LGF

more options

  

Advertisement
BN Top 100 Bestsellers: Save up to 30%

Gallup Daily Tracking Poll: Obama Up By 11

Politics | Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:32:20 am PDT

The latest Gallup daily tracking poll: Obama’s Lead Expands to 11 Over McCain.

Advertisement

796 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 pat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:32:55am

Charles said it.

2 Perplexed  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:33:09am

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Nothing to see here. Move along.

3 Peacekeeper  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:33:28am

Obamastan next stop!

4 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:33:32am

President Obama.

Yikes!

5 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:33:37am

Gallup has been way off the rest for months

Here's the RCP Average nobody else is that far off. But, I am sure it will be spun like crazy now. Most of these polls have McCain gaining, not slipping

6 jill e  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:33:51am

How McCain could have won the election last night:

Promise the American people that if he is elected, he will appoint Rudy Giulliani as Attorney General and his first order of business will be to investigate, indict and prosecute all those involved in any wrong doing in the sub-prime mortgage debacle, from Wall Street, to K Street to Main Street.

HT: Reader Gary at The Anchoress

7 zach (the jew) tobias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:33:59am

anybody who decided their candidate based on that debate doesn't deserve to vote...

8 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:34:48am

Polls are great predictors, too.

9 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:34:51am

Saw a CNN poll at lunchtime saying that Obama won the debate, 70 to 30.

10 jemima  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:34:53am

Make it up by 1000. He won, it's over. He's King of the World. etc. /MSM mass induced hysteria

11 Peacekeeper  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:34:55am

The debate was sooooo dull everybody skipped and took the MSM's word for it.

12 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:34:56am
13 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:35:09am

At some point though, folks, we have to realize that all of these polls are not necessarily wrong...

As for me, I'm voting McCain and I have never been polled...

It is astounding to me that a Presiential Election between as well-known war hero and long time Senator could lose to a man with little experience, bad connections and no plan...

14 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:35:20am

Of course, all the polls had John Kerry looking like he would win around this time four years ago.

15 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:35:51am

Sorry- but I think it's a crock of shit. I'll wait for Zogby.

16 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:36:07am

re: #14 Ringo the Gringo

Of course, all the polls had John Kerry looking like he would win around this time four years ago.

But what was his 'largest lead'? 6 points?

17 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:36:42am

re: #16 tfc3rid

But what was his 'largest lead'? 6 points?

I don't remember.

18 shug  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:36:54am

As a Lions fan I know what it means to root for a loser
.
I will continue to support McCain Palin to the end and hope for a miracle

19 Peacekeeper  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:37:03am

A lot of people are mad and they want Obama to come in and tax the sh*t out of those rich bastards.

And they don't think any farther than that.

/I know

20 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:37:16am

Obama 47%, McCain 45%

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

21 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:37:50am

Well, if the polls are horse hockey, then so what?

Better numbers for Obama like this may lull the Dems into a false sense of security... and motivate McCain voters to get out the vote.

22 jester6  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:37:53am

re: #13 tfc3rid

It is astounding to me that a Presiential Election between as well-known war hero and long time Senator could lose to a man with little experience, bad connections and no plan...

That's because you are still voting for President. Many people are voting for National Therapist and Nanny. Most patient's don't like the Dr. Phil approach.

23 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:06am

If Obama wins, I suspect quite a bit of buyers remorse to follow.

24 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:13am

Ok lets look at this.

Zogby Obama +2
Hotline Obama +1
Rassmussen Obama +6
Battleground Obama +4

Gallup Obama +11

Come on

25 MrSnuggles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:19am

This does not actually include data from AFTER the debate, does it?

26 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:30am

Keep it up, Gallup. You're motivating republicans and making 0bamabots feel comfortable enough they might stay home and not work to win this.

27 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:37am

re: #20 Sharmuta

Obama 47%, McCain 45%

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

Same as yesterday.

I'm gonna go ahead and call this gallup poll a fluke.

28 Peacekeeper  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:44am

When the market collapsed, so did McCain's chances.

29 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:47am

re: #7 zach (the jew) tobias

That was not a debate, it was a chance for the candidates to recycle the same crap they say on campaign stops. The townhall meeting format was not followed. Did Tom Brokaw pick the questions? I wanted a "Pony Tail guy" moment...instead, we got straight forward stuff......boring and more to Obama's advantage. McCain needs to keep hammering Obama and get his base motivated to vote. Offering "free stuff" like Obama does will not help his cause. A liberal will not switch side because of that, but a conservative will wince and think about not even voting if you say that crap enough. If McCain wants to win, he needs to motivate his base to vote: the conservatives. So far, he has not. Only Palin has done that, and that is not enough.

30 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:38:57am

re: #20 Sharmuta

Obama 47%, McCain 45%

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

Zogby's of likely voters. Gallup's of registered voters.

31 shug  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:18am

re: #30 MandyManners

Zogby's of likely voters. Gallup's of registered voters.

registered by ACORN

32 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:31am

Charles, is this reverse psychology, or are you really in the dumper over this?

33 davidsaradin  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:32am

For what it is worth, this poll does not take last night's debate into account:

"Nearly all interviews in today's report were conducted before Tuesday night's town hall style debate in Nashville. Any movement in voter preferences as a result of this debate will be apparent in coming days."

34 jester6  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:36am

re: #28 Peacekeeper

I agree. And if you watch the news you would think the MSM is trying to talk us into a recession.

35 J.S.  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:37am

re: #9 Ward Cleaver

Yeah, but that was such a bogus "poll" -- it's really, really fraudulent...note the disclaimer -- "this is not a scientific poll" -- whenever you read that, you can immediately discount whatever the alleged "poll" tells you.

36 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:48am

re: #6 jill e

How McCain could have won the election last night:

Promise the American people that if he is elected, he will appoint Rudy Giulliani as Attorney General and his first order of business will be to investigate, indict and prosecute all those involved in any wrong doing in the sub-prime mortgage debacle, from Wall Street, to K Street to Main Street.

HT: Reader Gary at The Anchoress

This is a pretty good idea. Only problem I see is that Giuliani probably would not do it. He is making a lot of money and not working nearly as hard as he would have to as Attorney General.

37 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:39:59am

October 14-16 Gallup Poll in 2004... Kerry 52, Bush 44...

38 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:40:18am

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

If Obama wins, I suspect quite a bit of buyers remorse to follow.

A lot of, "WTF did we do?"

39 astronmr20  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:40:21am

re: #32 Ward Cleaver

Charles, is this reverse psychology, or are you really in the dumper over this?

I think he's just posting the info. Passing it along.

40 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:40:53am

re: #35 J.S.

Yeah, but that was such a bogus "poll" -- it's really, really fraudulent...note the disclaimer -- "this is not a scientific poll" -- whenever you read that, you can immediately discount whatever the alleged "poll" tells you.

It just illustrates how useless polls are.

41 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:00am

re: #15 Sharmuta

Zogby as a two point difference with a +/- of 2.3....it's a tie. That 11 points from Gallup is crap and should be tossed out of the average. If RCP did that, the actual spread would be 4.4, not the 5.1 they have listed. This race is not over. Polls are not the be all and end all.

42 jill e  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:12am

Who here has been polled? Not me.

43 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:16am

The next few days will show if McCain connected on the economy

My money says he has

44 missviolin  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:16am

I think more people are going to vote for McCain but they are afraid to say it out loud. It's not cool.

45 irongrampa  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:32am

Bears repeating--America has had the knack for having the right person at the right time, in any given situation. Even a cursory look through our history will bear this out. The stumbles (Carter) merely point out the correct path to take.

I can see no reason this election should defy that tradition.

46 jester6  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:33am

re: #37 tfc3rid

Thanks for the context.

47 spypeach  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:41:52am

Has there ever been a poll that was correct? Seriously.

48 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:42:01am

re: #30 MandyManners

Zogby's of likely voters. Gallup's of registered voters.

Hi Mandy. Hey, why'd you 86 your avatar?

49 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:42:07am

re: #9 Ward Cleaver

Saw a CNN poll at lunchtime saying that Obama won the debate, 70 to 30.

A CNN poll is about as meaningful as an LGF poll. CNN and LGF are equally partisan.

50 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:42:35am

I'm not going to wait for Zogby, Rasmussen, or Gallup to figure out their polls.

I'll wait to see what the only poll that matters says on the evening of November 4 - as our votes get tallied (and hopefully counted correctly). I wont bother watching the exit polls either - except to say that everyone should be sure to vote and don't take anything for granted.

All these polls have something that the actual general elections do not - bias and sample size and all kinds of other factors included in skewing results. Gallup is an outlier here compared to the RCP averages; it could be the result of anything from who they asked, when in the past two days they called, etc., but it may not actually be wrong. They quite possibly got to the results that they wanted.

51 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:42:40am

re: #36 JustMyView

This is a pretty good idea. Only problem I see is that Giuliani probably would not do it. He is making a lot of money and not working nearly as hard as he would have to as Attorney General.

I think he'd be proud to serve this country. You severely misunderstand our side if you think we're just after money and dismiss that we want to keep America great, strong and free.

52 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:42:57am
53 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:43:06am

re: #47 spypeach

Has there ever been a poll that was correct? Seriously.

Zogby.

54 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:43:06am

re: #42 jill e

Who here has been polled? Not me.

I haven't gotten a single call from a pollster or a campaign.

55 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:43:28am

re: #6 jill e

How McCain could have won the election last night:

Promise the American people that if he is elected, he will appoint Rudy Giulliani as Attorney General and his first order of business will be to investigate, indict and prosecute all those involved in any wrong doing in the sub-prime mortgage debacle, from Wall Street, to K Street to Main Street.

HT: Reader Gary at The Anchoress

Not bad. Then Rudy can slap ACORN with RICO. He knows a thing or two about that.

56 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:43:44am

re: #37 tfc3rid

exactly, Gallup should gallop off in the sunset.....either that, or start asking a few more Republicans these questions

57 vxbush  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:43:46am

I can't find any breakdown of how many declared democrats vs. republicans are included in Gallup. They break it down too much between liberal, moderate, and independents. So I can't tell how they did their poll.

Grr.

58 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:43:56am

re: #51 Sharmuta

I think he'd be proud to serve this country. You severely misunderstand our side if you think we're just after money and dismiss that we want to keep America great, strong and free.

I think Giuliani would take the helm as AG... I recall in reading his book 'Leadership' that he did want that job when he was AG here in the NY District... Work and $$ be damned...

59 Charles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:04am

re: #32 Ward Cleaver

Charles, is this reverse psychology, or are you really in the dumper over this?

It's just news, that's all.

But McCain didn't do a very good job last night, in my opinion, and I can't lie about it.

Do I still want him to beat Barack Obama? You betcha. But he has to want it too.

60 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:08am

re: #28 Peacekeeper

That runs counter to what those same polls suggest as a tightening of the race since McCain tried to suspend the campaign for the first debate. Other factors - unleashing Palin instead of running away from the issues.

61 MrSnuggles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:09am

re: #42 jill e

I was polled by somebody two days ago, but they never said who it was...

62 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:13am

re: #14 Ringo the Gringo

Of course, all the polls had John Kerry looking like he would win around this time four years ago.

Actually, no Bush led by a small margin almost all the way through October and won by about 2.5%.

63 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:17am

re: #50 lawhawk

I'm not going to wait for Zogby, Rasmussen, or Gallup to figure out their polls.

I'll wait to see what the only poll that matters says on the evening of November 4 - as our votes get tallied (and hopefully counted correctly). I wont bother watching the exit polls either - except to say that everyone should be sure to vote and don't take anything for granted.

All these polls have something that the actual general elections do not - bias and sample size and all kinds of other factors included in skewing results. Gallup is an outlier here compared to the RCP averages; it could be the result of anything from who they asked, when in the past two days they called, etc., but it may not actually be wrong. They quite possibly got to the results that they wanted.

Exactly. A sample of 1000 people is a lot less reliable than 110 million people.

64 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:22am

re: #57 vxbush

Would that help? I, for example, am a registered Democrat.

65 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:31am

re: #56 Desert Dog

exactly, Gallup should gallop off in the sunset.....either that, or start asking a few more Republicans these questions

They will say 'we cannot find any'...

66 jill e  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:41am
67 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:44:53am

re: #48 Ward Cleaver

Hi Mandy. Hey, why'd you 86 your avatar?

It's still there!

68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:06am

Breaking news: Obama still holds 0% support in Kragaristan, Glorious Leader plans to cut all foreign aid from Kragaristan to US in the event of Obama presidency.

69 vxbush  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:14am

re: #64 Last Mohican

Would that help? I, for example, am a registered Democrat.

It would tell me if they're polling 80% democrats and 18% republicans, because that doesn't match the breakdown of the nation between the two.

70 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:15am

re: #54 Ward Cleaver

I haven't gotten a single call from a pollster or a campaign.

I have. Depending on who calls, I give em' the answers for the other guy. Don't listen to polls. People like me take the time to fuck them up.

71 calvin coolidge  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:15am

McCain in a landslide. I have never know myself to be wrong.........ever.
(If you don't count my predictions for the Cubs in '69, '84, '98, '03, and '07, '08)

72 JHW  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:32am

re: #42 jill e

Who here has been polled? Not me.

Only time in years was twice on the night of Gov. Palin's debate. One of the pollsters was my state's Democratic party. They did not like my answers to them, an understatement.

73 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:32am

re: #13 tfc3rid

At some point though, folks, we have to realize that all of these polls are not necessarily wrong...

As for me, I'm voting McCain and I have never been polled...

It is astounding to me that a Presiential Election between as well-known war hero and long time Senator could lose to a man with little experience, bad connections and no plan...

Why not? Look at the polls from the last few elections? Look at the stories being spun all the way up to the day of the election. For example.

I'm not merely being pedantic and indulging in wishful thinking or pie in the sky dreaming. I seriously believe that McCain/Palin will win and by a reasonable margin. I think people are not being entirely honest when being polled and when push comes to shove they will, as in my case "pull the lever" for the best of two candidates or in many cases vote for the lesser of two evils. But vote for McCain/Palin they will.

74 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:41am

re: #59 Charles

It's just news, that's all.

But McCain didn't do a very good job last night, in my opinion, and I can't lie about it.

Do I still want him to beat Barack Obama? You betcha. But he has to want it too.

We may to have to drag him, kicking and screaming, into the White House.

75 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:45:55am

re: #15 Sharmuta

Sorry- but I think it's a crock of shit. I'll wait for Zogby.

Sincere question. What is it that makes you think Zogby is a more reliable pollster? Is there some kind of record you can point to? Again, serious question.

76 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:46:11am

re: #54 Ward Cleaver

I haven't gotten a single call from a pollster or a campaign.

I get called all the time for some reason. Twice so far for presidential polls and once for a local candidate. The two presidential polls were fairly above-board, but the local one was an especially loathsome push-poll. For example: if I knew Candidate X ate babies, would I be more or less likely to vote for her?

77 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:46:12am

re: #73 Outrider

I pray you are correct...

78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:46:27am

re: #54 Ward Cleaver

I haven't gotten a single call from a pollster or a campaign.

I got polled a few weeks back. All I got asked was about environmental issues and how they affected my views on the campaign.

79 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:46:44am

O/T- Google fights drunken emailing

SEATTLE (AP)— Here's the scenario: It's Friday night, and what began as an innocent happy-hour margarita morphed into a few pitchers. After all, those tacos were salty.
Bidding friends adieu, you jump in a cab, head home and decide a quick e-mail check is in order. And there it is: a message from your ex. Or your boss. Or that friend you're secretly mad at.
If you're the kind of person who types tipsy and regrets it in the morning, Google's Mail Goggles, a new test-phase feature in the free Gmail service, might save you some angst.
The Goggles can kick in late at night on weekends. The feature requires you to solve a few easy math problems in short order before hitting “send.” If your logical thinking skills are intact, Google is betting you're sober enough to work out the repercussions of sending that screed you just drafted.
And if you can't multiply two times five, you'll probably thank Google in the morning.
To activate Goggles, Gmail users should click the Settings link at the top of a Gmail page, then go to the Labs section.
There's no shame in admitting that sometimes you need a little extra help. Gmail engineer Jon Perlow designed Goggles with his own weaknesses in mind.
“Sometimes I send messages I shouldn't send. Like the time I told that girl I had a crush on her over text message. Or the time I sent that late night e-mail to my ex-girlfriend that we should get back together,” he wrote when announcing Mail Goggles on a company blog.
The name is derived from the slang term “beer goggles,” or the curious effect of alcohol on one's ability to see the true nature of that “cutie” at the other end of the bar.
But you can set up Mail Goggles to protect you from yourself at other emotionally vulnerable times - before your morning coffee, for example, or right after Grey's Anatomy.

80 izbliss  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:46:56am

Forget the polls. The pollsters will only publish what they want you to see.

81 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:03am
82 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:10am

re: #57 vxbush

I can't find any breakdown of how many declared democrats vs. republicans are included in Gallup. They break it down too much between liberal, moderate, and independents. So I can't tell how they did their poll.

Grr.

That's the whole idea.

83 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:14am

re: #29 Desert Dog

That was not a debate, it was a chance for the candidates to recycle the same crap they say on campaign stops. The townhall meeting format was not followed. Did Tom Brokaw pick the questions? I wanted a "Pony Tail guy" moment...instead, we got straight forward stuff......boring and more to Obama's advantage. McCain needs to keep hammering Obama and get his base motivated to vote. Offering "free stuff" like Obama does will not help his cause. A liberal will not switch side because of that, but a conservative will wince and think about not even voting if you say that crap enough. If McCain wants to win, he needs to motivate his base to vote: the conservatives. So far, he has not. Only Palin has done that, and that is not enough.

I think Obama and his beliefs will motivate the conservative base to vote.

84 realwest  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:17am

re: #62 JustMyView
Not according to the comment at #37 - Gallup had Kerry way up in the polls.
And what to make of the difference between Zogby and Gallup, other than Z polls likely voters and Gallup polls registered voters?

85 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:20am
86 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:25am

re: #67 MandyManners

It's still there!

That's weird. All I see is a vertical gray line (if I click on that, I can see the avatar, in your profile information. I see other peoples' avatars. What's up with that, Charles? Firefox 3.0.3.

87 Mr. Sandman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:36am

Actually, this Gallup tracking poll does not yet incorporate any post-debate interviews (they all occurred before the debate last night). As it is a 3-day tracking poll, it will be an approximately 1/3 post-debate sample in tomorrow's poll, and Sat. for a full post-debate sample. Though, at the least, this tracking poll suggests that the Ayers based attacks aren't impacting negatively on Obama as of yet (Rasmussen went down a bit for Obama, Gallup went up, so on balance we might estimate these attacks have not had a real impact one way or another).

88 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:47:44am

re: #75 JustMyView

Sincere question. What is it that makes you think Zogby is a more reliable pollster? Is there some kind of record you can point to? Again, serious question.

Zogby polls likely voters.

89 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:48:12am

For reasons I cannot quite figure out (but could guess), it looks as if Obama is going to be the next POTUS.

I can only hope that this is not true, but if it is, that he is able to do everything he claims to be able to do per foreign policy, and isn't able to succeed in any of his domestic desires.

It is amazing however that after whining about how badly the Government has messed up the economy, that Obama can then suggest that it take over Education, Medical Care, Insurance, and tackle social security.

90 yma o hyd  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:48:28am

re: #20 Sharmuta

Obama 47%, McCain 45%

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

From that link:
" but Obama has the edge among independent voters. He leads McCain among independents, 48 to 39%."

This means, clear, plain and simple, that all eforst must go on changing the minds of independent voters - as many have said already on the thread downstairs.

91 Dahveed  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:48:42am

I think a lot of people will change their minds at the polling place. I got to believe there will be a lot of people that will compare the candidates and have an epiphany that 0bama is not the person qualified for the presidency.

92 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:48:55am

re: #66 jill e

With the middle name of Sidney, you'd have to.

:)

93 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:48:55am

Obama is trending downward in all of the other tracking polls.

Gallup is a Registered Voter poll while the others work off of Likely Voter models. Gallup shows sentiment swings, and sentiment (as we all know) is in Obama's corner.

I don't think McCain is done. I think that he may have done better last night than people assume because he may have made inroads with the swing voters. We will have to see.

Part of the media/Obama effort is to drive McCain supporters into a depressed state where they just don't vote. But as the numbers swing and things tighten, you will see sentiment follow.

Obama may have peaked and may have peaked early.

94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:00am

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

Were the babies regular or extra-crispy? That makes a difference, you know.

Was there a dipping sauce available? If so, what kind?

95 restitutor orbis  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:29am

At a recent family picnic, the election came up. about 10 of my relatives Bush-bashing Kerry-lovers all, said they were voting McCain. Their reasons:

-he's just not ready
-His questionable associates

Even Nobama's McCain as Bush tactic didn't seem to work with this crowd
The see McCain as a RINO, or at least a moderate

96 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:33am

re: #25 MrSnuggles

This does not actually include data from AFTER the debate, does it?

No, it's a daily poll based on a three-day moving average. The site says that almost all interviews for the three days worth of data reported today were collected before the debate.

97 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:35am

re: #27 astronmr20

Same as yesterday.

I'm gonna go ahead and call this gallup poll a fluke. fraud

Fixed.

98 Darwin Akbar  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:41am

Mark Steyn tries to buck up the troops (from the Corner):

Keep your sunny side up [Mark Steyn]


Republicans have cause to be disappointed by last night: As everyone says, Obama wins by not losing. He looks more and more as if he's already the president, while McCain prowling the stage seeking to "connect" looks more and more like Yosemite Sam after the dynamite* failed to go off.

Nevertheless.

Before everyone succumbs to a terminal case of inevitabilititis, it's worth remembering we've been here before. In the last months of the primary campaign, the press kept assuring Hillary fans that Obama's victory was inevitable and the shriller the media Obamaboppers got, the more bluecollar Dems sat on their hands. In the end all the King's horses and all the King's men had to drag the guy across the finish line. You couldn't replay his spectacular victory in slow-motion because it was already slower than any slo-mo technology ever invented.

So we already know there's a huge disconnect between the unstoppable Messianic force promoted by the media and the cooler appraisal by actual voters. What's happened since primary season? The Iraq surge (McCain's unique selling point) is a victim of its own success and has dwindled away to an irrelevant footnote, and the front pages are full of a supposed economic catastrophe which the crude rules of politics suggest any fool should be able to hang on the incumbent.

Yet Obama still can't open up a solid lead. After all, why would record numbers of viewers watch the vice-presidential debate if the election's already over?

Meanwhile, the supposedly damaged Republican brand is proving suprisingly resilient. I see one of the two New Hampshire seats that flipped blue in '06 may return to the red fold next month. Where's the blowout?

(*A lot of the dynamite is well past its sell-by date: Two references last night to Ronald Reagan negotiating with Tip O'Neill. No one remembers who Tip O'Neill is. McCain might as well have been evoking misty watercolor mem'ries of Talleyrand at the Congress of Vienna. Obama, by contrast, is all future - which is understandable, given his past.)

[UPDATE: A reader responds:

Listen, Mark, sunny side up is fine but this one is over easy.]

99 turn  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:43am

re: #42 jill e

Who here has been polled? Not me.

Back again .. hey I was going to ask the same question. I have never ever been polled politically so what are the odds of someone of my political position being polled as well? I have no faith in these polls and the uncertainty makes up nearly the difference in many of them. Plus as some have pointed out here these polls can be statistically rigged one way or another, and knowing how the MSM is so in the tank for the O they surely must be rigged in his favor. My neighbor cheered me up a bit the other day, he thinks these polls will swing back in McCain's favor right before the election because these biased pollsters will have to try and gain back some semblance of credibility before the actual numbers come out in the election.

100 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:49:53am

re: #88 MandyManners

Zogby polls likely voters.

And he was the only one that got it right in '04.

101 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:02am

re: #88 MandyManners

Zogby polls likely voters.

So they ask people how likely they are to vote, then throw out the ones that say, "not likely"?

102 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:15am

re: #75 JustMyView

Sincere question. What is it that makes you think Zogby is a more reliable pollster? Is there some kind of record you can point to? Again, serious question.

The proof is in the pudding.

103 AmeriDan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:19am

re: #86 Ward Cleaver

I can see it.

104 vagabond trader  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:24am

So, these voters actually believe the Obama is going to save our economy with higher taxes and bigger government? Astounding!

105 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:30am

BTW, that 8% in 2004 which I quoted earlier, was Likely Voters...

106 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:33am

re: #79 Ozark Mountain Daredevil


LOL. Love it - as long as it is an option. It is for that reason why I do not use e-mail to conduct business. It is all snail mail for me. Besides, if you really want to insult someone, or push a point home, you need to spend time crafting your correspondence. E-mail makes people to flippant.

107 J.S.  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:50:49am

re: #57 vxbush

Any poll which does not include a section discussing methodology (that's how the poll was actually conducted) is -- once again -- not worth the paper it's printed on. It's garbage...(or useful only for partisan spin).

108 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:51:16am

re: #101 Ward Cleaver

So they ask people how likely they are to vote, then throw out the ones that say, "not likely"?

Maybe the first question is whether a person will vote. If not, the call is terminated.

109 dmjung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:51:17am

Do they not poll anyone in Texas?

110 vxbush  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:51:27am

re: #71 calvin coolidge

McCain in a landslide. I have never know myself to be wrong.........ever.
(If you don't count my predictions for the Cubs in '69, '84, '98, '03, and '07, '08)

Gee. I don't know how to take that.

Now I wish christheprofessor was here, because I have a question that I can't answer wrt statistics:

When they give the margin of error as plus or minus 3 points, which does that mean? Let's say the poll gives the numbers as Candidate A, 60%, candidate B, 40%. Then which of the following is true:

A. Candidate A's actual percentage is somewhere between 57% and 63% AND candidate B's actual percentage is somewhere between 37% and 43%

B. Candidate A's actual percentage is somewhere between 58.5% and 61.5% AND candidate B's actual percentage is somewhere between 38.5% and 41.5%

C. If you kept one candidate's percentage unchanged, then the other candidate's percentage can change plus or minus 3 points

I think it means A, but can't recall.

111 realwest  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:04am

re: #89 WrathofG-d
I hope he CAN'T do everything he wants to do in foreign policy. I'm not thrilled with invading a nuclear armed Pakistan, especially as no government has been able to wrest control of the NW Frontier provinces in oh 500 or so years now.

And I sure don't want Obama running things if Israel gets attacked by Iran or by anyone else for that matter.
But CHARLES is right; McCain has to want it and as I said last night, during the debate, McCain whiffed on several fastballs right down the middle.

112 calcajun  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:06am

Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? It's not over until we say it's over!

113 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:07am

re: #100 newsjunkie_ky

And he was the only one that got it right in '04.

I tend not to follow polls but, I recall being bummed out the first week of November 2004.

114 turn  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:25am

re: #44 missviolin

I think more people are going to vote for McCain but they are afraid to say it out loud. It's not cool.

Kind of why I believe we don't see many McCain posters in people's yards ... they fear they will just be ripped out by the Obomatons.

115 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:31am

Drudge's poll for the debate
MCCAIN 66% 190,663
OBAMA 30% 85,665
NEITHER 4% 12,566

Total Votes: 288,894

116 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:35am

re: #112 calcajun

Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? It's not over until we say it's over!

TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!

117 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:38am
118 Born_to_lose  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:40am

Ok, so, like, I want to get mad about this, but honestly, I have this odd, haunting suspision that I really should NOT worry about these numbers. I mean, I feel like it's kinda a win-win situation right now (or maybe I am just sickeningly, OVERLY optimistic about this). basically, if McCain wins then, ok, we know that there will be stability (or hope, whatever you're feelings are on him) and we will know that we have someone with experience and integrity in the White house. Now, IF Obama wins this one, trust me, I really think this will be the LAST time we see a liberal dem in the White House, AND (and maybe, again this is me being WAY too optimistic) I think that within 2 years, there will be some kind of shift, maaayyyybe a military coup (lol!) and Obama will be forced to step down for, simply put, treating the US like a bunch of lab rats, or toddlers that needed some kind of weird collective time out...so yeah, we will just have to see, but I am starting to feel less anxiety over all of this (and that is saying a lot).

119 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:42am

re: #101 Ward Cleaver

So they ask people how likely they are to vote, then throw out the ones that say, "not likely"?

They go by voting pattern in the past. Did they vote in '04, primary, etc.

