Can we make that a 'hell nay!'?

Next payday is going to be interesting.

I'm not sure how to feel about this.

Hold on to your hats.... this changes the election big time, and makes the debates even more important.

Maybe not nice of me, but I'm glad it failed -- especially with quite a bit of Dem help!

this is why i havent checked my mutual funds in 2 weeks

They have to pass a bill today or the MSM is going to blame the Republicans and McCain will plunge in the polls. House Republicans, we're getting ready for Jimmy Carter part II. Don't kill yourselves!

alhamdullalah!

re: #3 They Call Him Boss

I'm not sure how to feel about this.

Me neither. I wonder what it was that House members didn't like about it?

I bet 0bama's really glad he took credit for the fix now.

Thats...really surprising. I thought Botox and her minions had enough solely on dems and RINOs to make it pass...

Maybe someone whould call Barak?

/sarc

I don't normally applaud failure, but in this case, I do. That bill was pretty damn scary.

re: #9 Ward Cleaver

Me neither. I wonder what it was that House members didn't like about it?

Here is a taste:

"Republican Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leading conservative, said the bill puts the country "on the slippery slope to socialism. If you lose your ability to fail, soon you will lose your ability to succeed.'"

yes!

what was the vote split?

The bailout bill did not pass the House

/it's not over until they close the vote, they're not done arm twisting

Happy for now.....but very skeptical of what Pelosi has up her sleeve next.

I bet the Republicans have handed the election to Obama on this one. They will be seen as the spoilers. "Let the markets work it out!"

/Right. The markets are who? God?

Public is to pissed to thnk straight just now. Too bad that the stupid MSM are fanning the flames.

Repost:
How will this be spun? Obama demands "Change?" or McCain runs against Congress? If McCain was keeping the gloves on and not "naming names" about Franks, Raines, Obama etc. then now is the time to take them off and go to town. Hope he can get Hillary and her horde to flip. This is the last lap/ Exciting isn't it?

It failed by 10 or 11 votes with 94 Democrats voting against it. According to CNBC, it's all the Republicans fault.

yea for the nays!

The had a taste of the shi- sandwich and spit it out.

But they'll twist enough arms to change their votes.

re: #21 lifeofthemind

Repost:
How will this be spun? Obama demands "Change?" or McCain runs against Congress? If McCain was keeping the gloves on and not "naming names" about Franks, Raines, Obama etc. then now is the time to take them off and go to town. Hope he can get Hillary and her horde to flip. This is the last lap/ Exciting isn't it?

Sorry- how can this be used against McCain- he's not in the House, he's in the Senate.

re: #17 Killian Bundy

Throw the House GOP more insurance if that's what they want. Boehner and co. need to wrap this one up!

The THOMAS site is going very slow.

Apparently Pelosi is in the process of trying to browbeat 11 members into changing their votes.

I think Charles beat the wire services with this headline.

Having read the whole thing, I am not surprised that it failed. Check out pages 83-87.

Cobbling this monster together Igor dropped the first brain and had to grab one from some guy named Abbie, Abbie Normal.

re: #16 Viking6

what was the vote split?

As of right now:

Democrats: Yea 141 Nay 94
Republicans: Yea 66 Nay 132

Totals: Yea 207 Nay 226

But stay tuned for the arm twisting.

OK, not fully understanding Wall Street, what happens if this passes? What happens if this fails?

Well, unless they work something out today and soon today, I fear for all the small to mid-size businesses who won't be able to access their credit lines and to all of their employee's who won't be receiving a paycheck.
Congress will, of course, continue to be paid.

re: #25 Sharmuta

Sorry- how can this be used against McCain- he's not in the House, he's in the Senate.

Silly you, when has a fact like that slowed them down?

35 days until the election. I don't know if that's enough time, especially if Sarah does poorly in the debate.

re: #32 freedombilly

You know that is coming. Just maybe someone on the other side will grow a pair

/sarc off

I had a 10-second candlestick chart up tracking $ against the euro, it was a hell of a ride when the vote was happening

So, if Barry hijacked credit for the bill, and the bill failed.....

re: #28 Honorary Yooper

Apparently Pelosi is in the process of trying to browbeat 11 members into changing their votes.

For once, I hope she succeeds. This isn't a good bill, but it's failure would be nothing short of apocalyptic.

re: #29 Dar ul Harb

I think Charles beat the wire services with this headline.

Yeah, ABC national news still has them voting.

re: #33 Honorary Yooper

Short term the Dow was down 615 points at one point about 15 minutes ago. It is now down 469 and fluctuating like mad.

If McCain can expose Obama's role and his ideological role in this it could help him mucho.

So now this is turning into the EU where you keep voting until you come up with the right answer?

re: #17 Killian Bundy

/it's not over until they close the vote, they're not done arm twisting

The whips will get busy, that's what they're for

re: #29 Dar ul Harb

I think Charles beat the wire services with this headline.

It ain't on FNC yet.

Charles, are you watching CSPAN?

Hey, what's that light up ahead?

*CHOO!-CHOO!*

re: #44 freedombilly

Short term the Dow was down 615 points at one point about 15 minutes ago. It is now down 469 and fluctuating like mad.

OK, what does it mean in real life, laymans terms?

re: #32 freedombilly

As of right now:

Democrats: Yea 141 Nay 94
Republicans: Yea 66 Nay 132

Totals: Yea 207 Nay 226

But stay tuned for the arm twisting.

Does Pelosi think they can twist 20 arms and convince the dems to give up their chances of reelection?

Next up. Israel and/or the U.S. attack Iran, the price of oil skyrockets,
and the "fun" really begins. Yikes.

re: #9 Ward Cleaver

Me neither. I wonder what it was that House members didn't like about it?

Not enough pork in it for them or ACORN. The ones that voted it down probably had their pork stripped out.

re: #46 lifeofthemind

Sounds more like vote counting in Washington state.

