159 doppelganglander

Thanks. I cannot imagine how Reid thought he was going to get away with it. In this economy, with $4 gas, how do you spin it to the American people that banning drilling is a good thing? Just hope they don't realize it's got 3 times the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia?

I think a more important question is when the hell are going to build more refineries and build them in an area where any tropical storm won't take them off line, much less get destroyed in a hurricane?

174 Celtic Templar  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:24am

re: #156 Celtic Templar

Ah crap, read it backwards ...

175 doppelganglander  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:32am

re: #114 galloping granny

He needs to be retired.

My prediction (which is worth about what you paid for it): McCain wins in November; Republicans hold steady or make small gains in Congress; Pelosi and Reid are removed from leadership.

176 jwb7605  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:35am

re: #115 Outrider

I understand these guys feel the state of Israel shouldn't exist because the state shouldn't exist until the arrival of the Messiah. I'm aware that statement is crudely stated. Is there really anything in the Torah to back them up? If so, how does Israel rationalize it? Really curious.

I've never heard of anything (disclaimer again, I'm not Jewish), but I would note that this group only looks backwards to the Torah.
There's nothing wrong with studying "your book only", but it limits you to only looking in one direction.

These people give no credence to the Bible. If they did, they might still take their position based on this snippet from the Bible, repeated in Revelations.

They apparently believe that the arrival of the Messiah will be a flagrantly obvious event. The Bible clearly indicates that the event will be easy to miss.

177 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:48am

re: #146 cliffster

I had a cat named Buckyball. Fer real.

When my uncle was a kid, he had a cat named "Fuzzy Butt". He called it "Fuzzy Nut" when my grandmother wasn't around.

178 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 9:59:53am

re: #150 buzzsawmonkey

Excellent! I missed that the first time around. Oh, Great. Now I'm humming.

179 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:00:07am

I hate cats

180 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:00:16am

re: #159 doppelganglander

Thanks. I cannot imagine how Reid thought he was going to get away with it. In this economy, with $4 gas, how do you spin it to the American people that banning drilling is a good thing? Just hope they don't realize it's got 3 times the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia?

Isn't the estimate 92 billion barrels?

181 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:00:17am

re: #169 Kenneth

Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008

Don't hold your breath waiting for the MSM to mention that.

182 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:00:39am

re: #175 doppelganglander

My prediction (which is worth about what you paid for it): McCain wins in November; Republicans hold steady or make small gains in Congress; Pelosi and Reid are removed from leadership.

From your lips...

183 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:01:34am

re: #179 Shug

I hate cats


dude.....you need to duck and cover saying that around here. Check out how many avatars have cat pics!

184 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:01:41am

re: #173 Outrider

I think a more important question is when the hell are going to build more refineries and build them in an area where any tropical storm won't take them off line, much less get destroyed in a hurricane?

I'm not agreeing with this, but the reason the refineries are where they are is simple logic. They are near seaports where the tankers come in. It would be very costly to ship the crude to lest say central Indiana. Railway is an option, but the infrastructure is the question

185 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:01:53am

re: #167 sattv4u2

I did that too. Then I told Bubbles to get her own damn coke and straw!

ROFL!

186 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:02:06am

re: #177 MandyManners

When my uncle was a kid, he had a cat named "Fuzzy Butt". He called it "Fuzzy Nut" when my grandmother wasn't around.

When I was a kid, an old lady on our block had a black cat, named the N-word. I kid you not.

187 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:02:07am

re: #177 MandyManners

When my uncle was a kid, he had a cat named "Fuzzy Butt". He called it "Fuzzy Nut" when my grandmother wasn't around.

My cat was named Bully. Lived up to the name. I was the only one in my family who could hold or pet him.

188 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:02:09am

re: #165 Nevergiveup

Then why don't they start excommunicating some?

They have in the past, IIRC. With Benedict, I suspect some more excommunications may be on the horizon. The main problem is that Liberation Theology is popular in Latin America.

189 Shug  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:02:09am

re: #183 Big Steve

dude.....you need to duck and cover saying that around here. Check out how many avatars have cat pics!

yes, and I sneeze every time I log in

190 ErnieG  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:02:13am

re: #109 Big Steve

Yes.....it is all my fault.....and now I work for a chemical company so evil is in my very soul.

I was on vacation with my family, years ago, and we were on an interpretive nature hike through the Georgia woods, led by an idealistic university student. She made a remark about chemical fertilizers, and I mentioned that I worked for a phosphate company. She asked if I actually made chemical fertilizer, and I said, "Not presently. I'm a project engineer building an open pit phosphate mine in Florida."

If I could have saved the look she gave me, I could have used it to kill the roaches in my kitchen.

191 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:03:16am

re: #179 Shug

I hate cats

My dogs agree with you. They go nuts when they see a cat, even if it is far across the street.
I'd be fine with cats, but I do like dogs better.

192 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:03:38am
193 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:03:41am

re: #173 Outrider

I think a more important question is when the hell are going to build more refineries and build them in an area where any tropical storm won't take them off line, much less get destroyed in a hurricane?


I think I have the answer to that...........

194 ROPMA  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:03:54am

I once named 2 cats..Vermin & Varmint.

195 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:04:44am

re: #107 Oldasdirt

Just posting this to see my new avitar.Mc/Palin 08


two thumbs up.

196 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:02am

re: #194 ROPMA

I once named 2 cats..Vermin & Varmint.

Ours was... Furball.

197 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:02am

re: #184 sattv4u2

I'm not agreeing with this, but the reason the refineries are where they are is simple logic. They are near seaports where the tankers come in. It would be very costly to ship the crude to lest say central Indiana. Railway is an option, but the infrastructure is the question

Pipelines would work, but they're expensive and would have a lot of opposition.
There are ports in New England, and we usually don't get the worst hurricanes, but there are too many moonbats here for a refinery to get approval.

198 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:05am

re: #181 Ward Cleaver
Obama got all his $$ in just 3 (?) years too. He hasn't been there since 1989 like the other big $$ recipients.

199 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:22am

re: #187 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My cat was named Bully. Lived up to the name. I was the only one in my family who could hold or pet him.