120 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:42am

re: #6 jill e

How McCain could have won the election last night. Promise the American people that if he is elected, he will appoint Rudy Giulliani as Attorney General and his first order of business will be to investigate, indict and prosecute all those involved in any wrong doing in the sub-prime mortgage debacle, from Wall Street, to K Street to Main Street.

If won't happen. This is PURE PROOF that all of these senators and other politicians are in the bag for special interest, big business and the financial sector.

Both Obama and McCain voted FOR the bailout. Mr. "I never took earmarks" ran back to Washington, spent almost a week there, and what did he do, he went for the bill, lock, stock and earmarks. He got his marching orders while he was in town.

I don't know when we are going to realize that the deck is stacked and we have lost control. We have NO SAY in any of this anymore.

How does it feel to have that shaft up your rear?

121 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:52:49am

It's not that Zogby polls likely voters alone, it's that his polls have been closest to the actual results.

And, no. I won't provide a link for JMV. Go ahead and look up his 2000 and 2004 results yourself as I'm not in the mood to spoon feed today.

122 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:04am

re: #115 seekeroftruth

Drudge's poll for the debate
MCCAIN 66% 190,663
OBAMA 30% 85,665
NEITHER 4% 12,566

Total Votes: 288,894

Huh? 190k to 85k?

123 ladycatnip  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:21am

It now comes out that Obama is/was a member of the New Party, an ultra leftist group whose agenda is to push America into socialism.

#89 WrathofG-d

It is amazing however that after whining about how badly the Government has messed up the economy, that Obama can then suggest that it take over Education, Medical Care, Insurance, and tackle social security.

Which goes to his being a New Party member along with being a dem. If he does reach the WH, then I hope to God that both the Senate and the House are republican.

124 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:23am
125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:37am

re: #116 MandyManners

TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!

THEY TOOK THE BAR!

126 Darth_K  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:44am

#6:

Yea I listen to O'Reilly's radio show too. Please have the courtesy to give credit when lifting what he says word for word.

Nonetheless, I agree, Giuliani would make a formidable attorney general.

127 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:47am

re: #124 taxfreekiller

Charles

Good idea, get it on the record of how many lgf's posters have ever been polled.

Yes ______

No _________

my guess is 80% have not or higher
could be 95% have not, its like that these polls

I used to get polled by Zogby.

128 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:48am

re: #121 Sharmuta

It's not that Zogby polls likely voters alone, it's that his polls have been closest to the actual results.

And, no. I won't provide a link for JMV. Go ahead and look up his 2000 and 2004 results yourself as I'm not in the mood to spoon feed today.

You're beautiful when you're mad.

129 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:53:53am

re: #89 WrathofG-d


I can only hope that this is not true, but if it is, that he is able to do everything he claims to be able to do per foreign policy, and isn't able to succeed in any of his domestic desires.


I think he'll have no problem implementing his foreign policy. His domestic agenda will be a different story. I think his socialized medicine plan is unlikely to pass but his other entitlement programs might make it. I think it's likely that many entitlement programs will be put in place as unfunded mandates. Once in place they're very tough to remove or properly fund (see Social Security). He'll have no problem reversing the Bush tax cuts and increasing taxes in general. McCain will even vote for those tax hikes.

130 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:54:10am

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THEY TOOK THE BAR!

What am I?

A GIANT ZIT.

131 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:54:23am

re: #97 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Blaming Gallup doesn't help.

They're not perpetrating fraud. Their whole business is predicated on making the most accurate readings possible. They want to get this right.

Energy spent blaming Gallup is better spent elsewhere.

132 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:54:36am

re: #128 MandyManners

You're beautiful when you're mad.

Aww- thank you.

And BTW- anyone can sign up to get Zogby's online poll.

[Link: interactive.zogby.com...]

133 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:54:44am

re: #113 MandyManners

I tend not to follow polls but, I recall being bummed out the first week of November 2004.


I heard Rush say today that algore was up by 11 at this time in '02. Not sure which poll he cited.

134 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:54:48am

re: #74 Ward Cleaver

We Sarah may to have to drag him, kicking and screaming, into the White House.


fixed

135 jwb7605  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:13am

re: #124 taxfreekiller

Charles

Good idea, get it on the record of how many lgf's posters have ever been polled.

Yes XXXXXXX
No _________

my guess is 80% have not or higher
could be 95% have not, its like that these polls


I get polled frequently (although, less frequently recently).
I don't think I've ever been polled by Zogby (I always ask who is conducting the poll)

136 descolada9  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:16am

Boring debate last night, crap poll today. God, let this election be over already! the only question is, do I go to Houston to make money or do I go to Toronto to ask for asylum?

137 Dustoff-507  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:21am

re: #36 JustMyView


STOP speaking for people you "don't" know!

138 vagabond trader  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:27am

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

lol, I actually remember that little ditty.errr, uh, ummm, sounds racist to me.

139 AMER1CAN  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:30am

Get this,,,, the election is not going to be won by a picture of someone not named Obama standing on the American flag, or someone not named Obama giving hateful sermons, etc etc etc. And what happened 20 or 30 or 40 years ago doesn't mean a thing. The hoards have a "what have you done for me lately" mentality.

The hoards (not a bad thing) focus on a few key issues they can understand: economy, security, immigration, education, healthcare, social security, national debt.

That's your bread and butter topics.

McCain has failed to connect with the hoards. He's terrible at the debates, and a lot of his positions (like voting for that 700billion bail out) are pathetic and don't help. I think McCain is finished. Unless something dramatic happens in the next few weeks, Obama will be the next president. McCain comes across as too stuffy and old. A Romney Palin ticket could have been more marketable. McCain just isn't the guy to get the job done. I do hope I'm wrong.

140 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:52am
141 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:53am

re: #111 realwest

As for Pakistan, we should remove their nuclear capability. (if Wrath were POTUS) using covert operations. (and if we could blame it on Iran, even better)

As for McCain, you & Charles are right. There is probably good reason why McCain has NEVER won for POTUS, in the general or primary. How he got this far is still mind boggling for me. As I see it, McCain isn't going to win by showing how great McCain is (as I don't think he is) but instead by showing exactly what it is that Obama says he is going to do, and who he is.

But that being said, I think the general (we want to be Europe) American public, wants a left-wing, radical, no-experience, guy with charisma. Our elections have become nothing more than a "hate the other guy", popularity contest...and Obama is just prettier than McCain.

142 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:54am

re: #104 vagabond trader

That is because they have been told the evil rich people and greedy corporations are out to get them and are making their lives suffer. So, by "getting" them, it will bring justice to all. Unfortunately, what they do not tell these simpletons is that rich people (what they call rich) and greedy corporations (their word, not mine) are the ones that make the new jobs, keep the old jobs and make our country run. Place more burdens on the business sector at a time when the business sector is hurting is not only stupid, but right now, with the mess on Wall Street, it is suicidal. I hope they are all smiling and happy about socking it too the rich people as we fly off the cliff.....at least it will be "fair" when we all crash down at the bottom

143 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:02am

re: #51 Sharmuta

I think he'd be proud to serve this country. You severely misunderstand our side if you think we're just after money and dismiss that we want to keep America great, strong and free.

I don't doubt at all that there are many who would be honored to serve in a McCain administration. I just doubt that Giuliani would want to become Attorney General at this stage of his life. He has other fish to fry. it's a guess. Just how I see things.

144 jill e  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:10am

If you had purchased $1,000 of Delta Air Lines stock one year ago, you would have $49 left.

With Fannie Mae, you would have $2.50 left.

With AIG you would have less than $15 left.

But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drunk all the beer, then turned in the cans for aluminum recycling REFUND, you would have $214 cash.

Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

145 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:12am

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THEY TOOK THE BAR!

My wife took a call from a pollster Tues.. afternoon.
And we're in Utah for cryin out load!
Strictly an " O" Or Mc Cain poll!

146 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:23am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No _______

I was polled on LGF- does that count? ;)

147 turn  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:29am

re: #50 lawhawk

I'm not going to wait for Zogby, Rasmussen, or Gallup to figure out their polls.

I'll wait to see what the only poll that matters says on the evening of November 4 - as our votes get tallied (and hopefully counted correctly). I wont bother watching the exit polls either - except to say that everyone should be sure to vote and don't take anything for granted.

All these polls have something that the actual general elections do not - bias and sample size and all kinds of other factors included in skewing results. Gallup is an outlier here compared to the RCP averages; it could be the result of anything from who they asked, when in the past two days they called, etc., but it may not actually be wrong. They quite possibly got to the results that they wanted.

Thanks lawhawk, I feel better already. Like I said the pollsters will need to regain their cred before the actual vote. I see Instapundit is linking to you quite a bit, congratulations. I figure you must have met him at some point.

148 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:29am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No _______

Not I.

149 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:36am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No ___X____

150 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:42am

re: #130 MandyManners

What am I?

A GIANT ZIT.

I was at a play last week and sat next to "Niedermayer." I spent more time going over lines from Animal House in my head than watching the play.

151 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:56:45am

re: #122 MandyManners

Huh? 190k to 85k?

That's where his poll stood as of 9:30 this morning. I sent it on to someone who was getting depressed about all these stupid polls.

152 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:00am

re: #143 JustMyView

And I think you have a skewed way of seeing things.

Read the Republican platform yet?

153 eolon  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:01am

I, for one, welcome our new Muslim overlord.


Best Regards,


e

.::.

154 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:08am

It's registered, not likely voters. The polls with likely voters are much closer. Still, McCain is tumbling and better snap out of it soon.

Things don't look good, but I'm not giving up until NBC declares the race for Obama at 4 pm on Election Day.

155 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:09am

re: #131 Cognito

I don't waste one milligram of energy thinking about Gallup, I just ignore them.

156 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:13am

re: #146 Sharmuta

Hell, I can't even get a date.

157 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:43am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No _______

Twice

158 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:45am

re: #152 Sharmuta

And I think you have a skewed way of seeing things.

Read the Republican platform yet?

Does it have pictures?

159 Dahveed  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:50am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No _______

Not polled.

160 JHW  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:52am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes ___X__

No _______

161 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:57:55am

Well, Limbaugh started his show today, while commenting on last night's debate, that "we will need to drag McCain over the finish line."

I think it's time to start working hard ourselves on getting McCain and Palin to look good and to expose Obama and his cronies for what they really have been doing,

Hmmmm... Can LGF and/or the Pajama Media bunch start their own 503 and begin making TV ads and stuff? Or is it to late to start a new 503?

162 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:00am

re: #158 MandyManners

Does it have pictures?

LMAO!

164 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:04am

re: #144 jill e

If you had purchased $1,000 of Delta Air Lines stock one year ago, you would have $49 left.

With Fannie Mae, you would have $2.50 left.

With AIG you would have less than $15 left.

But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drunk all the beer, then turned in the cans for aluminum recycling REFUND, you would have $214 cash.

Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

I do both. Oddly enough, my 401 hasn't suffered of late, either.

165 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:07am

re: #150 Creeping Eruption

I was at a play last week and sat next to "Niedermayer." I spent more time going over lines from Animal House in my head than watching the play.

The real McCoy?

166 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:10am

re: #123 ladycatnip

The fact that McCain refuses to address how blatantly socialist Obama is, or distance himself from Bush (who Obama really believes he is running against) shows to me that McCain really just doesn't want to win.

167 redmonkey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:32am

If you look at [Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

you could see polls from +1 to +6. Only Gallup is 11.

Any way I am in pessimist mode

168 SpartanWoman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:43am

As I've repeatedly said (to many LGF sceptics) Gallup has been completely infiltrated by Princeton libs. It may as well be the NYTimes

169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:54am

re: #153 eolon

I, for one, welcome our new Muslim overlord.


Best Regards,


e

.::.

I just picked up a sweet deal on a Freehold from this guy named Farnham.

170 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:55am

re: #151 seekeroftruth

That's where his poll stood as of 9:30 this morning. I sent it on to someone who was getting depressed about all these stupid polls.

Was there a RON PAUL option? Isn't it accurate without one.

171 addison  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:55am

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

If Obama wins, I suspect quite a bit of buyers remorse to follow.

You think that but I imagine the basic simplistic excuse will be that whatever trouble befalls a President Obama is a result of the "execrable" George W. Bush Administration that preceded.

172 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:31am

re: #154 JammieWearingFool

I thought they already declared Obama the winner? Chuck Todd calls the race for Obama

173 Rednek  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:39am

The polls are crap.

'02 and '04 come to mind.

174 Celtic Templar  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:42am

re: #23 Ringo the Gringo

If Obama wins, I suspect quite a bit of buyers remorse to follow.

They'll be looking to Jeb Bush to save them ... Could be funny, if it weren't so tragic.

175 TN_Vol  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:45am

re: #144 jill e

If you had purchased $1,000 of Delta Air Lines stock one year ago, you would have $49 left.

With Fannie Mae, you would have $2.50 left.

With AIG you would have less than $15 left.

But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drunk all the beer, then turned in the cans for aluminum recycling REFUND, you would have $214 cash.

Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.


I'm on board.

176 spypeach  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:56am

If McCain is truly trailing in the polls, then it's because of lack of enthusiasm from conservatives. We will vote for him but we don't want to talk about it.

177 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:58am

re: #136 descolada9

Boring debate last night, crap poll today. God, let this election be over already! the only question is, do I go to Houston to make money or do I go to Toronto to ask for asylum?

What's the matter with Amsterdam? That way when you return to the United States you'll feel right at home..
/

178 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:59:59am

Oh crap guys I was completely wrong...

Oct 14-16 Gallup in 2004 had BUSH ahead 52-44%

179 yesandno  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:10am

It ain't over till it's over...................

I don't care what polls say...................

I am going to the polls and voting for the right person...........

And Obama isn't in the running for that honor.

180 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:21am
181 Bos2112  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:27am

Did anyone hear this? Nancy Pelosi says congress may need to ADD to the package by the end of year! another 150 BILLION?!?!?!?. WTF? How are these Dems keeping a straight face?

182 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:30am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No ___X____

But, I am never home and if it says "unknown or blocked", they get to talk to my answering machine

183 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:32am

Not to make it even more dire, but these polls aren't counting the dead voters for Obomba, yet. Nor the stuffed ballots. I fear that the Obomba rats are going to be allowed to steal the election right out in the open. And if he wins, they'll be engaging in this sort of mischief for the next four years to squelch any opposition to Obomba. But only four years. He will be so despised within his first year that a second term will be a bad joke. It will be impossible to steal that many votes.

184 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:47am

re: #175 TN_Vol

I'm on board.

At 5:30pm...........*hickup*

185 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:00:54am

re: #112 calcajun

Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? It's not over until we say it's over!

Hmmmmm.... looks like MrSnuggles (who dinged this one) doesn't recognize a goofy, classic movie line when he sees one. :P

186 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:01:08am

re: #176 spypeach

If McCain is truly trailing in the polls, then it's because of lack of enthusiasm from conservatives. We will vote for him but we don't want to talk about it.

We seem to have misplaced the fire we felt after the Palin announcement.

Well- if we're not fired up about voting for McCain, perhaps we could at least get fired up about fighting against 0bama.

187 keithgabryelski  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:01:11am

re: #52 buzzsawmonkey

I do not participate in polls. I did once or twice--and found that the questions were phrased in ways that did not permit of a coherent or honest answer. Anyone who calls me trying to elicit polling information gets hung up on. And any party operative who calls me to ask how or for whom I'm voting--as some have--gets a lecture on the meaning of the term "secret ballot."

i've been called three times asked for my choice -- twice by campaigns and once by a local high-school kid claiming she was doing a class project.

None of them were "push-polls" of the sort you allude to (in the past I have received push-polls for local elections -- ugh).

188 AmeriDan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:01:38am

re: #126 Darth_K

#6:

Yea I listen to O'Reilly's radio show too. Please have the courtesy to give credit when lifting what he says word for word.

Nonetheless, I agree, Giuliani would make a formidable attorney general.

She did give an HT to where she found it. She did not claim ownership.

Maybe you could use the reply or quote feature here to avoid us having to scroll up for over a hundred comments?

189 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:01:39am

re: #100 newsjunkie_ky

And he was the only one that got it right in '04.

Here's a rundown of who got what right in polling.

Zogby was close, but he wasn't alone. The results might actually surprise.

190 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:01:55am

re: #165 MandyManners

The real McCoy?

Yup. He runs/ran a restaurant here and must still be active in acting. My wife and I saw him in a play about Leopold and Loeb.

191 MrSnuggles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:02:11am

re: #131 Cognito

You are right, but you are also wrong. At this point in the election, polls exist not to reflect reality but to impact reality. As the election gets closer the polls will become more realistic but that is not without impact from the phony polls that we are seeing now.

192 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:02:54am

re: #170 MandyManners

Was there a RON PAUL option? Isn't it accurate without one.

LOL Maybe that's why the polls are all off kilter!

193 realwest  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:03:13am

re: #59 Charles
Um Charles - according to your link this was NOT a post debate poll - it was done prior to the debate last night.
Next time Gallup publishes one, it'll have Obama up by 17%.
And it's manifest to me that NO ONE from the McCain campaign has been reading us; not bragging, but you and commenters out here yesterday had the right tactics for McCain to use: really tie Obama into Fannie/Freddie; the CRA (which created the Sub-Prime mortgage market in the first place) and ACORN; and his weakness in foreign policy especailly regarding Israel and Pakistan.
John McCain did not appear to me to be a candiadate who WANTED to win that "debate" last night.

194 redmirabai  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:03:30am

re: #44 missviolin

I live in Seattle, and I would put up signs and stickers, but I'm afraid I'll get a rock through a window, or have my windshield broken; other people don't want any McCain stuff on their lawns because they fear being targeted. There are BHO signs everywhere; at the same time, co-workers identify themselves as for McCain, like we're a secret society in hostile territory.
Which I guess it is.

195 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:03:52am

re: #190 Creeping Eruption

Yup. He runs/ran a restaurant here and must still be active in acting. My wife and I saw him in a play about Leopold and Loeb.

A comedy?

*whack*

196 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:00am

re: #144 jill e

If you had purchased $1,000 of Delta Air Lines stock one year ago, you would have $49 left.

With Fannie Mae, you would have $2.50 left.

With AIG you would have less than $15 left.

But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drunk all the beer, then turned in the cans for aluminum recycling REFUND, you would have $214 cash.

Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Jill, do you post anything that is of you own composition? You just keep clipping and pasting and not even attributting the original authors. That's not right.

197 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:03am

re: #189 lawhawk

Here's a rundown of who got what right in polling.

Zogby was close, but he wasn't alone. The results might actually surprise.

Interesting. Any results from Pew lately?

198 Inquisitive  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:23am

re: #24 Typicalwhitey

Ok lets look at this.

Zogby Obama +2
Hotline Obama +1
Rassmussen Obama +6
Battleground Obama +4

Gallup Obama +11

Come on


Gallup just hopes if they say it enough.....it will come true. After studying a few of polls the other night and how they are done....I think they are trying to convince people to vote for "that one". They are hoping that by making him look like he is winning then some of the undecided will look at these polls and say well if so many people think he is the best then I will go with the pack and vote for him, also. What you would maybe call a "push poll". ......... That is just my view on the whole polling issue.

199 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:33am

re: #192 seekeroftruth

LOL Maybe that's why the polls are all off kilter!

Could be.

200 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:33am

My belief is that the 15 page "contract" the two campaigns made before the debate even started ensured that the American electorate lost the debate last night.

Debate contract I'd like to see:
The candidates will discuss each issue between themselves for a 10 minute maximum for each issue. The debate moderator will step in when he sees fists being formed.
Immigration
National Security
Welfare
War on Terror
Russia
Iran

201 NC State of Mind  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:35am

re: #189 lawhawk

Here's a rundown of who got what right in polling.

Zogby was close, but he wasn't alone. The results might actually surprise.

Zogby had Kerry pulling ahead just days before the election. John Zogby posted a letter saying he thought he saw a trend. More like he tried to creat one.


To be fair to Gallup, they did have Mac up 54-44 in a one day poll back in September.

202 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:53am

re: #191 MrSnuggles

You are right, but you are also wrong. At this point in the election, polls exist not to reflect reality but to impact reality. As the election gets closer the polls will become more realistic but that is not without impact from the phony polls that we are seeing now.

No doubt there are phony polls -- push polls, party polls, and all the rest. But Gallup uses sound methods, and like I said, their whole company lives and dies by the accuracy of their polling. Not just on politics, but on all sorts of data, every day of the year.

203 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:04:57am

Here is the note I just sent to the McCain campaign:

Senator McCain, why are you not doing everything you can to keep Obama out of the White House? To many, it appears you are giving it up to this two-bit Chicago socialist.

I don't get it.

Many of us are volunteering at your HQ around the country, taking time away from our families and businesses. Many of us talk to our freinds and neighbors and undecided voters on your behalf. We try to buck up so many downright discouraged GOP voters.

Sir, many are discouraged because you show more fight against your party than you do against a man who would destroy all that America stands for.

For heaven's sake, this is not a debate on the Senate floor. This is war.

Thank God for Governor Palin. She's the one out there doing the necessary fighting for us on the national scene. I suggest you do the same.

You made your reputation as a tough American hero - which you undoubtedly are.

Well, sir, it's time to fight your biggest fight yet - for the future of the United States. The country you said you fell in love with while in the Hanoi Hilton for so many years.

Will you put "Country First" and DO EVERYTHING YOU POSSIBLY CAN to keep Obama away from the Oval Office?

America is counting on you.

If you put everything into this fight and annihilate Obama, you will be seen as the man who saved this country from socialism.

If you put everything into this fight and lose, no one can fault you. You will have done everything you could

However, if you keep on this meandering path of not wanting to take on this punk when you meet him face-to-face - and yes, I call him a punk for what he wants to do to this county - then Americans can and WILL fault you as they rightfully should for contributing to the downfall of the United States.

The stakes are that high.

Thank you.

I know it was harsh and perhaps overly dramatic.

I do believe McCain can win this. But as I said, he has to put everything he's got into it.

204 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:02am

re: #194 redmirabai

I live in the most conservative part of the Phoenix area in McCain's home state, and I will not put anything political on my car...the last time I did that, a Bush 2000 sticker, my car got keyed.....so, sorry John, just a simple US flag is all that will adorn my car

205 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:09am
206 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:12am

re: #103 AmeriDan

I can see it.

I can see it in IE7, but not in Firefox 3.0.3. If I right-click on the gray line in Firefox, then select "View Image", I get a "File not found" page.

207 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:12am

re: #194 redmirabai

I live in Seattle, and I would put up signs and stickers, but I'm afraid I'll get a rock through a window, or have my windshield broken; other people don't want any McCain stuff on their lawns because they fear being targeted. There are BHO signs everywhere; at the same time, co-workers identify themselves as for McCain, like we're a secret society in hostile territory.
Which I guess it is.

I was having dinner with a guy the other night who related a story about a neighbor of his who put up a huge McCain sign. It was vandalized. The next day he put up another with an attached note that said that every time someone damaged his sign, he was going to donate $100 to the campaign.

208 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:30am

The Gallup poll is notoriously volatile and unreliable.

209 Irish Rose  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:39am

OT lizards, but.... does anyone know if the LGF comment widget is still available? And how the @#$@ do I make it cooperate with Blogger?

210 Charles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:39am

re: #193 realwest

Um Charles - according to your link this was NOT a post debate poll - it was done prior to the debate last night.

Yeah, I changed the title as soon as I realized that.

211 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:45am

re: #195 MandyManners

A comedy?

*whack*

. . . because it is such a hilarious topic.

212 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:47am

Schumer rips Chamber of Commerce

DSCC Chairman Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) came out swinging Wednesday against the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, saying the business lobby was no longer nonpartisan and “has turned into a wing” of the GOP.

In a press conference at Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) headquarters, Schumer said the path and pattern of the contributions indicate that the Chamber is afraid of the Democrats winning the critical Senate threshold of 60 seats — a goal he said is within reach now more than ever.

Maybe if the donks were more business friendly and economically responsible, they would get more support.

213 Spellcheck  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:52am

Live feed from CNN (sorry) on John and Sarah's rally in Bethlehem, PA. Saw it posted on the PUMA site, hillaryclintonforum.net, and couldn't find a link to it on Fox.

Their bus is pulling in now.

Bethlehem Event

214 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:55am

re: #54 Ward Cleaver

Nor have we, and compared to the last election, it seems that there are far fewer phone polls.

/Maybe they couldn't find anyone who speaks English to do the job, or answer the questions.

215 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:05:57am

re: #89 WrathofG-d

For reasons I cannot quite figure out (but could guess), it looks as if Obama is going to be the next POTUS.

I can only hope that this is not true, but if it is, that he is able to do everything he claims to be able to do per foreign policy, and isn't able to succeed in any of his domestic desires.

It is amazing however that after whining about how badly the Government has messed up the economy, that Obama can then suggest that it take over Education, Medical Care, Insurance, and tackle social security.

Read his Blueprint for Change. Who the hell is going to pay for all those new Federal departments and progams? Provide every American Broadband access? Forgive student loans for public defenders? Support a Global Education Fund? Open America Houses in all Islamic Countries (fresh targets)? Add 65,000 soldiers and 27,000 Marines (back to 1989 levels?)? Create an Information declassification center? Recruit "hundreds of thousands" of teachers and principals? Provide pay raises for teachers and principals? Pay tuition for students going into teaching? Create a classroom corps? huh? Double funding for after school programs? Create 5 million green-collar jobs? Create a Cabinet level Climate Change position with Al Gore as head? Invest $10 Billion a year in clean technologies fund? Revitalize inner cities? Appoint director of Urban policy? Build a new system of levees in New Orleans? Invest $60 Billion in infrastructure? Create a Youth Service Corps? Expand Civilian Service Corps? (last two become federal employees for benefit purposes) Create a cabinet level position on Cyber-Security?

So. Where is all this $$$ coming from?

216 Charles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:06:10am

re: #206 Ward Cleaver

I can see it in IE7, but not in Firefox 3.0.3. If I right-click on the gray line in Firefox, then select "View Image", I get a "File not found" page.

Sounds like a cache problem. Try clearing the cache.

217 wright1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:06:15am

re: #20 Sharmuta

Obama 47%, McCain 45%

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

I have to say, when others become dismayed or down you are out there fighting the good fight - every time. I am impressed.

I also still have hope. It is easy to be a pessimist right now. But like most people with hope, I still think this is the one election where people talking to pollsters are not being candid.

218 Alouette  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:06:48am

The only poll that matters is the one on Nov. 4.

219 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:07:11am

From October 1 from Pew:

obama 49%
McCain 43%

220 MrSnuggles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:07:18am

re: #185 NomadOfNorad

Sorry, but that line has been used WAY WAY WAY too much over the last few days.

221 turn  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:07:28am

re: #124 taxfreekiller

Charles

Good idea, get it on the record of how many lgf's posters have ever been polled.

Yes ______

No _________

my guess is 80% have not or higher
could be 95% have not, its like that these polls


Hey, I like that idea. That way I could get some idea of how many people who so closely share my political and moral beliefs may actually be represented in these polls (oh and hey you trolls are excluded from that statement)

222 nacazo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:07:40am

Obama in last night's debate:

That's what we've been doing over the last eight years and that has actually made us more safe.

Does anybody care to explain what Obama meant?

Is he buying into Bush's arguments?

223 Shanimal1918  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:07:52am

re: #42 jill e

Who here has been polled? Not me.

I'm on the gallup panel but they only contact me once a month at most. I haven't voted in a gallup poll in the last couple of weeks.

224 realwest  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:07:52am

re: #141 WrathofG-d
Well the only disagreement I have with your post is the idea that we could use "Special Ops" to take Pakistans' nuclear arsenal.
Contrary to what Senator Obama apparently thinks, as disorganized politically as Pakistan IS, it's Military and the damned ISI aren't stupid - I'd bet aftet last nights debate - or certainly before January 20. 2009 should Obama win, we'd need the 82d Abn to grab those nukes, IF WE COULD FIND THEM.
As I said I agree with all of

As for McCain, you & Charles are right. There is probably good reason why McCain has NEVER won for POTUS, in the general or primary. How he got this far is still mind boggling for me. As I see it, McCain isn't going to win by showing how great McCain is (as I don't think he is) but instead by showing exactly what it is that Obama says he is going to do, and who he is.

But that being said, I think the general (we want to be Europe) American public, wants a left-wing, radical, no-experience, guy with charisma. Our elections have become nothing more than a "hate the other guy", popularity contest...and Obama is just prettier than McCain.

