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Financial Crisis Watch

Business | Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:33:03 am PDT

As we write, the Dow index is down more than 700 points. We’re in free fall, as the effects of a worldwide sell-off ravage the markets.

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1276 comments

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1 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:34:20am

Hold on tight folks!

2 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:34:32am

//////I'm still unsure whose fault this is...

3 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:34:35am

At what point would trading be suspended?

4 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:34:56am

This is what happens when government interferes in the market. *sigh*

5 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:35:34am

I think I'll just avoid watching the numbers for the rest of the day.

I wonder if tomorrow we'll see another White Tuesday (?) bounce.

6 Bobblehead  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:35:36am

It's going to be a bumpy ride.

7 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:35:48am

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

At this time of day, when it drops 2400 points.

8 Cognito  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:35:54am

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

I'm not sure it can be, at this point in the day.

9 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:36:09am

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

When there is no more stock to sell off. /

10 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:36:24am

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

A one hour stoppage is put in place if the market goes down by 1,100 points before 2pm. Half hour stoppage until 2:30pm, no stoppage after that until it goes down by 2,200 points. Then trading is suspended for the day.

11 Cognito  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:36:29am

Ah. Apparently at 2400 points.

Thanks, Watchmen.

12 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:36:38am

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

Once it drops ten percent (~1100 points).

13 Charles  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:36:48am

Gold up $36 an ounce.

14 TheBull271  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:36:56am

Anybody else watching the Lehman Bros CEO Fuld hearin?

15 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:37:20am

McCain's talking about Fannie Mae...

So, tomorrow night's debate was supposed to be drawn entirely from audience questions. Now it's almost certain all those questions will be on the economy.

16 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:37:29am

re: #12 Ward Cleaver

Once it drops ten percent (~1100 points).

Only before 2:30pm EDT. Otherwise, it takes a 2,200 point drop to suspend trading.

17 USCMSNE  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:37:47am

Thank God for tax breaks on Wooden Arrows! There's no telling how bad this could have been without those incentives.

/Do I really need to sarc this?/

18 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:37:51am

re: #15 arethusa

Now it's almost certain all those questions will be on the economy.

So, no talking polar bears?

19 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:05am

Oh well, I'm not retiring for 45 years anyway and a large portion of my 401K is in a VERY conservative savings-type account, with only about 25% in stocks... The portion in stocks has dropped 5K in a week...

20 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:12am

re: #2 arethusa

//////I'm still unsure whose fault this is...

Bushitler! Chimpy Halliburton!

21 IngisKahn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:20am

re: #3 MandyManners

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

22 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:20am

re: #18 Occasional Reader

So, no talking polar bears?

No, instead it's all going to be talking heads. Heh.

23 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:34am

thedopefishlives,

This is what happens when government interferes in the market. *sigh*

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

24 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:40am

re: #14 TheBull271

Anybody else watching the Lehman Bros CEO Fuld hearin?

No, just saw a snippet at lunchtine, on CNN.

25 Rancher  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:38:55am

Buy, these things are always an overreaction and its Monday. Buy an index fund and sell tomorrow or Friday.

/Free advice is whorth what you paid for it.

26 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:39:09am

re: #18 Occasional Reader

So, no talking polar bears?

/Nor moose, nor pigs, nor fluffy bunnies...

27 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:39:14am

Oops. I made the mistake of looking at my 401(k) and threw up in my mouth a little.

28 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:39:59am

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

thedopefishlives,


To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

There's plenty of blame to go around, unless you listen to the Dems; then it's all Bush's fault.

29 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:06am

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though

Greedy lenders normally have no interest in lending to dumb borrowers.

Unless lousy incentive structures are put in place for them to do so.

Which brings us back to "government interference in the market"...

30 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:13am

But, but, but . . . the bailout was supposed to keep this from happening!

/

I don't even want to look at my 401k right now.

Patience, patience. As my dad has always said, the stock market is for the long-term, not for the faint of heart.

31 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:14am

re: #13 Charles

Gold up $36 an ounce.


That's good!
Cause that's what I DO have!
So, At what point should I sell it?
Or not!

32 Dream  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:16am

Nobody panic! Remember this wonderful bailout bill is going to ensure the most important of all financial markets today. That's right...wooden toy arrow's. As long as those are in tact we will survive.

Good Allah on high wasn't this bailout supposed to prevent a financial meltdown and that was why it was so urgent?

33 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:26am

re: #27 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Oops. I made the mistake of looking at my 401(k) and threw up in my mouth a little.

Not even going to look at mine.

34 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:54am

I think we'll bottom at 8000 or so but who knows. Stash your money in gold or a brokerage account. Wait for the dust to settle then pick through the carnage for value companies.

35 Irene NYC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:40:59am

re: #31 reloadingisnotahobby

Not.

36 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:41:06am

re: #32 Dream

Nobody panic! Remember this wonderful bailout bill is going to ensure the most important of all financial markets today. That's right...wooden toy arrow's. As long as those are in tact we will survive.

Good Allah on high wasn't this bailout supposed to prevent a financial meltdown and that was why it was so urgent?

Maybe that's what the public thought, but it's only the beginning.

37 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:41:08am
38 yma o hyd  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:41:33am

Posted the following in the thread below, just as this thread appeared It bears repeating:

Its interesting, isn't it, that the same MSM who can't find anything bad on B0 are also incapable of finding out who exactly has unleashed this unprecedented raid on the world economy.

Its not just the sub-prime banking crisis - that has been going on for a good year now, and has already led to a state bail-out and nationalisation of one bank here in the UK one year ago!
Other international banks (UBS, for example) were caught in it earlier this year - so why this collapse across the banking industry, across the board in the industrialised countries?

Its not just because of politics (i.e. liberal fascist love a crisis), there's gotta be more to it, or rather: more than just a few semi-public figures lining their pockets.

It is deeply regrettable that there don't seem to be any business journalists willing to dig deeper - all we get, across the board, is wailing and gnashing of teeth, and of course blaming the politicians ...

We deserve better, I think!

39 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:41:35am

/So, which of these things did you NOT think would happen when you woke up this morning:

A) The markets would plummet 700+ points.

B) CNN would call Bill Ayers a terrorist.

Me, too.

40 Bobblehead  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:41:39am

re: #17 USCMSNE

Thank God for tax breaks on Wooden Arrows! There's no telling how bad this could have been without those incentives.

/Do I really need to sarc this?/

I think not.

41 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:41:40am

We have a horrific number of really over-leveraged banks and so forth in the US. That is actually the good news. The bad news is that the leverage of the banks, etc. is around 4 to 5 times ours. Levers work both ways. When things are going up, they make them appear to go up faster. When things are going down, the same thing happens. Iceland is probably no in default on everything on a mark to market model. On mark to market, I suspect that there are a lot of insolvent European things. The EU has not risen to the challenge. It will be bad here, but worse there.

This too shall pass. But I really wish to extend my thanks to my very own congressobject Farney Bank (sic) for his excellent work on FNM and FRE that lead the charge into the sub-prime mess. Somehow, I do not think that electing a marrionette as president will help this in the least.

42 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:25am

re: #32 Dream

Good Allah on high wasn't this bailout supposed to prevent a financial meltdown and that was why it was so urgent?

Bush commented this morning that we won't see the benefits from the bailout all at once. He says it's going to take time.

Well, gee golly, doggone it, doncha know that took a lot of insigth to make that statement. Idiots.

43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:34am

I wonder what the Lord Humongous's advice would be in this situation?

44 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:40am

re: #35 Irene NYC

Not.


I guess the other ?
At what point do I work my ASS off to find more?
I'm a little long in the tooth for that kind of work!
LOL

45 beholden  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:45am

We are taking on too much water to bail out.

46 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:49am

If you have any dry powder, be ready to shoot.

The markets WILL stabilize. That will offer buying opportunities.

/I have no idea where the bottom is and have the losses to prove it.

47 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:58am

re: #17 USCMSNE

/Well, but the taxes on wooden arrows were 39 cents, making a 30-cent arrow 69 cents...something had to be done.

48 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:42:58am

re: #41 Shr_Nfr

But I really wish to extend my thanks to my very own congressobject Farney Bank (sic) for his excellent work on FNM and FRE

Hey, he couldn't help it, the "pillow talk" had him all bewitched and bewildered.

49 Dave the.....  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:43:09am
Oh well, I'm not retiring for 45 years anyway and a large portion of my 401K is in a VERY conservative savings-type account, with only about 25% in stocks... The portion in stocks has dropped 5K in a week...

Buy now.

Don't have the numbers handy, but in verbage....

It tooks many years (decades?) for the stock market to get back to it's (at the time) inflated 1929 levels. I want to say like 20 years.

But on the other hand, if you bought stocks in 1932, you made out pretty good.
Not saying we are headed for anything at all like a depression, but I would consider buying soon if you are 20 or more years away from retirement.

50 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:43:12am

re: #37 buzzsawmonkey

CRAzy
--with apologies to Willie Nelson and Patsy Cline

CRAzy
I'm CRAzy for feeling so panicked
I'm CRAzy
CRAzy for feeling so blue

Although
For a while you can cheat economics
There is someday
That a big nasty bill will come due

Worry
Why do I let myself worry
I'm sure
I can push a bailout through

CRAzy
For fearing my role would be told true
I was CRAzy for buyin'
And I'm CRAzy with lyin'
And I'm CRAzy
To place blame on you

I remember when Rush would play Crazy whenever he talked about Ross Perot.

51 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:43:35am

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

thedopefishlives,

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Actually, my point was more to the effect of the "financial bailout package" that got passed over the weekend. I strongly disagree with the basic premise of the bailout, and I find it rather ironic that the markets are reacting negatively even when the House has passed the bill.

52 chotii  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:43:46am

Maybe we should take those wooden toy arrows and play 'spear and magic helmet!' with a few of these idiots. God. What part of 'representative' don't they understand?

53 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:43:53am

re: #17 USCMSNE

Only problem - you can't shoot wooden arrows through the Sarah-Cuda.

54 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:43:54am

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder what the Lord Humongous's advice would be in this situation?

Heh. I was just explaining to two unarmed liberal friends over lunch that if things got really bad, my plan was to show up with my Mossberg, take their stuff and their wives, and become a Mad Max-style warlord.

55 calcajun  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:44:31am

Guess I need to stop at Wal-Mart on the way home and pick up some ammo--right after I stop at the military surplus store and buy some cases of MRE's.

I suggest you all start watch "Mad Max" and "The Road Warrior" 'cause that might be our future real soon.

On a happier note, more methane is being release into the atmosphere from the warming oceans, and the Europeans want us all to limit our beef and diary intake (Soylent Green, anyone?) Maybe the Mayans have it rigth about 2012.

Drink up, gang!

56 3 wood  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:44:43am

re: #30 Florida Lady

But, but, but . . . the bailout was supposed to keep this from happening!

Without the bail out I think we would have lost an awful lot more.

As it is, I think we will get 2 more drops like this coming before it bottoms out

57 godfrey  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:44:43am

The Eurozone is taking a beating.

The markets are wildly volatile. Bargains galore, if you have the nerve.

