this story is timing to unfold at a pretty cozy proximity with the elections.

This one has reeked from the beginning

Buzz up!

This story needs to be everywhere!

It just shows how big a tent 0bama has - why just the Terrorists for Obama group includes g-dless communists and virulent Islaofascists, all together!

Kurtz has been doing some great work, work that other journalists have been going out of their way to avoid.

re: #5 taxfreekiller

Obama is a head fake.

You mean a fake head?

re: #1 cliffster

this story is timing to unfold at a pretty cozy proximity with the elections.

Only because the worthless MSM has kept their head in the sand about anything critical to Obama. If they had done their job a year ago (or more), this wouldn't be an issue now (and Obama wouldn't be the Democrat candidate for POTUS)

You all must remember that Barack's core supporters see this association as a net positive.

re: #4 Dianna

This story needs to be everywhere!

Hope !

I think Kurtz is dribbling this story out in pieces, which is good. It keeps it in front of the public longer. It's a long, slow fuse, but once it blows, it will be amazing.

Obama's association with Ayres alone, nevermind the long list of human detritus he has hung close with, disqualifies him for any office in a decent country, much less the President of the greatest country that has ever existed. How low we have sunk, to consider Caligula a leader.

Hey, Charles - No hat tip for the Noam-ski? :)

Pweeeeeasssseee?

re: #12 doppelganglander

I think Kurtz is dribbling this story out in pieces, which is good. It keeps it in front of the public longer. It's a long, slow fuse, but once it blows, it will be amazing.

Yes, McCain prefers Obama simmered when he's eating him for dinner in November.

Obama grant being probed
$100,000 DEAL | State to charity: What happened to garden money, other cash?

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

On drudge...

And he's winning.

/apparently this is the change most of America wants

Remember the mantra that the MSM kept chanting about Watergate: "It's not just the crime, it's the cover-up."

Now the shoe is on the other foot and they are doing the covering up.

Great work, Kurtz. Keep it up.

How many Dems would be uncomfortable with this connection? The hard Left loves it. Die-hard party hacks will be unmoved.

What's the movable percentage? 10%? That would be enough.

So share this story with at least one of every ten Dems you know.

re: #14 Noam Chumpski

Hey, Charles - No hat tip for the Noam-ski? :)

Pweeeeeasssseee?

Good luck with that. I linked it in the dead thread early yesterday and I also put it in the link viewer. No love. :(

re: #17 Killian Bundy

And he's winning.

/apparently this is the change most of America wants

Yeah, I wish he would just come out and say, "Hey, I'm a crook and I associate with terrorists and fiends of all kinds... Oh, and I'm a Socialist!"

His ratings would go. through. the. roof. They'd call it, 'A new kind of honesty in politics.'

re: #15 cliffster

Yes, McCain prefers Obama simmered when he's eating him for dinner in November.

With fava beans and a nice Chianti? I'll bet Jill Greenberg has a picture of that.

What did Obama not know and when did he not know it?

re: #20 doppelganglander

Good luck with that. I linked it in the dead thread early yesterday and I also put it in the link viewer. No love. :(

Well, I sent the link to him shortly before Kurtz wrote it.

/wink

ATL meeting coming up this Oct 15th-ish.

Ot

House clears $25bn for carmakers

[Link: www.ft.com...]

Bullshit!

re: #24 Noam Chumpski

LoFlyer said the 12th, which is a Sunday. I am going to do my best to make it this time.

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

Ot

House clears $25bn for carmakers

[Link: www.ft.com...]

Bullshit!

What is that - a Hummer with all of the options?

Going after Murtha, Marine to sue.

Former Marine Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt, 24, of Canonsburg, will file a civil lawsuit against U.S. Rep. John P. Murtha, D-Johnstown, who was widely quoted two years ago saying that eight Marines carried out a cold-blooded killing of 24 civilians in the Iraqi town on Nov. 19, 2005.

re: #26 doppelganglander

Fantastic.

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

re: #14 Noam Chumpski

Hey, Charles - No hat tip for the Noam-ski? :)

Pweeeeeasssseee?

I don't deserve the credit, really. But thanks for the plea on my behalf.

Charles has been aware of this story for quite awhile, no doubt.

re: #31 Noam Sayin'

Are you stalking me

So this is what a "community organizer" does...

A $100,000 state grant for a botanic garden in Englewood that then-state Sen. Barack Obama awarded in 2001 to a group headed by a onetime campaign volunteer is now under investigation by the Illinois attorney general amid new questions, prompted by Chicago Sun-Times reports, about whether the money might have been misspent.

The garden was never built. And now state records obtained by the Sun-Times show $65,000 of the grant money went to the wife of Kenny B. Smith, the Obama 2000 congressional campaign volunteer who heads the Chicago Better Housing Association, which was in charge of the project for the blighted South Side neighborhood.

Smith wrote another $20,000 in grant-related checks to K.D. Contractors, a construction company that his wife, Karen D. Smith, created five months after work on the garden was supposed to have begun, records show. K.D. is no longer in business.

re: #28 celtic templar

Going after Murtha, Marine to sue.

Good! I hope that he makes Murtha poor.

re: #32 Noam Chumpski

Are you stalking me

I was here first.

Are you stalking me?

re: #22 doppelganglander

With fava beans and a nice Chianti? I'll bet Jill Greenberg has a picture of that.

It puts the lotion on the skin.

re: #27 Noam Chumpski

What is that - a Hummer with all of the options?

Perrsonally, I don't find anything funny about any of this. It's out of control.

The chairman of the Senate Banking Committee said House of Representatives and Senate negotiators have reached "fundamental agreement" on a set of principles guiding a Wall Street bailout bill.

re: #30 rawmuse

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

If Obama were a member of any of the military services he could not be a candidate for anything to do with anything nuclear anywhere in any service because of his admitted cocaine use. By law. And yet we might actually hand him the football and control of the nukes. . . . .

Demon-crats have many TV empires supporting them. "ABC,NBC,CBS,MSNBC,CNN".Why then does not some smart consevitive start a straight conservitive news agency? We have some raido,but TV would be even better.Besides,,looking at Lara Ingrim is allways pleaseing to my old eyes.

re: #32 Noam Chumpski

re: #35 Noam Sayin'

can you two go put your stockings on somewhere else !

re: #32 Noam Chumpski

Are you stalking me

This is freaking me out.

re: #35 Noam Sayin'

I was here first.

Are you stalking me?

I don't know; now I'm confused on who's stalking whom.

It's like we're chasing each other around the same city block... reminds me of Mad's "Spy vs Spy"

re: #28 celtic templar

Going after Murtha, Marine to sue.

"c-t" -

And 'twill be an interesting test of the "Speech and Debate" clause now.

-S-

re: #35 Noam Sayin'
HEY NOAM! I think everyone ought to stop stalking everyone else - though I know YOU'RE not a stalker!
/ducks and hobbles to cover!

re: #30 rawmuse

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

Excellent! What a fitting question for a 527 commercial.

I'm wondering, If Zero wins, with his associations, how the hell could he get a security clearance. He can be President, when he couldn't even pass the standards for county deputy in Arkansas?

re: #16 Noam Chumpski

Obama grant being probed
$100,000 DEAL | State to charity: What happened to garden money, other cash?

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

On drudge...

Obama: "One hundred thousand dollars? What one hundred thousand dollars?"

(turns out pockets)

re: #47 maddogg

I'm wondering, If Zero wins, with his associations, how the hell could he get a security clearance. He can be President, when he couldn't even pass the standards for county deputy in Arkansas?

Didn't they take Roosevelt off the "Magic" list?

Gallup has 'em tied again. Dang!

re: #45 realwest

HEY NOAM! I think everyone ought to stop stalking everyone else - though I know YOU'RE not a stalker!
/ducks and hobbles to cover!

