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Bailout Bill Passes in Senate

Business | Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:27:50 pm PDT

The Senate has passed the bailout bill (I refuse to call it a “rescue”). Now it goes back to the House.

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1038 comments

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1 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:28:51pm

We still have two places to shut this crap down. Either the House or the President can do it.

2 LEGION  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:29:03pm

Shame.

3 ArmyWife  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:29:25pm

Since the President started this, you really think he is going to veto it? For why?

4 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:29:55pm

Unlike the Senate, the House members have to all answer to their districts and face-election. I hope they do the right thing and vote it down. If we're going to have a bill, it needs to be porkless.

5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:30:15pm

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition...

6 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:30:24pm

Has this reverted to a one-gallon pail, or is still a 55 gallon drum?

7 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:30:53pm

U.S senate, aka the good ole boys club. Hopefully the House stops this cold. Boortz said it best this morning- Congress is trying to fix the problem they caused. That's like calling the arsonist to put out the fire he started.

8 red satellite  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:31:09pm

House of the Rising Fund....are last chance

9 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:31:20pm

re: #6 Cap'n DOC

Has this reverted to a one-gallon pail, or is still a 55 gallon drum?

Think supertanker...

10 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:31:23pm

re: #6 Cap'n DOC

Has this reverted to a one-gallon pail, or is still a 55 gallon drum?

Railway tank car.

11 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:31:37pm

The President is going to sign it. He and Paulson pretty much demanded a bailout package because they declared this an immediate crisis. They forced Congress to act - and what this bill contains is the sum result of the decision by Congress to treat this "crisis" as any other piece of legislation by larding it up with pork as far as the eye can see. Throw in every kind of unrelated bill and who cares about the costs.

Let's see if Pelosi can get her caucus to support the bill, or will it once again go down to defeat because she can't deliver her own caucus.

12 usafvet  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:31:42pm

I am disgusted. Thoroughly disgusted.

13 jopa416  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:31:46pm

The way things are going I am going to "Bail Out" and move to the Bahama's

14 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:32:00pm

i don't think anyone is telling us the truth.
i don't think they know the truth.

15 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:32:02pm

I would not doubt if the house drags it out because as long as it is in the press it helps Obama. Pelosi does not care about the people she only cares about getting Obama elected.

16 rabidfox  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:32:07pm

They just couldn't resist the temptation to pork it up. Way to go - no wonder Congress has a dismal approval rating.

17 cincinnati_kid37  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:32:24pm

The Fed pumped 632 billion into the financial system today or yesterday and didn't have to ask anyone. It's pumped well over a trillion since this thing started.

This whole thing is rhetorical.

18 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:32:27pm

re: #9 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Ahhhh. I see. Something a pig can swim in and get lost.

19 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:33:03pm

re: #13 jopa416

The way things are going I am going to "Bail Out" and move to the Bahama's

Please don't. In this case there is no place you can run to that won't be adversely effected.

20 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:33:48pm

re: #18 Cap'n DOC

Ahhhh. I see. Something a pig can swim in and get lost.

Oink!

/Second Oink tonight... enough to make it a tradition at USMA.

21 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:33:54pm

For that which we are about to receive we thank thee Lord.

Character? Movie?

22 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:34:08pm

Thank God President Obama is here to lead us to prosperity.

/

23 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:34:08pm

Ohio Secretary of State (Democrat or ACORN, who can tell anymore?)

No ballot observers for same day registration and voting.

Nothing to see here, move along.

24 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:34:21pm

why didn't anyone stand up and get rid of the acorn allotment?

25 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:34:44pm

re: #13 jopa416

The way things are going I am going to "Bail Out" and move to the Bahama's

I heard that after Nov. 5th it's going to be called the Obamas.

26 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:35:24pm

Yes yes, now Fannie May can resume buying all those zero down interest only jumbo mortgages.

27 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:35:25pm

Those Cubs fans have turned on the team faster than the media on McCain.

A lesson lies somewhere therein.

28 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:35:25pm

The roll call available anywhere? I want to ding the two that need some dingin'. They obviously don't listen to their constituents (ME being one of them).

29 Basho  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:35:27pm

Hooray the economy is saved! Guess this means we're building nuclear plants now and wrapping up that border fence...

30 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:35:45pm

re: #24 nyc redneck

why didn't anyone stand up and get rid of the acorn allotment?

No debate. Get it over ASAP and piecemeal fix the problems it generates later. We have a House full of slackers who deserve to be out of work - soon.

31 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:35:56pm

This bill needs to be quashed.

Friends don't let friends vote for pork.

32 jopa416  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:36:03pm

re: #25 Joe Six Pack

Hey-OOOOOO ! Zing

33 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:36:24pm

all of a sudden the glass seems half empty.
just like that.

34 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:36:52pm

re: #24 nyc redneck

why didn't anyone stand up and get rid of the acorn allotment?

I thought it was deleted? It's still there?

35 FloridaAnole  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:36:53pm

Damn. Crappity crap crap crap. I hope somebody will strip all the pork out of the mess before we turn a substantial fraction of our GNP over to Paulson.

36 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:36:58pm

re: #24 nyc redneck

why didn't anyone stand up and get rid of the acorn allotment?

From what I heard, that's part of the reason why it was rejected by the HoR.

37 USA  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:37:12pm

Mental health benefits!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Are these Senators out of their minds?

38 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:37:15pm

Phew. All the Fannie Mae crackhouses in Maxine Waters' district are now safe from foreclosure.

39 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:37:18pm

Isnt McCain supposed to be the *no pork* guy? Did he nap rather than read this bill? They are all liars, McCain included.
I hate having my trust breached, trashed.

40 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:37:58pm

the Dodd amendment - *shiver* "passed".

The fox is watching the hen house.
The #1 recipient of Fannie/Freddie campaign money is in charge.
Sleep well!

41 pegcity  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:38:36pm

how much was acorn promised this time?

42 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:38:41pm

re: #36 Joe Six Pack

From what I heard, that's part of the reason why it was rejected by the HoR.

Or at least by the Congressional Black Caucus.

43 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:38:53pm

re: #37 USA

Mental health benefits!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Are these Senators out of their minds?

Well, this is Washington D.C. afterall.

44 Beobachter  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:38:54pm

re: #37 USA

Mental health benefits!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Are these Senators out of their minds?

It'd better be for their own mental health ! They need it.

45 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:00pm

re: #37 USA

Mental health benefits!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Are these Senators out of their minds?

Cynthia McKinney, once again trying to get benefits for herself.

46 FloridaAnole  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:01pm

re: #34 kevinmumaw

I thought it was deleted? It's still there?


Probably. It looks like there's everything from fish to double-bitted axe blades in there.

47 Killian Bundy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:02pm

re: #26 Mich-again

Yes yes, now Fannie May can resume buying all those zero down interest only jumbo mortgages.

/Democrats Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Economic Crisis

48 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:21pm

re: #27 JammieWearingFool

Those Cubs fans have turned on the team faster than the media on McCain.

A lesson lies somewhere therein.

Crap, they lost... is Mama Winger OK?

49 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:23pm

re: #37 USA

Mental health benefits!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Are these Senators out of their minds?

Takes one to know one...

50 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:25pm

Did MCCain just win Miss Congeniality?

51 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:28pm

Harry Reid can piss up a rope.

52 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:44pm

no, not a good idea
to get it over w/ as soon as possible.
by substandard practitioners.

53 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:39:59pm

re: #50 lifeofthemind

Did MCCain just win Miss Congeniality?

He has the friggin Princess crown

54 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:40:51pm

re: #40 FrogMarch

the Dodd amendment - *shiver* "passed".

The fox is watching the hen house.
The #1 recipient of Fannie/Freddie campaign money is in charge.
Sleep well!

Terrifying, isn't it? The man should be in shackles facing life at Leavenworth.

Ken Lay was a street corner three-card Monte hustler next this this guy and Barney Frank.

55 ArmyWife  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:40:52pm

re: #37 USA Because that is so relevant to the mortgage issue. Hey! No house but you can go get some counseling right here...

56 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:40:56pm

With all this pork,
can they get the Jewish vote?

57 jetprop  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:41:29pm

Harry Reid 'impressed' with Dodd
/WTF?

58 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:41:31pm

If it doesn't have a rider mandating that Barney Frank has to wear a dunce cap for the rest of his life, I wouldn't pass it. But that's just me.

59 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:41:35pm

I think Harry is going to kiss Dodd

60 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:41:55pm

What's the deal with the house.gov server? I have dial-up, but I can't get through.

If they've shut down comments so they don't have to be burdened by what their constituents think, that's a terrible precedent to set.

61 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:05pm

Boy, they sure are good at spending other people's money.

Bastards.

62 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:36pm

Shut up ...... hang your heads ........ and friggin walk away.

63 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:43pm

re: #48 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Crap, they lost... is Mama Winger OK?

It ain't over 'til it's over...Bottom of the 9th coming up for my Cubs.

64 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:44pm

re: #60 Palandine

What's the deal with the house.gov server? I have dial-up, but I can't get through.

If they've shut down comments so they don't have to be burdened by what their constituents think, that's a terrible precedent to set.

The servers have gone into a melt down along with the phone system.

65 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:49pm

re: #11 lawhawk

I haven't read the "new" bill. Is there a lot of pork?

66 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:54pm

Dirty Harry, Statesman. All praise to Chris Dodd.

Pass the Pepto please.

67 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:42:58pm

re: #59 JacksonTn

I think Harry is going to kiss Dodd

Where?

Ass?

what?

68 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:00pm

re: #62 JacksonTn

Shut up ...... hang your heads ........ and friggin walk away.

..lacin up my tennies now

69 Freedom Ben  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:06pm

re: #17 cincinnati_kid37

The Fed pumped 632 billion into the financial system today or yesterday and didn't have to ask anyone. It's pumped well over a trillion since this thing started.

This whole thing is rhetorical.

So if the fed is taking care of the liquidity problem, then is the bailout bill just creating an artificial price floor to "stabilize" the market? And if our tax dollars are used to set a price higher then the market is willing to pay, wouldn't that by definition mean that we're getting ripped off?

70 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:09pm

re: #57 jetprop

Harry Reid 'impressed' with Dodd
/WTF?

The dems are all in love with each other. Disgusting.
Corrupt proggies in love.

71 Luigi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:13pm
"There are people who are more impressive each time you work with them. And that's Chris Dodd."
--Harry Reid
72 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:20pm

re: #46 FloridaAnole

Probably. It looks like there's everything from fish to double-bitted axe blades in there.

Jesus...someone needs to grow a pair and drop ACORN from the trough.

73 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:21pm

I'm just a bill. I'm only a bill. And I'm trying to get to the top of Capitol Hill.

74 cblesz  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:23pm

I know it is unpopular and I disagree with it. I also know it will only affect confidence in the short term. It is very confusing to the average person who does not work on the street. I do. I hate this bill as it goes against every ounce of my capitalism bones...but, it is a rescue package. It is not a bailout and is not bailing anyone out.

I would not call it a rescue either. I would call it the price we have to pay to fix bloated government policies, ala Freddie, Fannie and CRA...

75 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:34pm

re: #59 JacksonTn

I think Harry is going to kiss Dodd

I'd rather watch the Cubs lose, thank you.

76 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:43pm

More praises for Chris Dodd.

Fuck you, senator.

77 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:43:48pm

re: #65 Russkilitlover

I haven't read the "new" bill. Is there a lot of pork?

More pork than there has ever been in all of Iowa.

78 jcm  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:03pm

OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK

79 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:04pm

re: #65 Russkilitlover

450 pages..and ACORN is back in. McCain votes AYE
he is as bad as the rest of the goons

80 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:09pm

re: #64 Perplexed

The servers have gone into a melt down along with the phone system.

I'll bet ! ! ! :D :D :D :D

81 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:11pm

Reid and co are talking about the bill. McCain is nowhere to be seen.

82 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:32pm

re: #54 JammieWearingFool

Terrifying, isn't it? The man should be in shackles facing life at Leavenworth.

Ken Lay was a street corner three-card Monte hustler next this this guy and Barney Frank.

Democrats are not only above the law, they get to keep their power-jobs.

83 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:53pm

re: #65 Russkilitlover

I haven't read the "new" bill. Is there a lot of pork?

Last time I saw this much pork, Rosie O'Donnell was still on "The View".

84 Luigi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:44:58pm

I assume the numbers are turning against the Dems if this bill is moving along.

85 ArmyWife  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:45:08pm

re: #71 Luigi


I am impressed with the lot of them. Impressed people so colossally stupid actually exist outside of the movies.

86 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:45:16pm

Anyone have a linky to the text?

87 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:45:36pm

re: #76 astronmr20

More praises for Chris Dodd.

Fuck you, senator.

And Barney Frank!

88 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:45:55pm

re: #79 Wishing

450 pages..and ACORN is back in. McCain votes AYE
he is as bad as the rest of the goons

there goes the election.

Obama will get credit for saving the world.

89 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:45:58pm

Dodd on now. I am going to stab myself in the eye.

RETURN THE FUCKING FANNIE AND FREDDIE MONEY, YOU FUCKING FRAUD. This is your fault.

...and the Republicans don't have the balls to show the American people what really happened. Even if they did, the election is too soon.

Fuck.

Fuck.

90 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:02pm

re: #79 Wishing

450 pages..and ACORN is back in. McCain votes AYE
he is as bad as the rest of the goons

Well, that's just craptastic. Hopefully the House will tell the Senate to go f*** themselves.

91 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:10pm

re: #74 cblesz

I know it is unpopular and I disagree with it. I also know it will only affect confidence in the short term. It is very confusing to the average person who does not work on the street. I do. I hate this bill as it goes against every ounce of my capitalism bones...but, it is a rescue package. It is not a bailout and is not bailing anyone out.

I would not call it a rescue either. I would call it the price we have to pay to fix bloated government policies, ala Freddie, Fannie and CRA...

freddie, fannie and CRA are bad business. it wasn't business. it was reparations.

92 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:14pm

re: #79 Wishing

450 pages..and ACORN is back in. McCain votes AYE
he is as bad as the rest of the goons

He had to. Despite my exasperation - this thing probably had to happen.
Let the democrats back-slap each other - self-congratulatory fools. They can own this.

93 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:30pm

Refresh my memory, didn't Line Item Veto pass?

Can't Bush just nix all the fluff and leave the stuff?

"We, the congress of the united states, agree to buy some of the bad debt to stem this crisis.

And a 40 million dollar dam for my county, with no major rivers or even flooding.

And 75 million for research on the left-handed giant hissing cockroach's reaction to rock music."

94 jetprop  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:35pm

Dodd: "Barney frank did a great job" getting us in this mess

/emphasis mine

95 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:47pm

"deeply proud" democrats. PUKE.

96 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:49pm

Republicans need to go on the offensive, or I am not voting. Fuck this.

97 Reno911  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:50pm

Well, the good news is we found about John McCain before he took office.

Good effort John, you almost had me.

98 cblesz  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:53pm

Chris Dodd ought to be in prison...what the fuck?

99 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:46:59pm

Congress members make me sick on TV right now praising Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

Double spit.

100 ArmyWife  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:13pm

re: #74 cblesz


but for the money going to acorn and renewing arrow law text and giving the kitchen sink to the lowest bidder. Yep, that is going to really, really make a dent in the economic situation

101 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:27pm

BOHICA time

102 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:28pm

re: #84 Luigi

I assume the numbers are turning against the Dems if this bill is moving along.

shit!

The MSM will praise Obamas phone calls.

103 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:32pm

re: #65 Russkilitlover

I haven't read the "new" bill. Is there a lot of pork?

Is the Pope German?

104 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:40pm

More thanks for Chris Dodd.

That fucker should be in jail.

105 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:45pm

re: #81 Irene NYC

Reid and co are talking about the bill. McCain is nowhere to be seen.

I don't want to drink alone and right now I'd like to drink with friends. Virtually speaking this is a cherry on a cake.

106 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:54pm

re: #90 kevinmumaw

Well, that's just craptastic. Hopefully the House will tell the Senate to go f*** themselves.

I certainly have no hope of that. McCAIN didnt have the balls to vote NO.
He is as hypocritical as the rest...I am utterly disgusted, and at this point i could care less who wins the damn election: same empty suits, all of em.

107 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:56pm

re: #78 jcm

OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK

Slow down there, stud... only one to a customer.

108 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:47:56pm

re: #89 astronmr20

Dodd on now. I am going to stab myself in the eye.

RETURN THE FUCKING FANNIE AND FREDDIE MONEY, YOU FUCKING FRAUD. This is your fault.

...and the Republicans don't have the balls to show the American people what really happened. Even if they did, the election is too soon.

Fuck.

Fuck.

If it wasn't for the damage he could do appointing Judges, I'd be voting for Obambi.

109 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:00pm

it is so sickening to listen to them praise each other like they have just done something heroic. they added 150 billion and about 3-4 hundred pages. great stuff guys! where would we be without you.

how can they stand there and praise Dodd and frank over and over.

110 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:08pm

Does Dodd have pictures of these guys with hookers or something? Why are they praising him.

111 Osama Bin Porkchop  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:09pm

re: #76 astronmr20

More praises for Chris Dodd.

Fuck you, senator.

Amen.....Dodd and Frank should be wearing orange jumpsuits and doing a perp walk.....

112 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:18pm

This show boat of bullshit is how the democrats manipulate the media into believing they are off the hook.

no way - the demos got us into this mess - they need to pay.

113 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:30pm

It's 450 pages long, but the actual bailout amount is set out starting on page 40, with several conditions precedent to increase the amount to $700 billion if warranted.

114 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:37pm

re: #97 Reno911

Well, the good news is we found about John McCain before he took office.

Good effort John, you almost had me.

Zackly my sentiments, Reno

115 Reno911  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:44pm

re: #74 cblesz

Dude, it ain't confusing.

It's Socialism.

116 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:48:53pm

re: #106 Wishing

I certainly have no hope of that. McCAIN didnt have the balls to vote NO.
He is as hypocritical as the rest...I am utterly disgusted, and at this point i could care less who wins the damn election: same empty suits, all of em.

I am at my breaking point. Am with you.

117 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:07pm

Rove said that freshman dems were told not to vote for the bill first time around so they could make the republicans look bad.

118 Osama Bin Porkchop  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:19pm

re: #110 JacksonTn

Does Dodd have pictures of these guys with hookers or something? Why are they praising him.

Or he'll threaten to sic the Acorn thugs on them....

119 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:24pm

re: #93 Silhouette

Refresh my memory, didn't Line Item Veto pass?

Can't Bush just nix all the fluff and leave the stuff?

Pretty sure the courts have struck it down.

120 cblesz  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:27pm

re: #100 ArmyWife

but for the money going to acorn and renewing arrow law text and giving the kitchen sink to the lowest bidder. Yep, that is going to really, really make a dent in the economic situation

Um, that is what I said. What you will see is a run on equities until we all understand what crap is in this bill. And, they are not giving the kitchen sink to the lowest bidder. You should understand what a reverse auction is, and what the securities are that are being auctioned before assuming...these banks are carrying these assets at an inflated value. If they sell them at a much lower value (Their true value), there will be a bunch more write-offs...therefore this is no fix.

121 jetprop  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:27pm

re: #109 alien_mind

it is so sickening to listen to them praise each other like they have just done something heroic. they added 150 billion and about 3-4 hundred pages. great stuff guys! where would we be without you.

how can they stand there and praise Dodd and frank over and over.

Makes me want to hurl. Dodd/Frank f###ed it up in the first place.

122 SteveRogers  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:29pm

I don't believe that the sensible conservatives in the House, led by Mike Pence, will approve the Senate bill that has more pork than the last bill they voted on.

And the MSM will continue to call them "far right."
Idiots!
Anymore, the only journalist that knows what is going on here is Neil Cavuto.

123 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:37pm

Supposedly there are specific tax cuts for manufacturers of wooden arrows.

What?

124 USA  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:45pm

And they have the gall to congratulate themselves!
Vote out every one of these idiots.

125 chip.litch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:56pm

I was mad about this now I am pretty much disheartened. I don't know what to think anymore.

126 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:49:57pm

re: #47 Killian Bundy

/Democrats Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Economic Crisis

McCain needs to turn that footage - that historical fact - into a campaign ad.
NOW.

127 right_in_canada  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:00pm

re: #83 Joe Six Pack

Last time I saw this much pork, Rosie O'Donnell was still on "The View".

Four cackling hens and a pig!

/Sincerest apologies to pigs

128 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:06pm

re: #112 FrogMarch

This show boat of bullshit is how the democrats manipulate the media into believing they are off the hook.

no way - the demos got us into this mess - they need to pay.

McCAIN VOTED AYE. Are u listening?

129 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:20pm

re: #81 Irene NYC

Reid and co are talking about the bill. McCain is nowhere to be seen.

Doesn't want to be seen after voting for that? I don't blame him!

130 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:24pm

Listening to this shit I want to puke.

131 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:30pm

Let me see, the Congress creates a monstrous financial disaster, accumulated through years of collective malignant self-serving legislation that takes the nation to the brink of bankruptcy - and then goes on TV to congratulate itself on its bipartisan wisdom!

Stinking, stinking bastids one and all.

132 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:37pm

I tried to read it and find Acorn the slush fund, where did they hide it?

133 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:47pm

No, I am still with McCain. If Obama wins this is just the beginning.

134 Luigi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:50:54pm

Next time the US government tries to sell some paper any buyer will be looking at it in a different light.

Lehman Brothers, in existence since the 1860's until last week, committed a sin. And that sin was not greed. It was trusting the paper the US government sold. Lehman, Merrill -- these were the crown jewels of American financial power. But that was before Barack Obama and their friends. If this is what Obama has done to us before he is even elected, imagine the potential his presidency holds.

135 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:20pm

Any links to the actual bill? Anyone?

136 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:22pm

re: #110 JacksonTn

Does Dodd have pictures of these guys with hookers or something? Why are they praising him.

In Barney Fwank's case, it would be teenage male hookers.

137 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:45pm

Just a reminder - the House cannot change one iota of this bill before they vote on it. It has to be passed as is, or defeated as is.

The Senate is adjourning tonight.

138 Basho  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:47pm

re: #134 Luigi

Wish I had more than one upding to give you for that post.

139 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:48pm

re: #128 Wishing

McCAIN VOTED AYE. Are u listening?

see my 92.

140 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:54pm

i'm not going to forget this, and i am outraged.

141 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:51:59pm

I weep for the future

142 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:00pm

ok, i am so upset with this mess..McCain has proven himself to be no different than the rest. I gotta get away from this PC
lol am tearing hair out

143 Reno911  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:04pm

re: #119 lifeofthemind

Pretty sure the courts have struck it down.

Line item Veto?

Yeah, it passed...right along with term limits.

Jeez.

144 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:04pm

re: #98 cblesz

Chris Dodd ought to be in prison...what the fuck?

Look at it this way, once Obama wins the election, we can start calling for independent prosecutors at every turn. For example. it is now apparently illegal to fire US attorneys (appointees) and appoint your own attorneys. So, let's see what happens when barry does the same thing every president does, and Bush is being investigated for. If the stakes are increased, he might end up in prison.

145 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:05pm

I think McCain needs to man up and speak now tonight.

146 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:06pm

re: #135 spirochete

Any links to the actual bill? Anyone?


Isn't this it?
[Link: senateconservatives.files.wordpress.com...]

147 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:23pm

I am so out of here for the night. Think some of the things I like to cling to need some attention.

And no. it's not a bible or my Wife.

L8R

148 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:25pm

My rep, McCaul is against, but I'm still calling his office locally and in DC...just to let him know how against this I am.

149 jopa416  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:36pm

re: #112 FrogMarch

This show boat of bullshit is how the democrats manipulate the media into believing they are off the hook.

no way - the demos got us into this mess - they need to pay.

The problem is that Republicans don't stand up and say what the truth is so they end up looking guilty.

So pissed about this.

One funny thing though, a democrat friend of mine said he would become a republican if dems supported this bill. LOL ! I doubt that he will keep his word.

150 jcm  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:39pm

re: #107 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Slow down there, stud... only one to a customer.

ROFLMAO!

Tell that to those congress critters!

151 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:52:54pm
152 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:04pm

An appropriate photo.

153 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:09pm

re: #135 spirochete

[Link: cspan.org...]

154 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:13pm

re: #146 lifeofthemind

Isn't this it?
[Link: senateconservatives.files.wordpress.com. ..]

Looks like it, thanks. Jeez, 451 pages.

155 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:15pm

re: #133 JacksonTn

No, I am still with McCain. If Obama wins this is just the beginning.

Yeah, I gotta go there to. If he voted no, there'd already be Zero commercials out there saying he didn't step up and the MSM would hammer him for the next 5 weeks for not joining Zero in saving the country.

156 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:15pm

re: #106 Wishing

I certainly have no hope of that. McCAIN didnt have the balls to vote NO.
He is as hypocritical as the rest...I am utterly disgusted, and at this point i could care less who wins the damn election: same empty suits, all of em.

I am starting to recall why everyone thought McCain sucked in the fist place. His balls have been removed.

157 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:40pm

re: #97 Reno911

Well, the good news is we found about John McCain before he took office.

Good effort John, you almost had me.

sad frigging day for all vets.

/McCain said he loved us.


frigging sad


later.

158 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:45pm

re: #92 FrogMarch

He had to. Despite my exasperation - this thing probably had to happen.
Let the democrats back-slap each other - self-congratulatory fools. They can own this.

Why, praytell, did McCain HAVE TO vote Aye? So the bill would PASS? hahahhahahha

159 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:49pm

Oh, shut up Skeletor!

160 right_in_canada  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:53:50pm

re: #135 spirochete

Any links to the actual bill? Anyone?


Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller's Day Off ?

/trying to lighten dreary mood

161 guzziguy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:02pm

re: #126 FrogMarch

McCain needs to turn that footage - that historical fact - into a campaign ad.
NOW.

Hell, he just voted to continue it.

162 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:04pm

none of these losers had the balls to stop this bs. turning the mortgage industry into a giant welfare system.
they wanted to be nice. wtf.
and now we get to be nice. kicking and screaming to the adjective.
lots of bad people made money on this scam.
we need to know who.

163 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:10pm

re: #123 astronmr20

Supposedly there are specific tax cuts for manufacturers of wooden arrows.

