Hold on tight folks!

//////I'm still unsure whose fault this is...

At what point would trading be suspended?

This is what happens when government interferes in the market. *sigh*

I think I'll just avoid watching the numbers for the rest of the day.

I wonder if tomorrow we'll see another White Tuesday (?) bounce.

It's going to be a bumpy ride.

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

At this time of day, when it drops 2400 points.

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

I'm not sure it can be, at this point in the day.

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

When there is no more stock to sell off. /

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

A one hour stoppage is put in place if the market goes down by 1,100 points before 2pm. Half hour stoppage until 2:30pm, no stoppage after that until it goes down by 2,200 points. Then trading is suspended for the day.

Ah. Apparently at 2400 points.

Thanks, Watchmen.

re: #3 MandyManners

At what point would trading be suspended?

Once it drops ten percent (~1100 points).

Gold up $36 an ounce.

Anybody else watching the Lehman Bros CEO Fuld hearin?

McCain's talking about Fannie Mae...

So, tomorrow night's debate was supposed to be drawn entirely from audience questions. Now it's almost certain all those questions will be on the economy.

re: #12 Ward Cleaver

Once it drops ten percent (~1100 points).

Only before 2:30pm EDT. Otherwise, it takes a 2,200 point drop to suspend trading.

Thank God for tax breaks on Wooden Arrows! There's no telling how bad this could have been without those incentives.

/Do I really need to sarc this?/

re: #15 arethusa

Now it's almost certain all those questions will be on the economy.

So, no talking polar bears?

Oh well, I'm not retiring for 45 years anyway and a large portion of my 401K is in a VERY conservative savings-type account, with only about 25% in stocks... The portion in stocks has dropped 5K in a week...

re: #2 arethusa

//////I'm still unsure whose fault this is...

Bushitler! Chimpy Halliburton!

re: #3 MandyManners

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #18 Occasional Reader

So, no talking polar bears?

No, instead it's all going to be talking heads. Heh.

thedopefishlives,

This is what happens when government interferes in the market. *sigh*

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

re: #14 TheBull271

Anybody else watching the Lehman Bros CEO Fuld hearin?

No, just saw a snippet at lunchtine, on CNN.

Buy, these things are always an overreaction and its Monday. Buy an index fund and sell tomorrow or Friday.

/Free advice is whorth what you paid for it.

re: #18 Occasional Reader

So, no talking polar bears?

/Nor moose, nor pigs, nor fluffy bunnies...

Oops. I made the mistake of looking at my 401(k) and threw up in my mouth a little.

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

thedopefishlives,

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

There's plenty of blame to go around, unless you listen to the Dems; then it's all Bush's fault.

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though

Greedy lenders normally have no interest in lending to dumb borrowers.

Unless lousy incentive structures are put in place for them to do so.

Which brings us back to "government interference in the market"...

But, but, but . . . the bailout was supposed to keep this from happening!

/

I don't even want to look at my 401k right now.

Patience, patience. As my dad has always said, the stock market is for the long-term, not for the faint of heart.

re: #13 Charles

Gold up $36 an ounce.

That's good!
Cause that's what I DO have!
So, At what point should I sell it?
Or not!

Nobody panic! Remember this wonderful bailout bill is going to ensure the most important of all financial markets today. That's right...wooden toy arrow's. As long as those are in tact we will survive.

Good Allah on high wasn't this bailout supposed to prevent a financial meltdown and that was why it was so urgent?

re: #27 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Oops. I made the mistake of looking at my 401(k) and threw up in my mouth a little.

Not even going to look at mine.

I think we'll bottom at 8000 or so but who knows. Stash your money in gold or a brokerage account. Wait for the dust to settle then pick through the carnage for value companies.

re: #31 reloadingisnotahobby

Not.

re: #32 Dream

Nobody panic! Remember this wonderful bailout bill is going to ensure the most important of all financial markets today. That's right...wooden toy arrow's. As long as those are in tact we will survive.

Good Allah on high wasn't this bailout supposed to prevent a financial meltdown and that was why it was so urgent?

Maybe that's what the public thought, but it's only the beginning.

CRAzy
--with apologies to Willie Nelson and Patsy Cline

CRAzy
I'm CRAzy for feeling so panicked
I'm CRAzy
CRAzy for feeling so blue

Although
For a while you can cheat economics
There is someday
That a big nasty bill will come due

Worry
Why do I let myself worry
I'm sure
I can push a bailout through

CRAzy
For fearing my role would be told true
I was CRAzy for buyin'
And I'm CRAzy with lyin'
And I'm CRAzy
To place blame on you

Posted the following in the thread below, just as this thread appeared It bears repeating:

Its interesting, isn't it, that the same MSM who can't find anything bad on B0 are also incapable of finding out who exactly has unleashed this unprecedented raid on the world economy.

