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And Now for Some iPhone News

Science | Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:54:36 pm PDT

Two very cool pieces of news for iPhone geeks:

1) Google Earth for iPhone. Need I say more?

2) Free Wi-Fi for iPhone owners at thousands of AT&T hotspots, including Starbucks and McDonalds.

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700 comments

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1 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:56:55pm

Should really upgrade the PalmPilot one of these days...

2 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:57:09pm

I want a Me-phone!

3 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:57:13pm

I'm waiting for the mePhone.

4 vxbush  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:57:24pm

Sigh. Two more reasons to drool.

5 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:57:51pm

d'oh

6 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:58:18pm

Is there anything an iphone can't do?

7 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:59:15pm

PHILLIES!

8 LoFlyer  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:59:44pm

Charles, I know the site is being hit hard due to interest as the election approaches, but it is all this traffic legitimate? It would be in the Socialists favor to down this site in hopes of obtaining an Obama victory....

9 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 6:59:53pm

re: #3 HelloDare

I'm waiting for the mePhone.

Beat you by '' that much!

10 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:00:10pm

The lady on Deal or No Seal just won a million dollars.

Lady- 0bama's coming for you.

11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:01:36pm

re: #10 Sharmuta

The lady on Deal or No Seal just won a million dollars.

Lady- 0bama's coming for you.

Is the Seal PETA-approved? : )

12 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:03:28pm

I'm going to wait a few months till they iron out the kinks. The GPS on my iWaffleIron is giving me problems.

13 Jamie Irons  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:03:40pm

Yeah, these two are cool, but I'm waiting for the LGF Lizard-Reader app...


Jamie Irons

14 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:03:43pm

I am very happy with my communication network, thank you very much.

15 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:06:27pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

Is there anything an iphone can't do?

It vibrates, so I guess the answer is, "No."

16 gop_patriot  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:08:56pm

re: #15 HelloDare

It vibrates, so I guess the answer is, "No."

LOL!

17 saberry0530  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:09:16pm

re: #15 HelloDare

It vibrates, so I guess the answer is, "No."

Gives the old Ad slogan "Reach out and touch someone" a whole new meaning.

18 stevieray  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:11:01pm

Soon we'll all have an oPhone -- implanted!

/i hope...

19 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:11:42pm

Perfect timing.

I need a new cell phone ( currently using a motorola razor)

I'd say I'd use the internet once ot twice per week from my phone. Not a priority for me, but nice to have. I don't feel like spending a fortune for a phone since half the time I can't find it


Would it be worth it to get an iPhone, or are there better options?

I love my iPod and shuffle

20 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:11:46pm

Sure enough, even the "journalists" on Fox News are now closing ranks to defend the Los Angeles Times.

The entire media establishment is corrupt.

21 Karridine  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:12:25pm

Almost enough to persuade me to return to CONUS...

/depending on the outcome of 4-11-2008

22 gop_patriot  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:13:08pm

re: #20 Charles

I don't have Fox, what are they saying?

23 guzziguy  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:13:20pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

Is there anything an iphone can't do?

Yes. I work out in the boonies. The iPhone network doesn't reach there. If it did, I'd own one.

24 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:13:27pm

Did you say 'free'?

Neato.

25 jorline  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:13:32pm

Best function of an iPhone.

27 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:18:04pm

More cowbell.

28 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:18:44pm

If there were some national secrets on that Khalidi video, it would have been on YouTube in April.

29 Karridine  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:19:30pm

"journalists 'close ranks'"?

Citizens make a bigger stink, a bigger noise! Indignation rampant!

RELEASE the VIDEO!

30 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:19:42pm

re: #27 rawmuse

More cowbell.

Enough to drown out The One.

31 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:20:03pm

Bernie Goldberg is the only one I've seen who's even raised the issue of whether the LA Times is telling the truth when they say they promised their source not to release the tape.

I'm not going to mince words. I think they're lying. It took them 3 days to come up with that excuse, and they floated several other excuses before it.

If you had a personal acquaintance who told contradictory stories like this about an incident they were involved in, would you believe them?

32 mattm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:20:08pm

Anyone notice The American Flag now appears with The One much more often. The camera will get is, even if they shoot form a odd angle.

33 yah  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:20:25pm

re: #20 Charles
They see the writing on the wall. Government run TV. Courtesy of Obama and friends.

34 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:20:49pm

The media is rigorously partisan.

But we've had this 'veil of neutrality' sold to us.

35 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:21:45pm

re: #31 Charles

Lies are just tools. Any means to an end, got to break some eggs to make and omelette, all in service of the "greater good", blah, blah, blah.

36 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:21:47pm

re: #28 HelloDare

If there were some national secrets on that Khalidi video, it would have been on YouTube in April.

No. You'd get a free copy with every subscription.

37 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:23:50pm

re: #31 Charles

Reminds me of Christmas in Cambodia.

38 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:24:44pm

Hey, I'm spamming myself here.

39 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:25:06pm

Can you imagine what the contents are? I keep thinking of damning dialogue over and over again...

40 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:26:33pm

If the tape is totally innocuous, they'd have no problem releasing it.

They have a problem releasing it because it's "sensitive" and could hurt Obama and/or the leaker.

It has nothing to do with promises or integrity. It has everything to do with cost/benefit.

41 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:27:10pm

re: #31 Charles

Bernie Goldberg is the only one I've seen who's even raised the issue of whether the LA Times is telling the truth when they say they promised their source not to release the tape.

I'm not going to mince words. I think they're lying. It took them 3 days to come up with that excuse, and they floated several other excuses before it.

If you had a personal acquaintance who told contradictory stories like this about an incident they were involved in, would you believe them?

That about nails it, I'm afraid.

42 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:27:36pm

iPhone News?

Does this mean that long LGF threads won't crash Safari anymore?

43 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:27:41pm

re: #31 Charles

Bernie Goldberg is the only one I've seen who's even raised the issue of whether the LA Times is telling the truth when they say they promised their source not to release the tape.

I'm not going to mince words. I think they're lying. It took them 3 days to come up with that excuse, and they floated several other excuses before it.

If you had a personal acquaintance who told contradictory stories like this about an incident they were involved in, would you believe them?

Think of the implications of this vis a vis Israel:

The individual who "leaked" this to the LAT but did so conditionally now has a major stick that he can hold over Obama.

If Obama makes the "wrong" moves regarding what the PLO wants, the video can be published with or without the LA Times - other copies must exist.

Think about it - Obama is now black mailed by the PLO.

44 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:28:06pm

re: #39 WriterMom

I'm betting there's footage of anti-Israel speeches with Obama there, nodding, smiling, smoking, and drinking.

45 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:28:27pm

re: #31 Charles

Charles, the National Post has picked up the story here in Canada.

46 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:29:26pm

re: #44 godfrey

I picture them smoking a hookah, wearing keffiyahs and ululating to chants of 'death to Israel'. LOL.

47 bosforus  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:29:39pm
Obama's 'Civilian National Security Force'

Gotta have someone to enforce all the new 'hate crime' laws to come.

48 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:29:50pm

Is this thing on?

49 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:30:25pm

re: #34 experiencedtraveller

The media is rigorously partisan.

But we've had this 'veil of neutrality' sold to us.

It would be nice if they would just admit what they are so the American people can decide if that's what they want to support with their time and money.

But then again- with readership and ratings down, it looks like the American people have already decided.

50 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:30:29pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Is this thing on?

No.

51 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:30:43pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Is this thing on?

No.

52 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:31:04pm

re: #44 godfrey

I'm guessing it's footage of Obama and Ayers yucking it up together.

53 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:31:18pm

Heh.

54 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:32:07pm

re: #50 karmic_inquisitor

GMTA!

55 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:32:42pm

The blackmail angle is interesting and stands to reason. Once you're in with that crowd, it must be like being pwned by the mafia.

An apostate Muslim being blackmailed by PLO types. There's a good situation for the POTUS to be in...

WM, nah, Obama will be there looking "thoughtful and grave" while the crazies give themselves leg tingles. Not that he's not tingling, himself. He's just good at presenting a front, as we know.

56 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:33:21pm

Something to ponder..

If Obama wasn't a politician, he couldn't get a security clearance from the FBI.

57 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:33:24pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

He congratulates Khalidi for his work saying “Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine” plus there’s been “genocide against the Palestinian people by Israelis.”

This is the rumor, and it's damning.

58 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:34:26pm

This taxcutfacts.org commercial Nobama is running is complete bullshit- It claims the conservative Heritage Foudation supports the asshole's bullshit "tax cut" plan and they do not. They sent his campaign a letter asking them to remove the reference to Heritage and the asshole's campaign refused to.

60 bosforus  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:35:22pm

What industry in its right mind would report its own corruption? It's against its own nature. We must become the new truth reporters and expose the lies and failings of the current "journalists" that are entrenched in the current media industry. It must be total revolt against what currently exists able to broadcast to the largest population possible. "CNN", "NBC", "ABC", "AP", etc must be removed from our minds and the minds of the common American as traditional and acceptable sources of reliable information. Their tentacles are deep and well-funded but exposing them will prove to be their end.

61 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:35:31pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

lol

Ayers: Barack, dude, you are the bomb!
Obama: No ha ha ha, Bill, YOU are the bomb!
Ayers: (looking around nervously) Hey, easy there...
Obama: Oh. Right. Sorry.
(pause)
Obama: But you are the bomb, you know.
Ayers: No, you the bomb!
(they laugh)

62 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:36:34pm

I read this comment at another site:

Alexander Sozhenitsyn is an expert.

In his Gulag Archipelago, he explains that even "while they are dragging you away, you will tell yourself it is a mistake. I am innocent. They will let me go. " At what point, then, should one resist? When one's belt is taken away? When one is ordered to face into a corner? When one crosses the threshold of one's home?....

In a famous footnote on page 13 of my addition, he writes: "And how we burned in those camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive....Or if, during periods of mass arrests...people had not simple sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door...and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

"If...If...We didn't love freedom enough... We submitted with pleasure! We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward."

Solzhenitsyn says, "Resistance should have begun right there, at that moment of the arrest itself. But it did not begin."

Of course, he is talking about Russia. Here the same thing would have a different style. For instance, in in the Soviet Union you were simply arrested. Here, if you ask one of the super patriot zombies whether you are being arrested, he will say you are not, but you must go along to the camp.

63 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:36:43pm

re: #58 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

That is nervy, no? I belong to Heritage. No way in hell they would endorse anything Obama said. They might even disagree that tomorrow is Thursday.

64 wolfie  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:37:08pm

re: #58 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Can they sue?

65 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:37:14pm

I would like to hear someone ask Obama if he were President would he ever invite his "neighbors" Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn into the White House.

66 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:37:34pm

re: #61 godfrey

HAHAHAHAHA

funny

67 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:38:02pm

Maybe Ayers and Obama did a comedy act.(Last time ayers tried that he really bombed )
'How do you get a one armed Judge out of a tree? With a bazooka"

/rimshot


and Khalidi was there dressed as the unknown comic, except he was wearing a balaclava

68 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:38:02pm

Rev. Wright will be invited to the Lincoln Bedroom.

On the q.t.

69 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:38:56pm

re: #55 godfrey

godfrey, if you want me to stick around, you are gonna have to stop putting The One, tingle and self-tingle in the same post.

70 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:40:12pm

If Obama were to be investigated by the FBI for a security clearance there would be more red flags than a May Day parade in Moscow.

71 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:41:00pm

re: #42 Dar ul Harb

iPhone News?

Does this mean that long LGF threads won't crash Safari anymore?

The only way to prevent iPhone Safari from crashing on long comment threads would be to install some kind of pagination system. It's a memory issue. The iPhone has limited memory and it gets unhappy when you exceed the limits.

Every time I raise the pagination issue, though, LGF readers get unhappy.

There's no doubt that paginating comments would make it more difficult to follow conversations, and introduce other kinds of continuity problems too. People would respond to something they saw on the first page, only to find out that it was a non-issue by the third page.

I'm still trying to imagine a pagination system that gets around the continuity issue, but it's a real conundrum.

72 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:41:45pm

re: #65 Mich-again

I would like to hear someone ask Obama if he were President would he ever invite his "neighbors" Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn into the White House.

"Hey, Billy, come over Thursday night. Have a blast."

73 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:41:46pm
74 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:42:46pm

re: #69 WriterMom

lol

I'm glad I didn't see The One's infomercial. It sounded like a major snooze. What a putz, to blow that kind of cash that way. At least come out and fire things up! For that kind of money, he should've been breathing fire and stomping out every hostile meme in the universe.

He didn't, so it's money wasted.

Which, of course, makes me really happy. Now if he would just go away, permanently.

/off to bed

75 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:43:35pm

From Instapundit...
What It Will Take to Build a Rightroots Movement

What will it take to turn this around? If you're a conservative blogger, the question you need to ask yourself is this. Is the main purpose of your blog to express your personal opinion? Or is its primary purpose to build political power for a cause? If you cannot answer yes to the latter, you're probably not going to be comfortable with making the changes necessary to make online conservatism a political force to be reckoned with.

This is not a criticism, but an observation. Most conservative blogs are still stuck in 2003....


Shall we become shills? What say you?

76 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:44:01pm

re: #71 Charles

Or, Apple could pump up the iPhone with LGF-ready RAM.

77 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:44:33pm

re: #76 godfrey

Or, Apple could pump up the iPhone with LGF-ready RAM.

iLizard

78 razorbacker  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:44:56pm
79 sharp_discernment  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:45:46pm

Leader dude of Puma is on Fox with Greta....

80 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:46:20pm

Greta interviewing a very excited PUMA. Dude is beaming.

81 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:46:27pm

re: #64 wolfie

Can they sue?

/I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Express last night, so I do not know. : )

82 sharp_discernment  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:46:37pm

re: #80 Mich-again

Greta interviewing a very excited PUMA. Dude is beaming.

YAR!

83 godfrey  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:46:41pm

re: #70 Mich-again

Every military guy I talk to is worried and furious about the security clearance issue.

84 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:46:51pm

Check out the role of copper in South America in the 70s.

The demand for that lowly metal changed the face of a hemisphere.

85 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:19pm

re: #71 Charles

Have you thought about a bare bones version of LGF until after the election? Baybe temporarily ditching avatars and unnecessary graphics might help ease the load.

86 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:30pm

re: #71 Charles


I'm still trying to imagine a pagination system that gets around the continuity issue, but it's a real conundrum.

On the other hand, I don't think there's that much continuity in a thread of 800-1000 posts. No one goes back and forth that far.

87 bosforus  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:37pm

re: #71 Charles

As one who has commented against pagination whenever it's been brought up I should probably tell you I've compromised a bit on that. Pages of 100-200 comments sits well with me. My biggest objection to pagination is based on the ease of scrolling through comments to follow other posters' conversations. But since the comment number is included in replies, a 100-comment pagination wouldn't be very inconvenient to deal with. Just my two cents.

