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Creation Scientists Display Fabulous Find - Update: The Discovery Institute's Next Scheme

Science | Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 3:04:30 pm PDT

Ever wonder what goes on at a creationist convention? Here’s a look at a recent convention featuring two of the most well-known creationist groups, Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research: Petrified Human Brain.

Note: this isn’t just any old petrified human brain. It’s a fossil of irreducibly complex organ! Take that, Darwinian evolutionists!

Science!

UPDATE at 10/25/08 3:25:54 pm:

And in a related subject: Creationists declare war over the brain.

No, they don’t mean the petrified human brain. The Discovery Institute’s next plot is to hijack neuroscience, in their ceaseless attempts to debase science education in the US.

“YOU cannot overestimate,” thundered psychiatrist Jeffrey Schwartz, “how threatened the scientific establishment is by the fact that it now looks like the materialist paradigm is genuinely breaking down. You’re gonna hear a lot in the next calendar year about... how Darwin’s explanation of how human intelligence arose is the only scientific way of doing it... I’m asking us as a world community to go out there and tell the scientific establishment, enough is enough! Materialism needs to start fading away and non-materialist causation needs to be understood as part of natural reality.”

His enthusiasm was met with much applause from the audience gathered at the UN’s east Manhattan conference hall on 11 September for an international symposium called Beyond the Mind-Body Problem: New Paradigms in the Science of Consciousness. Earlier Mario Beauregard, a researcher in neuroscience at the University of Montreal, Canada, and co-author of The Spiritual Brain: A neuroscientist’s case for the existence of the soul, told the audience that the “battle” between “maverick” scientists like himself and those who “believe the mind is what the brain does” is a “cultural war”.

Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing “non-material neuroscience” movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul. The two have signed the “Scientific dissent from Darwinism” petition, spearheaded by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, headquarters of the intelligent design movement. ID argues that biological life is too complex to have arisen through evolution.

In August, the Discovery Institute ran its 2008 Insider’s Briefing on Intelligent Design, at which Schwartz and Michael Egnor, a neurosurgeon at Stony Brook University in New York, were invited to speak. When two of the five main speakers at an ID meeting are neuroscientists, something is up. Could the next battleground in the ID movement’s war on science be the brain?

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1166 comments

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1 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:05:32pm

another human footprint covered by a dino?
/

2 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:05:37pm

They found my ex-husband?

3 snowcrash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:07:37pm

re: #1 Outrider
Nope, genuine petrified human brain LOL

4 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:07:57pm

If a tree fell in a petrified forest ...

5 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:08:30pm
Dr. Scripture took this image while at the Chattanooga Choo Choo. This area is still unexplained. It gives the appearance of bleeding when rehydrated with just water. Better closeup images on the "Blood Supply" page.

It has been looked at many times and everytime, it appears bloody when wet. It is proven to not magnify, but actually swell, and stay that way for a couple of days, yet is very hard, like cryptocrystalline silica.

Dr. Suzanne Vincent confirmed the possibility of this being petrified blood.


Oh my. Is she a real doctor or does she have a Doctorate in Stupid?

6 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:08:41pm
The following pages are intended for scientific research and evaluation of a soft tissue fossil, which is a human petrified brain.

/what's wrong with this sentence?

7 Islamophobic Warmongering Infidel  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:09:11pm

re: #2 MandyManners

They found my ex-husband?

No silly.....it was my ex wife.

8 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:09:38pm
Dr. Scripture took this image while at the Chattanooga Choo Choo. This area is still unexplained. It gives the appearance of bleeding when rehydrated with just water. Better closeup images on the "Blood Supply" page.

It has been looked at many times and everytime, it appears bloody when wet. It is proven to not magnify, but actually swell, and stay that way for a couple of days, yet is very hard, like cryptocrystalline silica.

Dr. Suzanne Vincent confirmed the possibility of this being petrified blood.


Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

9 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:02pm

re: #5 Outrider

Heh, I noticed the same thing.

10 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:14pm

A mind is a terrible thing to waste

(so hold on to it for a while )

11 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:25pm

Has ACORN registered it to vote yet?

12 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:10:26pm
13 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:11:00pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!


and it bleeds! And just in time for Halloween!

14 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:01pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

But it's an irreducibly complex rock!

15 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:01pm

re: #10 Shug

A mind is a terrible thing to waste

(so hold on to it for a while )

Like....6,000 years is it? Can something petrify in the time they say humans have been here?

16 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:51pm

Who has the paper and scisssors?

17 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:12:55pm
18 guzziguy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:13:02pm

Okay, I scanned the linked page and thought that's a pretty interesting rock, until I saw the close-up. Uhh, no. I don't think so. Pretty standard, if oddly shaped piece of silica based rock it would seem to me.

19 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:13:48pm

re: #14 Charles

But it's an irreducibly complex rock!

They all are. Well except for granite. And we all know granites are very simple minded.
/channeling Gary Larsen

20 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:14:17pm

re: #5 Outrider

Oh my. Is she a real doctor or does she have a Doctorate in Stupid?

She's a "neuro anatomy professor" at Oral Roberts University.

21 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:14:20pm
22 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:14:42pm

re: #17 taxfreekiller

No one should turn their eyes from the crime the Democrats now use to put this full raging commie into office.

Your freedom is being cut from your body as you sleep.

Wake up and fight back, without freedom nothing matters.

By the same people that are farming kidneys as people sleep in hotel rooms after getting drunk with hookers in foreign cities?

/sorry.

23 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:07pm

I can't find a link to data on WHERE this thing was found.
Has anyone else found such a page?

24 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:07pm

Constipated Dinosaur Chip ?

25 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:11pm

re: #20 Charles

She's a "neuro anatomy professor" at Oral Roberts University.


oh Great, here we go again.....

26 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:29pm
27 cargocultist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:15:31pm
28 Colonel Panik  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:11pm

IDana Jones and the Petrified Brain.

29 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:20pm

Color me confused but in all the verbiage on that webpage (which is so horribly designed as to look like it was laid-out by a microencephalic gibbon monkey with cataracts) give not a hint as to where this "marvel" was found or any other scientifically verifiable tidbit of information on the "brain". The entire blather sounds like a very bad sermon.

30 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:30pm

I would love to put that on the front porch with a candle in it!

31 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:16:31pm

re: #20 Charles

She's a "neuro anatomy professor" at Oral Roberts University.

Now my brain hurts after reading this

Neuroanatomy is the science for localizing function in the human brain. Imaging and experimental research provide the neuroscientist and clinician with the means to elucidate regions that act to produce different neurological and cognitive effects. Our functional neuroanatomical understanding is furthered through the study of the effects of lesions and pathological changes in brain structure that alter brain function. Our understanding of nervous system anatomical localization can be described at the level of neural circuitry with high resolution.

32 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:17:14pm

Worlds largest dung beetle Casa ?

33 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:17:46pm

Oral Roberts Profs
Like their brains petrified
Easier to fool

34 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:17:59pm

re: #29 FurryOldGuyJeans

Color me confused but in all the verbiage on that webpage (which is so horribly designed as to look like it was laid-out by a microencephalic gibbon monkey with cataracts) give not a hint as to where this "marvel" was found or any other scientifically verifiable tidbit of information on the "brain". The entire blather sounds like a very bad sermon.

That was a rather horribly laid out web page wasn't it? Represents muddled thought.

35 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:04pm

re: #16 MandyManners

Who has the paper and scisssors?

BAWAHAHAHA! I can't stop laughing....thanks, Mandy. :)

36 Tamron  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:34pm

re: #3 snowcrash

Nope, genuine petrified human brain LOL


What's so unique about that?
.

37 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:54pm

re: #29 FurryOldGuyJeans

Color me confused but in all the verbiage on that webpage (which is so horribly designed as to look like it was laid-out by a microencephalic gibbon monkey with cataracts) give not a hint as to where this "marvel" was found or any other scientifically verifiable tidbit of information on the "brain". The entire blather sounds like a very bad sermon.

From No. 28: The bizarre rock, owned by Larry and Debbie Skelf, was just a sentimental token until about two years ago when research began on it.
“It was given to my mother, Eddie Mae Hodge, by uncle Luther Hodge, in Tullahoma Tennessee, forty years ago. Since mom passed away in 1986, I just called it my pretty brain rock. Since then, we often used it as part of different ornamentations” Debbie states.

38 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:18:55pm

re: #33 Shug

Oral Roberts Profs
Like their brains petrified
Easier to fool


Haiku take two


Oral Roberts Profs
They like their brains petrified
Easier to fool

39 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:04pm

Hot the hell does a brain get petrified?

never mind--

40 guzziguy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:21pm

re: #36 Tamron

What's so unique about that?
.

It's voted democrat in every election since it became an adult.

41 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:34pm

Didn't their moms teach them not to play with things from the toilet ?

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:50pm

re: #37 MandyManners

From No. 28: The bizarre rock, owned by Larry and Debbie Skelf, was just a sentimental token until about two years ago when research began on it.
“It was given to my mother, Eddie Mae Hodge, by uncle Luther Hodge, in Tullahoma Tennessee, forty years ago. Since mom passed away in 1986, I just called it my pretty brain rock. Since then, we often used it as part of different ornamentations” Debbie states.

Is that the ONLY info regarding its history?

43 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:51pm

Sorry. It just looks like a big-as*ed Geode to me.

i say pop that baby open and see if there is any liquid in there.

44 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:19:56pm

re: #39 ibmkeyboard

Hot the hell does a brain get petrified?

never mind--

Well, I've been stoned.

45 Tamron  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:01pm

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

If a tree fell in a petrified forest ...


If a petrified brain fell from a tree in a petrified forest, would there be any dinosaurs around to hear it plop?
.

46 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:02pm

how, how,
shit

47 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:08pm

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain

Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing "non-material neuroscience" movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul. The two have signed the "Scientific dissent from Darwinism" petition, spearheaded by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, headquarters of the intelligent design movement. ID argues that biological life is too complex to have arisen through evolution.

48 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:13pm

re: #42 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Is that the ONLY info regarding its history?

Beats me.

49 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:20:35pm

re: #31 Outrider

MRI the hell outta that rock.

50 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:00pm

re: #44 MandyManners

Well, I've been stoned.

no wonder the wife says I have rocks in my head?

YO

51 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:09pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain


Why are they trying to shove science into the soul?

52 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:15pm

re: #49 debutaunt

MRI the hell outta that rock.

Is that even possible? I honestly don't know.

53 notutopia  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:20pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

BAWAHAHAHA! fell out of my chair too on this one!

54 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:45pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

Others have a rock and think it's god...

55 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:51pm
56 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:21:52pm

re: #45 Tamron

If a petrified brain fell from a tree in a petrified forest, would there be any dinosaurs around to hear it plop?
.

ha

57 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:14pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain

Uh, sorry...No brain, no mind.

58 snowcrash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:23pm

re: #27 cargocultist
Good link. Cargo cult science and you, a cargo cultist.

59 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:23pm

The language on that site make my head hurt.

"Empirical, unbiased science requires the acceptance of reality in admission that speculation no longer exists."

Well that settles it, I guess.

60 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:24pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Semi OT: Creationists declare war over the brain

How did you know I was reading that article? Seems like a perfect one for an update.

61 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:22:40pm

re: #54 experiencedtraveller

Others have a rock and think it's god...

Excellent.

62 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:05pm

re: #51 MandyManners

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

63 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:19pm

re: #34 Outrider

That was a rather horribly laid out web page wasn't it? Represents muddled thought.

Muddled would have been done with Frontpage. This was done with crayons and a 20 pound sledge.

I am used to webpages looking less than stellar in Firefox (2.0.0.17), but this page actually looks worse when viewed in IE. Now THAT takes some serious layout design disconnect.

64 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:38pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Beats me.

Huh.
I call total, utter and absolute bullshit ON THESE PEOPLE'S MOTIVES.

/the only interesting part is that something's FINALLY beating on Mandy.
*running like hell*

65 ted  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:23:48pm

re: #49 debutaunt

MRI the hell outta that rock.

You will only find undigested seeds and nuts.

66 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:06pm

re: #60 Charles

How did you know I was reading that article? Seems like a perfect one for an update.

these frigging people have rocks in their heads.

67 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:12pm

re: #54 experiencedtraveller

For Those About To Rock

68 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:33pm

re: #31 Outrider

Neuroanatomy is the science for localizing function in the human brain. Imaging and experimental research provide the neuroscientist and clinician with the means to elucidate regions that act to produce different neurological and cognitive effects. Our functional neuroanatomical understanding is furthered through the study of the effects of lesions and pathological changes in brain structure that alter brain function. Our understanding of nervous system anatomical localization can be described at the level of neural circuitry with high resolution.

The Holy Grail of brain research. Whoever finally gets it will be famous.

/graduate level in experimental psychology

69 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:54pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

Wow. What is this guy? Does he make any sense to you?

70 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:24:58pm

re: #60 Charles

Heh, I put it in the spinoffs a few days ago. It's been in circulation this week.

71 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:25:09pm

re: #65 ted

You will only find undigested seeds and nuts.

hahahhahaahhahaahahaha

72 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:25:22pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

That is some serious crazy.

73 Barking Pumpkin  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:25:32pm

These people have rocks in their heads.

74 pat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:09pm

Wonder if Harry Reid knows they have found his brain?

75 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:34pm

re: #69 Outrider

NO God mentality can Know my 4 Day Cube.
No Bible Word equals my TimeCubed Earth.
How Stupid - Pay to worship Queer as a God.
Mom and Dad created you as a Trinity, the
Mirror of opposite brain meld into "We" Ego.
Your body is of their Creation, honor "We".

Dr. Gene Ray, Cubic and King of Genius.


What part don't you understand?

76 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:34pm

re: #60 Charles

How did you know I was reading that article? Seems like a perfect one for an update.

I'd like to suggest a title for the update -- "immaterial neuro-seance".

77 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:26:54pm

re: #37 MandyManners

From No. 28: The bizarre rock, owned by Larry and Debbie Skelf, was just a sentimental token until about two years ago when research began on it.
“It was given to my mother, Eddie Mae Hodge, by uncle Luther Hodge, in Tullahoma Tennessee, forty years ago. Since mom passed away in 1986, I just called it my pretty brain rock. Since then, we often used it as part of different ornamentations” Debbie states.

The layout of the page was so horrible that my eyes started to abandon ship. Thanks for the nudge, Mandy.

Ahhh, so there is no chain of custody on the thing, so really there is no verifiable way to analyze the fool thing except through the scientific auspices of Creationism. I am not surprised.

78 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:03pm
79 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:33pm

re: #61 Outrider

Excellent.

re: #74 pat

Wonder if Harry Reid knows they have found his brain?

John Murtha?

80 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:49pm

re: #79 ibmkeyboard

John Murtha?

Joe Plugs

81 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:27:56pm

If that's supposed to be a brain, human or otherwise, I'm not seeing a lot of the structures I should be. I'm seeing no lobal distinction, no Fissure of Rolando, no longitudinal fissure (what separates the brain into right and left hemispheres), no stem, no medullar mass.....

Oh the h**l with it. It's a rock. Period.

/BTW, I'm going by the 1974 Running Press edition of Gray's Anatomy, here. (pp. 639-658.)

If this is what they think a "modern" brain looks like, they obviously flunked Anatomy- if, indeed, they ever actually took it.

cheers

eon

82 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:28:34pm

re: #39 ibmkeyboard

Hot the hell does a brain get petrified?

never mind--

For a start, vote obama ...

83 calvinista  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:26pm

I looked at the link. Wow, that sure proves, well, I'm not sure what.

84 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:28pm

Good thing there weren't any petrified zombies at that conference.

85 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:41pm

Mmmm, they could have at least run the spellchecker before publishing this farfetched stuff. The scan comparisons are an outright embarrassment.
I note by the way that neither AiG nor ICR endorses this claim.

86 Jimash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:43pm

Well, that's a few minutes I will not get back.
I'm not sure whether it is more stupid or disgusting.
I mean, it bleeds. feh.

87 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:29:54pm

Even if it IS a brain ... WTF does it PROVE?

These people are masturbating their egos.

88 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:30:09pm

re: #83 calvinista

I looked at the link. Wow, that sure proves, well, I'm not sure what.

Some people should not be allowed within 20 feet of a computer, especially if it has an internet connection?

89 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:30:47pm

Ok, this is satire. Right? Seriously. It can't be for real.

90 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:30:53pm

re: #85 ebed_melech

Mmmm, they could have at least run the spellchecker before publishing this farfetched stuff. The scan comparisons are an outright embarrassment.
I note by the way that neither AiG nor ICR endorses this claim.

No, they just endorse all sorts of other ludicrous claims.

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:06pm

Aw Geez....

(did that sound like Archie Bunker? That's what I intended for it to sound like.)

92 Macker  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:13pm

re: #2 MandyManners

They found my ex-husband?

No, they found my ex-wife!

93 freeus  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:32pm

re: #2 MandyManners

LMAO! Well, if it was not yours, it HAS to be mine! I scared the cat howling with laughter on this one! Thanks for the laugh!

94 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:38pm

re: #87 pre-Boomer Marine brat

"The scientific community has begun to realize the boundaries for circumstancial evidence have been breached."

Game over, man!

95 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:31:48pm

re: #90 Charles

No, they just endorse all sorts of other ludicrous claims.

Gotta love that Ol' Time Religion thinking.

/// 7th century religious thinking, that is.

96 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:32:32pm
97 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:33:37pm
Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing “non-material neuroscience” movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul.


as I read this I am imagining the pot smoking scene from Animal House

98 ssawtell  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:33:47pm

oh man, that is priceless.
"Dr. Shipley, 'It is scientifically impossible for this to not be a brain.'"
where do these people come from?

99 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:33:53pm
100 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:03pm

At least this bleeding petrified "brain" shows more sense than the dimwits captivated by this crustal matter.

101 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:10pm

re: #94 jaunte

"The scientific community has begun to realize the boundaries for circumstancial evidence have been breached."

Yes, this is definitely a ... cough ... breach event.

102 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:22pm

Wow! That is so cool, someone found Joe Biden's brain!

103 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:32pm

re: #11 abolitionist

Has ACORN registered it to vote yet?

No, but it did make a several donations to the Obama campaign!

104 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:34:52pm

re: #55 taxfreekiller

Democrats are now within the grasp of true evil.

Days away, only days away from a true evil man and forces of great evil gaining control over all aspects of your lives.

There it is, right before you now, you can not deny it, your hearts know it, hell the stock market is running for its very life knowing the possibility is there, any one with half a brain and survival instincts knows what is next.

What will you do America?

I'm learning how to make a "hobo stove" out of an Altoids Curiously Fruity Candy tin, some fiberglass insulation, and a wire clothes hanger, plus a finishing nail, tack hammer, and a bottle of either denatured alcohol or Everclear. (The booze, not the window cleaner or the rock band.)

Just in case.

cheers

eon

105 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:35:06pm

re: #102 CapeCoddah

Wow! That is so cool, someone found Joe Biden's brain!

Too bad it wasn't Spock's brain.

106 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:35:29pm

These people are dumber than the rock they hold in their hands.

107 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:35:37pm

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:03pm

re: #104 eon

Are you McGuiver?

109 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:11pm

You know, if the economy does turn to total shit and we go down a socialist path, we need to develop a Lizardoid Institute to do bogus research and get grant money via earmarks for it.

What should we "study?" I think stacked turtle cosmology is a winner - we can say "Even Stephen Hawking has written on it!"

110 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:19pm

re: #107 Charles

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

Why would they turn it down? Money is money, the source doesn't matter.

111 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:21pm

Iowahawk should do some dumpster-diving. Maybe they hooked an EEG up to this thing.

112 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:36:50pm

re: #82 TaeJohnDo

For a start, vote obama ...

My bad, I thought it said putrified....

113 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:06pm

re: #107 Charles

What address? It needs a good address.

Gaza?

114 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:29pm

re: #107 Charles

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

Purely as an experiment, I assume.

115 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:34pm
116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:55pm

My brain is petrified every time I hear someone say "President Obama".

117 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:37:57pm

re: #84 Charles

Good thing there weren't any petrified zombies at that conference.

Mmmmm...crunchy.

118 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:38:08pm

re: #111 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Iowahawk should do some dumpster-diving. Maybe they hooked an EEG up to this thing.

They should first try the folks trying to push this "brain" as something scientifically relevant. But then flatline on the machine would be something expected with this Nobel crowd.

119 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:38:21pm

re: #107 Charles

Someone should see if the Obama web site will accept a donation from "Petrified H. Brain."

/Abby Normal

120 wildcat84  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:38:49pm

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

121 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:00pm

re: #112 TaeJohnDo

Petrified, putrefied, falsified... all work.

122 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:12pm

re: #113 karmic_inquisitor

What address? It needs a good address.

Gaza?

323 Cobblestone Lane Bedrock, Wyoming

123 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:30pm

re: #119 Killian Bundy

/Abby Normal

Beat me to it.

124 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:39:51pm

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you McGuiver?

Not MacGuyver, but we had one power failure here due to Ike and I got sort of tired of peanut butter and crackers.

If The One wins, I'm looking for the country to start looking a lot like CA under "Grayout" Davis.

cheers

eon

125 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:40:11pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Unnecessarily mean.

126 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:40:32pm

re: #54 experiencedtraveller

Others have a rock and think it's god...

I have pet rocks....(not really)
[Link: pigeonbeaks.com...]

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:40:54pm

re: #124 eon

Oh. That's how you spell MacGuyver.

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:00pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

You might want to take that stick out of your ass. LGF is an anti-idiotarian blog, exposing the kooks of all stripes.

129 snowcrash  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:09pm

re: #122 MandyManners
0 Intellectual Drive (Can you use zero?)

130 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:29pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Naw, Charles might delete your comment because you are trying to tell him what not to post on his blog, but he doesn't allow accomodate account suicide.

131 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:39pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

They are expanding their attack on other branches of science. I can't wait until they turn on math too. Time Cube rules!

Oh, man. That guy has stone for brains.

132 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:51pm

re: #129 snowcrash

0 Intellectual Drive (Can you use zero?)

Would it even exist?

133 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:41:53pm
Schwartz and Beauregard are part of a growing “non-material neuroscience” movement. They are attempting to resurrect Cartesian dualism - the idea that brain and mind are two fundamentally different kinds of things, material and immaterial - in the hope that it will make room in science both for supernatural forces and for a soul.


Make no mistake about it; This is exactly how the Muslim world destroyed itself in about the 11th century. They rejected all philosophy and science that didn't account for the supernatural greatness of Allah. It is no different and the end result will be exactly the same.

134 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:08pm

re: #109 karmic_inquisitor

You know, if the economy does turn to total shit and we go down a socialist path, we need to develop a Lizardoid Institute to do bogus research and get grant money via earmarks for it.

What should we "study?" I think stacked turtle cosmology is a winner - we can say "Even Stephen Hawking has written on it!"

I have enough books on UFOs and Ancient Astronauts to keep us in grant proposals until at least 2012.

/according to the Mayans, the world is supposed to end then, anyway ;-P

cheers

eon

135 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:16pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Said here again and again is that you can believe in creation and evolution.

The mental gymnastics that the ID crowd goes through to say otherwise is both laughable but also sets up a false binary choice which divides people who are of faith who actually subscribe to the scientific method.

136 irongrampa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:26pm

So that's a petrified brain? Huh--I got a back field looks to be full of them.

137 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:36pm

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. That's how you spell MacGuyver.

Actually, it is MacGyver. :)

138 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:42:41pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

But this time the Chinese will be on the moon.

139 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:04pm

There's also some mention of a bullet injury ([Link: www.petrifiedhumanbrain.com...] 2/3 down) - now where did that come from?

Oh dear.

140 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:08pm

re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My brain is petrified every time I hear someone say "President Obama".

I don't think anyone has punned on "rock" and Obama's first name yet on this thread.

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:27pm

re: #137 FurryOldGuyJeans

So, the spelling has...evolved?

142 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:28pm
143 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:30pm

re: #134 eon

I have enough books on UFOs and Ancient Astronauts to keep us in grant proposals until at least 2012.

/according to the Mayans, the world is supposed to end then, anyway ;-P

cheers

eon

And if it does end then, I predict they will blame ... George Bush!

144 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:43:55pm

re: #139 ebed_melech

"Young Earth Guns."

145 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:03pm

re: #122 MandyManners

323 Cobblestone Lane Bedrock, Wyoming

Worked.