225 neocon hippie  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:05am

Lots can happen in the next four weeks.

We just don't know who the winner will be on 11/4.

226 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:09am

re: #212 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Schumer is also trying to create a tsunami of bad credit in student loans too. There's a reason that tuition costs have swelled - all too available federally subsidized student loans that hide the real costs to taxpayers and the students, and which are nothing more than a subsidy to colleges and universities across the country.

227 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:11am

re: #218 Alouette

The only poll that matters is the one on Nov. 4.

Word.

228 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:20am

re: #217 wright1

We have 5-7 million PUMAs on our side. There is reason to stay hopeful.

229 JHW  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:21am

re: #194 redmirabai

I hear and sympathize with you on that. I'm about 100 miles west of you, and it can be physically dangerous to support Republican candidates. Our state has a history of this, the IWW and Wobblies were big here and it led to bloodshed several times in the past.

230 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:33am

re: #217 wright1

I have to say, when others become dismayed or down you are out there fighting the good fight - every time. I am impressed.

I also still have hope. It is easy to be a pessimist right now. But like most people with hope, I still think this is the one election where people talking to pollsters are not being candid.

Yeah, she would have made a good soldier. No quit to her.......unlike some others that cut and run when things "look down".

231 shanester  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:41am

Tony Romo voted 8 times in this poll.

ACORN at work.

232 MrSnuggles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:41am

re: #194 redmirabai

I live about 10 miles north of Seattle in Snohomish county, there are several McCain signs in my neighborhood and even more Rossi signs. Even if McCain loses, at least Rossi is going to win, I'm pretty damn sure of that.

233 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:50am

re: #223 Shanimal1918

I'm on the gallup panel but they only contact me once a month at most. I haven't voted in a gallup poll in the last couple of weeks.

Well, get in there! GET POLED!

234 armytramp  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:52am

I don't know how the heck these pollsters do it. I spent over two hours on the phone yesterday at the Republican office making phone calls. Not one person I called would answer any questions. Most of the time I got answering machines, and the only people I got on the phone refused to answer even a single question.

Granted I was calling during the day when most folks are out. I just left messages on answering machine to support McCain/ Palin.

But in the experience of everyone making the calls, almost no one would answer any questions at all.

I am sure these polls are utterly worthless. The most we accomplished was striking wrong numbers from the list.

235 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:08:56am

re: #220 MrSnuggles

Sorry, but that line has been used WAY WAY WAY too much over the last few days.

There's such a thing as way too much?!?!? :D :D :D :D :D :D

236 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:19am

re: #204 Desert Dog

I live in the most conservative part of the Phoenix area in McCain's home state, and I will not put anything political on my car...the last time I did that, a Bush 2000 sticker, my car got keyed.....so, sorry John, just a simple US flag is all that will adorn my car


Three McCain signs out front on my farm.
6 dogs.
I DARE anyone to mess with my signs.
One word from me and my very, very loyal dogs will consider me in danger.
They better be extremely fast runners LOL

237 wright1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:22am

re: #222 nacazo

Obama in last night's debate:

That's what we've been doing over the last eight years and that has actually made us more safe.

Does anybody care to explain what Obama meant?

Is he buying into Bush's arguments?


Why is the argument about how we have been safe after 9/11 NEVER MADE?!?

238 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:31am

re: #233 MandyManners

Well, get in there! GET POLED!

Too much material there. Where to begin . . .?

239 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:34am

re: #57 vxbush

I can't find any breakdown of how many declared democrats vs. republicans are included in Gallup. They break it down too much between liberal, moderate, and independents. So I can't tell how they did their poll.

Grr.

I believe they are simply sampling the population. That is, there is no stratification based on political affiliation. If that's correct, that would mean that the results simply represent the views of the population.

240 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:54am

A poll about polling polls:

Have you been polled about polls?

Yes _____

No _____

Polling poll, polly polly poll, polled pollment poll pollesque, good golly miss polly.

Thank you.

241 SpartanWoman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:55am

re: #213 Spellcheck
Looks pretty good to me! I hope we get Pennsy

242 laZardo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:09:58am

re: #226 lawhawk

Unfortunately, that's not good news to someone who's likely to take up graduate studies Stateside while also starting from financial scratch.

243 AmeriDan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:10:07am

re: #156 MandyManners

Hell, I can't even get a date.

I'm free this weekend. ;)

244 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:10:22am

re: #237 wright1

Why is the argument about how we have been safe after 9/11 NEVER MADE?!?

I agree... It's a no-brainer winner for the GOP....

245 ladycatnip  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:10:32am

#126 Darth_K

#6:

Yea I listen to O'Reilly's radio show too. Please have the courtesy to give credit when lifting what he says word for word...

She did give credit if you read her post again - she HT'd Gary S. from the Anchoress, which happens to be a magnificent blog.

246 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:10:37am

re: #238 Creeping Eruption

Too much material there. Where to begin . . .?

0oops.

247 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:00am

I'll just stay depressed. Don't anybody dare come near me. :(

248 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:19am

re: #216 Charles

Sounds like a cache problem. Try clearing the cache.

Okay, I'll try that. It just seems weird that hers is the only one that doesn't display. It's almost... sinister.re: #231 shanester

Tony Romo voted 8 times in this poll.

ACORN at work.

After which he threw an interception in the end zone.

249 wright1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:27am

re: #228 Sharmuta

I wish we had more hard data on that but I accept what you say may be true.

250 nacazo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:28am

re: #237 wright1

Why is the argument about how we have been safe after 9/11 NEVER MADE?!?

Well McCain is trying to distance himself from Bush. But it seems that Obama is making that argument, I quote again from the Obamessiah:

That's what we've been doing over the last eight years and that has actually made us more safe.

251 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:29am

Glenn Beck says what was discussed last night, by both candidates, was the fact that "we are going to hell in a handbasket."

The only thing they were debating was on the size of the handbasket.

Spot on.

252 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:37am

re: #181 Bos2112

Did anyone hear this? Nancy Pelosi says congress may need to ADD to the package by the end of year! another 150 BILLION?!?!?!?. WTF? How are these Dems keeping a straight face?

Yep, and the dimocrats, including Obama last night, blame Bush for turning (non-existent) surplusses as far into the future as the eye could see into deficits.

Not a friggin' DIME gets spent without congressional approval.

253 jwb7605  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:11:42am

re: #216 Charles

Sounds like a cache problem. Try clearing the cache.

I had something similar happen on my local web site.
3/4 of my random photos came up as hash or an empty image.
Clearing the cache didn't help. I tried three times, before and after quitting FireFox.
I cleared one last time, and rebooted. That fixed the problem, and I have no idea why. It behaves a lot like FireFox doesn't really "clear the cache" completely until restart happens.

I've got my local site set as my home page, so I probably had gazillions of cached images, which I get at 100+ MB/sec locally.

254 Irish Rose  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:03am

re: #194 redmirabai

I live in Seattle, and I would put up signs and stickers, but I'm afraid I'll get a rock through a window, or have my windshield broken; other people don't want any McCain stuff on their lawns because they fear being targeted. There are BHO signs everywhere; at the same time, co-workers identify themselves as for McCain, like we're a secret society in hostile territory.
Which I guess it is.

I live in a wealthy liberal neighborhood where Obama signs pepper the yards as far as the eye can see.

I have an American flag on my pole, a McCain/Palin sign in my yard, a McCain bumper sticker on my car... and a Son in Service banner on the front door.

Bring it, bitches.

255 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:08am

On second thought, NJ doesn't charge a deposit on beer, so I've come out even on that. Although I do bring my own beer with me to Massachusetts then manage to get money back for recycling, so I come out drunk and a little bit richer.

256 JHW  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:15am

Sarah on Fox now.

257 Junior  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:18am

Algore was up 11 on Bush in 2000 at this point.

258 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:39am
259 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:43am

The only thing that is important is what happens on November 4. We can either fight or bail out and let a socialist (or worse) get into power.

McCain may not be our first or even best choice, but he has a tiger by his side with Governor Palin. Let's fight for the ticket.

260 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:43am

Anyone listening the huge cheering of Palin on Fox? This is Pennsylvania.

261 GunnerRobot  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:55am

A Gloom and Doom prediction. If Obama wins and the dems increase their seats in Congress, there will be no elections in 2012. There will be either an actual financial collapse or some other trumped up emergency that will "force" the elections to be suspended. Only a military coup will save this democracy.

262 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:57am

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

I don't know when we are going to realize that the deck is stacked and we have lost control. We have NO SAY in any of this anymore.

How does it feel to have that shaft up your rear?

It doesn't feel good at ALL!
Shamnesty issue, we all called, emailed, etc.
They didn't listen, they just put it on the back-burner.(like we'd forget and they'd try again later)
Bailout Rescue issue, we all called, emailed, etc.
They didn't listen. Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop trying, because I know they won't.

263 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:12:58am

They are going NUTS in PA for Palin right now!

264 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:13:31am

re: #147 turn

Thanks lawhawk, I feel better already. Like I said the pollsters will need to regain their cred before the actual vote. I see Instapundit is linking to you quite a bit, congratulations. I figure you must have met him at some point.

I've never met him, but I'm doing a better job promoting my stuff - and it gets noticed. Just got into the NY Post again as well - increased traffic begets more traffic. Ask Jammie sometime how that works - his blog collective has taken off in a big way because of exposure by Rush, Ace, Hot Air and Instapundit.

265 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:13:53am

this poll is not worth crap. I'd ignore it completely. Zogby's site has far more relevant pollling data.

266 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:04am

re: #216 Charles

Sounds like a cache problem. Try clearing the cache.

That did it Charles; thanks.

267 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:13am

re: #243 AmeriDan

I'm free this weekend. ;)

*blush*

268 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:17am

re: #237 wright1

Because that would tie McCain too closely to Bush, and his advisers are reluctant to do that.

269 CapeCoddah  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:30am

Good afternoon everyone.
I got polled yesterday, but it was a local news station, WBZ/Boston. I was actually surprised there were no impossibly worded questions. Could not find results for it on their website later, though.

270 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:44am

re: #247 unrealizedviewpoint

((((((unrealizedviewpoint))))))

271 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:48am

The Dude abides.

272 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:53am

re: #256 JHW

Sarah on Fox now.

Thank you, tuning in now...

273 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:14:54am

re: #249 wright1

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

274 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:15:06am

re: #237 wright1

Why is the argument about how we have been safe after 9/11 NEVER MADE?!?

Well.. you cannot accept credit for the good of the Bush administration and not the bad too.

275 Kenneth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:15:06am

McCain Refers to Obama as "My Opponent"

By Every Reporter Who Still Has a Job
Every Newspaper in America
Page 1 above the fold

Media Bubble, Oct. 8 -- John McCain's bid for the Oval Office suffered another stunning blow yesterday when the Arizona senator referred to Barack Obama, the 44th President of the United States, as "my opponent." The campaign-shattering remark came during a vicious, Hitlerian speech before an audience of drooling right-wing drones in one of those states in the middle, possibly rectangular.

"I believe that we should do things one way," McSame sneered, his shrunken, twisted body and hideous visage producing overwhelming revulsion in all sane people who beheld him. "But my opponent feels we should do things a different way."

In a comment appearing simultaneously on every single blog, newspaper site, and message board on earth, a number of private individuals completely unattached to the Obama campaign replied, "On behalf of concerned Christian conservatives everywhere, this is the sort of eliminationist rhetoric we've come to expect from the evil, cancer-riddled liar John McPain. We get it, old man: Obama opposes you, therefore he must be destroyed. This sort of disgraceful hate-mongering might be a big hit at your next cross-burning, assuming you live that long, but America knows better. The NVA should have finished the job, you miserable piece of garbage."

McLame lashed out at this levelheaded appeal to reason, firing back that his detractors "have every right to their opinion" and "raise some issues that, while I might take issue with how they're expressed, are worth considering." It is widely believed that McShame will have conceded the election by the time this story goes to press, hopefully followed by his gruesome death in a fire. Did I do good, Mr. Axelrod?

276 yesandno  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:15:17am

re: #133 newsjunkie_ky

I heard Rush say today that algore was up by 11 at this time in '02. Not sure which poll he cited.

That must have explained it all. Algore peaked two years after the election.

277 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:15:54am

re: #270 MandyManners

((((((unrealizedviewpoint))))))

thanks mandy

278 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:15:56am

re: #248 Ward Cleaver

Man, I screwed up that post.

279 Rednek  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:16:03am

Predict what will happen with a far left Democrat President/Senate/House in 2009:

-Hearings. Hearings. Hearings.

-Out of Iraq NOW!

-Amadinawhathisface snuggling in Camp David negotiating America's nuclear disarmament as a first step to promises of Iranian talks about future negotiations

-Nationalization of whatever suits Obama's fancy

-Fairness Doctrine 2.0

-

280 wright1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:16:27am

re: #257 Junior

Algore was up 11 on Bush in 2000 at this point.

People forget - memories are so short. Good point.

281 redc1c4  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:16:35am

re: #186 Sharmuta

We seem to have misplaced the fire we felt after the Palin announcement.

Well- if we're not fired up about voting for McCain, perhaps we could at least get fired up about fighting against 0bama.

who's we, sucker?

282 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:16:38am

She has a new speech and it is good.
Very good.

283 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:16:44am
284 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:16:44am

re: #236 Typicalwhitey

Three McCain signs out front on my farm.
6 dogs.
I DARE anyone to mess with my signs.
One word from me and my very, very loyal dogs will consider me in danger.
They better be extremely fast runners LOL

can I move my family in with you guys? ;)

285 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:17:02am

Hmmmm... Dow Jones is at +111 now...

286 JustMyView  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:17:20am

re: #84 realwest

Not according to the comment at #37 - Gallup had Kerry way up in the polls.
And what to make of the difference between Zogby and Gallup, other than Z polls likely voters and Gallup polls registered voters?

The table I linked to showed multiple poll results, not just one. During October 2004, the largest average difference between Kerry and Bush was about four points, and most days of the month, the average difference was smaller.

I'm not, by any means, defending the accuracy of this particular Gallup poll result over any other single result. The best thing to do is look at a variety of polls over many days and to study the results obtained by people who know how to aggregate the data across polls.

287 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:17:47am

I dislike it when Sarah Palin starts pandering. All that business about how "those predatory lenders took advantage of good Americans! Yeah!"

Well, no. That was a two-way street. Greed and stupidity high-fived each other as they passed.

288 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:16am

re: #284 Vergeltung

can I move my family in with you guys? ;)

You bet!

289 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:17am

re: #242 laZardo

State schools? Cost less than $45k-$50k that some privates are asking. The costs are insane, and affordability is out the window. Student loans drove up the costs of higher education and the answer to the affordability question is to drive up the number of people taking loans...

How exactly is someone supposed to make a living after going to college, plunking down $74k ($18.5 in federal loans annually), and then having to repay it in 10 years when your major is underwater basketweaving or literature? Even if you consolidate and extend to 30 years, you're saddling students with so much debt that it makes it difficult to ever get out of debt, let alone be in a position to buy a home, car, or having families. It's a recipe for disaster.

290 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:18am

re: #281 redc1c4

Thanks, red. I clearly used the wrong pronouns. I'm on a grammar gaffe binge today.

291 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:27am

So, who's the lady in light, light brown with the two rows of buttons on, standing between Palin and McCain?

292 yma o hyd  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:31am

re: #203 Florida Lady

Not over-dramatic - and only as harsh as needed.
There's a time when candidates/fighters/teams need to be told in the plainest words possible that losing is not an option.
Their supporters will only forgive a defeat if they have indeed fought to the last ounce of strength in their bodies/minds.
Losing 'nice' doesn't cut it.

293 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:32am

Otherwise, I should add, she's making a great speech.

294 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:54am

re: #287 Cognito

And many of us dislike it when you start shilling for the msm, so consider it even.

295 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:56am

re: #285 NomadOfNorad

Hmmmm... Dow Jones is at +111 now...

Sara Palin starts talking and the DOW goes up 111 points.... hmmm. : - )

296 NC State of Mind  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:18:59am

Bush was ahead of Gore at this point in all polls in 2000. CNN '00 poll.

A time poll in Oct had Bush up 52-36% and a report leaked that Clinton was upset over the outlook. By the time Nov. 1st rolled around, Gore had made up ground and lead in most polls by one or two. I remember Paul Begala and Ollie North discussing it on that terrible show Equal Time. Anyway, if Gore made up ground like that, McCain can too.

297 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:19:08am
298 beblebrox  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:19:10am

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I just picked up a sweet deal on a Freehold from this guy named Farnham.

nice. just re-read that about a year ago.

299 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:19:16am

re: #291 NomadOfNorad

So, who's the lady in light, light brown with the two rows of buttons on, standing between Palin and McCain?

That is McCains daughter

300 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:19:29am

re: #275 Kenneth

Good grief.

301 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:05am

re: #6 jill e

How McCain could have won the election last night:

Promise the American people that if he is elected, he will appoint Rudy Giulliani as Attorney General and his first order of business will be to investigate, indict and prosecute all those involved in any wrong doing in the sub-prime mortgage debacle, from Wall Street, to K Street to Main Street.

HT: Reader Gary at The Anchoress

The sub-prime mortgage system collapsed of its inherent faults, not because of any criminal wrongdoing. There was nothing illegal in what Congress did. It wrote laws requiring banks to somehow or other make their quotas when it came to lending to minorities. So that this would be possible without contravening regulations requiring prudence in lending, those regulations were scrapped.

There was nothing illegal in what the banks did. They threw the old standards of prudence overboard. They'd been ordered to do so, after all. The less imprudent ones shopped all their trash mortgages to Fannie and Freddie. The law said F&F had to buy the stuff.

There was nothing illegal in Barney Franks being literally in bed with officers of F&F, while defending their reputation and insisting they were just fine and there was no crisis. Even though they weren't and there was.

BF is, as an important Senate Democrat and a differently-oriented minority, beyond the reach of the law, so what might be illegal for anybody else, isn't illegal for him.

302 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:09am

re: #297 buzzsawmonkey

True. But she's not going to get votes by saying, "Hey, idiots, what did you think you were doing by going out and buying stuff you couldn't pay for?"

Maybe not. But that sort of thinking is the only way to claw our way out of this. We've discovered a massive rot in our system. Lotion won't help.

303 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:12am
304 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:15am

"He's not willing to drill for energy but he is willing to drill for votes"
The 'cuda on obambi.....OUCHHHHHH

305 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:34am

Damn it, I'm not getting any audio from the foxnews.com feed.

306 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:36am

re: #226 lawhawk

Thanks for that post lawhawk.

This seems to agitate something I was thinking yesterday.

307 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:42am

Rush is laying out the Ayers connection beautifully right now. He's covered Ayers' socialist education agenda, and how he's discussing John Murtaugh's article from City Journal ("The Weathermen Tried to Murder My Family") and an interview he gave to Maggie Gallagher. He believes that the relationship goes back to Bernardine Dohrn at Sidley Austin, where Michelle was an associate. I think it goes back even further, i.e. Morningside Heights, 1982-83.

308 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:20:45am

re: #299 Typicalwhitey

That is McCains daughter

Huh? That's his wife, Cindy.

309 jamsler  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:03am

From the previous thread; more relevant here.
Polls are bullsh*t.

linkey

310 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:14am

re: #295 seekeroftruth

Sara Palin starts talking and the DOW goes up 111 points.... hmmm. : - )

Either way, it's a darn sight better than it was yestiddy... at -100something. to -300something and beyond... :-/

311 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:15am

re: #302 Cognito

Maybe not. But that sort of thinking is the only way to claw our way out of this. We've discovered a massive rot in our system. Lotion won't help.

Putting the oversights back will work.
10 to 20 percent down.
No 125% mortgage loans.

That will fix this in the future.

312 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:26am

re: #30 MandyManners

Once again look at the Zogby 50 state poll. [Link: www.zogby.com...] That is the one that matters. If every last moonbat in CA votes for 0bama, 0bama only gets CA's electoral votes. Same with MA and the other "blue" states. Its the purple and red ones that matter. Shifts there will determine the ultimate outcome. Most of them have McCain leading, but not all. It will be interesting to see their next data update.

313 deepthroat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:29am

Many previous polls showed Ron Paul as winning.

That didn't happen.

Polls mean nothing.

314 XMarine  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:35am

IF, and that is a very big IF, the polls are correct, it gives evidence to the truth of what a very wise man once said, "Never underestimate the stupidity of the electorate." Compound that with the leftist MSM pounding their drums for an untested, inexperienced, naive, and disingenuous ratbag from the sewers of Chicago politics, and even more people will be fooled.

315 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:43am

re: #308 MandyManners

Huh? That's his wife, Cindy.

They are both there Mandy.

316 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:44am

re: #283 Sharmuta

CALL THE RNC AND TELL THEM TO FIGHT!

I called McCain HQ in Arlington, telling them essentially what I said in my post #203.

317 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:21:52am
318 realwest  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:03am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No ___X____

319 jwb7605  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:10am

re: #291 NomadOfNorad

So, who's the lady in light, light brown with the two rows of buttons on, standing between Palin and McCain?

Cindy McCain

320 redc1c4  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:17am

re: #215 Outrider

Read his Blueprint for Change. Who the hell is going to pay for all those new Federal departments and progams?
(mercy snipage occurs)
So. Where is all this $$$ coming from?

you, of course.

it's only fair that you pay more taxes........

/white smoke

321 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:19am

She's ripping a strip off of BHO.

322 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:32am

re: #287 Cognito

I dislike it when Sarah Palin starts pandering. All that business about how "those predatory lenders took advantage of good Americans! Yeah!"

Well, no. That was a two-way street. Greed and stupidity high-fived each other as they passed.

The populist crap grates on my nerves too, but people want to hear it rather than the sober reality that the government's policies to "affordable housing" are anything but affordable. Lenders are at fault. Borrowers are at fault, and Congress pushed both into making still more bad decisions - in statutes pushing affordable housing, lack of regulatory oversight of Fannie and Freddie, lawsuits by leftist groups claiming racism unless more affordable housing borrowing among minorities was extended, and even with pushing interest rates down - making ARMs seem even more attractive than they were despite the riskiness of such instruments at a time when rates could only go up.

323 realwest  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:43am

Gotta go eat folks! I hope to see you all down the road!

324 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:22:56am

re: #313 deepthroat


No reputable pollster ever showed Ron Paul at more than 2-3%.

325 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:01am

re: #224 realwest

My "use covert ops" statement is really a statement towards finding alternative, more intelligent ways of pushing our foreign policy agenda, than sending in an entire division (or whatever) to do so. I will admit ignorance as to how the actual armed forces work, their capabilities, etc.

My gut however, tells me that we could in one way or another figure out, if not where the nukes are, an alternative way of making them useless (remove those that know their codes, remove those that know where they are, remove scientists, remove replacement parts, etc.) I will leave the detailed specifics to the professionals. Overall, I just get the feeling that we are tending to be a bit too "blunt force" these days, and instead should outsmart our cave dwelling enemy.

But as to the campaign, it seems that what Obama is doing best is tying Bush's legacy (and the hatred that goes alone with it) to McCain as if there was no difference, and McCain isn't fighting back to state that "That is Bush, not McCain".

326 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:02am

re: #317 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. But to address the rot, the ticket has to win.

True. And sad.

What you're saying is that the American people must be tricking into right thinking.

327 deepthroat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:02am
How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No ___X____


________X________

328 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:04am

re: #279 Rednek

Odds on that Israel attempts to take out Iran between 11/8 and 12/31 if 0bama wins. I hate to say it, but I suspect that they will use nukes to do it too.

329 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:08am

re: #312 Shr_Nfr

Once again look at the Zogby 50 state poll. [Link: www.zogby.com...] That is the one that matters. If every last moonbat in CA votes for 0bama, 0bama only gets CA's electoral votes. Same with MA and the other "blue" states. Its the purple and red ones that matter. Shifts there will determine the ultimate outcome. Most of them have McCain leading, but not all. It will be interesting to see their next data update.

The post-debate polls should be interesting.

330 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:13am

re: #310 NomadOfNorad

Either way, it's a darn sight better than it was yestiddy... at -100something. to -300something and beyond... :-/

Yes it is !

331 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:22am

re: #298 beblebrox

nice. just re-read that about a year ago.

Hmmmm... is your car out front an automatic or a stick-shift? (And will it suddenly be the other when you come back from that involuntary time trip?)

332 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:33am

re: #315 Typicalwhitey

They are both there Mandy.

She was behing Gov. Palin.

333 beblebrox  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:38am

re: #323 realwest

Gotta go eat folks! I hope to see you all down the road!

what "folks" are you going to eat?

334 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:48am

re: #322 lawhawk

The populist crap grates on my nerves too, but people want to hear it rather than the sober reality that the government's policies to "affordable housing" are anything but affordable. Lenders are at fault. Borrowers are at fault, and Congress pushed both into making still more bad decisions - in statutes pushing affordable housing, lack of regulatory oversight of Fannie and Freddie, lawsuits by leftist groups claiming racism unless more affordable housing borrowing among minorities was extended, and even with pushing interest rates down - making ARMs seem even more attractive than they were despite the riskiness of such instruments at a time when rates could only go up.

Amen.

335 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:23:54am

re: #321 MandyManners

She's ripping a strip off of BHO.

May I suggest:

She's stripping BHO like a moose.

regards,
Alcee Hastings Faux-lksey Sayings and Colloquialisms, Pty. Ltd.

336 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:24:35am

re: #322 lawhawk

The populist crap grates on my nerves too, but people want to hear it rather than the sober reality that the government's policies to "affordable housing" are anything but affordable. Lenders are at fault. Borrowers are at fault, and Congress pushed both into making still more bad decisions - in statutes pushing affordable housing, lack of regulatory oversight of Fannie and Freddie, lawsuits by leftist groups claiming racism unless more affordable housing borrowing among minorities was extended, and even with pushing interest rates down - making ARMs seem even more attractive than they were despite the riskiness of such instruments at a time when rates could only go up.

In your humble (or professional) opinion. Can anyone be brought up on criminal charges for all this? The politicians, the lenders, the companies CEO, or are they all off the hook?

337 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:24:37am

I wanna' see Gov. Palin go up against BHO.

338 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:24:47am

re: #261 GunnerRobot

I don't think that will happen, no matter who gets elected. What might happen is Obama will be shown to be the fraud he is and when he is tested, he will fail. The economy is headed south either way, be in republican or democrat in charge. So, Obama will inherit a tanking economy and will foul up with his the domestic and foreign policy. That mean, starting on Nov 5th, we need to start looking for the guy (or gal) that will kick his sorry ass out of the White House in 2012. Even if we lose this election, they have them every few years, we will be back and back stronger if we lose.

339 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:24:57am

re: #261 GunnerRobot

A Gloom and Doom prediction. If Obama wins and the dems increase their seats in Congress, there will be no elections in 2012. There will be either an actual financial collapse or some other trumped up emergency that will "force" the elections to be suspended. Only a military coup will save this democracy.


Oh Lord..that maybe the most off-the-wall prediction this year..
"only a military coup will save democracy."
you sound just like what the Dems have been saying under Bush..

340 pat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:24:57am

re: #287 Cognito

I dislike it when Sarah Palin starts pandering. All that business about how "those predatory lenders took advantage of good Americans! Yeah!"

Well, no. That was a two-way street. Greed and stupidity high-fived each other as they passed.

Absolutely correct. The mandate to lend at 100% of equity or on value without consideration of income is what ultimately destroyed these institutions. Both candidates show every inclination to keep the mandates.

341 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:03am

Yes, Sarah's bringing up the culture of life issue! albeit briefly.

342 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:04am

"Tricked," that is, in 326.

343 Egfrow  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:09am

Got an action letter from Newt Gingrich via FreedomWatch. I'm pasting the test below.

Dear Fellow Conservative:

In this vital year when so much about the future of our country is at stake, I must tell you about the incredible work being accomplished by the conservative advocacy group "Freedom's Watch."

Let me be clear: Freedom's Watch is doing as much as any group in America to expose the liberal's failed policies. In fact, Freedom's Watch is doing such effective work that The Washington Post has called them "the conservative answer to MoveOn.org."

But they can't do it without all of our help. That's why I'm asking you to make the most generous contribution you can to support Freedom's Watch and help them complete their vital mission.

Because you are a true conservative, it would also be my pleasure to include a copy of my brand new DVD, "We Have The Power," if you make any contribution of $50 or more to Freedom's Watch in the next 24 hours.