You talking to me?

/lol

re: #38 Typicalwhitey

The chairman of the Senate Banking Committee said House of Representatives and Senate negotiators have reached "fundamental agreement" on a set of principles guiding a Wall Street bailout bill.

And I wonder if these members of the houses have been listening to the American public. Unless I have been reading thing wrong, it appears that a majority of the voters out there are not for this in any shape or form.

So, this is just going to happen with out paying any care to what the public is saying?

re: #49 Ward Cleaver

whats the problem it went to better homes. Obama and his supporters

re: #27 Noam Chumpski

What is that - a Hummer with all of the options?

It's a loan they have to pay back with intrest.

re: #11 Shug

Hope !

Change!

/let's all be dopes!

I hope debate format allows direct candidate to candidate questioning,,

re: #35 Noam Sayin'

I was here first.

Are you stalking me?

Are you two garden Noams or Travelocity Noams? Oh, wait...

Guilty verdict in Toronto terror trial

BRAMPTON, Ont. - An Ontario judge has found a young extremist guilty of a designated terrorist offence in a key test of federal laws.

While asked to pronounce on only one suspect, Mr. Justice John Sproat ruled that the evidence a wider terrorist group existed "is overwhelming."

"I am satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused by his participation and contribution intended to enhance the ability of the terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity.

"I therefore find the accused guilty as charged," the judge said in his 94-page ruling, as the young man's mother wept quietly in the back of the court.

Yes! Call me surprised, I was sure these creeps would walk.

re: #38 Typicalwhitey

The chairman of the Senate Banking Committee said House of Representatives and Senate negotiators have reached "fundamental agreement" on a set of principles guiding a Wall Street bailout bill.

He wants all this out of the way by tonight so his friend B0 can have his debate tomorrow?

If nothing else comes of McCain suspending the campaign .......we got The One saying .........JUST CALL ME. I think that will come back to bite him.

Dodd is on tv speaking. I am thinking his ass is probably pretty tight right now wondering when the FBI is coming over to his house.

Linky

I really hate to say this, but having read Stanley's article I still don't understand what the fuss is about.
We all know that Obama and Billy Ayers (and his ever so charming wife, Bernadine Dohrn) are good buddies.
What am I missing here that everyone else seems to think is a "blockbuster" disclosure issue?

re: #55 Honorary Yooper

It's a loan they have to pay back with intrest.

12% interest at that.

The government has the potential to make billions on this. Or lose some. But it won't be a full net loss. That's the plus side.

re: #61 yma o hyd

He wants all this out of the way by tonight so his friend B0 can have his debate tomorrow?

A debate the O will lose.
McCain won the day by going to Washington. The deal is done and Obama is not even there yet.

re: #64 realwest

I really hate to say this, but having read Stanley's article I still don't understand what the fuss is about.
We all know that Obama and Billy Ayers (and his ever so charming wife, Bernadine Dohrn) are good buddies.
What am I missing here that everyone else seems to think is a "blockbuster" disclosure issue?

The cover up of the fact!

re: #33 Kenneth

So this is what a "community organizer" does...

Sent to email list.
Thanks

re: #50 Nevergiveup

Didn't they take Roosevelt off the "Magic" list?

I wouldn't think so. Our most secret project was the Bomb, and he was fully aware of that.

re: #64 realwest

For me, it's not this one story, but the sum of them all.

I may say I'm not in the Klan, but if all of my friends are... well... it leads to conjecture into my true character. :)

re: #38 Typicalwhitey

We may be able to thank McCain for that one. Had he not shown up, it would still be mired. Donks are in no hurray to fix anything.

Hope people start paying attention to this.

I think there is a Pulitzer awaiting the intrepid reporter who can drill down through the BS to confirm that Ayers and Obama really met in the mid-1980s when The One was an undergraduate at Columbia and Ayers was a grad student getting his master's at a botique college in the same neighborhood. I'm also wanting to see confirmation the it was none other than Said who brought them together. I also want to learn more about the Saudi who bankrolled The One's education expenses.

The One was set up to a sleeper from his early teens.

re: #30 rawmuse

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

/don't forget his past drug use

re: #69 maddogg

I wouldn't think so. Our most secret project was the Bomb, and he was fully aware of that.

Well the "Magic" designation was for the broken Japaneses naval and diplomatic codes.

I didn't see his conclusions as totally definitive... But it's great reporting and I hope he keeps going, these guys seem like dirtbags, and I bet he'll find something even better.

re: #64 realwest

Well, let's put it this way. Everytime Kurtz or Federoso appear on the air to speak about this, the Obamatons to everything they can to shout them down. If there was nothing there, why to they do what they do to stop Kurtz from speaking?

re: #30 rawmuse

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

That and his admitted cocaine use. The latter would disqualify him from having anything to do with nuclear weapons, much less having his finger on the button.

If this debate comes off tomorrow the ratings will be through the roof. I think folks might just be paying attention.

re: #74 Killian Bundy

/don't forget his past drug use

That appears to be OK according to present standards. Clean for 3 years is in the query. I know, I just took it.

re: #61 yma o hyd
Hey yma o hyd! "He wants all this out of the way by tonight so his friend B0 can have his debate tomorrow?"
I don't imagine that's the case; all Dodd said were that they had agreed on "fundamentals" nothing more and that the bill would probably be drafted up in the next few days - hence McCain would want to be there to try to get a good or at least decent bill passed.
Besides, iirc, this Friday's debate is supposed to be about Foreign Policy - a debate McCain should win very, very easily.

re: #66 Typicalwhitey

A debate the O will lose.
McCain won the day by going to Washington. The deal is done and Obama is not even there yet.

Yeah - I was checking th clock just now - hasn't Pres.Bush ordered him to be there at 4 p.m.?

Seems McCain has scared the proverbila brown stuff out of Congress, just by going there ...

re: #65 Noam Chumpski

12% interest at that.

The government has the potential to make billions on this. Or lose some. But it won't be a full net loss. That's the plus side.

And it's been done before with success. Chrysler paid off their loan early in the early 1980s. They won, and the Fed won. I have a lot more faith in these loans than I do in what's going on with AIG and the investment banks.

re: #80 unrealizedviewpoint

If this debate comes off tomorrow the ratings will be through the roof. I think folks might just be paying attention.

McCain knows how to work it, don't he?

re: #72 unreconstructed rebel

We may be able to thank McCain for that one. Had he not shown up, it would still be mired. Donks are in no hurray to fix anything.

No "may" imo.
McCain forced this to move along, the donks didn't want him to be able to claim credit so they decided to work together with the R's.
McCain will bring the R vote as long as the oversight is in and the pork is out.

re: #79 Son of the Black Dog

That and his admitted cocaine use. The latter would disqualify him from having anything to do with nuclear weapons, much less having his finger on the button.

All I know is that because I had been in Israel alot, I had a hour grilling from DOD investigators before anyone offered me my Navy Commission. And if I had put down I had used cocaine, well I doubt I would be in the Navy today!

re: #68 newsjunkie_ky

(OT: how are you and you bestest friend doing?)

re: #64 realwest

I really hate to say this, but having read Stanley's article I still don't understand what the fuss is about.
We all know that Obama and Billy Ayers (and his ever so charming wife, Bernadine Dohrn) are good buddies.
What am I missing here that everyone else seems to think is a "blockbuster" disclosure issue?

