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Creation Scientists Display Fabulous Find - Update: The Discovery Institute's Next Scheme

Science | Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:04:30 pm PDT

Ever wonder what goes on at a creationist convention? Here’s a look at a recent convention featuring two of the most well-known creationist groups, Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research: Petrified Human Brain.

Note: this isn’t just any old petrified human brain. It’s a fossil of irreducibly complex organ! Take that, Darwinian evolutionists!

Science!

UPDATE at 10/25/08 3:25:54 pm:

And in a related subject: Creationists declare war over the brain.

No, they don’t mean the petrified human brain. The Discovery Institute’s next plot is to hijack neuroscience, in their ceaseless attempts to debase science education in the US.

“YOU cannot overestimate,” thundered psychiatrist Jeffrey Schwartz, “how threatened the scientific establishment is by the fact that it now looks like the materialist paradigm is genuinely breaking down. You’re gonna hear a lot in the next calendar year about... how Darwin’s explanation of how human intelligence arose is the only scientific way of doing it... I’m asking us as a world community to go out there and tell the scientific establishment, enough is enough! Materialism needs to start fading away and non-materialist causation needs to be understood as part of natural reality.”

His enthusiasm was met with much applause from the audience gathered at the UN’s east Manhattan conference hall on 11 September for an international symposium called Beyond the Mind-Body Problem: New Paradigms in the Science of Consciousness. Earlier Mario Beauregard, a researcher in neuroscience at the University of Montreal, Canada, and co-author of The Spiritual Brain: A neuroscientist’s case for the existence of the soul, told the audience that the “battle” between “maverick” scientists like himself and those who “believe the mind is what the brain does” is a “cultural war”.

Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing “non-material neuroscience” movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul. The two have signed the “Scientific dissent from Darwinism” petition, spearheaded by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, headquarters of the intelligent design movement. ID argues that biological life is too complex to have arisen through evolution.

In August, the Discovery Institute ran its 2008 Insider’s Briefing on Intelligent Design, at which Schwartz and Michael Egnor, a neurosurgeon at Stony Brook University in New York, were invited to speak. When two of the five main speakers at an ID meeting are neuroscientists, something is up. Could the next battleground in the ID movement’s war on science be the brain?

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1166 comments

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1 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:05:32pm

another human footprint covered by a dino?
/

2 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:05:37pm

They found my ex-husband?

3 snowcrash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:07:37pm

re: #1 Outrider
Nope, genuine petrified human brain LOL

4 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:07:57pm

If a tree fell in a petrified forest ...

5 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:08:30pm
Dr. Scripture took this image while at the Chattanooga Choo Choo. This area is still unexplained. It gives the appearance of bleeding when rehydrated with just water. Better closeup images on the "Blood Supply" page.

It has been looked at many times and everytime, it appears bloody when wet. It is proven to not magnify, but actually swell, and stay that way for a couple of days, yet is very hard, like cryptocrystalline silica.

Dr. Suzanne Vincent confirmed the possibility of this being petrified blood.


Oh my. Is she a real doctor or does she have a Doctorate in Stupid?

6 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:08:41pm
The following pages are intended for scientific research and evaluation of a soft tissue fossil, which is a human petrified brain.

/what's wrong with this sentence?

7 Islamophobic Warmongering Infidel  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:09:11pm

re: #2 MandyManners

They found my ex-husband?

No silly.....it was my ex wife.

8 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:09:38pm
Dr. Scripture took this image while at the Chattanooga Choo Choo. This area is still unexplained. It gives the appearance of bleeding when rehydrated with just water. Better closeup images on the "Blood Supply" page.

It has been looked at many times and everytime, it appears bloody when wet. It is proven to not magnify, but actually swell, and stay that way for a couple of days, yet is very hard, like cryptocrystalline silica.

Dr. Suzanne Vincent confirmed the possibility of this being petrified blood.


Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

9 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:02pm

re: #5 Outrider

Heh, I noticed the same thing.

10 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:14pm

A mind is a terrible thing to waste

(so hold on to it for a while )

11 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:25pm

Has ACORN registered it to vote yet?

12 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:26pm
13 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:11:00pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!


and it bleeds! And just in time for Halloween!

14 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:01pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

But it's an irreducibly complex rock!

15 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:01pm

re: #10 Shug

A mind is a terrible thing to waste

(so hold on to it for a while )

Like....6,000 years is it? Can something petrify in the time they say humans have been here?

16 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:51pm

Who has the paper and scisssors?

17 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:55pm
18 guzziguy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:13:02pm

Okay, I scanned the linked page and thought that's a pretty interesting rock, until I saw the close-up. Uhh, no. I don't think so. Pretty standard, if oddly shaped piece of silica based rock it would seem to me.

19 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:13:48pm

re: #14 Charles

But it's an irreducibly complex rock!

They all are. Well except for granite. And we all know granites are very simple minded.
/channeling Gary Larsen

20 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:14:17pm

re: #5 Outrider

Oh my. Is she a real doctor or does she have a Doctorate in Stupid?

She's a "neuro anatomy professor" at Oral Roberts University.

21 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:14:20pm
22 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:14:42pm

re: #17 taxfreekiller

No one should turn their eyes from the crime the Democrats now use to put this full raging commie into office.

Your freedom is being cut from your body as you sleep.

Wake up and fight back, without freedom nothing matters.

By the same people that are farming kidneys as people sleep in hotel rooms after getting drunk with hookers in foreign cities?

/sorry.

23 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:07pm

I can't find a link to data on WHERE this thing was found.
Has anyone else found such a page?

24 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:07pm

Constipated Dinosaur Chip ?

25 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:11pm

re: #20 Charles

She's a "neuro anatomy professor" at Oral Roberts University.


oh Great, here we go again.....

26 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:29pm
27 cargocultist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:31pm
28 Colonel Panik  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:11pm

IDana Jones and the Petrified Brain.

29 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:20pm

Color me confused but in all the verbiage on that webpage (which is so horribly designed as to look like it was laid-out by a microencephalic gibbon monkey with cataracts) give not a hint as to where this "marvel" was found or any other scientifically verifiable tidbit of information on the "brain". The entire blather sounds like a very bad sermon.

30 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:30pm

I would love to put that on the front porch with a candle in it!

31 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:31pm

re: #20 Charles

She's a "neuro anatomy professor" at Oral Roberts University.

Now my brain hurts after reading this

Neuroanatomy is the science for localizing function in the human brain. Imaging and experimental research provide the neuroscientist and clinician with the means to elucidate regions that act to produce different neurological and cognitive effects. Our functional neuroanatomical understanding is furthered through the study of the effects of lesions and pathological changes in brain structure that alter brain function. Our understanding of nervous system anatomical localization can be described at the level of neural circuitry with high resolution.

32 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:17:14pm

Worlds largest dung beetle Casa ?

33 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:17:46pm

Oral Roberts Profs
Like their brains petrified
Easier to fool

34 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:17:59pm

re: #29 FurryOldGuyJeans

Color me confused but in all the verbiage on that webpage (which is so horribly designed as to look like it was laid-out by a microencephalic gibbon monkey with cataracts) give not a hint as to where this "marvel" was found or any other scientifically verifiable tidbit of information on the "brain". The entire blather sounds like a very bad sermon.

That was a rather horribly laid out web page wasn't it? Represents muddled thought.

35 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:04pm

re: #16 MandyManners

Who has the paper and scisssors?

BAWAHAHAHA! I can't stop laughing....thanks, Mandy. :)

36 Tamron  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:34pm

re: #3 snowcrash

Nope, genuine petrified human brain LOL


What's so unique about that?
.

37 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:54pm

re: #29 FurryOldGuyJeans

Color me confused but in all the verbiage on that webpage (which is so horribly designed as to look like it was laid-out by a microencephalic gibbon monkey with cataracts) give not a hint as to where this "marvel" was found or any other scientifically verifiable tidbit of information on the "brain". The entire blather sounds like a very bad sermon.

From No. 28: The bizarre rock, owned by Larry and Debbie Skelf, was just a sentimental token until about two years ago when research began on it.
“It was given to my mother, Eddie Mae Hodge, by uncle Luther Hodge, in Tullahoma Tennessee, forty years ago. Since mom passed away in 1986, I just called it my pretty brain rock. Since then, we often used it as part of different ornamentations” Debbie states.

38 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:55pm

re: #33 Shug

Oral Roberts Profs
Like their brains petrified
Easier to fool


Haiku take two


Oral Roberts Profs
They like their brains petrified
Easier to fool

39 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:04pm

Hot the hell does a brain get petrified?

never mind--

40 guzziguy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:21pm

re: #36 Tamron

What's so unique about that?
.

It's voted democrat in every election since it became an adult.

41 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:34pm

Didn't their moms teach them not to play with things from the toilet ?

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:50pm

re: #37 MandyManners

From No. 28: The bizarre rock, owned by Larry and Debbie Skelf, was just a sentimental token until about two years ago when research began on it.
“It was given to my mother, Eddie Mae Hodge, by uncle Luther Hodge, in Tullahoma Tennessee, forty years ago. Since mom passed away in 1986, I just called it my pretty brain rock. Since then, we often used it as part of different ornamentations” Debbie states.

Is that the ONLY info regarding its history?

43 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:51pm

Sorry. It just looks like a big-as*ed Geode to me.

i say pop that baby open and see if there is any liquid in there.

44 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:56pm

re: #39 ibmkeyboard

Hot the hell does a brain get petrified?

never mind--

Well, I've been stoned.

45 Tamron  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:01pm

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

If a tree fell in a petrified forest ...


If a petrified brain fell from a tree in a petrified forest, would there be any dinosaurs around to hear it plop?
.

46 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:02pm

how, how,
shit

47 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:08pm

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain

Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing "non-material neuroscience" movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul. The two have signed the "Scientific dissent from Darwinism" petition, spearheaded by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, headquarters of the intelligent design movement. ID argues that biological life is too complex to have arisen through evolution.

48 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:13pm

re: #42 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Is that the ONLY info regarding its history?

Beats me.

49 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:35pm

re: #31 Outrider

MRI the hell outta that rock.

50 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:00pm

re: #44 MandyManners

Well, I've been stoned.

no wonder the wife says I have rocks in my head?

YO

51 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:09pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain


Why are they trying to shove science into the soul?

52 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:15pm

re: #49 debutaunt

MRI the hell outta that rock.

Is that even possible? I honestly don't know.

53 notutopia  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:20pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

BAWAHAHAHA! fell out of my chair too on this one!

54 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:45pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

Others have a rock and think it's god...

55 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:51pm
56 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:52pm

re: #45 Tamron

If a petrified brain fell from a tree in a petrified forest, would there be any dinosaurs around to hear it plop?
.

ha

57 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:14pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain

Uh, sorry...No brain, no mind.

58 snowcrash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:23pm

re: #27 cargocultist
Good link. Cargo cult science and you, a cargo cultist.

59 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:23pm

The language on that site make my head hurt.

"Empirical, unbiased science requires the acceptance of reality in admission that speculation no longer exists."

Well that settles it, I guess.

60 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:24pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain

How did you know I was reading that article? Seems like a perfect one for an update.

61 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:40pm

re: #54 experiencedtraveller

Others have a rock and think it's god...

Excellent.

62 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:05pm

re: #51 MandyManners

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

63 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:19pm

re: #34 Outrider

That was a rather horribly laid out web page wasn't it? Represents muddled thought.

Muddled would have been done with Frontpage. This was done with crayons and a 20 pound sledge.

I am used to webpages looking less than stellar in Firefox (2.0.0.17), but this page actually looks worse when viewed in IE. Now THAT takes some serious layout design disconnect.