In the last 90 days Freedom's Watch has run hard-hitting TV and radio ads spreading the word about the left's "Do Nothing" response to $4-a-gallon gas prices and exposing the hypocrisy of left-wing members of Congress who talk about "energy independence" but then block every effort to drill here in America.

Pound for pound, Freedom's Watch is doing as much as any group in America to fight with passion and effectiveness for our conservative values.

If Freedom's Watch wasn't having a serious impact, the Congressional leadership would just ignore them. But from the liberals' strong reaction, it's clear they've hit a nerve.

Perhaps the part I love the best about the good work being done by Freedom's Watch is that they're absolute experts when it comes to driving the liberals crazy!

Make no mistake, Freedom's Watch is having a major impact. But the fact is they can't do it alone. They urgently need your continuing support.

With so much at stake, I'm asking you right now to join with Freedom's Watch today by making an urgent contribution. And remember, if you can support Freedom's Watch with a contribution of $50 or more in the next 24 hours, I'll send you a copy of my new DVD, "We Have The Power."

I hope you agree that in these critical times, we need Freedom's Watch to stand up for our conservative principles and to fight back against the liberals pushing to take our country in the wrong direction. Today, I hope that you will stand with them in this noble endeavor.

Sincerely,


Newt Gingrich
Former Speaker of the
U.S. House of Representatives

344 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:19am

re: #204 Desert Dog

Nice of the liberals isn't it. We don't like your political position, so we will destroy your property. Looks like there are more than just the Bill Ayers terrorist types willing to be scum for 0bama.

345 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:21am

re: #215 Outrider

This is a huge area that I believe McCain is messing up on, and I 100% agree. Obama's answer would be "The Rich".

McCain should point out that "The Rich" to Obama is anyone making over $45,000 in some cases and $250,000 in others, and that either way it is inequitable.

346 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:25am

re: #323 realwest

Gotta go eat folks! I hope to see you all down the road!

Got some fava beans and chianti?

347 Irish Rose  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:35am

/I want the LGF widget, wah!

/pouts

348 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:25:57am

re: #333 beblebrox

what "folks" are you going to eat?

I have to get this book.

349 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:05am

Notice that last night, when McCain told everyone that Obama was the number two recipient of contributions from Fannie Mae (behind Dodd), Obama didn't dispute it. Wonder if any of the sheep picked up on that?

350 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:07am

re: #335 OldLineTexan

May I suggest:

She's stripping BHO like a moose.

regards,
Alcee Hastings Faux-lksey Sayings and Colloquialisms, Pty. Ltd.

LOL!

351 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:09am

re: #236 Typicalwhitey

I have three cats and they just don't care, sign or no sign

352 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:11am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No ___X____

353 JohnnyReb  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:17am

re: #133 newsjunkie_ky

I heard Rush say today that algore was up by 11 at this time in '02. Not sure which poll he cited.

I do remember that. He was double digits in the lead at this point. And then looked at what happened.

354 beblebrox  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:34am

re: #331 NomadOfNorad

Hmmmm... is your car out front an automatic or a stick-shift? (And will it suddenly be the other when you come back from that involuntary time trip?)


stick. always stick. or at least, that's what I left there.

355 laZardo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:35am

re: #289 lawhawk

State schools? Cost less than $45k-$50k that some privates are asking. The costs are insane, and affordability is out the window. Student loans drove up the costs of higher education and the answer to the affordability question is to drive up the number of people taking loans...

How exactly is someone supposed to make a living after going to college, plunking down $74k ($18.5 in federal loans annually), and then having to repay it in 10 years when your major is underwater basketweaving or literature? Even if you consolidate and extend to 30 years, you're saddling students with so much debt that it makes it difficult to ever get out of debt, let alone be in a position to buy a home, car, or having families. It's a recipe for disaster.

Damn. I've heard that industrial design jobs pay well...but the colleges that tackle it are [expletive deleted] expensive. One I'm interested in doesn't even have its own in-school financial aid system. =_=

356 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:38am

INDU at +144 nos

357 OldLineTexan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:43am

re: #339 HoosierHoops

Oh Lord..that maybe the most off-the-wall prediction this year..
"only a military coup will save democracy."
you sound just like what the Dems have been saying under Bush..

Do not trust the Gunner Robot. He is malfunctioning.

358 NC State of Mind  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:26:45am

re: #337 MandyManners

I wanna' see Gov. Palin go up against BHO.

2012?

359 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:27:01am

re: #344 Shr_Nfr

That's what happens when your heart is full of anger and hatred....it must suck living like that.

360 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:27:06am

re: #356 NomadOfNorad

PIMF! nos = now

361 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:27:12am

This is really interesting. From Gateway Pundit's post 5-7 Million Hillary Supporters Now Back McCain

One organization – PUMA, which stands for Party Unity My Ass – has more than 5 million members across the country, she said. Jamie Brazil, a longtime friend of the Clintons and the Rodham family, is serving as national director of Citizens for McCain. Brazil accompanied de Rothschild on her Scranton visit.

Brazil and his wife, Dee, will be godparents to Simon Rodham, son of Tony and Megan Rodham at his baptism Oct. 12 in Scranton. Tony Rodham is Hillary Clinton’s brother. The Clintons will attend the post-baptism brunch at the Brazil home in Scranton.

Clearly, the Clintons do not see support for McCain as a reason to cut ties with their longtime supporters.

362 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:27:34am

re: #337 MandyManners

I haven't ragged on Palin much because people here like her so much but she's a disaster and has been a drag on McCain's already weak ticket. She's a gimmick with no experience and no substance. She's a nice personality but not much else. McCain would have done much better to pick a serious VP with some experience. Preferably with economic credentials.

363 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:27:47am

re: #349 Ward Cleaver

Notice that last night, when McCain told everyone that Obama was the number two recipient of contributions from Fannie Mae (behind Dodd), Obama didn't dispute it. Wonder if any of the sheep picked up on that?

You are right. Obam in reply said 'I have not propped up Fannie Mae'... Did not deny being number 2 in taking money from them...

364 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:01am

Why doesn't McCain show this kind of energy in the debates? Egads!

365 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:03am

re: #336 Walter L. Newton

Politicians aren't going to be prosecuted for this unless there was criminality. Bad policy decisions aren't actionable.

Entities like ACORN could see RICO actions against them, but likely on unrelated tax evasion or voter fraud issues.

Company executives could see criminal charges if they commited fraud, tax evasion, or certain securities laws, and/or civil suits if they violated fiduciary duties.

366 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:11am

re: #336 Walter L. Newton

My local Congressman Faney Bank comes the closest. Given that his "wife" worked for FNM. It is a real conflict of interest to have that and then be on the committee doing legislation on stuff. Can you imagine the outcry of McCain heading a committee to regulate Budweiser?

367 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:19am

re: #353 JohnnyReb

re: #133 newsjunkie_ky

I heard Rush say today that algore was up by 11 at this time in '02. Not sure which poll he cited.

I do remember that. He was double digits in the lead at this point. And then looked at what happened.

Yea, I know exactly what happened! I saw the HBO movie Recount about how Bush stole FL!

/moonbat off

368 Gorgonzola  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:24am

Here's the complete graph of the 2004 elections:

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Shit.

369 laZardo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:25am

re: #355 laZardo

Clarification, by financial aid system, when I checked Academy of Art University they didn't have scholarships. And the Graduate financial aid well is DRY.

370 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:31am

re: #311 Typicalwhitey

Putting the oversights back will work.
10 to 20 percent down.
No 125% mortgage loans.

That will fix this in the future.

No, that won't fix it. What will is requiring proof of income, ability to pay the monthly mortgage, and getting rid of the freaking ARMs.

It doesn't matter if you pay 3%, 10%, or 20%, if you can't make the monthly mortgage payment, you have no business owning the home or condo.

371 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:28:47am

re: #297 buzzsawmonkey

True. But she's not going to get votes by saying, "Hey, idiots, what did you think you were doing by going out and buying stuff you couldn't pay for?"

Someone needs to.

372 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:04am
373 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:15am

re: #328 Shr_Nfr

This is how Israelis feel about Obama, and how Israelis with dual citizenship are voting..

I only wish that we Americans would get a clue ASAP.

374 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:18am

re: #349 Ward Cleaver

Notice that last night, when McCain told everyone that Obama was the number two recipient of contributions from Fannie Mae (behind Dodd), Obama didn't dispute it. Wonder if any of the sheep picked up on that?

CNN fact checkers said McCain lied. They said if you work up the figures CORRECTLY, McCain took over 166 thousand, much more than Obama.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

375 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:41am

re: #370 Honorary Yooper

No, that won't fix it. What will is requiring proof of income, ability to pay the monthly mortgage, and getting rid of the freaking ARMs.

It doesn't matter if you pay 3%, 10%, or 20%, if you can't make the monthly mortgage payment, you have no business owning the home or condo.

RACIST!

376 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:50am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

I haven't ragged on Palin much because people here like her so much but she's a disaster and has been a drag on McCain's already weak ticket. She's a gimmick with no experience and no substance. She's a nice personality but not much else. McCain would have done much better to pick a serious VP with some experience. Preferably with economic credentials.

I would have liked Romney, but here we are. She has energized the conservative base, though; people that still don't like McCain.

377 pat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:53am

ARMs should not be allowed on primary residential loans.

378 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:29:59am

Oh noes! I don't want to purchase bad mortgages!

379 Dahveed  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:30:02am

My email to the McCain campaign (perhaps ineloquent and somewhat disjointed):

Dear Sen. McCain:

Enough is enough already. We need to hear some passion from you if we are to have the right man for the job in the White House. I have contributed to your campaign and I'm feeling let down. Barack Obama is not qualified in foreign and domestic policy and has surrounded himself with some of the most extreme members of our society.

Please bring the fight to them.

380 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:30:02am

Toronto Firemen.

Thanks, WriterMom!

381 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:30:12am

re: #124 taxfreekiller

Charles

Good idea, get it on the record of how many lgf's posters have ever been polled.

Yes ______

No _________

Other ___________
my guess is 80% have not or higher
could be 95% have not, its like that these polls

382 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:30:41am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

I reluctantly agree, Killgore. I really like Sarah Palin, but those two interviews exposed her as not quite ready. I wish McCain would have picked someone else. That would have given Sarah 4 more years to get ready...I think that she has a bright future, but right now, I think she hurt McCain with independents and moderates. The right loves her, but the right was going to vote for McCain either way. As much of a bolstering she gave McCain from the right, I fear they may have lost some fence-sitters to Obama in the middle.

383 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:31:11am

re: #378 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Oh noes! I don't want to purchase bad mortgages!

I dont mind purchasing a bad mortgage. I just want to know when those dead beats get evicted so I can move in.

384 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:31:52am

re: #377 pat

ARMs should not be allowed on primary residential loans.

Why? It is part of the marketplace. Aren't we supposed to let the markets dictate what "should" or "should not" be provided?

385 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:31:55am
386 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:02am

re: #347 Irish Rose

/I want the LGF widget, wah!

/pouts

Good seeing you Irish Rose..how have you been and how is that son of yours doing?

387 redc1c4  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:04am

re: #337 MandyManners

I wanna' see Gov. Palin go up against BHO.

that wouldn't last long, and then she'd be called a racist for making him look like a fool............

388 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:08am

re: #42 jill e

Yup. I've been 'polled' if you want to call it that. Half a dozen times between the Dem and Rep conventions. What did they ask me? Nothing. As soon as I picked up the phone (and I have Caller ID), they disconnected. How do I know I was being polled? I have Caller ID, of course. The only thing I can't tell you is how I responded.

389 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:09am

re: #376 Ward Cleaver

Rudy wouldn't have been able to win a president but his scandals might have been light enough to pass as VP. Bloomberg would have been a much better choice. I don't like Forbes but at least he's taken somewhat seriously in economic circles.

390 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:15am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

I haven't ragged on Palin much because people here like her so much but she's a disaster and has been a drag on McCain's already weak ticket. She's a gimmick with no experience and no substance. She's a nice personality but not much else. McCain would have done much better to pick a serious VP with some experience. Preferably with economic credentials.

Funny, that's the way I see the Democrat relationship with Obama, and he has even less experience and substance.

391 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:21am

re: #349 Ward Cleaver

CNN is busy claiming that McCain took more. Next thing they'll tell us that Obama doesn't have any ties to Freddie or Fannie...

392 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:32:36am
393 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:33:08am

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No _______

Other ________

394 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:33:29am

re: #392 MandyManners

Are you going to set fire to your house now Mandy?

395 Uncle Joe  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:33:31am

It's certainly possible that Obama is in the lead but 11 points? Hard to believe.

396 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:33:53am

re: #343 Egfrow

I wish Newt was part of the ticket (Palin/Gingrich '08). I love to hear him speak; he's always spot on, never loses his cool, and is politically brilliant IMO.

397 Macaroon  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:33:56am

This poll is pretty clearly an out lier. The RCP average before they took this poll into account is probably close to where the race is really at: 5% for the Messiah.

398 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:33:57am

re: #379 Dahveed

My email to the McCain campaign (perhaps ineloquent and somewhat disjointed):

Dear Sen. McCain:

Enough is enough already. We need to hear some passion from you if we are to have the right man for the job in the White House. I have contributed to your campaign and I'm feeling let down. Barack Obama is not qualified in foreign and domestic policy and has surrounded himself with some of the most extreme members of our society.

Please bring the fight to them.


Thank you! I hope the campaign listens!

399 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:06am

re: #394 Desert Dog

Are you going to set fire to your house now Mandy?

I'll have to move to Toronto, first.

How cold does it get up there?

400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:09am

re: #393 debutaunt

Other ________

I'd say I'm in that category. Got polled on issues, not candidates or parties.

401 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:16am

re: #383 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I dont mind purchasing a bad mortgage. I just want to know when those dead beats get evicted so I can move in.

:D :D :D :D :D

Actually, they should be moved into a rental property that is cheaper than the house they were just moved out of. Trouble is, some of these houses they've been financed for wound up being totally trashed afterwards. Plumbing ripped out, holes in the walls, and stuff, causing the value of the place to now be practically nil. Hmmmm... maybe they should be forced to rent THAT house now! :D :D :D :D :D :D

402 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:31am

re: #384 Creeping Eruption

Why? It is part of the marketplace. Aren't we supposed to let the markets dictate what "should" or "should not" be provided?

By that reasoning, the bailout shouldn't be happened since the markets dictate that bad business decisions be punished. Banks were forced into making these loans because of threat of lawsuit and government pressure.

They extended credit to bad risks - the subprimes.

ARMs have a place in lending, but they should be for people who have the ability to pay not only at the time when the teaser rate is in effect, but when the rates readjust upwards at the end of the initial term.

403 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:38am

The polls don't matter.
The moderator doesn't matter.
The questions asked don't matter.
The answers from Obama don't matter.

The only thing that matter is speaking from truth and calling a lie a lie and holding someone responsible for thier mistakes.

McCain did none of those.

404 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:42am

re: #382 Desert Dog

I'm not sure if she can ever be taken seriously as a presidential candidate. She was put in the limelight before she was ready and that might hurt her permanently. You're right though, if she was allowed to gain experience for 4-8 years she would have been taken much more seriously.

405 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:48am

re: #399 MandyManners

I'll have to move to Toronto, first.

How cold does it get up there?

You'll freeze your cookies off...

406 artdog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:56am

re: #159 Dahveed

I have not been polled. However, my land line is unlisted, and I don't give it out. I use it for outgoing work calls. Period. The phone number that I give out is my cell.

So...I know there are more and more people like me, who use cell phones almost exclusively. Just wondering if that would skew poll results by eliminating a pool of likely voters.

407 cavallino_rampante  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:58am

I have this dream that maybe 6 months from now, with Obama in office and the ensuing buyer's remorse, that perhaps the American public will realize that they were led to this situation purely through media manipulation.

One would hope for a massive backlash against the media acting as an agent for political change. Just hopin' . . .

That constantly changing graph that CNN was running throughout the debate was simply ridiculous.

408 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:34:59am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

No economic experience, eh? So I suppose you'd like someone who knows how to 'blow' a few million grant dollars to someone who controlled the spending of tax dollars. Your choice.

You amaze me with your brilliant logic.

409 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:35:14am

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

Were the babies regular or extra-crispy? That makes a difference, you know.

Deep fried. . .

410 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:35:18am

Good Afternoon Lizards! It's gray and wet in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

I ignored the debate last night and read a book instead.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

411 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:35:21am

re: #399 MandyManners

I'll have to move to Toronto, first.

How cold does it get up there?

Why do you ask?
You're thinking of moving as a way of keeping ... er ... warm.

412 laZardo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:35:22am

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

re: #391 lawhawk

My guess is that McCain might have taken more individually than Obama, but the Democrats may as well have taken more when you count the whole party.

413 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:35:35am

Oh, darn... they lost the feed!

414 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:36:11am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

Could be, that that would be a shame, because we have a shortage of real leaders on the right.

415 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:36:23am

re: #390 HD Woman

Funny, that's the way I see the Democrat relationship with Obama, and he has even less experience and substance.


True but the difference is that the press loves Obama and he's charismatic enough that the public will forgive him pretty much anything. He's like George Clooney or Brad Pitt running for president.

416 CantonJim  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:36:24am

I understand that pollsters do not contact and poll people via their cell phones. Can anyone tell me if the national 'do-not-call" register? Are those numbers excluded from polling?

417 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:36:32am

re: #285 NomadOfNorad

Hmmmm... Dow Jones is at +111 now...

The Dow Jones is officially menopausal - hot/cold, hot/cold.

/I lived in sweaters in January when my mom was going through it all those years ago.

418 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:36:56am

re: #407 cavallino_rampante

I have this dream that maybe 6 months from now, with Obama in office and the ensuing buyer's remorse, that perhaps the American public will realize that they were led to this situation purely through media manipulation.

One would hope for a massive backlash against the media acting as an agent for political change. Just hopin' . . .

That constantly changing graph that CNN was running throughout the debate was simply ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it would take decades and decades to recover from the damage even one term of Obama would do to this country. Assuming we even COULD recover from it.

419 Egfrow  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:01am

re: #396 Vergeltung

Yeah, I agree, My fantasy dream team would be Newt and Rudy.

420 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:06am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

I haven't ragged on Palin much because people here like her so much but she's a disaster and has been a drag on McCain's already weak ticket. She's a gimmick with no experience and no substance. She's a nice personality but not much else. McCain would have done much better to pick a serious VP with some experience. Preferably with economic credentials.

you fail to see her values (and value-ableness), because you lack those values in your own live. suffice it to say, her life and lifestyle is completely alien to you.

not so, to most people here on LGF. we get it.

421 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:11am

re: #408 Cap'n DOC

You amaze me with your brilliant logic.


Thanks.

422 AmericanMe  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:16am

I don't put much stock in polls. Seems to me the pollsters are putting out the narrative they want. Right now they want conservatives believe the race is lost, that there is no chance. I'm from a very liberal/progressive area, Los Angeles. Most of my coworkers are registered Democrats and have never voted for a Republican in their lives, but they are in this election. How can that be? When I ask them why, they tell me they flat out do not trust Obama.

I drive 30 minutes through three LA suburbs to get home from work and I can count the number of Obama yard signs and bumper stickers I see on one hand. During the last election we were flooded with Kerry/Edwards signage. Something is not adding up.

I'll wait for election day and the true results.

423 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:16am

re: #410 ggt

Good Afternoon Lizards! It's gray and wet in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

I ignored the debate last night and read a book instead.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Well, for one, Mandy's ogling Toronto firefighters.
/wouldn't ya know

424 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:34am

Our Amish housekeeper just told me that she and her husband are voting for McCain/Palin. Not all Amish vote but a good number of them do and since they don't have phones, I betcha nobody has polled their community. lol!

425 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:37am

re: #399 MandyManners

I'll have to move to Toronto, first.

How cold does it get up there?

Does it matter, with someone like that to keep you warm?

426 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:38am

re: #410 ggt

Good Afternoon Lizards! It's gray and wet in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today. I ignored the debate last night and read a book instead. How are you-all and what are we talking about?

French wines.

427 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:37:47am

re: #420 Vergeltung


you fail to see her values (and value-ableness), because you lack those values in your own live.


Thanks for judging me.

428 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:00am

re: #155 Desert Dog

I don't waste one milligram of energy thinking about Gallup, I just ignore them.

They called me and I refused to answer - twice.

429 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:08am
430 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:16am

re: #124 taxfreekiller

how many lgf's posters have ever been polled.

Yes ______

No __X_______

Never been polled.

Nor has my family - all of 'em voting for Mac/Sarah. (12 adults)

431 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:20am

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Rudy wouldn't have been able to win a president but his scandals might have been light enough to pass as VP. Bloomberg would have been a much better choice. I don't like Forbes but at least he's taken somewhat seriously in economic circles.

Mayor Bloomberg?!? He's an idiot. He only became a Republican to win as mayor.

432 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:31am

re: #416 CantonJim

I understand that pollsters do not contact and poll people via their cell phones. Can anyone tell me if the national 'do-not-call" register? Are those numbers excluded from polling?

I'm on the Texas and national. They are NOT supposed to exclude polling organizations.

433 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:36am

re: #402 lawhawk

By that reasoning, the bailout shouldn't be happened since the markets dictate that bad business decisions be punished. Banks were forced into making these loans because of threat of lawsuit and government pressure.

They extended credit to bad risks - the subprimes.

ARMs have a place in lending, but they should be for people who have the ability to pay not only at the time when the teaser rate is in effect, but when the rates readjust upwards at the end of the initial term.

But isn't that exactly what people here have been bitching about - that the bail out never should have happened? When were banks pressured by lawsuits or the gov (I assume you mean coercive pressure - police powers type pressure) to give shitty loans?

434 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:42am

Come on--say ACORN!

435 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:42am

re: #418 NomadOfNorad

Unfortunately, it would take decades and decades to recover from the damage even one term of Obama would do to this country. Assuming we even COULD recover from it.

It will take a long time to clean up the radioactive mess after a couple of Iranian A-bombs get delivered by cargo container.

436 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:46am

re: #424 rightymouse

My Puritan gardener thinks Obama is an asshole, as does my Shaker plumber.

j/k :-)

437 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:53am

re: #380 MandyManners

yes, thank you.

438 DeafDog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:38:56am

re: #424 rightymouse

Our Amish housekeeper just told me that she and her husband are voting for McCain/Palin. Not all Amish vote but a good number of them do and since they don't have phones, I betcha nobody has polled their community. lol!

Are they in Ohio? Sonds like a gold mine of same day register/vote participants.

439 wright1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:05am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

I haven't ragged on Palin much because people here like her so much but she's a disaster and has been a drag on McCain's already weak ticket. She's a gimmick with no experience and no substance. She's a nice personality but not much else. McCain would have done much better to pick a serious VP with some experience. Preferably with economic credentials.

I disagree. She is a lightweight only because she has not spent most of her adult political life campaigning on a national stage like BHO, but she will get better. She also has core principles that supercede other inadequacies. The play here was not the Palin got picked. Rather it was that Romney was not on the top of the ticket. McCain is the drag - not Palin.

440 Ron Shaw  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:06am

...at least as far back as I can remember Republican candidates running for POTUS have always run against all odds and never has this been more evident or true and prevalent than this election...in essence, the deck has always been stacked against Republicans running for President. This year even the Jokers with have taken sides with the other 52 cards with the Dems...the msm's one way assault is at an all time high as they do backstrokes in obama's tank while drinking his kool-aid...the bully pulpit that is seen and constantly heard in hollywood and with almost all entertainers is more vocal and more rabidly anti-conservative than ever...seriously, they really do hate Bush!...voter fraud with the purchase of ACORN assistance by bho this election will eclipse the past like never witnessed as Chicago-style corrupt politics goes national...the world's liberal voice is being shouted at us like never before and it's all bho, bho, bho and its getting a lot more scary as 11-4 approaches...BDS has become terminal for the liberal flock as doom and gloom is sold in every corner of the US by every anti-American nut-bag and politician...'it's the economy stupid' seems to always benefit Democrats and never Republicans even when the dimwit Dems have caused the financial mess from Carter to Clinton to the current Dem-dominated Congress, yet, they receive no apparent harm from it and McCain is saddled with all the baggage blame, apparently...the national dryer is stuck on perpetual spin cycle where bho is concerned...we have become a nation of enablers or so the msm would have us do...bho need not explain anything...anything ever...McCain must answer all and often...bho continues to use ignorance as excuse one for any little bump from any media...it's amazing how such an advertised as brilliant man can be so obtuse, so idiotic and so absent...the man's even 'absent' when he's 'present' many times while in Congress (State and National)...this list could go on and on and on but my brain is actually hurting from the apparent futility of it all...I've got bho brain freeze!
One of the oldest questions in Philosophy has finally been answered...when the tree falls in the forest and no one is there, it makes no sound! McCain supporters are falling trees in a vacuous forest...and you would think any environmentalist would take exception to such a loss.

441 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:17am

re: #355 laZardo

It was a tough question, and I had to ask myself how I was going to repay my loans when I went to grad school and law school. I did state school undergrad and had no loans for those. I was fortunate. Most are not.

If you're pursuing a major in which high salaries are expected, taking the risk on heavy student loan debt makes sense. You have to figure out your own risk tolerance.

442 spypeach  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:30am

If McCain could take 10 minutes out of his day to either listen to Rush or read this and many other blogs, he would probably get a clue.

nevermind

443 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:46am

re: #420 Vergeltung

you fail to see her values (and value-ableness), because you lack those values in your own live. suffice it to say, her life and lifestyle is completely alien to you.

not so, to most people here on LGF. we get it.

Now, that's just plain mean. You don't have to believe in God to have moral values.

444 Gorgonzola  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:50am

Lizard people. I have a question. The benefit of your experience please.

John McCain and Sarah Palin have Ayers and Wright as ammunition, and they're using it. The GOP's mobilised the surrogates to press it. It's powerful stuff, and they're spending serious money on it.

Does anyone have the slightest idea why McCain didn't use it last night?

I mean, if it's valuable enough to advertise, and McCain NEEDS fireworks, why didn't he drop it?

And don't say "He's leaving it to the surrogates." That won't do. If he doesn't use the heavy guns, in public, he's not going to win the election. Sorry, but he's just not. So what's the deal?

445 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:51am

re: #424 rightymouse

Our Amish housekeeper just told me that she and her husband are voting for McCain/Palin. Not all Amish vote but a good number of them do and since they don't have phones, I betcha nobody has polled their community. lol!

That could make a difference in parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio.

Speaking of PA, I know a huge number of people from NJ have moved across the border to escape the high taxes and real estate prices. Does anyone have a feel for how that might change the electorate in eastern PA?

446 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:39:51am

re: #435 Kosh's Shadow

and, if that happens, all of Iran's problems would be gone, because they would be gone too

447 Joan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:40:02am

OT: I received this email from a Democrat friend, someone clearly getting the Politburo Propaganda Scenario in advance, just that little added dollop of emotional blackmail and insult that every election needs to ensure that bitterness and slander perpetuate forever--oh, not mention justifying violent action following defeat in a contested election. Here it is, my Democrat friend, sadly speculating whether I'm not actually racist:

"You are The Boss... Which team would you hire with America facing historic debt, two wars, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc.?

Educational Background:


OBAMA
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

BIDEN
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

MCCAIN

United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

PALIN

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

Some Points to Consider:

What if John McCain were a former president of the Harvard Law Review? What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the first woman he said 'I do' to? What if Obama were the candidate who left his first wife after she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were a wife who not only became addicted to pain killers, but acquired them illegally through her charitable organization? What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama were a member of the Keating-5? What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference."

448 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:40:17am

re: #424 rightymouse

Our Amish housekeeper just told me that she and her husband are voting for McCain/Palin. Not all Amish vote but a good number of them do and since they don't have phones, I betcha nobody has polled their community. lol!

That, and I hear that there are a lot of people who only have cellphones out there. That is, there are a lot of people who have no landlines. Polls only call people who have landlines, they don't call cellphones.

Oh, the feed is back up on FNC! Kewl!

449 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:40:25am

Sarah Palin/Rosie the Riveter emailed me about last night...:

Dear _____,

I hope you were able to watch the second presidential debate last night. John McCain displayed the leadership, resolve and sound judgment our nation needs during these challenging economic times.

In the only debate where the American people get to participate, Senator McCain answered the tough questions about how his pro-growth, pro-jobs policies will lead to a stronger economy and help taxpayers recover from the credit crisis the do-nothing Democrat Congress put us in.