Probably Obama's own statement that there are no ties between him and Ayers, that Ayers is "just some guy from the neighborhood." Quite some stretch, since the ties go back to the time that Obama met his wife while interning at the Chicago law firm (Sibley etc.) where Michelle was employed, as was (coincidentally) Bernadette Dohrn.

re: #84 ploome hineni

..what makes my head spin, the number of white people, who have done everything possible to advancee Obama

most of the people pulling strings, giving him cash, providing him with education and position are white people

and then he joins a sewer like Trinity Church, to stick it to whitey

so his bitter wife, can say NOW

for the first time in her worthless lifem she is proud of America?

/spit on all ot them

barack obama hates white people.

re: #67 Oldasdirt
The cover up of WHAT FACT? That Obama and Ayers are "tight"?! Is that some sort of secret?
Sorry, I just don't get it.

re: #83 yma o hyd

Yeah - I was checking th clock just now - hasn't Pres.Bush ordered him to be there at 4 p.m.?

Seems McCain has scared the proverbila brown stuff out of Congress, just by going there ...

Classic was:

McCain: I'm going to the office.
Obama: I'm not because I have my Blackberry.
Bush: Obama, get to the office.
Obama: Ok! Should I bring snacks?

THAT'S Presidential!

re: #86 cliffster

McCain knows how to work it, don't he?

They needed him in Washington to bring the GOP to the table. He delivered, and if he debates the junior senator from IL tomorrow night he'll be so far inside Obama's head Citizen 0 will be speechless.

re: #86 cliffster

McCain knows how to work it, don't he?

I'm really concerned that John gets proper rest prior.

re: #64 realwest

There are several things, but the biggies for me are these: Is Obama lying about when and where he became acquainted with Ayers, as well as the closeness of the relationship? Why would Ayers choose a newly minted, unknown lawyer to run his foundation -- or did someone else choose him? Just how much influence did Obama have over the way CAC funds were distributed? What was the true goal of Ayers' "reform" project? How did CAC run through tens of millions of dollars in just a few years without producing a single measurable improvement in education?

This is the only thing Obama has ever done that might be considered executive experience. Executive experience is usually considered important in a presidential candidate, yet Obama highlights his ridiculous community organizer job and downplays CAC. Why?

re: #12 doppelganglander

I think Kurtz is dribbling this story out in pieces, which is good. It keeps it in front of the public longer. It's a long, slow fuse, but once it blows, it will be amazing.

It appears that way only because there's so much material to go through and it takes time. There's thousands of documents to check through.

What should be eminently clear by now is that Obama and Ayers weren't merely two passing ships that happened to cross in the middle of the night. They were working in close proximity for years together, and questions really need to be asked of both what kind of relationship they really had. Obama and his media minions have tried to claim that it was only in passing or that what Ayers did happened when Obama was eight, as though to excuse the terrorist acts Ayers' group carried out.

It's also important to remember that academia has seen fit to bestow legitimacy on Ayers, the Chicago machine has no problems with Ayers, and there's no reason for the Democrats to think Ayers is anything but mainstream to them.

But seriously, why is McCain's eye drooping?

re: #37 Walter L. Newton

Perrsonally, I don't find anything funny about any of this. It's out of control.

I've read that something between one in 12 and one in 14 American jobs are either directly or indirectly connected to the domestic auto industry, and if they were to collapse, it would be very bad for the economy indeed. The $25b number is actually kinda low; I expected it would come in around $40b - $50b.

Just another thing to add to this growing list Mr. Obama:

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available"
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available"
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicagoscholarly articles -- None
13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"
14. Your Illinois State Senaterecords--"not available"

re: #98 Who Watches the Watchmen?

But seriously, why is McCain's eye drooping?

I saw that yesterday also. I was not thrilled to see that.

re: #44 Dr. Shalit

"c-t" -

And 'twill be an interesting test of the "Speech and Debate" clause now.

-S-

There is some precedent for this. Hutchinson v. Proxmire (1979) established that members became liable for their views as expressed through press releases or newsletters. The Court found that although these means of communication are valuable and desirable, neither forms an integral part of Congress's deliberative process.*

*The Oxford Companion to the Supreme court of the United States New York, 1992 page 807

Note: I received my legal training watching Law & Order reruns.

re: #79 Son of the Black Dog

That and his admitted cocaine use. The latter would disqualify him from having anything to do with nuclear weapons, much less having his finger on the button.

Yeah but he didn't snort the cocaine to get high, he just liked the way it smelled.

-- Ray Wiley Hubbard

re: #86 cliffster

McCain knows how to work it, don't he?

This is something that keeps biting the donks in the ass.
They do not understand that McCain is fighting a tactical war. Obama doesn't have a clue.

So now, it looks like McCain asked Obama to join him in Washington, Obama said no, McCain went and now a deal is done.

Not too hard to figure out that Obama got out maneuvered.
What a doofus....the old fighter pilot is running rings around him!

re: #88 Nevergiveup

All I know is that because I had been in Israel alot, I had a hour grilling from DOD investigators before anyone offered me my Navy Commission. And if I had put down I had used cocaine, well I doubt I would be in the Navy today!

Hell, my Son applied for a job as a policeman in Central Ark. They checked all of his records at school, interviewed him in my home, questioned ALL of my neighbors. Hell, you would have thought he was going CIA. I think they might have taken a dim view of associations with known terrorists and criminals.

re: #84 ploome hineni

The people of whom you speak, ignorant of history they are, guilt driven and thinking we owe the Blacks something; any possible has been paid by the sufferings of the Civil War; & the whites did not have to raise a finger then, but they did, to free their black brothers and sisters.

re: #38 Typicalwhitey

The chairman of the Senate Banking Committee said House of Representatives and Senate negotiators have reached "fundamental agreement" on a set of principles guiding a Wall Street bailout bill.

I wonder how much is in earmarks?

(The Robert C. Byrd _________ )

re: #77 Honorary Yooper
Maybe

Everytime Kurtz or Federoso appear on the air to speak about this, the Obamatons to everything they can to shout them down. If there was nothing there, why to they do what they do to stop Kurtz from speaking?

just reflexes? I honestly don't know, but I was unaware that Obama and Ayers relationship as friends was any kind of secret. Maybe I just read LGF too much!

re: #30 rawmuse

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

-------------------------
Definitely! In our army unit we had a couple of people who lost their crypto clearances because of a stupid "rendezvous" with anti-war activists behind closed doors. They told the guys to get screwed but since they couldn't prove it, their clearance got yanked. That, for a one time event.
Ft Hood - 1970 If I remember correctly the place was the "Tea Room" in Killeen The place was under surveillance.

re: #92 realwest

The cover up of WHAT FACT? That Obama and Ayers are "tight"?! Is that some sort of secret?
Sorry, I just don't get it.

Not that they are tight, but that Obama tries so desperately to shove the relationship under the rug. After all, just how many Americans would vote for a man whose admitted best buddie is the notorious Bill Ayers of bombing the Pentagon and stomping on the flag fame? The same Bill Ayers who rightly should still be in jail . . . . .

re: #95 unrealizedviewpoint

I'm really concerned that John gets proper rest prior.

Remember Bush in the first debate - he couldn't even complete a sentence. I don't think he'd slept in 5 days.

1 st question of the debate (if it happens friday)

"Senator Obama, do you think the prsence of Senator McCain was the contributing facto in getting the bailout deal done"

Obbie

"I'll get back to you on that one. Call me if you need me"

re: #89 yma o hyd

(OT: how are you and you bestest friend doing?)

Doing pretty good. Thanks for asking. Meggie looks so pitiful. She lost over a pound (only weighed 11). She has eaten a little (mom hand feeding). She had a pretty good night and looks better today. Vet visit tomorrow.
Thanks for the prayers and positive thoughts for my little fur baby.
{Lizards}

re: #17 Killian Bundy

And he's winning.

/apparently this is the change most of America wants

Don't be so convinced by the polls. They were wildly inaccurate in 2004, and I predict they're going to be wildly inaccurate again.