64 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:38pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Beats me.

Huh.
I call total, utter and absolute bullshit ON THESE PEOPLE'S MOTIVES.

/the only interesting part is that something's FINALLY beating on Mandy.
*running like hell*

65 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:48pm

re: #49 debutaunt

MRI the hell outta that rock.

You will only find undigested seeds and nuts.

66 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:06pm

re: #60 Charles

How did you know I was reading that article? Seems like a perfect one for an update.

these frigging people have rocks in their heads.

67 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:12pm

re: #54 experiencedtraveller

For Those About To Rock

68 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:33pm

re: #31 Outrider

Neuroanatomy is the science for localizing function in the human brain. Imaging and experimental research provide the neuroscientist and clinician with the means to elucidate regions that act to produce different neurological and cognitive effects. Our functional neuroanatomical understanding is furthered through the study of the effects of lesions and pathological changes in brain structure that alter brain function. Our understanding of nervous system anatomical localization can be described at the level of neural circuitry with high resolution.

The Holy Grail of brain research. Whoever finally gets it will be famous.

/graduate level in experimental psychology

69 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:54pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

Wow. What is this guy? Does he make any sense to you?

70 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:58pm

re: #60 Charles

Heh, I put it in the spinoffs a few days ago. It's been in circulation this week.

71 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:25:09pm

re: #65 ted

You will only find undigested seeds and nuts.

hahahhahaahhahaahahaha

72 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:25:22pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

That is some serious crazy.

73 Barking Pumpkin  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:25:32pm

These people have rocks in their heads.

74 pat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:09pm

Wonder if Harry Reid knows they have found his brain?

75 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:34pm

re: #69 Outrider

NO God mentality can Know my 4 Day Cube.
No Bible Word equals my TimeCubed Earth.
How Stupid - Pay to worship Queer as a God.
Mom and Dad created you as a Trinity, the
Mirror of opposite brain meld into "We" Ego.
Your body is of their Creation, honor "We".

Dr. Gene Ray, Cubic and King of Genius.


What part don't you understand?

76 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:34pm

re: #60 Charles

How did you know I was reading that article? Seems like a perfect one for an update.

I'd like to suggest a title for the update -- "immaterial neuro-seance".

77 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:54pm

re: #37 MandyManners

From No. 28: The bizarre rock, owned by Larry and Debbie Skelf, was just a sentimental token until about two years ago when research began on it.
“It was given to my mother, Eddie Mae Hodge, by uncle Luther Hodge, in Tullahoma Tennessee, forty years ago. Since mom passed away in 1986, I just called it my pretty brain rock. Since then, we often used it as part of different ornamentations” Debbie states.

The layout of the page was so horrible that my eyes started to abandon ship. Thanks for the nudge, Mandy.

Ahhh, so there is no chain of custody on the thing, so really there is no verifiable way to analyze the fool thing except through the scientific auspices of Creationism. I am not surprised.

78 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:03pm
79 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:33pm

re: #61 Outrider

Excellent.

re: #74 pat

Wonder if Harry Reid knows they have found his brain?

John Murtha?

80 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:49pm

re: #79 ibmkeyboard

John Murtha?

Joe Plugs

81 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:56pm

If that's supposed to be a brain, human or otherwise, I'm not seeing a lot of the structures I should be. I'm seeing no lobal distinction, no Fissure of Rolando, no longitudinal fissure (what separates the brain into right and left hemispheres), no stem, no medullar mass.....

Oh the h**l with it. It's a rock. Period.

/BTW, I'm going by the 1974 Running Press edition of Gray's Anatomy, here. (pp. 639-658.)

If this is what they think a "modern" brain looks like, they obviously flunked Anatomy- if, indeed, they ever actually took it.

cheers

eon

82 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:28:34pm

re: #39 ibmkeyboard

Hot the hell does a brain get petrified?

never mind--

For a start, vote obama ...

83 calvinista  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:26pm

I looked at the link. Wow, that sure proves, well, I'm not sure what.

84 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:28pm

Good thing there weren't any petrified zombies at that conference.

85 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:41pm

Mmmm, they could have at least run the spellchecker before publishing this farfetched stuff. The scan comparisons are an outright embarrassment.
I note by the way that neither AiG nor ICR endorses this claim.

86 Jimash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:43pm

Well, that's a few minutes I will not get back.
I'm not sure whether it is more stupid or disgusting.
I mean, it bleeds. feh.

87 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:54pm

Even if it IS a brain ... WTF does it PROVE?

These people are masturbating their egos.

88 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:30:09pm

re: #83 calvinista

I looked at the link. Wow, that sure proves, well, I'm not sure what.

Some people should not be allowed within 20 feet of a computer, especially if it has an internet connection?

89 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:30:47pm

Ok, this is satire. Right? Seriously. It can't be for real.

90 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:30:53pm

re: #85 ebed_melech

Mmmm, they could have at least run the spellchecker before publishing this farfetched stuff. The scan comparisons are an outright embarrassment.
I note by the way that neither AiG nor ICR endorses this claim.

No, they just endorse all sorts of other ludicrous claims.

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:06pm

Aw Geez....

(did that sound like Archie Bunker? That's what I intended for it to sound like.)

92 Macker  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:13pm

re: #2 MandyManners

They found my ex-husband?

No, they found my ex-wife!

93 freeus  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:32pm

re: #2 MandyManners

LMAO! Well, if it was not yours, it HAS to be mine! I scared the cat howling with laughter on this one! Thanks for the laugh!

94 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:38pm

re: #87 pre-Boomer Marine brat

"The scientific community has begun to realize the boundaries for circumstancial evidence have been breached."

Game over, man!

95 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:48pm

re: #90 Charles

No, they just endorse all sorts of other ludicrous claims.

Gotta love that Ol' Time Religion thinking.

/// 7th century religious thinking, that is.

96 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:32:32pm
97 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:33:37pm
Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing “non-material neuroscience” movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul.


as I read this I am imagining the pot smoking scene from Animal House

98 ssawtell  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:33:47pm

oh man, that is priceless.
"Dr. Shipley, 'It is scientifically impossible for this to not be a brain.'"
where do these people come from?

99 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:33:53pm
100 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:03pm

At least this bleeding petrified "brain" shows more sense than the dimwits captivated by this crustal matter.

101 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:10pm

re: #94 jaunte

"The scientific community has begun to realize the boundaries for circumstancial evidence have been breached."

Yes, this is definitely a ... cough ... breach event.

102 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:22pm

Wow! That is so cool, someone found Joe Biden's brain!

103 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:32pm

re: #11 abolitionist

Has ACORN registered it to vote yet?

No, but it did make a several donations to the Obama campaign!

104 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:52pm

re: #55 taxfreekiller

Democrats are now within the grasp of true evil.

Days away, only days away from a true evil man and forces of great evil gaining control over all aspects of your lives.

There it is, right before you now, you can not deny it, your hearts know it, hell the stock market is running for its very life knowing the possibility is there, any one with half a brain and survival instincts knows what is next.

What will you do America?

I'm learning how to make a "hobo stove" out of an Altoids Curiously Fruity Candy tin, some fiberglass insulation, and a wire clothes hanger, plus a finishing nail, tack hammer, and a bottle of either denatured alcohol or Everclear. (The booze, not the window cleaner or the rock band.)

Just in case.

cheers

eon

105 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:35:06pm

re: #102 CapeCoddah

Wow! That is so cool, someone found Joe Biden's brain!

Too bad it wasn't Spock's brain.

106 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:35:29pm

These people are dumber than the rock they hold in their hands.

107 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:35:37pm

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:03pm

re: #104 eon

Are you McGuiver?

109 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:11pm

You know, if the economy does turn to total shit and we go down a socialist path, we need to develop a Lizardoid Institute to do bogus research and get grant money via earmarks for it.

What should we "study?" I think stacked turtle cosmology is a winner - we can say "Even Stephen Hawking has written on it!"

110 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:19pm

re: #107 Charles

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

Why would they turn it down? Money is money, the source doesn't matter.

111 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:21pm

Iowahawk should do some dumpster-diving. Maybe they hooked an EEG up to this thing.

112 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:50pm

re: #82 TaeJohnDo

For a start, vote obama ...

My bad, I thought it said putrified....

113 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:06pm

re: #107 Charles

What address? It needs a good address.

Gaza?

114 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:29pm

re: #107 Charles

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

Purely as an experiment, I assume.

115 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:34pm
116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:55pm

My brain is petrified every time I hear someone say "President Obama".

117 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:57pm

re: #84 Charles

Good thing there weren't any petrified zombies at that conference.

Mmmmm...crunchy.

118 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:38:08pm

re: #111 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Iowahawk should do some dumpster-diving. Maybe they hooked an EEG up to this thing.

They should first try the folks trying to push this "brain" as something scientifically relevant. But then flatline on the machine would be something expected with this Nobel crowd.

119 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:38:21pm

re: #107 Charles

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

/Abby Normal

120 wildcat84  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:38:49pm

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

121 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:00pm

re: #112 TaeJohnDo

Petrified, putrefied, falsified... all work.

122 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:12pm

re: #113 karmic_inquisitor

What address? It needs a good address.

Gaza?

323 Cobblestone Lane Bedrock, Wyoming

123 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:30pm

re: #119 Killian Bundy

/Abby Normal

Beat me to it.

124 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:51pm

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you McGuiver?

Not MacGuyver, but we had one power failure here due to Ike and I got sort of tired of peanut butter and crackers.

If The One wins, I'm looking for the country to start looking a lot like CA under "Grayout" Davis.

cheers

eon

125 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:40:11pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Unnecessarily mean.

126 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:40:32pm

re: #54 experiencedtraveller

Others have a rock and think it's god...

I have pet rocks....(not really)
[Link: pigeonbeaks.com...]

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:40:54pm

re: #124 eon

Oh. That's how you spell MacGuyver.

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:00pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

You might want to take that stick out of your ass. LGF is an anti-idiotarian blog, exposing the kooks of all stripes.

129 snowcrash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:09pm

re: #122 MandyManners
0 Intellectual Drive (Can you use zero?)

130 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:29pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Naw, Charles might delete your comment because you are trying to tell him what not to post on his blog, but he doesn't allow accomodate account suicide.

131 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:39pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

Oh, man. That guy has stone for brains.

132 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:51pm

re: #129 snowcrash

0 Intellectual Drive (Can you use zero?)

Would it even exist?

133 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:53pm
Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing “non-material neuroscience” movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul.


Make no mistake about it; This is exactly how the Muslim world destroyed itself in about the 11th century. They rejected all philosophy and science that didn't account for the supernatural greatness of Allah. It is no different and the end result will be exactly the same.

134 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:08pm

re: #109 karmic_inquisitor

You know, if the economy does turn to total shit and we go down a socialist path, we need to develop a Lizardoid Institute to do bogus research and get grant money via earmarks for it.

What should we "study?" I think stacked turtle cosmology is a winner - we can say "Even Stephen Hawking has written on it!"

I have enough books on UFOs and Ancient Astronauts to keep us in grant proposals until at least 2012.

/according to the Mayans, the world is supposed to end then, anyway ;-P

cheers

eon

135 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:16pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Said here again and again is that you can believe in creation and evolution.

The mental gymnastics that the ID crowd goes through to say otherwise is both laughable but also sets up a false binary choice which divides people who are of faith who actually subscribe to the scientific method.

136 irongrampa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:26pm

So that's a petrified brain? Huh--I got a back field looks to be full of them.

137 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:36pm

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. That's how you spell MacGuyver.

Actually, it is MacGyver. :)

138 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:41pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

But this time the Chinese will be on the moon.