88 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:42pm

What is a PUMA?

89 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:51pm

re: #83 godfrey


I hadn't really thought of that before. Is it being talked about much?

90 quickredfox  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:51pm

I've been using clusty.com as a search engine, typed in Khalidi just now, and the very first thing listed at the top of the page is:

"Sponsored Results
1. Obama and Khalidi Myth - Khalidi Doesn't Advise Barack Obama Barack Obama Fully Supports Israel. - Khalidi.FightTheSmears.com"

It not yet being 8:00 p.m. here in Calif., I suppose I can still catch the Obamamercial, but plan on avoiding it like the proverbial plague. My appreciation to those lizards with tough scales, who have watched it so I don't have to.

That "civilian national security force" is creeping me out. Just what is that supposed to be?

91 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:52pm

re: #77 Shug

LiZard.

8D

92 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:47:56pm

re: #81 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

/I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Express last night, so I do not know. : )

PIMF- Holiday Inn Express

93 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:48:40pm

re: #82 sharp_discernment

YAR!

Pirate talk is verboten.
/

94 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:48:41pm

Dita Beard?

95 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:48:50pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

From Instapundit...
What It Will Take to Build a Rightroots Movement


Shall we become shills? What say you?

The question is really: "what is the purpose of blogs?"

I've never believed that my purpose is to shill for one party or another, and that isn't going to change. Patrick Ruffini is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, so of course he thinks the purpose of blogs is to shill for the party.

I think the only way blogs will ever continue to be credible is if they stay above this crap, and criticize all sides as needed. Left-wing blogs stink because they're nothing more than mouthpieces for the Democratic party.

And I'll shut LGF down before I turn it into a right-wing clone of the Daily Kos.

Sorry, not interested in being that.

96 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:48:54pm

re: #20 Charles

Sure enough, even the "journalists" on Fox News are now closing ranks to defend the Los Angeles Times.

The entire media establishment is corrupt.

It is why I cancelled cable - I hesitated for a moment when I considered that I wouldn't be able to watch FOX - that moment passed when I considered that they gave a show to Huckabee the clown who engaged in class warfare to belittle Romney- and now the cable is gone.

97 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:49:12pm

re: #80 Mich-again

Greta interviewing a very excited PUMA. Dude is beaming.

Might have something to do with this.

98 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:49:35pm

re: #88 WriterMom

What is a PUMA?

Party Unity My Ass- Hillary supporters for McCain.

99 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:49:56pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

Ooh-a little faster would be great. Things are still very slow and I keep getting the dreaded spinning ball all the time...

100 earthwirm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:50:01pm

Lizards. I got an email from Matthew Mosky and I have sent him screen caps and evidence of Obama's loose standards. Here is his email to me. I also copied charles@littlegreenfootballs.com (I hope this is his email).

---


Thanks for your note, Mr. Hall. I would be interested in seeing evidence of the contribution you're describing.


-----James Hall wrote: -----

To: moskm@washpost.com
From: James Hall
Date: 10/29/2008 11:41AM
Subject: Message via washingtonpost.com: Obama credit fraud

James Hall sent the following message:

Obama's team is not scrutinizing contributions made after the fact either. My $5 donation to his campaign as Osama Bin Laden who resided in a cave in Waziristan, occupation Terrorist Leader was processed and applied to my account even though the address I supplied was completely wrong.

I have screen captures of this process and of my bank statement if you would like. Obama is accepting illicit funds for his campaign and if GOP candidate was involved in fraud like this, he would be arrested and thrown into jail. Please update your article, I can provide supporting evidence if you need.

101 guzziguy  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:50:17pm

Party Unity My Ass = Hillary Democrats

102 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:50:53pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

From Instapundit...
What It Will Take to Build a Rightroots Movement


Shall we become shills? What say you?

I've thought about taking one for the team and getting my teacher's cert to start countering the agitprop spewed in the classroom. Even my nephew gets a load of it at his private Catholic school - real moonbat stuff.

But the thought of spending 15K and a year in those stupid classes with the lowest SAT and GPA bunch of leftards

103 BlueCanuck  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:51:18pm

Remember signing up back in my day. My mom was born in Liberia. Recruiting sargeant thought I said Libya. Got really strange when he asked me her nationality and I said Canadian. "Immigrated?" said he. Nope, always been a Canadian. "Dual Citizenship?" Eventually got him straightened out.

/Liberia had it in their constitution that Caucasians couldn't be citizens. Naturally devolved back on the parents nationality.

//Still caused a longer then normal security background check though.

104 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:51:52pm

Audio of Obama saying that the Founding Fathers had "blind spots" and the Constitution reflects the "fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day."

105 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:52:25pm

re: #100 earthwirm

Did you want your name out here...maybe flag that.

106 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:52:38pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

From Instapundit...
What It Will Take to Build a Rightroots Movement


Shall we become shills? What say you?

I think the approach is all wrong. The movement starts at the real grassroots level- the actual party in local areas, not on the net. If people are displeased with what they see from the party, change must come from boots on the ground. Republicans must get involved with the party- there is no shifting this onto blogs.

107 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:52:50pm

re: #97 Sharmuta

I visited a factory today where I used to work and even some of the rank and file I know were talking up McCain. And like a good salesman knows, once the customer decides to buy, stop talking. So I just nodded and kept quiet.

108 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:52:56pm

re: #98 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

thanks

109 Karridine  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:53:22pm

re: #61 godfrey

lol

Ayers: Barack, dude, you are the bomb!
Obama: No ha ha ha, Bill, YOU are the bomb!
Ayers: (looking around nervously) Hey, easy there...
Obama: Oh. Right. Sorry.
(pause)
Obama: But you are the bomb, you know.
Ayers: No, you the bomb!
(they laugh)
Obama: I think about you, Bill...
Ayers: Yeah?
Obama: Yes... (softly) each time I start the car...

110 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:53:57pm

Obama and Ayers are Political Predators. They prey on the vulnerabilities of the ignorant masses who they themselves have enfeebled and demoralized.

Sick, disgusting Political Predators.

111 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:54:08pm

re: #108 WriterMom

thanks

No problem. That's why I get paid the big bucks! : )

112 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:54:15pm

re: #106 Sharmuta

I think the approach is all wrong. The movement starts at the real grassroots level- the actual party in local areas, not on the net. If people are displeased with what they see from the party, change must come from boots on the ground. Republicans must get involved with the party- there is no shifting this onto blogs.

I guess the progressive types have something to teach us after all.

113 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:54:57pm

re: #110 DistantThunder

They prey on the vulnerabilities of the ignorant masses

Thats pretty much the definition of demagogue.

114 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:55:05pm

re: #111 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I'll make sure to mention it to my friend at the ZOG payroll department.

115 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:55:11pm

re: #95 Charles

I think the only way blogs will ever continue to be credible is if they stay above this crap, and criticize all sides as needed. Left-wing blogs stink because they're nothing more than mouthpieces for the Democratic party.

And I'll shut LGF down before I turn it into a right-wing clone of the Daily Kos.

Sorry, not interested in being that.

You're probably right. Although the polls are tightening, I'm still anticipating an Obama win and there's no telling how the Republicans are gong to react. Future Republican politics may not be some I'm interested in, I assume others might feel the same. It just doesn't make sense to ttry to turn "right wing" blogs into fundraising machines. Readership would evaporate pretty quickly.

116 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:55:35pm

re: #107 Mich-again

I met a young Joe the Plumber the other morning. There are more of us then we've been led to believe, and the same is true of the PUMAs.

117 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:55:37pm

re: #95 Charles

I LOVE YOU, CHARLES!

118 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:56:44pm

re: #117 MandyManners

What am I? Chopped LIVAH?

119 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:56:55pm

re: #103 BlueCanuck

Liberia had it in their constitution that Caucasians couldn't be citizens. Naturally devolved back on the parents nationality.

I never knew that.

120 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:57:41pm

If Obama wins, there's going to be a big push to get bloggers to sign onto becoming the Daily Right-Wing Kos. And there's going to be an even bigger push to get the GOP to become even more socially conservative, in the misguided belief that "lack of purity" is the reason for the loss.

And they're going to lose me if that happens, just like the Democrats lost me after 9/11.

121 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:57:49pm

re: #106 Sharmuta

I think the approach is all wrong. The movement starts at the real grassroots level- the actual party in local areas, not on the net. If people are displeased with what they see from the party, change must come from boots on the ground. Republicans must get involved with the party- there is no shifting this onto blogs.

It has to be information and education based not just opinion. Each individual has to become conversant in economic theories, and educational theories, and foreign policy theories and their strengths and weaknesses.

We need to read more of the political classics so we are literally on the same page. Most of us have been miseducated by the education system - and so a foundation of essential facts is paramount.

I think Charles is exactly right - forget the allegience to party - it has to be an allegiance to principle based on concrete evidence.

122 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:57:51pm

re: #114 WriterMom

I'll make sure to mention it to my friend at the ZOG payroll department.

What is ZOG?

123 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:57:58pm

re: #104 ciaospirit

Audio of Obama saying that the Founding Fathers had "blind spots" and the Constitution reflects the "fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day."

WHAT?

124 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:58:51pm

re: #95 Charles

I think the only way blogs will ever continue to be credible is if they stay above this crap, and criticize all sides as needed.

Agreed wholeheartedly. To me the best strategy is keep spreading information and increase the knowledge base of the masses. KIP.

125 SteveC  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 7:59:01pm

I was walking home alone last night, when behind me I heard " BUMP...
BUMP...BUMP..."

So I started walking faster. Looking over my shoulder, I saw this *CASKET* coming down the street after me! It was up on its edge and "walking" like a person would!

It got closer and closer, and the lid started clapping open and closed like it was trying to grab me! So I was *RUNNING* by now, and the thing was keeping up with me!

I got home, ran inside, and locked the door. The casket crashed through the wall! All the time that BUMP BUMP sound, and the occasional SNAP as the lid tried to bite me!

So I ran down the hall into the bathroom, closed and locked that door... and the casket CRASHED THROUGH THE DOOR!

Ok, I was praying to God, Jehovah, Buddah, Pharoh, Isis, EVERYBODY by that time. No where else to go, the casket between me and the door, and only a painted shut window behind me.

I was grabbing things and tossing them. A box of kleenex and rolls of toilet paper didn't hurt a bit. I finally grabbed this bottle of Cough Syrup, wound up like a baseball pitcher, and threw that. The bottle hit the casket and shattered! Cough syrup went everywhere!

And that is when the coffin stopped....

*HAPPY HALLOWEEN, LIZARDS!*

126 TheMatrix31  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:00:08pm

re: #123 MandyManners

WHAT?

There you have it. A major presidential nominee DIRECTLY TRASHING our beloved Constitution.

Someone give me a fucking barf bag.

127 poopeedoo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:00:30pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

Have you thought about a bare bones version of LGF until after the election? Baybe temporarily ditching avatars and unnecessary graphics might help ease the load.

What, ditch our avatars? We take pride in our avatars. ;)

128 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:00:49pm

re: #121 DistantThunder

It has to be information and education based not just opinion. Each individual has to become conversant in economic theories, and educational theories, and foreign policy theories and their strengths and weaknesses.

We need to read more of the political classics so we are literally on the same page. Most of us have been miseducated by the education system - and so a foundation of essential facts is paramount.

I think Charles is exactly right - forget the allegience to party - it has to be an allegiance to principle based on concrete evidence.

But the way to bring this to other republicans where it matters is involvement in the party. We don't change the party and bring it back to principles by walking away from it.

129 MandyManners  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:01:03pm

re: #120 Charles

If Obama wins, there's going to be a big push to get bloggers to sign onto becoming the Daily Right-Wing Kos. And there's going to be an even bigger push to get the GOP to become even more socially conservative, in the misguided belief that "lack of purity" is the reason for the loss.

And they're going to lose me if that happens, just like the Democrats lost me after 9/11.

No.

130 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:01:40pm

And by the way, I'll probably get into trouble for saying this, but this is why I've had zero interest in appearing at CPAC or any of the other Republican events.

I don't trust any politicians, right or left. People who put their trust in politicians will get exactly what they deserve.

132 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:02:51pm

re: #128 Sharmuta

But the way to bring this to other republicans where it matters is involvement in the party. We don't change the party and bring it back to principles by walking away from it.

Will the party let us in...will it seek us out...or will it try to dictate to us. Our collective IQ is greater than that of the party leaders. If John McCain wins, he will be the party leader - and then we've got serious challenges.

133 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:03:29pm

re: #130 Charles

And by the way, I'll probably get into trouble for saying this, but this is why I've had zero interest in appearing at CPAC or any of the other Republican events.

I don't trust any politicians, right or left. People who put their trust in politicians will get exactly what they deserve.


Amen!

134 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:04:25pm

re: #123 MandyManners

re: #104 ciaospirit

The full quote, as posted by an Obamaton.

/meaning, no editing but avoid the author's personal commentary if possible.

135 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:05:04pm

re: #130 Charles

And by the way, I'll probably get into trouble for saying this, but this is why I've had zero interest in appearing at CPAC or any of the other Republican events.

I don't trust any politicians, right or left. People who put their trust in politicians will get exactly what they deserve.

Exactly.

136 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:05:17pm

re: #120 Charles

If it isn't the Republicans attempt to be Democrats, while the Democrats run to be socialists, that would lose the election for McCain, what say you IS the problem?

137 WriterMom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:05:18pm

re: #122 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

'zionist occupational government', what antisemites think runs the world..running joke here...

138 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:05:45pm

re: #130 Charles

And by the way, I'll probably get into trouble for saying this, but this is why I've had zero interest in appearing at CPAC or any of the other Republican events.

I don't trust any politicians, right or left. People who put their trust in politicians will get exactly what they deserve.

Yes indeed. I'd expand that to include the government at large. We certainly need a strong national government, for many reasons -- but there's no need for 'trust.'

139 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:05:58pm

Obama's narcissistic epic is on broadcast TV on the West coast.

30 minutes of this hurl fest?

ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

140 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:06:11pm

re: #120 Charles

To me, anti-idiotarianism is about being loyal to facts, and logic, not to any particular Party.

141 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:06:35pm

re: #120 Charles

If Obama wins, there's going to be a big push to get bloggers to sign onto becoming the Daily Right-Wing Kos. And there's going to be an even bigger push to get the GOP to become even more socially conservative, in the misguided belief that "lack of purity" is the reason for the loss.

I really doubt that this will happen.

If Obama wins, I think the main feeling out there is going to be to make sure that we don't all go down with the socialist ship.

It's mostly America that will be in trouble - NOT the Republican party.

I think this is the main difference between liberals and conservatives. The liberals want to win even if it means losing America in the process. They hate losing and they would rather side with enemies and see America go down the tubes than to see their competition win.

Conservatives want America and Americans to be safe.

It's a huge, huge difference between liberals and conservatives.

I think the main concern if Obama wins will be how to save America and Israel (i.e., Americans and Israelis.) Obama will put us all in danger if he wins.