I once had a cat named Atilla. She was a stray whom I brought in after being hit by a car. She whipped my cat Remus' butt.

200 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:24am
201 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:44am

re: #74 Dianna

Barbara Boxer is not a Hollywood type, dear. She's a Bay Area liberal, and I cannot figure out how the hell she got elected. I don't actually remember it.

All I am sure about is that I didn't vote for her, nor would I.

The reason that Boxer and Feinstein always get re-elected is because the Republican Party never even tries to run a serious candidate against them.

And whoever does try to run against them gets no support from the Republican Party.

202 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:05:49am

re: #190 ErnieG
good one......by the way some of the most flamboyant, extremist, and talented environmentalists I ever met, worked for our chemical company. And they could demonstrably show in tonnage how much pollution they had saved by working within the system.

203 Spiritualized  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:01am

NYT: Report Says Problems Led to Skewed Surveying Data

The new $10 million polling system used by many news organizations to predict the outcome of the presidential race had a number of problems that led to the early erroneous impression that John Kerry was heading for victory, according to a report prepared by the system's architects.

(...)

Whatever the case, according to the report, the surveys had the biggest partisan skew since at least 1988, the earliest election the report tracked.

I'm guessing that skew record will be smashed this year.

It went on, "We made a mistake in not realizing the full impact of these leaked exit poll numbers on the political discourse of the day.''

Even Tony Blair, the British prime minister, was fooled. In an interview with The Times of London, Mr. Blair said he had gone to bed thinking Mr. Kerry was the next president of the United States, only to wake up to learn otherwise.

How badly would the dems lose if they couldn't cheat? I'm guessing by double-digits at least.

204 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:04am

Petronius the Arbiter

205 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:48am

re: #186 Ward Cleaver

When I was a kid, an old lady on our block had a black cat, named the N-word. I kid you not.

Reminds me of one of the X's buddie. He had a jet-black stray who was impregnated by his barn-cat. He called the stray the "N" word until I tore into him.

206 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:50am

re: #184 sattv4u2

I'm not agreeing with this, but the reason the refineries are where they are is simple logic. They are near seaports where the tankers come in. It would be very costly to ship the crude to lest say central Indiana. Railway is an option, but the infrastructure is the question

Pipelines are used more often than not. That's how the crude comes out of the Nprth Slope, and that how crude comes out of places in Alberta, Illinois, and other land-locked areas. You can place a refinery anywhere near one of these pipelines easily. In fact, we have two here in SW Chicagoland just like that.

207 soccerdad  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:51am

re: #76 MandyManners

This Affirmative Action lying in the polls could lead to loud protesting that the actual election was rigged.

They are busy setting up the excuses for the coming McCain/Palin electoral landslide.

208 godfrey  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:06:58am

OT

Sorry, this bears repeating from a post by Kenneth on a thread below:

Jamie Gorelick, rumored to be an attorney general candidate in an Obama administration, was vice chairman of Fannie Mae from 1997 to 2003.
209 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:07:01am

re: #101 Nevergiveup

File this under: No Shocker here

Israel ambassador to UN: General Assembly chief is an Israel hater

Brockmann, a 75-year-old Catholic priest, was scheduled to dine alongside Ahmadinejad in a meal marking the end the Ramadan fast, organized by five American religious groups.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Winner of the Lenin Peace Prize!? So I went to see who else has won this prestigous award and came across Angela Davis. Her bio includes this...

...a prominent member and political candidate of the Communist Party USA. In recent years, she no longer identifies as a communist, but rather a democratic socialist
210 doppelganglander  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:07:02am

re: #173 Outrider

I think a more important question is when the hell are going to build more refineries and build them in an area where any tropical storm won't take them off line, much less get destroyed in a hurricane?

You make an excellent point. I don't know where exactly these oil shales are, somewhere out west apparently, so why not Nevada? But only if they get rid of Harry Reid, because I don't want the guy who tried to prevent production getting credit for bringing jobs to his state.

211 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:07:14am

re: #184 sattv4u2

I'm not agreeing with this, but the reason the refineries are where they are is simple logic. They are near seaports where the tankers come in. It would be very costly to ship the crude to lest say central Indiana. Railway is an option, but the infrastructure is the question

Doesn't have to go quite that far inland. Just out of devastation's (hurricanes) way.

212 cliffster  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:07:32am

OT - did anyone see BO's satellite feed speech today on all the news channels? Where he over and over again paused mid-sentence for 5 or 6 seconds, I guess waiting for the teleprompter. It was difficult to watch, it was great fun to watch.

213 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:07:49am

re: #190 ErnieG

I was on vacation with my family, years ago, and we were on an interpretive nature hike through the Georgia woods, led by an idealistic university student. She made a remark about chemical fertilizers, and I mentioned that I worked for a phosphate company. She asked if I actually made chemical fertilizer, and I said, "Not presently. I'm a project engineer building an open pit phosphate mine in Florida."

If I could have saved the look she gave me, I could have used it to kill the roaches in my kitchen.

The population would be much lower without nitrogen fertilizer. It has been responsible for making farming much more efficient. She could have worked collecting what they used to use, manure and "nightsoil", or human manure.

214 doppelganglander  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:07:54am

re: #180 Outrider

Isn't the estimate 92 billion barrels?

According to Jim DeMint's website: Oil shale in America's West is estimated to hold be between 800 billion and 2 trillion barrels of oil -- that is more than three times the proven oil reserves in Saudi Arabia alone.

215 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:08:06am

CAIR Files FEC Complaint over Obsession

Despite the fact that the film Obsession contains no political content and was made well before the 2008 election cycle began, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, those paragons of Islamic moderation and honesty, would now have you believe that the national distribution of the DVD was an Israeli plot to elect John McCain. And they’ve filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission alleging just that.

According to MarketWire, “the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is urging the FEC to investigate whether the Clarion Fund, a non-profit organization that distributed DVDs containing ‘Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West,’ is really a front for an Israel-based group seeking to help Sen. John McCain win the U.S. presidential election.”

/vote McCain, CAIR is skeered of him!

216 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:08:18am

re: #207 soccerdad

They are busy setting up the excuses for the coming McCain/Palin electoral landslide.