Went to CSPAN's Web site, got this message:

Server is too busy

Server meltdown!

re: #34 taxfreekiller
My friend - please see my #35 and remind me of why this bill's defeat is such a good thing.

re: #48 Ward Cleaver

It ain't on FNC yet.

Charles, are you watching CSPAN?

If he's not, I am. Pelosi is just siting there talking to someone. She clearly doesn't think it's over just yet.

This is yet another argument for buying and holding solid stocks with good fundamentals for the long-term.

For the day traders, this is a time to either panic, avoid the market, or figuring out what to short. For the long-term investor, this is more of a footnote that will make a good story later on ("Remember back in 2008 when that bailout bill didn't make it out of the house?").

Thank you House Republicans! You are the last vestige of free-market capitalism in this nation.

Thank you for not selling our country down the river when the "wiser" heads were running around in blind fear and panic.

Thank you for keeping your heads while all about you were losing theirs and blaming it on you (to borrow from Kipling).

I don't think they have formally announced the vote yet -- members can change their vote until voting is declared closed.

Its weird that this bill is desired by the leadership of both parties, but its failing. How often does that happen.

Here's a novel idea, why not craft a bill where the cure not worse than the disease?

re: #51 Honorary Yooper
Please see my #35

re: #54 kansas

Not enough pork in it for them or ACORN. The ones that voted it down probably had their pork stripped out.

Well, we can check the record to see which ones voted against it. There are some house members who are very much into ACORN.

Corrected the post to note that the vote is still open - "0:00 time remaining" apparently doesn't really mean "0:00 time remaining".

re: #62 rawmuse

Here's a novel idea, why not craft a bill where the cure not worse than the disease?

That's just crazy talk.

/

This crap with the mortgages has been going on for a long time. Why now this blow up. Where is George Soros? This plays right into the hands of Obama. I know ...... tinfoil hat but the timing is crazy.

re: #33 Honorary Yooper

OK, not fully understanding Wall Street, what happens if this passes? What happens if this fails?

Curious about that myself. I'm inclined to let the market work it out and let bad business decisions fall upon the companies that made them.

But, everything is so intertwined and convoluted nowadays, I'm not sure what the long term impact is.

re: #52 loppyd

Does Pelosi think they can twist 20 arms and convince the dems to give up their chances of reelection?

Actually, she'd only need to twist 10 arms, as more than 217 would make a majority.

I don't mind a deal getting done, as long as it doesn't give any money to the Alinskyites.

re: #64 Honorary Yooper

Well, we can check the record to see which ones voted against it. There are some house members who are very much into ACORN.

Bet Maxine Waters is waiting to change her vote.

re: #45 bosforus

If McCain can expose Obama's role and his ideological role in this it could help him mucho.

It'd be nice if he did put his dentures back in and go after the One. If he'd just "picture" Mitt, it'd all be over in a flash.

Who is the crackpot who still hasn't voted yay or nay?

Last ten minutes nay votes have fluctuated from 228 to 226 to 227. Lots of wheeling and dealing going on.

re: #30 stanlef

Having read the whole thing, I am not surprised that it failed. Check out pages 83-87.

What's the gist of it? Tried to read it and my eyes immediately crossed.

What to make of this? I kinda feel like Eddie Murphy in an old SNL skit when he was interviewing Ron Howard about his film Night Shift: "You made a movie about pimps & there ain't no brothers in it? I don't know whether to shake your hand or punch you in the mouth."

Just saw another 'yea' vote change to 'nay'. And another.

Now it's 205-228.

re: #71 Ward Cleaver

I don't mind a deal getting done, as long as it doesn't give any money to the Alinskyites.

Well that pretty much kills any bill, Ward.

re: #66 Charles

Corrected the post to note that the vote is still open - "0:00 time remaining" apparently doesn't really mean "0:00 time remaining".

Twist those arms!

/owwwwww!

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

For once, I hope she succeeds. This isn't a good bill, but it's failure would be nothing short of apocalyptic.

Would it? Not being sarcastic or wise ass, but would it?

I hope it keeps right on failing! This is an abomination.

re: #52 loppyd

Does Pelosi think they can twist 20 arms and convince the dems to give up their chances of reelection?

I hope not but they only need 217 votes to pass the bill. 10 arms is a lot to twist but much more reasonable than 20. They are also dealing with the deadline of Rosh Hashanah looming at sunset.

Actually, 20 arms would be 10 people, and 10 arms, 5 people.

How many individual arms, without twisting two arms of one person, need to be twisted?

re: #68 JacksonTn

This crap with the mortgages has been going on for a long time. Why now this blow up. Where is George Soros? This plays right into the hands of Obama. I know ...... tinfoil hat but the timing is crazy.

I have been wondering the same thing. McCain had Oflama on the ropes & then Wall Street runs out of cash.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue.

re: #78 Charles

Just saw another 'yea' vote change to 'nay'. And another.

Now it's 205-228.

Oh jeez! LOL!

re: #47 SpartanWoman

Fortunately, we've seen just how ineffectual and incompetent Pelosi (the Mary Kay School of Cosmetology, SF Campus drop out) is at leading the Dems. The chickenshits won't make a move if the Republicans don't go along, they are too scared of taking responsibility for their own choices.

Congress to Wallstreet: Drop Dead

re: #66 Charles

Corrected the post to note that the vote is still open - "0:00 time remaining" apparently doesn't really mean "0:00 time remaining".

Counting the hanging chads perhaps.

Oooh, a little power struggle going on here about a motion to reconsider.

re: #81 Outrider

Would it? Not being sarcastic or wise ass, but would it?

I don't know. You got any money in a 410 K that's just going to hell right now?

re: #66 Charles

Corrected the post to note that the vote is still open - "0:00 time remaining" apparently doesn't really mean "0:00 time remaining".

Which makes perfect sense in DC, of course.

re: #78 Charles

Just saw another 'yea' vote change to 'nay'. And another.

Now it's 205-228.

Guess the arm-twisting is not going over well.

Fox is now saying the House pays to pass the bailout bill - calling it as a no go.

re: #56 Ward Cleaver

re: #56 Ward Cleaver

Went to CSPAN's Web site, got this message:

Server meltdown!