Also, I think Americans will start hoarding money and/or sending it elsewhere to protect it (depending on how much money individuals have.)

I already know people who plan to hold off on buying things (like new cars and new houses) until they see if the socialist is elected. They want to save themselves from ruin in case he's the one who wins.

Saving the Republican party will be way down on the list, but I think Republicans will end up holding onto each other (as well as faith and guns.)

142 sharp_discernment  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:06:46pm

re: #97 Sharmuta

Might have something to do with this.

And it might also have something to do with this...
[Link: hillbuzz.wordpress.com...]

All speculation of course, but I'll be crossing my fingers - hell, who am I kidding, I'm barely getting any SLEEP these days!

143 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:07:05pm

He's talking about companies spending workers pensions.

WTF about social security?

144 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:07:16pm

I do trust John McCain in one thing - he doesn't have to do what he does as a politician - he's married to a beer heiress. But out of devotion to his country, I believe, he wants to make a positive contribution to help America. I think Mitt Romney felt the same way: He was running because he thought he could be of service to his country.

But when you look at most politicians I realize that they are doing it for ego.

Obama = EGO Biden = EGO Obama's ego demands that he shape the country to fit his image of Utopia.

145 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:08:10pm

Republicans and Democrats suckle on the taxpayers tit.
Both franchises are basically corrupt.

They do what they can to get reelected.

What a disappointment if was for me to see Bush and a republican majority in both houses and yet the government became massively larger, bloated, more liberal, and they did it while preaching conservatism.

they sold out each and every conservative.

I'm not talking about their social agenda. They can stuff that.

I want a government that functions effeciently. That kills my enemy, and otherwise leaves me the Hell alone.


But with the politicians we have, forget it. Not gonna happen

146 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:08:11pm

re: #132 DistantThunder

Will the party let us in...will it seek us out...or will it try to dictate to us. Our collective IQ is greater than that of the party leaders. If John McCain wins, he will be the party leader - and then we've got serious challenges.

Excuse me- I've been working with local republican parties for almost 10 years now. I met with them over the weekend, and I've been speaking with "average" republicans for months now. There are more of us, people who agree with Charles' positions, then you may realize. We are not a force in the party because we're not involved. Those who are involved end up dictating to the rest of us and end up being the voice of the party that the msm and left trash. We don't have to take this. We can get involved and change it from within.

And yes- we can walk right in and don't have to be "allowed" in. Because intelligent, principled republicans don't bother getting involved, I have 2 former BPOUs infested with paulbots and creationists. I can't do this alone- I can't rid the local party of these people by myself. Gee- maybe I should just stay home and let them have their way and wonder why the party is infested with these people?

147 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:08:16pm

Correction:

I think the main concern if Obama wins will be how to save America and Israel (and also Americans and Israelis.) Obama will put us all in danger if he wins.

148 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:08:34pm

re: #71 Charles

A special mobile-only version of LGF perhaps, that is even more highly AJAXified?

Load only part of the thread, and then hit a button in the page to load the next segment. To non-mobile platforms, the thread isn't paginated, and the threads' not really "paginated" on mobile platforms either, just sort of windowed.

I'm imagining something like the spinning reel interface that iCal on the iPhone uses. Flick the thread up and down, and the content is fetched as needed for just the part you're currently looking at.

(I realize this is probably not possible without a dedicated app.)

149 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:08:57pm

re: #139 jcm

Obama's narcissistic epic is on broadcast TV on the West coast.

30 minutes of this hurl fest?

ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!


Don't look into this eyes - and Happy Halloween! Welcome to our collective Nightmare.

150 Promethea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:09:56pm

re: #95 Charles

The question is really: "what is the purpose of blogs?"

I've never believed that my purpose is to shill for one party or another, and that isn't going to change. Patrick Ruffini is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, so of course he thinks the purpose of blogs is to shill for the party.

I think the only way blogs will ever continue to be credible is if they stay above this crap, and criticize all sides as needed. Left-wing blogs stink because they're nothing more than mouthpieces for the Democratic party.

And I'll shut LGF down before I turn it into a right-wing clone of the Daily Kos.

Sorry, not interested in being that.

Charles....I like your blog the way it is. I find your subject choices very interesting, and I learn a lot here. I also read a lot of other blogs with other subject choices. I would hate to see your blog become a political party blog.

151 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:10:04pm

re: #71 Charles

The only way to prevent iPhone Safari from crashing on long comment threads would be to install some kind of pagination system. It's a memory issue. The iPhone has limited memory and it gets unhappy when you exceed the limits.

Every time I raise the pagination issue, though, LGF readers get unhappy.

There's no doubt that paginating comments would make it more difficult to follow conversations, and introduce other kinds of continuity problems too. People would respond to something they saw on the first page, only to find out that it was a non-issue by the third page.

I'm still trying to imagine a pagination system that gets around the continuity issue, but it's a real conundrum.

Have you tried browser-type detection? I think the iPhone's version of Safari will have a different "signature" than the desktop versions...

152 WrathofG-d  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:10:14pm

hmmm. guess not. Ok, well me out!

153 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:10:29pm

re: #120 Charles

If Obama wins, there's going to be a big push to get bloggers to sign onto becoming the Daily Right-Wing Kos. And there's going to be an even bigger push to get the GOP to become even more socially conservative, in the misguided belief that "lack of purity" is the reason for the loss.
And they're going to lose me if that happens, just like the Democrats lost me after 9/11.

If the GOP loses, they will need to move to the center, not farther to the right. That will be the way for them to enlarge their tent enough to win. The right wing of the party will have to face up to that reality.
You stick to your guns and let them come to you.

154 sharp_discernment  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:10:54pm

re: #144 DistantThunder

I think he's got a major bone to pick too, like he wants to get revenge on the country he thinks wronged him in some way. I think he hates America as she stands, hence the desire to create his OWN version of it (as you so succinctly pointed out - his own "Utopia").

155 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:11:58pm

Anti-idiotarian transcends political party and it offers an opportunity for moral and intellectual argument from both sides of the divide.

/It could probably use a better name...

156 J.S.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:12:00pm

re: #120 Charles

An independent stance is always preferable...if you're "in the tank" for any political party, you've sold out...you're "owned."

157 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:12:05pm

re: #120 Charles

If Obama wins, there's going to be a big push to get bloggers to sign onto becoming the Daily Right-Wing Kos. And there's going to be an even bigger push to get the GOP to become even more socially conservative, in the misguided belief that "lack of purity" is the reason for the loss.

And they're going to lose me if that happens, just like the Democrats lost me after 9/11.

I'm one of those "lack of purity" guys, but the offenses were '92 - '96 when the opportunity to beat back the expansion of federal power was wasted. But then I'd be a Paulistinian if he were sane.

socially conservative not socially conservative.... not the fed's purview. should be something democrats and republicans could rally around - everybody go forth and fuck up your own damn state.

158 poopeedoo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:12:30pm

re: #150 Promethea

Charles....I like your blog the way it is. I find your subject choices very interesting, and I learn a lot here. I also read a lot of other blogs with other subject choices. I would hate to see your blog become a political party blog.

I enjoy reading different points of view (as long as those points are intelligent and not too crass). I believe most of us don't want to hang out in an echo chamber. ;)

159 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:13:50pm

re: #153 Spare O'Lake

If the GOP loses, they will need to move to the center, not farther to the right.

I agree -- but unfortunately, I'm almost willing to guarantee that's not how it's going to go. There are powerful forces with lots of money who will do their best to push the GOP further to the right. They're already warming up for the effort.

160 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:14:07pm

Testing

161 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:14:10pm

re: #153 Spare O'Lake

If the GOP loses, they will need to move to the center, not farther to the right. That will be the way for them to enlarge their tent enough to win. The right wing of the party will have to face up to that reality.
You stick to your guns and let them come to you.

I think you may be right. But Charles may be right as well -- there may be a schism coming for the Republican party. One side pushing for a harder line, one side pushing for more centrism.

I think what the GOP needs is:

1) Failure on the part of the Democrats, as you cannot argue with, or defeat, success. And,

2) A big personality to rise up an take the reigns. Look back on the players the Red Team sent onto the field, back during the primaries -- there wasn't a clear winner, even then.

162 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:14:54pm

Whoa, I'm actually in! Hey all y'all what's going on tonight?

163 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:15:24pm

re: #151 lazardo

Have you tried browser-type detection? I think the iPhone's version of Safari will have a different "signature" than the desktop versions...

I'll just have to note that a guy who can code this entire site and the backend for it probably has some familiarity with the concept of a browser sniff...

/

164 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:15:38pm

Went to a lecture tonight and spoke with two big name attorneys, both of whom were Columbia grads. So I asked them if they didn't think it strange that Obama was the only recent presidential candidate who had not released his university records.

I wish I had had a tape recorder on me because when they responded I thought I hadn't heard them properly. Attorney #1 said that he had never even considered this - was it even an issue? He went on to say that there was no need for Obama to release his university records because it was obvious to Ivy Leaguers such as himself that Obama was brilliant otherwise he never would have graduated from Columbia and been head of the Harvard Law Review. Attorney #2 concurred with his colleague. So, what've we got here? Two big shot attorneys and both believe that hearsay is better than evidence and both believe that if an Ivy Leaguer says something is true that it is true.

When I responded that it wasn't so obvious to non-Ivy Leaguers such as myself that Obama had stellar academic credentials they responded that I shouldn't worry because everything was going to be fine come next week and that they were really looking forward to finally having a supreme court that would overturn Scalia's opinion on an individual's right to bear arms (and then I got an earful about militias) and how that opinion was really payback for Roe v. Wade because the right was saying to the left, "If you can find the right to abortion in the constitution, well we can then find the right for individuals to bear arms in the constitution."

And here I thought I was going to get away from Obama brain washing by leaving the house and not watching his infomercial.
*sigh*

165 ciaospirit  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:15:47pm

re: #153 Spare O'Lake

If the GOP loses, they will need to move to the center, not farther to the right. That will be the way for them to enlarge their tent enough to win. The right wing of the party will have to face up to that reality.

How will we be able to tell the difference between the two parties?

166 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:17:07pm

re: #164 Irene NYC

There's only one solution, Irene: baseball.

167 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:17:52pm

I am a fiscal conservative first and foremost - and that is a rare breed to find in office. I'd like to see us be know as the Most honest, most open, cleanest, most accountable party. I know by comparisons to the Democrats we already beat them in those areas - but I would like to see the brand become even more brazenly ethical.

168 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:17:54pm

re: #159 Charles "There are powerful forces with lots of money who will do their best to push the GOP further to the right."
Well you could certainly be right, but where the hell were those poweful forces with lots of money during this campaign?Were they simply pulling another '06 - teaching the Republican Party a lesson?
And what will they do when McCain wins?

169 J.D.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:18:34pm

re: #164 Irene NYC

Did Hillary ever produce her thesis? I don't recall seeing it.

170 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:18:49pm

Here's some software you don't need a computer for!

171 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:18:59pm

Oh, ha, in No. 161, that should be 'reins,' not 'reigns.'

I've got Obama's looming kingship on the brain.

172 IslandLibertarian  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:19:04pm

re: #154 sharp_discernment

It's not about equality. It's about payback.

173 TheMatrix31  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:19:15pm

LOL Bill Clinton's four points.

Hey Bill, that's EXACTLY why we're scared!

174 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:19:41pm

re: #162 realwest

Check #104. I still insist the Founding Fathers weren't so much "blind" as they weren't visionaries of THE FUTURE.

175 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:19:54pm

re: #164 Irene NYC

Wow. Those two idiots sound like they're qualified to be on barry's short list for Appeals court, or SCOTUS

176 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:20:02pm

So what about this TV obamanation tonight? Has it already aired on the east coast? Just seeing it on the west coast. What kind of disgusting, depressing, bilge is this? What nation does this moron live in? Will middle-class voters take it seriously, or be disgusted by it?

If you're not watching, it's like the 50's show, "Queen for a day", in which everyone lined up to tell sob stories, and the worst of the lot got a refrigerator and some luggage. It was finally cancelled in an overwhelming wave of national naseau.

177 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:20:20pm

re: #159 Charles

I agree -- but unfortunately, I'm almost willing to guarantee that's not how it's going to go. There are powerful forces with lots of money who will do their best to push the GOP further to the right. They're already warming up for the effort.

On that one we disagree. The GOP is at the center, the (D)'s left and moving farther.

What we need is a return to classic liberalism, in modern terms a conservative / libertarian model.

Not just right....

Down and to the right.

I agree with you, many of the forces on the right I am uncomfortable with myself. But those are forces to the up and right.

Down and right, that's the direction.

178 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:20:42pm

So does anyone know if this means littleoldlady's gonna be buying celebratory Philly cheesesteaks for us in honor of the Phillies clinching the WS title?

179 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:20:47pm

re: #175 Shug

Wow. Those two idiots sound like they're qualified to be on barry's short list for Appeals court, or SCOTUS

The question is what is he afraid of?

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:21:08pm

re: #167 DistantThunder

There are very easy and simple ways to make "conservatism" a marketable and appealing philosophy again. I'm saying this as an admitted liberal. It can be done but I'm not sure if conservatives are ready yet.

181 J.D.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:21:32pm

re: #176 itellu3times

I only saw the last 2 minutes of Obamafest. It was plenty enough for me.

182 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:21:38pm

re: #159 Charles

There are powerful forces with lots of money who will do their best to push the GOP further to the right. They're already warming up for the effort.

If they had the money ready to confront Obama's massive funds and unfair media advantage in this election, I think they would have spent it to keep a socialist from winning.

183 TheMatrix31  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:22:08pm

re: #178 Fenway_Nation

So does anyone know if this means littleoldlady's gonna be buying celebratory Philly cheesesteaks for us in honor of the Phillies clinching the WS title?

A cheesecake-cup, perhaps?

184 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:22:16pm

re: #182 Adina in Judea

If they had the money ready to confront Obama's massive funds and unfair media advantage in this election, I think they would have spent it to keep a socialist from winning.

They don't have that big of a picture, self interest only.

185 Opilio  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:22:26pm

re: #134 lazardo

re: #104 ciaospirit

The full quote, as posted by an Obamaton.

/meaning, no editing but avoid the author's personal commentary if possible.

I listened to both of them, but I'm still missing his point with regards to the fundamental flaw that continues to this day. Maybe I'm just dense. What's he complaining about?

186 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:22:45pm

re: #176 itellu3times

So what about this TV obamanation tonight? Has it already aired on the east coast? Just seeing it on the west coast. What kind of disgusting, depressing, bilge is this? What nation does this moron live in? Will middle-class voters take it seriously, or be disgusted by it?

If you're not watching, it's like the 50's show, "Queen for a day", in which everyone lined up to tell sob stories, and the worst of the lot got a refrigerator and some luggage. It was finally cancelled in an overwhelming wave of national naseau.