139 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:04pm

There's also some mention of a bullet injury ([Link: www.petrifiedhumanbrain.com...] 2/3 down) - now where did that come from?

Oh dear.

140 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:08pm

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My brain is petrified every time I hear someone say "President Obama".

I don't think anyone has punned on "rock" and Obama's first name yet on this thread.

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:27pm

re: #137 FurryOldGuyJeans

So, the spelling has...evolved?

142 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:28pm
143 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:30pm

re: #134 eon

I have enough books on UFOs and Ancient Astronauts to keep us in grant proposals until at least 2012.

/according to the Mayans, the world is supposed to end then, anyway ;-P

cheers

eon

And if it does end then, I predict they will blame ... George Bush!

144 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:55pm

re: #139 ebed_melech

"Young Earth Guns."

145 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:03pm

re: #122 MandyManners

323 Cobblestone Lane Bedrock, Wyoming

Worked.

146 ssawtell  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:11pm

re: #120 wildcat84

well, people come here, in part, to be entertained. if this stuff wasn't so damn funny it wouldn't be featured. there's nothing elitist about applying the same reason and rationality to religious claims that we apply to everything else...

147 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:16pm

re: #128 FurryOldGuyJeans

You might want to take that stick out of your ass. LGF is an anti-idiotarian blog, exposing the kooks of all stripes.

Which is why we'll never run out of targets...

cheers

eon

148 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:26pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

With respect, plenty of us (myself included) have posted our personal beliefs in some sort of extremely-ancient (pre-Big Bang) input by a Deity. We have, at the same time, said that our beliefs (not to mention I.D.) should NOT be taught in science classrooms. We have not been laughed at. I myself do not feel threatened in the slightest by these threads.

149 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:37pm

re: #92 Macker

No, they found my ex-wife!


Alright , both of you take a time out.

150 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:45:02pm

re: #138 jaunte

Human exploration and science will continue with or without us. There are plenty of other countries preparing for the future while we're contemplating joining Islam in the past.

151 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:45:22pm
152 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:45:38pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Human exploration and science will continue with or without us. There are plenty of other countries preparing for the future while we're contemplating joining Islam in the past.

Hand-in-hand with Primitive 1st Century Christianity.

153 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:07pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Make no mistake about it; This is exactly how the Muslim world destroyed itself in about the 11th century. They rejected all philosophy and science that didn't account for the supernatural greatness of Allah. It is no different and the end result will be exactly the same.

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.

154 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:21pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

Killgore, the arabs had nothing to destroy

they were wiping their asses with stones, fercrissake

No wonder they're nuts: walking hemmarhoids.

155 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:31pm

re: #137 FurryOldGuyJeans

Actually, it is MacGyver. :)

Thanks. I never watched the show.

PBS was more interesting. Back then..

cheers

eon

156 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:45pm

re: #139 ebed_melech

Ah, that's where the bullet thing is. I saw it mentioned on another page but couldn't find the "evidence". Thanks.

157 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:47:14pm

re: #153 opnion

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.

Fit, I meant fit.

158 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:47:52pm

A petrified brain? At a Creationist study institute?

Isn't that almost as remarkable as finding Budweiser at a Nascar tailgate party?

159 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:47:57pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.

160 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:48:19pm

re: #158 Alberta Oil Peon

A petrified brain? At a Creationist study institute?

Isn't that almost as remarkable as finding Budweiser at a Nascar tailgate party?

Excellent!

161 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:48:25pm

re: #153 opnion

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.

But they will still try -- with a big hammer, smashing the hell out of the world all the while

162 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:49:29pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

You misunderstand the argument. Whenever anyone makes that statement here, they are usually being purposely obtuse, or, are reading the title of the thread, and not the comments. Most of us have no problem at all with G-d. We strenuously object to religion being taught in a science classroom. Period. That's it. Believe what you will, no one here objects to folks having religious beliefs. The vast majority of us here want it kept out of the science classroom, and we certainly have as much right to our opinions and beliefs without harassment just as you do. I believe in G-d, I believe g-d created evolution. I do not believe he created the Earth in 6 days, then took a break on Sunday. I do not believe he created woman from mans rib. I do not want my children and grandchildren taught this fairytale in science class.

163 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:50:15pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.


That's what I have read. It was the institution of Islam that put them into the Dark Ages & keeps them there. Never has been a Reformation.

164 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:50:53pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.

Up-ding.
Amen.
Then Iman al-Salafi'i and his disciples took over .
/oversimplication mode off

165 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:50:59pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.

When?

166 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:51:03pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

Killgore, the arabs had nothing to destroy

they were wiping their asses with stones, fercrissake

The Arabs did preserve a lot of scientific ideas when it was being purged from Europe during the Dark Ages. And they extended science quite a ways (Arabic numbers anyone? Algebra? Chemistry?) until Muslims as a whole took a fundamentalist turn to forgo anything that was not written down in the Koran or explained by an Imam. There really was a lot to destroy, and they did a wondrous job of it. Luckily by then European though had been fertilized and pollinated with knowledge that helped to kick start the Renaissance.

167 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:51:56pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Islam certainly stultified and petrified around 12th C, big question is why? Maybe after Ghazzali's syncretism with Aristotle, or perhaps the root was the definitive rejection of the Mu'tazalis (who taught creation of the Word), and the concession to fatalism that entailed. Before that Islam was quite a fertile field for science - at least it gave enough freedom for enquiry (often by Jews and Christians too) to flourish.

Steve Weinberg has an interesting passage on the dangers of philosophical positions for science,and cites Mach and Einstein for example - both great pioneers hampered by their presuppositions.

168 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:19pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.


Quit being so hard headed

169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:26pm

As a Christian, I can tell you that I do not have single solitary Christian friend who would buy this nonsense for a second.

Had to say that.

170 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:32pm

re: #162 CapeCoddah

I do not believe he created the Earth in 6 days, then took a break on Sunday.

Huh?

171 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:36pm

re: #166 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Arabs did preserve a lot of scientific ideas when it was being purged from Europe during the Dark Ages. And they extended science quite a ways (Arabic numbers anyone? Algebra? Chemistry?) until Muslims as a whole took a fundamentalist turn to forgo anything that was not written down in the Koran or explained by an Imam. There really was a lot to destroy, and they did a wondrous job of it. Luckily by then European though had been fertilized and pollinated with knowledge that helped to kick start the Renaissance.

Furry, that is an outstanding analysis.

172 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:56pm

re: #169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As a Christian, I can tell you that I do not have single solitary Christian friend who would buy this nonsense for a second.

Had to say that.

Good taste in friends, eh? ;)

173 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:53:00pm

re: #153 opnion

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.


You can if your pegs are made of Jello

174 rawmuse  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:53:32pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

Killgore, the arabs had nothing to destroy

they were wiping their asses with stones, fercrissake

Have to come down on the side of KT, for once. The Muslims invented many things, including a numbering system that we still use today, which included zero, and algebra (pronounced Al-jabbar, I think). Ever wonder why we ditched Roman numerals?

And they did all this while the West was in the darkest of the Dark Ages.

175 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:54:09pm

A couple of things, first to all of those out there, maintaining that Charles "is only interested in keeping this stuff out of the schools". Charles why don't you tell these people they are misinformed.

Tell them that you believe if a person teaches creationism to their kids in the privacy of their own homes they are guilty of "child abuse", and "they are a threat to the country." Of course they can go to end of the last ID thread and read it themselves. Why not tell them that it's the belief you are attacking, not just the teaching of that belief in the schools. A lot of your lizards are really badly informed, as to your thoughts on these things.

Secondly, last night I decided to go on the Discovery Institute website. The thing about them that I found the scariest, was when I clicked on a few of the names of the people involved there, I was seeing Harvard law, so and so, Havard B school, so and so, Columbia Law school, so and so. This actually disturbed me. I thought, nothing much I consider good comes out of Harvard anymore, I don't know about these people.

But stupid, they are not.

176 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:54:27pm

re: #174 rawmuse

Have to come down on the side of KT, for once. The Muslims invented many things, including a numbering system that we still use today, which included zero, and algebra (pronounced Al-jabbar, I think). Ever wonder why we ditched Roman numerals?

And they did all this while the West was in the darkest of the Dark Ages.

It's the book

177 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:54:30pm

re: #170 Lynn B.

Huh?

"When God[2] began to create heaven and earth, and the earth then was welter and waste and darkness over the deep and God's breath hovering over the waters, God said, 'Let there be light.' and there was light" [3]; the "firmament" separating "the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;" dry land and seas and plants and trees which grew fruit with seed; the sun, moon and stars in the firmament; air-breathing sea creatures and birds; and on the sixth day, "the beasts of the earth according to their kinds." "Then God said, Let us make man in our image ... in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."[4] On the Sabbath, God rests from the task of completing the heavens and the earth:

178 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:55:41pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Make no mistake about it; This is exactly how the Muslim world destroyed itself in about the 11th century. They rejected all philosophy and science that didn't account for the supernatural greatness of Allah. It is no different and the end result will be exactly the same.

/when in doubt or danger, run in circles, scream and shout

179 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:56:10pm

re: #166 FurryOldGuyJeans

they extended science quite a ways

But much of that was "sponsored" -- Jews, Christians, whomever, especially during the Abbasid Caliphate.

See Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism, Chapter 3.

180 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:56:55pm

re: #175 capefear

Interesting that you feel the need to defend Disco institute in an ICR/AIG thread...

181 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:56:57pm

re: #175 capefear

Still looking for those martyr points, I see.

182 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:57:01pm

re: #178 Killian Bundy

/when in doubt or danger, run in circles, scream and shout

Then kiss your ass 'cause its lights out!

183 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:57:52pm

re: #167 ebed_melech

Also see the book and chapter cited in my:
re: #179 pre-Boomer Marine brat

184 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:58:07pm

MSU defeats Michigan, 35 to 21.

185 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:58:23pm

re: #163 opnion

That's what I have read. It was the institution of Islam that put them into the Dark Ages & keeps them there. Never has been a Reformation.

t was vice versa. Europe was in the Dark Ages at that time. Islam was making discoveries and capitalizing on discoveries and writings from conquered lands and pilgrims. Then things went horribly wrong when certain rulers put religion ahead of all else. short easy story.

186 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:59:23pm

Hail to the Victors

snicker

187 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:00:30pm

re: #135 karmic_inquisitor

... a false binary choice which divides people ...

There's a lot of that going on in recent decades.

188 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:01:11pm

re: #174 rawmuse

Have to come down on the side of KT, for once. The Muslims invented many things, including a numbering system that we still use today, which included zero, and algebra (pronounced Al-jabbar, I think). Ever wonder why we ditched Roman numerals?

And they did all this while the West was in the darkest of the Dark Ages.

I think both Algebra and Arabic numbers were actually Indian in origin. The Europeans got them from the Arabs, and thought the Arabs invented them, thus the mis-naming we currently have today.

189 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:01:35pm

re: #166 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Arabs did preserve a lot of scientific ideas when it was being purged from Europe during the Dark Ages. And they extended science quite a ways (Arabic numbers anyone? Algebra? Chemistry?) until Muslims as a whole took a fundamentalist turn to forgo anything that was not written down in the Koran or explained by an Imam. There really was a lot to destroy, and they did a wondrous job of it. Luckily by then European though had been fertilized and pollinated with knowledge that helped to kick start the Renaissance.

That's their story and they're sticking to it.

There are, of course, other versions of that history. (Given more time, I could find a better source. I'll work on it.)

190 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:01:52pm

It must be the time of year for Charlie Browns Halloween special.
And the famous line, "I gotta rock"

191 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:02:21pm

re: #179 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But much of that was "sponsored" -- Jews, Christians, whomever, especially during the Abbasid Caliphate.

See Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism, Chapter 3.

Regardless, knowledge was preserved AND expanded. So whether it was sponsored or a direct result of Muslim research and/or thought really is nit-picking as I see it. For example, did Congress do the research to put man on the moon, or did they "sponsor" NASA to do it? The Caliphate could just have just as easily not sponsored others instead of what was actually done. To ignore what happened would not be scientific.

192 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:02:40pm

We have proof positive fossilized human brains are a fact.......

Just look at Plugs Biden.

193 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:05pm

re: #190 DEZes

It must be the time of year for Charlie Browns Halloween special.
And the famous line, "I gotta rock"

Blockhead

194 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:32pm

re: #193 Shug
LOL

195 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:35pm

Speaking of boneheads, have you guys heard that Barock spent $5.3 million on his stage and lighting at Invesco Field for his convention speech? And they say Sarah Palen spent an outlandish amount on clothing for her campaign!

196 rawmuse  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:37pm

re: #188 stevieray

Your argument has merit.

In the link, they are referred to as Hindu-arabic numerals.

197 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:03pm
non-materialist causation

.

Wow.

198 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:19pm

re: #188 stevieray

I think both Algebra and Arabic numbers were actually Indian in origin. The Europeans got them from the Arabs, and thought the Arabs invented them, thus the mis-naming we currently have today.

You're right. Both were developed by the Indians.

199 GoJeepGo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:24pm

re: #192 JCM

We have proof positive fossilized human brains are a fact.......

Just look at Plugs Biden.

Speaking of... he's getting hammered by my local news!

200 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:29pm

re: #177 CapeCoddah

Yes, that would be the seventh day, which would be Saturday.

Sunday came to be observed as the Sabbath, by some people, a little later.

201 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:52pm

re: #195 Griffon

Speaking of boneheads, have you guys heard that Barock spent $5.3 million on his stage and lighting at Invesco Field for his convention speech? And they say Sarah Palen spent an outlandish amount on clothing for her campaign!

But He is The One©.

202 Purple Prose  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:05pm

If only they put their energy into getting McCain elected and preventing the most liberal, inexperienced and questionable person to ever run for the office of POTUS from being elected. Instead, they choose to use their considerable energy to fighting reason.

203 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:30pm

Creationists discussing a petrified brain?

I'd like some extra sauce to go with that delicious symbolism, please.

204 Winslow  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:37pm

The brain of a Designist is irredeemably simplistic -- too simplistic to be the result of evolution.

205 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:41pm

re: #185 Outrider

t was vice versa. Europe was in the Dark Ages at that time. Islam was making discoveries and capitalizing on discoveries and writings from conquered lands and pilgrims. Then things went horribly wrong when certain rulers put religion ahead of all else. short easy story.

I do believe that we are saying about the same thing. I am not saying that because Islam existed that progress stoped.
I am saying that with the enforcement of Islam progress was halted.
Islam does not condone free thinking. Advancements after that were made by parastic practices, taking from host countries , generally Europe.
Even today, how many Noble prize Muslim winners?

206 ssawtell  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:53pm

re: #175 capefear


Why not tell them that it's the belief you are attacking, not just the teaching of that belief in the schools.

so what if he is (not saying he is, I have no idea)? if someone puts forth a claim in any other realm - politics, economics, science etc., we are free to debate the validity of it. if someone puts forth a religious claim we are just supposed to say "oh, ok. i respect your belief."? I claim the right to attack a belief in debate that i think is manifestly false, regardless of the subject.

207 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:06:04pm

re: #185 Outrider

t was vice versa. Europe was in the Dark Ages at that time. Islam was making discoveries and capitalizing on discoveries and writings from conquered lands and pilgrims. Then things went horribly wrong when certain rulers put religion ahead of all else. short easy story.

But lets not forget it was the Catholic Monasteries that became the keeper of knowledge and scholarship alive during the dark ages in the West. The irony is that the Catholic Church that did so much to preserve knowledge was the same Church that later denied knowledge.

People always screw things up, don't they?

208 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:06:45pm

re: #189 Lynn B.

That's their story and they're sticking to it.

There are, of course, other versions of that history. (Given more time, I could find a better source. I'll work on it.)

Because Islam presents a threat now is no reason to rewrite history and minimize the level of civilization they had long ago. There are to many historical references written that document that history.

209 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:06pm

re: #179 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But much of that was "sponsored" -- Jews, Christians, whomever, especially during the Abbasid Caliphate.

See Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism, Chapter 3.

Thank you. That would definitely be one of those "better sources" I mentioned. A highly recommended read.

210 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:07pm

re: #199 GoJeepGo

Speaking of... he's getting hammered by my local news!

And they're being punished for it, too. That is, for actually asking tough questions. Like journalists are supposed to.

211 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:21pm

re: #175 capefear

But stupid, they are not.


You sure seem to be wanting that mantle, though. Ahh, the joys of wanting to be a self-anointed martyr.

212 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:25pm

re: #190 DEZes

It's the great fossil...

213 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:31pm

re: #191 FurryOldGuyJeans

Regardless, knowledge was preserved AND expanded. So whether it was sponsored or a direct result of Muslim research and/or thought really is nit-picking as I see it. For example, did Congress do the research to put man on the moon, or did they "sponsor" NASA to do it? The Caliphate could just have just as easily not sponsored others instead of what was actually done. To ignore what happened would not be scientific.

Point taken.

OT, for the trivia of it, look up how many Japanese have won scientific Nobel Prizes FOR WORK DONE WHILE LIVING IN JAPAN. Several years ago, it was zilch.

214 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:08:06pm

In response to latest comments Charles added to the header - I doubt there's much mystery, DI is probably planning to take on mind-brain identity head on. It's ripe for demolishing, and there'd be no shortage of neuroscientists and neurosurgeons who'd be happy to debunk materialist monism who'd have little truck with the DI.

215 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:08:27pm
216 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:02pm

re: #212 Thanos
upding

217 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:43pm

re: #199 GoJeepGo

Speaking of... he's getting hammered by my local news!

I liked that newscaster a LOT! She wasn't afraid to ask him tough questions. He just didn't want to answer them, so he laughed at her. What else could he do. He didn't dare agree with her or he'd be in trouble with his "boss" again.

218 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:44pm

re: #175 capefear

I thought, nothing much I consider good comes out of Harvard anymore, I don't know about these people.

But stupid, they are not.

Don't confuse education with intelligence.

219 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:56pm

re: #208 Outrider

Because Islam presents a threat now is no reason to rewrite history and minimize the level of civilization they had long ago. There are to many historical references written that document that history.

The rewriting was done long ago and has become an accepted part of popular culture. I think if you delve into it a little more deeply, you'll find that to be the case.

220 drmark  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:10:34pm

Creationists declare war over the brain

To do so, they look to some of their favourite experiments, such as research by Schwartz in the 1990s on people suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder. Schwartz used scanning technology to look at the neural patterns thought to be responsible for OCD. Then he had patients use "mindful attention" to actively change their thought processes, and this showed up in the brain scans: patients could alter their patterns of neural firing at will.

From such experiments, Schwartz and others argue that since the mind can change the brain, the mind must be something other than the brain, something non-material. In fact, these experiments are entirely consistent with mainstream neurology - the material brain is changing the material brain.

Think about it....

221 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:11:08pm

re: #209 Lynn B.

Thank you. That would definitely be one of those "better sources" I mentioned. A highly recommended read.

It's now out in a trade paperback 2nd Edition. I hate paperbacks, but I jumped at buying it.

I already had the original. The top of it is a literal forest of little Post-It flags.

222 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:11:38pm

re: #207 TaeJohnDo

But lets not forget it was the Catholic Monasteries that became the keeper of knowledge and scholarship alive during the dark ages in the West. The irony is that the Catholic Church that did so much to preserve knowledge was the same Church that later denied knowledge.

People always screw things up, don't they?

* * * *
Fortunately, a Polish catholic got sick and tired of Nazi & Communist propaganda about the "New, Modern, Progressive (Marxist) Man" getting shoved down his throat, so when he became Pope John Paul, he helped topple that evil regime of "progressives" who put people into gulags and murdered those they disagreed with.

Thank Heaven for religious refuseniks and anyone who thought they had a first amendment right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, apart from what some "modern, progressive, marxist" regime doles out to its unhappy inmates.

223 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:12:10pm

I'm not ashamed at all to say that I have no respect for the ideology of creationism. And if you teach your children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and dinosaurs were around at the same time as people, and that scientists are evil atheistic monsters trying to destroy your religion -- yes, I do indeed consider that a form of child abuse. You're taking a young mind and indoctrinating it to reject science in favor of fanaticism, and that's simply wrong.

You have a right to choose to believe in this hooey, and I respect that right. I don't respect the hooey itself, though, and I really don't respect people who corrupt childrens' minds with it.

224 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:12:41pm

re: #205 opnion

I do believe that we are saying about the same thing. I am not saying that because Islam existed that progress stoped.
I am saying that with the enforcement of Islam progress was halted.
Islam does not condone free thinking. Advancements after that were made by parastic practices, taking from host countries , generally Europe.
Even today, how many Noble prize Muslim winners?

to a point. under early Islam; with the number of pilgrims traveling, knowledge and diversity of thought was encouraged. The, the literalists took over. I'd have to look up the specifics. A lot of discoveries were made by others; Indians for example. But, this freedom and the concept of pilgrimages allowed these concepts to spread more easily.

225 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:13:29pm

re: #188 stevieray

I think both Algebra and Arabic numbers were actually Indian in origin. The Europeans got them from the Arabs, and thought the Arabs invented them, thus the mis-naming we currently have today.

Refined, preserved, and transmitted to Europe by the Arabs, though, hence why they have Arabic names.

226 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:13:39pm

re: #220 drmark

and the mind can change the shape of the body by inducing it to excercise more, causing different gene expression. What about it?

227 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:13:43pm

re: #183 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Karsh sounds interesting, Lewis of course, who's no mean authority has quite a lot of respect for Islamic hegemony. It's reasonable to ask why the Middle East left Byzantium and Rome behind, and served as a repository for science the rest of Europe had forgotten.

One example I stumbled across recently was Servetus' (Calvin's heretical opponent) description of the circulation from an Arab source long time before Harvey's.

228 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:02pm

re: #218 TaeJohnDo

Don't confuse education with intelligence.

/understanding the microbiology of the human brain is essential to further human progress

229 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:15pm

re: #220 drmark

Oooh. Deep.

230 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:23pm

re: #218 TaeJohnDo

Don't confuse education with intelligence.

Certainly can't explain Congress if you do.

231 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:38pm

re: #195 Griffon

Speaking of boneheads, have you guys heard that Barock spent $5.3 million on his stage and lighting at Invesco Field for his convention speech? And they say Sarah Palen spent an outlandish amount on clothing for her campaign!

ACORN is all about stage-and-lighting.

232 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:59pm

re: #222 alegrias

* * * *
Fortunately, a Polish catholic got sick and tired of Nazi & Communist propaganda about the "New, Modern, Progressive (Marxist) Man" getting shoved down his throat, so when he became Pope John Paul, he helped topple that evil regime of "progressives" who put people into gulags and murdered those they disagreed with.

Thank Heaven for religious refuseniks and anyone who thought they had a first amendment right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, apart from what some "modern, progressive, marxist" regime doles out to its unhappy inmates.

Well said and AMEN! PJP is one of my heroes! Along with Reagan, Thacher and Sgt Rock! (He never needed a parachute -- he was tough!)

