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Kurtz on Obama and the New Party

Politics | Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:48:09 pm PDT

Stanley Kurtz’s latest attempt to bring Barack Obama’s past to light: Something New Here.

During his first campaign for the Illinois state senate in 1995-96, Barack Obama was a member of, and was endorsed by, the far-left New Party. Obama’s New Party ties give the lie to his claim to be a post-partisan, post-ideological pragmatist. Particularly in Chicago, the New Party functioned as the electoral arm of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). So despite repeated attempts to distance himself from ACORN, Obama’s New Party ties raise disturbing questions about his links to those proudly militant leftists. The media’s near-total silence on this critical element of Obama’s past is deeply irresponsible.

While a small group of bloggers have productively explored Obama’s New Party ties, discussion has often turned on the New Party’s alleged socialism. Was the New Party actually established by the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)? Was the New Party’s platform effectively socialist in content? Although these debates are both interesting and important, we needn’t resolve them to conclude that the New Party was far to the left of the American mainstream. Whether formally socialist or not, the New Party and its ACORN backers favored policies of economic redistribution. As Obama would say, they wanted to spread the wealth around. Bracketing the socialism question and simply taking the New Party on its own terms is sufficient to raise serious questions about Obama’s political commitments — questions that cry out for attention from a responsible press.

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493 comments

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1 noshariaincanada  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:48:57pm

Obama = Marxist.

2 Iron Fist  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:49:50pm
questions that cry out for attention from a responsible press.


What's that? Is it something like the Mythical Moderate Muslim?

3 Killer Tomato  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:50:04pm
questions that cry out for attention from a responsible press.


Please see the title of the previous thread.

4 jeremy0114  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:50:11pm

I am afraid it all falls on deaf ears...

5 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:50:26pm

How dare Kurtz expose Obama when the Messiah's grandmother is ill. He should stop publishing until she gets better.

6 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:50:47pm

Obama = Dog chasing car

7 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:51:16pm

Move along, nothing to see here.

8 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:51:59pm

A commie by any other name is still a commie.

9 wright1  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:52:11pm

There is so much material for the McCain camp to sift through it is incredible. But they are not making hay. It is time to bring in the Rovian one to distill it and turn it into fine whiskey.

10 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:52:26pm

Obama's a socialist? Who knew?

11 noshariaincanada  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:53:09pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Obama's a socialist? Who knew?

Ayers knew.

12 RedWhiteAndJew  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:53:15pm
It is time to bring in the Rovian one to distill it and turn it into fine whiskey.

Johnny Walker Red, perhaps?

13 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:53:17pm

re: #9 wright1


There is so much material for the McCain camp to sift through it is incredible. But they are not making hay


Yeah, McCain has dropped the ball.

14 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:53:21pm

But what does this have to do with Joe the Plumber?! He's the one whose dumpster should be gone through, after all.

15 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:04pm

Preaching to the choir.
Those voting FOR Obama listen and read things like this with fingers tucked firmly in their ears and hands over their eyes

16 Irene NYC  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:06pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Obama's a socialist? Who knew?


And not just any old socialist, but a card-carrying socialist, Killgore.
;)

17 dwigg  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:08pm

Where's Chuckie Gibson? Chuckie, what about the Obama doctrine? Don't care? Thought so.

18 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:12pm

re: #9 wright1

There is so much material for the McCain camp to sift through it is incredible. But they are not making hay. It is time to bring in the Rovian one to distill it and turn it into fine whiskey.

You can't make fine whiskey in 2 weeks. Not even Rove is that sort of magician.

19 Killer Tomato  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:16pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

I heard he's got a book overdue at the library.

20 Irene NYC  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:42pm

re: #15 sattv4u2

Preaching to the choir.
Those voting FOR Obama listen and read things like this with fingers tucked firmly in their ears and hands over their eyes

satt, you're behind the times. They LOVE the fact that 0bami is a socialist.

21 blue falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:54:49pm

Anyone want to bet that if Obama wins various new appointees in government agencies will make Stanley Kurtz’s life difficult?

22 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:55:18pm

re: #19 Killer Tomato

I heard he's got a book overdue at the library.

worse,, I heard he doesn't seperate his plastics from his papers in his recycle bin

23 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:55:30pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

F

rom each according to his plumbing, to each according to his plumbing

- Joe Marx

24 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:55:44pm

re: #21 blue falcon

Anyone want to bet that if Obama wins various new appointees in government agencies will make Stanley Kurtz’s life difficult?

Sure. IRS Audits, FBI dumpster diving, you name it.

25 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:56:13pm

re: #20 Irene NYC

satt, you're behind the times. They LOVE the fact that 0bami is a socialist progressive.


/socialist is so 70's

26 wright1  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:56:24pm

McCain has 2 weeks to figure out how to get who BHO actually is to the nation. It is not as if he is without weapons. He has a plethora of material. Now more than ever, the name of the game is: communication.

Start yelling this from the rooftops!

27 willowone[deleted]  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:56:52pm
28 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:57:39pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

I agree- this is now just as much about the press as it is about 0bama. WHY are they not covering this? WHY are they AWOL?

While many 0bama supporters don't care if he's a socialist, most Americans do care if they're being bullshitted, and that's what the press is doing- bullshitting us.

29 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:57:50pm

re: #26 wright1

McCain has 2 weeks to figure out how to get who BHO actually is to the nation. It is not as if he is without weapons. He has a plethora of material. Now more than ever, the name of the game is: communication.

Start yelling this from the rooftops!

It's our job to do it. McCain will try to run a positive campaign and that is that. Sarah can do a little bit, but basically, it's the bloggers, Fox, and whatever is left of the MSM that hasn't completely sold out.

30 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:57:50pm

Well that was fast.

31 willowone  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:58:26pm

ouch

32 RedWhiteAndJew  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:58:27pm
McCain has 2 weeks to figure out how to get who BHO actually is to the nation. It is not as if he is without weapons. He has a plethora of material. Now more than ever, the name of the game is: communication.

Judging by ciaospirit's excellent videos, even the Obambot shy away from the world "socialist."

33 nikis-knight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:58:30pm

re: #20 Irene NYC

satt, you're behind the times. They LOVE the fact that 0bami is a socialist.

That video from last night was scary! All those people saying, "Yeah, I like 'cause of that socialism thing."

34 wright1  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:58:32pm

I would buy the time on radio and T.V. and run a 24 hour loop of Plugs declaring his love for McCain at the Dem debate...

35 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:58:54pm

re: #20 Irene NYC

satt, you're behind the times. They LOVE the fact that 0bami is a socialist.

That's what I have been saying. And on an earlier thread today I am told that I am a quitter.

No, I'm not quitting, but the reality that I am hearing, from a lot of people who I would have NEVER expected to hear such stuff from, I'm hearing the same thing over and over.

"Maybe we need a change, and socialism may not be so bad."

Yes, these are rational Americans saying this. We can't make believe it is not happening, and we cannot make believe that some miracle will save us.

If McCain won't attack, then for the next two weeks we need to. Because, if my little microcosm is any indication of what could happen with the voting block, Marx here we come.

36 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:04pm

Who was that at #27?

37 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:09pm

"This is not the New Party I knew."

/BHO

38 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:21pm
39 Killian Bundy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:23pm
Was the New Party actually established by the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)? Was the New Party’s platform effectively socialist in content?

Are those rhetorical questions? Obama - The Audacity of Socialism IBD Exclusive Series (in 20 parts).

I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.

From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

/seriously, what the [expletive deleted]'s the difference?

40 Killer Tomato  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:27pm

re: #26 wright1

Start yelling this from the rooftops!


That's about the only way we're going to get it out - maybe we need to hire Town Criers - the freakin press won't do their job.

41 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:35pm

The real tragedy is that the republican party nominated a candidate so weak that he couldn't beat a socialist with radical ties and no experience. That elderly and weak candidate then nominated a VP with no experience.
/I wonder why we're losing?

42 wright1  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:59:50pm

re: #29 Globular Cluster

It's our job to do it. McCain will try to run a positive campaign and that is that. Sarah can do a little bit, but basically, it's the bloggers, Fox, and whatever is left of the MSM that hasn't completely sold out.

If that is the case, it is like Militia fighting a National Army - I will take those odds but that is what it is...

43 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:00:30pm

re: #40 Killer Tomato

That's about the only way we're going to get it out - maybe we need to hire Town Criers - the freakin press won't do their job.

Criers are unionized. They will only cry about liberalism.

44 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:00:40pm

Good evening, Lizards. I just survived my first pilates class last hour.

45 willowone  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:00:43pm

re: #36 unrealizedviewpoint
twas I.

46 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:04pm
questions that cry out for attention from a responsible press

A cry in the dark, aimed at those blinded by the dark.

47 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:11pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The real tragedy is that the republican party nominated a candidate so weak that he couldn't beat a socialist with radical ties and no experience. That elderly and weak candidate then nominated a VP with no experience.
/I wonder why we're losing?

Stop that. You can't speak that sort of truth and get away with it. It will all be Ok.
/

48 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:21pm
49 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:36pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

/I wonder why we're losing?

MSM ,, ACORN Fraud,,, Obamas broken promise not to take private funding ,,,

50 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:40pm

I already have enough material to be a 2x4 to the knees of Libs who try to defend this poseur for the next 4 years. hell yes. Dude is going to look dumb trying to chump his way through it.

51 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:42pm

re: #32 RedWhiteAndJew

Judging by ciaospirit's excellent videos, even the Obambot shy away from the world "socialist."

I don't think most of them really know what the word means.

And they are fearful of agreeing to it only to find out it might be something bad.

/except the ones that are gleefully looking forward to it.

52 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:52pm
questions that cry out for attention from a responsible press.


Might as well ask water to flow uphill. If this were capable of happening, it would have happened already.

Its the eleventh hour, and the press not only refuses to vet Obama with responsible questions, most media outlets are actively carrying water for him.

53 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:01:57pm

more evidence

I found this on USENET

New Party member Barack Obama was uncontested for a State Senate seat from Chicago.

54 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:02:20pm

What's with all the kill-ing?

Killgore
Killer Tomato
Killian Bundy

55 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:02:36pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The real tragedy is that the republican party nominated a candidate so weak that he couldn't beat a socialist with radical ties and no experience. That elderly and weak candidate then nominated a VP with no experience.
/I wonder why we're losing?

Who says we're losing?
Oh yeah, the same media that's carrying water for Obama.

/Don't count unhatched chickens.

56 Kenneth  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:02:59pm

"That's not the New Party I used to know" -BHO

57 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:03:01pm

re: #45 willowone

twas I.

When i clicked on it, it said something like:
This user cannot be found... or something like that.
Well, I'm glad you were found.

58 willowone  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:03:19pm

did i give a bad site?

59 wright1  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:03:28pm

re: #44 hermeneutics

Good evening, Lizards. I just survived my first pilates class last hour.


Welcome and not to demean pilates but just be aware, people are getting cranky and are in a fight'in mood. Mostly because we know the race (election) is winnable if only...the McCain camp would start firing on all cylindars.

60 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:03:41pm

re: #53 uptight

more evidence

I found this on USENET

Save a copy. Its likely to disappear shortly.

61 Kenneth  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:03:50pm

re: #30 Mich-again

Who got zapped?

62 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:03:52pm
63 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:04:05pm

re: #53 uptight

This is an incredible source -- we need to publicize it.

64 sarabeara  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:04:07pm

Awww, "The New Party", it sounds so quaint. Just a bunch of fresh faced coeds in ratty sweaters with their eyes gazing towards the stars hoping to make a difference in the cold, cruel world...with corruption, dirty money, double speak, empty promises, race baiting, marxism and a few radical hippies who know not to cross the blue wire with that yellow one over there.

65 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:04:18pm

The New Party required the politicians it endorsed to sign a pledge of reciprocal support and involvement with the Party. So Barack's endorsement wasn't a casual, one-way endorsement, but rather a mutual endorsement between Party and candidate.

66 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:04:59pm

re: #49 sattv4u2

/I wonder why we're losing?

MSM ,, ACORN Fraud,,, Obamas broken promise not to take private funding ,,,

And as Killgore said, a candidate SO WEAK that he can't hit back. Have the Lizards been listening to what we have been talking about for months. Why is it we know more about the issues than is appears that McCain does?

Do any of you have that answer?

I can argue the right's points better than McCain or Palin ever can, at least from what we see them NOT DOING on the campaign.

Why hasn't McCain and company used all this knowledge to fight this contest?

67 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:05:27pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

You are also veering into Marvin the Paranoid Android territory.

68 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:05:57pm

The number now disappears from the deleted comment. Do not mention comment #...

69 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:06:00pm

re: #53 uptight

Keep in mind Obama won his US Senate seat when the worst Senator ever (who also happened to be an ultra-rich rich trust fund baby) self-immolated as a politician and as a person at the same time.

Obama got to run against a guy who decided not to run after being the one idiot on the wrong side of a 99-1 vote after 9/11. C'mon, Who was that guy and why did he flop like a fish for Obama.

70 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:06:06pm

More evidence

I found this on USENET

New Party members and supported candidates won 16 of 23 races....New Party member Barack Obama was uncontested for a State Senate seat from Chicago

the New Party was started by the DSA (Democratic SOCIALISTS of America) - part of the Socialist International.

Nice going there Comrade Barry

71 logboy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:06:17pm

If Obama is "The One" does that mean Neo is out of a job?

72 formercorpsman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:06:20pm

"Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve.
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines."

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

73 capitalistbaby  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:06:55pm

This is totally off topic, but hear me out.

I was just listening to Mark Levin and his guest was this lovely lady by the name of Michele Bachmann, a conservative congresswoman from Minnesota.

Apperently the socialist media is trying to wipe her out of existence, shocker I know.

If any of you lovely people have a few bucks to spare, consider donating to her cause at her website.

74 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:02pm

re: #64 sarabeara

Awww, "The New Party", it sounds so quaint. Just a bunch of fresh faced coeds in ratty sweaters with their eyes gazing towards the stars hoping to make a difference in the cold, cruel world...with corruption, dirty money, double speak, empty promises, race baiting, marxism and a few radical hippies who know not to cross the blue wire with that yellow one over there.

I don't like people like that. Too many arguments with them in college. Trying to pound sanity into them is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

75 Mich-again  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:23pm

re: #61 Kenneth

I was talking about comment 27. It was both the most recent comment and already deleted when I came to the thread.

76 sngnsgt  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:27pm

OT

Even Photobucket is in the tank for "The One". Front page ad links to slide show posted @ Daily KOS:

Phoyobucket

77 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:31pm

sorry for the double post

78 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:32pm

re: #67 stuiec

You are also veering into Marvin the Paranoid Android territory.