Senator McCain also showed why he has the experience and character needed to carry on the fight to win the war against radical Islamic extremism. He has always put his country first and will continue to do so as our commander-in-chief.

Reform Republicans have a clear plan for breaking our nation's strategic dependence on foreign sources of energy by producing more of our own power and developing alternative fuels to cut off the flow of oil wealth to repressive dictatorships like Iran.

Contrast this with the Obama Democrats' failed liberal message of bigger government, higher taxes and spending and more power for Washington D.C. bureaucrats, and the American people have a clear choice to make on November 4th.

The RNC needs your help to get this message out to independent and undecided voters that will make the difference in races across the country. Please make a secure online contribution of $2,000, $1,000, $500, $250, $100, $50 or $25 to RNC Victory 2008. Your gift will help fund our Party's critical advertising plans and sustain our vital get-out-the-vote program.

The stakes are extremely high for our nation. We have less than one month to win this election. Please give as generously as you can. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Sarah Palin

P.S. The next presidential debate is Wednesday, October 15th -- please mark this important date on your calendar today. And please help keep our Party on the path to nationwide victories by making a secure online contribution of $2,000, $1,000, $500, $250, $100, $50 or $25 to RNC Victory 2008 right now. Thank you.

450 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:40:29am

re: #423 pre-Boomer Marine brat

me too!

451 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:40:39am

re: #396 Vergeltung

I wish Newt was part of the ticket (Palin/Gingrich '08). I love to hear him speak; he's always spot on, never loses his cool, and is politically brilliant IMO.

And he makes Democrats' heads explode. Worth the price of admission.

452 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:00am

re: #445 doppelganglander

That could make a difference in parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio.

Speaking of PA, I know a huge number of people from NJ have moved across the border to escape the high taxes and real estate prices. Does anyone have a feel for how that might change the electorate in eastern PA?

We live in Ohio.

453 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:03am

re: #410 ggt

Good Afternoon Lizards! It's gray and wet in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

I ignored the debate last night and read a book instead.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Afternoon ggt! For lunch today, we've got an order of deep pessimism sauted in some cautious optimism sprinkled with some abject defeatism served on a bed of realism. How are you?

454 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:03am

re: #435 Kosh's Shadow

It will take a long time to clean up the radioactive mess after a couple of Iranian A-bombs get delivered by cargo container.

That too....

455 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:34am

just donated 100 to the RNC

456 SagamoreGal  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:45am

Thank God McCain's got Sarah on the ticket or he'd be 21 points behind in the Gallup poll. Can we gag and bound McCain and throw him into the closet between now and Nov 4 and let Sarah speak for the ticket?

McCain is the most unimpressive man I've seen on a public stage in quite some time. His charisma factor is less than zero. No wonder he can't draw crowds to his speeches, sans Sarah. Whatever fire in the gut he may have had at one time he seems to have lost about the age of 65.

Stop calling me your "friend" John. I'm only voting for you because of 1). Sarah and 2). you're less scary than your opponent.

457 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:54am

re: #408 Cap'n DOC

No economic experience, eh? So I suppose you'd like someone who knows how to 'blow' a few million grant dollars to someone who controlled the spending of tax dollars. Your choice.
You amaze me with your brilliant logic.

exactly, or more precisely, his complete LACK of logic. no such demands were made of inumerable other VP and Pres candidates of the past.

his problem with her is much deeper, and more Freudian, if you get my drift..... similar to the moonbat opposition, but different in a key way.

458 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:41:54am

re: #431 Ward Cleaver

Mayor Bloomberg?!? He's an idiot. He only became a Republican to win as mayor.

Plus, he's been able to subvert the will of the people here in NYC and will likely run for a 3rd term...

Gee, I winder why the City Council refused to think about it for Rudy...

459 redstateredneck  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:07am

re: #337 MandyManners

I wanna' see Gov. Palin go up against BHO.


They ought to do a tag team debate. Both tickets, Presidential candidate and the Veep, going up against each other.
I'd pay to watch that!

460 mattm  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:22am

I have never been polled, neither have my parents in this or the 2004 election cycle. Even in MA i have not seen many Obama signs.

461 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:23am

re: #449 alegrias

I'd tell that asshole that war is not won in a debating society.

462 cblesz  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:29am

My only wish is for McCain to grow a pair in the next couple of days. I wonder if Gallup spoke to any of the Dallas Cowboy players registered in Nevada...

463 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:29am

re: #447 Joan

OT: I received this email from a Democrat friend, someone clearly getting the Politburo Propaganda Scenario in advance, just that little added dollop of emotional blackmail and insult that every election needs to ensure that bitterness and slander perpetuate forever--oh, not mention justifying violent action following defeat in a contested election. Here it is, my Democrat friend, sadly speculating whether I'm not actually racist:

"You are The Boss... Which team would you hire with America facing historic debt, two wars, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc.?

Educational Background:


OBAMA
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

BIDEN
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

MCCAIN

United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

PALIN

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

Some Points to Consider:

What if John McCain were a former president of the Harvard Law Review? What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the first woman he said 'I do' to? What if Obama were the candidate who left his first wife after she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were a wife who not only became addicted to pain killers, but acquired them illegally through her charitable organization? What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama were a member of the Keating-5? What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference."

That email is riddled with elitism and snobbery.

464 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:41am

re: #447 Joan

I saw that too.....it does not matter where Obama got his degrees, he would still be a closet Marxist, a narcissist, a power hungry lightweight and, most importantly - WRONG about just about everything. He never puts that on his resume either.

465 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:54am

re: #420 Vergeltung

you fail to see her values (and value-ableness), because you lack those values in your own live. suffice it to say, her life and lifestyle is completely alien to you. not so, to most people here on LGF. we get it.

Oh go piss off. What in heavens name makes you the moral police on LGF?

466 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:42:56am

re: #417 Intrepid

The Dow Jones is officially menopausal - hot/cold, hot/cold.

A LOT more cold than hot recently

467 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:43:02am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure if she can ever be taken seriously as a presidential candidate. She was put in the limelight before she was ready and that might hurt her permanently. You're right though, if she was allowed to gain experience for 4-8 years she would have been taken much more seriously.

* * *
Harry Truman was a lowly haberdasher kept in the dark by his own partner FDR, and Harry didn't even have a college degree when he was VEEP & President.

I think he was a great president despite snobbish elitist BS said about him & his chances.

468 DeafDog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:43:25am

re: #447 Joan


Slightly off topic, but Obama refuses to release his school records or his senior thesis. If someone wants to bring up O's academic regard as a qualification, and wants to diss McCain's class rank, I think they need to tell us more than he was an affirmative action graduate.

BTW #2 - Didn't Biden get a reprimand in Law School for pagerism?

469 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:43:36am

re: #444 Gorgonzola

Because Obambi would have shot back with the Keating scandal and McCain and it is too late in the game to educate the voters on what a non-issue it is.

470 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:44:15am

re: #422 AmericanMe

I don't put much stock in polls. Seems to me the pollsters are putting out the narrative they want. Right now they want conservatives believe the race is lost, that there is no chance. I'm from a very liberal/progressive area, Los Angeles. Most of my coworkers are registered Democrats and have never voted for a Republican in their lives, but they are in this election. How can that be? When I ask them why, they tell me they flat out do not trust Obama.

I drive 30 minutes through three LA suburbs to get home from work and I can count the number of Obama yard signs and bumper stickers I see on one hand. During the last election we were flooded with Kerry/Edwards signage. Something is not adding up.
I'll wait for election day and the true results.

though anectdotal, I see the same evidence here in a suburb of NYC as well. I wonder if this is the greatest snow job in political history....

471 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:44:40am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure if she can ever be taken seriously as a presidential candidate. She was put in the limelight before she was ready and that might hurt her permanently. You're right though, if she was allowed to gain experience for 4-8 years she would have been taken much more seriously.

I doubt it. For some people there would never be enough experience if it came to a conservative woman.

If she had..... say 2 years experience as a US Senator (as is the case of another candidate), there would just be yet another rationalization why she is not "ready" for the Vice Presidency.

472 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:44:47am

re: #462 cblesz

If they call down here to Arizona, they will have to speak Espanol to communicate with all the "citizens" ACORN is signing up. Imaginary voters, dead voters, illegal alien voters......the dems base has certainly expanded this time around.

473 zenren  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:44:47am

Zogby poll:

Obama - 47%
McCain - 45%

2.8% margin of error

474 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:44:57am
475 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:11am

re: #448 NomadOfNorad

That, and I hear that there are a lot of people who only have cellphones out there. That is, there are a lot of people who have no landlines. Polls only call people who have landlines, they don't call cellphones.

Oh, the feed is back up on FNC! Kewl!

Just about everyone I know, except for people like my parents/in-laws, etc., use cellphones and have dumped their landlines.

476 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:15am

Obama has the world-wide communist machine behind him.

and Hezbollah.

and Soros.

and some guys named DDLLLSSKGHFKK and DDLSKSSLLLFFT.

and a well oiled machine of leftists here at home.

477 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:16am

re: #258 buzzsawmonkey

Most libs are a lot like little children- If they don't get their way, they start kicking and screaming and saying how it isn't fair.

478 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:18am

re: #453 Spenser (with an S)

Working my special mojo to counteract the bad vibes around me.

479 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:36am

re: #453 Spenser (with an S)

Afternoon ggt! For lunch today, we've got an order of deep pessimism sauted in some cautious optimism sprinkled with some abject defeatism served on a bed of realism. How are you?

Can I just have a Mooseburger?

480 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:42am

re: #431 Ward Cleaver

Mayor Bloomberg?!? He's an idiot. He only became a Republican to win as mayor.

oh yeah, don't you see how much bloomberg would have fired up that base!

(of course, the suggestion is insane).

481 Eowyn2  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:46am

re: #16 tfc3rid

But what was his 'largest lead'? 6 points?

His highest total was about 54% if I remember correctly. This poll showes obama at 52% and mcCain at 41%. The rest are 'undecided' or have told the pollsters that it is none of their damned business. I'm going to say that at least 6% of those who say 'none of your damned business' are conservatives who will vote for McCain. It shows too much independence for them to be libs.

482 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:52am

re: #447 Joan

Racism also blinds by glossing over glaring character flaws and lack of experience.

483 kawfytawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:45:53am

re: #318 realwest

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No ___X____

I have, twice during the primaries and once during the general election

484 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:46:06am

re: #467 alegrias

Truman was a judge and a senator. He had plenty of experience.

485 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:46:13am

re: #468 DeafDog

Slightly off topic, but Obama refuses to release his school records or his senior thesis. If someone wants to bring up O's academic regard as a qualification, and wants to diss McCain's class rank, I think they need to tell us more than he was an affirmative action graduate.

BTW #2 - Didn't Biden get a reprimand in Law School for pagerism?

I think you're getting Biden confused with Mark Foley. Or Barney Frank.

Biden was hit with repeated charges of plagiarism.

486 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:46:18am

re: #456 SagamoreGal

Thank God McCain's got Sarah on the ticket or he'd be 21 points behind in the Gallup poll. Can we gag and bound McCain and throw him into the closet between now and Nov 4 and let Sarah speak for the ticket?

McCain is the most unimpressive man I've seen on a public stage in quite some time. His charisma factor is less than zero. No wonder he can't draw crowds to his speeches, sans Sarah. Whatever fire in the gut he may have had at one time he seems to have lost about the age of 65.

Stop calling me your "friend" John. I'm only voting for you because of 1). Sarah and 2). you're less scary than your opponent.

* * *
At least McCain's not calling you "My fellow World Citizen".

I preferred Nixon's "My fellow American" but perhaps that's passe today.

McCain at least is talking to you, presumably a friend of America, not a foe like the other guy's friends.

487 NC State of Mind  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:46:30am

re: #477 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Most libs are a lot like little children- If they don't get their way, they start kicking and screaming and saying how it isn't fair.

Sounds like Islamic radicals to me. Or CAIR.

488 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:46:37am
489 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:06am

re: #471 Outrider

I think Killgore agrees Obama sucks (I hope at least), he was just pointing out Palin's weakness in that post. I agreed, she was not ready. But, I would rather have my 2nd Grader or my cat get elected rather than BHO.

490 vxbush  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:16am

Okay, as no one answered my question, I had to research it myself.

The answer is A: if candidate A is reported as having 60% of the vote and candidate B has 40% and the margin of error is 3%, then the true percentage of voters for A is somewhere between 57 and 63% and for B is between 37 and 43%.

That means that in a situation where Obama has 42% and McCain has 39%, they are in a statistical dead heat. You can't say that Obama is 3 points up because there is no guarantee that that percentage is right, given the sample size.

491 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:17am

re: #438 DeafDog

Are they in Ohio? Sonds like a gold mine of same day register/vote participants.

We're in Ohio and they are already registered voters. :)

492 JohnnyReb  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:26am

re: #458 tfc3rid

Plus, he's been able to subvert the will of the people here in NYC and will likely run for a 3rd term...

Gee, I winder why the City Council refused to think about it for Rudy...

I have been asking myself that very same question since I saw it on the news. Why would they even think of letting him have a thrid term? Maybe it because everyone is thinking clearly now that they can't smoke or eat fried foods in NYC?

493 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:29am
494 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:31am

re: #488 buzzsawmonkey

For starters. Then they begin breaking things.

Then, they go for the shins.

495 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:42am

re: #474 buzzsawmonkey

Every candidate chooses some bland term to refer to the voters, and "my fellow Americans" is pretty played. Yeah, he overdid it, but it's less obnoxious than it could be.

It wouldn't inspire confidence if he called us "d00dz."

496 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:46am

re: #443 MandyManners

Now, that's just plain mean. You don't have to believe in God to have moral values.

my post had more, and deeper meaning than just that issue, but I'll leave it there. some will understand, others will not. it's ok.

497 DeafDog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:47:54am

Sorrif this was already posted.....New Stock Market Terms:

CEO --Chief Embezzlement Officer

CFO-- Corporate Fraud Officer

BULL MARKET -- A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius.

BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18 month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no s_ _.

VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower.

P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing.

BROKER -- What my broker has made me.

STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell.

STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock.

STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves.

FINANCIAL PLANNER -- A guy whose phone has been disconnected

MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks

CASH FLOW-- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the drain.

YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share.

WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought Yahoo @ $240 per share.

INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR -- Past year investor who's now locked up in a nuthouse

PROFIT -- An archaic word no longer in use.

498 freedomplow  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:48:05am

Its time to throw Rezko into the mix. Roll out a new one each week until the election.

499 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:48:11am

re: #489 Desert Dog
That's correct. I'd rather take my chances with Palin rather than Obama but the rest of America doesn't see it that way.

500 Typicalwhitey  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:48:28am

McCain just gave a very good speech in PA

501 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:48:51am

re: #492 JohnnyReb

I have been asking myself that very same question since I saw it on the news. Why would they even think of letting him have a thrid term? Maybe it because everyone is thinking clearly now that they can't smoke or eat fried foods in NYC?

Because they think he is best to handle what is going to be a cripppling impact on the NYC economy and his approval rating is about 65%...

502 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:48:54am

re: #431 Ward Cleaver

Mayor Bloomberg?!? He's an idiot. He only became a Republican to win as mayor.

Further, Bloomberg is a notorious taxer, gun-banner, and nanny-stater.

I can't imagine any way to more thoroughly alienate the Republican base than to put him on the ticket.

The guy is the very definition of "Republican in name only". He was a life long Democrat, who made the economic calculation that it would be cheaper for him to obtain the Mayoral seat as a Republican. . .so he switched his party affiliation to Republican just for the race.

503 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:49:00am

You have to love the headlines. /

Stocks fluctuate despite emergency rate cut.

No kidding. It's what stock markets do - they fluctuate. How frellin' illuminating.

504 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:49:38am

re: #468 DeafDog

Slightly off topic, but Obama refuses to release his school records or his senior thesis. If someone wants to bring up O's academic regard as a qualification, and wants to diss McCain's class rank, I think they need to tell us more than he was an affirmative action graduate.

BTW #2 - Didn't Biden get a reprimand in Law School for pagerism?

* * *
Biden's law school expelled him for plagiarism but he cried & begged to be readmitted. Someone fact check me.

Had Biden's law school had any honor or principles, they would have stuck with their decision.

505 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:49:51am

re: #447 Joan

I would start by saying that this has never been a contest where we compared GPA's and gave the presidency to the winner. We look at character (who are your friends, what have you said before we were listening) and we look at strength (who has endured the most gracefully) and yes, we look at who loves the country they want to lead the most. Also, who understands the world we live in and America's place in it.

506 Spiritualized  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:49:52am

For God's sake, the polls are ALL bullshit.

Go search the archives of Google news with phrases like "Gore now leads,", you get old articles similar to this one:

Monday, Oct. 9, 2000:Media Backtalk With Howard Kurtz

Washington, D.C.: Why has the Gallup Poll been so bizarrely volatile over the past few days? Gore up by 11, then Bush up by 7. Other polls have shown a pro-Bush swing, but nothing like this. What's going on with their methodology?

507 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:49:58am

Good afternoon lizards.

508 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:17am

re: #502 looking closely

the NRA would never endorse Bloomberg. It's members would never vote for him.

509 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:24am

re: #480 Vergeltung

He fires them up with $50 bills....he's rich, that is how he won the election in NY

510 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:30am

OT: I'm guessing the wild swings in the DOW today means we might be seeing the bottom. The Market wants to continue its downward momentum but there are enough bargains out there that people are buying.

511 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:32am

re: #447 Joan

You know, that leftist email you quoted was starting to develop a decent point for a while there. A point for which there's an important rebuttal to be offered, but a cogent, even convincing point nonetheless.

And then I got to "This is what racism does...." And the entire thing immediately lost its value and became yet another sickening example of moonbat idiocy, utterly unworthy of any serious consideration whatsoever, its only valid purpose being to expose your friend as a person so devoid of intellectual maturity that I really wonder whether he or she deserves the right to vote at all.

I apologize for insulting your friend. I must say, I have insulted (and lost) a few raving moonbat friends recently myself.

512 laZardo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:39am

re: #441 lawhawk

Thanks for the tip. Gonna head to bed, it's damn near 3 AM. =_= nighty!

513 transient  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:40am

re: #101 Ward Cleaver

re: #108 MandyManners

Likely voters: this link is from '04 but it's useful. Generally pollsters try to determine whether you've voted in previous election(s) to determine how likely you are to vote in the current one. The brief article linked describes how they go about that.

The obvious flaw in that method is that first time voters may be underrepresented in a "likely voter" tally.

514 tfc3rid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:56am

re: #504 alegrias

* * *
Biden's law school expelled him for plagiarism but he cried & begged to be readmitted. Someone fact check me.

Had Biden's law school had any honor or principles, they would have stuck with their decision.

Eh, it is just plagarism, it's not like he is a domestic terrorist or something...

515 FrogMarch  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:57am

Geroge Soros Obama's supreme Court appointees scare the crap out of me.

516 Born Again Republican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:50:59am

re: #469 ggt

Because Obambi would have shot back with the Keating scandal and McCain and it is too late in the game to educate the voters on what a non-issue it is.

What I would love to hear is him telling people that he has not tried to hide this part of his history and he worked to put those crooks behind bars. Unlike Obama's behavior.

517 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:51:00am

re: #495 Who Watches the Watchmen?

It wouldn't inspire confidence if he called us "d00dz."

Ha. Might help if he sprinkled it in sparingly, though.

"Senator Obama claims he'll cut taxes for the average American. Dude."

518 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:51:35am

re: #484 Killgore Trout

Truman was a judge and a senator. He had plenty of experience.

* * *
I repeat, FDR didn't bother telling his own Veep, Harry Truman, about the Manhattan Project.

So Harry Truman knew nothing about the most important decision he would have to make, involving atomic bombs over Hiroshima & Nagasaki, when FDR died & left Truman in charge.

519 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:52:07am

re: #511 Last Mohican

since 9/11 I've lost quite a few.

520 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:52:35am

re: #468 DeafDog

Another point: we don't have Obama's academic records to look at, but graduating from Columbia without honors is not good enough to get one into Harvard Law School, even with the help of affirmative action. He'd need an alumnus parent, or someone who's either rich or powerful paving the way.

521 Suzette  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:52:44am

re: #21 astronmr20

Well, if the polls are horse hockey, then so what?

Better numbers for Obama like this may lull the Dems into a false sense of security... and motivate McCain voters to get out the vote.

Actually this may be true. A lot of Obama supporters may think he has it in the bag and simply not vote.
/I don't think so. At this time of year during the last election there were lots of signs around my neck of the woods. Either for Kerry or Bush. I am seeing very, very few signs. People are not wanting other people to know how they are going to vote. (So they don't appear racist?)

522 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:52:54am

re: #490 vxbush

Okay, as no one answered my question, I had to research it myself.

The answer is A: if candidate A is reported as having 60% of the vote and candidate B has 40% and the margin of error is 3%, then the true percentage of voters for A is somewhere between 57 and 63% and for B is between 37 and 43%.

That means that in a situation where Obama has 42% and McCain has 39%, they are in a statistical dead heat. You can't say that Obama is 3 points up because there is no guarantee that that percentage is right, given the sample size.


Further, this assumes that the sample is truly representative of likely votes, when this often isn't the case.

If polling is so accurate, then why the pretty significant differences BETWEEN the various polls?

Also, mere polling of the popular vote, EVEN IF ACCURATE, still doesn't tell the whole story, because what ultimately matters is the electoral vote. We all know that its possible to win one, but lose the other.

523 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:52:55am

It seems counter-productive to me when conservatives sometimes get wound up on the idea (ahead of a debate) that there has to be a knockout punch so severe that the Democrat will almost literally by lying unconscious on the floor when the debate is finished.

It sets up for disappointment needlessly, IMO.

There's still almost four weeks left and I think that McCain/Palin are working hard.

Also, I think the recent trending towards Obama had to do with the economy but that the name at the heart of the crisis ("Subprime") is a clue for most sane voters that this was about trying to give mortgages to people who didn't qualify for them. Who was pushing for this? The Democrats.

The Dems like to gloat before the vote - and they'll do it again. If they get their folks partying on November 4th instead of doing the day's real business - good.

524 kawfytawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:52:58am

re: #391 lawhawk

CNN is busy claiming that McCain took more. Next thing they'll tell us that Obama doesn't have any ties to Freddie or Fannie...

actually they tell us Obama has no ties with Ayers...bunch of bunk

525 cavallino_rampante  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:53:00am

re: #418 NomadOfNorad

True. No arguments here.

526 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:53:08am
527 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:53:31am

re: #503 lawhawk

You have to love the headlines. /

Stocks fluctuate despite emergency rate cut.

No kidding. It's what stock markets do - they fluctuate. How frellin' illuminating.

And the Breaking News about the weather:

"Wind blows despite sun shining!"

528 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:53:47am

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Luckily, you ain't taken seriously in this circle.

529 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:53:51am

re: #502 looking closely

Regardless how you feel about him personally he is taken seriously by economists. He might not pass right wing purity tests but he would have been a good choice. One of the main reasons we're in this mess is because of the pointless demands of purity from conservatives about irrelevant issues. Republicans would do much better to focus on small government, lower taxes and give up the abortion, anti-gay marriage stuff.

530 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:14am
531 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:16am

Gotta' go. If Edgar comes slithering in here, beat the snot out of him for me, Lizards!

532 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:16am

re: #269 CapeCoddah

Good afternoon everyone.
I got polled yesterday, but it was a local news station, WBZ/Boston. I was actually surprised there were no impossibly worded questions. Could not find results for it on their website later, though.

That was your neighbor calling.

533 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:18am

re: #521 Suzette

I saw a lot of Kerry bumper stickers last time around. I see a few yard signs for both sides and a few bumper stickers. It's not as pervasive and not as one-sided this year.

I see a lot more NRA/gun type bumper stickers than I've ever seen.

534 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:33am

If you have some spare cash, I would start thinking about what stock to buy. Buy low, sell high.....let these other suckers sell low.....

535 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:35am

re: #531 MandyManners

Gotta' go. If Edgar comes slithering in here, beat the snot out of him for me, Lizards!

And, for Sharmuta and Dianna!

536 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:42am

re: #528 Cap'n DOC

Luckily, you ain't taken seriously in this circle.

That's untrue. Many people here like Killgore. Including me, although I know that'll mean little to you.

Might want to reflect on that sort of statement before posting.

537 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:54:51am

re: #509 Desert Dog

He fires them up with $50 bills....he's rich, that is how he won the election in NY

I live near NYC, I know. :) he's popular in NYC. but, he's a RINO for sure.

538 vxbush  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:55:09am

re: #522 looking closely

Further, this assumes that the sample is truly representative of likely votes, when this often isn't the case.

If polling is so accurate, then why the pretty significant differences BETWEEN the various polls?

Also, mere polling of the popular vote, EVEN IF ACCURATE, still doesn't tell the whole story, because what ultimately matters is the electoral vote. We all know that its possible to win one, but lose the other.

True, but so many polls have been within 6 with a 3 point margin of error that people need to realize that the poll is still, statistically speaking, dead even.

Then, when you throw in all your points (all very valid), it makes the poll even less trustworthy.

539 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:55:34am

re: #537 Vergeltung

Better than Dinkins too.....what a joke he was!

540 Kyle_st  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:10am

Unfortunately, McCain has almost NO chance of beating the "Chosen One" at this point. A turnaround now is highly unlikely, barring a "Hail Mary" play that devastates Obama (Rezko talking, or something like that).

It's over. Get used to 4-8 years of the Messiah, and kiss the character of this country good-bye

541 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:11am

re: #504 alegrias

* * *
Biden's law school expelled him for plagiarism but he cried & begged to be readmitted. Someone fact check me.

Had Biden's law school had any honor or principles, they would have stuck with their decision.


I believe Biden was failed in the class in question.

Biden claims to this day that it was a simple misunderstanding on his part about "attribution." (As if all plagiarism, isn't ipso facto, about misattribution).

The idea that a college graduate and law student doesn't know how to properly cite a paper is ridiculous. Its possible to make stylistic errors in citation, but that's NOT the kind of thing that draws charges of plagiarism or results in failure.

This whole thing, frankly, goes right to integrity. Biden has a long and storied history of, to put things politely "shading the truth".

542 SagamoreGal  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:13am

re: #424 rightymouse

"Our Amish housekeeper just told me that she and her husband are voting for McCain/Palin. Not all Amish vote but a good number of them do and since they don't have phones, I betcha nobody has polled their community. lol!"

In 2004, the Amish in Lancaster voted almost unanimously for GWB. The Lancaster paper mentioned it was the largest number of Amish voting than in any previous election. They do vote. They're distinctly non-Moonbatty. Pro life is #1 on their agenda. On the other hand, the Mennonites, in all of their many forms in Lancaster County, are Moonbatty. Pacifism is what they live for. Unfortunately, the Mennonites outnumber the Amish in this county by at least 2-1. One of the last Lancaster County polls I read recently showed almost a 50-50 split between McCain and The One in the polls here. Not good news at all for McCain. Lancaster County has always gone for the Republican candidate by at least 65% . The Obama campaign is a well oiled machine here. Not so much the McCain machine. I didn't start seeing any McCain signs around the city/county until after McCain picked Sarah. A little too late to play catch up.

I think McCain will get clocked in PA. The unions are too entrenched here.

543 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:40am

re: #489 Desert Dog

I think Killgore agrees Obama sucks (I hope at least), he was just pointing out Palin's weakness in that post. I agreed, she was not ready. But, I would rather have my 2nd Grader or my cat get elected rather than BHO.

Noted. Not saying in this case specifically, but from my observations, no matter how much experience Gov Palin had, it would not be enough. If experience was not the issue, there would be something else to bar her (or frankly-any woman at this time) entry to this position. We have all heard the gamut of "reasons" Gov Palin should not be elected President.....oh yeah... Vice President.

No matter what they say, the Democrats weren't ready and they flushed Sen Clinton down the drain in favor of Obama.

Quite a few Republicans are accepting her ONLY because it is a vote against Obama. This is ridiculous. She can handle the position.

544 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:41am

re: #531 MandyManners

Gotta' go. If Edgar comes slithering in here, beat the snot out of him for me, Lizards!

Yeth, we will phlail that phedopile for youth.

545 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:52am

I'm going to sign out, then back in after I hit Post Comment here...but I wonder if the stock decline would have happened if not for the media & government scare that must have caused people to jump ship.

self fulfilling prophecy?