146 ssawtell  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:11pm

re: #120 wildcat84

well, people come here, in part, to be entertained. if this stuff wasn't so damn funny it wouldn't be featured. there's nothing elitist about applying the same reason and rationality to religious claims that we apply to everything else...

147 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:16pm

re: #128 FurryOldGuyJeans

You might want to take that stick out of your ass. LGF is an anti-idiotarian blog, exposing the kooks of all stripes.

Which is why we'll never run out of targets...

cheers

eon

148 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:26pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

With respect, plenty of us (myself included) have posted our personal beliefs in some sort of extremely-ancient (pre-Big Bang) input by a Deity. We have, at the same time, said that our beliefs (not to mention I.D.) should NOT be taught in science classrooms. We have not been laughed at. I myself do not feel threatened in the slightest by these threads.

149 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:44:37pm

re: #92 Macker

No, they found my ex-wife!


Alright , both of you take a time out.

150 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:45:02pm

re: #138 jaunte

Human exploration and science will continue with or without us. There are plenty of other countries preparing for the future while we're contemplating joining Islam in the past.

151 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:45:22pm
152 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:45:38pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Human exploration and science will continue with or without us. There are plenty of other countries preparing for the future while we're contemplating joining Islam in the past.

Hand-in-hand with Primitive 1st Century Christianity.

153 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:07pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Make no mistake about it; This is exactly how the Muslim world destroyed itself in about the 11th century. They rejected all philosophy and science that didn't account for the supernatural greatness of Allah. It is no different and the end result will be exactly the same.

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.

154 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:21pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

Killgore, the arabs had nothing to destroy

they were wiping their asses with stones, fercrissake

No wonder they're nuts: walking hemmarhoids.

155 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:31pm

re: #137 FurryOldGuyJeans

Actually, it is MacGyver. :)

Thanks. I never watched the show.

PBS was more interesting. Back then..

cheers

eon

156 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:46:45pm

re: #139 ebed_melech

Ah, that's where the bullet thing is. I saw it mentioned on another page but couldn't find the "evidence". Thanks.

157 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:47:14pm

re: #153 opnion

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.

Fit, I meant fit.

158 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:47:52pm

A petrified brain? At a Creationist study institute?

Isn't that almost as remarkable as finding Budweiser at a Nascar tailgate party?

159 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:47:57pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.

160 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:48:19pm

re: #158 Alberta Oil Peon

A petrified brain? At a Creationist study institute?

Isn't that almost as remarkable as finding Budweiser at a Nascar tailgate party?

Excellent!

161 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:48:25pm

re: #153 opnion

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.

But they will still try -- with a big hammer, smashing the hell out of the world all the while

162 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:49:29pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.

You misunderstand the argument. Whenever anyone makes that statement here, they are usually being purposely obtuse, or, are reading the title of the thread, and not the comments. Most of us have no problem at all with G-d. We strenuously object to religion being taught in a science classroom. Period. That's it. Believe what you will, no one here objects to folks having religious beliefs. The vast majority of us here want it kept out of the science classroom, and we certainly have as much right to our opinions and beliefs without harassment just as you do. I believe in G-d, I believe g-d created evolution. I do not believe he created the Earth in 6 days, then took a break on Sunday. I do not believe he created woman from mans rib. I do not want my children and grandchildren taught this fairytale in science class.

163 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:50:15pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.


That's what I have read. It was the institution of Islam that put them into the Dark Ages & keeps them there. Never has been a Reformation.

164 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:50:53pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.

Up-ding.
Amen.
Then Iman al-Salafi'i and his disciples took over .
/oversimplication mode off

165 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:50:59pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

They were once a vibrant and modern culture.

When?

166 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:51:03pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

Killgore, the arabs had nothing to destroy

they were wiping their asses with stones, fercrissake

The Arabs did preserve a lot of scientific ideas when it was being purged from Europe during the Dark Ages. And they extended science quite a ways (Arabic numbers anyone? Algebra? Chemistry?) until Muslims as a whole took a fundamentalist turn to forgo anything that was not written down in the Koran or explained by an Imam. There really was a lot to destroy, and they did a wondrous job of it. Luckily by then European though had been fertilized and pollinated with knowledge that helped to kick start the Renaissance.

167 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:51:56pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Islam certainly stultified and petrified around 12th C, big question is why? Maybe after Ghazzali's syncretism with Aristotle, or perhaps the root was the definitive rejection of the Mu'tazalis (who taught creation of the Word), and the concession to fatalism that entailed. Before that Islam was quite a fertile field for science - at least it gave enough freedom for enquiry (often by Jews and Christians too) to flourish.

Steve Weinberg has an interesting passage on the dangers of philosophical positions for science,and cites Mach and Einstein for example - both great pioneers hampered by their presuppositions.

168 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:19pm

re: #120 wildcat84

Look... While I do think that evolution is a valid theroy...

I am getting really sick and tired of LGF and other conservative blogs acting very elitist regarding any belief that God had anything to do with how things began.

Go ahead and delete my account or whatever. No, I don't side with the kooks featured, what I object to is that it IS featured.


Quit being so hard headed

169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:26pm

As a Christian, I can tell you that I do not have single solitary Christian friend who would buy this nonsense for a second.

Had to say that.

170 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:32pm

re: #162 CapeCoddah

I do not believe he created the Earth in 6 days, then took a break on Sunday.

Huh?

171 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:36pm

re: #166 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Arabs did preserve a lot of scientific ideas when it was being purged from Europe during the Dark Ages. And they extended science quite a ways (Arabic numbers anyone? Algebra? Chemistry?) until Muslims as a whole took a fundamentalist turn to forgo anything that was not written down in the Koran or explained by an Imam. There really was a lot to destroy, and they did a wondrous job of it. Luckily by then European though had been fertilized and pollinated with knowledge that helped to kick start the Renaissance.

Furry, that is an outstanding analysis.

172 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:52:56pm

re: #169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As a Christian, I can tell you that I do not have single solitary Christian friend who would buy this nonsense for a second.

Had to say that.

Good taste in friends, eh? ;)

173 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:53:00pm

re: #153 opnion

Ya just can't fight square pegs into round holes.


You can if your pegs are made of Jello

174 rawmuse  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:53:32pm

re: #151 ploome hineni

Killgore, the arabs had nothing to destroy

they were wiping their asses with stones, fercrissake

Have to come down on the side of KT, for once. The Muslims invented many things, including a numbering system that we still use today, which included zero, and algebra (pronounced Al-jabbar, I think). Ever wonder why we ditched Roman numerals?

And they did all this while the West was in the darkest of the Dark Ages.

175 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:54:09pm

A couple of things, first to all of those out there, maintaining that Charles "is only interested in keeping this stuff out of the schools". Charles why don't you tell these people they are misinformed.

Tell them that you believe if a person teaches creationism to their kids in the privacy of their own homes they are guilty of "child abuse", and "they are a threat to the country." Of course they can go to end of the last ID thread and read it themselves. Why not tell them that it's the belief you are attacking, not just the teaching of that belief in the schools. A lot of your lizards are really badly informed, as to your thoughts on these things.

Secondly, last night I decided to go on the Discovery Institute website. The thing about them that I found the scariest, was when I clicked on a few of the names of the people involved there, I was seeing Harvard law, so and so, Havard B school, so and so, Columbia Law school, so and so. This actually disturbed me. I thought, nothing much I consider good comes out of Harvard anymore, I don't know about these people.

But stupid, they are not.

176 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:54:27pm

re: #174 rawmuse

Have to come down on the side of KT, for once. The Muslims invented many things, including a numbering system that we still use today, which included zero, and algebra (pronounced Al-jabbar, I think). Ever wonder why we ditched Roman numerals?

And they did all this while the West was in the darkest of the Dark Ages.

It's the book

177 CapeCoddah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:54:30pm

re: #170 Lynn B.

Huh?

"When God[2] began to create heaven and earth, and the earth then was welter and waste and darkness over the deep and God's breath hovering over the waters, God said, 'Let there be light.' and there was light" [3]; the "firmament" separating "the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;" dry land and seas and plants and trees which grew fruit with seed; the sun, moon and stars in the firmament; air-breathing sea creatures and birds; and on the sixth day, "the beasts of the earth according to their kinds." "Then God said, Let us make man in our image ... in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."[4] On the Sabbath, God rests from the task of completing the heavens and the earth:

178 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:55:41pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Make no mistake about it; This is exactly how the Muslim world destroyed itself in about the 11th century. They rejected all philosophy and science that didn't account for the supernatural greatness of Allah. It is no different and the end result will be exactly the same.

/when in doubt or danger, run in circles, scream and shout

179 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:56:10pm

re: #166 FurryOldGuyJeans

they extended science quite a ways

But much of that was "sponsored" -- Jews, Christians, whomever, especially during the Abbasid Caliphate.

See Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism, Chapter 3.

180 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:56:55pm

re: #175 capefear

Interesting that you feel the need to defend Disco institute in an ICR/AIG thread...

181 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:56:57pm

re: #175 capefear

Still looking for those martyr points, I see.

182 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:57:01pm

re: #178 Killian Bundy

/when in doubt or danger, run in circles, scream and shout

Then kiss your ass 'cause its lights out!

183 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:57:52pm

re: #167 ebed_melech

Also see the book and chapter cited in my:
re: #179 pre-Boomer Marine brat

184 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:58:07pm

MSU defeats Michigan, 35 to 21.

185 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:58:23pm

re: #163 opnion

That's what I have read. It was the institution of Islam that put them into the Dark Ages & keeps them there. Never has been a Reformation.

t was vice versa. Europe was in the Dark Ages at that time. Islam was making discoveries and capitalizing on discoveries and writings from conquered lands and pilgrims. Then things went horribly wrong when certain rulers put religion ahead of all else. short easy story.

186 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 3:59:23pm

Hail to the Victors

snicker

187 abolitionist  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:00:30pm

re: #135 karmic_inquisitor

... a false binary choice which divides people ...

There's a lot of that going on in recent decades.

188 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:01:11pm

re: #174 rawmuse

Have to come down on the side of KT, for once. The Muslims invented many things, including a numbering system that we still use today, which included zero, and algebra (pronounced Al-jabbar, I think). Ever wonder why we ditched Roman numerals?

And they did all this while the West was in the darkest of the Dark Ages.

I think both Algebra and Arabic numbers were actually Indian in origin. The Europeans got them from the Arabs, and thought the Arabs invented them, thus the mis-naming we currently have today.

189 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:01:35pm

re: #166 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Arabs did preserve a lot of scientific ideas when it was being purged from Europe during the Dark Ages. And they extended science quite a ways (Arabic numbers anyone? Algebra? Chemistry?) until Muslims as a whole took a fundamentalist turn to forgo anything that was not written down in the Koran or explained by an Imam. There really was a lot to destroy, and they did a wondrous job of it. Luckily by then European though had been fertilized and pollinated with knowledge that helped to kick start the Renaissance.

That's their story and they're sticking to it.

There are, of course, other versions of that history. (Given more time, I could find a better source. I'll work on it.)

190 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:01:52pm

It must be the time of year for Charlie Browns Halloween special.
And the famous line, "I gotta rock"

191 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:02:21pm

re: #179 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But much of that was "sponsored" -- Jews, Christians, whomever, especially during the Abbasid Caliphate.

See Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism, Chapter 3.

Regardless, knowledge was preserved AND expanded. So whether it was sponsored or a direct result of Muslim research and/or thought really is nit-picking as I see it. For example, did Congress do the research to put man on the moon, or did they "sponsor" NASA to do it? The Caliphate could just have just as easily not sponsored others instead of what was actually done. To ignore what happened would not be scientific.

192 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:02:40pm

We have proof positive fossilized human brains are a fact.......

Just look at Plugs Biden.

193 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:05pm

re: #190 DEZes

It must be the time of year for Charlie Browns Halloween special.
And the famous line, "I gotta rock"

Blockhead

194 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:32pm

re: #193 Shug
LOL

195 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:35pm

Speaking of boneheads, have you guys heard that Barock spent $5.3 million on his stage and lighting at Invesco Field for his convention speech? And they say Sarah Palen spent an outlandish amount on clothing for her campaign!

196 rawmuse  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:03:37pm

re: #188 stevieray

Your argument has merit.

In the link, they are referred to as Hindu-arabic numerals.

197 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:03pm
non-materialist causation

.

Wow.

198 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:19pm

re: #188 stevieray

I think both Algebra and Arabic numbers were actually Indian in origin. The Europeans got them from the Arabs, and thought the Arabs invented them, thus the mis-naming we currently have today.

You're right. Both were developed by the Indians.

199 GoJeepGo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:24pm

re: #192 JCM

We have proof positive fossilized human brains are a fact.......

Just look at Plugs Biden.

Speaking of... he's getting hammered by my local news!

200 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:29pm

re: #177 CapeCoddah

Yes, that would be the seventh day, which would be Saturday.

Sunday came to be observed as the Sabbath, by some people, a little later.

201 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:04:52pm

re: #195 Griffon

Speaking of boneheads, have you guys heard that Barock spent $5.3 million on his stage and lighting at Invesco Field for his convention speech? And they say Sarah Palen spent an outlandish amount on clothing for her campaign!

But He is The One©.

202 Purple Prose  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:05pm

If only they put their energy into getting McCain elected and preventing the most liberal, inexperienced and questionable person to ever run for the office of POTUS from being elected. Instead, they choose to use their considerable energy to fighting reason.

203 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:30pm

Creationists discussing a petrified brain?

I'd like some extra sauce to go with that delicious symbolism, please.

204 Winslow  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:37pm

The brain of a Designist is irredeemably simplistic -- too simplistic to be the result of evolution.

205 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:41pm

re: #185 Outrider

t was vice versa. Europe was in the Dark Ages at that time. Islam was making discoveries and capitalizing on discoveries and writings from conquered lands and pilgrims. Then things went horribly wrong when certain rulers put religion ahead of all else. short easy story.

I do believe that we are saying about the same thing. I am not saying that because Islam existed that progress stoped.
I am saying that with the enforcement of Islam progress was halted.
Islam does not condone free thinking. Advancements after that were made by parastic practices, taking from host countries , generally Europe.
Even today, how many Noble prize Muslim winners?

206 ssawtell  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:05:53pm

re: #175 capefear


Why not tell them that it's the belief you are attacking, not just the teaching of that belief in the schools.

so what if he is (not saying he is, I have no idea)? if someone puts forth a claim in any other realm - politics, economics, science etc., we are free to debate the validity of it. if someone puts forth a religious claim we are just supposed to say "oh, ok. i respect your belief."? I claim the right to attack a belief in debate that i think is manifestly false, regardless of the subject.

207 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:06:04pm

re: #185 Outrider

t was vice versa. Europe was in the Dark Ages at that time. Islam was making discoveries and capitalizing on discoveries and writings from conquered lands and pilgrims. Then things went horribly wrong when certain rulers put religion ahead of all else. short easy story.

But lets not forget it was the Catholic Monasteries that became the keeper of knowledge and scholarship alive during the dark ages in the West. The irony is that the Catholic Church that did so much to preserve knowledge was the same Church that later denied knowledge.

People always screw things up, don't they?

208 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:06:45pm

re: #189 Lynn B.

That's their story and they're sticking to it.

There are, of course, other versions of that history. (Given more time, I could find a better source. I'll work on it.)

Because Islam presents a threat now is no reason to rewrite history and minimize the level of civilization they had long ago. There are to many historical references written that document that history.

209 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:06pm

re: #179 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But much of that was "sponsored" -- Jews, Christians, whomever, especially during the Abbasid Caliphate.

See Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism, Chapter 3.

Thank you. That would definitely be one of those "better sources" I mentioned. A highly recommended read.

210 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:07pm

re: #199 GoJeepGo

Speaking of... he's getting hammered by my local news!

And they're being punished for it, too. That is, for actually asking tough questions. Like journalists are supposed to.

211 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:21pm

re: #175 capefear

But stupid, they are not.


You sure seem to be wanting that mantle, though. Ahh, the joys of wanting to be a self-anointed martyr.

212 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:25pm

re: #190 DEZes

It's the great fossil...

213 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:07:31pm

re: #191 FurryOldGuyJeans

Regardless, knowledge was preserved AND expanded. So whether it was sponsored or a direct result of Muslim research and/or thought really is nit-picking as I see it. For example, did Congress do the research to put man on the moon, or did they "sponsor" NASA to do it? The Caliphate could just have just as easily not sponsored others instead of what was actually done. To ignore what happened would not be scientific.

Point taken.

OT, for the trivia of it, look up how many Japanese have won scientific Nobel Prizes FOR WORK DONE WHILE LIVING IN JAPAN. Several years ago, it was zilch.

214 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:08:06pm

In response to latest comments Charles added to the header - I doubt there's much mystery, DI is probably planning to take on mind-brain identity head on. It's ripe for demolishing, and there'd be no shortage of neuroscientists and neurosurgeons who'd be happy to debunk materialist monism who'd have little truck with the DI.

215 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:08:27pm
216 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:02pm

re: #212 Thanos
upding

217 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:43pm

re: #199 GoJeepGo

Speaking of... he's getting hammered by my local news!

I liked that newscaster a LOT! She wasn't afraid to ask him tough questions. He just didn't want to answer them, so he laughed at her. What else could he do. He didn't dare agree with her or he'd be in trouble with his "boss" again.

218 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:44pm

re: #175 capefear

I thought, nothing much I consider good comes out of Harvard anymore, I don't know about these people.

But stupid, they are not.

Don't confuse education with intelligence.

219 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:09:56pm

re: #208 Outrider

Because Islam presents a threat now is no reason to rewrite history and minimize the level of civilization they had long ago. There are to many historical references written that document that history.

The rewriting was done long ago and has become an accepted part of popular culture. I think if you delve into it a little more deeply, you'll find that to be the case.

220 drmark  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:10:34pm

Creationists declare war over the brain

To do so, they look to some of their favourite experiments, such as research by Schwartz in the 1990s on people suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder. Schwartz used scanning technology to look at the neural patterns thought to be responsible for OCD. Then he had patients use "mindful attention" to actively change their thought processes, and this showed up in the brain scans: patients could alter their patterns of neural firing at will.

From such experiments, Schwartz and others argue that since the mind can change the brain, the mind must be something other than the brain, something non-material. In fact, these experiments are entirely consistent with mainstream neurology - the material brain is changing the material brain.

Think about it....

221 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:11:08pm

re: #209 Lynn B.

Thank you. That would definitely be one of those "better sources" I mentioned. A highly recommended read.

It's now out in a trade paperback 2nd Edition. I hate paperbacks, but I jumped at buying it.

I already had the original. The top of it is a literal forest of little Post-It flags.

222 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:11:38pm

re: #207 TaeJohnDo

But lets not forget it was the Catholic Monasteries that became the keeper of knowledge and scholarship alive during the dark ages in the West. The irony is that the Catholic Church that did so much to preserve knowledge was the same Church that later denied knowledge.

People always screw things up, don't they?

* * * *
Fortunately, a Polish catholic got sick and tired of Nazi & Communist propaganda about the "New, Modern, Progressive (Marxist) Man" getting shoved down his throat, so when he became Pope John Paul, he helped topple that evil regime of "progressives" who put people into gulags and murdered those they disagreed with.

Thank Heaven for religious refuseniks and anyone who thought they had a first amendment right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, apart from what some "modern, progressive, marxist" regime doles out to its unhappy inmates.

223 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:12:10pm

I'm not ashamed at all to say that I have no respect for the ideology of creationism. And if you teach your children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and dinosaurs were around at the same time as people, and that scientists are evil atheistic monsters trying to destroy your religion -- yes, I do indeed consider that a form of child abuse. You're taking a young mind and indoctrinating it to reject science in favor of fanaticism, and that's simply wrong.

You have a right to choose to believe in this hooey, and I respect that right. I don't respect the hooey itself, though, and I really don't respect people who corrupt childrens' minds with it.

224 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:12:41pm

re: #205 opnion

I do believe that we are saying about the same thing. I am not saying that because Islam existed that progress stoped.
I am saying that with the enforcement of Islam progress was halted.
Islam does not condone free thinking. Advancements after that were made by parastic practices, taking from host countries , generally Europe.
Even today, how many Noble prize Muslim winners?

to a point. under early Islam; with the number of pilgrims traveling, knowledge and diversity of thought was encouraged. The, the literalists took over. I'd have to look up the specifics. A lot of discoveries were made by others; Indians for example. But, this freedom and the concept of pilgrimages allowed these concepts to spread more easily.

225 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:13:29pm

re: #188 stevieray

I think both Algebra and Arabic numbers were actually Indian in origin. The Europeans got them from the Arabs, and thought the Arabs invented them, thus the mis-naming we currently have today.

Refined, preserved, and transmitted to Europe by the Arabs, though, hence why they have Arabic names.

226 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:13:39pm

re: #220 drmark

and the mind can change the shape of the body by inducing it to excercise more, causing different gene expression. What about it?

227 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:13:43pm

re: #183 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Karsh sounds interesting, Lewis of course, who's no mean authority has quite a lot of respect for Islamic hegemony. It's reasonable to ask why the Middle East left Byzantium and Rome behind, and served as a repository for science the rest of Europe had forgotten.

One example I stumbled across recently was Servetus' (Calvin's heretical opponent) description of the circulation from an Arab source long time before Harvey's.

228 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:02pm

re: #218 TaeJohnDo

Don't confuse education with intelligence.

/understanding the microbiology of the human brain is essential to further human progress

229 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:15pm

re: #220 drmark

Oooh. Deep.

230 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:23pm

re: #218 TaeJohnDo

Don't confuse education with intelligence.

Certainly can't explain Congress if you do.

231 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:38pm

re: #195 Griffon

Speaking of boneheads, have you guys heard that Barock spent $5.3 million on his stage and lighting at Invesco Field for his convention speech? And they say Sarah Palen spent an outlandish amount on clothing for her campaign!

ACORN is all about stage-and-lighting.

232 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:14:59pm

re: #222 alegrias

* * * *
Fortunately, a Polish catholic got sick and tired of Nazi & Communist propaganda about the "New, Modern, Progressive (Marxist) Man" getting shoved down his throat, so when he became Pope John Paul, he helped topple that evil regime of "progressives" who put people into gulags and murdered those they disagreed with.

Thank Heaven for religious refuseniks and anyone who thought they had a first amendment right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, apart from what some "modern, progressive, marxist" regime doles out to its unhappy inmates.

Well said and AMEN! PJP is one of my heroes! Along with Reagan, Thacher and Sgt Rock! (He never needed a parachute -- he was tough!)

233 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:15:14pm

re: #207 TaeJohnDo

But lets not forget it was the Catholic Monasteries that became the keeper of knowledge and scholarship alive during the dark ages in the West. The irony is that the Catholic Church that did so much to preserve knowledge was the same Church that later denied knowledge.

People always screw things up, don't they?

This the same folks that condemned people for thinking the world was round and the sun did not in fact revolve around the Earth?

234 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:15:16pm

re: #217 Griffon

I liked that newscaster a LOT! She wasn't afraid to ask him tough questions. He just didn't want to answer them, so he laughed at her. What else could he do. He didn't dare agree with her or he'd be in trouble with his "boss" again.

Her career is over....../
She was excellent, if the media a few more like that we'd have a different election.

235 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:23pm

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

236 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:34pm

re: #210 arethusa

And they're being punished for it, too. That is, for actually asking tough questions. Like journalists are supposed to.

That's great! I hope the cancellation got noised all over the media and that they reran the hell out of the interview with Biden so people could see that he didn't like the tough questions. He better stay out of the kitchen.

237 ebed_melech  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:48pm

re: #223 Charles

What about the fairy tale of abiogenesis? Should children be taught what most acknowledge is extremely farfetched science to put it politely.

238 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:16:50pm

re: #219 Lynn B.

The rewriting was done long ago and has become an accepted part of popular culture. I think if you delve into it a little more deeply, you'll find that to be the case.

noted. get a book.

239 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:24pm

re: #234 JCM

Her career is over....../
She was excellent, if the media a few more like that we'd have a different election.

Maybe not....she might be the tip of the iceberg on the critical mass of responsible reporters. Notice I did NOT say journalists; not a one of them critters is responsible except for a lot of lies.

240 DEZes  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:27pm

re: #234 JCM

Her career is over....../
She was excellent, if the media a few more like that we'd have a different election.


I loved that clip, saw a little quip on Hot Air, that Biden found himself on WTF.TV.

241 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:27pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationist are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

Do share........

