there's nothing left in mine!

Not that it's very big.

argentina just took control of the pension funds of their citizens

hey, at this rate, the dems are gonna drive the US into 3rd world status faster than you can say Obama.

shoe shine anyone?

I'm "lucky" since I don't have a 401(k) for the Dems to triple-tax.

re: #5 Maximu§

shoe shine anyone?

is that a racist comment?

/LLL

Just wait. If they get their way, they'll take your 401k, then tax you for taking it, and then tax the tax.

Well, maybe they're just looking out for us. If taxes are going up, then it's better to set your money aside post-tax.

re: #7 noshariaincanada

is that a racist comment?

/LLL

Careful, or your gonna land us both in a re-education camp...:(

“I want to spend our nation’s dollar for retirement security better. Everybody would now be covered” if the plan were adopted, Ghilarducci said.

Insurance for those who don't work to afford it!
Retirement for those who don't work to deserve it!

The fact that the Dems are in line with Obama on his tax plan is very scary. They have let hatred of their imaginary foes color their reason.

This is why our 401K's are worthless now.

Democratic Congress In Session.

re: #7 noshariaincanada

is that a racist comment?

/LLL

The way things seem to be going soon anything someone not of the ruling party could be interpreted as a racist comment.

Vote Democratic. Because you're too stupid to now whats good for you.

Bloody peasants.

Repost from earlier to day.

The Forgotten Man
William Graham Sumner (1840-1910)

The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man. For once let us look him up and consider his case, for the characteristic of all social doctors is, that they fix their minds on some man or group of men whose case appeals to the sympathies and the imagination, and they plan remedies addressed to the particular trouble; they do not understand that all the parts of society hold together, and that forces which are set in action act and react throughout the whole organism, until an equilibrium is produced by a re-adjustment of all interests and rights. They therefore ignore entirely the source from which they must draw all the energy which they employ in their remedies, and they ignore all the effects on other members of society than the ones they have in view. They are always under the dominion of the superstition of government, and, forgetting that a government produces nothing at all, they leave out of sight the first fact to be remembered in all social discussion - that the State cannot get a cent for any man without taking it from some other man, and this latter must be a man who has produced and saved it. This latter is the Forgotten Man.

RTWT

"From each according to his measure" = "Work like a slave until you die"
"To each according to his needs" = "Bread, water, and the occasional meal worm"

Otherwise known as Obamanomics.

Logical progression of socialism. Make everyone absolutely Dependant on government, and they are at the mercy of the "benevolent dictatorship".

There is gonna be change, all right, and its all gonna be left turns.

My retirement plans are 401a's. Does anyone know the difference between those and 401k's (the internet is not being useful), and whether the 401a's are affected by this (article is not useful)?

re: #5 Maximu§

shoe shine anyone?

how much for cowboy boots?
;)

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.

Does anyone but me think this is crazy talk?

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

So, they're going to discourage people from saving for their own retirement, forcing them to be more dependent on Social Security, which will be bankrupt before most of us retire? Swell plan, geniuses.

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Vote Democratic. Because you're too stupid to now whats good for you.

Bloody peasants.

Why should we be reverting to a 19th century political/economic philosophy? Time we go all the way and bring back the 7th century! Sharia and Jihad all the way, I say!

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(Can't emphasize enough that this was 100,000,000,000,000% sarcasm)

re: #21 nyc redneck

how much for cowboy boots?
;)

Free shine for you Princess.

re: #6 FurryOldGuyJeans

Read the article.

They are looking at "redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute".

So, since social security is basically bankrupt, or soon will be, we'll just create a new social security fund with the cash you've set aside, and raid that. Sweet!

re: #18 Iron Fist

"From each according to his measure" = "Work like a slave until you die"
"To each according to his needs" = "Bread, water, and the occasional meal worm"

Otherwise known as Obamanomics.

Slight correct

Obamarxanomics.

re: #22 pat

You don't really believe the nonsense that Obama is going to cut your taxes, do you?

re: #26 Maximu§

Free shine for you Princess.

i'll give you a nice tip tho.
:D

Great. Now I have to go find a few barrels to wear to work. Luckily, I have the legs for them.

re: #22 pat

Does anyone but me think this is crazy talk?

You wanna know whats crazy? We are on the verge of tossing the America we know into the trash heap of history so's we can join the Euroweenies in perpetual stagnation in pursuit of third worldliness.

re: #25 FurryOldGuyJeans

I hope you were being sarcastic!

/ ;-P

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration.

They've already raided SS to the point I'll never see a fucking dime of it. If I could, I'd stop paying into it now. Now they want to make me put more money into it? FUCK YOU.

This is the same scam they are using for Social Security. They want control of all that money so they can spend it NOW. Will it be there when you retire? Who knows.

re: #27 Liechtentrager

Read the article.

They are looking at "redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute".

This sounds quite a bit like the Bush plan that Democrats said meant he was pandering to Big Business and filibustered it until the GOP just gave up.

re: #31 nyc redneck

i'll give you a nice tip tho.
:D

I have a nice tip you you also.

This in and of itself should cost Obama 10 points.

for you also I meant...God, Im retarded

re: #22 pat

Does anyone but me think this is crazy talk?

No - it's brilliant! They're getting another 5% out of you - but they didn't raise your taxes!

ugh

re: #20 arethusa

You might be able to convert your 401K in a Roth IRA. I think it's called a Rollover IRA. You can ask a broker about it. The article doesn't say IRA's are included and once politicians notice the loophole they'll close it.

re: #10 Maximu§

can I also join ?

your respectfully, a south ASian ;)

re: #27 Liechtentrager

Read the article.

They are looking at "redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute".

So, since social security is basically bankrupt, or soon will be, we'll just create a new social security fund with the cash you've set aside, and raid that. Sweet!

I don't have a 401(k) for the simple fact that I am not a "productive member of society" because I can not work due to disability. I try to get work and nary an employer wants the "burden".

The next surprise will be to all the folks who did the standard to roth IRA conversion.

The electorate will find this much more pertinent to their personal lives than Obama's radical nutwad associations like Ayers, et al. The McCain campaign should be hammering this 401K thing like gangbusters. As much as I hate to admit it, Carville was correct all those years ago: It IS the economy, Stupid. People do vote their pocketbook. Losing a 401K could (literally) hit people where they live, enough to question their voting preference.

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If everything works out right, you'll die before you get to collect a dime from "Social Security". That was, of course, the plan all along. No one anticipated modern medicine extending the human life expectancy the way it has in the last 70-80 years.

re: #39 Lee Coller

This in and of itself should cost Obama 10 points.

Should, Would, Could?

re: #39 Lee Coller

This in and of itself should cost Obama 10 points.

It should, but it won't.

re: #27 Liechtentrager

They are looking at "redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute".

Why don't I like the phrase "obliged to contribute"?

This is of a piece with Obama's desire to make it easier for people to loot their IRAs to pay for current needs.

People got into IRAs and 401(k)s because they knew SS was a Ponzi scheme that wouldn't be there for their retirement. Now the socialists want to destroy those private retirement plans, so everyone is by necessity dependent on the state.

Their transparency gives me chills.

re: #39 Lee Coller

It won't. It will fly under the radar even if McCain tries to make something of it.

re: #33 maddogg

You wanna know whats crazy? We are on the verge of tossing the America we know into the trash heap of history so's we can join the Euroweenies in perpetual stagnation in pursuit of third worldliness.

