Does this count as a "nuke the fridge" moment?

Oh, Joe. You!

But he is so clean and articulate.

Distractions!

You think Biden has a writer for this shit or just makes it up as he goes along?

For once, I agree.

re: #5 Nevergiveup

You forgot the sarc tag.

Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

No truer words were spoken, Joe.

Yikes.

"...and he's gonna need help" Wow, ringing endorsement? Can I help?

Seriously? I mean, that is supposed to sound like a leader? Seriously? Mcain PLEASE WIN!

BTW, waaaay off topic to a dead thread, but I kinda, shoulda been more obvious in pushing the Little Big Planet story that I linked way back so I could get one of the highly coveted hat tipsy awards: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And i love this part:

we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

Let me translate that for you: We are gonna be selling some allies down the river!

re: #5 Nevergiveup
I believe it is the proverbial 1000 monkeys pecking away at the 1000 typewriters.

And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right

Denounce your neighbors. Join the secret police.

You cannot make this stuff up!

The Joes - both of them - the gifts that keep on giving.

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

My gaffemeter just registered 40 mega-Bidens!

Okay, I see.
So - it's not going to seem at first that they're right, because Obama is going to freeze in place like a deer in headlights, and Joey is spinning this in advance. Then, when Obamessiah finally does emerge from his catatonia, his 300+ advisors will counsel him to use 'TOUGH DIPLOMACY' as he appeases the person or group that is causing the problem.

Oh, gee whiz, golly shucks, I just can't WAIT.................
:-(

Is GWB going to have to ride back in on his horse with his cowboy hat to save Obama's ass?

Biden IS the gift that keeps on giving!

Just a quick question from an old poster, folks. (I have been hors de combat for some time now due to a lengthy bout with severe, disabling illness, so have contributed only very irregularly in the past few years.)

As background, I was a lifelong Democrat who got mugged by 9/11 and tricked (as I now see it) into backing Bush (I voted for him in 2004) in his futile policies of illegal wiretapping, unlawful detentions and torture, CIA black sites and extraordinary rendition, et cetera. I won't even begin to address the war in Iraq here. It may or may not turn out to be a good thing on balance, but the fact is we were lied to about the reasons for military intervention, and although that country may turn out to be a nifty forward base in any confrontation with Iran (a much more dangerous opponent), it's hard to see what other benefit the war has brought, unless strengthening Al Qaeda can be seen as a plus.

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

Just askin', you know, because I wouldn't want to disturb the general chorus, upset the applecart, ruin the consensus or otherwise harm the tenor of LGF's ongoing discussion.

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Faithfully yours,

--Old Cato

Yeah, this sounds like something is already planned. It feels like a threat in advance. This is bothersome.

The McCain/Palin camp should use Biden's statements in this to their absolute fullest. What a great soundbite for McCain. Thanks Joe!

If Obama wins, we'll be attacked from the outside. If Obama loses, we'll be attacked from the inside. This guy is nothing but trouble.

Biden is NO poker player - that's for sure. I'd love to play Poker with the guy.

Biden might be a heart beat away from being president. Scary!

re: #6 rawmuse

For once, I agree.

we'll absolutely get hit in the first 6 months. no doubts here. I would, if I were an enemy of the US. it's exactly the time to push and see how far backward the cowards will take us.

Repeating what I wrote in another thread, the most remarkable part is Biden predicting that the Obama Administration response will be unpopular with Americans.

But that won't matter because Obama/Biden know best.

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

Well, hot ziggety zag--we can elect Senator Sockpuppet so that we can watch him fold like a paper umbrella in the winds of international relations.

That's Senator Sockpuppet McGovernment to you, bub.
Putin and the Norks will eat his lunch.

WTF is Biden saying? (Well, WTF is he ever saying -- the man seems drunk half the time.) But, I guess... struggling to get into his frame of mind... geh... GEH...

Duuuuh, that Eye-ranian guy? he thinks Barack is a pushover. But we'll show that A-rab how clean and articulate we are! Just like Kennedy did with Stalin in 1961!

*pop!* MAN that hurt! The inside of Joe Biden's mind is one small place!

kinda reminds me of John Kerry's 2004 nomination speech
where he said he would conduct a more sensitive war

Joe the Bummer!

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters

Did he? Or did he just mention the countries that may be involved.

Who gave this guy his "foreign policy expert" title, anyway?

I'm sure it wasn't Menachem Begin.

From ACE:

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know"
Gee a novice and a jackass at the helm of the US government in a time of crisis, what could go wrong?

[Link: ace.mu.nu...]

re: #28 Who Watches the Watchmen?

That's Senator Sockpuppet McGovernment to you, bub.
Putin and the Norks will eat his lunch.

Just don't touch the Ones pancakes! (Or were they waffles?)

Did Biden also receive a commemorative lollipop from the Lollipop Guild?

Let me take this opportunity to personally thank all the voters in Delaware who have voted this guy in for decades.

Biden is the gift that keeps on giving.
I thought that one of the major reasons for electing Obama is that the World woul approve of us again. Why would they test Barry?

I expect mega dings on 31. I know you're not supposed to ask for them, but dammit! that's funny!

Biden:

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it,"

Obama/Biden

The know nothing and the know it all.

re: #37 opnion

Biden is the gift that keeps on giving.
I thought that one of the major reasons for electing Obama is that the World woul approve of us again. Why would they test Barry?

It ain't gonna be no test. Their just going to go and take what they want.

Biden who knows how to put his finger into the wind - KNOWS that defending our country will be unpopular with the base.

A friend worked with Rusmfeld and said - obviously the administration can't tell us all the current threats they are fending off and the terror plots they have uncovered. He said they are numerous and substantial.

Neither of these metrosexual bozos will have the cajones to do the right thing. Hey boys, leave it to the real men: McCain-Palin

“And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

Yeah, thanks for all of your help and influence for fighting the war against terrorism, you bloviating fool. I'm sure Bush appreciates all you've done.

With the first major incident Obami will be looking for the KY Jelly -- those appeasers need that for some reason.

Biden has shit for brains.

"And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

what are you right about Joe? Your plan to defeat a manufactured crisis?

Why is Joe asking for support for something that
1) An Event which he cannot define?
2) An Event which has not yet occured?

re: #33 Nevergiveup

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know"

I understand that's supposed to be some sort of compliment to himself, but I'd rather have someone who remembers.

re: #37 opnion

Biden is the gift that keeps on giving.

Not really.

He is covered by the media cone of silence. Very few [of us] hear him.

re: #15 Occasional Reader

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Its a horse of a different color.

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,”

Sounds like somebody just had a security briefing.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Just a quick question from an old poster, folks. (I have been hors de combat for some time now due to a lengthy bout with severe, disabling illness, so have contributed only very irregularly in the past few years.)

As background, I was a lifelong Democrat who got mugged by 9/11 and tricked (as I now see it) into backing Bush (I voted for him in 2004) in his futile policies of illegal wiretapping, unlawful detentions and torture, CIA black sites and extraordinary rendition, et cetera. I won't even begin to address the war in Iraq here. It may or may not turn out to be a good thing on balance, but the fact is we were lied to about the reasons for military intervention, and although that country may turn out to be a nifty forward base in any confrontation with Iran (a much more dangerous opponent), it's hard to see what other benefit the war has brought, unless strengthening Al Qaeda can be seen as a plus.

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

Just askin', you know, because I wouldn't want to disturb the general chorus, upset the applecart, ruin the consensus or otherwise harm the tenor of LGF's ongoing discussion.