Its not just the sub-prime banking crisis - that has been going on for a good year now, and has already led to a state bail-out and nationalisation of one bank here in the UK one year ago!
Other international banks (UBS, for example) were caught in it earlier this year - so why this collapse across the banking industry, across the board in the industrialised countries?

Its not just because of politics (i.e. liberal fascist love a crisis), there's gotta be more to it, or rather: more than just a few semi-public figures lining their pockets.

It is deeply regrettable that there don't seem to be any business journalists willing to dig deeper - all we get, across the board, is wailing and gnashing of teeth, and of course blaming the politicians ...

We deserve better, I think!

/So, which of these things did you NOT think would happen when you woke up this morning:

A) The markets would plummet 700+ points.

B) CNN would call Bill Ayers a terrorist.

Me, too.

re: #17 USCMSNE

Thank God for tax breaks on Wooden Arrows! There's no telling how bad this could have been without those incentives.

/Do I really need to sarc this?/

I think not.

We have a horrific number of really over-leveraged banks and so forth in the US. That is actually the good news. The bad news is that the leverage of the banks, etc. is around 4 to 5 times ours. Levers work both ways. When things are going up, they make them appear to go up faster. When things are going down, the same thing happens. Iceland is probably no in default on everything on a mark to market model. On mark to market, I suspect that there are a lot of insolvent European things. The EU has not risen to the challenge. It will be bad here, but worse there.

This too shall pass. But I really wish to extend my thanks to my very own congressobject Farney Bank (sic) for his excellent work on FNM and FRE that lead the charge into the sub-prime mess. Somehow, I do not think that electing a marrionette as president will help this in the least.

re: #32 Dream

Good Allah on high wasn't this bailout supposed to prevent a financial meltdown and that was why it was so urgent?

Bush commented this morning that we won't see the benefits from the bailout all at once. He says it's going to take time.

Well, gee golly, doggone it, doncha know that took a lot of insigth to make that statement. Idiots.

I wonder what the Lord Humongous's advice would be in this situation?

re: #35 Irene NYC

Not.

I guess the other ?
At what point do I work my ASS off to find more?
I'm a little long in the tooth for that kind of work!
LOL

We are taking on too much water to bail out.

If you have any dry powder, be ready to shoot.

The markets WILL stabilize. That will offer buying opportunities.

/I have no idea where the bottom is and have the losses to prove it.

re: #17 USCMSNE

/Well, but the taxes on wooden arrows were 39 cents, making a 30-cent arrow 69 cents...something had to be done.

re: #41 Shr_Nfr

But I really wish to extend my thanks to my very own congressobject Farney Bank (sic) for his excellent work on FNM and FRE

Hey, he couldn't help it, the "pillow talk" had him all bewitched and bewildered.

Oh well, I'm not retiring for 45 years anyway and a large portion of my 401K is in a VERY conservative savings-type account, with only about 25% in stocks... The portion in stocks has dropped 5K in a week...

Buy now.

Don't have the numbers handy, but in verbage....

It tooks many years (decades?) for the stock market to get back to it's (at the time) inflated 1929 levels. I want to say like 20 years.

But on the other hand, if you bought stocks in 1932, you made out pretty good.
Not saying we are headed for anything at all like a depression, but I would consider buying soon if you are 20 or more years away from retirement.

re: #37 buzzsawmonkey

CRAzy
--with apologies to Willie Nelson and Patsy Cline

CRAzy
I'm CRAzy for feeling so panicked
I'm CRAzy
CRAzy for feeling so blue

Although
For a while you can cheat economics
There is someday
That a big nasty bill will come due

Worry
Why do I let myself worry
I'm sure
I can push a bailout through

CRAzy
For fearing my role would be told true
I was CRAzy for buyin'
And I'm CRAzy with lyin'
And I'm CRAzy
To place blame on you

I remember when Rush would play Crazy whenever he talked about Ross Perot.

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

thedopefishlives,

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Actually, my point was more to the effect of the "financial bailout package" that got passed over the weekend. I strongly disagree with the basic premise of the bailout, and I find it rather ironic that the markets are reacting negatively even when the House has passed the bill.

Maybe we should take those wooden toy arrows and play 'spear and magic helmet!' with a few of these idiots. God. What part of 'representative' don't they understand?

re: #17 USCMSNE

Only problem - you can't shoot wooden arrows through the Sarah-Cuda.

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder what the Lord Humongous's advice would be in this situation?

Heh. I was just explaining to two unarmed liberal friends over lunch that if things got really bad, my plan was to show up with my Mossberg, take their stuff and their wives, and become a Mad Max-style warlord.