Of course. It's being linked from Drudge. And Drudge is almost as bad as Digg when it comes to sucking up a site's bandwidth through visits.

Fox News says voting is finished. It didn't pass.

re: #86 joncelli

Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue.

Go on over to the Huffpo. (cymbal crash)

re: #44 freedombilly
The fluctuating is only because some folks think the Dems can save this bill. IF they can't, the DOW will drop like a stone.
And for all y'all who work for yourselves or for small to mid-size businesses, they won't be able to access their lines of credit (banks will refuse - hell will have to refuse - to fund them) and you may not be getting another paycheck.

re: #79 kansas

Well that pretty much kills any bill, Ward.

Add on "public hangings of ACORN leaders". That'd get my vote.

re: #90 taxfreekiller

real west

If you need a line of credit to make your next payroll, your not very smart and your buss. plan sucks.

1. Never ever allow your company to be in the hands of your banker.
If he knows that, then he holds the credit back and his bud buys your
company when he stops the pay roll advance on some trumped up bull shit.

2. Have at least 6 months payroll in cash at all times.

Yeah, and have 1.5 million socked away for retirement, well until it becomes 1/2 that in one day. Plus where do you keep the cash? Mattress maybe?

re: #85 unreconstructed rebel

I have been wondering the same thing. McCain had Oflama on the ropes & then Wall Street runs out of cash.

Things moved rather quickly didn't they?

re: #88 MJBrutus

Fortunately, we've seen just how ineffectual and incompetent Pelosi (the Mary Kay School of Cosmetology, SF Campus drop out) is at leading the Dems. The chickenshits won't make a move if the Republicans don't go along, they are too scared of taking responsibility for their own choices.

This is a vote of no confidence in Pelosi and Reid

How many votes are the libs trying to flip?

Apparently it was Pelosi's partisan speech during the debate this morning that absolutely enraged Republicans.

/go figure

re: #66 Charles

Corrected the post to note that the vote is still open - "0:00 time remaining" apparently doesn't really mean "0:00 time remaining".

Yeah, they've got to allow time for all those members who want to "vote against it before they vote for it."

re: #97 They Call Him Boss

re: #56 Ward Cleaver

Of course. It's being linked from Drudge. And Drudge is almost as bad as Digg when it comes to sucking up a site's bandwidth through visits.

Drudge sends MUCH more traffic than Digg. LGF has had front page links on both, and Drudge is an order of magnitude beyond Digg.

re: #98 Charles

Fox News says voting is finished. It didn't pass.

Do you know if the "original" (3-page) bill would have passed?
I'm wondering if we're headed back-toward or away-from abysmal.

I wonder how many "Bridges to Nowhere" Nancy is promising to get this thing passed?

Pelosi doesn't need very many votes to pass this thing. A few minor changes and it will pass tomorrow or the next day.

re: #102 Ward Cleaver

Add on "public hangings of ACORN leaders". That'd get my vote.

Just kidding!

re: #110 Charles

Drudge sends MUCH more traffic than Digg. LGF has had front page links on both, and Drudge is an order of magnitude beyond Digg.

Wow!

re: #99 rawmuse

Go on over to the Huffpo. (cymbal crash)

For future reference, please use instant rimshot!

re: #78 Charles

Just saw another 'yea' vote change to 'nay'. And another.

Now it's 205-228.

Death spasms: after they see it has failed they switch their yes votes to no in order to tell the folks back home they wer agin it.

re: #90 taxfreekiller

real west

If you need a line of credit to make your next payroll, your not very smart and your buss. plan sucks.

1. Never ever allow your company to be in the hands of your banker.
If he knows that, then he holds the credit back and his bud buys your
company when he stops the pay roll advance on some trumped up bull shit.

2. Have at least 6 months payroll in cash at all times.

I don't often give financial advice to businesses - but I have many times to employees. I always tell them that if they suddenly start getting the paycheck after 5 on Friday it is time to find another job pronto!

re: #14 Creeping Eruption

Here is a taste:

"Republican Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leading conservative, said the bill puts the country "on the slippery slope to socialism. If you lose your ability to fail, soon you will lose your ability to succeed.'"

Oh, dear. He is absolutely right and all the concerned Reps are right to balk. However, a no-deal is worse news for McCain than for BHO.

Dow's gone kaput again.

re: #30 stanlef

Having read the whole thing, I am not surprised that it failed. Check out pages 83-87.

What in particular? Wading through the verbiage, especially when it refers to other laws, makes it hard to find the problems.

re: #116 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

For future reference, please use instant rimshot!

That's great. All they need is a B flat chord (ta-daa!) on the end.
bookmarked it.

re: #101 buzzsawmonkey

Remember--even if they vote it down, someone who voted "Nay" can move to reconsider, and put it right back on the table.

There is a clock running on a motion to suspend the rules - very few nays, mostly NV

re: #114 Ward Cleaver

Just kidding!

Effigy hangings.

re: #69 Outrider
and #33 Honorary Yooper
Please see my #35. A lot of folks who are otherwise innocent in this whole mess are gonna stop getting paychecks - blame whomever you want at this point, but that's the naked, cold, truth.

re: #114 Ward Cleaver

Just kidding!

The hangings don't have to be public!
/

re: #107 Killian Bundy

Apparently it was Pelosi's partisan speech during the debate this morning that absolutely enraged Republicans.

/go figure

I'm gonna love hearing Pelosi grovel to the Republicans.

re: #120 bosforus

Dow's gone kaput again.

It isn't that kaput - 10600 and climbing at the second.

If I am getting this right there will be a re-vote in 2:00 minutes?

GOOD! Over regulation caused this, more regulation wont fix it! WAKE UP!

Make loans available at a 2% rate to the banks like Newt said. Gingrich was and is right. this needed to fail. Conventional wisdom was WRONG! just like these lame pols showing obama in the lead. The republicans have a GOLDEN opportunity to tell the American people why this happened, who is to blame and what needs to be done to fix it.

re: #19 Naso Tang

I bet the Republicans have handed the election to Obama on this one. They will be seen as the spoilers. "Let the markets work it out!"