233 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:15:14pm

re: #207 TaeJohnDo

But lets not forget it was the Catholic Monasteries that became the keeper of knowledge and scholarship alive during the dark ages in the West. The irony is that the Catholic Church that did so much to preserve knowledge was the same Church that later denied knowledge.

People always screw things up, don't they?

This the same folks that condemned people for thinking the world was round and the sun did not in fact revolve around the Earth?

234 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:15:16pm

re: #217 Griffon

I liked that newscaster a LOT! She wasn't afraid to ask him tough questions. He just didn't want to answer them, so he laughed at her. What else could he do. He didn't dare agree with her or he'd be in trouble with his "boss" again.

Her career is over....../
She was excellent, if the media a few more like that we'd have a different election.

235 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:23pm

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

236 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:34pm

re: #210 arethusa

And they're being punished for it, too. That is, for actually asking tough questions. Like journalists are supposed to.

That's great! I hope the cancellation got noised all over the media and that they reran the hell out of the interview with Biden so people could see that he didn't like the tough questions. He better stay out of the kitchen.

237 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:48pm

re: #223 Charles

What about the fairy tale of abiogenesis? Should children be taught what most acknowledge is extremely farfetched science to put it politely.

238 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:50pm

re: #219 Lynn B.

The rewriting was done long ago and has become an accepted part of popular culture. I think if you delve into it a little more deeply, you'll find that to be the case.

noted. get a book.

239 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:24pm

re: #234 JCM

Her career is over....../
She was excellent, if the media a few more like that we'd have a different election.

Maybe not....she might be the tip of the iceberg on the critical mass of responsible reporters. Notice I did NOT say journalists; not a one of them critters is responsible except for a lot of lies.

240 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:27pm

re: #234 JCM

Her career is over....../
She was excellent, if the media a few more like that we'd have a different election.


I loved that clip, saw a little quip on Hot Air, that Biden found himself on WTF.TV.

241 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:27pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationist are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

Do share........

242 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:34pm

re: #224 Outrider

to a point. under early Islam; with the number of pilgrims traveling, knowledge and diversity of thought was encouraged. The, the literalists took over. I'd have to look up the specifics. A lot of discoveries were made by others; Indians for example. But, this freedom and the concept of pilgrimages allowed these concepts to spread more easily.

I will grant that. What I am saying is that once Islam took hold inquiry became very dangerous & it is evident that truly Islamic societies are backward.

243 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:02pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

Darn, you get all the good hate mail. ;)

244 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:18pm

re: #236 Griffon

That's great! I hope the cancellation got noised all over the media and that they reran the hell out of the interview with Biden so people could see that he didn't like the tough questions. He better stay out of the kitchen.

It's tops on Drudge. CNN's top story? The Palin-acting-like-a-rogue story.

245 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:37pm
246 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:50pm

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

247 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:53pm

re: #223 Charles

I'm right there with you. While neo-nazis, scientologists, leftist crystal worshippers, etc. all have the right to teach their children what they want, I don't have to respect them for it either.

248 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:16pm

re: #230 FurryOldGuyJeans

Certainly can't explain Congress if you do.

* * *
Congress ain't stupid, silly wabbit--they're smart like bank robbers, they're there because that's where the MONEY is. SPREADING THE WEALTH through porkbarrel self dealing.

Some are more principled than others. Chicago politicians are the worst though, and famously so.

249 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:24pm

re: #227 ebed_melech

Karsh sounds interesting, Lewis of course, who's no mean authority has quite a lot of respect for Islamic hegemony. It's reasonable to ask why the Middle East left Byzantium and Rome behind, and served as a repository for science the rest of Europe had forgotten.

One example I stumbled across recently was Servetus' (Calvin's heretical opponent) description of the circulation from an Arab source long time before Harvey's.

You're better read on the subject than I am. Bernard Lewis? Yes. Coined "clash of civilizations", I believe back in the 50's. I've read an article by him, but no books.

250 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:33pm

re: #239 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe not....she might be the tip of the iceberg on the critical mass of responsible reporters. Notice I did NOT say journalists; not a one of them critters is responsible except for a lot of lies.

I certainly hope so. Would be nice not to have fisk every stinky news report.

251 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:37pm
252 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:02pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

You must be over the target.

253 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:11pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

Well I'm sure that this time that will make you see the light and repent.

/not holding breath...

254 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:18pm

re: #245 ploome hineni

the Caliphate did not sponsor, they took over very brilliant civilization, the Assyrian, Byzantine and Persian and Jewish

and in retrospect, demanded credit for the art, literature and medical and scientific works produced by these slowly dying civilizations

in Arabia.......with no outside influence, there was nothing, there is nothing and there will be nothing because of the suffocating brutal ignorance of islam

an it took a few hundred years to suck the life out of those people

this is not nit-picking

Spot on!

255 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:27pm

re: #248 alegrias

* * *
Congress ain't stupid, silly wabbit--they're smart like bank robbers, they're there because that's where the MONEY is. SPREADING THE WEALTH through porkbarrel self dealing.

Some are more principled than others. Chicago politicians are the worst though, and famously so.

Then please explain Senator Joseph Biden, if you can. Are you seriously saying Joe Plugs is SMART?!?

256 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:30pm

re: #246 Shug

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

This is lighting command, new target coordinates.
Fire mission. Shugs house three bolts.

/

257 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:32pm

re: #242 opnion

I will grant that. What I am saying is that once Islam took hold inquiry became very dangerous & it is evident that truly Islamic societies are backward.

yes.

258 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:34pm

re: #246 Shug

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

If the left are so sure Obama will win, why do they get so enraged when anyone suggests he won't?

259 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:00pm

re: #163 opnion

That's what I have read. It was the institution of Islam that put them into the Dark Ages & keeps them there. Never has been a Reformation.

I have a theory about cultures, FWIW.

There are three fundamental types, which I call (originally enough) Type 1, 2, and 3.

Type 1 cultures are the ones which innovate, discover things, and invent things. These cultures reward innovation, by making those who create new things rich, influential, or powerful. Or just respect the H**l out of them. (Example- the British Crown knighting [Sir] Isaac Newton for his accomplishments in mathematics.) These are the leader cultures which change the world, like it or not. Greece, Rome, ancient China, and the U.S. today are typical Type 1 cultures. Most Type 1 cultures are democracies, although there have been exceptions.

Type 2 cultures are the next rung down. They do not innovate to any great extent, but they are good at adapting innovations from Type 1 cultures. And they can, sometimes, evolve into Type 1s. Japan is the classic example of such a culture, which adopted Western technology rapidly beween Coomodore Perry's landing in 1854 and the Russo-Japanese War of 1904. Today, they are possibly the foremost Type 1 culture around, with only the U.S. and some Western European countries even close to them. Type 2 cultures may be democracies, or monarchies, or despotisms- it varies. They do, however, tend to change government forms as they evolve.

Type 3 cultures are the lowest rung on the ladder. They are the cultures that neither innovate nor adapt readily. Usually due to an adherence to dogmas that generally or even specifically prohibit new ideas. Such prohibitions may be religious in nature, or simply due to a lack of education. Examples include tribal cultures worldwide, often existing within nation-states which are Type 1 or 2 cultures themselves. Type 3 cultures rarely have governments of a representative type, except in the abstract.

The point is that, just as a Type 2 culture can evolve into a Type 1, a Type 3 can evolve into a Type 2, and from there to a 1, given adequate education. By the same token, a Type 1 can devolve into a Type 2, or even a Type 3, given a sufficient disruption of its knowledge base.

Where does this come in?

Ancient China was a Type 1 culture. But after the stultifying effects of its rigidly-stratified society began to take full effect during the Ming Dynasty, it became a Type 2 culture, which it is today.

Japan was a Type 3 culture which became a Type 2 while still ruled by the system of government which had been extant when it was a Type 3. After World War Two, that system was finally gone, replaced by a Western-style democracy, and Japan became a full-on Type 1.

The Arab world was a Type 2 culture, readily adapting new ideas (black powder, decimal notation, astronomy) from Type 1 cultures. Then Islam came along, and it quickly lost its adaptive edge, and became rigidly locked in stasis. It was never a Type 1 culture, and now may never have the chance to be one.

As for the U.S. and the West in general, these Type 1 cultures are now trending toward Type 2, and in some cases (notably Berkeley) are heading for Type 3 at an uncomfortably high rate of descent.

Note that none of this has anything to do with "race", "ethnicity", or anything except a culture's way of dealing with innovation. And it's just my own theory, based on observation.

Take it for what it's worth. Or not.

/ducks

cheers

eon

260 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:08pm

Here's the latest:

Your obsession in this debate has overshadowed the wonderful work you have done in exposing the dangers of Islamic fundamentalism.

I don't think you're trying to change any minds--only strut your views as intellectually superior to those who have shared your concern and desire to discuss and expose those who pose a very real threat to western freedoms.

I can get this kind of single-minded obsession at Andrew Sullivan's.

Bookmark deleted. For good.

Get well soon.

"Single-minded obsession." There are about 3 dozen posts right now on the front page, and two are about creationism.

One-track mind, that's me.

261 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:24pm

re: #231 debutaunt

ACORN is all about stage-and-lighting.

* * *
If Hillary cared about women politicians, she would have lent sister Sarah her pantsuit collection, slightly used.

Governor Sarah Palin normally buys used clothes at consignment shops. But nooooooo, Hillary didn't want to help out a sister.

262 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:26pm

re: #256 JCM

This is lighting command, new target coordinates.
Fire mission. Shugs house three bolts.

/


I'm holding up my 1 iron.

Even God can't hit a 1 iron
- Lee Trevino

263 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:22:16pm

re: #259 eon

Wow - that is kind of Aristotelian, actually.

264 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:22:43pm

re: #228 Killian Bundy

/understanding the microbiology of the human brain is essential to further human progress

OK, how about, Don't confuse academic credentials from big named schools with a proper education and intelligence. One of the most ignorant person I know is a man with a PhD in psychology from a prestigious school.

You know, if you don't properly apply the training and education you receive, you can make horrendously stupid decisions, especially when your belief in something is more profound than the reality of something.

265 nyc redneck  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:22:57pm

this is an ridiculous "science" article.
first that spongy rubber thing they were all handling in the photos is not a petrified brain.
actual petrified brains have been recovered from the fossil record. and some have been recovered from primates.
what happens is the animal dies and when the brain decays, the brain cavity fills up w/ silt or clay and hardens into the exact external morphology of the brain that used to be there..
convolutions and blood vessels are readily observable but the interior gray matter is nothing but stone.
an endocrainial cast of a brain doesn't bleed or swell or change colors. it is just a rock.
this is more bizarre than the 'fossil' of the dino print on top of the human foot print. fantasy.

266 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:02pm

re: #260 Charles

Here's the latest:

"Single-minded obsession." There are about 3 dozen posts right now on the front page, and two are about creationism.

One-track mind, that's me.

Interesting that they don't mind you attacking fundamentalism if it is Islamic, but do the same for the Christian fundies that have just as insidious an agenda and they come all unglued.

267 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:13pm

re: #233 Outrider

This the same folks that condemned people for thinking the world was round and the sun did not in fact revolve around the Earth?

* * *
No, those "folks" who said that died around the time of Copernicus.
Different folks, same institution, several hundred years apart you see.

Under different management.

268 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:38pm

re: #262 Shug

I'm holding up my 1 iron.

Even God can't hit a 1 iron
- Lee Trevino

A priest and doctor were out golfing one Wednesday afternoon. The doctor gets up to take his first shot. He swings and misses the ball completely.

"God dammit, I missed," says the doctor.

The sky starts to darken a bit becoming overcast.