If you look at the "averages," it shows Obama up in various states, and barely up nationally. But if you look at individual polls, you'll see that something fishy is afoot.

The poll results usually say they have a +-3% "margin of error." But often, such as today, different polling organizations have wildly differing results taken in the same state at the same time.

In New Hampshire for example, half the polls say Obama is up +6. And half the polls say McCain in up +2. How could that possibly be? They "average out" to Obama +2, but I cry foul: something does not smell right here. Some of these polls must be biased.

You think that's bad? In Michigan, one recent poll was Obama +10; and another poll taken just one day apart has McCain +3. A 13-point spread? Absurd. Somebody is fudging the results somehow.

The same is true of many battleground state polls. And even the national polls: One group today has McCain up +2, and just yesterday ABC had Obama +9. An 11-point spread. Which can only mean one of the results is fraudulent.

To average the polls together just doesn't make sense, because I don't think they're all valid to begin with. If you take the class "average" answer to a math quiz, you're going to end up with the wrong answer, because only some people got it right.

In 2004, it turns out the polls were always slanted in favor of Kerry. I suspect the same thing is happening again. They're slanting them to make the Republicans "give up hope" on the theory that people will just vote for Obama so as to look like they "voted for the winning side."

It didn't work in 2004, and the psychology won't work this time either. If anything, slanted polls results will only serve to energize the Republicans to work harder.

re: #106 Ojoe

The people of whom you speak, ignorant of history they are, guilt driven and thinking we owe the Blacks something; any possible has been paid by the sufferings of the Civil War; & the whites did not have to raise a finger then, but they did, to free their black brothers and sisters.

Not to mention that the majority of Af. Ams currently in the US immigrated after the repeal of slavery. Go figure.

re: #92 realwest

The cover up of WHAT FACT? That Obama and Ayers are "tight"?! Is that some sort of secret?
Sorry, I just don't get it.

The fact that all records have been pulled and hiddin from public veiw.
Records of there meetings,(Times and Dates).Thats the cover up,,and just part of it.

re: #94 Who Watches the Watchmen?

They needed him in Washington to bring the GOP to the table. He delivered, and if he debates the junior senator from IL tomorrow night he'll be so far inside Obama's head Citizen 0 will be speechless.

I sincerely hope you're right.

In other news, Gov. Palin was in my neck of the woods in Lower Manhattan and missed her by a bit. She was touring the WTC Tribute Center, and answered some reporter questions. She also met with firefighters next door.

re: #64 realwest

I really hate to say this, but having read Stanley's article I still don't understand what the fuss is about.
We all know that Obama and Billy Ayers (and his ever so charming wife, Bernadine Dohrn) are good buddies.
What am I missing here that everyone else seems to think is a "blockbuster" disclosure issue?

re: #67 Oldasdirt

The cover up of the fact!

I think that's his point. The cover up of the fact isn't news.

Fox News report on the Fanny & Freddy collapse... details what Bush tried to do beginning in 2001, and what the Democrats did to stop it.

This is a smoking gun.

re: #109 right_on_target

If what you say is true, a 527 should definitely run with that one.

re: #92 realwest

Try this: Global Labor and Politics. This guy has been on the story for months and has an incredible depth of knowledge of Chicago machine politics. He's a lib but one of the good old-fashioned kind with integrity. Be prepared to spend some time -- it's a real eye-opener.

re: #101 Nevergiveup

I saw that yesterday also. I was not thrilled to see that.

I don't believe his eye is drooping.
I think he has a little tic in it.

re: #121 Kenneth

Fox News report on the Fanny & Freddy collapse... details what Bush tried to do beginning in 2001, and what the Democrats did to stop it.

This is a smoking gun.

Ammo for the debates!

/sorry for the pun

re: #73 Billy Hank

Hope people start paying attention to this.

I think there is a Pulitzer awaiting the intrepid reporter who can drill down through the BS to confirm that Ayers and Obama really met in the mid-1980s when The One was an undergraduate at Columbia and Ayers was a grad student getting his master's at a botique college in the same neighborhood. I'm also wanting to see confirmation the it was none other than Said who brought them together. I also want to learn more about the Saudi who bankrolled The One's education expenses.

The One was set up to a sleeper from his early teens.

The Meccachurian candidate

re: #82 realwest

Hey yma o hyd! "He wants all this out of the way by tonight so his friend B0 can have his debate tomorrow?"
I don't imagine that's the case; all Dodd said were that they had agreed on "fundamentals" nothing more and that the bill would probably be drafted up in the next few days - hence McCain would want to be there to try to get a good or at least decent bill passed.
Besides, iirc, this Friday's debate is supposed to be about Foreign Policy - a debate McCain should win very, very easily.

Hi rw!
I'm so glad you made it to the dentist and back all right! Hope he dealt with you kindly!

I was being a bit cheeky with my remark, I think there is still quite a bit to do and Pres.Bush is having a meeting at 4 p.m., iirc.

But its nice to imagine all the dems being rattled and trying to get out of the rain before McCain appears on the scene.

The debate will be no problem for McCain, you're right. Its not just the subject - its the fact that B0 apparently gave a ghastly performace today when he had teleprompter difficulties ... no teleprompter in a debate ...
B0 seems to be incapable to learn stuff by heart.

re: #114 zombie

Polls are bs

You can lie to a pollster

You cannot lie to a ballot

re: #114 zombie

You have to look at the internals. If they skew the sampling to favor Democrats, your polling outcome is nearly certain.

re: #110 galloping granny

Not that they are tight, but that Obama tries so desperately to shove the relationship under the rug. After all, just how many Americans would vote for a man whose admitted best buddie is the notorious Bill Ayers of bombing the Pentagon and stomping on the flag fame? The same Bill Ayers who rightly should still be in jail . . . . .

awe, now, you know barack was only 8 yrs old when ayers was bombing the pentagon and police stations all over the country.
/

re: #78 taxfreekiller
Hey TFK - why would they want to hide that?
I mean that seriously - so Obama and Ayers have been tight for a long time - so what?
Just the fact that Ayers and Obama were two of the three directors of the Annenberg challenge and that Ayers held a fund raiser or coffee klatch for Obama at Ayers Chicago mansion would seem to me to be proof enough that they have an enduring relationship.

re: #30 rawmuse

As Ayers wasn't a "group" or "organization", I doubt it. However, his drug use might have hurt (dependent on age/frequency).

Additionally, I don't recall what the rules are on international travel declarations prior to the age of 21 (or 18) - but his Indonesian and Pakistani travels would have slowed the package down quite a bit.

Personally, I would have pulled his ticket for the relationship with that Saudi lawyer who got him into Harvard Law. That would be a big flag.

re: #124 Typicalwhitey

I don't believe his eye is drooping.
I think he has a little tic in it.

I don't know. His eye looked a little red, so I hope it was just an infection and/or irritation. His eye lid was drooping to his left and ticing some.

re: #30 rawmuse

Are there any Lizards who are in government security service that could verify that, if Obama were not a candidate for President and just a regular civilian, he would not be able to get the most basic type of government security clearance precisely because of his associations with the likes of Mr. Ayers?

There were peeps in the Clinton administration that could never get a clearance. It would be interesting to see what would happen with Obama were he to win.

re: #130 nyc redneck

awe, now, you know barack was only 8 yrs old when ayers was bombing the pentagon and police stations all over the country.
/

All kool-aid provided free.

re: #64 realwest

The point is, it's documented.

re: #61 yma o hyd

He wants all this out of the way by tonight so his friend B0 can have his debate tomorrow?