546 SpartanWoman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:52am

re: #500 Typicalwhitey

McCain just gave a very good speech in PA

I liked it too.

When Obama talks about US Pols getting government run health care, does he mean Fed BCBS?

547 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:56:57am

re: #498 freedomplow

Its time to throw Rezko into the mix. Roll out a new one each week until the election.


* * *
Instead of an honor roll, the dems have a rogues' gallery.

Hey, in Virginia the dems let a former Chicago politician named Rokey Suleman and the Sheriff Barry, visit Fairfax County jails to register inmates for Obama.

www.dcexaminer.com has the story

Fairfax County Elections Staff Visited Jail to Register Inmates

548 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:57:08am

re: #528 Cap'n DOC

Luckily, you ain't taken seriously in this circle.

And what the fuck do you mean by that? Killgore has been a very well like contributor to this blog, even though there are a few issues which many of us would not agree on.

I think you need to think about what you just said. Or are you just nuts?

549 w_h_b  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:57:10am

re: #382 Desert Dog

"Those interviews" did indeed reveal Palin as not quite ready.

Not quite ready for a high pressure quiz show where the hopes and dreams of millions of Americans are resting on her performance. She wasn't quite ready for the cramming her handlers gave her in preparation for the show. Preperation in which she was repeatedly warned, that not only must she know the answer to any question thats asked of her, but she must provide the answer in the correct way because the media is waiting to spin any answer she gives in a negative way..even if it is technically the right one.

No one else in the campaign, rightly or wrongly, was anywhere NEAR the scrutiniy Palin was under in these interviews. No other candidate ever had so much resting on every nuance she said.

Of course she wasn't ready for that.

But this has nothing whatsoever to do with her ability to serve as vice president or president. We'll have to look elsewhere to dermine that. But it is certainly ludicrous to make anything of a failure to perform well in a high pressure quiz environment with so little time for prepping for it.

If she was still giving interviews like this after dozens of interviews...you might have a point. As it is...to give credence to her horrible performance in these interviews is just to be frankly bamboozled. Like Kathleen Turner was.

Bamboozled into confusing a staged performance with real world competence.

I'm not saying that stagecraft is not an important part of politics and and governance. I'm just saying that it is something that has to be learned by most people. And to say that someone is still learning that part of the job is not a bad thing. I kind of like it myself.

550 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:57:14am

re: #540 Kyle_st

nice avatar Kyle_st.

/

551 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:57:24am

re: #436 Desert Dog

All the folks at my local Hutterite Winery are McCain/Palin supporters. They run a cash only business.

552 jill e  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:57:44am

There is SO much more on Obama than Kerry (Swiftboaters), and yet it's going nowhere. Is this because of McCain? It's very frustrating!

553 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:16am

re: #293 Cognito

Otherwise, I should add, she's making a great speech.

Alert the whatchacallit.

554 dmjung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:23am

re: #131 Cognito

I'm not sure how a 3 day rolling average poll on just registered voters (and how is that verified/sample-pulled?) is going to get it right. If "they want to get it right", they need a different sample and weight the results correctly...I know this, anyone who understands polling knows this, and they know this. Since they know this poll, as produced, will be inaccurate as a predicter of the election results, what is the point of taking it and publishing it?

Of interest, the last sentence in their poll reads "In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls." So, basically this is a somewhat generic "public opinion poll" and not really geared to getting it right with regards to the election results.

555 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:38am

re: #536 Cognito

His comments about the Catholic Church are beyond the pale, Cognito - so in this case - your opinion don't mean much to me either.

556 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:42am

re: #528 Cap'n DOC

Luckily, you ain't taken seriously in this circle.

And he has been on this blog about twice as long as you. Do you think he hangs around becuase no one takes him seriously?

What a jerk you are.

557 SFGoth  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:45am

re: #547 alegrias

* * *
Instead of an honor roll, the dems have a rogues' gallery.

Hey, in Virginia the dems let a former Chicago politician named Rokey Suleman and the Sheriff Barry, visit Fairfax County jails to register inmates for Obama.

www.dcexaminer.com has the story

Fairfax County Elections Staff Visited Jail to Register Inmates

Wow. I grew up in FFx co.

558 Rednek  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:49am

re: #447 Joan

OT: I received this email from a Democrat friend, someone clearly getting the Politburo Propaganda Scenario in advance, just that little added dollop of emotional blackmail and insult that every election needs to ensure that bitterness and slander perpetuate forever--oh, not mention justifying violent action following defeat in a contested election. Here it is, my Democrat friend, sadly speculating whether I'm not actually racist:

"You are The Boss... Which team would you hire with America facing historic debt, two wars, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc.?

Educational Background:


OBAMA
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

BIDEN
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

MCCAIN

United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

PALIN

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

Some Points to Consider:

What if John McCain were a former president of the Harvard Law Review? What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the first woman he said 'I do' to? What if Obama were the candidate who left his first wife after she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were a wife who not only became addicted to pain killers, but acquired them illegally through her charitable organization? What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama were a member of the Keating-5? What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference."

Two lawyers vs Two non- lawyers

I'll take the non-lawyers. Thanks for asking.

559 calcajun  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:58:59am

Okay, if we are to believe this, then the GOP must be in its death throes. Given that, then, according to Dr. Kubler-Ross, and the five stages of death and dying; denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance, many of us are in the first two stages, while a few pundits, like Dr. Krauthammer, have jumped right into the acceptance phase.

Bullshit.
I have a hard time believing that the American electorate will choose a pure socialist (judging from today's revelation) with no track record to speak of over an admittedly old, but vital man who, while no true conservative, his views are closer to ours than his opponent.

The distinctions between the two men have to keep being drawn. The failure of the markets have to be explained in terms of Dem responsibility and GOP prescience. Keep on pounding the message and it will resonate.

560 redstateredneck  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:59:33am

re: #540 Kyle_st

Unfortunately, McCain has almost NO chance of beating the "Chosen One" at this point. A turnaround now is highly unlikely, barring a "Hail Mary" play that devastates Obama (Rezko talking, or something like that).

It's over. Get used to 4-8 years of the Messiah, and kiss the character of this country good-bye

Well, you're the hopeful one!

561 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:59:36am

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

And what the fuck do you mean by that? Killgore has been a very well like contributor to this blog, even though there are a few issues which many of us would not agree on.

I think you need to think about what you just said. Or are you just nuts?

Up-ding to that.

/otherwise, I've been staying out of it

562 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:59:43am

re: #520 Last Mohican

Another point: we don't have Obama's academic records to look at, but graduating from Columbia without honors is not good enough to get one into Harvard Law School, even with the help of affirmative action. He'd need an alumnus parent, or someone who's either rich or powerful paving the way.

* * **
Khalid Al Mansoor is the Saudi wahhabist contact active in Chicago & Obama supporter who got Obama into law school.

(from Hannity special Sunday night on the rogues' gallery)

563 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:59:48am

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

Consider me nuts, Walter. Ding me. It only hurts for a minute.

564 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:59:49am

re: #526 buzzsawmonkey

True: and he was considered a cheap wardheeler of the Pendergast machine when FDR reluctantly took him on for the sake of re-election. Totally dismissed as a lightweight and failure--but remembered as a great man.

Truman was, in many ways, a great man. The Dems don't make men like him these days. He would be appalled by the elite snobbism and outright hypocrisy that the Democrat Party symbolizes.

565 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 11:59:57am

re: #555 Cap'n DOC

His comments about the Catholic Church are beyond the pale, Cognito - so in this case - your opinion don't mean much to me either.

Mandy, come back and *whack* this butthole for me.

566 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:00:10pm

re: #551 Cap'n DOC

I always thought the Amish were make believe. That is, until I almost ran into a horse cart driving through Lancaster a few years back. Interesting bunch, those Amish.

567 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:00:28pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

OT: I'm guessing the wild swings in the DOW today means we might be seeing the bottom. The Market wants to continue its downward momentum but there are enough bargains out there that people are buying.

Wait till the bell. Only the last 30 minutes matters...

568 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:00:29pm

re: #556 Walter L. Newton

I'll say what I think, Walter.

569 zenren  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:00:59pm

re: #542 SagamoreGal

"Our Amish housekeeper just told me that she and her husband are voting for McCain/Palin. Not all Amish vote but a good number of them do and since they don't have phones, I betcha nobody has polled their community. lol!"

In 2004, the Amish in Lancaster voted almost unanimously for GWB. The Lancaster paper mentioned it was the largest number of Amish voting than in any previous election. They do vote. They're distinctly non-Moonbatty. Pro life is #1 on their agenda. On the other hand, the Mennonites, in all of their many forms in Lancaster County, are Moonbatty. Pacifism is what they live for. Unfortunately, the Mennonites outnumber the Amish in this county by at least 2-1. One of the last Lancaster County polls I read recently showed almost a 50-50 split between McCain and The One in the polls here. Not good news at all for McCain. Lancaster County has always gone for the Republican candidate by at least 65% . The Obama campaign is a well oiled machine here. Not so much the McCain machine. I didn't start seeing any McCain signs around the city/county until after McCain picked Sarah. A little too late to play catch up.

I think McCain will get clocked in PA. The unions are too entrenched here.

I think some of the union folks are going to break towards McCain. I've been hearing from a number of people in different unions who say - in private - that they are not seeing a lot of support for Obama. They tell me this is the first time that they will ever vote Republican. They look kinda crushed when they say that.

570 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:01:23pm

re: #563 Cap'n DOC

Consider me nuts, Walter. Ding me. It only hurts for a minute.

And what do you think about Baptists?

571 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:01:33pm

re: #559 calcajun

It will be close and could go either way. Whoever wins, it will not be a landslide...

572 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:01:42pm

re: #562 alegrias

That's the story I heard too. Naturally the Obama campaign denies it.

573 freedomplow  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:01:59pm

MSNBC is starting to show a pattern of cutting off McCain's speeches every time brings up Freddie and Fannie. Now the SNL skit.

574 DeafDog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:02:01pm

re: #485 lawhawk

I think you're getting Biden confused with Mark Foley. Or Barney Frank.

Biden was hit with repeated charges of plagiarism.

oops....spelling is important.

I knew it was one of those isms...

575 wright1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:02:04pm

re: #500 Typicalwhitey

McCain just gave a very good speech in PA

Was he saving that one?

576 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:02:15pm

re: #536 Cognito

I'm very unpopular with a lot of lizards. It doesn't bother me. If I were too well liked it wouldn't be any fun.

577 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:02:39pm

re: #530 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, for those already thinking of tomorrow evening's break-fast: Yum! Kippers!

on a dark rye

578 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:02:47pm

re: #569 zenren

I think some of the union folks are going to break towards McCain. I've been hearing from a number of people in different unions who say - in private - that they are not seeing a lot of support for Obama. They tell me this is the first time that they will ever vote Republican. They look kinda crushed when they say that.


* * *
Sarah Palin's household is a union household, her husband is a card carrying union member, and many of her relatives including her parents were teachers.

579 armytramp  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:02:48pm

re: #447 Joan

That's interesting.

It shows us how they think, but it also shows us that they value little or no experience as long as it comes with an expensive piece of paper to back it up.

In other words, an elitist world view.

To me, extensive life experience and extensive job experience always trump a degree or school performance.

Palin's family could probably not have afforded to go to Harvard if her life depended on it. But if she's governor of an entire state and doing a good job at it, let's all ignore it and take a look at her lowly origins!

I have more than 25 years experience in my field of business, but if I had to go get certain jobs tomorrow, I could not because I do not have a bachelor's degree. Some dumb kid who paid a lot of money to skate through school for four years could get the gig.

Fortunately, getting jobs is not usually a problem and in my field "bachelor's degree or equivalent" usually shows up in job descriptions.

But expecting us to give a damn about McCain's school record from 30 years ago, as if it trumps every other accomplishment in his life? That's elitist and stupid.

It takes a special kind of reverse racism to expect us to admire Obama, with very little real world experience, over McCain with ideas and accomplishments we believe in, and who has decades of life and professional experience to back it up.

Obama is an intellectual lightweight who was a student of poor accomplishment until affirmative action got him a place in Harvard he didn't earn. While excelling in Harvard as the poster boy, he has not been particularly accomplished in public service.

What these goons are trying to do is to get us to affirmative action Obama right into the presidency. If he were some wrinkly white guy spouting the same crap, they would not be nearly so enthralled with him for anything he says, and he'd be villified for his ACORN and Ayers connections.

The racists are supporting Obama.

580 Semper Gumbi  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:03:07pm

re: #444 Gorgonzola

Lizard people. I have a question. The benefit of your experience please.

John McCain and Sarah Palin have Ayers and Wright as ammunition, and they're using it. The GOP's mobilised the surrogates to press it. It's powerful stuff, and they're spending serious money on it.

Does anyone have the slightest idea why McCain didn't use it last night?

I mean, if it's valuable enough to advertise, and McCain NEEDS fireworks, why didn't he drop it?

And don't say "He's leaving it to the surrogates." That won't do. If he doesn't use the heavy guns, in public, he's not going to win the election. Sorry, but he's just not. So what's the deal?

The forum wasn't right. No question about character was asked that would have allowed him an opening. To have just come out and hit Obama with Ayers and Wright would have turned off more people than it would have helped.

Maybe in the next debate.

581 Suzette  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:03:16pm

re: #552 jill e

There is SO much more on Obama than Kerry (Swiftboaters), and yet it's going nowhere. Is this because of McCain? It's very frustrating!

I don't think it is because of McCain. I think it is suppressed as soon as it is mentioned. The media are squashing it.
So I do my very best to get the stuff out to anyone I know.
/and I know a lot of democrats who are crossing the aisle to vote McCain/Palin.

582 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:03:36pm

I feel we are listening to the last days on Conservative talk radio right now,if Obama finishes stealing this election.Soon to follow after that,this internet.
Then the 2nd amendment will be gone.To be followed by a police state.

583 redstateredneck  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:04:00pm

Rezko's sentencing date put off until December. Good news for Obamba.

584 yma o hyd  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:04:03pm

re: #500 Typicalwhitey

McCain just gave a very good speech in PA

Could it be - this question just occurred to me - could it be that McCain and his campaign managers have written off the TV debates as main vote winners?

They obviously know that they're running against the MSM as well as the DNC and B0 - so, might they not think they can influence voters better with these stump speeches?

585 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:04:35pm
586 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:04:40pm

re: #568 Cap'n DOC

I'll say what I think, Walter.

And that's fine. But where in the fucking hell do you think you can come off speaking for EVERYONE on here? If you don't take Killgore seriously, then fine. But your implication was most people here don't take him seriously.

Who the fuck made you g-d.

587 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:04:47pm

re: #556 Walter L. Newton

Don't take me seriously. Hit me with a club.

588 DeafDog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:04:50pm

re: #491 rightymouse

We're in Ohio and they are already registered voters. :)

Maybe you can go hang out with their Amish friends....club them like baby seals, register them to vote, and pull the lever for JSM.

(I read about that tactic in an ACORN manual)

589 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:05:38pm

re: #570 Walter L. Newton

What does that have to do with anything? I will answer the question, but here again, this is just me.

I do not agree with their beliefs, and they do not agree with mine. That does not make them on an individual basis any 'better' or 'worse' than I am. I love them (in Charity) because I should.

590 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:05:53pm

re: #587 Killgore Trout

LOL

591 jsk1121  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:07pm

re: #586 Walter L. Newton

And that's fine. But where in the fucking hell do you think you can come off speaking for EVERYONE on here? If you don't take Killgore seriously, then fine. But your implication was most people here don't take him seriously.

Who the fuck made you g-d Obama.

Fixed!

592 jill e  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:14pm

re: #576 Killgore Trout

I'm very unpopular with a lot of lizards. It doesn't bother me. If I were too well liked it wouldn't be any fun.

Just because we disagree with you, doesn't mean we don't love you! I pray for you all the time! And in a Catholic chapel! :-))

593 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:25pm

re: #587 Killgore Trout

Man, looks like she got hit with the ugly stick, not the club

594 Joan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:27pm

Hey, frogmarch: "DDLLLSSKGHFKK and DDLSKSSLLLFFT." What is?

595 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:28pm

re: #576 Killgore Trout

I'm very unpopular with a lot of lizards. It doesn't bother me. If I were too well liked it wouldn't be any fun.

Yea, but this asshat started talking for OTHER Lizards. I don't care if he doesn't agree with you, but he's not some sort of hall monitor who is giving out "we don't like Killgore" notes.

Fuck him. Yes, I'm mad.

596 Semper Gumbi  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:42pm

re: #540 Kyle_st

Unfortunately, McCain has almost NO chance of beating the "Chosen One" at this point. A turnaround now is highly unlikely, barring a "Hail Mary" play that devastates Obama (Rezko talking, or something like that).

It's over. Get used to 4-8 years of the Messiah, and kiss the character of this country good-bye


People claimed the same about George Bush this time four years ago. Let's wait and see how the next week or so go before throwing in the towel. (Bush was down 8 at this point in 2004 - numbers posted up-thread)

597 MrSnuggles  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:56pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

"police state" ie. that "voluntary" force of brownshirts that obama wants to create. "Voluntarily" of course.

598 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:06:57pm

re: #576 Killgore Trout

I'm very unpopular with a lot of lizards. It doesn't bother me. If I were too well liked it wouldn't be any fun.

Heh! There is definitely a difference between a troll and a trout.

/said with respect (though not always agreement)

599 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:07:03pm

re: #580 Semper Gumbi

My expectation is that the GOP is going to start trotting out Ayers, Wright, Rezko and the like not during the last debate, but after it. Obama's associates are so scummy that even having McCain discuss them himself, on stage, could make McCain look less dignified and presidential. Therefore, why not launch some TV ads later. That way they can show videos of Wright's rants, etc., and have the narrating voice be some anonymous person rather than McCain.

600 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:07:07pm

re: #529 Killgore Trout

Regardless how you feel about him personally he is taken seriously by economists. He might not pass right wing purity tests but he would have been a good choice. One of the main reasons we're in this mess is because of the pointless demands of purity from conservatives about irrelevant issues. Republicans would do much better to focus on small government, lower taxes and give up the abortion, anti-gay marriage stuff.


With due respect, the first "test" of any Vice Presidential candidate is NOT sinking the electability of the nominee!

Bloomberg is taken seriously by economists? Big @#$ing deal. How many of them in critical swing states vote for President?

I agree, that a Republican candidate doesn't have to be 100% ideologically pure in terms of Conservatism, but how about 20%? Bloomberg doesn't even make the grade there.

Sure he's fiscally conservative, but that's about it. He's against guns, against the death penalty, increased property taxes while mayor, is pro-gay marriage, favored amnesty for illegal aliens, and of course supports abortion. He also trying to increase term limits in NYC so he can run for mayor again.

In sum with the exception of protectionism, he's on the wrong side of just about EVERY issue Conservatives feel passionately about, and he's a textbook Democrat. Picking him would guarantee that Republican donations dried up and that large swaths of the electorate would stay home on election day.

Oh yeah. . .he also left the Republican party last year.

601 Oldasdirt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:07:11pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

A police state? But Bill Ayers wants to off the pigs! How can this be?

Just change the color of there shirts,from blue to brown.Worked for Hitler.

602 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:07:37pm

re: #566 Desert Dog

I always thought the Amish were make believe. That is, until I almost ran into a horse cart driving through Lancaster a few years back. Interesting bunch, those Amish.


The Amish are pretty cool people...They sell nice furniture and they sell alot of food around here.. The potatoe salad is to die for..

603 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:07:43pm

re: #583 redstateredneck

Rezko's sentencing date put off until December. Good news for Obamba.


But the point is..He was found GUILTY!
Another POS from the "O"s closet!

604 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:08:04pm

re: #529 Killgore Trout

Regardless how you feel about him personally he is taken seriously by economists. He might not pass right wing purity tests but he would have been a good choice. One of the main reasons we're in this mess is because of the pointless demands of purity from conservatives about irrelevant issues. Republicans would do much better to focus on small government, lower taxes and give up the abortion, anti-gay marriage stuff.

Doesn't Bloomberg prove that the Republican party has a "big tent"?

605 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:08:15pm

Can anyone, anywhere give just one example of one of Barack Obama's accomplishments? Some project or piece of legislation that he initiated, worked on and followed through with until it was successfully completed?

Just one?

606 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:08:38pm

re: #589 Cap'n DOC

What does that have to do with anything? I will answer the question, but here again, this is just me.

I do not agree with their beliefs, and they do not agree with mine. That does not make them on an individual basis any 'better' or 'worse' than I am. I love them (in Charity) because I should.

Then you can buck up and like Killgore (in charity). What a fucking patronizing attitude, you fart. Holier than thou.

607 kawfytawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:08:50pm

re: #578 alegrias

* * *
Sarah Palin's household is a union household, her husband is a card carrying union member, and many of her relatives including her parents were teachers.

I like Sarah Palin....and frankly I wouldn't mind if she were #1 on the ticket. I don't give a rats patooty about the experience... although a governorship is hardly a lack of experience. I find her to be a breath of fresh air and committed to serving our country which is sooooooo much better than those elitist arses who only want the title.

Some of the very best employees I have ever had are the ones who are new to the company and not entrenched in the "way we have always done it" mode

608 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:09pm

re: #605 Intrepid

Can anyone, anywhere give just one example of one of Barack Obama's accomplishments? Some project or piece of legislation that he initiated, worked on and followed through with until it was successfully completed?

Just one?

He is the Messiah. He made the dead rise and vote for him in Illinois.

609 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:10pm

re: #587 Killgore Trout

Don't take me seriously. Hit me with a club.


ah crap Killgore..that site is blocked for me..
Hint?

610 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:14pm

re: #605 Intrepid


He has fooled about 48% of the US into thinking he should be President. That is quite an accomplishment

611 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:23pm

re: #429 buzzsawmonkey

G'mar Chatimah Tova to you and all our Jewish lizards...see you tomorrow night, as my husband has to eat around 5 PM, in order to get to the Synagogue to observe the start of Yom Kippur. I do not fast, as I am a diabetic, on insulin. He is also a diabetic, but thank G-d, not on medication.

In Judaism, health comes first, even on the holiest of days.

Have an easy fast!

612 Captkirk35  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:29pm

Another point I'd like to see McCain make better during the last debate is to puncture a hole in the cannard that Obama will cut taxes instead of raise them.

Once the lights of the campaign dim, and he has the power to set his agenda, he'll state that the economy has forced him to decided between his spending proposals (dressed up in pretty language, of course), and tax cuts, and that the country cannot afford to NOT move forward without his proposals.

McCain should spell out that, in no uncertain terms, will the special intersts on the Left allow Obama to prioritize tax cuts above their desires. He should point out that Obama says one thing to sound electable during a General Election campaign, but once this small window closes, we'll be right back to the status quo, with a weak and feckless Obama (with an eye out towards his re-election) bowing to the most extreme elements on the Left.

613 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:45pm
614 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:09:53pm

OT:
Watch for moonbats to make hay out of a McCain gaffe at that gathering in PA - instead of saying my fellow citizens, he said "my fellow prisoners."

Right, as though Obama getting 57 states, saying that PA people were bitter and clingy about their guns, etc. are just misstatements that are due to Obama being tired or other such nonsense.

615 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:09pm
616 Last Mohican  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:11pm

re: #583 redstateredneck

Rezko's sentencing date put off until December. Good news for Obamba.

AP's story on this:

...But [Rezko] did not supply any money to Obama's current campaign and the Democratic candidate for president has not been accused of any wrongdoing.

Thanks for clarifying, AP.

617 inactivism  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:20pm

(Delurking - greetings, fellow lizards...)

Please don't forget, some (if not many) people tell pollsters what they think they are expected to say, especially where race or other hot-button issues are concerned.

Even someone who has no racist inclination tends to be extra careful to avoid the appearance of racism -- ironically, due to the hyper-sensitivity that surrounds the subject.

I'm not placing any bets, but I doubt that the polls are even near close to being accurate in this election cycle. The Obamanoids may be setting themselves up for a massive disappointment. And an excuse to riot.

618 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:25pm

re: #586 Walter L. Newton

Okay. I apologize - including you and everyone who comments here - for including you in 'the circle'.

It was just me.

619 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:26pm

re: #605 Intrepid

Can anyone, anywhere give just one example of one of Barack Obama's accomplishments? Some project or piece of legislation that he initiated, worked on and followed through with until it was successfully completed?

Just one?

That's been my observation too - that the man has no staying power and substance. Most people work quite a bit on their career - he seems to flit around. Couldn't even wait until the end of his first term in the Senate. There is very much a pattern there.

620 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:32pm

re: #393 debutaunt

Other ____X____

621 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:34pm

As I am staying in North Carolina right now (in the Cary / Morrisville area, which is very close to Raleigh and Durham) - I have only seen one Obama bumper sticker and one Obama t-shirt (on a man in a movie theater.)

I have seen McCain house signs and bumper stickers, though. Roughly a dozen.

It seems odd in a Presidential election to see so little of Obama around here.

622 Desert Dog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:41pm

re: #613 buzzsawmonkey

What do the "Truth Squads" wear now? Shirts with big "T's" on them?

623 bryanbrigade  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:10:57pm

November 08 arrives... the icy winds blow... Narnia descends into pale gloom...Aslan's voice is lost in the howling. It's Barak's Beginning...

ANd I was just getting my lousy coat when I fell into this place!

Time to go find the Beavers.... and rebuild the republican party!

624 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:11:12pm
625 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:11:13pm

Come se dice en Ingles?

Ah, si .... BULLSHIT
Mierda de res

626 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:11:14pm

re: #611 NY Nana

G'mar Chatimah Tova to you and all our Jewish lizards...see you tomorrow night, as my husband has to eat around 5 PM, in order to get to the Synagogue to observe the start of Yom Kippur. I do not fast, as I am a diabetic, on insulin. He is also a diabetic, but thank G-d, not on medication.

In Judaism, health comes first, even on the holiest of days.

Have an easy fast!

You as well and may your name have been inscribed in the book of life.

627 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:11:19pm

re: #605 Intrepid

Can anyone, anywhere give just one example of one of Barack Obama's accomplishments? Some project or piece of legislation that he initiated, worked on and followed through with until it was successfully completed?

Just one?

Racist!

628 dentate  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:11:49pm

re: #611 NY Nana

It will be a tougher fast than usual since I am still nauseated by the debate.

629 DeafDog  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:06pm

re: #605 Intrepid

Can anyone, anywhere give just one example of one of Barack Obama's accomplishments? Some project or piece of legislation that he initiated, worked on and followed through with until it was successfully completed?

Just one?

In case you are being serious, there is 1 - He actualy worked with Rich Lugar on a bill to spend money securing Russia's nukes...it was a non-controversial issue.

BTW - the best moment of the debate last night (a factoid I had not hear previously) was when McCain said of Obama, "When he was running for the state senate, he promised a tax cut. But he never once tried to do that while in office."

...with Obama what you see (or hear) is not what you'll get!

630 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:14pm

re: #618 Cap'n DOC

Okay. I apologize - including you and everyone who comments here - for including you in 'the circle'. It was just me.

Ok, I can accept that. If you have a problem with Killgore, keep it between you and him. Thank you. Peace again.

631 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:16pm

re: #600 looking closely

If McCain had chosen Bloomberg, he'd have had to fight just to keep the Southern states, because he'd have been in serious jeopardy of losing all the evangelical vote.

And forget the southern border states.

Some of the ads that are making the biggest impact in PA and OH are NRA ads - you think the NRA would have spent mega bucks on electing Mike Bloomberg anywhere close to the presidency?

632 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:27pm

re: #583 redstateredneck

Rezko's sentencing date put off until December. Good news for Obamba.


Maybe not. The feds asked for a postponement because Rezko is singing like a canary.

633 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:28pm

re: #602 HoosierHoops

The Amish are pretty cool people...They sell nice furniture and they sell alot of food around here.. The potatoe salad is to die for..


They are also extremely honest people and aren't goofed up by worldly cynicism. I enjoy them immensely.

634 dmjung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:35pm

re: #382 Desert Dog

...The right loves her, but the right was going to vote for McCain either way. As much of a bolstering she gave McCain from the right, I fear they may have lost some fence-sitters to Obama in the middle.