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Faithfully yours,

--Old Cato

Sorry, Oh elder and mighty sage of Roman days, but I must Heartily disagree.
The war was the RIGHT thing to do. AQ lost the ancient seat of the Caliphate along with tens of thousands of their bloodthirsty psychopathic Wahhabist comrades, and the (as usual virulently ungrateful) Europeans no longer have to worry about Saddam Insane developing ICBM's with NBC warheads to extort them or provide training, logistical support and financing for 40,000 jihadists from across the mideast - including the AQ cell in the eastern mountains that had received training in the production and weaponization of Ricin.
There can be no doubt - the war was teh Right Thing To Do.
Regarding Obama:
If you can honestly and truthfully see one single reason why he isn't the worst thing to happen to western civilization since the Bubonic Plague, please tell us.

Which scenario do you really think Joe is talking about? Maybe, the one where a President Obama throws our ally Israel under the bus of utter oblivion?

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

Well, hot ziggety zag--we can elect Senator Sockpuppet so that we can watch him fold like a paper umbrella in the winds of international relations. Gee, I'm sold--I was just sitting around thinking that we needed a good international crisis to balance out our domestic financial crisis.

Are the Democrats simply throwing this out to see how much they can publicly admit they have nominated a rodeo clown and still con the American people into electing him?

LOL!

re: #46 Ben Hur

I understand that's supposed to be some sort of compliment to himself, but I'd rather have someone who remembers.

I wonder if he remembers all the times he was wrong on almost every major foreign policy decision of the last 25 years? Now that he has conveniently forgotten!

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Sounds like somebody just had a security briefing.

And they had the shit scared out of them and have decided that they do not want to become Vice-President after all...

Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.

It'll involve Israel.

/and Lord President For Life Obama won't lift a finger

re: #48 Eowyn2

Its a horse of a different color.

Surrender Dorothy Barack

re: #19 Cato the Elder

You left out global warming. How could you leave out global warming?

re: #51 buzzsawmonkey

BTW: Obama has spent $650 million since the convention; more than both candidates spent for the entire primary-and-election cycle in 2004.

Imagine the moonbat hysteria if a similar sum was used to spread freedom.

We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us.

That sounds pretty ominous.

As if you didn't need more proof that having a completely unprepared and inexperienced person all but annointed to be next President is the height of folly. Enemies of the US can and would take advantage of the changed administration to move forward with their nefarious plots and strike quickly when we're off balance.

In 2001, the Bush Adminstration was still changing over from the Clinton Admin because of the delays in the election outcome. Even if there's no problem in November and there's a clear winner, a terrorist strike would still benefit from timing it shortly after the election to maximize the confusion.

Biden plainly notes that Obama's inexperience invites terrorists and the terror masters to test the waters and see just how far they can push the new Administration. That's a dangerous game they'd be playing, but it's dangerous for us as well since it's all but clear that Obama would forcefully respond to a terror attack with the kind of force.

On the flip side, Obama may be forced to respond with massive firepower if only to establish his credibility - ignoring any such attack or going law enforcement may only serve to hobble the Democrats going into the 2010 midterms. He might have to respond more forcefully than he'd want precisely because he's already cast himself as the anti-Bush and a mass casualty terror attack or attack on US strategic interests somewhere in the world could compel him to act in ways he would never have wanted. I think it would depend entirely on the kind of attack that predicates the response. The first impulse will be law enforcement (9/10 approach), rather than preemptive attacks to thwart terrorists.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Voice away. You won't have my support -- brekekekex! (And what the hell do Aristophanes' frogs have to do with anything?)

Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

Waggy the Doggy? I can't wait to see what the Dems come up with.

/Obama the Triumphant!

re: #19 Cato the Elder

You can voice it all you like, Cato, but, if you expect us (or anybody else) to agree with you, you're going to have to offer up something better in support of an Obama presidency than the usual BDS talking points from Left (Bush isn't running this election, anyway).

You're also going to have to tackle thorny issues, such as Obama's socialism, his association with Reverend Wright, Ayers, etc., and not just accuse us of "racism" if we bring these issues up.

Also, it helps in a reasonable discussion if you don't start out by immediately insulting your opponents, i.e., comparing LGF Lizards to the Frogs in Aristophone's play.

So, go ahead---why do you think an Obama presidency would be a good idea?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

OK, I'll bite. Cato, first of all, I wish you recovery, or at least solace in your struggle with your health issues. There are many here fighting their own battles as well.

Secondly, if you have a case, then by all means, make it. What is the worse that could happen? If your case has merit, in my experience, this is a fair forum, and it will get a hearing. You are not the only one here in BHOs corner.

But, LGF has been monitoring BHO for some time. We know a lot about him already.

Astonishing. So many ways to read this.

One possibility? - If Senator government/ Chairman Notion loses - Biden is set up as the willing scapegoat.

Israel gets nuked by Iran. Israel asks us to end in troops to help revenge their losses. We do not assist Israel...

The US is severely attacked. We do not aggressively pursue terrorists...

re: #59 Ben Hur

Imagine if a GOPer raised that kind of money. You'd be hearing endlessly that the GOPer was buying the election.

Here? *crickets*

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Sounds like somebody just had a security briefing.

I don't agree
I think it is just someone who realized the responsibility that faces the POTUS

I think it is time for Bush to call a presser and admit Joe is right
then give up a few classified threats (fuck it, he is a lame duck and can declassify anything he wants) and tell the country and the world that we face these threats and that team Obamastan is not worthy

re: #19 Cato the Elder

"Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you."

Well, maybe it won't be such a bad thing. After all, a Hugo-Chavez-socialist-dictatorship scenario for the formerly greatest and most free country in the world can't be too bad, eh?

I don't think it's Obama himself who scares me so much as his Obamatons.

re: #32 Ben Hur

"I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate"

Yes, of course Biden gave concrete examples! To wit:

1) Hizballah attempts to re-enter Lebanon, even though we teamed up with the French to kick them out.

2) Indians with "slight Indian accents" attempt to take over all the 7-11s in Delaware.

3) China invades the US to attempt to force us to use clean coal, too.

4) Italian partisans take up arms to defend Biden's Beretta shotgun from confiscation.

5) Cambodian double-amputees riot when they are unable to comply with then-VP Biden's demand to "stand up so we can see you".

re: #61 lawhawk

he would go have tea with them. they are so misunderstood you know.

Rush talking about the Biden nonsense right out of the box.

Obviously the quote is fabricated. The world loves Obama. Right?

re: #11 Nevergiveup

Let me translate that for you: We are gonna be selling some allies down the river!

Bingo!

And let me translate that for you: "Israel is f*cked!"

No matter what horrible things we do or how stupid we sound - trust us, and remember that a vote for Obama is a blank cheque./

re: #69 tfc3rid

Israel gets nuked by Iran. Israel asks us to end in troops to help revenge their losses. We do not assist Israel...

The US is severely attacked. We do not aggressively pursue terrorists...

Israel will not ask for troops only material and diplomatic support. Obama will tell them to lose his number.

"And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him..."

code for:

"We don't need your money anymore. Soros and other illegal foreign donors have that covered. Besides, we will be taxing you so much - you won't have any money to give us."

re: #62 amphibian

I kinda wondered that myself (But, hey, it's a nifty literary allusion!)

(Actually, since Bush isn't running this election, I kinda wonder what he has to do with it, too).

Why am I voting for The One if his election will cause an international crisis within six months?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Good to see you again. I'm sorry you've become ill and I hope things are getting better. Hang in there.
I'm also not a big McCain supporter and catch a lot of heat for it sometimes. If you're not feeling well perhaps it's best to engage in such battles. As I'm sure you recall LGF can be a tough room and that hasn't changed.

Hang in there.

What an interesting admission from Joe Biden, who states pretty clearly that Barack Obama’s youth and lack of experience will lead to “an international crisis.”

Well, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

To me, this sounds like setting the table. It sounds to me like we are being prepared to do something we normally might not do. To agree to something we might not normally agree with. To act against what our normal principles.

And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

We will do something wrong, and be told that we MUST do it, for Obama's sake - even in the face of all reason.