Bull, Killgore is just stating facts. You think McCain has fought hard? Do you think McCain has made the best use of his national debate time to get these points across?

79 logboy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:46pm

responsible press

An oxymoron, much like "friendly fire", or "honest dems".

80 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:47pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

Do you know where Rudy Giuliani is?

81 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:57pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The real tragedy is that the republican party nominated a candidate so weak that he couldn't beat a socialist with radical ties and no experience. That elderly and weak candidate then nominated a VP with no experience.
/I wonder why we're losing?

What is amazing is that McCain is within striking distance. We nominated a candidate who has to contend with 8 years of the Bush albatross, who is fighting a nation filled with liberal white guilt afraid to criticize a black candidate, an opponent with a $600M war chest who is the MSM in his pocket.

And still, it is close. Makes you wonder whether we actually chose, on the contrary, a good candidate.

82 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:07:57pm

What do you mean "we", paleface?

83 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:08:29pm
84 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:08:36pm

re: #20 Irene NYC


satt, you're behind the times. They LOVE the fact that 0bami is a socialist.


Yes they do love that. It is an ersatz religion, this fawning after 0bama, and the vain hope he spreads that government largely and directly applied, will solve all problems.

And who now are the bitter clingers?

These "followers" will be very soon bitter if 0bama loses; or they will be soon bitter when he cannot deliver on their misplaced and jacked-up hopes.

*******

I do not like what I see happening in my country now.

85 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:08:55pm

re: #78 Walter L. Newton

Bull, Killgore is just stating facts. You think McCain has fought hard? Do you think McCain has made the best use of his national debate time to get these points across?


Its not a "fact" that McCain couldn't beat Obama, nor is it a foregone conclusion.

86 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:08:58pm

re: #71 logboy

If Obama is "The One" does that mean Neo is out of a job?

No... just a fight to the death in the final scene.

There can be only one... One.

87 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:08:58pm

re: #63 hermeneutics

This is an incredible source -- we need to publicize it.

charles?

88 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:09:07pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

The real tragedy is that the republican party nominated a candidate so weak that he couldn't beat a socialist with radical ties and no experience. That elderly and weak candidate then nominated a VP with no experience.
/I wonder why we're losing?

Yes, and what is even more pathetic is the Dems nominated a sweet sounding but empty suit. An empty suit that is barely wining a race that, by all accounts, he should be winning on a huge margin. How low is Bush's approval rating? How badly tarnished is the Republican "brandname"? Yet, here is our savior Obama, barely beating out one of the worst run campaigns in memory. (Well, I remember Dole pretty good). If it was not for Sarah Palin entering this race, it may have been slaughter.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot remember this many "undecided" voters this late in the game. I think many people will vote while holding their noses this time around. I am one of them. I will vote for McCain, but as a vote against Obama, not because my very own Senator has inspired me so. Obama will get many pumped up and excited supporters voting, but the "excitement level" takes a fall the closer to the center you get. Neither one of these guys are good candidates. 300 million people and we get these two guys?

89 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:09:19pm

Sad, sad ....... the dems knew this all along ........ Pelosi, et al. they are all socialists ...... they just paint it as progressive sounds so warm and fuzzy ......I pray McCain wins this election .... and then this country needs a f*cking time out ....... this campaigning for two years has been an absolute raping of the country .......

"Remember: A socialist is just a Communist that hasn't confiscated the guns yet."

90 Kenneth  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:09:21pm

re: #75 Mich-again

yes, I was just wondering who got smacked for what. of course, you can't go telling me, so we'll just have to let it drift by.

Sadly, I've never been deleted. I guess I just don't try hard enough!

g'night all

91 Stonemason  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:09:22pm

re: #81 Globular Cluster


we actually chose

I live in PA, can't be part of that WE

92 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:09:38pm

Good night, dear Lizards.

93 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:10:31pm

re: #80 stuiec

Do you know where Rudy Giuliani is?

What? First off, I don't understand your question and second, he doesn't matter anymore to any of this anyway (I get paid for using "any" as m'any' times as I can. Did it again).

94 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:10:32pm

re: #83 taxfreekiller

I'm with you

just got back from a Scout meeting

95 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:11:07pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

Why hasn't McCain and company used all this knowledge to fight this contest?


1) He (John McCain) never believed what he was hearing about the guy Obama, still doesn't believe it really. Maybe never will.
2) 1) He never conceived he needed go this negative. He really believed he could run an honorable, positive campaign. He's awakening to the reality maybe too late.

96 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:11:20pm

O/T, but great C-SPAN interview with Mark Levin here. It's about an hour long, but well worth watching! If this was already posted, sorry.

97 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:11:26pm

re: #44 hermeneutics

Good evening, Lizards. I just survived my first pilates class last hour.

What's it like?

98 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:11:56pm

re: #91 Stonemason

I live in PA, can't be part of that WE

The Republicans chose McCain. That's "we".

99 Kenneth  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:12:10pm

re: #89 JacksonTn

The difference between Socialism and Communism is the Socialists lack enthusiasm.

100 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:12:11pm

re: #2 Iron Fist

What's that? Is it something like the Mythical Moderate Muslim?

I Keel you for that, infidel!

101 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:12:16pm

re: #78 Walter L. Newton

Bull, Killgore is just stating facts. You think McCain has fought hard? Do you think McCain has made the best use of his national debate time to get these points across?

I do not buy the Democrat "Palin has no experience" talking point.

Fact: Palin has more relevant experience than Obama.

If I see a fact followed by a false statement, I assume someone is trying to put something past me.

102 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:12:38pm

re: #44 hermeneutics

Good evening, Lizards. I just survived my first pilates class last hour.

Did you go to Dairy Queen to celebrate? I think that is one of the flaws in my exercise regiment....

103 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:12:45pm

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

It's easy to be a backseat driver but there are so many things McCain should be doing and that he should have done that it's just become ridiculous. To trace the problem back even further; there were no good choices out of the Republican pack. Rudy had too many personal scandals, Mitt would lose to religious bigotry. After that we are left with assorted fruits and nuts like Huckabee and Ron Paul. The Dems had Obama, Hillary, and Richardson. All were gimmicks but viable candidates. I'll exclude edwards, but he was viable before his penis intervened.

Who are the Republicans going to give us next time? Palin and Bobby Jindal? We're fucked for the foreseeable future unless "conservatives" get their shit together. This is inexcusable.

104 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:13:00pm

re: #80 stuiec

Do you know where Rudy Giuliani is?

I had him locked in my closet.

Did he get loose?

105 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:13:01pm

Wow! Even if McCain did talk about this, what makes anyone think the press would replay it? All he can do is run ads if he wants to American people to see this, and how do we know the McCain team wont?

If you honestly think the msm would air comments frm McCain about 0bama's ties to this party, there is a really good article on the previous thread you should re-read.

106 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:13:38pm

re: #5 Globular Cluster

How dare Kurtz expose Obama when the Messiah's grandmother is ill. He should stop publishing until she gets better.

You mean the Grandmother who said she was there when Obama was born at a hospital in Kenya? Or the one who lives in Hawaii?

107 odinga  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:13:58pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

A commie by any other name is still a commie.

Ya kno you can put Lipstick on a Commie, and uh, it, it, it's still a commie.

108 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:13:58pm

re: #85 looking closely

Its not a "fact" that McCain couldn't beat Obama, nor is it a foregone conclusion.

He hasn't up to this point! And you can go back over thread after thread here on LGF and see Lizard after Lizard state that fact. Look at every debate thread. Look at most of the right web sites and publications and journalist.

He isn't wining yet. I hope he does. I'm working for it and I've voted for him. I'm not giving up, but I'm not starry-eye to the facts and realities up to this point.

Sorry.

109 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:14:20pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

It's easy to be a backseat driver but there are so many things McCain should be doing and that he should have done that it's just become ridiculous. To trace the problem back even further; there were no good choices out of the Republican pack. Rudy had too many personal scandals, Mitt would lose to religious bigotry. After that we are left with assorted fruits and nuts like Huckabee and Ron Paul. The Dems had Obama, Hillary, and Richardson. All were gimmicks but viable candidates. I'll exclude edwards, but he was viable before his penis intervened.

Who are the Republicans going to give us next time? Palin and Bobby Jindal? We're fucked for the foreseeable future unless "conservatives" get their shit together. This is inexcusable.

Michael Steele. Drill baby drill. A shoe-in if there ever was one.

110 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:14:29pm

re: #97 Badge of Kaffir Pride

What's it like?

Pilates? Isn't that where you wash your hands of the Messiah?

I could used a class like that.

111 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:14:37pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

We have Duncan Hunter.

112 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:14:39pm

re: #80 stuiec

Do you know where Rudy Giuliani is?

He is on the campaign bus with Cindy McCain .....

113 WrathofG-d  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:14:44pm

PEACE AT LAST

Egypt (our moderateTM friend who, we the U.S., give billions a year) is working double-time to get the rival "Palestinian" "factions" to work together.

A this is wonderful....right? NOPE.

For the last 5+ years the U.S. has been training, and arming the Fatah "faction" (ie: Terrorist Group) with the belief that they would take on the Islamist Hamas, if Hamas were to challenge them. So now, Egypt (most likely with the U.S.'s blessing) is working on ensuring that all that training and weaponry (including at least one APV) gets into the hands of Hamas!

ahhhh....got to love that "big picture super-duper smarty pants" plan of Olmert, Bush, Rice, and Sharon!

Think I'm simply a cynic? Read this:

Egypt on Monday called on rival Palestinian factions to form a unity government and restructure their security forces in a bid to end hostilities that have undermined efforts to reach a statehood deal.

Cairo presented a four-page proposal, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters, to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction and Islamist Hamas, outlining steps the groups should take to end their power struggle.

Egypt also said Abbas should continue peace talks with Israel but that any deal needs approval from a national referendum or the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), which it said should be restructured to include all factions, including Hamas, which is sworn to Israel's destruction.

114 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:06pm

re: #15 sattv4u2

Preaching to the choir.
Those voting FOR Obama listen and read things like this with fingers tucked firmly in their ears and hands over their eyes

And their proverbial heads up their asses.

115 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:08pm

re: #106 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

You mean the Grandmother who said she was there when Obama was born at a hospital in Kenya? Or the one who lives in Hawaii?

I mean the racist grandmother who is afraid of black men.

116 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:15pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

It's easy to be a backseat driver but there are so many things McCain should be doing and that he should have done that it's just become ridiculous. To trace the problem back even further; there were no good choices out of the Republican pack. Rudy had too many personal scandals, Mitt would lose to religious bigotry. After that we are left with assorted fruits and nuts like Huckabee and Ron Paul. The Dems had Obama, Hillary, and Richardson. All were gimmicks but viable candidates. I'll exclude edwards, but he was viable before his penis intervened.

Who are the Republicans going to give us next time? Palin and Bobby Jindal? We're fucked for the foreseeable future unless "conservatives" get their shit together. This is inexcusable.

You and I are alone in this, at least here.

117 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:32pm

I don't think Obama's past matters as much as what he wants to do to us now.

After reading the broadsides against Obama's economic plans at WSJ today, the only conclusion I can come to is that he wants to deliberately crash the system in order to replace it with whatever it is he has in mind.

McCain is the one who needs to buy half an hour of airtime, and he needs to turn it over to an economist who can explain the connections between Soros, the Dems, Alinsky, Obama, the mortgage crisis, and Obama's crackerjack "plans".

That little so-and-so doesn't give a rat's ass about us. He wants to crash the national car. Period.

118 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:33pm

re: #85 looking closely

Its not a "fact" that McCain couldn't beat Obama, nor is it a foregone conclusion.


It's not that he couldn't it's that he won't. he lacks the will, vision and drive. I'm not pimping for Obama or encouraging people not to vote (as I am) but do you really want an unwilling, incapable candidate dragged into office against his will?

119 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:36pm

re: #104 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

I had him locked in my closet.

Did he get loose?


I saw that episode of "Twilight Zone"!

120 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:40pm

Good night, Goddess.

At the bottom of the Uptight's article, 53 above, is a listing of other articles in the same journal -- the Progressive Populist.

It reads like a who's who of the hard left: Jesse Jackson (Push), Molly Ivins, Jim Wallis (the "evangelical" turncoat), Ted Rall (editorial cartoonist), Michael Moore (film propagandist), Micheal Tomasky and good ol' Eugene McCarthy.

These was Obama's cohort, at least part of it.

121 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:15:41pm

re: #95 unrealizedviewpoint

1) He (John McCain) never believed what he was hearing about the guy Obama, still doesn't believe it really. Maybe never will.
2) 1) He never conceived he needed go this negative. He really believed he could run an honorable, positive campaign. He's awakening to the reality maybe too late.

3) (and its related to 2). Nobody took Obama seriously until WAY late in the campaign. That includes Hillary Clinton. He was underestimated.

122 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:16:06pm
"I'm sorry I had to fight in the middle of your Black Panther party."
--Forrest Gump
123 Stonemason  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:16:06pm

re: #98 Globular Cluster

Sorry, can't run with ya there. The media picked both of the candidates, that is how we ended up with two liberals, one just much more so than the other.

I will respect and honor with the title "my President" which ever of those two win, but I will not say I picked Obama if he wins, much the same as I will vote for McCain, but I did not have ANY say in picking him to be our nominee.

124 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:16:21pm

re: #111 Sharmuta

We have Duncan Hunter.

Duncan was my man, but damn, didn't his wheels fall off quickly? By the time we gto to vote in Texas...

125 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:16:30pm

re: #97 Badge of Kaffir Pride

What's it like?

Torture. I thought I was in good shape but ... well, I just took two aspirins. Lots of balance and stretching which oddly makes muscles strong.

126 Stonemason  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:16:58pm

re: #101 OldLineTexan

An by the by, Palin has more experience than Truman's first VP...

127 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:17:07pm

re: #110 OldLineTexan

Pilates? Isn't that where you wash your hands of the Messiah?

I could used a class like that.

Good one!

128 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:17:14pm

re: #111 Sharmuta

Was he the one grilling squirrels in the popcorn popper or was that Huckabee?

129 logboy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:17:28pm

re: #73 capitalistbaby
This is totally off topic, but hear me out.

I was just listening to Mark Levin and his guest was this lovely lady by the name of Michele Bachmann, a conservative congresswoman from Minnesota.

Apperently the socialist media is trying to wipe her out of existence, shocker I know.

If any of you lovely people have a few bucks to spare, consider donating to her cause at her website.

As long as we're on the topic of Minnesota's congressional race, my old Platoon SGT from Iraq is running for Minnesota's 2nd Congressional District. Unfortunately its under the Dem's ticket. Apparently he fell of the wagon somewhere.