What?

yeah, there were also some provisions for Jamaican Rum (i'm not kidding)
and something called wool research!

WTF, do they think that stuff makes it an easier sell?
how does that stuff help the credit situation.

164 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:12pm

re: #150 jcm

ROFLMAO!

Tell that to those congress critters!

Every freaking day.

165 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:15pm

re: #133 JacksonTn

No, I am still with McCain. If Obama wins this is just the beginning.

True

166 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:23pm

re: #105 lifeofthemind

I don't want to drink alone and right now I'd like to drink with friends. Virtually speaking this is a cherry on a cake.

I have a special bottle of Glenfiddich 21. I'm pouring as I type. You in the neighborhood?

167 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:28pm

LIZARDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM

168 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:54:31pm

re: #131 The Shadow Do

Let me see, the Congress creates a monstrous financial disaster, accumulated through years of collective malignant self-serving legislation that takes the nation to the brink of bankruptcy - and then goes on TV to congratulate itself on its bipartisan wisdom!

Stinking, stinking bastids one and all.

The average American is just short-sighted enough to actually swallow the swill Congress is trying to sell.

169 Luigi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:55:01pm

Thanks, Basho.

170 FloridaAnole  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:55:11pm

re: #60 Palandine

What's the deal with the house.gov server? I have dial-up, but I can't get through.

If they've shut down comments so they don't have to be burdened by what their constituents think, that's a terrible precedent to set.

The server probably went down under the weight of 60 quintillion angry calls from citizens.

171 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:55:37pm

Where'd all these Bob Barr supporters come from all the sudden?

172 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:55:39pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

dingy Harry and Chirs DOdd think they are at the Oscars?

wtf

seriously, i thought dingy was going to shed some tears there for a second.

173 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:55:48pm

The Beltway talking point is now that opposition in the House has softened and that public opposition is softening, too.

Kindly disabuse Washington of that notion: 202-224-3121.

My two senators split. Martinez (R) voted for the bail out monstrosity...Bill Nelson (D) voted against the bail out. Martinez is also the one that ignored his people he swore to represent and voted for Amnesty last year. He's toast. He's up for reelection next year and my money will go to his opponent no matter who they are and no matter what party. I EXPECT my Representatives to obey and vote the will of their constituents. Come November, clean house on the house and senate.

Man I am P.O.'d!

174 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:55:52pm

Well, the voice mail box of the local congressional Republican who voted againt it is full, so hopefully that's a good sign.

I left a polite message with my own representative, a dem who voted for the last bill, reminding him it's election time and urging him to vote againt the bailout. I've done what I can.

This bill is a fraud. The collapse happened on Monday when Congress was screwing around with it. The market's been okay the past three days. There won't be any collapse. Just get rid of mark to market.

175 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:56:22pm

re: #168 FurryOldGuyJeans

The average American is just short-sighted enough to actually swallow the swill Congress McCain is trying to sell.

Fixt.

176 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:56:32pm

So does everyone who got a regular mortgage, makes their payments on time, pay all of their taxes, put the maximum in their 401k, and set aside cash for emergencies get anything out of this?

Oh yeah, the big Congress-finger.

177 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:56:43pm

re: #168 FurryOldGuyJeans

The average American is just short-sighted enough to actually swallow the swill Congress is trying to sell.

Yes, the MSM and hollywood live lavish types have done their jobs well. Thanks teachers unions. Thanks Dan Rather, thanks all.

Sure, we can live high on the hog and have no responsibilities whatsoever.

178 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:56:57pm

hasn't everybody's gramma told them that money doesn't grow on trees?

179 jcm  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:01pm

re: #152 OldLineTexan

An appropriate photo.

That's a keeper, in fact I think I'll mail it to the WA delegation.

180 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:03pm

re: #171 Dar ul Harb

Where'd all these Bob Barr supporters come from all the sudden?

hahahahhahah THANK YOU! You made me laugh!

181 palco  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:25pm

Whose administration?

Here’s an excerpt from a New York Times article on Sept 30th, 1999 by Steven Holmes.
“In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

182 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:31pm

re: #154 spirochete

Looks like it, thanks. Jeez, 451 pages.

Bon apetite mon amie. May I suggest an amusing Riesling to go on topic?

183 JacksonTn  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:40pm

Obama's team already has the papers printed for war crimes against Bush. Don't think that crap will not happen if Obama gets in. This is bad tonight but it is only the beginning if Obama gets in.

184 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:41pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

dingy Harry and Chirs DOdd think they are at the Oscars?

wtf

did those assholes thank us?

185 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:57:58pm

re: #152 OldLineTexan

What you got against chimps?

186 DesertSage  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:58:07pm

This just reminds me too much of the 1930's and the Hitler youth:

Youtube Video

187 Defogger  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:58:15pm

The Republicans in the House had better ALL vote 'no' even if they lose the vote. Bush should veto it, without hesitation, and say to Congress, "Clean bill or no bill. Period."
Come to think of it, no bill would be better!

188 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:58:17pm

Nothing more than a gang rape of the average American by their government.

189 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:58:38pm

re: #176 unclassifiable

So does everyone who got a regular mortgage, makes their payments on time, pay all of their taxes, put the maximum in their 401k, and set aside cash for emergencies get anything out of this?

Oh yeah, the big Congress-finger.


Well, they can now default, with impunity.

I think that I will try to buy a house. Screw the fact that I am scrimping together the downpayment....give me my f'ing house Uncle Sam!

190 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:58:53pm

re: #178 nyc redneck

hasn't everybody's gramma told them that money doesn't grow on trees?

Apparently, it grows on your neighbors.

Note the lack of an apostrophe. I don't mean people think it grows on their neighbor's trees. It is their neighbors that they are plucking.

191 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:59:13pm

re: #178 nyc redneck

hasn't everybody's gramma told them that money doesn't grow on trees?

Only the trees in Washington D.C.

192 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:59:16pm

Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their sties with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon.

- George Harrison (The Beatles)

193 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:59:37pm

re: #175 Wishing

My statement needed no fixing, thank you very much. McCain is only one of those culpable in this travesty.

194 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:59:38pm

This is the modern day Smoot Hawley. The big fix destined to do more harm than good.

195 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:59:52pm

Will this ongoing congressional fiasco translate into losses for any incumbents?

It should, but I tend to doubt it.

196 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:08pm

re: #188 Perplexed

Nothing more than a gang rape of the average American by their government.


And I didn;t even get a kiss first!

197 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:10pm

re: #168 FurryOldGuyJeans

The average American is just short-sighted enough to actually swallow the swill Congress is trying to sell.

I don't think so. There is enough time for the truth to will out. Average Americans are usually capable of sorting out the crap in the system. I trust they will figure this one out too.

198 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:20pm

The demos just took our money to relieve themselves from responsibility.

We probably had to do this to stop a huge financial credit melt down.
It's total BS - and the fact that it's written by Dodd and 145 pages thick is just typical of our political "leaders".

congress members who are up for re-election voted no - which I actually think is spineless. even though I want the whole thing trashed and I don't trust the damn "bailout" package. It's Orwellian and twisted.

199 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:37pm

Waiting for 3 wood to chime in.

200 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:40pm

re: #137 Intrepid

Just a reminder - the House cannot change one iota of this bill before they vote on it. It has to be passed as is, or defeated as is.

The Senate is adjourning tonight.

Actually, I believe they can. Then the House and senate would have to meet in committee to resolve their differences and agree to them before the bill is sent to GWB for his yea or nea.

201 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:46pm

re: #166 Irene NYC

I have a special bottle of Glenfiddich 21. I'm pouring as I type. You in the neighborhood?


Only if the neighborhood is centrally located between two airports within a stroll of the Sears in the Boro of homz and cemeteries.

202 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:47pm

When you hear anyone talk about the "right" to housing, medical care, or anything else that costs money and must be produced, they are talking about someone having the right to force someone else to work to produce it for them.

That's slavery, and outlawed in this land, if I recall correctly.

203 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:00:53pm

And keep in mind, the Dems who voted it down did so because there wasn't enough pork in it for them.

204 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:02pm

re: #180 Wishing

hahahahhahah THANK YOU! You made me laugh!

I was going to say Obama supporters, but Bob Barr is funnier.

205 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:06pm

re: #128 Wishing

McCAIN VOTED AYE. Are u listening?

McCain has been on board for a bailout from the beginning. Voting No on something he has been pushing for this hard is political suicide, the Obama campaign would eat his lunch over it, including dessert.

This bill gets passed with or without him, and since Obama voted for it as well, the issue is a push. Obama may as well as helped write it now. Any criticism by The One about this is now easily countered, with a "then why did you vote for it?"

Now the fun begins. Root causes and who saw this coming and tried to do something about it, versus who saw this coming and took money from FM/FM to stop any reforms and cover the problems.

206 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:11pm

re: #175 Wishing

Fixt.

I see MDS is alive and well.

207 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:13pm

Did anyone else notice the section of the bill requiring Sarah Palin to memorize all the foreclosed mortagages and which county they are in prior to her getting her paycheck each month when she becomes VP?

208 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:27pm

OINK OINK

...WHAT THEY NEED'S A DAMN GOOD WHACKING!"

209 Salem  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:27pm

Heck of a way to begin the final month. If McCain hadn't voted for it, I'd say wait and see how the public reacted. *sigh*

I'm just going to come out and say it. I hate McCain. He's the candidate the media picked out for us.

210 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:36pm

re: #193 FurryOldGuyJeans

My statement needed no fixing, thank you very much. McCain is only one of those culpable in this travesty.

only ONE of those? um, I was planning on voting for the *maverick* who hated *pork barrel spending* You are right, he is only ONE of those who are culpable, but he just proved his own culpability.
Nuff said.

211 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:42pm

re: #195 Dar ul Harb

Will this ongoing congressional fiasco translate into losses for any incumbents? It should, but I tend to doubt it.

This below started as a response to Lizard Thanos last night. I cleaned it up a bit and expanded on my theme. It address what Dar ul Hard is stating above.

---

I don't consider myself a nihilist in the pure sense of the word, but I will admit I recently have started to adopt some level of nihilism in my personal philosophy.

And it may do this country some good if more of John Q. Public started to consider adding a little nihilism to the mix. It’s healthy, in my opinion.

I think our love affair with this political party or that political party should be over. Yes, it feels good to be behind the winner, or work earnestly for the loser and turn the country around, but in my opinion, that task has become similar to chasing rainbows.

Sure, down here in the trenches, it feels really good to think that we are fulfilling all of those democratic principles by working for this candidate or that candidate, but that is only an exercise designed to keep us occupied and busy.

We know that special interest groups, Pac’s and big business donates funds to both sides of competing political thoughts. Well, why the hell do you think they do that? Because, in that way, they are going to have their hand up that politicians rear, pulling the strings, no matter what party that politician comes from.

Meanwhile, the real power brokers (who, let me give you a clue, are not us) are playing us for fools. And no, I'm not talking about the One World Order bull, I'm talking about the fact that our politicians are the bag men for the special interest lobby. It doesn't take some deeply entrenched conspiracy to make this all work. There’s not some multi-webbed clandestine plan to take over the world. It’s much more simple than that. Big business will do anything to advance their empire, and we are simply the money producing fodder for their addiction.

Big business wants to make big money, at any expense, and they don't care who they steamroll in that quest. We know this, we feel this, we hope it's not true, but we know it is.

What can we do. Vote as many of them out as we can. Look at the ballots. If there is a freshman politician looking for a seat in Washington, vote for that person. If there are two incumbents on the ballot, check out their tenure in DC and vote for the one that has been there the shortest amount of time. Do this across party lines. Our battle is not partisan, it is against the whole entrenched system.

We can't stop this in one fell swoop, and the new blood that we send to DC may have to be removed later by us, but we can punch enough holes in their system to slow them down. Sort of political speed bumps. And after we slow them down, then maybe we can work on real change. The incumbents need to be fired.

Until then, while we keep playing partisan games, we are playing right into their hands, giving them all the room they need to continue to screw us.

A little nihilism, think about it.

212 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:01:50pm

re: #201 lifeofthemind

Only if the neighborhood is centrally located between two airports within a stroll of the Sears in the Boro of homz and cemeteries.

Alas no. But we should try to put together a meeting of NYC lizards - perhaps November 4?

213 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:02:01pm

re: #202 Silhouette

When you hear anyone talk about the "right" to housing, medical care, or anything else that costs money and must be produced, they are talking about someone having the right to force someone else to work to produce it for them.

That's slavery, and outlawed in this land, if I recall correctly.

That's progressive socialism. on the rise in this land.
unfortunately.

214 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:02:02pm

re: #152 OldLineTexan

An appropriate photo.

You just insulted chimpanzees.

/Apologize.

215 Wilderstad  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:02:09pm

re: #198 FrogMarch

You said it, and then some.

216 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:02:30pm

re: #185 Mich-again

What you got against chimps?

From what I know of chimps, it's appropriate.

But I apologize to the hard-working chimps in honest zoos, circuses, and kinky Thai massage parlors around the world. You do not deserve to be demeaned with a comparison to the United States Senate.

217 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:03:14pm

re: #204 Dar ul Harb

I was going to say Obama supporters, but Bob Barr is funnier.

Agree...right now i could sqwish Mac like a bug under my shoe, but no WAY could i endorse that commie Zero

218 Defogger  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:03:25pm

re: #200 Joe Six Pack

Actually, I believe they can. Then the House and senate would have to meet in committee to resolve their differences and agree to them before the bill is sent to GWB for his yea or nea.

That's correct.

219 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:03:29pm

The world is going to hell in a handbasket.

This is for every fricking twit in DC.

Humph.

220 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:03:41pm

Roll call just came up on Senate.gov

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

221 GeeWiz  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:03:50pm

IMHO, Dodd & Frank should be scorned, not praised. I live in CT and I'm ashamed to admit that Dodd is my senator. The only time I would cheer Mr. Dodd is when he is wearing an orange jump-suit. He is a major POS!

222 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:03:54pm

if this bill goes through, and god forbid if barry ends up cheating his way to the presidency, i predict a replay of the 1994 election in 2010 when Republicans sweep in with all new people, a throw-out-the bums mentality, like Newt did with the contract with America.
Clintons election led to the house and senate being turned over to the Republicans, I expect a big upheaval in congress two years from now.

223 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:04:09pm

re: #196 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

And I didn;t even get a kiss first!

I do believe I will probably get the G-D common courtesy of a reach-around. After all, Barney Frank is involved.

224 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:04:15pm

Oh for Pete's sake!

If McCain voted against this, you guys don't think 0bama wouldn't have had a field day?! McCain might as well have handed 0bama his own head on a silver platter. Does the bill suck? Yeah- but voting against it would have made political hay for 0bama.

225 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:04:16pm

I'm gonna go kiss my kids and tuck them into bed.

Then I'm gonna get a little tipsy and have a hot bath.

Night lizards!

226 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:04:40pm

"Every day Congress meets we lose a little bit of our liberty."

- Mark Levin

227 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:04:57pm

re: #219 Catttt

The world is going to hell in a handbasket.

This is for every fricking twit in DC.

Humph.

High 5's Cat!

228 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:05:29pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

Oh for Pete's sake!

If McCain voted against this, you guys don't think 0bama wouldn't have had a field day?! McCain might as well have handed 0bama his own head on a silver platter. Does the bill suck? Yeah- but voting against it would have made political hay for 0bama.

Yup.

229 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:05:36pm

re: #223 OldLineTexan

I do believe I will probably get the G-D common courtesy of a reach-around. After all, Barney Frank is involved.


Well, you have man parts....

230 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:05:36pm

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---74
Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burr (R-NC)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)

Nays
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sanders (I-VT)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Vitter (R-LA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Wyden (D-OR)


Not Voting - 1
Kennedy (D-MA)

231 Luigi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:05:40pm

Futures fall off a cliff on the news...

[Link: money.cnn.com...]

232 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:05:47pm

McCain lost my vote tonight....screw him and all the Washington crowd...my mission is to vote against any and all incumbents in Washington. I've had it with my Representatives ignoring the will of the people over and over again.

233 Capitalistincharge  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:05:49pm

These politicians..all of them...have broken the public trust. Period. They all need to go. I will not give one more freaking dime to any politician, political party or lobbiest group going forward. With this bailout, which represents gross mismanagement of the public trust, they are "making me" pay. I am beginning to believe the politicians are on the same level as child molesters. I resent, more than I can describe, how dumb these pols think Americans are.

234 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:08pm

re: #212 Irene NYC

Alas no. But we should try to put together a meeting of NYC lizards - perhaps November 4?

That's an idea. I was thinking of poll watching, pays a little better than unemployment. But pencil me in. Tomorrow I'm meeting a friend for brunch then walking over to see the Intrepid come back.

235 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:12pm

It's official! We are now a communist country! There is now no difference between the US and North Korea! None whatsoever!

////

236 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:19pm

I see "studying mark to market" I see "authority to suspend mark to market". I don't see "eliminating mark to market."

237 nightintheruts  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:22pm

re: #5 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition...

I'll take the 12 gauge for my pistol-grip pump, thanks.
May need it to go vote.

238 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:48pm

I feel like I am watching Captain Pickard with a mechanical eyeball. McCain just lost the one edge he had - "never votes for pork". Now the dems can call bullshit - you voted for our pork - you are one of us now.

McCain has been absorbed by the Borg.

239 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:51pm

re: #210 Wishing

So far nothing he has done has been a surprise to me. He is about as un-conservative as GWB has been, maverick or not.

240 Basho  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:06:52pm

re: #235 Occasional Reader

It's official! We are now a communist country! There is now no difference between the US and North Korea! None whatsoever!

////

ROFL!

241 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:00pm

re: #35 FloridaAnole

Damn. Crappity crap crap crap. I hope somebody will strip all the pork out of the mess before we turn a substantial fraction of our GNP over to Paulson.


Think that's bad. Think about who Obama would put in as Treasury Sec.

/Not that I have any idea who it would be, but there's no way in h*** it'd be a good choice

242 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:04pm

re: #220 Silhouette

Both my senators are midgets. Literally. I've met them. SHORT people.

Nya nya nya.

/meaningless, non-pc rant.

243 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:14pm

re: #226 freedombilly

"Every day Congress meets we lose a little bit of our liberty."

- Mark Levin

I tried to argue with a Lib yesterday (big mistake)... he finally concluded that the "government is us and if we no longer believe that, then the country is lost."

I didn't know where to go with that one...

244 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:17pm

re: #209 Salem

Heck of a way to begin the final month. If McCain hadn't voted for it, I'd say wait and see how the public reacted. *sigh*

I'm just going to come out and say it. I hate McCain. He's the candidate the media picked out for us.

BINGO!

245 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:19pm

re: #232 Random63

McCain lost my vote tonight....screw him and all the Washington crowd...my mission is to vote against any and all incumbents in Washington. I've had it with my Representatives ignoring the will of the people over and over again.

Please see my #211 which addresses what you just said. (Yea, I'm comment pimping for myself).

246 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:20pm

Nummy-num-num.

247 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:27pm

The stock market lost almost 800 points after the house bill went down last week, and the only reason it hasn't tanked worse than that is the hope that the Senate would pass some sort of bill. That happened tonight.

I don't like the pork added to this monstrosity - I mean, come on! Wooden Arrows? Caribbean Rum? Wool Studies? NASCAR tracks? - but the hopes of its passing has been the only stem against the tide of a major crash.

And after the injection of hundreds of billions of dollars these past few days, it still ended up in negative territory today. It was only about 20 down, but with that massive of an injection of funds, it only served to slow down the decline.

Now the McCain camp needs to go on a major offensive and skewer Obama with all his FM/FM buddies who have been and still are his advisers. Blame the whole thing on Obama, no matter that he was only a teenager when the whole FM/FM creation started.

IT IS ALL BARACK OBAMA'S FRIENDS' FAULT THAT WE HAD TO EVEN VOTE ON THIS BILL!

Hit 'em often and hit 'em hard. Knock Obama so hard and so low he'll have to stand on a step ladder just to kiss John McCain's ass!

Fight! Fight! Fight!

MCCAIN/PALIN '08

248 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:49pm

re: #211 Walter L. Newton

This below started as a response to Lizard Thanos last night. I cleaned it up a bit and expanded on my theme. It address what Dar ul Hard is stating above.

Dar ul Hard. I like that.

I wonder what Mrs. Harb thinks. *nudge nudge wink wink say no more*

249 SummerSong  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:07:56pm

Included are incentives for renewable energy?

Gawd...

250 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:02pm

Anyone else sense a pitchforks and torches moment, or is it just me?

251 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:03pm

Out of the palace, and into the ditch!

252 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:05pm

re: #195 Dar ul Harb

Will this ongoing congressional fiasco translate into losses for any incumbents?

It should, but I tend to doubt it.

Agreed because we won't find out that the fix was bad until next year with those Mofo's will want 2 Trillion to fix it.

253 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:11pm

re: #194 Mich-again

This is the modern day Smoot Hawley. The big fix destined to do more harm than good.

No. This is not Smoot-Hawley. Obama's determined to give us the New S-H, but that's some ways down the road.

254 looking closely  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:15pm

re: #69 Freedom Ben

So if the fed is taking care of the liquidity problem, then is the bailout bill just creating an artificial price floor to "stabilize" the market? And if our tax dollars are used to set a price higher then the market is willing to pay, wouldn't that by definition mean that we're getting ripped off?

Not necessarily.
Injecting capital may end the panic, and re-inflate the market.
Think of it as bursting a reverse bubble.
But this depends on what price is being paid and for what, obviously.

255 ArmyWife  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:15pm

re: #225 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Good plan. The younger one is asleep - the oldest is reading with her faithful chihuahuas by her side - I can't get tipsy as I have to work tomorrow, but AH brought home cheesecake so I am going to eat it, in bed I think.

Night.

256 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:26pm

re: #243 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

I tried to argue with a Lib yesterday (big mistake)... he finally concluded that the "government is us and if we no longer believe that, then the country is lost."

I didn't know where to go with that one...

How about to a bar without the lib?

257 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:48pm

re: #220 Silhouette

Cantwell voted NAY?!? The Apocalypse has begun!

258 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:08:56pm

re: #235 Occasional Reader

It's official! We are now a communist country! There is now no difference between the US and North Korea! None whatsoever!

////

Shhhh! Dear Leader isn't in the White House yet.

259 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:03pm

re: #209 Salem

Heck of a way to begin the final month. If McCain hadn't voted for it, I'd say wait and see how the public reacted. *sigh*

I'm just going to come out and say it. I hate McCain. He's the candidate the media picked out for us.

boloney

260 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:07pm

Special IRS rules for those losing their shirts with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stock....

261 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:10pm

re: #242 Catttt

Both my senators are midgets. Literally. I've met them. SHORT people.

If they are above 5'1", they look tall to me.

262 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:37pm

what kind of feel good morons would let this phony give away go on until it ground to a halt and then everyone who caused it has pulled their pockets inside out w/ nothing to show?
now they look around at us. we didn't do anything.
our elected officials should have stopped this long ago. you don't force banks to give loans to people who have NO WAY of paying back the money.
under the guise of doing 'business'.

263 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:47pm

re: #238 Racer X

I feel like I am watching Captain Pickard with a mechanical eyeball. McCain just lost the one edge he had - "never votes for pork". Now the dems can call bullshit - you voted for our pork - you are one of us now.

McCain has been absorbed by the Borg.

And if he'd voted against this, he'd be just as tarred by the 0bama-biden team.

264 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:51pm

re: #239 FurryOldGuyJeans

So far nothing he has done has been a surprise to me. He is about as un-conservative as GWB has been, maverick or not.

Well, i think for a lot of us, it was McCain or we end up with worse case scenario with the commie...But at this point, i am going to take my vote, fry it up with some oil and garlic and feed it to my dog.

265 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:09:59pm

I've annotated the key issues of the bill, which includes three major subparts.

The first is the actual bailout bill. It runs about 110 pages or so, of which most relates to oversight and tangential issues.

The second portion relates to tax extenders and various amendments to the IRC.

AMT relief provisions are addressed.

So is the mental health provisions; the Wellstone/Domenici package.

Finally, there's disaster relief for Hurricane Ike and the Midwest flooding.

266 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:03pm

re: #255 ArmyWife

Good plan. The younger one is asleep - the oldest is reading with her faithful chihuahuas by her side - I can't get tipsy as I have to work tomorrow, but AH brought home cheesecake so I am going to eat it, in bed I think.

Night.


Tipsy is why Tylenol was invented.

Enjoy your cheesecake though! I'm jealous!

267 Cartman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:18pm

Come on, let's not be so hard on our elected representatives. After all, we really can't possibly understand the intricacies of this legislation. That's not our job, right? That's what we sent them to Washington for, right? We need to trust that they will do what's best for America!

/*Giant FART*/

268 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:20pm

Lost:

Need assistance ASAP! I seem to have lost my balls. Please contact me at jmccaindotcom if you find them.

269 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:33pm

re: #176 unclassifiable

So does everyone who got a regular mortgage, makes their payments on time, pay all of their taxes, put the maximum in their 401k, and set aside cash for emergencies get anything out of this?

Oh yeah, the big Congress-finger.

Yes. We get to pay for those who didn't. :(

270 Han_Solo  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:37pm

McCain just blew a HUGE opportunity.


He could have had a HUGE AMOUNT of fun if he would have voted "PRESENT", and just dared anyone in the press to point it out.


That would have been a very fun news cycle.

271 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:41pm

re: #251 MandyManners

Out of the palace, and into the ditch!

Didn't know you were a Krokus fan Mandy.
I'd post a YouTube link to Eat The Rich, but it's blocked at work.

272 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:44pm

re: #212 Irene NYC

Alas no. But we should try to put together a meeting of NYC lizards - perhaps November 4?

I think we have something else to do on November 4th...

Unless you mean later in the evening. (:

273 KZnextzone  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:57pm

450 pages times senate, house and press....what National Forest was culled for this?
So much for the paper work reduction act!

274 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:10:58pm

...carbon mitigation provisions?

275 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:11:00pm

re: #205 CyanSnowHawk

McCain has been on board for a bailout from the beginning. Voting No on something he has been pushing for this hard is political suicide, the Obama campaign would eat his lunch over it, including dessert.

This bill gets passed with or without him, and since Obama voted for it as well, the issue is a push. Obama may as well as helped write it now. Any criticism by The One about this is now easily countered, with a "then why did you vote for it?"