58 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:44:49am

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

thedopefishlives,

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Moral hazard, anyone?

59 Adrenalyn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:44:53am

Putin has the oil money to cause this

60 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:44:56am

re: #39 arethusa

The past...not related to today?
Hummm?
All depends on who's dog they're beating!

61 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:45:01am

re: #41 Shr_Nfr

Sorry, but I dropped European before the bad news comment. The European banks like Ing, Barclays, etc. are leveraged around 40 or 50 to 1.

62 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:45:07am

re: #33 Ward Cleaver

Not even going to look at mine.

same here. what's the point? it's not going to be good news....

63 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:45:32am

re: #57 godfrey

The Eurozone is taking a beating. The markets are wildly volatile. Bargains galore, if you have the nerve.

You mean if you have any money.

64 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:45:33am

The man that may have paid for Obama's Harvard eduction, Dr. Khalid Al-Mansour, published a nice book in 1990 - Challenges of Spreading Islam in America and Other Essays

65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:45:42am

re: #54 Occasional Reader

Heh. I was just explaining to two unarmed liberal friends over lunch that if things got really bad, my plan was to show up with my Mossberg, take their stuff and their wives, and become a Mad Max-style warlord.

Get a hockey mask and a loud speaker and show up at their house. "Just walk away. Nobody has to die. Leave the food and women. Just walk away."

/

66 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:45:55am

re: #39 arethusa

/So, which of these things did you NOT think would happen when you woke up this morning:

A) The markets would plummet 700+ points.

B) CNN would call Bill Ayers a terrorist.

Me, too.

I'll take "B" for $100, Alex.

67 godfrey  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:46:27am

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

Well, there is that, yes.

68 acwgusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:46:29am

Time to jump out the window!

Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

69 JimmyTheClaw  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:46:41am

just seen this on fox good idea that bailout huh?

70 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:46:53am

Wasn't the bailout supposed to calm fears, stabilize the market, and prevent a huge sell-off?

Yeah, that was a trillion well spent.

71 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:46:57am

re: #53 Cap'n DOC

Only problem - you can't shoot wooden arrows through the Sarah-Cuda.

/I'm not sure even silver bullets work with that one.

72 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:47:18am

Should I be out shopping for an applecart?

73 USCMSNE  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:47:25am

re: #53 Cap'n DOC

Only problem - you can't shoot wooden arrows through the Sarah-Cuda.

That's actually pretty funny. I've been looking into buying a Fred Bear or PSE bow, recently. Somehow, I must have overlooked this gem!

74 wolfie  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:47:31am

re: #41 Shr_Nfr

Exactly. Obama will just be a puppet of the Schumers, Franks, Dodds, and Pelosis. He himself hasn't a clue.

75 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:47:31am

re: #68 acwgusa

Time to jump out the window!

Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

A kinder, gentler 'jump out the window'...

76 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:47:36am

re: #68 acwgusa

Time to jump out the window! Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

I'm in a garden apartment. Maybe I'll just stick my head out the window and have someone walk on it.

77 godfrey  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:47:56am

700 points?!?!?!?!?!

Orphaned orangutans!

78 alegrias  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:48:23am

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

79 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:48:25am

re: #68 acwgusa

Time to jump out the window!

Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

Throw yourself under Obama's bus!

/yeah, that's it!

80 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:48:52am

It's time to raise taxes!
/Obama

81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:48:58am

re: #69 JimmyTheClaw

just seen this on fox good idea that bailout huh?

Especially rushing it thru despite massive public outcry not to. Of course now that they have the money, Bush says, "We don't want to rush into the situation and have the program not be effective."

Made sure you got the money first though, didn't you?

82 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:00am

It's nice how less than 24 hours after the last draft of the bill was voted down, the market practically recovered from a 777 point loss with a rapid upward swing. Now that this bill has been approved, we are in free fall. I thought it was supposed to save us? I think the slide is people getting the hell out of the Socialist markets.

83 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:10am

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

I'm in a garden apartment. Maybe I'll just stick my head out the window and have someone walk on it.

Crunch!

Ow!

84 acwgusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:17am

re: #79 Ward Cleaver

Throw yourself under Obama's bus!

/yeah, that's it!

I'm too fat.

/Big Ol' Speed bump.

85 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:20am

re: #56 3 wood

Without the bail out I think we would have lost an awful lot more.

As it is, I think we will get 2 more drops like this coming before it bottoms out

Capitulation?

86 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:27am

btw, here is part of McCain's speech today. Looks like the gloves are off:

My opponent has invited serious questioning by announcing a few weeks ago that he would quote — “take off the gloves.” Since then, whenever I have questioned his policies or his record, he has called me a liar.

Rather than answer his critics, Senator Obama will try to distract you from noticing that he never answers the serious and legitimate questions he has been asked. But let me reply in the plainest terms I know. I don’t need lessons about telling the truth to American people. And were I ever to need any improvement in that regard, I probably wouldn’t seek advice from a Chicago politician.

My opponent’s touchiness every time he is questioned about his record should make us only more concerned. For a guy who’s already authored two memoirs, he’s not exactly an open book. It’s as if somehow the usual rules don’t apply, and where other candidates have to explain themselves and their records, Senator Obama seems to think he is above all that. Whatever the question, whatever the issue, there’s always a back story with Senator Obama. All people want to know is: What has this man ever actually accomplished in government? What does he plan for America? In short: Who is the real Barack Obama? But ask such questions and all you get in response is another barrage of angry insults.

He needs to continue hamering these points over and over!

Good on ya, Johnny Mac and team!

87 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:28am
Greedy lenders normally have no interest in lending to dumb borrowers.

Normally yes. Markets, while often the optimal solution, are not infallible though. Half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA.

88 thedopefishlives  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:41am

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

I don't think any of us are panicking and/or saying we're not going to make it.

It's just highly annoying to have to sit and watch this train wreck take place, and slightly worrying to see the empty suits in Washington doing all the WRONG things to fix it.

89 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:44am

re: #80 Killgore Trout

It's time to raise taxes!
/Obama

And rewrite loads of privately-negotiated contracts!
/Biden

90 godfrey  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:45am

In these kinds of situations, you better stock up on sheep.

91 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:49:56am

So?
Most of the B.S. ear mark(PORK)
Was in the form of tax relief.....
Just how many fortune 500 corp make wooden arrows?
Wool research?
I had no idea....Really , none!

92 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:50:00am
93 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:50:00am

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Especially rushing it thru despite massive public outcry not to. Of course now that they have the money, Bush says, "We don't want to rush into the situation and have the program not be effective."

Made sure you got the money first though, didn't you?

Why didn't they just give us the $700b, and let us spend it?

94 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:50:29am

re: #54 Occasional Reader

Heh. I was just explaining to two unarmed liberal friends over lunch that if things got really bad, my plan was to show up with my Mossberg, take their stuff and their wives, and become a Mad Max-style warlord.

I am picking up a Mossberg Persuader this weekend. you likie?

95 notutopia  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:50:35am

Dow down 710 at 1430 EST.
Fox has an interesting article on it's healthblog by Dr. Keith that says the economic depression is synonymous with Clinical Depression. I had lunch with a friend who is a Clinical Psychologist and she said we need to bare monitoring the suicide rates. She is treating double the number of patients with depression in the last six months due to the current state of financial debacle of our economic environment.
YIKES!

96 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:50:41am

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

What the fuck? I haven't seen any desperation here. Most of the comments have been satirical and humorous. Geeeeshhhh.

97 3 wood  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:50:54am

re: #72 unrealizedviewpoint

Should I be out shopping for an applecart?

Well, I think my next career will involve wearing a paper hat and saying "would you like fries with that?"

98 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:51:14am

re: #91 reloadingisnotahobby

So?
Most of the B.S. ear mark(PORK)
Was in the form of tax relief.....
Just how many fortune 500 corp make wooden arrows?
Wool research?
I had no idea....Really , none!

I heard on Saturday that $100b was added, most of it tax breaks, like a tax deduction for R&D expenses.

99 acwgusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:51:15am

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

Why didn't they just give us the $700b, and let us spend it?

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

100 godfrey  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:51:47am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

I totally approve.

101 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:51:57am

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

Amen.

102 acwgusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:01am

re: #99 acwgusa

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

Actually, would 700b even buy a Polaris Missile these days?

103 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:17am

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

Good observation.

I can't up-ding, so I'm quoting.

104 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:23am

re: #87 Dirk Diggler

Half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA.

But which could still be sent up the food chain to be packaged by Freddie/Fannie, securitized and rated "good as money". Without a "quasi-governmental" entity there as the Top Sucker (or so everyone believed), people would have paid a lot more attention to risk.

105 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:28am

Damn speculators.

106 bosforus  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:28am

Financial Freefall?!
B...b...but...the bailout!

107 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:29am

Washington to taxpayers: PWNED!

108 alegrias  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:41am

re: #57 godfrey

The Eurozone is taking a beating.

The markets are wildly volatile. Bargains galore, if you have the nerve.

* * *
Opportunity is knocking: (somewhere)

"more than 4,000 attend D.C. auction of area foreclosures" of 450 foreclosed properties this weekend.

"...Real Estate Disposition Corp President Jim Corum said auctions were a good way to atempt to asuage the country's housing crisis.
...It's one of the easiest ways to sell real estate..."

dcexaminer.com of today

109 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:52am

re: #100 godfrey

The one at 1:45 is my favorite.

110 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:52:56am

I just got some junk mail. It's an offer from the US Government for a low interest rate Platinum Card. It's got a little holographic picture of George Bush and an 800 number that lets you use the card to purchase stamps from the USPS.

111 NC State of Mind  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:13am

This is incredible. Every three- four seconds I hit refresh brings a 40-50 point swing.

-753
-787
-742
-799
-763.

I've never seen fluctuations like that.

112 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:19am

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

Why didn't they just give us the $700b, and let us spend it?

You're not qualified to spend your tax dollars.

113 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:28am

re: #24 Ward Cleaver

No, just saw a snippet at lunchtine, on CNN.

'Bout a snippet is all I can take of CNN. Ugh, that network is painful to watch.

114 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:30am

re: #59 Adrenalyn

Putin has the oil money to cause this

Don't forget our dear friends, the House of Saud. They have a lot more ill-gotten gains than Putin, as great an oil-tick that he is.

115 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:31am

re: #86 Florida Lady

Is that for real? That's awesome!

116 USCMSNE  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:32am

re: #99 acwgusa

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

What's the waiting period on a Polaris? Seven days with background check? Same go for the Poseidons and Tridents?

117 alegrias  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:47am

re: #64 faraway

The man that may have paid for Obama's Harvard eduction, Dr. Khalid Al-Mansour, published a nice book in 1990 - Challenges of Spreading Islam in America and Other Essays


* * *
Thread worthy Charles Please!

118 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:55am

re: #99 acwgusa

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

I think if I had one, I might just skip the threatening step (and I live here). Perhaps it might be time for me to move, given my feelings about the area.

119 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:53:55am

re: #86 Florida Lady

About time!

120 WhatDoIKnow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:54:07am

re: #30 Florida Lady

But, but, but . . . the bailout was supposed to keep this from happening!