242 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:17:34pm

re: #224 Outrider

to a point. under early Islam; with the number of pilgrims traveling, knowledge and diversity of thought was encouraged. The, the literalists took over. I'd have to look up the specifics. A lot of discoveries were made by others; Indians for example. But, this freedom and the concept of pilgrimages allowed these concepts to spread more easily.

I will grant that. What I am saying is that once Islam took hold inquiry became very dangerous & it is evident that truly Islamic societies are backward.

243 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:02pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

Darn, you get all the good hate mail. ;)

244 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:18pm

re: #236 Griffon

That's great! I hope the cancellation got noised all over the media and that they reran the hell out of the interview with Biden so people could see that he didn't like the tough questions. He better stay out of the kitchen.

It's tops on Drudge. CNN's top story? The Palin-acting-like-a-rogue story.

245 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:37pm
246 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:50pm

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

247 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:18:53pm

re: #223 Charles

I'm right there with you. While neo-nazis, scientologists, leftist crystal worshippers, etc. all have the right to teach their children what they want, I don't have to respect them for it either.

248 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:16pm

re: #230 FurryOldGuyJeans

Certainly can't explain Congress if you do.

* * *
Congress ain't stupid, silly wabbit--they're smart like bank robbers, they're there because that's where the MONEY is. SPREADING THE WEALTH through porkbarrel self dealing.

Some are more principled than others. Chicago politicians are the worst though, and famously so.

249 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:24pm

re: #227 ebed_melech

Karsh sounds interesting, Lewis of course, who's no mean authority has quite a lot of respect for Islamic hegemony. It's reasonable to ask why the Middle East left Byzantium and Rome behind, and served as a repository for science the rest of Europe had forgotten.

One example I stumbled across recently was Servetus' (Calvin's heretical opponent) description of the circulation from an Arab source long time before Harvey's.

You're better read on the subject than I am. Bernard Lewis? Yes. Coined "clash of civilizations", I believe back in the 50's. I've read an article by him, but no books.

250 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:33pm

re: #239 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe not....she might be the tip of the iceberg on the critical mass of responsible reporters. Notice I did NOT say journalists; not a one of them critters is responsible except for a lot of lies.

I certainly hope so. Would be nice not to have fisk every stinky news report.

251 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:19:37pm
252 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:02pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

You must be over the target.

253 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:11pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh oh. The creationists are pissed off at me again. The hate mail's coming in.

Well I'm sure that this time that will make you see the light and repent.

/not holding breath...

254 opnion  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:18pm

re: #245 ploome hineni

the Caliphate did not sponsor, they took over very brilliant civilization, the Assyrian, Byzantine and Persian and Jewish

and in retrospect, demanded credit for the art, literature and medical and scientific works produced by these slowly dying civilizations

in Arabia.......with no outside influence, there was nothing, there is nothing and there will be nothing because of the suffocating brutal ignorance of islam

an it took a few hundred years to suck the life out of those people

this is not nit-picking

Spot on!

255 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:27pm

re: #248 alegrias

* * *
Congress ain't stupid, silly wabbit--they're smart like bank robbers, they're there because that's where the MONEY is. SPREADING THE WEALTH through porkbarrel self dealing.

Some are more principled than others. Chicago politicians are the worst though, and famously so.

Then please explain Senator Joseph Biden, if you can. Are you seriously saying Joe Plugs is SMART?!?

256 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:30pm

re: #246 Shug

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

This is lighting command, new target coordinates.
Fire mission. Shugs house three bolts.

/

257 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:32pm

re: #242 opnion

I will grant that. What I am saying is that once Islam took hold inquiry became very dangerous & it is evident that truly Islamic societies are backward.

yes.

258 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:20:34pm

re: #246 Shug

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

If the left are so sure Obama will win, why do they get so enraged when anyone suggests he won't?

259 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:00pm

re: #163 opnion

That's what I have read. It was the institution of Islam that put them into the Dark Ages & keeps them there. Never has been a Reformation.

I have a theory about cultures, FWIW.

There are three fundamental types, which I call (originally enough) Type 1, 2, and 3.

Type 1 cultures are the ones which innovate, discover things, and invent things. These cultures reward innovation, by making those who create new things rich, influential, or powerful. Or just respect the H**l out of them. (Example- the British Crown knighting [Sir] Isaac Newton for his accomplishments in mathematics.) These are the leader cultures which change the world, like it or not. Greece, Rome, ancient China, and the U.S. today are typical Type 1 cultures. Most Type 1 cultures are democracies, although there have been exceptions.

Type 2 cultures are the next rung down. They do not innovate to any great extent, but they are good at adapting innovations from Type 1 cultures. And they can, sometimes, evolve into Type 1s. Japan is the classic example of such a culture, which adopted Western technology rapidly beween Coomodore Perry's landing in 1854 and the Russo-Japanese War of 1904. Today, they are possibly the foremost Type 1 culture around, with only the U.S. and some Western European countries even close to them. Type 2 cultures may be democracies, or monarchies, or despotisms- it varies. They do, however, tend to change government forms as they evolve.

Type 3 cultures are the lowest rung on the ladder. They are the cultures that neither innovate nor adapt readily. Usually due to an adherence to dogmas that generally or even specifically prohibit new ideas. Such prohibitions may be religious in nature, or simply due to a lack of education. Examples include tribal cultures worldwide, often existing within nation-states which are Type 1 or 2 cultures themselves. Type 3 cultures rarely have governments of a representative type, except in the abstract.

The point is that, just as a Type 2 culture can evolve into a Type 1, a Type 3 can evolve into a Type 2, and from there to a 1, given adequate education. By the same token, a Type 1 can devolve into a Type 2, or even a Type 3, given a sufficient disruption of its knowledge base.

Where does this come in?

Ancient China was a Type 1 culture. But after the stultifying effects of its rigidly-stratified society began to take full effect during the Ming Dynasty, it became a Type 2 culture, which it is today.

Japan was a Type 3 culture which became a Type 2 while still ruled by the system of government which had been extant when it was a Type 3. After World War Two, that system was finally gone, replaced by a Western-style democracy, and Japan became a full-on Type 1.

The Arab world was a Type 2 culture, readily adapting new ideas (black powder, decimal notation, astronomy) from Type 1 cultures. Then Islam came along, and it quickly lost its adaptive edge, and became rigidly locked in stasis. It was never a Type 1 culture, and now may never have the chance to be one.

As for the U.S. and the West in general, these Type 1 cultures are now trending toward Type 2, and in some cases (notably Berkeley) are heading for Type 3 at an uncomfortably high rate of descent.

Note that none of this has anything to do with "race", "ethnicity", or anything except a culture's way of dealing with innovation. And it's just my own theory, based on observation.

Take it for what it's worth. Or not.

/ducks

cheers

eon

260 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:08pm

Here's the latest:

Your obsession in this debate has overshadowed the wonderful work you have done in exposing the dangers of Islamic fundamentalism.

I don't think you're trying to change any minds--only strut your views as intellectually superior to those who have shared your concern and desire to discuss and expose those who pose a very real threat to western freedoms.

I can get this kind of single-minded obsession at Andrew Sullivan's.

Bookmark deleted. For good.

Get well soon.

"Single-minded obsession." There are about 3 dozen posts right now on the front page, and two are about creationism.

One-track mind, that's me.

261 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:24pm

re: #231 debutaunt

ACORN is all about stage-and-lighting.

* * *
If Hillary cared about women politicians, she would have lent sister Sarah her pantsuit collection, slightly used.

Governor Sarah Palin normally buys used clothes at consignment shops. But nooooooo, Hillary didn't want to help out a sister.

262 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:21:26pm

re: #256 JCM

This is lighting command, new target coordinates.
Fire mission. Shugs house three bolts.

/


I'm holding up my 1 iron.

Even God can't hit a 1 iron
- Lee Trevino

263 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:22:16pm

re: #259 eon

Wow - that is kind of Aristotelian, actually.

264 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:22:43pm

re: #228 Killian Bundy

/understanding the microbiology of the human brain is essential to further human progress

OK, how about, Don't confuse academic credentials from big named schools with a proper education and intelligence. One of the most ignorant person I know is a man with a PhD in psychology from a prestigious school.

You know, if you don't properly apply the training and education you receive, you can make horrendously stupid decisions, especially when your belief in something is more profound than the reality of something.

265 nyc redneck  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:22:57pm

this is an ridiculous "science" article.
first that spongy rubber thing they were all handling in the photos is not a petrified brain.
actual petrified brains have been recovered from the fossil record. and some have been recovered from primates.
what happens is the animal dies and when the brain decays, the brain cavity fills up w/ silt or clay and hardens into the exact external morphology of the brain that used to be there..
convolutions and blood vessels are readily observable but the interior gray matter is nothing but stone.
an endocrainial cast of a brain doesn't bleed or swell or change colors. it is just a rock.
this is more bizarre than the 'fossil' of the dino print on top of the human foot print. fantasy.

266 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:02pm

re: #260 Charles

Here's the latest:

"Single-minded obsession." There are about 3 dozen posts right now on the front page, and two are about creationism.

One-track mind, that's me.

Interesting that they don't mind you attacking fundamentalism if it is Islamic, but do the same for the Christian fundies that have just as insidious an agenda and they come all unglued.

267 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:13pm

re: #233 Outrider

This the same folks that condemned people for thinking the world was round and the sun did not in fact revolve around the Earth?

* * *
No, those "folks" who said that died around the time of Copernicus.
Different folks, same institution, several hundred years apart you see.

Under different management.

268 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:38pm

re: #262 Shug

I'm holding up my 1 iron.

Even God can't hit a 1 iron
- Lee Trevino

A priest and doctor were out golfing one Wednesday afternoon. The doctor gets up to take his first shot. He swings and misses the ball completely.

"God dammit, I missed," says the doctor.

The sky starts to darken a bit becoming overcast.

"Don't use the Lord God's name in vain," says the priest.

"I am sorry, Father," replies the doctor.

The doctor steps up again to tee off and misses the ball once again.

"God dammit, I missed," says the doctor. The sky darkens even more and a low rumble resounds throughout the land.

"Don't use the Lord God's name in vain," says the priest.

"I am sorry, Father," replies the doctor.

Once again, the doctor tries to take a swing at the ball and completely misses. He throws his club to the ground and yells, "God dammit, I missed."

The heavens roared and the storm erupted, sending a lightning bolt down and straight into the priest, which struck him dead.

Then a booming voice arose from the sky and said, "Dammit, I missed."

269 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:56pm
270 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:23:56pm

re: #245 ploome hineni

I was the one who originally said "sponsored" up-thread (#179), and I put it in quotes. You have an excellent point, which is why I did that.

271 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:13pm

re: #259 eon

Excellent post.

272 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:27pm

re: #225 FurryOldGuyJeans

Refined, preserved, and transmitted to Europe by the Arabs, though, hence why they have Arabic names.

Actually, mainly refined by Persians and transmitted by Arab traders.

273 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:35pm

re: #223 Charles

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

274 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:44pm

re: #245 ploome hineni

the Caliphate did not sponsor, they took over very brilliant civilization, the Assyrian, Byzantine and Persian and Jewish

and in retrospect, demanded credit for the art, literature and medical and scientific works produced by these slowly dying civilizations

in Arabia.......with no outside influence, there was nothing, there is nothing and there will be nothing because of the suffocating brutal ignorance of islam

an it took a few hundred years to suck the life out of those people

this is not nit-picking

Indeed. For frighteningly apt popular culture analogy, see Borg, The.

275 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:24:51pm

re: #260 Charles

Get well soon.


What? No prayers?

276 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:25:30pm

re: #251 ploome hineni

do you have a source for that scenario?

Got quite a few, but as someone else noted earlier, they have apparently been "rewritten" by, I assume Muslim apologists.

This is a little awkward as I'm sitting here typing with one finger while holding a sleeping grand daughter with my other arm.

277 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:04pm

re: #275 Killgore Trout

What? No prayers?

No prayers for the damned I guess....
How very Christian.

no sarc.

278 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:04pm

re: #269 ploome hineni

Almost; slight correction:
"as it is TODAY, Spain published more books in one year than all the arab countries put together [publish in a year].

279 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:16pm

re: #273 capefear

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

280 legalpad  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:35pm

Perhaps Creationists can infect science with religion the way environmentalism has infected it with politics. It's too bad. They neither understand science or religion.

281 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:26:45pm

re: #263 arethusa

Wow - that is kind of Aristotelian, actually.

Thank you! :-)

cheers

eon

282 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:27:06pm

re: #269 ploome hineni

191 FurryOldGuyJeans

the arabs were illiterate

if the written word was preserved, it was because the arabs/muslims did not know what it was

as it is TODAY, Spain published more books in one year than all the arab countries put together have ever published

/or some such number

Look at the times and the technology available. And then look at the modern world and you can see similar circumstances, hence the reason for this thread in the first place.

And knowledge is a lot more than just words on paper bound into books.

283 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:27:59pm

re: #264 TaeJohnDo

OK, how about, Don't confuse academic credentials from big named schools with a proper education and intelligence. One of the most ignorant person I know is a man with a PhD in psychology from a prestigious school.

You know, if you don't properly apply the training and education you receive, you can make horrendously stupid decisions, especially when your belief in something is more profound than the reality of something.

/the goal remains, the human existence start and stops with the human brain, I welcome all comers, if they're wrong, they're wrong

284 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:08pm

re: #239 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe not....she might be the tip of the iceberg on the critical mass of responsible reporters. Notice I did NOT say journalists; not a one of them critters is responsible except for a lot of lies.

From the WSJ, John Fund in the Political Diary:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Mr. Obama will certainly be getting the lion's share of votes from reporters who cover his campaign, but that doesn't make his media operation popular. "There is an arrogance there that I hope doesn't carry forward to any Obama White House," one reporter who travels frequently with the candidate told me. "But all the signs of trouble are already there."

285 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:16pm

re: #273 capefear

Wow- are you ever ignoring the point in the most froward example I've ever seen.

286 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:21pm

re: #260 Charles

Yep, a one-track mind, a real Chattanooga Choo-Choo

/

287 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:36pm

re: #255 FurryOldGuyJeans

Then please explain Senator Joseph Biden, if you can. Are you seriously saying Joe Plugs is SMART?!?

* * * *
Yes, it does take some smarts to get elected. You've seen how treacherous it is if the media is against you.

But to win re-election 35 years in a row--Joe Biden as a democrat has the democrat machine backing him. Unfortunately, his constituents who disagree with him are stuck on the wrong end of democrat machine politics and don't get a choice for 35 years straight. God Love them, as Joe Biden and his mother might say.

288 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:28:53pm

re: #223 Charles

You have a right to choose to believe in this hooey, and I respect that right. I don't respect the hooey itself, though, and I really don't respect people who corrupt childrens' minds with it.

Amen, Charles.

When I was a young 'un in college, I had to write a paper comparing creation in the Bible to evolution. I already knew the answer, but it helped me reach some personal decisions concerning my religious beliefs, which I had never dared seriously ponder before. It is very difficult to be reared in a strict religious home, never believing the religious stuff you are expected to swallow hook, line, and sinker. And it's hard when your family is subsidizing your edumacation and you want to hurl every time they nag you about going to church. They never quit harassing me about religion until I got married at age 31. Had I known that, I'd have married at 12.

289 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:03pm

re: #279 Charles


I don't know Charles your always telling me.

I want to shut down discussion. I'm against debate. I don't want my views questioned. In almost every post you tell me what I had for breakfast.

290 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:12pm

re: #259 eon

I think you have it right.

Culture is destiny.

And analyzing cultures is not racist or bigoted... those words are thrown around to stifle uncomfortable truths... like the absurdity of multiculturalism, for instance.

291 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:20pm
292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:29:48pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

Hey Shar... Crush any more "ACORNS" today?

293 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:30:11pm
294 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:30:13pm

If evolution is real, where do chicken dinosaurs come from? My kids eat them all the time.

295 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:30:40pm

From the site: "Brother Ian Taylor of Creation Moments
was totally amazed at this fossil.
"Very interesting artifact. I know the
Good Lord is working in this area and somehow it will be used for His Glory. Lithification of soft tissue and of this calibre is a first as far as I know."

Man! Now my brain is becoming petrified. I tried reading some of that nonsense. They manage to "prove" it's not some natural geological occurrence by ridiculously mis-stating the definitions of the geological phenomena.

Without getting my hands on it, I'd hazard a guess it's simply a large nodule of jasper, which is merely cryptocrystalline silica with some iron oxide content.

They go on at great lengths about the property of cleavage. Cleavage can be a property of either rocks or mineral crystals. In crystals, cleavage is simply an expression of planes of weaker bonding in preferred directions. Not all minerals have it, quartz (the mineral best fitting the claimed composition of this blob) being one that doesn't. But cryptocrystalline materials would not exhibit cleavage, anyway, since cleavage is a property of individual crystals, and with countless randomly-oriented sub-microscopic cystals, cleavage planes could not be seen. And rock cleavage is another property altogether, being planes of weakness expressed between individual crystals or microlayers that have been preferentially oriented due to imposed stress. Slate is the classic example.

This specimen probably started out as an accumulation of silica gel, which gradually became dewatered, and crystallized as chalcedony, which is the cryptocrystalline form of quartz. Agate is the most familiar form of chalcedony. Jasper is very similar, but colored and rendered opaque by iron oxide.

Even if it were in fact a fossilized human brain, that would prove exactly zilch with respect to Intelligent Design.

If I did get my hands on it, I'd run it through a diamond saw in a New York minute. Might make real pretty slabs.

296 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:02pm

re: #268 JCM

/s
JCM, as a Catholic, all I can say regarding your joke is "I'll see you in hell!

297 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:12pm

re: #273 capefear

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

You mistake Charles point (if I may speak for him). As a Evangelical Christian and one who believes in a God created universe. I happen to agree with Charles on this.

Selling faith as science is both bad faith and bad science. What the Disco Institute is up too is not about faith, it's about using political power to foist faith upon everyone. That's not how the gospel works.

298 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:15pm

re: #289 capefear

I don't know Charles your always telling me.

I want to shut down discussion. I'm against debate. I don't want my views questioned. In almost every post you tell me what I had for breakfast.

Glad you admitted you are against debate and don't want your views questioned. Refreshing to have someone be so blunt and condescending when they whine.

299 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:33pm

re: #293 ploome hineni

I can't find a better link, but I saw it at Meryl Yourish:
"Arabs vs Israel"
By Farrukh Saleem
[Link: www.yourish.com...]

300 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:34pm
301 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:35pm

re: #289 capefear

Why are you here?

302 realwest  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:31:41pm

Hey all y'all - just a drive by post sorta, but I posted this earlier this past week and don't know if Charles saw it or not.
Down here in North Carolina, Ben Stein is publicizing the hell out of "Expelled" with very misleading ads - some I suppose as "trailers" from the film. First one shows him asking an "Old Fuddy Duddy" professor who just said something about Evolution "But Professor, how did Life Begin?" Next scene (in the ad at least) shows stein and a young student sitting on a bench outside the Principal's office and the kid asks Ben "Why are you here [at the Principal's Office] and Ben says "I asked a question." fade to black.
I don't hate Ben, but I hope that film doesn't go anywhere at the box office.

303 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:00pm

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Still working on it. Don't tell anyone, but I've been using a rock petrified brian to grind them to a pulp.

304 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:07pm

re: #269 ploome hineni

191 FurryOldGuyJeans


the arabs were illiterate

if the written word was preserved, it was because the arabs/muslims did not know what it was

as it is TODAY, Spain published more books in one year than all the arab countries put together have ever published

/or some such number

* * *
Moslems are all over in Spain today, with their kebab shops & mosques everywhere, partly funded by the socialist liberal government of Zapatero the anti-Bush appeaser.

A Moslem mullah published a book in Spain in 1999 or 2000 on how to beat your wife as Mohammed taught, so the Spanish authorities won't know you're beating your wife.

It's only a matter of time until Sharia makes wife beating the law in Spain.

305 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:08pm

From reading some of the folks here, I'm starting to believe that Jesus really did turn the water into whine

306 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:16pm

re: #279 Charles

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

Oatmeal or a juice mixture, eggs?

/guessing

307 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:41pm

re: #296 TaeJohnDo

/s
JCM, as a Catholic, all I can say regarding your joke is "I'll see you in hell!

Since my grandpa and dad are Baptist preachers, for you I'll change it to Baptist preacher.
;-)

308 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:32:53pm
309 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:33:05pm

re: #302 realwest

Hey all y'all - just a drive by post sorta, but I posted this earlier this past week and don't know if Charles saw it or not.
Down here in North Carolina, Ben Stein is publicizing the hell out of "Expelled" with very misleading ads - some I suppose as "trailers" from the film. First one shows him asking an "Old Fuddy Duddy" professor who just said something about Evolution "But Professor, how did Life Begin?" Next scene (in the ad at least) shows stein and a young student sitting on a bench outside the Principal's office and the kid asks Ben "Why are you here [at the Principal's Office] and Ben says "I asked a question." fade to black.
I don't hate Ben, but I hope that film doesn't go anywhere at the box office.

It's already flopped at the box office. Now they're trying to get some more suckers to buy the DVD.

310 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:11pm

re: #273 capefear

You always feel the need to expand a little bit on what it is your attacking don't you. Throw in the dinosaurs with people bit, as if most creationists believe that. Make sure you get the 6000 years in, now I see we've added "evil atheistic monsters", no Charles you just hate the idea of people who believe in creator and teach it to their kids, and one day maybe you'll admit that to these people.

With respect, I'm re-posting this from up-thread. and I'm adding bold hightlighting on a pertinant sentence.

re: #148 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With respect, plenty of us (myself included) have posted our personal beliefs in some sort of extremely-ancient (pre-Big Bang) input by a Deity. We have, at the same time, said that our beliefs (not to mention I.D.) should NOT be taught in science classrooms. We have not been laughed at. I myself do not feel threatened in the slightest by these threads.

311 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:34pm

re: #297 JCM


No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

312 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:53pm
313 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:34:57pm

re: #293 ploome hineni

Re-reading, your post was more correct than my correction! Sorry about that:
"Spain translates more books in a year than has the Arab world in the past thousand years (since the reign of Caliph Mamoun; Abbasid, caliph 813-833)"

314 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:35:49pm

re: #302 realwest

The movie has already come and gone from theaters and now is getting a fresh life on DVD. The adverts are enough to make me think they were done by the same people who do The One's adverts, hence I have as much interest in seeing Expelled as I did as seeing An Inconvenient Truth. I want entertainment/education, not theology.

315 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:02pm

re: #244 arethusa

It's tops on Drudge. CNN's top story? The Palin-acting-like-a-rogue story.

Shucks. I usually check Drudge every 5 minutes. Missed that. I see that Palen is calling a nation under Obama a "nanny state" LOL Barack the Babysitter.

316 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:06pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

I think you are omitting the 6,000 year/dinosaurs/human aspect perhaps?

317 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:07pm

re: #298 FurryOldGuyJeans


I was repeating things Charles has said to me.

318 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:36:44pm

re: #291 ploome hineni

*rimshot*

319 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:04pm

re: #307 JCM

Since my grandpa and dad are Baptist preachers, for you I'll change it to Baptist preacher.
;-)

You sir (or ma'am) are a gentleman. Or gentlewoman ... (Political Correctness sucks ...)

320 debutaunt  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:05pm

re: #273 capefear

"these people" !

321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:14pm

re: #296 TaeJohnDo

Gave my pastor a birthday card once, had a picture of six very dour looking priests on it. Had a caption that read... "Five out of six priests agree..."
open the card....
"You are going straight to hell."

I wrote a note..."See you there".

Everytime he saw me for three months he said, "Heh. See you there."

322 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:37:15pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

So you LIKE abusing children eh?

////

323 realwest  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:38:03pm

re: #309 Charles
Glad to hear it! Uh, I mean that it's flopped at the box office - wonder if they can sell the dvd's as a package set with the dvd's from Rev. Wright's sermons?!?
/

324 eon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:38:31pm

Well, it's been fun, and informative, as always. But it's time for me to say good night.

Sleep well, Lizards.

And thanks.

cheers

eon

325 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:38:43pm

re: #317 capefear

You are lieing by omission, what's the good book say about that?


/lesson in Christianity from an atheist

326 Syrah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:00pm

Its time to Bring Turtles into this discussion, since we all know that its Turtles all the way down anyway.

Come on people! We can be so happy together if you all just give up this nonsense and think like I do!