130 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:17:33pm

re: #106 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

You mean the Grandmother who said she was there when Obama was born at a hospital in Kenya? Or the one who lives in Hawaii?

The latter.

131 WrathofG-d  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:18:09pm

re: #127 hermeneutics

I thought Pilates was small, easy to swallow coffees.

132 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:18:27pm

re: #105 Sharmuta

Wow! Even if McCain did talk about this, what makes anyone think the press would replay it? All he can do is run ads if he wants to American people to see this, and how do we know the McCain team wont?

If you honestly think the msm would air comments frm McCain about 0bama's ties to this party, there is a really good article on the previous thread you should re-read.

McCain had THREE oppertunities to get this info out at debates. Every politician goes off-question and McCain should have done that. And I hear him on this talk show and that talk show, even the conservatives ones, and he is still "Mr. Nice Guy."

I have heard talk show host give him SO MANY OPENINGS to state the real facts, and McCain continues to try to act like a nice old grandfather.

Yes, the MSM has made it hard, but McCain hasn't even tried.

It ain't working

133 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:18:31pm

WTF? There will be time to bitch about McCain's campaign later. Let's get the word out about 0bama and how the press isn't doing it's job. That's the issue here.

134 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:18:46pm

re: #131 WrathofG-d

I thought Pilates was small, easy to swallow coffees.

:)

135 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:19:14pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Was he the one grilling squirrels in the popcorn popper or was that Huckabee?

That was Huckabee. Hunter was the one who had the guest post here at LGF and the only real conservative, imo.

136 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:19:20pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

It's not that he couldn't it's that he won't. he lacks the will, vision and drive. I'm not pimping for Obama or encouraging people not to vote (as I am) but do you really want an unwilling, incapable candidate dragged into office against his will?

Yes ......

137 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:19:20pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

It's not that he couldn't it's that he won't. he lacks the will, vision and drive. I'm not pimping for Obama or encouraging people not to vote (as I am) but do you really want an unwilling, incapable candidate dragged into office against his will?

He's willing. He's had the odds stacked against him from day one and he's still in the race. He's run a lame campaign, agreed, but not worse than many other campaigns in previous years. He his fighting against impossible odds: outspent 6:1, MSM in the tank, first black candidate. Anyone would be struggling. You think Bush could take Obama? No way.

138 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:20:00pm

re: #69 Mich-again

Keep in mind Obama won his US Senate seat when the worst Senator ever (who also happened to be an ultra-rich rich trust fund baby) self-immolated as a politician and as a person at the same time.

Obama got to run against a guy who decided not to run after being the one idiot on the wrong side of a 99-1 vote after 9/11. C'mon, Who was that guy and why did he flop like a fish for Obama.

That would be former republican Senator Peter Fitzgerald, who chose not to run for re-election.

139 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:20:01pm

We've got to push mcCain over the finish line since he seems unwilling to crawl over it himself.

140 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:20:18pm

WOOT! THERE'S A NEW PARTY? WHERE?

Wait, I haven't read the thread yet. Let me go back.

/damn

141 The Shadow Do  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:02pm

Because a big piece of America doesn't know what Socialism means, Republicans beginning with McCain need to explain it, in very few words, at the start of every public presentation.

Obama provided the sound bite, "spread the wealth".

Grab that by the belt buckle and don't let go.

We can win this thing.

142 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:29pm
143 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:33pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Was he the one grilling squirrels in the popcorn popper or was that Huckabee?

Well, my, someone wasn't paying attention. I thought you were all over Huckabee.

144 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:34pm

re: #133 Sharmuta

WTF? There will be time to bitch about McCain's campaign later. Let's get the word out about 0bama and how the press isn't doing it's job. That's the issue here.

Check.

145 Killer Tomato  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:45pm

re: #139 hermeneutics

We've got to push mcCain over the finish line since he seems unwilling to crawl over it himself.

Yeah - half of us need to get in front and pull and the other half in back and push.
We really have no choice.

146 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:51pm

I have seldom seen a bigger fool than this 0bama person;
anyone with sense would run like mad from the nonsense that he promises and that others promise for him; he is a fool to think he can deliver on it.

147 yesandno  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:57pm

No such thing as a little bit socialist....

like being only a little bit pregnant.....

148 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:21:59pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

The interviews are my favorite part.

149 Moe Katz  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:05pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

McCain had THREE oppertunities to get this info out at debates. Every politician goes off-question and McCain should have done that. And I hear him on this talk show and that talk show, even the conservatives ones, and he is still "Mr. Nice Guy."

I have heard talk show host give him SO MANY OPENINGS to state the real facts, and McCain continues to try to act like a nice old grandfather.

Yes, the MSM has made it hard, but McCain hasn't even tried.

It ain't working

Well, thanks to the liberal media, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. When he's on the attack, it's his "negative campaign" that's talked about. And the content of the attacks gets minimal attention.

150 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:24pm

re: #140 Intrepid

WOOT! THERE'S A NEW PARTY? WHERE?

Wait, I haven't read the thread yet. Let me go back.

/damn

In Obama's America, the Party always finds you.
(h/t Yakov Smirnoff)

151 Stonemason  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:26pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

much better than the alternative. (bad reason I know, but all I have) Having seen McCain in person, I think he does want the job, and he will perform to the best of HIS abilities, not to the latest poll numbers or KOS post.

152 sngnsgt  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:28pm
153 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:36pm

re: #133 Sharmuta

WTF? There will be time to bitch about McCain's campaign later. Let's get the word out about 0bama and how the press isn't doing it's job. That's the issue here.

If the candidate doesn't even look like he wants to win, all our pimping for him will only look like just that, pimping.

I don't think I (or others here) who are fed up with the Repub party (and McCain) are trying to help Obama win, but we do have a real clear idea why, up to this point, our candidate ISN'T winning.

154 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:38pm

re: #121 looking closely

3) (and its related to 2). Nobody took Obama seriously until WAY late in the campaign. That includes Hillary Clinton. He was underestimated.

Especially Hillary. She was the closest and should have seen it coming. We all, the entire country, underestimated this fellow Obama.

nite-nite all.

155 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:40pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

He hasn't [been winning] up to this point!


How do you know? The election hasn't happened yet.


And you can go back over thread after thread here on LGF and see Lizard after Lizard state that fact. Look at every debate thread. Look at most of the right web sites and publications and journalist.

With due respect, there are plenty of posters here who don't think Obama has beaten McCain. Personally, I thought McCain 'beat' Obama in the first and last debates, with the final (and most important) one being a decisive McCain win.

I agree that McCain wasn't nearly as strong as he could have been, but that doesn't mean he's going to lose.

He isn't wining [sic] yet. I hope he does. I'm working for it and I've voted for him. I'm not giving up, but I'm not starry-eye to the facts and realities up to this point.


Someone is "whining", that's for sure.
Again, the election hasn't happened yet. There is good reason to think that polling is underestimating McCain's strength *AND* that media bias is (incorrectly) creating the impression that an Obama victory is inevitable.
Don't buy into this.
I say there is plenty of reason to mistrust the polls this time around (ijn particular more so than in the last Kerry-Bush race), AND that McCain is gaining ground now.

156 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:22:52pm

re: #131 WrathofG-d

I thought Pilates was small, easy to swallow coffees.

The Pilates suck! I don't know why Pittsburgh supports them!

/

157 SpartanWoman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:23:33pm

Any truth to the rumors that Murtha is behind in the polls?

158 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:23:35pm

Got another letter from the McCain campaign requesting money for the Compliance Fund.

159 Stonemason  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:23:45pm

re: #138 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Wasn't the media involved in exposing a scandal of some sort...sheesh, off to Google...

160 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:23:47pm

re: #146 Ojoe

I have seldom seen a bigger fool than this 0bama person;
anyone with sense would run like mad from the nonsense that he promises and that others promise for him; he is a fool to think he can deliver on it.

Yes, but here we are, worried and complaining, not sure of what steps to take next. I've done my wee part -- wrote a couple editorials under other people's names -- but that's not enough. We need some sort of coordinated effort, even at this last hour, and to be honest, I have no idea what needs to be done.

161 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:23:48pm

re: #137 Globular Cluster

I agree. I think Obama will be a disaster as President, but you have to marvel at the campaign he has run. I do not think his methods are all for the better though. His grass roots efforts are good, but this money is out of hand. We are talking almost $1 Billion (with a B) in fund raising. This alters the Presidential elections in the future for certain. Next time around, it will cost each candidate that much.....that is crazy......who is sending all this money? It is not just little old ladies and college students sending in $25 each. There are some serious donors in that mix.....and, I wonder, what exactly they are asking for in return?

162 Boy Hits Car  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:23:48pm

Man, I don't want to sound like an Obama supporter, but all these "uncoverings" or "connections" seem to parallel what the left did to Bush. Ie. Neocon, oil buddies, Haliburton, religious zealot, ignore the poor...

Turn it around and you have, New party, socialism, marxists, steal from the rich...

Just wondering if it's all a little too similar to the way Bush was unfairly criticized which turned into BDS, over-the-top hate and irrational conspiracy theories. Maybe we are all overreacting. Just thinking outloud.

163 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:01pm

re: #156 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

The Pilates suck! I don't know why Pittsburgh supports them!

/

I think SothWest Airlines treats their Pilates the best

164 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:17pm

re: #156 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

You mean Pittsbulgh, of course.

165 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:26pm

re: #154 unrealizedviewpoint

Especially Hillary. She was the closest and should have seen it coming. We all, the entire country, underestimated this fellow Obama.

nite-nite all.

No ..... underestimated the forces behind him ......they have been patient waiting for the perfect vehicle ......

166 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:34pm

I've been listening to Liberal Fascism at work. That combined with my reading of The Conservative History of the American Left is actually making me more than a little nervous. Obama is couching things in terms that mirror those of FDR and Wilson. (And more than a little bit of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.)

In fact his corp of volunteers concept is right out of FDR and Wilson.

The sad part is that the left has such a short memory, they probably don't even remember that they've tried all of this before.

The nice part is that if we survive the next four years (eight at worst) it will be years before a Dem ever wins any position of authority again.

167 Macker  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:35pm

re: #72 formercorpsman

"Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve.
If the Army and the Navy Air Force
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines."

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The Navy knows better. this, from a former Squid who trusts the Marines to go kick ass!

168 Purple Prose  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:36pm

Obama in the Executive Office and liberal Democratic sycophants in Congress. No problem here. Move along.

Man, when we all wake up from this Electric Koolaid Acid Trip, the Democrats will be set back 100 years.

We'll see a few of Biden's predicted tests of Obama: an Iran with the bomb and a few major terrorist attacks.

Goodbye to the Democratic dreams of unlimited power.

We will survive.

169 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:52pm

re: #141 The Shadow Do

Because a big piece of America doesn't know what Socialism means, Republicans beginning with McCain need to explain it, in very few words, at the start of every public presentation.

Obama provided the sound bite, "spread the wealth".

Grab that by the belt buckle and don't let go.

We can win this thing.

I agree! Few have any idea what it means, few have any idea what it would do to our economy, few have any idea that class warfare is fueled by elitists. They don't get it. The schools haven't helped- we need a massive correction in civics education as well as economics. If the American public had any idea what socialism has wreaked on Europe, we would want no part of it. The problem is they have no clue.

170 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:24:58pm

re: #163 sattv4u2

Unlike their co-pilates.

171 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:25:04pm

re: #157 SpartanWoman

Any truth to the rumors that Murtha is behind in the polls?

That would be the best thing I have heard all day....I hate that guy.

172 OldLineTexan  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:25:22pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

BODY PARTS MADE OUT OF BREAD

Imagine that and some weed.

Whoa.

173 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:25:28pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

McCain had THREE oppertunities to get this info out at debates. Every politician goes off-question and McCain should have done that. And I hear him on this talk show and that talk show, even the conservatives ones, and he is still "Mr. Nice Guy."

I have heard talk show host give him SO MANY OPENINGS to state the real facts, and McCain continues to try to act like a nice old grandfather.

Yes, the MSM has made it hard, but McCain hasn't even tried.

It ain't working


Most people have never heard of the "New Party" . Without the appropriate background, putting that out in a "sound bite" format debate isn't going to be all that helpful.

Then Obama would simply issue a flat denial, the way he bald-faced lied about his connection to Ayers in the third debate.

Then the media wouldn't follow up, just as they have NOT done so with Ayers.

This wouldn't have been a winning debate strategy.

174 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:25:31pm

re: #139 hermeneutics

We've got to push mcCain over the finish line since he seems unwilling to crawl over it himself.

Actually, Rush said it best- DRAG McCain over the finish line!

175 solomonpanting  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:25:44pm

re: #162 Boy Hits Car

There is no parallel.
The attacks on Bush were BS.
The attacks on Obama carry weight.

176 SpartanWoman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:25:56pm

re: #171 Desert Dog

That would be the best thing I have heard all day....I hate that guy.

I read 47-44 for Russell which could bode ill for Bama

177 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:26:08pm

re: #158 Gus 802

Got another letter from the McCain campaign requesting money for the Compliance Fund.

I have mine in hand. Looks as if they're running low on supplies. mine came on yellow lined legal paper

178 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:26:13pm

re: #78 Walter L. Newton

Bull, Killgore is just stating facts. You think McCain has fought hard? Do you think McCain has made the best use of his national debate time to get these points across?

I think McCain should have foregone public financing when Obama did -- unilateral disarmament is always foolish. I think McCain should have bowed out of the primaries after the immigration reform debacle -- but he stayed in and toughed it out. I think Rudy Giuliani should have contested Iowa and New Hampshire, I think Fred Thompson should not have sat like a bump on a log, I think Mitt Romney should have stayed in for a while longer, I think Mike Huckabee is someone I'd hate to vote for, I think Duncan Hunter would have been a great nominee, and I think Ron Paul ought to be committed to a nuthouse -- none of them ran good campaigns, and four of them split the conservative vote. In the end, we got the candidate that we got.

McCain avoided in the first two debates bringing up things that were well known to people who'd observed Obama -- things that Hillary brought up in the primary debates. In the third debate, McCain put out the truth about Obama and lured him into lying in his denials. That ordinarily would have been a huge blow to Obama.

But if you are hinging the entire campaign on the debates, you're clinging to an outdated model. With the current media environment, the fact that Obama remained unflustered while vamping and that Biden lied and invented with forcefulness was sufficient to overwhelm anything McCain or Palin said. It used to be that the blatant errors and embarrassing revelations of both candidates in a debate would be exposed afterward in the press and television news, but nowadays the press and television news can't be bothered with telling the truth about their preferred candidate.