/

I don't even want to look at my 401k right now.

Patience, patience. As my dad has always said, the stock market is for the long-term, not for the faint of heart.

True, unless your retired or looking to retire.This is a major problem; the bailout does not fix the fundamental flaws with the current financial system. It is like taking a patient to the hospital with a deep knife wound and they keep putting gauze on the wound until the blood stops without closing the wound. The bleeding will continue until the wound is closed or until the patient dies.

121 TheBull271  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:54:09am

Down 800pts

122 godfrey  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:54:22am

You guys need to eat lunch at George's.

Motto: "Business is great. People are terrific. Life is wonderful."

123 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:54:35am

re: #94 Vergeltung

Approved!
Priced right and never fails!

124 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:54:52am

re: #94 Vergeltung

I am picking up a Mossberg Persuader this weekend. you likie?

IIRC the "Persuader" name refers to both the 500 and 590? I have the latter. It cost a little more, but is "milspec" because it was adopted by USMC, so I figured the extra was worth it. I can't say I've torture-tested it, but so far no complaints at all.

125 Adrenalyn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:54:54am

that 700 billion could have been put to good use


buy out the entire MSM
nuke Berkeley, SF and Hollywood

give 10,000 to each person that paid at least 5,000 in taxes last year

126 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:55:07am

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

I just got some junk mail. It's an offer from the US Government for a low interest rate Platinum Card. It's got a little holographic picture of George Bush and an 800 number that lets you use the card to purchase stamps from the USPS.

Why get just a credit card? Invest in Strategery , too!

127 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:55:29am

I am SOOO bummed I didn't get to the Palin rally here in Ft Myers. I had some clients coming from No Carolina today and I had to see them today, as this was their only availalbe day.

Over the weekend, they had to move the rally from the original arena that only seated 5,000 or so to one that seated 9,000.

The scuttlebutt now is that they cannot fit everyone in who has a ticket. They are having to turn away people.

128 rw in san diego  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:55:40am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Hey, isn't that one of Obama's economic advisors?

129 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:55:51am

re: #115 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Is that for real? That's awesome!


For real!

130 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:55:52am

It's all Chimpy McHitler's fault. The newspaper told me so.

131 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:00am

I got your October Surprise right here.

/I hate Alinsky.

132 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:02am

re: #98 Ward Cleaver

I guess that's the premise of my ?
How many companies could there be to merit
that kind of relief?

133 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:09am

re: #88 thedopefishlives

I know exactly how you feel. I want every single incumbent tossed out of the House and Senate right now. However, alegrias is quite right about not panicking - I'm seeing some comments that seem a bit hysterical to me.

134 Tigger2005  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:12am

I really don't know how to deal with this. I feel sick to my stomach, my heart is pounding, my hands are clammy, and I'm breaking out in a cold sweat.

I honestly don't know if I can deal with really, really, REALLY hard times. My life hasn't always been a bed of roses, but at least I wasn't trying to make a living during a depression.

135 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:16am

re: #99 acwgusa

I can hear the clammering now - "Can we have K-Y with that"?

136 Occasional Reader  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:18am

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

Why didn't they just give us the $700b, and let us spend it?

Because it's not just supposed to be money out the door. If the thing works, it's an investment that will be repaid.

Personally, I'd rather not just have the government acting as a mere recycler of my tax dollars, to the extent it can be avoided.

137 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:23am

re: #111 NC State of Mind

This is incredible. Every three- four seconds I hit refresh brings a 40-50 point swing.

-753
-787
-742
-799
-763.

I've never seen fluctuations like that.

Sounds like computerized trading to me.

138 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:23am

re: #127 Florida Lady

I am SOOO bummed I didn't get to the Palin rally here in Ft Myers. I had some clients coming from No Carolina today and I had to see them today, as this was their only availalbe day.

Over the weekend, they had to move the rally from the original arena that only seated 5,000 or so to one that seated 9,000.

The scuttlebutt now is that they cannot fit everyone in who has a ticket. They are having to turn away people.

we have 2 condos in Ft myers beach, hows the property market, im guessing not so good.

139 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:26am

OR,

But which could still be sent up the food chain to be packaged by Freddie/Fannie, securitized and rated "good as money". Without a "quasi-governmental" entity there as the Top Sucker (or so everyone believed), people would have paid a lot more attention to risk.

You're obviously a racist. Were you wearing a hood and robe when you typed that comment?

/

140 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:28am

Here's some good news! Apparently we need another 5 Trillion Dollars for it to really work.

141 Buck  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:38am

I hope McCain with watch and study this.

AND MEMORIZE IT.

It is an informative look at who fought to prevent the subprime mortgage meltdown with tighter regulations, and who did not.

This should be as popular as the stupid 'loose change' video was.

IMO We need to spread it around as much as possible. McCain should be mentioning it during every speech.

142 JimmyTheClaw  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:39am

just seen a 527 add mention the ole rev wrong

143 Adrenalyn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:48am

re: #114 FurryOldGuyJeans

Don't forget our dear friends, the House of Saud. They have a lot more ill-gotten gains than Putin, as great an oil-tick that he is.

and Iran sadly has money to burn also

the oil ticks (and Putin is now one)
know we have to use oil no matter how bad the economy

why o why did George Bush not use the food card
and raise the price of food to the oil ticks
when the price of oil went up

that 700 billion could also go a long way towards making us energy independent

how many freaking wind farms would that make in the plains ?

144 alegrias  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:56:57am

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Especially rushing it thru despite massive public outcry not to. Of course now that they have the money, Bush says, "We don't want to rush into the situation and have the program not be effective."

Made sure you got the money first though, didn't you?

* * * *
Yes--You have to buy insurance and have a plan and yet you STILL can have catastrophic events happen.

Having plans and insurance don't PREVENT bad things from happening--they're supposed to help deal with consequences.

145 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:57:00am

re: #134 Tigger2005

//////Don't worry. Obama will save us all.

146 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:57:57am

re: #145 arethusa

//////Don't worry. Obama will save us all.

I suppose the messiah will turn toxic paper into real assets.

147 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:01am

re: #86 Florida Lady

Outstanding. It's about time. He should bring it in the next debate also.

148 wolfie  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:12am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

The Exploding Banana Mask

A poetic image of the US Congress at work!

149 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:13am

I question the timing.

Palin brings up Ayers.

CNBC's Cramer says "its time to get out of the market"

Market tanks.

Media talks about the market instead of Ayers.

150 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:14am

re: #123 reloadingisnotahobby

Approved!
Priced right and never fails!

yeah, I thought it looked right. just need something for upstairs, and, it has a nice pistol grip option accessory as well. thanks for the feedback! :)

151 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:17am

re: #138 pegcity

we have 2 condos in Ft myers beach, hows the property market, im guessing not so good.


It's seems to be leveling out some.

Regardless, SW Florida is still a beautiful place to live.

152 tradewind  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:30am

This is more frightening than the Dow......

153 notutopia  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:35am

And the Bank runs will start when? People can transact by computerized transfers just as well as trade stocks!

154 acwgusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:41am

re: #143 Adrenalyn

Wind Farms? Screw Wind Farms! Put a Geothermal Tap over Congress and let their hot air power us forever!

155 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:48am

-600.06

156 Wendya  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:48am

re: #47 arethusa

/Well, but the taxes on wooden arrows were 39 cents, making a 30-cent arrow 69 cents...something had to be done.

Actually, that silly assed excise tax was hurting American manufactures who saw their sales drop 40% when people started buying imported arrows that were not taxed. I personally, don't view the end of an excise tax as a bad thing. It costs American companies sales and jobs.

157 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:58:59am
158 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:59:12am

re: #120 WhatDoIKnow

True, unless your retired or looking to retire.This is a major problem; the bailout does not fix the fundamental flaws with the current financial system. It is like taking a patient to the hospital with a deep knife wound and they keep putting gauze on the wound until the blood stops without closing the wound. The bleeding will continue until the wound is closed or until the patient dies.

If you're retired or looking to retire you shouldn't be in the markets anyway...especially pure equities.

159 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:59:45am

So, here's a few of my thoughts about the economic situation. We're witnessing a correction in the global markets, and bad news is all that anyone is getting. We're going to see more days like today, though it's possible that tomorrow will see a modest up day as folks scramble for good buys (everything gets hammered on days like today, regardless of whether it's warranted or not).

As for the political situation, the less the government does, the better - they made a bad situation worse by pushing for subprime lending and lax accounting rules at Freddie and Fannie. The bailout doesn't address underlying problems.

And the Europeans are actually in worse shape than the US.

160 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:59:48am

So, what markets are left that are 'free' from regulatory that we can invest in?

161 Cognito  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 11:59:57am

Jim Cramer is acting straight and somber and it's freaking me out.

162 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:09pm

Drudge is now blinking. Is that new?

163 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:09pm

re: #124 Occasional Reader

IIRC the "Persuader" name refers to both the 500 and 590? I have the latter. It cost a little more, but is "milspec" because it was adopted by USMC, so I figured the extra was worth it. I can't say I've torture-tested it, but so far no complaints at all.

that one I was looking at at Dick's Sporting Goods here in town was $399. sound like yours or the other one? (I had my girls with me buying all sorts of sports gear for their school sports this year, so, I had the time & concentration ability of a gnat on crack).

164 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:16pm

re: #99 acwgusa

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

And what, throw it at them?

165 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:27pm

re: #154 acwgusa

Wind Farms? Screw Wind Farms! Put a Geothermal Tap over Congress and let their hot air power us forever!

& it won't kill as near as many bats.

166 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:33pm

re: #151 Florida Lady

i like it down there. too hot in summer though

167 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:34pm

re: #134 Tigger2005

I really don't know how to deal with this. I feel sick to my stomach, my heart is pounding, my hands are clammy, and I'm breaking out in a cold sweat.

I honestly don't know if I can deal with really, really, REALLY hard times. My life hasn't always been a bed of roses, but at least I wasn't trying to make a living during a depression.

Yes, you can. Life during a depression is survivable, even if it is unpleasant. My hometown had a an economic depression in 1982-83. We had 26% unemployment, and the steel mills were closed. Somehow, we all got through it, and the town managed to grow over the next 25 years. I still remember people wandering the hallways of both malls with nothing else to do.

168 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:00:59pm

re: #140 Egfrow

Here's some good news! Apparently we need another 5 Trillion Dollars for it to really work.

Wait, lemme check my wallet...

169 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:01:27pm

Can we blink too?

170 tutor turtle  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:01:41pm

Some one correct me if I have this wrong, but didn't George Soros orchestrate banking disasters with the Bank of England and France in the 1980's? I know I have heard his stated goal was to wreak economic hardship on America; is it possible he is contributing to the market instability in some way? This scenario would fit right in to his long term "Socialism by crisis" plans. i.e. the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

171 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:01:42pm

re: #111 NC State of Mind

This is incredible. Every three- four seconds I hit refresh brings a 40-50 point swing.

-753
-787
-742
-799
-763.

I've never seen fluctuations like that.


I was working on a major trading desk during the '87 crash and have been in the financial biz through some large downdrafts (and updrafts). There's nothing new under the sun.