/Right. The markets are who? God?

Bullshit.

McCain is on Capital hill - trying to craft something. He's earning his salary and doing what he was elected to do.

Obambi has his finger up his arse.

The House usually does the right thing. They are the ones with the short terms and have to go back to their districts and live among their constituents.

Tally: Dems: yes 60%/ no 40%
Reps: yes 34%/ no 66%

Looks like Pelosi and company will not be able to get enough votes to carry the day. The chair in the House just gavelled the vote closed.

re: #127 Ward Cleaver

Maybe she should get down on one knee and beg.

re: #119 Russkilitlover

Oh, dear. He is absolutely right and all the concerned Reps are right to balk. However, a no-deal is worse news for McCain than for BHO.

"It's all the Republicans' fault!" - Dems, MSM

I'm glad that password bug was fixed, I thought I was losing my mind yesterday! Did anyone else see the youtube video on Drudge Friday? Awesome clip on who is to blame on this 'crisis' mainly Clinton in 95 changing lending requirements to minorities. Awesome video, just google business and dow, get the Dow's value since 1970, and voila, a spike in stock market value since 1995...and a lot of room to come down.

I won't live on Doughnuts and Bacon.

This is all Oboma's fault. If he would have addressed a joint session of Congress in a football stadium, with Greek Columns as a backdrop, I ask you, who could resist?

They can do one thing right now. Repeal the mark-to-market rule pronto.

re: #123 galloping granny

There is a clock running on a motion to suspend the rules - very few nays, mostly NV

Barack is that you?

re: #107 Killian Bundy

Apparently it was Pelosi's partisan speech during the debate this morning that absolutely enraged Republicans.

/go figure

What did she say? I was teaching math.

re: #127 Ward Cleaver

Her speech was petty, abysmal, typical of her.

The bailout pissed off a lot of normal people who actually pay their bills and mortgages. The gov't made this mess with the different rules and regulations put on banks and on Wall St. Bush bears some blame in this--he was pushing "more Americans in more homes" thing. That's great, but when they don't pay their bills they lose their homes. Just like everyone else.

What I see it as, is a recycle of the last 20-30 years, only different venue.

Greed.

In the early 00's it was the dot.com rush. Money from nothing. Speculation. Then it was petroleum. Then it was real estate. Money from nothing.

I don't mind CEOs getting paid a lot of money. It's their job to lead the company and make the big bucks. But I cannot agree with a company where the CEO makes in the hundreds of millions of dollars while their employees make minimum wage. Something is wrong with that, something inherently un-Christian. What we've seen lately is the CEOs making a crap load of cash then walking away from ruined companies smiling happy-fat-cat.

This whole debacle disgusts me because it was primarily driven by greed, and now they want the American taxpayer to pay for that greed. Disgusting.

re: #127 Ward Cleaver

Apparently it was Pelosi's partisan speech during the debate this morning that absolutely enraged Republicans.

A video of that speech needs to be on every center/right blog everywhere by this afternoon. That would explain a lot.

re: #84 Ben Hur

Actually, 20 arms would be 10 people, and 10 arms, 5 people.

How many individual arms, without twisting two arms of one person, need to be twisted?

It depends on how many unidexes there are involved.

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

So say the same rat bastards who got us in to this mess. Fuck that, let the DOW take a 30% drop and clear out the dead wood. This is an investment liquidity problem. Lower cap gains taxes and find other ways to encourage lending without having our government become the world's biggest mortgage broker.

Hank Paulson needs to be tarred and feathered. That incompetent son of a bitch has led the panic parade. The only thing we need to fear is a hysterical Treasury Secretary and a bunch of scum bag liberals in Congress and in this the case the WH too.

The only thing that stands between us and the next giant stride in to socialism are the House Republicans. Give them your support! Let them know you are grateful for this and that you care about keeping the US of A a free society!

re: #127 Ward Cleaver

I'm gonna love hearing Pelosi grovel to the Republicans.

Down on the "symbolic knee" in a "gesture of levity" maybe?
Why do I get the image of Monica Lewinsky typing that?

Oh, well. Guess I'll have to put retirement on the back burner for a while.

To all you young punks: Sorry, but you're going to have to put up with a lot of old farts gumming up the labor market.

re: #135 HD Woman

Maybe she should get down on one knee and beg.

"Stand on your head, bitch!"

Yikes. Market is very ugly.

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

re: #129 loppyd

If I am getting this right there will be a re-vote in 2:00 minutes?

That's a lot of legs to break in such a short time.

Sorry, this is the best thing. Freaking CNBC blaming it on Republicans. Um, idiots 40% of Dimmocrats voted NAY!

P&G is still safe! Even in hard times people need soap!

re: #140 wahabicorridor

They can do one thing right now. Repeal the mark-to-market rule pronto.

Please explain this rule for us.

re: #121 Kosh's Shadow

Exactly......It essentially rewrites a bunch of regulations placing them directly under a combination of Sec Treasury and a "select subcommittee" rather than the agencies that monitor the markets. (Central Planning)

re: #152 taxfreekiller

Democrats, vote Nancy out now, save your skins.

Steny Hoyer's not a lot better.

re: #90 taxfreekiller
Yup, that's a great idea. Want to bet how many folks can keep 6 months payroll on hand? Want to bet that if they DO have 6 months payroll on hand that they'll pay their workers?
Lines of credit are what keep most businesses going, as most customers don't pay their bills for 30 - 90 days.
Absolutely true of Credit Card users (not abusers, people who pay, but wait until the last minute to pay) and many, many others.

re: #153 neocon hippie

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

One bank loaning to another, I think. It may be code-speak.

GREAT leadership from Pelosi and Frank, huh? Cannot even draft a bill to get 40% of the Democrats...what a joke.

re: #151 Summersong

Yikes. Market is very ugly.