Sure seems like a lot of trouble to go through to get your butt spanked in public. I mean, really. Foreign policy? Obama vs McCain? I can imagine Obama showing up at the event tomorrow night expecting no McCain and crowing about it only to see McCain strolling through the doors exactly on time with a silver platter in one hand and a very long, sharp knife in the other fully prepared to hand Obamas head over to the crowd. lol

re: #135 Ward Cleaver

There were peeps in the Clinton administration that could never get a clearance. It would be interesting to see what would happen with Obama were he to win.

It's academic. If elected, he's go it!

re: #123 doppelganglander

Try this: Global Labor and Politics. This guy has been on the story for months and has an incredible depth of knowledge of Chicago machine politics. He's a lib but one of the good old-fashioned kind with integrity. Be prepared to spend some time -- it's a real eye-opener.

Agreed. I thoroughly recommend the site for what he has to say about Ayres, Obama, and the Chicago Machine. I've lived a good bit of it myself (King Richard II Machine), but even he came up with a few things that suprised me.

re: #17 Killian Bundy

And he's winning.

/apparently this is the change most of America wants

Actually, Rush just said the daily Gallup tracking poll has it tied 46%-46%, which means in reality McCain is probably up by 10 points.

re: #64 realwest

I really hate to say this, but having read Stanley's article I still don't understand what the fuss is about.
We all know that Obama and Billy Ayers (and his ever so charming wife, Bernadine Dohrn) are good buddies.
What am I missing here that everyone else seems to think is a "blockbuster" disclosure issue?

It would mean that Ayers chose and groomed Obama to be what he is today. Ayer would be identified as the man behind the man and that doesn't paint a very nice picture for most mainstream Americans.

#130 nyc redneck

awe, now, you know barack was only 8 yrs old when ayers was bombing the pentagon and police stations all over the country.

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

re: #97 lawhawk

There's also the question with respect to how money was spent -- they recieved millions in "grants" -- so where did that money end up? in its designated destinations or somewhere else (as in someone's pocket?) such as to finance a political campaign?

Bill said call me Barack.

/

re: #143 ladycatnip

#130 nyc redneck

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

Depends on which time you're talking about... :)

I saw this on a previous thread and don't know who to credit but here it is.

What do Obama and Osama have in common.

Both have friends that have bombed the Pentagon.

re: #109 right_on_target

Modify my previous statement to include only "most basic security clearances" any special tickets; like crypto, and he would be toast. Actually, the recommending staff would have to answer judgment questions.

re: #134 revparadigm

MSM spinning this current bail out situation as a republican doing.

Everything I have read says the rescue is a smart move & could pay huge dividends against the national debt (maybe as much as 2.2 billion). George Soros to the contrary not withstanding.

re: #143 ladycatnip

#130 nyc redneck

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

I don't give a shit how old Obama was when Ayers was doing his thing. I never had Mengele over for brunch!

re: #90 galloping granny
Ah! Thanks for that galloping granny. I thought Obama had given up the ghost on that statement that Ayers is just some guy that Barry knew very casually when the story broke about the fundraiser/coffee klatch whatever that Ayers held in his Chicago Mansion ON BEHALF OF OBAMA.

re: #114 zombie

In New Hampshire for example, half the polls say Obama is up +6. And half the polls say McCain in up +2. How could that possibly be? They "average out" to Obama +2, but I cry foul: something does not smell right here. Some of these polls must be biased.

I live just across the New Hampshire border in VT and spend more than a little time over there. We regularly travel to the Dartmouth College area, Claremont and the sea coast - and I have been to all of those places at least twice in the last three weeks. I've noticed (and posted about it a couple of times) that there is a pretty big lack of visible support for Obama.

In fact, just yesterday I went over to Claremont to get the oil changed. When I was last there several weeks back two of the bigger houses on the way into town had huge Obama billboards on the front lawns - signs so big that in most areas they would have required a special permit if they were for a business. Yesterday those signs were both absent and one of them had been replaced with a Families for McCain sign.

Even near Dartmouth signage for Obama is mostly missing - I was there day before yesterday. No bumper stickers either.

New Hampshire is voting McCain - unless there is a whole lot of monkey business at the polls.

re: #143 ladycatnip

#130 nyc redneck

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

The next time someone uses that excuse I really hope that the other person says, well then it is ok to hang out with Charles Manson then based on that?
It is NEVER ok to hang around with a murderer/bomber/killer/fugitive from the FBI or whatever.
At least not in my world.

re: #143 ladycatnip

#130 nyc redneck

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

At the age his grandmother just started letting him play with matches?

This was a link posted yesterday (forgive me, i dont remember who posted the link) that pretty much explains, in easy to understand language, just what the problem on wall Street is.
Great info

OT - posted this in the spinoffs (hey, can we change the spinoff links to "Laverne & Shirley?") but I just had to post it here. From NRO: News Anchor Gets Hate Mail For Looking Like Sarah Palin.

BANGOR, Maine - A television news anchor in Maine who looks a lot like Sarah Palin says she's been getting "hate mail and nasty phone calls."

Cindy Michaels from WVII-TV has long brown hair that she sometimes wears up in a style similar to Palin's, and she also wears glasses on occasion.

Michaels says some viewers recently began accusing her of trying to copy Palin's style or, worse, somehow trying to subliminally sway votes.

The crazy just keeps on coming!

re: #113 newsjunkie_ky

I'm very very glad, for the both of you!
Will keep praying for the both of you - and Miss Dog sends wuffs and wags!

#138 Outrider

I can imagine Obama showing up at the event tomorrow night expecting no McCain and crowing about it only to see McCain strolling through the doors exactly on time with a silver platter in one hand and a very long, sharp knife in the other fully prepared to hand Obamas head over to the crowd. lol

You just might be on to something! Never thought about how crafty McCain was in leading the dems down the garden path with his choice of Palin. If he had let the cat out of the bag, you can be sure Hil would be on the ticket. So, it's possible this is another one-two-punch by McCain.

I sure hope so.

re: #141 Joe Six Pack

Rush is right. Check it here.

28-great. Thankfully some one fights back against that guy,Murtha

Maybe the facts they are trying to hide, was all the money was spent on uniforms for Michelle's boot camps they were trying to form. We saw her wearing one the other day in her video request for everyone to have a Debate Watch Party.

pathetic thugs they are

In real life: "unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers"

In Barack's administration: "secretary of defense Bill Ayers"

re: #143 ladycatnip

#130 nyc redneck

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

it looks like ayers has been stomping on and burning the american flag every yr. of obama's life up to and including the current one

re: #115 Noam Chumpski

Not to mention that the majority of Af. Ams currently in the US immigrated after the repeal of slavery. Go figure.

I don't think that's true.

re: #95 unrealizedviewpoint

I'm really concerned that John gets proper rest prior.

I agree..this is for the big prize, rest would be MOST important

re: #153 Typicalwhitey

The
next time someone uses that excuse I really hope that the other person
says, well then it is ok to hang out with Charles Manson then based on
that?
It is NEVER ok to hang around with a murderer/bomber/killer/fugitive from the FBI or whatever.
At least not in my world.

It would disqualify you from getting any government job - except President.

re: #153 Typicalwhitey

The next time someone uses that excuse I really hope that the other person says, well then it is ok to hang out with Charles Manson then based on that?
It is NEVER ok to hang around with a murderer/bomber/killer/fugitive from the FBI or whatever.
At least not in my world.

How old was Obama when this photo of Ayers standing on the flag was taken?

re: #159 unreconstructed rebel

Rush is right. Check it here.

Rush is almost always right. Just ask him (or me)! : )

re: #162 calvin coolidge

In real life: "unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers"

In Barack's administration: "secretary of defense Bill Ayers"

Please, I don't need anymore nightmares.