I disagree, I think without Palin, McCain would not have anywhere near the turn-out in the conservative base that he is going to get now. I'm in central Texas and the number of McCain/Palin yard signs that have gone up compared to the older McCain only signs is phenomenal/remarkable/mind-boggling. I suspect that the number of fence-sitters lost due to Palin is dwarfed by the number of conservative voters that are now energized into voting for this ticket (and in many cases were not going to vote for McCain until Palin came along.)

635 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:12:50pm

re: #599 Last Mohican

My expectation is that the GOP is going to start trotting out Ayers, Wright, Rezko and the like not during the last debate, but after it. Obama's associates are so scummy that even having McCain discuss them himself, on stage, could make McCain look less dignified and presidential. Therefore, why not launch some TV ads later. That way they can show videos of Wright's rants, etc., and have the narrating voice be some anonymous person rather than McCain.

* ** *

Just yesterday morning on Fox & Friends morning program on Fox News Cable, Rudy Giuliani spoke at length about William Ayers the unsavory domestic terrorist who bombed New York police offices and gloated about it.

636 yma o hyd  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:13:14pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

A police state? But Bill Ayers wants to off the pigs! How can this be?

Some pigs are more equal than others?

637 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:13:26pm

re: #614 lawhawk

OT:
Watch for moonbats to make hay out of a McCain gaffe at that gathering in PA - instead of saying my fellow citizens, he said "my fellow prisoners."

Right, as though Obama getting 57 states, saying that PA people were bitter and clingy about their guns, etc. are just misstatements that are due to Obama being tired or other such nonsense.


We may all be 'prisoners' if The One wins.

638 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:13:28pm
639 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:13:36pm

re: #606 Walter L. Newton

Hey, Walter. I don't a lecture from you. MOF, I'll expect the next time he lays a big one on the Catholic Church, you're gonna step right up and call him on it, right?

640 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:13pm
641 Occasional Reader  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:21pm

re: #625 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Mierda de res

Too literal a translation. "Porquería" is better, or "boludéz" if you're in Argentina or Uruguay.

642 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:35pm

Farewell for Yom Kippur from my temporary resting place in North Carolina.

Jewish LGFers -

May you be sealed for a good year in the book of life (and have an easy fast!)

643 kansas  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:45pm

re: #583 redstateredneck

Rezko's sentencing date put off until December. Good news for Obamba.


Typical voter..........What's a Rezko?

644 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:45pm

re: #624 buzzsawmonkey

If the asteroid is going to hit over the Sudan, maybe it can be persuaded to land on the leadership there and solve the Darfur problem.

It already broke up over the Sudan. It's been triangulated already and a KLM airliner saw it break up and they have a good isea where fragments MAY be found. The big boy meteorite hunters are already hot on it's trail.

See toward the bottom of this thread link...

[Link: six.pairlist.net...]

645 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:58pm

re: #642 Adina in Judea

Likewise

646 doppelganglander  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:14:58pm

re: #621 Adina in Judea

As I am staying in North Carolina right now (in the Cary / Morrisville area, which is very close to Raleigh and Durham) - I have only seen one Obama bumper sticker and one Obama t-shirt (on a man in a movie theater.)

I have seen McCain house signs and bumper stickers, though. Roughly a dozen.

It seems odd in a Presidential election to see so little of Obama around here.

That's surprising, as the Research Triangle Park is crawling with moonbats.

647 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:16:01pm
648 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:16:25pm

re: #644 Walter L. Newton

It already broke up over the Sudan. It's been triangulated already and a KLM airliner saw it break up and they have a good isea where fragments MAY be found. The big boy meteorite hunters are already hot on it's trail.

See toward the bottom of this thread link...

[Link: six.pairlist.net...]

Whew! so I can come out the bat cave now Walter?

649 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:16:33pm

All right Lizards, I am in my usual confused state.

Aren't the election ads suppossed to stop 30 days before the election (or something). The McCain-Feingold upheaval of election shenanigans?

650 Cap'n DOC  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:16:51pm

re: #630 Walter L. Newton

Perhaps I should be more charitable to him as well.

re: #587 Killgore Trout

I'm sorry, Killgore. Forgive me for being an Ass.

651 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:17:00pm

re: #634 dmjung

I disagree, I think without Palin, McCain would not have anywhere near the turn-out in the conservative base that he is going to get now. I'm in central Texas and the number of McCain/Palin yard signs that have gone up compared to the older McCain only signs is phenomenal/remarkable/mind-boggling. I suspect that the number of fence-sitters lost due to Palin is dwarfed by the number of conservative voters that are now energized into voting for this ticket (and in many cases were not going to vote for McCain until Palin came along.)

Most of us were going to vote AGAINST Obama, with our noses held tightly, just like McCain's Mom said.

652 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:17:13pm

re: #597 MrSnuggles

"police state" ie. that "voluntary" force of brownshirts that obama wants to create. "Voluntarily" of course.

I went to his web site yesterday to look at what he's proposing. It's all just big fluffy words with no real content. No clear objective, no problem to solve.....it's like he invented a process without a problem or a solution to go with it.

Here's the page on it....

653 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:17:21pm

re: #555 Cap'n DOC

His comments about the Catholic Church are beyond the pale, Cognito - so in this case - your opinion don't mean much to me either.

preach it brother man.

654 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:17:39pm

re: #607 kawfytawk

I like Sarah Palin....and frankly I wouldn't mind if she were #1 on the ticket. I don't give a rats patooty about the experience... although a governorship is hardly a lack of experience. I find her to be a breath of fresh air and committed to serving our country which is sooooooo much better than those elitist arses who only want the title.

Some of the very best employees I have ever had are the ones who are new to the company and not entrenched in the "way we have always done it" mode

* * *
Palin had the moxie to stand up to Frank Murkowski her powerful predecessor, and Ted Stevens the longtime porkbarreller and she toppled both of them, or at least knocked them off their stinking pedestals. Palin cleaned house.

Had Palin been charged with doing something about Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, those porky dems who ripped it off would have been tossed out on their behinds in the mean streets of DC.

Palin's champ like the 1980 US Winter Olymic Hockey Team were champs that beat the entrenched, experienced, beefy USSR team for the gold.

655 transient  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:17:44pm

re: #416 CantonJim

Can anyone tell me if the national 'do-not-call" register? Are those numbers excluded from polling?

No.

Placing your number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most telemarketing calls, but not all. Because of limitations in the jurisdiction of the FTC and FCC, calls from or on behalf of political organizations, charities, and telephone surveyors would still be permitted, as would calls from companies with which you have an existing business relationship, or those to whom you’ve provided express agreement in writing to receive their calls.
656 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:18:12pm
657 alegrias  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:18:35pm

re: #625 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Come se dice en Ingles?

Ah, si .... BULLSHIT
Mierda de res


* * *
You could say caca de toro.

658 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:19:11pm

re: #436 Desert Dog

My Puritan gardener thinks Obama is an asshole, as does my Shaker plumber.

j/k :-)

According to my Mayan calendar-maker...

659 mfarmer1  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:20:31pm

Just when you think the western world has sunk to new lows as evidenced by the latest financial turmoil, there's always Memritv.org to the rescue to put things in perspective and provide a few chuckles and chortles.

Devious Jews plant non talking trees to thwart Muslim war plans

These clips would be good for the McCain campaign.

660 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:20:50pm

re: #619 rightymouse

That's been my observation too - that the man has no staying power and substance. Most people work quite a bit on their career - he seems to flit around. Couldn't even wait until the end of his first term in the Senate. There is very much a pattern there.

He's done virtually nothing from conception to completion. He worked on a few boards and foundations, but the projects he was involved with in education/crime prevention/housing improvements haven't worked. The 100,000 dollar park? It's only a 10,000 dollar gazebo. The "born-alive" act? Sole dissenting voice.

And in the US Senate? What legislation has he sponsored/pushed/been a major part of? We know he has never convened the sub-committee he chairs, so he hasn't done that part of his senate job.

So basically, he's only ever successfully campaigned for office.....that's his only accomplishment.

661 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:21:43pm

re: #613 buzzsawmonkey

green shirts! Ain't that the f@ckin' truth.

Now, I am really scared.

"Hi, I'm here from the EPA, and I'm here to help."

gah!

662 Elcid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:21:55pm

This is what our nation is doing to itself.

This false guilt, spread by people like the Obama's, Wright's in this country...AND by GOD, that is exactly what we are going to get, with the election of the Messiah.

Planned from the very start.

663 Vergeltung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:21:57pm

re: #586 Walter L. Newton

And that's fine. But where in the fucking hell do you think you can come off speaking for EVERYONE on here? If you don't take Killgore seriously, then fine. But your implication was most people here don't take him seriously.
Who the fuck made you g-d.

easy chief, you'll pop your hernia again.

664 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:22:34pm
665 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:22:35pm

re: #658 debutaunt

According to my Mayan calendar-maker...


68% of all Sun Dial Winders prefer McCain.

666 dentate  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:22:43pm

re: #644 Walter L. Newton

It already broke up over the Sudan. It's been triangulated already and a KLM airliner saw it break up and they have a good isea where fragments MAY be found. The big boy meteorite hunters are already hot on it's trail.

See toward the bottom of this thread link...

[Link: six.pairlist.net...]

Fear was great in the mouth of the Sanddwellers. Therefore their doors were closed, and they did not step out of their door for fear of the bull. A king he is, strong, an excellent fortress for his army, a wall of metal of the sky . He seizes every land with his power without there being millions of men around him, who shoots accurately whenever he aims, whose arrows do not miss; strong, there was none like him, Monthu, strong on the battlefield.

667 nacazo  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:22:53pm

Do your own research. Who is George Soros and what is his relationship with Obama?

George Soros is shorting the market and wants to see the US go into a Depression. With his friend Obama at the helm he could achieve it.

668 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:23:22pm

re: #615 Occasional Reader

first the man-made black hole, now a nature-made asteroid.

We've had some real near misses lately.


LOL

669 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:23:38pm

re: #641 Occasional Reader

Too literal a translation. "Porquería" is better, or "boludéz" if you're in Argentina or Uruguay.


Pero mi familia es de Centro America donde "mierda" es mas que suficiente.

670 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:24:06pm

re: #627 looking closely

Racist!

Poopy head!

heh - they carry about the same weight now, since supposedly mature adults are slinging the "r" word around about as much as little kids sling about the "PH" one. And in much the same amount of "snitty-ness"

671 J.S.  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:24:18pm

re: #554 dmjung

I also noticed that (or at least I was unable to find) the methodology section was extremely limited...it simply did not provide the necessary information. In other words, if Gallup were, indeed, conducting a legitimate, trustworthy, scientific poll, then they would have specified precisely their methodology (so precisely that a skeptic would be able to replicate their poll -- that is, conduct a similar poll based on Gallup's methodology -- and then one could expect to find a similar result as to that of Gallup's. BUT, because Gallup doesn't release the info about WHO was phoned?, How was this group selected?, Who DID NOT respond?, etc, etc, etc, -- this becomes yet another garbage poll...little better than any Internet "poll" conducted by CNN...)

672 TN_Vol  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:24:45pm

re: #552 jill e

There is SO much more on Obama than Kerry (Swiftboaters), and yet it's going nowhere. Is this because of McCain? It's very frustrating!


Unfortunately "Swiftboaters" has become a pejorative term and any question of Obama's past is met with an "oh, that's just swiftboating" and is dismissed.

I've never heard specifically what the Swiftboaters were supposed to have lied about.

673 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:25:23pm

re: #631 Intrepid

My gives 100% of campaign donations to the NRA.

674 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:25:59pm
675 Hard Right  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:26:14pm

re: #140 taxfreekiller

How many of you have been polled in 2008

Yes _____

No _No______

676 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:26:38pm

re: #631 Intrepid

If McCain had chosen Bloomberg, he'd have had to fight just to keep the Southern states, because he'd have been in serious jeopardy of losing all the evangelical vote.

And forget the southern border states.

Some of the ads that are making the biggest impact in PA and OH are NRA ads - you think the NRA would have spent mega bucks on electing Mike Bloomberg anywhere close to the presidency?


Of course not.

There is a reason why Bloomberg was never a Republican until he decided to run for public office, and there is a reason he left the Republican party recently (now that his term is nearly over).

That reason is because he is a Democrat and always has been his entire life! Perhaps he's a "moderate" Democrat, or more accurately a Democrat with some sensible economic policies, but he's certainly no Republican.

As such, tapping him for VP would just be sheer stupidity. . .McCain isn't that stupid, and neither is his campaign. If McCain needs his input, he *might* be an OK choice in some sort of economic advisory role in a McCain administration (as would Romney).

677 jaunte  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:26:40pm

re: #674 buzzsawmonkey

Evidence has become an old-fashioned concept.

678 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:26:46pm

re: #485 lawhawk

I think you're getting Biden confused with Mark Foley. Or Barney Frank.

Biden was hit with repeated charges of plagiarism.

hahahahahhahahahaa

679 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:26:56pm

re: #669 Hooray for Captain Spaulding
Please press 1 for english...

680 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:27:02pm

re: #660 Intrepid

He's done virtually nothing from conception to completion. He worked on a few boards and foundations, but the projects he was involved with in education/crime prevention/housing improvements haven't worked. The 100,000 dollar park? It's only a 10,000 dollar gazebo. The "born-alive" act? Sole dissenting voice.

And in the US Senate? What legislation has he sponsored/pushed/been a major part of? We know he has never convened the sub-committee he chairs, so he hasn't done that part of his senate job.

So basically, he's only ever successfully campaigned for office.....that's his only accomplishment.


Is this a fluke or planned?

681 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:27:52pm

re: #26 Sharmuta

Keep it up, Gallup. You're motivating republicans and making 0bamabots feel comfortable enough they might stay home and not work to win this.

Rove, you magnificent bastard!

682 transient  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:28:00pm

When asked about the nature of polls, professional pollsters will tell you that any given poll in isolation is meaningless, and what they look for is a trend. So far, the trend has indicated that the election will be close, but you have to keep watching.

I don't know why people are surprised that they haven't been polled. Polls typically ask about 1,000 people, and there were over 122 million votes cast in the last election (and presumably a lot more registered voters). The statistical probability of any single individual being polled is relatively low. (And since they tend not to leave voice mail messages, you wouldn't know if they called while you were away.)

683 dmjung  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:28:53pm

re: #651 HD Woman

Most of us were going to vote AGAINST Obama, with our noses held tightly, just like McCain's Mom said.

I think that's a key concept...conservative voters don't like voting against something and although many will do it, I know many won't make the effort. They want to vote for something and Palin is that something.

684 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:29:38pm

re: #640 buzzsawmonkey

Man, but you are hard to please.

Yes, I rather like having at least a couple chunks of beef in my BEEF STEW! Not chunks of beef bouillon cubes.

:-)

685 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:29:40pm

re: #659 mfarmer1

but only G-d can make a tree. . . . .

686 Cognito  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:29:48pm

re: #576 Killgore Trout

I'm very unpopular with a lot of lizards. It doesn't bother me. If I were too well liked it wouldn't be any fun.

Oh, yes. I understand.

687 ggt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:31:36pm

re: #667 nacazo

George's goal is to send the whole world in to depression. He is beyond psychotic.

688 kansas  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:31:47pm

re: #672 TN_Vol

Unfortunately "Swiftboaters" has become a pejorative term and any question of Obama's past is met with an "oh, that's just swiftboating" and is dismissed.

I've never heard specifically what the Swiftboaters were supposed to have lied about.


That would be because they didn't lie.

689 Adrenalyn  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:32:38pm

anyone remember the exit polls from 2000 and 2004
that had Bush losing each one

you know, the exit polls divulged before the polls even closed

fuck it people
the media arm of the Nazicrat party is going overtime this time
like before only maybe they're in warp drive

but suck it up and vote McCain

can we really be stupid enough to believe the media
given all the times they have been proven LIARS

690 odinga  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:33:19pm

Fellow Lizards,

1. Ignore the Polls
2. Don't lose your faith
3. We [and Palin] will drag McCain across the finish line
4. The MSM psy-op will fail. We know they are bogus
5. Obama has a huge fear factor
6. The DNC primary Polls were all wrong as well
7. Vote, don't give up, don't get sad, attack like a screaming banshee

691 right Brain  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:34:57pm

11 points is a significant number because that is the number most often given as the spread for the "Bradley effect."

Bradley effect is a known polling error for a black/white contest. Mayor Dinkins ran again Mayor Giuliani twice and in both elections the error was around 11%.

Senator Obama had an 11 point polling error in both the California primaries and the New Hampshire primaries. The NH is especially significant because there was eight different polling companies with the same error. In CA it was two companies.

Could be time to think that Obama is ahead.

692 kansas  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:37:14pm

Let me get this straight. McCain mush mouths and loses the debate, and the NY Times bashes him for a dirty campaign. WTF?

693 Outrider  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:37:55pm

re: #580 Semper Gumbi

The forum wasn't right. No question about character was asked that would have allowed him an opening. To have just come out and hit Obama with Ayers and Wright would have turned off more people than it would have helped.

Maybe in the next debate.

the moderator selected all questions. frankly most of them sucked and didn't belong in this debate.

694 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:38:24pm

re: #680 rightymouse

Is this a fluke or planned?

He talks and looks pretty, and he's black. Geraldine Ferraro was absolutely spot on when she said that if he had been white, he would have lost to Hillary by a couple dozen in the primary.

I think it was planned back immediately after he gave his Dem Convention speech back in '04. A few folks behind the scene decided right then that they were going to make him the next POTUS, because they knew Kerry would lose and they didn't want more Clinton years.

695 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:38:46pm

re: #687 ggt

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

This is what I has been rolling about in my mind. not really having a significant background in finance or economics, I can only go with my gut.

The mantra of the left each election, is to have a crisis, or some big scandal on the opposition.

They handle the rising price of oil by going after the company that brings the supply to market. Anyone with half a brain will realize this can't bring prices down, but will cede more control to the government.

I never ever hear the left talk about curbing the cost of education. They claim it is getting more expensive, but they will provide loans, and take from others to maintain hedgemony. Have they ever said the cost needs to come down relative to the value?

Healthcare. Life expectancy has increased significantly over the last 50 years. We once had programs to feed people, now we have lawsuites due to obesity.

I have noticed that word "depression" make it into the news cycle vernacular over the past week or two.

I don't like it.

696 ckb  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:38:51pm

re: #102 Sharmuta

The proof is in the pudding.

Actually, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

/pedantic :-)

697 West Coast Freedom  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:41:03pm
698 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:41:04pm

re: #688 kansas

That would be because they didn't lie.

I LOVE SWIFTBOATERS! {DEFENDERS OF AMERICA! }

699 TheMatrix31  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:41:13pm

Anyone else scared that all this "He's not ready to lead." just means that if he were to lose this year, he could still run later and say "Do I have enough now?!"

He's not just "not ready", he's severely DISqualified to lead, forever.

700 looking closely  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:41:42pm

re: #682 transient


I don't know why people are surprised that they haven't been polled. Polls typically ask about 1,000 people, and there were over 122 million votes cast in the last election

1000 people called PER tracking poll daily x 5 ongoing major tracking polls x 120 days of tracking = 600,000 calls.

These are just rough guesstimates (there is actually quite a bit more polling going on that just five polls. . .though few them are tracking every single day), but the point is, there are still a lot of samples being taken.

701 Joan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:42:16pm

#435 Kosh's Shadow 10/08/08 11:38:42 am reply quote 0
re: #418 NomadOfNorad
Unfortunately, it would take decades and decades to recover from the damage even one term of Obama would do to this country. Assuming we even COULD recover from it.

"It will take a long time to clean up the radioactive mess after a couple of Iranian A-bombs get delivered by cargo container."

Sadly, it could happen on McCain's watch tho perhaps a bit less likely.

Silly question:
1) Why is Iran's Revolutionary Guard alum and President allowed into US airspace?
2) He's trotting into NYC all the damn time now it seems--and I ask myself if he would love to die a martyr's death for jihad,
3) Does he fly via private Iranian jet
4) Is his plane searched before getting within target range of NYC?
5) Why is this a preposterous set of speculations--have we forgotten how he got his political start: isn't it pretty clear he was a leader in the radical Islamic group that took over our Embassy back in the day?

702 Alouette  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:42:21pm

re: #611 NY Nana

Gmar tov to you!

703 Irish Rose  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:46:29pm

re: #386 HoosierHoops

Good seeing you Irish Rose..how have you been and how is that son of yours doing?

Thanks for asking... working 10 hours days and back-to-back shifts, burning the candle at both ends so to speak.

My son is doing very well, staying busy out in CA waiting for word of his next deployment. He's met a very lovely young lady out there, an intelligent beautiy from a very good family who serves in the US Navy. They met while out on deployment on the USS Nimitz earlier this year.

It's becoming rather serious.... he has two more weeks of leave time in January, and he's bringing her home to meet the family.

May God continue to bless, comfort and protect our men and women who serve.

704 prototype  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:49:51pm

Ignore the polls. Gore was up by 11 over Bush in early October of 2000.

705 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:52:24pm

re: #695 formercorpsman

[Link: www.thestreet.com...]

my viewing for later.

706 SusanL  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:52:40pm

I still think the Bradley effect will help. I don't think his race will be the Bradley point though. I hope people will stop and think about his lack of experience and his vapid stupidity.

If not, we are screwed. Obama is going to make Jimmy Carter look like the next best thing since sliced bread.

707 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:54:22pm
708 Dave the.....  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:54:51pm

To paraphrase another blogger (NRO I think), what McCain should do is run commercials, saying that Obama never stood up to corrupt Chicago politicians, never stood up to any Democrat in Congress. That Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will send him bills that he will sign without giving a second thought.

Then the ad should play the most screwball quotes by Democrat congresspeople (proposing goofy legislation), and after each, have a clip of Obama saying "yes we can".

709 el2995  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:00:22pm

Often times, when 'Gallup'-ing happens, there's a lot of horse pucky involved...

710 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:04:15pm

re: #705 formercorpsman

[Link: www.greatchange.org...]

711 JohnDakota  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:04:16pm

re: #531 MandyManners

Gotta' go. If Edgar comes slithering in here, beat the snot out of him for me, Lizards!

Wow! Bitter much?

I guess this is a lesson to people who disagree with you is expect to be called a pedophile (or any other child rapist derivative) AND for you to beg others to physically assult those you disagree with.

I see you're a very well adjusted adult.. /sarc

712 Crusader Rabbit  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:05:07pm

Regarding polls, if you don't know how they sampled, you can't tell what the results actually mean.

Most of the polling agencies change sampling method from one iteration to the next so one cannot meaningfully compare successive polls.

The RCP practice of averaging dissimilar polls is a case of "garbage-in, garbage-out".

Nevertheless, if as long as they do a student's T analysis on their data they get to call it "scientific". I could go out and poll only people in cars with Obama stickers on them and call it "scientific". I'm betting I could show Obama running away with it if I did this, but the actual merit of my results would be zero.

The major polling agencies play similar game right up to the last week of the election. Then the slowly turn down the bullshit factors in their sampling techniques so that they tend to converge on election day. All they have to do not to get laughed out of the business is get within (or even near) their quoted error of the actual election results on the last day of polling.

713 logboy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:06:16pm

All joking aside, if Obama gets elected what happens to those of us who are Iraq vets, especially those of us who are severely wounded Iraq Vets ? Am I going to be the next generation's crazy Vietnam Vet who lost an arm and half a hand back in 'Nam? Are we going to get taken care of, or is it going to be "that's what you get for volunteering jackass" letter from Obama's administration? I'm going to be royally pissed off if Obama gets elected and he cuts off my other arm by screwing Iraq and immediately pulling all the troops out. Talk about a big smack to the face if that happens. I know the Dems screwed over Vietnam vets after their war, I'm just afraid they're going to do it to us too.

714 aacon  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:06:39pm

I've got a question that's bugged me for a long time. Maybe somebody here can enlighten me.

We have two polls:

Gallup: 52 - 41 Obama, +/- 2
Zogby: 47.1 - 45.2 Obama, +/- 2.8

So that means according to Gallup, McCain's "true" support is in the range of 39 - 43 and Obama's "true" support is in the range of 50 - 54.

But according to Zogby, McCain's "true" support is in the range of 42.4 - 48 and Obama's "true" support is in the range of 44.3 - 49.9.

It seems to me if these margin-of-error figures hold any water at all that the ranges from the two polls must overlap somewhere? If not, then what does it even mean when a poll claims to be accurate to a specified range?

But if you look at the Obama numbers from the two polls they technically don't even overlap. Sure you could argue that there's only a .1 difference between the end of the low range and the beginning of the high range. But, again if these numbers truly mean anything then it seems to me the pollsters would have specified margins of error that caused the numbers to overlap. Besides, even if you give Obama .1, does this mean that we can now pinpoint his "true" support at 50?

Similarly, the two polls have McCain's "true" support overlapping in the range of 42.4 - 43. That's a pretty narrow range. Can we take this to mean then that the ultra-super-duper-accurate measure of "true" voter sentiment at the moment is McCain 42.4 - 43, Obama 50?

Note, I don't really think so. Just something that's always bugged me with polls.

715 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:11:17pm
716 RayJ  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:12:42pm

Sorry guys. This poll is accurate. You could see it in McCain's and Obama's body language. Obama was calm and he rattles easily. McCain was rattled and he doesn't rattle easily. The only good news is that the data is from before the debate. Not that McCain did well there, but he has gone on the offensive as of late.
Unfortunately, it's probably too late.

717 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:13:13pm

re: #715 taxfreekiller

TFK, you posted earlier about some things I guess you do for a living.

Finance realm?

718 logboy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:14:06pm

re: #715 taxfreekiller

Clarify the Kerry comment for me. He came home and spoke about all the war atrocities our troops were committing while McCain and friends were being tortured in the Hanoi Hilton.

719 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:18:18pm

re: #718 logboy

In essence, that is what TFK is saying.

720 Mark1957  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:18:33pm

New Gallup poll just out:

OBAMA UP BY TWO GAZILLION QUADRILLION POINTS...AND IF YOU QUESTION THIS POLL YOU'RE A RACIST!

Developing....

721 Strike Hornet  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:21:55pm

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

CNN fact checkers said McCain lied. They said if you work up the figures CORRECTLY, McCain took over 166 thousand, much more than Obama.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

the word "fact" just doesn't look right next to the letters CNN

722 Crusader Rabbit  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:22:06pm

re: #714 aacon

The "margin of error" is calculated based only on the polling data in the sample and the assumption of the person designing the polls.

If I poll only registered Democrats in South Chicago and get Obama 91% and McCain 4% with 3% percent undecided and 2% percent unable to understand the question, I can get a sampling error of 3 ish percent by just asking enough people from that same population. It doesn't at all mean that another poll using a different sample should fall within 3 percent of my data, it only means that if I use the same sampling technique on the same population again I should get the same outcome within 3 percentage points.

Each polling agency uses it's own, often proprietary, sampling technique. So the margins of error say nothing about how one would compare to another.

723 armaros  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:23:43pm

Charles, the poll you posted is from Oct 5th

This is from Zogby Oct 08, battleground states:

[Link: www.zogby.com...]

Obama 47% McCain 45%

Can this be Sarah or is the Ayers dung starting to stick?

I hope they bring on Wright, the Missouri "Truth Squads" the "North Korean" singing kids, the little teenage black panther wannabes [Link: elections.foxnews.com...]
and Barney Frank.

NBC pulled off the SNL skit mocking Soros and Herb Sandler, the junk mortgage peddler and ballot stuffing ACORN donor who made billions on the subprime mess. The skit came back censored. This shows how a Leftist regime will stifle dissent, silence criticism and even mockery and create a quasi Venezuelan culture in America.
Obama s ego maniac billionaire funders don't like criticism.
[Link: www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com...]

I am not an American and don't want to tell them how to vote, however, having been born and semi raised in a Communist country, I can say that you guys are in for a shit storm.

I ve seen this all before, kids in uniforms, songs praising the leader ( we actually never had to do that to honor a living leader only icons like Lenin and Marx)
I was one of those kids until age 14 when I made it to Canada. People had a hard time believing what this was about and what it was like. Americans need to understand that this road leads to dark place.

Obama has learned from Dean and has perfected his "movement" based support drive and has done so due to the input of the likes of Ayers and his Communist methods.

This is what you need to understand;

This is not just about hobnobbing with terrorists.

It is about adopting their methods which exclude terror and murder but include all the rest of their nasty repertoire of tactics, from class warfare rhetoric to foreign funding (even from Gaza), media manipulation and even now threats to media. Add to that the Chavez type voting drives using homeless people (Gore did the same in Colorado) and outright fraud. Let alone the chances of remaining beholden to these fanatics post election and the dangers they represent to political opponents.