Maddog and ironfist
The dis-investment in American business would be disasterous. This is another form of Social Security, a required tax that balloons the national debt beyond the current runaway pace, and is likely to cause uncontrolled inflation. It is exactly the scheme adopted for the famous Russian 'pensions'.

Damn... I should have used this as my headline back when I wrote it on the 15th... Great Society, Take 401(k).

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

(lol)
/not QUITE out loud because men probably died in that one

re: #18 Iron Fist

you forgot to introduce sex beside water, and food....

.... anyways not sure, if that will be offered to us the 'Bad' infidels

Dems wanting to seize 401k's.....

Reason #1,271,724,917,413 not to vote democrat.

Get the torches and pitchforks.

re: #53 buzzsawmonkey

Just by the way, can anyone tell me of any nation, anywhere in the world, that has elected a leader from a minority ethnicity merely to "prove something to the world?"

Anyone? Anywhere?

Yet I have had seemingly sentient people explain to me seriously that it is incumbent upon the United States, for some reason, to do this next month.

I do not recall a "minority" leader being elected by South Africa once majority rule was enacted in order to prove that the ANC was not racist.

I do not recall any European nation electing a minority leader for the purpose of proving that its people were not racist.

Can anyone give me an example of this ever having been done in modern history?

I think the Minoans did it right before Thira erupted?

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

I just through out a financial magazine on my desk and the back cover shows tombstones for deals done by CIT. One reads:

ETHIAD AIRWAYS
Two Airbus A320s and Two Airbus A330s
Operating Leases

The might not really be there airplane. Probably owned by CALPERS or some other big fund.

re: #47 Iron Fist

If everything works out right, you'll die before you get to collect a dime from "Social Security". That was, of course, the plan all along. No one anticipated modern medicine extending the human life expectancy the way it has in the last 70-80 years.

Ahhh, soon dying a natural death from old age might become an anachronism.

////

re: #34 jcm

Have you seen #23?
You GOTTA look.

re: #51 Palandine

Look, 0bama will need the funds to fund his new "civilian" force that will make sure that the purity of the revolution is preserved.

re: #51 Palandine

This is of a piece with Obama's desire to make it easier for people to loot their IRAs to pay for current needs.

People got into IRAs and 401(k)s because they knew SS was a Ponzi scheme that wouldn't be there for their retirement. Now the socialists want to destroy those private retirement plans, so everyone is by necessity dependent on the state.

Their transparency gives me chills.

People contributed into 401(k) plans because there were tax benefits to doing so. Employers would contribute, and there were tax breaks offered.

These Democrats want to eliminate the tax breaks, eliminating the very reason for contributing into these individual plans and would push everyone into plans that have a far lower rate of return.

re: #50 arethusa

Why don't I like the phrase "obliged to contribute"?

Has the same ring of collectivism as the "obliged to work" meme.

re: #5 Maximu§

shoe shine anyone?

IF Obama's the POTUS, you'll have to figure out how to put a shine on newspaper and duct tape, which will be the only "shoes" many will be able to afford!

...from my cold, dead hands..

I've been contributing to my 401K for 18 years now, but now I'll have to "be patriotic" and hand part of it over to winos, crackheads, illegal aliens and the rest of the loser class because its the fair thing to do?

I wish I could cash the thing out right now and bury the cash someplace, anything would be better than handing it over to the Dems so that they can "spread it around".

re: #66 lawhawk

People contributed into 401(k) plans because there were tax benefits to doing so. Employers would contribute, and there were tax breaks offered.

These Democrats want to eliminate the tax breaks, eliminating the very reason for contributing into these individual plans and would push everyone into plans that have a far lower rate of return.

Only the Government knows what is best for us all, Obama knows the most of what is best. Dissent is not allowed.

We are going to leave our children nothing.

CDs and my mattress are looking better and better.

They'll do it.

It will make things worse.

Then they'll blame Bush.

Now this is just loopy as hell. I don't have time to go into details - read all the stories and blogs that explain why - because I am busy today helping people manage their retirement money! - and none of my customers want Uncle "Spread the wealth around" Sam to do it for them!

Just one example of the reaction to this - US News & World Report blogger:
Would Obama, Dems Kill 401(k) Plans?
October 23, 2008 10:47 AM ET James Pethokoukis

I hate to use the "S" word, but the American government would never do something as, well, socialist as seize private pension funds, right? This is exactly what cash-strapped Argentina just did in the name of protecting workers' retirement accounts (Efharisto, Fausta's Blog). Now, even Uncle Sam isn't that stupid, but some Democrats might try something almost as loopy: kill 401(k) plans.

I did find one piece that thought it was a great idea - it was out of SFran and quoted Berkeley at length.

Of course they want it. It's THEIR money after all. American citizens can't be trusted to provide for themselves you know.

//

This is not surprising and should be a huge warning to all of us about the future.

The Republican Party is the Democrat party of old, and the Democrat Party is following the radical, revolutionary, communist/socialist manifesto of the 1960s and cold war. Obama (the leader of the Democrat party) openly stated
that it was his intention to "spread the wealth around", and the Democrat, Leftist media is finding thousands of Democrat Americans that support it. Let this be a warning to you.

It took the Republicans to nationalize the banking and housing systems, and the Dems are going to go after everything else.

Call me crazy if you wish. But the facts show that what was once the hard-left, radical/revolutionary communist blueprint for the destruction of the United States on the behalf of Communism is being peddled today as mainstream Democrat policy!

Welcome to America!

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

The extent of injuries to the crew is unknown

Looking at the position of the cockpit..I bet it hurt.

/dumbasses

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

When they first passed SS it was "guaranteed" that all the money that was put in your account would be returned to you. That died before 1940.

re: #72 loppyd

CDs and my mattress are looking better and better.

You bet your ass they are.

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

OMG. What idiots. No reports of injuries or deaths, but since it appears to be under a news blackout, according to the story at the link, we may never know.

re: #69 locutus

...from my cold, dead hands..

I've been contributing to my 401K for 18 years now, but now I'll have to "be patriotic" and hand part of it over to winos, crackheads, illegal aliens and the rest of the loser class because its the fair thing to do?

I wish I could cash the thing out right now and bury the cash someplace, anything would be better than handing it over to the Dems so that they can "spread it around".

Resistance is futile, we only want to raise quality of life as we (Dems) define it.

Now, if only our candidate could package this along with - Pelosi & Reed and their new super majority..
Please John.. emotion please.

re: #69 locutus

That's double-plus ungoodthink. You need re-education at one of the trans-siberian joy camps.

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Found out from my dept. administrator - 401a's are controlled by the states (they're for state employees), so they should be exempt from this plan if it goes through.

re: #3 phoenixgirl

argentina just took control of the pension funds of their citizens

Barack Hussein Peron

The DOW's doing that yo-yo thing again.

When the Democrats start "contemplating", hang on to your ass.

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

So you give 5% of your pay into Social Security in exchange for a $600 check, and they continue to do whatever they want with the money. Brilliant! Where do I sign up?

Quick, McCain, promise not to use this against the 0bama campaign!

[/sarcasm]

re: #69 locutus

...from my cold, dead hands..