Up will be down, and wrong will be right in Dear LeaderLand. We are being mentally groomed for it.

re: #41 DistantThunder

Neither of these metrosexual bozos will have the cajones to do the right thing. Hey boys, leave it to the real men: McCain-Palin

If what we get from Biden if McCain is elected then we get lower taxes and no terrorist attacks.
Leave it to a real man and a real woman (Hokey mom with lipstick!) to lead this country! Go McCain-Palin!

For the first time in his illustrious, bloviating, 35 year Senatorial stint, Biden is correct. Of course Obama will be immediately tested by the people who desperately want to bring us to our knees. Why in the hell else would every enemy of this country actively support Obama for President? They know that he's soft as a marshmellow and that he probably holds this country in as low an esteem as they do.

And we're a couple of weeks away from possibly giving this guy the keys to the White House. My head hurts.

re: #83 arethusa

Why am I voting for The One if his election will cause an international crisis within six months?

What are you? Some kind of racist?

/

[Link: www1.irna.ir...]
This looks like preparation for a Obama presidency......

re: #83 arethusa

Why am I voting for The One if his election will cause an international crisis within six months?

good god
you just made an instant quote of the day/week/year/election

I reckon that Joe Biden is McCain's October Surprise! LOL!

If I wasn't waiting for the plumber, I'd go vote for McCain today, the first day of early voting in Texas. But it's on the schedule for early tomorrow!

Joe is suffering from ingrown hair .....those plugs can be dangerous ....

re: #57 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Surrender Dorothy Barack

SIT DOWN WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS DOROTHY

Cato- try to use facts - and don't use ad hominem attacks if we respond with facts and data.

I would refer you to all my posts on this and the previous thread on the many problems with socialism.

By the way, the Catholics are saying that his stance on abortion is the most extreme they've ever encountered. It is actually PRO-abortion, not just pro-choice.

Of course I am not going to mention what I think, but you all know that I am thinking it.
:)

Imagine the outrage of Rush had made this prediction!

re: #19 Cato the Elder

If there is a politically difficult decision Obama has had to make, I'd like to know about it. He would have to do that as President, and I don't see a track record there. It is rational to have doubts about this aspect of his ability to handle an international crisis.

For once Biden gets it right

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Just a quick question from an old poster, folks. (I have been hors de combat for some time now due to a lengthy bout with severe, disabling illness, so have contributed only very irregularly in the past few years.)

As background, I was a lifelong Democrat who got mugged by 9/11 and tricked (as I now see it) into backing Bush (I voted for him in 2004) in his futile policies of illegal wiretapping, unlawful detentions and torture, CIA black sites and extraordinary rendition, et cetera. I won't even begin to address the war in Iraq here. It may or may not turn out to be a good thing on balance, but the fact is we were lied to about the reasons for military intervention, and although that country may turn out to be a nifty forward base in any confrontation with Iran (a much more dangerous opponent), it's hard to see what other benefit the war has brought, unless strengthening Al Qaeda can be seen as a plus.

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

Just askin', you know, because I wouldn't want to disturb the general chorus, upset the applecart, ruin the consensus or otherwise harm the tenor of LGF's ongoing discussion.

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Faithfully yours,

--Old Cato

I am afraid the croaking will be loud, unless, like Dionysus, you join them. Perhaps you will be shown more respect than others.

Joe knows that the media will not cover this. He can say whatever he wants. He could get up there in drag and do a rendition of "Hello Dolly" and it wouldn't matter.

Biden is right. Certain elements are going to look at him like Khrushchev did Kennedy, and figure "fuck it, we're free to do what we want, because this kid is an idiot." And they'll be right.

Biden the Coward is acknowledging that they'll have to respond somehow, and as we know, responding to international crises with anything other than the almighty Talking does not go over well with the followers of Messiah Zero. Biden doesn't ever want to bomb anybody unless the bombing will be easy, quick, and make Democrats look good. Obama's attitude might be a little different.

He's saying "Pleeeeeeease don't hate us for acting like Republicans, because we might have to". I don't know why he's worried, since the media will be working extra hard to ensure that the Double Standard is working as it should:

Republican bombing anybody: Evil war-monger-er, gnarrrr!

Democrat bombing anybody: Enlightened Pope of Peace who Sadly has to use Tough Measures to Save People Just This Once.

re: #81 FrogMarch

Actually, all this talk about how Obama's going to need all our help and support, if we elect him, makes me a bit nervous. It sounds like they're planning some really big changes down the road, and they want to make sure, even before the election, that we'll go along with them obediently, and not question the Light Bearer too much.

re: #98 redshirt

Imagine the outrage of Rush had made this prediction!

/Imagine if Sarah Palin had said it.

Anyone who is pro- Israel, particularly Jews, and been on forums for a while has encountered the anti Semites who insist to know whether in a military confrontation between the US and Israel, who will the pro Israel Jew support.

It was always a crazy question from crazy people.

But is it now if Obama is President and has an adviser- Samantha Powers- who has advocated a massive US troop deployment to help the "Palestinians" "protect" themselves from Israel.

Whenever one quotes Joe Biden, please keep the following link handy.

Biden making excuses for the BHO presidency already. That doesn't bode well.

re: #76 reggie

Obviously the quote is fabricated. The world loves Obama. Right?

DING DING! We have a winner!

I'm expecting the Red Army to overrun what's left of Georgia within 36 hours after a BHO inauguration.

Biden is right, the next president will be immediately tested just as Bush was with the Chinese forcing down our Awacs plane within a few months of his inauguration.

But Biden stupidly suggests it will be because its Obama. How in the world does it make ANY sense to bring up the best scenario AGAINST voting for your candidate?

Biden is clueless beyond conception.

And god forbid, if that were to happen, comrades Barry & Biden will aim to raise our taxes to give us all an opportunity to be "patriotic."

re: #93 Timbre

If I wasn't waiting for the plumber, I'd go vote for McCain today, the first day of early voting in Texas. But it's on the schedule for early tomorrow!

Hope it's Joe the Plumber. Seems like a heads-up kind of guy. :-)

Cloward Piven governance.

Using a crisis to move the country in an unnatural direction.

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Sounds like somebody just had a security briefing.

Probably was told to keep his mouth shut about this - but hey, its fun to hint at being in possession of secret knowledge, which us peasants are too stupid to understand.

Ahh - the burden of office is heavy ...

re: #104 TalkinKamel

Actually, all this talk about how Obama's going to need all our help and support, if we elect him, makes me a bit nervous. It sounds like they're planning some really big changes down the road, and they want to make sure, even before the election, that we'll go along with them obediently, and not question the Light Bearer too much.

Obedience.

Yes. Good word choice.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

What a load of unhistorical crap. Just a few clues for you:

1. Bush didn't start the practice of wiretapping foreign phone calls & it's not illegal.

2. Bush didn't start the practice of extraordinary rendition, Clinton did, with the hearty endorsement of his VP Al Gore.

3. Al Qaeda is not stronger now because of Iraq, it's weaker. That's because thousands of them were killed in Iraq.

Out of the mouths of babes, ah boneheads.....
What we have known all along. They are just waiting to hit us. Save us from these fools!

Well hell, that makes me wanna vote for Obama just to find out whats going to happen!

Dumbass.

re: #80 Nevergiveup

Israel will not ask for troops only material and diplomatic support. Obama will tell them to lose his number.

Israel brings down the Iranian/Greek Columns down before any of this happens.

Don't think so..................................

Read your history. Israel has learned from the past.
They will NOT repeat it.

No more getting on freight cars.

re: #76 reggie

Obviously the quote is fabricated. The world loves Obama. Right?

Exactly, because he "looks more like them".

(Like whom, in particular?)

Shut up, you racist!

/

re: #106 Opinionated

Opinonated, yes, it does sound to me like they may be planning something like that.