172 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:02:30pm

re: #162 faraway

Drudge is now blinking. Is that new?

What?

173 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:02:31pm

re: #170 tutor turtle

he shorted the pound, caused it to crash in value

174 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:02:35pm

Can we blink now?

175 Tigger2005  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:02:54pm

re: #167 Honorary Yooper

Yes, you can. Life during a depression is survivable, even if it is unpleasant. My hometown had a an economic depression in 1982-83. We had 26% unemployment, and the steel mills were closed. Somehow, we all got through it, and the town managed to grow over the next 25 years. I still remember people wandering the hallways of both malls with nothing else to do.

Yeah, but the whole world wasn't in a depression at the same time. It was localized.

176 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:02:56pm

re: #170 tutor turtle

Some one correct me if I have this wrong, but didn't George Soros orchestrate banking disasters with the Bank of England and France in the 1980's? I know I have heard his stated goal was to wreak economic hardship on America; is it possible he is contributing to the market instability in some way? This scenario would fit right in to his long term "Socialism by crisis" plans. i.e. the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

Man, you are feeding my paranoia.

177 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:06pm

re: #171 Uncle Joe

do u have a series 7?

178 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:06pm

re: #136 Occasional Reader

Because it's not just supposed to be money out the door. If the thing works, it's an investment that will be repaid.

Personally, I'd rather not just have the government acting as a mere recycler of my tax dollars, to the extent it can be avoided.

I know, I heard Rep. John Campbell explaining it last week on Hugh Hewitt's show. They're hoping to make money on the deal, in the long run.

179 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:08pm

I guess not. Hamsters won't allow blinking.

180 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:20pm

re: #173 pegcity

he shorted the pound, caused it to crash in value

Soros

181 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:22pm
Our current economic crisis is a good case in point. What was his actual record in the years before the great economic crisis of our lifetimes?

This crisis started in our housing market in the form of subprime loans that were pushed on people who could not afford them. Bad mortgages were being backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and it was only a matter of time before a contagion of unsustainable debt began to spread. This corruption was encouraged by Democrats in Congress, and abetted by Senator Obama.

Senator Obama has accused me of opposing regulation to avert this crisis. I guess he believes if a lie is big enough and repeated often enough it will be believed. But the truth is I was the one who called at the time for tighter restrictions on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that could have helped prevent this crisis from happening in the first place.
Senator Obama was silent on the regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and his Democratic allies in Congress opposed every effort to rein them in. As recently as September of last year he said that subprime loans had been, quote, “a good idea.” Well, Senator Obama, that “good idea” has now plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

To hear him talk now, you’d think he’d always opposed the dangerous practices at these institutions. But there is absolutely nothing in his record to suggest he did. He was surely familiar with the people who were creating this problem. The executives of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have advised him, and he has taken their money for his campaign. He has received more money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than any other senator in history, with the exception of the chairman of the committee overseeing them.

Did he ever talk to the executives at Fannie and Freddie about these reckless loans? Did he ever discuss with them the stronger oversight I proposed? If Senator Obama is such a champion of financial regulation, why didn’t he support these regulations that could have prevented this crisis in the first place? He won’t tell you, but you deserve an answer.

John McCain

[Link: hotair.com...]

182 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:24pm
183 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:27pm

re: #125 Adrenalyn

Does that count my property tax?re: #134 Tigger2005

I really don't know how to deal with this. I feel sick to my stomach, my heart is pounding, my hands are clammy, and I'm breaking out in a cold sweat.

I honestly don't know if I can deal with really, really, REALLY hard times. My life hasn't always been a bed of roses, but at least I wasn't trying to make a living during a depression.

Go home. Go to bed early.

Get up in the morning.

184 nikis-knight  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:30pm

Hmm, I feel in a very very very small way responsible. I took out a loan on my retirement fund, but not because of panic, just cause we're broke right now. (But no mortage, not that dumb.) Hope they didn't have to sell anything for that 3k...

185 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:41pm

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

What the fuck? I haven't seen any desperation here. Most of the comments have been satirical and humorous. Geeeeshhhh.

Dow down almost 700? That's it, call the suicide hotline! I'm jumping out the window (Of my ranch house).

186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:03:55pm

Al-Qaida: US economic crisis equals Muslim victory

In a half hour video message, California-native Adam Gadahn urged Pakistanis to unite against their government and U.S. forces, and taunted Americans over their economic crisis, relating it to their military interventions.

"The enemies of Islam are facing a crushing defeat, which is beginning to manifest itself in the expanding crisis their economy is experiencing," said Gadahn, in a clip of the message distributed by the SITE Intelligence Group, a Washington-based monitor of militant Web sites.

"A crisis whose primary cause, in addition to the abortive and unsustainable crusades they are waging in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq, is their turning their backs on Allah's revealed laws, which forbid interest-bearing transactions, exploitation, greed and injustice in all its forms."

187 wright1  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:12pm

This OT and seems small in light of the Financial Meltdown but I just recieved this:

Obama 'explains':



Hot on the heels of his explanation for why he no longer wears a flag pin,
Presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama was forced to explain why he
Doesn't fo llow protocol when the National Anthem is played.

According to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171,
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present
Except those in uniform are expected to stand at attention facing the flag
With the right hand over t he heart.

'As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking
Sides,' Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world t O whom the
American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a
War-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should
Be swapped for something less par ochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.'

188 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:21pm

i wonder if Soros has an underground Lair somewhere like doctor No

189 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:37pm

Crude closes at $87.81 a barrel.

190 wolfie  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:45pm

re: #170 tutor turtle

Could be Soros is playing a role in this.
It's right up his alley, no?

191 gop_patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:45pm

re: #159 lawhawk

And the Europeans are actually in worse shape than the US.

Damned socialists.
What do you want to bet they'll blame George Bush and America for their own socialist failings...

192 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:48pm

You know, if Congress had just waited a couple of weeks, we could have bought every US bank for $700 billion.

193 thebull271  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:51pm

re: #162 faraway

First time I have ever seen the blinking on Drudge

194 yma o hyd  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:04:55pm

re: #140 Egfrow

Here's some good news! Apparently we need another 5 Trillion Dollars for it to really work.

Excellent news.

Why not just ahnd over all your possessions, and all your earnings, and let B0 and his cronies dole out to you what they think you deserve?

After all - they're politicians, they know better than you!

/

195 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:01pm

re: #185 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Dow down almost 700? That's it, call the suicide hotline! I'm jumping out the window (Of my ranch house).

Careful, you could sprain an ankle doing that.

196 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:03pm

The answer is Sharia Financing.

197 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:10pm

re: #177 pegcity

do u have a series 7?

I did (along with a 9, 10, 24, 63 and a 65) but they expired after I went to work for a non-NASD money manager.

198 rawmuse  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:19pm

The Dems will play this one just like they did with Hoover, with likely the same outcome, I fear.

199 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:24pm

re: #175 Tigger2005

Yeah, but the whole world wasn't in a depression at the same time. It was localized.

Point is, it's survivable. As long as you have your life, your health, your family, and your friends, you are doing well, and can survive anything life or the market throws at you.

200 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:25pm

re: #181 Ben Hur

That's gonna leave a mark.

201 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:32pm

re: #188 pegcity

i wonder if Soros has an underground Lair somewhere like doctor No

Right here under Denver International Airport. Been there, nice place, great wine cellar.

202 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:34pm

re: #143 Adrenalyn

and Iran sadly has money to burn also

the oil ticks (and Putin is now one)
know we have to use oil no matter how bad the economy

why o why did George Bush not use the food card
and raise the price of food to the oil ticks
when the price of oil went up

that 700 billion could also go a long way towards making us energy independent

how many freaking wind farms would that make in the plains ?

I didn't mention Iran or Venezuela for the simple reason that neither country "likes" the US. We keep getting told how friendly the House of Saud is, and that rates a lot higher approbation in my book.

The thing is that all this yakkity-yak about alternative energy production is such a smoke and mirrors sleight of hand Ponzi scheme. Now that there is a general consensus to get off the teat of foreign oil the lawsuits against building those alternate energy production sites is getting "greened out" by environmental lawsuits or Congressional fiat. It was a "winner" when the idea was a fringe sect, but now that it has hit the main-stream it must be snuffed out.

And you actually think Congress could run an efficient energy alternative infrastructure, or let proven leaders in the field do so without interference? HA!

203 notutopia  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:36pm

Safe Investments? It's time to rototill the plot of garden you have available and get some Heritage Arugula seed if you want to eat like the elite do.
Commodities will hold their relative value. People have to eat.

204 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:43pm

re: #181 Ben Hur

Hopefully, McCain will throw Obama off his game tomorrow and have him on bended knee, begging for his teleprompter.

205 thebull271  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:46pm

So is oil prices dropping b/c the dollar is gaining value?

206 gop_patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:05:55pm

re: #170 tutor turtle

On days like this, I most certainly think of George Soros.

207 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:07pm

re: #162 faraway

Drudge is now blinking. Is that new?

yeah, simple .html tag. He's done it before.

208 J.S.  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:09pm

Is Obama on the sidelines laughing, cheering and clapping?

209 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:31pm

re: #189 Jetpilot1101

Crude closes at $87.81 a barrel.

So much for half-price Ford Super Duties.

210 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:32pm

re: #193 thebull271

First time I have ever seen the blinking on Drudge

What blinking? I have Drudge in another tab and there is nothing blinking on his page.

211 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:38pm

re: #200 Ward Cleaver

That's gonna leave a mark.


If anybody gets the whole speech without the MSM filter.

Which only we will.

212 2SoonOld2LateSmart  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:38pm

Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

/make it stop

213 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:53pm

re: #205 thebull271

People with less money use less fuel. therefor less demand.

214 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:06:53pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I said this a week ago... This type of economic crisis is EXACTLY what Al Qaeda has always been looking for...

215 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:15pm

re: #197 Uncle Joe

thats alot of licenses, im just getting into the game now in canada, great timing.

we don't have anything as fancy as your system, our licensing is done by a private company who could care less about standards, you can basically buy a license, you can get all the test questions for 120 bucks in a test help pack.

216 pokeefe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:17pm

What goes up must come down.

This has been due for a while, and isn't such a bad thing as it's made out to be.

217 LizardoidCaptain  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:21pm

Everybody invest in Hydronics and Greenhouses. Get your food growing skills up to speed. Gardening apparell will be all the new rage.

218 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:27pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

Right here under Denver International Airport. Been there, nice place, great wine cellar.

"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to DIE."

219 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:33pm

re: #204 Florida Lady

Hopefully, McCain will throw Obama off his game tomorrow and have him on bended knee, begging for his teleprompter.

Can I have some of what you're on?

220 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:35pm

re: #209 Ward Cleaver

So much for half-price Ford Super Duties.

250 dollar oil my ass

221 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:42pm

There is a possible silver lining here. The poor economy usually helps the party out of power. However, with this much fear in the air and blood in the streets, will America elect an inexperienced far-left tax-raising gun-grabbing collectivist?

I certainly hope not.

222 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:07:52pm

Hello idiots, you have been trying to get something that isn't there;

We cannot all live on the efforts of others and do nothing ourselves;

which is what trying to make a buck trading in the market means;

so, reality check, now go do something actually productive.