Now the fun begins. Root causes and who saw this coming and tried to do something about it, versus who saw this coming and took money from FM/FM to stop any reforms and cover the problems.

But we only have 4 four weeks,

not enough time.

Many Americans are like sheep,
they will herd into any pen that has food.

276 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:11:04pm

re: #263 Sharmuta

And if he'd voted against this, he'd be just as tarred by the 0bama-biden team.

I know.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

277 nightintheruts  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:11:42pm

re: #246 MandyManners

Nummy-num-num.


oh man...that was one of my favorites!

love the Mad Max outfits!

278 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:11:47pm

re: #265 lawhawk

Can't they address these issues in individual measures? Why must each bill be a ragout?

279 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:11:57pm

re: #260 spirochete

Special IRS rules for those losing their shirts with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stock....


Are you freakin' kidding me?

Dang it . . . I'm a CPA . . . more IRS regulations . . . as if we don't already have enough.

280 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:04pm

re: #220 Silhouette

Roll call just came up on Senate.gov

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

Sanders (VT-Socialist), voted no, and he had the only amendment? That dude is weird. Vermont is weird.

281 SonOfLiberty  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:05pm

I watched the roll call. And Harry Reid spouting right before it. I am so spitting mad over this. I've had to pause every couple of seconds to delete cuss words.

Jim DeMint, on the very unlikely chance that you read this, GOD BLESS YOU, SENATOR.

282 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:06pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

Oh for Pete's sake!

If McCain voted against this, you guys don't think 0bama wouldn't have had a field day?! McCain might as well have handed 0bama his own head on a silver platter. Does the bill suck? Yeah- but voting against it would have made political hay for 0bama.

thank u.

283 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:09pm

re: #256 freedombilly

How about to a bar without the lib?

Way ahead of you. {hick}

284 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:11pm

HA! Dow futures are down.

285 N_Jones  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:15pm

re: #21 lifeofthemind

For that which we are about to receive we thank thee Lord.

Character? Movie?

The father of the Angel Family - Judge Dread?

286 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:18pm

re: #232 Random63

McCain lost my vote tonight....screw him and all the Washington crowd...my mission is to vote against any and all incumbents in Washington. I've had it with my Representatives ignoring the will of the people over and over again.

Convert your cash to gold and bury it in your back yard. All will be well.

287 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:37pm

re: #264 Wishing

Well, i think for a lot of us, it was McCain or we end up with worse case scenario with the commie...But at this point, i am going to take my vote, fry it up with some oil and garlic and feed it to my dog.

As much as I am not a McCain booster that is the absolutely last thing I will be doing. I will be doing my Constitutional duty as a citizen of the United States to vote on November 4th 2008 for the people I deem best to fill the positions they are running for.

288 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:48pm

re: #273 KZnextzone

450 pages times senate, house and press....what National Forest was culled for this?
So much for the paper work reduction act!

The really shitty thing about the waste of paper is that most of the senators didn't have time to read the damn thing...for all we know they could have voted to make us a colony of Great Britian!

289 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:12:54pm

re: #235 Occasional Reader

It's official! We are now a communist country! There is now no difference between the US and North Korea! None whatsoever!

////

/Well, Kim Jong Il does have an IPOD.

290 readytofight  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:02pm

Maybe the house will literally burn down.

291 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:09pm

'Night all. Let's see what tomorrow brings.

292 Castlebravo  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:12pm

I don't have time to go back and re-read to see if this has already been mentioned. But don't all bills requiring spending money HAVE to originate in the House of Representatives? In other words, IF the house votes to pass, and IF the President signs the bill, it would still be UNconstitutional.

Anyone? Can anybody tell me how I can challenge the Constitutionality of this thing if it gets that far? I'm taking my Heritage Guide to the Constitution to work with me to double check. I'll check back on this post in the morning.

CHeers,
Castlebravo.....

Gotta go, late for work.

293 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:20pm

re: #200 Joe Six Pack

Actually, I believe they can. Then the House and senate would have to meet in committee to resolve their differences and agree to them before the bill is sent to GWB for his yea or nea.

I heard different on Fox - the bill was passed in the Senate with a different procedure, as there were no hearings, no committee meetings, no initial votes. That's why it had to pass by 60 votes and not just a simple majority.

And Neil Cavuto just said the house had to pass it as is.

294 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:41pm

Doesn't mean I won't go fishing with the man - or vote for him - but I am pissed.

295 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:44pm

re: #255 ArmyWife

Good plan. The younger one is asleep - the oldest is reading with her faithful chihuahuas by her side - I can't get tipsy as I have to work tomorrow, but AH brought home cheesecake so I am going to eat it, in bed I think.

I brought home Krispy Kreme doughnuts.

The cutest thing was the cashier from New York explaining them to me. I've had Krispy Kreme from my cradle. What's he gonna explain next to me, NASCAR?

296 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:55pm
297 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:13:57pm

the wooden arrow industry will sleep soundly tonight.

298 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:14:07pm

re: #261 Silhouette

If they are above 5'1", they look tall to me.

You're not short - you're petite.

Ben is probably 5 feet 3, would be my guess. He makes ME feel tall, and I'm 5 feet 6.

Barbara is shorter than you. I'd give her 4 feet 11 at a stretch.

299 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:14:18pm

...

so will there be a separate bill presented to bail out the European banks?

300 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:14:49pm

re: #286 The Shadow Do

Convert your cash to gold and bury it in your back yard. All will be well.

F** that, give it to me.

301 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:14:50pm

re: #292 Castlebravo

I don't have time to go back and re-read to see if this has already been mentioned. But don't all bills requiring spending money HAVE to originate in the House of Representatives? In other words, IF the house votes to pass, and IF the President signs the bill, it would still be UNconstitutional.

Anyone? Can anybody tell me how I can challenge the Constitutionality of this thing if it gets that far? I'm taking my Heritage Guide to the Constitution to work with me to double check. I'll check back on this post in the morning.

CHeers,
Castlebravo.....

Gotta go, late for work.

Yes, but if the Senate has bills pending they can attach all the bills together and call for a vote.

302 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:15pm

Oh, and Corker (R-TN) voted yes. This is why I voted for Harold Ford (D-TN) in that election. At least Dole voted no.

303 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:19pm

re: #189 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

I just told a few folks to stop trying to do all those hard VaR calculations and hedge effectiveness reports and just let the government hedge their commodity deals.

304 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:26pm

re: #299 astronmr20

...

so will there be a separate bill presented to bail out the European banks?


I believe that this bill will give the Sec of the Treas power to do that with just a "consultation" (read: discussion over a cuppa).

305 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:31pm

re: #278 Silhouette

Because they appended the bailout to the tax extenders to get both passed. Neither was going to pass on their own, and it was a way of bringing the bailout package to the floor for a quick vote - parliamentary move. It's still a larded up package, because they could have deleted all the rest of the stuff in the bill, but chose not to.

306 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:32pm

re: #267 Cartman

Come on, let's not be so hard on our elected representatives. After all, we really can't possibly understand the intricacies of this legislation. That's not our job, right? That's what we sent them to Washington for, right? We need to trust that they will do what's best for America!

/*Giant FART*/

Congress will charge you with 'battery.'

307 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:38pm

re: #280 kevinmumaw

Sanders (VT-Socialist), voted no, and he had the only amendment? That dude is weird. Vermont is weird.

Interesting.
Landrieu (D-LA) (nay)- she voted to to save her behind.

Allard (R-CO) (nay) - he's retiring - this is probably his last vote in the senate - and knowing Allard- he did this on principle.

It just cements opinion that Democrats are cynical manipulators and phonies.

308 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:39pm

re: #242 Catttt

Both my senators are midgets. Literally. I've met them. SHORT people.

Nya nya nya.

/meaningless, non-pc rant.


LOL
queue short people by randy newman..

309 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:15:51pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

Oh for Pete's sake!

If McCain voted against this, you guys don't think 0bama wouldn't have had a field day?! McCain might as well have handed 0bama his own head on a silver platter. Does the bill suck? Yeah- but voting against it would have made political hay for 0bama.


As sad as it is, you're right.

OTOH, it takes his "I'm for getting rid of earmarks" schtick off the table for the next debate, since this bill is pork- and earmark-laden.

Which the more I think about it is probably a good thing. People are tired of that line, and it doesn't work for him politically anyway.

310 Chip Designer  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:01pm

This bill is full of pork. It contains provisions for paying fishermen injured by the Exxon Valdez.

311 nightintheruts  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:10pm

re: #295 Silhouette

I brought home Krispy Kreme doughnuts.

The cutest thing was the cashier from New York explaining them to me. I've had Krispy Kreme from my cradle. What's he gonna explain next to me, NASCAR?

mmmmmm, Krispy Kreme

heaven in your mouth.

312 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:17pm

‘‘(1) $20 per metric ton of qualified carbon dioxide which is—‘‘(A) captured by the taxpayer at a qualified facility, and
‘‘(B) disposed of by the taxpayer in secure
geological storage, and

313 guzziguy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:21pm

My state's delegation split on this crap. Tom Coburn, usually a good Republican, voted Yea. Right here, right now I pledge $500 to any good solid Republican who runs against him next time.

Jim Inhofe as usual is on the right side of things. He's running this time.

314 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:24pm

re: #292 Castlebravo

Um.

Well, this isn't the final bill.

I predict that the conference report will originate in the House.

(Anyone?)

315 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:29pm

re: #270 Han_Solo

McCain just blew a HUGE opportunity.


He could have had a HUGE AMOUNT of fun if he would have voted "PRESENT", and just dared anyone in the press to point it out.


That would have been a very fun news cycle.

No matter how he voted the media will be pillorying the man. That is a given with the biased media that is allowed to hide the bias and proclaim impartiality.

As much as I am not pleased with the choice I am being given to make, McCain or Obama, I do have to make the choice as a citizen of the United States and vote.

316 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:16:42pm

Here is the text of a message that Hubby (lizard ElderZionist) and I wrote and sent to our Congress-critters in the House and Senate the other day, either through email or using the contact form some of them provide at their website. We also copied Glenn Beck, Dave Ramsey and Neil Cavuto. Perhaps others will be inspired to write comparable messages from their hearts. Our financial advisor, a very upright and moral young lady (hard to believe, I know) liked it a lot.

**********

As our representatives in the national legislature, we would like you to consider the following and pass the messages here along to Mr. Paulsen and the President and Congressional leaders as they are a summary of what ordinary folks out here are thinking.

1. Mr. Paulsen, from the beginning of this situation, you have acted like a bully. The United States is not your company. It is our company, and you work for us. So show a little respect.

2. To all our leaders: Just because there are many out here who are not convinced that saddling the taxpayer with debt is the way to solve the problem does not mean we are uninformed or stupid. The truth is there are many other ideas out there that may be worth pursuing before we take the most radical step. Visit Dave Ramsey’s website for a summary of them. And then, those who believe the most radical solution must be tried first need to convince us out here – why won’t the other ideas work? Talk to us – debate it honestly -- give us the good arguments. I repeat: the people with these other approaches are just as intelligent as the people pushing the radical way – so convince us your way is best.

3. In case none of you have noticed, we don’t trust you. We are sick and tired of having many people who created this problem over many years acting as if they had nothing to do with it, and lecturing the rest of us. We were not stupid enough to take on mortgages we could not afford; we paid our credit cards and other bills, and have not been greedy. We believe that some financial instruments, like derivatives, are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Some of us have even encountered hard times and have struggled or are still struggling and we do not ask to be treated like victims that the government should bail out. We don’t think those of us that tried to manage our money wisely should have to pay to bail out individuals that did not do so.

4. Many of us would like to know why we should trust the same people who created the problem to solve the problem intelligently and responsibly with no hidden agendas.

5. We don’t want to reward any of the people who were responsible for this. That includes executives and board members of companies that made or invested in improper loans, people and companies who traded in derivatives and similar instruments (especially hedge funds). We also think the government bureaucrats and elected officials that helped create this problem should have to give up some of their powerful positions, in case the voters in their districts don’t hold them responsible.

6. You need to honestly look at all options and do that which is best for us and not for yourselves and show us why your choices are the best. If you do not, you can be assured that there are many out here who will turn you out of office either this year or when your term ends. We’re tired of all of you. The general feeling is “A pox on all your houses (no pun intended). At the very least, we await a public apology from all members of Congress connected with creating this problem over many years.

7. And one quick question: “Does the term ‘Fiduciary Responsibility’ have any relevance anymore?”

317 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:17:17pm

re: #271 CyanSnowHawk

Didn't know you were a Krokus fan Mandy.
I'd post a YouTube link to Eat The Rich, but it's blocked at work.

Here ya go!

318 Cartman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:17:33pm

re: #280 kevinmumaw

Sanders (VT-Socialist), voted no, and he had the only amendment? That dude is weird. Vermont is weird.

One of my relatives is a HUGE Obama supporter, and wannabe socialist. He and his wife have been saving to move to Vermont for years now. They can't wait. Kinda says it all, right there.

319 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:17:41pm

I'm going to take that hot bubble bath now....night all.

320 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:17:45pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

LOL
queue short people by randy newman..

I may call Ben's office and play that when his long-suffering aide answers.

321 VIGILANTinfidel  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:18:18pm

so much for accountability...can I get a pass too for the time I screw myself?

322 Osama Bin Porkchop  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:18:33pm

re: #313 guzziguy

My state's delegation split on this crap. Tom Coburn, usually a good Republican, voted Yea. Right here, right now I pledge $500 to any good solid Republican who runs against him next time.

Jim Inhofe as usual is on the right side of things. He's running this time.

Colburn's vote just floored me......so he'll be getting a piece of my mind.
And Inhofe will be getting a hearty thanks and a few bucks his way.

323 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:18:33pm

re: #307 FrogMarch


Interesting.
Landrieu (D-LA) (nay)- she voted to to save her behind.

Yes she did. Same with Dorgan, Johnson, and Tester.

324 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:18:34pm

hope it just goes down quickly in the house. house isn't even going to take it up until friday, right?

325 loubob57  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:18:42pm

Both of my senators voted yes even though I told them to vote no. Oh well.

326 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:19:01pm

re: #315 FurryOldGuyJeans

No matter how he voted the media will be pillorying the man. That is a given

McCain votes no, he doesn't care about Americans who lost millions.

McCain votes yes, his talk about being anti-pork was all for show.

McCain votes present, sits out most important vote of his life. Is this man really ready to lead?

327 Red Ruffansore  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:19:03pm

It's official, we have been sold out by the mewling idiots in the senate.

Andrew Jackson, our 7th President addressed the same pack of weasels on the same issue 172 years ago (1836)

Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves.' You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out.


George is a worm and he is presiding over a bunch of bottom feeding carp. I guess it's up to us to rout them out.

328 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:19:32pm

re: #318 Cartman

One of my relatives is a HUGE Obama supporter, and wannabe socialist. He and his wife have been saving to move to Vermont for years now. They can't wait. Kinda says it all, right there.

Saving to move to Vermont? Like I said. Weird.

329 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:19:33pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

Oh for Pete's sake!

If McCain voted against this, you guys don't think 0bama wouldn't have had a field day?! McCain might as well have handed 0bama his own head on a silver platter. Does the bill suck? Yeah- but voting against it would have made political hay for 0bama.

You are exactly right, Mccain approved the BAILOUT..but this was the bailout PLUS. He could have just as easily SAID: "I support the bailout 100% but I CANNOT, in good conscience endorse this morbidly obese bill."
He didnt do that: He said AYE

330 jaunte  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:19:37pm

I especially hate how self-congratulatory the Senate leadership was about their 'bipartisanship' in adding to the general tax bill.

331 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:05pm

SEC. 211. TRANSPORTATION FRINGE BENEFIT TO BICYCLE COMMUTERS.

332 the_flying_pig  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:08pm

The United States Senate sold out the American people and screwed the U.S. Constitution and the Founding Fathers in the process.

333 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:14pm

re: #325 loubob57

Both of my senators voted yes even though I told them to vote no. Oh well.

Do they not know who you are?

334 Cartman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:16pm

re: #306 ibmkeyboard

Congress will charge you with 'battery.'

And don't forget hate speech.

335 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:16pm

re: #310 Chip Designer

This bill is full of pork. It contains provisions for paying fishermen injured by the Exxon Valdez.


Of course it contains pork. It was written by democrats.

336 rorschach  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:28pm

I'm about ready to stop filing my yearly IRS return.

I'm supposed to pay taxes so that people like Franklin Raines can keep the 100 mil he stole?

Fuck him. Right now every cent I make goes to someone else. And I am not a drain on society.

But if those sons o' bitches want to lock me up and spend fifty G's a year to do it, then I may just let them. Sounds like a better retirement plan than I currently have.

337 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:33pm

re: #315 FurryOldGuyJeans

I never thought I would have to go to the polls with a gas mask.

Holding your nose is not sufficient anymore.

338 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:40pm

My Senator unexpectedly has voted Nay. Weird

/Mary Landrieu, D-LA

339 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:20:46pm

re: #323 kevinmumaw

Yes she did. Same with Dorgan, Johnson, and Tester.

yep!

340 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:21:22pm

re: #292 Castlebravo


But don't all bills requiring spending money HAVE to originate in the House of Representatives?

No. All bills for RAISING money, not spending it.

341 Defogger  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:21:44pm

re: #338 pink freud

My Senator unexpectedly has voted Nay. Weird

/Mary Landrieu, D-LA

I saw that, too. Is she up for re-election?

342 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:09pm

re: #266 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Tipsy is why Tylenol was invented.

Enjoy your cheesecake though! I'm jealous!

Oooh, no Tylenol after tipsy-ness! Go for aspirin or ibuprofen. Tylenol and alcohol are damaging to the liver.

343 lazydaisy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:20pm

One positive thing about this bill passing is that even the lefty blogs are complaining about it. All Americans are joining together in discontent. Truly a bipartisan issue. Gives me hope for our country.

344 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:33pm

re: #336 rorschach

I'm about ready to stop filing my yearly IRS return.

I'm supposed to pay taxes so that people like Franklin Raines can keep the 100 mil he stole?

Fuck him. Right now every cent I make goes to someone else. And I am not a drain on society.

But if those sons o' bitches want to lock me up and spend fifty G's a year to do it, then I may just let them. Sounds like a better retirement plan than I currently have.

file, just don't put any money in the envelope. that's not a crime.
the crime is not filing or lying abt. how much you make.

345 jaunte  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:41pm

re: #341 Defogger

Yes.

346 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:41pm

McCain needs to unload, here's a proposed speech.

The people who shamelessly forced the banks to create these toxic loans and infected the financial system with them are the same people who have taken vast sums of money from the peddlers of the trash mortgage paper. Now after the House rejected the first version of the recovery plan they shamelessly added in subsidies for vote riggers and the advocacy groups that created this mess in the first place and millions of dollars more in pork. Why then you may ask did I vote for this bill? I did it because they deliberately timed it so that I would have to accept their shameless and selfish plundering of the public treasury at this time or I would have to accept the possibility that hundreds of banks could be driven into insolvency and millions of working Americans could lose their jobs. As far as I am concerned those who larded this bill down with special interest subsidies are no better than kidnappers who are holding a gun to the heads of old people and children unless they get their way. They have won this round but they haven't won the war. Please elect me and elect other real reformers and let us start cleaning out Washington.

347 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:48pm

re: #340 Occasional Reader

No. All bills for RAISING money, not spending it.

Thanks, OR.
Couldn't remember why that was wrong.

348 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:22:58pm

‘‘(9) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAXPAYERS WITH OIL
16 RELATED QUALIFIED PRODUCTION ACTIVITIES IN17
COME.—
18 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—If a taxpayer has oil
19 related qualified production activities income for
20 any taxable year beginning after 2009, the
21 amount otherwise allowable as a deduction
22 under subsection (a) shall be reduced by 3 per
cent of the least of—

349 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:23:02pm

Remember the scene in Stranger Than Fiction where Maggy whats-her-face told Will farrell she withheld the percentage of her taxes that goes to defense because she doesn't agree with it? Hmmm.....I could probably not pay taxes for a few months with this legalized robbery. I think I will no longer pay my percentage of taxes that goes to ACORN for example.

350 bcgirl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:23:22pm

SERIOUSLY! Senator are YOU reading this? You asked for the American people to stand and fight with you, during your accepance speech,, and please forgive me for this but to quote another American Hero, Todd Beamer-- LETS ROLL get those ads on everywhere, i am sick of seeing the one.................
re: #247 Intrepid

The stock market lost almost 800 points after the house bill went down last week, and the only reason it hasn't tanked worse than that is the hope that the Senate would pass some sort of bill. That happened tonight.

I don't like the pork added to this monstrosity - I mean, come on! Wooden Arrows? Caribbean Rum? Wool Studies? NASCAR tracks? - but the hopes of its passing has been the only stem against the tide of a major crash.

And after the injection of hundreds of billions of dollars these past few days, it still ended up in negative territory today. It was only about 20 down, but with that massive of an injection of funds, it only served to slow down the decline.

Now the McCain camp needs to go on a major offensive and skewer Obama with all his FM/FM buddies who have been and still are his advisers. Blame the whole thing on Obama, no matter that he was only a teenager when the whole FM/FM creation started.

IT IS ALL BARACK OBAMA'S FRIENDS' FAULT THAT WE HAD TO EVEN VOTE ON THIS BILL!

Hit 'em often and hit 'em hard. Knock Obama so hard and so low he'll have to stand on a step ladder just to kiss John McCain's ass!

Fight! Fight! Fight!

MCCAIN/PALIN '08

351 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:23:30pm

re: #309 Florida Lady

As sad as it is, you're right.

OTOH, it takes his "I'm for getting rid of earmarks" schtick off the table for the next debate, since this bill is pork- and earmark-laden.

Which the more I think about it is probably a good thing. People are tired of that line, and it doesn't work for him politically anyway.

No- he should stick to reform and controlling spending and energy. These are things that are costing Americans more money on top of this bill. I think Americans will be more hungry for government spending restraint and cheaper gas/energy after this. He has to pound that home.

352 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:23:59pm

re: #329 Wishing

You are exactly right, Mccain approved the BAILOUT..but this was the bailout PLUS. He could have just as easily SAID: "I support the bailout 100% but I CANNOT, in good conscience endorse this morbidly obese bill."
He didnt do that: He said AYE

No matter what he did or what he said, he would have a hostile media ready to spin it in the worst possible light, period. This was a no-win scenario for McCain as far as the media is concerned. And how the media goes also goes a significant chunk of American voters.

353 the_flying_pig  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:23:59pm

re: #289 Joe Six Pack

In his burial casket? So the dead do listen to iPod!

354 jaunte  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:03pm

Landrieu up for re-election in close race:
[Link: www.vot3r.com...]

355 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:23pm

re: #332 the_flying_pig

The United States Senate sold out the American people and screwed the U.S. Constitution and the Founding Fathers in the process.

Should have held to principles and opted for national bankruptcy.

356 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:36pm

re: #293 Intrepid

I heard different on Fox - the bill was passed in the Senate with a different procedure, as there were no hearings, no committee meetings, no initial votes. That's why it had to pass by 60 votes and not just a simple majority.

And Neil Cavuto just said the house had to pass it as is.

I'll take your word on it (and Cavuto's). I just hope the House does what it did Monday and reject it.

357 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:40pm

re: #346 lifeofthemind

McCain needs to unload, here's a proposed speech.

The people who shamelessly forced the banks to create these toxic loans and infected the financial system with them are the same people who have taken vast sums of money from the peddlers of the trash mortgage paper. Now after the House rejected the first version of the recovery plan they shamelessly added in subsidies for vote riggers and the advocacy groups that created this mess in the first place and millions of dollars more in pork. Why then you may ask did I vote for this bill? I did it because they deliberately timed it so that I would have to accept their shameless and selfish plundering of the public treasury at this time or I would have to accept the possibility that hundreds of banks could be driven into insolvency and millions of working Americans could lose their jobs. As far as I am concerned those who larded this bill down with special interest subsidies are no better than kidnappers who are holding a gun to the heads of old people and children unless they get their way. They have won this round but they haven't won the war. Please elect me and elect other real reformers and let us start cleaning out Washington.

Yes, yes, a million times yes. If anything, I would be convinced that McCain sprouted a pair.

358 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:42pm

re: #338 pink freud

Wild ass guess pink but I would think:

a) did not get something tacked on for LA
b) senses that constituents have literally been soaked enough

359 KZnextzone  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:48pm

I thought it was funny when Barney Frank was willing to do whatever he could to garner votes,
sewed up Sen, Craig's vote!

360 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:24:52pm

re: #341 Defogger

I saw that, too. Is she up for re-election?

Not only is she up for re-election, she is running against Kennedy, a former Dem turned Republican. Feeling here is that it's time for new blood ....it's not looking too good for her re-election. She's part of the good-ole-boy network that has ruled La. for generations that Jindal has pledged to thwart.

361 Dasher  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:08pm

It didn't go the way I thought it would. I sort of thought that many of those senators up for election would vote no, and it would still pass with the 2/3 of the senate that were not up for election. But it went 24 percent from those up fore election voting no and 25 percent of the whole population voting no.

362 Defogger  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:13pm

re: #345 jaunte

Explains a lot. Unless she was angry that her own personal piece of pork didn't get in. A few days ago, I saw her campaigning for some kind of farm subsidy, IIRC.

363 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:18pm

Hopefully this fails so I can use all the lessons I learned watching Man vs. Wild when the economy collapses and anarchy ensues.

364 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:19pm

All this does is postpone the inevitable day of reckoning. It will buy us another few months at best.

365 cblesz  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:22pm

ACORN is OUT of this bill...

366 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:34pm

McCain was in prison.

But those of us 'in country' Vietnam,
always said we were killing the wrong fucking people.

/I will probably get deleted,

but I really don't give a shit.

367 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:35pm

re: #352 FurryOldGuyJeans

No matter what he did or what he said, he would have a hostile media ready to spin it in the worst possible light, period. This was a no-win scenario for McCain as far as the media is concerned. And how the media goes also goes a significant chunk of American voters.

I see...and are you suggesting that this AYE vote has given Mac a boost with the MSM?
What he did was flip off his supporters.

368 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:37pm

re: #344 nyc redneck

file, just don't put any money in the envelope. that's not a crime. the crime is not filing or lying abt. how much you make.