There will be plenty of blame if riots break out.

217 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:08:24am

re: #197 Kosh's Shadow

Pipelines would work, but they're expensive and would have a lot of opposition.
There are ports in New England, and we usually don't get the worst hurricanes, but there are too many moonbats here for a refinery to get approval.

I'm aware of that. I was born and raised in Boston. Lived there until i was 45
Besides the moonbats blocking a refinery in New England, the sea lanes (especially from fall to spring) going there are rougher than heading to the Gulf Of Mexico. Hurricanes are the concern around the gulf, but it's a shorted timeframe and some years there are hardly any

218 Oldasdirt  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:08:34am

re: #195 Eowyn2
We still fly online with friendly pilots from all over the world,and some from France also.

219 godfrey  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:09:08am

OT

From the Wiki on Gorelick:

Even though she had no previous training nor experience in finance, Gorelick was appointed Vice Chairman of Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) from 1997 to 2003. She served alongside former Clinton Administration official Franklin Raines, and earned over $26,000,000 during her six years there.[citation needed] During that period, Fannie Mae developed a $10 billion accounting scandal.[1]

On March 25, 2002, Business Week interviewed Gorelick about the health of Fannie Mae. Gorelick is quoted as saying, "We believe we are managed safely. We are very pleased that Moody's gave us an A-minus in the area of bank financial strength -- without a reference to the government in any way. Fannie Mae is among the handful of top-quality institutions."[2] One year later, Government Regulators "accused Fannie Mae of improper accounting to the tune of $9 billion in unrecorded losses".[3]

In an additional scandal concerning falsified financial transactions that helped the company meet earnings targets for 1998, a "manipulation" that triggered multimillion-dollar bonuses for top executives.[4] Gorelick received $779,625.

Will someone please explain to me why Gorelick is in any position of fiscal oversight or responsibility?

220 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:09:09am

re: #211 Outrider

Doesn't have to go quite that far inland. Just out of devastation's (hurricanes) way.

Where are all the new refineries being built.....that is easy.....the middle east and southeast Asia.

221 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:09:26am

re: #209 CommonCents

Winner of the Lenin Peace Prize!? So I went to see who else has won this prestigous award and came across Angela Davis. Her bio includes this...

...a prominent member and political candidate of the Communist Party USA. In recent years, she no longer identifies as a communist, but rather a democratic socialist

Repackaged shit is still shit.

222 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:09:33am

re: #210 doppelganglander

You make an excellent point. I don't know where exactly these oil shales are, somewhere out west apparently, so why not Nevada? But only if they get rid of Harry Reid, because I don't want the guy who tried to prevent production getting credit for bringing jobs to his state.

These oil shales are in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming. There are others across the US, but these three states have the most.

223 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:09:46am

re: #214 doppelganglander

According to Jim DeMint's website: Oil shale in America's West is estimated to hold be between 800 billion and 2 trillion barrels of oil -- that is more than three times the proven oil reserves in Saudi Arabia alone.

Canada has 3-5 Trillion BBls of oil shale.....

I say we invade!
/

224 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:09:54am

re: #202 Big Steve

good one......by the way some of the most flamboyant, extremist, and talented environmentalists I ever met, worked for our chemical company. And they could demonstrably show in tonnage how much pollution they had saved by working within the system.

I remember reading a few years ago how some chemical companies wanted to save money and the environment by processing and re-using solvents instead of disposing them as hazardous waste. But they couldn't, because the government regulations would have made them hazardous waste processors, and that would have made it either uneconomical or impossible.

225 Dianna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:10:41am

re: #201 Ringo the Gringo

The reason that Boxer and Feinstein always get re-elected is because the Republican Party never even tries to run a serious candidate against them.

And whoever does try to run against them gets no support from the Republican Party.

Yes, but...how did Babs get elected the first time? I just don't remember, and I've always been a bit of a political junkie.

226 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:10:48am
227 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:11:16am

re: #206 Honorary Yooper

Pipelines are used more often than not. That's how the crude comes out of the Nprth Slope, and that how crude comes out of places in Alberta, Illinois, and other land-locked areas. You can place a refinery anywhere near one of these pipelines easily. In fact, we have two here in SW Chicagoland just like that.

with the political climate today, building a new pipeline would be tougher than building a refinery (all the Not In My Back Yards the pipeline would have to go through, as opposed to the one NIMBY a refinery has opposition too)

228 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:11:21am

re: #128 Kenneth

Palin's email hacked again!

I had to pass that along. Now I know I will sound stupidoe but who is fakwnr

229 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:11:48am

re: #224 Kosh's Shadow

I remember reading a few years ago how some chemical companies wanted to save money and the environment by processing and re-using solvents instead of disposing them as hazardous waste. But they couldn't, because the government regulations would have made them hazardous waste processors, and that would have made it either uneconomical or impossible.

Yep. RCRA would have to be amended from its current form in order to do that.

230 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:11:49am

re: #215 Killian Bundy

CAIR Files FEC Complaint over Obsession


/vote McCain, CAIR is skeered of him!

We seeeeeeeeeeeee youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

231 soccerdad  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:03am

re: #228 Eowyn2

I had to pass that along. Now I know I will sound stupidoe but who is fakwnr

Palin's Husband

232 Oldasdirt  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:18am

re: #222 Honorary Yooper

These oil shales are in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming. There are others across the US, but these three states have the most.


I remember hearing that it would not be profitable to use shale oil till the price went over 50$ a barrel.BINGO!

233 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:24am

re: #224 Kosh's Shadow

I remember reading a few years ago how some chemical companies wanted to save money and the environment by processing and re-using solvents instead of disposing them as hazardous waste. But they couldn't, because the government regulations would have made them hazardous waste processors, and that would have made it either uneconomical or impossible.


Yes....to actually dispose of a material like incinerate it or deep well it you have to have a hazardouse waste disposal permit. However if you bring in a material because you plan to recycle it or use it as a feedstock to make something useful, the disposer permit is not needed.

