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Tuesday Afternoon Open

Open | Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:49:45 pm PDT

Just another midday open thread...

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769 comments

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1 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:50:43pm

Greetings from Miami Airport.

(groan)

2 Eowyn2  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:51:20pm

at lunch time, big brown pickup drove by and honked (have no idea who it was) but the tailgate was one big NOBAMA sign

i think it was one of my son's friends

3 CynicalConservative  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:51:22pm

re: #1 Occasional Reader

Greetings from Miami Airport.

(groan)

Is Obama there too?

4 opnion  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:51:58pm

As long as we were discussing Sarah Palin on the last thread, she came in second in the Miss Alaska Pagent. I just wonder what the winner must look like.

5 Eowyn2  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:52:03pm

re: #1 Occasional Reader


greetings.
how is the construction of the SE lizard cave going? Anyone suspicious yet

6 thedude  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:52:12pm

greetings from Austin...BHO country...: (

7 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:52:24pm

re: #1 Occasional Reader

Ah, the joys of travel. Remember when they used to serve food on the plane and there was always a chance of an empty seat next to you?

8 opnion  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:52:42pm

re: #3 CynicalConservative

Is Obama there too?

He's everywhere.

9 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:52:47pm

Hoax anthrax letters sent to 30 US banks.

So everyone who's been inveighing against "Wall Street greed" will be blamed for this, right?

[crickets]

10 Chris in Toronto  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:53:04pm

I’ve got a piece up about Powell’s endorsement of Obama. It’s long, so here’s a teaser and the link:

“Our metaphoric John Galts are speaking up!

On politico, of all places, there is a rough 60/40 “pro-McCain” opinion split (as judged by me, dammit after reading the first 100 comments) calling a big “bullsh*t” on Powell’s statement that his decision has nothing to do with race.

My first instinct, too, was to call this bullsh*t.

Thinking a bit harder about it though opens some interesting lines of thought. If we examine our list of assumptions about Colin Powell, what explains a political calculus that ends up with an Obama endorsement? ”

For the rest:
http://web.me.com/chris_nicholson/Site/desmondiswa tching/Entries/2008/10/20_John_Galt_and_Colin_Powe ll.html

11 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:53:29pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Ah, the joys of travel. Remember when they used to serve food on the plane and there was always a chance of an empty seat next to you?

I actually had an empty exit row seat next to me on the way here. A miracle.

12 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:53:31pm

Is anyone else listening to Mark Levin? It's been straight commercials since the half hour, so that 23 minutes so far.

13 Silhouette  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:53:32pm

Midday? Where is it noon? Is Charles in Hawaii?

14 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:54:09pm

Damn, NBC Nightly News just trotted out and took ten minutes explaining their own shameless propaganda poll. It seems Lord President For Life Obama has an insurmountable ten point lead, wipes out McCain in every internal category, and Sarah Palin is bad, very bad, no one likes her.

/oh and the Bonkeys will get a veto proof Senate for sure, Republicans may as well just give up now, because this election is obviously over

15 Eowyn2  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:54:15pm

re: #4 opnion

As long as we were discussing Sarah Palin on the last thread, she came in second in the Miss Alaska Pagent. I just wonder what the winner must look like.

you have to understand the way these pageants work. Jane Doe might have been born and raised in Atlanta but she can still enter Delaware's pageant if she is in school there for x many months or something. Many of the women who win state pageants are professional pageant partakers.

16 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:54:31pm

re: #8 opnion

He's everywhere.

Exactly. That's what schoolchildren may be taught circa 2010:

"Where is Obama?"

Obama is everywhere.

17 joekowalski247  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:54:58pm

re: #13 Silhouette

Midday? Where is it noon? Is Charles in Hawaii?

he's windsurfing with barak and john kerry

18 Silhouette  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:55:04pm

re: #15 Eowyn2

you have to understand the way these pageants work. Jane Doe might have been born and raised in Atlanta but she can still enter Delaware's pageant if she is in school there for x many months or something. Many of the women who win state pageants are professional pageant partakers.

Kinda like Hillary going to NY to run for senate.

19 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:55:04pm

re: #12 jemima

Is anyone else listening to Mark Levin? It's been straight commercials since the half hour, so that 23 minutes so far.

One of the reasons I just can't listen to conservative radio.

20 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:55:19pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

Wow, impressive. Buy a lottery ticket, maybe it's your luck day.

21 Eowyn2  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:11pm

re: #18 Silhouette

Kinda like Hillary going to NY to run for senate.


bingo!

22 opnion  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:12pm

re: #16 Occasional Reader

Exactly. That's what schoolchildren may be taught circa 2010:

"Where is Obama?"

Obama is everywhere.

They sing of him now! Very creepy.

23 jamie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:23pm

A slew of pretty ominous polls out today...

NBC/Wall St. Journal
Obama 52
McCain 42

Pew Research
Obama 52
McCain 38

ABC/Washington Post
Obama 53
McCain 44

So if you assume that these polls are at least close to accurate, what do you do as the RNC? Go all out for McCain in the hopes that if you win or at least narrow the gap, that will lift up Congressional GOPers? Or do you cut McCain loose and make sure to save the filibuster?

24 Dianna  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:28pm

For a wonder, I appear to be safely online. Still. After a couple reboots, even.

Now, I take my leave.

Take care, lizards!

25 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:28pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Wow, impressive. Buy a lottery ticket, maybe it's your luck day.

Nah, I was also on the waitlist for an upgrade, and didn't get it. So my luck could be better.

26 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:37pm

#19

I wonder if ABC just turned him off while he was hitting Barack Milhous Nobama pretty hard.

27 Eowyn2  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:56:58pm

re: #16 Occasional Reader

Exactly. That's what schoolchildren may be taught circa 2010:

"Where is Obama?"

Obama is everywhere.

will he be wearing a Waldo hat?

28 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:57:07pm

re: #23 jamie

10 point difference? I have a hard time buying that.

29 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:58:00pm

re: #23 jamie

A slew of pretty ominous polls out today...

NBC/Wall St. Journal
Obama 52
McCain 42

Pew Research
Obama 52
McCain 38

ABC/Washington Post
Obama 53
McCain 44

So if you assume that these polls are at least close to accurate, what do you do as the RNC? Go all out for McCain in the hopes that if you win or at least narrow the gap, that will lift up Congressional GOPers? Or do you cut McCain loose and make sure to save the filibuster?

/Bush was down by 11 at this time four years ago

30 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:58:18pm

I'm surprised anyone here pays any attention to the polls since they are oversampling dems to begin with.

31 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:58:32pm
32 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:58:40pm
After the Biden "international crisis" comment, Albright's "statement of fact" remark and Franks yapping about raising taxes, I am starting to wonder if they are trying to warn the public, sort of send up flares. I thought Jesse Jackson's zionist comments in Evian was peculiar, why would he telegraph a policy that would scare away many voters? But it makes sense if these people are a bit afraid of Obama too and need to "get the word out" without seemeing to deliberately undermine him.

They may want to look supportive so they don't reap the negative whirlwind of going against Obama.

All these policy gaffes are either sabotage or severe overconfidence

Since I killed the last thread, I brought this along from it

33 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:59:01pm

re: #23 jamie

I haven't been following the congressional and senate races but I don't think there's much chance of the GOP retaining their filibuster. They just have to circle the wagons and hope for the best until 2010 midterms I guess.

34 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:59:48pm

#32

Why would they warn us? We're useless eaters. The deader the better.

35 Soona'  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:59:52pm

re: #16 Occasional Reader

Exactly. That's what schoolchildren may be taught circa 2010:

"Where is Obama?"

Obama is everywhere.

{...as they raise their hands to the sky.}

36 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 3:59:57pm

Hillbuzz finally linked directly to LGF.

37 thedude  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:00:03pm

anyone print up a couple of the Sarah posters from the earlier posting on LGF and glue them up at your favorite BHO hangouts?...someone needs to do a photoshop of the poster and replace the despicable image of Sarah with BHO...

38 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:00:03pm

re: #26 jemima

#19

I wonder if ABC just turned him off while he was hitting Barack Milhous Nobama pretty hard.

I suspect they lost the feed on his end (or your local station lost the feed). Either way, your local station will try to fill with commercials until they can get the feed back.

They may go to tape (well, really digital now a days) soon if they can't get the feed. Repeat of something.

39 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:00:18pm

re: #24 Dianna

For a wonder, I appear to be safely online.

How do you know you're safely online?

Something may be crouching inside your monitor, waiting to spring, at this very moment.

40 Jamie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:00:52pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I haven't been following the congressional and senate races but I don't think there's much chance of the GOP retaining their filibuster. They just have to circle the wagons and hope for the best until 2010 midterms I guess.

Really? Everything I've seen says best case scenario for the Dems is 59, and that's if they keep every lead that's currently w/in the margin of error.

41 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:00:55pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I haven't been following the congressional and senate races but I don't think there's much chance of the GOP retaining their filibuster. They just have to circle the wagons and hope for the best until 2010 midterms I guess.

We don't need any of that conceding around here!
/

42 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:01:18pm

re: #36 Sharmuta

Hillbuzz finally linked directly to LGF.

Ah the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It will be a pleasure having Hillary to run against in 2012. Compared to Obama she is surely a rose

43 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:01:28pm

#38

Hi Walter. ABC is the flagship station, that's what I'm listening to via the net.

44 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:01:36pm

re: #29 Killian Bundy

/Bush was down by 11 at this time four years ago


Not True The polls were pretty close to accurate.

45 Jamie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:01:45pm

re: #29 Killian Bundy

/Bush was down by 11 at this time four years ago

I don't think that's true. If I remember correctly, he was up or tied at this point.

46 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:01:58pm

re: #43 jemima

#38

Hi Walter. ABC is the flagship station, that's what I'm listening to via the net.

So, you are getting commercials from ABC?

47 DisgustingOratory  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:01pm

Guys, make sure you don't refer to Obama as "socialist". It has been determined this is racist.

[Link: voices.kansascity.com...]

48 Globular Cluster  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:09pm

Has anyone seen American Carol? Is it actually good?

49 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:15pm

re: #39 Occasional Reader

How do you know you're safely online?

Something may be crouching inside your monitor, waiting to spring, at this very moment.

I think something is crouching inside my computer at home. I have to delete the same files every time I start up. Wish I could afford more anti-spyware.
(Where's my free government PC health insurance, anyway?/)

50 Silhouette  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:21pm

re: #30 jemima

Speaking of airports, I picked up the latest biography of Daniel Boone, and it relates what it considers to be a false story about Boone's daughter Jemima, but funny nonetheless.

It seems Daniel had been gone extra-long this time, about two years, and when he came home, Rebecca had a new baby. He asked whose it was and she said his brother's. He said not to worry about it, he had Indian wives and the kid was a Boone anyway.

51 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:35pm

re: #41 Walter L. Newton


We don't need any of that conceding around here!
/


I conceed.
/

52 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:56pm

#46

Yes, WABC in NYC had about 25 min. of commercials straight, no Mark at all. He's back now with no explanation.

53 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:02:57pm

re: #4 opnion

As long as we were discussing Sarah Palin on the last thread, she came in second in the Miss Alaska Pagent. I just wonder what the winner must look like.

She is an Obama suppoter.

54 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:03pm

Forget the Dems, or even the Go'auld. Here come the Replicators.

55 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:04pm

Anyone have any opinions on the major international crisis?

I know we had a thread about Bolton's response, but what caught my attention was this being repeated by 2 former SOS's, and Powell suggested, January 21st or 22nd.

Both parties had have just recently met with the administration, something Bush signed by executive order (the Presidential Transition Coordinating Council) which no doubt leaves me to think some pretty good intel, or assessment has been divulged.

I don't know about anyone else, but this seems pretty insidious to me.

56 joekowalski247  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:32pm

"The Government is a group of people largely ungoverned"
-Firefly was a good show-

57 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:32pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Not True The polls were pretty close to accurate.

Was it Gore?

58 wolfie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:32pm

re: #31 Occasional Reader

All that gun-control lgislation sure has helped Mexico !

/

59 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:42pm

re: #42 SpartanWoman

Ah the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It will be a pleasure having Hillary to run against in 2012. Compared to Obama she is surely a rose

Could not agree more. I said it last night: Obama makes Hill look competent and personable.

60 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:03:49pm

re: #48 Globular Cluster

Has anyone seen American Carol? Is it actually good?

No, but I am sitting here waiting for a lady to call and let me know she is done with her IRS audit.

We are suppose to go on our "first date" tonight and that's what we are going to see.

Unless she is too bummed out about the audit (or the IRS puts her in prison).

61 Soona'  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:04:39pm

re: #45 Jamie

I don't think that's true. If I remember correctly, he was up or tied at this point.

Look at these polls. They're MSM polls. What do you expect?

62 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:04:50pm

re: #50 Silhouette

Speaking of airports, I picked up the latest biography of Daniel Boone,

Did he spend a lot of time in airports?

63 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:05:14pm

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

No, but I am sitting here waiting for a lady to call and let me know she is done with her IRS audit.

We are suppose to go on our "first date" tonight and that's what we are going to see.

Unless she is too bummed out about the audit (or the IRS puts her in prison).

Shit after an IRS audit, there is almost nothing you could do that isn't an improvement!

64 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:05:17pm

#50

Yikes!

Ol Dan was pretty understanding. Of course, I'm not sure I would have been so jolly about Dan and his squaws.

65 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:05:29pm

re: #62 Occasional Reader

Did he spend a lot of time in airports?

Only when he was visiting the East Coast.

66 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:05:35pm

re: #40 Jamie

RCP sez....

(Senate - 51 D*, 49 R) (House - 235D, 199R, 1v**)

At what point do they lose the filibuster?

67 bosforus  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:05:49pm

re: #61 Soona'

Look at these polls. They're MSM polls. What do you expect?

They're not polls. They're poLLLs.

68 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:06:12pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

RCP sez....

At what point do they lose the filibuster?

We need 40 senators.

69 Occasional Reader  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:06:24pm

On to the next flight.

Behave, y'all.

70 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:06:29pm

re: #61 Soona'

Look at these polls. They're MSM polls. What do you expect?

The MSM was much less biased in 2004. The level of rage against Palin is unprecedented, IMO

71 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:07:06pm

re: #23 jamie

Interestingly enough, you can't get to the pdf of the NBC poll to look at the internal numbers.

What is fascinating though is McCain's whopping lead in the ABC poll of people who have previously voted. Looking further, you see of likely voters in this poll, the vast majority of them are not first time voters.

Basically- you can't take these polls at face value. You have to look deeper. When they are polling two to three times as many democrats as they should be, it throws the entire poll off.

72 Silhouette  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:07:16pm

re: #62 Occasional Reader

Did he spend a lot of time in airports?

Missing the all important clause, "I picked up the latest biography of Daniel Boone in the airport last week."

Dagnabit, I knew what I meant. Why couldn't you?

73 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:07:20pm

arethusa's poll average (because I'm sick of RCP throwing into their average once-weekly polls that are RV only or presume unrealistic partisan splits or voter turnout and aren't nearly as good as the daily polls):

Rasmussen Reports Obama +4*
Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby Obama +8
Hotline/FD 10/18 - 10/20 Obama +6
Gallup (Traditional) Obama +7
IBD/TIPP 10/16 - 10/20 Obama +6*
GWU/Battleground Obama +1*

Starred polls are within the margin of error.

Average: Obama +5.3

There, that made me feel better.

74 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:07:41pm

re: #57 Killian Bundy

Was it Gore?

Nope, The polls were pretty accurate in 200 as well.

75 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:07:47pm

re: #70 SpartanWoman

The MSM was much less biased in 2004. The level of rage against Palin is unprecedented, IMO

Not only rage but irrational,ignorant, and uneducated rage!

76 Silhouette  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:08:17pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Nope, The polls were pretty accurate in 200 as well.

I'm betting the Romans won.

77 Dianna  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:08:18pm

re: #39 Occasional Reader

How do you know you're safely online?

Something may be crouching inside your monitor, waiting to spring, at this very moment.

Thank you sooooo much for that happy thought. If, tomorrow morning, I can't get online, I shall blame you.

78 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:08:38pm

William McGurn makes a nifty point about Obama's tax "plan":

In most parts of America, getting money back on taxes you haven't paid sounds a lot like welfare. Ah, say the Obama people, you forget: Even those who pay no income taxes pay payroll taxes for Social Security. Under the Obama plan, they say, these Americans would get an income tax credit up to $500 based on what they are paying into Social Security.

Just two little questions: If people are going to get a tax refund based on what they pay into Social Security, then we're not really talking about income tax relief, are we? And if what we're really talking about is payroll tax relief, doesn't that mean billions of dollars in lost revenue for a Social Security trust fund that is already badly underfinanced?

[Link: online.wsj.com...]


It's all part of the Obama sleight of hand called "Making Work Pay," which, ironically enough, will do quite the opposite.

79 gmsc  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:09:04pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Nope, The polls were pretty accurate in 200 as well.

Considering when modern statistical methods were developed, I'd say the polls were actually less accurate 1800 years ago.

80 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:09:44pm

re: #55 formercorpsman

Anyone have any opinions on the major international crisis?

I know we had a thread about Bolton's response, but what caught my attention was this being repeated by 2 former SOS's, and Powell suggested, January 21st or 22nd.

Both parties had have just recently met with the administration, something Bush signed by executive order (the Presidential Transition Coordinating Council) which no doubt leaves me to think some pretty good intel, or assessment has been divulged.

I don't know about anyone else, but this seems pretty insidious to me.

I'd bet my money on the iranians - with help from Russia.

81 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:10:14pm

re: #68 nikis-knight

I just noticed that the RCP list is prioritized by "likelihood to switch party". Ouch.

82 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:10:52pm

Has anyone noticed what a crock CNN's poll of polls is? They always pick the four that are most favorable to Obama. Today their poll of polls was 9, higher than even RCP.

83 wolfie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:10:52pm

re: #48 Globular Cluster

Has anyone seen American Carol? Is it actually good?

Mediocre, but worth seeing. It has some highly amusing moments.

84 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:11:01pm

re: #79 gmsc

Considering when modern statistical methods were developed, I'd say the polls were actually less accurate 1800 years ago.

Not so sure about since the only one voting was usually the Emperor, how much of a math genius did you have to be to tabulate the likely results?

85 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:11:04pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Ah, the joys of travel. Remember when they used to serve food on the plane and there was always a chance of an empty seat next to you?

Some airlines still serve food. Except, it isn't anything you'd want to eat.

86 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:11:23pm

re: #76 Silhouette

Ha!

87 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:11:31pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

I just can't believe Franken is up in polls. Name recognition can't really be everything, can it?

88 Outrider  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:11:53pm

re: #2 Eowyn2

at lunch time, big brown pickup drove by and honked (have no idea who it was) but the tailgate was one big NOBAMA sign

i think it was one of my son's friends

Love it when that happens! That is one of the reasons I put campaign signs out.

89 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:12:11pm

Good Evening LGF.

John, stop these robo-ads!
John, stop discussing Barack's character!
- Biden speech

Sure Joe, no problem.

90 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:12:13pm

re: #85 David Simon

Some airlines still serve food. Except, it isn't anything you'd want to eat.

If I like airline food, is that something I should worry about?

91 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:12:32pm

Okay, it was Bush that was up with two weeks to go in 2004.

/didn't turn out that way

92 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:13:01pm

re: #85 David Simon

After my flight back from Africa last month I've been thinking about telling the airlines that I'm not allowed within 20 yards of minors. I wonder if that would work?

93 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:13:18pm

Want a bit of Sarah Palin thumping Joe Six Term?

Obama's 5th crisis is priceless

94 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:13:31pm

re: #87 nikis-knight

Ask Arnold or Jesse Ventura.

95 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:13:59pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

After my flight back from Africa last month I've been thinking about telling the airlines that I'm not allowed within 20 yards of minors. I wonder if that would work?

Yeah, like they'd give a shit about kids and other living creatures?

96 spidly  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:02pm

well, balls

Fox News' Brit Hume signs off on top
12:01a ET October 20, 2008 (MarketWatch)
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Fox News Channel anchor Brit Hume, who has announced his retirement from television news after three decades, concedes that not even he can always get it right.

Hume, who has been covering presidential races since the 1970s, noted that he shrugged off all of the parlor-game talk before John McCain named his running mate on Aug. 29.

"It wouldn't make a particle of difference," Hume recalled thinking at the time. "The least interesting question of the year was who John McCain would choose."

Famous last words. Enter charismatic Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and overnight, all bets were off as Palinmania initially swept the nation.

97 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:15pm

Mr DT just had a horrendous flight on United. He was in the middle seat, last row - so it didn't recline - on a red eye. He's 6'2" - and had the guy ahead of him reclined practically in his lap.

The stewardess apologized for the seat, said she couldn't switch him - but she could offer him free drinks.

I told him he should have announced that he'd pay $50 to change seats with someone.

98 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:17pm

re: #80 DistantThunder

Why?

Do you have any specific assumptions?

99 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:19pm

re: #87 nikis-knight

I just can't believe Franken is up in polls. Name recognition can't really be everything, can it?

He was only up 3 in today's Minnesota Poll. Within the MOE. And the poll noticed that a good deal of the Independent candidate's support might desert him. I only hope they desert him for Coleman, not Franken.

Someone said a few months back that the bitterest pill we might have to swallow on Election Night would be Al Franken's elevation to the US Senate. Bleah.

100 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:25pm

re: #90 Nevergiveup

If I like airline food, is that something I should worry about?

Nope, having low standards can be a great thing. You're smiling when others are grimacing.
Of course, that doesn't apply to everything.

101 Outrider  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:34pm

re: #16 Occasional Reader

Exactly. That's what schoolchildren may be taught circa 2010:

"Where is Obama?"

Obama is everywhere.

I'd like to hear ten years from now, "Whatever happened to that Obama guy?"

102 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:34pm

re: #87 nikis-knight

I just can't believe Franken is up in polls. Name recognition can't really be everything, can it?

REally stupid people deserve what they get.

103 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:14:51pm

re: #91 Killian Bundy

Yeah, the thing about the polls being wrong is an urban myth going around. I've seen a few conservative pundits repeating it.

104 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:15:08pm

re: #67 bosforus

They're not polls. They're poLLLs.

Rush was saying today that the purpose of these poLLLs put out by the drive bys is to make us feel demoralized.

105 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:15:34pm

re: #98 formercorpsman

Why?

Do you have any specific assumptions?

Just thinking about this Somali hijacking of the Iranian boat that made the pirates sick. I think it was dirty...

106 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:15:34pm

re: #90 Nevergiveup

If I like airline food, is that something I should worry about?

Nope. Find out whatever it is that makes you like it and patent it.

107 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:14pm

Polls all come down to the weighing they employ, and they admit to doing it.

108 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:17pm

re: #23 jamie

A slew of pretty ominous polls out today...

So if you assume that these polls are at least close to accurate, what do you do as the RNC? Go all out for McCain in the hopes that if you win or at least narrow the gap, that will lift up Congressional GOPers? Or do you cut McCain loose and make sure to save the filibuster?


Why you assume the polls are even close to accurate?

In terms of party strategy, like any campaign, you concentrate your resources where you believe they will be most effective.

109 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:17pm

re: #4 opnion

As long as we were discussing Sarah Palin on the last thread, she came in second in the Miss Alaska Pagent. I just wonder what the winner must look like.

Yeah, but she got Miss Congeniality.

110 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:24pm

re: #97 DistantThunder

Mr DT just had a horrendous flight on United. He was in the middle seat, last row - so it didn't recline - on a red eye. He's 6'2" - and had the guy ahead of him reclined practically in his lap.

The stewardess apologized for the seat, said she couldn't switch him - but she could offer him free drinks.

I told him he should have announced that he'd pay $50 to change seats with someone.

I don't fly much, but I'm 6'6" and the guy/gal in front of me always reclines their seat at some point. Even though it is touching my knees to begin with.

111 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:29pm

heh ... a lady from the alphabet soups in DC who has been trying to get me to read Kos for years now just sent this ...
------
Bob - Thanks for sending me this......

Nobama, Nobama, Nobama..............
-------
I had sent her this "The comprehensive argument against Barack Obama" earlier.

112 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:32pm

re: #90 Nevergiveup

If I like airline food, is that something I should worry about?

I like it too. I figure that equips us well for a potential Obama administration. :-)

113 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:34pm

re: #104 jetprop

Rush was saying today that the purpose of these poLLLs put out by the drive bys is to make us feel demoralized.

And he's right.

114 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:16:51pm

Hey, Lizards

My personal up-to-the-minute MAGNOLIA poll:

McCain 1
Obama 0

McCain up by 1 !

115 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:17:09pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the thing about the polls being wrong is an urban myth going around. I've seen a few conservative pundits repeating it.

But people don't understand why the oversampling of Democrats to Republicans and if it is based on ratio of number of democrats registered to number of republicans - and a massive amount of fraudulent votes have been submited as democrats, not to mention the people who re-registered during operation Chaos as democrats - it would skew the polls.

116 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:17:21pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

After my flight back from Africa last month I've been thinking about telling the airlines that I'm not allowed within 20 yards of minors. I wonder if that would work?

Not as well as investing in a good set of noise-cancelling headphones.