I've been contributing to my 401K for 18 years now, but now I'll have to "be patriotic" and hand part of it over to winos, crackheads, illegal aliens and the rest of the loser class because its the fair thing to do?

I wish I could cash the thing out right now and bury the cash someplace, anything would be better than handing it over to the Dems so that they can "spread it around".

You can cash it out with a penalty - 10% I believe - and pay taxes on it as income. If they really get close to passing this I would expect a complete market collapse as people liquidate their 401ks and take the penalty rather then trust the funds to the government.

re: #43 loveguru

can I also join ?

your respectfully, a south ASian ;)

only if your a girl....

re: #71 pat

We are going to leave our children nothing.

..except a nice big govt to comfort them.

re: #69 locutus

...from my cold, dead hands..

I've been contributing to my 401K for 18 years now, but now I'll have to "be patriotic" and hand part of it over to winos, crackheads, illegal aliens and the rest of the loser class because its the fair thing to do?

I wish I could cash the thing out right now and bury the cash someplace, anything would be better than handing it over to the Dems so that they can "spread it around".

/you selfish bastard. what about all the people who didn't have the discipline to save? you sound like the annoying hen in that bread making story, or the bird in the squirrel that had fun and didn't collect any nuts for the winter story....jeez

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

Don't the Arabs have an old saying to cover stupidity? Allah's will?

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

Maybe they were practicing flying the plane into solid objects, like buildings.

there aren't enough young people putting into the system.
the greedy dems are like vampires, now looking at what hard working older people have saved .
retirees don't need the rug pulled out from under them.
the g.d. gov't needs to cut spending.

This is the 'Joe the Plumber' question I would have asked BO: You're going to tax people with incomes over 250K, define 'income'. Does it include:

401k contributions?
Employer cost of health insurance?
Life insurance dividends?
Etc... Etc.. Etc..

Pretty soon it's: congratulations Mr. Reject, YOU'RE RICH!

Now pay up you bourgeois bastid!

re: #77 jetprop

Looking at the position of the cockpit..I bet it hurt.

/dumbasses

That is one Hell of a crash, I do hope the flight crew is Ok tho.

re: #56 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(lol)
/not QUITE out loud because men probably died in that one

While living in Iran we knew a bunch of Boeing / McDonald Douglas and others training Iranians on equipment.

The most frustrating thing for all of them was "Inshallah" (If Allah wills it). The Iranians would literally skip safety checks and other critical items. The thinking being that crashing or a successful flight is if Inshallah.

piss off as democrat--live long enough to collect your ss.

re: #90 jester6

You can cash it out with a penalty - 10% I believe - and pay taxes on it as income. If they really get close to passing this I would expect a complete market collapse as people liquidate their 401ks and take the penalty rather then trust the funds to the government.

Think of all the revenue those penalties will raise for the years budget.

/

The doomsday clock on my 401k just got moved up. Eventually it will be seized to pay debt as Argentina is doing.

re: #73 Ben Hur

They'll do it.

It will make things worse.

Then they'll blame Bush.

BEN HUR!

The Democrats will eventually lose control of congress. When that happens the Republicans damn well better not repeat their mistakes of the past and play hardball instead of nicey nice.

Heh.
What took the dems/socialists so long?

Gord, then our neostalinist Chancellor of the Exchequer, has been taking £5 billion every year from the pension funds (they are run similarly to yours, with less leeway for the employee) ...

Work, save, look after yourself and your family and you'll be b*ggered in a socialist state.
Scrounge, live on nice fat state handouts - all is lovely, you'll be better off than the idiot who is working and pays you with his/her taxes.

re: #42 Killgore Trout

You might be able to convert your 401K in a Roth IRA. I think it's called a Rollover IRA. You can ask a broker about it. The article doesn't say IRA's are included and once politicians notice the loophole they'll close it.

But doesn't the IRA laws require that a person must start drawing on those funds at age 59 1/2? That's devastating for anyone in their 50's.

re: #89 gmsc

Quick, McCain, promise not to use this against the 0bama campaign!

[/sarcasm]

I really think McCain might just decide to play nice once again. So far McCain on the attack reminds me too much of a barking laso apso.

re: #90 jester6

You can cash it out with a penalty - 10% I believe - and pay taxes on it as income. If they really get close to passing this I would expect a complete market collapse as people liquidate their 401ks and take the penalty rather then trust the funds to the government.

Thats what me and the wife will do. If this even hits the floor for a vote, we are out of there so fast all they will see is dust.

re: #87 x-wing

The DOW's doing that yo-yo thing again.

Apparently the Dow is an Obama supporter.

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration.

And this would be IN ADDITION TO the percentage SSA already takes, right?

re: #29 Iron Fist

You don't really believe the nonsense that Obama is going to cut your taxes, do you?

Well, technically, he'll lower taxes on most of us. Then raise taxes on the people and companies that we buy things from, causing them to raise prices on everything.

Do any of these idiots play chess? They can't seem to think beyond the first move of anything.

re: #72 loppyd

CDs and my mattress are looking better and better.

Guns and Gold.

my guess is they will not just tax 401k's

they will "nationalize" them

and new money will be printed with "his" likeness

Onebama dollar bills
Fivebama dollar bills
and so on

re: #100 jcm

While living in Iran we knew a bunch of Boeing / McDonald Douglas and others training Iranians on equipment.

The most frustrating thing for all of them was "Inshallah" (If Allah wills it). The Iranians would literally skip safety checks and other critical items. The thinking being that crashing or a successful flight is if Inshallah.

Really?!?! Sheesh!

re: #88 Pawn of the Oppressor

Don't forget you are already paying about 15% to social security and medicare. Half "paid" by your employer and half paid by you. This would raise payroll taxes to about 20%.

re: #80 CyanSnowHawk

Airbus reports that it was an engine runup test, but no mention of who was on board other than 5 people were injured, three seriously enough to be hospitalized.

actually, he'll rename the dollar
the Obamo
kinda like the Euro

McCain needs to hit on this right now.

"Do you really want this gang running the country for four years with nobody to stop them?"

*Bar Stool Economics *
by David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

/And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier./

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

re: #118 Adrenalyn

actually, he'll rename the dollar
the Obamo
kinda like the Euro

i think he'll just name it "mine"

re: #53 buzzsawmonkey

Just by the way, can anyone tell me of any nation, anywhere in the world, that has elected a leader from a minority ethnicity merely to "prove something to the world?"

Anyone? Anywhere?

Yet I have had seemingly sentient people explain to me seriously that it is incumbent upon the United States, for some reason, to do this next month.

I do not recall a "minority" leader being elected by South Africa once majority rule was enacted in order to prove that the ANC was not racist.

I do not recall any European nation electing a minority leader for the purpose of proving that its people were not racist.

Can anyone give me an example of this ever having been done in modern history?

Erm - nope.
Unless you count Stalin, who, after all, was from a minority, being Georgian and not Russian ...

bbl

re: #78 Shr_Nfr

When they first passed SS it was "guaranteed" that all the money that was put in your account would be returned to you. That died before 1940.

I read somewhere that the first person to collect Social Security was a woman who paid in less than 5 dollars before becoming eligible to collect. The Roosevelt administration made a big to-do of handing over her first check. Unfortunately for the system, she lived to be 90 and collected thousands. Someone should have figured out the flaw in the plan right there.