So yes, I think McCain did well in the third debate, and the remarkable thing in this election season is not that McCain is behind but that all of the advantages that Barack Obama can call on haven't enabled him to pull away. I don't see that McCain-Palin have yet lost this election, and while I would not be shocked if they did lose, I am optimistic that they will in fact win. Focus on that possibility and not on the false inevitability of defeat.

179 Killer Tomato  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:26:15pm

re: #162 Boy Hits Car

Maybe we are all overreacting.

Nope.

180 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:27:15pm

re: #149 Moe Katz

Well, thanks to the liberal media, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. When he's on the attack, it's his "negative campaign" that's talked about. And the content of the attacks gets minimal attention.

Negative bull. The truth is not negative campaigning. And McCain should shout that out everytime he is accused of it.

Look, there are time tested techniques in debating, framing a point, arguing a point, speaking to crowds, you know, the whole ball of wax.

McCain is not doing this, in any sort of way.

According to what I am reading here, the MSM holds so much power that we may as well give it up.

Not me.

181 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:28:33pm

re: #140 Intrepid

WOOT! THERE'S A NEW PARTY? WHERE?

They split up after the drummer died.

Now they are the New Original Party

182 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:28:41pm

re: #176 SpartanWoman

It would serve that old fart right.....he basically called his constituents a bunch of knuckle-dragging hillbilly racists.....

183 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:28:56pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

He hasn't up to this point! And you can go back over thread after thread here on LGF and see Lizard after Lizard state that fact. Look at every debate thread. Look at most of the right web sites and publications and journalist.

He isn't wining yet. I hope he does. I'm working for it and I've voted for him. I'm not giving up, but I'm not starry-eye to the facts and realities up to this point.

Sorry.

Don't despair Walter. The fact that McCain can make such a poor showing and Obama continues to fail to jump that far ahead shows that there is more going on than the polls and the press know, or are willing to say. Even Gallup says that right now, Obama will barely win. If something happens in the next couple weeks that will change. There is still a large group claiming to be undecided, Though, certain commentators state that these people are just Dems to afraid to say they are, I think there may be a large group that are truly undecided. Many people I have talked to aren't crazy about McCain, but are turned off by the fawning obsequiousness shown by the press to Obama.

184 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:28:58pm

re: #93 Walter L. Newton

What? First off, I don't understand your question and second, he doesn't matter anymore to any of this anyway (I get paid for using "any" as m'any' times as I can. Did it again).

Rudy Giuliani was today campaigning with Cindy McCain. You didn't know that because the media won't cover America's Mayor when he's acting treasonously against the election of The One.

There's a lot of what McCain, Palin and many other Republican campaigners ARE doing that you think they're NOT doing, because the MSM runs a cloaking campaign to keep you from seeing it.

185 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:03pm

re: #159 Stonemason

Wasn't the media involved in exposing a scandal of some sort...sheesh, off to Google...

That was Jack Ryan, who a lot of people confused with Jim Ryan the sec of state, who was tied to the currently incarcerated former Gov George Ryan's corruption scandal. Confusing, huh?

186 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:13pm

re: #157 SpartanWoman

Did you hear something?

187 WrathofG-d  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:25pm

U.S. supporting Hamas? No, anyone? no? NO? oh ok....i'm out.

188 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:27pm

re: #162 Boy Hits Car

Man, I don't want to sound like an Obama supporter, but all these "uncoverings" or "connections" seem to parallel what the left did to Bush. Ie. Neocon, oil buddies, Haliburton, religious zealot, ignore the poor...

Turn it around and you have, New party, socialism, marxists, steal from the rich...

Just wondering if it's all a little too similar to the way Bush was unfairly criticized which turned into BDS, over-the-top hate and irrational conspiracy theories. Maybe we are all overreacting. Just thinking outloud.

I've thought the same thing, but in this case, there are real facts to back up the case against Obama. Everything the left asserted about Bush was unsubstantiated innuendo. The MSM had every opportunity to investigate Bushitler, and they hated him, and they found nothing. Other than Dan Rather and some national guard memos.

Believe me, I'm on the lookout for * Derangement Syndrome, and this is isn't it.

189 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:29pm

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

I don't think two weeks before the election is the time to sit down and hash out internal party issues. It's not that I think you and Killgore don't have a point, it's the timing, because a solution isn't going to be found in time to do a damn thing in two weeks. We have two years to work on that for the mid-terms and four for the next presidential election. Seriously- right now is not the time.

190 yesandno  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:31pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

BODY PARTS MADE OUT OF BREAD


Any buns?

191 Moe Katz  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:34pm

re: #180 Walter L. Newton

Negative bull. The truth is not negative campaigning. And McCain should shout that out everytime he is accused of it.

Look, there are time tested techniques in debating, framing a point, arguing a point, speaking to crowds, you know, the whole ball of wax.

McCain is not doing this, in any sort of way.

According to what I am reading here, the MSM holds so much power that we may as well give it up.

Not me.

I'm no capitulation primate, but I haven't seen such a Teflon candidate in any political arena in decades.

192 SpartanWoman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:29:56pm

re: #186 x-wing

Did you hear something?

I read somewhere that Russell was pulling ahead

193 SpartanWoman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:30:29pm

re: #190 yesandno

Any buns?

Better than bread made out of body parts

194 mikalm  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:31:22pm

re: #152 sngnsgt

The Obamessiah

Barry O as St. Martin de Porres -- what a sick joke.

195 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:32:29pm

re: #189 Sharmuta

I don't think two weeks before the election is the time to sit down and hash out internal party issues. It's not that I think you and Killgore don't have a point, it's the timing, because a solution isn't going to be found in time to do a damn thing in two weeks. We have two years to work on that for the mid-terms and four for the next presidential election. Seriously- right now is not the time.

Like Mark Levin said- Just get McCain elected, then worry about everything else!

196 AmericanDefender  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:32:32pm

RE: #52 Looking Closely

Spot on observations. Appreciate your insight

197 alien_mind  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:32:41pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

It's not that he couldn't it's that he won't. he lacks the will, vision and drive. I'm not pimping for Obama or encouraging people not to vote (as I am) but do you really want an unwilling, incapable candidate dragged into office against his will?


I STRONGLY disagree that McCain is unwilling or incapable, or that he lacks the vision or drive.

198 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:33:25pm

re: #183 Mars Needs Neocons

There is still a large group claiming to be undecided, Though, certain commentators state that these people are just Dems to afraid to say they are, I think there may be a large group that are truly undecided. Many people I have talked to aren't crazy about McCain, but are turned off by the fawning obsequiousness shown by the press to Obama.


Realistically, the number of TRUE undecided likely voters at this point is probably pretty small.

And with the *perception* being that Obama is ahead (whether true or false), the so-called "undecideds" are more likely to be pro-McCain and afraid to admit it, rather than the other way around.

199 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:33:34pm

re: #178 stuiec

I think McCain should have foregone public financing when Obama did -- unilateral disarmament is always foolish ...

McCain staked his reputation on the ridiculous notion of federal financing of campaigns so backing down would have been tantamount to admitting defeat. He really believes that financing for campaigns should be level or "fair." Now, his own idealism is ruining the Republican Party's chances for victory.

200 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:33:39pm

re: #191 Moe Katz

I'm no capitulation primate, but I haven't seen such a Teflon candidate in any political arena in decades.

More teflon per square inch than Reagan. Except that Reagan didn't have any problems in his background, like Obama has. It's truly amazing.

201 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:33:52pm

re: #180 Walter L. Newton

Negative bull. The truth is not negative campaigning. And McCain should shout that out everytime he is accused of it.

Look, there are time tested techniques in debating, framing a point, arguing a point, speaking to crowds, you know, the whole ball of wax.

McCain is not doing this, in any sort of way.

According to what I am reading here, the MSM holds so much power that we may as well give it up.

Not me.

I do find it interesting the the press is in a such a panic that they are throwing the old "McCain is using negative attacks" BS when if anything he's playing it far too safe. There has to be a reason they are doing this, I don't think they are as confident as they pretend.

202 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:34:06pm

re: #73 capitalistbaby

I contributed! Thanx for telling about this - I saw her on TV once and she was great!

203 The Shadow Do  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:34:38pm

re: #197 alien_mind

I STRONGLY disagree that McCain is unwilling or incapable, or that he lacks the vision or drive.

As do I. McCain is being hurt on style points, not substance. That says more about the electorate than it does the candidate.

204 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:34:38pm

For all the nay-sayers here who have already given this election over to Obama, please go and read the threads at the Hillary Clinton Forum.

They keep fighting, even when the poll numbers suck. They keep volunteering their time and efforts to make sure John McCain and Sarah Palin come out ahead on November 4.

And their candidate lost in the primary. But they keep fighting.

Some folks here need to get a handle on it and keep up the fight, or if they're convinced we're going to lose, KEEP YOUR DAMNED TRAP SHUT!

You think Obama's going to win? Fine. But the rest of us still hold out hope for our country. We aren't willing to give up yet, because there are two more weeks in which to fight this thing, and it ain't over yet!

So Eyeore? Stop with the gloom and doom, and join in the fight like the rest of us!

Sheesh. I'd hate for my life to be in the hands of some of you - I'd be a gonner for sure!

205 SpartanWoman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:34:57pm

re: #198 looking closely

Realistically, the number of TRUE undecided likely voters at this point is probably pretty small.

And with the *perception* being that Obama is ahead (whether true or false), the so-called "undecideds" are more likely to be pro-McCain and afraid to admit it, rather than the other way around.

I will be thrilled if there are sneaky McCain voting dems ready to spring into action..the magical 16% of people who lie to pollsters

206 stevieray  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:35:14pm

McCain will drive you crazy... that much is true. But remember this: we need to get the PUMA vote to win this time around.

A hard-core conservative wouldn't be able to get enough of them to make a difference.

They are comfortable with McCain precisely because he crosses the aisle from time to time, and takes a moderate position now and again.

He can't be effectively demonized in the eyes of the PUMAs... eyes that have been opened by what happened to Hillary in the primaries.

207 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:35:25pm

re: #198 looking closely

Realistically, the number of TRUE undecided likely voters at this point is probably pretty small.
And with the *perception* being that Obama is ahead (whether true or false), the so-called "undecideds" are more likely to be pro-McCain and afraid to admit it, rather than the other way around.

It's my understanding that is it somewhere between 15-18% actlually

208 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:35:31pm

re: #199 hermeneutics

McCain staked his reputation on the ridiculous notion of federal financing of campaigns so backing down would have been tantamount to admitting defeat. He really believes that financing for campaigns should be level or "fair." Now, his own idealism is ruining the Republican Party's chances for victory.

Obama was for federal financing of campaigns before he was against it. Now where have I heard that type of double-speak before?

/

210 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:36:05pm

A little metaphor from Nature that seems apropos to this election. I was fishing the Pere Marquette in northern Michigan on a beautiful autumn day last weekend. I was watching this noble brown trout working like hell to make it upstream, where it will spawn and die.
Then I saw this lovely, colorful, lifeless maple leaf, merrily spinning along on its way downstream.
Draw your own conclusions. Anyway, I thought it instructive.

211 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:36:25pm

re: #208 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

That's not the Federal Financing I knew

212 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:36:57pm

re: #206 stevieray

McCain will drive you crazy... that much is true. But remember this: we need to get the PUMA vote to win this time around.

A hard-core conservative wouldn't be able to get enough of them to make a difference.

They are comfortable with McCain precisely because he crosses the aisle from time to time, and takes a moderate position now and again.

He can't be effectively demonized in the eyes of the PUMAs... eyes that have been opened by what happened to Hillary in the primaries.

A fine point!

213 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:03pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

It's my understanding that is it somewhere between 15-18% actlually

And Pres. Nixon called those voters the "silent majority'.

214 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:11pm

re: #80 stuiec

Do you know where Rudy Giuliani is?

Rudy is in Pennsylvania with Cindy McCain. I heard him call in to Rush Limbaugh today.

215 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:13pm

Good moooooooorrrrrning Reptilia!

Posted a spinoff link to a very interesting statement. Go check. (:

216 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:15pm

re: #206 stevieray

McCain will drive you crazy... that much is true. But remember this: we need to get the PUMA vote to win this time around.

A hard-core conservative wouldn't be able to get enough of them to make a difference.

They are comfortable with McCain precisely because he crosses the aisle from time to time, and takes a moderate position now and again.

He can't be effectively demonized in the eyes of the PUMAs... eyes that have been opened by what happened to Hillary in the primaries.

Don't worry about the PUMAs ....... they will crawl to the polls to vote against Senator Government .....

217 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:27pm

Good evening all y'all - not quite as late as I have been but still a tad late. What have I missed? More defeatism about the Presidential Race?
I really don't want to hear that sorta stuff.
But what else has been happening?

218 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:52pm

re: #198 looking closely

Realistically, the number of TRUE undecided likely voters at this point is probably pretty small.

And with the *perception* being that Obama is ahead (whether true or false), the so-called "undecideds" are more likely to be pro-McCain and afraid to admit it, rather than the other way around.

I agree. I do know that there are a lot of people that don't like McCain (they see him as Bush II as absurd as that is.) But, they are just really worried about what an Obama presidency will mean.

219 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:56pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

BODY PARTS MADE OUT OF BREAD

Outrageous! I haven't been this outraged since Nijinsky danced La Sacre at the Théâtre des Champs-Élysées.

220 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:56pm

You are far too negative. The polling isn't bad.

Most of the undecided are McCain voters who are cowed by the media and social perception into "voting for the black candidate." I'd guess that 75 to 80 percent of the undecideds are for McCain.

You forget, too, that most of the final polls had Bush losing in 2004 and at this point had him down from 3-7 percent, similar to McCain.

The polls will widen a bit this week and look bad for McCain but next week they'll close. Much of this closure will be due to the reweighting of D and R in the samples. They'll rejigger it so that the Republican ID is closer to historical norms, about 3 percent lower than Dem.

In fact, if you take some of the outlandish polls and recalculate them to a +3D, in many of them McCain is winning.

221 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:37:57pm

re: #203 The Shadow Do

As do I. McCain is being hurt on style points, not substance. That says more about the electorate than it does the candidate.

Bingo. I had to tell someone today: "Yeah, I know all the cool people are supporting Obama, but I just can't drink that Kool-aid."

222 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:38:00pm

re: #214 Cast Iron Magnolia

Rudy was here in Manila last month holding a leadership conference.

Unfortunately, it would've cost me an arm, leg, and most of my scales just to attend... D:

223 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:38:20pm

it's on here as well

but it looks like this information has come out before...I guess the mainstream media doesn't think it newsworthy that the likely next president of the US was a member of an offshoot of the Socialist International!