How was your trip, by the way? Safari, or something else?

117 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:17:24pm

re: #111 Bobibutu

You flipped an 0bamabot?

118 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:17:40pm

re: #90 Nevergiveup

If I like airline food, is that something I should worry about?

Your mother-in-law must be a great cook.

119 jeremy0114  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:18pm

Well, as long as I am not crossing an ocean, my flight usually leaves when I tell it to, and the only kids on it are my own! And the food? "Where do you want to land for lunch, honey?"

Unless, of course, I have to sell it next year to fulfill my obligation to the poor people in this country who want the American dream too... MY AMERICAN DREAM!

120 Soona'  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:24pm

re: #102 DistantThunder

REally stupid people deserve what they get.

Yea, but the position in question (senate) could spread the stupid all over everyone.

121 Adrenalyn  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:25pm

re: #23 jamie

A slew of pretty ominous polls out today...

NBC/Wall St. Journal
Obama 52
McCain 42

Pew Research
Obama 52
McCain 38

ABC/Washington Post
Obama 53
McCain 44

So if you assume that these polls are at least close to accurate, what do you do as the RNC? Go all out for McCain in the hopes that if you win or at least narrow the gap, that will lift up Congressional GOPers? Or do you cut McCain loose and make sure to save the filibuster?

but if they are polling the 510 area code this is a bullshit poll
as all are

it's not the number of people you poll
it is the area code you poll

poll the 530 area code for a change, pollster assholes and see what you get

122 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:27pm

re: #105 DistantThunder

With respect to that incident, do you think Israel could have had a hand in encouraging the hijackers in that scenario?

When you think about it, it would a superb CO, and not totally off the mark when you consider it was a Nork ship they were following that resulted in the Syrian affair.

123 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:43pm

re: #55 formercorpsman

Anyone have any opinions on the major international crisis?


Its probably that the Bush administration has intel about a planned attack on Iran by Israel in the case of an Obama win.

Israel simply can't trust Obama (who doesn't even understand the Jerusalem as capital issue and wants to renege on NAFTA) to do the right thing.

So again, for all his juvenile rhetoric about "unconditional face to face meetings" and "talking with our enemies" electing Obama **INCREASES** the chance of a war with Iran, not decreases it.

124 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:50pm

re: #115 DistantThunder

But people don't understand why the oversampling of Democrats to Republicans and if it is based on ratio of number of democrats registered to number of republicans - and a massive amount of fraudulent votes have been submited as democrats, not to mention the people who re-registered during operation Chaos as democrats - it would skew the polls.

I meant to say a massive number of fraudulent registrations have been submitted it would alter the ratios.

125 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:18:58pm

re: #97 DistantThunder

Mr DT just had a horrendous flight on United. He was in the middle seat, last row - so it didn't recline - on a red eye. He's 6'2" - and had the guy ahead of him reclined practically in his lap.

The stewardess apologized for the seat, said she couldn't switch him - but she could offer him free drinks.

I told him he should have announced that he'd pay $50 to change seats with someone.

I hear ya DT been there done that..
But really..after 9-11 the 50 dollar offer is off limits..
We have all had bad flight.I've got some whoopers to tell you..
You have mr. DT safe and at home tonight...
You are a blessed woman...

126 joncelli  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:19:28pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

It takes 60 to invoke cloture, so the GOP needs to retain 41 seats. It'll be close.

127 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:19:35pm

re: #113 Sharmuta

And he's right.

According to him: 98.8% of the time :-)

128 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:19:54pm

re: #118 Spare O'Lake

Your mother-in-law must be a great cook.

My mother-in-law has Alzheimers and lives with us, that is why I joined the Navy! And she couldn't cook in her better days. Hell now she has trouble remembering to close the bathroom door. And people think I am only drinking more because of this election.

129 Perplexed  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:20:16pm

re: #87 nikis-knight

I just can't believe Franken is up in polls. Name recognition can't really be everything, can it?

No, just the liberal turds (yes I know that is redundant) up in the Twin Cities.

130 Adrenalyn  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:20:19pm

media uses race card again

[Link: voices.kansascity.com...]

131 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:20:52pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

You flipped an 0bamabot?

? she used to be so left we could only communicate professionally. Who knows? Maybe the final straw?

132 jonturner  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:20:54pm

Koz Kidz are nutz:
What if Obama really is the Second Coming of Christ?
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Wait a second, I thought Christians were the greatest enemy to freedom/peace/etc the world has ever seen? Suddenly, religion is a good thing? I just can't keep up with these liberal memes.

133 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:20:57pm

re: #110 nikis-knight

I don't fly much, but I'm 6'6" and the guy/gal in front of me always reclines their seat at some point. Even though it is touching my knees to begin with.

I read in one of the travel magazines that there's a device you can purchase that will clip on to your tray table and make it impossible for the asshole in front of you to do that.

134 Adrenalyn  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:21:09pm

* You cannot help the poor, by destroying the rich.

* You cannot strengthen the weak, by weakening the strong.

* You cannot bring about prosperity, by discouraging thrift.

* You cannot lift the wage earner up, by pulling the wage payer down.

* You cannot further the brotherhood of man, by inciting class hatred.

* You cannot build character and courage, by taking away men's initiative and independence.

* You cannot help men permanently, by doing for them what they could and should, do for themselves

135 Shay4l  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:21:15pm

re: #55 formercorpsman

Anyone have any opinions on the major international crisis?

I know we had a thread about Bolton's response, but what caught my attention was this being repeated by 2 former SOS's, and Powell suggested, January 21st or 22nd.

Both parties had have just recently met with the administration, something Bush signed by executive order (the Presidential Transition Coordinating Council) which no doubt leaves me to think some pretty good intel, or assessment has been divulged.

I don't know about anyone else, but this seems pretty insidious to me.

And immediately after, Zerobama runs crying to Hawaii for a couple days to either ask his gramma to hug him, or get more of whatever dope he takes these days to cope. Musta been pretty bad news.

136 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:21:24pm

re: #122 formercorpsman

With respect to that incident, do you think Israel could have had a hand in encouraging the hijackers in that scenario?

When you think about it, it would a superb CO, and not totally off the mark when you consider it was a Nork ship they were following that resulted in the Syrian affair.

No doubt Israel is working counter on this.....all this pirate activity is a little too surprising just as things are heating up with Iran.

137 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:22:11pm

Did any of the dinosaur media ever print a retraction for the bullshit 'kill him'! story at a McCain rally from earlier this month?

/didn't think so

138 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:22:18pm

re: #125 HoosierHoops

I hear ya DT been there done that..
But really..after 9-11 the 50 dollar offer is off limits..
We have all had bad flight.I've got some whoopers to tell you..
You have mr. DT safe and at home tonight...
You are a blessed woman...

He's not home - he's up playing the rain teaching a scout class to some military guys.

139 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:22:33pm

re: #123 looking closely


Yes, that is definitely one aspect that has been running in my mind specifically because the examples you cite.

I am positive Israel has rock solid intel about that situation, and is making serious preparations.

140 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:22:41pm

re: #138 DistantThunder

He's not home - he's up playing the rain teaching a scout class to some military guys.

Playing in the rain...

141 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:22:52pm

Yeah- some of the polling this year was real on top of the ball!

142 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:22:59pm

re: #137 Fenway_Nation

Did any of the dinosaur media ever print a retraction for the bullshit 'kill him'! story at a McCain rally from earlier this month?

/didn't think so

Hey, by the way, anyone missing Manny up there?

143 Adrenalyn  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:23:08pm

re: #133 David Simon

I read in one of the travel magazines that there's a device you can purchase that will clip on to your tray table and make it impossible for the asshole in front of you to do that.


airlines will no longer let you use them

FYI - get an exit row seat
more legroom
the seat in front CANNOT be reclined


side note to Charles
I still get kicked to the home page when hitting quote, reply, ding, etc.... (half the time)

144 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:23:08pm

re: #131 Bobibutu

Then you Rock!

145 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:23:32pm

52 and 46-- Listen to Mark Levin on the Internet. It is On his site , The Mark Levin show .com IT takes 7o min to run thru it and yo can back up to re-hear something.
Avail about an hr after his show airs at his home station.
You can tell if the date is red hyperlink it is ready to go.
Free, listen any time.

146 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:23:34pm

re: #134 Adrenalyn

* You cannot help the poor, by destroying the rich.

* You cannot strengthen the weak, by weakening the strong.

* You cannot bring about prosperity, by discouraging thrift.

* You cannot lift the wage earner up, by pulling the wage payer down.

* You cannot further the brotherhood of man, by inciting class hatred.

* You cannot build character and courage, by taking away men's initiative and independence.

* You cannot help men permanently, by doing for them what they could and should, do for themselves

You obviously have never met my wife...

147 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:23:57pm

re: #123 looking closely

Its probably that the Bush administration has intel about a planned attack on Iran by Israel in the case of an Obama win.
Israel simply can't trust Obama (who doesn't even understand the Jerusalem as capital issue and wants to renege on NAFTA) to do the right thing.


Gas will be 2 bucks a gallon.
Attack Iran,
probably go to 6-8 dollars gallon.

Israel needs to kick their ass.

We need to pump their oil.

148 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:24:03pm

Zogby had 0bama by +13% in Cali! Actual result- Clinton by 9.6!

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

149 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:24:08pm

re: #128 Nevergiveup

My mother-in-law has Alzheimers and lives with us, that is why I joined the Navy! And she couldn't cook in her better days. Hell now she has trouble remembering to close the bathroom door. And people think I am only drinking more because of this election.

OOOOPS, sorry.

150 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:24:13pm

re: #141 Sharmuta

Yeah- some of the polling this year was real on top of the ball!

Thanks I needed that. It's this year's pollster stupidity that gives me strength

151 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:24:29pm

re: #134 Adrenalyn

* You cannot help the poor, by destroying the rich.

* You cannot strengthen the weak, by weakening the strong.

* You cannot bring about prosperity, by discouraging thrift.

* You cannot lift the wage earner up, by pulling the wage payer down.

* You cannot further the brotherhood of man, by inciting class hatred.

* You cannot build character and courage, by taking away men's initiative and independence.

* You cannot help men permanently, by doing for them what they could and should, do for themselves

Nice post.

152 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:24:47pm

re: #132 jonturner

Don't they throw the term "Christofascist around pretty loosely"?

They missed the comet.

153 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:21pm

re: #132 jonturner

Koz Kidz are nutz:
What if Obama really is the Second Coming of Christ?
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Wait a second, I thought Christians were the greatest enemy to freedom/peace/etc the world has ever seen? Suddenly, religion is a good thing? I just can't keep up with these liberal memes.

Ok, so them making this point is actually a powerful argument for him being the anti-christ. LOL - Just kidding. Just wait till those poll numbers drop through the floor in 6 months. The Kos Kidz are going to seriously need all that free health care.

Part of me has a sadistic desire to see him as president only to see the left traumatized by reality.

154 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:23pm

re: #135 Shay4l

What strikes me about the international crisis is that it sounds like Biden already knows what the response will be. And he thinks it will look wrong to Obama supporters. So...*puts rose-colored glasses on*...it suggests The One might actually have to use hard power to solve it.

*takes rose-colored glasses off*...or he won't, Israel will be destroyed, and Democratic voters sympathetic to Israel will be furious.

Who was Biden's audience? What constituencies did it represent? Why would they think it was the wrong decision? That might help find an answer.

155 bosforus  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:25pm

re: #104 jetprop

Rush was saying today that the purpose of these poLLLs put out by the drive bys is to make us feel demoralized.

They demoralize me no more than just the thought of an Obama administration, which is an idea we've all been demoralized by for the past year.

156 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:31pm

re: #144 Sharmuta

Then you Rock!

Why - thank you. I have been a bit aggressive and relentless with my mail list. Several have asked to be removed in the past month.

157 Sylvester_T_Cat  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:36pm

Charles, the LGF Search function is slightly borked. (Been watching for an open thread to explain this as best I can ;-)). Here's the problem:

When you select "more options" and enter a search word (I try to keep up with a couple of Lizards and what they're saying overnight), the next thing that pops up is a slick calendar to help with entering search dates.
Right now the calendar feature mostly isn't working. Can't enter dates manually either. ("Mostly" means, you can do a first search on some entry... which searches all entries from LGF day one, takes forever ;-), then suddenly after that first search, the calendar thingy starts working for further searches.
It just started doing that a couple of days ago, not a big thing but.... Thanks for all the great things you're doing!

158 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:36pm

re: #135 Shay4l

And immediately after, Zerobama runs crying to Hawaii for a couple days to either ask his gramma to hug him, or get more of whatever dope he takes these days to cope. Musta been pretty bad news.

Well as much as i dislike president obama..If his grandmother is sick and he needs to visit her in a time of severe illness..Bless him.
We are all humans here...politics aside..

159 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:25:45pm

re: bobibutu
well done!
(since i pass out the chocolates on Rantburg when we bag an AlQ biggie, i suppose that here on LGF, i'll pass out cupcakes when a lizard manages to enlighten a moonbat!)

160 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:26:37pm

re: #142 Nevergiveup

Hey, by the way, anyone missing Manny up there?


Anyone missing October baseball (or a vintage stadium) down there?

161 Outrider  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:26:46pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the thing about the polls being wrong is an urban myth going around. I've seen a few conservative pundits repeating it.

That's right. That is why they are all so spot on with each other. No variance there.

162 TheMatrix31  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:26:58pm

Sharmuta, to answer your question from the previous thread;

It's not that they're prepping us for Socialism already. It's just an analysis of data sets. Maybe I'm young and naive. I'll post the prompt later.

163 Perplexed  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:27:00pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

Well as much as i dislike president obama..If his grandmother is sick and he needs to visit her in a time of severe illness..Bless him.
We are all humans here...politics aside..

This is the same woman he threw under the bus for being a typical white racist. The same woman who raised him when his own mother was otherwise occupied. He owes her his life.

164 Adrenalyn  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:27:13pm

David Simon

thank you !


I'd hit the "reply" button
but I am getting tired of having to visit the home page again
and reloading all the comments over and over

165 CynicalConservative  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:27:13pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

Well as much as i dislike president senator obama..If his grandmother is sick and he needs to visit her in a time of severe illness..Bless him.
We are all humans here...politics aside..

fixed that...

166 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:27:13pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

Well as much as i dislike president obama..If his grandmother is sick and he needs to visit her in a time of severe illness..Bless him.
We are all humans here...politics aside..

Amen. Family comes first.

167 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:27:24pm

re: #154 arethusa

What strikes me about the international crisis is that it sounds like Biden already knows what the response will be. And he thinks it will look wrong to Obama supporters. So...*puts rose-colored glasses on*...it suggests The One might actually have to use hard power to solve it.

*takes rose-colored glasses off*...or he won't, Israel will be destroyed, and Democratic voters sympathetic to Israel will be furious.

I was just thinking about the same thing, Arethusa! I thought that maybe Israel was planning to attack Iran, and that Obama would side against Israel!

Who was Biden's audience? What constituencies did it represent? Why would they think it was the wrong decision? That might help find an answer.

168 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:27:24pm

re: #135 Shay4l

Nice thought, but I don't think that is the way it will play out.

He has actually had a couple of meetings with European leaders recently, and it makes me wonder if he is not trying to garner support in preparation of something foretold.

169 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:06pm

re: #149 Spare O'Lake

OOOOPS, sorry.

No it's ok. She was the worst cook ever. Shit, she couldn't even make good reservations!

170 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:09pm

re: #159 Querent

re: bobibutu
well done!
(since i pass out the chocolates on Rantburg when we bag an AlQ biggie, i suppose that here on LGF, i'll pass out cupcakes when a lizard manages to enlighten a moonbat!)

Thanks - and I am a huge fan of Rantburg!

171 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:28pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the thing about the polls being wrong is an urban myth going around. I've seen a few conservative pundits repeating it.

Gore may be opening solid lead -- with a caveat

Today's figures -- 51 percent for Gore to 40 percent for Bush -- represents a significant margin for the vice president.

/the only wrong part about it is that it was a month out, not two weeks

172 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:28pm

re: #35 Soona'

{...as they raise their hands to the sky.}

.............and they sing this, the new anthem

[Link: www.nmatv.com...]

173 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:35pm

I think Nobama refuses to release his medical records because he's been treated for psychological issues in the past (could be related to drug use, too). Just a guess. I can't link to someone smarter than me for you.

174 ibmkeyboard  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:38pm

re: #135 Shay4l

And immediately after, Zerobama runs crying to Hawaii for a couple days to either ask his gramma to hug him, or get more of whatever dope he takes these days to cope. Musta been pretty bad news.

So Bambi might inherit another major war.

Acorn and get out the Vote will have to register young men for the draft-

good luck with that.

175 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:28:44pm

re: #160 Fenway_Nation

Anyone missing October baseball (or a vintage stadium) down there?

Oh that hurt.

176 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:29:24pm

#170
you might have seen me there (usually passing out the chocolates)

177 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:29:34pm

re: #160 Fenway_Nation

Anyone missing October baseball (or a vintage stadium) down there?

alright smart person. How many more days until Spring Training?

178 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:29:38pm

re: #42 SpartanWoman

Ah the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It will be a pleasure having Hillary to run against in 2012. Compared to Obama she is surely a rose

There's always a chance that Hillary will be so turned off by Obama's supporters that she sees the light and becomes a Republican. We'd welcome her -- sans health care nationalization.

179 StudSupreme  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:29:46pm

I haven't read this whole thread, but if it hasn't been done already, I'd like to open the following topic:

RIGHT NOW, on Yahoo's front page and their news, the AP is frothingly promoting a just released story on one of their Sarah Palin investigations, which is implying that Palin misused her discretionary expenditures in Alaska by taking her kids on official biz trips with her.
I say again: AP SPECIAL INVESTIGATION.

On the same front page of Yahoo, including their News page - THE LEAD STORY is OBAMA'S WONDERFUL SICK GRANDMA.


W H A T
T E H
F * * * ? ? ?

180 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:29:49pm

re: #163 Perplexed

This is the same woman he threw under the bus for being a typical white racist. The same woman who raised him when his own mother was otherwise occupied. He owes her his life.


I agree....
I'll bet..there is a closeness between barry and his nana..We can't see that..
I prefer we keep the attacks political..not personal...

181 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:29:51pm

Now on cnn, Obmeister is up by ten points! It is the end of the M'Cain campaign. The voters are voting for Obama in the Obama campaign. Whereas the M'Cain supporters are
Are voting against Obama. and cnn says that is bad for a behind runner-up.ANd on and on. Hanging crepe and saying it is the end of the line, looks like it is over.

Also they are joyous over some gaffe that Gov Palin did. and that there is a conflict-of-interest charge in AK waiting for her. Joy! They are so Happy! And Chuck Todd is so pleased that there is all this gloom.

But notice that the topic of Biden comments is being dumped with the above and the Hawaii trip to see his old g'ma.

182 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:30:03pm

re: #167 Cast Iron Magnolia

I was just thinking about the same thing, Arethusa! I thought that maybe Israel was planning to attack Iran, and that Obama would side against Israel!

Wasn't there an earlier thread about a winter LGF trip to Israel? 'Cause I agree with CIM, and I'd really like to see Israel before I can't.

183 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:30:09pm

re: #45 Jamie

I don't think that's true. If I remember correctly, he was up or tied at this point.

Its true that Bush was polling ahead this late in the game last cycle.

But the press bias this time around is unprecedented, and there is good reason (including the so-called "Bradley effect") to think that polling is more heavily skewed now.

184 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:30:24pm

re: #167 Cast Iron Magnolia

I don't know what happened to my response to you, Arethusa, but it got all conglomerated!

185 MrSnuggles  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:30:51pm

re: #14 Killian Bundy

They are trying to suppress republican votes, but all they are going to do is make leftists complacent. Why bother to go vote for the savior when he has already won? At least thats what I hope.

186 Soona'  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:30:59pm

re: #130 Adrenalyn

media uses race card again

[Link: voices.kansascity.com...]


NO!

187 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:31:08pm

re: #178 hermeneutics

There's always a chance that Hillary will be so turned off by Obama's supporters that she sees the light and becomes a Republican. We'd welcome her -- sans health care nationalization.

Health care reform is the sine qua non of what she stands for.

188 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:31:15pm

re: #165 CynicalConservative

fixed that...

Thanks for the fix! when i wrote that..i could have sworn i wrote a possible presidential..ect..
I hit post and screamed NO! hoping nobody would notice...

189 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:31:30pm

re: #173 jemima

I think Nobama refuses to release his medical records because he's been treated for psychological issues in the past (could be related to drug use, too). Just a guess. I can't link to someone smarter than me for you.

I think the same. Or he smokes way more than we think. Neither are disqualifiers, necessarily, but I think some voters would be put off.

190 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:31:51pm

re: #176 Querent

#170
you might have seen me there (usually passing out the chocolates)

We will have much to discuss come Sunday.

191 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:31:52pm
192 bcgirl  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:09pm

yep it was awesome -- she rocked the room, it was so worth taking the morning off

re: #93 Badge of Kaffir Pride

Want a bit of Sarah Palin thumping Joe Six Term?

Obama's 5th crisis is priceless

193 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:18pm

re: #184 Cast Iron Magnolia

I don't know what happened to my response to you, Arethusa, but it got all conglomerated!

Groupthink! I figured it out, though. ;-)

194 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:27pm
195 nikis-knight  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:38pm

re: #178 hermeneutics

There's always a chance that Hillary will be so turned off by Obama's supporters that she sees the light and becomes a Republican. We'd welcome her -- sans health care nationalization.


Did they ever give back the White House furniture that left with them? And while I'd take a Clinton endorsement, I really don't want her handing out pardons like her husband was, or appointing supreme court justices. I can sympasize with her getting run over by the Obama bus, and I'm sure she'd be well more moderate than Barak if elected, but that doesn't mean I trust her policy judgement much.

196 Shay4l  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:39pm

re: #158 HoosierHoops

Well as much as i dislike president obama..If his grandmother is sick and he needs to visit her in a time of severe illness..Bless him.
We are all humans here...politics aside..

If his Typical White Grandmother is seriously ill, he should be with her. She raised him.

(Can he be president and care for his ailing grandmother at the same time? Palin haters don't think so.)

Best wishes to his grandmother if she is in failing health.

197 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:51pm

The lead on Drudge is amusing: "San Fran Weighs Decriminalizing Prostitution"

Now, will this galvanize any voters? I rather doubt it.

198 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:32:51pm

re: #194 ploome hineni

hi Moe

Ploome, how's by you?

199 CynicalConservative  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:33:06pm

re: #188 HoosierHoops

Thanks for the fix! when i wrote that..i could have sworn i wrote a possible presidential..ect..
I hit post and screamed NO! hoping nobody would notice...

no worries, figured it was an honest mistake. Hate when that post button presses itself too soon

200 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:33:13pm

#190
oh we will. i'm looking forward to meeting the local lizards -- and i'm bringing the lizard-green cupcakes.

had you planned it to be a pot-luck lizard luncheon?

201 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:33:16pm

What obama failed to appreciate about his grandmother is that as a woman - it is very intimidating to have a large drunk that outweighs you by 2, slobbering all over you and panhandling money - especially if it's happening at a bus stop where you need to stand and weight.

His grandfather should have said: That's horrible, i will go and stand with you or drive you. Obama was not raised with any sense of gallantry or chivalry.

202 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:33:40pm

re: #178 hermeneutics

There's always a chance that Hillary will be so turned off by Obama's supporters that she sees the light and becomes a Republican. We'd welcome her -- sans health care nationalization.

Hey she was a Goldwater girl, ya know

203 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:33:41pm

re: #182 arethusa

Wasn't there an earlier thread about a winter LGF trip to Israel? 'Cause I agree with CIM, and I'd really like to see Israel before I can't.

I think the best place to live (if McCain isn't elected) would be Israel. Or, Alaska.

204 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:33:50pm

#145
Thanks for the info on the Levin show. I really like him.

Hannity this afternoon was speculating on what this generated crisis will be and what Barry would do that would cause us not to support him.
Sean thought it would be no response and we'd be screaming for payback.

205 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:34:06pm

re: #195 nikis-knight

Did they ever give back the White House furniture that left with them? And while I'd take a Clinton endorsement, I really don't want her handing out pardons like her husband was, or appointing supreme court justices. I can sympasize with her getting run over by the Obama bus, and I'm sure she'd be well more moderate than Barak if elected, but that doesn't mean I trust her policy judgement much.

Agreed. She started as a Goldwater Girl ... maybe she'll end her life as a libertarian? Weirder things have happened.

206 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:34:26pm

re: #192 bcgirl

yep it was awesome -- she rocked the room, it was so worth taking the morning off

You were there?! I'm jealous.

207 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:34:31pm

re: #191 ploome hineni

hi

I wonder which heirloom tomato you would recommend if I were to grow one variety for salad?

Sorry for butting in, but the most delicious heirloom I've ever tasted is Cherokee Purple. Carry on.

208 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:34:38pm

re: #179 StudSupreme

I haven't read this whole thread, but if it hasn't been done already, I'd like to open the following topic:

RIGHT NOW, on Yahoo's front page and their news, the AP is frothingly promoting a just released story on one of their Sarah Palin investigations, which is implying that Palin misused her discretionary expenditures in Alaska by taking her kids on official biz trips with her.
I say again: AP SPECIAL INVESTIGATION.