234 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:35am

doh.
I hit the send and then realized
doh
doh
doh

235 Lynn B.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:35am

re: #96 Charles

The number '10' is sarcasm, yes - Wikipedia says there are about 5000 of these freaks, but I suspect that's wildly exaggerated.

Actually, that number is probably fairly accurate. They tend to have a lot of kids.

They're scum.

I think there's a misperception running through this thread, though, about whether they're really Jews or not. They are, by any definition. They're strictly Torah-observant Jews who don't deviate from any halachic norms. They just have abhorrent ideas about Zionism and are willing to behave in an abominable way in support of those ideas.

And most of them actually live in Jerusalem (in the Mea She'arim neighborhood, I believe), so they aren't exactly promoting the physical destruction of the country. They just want to remove all traces of Jewish rule until the coming of the Messiah.

236 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:12:36am

re: #214 doppelganglander

re: #180 Outrider

Isn't the estimate 92 billion barrels?

According to Jim DeMint's website: Oil shale in America's West is estimated to hold be between 800 billion and 2 trillion barrels of oil -- that is more than three times the proven oil reserves in Saudi Arabia alone.

Who can explain the process for extracting oil from oil shale? Thanks.

237 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:13:19am

re: #224 Kosh's Shadow

I remember reading a few years ago how some chemical companies wanted to save money and the environment by processing and re-using solvents instead of disposing them as hazardous waste. But they couldn't, because the government regulations would have made them hazardous waste processors, and that would have made it either uneconomical or impossible.

Number of years ago a guy down in Nevada built a pilot plant to incinerate tires. He recovered the chemicals used to make the rubber what it is, the steel, and chemistry grade carbon. The emissions where minimal, an exceed every environmental reg.

He could'nt sell it..... no body could get past he brain block of "burning tires."

238 Dianna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:13:19am

re: #215 Killian Bundy

Ha!

Then the Chronicle of Higher Education is on McCain's side! (if you believe that....)

239 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:13:33am

re: #236 Spenser (with an S)

Who can explain the process for extracting oil from oil shale? Thanks.

squeeze ,, REAL hard !

(actually, it's a heat process IIRC)

240 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:13:42am

re: #188 Honorary Yooper

They have in the past, IIRC. With Benedict, I suspect some more excommunications may be on the horizon. The main problem is that Liberation Theology is popular in Latin America.

I wish they could get a crack over the head, or a kick in the nuts, but popes don't do that.

241 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:13:53am

re: #236 Spenser (with an S)
me....me.....me......(hand waving wildly in the air).....do you want to hear.

242 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:14:45am

re: #192 buzzsawmonkey

The alligators. Won't somebody please think of the alligators?

On this note. There is a cartoon snippet on Boomerang channel featuring Wally Gater (old toon character). He gets kidnapped from the zoo by the Animal Liberation Front and brought back to the swamp where he meets some other gaters. The ALFs start talking about how they freed Wally from the nasty old zoo where he had meals just given to him and didn't have to fight for them. It ends up with the Wally and the two gaters heading back to the zoo in the ALFs jeep. The ALFs are left standing in the swamp with a bird standing near by saying "Eat Me! Remember the order! Don't forget the order!".
It always surprised me to see that snippet on TV, not very correct. But it is funny.

243 jcm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:15:31am

re: #226 buzzsawmonkey

The way to get moonbats on board with refineries in New England is to agree to reserve sections of pipeline leading out of the refinery for rotating mural art projects with environmental themes.

They eat up bullsh*t like that.

This is the art installation at the garabage transfer station near my house.

It only cost $300,000.

244 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:15:42am

re: #241 Big Steve

re: #236 Spenser (with an S)
me....me.....me......(hand waving wildly in the air).....do you want to hear.

Yes, you in the back with your hand up? Go ahead.

245 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:15:43am

re: #233 Big Steve

Yes....to actually dispose of a material like incinerate it or deep well it you have to have a hazardouse waste disposal permit. However if you bring in a material because you plan to recycle it or use it as a feedstock to make something useful, the disposer permit is not needed.

Then they must have improved the regulations since then. This really was a win-win - the chemical company didn't have to buy and pay to dispose of solvent, only the much smaller amount of contaminant, plus the reprocessing equipment, and the environment didn't get stuff dumped or burned.

246 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:15:52am

re: #220 Big Steve

Where are all the new refineries being built.....that is easy.....the middle east and southeast Asia.

Come on people!
Where would a refinery make the most sense?
Where oil will not need tranporting 100's of miles on our highways!
Under my feet is some of the finest crude drilled in many years!
Refine it near the source!
Utah,Colorado,Nevada have the oil shale but that won't be used till after good stuff is gone!

247 doppelganglander  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:16:02am

re: #225 Dianna

Yes, but...how did Babs get elected the first time? I just don't remember, and I've always been a bit of a political junkie.

Thus saith the Wiki:

Senator Boxer's predecessor, Democrat Alan Cranston, retired in 1992. She won the open seat contest in the US Senate elections that year. She defeated Bruce Herschensohn, a conservative television commentator, by 3 percentage points after a last-minute revelation that Herschensohn had attended a strip club

Shades of Jack Ryan and Barack Obama.

248 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:16:15am

re: #223 jcm

Canada has 3-5 Trillion BBls of oil shale.....

I say we invade!
/

Isn't their shale in the middle of Canadian Nowheresville? Would they notice if we just took it?

"Hey, why is there a big hole in the middle of our country?"

*phone rings in white house*

"Hello?"
"Yah, so ah, did you guys take our oil shale?"
"Um, what's oil shale?"
"Don't play dumb, we know you took it, eh?"

249 ErnieG  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:16:21am

re: #202 Big Steve

good one......by the way some of the most flamboyant, extremist, and talented environmentalists I ever met, worked for our chemical company. And they could demonstrably show in tonnage how much pollution they had saved by working within the system.

re: #202 Big Steve

Absolutely. To mention one example: Climbing a 200 foot stack and spending a hot afternoon pulling samples through an EPA sampling rig, and following all of the excruciatingly detailed procedures, takes a lot of work and effort. It does more for the environment than walking around with a sign.

250 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:16:42am

re: #165 Nevergiveup

That isn't the way the Church does things anymore. Much more 'inclusive' you might say. Awhile back, they allowed a SA bishop who tool a governmental position to re-enter - but only as a layman. I don't remember the particulars right now.