Dan Quayle spelled potato incorrectly. That was newsworthy. Joe didn't get all his plumbing qualifications yet. That was newsworthy. Obama being a member of a Socialist Party? Who cares!?

224 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:38:42pm

re: #217 realwest

Check #215. Should be interesting...

225 The Shadow Do  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:38:42pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

It's my understanding that is it somewhere between 15-18% actlually

Yup, anything can happen depending on the mood America wakes up in on election day. Totally unpredictable. Rove is right, Obama has not closed the deal. Not by a long shot.

226 Killer Tomato  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:38:43pm

re: #198 looking closely

Realistically, the number of TRUE undecided likely voters at this point is probably pretty small.

And with the *perception* being that Obama is ahead (whether true or false), the so-called "undecideds" are more likely to be pro-McCain and afraid to admit it, rather than the other way around.

A couple of people have told me that they don't want to tell anyone calling that they're supporting McCain in fear that they'll get to the polls to discover that their vote has been 'stolen'.
Personally, I still say I'm undecided - the more time they spend calling me back, the less time they have to connect with someone who really hasn't made up their mind.

227 unclassifiable  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:38:59pm

re: #208 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Obama was for federal financing of campaigns before he was against it. Now where have I heard that type of double-speak before?

/

There are no contradictions if you are a "progressive".

228 3 wood  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:39:08pm

Good evening.

In market news, LIBOR dropped significantly today, indicating a thawing of the credit markets.

The Nikkei in Tokyo is up 233 points at the moment.

The DOW and S&P futures point to a lower open tomorrow at the bell though.

The VIX, which indicates market volatility, dropped 24% today, although it is still very high.

Although we are sure to have more bad days, hopefully we have seen the last of the 700 point drops for a long time to come.

229 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:39:16pm

re: #222 laZardo

Rudy was here in Manila last month holding a leadership conference.

Unfortunately, it would've cost me an arm, leg, and most of my scales just to attend... D:

You should have visited the bakery in post #142

230 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:39:18pm
231 alien_mind  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:39:26pm

re: #137 Globular Cluster

He's willing. He's had the odds stacked against him from day one and he's still in the race. He's run a lame campaign, agreed, but not worse than many other campaigns in previous years. He his fighting against impossible odds: outspent 6:1, MSM in the tank, first black candidate. Anyone would be struggling. You think Bush could take Obama? No way.

exactly, he has faced down a perfect storm, and while perhaps he could have done this or that in a better way, I cannot think of another Republican that I'm sure would be faring any better at this point.

and, the bottom line is...McCain is going to win.

232 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:39:51pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

It's not that he couldn't it's that he won't. he lacks the will, vision and drive. I'm not pimping for Obama or encouraging people not to vote (as I am) but do you really want an unwilling, incapable candidate dragged into office against his will?


That's what they said about McCain and the Republican primary too. He was completely written off early in the season.

The problem is that McCain is fighting not only Obama, but an essentially openly hostile press, and a public poisoned by eight years of irrational anti-Bush propaganda.

Despite this, McCain is *still* within a few points of Obama (assuming you believe the polls, and there is good reason not to).

Just because he's not fighting the kind of fight you'd like to see, or frankly even the best one possible, doesn't mean he's doing nothing, that he doesn't want to win, or that he isn't going to win.

And I'll throw this out for your consideration. With poll bias, its absolutely possible that right now, McCain is actually ahead of Obama by 2-3 points among individuals likely to actually vote.

233 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:40:02pm

re: #173 looking closely

Most people have never heard of the "New Party" . Without the appropriate background, putting that out in a "sound bite" format debate isn't going to be all that helpful.
Then Obama would simply issue a flat denial, the way he bald-faced lied about his connection to Ayers in the third debate.
Then the media wouldn't follow up, just as they have NOT done so with Ayers. This wouldn't have been a winning debate strategy.

Ok, then you are STILL making my point. McCain can't win. With the truth or with out the truth. The MSM, the liberals, Obama, Acorn etal. have this all wrapped up.

So, what are you trying to say?

234 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:40:03pm

re: #217 realwest

Good evening all y'all - not quite as late as I have been but still a tad late. What have I missed? More defeatism about the Presidential Race?
I really don't want to hear that sorta stuff.
But what else has been happening?

Hate to tell you this, but USMC1968 passed away.

235 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:40:11pm

re: #216 JacksonTn

PUMA. Sorry, what is this?

236 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:40:16pm

HERE IT IS IN A NUTSHELL

Obama says that he was "only 8 years old when Ayers committed those dispicable acts"
The MSM says 'Great, thats settled"
PROBLEM ,, the point is NOT what Obama did when he was 8, but the decision he made when he was 40! (a point that Hillary, McCain, Palin et al have made
The MSM does not pursue.

YOU do the math

237 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:40:51pm

re: #229 Desert Dog

re: #142 Killgore Trout

...don't eat the baguettes!

/

238 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:40:59pm

re: #192 SpartanWoman

Whoo-hoo, Russell was actualy ahead in the last poll I could find. I hope,no pray this holds. It's within the margin , but damn, he's winning.

[Link: www.politictoc.com...]

239 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:41:00pm

re: #204 Intrepid

For all the nay-sayers here who have already given this election over to Obama, please go and read the threads at the Hillary Clinton Forum.

They keep fighting, even when the poll numbers suck. They keep volunteering their time and efforts to make sure John McCain and Sarah Palin come out ahead on November 4.

And their candidate lost in the primary. But they keep fighting.

Some folks here need to get a handle on it and keep up the fight, or if they're convinced we're going to lose, KEEP YOUR DAMNED TRAP SHUT!

You think Obama's going to win? Fine. But the rest of us still hold out hope for our country. We aren't willing to give up yet, because there are two more weeks in which to fight this thing, and it ain't over yet!

So Eyeore? Stop with the gloom and doom, and join in the fight like the rest of us!

Sheesh. I'd hate for my life to be in the hands of some of you - I'd be a gonner for sure!

Yeah, there is altogether too much whining and defeatism from some people here. Fact: McCain has tied it up in Florida and Ohio. Actually, he is ahead 1 point in FL and 2 points in Ohio. This is still a race and people should be working twice as hard instead of crying.

240 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:41:03pm

re: #230 Gus 802

Good grief. Bernanke is endorsing That One.

Who's next, Hank Paulson?

Whore .....no prostitute ...... he is doing it for the money .....trickle out the endorsements ......that is their style ......

241 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:41:12pm

re: #235 JohnAdams

Party Unity, My Ass - Ex-Hildebeast supporters who want nothing more than the brutal and searing defeat of "The One"

242 Inquisitive  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:41:36pm

re: #199 hermeneutics

McCain staked his reputation on the ridiculous notion of federal financing of campaigns so backing down would have been tantamount to admitting defeat. He really believes that financing for campaigns should be level or "fair." Now, his own idealism is ruining the Republican Party's chances for victory.


Sorry.....I hit plus....agree with McCain could not back down..... because he is standing for what he really believes in.....but then hit - when read his idealism is ruining chances for victory.......the election is not over yet. So I + and - this comment......hoping it would end up with a 0

243 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:41:43pm

re: #215 laZardo
Good evening morning laZardo - since I'm not a gamer, I thought perhaps you could tell me: what ever happened to LittleBigPlanet, with that song in it?
Did Sony ever release it?

244 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:41:47pm

re: #219 experiencedtraveller

Outrageous! I haven't been this outraged since Nijinsky danced La Sacre at the Théâtre des Champs-Élysées.

I thought that was you in the third row with the popcorn!

245 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:42:10pm

re: #235 JohnAdams

Party Unity My Ass.

246 3 wood  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:42:50pm

Bernanke endorses fiscal stimulus

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Another shot of fiscal stimulus may be needed now to help the U.S. economy recover from what could be a drawn-out slowdown, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Monday.
"With the economy likely to be weak for several quarters and with some risk of a protracted slowdown, consideration of a fiscal package by the Congress at this juncture seems appropriate," he told legislators on the House Budget Committee.

Bernanke needs to shut his yap. This "stimulus" has to do with fiscal policy, i.e., politics, which he has no business getting involved in.

247 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:42:57pm

re: #240 JacksonTn

For sure. I know Barack said he might keep Paulson. Thus the question regarding Barack: what change?

248 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:43:05pm

re: #230 Gus 802

Good grief. Bernanke is endorsing That One.

Who's next, Hank Paulson?

Thinks he'll keep his job. Hope McCain fires his frickin' a$$

249 Mosse  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:43:11pm

What is with the reticence? Many of us Lizards, and many others, sent this info around many months ago. Here. This is a marxist listserve that has a discussion by members of the Committees of Correspondence analyzing what best socialist road they should take. [Link: archives.econ.utah.edu...]

Here's a Democratic Socialists of America Bulletin from 2006, talking about working with the Committees of Correspondence. It's one of MANY Bulletins that contain CoC postings! WHY the unwillingness to CALL this as socialism when it IS socialism! I personally know for a fact that kids are being recruited for revolutionary and communist orgs on college campuses. What gives?!
[Link: www.chicagodsa.org...]

250 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:43:14pm

more evidence

Illinois: The first NP member heads to Congress, as Danny Davis wins an overwhelming 85% victory yesterday (he got a higher percentage of the vote in that district than the President). NP member and State Senate candidate Barack Obama won uncontested.

251 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:43:18pm

re: #231 alien_mind

...and, the bottom line is...McCain is going to win.

I agree. It will be a HUGE upset, a Adlai Stevenson v. Harry S. Truman election.

252 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:43:30pm

re: #205 SpartanWoman
The polls usually skew slightly towards Democrats, but I think there are good reasons to suspect that the polls this contest are more skewed than usual.

Of course the race ultimately comes down to swing states (and hopefully NOT voter fraud in Ohio and elsewhere), but with Obama having a nominal lead of only a few points, this race is at LEAST still competitive.

253 Inquisitive  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:06pm

re: #204 Intrepid

For all the nay-sayers here who have already given this election over to Obama, please go and read the threads at the Hillary Clinton Forum.

They keep fighting, even when the poll numbers suck. They keep volunteering their time and efforts to make sure John McCain and Sarah Palin come out ahead on November 4.

And their candidate lost in the primary. But they keep fighting.

Some folks here need to get a handle on it and keep up the fight, or if they're convinced we're going to lose, KEEP YOUR DAMNED TRAP SHUT!

You think Obama's going to win? Fine. But the rest of us still hold out hope for our country. We aren't willing to give up yet, because there are two more weeks in which to fight this thing, and it ain't over yet!

So Eyeore? Stop with the gloom and doom, and join in the fight like the rest of us!

Sheesh. I'd hate for my life to be in the hands of some of you - I'd be a gonner for sure!

Wish I could give this more than 1 +

254 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:14pm

re: #216 JacksonTn

Don't worry about the PUMAs ....... they will crawl to the polls to vote against Senator Government .....

Yeah, and they will do so willingly! And they will volunteer their time and efforts, and give money to the Republican party when they've never ever thought of doing so before, just to keep Obama from the oval office.

Unlike many here, who have already given up and are expressing their defeatism for all to read and join in on.

To hell with that - I'm not giving up until all the votes are counted and the results announced.

My conscience won't let me do less.

255 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:30pm

re: #230 Gus 802

What did you expect, they're both Dems. Another reason Pres. Bush, drives me nuts.

256 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:41pm

re: #242 Inquisitive

Sorry.....I hit plus....agree with McCain could not back down..... because he is standing for what he really believes in.....but then hit - when read his idealism is ruining chances for victory.......the election is not over yet. So I + and - this comment......hoping it would end up with a 0

It is okay. I agree with both! And yes, the election isn't over, but he's making it harder for us to win.

257 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:48pm

re: #235 JohnAdams

PUMA. Sorry, what is this?

It may turn out to be Senator Government's worst nightmare .....

Party Unity My Ass .....

258 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:50pm

re: #243 realwest

There was a song in the game performed by an artist from Mali (a country in Africa). Someone heard lyrics that echoed verses from the Koran and got PISSED enough that Sony issued a worldwide recall for it (rather than just a simple patch, as PlayStation games can now be patched).

The spinoff link is to a response to the recall by the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. At least some of them have their head screwed on correctly...

259 solomonpanting  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:44:51pm

re: #251 hermeneutics

I agree. It will be a HUGE upset, a Adlai Stevenson v. Harry S. Truman election.

Truman v, Dewey?

260 SagamoreGal  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:45:08pm

Are there any intrepid "health" reporters from any major newspapers who have already landed in Honolulu to check out the seriousness of Granny Obama's declining health?

Biden's major faux pas a cowinkdinky? Two days for Team Obama to regroup for the final two weeks and to prepare legal teams for a major lawsuit filed against Obama this week?

261 BakaRanger  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:45:12pm

We are witnessing the perfect storm:

Grassroot voter fraud
a compliant media
and a messianic candidate.

262 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:45:21pm

RIP USMC1968

263 notutopia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:45:24pm

re: #204 Intrepid

I'm still do Chest compressions!
Press on or Die!
Fight dammit!

264 3 wood  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:45:32pm

Gotta get up early for work.

Good night folks.

265 Desert Dog  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:46:27pm

re: #258 laZardo

There was a song in the game performed by an artist from Mali (a country in Africa). Someone heard lyrics that echoed verses from the Koran and got PISSED enough that Sony issued a worldwide recall for it (rather than just a simple patch, as PlayStation games can now be patched).

The spinoff link is to a response to the recall by the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. At least some of them have their head screwed on correctly...

That song is from the devil! I am glad it is gone.....Now, here are some good songs

(do I need the sarc tag?)

266 DisgustingOratory  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:46:45pm

re: #162 Boy Hits Car

This is why projection is an effective tactic for them. They tell so many lies we're afraid to tell the truth. In addition, they'll do the things they've accused us of and we'll be afraid to call them on it. And considering the things we're accused of, its time to start resisting that sh*t now.

267 rawmuse  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:47:06pm

If the Undecideds have not figured out who BHO is by now, it is simply because they do not want to know. The damage to the USA will take two generations to undo, IF we survive, and I think we are hanging by a thread right now.

268 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:47:14pm

re: #246 3 wood

Bernanke endorses fiscal stimulus

Bernanke needs to shut his yap. This "stimulus" has to do with fiscal policy, i.e., politics, which he has no business getting involved in.

This guy has proven himself to be a hooker of the lowest class. Paulson tossed him around like a rag doll, and that NEVER happens (Treasury Sec is usally the jester to Fed Chairman). Newt Gingrich, as usual, was right. Bush should have fired both of these tools.

269 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:47:22pm

Nightline ....... first 16 minutes Senator Government .... still on .......not even trying to hide it any longer .......