I have spoken.

223 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:17pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

Right here under Denver International Airport. Been there, nice place, great wine cellar.

I thought that was Charles's place, under DIA. Soros's should be under Washington-Dulles.

224 nikis-knight  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:19pm

re: #187 wright1

parody, right?

225 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:20pm

Obama introduces New Deal to save America.

Nationalize health insurance.

Put Bush and Cheney in jail.

All minorities will be given a new house and a new Caddy, plus $5,000 in spending money.

Non-minorities will be placed in work camps.

/

226 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:29pm

re: #218 Ward Cleaver

"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to DIE."

Nope, I've never seen a Bond movie, not in my 55 years.

227 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:38pm

re: #222 Ojoe

Hello idiots, you have been trying to get something that isn't there;

We cannot all live on the efforts of others and do nothing ourselves;

which is what trying to make a buck trading in the market means;

so, reality check, now go do something actually productive.

I have spoken.

. . . Like an idiot

228 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:39pm

re: #197 Uncle Joe

I did (along with a 9, 10, 24, 63 and a 65) but they expired after I went to work for a non-NASD money manager.

I have my 7,63 and 65 and Insurance license...I am considering getting the 31 and maybe even my LRPC.

229 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:44pm

re: #196 Ben Hur

The answer is Sharia Financing.

Lots of places I see in Queens with Sharia Financing information in front of their homes.

230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:45pm

re: #217 LizardoidCaptain

Everybody invest in Hydronics and Greenhouses. Get your food growing skills up to speed. Gardening apparell will be all the new rage.

Keep stockpiling ammo and watch for your neighbors who are gardening. I aint going hungry.

/

231 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:56pm

re: #222 Ojoe

what so you think there's something wrong with a 90 grand a year employee making a 1.5 million dollar bonus?

232 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:08:58pm

re: #205 thebull271

So is oil prices dropping b/c the dollar is gaining value?

I think oil is dropping b/c there is a nasty recession on the horizon, as indicated by stock prices over the past several weeks (not to mention today), and also b/c the dollar is firming

233 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:08pm

re: #222 Ojoe

Hello idiots, you have been trying to get something that isn't there;

We cannot all live on the efforts of others and do nothing ourselves;

which is what trying to make a buck trading in the market means;

so, reality check, now go do something actually productive.

I have spoken.

Stupid is as stupid does.

234 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:11pm

re: #219 unreconstructed rebel

Can I have some of what you're on?


Okay, I'll bite. Why did you say that?

235 wright1  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:20pm

re: #224 nikis-knight

parody, right?

Not sure - I got it from my Mother-in-law who said it was authentic

236 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:32pm

re: #198 rawmuse

The Dems will play this one just like they did with Hoover, with likely the same outcome, I fear.

Yes, and people forget that most of FDR's New Deal prolonged the Great Depression, did nothing to end it, and did precious little to alleviate the suffering from it. Only a World War which gave our manufacturing a massive shot in the arm turned our economy around. Nowadays we have no manufacturing. We make little, export even less, and depend on other countries for virtually everyhting we consume (including food). This could be far worse than the Great Depression. I hope not, of course.

237 calcajun  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:48pm

My broker had this glazed look on his face before he threw himself out the window.

C'mon, puns and tom swifties make great ice breakers at an End of the World Party!

I have a theory--and correct me if I am wrong--but this week's meltdown is due to the Bill signed into law on Friday. The overseas markets--where a lot of our own mortgage-backed securities are traded--saw the bail-out pass and then freaked because they had proof that their confidence in those same securities were misplaced--hence the sell-off.

238 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:49pm

re: #223 Honorary Yooper

I thought that was Charles's place, under DIA. Soros's should be under Washington-Dulles.

Shhssshhhh. I was trying to set them off on a wild goose chase. Now you gave it all away. Bad Intelliegence, Bad.

239 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:49pm

re: #217 LizardoidCaptain

Everybody invest in Hydronics and Greenhouses. Get your food growing skills up to speed. Gardening apparell will be all the new rage.


Start growing weed.

240 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:51pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Keep stockpiling ammo and watch for your neighbors who are gardening. I aint going hungry.

/

I'm set. I woke up the other day to find two huge deer grazing on my garden. When the time comes . . .

241 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:54pm

re: #211 Ben Hur

If anybody gets the whole speech without the MSM filter.

Which only we will.

McCain needs to hammer that in the debate, with specifics (what bills McCain sponsored or supported).

242 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:57pm

re: #220 pegcity

250 dollar oil my ass

And my prediction comes true. Oil under $100/bbl before the end of the year. Take that, Lehman Bros, take that, Goldman Sachs!

/Oh, wait, they're out of business or in deep shit.

243 faraway  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:09:59pm

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

What blinking? I have Drudge in another tab and there is nothing blinking on his page.

First line, "Dow plunges" ..

244 JHW  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:10:09pm

re: #167 Honorary Yooper

Great comment, there are several areas here in the USA that had those kinds of unemployment and plant closures and have not recovered yet, 20 years later. I live in one of them, housing prices stayed roughly unchanged for years or even decades, but we soldiered on and gradually, slowly, businesses formed and things eventually improved. I'm a bit angry though that a once every 5 years property tax reassessment valued housing at the unrealistic recent highs and raised taxes accordingly. Seems like local and state government will come out smelling like a rose while everyone struggles to pay taxes on un-resalable housing.

245 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:10:31pm

Ow. Lost 20% today.

246 Duane  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:10:45pm

re: #5 Occasional Reader

racist!
/sarcasm

247 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:10:51pm

re: #181 Ben Hur

Woot!

That's the best message he's put out. Absolutely factual, and it asks all the right questions.

I'd like to see more about Ayers, but the economy is all anyone's going to ask about for the next week, anyway. So, good for McCain!

248 LizardoidCaptain  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:10:55pm

Well, it's now below 800 because of Politicaly induced panicing.

249 wolfie  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:00pm

re: #175 Tigger2005

Yeah, but the whole world wasn't in a depression at the same time. It was localized.

Tigger, don't worry about what may or may not happen.
One day at a time.
You have a lot of inner strength, I think, which means you'll be okay. Really.

250 tradewind  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:06pm

re: #187 wright1

Is that for real?
Seriously?

If it's true, that oughta be the Mother of All Swiftboats.
And not a nanosecond too soon.

251 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:11pm

re: #239 Ben Hur

Start growing weed.

Takes too much electricity. Grow shrooms instead.

252 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:17pm

re: #239 Ben Hur

Start growing weed.

Nah, then Obama will be hanging around, wanting to bum some.

253 legalpad  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:18pm

re: #181 Ben Hur

Now, if he would say this sort of thing in the debate - repeatedly, and repeatedly at every opportunity.

254 LizardoidCaptain  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:25pm

re: #239 Ben Hur

Start growing weed.

That just makes you more hungry.

255 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:29pm

re: #215 pegcity

In a way you're better off if you're just starting because, in the midst of all this financial wreckage, there are going to be a lot of opportunities there might not have been otherwise. Also, experience can be a big help but it can also be baggage as far as limiting the types of jobs you can get and giving a salary level that scares off employers. How's that for looking on the bright side? :-)

256 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:39pm

re: #227 Creeping Eruption

Not at all.

This is an artificial crisis.

Look out the window, do you see anything real vanishing?

If you put siding on a house, and paint it, do the boards disappear and reappear according to the numbers of the market?

This world is foolishness on stilts.

257 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:41pm

re: #170 tutor turtle

Some one correct me if I have this wrong, but didn't George Soros orchestrate banking disasters with the Bank of England and France in the 1980's? I know I have heard his stated goal was to wreak economic hardship on America; is it possible he is contributing to the market instability in some way? This scenario would fit right in to his long term "Socialism by crisis" plans. i.e. the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

258 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:42pm

OT:

Well, maybe the gloves are now off in the McCain camp. I saw a few minutes ago on Seattle area Comcast cable FNC (channel 48) an advert highlighting the Trifecta of Obama Associates:

Rezko, Ayers, and Wright.

It was a quick over-view, but it certainly did get to the meat on the bone about who the O finds acceptable to be pals with.

I didn't notice if the advert was approved by McCain and put out by the McCain campaign, but it sure should have been.

259 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:52pm

re: #231 pegcity

what so you think there's something wrong with a 90 grand a year employee making a 1.5 million dollar bonus?

Wow... And here I thought I was doing OK making 90K a year with a paltry 8K bonus...

260 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:57pm

re: #234 Florida Lady

In fact, I am hoping with you. But, at the moment, I am too stunned to share in you optimism. Hence the "I want some too"

261 avspatti  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:11:57pm

re: #19 tfc3rid

Oh well, I'm not retiring for 45 years anyway and a large portion of my 401K is in a VERY conservative savings-type account, with only about 25% in stocks... The portion in stocks has dropped 5K in a week...

Well, bully for you. I am 70 and still teaching. By the way things are going, I will never be able to retire. Thank the Lord nothing is wrong with me YET, but it is just a matter of time. Delightful, eh?

262 Dianna  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:12:04pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yet another reason to calm down, isn't it?

263 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:12:05pm

re: #251 Lizard by the Bay

Takes too much cow shit

264 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:12:08pm

re: #189 Jetpilot1101

Crude closes at $87.81 a barrel.

Just filled up yesterday, $2.89/gallon.

265 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:12:22pm

re: #243 faraway

First line, "Dow plunges" ..

Not blinking on my page. And that's strange, I looked at his page source and he does have the "blink" tag in the code. I wonder if one of my setting in IE7 overrides that tag?

266 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:12:31pm

Cramer is an idiot. CNBC wanted this to happen so Obama would be elected.

267 J.S.  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:12:34pm

re: #170 tutor turtle

Interesting scenario -- but, on the face of it, too conspiratorial...would need evidence to support the claim...(and/or actual investigative journalists, which appear to have all gone missing --instead we get CNN Obamatons eagerlly repeating their endless lies, along with campaigning ceaseless for Obama (are CNN's "journalists/entertainers" on Obama's payroll?), and along with CNNs neverending clips of Saturday Night Live -- that's what constitutes "news" from organizations such as CNN...)

268 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:00pm

re: #161 Cognito

Nonsense. Cramer is pushing a hysterical position of five years. I know that past history is no indicator of future performance, but the 1987 crash saw a recovery within 2 years from the 1987 high of 2,722. Calendar year 1987 was actually a positive year - the Dow was up from January.

Much of what is driving the market is uncertainty. No one knows values of credit, credit is tight, and company assets and business is harmed because of the tightness in the markets.

Does this mean an extreme position of taking everything out for 5 years? Hardly.

269 LizardoidCaptain  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:14pm

When does the Auto Industry bailout start?

270 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:18pm

re: #251 Lizard by the Bay

Takes too much electricity. Grow shrooms instead.

Takes too much shit.

271 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:24pm

re: #263 Creeping Eruption

Takes too much cow shit

Is cow shit at a premium where you live, or something?

272 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:27pm

re: #259 tfc3rid

my friend at RBC in canada has seen it a couple times, derivatives traders selling energy futures.