If we get Obambi, Reid and Pelosi and they have an overwhelming majority, this is exactly what we are in store for. Unfucking real.

News of the Future: "Earlier today, there was a terrorist attack on Washington D.C.. Terrorists flew a plane directly into Capitol Hill while Congress was in session. Already, we're seeing footage of people celebrating by dancing in the streets of Palestine, as well as much of the United States."

re: #123 yma o hyd

Erm - nope.
Unless you count Stalin, who, after all, was from a minority, being Georgian and not Russian ...

And that worked out so well?

re: #113 jcm

Ammunition. There are few things more useless than a gun without ammunition.

re: #66 lawhawk

People contributed into 401(k) plans because there were tax benefits to doing so. Employers would contribute, and there were tax breaks offered.

These Democrats want to eliminate the tax breaks, eliminating the very reason for contributing into these individual plans and would push everyone into plans that have a far lower rate of return.

It's remarkably similar to Obama's Universal healthcare plan. The Government becomes an insurance provider and sets the standards (and tax breaks) for private insurance. After they drive the private insurance companies out of business the entire healthcare field's only source of income in the government. This is what socialism looks like.

re: #99 Maximu§

That is one Hell of a crash, I do hope the flight crew is Ok tho.

Ditto. I'm just being my usual smartass self :-)

re: #106 Intrepid

But doesn't the IRA laws require that a person must start drawing on those funds at age 59 1/2? That's devastating for anyone in their 50's.

I thought it was 70 1/2. My retired mother is 64 and hasn't started drawing on her IRAs (or her Social Security) yet.

Time to go back to Grandma's savings method—mattress stuffing!

Why not? They've done such a great job with Social Security.

Does anyone in here have access to the McCain camp? They should be hammering on this.
Everyone I know has a 401(k) - co-workers are hearing about this and when the scheme is explained to them, they're livid.

If the socialist gets in, there will be very little financial vehicles that will not be up for tapping.

Maybe it was fate that I was making 80k a year 5 years ago, and now I take home 1300 a month, and only have a 2000 dollar buffer in the bank.

I make do, and it almost feels good that there is nothing left for any of them to take.

re: #72 loppyd

CDs and my mattress are looking better and better.

That would be "The Serta Savings Bank", I reckon.

re: #106 Intrepid

I don't know. The IRA, 401K stuff is really complicated. You'll have to ask a professional.

re: #133 jill e

Time to go back to Grandma's savings method—mattress stuffing!

coffee can buried in the back yard is starting to look attractive here

re: #115 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Really?!?! Sheesh!

They would try to weed those out, but Iran still being Iran if you had the connections weeding them out could be tough. Some of the stories were pretty scary.

re: #20 arethusa

My retirement plans are 401a's. Does anyone know the difference between those and 401k's (the internet is not being useful), and whether the 401a's are affected by this (article is not useful)?

_________________________
Explained here

re: #129 Iron Fist

Ammunition. There are few things more useless than a gun without ammunition.

Damn, no wonder none of my guns work....
Thanks for the tip!

/ ;-P

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

I have no problem believing that story. I have a friend who worked in the Magic Kingdom for a couple of years training flight crews. He said they had that particularly obnoxious combination of qualities, being ignorant and arrogant. They were basically unteachable. I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.

Wow--Just saw a Pro- Palin commercial on FOX paid for by some oustside group. Was pretty good.

This is how governments generate money. Government never makes any money...they simply take it from those that do.

Now they will tax those that do. And cut check's for those that don't.

Trickle up poverty.

OT:

20 year old Muslim Terrorist Murders 86-year Jewish Man.

re: #144 Nevergiveup

Wow--Just saw a Pro- Palin commercial on FOX paid for by some oustside group. Was pretty good.

it's about effing time then
hope more is on the way

This is surreal.

re: #22 pat

Does anyone but me think this is crazy talk?

It's freakin' insane. They have S.S. which is broke and broken. So supplement those funds with my 401(k) and let the same morons who screwed up S.S. screw up my backup plan for S.S. That's just bullshit.

re: #146 yesandno

This is how governments generate money. Government never makes any money...they simply take it from those that do.

Now they will tax those that do. And cut check's for those that don't.

Trickle up poverty.

"How to become a Third World Class Economy for Dummies"

re: #140 jcm

They would try to weed those out, but Iran still being Iran if you had the connections weeding them out could be tough. Some of the stories were pretty scary.

Assuming it still goes on, it leaves room for optimism.

/Inshallah

re: #101 Atweber

piss off as democrat--live long enough to collect your ss.

Why do you think they're so hot to manage your healthcare?

The girl who cried rape at Duke is out with a book and she is contending she was sexually abused. Now there is a book I'm running out to get?

re: #150 CommonCents

It's freakin' insane. They have S.S. which is broke and broken. So supplement those funds with my 401(k) and let the same morons who screwed up S.S. screw up my backup plan for S.S. That's just bullshit.

It is politicians. Why fix what they can keep breaking and blame on someone else?

re: #103 krycek

The doomsday clock on my 401k just got moved up. Eventually it will be seized to pay debt as Argentina is doing.

The new Kirchner administration has just been a disaster from Day 1.

re: #129 Iron Fist

Ammunition. There are few things more useless than a gun without ammunition.

Fix Bayonets!

so, being self employed
I already pay the ful 15% to SS
now they want another 5%

then I get to pay federal taxes at god knows what rate
then another 11% I believe to California

I think the Kennedy's parking their money in South Pacific islands is sounding like a good idea for me too

BY ORDER OF THE OBAMAMEISTER MEISTEROBAMA:

CITIZENS WHO PUT THEIR MONEY IN THEIR MATTRESSES WILL BE FINE 3 TIMES THE AMOUNT FOUND IN SAID MATTRESSES.

re: #85 arethusa

Found out from my dept. administrator - 401a's are controlled by the states (they're for state employees), so they should be exempt from this plan if it goes through.

And here you have the ingredients for a nice new war of envy between haves and have-nots.
Private employers have been and are closing such pension funds to all new employees here in the UK, while the government employees will stil be getting theirs.
What rankles is that their salaries/pensions are coming out of our taxes ...
First rumblings are already being herd, in a very well-mannered British way.

re: #154 Nevergiveup

She makes honest hookers look bad, doesn't she?

re: #132 arethusa

It is 70 and 1/2. At that point you have to take a minimum distribution each year or face a penalty. The distribution is determined each year by your life expectancy and the value of the funds remaining in the account. Basically, Unka is trying to make sure he gets a chance to tax it and that it doesn't go to your heirs.

Wow. The Democrats want to take everyone's 401k? Wait'll the voters hear about this. The media is just going to.... oh wait. Never mind.

re: #106 Intrepid

A person can start drawing at 59 1/2 without penalty. No requirement that you must start drawing at 59 1/2. You incur a penalty if you draw before age 59 1/2 unless it's for certain specific needs (education, or for a traditional IRA (first home purchase), or a hardship exception.

re: #132 arethusa

I thought it was 70 1/2. My retired mother is 64 and hasn't started drawing on her IRAs (or her Social Security) yet.

Cool - I have outdated info. Glad to see that it's 70 1/2. That's more in keeping with how long people are actually working and our life expectancy rates.