Careful, don't talk like that, Edgar might report you.

re: #156 obageegee

P&G is still safe! Even in hard times people need soap!

"I'm so excited I can hardly wash!"

/the golden age of ballooning

Pelosi, Franks, Reid and, yes, OBAMA need to be removed from Congess!

Repeal CRA today!

How's this for a rosy scenario:

Once assuming power, The Manchurian Community Organizer will create vast government make-work programs to try to absorb the hordes of people thrown out of work by the mess created by Dodd (D-CounTrywide) / Frank (D-Fannie) et al.

This should help to bring the unemployment levels back down to the low-mid teens until such time that we reach effective 100% employment when we have to mobilize the entire country to fight alongside the world's remaining democracies to push back the next inevitable global threat that arises from the worldwide economic downturn.

re: #152 taxfreekiller

Democrats, vote Nancy out now, save your skins.

I wish they'd listen!

re: #128 galloping granny

It isn't that kaput - 10600 and climbing at the second.

I've got the feeling it's going to be all over the place for a while.

re: #142 galloping granny

What did she say? I was teaching math.

I missed it too. Michelle Malkin has this:

12:27pm Eastern. Nancy Pelosi has taken the floor. Here, GOP members who are voting for this monstrosity, is the woman you are hopping on the couch with. “Democrats believe in a free market. But in this unbridled form, encouraged by the Republicans, it has created not jobs, not capital, it has created chaos.”

Now, she is kvetching that the Bush administration didn’t back the latest Dem stimulus-palooza bill and cough up more government funds for broadband lines and infrastructure.

12:41pm Eastern. Pelosi is heaping praise on Barney Frank. Members on the floor applaud. She is demanding bipartisan support. Pelosi gets an ovation.

re: #33 Honorary Yooper

OK, not fully understanding Wall Street, what happens if this passes? What happens if this fails?

Long term? Banks and other lending institutions will now be far more reluctant to risk to non-creditworthy borrowers, especially as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac won't back them as much.

Also, several financial institutions will merge, and they'll have to spend time rebuilding the confidence of potential clients and investors. This will most likely be done via their respective stockholders by voting to get rid of the people who make the risky decisions in the first place.

The bailout would've encouraged keeping the same people who made the bad decisions in, and simply given them new money to make the same poor decisions with.

re: #107 Killian Bundy

Apparently it was Pelosi's partisan speech during the debate this morning that absolutely enraged Republicans.

/go figure

She is an a-hole

re: #163 unrealizedviewpoint

Careful, don't talk like that, Edgar might report you.

Edgar's gamesmanship is ugly. Screw his "i'll tell mommy" wanker little 'tude

In accounting and finance, mark to market is the act of assigning a value to a position held in a financial instrument based on the current market price for that instrument or similar instruments. For example, the final value of a futures contract that expires in 9 months will not be known until it expires. If it is marked to market, for accounting purposes it is assigned the value that it would fetch in the open market currently.

wiki

re: #139 opnion

This is all Oboma's fault. If he would have addressed a joint session of Congress in a football stadium, with Greek Columns as a backdrop, I ask you, who could resist?

Who indeed?
You see, Pelosi didn't think to hire her own brownshirts.

re: #144 Jinx

It's because we don't make anything anymore. When all you are is a service economy, the money has to come from somewhere.

I wonder what the next Ponze scheme will be?

re: #142 galloping granny

What did she say? I was teaching math.

I don't know, that's what's being reported.

/then again, when's the last time you heard anything bipartisan come out of her mouth?

re: #125 realwest

and #33 Honorary Yooper
Please see my #35. A lot of folks who are otherwise innocent in this whole mess are gonna stop getting paychecks - blame whomever you want at this point, but that's the naked, cold, truth.

Spot on. What I will detest is MSM types tlking about 'Joe six pack & his wife sitting around the kitchen table" I get the feeling that they see average Americans sitting around a formica table on a tile floor circa 1950.
They actually find most Americans to be 'quaint"

Here's a novel approach.... How about we run the country and our businesses on cash and not credit...

I'm just sayin'

re: #117 Peacekeeper

Death spasms: after they see it has failed they switch their yes votes to no in order to tell the folks back home they wer agin it.

It seems that there are about 100 Democrats who are nervous about their reelection.

None in CA I'll bet. We've been so thoroughly gerrymandered no Dem could possibly lose.

Can't get in, can someone tell me if John Lewis voted Yes? I'm sure that he did. I want to call that bastard.

re: #153 neocon hippie

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

The daily adjustment of an account to reflect profits and losses,
or,
accounting process by which the price of securities held in account are valued each day to reflect the last sale price or market quote if the last sale is outside of the market quote

re: #153 neocon hippie

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

In accounting and finance, mark to market is the act of assigning a value to a position held in a financial instrument based on the current market price for that instrument or similar instruments. For example, the final value of a futures contract that expires in 9 months will not be known until it expires. If it is marked to market, for accounting purposes it is assigned the value that it would fetch in the open market currently.

From Wiki I think it was one of the Congressional fuck ups that got us here.

re: #156 obageegee

P&G is still safe! Even in hard times people need soap!

Who makes Pepto-Bismol? Their business must be booming now!

re: #148 jwb7605

Down on the "symbolic knee" in a "gesture of levity" maybe?
Why do I get the image of Monica Lewinsky typing that?

How does Paulson look in a blue dress?

re: #118 galloping granny
That, of course, assumes there ARE other jobs, much less than you can get one PRONTO.

re: #169 bosforus

Me, too.

I've been wondering if they're going to close the market today, or what.

The problem being that the SEC doesn't dare. We need the market signals.

If I were still a smoker, I'd be downstairs puffing like mad, just now.

re: #153 neocon hippie

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

In accounting and finance, mark to market is the act of assigning a value to a position held in a financial instrument based on the current market price for that instrument or similar instruments. For example, the final value of a futures contract that expires in 9 months will not be known until it expires. If it is marked to market, for accounting purposes it is assigned the value that it would fetch in the open market currently.