"Don't use the Lord God's name in vain," says the priest.

"I am sorry, Father," replies the doctor.

The doctor steps up again to tee off and misses the ball once again.

"God dammit, I missed," says the doctor. The sky darkens even more and a low rumble resounds throughout the land.

"Don't use the Lord God's name in vain," says the priest.

"I am sorry, Father," replies the doctor.

Once again, the doctor tries to take a swing at the ball and completely misses. He throws his club to the ground and yells, "God dammit, I missed."

The heavens roared and the storm erupted, sending a lightning bolt down and straight into the priest, which struck him dead.

Then a booming voice arose from the sky and said, "Dammit, I missed."

269 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:56pm
270 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:56pm

re: #245 ploome hineni

I was the one who originally said "sponsored" up-thread (#179), and I put it in quotes. You have an excellent point, which is why I did that.

271 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:13pm

re: #259 eon

Excellent post.

272 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:27pm

re: #225 FurryOldGuyJeans

Refined, preserved, and transmitted to Europe by the Arabs, though, hence why they have Arabic names.

Actually, mainly refined by Persians and transmitted by Arab traders.

273 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:35pm

re: #223 Charles

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

274 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:44pm

re: #245 ploome hineni

the Caliphate did not sponsor, they took over very brilliant civilization, the Assyrian, Byzantine and Persian and Jewish

and in retrospect, demanded credit for the art, literature and medical and scientific works produced by these slowly dying civilizations

in Arabia.......with no outside influence, there was nothing, there is nothing and there will be nothing because of the suffocating brutal ignorance of islam

an it took a few hundred years to suck the life out of those people

this is not nit-picking

Indeed. For frighteningly apt popular culture analogy, see Borg, The.

275 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:51pm

re: #260 Charles

Get well soon.


What? No prayers?

276 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:25:30pm

re: #251 ploome hineni

do you have a source for that scenario?

Got quite a few, but as someone else noted earlier, they have apparently been "rewritten" by, I assume Muslim apologists.

This is a little awkward as I'm sitting here typing with one finger while holding a sleeping grand daughter with my other arm.

277 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:04pm

re: #275 Killgore Trout

What? No prayers?

No prayers for the damned I guess....
How very Christian.

no sarc.

278 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:04pm

re: #269 ploome hineni

Almost; slight correction:
"as it is TODAY, Spain published more books in one year than all the arab countries put together [publish in a year].

279 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:16pm

re: #273 capefear

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

280 legalpad  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:35pm

Perhaps Creationists can infect science with religion the way environmentalism has infected it with politics. It's too bad. They neither understand science or religion.

281 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:45pm

re: #263 arethusa

Wow - that is kind of Aristotelian, actually.

Thank you! :-)

cheers

eon

282 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:27:06pm

re: #269 ploome hineni

191 FurryOldGuyJeans

the arabs were illiterate

if the written word was preserved, it was because the arabs/muslims did not know what it was

as it is TODAY, Spain published more books in one year than all the arab countries put together have ever published

/or some such number

Look at the times and the technology available. And then look at the modern world and you can see similar circumstances, hence the reason for this thread in the first place.

And knowledge is a lot more than just words on paper bound into books.

283 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:27:59pm

re: #264 TaeJohnDo

OK, how about, Don't confuse academic credentials from big named schools with a proper education and intelligence. One of the most ignorant person I know is a man with a PhD in psychology from a prestigious school.

You know, if you don't properly apply the training and education you receive, you can make horrendously stupid decisions, especially when your belief in something is more profound than the reality of something.

/the goal remains, the human existence start and stops with the human brain, I welcome all comers, if they're wrong, they're wrong

284 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:08pm

re: #239 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe not....she might be the tip of the iceberg on the critical mass of responsible reporters. Notice I did NOT say journalists; not a one of them critters is responsible except for a lot of lies.

From the WSJ, John Fund in the Political Diary:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Mr. Obama will certainly be getting the lion's share of votes from reporters who cover his campaign, but that doesn't make his media operation popular. "There is an arrogance there that I hope doesn't carry forward to any Obama White House," one reporter who travels frequently with the candidate told me. "But all the signs of trouble are already there."

285 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:16pm

re: #273 capefear

Wow- are you ever ignoring the point in the most froward example I've ever seen.

286 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:21pm

re: #260 Charles

Yep, a one-track mind, a real Chattanooga Choo-Choo

/

287 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:36pm

re: #255 FurryOldGuyJeans

Then please explain Senator Joseph Biden, if you can. Are you seriously saying Joe Plugs is SMART?!?

* * * *
Yes, it does take some smarts to get elected. You've seen how treacherous it is if the media is against you.

But to win re-election 35 years in a row--Joe Biden as a democrat has the democrat machine backing him. Unfortunately, his constituents who disagree with him are stuck on the wrong end of democrat machine politics and don't get a choice for 35 years straight. God Love them, as Joe Biden and his mother might say.

288 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:53pm

re: #223 Charles

You have a right to choose to believe in this hooey, and I respect that right. I don't respect the hooey itself, though, and I really don't respect people who corrupt childrens' minds with it.

Amen, Charles.

When I was a young 'un in college, I had to write a paper comparing creation in the Bible to evolution. I already knew the answer, but it helped me reach some personal decisions concerning my religious beliefs, which I had never dared seriously ponder before. It is very difficult to be reared in a strict religious home, never believing the religious stuff you are expected to swallow hook, line, and sinker. And it's hard when your family is subsidizing your edumacation and you want to hurl every time they nag you about going to church. They never quit harassing me about religion until I got married at age 31. Had I known that, I'd have married at 12.

289 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:03pm

re: #279 Charles


I don't know Charles your always telling me.

I want to shut down discussion. I'm against debate. I don't want my views questioned. In almost every post you tell me what I had for breakfast.

290 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:12pm

re: #259 eon

I think you have it right.

Culture is destiny.

And analyzing cultures is not racist or bigoted... those words are thrown around to stifle uncomfortable truths... like the absurdity of multiculturalism, for instance.

291 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:20pm
292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:48pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

Hey Shar... Crush any more "ACORNS" today?

293 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:30:11pm
294 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:30:13pm

If evolution is real, where do chicken dinosaurs come from? My kids eat them all the time.

295 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:30:40pm

From the site: "Brother Ian Taylor of Creation Moments
was totally amazed at this fossil.
"Very interesting artifact. I know the
Good Lord is working in this area and somehow it will be used for His Glory. Lithification of soft tissue and of this calibre is a first as far as I know."

Man! Now my brain is becoming petrified. I tried reading some of that nonsense. They manage to "prove" it's not some natural geological occurrence by ridiculously mis-stating the definitions of the geological phenomena.

Without getting my hands on it, I'd hazard a guess it's simply a large nodule of jasper, which is merely cryptocrystalline silica with some iron oxide content.

They go on at great lengths about the property of cleavage. Cleavage can be a property of either rocks or mineral crystals. In crystals, cleavage is simply an expression of planes of weaker bonding in preferred directions. Not all minerals have it, quartz (the mineral best fitting the claimed composition of this blob) being one that doesn't. But cryptocrystalline materials would not exhibit cleavage, anyway, since cleavage is a property of individual crystals, and with countless randomly-oriented sub-microscopic cystals, cleavage planes could not be seen. And rock cleavage is another property altogether, being planes of weakness expressed between individual crystals or microlayers that have been preferentially oriented due to imposed stress. Slate is the classic example.

This specimen probably started out as an accumulation of silica gel, which gradually became dewatered, and crystallized as chalcedony, which is the cryptocrystalline form of quartz. Agate is the most familiar form of chalcedony. Jasper is very similar, but colored and rendered opaque by iron oxide.

Even if it were in fact a fossilized human brain, that would prove exactly zilch with respect to Intelligent Design.

If I did get my hands on it, I'd run it through a diamond saw in a New York minute. Might make real pretty slabs.

296 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:02pm

re: #268 JCM

/s
JCM, as a Catholic, all I can say regarding your joke is "I'll see you in hell!

297 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:12pm

re: #273 capefear

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

You mistake Charles point (if I may speak for him). As a Evangelical Christian and one who believes in a God created universe. I happen to agree with Charles on this.

Selling faith as science is both bad faith and bad science. What the Disco Institute is up too is not about faith, it's about using political power to foist faith upon everyone. That's not how the gospel works.

298 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:15pm

re: #289 capefear

I don't know Charles your always telling me.

I want to shut down discussion. I'm against debate. I don't want my views questioned. In almost every post you tell me what I had for breakfast.

Glad you admitted you are against debate and don't want your views questioned. Refreshing to have someone be so blunt and condescending when they whine.

299 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:33pm

re: #293 ploome hineni

I can't find a better link, but I saw it at Meryl Yourish:
"Arabs vs Israel"
By Farrukh Saleem
[Link: www.yourish.com...]

300 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:34pm
301 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:35pm

re: #289 capefear

Why are you here?

302 realwest  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:41pm

Hey all y'all - just a drive by post sorta, but I posted this earlier this past week and don't know if Charles saw it or not.
Down here in North Carolina, Ben Stein is publicizing the hell out of "Expelled" with very misleading ads - some I suppose as "trailers" from the film. First one shows him asking an "Old Fuddy Duddy" professor who just said something about Evolution "But Professor, how did Life Begin?" Next scene (in the ad at least) shows stein and a young student sitting on a bench outside the Principal's office and the kid asks Ben "Why are you here [at the Principal's Office] and Ben says "I asked a question." fade to black.
I don't hate Ben, but I hope that film doesn't go anywhere at the box office.

303 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:00pm

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Still working on it. Don't tell anyone, but I've been using a rock petrified brian to grind them to a pulp.

304 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:07pm

re: #269 ploome hineni

191 FurryOldGuyJeans


the arabs were illiterate

if the written word was preserved, it was because the arabs/muslims did not know what it was

as it is TODAY, Spain published more books in one year than all the arab countries put together have ever published

/or some such number

* * *
Moslems are all over in Spain today, with their kebab shops & mosques everywhere, partly funded by the socialist liberal government of Zapatero the anti-Bush appeaser.

A Moslem mullah published a book in Spain in 1999 or 2000 on how to beat your wife as Mohammed taught, so the Spanish authorities won't know you're beating your wife.

It's only a matter of time until Sharia makes wife beating the law in Spain.

305 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:08pm

From reading some of the folks here, I'm starting to believe that Jesus really did turn the water into whine

306 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:16pm

re: #279 Charles

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

Oatmeal or a juice mixture, eggs?

/guessing

307 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:41pm

re: #296 TaeJohnDo

/s
JCM, as a Catholic, all I can say regarding your joke is "I'll see you in hell!

Since my grandpa and dad are Baptist preachers, for you I'll change it to Baptist preacher.
;-)

308 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:53pm
309 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:33:05pm

re: #302 realwest

Hey all y'all - just a drive by post sorta, but I posted this earlier this past week and don't know if Charles saw it or not.
Down here in North Carolina, Ben Stein is publicizing the hell out of "Expelled" with very misleading ads - some I suppose as "trailers" from the film. First one shows him asking an "Old Fuddy Duddy" professor who just said something about Evolution "But Professor, how did Life Begin?" Next scene (in the ad at least) shows stein and a young student sitting on a bench outside the Principal's office and the kid asks Ben "Why are you here [at the Principal's Office] and Ben says "I asked a question." fade to black.
I don't hate Ben, but I hope that film doesn't go anywhere at the box office.

It's already flopped at the box office. Now they're trying to get some more suckers to buy the DVD.