Yes, but you are also stating that you owe (if you do) a certain amount. And this gives them the right to get the money you owe in so many ways.

And I think the point was that rorschach was trying to make was that he was thinking of commiting a crime so he could retire in jail.

369 guzziguy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:42pm

re: #346 lifeofthemind

McCain needs to unload, here's a proposed speech.

The people who shamelessly forced the banks to create these toxic loans and infected the financial system with them are the same people who have taken vast sums of money from the peddlers of the trash mortgage paper. Now after the House rejected the first version of the recovery plan they shamelessly added in subsidies for vote riggers and the advocacy groups that created this mess in the first place and millions of dollars more in pork. Why then you may ask did I vote for this bill? I did it because they deliberately timed it so that I would have to accept their shameless and selfish plundering of the public treasury at this time or I would have to accept the possibility that hundreds of banks could be driven into insolvency and millions of working Americans could lose their jobs. As far as I am concerned those who larded this bill down with special interest subsidies are no better than kidnappers who are holding a gun to the heads of old people and children unless they get their way. They have won this round but they haven't won the war. Please elect me and elect other real reformers and let us start cleaning out Washington.

Why aren't you running? McCain doesn't have the equipment to make this statement. He's way too busy being bipartisan

370 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:49pm

re: #285 N_Jones

The father of the Angel Family - Judge Dread?

Not even close, thanks for trying though.

371 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:25:58pm
372 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:01pm

The donations are over. I'd been making one to McCain-Palin every paycheck, 20 or 30 dollars. No more. I'm still voting for them, but if McCain wants money, he can hold me up for it, just like Congress just did.

I'm buying Ironman with that money instead on Friday.

373 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:09pm

re: #359 KZnextzone

I thought it was funny when Barney Frank was willing to do whatever he could to garner votes,
sewed up Sen, Craig's vote!

Now that's reaching across the stall aisle!

374 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:13pm

re: #365 cblesz

ACORN is OUT of this bill...

what? is that true?

375 wright1  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:23pm

Sorry. I do not think this was necessary. Increasing the FDIC: fine. But, I have heard more than a few smarter economists than I indicate that bankruptcy would have succeeded with the caveat that the Fed has already gained enormous wealth without this measure and therefore is capable of taking remedial measures.

My beef is simple: This is a bailout of Democratic corruption. There is a paper trail. The case can be made. By letting the Dems off the hook you are glossing over the problem without examining the causes.

The absurdity that Dodd and Frank get to vote on this is as silly as Ifill moderating tomorrow. The world is upside down my friends and if McCain is the new sheriff in town, why doesn't he start acting like one? I keep waiting for him to metaphorically resemble the scene of Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider. The cowards are cowering and he just takes them out one at a time.

Rush had a great segment on the fact that the MSM focused for 6 weeks of: Mark Foley and "Maccaca" back in 2004 before the election. Why can we not find one journalist to do his job and look into the corruption? Cause the fix is in.

No folks. I am not for this. He** no!

I know people have investments but it is time to see accountability.

376 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:24pm

TREATMENT OF S CORPORATIONS.—In the
23 case of the sale of a covered security acquired by an
24 S corporation (other than a financial institution)
25 after December 31, 2011, such S corporation shall
248
O:AYOAYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 be treated in the same manner as a partnership for
2 purposes of this section.


This looks significant but I don't know the real meaning..anybody here know?

377 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:25pm

re: #320 Catttt

I may call Ben's office and play that when his long-suffering aide answers.

Bad News Catttt.. The hate mail is pouring in..My email box is full..
I understand that short people have declared a fatwa on us..
I'm going in hiding...There is word that mini me is running the show...
The friggin sharks with the laser beams is scaring the hell out of me..
( I figure if i dye my hair and grow a beard I'll be alright)

378 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:51pm

re: #364 rawmuse

All this does is postpone the inevitable day of reckoning. It will buy us another few months at best.

See my #211 if you have time.

379 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:55pm

re: #358 unclassifiable

Wild ass guess pink but I would think:

a) did not get something tacked on for LA
b) senses that constituents have literally been soaked enough

She's walking a fine line. Time for her to go (the only thing is ...how blue is this Dem-turned Republican running against her?)

380 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:26:55pm

Lindsey graham just called out ACORN on Greta.

381 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:01pm

re: #330 jaunte

I especially hate how self-congratulatory the Senate leadership was about their 'bipartisanship' in adding to the general tax bill.

Bipartisanship=No Gridlock

No Gridlock=Congress Accomplishing Things

Congress Accomplishing Things=Bad

382 Salem  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:03pm

Grahamnesty sez the Acorn thingy is out of the bill. I thought it had been slipped back in. That's a little different.

I honestly don't know what to think, anymore...

383 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:06pm

How about all those illegal contributions to Barry? Like that apx 18,000 bucks (a bit at a time) from Mr. Good Will of Austin, Texas? Put his job and profession down as "loving you"? All sent via credit card?

We are talking millions and millions that Barry refuses to come up with info on.

Anyone in the MSM care?

Anyone in the FEC care?

Is this thing on?

384 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:23pm

re: #314 Dar ul Harb

Um.

Well, this isn't the final bill.

I predict that the conference report will originate in the House.

(Anyone?)

It is the final bill, no conference, Senate is in recess.

385 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:27pm

re: #365 cblesz

ACORN is OUT of this bill...

Well, that's at least good news.

386 Cartman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:29pm

re: #328 kevinmumaw

Saving to move to Vermont? Like I said. Weird.

Well, the guy is a social worker/community organizer working off of gubmint social grants. I think he's fanned most of his income in the direction of the DNC, or worse yet, the SP-USA. He's a wack job, fer sure.

387 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:53pm

re: #365 cblesz

ACORN is OUT of this bill...

Yep. I'm slightly less pissed now. F*** ACORN, lying extortionists.

388 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:53pm

re: #365 cblesz

ACORN is OUT of this bill...

I think you are mistaken.

389 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:27:53pm

It's been a really rough day en la Casa de La Amanda.

390 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:28:10pm

re: #359 KZnextzone

I thought it was funny when Barney Frank was willing to do whatever he could to garner votes,
sewed up Sen, Craig's vote!

Bipartisanship, "wide stance", same thing!

391 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:28:44pm

re: #367 Wishing

I see...and are you suggesting that this AYE vote has given Mac a boost with the MSM?
What he did was flip off his supporters.

No matter how he would have voted it will not be a boost. And this is not the first time he has gone maverick and told the American people to sod off. Remember McCain/Feingold? McCain/Kennedy? He has a history of doing crud like this vote.

392 rorschach  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:28:51pm
#344 nyc redneck

file, just don't put any money in the envelope. that's not a crime.
the crime is not filing or lying abt. how much you make.


Just so we're clear, I could file but just not pay? That's interesting.

393 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:28:54pm

re: #346 lifeofthemind

McCain needs to unload, here's a proposed speech.

The people who shamelessly forced the banks to create these toxic loans and infected the financial system with them are the same people who have taken vast sums of money from the peddlers of the trash mortgage paper. Now after the House rejected the first version of the recovery plan they shamelessly added in subsidies for vote riggers and the advocacy groups that created this mess in the first place and millions of dollars more in pork. Why then you may ask did I vote for this bill? I did it because they deliberately timed it so that I would have to accept their shameless and selfish plundering of the public treasury at this time or I would have to accept the possibility that hundreds of banks could be driven into insolvency and millions of working Americans could lose their jobs. As far as I am concerned those who larded this bill down with special interest subsidies are no better than kidnappers who are holding a gun to the heads of old people and children unless they get their way. They have won this round but they haven't won the war. Please elect me and elect other real reformers and let us start cleaning out Washington.

Why should I listen to McCain? He's just as bad as the rest of the Senate. Screw him...he's lost my vote and my money...I have to pay for this damn bailout now.

394 KZnextzone  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:29:12pm

re: #390 Occasional Reader
Hand us your wallet and bend over...

395 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:29:12pm

ot:

Your Children Are NOW learning that: "Christianity was started by a young Palestinian named Jesus"

396 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:29:36pm

re: #316 ChildOfMary

Excellent letter, COM!

397 Salem  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:29:38pm

re: #388 Wishing

I think you are mistaken.

Lindsey Grahamnesty just said so on Fox. Not that I trust the man at all. But it would be a strange thing to lie about.

398 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:29:55pm

re: #364 rawmuse

All this does is postpone the inevitable day of reckoning. It will buy us another few months at best.

I disagree.

Unless you mean that the bailout was a necessary, but not sufficient, condition to getting through the subprime-mortgage-induced financial crisis. Then I agree.

399 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:30:00pm

re: #374 nyc redneck

As far as I can tell, there's no appropriations to ACORN or any other similar group.

400 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:30:00pm

re: #286 The Shadow Do

Convert your cash to gold and bury it in your my back yard. All will be well.

401 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:30:12pm

re: #333 kevinmumaw

Do they not know who you are?

How many loubob57's can there be?

402 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:30:42pm

re: #389 MandyManners

It's been a really rough day en la Casa de La Amanda.

Oops. Don't do this is you screwed the pooch RE: the link.

403 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:30:56pm

SEC. 308. INCREASE IN LIMIT ON COVER OVER OF RUM EX
CISE TAX TO PUERTO RICO AND THE VIRGIN ISLANDS.

404 Dasher  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:02pm

SECTION 103 of the bill has a provision to bail out cities and counties, and unions who's pension funds are under funded... mainly because of super lucrative pension plans of public employees. Nothing to do with mortgages.

405 jaunte  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:20pm

re: #381 freedombilly

A short while ago I felt a great disturbance, like hundreds of hands had just reached into my wallet...
...
... to erase the distinction between those who keep their word and pay their debt, and those who don't.

406 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:23pm

wyden (d) nay
smith (r) yea

407 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:23pm

re: #346 lifeofthemind

McCain needs to unload, here's a proposed speech.

The people who shamelessly forced the banks to create these toxic loans and infected the financial system with them are the same people who have taken vast sums of money from the peddlers of the trash mortgage paper. Now after the House rejected the first version of the recovery plan they shamelessly added in subsidies for vote riggers and the advocacy groups that created this mess in the first place and millions of dollars more in pork. Why then you may ask did I vote for this bill? I did it because they deliberately timed it so that I would have to accept their shameless and selfish plundering of the public treasury at this time or I would have to accept the possibility that hundreds of banks could be driven into insolvency and millions of working Americans could lose their jobs. As far as I am concerned those who larded this bill down with special interest subsidies are no better than kidnappers who are holding a gun to the heads of old people and children unless they get their way. They have won this round but they haven't won the war. Please elect me and elect other real reformers and let us start cleaning out Washington.

PLEASE, PLEASE send this to John McCain, his campaign manager, his speech writer, and anyone else you can think of. Maybe you can get him to actually fight and give the speech!

408 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:26pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

No- he should stick to reform and controlling spending and energy. These are things that are costing Americans more money on top of this bill. I think Americans will be more hungry for government spending restraint and cheaper gas/energy after this. He has to pound that home.

But Sharmuta, he doesn't look like much of a reformer right now by voting for this bill. And it takes his control spending theme right off the table . . .

Unless . . .

He comes out swinging tomorrow with righteous anger and says what #346 & #350 commenters suggested. Awesome, by the way, both of you!

409 GeeWiz  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:30pm

Here's a thought experiment for us to consider. Replace McCain with Palin and how would she vote on this bill?

I suspect it would be a different result, but thats just me.

410 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:30pm

re: #389 MandyManners

It's been a really rough day en la Casa de La Amanda.

Time for a romp through the periwinkles, perhaps? :-)

I hope things improve.

411 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:33pm

re: #393 Random63

Why should I listen to McCain? He's just as bad as the rest of the Senate. Screw him...he's lost my vote and my money...I have to pay for this damn bailout now.

This bailout may not cost you a dime. Just as the RTC didn't cost you anything, net, in the end.

I think the costs of NOT doing it (or something like it) would have been far higher. That is not to say that I'm happy with a) how this was rammed through the Senate, or b) the pork bullshit.

412 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:31:49pm

re: #403 spirochete

SEC. 308. INCREASE IN LIMIT ON COVER OVER OF RUM EX
CISE TAX TO PUERTO RICO AND THE VIRGIN ISLANDS.

I vote YES!
/

413 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:32:15pm

re: #376 spirochete

TREATMENT OF S CORPORATIONS.—In the
23 case of the sale of a covered security acquired by an
24 S corporation (other than a financial institution)
25 after December 31, 2011, such S corporation shall
248
O:AYOAYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 be treated in the same manner as a partnership for
2 purposes of this section.


This looks significant but I don't know the real meaning..anybody here know?

Looks like they are stripping the S Corp protection afforded under the law whenever they sell a "covered Security", whatever that is. There must be a section that defines what a covered security is. IOW, rather than punish the business entity, they will go after the owner's personal property if they piss off the overlords in Washington. My 2 cents.

414 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:32:21pm

SEC. 317. SEVEN-YEAR COST RECOVERY PERIOD FOR MO
TORSPORTS RACING TRACK FACILITY.

415 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:32:32pm

re: #405 jaunte

Updinged and made a favorite instantly. Well said.

416 rorschach  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:32:36pm
#368 Walter L. Newton

re: #344 nyc redneck

file, just don't put any money in the envelope. that's not a crime. the crime is not filing or lying abt. how much you make.

Yes, but you are also stating that you owe (if you do) a certain amount. And this gives them the right to get the money you owe in so many ways.

And I think the point was that rorschach was trying to make was that he was thinking of commiting a crime so he could retire in jail.

Actually, the point I was making is this...right now, even though I don't pay a large amount of taxes, I'm not a drain on society. You all are not supporting me.

But, if I'm locked away, you will.

417 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:32:43pm
418 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:33:09pm

re: #414 spirochete

SEC. 317. SEVEN-YEAR COST RECOVERY PERIOD FOR MO
TORSPORTS RACING TRACK FACILITY.

Who's the Senator from NASCAR?

419 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:33:24pm

re: #395 WrathofG-d

ot:

Your Children Are NOW learning that: "Christianity was started by a young Palestinian named Jesus"

Oh, f**k me sideways...

420 SteveRogers  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:33:25pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

Oh for Pete's sake!

If McCain voted against this, you guys don't think 0bama wouldn't have had a field day?! McCain might as well have handed 0bama his own head on a silver platter. Does the bill suck? Yeah- but voting against it would have made political hay for 0bama.

McCain could have been principled and voted against it.
All he had to say is the bill is laden with pork, and it rewards the very people who caused this.
Now he comes across as a hypocrite.
I'll still vote for him, hoping he only serves one term.

421 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:33:32pm

re: #369 guzziguy

Why aren't you running? McCain doesn't have the equipment to make this statement. He's way too busy being bipartisan

Lousy job but I need one, great pension plan, where do I start?

422 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:33:32pm

re: #3 ArmyWife

Since the President started this, you really think he is going to veto it? For why?

think he said before that if it contained any crap he would

423 Killian Bundy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:06pm

re: #393 Random63

Why should I listen to McCain? He's just as bad as the rest of the Senate. Screw him...he's lost my vote and my money

Oh goodie, now we're back to this again.

/President Obama, get used to saying it, hope you enjoy his Supreme Court picks because they'll be around a lot longer than he will

424 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:07pm

re: #398 Occasional Reader

I disagree.

Unless you mean that the bailout was a necessary, but not sufficient, condition to getting through the subprime-mortgage-induced financial crisis. Then I agree.

What changed here? Did new rules for banks get written? Did Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get reformed?

I did not read the bill, but I don't see any of that.

I see the same clowns responsible for this mess congratulating themselves and patting each other on the back.

So, I stand by my original statement. We will need another bailout. And another.

425 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:10pm

re: #369 guzziguy

and Thank you

426 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:18pm

re: #405 jaunte

A short while ago I felt a great disturbance in the force, like hundreds millions of hands had just reached into my wallet...
...


Star Wads.

427 Bubbaman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:30pm

It's time to throw off the yoke of tyrrany folks.

428 kaziggy2  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:50pm

Pukefest is all I have to say. One of my senators voted for, one against. The one who voted for is NOT gettin my vote. But then he is the same guy that likes to play footsie, so no big loss.

429 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:34:54pm

re: #353 the_flying_pig

In his burial casket? So the dead do listen to iPod!

Umm, that would Kim il Sung, his DAD who is dead...Kim Jung Il is still alive and breathing and awaiting his place in hell with his old man.

430 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:35:08pm

re: #419 Occasional Reader

What is quoted is just one of thousands....there is also:

Jesus was a “Palestinian”, not a Jew.
· The Arab nations never attacked Israel. Arab-Israeli wars “just broke out,” or Israel started them.
· Arabs nations want peace but Israel does not.
· Israel expelled all Palestinian refugees.
· Israel put the Palestinians in refugee camps in Arab lands, not Arab governments.
· Palestinian terrorism is nonexistent or minimal.
· Israel is not a victim of terrorism or terrorism against Israel is justified.
· U.S. support of Israel causes terrorism, including 9/11.
· The intifadas were children’s revolts not involving adults or terrorism.
· Jews and Judaism are legalistic. Jews are only about the letter of the law and ignore its spirit.

431 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:35:38pm

re: #398 Occasional Reader

Actually, ol' Lucy was the one who spilled the beans on ACORN funding being in the original House bill last week . . . so we have to thank him for that.

But not much else.

You hear that, Lucy? I'm one of the "loud people"

432 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:35:48pm

re: #422 spidly

think he said before that if it contained any crap he would

I am not very enthralled with GWB's ability to resist signing pork bills. But I sure would not mind one whit being proven wrong about this particular.

433 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:36:01pm

re: #429 Joe Six Pack

Umm, that would Kim il Sung, his DAD who is dead...Kim Jung Il is still alive and breathing and awaiting his place in hell with his old man.

Well, they're both quite Il.

434 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:36:15pm

re: #348 spirochete

‘‘(9) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAXPAYERS WITH OIL
16 RELATED QUALIFIED PRODUCTION ACTIVITIES IN17
COME.—
18 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—If a taxpayer has oil
19 related qualified production activities income for
20 any taxable year beginning after 2009, the
21 amount otherwise allowable as a deduction
22 under subsection (a) shall be reduced by 3 per
cent of the least of—

Cheaper gas?

435 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:36:36pm

Okay everybody, I need some help. My BiL is talking about voting for Obama, so I need a few good links to send to him to get him off of this.

436 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:36:42pm

(a) EXTENSION OF EXPENSING RULES FOR QUALI
FIED FILM AND TELEVISION PRODUCTIONS

So who exactly are we bailing out here?

437 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:37:06pm

re: #419 Occasional Reader

Oh, f**k me sideways...

Nice.

438 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:37:11pm

re: #410 pink freud

Time for a romp through the periwinkles, perhaps? :-)

I hope things improve.

Oh, goodness!

Youtube Video

439 bcgirl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:37:18pm

with all due respect, this late in the "game" and you all know it is a fricking game,and OBAMA must not win, sorry but the only way to make sure that does not happen is to vote for McCain/Palin, just get over it, at least it has a chance of being fixed, you think obammunisim will allow "change" in 2012?
re: #391 FurryOldGuyJeans

No matter how he would have voted it will not be a boost. And this is not the first time he has gone maverick and told the American people to sod off. Remember McCain/Feingold? McCain/Kennedy? He has a history of doing crud like this vote.

440 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:37:18pm

re: #434 Intrepid

Cheaper gas?

No, that sounds like taking away a deduction.

441 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:37:35pm

re: #424 rawmuse

What changed here? Did new rules for banks get written? Did Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get reformed?

I did not read the bill, but I don't see any of that.

I see the same clowns responsible for this mess congratulating themselves and patting each other on the back.

So, I stand by my original statement. We will need another bailout. And another.

And with each bailout remove one more privatized underpinning to our economy. Whee, how to have Socialism in 12 "easy" steps.

*YACK*

442 guzziguy  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:37:48pm

re: #434 Intrepid

Cheaper gas?

No, higher. Text says they're reducing deductions.

443 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:38:01pm

re: #434 Intrepid

Cheaper gas?

I see this as more expensive gas.

444 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:38:17pm

re: #436 spirochete

(a) EXTENSION OF EXPENSING RULES FOR QUALI
FIED FILM AND TELEVISION PRODUCTIONS

So who exactly are we bailing out here?

All those anti-Iraq war movies get written off, see?

445 Han_Solo  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:38:39pm

re: #292 Castlebravo

Does the Constitution matter AT ALL ANYMORE?

Article 1 - Section 7 of the Constitution:

"Section 7: All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."

446 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:38:47pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

Yes, but you are also stating that you owe (if you do) a certain amount. And this gives them the right to get the money you owe in so many ways.

And I think the point was that rorschach was trying to make was that he was thinking of commiting a crime so he could retire in jail.

oh he is making a statement. and he doesn't mind going to jail.
the plan i have offered entails a complete tax form filled out properly and honestly.
but no money paid to the irs. the envelope is empty except for paper work.
of course this plan means you can't own anything, real prop, or a big boat or new car. and you have to be a self employed cash operator. ( ie handy man)
you have to live like a pauper and not have a bank account. money buried in the back yard kind of a deal. i know people who do this. it is a political statement but they are cutting their nose off to spit their face. thank god there isn't debtor's prison or some people i know would be in the big house.

447 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:39:10pm

This one really takes the cake. "Don't tax any wooden arrows"

SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN
21 WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY
22 CHILDREN.
23 (a) IN GENERAL.—Paragraph (2) of section 4161(b)
24 is amended by redesignating subparagraph (B) as sub301
O:AYOAYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 paragraph (C) and by inserting after subparagraph (A)
2 the following new subparagraph:
3 ‘‘(B) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN WOODEN
4 ARROW SHAFTS.—Subparagraph (A) shall not
5 apply to any shaft consisting of all natural
6 wood with no laminations or artificial means of
7 enhancing the spine of such shaft (whether sold
8 separately or incorporated as part of a finished
9 or unfinished product) of a type used in the
10 manufacture of any arrow which after its as11
sembly—
12 ‘‘(i) measures 5⁄16 of an inch or less in
13 diameter, and
14 ‘‘(ii) is not suitable for use with a bow
15 described in paragraph (1)(A).’’.
16 (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by
17 this section shall apply to shafts first sold after the date
18 of enactment of this Act.

448 nanook  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:39:32pm

re: #209 Salem

Heck of a way to begin the final month. If McCain hadn't voted for it, I'd say wait and see how the public reacted. *sigh*

I'm just going to come out and say it. I hate McCain. He's the candidate the media picked out for us.

Yeah. But he's so much better than that other candidate. You know the One I mean.

449 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:39:41pm

re: #432 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am not very enthralled with GWB's ability to resist signing pork bills. But I sure would not mind one whit being proven wrong about this particular.


its basically a bill he originated, and he has spoken to the nation 5-6 times about the need to pass this NOW. i see zero chance of a veto.

450 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:39:50pm

re: #447 spirochete

I thought it was, "Don't take any wooden nickels!"

/

451 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:14pm

re: #439 bcgirl

with all due respect, this late in the "game" and you all know it is a fricking game,and OBAMA must not win, sorry but the only way to make sure that does not happen is to vote for McCain/Palin, just get over it, at least it has a chance of being fixed, you think obammunisim will allow "change" in 2012?

Not to put too fine a point on it I don't believe I made a ringing endorsement for the O. I am just pointing out that McCain has feet of clay and has had them for quite some time. I know enough, thank you very much, to not be swooned over the glitter of dross, though. :)

452 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:14pm

re: #396 Intrepid

Thanks much.

453 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:22pm

re: #376 spirochete

TREATMENT OF S CORPORATIONS.—In the
23 case of the sale of a covered security acquired by an
24 S corporation (other than a financial institution)
25 after December 31, 2011, such S corporation shall
248
O:AYOAYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 be treated in the same manner as a partnership for
2 purposes of this section.


This looks significant but I don't know the real meaning..anybody here know?

Brokers are already required to report proceeds from the sale of securities to the IRS. Now, they're going to have to report cost basis as well. What I want to know in the hell is a broker is going to determine that a corporation has elected Subchapter S status?

454 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:25pm

From the spigot of libberish at Kos..

P.S. -- One upshot of this outcome is that when John McCain jetted into town to broker a deal, his deal fell apart. When Obama came to town and started working the phones, the bailout passed.

There you have it. Follow the Sandal!

455 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:33pm

re: #449 alien_mind

its basically a bill he originated, and he has spoken to the nation 5-6 times about the need to pass this NOW. i see zero chance of a veto.

I hope this one goes down in flames too.

456 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:36pm

re: #436 spirochete

(a) EXTENSION OF EXPENSING RULES FOR QUALI
FIED FILM AND TELEVISION PRODUCTIONS

So who exactly are we bailing out here?

Everyone but you?

457 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:40:36pm

re: #411 Occasional Reader

This bailout may not cost you a dime. Just as the RTC didn't cost you anything, net, in the end.

I think the costs of NOT doing it (or something like it) would have been far higher. That is not to say that I'm happy with a) how this was rammed through the Senate, or b) the pork bullshit.

Listen...this really boils down to a basic philosophy...do our Representatives represent us or not? Are we a republic or not? I voted for Mel Martinez 4 years ago to represent me. He has done nothing but betray our people in this state. He's on his knees before Bush all the time doing what ever he wants done. Martinez thinks he's a Mexican Senator and now he thinks he represents the banks.

I am tired of donating money, time, and my vote just to see my Representatives betray us all over and over again. They work for us and yet think they can always commit insubordination without consequences. Not any more. I don't care what party, they all go when I go to the ballot box. My money will go to the opponents. And. screw McCain! I am tired of him giving us th finger all the time and yet expect us to "fall in line" and vote for him and donate money to him. Screw him.

God, I hope he goes and Palin gets to the head of the ticket.

458 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:06pm

re: #454 Mich-again

From the spigot of libberish at Kos..

There you have it. Follow the Sandal!

A SHOE! A SHOE!

459 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:09pm

re: #450 Ward Cleaver

I thought it was, "Don't take any wooden nickels!"

/

This, too, has changed. It is written. But you can't enchance the spine of the shaft, this, too, is written.

460 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:11pm

re: #447 spirochete

This one really takes the cake. "Don't tax any wooden arrows"

Well, that should lock in the Native-American vote!