The above was copied from the Wikipedia article.

re: #171 gmsc

Long term? Banks and other lending institutions will now be far more reluctant to risk to non-creditworthy borrowers, especially as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac won't back them as much.

Also, several financial institutions will merge, and they'll have to spend time rebuilding the confidence of potential clients and investors. This will most likely be done via their respective stockholders by voting to get rid of the people who make the risky decisions in the first place.

The bailout would've encouraged keeping the same people who made the bad decisions in, and simply given them new money to make the same poor decisions with.

Don't see how loaning to the non-creditworthy types is a big problem.

re: #173 SpartanWoman

Who's Edgar?

re: #171 gmsc

Long term? Banks and other lending institutions will now be far more reluctant to risk to non-creditworthy borrowers, especially as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac won't back them as much.

That's not exactly a bad thing. It never should've been done in the first place.

Also, several financial institutions will merge, and they'll have to spend time rebuilding the confidence of potential clients and investors. This will most likely be done via their respective stockholders by voting to get rid of the people who make the risky decisions in the first place.

The bailout would've encouraged keeping the same people who made the bad decisions in, and simply given them new money to make the same poor decisions with.

Again, not exactly a bad thing. In capitalism, the poorly managed fail, and the well managed gobble up the leftovers.

There goes my 401k. Guess I'll try selling funnel cakes or kettle corn or something for my retirement money.

re: #133 taxfreekiller

Real Estate in Calif. will be on its way to a real value number very soon.

Bubble got trouble.

I brought that topic up with a financial advisor 6 months ago and she flipped, knew then it was time to find someone else.

I'd like to see the breakout of the vote, member-by-member.

re: #186 saberry0530

How does Paulson look in a blue dress?

Devastating!

/

re: #133 taxfreekiller

Real Estate in Calif. will be on its way to a real value number very soon.

Bubble got trouble.

Bubble got trouble in lots of places, and the correction will create more affordable housing for many Americans - far more than any frickin' housing program the government could concoct.

The reason that affordable housing projects were demanded by the Left was because the markets were constrained from building new housing - and therefore restrictions created an artificial demand. Increasing housing increases supplies. The government's lending stance on homes increased demand by pushing riskier lending and subprimes entered the market in greater numbers, even as they lacked the capacity to repay.

These companies are getting their comeuppance, and it should be remembered that the vast majority of banks are on solid fiscal footing because they didn't partake in these risky mortgage schemes. You're seeing big banks fail because they were pushed into this area by the feds, and then repackaged the toxic paper.

House defeats $700B financial markets bailout

To me after this failed vote,I see hope.And after the election, the Dumbocrates voted out,we can have change.

re: #170 loppyd

Michelle Malkin has succumbed to her dislike of Pelosi. I think she needs to step back, and take a few breaths, because currently, I don't like what she's saying, and I'm frankly disturbed by the tone.

re: #147 MJBrutus

So say the same rat bastards who got us in to this mess. Fuck that, let the DOW take a 30% drop and clear out the dead wood. This is an investment liquidity problem. Lower cap gains taxes and find other ways to encourage lending without having our government become the world's biggest mortgage broker.

Hank Paulson needs to be tarred and feathered. That incompetent son of a bitch has led the panic parade. The only thing we need to fear is a hysterical Treasury Secretary and a bunch of scum bag liberals in Congress and in this the case the WH too.

The only thing that stands between us and the next giant stride in to socialism are the House Republicans. Give them your support! Let them know you are grateful for this and that you care about keeping the US of A a free society!

So you say. I was under employed for a while and am in debt because of it. I need this bill. If ACORN has to be bailed out so that I can get the debt relief I need, so be it.

re: #198 buzzsawmonkey

Just mark it to market, then bail out the pigs
Or vote down the bailout and watch them dance jigs.

--New Nursery Rhymes

You got anything around Nantucket?

re: #155 cblesz

Sorry, this is the best thing. Freaking CNBC blaming it on Republicans. Um, idiots 40% of Dimmocrats voted NAY!

Neil Cavuto is anchoring this on Fox. He's not too shabby at interpreting stuff. He and all of his talking heads don't seem very upset. One of the things they are stressing is that the markets have taken only a 2-3% hit over it.

re: #196 Ward Cleaver

Devastating!

/

NOt as good as he would look in an orange jumpsuit pickin up trash along the highway!

re: #191 joncelli

Who's Edgar?

A whiny little troll, IMO

re: #153 neocon hippie

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

The Sarbanes-Oxley rule were enacted after Enron. One of them is mark-to-market. It means that you cannot value assets on the books for what you think you MIGHT be able to sell them for down the road, but what you can sell them for TODAY. When the market for derivatives such as credit default swaps dried up, they had to be valued at zero.

And everyone's books imploded.

Keep in mind, these things absolutely do have underlying value. Repealing that rule would let people say ok, we think this is worth $x - and auction this stuff off.

re: #155 cblesz

Sorry, this is the best thing. Freaking CNBC blaming it on Republicans. Um, idiots 40% of Dimmocrats voted NAY!

Let em, the overwhelming majority of Americans(You know the investors) oppose this bail out.

re: #14 Creeping Eruption

Here is a taste:

"Republican Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leading conservative, said the bill puts the country "on the slippery slope to socialism. If you lose your ability to fail, soon you will lose your ability to succeed.'"

Hats off, this isn't about bailing out those effected, it's about the lefts need to increase government influence. Demand invesigation and all involved, resign.

House Republicans found their spine!

The silver lining in all of this for me is the number of Barney Frank sound bites. Coming from Massachusetts I have enjoyed this man trying to speak English for years but am happy he is being prominently featured on the national stage.

With Frank, Kennedy and Mumbles Menino the Boston area is spoiled with fun sound bites!

re: #38 buzzsawmonkey

Remember that under Robert's Rules, anyone who voted with the majority can "move to reconsider," and that will put the bill back on the table--at which time, of course, people whose arms have been properly twisted can change their vote and it can pass.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that this is just as wrong--letting the voting continue after the clock has run out--as when she stopped the vote early and wouldn't let people vote on that bill earlier this year?