Gold bars buried in the basement or in your hidden wall safe and a personal firearm = real social security.

re: #106 Intrepid

But doesn't the IRA laws require that a person must start drawing on those funds at age 59 1/2? That's devastating for anyone in their 50's.

No required IRA distributions until the year you turn 70 & 1/2 (figure that one out). Voluntary withdrawals without penalty can start the year you turn 59 & 1/2. I think most 401(k) rules follow the IRA rules, with some special exceptions.

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Stalin doesn't count. He murdered his way to the head position, then bolstered the appearance of his legitimacy with staged elections.

And in any event, he was not voted in "to prove something."

Yet, I have been told in all seriousness that we have some sort of obligation to vote Obama into the Oval Office "to prove to the world we are not racist." I cannot think of any other nation that has embarked on such an absurd folly, nor can I get any explanation of why we should.

It only makes sense if you believe that America is the only country to practice race-based slavery and therefore has to somehow atone for it.

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Stalin doesn't count. He murdered his way to the head position, then bolstered the appearance of his legitimacy with staged elections.

And in any event, he was not voted in "to prove something."

Yet, I have been told in all seriousness that we have some sort of obligation to vote Obama into the Oval Office "to prove to the world we are not racist." I cannot think of any other nation that has embarked on such an absurd folly, nor can I get any explanation of why we should.

At the risk of perpetuating the myth of American arrogance, the "World" can kiss my hairy American buttocks.

re: #152 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Assuming it still goes on, it leaves room for optimism.

/Inshallah

Iran has the best chance. The Persian Culture is a war in Iran with Islamic Culture. If we can support the Persian over the Islamic Iran will be a great Nation with a great future and a good friend.

Unfortunately most of the other Islamic countries don't have the positive aspect to work with like we do in Iran.

Who is John Galt?

re: #139 FurryOldGuyJeans

Just be sure to put the money into a plastic bag and bury it upside down. I have heard on good authority that plastic coffee can lids break down and leak :)

re: #150 CommonCents

It's freakin' insane. They have S.S. which is broke and broken. So supplement those funds with my 401(k) and let the same morons who screwed up S.S. screw up my backup plan for S.S. That's just bullshit.

/I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!

I guarantee I'll cash out of my 401k if this looks like it will go ahead.

This says it all:

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered ...

re: #118 Adrenalyn

actually, he'll rename the dollar
the Obamo
kinda like the Euro

Not to far fetched. They could really screw everyone by changing the currency. Cash horders would be broke. Gold might be a smart move.

Larry Burkett from Crown Financial Ministries knew this was going to happen over 20 years ago. He said it was inevitable.

hmmm..color me a cynic, but I have wonder if dems are trying to cause a 'run' on 401K's..uhh..to collpase the system?

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Yet, I have been told in all seriousness that we have some sort of obligation to vote Obama into the Oval Office "to prove to the world we are not racist." I cannot think of any other nation that has embarked on such an absurd folly, nor can I get any explanation of why we should.

I don't think the Japanese have elected a gaijin as Prime Minister recently, but I could be mistaken

On the other hand we'll probably see a Pakistani Islamist running the Islamic Republic of Al-Britain soon, the way things are going.

re: #154 Nevergiveup

The girl who cried rape at Duke is out with a book and she is contending she was sexually abused. Now there is a book I'm running out to get?

She has to find a way to make money. She can't get a real job because her reputation is shot and she can't be a hooker because her reputation is shot.

re: #151 FurryOldGuyJeans

"How to become a Third World Class Economy for Dummies"

If we become a third wold economy, then we will be able to feel the same pain that the poor have to go through on a daily basis.

THis sort of understanding will enable us to start thinking and reacting like the rest of the third world, and we will be sensitive to those thrid world needs.

And then when will be able to petition our leaders, Islam or China or Russia, to send us food and money to help us exist.

Someday, it will be one happy world of people helping each other, hand in hand, and war will be no more.

/ha

re: #117 lawhawk

Airbus reports that it was an engine runup test, but no mention of who was on board other than 5 people were injured, three seriously enough to be hospitalized.

Oh good. No one died and I can laugh at their idiot asses.

re: #172 WitchDoctor

Just be sure to put the money into a plastic bag and bury it upside down. I have heard on good authority that plastic coffee can lids break down and leak :)

I will just reuse all the glass jars that our local recycling company refuses to recycle any more because doing so is no longer economically feasible.

re: #106 Intrepid

But doesn't the IRA laws require that a person must start drawing on those funds at age 59 1/2? That's devastating for anyone in their 50's.

No, it's the April 1st following the year you turn 70 1/2. 59 1/2 is the age at which you can start withdrawing without penalty (assuming you don't use one of the methods prescribed by IRS Notice 89-25).

re: #171 Diamond Bullet

Apparently someone who can donate money to the Obama campaign any number of times because of big time security issues with the credit card verification process. Much more here.

Hey all y'all - don't forget to Share This!

re: #181 Walter L. Newton

If we become a third wold economy, then we will be able to feel the same pain that the poor have to go through on a daily basis.

THis sort of understanding will enable us to start thinking and reacting like the rest of the third world, and we will be sensitive to those thrid world needs.

And then when will be able to petition our leaders, Islam or China or Russia, to send us food and money to help us exist.

Someday, it will be one happy world of people helping each other, hand in hand, and war will be no more.

/ha

So, the way to help the poor is tell them they need to develop understanding, and forcing them to become poorer. Gee, that's brilliant.

re: #128 Nevergiveup

And that worked out so well?

Worked out very well - for Stalin and his clique, and the whole Nomenklatura.
Ok - so a few got killed, hey, can't make an omelette without breaking eggs ...

////

re: #184 David Simon

The IRS Retirement Fund FAQ

How much must be taken out of an individual’s IRA at age 70 1/2?

Required minimum distributions apply each year beginning with the year the account owner turns age 70 1/2. The required minimum distribution for each year is calculated by dividing the IRA account balance as of December 31 of the prior year by the applicable distribution period or life expectancy. An account owner can determine his or her applicable distribution period or life expectancy by using the Tables in Appendix C of Publication 590. Table I is used by beneficiaries. Table II is for use by owners who have spouses who are both the IRA's sole beneficiary and who are more than 10 years younger than the owner. Table III is for use by all other owners.

re: #160 yma o hyd

That sounds like a recipe for disaster in the UK. I know I'm lucky to be a state employee in some ways.

Gosh... if they really need $80 Billion mebbe they could take some fiscal responsibility and freeze all earmarks (pork) instead...
/What? What do you mean by wrongthink? Reeducation camp? What's that?

re: #3 phoenixgirl

argentina just took control of the pension funds of their citizens

Yeah, and we know how well run their government is.

/not

re: #3 phoenixgirl

argentina just took control of the pension funds of their citizens

The USA could be re-named "New Argentina".

re: #188 yma o hyd

Worked out very well - for Stalin and his clique, and the whole Nomenklatura.
Ok - so a few got killed, hey, can't make an omelette without breaking eggs ...

////

And we are being told loud and clear who Obama considers to be the eggs.

This is unfuckingbelievable:

While Miller stopped short of calling for Ghilarducci’s plan at the hearing last week, he was clearly against continuing tax breaks as they currently exist.

Savings rate
“The savings rate isn’t going up for the investment of $80 billion,” he said. “We have to start to think about ... whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 billion for a policy that’s not generating what we now say it should.”