On the same front page of Yahoo, including their News page - THE LEAD STORY is OBAMA'S WONDERFUL SICK GRANDMA.


W H A T
T E H
F * * * ? ? ?

Palin's reponse is that the children has been officially invited to participate in the government activity by their hosts.

209 bcgirl  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:34:40pm

i would be happy to look into a trip to Israel for LGF'ers, i will do it today and have some informatin tomorrow if anyone is interested,,

re: #182 arethusa

Wasn't there an earlier thread about a winter LGF trip to Israel? 'Cause I agree with CIM, and I'd really like to see Israel before I can't.

210 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:34:43pm

re: #196 Shay4l

If his Typical White Grandmother is seriously ill, he should be with her. She raised him.

(Can he be president and care for his ailing grandmother at the same time? Palin haters don't think so.)

Best wishes to his grandmother if she is in failing health.

I dinged you up.. I knew you were good people..
The Hoopster

211 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:35:09pm

re: #23 jamie

Polls are BS. Ojoe's poll hammer:

1. Polls are public. There are at least 2 people present when a polling question is asked. The Ballot is private.

2. Poll questions can be worded in leading, tricky ways. The ballot is simple.

3. Polls can be used to try and influence the outcome of an election, so the motivation behind them and their reporting is suspect. The ballot is the election.

4. You can lie to a pollster. You cannot lie to the ballot.

5. Polls come to you. You have to get up off your ass to vote.

6. Only God knows the future anyway.

212 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:35:30pm

re: #201 DistantThunder

What obama failed to appreciate about his grandmother is that as a woman - it is very intimidating to have a large drunk that outweighs you by 2, slobbering all over you and panhandling money - especially if it's happening at a bus stop where you need to stand and weight.

His grandfather should have said: That's horrible, i will go and stand with you or drive you. Obama was not raised with any sense of gallantry or chivalry.

WAIT Not Weight - I've been alone with 5 children for a week and my brain is fried.

213 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:36:01pm

re: #203 Cast Iron Magnolia

I think the best place to live (if McCain isn't elected) would be Israel. Or, Alaska.

Well Israel will be in range of Iranian Nuclear Missiles and Alaska will be in range of future North Korean Nuclear Missiles? I'd go to Israel to die with my people, especially since Sarah is taken.

214 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:36:42pm

#189

I would have a problem if Barry was diagnosed as a pathological egomaniac, narcissist and sociopath--which he certainly seems to be. It's one thing to have been depressed and needed Zoloft but what Barry has can't be cured with pharmacology. Maybe he exhibited tendencies while at Columbia or Harvard. (Altho at Harvard would mental problems be so detectable?)

215 bcgirl  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:36:46pm

re: #206 Badge of Kaffir Pride

You were there?! I'm jealous.


yep and she autographed my pit bull's picture,, (it said pit bull for palin and i put pink lipstick on my dog for it)

216 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:36:58pm

re: #202 SpartanWoman

Hey she was a Goldwater girl, ya know

Yeah, she sure inverted Winston Churchill's famous quote, didn't she?

217 solomonpanting  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:37:06pm

re: #197 hermeneutics

The lead on Drudge is amusing: "San Fran Weighs Decriminalizing Prostitution"

Now, will this galvanize any voters? I rather doubt it.

The ballot question technically would not legalize prostitution since state law still prohibits it, but the measure would eliminate the power of local law enforcement officials to go after prostitutes.
"It will allow workers to organize for our rights and for our safety," said Patricia West, 22, who said she has been selling sex for about a year by placing ads on the Internet. She moved to San Francisco in May from Texas to work on Proposition K.

Golly, gee, Buford, if it's against state law how can they have rights?

218 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:37:08pm

re: #210 HoosierHoops

I did see, though that Michelle is not going to make the trip. She is subbing for the ONE on the trail. Hmmmm
makes one wonder.

Then again, would YOU want Joe Biden in charge for even a little while?

219 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:37:12pm

re: #211 Ojoe

Polls are BS. Ojoe's poll hammer:

1. Polls are public. There are at least 2 people present when a polling question is asked. The Ballot is private.

2. Poll questions can be worded in leading, tricky ways. The ballot is simple.

3. Polls can be used to try and influence the outcome of an election, so the motivation behind them and their reporting is suspect. The ballot is the election.

4. You can lie to a pollster. You cannot lie to the ballot.

5. Polls come to you. You have to get up off your ass to vote.

6. Only God knows the future anyway.

I had a pollster ask me if I was against the ban on the anti- something or other - it was a triple negative questions - I wrote it down on paper and figured it out and then gave the pollster my response.

220 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:37:51pm

re: #200 Querent

#190
oh we will. i'm looking forward to meeting the local lizards -- and i'm bringing the lizard-green cupcakes.

had you planned it to be a pot-luck lizard luncheon?

Kind of a mix - ya wanna cook a steak or chicken for your self - bring it. Wanna bring something to share OK as well. Full BBQ and commercial kitchen good to go.

221 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:37:58pm

re: #214 jemima

#189

I would have a problem if Barry was diagnosed as a pathological egomaniac, narcissist and sociopath--which he certainly seems to be. It's one thing to have been depressed and needed Zoloft but what Barry has can't be cured with pharmacology. Maybe he exhibited tendencies while at Columbia or Harvard. (Altho at Harvard would mental problems be so detectable?)

Many people in leadership positions with those Axis II features. More a trait than a real disorder.

222 bcgirl  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:38:06pm

re: #217 solomonpanting

Golly, gee, Buford, if it's against state law how can they have rights?


cuz it is cali forn i cation

223 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:38:15pm

re: #213 Nevergiveup

Well Israel will be in range of Iranian Nuclear Missiles and Alaska will be in range of future North Korean Nuclear Missiles? I'd go to Israel to die with my people, especially since Sarah is taken.

Well, "my people" are in Scotland! But, if Israel would adopt me, I'd be honored to stand with them against whatever may come.

224 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:38:25pm

re: #217 solomonpanting

Golly, gee, Buford, if it's against state law how can they have rights?

San Francisco certainly learned a lot from the AIDS epidemic of which it was the epicenter - now didn't it?

225 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:38:29pm

#191

Ploome, the best heirloom tomato I grow is Grandfather Ashlock. I got it from Carl Ashlock and he got it from his grandfather. It's spectacular. Pink beefsteak. Early, sweet, pumps the tomatoes out all season. I'll be glad to send you some seeds if you want.

226 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:38:35pm

To piggyback on Ojoe's Hammer, the polls are actually looking pretty good in spite of teh bias, the wrong partisan ID, etc., etc., etc.,

As said today on another blog:
"Look, it’s been pretty much confirmed that Obama’s own numbers only have him up by two in PA.

Think about what that means…and think about the national implications when you consider that all states are linked together in something of a political spectrum.

Mac may not be behind at all! [I regard this race as a PUSH and I have for a month now.]

As for IBD/TIPP…not bothered. Two huge Obama outliers drop off in the next two days. Reuters/Zogby has two O+10 outlier samples that will drop off tomorrow night/Thurs AM and day after tomorrow/Fri AM. Gallup has had two huge Obama days (today and yesterday). Those will drop off by Friday."

Hedgehog Report

227 El Lizardo mejicano  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:39:02pm

US intelligence: Iran will be able to build first nuclear bomb by February 2009

[Link: www.debka.com...]

I am sure that the messiah and his friends will be ready to have some tea with them in a heartbeat.

228 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:39:10pm

re: #221 Moe Katz

Many people in leadership positions with those Axis II features. More a trait than a real disorder.

Scares the sh*t out of me, especially if the phone is ringing at 0300.

229 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:39:33pm

commercial kitchen? yeah, we will be talking... i've been looking for one of those...

230 TheMatrix31  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:39:49pm

Why doesn't the HotAir article talk about Rezko, Odinga, etc?

231 Perplexed  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:39:55pm

re: #214 jemima

/www.nypost.com/seven/10172008/news/regionalnews/a irport_bomb_134003.htm" target="_blank">Reincarnation?

232 The Archivist  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:05pm

Levin is interviewing Brian Anderson right now, author of A Manifesto for Media Freedom
See [Link: www.manhattan-institute.org...]
for info on the book.

Strategy...we need strategy!

233 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:09pm

re: #223 Cast Iron Magnolia

Well, "my people" are in Scotland! But, if Israel would adopt me, I'd be honored to stand with them against whatever may come.

We would happy and honored to have you.

234 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:11pm

re: #204 jemima


Hannity this afternoon was speculating on what this generated crisis will be and what Barry would do that would cause us not to support him.
Sean thought it would be no response and we'd be screaming for payback.

He was talking to Democrats at a fundraiser. So it must be something rich Democrats wouldn't like. (Me, I plan to scream at everything The One does in office.)

235 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:14pm

re: #228 smokefire

Scares the sh*t out of me, especially if the phone is ringing at 0300.


I'd rather have the sociopath at 3:00 A.M. than a 'normal' personality. They tend to be unflappable.

236 StudSupreme  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:21pm

re: #208 DistantThunder

Palin's reponse is that the children has been officially invited to participate in the government activity by their hosts.

Wait. Here's what I'm getting at:

The AP is continuing its Pravda - inspired Witch Hunt against Republicans, yet rather than show journalistic integrity by also investigating Ayers, Wright, ACORN or any of another half dozen things on Obama, they write a worshipful fluff piece.


THIS IS EVIL.

How do we keep a free press and yet permit them to violate their sacred trust by choosing sides and suborning/corrupting the political process?

I find myself deeply disturbed, even a bit frightened, by all this. And I'm no sissy - 6'2", 225, not a wimp by any means.

237 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:49pm

re: #223 Cast Iron Magnolia

Well, "my people" are in Scotland! But, if Israel would adopt me, I'd be honored to stand with them against whatever may come.

....then make some room in the suitcase for me then. Only problem I would have is trying to learn Hebrew.
But putting water on fire is pretty much the same everywhere.

238 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:40:55pm
239 HDrepub  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:41:35pm

Today I celebrate four years as a lizard. Charles' treatment of Dan Rather and memogate brought me here on this date in 2004. Thanks for all you do Charles.

240 Perplexed  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:41:39pm

re: #231 Perplexed

Damned rebellious fingers and link grabbing pc.

241 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:41:42pm

re: #237 smokefire

....then make some room in the suitcase for me then. Only problem I would have is trying to learn Hebrew.
But putting water on fire is pretty much the same everywhere.

Almost everyone knows some English in Israel.

242 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:41:45pm

re: #230 TheMatrix31

Why doesn't the HotAir article talk about Rezko, Odinga, etc?

So many transgressions, so little time...

243 spidly  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:41:49pm

re: #148 Sharmuta

Zogby had 0bama by +13% in Cali! Actual result- Clinton by 9.6!

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

here's one to cheer you
for 10/21 national

244 Geepers  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:42:14pm

Killgore Trout says:

Yeah, the thing about the polls being wrong is an urban myth going around.

Saturday, November 06th, 2004
State Poll Results

#11 - The LA Times Poll. the LA Times made predictions in 6 states, and in 5 Battleground States. Nationally, the LAT had 3 calls right, 3 wrong, and was off by an average of 7.67
one of their final polls was off by more than 10 points.

#10 - Fox News Poll. Fox News made predictions in 6 states, all in Battleground States. The FNP made 3 calls right, and 3 wrong, and was off by an average of 8.33 points
one of their final polls was off by more than 10 points.
.

#9 - Quinnipiac University Poll. Quinnipiac made predictions in 5 states, and in 2 Battleground States. The QUP made 4 calls right, and 1 call wrong, and was off by an average of 7.00 points
one of their final polls was off by more than 10 points.
.

#8 - American Research Group. ARG made predictions in all 50 states, and in all 14 Battleground States. ARG made 45 calls right, and 5 calls wrong, and was off by an average of 6.84 points
one of their final polls was off by more than 10 points.
.

#7 - Strategic Vision. SV made predictions in 11 states, and in 7 Battleground States. SV got 7 calls right, and 4 wrong, and was off by an average of 6.27 points
one of their final polls was off by more than 10 points.
.

#6 - Zogby. Mr. “John Kerry Will Win” made predictions in 20 states, and in 13 Battleground States. Zogby got 16 calls right, and 4 wrong, and was off by an average of 6.10 points
one of his final polls was off by more than 10 points
.

#5 - Mason-Dixon. M-D made predictions in 24 states, and in 13 Battleground States. M-D got 23 calls right, and 1 wrong, and was off by an average of 5.75 points
.

#4 - CNN/USA Today/Gallup - CUG made predictions in 15 states, and in 12 Battleground States. CUG got 11 calls right and 4 wrong, and was off by an average of 5.33 points.


#3 - Research 2000 - R2K made predictions in 13 states, and in 7 Battleground States. R2K got 12 calls right, and 1 wrong, and was off by an average of 5.15 points.


#2 - A close finish, but number two is Rasmussen Reports. RR made predictions in 33 states, and in 13 Battleground States. RR got all their calls correct, without a single miss, and they were off by an average of 5.82 points. What hurt them was their wide variance of accuracy in support. Three of their final polls were the closest for their state, but another 3 of their final polls were off by more than 10 points. In the Battleground States, RR got all 13 right, and they were off by an average of 4.15 points
.

#1 - (drum roll, please) Survey USA. SUSA made predictions in 30 states, and in 9 Battleground States. SUSA got 29 right and 1 wrong, and was off by an average of 3.70 points. So, why does SUSA win with 29/30, and beat RR take second with 33/33? It comes down to hitting the bullseye. EIGHTEEN of Survey USA’s final polls were the closest for that state, almost twice as many as every other major poll PUT TOGETHER! Also, none of their polls were invalidated for being more than 10 points off. In the Battleground States, SUSA got 8 right and 1 wrong, and was off by an average of 3.44 points. Three of SUSA’s final polls in Battleground States were the closest for that state, again the best of any poll.

245 solomonpanting  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:42:15pm

re: #222 bcgirl

re: #224 DistantThunder

If the cops won't bother with prostitution, maybe "safe sex" will take on a whole new meaning in SF.

246 El Lizardo mejicano  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:42:35pm

US intelligence’s amended estimate, that Iran will be ready to build its first bomb just one month after the next US president is sworn in, is disclosed by DEBKAfile’s Washington sources as having been relayed as a guideline to the Middle East teams of both presidential candidates, Senators John McCain and Barack Obama.

The information prompted the assertion by Democratic vice presidential nominee Joseph Biden in Seattle Sunday, Oct. 19: “It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy.”
McCain retorted Tuesday, Oct. 21: “America does not need a president that needs to be tested. I’ve been tested. I was aboard the Enterprise off the coast of Cuba. I’ve been there.”)

DEBKAfile’s military sources cite the new US timeline: By late January, 2009, Iran will have accumulated enough low-grade enriched uranium (up to 5%) for its “break-out” to weapons grade (90%) material within a short time. For this, the Iranians have achieved the necessary technology. In February, they can move on to start building their first nuclear bomb.

US intelligence believes Tehran has the personnel, plans and diagrams for a bomb and has been running experiments to this end for the past two years. The UN International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna last week asked Tehran to clarify recent complex experiments they conducted in detonating nuclear materials for a weapon, but received no answer.

The same US evaluation adds that the Iranian leadership is holding off its go-ahead to start building the bomb until the last minute so as to ward off international pressure to stop at the red line.

This development together with the galloping global economic crisis will force the incoming US president to go straight into decision-making without pause on Day One in the Oval Office. He will have to determine which urgent measures can serve best for keeping a nuclear bomb out of the Islamic republic’s hands - diplomatic or military – and how to proceed if those measures fail.

His knowledge of the challenge colored Sen. Biden’s additional words in Seattle: “Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
Israel’s political and military leaders also face a tough dilemma that can no longer be put off of whether to strike Iran’s nuclear installations militarily in the next three months between US presidencies before the last window closes, or take a chance on coordination with the next president.

Waiting for the “international community” to do the job of stopping Iran, as urged by governments headed by Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert - and strongly advocated Tzipi Livni, foreign minister and would-be prime minister - has been a washout. Iran stands defiantly on the threshold of a nuclear weapon.

247 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:42:37pm

re: #226 hermeneutics

Also, CNN ran a story earlier that Ed Rendell, Gov. of PA, is worried about PA and wants Obama to come back and campaign there some more. Rendell is a pretty blunt guy, usually if he says something he means it.

248 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:42:38pm

re: #237 smokefire

....then make some room in the suitcase for me then. Only problem I would have is trying to learn Hebrew.
But putting water on fire is pretty much the same everywhere.

There's always room for a friend.....I'll even bring cake. Or cornbread and peas.

249 Chris in Toronto  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:42:55pm

re: #48 Globular Cluster

I saw it last night. I thought it hilarious, however clumsy in some spots. Overall, I'd give it 4/5. But I have a bent sense of humour.

250 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:43:15pm

Our church leaders in Salt Lake say it's going to be a very bumpy ride and have been telling us to get prepared for the last 2 years.

We have a year's supply of food, and other ....things. We have a stable water supply as we sit on top of the purest aquifer in the US - in south Jersey - like 13 trillion gallons, part of the Wharton state forest.

We are in a position to pick up and evacuate if we have to OR

shelter in place and self-quarrantine.

251 jemima  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:43:21pm

#221

Most pols have an unhealthily big ego but I can't remember one lately who thought he was the messiah/the one. You get into the real freaks and dangerous guys when the pathology is that severe.

252 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:43:23pm

re: #238 Sharmuta

Battleground 2008 poll shows STATISTICAL TIE, with 5% undecided

Good news! And did you see in the text where it said the undecided will break for McCAin 4:1? I think it may be higher than that, personally. Anyone who has decided to support Obama already has -- the rest are simply unwilling to declare their vote for McCain.

MCCAIN WINS, Reptiles. He really does.

253 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:43:43pm

re: #239 HDrepub

Today I celebrate four years as a lizard. Charles' treatment of Dan Rather and memogate brought me here on this date in 2004. Thanks for all you do Charles.

in that case and in that vein...........this is for you

254 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:43:49pm

re: #219 DistantThunder

I have always refused to answer any poll on the grounds that it is not good for the country. as it discourages people to think for themselves and instead encourages group-think.

255 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:43:51pm

re: #116 David Simon

It was an Island vacation to Mautitius (NE of Madagascar). Very nice and relaxing. Lots of fish dinners.

256 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:44:28pm

re: #248 Cast Iron Magnolia

There's always room for a friend.....I'll even bring cake. Or cornbread and peas.

There's a nice safe place in Israel where y'all can hang out. Kind of a natural fortress, called Masada.

258 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:44:33pm

re: #248 Cast Iron Magnolia

There's always room for a friend.....I'll even bring cake. Or cornbread and peas.

Cornbread and peas are not allowed north of Beersheva!

259 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:44:38pm

re: #237 smokefire

....then make some room in the suitcase for me then.

I'll come too.

This election, I'm always thinking of that Chinese saying, "May you live in interesting times." Wonder why?/

260 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:44:53pm

re: #238 Sharmuta

Battleground 2008 poll shows STATISTICAL TIE, with 5% undecided

I'll take what I can get, but what the hell is up with the "undecideds"? What can you possibly be undecided about at this stage of the game?

261 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:04pm

re: #256 Moe Katz

There's a nice safe place in Israel where y'all can hang out. Kind of a natural fortress, called Masada.

bring your own shade and water

262 DisgustingOratory  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:13pm

re: #183looking closely

I doubt how real the Bradley effect is, except that it will be the big excuse when all the polls are proven wrong.

They use a lot of bogus premises when the "weight" their data- and the assumption that it will be as cool as declaring "Obama!" on the phone when it comes to waiting in line at the polls I believe to be the big flaw. If the American Idol vote was held at polling places, turnout would be pretty low- and that's the exact same group we're talking about.

263 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:25pm

re: #247 arethusa

Also, CNN ran a story earlier that Ed Rendell, Gov. of PA, is worried about PA and wants Obama to come back and campaign there some more. Rendell is a pretty blunt guy, usually if he says something he means it.

Yes, and wouldn't it just be cake if Murtha lost his seat? After all, he's called Western Pennsylvanians racist and redneck, last week and this.

264 Eyes of Blue  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:37pm

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

No, but I am sitting here waiting for a lady to call and let me know she is done with her IRS audit.

We are suppose to go on our "first date" tonight and that's what we are going to see.

Unless she is too bummed out about the audit (or the IRS puts her in prison).


Ever notice when you put the word "the" and IRS together it spells theirs?

265 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:43pm

re: #241 Nevergiveup

Then I do hope the instructions on the Israeli fire trucks, are in English.

I'll be all set.

They light em
I fight em.

They set um,
I wet em.

266 Soona'  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:44pm

re: #223 Cast Iron Magnolia

Well, "my people" are in Scotland! But, if Israel would adopt me, I'd be honored to stand with them against whatever may come.

Me too.

267 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:45:55pm

re: #262 DisgustingOratory

There will be the "Hussein" effect also. IMHO.

268 Perplexed  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:46:00pm

re: #260 David Simon

I'll take what I can get, but what the hell is up with the "undecideds"? What can you possibly be undecided about at this stage of the game?

They vote the lesser of two evils while holding their nose.

269 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:46:14pm

re: #178 hermeneutics

There's always a chance that Hillary will be so turned off by Obama's supporters that she sees the light and becomes a Republican. We'd welcome her -- sans health care nationalization.

She becomes a Republican when monkeys fly out of my butt.

270 joncelli  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:46:27pm

Whoa. Major hamster hiccup.

271 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:46:33pm

re: #250 DistantThunder

DT -- On another thread, you mentioned that the Mormon Church has publications out on survival skills. Could you send me the URL? Thanks. Blue nic.

272 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:46:37pm

re: #265 smokefire

Then I do hope the instructions on the Israeli fire trucks, are in English.

I'll be all set.

They light em
I fight em.

They set um,
I wet em.

I thougth it likes peeing, just point and let it go?

273 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:47:09pm

re: #257 Sharmuta

Holy Hell! Philadelphia Daily News columnist calls Pennsylvanians "crackers"!

Why does everyone pick on PA in this election? We're bitter, we're clingy, we like guns, we like God, we're racists, we're rednecks, and now we're crackers too.

274 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:47:20pm

re: #236 StudSupreme

Wait. Here's what I'm getting at:

The AP is continuing its Pravda - inspired Witch Hunt against Republicans, yet rather than show journalistic integrity by also investigating Ayers, Wright, ACORN or any of another half dozen things on Obama, they write a worshipful fluff piece.


THIS IS EVIL.

How do we keep a free press and yet permit them to violate their sacred trust by choosing sides and suborning/corrupting the political process?

I find myself deeply disturbed, even a bit frightened, by all this. And I'm no sissy - 6'2", 225, not a wimp by any means.

We need to turn ourselves into a learning organization - the lbogosphere has been critical but it has been only a piece of it. We've been blindsided by the ACORN insurgency - and shocked by the Vichy conservatives that have turned on us. Our biggest problem is that a HUGE portion of the population does not understand prosperty, job creation, and capital. Mitt Romney is a financial genius -and Mike Huckabee mocked him to conservatives on the campaign trail as someone who fires you.

Republicans have to take total responsibility for the economic education of the ppopulation because the leftists in charge of public school will only teach them lies with a desire to enslave them.

275 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:47:22pm

re: #10 Chris in Toronto

Read the article on the Powell's Obama endorsement, the simplest reason would be that he chose to do it for personal conviction or gain.

276 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:47:22pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

It was an Island vacation to Mautitius (NE of Madagascar). Very nice and relaxing. Lots of fish dinners.

I've only seen pictures. Looks like a lovely place. It's a Muslim country, right?

277 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:47:31pm

re: #261 Nevergiveup

bring your own shade and water

wait a minute, I thought there was a whole lot of those ancient Cisterns there that held lots of water?

I watch the History Channel too.

278 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:47:35pm

re: #269 looking closely

She becomes a Republican when monkeys fly out of my butt.

Then please wear pants.

279 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:48:18pm

re: #273 arethusa

Why does everyone pick on PA in this election? We're bitter, we're clingy, we like guns, we like God, we're racists, we're rednecks, and now we're crackers too.

Whining about it means you're racist! ;p

280 DistantThunder  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:48:36pm

re: #260 David Simon

I'll take what I can get, but what the hell is up with the "undecideds"? What can you possibly be undecided about at this stage of the game?

I guarantee and I hate to say it but I suspect many of them are women.

281 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:48:52pm

So why would the USA vote to confine ouselves, all of us, with cheapo-service health plan, or labyrinthine tax raises, taking a trillion dollars from our families, for nothing? Obama and team are going to remove 1 trillion dollars from us. Why would a people voluntarily submit to this. That is exactly what this is: "Submission" from the Islamic rituals. Obama, from whatever study of Muslim tenets is cooking us up like a lobster. A little freedom removed here, somemore there, until we are in "Submission". Isn't there a translation of an islamic word that says 'I submit"?

282 wolfie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:48:52pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

You promised you would tell us about the fish.
Grilled? Baked? Sauces?
What kind of fish?


I love fish.