251 jwb7605  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:16:48am

re: #241 Big Steve

me....me.....me......(hand waving wildly in the air).....do you want to hear.

Please.
I think it's a process of digging up a lot of shale, grinding the shale up, and then filtering out the oil embedded ... kind of like starting with coffee beans, then converting to coffee grounds, then adding water through a coffee filter.
But I really don't have a clue.

252 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:16:57am

re: #236 Spenser (with an S)

Who can explain the process for extracting oil from oil shale? Thanks.

Wiki has a pretty good layman's explanation with a nice picture of Shell's experimental in-situ extraction facility.

You can extract it by mining as with the oil sands in Alberta, or you can extract it using in-situ methods. In-situ is nice because it is more similar to typical oil extraction in above-surface impacts. In other words, it leaves the surface intact while extracting the oil from below.

253 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:17:11am

re: #235 Lynn B.

Actually, that number is probably fairly accurate. They tend to have a lot of kids.

They're scum.

I think there's a misperception running through this thread, though, about whether they're really Jews or not. They are, by any definition. They're strictly Torah-observant Jews who don't deviate from any halachic norms. They just have abhorrent ideas about Zionism and are willing to behave in an abominable way in support of those ideas.

And most of them actually live in Jerusalem (in the Mea She'arim neighborhood, I believe), so they aren't exactly promoting the physical destruction of the country. They just want to remove all traces of Jewish rule until the coming of the Messiah.

I don't think they'd be too happy about being under Muslim rule, no matter what they think.

254 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:17:17am

re: #217 sattv4u2

I'm aware of that. I was born and raised in Boston. Lived there until i was 45
Besides the moonbats blocking a refinery in New England, the sea lanes (especially from fall to spring) going there are rougher than heading to the Gulf Of Mexico. Hurricanes are the concern around the gulf, but it's a shorted timeframe and some years there are hardly any

Boston is where they had that (natural gas?) tank off the highway that had Ho Chi Mihns silhouette painted on it.

255 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:17:28am

re: #215 Killian Bundy

CAIR Files FEC Complaint over Obsession

/vote McCain, CAIR is skeered of him!

They're smoking crack. I wish I could've gotten one of those DVDs, but I haven't gotten a hardcopy paper in years. I don't know whether the Dallas Morning News distributed them, either.

256 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:17:49am

re: #248 Pawn of the Oppressor

It's not shale, but sand.

257 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:17:52am

re: #236 Spenser (with an S)
Steam...High pressure steam pumped into the shale releases the oil and we all know oil floats!
That's just one way!

258 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:18:13am

re: #237 jcm

Number of years ago a guy down in Nevada built a pilot plant to incinerate tires. He recovered the chemicals used to make the rubber what it is, the steel, and chemistry grade carbon. The emissions where minimal, an exceed every environmental reg.

He could'nt sell it..... no body could get past he brain block of "burning tires."

That happens sometimes. Food Irradiation is another good example. I've met Obama supporters who've learned what it really is and so have come to support it (if only I could have planted doubts about BHO in their minds, but I was on a CTA bus at the time and it would not have been wise to try), but most people just get hear the word "Irradiation" and automatically reject the idea.

259 Dianna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:18:31am

re: #247 doppelganglander

Thanks.

I literally did not remember that at all.

260 Lynn B.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:18:39am

re: #176 jwb7605

I've never heard of anything (disclaimer again, I'm not Jewish), but I would note that this group only looks backwards to the Torah.
There's nothing wrong with studying "your book only", but it limits you to only looking in one direction.

These people give no credence to the Bible. If they did, they might still take their position based on this snippet from the Bible, repeated in Revelations.

They apparently believe that the arrival of the Messiah will be a flagrantly obvious event. The Bible clearly indicates that the event will be easy to miss.

They give credence to their Bible, jwb, not yours. And the Torah clearly indicates that the event will be impossible to miss. That's a central part of a 2000 year old debate.

261 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:18:53am

re: #254 Outrider

Boston is where they had that (natural gas?) tank off the highway that had Ho Chi Mihns silhouette painted on it.

yup,,, on the SouthEast Expressway, on the Dorchester/ Quincy line

(John and John Quincy Adams rolling in their graves)

262 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:19:39am

re: #246 reloadingisnotahobby

Come on people!
Where would a refinery make the most sense?
Where oil will not need tranporting 100's of miles on our highways!
Under my feet is some of the finest crude drilled in many years!
Refine it near the source!
Utah,Colorado,Nevada have the oil shale but that won't be used till after good stuff is gone!

Wyoming, not Nevada. Nevada has few known reserves. However, the Green River formation in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming holds at least 70% of US oil shale reserves.

263 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:19:50am

re: #254 Outrider

Boston is where they had that (natural gas?) tank off the highway that had Ho Chi Mihns silhouette painted on it.

Ho Chi Mihns silhouette

264 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:20:02am

re: #255 Ward Cleaver

They're smoking crack. I wish I could've gotten one of those DVDs, but I haven't gotten a hardcopy paper in years. I don't know whether the Dallas Morning News distributed them, either.

Sadly, they're not high on crack, they're high on jihad.

265 Rancher  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:20:03am

Uhm, what the hell did I just see?

266 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:20:13am

re: #256 Cap'n DOC

It's not shale, but sand.

Actually Doc it both...depending on the region!

267 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:21:07am

re: #262 Honorary Yooper

You are correct ...I had Nev on my mind. Goin there next weekend for R/R

268 Oldasdirt  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:21:09am

Off to next thread,"Obama's Founding Brothers" Going to be some good reading there.

269 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:21:36am

re: #256 Cap'n DOC

It's not shale, but sand.

That's true for the Alberta Tar Sands, but not so for the Green River Formation in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming. That's all hard rock shale.