461 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:17pm

re: #392 rorschach

Just so we're clear, I could file but just not pay? That's interesting.

you can't own anything the gov't could take to satisfy the debt you owe them, tho.

462 jaunte  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:25pm

re: #447 spirochete

Unbelievable. Who's the Senator from the lumber crafting state that couldn't be reelected without that one?

463 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:35pm

word. & Peace out

464 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:49pm

re: #450 Ward Cleaver

I thought it was, "Don't take any wooden nickels!"

/

We're apparently getting the shaft, but it's only 5/16 of an inch or less in diameter.

465 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:54pm

re: #360 pink freud

Not only is she up for re-election, she is running against Kennedy, a former Dem turned Republican. Feeling here is that it's time for new blood ....it's not looking too good for her re-election. She's part of the good-ole-boy network that has ruled La. for generations that Jindal has pledged to thwart.

Do you think Jindal's excellent handling of the Gustav preparedness will give Kennedy a leg up? Hope so. We can use every Republican we can get in the senate, because we're on track to lose at least 3-4 seats, at least.

466 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:41:56pm

re: #447 spirochete

This one really takes the cake. "Don't tax any wooden arrows".

At least that one doesn't cost me anything.

It's the ones to study the musical tastes of the Madagascar Giant Hissing Cockroach for $800,000 that get me.

467 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:42:20pm

re: #436 spirochete

(a) EXTENSION OF EXPENSING RULES FOR QUALI
FIED FILM AND TELEVISION PRODUCTIONS

So who exactly are we bailing out here?

Finally.. We get relief for hollywood...It's surprising the whole industry hasn't colapsed already..If we don't act very soon brad and joline won't be able to adapt another child..WON'T you think of the CHILDREN?
/I'm looking forward to better movies this winter..aren't you?
//

468 JohnAdams  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:42:41pm

They drove the car over the cliff and now, ten seconds before we all hit the ground, they ask for $700 bills to build the parachute.

It's extortion. This is our government. Whoever does win is going to inherit this mess. Neither one is up to the job. I'll vote McCain simply because I believe he'll handle an international crisis better. The next Congressional election will be an ass-kicking housecleaning the likes of which we've never seen.

469 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:42:54pm

re: #399 lawhawk

As far as I can tell, there's no appropriations to ACORN or any other similar group.

yay.

470 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:42:56pm

re: #435 Ward Cleaver

Okay everybody, I need some help. My BiL is talking about voting for Obama, so I need a few good links to send to him to get him off of this.

It's not a link, but I'd start with this- "Are you fuckin' nuts?"

471 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:42:58pm

re: #423 Killian Bundy

Oh goodie, now we're back to this again.

/President Obama, get used to saying it, hope you enjoy his Supreme Court picks because they'll be around a lot longer than he will

Yeah, well you tell me how that hypocrite McCain is any better?

472 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:43:09pm

re: #424 rawmuse

What changed here? Did new rules for banks get written? Did Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get reformed?

No, nor did it have all sorts of other things I'd like to see enacted. This was to put out a fire, *quickly*, not to rewrite the fire codes.

Now we push for our elected representatives to do that, too.

473 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:43:22pm

re: #458 Ward Cleaver

There was some disagreement about that point..

HARRY:
Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us!
ARTHUR:
It is a shoe! It is a shoe!
HARRY:
It's a sandal!
ARTHUR:
No, it isn't!
474 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:43:32pm

re: #467 HoosierHoops

Finally.. We get relief for hollywood...It's surprising the whole industry hasn't colapsed already..If we don't act very soon brad and joline won't be able to adapt another child..WON'T you think of the CHILDREN?
/I'm looking forward to better movies this winter..aren't you?
//

Better, yes. From Hollywood? HA! Surely, you can't be serious.

475 Salem  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:43:36pm

re: #448 nanook

Yeah. But he's so much better than that other candidate. You know the One I mean.

I'm voting for McCain. But I'm not going to bother following politics for awhile. What's the use? It's just masochism.

476 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:43:38pm

re: #445 Han_Solo

Does the Constitution matter AT ALL ANYMORE?

Um, this is not a bill for raising revenue.

477 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:44:24pm

re: #454 Mich-again

From the spigot of libberish at Kos..

There you have it. Follow the Sandal!

The gourd! (Gored? Gorged?)

478 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:44:29pm

re: #471 Random63

Yeah, well you tell me how that hypocrite McCain is any better?

Um, he doesn't hate the country? He doesn't want to preemptively surrender to the jihadists?

479 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:44:34pm

re: #434 Intrepid

Cheaper gas?

No, it's going to reduce the IRC Section 199 deduction for oil producers. In other words, more expensive gas.

480 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:45:13pm

Sarah Palin is the only one of the four to not stand up and shout Yeargh! for this.

481 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:45:15pm

re: #365 cblesz

ACORN is OUT of this bill...

I think you are mistaken

cblesz: I just went thru this bill and you are correct, I coulnt find anything on ACORN or related programs.
My apologies.

482 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:45:26pm

re: #454 Mich-again

From the spigot of libberish at Kos..

There you have it. Follow the Sandal!

I guess the Kommie Kidz are unaware that this is the Senate, not the House, and it is a different bill. It must be difficult to go through life so stupid.

483 Rev. Churchmouse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:45:53pm

I'm not an economist- as the nic would indicate.
But I've been taking a crash course with Fox News, Cavuto, LGF, Powerline, and Michele Malkin.

I almost think I understand marked to market-- here's what I don't get:
1/ Many of the sources above spoke about it and indicated that the effect would be instantaneous and large- in the hundreds of billions- and would serve to make the proposed bailout/rescue drastically reduced in dollars and/or bring about completely different plans.

The accounting change was made, and I haven't heard any interpretation/prediction at all regarding effect.--?

2/ Anybody know why the countries only self-described Socialist Senator, Bernie Sanders voted no?

484 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:45:57pm

re: #476 Occasional Reader

Um, this is not a bill for raising revenue.

Thats for sure.

485 Silhouette  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:46:02pm

Can't all the musicians in Hollywood just sing together on a song, and donate the money to bail this one out?

/We are the Debt. We are the Defaulters. We are the ones who got the subprime loans that you'll be paying.

486 bcgirl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:46:04pm

;-) as i sit here reading LGF my tv is on and practialy a 3 to 1 ratio there is and AD for The ONE,, i have started to sing lalalalalalalalala so i don't have to hear him, hey maybe that is why those muslime women do that ;)

re: #451 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not to put too fine a point on it I don't believe I made a ringing endorsement for the O. I am just pointing out that McCain has feet of clay and has had them for quite some time. I know enough, thank you very much, to not be swooned over the glitter of dross, though. :)

487 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:46:25pm

re: #456 Wishing

Why, Main Street, of course! Main Street, Hollywood.

488 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:46:25pm

re: #477 Sharmuta

The gourd! (Gored? Gorged?)

I knew this wasn't the time to give up gourd smoking.

///

489 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:05pm

re: #476 Occasional Reader

Um, this is not a bill for raising revenue.

Well, not for YOU or ME, anyway...

490 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:28pm

re: #488 FurryOldGuyJeans

I knew this wasn't the time to give up gourd smoking.

///

lolol

491 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:28pm

re: #344 nyc redneck

file, just don't put any money in the envelope. that's not a crime.
the crime is not filing or lying abt. how much you make.

Ask Wesley Snipes about gaming the system on some imagined technicality in the law.

492 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:35pm

re: #457 Random63

I voted for Mel Martinez 4 years ago to represent me

And you thought that meant "do everything I, personally, want him to do"?

493 JohnAdams  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:36pm

re: #475 Salem

I'm voting for McCain. But I'm not going to bother following politics for awhile. What's the use? It's just masochism.

I'm going to stick with my original gut and say that the only person up to this job, at this time, with the brains and courage to see it through, is Newt Gingrich. But the media would do a number on him that would make Sarah Palin cringe.

494 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:46pm

re: #436 spirochete

(a) EXTENSION OF EXPENSING RULES FOR QUALI
FIED FILM AND TELEVISION PRODUCTIONS

So who exactly are we bailing out here?


Everyone except those who tough it out during the hard times that hit them and pay their bills -- so everyone except those who play by the rules.

495 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:47:51pm

re: #470 Joe Six Pack

It's not a link, but I'd start with this- "Are you fuckin' nuts?"

Question his masculinity. I do.

496 Wishing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:48:09pm

re: #487 kevinmumaw

..and same actors, same plots. sigh....

497 izbliss  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:48:37pm

2000 earmarks? Are you kidding me? I don't know how much more of this I can take. It seems like everyone in the MSM has gone nuts.

498 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:49:32pm

Do we get names of people who added pork?

499 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:49:37pm

re: #465 Intrepid

Do you think Jindal's excellent handling of the Gustav preparedness will give Kennedy a leg up? Hope so. We can use every Republican we can get in the senate, because we're on track to lose at least 3-4 seats, at least.

"Democrat" is more of a dirty word in this state than it has ever been in my lifetime. (Think Jefferson, ACORN, Katrina, etc.) Jindal shines quietly and brightly. Kennedy, on the other hand, is also part of the good-ole-boy network, but he does have an "R" next to his name. I believe he has a good chance of taking her seat and she can see the writing on the wall (that nay vote today).

500 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:49:41pm

re: #395 WrathofG-d

ot:

Your Children Are NOW learning that: "Christianity was started by a young Palestinian named Jesus"

Left-wing indoctrination factories - otherwise know as the US education system.

501 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:49:42pm

re: #474 FurryOldGuyJeans

Better, yes. From Hollywood? HA! Surely, you can't be serious.

yea..
Isn't it fun sometimes to watch an old classic and just get caught up in what made hollywood great?
you know just clicking the channels and you come accross the african queen.and you just can't turn it off...Those were movies...

502 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:49:59pm

house server isn't responding so can't get email through

503 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:50:17pm

Will it be against the law to put a "Buck Ofama" bumper sticker on my Chevy?

504 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:50:20pm

re: #483 Rev. Churchmouse

2/ Anybody know why the countries only self-described Socialist Senator, Bernie Sanders voted no?

Because he didn't realize that this bill instantly turns us into a socialist country!

/

505 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:50:28pm

re: #389 MandyManners

It's been a really rough day en la Casa de La Amanda.

Need a drink, sweetie?

Here ya go

I know it's not in your favorite glass, but right now, any port in a storm, eh?

;-)

506 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:50:32pm

re: #483 Rev. Churchmouse

I'm not an economist- as the nic would indicate.
But I've been taking a crash course with Fox News, Cavuto, LGF, Powerline, and Michele Malkin.

I almost think I understand marked to market-- here's what I don't get:
1/ Many of the sources above spoke about it and indicated that the effect would be instantaneous and large- in the hundreds of billions- and would serve to make the proposed bailout/rescue drastically reduced in dollars and/or bring about completely different plans.

The accounting change was made, and I haven't heard any interpretation/prediction at all regarding effect.--?

2/ Anybody know why the countries only self-described Socialist Senator, Bernie Sanders voted no?


He probably thinks this is all about the mean evil capitalists on Wall Street. Seriously, I'm sure that's what he thinks.

507 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:50:47pm

re: #422 spidly

The only hope here is if the House rejects it again or Bush vetoes it. Either way it slows down the process and might get someone actually thinking about addressing the problem rather than looking at this as an opportunity to address their personal pet projects.

508 bcgirl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:51:14pm

supreme court appointments

re: #471 Random63

Yeah, well you tell me how that hypocrite McCain is any better?

509 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:51:31pm

re: #503 Mich-again

Will it be against the law to put a "Buck Ofama" bumper sticker on my Chevy?

Yuck fes, sor fore!

510 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:51:37pm

SEC. 457A. NONQUALIFIED DEFERRED COMPENSATION
11 FROM CERTAIN TAX INDIFFERENT PARTIES.
12 ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Any compensation which is de
ferred under a nonqualified deferred compensation plan of
14 a nonqualified entity shall be includible in gross income
15 when there is no substantial risk of forfeiture of the rights
16 to such compensation.


"includible"? Anyway, it raises taxes on whatever this is it describes.

511 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:51:53pm

re: #501 HoosierHoops

yea..
Isn't it fun sometimes to watch an old classic and just get caught up in what made hollywood great?
you know just clicking the channels and you come accross the african queen.and you just can't turn it off...Those were movies...

That is why I like DVD so much. Getting a lot of the classics to watch when I want with no interruptions. At least no commercials....restroom interruptions work great with DVDs and the pause button.

512 DeliLama  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:52:00pm

I suggest people pick some random part of this bill and read it. It's loaded with unrelated crap. Look at page 364 and below for instance. What's with all the stuff about logging and forests?

Of course Hurricane Ike got in there starting on page 394.

Lots of eco-crap. Look at page 132: Energy credit for geothermal heat pump systems. Because while ordinary small businesses that are actually focus on business might have problems with business line of credit terms (who cares), we need to make sure to pay off people who buy geothermal pumps and all sorts of other politically correct junk.

page 131 qualifying small wind energy property.

page 69: HOPE for Homeowners Amendments (when someone uses the word "hope" in all capital letters, it's probably a good place to look for corruption and pointless economic waste). Check out the bottom of page 73 and the middle of page 74.

Ok, so where the hell is the actual bank bailout?

513 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:52:07pm

re: #509 A Kiwi Infidel

Yuck fes, sor fore fure!

PIMF

514 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:52:50pm

re: #503 Mich-again

Will it be against the law to put a "Buck Ofama" bumper sticker on my Chevy?

In 14 states.. yes

515 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:53:04pm

re: #404 Dasher

SECTION 103 of the bill has a provision to bail out cities and counties, and unions who's pension funds are under funded... mainly because of super lucrative pension plans of public employees. Nothing to do with mortgages.

Unfortunately it has a lot to do with the mortgage problem. Pension funds and hedge funds are heavily into Credit-Default Swaps, Mortgage Backed Securities and CDO's. It's all a house of cards that is going to come crashing down. This bill only delayed the crash it did NOT fix anything.

516 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:53:05pm

Odd that when it was just 110 pages long, the Bill failed in the House, but after adding several hundred pages of pork and earmarks, it passed in the Senate.

517 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:53:07pm

re: #496 Wishing

..and same actors, same plots. sigh....

Hollywod, making movies out of books and remakes of older, better movies since 1955. Haven't had an original thought since Davy Crockett.

518 JohnAdams  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:53:19pm

re: #503 Mich-again

Will it be against the law to put a "Buck Ofama" bumper sticker on my Chevy?

Of course you've seen the "W" with the big red slash on top of it...now we just need the big red slash. If the Dark Day really does occur, you can bet my libtard friends who've been sending me Onion articles for the last 8 years are going to be seeing a lot of that t-shirt.

519 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:53:24pm

re: #478 Occasional Reader

Um, he doesn't hate the country? He doesn't want to preemptively surrender to the jihadists?

Consider how he votes I have to wonder if he really does give a damn anymore about our country and it's people. I think John McCain is a sadist that enjoys pissing off America and pissing on America. I've just had it...I gave him another chance when he selected Palin. I gave him money and campaigned for him...I feel like Charlie Brown and McCain is Lucy. Screw him. I'm done with him and his ilk. Screw them all.

We lose no matter who gets elected. Our country loses no matter who gets elected for president.

520 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:53:25pm

Now there are 100 BILLION in tax breaks in this bill, mainly for business. How in the hell are we going to pay for this. Wall Street is getting bailed out, big business is getting tax breaks, Hmmmm... lets see, who's left... oh... I got the answer. ASSHOLE ME!

521 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:00pm

re: #516 Mich-again

Odd that when it was just 110 pages long, the Bill failed in the House, but after adding several hundred pages of pork and earmarks, it passed in the Senate.

Pork makes it easier for Senators to swallow. Doesn't mean it will be easier to be a suppository for the American people, thought.

522 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:03pm

re: #453 David Simon

Brokers are already required to report proceeds from the sale of securities to the IRS. Now, they're going to have to report cost basis as well. What I want to know in the hell is a broker is going to determine that a corporation has elected Subchapter S status?

Tax specialists see more job security in the offing.

523 Cartman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:03pm

re: #471 Random63

Yeah, well you tell me how that hypocrite McCain is any better?

If you haven't figured that one out by now, there's no further discussion required.

524 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:11pm

re: #395 WrathofG-d

ot:

Your Children Are NOW learning that: "Christianity was started by a young Palestinian named Jesus"

Another reason to defeat Obama -- I shudder to even try to imagine what the children will be taught if he takes office.

525 jaunte  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:28pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

No, Spartacus, I am Asshole.

526 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:32pm

re: #510 spirochete

SEC. 457A. NONQUALIFIED DEFERRED COMPENSATION
11 FROM CERTAIN TAX INDIFFERENT PARTIES.
12 ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Any compensation which is de
ferred under a nonqualified deferred compensation plan of
14 a nonqualified entity shall be includible in gross income
15 when there is no substantial risk of forfeiture of the rights
16 to such compensation.


"includible"? Anyway, it raises taxes on whatever this is it describes.

Not sure where you cut and pasted that from, but that provision has been in effect for a while.

527 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:42pm

re: #514 HoosierHoops

In 14 states.. yes

In Missouri, apparently, as well.

528 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:42pm

re: #510 spirochete

SEC. 457A. NONQUALIFIED DEFERRED COMPENSATION
11 FROM CERTAIN TAX INDIFFERENT PARTIES.

Now I know who I'm voting for ...the Tax Indifferent Party!

Yeah, pay 'em or not, who cares...

529 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:51pm

re: #447 spirochete

This one really takes the cake. "Don't tax any wooden arrows"

SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN
21 WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY
22 CHILDREN.
23 (a) IN GENERAL.—Paragraph (2) of section 4161(b)
24 is amended by redesignating subparagraph (B) as sub301
O:AYOAYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 paragraph (C) and by inserting after subparagraph (A)
2 the following new subparagraph:
3 ‘‘(B) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN WOODEN
4 ARROW SHAFTS.—Subparagraph (A) shall not
5 apply to any shaft consisting of all natural
6 wood with no laminations or artificial means of
7 enhancing the spine of such shaft (whether sold
8 separately or incorporated as part of a finished
9 or unfinished product) of a type used in the
10 manufacture of any arrow which after its as11
sembly—
12 ‘‘(i) measures 5⁄16 of an inch or less in
13 diameter, and
14 ‘‘(ii) is not suitable for use with a bow
15 described in paragraph (1)(A).’’.
16 (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by
17 this section shall apply to shafts first sold after the date
18 of enactment of this Act.

Holy cow, it's the pointy stick protection act!

*Spit* Well, that, and 700 billion of your tax money.

530 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:53pm

O/T, but- Palin says she represents 'Joe Six-pack'

I do not recall voting for her yet...

/I'm just sayin'... : )

531 runrabbitrun  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:54pm

re: #329 Wishing

You are exactly right, Mccain approved the BAILOUT..but this was the bailout PLUS. He could have just as easily SAID: "I support the bailout 100% but I CANNOT, in good conscience endorse this morbidly obese bill."
He didnt do that: He said AYE

Sickening as this all is, Mac just wants the bailout bull, er, bill, content OUT of the headlines and off the first page. It probably won't help much, as the MSM controls media, but it may relieve the pressure of the negative polling reax, which was killing his campaign - if it had gone on for weeks with Mac/Bush in the spotlight, god knows what Quinnipiac could have come up with in ten days.

At least the Obamites cannot make all that much use bringing up this particular pork issue against Mac in their ads or the debate, as their boy voted for it himself. It's the righties who can destroy McCain's chances by pounding that.
Not that I blame them for feeling the rage or wanting a clean sweep, but this election has just devolved from bad or worse to worse or worser.

532 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:54:59pm

re: #519 Random63

We lose no matter who gets elected. Our country loses no matter who gets elected for president.

So, move? I don't know what else to say.

533 wrl1984  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:02pm

Where could i read the bill?

534 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:08pm

re: #505 Intrepid

Need a drink, sweetie?

Here ya go

I know it's not in your favorite glass, but right now, any port in a storm, eh?

;-)

I command my own port!

But, I thank you for your kind words.

535 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:20pm

re: #512 DeliLama

We're in a depression era money crisis and that's why we need to sneak billions of spending into the bailout bill. Makes sense to me. ///

536 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:38pm

re: #512 DeliLama

Actually, as I noted above and in my blog post, only the first 110 pages or so directly relates to the bailout. Of that, the physical bailout with the $700 billion cap, $250 billion initial, and $350 additional starts on page 40.

After page 110, there are three additional subparts, dealing with tax extenders, the AMT tax relief, a mental health program bill, and hurricane Ike relief.

It's all here.

537 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:45pm

re: #508 bcgirl

supreme court appointments

how do you know he wouldn't use the occasion of a SC nomination to "reach out across the aisle"?

538 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:50pm

re: #530 Joe Six Pack

O/T, but- Palin says she represents 'Joe Six-pack'

I do not recall voting for her yet...

/I'm just sayin'... : )

Talk about pull...

539 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:55:56pm

re: #491 CyanSnowHawk

Ask Wesley Snipes about gaming the system on some imagined technicality in the law.

wesley snipes got away w/ murder. he made millions of dollars in the u.s. and transferred it somewhere else and refused to pay taxes on it. he was convicted on some kind of lesser charge. i don't think he even got jail time. which he should have got. but celebrities rarely go to jail. ie O.J.
what i'm talking abt. is a really low level existence. pauper level.
you can't own anything that the go'vt can take. it is uni-bomber shack type living standard. i know people who do this. they make a cash living and keep it all. tho they are honest on their tax form abt. their earnings. they put a note in, 'i couldn't pay, i needed to get my teeth worked on" something like that.
i don't recommend it, at all.
btw, this is not a technicality. it is a chosen life style.

540 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:06pm

re: #522 Catttt

Tax specialists see more job security in the offing.

It'll actually make the tax specialists' jobs easier. It's a nightmare for brokers.

541 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:16pm

I seriously doubt that even one Senator who voted yeargh! has even read this monstrosity.

542 Cartman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:26pm

re: #503 Mich-again

Will it be against the law to put a "Buck Ofama" bumper sticker on my Chevy?

That's hate speech. You could do 20 years. ;)

543 wright1  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:35pm

re: #519 Random63

Consider how he votes I have to wonder if he really does give a damn anymore about our country and it's people. I think John McCain is a sadist that enjoys pissing off America and pissing on America. I've just had it...I gave him another chance when he selected Palin. I gave him money and campaigned for him...I feel like Charlie Brown and McCain is Lucy. Screw him. I'm done with him and his ilk. Screw them all.

We lose no matter who gets elected. Our country loses no matter who gets elected for president.

McCain is not a perfect candidate - far from it. But you are dreadfully underestimating how bad it will be in an Obamination.

544 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:48pm

re: #535 ciaospirit

We're in a depression era money crisis and that's why we need to sneak billions of spending into the bailout bill. Makes sense to me. ///

You obviously are not politician material if you can't see the sense of it all.

545 pittrader1988  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:58pm

We have "convenient conservatives" in the Senate and House. They don't really believe in conservative ideas.

They do it just to get votes, or say "low taxes" blah blah blah.

Get rid of them all, Mitch McConnell, and the rest. Let Jeff Sessions and Shelby lead the new charge.

Let Jeff Flake lead it in the house. They get it.

546 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:56:59pm

re: #530 Joe Six Pack

O/T, but- Palin says she represents 'Joe Six-pack'

I do not recall voting for her yet...

/I'm just sayin'... : )

I think my abs are *pretty* good, but "six-pack"? I dunno.

547 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:03pm

re: #519 Random63

Consider how he votes I have to wonder if he really does give a damn anymore about our country and it's people. I think John McCain is a sadist that enjoys pissing off America and pissing on America. I've just had it...I gave him another chance when he selected Palin. I gave him money and campaigned for him...I feel like Charlie Brown and McCain is Lucy. Screw him. I'm done with him and his ilk. Screw them all.

We lose no matter who gets elected. Our country loses no matter who gets elected for president.

*Smack!* "Snap out of it!" (Channelling Cher in Moonstruck)

McCain is not the best, not what any conservative hoped for. Palin helps the ticket. The efffing alternative is a Marxist Obama presidency. You want that? Be very VERY careful what you wish for.

548 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:06pm
Sec. 117. Carbon audit of the tax code.

WTF is this?

549 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:09pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

Nah, you don't make enough, IIRC. ;)

550 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:12pm

This is the traditional end of session Congressional piñata.

551 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:15pm

re: #272 astronmr20

I think we have something else to do on November 4th...

Unless you mean later in the evening. (:


Are you a NYC lizard too? Post-voting watch sort of thing.

NYC lizards - any ideas for a meetup?

552 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:15pm

re: #492 Occasional Reader

And you thought that meant "do everything I, personally, want him to do"?


No that meant he did NOT do the will of his constituents. When over 90% of Florida tells him "No Amnesty" and "No Bail Out", and he ignores us all, then he deserves to be sent home. He is not representing us as he was hired to do.

553 ibmkeyboard  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:57:36pm

re: #464 Dar ul Harb

We're apparently getting the shaft, but it's only 5/16 of an inch or less in diameter.

Roflol

better than crying.

554 Rev. Churchmouse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:58:08pm

re: #512 DeliLama

when someone uses the word "hope" in all capital letters, it's probably a good place to look for corruption and pointless economic waste


I think thats the secular version of the rule I learned in Churchland.

If the words "peace" and "justice" are used in a Church group's name, it's about becoming useful idiots for insurrection and fighting against any concept that civiliazation requires laws.

555 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:58:08pm

re: #534 MandyManners

I command my own port!

But, I thank you for your kind words.

That's not port anyway, looks more like whiskey.

/

556 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:58:17pm

re: #516 Mich-again

Because those are additional issues that people wanted to see pass, such as the AMT relief provision. These are issues that Congress never dealt with before their adjournment for the Labor Day recess. So, they're throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the bill to get it pass.

The Senate Majority Leadership figures that if they throw enough stuff in, there's something for everyone and it will pass, because someone's pet issue will be addressed.

557 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:58:19pm

re: #529 Palandine

Holy cow, it's the pointy stick protection act!

*Spit* Well, that, and 700 billion of your tax money.

The wooden arrow thing really got me - even more than the rum thing, and I don't drink. I don't arrow either.