I hope this investigation continues after the election. Bush had chances to make things right regarding stuffy pants Sandy Burglar and they did not. Between the illegal bundling and various other activities of THE MANCHILD, it is going to be hard figure out which crime needs to be focused on first! I think the American people are tired of politicians being allowed to get away with everything.

re: #150 Nevergiveup

I don't give a shit how old Obama was when Ayers was doing his thing. I never had Mengele over for brunch!

bingo

On Rush Obama talking about Malaria in the village where his family lives. In huts. On dollars a month. Kids killed by mosquitoes that DDT could get rid of. Of course he only mentioned his village and Malaria, the rest I added.

/And Rush

Sounds like Kurtz is getting closer to "Who sent Obama?" Remember by the time he was picked up for the CAC board, he:

- got plucked off of the street to go to Harvard Law
- got picked up as Law Review President
- then returned to a small Chicago firm (after being President of the Harvard Law Review) ?

Somebody had some pull, the question is how much slack do they giver their little puppet in the White House.

Kurtz's hypothesis is cogent enough for me to say, if the principals listed do not present chapter and verse (with footnotes) denying it, then there is something very fishy indeed about Obama's path to his Presidential Candidacy.

As I said yesterday, I've been very leery of suggestions that Obama is some sort of "Manchurian Candidate", but things like Kurtz's revelations today (and the Timmerman article on Newsmax yesterday) are causing me to re-think that kneejerk.

Of course, Ayers and Obama knew each other, but this cover-up is sure as hell suggesting there's more to it than that.

re: #114 zombie

Thanks zombie. Let's say McCain is ahead. What are your thoughts on voter fraud?

re: #113 newsjunkie_ky

Been praying for you & the pup.

re: #111 cliffster

Remember Bush in the first debate - he couldn't even complete a sentence. I don't think he'd slept in 5 days.

Except this one "It's hard work, real hard work."

re: #142 BrianA

It would mean that Ayers chose and groomed Obama to be what he is today. Ayer would be identified as the man behind the man and that doesn't paint a very nice picture for most mainstream Americans.

I don't think it was Ayers. I think it was "Uncle Frank" Davis - a friend of his grandfather's, "close" to his mother - and a man who spent some time in Chicago and probably has ties to Ayers going way back.

re: #161 West Coast Freedom

Man that link is scary. 0bama jugend.

Rush:

Sept 1, Biden said Israel will just have to get used to a nuclear Iran.

WTF!?!

re: #100 Strike Hornet

Just another thing to add to this growing list Mr. Obama:

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available"
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available"
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicagoscholarly articles -- None
13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"
14. Your Illinois State Senaterecords--"not available"

Why should some of these be released? For example:6. Medical records -- Not released. 8. Law practice client list -- Not released. 9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released 13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"
We raised hell because the left was fighting for Gov Palins medical records. Are we hypocrites? I believe a client list should be private unless there is compelling reason to release specific information regarding specific names. Birth Certificate has already been done to death. The Certificate of Live Birth is sufficient. And record of Baptism? Please. There shouldn't even need to be a discussion of this one.

re: #113 newsjunkie_ky

{newsjunkie_ky}
hope meggie gets better soon.

re: #172 Rancher

Thanks for Rachel Corrie, The WHO estimates that 2.7 Million people die every year from Malaria. These countries are pleading for DDT now to be used in conjunction with nets and other abatement tactics but to no avail. We don't hear much in the developed world because Malaria is in medical history textbooks to us, but it's very real to them. The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.

Oby probably working on lines to get M'Cain mad. Tha way Oby looks all calm and M'cAin loses the election in one swell foop.

re: #128 Ojoe

Polls are bs

You can lie to a pollster

You cannot lie to a ballot

re: #129 lawhawk

You have to look at the internals. If they skew the sampling to favor Democrats, your polling outcome is nearly certain.

My theory is this:

The actual grunt-work of doing the polling is a very low-paying job. Either sitting in a room making repetitive calls, or walking door to door in dodgy neighborhoods -- that is not high-end work. Who would accept such a position? Not someone middle class or middle aged. Generally, I wager, college students make up the majority of people who do the actual on-the-ground polling, asking people the questions, writing down the answers.

College students (especially these days) are usually at their apex of left-wing thinking in their lives' political journey. People tend to get more conservative as they get older. And contemporary college students are almost all being brainwashed in leftist group-think. Some will later wise up or grow out of it, but while they're in college, they're in the thrall of their indoctrinating professors.

So, I posit that the vast majority of people actually doing the polling are themselves Obama supporters. Now, even if you grant that, say, 90% of them manage to stay honest, or not let some kind of expectation creep into their voice or attitude, that still leaves 10% who might consciously or unconsciously be slanting the results. And that's all it would take to screw up a poll.

I suspect that we are observing a "Hans the Clever Horse" phenomenon on a massive scale, and actually deriving supposed "information" from the results -- even though they merely reflect what the pollsters wanted to hear.

Rush just said: On Spetember 1st Biden said that "Israel is just going to have to live with a nuclear Iran".

WTF

re: #147 Rancher

I saw this on a previous thread and don't know who to credit but here it is.

What do Obama and Osama have in common.

Both have friends that have bombed the Pentagon.

We need that bumper sticker! Updinged AND recommended

re: #183 Spenser (with an S)

Thanks
for Rachel Corrie, The WHO estimates that 2.7 Million people die every
year from Malaria. These countries are pleading for DDT now to be used
in conjunction with nets and other abatement tactics but to no avail.
We don't hear much in the developed world because Malaria is in medical
history textbooks to us, but it's very real to them. The Law of
Unintended Consequences strikes again.

Rachel Carson, not Corrie. Both anti-Western nuts.

I understand that DDT is outlawed in America, but what's stopping these African countries from using it?

re: #154 Oldasdirt

At the age his grandmother just started letting him play with matches?

Actually, he would have been living in Indonesia as Barry Saetoro and attending muslim religious studies as part of his schooling at the time.

Media covering for Obama

The mainstream media have gone over the line and are now straight out propagandists for the Obama campaign. While they have been liberal and blinkered in their worldview for decades, in 2007-08 for the first time, the major media are consciously covering for one candidate for president and consciously knifing the other. This is no longer journalism — it is simply propaganda. (The American left-wing version of the Volkischer Beobachter cannot be far behind.) And as a result, we are less than seven weeks away from possibly electing a president who has not been thoroughly and even half way honestly presented to the country by our watchdogs — the press.

But worse than all the unfair and distorted reporting and image projecting, is the shocking gaps in Mr. Obama's life that are not reported at all. The major media simply has not reported on Mr. Obama's two years at Columbia University in New York, where, among other things, he lived a mere quarter mile from former terrorist Bill Ayers— after which they both ended up as neighbors and associates in Chicago. Mr. Obama denies more than a passing relationship with Mr. Ayers. Should the media be curious? In only two weeks the media has focused on all the colleges Mrs. Palin has attended, her husband's driving habits 20 years ago and the close criticism of Mrs. Palin's mayoral political opponents. But in two years they haven't bothered to see how close Mr. Obama was with the terrorist Ayers.

Nor have the media paid any serious attention to Mr. Obama's rise in Chicago politics — how did honest Obama rise in the famously sordid Chicago political machine with the full support of Boss Daley?

re: #185 zombie

Yes.

re: #188 buzzsawmonkey

Obama is the Shadow. He has acquired a secret ability to cloud men's--and women's--minds.

Racist!
/

re: #188 buzzsawmonkey

Just goes to show you where eight years of extreme BDS can take a person.

OT Think the subject of the Keating Five will come up in the debates? McCain was exonerated by the way.

re: #181 Outrider

If I'm correct, re: the medical records, there's a summarized version they usually give out which lets us know if the candidate is a ticking time-bomb, etc...

re: #164 doppelganglander

I don't think that's true.