270 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:21:48am

re: #244 Spenser (with an S)

What is called oil shale is actually a range. You have stull called oil sands and this is exactly as it sounds gunky sand. Then you can have all the way up to material that is just rock. For the oil sands there are a number of promising technologies like carbon dioxide flooding that force the oil out of the rock and into a pipe where it can be refined like normal. For the shales, you literally have to mine it like coal and then it is pulverized and then heated to drive off the oil. There are a number of experimental refinery extraction projects up and running. I am aware of one Shell has in Colorado. Estimates range but it is generally 30 to 50 dollars more a barrel to refine this material than regular crude. However when crude was 50 dollars a barrel that was a problem. At crude over $100 a barrel it becomes much more competetive.

271 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:22:23am
272 jwb7605  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:22:58am

re: #260 Lynn B.

They give credence to their Bible, jwb, not yours. And the Torah clearly indicates that the event will be impossible to miss. That's a central part of a 2000 year old debate.

It's not "mine" (either one). What part of the Torah indicates that? I don't study the Torah closely. I usually ask a Jewish friend (or two) about things.

273 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:23:06am

re: #263 Outrider

Ho Chi Mihns silhouette

thats it ,, the blue one ,, thanks

274 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:23:41am

re: #247 doppelganglander

1. Clear the field by any means necessary.
2. Run for touchdown.

275 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:23:56am

re: #265 Rancher

Uhm, what the hell did I just see?

Has the mystery been solved yet?

276 J.S.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:24:17am

Reuters is probably setting up "the public" (it's all in preparation) for Iran's bid to enter the United Nations Security Council...The antisemites can then point to this article to assure everyone that Iran's prez isn't an antisemite.

277 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:24:29am

Breaking: Bailout agreement reached.

278 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:24:30am
279 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:24:38am

re: #232 Oldasdirt

I remember hearing that it would not be profitable to use shale oil till the price went over 50$ a barrel.BINGO!

When I was in Texas in the 80s, I remember watching testimony regarding re-opening closed refineries. The CEOs stated it was economically unfeasible to reopen them until the price of gas went over $1.50 a gallon. To my knowledge, they still aren't reopened. I haven't had time to research the status of them lately.

280 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:25:11am

re: #243 jcm

This is the art installation at the garabage transfer station near my house.

It only cost $300,000.

It actually looks cool, it's just too bad taxpayer money was wasted on it. In Dallas, the city has an ordinance where all new city buildings (like fire stations) have to have some kind of "art" installed, using taxpayer bucks. There was a story on the local TV news last year about some that don't work or are defective, like the expensive kinetic sculpture at the new Jack Evans DPD headquarters (the late Evans was a head of the Tom Thumb grocery chain, then mayor, and was a big supporter of the police). The sculpture there doesn't work properly (computer software glitches), and the city spent somewhere near $500k on it.

281 Rancher  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:26:57am

re: #235 Lynn B.

And most of them actually live in Jerusalem (in the Mea She'arim neighborhood, I believe), so they aren't exactly promoting the physical destruction of the country. They just want to remove all traces of Jewish rule until the coming of the Messiah.

Ah, there will be no new Israel until the Messiah? Was this like the Orthodox Jews that opposed the creation of the current Jewish state?

282 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:27:09am

re: #276 J.S.

Reuters is probably setting up "the public" (it's all in preparation) for Iran's bid to enter the United Nations Security Council...The antisemites can then point to this article to assure everyone that Iran's prez isn't an antisemite.

If Iran gets on the Security Council, the US should throw the UN out of the country.
And for that matter, even if Iran doesn't get in the UNSC.

283 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:27:11am

re: #277 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Breaking: Bailout agreement reached.

Has the chosen one approved it?

284 Perplexed  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:27:59am

The oil companies are trying to build a refinery in eastern S. Dakota. Permits in place, voters want it for a multitude of reasons, and environmentalists want it shut down before construction even begins.

285 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:28:05am

re: #272 jwb7605

jwb, The Torah is a part of your (and my) Bible. Depending on who you're talking to, it's either the first 5 books of Moses or the whole of what we call Old Testament. Also, if you're referring to the "thief in the night" verse, I've always heard that meant no one has any idea when He's coming. IMO, Everyone will know the second He returns according to many verses. I'll look them up if you'd like.

286 Rancher  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:30:04am

Rush:

The Dems caved to make a deal so it would be done before Bush met with the candidates. They didn't want McCain to be credited.

I agree, as I almost do with Rush.

287 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:30:29am

re: #283 Outrider

Has the chosen one approved it?

He'll run by there, if they really need him.

/asshole

288 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:30:44am
289 J.S.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:31:43am

re: #282 Kosh's Shadow

You write, "If" -- now, that's funny...(as if there's any doubt that come next January, Iran will be on the Security Council...I figure it's pretty much a done deal...The problem is that if Hussein 0 becomes Prez he'll be wining and dining them...)

290 verbatim  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:37:41am

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

> This represents the sentiments of a great many of the Hasidim in
> this neighborhood, of whom the Satmars are the most numerous
> but only one of the several sects. They emphatically do not support
> the State of Israel.

No. They represent only a VERY SMALL number.

Even the Chassidim I know who don't appreciate the ideological or religious direction that the country is taking, would not speak out publicly like NK do. Those of us with common sense, understand that NK are just Useful Idiots and that their public pronouncements and demonstrations put in danger, not just Jews, but all those living in Israel.

291 Outrider  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:39:14am

re: #287 Ward Cleaver

He'll run by there, if they really need him.

/asshole

If I recall from Sen McCains speech yesterday, it would have to meet with his approval also. Why? Dunno. Seemed self defeating to me.

292 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:41:58am
293 ratso  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:45:05am

re: #285 Spenser (with an S)

jwb, The Torah is a part of your (and my) Bible. Depending on who you're talking to, it's either the first 5 books of Moses or the whole of what we call Old Testament. Also, if you're referring to the "thief in the night" verse, I've always heard that meant no one has any idea when He's coming. IMO, Everyone will know the second He returns according to many verses. I'll look them up if you'd like.


I'll know immediately it's HE, I will also know the imposter as quickly.

294 Lynn B.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:48:29am

re: #281 Rancher

Ah, there will be no new Israel until the Messiah? Was this like the Orthodox Jews that opposed the creation of the current Jewish state?

Yeah, exactly like.

295 Rancher  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:49:08am

re: #289 J.S.