558 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:58:26pm

re: #542 Cartman

re: #503 Mich-again

Will it be against the law to put a "Buck Ofama" bumper sticker on my Chevy?

That's hate speech. You could do 20 years. ;)

Right now 20 years might be preferable to 4 years of Obama. ;)

559 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:58:31pm

re: #430 WrathofG-d

Wow - tough to fit Jesus into being a Palestinian when he was born of Jewish parents who both had long Jewish ancestral lineages, was dedicated in the Temple with his parents making the sacrifice offering of the poor (two turtledoves, IIRC), and all the time he spent in his adult life in Synagogues.

As a Christian, I will not surrender Jesus over to the RoP. Isn't it enough that they have all the oil? Now they want my savior, too?

/spit

560 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:59:18pm

re: #526 David Simon

Not sure where you cut and pasted that from, but that provision has been in effect for a while.

David, I'm impressed that you know right away the significance of these snippets. I'm reading through the bill and pasting things that look either important or "funny" if you can call it that. Maybe I should've linked more of what came after.

It seems to me that a lot of this stuff is extending deadlines of things that are already in effect, like advancing the expiration date a year.

561 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:59:30pm

re: #551 Irene NYC

Are you a NYC lizard too? Post-voting watch sort of thing.

NYC lizards - any ideas for a meetup?

would love to do a meet up.
maybe in oct. when newsjunkie_ky comes to town.

562 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 7:59:31pm

re: #470 Joe Six Pack

It's not a link, but I'd start with this- "Are you fuckin' nuts?"

Some guy he works with has been brainwashing him, and my MiL (his mother) asked me for help in deprogramming him.

563 wrl1984  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:03pm

I am Pretty sure Wesley Snips got at least a year in jail.

564 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:08pm

Lots of folks hot under the collar. It is because our system demands compromise. This is also why Senators make bad executive material. Win or lose I hope we get another dose of Palin in '12. After four years of McCain of course.

565 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:22pm

Your rifle may be illegal in an Obama administration, but you can still have a bow. As long as you only use wooden arrows.

566 flynmudd  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:29pm

I think this is a Rove plot to prove to the public that the Dems are socialist and if they have control of both the WH and the pocketbook this will just be child's play.

567 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:32pm

DeMint on Levin said he has a theory that Congress wanted to push this through because China and others are refusing loans to the US until they cover these bad loans. Congress is running scared. He also said that we should not send our men and women to die for freedom when we're giving it away in the halls of Congress.

568 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:44pm

re: #536 lawhawk

Actually, as I noted above and in my blog post, only the first 110 pages or so directly relates to the bailout. Of that, the physical bailout with the $700 billion cap, $250 billion initial, and $350 additional starts on page 40.

After page 110, there are three additional subparts, dealing with tax extenders, the AMT tax relief, a mental health program bill, and hurricane Ike relief.

It's all here.

Well, that sucks! And is what I feared with the Senate taking over "re-writing" the bill. Now I REALLY hope the House sends the bill packing. A bad bill is worse that a so-so bad bill and no matter what gets passed, taxpayers have a huge stake.

569 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:45pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

Now there are 100 BILLION in tax breaks in this bill, mainly for business. How in the hell are we going to pay for this. Wall Street is getting bailed out, big business is getting tax breaks, Hmmmm... lets see, who's left... oh... I got the answer. ASSHOLE ME!

New shirts for everyone:

I'M THE ASSHOLE THAT'S BAILING YOU OUT!

Brilliant Walter!

570 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:00:53pm

re: #563 wrl1984

I am Pretty sure Wesley Snips got at least a year in jail.

i don't think he got any jail time, amazingly.

571 pittrader1988  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:01:09pm

re: #523 Cartman

I will vote for McCain, because Obama is worse!

572 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:01:16pm

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

Now there are 100 BILLION in tax breaks in this bill, mainly for business. How in the hell are we going to pay for this. Wall Street is getting bailed out, big business is getting tax breaks, Hmmmm... lets see, who's left... oh... I got the answer. ASSHOLE ME!

Yep Walter- we little "guys" are just that. We are insignificant to the hollywood democrat elite. The holy and precious all knowing cabal of democrat-for-life congress jokers know what's best. They can rape the system - and then write 145 pages of pork. and we get to sick back and watch Harry and Nancy slap backs and say "bipartisan". Next, Obama's going to come in and make our lives a living hell. Hope!

If Obama gets in I'm quiting my job. I'm going to live on nothing just to make sure that asshole and his cabal of corrupt demo-hacks don't see a thin dime from me.
I know others who are taking it all off the table. If Obama gets in I am personally going to do what I can to screw up the economy.

573 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:01:34pm

re: #546 Occasional Reader

I think my abs are *pretty* good, but "six-pack"? I dunno.

Believe me, I have a six pack somewhere, but it ain't there.

574 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:01:52pm

re: #552 Random63

No that meant he did NOT do the will of his constituents. When over 90% of Florida tells him "No Amnesty" and "No Bail Out", and he ignores us all, then he deserves to be sent home. He is not representing us as he was hired to do.

You got that right!

575 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:07pm

re: #546 Occasional Reader

I think my abs are *pretty* good, but "six-pack"? I dunno.

I hope Sarah doesn't say "joe six pack" too much. I'm already tired of it.

576 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:16pm

re: #538 kevinmumaw

Talk about pull...

I think I will...Another Bud Light! : )

577 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:19pm

re: #548 kevinmumaw

(a) STUDY.—The Secretary of the Treasury shall enter into an agreement with the National Academy of Sciences to undertake a comprehensive review of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to identify the types of and specific tax provisions that have the largest effects on carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions and to estimate the magnitude of those effects.
20 (b) REPORT.—Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the National Academy of Sciences shall submit to Congress a report containing the results of study authorized under this section.
24 (c) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.—There is authorized to be appropriated to carry out this section $1,500,000 for the period of fiscal years 2009 and 2010.

This is absolute nonsense. If they wanted to measure the effect of greenhouse gases, they ought to start with the fact that the IRC itself kills more trees than you can ever imagine with all the regs, notes, and other related publications explaining the publications.

It's bad decisions based on junk science.

578 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:20pm

re: #572 FrogMarch

Yep Walter- we little "guys" are just that. We are insignificant to the hollywood democrat elite. The holy and precious all knowing cabal of democrat-for-life congress jokers know what's best. They can rape the system - and then write 145 pages of pork. and we get to sick back and watch Harry and Nancy slap backs and say "bipartisan". Next, Obama's going to come in and make our lives a living hell. Hope!

If Obama gets in I'm quiting my job. I'm going to live on nothing just to make sure that asshole and his cabal of corrupt demo-hacks don't see a thin dime from me.
I know others who are taking it all off the table. If Obama gets in I am personally going to do what I can to screw up the economy.

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

579 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:32pm

re: #559 Intrepid

As a Christian, I will not surrender Jesus over to the RoP. Isn't it enough that they have all the oil? Now they want my savior, too?

/spit

They already claimed him as Issa.

580 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:36pm

I wish there really was a "way back machine".

Or a reset button.

581 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:39pm

re: #545 pittrader1988

We have "convenient conservatives" in the Senate and House. They don't really believe in conservative ideas.

They do it just to get votes, or say "low taxes" blah blah blah.

Get rid of them all, Mitch McConnell, and the rest. Let Jeff Sessions and Shelby lead the new charge.

Let Jeff Flake lead it in the house. They get it.

i'm with you there, these guys actually walk the walk.

582 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:39pm

re: #548 kevinmumaw

WTF is this?

Carbon Audit of the tax code? Isn't he that really lame Canadian Super Hero/ civil servant that children will be forced to watch once they put the obamanauts in charge of education?

583 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:46pm

re: #548 kevinmumaw

WTF is this?

Oh brother. It's an audit of the tax code to determine which provisions have the greatest effect on the "environment."

584 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:02:57pm

re: #556 lawhawk

Because those are additional issues that people wanted to see pass, such as the AMT relief provision. These are issues that Congress never dealt with before their adjournment for the Labor Day recess. So, they're throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the bill to get it pass.

The Senate Majority Leadership figures that if they throw enough stuff in, there's something for everyone and it will pass, because someone's pet issue will be addressed.

And that's the worst of all possible outcomes. It will be interesting to see what Wall St. has to say, although any bailout for them will mean business as usual and the stock market can continue on its pyramid-style climb.

585 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:03:15pm

re: #547 Russkilitlover

*Smack!* "Snap out of it!" (Channeling Cher in Moonstruck)

McCain is not the best, not what any conservative hoped for. Palin helps the ticket. The efffing alternative is a Marxist Obama presidency. You want that? Be very VERY careful what you wish for.


I wish for Reagan. I wish for Representatives that actually represent us. I wish for my republic back.

I'm out of here...got to go to bed...will be calling Congress tomorrow and try to stop this abomination.

Good night...and good riddance John McCain.

586 Joe Six Pack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:03:22pm

re: #563 wrl1984

I am Pretty sure Wesley Snips got at least a year in jail.

3 years, one for each guilty count.

587 kansas  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:03:24pm

Didn't anyone here see the market dump after the house failed to pass this. Didn't we learn in macro econ that government had to prime the pump? You all want a depression, bank failures, and to lose your 401 Ks go ahead without me.

588 runrabbitrun  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:03:38pm

re: #501 HoosierHoops

yea..
Isn't it fun sometimes to watch an old classic and just get caught up in what made hollywood great?
you know just clicking the channels and you come accross the african queen.and you just can't turn it off...Those were movies...

And the narratives, lighting, facial expressions and themes of so many of them were .... corny as it sounds - uplifting. You left the theater feeling good about people.

The grampa rabbit and I love to watch them. After leaving a modern flick, the movie and the message too often make us feel like we've been in a sewer and we need a good bath.

589 wrl1984  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:03:42pm

Wesley Snipes is currentley serving three years in federal prison.

590 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:04:47pm

The best news item all day was the "drunken cow arrested" story.

591 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:04:47pm

re: #551 Irene NYC

Are you a NYC lizard too? Post-voting watch sort of thing.

NYC lizards - any ideas for a meetup?

I'll share with others and get back to you, feel free to contact offline.

592 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:01pm

BTW...sorry Cubs fans.

593 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:09pm

re: #584 Russkilitlover

Wall Street wants the bailout because it takes the risk of loss out of Wall Street investors and the banks and puts it on someone else (the taxpayer). They'll get to continue playing musical chairs with the toxic paper, even though the cause of the crisis - the subprime lending, will continue and Congress continues to push for lending to subprimes.

594 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:17pm

re: #560 spirochete

David, I'm impressed that you know right away the significance of these snippets.

Don't be; it's what I do for a living. ;->

595 wrl1984  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:22pm

NYC lizard here!

596 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:31pm

re: #589 wrl1984

Wesley Snipes is currentley serving three years in federal prison.

well, that's good to know. he cheated. he lied abt. how much he made.

597 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:41pm

re: #578 kevinmumaw

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

I'm moving to Galt's Gulch.

598 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:05:53pm

re: #588 runrabbitrun

Now this is a rabbit. But its not going to run anywhere.

599 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:06:05pm

re: #14 nyc redneck

I agree, and they do not give a damn about the voters. That the Demonrats started this years ago does not negate the responsibility of the White House and the Republicans to do the right thing.

They all, because so many are up for re-election, pander to the lowest element, and thus the Barney Franks and his buddies are smirking.

It is not for us, the taxpayers, to pay for this when we are facing so much, and our kids and grandkids will pay for this even more than we will.

This is the most selfish, irresponsible Congress that I can recall in my 70 years.

I am livid.

Pork barrel? No,vastly over-inflated egos, and perks that are obscene, especially their medical care.

They all suck.

600 devil in baggy pants  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:06:21pm

Dick Morris said McCain's vote was a

"failure of guts"

601 Stonemason  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:06:23pm

re: #445 Han_Solo

This does not raise revenue, it spends it.

602 wrl1984  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:08:58pm

re: #596 nyc redneck

603 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:09:00pm

re: #471 Random63

Yeah, well you tell me how that hypocrite McCain is any better?

Why is Barack Obama deadly to the US?

He wants to sit down, with no pre-conditions, and "talk" with the Presidents of Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela.

He wants to drastically cut military spending, and also to do away with our nuclear arsenal.

He wants to tax the bejeebus out of the ones who are the creators of businesses and jobs, while giving tax breaks to "95 percent" of Americans, which is bogus, because 40 percent of Americans pay no taxes at all. That means he'll spend major bucks in writing checks to that 40 percent.

He wants to institute a national health care system that will make this 700 billion dollar bailout look like elementary school lunch money. And this will diminish the quality of healthcare in this country.

You want more? Cause there is way more than this.

You can sit on your ass and not vote for McCain because of this one vote, but I for one am not willing to give up my country and its freedoms over to a socialist who will take away what freedoms we still have.

604 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:09:08pm

re: #570 nyc redneck

i don't think he got any jail time, amazingly.

Nope. He got the max - three years and a $5 million fine.

605 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:09:08pm

Charles? I just opened another tab to pull up LGF and I received and internal server error:

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@littlegreenfootballs.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

606 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:09:41pm

The youngsters here are easy to identify. They have yet to experience the consequences of that greater of two evils thing.

607 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:09:57pm

re: #539 nyc redneck

Snipes got 3 years the maximum sentence that was allowed.

You initial post sounded like a recommendation to follow yet another idiotic tax scheme. This followup comment sounds like a supporting argument for it, if one doesn't mind living like the Unabomber. Taxes are a responsibility that one does not just walk away from, regardless of one feels about how they are spent. Don't feel like paying, then we have this cozy little room for you with a safe and secure door on it.

608 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:10:01pm

re: #587 kansas

Didn't anyone here see the market dump after the house failed to pass this. Didn't we learn in macro econ that government had to prime the pump? You all want a depression, bank failures, and to lose your 401 Ks go ahead without me.


There were other ideas out there that deserved a hearing -- all were less costly dollar wise and less socialistic -- if that didn't work, then we would need to do the worst thing, but not as a first step -- but everyone in charge developed tunnel vision

609 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:10:10pm

re: #605 Sharmuta

It went bye-bye already. Nevermind.

610 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:10:30pm

re: #577 lawhawk

This is absolute nonsense. If they wanted to measure the effect of greenhouse gases, they ought to start with the fact that the IRC itself kills more trees than you can ever imagine with all the regs, notes, and other related publications explaining the publications.

It's bad decisions based on junk science.

Well, there goes $1.5 million of our cash. For absolutely NOTHING. I swear, if I didn't have so much shady crap in my background, i would run for congress and do nothing except tell everybody else how much they suck. Oh, and I would go to all the hoity toity fundraisers for special interests like ACORN and such and embarrass everyone.

611 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:10:37pm

oh snap!

SEC. 350. BREAKIN' AND POPPIN'
21 ALFONSO RIBEIRO INSTRUCTIONAL VHS,
22 ILLUSTRATED BOOKLET, DANCE PAD
23 (a) IN GENERAL.—Paragraph (2) of section 4161(b)
24 is amended by redesignating subparagraph (B) as sub301
O:AYOAYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 paragraph (C) and by inserting after subparagraph (A)
2 the following new subparagraph:
3 ‘‘(B) A tape in every VCR
4 breakin' and poppin'.—Subparagraph (A) shall
5 be provided to every home regardless of
6 gender, race, age, political affiliation, or
7 sexual orientation of occupants
8 enhancing funkiness of all. Dance pads (whether sold
9 separately or incorporated as part of a finished
10 or unfinished product) of a type used in the
11 manufacture of any breakin' and poppin' asssembly
12 ‘‘(i) measures 3' x 3' or more in
13 area, and
14 ‘‘(ii) is suitable for use on all surfaces known the hood
15 described in paragraph (1)(A).’’.
16 (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by
17 this section shall apply to shafts first sold after the date
18 of enactment of this Act.

612 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:10:40pm

re: #561 nyc redneck

would love to do a meet up.
maybe in oct. when newsjunkie_ky comes to town.

Looks at calendar, uh nycr it is isn't it?

re: #599 NY Nana

Nana now that is a plain lie, from here I can see you are half that age.

613 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:10:43pm

re: #604 Catttt

Nope. He got the max - three years and a $5 million fine.

But.... who'll protect us from vampires?!

614 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:11:35pm

re: #561 nyc redneck

would love to do a meet up.
maybe in oct. when newsjunkie_ky comes to town.

NYC redneck, we were thinking on election night, but meeting twice would be fine.
;)

615 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:11:37pm

re: #606 The Shadow Do

I would feel better about the Bailout if it even attempted to address the source of the problem. It didn't. Its another fix for the addict.

616 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:11:39pm

re: #609 Sharmuta

I had it too. Just a blip on the internets. A "disturbance in the force" if you will.

617 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:11:47pm

re: #557 Catttt

The wooden arrow thing really got me - even more than the rum thing, and I don't drink. I don't arrow either.

If you can't shoot 'em from a bow ("Eek! A weapon!"--The dems) I question whether they are in fact arrows. It sounds like a souvenir thing.

Next up, the Cheesy Made In China Dreamcatcher Protection Act.

/and 700 million more of your money, which we double dog swear will make profit and pay off the debt. :(

618 FightingBack  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:02pm

Feingold, Nay?

619 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:11pm

re: #593 lawhawk

And so housing goes into a 10 year recovery cycle, instead of 2. Inflation and probably stagnation in store. And a possible Dem administration across the board - WH and Congress.

This bill by the Senate must NOT pass!. Call you Senators and Congresspersons. This is not good and taxpayers will be left holding the ball as time runs out.

620 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:15pm

re: #597 FrogMarch

I'm moving to Galt's Gulch.

I haven't read Atlas Shrugged since 1995. Tme to dust it off, apparently.

621 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:24pm

re: #594 David Simon


Where 'bouts?

622 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:27pm

Again, I ask...can the pork be traced?

623 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:45pm

Hmmm, the "new comments" button is greyed out now.

Firefox 3.0.3, on XP SP2.

624 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:12:50pm

re: #616 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had it too. Just a blip on the internets. A "disturbance in the force" if you will.

Glad it wasn't just me!

625 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:13:10pm

re: #592 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

BTW...sorry Cubs fans.


A buddy of mine called after the game and said...
You know what Jesus told the Cubs don't you?
I said...well no..what?
Don't go anywhere until i come back..
*groan*

626 wrl1984  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:13:27pm

re: #607 CyanSnowHawk

Snipes got 3 years the maximum sentence that was allowed.

You initial post sounded like a recommendation to follow yet another idiotic tax scheme. This followup comment sounds like a supporting argument for it, if one doesn't mind living like the Unabomber. Taxes are a responsibility that one does not just walk away from, regardless of one feels about how they are spent. Don't feel like paying, then we have this cozy little room for you with a safe and secure door on it.

Thanks for your input. You just described what it is to be an american citizen.

627 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:13:47pm

re: #601 Stonemason

Stone!

Go boy, one down.

How you been?

628 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:14:28pm

re: #623 Ward Cleaver

some tweeking goin on

reload page

629 MPH  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:14:56pm

Call and write your representatives ASAP!

This unconstitutional bailout MUST NOT PASS.

630 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:15:05pm

re: #616 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had it too. Just a blip on the internets. A "disturbance in the force" if you will.

And me with a brilliant, paradigm shifting comment sent to post that was lost in the ether.

That's kinda been my week so far! LOL!

631 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:15:11pm

well Schumer really has his finger on the pulse. the quote below was from last Thursday, before the first vote. I guess to him a few outliers are 228 house members, and so much for no Christmas tree.

Sen. Charles Schumer, the chairman of the committee, said that all but "a few outliers" among lawmakers agreed that some version of the plan to rescue the American financial system must be approved, and soon. But he said it would not be passed without adequate safeguards.

"We will not be dilatory, we will not add extra amendments, we will not Christmas-tree this bill," Mr. Schumer, D-N.Y., said, a reference to the lawmakers' occasional propensity to tack special-interest items onto legislation.

632 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:15:13pm

re: #603 Intrepid


You can sit on your ass and not vote for McCain because of this one vote, but I for one am not willing to give up my country and its freedoms over to a socialist who will take away what freedoms we still have.


Socialist is too mild -- Marxist, Fascist -- either one fits much better.

633 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:15:23pm

re: #589 wrl1984

Wesley Snipes is currentley serving three years in federal prison.

Well, at least according to Wikipedia, he's not, until he's lost his appeals.

He's still making direct-to-video movies.

634 David Simon  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:16:01pm

re: #621 spirochete

Where 'bouts?

The bluer than blue city of Chicago.

635 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:16:04pm

re: #626 wrl1984

Thanks for your input. You just described what it is to be an american citizen.

Typos and everything. I really should use preview.

636 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:16:19pm

I'm guessing Barack Obama,and Chris Dodd had a hand in writing Section 108: Conflicts of Interest, since it has nothing to do with their actual conflicts of interest in this whole debacle.

637 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:16:28pm

re: #596 nyc redneck

well, that's good to know. he cheated. he lied abt. how much he made.

Show me in the constitution where it says that vampires have to pay taxes...
:)

638 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:16:58pm

Dodgers baby!

639 runrabbitrun  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:16:58pm

re: #598 Mich-again

Now this is a rabbit. But its not going to run anywhere.

me wanty the big bunny - he is sooooo cute.

(showed to the other half, he said he'd be happy to teach it to jump into a stew-pot with a couple of onions and a nice little bouquet garni)

640 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:17:17pm

re: #630 Russkilitlover

And me with a brilliant, paradigm shifting comment sent to post that was lost in the ether.

That's kinda been my week so far! LOL!

Just like the little girl in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

641 kevinmumaw  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:17:23pm

re: #629 MPH

Call and write your representatives ASAP!

This unconstitutional bailout MUST NOT PASS.

Screw that, I'm going to bed. John Galt mode ON.

642 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:17:26pm

re: #612 lifeofthemind

Nana now that is a plain lie, from here I can see you are half that age.

Please see your Ophthalmologist ASAP!;)

Uh, for my real age, check my avatar!

And thank you soooo much for the first laugh today.

643 Stonemason  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:17:27pm

re: #627 formercorpsman

Been fine, just real busy. you?

644 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:18:02pm

re: #599 NY Nana
i agree, it is so disheartening. i feel sick to my stomach.
i don't even want to eat a piece of apple pie.

645 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:18:21pm

re: #615 Mich-again

I would feel better about the Bailout if it even attempted to address the source of the problem. It didn't. Its another fix for the addict.

Perhaps, though there are some palliatives that may come out of it. One thing is for sure and that is that it is absolutely necessary to put folks in power that may be committed to addressing the source of the problem. I'm pretty sure that would not be Obama et all.

646 kansas  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:18:28pm

re: #608 ChildOfMary

There were other ideas out there that deserved a hearing -- all were less costly dollar wise and less socialistic -- if that didn't work, then we would need to do the worst thing, but not as a first step -- but everyone in charge developed tunnel vision

Well, when the house voted down the bill the market barked a pretty loud response and I took a bath. Personally I've lost 50 grand since last year. I know it's not much compared to what some have, but I don't want to lose it all. I think we make a mistake comparing our personal finances to macro economics. I see people saying, its a 700 billion dollar fleece of the taxpayers, like they are gonna pay it. I can't say I understand it all, but when the market dumps 5% in one day because of something, then I say that pretty much is a good guideline.

647 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:18:31pm

re: #631 alien_mind

well Schumer really has his finger on the pulse. the quote below was from last Thursday, before the first vote. I guess to him a few outliers are 228 house members, and so much for no Christmas tree.

Sen. Charles Schumer, the chairman of the committee, said that all but "a few outliers" among lawmakers agreed that some version of the plan to rescue the American financial system must be approved, and soon. But he said it would not be passed without adequate safeguards.

"We will not be dilatory, we will not add extra amendments, we will not Christmas-tree this bill," Mr. Schumer, D-N.Y., said, a reference to the lawmakers' occasional propensity to tack special-interest items onto legislation.

You know how to tell is Schumer is lying? His lips will be moving.

648 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:18:40pm

re: #598 Mich-again

Now this is a rabbit. But its not going to run anywhere.

Wow. That'd make a pretty good size Hossenpfeffer!

649 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:18:57pm

re: #630 Russkilitlover

And me with a brilliant, paradigm shifting comment sent to post that was lost in the ether.

That's kinda been my week so far! LOL!

all of my most brilliant thoughts end up getting lost, alas!

650 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:19:25pm

re: #639 runrabbitrun

me wanty the big bunny - he is sooooo cute.

(showed to the other half, he said he'd be happy to teach it to jump into a stew-pot with a couple of onions and a nice little bouquet garni)

I had a dwarf dutch bunny (named Hector) as one of my pets as a kid. It lived a great life for 4 years, which, I understand is long for a bunny. Amazing the personality in Hector. I had a big, fat tangerine cat who LOVED him and would jump into his enclosure and just hang with him.

Now I have the cottontails destroying my yard and they don't look so cute.....

651 Random63  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:19:44pm

re: #603 Intrepid

You can sit on your ass and not vote for McCain because of this one vote, but I for one am not willing to give up my country and its freedoms over to a socialist who will take away what freedoms we still have.

It's not just this one vote don't you see? He's always screwed the people and enjoyed doing it. They call him a maverick, but he really is a sadist that disrepects the American voter, especially conservitives.

And, remember, he just voted for socialism tonight...it was called a "Bail out" at the taxpayer's expense...he just voted for the socialism of our markets. He's no better than Obama.

652 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:19:45pm

re: #615 Mich-again

I would feel better about the Bailout if it even attempted to address the source of the problem. It didn't. Its another fix for the addict.

That is what I posted earlier to Occasional Reader. Without reform, this will be the first of many bailouts.

653 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:20:08pm

re: #628 spidly

some tweeking goin on

reload page

I just reloaded, still greyed out.

Charles!?!

654 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:20:25pm

re: #534 MandyManners

I command my own port!

But, I thank you for your kind words.

Okay, Here's your port, as commanded!

heh.

655 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:20:26pm

re: #640 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just like the little girl in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

Exactly! You got it in one!

656 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:20:28pm

re: #629 MPH

Call and write your representatives ASAP!

This unconstitutional bailout MUST NOT PASS.

Nope. Prefer not to go broke in my old age. Thanks.

657 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:20:46pm

re: #639 runrabbitrun

That would take a stew pot the size of this bailout.