327 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:05pm

re: #319 TaeJohnDo

You sir (or ma'am) are a gentleman. Or gentlewoman ... (Political Correctness sucks ...)

* * *
It's gentleperson and don't you forget it! Gender is so...so...conservative.

328 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:07pm

re: #301 Lynn B.


Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

329 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:39:18pm

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

330 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:40:21pm

re: #325 Thanos


I really have no idea what your talking about.

331 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:40:42pm

re: #328 capefear

Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

Don't be an ass. Ok, well, at least try?

I'm here because I have learned and continue to learn a lot of these threads (among others). If I felt as persecuted and victimized as you seem to, I'd stay away. But that's just me.

332 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:41:24pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

Where does the Biblical account say 6000 years? That number comes from Bishop Ussher who made a number of mistakes in reading the Jewish genealogies.

I suggest you do a little more Bible study, in the original languages you don't need to know Greek and Hebrew just have a Interlinear Bible, a good concordance and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries.

Case in point Yowm translated into "day" in Genesis.

The Bible is primary a spiritual text, not a historical or scientific text.

Finally consider this. I believe in the Creator. I also believe in his creation, and what it shows me about the creator.

333 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:41:42pm

just have a second look at this guy.

I dare you. No I double dog dare you not to laugh

334 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:01pm

re: #330 capefear

I really have no idea what your talking about.

Perhaps you should spend less time attacking Charles, and more time studying the lessons of Jesus.

336 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:28pm

re: #319 TaeJohnDo

You sir (or ma'am) are a gentleman. Or gentlewoman ... (Political Correctness sucks ...)

LOL!

Not me, I'm an equal opportunity offender.

My favorite bumper sticker of all time.....

NUKE ALL THE UNBORN GAY WHALES FOR JESUS

337 Killian Bundy  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:35pm

re: #329 middlecon

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Allow me.

/here is your hand basket, bon voyage

338 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:42:40pm

re: #247 Thanos

I'm right there with you. While neo-nazis, scientologists, leftist crystal worshippers, etc. all have the right to teach their children what they want, I don't have to respect them for it either.

Definitely. I don't want to live in a society that would place controls on what I teach to my own (hypothetical) children. But I certainly don't want nutbars of any stripe using the public school system to indoctrinate my kids or yours in their particular brand of nonsense.

339 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:43:12pm

re: #328 capefear

Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

Did you see my:
#310 pre-Boomer Marine brat ?

340 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:43:22pm

re: #329 middlecon

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Well, I certainly haven't done that. I think it's pretty obvious that the creationism hooey is almost exclusively coming from the fanatical religious right.

341 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:08pm

re: #333 Shug

just have a second look at this guy.

I dare you. No I double dog dare you not to laugh

looks like he is fixing to pick up the 7-10 split....with a puny ball

342 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:13pm

re: #328 capefear

Because I have been told over and over by people on this blog that Charles only is concerned with "religious beliefs being taught in school"
That's not true Charles, said it's not true, and I want that to be very clear.

Why are you here? To put ditto marks after everything Charles says.

I have yet to see Charles say anyone can not teach what they want in the privacy of their own homes, only what can and should be taught in PUBLIC schools as SCIENCE. So your mis-statements here are not earning you anything but contempt by a large segment of the lizards, especially this one.

Why am I here? One reason, amongst many, is to be amused by the righteous indignation of self-anointed martyr complex nutroots.

343 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:27pm
cleavage is simply an expression of planes of weaker bonding in preferred directions.


re: #295 Alberta Oil Peon

Tell that to my girlfriend.

344 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:34pm

re: #334 Sharmuta


You know what on that point your right. I didn't plan on spending a lot of time on here but got sucked in. I just hope I never see the lie that "charles only wants to keep creationism from being taught in school" ever repeated again.

345 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:46pm

re: #329 middlecon

One thing I don't get is anyone who somehow allies the thoughts of Creationism with Democrats/Obama. Sure the 2 things are goofy but any rational person has to admit that the political idealogy of anyone who actually believes creationism is most likely from people on the 'religious right'.

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Huh?!

Who's done that?

346 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:44:57pm

re: #333 Shug

just have a second look at this guy.

I dare you. No I double dog dare you not to laugh

This is mine brain!

347 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:45:10pm
348 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:45:25pm

re: #333 Shug

Kind of jumped off the page and into our nightmares!

349 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:45:38pm

re: #335 Thanos

Why democrats sometimes get elected in purely red states. Read it and weep.

In reality there are very few 'red states' with some kind of monopoly with absolutely no elected Democrats. Sure creationism could be one reason, I live in a red state but we've had more Democratic governors than Republican and both state houses have been controlled by Democrats for most of the last 15-20 years.

350 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:15pm

re: #327 alegrias

* * *
It's gentleperson and don't you forget it! Gender is so...so...conservative.

You sound like a new age American Episcopalian.

What a great list this is! Baptist, Catholic, Atheist, Episcopalian, Kooks ... coming together to spread the good lizard word!

351 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:24pm

re: #339 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Did you see my:
#310 pre-Boomer Marine brat ?

He is doing his best Obama/Biden imitation of ignoring inconvenient questions/comments.

352 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:38pm

re: #341 Outrider

looks like he is fixing to pick up the 7-10 split....with a puny ball

Funniest thing I've read all year

353 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:46:45pm

Does anyone else wonder if Obama will pick Ray Nagin for Director of FEMA if things go bad on November 4th?

354 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:47:05pm

This idiot was actually on the Kansas State Board of Education: Abrams looking to bring State BOE experience to the Senate.

Abrams calls himself a "young Earth creationist," according to the Religion News Service. The science standards he backed in 1999 raised questions about the theory of evolution and left room for alternative theories on the origin of man, including creationism based on the Bible's book of Genesis, to be taught.

Abrams insists, however, that he never said creationism should be taught.

Working with a creationist group based in Missouri, Abrams helped develop and then submitted to the board their alternative proposal for science standards, a version of which passed after the 1998 elections brought a supportive majority to the board.

The story is told in "Kansas Tornado," a booklet published in 1999 by the Institute for Creation Research.

Gov. Bill Graves, a Republican, strongly opposed the new standards.

Abrams had set out in 1998 to defeat Graves in the GOP primary, but he dropped out after David Miller, the eventual nominee, entered the race. Graves handily defeated Miller, an early leader of the still-active conservative Republican Assembly.

Abrams served as chairman of the state Republican Party for a short period after conservatives took control in 1998.

Although trained in science, Abrams told the Religion News Service he believed God created the Earth in six 24-hour days less than 10,000 years ago. "At some point in time, if you compare evolution and the Bible, you have to decide which one you believe; that's the bottom line," Abrams said in 2005, according to the Kansas City Star.

One has to take Genesis on faith, Abrams said.

355 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:06pm

Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Good grief.

356 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:24pm

re: #344 capefear

It's stunning to see people who claim to believe in the teachings of Jesus engage in such un-Christian behavior such as you're doing right now. I think Christians from all denominations should be appalled how harmful this so-called religious line of thinking is to the faith. Instead of promoting the faith- creationists are driving people from it. I'm sure Jesus is thrilled by that.

357 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:43pm

re: #78 taxfreekiller

Comment #78 is the only illusion in this thread somehow saying that the Dems are going to endorese ID.

I completely agree that Charles has never said this.

358 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:48:49pm

re: #355 Charles

Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Good grief.

Mmmmm, doesn't that just make it all ok. *BLECH*

359 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:50:12pm
360 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:50:16pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

It's stunning to see people who claim to believe in the teachings of Jesus engage in such un-Christian behavior such as you're doing right now. I think Christians from all denominations should be appalled how harmful this so-called religious line of thinking is to the faith. Instead of promoting the faith- creationists are driving people from it. I'm sure Jesus is thrilled by that.

I guess the 11th Commandment is lie to unbelievers so as to achieve the World-Wide Church.

361 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:50:27pm

Gotta go watch Alabama beat Tennessee now.

Roll tide!

362 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:04pm

re: #355 Charles

Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Good grief.

Just another reason for republican Lizards to get involved in the party at the local level. That's where it all starts. Because reasonable republicans don't take the time to work within the party, people like this Abrams guy are allowed to advance to embarrassing heights.

363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:12pm

re: #361 TaeJohnDo

War Eagle!

364 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:19pm

re: #351 FurryOldGuyJeans

He is doing his best Obama/Biden imitation of ignoring inconvenient questions/comments.

(-:

365 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:51:56pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

It's stunning to see people who claim to believe in the teachings of Jesus engage in such un-Christian behavior such as you're doing right now. I think Christians from all denominations should be appalled how harmful this so-called religious line of thinking is to the faith. Instead of promoting the faith- creationists are driving people from it. I'm sure Jesus is thrilled by that.

WWJD a motto to live by.

BTW as Christian I loathe that.

366 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:52:13pm

re: #332 JCM

Where does the Biblical account say 6000 years? That number comes from Bishop Ussher who made a number of mistakes in reading the Jewish genealogies.

I suggest you do a little more Bible study, in the original languages you don't need to know Greek and Hebrew just have a Interlinear Bible, a good concordance and Greek and Hebrew dictionaries.

Case in point Yowm translated into "day" in Genesis.

The Bible is primary a spiritual text, not a historical or scientific text.

Finally consider this. I believe in the Creator. I also believe in his creation, and what it shows me about the creator.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

367 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:52:20pm

re: #360 FurryOldGuyJeans

I guess the 11th Commandment is lie to unbelievers so as to achieve the World-Wide Church.

I'm sure some will be offended by the suggestion that it's vaguely reminiscent of another religion.

368 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:52:21pm

re: #363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

War Eagle!

I'll pray for your soul. ;p)

369 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:53:41pm

Finally just what the creationists need.

A rock hard brain to co-ordinate with their thick skulls.

370 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:53:58pm

re: #365 JCM

WWJD a motto to live by.

BTW as Christian I loathe that.

I had to really scratch my head about what WWJD stood for before it became "obvious". I had a flash of World Wide JihaD, d'oh! ;)

371 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:02pm

re: #311 capefear

No your wrong. Charles said on the last thread he thinks its child abuse and a threat to the country for people to teach their children the Biblical account of creation in their own homes.

This his quote:

I'm not ashamed at all to say that I have no respect for the ideology of creationism. And if you teach your children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and dinosaurs were around at the same time as people, and that scientists are evil atheistic monsters trying to destroy your religion -- yes, I do indeed consider that a form of child abuse. You're taking a young mind and indoctrinating it to reject science, and that's simply wrong.

A bit of difference in wording--and meaning.

372 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:17pm

Why is it called dark energy/dark matter?

373 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:38pm

re: #350 TaeJohnDo

You sound like a new age American Episcopalian.

What a great list this is! Baptist, Catholic, Atheist, Episcopalian, Kooks ... coming together to spread the good lizard word!

You have no idea how right you are or how poignant your comment is to me. I am an orthodox Episcopalian, and I am appalled by the direction of The Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Pittsburgh has voted to realign with the more traditional Anglican Southern Cone, but my parish church is more disposed to stay in TEC. It's very painful to me because I feel very strongly spiritually that realignment is the correct choice, but my parish is like family to me. It's a very difficult time for me,

374 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:54:40pm
375 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:55:25pm

re: #343 Attaboid

Tell that to my girlfriend.

I'm gonna need pictures...

376 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:55:26pm

re: #367 Sharmuta

I'm sure some will be offended by the suggestion that it's vaguely reminiscent of another religion.

That kinda was my intent. Afflict the comfortable and self-anointed righteous.

377 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:56:20pm

re: #363 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

War Eagle!

My son goes to Alabama -- got a full scholarship, so I support the team.

UNM Lobos -- 1981
USC Trojans -- 1989
SIUE Cougars -- 1995

But you can't beat SEC football. The best!

378 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:56:24pm

re: #374 MandyManners

Tttthhhhhhppppppppppptttt.

{MandyMannes}

Be sure to check your email...

379 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:57:22pm

re: #366 Lynn B.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

Bring Einsteins laws of relativity into the timeframe given for the worlds existance and it is INHERANTLY POSSIBLE that for a being that existed outside the contextual framework of the single Earth gravitational environ that when we are talking about gods creation of the world, it may be possible to envision a larger timescale being implemented in a shorter timeframe.

Summing up nicely, Gods time aint ours.

380 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:57:47pm

"What would Jesus do?"

Often people jump to the conclusion that Jesus would just schlep off somewhere to a corner and sing kumbaya.

If you read the life of Jesus you see that He was very direct and often confrontational. Being one of His followers, I have never felt it was my obligation to always go along to get along.

I raised my children according to my beliefs, which include the innerrancy of the Word of God. I stand on that and am not ashamed or embarassed by it.

381 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:58:22pm

re: #372 Attaboid

Why is it called dark energy/dark matter?

Dark Matter, Dark Energy.

382 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:58:31pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

[Link: babybluecafe.blogspot.com...]

I stumbled on the above site a few years ago and follow the saga. My prayers go out to you.

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:58:33pm

re: #377 TaeJohnDo

Actually, I'm an ACC guy. Was just being cantankerous.

384 legalpad  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:59:10pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

I was raised Episcopalian. My Uncle was a Bishop and a great guy. But wow, down here they are very left and very political. My own faith has been through many iterations.

385 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:59:36pm

re: #378 goddessoftheclassroom

I will do so post haste.

BTW, Alabama 3, Tenn 0.

386 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 4:59:40pm

re: #366 Lynn B.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

There is a consistently, while not exact to the Biblical expulsion from garden and the curse to till the earth and the development of agriculture in Mesopotamia.

It's not exact, doesn't prove a thing, but is consistent and could be explained a number of ways.

387 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:00:28pm

re: #376 FurryOldGuyJeans

That kinda was my intent. Afflict the comfortable and self-anointed righteous.

BTW, did you ever read The Gospel According to Peanuts by Robert L. Short? Great book about the VERY EARLY Peanuts strips. He compares Snoopy to the Hound of Heaven.

388 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:00:40pm

re: #370 FurryOldGuyJeans

I had to really scratch my head about what WWJD stood for before it became "obvious". I had a flash of World Wide JihaD, d'oh! ;)

LOL! It's quite popular in Christian circles.

389 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:00:59pm

re: #378 goddessoftheclassroom

Yo.

390 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:16pm

re: #382 TaeJohnDo

[Link: babybluecafe.blogspot.com...]

I stumbled on the above site a few years ago and follow the saga. My prayers go out to you.

Thank you so much, both for the link and for your prayers.

391 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:16pm

re: #372 Attaboid

Why is it called dark energy/dark matter?

Racist!

/ ;-P

392 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:28pm

re: #379 Buster Bunny

Summing up nicely, Gods time aint ours.

Exactly!

393 pat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:01:29pm

In another sign of the financial meltdown, McDonald's has delayed the release of its 1/3 pound Angus burger. With Obama in office, it is unlikely we ever shall. Obama already feels we eat too much.
[Link: www.upi.com...]

Or perhaps that is just white folks. Hard to tell with the Messiah.

394 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:02:43pm

re: #385 TaeJohnDo

I will do so post haste.

BTW, Alabama 3, Tenn 0.

Bama just fumbled at the 5.

Damn. But you are happy so my work here is done.

(Damn! Damn! Damn!)

395 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:02:56pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

{gotc}

It's like another divorce.

396 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:27pm
397 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:32pm

Yep, the Randall Terry crowd in charge of the Republican party in KS is why I have Dennis Moore -D as a congresscritter.

398 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:42pm

re: #393 pat

In another sign of the financial meltdown, McDonald's has delayed the release of its 1/3 pound Angus burger. With Obama in office, it is unlikely we ever shall. Obama already feels we eat too much.
[Link: www.upi.com...]

Or perhaps that is just white folks. Hard to tell with the Messiah.

The Messiah has a goal when it comes to individual food consumption.

399 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:04:43pm

re: #390 goddessoftheclassroom

Thank you so much, both for the link and for your prayers.

You are most welcome. I don't post too often there -- but if you see one from Anonymous Catholic, that's most likely me.

400 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:05:14pm

re: #396 taxfreekiller

the religious right will not roll over for the commie way,

you got that right, tfk

401 Attaboid  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:06:29pm

Heard an ad for A&W burgers. They now have an "Uncle Burger".
?Hello Tom!

402 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:06:47pm

re: #393 pat

In another sign of the financial meltdown, McDonald's has delayed the release of its 1/3 pound Angus burger. With Obama in office, it is unlikely we ever shall. Obama already feels we eat too much.
[Link: www.upi.com...]

Or perhaps that is just white folks. Hard to tell with the Messiah.

Try the new McObama

No meat, full of waffle
Spreads the fat around and exists on a stale bun.
Lettuce and Sauce is extra.

But is nice for a 'Change'

403 Gorgon Zola  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:07:25pm

re: #279 Charles

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

Papaya?

404 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:08:22pm

Barney Frank tells us how he plans to pay for all of Obama's new government programs:

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said Democrats will push for a stimulus package after the November election, and called for a package reducing defense spending by 25 percent while saying Congress will "eventually" raise taxes.


Another brick in the wall on why they need to be beaten.

405 Syrah  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:08:43pm

re: #381 FurryOldGuyJeans

Dark Matter, Dark Energy.

So speaking then about dark energy and the accelerating rate of expansion of the universe, we can visualize it as a type of anti-gravity.

With gravity, on object will fall into the well at an an accelerating rate. With anti-gravity, on object would likewise then fall out of the well at an accelerating rate.

When you have a spinning disk, and you drop a marble into the center of the disk, it moves slowly at first to the outer edge, rapidly (exponentially?) increasing its speed towards the edge the further from the center that it gets.

Am I stumbling in the right direction?

406 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:09:25pm

Did capefear run away?

Yeesh, ask a reasonable question.......

407 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:09:30pm
408 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:09:31pm

re: #404 JCM

reducing defense spending by 25 percent

That's our troops folks.

They are going to weaken us militarily, economically and socially.

409 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:10:18pm

re: #408 mama winger

That's our troops folks.

They are going to weaken us militarily, economically and socially.

Speaking of troops...
How's little winger?

410 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:10:30pm

re: #277 JCM

No prayers for the damned I guess....
How very Christian.

no sarc.

The damned have forsaken themselves. They have willingly separated themselves from God's love.

/Do you think they should have indefinite appeals?

411 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:11:12pm

re: #279 Charles

Now can you tell me what I had for breakfast?

(It's far enough down-thread, and that discussion's died, so I'll throw this guess in.)

Cold anchovy/pineapple pizza

412 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:12:11pm

re: #406 JCM

Did capefear run away?

Yeesh, ask a reasonable question.......

Was more interested in feeling persecuted.

413 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:12:13pm

re: #409 JCM

Speaking of troops...
How's little winger?

I am hoping I don't get a call from the FBI tonight. We spent the afternoon in the garage make Halloween costumes. (Think militant islam. Think KABOOM )

I think a couple of neighbors spotted us and may have placed a call.......

414 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:12:27pm

re: #411 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You can't get anchovies on a pizza on the left coast anymore. Hell, it was even hard to find in Chicago.

415 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:13:19pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

You can't get anchovies on a pizza on the left coast anymore. Hell, it was even hard to find in Chicago.

Western Civilization is collapsing!

416 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:13:57pm

re: #411 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(It's far enough down-thread, and that discussion's died, so I'll throw this guess in.)

Cold anchovy
/pineapple pizza


You're a friggin genius!

417 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:14:08pm

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

418 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:14:55pm
419 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:20pm

re: #417 mama winger

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

So now you can watch SEC football on ESPN!

420 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:23pm

re: #416 HoosierHoops

Cold anchovy/pineapple pizza

You're a friggin genius!

OH NO YOU DON'T!

421 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:25pm

re: #417 mama winger

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

This is good for me...I can watch Penn State/Ohio State without having to switch back and forth all the time lol

422 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:37pm

re: #414 Killgore Trout

Anchovies? Blech!

423 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:38pm

re: #373 goddessoftheclassroom

You have no idea how right you are or how poignant your comment is to me. I am an orthodox Episcopalian, and I am appalled by the direction of The Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Pittsburgh has voted to realign with the more traditional Anglican Southern Cone, but my parish church is more disposed to stay in TEC. It's very painful to me because I feel very strongly spiritually that realignment is the correct choice, but my parish is like family to me. It's a very difficult time for me,

I am an Orthodox, formerly Episcopalian who saw the writing on the wall twenty years ago. So I left.

424 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:15:44pm

re: #418 taxfreekiller

'Revenge' is a godd choice of words, tfk. I think there will be a lot of that going around, if the worst happens and O is elected.

425 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:00pm

re: #410 experiencedtraveller

The damned have forsaken themselves. They have willingly separated themselves from God's love.

/Do you think they should have indefinite appeals?

The Prodigal Son.

426 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:15pm

re: #413 mama winger

I am hoping I don't get a call from the FBI tonight. We spent the afternoon in the garage make Halloween costumes. (Think militant islam. Think KABOOM )

I think a couple of neighbors spotted us and may have placed a call.......

Some people don't find that funny.

427 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:37pm

re: #413 mama winger

I am hoping I don't get a call from the FBI tonight. We spent the afternoon in the garage make Halloween costumes. (Think militant islam. Think KABOOM )

I think a couple of neighbors spotted us and may have placed a call.......

LOL!

Any black helicopters over head?

428 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:40pm

re: #423 victor_yugo

Was it a big switch for you to go Orthodox?

429 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:16:52pm

re: #422 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anchovies? Blech!

You have no taste.

/after all those anchovies, neither do I

430 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:17:18pm

re: #422 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Protein and fish oil would do you some good, hippie.

431 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:17:30pm

re: #421 middlecon

This is good for me...I can watch Penn State/Ohio State without having to switch back and forth all the time lol

Or you could watch Alabama beat Tennessee.
(I sure hope they win this game or they will be hell to pay ... )

432 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:18:26pm

re: #430 Killgore Trout

heh.

433 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:18:40pm

re: #426 Lynn B.

Some people don't find that funny.

I know - my daughter saw similar articles and got a little nervous ( her costume involves a burka and KABOOM)

But the party is a Wisconsin Snowmobile Club group - so I think they'll be okay. I told them to give me a call if they need to be bailed out in the middle of the night.

434 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:18:45pm

re: #431 TaeJohnDo

Or you could watch Alabama beat Tennessee.
(I sure hope they win this game or they will be hell to pay ... )

I meant to say "...or there will be hell to pay."

435 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:19:05pm

re: #334 Sharmuta

Perhaps you should spend less time attacking Charles, and more time studying the lessons of Jesus.

Charles is an easier target. Spiritual growth is tough.

436 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:19:26pm

re: #417 mama winger

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

Yep. Some pretty nasty storms passing through these parts (SW Pa).

437 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:19:35pm

re: #435 FurryOldGuyJeans

UP-DING!

438 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:20:26pm

re: #435 FurryOldGuyJeans

Charles is an easier target. Spiritual growth is tough.

Come on ... I'm not that easy of a target. Heh.

439 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:20:43pm

re: #436 Lynn B.

Yep. Some pretty nasty storms passing through these parts (SW Pa).

Stay safe.

440 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:20:44pm

re: #431 TaeJohnDo

Or you could watch Alabama beat Tennessee.
(I sure hope they win this game or they will be hell to pay ... )

Oh sur..Bama finally starts to win football games..and now if they lose..there is hell to pay?
excuse me..just got off the floor from laughing.. )

441 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:21:20pm

re: #436 Lynn B.

Ok. That was an interesting slip.

I'm in SE PA. Where the storms are and the WS game is.

/grew up in Pittsburgh tho.

442 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:21:22pm

re: #406 JCM

Did capefear run away?

Yeesh, ask a reasonable question.......

Ask ANY questions and the self-anointed martyrs tend to find solace some place else.

443 Basho  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:21:29pm

The case of ID v ID:
[Link: pandasthumb.org...]

Good summary of ID and the opinions of leaders in the ID movement.

444 jim in virginia  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:21:33pm

re: #425 JCM Paul: Nothing can separate us from the love of God.....

445 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:22:27pm

re: #440 HoosierHoops

Oh sur..Bama finally starts to win football games..and now if they lose..there is hell to pay?
excuse me..just got off the floor from laughing.. )

Not what I meant -- I meant I'll be dumped on for my smug arrogance, which is just a part of SEC football, BTW.

446 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:22:36pm

re: #438 Charles

Come on ... I'm not that easy of a target. Heh.