Dictatorship does not come from above, it comes through a change in culture. A climate is created where certain things become norm while others become shunned. Putin for example does not need to order the murders of opponents, they are murdered as part of the culture of fear. The acts become tolerated by the shifts in culture.

I hope McCain Palin will elaborate on these framed in the context of how un-American this is.

Its gonna be hard.

God save you.....

724 Captkirk35  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:25:19pm

Freak'n Congress!

Driving me crazy here. All they know how to do is spend. That's the answer to everything!

The silver lining to McCain and Palin going down would be the opportunity to transform the Movement. That's an appealing consolation prize, and the conversation that would take place amongst the Right, as it re-defines itself in the best possible way will be fascinating and potentially very good in the end.

725 snowcrash  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:25:40pm

What is it, 27 days until the election. Anything, really anything, could happen in the world news that could change the election outcome. It's not over until Nov. 5.

726 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:36:50pm

The pollsters are mostly in the tank, in the tank, in the tank, tank, tank. If you can't believe that, then you're very Gallupble.

727 odinga  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:37:02pm

re: #716 RayJ

Sorry guys. This poll is accurate. You could see it in McCain's and Obama's body language. Obama was calm and he rattles easily. McCain was rattled and he doesn't rattle easily. The only good news is that the data is from before the debate. Not that McCain did well there, but he has gone on the offensive as of late.
Unfortunately, it's probably too late.

No offense but, this board is not a bunch of Cut and Runners. We are Lizards. We are not going to quit just because you are. It is never too late. We are poised like Velociraptors ready to eviscerate the 'Anointed One' and commit him to eternal extinction.

728 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:41:41pm

re: #727 odinga

No offense but, this board is not a bunch of Cut and Runners. We are Lizards. We are not going to quit just because you are. It is never too late. We are poised like Velociraptors ready to eviscerate the 'Anointed One' and commit him to eternal extinction.

At the ballot box, of course.

729 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:44:12pm

Just dropping by for a moment before Yom Kippur with a heads up...

The "Obsession" DVD is being mailed to people in North Carolina.

I'm holding a copy of it in my hands after getting the mail for the apartment where I'm staying. It's addressed to a specific resident in the apartment by name.

I hadn't realized that North Carolina is on the mailing list, but apparently so.

730 strike hornet  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:44:28pm

re: #716 RayJ

Sorry guys. This poll is accurate. You could see it in McCain's and Obama's body language. Obama was calm and he rattles easily. McCain was rattled and he doesn't rattle easily. The only good news is that the data is from before the debate. Not that McCain did well there, but he has gone on the offensive as of late.
Unfortunately, it's probably too late.


Memo to: The One
"Be wary of October polls indicating you are in the lead by more than 5 points, especially after thinking you totally dominated a debate against an opponent you and the entire MSM thought was a bumbling idiot"...
~Signed,
Al Gore and John F'in Kerry

731 rightymouse  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:46:36pm

re: #694 Intrepid

He talks and looks pretty, and he's black. Geraldine Ferraro was absolutely spot on when she said that if he had been white, he would have lost to Hillary by a couple dozen in the primary.

I think it was planned back immediately after he gave his Dem Convention speech back in '04. A few folks behind the scene decided right then that they were going to make him the next POTUS, because they knew Kerry would lose and they didn't want more Clinton years.


Sounds about right.

732 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:48:09pm

re: #626 Creeping Eruption

Thank you! And may your name have been inscribed in the book of life also.

733 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:48:45pm

re: #729 Adina in Judea

Just dropping by for a moment before Yom Kippur with a heads up...

The "Obsession" DVD is being mailed to people in North Carolina.

I'm holding a copy of it in my hands after getting the mail for the apartment where I'm staying. It's addressed to a specific resident in the apartment by name.

I hadn't realized that North Carolina is on the mailing list, but apparently so.

Is this the full movie, or just the excerpted version? (I got the excerpted version in the sales-flyers section of my Sunday paper a few weeks back. Pulled it out and kept it. That one was the excerpted version.)

734 debutaunt  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:49:15pm

re: #726 Salem

The pollsters are mostly in the tank, in the tank, in the tank, tank, tank. If you can't believe that, then you're very Gallupble.

"Make three correct guesses consecutively and you will establish a reputation as an expert." - Laurence J. Peter (1919 - 1990)

735 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:49:31pm

re: #702 Alouette

Gmar tov to you!

736 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:51:19pm

re: #726 Salem

The pollsters are mostly in the tank, in the tank, in the tank, tank, tank. If you can't believe that, then you're very Gallupble.

Thank you for a very much needed laugh.

737 Sponge  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:51:42pm

That settles it. Americans don't seem to care about America.....at least a majority of the ones that were polled, anyway.

738 Captkirk35  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:52:20pm

re: #727 odinga

I've been thinking of ways we can make a difference. I would hope all of you have a sign in your yard, or bumper sticker on your car for McCain/Palin. In my neck of the woods, McCain signs are rare, but since I put mine up, I've had all kinds of random people ask about getting one, or giving me a thumbs up. The culture has so beaten down affiliation w/ the Right, and the Left has become so confident (over confident) about their place, that i think people almost feel intimidated to do it. Folks, get your hands out of your pockets! Tell your friend who supports McCain and doesn't want to see an Obamanation take place to do the same! It matters.

739 guy_philly  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:54:13pm

Words of comfort if the unthinkable happens:
1. There will be so little money available to a President Obama that he will be unable to launch all the programs he wants to launch
2. There is no way any president will dig out of this hole in 4 years - therefore the next president will be a one-term president
3. Hillary will not run against Obama in 2012.
4. Sarah Palin will not be tainted by this election and will probably be the front-runner for the Republicans in 2012. She'll do her homework, be even better informed on all issues, probably travel the world a bit to be more "worldly," and be familiar (and respected) by many Americans.
5. 2010 will see a lot of bums thrown out of the House and Senate and give the majority back to the Republicans.
6. Israel will have removed the problem in Iran.

On the down side, the next president will probably get to appoint several new Justices to the SCOTUS.

740 yochanan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:57:38pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

Sorry- but I think it's a crock of shit. I'll wait for Zogby.

zogby say the difference is 1.9% or tied

741 snowcrash  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:57:47pm

re: #739 guy_philly
One more downside, the House will be controlled by the Dems and NO ONE will put the brakes on Obamas spending. (My biggest fear really).

742 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 1:58:01pm

re: #739 guy_philly

On the down side, the next president will probably get to appoint several new Justices to the SCOTUS.

Unfortunately, that one could bring the most far-reaching damage imaginable.

743 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:00:09pm

re: #736 NY Nana

Thank you for a very much needed laugh.

No problem. I wouldn't want you to think it wasn't true, though. Any pollster who attaches their name to an obviously biased news org like CNN, CBS or NBC is either biased themselves or too stupid to take reliable polls. The Gallup poll will tighten up in the coming weeks, and you won't be able to believe them then, either.

744 strike hornet  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:01:29pm

re: #447 Joan

OT: I received this email from a Democrat friend, someone clearly getting the Politburo Propaganda Scenario in advance, just that little added dollop of emotional blackmail and insult that every election needs to ensure that bitterness and slander perpetuate forever--oh, not mention justifying violent action following defeat in a contested election. Here it is, my Democrat friend, sadly speculating whether I'm not actually racist:

"You are The Boss... Which team would you hire with America facing historic debt, two wars, stumbling health care, a weakened dollar, all-time high prison population, mortgage crises, bank foreclosures, etc.?

Educational Background:


OBAMA
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

BIDEN
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

MCCAIN

United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

PALIN

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Now, which team are you going to hire ?

Some Points to Consider:

What if John McCain were a former president of the Harvard Law Review? What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain were still married to the first woman he said 'I do' to? What if Obama were the candidate who left his first wife after she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Michelle Obama were a wife who not only became addicted to pain killers, but acquired them illegally through her charitable organization? What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama were a member of the Keating-5? What if McCain were a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference."


Let me guess...teaches at or just graduated from Berkley, Boulder, Columbia, NYU?
This is right out of a grey ponytailed, 60's hippie college professor's mouth...
LOL

745 strangelove  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:03:57pm

Obama up by 11.

Thank you, morns running the GOP for throwing up (literally) Alan Keyes, who made Barry a senator.

And thank you, President Stupid, for making such idiotic decisions for 8 years that only a sellout (McCain-Feingold, anyone?) like John McCain could be remotely palatable to the independent middle, who gave you the last two elections. Thanks for absolutely no leadership over the last two years of a s**t economy, (not your fault, but ignoring it is).

And lastly, thanks for an incomplete mission in Iraq and a resurgent Afghanistan, to the tune of a billion a month.

Thanks for turning your back on the people who voted for you twice. Thanks for turning into shambles a once viable GOP. Now, we can only choose Left or Lefter.

yep. I'm bitter alright. and so should every lizard here be too, because conservatism is D-E-A-D for at least 4 years.

746 JackLacton  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:03:57pm

If you check out the betting market then you'll see that McCain was closing in on Obama ... until the financial meltdown happened. At that point, Obama's lead has only increased, which it did again after the 2nd debate.

Obama is now a $1.24 favourite with McCain out to over $5. That means there's an implied chance of around 80% of an Obama victory, which makes me think the polls are wrong. He's not 11 points up, he's around 20 points up.

Things are going to be bad not only over the next 4-5 years but also well into the future as a result of the activist, leftist judges that get appointed.

747 strangelove  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:05:45pm

re: #743 Salem

No problem. I wouldn't want you to think it wasn't true, though. Any pollster who attaches their name to an obviously biased news org like CNN, CBS or NBC is either biased themselves or too stupid to take reliable polls. The Gallup poll will tighten up in the coming weeks, and you won't be able to believe them then, either.

Tighten?

every car I see has a frigging messiah sticker on it. If anything, we're looking at a landslide---------in the wrong direction.

748 strangelove  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:07:23pm

re: #746 JackLacton

If you check out the betting market then you'll see that McCain was closing in on Obama ... until the financial meltdown happened. At that point, Obama's lead has only increased, which it did again after the 2nd debate.

Obama is now a $1.24 favourite with McCain out to over $5. That means there's an implied chance of around 80% of an Obama victory, which makes me think the polls are wrong. He's not 11 points up, he's around 20 points up.

Things are going to be bad not only over the next 4-5 years but also well into the future as a result of the activist, leftist judges that get appointed.

I said 20 points 3 weeks ago. ...a total nightmare, courtesy of the GOP. The dems never win---we just always give it away!

749 scratch  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:08:03pm

re: #9 Ward Cleaver

Saw a CNN poll at lunchtime saying that Obama won the debate, 70 to 30.

Democratic Underground makes a sport of sending people around to all the online polls. They are complete fiction.

750 Nancy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:09:17pm

re: #716 RayJ

It's no more accurate than the other polls done in the last 2-3 days before the debate and Zogby as mentioned above shows a much closer race.

751 welshgirl  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:10:05pm

re: #32 Ward Cleaver

Charles, is this reverse psychology, or are you really in the dumper over this?

It's just news, that's all.

But McCain didn't do a very good job last night, in my opinion, and I can't lie about it.

Do I still want him to beat Barack Obama? You betcha. But he has to want it too.


The undecideds would have been watching. The ones who wait until October aren't like us, having been obsessed for most of the year. McCain chose to come across compassionate and he did. Plenty of time to get nasty over Ayers, Rezko! Don't underestimate him.

752 strangelove  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:10:24pm

D.U. is a nut-house , but McCain got his arse handed to him. He couldn't stay on topic, stumbled around his own sentences, sounded like a petulant old crank who needed his diaper changed. INFURIATING!

753 yochanan  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:11:11pm

re: #689 Adrenalyn

one should not use the term 'nazi' unless you are really talking about real nazi's my wife's family was mostly butchered by real nazi's i for one am offended by poor use of the term nazi.

754 strangelove  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:14:11pm

re: #751 welshgirl

re: #. Plenty of time to get nasty over Ayers, Rezko! Don't underestimate him.


...which is exactly the wrong tactic. Americans are scared s**tless about the economy, not Ayers, Alinsky, or Rezko, as much as the character issue needs illumination.

McCain's only hope is to cobble together clear and specific economic survival strategies that Joe no-pack (Joe just got his 6-pack foreclosed on) can understand and relate to. And he better do it fast.

755 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:18:41pm

re: #747 strangelove

Tighten?

every car I see has a frigging messiah sticker on it. If anything, we're looking at a landslide---------in the wrong direction.

Well, if they don't tighten their fraudulent polls, tens of thousands of Obomba voters who weren't that motivated to begin with will relax and figure they don't need to bother voting. And, particularly if they were skewing the polls in his favor, they aren't going to want to risk that. People don't have a mindset that goes completely uncolored for three weeks. The Republican machine works good in a pinch, too. And I don't even remember who Dole's running mate was. (Actually, that has me kind of worried.)

But I stated just the other day that I hate McCain. I don't think I would grow any fonder of a President McCain. But it's hard for me to fathom even a best case scenario in an Obomba presidency that wouldn't be a disaster for my country. So what else can I say but...

RAH-RAH! GO UNCLE CREEPY! HUZZAH!

756 NY Nana  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:25:07pm

re: #743 Salem

I really do not trust the polls, and think that they only make things worse...a cousin by marriage, Samuel Lubell zt"l, was the only one I ever really trusted. He was unique. He used to be on TV every election.

They moved out to LA years before he died. We used to sit and discuss politics when they lived in Manhattan. We need someone of his integrity now, but it seems that no one is interested in getting off their tushes now, and using his method.

The only 'poll' that is worth it's word in the vote on Nov. 4, and sadly, we have to wonder about the voting method in too many states..

757 scratch  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:25:50pm

re: #754 strangelove

...which is exactly the wrong tactic. Americans are scared s**tless about the economy, not Ayers, Alinsky, or Rezko, as much as the character issue needs illumination.

McCain's only hope is to cobble together clear and specific economic survival strategies that Joe no-pack (Joe just got his 6-pack foreclosed on) can understand and relate to. And he better do it fast.

Sorry, but I don't think anyone is going to pay any attention to anything McCain says about the economy, because it is cemented in their minds that Obama "cares about their problems" more than McCain does. I think the only chance McCain has is to get a significant percentage of middlin' voters to take a critical look at Obama. I don't think Obama is a bad person and I don't think McCain can or should paint him as someone out to do evil, but it would help a great deal for people to see that Obama is, in fact, a person. And not only that, he is a person who, in my opinion, has shown himself to be comfortable around people--and in fact may be once such person himself--who think that the U.S. is a defective nation that needs to be "fixed."

758 Mr Spiffy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:30:26pm

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Breaking news: Obama still holds 0% support in Kragaristan, Glorious Leader plans to cut all foreign aid from Kragaristan to US in the event of Obama presidency.

No you won't! Without the US to support Kragaristani bodonkedonk prices the bottom will fall out and you will be worse (?) off than us

759 welshgirl  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:32:01pm

re: #751 welshgirl

re: #. Plenty of time to get nasty over Ayers, Rezko! Don't underestimate him.


...which is exactly the wrong tactic. Americans are scared s**tless about the economy, not Ayers, Alinsky, or Rezko, as much as the character issue needs illumination.

McCain's only hope is to cobble together clear and specific economic survival strategies that Joe no-pack (Joe just got his 6-pack foreclosed on) can understand and relate to. And he better do it fast

The only ones scared are Dimocrats. They had a lower rating of performance than GWB.

Some people don't take politics as seriously as we do. Rethink the debate through the eyes of a voter who is just now starting to pay attention. That's a large %.

760 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:32:45pm

re: #757 scratch

You have I point. I don't want to listen to McCain either. Every time I do, I regret it. And it never helps me to forget the multitude of things about him I already disapproved of. He's a political disgrace.

But Obomba is a full-bore socialist, and that's all I need to know about him. There's nothing he can say that will make me forget that. And that's something people are going to learn about sooner or later. Better they learn before the election.

761 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:37:00pm

Hello Lizards.
Gotta love those October surprises! Has anyone posted this link yet? Just got through reading it. [Link: politicallydrunk.blogspot.com...]
"during his campaign for the State Senate in Illinois- Barack Obama was endorsed by an organization known as the Chicago "New Party". The 'New Party' was a political party established by the Democratic Socialists of America (the DSA) to push forth the socialist principles of the DSA by focusing on winnable elections at a local level and spreading the Socialist movement upwards."
Dems, Socialists, Web scrubbing....

762 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:38:55pm

shoot, forgot the possible Project Vote connection, notic e their win average

763 Infidel_One  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:42:31pm

I think, had this quote from Soetoro..err Obama been brought to light and hammered on, during the Democratic Convention, this would be a very different thread and Soetoro..err Obama....would be back in Illinois where he belongs.

From Audacity of Hope:
'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

To my mind that is a very damning statement and should have been jumped on by all contenders.
I will stand with my conscience should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

764 Colin Nelson  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:42:31pm

Important to remember that for the debate last night, Gallup vetted and selected the "audience" (and I think the questions as well), against criteria that was supposedly able to detect and select only truly 'undecided' voters.

Self fulfilling prophesy...

765 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:44:06pm

re: #761 HD Woman

Hello Lizards.
Gotta love those October surprises! Has anyone posted this link yet? Just got through reading it. [Link: politicallydrunk.blogspot.com...]
"during his campaign for the State Senate in Illinois- Barack Obama was endorsed by an organization known as the Chicago "New Party". The 'New Party' was a political party established by the Democratic Socialists of America (the DSA) to push forth the socialist principles of the DSA by focusing on winnable elections at a local level and spreading the Socialist movement upwards."
Dems, Socialists, Web scrubbing....

Well, yeah, but a large number of prominent Dems are members of the DSA, and a lot of people who keep them in office for generations aren't even aware of it, or don't realize what Socialism really is.

766 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:47:56pm

re: #765 Salem
yeah, was just noticing that now :(

767 HD Woman  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:49:50pm

Still, might be enough for a few more blue dogs to ease their "white guilt", every % matters.

768 Nancy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:50:07pm

My impression was that McCain was "off key" last night. I am voting for him because of positions and policies but he wasn't in his "element" in that setting last night.

He is much feistier and more confident than came across last night.
I thought McCain was being too grandfatherly and Obama was often arrogant and rude.

I recall MOST of these debates are quite boring. There are exceptions.

769 satan sidekick  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:54:22pm

Well I just chekd the polling for my state (NH) where they've got Obama up by 10 points.

They polled
27% Republicans
39% Democrats
34% Independents

Not a very balanced poll if you ask me.

770 Strike Hornet  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 2:58:09pm

re: #672 TN_Vol

Unfortunately "Swiftboaters" has become a pejorative term and any question of Obama's past is met with an "oh, that's just swiftboating" and is dismissed.

I've never heard specifically what the Swiftboaters were supposed to have lied about.

That is because they didn't lie...

771 satan sidekick  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:01:50pm

A loony bin website is claiming that Palin is inciting assassination at her rallies and some of these loons have contacted the FBI to beg for more protection for Obama. Madness.

[Link: www.themudflats.net...]

772 Nancy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:05:20pm

re: #769 satan sidekick

That's exactly why the polls are unreliable.

a large gain in a week, it often corresponds to the same percentage of having more from that party.

Age makes a difference too. McCain has double digit lead with older persons. Obama with younger persons.

773 desertbrat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:11:44pm

re: #24 Typicalwhitey

Maybe Gallup got their numbers by adding up all the other polls.

774 shiplord kirel  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:12:39pm

re: #771 satan sidekick

A loony bin website is claiming that Palin is inciting assassination at her rallies and some of these loons have contacted the FBI to beg for more protection for Obama. Madness.

[Link: www.themudflats.net...]

I guess Obambi's found his new FCC commissioner....

775 AussieMarcus  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:28:57pm

We've been hearing that with the economic collapse that this might be a good election to lose......I wonder whether the Republicans might have taken this to heart. From what I gather the last month has been very flat, and McCain hasn't been taking the fight to Obama as much as he could/should. It's Palin who seems to be getting the key moments and landing the heavy hits. Perhaps...perhaps....that's the idea. McCain runs a decent, capable campaign that keeps the base onside, maintains the 'brand' and avoids a blowout, whereas the new star Palin is groomed for 2012 and beyond. Obama inherits a tanking economy and stuffs up royally, leading to overwhelming GOP landslides in 2010 and 2012.

I'm not suggesting the Republicans are actively trying to lose- that would be an insult to their supporters- but maybe they're not as committed to victory this year as they could be. Like a sporting team that picks a group of young kids; they might finish bottom this season but in 4 years' time will be challenging for the playoffs. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

Just my feeling. Any thoughts?

776 Strike Hornet  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:31:04pm

so let me get this right Obama. You said in the debate last night:
"The economy is crashing because of the failed economic policies of the past eight years"
Exactly one year ago tomorrow, the Dow hit a record 14,000. That would be 7 years into the Bush administration...
It has taken the Democratic led Congress less than one year to totally tank the economy...How's THAT for some "truth to power"

777 Nancy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:37:14pm

Isn't this what Obama said in the debate last night?
Obama using John Kerry stump speeches? I remember he kept trying to bring up Bush.

Tuesday, October, 2004
John Kerry: compared Bush to the man Roosevelt defeated: President Herbert Hoover.

"George W. Bush has become the first president since Herbert Hoover to lose jobs on his watch. He's become the first president in more than 70 years to have the incomes of Americans decline in each year of his presidency," Kerry said. "He has become the first president to turn a record surplus into the largest deficit in American history."
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

778 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 3:53:01pm

Ok Everyone -

Late to the thread - AND - If memory serves, "Pres. Gore" was up about the same % this time 8 years ago. I voted for him and he lost.

-S-

779 Salem  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 4:00:08pm

re: #775 AussieMarcus

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

780 drake_vandenberg  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 4:03:33pm

I'm no mathematicatician, but if the Gallup Tracking poll has Obama up by 11 and the Hotline/FD Tracking has him up by 1 doesn't that mean the margin of error for these polls, assuming they use similar means is at least 10?

I mean if a poll has numbers, can't we assume that these numbers MIGHT be right? So if two numbers that MIGHT be right are ten apart, the margin of error is at least ten, right?

Is there a mathemagician out there that can explain if this isn't the case?

781 desertbrat  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 4:06:26pm

re: #204 Desert Dog

I live in Tucson near the UofA, and I've been pleasantly shocked at how few Obama bumper stickers I've seen. Evenly divided between anti-war slogans and NRA/Flag/Support the Troops decals in this area.

782 onthow  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 4:08:14pm

If this sub-prime mortgage collapse had waited two goddamn months, we'd be talking about how McCain is up in the polls. But to a large swath of voters, the collapse occurred with a Republican administration and is therefore because of the Republican administration. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. So the collapse, which is largely the result of Democrat policies, is actually going to give the Democrats the white house.

My God; if I was a Democrat, I'd think this was some sort of conspiracy.

783 Gonzolives  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 4:30:57pm

I live in Massachusetts, home of kerry, kennedy, patrick and frank, and I am disbturbed by all the Obama signs I see in my neighborhood.

I am now, for the first time, honestly worried about November.

The thought of 4 years of Michelle Obama...(shudder)

784 HillJack  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 4:35:37pm

re: #774 shiplord kirel

If the comments on that site were'nt so sad and scary it would be funny.
I really liked the one where they say,

"If it continues, we will have to start a public protest movement. Peaceful gatherings, but protest nonetheless."

I'm sure that will get them quaking in their boots!

785 big L  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 5:17:08pm

You folks aren't watching the panels on HN-CNN or Cnn or Wolfie. They say that it is over that M'Cain should just go back to Sedona...forget it. Bomber's friend has won....
You can't believe the neg b.s.
So gallup says that Oby-wan-hoover is up by 11. Let's see the sample--oh yes they asked 10 people...
///hahaha.

786 sevoguy  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 5:19:42pm

776 Strike Hornet:

Excellent talking points for tomorrows political debate at my work place. I have confirmed the DOW at 14000. Why the hell didn't McCain point this out during the debate?

787 LeonidasOfSparta  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 5:45:05pm

re: #785 big L

You folks aren't watching the panels on HN-CNN or Cnn or Wolfie. They say that it is over that M'Cain should just go back to Sedona...forget it. Bomber's friend has won....
You can't believe the neg b.s.
So gallup says that Oby-wan-hoover is up by 11. Let's see the sample--oh yes they asked 10 people...
///hahaha.

And all the people polled were democraps. Polls mean nothing. The Obumble press corps were saying this about Swiftboat Kerry 4 years ago.

OT slightly, Hannity on the radio today interviewed Corsi; and while I agree with Charles opinion about Corsi I was interested in the emails he has that he claims were written from Obumble to Odinga in Kenya and back from Odinga to Obumble, giving and receiving "pointers" on how to force the election to go Odinga's way including the murderous rampage that followed Odinga's electoral loss and the ensuing "whipping up the people to go out and take back the election stolen by the opponent."

It was an interesting interview and Hannity says he will have Corsi on his tv show with the documents in question....for what it's worth (which may not be much)

788 syndicate  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 6:39:00pm

It looks like the fine folks over at kos have been busy stacking those polls. If Obama is spending three times as much on TV ads, shouldn't he be up around 30 points ahead of McCain?

789 granite eagle  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 9:54:18pm

If Obama has Ohio......why are they piling dead winos in trucks to take them to voting centers?

I believe and have believed for a while now that the polls reported by the old media are always slanted in nature and are meant to send messages more than to guage how a vote will be cast......

This brings back memories of certain people I grew up with who always asked me "how do you feel about.....(insert concern)........only then to be told..."this is what you really feel". This is the way the old media treats the public.

I weep for this country if they vote for D'oh based upon how he speechifies. Actions speak louder than words. I cannot believe that people in the USA would actually follow someone who does nothing but say "vote for my speeches.....don't ask about my actions" Look at the mans actions and you will see the true Dear Leaders colors........

SPECIFICALLY with this election there has been much said about race......but we know for a fact that race will be a determining factor for a significant number of voters this year......its just that those who are voting that way are not willing to admit that color is a determining factor.

Ohio went to Strickland in 2006 for this reason..........and I would be willing to wager that it was 10 points worth that left the Right side due to poor Ken being black.

790 granite eagle  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:03:16pm

re: #775 AussieMarcus


Conservatives and Republicans both realize the danger of a Lib / Lib / Lib Washington.
You think things are bad now..............Having the Big D'oh, Harry and the B*tch calling the shots would be a flat out disaster......and I cannot emphasize that enough.

History has shown though that this is plausible...............

791 leereyno  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:55:49pm

re: #13 tfc3rid


It is astounding to me that a Presiential Election between as well-known war hero and long time Senator could lose to a man with little experience, bad connections and no plan...

Oh he has a plan alright. Most of it includes destroying the country and replacing it with a marxist dystopia.

792 leereyno  Wed, Oct 8, 2008 10:58:56pm

re: #778 Dr. Shalit

Ok Everyone -

Late to the thread - AND - If memory serves, "Pres. Gore" was up about the same % this time 8 years ago. I voted for him and he lost.

-S-

It is a sad commentary that Al Gore is infinitely more attractive than the current leftist wacko the Democrats are fielding.

793 ice-9  Thu, Oct 9, 2008 2:46:26am

re: #783 Gonzolives

I live in Massachusetts, home of kerry, kennedy, patrick and frank, and I am disbturbed by all the Obama signs I see in my neighborhood.

ZOMG! Not Massachusetts, too!

794 Spiker  Thu, Oct 9, 2008 11:17:05am

#144
It's the 401 Keg Plan.

795 Spiker  Thu, Oct 9, 2008 11:25:18am

We don't have a landline at home, haven't in years, so we never get polled. Of course, I live in TN, and everyone kind of ignores us during election time as it is such a red state.
I think the most disturbing development in all of this is the voter fraud, particularly in Ohio. It's infuriating to think that we will get stuck with the Messiah for four years thanks to derelicts, felons, homeless, dead people, etc. Also infuriating to think of the media covering Acorn's behind and the fact that they won't be confronted with any of it until long after election day, if ever.

796 Ezekiel2517  Thu, Oct 9, 2008 2:18:54pm

The polls are grossly miscalculating the "JAG factor". When you factor in the largely ignored voting bloc of seniors, McCain will dominate.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

Brainwave samplings.


PC & Video Games
Harry Potter Books - New in Paperback!