Um, Rep. Miller, apparently you don't comprehend that the savings rate would be even more pathetic if we didn't have a popular vehicle for saving. Fucking idiot.

re: #170 jcm

Iran has the best chance. The Persian Culture is a war in Iran with Islamic Culture. If we can support the Persian over the Islamic Iran will be a great Nation with a great future and a good friend.

Unfortunately most of the other Islamic countries don't have the positive aspect to work with like we do in Iran.

Though I am concerned about the Hojatieh Sect, which is particularly strong there, I agree.

This is unsurprising. Here's what we should expect as the US adopts a socialist economic system under Obama.

As the federal government concentrates more and more power into its bureaucracy, we should expect to see a drop in the efficiency of the economy, disincentives for private investment, and more political corruption. As the economy starts to wind down to a new set point, we'll see a crisis in tax revenue not just at the federal level, but at the state level. When this happens, many of the underfunded pension plans will start to go under, and be required to be nationalized. With many pensioners then getting pennies on the dollar in the pensions, there will be a lot of political pressure to shore up the system. But, since raising taxes will not suffice to fill the gap, politicians will look elsewhere for funds, like 401(k)s.

The plan linked above reminds me of the situation with socialized medicine in Canada: If I'm not mistaken, Canadian law prohibits private medicine to be practiced as it would be in direct competition with the government.

Here's another prediction: One source of funding the Left is salivating over is energy taxes. Expect a huge jump in gas and energy taxes. That's the minimalist scenario. The maximalist scenario would have the oil companies nationalized. In such a scenario, the government would hobble the oil companies with onerous taxes and regulation. As a result, there will be severe shortages of gas and heating oil, which will provide the political cover for the nationalization, with the rallying cry "Oil for the people, not for the rich!" . Of course, after that things will get worse: one need only look to Mexico's state run oil company to see how poorly nationalized oil companies are run.

re: #100 jcm

While living in Iran we knew a bunch of Boeing / McDonald Douglas and others training Iranians on equipment.

The most frustrating thing for all of them was "Inshallah" (If Allah wills it). The Iranians would literally skip safety checks and other critical items. The thinking being that crashing or a successful flight is if Inshallah.

That combined with flat-out ignorance can be lethal. An old friend was a maintenance instructor in Iran when the Shah bought F-14s. He has a lot of horror stories that go like this:

"So I tell 'em, every friggin day: the first thing you do when the aircraft comes back and the pilot opens the canopy PUT THE SAFETY PINS IN THE SEATS! And before you do ANYTHING to get into the cockpit CHECK TO MAKE SURE THE PINS ARE IN THE SEATS. And whatever you do, whenever you're working in or around the cockpit NEVER TOUCH THE FACE CURTAIN OR EJECT HANDLES! So what does this idiot do? He walks up on the platform, DOESN'T CHECK the safety pins, swings one foot over onto the seat, GRABS THE FACE CURTAIN, pulls himself up onto the seat, and WHOOSH! He gets shot 200 feet into the air while standing on top of the seat."

First world technology and third world ignorance is an accident waiting to happen.

re: #193 rawmuse

The USA could be re-named "New Argentina".

can you hear it now........."our friends in argentina have done this same exact thing. we have reviewed their model and made some very small adjustments......"

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me.

With a lot of money already leaving mutual funds, removing the incentive to save thru 401(k)s will just make more people head for the door. This is one place where tax policy works to promote good habits, and the spend-crazy dems just see it as another revenue source.

re: #196 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Though I am concerned about the Hojatieh Sect, which is particularly strong there, I agree.

I'm more concerned about the Martini sect we have in our neighborhood. Its very strong here.

re: #53 buzzsawmonkey

Just by the way, can anyone tell me of any nation, anywhere in the world, that has elected a leader from a minority ethnicity merely to "prove something to the world?"

Anyone? Anywhere?

Yet I have had seemingly sentient people explain to me seriously that it is incumbent upon the United States, for some reason, to do this next month.

I do not recall a "minority" leader being elected by South Africa once majority rule was enacted in order to prove that the ANC was not racist.

I do not recall any European nation electing a minority leader for the purpose of proving that its people were not racist.

Can anyone give me an example of this ever having been done in modern history?

Alberto K. Fujimori of Peru?

We stopped contributing to our 401K two weeks ago. We decided we would wait and see who wins before we decide to start it back up again. We're just sticking it in a savings for now. Kind of sucks because my husband's employer matches up to 6%. But at least this way we have some control.

re: #108 johnnyreb

Thats what me and the wife will do. If this even hits the floor for a vote, we are out of there so fast all they will see is dust.

I'd expect currently existing 401(k)'s would be grandfathered, but new contributions would be frozen. I wouldn't worry too much about a 401(k), or an IRA, that you already have. However, keep reading.

What I suspect Congress might do is to make Social Security means tested. That is, if you have income from other sources, like withdrawals from your IRA, 401(k), traditional company pension, or savings and investments, then your Social Security would be reduced according to some complex formula, until you receive no Social Security above a certain income threshold. That's the way Social Security benefits are currently taxed (income tax), for "higher income" seniors. Higher income being around $24k for single and $40k +/- for a couple. (These thresholds are NOT indexed for inflation.) And guess what? That's money you already paid income tax on when you earned it and forked it over to the Social Security system. Can you say "double taxation"? I knew you could.

re: #189 lawhawk

The IRS Retirement Fund FAQ

The first required distribution can be deferred until April 1st of the following year:

You must start receiving distributions by April 1 of the year following the year in which you reach age 70½. See When Must You Withdraw Assets? (Required Minimum Distributions), later.

[Link: 74.125.95.104...]

re: #193 rawmuse

The USA could be re-named "New Argentina".

With the Kelo decision as precedent.

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Stalin doesn't count. He murdered his way to the head position, then bolstered the appearance of his legitimacy with staged elections.

And in any event, he was not voted in "to prove something."

Yet, I have been told in all seriousness that we have some sort of obligation to vote Obama into the Oval Office "to prove to the world we are not racist." I cannot think of any other nation that has embarked on such an absurd folly, nor can I get any explanation of why we should.

I admit that Stalin remark was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

Agree with what you say, and it is interesting to note how so many people have accepted that they must be racist because they're white, and that they must be especially bad racists because they're Americans.

Odd, isn't it, that no-one bothers accusing the Chinese of racism: they have no problems suppressing their ethnic minorities, And obviously, numerically there are more Chinese than Americans. Also - what about the Japanese and the way they treated all those people they overran in WWII? That also was racism pure and simple.
Does it only count if its perceived to be against Black Americans?

re: #204 spypeach

We stopped contributing to our 401K two weeks ago. We decided we would wait and see who wins before we decide to start it back up again. We're just sticking it in a savings for now. Kind of sucks because my husband's employer matches up to 6%. But at least this way we have some control.

With the government taking control of the banks and soon seizing 401(k)s, the rush for off-shore accounts will sky-rocket.

re: #207 arethusa

With the Kelo decision as precedent.

Webster's New American Post-Obama Dictionary cites 'private property' as an old code word for racism.