273 IngisKahn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:32pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

Not blinking on my page. And that's strange, I looked at his page source and he does have the "blink" tag in the code. I wonder if one of my setting in IE7 overrides that tag?

Most browsers ignore the blink tags since they were abused so much in the early days of the web.

274 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:57pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Al-Qaida: US economic crisis equals Muslim victory

Funny thing is that the global economic crisis is probably hitting the Arab sovereign wealth funds harder than anyone. This might have the perverse impact of starving Al Queada for resources.

275 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:13:59pm

re: #270 Ben Hur

Takes too much shit.

That's why you need a cow in the yard.

276 doppelganglander  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:13pm

re: #127 Florida Lady

I am SOOO bummed I didn't get to the Palin rally here in Ft Myers. I had some clients coming from No Carolina today and I had to see them today, as this was their only availalbe day.

Over the weekend, they had to move the rally from the original arena that only seated 5,000 or so to one that seated 9,000.

The scuttlebutt now is that they cannot fit everyone in who has a ticket. They are having to turn away people.

That's outstanding news about the size of the rally, sad that you couldn't make it. I wish Georgia was in play so I might get a chance to see her.

277 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:18pm

re: #263 Creeping Eruption

Takes too much cow shit


GMTA

278 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:23pm

re: #264 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Just filled up yesterday, $2.89/gallon.

Where's that? Here in Dallas the cheapest I've seen lately is $3.39.

279 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:29pm

re: #261 avspatti

Well, bully for you. I am 70 and still teaching. By the way things are going, I will never be able to retire. Thank the Lord nothing is wrong with me YET, but it is just a matter of time. Delightful, eh?

Not to worry, youl'll have socialized medicine to help you out duyring the most critical years of your life!

280 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:39pm
281 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:48pm

You know, it doesn't have to come from a cow....

(ewwwwww, organic farming)

282 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:14:49pm
283 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:17pm

re: #274 DeafDog

Funny thing is that the global economic crisis is probably hitting the Arab sovereign wealth funds harder than anyone. This might have the perverse impact of starving Al Queada for resources.

yes 83 dollar oil is a huge victory against the infidels

just like a lack of money to expand operations in the middle east.

and a lack of lending to their crapistans

284 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:21pm

re: #280 buzzsawmonkey

What about those of us who remain uncowed?

Good luck!

285 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:22pm

re: #270 Ben Hur

Takes too much shit.

Perhaps we can start farming whippets.

286 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:25pm

re: #273 IngisKahn

Most browsers ignore the blink tags since they were abused so much in the early days of the web.

Firefox 2 doesn't ignore it, as much as I wish it would.

287 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:25pm

re: #275 unreconstructed rebel

That's why you need a cow in the yard.

I'd have to kill it for eatin' all my weed.

288 Adrenalyn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:30pm

re: #183 Dianna

Hi Dianna !

I am at home.
Think I will go fishing.
Maybe I'll teach the kids how to put food on the table the old fashioned way.

289 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:43pm

re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans

And I hear the MSM news on the radio, and they are saying the campaign is turning "nasty."

That is such a loaded word that has NOTHING to do with the tone of the debate. It's that double talk crap. These issues are valid points, there is nothing NASTY about discussing them.

They don't want thier wittle feewlings hurt.

290 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:15:51pm

DOW now down 552. Traders decided things had gone too far, at least for the moment, heh.

291 Nancy  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:01pm

re: #134 Tigger2005

Hang in there.

While we may be in a recession for awhile and things could get worse before better --it's not even close to the "great depression" that occurred in the 1920's and 30's.

292 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:03pm

re: #239 Ben Hur

Start growing weed.

Then buy stock in Frito Lay.
/

293 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:15pm

re: #286 FurryOldGuyJeans

Firefox 2 doesn't ignore it, as much as I wish it would.

Go to Firefox 3.0.3.

294 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:28pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Are you saying ...steal vegies from the nieghbors?
That'll get ya *Wacked!
LOL
Just put a small house on a 1/2 acre here in Utah...
Big garden spot in the back!
Yup next spring it'll be ready to go!

295 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:30pm

I can see the ObamaTons sitting around high fiving each other because this type of econominc news is exaclty what they wanted...

296 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:32pm
297 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:34pm

re: #290 Meremortal

DOW now down 552. Traders decided things had gone too far, at least for the moment, heh.

Bargain hunters at work.

298 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:16:44pm

re: #287 Ben Hur

I'd have to kill it for eatin' all my weed.

Oh! Then you don't need the shrooms. ;-)

299 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:17:02pm

re: #260 unreconstructed rebel

In fact, I am hoping with you. But, at the moment, I am too stunned to share in you optimism. Hence the "I want some too"


McCain is capable of doing that . . . in a figurative way. He can be very mean. And Obama is a nancy-boy underneath that slick fascade.

If McCain can hit the right points, Obama will start his "hominah, hominah" and "uhs." And he will look foolish.

/here's hopin' with ya

300 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:17:14pm

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

Where's that? Here in Dallas the cheapest I've seen lately is $3.39.

Springfield, MO, Ward.

301 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:17:16pm
302 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:17:46pm

re: #285 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LOL

303 wright1  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:17:48pm

re: #250 tradewind

Is that for real?
Seriously?

If it's true, that oughta be the Mother of All Swiftboats.
And not a nanosecond too soon.


Like I said, I got in an email - have not heard back whether the source is credible - anyone else know I would appreciate it.

304 WhatDoIKnow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:17:52pm

re: #120 WhatDoIKnow

True, unless your retired or looking to retire.This is a major problem; the bailout does not fix the fundamental flaws with the current financial system. It is like taking a patient to the hospital with a deep knife wound and they keep putting gauze on the wound until the blood stops without closing the wound. The bleeding will continue until the wound is closed or until the patient dies.


re: #158 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

If you're retired or looking to retire you shouldn't be in the markets anyway...especially pure equities.

I agree that investing in pure equities is risky and more so the older you get, but the return's on the real estate, interest rate driven instrument’s does not give a lot investment options. What safe investments might you suggest?

305 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:05pm

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

306 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:19pm

re: #289 Walter L. Newton

And I hear the MSM news on the radio, and they are saying the campaign is turning "nasty."

That is such a loaded word that has NOTHING to do with the tone of the debate. It's that double talk crap. These issues are valid points, there is nothing NASTY about discussing them.

They don't want thier wittle feewlings hurt.

The thing I find extremely ironic is that the general tenor of the O campaign hasn't changed much, having been nasty nearly from the get-go during the primary/caucus season, and so the MSM can conveniently ignore all the negativity since it is business as usual instead of a change.

307 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:25pm

re: #297 Lizard by the Bay

Bargain hunters at work.

This is not the capitulation I thought I knew.

308 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:25pm

re: #264 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Just filled up yesterday, $2.89/gallon.

The last time I looked, it was 3.40 here in Dallas. What state do you live in?

309 doppelganglander  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:50pm

re: #187 wright1

That sounds fake to me.

310 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:52pm

re: #294 reloadingisnotahobby

Are you saying ...steal vegies from the nieghbors?
That'll get ya *Wacked!
LOL
Just put a small house on a 1/2 acre here in Utah...
Big garden spot in the back!
Yup next spring it'll be ready to go!

Nope. I'll just provide a protection service, offering to defend their yummy veggies from various unsavory sorts in return for some of them. All sorts of unforseen events could ravage their unprotected crops.

Must be the Italian side of me.

311 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:53pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

Fer real? Or are you just makin' trouble?

312 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:18:54pm

re: #287 Ben Hur

I'd have to kill it for eatin' all my weed.

Hydro - keeps it indoors

313 cblesz  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:13pm

Goodbye John McCain. Election over. It is all your fault. Obama is THE ONE to fix this.

314 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:15pm

re: #251 Lizard by the Bay

Ya need a cave for that - and shit. Plenty of shit to grow the good shit.

315 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:16pm

re: #309 doppelganglander

That sounds fake to me.


Same here.

316 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:19pm

re: #244 JHW

Yep, there are still places out there that never recovered from the Carter years. Fortunately, the one I live in did. We went from 26% unemployment in 1982-83 to 6% unemployment in 2006. We also became the fastest growing city in the state at one point, and one of the fastest growing (over 100,000) in the US in the early 2000s.

317 wright1  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:25pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

Because her students did not follow her instructions to get on their prayer rugs.

318 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:25pm

re: #264 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

2.89?
I'm still paying 3.65!
Now I'm really PISSED!

319 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:28pm
320 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:32pm

re: #288 Adrenalyn


Think I will go fishing.
Maybe I'll teach the kids how to put food on the table the old fashioned way.

Maybe Palin could hold classes on field-dressing moose?

321 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:43pm

re: #293 Ward Cleaver

Go to Firefox 3.0.3.

Nope, nope, nope, nope. I wouldn't even if I could. I run Win98SE and I am staying that way until this and my other PCs become paperweights.

322 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:51pm

re: #303 wright1

Like I said, I got in an email - have not heard back whether the source is credible - anyone else know I would appreciate it.

I read that, it's satire, no way it is credible. "Teach the World to Sing?" It's a joke.

323 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:19:58pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

For organizing the Obamatons or for letting the video out?

324 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:12pm

re: #256 Ojoe

real value is vanishing though.

325 JustMyView  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:14pm

Take your mind off the Dow. Start planning your Halloween costume now. Here's an idea for a mask. Works for either Repubs or Dems.

326 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:17pm

re: #311 unreconstructed rebel

For real.

327 Ben Hur  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:22pm

BRB

328 Wendya  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:33pm

re: #124 Occasional Reader

IIRC the "Persuader" name refers to both the 500 and 590? I have the latter. It cost a little more, but is "milspec" because it was adopted by USMC, so I figured the extra was worth it. I can't say I've torture-tested it, but so far no complaints at all.

I believe the 500 was originally milspec compliant and the 590-A1 is today.

I have the 500 and the 590-A1 and they're both excellent shotguns.

329 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:37pm

re: #308 DeafDog

The last time I looked, it was 3.40 here in Dallas. What state do you live in?

Actually, it was Mt. Vernon, MO., about 30 miles from Springfield.

330 yma o hyd  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:20:51pm

re: #242 Honorary Yooper

And my prediction comes true. Oil under $100/bbl before the end of the year. Take that, Lehman Bros, take that, Goldman Sachs!

/Oh, wait, they're out of business or in deep shit.

Yeah - but not him:
"The head of failed US investment bank Lehman Brothers has told Congress that he took home about $300m in compensation over the past eight years."

/Why didn't my parents tell me to become a banker ...

331 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:08pm

re: #312 Creeping Eruption

Hydro - keeps it indoors

Grow lights: keeps it expensive; attracts unwanted attention.

332 itellu3times  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:13pm

This ain't a free-fall, it's managed, at best. I'd expect the current recovery (550) to continue through the close.

333 J.S.  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:15pm

re: #306 FurryOldGuyJeans

The MSM only become outraged and start screaming about "nastiness" when the truth comes out about Obama...then throw fits...it's to be expected when I'm guessing their paychecks are linked to spreading the good news of the ObamaMessiah.