I did say EASIER, but I do stand humbled. :)

447 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:22:46pm

re: #444 jim in virginia

Paul: Nothing can separate us from the love of God.....

you betcha

448 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:23:09pm

re: #435 FurryOldGuyJeans

Charles is an easier target. Spiritual growth is tough.

The later requires self examination.

449 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:23:27pm

re: #439 mama winger

Stay safe.

Thanks, Mama. I'm in for the night. Tomorrow I'll have to go out and replace the McCain/Palin lawn sign that (ahem) I see blew away in the storm. Or something.

450 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:23:59pm

re: #395 mama winger

{gotc}

It's like another divorce.

EXACTLY.

451 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:24:36pm

re: #448 JCM

The later requires self examination.

My wife was doing a self breast exam and I walked into the room. I just had one word...

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

452 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:24:38pm

re: #449 Lynn B.

Thanks, Mama. I'm in for the night. Tomorrow I'll have to go out and replace the McCain/Palin lawn sign that (ahem) I see blew away in the storm. Or something.

A storm of convenience, eh? A Perfect Storm of Obamatons?

453 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:24:38pm

re: #448 JCM

The later requires self examination.

I remember thats what I tried to tell my mother I was doing!

454 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:24:49pm

re: #449 Lynn B.

Thanks, Mama. I'm in for the night. Tomorrow I'll have to go out and replace the McCain/Palin lawn sign that (ahem) I see blew away in the storm. Or something.

LOL

So far mine is doing okay. I really am not seeing many signs for EITHER side this time around. I wonder what that means? There were a lot more signs and bumper stickers 4 years ago I think.

455 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:24:50pm

re: #445 TaeJohnDo

Not what I meant -- I meant I'll be dumped on for my smug arrogance, which is just a part of SEC football, BTW.

I was just teasing you..You go on with your smug arrogance..
It's the beauty of college football...
Regards..

456 legalpad  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:25:15pm

I think the problem with so many beliefs and belief systems is the group pressure to conform. So the individual finds it difficult to learn something new and adopt a new view. The tragic flaw in the right is a few religiously based policies which give them endless battles with the left which the left regularly use as distractions from the real money issues.

457 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:25:45pm

re: #448 JCM

The later requires self examination.

And sometimes that self-examination comes with "someone" (figuratively) holding you by the scruff of the neck.

/Praise God that he's done it to me

458 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:26:19pm

re: #457 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And sometimes that self-examination comes with "someone" (figuratively) holding you by the scruff of the neck.

/Praise God that he's done it to me

I was fortunate. I never let my neck get scruffy!

459 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:26:30pm

re: #450 goddessoftheclassroom

EXACTLY.

I needed to elave my church home after my divorce. It was really hard. But you can still stay in touch with your friends. It's just hard finding a place where you feel like you fit again. Takes time. But God's people are God's people - same wherever you go.

460 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:26:55pm

re: #451 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

MANDY! Sitting duck on aisle 451!

461 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:27:04pm

re: #458 sattv4u2

I was fortunate. I never let my neck get scruffy!

Just the rest of you, eh? ;)

/ducks

462 TaeJohnDo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:27:31pm

re: #455 HoosierHoops

I was just teasing you..You go on with your smug arrogance..
It's the beauty of college football...
Regards..

Yup!

And you!

463 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:27:35pm

re: #456 legalpad

One person's tragic flaw is another person's line in the sand.

:)

464 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:27:48pm

re: #461 FurryOldGuyJeans

Just the rest of you, eh? ;)

/ducks

okay, okay ,, so I shaved my back ,, but just that one time !

465 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:28:01pm

re: #453 sattv4u2

I remember thats what I tried to tell my mother I was doing!

You wear glasses and have hairy palms now right?

466 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:28:04pm

re: #451 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My wife was doing a self breast exam and I walked into the room. I just had one word...

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Would you have preferred to do the breast examination yourself? ;)

467 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:28:22pm

re: #464 sattv4u2

okay, okay ,, so I shaved my back ,, but just that one time !

Why not wax?

468 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:28:34pm

By the way, teaching creationism in schools is a plank of the Alaskan GOP Party Platform:

We support teaching various models and theories for the origins of life and our universe, including Creation Science or Intelligent Design. If evolution outside a species (macro-evolution) is taught, evidence disputing the theory should also be presented.

469 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:28:46pm

re: #465 JCM

You wear glasses and have hairy palms now right?

worse. I have glassy palms!

470 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:14pm

re: #467 MandyManners

Why not wax?

well, theres the pain. And then, theres the pain!

471 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:25pm

re: #467 MandyManners

Why not wax?

You asked.

472 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:38pm

re: #458 sattv4u2

I was fortunate. I never let my neck get scruffy!

I don't know whether to compliment you/give thanks on this one ... or whack you for 453.

Aw th' hell w' it ... *WHACK* !

473 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:39pm

re: #469 sattv4u2

worse. I have glassy palms!

LOL!

474 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:41pm

re: #366 Lynn B.

According to Jewish tradition, it's been just a few weeks more than 5769 years since the first man was created. That dating precedes Bishop Ussher by a bit. How long the five "days" before that lasted is, I guess, a little murkier.

Jewish tradition also has it that on the day man was created (the Sixth Day of Creation), Adam and Eve sinned and they were expelled from the Garden of Eden while also having given birth to Cain and Abel.

All this happened on the Sixth Day, which means that it's also longer than 24 hours.

Rosh HaShanah is the anniversary of when man was created, but at what part of that day? If the first five days of Creation took 15 billion years, then there's no way of telling how long the sixth day lasted either.

It's not something to worry about, though, as most of us agree here.

G-d made the world and science figures out the complexity of G-d's world. So science should left alone to do this. The Jewish Bible isn't a science or history book, so the general story about how the universe was created isn't threatened by scientific discoveries.

Finding out how incredibly complex G-d has made the world is a nice thing to appreciate (as G-d's work) in religion classes. It's not needed in science classes.

475 jim in virginia  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:42pm

{mama winger}
{gotc}
Off to bed soon. Tomorrow I will be in the presence of far better men (and women) than me.
MCM 2008.
Yep, I'm crazy. Pray for me?

476 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:43pm

re: #417 mama winger

World Series rain delay

dagnabbit

Aaargh. Do you think Fate would be so cruel as to make both the Phillies and McCain lose in the space of a week?/

477 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:29:48pm

re: #464 sattv4u2

okay, okay ,, so I shaved my back ,, but just that one time !

Shaving myself is like painting the Golden Gate Bridge; it is a constant job that takes one year to do so as soon as you are finished at one end you have to start all over at the other end. ;)

478 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:30:22pm

re: #471 JCM

You asked.

does it disturb anyone else that JCM had that close by?

479 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:30:55pm

re: #475 jim in virginia

{mama winger}
{gotc}
Off to bed soon. Tomorrow I will be in the presence of far better men (and women) than me.
MCM 2008.
Yep, I'm crazy. Pray for me?

YOU'RE CRAZY ! ! !


and I will :)

480 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:01pm

re: #474 Adina in Judea


All this happened on the Sixth Day, which means that it's also longer than 24 hours.

They were fast workers?

481 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:16pm
482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:23pm

re: #467 MandyManners

Why not wax?

Oh, maybe this is why!

483 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:23pm

re: #478 sattv4u2

does it disturb anyone else that JCM had that close by?

ROFLMAO!

484 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:25pm

Against Dennis Moore this year we might have a chance, Nick Jordan, a pretty strong fiscal conservative is running against him. Nick's a science supporter.

485 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:31pm

re: #428 mama winger

Was it a big switch for you to go Orthodox?

Not as big as it could have been: I'm multi-lingual. ;-)

As for beliefs and practices, it was actually a find in the Gospel according to St. John that was the point of no return.

Everything since then has just been... well, how to explain it? Kind of like when the poor girl finds out she's actually a princess who was hidden away from the wicked Minister of the Interior when she was still a baby, never knows she's royalty until all of a sudden SURPRISE she can come out of hiding, and the next thing you know she's wearing gems and gold and embroidered silk , she has someone to do her hair every morning and wash her clothes every evening, fresh linens on the bed as soon as she gets up, ladies-in-waiting curtseying and saying "good morning, Madame" as she walks by on her way to study her ancestry and the ancient traditions she is now expected to uphold. For several years she didn't know where she came from, didn't think it really mattered, but now she wants to absorb it as quickly as possible, so she can be ready to make her people proud in saying, "Long live the Queen!".

Kind of like that.

486 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:33pm

re: #470 sattv4u2

well, theres the pain. And then, theres the pain!

Hey Satt! good seeing you..you still working?
Did you ever see the movie the 40 year old virgin? No Wax allowed..that scene still makes me laugh

487 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:34pm

re: #476 arethusa

Aaargh. Do you think Fate would be so cruel as to make both the Phillies and McCain lose in the space of a week?/

Absolutely not. McCain is going to win. I'm not so sure about the Phillies :)

488 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:31:38pm

re: #441 Lynn B.

Better than a Murtha "slip"!

489 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:32:09pm

re: #478 sattv4u2

does it disturb anyone else that JCM had that close by?

Disturbs me even more you would be questioning it. ;)

490 capefear  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:32:22pm

re: #356 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, you're right. I have become obsessed with getting my point across here. I've gotten nasty and sarcastic and maybe self-pitying too.
Even if I have a point, the way I have been expressing myself is wrong for a Christian to do. I'm sorry to have put Christians in such a bad light here. I wish I could start again an be more civil but all I can do now is apologize. I'm going to try my best to stay off this thing.

491 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:32:40pm

re: #478 sattv4u2

does it disturb anyone else that JCM had that close by?

No. I know him.

*duck*

492 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:32:56pm
493 jim in virginia  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:32:58pm

re: #454 mama winger
We are deep blue territory here. In 2004 and 2008 we were the only house of 22 on the block with a Bush sign. This year there are four. And fewer O signs than there were Kerry signs four years ago.
Who knows what it means?

494 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:33:10pm

re: #468 Charles

Has anyone decided what exactly creationism is? It strikes me that the definition remains excessively vague to keep as many supporters on board as possible.

495 quickjustice  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:33:26pm

If these people stuck to their Bibles, they could do great good. By debasing science, they're doing great harm.

496 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:33:45pm

re: #485 victor_yugo

My goodness. I love that description. Beautiful.

I am going to read your essay on it as well..... I am interested too in a possible switch. Thank you!

497 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:34:03pm

re: #486 HoosierHoops

Hey Satt! good seeing you..you still working?
Did you ever see the movie the 40 year old virgin? No Wax allowed..that scene still makes me laugh

Yes and Yes
here (at work) today and tomorrow 10-10
today, College football up the ying yang and now sending the (delayed) Series game to Europe
Tomorrow, 3 NFL games and then UCF/ Tulsa college football

At least I get Monday and Tuesday off!

498 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:34:18pm

re: #494 jaunte

Has anyone decided what exactly creationism is? It strikes me that the definition remains excessively vague to keep as many supporters on board as possible.

Sounds a lot like Obama and what he believes and professes, strangely enough.

499 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:34:44pm

re: #443 Basho

The case of ID v ID:
[Link: pandasthumb.org...]

Good summary of ID and the opinions of leaders in the ID movement.

The cognitive dissonance on display in that post at Panda's Thumb is a perfect example of what happens when your entire enterprise is based on lies. The people who are supposed to be representing you will find it hard to keep all the lies straight. Discovery Institute shills are always doing this -- inadvertently revealing the truth of what they're doing.

500 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:10pm

re: #490 capefear

Peace be with you.

Perhaps a good place to start would be to read thoroughly what it is Charles is objecting to in regards to the Discovery Institute. I didn't understand it at first, but once I read into it, I came to agree with Charles. Hope that helps.

501 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:17pm

re: #498 FurryOldGuyJeans

Could be the definition of a movement that prizes political power above clarity.

502 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:18pm

OT but did you know Marilyn Monroe's progressive enlightened husband, Arthur Miller, had a Down Syndrome baby with his 3rd wife Inge Morath 40 or so years ago and "Miller promptly clapped the boy into an institution--according to the article [in Vanity Fair], not a first class one either--and never saw the child again.

Wow, a genius known for "excoriating the putative cruelties of capitalism and the endless barbarities of his own country's governments..." sent his own son into a GULAG!

from "Loathing Sarah Palin: The Two Months Hate of Feminists" by Joseph Epstein in the 10/27 issue of The Weekly Standard

503 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:19pm

re: #491 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No. I know him.

*duck*

Always nice to know who my friends are!

;-)

504 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:20pm

re: #474 Adina in Judea

...

G-d made the world and science figures out the complexity of G-d's world. So science should left alone to do this. The Jewish Bible isn't a science or history book, so the general story about how the universe was created isn't threatened by scientific discoveries.

The Hebrew Bible certainly is not a science book, but I'm surprised to see you say that it's not a history book. I believe a lot of it certainly is a history book, though not in the literal sense that one would hope such books are written today. Parts of that history are being verified by archeological discoveries in Israel almost every day.

505 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:24pm

re: #493 jim in virginia

We are deep blue territory here. In 2004 and 2008 we were the only house of 22 on the block with a Bush sign. This year there are four. And fewer O signs than there were Kerry signs four years ago.
Who knows what it means?

Took your neighbors 4-8 years to get a Bush sign?

j/k

506 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:45pm

re: #480 JCM

re: #474 Adina in Judea

All this happened on the Sixth Day, which means that it's also longer than 24 hours.

They were fast workers?

Yeah, I guess! :)

As mentioned elsewhere, the Jewish Bible starts out with vast amounts of time passing and then slowing down as the Five Books of Moses goes along.

The first two chapters of the Torah (out of 54 chapters) takes up 2000 years while the last entire book of 11 chapters takes up a little over 30 days.

It seems like a hint to me that a lot of time passed during Creation - probably 15 billion years or so.

507 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:35:46pm

re: #497 sattv4u2

Yes and Yes
here (at work) today and tomorrow 10-10
today, College football up the ying yang and now sending the (delayed) Series game to Europe
Tomorrow, 3 NFL games and then UCF/ Tulsa college football

At least I get Monday and Tuesday off!

well crap..did you see the movie the Sting? you have the feed..I got the suckers that bet..we could make millions!
HAHA...

508 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:36:16pm

re: #466 FurryOldGuyJeans

Would you have preferred to do the breast examination yourself? ;)

Some couples like that.

509 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:36:23pm

re: #503 JCM

Always nice to know who my friends are!

;-)

Better to know where they keep the knives. ;)

510 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:36:42pm

re: #476 arethusa

Aaargh. Do you think Fate would be so cruel as to make both the Phillies and McCain lose in the space of a week?/

Noooooooooo!

511 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:37:15pm

Sample St. Louis ballot arrived today.

Interesting--one can no longer vote a straight party ticket (I never did it, anyway, but they've changed that in the past 4 years).

Five parties for President: Republican, Dem, Libertarian, Constitution, and Independent (Nader--thought he was a Green party candidate).

McCain's name is first on the list, which is pretty cool.

No middle names listed...

512 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:38:04pm

CHARLES

OT,,, do I get a secret decoder ring or something once I hit 10,000 posts (I'm at 9,420 and counting)

513 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:38:26pm

re: #511 Palandine

Sample St. Louis ballot arrived today.

Interesting--one can no longer vote a straight party ticket (I never did it, anyway, but they've changed that in the past 4 years).

Five parties for President: Republican, Dem, Libertarian, Constitution, and Independent (Nader--thought he was a Green party candidate).

McCain's name is first on the list, which is pretty cool.

No middle names listed...

Cindy McKinney is the Greenie this time around. At least she is here in WA State on my absentee ballot.

514 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:38:46pm

I don't like all this early voting. Absentee ballots I can see. But early voting? Isn't Election Day defined in the Constitution? Why do we have to vote early?

515 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:38:48pm

re: #511 Palandine

Sample St. Louis ballot arrived today.

Interesting--one can no longer vote a straight party ticket (I never did it, anyway, but they've changed that in the past 4 years).

Five parties for President: Republican, Dem, Libertarian, Constitution, and Independent (Nader--thought he was a Green party candidate).

McCain's name is first on the list, which is pretty cool.

No middle names listed...


Cindy (tinfoil hat) McKinney

516 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:39:34pm

re: #490 capefear

Sharmuta, you're right. I have become obsessed with getting my point across here. I've gotten nasty and sarcastic and maybe self-pitying too.
Even if I have a point, the way I have been expressing myself is wrong for a Christian to do. I'm sorry to have put Christians in such a bad light here. I wish I could start again an be more civil but all I can do now is apologize. I'm going to try my best to stay off this thing.

My God be with you closely.
No hard feelings here. None at all.

517 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:39:34pm

re: #506 Adina in Judea

Yeah, I guess! :)

As mentioned elsewhere, the Jewish Bible starts out with vast amounts of time passing and then slowing down as the Five Books of Moses goes along.

The first two chapters of the Torah (out of 54 chapters) takes up 2000 years while the last entire book of 11 chapters takes up a little over 30 days.

It seems like a hint to me that a lot of time passed during Creation - probably 15 billion years or so.

Exactly. Popular Christian Bible translation have "Now the earth was [a] formless and empty," [NIV]. The original texts with which you are more familiar, my research shows "was" should be rendered "became" which adds another period of time.

518 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:39:47pm

re: #512 sattv4u2

CHARLES

OT,,, do I get a secret decoder ring or something once I hit 10,000 posts (I'm at 9,420 and counting)

You get the coveted "Holy Crap! The Guy Never Shut's Up!" Award.

519 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:39:57pm

re: #493 jim in virginia

We are deep blue territory here. In 2004 and 2008 we were the only house of 22 on the block with a Bush sign. This year there are four. And fewer O signs than there were Kerry signs four years ago.
Who knows what it means?

* * *
Governor Palin the Pioneer Woman will be in Leesburg, VA Monday, the day after tomorrow!

Virginia was once the Western Frontier...Now the Shenandoah is a latino valley!

520 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:40:23pm

re: #514 mama winger

I don't like all this early voting. Absentee ballots I can see. But early voting? Isn't Election Day defined in the Constitution? Why do we have to vote early?

we don't, but for someone like me it's a convenience. Because of work, i'll most likely be here (at work) from the time the polls open until hours after they close.

521 Basho  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:40:24pm

re: #494 jaunte

Has anyone decided what exactly creationism is? It strikes me that the definition remains excessively vague to keep as many supporters on board as possible.

See my link at 443 :)

522 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:40:27pm

re: #503 JCM

Always nice to know who my friends are!

;-)

I expect to find a rattlesnake in my mailbox Monday.

(-:

523 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:40:56pm

re: #518 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You get the coveted "Holy Crap! The Guy Never Shut's Up!" Award.

FBV - he's been on almost two years longer than you have and you're breathing down his neck in comments made!

524 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:41:08pm
525 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:41:09pm

re: #518 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You get the coveted "Holy Crap! The Guy Never Shut's Up!" Award.

Oh God.....
Does that mean the Joe Biden Bloviate Award goes out at 30k?

526 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:41:09pm

re: #408 mama winger

That's our troops folks.

They are going to weaken us militarily, economically and socially.

I noted in my blog that that would almost certainly mean the end of troops in Europe, Eastern Europe, Korea, Japan, peacekeeping missions, and keeping the sea lanes open.

It would set off an international arms race the likes of which the world has never seen--it'd also bankrupt the countries we've been protecting for lo these many years.

Do the Dems REALLY want to tear everything down and start over? Isn't this madness?

527 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:41:34pm

re: #499 Charles

The cognitive dissonance on display in that post at Panda's Thumb is a perfect example of what happens when your entire enterprise is based on lies. The people who are supposed to be representing you will find it hard to keep all the lies straight. Discovery Institute shills are always doing this -- inadvertently revealing the truth of what they're doing.

For example -- one of the Discovery Institute's main falsehoods is that they're promoting something that has nothing to do with religion. But if you go through their web site, there are so many articles condemning "atheists" that it renders this claim utterly ludicrous. They recently published an attack on me, and included an email from some random idiot who claimed I was a "hidden atheist" trying to corrupt people's minds and tempt them away from religion.

Right. Not connected to religion. Snort.

528 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:41:44pm

re: #518 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You get the coveted "Holy Crap! The Guy Never Shut's Up!" Award.

I'd like to thank all the little people that made trhis award possible. I'd like to thank The Acadamy, my agent, ,,,,,,,,,,,,

529 Jim in Virginia  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:41:55pm

Hitchens' wax job


I had no idea it would be so excruciating. The combined effect was like being tortured for information that you do not possess, with intervals for a (incidentally very costly) sandpaper handjob. The thing is that, in order to rip, you have to grip. A point of leverage is required; a place that can be firmly gripped and pulled while the skin is tautened
530 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:05pm

re: #514 mama winger

I don't like all this early voting. Absentee ballots I can see. But early voting? Isn't Election Day defined in the Constitution? Why do we have to vote early?

Gladly it isn't. Voting is left up to each individual state, with each state sending electors to determine the Presidency. Similar reason on when to vote as to why we have the Electoral College; balance of power so large, populous states don't have inordinate control over the small states.

531 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:06pm

re: #523 arethusa

FBV - he's been on almost two years longer than you have and you're breathing down his neck in comments made!

Oops. Did I forget the Sarc/?

532 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:19pm

re: #526 Palandine

Do the Dems REALLY want to tear everything down and start over?

Isn't this madness?

yes

and yes

533 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:29pm

re: #521 Basho

This is an interesting admission from Philip Johnson:
"I also don’t think that there is really a theory of intelligent design at the present time to propose as a comparable alternative to the Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a fully worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory that’s comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite convinced that it’s doable, but that’s for them to prove…No product is ready for competition in the educational world."

Yet they continue to push into schools, with no 'product.'

534 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:31pm

re: #523 arethusa

FBV - he's been on almost two years longer than you have and you're breathing down his neck in comments made!

eeeewww ,, what a terrible visual

535 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:31pm

Looks like it could be geode.

The web site reminds me of a conspiracy site. This includes the language they use and the sloppy graphics: martian brain found in North Dakota!

The "science" they use seems to be a form rhetorical logic (or illogic).

536 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:53pm

re: #475 jim in virginia

{mama winger}
{gotc}
Off to bed soon. Tomorrow I will be in the presence of far better men (and women) than me.
MCM 2008.
Yep, I'm crazy. Pray for me?

{jim in virginia}

ALWAYS!

537 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:42:57pm

re: #529 Jim in Virginia

Hitchens' wax job

Waaaay too much information, thank you.

538 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:43:18pm

re: #518 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You get the coveted "Holy Crap! The Guy Never Shut's Up!" Award.

And i thought I talked too much!

539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:43:42pm

re: #534 sattv4u2

eeeewww ,, what a terrible visual

Here. I'll make it more visceral. I breath through my nose.

540 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:43:43pm

re: #517 JCM

Exactly. Popular Christian Bible translation have "Now the earth was [a] formless and empty," [NIV].

I like the Septuagint rendition: "unsightly and unfurnished".

541 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:44:01pm

re: #533 jaunte

This is an interesting admission from Philip Johnson:
"I also don’t think that there is really a theory of intelligent design at the present time to propose as a comparable alternative to the Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a fully worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory that’s comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite convinced that it’s doable, but that’s for them to prove…No product is ready for competition in the educational world."

Yet they continue to push into schools, with no 'product.'

Right. This is why I call them the Dishonesty Institute.

542 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:44:29pm

re: #539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Here. I'll make it more visceral. I breath through my nose.

as opposed to you breathing through someone elses nose ?!?!?!?!

543 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:44:35pm

re: #513 FurryOldGuyJeans

Cindy McKinney is the Greenie this time around. At least she is here in WA State on my absentee ballot.

Greenies must not have gotten the 1 or 2% required to be on the ballot. She's not on it.

544 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:44:35pm

re: #530 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

545 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:44:36pm

re: #517 JCM

Exactly. Popular Christian Bible translation have "Now the earth was [a] formless and empty," [NIV]. The original texts with which you are more familiar, my research shows "was" should be rendered "became" which adds another period of time.

Hmmm. No, the word haita usually means "was," not "became." Though it arguably could mean either.

546 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:44:39pm

re: #534 sattv4u2

re: #523 arethusa

FBV - he's been on almost two years longer than you have and you're breathing down his neck in comments made!

eeeewww ,, what a terrible visual

Especially if the neck needs waxing!/

547 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:45:00pm

re: #535 Gus 802

Looks like it could be geode.

The web site reminds me of a conspiracy site. This includes the language they use and the sloppy graphics: martian brain found in North Dakota!

The "science" they use seems to be a form rhetorical logic (or illogic).