270 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:47:28pm

re: #204 Intrepid

Agree with your post.

& I think this election comes under the promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail, too.

What with "punished with a baby".

271 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:47:55pm

re: #184 stuiec

Rudy Giuliani was today campaigning with Cindy McCain. You didn't know that because the media won't cover America's Mayor when he's acting treasonously against the election of The One.

There's a lot of what McCain, Palin and many other Republican campaigners ARE doing that you think they're NOT doing, because the MSM runs a cloaking campaign to keep you from seeing it.

That you for this. It does help keep my spirits up.

272 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:48:18pm

re: #222 laZardo

Rudy was here in Manila last month holding a leadership conference.

Unfortunately, it would've cost me an arm, leg, and most of my scales just to attend... D:


Awww, sorry you couldn't go. Rudy is a great speaker and I'm sure it would have been a good conference.

273 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:48:40pm

re: #259 solomonpanting

Truman v, Dewey?

Didn't we go through this last night?

274 Globular Cluster  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:48:45pm

re: #145 Killer Tomato

Yeah - half of us need to get in front and pull and the other half in back and push.
We really have no choice.

"Fight with me." -- John McCain

He means it.

275 gman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:48:45pm

re: #223 uptight

it's on here as well

but it looks like this information has come out before...I guess the mainstream media doesn't think it newsworthy that the likely next president of the US was a member of an offshoot of the Socialist International!

Dan Quayle spelled potato incorrectly. That was newsworthy. Joe didn't get all his plumbing qualifications yet. That was newsworthy. Obama being a member of a Socialist Party? Who cares!?

This is good stuff and the MSM can only ignore the rumblings of the bastard step- children in the cellar so long before they break through the floor boards.

Let's keep banging on those walls everyone.

276 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:48:51pm

re: #259 solomonpanting

Truman v, Dewey?

That too.

Everyone thought Adlai would win ... in academe, media, etc. He gave an amazine speech at the convention (1950? no, 1952) and then lost, and lost again.

277 itellu3times  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:48:55pm
questions that cry out for attention from a responsible press.

Crap, the MSM these days has never heard of socialism, and when they look it up on Wikipedia, it sounds great to them.

278 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:49:09pm

re: #233 Walter L. Newton

Ok, then you are STILL making my point. McCain can't win. With the truth or with out the truth. The MSM, the liberals, Obama, Acorn etal. have this all wrapped up.

So, what are you trying to say?


My points are:

a. You're a chicken little.
b. Not only CAN McCain win, he may in fact may ALREADY be winning. How do you know he isn't? Because Rasmussen tells you so? Because Kos thinks Obama is kicking ass? Because the NYT is predicting an Obama blowout? Because some highly partisan LGF posters are disappointed with McCain's performance at debates?
c. The debates are only good for so many things, and empirically introducing more sleazy associations during the debates isn't a winning tactic.

279 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:49:10pm

re: #251 hermeneutics

I agree. It will be a HUGE upset, a Adlai Stevenson v. Harry S. Truman election.

Truman was running against John Dewey, a Republican, not Adlai Stevenson, a fellow Democrat.

280 solomonpanting  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:49:31pm

re: #273 x-wing

How so?

281 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:49:42pm

re: #251 hermeneutics

Thomas Dewey. My father loves to tell the story of how Dewey had lined up this lavish election night victory party, complete with the biggest Hollywood celebrities and musical stars. The famous (Chicago?) newspaper headline declaring "Dewey Wins."

282 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:49:45pm

re: #234 Ozark Mountain Daredevil Yes, I know. Several friends out here were kind enough to e-mail me and I did get to post a comment on the Open Thread, although it was, I'm afraid, a fairly lame comment.
But it wasn't unexpected - he had the same cancer as do I and he had pretty much refused treatment for it (not that there was much the docs could do at his point of discovering the disease) and he felt that if God wanted him, then it was God's decision.
Nonetheless I'm sorry for his loss and his passing does in fact lessen all of us, to one degree or another.

283 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:49:46pm

I get it now ........ they last 5 minutes has been on his grandmother ......F*cking sellouts ......

284 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:06pm

re: #254 Intrepid

To hell with that - I'm not giving up until all the votes are counted RE-counted and the results announced.

My conscience won't let me do less.


Voter fraud is going to play a role here, unfortunately.

285 notutopia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:08pm

re: #260 SagamoreGal

Charles has dinged me for posting about and discussing this new suit. Best follow the advise.

286 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:10pm

The PUMAs will be to 0bama what the Reagan Democrats were to Carter.

287 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:10pm

I read a great book on Stevenson a couple years ago and am getting the names wrong. Sorry.

288 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:24pm

re: #269 JacksonTn

Nightline ....... first 16 minutes Senator Government .... still on .......not even trying to hide it any longer .......

If a tree falls in the forest and no one sees it...

289 BigJohn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:36pm

This whole economic meltdown has been a blueprint for future democrat SOBs on how to turn a segment of the economy socialist. They set up these government back finance companies and encouraged them to make bad loans that were government guaranteed. When they ultimately failed, WALLAH, the United States government is in the banking, finance, and mortgage business. I am so effin pissed.

290 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:36pm

I don't know why the Chicago DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) haven't removed THIS PAGE yet:

About 50 activists attended the Chicago New Party membership meeting in July....The political entourage included Alderman Michael Chandler, William Delgado, chief of staff for State Rep Miguel del Valle, and spokespersons for State Sen. Alice Palmer, Sonya Sanchez, chief of staff for State Sen. Jesse Garcia, who is running for State Rep in Garcia's District; and Barack Obama, chief of staff for State Sen. Alice Palmer. Obama is running for Palmer's vacant seat.

291 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:50:53pm
292 Yankee Division Son  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:51:04pm

OT -

Abscam Conspirator/Troop Defamer Jack Murtha: I Didn't Mean To Call My Constituents Racists, I Meant To Say They're Rednecks (Who, By the Way, Are Racist!)

Hello? MSM? any (real) journalist home?

HT - Ace

293 hermeneutics  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:51:51pm

Good night, all. I'm drugged and about to sleep.

294 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:11pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

Truman was running against John Thomas Dewey, a Republican, not Adlai Stevenson, a fellow Democrat.

Fixed, oops.

295 nigella  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:21pm

With the greatest hope that Obama's Grandma is alright, aren't you the least bit suspicious of Obama's sudden interest in his Grandmothers health?I know this is treading on sacred ground, but if Obama was so concerned about her health, why did he wait till she was home from the hospital? Look if the situation was so dire wouldn't he have been at her side in the hospital? To tell us he was suspending his campaign Thursday and Friday to return Saturday is a bit suspect. Don't call me callous but why isn't Michele and the two Great grand daughters going to visit their "dying" great grandma? Just saying.....

296 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:30pm

re: #274 Globular Cluster

"Fight with me." -- John McCain

He means it.

Sure it's not "Fight for me"?

297 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:33pm

re: #275 gman

This is good stuff and the MSM can only ignore the rumblings of the bastard step- children in the cellar so long before they break through the floor boards.

Let's keep banging on those walls everyone.

folks?

You heard the GMAN

keep banging away - Obama was a member of a Socialist party. If we all make enough noise, it may wake up enough people before you get a Socialist president

298 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:44pm

re: #280 solomonpanting

The Truman Dewey thing, same thing came up.

299 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:52pm

re: #246 3 wood
Hello my friend. Wasn't it you who said that every time Bernanke opened his mouth the markets took a hit or some other financial damage was done?
Seems to me, in that case, that he'd be a logical choice for Obama!

300 notutopia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:52:55pm

re: #268 JohnAdams

In the real Corporate world, you're right, they would both have been replaced long ago. But, then It's only Our money they're managing right?

301 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:53:23pm

re: #112 JacksonTn

He is on the campaign bus with Cindy McCain .....

BINGO!

302 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:53:57pm

re: #281 JohnAdams

Thomas Dewey. My father loves to tell the story of how Dewey had lined up this lavish election night victory party, complete with the biggest Hollywood celebrities and musical stars. The famous (Chicago?) newspaper headline declaring "Dewey Wins."

Actually it as "Dewey Defeats Truman".

303 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:54:33pm

more more

Barack Obama, victor in the 13th State Senate District, encouraged NPers to join in his task forces on Voter Education and Voter Registration

304 wolfie  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:54:43pm

re: #266 DisgustingOratory

The method, while not original to Saul Alinsky, is promoted in his Rules for Radicals. Pre-emptively and loudly attack your opponent for doing whatever shady thing you are planning to do.

305 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:55:06pm

re: #254 Intrepid
"To hell with that - I'm not giving up until all the votes are counted and the results announced." Well if the voting results announced are that Obama won, I'm not giving up until we have a re-count!
LOL!

306 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:55:11pm

The MSM looks at a presidential candidate the same way they see a sitcom. It could also be compared to the Nielsen Ratings.

When you add the leftwards tendencies of the MSMs principals and participants the results are what we see today in the gross and wide bias towards Barack.

I gave up on TV a long time ago and couldn't imagine having to suffer through this bias and the preponderance of Obama ads.

307 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:55:23pm

re: #282 realwest

Yes, I know. Several friends out here were kind enough to e-mail me and I did get to post a comment on the Open Thread, although it was, I'm afraid, a fairly lame comment.
But it wasn't unexpected - he had the same cancer as do I and he had pretty much refused treatment for it (not that there was much the docs could do at his point of discovering the disease) and he felt that if God wanted him, then it was God's decision.
Nonetheless I'm sorry for his loss and his passing does in fact lessen all of us, to one degree or another.

Sorry to hear that. I wasn't aware that you knew or that you have the same type of cancer. Keep fighting the good fight!

308 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:55:26pm

re: #262 newsjunkie_ky

RIP USMC1968


Can you tell me about USMC1968? I don't know anything about that member (I'm new).

309 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:55:54pm

re: #295 nigella

If it was Sarah's grandmother the Kos kiddies would be photoshopping pictures of Sarah and her Down's baby pushing a pillow over an old woman's head.
This is just one of the reasons why I'm at heart a conservative. We represent a bastion of civility that is disappearing. This election is in part about that.

310 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:01pm

re: #258 laZardo
So SONY DID cave in, right?!

311 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:08pm

re: #199 hermeneutics

McCain staked his reputation on the ridiculous notion of federal financing of campaigns so backing down would have been tantamount to admitting defeat. He really believes that financing for campaigns should be level or "fair." Now, his own idealism is ruining the Republican Party's chances for victory.

True... unless he wins.

Know why Obama's raised $600 million over the course of a year?

Because if George Soros gave it to him all at once, it would look suspicious.

312 solomonpanting  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:12pm

re: #298 x-wing

The Truman Dewey thing, same thing came up.

Yes, ok, but it doesn't hurt to set the record straight more than once. I don't mind when someone corrects me the no good rotten sob's.
;O

313 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:40pm

re: #310 realwest

So SONY DID cave in, right?!

Yes

314 unclassifiable  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:42pm

Occasionally there are folks that snag pre-written obits and other notices in hidden but unsecured web directories.

I bet you there are a ton of pre-written Obama victory salutations on the MSM web sites already.

315 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:48pm

There is good reason to doubt the polling.

OK, well I got polled and now I am pissed.

We just moved back to CO and I registered as an Independent. I think that is the reason I got the call.

Here is how it went - they called when my 10 month old was upset so I told them not right now. She said she just wanted a few questions and didn’t mind my son being upset. I said fine.

She NEVER asked me WHO I supported. She asked this question first -

1. Do you support lower taxes to help the economy recover. - of course, I said yes.

2. Did I support our initial ‘invasion’ of Iraq. She emphasized that this wasn’t about the surge or supporting the troops now, just did I believe we should have been there in the first place. I said No, I didn’t really think now was the time to have gone in.

At that point I asked her why she didn’t just ask me who I supported. She said that the polling company didn’t want partisanship they believed that a person’s opinion on the issues reveals who they will vote for.

So I asked her who my answers revealed I would vote for.

She said I was put in the supporting Obama category…………..

Read it all.

316 gman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:56:51pm

Background on the New Party at DTN

317 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:57:43pm

Well, Nightline on to more important things than McCain campaign ... UFOs ......

318 Cartman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:57:50pm

Spread The Wealth Around™

319 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:57:54pm

re: #162 Boy Hits Car

Man, I don't want to sound like an Obama supporter, but all these "uncoverings" or "connections" seem to parallel what the left did to Bush. Ie. Neocon, oil buddies, Haliburton, religious zealot, ignore the poor...

Turn it around and you have, New party, socialism, marxists, steal from the rich...

Just wondering if it's all a little too similar to the way Bush was unfairly criticized which turned into BDS, over-the-top hate and irrational conspiracy theories. Maybe we are all overreacting. Just thinking outloud.

The hypnosis thing was ridiculous. And a lot of this is nutty.

What isn't nutty is the fact that this guy is going to be bad for America's economic survival - so bad, in fact, that if you read up on it, and give it some thought, you can come to believe that he is a radical hiding in plain sight. I'm starting to think he might actually WANT to wreck us all, in the name of social engineering. I'm just going to link dump from the WSJ, feel free to pass these around:

A Liberal Supermajority

Get Ready for the New Deal

Socking it to Small Business

Obama Talks Nonsense on Tax Cuts

Obama's Carbon Ultimatum

Obama's 95% Illusion

Read all of those in order. And of course, they are "just" somebody's opinion, but the whole picture they present is one of unmitigated disaster.

320 the_flying_pig  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:57:59pm

What responsible press Kurtz is referring to? There's no responsible press in America, they're all in the tank for 0bama!

321 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:58:05pm

re: #316 gman

Discover the Networks is a great resource.

322 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:59:34pm

re: #284 looking closely

Voter fraud is going to play a role here, unfortunately.

Yet they didn't take into consideration the PUMA vote.

323 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:59:37pm

re: #304 wolfie

The method, while not original to Saul Alinsky, is promoted in his Rules for Radicals. Pre-emptively and loudly attack your opponent for doing whatever shady thing you are planning to do.

Yes, that was Alinsky's method. The counter is not to be psyched out by the accusation and go after the leftie when he tries his trick. "The great thing, the only thing is not to lose your nerve". That line is not original, I got it from Jerry Pournelle.

324 lummox  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:59:41pm

re: #300 notutopia

In the real Corporate world, you're right, they would both have been replaced long ago. But, then It's only Our money they're managing right?

It used to be.

325 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:59:53pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

I have always flatly refused to answer ANY poll questions.

I think this is better for the country.

Look at the tizzy some folks are inhere because of the polls.

What a waste of energy.