(Sorry, Cato---Israel is one reason I can't support Obama).

O/T, but here goes:

Charles and LGF helped bring down John Kerry in '04 (by bringing down Dan Rather). If McCain wins, he should seat Matt Drudge on the front row of the Inauguration stage.

Clicking on his web site (many times a day as I do) is like a constant stream of subliminal messages warning the reader that Obama is a dangerous threat to our country. He's our only hope of putting anti-Obama articles out in the forefront of millions of web surfers who would never hear of them otherwise.

If Obama does win, how long will it be for his Brown Shirts in Congress go after The Drudge Report (along with Sean, Rush, et al)?

re: #55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And they had the shit scared out of them and have decided that they do not want to become Vice-President after all...

That was my exact feeling.

"we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

So when people awake from this Obamatrance and begin to speak out about how wrong headed Obamapolitic is ruining our society and nation, the Obamorganizers will use their "influence" to spread the proper Obamatruth to the local Obamacommun, and we will see that Joe was right. Just trust him.

So in one week we go from Obama admitting he wants to spread the wealth around-AKA socialism-to Biden admitting a pacifist may have just a wee bit o' trouble convincing some world characters he's not gonna lay down and cower. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.

Tryrants will look at o like prison thugs look at new inmates

I confess.

I keep hope alive but am feeling very despondent.

This is no ordinary election. I believe totally that if Obama is elected very bad things will happen.

Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right

This worries me immensely. Does he mean we'll capitulate? If so, why would that bother those voters? Does he mean we'll respond with overwhelming military might? That does not fit the BHO we know.

MSM: "McCain's dirty campaign tactics continue!" Wait, it was Biden and not McCain?!

Nevermind guys, let's get back to Joe 'filthy tax-dodging non-plumber' Wurzelbacher.

Is this guy for real?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Just a quick question from an old poster, folks. (I have been hors de combat for some time now due to a lengthy bout with severe, disabling illness, so have contributed only very irregularly in the past few years.)

As background, I was a lifelong Democrat who got mugged by 9/11 and tricked (as I now see it) into backing Bush (I voted for him in 2004) in his futile policies of illegal wiretapping, unlawful detentions and torture, CIA black sites and extraordinary rendition, et cetera. I won't even begin to address the war in Iraq here. It may or may not turn out to be a good thing on balance, but the fact is we were lied to about the reasons for military intervention, and although that country may turn out to be a nifty forward base in any confrontation with Iran (a much more dangerous opponent), it's hard to see what other benefit the war has brought, unless strengthening Al Qaeda can be seen as a plus.

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

Just askin', you know, because I wouldn't want to disturb the general chorus, upset the applecart, ruin the consensus or otherwise harm the tenor of LGF's ongoing discussion.

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Faithfully yours,

--Old Cato

re: #116 mama winger

{MamaWinger!}

:>)

(Yeah, it just sounds too much like "Give your Heart to the Party!" to me. Okay, Cato, another reason I don't support Obama. That, and the fact that Biden will be president, if, G-d forbid, anything happens to him).

Hark?
Is that the politics of fear?

After 9/11 and Mogadishu - the US had to prove to the world that you don't fuck with us. Life is tough. Freedom is hard. Deal.

re: #83 arethusa

Why am would I votinge for The One if his election will cause an international crisis within six months?

Shoulda said that the first time around I am obviously not voting for The One.

But I think I'll buttonhole Obama-pin wearers and ask them the question I first asked, and watch their heads spin around.../

re: #19 Cato the Elder

I am sorry to hear illness. I hope today you are posting because you feel well.

I have no problem at all with Obama supporters, with reasoned reasons. I noted this in your nic...

"I say, "Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam".

I am asking this will all respect, have you seen any evidence that Obama would move toward that goal?

re: #93 Timbre

If I wasn't waiting for the plumber, I'd go vote for McCain today, the first day of early voting in Texas. But it's on the schedule for early tomorrow!

June is voting today (we're in Texas, too). I have this strange feeling that I should wait until Election Day, just in case the early votes are deemed questionable (ACORN), and get thrown out.

Joe the Dumber.

re: #125 lacerta

I really dislike all this talk about "faith" and how what they're doing will be "right". (How can Biden be so sure? How can any ordinary human be so sure?)

Gaza's Obama campaign

/think they can't see it coming down the pike?

re: #111 jjag

First Obama with his invading Pakistan, now Biden. These guys can't keep their mouths shut, how are they going to protect this country doing shit like this?

re: #119 logboy

Well hell, that makes me wanna vote for Obama just to find out whats going to happen!

That would be crazy. Crazy EXCITING!

/McCain on SNL

What could possibly go wrong? Besides the deaths of thousands, I mean

re: #126 solomonpanting

So in one week we go from Obama admitting he wants to spread the wealth around-AKA socialism-to Biden admitting a pacifist may have just a wee bit o' trouble convincing some world characters he's not gonna lay down and cower. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.

Just wait. You're going to love next week when he pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

“It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy.

That is one hell of an admission the, Joe!

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

I think an Obama presidency will be an unrelieved disaster.

Don't worry - Big Crisis - Obama will simply vote PRESENT!

re: #19 Cato the Elder

I am sorry to hear of your illness, I hope you get well soon.

Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

I believe this technique is known in formal debate as "poisoning the well".

re: #19 Cato the Elder

I wish you a speedy recovery and wish you well. As for your political question about Obama, I think it is clear that he is the most inexperienced candidate to be this close to the Presidency in perhaps 100 years - maybe more. There isn't anything to warrant his support. Where is his experience or special insight that somehow makes him preferable to a candidate who has more experience?

He has no real legislative accomplishments to his name, and while he's a transfigurative politician by virtue of being the first African American in US history to be in a position to win the Presidency, it doesn't mean that he's proffering a policy set that actually protects the US. His foreign policy team is a bunch of Carter retreads, and filled in with Clinton politicians like Gorelick, Holder, and others who undermined US national security. Throw in his connections to Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines, and you've got to question his judgment on financial matters since Johnson and Raines would be perpwalked had they been leading a company like Enron - they were engaging in the same kinds of activities and leading the way to the financial credit market meltdown by their shady practices and aided and abetted by other Democrats, including Dodd and Frank.

To address the issue of Iraq briefly, at the time of the invasion, we were going on the best information available - both what we gleaned from our intel sources, and what Saddam said; it was only after we were in country months later that we determined that his WMD programs were not as we believed.

It's akin to the situation in Syria. The Israelis bombed a facility in Syria on September 6 of 2006; 9 months later, the Syrians allow the IAEA to view parts of the site, and it's been scrubbed. No way to know what really was there - but it's all highly suspect. Much could happen in the intervening period between when the drumbeat of going to enforce 17 UN resolutions and the final deadline gave Saddam and his henchmen the time and opportunity to hide, dismantle, destroy, or even create a Potemkin vision of a WMD complex in Iraq to possibly bluster his way away from being attacked by the US (ie - bluffing in poker with a crap hand).

re: #44 sparrowlake

Biden has shit for brains.

There is no need to insult shit like that.

McCain really should use this in a commercial. His version of the 3 AM call.

Finally, some level-headed honesty from that camp.

I was thinking that over several months ago. I live by the following words of wisdom:

"Appeasement only makes an aggressor more aggressive."

You cannot go to the table with madmen; the pen is not always mightier than the sword, and our enemies have a tendency to hide hordes of fellow madmen behind their smiles and illusions of good will.

re: #132 TalkinKamel

{MamaWinger!}

:>)

(Yeah, it just sounds too much like "Give your Heart to the Party!" to me.

It sounds too much like "Give your heart to Stan" , to me.

I better quit now :P

Well it looks like this "Crisis" is almost assured. What with New Yorkers setting up temporary residence in Ohio so that they can vote for Obama.