Some just have to be true!

548 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:45:03pm

re: #527 Charles

For example -- one of the Discovery Institute's main falsehoods is that they're promoting something that has nothing to do with religion. But if you go through their web site, there are so many articles condemning "atheists" that it renders this claim utterly ludicrous. They recently published an attack on me, and included an email from some random idiot who claimed I was a "hidden atheist" trying to corrupt people's minds and tempt them away from religion.

Right. Not connected to religion. Snort.

Hidden you aren't, Charles, and for that I thank you. Atheist, or not, matters not for this lizard.

Keep on corrupting and tempting me, please. ;)

549 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:45:15pm

re: #504 Lynn B.

The Hebrew Bible certainly is not a science book, but I'm surprised to see you say that it's not a history book. I believe a lot of it certainly is a history book, though not in the literal sense that one would hope such books are written today. Parts of that history are being verified by archeological discoveries in Israel almost every day.

* * *
The Bible--composed of 66 Books written by many authors telling oral histories--has to contain some history! The reporting was not bad for its day either, compared to today's "narrative" reporting.

550 bosforus  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:45:19pm

The more these people want to prove themselves to the real scientific community the more they'll adapt real scientific principles. At some point they'll have to concede that they're full it.

551 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:45:22pm

re: #546 arethusa

Especially if the neck needs waxing!/

no, but that reminds me. My car does!

552 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:45:33pm

But they do think they have a product now -- it's why they're pushing so hard in Texas. The product is this deceptive "textbook:"

[Link: www.exploreevolution.com...]

553 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:46:10pm

re: #545 Lynn B.

Hmmm. No, the word haita usually means "was," not "became." Though it arguably could mean either.

Is that referring to the "prophetic perfect"?

554 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:46:50pm

re: #545 Lynn B.

Hmmm. No, the word haita usually means "was," not "became." Though it arguably could mean either.

It is more vague than yowm, that is for certain.

555 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:47:30pm

re: #511 Palandine

Sample St. Louis ballot arrived today.

Interesting--one can no longer vote a straight party ticket (I never did it, anyway, but they've changed that in the past 4 years).

Five parties for President: Republican, Dem, Libertarian, Constitution, and Independent (Nader--thought he was a Green party candidate).

McCain's name is first on the list, which is pretty cool.

No middle names listed...

* * *
Sidney is the middle name you want to vote for.

556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:47:32pm

re: #542 sattv4u2

as opposed to you breathing through someone elses nose ?!?!?!?!

You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

557 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:47:57pm

re: #544 mama winger

That is the ELECTORS, not the citizens that vote for the electors. BIG difference. :)

558 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:48:16pm

re: #467 MandyManners

Why not wax?

Just let it grow.

559 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:48:28pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

unless he/she's a real REAL close friend

560 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:48:32pm

re: #547 JCM

Coming up next! The Illuminati!

Anyone see Alex Jones' brain recently?

561 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:48:50pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

Oh yeah? Watch me.

562 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:48:59pm

re: #558 Outrider

Just let it grow.

nahh ,,, shave it and make a sweater outta it

563 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:49:02pm

re: #560 Gus 802

Coming up next! The Illuminati!

Anyone see Alex Jones' brain recently?

There is one?

564 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:49:23pm

re: #544 mama winger

Here, mama, from Wikipedia:

By federal law since 1792, the U.S. Congress permitted the states to conduct their presidential elections (or otherwise to choose their Electors) any time in a 34-day period[1] before the first Wednesday of December, which was the day set for the meeting of the Electors of the U.S. president and vice-president (the Electoral College), in their respective states.[2] An election date in November was seen as useful because the harvest would have been completed (important in an agrarian society) and the winter storms would not yet have begun in earnest (a plus in the days before paved roads and snowplows).

I believe early voting can't start more than a month before Election Day, I assume because of this law. (I'm not keen on early voting, either.)

565 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:49:39pm

re: #552 Charles

But they do think they have a product now -- it's why they're pushing so hard in Texas. The product is this deceptive "textbook:"

[Link: www.exploreevolution.com...]

And they can't sell it on the open market -- can't match "the competition" (so to put it.) They have to rely upon packing the Boards.

566 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:49:43pm

OT:

Looks like I need to update this photo mini-essay.

567 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:50:03pm

re: #552 Charles

From the errata sheet:
"Though a possible land-dwelling mammal to fully aquatic mammal (cetacean) transitional sequence has recently been uncovered, critics maintain that transitional sequences are rare, at best."

Unidentified critics.

[Link: www.exploreevolution.com...]

568 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:50:07pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

Lean this way.........

569 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:50:21pm

re: #563 FurryOldGuyJeans

There is one?

Yes, but given how small-minded he is, you'd need a microscope to find it.

570 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:50:48pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

Peter Sellers did it, in one of the early Pink Panther movies.

571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:51:18pm

re: #570 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Peter Sellers did it, in one of the early Pink Panther movies.

You see where that got him.

572 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:51:55pm

re: #568 JCM

Lean this way.........

See everyone? What'd I tell you!

573 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:52:01pm

re: #571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You see where that got him.

rich and famous? FEH, who would want that. I'm happy beiing Poor and Obscure

574 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:52:13pm

re: #564 arethusa

Thanks!

575 Throbert McGee  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:52:42pm

re: #246 Shug

if Creationists have God on their side, why do they care what Charles Johnson has to say?

Because their God is all-powerful, yet insecure -- kinda like Barbra Streisand before James Brolin came along.

(© Homer Simpson)

576 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:52:52pm

Wow, it is pouring in Philly. What do they do for a rain-out?

/And will this affect The One's infomercial on 10/29?

577 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:52:56pm

re: #573 sattv4u2

And dead.

578 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:53:33pm

re: #572 pre-Boomer Marine brat

See everyone? What'd I tell you!

A rattlesnake and a half dozen scorpions........

579 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:53:35pm

re: #482 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, maybe this is why!

Why would any sane man do this?

580 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:53:57pm

re: #565 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And they can't sell it on the open market -- can't match "the competition" (so to put it.) They have to rely upon packing the Boards.


* * * *

Imagine how much taxpayer money goes (and has gone through the years)to publish leftist crap school books for children, including the new Green Religion--Humans Should Just Die Off Now to Save the Planet Movement. Thanks, NEA.

581 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:53:57pm

re: #576 arethusa

Wow, it is pouring in Philly. What do they do for a rain-out?

/And will this affect The One's infomercial on 10/29?

NOTHING AFFECTS THE ONE

/in my best booming James Earl Jones voice

582 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:54:04pm

Look! Another petrified brain!

Give it a minute to load.

583 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:54:21pm

re: #579 Outrider

Why would any sane man do this?

key word

584 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:54:52pm

re: #571 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You see where that got him.

I haven't a Clouseau I'll pass.

585 Basho  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:54:55pm

re: #567 jaunte

From the errata sheet:
"Though a possible land-dwelling mammal to fully aquatic mammal (cetacean) transitional sequence has recently been uncovered, critics maintain that transitional sequences are rare, at best."

Unidentified critics.

[Link: www.exploreevolution.com...]

Inverse square law of paleontology; find a transitional fossil and two more gaps in the fossil record are created. The more transitional sequences they find, the rarer they get!

586 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:55:02pm

re: #544 mama winger

The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

I think the Day they're talking about is the day the Electoral College gives its votes, which must be on one day, whereas the choosing of the Electors (i.e., the popular vote) isn't limited that way. But I agree about the early voting.

George Will had a good column about this a few weeks ago. Maybe you saw it. Farewell, Election Day.

587 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:55:18pm

re: #584 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I haven't a Clouseau I'll pass.

VERY good!

588 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:55:22pm

re: #575 Throbert McGee

God isn't insecure. Sometimes people who believe in God are insecure or on the defensive about their faith, or unsure about how to communicate it well, but the two things are very different.

589 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:55:33pm
590 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:55:49pm

re: #578 JCM

A rattlesnake and a half dozen scorpions........

I feel rigor mortis setting in already.

591 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:55:57pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Look! Another petrified brain!

Give it a minute to load.

I found another one!

592 Tamron  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:06pm

re: #468 Charles

By the way, teaching creationism in schools is a plank of the Alaskan GOP Party Platform:


Ooops! Busted!

Charles, I'm an admitted member of said party. As an individual who couldn't care less about the creationism issue one way or the other, does that mean you will, or will not, ban me from LGF? Are you making a specific point with this post, or is it just general FYI info?
.

593 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:10pm

re: #584 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Nice.

594 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:20pm

re: #586 Lynn B.

Thanks - I did see that. It's a good read.

595 itellu3times  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:22pm

re: #2 MandyManners

They found my ex-husband?

He dropped it and kept running.

596 Piglet-U93  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:28pm

OT

Just an observation on time past to present.

The Earth is 4.6 billion years old (approximately).
The Theory of Evolution is 100 years old (approximately).
ToE's current duration is equivalent to the last 1.5 seconds of a single calendar year (approximately).

On the same scale:
a) The earth was thought to be flat for about 6 minutes.
b) Islam has been trying to conquer the world for Allah for 21 seconds.
c) Fill in your own.

597 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:29pm

re: #584 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I haven't a Clouseau I'll pass.

* * *
Very Nice. Anyone else ever see Peter Sellers in The Blue Matador? With his cute wife Brit Eklund? That was a hoot filmed in Spain.

598 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:56:45pm

re: #552 Charles

But they do think they have a product now -- it's why they're pushing so hard in Texas. The product is this deceptive "textbook:"

[Link: www.exploreevolution.com...]

NAS has a brochure and book out to combat, I posted the brochure link in spinoffs above

599 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:57:11pm

re: #504 Lynn B.

re: #474 Adina in Judea

...

G-d made the world and science figures out the complexity of G-d's world. So science should left alone to do this. The Jewish Bible isn't a science or history book, so the general story about how the universe was created isn't threatened by scientific discoveries.

The Hebrew Bible certainly is not a science book, but I'm surprised to see you say that it's not a history book. I believe a lot of it certainly is a history book, though not in the literal sense that one would hope such books are written today. Parts of that history are being verified by archeological discoveries in Israel almost every day.

The Artschroll Stone Edition of Chumash (Torah) starts the commentary on the first parsha (weekly section) of Genesis with these words:

"We begin the study of the Torah with the realization that the Torah is not a history book, but the charter of Man's mission in the universe. Thus, in his very first comment, Rashi cites Rav Yitzchak who says that since the Torah is primarily a book of laws, it should have begun with the commandment of the new moon (Exodus 12:2), the first law that was addressed to all of Jewry as a nation. He explains that the reason for the Torah's narrative of Creation is to establish that God is the Sovereign of the universe: He declared to the His people the power of Hes works in order to give them the heritage of the nations (Psalms 111:6). If the nations accuse Israel of banditry for seizing the lands of the seven nations of Canaan, Israel can respond, 'The entire universe belongs to God. He created it and He granted it to whomever He deemed fit. It was His desire to give it to them and then it was His desire to take it from th em and give it to us.'

As Rambam notes, even after reading how the world and its central character, Man, came into being, we still do not understand the secret or even the process of Creation. Rather, the work of Creation is a deep mystery that can be comprehended only through the tradition transmitted by God to Moses, and those who are privileged to be entrusted with this hidden knowledge are not permitted to reveal it..."

The history of the Jewish people is described in the Torah, but the sages say that the Torah itself is not a history book, according to Artscroll.

They are very well respected in their translation of the Bible from Hebrew and their commentary from the sages.

600 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:57:14pm

re: #580 alegrias

* * * *

Imagine how much taxpayer money goes (and has gone through the years)to publish leftist crap school books for children, including the new Green Religion--Humans Should Just Die Off Now to Save the Planet Movement. Thanks, NEA.

Please, not while I'm eating supYECHBARRRRRFFFF!

601 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:57:30pm

re: #591 JCM

Line him up next to Alex Jones! I'm sure they have a lot in common.

602 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:57:42pm

re: #585 Basho

If students are taught that critics question the fossil record before they learn how rare it is for a fossil to form, there is the possibility of being drawn into false conclusions.

603 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:58:00pm

re: #592 Tamron

Ooops! Busted!

Charles, I'm an admitted member of said party. As an individual who couldn't care less about the creationism issue one way or the other, does that mean you will, or will not, ban me from LGF? Are you making a specific point with this post, or is it just general FYI info?
.

You are a member- are you active in the party? It is possible to amend the party platforms, but it comes from within the active party membership.

604 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:58:17pm

re: #587 sattv4u2

VERY good!

Thank you, sir.
*rising, bowing gratefully*

605 loflyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:58:44pm

Evening mates, a long day, and I'll dispense with the pirate talk, who's fighten' whom? Or are we just one big happy family?

606 itellu3times  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:58:50pm

re: #596 Piglet-U93

OT

Just an observation on time past to present.

The Earth is 4.6 billion years old (approximately).
The Theory of Evolution is 100 years old (approximately).
ToE's current duration is equivalent to the last 1.5 seconds of a single calendar year (approximately).

On the same scale:
a) The earth was thought to be flat for about 6 minutes.
b) Islam has been trying to conquer the world for Allah for 21 seconds.
c) Fill in your own.

McCain is one second old, and Obama still has zero experience.

607 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:58:56pm

re: #600 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Please, not while I'm eating supYECHBARRRRRFFFF!


* * *

Are you carbohydrate loading for tomorrow's Marine Corps Marathon? The weather's supposed to be lovely here in beautiful Metro Washington DC.

608 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:59:12pm

re: #575 Throbert McGee

Because their God is all-powerful, yet insecure -- kinda like Barbra Streisand before James Brolin came along.

(© Homer Simpson)

Heh. But seriously -- and somewhat disconcertingly -- they do care what I have to say. They've attacked me twice now at their deceptive web site. They really didn't like having their ties to Islamist creationists exposed.

All good Republicans are supposed to say "How high?" when the religious fanatics say "Jump!" I'm a bad Republican.

609 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 5:59:21pm

re: #593 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thank you, thank you.

/still got a long way to go to match The Master

610 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:00:07pm

re: #605 loflyer

Evening mates, a long day, and I'll dispense with the pirate talk, who's fighten' whom? Or are we just one big happy family?

* * *
Sometimes, the family is like Cain & Abel, fighting over their birthright! But that's family.

611 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:00:29pm

re: #605 loflyer

Evening mates, a long day, and I'll dispense with the pirate talk, who's fighten' whom? Or are we just one big happy family?

Did you do your part for the election today Lo?

612 Kenneth  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:00:30pm

Great news for Canuck Commies!

Acorn has openened an office in Toronto, on Danforth Ave, just down the street fro Jack Layton's office, on either side of the Madina Masjid at Donlands and Danforth.

How cozy.

I for one am looking forward to serving my new overlords.

613 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:00:32pm

re: #608 Charles

All good Republicans are supposed to say "How high?" when the religious fanatics say "Jump!" I'm a bad Republican.

I thought you were a former-Democrat-gone-GDI.

614 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:00:32pm

re: #610 alegrias

* * *
Sometimes, the family is like Cain & Abel, fighting over their birthright! But that's family.

Till someone winds up dead :)

615 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:00:42pm

re: #608 Charles

Heh. But seriously -- and somewhat disconcertingly -- they do care what I have to say. They've attacked me twice now at their deceptive web site. They really didn't like having their ties to Islamist creationists exposed.

All good Republicans are supposed to say "How high?" when the religious fanatics say "Jump!" I'm a bad Republican.

Honest folks don't mind inquiry or debate. Dishonest do.

616 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:01:26pm

re: #607 alegrias

* * *

Are you carbohydrate loading for tomorrow's Marine Corps Marathon? The weather's supposed to be lovely here in beautiful Metro Washington DC.

You're kidding. I have an exercycle in the living room. It makes a great coat rack.

617 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:01:26pm

re: #606 itellu3times

McCain is one second old, and Obama still has zero experience.

* * *
McCain's mother is still hotrodding at 96...time does seem to stand still for some people.

618 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:01:28pm

re: #605 loflyer

Evening mates, a long day, and I'll dispense with the pirate talk, who's fighten' whom? Or are we just one big happy family?

Well, the thread is about creationism, but there's been a lot of talk about back-waxing.

619 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:01:34pm
620 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:01:48pm

re: #610 alegrias

* * *
Sometimes, the family is like Cain & Abel, fighting over their birthright! But that's family.

Are you referring to Jacob and Esau?

621 spacejesus  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:01:56pm

I wonder if I'm the only one who quickly scrolls down the page looking for red numbers in threads like this so I can brighten my day with a good laugh

622 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:02:13pm

re: #605 loflyer

Evening mates, a long day, and I'll dispense with the pirate talk, who's fighten' whom? Or are we just one big happy family?

Oh damn, and I was just opening the gunports.

623 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:02:56pm

re: #582 Gus 802

Look! Another petrified brain!

Give it a minute to load.

That looks like botryoidal hematite. What it does not look like is a brain of any kind.

Somebody should give these a guys a hacksaw and a mirror, and suggest that they do some research.

624 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:02:58pm

re: #613 victor_yugo

I thought you were a former-Democrat-gone-GDI.

It's more accurate to say I'm a former apolitical person who has reluctantly become a Republican, because the Democrats stink.

625 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:03:34pm

re: #623 Alberta Oil Peon

That looks like botryoidal hematite. What it does not look like is a brain of any kind.

Somebody should give these a guys a hacksaw and a mirror, and suggest that they do some research.

That's why it's on archive.org, and nowhere else. (I think.)

626 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:03:46pm

OK, Lizards- I have to go attend a meeting concerning our strategery on the ACORN fraud with some fellow "bad republicans". Have a great night!

Keep up the good work, Charles- because you are not alone in being bad.

627 yochanan  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:04:06pm

slow news day?

628 Basho  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:04:09pm

re: #602 jaunte

These critics, of course, will never be satisfied. They want an infinite amount of fossils. It's a good thing genetics provides a nice backup.

629 Kenneth  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:04:25pm

re: #626 Sharmuta

Enjoy your racist cabal...

630 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:04:29pm

re: #608 Charles

Heh. But seriously -- and somewhat disconcertingly -- they do care what I have to say. They've attacked me twice now at their deceptive web site. They really didn't like having their ties to Islamist creationists exposed.

All good Republicans are supposed to say "How high?" when the religious fanatics say "Jump!" I'm a bad Republican.

* * *
Charles, Ronald Reagan was not considered a "religious fanatic" nor did he particularly jump if any such people asked him to--he was Californian like you. So say it ain't so because you can be a defense hawk without sharing others' religious private views.

631 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:04:32pm

re: #624 Charles

It's more accurate to say I'm a former apolitical person who has reluctantly become a Republican, because the Democrats stink worse.

Is that more correct?

632 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:05:08pm

re: #624 Charles

It's more accurate to say I'm a former apolitical person who has reluctantly become a Republican, because the Democrats stink.

I say this with all honesty. When I was a youngre man (21-35ish) I was a democrat. Since then I've been a Republican

Funny thing, I have not changed my stances on issues ONE iota

633 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:05:18pm

re: #592 Tamron

Ooops! Busted!

Charles, I'm an admitted member of said party. As an individual who couldn't care less about the creationism issue one way or the other, does that mean you will, or will not, ban me from LGF? Are you making a specific point with this post, or is it just general FYI info?
.

If I didn't ban 'capefear' after she relentlessly smeared me and distorted my opinions, why would I ban you?

That plank of the Alaskan platform is really bad, though. Maybe I should ban you just on general principles.

634 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:00pm

re: #620 victor_yugo

Are you referring to Jacob and Esau?

* * *
OOOOppps, you're right... Guess I unconsciously didn't want to bring up the racist "black mark" in the Cain/Able story.... Lo siento mucho.

635 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:01pm

re: #623 Alberta Oil Peon

botryoidal hematite.

Watch your language, this is family blog!

/ ;-)

636 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:03pm

re: #632 sattv4u2

I say this with all honesty. When I was a youngre man (21-35ish) I was a democrat. Since then I've been a Republican

Funny thing, I have not changed my stances on issues ONE iota

Same here, except for the "man" bit. 9/11 helped, too.

637 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:08pm

re: #624 Charles

It's more accurate to say I'm a former apolitical person who has reluctantly become a Republican, because the Democrats stink.

This life-long Republican has had to hold his nose around a good many Republican office-holders. Lack of character is a human condition.

638 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:32pm

re: #633 Charles

If I didn't ban 'capefear' after she relentlessly smeared me and distorted my opinions, why would I ban you?

That plank of the Alaskan platform is really bad, though. Maybe I should ban you just on general principles.

But he does have a cool avatar!

639 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:45pm

re: #623 Alberta Oil Peon

Found out it's from an Ed Conrad. He has a website:

Scientists fear evidence man as old as coal!

/This must be an industry of sorts.

640 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:06:58pm

Life long conservative. Mostly that means I have had to vote Republican.

641 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:07:05pm

re: #627 yochanan

Hey yochanan, I read your post a couple threads ago about your nephew being shot at. Was he shot at by Benjamin Smith?

642 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:07:41pm

re: #636 arethusa

Same here, except for the "man" bit. 9/11 helped, too.

by the time 9/11 hit, I was already a republican for 20+ years prior to that

643 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:07:59pm

Some of those Republicans really piss me off tho.

644 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:08:12pm

re: #583 sattv4u2

key word

eh. metrosexuals. afraid to be men

645 SpaceJesus  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:08:12pm

re: #630 alegrias

* * *
Charles, Ronald Reagan was not considered a "religious fanatic" nor did he particularly jump if any such people asked him to--he was Californian like you. So say it ain't so because you can be a defense hawk without sharing others' religious private views.


what

646 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:08:21pm

re: #640 mama winger

Life long conservative. Mostly that means I have had to vote Republican.

Same here. I'd gladly vote for a Democrat who shared my priorities, but I haven't found one yet except on the local level.

647 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:08:39pm

re: #624 Charles

"reluctant Republican"... good alliteration there Charles.

648 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:08:48pm

re: #633 Charles

FYI, did you see capefear coming back in and apologizing to Sharmuta?

649 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:09:12pm

I would call myself a lifelong conservative, talk radio fan since I was a teenager, thats whats influenced my political beliefs.

650 loflyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:09:18pm

re: #611 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you do your part for the election today Lo?

Yes I did, and it was actually something I am glad they are doing, In Georgia there is a online system available for verifying voter registration via the internet, this was a advanced voting site set up for the citizens and was to go live on Monday, but 'me inexperianced work-mate did not understand that you need some lead time to fix unexpected problems and scheduled installation and testing for Thursday and Friday, All sites tested good except one and the network part was really screwed up, took me 15 hours and a bunch of help to get it fixed. We started a backup plan of using USB aircards but we managed to fix the circuit. AT&T went above and beyond the call of duty on this one. My hats off to Willy, the field tech who stuck it out with me to the end....Thanks, mates!

651 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:09:22pm

re: #608 Charles

I'm a bad Republican.


Yeah. I got the same problem.

652 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:09:22pm

re: #646 goddessoftheclassroom

Same here. I'd gladly vote for a Democrat who shared my priorities, but I haven't found one yet except on the local level.

I voted for a Democrat once - for County sherriff, because I knew him personally and he was a good guy. The Republican won. Go figure.

653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:09:24pm

I wonder how many Republicans (or conservatives) are such because the first time they voted was to vote for Reagan vs. Carter. I know I am one.

654 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:10:06pm

re: #615 JCM

Honest folks don't mind inquiry or debate. Dishonest do.

Sorta like the Obama campaign blacksocialist-listing a reporter who dared to ask Senator Biden whether Senator Obama's "spread the wealth around" comments were Marxist.

/silly, reporters aren't supposed to actually ASK difficult questions

655 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:10:31pm

re: #653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wonder how many Republicans (or conservatives) are such because the first time they voted was to vote for Reagan vs. Carter. I know I am one.

My first election was 1984. I voted absentee for Reagan because I was studying in England for the year,

656 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:10:46pm

re: #653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not me, I voted for Nixon, and still would.

657 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:10:49pm

re: #612 Kenneth

Great news for Canuck Commies!

Acorn has openened an office in Toronto, on Danforth Ave, just down the street fro Jack Layton's office, on either side of the Madina Masjid at Donlands and Danforth.

How cozy.

I for one am looking forward to serving my new overlords.


* * *
Say infidel, aren't you singing it loud & singing it proud yet? Allahu Akbar! And say it like you mean it.