Fifth paragraph down. I can go into the CDC and Census numbers as well, if you need me too. You're going to tie up my afternoon though. ;)

[Link: townhall.com...]

re: #170 freeus

I hope this investigation continues after the election. Bush had chances to make things right regarding stuffy pants Sandy Burglar and they did not. Between the illegal bundling and various other activities of THE MANCHILD, it is going to be hard figure out which crime needs to be focused on first! I think the American people are tired of politicians being allowed to get away with everything.

Where are the investigations into leaks by the State Department, the CIA, and the NSA?

Bush Justice Dept. sucks.

Also voter fraud? Pelosi and other violations of the Hatch Act? Including Obama in Iraq?

re: #174 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It's very uncomfortable for me, too. I don't believe in conspiracies, unless you're talking very small potatoes.

re: #114 zombie
Great post zombie - but I don't even THINK about the polls until the penultimate week of October and then, more often than not, they are still wrong.
But I also think you're correct about WHY the polls are so weird: to give the impression that Obama is ahead and to a) discourage Republicans, but, more importantly, to b) influence voters who truly haven't yet decided (i.e., everyone wants to vote for a winner).
I'd LOVE to see each campaign's internal polls!

BBIAW

re: #121 Kenneth

Fox News report on the Fanny & Freddy collapse... details what Bush tried to do beginning in 2001, and what the Democrats did to stop it.

This is a smoking gun.

Gun?
Thats a whole tank battalion!

But will the MSM report on it?

Naaa ...

Read this very carefully and soak up the implications:

Clever Hans

Clever Hans (in German, der Kluge Hans) was a horse that was claimed to have been able to perform arithmetic and other intellectual tasks.

After formal investigation in 1907, psychologist Oskar Pfungst demonstrated that the horse was not actually performing these mental tasks, but was watching the reaction of his human observers. Pfungst discovered this artifact in the research methodology, wherein the horse was responding directly to involuntary cues in the body language of the human trainer, who had the faculties to solve each problem. The trainer was entirely unaware that he was providing such cues.

In honour of Pfungst's study, the anomalous artifact has since been referred to as the Clever Hans effect and has continued to be important knowledge in the observer-expectancy effect

Contemporary polling is one vast demonstration of "The Clever Hans Effect."

re: #195 midwestgak

OT Think the subject of the Keating Five will come up in the debates? McCain was exonerated by the way.

I have heard some Obamatons trying that angle.

re: #157 yma o hyd

I'm very very glad, for the both of you!
Will keep praying for the both of you - and Miss Dog sends wuffs and wags!

Meg wags back to Miss Dog (who is gorgeous).

re: #189 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

EU and US production bans, effectively make it unavailable. Also a lot of EU aid is tied to environmental mandates. If you go look at the African debates on use of genetically modified seed corns (starlink corn) it is mentioned.

re: #186 oronpam

Rush just said: On Spetember 1st Biden said that "Israel is just going to have to live with a nuclear Iran".

WTF

Hello.. Mr. Biden, that's the problem, if you listen to Dinnerjacket's statements, Israel cannot live with a nuclear Iran.

I just looked it up and Ayers was stomping on the American flag in 2001.

So much for the "I was only 8 years old" bs.

re: #161 West Coast Freedom
Thanks for that link,I had the feeling that she did not like our democracy.
I was worried she might hold ill feelings about some Ameicans.But now i see it's MOST Americans.

re: #181 Outrider

Why should some of these be released? For example:6. Medical records -- Not released. 8. Law practice client list -- Not released. 9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released 13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"
We raised hell because the left was fighting for Gov Palins medical records. Are we hypocrites? I believe a client list should be private unless there is compelling reason to release specific information regarding specific names. Birth Certificate has already been done to death. The Certificate of Live Birth is sufficient. And record of Baptism? Please. There shouldn't even need to be a discussion of this one.

We raised hell about the left demanding Palin's child's medical records. No candidate has ever been asked to prove the parentage of their children - EVER.

Most of the things on this list do have some bearing on things like Obama's legal status as an American citizen, conflict of interests/special interests that might exist with some of his former clients, and fitness to serve (medical records.) These are ALL things that the vast majority of presidential candidates do expose, right along with their income tax records.

re: #189 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

re: #183 Spenser (with an S)

Thanks
for Rachel Corrie, The WHO estimates that 2.7 Million people die every
year from Malaria. These countries are pleading for DDT now to be used
in conjunction with nets and other abatement tactics but to no avail.
We don't hear much in the developed world because Malaria is in medical
history textbooks to us, but it's very real to them. The Law of
Unintended Consequences strikes again.

Rachel Carson, not Corrie. Both anti-Western nuts.

I understand that DDT is outlawed in America, but what's stopping these African countries from using it?

Oops, I blame the site I'm on for that confusion. As I understand it, it has to do with aid packages tied to our enlightened way of thinking "sure, we got rid of it using these tactics, but now we know better and you're screwed" and liability on those companies who don't even manufacture it anymore.

re: #185 zombie
Years back I had to go to one of the local offices of a nationally affiliated pollster. Yep, all kids, most still in school, working in a cubicle farm and talking from scripts. One adult acting as task master for the floor.

re: #188 buzzsawmonkey

Shadows? Naw... they're more sophisticated than that.

re: #189 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Rachel Carson, not Corrie. Both anti-Western nuts.

I understand that DDT is outlawed in America, but what's stopping these African countries from using it?

It is not just outlawed in America, it was banned by international treaty from use anywhere. Too bad too. The reason that we no longer have malaria in the US is because of the use of DDT to wipe out mosquitoes.

re: #175 midwestgak

Thanks zombie. Let's say McCain is ahead. What are your thoughts on voter fraud?

I'm not saying McCain is necessarily ahead. I'm just saying that we can't trust the polls. We simply don't really know how anyone is going to vote.

As for voter fraud -- that's an entirely different subject, one which I know little about!

Good video of interview with Kurtz about Obama & Ayers

re: #176 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Been praying for you & the pup.

Thanks, it helped.

re: #203 zombie

Q: Do you support a totally sweet guy who will be a bad ass president and everyone loves him, or do you support an old crotchety jackass who likes to kill people?

It's great to see Fox News is covering this story, but the sad fact is 99% of the people on the liberal side of the political spectrum will absolutely refuse to listen to the story. They have been thoroughly conditioned to detest Fox News and all their works.

re: #149 unreconstructed rebel

Everything I have read says the rescue is a smart move & could pay huge dividends against the national debt (maybe as much as 2.2 billion). George Soros to the contrary not withstanding.

Warren Buffet was for it - Soros can go and play with the traffic!
(I hope Soros lost a huge bundle in all this!)

(Sorry, am feeling very vindictive about S.!)

Interesting news:

MURTHA SUED!... Innocent Haditha Marine Files Slander Charges Against Outspoken Democra

Not sure but I think O'Rielly is having a breakdown.

re: #188 buzzsawmonkey

Obama is the Shadow. He has acquired a secret ability to cloud men's--and women's--minds.

he's like the drifter who comes to town one day,
nobody knows anything abt. him.
which adds to his allure.
he slowly insinuates himself to the gullible public, promising to make it rain or push back the sea.
deliver them from their trials and tribulations .
usually the old fashioned snake oil salesman takes the money and runs.
but obama is seeking power over everyone. he won't be going away.

isn't it stunning that people still fall for this scam?

re: #197 Noam Chumpski

Fifth paragraph down. I can go into the CDC and Census numbers as well, if you need me too. You're going to tie up my afternoon though. ;)

[Link: townhall.com...]