283 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:48:53pm

re: #272 Nevergiveup

use to be, but ever since the Prostate surgery, the old hose just aint what it use to be. LOL

284 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:48:59pm

re: #246 El Lizardo mejicano

McCain served during the Cuban Missile Crisis? I didn't know that.

285 thedude  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:00pm

maybe BHO will take Clinton's recommendation of travel agents for his trip to Hawaii and use the same agent recommended to Ron Brown...

/js

286 poopeedoo  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:01pm

re: #16 Occasional Reader

Exactly. That's what schoolchildren may be taught circa 2010:

"Where is Obama?"

Obama is everywhere.

What? Obama's omniscient, too?

287 Geepers  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:19pm

David Simon (#260),

I'll take what I can get, but what the hell is up with the "undecideds"? What can you possibly be undecided about at this stage of the game?

The vast majority of people have no interest in politics whatsoever and only decide who they'll vote for in the last two weeks.

288 neocon hippie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:19pm

Polls are not an attempt to reflect reality; they are an attempt to influence reality.

289 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:22pm

re: #276 David Simon

They're mostly Indian brought to work in the sugar cane fields. Mostly Hindu, with assorted Christians, Muslims and Buddhists mixed in. Very friendly and shy people.

290 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:55pm

re: #268 Perplexed

They vote the lesser of two evils while holding their nose.

That's what I'm doing, and to me, the choice is still clear.

291 HDrepub  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:49:56pm

re: #269 looking closely

She becomes a Republican when monkeys fly out of my butt.

The Rodhams were Republican.

292 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:50:16pm

Even the Dems acknowledge that polling sucks:

[Link: dir.salon.com...]

In Georgia, pollsters had predicted Gov. Roy Barnes, the Democrat, would handily beat challenger Sonny Perdue: A Mason-Dixon poll had Barnes leading by 9 points, while one conducted by the Atlanta Constitution had him up by 11. Once the votes were counted, however, it was Perdue beating Barnes by 5 points -- a humiliating 16-point air ball for the pollsters.

They were just as prescient in Colorado, where an MSNBC/Zogby poll had Democratic challenger Tom Strickland trouncing incumbent Sen. Wayne Allard 53 percent to 44 percent. In reality, Allard strolled to a relatively stress-free 5-point win -- a 14-point blunder.

And in Illinois, another Zogby poll had the governor's race pitting Republican Jim Ryan against Democrat Rod Blagojevich as a statistical dead heat -- a finding that was, statistically, dead wrong. Blagojevich won, and Ryan and Zogby lost by 7 percentage points.

The pollsters' numbers were so off the mark that even they were forced to admit the obvious. "There was a lot of bad polling this year," acknowledged Mark Mellman, a Democratic pollster. "We blew it," said John Zogby.

Here's another one, from Huffington post, about the ridiculous volatility of the Gallup polls:
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Just how volatile where Gallup's results? Here are a few examples:

On August 8 Gallup had Bush 2 points ahead of Gore. Six days later, on August 13 they had Bush 16 points ahead. But one week later, on August 20, they had Gore back ahead by one.

The craziness didn't end with the nominating conventions either. On September 21 Gallup had Bush ahead of Gore by 10 points. Four days later, on September 25, Gore was back in the lead by 3. Then on October 5 Gallup had Bush ahead by 11. The next day, on October 6, his lead was down to one, and one day later, on October 7, Gore was ahead by 7.

Here's my favorite. On October 24 Gallup had Gore ahead of Bush by one point. Three days later, on October 27, they had Bush ahead by 13.

In their final pre-election poll Gallup gave Bush a 2 point lead--not too bad since Gore won the popular vote by less than a point. But two days earlier, Gallup had Bush ahead by 5.

293 rightymouse  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:50:22pm

re: #238 Sharmuta

Battleground 2008 poll shows STATISTICAL TIE, with 5% undecided

Thanks! I've forwarded this link to a friend who is working with McCain's campaign.

294 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:50:45pm

re: #258 Nevergiveup

Cornbread and peas are not allowed north of Beersheva!

Uh-oh.........Israel may not even let me in the country! Woe is me.

295 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:50:52pm

re: #277 smokefire

wait a minute, I thought there was a whole lot of those ancient Cisterns there that held lots of water?

I watch the History Channel too.

I watch the History Channel too.. So far every time I run outside to view UFO's they are never around...
It's a conspiracy I tell you..
/I don't really watch the History channel..

296 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:51:39pm

re: #280 DistantThunder

I guarantee and I hate to say it but I suspect many of them are women.

Oh now you've gone and done it. ;->

297 The Archivist  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:51:48pm

#259, arethusa

"This election, I'm always thinking of that Chinese saying, 'May you live in interesting times.' Wonder why?/

That's supposed to be a sly curse, I'm pretty sure. And we certainly do living in interesting times!

298 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:51:51pm

re: #277 smokefire

wait a minute, I thought there was a whole lot of those ancient Cisterns there that held lots of water?

I watch the History Channel too.

Held is the operative word- no longer. There is a nice cafeteria at the bottom of Masada. But boy what a slep to get a snack!

299 mama winger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:52:00pm

re: #273 arethusa

Why does everyone pick on PA in this election? We're bitter, we're clingy, we like guns, we like God, we're racists, we're rednecks, and now we're crackers too.

I just might have to move to Pennsylvania :)

300 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:52:16pm

re: #229 Querent

commercial kitchen? yeah, we will be talking... i've been looking for one of those...

Looking forward to meeting ... I did send you map and directions ... yes?

301 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:52:32pm

re: #130 Adrenalyn

media uses race card again

[Link: voices.kansascity.com...]

Is there anything that isn't a code word?

302 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:53:03pm

re: #299 mama winger

I just might have to move to Pennsylvania :)

We could use more mama wingers. :-)

303 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:53:21pm

re: #291 HDrepub

The Rodhams were Republican.


She's a Clinton now.

Why would she give up her entire power base, including all her wealthy leftist donors, to grovel at the feet of the Republicans, whose base absolutely despises her? In a Republican primary, any legitimate Republican challenger would flick her off like a gnat.

Switching party allegiance would be the quickest way to ensure that NOBODY votes for her.

304 mama winger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:53:28pm

re: #302 arethusa

We could use more mama wingers. :-)

Be careful what you wish for - LOL

305 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:53:36pm

re: #294 Cast Iron Magnolia

Uh-oh.........Israel may not even let me in the country! Woe is me.

Actually I met a nice southern girl in Northern Israel once. Way south like from mexico and she was Jewish also! I was in love.

306 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:53:36pm

re: #256 Moe Katz

There's a nice safe place in Israel where y'all can hang out. Kind of a natural fortress, called Masada.

Sounds like the perfect place for us!

307 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:53:47pm

300
i've got the local area map -- have to check to see if you've sent an update and if how to get to said local area from a major freeway is included.

308 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:54:28pm

re: #304 mama winger

Be careful what you wish for - LOL

I am..
Need more mamawingers!
good evening..

309 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:55:01pm

re: #287 Geepers

David Simon (#260),

The vast majority of people have no interest in politics whatsoever and only decide who they'll vote for in the last two weeks.

The undecided vote is probably less than ten percent now. This is a very hot, politicized race. All have taken sides.

310 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:55:14pm

re: #298 Nevergiveup

I hear you. Better half (the Jewish half), took one look at the cable car run from the ground to the top, and said 3 words NO F***ING WAY.

311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:55:46pm

I'm so excited. I just got here. Saw the "Joe the Bummer" thread a couple flights down. I called Biden "Joe the Bummer" yesterday morning.

So, I am going to take credit for the nic.

It means absolutely nothing (except to me) and I am sure that nobody cares (except for me) and I showed it to my wife and she called me an idiot (which I am). So...

Yay Me!

Ok, enough of that, I'm hungry. Anybody got anything to eat?

312 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:04pm

re: #273 arethusa

Why does everyone pick on PA in this election? We're bitter, we're clingy, we like guns, we like God, we're racists, we're rednecks, and now we're crackers too.

Hey, don't complain - you could be a *gasp* "Mississippian"

/

313 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:04pm

re: #273 arethusa

Why does everyone pick on PA in this election? We're bitter, we're clingy, we like guns, we like God, we're racists, we're rednecks, and now we're crackers too.

There is a contact form at the end of that piece, I used it. I am tired of being called racial names one minute and a racist the next.

314 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:11pm

re: #299 mama winger

I just might have to move to Pennsylvania :)

Did I forget to mention that one of our baseball teams is really good? ;-)

(Well, this year, anyway.)

315 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:22pm

FVB -- here, have a lizard-green cupcake!

316 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:26pm

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black

The "socialist" label that Sen. John McCain and his GOP presidential running mate Sarah Palin are trying to attach to Sen. Barack Obama actually has long and very ugly historical roots.

J. Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI from 1924 to 1972, used the term liberally to describe African Americans who spent their lives fighting for equality.

/seriously, where the hell do they come up with this insanity

317 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:30pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

They're mostly Indian brought to work in the sugar cane fields. Mostly Hindu, with assorted Christians, Muslims and Buddhists mixed in. Very friendly and shy people.

Ah damn; I was thinking of Mauritania. Anyway, I hope to see both places one day.

318 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:42pm

re: #246 El Lizardo mejicano

US intelligence’s amended estimate, that Iran will be ready to build its first bomb just one month after the next US president is sworn in, is disclosed by DEBKAfile’s Washington sources as having been relayed as a guideline to the Middle East teams of both presidential candidates, Senators John McCain and Barack Obama.


Unfortunately, anything that comes from Debka is automatically suspect.
That site is fun to read, but its pure propaganda.

319 poopeedoo  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:43pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Nope, The polls were pretty accurate in 200 as well.

Were there polls back in 200? (Just askin')

320 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:56:53pm

re: #310 smokefire

I hear you. Better half (the Jewish half), took one look at the cable car run from the ground to the top, and said 3 words NO F***ING WAY.

Well you can walk or run up either the snake trial or the roman ramp.

321 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:57:22pm

re: #312 Cast Iron Magnolia

............and just think if the Phillies win the WS.

322 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:57:44pm

re: #282 wolfie

They have a lot of Marlin there. They smoke it, very tasty. They also like to take a piece of fish with curry spices, ginger and wrap it in a banana leaf with some rice. Very good street food. There's a lot of french influence so the restaurants serve as creole grilled fish thing with a tomato sauce. Baked fish with lemon an Bon Herbs (dill, marjoram, parsley, etc).

323 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:57:46pm

re: #319 poopeedoo

Were there polls back in 200? (Just askin')

Yup - there was one. It was called "The Emperor's Whim." ;-)

324 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:57:54pm

re: #319 poopeedoo

Were there polls back in 200? (Just askin')

No but they still had Polish jokes.

325 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:58:47pm

re: #303 looking closely

She's a Clinton now.

Why would she give up her entire power base, including all her wealthy leftist donors, to grovel at the feet of the Republicans, whose base absolutely despises her? In a Republican primary, any legitimate Republican challenger would flick her off like a gnat.

Switching party allegiance would be the quickest way to ensure that NOBODY votes for her.

She's got a lifetime gig in NY state after picking up Monihans (spelling?) seat. Her seat is as secure as those of our nine Supremes.

326 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:58:55pm

re: #321 smokefire

if the Phillies win the WS.

If my a**

327 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:58:58pm

re: #320 Nevergiveup

................snakes? I hate snakes
Indiana Jones

328 debutaunt  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:59:29pm

re: #319 poopeedoo

Were there polls back in 200? (Just askin')

Yes. They were actual poles.

329 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:59:30pm

re: #326 Stonemason

with a smile of course!

330 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:59:37pm

re: #321 smokefire

............and just think if the Phillies win the WS.

Like McCain in the polls, they are not the betting favorites. Rays are -1.35, Phils are +1.15. So I'd say that a Phillies win would be a good sign for underdogs everywhere. Oh, and the last time they won? 1980.

331 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:59:56pm

re: #325 hermeneutics

She's got a lifetime gig in NY state after picking up Monihans (spelling?) seat. Her seat is as secure as those of our nine Supremes.

I thought there were only 3 Supremes, even if Diana Ross thinks there was only one?

332 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:59:56pm

re: #309 hermeneutics

The undecided vote is probably less than ten percent now. This is a very hot, politicized race. All have taken sides.

Not to speak for Geepers, but I think he meant to say uninformed. And I wholeheartedly concur with that.

333 looking closely  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 4:59:59pm

re: #316 Killian Bundy

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black

/seriously, where the hell do they come up with this insanity

I know. This is crazy-talk.

/EVERYONE knows that when you call someone a "Socialist" you're really implying that they are JEWISH.

334 The Archivist  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:00:13pm

#316 Killian Bundy:

Good to see that the reader's of that article are having none of it. The insanity is being soundly rejected.

335 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:00:22pm

re: #326 Stonemason

oopsie, had to look closer at your avatar

336 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:00:26pm

re: #326 Stonemason

if the Phillies win the WS.

If my a**

Love your avatar!

337 HDrepub  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:00:31pm

re: #303 looking closely

She's a Clinton now.

Why would she give up her entire power base, including all her wealthy leftist donors, to grovel at the feet of the Republicans, whose base absolutely despises her? In a Republican primary, any legitimate Republican challenger would flick her off like a gnat.

Switching party allegiance would be the quickest way to ensure that NOBODY votes for her.

I'm wasn't saying she will change, only that her family were Republican. I am no fan of hers so I don't really care what she does, or doesn't do. If Obama wins this election, her national aspirations are over anyway, unless he screws up so badly the Donks want to be rid of him in 2012.

338 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:00:48pm

re: #169 Nevergiveup

No it's ok. She was the worst cook ever. Shit, she couldn't even make good reservations!

LOL.

339 SWPaul  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:01:01pm

re: #257 Sharmuta

Crackers? Keebler or Ritz?

340 Soona'  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:01:13pm

Auf wiedersehn'! Bis morgen.

341 joncelli  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:01:38pm

re: #311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Leek and potato flatbread with a sprinkling of organic cheddar cheese? (Yes, my wife is a vegetarian. Yes, I hate it.)

342 hermeneutics  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:01:53pm

re: #332 David Simon

Not to speak for Geepers, but I think he meant to say uninformed. And I wholeheartedly concur with that.

makes sense. I bet the undecideds are less than five percent anyway. McCain either won or lost the race by the end of the summer -- which is why I think he'll win. We all took a side, openly or clandestinely, after labor day. The so-called undecideds were those who took a side secretly. They'll break for McCain.

343 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:02:40pm

re: #336 arethusa

thanks...great time to have teenage boys and be a baseball fan!

344 capitalist piglet  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:03:11pm

re: #316 Killian Bundy

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black


/seriously, where the hell do they come up with this insanity

Who knew "that one" was racist?

Pretty soon, the Republican vocabulary is going to be down to about fifteen words.

345 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:03:17pm

Evening mates, whats going on and who's fighting, if anyone?

346 Cicero05  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:03:22pm

re: #342 hermeneutics

The so-called undecideds were those who took a side secretly. They'll break for McCain.

In the famous observation of Bush 41, "the undecideds can break either way."

347 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:03:23pm
...By almost a 2-1 margin in this poll, 62% to 32%, Americans said they preferred a universal system that would provide coverage to everyone under a government program, as opposed to the current employer-based system. ...

Scary, huh?
Poll: Public supports health care for all

348 joncelli  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:03:32pm

re: #318 looking closely

Debka is really connected in Israel so their domestic reports are surprisingly reliable; it's when they talk about anything else BUT Israel that you need a pillar of salt.

349 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:04:11pm

.........a lot of McCain supporters are just lurking in the tall grass, saying nothing, and waiting until election. Will not talk, nor admit to anything to stay out of "in your face" crazed Obamatons.

350 solomonpanting  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:04:17pm

re: #319 poopeedoo

Were there polls back in 200? (Just askin')

Yep, and they usually had heads at the tops.

351 rightymouse  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:04:41pm

re: #260 David Simon

I'll take what I can get, but what the hell is up with the "undecideds"? What can you possibly be undecided about at this stage of the game?

I thought the same thing not too long ago and voiced that here. Well...I met an undecided. She is not that well informed, but intelligent. Her life has been difficult. The irony is that she has an innate dislike of socialism but wants some kind of break for herself. She trusts me, so hopefully, I can sway her. You can't go too hard at undecideds, though. They truly are confused and any over-the-top stuff will turn them off.

352 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:04:42pm

O'Reilly just showd 0bama's blurb.

Good job Zombie!

353 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:04:59pm

re: #339 SWPaul

Crackers? Keebler or Ritz?

What kind goes best with iranian caviar?

354 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:05:11pm

re: #315 Querent

i like cupcakes!

355 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:05:43pm

re: #178 hermeneutics

There's always a chance that Hillary will be so turned off by Obama's supporters that she sees the light and becomes a Republican. We'd welcome her -- sans health care nationalization.

A few of my neurons fired out a really strange conspiracy conjecture:

The October 29th Televised Obamapalooza is where "The One©" announces Senator Biden will step down due to "health reasons" (foot-in mouth disease?) and Senator Clinton will be the replacement VP candidate. Seeing how "The One©" speaks fluent thug, and already has a coven of followers that will do anything no matter needed no matter how illegal to make sure "The One©" is anointed, it might be Hillary that has to hire a food taster and avoid national parks and airplanes should the Dem ticket win.

356 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:06:09pm

re: #352 jetprop

O'Reilly just showd 0bama's blurb.

Good job Zombie!

I musta missed sumpin...

357 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:06:23pm

Zombie's Ayer's - Obama connection is headlining OReilly.

358 MrSnuggles  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:06:45pm

re: #346 Cicero05

If they asked people if they want a 60% tax rate, theyd say no.

359 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:06:59pm

re: #357 pepper

LINK please.

360 gregg  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:07:19pm

If you could convince the pollsters that a lot of Democrats weren't going to go through the hassle of voting, because Obama has such a big lead, I wonder if the polls would suddenly tighten?

361 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:07:26pm

re: #357 pepper

Zombie's Ayer's - Obama connection is headlining OReilly.

Is he crediting zombie?

362 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:07:40pm

How many terms is a person limited to be the vice president?

363 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:07:42pm

re: #187 Moe Katz

Health care reform Government run health care is the sine qua non of what she stands for.

Fixed for ya'

364 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:07:45pm

re: #357 pepper

Zombie's Ayer's - Obama connection is headlining OReilly.


Must watch

365 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:07:54pm

re: #356 J.D.

I musta missed sumpin...

In the first five minutes of the show. Mr. O is highlighting a radio interview with Ayers.

366 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:15pm

re: #358 MrSnuggles

If they asked people if they want a 60% tax rate, theyd say no.

however with the master illusionist, they will be lulled into believing that the tax rate is good.

367 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:23pm

re: #352 jetprop

O'Reilly just showd 0bama's blurb.

Good job Zombie!

Way to go Zombie!

368 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:33pm

re: #365 jetprop

In the first five minutes of the show. Mr. O is highlighting a radio interview with Ayers.

OK...and where does zombie fit in? She/He was talking about something upcoming earlier today...

369 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:34pm

re: #362 MandyManners

How many terms is a person limited to be the vice president?

I'd guess the same 2 as president but that's only a guess

370 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:37pm

re: #362 MandyManners

How many terms is a person limited to be the vice president?

I'm not aware of a term limit for a VP...

371 alien_mind  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:47pm

re: #361 Fat Jolly Penguin

Is he crediting zombie?

No

372 kcladderman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:08:57pm

re: #355 FurryOldGuyJeans

A few of my neurons fired out a really strange conspiracy conjecture:

The October 29th Televised Obamapalooza is where "The One©" announces Senator Biden will step down due to "health reasons" (foot-in mouth disease?) and Senator Clinton will be the replacement VP candidate. Seeing how "The One©" speaks fluent thug, and already has a coven of followers that will do anything no matter needed no matter how illegal to make sure "The One©" is anointed, it might be Hillary that has to hire a food taster and avoid national parks and airplanes should the Dem ticket win.

I would take Hillary over Obama in any fight.

373 fish  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:09:05pm

re: #47 DisgustingOratory

Guys, make sure you don't refer to Obama as "socialist". It has been determined this is racist.

[Link: voices.kansascity.com...]

Of Course it is also racist to refer to him as:

Inexperienced
Liberal
Misguided
Posessing poor judgement
Hawiian
American
From a Midwestern state
or
Barack

374 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:09:06pm

re: #327 smokefire

................snakes? I hate snakes
Indiana Jones

I'll tell you a story..When I was a kid we went down to the gravel pits to swim.
One time me and my buddies were just about 5 feet from walking down the path to the water..and jumping in..When my friend Steve said look at all the baby snakes..and i bent over to check one out when a mama snake reared it's head from under the long grass.
I screamed and jumped 10 feet in the air.. I'll never forget the look on the snake as it looked straight up and totally freaked out as I sailed over it's head. The long jump record was set then and there...3 miles later I was safe at home..I hate snakes!

375 nyc redneck  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:09:08pm

re: #354 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

i like cupcakes!

how abt. gingerbread w/candied pears.

376 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:09:18pm

re: #361 Fat Jolly Penguin

Is he crediting zombie?

No mention.

377 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:09:44pm

re: #371 alien_mind

No

re: #376 jetprop

No mention.

Pleh.

378 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:10:20pm

re: #371 alien_mind

No

Well that sucks!

I also missed it so I shall have to watch it later.

379 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:10:24pm

re: #376 jetprop

No mention.

Will Zombie take offense or just be grateful that the news got out somewhere?

380 Nevergiveup  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:10:41pm

re: #370 Fat Jolly Penguin

I'm not aware of a term limit for a VP...

I think your right

381 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:10:43pm

re: #362 MandyManners

there is no limit in the Constitution on Vice Presidential terms.

382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:10:50pm

re: #375 nyc redneck

how abt. gingerbread w/candied pears.

Yep! Pass it!

383 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:01pm

I thought Laura Ingraham made a good point last night when she said the media has been all over Joe the plumber but they've shown no interest in Bill Ayers.

I wish I hadn't missed the zombie thing...

384 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:13pm

re: #362 MandyManners

How many terms is a person limited to be the vice president?

No limit. Could be a flaw in the 22nd Amendment, I guess.

385 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:16pm

dessert thread!

386 Cast Iron Magnolia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:36pm

G'nite, Lizards.

Keep the faith. We're gonna WIN.

387 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:38pm

re: #202 SpartanWoman

Hey she was a Goldwater girl, ya know

People told me that if I supported Goldwater there'd be a war in Vietnam and I'd have to go. They were right.

388 Chris in Toronto  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:40pm

re: #275 pepper

thanks.

389 kcladderman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:45pm

re: #373 fish

Of Course it is also racist to refer to him as:

Inexperienced
Liberal
Misguided
Posessing poor judgement
Hawiian
American
From a Midwestern state
or
Barack

That guy is always crying racism about something in everyone of his columns.

390 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:11:51pm

Of Course it is also racist to refer to him as:

Inexperienced
Liberal
Misguided
Posessing poor judgement
Hawiian
American
From a Midwestern state
or
Barack Hussein
Former cocaine user
Community Organizer
Heavy Smoker
Muslim
Present

391 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:12:02pm

re: #379 SpartanWoman

Will Zombie take offense or just be grateful that the news got out somewhere?

hmmm..dunno.

Probably be glad it got out.
/just speculating.

392 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:12:03pm

re: #385 Querent

dessert thread!


M&Ms with Almonds

393 nyc redneck  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:12:09pm

re: #382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yep! Pass it!

here you go, w/ a dollop of whipped cream.
you can take that off if you're worried abt. the calories.
;)

394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:12:40pm

re: #386 Cast Iron Magnolia

G'nite, Lizards.

Keep the faith. We're gonna WIN.

DIG!

395 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:12:43pm

re: #362 MandyManners

How many terms is a person limited to be the vice president?

22nd Amendment:

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

No mention of the VP.

396 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:12:44pm

re: #299 mama winger

I just might have to move to Pennsylvania :)

We would love to have you here but in the Philly suburbs there are a lot of moonbats. We keep our political leanings to ourselves until we find fellow Republicans. Our oldest son has had some unfortunate incidents where some of his middle school teachers seemed to find his views too moderate for their tastes and gave him either bad grades or worse. My "favorite" was one teacher who made him Larry Craig for the mock senate his grade did last year. The principal is still apologizing to me but did anything happen to the teacher? Nope.

397 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:13:19pm

I pray that the accurate poll is the straw poll on AOL.

398 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:13:30pm

re: #389 kcladderman

Love the Avatar KC.

Brother in Arms from New England

399 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:13:32pm

re: #385 Querent

dessert thread!

PUMPKIN PIE.

400 capitalist piglet  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:13:43pm

re: #377 Fat Jolly Penguin

Pleh.

I think the actual story about Obama's endorsement of Ayers' book has been out for a bit, though it was buried - I know I read about it a couple of weeks ago, somewhere (I can't remember where), but I never saw the photo/blurb until zombie came up with it. That really hit it home - and I would imagine that the timing suggests it's zombie's scoop O'Reilly is basing his story on.