Now that Jindal has been outed as a creationist, are there any under-50 Republicans on the team bench that can step up and save the party while it's still in the league (besides Palin)?

re: #198 CIA Reject

One story we heard was Iran Air 747 from a Boeing guy. They flying along and a fairly serious inflight emergency occurred. The flight crew that it was Allah's will they crash and sat there. The Boeing instructor did enough yelling and screaming to get them to run the checklist and the problem was solved....

The New American Dream: The Government letting you join The Party so you too can be a low-level petty bureaucratic elite.

Hey the just want spread the wealth misery.

re: #202 Maximu§

I'm more concerned about the Martini sect we have in our neighborhood. Its very strong here.

The Martini will always be at war with the Bourbons and the Scotch.

re: #32 Wyatt Earp

The wooden nail kegs look best on me.

They will have control over your birth into this world.
They decide how you are primarily educated with your own tax dollars.
They decide what the best healthcare will be for you.
They will hold the note to your house.
They will back the bank they have ownership of, when writing the check for the mortgage they own.
They will lend you your money to go the colleges their colleagues have dominion over, and you will pay this back with interest.
They will sway how you are able to save for retirement.
For an extra measure, after living this great life given to you by them, they will tax you again upon your departure.

re: #204 spypeach

Smart move!

re: #23 Maximu§

OT

Arab Flight Crew

They ran their new jet pretty much like they run their countries.

The blast fence looks fine. The plane? Not so much.

401(k)'s are pretty much a middle class / upper middle class phenomenon, as the amount a worker can contribute is capped at around $10k. If the deductibility of 401(k) contributions is taken away, it will be a huge tax increase for much of the middle class.

Good Lord, I can't believe they're even considering this insanity. OTOH, if only the news gets out, maybe all the idiots who live in my Congressional district will stop re-electing that a$$ George Miller (fat chance). I am so hoping the re-districting proposition on my ballot goes through so I have a chance at getting a decent representative.!

Of course by then I will be poor, because we don't have any kids and our 401(K)s are the only tax break we get. Make that 101(K)s -- I just had to turn off my contributions and got a look at my current balance.

re: #221 Son of the Black Dog

401(k)'s are pretty much a middle class / upper middle class phenomenon, as the amount a worker can contribute is capped at around $10k. If the deductibility of 401(k) contributions is taken away, it will be a huge tax increase for much of the middle class.

Not if you pull out of 401k. That's the trick, take away the governments opportunity for taxes and it will get the message. Lots of luck getting all the people to go along though.

Of course! Everyone should be poor, and all nations should strive to attain third world standards for the good of the Earth! The poor citizens of the third world use fewer resources than greedy and gluttonous Americans, thus preventing environmental destruction and global warming. The poor are spiritually "pure" in comparison to the corrupt imperialist and racist Westerners, while worshiping their ancestors and working for their egalitarian communities rather than for their own material comfort and self-indulgence.

Equality through impoverishment for the entire world will reduce carbon emissions, reduce the human population, and unite humankind in mutual love and respect!

/Nutso academic global Socialist mode off

re: #187 gmsc

So, the way to help the poor is tell them they need to develop understanding, and forcing them to become poorer. Gee, that's brilliant.

re: #221 Son of the Black Dog

401(k)'s are pretty much a middle class / upper middle class phenomenon, as the amount a worker can contribute is capped at around $10k.

Do you have a link that supports that? (I'm not doubting that it's true, I've just never seen any data.)

BTW, for 2008, the cap is $15,500 if you're under 50.

re: #223 HDrepub

Not if you pull out of 401k. That's the trick, take away the governments opportunity for taxes and it will get the message. Lots of luck getting all the people to go along though.

I'm not following you. If you don't make a 401(k) contribution (opting for salary instead), the government taxes you.

This is a fucking outrage.

If you want to start assigning blame, I just posted this in links. Congress is surely to blame, but look at the Greenspan legacy:
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

This will kill 401(k)'s. People contribute for the tax breaks. Plus, some companies have stopped pension plans in favor of 401(k)'s for their employees.
Which will leave people at the mercy of what the government deems "fair" when and if they can retire.

re: #203 filetandrelease

Alberto K. Fujimori of Peru?

Worked out good for him though! NOT. He fled to Japan for asylum.

He still alive?

re: #230 Intrepid

Worked out good for him though! NOT. He fled to Japan for asylum.

He still alive?

True, but I was curious if he met Buzzmonkeys criteria.

Change.....any one have any spare change?

Not very surprising to me when I saw the names of the 2 prominent Dems attached to this atrocity;

As the U.S. prepared for war in October 2002, Washington state's Jim McDermott flew to Iraq on a Saddam-praising junket with fellow Democrats Mike Thompson of California and David Bonior of Michigan. Rather than support the U.S., they condemned U.N. sanctions, vouched for Saddam's probity and publicly declared America's democratically elected president a liar.

So was another trip taken to the Andes last year by another Democratic threesome — Reps. Bill Delahunt and James McGovern of Massachusetts and George Miller of California. With at least two of them in hock to Venezuela's Hugo Chavez for supplying cheap heating oil to their districts, the trio decided to meddle in Colombia, a democracy Chavez seeks to overthrow.

Saddam and the 3 Stooges, from Investor's Business Daily

re: #232 Wags

You didn't really just say "CHANGE", did you?

I admire all the people here who find words day after day for the constant flow of totalitarian ideas pouring out of the Democratic Party. I am rendered speechless.

Here is Virginia, the McCain campaign has started running radio ads bashing Obama's health care plan and tying it and Obama to "Congressional Liberals". I think this 401K Plan would be the logical follow-on ad, as long as Obama supports this idiocy.

re: #217 formercorpsman

They will have control over your birth into this world.
They decide how you are primarily educated with your own tax dollars.
They decide what the best healthcare will be for you.
They will hold the note to your house.
They will back the bank they have ownership of, when writing the check for the mortgage they own.
They will lend you your money to go the colleges their colleagues have dominion over, and you will pay this back with interest.
They will sway how you are able to save for retirement.
For an extra measure, after living this great life given to you by them, they will tax you again upon your departure.

Now that the Democrats have taken aim at private retirement plans (401k is just the start, you can bet on it), they intend to do away with anything they don't control. I guess it's only fair that no one has any sort of retirement other than Social Security.

I really am now forced to believe
that the Democrats want to
Either Totally destroy our country or
Want to FORCE ALL americans
into the OBAMA RE-EDUCATION CAMPS

I am serious
this looks like the beginning of the end here
the democrats have completly turned into
Communists and the democrat party is now the new
USA COMMUNIST PARTY

I wonder should we all begin to call the senate and house of representatives
The SOVIET parliment with
COMRAD PELOZI
COMRAD FRANKS
COMRAD KENNEDY
COMRAD WAXMAN
In charge..

They have completly SOLD out to the SOVIETS.
they are TRAITORS
ALL OF THEM.
ALL POLITICIANS

I think that we may be headed twards a civil war.
God help us all.

re: #229 Hobbes

This will kill 401(k)'s. People contribute for the tax breaks. Plus, some most companies have stopped pension plans in favor of 401(k)'s for their employees.

There, thought I'd fix that for ya. 401(k)'s are probably the only way working people can save, unless they have equity in real estate (often using those same 401(k)'s to purchase that equity).

But let's not forget Lucent Technlogies, where the 401(k)'s were Lucent stock. We know how well that worked.

Holy Sh*t, they're not even trying to hide their socialistic tendencies anymore. Now it's just "give us your money, NOW!"