310 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:11pm

re: #273 capefear

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

With respect, I'm re-posting this from up-thread. and I'm adding bold hightlighting on a pertinant sentence.

re: #148 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With respect, plenty of us (myself included) have posted our personal beliefs in some sort of extremely-ancient (pre-Big Bang) input by a Deity. We have, at the same time, said that our beliefs (not to mention I.D.) should NOT be taught in science classrooms. We have not been laughed at. I myself do not feel threatened in the slightest by these threads.

311 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:34pm

re: #297 JCM


No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

312 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:53pm
313 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:57pm

re: #293 ploome hineni

Re-reading, your post was more correct than my correction! Sorry about that:
"Spain translates more books in a year than has the Arab world in the past thousand years (since the reign of Caliph Mamoun; Abbasid, caliph 813-833)"

314 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:35:49pm

re: #302 realwest

The movie has already come and gone from theaters and now is getting a fresh life on DVD. The adverts are enough to make me think they were done by the same people who do The One's adverts, hence I have as much interest in seeing Expelled as I did as seeing An Inconvenient Truth. I want entertainment/education, not theology.

315 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:02pm

re: #244 arethusa

It's tops on Drudge. CNN's top story? The Palin-acting-like-a-rogue story.

Shucks. I usually check Drudge every 5 minutes. Missed that. I see that Palen is calling a nation under Obama a "nanny state" LOL Barack the Babysitter.

316 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:06pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

I think you are omitting the 6,000 year/dinosaurs/human aspect perhaps?

317 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:07pm

re: #298 FurryOldGuyJeans


I was repeating things Charles has said to me.

318 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:44pm

re: #291 ploome hineni

*rimshot*

319 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:04pm

re: #307 JCM

Since my grandpa and dad are Baptist preachers, for you I'll change it to Baptist preacher.
;-)

You sir (or ma'am) are a gentleman. Or gentlewoman ... (Political Correctness sucks ...)

320 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:05pm

re: #273 capefear

"these people" !

321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:14pm

re: #296 TaeJohnDo

Gave my pastor a birthday card once, had a picture of six very dour looking priests on it. Had a caption that read... "Five out of six priests agree..."
open the card....
"You are going straight to hell."

I wrote a note..."See you there".

Everytime he saw me for three months he said, "Heh. See you there."

322 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:15pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

So you LIKE abusing children eh?

////

323 realwest  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:38:03pm

re: #309 Charles
Glad to hear it! Uh, I mean that it's flopped at the box office - wonder if they can sell the dvd's as a package set with the dvd's from Rev. Wright's sermons?!?
/

324 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:38:31pm

Well, it's been fun, and informative, as always. But it's time for me to say good night.

Sleep well, Lizards.

And thanks.

cheers

eon

325 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:38:43pm

re: #317 capefear

You are lieing by omission, what's the good book say about that?


/lesson in Christianity from an atheist

326 Syrah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:00pm

Its time to Bring Turtles into this discussion, since we all know that its Turtles all the way down anyway.

Come on people! We can be so happy together if you all just give up this nonsense and think like I do!

327 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:05pm

re: #319 TaeJohnDo

You sir (or ma'am) are a gentleman. Or gentlewoman ... (Political Correctness sucks ...)

* * *
It's gentleperson and don't you forget it! Gender is so...so...conservative.

328 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:07pm

re: #301 Lynn B.


Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

329 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:18pm

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

330 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:40:21pm

re: #325 Thanos


I really have no idea what your talking about.

331 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:40:42pm

re: #328 capefear

Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

Don't be an ass. Ok, well, at least try?

I'm here because I have learned and continue to learn a lot of these threads (among others). If I felt as persecuted and victimized as you seem to, I'd stay away. But that's just me.

332 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:41:24pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

Where does the Biblical account say 6000 years? That number comes from Bishop Ussher who made a number of mistakes in reading the Jewish genealogies.

I suggest you do a little more Bible study, in the original languages you don't need to know Greek and Hebrew just have a Interlinear Bible, a good concordance and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries.

Case in point Yowm translated into "day" in Genesis.

The Bible is primary a spiritual text, not a historical or scientific text.

Finally consider this. I believe in the Creator. I also believe in his creation, and what it shows me about the creator.

333 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:41:42pm

just have a second look at this guy.

I dare you. No I double dog dare you not to laugh

334 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:01pm

re: #330 capefear

I really have no idea what your talking about.

Perhaps you should spend less time attacking Charles, and more time studying the lessons of Jesus.

336 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:28pm

re: #319 TaeJohnDo

You sir (or ma'am) are a gentleman. Or gentlewoman ... (Political Correctness sucks ...)

LOL!

Not me, I'm an equal opportunity offender.

My favorite bumper sticker of all time.....

NUKE ALL THE UNBORN GAY WHALES FOR JESUS

337 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:35pm

re: #329 middlecon

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Allow me.

/here is your hand basket, bon voyage

338 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:40pm

re: #247 Thanos

I'm right there with you. While neo-nazis, scientologists, leftist crystal worshippers, etc. all have the right to teach their children what they want, I don't have to respect them for it either.

Definitely. I don't want to live in a society that would place controls on what I teach to my own (hypothetical) children. But I certainly don't want nutbars of any stripe using the public school system to indoctrinate my kids or yours in their particular brand of nonsense.

339 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:43:12pm

re: #328 capefear

Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

Did you see my:
#310 pre-Boomer Marine brat ?

340 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:43:22pm

re: #329 middlecon

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Well, I certainly haven't done that. I think it's pretty obvious that the creationism hooey is almost exclusively coming from the fanatical religious right.

341 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:08pm

re: #333 Shug

just have a second look at this guy.

I dare you. No I double dog dare you not to laugh

looks like he is fixing to pick up the 7-10 split....with a puny ball

342 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:13pm

re: #328 capefear

Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

I have yet to see Charles say anyone can not teach what they want in the privacy of their own homes, only what can and should be taught in PUBLIC schools as SCIENCE. So your mis-statements here are not earning you anything but contempt by a large segment of the lizards, especially this one.

Why am I here? One reason, amongst many, is to be amused by the righteous indignation of self-anointed martyr complex nutroots.

343 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:27pm
cleavage is simply an expression of planes of weaker bonding in preferred directions.


re: #295 Alberta Oil Peon

Tell that to my girlfriend.

344 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:34pm

re: #334 Sharmuta


You know what on that point your right. I didn't plan on spending a lot of time on here but got sucked in. I just hope I never see the lie that "charles only wants to keep creationism from being taught in school" ever repeated again.

345 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:46pm

re: #329 middlecon

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Huh?!

Who's done that?

346 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:57pm

re: #333 Shug

just have a second look at this guy.

I dare you. No I double dog dare you not to laugh

This is mine brain!

347 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:45:10pm
348 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:45:25pm

re: #333 Shug

Kind of jumped off the page and into our nightmares!

349 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:45:38pm

re: #335 Thanos

Why democrats sometimes get elected in purely red states. Read it and weep.

In reality there are very few 'red states' with some kind of monopoly with absolutely no elected Democrats. Sure creationism could be one reason, I live in a red state but we've had more Democratic governors than Republican and both state houses have been controlled by Democrats for most of the last 15-20 years.

350 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:15pm

re: #327 alegrias

* * *
It's gentleperson and don't you forget it! Gender is so...so...conservative.

You sound like a new age American Episcopalian.

What a great list this is! Baptist, Catholic, Atheist, Episcopalian, Kooks ... coming together to spread the good lizard word!

351 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:24pm

re: #339 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did you see my:
#310 pre-Boomer Marine brat ?

He is doing his best Obama/Biden imitation of ignoring inconvenient questions/comments.

352 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:38pm

re: #341 Outrider

looks like he is fixing to pick up the 7-10 split....with a puny ball

Funniest thing I've read all year

353 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:45pm

Does anyone else wonder if Obama will pick Ray Nagin for Director of FEMA if things go bad on November 4th?

354 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:47:05pm

This idiot was actually on the Kansas State Board of Education: Abrams looking to bring State BOE experience to the Senate.

Abrams calls himself a "young Earth creationist," according to the Religion News Service. The science standards he backed in 1999 raised questions about the theory of evolution and left room for alternative theories on the origin of man, including creationism based on the Bible's book of Genesis, to be taught.

Abrams insists, however, that he never said creationism should be taught.

Working with a creationist group based in Missouri, Abrams helped develop and then submitted to the board their alternative proposal for science standards, a version of which passed after the 1998 elections brought a supportive majority to the board.

The story is told in "Kansas Tornado," a booklet published in 1999 by the Institute for Creation Research.

Gov. Bill Graves, a Republican, strongly opposed the new standards.

Abrams had set out in 1998 to defeat Graves in the GOP primary, but he dropped out after David Miller, the eventual nominee, entered the race. Graves handily defeated Miller, an early leader of the still-active conservative Republican Assembly.

Abrams served as chairman of the state Republican Party for a short period after conservatives took control in 1998.

Although trained in science, Abrams told the Religion News Service he believed God created the Earth in six 24-hour days less than 10,000 years ago. "At some point in time, if you compare evolution and the Bible, you have to decide which one you believe; that's the bottom line," Abrams said in 2005, according to the Kansas City Star.

One has to take Genesis on faith, Abrams said.

355 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:06pm

Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Good grief.

356 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:24pm

re: #344 capefear

It's stunning to see people who claim to believe in the teachings of Jesus engage in such un-Christian behavior such as you're doing right now. I think Christians from all denominations should be appalled how harmful this so-called religious line of thinking is to the faith. Instead of promoting the faith- creationists are driving people from it. I'm sure Jesus is thrilled by that.

357 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:43pm

re: #78 taxfreekiller

Comment #78 is the only illusion in this thread somehow saying that the Dems are going to endorese ID.

I completely agree that Charles has never said this.

358 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:49pm

re: #355 Charles

Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Good grief.

Mmmmm, doesn't that just make it all ok. *BLECH*

359 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:50:12pm
360 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:50:16pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

It's stunning to see people who claim to believe in the teachings of Jesus engage in such un-Christian behavior such as you're doing right now. I think Christians from all denominations should be appalled how harmful this so-called religious line of thinking is to the faith. Instead of promoting the faith- creationists are driving people from it. I'm sure Jesus is thrilled by that.

I guess the 11th Commandment is lie to unbelievers so as to achieve the World-Wide Church.

361 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:50:27pm

Gotta go watch Alabama beat Tennessee now.

Roll tide!

362 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:04pm

re: #355 Charles

Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Good grief.

Just another reason for republican Lizards to get involved in the party at the local level. That's where it all starts. Because reasonable republicans don't take the time to work within the party, people like this Abrams guy are allowed to advance to embarrassing heights.

363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:12pm

re: #361 TaeJohnDo

War Eagle!

364 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:19pm

re: #351 FurryOldGuyJeans

He is doing his best Obama/Biden imitation of ignoring inconvenient questions/comments.

(-:

365 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:56pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

It's stunning to see people who claim to believe in the teachings of Jesus engage in such un-Christian behavior such as you're doing right now. I think Christians from all denominations should be appalled how harmful this so-called religious line of thinking is to the faith. Instead of promoting the faith- creationists are driving people from it. I'm sure Jesus is thrilled by that.

WWJD a motto to live by.

BTW as Christian I loathe that.

366 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:52:13pm

re: #332 JCM

Where does the Biblical account say 6000 years? That number comes from Bishop Ussher who made a number of mistakes in reading the Jewish genealogies.

I suggest you do a little more Bible study, in the original languages you don't need to know Greek and Hebrew just have a Interlinear Bible, a good concordance and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries.

Case in point Yowm translated into "day" in Genesis.

The Bible is primary a spiritual text, not a historical or scientific text.