Or am I just being a purist?

re: #66 Charles

Corrected the post to note that the vote is still open - "0:00 time remaining" apparently doesn't really mean "0:00 time remaining".

Huh - wasn't it Kissinger who stopped the clock so that negotiations could go on with the North Vietnamese?

I know they do that (stopping the clock) when hammering out EU-Treaties ...

re: #207 SpartanWoman

A whiny little troll, IMO

That's not opinion, that's substantiated fact, IMO.

0bama couldn't even organize the Congressional community to get something done.

re: #153 neocon hippie

Would someone please explain in relatively simple terms what "mark-to-market" means?

When you buy a car for $20k and drive it off the parking lot, you can only resell it for $17K. If you followed the 'mark-to-market' rules, you just took a $3k hit to income.

Same principal with the CDO's but the mark down right now is 80% on trillions of dollars.

Whoa, they're suspending the Rules and are going for a re-vote?

2:22pm

re: #199 taxfreekiller

If you do panic its because you are afraid, cowards do not win fights.

The msm are all cowards and they will pass their yellow belly crap to the public. Stand up! One of the many things I hate about Obama is he is always negative about anything American. China - great ..... America not so much for him. I am sick of that ass talking crap about America.

re: #204 kansas

You got anything around Nantucket?

Who wants to deal with Nantucket? That's in Kennedy / Kerry territory.

re: #180 N_Jones

Here's a novel approach.... How about we run the country and our businesses on cash and not credit...

I'm just sayin'

In God we trust. All others pay cash.

re: #214 vxbush

No, Nancy seems to want to do what Nancy wants to do, not what protocol and rules call for.

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

So you say. I was under employed for a while and am in debt because of it. I need this bill. If ACORN has to be bailed out so that I can get the debt relief I need, so be it.

What makes you think you are going to get debt relief from this? I read every word of it and saw very little in their for individuals.

re: #156 obageegee

P&G is still safe! Even in hard times people need soap!

Speak for yourself

re: #34 taxfreekiller

Stand up, fight back, this current bail out is a Democratic scam, cover up, and fraud. Give it time. If we can get some teeth in the deal, some way to demand real hearings (not Nancy cover up hearings) , then we can put some stakes in the heart of the loon liberal commies. The blue dog Democrats and the conservative R's now have a chance.

Do not back down, the sky is not falling, global warming is a fraud, and commies never win.

Dingy won't work; but thank you, tfk for your post

I hope you are right, I hope this is a scam. However I simply do not know. I do know that Republicans are failing to make their case, from the President, to McCain, down to the least senior member of the House. The Democrats own the conduits of information (media) and they are relentless. And, yes, they will establish a new category of criminal: political criminals and the Obama campaign will prevail in suppressing political speech. This is the crossroads for America, we can fight and preserve our freedoms and a decent future for our kids, or we will live under the velvet tyranny of "progressives."

re: #217 Sharmuta

0bama couldn't even organize the Congressional community to get something done.

...or a two car funeral.

...or a piss-up in a brewery.

Okay, the House is taking up other business on CSPAN. So, apparently, they gave up on the arm twisting and it's over.

/although some type of communication from the Senate was just announced, so there still might be room for chicanery

re: #140 wahabicorridor
ABSOLUTELY. AND while they're at it, delete the effin' CRA bill too.

Right now the DOW is fluctuating around -500~-450. Price of oil dropped 10 bucks a barrel.

The fact that 95 democrats voted against this bill is hugely significant. If Pelosi, Hoyer and Frank cannot get their own party to vote for this bill, why should they expect the Republicans to bail them out?

Barney has already come out and said it was the republicans who killed the bill, which is an unmitigated crock of shit, since 95 members of his own party did not support its passage.

House Repubs have said they're back in conference discussing what the next step is. Hopefully they'll come out with a plan that is a bit of a hybrid, and the dems who voted against the first one will go along on the repubs' one, and that will pass.

If a new (repub backed) plan passes the smell test, they will have pulled off quite a coup.

How many of us here in Lizardia ever thought we'd be live blogging a House vote?

lol...this is absolutely crazy.

"Nancy Pelosi is the worst Speaker of the House in my lifetime"--Rush Limbaugh just now.

re: #226 galloping granny

They're not drafting it to save individuals. They're trying to save their political behinds and greedy lenders behinds.

re: #221 Noam Chumpski

Whoa, they're suspending the Rules and are going for a re-vote?

2:22pm

WTF! Let's just suspend ALL rules (and we'll have fun until the grownups come to fetch us).

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

Who wants to deal with Nantucket? That's in Kennedy / Kerry territory.

Like a limerick, There was an old woman from Nantucket, who told everyone to go......................you get the idea.

My wife the made point: What idiots claim they have an agreement and don't count their votes in advance. This is worse for the stock market than not coming to agreement in advance (and not having a vote.)

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

So you were unemployed a while. Who's job is it to pay your bills when you cannot? Sorry, but I've been unemployed for stretches of my life too. I racked up debts too. I did not go demanding that other people bail my sorry ass out. It sounds like you're working now. Good! Be responsible and watch your spending and pay back your debts, just like I did.

re: #211 Dirk Diggler

Forget your /sarc tag?

re: #188 Dianna

I've been wondering if they're going to close the market today

/the circuit breaker would kick in at about DOW -1200 for today

re: #212 merrytexas

House Republicans found their spine!

And a few Democrats too. The Dems had enough votes all by themselves to pass this. Main Street America defeated this. Apparently it was made very clear to most reps that if they wanted to keep their jobs they would not pass this bill.

re: #221 Noam Chumpski

Whoa, they're suspending the Rules and are going for a re-vote?

2:22pm

I haven't seen a do-over since 4th grade.

www.house.gov The House of Representatives website is down! I'm trying to get the results of who voted for and against...

re: #230 Killian Bundy

Okay, the House is taking up other business on CSPAN. So, apparently, they gave up on the arm twisting and it's over.