401 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:14:38pm

re: #400 capitalist piglet

I think the actual story about Obama's endorsement of Ayers' book has been out for a bit, though it was buried - I know I read about it a couple of weeks ago, somewhere (I can't remember where), but I never saw the photo/blurb until zombie came up with it. That really hit it home - and I would imagine that the timing suggests it's zombie's scoop O'Reilly is basing his story on.

I hope he shows the office building too

402 Querent  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:14:44pm

#400
so can we question the timing?

403 Bobibutu  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:14:47pm

re: #374 HoosierHoops

I'll tell you a story..When I was a kid we went down to the gravel pits to swim.
One time me and my buddies were just about 5 feet from walking down the path to the water..and jumping in..When my friend Steve said look at all the baby snakes..and i bent over to check one out when a mama snake reared it's head from under the long grass.
I screamed and jumped 10 feet in the air.. I'll never forget the look on the snake as it looked straight up and totally freaked out as I sailed over it's head. The long jump record was set then and there...3 miles later I was safe at home..I hate snakes!

It's amazing what a little Adrenalin will do and how fast acting it is. ... I also have an almost stepped on a snake and got airborne in mid stride experience - can relate.

404 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:14:48pm

re: #374 HoosierHoops

I'll tell you a story..When I was a kid we went down to the gravel pits to swim.
One time me and my buddies were just about 5 feet from walking down the path to the water..and jumping in..When my friend Steve said look at all the baby snakes..and i bent over to check one out when a mama snake reared it's head from under the long grass.
I screamed and jumped 10 feet in the air.. I'll never forget the look on the snake as it looked straight up and totally freaked out as I sailed over it's head. The long jump record was set then and there...3 miles later I was safe at home..I hate snakes!

Almost as good as when my first girlfriend and I were engaging in extracurricular activities in a lake at sunset, and a water moccasin comes swimming by! We didn't miss a beat mate!

405 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:14:58pm

Are ya'll watching O'Reilly? You seeing this shit commercial against Sarah Palin?

How fucked up are these people?

406 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:15:07pm

re: #363 Son of the Black Dog

Fixed for ya'

Probably not. A single payer system would be difficult to implement in the USA because of the entrenched interests of the insurance companies. It likely end up as a complicated scheme in which the private sector would still participate extensively.

407 joncelli  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:15:26pm

re: #362 MandyManners

Why would anybody want to do it for more than 8 years? ;-) (As far as I can tell, the 22nd Amendment applies only to presidents, so the VP can serve as often as he/she wants.)

408 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:15:33pm

Apple Crisp, with a little Bourbon on top, and some whipped cream......................

There you go Fat Bastard Vegetarian, enjoy

409 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:15:46pm

re: #347 J.D.

Scary, huh?
Poll: Public supports health care for all

Too much nonsense in that link to blockquote; I'll leave it at this:

While a solid majority of people tended to be happy with their own quality of health care, the poll found "significant concern with the system more broadly

In other words, the Fourth Estate has become a Fifth Column: Over a quarter billion Americans are covered by the finest health care system in the world, and the rest have access to it, and are either too lazy or too stupid to figure it out. There is no health care crisis! But the media keep parroting the Democratic talking points, and so most people think something needs to be "fixed." Madness!

410 kcladderman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:15:49pm

re: #398 smokefire

Love the Avatar KC.

Brother in Arms from New England

20 years KCFD

411 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:15:54pm

Megyn Kelly is ripping a new are into the idiots that made this pos.

413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:16:36pm

re: #408 smokefire

Apple Crisp, with a little Bourbon on top, and some whipped cream......................

There you go Fat Bastard Vegetarian, enjoy

NOM NOM NOM!

414 alien_mind  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:16:37pm

does Newt Gingrich publish a bookre: #405 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Are ya'll watching O'Reilly? You seeing this shit commercial against Sarah Palin?

How fucked up are these people?

one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen.

415 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:16:49pm

re: #396 livefreeor die

where in the burbs...if you don't mind me asking. I'm in the Brandywine valley area.

At the McCain rally last week I ran into one of the middle school principals...I was seriously shocked.

416 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:17:18pm

re: #406 Moe Katz

Probably not. A single payer system would be difficult to implement in the USA because of the entrenched interests of the insurance companies. It likely end up as a complicated scheme in which the private sector would still participate extensively.

In moments of "What if Barry win" panic I remind myself of what happened when Hillary tried to change the health care system with a Democratic Congress. They got mired down by the insurance companies, AMA, and hospital lobbies.

417 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:17:38pm

re: #410 kcladderman

22 years and counting Norwich, CT. FD
9 years Naval Submarine Base FD.

418 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:17:46pm

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

NOM NOM NOM!


Then how about some bread pudding with chunks of white chocolate buried inside and a rich, with chocolate sauce on top?

419 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:18:04pm

re: #418 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Bourbon sauce on top!

421 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:18:28pm

The Kid asked that question but I could find nothing about it in the Constitution.

Thanks, Lizards!

422 nyc redneck  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:18:31pm

re: #408 smokefire

Apple Crisp, with a little Bourbon on top, and some whipped cream......................

There you go Fat Bastard Vegetarian, enjoy

i'll swap you some gingerbread for a small serving of the apple crisp, heavy on the bourbon.

423 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:18:34pm

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

heh heh heh, eating out my hand.

I am so bad

424 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:18:39pm

re: #414 alien_mind

does Newt Gingrich publish a book


one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen.


Do these pepole (and I use that term loosly) know no bounds at all?

425 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:18:50pm

re: #415 Stonemason

where in the burbs...if you don't mind me asking. I'm in the Brandywine valley area.

At the McCain rally last week I ran into one of the middle school principals...I was seriously shocked.

We have a good middle school principal too. I'm over near Valley Forge.

426 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:19:09pm

Bilge O'Rally cannot give credit where credit is due.

427 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:19:12pm

re: #406 Moe Katz

Probably not. A single payer system would be difficult to implement in the USA because of the entrenched interests of the insurance companies people. It likely end up as a complicated scheme in which the private sector would still participate extensively.

428 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:19:38pm

re: #426 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Bilge O'Rally cannot give credit where credit is due.

That stinks but at least he covered the story.

429 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:19:44pm

Megyn needs to find her safe place, a babbling brook with a gentle breeze.

430 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:19:51pm

re: #426 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Bilge O'Rally cannot give credit where credit is due.

He knows everything. Just ask him and he'll tell you...everything...

431 Stonemason  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:19:56pm

re: #425 livefreeor die

nice area, a little busy, but nice!

432 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:20:17pm

re: #429 MandyManners

Megyn needs to find her safe place, a babbling brook with a gentle breeze.

Is she worked up?

433 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:20:34pm

re: #351 rightymouse

The irony is that she has an innate dislike of socialism but wants some kind of break for herself.

Yes, of course. Give ME something, and make someone else pay for it. Unfortunately, she's not the only one who's buying the bullshit that Obama is peddling.

You might want to ask her how far she thinks the piddling shit Obama is promising her will go if her "rich" employer cuts back, and as a result, she doesn't have a job.

434 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:20:37pm

re: #419 J.D.

Bourbon sauce on top!


I meant white hock sauce on top..the lacing of said white choc with bourbon is a given

435 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:21:02pm

re: #429 MandyManners

Megyn needs to find her safe place, a babbling brook with a gentle breeze.

No, don't calm her down. Set her on Biden or Pelosi or Barney Frank!

436 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:21:11pm

re: #432 J.D.

Is she worked up?

She was steaming about that lie-packed ad.

437 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:21:18pm

re: #434 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

I meant white hock sauce on top..the lacing of said white choc with bourbon is a given

I never had bourbon sauce with white chocolate, but it sounds like something good!

438 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:21:29pm

re: #435 livefreeor die

No, don't calm her down. Set her on Biden or Pelosi or Barney Frank!

BHO.

439 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:21:43pm

re: #436 MandyManners

She was steaming about that lie-packed ad.

I hope a lot of other women are, too.
Well, and men...

440 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:21:51pm

re: #432 J.D.

Is she worked up?


Pretty dam worked up...I don't blame her. How can a parent whore their child like those parents did?

441 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:22:29pm

re: #440 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Pretty dam worked up...I don't blame her. How can a parent whore their child like those parents did?

I'm not watching this...are you and Mandy talking about the same thing?

442 kansas  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:22:31pm

Thought I'd share this bit of idiocy from my local paper.

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black

By Lewis Diuguid, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist

The "socialist" label that Sen. John McCain and his GOP presidential running mate Sarah Palin are trying to attach to Sen. Barack Obama actually has long and very ugly historical roots.

J. Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI from 1924 to 1972, used the term liberally to describe African Americans who spent their lives fighting for equality.

Those freedom fighters included the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., who led the Civil Rights Movement; W.E.B. Du Bois, who in 1909 helped found the NAACP which is still the nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization; Paul Robeson, a famous singer, actor and political activist who in the 1930s became involved in national and international movements for better labor relations, peace and racial justice; and A. Philip Randolph, who founded and was the longtime head of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and a leading advocate for civil rights for African Americans.

McCain and Palin have simply reached back in history to use an old code word for black. It set whites apart from those deemed unAmerican and those who could not be trusted during the communism scare.

Shame on McCain and Palin.

443 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:22:49pm

re: #439 J.D.

I hope a lot of other women are, too.
Well, and men...

I'm thinking this is gonna' back-fire for a lot of independents.

444 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:23:00pm

re: #441 J.D.

I'm not watching this...are you and Mandy talking about the same thing?

Yep.

445 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:23:05pm

re: #416 livefreeor die

In moments of "What if Barry win" panic I remind myself of what happened when Hillary tried to change the health care system with a Democratic Congress. They got mired down by the insurance companies, AMA, and hospital lobbies.

You won't see true 'single payer' in the US because of those lobbies, but some kind of universal health care coverage bringing the US up to the norms of the rest of the developed world is pretty well a foregone conclusion.

446 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:23:13pm

re: #437 J.D.

I never had bourbon sauce with white chocolate, but it sounds like something good!

It's hard to do, my mom is a pro at it...just ad the white chocolate to it. So she says......whatever.It's almost better than sex.

447 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:23:18pm

re: #442 kansas

BS

448 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:23:37pm

re: #442 kansas

Fucking ignorant numb-nuts.

449 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:24:19pm

re: #446 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

It's hard to do, my mom is a pro at it...just ad the white chocolate to it. So she says......whatever.It's almost better than sex.

:D

450 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:24:29pm

re: #441 J.D.

I'm not watching this...are you and Mandy talking about the same thing?


Megs is railing about the commercial that was released on the internet that pretty much accused Sarah of riding on the coat tails of their moms, doing nothing about the rapes in Alaska etc...I'll try to find it on You Tube...it's truly vile.

451 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:24:36pm

re: #404 loflyer

Almost as good as when my first girlfriend and I were engaging in extracurricular activities in a lake at sunset, and a water moccasin comes swimming by! We didn't miss a beat mate!

LOL
I'm not telling any first girlfriend stories here..
My wife probably archives this site anyway..LOL
Nice resume my friend...You have the world in front of you...Sent to my friend..
kind regards..
/ I have a suite to the indy500 every year...you got my number..

452 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:24:42pm

re: #405 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Are ya'll watching O'Reilly? You seeing this shit commercial against Sarah Palin?

How fucked up are these people?

I was listening to Boortz on the commute in this morning, and some liberal moon bat calls in and proclaims his hate for conservatives, and Neal just keeps leading him on! The ass-hole claims any one against Obama is racist and announces he will glory in the suffering of conservatives in the future! Boortz was masterful in showing what we have to look forward to if Obama is elected. If you thought the Clinton administration a little corrupt, and wondered why the Clinton admin had over 1000 FBI investigative reports on political opponents, You haven't seen nothing till Obama is elected! Poor Joe-Plumber will now face the FBI. If America elects Obama it will be interesting and I advise everyone to start studying "anti-surveillance Spy-craft". It might save your ass in the future!

453 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:00pm

re: #442 kansas

Oh, for Pete's sakes. How pathetic can it get? So I'm racist for calling Bill Ayers or Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank a socialist?

454 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:08pm

re: #445 Moe Katz

You won't see true 'single payer' in the US because of those lobbies, but some kind of universal health care coverage bringing the US up to the norms of the rest of the developed world is pretty well a foregone conclusion.

Commie!

455 alien_mind  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:10pm

re: #424 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Do these pepole (and I use that term loosly) know no bounds at all?


its really sad how far things have declined, that those kind of smears and lies can be made and published for millions to see. and to stopp to using young kids as well!

remember the saying, its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game? well at this point there are many many people that could give a crap about how the game is played, its all about telling whatever lie you can, the more outrageous the better....as long as you wipe out your opponent all is fair.

456 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:12pm

Everything is racist. Absolutely everything.

457 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:30pm

ok, since I did not add this to the LGF cookbook

6 medium apples, peeled and cored
6 tblspns butter, chilled and cut in 6 pieces
1/2 cup flour
1/3 cup chopped walnuts
6 tblspns brown sugar
1/2 tspn ground cinnamon
1/2 tspn nutmeg
Bourbon over the top

pre heat oven to 350,
take dry ingredients, place in food processor, and process until mixture looks like coarse bread crumbs

spray 9/13 baking dish, arrange apple slices in over lapping rows.
sprinkle mixture over apples, and drizzle bourbon over top.
Bake for 20 minutes or until golden brown.

Enjoy

458 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:47pm

re: #454 Spare O'Lake

Commie!


Why, thank you :)

459 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:51pm

re: #445 Moe Katz

You won't see true 'single payer' in the US because of those lobbies, but some kind of universal health care coverage bringing the US up to the norms of the rest of the developed world is pretty well a foregone conclusion.

Up to the norms of the rest of the developed world, which has worse healthcare.

460 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:25:52pm

re: #452 loflyer

I was listening to Boortz on the commute in this morning, and some liberal moon bat calls in and proclaims his hate for conservatives, and Neal just keeps leading him on! The ass-hole claims any one against Obama is racist and announces he will glory in the suffering of conservatives in the future! Boortz was masterful in showing what we have to look forward to if Obama is elected. If you thought the Clinton administration a little corrupt, and wondered why the Clinton admin had over 1000 FBI investigative reports on political opponents, You haven't seen nothing till Obama is elected! Poor Joe-Plumber will now face the FBI. If America elects Obama it will be interesting and I advise everyone to start studying "anti-surveillance Spy-craft". It might save your ass in the future!


My BF can get me and the kids underground faster than fast....if needs be.

461 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:26:03pm

re: #428 livefreeor die

re: #430 J.D.

Bill runs a mostly decent show, but he likes the sound of his own voice above all else.

462 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:26:11pm

re: #453 livefreeor die

Oh, for Pete's sakes. How pathetic can it get? So I'm racist for calling Bill Ayers or Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank a socialist?

Now now now...you mustn't be so literal...

463 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:26:38pm

re: #32 SpartanWoman

It is such a jumbled convoluted mixed mess of a party! I think you have gleaned some truth there. Look at what even Hillary has her self wedged next to because of her outstanding political funds. She still is making her obligatory campaign rally with him and she was the one who used his Ayers against him in the primaries. Then Biden balked about his lack of experience, and then gets picked as his VP?. Keep your enemy close? They are one big bed of political snakes trying to figure out who is the poisonous coral and who is not. If we weren't on top of the media stories as they are posted, we perhaps too would have a hard time knowing the good snake from the bad in the democratic party. The only two who seem to be singing out extra loud his praises and premature win is Pelosi and Reid.

464 jorline  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:26:41pm

Good evening, Lizards.

465 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:26:48pm

re: #461 Kreuzueber Halbmond

re: #430 J.D.

Bill runs a mostly decent show, but he likes the sound of his own voice above all else.

You're kidding.
/

466 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:26:50pm

re: #459 Scion9

Up to the norms of the rest of the developed world, which has worse healthcare.


Wrong.

467 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:27:08pm

re: #445 Moe Katz

You won't see true 'single payer' in the US because of those lobbies, but some kind of universal health care coverage bringing the US up to the norms of the rest of the developed world is pretty well a foregone conclusion.

How about that "single payer" be the one receiving the service?
Open insurance up to competition so it is more affordable.

468 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:27:15pm

WSJ: Obama Won't Ban Guns, 'I Don't Have the Votes in Congress'

“If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said. “This can’t be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. I’m not going to take away your guns.’’

/in 14 days, he could very well have the votes

469 legalpad  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:27:16pm

re: #442 kansas

What's the code word? I didn't spot a code word.

470 jaunte  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:27:37pm

re: #461 Kreuzueber Halbmond

I like his show with Megyn Kelly and Mary Katherine Ham and without Bill.

471 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:27:37pm

The PUMAs provide some background information about the Battleground Poll out today showing Mac within 1%:

The "battleground" poll is conducted by GWU to bring recognition to the university. If they are partisan or get it wrong it does NOTHING to help the schools poli-sci department. GWU has gained prominence because they have been consistantly correctly in last 4 elections.

No other poll (large or small) has been this accurate in last 4 elections. Some have good year then bad year. Zogby did amazing in 2000 then was way outside the MOE in 2004. Rasmussen got 2004 right but way way off in 2000

472 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:27:46pm

re: #466 Moe Katz

Wrong.

Oh? Do tell.

473 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:28:21pm

The daughter has to use the net to get her math homework...I told her that if she leaves her math text book at school again she's grounded.
Nite all!

474 smokefire  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:28:59pm

Time to go back and watch the next few chapters of Band of Brothers on DVD..

BE SAFE ALL LIZARDS.

I'm outta here.

475 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:29:24pm

re: #469 legalpad

Word Up! It's the code word. Wherever you may say it, you know that you'll be heard. Now, all you sucka DJ's who think your fly, there has got to be a reason and you know the reason why.

You try to put on those airs and act all cool, but you got to realize that your acting like a fool!

W-O-R-D U-P!

476 jcm  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:29:40pm

re: #442 kansas

Thought I'd share this bit of idiocy from my local paper.

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black

By Lewis Diuguid, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist

The "socialist" label that Sen. John McCain and his GOP presidential running mate Sarah Palin are trying to attach to Sen. Barack Obama actually has long and very ugly historical roots.

J. Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI from 1924 to 1972, used the term liberally to describe African Americans who spent their lives fighting for equality.

Those freedom fighters included the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., who led the Civil Rights Movement; W.E.B. Du Bois, who in 1909 helped found the NAACP which is still the nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization; Paul Robeson, a famous singer, actor and political activist who in the 1930s became involved in national and international movements for better labor relations, peace and racial justice; and A. Philip Randolph, who founded and was the longtime head of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and a leading advocate for civil rights for African Americans.

McCain and Palin have simply reached back in history to use an old code word for black. It set whites apart from those deemed unAmerican and those who could not be trusted during the communism scare.

Shame on McCain and Palin.

Socialist is too mild I just call 'em want he is.

MARXIST!

Obamarx.

477 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:29:46pm

re: #467 n in wi

How about that "single payer" be the one receiving the service?
Open insurance up to competition so it is more affordable.


That might be part of the solution, yes.

478 jorline  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:29:52pm

So long, suckers. Millionaire hedge fund boss thanks 'idiot' traders and retires at 37

The boss of a successful US hedge fund has quit the industry with an extraordinary farewell letter dismissing his rivals as over-privileged "idiots" and thanking "stupid" traders for making him rich.

Andrew Lahde's $80m Los Angeles-based firm Lahde Capital Management in Los Angeles made a huge return last year by betting against subprime mortgages.

479 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:31:06pm

re: #477 Moe Katz

That might be part of the solution, yes.

Malpractice litigation reform would help to bring down health care costs but our Congress will never let that happen.

480 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:32:34pm

re: #478 jorline

Good for him.

481 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:32:51pm

re: #458 Moe Katz

Why, thank you :)

Hmmmm....a polite Commie. LOLOL.

482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:07pm

re: #479 livefreeor die

LAWYERIST!

483 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:08pm
484 HDrepub  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:12pm

re: #463 notutopia

It is such a jumbled convoluted mixed mess of a party! I think you have gleaned some truth there. Look at what even Hillary has her self wedged next to because of her outstanding political funds. She still is making her obligatory campaign rally with him and she was the one who used his Ayers against him in the primaries. Then Biden balked about his lack of experience, and then gets picked as his VP?. Keep your enemy close? They are one big bed of political snakes trying to figure out who is the poisonous coral and who is not. If we weren't on top of the media stories as they are posted, we perhaps too would have a hard time knowing the good snake from the bad in the democratic party. The only two who seem to be singing out extra loud his praises and premature win is Pelosi and Reid.

Hillary could have used Ayers a lot more if Bill hadn't pardoned two of Ayers cohorts who were serving time for their Weather Underground exploits. We have Bill to thank for Obama if he is elected in my opinion.

485 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:14pm

re: #479 livefreeor die

Malpractice litigation reform would help to bring down health care costs but our Congress will never let that happen.

Be it healh care,education or retirement, I can't see the price coming down,I see the opposite, if Dems simply get some one else to pay for ot.

486 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:28pm

re: #468 Killian Bundy

Pessimist troll!
/

487 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:35pm

re: #479 livefreeor die

Malpractice litigation reform would help to bring down health care costs but our Congress will never let that happen.

Good point. I don't think you're going to see one single system like you have in other developed countries, but rather a panoply of reforms.

488 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:33:43pm

re: #470 jaunte

What happened between Bill and Michelle Malkin? She used to be on that show pretty regularly.

489 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:34:01pm

re: #482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LAWYERIST!


I'm in PA so that's "clinging-to-religion-and-guns-racist-redneck" lawyerist, thank you very much!

490 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:34:02pm

I wonder how many followers are sporting Obama tattoos?

491 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:34:56pm

re: #490 logboy

I wonder how many followers are sporting Obama tattoos?

And they thought getting those Dukakis bumper stickers off their cars was tough...

492 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:35:05pm

re: #489 livefreeor die

I'm in PA so that's "clinging-to-religion-and-guns-racist-r edneck" lawyerist, thank you very much!

You forgot to add Redneck
/ see Murtha's comments today

493 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:35:20pm

re: #476 jcm

Socialist is too mild I just call 'em want he is.

MARXIST!

Obamarx.

Obamarx.

494 legalpad  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:35:28pm

re: #475 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

lol! - Oh, that explains it./

495 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:35:47pm

I'm also concerned about the increase in MSM articles about "the Death of Capitalism" and "What so bad about socialism?"

The country is changing rapidly. I can feel it.

496 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:35:53pm

re: #479 livefreeor die

Malpractice litigation reform would help to bring down health care costs but our Congress will never let that happen.

According to the Marxist WHO rankings, France has the worlds best healthcare and pay more per person than any country in the world. That is, any country in the world but the US. We cover less than half as many people, for more than twice as much.

There are so many issues with any kind of socialized healthcare in the US that the entire thing is doomed to failure. More importantly the state of US healthcare isn't even bad in comparison to the rest of the world, even compared to numero uno France.

497 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:36:34pm

302 arethusa- well code words for the M'Cain supporters:
don't let the Oby forces bamboozle you. don't let the pollsters hood-wink ya. Watch out for Oby's okey-doke...

498 SpartanWoman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:36:42pm

re: #463 notutopia

For McCain may not let them sweep fannie and freddie under the rug,Obama will have to

499 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:36:45pm

re: #451 HoosierHoops

Man that sounds like fun! (Indy 500), let me discuss with 'me friends who are interested in racing, do you mind if I bring a friend? Didn't realize how much we had accomplished with near zero funding but some very smart people working on the problem. We pulled a fast one on the cable franchise, but that's why they pay the lawyers big bucks for franchise contract agreements. It did not raise their legal flags and DeKalb citizens gained the finest MAN in the world. Now Comcast wants it back, and I hope the courts will see the issue in the citizens favor. I am really starting to like myself again.....

500 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:36:54pm

re: #490 logboy

I wonder how many followers are sporting Obama tattoos?

I have an Obama tatoo.
It's a big round O
it's on my butt
and you should see what comes out of it

501 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:37:02pm

re: #457 smokefire

re: #457 smokefire

ok, since I did not add this to the LGF cookbook

6 medium apples, peeled and cored
6 tblspns butter, chilled and cut in 6 pieces
1/2 cup flour
1/3 cup chopped walnuts
6 tblspns brown sugar
1/2 tspn ground cinnamon
1/2 tspn nutmeg
Bourbon over the top

pre heat oven to 350,
take dry ingredients, place in food processor, and process until mixture looks like coarse bread crumbs

spray 9/13 baking dish, arrange apple slices in over lapping rows.
sprinkle mixture over apples, and drizzle bourbon over top.
Bake for 20 minutes or until golden brown.

Enjoy

Any preference on the kind of bourbon? I may try this one tomorrow (or convince my wife to).

502 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:37:18pm

re: #468 Killian Bundy

WSJ: Obama Won't Ban Guns, 'I Don't Have the Votes in Congress'


/in 14 days, he could very well have the votes

He admitted that he would if he could.

503 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:37:42pm

re: #495 Killgore Trout

I'm also concerned about the increase in MSM articles about "the Death of Capitalism" and "What so bad about socialism?"

The country is changing rapidly. I can feel it.

Are you an Ent? Can you feel it in the water?

504 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:37:49pm

re: #479 livefreeor die

Malpractice litigation reform would help to bring down health care costs but our Congress will never let that happen.