Can we throw the bums out? Plz?

My God.

They want to eliminate retirement accounts, then force you to invest the money in government bonds. That way, people near retirement will be EVEN MORE INVESTED IN TAXING OTHERS. The move accomplishes two things:

a) It gives more money to the present congress to spend on social programs.

b) It benefits the Democratic Party in the future by making people more dependent on government benefits; that is, in taxes levied on others.

That's actually evil.

re: #237 Spiny Norman

And since the politicians will own everything, and politics is easy compared to real work or ability applied, more and more talentless people will work in government to make their fortunes off the rest of us.

The future becomes the past. The United States becomes Europe. Europe becomes the Middle East.

re: #127 gmsc

News of the Future: "Earlier today, there was a terrorist attack on Washington D.C.. Terrorists flew a plane directly into Capitol Hill while Congress was in session. Already, we're seeing footage of people celebrating by dancing in the streets of Palestine, as well as much of the United States."

If terrorists really wanted to do damage to this country, the LAST place they'd attack would be a Democratic controlled Congress

nothin' from nuthin' leaves nuthin'

Natural State and local agency employees are exempt from this garbage in their 401a's and 403b's. Privately employed people get the screw over once again.

McCain should be all over this like ants on sugar but he's still a deer in the headlights. Great.

Great article on gatewaypundit about Obama being a member of a quasi-marxist group while he was Illinois state senator back in 1996 ~ [Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

re: #33 maddogg

You wanna know whats crazy? We are on the verge of tossing the America we know into the trash heap of history so's we can join the Euroweenies in perpetual stagnation in pursuit of third worldliness.

look at it this way, at least it will finally put an end to self-loathing white guilt that's seems to aflict half the electorate. there won't be anything left for them to hate themselves or feel guilty about for owning.

They're coming to take my 401K, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa
To the Obama farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be
happy to see those nice clean, articulate men in the bread line and they're coming to take my 401K, ha-haaa!

The Obamunist National Anthem?

I try not to give myself over to hyperbole but the republic may be doomed.

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration.

Isn't there a word to describe an "investment" required by the govt? Oh yeah. It's called a fucking tax. Another one?!?

When the majority can keep taxing a minority because they pay no taxes or pay such little taxes that they receive more services than what they pay, then you're going to have less people taking the risk of opening businesses.

All of life can be boiled down to risk/reward. If the risk of opening a business is losing a lot of money, and the reward is making money but you get to keep less and less due to our elected officials "spreading your wealth" and your upside (reward) is a lifestlye barely better than those on the govt dole then guess what? Less people are going to take risk. Ingenuity and job creation will stagnate and the country will lose it's superpower status.

I'll be OK. I just worry about my kids and their kids...

re: #42 Killgore Trout

You might be able to convert your 401K in a Roth IRA. I think it's called a Rollover IRA. You can ask a broker about it. The article doesn't say IRA's are included and once politicians notice the loophole they'll close it.

You can't roll your (pre-tax) 401k over into a Roth IRA without paying income tax on the whole current balance; you'd have to put it into a standard IRA.

With a Roth IRA, you are investing post-tax dollars (with the advantage that you will not pay income tax on any gains the account makes thereafter).

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Vote Democratic. Because you're too stupid to now whats good for you.

Bloody peasants.

That's exactly what they think.

re: #221 Son of the Black Dog

401(k)'s are pretty much a middle class / upper middle class phenomenon, as the amount a worker can contribute is capped at around $10k. If the deductibility of 401(k) contributions is taken away, it will be a huge tax increase for much of the middle class.

It's even worse than it looks at first glance - because they're talking about taking away, not just your tax break, but also the tax breaks your employer gets for providing you with matching funds. So no more matching funds.

As a measure of how bad things really are and how serious I am that they are going to get a lot worse, I am now on day 5 with no tobacco. I am a 25 year addict who often sleeps with a dip of Copenhagen and smoked hand rolled cigarettes. I have my first grandchild coming and we will need the money.

No gum, no patches, no lozenges, no hypnosis, no nothing. Just quit.

I guess these potato heads have considered the market implications of SELLING all the assets in the 401Ks?(I mean if I read this correctly) I can see it now --Oct. 20 2009 "Today the Dow closed up for the first time in 200 days - it added .30 to 11.32". I swear ,every time I think thee guys cant get ANY more freakin retarded.

I have a better idea. I'm gonna start investing 5% of my pay into guns and ammo.

Tell us now oh oracle-in-residence Warren Buffet, you big Donk Windbag what to invest in now? Have your Democrat buddies knock it off.

re: #252 lurking faith

It's even worse than it looks at first glance - because they're talking about taking away, not just your tax break, but also the tax breaks your employer gets for providing you with matching funds. So no more matching funds.

Dude, if you pay into this system it means you are working and doing it for an evil EVIL capitalist corporation hell-bent on making those DISGUSTING profits...why should you get any break or any money you didnt earn? That money should go to the people truly trying to do something with their lives...like going to school to learn how evil America use to be before the Messiah , or spending all day workin the joystick to reach the high score on Grand Theft Auto IV. (sarcasm off)

Did you eversee that vid called "Burning down the House"
might be on You tube still. It was over at Red State.
[Link: www.redstate.com...]
It said the the Goldman Sachs had some guy as a bundler and thru this bundler, GoldmanSachs donated $1.250,000.
to Obama.
Ithink this is significant. Not becasue it is crooked. I don't know about bundling, tho I have heard of it.No it is because it is a confict,iirc. Henry Paulson came from GS and Neil KashnCarry the 2nd in command at GS
and there are others high up in the Treas. so these are the peeeps that runthing for the bailout and Oby is beholden to them for 1 1/4 million?
I didn't see this anywhere else...

Here's the money quote:

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”

These people consider it a subsidy if you are forced to turn over less of your earnings to the government. These people think they own our earnings and that anything they let us keep is a gift or a subsidy. Unbelievable!

"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." --Milton Friedman

re: #252 lurking faith

It's even worse than it looks at first glance - because they're talking about taking away, not just your tax break, but also the tax breaks your employer gets for providing you with matching funds. So no more matching funds.

Anybody who does budgets for proposals knows that you calculate the cost of the person proposed to do the work including ALL of these expenses. They are attached to you as part of your cost in budgeting. So there is no gift of matching or separate tax breaks... they calculate all of it as relates to your rate. This whole thing sounds like a public works program to create jobs for bureaucrats while we switch over to whatever they decide is the new system. Everything is computerized and audited, so there is less for them to do these days.

The worst part will be to have the govt rather than a private fund managing the big fund because it will be another shake down train robbery like all this mortgage stuff.

Also, once the govt people get their hands on our non-social security retirement savings, what's to say they won't take it away through taxes and give it to someone else... for fairness, you know.

Going after 401Ks sounds like a non-starter to me. Even the 20-somethings can figure out that socking away pretax dollars and letting it accumulate tax free is a significant benefit. McCain should start hitting this right away as a real danger of one party rule.

re: #225 David Simon

Do you have a link that supports that? (I'm not doubting that it's true, I've just never seen any data.)

BTW, for 2008, the cap is $15,500 if you're under 50.

It's less than that if you are a "highly compensated employee" enrolled in company that has a "top heavy" fund. The cap for me was $9,000 this year.