"Enough!"
/BHO

What's the over-under on the DOW drop today? 800?

re: #233 jemima

"Nancy Pelosi is the worst Speaker of the House in my lifetime"--Rush Limbaugh just now.

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY...WHAT A FREAKING IDIOT!

re: #206 saberry0530

NOt as good as he would look in an orange jumpsuit pickin up trash along the highway!

Along with Obama.

re: #226 galloping granny

What makes you think you are going to get debt relief from this? I read every word of it and saw very little in their for individuals.

If credit markets aren't stabilized, there won't be anyway for me to get my home refinanced. Nor will I be able to consolidate any debt like I would otherwise be able to now that I have a proper job again.

re: #228 joan

Dingy won't work; but thank you, tfk for your post

I hope you are right, I hope this is a scam. However I simply do not know. I do know that Republicans are failing to make their case, from the President, to McCain, down to the least senior member of the House. The Democrats own the conduits of information (media) and they are relentless. And, yes, they will establish a new category of criminal: political criminals and the Obama campaign will prevail in suppressing political speech. This is the crossroads for America, we can fight and preserve our freedoms and a decent future for our kids, or we will live under the velvet tyranny of "progressives."

I don't think the Republicans in general are failing to make their case. I think that Bush's case - pro bailout - is not the position of the Congressional republicans.

re: #233 jemima

"Nancy Pelosi is the worst Speaker of the House in my lifetime"--Rush Limbaugh just now.

Just keep a microphone in her face. She does more for the Republican cause than they could ever do for themselves.

I didn't even bother contacting my congressman--Maurice Hinchey the commie who wants to nationalize the oil companies.

re: #191 joncelli

Who's Edgar?

Edgar is "new", and has caused me to exit two threads in total disgust.
He tends to make a "somewhat provacative comment", and then spends a lot of time claiming people directly called him "racist", "sexist", "homophobic", or whatever fits the topic. Three threads back, he's at his best.

You need to read the progress of the whole thread. It will make you want to not participate in anything he enters into.

I could care less about the price ofoil right now since we can't get any gas around these parts anyway. (ATL)
So what happens next? I mean other then my 401k getting wirped out.

re: #254 jemima

I didn't even bother contacting my congressman--Maurice Hinchey the commie who wants to nationalize the oil companies.

Oh, man... Jesus, I'm sorry. wow. I sort of thought that she represented... some plants or something.

Hey, Cynthia McKenny represented me for a while. It's Not. Your. Fault. lol

re: #231 realwest

ABSOLUTELY. AND while they're at it, delete the effin' CRA bill too.

heya real!

And the 620 state state scam on mortgages that allowed the 'liar loans'

re: #145 joncelli

A video of that speech needs to be on every center/right blog everywhere by this afternoon. That would explain a lot.

Please, someone with know-how post it? I missed it.

re: #125 realwest

and #33 Honorary Yooper
Please see my #35. A lot of folks who are otherwise innocent in this whole mess are gonna stop getting paychecks - blame whomever you want at this point, but that's the naked, cold, truth.

It isn't the blame game that has my interest at the moment. It is the timing of this entire affair and the way it is playing out.

Does anyone remember how it started exactly? Did the FMae and FMac all of a sudden ask for financial help and AIG popped in? Why didn't all these financial geniuses note a collapse earlier. I am aware of the 2003/2004 warnings. But this year in particular. Just curious.

I wonder if the Dems are going to try and put Jamie Gorelick on the investigative committee for this mess.

This is like a Warner Brothers movie.

re: #242 Killian Bundy

/the circuit breaker would kick in at about DOW -1200 for today

I have this picture in my mind of Harry Reid running around looking for the light switches to turn off.

Mark to market

1. The act of recording the price or value of a security, portfolio or account to reflect its current market value rather than its book value.

2. In terms of mutual funds, a MTM is when the net asset value (NAV) of the fund is valued upon the most current market values.

Investopedia Says... 1. This is done most often in futures accounts to make sure that margin requirements are being met. If the current market value causes the margin account to fall below its required level, the trader will be faced with a margin call.

2. Mutual funds are marked to market on a daily basis at the market close so that investors have an idea of the fund's NAV.

[Link: www.investopedia.com...]

re: #257 Just_A_Grunt

I could care less about the price ofoil right now since we can't get any gas around these parts anyway. (ATL)
So what happens next? I mean other then my 401k getting wirped out.

Sam's Club. Only Members can use the pups.

I got in and out in 15 minutes yesterday.

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

If credit markets aren't stabilized, there won't be anyway for me to get my home refinanced. Nor will I be able to consolidate any debt like I would otherwise be able to now that I have a proper job again.

What makes you think you are going to get your home refinanced? Or consolidate? There are an awful lot of families out there that have not been able to refinance - in better financial shape than you. And more than a few of them are going to take a gigantic and permanent hit over it. One of my daughters is one of them. She would still rather take the hit than pay for a $700 billion bail out scam.

re: #234 taxfreekiller

Uncle Jim's Treatise on why People with Small Brains are Closed Minded -

Because if they open their mind, their brain will fall out.

It turns out that is one of the few things they really understand. It's why they behave the way they do,

#256

Edgar is striving to be the new Nodrog.

re: #232 Intrepid

95 members of his own party did not support its passage.

The Sky is NOT falling and we do NOT need COMMUNISM to save us.

The first attempt at avoiding "the abyss" didn't work, so now they're going to suspend the rules and attempt a re-vote, to be known hereafter as "son of abyss".

re: #225 merrytexas

No, Nancy seems to want to do what Nancy wants to do, not what protocol and rules call for.

This is such BS. She really needs to see a mob outside her window with pitchforks and torches.

re: #242 Killian Bundy

No circuit breakers after 2:30 pm edt if Dow down 10%. 30 minute halt if down 10% between 2-2:30pm edt.

[Link: www.nyse.com...]

Will 0bama claim credit for this too?