(My dad told the story of dangerously practicing his golf swing in Pakistan in the yard during the call to prayer, trying not to attract the attention of the Muezzin in the mosque next door--Infidel definitely asking for trouble)

658 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:10:52pm

re: #642 sattv4u2

by the time 9/11 hit, I was already a republican for 20+ years prior to that

I'm a young'un. :-)

659 Charles  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:11:02pm

re: #648 pre-Boomer Marine brat

FYI, did you see capefear coming back in and apologizing to Sharmuta?

I saw it.

660 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:11:07pm

re: #655 goddessoftheclassroom

My first election was 1984.

A mere BABY ! !

:)

661 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:11:22pm

My first vote was for Bush 1 vs Clinton...damn Perot lol

662 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:11:27pm

re: #649 middlecon

I would call myself a lifelong conservative, talk radio fan since I was a teenager, thats whats influenced my political beliefs.

hehehe ,,, "talk radio when I was a teenager" consisted of a Boston Icon by the name of Larry Glick
(think Art Bell but funny and interesting)
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

663 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:11:27pm

Sub setting, low tide. Coos Bay.

664 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:11:28pm

re: #652 mama winger

I voted for a Democrat once - for County sherriff, because I knew him personally and he was a good guy. The Republican won. Go figure.

I proud of one of my votes for a Democrat.

Henry M. Jackson

665 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:12:12pm

re: #624 Charles

It's more accurate to say I'm a former apolitical person who has reluctantly become a Republican, because the Democrats stink.

Amen. I'm a Republican because the Libertarian Party stinks.

/Haven't voted Dem since 1992.

666 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:12:19pm

re: #664 JCM

I proud of one of my votes for a Democrat.

Henry M. Jackson

There used to be some good ones. We called them Hawks. Now we are down to Joe.

667 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:12:27pm

re: #655 goddessoftheclassroom

My first election was 1984. I voted absentee for Reagan because I was studying in England for the year,

GOD , I'm old !

668 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:12:52pm

re: #667 sattv4u2

GOD , I'm old !

I was gonna say ........

669 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:13:03pm

re: #667 sattv4u2

GOD , I'm old !

You want old? My first election was '92.

670 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:13:16pm

Gus Hall/Angela Davis, 1984.

671 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:13:34pm

re: #662 sattv4u2

hehehe ,,, "talk radio when I was a teenager" consisted of a Boston Icon by the name of Larry Glick
(think Art Bell but funny and interesting)
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Only 34 here so I was about 16 first time I heard Rush also Billy Cunningham out of Cincinnatti.

672 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:13:40pm

re: #669 arethusa

You want old? My first election was '92.

GGGGAAAAHHHHHH!

I have things in my freezer older than you !

673 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:13:56pm

re: #670 MandyManners

Gus Hall/Angela Davis, 1984.

What did your penance consist of?

674 Griffon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:13:56pm

Nixon/Agnew 1972

675 quickjustice  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:14:26pm

re: #504 Lynn B.

Genesis is a collection of oral Hebrew traditions about "beginnings". There are several different creation stories in the book. That doesn't mean that they're lies. They are religious stories about G-d and his creation.

The Bible isn't science, was written before the scientific method was developed, and doesn't compete with science. The creationists fabricate competition between G-d and scientists to manipulate people. "Inherit the Wind".

676 JSK1121  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:14:40pm

re: #655 goddessoftheclassroom

My first election was 1984. I voted absentee for Reagan because I was studying in England for the year,

I was BORN in 1984. My first election was 2004; I voted for Kerry because I was in college, it was the cool thing to do, and I hadn't yet begun to think for myself. This time around, however, I refuse to be a mindless drone. Look how all-growns-up I've become in just a few years!

677 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:14:45pm

re: #616 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You're kidding. I have an exercycle in the living room. It makes a great coat rack.

* * *
Charles hasn't inspired you to bike long distance yet? Yeah, as for me, I went to the Army Ten Miler at the Pentagon recently--to wander in the new sobering 9/11 Memorial garden and wait for the runners!

Got to see the President, Rummy Rumsfeld and others at the opening on September 11, 2008--heartbreaking to see pictures of the 189 murdered victims scroll by slowly as their names were read & biographies shared.

Down with Jihadists of the Fundamentalist sort, and again I say, Never forget.

678 jorline  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:14:57pm

re: #619 taxfreekiller

Hannity is on here in Texas,

Obama and his Ayers connection,

lets see if Hannity has any guts this time around?

Hey, tfk.

Ten to one Hannity will use his same talking points. He really should read LGF for pertinent information.

679 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:15:27pm

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Sub setting, low tide. Coos Bay.



Ocean Shores.

680 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:15:31pm

re: #659 Charles

I saw it.

I'm glad. His/her stock went up by a couple of orders of magnitude in my book. That took humility, and guts.

/we still won't agree, but he/she may turn out to be a valuable lizard (IMHO)

681 wright1  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:15:57pm

re: #619 taxfreekiller

Hannity is on here in Texas,

Obama and his Ayers connection,

lets see if Hannity has any guts this time around?

Not sure I understand that comment. Hannity has been the lone wolf on Ayers for nearly forever. I do not think this issue would have seen the light of day without him. I watched him on H & C last night and he looked in the camera several times asking BHO to come after him - daring him too. I think he has guts.

BTW, for those who have lost faith in the election, this is anecdotal of course but it just may be a reason why McCain can win. [Link: hillbuzz.wordpress.com...]

682 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:15:57pm

re: #679 JCM

Nice.

683 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:15:58pm

My first election was in 1980. I voted for cough, cough, cough, cough, and straight Republican on the local tickets.

684 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:15:58pm

re: #670 MandyManners

Gus Hall/Angela Davis, 1984.

You win the prize for longest journey. :)

685 freetoken  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:16:04pm

re: #665 Palandine

Amen. I'm a Republican because the Libertarian Party stinks.

Libertarianism has had some influence in modern political life.

That, however, has nothing to do with the ineffective Libertarian Party. Rather, some well placed libertarian intellectuals (esp in economics) have championed the cause.

Major Political parties in the US have always been, and will always be, grand compromises. Unfortunately the current compromise in the Republican party includes throwing science overboard.

686 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:16:17pm

re: #661 middlecon

My first vote was for Bush 1 vs Clinton...damn Perot lol

Interesting tidbit:

Ross Perot paid Carol Shepp McCain's medical bills after her accident, while John McCain was a POW.

Ross Perot has not forgiven John McCain for divorcing her.

But she has.

(Why can't all ex-wives have such character?)

687 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:16:26pm

re: #678 jorline

Hey, tfk.

Ten to one Hannity will use his same talking points. He really should read LGF for pertinent information.

I've heard Hannity talk about Ayers on his show and I'm not an everyday listener by any means...am I missing something?

688 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:01pm

re: #655 goddessoftheclassroom

My first election was 1984. I voted absentee for Reagan because I was studying in England for the year,

Dammit, I was about ready to shut down for the night!

Where in England?

/green-eyed jealousy ... I've never been there ... WAHHHHH!

689 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:16pm

re: #599 Adina in Judea

The history of the Jewish people is described in the Torah, but the sages say that the Torah itself is not a history book, according to Artscroll.

They are very well respected in their translation of the Bible from Hebrew and their commentary from the sages.

Gotcha. I have that book too, so you don't need to go to all the trouble of copying parts of it here for my benefit.

I understand that the Stone Chumash is well respected in some circles but, personally, I find their translation awkward and sometimes downright strange and since they (and apparently you) are coming at this from a Biblical literalist perspective and I am not, I tend not to take their commentary at face value.

But thanks. You've answered my question.

690 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:22pm

re: #653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wonder how many Republicans (or conservatives) are such because the first time they voted was to vote for Reagan vs. Carter. I know I am one.

Same here FBV. For me it was because of the democrats supposed hatred of the rich and the successful. I never understood that. But now I know the truth- On just about every issue, they're blatant hypocrites.

691 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:33pm

re: #517 JCM

re: #506 Adina in Judea

...As mentioned elsewhere, the Jewish Bible starts out with vast amounts of time passing and then slowing down as the Five Books of Moses goes along.

The first two chapters of the Torah (out of 54 chapters) takes up 2000 years while the last entire book of 11 chapters takes up a little over 30 days.

It seems like a hint to me that a lot of time passed during Creation - probably 15 billion years or so.

Exactly. Popular Christian Bible translation have "Now the earth was [a] formless and empty," [NIV]. The original texts with which you are more familiar, my research shows "was" should be rendered "became" which adds another period of time.

The Jewish translation of the Hebrew into English for the first sentence in Genesis is "In the beginning of God's creating the heavens and the earth" and the Jewish sages interpret this as starting from nothingness and then going to "the basic substance from which He then fashioned the universe as we know it" (according to Artscroll.)

692 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:37pm

re: #655 goddessoftheclassroom

We must be the same age. Here I was thinking you were like 25 or sumthin'!

693 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:42pm

re: #687 middlecon

Hannity's teasing the Frank Davis story, up after the commercial break.

694 jorline  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:44pm

re: #674 Griffon

Nixon/Agnew 1972

same here

695 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:17:55pm

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Sub setting, low tide. Coos Bay.

I clicke late, but think I caught the tip of the periscope submerging.

696 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:18:13pm

Just saw the apology by Capefear. I appreciate Cape for that, it takes a good person to admit they are wrong, especially publicly on a blog this. 'Me hats off to you, mate
/you want see this in the Daily Kos....

697 quickjustice  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:18:16pm

I'm a recovering Republican. Meaning that I'm really tired of the GOP enlarging government, nationalizing the banks, buying constituents with earmarks, and kowtowing to the Democrat Congress about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I'm voting McCain without enthusiasm. I think Palin a talented novice with tremendous potential.

698 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:18:17pm

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Sub setting, low tide. Coos Bay.

Y'mean you can see its periscope?!?!

699 David Simon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:18:52pm

re: #653 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wonder how many Republicans (or conservatives) are such because the first time they voted was to vote for Reagan vs. Carter. I know I am one.

I voted for Carter. In order to become a conservative, all one needs to do is open his mind and learn.

700 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:10pm

re: #691 Adina in Judea

Thanks, no time line for that given.
He fashioned, I like that.

701 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:28pm

re: #679 JCM


Ocean Shores.

Haystack Rock (takes a while to load)

702 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:38pm

re: #632 sattv4u2

I say this with all honesty. When I was a youngre man (21-35ish) I was a democrat. Since then I've been a Republican

Funny thing, I have not changed my stances on issues ONE iota

* * *
Many people say the Democrat Party left them. Certainly John F. Kennedy would not want to hang out with them today.

Even George McGovern has an ad out against the leftist unions' attempt to take away the secret ballot from their voters. George McGovern fought as a fighter pilot to preserve Americans' right to vote their conscience.

The Soviets made you announce your vote in public, now the Democrats want to be like that... That's wrong and Un-American.

703 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:43pm

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Sub setting, low tide. Coos Bay.

Sun, also. ; )

704 wolfie  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:45pm

re: #670 MandyManners

Gus Hall/Angela Davis, 1984.

Holy carp! :D
Funky!

705 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:45pm

Nixon/Kennedy

706 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:19:55pm

re: #699 David Simon

I voted for Carter. In order to become a conservative, all one needs to do is open his mind and learn.

and have the courage of one's convictions even in the face of ridicule.

707 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:20:29pm

re: #695 Thanos

I clicke late, but think I caught the tip of the periscope submerging.

LOL!

708 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:20:31pm
709 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:20:51pm

re: #695 Thanos

I clicke late, but think I caught the tip of the periscope submerging.

This one is dedicated to Ojoe! It looks great!

710 jorline  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:20:53pm

re: #687 middlecon

I've heard Hannity talk about Ayers on his show and I'm not an everyday listener by any means...am I missing something?

Hannity says more than a lot of the others talking heads, but he keeps hammering the same talking points. There's a lot more information out there. I wish he was a little more cutting edge.

711 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:21:01pm

I need my baseball game

I was promised a baseball game and dagnabbit there better be one

712 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:21:05pm

re: #705 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Nixon/Kennedy

Shit! I think not. The next one!

/senior moment

713 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:21:45pm

re: #702 alegrias

* * *
Many people say the Democrat Party left them. Certainly John F. Kennedy would not want to hang out with them today.

Even George McGovern has an ad out against the leftist unions' attempt to take away the secret ballot from their voters. George McGovern fought as a fighter pilot to preserve Americans' right to vote their conscience.

The Soviets made you announce your vote in public, now the Democrats want to be like that... That's wrong and Un-American.

McGovern/ Nixon was my 1st presidential election

714 Hard Right  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:21:48pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Bwahahaha! They have a rock and think it's a brain!

It's not a rock.....it's fossilized dinosaur poo...which is strangely fitting.

715 David Simon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:21:50pm

re: #706 mama winger

and have the courage of one's convictions even in the face of ridicule.

Excellent point, Mama. Believe me, I've had plenty of that - most of it from family.

716 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:21:56pm

re: #711 mama winger

I need my baseball game

I was promised a baseball game and dagnabbit there better be one

YESSSS!

717 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:01pm

re: #708 IslandLibertarian

Rainy afternoon here..........anyone up for a swim?

From the looks of things, the Phillies and the Rays.

718 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:19pm

re: #712 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Shit! I think not. The next one!

/senior moment

Somebody check grandpa's med log!

719 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:37pm

re: #715 David Simon

Excellent point, Mama. Believe me, I've had plenty of that - most of it from family.

It's not easy but I think it adds to one's character in the long run.

720 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:41pm

One wonders what is next for anti-idiotarianism?

721 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:43pm

Seagulls in Bandon, Or.:
[Link: www.bandon.tv...]

722 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:45pm

re: #709 LoFlyer

This one is dedicated to Ojoe! It looks great!

Arrrr, maybe I should say it looked great, just looked at it and the sun is setting fast!

723 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:22:54pm

re: #711 mama winger

I need my baseball game

I was promised a baseball game and dagnabbit there better be one

Yep, but no Cubbies...Hanging my head.

724 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:23:07pm

re: #711 mama winger

I need my baseball game

I was promised a baseball game and dagnabbit there better be one

You want baseball?

725 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:23:40pm

re: #723 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Yep, but no Cubbies...Hanging my head.

Ack ! ! I felt like hanging my head too - at the end of the rope

but I am better now
mostly

726 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:23:42pm

re: #718 JCM

Somebody check grandpa's med log!

*fumble*
*focus eyes*
*wipe drool from cheek*
*head for the bathroom*

727 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:23:56pm

1980 was my first election, and I voted for Carter, I swallowed the 'Reagan is swaggering warmonger who will start WWIII' meme whole. When It finally dawned on me around a year later that I had been lied to, I never gave a Dem a second thought.

728 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:01pm

re: #652 mama winger

I voted for a Democrat once - for County sherriff, because I knew him personally and he was a good guy. The Republican won. Go figure.

I always favored Zell Miller, whom I voted for Governor and for Senator, even though he was a Democrat and had been a Marine. ;-)>

He was actually a better Republican than this ersatz-Republican we have as Governor now.

729 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:01pm

re: #673 mama winger

What did your penance consist of?

Nothing. I immersed myself in Communism and figured out it was a load of crap.

730 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:02pm

re: #650 loflyer

Yes I did, and it was actually something I am glad they are doing, In Georgia there is a online system available for verifying voter registration via the internet, this was a advanced voting site set up for the citizens and was to go live on Monday, but 'me inexperianced work-mate did not understand that you need some lead time to fix unexpected problems and scheduled installation and testing for Thursday and Friday, All sites tested good except one and the network part was really screwed up, took me 15 hours and a bunch of help to get it fixed. We started a backup plan of using USB aircards but we managed to fix the circuit. AT&T went above and beyond the call of duty on this one. My hats off to Willy, the field tech who stuck it out with me to the end....Thanks, mates!

* * *
God bless you techie person ensuring the process works! I worry so many elderly people volunteering at the polls aren't technically inclined...but bless their hearts for volunteering.

Volunteers need brains as well as brawn & endurance to work on elections.

731 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:11pm

re: #725 mama winger

Ack ! ! I felt like hanging my head too - at the end of the rope

but I am better now
mostly


There's always next......

/ ah forget it

732 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:13pm

re: #723 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Yep, but no Cubbies...Hanging my head.

no Red Sox either!

733 Cutty Sark  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:14pm

Where the HELL is Alfred E. Newman when you need him ?

734 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:18pm

re: #724 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You want baseball?

But is there a 7th Inning Stretch?

735 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:41pm

re: #689 Lynn B.

I understand that the Stone Chumash is well respected in some circles but, personally, I find their translation awkward and sometimes downright strange and since they (and apparently you) are coming at this from a Biblical literalist perspective and I am not, I tend not to take their commentary at face value.

Well, I can't imagine how you get this impression when the Artscroll edition of the Chumash points out in the first part of the commentary that we don't understand Creation and we never will.

I put this part of the commentary in my post to you:

"As Rambam notes, even after reading how the world and its central character, Man, came into being, we still do not understand the secret or even the process of Creation. Rather, the work of Creation is a deep mystery that can be comprehended only through the tradition transmitted by God to Moses, and those who are privileged to be entrusted with this hidden knowledge are not permitted to reveal it..."

How do you imagine that Artscroll (or I) could take the Genesis verses "literally" while also believing that we can't possibly comprehend the process of Creation? If we took Genesis literally, then we would have to believe that we understood it.

As it is, without understanding it, there is no contradiction with the science that says the creation of the universe took 15 billion years (which is what I believe and what the head rabbi of the Orthodox Union in America believes in his work with 1000 Orthodox synagogues.)

As for the Artscroll translation, it's the best one I've ever seen. It's not awkward or strange in the slightest in my view, and I can't understand why anyone would think such a thing.

736 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:24:54pm

Hey a rainout just gives me at least one more day of baseball?

Really they should rethink World Series games on Saturdays, no one watches tv on Saturday anymore and college football splits the audience.

737 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:25:17pm

re: #725 mama winger

Ack ! ! I felt like hanging my head too - at the end of the rope

but I am better now
mostly

And what's worse is that where I live I'm surrounded by St Louis Cardinal fans, so it's twice as bad.

738 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:25:26pm

re: #699 David Simon

That's who I voted for the first time. I actually loath Carter now.

When Reagan died I caught the entirety of his funeral almost from start to finish on TV. It was a very sad day.

Carter was an abject failure.

739 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:25:30pm

re: #729 MandyManners

Nothing. I immersed myself in Communism and figured out it was a load of crap.

You always can tell crap when you see it Mandy. It's one of your best qualities.

740 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:25:34pm

re: #688 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Dammit, I was about ready to shut down for the night!

Where in England?

/green-eyed jealousy ... I've never been there ... WAHHHHH!

Royal Holloway College, part of the University of London, I also lived in Oxford for two years (1990-92). I love England, but wages are half as much and the cost of living is twice as high,

741 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:25:55pm

A QIUCK OLDTIMERS THOUGHT ABOUT BASEBALL

Baseball should NOT be played in November!

/rant off

742 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:14pm

re: #737 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

And what's worse is that where I live I'm surrounded by St Louis Cardinal fans, so it's twice as bad.

AGHHHHH

743 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:16pm

re: #674 Griffon

Nixon/Agnew 1972

Same here!

744 JHW  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:25pm

re: #679 JCM

Live Cameras on Washington's Olympic Peninsula

There's a lot more than I suspected.

745 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:35pm

re: #741 sattv4u2

A QIUCK OLDTIMERS THOUGHT ABOUT BASEBALL

Baseball should NOT be played in November!

/rant off

Or even LATE October, fer chrissake!

746 MandyManners  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:39pm

re: #739 mama winger

You always can tell crap when you see it Mandy. It's one of your best qualities.

I'm a top crap inspector.

747 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:46pm

re: #711 mama winger

I need my baseball game

I was promised a baseball game and dagnabbit there better be one

If it's rained out, that might put a kink in the Messiah's tv program next week.

I just flipped over from the Irish game (yay!) to Fox to see the status and saw a commercial for House. Had my impure thought for the day. ;)

748 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:51pm

re: #741 sattv4u2

A QIUCK OLDTIMERS THOUGHT ABOUT BASEBALL

Baseball should NOT be played in November!

/rant off

That happened like once, didn't it?

749 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:26:58pm

re: #732 sattv4u2

no Red Sox either!

You gotta be kiddin' me. You think that's equivalent?

750 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:27:00pm

re: #656 Thanos

Not me, I voted for Nixon, and still would.

* * *
I campaigned for him at 10 years old and at 14 because he said he would end the War in Vietnam with honor, and bring back the troops, and my dad came back alive. My fellow Americans--much better than "My Friends" but what are you going to do? McCain missed both of Nixon's campaigns 1968 and 1972 because he was "hanging with Communists" in Hanoi.

751 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:27:03pm

re: #737 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Are you down in So. IL ?

752 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:27:33pm

re: #746 MandyManners

I'm a top crap inspector.


Mandy the Plumber

753 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:27:45pm

re: #748 arethusa

That happened like once, didn't it?

point being, it should be TOTALLY done by 1st week of October ,, tops!

754 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:28:08pm

re: #738 Gus 802

I took the day off. Spent the entire day watching the coverage. C'mon Dutch, where are ya when we need ya!

755 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:28:10pm

Did I see the field uncovered?

756 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:28:11pm

re: #749 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

You gotta be kiddin' me. You think that's equivalent?

hey , we're used to being there and winning it now!

757 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:28:40pm

re: #738 Gus 802

That's who I voted for the first time. I actually loath Carter now.

When Reagan died I caught the entirety of his funeral almost from start to finish on TV. It was a very sad day.

Carter was IS an abject failure.

FIXED! No sarc tag necessary!

758 Lynn B.  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:28:49pm

re: #675 quickjustice

Genesis is a collection of oral Hebrew traditions about "beginnings". There are several different creation stories in the book. That doesn't mean that they're lies. They are religious stories about G-d and his creation.

The Bible isn't science, was written before the scientific method was developed, and doesn't compete with science. The creationists fabricate competition between G-d and scientists to manipulate people. "Inherit the Wind".

Excuse me? You must have me confused with someone else. Never ever have I even remotely suggested that anything in the Hebrew Bible is a "lie." I said it's not a science book. And I suggested that parts of the history might be interpretations of events that we wouldn't understand the same way today but that much of it is, in fact, history.

You may believe that Genesis is "a collection of oral Hebrew traditions" and "religious stories." Others believe it's either a literal or a figurative account related by God in person to Moses at Mt. Sinai. Still others believe it to be a divinely inspired but singular and cohesive narrative if properly understood. I wouldn't presume to try to tell other people here how they should understand it.

759 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:00pm

HALFTIME

PENN STATE 3 OHIO 0
NOTRE DAME 17 WASHINGTON 0

760 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:02pm

Halftime scores

Alabama 13 Tenn 3
Ohio State 3 Penn State 3

761 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:03pm

re: #740 goddessoftheclassroom

Royal Holloway College, part of the University of London, I also lived in Oxford for two years (1990-92). I love England, but wages are half as much and the cost of living is twice as high,

I'd love to go there. A former employer sent me to Nice for three weeks. Except for finding an absolute gem of a regular cab driver, it was the pits. Didn't leave the hotel evenings.

If it'd been anywhere in England, Wales or Scotland, I'd have had a legal pad filled with sightseeing itinerary.

762 rawmuse  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:03pm

re: #608 Charles

I am a Republican in the P.J. O'Rourke model.
"I am a Republican because they are no damn good."
- the Peej

763 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:05pm

re: #746 MandyManners

I'm a top crap inspector.

You know the difference between run-of-the-mill crap and the high-quality expensive crap.

764 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:35pm

re: #759 sattv4u2

HALFTIME

PENN STATE 3 OHIO 0 3
NOTRE DAME 17 WASHINGTON 0

765 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:49pm

re: #757 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Thanks!

/Past tense would be nicer.

766 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:29:59pm

First pitch at 10 ET!

767 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:30:00pm

re: #753 sattv4u2

point being, it should be TOTALLY done by 1st week of October ,, tops!

Didn't they hear the song from "Damn Yankees"?

April, May, June, July, August, September... six months out of every year!

768 Shug  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:30:07pm

I wouldn't want to be a member of any political party who would have me as a member

-Shug Marx

769 Buster Bunny  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:30:25pm

Five mins for high contemplative creationist thinking.

Nah, lets just Barack Roll instead

I LOVE THIS STUPID CLIP !

/Badass Barack Beaten Bloody By Beligerant Buster Bunny!