326 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 8:59:59pm
327 stuiec  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:00:43pm

re: #290 uptight

I don't know why the Chicago DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) haven't removed THIS PAGE yet:

Obama got the endorsement, for which he had to sign a pledge to support and remain involved with the New Party. That's why they later refer to him as a Party member.

328 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:01:04pm

re: #318 Cartman

Spread The Wealth Around™

That would actually be a really great subversive bumper sticker. Most people would not get it, but those who do sure would. And you might not get rocks thrown at your car.

329 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:01:30pm

re: #317 JacksonTn

Well, Nightline on to more important things than McCain campaign ... UFOs ......

And Sarah Palin was just in Roswell, NM! Coincidence? I think not!

330 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:01:48pm

sorry - I should explain.

courtesy of the Wayback Machine...

New Party's own website confirmed Obama's membership

331 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:02:23pm

re: #267 rawmuse
Ya know I think there are a lot of folks who are either saying they are undecided or are saying they are for Obama just because they don't want to be hassled anymore or because they are afraid of what they're saying they are for McCain might result in for them personally.
I STILL believe that when the average American Voter gets into the privacy of the voting booth, he or she votes for the candidate they feel they can trust. And good orator or not, MSM backing or not, Obama just doesn't seem to me to come across as either sincere in his beliefs (well, that's natural given how many times he's changed his "beliefs" on FISA, Public Financing, Rev. Wright, Israel, and on and on and on) nor as trustworthy (ACORN, Socialism, attack dogs on just about ANYONE who disagrees with him, e.g., Joe the Plumber). I just don't think Obama's gonna win. In fact I'm looking for a margin of victory for McCain similar to that of Bush over Kerry.

332 Ojoe  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:02:28pm

re: #326 uptight

Where did you find THAT?

Deserves a thread of its own.

Good Night All

333 x-wing  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:02:30pm

re: #312 solomonpanting

It must have been other people posting last night, just seem funny, to see it again tonight. ;>}

334 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:03:25pm

re: #316 gman

Background on the New Party at DTN

I've been over there reading, too. Did you check out the article about the Worker's Family Party? No apparent connection to the O but it was an interesting read.

335 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:03:51pm

re: #295 nigella

With the greatest hope that Obama's Grandma is alright, aren't you the least bit suspicious of Obama's sudden interest in his Grandmothers health?I know this is treading on sacred ground, but if Obama was so concerned about her health, why did he wait till she was home from the hospital? Look if the situation was so dire wouldn't he have been at her side in the hospital? To tell us he was suspending his campaign Thursday and Friday to return Saturday is a bit suspect. Don't call me callous but why isn't Michele and the two Great grand daughters going to visit their "dying" great grandma? Just saying.....

I wondered the same thing, nigella. If she was so sick back last week and has only been discharged from the hospital now, why wouldn't he have been by her side when she was at the hospital? And why wouldn't Michelle and the girls go with him?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't speak well for him.

336 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:05:16pm

re: #310 realwest

They did (there's an article downthread) and the AIFD statement is a response to that.

337 gman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:06:04pm

re: #321 Gus 802

Discover the Networks is a great resource.

It's one of my favs too.

338 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:06:20pm

re: #305 realwest

"To hell with that - I'm not giving up until all the votes are counted and the results announced." Well if the voting results announced are that Obama won, I'm not giving up until we have a re-count!
LOL!

Heh! No, I'm not a sorry loser, realwest. If the tallies show that Obama is the next president, I'll accept it. After all, I am an American.

339 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:06:38pm

re: #331 realwest

Ya know I think there are a lot of folks who are either saying they are undecided or are saying they are for Obama just because they don't want to be hassled anymore or because they are afraid of what they're saying they are for McCain might result in for them personally.
I STILL believe that when the average American Voter gets into the privacy of the voting booth, he or she votes for the candidate they feel they can trust. And good orator or not, MSM backing or not, Obama just doesn't seem to me to come across as either sincere in his beliefs (well, that's natural given how many times he's changed his "beliefs" on FISA, Public Financing, Rev. Wright, Israel, and on and on and on) nor as trustworthy (ACORN, Socialism, attack dogs on just about ANYONE who disagrees with him, e.g., Joe the Plumber). I just don't think Obama's gonna win. In fact I'm looking for a margin of victory for McCain similar to that of Bush over Kerry.

I'd be more than happy with a Bush-Gore 2000 result, an Obama win in the popular vote, but McCain winning the electoral college, minus The Zero™ trying to sue his way into the White House.

340 gmsc  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:06:50pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

There is good reason to doubt the polling.

Read it all.

Hey - I'm all for being mislabeled in a poll. Go ahead an put me down as voting for 0bama. When the poll results are released, it will just drive more conservatives to the polls to make sure McCain wins.

341 gman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:12pm

Dos anyone know anything about this "electoral fusion" that the New Party was involved in?

342 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:24pm

re: #330 uptight

sorry - I should explain.

courtesy of the Wayback Machine...

New Party's own website confirmed Obama's membership

All that stuff has been out there ....... they all have it .......it should have come up in the primary but Hillary could not bring it up because ....... she is socialism-lite .....she did her thesis on Alinsky but drifted away ....... I believe another reason for Hillary and Bill campaigning for Senator Government is that ...... everyone thinks she had the goods on him ...... and she does ....... but they have the goods on Hillary and Bill also ...... much more damning than anything out there already ....... it would be too much for Hillary to be thought of as a socialist .....Bill could not stand for that ........ I do believe Hillary at least is less dangerous for America ...... like I said in a previous post ...... the dems are "all in" this election ...... they will destroy anything in their way ..... the economy .....people ..... anything ......

343 Gorgon Zola  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:27pm

unabashed comment shovel:
worst case:'fairness doctrine' enacted,,talk radio shut down,,as some suggest next alternative is radio pirate stations,,can't those frequencies be jammed(executive fiat)? and when the libs
turn the internet over to the u.n. ? delete streaming talk/..i don't see how a shutdown of conservative voice can be avoided,,

344 rawmuse  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:42pm

re: #331 realwest

I hope you are right. I actually spent a fair amount of time today rehearsing my actions for when they come for my guns, which I think will happen about 2010 of BHO administration. I am not as optimistic as are you, due to my immediate environs, I suppose.

345 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:50pm

re: #265 Desert Dog

The great thing about recent and upcoming Sony games is the ability to listen to music loaded onto the harddrive while you play the game (we in the gaming community call it "custom soundtracks.") I particularly like...

346 alien_mind  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:56pm

re: #295 nigella

With the greatest hope that Obama's Grandma is alright, aren't you the least bit suspicious of Obama's sudden interest in his Grandmothers health?I know this is treading on sacred ground, but if Obama was so concerned about her health, why did he wait till she was home from the hospital? Look if the situation was so dire wouldn't he have been at her side in the hospital? To tell us he was suspending his campaign Thursday and Friday to return Saturday is a bit suspect. Don't call me callous but why isn't Michele and the two Great grand daughters going to visit their "dying" great grandma? Just saying.....


its suspect. like skippping school for several days and coming back in with a note saying your Grandmother was sick. if she was so bad, it seems he would have to leave immediately, and if its something that can wait a fews days and be scheduled, then is it really so serious that it couldn't wait a couple weeks? i hate to speculate when it involves someones health, but at this stage nothing from That One is without a political calculation.
in a way it innoculates him from attack for the rest of the week until Saturday. just imagine how the media is going to make this the story now.

347 itellu3times  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:07:59pm

Spread the wealth around,
Love the revolution!
Turn it upside down
Love the revolution!
Love to hear it, ...

/the obama sound machine

348 Cartman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:08:02pm

re: #328 JohnAdams

So far I've had no rocks thrown at my vehicle, but lots of faces contorted with rage and upraised middle fingers directed at me and my bumper stickers. It's a hoot to watch lefties spontaneously combust over the most trivial things. ;)

349 wolfie  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:08:09pm

Good news and bad news.

The good news is that the people at a GOTV meeting we hosted tonight are pumped up and ready to go! Our chairman, who I had never met in person before, is a beautiful young woman in her early twenties, sharp as a tack and super-organized. We are gonna bring them bitter and clingy grannies out of them thar hills and down to the polls!

The bad news is that they ate all of the cookies I made. Not a crumb left over.

350 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:08:22pm

realwest:

Hey - good to see you on here. How are things looking in your state right now?

351 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:08:22pm

re: #338 Intrepid

Heh! No, I'm not a sorry loser, realwest. If the tallies show that Obama is the next president, I'll accept it. After all, I am an American.

When Obama wins, you'll be something even better - a Citizen of the World!

/

352 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:08:45pm

More very important evidence of Obama's socialism:

One of the themes that has emerged in Barack Obama's campaign is "what does it take to create productive communities", not just consumptive communities. It is an issue that joins some of the best instincts of the conservatives with the better instincts of the left. He felt the state government has three constructive roles to play.

The first is "human capital development". By this he meant public education, welfare reform, and a "workforce preparation strategy". Public education requires equality in funding. It's not that money is the only solution to public education's problems but it's a start toward a solution. The current proposals for welfare reform are intended to eliminate welfare but it's also true that the status quo is not tenable. A true welfare system would provide for medical care, child care and job training. While Barack Obama did not use this term, it sounded very much like the "social wage" approach used by many social democratic labor parties. By "workforce preparation strategy", Barack Obama simply meant a coordinated, purposeful program of job training instead of the ad hoc, fragmented approach used by the State of Illinois today.

The state government can also play a role in redistribution, the allocation of wages and jobs. As Barack Obama noted, when someone gets paid $10 million to eliminate 4,000 jobs, the voters in his district know this is an issue of power not economics. The government can use as tools labor law reform, public works and contracts.

"The state government can also play a role in redistribution, the allocation of wages and jobs" - That's COMMUNISM, Barry!

And what the fuck is a "workforce preparation strategy", Barry. Sounds Orwellian to me.

353 wolfie  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:08:50pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

That is a great line.

354 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:09:59pm

re: #349 wolfie

How can you people cling to your religion when the leftovers don't even fill twelve baskets after everyone has had their fill?!

/ [=

355 notutopia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:10:29pm

re: #315 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, I got phone polled yesterday and I'm reg. as Indep.
The first question I asked, was, Who are you representing?
The answer, Campaign for Barack Obama. I hung up.
After reading Zombie post on his experience with his volunteer polling, I conclude, that I probably am also in the database now as well.
These people have invested lots of money to purchase voter databases and now will keep them updated on their findings.
I get at least one a day automated call from Obama campaigning on my message server.
But you know, I have NEVER been called by McCain/Palin campaigning or for a poll.

356 nigella  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:11:44pm

I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but here goes..... something unpleasant is going to come out about Obama and this is set to counter that. Now ordinarily I don't go with this kind of stuff, but consider Obama's past connections with his grandma during this election. Sorry to say but I believe he would use her for political gain. God forgive me for saying that but I believe Obama would do anything to win including using his own Grandmother. God bless her and keep her and protect us from this joke of a human being.

357 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:11:51pm

re: #342 JacksonTn

All that stuff has been out there ....... they all have it .......it should have come up in the primary but Hillary could not bring it up because ....... she is socialism-lite .....she did her thesis on Alinsky but drifted away ....... I believe another reason for Hillary and Bill campaigning for Senator Government is that ...... everyone thinks she had the goods on him ...... and she does ....... but they have the goods on Hillary and Bill also ...... much more damning than anything out there already ....... it would be too much for Hillary to be thought of as a socialist .....Bill could not stand for that ........ I do believe Hillary at least is less dangerous for America ...... like I said in a previous post ...... the dems are "all in" this election ...... they will destroy anything in their way ..... the economy .....people ..... anything ......

scary stuff

and with the house, senate and presidency tied up between them, they can really get totalitarian

358 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:11:54pm

re: #308 Cast Iron Magnolia USMC 1968 was an infrequent poster out here on LGF; by the time he discovered us his cancer was fairly advanced. His avatar was the Silver Star- the nation's third highest medal for Bravery in Combat and he fought in the Battle of Khe Sahn. He did his duty and served this Nation honorably and bravely.
We exchanged e-mails as we both are/were Vietnam Vets and both suffer(ed) from Prostate Cancer. He was in a considerable amount of pain towards the end, but I believe and trust that he is at peace now, and I pray that he is. He deserved at least that much.

359 Syrah  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:12:14pm

re: #162 Boy Hits Car

Man, I don't want to sound like an Obama supporter, but all these "uncoverings" or "connections" seem to parallel what the left did to Bush. Ie. Neocon, oil buddies, Haliburton, religious zealot, ignore the poor...

Turn it around and you have, New party, socialism, marxists, steal from the rich...

Just wondering if it's all a little too similar to the way Bush was unfairly criticized which turned into BDS, over-the-top hate and irrational conspiracy theories. Maybe we are all overreacting. Just thinking outloud.

Obama is associated with many unsavory people. His cabinet and his policies will be drawn from them and/or influenced by them.

A man can be judged by who he counts among his friends.

As for the man himself, not all of his speeches are mindless blatherings of empty platitudes and impossible promises. In one of them he reveals his core essence. It is a very important speech, one that you will want to listen to in its entirety, several times. It is that important, if you want to truly understand where that man is coming from.

360 notutopia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:12:29pm

re: #317 JacksonTn

UFO's always get drug up in the news whenever they run out of any other distraction to use.

361 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:12:53pm

re: #355 notutopia

Sharmuta, I got phone polled yesterday and I'm reg. as Indep.
The first question I asked, was, Who are you representing?
The answer, Campaign for Barack Obama. I hung up.
After reading Zombie post on his experience with his volunteer polling, I conclude, that I probably am also in the database now as well.
These people have invested lots of money to purchase voter databases and now will keep them updated on their findings.
I get at least one a day automated call from Obama campaigning on my message server.
But you know, I have NEVER been called by McCain/Palin campaigning or for a poll.

My neighbor was called by an Obama pollster and she told them she didn't have time to talk to them and hung up!

362 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:13:29pm

re: #347 itellu3times

Spread the wealth around,
Love the revolution!
Turn it upside down
Love the revolution!
Love to hear it, ...

/the obama sound machine

Ok, I can hear it in my head, the chicks singing it.

/don't know who recorded the original...

363 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:13:36pm

I honestly believe that Obama will be like Chavez. Less "brutal looking". Less "obvious", but basically the same thing.

He might not ban TV stations, but expect the Fairness Doctrine. Expect blogs like this to be harassed and suppressed.

364 wolfie  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:14:03pm

re: #354 laZardo

ROFL !
I guess I should have tried bread and fish, eh?
Cookies evidently don't work!

365 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:14:43pm

re: #349 wolfie

Good news and bad news.