658 izbliss  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:20:58pm

Man, the House of Representatives website must be getting slammed. I've been trying to write my representateive for the last 45 min and I keep getting 404 errors or timeout errors.

659 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:21:03pm

re: #631 alien_mind


"We will not be dilatory, we will not add extra amendments, we will not Christmas-tree this bill," Mr. Schumer, D-N.Y., said, a reference to the lawmakers' occasional propensity to tack special-interest items onto legislation.

maybe he can just say they were just putting stones on this bills grave

660 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:21:05pm

re: #652 rawmuse

That is what I posted earlier to Occasional Reader. Without reform, this will be the first of many bailouts.

And like I said, this bill is the fire brigade, not the reform of the building code. Okay, the larded up fire brigade, but still. It doesn't mean we quit fighting.

661 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:21:17pm

re: #610 kevinmumaw

Well, there goes $1.5 million of our cash. For absolutely NOTHING. I swear, if I didn't have so much shady crap in my background, i would run for congress and do nothing except tell everybody else how much they suck. Oh, and I would go to all the hoity toity fundraisers for special interests like ACORN and such and embarrass everyone.

I think having "shady crap" in your background is a plus. Especially if you run as a democrat. Media will run interference for you.

Actually - that's a great idea. run as a "dino".

662 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:21:32pm

re: #605 Sharmuta

Me too, but we're all feeling much better now, right?

663 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:21:48pm

re: #643 Stonemason

Same.

You been working outside in the rain?

664 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:21:53pm

My paradigm shifted once. Ended up having to go see the chiropractor to get it put back into place.

665 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:22:14pm

re: #655 Russkilitlover

Exactly! You got it in one!

That part of the book just seems to get glossed over by folks I talk to that have read it. I think it is in the top five most important moments in the book (and it just slips by).

666 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:22:17pm

re: #658 izbliss

Man, the House of Representatives website must be getting slammed. I've been trying to write my representateive for the last 45 min and I keep getting 404 errors or timeout errors.

same here. betcha the switchboard it lit up too

667 Russkilitlover  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:22:34pm

re: #651 Random63

He's no better than Obama.

Guess again. Obama would be much worse.

668 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:22:36pm

re: #652 rawmuse

That is what I posted earlier to Occasional Reader. Without reform, this will be the first of many bailouts.

Oh come on rawmuse. How much do you expect them to put in one small bill. There's enough in there already using up a lot of trees. And now you want reform. Geeesssh.

669 Opilio  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:23:16pm

re: #651 Random63

He's no better than Obama.

POPPYCOCK!

670 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:23:27pm

re: #607 CyanSnowHawk

Snipes got 3 years the maximum sentence that was allowed.

You initial post sounded like a recommendation to follow yet another idiotic tax scheme. This followup comment sounds like a supporting argument for it, if one doesn't mind living like the Unabomber. Taxes are a responsibility that one does not just walk away from, regardless of one feels about how they are spent. Don't feel like paying, then we have this cozy little room for you with a safe and secure door on it.

oh stop. i hardly recommend this approach.
a poster stated they felt like NOT paying any taxes.
i described a situation i know abt. where someone i fact does not pay taxes.
it isn't something i'd do because i don't particularly want to live like that.
and believe me i pay plenty of taxes.

671 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:23:39pm

re: #660 Occasional Reader

And like I said, this bill is the fire brigade, not the reform of the building code. Okay, the larded up fire brigade, but still. It doesn't mean we quit fighting.

It is a fight I would rather not do with a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and President. Reform will never happen in that environment.

672 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:23:40pm

Good night y'all. See you for the debate.

673 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:23:41pm

re: #660 Occasional Reader

And like I said, this bill is the fire brigade, not the reform of the building code. Okay, the larded up fire brigade, but still. It doesn't mean we quit fighting.

The Fire Brigade with the Ambulance chasers in hot pursuit?

674 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:39pm

You Shall Not PASS!

675 Stonemason  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:49pm

re: #663 formercorpsman

Not so much in the rain with the stone things but I have a real job too. Add to that one Youth athletics board, Scouts, Church and, oh shucks, normal life.

The past week has hurt the side jobs for sure!

676 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:51pm

Between this bailout and the Sox down on an unearned run, not even the Bells Oberon I am enjoying has me smiling.

677 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:52pm

re: #647 FrogMarch

You know how to tell Schumer is lying? His lips will be moving.

fixed...

678 quercus albus  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:52pm

Just wrote to both of my senators who voted "yes". The one running for re-election this year won't get help here. I WILL be voting for my representative who stood firm in the House earlier this week.

So disappointing.

Sigh. Someone wake me up when Reagan comes back.

679 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:53pm

The longer this goes on, the less I think it is necessary, or desirable, or will even work.

The lack of expertise exhibited by the banks, by the fed, by the treasury, by the MSM, is astounding. I know a little about this stuff, and I've worked with people who know a lot, but I don't see *any* of that kind of expert in evidence. Maybe we need to let things hit the wall, and pick up the pieces.

680 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:24:56pm

re: #658 izbliss

Man, the House of Representatives website must be getting slammed. I've been trying to write my representateive for the last 45 min and I keep getting 404 errors or timeout errors.

Me to,,but mine is the 2nd of Texas-Jhonson,he will not vote for this.But i still want to remind him.

681 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:25:05pm

re: #633 Dar ul Harb

Well, at least according to Wikipedia, he's not, until he's lost his appeals.

He's still making direct-to-video movies.

i didn;t think he was in jail.

682 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:25:30pm

re: #666 spidly

same here. betcha the switchboard it lit up too

Try this. Type in the name of your rep plus house.gov

boustany.house.gov for my rep, and it's working now.

683 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:25:32pm

Been fun and real. Later all.

Next stop, VP debates.

Don't take any wooden arrows.

684 Palandine  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:25:50pm

re: #646 kansas

It's blackmail. Tuesday had a big increase, and today was steady. There's no rush besides the one the administration, Paulson, and Bernanke are making. Panic and rushing makes bad legislation. Let it burn.

My investments have gone to hell, and the more the government intervenes, the worse it will be, for them and our individual freedom.

I was all ginned up or this vote on Monday. But the apocalypse didn't come, and it didn't come two days later. Part of Congress couldn't be bothered to come in because of a holiday, and the other half came up ith a prok-laden monstrosity of a bill. These are not the acts of people who are looking into the abyss. It's a scam and a money and power grab.

685 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:17pm

re: #678 quercus albus

Just wrote to both of my senators who voted "yes". The one running for re-election this year won't get help here. I WILL be voting for my representative who stood firm in the House earlier this week.

So disappointing.

Sigh. Someone wake me up when Reagan comes back.

The Second Coming?

686 nyc redneck  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:18pm

re: #637 HoosierHoops

Show me in the constitution where it says that vampires have to pay taxes...
:)

i think the crime is the deceit.

687 Rev. Churchmouse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:22pm

re: #605 Sharmuta

Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Bummer. I don't think that made the Senate Bill for a tax deduction.

688 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:30pm

re: #662 itellu3times

Me too, but we're all feeling much better now, right?

Yes- all is well in the universe again. The internal server error has gone the way of the dodo- for now at least.

689 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:31pm

re: #613 Occasional Reader

But.... who'll protect us from vampires?!

We can still rely on Vampire Hunter D.

690 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:40pm

re: #646 kansas

Well, when the house voted down the bill the market barked a pretty loud response and I took a bath. Personally I've lost 50 grand since last year. I know it's not much compared to what some have, but I don't want to lose it all. I think we make a mistake comparing our personal finances to macro economics. I see people saying, its a 700 billion dollar fleece of the taxpayers, like they are gonna pay it. I can't say I understand it all, but when the market dumps 5% in one day because of something, then I say that pretty much is a good guideline.

Sorry about your losses. Some say the market behaves like a spoiled child -- I still believe, with others, that there were different steps that could be taken to accomplish the same thing and would be better for all of us.

We actually bailed out of the market with what we had made to that point sometime last spring. Our window -- that is, when might need to make use of some of our investment, seemed shorter than we believed it would take for the coming crises to play themselves out.

This is not the end of it, there is more trouble ahead, and few of our leaders have the guts to be honest with us about that.

691 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:26:42pm

Time for bed.

"Good night, Congress. Good work. Sleep well. We'll most likely kill you in the morning."

692 2by2  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:27:18pm

re: #234 lifeofthemind

That's an idea. I was thinking of poll watching, pays a little better than unemployment. But pencil me in. Tomorrow I'm meeting a friend for brunch then walking over to see the Intrepid come back.

that's a great idea, please count me in as well.

693 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:27:30pm

re: #691 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Time for bed.

"Good night, Congress. Good work. Sleep well. We'll most likely kill you in the morning."

Dread Pirate Citizen?

694 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:28:12pm

re: #682 pink freud

got that far but email form not working, the little poll not working. probably a gagillion forms going to the inbox with "cocksucker" somewhere in the comments

695 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:28:16pm

"If McCain were smart, he'd be running against Congress in general, and Pelosi and Reid in particular."

- G Reynolds

That really cannot be stated loud enough.
Is McCain listening?

696 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:28:29pm

re: #693 CyanSnowHawk

As you wish...

697 stevieray  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:29:09pm

Ummm... People! Hello!

The only new part of this bill is the bail out section.

All of the rest is from another bill that already passed the Senate!

They pulled that vote back, added the bail out as an amendment to that bill, and re-passed the old spending bill.

This is to get around the law that all spending bills must originate in the house.

All of the other stuff was already passed by the senate!

698 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:29:36pm

re: #693 CyanSnowHawk

Dread Pirate Citizen?

They should fear our wrath. For too long they have taken us for granted.

699 izbliss  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:29:41pm

WTH? John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchinson voted for it? Are they on drugs? I can't believe I voted for these people...

700 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:29:58pm

It is very instructive to have people read an actual bill so you can get some idea of what government really does. To many people have the romantic idea that Senators sit around making speeches like Henry Clay or Daniel Webster between bouts of considering proposals for new laws that all read like the Declaration of Independance. Sorry folks but this is what real laws look like.

Now consider that this collection of amendments to our tax code is exactly how our immigration system has been shaped over time as well as the tarrif code.

Class is assigned to watch more of Yes Minister on youtube.

701 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:30:05pm

re: #699 izbliss

WTH? John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchinson voted for it? Are they on drugs? I can't believe I voted for these people...

The drug that is the Beltway.

702 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:30:36pm

Okay, I had to close the tab with LGF in it, then reopen it. New comments button working again.

703 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:30:42pm

re: #695 FrogMarch

"If McCain were smart, he'd be running against Congress in general, and Pelosi and Reid in particular."

- G Reynolds

That really cannot be stated loud enough.
Is McCain listening?

listen? mavericks don't listen. they do the most McFucking schtoopid thing that comes to mind

704 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:31:15pm

re: #697 stevieray

Very interesting point.

People should never see how laws or sausages are made.

705 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:31:22pm

re: #644 nyc redneck

Exactly the way I feel. Exactly. And it did not really hit me when it started, but when it did? Not hit by a ton of bricks. as that would be too easy...just a punch in the stomach that I can still feel, and yes, I feel like puking.

We have been had, damn it.

I have no intentions of calling my Rep.....Nita Lowey. She is a smarmy bitch Demonrat of the worst kind. She is perfect for Chucky Cheese Schumer and Shrill...and we do not have any real opposition to Lowey, to make it suck even more. She will vote for this abomination.

706 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:31:26pm

re: #686 nyc redneck

i think the crime is the deceit.

I hope you know i was teasing...
I've paid taxes my whole life.. I remember getting my first real job and looking at my paycheck stud...Oh crap..uncle sam must be pretty rich!
LOL

707 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:31:39pm

re: #694 spidly

got that far but email form not working, the little poll not working. probably a gagillion forms going to the inbox with "cocksucker" somewhere in the comments

I sent mine about 2 minutes after the vote was announced, rare for me but I am worked up over this. We're in the red column anyway, but the atta-boy was necessary. :)

708 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:31:42pm

re: #699 izbliss

WTH? John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchinson voted for it? Are they on drugs? I can't believe I voted for these people...

Next stop? The House. My guy Ralph Hall better vote No.

709 stevieray  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:31:53pm

re: #697 stevieray

Linky link.

710 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:32:06pm

The Gov. is borrowing upwards of a billion a DAY in order to meet the federal payroll. A lot of this has to do with getting that problem solved.

711 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:32:51pm

OT:
In CO - Democrats plan to "Educate the Idiots"

wow.

712 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:32:55pm

Goodnight friends.

713 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:32:56pm

re: #699 izbliss

WTH? John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchinson voted for it? Are they on drugs? I can't believe I voted for these people...

Oh my. Hutchinson!?

714 izbliss  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:33:15pm

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that my Rep is RON PAUL (no, i'm not kidding). Thankfully, he's against the bailout. I'm still trying to get a message through to him for just for good measure.

715 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:33:22pm

re: #671 rawmuse

It is a fight I would rather not do with a Democrat controlled House, Senate, and President. Reform will never happen in that environment.

And reform wasn't going to happen between Monday and today, either. Trying to do that in this bill would have simply killed it.

716 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:33:30pm

re: #710 rawmuse

The Gov. is borrowing upwards of a billion a DAY in order to meet the federal payroll. A lot of this has to do with getting that problem solved.

i never liked paying those guys, i don't think I'm going to do it anymore

717 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:33:57pm

g-night all. I' just bit the dust.

718 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:33:58pm

re: #712 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Goodnight friends.

good night veggie!

719 pink freud  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:33:59pm

re: #712 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Goodnight FBV. weet dreams

720 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:14pm

re: #679 itellu3times

Maybe we need to let things hit the wall, and pick up the pieces.

Unreal. Are you somehow nostalgic for the Great Depression? Interesting times for sure. Intellectually a gold mine. Physically a horror.

There are way too many people thinking like this. A product of a way too comfortable society I wonder.

721 Dasher  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:15pm

They used to call the Senate the deliberative body, but now it seems that the House made better decisions than the Senate. They need to do it one more time, at least.

722 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:17pm

re: #587 kansas

Didn't anyone here see the market dump after the house failed to pass this. Didn't we learn in macro econ that government had to prime the pump? You all want a depression, bank failures, and to lose your 401 Ks go ahead without me.

You're going to lose it anyway just not as fast. This bill does NOTHING to address the root of the problem. CRA is still intact and Credit-Default Swaps are still allowed. CDS's act as a multiplier on the bad paper to the tune of $60 Trillion. All this bill does is put a band-aid on a severed artery.

Buy ammo, canned goods, and dried beans. You just may need it.

723 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:18pm

In other financial news, the Fed announced a new design for the One Dollar Bill

724 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:31pm

re: #611 spidly

Tee hee...

725 wong fei hung  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:38pm

This isn't a bailout. It's a SELLOUT.

If this passes, it's the single biggest drive-by ever committed on the American people. A heist, plain and simple. Stick 'em up.

This is being attempted before an election favoring a candidate who is actively violating campaign finance law, aiding and abetting the suppression of free speech, and won't release his medical records or his grades. He is flanked on all sides by an entertainment/media/finance money machine dedicated to protecting him from any discussion or investigation of his questionable associations. Robert Bork couldn't get a Supreme Court nod after admitting he smoked pot and had limited trial experience. Today, the Democrat candidate for the presidency is an admitted cocaine abuser who hasn't even spent 200 days in the Senate chamber.

This man is not a symbol of the advent of socialism. He's a symptom of a sickness we're already infected with.

-WFH

726 Stonemason  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:54pm

re: #702 Ward Cleaver

I had to close Firefox completely, had the spinning circle of doom

727 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:34:54pm

re: #606 The Shadow Do

The youngsters here are easy to identify. They have yet to experience the consequences of that greater of two evils thing.


Oh I got that down. The lesser of two evils is the one with the knife in his back.

728 Racer X  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:35:04pm

re: #697 stevieray

Ummm... People! Hello!

The only new part of this bill is the bail out section.

All of the rest is from another bill that already passed the Senate!

They pulled that vote back, added the bail out as an amendment to that bill, and re-passed the old spending bill.

This is to get around the law that all spending bills must originate in the house.

All of the other stuff was already passed by the senate!

Fer reals?

729 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:35:16pm

re: #721 Dasher

They used to call the Senate the deliberative body, but now it seems that the House made better decisions than the Senate. They need to do it one more time, at least.

That was back before the 17th amendment.

730 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:36:23pm

re: #710 rawmuse

The Gov. is borrowing upwards of a billion a DAY in order to meet the federal payroll. A lot of this has to do with getting that problem solved.

My God, this is scary -- just think what that means, we had to get it solved so we can continue to borrow upwards of a billion a day ...

731 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:36:40pm

re: #395 WrathofG-d

ot:

Your Children Are NOW learning that: "Christianity was started by a young Palestinian named Jesus"

It's time for our favorite game, "Two Degrees of Saudi Arabia".

It's like Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, except we're tracing Saudi Cancer Cash.

732 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:37:03pm

Warning - cussing ahead.

Google of "Fuck Obama" 40,000 hits.
Google of "Fuck McCain" 20,100 hits.
Google of "Fuck Biden" 609 hits.
Google of "Fuck Palin" 4,290 hits.
Google of "Fuck the Senate" 2,140 hits.
Google of "Fuck Congress" 1,710 hits.

I tried "Fuck the house," but that didn't work - too many hated houses - house rules, etc.

Meaning? Hmmmmm.

733 izbliss  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:37:19pm

re: #713 pink freud


Hutchison. She aligned herself with Hillary on this one. Sad.

734 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:37:40pm

re: #730 ChildOfMary

My God, this is scary -- just think what that means, we had to get it solved so we can continue to borrow upwards of a billion a day ...

When the people loaning us money decide that we are no longer a good investment, and stop the loans, that is the SHTF day.

735 So?  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:37:55pm

Welfare For Wall Street™

736 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:38:08pm

re: #722 Drill_Thrawl

You're going to lose it anyway just not as fast. This bill does NOTHING to address the root of the problem. CRA is still intact and Credit-Default Swaps are still allowed. CDS's act as a multiplier on the bad paper to the tune of $60 Trillion. All this bill does is put a band-aid on a severed artery.

Buy ammo, canned goods, and dried beans. You just may need it.

#587 kansas got taught the keynesian "pump priming" crap? who the hell has defended that shite in the last 20 years?

737 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:38:28pm

re: #711 FrogMarch

OT:
In CO - Democrats plan to "Educate the Idiots"

wow.


Linky no worky - "Network Timeout".

738 unclassifiable  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:38:29pm

Good night folks.

Take care.

739 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:38:43pm

re: #713 pink freud

Oh my. Hutchinson!?

This is serious stuff. the way folks like Cornyn and Hutchinson are voting should tell you something.

740 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:38:46pm

That's right, it did go through the Senate first, a Constitutional no no. Hope someone gets to a Judge for a restraining order ASAP.

741 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:39:36pm

re: #395 WrathofG-d

ot:

Your Children Are NOW learning that: "Christianity was started by a young Palestinian named Jesus"

More ammo for the argument that education about religious matters, including the religious explanations for the origins of life, belongs in religion classes by a person's church or faith, or in the home and at church, AND NOT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

742 N_Jones  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:39:57pm

re: #532 Occasional Reader

So, move? I don't know what else to say.

If we do there will be no one left to pay for your programs........ I suspect a commodities trader?

743 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:40:17pm

re: #722 Drill_Thrawl

You're going to lose it anyway just not as fast. This bill does NOTHING to address the root of the problem. CRA is still intact and Credit-Default Swaps are still allowed. CDS's act as a multiplier on the bad paper to the tune of $60 Trillion. All this bill does is put a band-aid on a severed artery.

Buy ammo, canned goods, and dried beans. You just may need it.

I know it will sound paranoid of me, but yesterday, I bought two cases of Vienna sausages off Amazon.

744 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:40:17pm

re: #732 Catttt

you'd think Palin rank higher... but then again, when I think of Obama I touch myself

745 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:41:07pm

re: #734 rawmuse

When the people loaning us money decide that we are no longer a good investment, and stop the loans, that is the SHTF day.

I know -- and there are some tough times ahead, no way this has played itself out -- and I hope and pray we are strong enough to survive them without doing something really stupid.

746 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:41:40pm

re: #737 Ward Cleaver

Linky no worky - "Network Timeout".

Worked for me - network like me - no like you!. *Smirk*

747 SteveRogers  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:42:47pm

re: #722 Drill_Thrawl

You're going to lose it anyway just not as fast. This bill does NOTHING to address the root of the problem. CRA is still intact and Credit-Default Swaps are still allowed. CDS's act as a multiplier on the bad paper to the tune of $60 Trillion. All this bill does is put a band-aid on a severed artery.

Buy ammo, canned goods, and dried beans. You just may need it.

Yep. The Great Depression lasted much longer than it would have because FDR interfered with the free market.
History is now repeating itself, and very few politicians or citizens seem to grasp that.

All this sell-out will do, in it's present form, is give the Treasury dept. unprecedented power, and inject a lot more socialism into our not-so-free markets.

748 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:43:34pm

re: #742 N_Jones

If we do there will be no one left to pay for your programs........ I suspect a commodities trader?

Wow, you've got me all figured out!

/

749 runrabbitrun  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:43:38pm

re: #657 Mich-again

That would take a stew pot the size of this bailout.

I'll mailorder one, moose-cooker size, straight from the VP nominee's state.

I figure after this bailout, the grampa rabbit and I will be reduced to wearing trapper's furs, pieced together from wilderness kills, as we'll need to do some serous game shootin' so we can have us some fig-leaves and vittles. Sure won't be able to pay for them.....

750 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:44:22pm

Burning Down the House

751 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:44:35pm

re: #716 spidly

i never liked paying those guys, i don't think I'm going to do it anymore


are you going to "fix the glitch"?

752 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:44:43pm

re: #732 Catttt

Warning - cussing ahead.

Google of "Fuck Obama" 40,000 hits.
Google of "Fuck McCain" 20,100 hits.
Google of "Fuck Biden" 609 hits.
Google of "Fuck Palin" 4,290 hits.
Google of "Fuck the Senate" 2,140 hits.
Google of "Fuck Congress" 1,710 hits.

I tried "Fuck the house," but that didn't work - too many hated houses - house rules, etc.

Meaning? Hmmmmm.

Forget that..Google yourself..
/but only in the privacy of your own home..
//I think google knows way too much for it's own good..
/LOL

753 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:45:15pm

heard a WAMU ad on the radio:
"WAMU is now part of JPMorgan, the strongest bank in the nation....."

they didn't mention the whole bankruptcy thing though.

All this crap will be bought up if we let it go. we just have hold outs hoping to get a few more cents on the dollar from the feds. let the private sector pick the bones and value things as they should be.

754 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:46:45pm

re: #751 alien_mind

are you going to "fix the glitch"?

never like fixing glitches, don't think I'm going to do that either

755 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:47:20pm

AP headline, "Obama takes to Senate floor; McCain lays low." Check out the snarky url.

756 N_Jones  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:47:39pm

re: #587 kansas

Didn't anyone here see the market dump after the house failed to pass this. Didn't we learn in macro econ that government had to prime the pump? You all want a depression, bank failures, and to lose your 401 Ks go ahead without me.


You know it may be a bitter pill to swallow but sometimes you have to do the hard thing to do the right thing. If we start now maybe we can get things back on track. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices.

757 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:48:06pm

re: #725 wong fei hung

WFH, you have a knack for lucid summations.

758 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:49:29pm

re: #651 Random63

Dude, chill out! You have gone off the rails here and if you don't pull back, you're going to crash.

I can understand being upset about this bailout vote in the senate tonight, but John McCain is a "sadist that disrepects the American voter" is crazy talk.

You go ahead and stay at home, then. The rest of us will pick up your slack and do everything we can to keep Barack Obama from the Presidency. Because I'll guaran-damn-tee you, your life will be way, way worse with him at the helm than it would be with John McCain there.

But if Obama is elected? Don't you come back here and snivel and whine about how bad he is and how much you wish McCain had won. Because you would be the ultimate hypocrite.

Now, I'm done with you and your defeatist doom and gloom.

759 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:49:53pm

huh, F11 key makes Safari suck over to the left side of the screen as a thin bar/window shade sort of thing

760 nightlight  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:50:14pm

Vote for Palin in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette

Currently - Palin = 32%
Biden = 45%

[Link: www.post-gazette.com...]

761 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:50:41pm

To bad we cant disolve the government today.Just fire every single one of the bastards.Start completly over.
Dr Thomas Sewell president,Michale Malkin Vice president.

762 Dasher  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:50:52pm

re: #729 Mich-again

That was back before the 17th amendment.

Yeah... they past a few really bad amendments 1913-1919 : XVI, XVII, and XVIII

763 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:50:53pm

re: #711 FrogMarch

OT:
In CO - Democrats plan to "Educate the Idiots"

wow.

Carolyn Siegel, AFL CIO Colorado, was in charge of the idiots campaign.

Here is a quote from her as of 2006:


Says Colorado AFL-CIO Political Director Carolyn Siegel:

The coalition behind the minimum wage campaign continues to grow, and the Colorado AFL-CIO looks forward to our continued work with ACORN, the Colorado Progressive Coalition, 9to5 and the growing number of organizations and individuals who are part of making sure that we see a minimum wage increase for the state. People did a great job on the signature gathering and we look forward to moving towards the election.

Source: [Link: blog.aflcio.org...]

764 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:51:06pm

re: #753 spidly

heard a WAMU ad on the radio:
"WAMU is now part of JPMorgan, the strongest bank in the nation....."

they didn't mention the whole bankruptcy thing though.

All this crap will be bought up if we let it go. we just have hold outs hoping to get a few more cents on the dollar from the feds. let the private sector pick the bones and value things as they should be.

In the last several days in the Seattle area, on Comcast cable, I have seen repeated commercials for both WaMu and Wachovia. Looks like they both took out extensive and expensive ad time before they went bust.

The real irony of both sets of ads is the glee with all the "free" give-aways each bank offers, like free checks for life at WaMu.

765 ggt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:52:45pm

Good Evening Lizards!

whad' I miss so far?

766 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:52:50pm

re: #752 HoosierHoops

Google says "No results found for "Fuck Catttt"."

SIGH.

767 alien_mind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:53:01pm

re: #754 spidly

never like fixing glitches, don't think I'm going to do that either


well, it looks like we're going to have a little talk then.