334 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:25pm

re: #311 unreconstructed rebel

Didn't get suspended for making it, just for putting it on the web. Right result for the wrong reason.

335 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:30pm

re: #326 Cap'n DOC

For real.

Linky?

336 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:32pm

re: #331 Lizard by the Bay

Grow lights: keeps it expensive; attracts unwanted attention.

Hey as long as we are talking green - use solar.

337 wright1  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:36pm

re: #322 Walter L. Newton

I tend to agree but in the new age of Obama, children are singing and marching and light springs out of the top of BHO's head so I am losing my bearings...

338 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:21:41pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.


Really?

339 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:05pm

re: #333 J.S.

The MSM only become outraged and start screaming about "nastiness" when the truth comes out about Obama...then throw fits...it's to be expected when I'm guessing their paychecks are linked to spreading the good news of the ObamaMessiah.

So now they are getting Manna from the O, eh?

340 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:13pm

re: #322 Walter L. Newton

I read that, it's satire, no way it is credible. "Teach the World to Sing?" It's a joke.

Correct, Walter.

341 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:29pm

re: #296 ploome hineni

important OT

what Obama ,Ayers connection?

Nov. 6, 1997


I would say, they had an agenda in common

Good find.

342 charles_martel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:31pm

I didn't want to retire anyway....

343 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:33pm

re: #278 Ward Cleaver

Where's that? Here in Dallas the cheapest I've seen lately is $3.39.

I got $3.18 the other day.

344 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:47pm

re: #228 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Hey, go for it. Six months or a year from now everybody will have forgotten about the current "we're all gonna die!" panic and the world will be rolling along. And you'll be in better shape with additional professional credentials.

345 arethusa  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:22:51pm
346 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:22pm

re: #335 unreconstructed rebel

Will this do?

347 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:25pm

re: #329 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Actually, it was Mt. Vernon, MO., about 30 miles from Springfield.

You swing states get all the good stuff.

348 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:30pm

Dow now down 497.

349 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:36pm

$3.59 is the cheapest around here, and we've got half the refineries. Something's just plain wrong with that.

350 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:36pm

re: #340 Meremortal

Correct, Walter.

Now, I would have bought it if the author said BO wanted to use "It's a Small Small World!"

351 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:40pm

re: #300 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Springfield, MO, Ward.

Wow. Usually OKC and Tulsa's prices are about the cheapest, at least driving between here and St. Louis (on I-44).

352 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:43pm

The DOW is rallying something fierce

-486

353 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:52pm

re: #331 Lizard by the Bay

Grow lights: keeps it expensive; attracts unwanted attention.

Pull a Johny THC. Take a nature walk thru and scatter seeds, come back later and harvest. Stories in CA all the time about Forestry Service guys finding whole fields in National Parks and other areas.

354 Archimedes  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:23:57pm

re: #13 Charles

Gold up $36 an ounce.

Gold is the one thing that maintains value.

355 Kenneth  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:13pm
356 Nancy  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:13pm

re: #240 Creeping Eruption

heh --heh......me too........only I have 3-4 who regularly graze just in the yard.

I am on a lake and it takes less skill to fish.

357 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:21pm

re: #333 J.S.

The MSM only become outraged and start screaming about "nastiness" when the truth comes out about Obama...then throw fits...it's to be expected when I'm guessing their paychecks are linked to spreading the good news of the ObamaMessiah.


They sure didn't seem to care when Palin was getting pilloried

358 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:25pm

re: #341 MandyManners

Most excellent find, Mandy.

359 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:28pm

re: #349 Lizard by the Bay

$3.59 is the cheapest around here, and we've got half the refineries. Something's just plain wrong with that.

No kidding. I saw $3.49 this a.m. and I am a thousand miles from the closest refinery (I think).

360 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:36pm

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

Now, I would have bought it if the author said BO wanted to use "It's a Small Small World!"

*SNORT!*

361 alegrias  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:43pm

re: #199 Honorary Yooper

Point is, it's survivable. As long as you have your life, your health, your family, and your friends, you are doing well, and can survive anything life or the market throws at you.

* * *
Thank you, Honorary for being a can-do lizard.

Evolution is hard, man! Change is hard. We shall overcome.

We have brains and higher order thinking skills. Let's use them, lizard nation.

Little Green footballs lizards can make green dough to survive.

362 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:50pm

re: #318 reloadingisnotahobby

2.89?
I'm still paying 3.65!
Now I'm really PISSED!

Well, I could've filled up yesterday for $3.73 in town, bus I chose to go out 8 miles away from my usual gas-filling station to get gas for $3.51. Now, according to GasBuddy, it's down to $3.59 in town.

363 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:24:56pm

re: #357 DeafDog

They sure didn't seem to care when Palin was getting pilloried

Kinda hard to care when they were at the front lines leading the charge in the attacks.

364 reloadingisnotahobby  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:00pm

re: #349 Lizard by the Bay
Well if your in Cal... it's the taxes!

365 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:07pm

re: #353 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pull a Johny THC. Take a nature walk thru and scatter seeds, come back later and harvest. Stories in CA all the time about Forestry Service guys finding whole fields in National Parks and other areas.

Not to mention booby traps (Mendocino Co., Calif.)

366 LizardoidCaptain  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:12pm

McCain is squandering a great opportunity. If he would simply protect the Principles of Free Market Capitalism, he would be assured the presidencay. Most of his policies are in agreement with his opponets by blaming Mr Wall Street and Business Greed. Bussiness corruption usually has government involvement and creates monopolistic practices via Crony Capitalism. Citibank and Chase are gaining tremendous power now. Chase is even suing Wells Fargo to get control of Wachovia. There is no moral difference between Putin and Chavez taking personal contol of Oil Companies or the Government protecting and bailing out banks which benefited from Goverment Regulatory lending practices. They were all undermined by government power.

367 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:14pm

re: #352 Dirk Diggler

The DOW is rallying something fierce

-486

Everyone loves a bargain.

368 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:19pm

re: #346 Cap'n DOC


Will this do?

Cool!

So, I wonder what happened to the song fest with the kids in blue & the flutist?

369 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:24pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

Ha ha! Seriously?

370 maddogg  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:25:35pm

I pulled all of my money out of the market last month, so I didn't lose anything. But I admit, I am very worried about what will happen next.

371 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:26:07pm

re: #360 Meremortal

*SNORT!*

Ah, is "snort" good, bad or what?

372 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:26:26pm

re: #353 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pull a Johny THC. Take a nature walk thru and scatter seeds, come back later and harvest. Stories in CA all the time about Forestry Service guys finding whole fields in National Parks and other areas.

Great, then I have to worry about wild deer munching my smoke. There's just no good way to grow for personal use that I've come up with. You either go huge (and run serious risk) or forget it.

373 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:26:31pm

re: #296 ploome hineni

Sorry. Credit where credit is due. I dinged you up and so I'm making a course correction here. I thought it was Mandy's.

374 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:26:43pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

You mean the charter school in KC?

375 Osama Bin Porkchop  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:26:43pm

One of these days, I'd like to see George Soros in handcuffs and a jumpsuit......

He's just one more criminal associated with the Obama-messiah....

376 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:26:56pm

re: #319 buzzsawmonkey

"Because of Obama, I am inspired to be the first teacher suspended by my local school board!"

LOL!

377 gop_patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:27:28pm

re: #338 DeafDog

Really?

Yep,
Middle School Teacher Suspended for 'Obama Frat' Spat

from the article:

Students at the school have 30-minute group sessions four times a week during which they are supposed to work on reading and writing. Once a week they are allowed to have "activities," McGautha said. There are 12 groups at the public charter school.

The Junior Fraternity students studied Obama's economic plan with the teacher, and the superintendent did not know whether the teacher or the students scripted the routine. The group should have also studied John McCain's economic plan, the superintendent said.

378 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:27:41pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

You have a linkie for that, please?

I would suspect they are suspended pending a "bump up" to district management, maybe even state management.

379 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:03pm

re: #372 Lizard by the Bay

Yup. Deer love the stuff.

380 Nancy  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:10pm

re: #308 DeafDog

Michigan here --last week when I filled up --gas was $3.54 gal. But that was down 20 cents from where it had been during the summer.

381 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:11pm

re: #371 Walter L. Newton

Ah, is "snort" good, bad or what?

Not to worry, it was a good snort. Cleaning keyboard now.

382 MandyManners  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:19pm

re: #358 Cap'n DOC

Most excellent find, Mandy.

Ploome found it in No. 296.

383 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:22pm

re: #343 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

I got $3.18 the other day.

$3.99 for premium here near NY City.

384 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:24pm

re: #351 Ward Cleaver

Wow. Usually OKC and Tulsa's prices are about the cheapest, at least driving between here and St. Louis (on I-44).

I'm actually halfway between Joplin and Springfield, just off of I-44.

385 sparrowlake  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:28:58pm

Ya think some of these investment bankers and brokers are wearing body armor lately?

386 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:29:07pm

re: #382 MandyManners

Yup. I saw it. Corrected myself. Sorry. Can't read real well, ya see...

387 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:29:38pm

re: #381 Meremortal

Not to worry, it was a good snort. Cleaning keyboard now.

Okay, now I understand. You were explaining a physical reaction to a comical statement I made. Gosh, I'm dense sometimes.

388 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:29:46pm

re: #385 sparrowlake

Ya think some of these investment bankers and brokers are wearing body armor lately?

They may want to include a leather collar.

389 wolfie  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:29:51pm

I think I'll go down to the local bakery and buy a pie.
Pecan pie.
Yup.

390 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:29:57pm

re: #377 gop_patriot

From your link:

The Junior Fraternity students studied Obama's economic plan with the teacher, and the superintendent did not know whether the teacher or the students scripted the routine. The group should have also studied John McCain's economic plan, the superintendent said.

It's just as well with me that they didn't compose a Hitler Jugend style McCain song as well, as though such a thing is even within the realm of possibility.

391 DeafDog  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:02pm

re: #377 gop_patriot

Same premise as that Jack Black movie, "School of Rock."

...except the teacher was the opposite of cool

392 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:07pm

re: #354 Archimedes

Gold is the one thing that maintains value.

Not according to FDR and the New Deal it doesn't. The Conspiracy against the Dollar

America had become the ideal creditor. Even the gold which had been sent to the U.S. for safekeeping during the war had been returned to Europe.

In the ensuing twenty years Europe was occupied with the restoration and development of its economy, as was Japan. Assisting Europe in his restoration was the multinational corporation. It brought capital, new management techniques, and modern technology.

A multinational corporation usually denotes an American corporation with direct investments abroad. These investments as a rule take the form of a foreign affiliate incorporated abroad. There may be many foreign affiliates of a U.S.-based corporation such as IBM, GM, Ford, and ITT. These affiliates sell in more than one country and also obtain their raw materials and capital, and produce their goods in several countries. About 200 giant U.S.-based corporations are regarded as being multinational in scope. Their affiliates are client followers of their U.S.-based corporate aristocracies. The movement was led by American corporations which saw rich new markets, especially in a Europe busy rebuilding its war-torn economy.