Sure, why not screw the patient over twice? Once when they get butchered, then a second time when they can't get full compensation in Court.

505 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:38:12pm

re: #490 logboy

I wonder how many followers are sporting Obama tattoos?

/probably more than you'd care to imagine

506 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:38:24pm

re: #494 legalpad

By the way, that was from memory. It's probably wrong. Tho I did spell "sucka" correctly.

507 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:38:24pm

Remember a few years back that one black politician said that neckties were a code for whitey/massa, or some such twaddle?

508 rightymouse  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:38:28pm

re: #433 David Simon

Yes, of course. Give ME something, and make someone else pay for it. Unfortunately, she's not the only one who's buying the bullshit that Obama is peddling.

You might want to ask her how far she thinks the piddling shit Obama is promising her will go if her "rich" employer cuts back, and as a result, she doesn't have a job.

We talked about this today. I want to empower her so that she realizes her life choices can hold her back or move her toward a goal she says she prefers - that no bureaucrat or someone on the outside of her life can do that for her.

She understands that companies take the risks that she is not willing to do for herself. One of her older sons is making $7.00 an hour and she wondered how he could possibly be on his own. So I said that he was going to have to figure out a way to make more than that.

Like I said, she's intelligent, and I have faith that she'll come to the right decision on November 4.

509 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:38:43pm

re: #318 looking closely

DEBKA (state your source)is a biased site in that it is pro Israel(state your target), but unabashedly so. I have looked at that site on a regular basis over the years. In the area of foreign conflict, they seem to have analysis based on facts which are insightful. It has been fairly easy to weight accuracy by comparing facts with other sources. The sources are accurate in the underlying hard facts on specification and purpose. The site also offers a perspective in the Middle East which most publications never address, or propagandize.

All sites should be regarded with healthy skepticism, but do not discount information. That is bias as well.

DISCLAIMER: No affiliation either direct nor implied should be discerned by this opinion.

510 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:38:51pm

re: #503 Sharmuta

I can feel it in my toes, because that's where it goes.

511 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:09pm

re: #496 Scion9

According to the Marxist WHO rankings, France has the worlds best healthcare and pay more per person than any country in the world. That is, any country in the world but the US. We cover less than half as many people, for more than twice as much.

There are so many issues with any kind of socialized healthcare in the US that the entire thing is doomed to failure. More importantly the state of US healthcare isn't even bad in comparison to the rest of the world, even compared to numero uno France.

About those WHO rankings: Notice any criteria missing? Like the quality of the health care that's being provided?

/What good is fast, "free" health care if it sucks donkey dick?

512 jcm  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:13pm

re: #493 J.D.

Obamarx.

That's a good one.

513 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:22pm

re: #500 n in wi

What part of WI are you in?

514 Summersong  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:28pm

So, BO Grandma's name is "Toot"?

I. Did. Not. Know. That.

515 AmericanMe  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:29pm

re: #273 arethusa

Why does everyone pick on PA in this election? We're bitter, we're clingy, we like guns, we like God, we're racists, we're rednecks, and now we're crackers too.

Cheer up arethusa, your team has a shot at the World Series title. Philly destroyed my beloved Bums. It can't be all that bad. ;-)

516 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:40pm

Credit That Obama Calls A Tax Cut Will Be Of Zero Help To Economy

BY JACK KEMP AND PETER FERRARA

Barack Obama says he supports a tax cut for 95% of all Americans. He is referring here to his proposal for a $500 refundable income-tax credit for all workers, except those in the top 5% of income earners.

These folks, for some reason, are to be singled out for "special treatment" — i.e., tax increases — unless, as he recently told ABC anchor George Stephanopoulos, "the economy remains weak."

So apparently even Obama recognizes that his tax increases would be economically harmful.

Because Obama's tax credit does not reduce marginal tax rates, it will not benefit the economy. It provides no added incentives for work, savings, investment or business expansion.

Because it's refundable (meaning workers get it even if they have little or no income-tax liability), for many it will involve just another check from the government, rather than a reduction in tax liability. In those cases, it would not be a tax cut at all, but a transfer payment and a direct drain on tax revenues.

McCain proposes to double the personal exemption for each dependent from $3,500 to $7,000, for all families regardless of income. For middle-class workers in the 25% tax bracket, this $3,500 increase would reduce their tax liability by $875 for each child. While this tax cut also does not involve a reduction in marginal tax rates, it will promote working families with children.

But McCain also proposes marginal tax-rate reductions that do promote economic growth and encourage investment. Because America today suffers from the second-highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, McCain would help restore American competitiveness by reducing the federal corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%. This would benefit the middle class and workers by creating new jobs, at better wages, while strengthening the dollar.

It may even raise, rather than reduce, revenues. According to a 2007 study by the Treasury Department, Ireland — with a 12.5% corporate tax rate — raises almost 50% more revenue on a comparative basis than the United States does with a 35% rate. ...

517 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:39:40pm

re: #460 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

My BF can get me and the kids underground faster than fast....if needs be.

Can't say the same, I am established and enjoy what I do, I cannot go underground. I will fight this one from the trenches. Up front and personal!

518 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:40:02pm

re: #191 ploome hineni
Hi. I have grown Marilyn round globe Heirlooms now for
5 seasons off my original plants. I grow them year round. I start my winter seeds now for moving into the greenhouse which is heated at night in the winter by stored energy from solar panels. This variety has given me bumper crops of great tasting multipurpose tomatoes with med-high acidity. Great for salads, slicing, juicing, canning, jams, conserves and green as pickles, relish and fried.

519 HDrepub  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:40:09pm

re: #502 MandyManners

He admitted that he would if he could.

He will use other tactics, such as punitive taxes and lawsuits, to make it difficult for the average Joe to own guns.

520 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:40:35pm

re: #512 jcm

That's a good one.

I thought so...

521 Palmetto Patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:41:24pm

re: #236 StudSupreme

Woooooow. That's a 1438 word piece. Oooooooh. The headline has gracious plenty caps: "AP INVESTIGATION: Alaska funded Palin kids' travel." Aaaaaaah.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I guess what they don't realize is that having the "A" and the "P" in the headline discredits it completely. Obvious question is where are the screaming headlines about The One's Laundry List (TOLL)*?

* Henceforth, in the interest of time, the topics of Ayers, ACORN, Wright, et al, will simple be referred to as TOLL.

522 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:41:32pm

re: #516 J.D.

Credit That Obama Calls A Tax Cut Will Be Of Zero Help To Economy

BY JACK KEMP AND PETER FERRARA

And if you can't trust Jack Kemp for straight talk on taxes, who can you trust?

523 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:42:18pm

re: #519 HDrepub

He will use other tactics, such as punitive taxes and lawsuits, to make it difficult for the average Joe to own guns.

Let's hope the independent Joes and Janes know this.

BTW, love the new avatar.

524 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:42:20pm

re: #359 formercorpsman

Obama foreward to Ayer's book

It is in an earlier thread as well.

525 legalpad  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:43:06pm

re: #442 kansas

Ok - I think - you are saying "socialist" is a "code word". Wow. That's some pretty thin grasping at straws. You could present your ideology without trying to resort to thought control. That really makes it look like you don't think you have a case. Just respond to everything with "that's racist" every time someone refutes your position. So that's why we hear the racist accusation so much.

526 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:43:32pm

obama tattoos

/don't click the Images link unless you have a strong stomach

527 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:43:34pm
An early sign of the coming greatness of the Reagan presidency was that within an hour of the former actor's taking the oath of office, the Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamofascist regime in Iran released the 52 U.S. hostages it had been holding for 444 days.

Somehow, Ronald Reagan's lack of foreign policy experience didn't give Tehran the impression it would be a good idea to find out what he was made of; the mullahs already knew.

So why does Democratic vice-presidential nominee Sen. Joseph Biden think it's such a good idea to advertise that within months of taking office a President Obama would be faced with "a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy"?

What Biden is saying is that either Iran or al-Qaida or Russia or perhaps North Korea will launch some kind of attack on America or American interests abroad to feel out the new president.

And that this, presumably, would be practice for a more ambitious move against us later.

Speaking at a Seattle fundraising event Sunday night, the unfailingly foot-in-mouth-prone Biden said, "Mark my words," promising that "it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking."

As if promising a terrorist attack or an invasion of Taiwan or a suicide bombing of a U.S. base wasn't enough of a faux pas, Biden went on to implore his audience of donors that "he's going to need help," that Obama supporters will have "to stand with him, because it's not going to be apparent initially . . . that we're right."

Why is the supposedly seasoned foreign-policy wise man Biden in such a frenzied state?

Clearly, one purpose is to cast a Camelot-esque spell, comparing Obama to the much-beloved President Kennedy. ...

...President Kennedy's solution to the Cuban missile crisis ended up being a secret deal with Khrushchev to remove our medium-range nuclear missiles in Turkey, which would have been devastating to Kennedy politically had it become known.

What kind of things will Obama swap with our enemies?


Boasting Weakness

528 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:43:54pm

re: #499 loflyer

Dude.. I would be disappointed if you didn't bring a friend...
Last year we had about 80 people over 2 days.including fast friday..
/It's fun...If you like hanging out with a bunch of Marine Parents..

529 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:44:11pm

re: #498 SpartanWoman

O can't sweep them, the guilty associates he's tied to at F&F, will hold all the hush money he's received over his head. Mc Cain is the only one who will clean out that dirty house!

530 JeremyR  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:44:20pm

re: #453 livefreeor die

Oh, for Pete's sakes. How pathetic can it get? So I'm racist for calling Bill Ayers or Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank a socialist?

He was quoting an article, not stating his opinion.

531 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:44:24pm

re: #496 Scion9

According to the Marxist WHO rankings, France has the worlds best healthcare and pay more per person than any country in the world. That is, any country in the world but the US. We cover less than half as many people, for more than twice as much.

There are so many issues with any kind of socialized healthcare in the US that the entire thing is doomed to failure. More importantly the state of US healthcare isn't even bad in comparison to the rest of the world, even compared to numero uno France.


Absolute nonsense. The US spends considerably more on health care per capita and considerably more as a fraction of GDP than France.

532 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:44:28pm

re: #518 notutopia

Hi. I have grown Marilyn round globe Heirlooms now for
5 seasons off my original plants. I grow them year round. I start my winter seeds now for moving into the greenhouse which is heated at night in the winter by stored energy from solar panels. This variety has given me bumper crops of great tasting multipurpose tomatoes with med-high acidity. Great for salads, slicing, juicing, canning, jams, conserves and green as pickles, relish and fried.


What part of the country do you live in where you can do this? In our part of the country its a lot cheaper to just go buy tomatoes.

533 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:44:41pm

re: #522 Sharmuta

And if you can't trust Jack Kemp for straight talk on taxes, who can you trust?

Well...me?

534 livefreeor die  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:45:01pm

re: #530 JeremyR

He was quoting an article, not stating his opinion.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was responding to the authors of the article, not him.

535 legalpad  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:45:14pm

re: #506 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Memory! What do you spend your time listening to?

536 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:45:16pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

I can feel it in my toes, because that's where it goes.

In your fingers too?

537 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:45:35pm

Mates, I have to check out of here for a while. Got some interesting thoughts on some issues affecting my section at work and need to place them into action tonight before we meet our adversaries tomorrow! Think like a pirate, mates!

538 HDrepub  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:45:37pm

re: #523 MandyManners

Let's hope the independent Joes and Janes know this.

BTW, love the new avatar.

Thanks. The little long haired figure has been in my possession for many years now. My wife had a birthday cake made for me with it on it, and I've cherished it for years now. Actually I think it's a troll!

539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:45:48pm

re: #535 legalpad

Certainly not "Cats"!

540 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:46:08pm

re: #490 logboy

I wonder how many followers are sporting Obama tattoos?

Judging by the number of bumpers still sporting Gore/Lieberman, Kerry/ Edwards logos, I'm beginning to wonder if stickers aren't just as permanent.

541 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:46:18pm

re: #511 David Simon

About those WHO rankings: Notice any criteria missing? Like the quality of the health care that's being provided?

/What good is fast, "free" health care if it sucks donkey dick?

It's not what's missing precisely. WHO essentially admits that they are a partisan Socialist organization. One of the factors that weighs heavily in their rankings is the 'fairness' of the healthcare system employed.

The US has an inequality of benefits from healthcare created by our Capitalist system, that simply isn't present in the Caliphate of Oman, UAE or Saudi Arabia, all of whom are extremely 'fair', and rank higher than most of the developed world.

They of course also don't collect statistics on their own, and assume that the veracity of America's first in class, and harshely critical medical watchdogs that collect and provide statistics to WHO are roughly equivalent to those provided by State-run watchdogs in Cuba, or hell even the extremely accurate British "What the hell is Staph Infection?" NHS collected stats.

542 thedude  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:46:36pm

Logboy....thank you for your service and sacrifice for our country...

543 loflyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:46:42pm

re: #528 HoosierHoops

Dude.. I would be disappointed if you didn't bring a friend...
Last year we had about 80 people over 2 days.including fast friday..
/It's fun...If you like hanging out with a bunch of Marine Parents..

Cool mate, can you handle me and a good old boy redneck?

544 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:47:12pm

re: #515 AmericanMe

Cheer up arethusa, your team has a shot at the World Series title. Philly destroyed my beloved Bums. It can't be all that bad. ;-)

The definition of a Phillies fan is "a phool that allows their emotions to be ph---ed with constantly by their team."

I expect to be cursing them out at at least one point tomorrow night. :-)

545 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:47:13pm

re: #537 loflyer

Garr pal, Garr...

Need a pirate keyboard?

546 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:47:25pm

re: #511 David Simon

About those WHO rankings: Notice any criteria missing? Like the quality of the health care that's being provided?

/What good is fast, "free" health care if it sucks donkey dick?


Sorry, on measures such as life expectancy and child mortality rates the US looks bad too.

547 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:47:52pm
548 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:48:35pm

re: #388 Chris in Toronto

No problem my Canadian Brother. It was an interesting read.

549 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:48:44pm

re: #547 logboy

Linky no worky!

550 CIA Reject  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:48:51pm

re: #511 David Simon

About those WHO rankings: Notice any criteria missing? Like the quality of the health care that's being provided?

/What good is fast, "free" health care if it sucks donkey dick?

Good, Fast, Cheap

Pick any two...

551 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:48:55pm

My contribution to the LGF cook-book
Start with one inexperienced leftist radical
Educate with Marxist professors
Add to it a Messiah complex
Set aside for 1.5 years, preferably in the U.S. Senate
Next prepare a San Francisco Speaker of the house. Age won't matter as re-election is not a concern.
Prepare the above ingredients by blending in a dim-witted majority leader of the senate[Mormon is o.k. in this case as it will be a Democrat.]
Finally, add veto proof majorities in both the House and the Senate
and there you have it,
WE R SCREWED CAKE Best served with hard alcohol

552 legalpad  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:49:09pm

re: #539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think it would be easy to establish that you have also listened to Cats.

553 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:49:14pm

re: #546 Moe Katz

Sorry, on measures such as life expectancy and child mortality rates the US looks bad too.

Yeah, like Canada we rank below Saudi Arabia.

554 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:49:24pm

Heh...this is pretty good...read this:
Palin and CNN [Byron York]

Then this by Mark Steyn...
Re: Palin and CNN [Mark Steyn]

555 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:49:36pm

re: #542 thedude

Thanks dude... Please tell me you're a Big Lebowski fan.

556 Wm T Sherman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:49:44pm

Internet Explorer 6 is crashing when I open LGF. The error message mentions Flash Player 9.

557 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:50:32pm

re: #513 logboy

What part of WI are you in?

West cenrtal. Near Eau Claire. You?

558 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:50:37pm

re: #556 Wm T Sherman

Then upgrade.

559 FrogMarch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:50:42pm

re: #281 big L

So why would the USA vote to confine ouselves, all of us, with cheapo-service health plan, or labyrinthine tax raises, taking a trillion dollars from our families, for nothing? Obama and team are going to remove 1 trillion dollars from us. Why would a people voluntarily submit to this. That is exactly what this is: "Submission" from the Islamic rituals. Obama, from whatever study of Muslim tenets is cooking us up like a lobster. A little freedom removed here, somemore there, until we are in "Submission". Isn't there a translation of an islamic word that says 'I submit"?

Punishment, guilt and ignorance.
& and a nice looking slick socialist who can tell us lies... tell us sweet little lies.
Obama is going to tax us to death - but he's a moderate you see.

560 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:50:54pm

re: #556 Wm T Sherman

Use Firefox.

561 JeremyR  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:51:41pm

re: #540 David Simon

Judging by the number of bumpers still sporting Gore/Lieberman, Kerry/ Edwards logos, I'm beginning to wonder if stickers aren't just as permanent.

Nothing says loser like a Gore or Kerry sticker on the bumper.

562 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:52:01pm

re: #553 Scion9

Yeah, like Canada we rank below Saudi Arabia.

So? Saudi has a tiny population and vast oil wealth. Your American infant mortality rates are scandalous.

563 thedude  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:52:07pm

definitely......

564 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:52:22pm

re: #532 logboy

Piedmont, Growing Region 6. Cheaper yes? What about when they have bacterial organism scares like this last year?
Will you still buy them when they are 5.00 a pound?
I prefer the self sufficiency and the pride of walking up to a vine and pulling a piece of fruit off of it and eating it!

565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:52:32pm

re: #555 logboy

Thanks dude... Please tell me you're a Big Lebowski fan.

My son is still disappointed that I did not name him "The Dude".

He was born 13 years before the movie came out!

566 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:52:34pm
Re: Socialist is code for black [Mark Steyn]

Jonah, everything is the new black.

It's going to be a long eight years.

567 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:52:48pm

Currently the #2 story on Yahoo Buzz.

568 HoosierHoops  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:53:02pm

re: #543 loflyer

Cool mate, can you handle me and a good old boy redneck?

Hope you like racing..my dad has worked at the track since i was a kid..
Started out with ford mongoose racing when i was like 10 years old..
He has taken me to met Danica and stuff..But to tell the truth.. I consider the races as great fun for our friends..I'm not that serious about it..Although Hornish is a great person and I am really lucky to have met him and talked about stuff with him...cool cool guy..
well loflyer..It's free food and beer for two days...what's not to like?

569 alien_mind  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:53:37pm

re: #555 logboy

Thanks dude... Please tell me you're a Big Lebowski fan.

that rug really tied the room together.

570 tackle  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:53:37pm

I had a friend say she was so impressed with the Powell endorsement, and I'm having such a hard time understanding how so many can be so ignorant.

I don't want Obama to win, but there is a small part of me, like Geraldo secretly hoping that the hurricane's going to be a cat 5, that Obama gets in only to prove what a disaster this is going to be. Is this the only way? They way I see it, McCain is a bad tropical storm and Obama's a cat 5. The world's going down the crapper and the question is, who's going to accelerate it faster? Maybe it's the passive-aggressive in me that wants to show all those who are voting for Obama how gravely ignorant they are. At worst, we'll have a disasterous 4 years with the pendulum swinging back hard in 2012.

571 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:53:45pm

re: #551 n in wi

Add more alcohol to that recipe please...

572 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:54:08pm

re: #567 Sharmuta

Currently the #2 story on Yahoo Buzz.

Wow! That's fairly comprehensive!

573 AmericanMe  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:54:14pm

re: #544 arethusa

The definition of a Phillies fan is "a phool that allows their emotions to be ph---ed with constantly by their team."

I expect to be cursing them out at at least one point tomorrow night. :-)

LOL I know the feeling well. The Rays are pretty good and fun to watch, but I'm gonna be pulling for your Phils. Let's bring the Championship to the NL. Hopefully you'll be praising more than cursing. :-)

574 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:54:24pm

re: #565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My son is still disappointed that I did not name him "The Dude".

He was born 13 years before the movie came out!

Absolutly the best movie ever made.

575 FrogMarch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:54:28pm

re: #516 J.D.

Credit That Obama Calls A Tax Cut Will Be Of Zero Help To Economy

BY JACK KEMP AND PETER FERRARA

But McCain also proposes marginal tax-rate reductions that do promote economic growth and encourage investment. Because America today suffers from the second-highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, McCain would help restore American competitiveness by reducing the federal corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%. This would benefit the middle class and workers by creating new jobs, at better wages, while strengthening the dollar.

How can Obama be ahead?
He's going to kill us with his Chicago-thug-Ayres inspired tax ponzi scheme.

576 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:54:29pm

re: #569 alien_mind

that rug really tied the room together.

The Dude abides.

577 CIA Reject  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:54:33pm

re: #564 notutopia

...I prefer the self sufficiency and the pride of walking up to a vine and pulling a piece of fruit off of it and eating it!

So do I, but whenever I do that the farmer comes yelling and screaming and sics the dogs on me. :-)

578 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:55:23pm

Try this onere: #549 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


Weird. Try this. The site it was on must not allow direct links to images.

579 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:55:53pm

Obama to media: pony up for election night access

The best-funded political campaign in American history says news organizations will have to pay — in some cases almost $2,000 each — if they want to cover Barack Obama’s election-night celebration in Chicago.

A memo sent to news organizations on Tuesday by the Obama campaign says credentials will cost $715 to $1,815, depending on whether electrical and phone lines are needed and whether an indoor or outdoor seat is requested for the event, which is expected to be held outside the evening of Nov. 4 in Grant Park.

/do they get a refund if he loses?

580 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:55:54pm

re: #575 FrogMarch

How can Obama be ahead?
He's going to kill us with his Chicago-thug-Ayres inspired tax ponzi scheme.

But it will have been worth it if it can get him elected!
Where are your priorities?
/

581 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:56:14pm

re: #576 Who Watches the Watchmen?

The Dude abides.

If Obama wins, I say "Fuck it lets go bowling."

582 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:56:40pm

re: #546 Moe Katz

Sorry, on measures such as life expectancy and child mortality rates the US looks bad too.

Are life expectancy and child mortality influenced by anything OTHER than the way health care is financed?

Hmmmm...

583 FrogMarch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:56:58pm

re: #495 Killgore Trout

I'm also concerned about the increase in MSM articles about "the Death of Capitalism" and "What so bad about socialism?"

The country is changing rapidly. I can feel it.

Andrea Mitchell and Keith Olberman want their socialism - and they want it now.

584 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:56:59pm

re: #579 Killian Bundy

Obama to media: pony up for election night access

/do they get a refund if he loses?

Who doesn't?
Oh...me...never mind...

585 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:57:10pm

re: #577 CIA Reject

Remember the morale of the old children's story of the Little Red Hen...?
It's my favorite!

586 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:01pm

re: #556 Wm T Sherman

I started disabling all Adobe plugins unless I want to watch something on youtube. Go to tools>manage add-ons>enable or disable add-ons. If I don't do that IE will crash a dozen times a day.

587 mama winger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:14pm

For those who wish - remember at the top of this hour, some of us are praying for God's intervention into this election

in about 3 minutes if you would like to join us in a silent cyber prayer............

588 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:14pm

re: #583 FrogMarch

Andrea Mitchell and Keith Olberman want their socialism - and they want it now.

Great- next time I run into Andrea at Starbucks, she can buy my coffee.

589 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:19pm

Have you all seen this one? A religious hymn is now a hymn to Obama.

590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:22pm

re: #578 logboy

Try this one


Weird. Try this. The site it was on must not allow direct links to images.

HA!

591 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:26pm

re: #579 Killian Bundy

Obama to media: pony up for election night access


/do they get a refund if he loses?

Maybe those will be prime spots to coverage the riots.

592 sandspur  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:31pm

re: #488 Kreuzueber Halbmond

What happened between Bill and Michelle Malkin? She used to be on that show pretty regularly.

[Link: nymag.com...]

During the Comprehensive Immigraton Bill debate, Whorealdo and Michelle locked horns. Rivera said if he saw Michelle in person, he'd spit on her. He made a non-apology apology on a later O'Reilly, but as far as I know he never apologized to Michelle directly. She thought the episode was poorly handled by Fox/O'Reilly and decided not to appear on O'Reilly in the future.

593 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:43pm

re: #587 mama winger

OK, I was leaving but I wouldn't miss it for the world!

594 Tigger2005  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:43pm

re: #554 J.D.

Heh...this is pretty good...read this:
Palin and CNN [Byron York]

Cherry-picking quotes. Exactly the way creationists cherry-pick quotes from evolutionary scientists to make it sound like they doubt evolution. It's amazing how dishonorable scum-sucking douchebags of all persuasions use exactly the same deceptive and dishonest tactics to promote their causes.

595 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:58:55pm

re: #581 n in wi

If Obama wins, I say "Fuck it lets go bowling."

Message to an Obama administration: "There is a line across which you do not."

596 TheMatrix31  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:01pm

re: #587 mama winger

For those who wish - remember at the top of this hour, some of us are praying for God's intervention into this election

in about 3 minutes if you would like to join us in a silent cyber prayer............

I pray for it every night.

597 Spider Mensch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:09pm

re: #570 tackle

I had a friend say she was so impressed with the Powell endorsement, and I'm having such a hard time understanding how so many can be so ignorant.

