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Biologist Reviews 'Intelligent Design' Creationist Textbook

Sci/Tech | Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:31:52 pm PDT

Here’s a terrific, detailed review of one of the textbooks created by the Discovery Institute in order to sneak their “intelligent design” creationism into American science classrooms. John Timmer precisely identifies the slippery tactics of this dishonest organization: A biologist reviews an evolution textbook from the ID camp.

The Discovery Institute, as indicated by its wedge document, wishes to eliminate science’s focus on natural causes. The group views this focus as the source of society’s increasing materialism, which makes it anathema in the belief system of Discovery’s members. Stephen C. Meyer, the lead author of Explore Evolution, heads the Discovery Institute and is mentioned by name in the wedge document, as is coauthor Paul Nelson.

Evolution has been singled out for special ire by Discovery, as it provides an explanation for the origin of humanity based solely on natural processes. Although the ID movement has not developed a research program or even proposed a scientific formulation of its ideas, it has gotten a surprising amount of traction with its attack on the science of evolution. Tapping into a rich vein of American thought that dates back roughly a century, the group’s members have used popular books and appearances in the press to argue that the scientific theory of evolution is on the verge of abandonment, having been pushed to its most recent “inevitable” collapse by new molecular evidence.

More significantly, however, Discovery Institute fellows have been attempting to have their arguments against evolution incorporated into the US public school system. They testified in favor of education standards in Ohio and Kansas that targeted evolution for special criticism—Kansas’ standards went even further and eliminated reference to science’s search for natural causes. In the wake of the Dover case, however, both states have reversed these policies, leaving Discovery without a foot in the door of the US education system.

EE appears to be part of a strategy to change that. In June, Louisiana became the first state to enact a law specifically enabling the use of supplemental materials for the critical evaluation of evolution; similar legislation has been introduced in several other states. EE appears to have been intelligently designed to be the sort of supplemental text that’s appropriate under the Louisiana legislation, and so it’s likely to be making an appearance in classrooms there. But EE may appear in other states, as the approval process for supplementary material is often far less strict than that governing textbooks.

Read the whole thing. Timmer’s review completely tears this so-called textbook to shreds.

This is the kind of craziness promoted by the Discovery Institute:

Another PhD the authors found is Christian Schwabe, who apparently has established a career studying a protein called reflexin, along with its relatives. But every couple of years he publishes a paper in which he argues in favor of his belief that the genomes of all modern and extinct species originated during the formation of life billions of years ago. According to Schwabe, those genomes have continued to exist, hidden underground as stem cell-like entities. Whenever these cells sense a favorable environment above ground, they head for the surface and self-organize into a fully formed, multicellular animal. No, I am not making this up.

This isn’t simply evidence-free (although it is); it’s borderline deranged. And yet, in the hands of Discovery’s authors, it becomes a serious scientific controversy about the existence of the tree of life. And, if there’s any controversy, then students should apparently think twice before accepting that science actually knows anything about the evolution of life on earth.

“Borderline deranged.” Couldn’t have said it better myself.

And guess who’s taking another bash at me? Sacking Little Green Footballs’ Outrageous Claim That ‘Discovery Institute Is in League With Islamist Creationists’.

Earlier this year, the popular blog Little Green Footballs (LGF) made an outrageous attempt to link Discovery Institute to the Muslim creationist Harun Yahya (a.k.a. Adnan Oktar). Their post claimed, “Discovery Institute is in league with Islamist creationists, a fact that is indisputably true,” specifically referring to Yahya / Oktar.

A perfect example of the lies and distortions in which this organization trades. I neither said nor implied that the Discovery Institute collaborates with Harun Yahya (although one of their Turkish associates, Mustafa Aykol, is a former volunteer for Harun Yahya), and to say that I was “specifically referring” to him is simply a lie.

Read it for yourself; here’s the post to which DI shill Casey Luskin is referring, with an audio clip featuring one of the Discovery Institute’s Senior Fellows, David Berlinski, boasting about their collaboration with Islamic creationists: When Disco Dudes Attack.

And yes, it is indisputably true that the Discovery Institute is collaborating with Turkish creationists. Clearly, that little “discovery” of mine has hit a very sensitive nerve at the Dishonesty Institute.

722 comments

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1 noshariaincanada  10/03/08 5:34:08 pm reply quote

We will tolerate no lies or distortions!

2 rightside  10/03/08 5:34:47 pm reply quote

Alright! An intelligent design thread!

3 pingjockey  10/03/08 5:38:40 pm reply quote

Remember, DO NOT TELL CHARLES WHAT TO POST! You mush mellon brains!

4 sattv4u2  10/03/08 5:38:48 pm reply quote

POINT OF ORDER!

If the DI writes a "textbook" and nobody (read public school system) uses it, does it make a sound? (or does it matter?)

5 Charles  10/03/08 5:39:51 pm reply quote

re: #4 sattv4u2

POINT OF ORDER!

If the DI writes a "textbook" and nobody (read public school system) uses it, does it make a sound? (or does it matter?)

You haven't even read the article, or you wouldn't be asking this.

6 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 5:39:56 pm reply quote
textbooks created by the Discovery Institute

Okay, what school districts have adopted them?

/just askin'

7 Charles  10/03/08 5:41:25 pm reply quote

re: #6 Killian Bundy

Okay, what school districts have adopted them?

/just askin'

So let's just wait until they do before saying anything about it? I don't think so.

8 HelloDare  10/03/08 5:42:30 pm reply quote

The arguments supporting intelligent design are beyond stupid.

9 sattv4u2  10/03/08 5:43:08 pm reply quote

re: #5 Charles

You haven't even read the article, or you wouldn't be asking this.

reading the article or not, my question still stands (and BTW, i'm reading it as we discuss).
Killian is asking the same thing in his #6. It's like the nut standing on a New York street corner proclaiming the End of The World. Do you think ANYONE is paying attntion to him, save for a tourist who has never seen such a spectacle before? And even that tourist pays no heed to the message!

10 Dar ul Harb  10/03/08 5:46:00 pm reply quote

Who but the ID folks would title their textbook "Explore Evolution"?

11 Charles  10/03/08 5:46:40 pm reply quote

re: #9 sattv4u2

reading the article or not, my question still stands (and BTW, i'm reading it as we discuss).
Killian is asking the same thing in his #6. It's like the nut standing on a New York street corner proclaiming the End of The World. Do you think ANYONE is paying attntion to him, save for a tourist who has never seen such a spectacle before? And even that tourist pays no heed to the message!

You are simply wrong. This agenda is being pushed hard, all over the country. Attempting to brush it off is ridiculous. And dangerous.

12 Outrider  10/03/08 5:47:31 pm reply quote

re: #9 sattv4u2

reading the article or not, my question still stands (and BTW, i'm reading it as we discuss).
Killian is asking the same thing in his #6. It's like the nut standing on a New York street corner proclaiming the End of The World. Do you think ANYONE is paying attntion to him, save for a tourist who has never seen such a spectacle before? And even that tourist pays no heed to the message!


Gov Jindal would be one of those I believe. And he does have some power over the textbooks.

13 Basho  10/03/08 5:48:47 pm reply quote

Explore Evolution. Nice "Orwellian" name. Makes it sounds like there is actual exploring going on at the Discovery Institute.

14 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  10/03/08 5:48:54 pm reply quote

Words cannot express my contempt for these people

15 Charles  10/03/08 5:49:13 pm reply quote

I'm reminded of the people who say that jihadis are just a tiny minority, and we can just ignore them.

16 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 5:49:27 pm reply quote

re: #7 Charles

So let's just wait until they do before saying anything about it? I don't think so.

I'm pretty sure my position's clear.

/it's not going to fly once it hits the courts and there's not really much you can do about it preemptively

17 sattv4u2  10/03/08 5:50:43 pm reply quote

re: #11 Charles

You are simply wrong. This agenda is being pushed hard, all over the country. Attempting to brush it off is ridiculous.

Okay, lets play it your way. Pushing as hard as they are, is there a school system that you're aware of that has adopted the text? Is there a system that has it under serious consideration? I'm not being snarky or argumentative! I really want to know. If there IS a system that is leaning that way, I will lead the charge (both realistically and financially) to keep it out of the public schools, regardless of what my personal beleif is! I do NOT want it taught in PUBLIC school. I can't be more blunt.

18 Charles  10/03/08 5:50:48 pm reply quote

re: #16 Killian Bundy

I'm pretty sure my position's clear.

/it's not going to fly once it hits the courts and there's not really much you can do about it preemptively

Your position is clear, and it's wrong-headed.

19 Sharmuta  10/03/08 5:51:36 pm reply quote
Whenever these cells sense a favorable environment above ground, they head for the surface and self-organize into a fully formed, multicellular animal.

A PhD came up with this? Was that a PhD in science or science fiction?

20 Charles  10/03/08 5:52:27 pm reply quote

re: #17 sattv4u2

Okay, lets play it your way. Pushing as hard as they are, is there a school system that you're aware of that has adopted the text? Is there a system that has it under serious consideration? I'm not being snarky or argumentative! I really want to know. If there IS a system that is leaning that way, I will lead the charge (both realistically and financially) to keep it out of the public schools, regardless of what my personal beleif is! I do NOT want it taught in PUBLIC school. I can't be more blunt.

Educate yourself. I've been posting article after article on this subject, because there ARE states that are being influenced by these people. If you can't be bothered to read those articles, your opinions aren't worth much.

21 jaunte  10/03/08 5:52:30 pm reply quote

Some reading here may not go through the entire article, but you shoudn't miss this part of John Timmer's summation:

"As I was reading the text, I was repeatedly reminded of the testimony of Berkeley Professor Kevin Padian, who described the statement required by the Dover, PA school board as follows:

'I think it makes people stupid. I think essentially it makes them ignorant. It confuses them unnecessarily about things that are well understood in science, about which there is no controversy, about ideas that have existed since the 1700's, about a broad body of scientific knowledge that's been developed over centuries by people with religious backgrounds and all walks of life, from all countries and faiths, which everyone can understand.'

22 sattv4u2  10/03/08 5:52:31 pm reply quote

re: #12 Outrider

Gov Jindal would be one of those I believe. And he does have some power over the textbooks.

Tha the does. Do you have any evidence that he wants to institute the theory of ID in the LA public schools (and not just because he is a beleiver)

23 Tarkloon  10/03/08 5:53:25 pm reply quote

re: #19 Sharmuta

A PhD came up with this? Was that a PhD in science or science fiction?

It's actually cribbed from the plot of a Dean Koontz thriller, "Phantoms" IIRC.

24 sattv4u2  10/03/08 5:53:41 pm reply quote

re: #20 Charles

Educate yourself. I've been posting article after article on this subject, because there ARE states that are being influenced by these people. If you can't be bothered to read those articles, your opinions aren't worth much.

I do daily, thank you
I'll take that as a NO, there are NO public schools that use the text

25 Basho  10/03/08 5:54:59 pm reply quote

re: #19 Sharmuta

A PhD came up with this? Was that a PhD in science or science fiction?

Sounds like one of those crackpot theories. Shows how the DI is willing to embrace any pseudoscience that forwards its agenda no matter how ludicrous. Reminds me of that commenter a while back that tried to show evolution has some flaws in it by pointing to the works of Velikovsky.

26 Oingo Boingo[deleted]  10/03/08 5:55:05 pm
27 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  10/03/08 5:55:08 pm reply quote

re: #23 Tarkloon

It's actually cribbed from the plot of a Dean Koontz thriller, "Phantoms" IIRC.

Got it from some Lovecraft Cthulhu type creatures as well, Ubbo-sathla, Abhoth, shoggoths, etc

28 LEGION  10/03/08 5:55:45 pm reply quote

re: #15 Charles

I'm reminded of the people who say that jihadis are just a tiny minority, and we can just ignore them.

Like Obama said Iran is just a small country and we don't need to worry about it. Ohhhhkayyy- so you want to be our Commander in Chief. Not!

29 sattv4u2  10/03/08 5:58:01 pm reply quote

re: #23 Tarkloon

It's actually cribbed from the plot of a Dean Koontz thriller, "Phantoms" IIRC.

I could never get into Koontz, though I've tried numerous times

30 Charles  10/03/08 5:58:02 pm reply quote

re: #22 sattv4u2

Tha the does. Do you have any evidence that he wants to institute the theory of ID in the LA public schools (and not just because he is a beleiver)

This is why I say your opinions aren't worth much. You don't even know the facts.

Jindal has explicitly supported the teaching of creationism in science classes, on several occasions, and I've posted links. The state of Louisiana passed a bill that will specifically allow textbooks like the one that is the subject of this article.

31 Tarkloon  10/03/08 5:58:23 pm reply quote

There are probably hundreds of thousands of copies of this book in print right now, and it's probably in a lot of Sunday Schools. Christian parents need to know that the book is full of outright fallacies, it's not just about public schools for those who are saying it is.

32 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 5:58:24 pm reply quote

re: #18 Charles

Your position is clear, and it's wrong-headed.

What do you propose to do before they violate the law?

/the people have a right to be insane in this country until they cross the line

33 Charles  10/03/08 5:59:09 pm reply quote

re: #32 Killian Bundy

What do you propose to do before they violate the law?

/the people have a right to be insane in this country until they cross the line

I propose to continue posting about this subject, no matter how much you try to discourage it.

34 jaunte  10/03/08 5:59:55 pm reply quote

"There are two obvious tactical reasons for the book's omission of any explicit conclusions about the "debate." The first reason is simply that the authors know precisely the sort of conclusions they'd like everyone to reach: some variation of the creationism that has been deemed legally intolerable by the courts. But they're also undoubtedly aware of survey results that indicate that well over 10 percent of US teachers "teach creationism as a 'valid scientific alternative to Darwinian explanations for the origin of species."
Here's the survey:
[Link: biology.plosjournals.org...]

35 eon  10/03/08 6:00:08 pm reply quote

re: #11 Charles

You are simply wrong. This agenda is being pushed hard, all over the country. Attempting to brush it off is ridiculous. And dangerous.

Just like the multiculturalists who "responded" to 9/11 by introducing "live as a Muslim days" and "jihad games" in schools in California- "So our children will better understand why they are angry at us" (and of course, be inculcated with the idea of yet another non-Western culture being soooo superior to us insensitive, linear-thinking, non-mystical descendants of Dead White Males).

They, and the "ID" crowd, are opposite sides of the same tarnished coin.

Should there be discussions of "ID" in school? Yes, but not in science classes. Such subject matter properly belongs in a college-prep or junior college course on philosophy. Alongside the Agnostics, the Jains, and other cult-like beliefs.

Personally, I put the "IDiots" about even with the UFO contactee cults, but maybe that's just me.

Oh, news flash to Schwabe; A genome is not a cell. Nor is it motile.

/Unlike him, I got an A in high-school Biology

cheers

eon

36 Karridine  10/03/08 6:01:28 pm reply quote

Bright blue after-the-deluge Bangkok Saturday morning and I'd LOVE to stay and defend rational thought against the corrupting worms of Intelligent Desire, but work calls for a few hours.

Man the barricades (and ladies, barricade the men!) and we'll meet in a few hours hence... :D

37 sattv4u2  10/03/08 6:01:29 pm reply quote

re: #30 Charles

I understand Jindal is an ID advocate. My question was does he (or any) district utilize the DI text.

REPEAT,,,
If there IS a system that is leaning that way, I will lead the charge (both realistically and financially) to keep it out of the public schools, regardless of what my personal beleif is! I do NOT want it taught in PUBLIC school. I can't be more blunt.

38 Wishing  10/03/08 6:02:43 pm reply quote

re: #8 HelloDare

The arguments supporting intelligent design are beyond stupid.

Well call me stupid then...i really dont give a rip =)

39 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  10/03/08 6:03:04 pm reply quote

re: #35 eon
Oh, news flash to Schwabe; A genome is not a cell. Nor is it motile.

/Unlike him, I got an A in high-school Biology

Ah, but he stuck around in college and eventually got a book deal pedaling this crap around.

I wonder how much he got in government grants to pursue this tripe.

40 Sharmuta  10/03/08 6:04:10 pm reply quote
In June, Louisiana became the first state to enact a law specifically enabling the use of supplemental materials for the critical evaluation of evolution; similar legislation has been introduced in several other states. EE appears to have been intelligently designed to be the sort of supplemental text that's appropriate under the Louisiana legislation, and so it's likely to be making an appearance in classrooms there. But EE may appear in other states, as the approval process for supplementary material is often far less strict than that governing textbooks.

So it's not meant to be a text book, it's a supplemental to be used to skirt the Constitution, confuse children, enrich the DI and cost taxpayers. Lovely.

41 jaunte  10/03/08 6:04:29 pm reply quote

From the survey:
"Of the 25% of teachers who devoted time to creationism or intelligent design, nearly half agreed or strongly agreed that they teach creationism as a “valid scientific alternative to Darwinian explanations for the origin of species.” Nearly the same number agreed or strongly agreed that when they teach creationism or intelligent design they emphasize that “many reputable scientists view these as valid alternatives to Darwinian Theory”

[Link: biology.plosjournals.org...]

42 Basho  10/03/08 6:05:40 pm reply quote

Regarding whether this book does anything or not: Michael Behe wrote that horrible book Darwin's Black Box, and millions of people have bought every word and are convinced evolution is just some anti-religious nonsense. NRO called that book one of the most influential non-fiction books of the 20th century. These books cause real danger. They fool the gullible and ignorant, miseducate thousands, and put money in the pockets of charlatans. For this reason it's important to be vigilant and proactive against these people because they do have real influence and cause real problems.

43 eon  10/03/08 6:05:47 pm reply quote

re: #40 Sharmuta

So it's not meant to be a text book, it's a supplemental to be used to skirt the Constitution, confuse children, enrich the DI and cost taxpayers. Lovely.

What I'd like to know is, where are all the "separation of church and state" people in this? Are they even aware of this?

/or did I miss a memo somewhere along the line?

cheers

eon

44 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  10/03/08 6:08:29 pm reply quote

re: #43 eon

What I'd like to know is, where are all the "separation of church and state" people in this? Are they even aware of this?

/or did I miss a memo somewhere along the line?

cheers

eon

Ah, but you see, they're not saying its a religious arguement out in the open. They're attacking the theories. Nevermind their theory has no scientific backing and falls apart under even the most casual glance.

Its why they can work with the Islamists. Anything to weaken the existing power base.

45 Outrider  10/03/08 6:08:30 pm reply quote

re: #22 sattv4u2

Tha the does. Do you have any evidence that he wants to institute the theory of ID in the LA public schools (and not just because he is a beleiver)

For a start?

A Catholic convert who grew up in a Hindu household, Jindal has made his name by aligning himself with the cultural conservative wing of the Republican Party, fiercely opposing stem cell research and abortion while favoring the teaching of Intelligent Design in public schools.

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana, June 27, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Louisiana public school teachers can now educate their students about the theory of intelligent design and scientific criticisms of Darwinian evolutionary theory thanks to a new law signed this week by Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal. The Louisiana Science Education Act now allows teachers to supplement the state's curricula with additional scientific materials, but groups opposed to any debate over the "origin of the species" have warned that the new law will become the origin of the lawsuits if they believe it facilitates religion.

46 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 6:08:55 pm reply quote

re: #30 Charles

This is why I say your opinions aren't worth much. You don't even know the facts.

Jindal has explicitly supported the teaching of creationism in science classes, on several occasions, and I've posted links. The state of Louisiana passed a bill that will specifically allow textbooks like the one that is the subject of this article.

And we're two months into the school yesr. Where's the promised lawsuit?

/it only took a one paragraph statement read in class to nail ID to the floorboards in Pennsylvania

47 jaunte  10/03/08 6:09:11 pm reply quote

Survey methodology:
"The survey permits a statistically valid and current portrait of US science teachers that complements US and international surveys of the general public on evolution and scientific literacy [2,24] and on evolution in the classroom [3,25]. Between March 5 and May 1, 2007, 939 teachers participated in the study, either by mail or by completing an identical questionnaire online. Our overall response rate of 48% yielded a sample that may be generalized to the population of all public school teachers who taught a high school–level biology course in the 2006–2007 academic year, with all percentage estimates reported in this essay's tables and figures having a margin of error of no more than 3.2% at the 95% confidence level."
[Link: biology.plosjournals.org...]

Note that the sample is not skewed by sampling private schools, as has been suggested in past discussions.

48 Sharmuta  10/03/08 6:10:31 pm reply quote

re: #43 eon

What I'd like to know is, where are all the "separation of church and state" people in this? Are they even aware of this?

/or did I miss a memo somewhere along the line?

cheers

eon

Some might not be aware, which is why it's important that Charles continues to post about this subject.

Others who are aware seem to think it's not a big deal and think Charles should focus on something else, I guess.

49 Charles  10/03/08 6:10:31 pm reply quote

re: #41 jaunte

From the survey:
"Of the 25% of teachers who devoted time to creationism or intelligent design, nearly half agreed or strongly agreed that they teach creationism as a “valid scientific alternative to Darwinian explanations for the origin of species.” Nearly the same number agreed or strongly agreed that when they teach creationism or intelligent design they emphasize that “many reputable scientists view these as valid alternatives to Darwinian Theory”

[Link: biology.plosjournals.org...]

This should be a wake-up call for those who continue to insist that this subject is unimportant. The United States has slipped to an appallingly low level in science education, and one big reason is the widespread support for Dark Ages beliefs like creationism -- even among science teachers.

50 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 6:11:05 pm reply quote

re: #33 Charles

I propose to continue posting about this subject, no matter how much you try to discourage it.

/I've never asked you not to, we just have differing opinions about the severity of the threat

51 Charles  10/03/08 6:12:28 pm reply quote

re: #48 Sharmuta

Some might not be aware, which is why it's important that Charles continues to post about this subject.

Others who are aware seem to think it's not a big deal and think Charles should focus on something else, I guess.

I've noticed that it doesn't matter how much I post on other subjects. Every time there's a thread on the intelligent design hoax, the same people pop up and tell me I'm wasting my time, they're bored, who cares, etc.

52 DistantThunder  10/03/08 6:13:31 pm reply quote

"One time at ID camp...."

53 pingjockey  10/03/08 6:14:36 pm reply quote

re: #51 Charles
Tough shit. Let 'em read something else. This creeping of nonscience into science is not a joke.

54 Basho  10/03/08 6:15:08 pm reply quote

re: #42 Basho

Here's the link to NRO I mentioned:

[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

Here's a little comment they left after Behe's book was listed:

Gilder: "Overthrows Darwin at the end of the 20th century in the same way that quantum theory overthrew Newton at the beginning."

Well, there you have it. Explore Evolution may be on their 21st century list if people just ignore it.

55 DistantThunder  10/03/08 6:15:52 pm reply quote

If you are bored by the ID threads - that's proof that YOU are not the intended audience. Get it?

56 eon  10/03/08 6:16:24 pm reply quote

re: #48 Sharmuta

Some might not be aware, which is why it's important that Charles continues to post about this subject.

Others who are aware seem to think it's not a big deal and think Charles should focus on something else, I guess.

Not me. I was always taught two things;

1. In warfare, always honor a threat.

2. The best diversion is a threat the enemy is forced to honor.

("Threat"- enemy force, present, apparent, or "in being")
("Honor"- respond to and/or orient elements to guard against)

cheers

eon

57 Alberta Oil Peon  10/03/08 6:16:30 pm reply quote

re: #17 sattv4u2

Okay, lets play it your way. Pushing as hard as they are, is there a school system that you're aware of that has adopted the text? Is there a system that has it under serious consideration? I'm not being snarky or argumentative! I really want to know. If there IS a system that is leaning that way, I will lead the charge (both realistically and financially) to keep it out of the public schools, regardless of what my personal beleif is! I do NOT want it taught in PUBLIC school. I can't be more blunt.

And if Charles wasn't diligent about bringing things like this to your attention, how, may I ask, would you even know if it were being done in your school district? Do you make a practice of attending all the meetings at which textbooks are chosen?

Intelligent Design is merely one of the many demons of irrationality against which we must struggle. Consider these posts as disseminating intelligence about the enemy.

58 Basho  10/03/08 6:17:20 pm reply quote

re: #57 Alberta Oil Peon

Hey, well put!

59 pingjockey  10/03/08 6:18:06 pm reply quote

WAAAAAAAAAY OT Tampa Bay 6 WSox 2

60 sattv4u2  10/03/08 6:18:08 pm reply quote

re: #45 Outrider

Louisiana public school teachers can now educate their students about the theory of intelligent design and scientific criticisms of Darwinian evolutionary theory

Is there a sanctioned textbook? (that IS the subject of this thread, btw) In that the teacher CAN (not MUST ,,, not HAS TOO) is also telling

Again, please see my #37, highlighted portions in particular

61 Charles  10/03/08 6:18:45 pm reply quote

re: #60 sattv4u2

Louisiana public school teachers can now educate their students about the theory of intelligent design and scientific criticisms of Darwinian evolutionary theory

Is there a sanctioned textbook? (that IS the subject of this thread, btw) In that the teacher CAN (not MUST ,,, not HAS TOO) is also telling

Again, please see my #37, highlighted portions in particular

Are you a creationist?

62 Tarkloon  10/03/08 6:18:46 pm reply quote

re: #46 Killian Bundy

And we're two months into the school yesr. Where's the promised lawsuit?

/it only took a one paragraph statement read in class to nail ID to the floorboards in Pennsylvania

You have to have someone with standing to file, and to have someone with standing you have to have a parent who knows enough to flush out this nonsense, as well as one who has enough spine to confront it. It could take a while to hit that combo.

63 doriangrey  10/03/08 6:18:51 pm reply quote

re: #51 Charles

I've noticed that it doesn't matter how much I post on other subjects. Every time there's a thread on the intelligent design hoax, the same people pop up and tell me I'm wasting my time, they're bored, who cares, etc.

Charles, you can always invite them to go else where. If they don't like the subject of one of the articles (or even a hundred) you post then they should read another or shut the hell up.

64 DistantThunder  10/03/08 6:19:49 pm reply quote

I had a mini-insight the other day......ID Creationism is to Evolution
as Liberal ideology is to Economics.

It's just that Liberals have so many crazy ideas about money, and social science that is absolutely disasterous, but they refuse to acknowledge the legitimate principles of economics.

Maybe it's a stretch - but one is a science and the favored ideology - NOT

65 Sharmuta  10/03/08 6:20:05 pm reply quote

re: #51 Charles

I've noticed that it doesn't matter how much I post on other subjects. Every time there's a thread on the intelligent design hoax, the same people pop up and tell me I'm wasting my time, they're bored, who cares, etc.

Not so different than the threads on fascism, if you ask me, and look how that turned out. You were right all along about those bastards and you're right about this too.

66 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 6:20:26 pm reply quote

There's just no way you can make these people stop believing what they believe.

/and again, until they violate the law, what are you going to do about it?

67 taxfreekiller  10/03/08 6:20:31 pm reply quote

Can not please every one all the time so, its good to please yourself some of the time too, also.

Sort of like if its your stock tank and you want to stock it with carp and eat carp, its your hook, your bait and your fishing pole and your time.
So, other fishermen need to try to get an invite to the next pond where there are lots of bass and stuff.

Myself, I'm personally creationist undesigned thus nothing makes any sense to me or about me ever, and I fish for alligator gar.

68 MacGregor  10/03/08 6:20:45 pm reply quote

In our CT highschool, the brighter kids get a good education while the average and below average kids are indoctrinated into potential eco-socialist state workers. How much is a state willing to dumb down the majority of kids for what purpose. Control? Subversion?

69 DistantThunder  10/03/08 6:21:05 pm reply quote

re: #57 Alberta Oil Peon

And if Charles wasn't diligent about bringing things like this to your attention, how, may I ask, would you even know if it were being done in your school district? Do you make a practice of attending all the meetings at which textbooks are chosen?

Intelligent Design is merely one of the many demons of irrationality against which we must struggle. Consider these posts as disseminating intelligence about the enemy.

It's very prominent in the fundamental homeschool community which is a subset of the Christian homeschool community.

70 CapeCoddah  10/03/08 6:21:16 pm reply quote

Great article, Charles. Those people are not, borderline deranged, just plain deranged does it nicely. Nice job tweaking their noses, too.

71 sattv4u2  10/03/08 6:21:34 pm reply quote

re: #57 Alberta Oil Peon

And if Charles wasn't diligent about bringing things like this to your attention, how, may I ask, would you even know if it were being done in your school district? Do you make a practice of attending all the meetings at which textbooks are chosen?

Intelligent Design is merely one of the many demons of irrationality against which we must struggle. Consider these posts as disseminating intelligence about the enemy.

not ALL, but I do review the curriculum and the list of texts prior to the opening of each school year

(thats my JOB as a PARENT)

72 DistantThunder  10/03/08 6:22:10 pm reply quote

re: #66 Killian Bundy

There's just no way you can make these people stop believing what they believe.

/and again, until they violate the law, what are you going to do about it?

Enlighten the rest of us as to the threat. Imagine if we'd all been on top of Fannie and Freddie the whole time - that didn't come out right - but you know what I mean.

73 Charles  10/03/08 6:22:53 pm reply quote

re: #66 Killian Bundy

There's just no way you can make these people stop believing what they believe.

/and again, until they violate the law, what are you going to do about it?

You are beginning to get on my last nerve.

74 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 6:23:09 pm reply quote

re: #62 Tarkloon

You have to have someone with standing to file, and to have someone with standing you have to have a parent who knows enough to flush out this nonsense, as well as one who has enough spine to confront it. It could take a while to hit that combo.

/are you kidding me?

75 taxfreekiller  10/03/08 6:23:16 pm reply quote

By the by anyone know the real good recipe for cooking alligator gar fish?

76 Kragar (proud to be kafir)  10/03/08 6:24:04 pm reply quote

re: #66 Killian Bundy

There's just no way you can make these people stop believing what they believe.

/and again, until they violate the law, what are you going to do about it?

Taking them at all seriously is the wrong approach. Mockery, scorn, and open derision can work wonders.

77 Killian Bundy  10/03/08 6:24:38 pm reply quote

re: #73 Charles

You are beginning to get on my last nerve.

/well, I certainly don't want to do that, I'll take a break

78 Tarkloon  10/03/08 6:25:39 pm reply quote

re: #74 Killian Bundy

No I am not kidding you. Those are facts, did Kitzmiller happen in an Urban school district? No. It did not. Do you suppose that parents in rural districts are avid members? Probably not, and they are probably paying more attention to other things.

79 CyanSnowHawk  10/03/08 6:26:49 pm reply quote

re: #16 Killian Bundy

I'm pretty sure my position's clear.

/it's not going to fly once it hits the courts and there's not really much you can do about it preemptively

You can expose it to public scrutiny, and with luck, not have to deal with it in the courts.

80 DistantThunder  10/03/08 6:26:52 pm reply quote

Sarah Palin is evidence of Survival of the Fittest - and with 5 children she continues to pass on her DNA. Meanwhile liberals continue to eliminate their future voters.

81 sattv4u2  10/03/08 6:26:59 pm reply quote

re: #61 Charles

Are you a creationist?

If you're asking me if I beleive what my faith and religion teaches me about the origin of life, than I would say yes
If you are asking if I beleive that this earth and all living and non-living things on it have evolved over the eons, I would also have to say yes.
Do I force my beleifs on others? By your mere question to me (the fact that you nor others here know if I was or not) proves that I do NOT force my beleifs on others. Do I want Creationism/ ID/ Explore Evolution/ or the phrase du jour taught in PUIBLIC SCHOOLS,,, again , see my #37

82 sattv4u2  10/03/08 6:28:17 pm reply quote

re: #77 Killian Bundy

/well, I certainly don't want to do that, I'll take a break

is there room in the TAKE A BREAK corner of the room for me too ?

83 solomonpanting  10/03/08 6:30:02 pm reply quote

Science needs ID like a fish needs a bicycle.

84 Alberta Oil Peon  10/03/08 6:31:13 pm reply quote

re: #69 DistantThunder

It's very prominent in the fundamental homeschool community which is a subset of the Christian homeschool community.

DT, I don't think I would want to be part of a country that tried to dictate what parents could or could not teach to their own children. Other than home-schooled kids should be able to pass standard exams on the Three R type stuff.

The problem with the ID crowd is that they are attempting to use the taxpayer-funded public education system to indoctrinate other people's children into their cult. That's a very Fascist notion, when you think about it. (I debated the use of the term "leftist" instead of "fascist", and decided it's a toss-up.)

85 eon  10/03/08 6:31:30 pm reply quote

re: #68 MacGregor

In our CT highschool, the brighter kids get a good education while the average and below average kids are indoctrinated into potential eco-socialist state workers. How much is a state willing to dumb down the majority of kids for what purpose. Control? Subversion?

All of the above.


"Isn't ignorance and superstition the foundation of all dictatorships?"

-Second Stage Lensman, E.E. "Doc" Smith

If people are taught to think magically, and taught that it is wrong (evil, immoral, "judgmental") to think logically, ipso facto they are more easily controlled, and will tend to fall into the traditional "The Leader Knows Best" mode so beloved of every totalitarian movement in history.

"Magical Thinking" is a mode in which cause and effect are not recognized as related to each other, and in which literally anything can be seen as existing simply because someone wished it so. By extension, this disconnect results in people failing to recognize that when an illogical or irrational procedure is followed repeatedly, it will fail the same way every time. As per Einstein's observation that

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time.


In this respect, the IDiots and the "Progressives" have much in common.


cheers

eon

86 jaunte  10/03/08 6:33:04 pm reply quote

The more this subject is talked about here and in other parts of the web, the more likely the dishonest tactics of the Discovery Institute and its allies will become more commonly known. The sooner the better, because the task of repairing science education will otherwise become more and more expensive. After this week, at least, that should mean something.

Keep on posting, Charles.

87 Alberta Oil Peon  10/03/08 6:33:19 pm reply quote

re: #71 sattv4u2

not ALL, but I do review the curriculum and the list of texts prior to the opening of each school year

(thats my JOB as a PARENT)

Great! Now that this thread has informed you of this snake-in-the-grass excuse for a supplemental text, you can be ready to squelch it when it rears its ugly head in your school district.

88 sattv4u2  10/03/08 6:33:54 pm reply quote

re: #78 Tarkloon

No I am not kidding you. Those are facts, did Kitzmiller happen in an Urban school district? No. It did not. Do you suppose that parents in rural districts are avid members? Probably not, and they are probably paying more attention to other things.

Having lived for 45 years in Boston, and for the past 10 in rural Georgia, I would say that the exact OPPOSITE is true. In the URBAN setting, a very small percentage of parents were involved. In the rural/ suburbs, the participation is much greater, IMHO

89 Racer X  10/03/08 6:34:19 pm reply quote