It's what all demagogues engage in: Castro would go on for 5 or 6 hours - Hugo goes on for hours at a time. He's "in your face."

187 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:23:05pm

re: #182 Adina in Judea

If they had the money ready to confront Obama's massive funds and unfair media advantage in this election, I think they would have spent it to keep a socialist from winning.

It's hard when only one party agrees to accepting legitimate donations from only US citizens.

188 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:23:15pm

re: #159 Charles

I agree -- but unfortunately, I'm almost willing to guarantee that's not how it's going to go. There are powerful forces with lots of money who will do their best to push the GOP further to the right. They're already warming up for the effort.

The mainstream of the party will probably want to regain power and defeat the Dems badly enough to resist the fringe's desire to veer to the right. At least they always have in the past.

189 Florida Lady  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:23:19pm

re: #169 J.D.

Did Hillary ever produce her thesis? I don't recall seeing it.

Actually, her senior thesis at Wellesley was about Saul Alinsky.

190 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:24:05pm

re: #168 realwest

I wouldn't put it past them.

191 J.D.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:24:25pm

Are there hundreds of thousands on here or something? I'm growin' old...

192 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:24:37pm

re: #184 jcm

re: #182 Adina in Judea

If they had the money ready to confront Obama's massive funds and unfair media advantage in this election, I think they would have spent it to keep a socialist from winning.

They don't have that big of a picture, self interest only.

Socialism isn't just a big picture. It will affect every single one of us.

Who are these mysterious people who have all this money that could have confronted Obama's massive funding but are waiting to use the money against fellow Republicans to make us more conservative instead?

Do they have names?

193 x-wing  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:25:34pm

re: #178 Fenway_Nation

So does anyone know if this means littleoldlady's gonna be buying celebratory Philly cheesesteaks for us in honor of the Phillies clinching the WS title?

If there's anything left of Philly till morning.

///

194 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:25:43pm

re: #188 Spare O'Lake

The mainstream of the party will probably want to regain power and defeat the Dems badly enough to resist the fringe's desire to veer to the right. At least they always have in the past.

When the party becomes too centrist the far right sits home and pouts.

195 seekeroftruth  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:25:56pm

Charles, this blog and lots of other blogs out there did not start because of politics and I don't see that changing in the future. You have brought issues that are important to you to the forefront, and they are usually issues the MSM ignores, covers up, or out right lies about. You've also tapped into topics and issues that are important to a lot of people, or all of us would not spend way too much time here. : - )
As the MSM falls off the cliff in an effort to answer to the DNC, instead of their customers, they continue leave a big role for the bloggers as the fact checkers, investigators, and even the news reporters. I think you should continue to be true to yourself and cover what you want. It's obviously a very successful choice.

196 J.D.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:26:27pm

re: #189 Florida Lady

Actually, her senior thesis at Wellesley was about Saul Alinsky.

I'm thinking there's another...

197 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:26:58pm

re: #186 DistantThunder

It's what all demagogues engage in: Castro would go on for 5 or 6 hours - Hugo goes on for hours at a time. He's "in your face."

Don't Americans know better?

Rove was on Hannity today, saying exactly the wrong people would even watch this thing tonight, mostly moonbats and politically interested conservatives, neither of whom would change their opinions. The "undecided" won't turn it on. Dang. I wish everyone would see this crap and act accordingly.

198 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:27:07pm

re: #159 Charles

I agree -- but unfortunately, I'm almost willing to guarantee that's not how it's going to go. There are powerful forces with lots of money who will do their best to push the GOP further to the right. They're already warming up for the effort.

Cannot agree, I think anyway. How much father left can the Dems go?
I'd think the GOP needs a very hard right turn, but I am talking about staying within its constitutional authority. We're at a point where we're arguing over what form of federal subsidy we're going to give for health care - direct transfers or tax credits. Direct transfers shouldn't be on the table. McCain should be arguing for the left against a Ron Paul type.
But then maybe you are talking further to the right socially....again, shouldn't even be discussed at the federal level. not their damn business.

199 Archimedes  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:27:23pm

A point about tax cuts "for the wealthy" versus the middle class.

When you cut taxes for companies (the wealthy), they are much more able to create new products, and thus create new jobs. The new jobs help the "middle class" much more than any tax cut would. Iows, tax cuts on the rich help everyone, especially the middle class. I mean, if you're unemployed what is the point of tax cuts for you?

This point completely crushes Obama's argument.

Also, when men are freer, they are much more able to move out of poverty, or out of the middle class and to higher and higher income levels. Freedom brings prosperity because it unleashes the brain power of the citizenry, each motivated by his own ideas and dreams, whether it be music, or a cure for cancer.

Now, I would like to say that the biggest point over and above that one is that taxation is wrong. A man has the right to his money because he has earned it. This is the vital point, the practical points logically follow from this, because when a man is secure in his life and property he is much better able to survive. This is why rights exist in the first place.

200 Fenway_Nation  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:27:23pm

re: #193 x-wing

I'm surprised there's anything left of Boston after 2004 and last year. Then again, everyone there had some practise with the Patriots....

201 J.D.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:27:47pm

OK, so now "new comments" doesn't work. Whassup w/that?

202 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:28:03pm

re: #153 Spare O'Lake

If the GOP loses, they will need to move to the center, not farther to the right. That will be the way for them to enlarge their tent enough to win. The right wing of the party will have to face up to that reality.
You stick to your guns and let them come to you.

Yep. Where the hell else are they going to go? Even if McCain wins, there's a swing of the ideological pendulum going on and the GOP will have to catch that swing or wander in the wilderness.

203 J.S.  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:28:11pm

re: #165 ciaospirit

I suspect that if The Zero ever enacts 1/2 of what he's so far proposed, there will be no problem creating a party dedicated to "the center"....(another scenario could be that the Democrats turn sharply Leftist; the Republicans turn hard right (as in a Pat Buchanan -- Paleo-conservative way); then leaving it open to a Third party, of the Center....or The Independents' Party...which would denounce both right and left extremes...)

204 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:28:25pm

re: #71 Charles

The only way to prevent iPhone Safari from crashing on long comment threads would be to install some kind of pagination system. It's a memory issue. The iPhone has limited memory and it gets unhappy when you exceed the limits.

Every time I raise the pagination issue, though, LGF readers get unhappy.

There's no doubt that paginating comments would make it more difficult to follow conversations, and introduce other kinds of continuity problems too. People would respond to something they saw on the first page, only to find out that it was a non-issue by the third page.

I'm still trying to imagine a pagination system that gets around the continuity issue, but it's a real conundrum.

Maybe you could add a number of comments per page feature; 50, 100, 200, 500, ALL

205 wright1  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:29:07pm

I watched Hannity & Colmes tonight and Greta because I cannot bear to watch the other stations. I know there are criticizers of Sean Hannity but if we win this election he deserves credit. While some of us find him didactic etc, etc. he is relentless in his pursuit for media fairness. Nobody like him has been as adamant. He is on in NYC on radio and his radio show is certainly more partisan than H & C, but he is fighting the good fight night after night and let me tell you something, Obama hates him. That should tell you something. But the other compliment I give him is this: he believes in what he is saying. He actually calls BHO a liar. That is so, so refreshing. People who think it is all about him have it wrong. I think he is a patriot.

As for Greta, Bill Salmon and Juan Williams were on and while in the past I have liked Salmon, tonight he was absolutely feckless. He sounded like an ivory tower ideologue. Complimenting this BHO infomercial - please. And he is missing the fact how important the Khalidi tape is. Greta also is too soft. If Fox is as rabid as they are alleged to be they should be excoriating every frigging media outlet for bias. But they really have been soft on the subject. This LA Times story is so over the top it is beyond absurd...

For me, Rush, Hannity and Levin are the only ones making any sense. I know I am partisan but even a partisan can see corruption and not call it politics as usual. By the way, there is a reason why Hannity is didactic - because the media refuses to do their job.

206 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:29:13pm

re: #199 Archimedes

A point about tax cuts "for the wealthy" versus the middle class.

When you cut taxes for companies (the wealthy), they are much more able to create new products, and thus create new jobs. The new jobs help the "middle class" much more than any tax cut would. Iows, tax cuts on the rich help everyone, especially the middle class. I mean, if you're unemployed what is the point of tax cuts for you?

Sorry, I don't believe a word of that.

There is a much simpler reason why tax cuts for the rich are a good idea - they are the only ones paying much tax anymore. There's simply nowhere else to cut, and in general, cutting is still a good idea.

207 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:29:28pm

re: #186 DistantThunder

It's what all demagogues engage in: Castro would go on for 5 or 6 hours - Hugo goes on for hours at a time. He's "in your face."

I've seen excerpts from some of Obama's rallies. They aren't rallies where he says something inspiring and everyone cheers.

He's up there talking on and on and on and on while the people behind him on the stage hold their little signs and frozen smiles as if they are sitting in Freshman orientation and being told that one out of three of them will not be at the school a year from now.

Obama likes to hear himself speak and he subjects his audiences to it.

208 TheWasteLand  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:31:14pm

re: #153 Spare O'Lake

If the GOP loses, they will need to move to the center, not farther to the right. That will be the way for them to enlarge their tent enough to win. The right wing of the party will have to face up to that reality.
You stick to your guns and let them come to you.

With respect, when in modern history has the GOP had any electoral success moving to the center? There is a reason the GOP once had a party civil war about "a choice not an echo". It is something conservatives would do well to remember when taking electoral advice.

/ Just my opinion

209 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:31:25pm

re: #195 seekeroftruth

Charles, this blog and lots of other blogs out there did not start because of politics and I don't see that changing in the future. You have brought issues that are important to you to the forefront, and they are usually issues the MSM ignores, covers up, or out right lies about. You've also tapped into topics and issues that are important to a lot of people, or all of us would not spend way too much time here. : - )
As the MSM falls off the cliff in an effort to answer to the DNC, instead of their customers, they continue leave a big role for the bloggers as the fact checkers, investigators, and even the news reporters. I think you should continue to be true to yourself and cover what you want. It's obviously a very successful choice.

I agree. Integrity matters.

210 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:32:39pm

Some interesting news at Wizbang about Florida early voting:

Exit polls show more democrats have voted early, yet McCain is up 49-45 over Obama

211 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:32:42pm

re: #207 Adina in Judea


Obama likes to hear himself speak and he subjects his audiences to it.

Whaaat? Have you seen these people praising him like invented the cheeseburger?

He's not subjecting them to anything. They're doing that themselves.

212 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:32:59pm

I think the party needs to remain fiscally conservative, socially- we need to be moderates.

213 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:33:53pm

re: #210 Intrepid

Some interesting news at Wizbang about Florida early voting:

Exit polls show more democrats have voted early, yet McCain is up 49-45 over Obama

GO, PUMAs, GO!

214 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:34:23pm

re: #164 Irene NYC
Hi {Irene } - as the grad of an Ivy League Law school, let me tell you that you were talking to two of Obama's "elitites"; only a true fool would think that there was nothing unusual about Obama being editor-in-Chief of the Harvard Law Review and NEVER having written an article himself or even having edited (with approporiately footnoted "notes") another Scholars's submission to the Law Review.
When I went to my Ivy League law school I was 6 days out of Vietnam and not quite - how to put this - uh, re-socialized to the civilised world - and those two are typical of the types I would run into in the Student Lounge who talked openly about how "socially upwardly mobile" (and use that exact phrase) they were. I'm afraid Elitism isn't created at the Ivies, although they do reinforce it, but it's sort of part and parcel of the folks who go there (I only went cause I got an "early out" from the Army of almost 90 days to attend law school and the one I went to offered me scholarship, and full loan guaranties and was the first law school I applied to and accepted me first, as well).

215 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:34:30pm

Off-topic for a bit, gotta love Grand Theft Auto's parody talk radio, equal-opportunity skewerings for all!

Left: "The only thing liberals run in this country is the TV networks!"

Right: Rush Limbaugh much?

216 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:35:07pm

re: #208 TheWasteLand

With respect, when in modern history has the GOP had any electoral success moving to the center? There is a reason the GOP once had a party civil war about "a choice not an echo". It is something conservatives would do well to remember when taking electoral advice.

/ Just my opinion

I agree. I'd rather take my lumps pushing conservatism and booting out the RINO's, than look to rebound by widening the goalposts by watering down the meaning of it.

217 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:36:06pm

The social stuff crosses over into the fiscal stuff - like abortion, (who funds it) like vouchers, like immigration. What else....

218 CapeCoddah  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:36:44pm

Take a look at what Governor Deval Patrick just signed into law in Massachusetts, for this election only..
[Link: www.capecodonline.com...]

219 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:36:54pm

re: #165 ciaospirit

How will we be able to tell the difference between the two parties?

The differences are and will continue to be defined by the right and left wings of the respective parties. The centre of the political spectrum is still a very big place.

220 de La Valette  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:36:59pm

re: #43 karmic_inquisitor

I'm not worried about indivduals blackmailing Obama, but rogue States and other organizations.

Along with the Indonesians, Pakistanis, Cubans, Kenyans, Venezuelans, Syrians, Iraqis, the Chicago Outfit, Soros, FARC, WUO, and any other group with which he has had interactions that he has been less then forthcoming about.

Any of these guys may have damning evidence of something he said or did in his enigmatic past that could ruin his Presidency if released.

221 Karridine  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:37:36pm

re: #199 Archimedes

Now, I would like to say that the biggest point over and above that one is that taxation is wrong. A man has the right to his money because he has earned it. This is the vital point, the practical points logically follow from this, because when a man is secure in his life and property he is much better able to survive. This is why rights exist in the first place.

I see you've spotted 'the fundamental flaw' in the Constitution, Archimedes!

Government can use every individual's money MUCH BETTER than the citizen can. Obama will have government control ALL your our earnings, so EVERYONE BENEFITS by redistributing YOUR wealth to US, THEM, they...

222 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:37:46pm

Drudge: Huffington Post writer stabs her lover 222 times with a phillips screwdriver.

223 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:38:09pm

re: #210 Intrepid

Some interesting news at Wizbang about Florida early voting:

Exit polls show more democrats have voted early, yet McCain is up 49-45 over Obama


The're illiterate. Thought they were voting for The One but picked McCain since he's number One on the ballot

Whatever it takes

224 HelloDare  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:38:24pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

GO, PUMAs, GO!

As Austin Powers would say, "MEOW."

225 wright1  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:38:45pm

re: #216 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I agree. I'd rather take my lumps pushing conservatism and booting out the RINO's, than look to rebound by widening the goalposts by watering down the meaning of it.

As to both comments, Republicans win elections being true to core conservative principles such as what Reagan stood for and even GWB in the beginning before he went off half-cocked behaving like a democrat. Most Americans are conservative. But the heck with that, it is the correct philosophical approach to life and government in my humble opinion.

226 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:38:47pm

re: #215 lazardo

GTA iv is out for PC soon. I'm very much looking forward to it.
/Lazlo rules!