I don't want Obama to win, but there is a small part of me, like Geraldo secretly hoping that the hurricane's going to be a cat 5, that Obama gets in only to prove what a disaster this is going to be. Is this the only way? They way I see it, McCain is a bad tropical storm and Obama's a cat 5. The world's going down the crapper and the question is, who's going to accelerate it faster? Maybe it's the passive-aggressive in me that wants to show all those who are voting for Obama how gravely ignorant they are. At worst, we'll have a disasterous 4 years with the pendulum swinging back hard in 2012.

your "at worst" is vague to me...you kow what I forsee if this shit slinger is elected...the NY/NJ metro area and Tel Aviv gone..the shit slingers response.."err ummm..lets get the united nations security council to address this..err uh uh uh" /yeh he's that dangerous!

598 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:13pm

re: #579 Killian Bundy

Obama to media: pony up for election night access

/do they get a refund if he loses?

/If he loses, they get prime coverage of the rioting.

599 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:16pm

re: #587 mama winger

I'm tuning in!

600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:18pm

For my Jewish Lizard friends...great quote from "The Big Lebowski"

"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax... "

601 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:29pm

re: #591 MandyManners

Maybe those will be prime spots to coverage the riots.

Great minds!

602 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 5:59:58pm

Coverage is not a verb, nitwit!

603 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:00:20pm

re: #595 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Message to an Obama administration: "There is a line across which you do not."

He is the ultimate Nihalist

604 FrogMarch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:00:23pm

re: #316 Killian Bundy

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black

/seriously, where the hell do they come up with this insanity

Karl Marx was not black.

605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:00:27pm

re: #602 MandyManners

What?

606 Ojoe  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:00:46pm
607 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:00:51pm

re: #601 arethusa

Great minds!

Indeed! I hope they have hankies to cover their mouths and noses.

608 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:06pm

559-frog march. but it makes no sense. He can tell us that he is reducing taxes. But if you add up the amount of programs, it is 1 1/4 trillion dollars. You can do the math yourself, with eighth-grade math, or even lower grades!
Where do they think this money is coming from? Even if all the millionaires turned over ALL the money they make it wouldn't make a dent in the bill.
this is like bizarro superman, where up is down etc.
We have the stupids.

609 RedWhiteAndJew  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:09pm

Maybe it's just my imagination, but the damnedest thing has been happening the past week.

I am not one to put bumper stickers on my car, but I've just felt the need to put up some pro-McCain/Palin material, if only to give heart to some discouraged right-minded voters around me. I've also made it a point to drive through a few nests of idiotarianism, because I'm just that kind of guy.

Well, most drivers behind me now are hanging way way back from my car. I've noticed this particularly when one two-lane roads, but I've even had cars trailing me from a few dozen car lengths on the highway, even with an empty passing lane, and even when I start to slow to 5 below the limit, or more.

Anyone have a theory?

610 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:13pm

re: #605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No. 591.

611 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:13pm

re: #554 J.D.

Heh...this is pretty good...read this:
Palin and CNN [Byron York]

Then this by Mark Steyn...
Re: Palin and CNN [Mark Steyn]

The pointed article by Steyn is my preferred reading.

612 Zombie_Killian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:26pm

Keith Olberman is still an infected, pustulous sore on the anus of the Lame-stream media.

613 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:33pm

re: #606 Ojoe

Very nice! I'll see it for real the day after tomorrow.

614 wolfie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:01:58pm

re: #551 n in wi

Yum!


gag

615 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:02:11pm

re: #557 n in wi

West cenrtal. Near Eau Claire. You?


We're neighbors! My wife and I live just south of Menomonie. We're both students at Stout.

616 FrogMarch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:02:17pm

re: #554 J.D.

Heh...this is pretty good...read this:
Palin and CNN [Byron York]

Then this by Mark Steyn...
Re: Palin and CNN [Mark Steyn]

Unprofessional hacks.

617 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:02:55pm

re: #615 logboy

We're neighbors! My wife and I live just south of Menomonie. We're both students at Stout.

Downsville?

618 CIA Reject  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:02:56pm

re: #585 notutopia

Remember the morale of the old children's story of the Little Red Hen...?
It's my favorite!

YUP!

Somebody should tell that story to BO, guess they didn't have it when he was a kid in Indonesia Hawaii.

619 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:02pm

re: #612 Zombie_Killian

Keith Olberman is still an infected, pustulous sore on the anus of the Lame-stream media.

I take it you won't be naming a child after him.

620 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:17pm

re: #562 Moe Katz

So? Saudi has a tiny population and vast oil wealth. Your American infant mortality rates are scandalous.

You obviously didn't get the jab. Our infant mortality rates, nor Canada's are as high as Saudi Arabia's.

First, why don't you establish what qualifies as an infant mortality? I'll give you a clue. In the US, it is when any infant dies even those born prematuraly, and often includes perinatal deaths as well. In France, an infant dying does not qualify as an infant mortality. There is a distinction in reporting a death relating to a child's weight, and time of birth in relation to the mother's due date. France reports and estimated 2/3rds of its infant deaths as being perinatal deaths, or late term miscarriages.

Do you really think that Cuba has a less than 1% infant mortality rate?

621 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:22pm

re: #619 MandyManners

I take it you won't be naming a child after him.

LOL

622 Shay4l  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:29pm

re: #609 RedWhiteAndJew

Maybe it's just my imagination, but the damnedest thing has been happening the past week.

I am not one to put bumper stickers on my car, but I've just felt the need to put up some pro-McCain/Palin material, if only to give heart to some discouraged right-minded voters around me. I've also made it a point to drive through a few nests of idiotarianism, because I'm just that kind of guy.

Well, most drivers behind me now are hanging way way back from my car. I've noticed this particularly when one two-lane roads, but I've even had cars trailing me from a few dozen car lengths on the highway, even with an empty passing lane, and even when I start to slow to 5 below the limit, or more.

Anyone have a theory?

Does this material mention large caliber weaponry?

623 Tigger2005  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:36pm

re: #597 Spider Mensch

your "at worst" is vague to me...you kow what I forsee if this shit slinger is elected...the NY/NJ metro area and Tel Aviv gone..the shit slingers response.."err ummm..lets get the united nations security council to address this..err uh uh uh" /yeh he's that dangerous!

Don't forget, "Let's not let this, er, ah, um, um, tragedy get in the way of our plans to raise, err, um, ah, CUT taxes for 110% of Americans and, um, um, er, ensure universal health care for all, especially, ah, umm, er, ah, those suffering from, uh, ah, radiation sickness."

624 LoFlyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:38pm

re: #545 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Garr pal, Garr...

Need a pirate keyboard?

Thanks, mate! Bookmarked!

625 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:55pm

re: #617 n in wi

re: #617 n in wi

Downsville?

2 miles East of Downsville.

626 RedWhiteAndJew  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:03:56pm
Keith Olberman is still an infected, pustulous sore on the anus of the Lame-stream media.

I take it you won't be naming a child after him.

Never much cared for the name "Canker."

627 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:04:08pm

re: #609 RedWhiteAndJew

Do you also have a "Marines" emblem on it? That seems to get their attention.

628 CIA Reject  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:04:10pm

re: #598 arethusa

/If he loses, they get prime coverage of the rioting.

If he wins (G*d forbid) they get the same thing!

629 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:04:31pm
630 alien_mind  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:04:38pm

re: #581 n in wi

If Obama wins, I say "Fuck it lets go bowling."


i'm pretty sure the Dude would support Obama in order to get in on the redistribution of wealth.

631 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:04:48pm
632 FrogMarch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:04:57pm

re: #588 Sharmuta

Great- next time I run into Andrea at Starbucks, she can buy my coffee.

It certainly would be nice if we could verify that these liberal leftist "journalists" were getting tax hikes that hurt their families. Elite liberals must have fancy tax shelters.

633 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:04pm
634 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:16pm

re: #631 taxfreekiller

I need it now!

What about delaying gratification? Huh?

635 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:18pm

re: #624 LoFlyer

Glad I caught you before you left. Can't believe I didn't think of it before.

636 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:23pm
637 RedWhiteAndJew  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:24pm
Does this material mention large caliber weaponry?

(blushes)

well...

638 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:41pm

Hey Dude, how many White Russians do you think it would take to get through four years of Obama?

639 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:44pm
640 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:05:57pm

re: #592 sandspur

During the Comprehensive Immigraton Bill debate, Whorealdo and Michelle locked horns. Rivera said if he saw Michelle in person, he'd spit on her. He made a non-apology apology on a later O'Reilly, but as far as I know he never apologized to Michelle directly. She thought the episode was poorly handled by Fox/O'Reilly and decided not to appear on O'Reilly in the future.

Good for her. Michelle has accomplished more on her own than those two asshats combined. Fox might need her, but she sure as hell doesn't need Fox. Thanks for the link.

641 Spider Mensch  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:06:06pm

re: #609 RedWhiteAndJew

Maybe it's just my imagination, but the damnedest thing has been happening the past week.

I am not one to put bumper stickers on my car, but I've just felt the need to put up some pro-McCain/Palin material, if only to give heart to some discouraged right-minded voters around me. I've also made it a point to drive through a few nests of idiotarianism, because I'm just that kind of guy.

Well, most drivers behind me now are hanging way way back from my car. I've noticed this particularly when one two-lane roads, but I've even had cars trailing me from a few dozen car lengths on the highway, even with an empty passing lane, and even when I start to slow to 5 below the limit, or more.

Anyone have a theory?


your left turn signal has been blinking constantly for the last week. the interior left directional is burned out on the dash, and you have the radio on and don't hear the clicking..everyone behind you has been waiting a week for you to make a left turn...

/its a theory

642 big L  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:06:19pm

597-spider...the leftys won't pay any attention to the disaster they created . Tehy will blink and move on to next issue-global warming, turd-protection laws.
Like Prager says, being left means never having to say you're sorry.

643 JSK1121  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:06:28pm

re: #638 logboy

Hey Dude, how many White Russians do you think it would take to get through four years of Obama?

More than Stalin killed, I know that.

644 gop_patriot  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:06:35pm

re: #589 arethusa

Have you all seen this one? A religious hymn is now a hymn to Obama.

Oh my. I got 23 seconds in and literally got nauseous.

645 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:06:38pm

Steady, tfk. Steady.

646 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:06:55pm

re: #643 JSK1121

More than Stalin killed, I know that.

Oh geez...

647 MandyManners  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:02pm

re: #643 JSK1121

More than Stalin killed, I know that.

LOL!

648 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:09pm

re: #627 J.D.


I love my bumper sticker. "My other car got blown up by an IED."

649 kansas  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:12pm

re: #448 MandyManners

Fucking ignorant numb-nuts.


He's one of two opinion page blacks who write total shit in this paper. I had some email trades with Dickweed just after 9/11. He was whining about us going to war. The guy is weiner. Affirmative action at its very worst.

And the polls were accurate in 2004, but then the press was not so enamored of Kerry. They are on their knees to the ONE.

650 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:25pm

re: #625 logboy

re: #617 n in wi


2 miles East of Downsville.

Near the Dunville hunting grounds?

651 Badge of Kaffir Pride  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:34pm

re: #638 logboy

Hey Dude, how many White Russians do you think it would take to get through four years of Obama?

Putin's probably enough. Maybe Medvedev, too.

/Alexander Ovechkin can get through 4 defenders, normally.

652 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:47pm

re: #648 logboy

I love my bumper sticker. "My other car got blown up by an IED."

Oooooo...

653 jcm  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:07:57pm

Obama will redistribute the wealth.

Criticism of this will be muted with the return of the fairness doctrine. Also look what The One's minions did to Joe the Plumber for asking a reasonable but tough question.

Buh-bye first amendment.

Obama said he doesn't have the congressional votes for a gun grab, implying if he did he would. Worst case this election (D)s get a super majority in both house and all bets are off.

Buh-bye second amendment.

The old liberal farts on SCOTUS hanging on by their finger tips resign on Jan. 21. Obama appoints attorneys like Lynne Stewart. The challenges to Obama's actions get voted down on 6-3 votes.

Buh-bye bill of rights.

Buh-bye Constitution.


That my synopsis of this election.

654 TheMatrix31  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:16pm

re: #638 logboy

Hey Dude, how many White Russians do you think it would take to get through four years of Obama?

Why are they WHITE Russians?!?!?!?

655 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:23pm

re: #628 CIA Reject

If he wins (G*d forbid) they get the same thing!

Yeah, I've been wondering that...isn't there a danger of celebratory rioting, too? Like after major sports victories.

656 Irene NYC  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:33pm

re: #546 Moe Katz

Sorry, on measures such as life expectancy and child mortality rates the US looks bad too.


A lot of that was debunked when the report came out. Child mortality, if memory serves, was off because the US attempted to save so many preemies at an earlier and earlier age and who would've been "aborted" earlier but were now counted in our dead, but not included in the statistics of other countries because they didn't even try to save such pregnancies.

657 gmsc  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:35pm

re: #257 Sharmuta

Holy Hell! Philadelphia Daily News columnist calls Pennsylvanians "crackers"!

Sometimes people from Philly just can't catch a break. (Watch from 50 seconds in until about 1:04)

658 kansas  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:39pm

re: #583 FrogMarch

Andrea Mitchell and Keith Olberman want their socialism - and they want it now.

Wait. Socialism is a code word for racist. Isn't it?//According to Lewis Diuguid pronouced Dickweed, of the Kansas City Star.

659 J.D.  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:41pm

re: #654 TheMatrix31

Why are they WHITE Russians?!?!?!?

Of course he's racist...clearly...

660 Nuclear Ninja  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:47pm

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black


The "socialist" label that Sen. John McCain and his GOP presidential running mate Sarah Palin are trying to attach to Sen. Barack Obama actually has long and very ugly historical roots.

I thought this was a parody. Apparently the author is serious.

661 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:08:50pm

re: #546 Moe Katz

Sorry, on measures such as life expectancy and child mortality rates the US looks bad too.

Bad? We're way better than most other countries. Considering we have a population of over 300 million, that's pretty damn good.

662 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:09:19pm
663 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:09:36pm

re: #650 n in wi

Near the Dunville hunting grounds?


Possibly, I don't know where that is yet (and I need to to get my new dog out). I'm 2 miles east of Downsville right on C. We bought the remnants of an old dairy farm.

664 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:09:48pm

re: #630 alien_mind

i'm pretty sure the Dude would support Obama in order to get in on the redistribution of wealth.

re: #638 logboy

Hey Dude, how many White Russians do you think it would take to get through four years of Obama?

Fraid so
But ,The other Lebowski said "The revolution is over, your side lost, get a job."

665 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:09:58pm

re: #495 Killgore Trout

Killgore, why do you think that is?

666 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:08pm
667 Arby Dwiar  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:10pm

re: #609 RedWhiteAndJew

Quite obviously you're not driving in MN - the land of infamous tailgaters (bumper stickers be damned) and most regressive politics.

668 LoFlyer  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:13pm

re: #568 HoosierHoops

Hope you like racing..my dad has worked at the track since i was a kid..
Started out with ford mongoose racing when i was like 10 years old..
He has taken me to met Danica and stuff..But to tell the truth.. I consider the races as great fun for our friends..I'm not that serious about it..Although Hornish is a great person and I am really lucky to have met him and talked about stuff with him...cool cool guy..
well loflyer..It's free food and beer for two days...what's not to like?

Very cool, Hoosier. My experience has mainly been camping at Road Atlanta for the SCCA races until new owners bought Road Atlanta and raised prices outrageously. Road Atlanta is very interesting in that camping is allowed in a wooded infield, and you get a great race and nature at the same time! My friend Sam is a diehard NASCAR fan and has a multi-millionaire Girl-friend in Chicago. I feel glad for Sam, he has not had a good marriage and I am glad to see him happy!

669 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:22pm

re: #653 jcm

Like I said, if (when) something bad happens to B/J they are going to do things that make the things in the "Patriot Act" that bothered folks look like the "Bill of Rights".

670 Sharmuta  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:24pm

Hey- the top ten comments mow have avatars. Cool.

671 sandspur  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:30pm

re: #570 tackle

I had a friend say she was so impressed with the Powell endorsement, and I'm having such a hard time understanding how so many can be so ignorant.

I don't want Obama to win, but there is a small part of me, like Geraldo secretly hoping that the hurricane's going to be a cat 5, that Obama gets in only to prove what a disaster this is going to be. Is this the only way? They way I see it, McCain is a bad tropical storm and Obama's a cat 5. The world's going down the crapper and the question is, who's going to accelerate it faster? Maybe it's the passive-aggressive in me that wants to show all those who are voting for Obama how gravely ignorant they are. At worst, we'll have a disasterous 4 years with the pendulum swinging back hard in 2012.

Two words: Supreme Court Justices
/

672 CIA Reject  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:10:45pm

re: #655 arethusa

Yeah, I've been wondering that...isn't there a danger of celebratory rioting, too? Like after major sports victories.

I think there is a better than even chance.

673 jetprop  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:30pm

Joe Biden said today BHO will face a 'generated crisis'.

Generated by whom?

/Inquiring minds

674 kansas  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:39pm

Went by an early polling place today. Real crowded. I guess finding out at the last minute that Obama is a spy won't make a difference.//

675 jtm371  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:45pm

just wondering if bho wants to spread the wealth why hasn't it started it at home.my wife and i have donated more then the messiah&female dog and we make under 100 grand.that is why the moonbats are hypocrites want to tell you how to live your life and then get on there private jet and fly home.hey messiah kiss my a$$.BOOMER SOONER

676 David Simon  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:45pm

re: #562 Moe Katz

So? Saudi has a tiny population and vast oil wealth. Your American infant mortality rates are scandalous.

Scandalous? What would you propose that we do, become like Sweden?

677 notutopia  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:46pm

re: #618 CIA Reject

He'd probably think it was racist, since the ducks were black, at least in my copy. He'd just rewrite the book to include mandatory "wealth redistribution'"!

678 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:50pm

re: #663 logboy

Possibly, I don't know where that is yet (and I need to to get my new dog out). I'm 2 miles east of Downsville right on C. We bought the remnants of an old dairy farm.


Your close. What kind of dog do you have?

679 sandspur  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:53pm

re: #666 taxfreekiller

I WANT MY ZOMBIE FIX,,,NOW

me, too, can't wait

680 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:11:54pm

re: #667 Arby Dwiar

Quite obviously you're not driving in MN - the land of infamous tailgaters (bumper stickers be damned) and most regressive politics.

5 years of living in the cities taught me not to worry about the man driving three feet off my rear bumper. He's just politely suggesting you drive faster.

681 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:12:05pm

re: #620 Scion9

I believe the US statistics are based on live births. According to the sources I read the difference between the US and other countries that accounts for its higher infant mortality is the higher number of low birth weight infants in the US. If you look at live births, normal birth weight the differences disappear. It seems the US does not do a good job with prenatal care for the poor.

682 kansas  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:12:20pm

re: #660 Nuclear Ninja

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black

I thought this was a parody. Apparently the author is serious.

This author actually has been paid for a number of years to write this shit.

683 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:12:24pm
684 solomonpanting  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:12:46pm

re: #653 jcm

Obama will redistribute the wealth.

Criticism of this will be muted with the return of the fairness doctrine. Also look what The One's minions did to Joe the Plumber for asking a reasonable but tough question.

Buh-bye first amendment.

Obama said he doesn't have the congressional votes for a gun grab, implying if he did he would. Worst case this election (D)s get a super majority in both house and all bets are off.

Buh-bye second amendment.

The old liberal farts on SCOTUS hanging on by their finger tips resign on Jan. 21. Obama appoints attorneys like Lynne Stewart. The challenges to Obama's actions get voted down on 6-3 votes.

Buh-bye bill of rights.

Buh-bye Constitution.


That my synopsis of this election.


Just a bit pessimistic there, fellow. He first needs to be elected, which at this point is too close to call. Maybe Obama is like Halley's Comet: burns bright for a moment and then disappears for seventy-five years.

685 Arby Dwiar  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:12:52pm

re: #653 jcm

Succinct. Foretelling. Truthful.

Depressing.


(Thanks a lot for nothing...)
/sarc

686 itellu3times  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:12:53pm

re: #656 Irene NYC

A lot of that was debunked when the report came out. Child mortality, if memory serves, was off because the US attempted to save so many preemies at an earlier and earlier age and who would've been "aborted" earlier but were now counted in our dead, but not included in the statistics of other countries because they didn't even try to save such pregnancies.

Also that we have 12m illegal aliens, and our own underclass of at least another 10m, that foul up the figures. Count only taxpayers, and our stats are as good as anyones.

687 Tigger2005  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:13:10pm

So now Congressional D's have accused both McCain and Palin of resorting to "racism and fear" because they "know they can't win on the issues." In my book, "D" now stands for "Dishonorable, scum-sucking douchebags." Make a note that whenever I put a "D" after someone's name, this is what I mean.

No, "D's," it's you who must inject race into the campaign because you know the things McCain and Palin are attacking Obama on are indeed issues and WILL torpedo Obama's campaign if they get too much play, so you are desperate to shut down said attacks by playing the race card.

Filthy, nasty little wormy f*cks. I hate every last one of them with an cold, burning, eternal rage.

Maybe I'll share my TRUE feelings later.

688 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:13:29pm
689 wolfie  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:13:54pm

re: #620 Scion9

Similarly, Scandinavian countries do not include suicides in figuring out their life expectancies. We do.

690 alien_mind  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:13:55pm

what's with Pennsylvanians anyway? first Obama says they're bitter clingers, then Murtha says they're racist, wait no they're red-necks!

691 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:14:11pm
692 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:14:29pm

re: #656 Irene NYC

A lot of that was debunked when the report came out. Child mortality, if memory serves, was off because the US attempted to save so many preemies at an earlier and earlier age and who would've been "aborted" earlier but were now counted in our dead, but not included in the statistics of other countries because they didn't even try to save such pregnancies.

It's really worse than that. A lot of the 'developed world' has criteria for categorizing something as an infant death, other than an infant being alive. Essantially a newborn has to be within certain criteria, such as birthweight to be likely to survive. If that child dies, it is an infant mortality. If a child is slightly underweight, or has other mitigating circumstances like a birth defect that would make it not likely to survive, it was never even born, or qualifies as a miscarriage.

A child that wasn't "supposed" to be born, doesn't qualify as being alive until it is a toddler.

693 Wm T Sherman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:14:35pm

re: #558 Sharmuta

Not an option. It's not my home computer I'm talking about. Until the IT Department proclaims that it's time to change, it's IE6.

694 Tigger2005  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:14:35pm

re: #660 Nuclear Ninja

Shame on McCain and Palin for using an old code word for black


I thought this was a parody. Apparently the author is serious.

I wonder what the author thinks of the term "douchebag."

695 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:14:36pm

re: #609 RedWhiteAndJew

It could be you are a racist, gun carrying, Obamaphobe,
or,
you are a perceive target for an Obamatron wealth distributing death ray.

696 Killian Bundy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:14:58pm

re: #653 jcm

That my synopsis of this election.

That's an accurate description except for his foreign policy.

/buh-bye Afghanistan, Iraq, and Israel, that should placate the Islamofreaks and they'll respect us and leave us alone, right?

697 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:15:00pm

re: #683 taxfreekiller

Obama wants my house, my truck, my old cows, my grandads farm,the poor trust babies will starve,, Obama wants taxes, he wants,Obama WANTSso, where the hell is my ZOMBIE FIX for it alll?

Sounds like a country/western song

698 mama winger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:15:26pm

re: #589 arethusa

Have you all seen this one? A religious hymn is now a hymn to Obama.

I am sick. Sick.

699 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:15:49pm

re: #656 Irene NYC

A lot of that was debunked when the report came out. Child mortality, if memory serves, was off because the US attempted to save so many preemies at an earlier and earlier age and who would've been "aborted" earlier but were now counted in our dead, but not included in the statistics of other countries because they didn't even try to save such pregnancies.

Also, we get lots of 'anchor babies', especially from Mexico, that are more likely to get into trouble. And from CANADA (yes, really), because the health care system up there is so bad that if you are told your pregnancy is 'difficult' you have tremendous incentive to come south where the treatment is better. And those kind of pregnancies are much more likely to end badly, even here.

And then there's the effect of the higher birth rate, and older mothers.
Etc, etc, etc...

700 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:15:50pm
701 formercorpsman  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:15:53pm

re: #589 arethusa

sick.

702 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:16:48pm

re: #678 n in wi

Your close. What kind of dog do you have?


Springer Spaniel pup, about 6 months old. He's slowly starting to catch on, but I need to try and get him on some birds.

703 jcm  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:16:54pm

re: #684 solomonpanting

Just a bit pessimistic there, fellow. He first needs to be elected, which at this point is too close to call. Maybe Obama is like Halley's Comet: burns bright for a moment and then disappears for seventy-five years.

Just trying to paint the "black"ground for what happens if we don't beat his red ass.

704 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:16:56pm
705 Nuclear Ninja  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:17:21pm

re: #682 kansas

This author actually has been paid for a number of years to write this shit.

That is just incredible. How dim do you have to be to actually submit something like that...WITH your name attached? By this guy's logic, Secretary of State is the new code word for black since the current of previous Secretaries of State are black.

706 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:17:32pm

re: #686 itellu3times

Also that we have 12m illegal aliens, and our own underclass of at least another 10m, that foul up the figures. Count only taxpayers, and our stats are as good as anyones.