The good news is that the people at a GOTV meeting we hosted tonight are pumped up and ready to go! Our chairman, who I had never met in person before, is a beautiful young woman in her early twenties, sharp as a tack and super-organized. We are gonna bring them bitter and clingy grannies out of them thar hills and down to the polls!

The bad news is that they ate all of the cookies I made. Not a crumb left over.

HEY! We wanted some of the left over cookies! Dammit....

:-(

366 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:15:08pm

re: #322 Intrepid Indeed they did not; iirc Sharmuta posted out here that PUMA's were instructing their members to say, if polled that they were Democrats and supporting Obama!

367 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:15:12pm

re: #341 gman

Dos anyone know anything about this "electoral fusion" that the New Party was involved in?

The way I am reading it is that certain states allow it and a candidate can appear on the ballot twice. Apparently, Obama appeared as the candidate for the New Party and for the Democratic Party.

368 rawmuse  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:15:56pm

re: #363 uptight

I honestly believe that Obama will be like Chavez. Less "brutal looking". Less "obvious", but basically the same thing.

He might not ban TV stations, but expect the Fairness Doctrine. Expect blogs like this to be harassed and suppressed.

I expect them to be shut down completely. Seriously. China does it.

369 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:16:00pm

Just got this email from Laura Ingraham, anyone hear if it's true?

Congratulations, Team Obama, we've still got two-plus weeks until Election Day and you're already destroying jobs. After last week's now-notorious encounter with Joe the Plumber, Obama's media foot soldiers were dispatched with a simple mission: destroy Joe. On Sunday's Fox and Friends, Joe announced their success; his business has been shut down.

Thanks to the intrepid reporting of journalists who've obviously lost all sense of perspective, it turns out Joe has been fixing Ohioans' plumbing without a government-issued license. Talk about irony. Joe came under fire for humiliating Obama by noting his tax plans interfere with Joe's American Dream. He wanted to buy his plumbing company and expand it, but higher taxes on small businesses threaten to turn that dream into a nightmare. The left, in other words, used Big Government to silence Joe Citizen for speaking ill of Big Government.

370 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:16:12pm

re: #358 realwest

Thank you for the info. I salute him.

371 Sharmuta  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:16:22pm
372 Killian Bundy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:16:41pm

Can't lose: Obama backs Rays, Phillies

Barack Obama, campaigning in the key swing state of Florida, is seeking to capitalize on the excitement over the World Series-bound Tampa Bay Rays, telling a Tampa crowd he was “showing some love for the Rays,” several members of which joined him onstage.

Only problem?

Obama, a self-avowed Chicago White Sox fan, declared his allegiance earlier this month for the Rays’ National League opponent in baseball’s championship, the Philadelphia Phillies.

On Oct. 11, Obama told a crowd in the City of Brotherly Love — the biggest city on the key swing state of Pennsylvania: “My White Sox are gone, so I’ll go ahead and root for the Phillies now.”

/you can't believe one [expletive deleted] word that comes out of his mouth

373 Spirit93  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:17:03pm

re: #355 notutopia

Sharmuta, I got phone polled yesterday and I'm reg. as Indep.
The first question I asked, was, Who are you representing?
The answer, Campaign for Barack Obama. I hung up.

Bad notutopia!
Next time, you keep them on the line as long as possible.
Or at least till you turn em. ;-)

374 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:17:11pm

re: #367 Pvt Bin Jammin

The way I am reading it is that certain states allow it and a candidate can appear on the ballot twice. Apparently, Obama appeared as the candidate for the New Party and for the Democratic Party.

I read that the NP died when it was ruled unconstitutional.

That's BamBam. Fusion cuisine and fusion politics.

375 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:17:41pm

There's no link on her website or the email.

376 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:18:25pm

re: #358 realwest

Thanks for the extra info, Realwest. I couldn't remember what battle he was in. Bless his heart, I will never forget him.

377 Syrah  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:18:50pm

re: #363 uptight

I honestly believe that Obama will be like Chavez. Less "brutal looking". Less "obvious", but basically the same thing.

He might not ban TV stations, but expect the Fairness Doctrine. Expect blogs like this to be harassed and suppressed.

It will all be done in the language niceness and with the back drops of smiley faces and unicorns with rainbows coming out of their asses.

Happy happy, smiley smiley.

378 nigella  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:18:53pm

By the way, I have visited some of Sharmuta's Puma websites. All in all they are pretty angry about Hillary's treatment by the MSM and also Sarah Palin's treatment.A pretty substantial group. All they want is a fair treatment for women. I appreciate their motives.

379 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:18:59pm

re: #322 Intrepid

Yet they didn't take into consideration the PUMA vote.

I can't quantify the PUMA vote, nor can I estimate to what extent the PUMAs are, or are not represented in ongoing polling.

But I will repeat what I opined right after the primaries. Namely that the Dem primary electorate (which admittedly isn't quite representative of the Dem voting public at large) was split roughly 50-50% for Obama/Clinton.

This is speculative, but if we assume that 1-in-25 of primary Hilary voters who otherwise "should" vote for Obama instead defects to McCain, and that the overall electorate is split roughly 50-50 McCain/Obama then that 1% of PUMA voters could be enough to tip the contest towards Obama.

It could be a stronger effect if (as some suspect) Obama took some of the primaries fraudulently, ie Clinton support was essentially under-represented.

It could also be a stronger effect if the PUMAs are more concentrated in the swing states. This is actually likely true, as I recall that Obama actually did poorly in the usual swing states during the primaries.

380 uptight  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:19:27pm

The polling has already started?

I guess they need the extra days to allow all those deceased, underaged, incarcerated, multiple and fictional ACORN voters time to cast their ballots.

Expect a 400% turnout this year.

381 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:19:32pm

re: #372 Killian Bundy

Can't lose: Obama backs Rays, Phillies

/you can't believe one [expletive deleted] word that comes out of his mouth

Fucking?

382 abolitionist  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:19:42pm

Someone had a link here a day or so ago to this image, or by which I found it.
[Link: 2.bp.blogspot.com...]

"Winners! NP-endorsed candidates Patricia Martin (far left), Danny Davis (center), and Barack Obama (far right), celebrate with Chicago New Party members Ted Thomas and Ruth Schools after their victories in the Democratic Primary last month."

(Bolding of original altered here.)

383 Cartman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:20:17pm

re: #358 realwest

When/how did you hear the news regarding USMC 1968's passing, R-Dubs?

384 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:20:22pm

re: #335 Intrepid

I wondered the same thing, nigella. If she was so sick back last week and has only been discharged from the hospital now, why wouldn't he have been by her side when she was at the hospital? And why wouldn't Michelle and the girls go with him?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't speak well for him.

I have to say I don't know about this one. We don't know how sick his grandmother is; we don't know if she suddenly took a turn for the worse and I'm sure that Obama didn't feel he could back out of or put off the last debate because of her illness without looking suspicious.
I'm thinking his grandmother is very sick and hope I'm wrong. If she is very sick, then it was very important for him to be by her side. Michelle and the children I don't know; don't know what relationship they really had with her.
I'm for giving Obama a pass on this and presuming it is what he said.
And wishing his grandmother the best.

385 JacksonTn  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:20:43pm

I think this Bernanke endorsement at this time in our country ..... is the slime coming to the surface ........it is way worse in my opinion than Colin Powell ....

386 anotherindyfilmguy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:21:03pm

And yet the Truth, no matter how well documented, will simply be dismissed as a smear by people who actively want to see the U.S. destroyed from the inside to dupe the ignorant into following them over the cliff.

Opinion/gut feeling:

Obamassieh is the culmination of a very long preparation to try and unhinge this country, overload it by clogging the system that has worked so well and bring about radical change in which one party rules all. The Dems who have led us down the path with lies about sallie mae/freddie mac and virtually everything else would have everyone believe it's all Bushes fault, all the Republicans fault and the MSM is their 5th column mouthpiece feeding the ignorant masses and duping those who don't have the time or inclination to fact check the Truth on their own.

If the O wins and the Dems take a supermajority it will not be a bumpy four years, it will be the beginning of the Socialist States of North America... this will lead to either a coup to remove them all at once or the shooting phase of the second civil war we've been embroiled in to varying degrees ever since the Communists decided to actively undermine the US so many generations ago. The "Culture War" will have consequences and they will not be good if the war is conceded. Ask the Germans who thought they could control Hitler how well that turned out...

On the other hand, imo, the US in general has a good BS detector and has a natural negative reaction to what has been going on for the last several decades. If not Bushjr would never have served two terms and Clinton, the one supposedly confirmed to be male by so many lawsuits, would have been able to have forced through an amendment to allow himself more terms of office ala FDR. I think this will be the largest landslide election for Republicans, at least for POTUS, and possibly the real beginning of the Dem party splitting into major factions that literally become newer names that just can't get along. If this split means that there will be pushes for changes in how "third party" candidates can become registered for all levels of governance then that's all the better as far as I'm concerned.
So... I call landslide McCain and only God knows what for the House/Senate.

387 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:21:32pm

Just got a BSOD. About 10 minutes ago.

388 laZardo  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:22:06pm

re: #369 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

He wasn't really a plumber anyway, and props to the proud heroes of liberty who would squash any Bush-Cheneyist attempt to distract us from the real issues!

///////////////

389 Gorgon Zola  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:22:15pm

enjoy commenting now,Lizards, while you can,,when President Government rules you will be speaking into an empty barrel that echoes but will not be heard beyond your own back yard,,

390 Cast Iron Magnolia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:22:54pm

re: #385 JacksonTn

I think this Bernanke endorsement at this time in our country ..... is the slime coming to the surface ........it is way worse in my opinion than Colin Powell ....

Actually, I hope all the cockroaches come out - that way it'll be easier to get rid of them when the Republicans take back the government.

They're all just wanting to get on the Obama bandwagon and get jobs in his administration. Little do they know that his wagon's gonna crash.

391 rawmuse  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:09pm

re: #387 Gus 802

What is that, please?

392 looking closely  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:12pm

re: #379 looking closely


This is speculative, but if we assume that 1-in-25 of primary Hilary voters who otherwise "should" vote for Obama instead defects to McCain, and that the overall electorate is split roughly 50-50 McCain/Obama then that 1% of PUMA voters could be enough to tip the contest towards Obama.


Sorry.
I meant that if 1-in-25 likely Hilary voters defect to McCain the contest could tip to McCain.

393 Intrepid  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:17pm

re: #379 looking closely

So you're saying that the PUMA vote would weigh heavily in Obama's numbers?

? Don't understand what you're saying.

394 Cartman  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:18pm

re: #385 JacksonTn

I think this Bernanke endorsement at this time in our country ..... is the slime coming to the surface ........it is way worse in my opinion than Colin Powell ....


They are all bought and paid for, in one manner or another.

395 Syrah  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:41pm

re: #387 Gus 802

Just got a BSOD. About 10 minutes ago.

What OS?

396 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:46pm

re: #385 JacksonTn

I think this Bernanke endorsement at this time in our country ..... is the slime coming to the surface ........it is way worse in my opinion than Colin Powell ....

If I remember correctly, and I think I do, Federal Reserve Chairman are appointed by the President, and have to be approved by Congress, and cannot be fired, regardless of what President appointed them.

397 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:50pm

re: #380 uptight

The polling has already started?

I guess they need the extra days to allow all those deceased, underaged, incarcerated, multiple and fictional ACORN voters time to cast their ballots.

Expect a 400% turnout this year.

And expect riots when they get caught. After which I expect the Chicago rioters to find out what Mayor Daley really thinks of them. He'll emulate his father is my bet, deploying the riot squads and having lefties pounded.

398 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:23:54pm

re: #391 rawmuse

Blue Screen of Death. When the computer crashes and you get the blue screen.

399 JohnAdams  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:24:00pm

re: #385 JacksonTn

I think this Bernanke endorsement at this time in our country ..... is the slime coming to the surface ........it is way worse in my opinion than Colin Powell ....

The Fed Chairman, even in good times, is supposed to stay the out of it. This guy is an unprecedented disaster in a very powerful position at a time of crisis. Bush should fire his ass tomorrow.

400 capitalist piglet  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:24:02pm

re: #223 uptight

it's on here as well

but it looks like this information has come out before...I guess the mainstream media doesn't think it newsworthy that the likely next president of the US was a member of an offshoot of the Socialist International!

Dan Quayle spelled potato incorrectly. That was newsworthy. Joe didn't get all his plumbing qualifications yet. That was newsworthy. Obama being a member of a Socialist Party? Who cares!?

As an aside: I read or saw somewhere, long ago, that Quayle initially spelled it correctly, but was "corrected" by a whisper in his ear by someone else who was there...and the rest is history.

Has anyone else heard that story? I'm trying to remember who told it - it was someone who was traveling with him, and they told it long after he and the word "potato" became inseparable. I wouldn't doubt for a second that there always was a back-story to that incident, and that it was deliberately advanced erroneously by the media. Disputing it would have made him look ridiculous. There was just no way for him to win.

401 Gus 802  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:24:11pm

re: #395 Syrah


XP SP3

402 Syrah  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:25:11pm

re: #391 rawmuse

BSOD Blue Screen of Death.

A windows "feature" that lets you know that everything just went to hell in a hand basket on your system.

403 realwest  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:25:14pm

re: #338 Intrepid With respect, I'm not a loser, sore or any other way, period. McCain is gonna win and if he doesn't then I'm gonna be awfully effin' suspicious of every Democrat that ACORN registered in Ohio and Florida and even here in North Carolina where they are currently being investigated. Indeed, iirc ACORN is being investigated for voter fraud in Ohio, PA, NM, Colorado, Texas, Florida and 9 other states. Those first six states I identified are considered "battleground states" and ACORN is spending a huge amount of time and money registering what I believe are largely fraudulent voters.

404 anotherindyfilmguy  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:25:36pm

OT note about "polls"...
My 75 year old Mother has had several calls asking her how she is voting. This would be a non-interesting thing except that when I asked her if they said they were conducting a poll she said that they had never mentioned that part, they just started asking questions and that the questioning ended shortly of she'd say "McCain"... (and was asked if she really was voting for McCain etc... she's a PUMA even though I'd have to explain to her what PUMA means)
This just makes me wonder if some of these poll workers are cherry picking answers since they don't get into the other local/state stuff as well.

Night all.

405 Syrah  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:26:05pm

re: #401 Gus 802

XP SP3

Are you running an AMD or an Intel System?

406 notutopia  Mon, Oct 20, 2008 9:26:26pm

re: #358 realwest

Thanks for the bio realwest. I had wondered about him as well.
God Bless him.
And God bless you. Thank you for your service and sacrifice for helping to protect our great country!

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