Now that's just crazy! However, Iran will suddenly elevate itself in the world and will become the new third world champion. You saw the reaction he got in the UN. Bigger than Cuba. Bigger than Venezuela. Bigger than North Korea, especially with Kim Jong-il ill. Because he's a rogue he will be bigger than Putin, who has more nukes. Problem is everyone focuses on Dinnerjacket, who is not the Supreme Leader. Another problem is the new ME arms race as well as Hamas and Hizbullah maybe getting nukes. Because, mark my words, Iran is getting the bomb.

296 Lynn B.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:50:39am

re: #253 Kosh's Shadow

I don't think they'd be too happy about being under Muslim rule, no matter what they think.

So right. That's one of the most dumbfounding things about their whole outlook. They actually seem to believe life would be grand under Muslim rule. They think they have a lot in common.

297 LudwigVanQuixote  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:57:46am

I am generally against speaking ill of fellow Jews. These mamzarim are an exception.

For my non-Hebrew speaking fellow lizards:

Mamzer: n. a person who is the product of a forbidden union, like the child of brother and sister or the child of adultery.

298 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 10:59:45am
299 Lynn B.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:00:39am

re: #272 jwb7605

It's not "mine" (either one). What part of the Torah indicates that? I don't study the Torah closely. I usually ask a Jewish friend (or two) about things.

I was using Torah in the broadest sense, which includes the Talmud (or Oral Torah ... before it was written down). And I'm not a Talmudic scholar by any stretch, so all I know is the Messianic tradition I've always been taught, which is derived from both Biblical and Talmudic sources. That isn't to say that the Messiah may not be among us before he reveals himself, but the event the NK are waiting for is the restoration of the Kingdom and the Monarchy under the Davidic dynasty, the miraculous return of all the Jews to the Land of Israel and the rebuilding of the Temple. That would be pretty hard to miss.

300 Cap'n DOC  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:03:24am

re: #273 sattv4u2

I don't see anything but splashes.

301 Lynn B.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:06:47am

re: #298 buzzsawmonkey

I agree that it's consistent but still find it dumbfounding. In the discussions I've had with people of this or similar persuasions, they seem to have a very unrealistic expectation of what life would be like if Israel were to be defeated and taken over by today's jihadis. As you say, they anticipate that their life wouldn't change much because they intend to be good little dhimmis. I hope they never get the chance to find out.

302 jwb7605  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:13:57am

re: #299 Lynn B.

I was using Torah in the broadest sense, which includes the Talmud (or Oral Torah ... before it was written down). And I'm not a Talmudic scholar by any stretch, so all I know is the Messianic tradition I've always been taught, which is derived from both Biblical and Talmudic sources. That isn't to say that the Messiah may not be among us before he reveals himself, but the event the NK are waiting for is the restoration of the Kingdom and the Monarchy under the Davidic dynasty, the miraculous return of all the Jews to the Land of Israel and the rebuilding of the Temple. That would be pretty hard to miss.

You would not believe how close we are in that opinion.
I don't remember nic in a couple other threads where I got beat up on a lot.
Because I don't want to get beat up again (not due to you), this will be my last post in this thread.

303 revparadigm[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:16:55am
304 Joel  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:17:51am

re: #15 galloping granny

Who is it who owns Reuters again?

Thomson Corporation

305 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:18:41am
306 Joel  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:20:55am

I think someone set fire to a Netueri Karta synagogue in Monsey New York (Rockland County) awhile back. I was not sorry to read that.

307 Josephine  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:28:20am

re: #129 Eowyn2

New CBS comedy next Fall
"meet the Jews"

Premise:
The Jews - a wandering family of Jews travel from Muslim Land to Muslim Land and learn that we can "all get along" through the dry humor of the Muslim clergy and police.

That sounds like an episode of the CBC's "Little Mosque on the Prairie".

308 Josephine  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 11:34:24am

re: #135 Cap'n DOC

Are they Dead See scrolls?

/punny

The Dead Sea Scrolls will be coming to Toronto next year.

National Post

309 ciaospirit  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 12:00:41pm
nearly a dozen

What's the matter? Can't you count to ten?

310 Morganfrost  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 12:18:41pm

For an encore, Ahmagenocide can quell rumors that he's anti-Christian by meeting with Fred Phelps and his followers.

311 Achtung  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 12:31:08pm

Didn't the official Naturei Karta branch denounced Weiss after his first Ahmadinijad meeting?

312 Richard Romano  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 12:42:50pm

All you have to do is watch the Larry King interview -- Mamoud plainly states he will not dialogue with "Zionists," demonstrating the futility of Obama's overtures.

The guy is a madman -- he cares only for the destruction of Israel.

313 Alouette  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 12:51:42pm

re: #27 Nevergiveup

I don't remember the exact circumstances but a few years back or at least one, someone threw a punch at one of these crazy Neturei Karta Rabbis ( and I use the term rabbi loosely ). Anyone remember?

They were in Poland, at the tomb of one of the great Hasidic masters, Rabbi Elimelech of Lisenzk, where one of the NK moonbats received a righteous beatdown from Yehuda Meshizahav, the head of ZAKA. ZAKA is the group that cleans up after the terrorists strike.

314 Alouette  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:02:19pm

re: #176 jwb7605

I've never heard of anything (disclaimer again, I'm not Jewish), but I would note that this group only looks backwards to the Torah.
There's nothing wrong with studying "your book only", but it limits you to only looking in one direction.

These people give no credence to the Bible. If they did, they might still take their position based on this snippet from the Bible, repeated in Revelations.

They apparently believe that the arrival of the Messiah will be a flagrantly obvious event. The Bible clearly indicates that the event will be easy to miss.

Thessalonians and Revelation are not part of the Jewish scriptures.

315 Dayenu  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:09:27pm

re: #176 jwb7605

Actually, I'll tell you what little I know.

The Messiah in Judaism will be easy to know, because he'll rebuild the temple, bring UNIVERSAL PEACE and the entire world will know G-d from the LEAST to the GREATEST. This is a quick summary of some of the axioms by Isaiah I believe. Rabbi Tovia Singer (who's lectures on this subject are available online) summarizes it that way as well.