So the children of the 'underclass', never mind illegal aliens, don't count somehow?

707 logboy  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:18:14pm

Jumping to new thread.

708 RedWhiteAndJew  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:18:23pm
It could be you are a racist, gun carrying, Obamaphobe...

Well, two out of three ain't bad.

709 n in wi  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:18:46pm

re: #702 logboy

Springer Spaniel pup, about 6 months old. He's slowly starting to catch on, but I need to try and get him on some birds.

Pheasants are released in the Dunville hunting area, about 5 miles from you,on hwy J

710 Nuclear Ninja  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:19:16pm

re: #694 Tigger2005

I wonder what the author thinks of the term "douchebag."

Careful, that is the new code word for Lewis Diuguid, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist.

Is the Kansas City Star a real newspaper? Is it April 1st, by chance?

711 pepper  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:19:20pm

re: #672 CIA Reject

It is definitely an intended consequence. I would be very afraid regardless of the outcome. The storming of the Bastille is the image.

712 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:19:50pm

re: #706 Moe Katz

So the children of the 'underclass', never mind illegal aliens, don't count somehow?

The point is that their higher mortality rates are NOT the result of worse health care.

713 Zombie_Killian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:20:57pm

re: #619 MandyManners

I take it you won't be naming a child after him.

I'll name something after him; something that requires me jiggling the handle a couple of times.

714 Irene NYC  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:21:58pm

re: #666 taxfreekiller

I WANT MY ZOMBIE FIX,,,NOW


ME TOO!

And as a card carrying member of the Silenced Majority, if I don't get it - WATCH OUT.
;)

715 jamgarr  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:22:02pm

re: #683 taxfreekiller

Obama wants my house, my truck, my old cows, my grandads farm,
the poor trust babies will starve,, Obama wants taxes, he wants,

Obama WANTS

so, where the hell is my ZOMBIE FIX for it alll?

The longer it takes - the better it is?

716 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:24:48pm

re: #712 thelongblogger

The point is that their higher mortality rates are NOT the result of worse health care.

For those segments of the population that are getting it, your American health care is as good as it gets. This I will concede :)

717 ArmyWife  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:25:38pm

re: #682 kansas

Well then let's go grab up Barney Frank because he just admitted he was a socialist in his spit filled rant we need an infussshhhion of more ssssppphheepppeeendiing! a very important dose of Keynesianism... (emphasis mine). He then says we can tax all those rich peoples to recoup. So go get him! He admits to being a dam* racist!

718 arethusa  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:25:58pm

re: #628 CIA Reject

If he wins (G*d forbid) they get the same thing!

Yeah, I've been wondering that...isn't there a danger of celebratory rioting, too? Like after major sports victories.re: #644 gop_patriot

Oh my. I got 23 seconds in and literally got nauseous.

re: #701 formercorpsman

sick.

re: #698 mama winger

I am sick. Sick.

It's unanimous!

719 IslandLibertarian  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:26:29pm
720 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:29:13pm

re: #681 Moe Katz

I believe the US statistics are based on live births. According to the sources I read the difference between the US and other countries that accounts for its higher infant mortality is the higher number of low birth weight infants in the US. If you look at live births, normal birth weight the differences disappear. It seems the US does not do a good job with prenatal care for the poor.

Wrong there. The birthweights in France and other high ranking countries are lower than in the US, on average. Of course, if France included its 'no-go zones' and forest dwelling Islamic vagrants into its figures, like the US does with most of our illegal aliens (who want their children born in hospitals so they are certified citizens) the picture gets even worse.

You are also still talking about 'live birth'. If a French baby is born too underweight, even if it is kicking and screaming, if it dies it is more likely than not to be reported as a perinatal death. That isn't terribly uncommon, although France is one of the worst for it. Scandinavia is about half as likely to report infant mortality this way, but still much, much more likely than in America.

721 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:31:33pm

re: #706 Moe Katz

So the children of the 'underclass', never mind illegal aliens, don't count somehow?

Not in Europe they don't. Unlike in America, they aren't even counted at all, and are excluded from the statistics almost entirely. Only the Swedes take pride in the accurate reporting of the poor healthy of their massive immigrant population.

722 right_on_target  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:32:16pm

re: #214 jemima

#189

I would have a problem if Barry was diagnosed as a pathological egomaniac, narcissist and sociopath--which he certainly seems to be. It's one thing to have been depressed and needed Zoloft but what Barry has can't be cured with pharmacology. Maybe he exhibited tendencies while at Columbia or Harvard. (Altho at Harvard would mental problems be so detectable?)

__________________________________________
Having a president on psych meds is frightening.

723 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:33:43pm

re: #716 Moe Katz

For those segments of the population that are getting it, your American health care is as good as it gets. This I will concede :)

And for those segments of the population that YOU would describe as "not getting it" - well, they are getting better care than they would in just about any other country.

Specifically including Canada, England, France, and Sweden

724 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:34:08pm

re: #720 Scion9

Wrong there. The birthweights in France and other high ranking countries are lower than in the US, on average. Of course, if France included its 'no-go zones' and forest dwelling Islamic vagrants into its figures, like the US does with most of our illegal aliens (who want their children born in hospitals so they are certified citizens) the picture gets even worse.

You are also still talking about 'live birth'. If a French baby is born too underweight, even if it is kicking and screaming, if it dies it is more likely than not to be reported as a perinatal death. That isn't terribly uncommon, although France is one of the worst for it. Scandinavia is about half as likely to report infant mortality this way, but still much, much more likely than in America.


I am very skeptical of this explanation, particularly particularly with respect to the US-Canadian comparison. Sounds like propaganda to me.

725 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:35:25pm

re: #723 thelongblogger

And for those segments of the population that YOU would describe as "not getting it" - well, they are getting better care than they would in just about any other country.

Specifically including Canada, England, France, and Sweden

That is precisely the point. Those that are NOT getting the better class of care in the US are doing VERY BADLY by all indicators.

726 Scion9  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:36:36pm

re: #724 Moe Katz

I am very skeptical of this explanation, particularly particularly with respect to the US-Canadian comparison. Sounds like propaganda to me.

Well, I didn't compare America and Canada specifically. Although Canada is a country with a tiny population and massive oil wealth.

727 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:41:43pm

re: #726 Scion9

Well, I didn't compare America and Canada specifically. Although Canada is a country with a tiny population and massive oil wealth.

I'll tell you this much: Canada is a country where the level of satisfaction with the basic health care system is much higher than it is in the US. No political party, even the governing Conservatives, would dare take away our public health insurance, although there is some demand for more parallel private services at higher cost. Despite the propaganda you hear from your insurance lobby, Canadians would never want to trade places with you on health care.

728 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:45:07pm

re: #725 Moe Katz

That is precisely the point. Those that are NOT getting the better class of care in the US are doing VERY BADLY by all indicators.

Which brings me back to what I said in #712

It's NOT the health care. Poor people and illegal immigrants in the US get BETTER health care than in other places, and have worse results. And there's lots more illegals in the US.

729 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:46:42pm

re: #727 Moe Katz

I'll tell you this much: Canada is a country where the level of satisfaction with the basic health care system is much higher than it is in the US. No political party, even the governing Conservatives, would dare take away our public health insurance, although there is some demand for more parallel private services at higher cost. Despite the propaganda you hear from your insurance lobby, Canadians would never want to trade places with you on health care.

Canadians make that trade ALL THE TIME. Somewhere between 5 and 10 percent of all Canadian Health Care (depending on how you measure it) occurs in the USA.

730 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:49:03pm

re: #728 thelongblogger

Which brings me back to what I said in #712

It's NOT the health care. Poor people and illegal immigrants in the US get BETTER health care than in other places, and have worse results. And there's lots more illegals in the US.


The poor and illegals DO NOT get better care than in other advanced countries. I have no idea where you get this idea.

731 Wyatt Earp  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:51:17pm
732 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:51:51pm

re: #729 thelongblogger

Canadians make that trade ALL THE TIME. Somewhere between 5 and 10 percent of all Canadian Health Care (depending on how you measure it) occurs in the USA.

Sure, just as Americans will go to top American clinics for specialized services, so will Canadians. Nevertheless, the public here is much more satisfied with their system. There are also some specialized Canadian clinics that Americans come up for.

733 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:54:13pm

re: #730 Moe Katz

You mean, besides from personal observation? And Talking to health care professionals from many countries? And reading news reports from other countries? And reports from health care agencies, both American and international?

Other than that, I have no idea.

734 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 6:59:42pm

re: #732 Moe Katz

Sure, just as Americans will go to top American clinics for specialized services, so will Canadians. Nevertheless, the public here is much more satisfied with their system. There are also some specialized Canadian clinics that Americans come up for.

Maybe you didn't register tha 5 to 10 percent number.

Many Canadians come to the United States for what even you and Moe would consider run of the mill, everyday health care - doctor's vists, including family doctors, blood tests, x-rays, minor medical proceedures of all kinds. I have observed this personally in a number of Seattle area hospitals, and have discussed it with friendss who are doctors and nurses.

Once in a while, we even hear of people with real emergencies (broken bones) who choose to drive through the Peace Arch and get treated in Blaine, Washington. Because it's faster.

735 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:00:50pm

re: #733 thelongblogger

You mean, besides from personal observation? And Talking to health care professionals from many countries? And reading news reports from other countries? And reports from health care agencies, both American and international?

Other than that, I have no idea.

Fine. You think the US has good accessibilty of affordable, high quality health care for all. So persuade the majority of your fellow citizens of that.

736 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:05:53pm

re: #734 thelongblogger

Maybe you didn't register tha 5 to 10 percent number.

Many Canadians come to the United States for what even you and Moe would consider run of the mill, everyday health care - doctor's vists, including family doctors, blood tests, x-rays, minor medical proceedures of all kinds. I have observed this personally in a number of Seattle area hospitals, and have discussed it with friendss who are doctors and nurses.

Once in a while, we even hear of people with real emergencies (broken bones) who choose to drive through the Peace Arch and get treated in Blaine, Washington. Because it's faster.


In some cases the provincial health insurance plans actually choose to send people to the States and pay for the services because it's cheaper than duplicating those services for a smaller population in that particular Canadian region. That's just rational. As for people going to the US for services that could be obtained in Canada, and doing so on their own initiative, that's up to them. That's a luxury that they may be able to obtain in Canada in the future if more private sector services are permitted here in the future. At the moment the problem is keeping enough medical specialists up here when they can make more money stateside.

737 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:10:05pm

re: #735 Moe Katz

Fine. You think the US has good accessibilty of affordable, high quality health care for all. So persuade the majority of your fellow citizens of that.

You'll buy up all the newspapers and television stations for me?

Old Socialist proverb: "A free press only helps those who own one."

738 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:12:34pm

re: #736 Moe Katz

As for people going to the US for services that could be obtained in Canada, and doing so on their own initiative, that's up to them.

The reason they come is they CAN'T get good, timely, respectful treatment in Canada.

739 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:14:56pm

re: #736 Moe Katz

. As for people going to the US for services that could be obtained in Canada, and doing so on their own initiative, that's up to them. That's a luxury that they may be able to obtain in Canada in the future ..snip.

Good, timely, respectful health care is a LUXURY?

740 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:17:45pm

re: #736 Moe Katz

At the moment the problem is keeping enough medical specialists up here when they can make more money stateside.

You could pay them twice as much and they still wouldn't want to work for the idiots who run the Canadian Health Service. Three times as much! Maybe four...

Make american HMOs look personal, caring and paient oriented.

741 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:17:48pm

re: #738 thelongblogger

The reason they come is they CAN'T get good, timely, respectful treatment in Canada.

I dunnot about respectful, what I experienced as a student in NYC was, ummm, whatever.

Again, Canadians are less likely than Americans to be dissatisfied with the system in their country. Waiting times for non-lifesaving procedures are probably the biggest issue, again because of our physicial shortages. It's too easy for them to go to the States and make a hundred, hundred-fifty grand more per year. But Canada's waiting times are not typical of all countries that have single-payer systems. Our problem is being too close to the US. Australia has shorter waiting times than the US despite having a national health system.

742 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:20:27pm

re: #740 thelongblogger

You could pay them twice as much and they still wouldn't want to work for the idiots who run the Canadian Health Service. Three times as much! Maybe four...

Make american HMOs look personal, caring and paient oriented.


Not really. The Canadian medical insurance people don't micro-manage the way HMO's do.

743 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:22:43pm

re: #739 thelongblogger

Good, timely, respectful health care is a LUXURY?

The main issue is the waiting times. Our physican training and so in is interchangeable with the US system.

744 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:27:01pm

re: #741 Moe Katz

Again, Canadians are less likely than Americans to be dissatisfied with the system in their country. Waiting times for non-lifesaving procedures are probably the biggest issue, again because of our physicial shortages. It's too easy for them to go to the States and make a hundred, hundred-fifty grand more per year. But Canada's waiting times are not typical of all countries that have single-payer systems. Our problem is being too close to the US. Australia has shorter waiting times than the US despite having a national health system.

Long waiting times ARE typical of most countries that have socialized health care syetems (of whatever exact type). I speak in particular of England, Sweden, Italy and yes, Australia.

Although Australia is more troubled by city/rural imbalances. And Australia has LOTS of rural. Even suburbs in Australia are underserved.

And they've had trouble getting the number of med students right, leading to failed efforts to bring in foreigners, and mis-matches in graduates and internships/jobs.

745 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:37:01pm

re: #743 Moe Katz

The main issue is the waiting times. Our physican training and so in is interchangeable with the US system.

Doctors that I know seem to agree about the training level. But not about the rest.

Canadian hospitals and clinics are notorious for being too slow to adapt new technology, even the most obviously advantageous stuff.

I first encountered the Canadian System when they were refusing to buy CAT scanners in the mid 70s. Then there was lithotropy... The great Canadian dialysis scandals were before my time, though.

I'll have to ask around what they're doing wrong now - I've been out of the business for a while now.

I've addressed the 'timely' issue already.

As for the 'respectful' care in Canada, I've noticed a tendency for Canadians to complain vigorously about it - in waiting rooms in Seattle, and then still claim that Canadian health care is better. American doctors and nurses are taught not to respond by saying "Then why are you here?" unprofessional, don't you know... But I have been known to ask. I've always assumed the real reason was denial, but who knows?

746 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:39:05pm

re: #742 Moe Katz

Not really. The Canadian medical insurance people don't micro-manage the way HMO's do.

Oh, yes they do. But perhaps we should call it macro-managing.

The difference is that the Canadians do it with a hammer, while the HMOs prefer the dagger to the back method.

747 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:41:08pm

re: #744 thelongblogger

Long waiting times ARE typical of most countries that have socialized health care syetems (of whatever exact type). I speak in particular of England, Sweden, Italy and yes, Australia.

Although Australia is more troubled by city/rural imbalances. And Australia has LOTS of rural. Even suburbs in Australia are underserved.

And they've had trouble getting the number of med students right, leading to failed efforts to bring in foreigners, and mis-matches in graduates and internships/jobs.

Some data I was looking at showed waiting times were better in Australia than the US. Suppose it depends on how that's measured. France had shorter waiting times than the US as well. One solution would be to deregulate medicine, i.e. to let as many become physicians as were capable of meeting the required academic standards, and let competition improve availability and lower prices.

748 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:50:31pm

re: #747 Moe Katz

Some data I was looking at showed waiting times were better in Australia than the US..

In most places in the United States, waiting times (as defined in socialized systems) is effectively NIL. You can see a doctor, and get most kinds of treatment, tomorrow, if you really try/insist.

But most people don't want/need that, so they make an appointment for whenever is convenient for both them and their docor. Most doctors will see a regular patient within the week. Non rushed surgery is usually scheduled FURTHER away than the earliest possible date, giving the patient time to get organized, tell the boss, etc.

The resulting times are then compared to those in other countries where patients have NO choice, but have to go when the system gets around to them. And still the American times are usually quicker.

749 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:54:17pm

re: #748 thelongblogger


The resulting times are then compared to those in other countries where patients have NO choice, but have to go when the system gets around to them. And still the American times are usually quicker.

In Canada we have as much choice as you do in the States. But not every GP is taking new patients.

750 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 7:55:57pm

re: #747 Moe Katz

One solution would be to deregulate medicine, i.e. to let as many become physicians as were capable of meeting the required academic standards, and let competition improve availability and lower prices.

Won't work in France (for one) where they have lots of doctors who aren't practicing.

It used to be policy in France (and may still be) to graduate more MDs than there were places for. Some ended up doing other things with their lives. This had two effects: it politicized the doctors, who had better prospects if the people making the hiring decisions knew they were party supporters. And t made French doctors more likely to engage in charity work (thing Medecins sans frontiers) because they couldn't be sure they would have control over their career at home.

Creating more doctors won't help if the state continues to control who can practice, and where.

751 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:01:07pm

re: #750 thelongblogger

Creating more doctors won't help if the state continues to control who can practice, and where.

Right. If you're going to go the free market route then you can't regulate that.

752 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:10:30pm

re: #749 Moe Katz

In Canada we have as much choice as you do in the States..

I was going to reply "Either you lie, or Macleans does!"

But I find that all my Macleans health related links are broken. So that part of the discuassion will have to wait until I figure our the Macleans news article archive system.

Or find a relevant article in one of any number of Canadian newspapers/magazines. Can you read French - I seem to remember some in Le Devoir. Maybe I can find those.

753 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:19:33pm

Hmmm... interesting.

It seems that if you save a link that looks like

...macleans.ca/science/health/article.jsp...

that always points to the article in question.

But if you save link of the form

...maclens.ca/canada/wire/article.jsp....

that link eventually expires and defaults to something random.

I'll have to post a bleg to the Canadian nerds who read LGF in the middle of the day sometime and ask if anyone knows what's going on..

754 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:25:19pm

To sum up something that I thought I had a link to but don't (and yes, I know that's not fair - shall we continue this discussion another day? We're the only ones on this thread anyway):

Macleans once said that the shortage of doctors in Canada was NOT the result of so many going to the United States (although some do). They argued that even if all the Canadian doctors in the US returned, that STILL wouldn't be enough.

The article argued that the governement had chosen to hold MD numbers down for a number of reasons, including its belief that improvements in health care would lead to improvements in health would lead to lowered demand for health care.

And anyone who would believe THAT shouldn't have any say in health care.

Macro-managing with a hammer, as I remarked above.

755 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:32:58pm

re: #754 thelongblogger

To sum up something that I thought I had a link to but don't (and yes, I know that's not fair - shall we continue this discussion another day? We're the only ones on this thread anyway):

Macleans once said that the shortage of doctors in Canada was NOT the result of so many going to the United States (although some do). They argued that even if all the Canadian doctors in the US returned, that STILL wouldn't be enough.

The article argued that the governement had chosen to hold MD numbers down for a number of reasons, including its belief that improvements in health care would lead to improvements in health would lead to lowered demand for health care.

And anyone who would believe THAT shouldn't have any say in health care.

Macro-managing with a hammer, as I remarked above.


They're gearing up to train more doctors in Canada at the moment, and to fast-track the licencing of qualified foreign physicians....

756 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:43:25pm

re: #755 Moe Katz

They're gearing up to train more doctors in Canada at the moment, and to fast-track the licencing of qualified foreign physicians....

Yeah, I think that was in the exact article I was trying to link. And they were having trouble doing it, as I recall.

If you're Canadian, give me your personal opinion: Who complains more about Canadian health Care; the patients or the doctors?

And how many newspaper/magazine/blog articles criticising Canadian Health Care do you see in the average year?

757 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 8:47:53pm

re: #756 thelongblogger

Yeah, I think that was in the exact article I was trying to link. And they were having trouble doing it, as I recall.

If you're Canadian, give me your personal opinion: Who complains more about Canadian health Care; the patients or the doctors?

And how many newspaper/magazine/blog articles criticising Canadian Health Care do you see in the average year?

In my experience the physicians complain a great deal more than the patients. But they have high expectations with respect to income and professional autonomy compared to other occupational groups, which may not be entirely justifiable. As to your second question, I don't read much on the Canadian health care system one way or the other. I'm a professional and I get most of my information verbally.

758 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 9:11:54pm

re: #757 Moe Katz

they have high expectations with respect to income and professional autonomy compared to other occupational groups, which may not be entirely justifiable.

Are you saying that the income/status of Canadian doctors has fallen so far that they are dis-satisfied with what they are getting in comparison to what they used to get/exepected to get? Or that they expected their income/status to improve more than it did?

759 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 9:44:45pm

re: #758 thelongblogger

Are you saying that the income/status of Canadian doctors has fallen so far that they are dis-satisfied with what they are getting in comparison to what they used to get/exepected to get? Or that they expected their income/status to improve more than it did?

I think they just see the grass being greener on the other side of the border. Most have never known any other system than Canadian medicare, it's been around since the 60's.

760 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 9:48:14pm

Many think they have the divine right to be treated like God and live like a king....

761 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 9:59:59pm

re: #759 Moe Katz

I think they just see the grass being greener on the other side of the border. Most have never known any other system than Canadian medicare, it's been around since the 60's.

re: #760 Moe Katz

Many think they have the divine right to be treated like God and live like a king....

I get the impression you're not as 'satisfied' with Canadian Health care as you think.

762 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:01:04pm

[Link: www.kff.org...]

Here are 5-year-old figures on health spending by country. From what I gather, physicians' incomes are the major factor differentiating the US from other countries and accounting for the 15% of GDP going into that sector.

763 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:04:00pm

re: #761 thelongblogger

I get the impression you're not as 'satisfied' with Canadian Health care as you think.

I think there's room for improvement, sure. But I honestly find the US system morally indefensible. We Canucks are proud of having one decent standard of care for all, nobody falling through the cracks and unable to pay for needed medications.

764 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:06:22pm
[Link: www.kff.org...]

Here are 5-year-old figures on health spending by country. From what I gather, physicians' incomes are the major factor differentiating the US from other countries and accounting for the 15% of GDP going into that sector.

Salaries (especially for doctors) are the big difference in the size of the health care budget in almost all countries. Most everything else costs the same everywhere in the developed world.

765 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:09:36pm

re: #764 thelongblogger

Salaries (especially for doctors) are the big difference in the size of the health care budget in almost all countries. Most everything else costs the same everywhere in the developed world.

Sounds like the AMA/CMA are operating a cartel. Should this be tolerated in a society committed to free markets?

766 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:10:44pm

re: #763 Moe Katz

. We Canucks are proud of having one decent standard of care for all, nobody falling through the cracks and unable to pay for needed medications.

You can be as proud as you want - it's still not true.

Mostly because there's a lot more ways for health care to be inaccessable besides being 'unable to pay'.

And there is no 'one decent standard of care for all' in Canada or anywhere else. These are human beings we're talking about - perfection is NOT given.

And Canada is no better in this respect than anyone else - they just think they are.

767 thelongblogger  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:16:23pm

re: #765 Moe Katz

Sounds like the AMA/CMA are operating a cartel. Should this be tolerated in a society committed to free markets?

No body has been able to find a solution to the doctor licensing problem. In the end, someone has to test doctors for competence, and whoever it is will have a bias of some kind. Even an independent private agency, even the public.

Given the wide variety of approaches take in various countries that I know of, and the fact that none of them work very well, maybe we should all be very humble about our ability to find ANY solution, much less a simple, obvious one.

768 Moe Katz  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 10:17:07pm

Oh, I don't think we've got the best of the single-payer systems, but it's a decent one that provides good prenatal care and elder care and other non-acute forms of care that result in better health outcomes. If I had every bone broken in my body in a car accident I'd probably have a better chance in a large urban ER in the States, no doubt. You folks will end up with some kind of major reform eventually, whichever party is in power. I don't think single payer will be the way for the US, but rather some kind of patchwork that involves the private and public sectors.

And on that note, I'm retiring for the night; thanks for the conversation.

769 boiledwombat  Tue, Oct 21, 2008 11:05:54pm

Much of the cost of health care is not going to health care.

A key element which drives up the cost is the alliance between insurance companies and lawyers to plunder the income of doctors and nurses. An appalling percentage of health care dollars (more than half) goes to administration of health insurance plans and “defensive medical practices” (e.g too many expensive tests, designed to forestall a lawsuit rather than diagnose an illness).

An obstetrician may commonly pay up to 35% of their gross income for malpractice insurance. That eventually gets worked into the bill that the patient will pay. If the insurance company pays the bill, it will show up in premium rates to the patient.

Insurance companies usually pay standard fees for medical procedures which are 20% to 30% lower than the fees charged to patients without insurance. For procedures such as a MRI or CAT scan, the insurance payment can be 75% less than the rate billed to a patient without insurance. As a “private payer” you cannot get those discounts even if you pay cash in advance for a procedure. There is no possible justification for this situation.

Insurance companies routinely delay payments to medical providers and commonly refuse to pay large bills in full, regardless of standard fee schedules or contract terms. For invoices over $100,000, hospitals usually will settle for a fraction of the amount rather than go to court for twenty years.

These practices do not reduce costs; they merely shift them on to the patients who cannot resist with legal teams.

Reform is needed. Strict limitations on malpractice liability might be the fastest, most effective place to start.


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