Four well-heeled New York Democrats are under investigation by an Ohio prosecutor for setting up a temporary home in the swing state - where two have already cast their ballots - just so that their votes will be counted there, The Post has learned.

Ezra Taft Benson - former secretary of agriculture under Eisenhower - implemented the Marshall Plan

In September 1959, Soviet dictator Nikita Khrushchev visited the United States. During his visit he said to then Secretary of Agriculture, Ezra Taft Benson, "Your children will live under communism."

"On the contrary," Secretary Benson replied, "My grandchildren will live in freedom as I hope that all people will."

Khrushchev then retorted (in essence): "You Americans are so gullible. No, you won't accept Communism outright; but we'll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find that you already have Communism. We won't have to fight you; we'll so weaken your economy, until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands."

re: #146 buzzsawmonkey

Nice.

Now, I'm feeling there's a Joe Biden doing "We've Got Trouble (Right Here in River City)" parody just aching to come into existence. And you're the man for the job.

A crisis to Biden is when he gets up in the morning and can't pee.

re: #139 Killian Bundy

Gaza's Obama campaign

/think they can't see it coming down the pike?

Right.

Why wouldn't they unleash the third Intifada (as if the first two ever stopped) if they have a perceived (perceived?) ally in the White House?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Good to see you Cato the Elder. Out of respect for your postings in the past, I'd be interested to see what you have to say in support of Obama, but I don't expect to see anything to sway my opinion.

Take care of yourself.

re: #120 smokefire

"Read your history. Israel has learned from the past."

Exactly. Within days of the Obama election, Israeli jets will be headed to Iran.

If Bush does not give the green light for Israel to fly over Iraq, I (who have supported him through all the crap hurled at him by the media) will damn his soul to hell.

Israel will have until January 20, 2009 to save itself.

re: #28 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Putin and the Norks will eat his lunch.

Putin will roll Barry over like a Russian "bride".

re: #61 lawhawk

Good point about the law enforcement.
Thats exactly whats been going on here since 7/7.
Lst week the House of Lords threw out for the third time the proposal of the NuLab regime to hold 'terror suspects' for 42 (thats forty-two!) days without bringing a prosecution demand before a judge ...
Oh - and the 'anti-terrorist law' tof reeze bank assets of terror suspects?
Heh - didn't happen for terror suspects - but they froze all assets of thsoe Icelandic Banks which collapsed a couple of weeks ago ...

Oh - but don't be afraid: if you're innocent you've got nothing to fear, right?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

(I have been hors de combat for some time now due to a lengthy bout with severe, disabling illness, so have contributed only very irregularly in the past few years.)

I hope and pray that thing as looking better for you now!

re: #144 Son of the Black Dog

I think an Obama presidency will be an unrelieved disaster.

I think an Obama presidency, with a majority Democrat Congress, would be the beginning of the end of America.

Biden:

"I See A Bad Moon Risin'"

Brother Joe sure does have a mouth on him.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

If you can give reasons why any sane person with a slight knowledge (or more) of history, who has actually done their homework on the actual past (as opposed to the POSE) of Obama, should vote for him, go ahead and try.

I have yet to hear an Obama supporter say anyone should vote for The One for anything other than the following:

1-To do otherwise is racist
2-He will do wonderful (and unspecified) things for everyone!
3-To make the world love us (who cares? they never loved us)
4-Sarah Palin never attended an Ivy League college and besides, her chromosomes match

re: #137 Ben Hur

Joe the Dumber.

heh. Didja see mine. Your's is better. But I like mine too. #31.

Hope you get lots of dings too (ahem, hint hint)!

re: #160 Son of the Black Dog

Putin will roll Barry over like a Russian "bride".

Maybe BHO will be the Russian Bride! :)

re: #163 mama winger

I think an Obama presidency, with a majority Democrat Congress, would be the beginning of the end of America.

I think that this country is stronger than any one political party or political leader.

re: #50 StudSupreme

Regarding Obama:
If you can honestly and truthfully see one single reason why he isn't the worst thing to happen to western civilization since the Bubonic Plague, please tell us.

That's setting the bar pretty low, Stud. Having been around since the glory days of the Roman Republic, having witnessed the Empire and the Sack of Rome, followed a millennium later by the end of the Eastern Empire and the Fall of Constantinople, and having so far survived every plague from cholera to typhus to the Black Death, I can assure you that there are and have always been far worse things than a Democratic presidency.

And having seen the economic destruction wrought on this country by the lobbyists' bought-and-paid-for deregulating pols in Congress for the benefit of the prestidigitating greedheads on Wall Street - something that both sides of the aisle were responsible for, but that was perfected under Bush Jr. - I can certainly get behind a candidate who shows every indication of wanting to change the corporate-dominated business-as-usual racketeering that passes for "serving the people" in Washington today. McCain talks a good game about being a maverick and all, but if you look at his corporate connections, they tell a different story.

Is Obama squeaky clean? Of course not. You don't get to be a front-running presidential candidate without compromise. But will he bring a breath of fresh air to the rich man's club that is currently our government? You betcha!

That's just one of the reasons I support him.

Thanks for listening.

Biden is bizarre.

Don't suppose these "unpopular decisions" might have to do with raising taxes on those making less than $250,000 do we?

re: #159 crown_of_feathers

thank you.

But is it now if Obama is President and has an adviser- Samantha Powers- who has advocated a massive US troop deployment to help the "Palestinians" "protect" themselves from Israel.

Oh good, sounds like the old early 50's 60's terms of
Russian "volunteers" being sent to protect the peace loving Palestinians.

Damn we are back in the way back machine again

All the world's evil leaders, large and small await with glee the chance that obambi will be President. They are already sharpening knives, readying bombs, making plans to run amok. Because the One will not do anything to stop them.

re: #142 logboy

So in one week we go from Obama admitting he wants to spread the wealth around-AKA socialism-to Biden admitting a pacifist may have just a wee bit o' trouble convincing some world characters he's not gonna lay down and cower. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.

Just wait. You're going to love next week when he pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

Hey Logboy ..... I posted about your video the other night but think you were gone ..... anyway, great video and you are a handsome young man (just stating the facts and I am not a guy) and thank you so very much for your service .......

re: #146 buzzsawmonkey

I'm beat-boxin' yo!

If Joe Biden didn't exist, we'd have to invent him. The Walking Gaffe Machine.

re: #26 Vergeltung

we'll absolutely get hit in the first 6 months.

I'm guessing Feb 1 2009 -- Superbowl Sunday.

The first thing we should expect is a full scale US invasion of Darfur, Sudan.

But it won't happen.

More ribbons will be made, though.

This is interesting....seems every Republican Obama mentions as somebody he wants to bring into his administration has "something in common"....
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

re: #163 mama winger

I think an Obama presidency, with a majority Democrat Congress, would be the beginning of the end of America.

Sounds alarmist. Sounds black helicopter crazy. Sounds insane.

Yet I too, who usually like to think of myself as calm and rational, also fear that it will be beginning of the end of American as we know her. And will quicken the end of Israel.

re: #184 Opinionated

Sounds alarmist. Sounds black helicopter crazy. Sounds insane.

Yet I too, who usually like to think of myself as calm and rational, also fear that it will be beginning of the end of American as we know her. And will quicken the end of Israel.

Not to worry.

The Senate and the House, Dem or otherwise, 90% supports Israel.

It's America I worry about.

re: #173 kansas

Don't suppose these "unpopular decisions" might have to do with raising taxes on those making less than $250,000 do we?

According to the currently BHO plan, the actual amount is $200k for individuals and $250k for married filing jointly. But yes, once Harry and Nancy have their say, everyone will see a tax increase.

re: #185 Ben Hur

I am scared of BHO and not sure that we will make it out alive!

re: #120 smokefire

Israel brings down the Iranian/Greek Columns down before any of this happens.

Don't think so..................................