This is also why Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah. Universal peace? No. (And Jews understand to literally mean that there will be no war, not "inner peace in your heart" kinda stuff). Does everyone know G-d, from the least to the greatest? Admittedly, more understand G-d now; Maimonides theorized that Christianity and Islam were designed to spread the knowledge of G-d (albeit, not in 100% perfect fashion) across the map far more extensively than Judaism ever did. And finally, the second temple was still standing when Jesus was alive, so how could he rebuild it? He was not born in the messianic age, i.e. a time when the Messiah COULD appear. So, there you go.

Now the questions I have for the Nuturei Kharta or these people who say Zionism is opposed to Judaism is that Deuteronomy does say G-d will scatter the Jews to the four corners of the globe... but that he'll also gather in the exiles and return them to the land of Israel. I suppose you can wait for it to happen miraculously... beams of light, giant hands coming down from the sky, and so on. But G-d works through human agents. So who the heck are they to claim G-d may not be preparing for the coming of the messiah by gathering exiles to the land of Israel via the human agents of the Zionist pioneers? Does anyone have an answer to that? Who the hell are they to say the modern state of Israel is not part of G-d's plan?

316 J.S.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:33:28pm

re: #295 Rancher

hmmm...I have to ask "what's crazy?" An opening has come up in the Security Council (one of those rotating, non-permanent seats), and the opening is for a state in "Asia" (that, of course, includes Iran.) Iran's prez has submitted Iran's bid for that seat on the Security Council. The nations which vote on this issue are (in terms of a majority) pro-Islamic...so, what would stop Iran from gaining a seat on the Security Council? That's the reality...this United Nations are the same body which had Libya heading up "Human Rights." So, I figure it's quite conceivable, even probable...That's the prospect come January 2009-- and just in time for Barack Hussein's inauguration...(the world is f***d).

317 yochanan  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:50:55pm

re: #82 Defector01

Neutrei Karta are basically not Jews at this point - no group in Judaism accepts them as part of the faith or as anything but toys for anti-semities. They were removed decades ago; even a rudimentary search or question to any Jewish leader from any of the sects would have told Reuters that.

This article is covering fire to get people to accept that the Hitler of Iran is not really a Hitler. This is the first case of real anti-semitism i've seen with my own eyes from Reuters

naturi karta have been put in hariem thus are not considered jews anymore.

318 yochanan  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 1:54:09pm

re: #313 Alouette

the MEMBERS OF ZAKA are some of the most religious in Israel and G-D should give the a BROCKA for there work.

319 Perplexed  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 2:10:55pm

More information on ZAKA.

Looks like a group of pretty good people.

320 J.S.  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 2:11:59pm

re: #315 Dayenu

So who the heck are they to claim G-d may not be preparing for the coming of the messiah by gathering exiles to the land of Israel via the human agents of the Zionist pioneers?

hmmm...that's (i don't believe) the problem...the problem with the Ultra traditionalists is that they do not accept modernity -- or secular states...(do you get my drift here?) Israel was founded as a culturally Jewish state, not as a theocracy...

321 eaglewingz08  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 2:27:18pm

While I can understand theologically where the Naturei Karta come from, they portray great arrogance in conclusively asserting that the current State of Israel and the Jews return thereto, are not sanctioned by God, or cannot be in accordance with Torah prophecy. The fact that all prophecies have not yet been fulfilled, does not mean that current Israel should not be afforded the benefit of the doubt.
As for their sucking up to Iran, even were Israel not 'legitimate', to suck up to those who would murder millions of Jews is not anywhere to be found in the Torah, Old Testament or the Talmud. They are worse than the Kapos of concentration camps, who at least were under a life or death situation with no hope of escape, only death or collaboration. The fact that others did not collaborate does not make that choice any less heartbreaking. The Naturei Karta is under no such life or death compulsion.

322 Moe Katz  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 3:00:48pm

Apparently these Neturei Karta who collaborate with Nejad and his ilk are even branded as deviants by the main body of NK. Those NK are heretics, even within their own splinter group


Interesting article on Haredim and Zionism in general here: Most Haredim were of course anti-Zionist before 1948, whereas the Zionists were secularists. Now the shoe is somewhat on the other foot.

323 Ledger1  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 3:13:16pm

re: #14 EIDE_Interface

That’s a good analogy.

But, I think Charles has nailed it. Underneath the alfalfa and costume hat is a con-artist. This is load of taqiyya devised by Reuters and Dinnerjacket.

Iran wants to wipe Israel off of the map and will use every means to do so.

I am glad I don’t watch Reuters.

324 RayaMehemna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 5:31:53pm

re: #51 Outrider

Wiki is off by 4700, they are about "200 strong" and half of them suffer from severe mental illness!

325 RayaMehemna  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 5:40:37pm

re: #322 Moe Katz
The link you give is an ad in Hebrew that Israeli Goverment (Zionism) is bad blah blah blah....but condemns the condoning of Anti-Semites i.e. Ahmedinejad.
So even amongst the crazies of main stream Neturei Karta these guys are considered "way off" but to reuters.........

326 jsm  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 6:23:25pm

What is being missed is that Neuterei Karta WANT the messiah to come soon. That means a disasterkilling greater than any in the past.
WWIII would do nicely.
Hence the friendship with the nut-job.
JSM

327 Moe Katz  Thu, Sep 25, 2008 6:59:49pm

re: #325 RayaMehemna

The link you give is an ad in Hebrew

Yeah, but there's English in fine print at the bottom, so all can understand it.

328 Throbert McGee  Fri, Sep 26, 2008 6:04:11am
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A day after being accused of making anti-Semitic comments at the United Nations, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met a fringe group of ultra-religious Jews who seek the dismantling of the state of Israel.

Bleh -- even with the "fringe" qualifier, the lede graf is still (no doubt intentionally) misleading. Since, the prefix "ultra-" is itself suggestive of fringiness, some readers are going to assume that that the ultra-religiousness and the anti-Israelism are two different aspects of one fringe movement -- and from there it's a short step to "I heard somewhere that Israel's ultra-Orthodox Jews tend to be anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian."


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