Finally consider this. I believe in the Creator. I also believe in his creation, and what it shows me about the creator.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

367 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:52:20pm

re: #360 FurryOldGuyJeans

I guess the 11th Commandment is lie to unbelievers so as to achieve the World-Wide Church.

I'm sure some will be offended by the suggestion that it's vaguely reminiscent of another religion.

368 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:52:21pm

re: #363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

War Eagle!

I'll pray for your soul. ;p)

369 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:53:41pm

Finally just what the creationists need.

A rock hard brain to co-ordinate with their thick skulls.

370 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:53:58pm

re: #365 JCM

WWJD a motto to live by.

BTW as Christian I loathe that.

I had to really scratch my head about what WWJD stood for before it became "obvious". I had a flash of World Wide JihaD, d'oh! ;)

371 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:02pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

This his quote:

I'm not ashamed at all to say that I have no respect for the ideology of creationism. And if you teach your children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and dinosaurs were around at the same time as people, and that scientists are evil atheistic monsters trying to destroy your religion -- yes, I do indeed consider that a form of child abuse. You're taking a young mind and indoctrinating it to reject science, and that's simply wrong.

A bit of difference in wording--and meaning.

372 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:17pm

Why is it called dark energy/dark matter?

373 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:38pm

re: #350 TaeJohnDo

You sound like a new age American Episcopalian.

What a great list this is! Baptist, Catholic, Atheist, Episcopalian, Kooks ... coming together to spread the good lizard word!

You have no idea how right you are or how poignant your comment is to me. I am an orthodox Episcopalian, and I am appalled by the direction of The Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Pittsburgh has voted to realign with the more traditional Anglican Southern Cone, but my parish church is more disposed to stay in TEC. It's very painful to me because I feel very strongly spiritually that realignment is the correct choice, but my parish is like family to me. It's a very difficult time for me,

374 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:40pm
375 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:55:25pm

re: #343 Attaboid

Tell that to my girlfriend.

I'm gonna need pictures...

376 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:55:26pm

re: #367 Sharmuta

I'm sure some will be offended by the suggestion that it's vaguely reminiscent of another religion.

That kinda was my intent. Afflict the comfortable and self-anointed righteous.

377 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:56:20pm

re: #363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

War Eagle!

My son goes to Alabama -- got a full scholarship, so I support the team.

UNM Lobos -- 1981
USC Trojans -- 1989
SIUE Cougars -- 1995

But you can't beat SEC football. The best!

378 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:56:24pm

re: #374 MandyManners

Tttthhhhhhppppppppppptttt.

{MandyMannes}

Be sure to check your email...

379 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:57:22pm

re: #366 Lynn B.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

Bring Einsteins laws of relativity into the timeframe given for the worlds existance and it is INHERANTLY POSSIBLE that for a being that existed outside the contextual framework of the single Earth gravitational environ that when we are talking about gods creation of the world, it may be possible to envision a larger timescale being implemented in a shorter timeframe.

Summing up nicely, Gods time aint ours.

380 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:57:47pm

"What would Jesus do?"

Often people jump to the conclusion that Jesus would just schlep off somewhere to a corner and sing kumbaya.

If you read the life of Jesus you see that He was very direct and often confrontational. Being one of His followers, I have never felt it was my obligation to always go along to get along.

I raised my children according to my beliefs, which include the innerrancy of the Word of God. I stand on that and am not ashamed or embarassed by it.

381 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:58:22pm

re: #372 Attaboid

Why is it called dark energy/dark matter?

Dark Matter, Dark Energy.

382 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:58:31pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

[Link: babybluecafe.blogspot.com...]

I stumbled on the above site a few years ago and follow the saga. My prayers go out to you.

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:58:33pm

re: #377 TaeJohnDo

Actually, I'm an ACC guy. Was just being cantankerous.

384 legalpad  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:59:10pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

I was raised Episcopalian. My Uncle was a Bishop and a great guy. But wow, down here they are very left and very political. My own faith has been through many iterations.

385 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:59:36pm

re: #378 goddessoftheclassroom

I will do so post haste.

BTW, Alabama 3, Tenn 0.

386 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:59:40pm

re: #366 Lynn B.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

There is a consistently, while not exact to the Biblical expulsion from garden and the curse to till the earth and the development of agriculture in Mesopotamia.

It's not exact, doesn't prove a thing, but is consistent and could be explained a number of ways.

387 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:00:28pm

re: #376 FurryOldGuyJeans

That kinda was my intent. Afflict the comfortable and self-anointed righteous.

BTW, did you ever read The Gospel According to Peanuts by Robert L. Short? Great book about the VERY EARLY Peanuts strips. He compares Snoopy to the Hound of Heaven.

388 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:00:40pm

re: #370 FurryOldGuyJeans

I had to really scratch my head about what WWJD stood for before it became "obvious". I had a flash of World Wide JihaD, d'oh! ;)

LOL! It's quite popular in Christian circles.

389 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:00:59pm

re: #378 goddessoftheclassroom

Yo.

390 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:16pm

re: #382 TaeJohnDo

[Link: babybluecafe.blogspot.com...]

I stumbled on the above site a few years ago and follow the saga. My prayers go out to you.

Thank you so much, both for the link and for your prayers.

391 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:16pm

re: #372 Attaboid

Why is it called dark energy/dark matter?

Racist!

/ ;-P

392 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:28pm

re: #379 Buster Bunny

Summing up nicely, Gods time aint ours.

Exactly!

393 pat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:29pm

In another sign of the financial meltdown, McDonald's has delayed the release of its 1/3 pound Angus burger. With Obama in office, it is unlikely we ever shall. Obama already feels we eat too much.
[Link: www.upi.com...]

Or perhaps that is just white folks. Hard to tell with the Messiah.

394 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:02:43pm

re: #385 TaeJohnDo

I will do so post haste.

BTW, Alabama 3, Tenn 0.

Bama just fumbled at the 5.

Damn. But you are happy so my work here is done.

(Damn! Damn! Damn!)

395 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:02:56pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

{gotc}

It's like another divorce.

396 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:27pm
397 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:32pm

Yep, the Randall Terry crowd in charge of the Republican party in KS is why I have Dennis Moore -D as a congresscritter.

398 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:42pm

re: #393 pat

In another sign of the financial meltdown, McDonald's has delayed the release of its 1/3 pound Angus burger. With Obama in office, it is unlikely we ever shall. Obama already feels we eat too much.
[Link: www.upi.com...]

Or perhaps that is just white folks. Hard to tell with the Messiah.

The Messiah has a goal when it comes to individual food consumption.

399 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:43pm

re: #390 goddessoftheclassroom

Thank you so much, both for the link and for your prayers.

You are most welcome. I don't post too often there -- but if you see one from Anonymous Catholic, that's most likely me.

400 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:05:14pm

re: #396 taxfreekiller

the religious right will not roll over for the commie way,

you got that right, tfk

401 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:06:29pm

Heard an ad for A&W burgers. They now have an "Uncle Burger".
?Hello Tom!

402 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:06:47pm

re: #393 pat

In another sign of the financial meltdown, McDonald's has delayed the release of its 1/3 pound Angus burger. With Obama in office, it is unlikely we ever shall. Obama already feels we eat too much.
[Link: www.upi.com...]

Or perhaps that is just white folks. Hard to tell with the Messiah.

Try the new McObama

No meat, full of waffle
Spreads the fat around and exists on a stale bun.
Lettuce and Sauce is extra.

But is nice for a 'Change'

403 Gorgon Zola  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:07:25pm

re: #279 Charles

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

Papaya?

404 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:08:22pm

Barney Frank tells us how he plans to pay for all of Obama's new government programs:

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said Democrats will push for a stimulus package after the November election, and called for a package reducing defense spending by 25 percent while saying Congress will "eventually" raise taxes.


Another brick in the wall on why they need to be beaten.

405 Syrah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:08:43pm

re: #381 FurryOldGuyJeans

Dark Matter, Dark Energy.

So speaking then about dark energy and the accelerating rate of expansion of the universe, we can visualize it as a type of anti-gravity.

With gravity, on object will fall into the well at an an accelerating rate. With anti-gravity, on object would likewise then fall out of the well at an accelerating rate.

When you have a spinning disk, and you drop a marble into the center of the disk, it moves slowly at first to the outer edge, rapidly (exponentially?) increasing its speed towards the edge the further from the center that it gets.

Am I stumbling in the right direction?

406 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:09:25pm

Did capefear run away?

Yeesh, ask a reasonable question.......

407 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:09:30pm
408 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:09:31pm

re: #404 JCM

reducing defense spending by 25 percent

That's our troops folks.

They are going to weaken us militarily, economically and socially.

409 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:10:18pm

re: #408 mama winger

That's our troops folks.

They are going to weaken us militarily, economically and socially.

Speaking of troops...
How's little winger?

410 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:10:30pm

re: #277 JCM

No prayers for the damned I guess....
How very Christian.

no sarc.

The damned have forsaken themselves. They have willingly separated themselves from God's love.

/Do you think they should have indefinite appeals?

411 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:11:12pm

re: #279 Charles

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

(It's far enough down-thread, and that discussion's died, so I'll throw this guess in.)

Cold anchovy/pineapple pizza

412 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:12:11pm

re: #406 JCM

Did capefear run away?

Yeesh, ask a reasonable question.......

Was more interested in feeling persecuted.

413 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:12:13pm

re: #409 JCM

Speaking of troops...
How's little winger?

I am hoping I don't get a call from the FBI tonight. We spent the afternoon in the garage make Halloween costumes. (Think militant islam. Think KABOOM )

I think a couple of neighbors spotted us and may have placed a call.......

414 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:12:27pm

re: #411 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You can't get anchovies on a pizza on the left coast anymore. Hell, it was even hard to find in Chicago.

415 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:13:19pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

You can't get anchovies on a pizza on the left coast anymore. Hell, it was even hard to find in Chicago.

Western Civilization is collapsing!

416 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:13:57pm

re: #411 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(It's far enough down-thread, and that discussion's died, so I'll throw this guess in.)

Cold anchovy
/pineapple pizza


You're a friggin genius!

417 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:14:08pm

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

418 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:14:55pm
419 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:20pm

re: #417 mama winger

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

So now you can watch SEC football on ESPN!

420 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:23pm

re: #416 HoosierHoops

Cold anchovy/pineapple pizza

You're a friggin genius!

OH NO YOU DON'T!

421 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:25pm

re: #417 mama winger

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

This is good for me...I can watch Penn State/Ohio State without having to switch back and forth all the time lol

422 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:37pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

Anchovies? Blech!

423 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:38pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

You have no idea how right you are or how poignant your comment is to me. I am an orthodox Episcopalian, and I am appalled by the direction of The Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Pittsburgh has voted to realign with the more traditional Anglican Southern Cone, but my parish church is more disposed to stay in TEC. It's very painful to me because I feel very strongly spiritually that realignment is the correct choice, but my parish is like family to me. It's a very difficult time for me,

I am an Orthodox, formerly Episcopalian who saw the writing on the wall twenty years ago. So I left.

424 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:44pm

re: #418 taxfreekiller

'Revenge' is a godd choice of words, tfk. I think there will be a lot of that going around, if the worst happens and O is elected.

425 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:00pm

re: #410 experiencedtraveller

The damned have forsaken themselves. They have willingly separated themselves from God's love.

/Do you think they should have indefinite appeals?

The Prodigal Son.

426 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:15pm

re: #413 mama winger

I am hoping I don't get a call from the FBI tonight. We spent the afternoon in the garage make Halloween costumes. (Think militant islam. Think KABOOM )

I think a couple of neighbors spotted us and may have placed a call.......

Some people don't find that funny.

427 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:37pm