227 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:39:06pm

re: #222 maddogg

Drudge: Huffington Post writer stabs her lover 222 times with a phillips screwdriver.

Mental illness defense. "I am a liberal therefore, by my very nature I am unstable, and irrational."

228 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:39:51pm

re: #218 CapeCoddah

Take a look at what Governor Deval Patrick just signed into law in Massachusetts, for this election only..
[Link: www.capecodonline.com...]

McCain, nor anyone else with an "R" after their name, has any chance in MA these days for national offices.

229 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:40:21pm

If the GOP doesn't move to the center socially, they're going to be out of office for a long long time. It's a violation of the core principles of conservatism to attempt to dictate to other people how they should live.

230 CapeCoddah  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:40:45pm

re: #222 maddogg

Drudge: Huffington Post writer stabs her lover 222 times with a phillips screwdriver.

But...they are such nice people over there, who among them would harbor such rage? I'm shocked!

231 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:40:49pm

re: #227 DistantThunder

Mental illness defense. "I am a liberal therefore, by my very nature I am unstable, and irrational."

She shot herself.

So I predict an acquittal

232 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:41:02pm

Charles: Any way to add a timer to the client end of the 'new comments' button? When the endless spin occurs it would be nice to have a graceful exit.

233 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:41:17pm

re: #227 DistantThunder

Mental illness defense. "I am a liberal therefore, by my very nature I am unstable, and irrational."

And don't forget, she didn't contribute to gun violence:)

234 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:41:27pm

re: #222 maddogg

Drudge: Huffington Post writer stabs her lover 222 times with a phillips screwdriver.

I'm so naive. It took me a second or two, looking at their photos, to say, "Hey... wait a minute..."

235 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:41:37pm

re: #210 Intrepid

Some interesting news at Wizbang about Florida early voting:

Exit polls show more democrats have voted early, yet McCain is up 49-45 over Obama

Palm Beach county democrats will probably elect Pat Buchanan President again.
/

236 sharp_discernment  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:41:50pm

re: #172 IslandLibertarian

It's not about equality. It's about payback.

Right, I mean wrong, I mean RIGHT! :)

ps. I don't know if this comment will post but I'm getting dizzy watching the thingy spin round and round. I'm ready for hypnosis. :|

237 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:41:55pm

LGF is greatest for taking stands on issues without being confined within a particular political party, which I think is wonderful.

Most often the interests of Republicans coincide, but the stands on issues come first (which is indeed, as someone else pointed out, a matter of LGF's integrity.)

238 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:42:03pm

re: #222 maddogg

Drudge: Huffington Post writer stabs her lover 222 times with a phillips screwdriver.

Must have been in a cross mood.

239 CheDub  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:42:05pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

Is there anything an iphone can't do?

It doesn't play Adobe Flash. Well...it could...if Apple would approve the Adobe app to do so.

240 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:43:45pm

222 times with a phillips screwdriver, now thats love.

242 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:44:08pm

re: #222 maddogg

Drudge: Huffington Post writer stabs her lover 222 times with a phillips screwdriver.

Lesbian lover, not that there's anything wrong with that.

243 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:44:24pm

re: #217 DistantThunder

The social stuff crosses over into the fiscal stuff - like abortion, (who funds it) like vouchers, like immigration. What else....

I guess I'm talking about things like ID. Things like Joe Gibbs turning the convention into a religious revival. It's harmful to the party when the head of a BPOU turns up at a political meeting asking people if they've been introduced to Jesus. (Yes- this happened.) Things like this make us easy targets for the left and their shills in the msm, and turn people off, even if they really have more conservative leanings then they realize because they don't look at us as viable when we've allowed ourselves to be demonized by the other side.

244 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:44:33pm

I know I'm not popular among these lizards these days. Just wait until after the election: those who hate me now will despise me later. Believe it or not, I'm holding back.
Peace, G'nite, namaste

245 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:03pm

re: #229 Charles

If the GOP doesn't move to the center socially, they're going to be out of office for a long long time. It's a violation of the core principles of conservatism to attempt to dictate to other people how they should live.

Name an attempt conservatives do on how one should live?

How does the left differ. The left tells you what light bulb, what size toilet, what gas mileage your car should get. It wants to allow thuggery to be the norm for union elections.

246 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:04pm

I will digress.

I think the Republican party has gone too far left, and has forgotten the base that is actually loyal to them.

My preference would be to go back to Reagan.

Republicans once stood for conservatism. They have decided to move away from some of the very core principles which made this country great.

Some don't like this, my aim is not confrontation. If you lean left, there are plenty of Democrats who have not gone totally socialist, and perhaps might be the future of that party.

I just don't buy the whole notion of the Republican party becoming the Democrat party in order to be successful.

247 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:13pm

The route to fiscal conservatism is simple -

Break up congress.

What I mean is to have Representatives and Senators telecommute for most of the 2 year session, with periodic "conclaves" held in different cities.

The problem with Washington is Washington - the place feels powerful and it is very expensive and people get in their pecking orders quickly and try to climb, spending your money to do it.

Decentralize the congress and the way to climb is through good old populism with folks in the district/state and dealing. And it would cost a lot less to run congress.

248 Opilio  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:23pm

re: #227 DistantThunder

Mental illness defense. "I am a liberal therefore, by my very nature I am unstable, and irrational."

No defense necessary. The doer shot herself.

249 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:45pm

re: #174 lazardo When I let a community organizer lecture ME about the Constitution and the Founding Fathers, I hope one of you will have the decency to shoot me and put me out of my obvious dementia.
Obama's ignorance of the US Constituion and of the Founding Fathers would, PERHAPS, be understandable if he didn't pretend to be a constitutional scholar - Our Founding Fathers KNEW that times and people would change, that's why the made it possible for the PEOPLE to amend the Constitution but so valued it's basic principles, that they deliberately made it HARD to amend the Constitution.
Obama's no more a constitutional scholar than I'm a quarterback in the NFL.

250 wright1  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:52pm

Conservatism does not tell people how to live, rather it empowers the individual to achieve all that they are capable of by getting gov't out of their way. Lower taxes, smaller gov't, strong military defense and defense of the constitution as an original static document. No judicial oligarchy. Traditional Family values over secular-progressivism. That means a culture of life. The expansion of capitalism vs. Socialist-progressive policies. These are values of the right not the center.

251 Age Of Freedom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:45:57pm

I have an aversion to Google Earth, even though it's a fantastic product. The map of Israel is entirely spammed by Palestinian zealots (maybe just a couple of guys at best) and converted into that "lost Palestine" they love to mass murder for, based on sources from parallel universes. Google only needs to remove the name "Israel" now that they've managed to secure a status quo of ignoring American memorial and 9/11 days.

Unless they enforce the user based data efficiently, which they don't, I will passionately skip Google Earth.

252 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:46:57pm

Dumb question : Why count 222 holes in somebody who's been murdered?

I mean after 80 or 90, wouldn't you just say " Ok, this person was killed by a crazy person with some rage issues. No need to count every single hole. They're dead whether I count every hole or not"

253 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:47:05pm

re: #250 wright1

Conservatism does not tell people how to live, rather it empowers the individual to achieve all that they are capable of by getting gov't out of their way.

Y'know, back in the day, that was actually called liberalism.

Wonder what happened.

254 Cognito  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:48:24pm

re: #252 Shug

Dumb question : Why count 222 holes in somebody who's been murdered?

I mean after 80 or 90, wouldn't you just say " Ok, this person was killed by a crazy person with some rage issues. No need to count every single hole. They're dead whether I count every hole or not"

It's the medical examiner's job to, well... examine. Maybe someone made all those stab marks to hide some other feature on, or damage to, the victim's body. And so forth.

255 CapeCoddah  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:48:30pm

re: #252 Shug

Dumb question : Why count 222 holes in somebody who's been murdered?

I mean after 80 or 90, wouldn't you just say " Ok, this person was killed by a crazy person with some rage issues. No need to count every single hole. They're dead whether I count every hole or not"

Overtime.

256 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:48:39pm

re: #217 DistantThunder

The social stuff crosses over into the fiscal stuff - like abortion, (who funds it) like vouchers, like immigration. What else....

It shouldn't. They should be arguing about foreign policy, rail width standards, the price of postage, and whether or not Dale Earnhardt is going to be on the 3 dollar bill. We shouldn't be arguing about the fed funding abortion unless you are talking about DC.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

257 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:49:02pm

re: #223 Shug

The're illiterate. Thought they were voting for The One but picked McCain since he's number One on the ballot

Whatever it takes

Most states' ballots are arranged alphabetically by last name, which (depending on your state) would put Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr first.

258 wright1  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:49:10pm

re: #253 itellu3times

Y'know, back in the day, that was actually called liberalism.

Wonder what happened.

Liberalism has always been about subjugating the individual to be a ward of the State in some shape or manner. It is an ideology of dependency - not self-reliance.

259 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:50:02pm

re: #229 Charles

Charles, can I ask a serious question?

In what way is the Republican party dictating how people should live?

Please don't take my question as confrontation, because I am not trying to be. But this could apply to many different aspects of our society, and some arguments on the surface actually have many layers beyond in my opinion.

260 Opilio  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:50:46pm

re: #252 Shug

Dumb question : Why count 222 holes in somebody who's been murdered?

I mean after 80 or 90, wouldn't you just say " Ok, this person was killed by a crazy person with some rage issues. No need to count every single hole. They're dead whether I count every hole or not"

And though the holes were rather small, They had to count them all; Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

261 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:52:04pm

re: #220 de La Valette

Any of these guys may have damning evidence of something he said or did in his enigmatic past that could ruin his Presidency if released.

What I wonder is how long it will take for the first ones to turn.

They will all want their spoils, but there is only so much the guy can do before he gets a stink on him that Blue Dog Democrats won't want to touch.

That said, he will have the entire Executive Branch at his disposal with plenty of acolytes at all levels willing to do deeds for the POTUS and advance his interests by playing unfairly, so some of these would be blackmailers may find pulling the trigger hazardous.

I am sure there is a manual in Chicago somewhere that tells a politician how to deal with such situations.

262 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:52:19pm

re: #245 Dasher

Name an attempt conservatives do on how one should live?

If you haven't noticed that there are factions on the right that want to dictate lifestyles and ideologies, I won't be able to convince you.

263 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:52:33pm

re: #254 Cognito

It's the medical examiner's job to, well... examine. Maybe someone made all those stab marks to hide some other feature on, or damage to, the victim's body. And so forth.


If the body would have been found in Ft Marcy park, clutching a screwdriver, would it have been labeled a suicide ?

264 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:52:47pm

re: #229 Charles

If the GOP doesn't move to the center socially, they're going to be out of office for a long long time. It's a violation of the core principles of conservatism to attempt to dictate to other people how they should live.

Yet abortion matters. Beyond the morality, the way it was legalized by Supreme Court fiat matters.

265 a marine mom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:53:04pm

I thought this was an iPhone thread.

I have had my iPhone since Chanukah 2007. It goes well with all of my outfits and it's just down right cute.

266 Opilio  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:53:04pm

re: #257 gmsc

Most states' ballots are arranged alphabetically by last name, which (depending on your state) would put Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr first.

Here in McCain's adopted home state of AZ, the ballot order is:

Obama
McCain
Barr
McKinney
Nader

267 Irene NYC  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:53:22pm

re: #258 wright1

Liberalism has always been about subjugating the individual to be a ward of the State in some shape or manner. It is an ideology of dependency - not self-reliance.

That's the direct opposite of classical liberalism. One of the smartest things the left did was preempt our language and terms. And we were too nice to stop them. Talk about stupid.

268 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:53:45pm

Many issues that will have to be addressed in reinventing conservatism, including role of private versus public sector in various spheres of activity, when to regulate or not regulate, what America's role in the world ought to be, and so on.

269 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:53:56pm

re: #257 gmsc

Most states' ballots are arranged alphabetically by last name, which (depending on your state) would put Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr first.

On the screen when I voted last week, Obama/Biden was first, McCain/Palin was second, and I didn't notice the order after that.

Wonder why they had Obama first?

270 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:54:23pm

re: #247 karmic_inquisitor

The route to fiscal conservatism is simple -

Break up congress.

What I mean is to have Representatives and Senators telecommute for most of the 2 year session, with periodic "conclaves" held in different cities.

The problem with Washington is Washington - the place feels powerful and it is very expensive and people get in their pecking orders quickly and try to climb, spending your money to do it.

Decentralize the congress and the way to climb is through good old populism with folks in the district/state and dealing. And it would cost a lot less to run congress.

I like that idea - keeping them separated and more in touch with the people - instead of forming these unholy alliances.

271 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:54:48pm

re: #262 Charles

If you haven't noticed that there are factions on the right that want to dictate lifestyles and ideologies, I won't be able to convince you.

Try this then. Which tries to regulation your life more the right or the left. That should be an easy one.

272 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:54:52pm

re: #266 Opilio

Here in McCain's adopted home state of AZ, the ballot order is:

Obama
McCain
Barr
McKinney
Nader

What's the order they're using? I can see major parties first, then third-parties, but beyond that, I can figure out how that order was determined.

273 x-wing  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:54:53pm

re: #257 gmsc

Most states' ballots are arranged alphabetically by last name, which (depending on your state) would put Chuck Baldwin or Bob Barr first.

Florida does it like Pa., whatever party the Gov. is,is the party at the top. Incumbent or not.

274 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:54:54pm

re: #249 realwest

I'm sure they did, but I don't know if they foresaw the interpretations of the Constitution also changing with the times, sometimes limiting or expanding freedom as it did.

275 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:55:01pm

re: #266 Opilio

Here in McCain's adopted home state of AZ, the ballot order is:

Obama
McCain
Barr
McKinney
Nader


here in n Michigan McCain is on top.

(at least until they count the votes)

276 nigella  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:55:12pm

Charles, but the common thought now ,unfortunately, is that Obama is going to win. Is Obama in the center socially?Obama wants to dictate every thing about how we should live. I always say if you're in the middle of the road you're going to get hit.

277 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:55:30pm

I am Republican, I live in San Francisco. So, if I really gave a darn about how other people live, it would stand to reason that I would live somewhere else. I have always been a live and let live type. I have no idea where this perception that Republicans are trying to force others in to some sort of mind set comes from, but I think it is pure BS. To my powers of observation it was always the fucking Democrats that are out to create the Mommy-state. They are the ones telling to wear your motorcycle helmet, buckle your seat belt, stop smoking, wear your condoms, ban the trans fats, ban guns, ban and tax, ban and tax, tax and ban.

For the love of Pete, that is all the Democrats do!

Give me a major league break here.

278 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:55:30pm

Oops ' Regulate '

279 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:55:38pm

re: #252 Shug

Dumb question : Why count 222 holes in somebody who's been murdered?

I mean after 80 or 90, wouldn't you just say " Ok, this person was killed by a crazy person with some rage issues. No need to count every single hole. They're dead whether I count every hole or not"

That's easy...because it feels good to keep doing it..and she was on a roll.