768 runrabbitrun  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:53:40pm

re: #650 Russkilitlover

I had a dwarf dutch bunny (named Hector) as one of my pets as a kid. It lived a great life for 4 years, which, I understand is long for a bunny. Amazing the personality in Hector. I had a big, fat tangerine cat who LOVED him and would jump into his enclosure and just hang with him.

Now I have the cottontails destroying my yard and they don't look so cute.....

We have some cute bunnies in the sticks of NJ here too, but they just sort of hop, sniff, and nibble at the grasses around the empty fields.

I brought home a baby bunny as a young teen from a pet store once, but we lived in an apartment (we were lower middle class and no Fannie/Freddie yet) - it scratched all night and constantly tried to escape from its little hutch/cage. Drove my mom nuts, so my pop eventually brought it to a national park (gateway NY) and set it free. Probably had no chance of survival, but nobody else would take it, and my mom made it clear either the rabbit went or she would.

Cats, then, that's a whole 'nother story. We always had at least one per person in the house while I was growing up, and stacks of beloved kitties around when we were young marrieds and raising our kids.

769 ggt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:54:05pm

re: #761 Oldasdirt

I think you mean, Thomas Sowell. And, yes, I'd vote for him.

770 gop_patriot  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:55:15pm

re: #732 Catttt

Meaning? Hmmmmm.

That nobody even knows who Biden is? :)

771 lifeofthemind  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:55:17pm

Good nite ladies

772 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:55:18pm

re: #769 ggt

I think you mean, Thomas Sowell. And, yes, I'd vote for him.


Right,,sorry,,it's kinda late here.

773 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:56:01pm

re: #743 Catttt

I know it will sound paranoid of me, but yesterday, I bought two cases of Vienna sausages off Amazon.

For the past couple of years the wife has been busting on me for buying that stuff. A few cans here, a bag of beans there. Just a thing or two each each time we shop. Today she tells me "Ya know, maybe that's not such a bad idea after all."

As the Boy Scouts say: Be Prepared.

Just my nature, plan for the worst, pray for the best. At the very least your not totally screwed when the Obama hits the fan.

- Drill

774 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:56:19pm

re: #766 Catttt

Google says "No results found for "Fuck Catttt"."

SIGH.


You just don't know how to search on google..
I got 4.6 million hits for cool cat..

775 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:56:38pm

re: #764 FurryOldGuyJeans

At my bank, I got a free Pyrex dish with a warmer/carrier thingy, and when a friend opened his account, on my recommendation, we both got tool chests. :D

They're still in business. They appear to be cautious and people oriented - e.g., a bank instead of Engulf, Devour, Devour, and Puke.

776 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:57:31pm

re: #767 alien_mind

well, it looks like we're going to have a little talk then.

Peter Gibbons: I don't know, but I really don't like it, and, uh, I'm not gonna go.
Joanna: So you're gonna quit?
Peter Gibbons: Nuh-uh. Not really. Uh... I'm just gonna stop going.
Joanna: When did you decide all that?
Peter Gibbons: About an hour ago.
Joanna: Oh, really? About an hour ago... so you're gonna get another job?
Peter Gibbons: I don't think I'd like another job.
Joanna: Well, what are you going to do about money and bills and...
Peter Gibbons: You know, I've never really liked paying bills. I don't think I'm gonna do that, either.

777 Catttt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:58:39pm

re: #772 Oldasdirt

Right,,sorry,,it's kinda late here.

Maybe we could all move to Alaska and start our own country. (I will need to winterize and get new tires.)

778 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:58:50pm

re: #773 Drill_Thrawl

For the past couple of years the wife has been busting on me for buying that stuff. A few cans here, a bag of beans there. Just a thing or two each each time we shop. Today she tells me "Ya know, maybe that's not such a bad idea after all."

As the Boy Scouts say: Be Prepared.

Just my nature, plan for the worst, pray for the best. At the very least your not totally screwed when the Obama hits the fan.

- Drill

9/11 ended my wife's objections to the arsenal

779 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:58:51pm

Any Twin Cities lizards going to watch the debate at Trocadero tomorrow night? I think I might be able to make it.

780 Inquisitive  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 8:59:14pm

re: #758 Intrepid

Dude, chill out! You have gone off the rails here and if you don't pull back, you're going to crash.

I can understand being upset about this bailout vote in the senate tonight, but John McCain is a "sadist that disrepects the American voter" is crazy talk.

You go ahead and stay at home, then. The rest of us will pick up your slack and do everything we can to keep Barack Obama from the Presidency. Because I'll guaran-damn-tee you, your life will be way, way worse with him at the helm than it would be with John McCain there.

But if Obama is elected? Don't you come back here and snivel and whine about how bad he is and how much you wish McCain had won. Because you would be the ultimate hypocrite.

Now, I'm done with you and your defeatist doom and gloom.

Picked up a JOhn McCain sign for the yard and a few for family and friends. Even got to put one in my SIL lawn....he is the one I told about where I even raised my voice a bit(LOL) when trying to change his mind....I didn't change his mind all by myself.....Palin was the one that tipped his vote to McCain. I live in a small town in S.Illinois and I know that my little sign or vote is not going to do alot of good in this State, but I am not going to go down without a FIGHT! ! !

781 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:01:00pm

Does meeting with a variety of Sicilians in Chicago count as foreign policy experience?

782 Drill_Thrawl  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:04:27pm

re: #778 spidly

9/11 ended my wife's objections to the arsenal

That is my next project. I have a shotgun, thinking a handgun might be in my near future. Gotta edjamakate meself first through.

783 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:04:50pm

re: #777 Catttt

Maybe we could all move to Alaska and start our own country. (I will need to winterize and get new tires.)


Funny thing,I live in Texas but i love cold weather.Winter come I'm still sitting around in shorts and a T shirt.My friends call me a polar bear.
But on another note,we have a lot of talk going on here about secession if Obama wins.Now if you want to come to Texas,your welcome.Any and all Conservatives are.But bring guns,cause we are going to have to liberate Houston.

784 ChildOfMary  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:05:38pm

re: #711 FrogMarch

OT:
In CO - Democrats plan to "Educate the Idiots"

wow.

From the report:

In a confidential internal memorandum obtained by Face The State (PDF), the Colorado Democracy Alliance outlines a roster of "operatives" who worked for Democratic victory in the 2006 general election. The document outlines specific tasks for various members of the state's liberal infrastructure, including a campaign to "educate the idiots," assigned to the state's AFL-CIO union. Among the operation's intended targets: "minorities, GED's, drop-outs."

Wow -- these Dems consider minorities, GED's, and drop-outs to be idiots. Sure wish this info would get some wide distribution. Supporters as merely a means to an end -- doesn't get much clearer than that.

Thanks for the info.

785 SummerSong  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:07:02pm

re: #760 nightlight


The page wouldn't let me vote. Clicked around, found the poll again...still wouldn't let me make a selection.

786 AmericanMe  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:08:20pm

re: #638 Racer X

Dodgers baby!

Heck yeah! Beat down those Cubs!

ps...sorry to Mama Winger (one of my favorite posters!)

787 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:08:24pm

re: #782 Drill_Thrawl

That is my next project. I have a shotgun, thinking a handgun might be in my near future. Gotta edjamakate meself first through.

I need to get up to speed on laws regarding shipping handguns and rifles across state lines.
Anyone got a source/link to go to?

/dead serious

788 ggt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:10:28pm

Shamelss Spin-off Plug or an article about the bailout I can actually understand?

I got the link from one of my favorite blogs: Musings of a Geekwitha45

789 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:11:13pm

For what it's worth, I think NO bill in congress should be over 10 pages long. (I really think only 1 page, but they have to add their legalese as most are lawyers--why congress is so frickin' screwed up)

790 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:13:17pm

re: #789 newsjunkie_ky

For what it's worth, I think NO bill in congress should be over 10 pages long. (I really think only 1 page, but they have to add their legalese as most are lawyers--why congress is so frickin' screwed up)

And Congressional term limits.

791 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:13:37pm

re: #789 newsjunkie_ky

For what it's worth, I think NO bill in congress should be over 10 pages long. (I really think only 1 page, but they have to add their legalese as most are lawyers--why congress is so frickin' screwed up)

Or a tax form.

792 Archimedes  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:15:37pm

Sometimes with the modern political scene I feel like we've stepped into the Twilight Zone:

Youtube Video

793 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:16:09pm

re: #789 newsjunkie_ky

For what it's worth, I think NO bill in congress should be over 10 pages long. (I really think only 1 page, but they have to add their legalese as most are lawyers--why congress is so frickin' screwed up)

Just got here. I here what you're saying. This bill started out at 3 pages, now we're looking at 450 pages. WTF.

I wasn't sure how I felt about this bailout until yesterday. Now I say fuck this let the chips fall where they may.
It's gonna be painful either way, might as well get things going now.

794 Mencius  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:17:22pm

re: #697 stevieray

Thanks for that--I was just scrolling through to see if anyone had caught that fact. All the screaming about larding up the bill is really misplaced anger. The pork was going to happen anyway.

This bailout was added to the bill to avoid having to go through the normal process. It is essentially the same bill the House rejected on Monday, except I think it has additional FDIC protection in it.

795 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:17:49pm

I am almost hopeing that they can fire up the Hadron super collider before the election so it can_____________insert commint here______________

796 ggt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:19:00pm

re: #789 newsjunkie_ky

Can we start a referendum: No Bill in Congress will be longer than the Constitution.

797 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:19:02pm

re: #723 Racer X

Hank Paulson sez: I Want Your Money!

Check out the pic

798 freedombilly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:19:38pm

re: #775 Catttt

Engulf, Devour, Devour, and Puke.

That sounds like a law firm from Chicago comprised of community organizers.

799 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:20:07pm

re: #787 IslandLibertarian

I need to get up to speed on laws regarding shipping handguns and rifles across state lines.
Anyone got a source/link to go to?

/dead serious

NRA
Gun Broker
find an ffl

pistols need to be transferred to FFL holder
rifles can be sent


FIREARMS LAW ADMINISTERED BY THE POSTAL SERVICE

TITLE 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 83



§ 1715. Firearms as nonmailable;
regulations.

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms
capable of being concealed on the per-
son are nonmailable and shall not be
deposited in or carried by the mails or
delivered by any officer or employee of
the Postal Service. Such articles may
be conveyed in the mails, under such
regulations as the Postal Service shall
prescribe, for use in connection with
their official duty, to officers of the
Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard,
Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve
Corps; to officers of the National Guard
or Militia of a State, Territory, Com-
monwealth, Possession, or District; to
officers of the United States or of a
State, Territory, Commonwealth, Pos-
session, or District whose official duty is
to serve warrants of arrest or commit-
ments; to employees of the Postal Ser-
vice; to officers and employees of
enforcement agencies of the United
States; and to watchmen engaged in
guarding the property of the United
States, a State, Territory, Common-
wealth, Possession, or District. Such
articles also may be conveyed in the
mails to manufacturers of firearms or
bona fide dealers therein in customary
trade shipments, including such articles
for repairs or replacement of parts, from
one to the other, under such regula-
tions as the Postal Service shall pre-
scribe.

Whoever knowingly deposits for
mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes
to be delivered by mail according to the
direction thereon, or at any place to
which it is directed to be delivered by
the person to whom it is addressed,
any pistol, revolver, or firearm declared
nonmailable by this section, shall be
fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than two years, or both.

800 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:20:58pm

re: #793 x-wing

Just got here. I here what you're saying. This bill started out at 3 pages, now we're looking at 450 pages. WTF.

I wasn't sure how I felt about this bailout until yesterday. Now I say fuck this let the chips fall where they may.
It's gonna be painful either way, might as well get things going now.

ok..but can i have my part of the bail-out?
I put in the budget to build a bridge to somewhere..
Not sure where to yet..but please send money...
/

801 kuchuklambat  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:21:16pm

Don't have time to read the whole thread, but does anyone other than kansas agree that this needs to be done? Yes, the government rigged the market structure with CRA, Fannie, Freddie, etc, but this bailout IS the bitter pill to take, not the pill of not doing it.
The alternative is your local, cautious and people-oriented bank not having cash for its ATMs because it couldn't roll over its overnight commercial paper, your municipality not able to sell bonds for its projects or even running out of short-term credit to pay its employees, your supermarket closing because its supply chain is broken. These things are already beginning to go down.
We are talking 20-25% unemployment.
There are no good alternatives, and I hope we learn this lesson, but this bill needs to pass, people. Else gold, canned food and ammo is the only alternative.

802 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:21:20pm

re: #790 Fat Jolly Penguin

And Congressional term limits.

Thing is we could do that without term limits, but we keep electing them.

Look at N.Y.C., the "voters" voted for term limits and it passed. Now a freakin' judge says it's un-constitutional.

We'll see how serious NYC voters are about term limits when Bloomberg seeks his third term.

803 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:21:31pm

re: #720 The Shadow Do

Unreal. Are you somehow nostalgic for the Great Depression? Interesting times for sure. Intellectually a gold mine. Physically a horror.

There are way too many people thinking like this. A product of a way too comfortable society I wonder.

Just want to go over the precipice eyes forward.

804 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:23:00pm

re: #777 Catttt

Maybe we could all move to Alaska and start our own country. (I will need to winterize and get new tires.)

I think we should all move to Israel. Make sure Israel really needs the room that is properly theirs, and we'd vote for better candidates than Olmerde.

805 ggt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:23:19pm

From the comments section of my Shameless Spin-Off Plub (SSOP) emphasis mine:

"Meyrick, greed is not the problem here. It is our unwillingness let individuals and corporations suffer the consequences of bad financial decisions.
If you were a bank and the government promised they would make the payments for any one who couldn't pay their mortgage, how careful would you be in determining an applicant's credit-worthiness?

We must allow people to fail, or we are creating incentives for bad decisions."

806 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:24:32pm

re: #801 kuchuklambat

What it is, is I just plain don't know.

My local bank hasn't been able to roll their paper for at least a week, and we're still here.

The mark-to-market change may be enough to let us limp by, without blowing $700b up Paulson's wazoo.

807 pat  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:25:36pm

Cool. Democrats fucked up the entire economy with racially motivated loans and the Republicans get and accept the blame. A perfect world for Obama.

808 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:25:42pm

re: #787 IslandLibertarian

just go to a gun store. If there's something you really want from CDNN, another catalogue or a private party out of state, they'll probably order it for you and charge you something like 50 bucks for the transfer. otherwise they'll certainly order whatever you want from whatever from major manufacturer

809 ggt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:25:49pm

Lizards, I am exhausted.

weet dreams all!

810 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:26:24pm

re: #795 Oldasdirt

I am almost hopeing that they can fire up the Hadron super collider before the election so it can_____________insert commint here______________

It operates at exactly $700,000,000,000 electron volts. Coinkidink? I think not!
/

811 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:26:58pm

re: #800 HoosierHoops

ok..but can i have my part of the bail-out?
I put in the budget to build a bridge to somewhere..
Not sure where to yet..but please send money...
/

What page was your request on?

I may be swayed to do a line item passage on some things :>}

/ but I want an e-z pass across that bridge.

812 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:27:31pm

re: #802 x-wing

Thing is we could do that without term limits, but we keep electing them.

Look at N.Y.C., the "voters" voted for term limits and it passed. Now a freakin' judge says it's un-constitutional.

We'll see how serious NYC voters are about term limits when Bloomberg seeks his third term.

We can't get candidates running against the incumbents, and the MSM always cover the incumbents better. We need real coverage of all the candidates.

813 N_Jones  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:28:09pm

This is my post just for the record.

Normally I would agree with a couple of the posters here that the government need to do something to save us from ourselves. I don't want to lose my job, my house, my car, or my stuff. BUT in this case I think it is time we made a stand. As I posted earlier sacrifices must be made sometimes and this time calls for it.

You have to throw the baby out with the bath water if the baby is the spawn of satan...... :o

814 kuchuklambat  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:28:27pm

re: #805 ggt

yes, moral hazard (government insuring the risks of bad lending while activists beating the banks into making bad loans) is how we got here, and more moral hazard may get created by the bailout, but the alternative is still worse. I am talking marauding gangs with city governments broke.

815 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:28:45pm

re: #801 kuchuklambat

Don't have time to read the whole thread, but does anyone other than kansas agree that this needs to be done? Yes, the government rigged the market structure with CRA, Fannie, Freddie, etc, but this bailout IS the bitter pill to take, not the pill of not doing it.
The alternative is your local, cautious and people-oriented bank not having cash for its ATMs because it couldn't roll over its overnight commercial paper, your municipality not able to sell bonds for its projects or even running out of short-term credit to pay its employees, your supermarket closing because its supply chain is broken. These things are already beginning to go down.
We are talking 20-25% unemployment.
There are no good alternatives, and I hope we learn this lesson, but this bill needs to pass, people. Else gold, canned food and ammo is the only alternative.

a billion dollar placebo. no, more like a billion dollars in Laetrile.

816 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:29:17pm

Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

817 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:30:11pm

re: #805 ggt

We must allow people to fail, or we are creating incentives for bad decisions."

Now there's an outdated perspective! Next you'll be wanting kids to actually keep score to determine who won and who lost a game. LOST! The word sends chills up my spine. I'll be that you're one of these guys that wants to bring dodge ball back!

818 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:30:32pm

re: #815 spidly

Trillion, my lizard friend, trillion.

819 kuchuklambat  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:31:28pm

re: #806 itellu3times

how do you know your local bank hasn't been able to roll its commercial paper? Things are getting worse still kinda slowly, with numbers on municipal troubles and economy contraction trickling in.

820 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:31:34pm

re: #799 spidly

Thanks.........lots to learn.

821 Nightlight  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:31:55pm

re: #785 SummerSong

You can access it on their front page. Scroll midway down page on the left

[Link: www.post-gazette.com...]

Click on: PG poll: Will you watch the debate Thursday?

822 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:32:35pm

FWIW Asian markets are falling in spite of Senates' passing the bill.

823 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:32:38pm

re: #817 M. Bensson-Levi

Now there's an outdated perspective! Next you'll be wanting kids to actually keep score to determine who won and who lost a game. LOST! The word sends chills up my spine. I'll be that you're one of these guys that wants to bring dodge ball back!

Ya gotta supply yer own "t".

824 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:33:37pm

REPOST: Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

825 kuchuklambat  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:34:36pm

re: #817 M. Bensson-Levi

I appreciate the sentiment, but I am sure there is SOME degree of trouble from which you WILL bail out your kids, rather than let them get, say, permanently crippled.

826 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:34:52pm

re: #793 x-wing
After congress keeps added more and more crap, how in he11 can they actually READ it before they vote.
Congress needs to take a test on the bill to see if they actually know what is it the dang thang.

827 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:35:00pm

re: #824 realwest

REPOST: Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

Here.

828 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:35:56pm

re: #796 ggt

Can we start a referendum: No Bill in Congress will be longer than the Constitution.


I like that idea.

829 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:36:05pm

re: #812 Kosh's Shadow

We can't get candidates running against the incumbents, and the MSM always cover the incumbents better. We need real coverage of all the candidates.

If this little fiasco doesn't clean house in Washington, I'm pretty much giving up on the American people as a whole.

We did a very nice job cleaning out our Capitol in Harrisburg two years ago, and I plan on trying to send a few more packing in 5 weeks.

/ If we could just get the Dems. to clean their side up.

830 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:36:32pm

re: #805 ggt
"We must allow people to fail, or we are creating incentives for bad decisions."

Won't help much when folks don't get their paychecks sometime in the next couple of weeks (unless they get smart and change the Mark to Market rule).

831 spidly  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:36:40pm

re: #824 realwest

REPOST: Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

just in case you need to browse in Gujarati, here's the whole lot

832 SummerSong  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:36:53pm

re: #821 Nightlight

Yes, that's what I tried to do. For whatever reason, it shows me the results rather than a screen on which I can vote.

Oh well, I gave it a shot.

833 stevieray  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:36:58pm

re: #824 realwest

REPOST: Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

Do NOT download FF3... stick with FF2. Too many bugs still in FF3!

834 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:37:22pm

re: #824 realwest

REPOST: Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

I loved firefox 3 so much I downloaded another browser all together.

835 The Shadow Do  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:37:27pm

re: #807 pat

Cool. Democrats fucked up the entire economy with racially motivated loans and the Republicans get and accept the blame. A perfect world for Obama.

You got it.

836 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:37:29pm

re: #816 realwest

Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

Hey Guy,

downloads.com..."firefox 3" in the search window..."Download Now"

837 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:37:33pm

re: #819 kuchuklambat

how do you know your local bank hasn't been able to roll its commercial paper? Things are getting worse still kinda slowly, with numbers on municipal troubles and economy contraction trickling in.

The entire exchange system is broken, I'm not personally involved, but I presume from the rumors that the fed is now the one and only counterparty for every darned bank in the country.

This is the real crisis the bill is supposed to address ... but does it?

838 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:37:35pm

re: #827 Fat Jolly Penguin
Thank you kindly! Do I want version 2 or 3 (do I have a choice) and how the hell do I transfer my favorites to Firefox?

839 capitalist piglet  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:38:04pm

The stuff that is going on in Ohio is scary. Elections are getting more and more difficult to trust and to monitor. I hate to be so fatalistic, but if Obama "wins", I think it's the beginning of the end.

They are laying the groundwork for massive election fraud...and as a resident of Washington state, I can tell you there is no more helpless feeling in the world than watching them "find" votes they need in Democrat-heavy counties, and stop the counting as soon as they take the lead.

840 Nightlight  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:38:07pm

re: #832 SummerSong

hmmmm strange. Maybe they closed polling at midnight EST? Thanks for trying. I would have loved to see the numbers go up for Palin!

841 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:39:05pm

re: #816 realwest

Hey Y'all - my browser is giving me fits. Anyone got a link to firefox - and should I download 2 or 3 ?!
(running windows XP, IE 6 but using Maxthon as a shell over IE).

Hey Real I use "MyIE2" see what you think.

842 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:39:26pm

re: #838 realwest

Thank you kindly! Do I want version 2 or 3 (do I have a choice) and how the hell do I transfer my favorites to Firefox?

Well, lots of people here seem to be saying you don't want 3, but I haven't had a problem with it since I downloaded in April. It asks while it's installing if you want to import favorites from IE.

843 stevieray  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:39:29pm

re: #838 realwest

Thank you kindly! Do I want version 2 or 3 (do I have a choice) and how the hell do I transfer my favorites to Firefox?

Get FF2. It will ask you if you want to transfer your bookmarks, and it will do it for you if you say "yes".

844 uptight  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:39:57pm

Question for lizardoids
When did you last hear the word "Kyoto"?

To me, it seems like ages ago. The "pressing issue of global warming" has either been blown out of the water by the REAL issue of global financial meltdown, or ordinary people are finally bored of that crap.

Certainly, Green issues have not been noticeable part of the campaigns of either McCain, Obama or Clinton. Neither Gordon Brown, nor David Cameron is talking about the environment. The issue isn't dead, bu it's certainly in semi-retirement and on the way out.

845 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:40:13pm

re: #841 x-wing
What the hell is "MyIE2" ?

846 Cognito  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:40:29pm

Hrmm.

The Asian markets are stubbornly continuing to drop. I had sort of expected they might rise, on the bill's passage through the Senate.

Any smart money folks got a better sense of what's up with that?

847 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:41:04pm

re: #843 stevieray
Thanks a lot stevieray!

848 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:41:56pm

Real: Here's a link to FF2, if you want that.

849 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:41:59pm

It's so funny that the party that yells for a HEARING on everything they think they can pin on Republicans are now saying, 'there is no reason to look for someone to blame'.
a$$holes.
Watching H&C and harry reid is talking. Man I hate the sound of his voice.

850 kuchuklambat  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:42:36pm

re: #837 itellu3times

Yes, this is the real crisis, no, I don't know if the bill addresses it. I am hoping since the situation is 99% about the market sentiment, i.e. psychological, the bill passage will be enough to relax interbank lending. I am sure there are better ways to do it, and I am sure that the pols will rob us blind, or at least try.

851 spirochete  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:43:14pm

Actually, there is a lot of green stuff in this bill. Huge exemptions (or credits, i forget which) for electric cars. I know a new factory just broke ground in either Maryland or Virginia.

852 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:43:40pm

re: #826 newsjunkie_ky

I hate the Senate. Tax breaks for wooden arrow makers, wool research? I thought these assholes were trying to save this country and our economy.

/Dow 8000, the sooner we get there the sooner we get out of this congressional manufactured hell hole.

/I'm seething again...sorry

853 realwest  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:43:41pm

re: #846 Cognito
Well just going by 3 wood's explanations the fact is that the House HAS to pass the bill, then the Senate has to agree to it; House will never pass the Senate version - so it's a question of time.
And credit is so tight, a friend of mine had his business line of credit cut off TODAY (he employs 14 people and of course his outstanding invoices haven't been paid, so he doesn't know how to meet his payroll).

854 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:43:49pm

re: #842 Fat Jolly Penguin

Well, lots of people here seem to be saying you don't want 3, but I haven't had a problem with it since I downloaded in April. It asks while it's installing if you want to import favorites from IE.

*whack* FF3 didn't come out until June. Duh.

855 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:44:00pm

I hate when congress acts 'gentlemanly'.

856 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:44:04pm

re: #849 newsjunkie_ky

It's so funny that the party that yells for a HEARING on everything they think they can pin on Republicans are now saying, 'there is no reason to look for someone to blame'.
a$$holes.
Watching H&C and harry Reid is talking. Man I hate the sound of his voice.

I like it when Harry Reid talks,,He's so unclean and inarticulate

857 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:44:15pm

re: #825 kuchuklambat

I appreciate the sentiment, but I am sure there is SOME degree of trouble from which you WILL bail out your kids, rather than let them get, say, permanently crippled.

Sure. But from the time that they were old enough to walk, if they wanted to go hiking with me they had to carry their own water, I'd give them none of mine, and I'd not allow them to share theirs. In an emergency would I share? Sure. In a real emergency. Otherwise go thirsty...and learn.

That's my way of things. Seemed to work pretty well.

858 bungie  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:44:24pm

Harry Reid praising Chris Dodd and Mitch McConnell pretending we're all in this together. How stupid are they? And how stupid do they think we are?

"We have much to be proud of."

859 x-wing  Wed, Oct 1, 2008 9:44:47pm

re: