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William Ayers' Role In Obama's Appointment As Annenberg Challenge Chairman

Politics | Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 10:28:12 pm PDT

Prepare yourself for a shock — the New York Times article on Barack Obama’s associations with former Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers did not tell the whole story: NY Times Confirms Ayers’ Role in Obama Appointment as Chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

I can easily understand why some readers may have become confused by the explosion of stories today on the Obama/Ayers relationship.

The partial story of the Ayers/Obama relationship told by the New York Times today is collapsing of its own weight but has likely added to the confusion. Since I am one of the “bloggers” referred to without an explanation in the Times’ story I thought I would summarize the top ten highlights of the current state of play.

It turns out as these ten key points confirm what I have argued all along - that Bill Ayers was responsible for the elevation of Obama to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge board and the New York Times reporting on this story actually supports my conclusion, though inadvertently.

908 comments

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1 spirochete  10/05/08 10:30:17 pm reply quote

Imagine that...

2 Cartman  10/05/08 10:30:40 pm reply quote

But he was only eight years old...

3 Oldasdirt  10/05/08 10:31:29 pm reply quote

I would have never have guessed

4 FamHistoryGuy  10/05/08 10:31:33 pm reply quote

Wonder what the pick criteria was.

5 Noah's Arrrgh  10/05/08 10:32:24 pm reply quote

Can anyone delineate for me what the substantiative differences between Timothy McVeigh and William Ayers are? The magnitude of McVeigh's crimes are much larger, true, but that's only because Ayers didn't have the means the create the chaos that McVeigh did. From what I've read, it seems that he had the desire.

And, why is Ayers reallowed into polite company? Shouldn't he be treated with the same contempt that McVeigh is?

6 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:32:55 pm reply quote

But he was only 8......

7 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:33:05 pm reply quote

re: #2 Cartman

GMTA!

8 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:33:34 pm reply quote

Our new president has a friend who blew some stuff up.

9 Cartman  10/05/08 10:34:05 pm reply quote

re: #7 Sharmuta

LOL

10 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:34:16 pm reply quote

re: #8 Killgore Trout

He hasn't won, so please stop.

11 anat  10/05/08 10:35:09 pm reply quote

It's like learning to read Pravda.

12 spirochete  10/05/08 10:36:07 pm reply quote

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Our new president has a friend who blew some stuff up.

Nonfatal bombings, according to AP.

13 Miss Molly  10/05/08 10:36:36 pm reply quote

Barack had a very close relationship with Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers gave Barack his first fund raiser in his home. Why would he do that if they were not close or does he just give fund raisers for any stranger who asks. And, if Barack didn't know exactly who Bill Ayers was he is too stupid to be elected to anything let alone the Presidency

14 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:36:52 pm reply quote

re: #10 Sharmuta

Anything can happen but for right now it looks like a solid Obama victory.

15 stuiec  10/05/08 10:37:03 pm reply quote

re: #6 Sharmuta

Spread the meme.

16 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:37:21 pm reply quote

re: #12 spirochete

Nonfatal bombings, according to AP.

Those are the best kind.

17 RTLM  10/05/08 10:37:43 pm reply quote

The Annenburg Foundation was created to improve school performance of elementary age students.

Here's the shocking outcome:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The project appears to have failed to achieve any of its stated, measurable educational goals. For example, a comprehensive study by the Consortium on Chicago School Research concludes:

"Results suggest that among the schools it supported, the Challenge had little impact on school improvement and student outcomes, with no statistically significant differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain, classroom behavior, student self-efficacy, and social competence."[5]

The CAC managed to build a successor organization, the Chicago Public Education Fund, with a focus upon principal and teacher leadership. The Fund has supported such programs as Teach for America, Golden Apple Teacher Education program (GATE), and New Leaders for New Schools.

/I like a good rabbit hole.

18 Noah's Arrrgh  10/05/08 10:37:44 pm reply quote

re: #12 spirochete

Nonfatal bombings, according to AP.

Didn't one of Ayer's girlfriends die from a mishap with a bomb she and others were building, a bomb that Ayers designed?

19 stuiec  10/05/08 10:39:06 pm reply quote

re: #5 Noah's Arrrgh

Can anyone delineate for me what the substantiative differences between Timothy McVeigh and William Ayers are? The magnitude of McVeigh's crimes are much larger, true, but that's only because Ayers didn't have the means the create the chaos that McVeigh did. From what I've read, it seems that he had the desire.

And, why is Ayers reallowed into polite company? Shouldn't he be treated with the same contempt that McVeigh is?

How would you compare William Ayers and Ted Kaczynski?

20 spirochete  10/05/08 10:39:13 pm reply quote

re: #18 Noah's Arrrgh

Didn't one of Ayer's girlfriends die from a mishap with a bomb she and others were building, a bomb that Ayers designed?

No idea. There was one paragraph in that story with about 5 different insanisms. Still can't believe it.

21 Noah's Arrrgh  10/05/08 10:40:09 pm reply quote

re: #19 stuiec

How would you compare William Ayers and Ted Kaczynski?

Ayers, Kaczynski, and McVeigh. Three peas in a pod.

22 Cartman  10/05/08 10:40:50 pm reply quote

Soros: "This Ayers guy's gotta go."

Obama: "Under the bus?"

Soros: "I'll take care of it."

Obama: "Careful, Grampa. He blows shit up!"

Soros: "Not to worry, son. Not to worry..."

23 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:41:09 pm reply quote

For some reason this was playing in the Atlanta airport the other day.....
Flashlight

Myself and a couple 8 year olds were the only ones dancing.
/Go figure

24 kynna  10/05/08 10:41:20 pm reply quote

They will destroy themselves trying to whitewash Bill Ayers on Obama's behalf. The man is scum with a capital S.C.U.M.

25 least  10/05/08 10:41:22 pm reply quote

KT:
What's up w/your Eeyore-like attitude, lately?
Are you trying to emulate EIDE_INTERFACE?
Chill out a bit, dude.
The situation is (ahem) evolving.

26 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:41:38 pm reply quote
only Ayers could approve of the appointment of Obama. No one else possessed the legal power to do so.

Gee- why would the nyt want to keep this information from us? Hmmm- let me think....

27 Intrepid  10/05/08 10:41:47 pm reply quote

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Our new president has a friend who blew some stuff up.

It ain't over yet, Killgore. A month still to go, and it can flip easily.

/tired of nay-sayers and eeyores!

28 stuiec  10/05/08 10:41:51 pm reply quote

re: #18 Noah's Arrrgh

Didn't one of Ayer's girlfriends die from a mishap with a bomb she and others were building, a bomb that Ayers designed?

Mishap, work accident... it was a nail bomb meant for a dance at an Army base. Note that nail bombs are anti-personnel bombs designed to hurl shrapnel through humans, not simply to blow things up.

29 Irene NYC  10/05/08 10:41:56 pm reply quote

re: #21 Noah's Arrrgh

Ayers, Kaczynski, and McVeigh. Three peas in a pod.


Not at all. Kaczynski was a loner. McVeigh nearly one. Ayers was a cult leader. In fact, he still is.

30 anat  10/05/08 10:42:26 pm reply quote

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Anything can happen but for right now it looks like a solid Obama victory.

To the best of my understanding the polls reflect an assumption that fewer Republicans will bother to vote at all. This will surely happen if they despair. So please don't do that.

31 Macker  10/05/08 10:43:09 pm reply quote

re: #17 RTLM

I wonder if my son's middle school in Chicago was a recipient of funding from this program. Perhaps I should dig a little bit to find out?
And even if it wasn't, the damn Chicago Public Schools is one reason why my son's life hasn't turned out so well for him.

32 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:43:23 pm reply quote

re: #25 least

I'm at one with reality and I'm accepting the reality presented to me. See #23 and dance with me!

33 Cognito  10/05/08 10:43:29 pm reply quote

re: #21 Noah's Arrrgh

Ayers, Kaczynski, and McVeigh. Three peas in a pod.

I wouldn't do that. Such hyperbole dilutes the truth.

34 Irene NYC  10/05/08 10:43:55 pm reply quote

Hey Killgore! Feeling jet laaagggged?

35 stuiec  10/05/08 10:44:13 pm reply quote

re: #21 Noah's Arrrgh

Yep. All of them believing that the system had to be destroyed to be rebuilt in a correct fashion.

It's the same sort of 'love of America' that drives Obama's commitment to 'change': save America by changing everything about it that doesn't conform to the Ayers-Dohrn-Obama vision of utopian America.

36 Noah's Arrrgh  10/05/08 10:44:22 pm reply quote

re: #29 Irene NYC

Not at all. Kaczynski was a loner. McVeigh nearly one. Ayers was a cult leader. In fact, he still is.

I see your point, but realize that Ayers a cult leader only because of the Leftist chic that is afforded him (cf. Che Guevara). In a sane world, Ayers would be every bit the outcast as the other two.

37 Irene NYC  10/05/08 10:45:40 pm reply quote

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I'm at one with reality and I'm accepting the reality presented to me. See #23 and dance with me!

Come on, Kilgore. The reality presented to us is that we're in the middle of a presidential election. Last time around, if I'm not mistaken, just at this time, the polls were also predicting a convincing dem win.

Have some faith!

38 MrPaulRevere  10/05/08 10:46:09 pm reply quote

Bill Ayers, Barack Obama and the Cloward-Priven strategy. I was skeptical when I first started reading this piece, but its very well sourced and worth your time. [Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

39 capitalist piglet  10/05/08 10:46:17 pm reply quote

re: #13 Miss Molly

Barack had a very close relationship with Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers gave Barack his first fund raiser in his home. Why would he do that if they were not close or does he just give fund raisers for any stranger who asks. And, if Barack didn't know exactly who Bill Ayers was he is too stupid to be elected to anything let alone the Presidency

I'm related to someone who gives fundraisers for state-level politicians in his home. I can tell you right now, no one would make the assertion that he is only casually acquainted ("Hi, nice to see you...goodbye.") with these politicians - the idea is absolutely ridiculous. You don't open your home to do that unless you're involved and invested in the person's politics.

It just doesn't pass the smell test. Obama is such a lying punk.

40 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:46:30 pm reply quote

This story's getting legs. That the 0bama camp had to respond to this, while smearing Sarah again, shows MacDaddy's in his OODA loop again.

41 Meremortal  10/05/08 10:46:52 pm reply quote

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Riddle me this...

What do Obama and Osama have in common?


They both have friends who bombed the Pentagon.

42 Irene NYC  10/05/08 10:47:00 pm reply quote

re: #36 Noah's Arrrgh

I see your point, but realize that Ayers a cult leader only because of the Leftist chic that is afforded him (cf. Che Guevara). In a sane world, Ayers would be every bit the outcast as the other two.


Kaczynski was not an outcase. He cast himself out. McVeigh felt case out thought, yes.

But who ever said we live in a sane world? Not moi.
;)

43 Intrepid  10/05/08 10:47:13 pm reply quote

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I'm at one with reality and I'm accepting the reality presented to me. See #23 and dance with me!

HELL NO! You can give up if you want, and it's obvious you want to, but I WILL NOT GIVE UP!

It makes you feel better to come to peace with an Obama victory, fine. But for the rest of us who LOVE OUR LIBERTY, WE WILL NOT GIVE UP!

Come November 5th, if Obama is the next president, I'll still have my self-respect because I fought till the end.

But you, Killgore? You'll have given in.

I'm not prepared to do so.

44 victor_yugo  10/05/08 10:47:37 pm reply quote

re: #33 Cognito

I wouldn't do that. Such hyperbole dilutes the truth.

How is that hyperbole? If any candidate were "palling around" with Kaczynski, I'd want to know that, too, for the exact same reasons.

(McVeigh, too, except he's dead, and can't confirm or deny.)

45 Walter L. Newton  10/05/08 10:47:40 pm reply quote

re: #40 Sharmuta

This story's getting legs. That the 0bama camp had to respond to this, while smearing Sarah again, shows MacDaddy's in his OODA loop again.

Could someone (you maybe) define OODA. I've seen this used here and I'm missing the meaning. Thanks in advance (I think).

46 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:47:54 pm reply quote

Chocolate City

The sun will still shine shine and the birds will sing when Obama is president.

If anyone should ask the meaning of this,
Behold the lilies of the field and its fresh sweet-scented verdure.

47 Macker  10/05/08 10:48:19 pm reply quote

re: #43 Intrepid

LAN ASTASLEM. I Will Not Submit.

48 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:48:38 pm reply quote

re: #37 Irene NYC

Have some faith!

Have you read my posts before?

49 Cartman  10/05/08 10:48:49 pm reply quote

I think Killgore must have partied with Obama's brother in his hut, whilst in Africa,

50 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:48:53 pm reply quote

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

OODA Loop

51 Cognito  10/05/08 10:49:14 pm reply quote

re: #44 victor_yugo

How is that hyperbole? If any candidate were "palling around" with Kaczynski, I'd want to know that, too, for the exact same reasons.

(McVeigh, too, except he's dead, and can't confirm or deny.)

Well. Kaczynski and McVeigh were two of the worst murders in American history. Ayers hasn't been convicted for any such thing.

Now maybe that's because he's smarter than them. Or a less able bomber. But the truth is they're simply not the same.

52 powerpro  10/05/08 10:49:16 pm reply quote

Ayers is just the tip of the iceberg. An indication as to how radical Obama truly is.

Consider his unequivocal support of Raila Odinga...his cousin...who uses rape as a weapon, who has nefarious Arab ties and has his hand in the ongoing violence that has all of Kenya in its barbaric clutches. Inconceivable horror. Gang raping little girls and boys as many as ten times.

Please watch this video and share it with others.

America cannot elect this man to be the president. We cannot allow this to happen.

53 victor_yugo  10/05/08 10:49:27 pm reply quote

re: #38 MrPaulRevere

Bill Ayers, Barack Obama and the Cloward-Priven Coward-driven strategy.

Better, and more apropos.

54 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:49:35 pm reply quote

re: #41 Meremortal

Indeed they do but only one will be your president.

55 Sharmuta  10/05/08 10:49:41 pm reply quote

Killgore- please keep in mind the polls in 2000 & 2004 showed Bush behind at this same point.

56 Walter L. Newton  10/05/08 10:50:00 pm reply quote

re: #50 Sharmuta

57 victor_yugo  10/05/08 10:50:33 pm reply quote

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

Could someone (you maybe) define OODA. I've seen this used here and I'm missing the meaning. Thanks in advance (I think).

Observe
Orient
Decide
Act

It's how fighter pilots do their schtick. Check out Bill Whittle's essay on "Forty-second" Boyd.

58 TheMatrix31  10/05/08 10:50:33 pm reply quote

**sigh**

I can't believe it.

BTW, I heard something about someone giving Ayers and Obama $50 mill or something? What was that for and what was it used for?

59 Cognito  10/05/08 10:50:42 pm reply quote

re: #45 Walter L. Newton

Could someone (you maybe) define OODA. I've seen this used here and I'm missing the meaning. Thanks in advance (I think).

It's the latest cliche. All the rage. Stands for "Observe, Orient, Decide and Act," a military term.

60 Meremortal  10/05/08 10:51:16 pm reply quote

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Indeed they do but only one will be your president.


*

I don't think so.

61 realwest  10/05/08 10:52:20 pm reply quote

re: #46 Killgore Trout
Hey Killgore - if y'all don't mind

The sun will still shine shine and the birds will sing when Obama is president. And our economy will go from a recession to a major league depression and lots of folks will be out of work and will have plenty of time to see the sun shine and listen to the birds sing"

I think that sorta improves it some.

62 Noah's Arrrgh  10/05/08 10:52:53 pm reply quote

re: #33 Cognito

I wouldn't do that. Such hyperbole dilutes the truth.

My point is this: All three desired to commit mass murder for fanatical political / ideological reasons. All three developed plans to carry the murder out. Two of the three were successful in their plans. There is a difference, I admit, but from a moral perspective, there are a lot of similarities. How different, philosophically speaking, were the Weather Underground and the Red Army Faction?

63 Walter L. Newton  10/05/08 10:53:00 pm reply quote

re: #55 Sharmuta

Killgore- please keep in mind the polls in 2000 & 2004 showed Bush behind at this same point.

Yea, but Bush wasn't missing in action. Most everyone here has been complaining about McCain and his lack of making some hard factual points in his campaign. So, I can see why Killgore would see it the way he sees it. He has more evidence on his side than any other view.

64 abolitionist  10/05/08 10:53:28 pm reply quote

Apology if this has already been posted. Found it today (iirc, at floppingaces.net):

Devastating Video, Obama talks about job Ayers gave him

65 victor_yugo  10/05/08 10:53:40 pm reply quote

re: #51 Cognito

Well. Kaczynski and McVeigh were two of the worst murders in American history. Ayers hasn't been convicted for any such thing.

Only on a technicality, and Ayers has stated he "didn't do enough" in so many words. Basically an admission of guilt. In a sane world, Ayers would be behind bars for the rest of his unrepentant, damnable life, or else six feet under, for the same reason as McVeigh and Kaczynski.

66 Meremortal  10/05/08 10:54:11 pm reply quote

Later, Lizards.

67 Irene NYC  10/05/08 10:54:18 pm reply quote

re: #38 MrPaulRevere

Bill Ayers, Barack Obama and the Cloward-Priven strategy. I was skeptical when I first started reading this piece, but its very well sourced and worth your time. [Link: www.americanthinker.com...]


My dad sussed this stuff out from the very first - back in the 60s. It sounded odd at the time because nobody else was discussing it. From his point of view, the introduction of drugs into mainstream American society was also part of this. But then again, he was an immigrant from a country taken over by the Commies and had seen them in action up close and personal.

68 least  10/05/08 10:55:15 pm reply quote

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I'm at one with reality and I'm accepting the reality presented to me. See #23 and dance with me!

Actually, the the fact that we are still here should spur us on to do the right thing until we can't do it no more.
There are those of us who will not . . . cannot idly sit by while evil stuff is happening.
Dance away now, Eeyore.

69 Cognito  10/05/08 10:55:36 pm reply quote

re: #65 victor_yugo

Yep, like I said, perhaps he's a smarter dodger, or a less able bomber.

Neither should make him proud.

70 Cartman  10/05/08 10:55:43 pm reply quote

Well, that's it for me. Catch y'all on the flipside. G'nite...

71 Irene NYC  10/05/08 10:55:46 pm reply quote

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Have you read my posts before?


KT, I'm just commenting on this thread. Did I miss somethin;?
;)

72 Noah's Arrrgh  10/05/08 10:56:40 pm reply quote

re: #51 Cognito

Well. Kaczynski and McVeigh were two of the worst murders in American history. Ayers hasn't been convicted for any such thing.

Now maybe that's because he's smarter than them. Or a less able bomber. But the truth is they're simply not the same.

Just because one is not convicted, doesn't mean one is not culpable. Journalist David Freddoso contends that "Ayers and Dohrn escaped prosecution only because of government misconduct in collecting evidence against them".

73 Syrah  10/05/08 10:57:01 pm reply quote

re: #59 Cognito

It's the latest cliche. All the rage. Stands for "Observe, Orient, Decide and Act," a military term.

I don't think I would call it "cliche" yet. Outside of four websites, I have not heard it used.

But then again, I don't watch TV so I could be missing something.

74 victor_yugo  10/05/08 10:57:57 pm reply quote

re: #67 Irene NYC

My dad sussed this stuff out from the very first - back in the 60s. It sounded odd at the time because nobody else was discussing it. From his point of view, the introduction of drugs into mainstream American society was also part of this. But then again, he was an immigrant from a country taken over by the Commies and had seen them in action up close and personal.

Not just the Commies. The Reichstag fire was right along those lines as well, 30+ years earlier.

75 MrPaulRevere  10/05/08 10:58:04 pm reply quote

re: #67 Irene NYC

Generally speaking I'm not given to conspiracy theories, but that does not means conspiracies don't exist, I'm not naive. That article made a believer out of me. The author did his homework.

76 Intrepid  10/05/08 10:58:07 pm reply quote

re: #71 Irene NYC

KT, I'm just commenting on this thread. Did I miss somethin;?
;)

I honestly think Killgore Trout wants Obama to win this election. He's been a true "Eeyore" for quite a while now.

Who you voting for, Killgore? You gonna pull that lever for Obama?

77 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 10:58:35 pm reply quote

re: #71 Irene NYC

Did I miss somethin;?


Nah, I'm just enjoying poking the Republicans with a proverbial stick. I'm actually thinking of working less, fishing more and maybe buying seeds from Amsterdam and taking up pot smoking again.

78 Cognito  10/05/08 10:59:14 pm reply quote

re: #73 Syrah

I don't think I would call it "cliche" yet. Outside of four websites, I have not heard it used.

But then again, I don't watch TV so I could be missing something.

It's a local cliche.

Like the popular dude at your junior high who seemed to crop up in everyone's conversation, and yet -- mysteriously -- failed utterly to be noticed by the world beyond.

79 victor_yugo  10/05/08 11:00:05 pm reply quote

re: #51 Cognito

Now maybe that's because he's smarter than them. Or a less able bomber. But the truth is they're simply not the same.

As a Greek/Russian/Ukrainian/etc. Orthodox, one of the things I/we hold is that God judges both the action and the intention. In that regard, Ayers is indeed on par with McVeigh and Kaczynski.

80 Irene NYC  10/05/08 11:00:15 pm reply quote

re: #77 Killgore Trout

Nah, I'm just enjoying poking the Republicans with a proverbial stick. I'm actually thinking of working less, fishing more and maybe buying seeds from Amsterdam and taking up pot smoking again.


Umm, KT? I think the pot in Amsterdam has all gone up in smoke. Somethin' about those darned islamists. But you can still fish!
;)

81 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 11:01:18 pm reply quote

re: #76 Intrepid

Who you voting for, Killgore? You gonna pull that lever for Obama?


Nah, I don't think that's an option for me. Most of my customers are wealthy and the tax hikes will seriously hurt my finances. Oregon doesn't look like a swing state this time so I'll probably not vote. I've done it before and I'll do it again. Wanna grow yer own weed? I might have tips for you.

82 Irene NYC  10/05/08 11:01:41 pm reply quote

re: #51 Cognito

Well. Kaczynski and McVeigh were two of the worst murders in American history. Ayers hasn't been convicted for any such thing.

Now maybe that's because he's smarter than them. Or a less able bomber. But the truth is they're simply not the same.


Cog, the fact that Ayers failed shouldn't be held against him. I mean, he really tried, ya know?

83 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 11:01:58 pm reply quote

re: #80 Irene NYC

But you can still fish!


Close enough for me!

84 TheMatrix31  10/05/08 11:02:30 pm reply quote

What's the Keating Five thing that they're talking about releasing? I need to know how to defend myself.

85 least  10/05/08 11:02:57 pm reply quote

re: #37 Irene NYC

Come on, Kilgore. The reality presented to us is that we're in the middle of a presidential election. Last time around, if I'm not mistaken, just at this time, the polls were also predicting a convincing dem win.

Have some faith!

Do NOT use the "F" word around KT.
It makes him testy!
:)

86 lummox  10/05/08 11:02:58 pm reply quote

re: #51 Cognito

Well. Kaczynski and McVeigh were two of the worst murders in American history. Ayers hasn't been convicted for any such thing.

Now maybe that's because he's smarter than them. Or a less able bomber. But the truth is they're simply not the same.

Not for lack of effort, just lack of talent, TG.

87 Irene NYC  10/05/08 11:03:34 pm reply quote

KT, You're in Oregon? I thought you were mid-country somewhere - like around Tennessee. My bad.

88 Intrepid  10/05/08 11:03:51 pm reply quote

For the shoe-lovers/foot fetish folks here at LGF:

Check out Lucianne's Site

Great shoes, Sarah!

89 Sharmuta  10/05/08 11:03:56 pm reply quote

re: #84 TheMatrix31

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

90 stuiec  10/05/08 11:04:33 pm reply quote

re: #51 Cognito

Well. Kaczynski and McVeigh were two of the worst murders in American history. Ayers hasn't been convicted for any such thing.

Now maybe that's because he's smarter than them. Or a less able bomber. But the truth is they're simply not the same.

That is a stretch.

McVeigh committed one large, spectacular bombing, which indeed made him one of the largest mass-murderers in American history.

Kaczynski committed a long string of small-scale bombings, only a few of which caused fatalities. His total count of murders was three.

Ayers was a full conspirator and bomb designer for the Weather Underground. He shares full complicity in all of their crimes, which killed one police officer in a San Francisco bombing; three of his own organization in a 'work accident' in New York City; and two policemen and a Brink's guard in an armored car robbery in New York state.

The only reason Ayers was not convicted is that the FBI committed serious errors in gathering evidence against him, rendering the evidence useless. He has freely admitted his status as a Weatherman and thus his complicity in the Weatherman/Weather Underground crimes.

I would argue that Ayers is in fact a 'worse' murderer than Ted Kaczynski.

91 Irene NYC  10/05/08 11:05:58 pm reply quote

re: #84 TheMatrix31

What's the Keating Five thing that they're talking about releasing? I need to know how to defend myself.


It was the S&L scandal some 20 years ago or so. All you need to know was that McCain was exonerated and was maliciously named to the group to start off with cuz they needed some republican names to offset all the dems. It was just smear. They be gettin' desperate now.

92 capitalist piglet  10/05/08 11:06:25 pm reply quote

re: #72 Noah's Arrrgh

Just because one is not convicted, doesn't mean one is not culpable. Journalist David Freddoso contends that "Ayers and Dohrn escaped prosecution only because of government misconduct in collecting evidence against them".


Furthermore, do a Google seach on "Guilty as hell, free as a bird" and Ayers. Yeah, that's right - that's what he said about himself.

93 realwest  10/05/08 11:06:29 pm reply quote

re: #63 Walter L. Newton
Ah yes that's true, Walter, but please keep in mind that Obama has MUCH more money to spend than does McCain, for after saying he would take Public Funding, he then discovered how many "americans" lived in Iran and were sending him millions of dollars in contributions to his campaign and promptly reneged on his promise to accept public funding.
Not to mention the very simple fact that when Obama is riding high (as he would appear to be in the polls right now) he does have a marked tendancy to become full of himself and is a walking gaffe machine, suprerior in every way to Joe Biden in that department.
And also don't forget that there are TWO more debates, and while the First debate - which was supposed to be on McCain's strong suit, Foreign Affairs, over 1/3 of the time was spent on discussing the economy as Congress had just defeated the first version of the bailout bill. The Second debate, however IS on the Economy and honestly, Walter, Obama has NOTHING. His whole campaign was to be based on increasing taxes to help the majority of the poor and even he - no doubt in a weak moment - had to say that he'd have to scale down his economic plans - and it would certainly be Kosher for McCain to start nailing Obama on Obama's lack of any kind of plan to get us out of recession before it becomes a depression. Indeed, today in NC, Obama started his speech saying "McCain doesn't know anything about the economy. Take Health Care for example" and then spent oh 15 minutes or so describing - still in general terms - what Obama would do: give ALL Americans Health care, but that only the very rich of our nation would have to pay for it.
Geebus, even Mom, who doesn't focus too much on politics (she is more sane than her son!) said "WHAT? I thought he was going to talk about the economy not health care!"
Seriously - the meltdown and bailout bill have truly taken away the one BIG STICK that Obama could whack McCain with and now leaves all of Obama's other campaign programs in the lurch.

94 Gorgon Zola  10/05/08 11:06:32 pm reply quote

we must defeat this communist,,

95 RTLM  10/05/08 11:06:35 pm reply quote

re: #84 TheMatrix31

What's the Keating Five thing that they're talking about releasing? I need to know how to defend myself.

The Keating Five is McCain and four other Dems - including Jihn Glenn that got mixed up with Lincoln Savings and loan. An S&L that went belly up and took some IIRC 21,000 senior citizen's life savings.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. The five senators, Alan Cranston (D-CA), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-OH), John McCain (R-AZ), and Donald W. Riegle (D-MI), were accused of improperly aiding Charles H. Keating, Jr., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB).

The result of the collapse of Lincoln Savings and Loan was that 21,000 mostly elderly investors lost their life savings. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

All five of the senators involved served out their terms. Only Glenn and McCain ran for re-election, and they were both re-elected.

On October 6, 2008 the Keating Five scandal, its parallel to the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008 and specifically the role in the scandal of U.S. Senator and Republican nominee for president John McCain, was reintroduced into public political discourse by the campaign of his opponent, Barack Obama through a documentary entitled Keating Economics.

Obama's threatening to unload a torrent of 1989 news.

96 Intrepid  10/05/08 11:09:08 pm reply quote

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Nah, I don't think that's an option for me. Most of my customers are wealthy and the tax hikes will seriously hurt my finances. Oregon doesn't look like a swing state this time so I'll probably not vote. I've done it before and I'll do it again. Wanna grow yer own weed? I might have tips for you.

Wow - you won't vote because you don't think it will make a difference?

Hmmmm.

And no thank you, I don't smoke weed. I'd prefer living in reality, even with all its ups and downs.

But thank you for the offer!

Ya'll seeing some autumn leaves changing yet?

97 Irene NYC  10/05/08 11:09:29 pm reply quote

re: #93 realwest

Hey real!
I'm SOOOOO glad you pointed out all those furrin Americans living in exotic places like Teheran who are supporting The One. Time for that story to go viral, eh?
{smooch}

98 TheMatrix31  10/05/08 11:10:11 pm reply quote

Thanks, guys. So seems like it's pretty stupid?

99 Cognito  10/05/08 11:10:28 pm reply quote

re: #79 victor_yugo

As a Greek/Russian/Ukrainian/etc. Orthodox, one of the things I/we hold is that God judges both the action and the intention. In that regard, Ayers is indeed on par with McVeigh and Kaczynski.

Certainly God does hold action and thought equal. Unfortunately*, though, the American system of jurisprudence cannot. So the comparison, in my view, falls a bit flat -- it comes off as hyperbole.

*(Or, perhaps, thank goodness. If the courts could peer into the hearts of men, I would have been convicted of copious and indiscriminate womanizing by the age of 13.)

100 Irene NYC  10/05/08 11:10:45 pm reply quote

OMG, gotta run - it's after 2 am and I've got work to do in like 6 hours.

101 Killgore Trout  10/05/08 11:11:50 pm