Guess I need to stop at Wal-Mart on the way home and pick up some ammo--right after I stop at the military surplus store and buy some cases of MRE's.

I suggest you all start watch "Mad Max" and "The Road Warrior" 'cause that might be our future real soon.

On a happier note, more methane is being release into the atmosphere from the warming oceans, and the Europeans want us all to limit our beef and diary intake (Soylent Green, anyone?) Maybe the Mayans have it rigth about 2012.

Drink up, gang!

re: #30 Florida Lady

But, but, but . . . the bailout was supposed to keep this from happening!

Without the bail out I think we would have lost an awful lot more.

As it is, I think we will get 2 more drops like this coming before it bottoms out

The Eurozone is taking a beating.

The markets are wildly volatile. Bargains galore, if you have the nerve.

re: #23 Dirk Diggler

thedopefishlives,

To a certain extent, yes. There were plenty of dumb borrowers and greedy lenders in the sub-prime mortgages market though. These problems aren't all because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Moral hazard, anyone?

Putin has the oil money to cause this

re: #39 arethusa

The past...not related to today?
Hummm?
All depends on who's dog they're beating!

re: #41 Shr_Nfr

Sorry, but I dropped European before the bad news comment. The European banks like Ing, Barclays, etc. are leveraged around 40 or 50 to 1.

re: #33 Ward Cleaver

Not even going to look at mine.

same here. what's the point? it's not going to be good news....

re: #57 godfrey

The Eurozone is taking a beating. The markets are wildly volatile. Bargains galore, if you have the nerve.

You mean if you have any money.

The man that may have paid for Obama's Harvard eduction, Dr. Khalid Al-Mansour, published a nice book in 1990 - Challenges of Spreading Islam in America and Other Essays

re: #54 Occasional Reader

Heh. I was just explaining to two unarmed liberal friends over lunch that if things got really bad, my plan was to show up with my Mossberg, take their stuff and their wives, and become a Mad Max-style warlord.

Get a hockey mask and a loud speaker and show up at their house. "Just walk away. Nobody has to die. Leave the food and women. Just walk away."

/

re: #39 arethusa

/So, which of these things did you NOT think would happen when you woke up this morning:

A) The markets would plummet 700+ points.

B)

re: #63 Walter L. Newton

Well, there is that, yes.

Time to jump out the window!

Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

just seen this on fox good idea that bailout huh?

Wasn't the bailout supposed to calm fears, stabilize the market, and prevent a huge sell-off?

Yeah, that was a trillion well spent.

re: #53 Cap'n DOC

Only problem - you can't shoot wooden arrows through the Sarah-Cuda.

/I'm not sure even silver bullets work with that one.

Should I be out shopping for an applecart?

re: #53 Cap'n DOC

Only problem - you can't shoot wooden arrows through the Sarah-Cuda.

That's actually pretty funny. I've been looking into buying a Fred Bear or PSE bow, recently. Somehow, I must have overlooked this gem!

re: #41 Shr_Nfr

Exactly. Obama will just be a puppet of the Schumers, Franks, Dodds, and Pelosis. He himself hasn't a clue.

re: #68 acwgusa

Time to jump out the window!

Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

A kinder, gentler 'jump out the window'...

re: #68 acwgusa

Time to jump out the window! Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

I'm in a garden apartment. Maybe I'll just stick my head out the window and have someone walk on it.

700 points?!?!?!?!?!

Orphaned orangutans!

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

re: #68 acwgusa

Time to jump out the window!

Oh, wait, I'm on the first floor.

Throw yourself under Obama's bus!

/yeah, that's it!

It's time to raise taxes!
/Obama

re: #69 JimmyTheClaw

just seen this on fox good idea that bailout huh?

Especially rushing it thru despite massive public outcry not to. Of course now that they have the money, Bush says, "We don't want to rush into the situation and have the program not be effective."

Made sure you got the money first though, didn't you?

It's nice how less than 24 hours after the last draft of the bill was voted down, the market practically recovered from a 777 point loss with a rapid upward swing. Now that this bill has been approved, we are in free fall. I thought it was supposed to save us? I think the slide is people getting the hell out of the Socialist markets.

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

I'm in a garden apartment. Maybe I'll just stick my head out the window and have someone walk on it.

Crunch!

Ow!

re: #79 Ward Cleaver

Throw yourself under Obama's bus!

/yeah, that's it!

I'm too fat.

/Big Ol' Speed bump.

re: #56 3 wood

Without the bail out I think we would have lost an awful lot more.

As it is, I think we will get 2 more drops like this coming before it bottoms out

Capitulation?

btw, here is part of McCain's speech today. Looks like the gloves are off:

My opponent has invited serious questioning by announcing a few weeks ago that he would quote — “take off the gloves.” Since then, whenever I have questioned his policies or his record, he has called me a liar.