Read your history. Israel has learned from the past.
They will NOT repeat it.

No more getting on freight cars.

Maybe Maybe. But Israel doesn't have a very big margin of error here. One or two weapons of mass destruction can devastate the country. Now I don 't think at this point Israel's enemies have the were with all to deliver said weapons, but I hope and pray Israel never waits around to find out. But who are the leaders of Israel today. I have read the and lived the history, sometimes I wonder if they have? And if tomorrow Israel took out some of Iran's Nuclear capabilities, I would support them 100% but don't doubt that there would be serious consequences for Israel. And with out US diplomatic cover, it could get very bad. And there would also in all likely hood be massive conventional retaliation from Hezbollah and Hamas and possibly also Syria. Sure Israel will survive and triumph, but many Innocent Israelis will die. And if this happens all because Obama lets Israel hang out there and dangle in the wind, I for one will hold him and all my Jewish brethren personally responsible for that catastrophe!

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Is Obama squeaky clean? Of course not. You don't get to be a front-running presidential candidate without compromise. But will he bring a breath of fresh air to the rich man's club that is currently our government? You betcha!

You're talking about the guy who's raised $650 million to win the Presidency? He's got Hollywood elites and East Coast liberal establishment falling over themselves to donate madly to get him the Presidency.

How exactly is he not a rich man, after signing a million dollar book deal? His wife was making 6 figures. Claiming that he's going to breath fresh air simply is a straw man.

It will simply be a different administration - just as surely as it was a different administration coming in to the White House in 2001 when Bush took over from eight years of Clinton. We'd have a new administration - for better or worse.

With Obama, I'm betting on worse, and wishing that it not be the case because too much rides on it.

re: #175 ploome hineni

respect for what?

why?

I was slammed pretty hard on Friday for criticizing McCain. My hope is that someone here will actually respond to Cato as opposed to just insulting him, thats all. "Respect" a fellow human being enough to honestly answer a question, or challenge a view, as opposed to just labeling someone a liberal or some such crap.

re: #186 DeafDog

According to the currently BHO plan, the actual amount is $200k for individuals and $250k for married filing jointly. But yes, once Harry and Nancy have their say, everyone will see a tax increase.

Someone's got to foot the bill for the youth indoctrination and re-education camps.

re: #185 Ben Hur

Not to worry.

The Senate and the House, Dem or otherwise, 90% supports Israel.

It's America I worry about.

Ben, remember, though, that dissent will be stifled, we will all be in lockstep with the ONE. He will speak with the VOICE of the Obamessiah, and they will listen and obey. (HUMOR, I hope)

Biden is an example of someone elected to a position that is way above their pay-grade.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Okay, can you name one tough decision Obama has made in a crisis? Tell us how he held up under pressure and showed his leadership.

cue the crickets........

We survived Jimmah Carter, we'll survive obama. The damage will take years to repair. We still have FDR and failed Great Society programs alive and causing no end of misery.

re: #191 Creeping Eruption

Or a frog.

re: #169 Jamie

I think that this country is stronger than any one political party or political leader.

I used to believe that as well. I figured, heck, McCain drives me insane with all his 'in your face, republicans!' tactics. I said to myself, "Self, we can handle 4 years of Obama..."

Now that I see what Obama is and how tainted the political dynamic is...I don't think we can recover from the policies that will be pushed even just in 4 short years.

The senate may have a super majority of Dem's. The President will be a Dem. The Judiciary will be destroyed if the speculated 3 seats upcoming to be filled are 'Obama', appointees.

The last bastion for the Good guys is the House of Representatives...that's it. No more checks. No more balances.

That can't be good thing. Obama must lose. Even the sadistic, masochistic, tin foil hat crazy in me says this about Obama, "Stay very far away...".

re: #102 bellamags

Joe knows that the media will not cover this. He can say whatever he wants. He could get up there in drag and do a rendition of "Hello Dolly" and it wouldn't matter.

The MSM will can it but the NSM will see that it gets heard by those who listen and watch the NSM, that is and I hear tons of Dems are NSM fans.

You used 'rendition' and that'll get Cato the Elder going again...PIMPLMAO

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Cato, I haven't seen you here in ages (yes, I do remember you), and I guess I'm more than a little disappointed that you're considering a vote for Obama.

Obama would gut our defense, in order to pay for all his new problems, along with taxing the productive in order to buy the votes of the non-productive through his new welfare scheme (his tax cuts). Every enemy of ours will be working overtime, in order to get over on us.

No, McCain wasn't the first, second, or even third choice for most of us lizards, but it's who we've got, and he's light-years better than Obama.

re: #189 Nevergiveup

I mean my jewish brethern that support Obama.

re: #131 Tigger2005

Is this guy for real?

Cato the Elder

The Roman Cato the Elder ended every speech thus: "Ceterum censeo Carthaginam esse delendam." I say, "Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam" - "By the way, I think Islam must be destroyed."

I'd certainly say so.

re: #196 pingjockey

The misery would be seeing BHO all the time.

re: #128 Opinionated

And does Biden feel the same way? Foreshadowing some catastrophic disaster, should The Zero be elected?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Obama won't be substantively different than Bill Clinton. The experience issue is probably the strongest argument against him, but given the role that experienced insiders have in any administration, the importance of the actual executive himself having significant experience is overstated, IMO.

At the same time, I scoff at those who think this election is over and I think that the experience argument is probably the reason why.

re: #170 Cato the Elder

If you want fresh air open the window. But how exactly does a corrupt junior Senator with the corrupt Chicago machine behind him and a bucket of corrupt Fanny Mae & Freddie Mac campaign donations represent "change"? Isn't Obama more of the same?

re: #169 Jamie

I think that this country is stronger than any one political party or political leader.

It used to be.

1. What happens if the second amendment is gutted? Both Obama and Biden are on the record as saying they don't favor citizens with handguns?

2. What will happen to our education system if Ayers-style goals are implemented? Teachers will be teaching socialism even more than they already are. The next generation will not respect capitalism or even know what it looks like.

3. What happens if we become a 'share the wealth' economy? What happens to small business?

4. What happens in the face of an islamic threat if appeasement becomes the way of America? Death and sharia.

5. What happens to the respect for human life, in the face of pro-abortion and duty-to die become the standard?

6. What happens to our health care if it is nationalized and rationed?

7. What happens to our military's capacity to defend us?

8. What happens to the Jews? Israel?

9. What happens to freedom of speech in the wake of 'hate speech' legislation?

10. What happens to America in the wake of becoming 'globalists'?

re: #19 Cato the Elder

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

I have several reasons for not backing Barack Obama, even before he was shown to be connected to terrorists such as Bill Ayres.

Obama has consistently been the most socialistic of the Illinois delegation to Washington.

Obama has voted to raise taxes and against the Illinois Born Alive Act.

Obama was derelict in his duty in the Illinois Senate by voting "present" far more often than anyone else.

Obama has been derelict in his duty as a US Senator for Illinois by campaigning for president almost as soon as he assumed office. As much as it pains me to say it, Dick Durbin has done more for Illinois as a Senator than Barack Obama.

Obama is a cog of the Chicago political establishment, and as such, carries the taint of its corruption. He never challenged the establishment a la Sarah Palin in Alaska. He always went with the grain.

Obama won his first seat by trickery. He managed to get all the other viable candidates disqualified. Then, I found what was done by his campaign in the 2004 US Senate election to be despicable. Obama would not have made it out of the Democratic primary if not for his slights of hand.

Obama is a Chicago Democrat. 'Nough said for me to vote against him.

And that does not deal with Ayres, Dohrn, Hamas, Obama's Rainbow Tour, or anything else.

From the linked column:

(Biden) "It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man ...."