770 JacksonTn  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:30:25pm

Good Evening Lizards ....did Senator Government quit yet? ......(wishing) .. Busy day on the farm ......dug many holes to put jars in just in case Senator Government steals the election .......we ain't paying no more stinkin taxes ....I see much cash transactions and bartering in the future if he gets in ... But I am not giving up EVER ......

771 arethusa  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:30:26pm

re: #766 arethusa

Man, I'm gonna be up late.

772 mama winger  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:30:26pm

re: #766 arethusa

First pitch at 10 ET!

Really? Oh - then I have time to take the dogs out

thanks .....

773 neocon hippie  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:31:01pm

re: #721 jaunte

I spent a chunk of time in the Coos Bay area in 1983-84, participating in a newage (rhymes with sewage) cult that no longer exists.

Bandon is one cool little town.

774 itellu3times  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:31:01pm

re: #720 experiencedtraveller

One wonders what is next for anti-idiotarianism?

Something will evolve.

775 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:31:24pm

re: #733 Cutty Sark

Where the HELL is Alfred E. Newman when you need him ?

I can't find a picture of the window but here's the tale:

When the
South Campus Center was built
here about twenty years ago, it was embellished with a red, white, and
blue stained glass portrait of George Washington. For almost fifteen
years the Latin motto that accompanied it went unnoticed, until it was
reported (in the Seattle *Weekly*) in 1988. The revelation created a
stir at the time, even making it to the pages of *Time* magazine. The
motto, still *in situ*, still clearly visible (although some attempt
has been made recently to efface it), was eventually traced to a local
Latin teacher who concocted it as a practical joke when asked by the
designer of the stained glass for a few appropriate words. What he
came up with was NUM ME VEXO? This is the motto of Alfred E. Neuman,
the amiable little nerd of *Mad* magazine: WHAT, ME WORRY?

Paul Pascal, University of Washington

776 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:31:44pm

re: #772 mama winger

Really? Oh - then I have time to take the dogs out

thanks .....

Bring them to a nice expensive restaurant. Perhaps a Broadway show also!

777 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:31:46pm

re: #774 itellu3times

Something will evolve.

Unless someone creates it instead.

778 itellu3times  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:32:45pm

re: #777 victor_yugo

Unless someone creates it instead.

Many are created, some survive and prosper.

779 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:32:45pm

re: #741 sattv4u2

A QIUCK OLDTIMERS THOUGHT ABOUT BASEBALL

Baseball should NOT be played in November!

/rant off

I was cranky about lights in Wrigley field, wild card teams, DH, inter-league play.

780 victor_yugo  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:32:53pm

I just realized, I'm woefully unprepared for the SNDT.

Back in a few.

781 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:32:56pm

re: #776 sattv4u2

re: #772 mama winger

Really? Oh - then I have time to take the dogs out

thanks .....

Bring them to a nice expensive restaurant. Perhaps a Broadway show also!


CATS, perhaps

782 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:33:07pm

re: #730 alegrias

* * *
God bless you techie person ensuring the process works! I worry so many elderly people volunteering at the polls aren't technically inclined...but bless their hearts for volunteering.

Volunteers need brains as well as brawn & endurance to work on elections.

Its a lot of fun working elections. At the polls their appears to be a true bond between everyone even though we may oppose each others choice of candidates. Its a very communal emotion. Counting the votes is fun also, the problem with the working the count on national elections is that you know everything that;s going own with the count at the local level. But you are clueless as to what is happening nationally. I can't tell you how much fun it was 2004 to get home at 2 AM and here and see the talking heads all bemoaning the win by Bush!

783 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:33:12pm

re: #751 mama winger

Are you down in So. IL ?

I live just outside of Springfield, Missouri (home town of Mr. Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt) in Southwest Missouri, four hours west of St. Louis just off I-44.

784 legalpad  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:33:13pm

re: #738 Gus 802

Carter was an abject failure.

I think he knows it, too. He seems to be trying to prove something with his constant meddling and putting himself out there as someone of consequence.

785 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:33:26pm

re: #780 victor_yugo

I just realized, I'm woefully unprepared for the SNDT.

Back in a few.

hell ,, I'm STILL fuming about expansion teams

786 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:33:49pm

re: #697 quickjustice

I'm a recovering Republican. Meaning that I'm really tired of the GOP enlarging government, nationalizing the banks, buying constituents with earmarks, and kowtowing to the Democrat Congress about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I'm voting McCain without enthusiasm. I think Palin a talented novice with tremendous potential.


* * *

Thanks for your character and putting country first--the rest we can work on. Neither McCain nor Palin were the earmarkers you hate, and Congress in Democrat hands the last two years hasn't exactly put the brakes on ENTITLEMENT spending. Defense spending is a must right now I'm afraid. Liberty ain't cheep. But Obama will fix that too if we lose.

787 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:34:26pm

re: #773 neocon hippie

It looks like a nice area. I wouldn't mind able to drive over to Crater Lake fro a visit.

788 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:34:34pm

re: #780 victor_yugo

re: #785 sattv4u2

hell ,, I'm STILL fuming about expansion teams

in ALL sports

789 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:34:46pm

An important distinction should be made I think. One can have Republican sympathies, vote exclusively Republican and still not BE a Republican. You have to join the party to actually be one. I did for 4 years, then left when Hastert abandoned all principles and became just another beltway operative. And don't get me started on Jack Abramhoff.

790 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:35:03pm

re: #675 quickjustice

Genesis is a collection of oral Hebrew traditions about "beginnings". There are several different creation stories in the book. That doesn't mean that they're lies. They are religious stories about G-d and his creation.

There are two Torahs - the written one (the Five Books of Moses) and the oral one (which is included in the Talmud.)

They were both given at Mt Sinai and they're not just collections of stories from the Hebrews, although they certainly include descriptions of things that happened prior to the nation of Israel receiving the Torah and the oral tradition at Mt Sinai.

The way Creation is explained in Genesis is seen by some Jewish sages as being chronological and by other Jewish sages as being non-chronological, but it's one story. I think of it as an overview with details added.

791 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #759 sattv4u2

HALFTIME

PENN STATE 3 OHIO 0
NOTRE DAME 17 WASHINGTON 0

re: #760 middlecon

Halftime scores

Alabama 13 Tenn 3
Ohio State 3 Penn State 3

Wow, you two must channeling each other...

792 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:35:51pm

re: #770 JacksonTn

Good Evening Lizards ....did Senator Government quit yet? ......(wishing) .. Busy day on the farm ......dug many holes to put jars in just in case Senator Government steals the election .......we ain't paying no more stinkin taxes ....I see much cash transactions and bartering in the future if he gets in ... But I am not giving up EVER ......

To paraphrase Ayn Rand, Atlas will shrug if the Messiah wins. Productive people can only take so much punishment from their government before they'll just...stop. My prediction: if the Messiah wins, which he won't, the stock market will lose at least 2000 points between election day and when he takes office.

793 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:35:54pm

re: #741 sattv4u2

A QIUCK OLDTIMERS THOUGHT ABOUT BASEBALL

Baseball should NOT be played in November!

/rant off

Arr, I agree 100 percent mate! And the pro-basketball play-offs are way to late also! Love the college playoffs though!

794 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:37:04pm

re: #782 LoFlyer

Your alter ego screen persona passed my mind today.

My Granddaughter is nine months old and doesn't talk yet. But, I have taught her to snarl/growl in the best manner of the pirates arrgghh matey tradition. Sounds funnier than hell when she does it. ;-)>

795 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:37:07pm

re: #789 MrPaulRevere

An important distinction should be made I think. One can have Republican sympathies, vote exclusively Republican and still not BE a Republican. You have to join the party to actually be one. I did for 4 years, then left when Hastert abandoned all principles and became just another beltway operative. And don't get me started on Jack Abramhoff.

This is why there is such a difference between self identified Democrats and self identified Republicans in polls, its just harder to find people who will identify themselves as Republicans, even though they vote that way almost exclusively.

796 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:37:19pm
797 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:37:48pm

re: #793 LoFlyer

Arr, I agree 100 percent mate! And the pro-basketball play-offs are way to late also! Love the college playoffs though!

END DATE FOR MAJOR SPORTS

BASEBALL, no later than the 1st week of October
BASKETBALL, no later than Mid May
FOOTBALL, no later than 2nd week of January
HOCKEY, no later than end of March

798 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:37:58pm

I'm signing off for the night.
jcm *highfive*
{goddess}

799 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:38:22pm

re: #738 Gus 802

That's who I voted for the first time. I actually loath Carter now.

When Reagan died I caught the entirety of his funeral almost from start to finish on TV. It was a very sad day.

Carter was an abject failure.

* **
When Carter dies, I will not wait 8 hours in line to honor Reagan in the Capitol's Rotunda--open all night--like I did with many friends and their kids and countless people in WHEELCHAIRS, in June 2004.

People lined the streets of Washington to see his caisson go by with his boots backward on the riderless horse.

800 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:38:33pm

re: #798 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm signing off for the night.
jcm *highfive*
{goddess}

Cya Boomer

801 outsidephilly  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:38:37pm

re: #711 mama winger

I need my baseball game

I was promised a baseball game and dagnabbit there better be one

. . . , I think the rain is starting to ease up

802 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:39:00pm

re: #798 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm signing off for the night.
jcm *highfive*
{goddess}

{pre-Boomer Marine brat}

MWAH!

803 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:39:11pm

re: #800 sattv4u2

Cya Boomer

G'night there!

804 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:39:32pm

re: #802 goddessoftheclassroom

{pre-Boomer Marine brat}

MWAH!

MMMMMMMMMMMWAH!

805 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:39:46pm

re: #802 goddessoftheclassroom

{pre-Boomer Marine brat}

MWAH!

wow ,,, if I knew leaving would get a MWAH from GOTC I'd install a revolving door!

806 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:40:14pm
807 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:40:25pm

re: #798 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm signing off for the night.
jcm *highfive*
{goddess}

Sleep well.

808 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:40:37pm

re: #805 sattv4u2

wow ,,, if I knew leaving would get a MWAH from GOTC I'd install a revolving door!

So this is for you!

809 Gorgon Zola  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:40:47pm

October 25, 2008, 11:19 PM (GMT+02:00

Tzipi Livni runs out of time

Kadima leader foreign minister Tzipi Livni is due to present herself to president Shimon Peres Sunday afternoon, Oct. 26, to inform him of her failure to win over partners for a viable coalition government. After allowing three weeks for another would-be prime minister to come forward with 61 Knesset member supporters, the Knesset is dissolved and a general election called, most probably for February 17, 2009.

The veto ruled by the ultra-religious Shas party’s rabbinical council finally put paid Friday, Oct. 24, to foreign minister Tzipi Livni’s prospects.

810 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:40:47pm

re: #806 taxfreekiller

Canada can have them.

811 stevieray  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:40:55pm

re: #801 outsidephilly

. . . , I think the rain is starting to ease up

Its over me now [Jersey shore].

Ooohhh! Lightning!

Going to the back deck to watch the storm.

812 Gus 802  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:42:15pm

re: #799 alegrias

I sure won't in any capacity. Given his behavior for the past 20 years. His rhetoric against a sitting president (Bush) during the past 8 years.

This is from Reagan's funeral when they gave Nancy the American flag.

Still chokes me up to see that.

813 jaunte  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:42:23pm

re: #806 taxfreekiller

comintern

814 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:42:33pm

Love you guys, but I spend entirely too much time here.

So, what you wanna talk about now?

815 outsidephilly  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:42:45pm

re: #811 stevieray

Its over me now [Jersey shore].

Ooohhh! Lightning!

Going to the back deck to watch the storm.

We just had several rounds of thunder, and LOTS of rain!

816 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:42:55pm

re: #808 goddessoftheclassroom

So this is for you!

pppuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

817 Adina in Judea  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:43:51pm

OT:

Israel seems to be going to elections (per Tzipi Livni who has indicated that she will make the formal move tomorrow that will start the process.)

I'm very relieved!

Israel desperately needs to go to elections.

Livni won her party's primary by a very slim margin. This is no mandate to become the Prime Minister! Israel's voters need a say in who will be the next PM and I'm really glad this will happen.

818 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:44:00pm

This year's October Surprise is that there will be no October Surprise. Surprise!

819 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:44:16pm

re: #770 JacksonTn

Good Evening Lizards ....did Senator Government quit yet? ......(wishing) .. Busy day on the farm ......dug many holes to put jars in just in case Senator Government steals the election .......we ain't paying no more stinkin taxes ....I see much cash transactions and bartering in the future if he gets in ... But I am not giving up EVER ......

We had a family get together last Thursday and It was disheartening to say the least, as my parents showed me a picture of their house with an Obama sign planted on it. I laughed at first, I thought it was a joke, but no they were serious. My brother started going into as how this financial collapse was all Bush's fault and the debate stopped cold when I answered that no Bush and the Republicans had nothing to do with the collapse and got no further when 'me beloved brother screamed "Bullshit" and the family terminated the debate by unanimous consent. I really think Obama and the media has got half of America brain washed and a significant percentage of what is left is voting for Obama based upon race not character. I will grit my teeth like the rest of you and we will muddle through till 2012 and then we elect Newt!

820 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:44:19pm

That video with Biden being grilled that was posted here about 8 hours ago is now a BIG headline on Drudge. Or was it there earlier?

821 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:44:21pm

re: #789 MrPaulRevere

An important distinction should be made I think. One can have Republican sympathies, vote exclusively Republican and still not BE a Republican. You have to join the party to actually be one. I did for 4 years, then left when Hastert abandoned all principles and became just another beltway operative. And don't get me started on Jack Abramhoff.

* * *
I've never registered as a party person because you don't have to in Virginia. I voted for our black democrat governor and Charles Robb the democrat for governor but tend to side with defense hawks and republicans more, though respecting third party Ross Perot's gutsy testosteroney attempt to inject fiscal & muscular action into the presidency.

822 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:45:00pm

re: #809 Gorgon Zola

What are the provisions, does a caretaker gov't take over, or does the existing continue?

823 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:45:32pm

re: #812 Gus 802

I sure won't in any capacity. Given his behavior for the past 20 years. His rhetoric against a sitting president (Bush) during the past 8 years.

This is from Reagan's funeral when they gave Nancy the American flag.

Still chokes me up to see that.

I bought the C-span DVD's of Reagan's funeral. Several hours of coverage, no talking heads. I've watched it several times.

824 wolfie  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:45:41pm

re: #814 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

itty bitty bitty fish

825 yochanan  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:23pm

i was a socialist in my youth till i could no longer take there anti semitism, after that i was a independent did not become a republican till after 2002 even though i had voted a streight republican ticket in 2002 but the hatred and defeatism of the democrat party is what sealed it for me.

for 30 years i voted for the man who got the majority of votes in the presidental race, one time holding my nose another time really voting for the v.p..

9-11 turned me into a HAWK. before that i was a HAWK ON ISRAEL but not so much here in America but sept 11 proved that we could be attacked as well.

826 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:25pm

re: #608 Charles

Heh. But seriously -- and somewhat disconcertingly -- they do care what I have to say. They've attacked me twice now at their deceptive web site. They really didn't like having their ties to Islamist creationists exposed.

All good Republicans are supposed to say "How high?" when the religious fanatics say "Jump!" I'm a bad Republican.

Guess I am even worse since I am an Independent Conservative (self-proclaimed).

827 Thanos  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:42pm
828 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:42pm

re: #814 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Love you guys, but I spend entirely too much time here.

So, what you wanna talk about now?

Sarah Palin's Beaver, PA ral....Never mind.

829 itellu3times  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:48pm

OT: Apparently there's an old tradition of giving a dictionary and thesaurus as bar mitzvah gifts. In this day and age, will any kid really want to use a physical book version of dictionary and thesaurus?

Why doesn't Google print a dictionary?

830 LoFlyer  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:55pm

re: #794 Outrider

Your alter ego screen persona passed my mind today.

My Granddaughter is nine months old and doesn't talk yet. But, I have taught her to snarl/growl in the best manner of the pirates arrgghh matey tradition. Sounds funnier than hell when she does it. ;-)>

Here something to help you and 'ye granddaughter out! click on the pirate talk link!

831 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:46:57pm

re: #824 wolfie

ugh. But, I have been called a hippie tonight. For the first time in my life, I've been called a hippie. You'd think I lived in Floyd.

832 David Simon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:47:02pm

re: #789 MrPaulRevere

An important distinction should be made I think. One can have Republican sympathies, vote exclusively Republican and still not BE a Republican. You have to join the party to actually be one. I did for 4 years, then left when Hastert abandoned all principles and became just another beltway operative. And don't get me started on Jack Abramhoff.

Like you, I'm not a Republican; I just always end up voting Republican because it's the lesser of two evils.

But that doesn't mean that I'm complacent. I will continue to fight for conservative principles; and I will vote for the candidate - Democrat or Republican - who I feel embraces them.

833 Palandine  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:47:09pm

re: #820 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

That video with Biden being grilled that was posted here about 8 hours ago is now a BIG headline on Drudge. Or was it there earlier?

I saw it first on Drudge. It's damning stuff--that campaign simply WILL NOT answer a question.

This will matter next week.

834 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:47:16pm

re: #817 Adina in Judea

OT:

Israel seems to be going to elections (per Tzipi Livni who has indicated that she will make the formal move tomorrow that will start the process.)

I'm very relieved!

Israel desperately needs to go to elections.

Livni won her party's primary by a very slim margin. This is no mandate to become the Prime Minister! Israel's voters need a say in who will be the next PM and I'm really glad this will happen.

Bibi?

835 yochanan  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:47:58pm

re: #741 sattv4u2

A QIUCK OLDTIMERS THOUGHT ABOUT BASEBALL

Baseball should NOT be played in November!

/rant off

unless it is in fla or southern cal.

836 Octohedron[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:48:09pm
837 outsidephilly  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:48:15pm

re: #819 LoFlyer

We had a family get together last Thursday and It was disheartening to say the least, as my parents showed me a picture of their house with an Obama sign planted on it. I laughed at first, I thought it was a joke, but no they were serious. My brother started going into as how this financial collapse was all Bush's fault and the debate stopped cold when I answered that no Bush and the Republicans had nothing to do with the collapse and got no further when 'me beloved brother screamed "Bullshit" and the family terminated the debate by unanimous consent. I really think Obama and the media has got half of America brain washed and a significant percentage of what is left is voting for Obama based upon race not character. I will grit my teeth like the rest of you and we will muddle through till 2012 and then we elect Newt!


Similar goings on in my family, also!

838 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:48:31pm

re: #819 LoFlyer

I have an iron-clad rule for ANY gathering: no politics. I was at my son's soccer game Friday, and two other moms (whom I like very much) started to comment on Sarah Palin's clothing budget. I said, in a very mild way, "Ok now, no politics." One of them said in genuine surprise, "Why? Do you LIKE Sarah Palin?" I answered, "Yes, I do." End of discussion.

839 neocon hippie  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:48:32pm

MY first presidential election was in 1980. I voted for either John Anderson or Barry Commoner, can't remember which. Voted for the Democrat candidate through 2000, never registered for the party AFAICR. Voted for Bush in 2004, registered GOP so I could vote for Rudy in the CA primary, but Rudy dropped out so I voted for Mitt.

840 pat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:03pm

I am voting for VP in this election. Don't go for everything she says, but she shows little inclination to shove her social views down my throat. And have no doubt Obama intends to shove his radical social agenda down the throat of the country.

841 Outrider  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:09pm

stick in 3..2..1.. (whack)

842 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:18pm

re: #812 Gus 802

I sure won't in any capacity. Given his behavior for the past 20 years. His rhetoric against a sitting president (Bush) during the past 8 years.

This is from Reagan's funeral when they gave Nancy the American flag.

Still chokes me up to see that.


* * *

Me too. Nancy really loved Ronnie & gave him the strength to do what he did for 8 years, after getting shot nearly mortally his second month in office. What kind of love was this.

I misspoke above --I meant to say I waited to see Reagan's casket 8 hours but NO WAY will I honor that crappy though perhaps well-intentioned nucular engineer Carter. I will not honor a man who brought his country down.

843 wolfie  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:22pm

re: #821 alegrias

I voted for Wilder, too, and he turned out to be a good governor.
None of that cheap race-baiting and class warfare stuff.
Too bad he's has had to go left and into the sewer to succeed in Richmond politics. Ugh.

844 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:37pm
845 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:38pm

re: #829 itellu3times

OT: Apparently there's an old tradition of giving a dictionary and thesaurus as bar mitzvah gifts. In this day and age, will any kid really want to use a physical book version of dictionary and thesaurus?

Why doesn't Google print a dictionary?

dictionary.com is my favorite. It's faster for me because I tend to start reading all the other entries in a "real" dictionary.

846 middlecon  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:49:40pm

I guess now that Jane Pauley is no longer a working journalist she is free to let her political leanings be known, from my old hometown paper:

[Link: www.thestarpress.com...]

847 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:50:18pm

re: #820 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

That video with Biden being grilled that was posted here about 8 hours ago is now a BIG headline on Drudge. Or was it there earlier?

Excellent, on Drudge it will get around.

848 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:50:59pm

re: #845 goddessoftheclassroom

dictionary.com is my favorite. It's faster for me because I tend to start reading all the other entries in a "real" dictionary.

I've been reading the phone book. It has a hell of a list of characters, but I can't egt into the plot yet!

849 yochanan  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:51:05pm

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

JERUSALEM IS NOT FOR SALE, SHAS moved in the right direction when it put JERUSALEM ahead of its support for welfare.

850 Devolving One  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:51:11pm

Call Child Protective Services on me.

My two boys don't believe in Darwinian Gradualism, or that God used Evolution to "create." We have a higher view of God than that.

The fear that is exhibited by some here truly borders on the irrational. Some posts reveal a simple ignorance of the facts - others sheer bigotry.

All education is religious in nature. Neutrality in Education is a myth. All education sets forth a paradigm, framework, or world-view through which reality is processed and by which laws, morals, meaning, and values are determined. You can oppose I.D./Creationist proponents, thinking they are trying to force their religious views on kids, but stop fooling yourself if you think your kids are not immersed in a Dogmatic Secularism every day - at YOUR expense.

There is far more than a culture war taking place.

851 alegrias  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:51:21pm

re: #806 taxfreekiller

ACORN IN CANADA

WHAT THE F'

* * *
International Community Organizers

Just another word for "Community Organizers of the World, Unite"

Saul Alinsky and Karl Marx and Castro, Oh My.

852 JCM  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:51:53pm

re: #845 goddessoftheclassroom

dictionary.com is my favorite. It's faster for me because I tend to start reading all the other entries in a "real" dictionary.

I still have a .edu account, life time alum, which gives me online access to the OED. I love the etymology of word.

853 wolfie  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:51:56pm

re: #831 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heh. :)
I have a hippie home-schooling friend who lives in Floyd and raises sheep and bunny rabbits.

854 JacksonTn  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:52:07pm

re: #819 LoFlyer

We had a family get together last Thursday and It was disheartening to say the least, as my parents showed me a picture of their house with an Obama sign planted on it. I laughed at first, I thought it was a joke, but no they were serious. My brother started going into as how this financial collapse was all Bush's fault and the debate stopped cold when I answered that no Bush and the Republicans had nothing to do with the collapse and got no further when 'me beloved brother screamed "Bullshit" and the family terminated the debate by unanimous consent. I really think Obama and the media has got half of America brain washed and a significant percentage of what is left is voting for Obama based upon race not character. I will grit my teeth like the rest of you and we will muddle through till 2012 and then we elect Newt!

Yes matey ... it is sad. My side of the family are dems .. all voting McCain except one niece and her husband ... he is a professor (shock) and he is so pro-Obama that I am putting off going to their house in Nevada until after the election and they had a new baby a couple of months ago.... I never really got along with him much before as he believes he is waaaaay smarter than anyone .. I usually just let him gab but this election is just too much and I don't want it to come between my niece and me .. so I will stay away for now. Sad ..I have heard of many families who are having problems because of this election and know many who have lost friends ..... I cannot wait for this to end ..

855 pat  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:52:07pm

One of the daddist things will be that if Obama will be elected, many expect that there will be a backlash when his incompetence and freakish ideas become law. To the contrary he will be adulated and the realist will be vilified.

856 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Oct 25, 2008 6:52:21pm

re: #608 Charles

All good Republicans are supposed to say "How high?" when the religious fanatics say "Jump!" I'm a bad Republican.

Not so, sir, not so.

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
-Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.
-The Washington Post (28 July 1994)

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sur