It also was an opportunity for the American corporations to produce cheaply abroad for sale in America. After a product has been manufactured in America and is found to be a success, the company thinks in terms of costs. If it finds that the product would cost less to produce abroad, it proceeds accordingly, even though the American worker will be out of a job. In the long-term time frame, this is what is happening all over America. The jobs, in effect, have been exported and, with them, the technical know-how.

Labor unions have been helpless to prevent or even guide this new development. They could join with multinational unions abroad only to be thwarted again, however, when the multinationals move their European or other plants to Africa and Latin America where there is a waiting labor market.

393 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:27pm

re: #388 unreconstructed rebel

They may want to include a leather collar.

Don't turn this into a banking kink thread please.

394 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:30pm
395 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:36pm

-442

End of day rally?

396 doppelganglander  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:49pm

re: #383 Vergeltung

$3.99 for premium here near NY City.

$3.89 yesterday in suburban Atlanta. We are still suffering some shortages but I'm not seeing long lines or stations with no gas at all like I was last week. I hope the prices will drop as the situation stabilizes.

397 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:30:55pm

Sarah's entire speech here in Ft Myers is being broadcast live on our local talk-radio station! Cool!

398 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:31:32pm

re: #394 ploome hineni

why did you do that?

No free markets.

399 Cognito  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:31:41pm

re: #309 doppelganglander

That sounds fake to me.

It's ridiculous.

400 Archimedes  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:31:47pm

When you print money all you're doing is printing paper, not real value. Pump paper into the economy, and it has to be matched against the goods and services in the market place (the real value). So, if you have, for example, 100 dollars in the market, and 100 goods, the cost might be $1 per good. You then double the number of dollars and all that happens is that each good ends up costing $2.

What is bad is that if you have $10 in the bank, it has now halved in value. Inflating the currency is a sneaky way of stealing (taxing). It's a sneaky way of engaging in wealth transfer.

For the economy to be strong it has to be free. The government is just an obstacle.

401 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:31:51pm

re: #388 unreconstructed rebel

They may want to include a leather collar.

I'm reminded of a line from an old Heinlein story.

"I went to ask about a book for information on "The year they hung the Lawyers". The Librarian asked why I wanted access to a sealed archive."

402 Meremortal  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:17pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

Okay, now I understand. You were explaining a physical reaction to a comical statement I made. Gosh, I'm dense sometimes.


*
Yes, it's so easy to misunderstand comments on the net.

I'm off to the bank to see if they will let me get some cash for the mattress. I'll be back...

403 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:27pm

re: #384 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I'm actually halfway between Joplin and Springfield, just off of I-44.

Okay. Been to the big rest stop along 44 near Joplin, and the Wal*Mart on 44 in Springfield (damn, they sell liquor there!).

404 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:35pm

re: #396 doppelganglander

I sent you the e-mail re: Sundays get together in ATL, but it bounced back to me saying you don't accept SPAM

405 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:47pm

re: #305 Ben Hur

The middle school teacher responsible for the Obama Youth video has been suspended.

LINK?

406 Irene NYC  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:47pm

re: #397 Florida Lady

Sarah's entire speech here in Ft Myers is being broadcast live on our local talk-radio station! Cool!


What station is that, Florida Lady?

407 turn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:48pm

The Dow giveth, and the Dow taketh away. I thought the bailout was supposed to bring confidence to the market, boy was I duped. My 401k is history, my house is worth way less, my paycheck is being squeezed by modest increases and massive price increases, and the nation is one step away from electing a socialist president. Wow, this is enough to really get you depressed. I will not dwell on this, it too in time will pass.

408 Sizzlack  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:49pm

Big Mac is letting Obama have it right now. Finally.

409 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:52pm

re: #396 doppelganglander

$3.89 yesterday in suburban Atlanta. We are still suffering some shortages but I'm not seeing long lines or stations with no gas at all like I was last week. I hope the prices will drop as the situation stabilizes.

A friend of mine in Atlanta was saying he can get gas, but just regular unleaded, no premium, though.

410 Vergeltung  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:52pm

re: #397 Florida Lady

Sarah's entire speech here in Ft Myers is being broadcast live on our local talk-radio station! Cool!

that's great news. we need you guys down in Florida to come through for us! :)

411 TheMatrix31  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:32:57pm

"For a guy who's already authored two memoirs, he's not exactly an open book." - Senator McCain.

412 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:33:12pm
413 Sizzlack  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:33:19pm

Where the heck was this speech a month ago?

414 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:33:21pm

There are a few protestors at the rally. And Sarah just said, "And my son is over in Iraq right now, fighting for your right to protest!"

415 The Kevin Show  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:33:21pm

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Taliban leaders are holding Saudi-brokered talks with the Afghan government to end the country's bloody conflict -- and are severing their ties with al Qaeda, sources close to the historic discussions have told CNN.

The militia, which has been intensifying its attacks on the U.S.-led coalition that toppled it from power in 2001 for harboring Osama bin Laden's terrorist network, has been involved four days of talks hosted by Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, says the source.

The talks -- the first of their kind aimed at resolving the lengthy conflict in Afghanistan -- mark a significant move by the Saudi leadership to take a direct role in Afghanistan, hosting delegates who have until recently been their enemies.

They also mark a sidestepping of key "war on terror" ally Pakistan, frequently accused of not doing enough to tackle militants sheltering on its territory, which has previously been a conduit for talks between the Saudis and Afghanistan.

According to the source, fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar -- high on the U.S. military's most-wanted list -- was not present, but his representatives were keen to stress the reclusive cleric is no longer allied to al Qaeda.

416 maddogg  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:33:31pm

re: #394 ploome hineni

why did you do that?

Because market sentiment was in the dumpster and I could smell this storm coming.

417 itellu3times  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:33:41pm

My man Rep Waxman, going after Lehman Bros execs, who paid themselves $10,000,000,000 over xx years (well including buybacks and dividends), including fat bonuses THIS year.

For once, I agree with him, go get'm Henry.

/ps - Charles, typing very very slow again ...

418 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:01pm

re: #406 Irene NYC

What station is that, Florida Lady?

www.winknewsradio.com

419 gop_patriot  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:05pm
420 Uncle Joe  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:07pm

It's interesting that none of the talking heads have been pointing out that this is another October selloff in a long, long line of October selloffs. September and October have long been very tough months for the stock market. I'm not saying this is just a seasonal thing but the seasonality of it is notable.

421 turn  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:08pm

re: #342 charles_martel

I didn't want to retire anyway....

Ha, look on the bright side. I'll remember that one.

422 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:10pm

re: #411 TheMatrix31

"For a guy who's already authored two memoirs, he's not exactly an open book." - Senator McCain.

BAM!

423 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:23pm

re: #403 Ward Cleaver

Okay. Been to the big rest stop along 44 near Joplin, and the Wal*Mart on 44 in Springfield (damn, they sell liquor there!).

All the Wal-Marts here sell booze, even the non-Supercenter stores.

424 nightlight  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:40pm

McCain is definitely hitting Obama now -- Who is the REAL Obama? On Fox now

425 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:34:54pm

re: #417 itellu3times

My man Rep Waxman, going after Lehman Bros execs, who paid themselves $10,000,000,000 over xx years (well including buybacks and dividends), including fat bonuses THIS year.

Why not? It was a free Government backed ride.

426 tfc3rid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:35:05pm

re: #415 The Kevin Show

Bull crap...

Even if he says that, he is wanted... And should be killed on sight.

427 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:35:12pm

Sarah's got this crowd FIRED UP!

428 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:35:24pm
429 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:35:50pm

re: #424 nightlight

McCain is definitely hitting Obama now -- Who is the REAL Obama? On Fox now

McCain has the nasty little tendency to go half way with an attack and then suddenly back off to reach across the isle.

430 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:35:53pm

On FOX: McCain finally claiming ownership of calling for regs on FannieMae & FreddieMac, Blaming the One.

431 Florida Lady  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:35:53pm
432 TheMatrix31  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:02pm

Sarah actually said, "My son is fighting for your right to protest"?!

I don't want her to be VP. I want her to be my wife. I'm in love.

433 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:03pm

re: #417 itellu3times

My man Rep Waxman, going after Lehman Bros execs, who paid themselves $10,000,000,000 over xx years (well including buybacks and dividends), including fat bonuses THIS year.

For once, I agree with him, go get'm Henry.

/ps - Charles, typing very very slow again ...

Failed fatcat severance packages should be limited to a new pair of work boots and cab fare to the nearest pier. That way they have two choices for doing the right thing.

434 snopercod  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:13pm

ROAD TRIP!

435 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:14pm

FoxNews.com is streaming both McCain & Palin's speeches.

436 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:21pm

re: #415 The Kevin Show

According to the source, fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar -- high on the U.S. military's most-wanted list -- was not present, but his representatives were keen to stress the reclusive cleric is no longer allied to al Qaeda.

So instead, they're supporting Obama?

/rather than osama

437 J.S.  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:24pm

re: #357 DeafDog

Exactly. It's the MSM's double standard...although at times, I believe, it goes far beyond a mere "double standard" -- it's outright disgusting...If truth is told about Obama's relationships with unsavory low-lifes (whether it's Rezko, Ayers, Wright, etc.) immediately the MSM jumps on the bandwagon and is "outraged" and comments about the "nasty campaign" turn up -- yet this same MSM turns a completely blind eye, deaf ears, to all the real lies told about S. Palin (the utter derangement about S. Palin, etc. This is all ignored -- whether it's CBC repeating scandalous, untrue, fictitious, if not libelous, gossip from a KKKos site or CNN's lying "truth squad" -- all of that MSM never, ever labels as "nasty." O, No! It's only "nasty" when truthful remarks are made with respect to Obama.

438 itellu3times  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:25pm

re: #417 itellu3times

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

439 Phocid  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:32pm

McCain is on Obama's six...he seems to have the OODA loop down pat.

440 Sizzlack  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:32pm

If this is the angle Mac is gonna take now tomorrow debate is gonna be a whole lotta fun to watch.

441 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:53pm

re: #383 Vergeltung

Heh. Fair Lawn NJ had $3.19 for a gallon of regular and $3.45 premium (with credit card). Other parts of Bergen and Passaic counties saw under $3.10 per gallon.

442 pegcity  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:36:56pm

re: #432 TheMatrix31

she has a vested interest in see america succeed

443 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:37:00pm

re: #429 Egfrow

McCain has the nasty little tendency to go half way with an attack and then suddenly back off to reach across the isle.

He needs to know that it's no longer just a Senate debate.

444 nightlight  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:37:01pm

McCain just said Obama has received MORE money from Fannie/Freddie than anyone

445 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:37:14pm
446 Egfrow  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:37:17pm

re: #428 ploome hineni

I don;t understand

Markets that are not allowed to fail can also not be allowed to succeed. We are in an era of Socialism. What is there left to invest in without getting robbed by and manipulated by the Fed?

447 Kenneth  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:37:22pm

Quote:re: #296 ploome hineni

Great find!

Further: Obama's first job in Chicago was at the law firm Sidley Austin where he met Michelle. Bernadine Dohrn also worked there and it is possible that Bill Ayers helped him get the job.

448 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 6, 2008 12:37:35pm

re: #430 unrealizedviewpoint</