(then, in the very next paragraph, emphasis mine) The Delaware lawmaker managed to rake in an estimated $1 million total from his two money hauls at the downtown Sheraton

Yeah, Joe, yer good at rakin' out ... er, in ... that shit!

re: #173 kansas

Don't suppose these "unpopular decisions" might have to do with raising taxes on those making less than $250,000 do we?

That was my first thought. Get ready for massive layoffs and be prepared for extensive lifestyle changes. If your household depends on two incomes, be prepared to make do one on income. This really sucks.

So is Joe covering his ass for something he thinks might happen, or something he knows will happen?

re: #185 Ben Hur

Not to worry.

The Senate and the House, Dem or otherwise, 90% supports Israel.

It's America I worry about.

Worry about both.

In an Obama Administration, Congress will be a supplicant and if any Jewish advocacy group will have dominance it will be the Soros controlled J-Street.

re: #39 Opinionated

Biden:

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it,"

I know I've said this before, but:

Biden doesn't have 35 years of experience in the Senate. He has one year of experience 35 times.

re: #189 Nevergiveup

Maybe Maybe. But Israel doesn't have a very big margin of error here. One or two weapons of mass destruction can devastate the country. Now I don 't think at this point Israel's enemies have the were with all to deliver said weapons, but I hope and pray Israel never waits around to find out. But who are the leaders of Israel today. I have read the and lived the history, sometimes I wonder if they have? And if tomorrow Israel took out some of Iran's Nuclear capabilities, I would support them 100% but don't doubt that there would be serious consequences for Israel. And with out US diplomatic cover, it could get very bad. And there would also in all likely hood be massive conventional retaliation from Hezbollah and Hamas and possibly also Syria. Sure Israel will survive and triumph, but many Innocent Israelis will die. And if this happens all because Obama lets Israel hang out there and dangle in the wind, I for one will hold him and all my Jewish brethren personally responsible for that catastrophe!

Well put.
Yes there will be innocents, but in war there are 2 rules
1. innocents die
2. you can't change rule 1

I wonder what he means by this:

"...we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

It's not gonna be apparent that we're right, why? Because they're planning to not respond militarily to protect our country? Because if someone goes after Israel, they're not going to interfere? Because we will already have begun to disassemble our military so that we aren't an offending superpower anymore? What do you think he means by this?

re: #207 Kenneth

Well, it's change all right -- but change for the worse...

Just thought of a campaign add.......
The Rebath monkey crew at Biden headquarters.....
Would THAT be RACIST?
LOL

re: #184 Opinionated

"Yet I too, who usually like to think of myself as calm and rational, also fear that it will be beginning of the end of American as we know her"

Funny you should say that. I was just talking this over with my wife last night, and I was telling her that I am beginning to become frightened about this. Something different is going on here, with the Obama phenomenon, that is unlike what we have seen before in this country, and it is starting to scare the crap out of me.

re: #215 Son of the Black Dog

I know I've said this before, but:

Biden doesn't have 35 years of experience in the Senate. He has one year of experience 35 times.

Tenure does not equate with experience. He's put in his time, and nothing more.

"....Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

Biden is correct, although he's mighty stupid to say it out loud.

I've been saying this for a while. If Obama is elected, our enemies (probably Russia and / or Iran) will test him almost immediately, and if his first reaction is perceived as weak, if he calls for talks or goes straight to the UN, they will know that their presumptions are correct. They will know that Obama is what he seems to be, a soft power American version of the Euroweenie leader.

If Obama becomes President - and it looks like he will - Iran, I have no doubt, will test a nuclear weapon during Obama's first term....Unless, of course, Israel preempts it alone.

re: #170 Cato the Elder

by the lobbyists' bought-and-paid-for deregulating pols

Oh, dear.

You've really taken the Kool-Aid.

re: #170 Cato the Elder

As a relative newcomer, I too hope you are feeling better - and stay healthy.

I do, however, respectively disagree with some of your take on deregulation. In great part, it was regulation that ignited the current financial bonfire.

My point is that there are basically two types of regulation. First, regulation that prevents you from doing something. Second, regulation that either encourages or forces you to do something.

The CRA, particularly after being beefed up in the mid-nineties, actually falls under the second category. Banks were encouraged/forced to make loans (by community groups like ACORN and the federal government) to people they otherwise probably would not have.

In that sense, regulation contributed to the problem, not deregulation.

However, more oversight on the ancillary activities (MBS's and CDS's) might well be another matter.

Again, stay well.

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Sorry to hear that you've been ill and I hope you are feeling better soon.

But will he bring a breath of fresh air to the rich man's club that is currently our government? You betcha!

Obama has raised close to a billion dollars for his campaign and you think he's not a member of the rich man's club?

He now owns the rich man's club in national political circles.

So, meanwhile, how are his old community organized folks doing in Chicago? They're living in buildings (in his specific area of organizing) that are falling down while young blacks murder each other far more than U.S. soldiers are killed in combat in Iraq.

Look at what he's done to the people in his own sphere and then have a clear idea about what this would do on a scale of 300 million people.

If his own people in Chicago were far better off rather than being worse off and killing each other, I might have some respect for the guy. I don't.

He wants to turn America into a socialist hellhole,

There is nothing "fresh air" about this (and it's not the American dream.)

Don't expect to convince people here otherwise. LGFers are awake.

In a way, I feel sorry for Joe Biden. He needs psychological help. Apparently, at one time he probably was a great dreamer who really wanted to do good and serve his country with all his passion. But one day, December 18, 1972, to be exact, it all changed for him. The death of his wife and daughter changed him. I believe he has never come to closure for that event. And in that, it appears that it affected his communication and social skills. He'll be honest one day and the next he'll toe the party line.

re: #142 logboy

Just wait. You're going to love next week when he pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

Like this?

re: #19 Cato the Elder
Hey Old Cato! You are not the only one out here who's for Obama - JustMyView practically qualifies as an Obama Cheerleader.
But you've been around long enough to know that if you're gonna cite specific "facts" about either Obama or McCain, you're gonna need links to verify those facts.
I'm very sorry that you've been suffering from a disabling illness; so have I since July 2, 2005 and it's now getting somewhat worse.
But to help you out with your debating ideas, I'd suggest to you that I think Obama is the least experienced, most ill-prepared American to run for POTUS in my lifetime (and since I'm 63 that's a relatively long time out here!).
If y'all want to debate it fine, just avoid personal attacks, please, as I tend to get really offensive to folks who attack me personally.

Joe, Joe, Joe..... yeah, we REALLY want this buffoon to be
second-in-command to the Big Red Launch Button . . . . .

re: #202 Nevergiveup

I mean my jewish brethern that support Obama.

That statement is an oxymoron. Or, maybe your bretheren are oxymorons (like mine).

re: #160 Son of the Black Dog

Putin will roll Barry over like a Russian "bride".

Obama makes Jimmy Carter look good by comparison.

re: #170 Cato the Elder

The deregulation which set up the subprime mortgage crises was carried out by Clinton's HUD Secretary, Andrew Cuomo. Cuamo is on Obama's shortlist for senior cabinet position.

Change?

re: #208 mama winger

Mama,your supposed to nurture and inspire us!
That scares me,but once again your absolutely right!

re: #19 Cato
Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Faithfully yours,

--Old Cato

Good luck with that. And don't hold your breath.

re: #211 ploome hineni

Most Lizards have. I wasn't pointing fingers. You asked why I used the word "respect."

re: #136 Ward Cleaver

That's a good point. But with the Demos, even votes on November 4 can be tossed!

We need to keep a microphone on this guy 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He does more conservatives every time he opens his mouth than they could ever do for themselves.

Maybe a Blair Witch Project type camera around his neck. We can not let a single byte go undocumented!

ACORN spokes person is on Dianne Rheem right now!
What a load of shit!

I would say leaving Israel to the wolves would count as an international crisis. But they'd sure go out with a violent bang.