I don't want you to waste your day (as I am presently wasting mine). Medved says:

Some three million black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean arrived since 1980 alone and in big cities like New York, Boston and Miami close to half of the African-American population consists of immigrants, their children or grandchildren

That really doesn't tell you anything about the percentage of immigrants and their descendants nationally. I don't have time to research it right now, either, so let's just leave it an open question for now, unless someone else wants to take it up.

re: #149 unreconstructed rebel

Everything I have read says the rescue is a smart move & could pay huge dividends against the national debt (maybe as much as 2.2 billion). George Soros to the contrary not withstanding.

Yep.

re: #214 galloping granny

I'm not saying you are in error, but I still have a lot of mosquitos here: Do you mean that the DDT 'eliminated the mosquitos that carried the malaria?' That the malarial carrying mosquitos were eliminated?

I'm not sure how that would be possible without killing them all... God, if we could just kill them all...

But like I wrote; I could be wrong in my thinking.

re: #182 nyc redneck
Thanks. If I only have her for a little time more, as long as she is not in pain, I will treasure that time. She is so good to me and for me.

#150 Nevergiveup

I don't give a shit how old Obama was when Ayers was doing his thing. I never had Mengele over for brunch!

Would love for McCain/Palin to use this quote - it's perfect.

re: #218 cliffster

Q: Do you support a totally sweet guy who will be a bad ass president and everyone loves him, or do you support an old crotchety jackass who likes to kill people?

I support a sweet but crothchety old guy who will be a badass president that everyone loves - John McCain.

re: #220 yma o hyd

Of course, I was only off by 3 orders of magnitude. That should have been 2.2 trillion

re: #224 doppelganglander

I'm cool with that. :)

Just an aside :McCartney's concert kicks off in TA

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

NRO had a good take on Obama. They said he would make a great press sec'y. Sharp looking and articulate (although I cringe with the work "articulate"). Good speaker. Can communicate a point across and have people want to believe him.

Maybe not so good an executive leader.

They said this is what may have drawn Aryes to him. The terrorist found someone he could use to sell his projects.

re: #210 galloping granny

We raised hell about the left demanding Palin's child's medical records. No candidate has ever been asked to prove the parentage of their children - EVER.

Most of the things on this list do have some bearing on things like Obama's legal status as an American citizen, conflict of interests/special interests that might exist with some of his former clients, and fitness to serve (medical records.) These are ALL things that the vast majority of presidential candidates do expose, right along with their income tax records.

I grant these items would have a bearing on various aspects of his life. I just disagree they should be provided. Although not Obama specifically, I can imagine there would be clients on an attorneys list that have absolutely nothing to do with any election that would still find themselves involved in the media merely because they are on the client list.

And Baptismal record? This proves what?

re: #222 JacksonTn

Not sure but I think O'Rielly is having a breakdown.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Passionate!

re: #226 Noam Chumpski

I'm not saying you are in error, but I still have a lot of mosquitos here: Do you mean that the DDT 'eliminated the mosquitos that carried the malaria?' That the malarial carrying mosquitos were eliminated?

I'm not sure how that would be possible without killing them all... God, if we could just kill them all...

But like I wrote; I could be wrong in my thinking.

You haven't seen from mosquitoes, trust me. Yes, I mean that the malaria carrying mosquitoes in the US were all killed off by DDT. Right up until the time DDT was banned in the 60s virtually every community in America sprayed annually for mosquitoes. As a result, malaria & yellow fever, once common here especially in the South, have disappeared from our shores.

DONE DEAL

Bill goes to Paulson.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

re: #227 newsjunkie_ky

Thanks. If I only have her for a little time more, as long as she is not in pain, I will treasure that time. She is so good to me and for me.

i know what you are talking abt. i love my big boy like that.

re: #143 ladycatnip

#130 nyc redneck

Wonder how old O was when Ayers burned the American flag?

I think Ayers still burns them. Maybe when he and 0 go sneak a cigarette.

Talk about talking points! Maxine Waters on Rush using the exact same words that I overheard a woman on the train saying last night - "I don't blame Fannie & Freddie for doing their jobs." There must be a mass email for DU subscribers to this effect.

re: #185 zombie

Having worked for a marketing survey firm, your image fits.

The great thing is, it's a fill-in-the-corners job in the afternoons and evenings. When you're working and going to school, it's easy work.

re: #236 galloping granny

I wish that they would crop dust up to 400 miles inward and kill them all.

re: #185 zombie

anyone know just how "off" the polls were in 2004 when the final bell rang?

curious to know.....

re: #238 nyc redneck

i know what you are talking abt. i love my big boy like that.

*looking at ball of fur curled up at my feet* Yeah, me too...

re: #234 Outrider

I grant these items would have a bearing on various aspects of his life. I just disagree they should be provided. Although not Obama specifically, I can imagine there would be clients on an attorneys list that have absolutely nothing to do with any election that would still find themselves involved in the media merely because they are on the client list.

And Baptismal record? This proves what?

I have no idea why baptismal record is on the list. I do, however, feel that most of these items should be provided. The man is applying for a job as the single most powerful human being in the world. The public that is hiring him has the right to know almost anything about him - including everything on the list - except perhaps that baptismal record.

re: #228 ladycatnip

#150 Nevergiveup

I don't give a shit how old Obama was when Ayers was doing his thing. I never had Mengele over for brunch!

Would love for McCain/Palin to use this quote - it's perfect.

3/4's of the viewers would say, who? who's Mengele?

re: #222 JacksonTn

Not sure but I think O'Rielly is having a breakdown.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

hum . . . he was screeching the word 'toad'.

re: #233 Dave the.....

NRO had a good take on Obama. They said he would make a great press sec'y.

Actually, I disagree with even that. As press secretary, you don't get a teleprompter. He'd be a good spokesman, not press secretary.

re: #216 Kenneth

Good video of interview with Kurtz about Obama & Ayers

You are on fire today.
Thanks for all the links.

re: #241 Dianna

Having worked for a marketing survey firm, your image fits.

The great thing is, it's a fill-in-the-corners job in the afternoons and evenings. When you're working and going to school, it's easy work.

Good afternoon, Dianna. Did you get some sleep?

File this under: Well actually I'm not sure?

A couple in South Africa who were having sex on a railway track in Mpumalanga Province have been killed by a goods train, police say.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

re: #242 Noam Chumpski

Bigel!

re: #246 unrealizedviewpoint

3/4's of the viewers would say, who? who's Mengele?

Sad but true.

re: #242 Noam Chumpski

I wish that they would crop dust up to 400 miles inward and kill them all.

They used to. If you've ever read the Little House books, Laura Ingalls and her family all had malaria back about 1880 or so in the midwest.

re: #191 Kenneth

Media covering for Obama

From that link:

The major media simply has not reported on Mr. Obama's two years at Columbia University in New York, where, among other things, he lived a mere quarter mile from former terrorist Bill Ayers— after which they both ended up as neighbors and associates in Chicago.

Whaaaa?

Anybody able to dig up confirmation of this?

Thats not just a smoking gun - thats the artillery!

re: #203 zombie

It's still an amazingly clever horse, though. And he must have been terribly fond of his owner.

I know that's irrelevant. I've always been a huge fan of Clever Hans, even if he couldn't do math.

re: #233 Dave the.....

NRO had a good take on Obama. They said he would make a great press sec'y. Sharp looking and articulate (although I cringe with the work "articulate"). Good speaker. Can communicate a point across and have people want to believe him.

Maybe not so good an executive leader.

They said this is what may have drawn Ayers to him. The terrorist found someone he could use to sell his projects.

No more calls, folks, we have a winner! Obama was an empty suit just waiting for someone to put a hand up his back and move his mouth.

Well y'all it's been fun but I gotta go try to eat some lunch.
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you down the road!