If it feels good ...do it.

280 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:55:45pm

Personally, as far as the House and Senate are concerned, I would just as soon clean house and toss ALL the bums out, start over with a clean slate. Put in term limits to keep moss from growing on their asses and brains.

281 RememberSekhmet?  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:56:26pm

I've been waiting to get an iPod Touch---a lot of the same cool stuff and people can't cal you on it. Besides, I name my iPods, and have always wanted one named "I Touch Myself."

282 Charles  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:58:18pm

re: #276 nigella

Charles, but the common thought now ,unfortunately, is that Obama is going to win. Is Obama in the center socially?Obama wants to dictate every thing about how we should live. I always say if you're in the middle of the road you're going to get hit.

I'm not defending Obama or the Democrats. I'm saying that both sides are way too invested in forcing their social issues down people's throats.

283 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:58:31pm

re: #277 rawmuse

I am Republican, I live in San Francisco. So, if I really gave a darn about how other people live, it would stand to reason that I would live somewhere else. I have always been a live and let live type. I have no idea where this perception that Republicans are trying to force others in to some sort of mind set comes from, but I think it is pure BS. To my powers of observation it was always the fucking Democrats that are out to create the Mommy-state. They are the ones telling to wear your motorcycle helmet, buckle your seat belt, stop smoking, wear your condoms, ban the trans fats, ban guns, ban and tax, ban and tax, tax and ban.

For the love of Pete, that is all the Democrats do!

Give me a major league break here.

Whatever happened to that SF garbage idea that was getting so much press a while back? I understand they wanted to implement a law requiring you to sort your garbage in a particular way, and if you didn't, you could be fined, with the strongest punishment being cessation of garbage pick-up (not a smart idea in a city where almost everyone lives on a hill).

284 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:58:40pm

re: #262 Charles

If you haven't noticed that there are factions on the right that want to dictate lifestyles and ideologies, I won't be able to convince you.

That's very true, and I agree with on that point. The authoritarians on the conservative pollute conservatism.

285 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:59:10pm

re: #280 maddogg

Personally, as far as the House and Senate are concerned, I would just as soon clean house and toss ALL the bums out, start over with a clean slate. Put in term limits to keep moss from growing on their asses and brains.

I think that could be very dangerous given your unusual form of democracy in the US, with its division of executive and legislative branches. Experienced members of Congress are the glue and the continuity that keeps your system on target, IMHO.

286 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:59:10pm

re: #229 Charles

If the GOP doesn't move to the center socially, they're going to be out of office for a long long time. It's a violation of the core principles of conservatism to attempt to dictate to other people how they should live.

Correct. but the Dems need to move way way to the right and stop dictating how we live as well. Roe v Wade is just the biggest example of them inflicting their principles in arena where they have no business - federally.
They need to stay out of my education, health care, car, guns, booze, smokes, trans-fat, bong, implants, wages, profits, losses, investments, retirement, mortgage, ....*breathe*...... my lawn, my building codes, my land use, yadda yadda yadda

287 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:59:18pm

re: #283 gmsc

Whatever happened to that SF garbage idea that was getting so much press a while back? I understand they wanted to implement a law requiring you to sort your garbage in a particular way, and if you didn't, you could be fined, with the strongest punishment being cessation of garbage pick-up (not a smart idea in a city where almost everyone lives on a hill).


but they keep the human garbage

288 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:59:32pm

re: #280 maddogg

Personally, as far as the House and Senate are concerned, I would just as soon clean house and toss ALL the bums out, start over with a clean slate. Put in term limits to keep moss from growing on their asses and brains.

Way back in 1993-1994 when Republicans were trying to gain control of the house, I was at a meeting where term limits were being discussed. I made a comment that as soon as the Republicans gain the majority they would be against term limits. I was severely chastised, but, in the end that is what happened except for a very few who self limited there terms.

289 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:59:54pm

re: #281 RememberSekhmet?

I've been waiting to get an iPod Touch---a lot of the same cool stuff and people can't cal you on it. Besides, I name my iPods, and have always wanted one named "I Touch Myself."

Why would you ever name something "I Touch Myself"?
;)

290 lazardo  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 8:59:57pm

Lunch time...then heading off to college. BBL.

291 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:00:17pm

Youtube of Obama on "National Civilian Security Force".

Seems he has brought this one up more than once.

292 M. Bensson-Levi  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:01:17pm

re: #252 Shug

They don't actually count the holes, per se. They count the straws

293 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:01:25pm

re: #283 gmsc

Yeah, well they lost that one. Once you put your garbage out on the street, you have no control over what the other sacred cows (aka homeless) do with it.
I personally sued them over that nonsense. That is the problem, until they get a letter from an attorney, it never gets on the radar screen.

And BTW, I have no problem with CONSERVATION. I recycle, reuse, buy thoughtfully. Why? Because I am CHEAP!

And landfills aren't.

294 Promethea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:01:26pm

re: #237 Adina in Judea

LGF is greatest for taking stands on issues without being confined within a particular political party, which I think is wonderful.

Most often the interests of Republicans coincide, but the stands on issues come first (which is indeed, as someone else pointed out, a matter of LGF's integrity.)

Plus, I don't always know what I should think about certain issues, and reading all the comments gives me lots of ideas....which, unfortunately, I don't get in my real life, since I am surrounded by moonbats who don't have any ideas, just ritualistic mantras. :-(

295 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:01:52pm

We need to be a party of individual rights, fiscal responsibility and transparency on the part of the government.

296 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:02:17pm

re: #285 Moe Katz

I think that could be very dangerous given your unusual form of democracy in the US, with its division of executive and legislative branches. Experienced members of Congress are the glue and the continuity that keeps your system on target, IMHO.

The constitution is the glue that holds the system on target, or should be. Those SOBs get to Washington and start going to parties and feeling like "important people" and forget all about the rubes who sent them there and why they were sent there. Term limits would give them focus.

297 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:02:26pm

re: #277 rawmuse

I am Republican, I live in San Francisco. So, if I really gave a darn about how other people live, it would stand to reason that I would live somewhere else. I have always been a live and let live type. I have no idea where this perception that Republicans are trying to force others in to some sort of mind set comes from, but I think it is pure BS. To my powers of observation it was always the fucking Democrats that are out to create the Mommy-state. They are the ones telling to wear your motorcycle helmet, buckle your seat belt, stop smoking, wear your condoms, ban the trans fats, ban guns, ban and tax, ban and tax, tax and ban.

For the love of Pete, that is all the Democrats do!

Give me a major league break here.

I think this gay marriage ammendment might have something to do with this perception, but it is really a defensive moves that preserves free association, instead of doctors being forced to inseminate lesbians against their principles, or adoption agencies forced to adopt to same sex couples against their beliefs and better judgment.

You'll notice that there are no movements to ban S&M or things that people do in the privacy of their own homes by the right - but once it is injected into the public sphere, like the Up Your Alley street fair - then I think it becomes legitimate issue.

298 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:02:47pm

re: #208 TheWasteLand

With respect, when in modern history has the GOP had any electoral success moving to the center? There is a reason the GOP once had a party civil war about "a choice not an echo". It is something conservatives would do well to remember when taking electoral advice.
/ Just my opinion

I am not an expert in modern history.
But hasn't the history of American politics been the struggle by each of the mainstream parties to occupy enough of the centre-right and centre-left, respectively, to win - while still keeping their respective identities?

299 CheDub  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:02:50pm

re: #271 Dasher

Try this then. Which tries to regulation your life more the right or the left. That should be an easy one.


Well you're both right. There are factions on the right that want to dictate the lives of others, but for the most part they're ignored. And admittedly, to a certain degree I don't mind the Christian who wants to keep "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance as opposed to the leftist who wants to control my thoughts through PC speak.

300 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:03:27pm

re: #258 wright1

Liberalism has always been about subjugating the individual to be a ward of the State in some shape or manner. It is an ideology of dependency - not self-reliance.

The founding fathers were "liberal" in that they wanted everyone left alone, following the model of the 13 (different) colonies. Somewhere in the early nineteenth century, the usage started to change.

Before that time, coercive regimes were NOT called liberal!

301 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:03:31pm

re: #282 Charles

I'm not defending Obama or the Democrats. I'm saying that both sides are way too invested in forcing their social issues down people's throats.

We will see how the aftermath goes, but I may just start calling myself a Libertarian after this election. I have never agreed with a party completely, and the Ls are nuts on some things, but the heart is in the right place in my book. I used to wonder why someone would go Libertarian when there is a perfectly good Republican Party.

302 Syrah  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:04:59pm

re: #295 Sharmuta

We need to be a party of individual rights, fiscal responsibility and transparency on the part of the government.

!

303 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:05:22pm

re: #262 Charles

If you haven't noticed that there are factions on the right that want to dictate lifestyles and ideologies, I won't be able to convince you.

You're talking about ID, right?

It's not the entire Republican party.

As far as trying to dictate lifestyles, I don't see conservatives asking for people to be kept from living in any legal way they want to live.

I do see some Americans (and not just Republicans) objecting to the idea that we're all supposed to be forced to see homosexuality as no more different from heterosexuality than being left handed is differnt from being right handed.

I think this is something people have to be allowed to decide for themselves (as to whether or not they think homosexuality is like being left handed.) Trying to force acceptance of this on the nation isn't really fair.

304 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:05:42pm

re: #297 DistantThunder

You are talking about Prop. 8? And is it possible that you think Democrats did not help get that one on the ballot? Since when is this a Republican issue?

I voted no. But if it passes, it will pass with a hell of a lot of Democrat votes. You know why? Because there just aren't that many Republicans left in CA. to have that much influence.

305 The Archivist  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:05:48pm

re: #95 Charles

"The question is really: 'what is the purpose of blogs?' "

I would hope the purpose of blogs would be to proclaim liberty and promote freedom.

"Shill" sounds so cold, especially as winter approaches.

306 itellu3times  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:06:11pm

re: #208 TheWasteLand

With respect, when in modern history has the GOP had any electoral success moving to the center?

Eisenhower?

But even Nixon moved to the center for the general election.

One might argue about Bush41.

Or even Bush43's "compassionate conservatism", remember that?

We were so much younger then, ...

307 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:06:18pm

re: #246 formercorpsman
Hey there my friend. You know, back in 1964 there was a HUGE split in the Republican party between the Nelson Rockefeller/Jacob Javits Republican (and more liberal) wing of the party and the Barry Goldwater wing of the party. Goldwater won out and got CREAMED in the general election (though to his credit, I will say that I think Barry Goldwater was one of those rare - VERY RARE - politicians who didn't lie - he campaigned in St. Petersburgh Florida and told retirees why he was against social secuirty; he campaigned in Tennessee and other places and preached against the Tennessee Valley Authority and one incredulous reporter asked him why he didn't switch that around - complain about social security to the folks in Tenn and complain about the TVA to folks in St. Petersburg and - remember this was on live TV - Barry said "That would be dishonest. What I'm proposing about social security directly affects those retirees and that's why I talk to them about it). Privatizing (that wasn't the word he used, but it's what he meant) the TVA affects the folks in Tenn and those other areas and that's why I talk to them about it." And he actually looked at the reporter as if the reporter was crazy - why should he be dishonest!
That schism between the Goldwater or Conservative wing of the Republican Party and the Rockefeller wing wasn't really healed over until Reagan won - and - as is obvious - it was a thin bandaid indeed.

308 nigella  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:06:22pm

Charles, I understand where you're coming from. We as humans all have our own idea of what is "correct". I try to go by what I feel are some good guidelines. Being older,59, I'm probably a little less "hip" then some of you younger folks.I never try to dictate how someone else should live their lives. I just feel sometimes that political correctness has us being forced to accept things we feel are not particularly in the best interests of our Country.I don't care how you live your life, just don't expect me toagree with it.

309 a marine mom  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:06:43pm

re: #275 Shug

here in n Michigan McCain is on top.

(at least until they count the votes)

I hear that the state of Michigan has run out of money for unemployment recipients. Is that true?

310 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:07:08pm

re: #296 maddogg

The constitution is the glue that holds the system on target, or should be.

The constitution really says nothing about policy, it's only a set of ground rules. There's nothing wrong with experienced legislators who can guide the system with their experience and knowledge. Without them the system could so easily founder.

311 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:07:17pm

re: #302 Syrah

So simple, it's crazy, huh?

312 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:08:26pm

re: #295 Sharmuta

We need to be a party of individual rights, fiscal responsibility and transparency on the part of the government.

Updinged for being a great ideal.

Any party should, but the problem for all political parties comes when a stance on a particular pet issue overrules the general ideals. At that point, they've done little more than admit they're willing to abandon ideals for political gain.

314 razorbacker  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:09:08pm

Women worry about the damnest things.

My wife's knee surgery went very poorly, leaving her unable to take more that a half-dozen steps at a time. She is, for all practical purposes now, bedridden. (We've another procedure scheduled as soon as she heals up some that we've higher hopes for. All is not lost.)

So I get her into the shower, get her clean, put her back into bed and go to get her some hot chocolate before sleep. I come back in with the chocolate and there are tears in her eyes again. I thought that I'd hurt her in the process, and asked what was wrong, what could I do?

She was crying because she thought that she wouldn't be able to get to the polls to vote. I told her, "Bullsh*t, you'll get there if I have to carry you on my back."

Lord love a duck. With all the things she could be crying over, what a damnfool thing to worry about.

But, at least she's still involved in the outside world.

315 gman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:09:09pm

The rabid religious right (not the centrist) wants to dictate people's lives to keep the "devil" from encroaching on their turf. It's just as bad as any mommy-state lefty as far as I'm concerned.

316 nigella  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:09:15pm

Just read what I wrote. I didn't mean Charles specifically, just people in general. (Did that sound like I was kissing up?)

317 Griffon  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:09:22pm
On the screen when I voted last week, Obama/Biden was first, McCain/Palin was second, and I didn't notice the order after that.

Wonder why they had Obama first?

Alphabetized by first names?

318 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:09:54pm

I say the country would be a Hellova lot better off if we rounded up all those damn Californians immigrating and fucking up perfectly good states like Colorado and Texas and sent them back to Californication. Build a wall along the state line and quaranteen the place to prevent their stupidity from infecting the rest of the country. Then look northeast...

319 Promethea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:10:09pm

re: #251 Age Of Freedom

I have an aversion to Google Earth, even though it's a fantastic product. The map of Israel is entirely spammed by Palestinian zealots (maybe just a couple of guys at best) and converted into that "lost Palestine" they love to mass murder for, based on sources from parallel universes. Google only needs to remove the name "Israel" now that they've managed to secure a status quo of ignoring American memorial and 9/11 days.

Unless they enforce the user based data efficiently, which they don't, I will passionately skip Google Earth.

Google Earth re Israel is a joke. In fact, I keep my toothbrush in a cup made in recent times as a tourist gimcrack in one of the few older Arab sites from the earlier times in Israel (Hisham Palace). But it's fun to use for other places, so don't avoid it just yet.