Look, both campaigns have been briefed by W of what’s coming, and how soon. Soon after the election/inaugaration, Israel will strike Iran setting off a regional war in the ME, of which we will participate. Following the strike in Iran, it is highly probable that there will be multiple retalitory terrorist strikes here within the USA (Hezb’allah cells are here, and are in large numbers). The President may even have to declare some level of Martial Law in major cities.

That’s what I think Biden means when he says to the crowd of liberal, anti-war supporters that “we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

re: #220 crown_of_feathers

"Yet I too, who usually like to think of myself as calm and rational, also fear that it will be beginning of the end of American as we know her"

Funny you should say that. I was just talking this over with my wife last night, and I was telling her that I am beginning to become frightened about this. Something different is going on here, with the Obama phenomenon, that is unlike what we have seen before in this country, and it is starting to scare the crap out of me.

I'm not not saying that Obama is, but it is exactly what you see happening when people buy into the Anti-Christ.

re: #220 crown_of_feathers

Something different is going on here, with the Obama phenomenon, that is unlike what we have seen before in this country, and it is starting to scare the crap out of me.

....... a great delusion .......

re: #232 Ward Cleaver
If I was the Ukranians, Georgians, Lithunianians, Latvians, Eastonians, and any other folks that were once under the USSRs thumb I'd be very worried about Czar Putin I if obambi is elected.

Conspiracy Alert!

Watch for some kind of surprise out of Israel in the next few weeks. Their Doomsday Clock has been on 11:59:58 for some time, and with the real possibility of Obama, you know there are guys in the IDF about to push it to 59 seconds.

And remember you heard it here first...unless of course you didn't.

re: #216 smokefire

I know. but with some relatives and many friends in Israel, I am always alittle hesitant to cheer lead military action ( even when I know it is correct, necessary, and perhaps even unavoidable ) from either the safe sidelines of the USA or even as a civilian observer on the ground in Israel. I'd also be more confident that Israel will do the right thing if Sharon were still in power. Those who have come after him and who appear on the immediate horizon do not inspire confidence.

re: #226 right_on_target

In a way, I feel sorry for Joe Biden. He needs psychological help. Apparently, at one time he probably was a great dreamer who really wanted to do good and serve his country with all his passion. But one day, December 18, 1972, to be exact, it all changed for him. The death of his wife and daughter changed him. I believe he has never come to closure for that event. And in that, it appears that it affected his communication and social skills. He'll be honest one day and the next he'll toe the party line.

What does that say about those who keep voting him in?

Electing a Socialist as POTUS will be the generated crisis.

Whit an endorsement like that, I just can't wait or Obama to win.

/sarc

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, I know that the Supreme Court just ruled that the Second Amendment enunciates a personal right, but that could change.

Especially if one of the Supreme Court justices Obama appoints is lawyer Bernardine Dohrn.

I was thinking of this last night. I bet Ginsberg steps down pronto and Obama nominates one of his 'pals' right quick, while everyone is still basking in the glow.......

re: #103 Pawn of the Oppressor

Biden is right. Certain elements are going to look at him like Khrushchev did Kennedy, and figure "fuck it, we're free to do what we want, because this kid is an idiot." And they'll be right...

...He's saying "Pleeeeeeease don't hate us for acting like Republicans, because we might have to". I don't know why he's worried, since the media will be working extra hard to ensure that the Double Standard is working as it should:

Republican bombing anybody: Evil war-monger-er, gnarrrr!

Democrat bombing anybody: Enlightened Pope of Peace who Sadly has to use Tough Measures to Save People Just This Once.

BINGO. Pathetically true.

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it,"

- Joe the 6 Term Senator

What an arrogant, conceited, full-of-himself dork!

re: #170 Cato the Elder

But will he bring a breath of fresh air to the rich man's club that is currently our government? You betcha!

Hardly the basis for the intelligent discussion you asked for.Why would you believe that of a man who has spent more money in an attempt to gain the Presidency than anyone in history?

So is there a video?

OT but "very interesting"...

Under fire, U of Nebraska cancels speech by Obama friend William Ayers

I guess if you jump up-and-down hard enough...

I feel sorry for Biden because on a still day with no breeze, he looks like he is standing in a wind tunnel. Men, if you ever consider plastic surgery, look at old Joe, and think twice.

god save us all then

Brokaw answered my question.

I post on site called wowowow.com and they invited us to submit questions for Tom Brokaw - and he picked and "answered " mine.

From Bella Mia: Why do you think there have been so many press scandals like the Jason Blair scandal at The New York Times, and the Dan Rather scandal? Could you comment on this issue?

Tom Brokaw: Journalism is not physics. It’s subject to the same human frailties as any other endeavor.

LOL

Someone's probably already said it up-thread, but both campaigns are being briefed on national security issues. I have to wonder if Biden was alluding to something contained in classified information which he'd been given access to.

Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.

I suspect he means that he knows that sometime around after Obama is sworn in, Memphis or Minneapolis will be vaporized, and while Obama indulged in Very Serious Diplomacy to try to deal with the root causes of nuclear terrorism, we should be patient while Charlotte and Cleveland vanish as well.

Early voting started in Florida. Hope we don't see chad again, hanging or otherwise.

If he gets elected go ahead and let it happen then everyone can see what a paper asshole Nobama has.

re: #19 Cato the Elder

Just a quick question from an old poster, folks. (I have been hors de combat for some time now due to a lengthy bout with severe, disabling illness, so have contributed only very irregularly in the past few years.)

As background, I was a lifelong Democrat who got mugged by 9/11 and tricked (as I now see it) into backing Bush (I voted for him in 2004) in his futile policies of illegal wiretapping, unlawful detentions and torture, CIA black sites and extraordinary rendition, et cetera. I won't even begin to address the war in Iraq here. It may or may not turn out to be a good thing on balance, but the fact is we were lied to about the reasons for military intervention, and although that country may turn out to be a nifty forward base in any confrontation with Iran (a much more dangerous opponent), it's hard to see what other benefit the war has brought, unless strengthening Al Qaeda can be seen as a plus.

With 12 negative votes, I somehow don't think you'll find any support for your propaganda...zip, zero, nothing...

So, my question: Is it possible at this stage for a lizard to voice his support for Barack Obama? Can we have a rational discussion on the subject of McCain vs. Obama here, or will I be shouted down by a pack of lizards trying to vie with the frogs of Aristophanes?

Just askin', you know, because I wouldn't want to disturb the general chorus, upset the applecart, ruin the consensus or otherwise harm the tenor of LGF's ongoing discussion.

Also, if there's anyone else here who thinks an Obama presidency wouldn't be such a bad thing, I'd like to hear from you.

Faithfully yours,

--Old Cato

Who is this friend of Senator Government ........ it is starting to get out there ......anyone heard of this guy?

[Link: news.aol.com...]

OT re: Powell/Obama

Daily Kos loves on Colin Powell (Now)
Colin Powell Decimates McCain's Rationale

Here's a new montage I put together of Colin Powell's endorsement, along with video clips from the campaign trail supporting his key points. As you can see, Powell didn't just endorse Barack Obama -- he also systematically dismantled the entire rationale for John McCain's presidential campaign.

Whatever you think of Colin Powell, in the context of our national discourse, an endorsement of Barack Obama from a Republican military figure like Powell is a severe blow to McCain's smear campaign.

But called him Uncle Tom in 2004
Uncle Tom Powell Stumps for Massah Bush

Mr. Powell sir, you are a liar and an apologist for a crooked regime known as the George W. Bush administration. I charge you with these offenses based on the following:

All Colin Powell did was don the deaf/dumb/blind helmet and go on a 7 minute regurgitation of every LLL cliche ever conceived about Obama.
(Free of any questions or challenges by the host of coarse)

re: #170 Cato the Elder

Fresh air is never brought to Washington by cogs of the Chicago establishment.

re: #265 non-lib Nina