Rather than answer his critics, Senator Obama will try to distract you from noticing that he never answers the serious and legitimate questions he has been asked. But let me reply in the plainest terms I know. I don’t need lessons about telling the truth to American people. And were I ever to need any improvement in that regard, I probably wouldn’t seek advice from a Chicago politician.

My opponent’s touchiness every time he is questioned about his record should make us only more concerned. For a guy who’s already authored two memoirs, he’s not exactly an open book. It’s as if somehow the usual rules don’t apply, and where other candidates have to explain themselves and their records, Senator Obama seems to think he is above all that. Whatever the question, whatever the issue, there’s always a back story with Senator Obama. All people want to know is: What has this man ever actually accomplished in government? What does he plan for America? In short: Who is the real Barack Obama? But ask such questions and all you get in response is another barrage of angry insults.

He needs to continue hamering these points over and over!

Good on ya, Johnny Mac and team!

Greedy lenders normally have no interest in lending to dumb borrowers.

Normally yes. Markets, while often the optimal solution, are not infallible though. Half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA.

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

I don't think any of us are panicking and/or saying we're not going to make it.

It's just highly annoying to have to sit and watch this train wreck take place, and slightly worrying to see the empty suits in Washington doing all the WRONG things to fix it.

re: #80 Killgore Trout

It's time to raise taxes!
/Obama

And rewrite loads of privately-negotiated contracts!
/Biden

In these kinds of situations, you better stock up on sheep.

So?
Most of the B.S. ear mark(PORK)
Was in the form of tax relief.....
Just how many fortune 500 corp make wooden arrows?
Wool research?
I had no idea....Really , none!

The Exploding Banana Mask

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Especially rushing it thru despite massive public outcry not to. Of course now that they have the money,

re: #54 Occasional Reader

Heh. I was just explaining to two unarmed liberal friends over lunch that if things got really bad, my plan was to show up with my Mossberg, take their stuff and their wives, and become a Mad Max-style warlord.

I am picking up a Mossberg Persuader this weekend. you likie?

Dow down 710 at 1430 EST.
Fox has an interesting article on it's healthblog by Dr. Keith that says the economic depression is synonymous with Clinical Depression. I had lunch with a friend who is a Clinical Psychologist and she said we need to bare monitoring the suicide rates. She is treating double the number of patients with depression in the last six months due to the current state of financial debacle of our economic environment.
YIKES!

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

What the fuck? I haven't seen any desperation here. Most of the comments have been satirical and humorous. Geeeeshhhh.

re: #72 unrealizedviewpoint

Should I be out shopping for an applecart?

Well, I think my next career will involve wearing a paper hat and saying "would you like fries with that?"

re: #91 reloadingisnotahobby

So?
Most of the B.S. ear mark(PORK)
Was in the form of tax relief.....
Just how many fortune 500 corp make wooden arrows?
Wool research?
I had no idea....Really , none!

I heard on Saturday that $100b was added, most of it tax breaks, like a tax deduction for R&D expenses.

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

Why didn't they just give us the $700b, and let us spend it?

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

re: #92 Killgore Trout

I totally approve.

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

Amen.

re: #99 acwgusa

I'd buy a Polaris Missile, and threaten San Francisco.

Actually, would 700b even buy a Polaris Missile these days?

re: #78 alegrias

Most of the greatest generation--who fought & won WWII for us--also survived the Great Depression.

Please lizards don't lose your minds, get a grip, we need you in the foxhole.

We are the fundamentals of this economy and we have to stay SOUND!

If we're here blogging at Charles' house, the world hasn't gone to hell yet.

Good observation.

I can't up-ding, so I'm quoting.

re: #87 Dirk Diggler

Half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA.

But which could still be sent up the food chain to be packaged by Freddie/Fannie, securitized and rated "good as money". Without a "quasi-governmental" entity there as the Top Sucker (or so everyone believed), people would have paid a lot more attention to risk.

Damn speculators.

Financial Freefall?!
B...b...but...the bailout!

Washington to taxpayers: PWNED!

re: #57 godfrey

The Eurozone is taking a beating.

The markets are wildly volatile. Bargains galore, if you have the nerve.

* * *
Opportunity is knocking: (somewhere)

"more than 4,000 attend D.C. auction of area foreclosures" of 450 foreclosed properties this weekend.

"...Real Estate Disposition Corp President Jim Corum said auctions were a good way to atempt to asuage the country's housing crisis.
...It's one of the easiest ways to sell real estate..."

dcexaminer.com of today

re: #100 godfrey

The one at 1:45 is my favorite.