320 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:10:14pm

re: #315 gman

The rabid religious right (not the centrist) wants to dictate people's lives to keep the "devil" from encroaching on their turf. It's just as bad as any mommy-state lefty as far as I'm concerned.

For example? I'll settle for one. One example. Out with it.

321 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:10:22pm

re: #269 Intrepid
I think they list candidates in order of which political party has the most registered voters - but that's just a guess on my part.

322 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:10:40pm

re: #309 a marine mom

I hear that the state of Michigan has run out of money for unemployment recipients. Is that true?


I hadn't heard one way or the other.
I 've been too busy watching wall to wall Kwame Kilpatrick

323 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:07pm

re: #301 karmic_inquisitor

... I used to wonder why someone would go Libertarian when there is a perfectly good Republican Party.

I consider my self a pro-life libertarian, I have only voted once for a libertarian though. And that was way back in 1996. Most real libertarians are to far out there (drugs) for me.

The Democrats or the left, basically want to regulate the life out of any thing that moves.

If I were king I would eliminate the most of the cabinet positions, and the bureaucracies that go with them. End US involvement in the UN, Kill the Dept of Education for starters.

324 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:07pm

re: #312 gmsc

Updinged for being a great ideal.

Any party should, but the problem for all political parties comes when a stance on a particular pet issue overrules the general ideals. At that point, they've done little more than admit they're willing to abandon ideals for political gain.

And do you know how the platforms are shaped/altered?

By involvement from party members.

I know- I managed to alter my state party's platform from the floor of the state convention. Of course- that would not have happened without my being involved.

325 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:17pm

In Presidential elections, the Democrats always try to help their chances by pretending to be more on the right than they actually are.

This is because roughly 60% of the country identifies as being conservative (no matter which party they have joined.)

Republicans don't need to move to the left. That road would go nowhere.

McCain is closing the gap in this election in spite of the vast funding and incredible campaigning of the MSM in Obama's favor.

This situation isn't a problem for conservatism.

Obama used these tactics against his own party, too.

326 CheDub  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:31pm

re: #301 karmic_inquisitor

We will see how the aftermath goes, but I may just start calling myself a Libertarian after this election. I have never agreed with a party completely, and the Ls are nuts on some things, but the heart is in the right place in my book. I used to wonder why someone would go Libertarian when there is a perfectly good Republican Party.

I've usually considered myself a libertarian and agree that the party does attract some, well, let's say interesting characters. But yes, overall they're message coincides with my ideas: Provide national defense to protect us from outside threats, make judgments when it comes to inter-state issues, then leave most items to the state level and leave me the f**k alone. Something along the lines of Reagan's 9 scariest words in the english language.

On a ride rant, I've never understood why we put so much weight on the President when it comes to domestic issues. That should be the job of Congress and the states. It doesn't seem realistic to expect 1 person to know how to solve the problems of 300million people. It's only when we talk to the rest of the world that we need to have a single, unifying voice. And I simply don't see 0bama having the balls to do that.

327 Griffon  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:32pm

re: #280 maddogg

Personally, as far as the House and Senate are concerned, I would just as soon clean house and toss ALL the bums out, start over with a clean slate. Put in term limits to keep moss from growing on their asses and brains.

And limit those huge pensions they get. Who else gets a huge pension for working 2 years.

328 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:41pm

re: #303 Adina in Judea

There are plenty in the Evangelical Christian movement (full disclosure, I consider myself evangelical) who would like to legislate their vision of Biblical morality.

Where I diverge with them is that it's not a legislative matter, it's a matter of spiritually conversion, done one on one. Those who sign on to my view of morality do so willing, not through coercion of government.

329 gman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:46pm

re: #320 rawmuse

For example? I'll settle for one. One example. Out with it.

banning same- sex marriage

330 ggt  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:11:53pm

Hello Night Lizards! It wasn't too bad today in Near Iowa.

So, since Lizards are (usually) cold-blooded, what do you do to keep warm at night?

How are you-all and what, as if I have to ask, are we talking about?

331 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:12:00pm

re: #314 razorbacker

God Bless her !

332 razorbacker  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:12:15pm

re: #285 Moe Katz

I think that could be very dangerous given your unusual form of democracy in the US, with its division of executive and legislative branches. Experienced members of Congress are the glue and the continuity that keeps your system on target, IMHO.

You Sir, are incorrect. That is what the Senate is supposed to be for. That's why they serve 6 years instead of only two.

But our system was intended to be one where individuals came to the seat of power for a limited time, then returned home to resume making a living.

It's not worked out that way, admittedly.

333 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:12:40pm

re: #307 realwest

I understand that history RW, and some of it makes sense.

Others have actually opined in defense of the socially conservative structure of the party, and quite well in my opinion.

It would appear to me, numerous social positions could be alluded to, but there are obviously some that take precedent over others.

Again, I think this could discussed in an adult manner, with differing points of view, but it always seems to devolve into arguments.

It is getting late, and I'm about to head out.

334 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:13:34pm

Uhhh ... If folks want an example of the right imposing itself on others, Terry Schaivo comes to mind.

Here we are, a group of people who say that no one is better to make tough decisions about family matters but the family itslef. We also talk about rule of law.

Well there was a case where the rule of law (family law) dealt with conflict within a family, and the ultimate decision was a family member who had the best position to know Terry Schaivo's intent.

So what happened? A freaking circus around "sanctity of life".

Well no shit - life is precious, but life is never black and white. Should we, a mass of remotely interested parties, make that decision for the rightful family member?

If the answer is "yes" then don't ever lecture people on the evils of big government.

I know Schaivo is a third rail issue, but people asked for an example, and that one is clear as day.

335 ggt  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:13:43pm

re: #323 Dasher

The drug thing get's me with the Liberatarians also.

336 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:13:50pm

re: #310 Moe Katz

The constitution really says nothing about policy, it's only a set of ground rules. There's nothing wrong with experienced legislators who can guide the system with their experience and knowledge. Without them the system could so easily founder.

The guys who wrote the Constitution and set up the government had not spent 30 years in office collecting graft and barnacles on their asses. And I think they did a pretty fair job. Do you think the current crop of miscreants could do as well?

337 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:14:10pm

re: #329 gman

banning same- sex marriage

Prop. 8 in CA. was put on the ballot by BOTH parties. You had to collect signatures to put in on the ballot. There is no way in hell all those signatures were from nothing but Republicans.

I call bullshit.

338 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:14:20pm

ACORN Update! I just got the call- we found over 200 fraudulent registrations!

339 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:14:22pm

re: #332 razorbacker

You Sir, are incorrect. That is what the Senate is supposed to be for. That's why they serve 6 years instead of only two.

But our system was intended to be one where individuals came to the seat of power for a limited time, then returned home to resume making a living.

It's not worked out that way, admittedly.

I meant Congress in the sense of both houses Senate and House of Representatives, not just the House. Sorry for the ambiguity. Not so sure about your assertion that professional politicians were not envisioned in the original framing of your system of government.

340 opinionated  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:14:52pm

re: #120 Charles

If Obama wins, there's going to be a big push to get bloggers to sign onto becoming the Daily Right-Wing Kos. And there's going to be an even bigger push to get the GOP to become even more socially conservative, in the misguided belief that "lack of purity" is the reason for the loss.

And they're going to lose me if that happens, just like the Democrats lost me after 9/11.

As a confessed bitter Giuliani supporter, as we get ever closer to an Obama Presidency, if I wasn't crying I would laugh at how they savaged Giulaini because he wasn't pure on those most crucial of issues, guns, gays and abortion.

Issues totally irrelevant in this general election.

They cheered when Giuliani was gone. Someone look, are they still cheering?

Iowa is less then just four years away, my bet is they learned nothing.

341 razorbacker  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:15:12pm

re: #331 Shug

God Bless her !

Thank you. She'll a fiesty little thing. We'll be okay eventually.

342 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:15:14pm

re: #325 Adina in Judea

In Presidential elections, the Democrats always try to help their chances by pretending to be more on the right than they actually are.

This is because roughly 60% of the country identifies as being conservative (no matter which party they have joined.)

Republicans don't need to move to the left. That road would go nowhere.

McCain is closing the gap in this election in spite of the vast funding and incredible campaigning of the MSM in Obama's favor.

This situation isn't a problem for conservatism.

Obama used these tactics against his own party, too.

Hate to nit-pick, but nit-pick I must- 60% consider themselves conservative or somewhat conservative. This is why America is a center-right country.

343 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:15:29pm

re: #315 gman

The rabid religious right (not the centrist) wants to dictate people's lives to keep the "devil" from encroaching on their turf. It's just as bad as any mommy-state lefty as far as I'm concerned.

There are a few (only a few) social issues that the far religious right considers worthy issues that invade thier politics (abortion, creationsim in schools, certain aspects of sex education).

But a leftist mentality wants to control almost all aspects of lift, from habits (smoking, drinking, eating fatty foods) to how you spend your money (the government will share it for you).

I don't see the the similarity. Please expound on you position.

344 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:15:42pm

re: #314 razorbacker

Wheelchairs can be rented for a fairly small price.

Please get your wife a wheelchair (even if it's only for outside use.)

I've had family members laid up with broken bones.

An outside wheelchair for a few months does wonders.

Best wishes to you and your wife!

P.S. As for indoors - you can get a narrow office chair on wheels for not much money at Office Max or one of those places. If you don't put the arms on a small version of this chair, it can fit through almost any door (if you get the really small office chairs.)

I saw this on a TV show about a paraplegic. It works in small spaces.

345 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:16:15pm

re: #308 nigella

Charles, I understand where you're coming from. We as humans all have our own idea of what is "correct". I try to go by what I feel are some good guidelines. Being older,59, I'm probably a little less "hip" then some of you younger folks.I never try to dictate how someone else should live their lives. I just feel sometimes that political correctness has us being forced to accept things we feel are not particularly in the best interests of our Country.I don't care how you live your life, just don't expect me toagree with it.

And that's the point of Prop 8. In Massachusettes a case came before the court in which a family wanted the choice of opt-ing out of the family life module that dealt with same sex families presented to their kindergartener. They were told that because gay marriage was legal - they had no opt-out option. So they fought it and lost. But it is that kind of socio-political imposition against the will of the parents that is so disturbing. No one I know gives a second thought as to whether Ellen marries Portia de Rossi - but then there is major blowback directly into our families through the schools - and through businesses and churches that are forced to deal with things that they would rather not.

One of the suits that was brought by a lesbian couple was against a counselor who did not have the expertise to deal with gay relationships. She referred them to someone - as she was ethically required to do - to someone who did have that expertise - and she was sued successfully for discrimination.

346 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:16:30pm

re: #332 razorbacker

You Sir, are incorrect. That is what the Senate is supposed to be for. That's why they serve 6 years instead of only two.

But our system was intended to be one where individuals came to the seat of power for a limited time, then returned home to resume making a living.

It's not worked out that way, admittedly.

should be a requirement that elected officials have at least started and kept the doors open on a business as small as a coffee cart for at least 3 years before taking office.

347 gman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:16:35pm

re: #337 rawmuse

Prop. 8 in CA. was put on the ballot by BOTH parties. You had to collect signatures to put in on the ballot. There is no way in hell all those signatures were from nothing but Republicans.

I call bullshit.

You're right, the rabid religious right could care less about gay marriage.

/

348 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:17:44pm

I got a robocall from Sen. John Coryn (R-TX) earlier today asking me to vote for him. I live in Missouri.

349 jcm  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:17:44pm

re: #335 ggt

The drug thing get's me with the Liberatarians also.

They lose me there too.
I've had too many foster kids who's sole reason for being in the system was the parents drug use.

350 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:18:21pm

re: #336 maddogg

The guys who wrote the Constitution and set up the government had not spent 30 years in office collecting graft and barnacles on their asses. And I think they did a pretty fair job. Do you think the current crop of miscreants could do as well?

Well that's a cynical view of politicians that I've heard in the US and Canada ad nauseam and I don't buy it. At least experienced politicians are competent. Newbies have to learn from someone. And as far as corruption is concerned, I'd rather be led by someone that knew she was doing and was sticking a few bucks in her bra than by a saintly schoolteacher or minister that was above temptation but had never managed anything more advanced than a church rummage sale.

351 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:18:42pm

re: #347 gman

You're right, the rabid religious right could care less about gay marriage.

/

Just ask Larry Craig

352 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:18:48pm

re: #328 jcm

There are plenty in the Evangelical Christian movement (full disclosure, I consider myself evangelical) who would like to legislate their vision of Biblical morality.

Well, it's not going to happen.

I'm sure they realize this.

The Republican party doesn't need to stop doing something it's not doing.

353 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:18:55pm

re: #347 gman

You're right, the rabid religious right could care less about gay marriage.

/

My point is that the "rabid religious right" are not confined to the Republicans.
You have no idea of the type of Democrats that I grew up with in South, who were truly right-wing (think Gov. Wallace).

Those people did not go away.

354 Dasher  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:19:34pm

I would be in favor of term limits of them for both the house and the senate, no more than 12 years for either one. 6 terms for house, 2 for senate.

I used to be against them because I really liked my Senator, and current congresswoman, but over the years, I have found that new ones, just as good come along pretty regularly.

355 BlueCanuck  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:19:45pm

re: #330 ggt


So, since Lizards are (usually) cold-blooded, what do you do to keep warm at night?

How are you-all and what, as if I have to ask, are we talking about?

Night shift checking in here as well. ggt, on those cold, cold nights in Canuckistan I usually use extra blankets, polar fleece, and hot fluids. Soups, teas, hot chocolate, grog, you know, the good stuff.

/I only go outside for essentials and work. :)

356 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:20:15pm

Is Murtha gonna lose?

357 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:20:36pm

re: #324 Sharmuta

And do you know how the platforms are shaped/altered?

By involvement from party members.

I know- I managed to alter my state party's platform from the floor of the state convention. Of course- that would not have happened without my being involved.

So, it's OK to be a party concerned for individual rights/fiscal responsibility and transparency, and also OK if enough members vote to take a particular stance that overrides individual rights or fiscal responsibility in one area?

(Of course I know you don't mean that. I'm trying to clarify what I said in my earlier message.)

All I'm saying is that conflicts like those are at the heart of the drift of just about any political party from their ideals.

358 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:20:42pm

re: #320 rawmuse
Um, well, let's see: the "Rabid Religious Right" wants to dictate gay marriage or if you prefer civil unions. Oh, and of course Abortion. And, uh, teaching Intelligent Design in science classes in taxpayer funded schools.

359 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:20:54pm

re: #347 gman

You're right, the rabid religious right could care less about gay marriage. /

Big fucking deal. So, if something gets on a state ballot, and it passes, then guess what? It's becuase a majority of people wants it.

But a leftist mentality wants to control almost all aspects of life, from habits (smoking, drinking, eating fatty foods) to how you spend your money (the government will share it for you).

I bet you could find 10 times as many nanny propositions that the left wants to be made law than ANY religiously influenced agenda.

360 spidly  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:21:12pm

re: #337 rawmuse

Prop. 8 in CA. was put on the ballot by BOTH parties. You had to collect signatures to put in on the ballot. There is no way in hell all those signatures were from nothing but Republicans.

I call bullshit.

At least prop 8 is in the proper venue at the individual state level. the fed only has a role when it comes to the full faith and credit issue so when I can carry in all 50 states with my OR or FL CHL, I'll care.

361 Opilio  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:21:58pm

re: #272 gmsc

What's the order they're using? I can see major parties first, then third-parties, but beyond that, I can figure out how that order was determined.

I looked it up, and discovered Arizona Revised Statutes § 16-502 (E)

E. The lists of the candidates of the several parties shall be arranged with the names of the parties in descending order according to the votes cast for governor for that county in the most recent general election for the office of governor, commencing with the left-hand column. In the case of political parties which did not have candidates on the ballot in the last general election, such parties shall be listed in alphabetical order below the parties which did have candidates on the ballot in the last general election.
362 The Archivist  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:22:07pm

re: #328 jcm

Absolutely right. It has to be willingly of the individual.
Otherwise it isn't real, isn't owned of the individual.
Otherwise it is mere legalism, the very opposite of a true Christian faith.

363 gman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:22:09pm

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

There are a few (only a few) social issues that the far religious right considers worthy issues that invade thier politics (abortion, creationsim in schools, certain aspects of sex education).

But a leftist mentality wants to control almost all aspects of lift, from habits (smoking, drinking, eating fatty foods) to how you spend your money (the government will share it for you).

I don't see the the similarity. Please expound on you position.

I grew up under the umbrella of the rabid religious right. I know perfectly well how they want adherence to their group paradigm. If you don't toe the line you are not part of the circle. Questioning group thinking is not permitted and is considered blasphemous. It's the "church" versus the "materialistic" world which is seen as being under the control of the devil.

364 razorbacker  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:22:35pm

re: #344 Adina in Judea

We live in the country, hill country. No sidewalks, no pavement. We'd need an all terrain wheelchair. I know they make them, but they're frightfully expensive.

And the designers of our home put in 26" doorways to the baths. I'll change them, but it's going to take some time. Can't even get a walker through them right now.

Trust me, these things have become a concern far faster than we thought they would.

365 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:22:46pm

re: #340 opinionated

As a confessed bitter Giuliani supporter, as we get ever closer to an Obama Presidency, if I wasn't crying I would laugh at how they savaged Giulaini because he wasn't pure on those most crucial of issues, guns, gays and abortion.

Issues totally irrelevant in this general election.

They cheered when Giuliani was gone. Someone look, are they still cheering?

Iowa is less then just four years away, my bet is they learned nothing.

The main thing was to get the Republican base excited.

Sarah Palin did this.

Support from the base was absolutely necessary in this election.

Obama has had gazillions of dollars and almost full MSM co-campaigning complicity, but the Republican base had to be connected to the Republican ticket to get as far as the ticket has gotten up to this point. Nothing else would have worked.

366 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:22:47pm

re: #347 gman

gman, you did see the vice presidential debate when both were asked about supporting gay marriage?

Both sides were against it.

Both were also amenable to something in principle, which allowed for nearly all of the privileges allowed to married couples, minus calling it marriage.

What would be your reasoning to label only the right wing on this?

367 maddogg  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:23:21pm

re: #350 Moe Katz

Well that's a cynical view of politicians that I've heard in the US and Canada ad nauseam and I don't buy it. At least experienced politicians are competent. Newbies have to learn from someone. And as far as corruption is concerned, I'd rather be led by someone that knew she was doing and was sticking a few bucks in her bra than by a saintly schoolteacher or minister that was above temptation but had never managed anything more advanced than a church rummage sale.


Well we will just have to disagree. I prefer an inexperienced person of intelligence and character over a competent crook. The job isn't that difficult if morons like Harry Reid and Murtha can do it.

368 Intrepid  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:23:29pm

Government computer checks on Joe the Plumber more intensive than was first reported

They started running these checks the day after the last debate and were sanctioned by Helen Jones-Kelley, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

The checks were run after the news media reported that Wurzelbacher was considering buying a plumbing business with more than $250,000 in annual income, Jones-Kelley wrote.

"Given our understanding that Mr. Wurzelbacher had publicly indicated that he had the means to purchase a substantial business enterprise, ODJFS, consistent with past departmental practice, checked confidential databases ," she wrote.

"Not surprisingly, when a person behind in child support payments or receiving public assistance is receiving significant media attention which suggests that the person appears to have available financial resources, the Department risks justifiable criticism if it fails to take note and respond," Jones-Kelley wrote.

Wow. Just...wow.

369 jeremy0114  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:23:51pm

Politicians raise social issues on both sides to stir up emotion in people, and stirred up people get out their checkbook.

Abortion, Creationism, Affirm Action, Gun rights, all cash cows for politicians trying to fleece money out of people.

That is why those issues will never be solved. Too much cash at stake.

Personally, I don't care about any of them, save for gun rights. That is actually in the constitution, unlike the rest of the aforementioned gobbitleygook.

370 razorbacker  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:24:20pm

re: #356 Shug

Is Murtha gonna lose?

He's already lost.

Now the election, I don't know about that.

371 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:24:23pm

re: #358 realwest

Um, well, let's see: the "Rabid Religious Right" wants to dictate gay marriage or if you prefer civil unions. Oh, and of course Abortion. And, uh, teaching Intelligent Design in science classes in taxpayer funded schools.

But, RW, are those issues official planks of the Republican Party?
That is what I am trying to clarify.
Abortion, yes. I personally think each one is a tragedy, and I don't wish to be party to it, as a taxpayer. It is one thing to object to something, another to COMPEL you to be party to it via the State.

372 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:24:38pm

re: #368 Intrepid

Government computer checks on Joe the Plumber more intensive than was first reported

They started running these checks the day after the last debate and were sanctioned by Helen Jones-Kelley, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

Wow. Just...wow.

Big Brother.

373 gman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:24:59pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

Big fucking deal. So, if something gets on a state ballot, and it passes, then guess what? It's becuase a majority of people wants it.

But a leftist mentality wants to control almost all aspects of life, from habits (smoking, drinking, eating fatty foods) to how you spend your money (the government will share it for you).

I bet you could find 10 times as many nanny propositions that the left wants to be made law than ANY religiously influenced agenda.

When you go to extremes a funny thing happens- convergence

374 CheDub  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:25:15pm

re: #349 jcm

They lose me there too.
I've had too many foster kids who's sole reason for being in the system was the parents drug use.

Agreed. The "I do it in my house, so it doesn't affect anyone else" argument is BS. Either other people (children) in the house suffer or the person decides to leave the house and cause trouble because the hallucinations told them to.

375 realwest  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:25:24pm

re: #333 formercorpsman
Well heck, I hope you don't head out on my account, I ENJOY discussing matters in an adult fashion.
I think both major political parties basic precept can be summarized these days as "what do we have to do or say to get elected?" That is, what do the MAJORITY of Americans want out of our government. That's not exactly a philosophical basis for a political party, but it's actually worked pretty well MOST of the time, ya know?

376 DistantThunder  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:25:32pm

re: #371 rawmuse

But, RW, are those issues official planks of the Republican Party?
That is what I am trying to clarify.
Abortion, yes. I personally think each one is a tragedy, and I don't wish to be party to it, as a taxpayer. It is one thing to object to something, another to COMPEL you to be party to it via the State.

Exactly. It becomes an issue for me when I have to fund it.

377 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:25:55pm

re: #334 karmic_inquisitor

A freaking circus around "sanctity of life".

You should not conflate a court issue in the republic to the morality of the culture of life.

378 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:25:59pm

re: #238 Moe Katz

Must have been in a cross mood.

Obviously wasn't really torqued, though.

379 stevieray  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:05pm

re: #338 Sharmuta

ACORN Update! I just got the call- we found over 200 fraudulent registrations!

Great job! Give us details!

380 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:26pm

re: #367 maddogg

Well we will just have to disagree. I prefer an inexperienced person of intelligence and character over a competent crook. The job isn't that difficult if morons like Harry Reid and Murtha can do it.


That's a Canadian Conservative (Tory) tradition. A little patronage here, a little graft there, but just judge us on the economic health of the country.

381 The Archivist  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:29pm

re: #368 Intrepid

The lie to her statement is in the implications of that last paragraph--because Joe has custody of his son! How can he be suspected of being behind in child support payments when he's the one who has custody? This doesn't wash.

382 gman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:45pm

re: #366 formercorpsman

gman, you did see the vice presidential debate when both were asked about supporting gay marriage?

Both sides were against it.

Both were also amenable to something in principle, which allowed for nearly all of the privileges allowed to married couples, minus calling it marriage.

What would be your reasoning to label only the right wing on this?

not the right wing, the rabid religious right wing

383 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:51pm

re: #361 Opilio

Now there's a heckuva weird way to order them!

I guess if it works for Arizona, though, and it hasn't caused any problems, there's probably no need to change.

384 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:54pm

Two things:

About my work on outing ACORN fraud in my Congressional district- this opportunity would not have been possible for me without having worked with the republicans I worked with on this for years. They knew they could count on me to help.

About changing my state party platform- I proposed this change at my BPOU convention- it was voted on by the people there and was passed on to the CD convention. At the CD convention, it was voted on and passed on to the state convention. At state- it was killed in committee. When I learned of this, my only option was to raise the issue from the floor. When the section of the platform my proposal was involved with came up, I went to the microphone and told the entire state delegation what I thought we should do. The chair asked me "why", so I stated I didn't think it was incumbent upon the taxpayers to provide this and the party should stand for making it the law. I received thunderous applause for a proposal the state platform committee tried to kill. It was put to a floor vote and passed without a single "nay".

Both of these came about because of involvement in the party.

385 Moe Katz  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:26:56pm

re: #378 Alberta Oil Peon

Obviously wasn't really torqued, though.

THANK GOD SOMEONE GOT IT!

386 Adina in Judea  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:27:05pm

re: #364 razorbacker

We live in the country, hill country. No sidewalks, no pavement. We'd need an all terrain wheelchair. I know they make them, but they're frightfully expensive.

And the designers of our home put in 26" doorways to the baths. I'll change them, but it's going to take some time. Can't even get a walker through them right now.

Trust me, these things have become a concern far faster than we thought they would.

Do you guys have a car?

I was thinking more about using a wheelchair to get to a car so that you could go to places like stores and election polling centers.

As for the 26 inch doorways - there are small office chairs that are less than 26 inches wide (especially if you leave off the arms.)

Using a very small office chair on wheels does work for getting into bathrooms.

Best wishes!

387 x-wing  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:27:23pm

re: #356 Shug

Is Murtha gonna lose?

Hope so. Hot Air has an article that Pelosi is sending buckets of money to help him.

/crossing fingers, cause I can't vote for Russell

388 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:27:35pm

re: #363 gman

I grew up under the umbrella of the rabid religious right. I know perfectly well how they want adherence to their group paradigm. If you don't toe the line you are not part of the circle. Questioning group thinking is not permitted and is considered blasphemous. It's the "church" versus the "materialistic" world which is seen as being under the control of the devil.

So what. That's with in the church community. Show me some law that the rabid religious right has put into effect nationwide.

Are you suggesting that these sort of religious communities should be outlawed?

Sure, there are some really radical religious sects. And you may have been part of that, but you sound like you are equating all evengelicals with the type of people you had the displeasure of growing up with.

And I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm an atheist. But you are being unreasonable, actually a bit dishonest. The way you feel does not mean your opinions are actual reality.

389 formercorpsman  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:27:55pm

re: #375 realwest

True, but some of these issues also raise conflict within the Constitutionality of implementation.

Whether or not we want something out of our government sometimes runs contrary to established law, and legal precedent.

390 opinionated  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:28:11pm

re: #365 Adina in Judea

The main thing was to get the Republican base excited.

Sarah Palin did this.

Support from the base was absolutely necessary in this election.

Obama has had gazillions of dollars and almost full MSM co-campaigning complicity, but the Republican base had to be connected to the Republican ticket to get as far as the ticket has gotten up to this point. Nothing else would have worked.

I disagree. I predicted before McCain choose a VP that if his choice excites the SoCons, he would lose the election.

Notwithstanding her unexpected genuinely exciting convention speech which caused a post mortem reflex of support, I believe her pick was the beginning of the end.

Palin does not get McCain a single vote he wouldn't otherwise have and not a single electoral vote.

391 BlueCanuck  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:28:20pm

re: #368 Intrepid

Some one asked me if I ever wanted to be a politician. Due to my vocal views, and opinions. I not only said no, I said HELL no. I could not put myself under that kind of microscope.

392 Shug  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:29:13pm

re: #387 x-wing

Hope so. Hot Air has an article that Pelosi is sending buckets of money to help him.

/crossing fingers, cause I can't vote for Russell

I can't wait to see ex congressman Murtha fighting the marine lawsuits.

How quickly his friends in powerful places will drop him like 3rd period French

393 Syrah  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:29:19pm

re: #311 Sharmuta

So simple, it's crazy, huh?

I went to the Lucy Exhibit at the Seattle Pacific Science Center today.

Fascinating stuff. Worth the ticket price.

The exhibit was split pretty evenly between the the Paleontological artifacts concerning Lucy and the history of Ethiopia.

It was an exercise in perspective.

The history of Ethiopia Spanning several thousand years and the bones of a creature that was nearly 4 million years old.

So much is in reality, very ephemeral, existing for but a fleeting moment in a vast expanse of time and history.

394 gmsc  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:29:43pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

About changing my state party platform- I proposed this change at my BPOU convention- it was voted on by the people there and was passed on to the CD convention. At the CD convention, it was voted on and passed on to the state convention. At state- it was killed in committee. When I learned of this, my only option was to raise the issue from the floor. When the section of the platform my proposal was involved with came up, I went to the microphone and told the entire state delegation what I thought we should do. The chair asked me "why", so I stated I didn't think it was incumbent upon the taxpayers to provide this and the party should stand for making it the law. I received thunderous applause for a proposal the state platform committee tried to kill. It was put to a floor vote and passed without a single "nay".

You're not only a fireball online, you're a fireball offline, too! YGG!

395 rawmuse  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:29:46pm

Who is it banning guns? Democrats
Who bans trans fats? Democrats
Who wants you stop smoking and will ban you from doing so, even in your own home or your own car? Democrats
Who wants to shut down talk radio? Democrats
Who wants to force you to drive little match box cars? Democrats
Who is it that put all the "hate crime" laws on the books? (btw, the same ones I predict that they will try to enforce on this site) Democrats
Who is that wants to tax you for driving during rush hours? Democrats

Need I go on, here?

396 solomonpanting  Wed, Oct 29, 2008 9:29:51pm