Yee-haaa!

Here is what is really happening - the Pope can't afford any of those cool fossils that the DI has so he has to schlep around with Stephen Hawking and other 2nd tier hacks.

/

“There is no opposition between faith’s understanding of creation and the evidence of the empirical sciences,” the pontiff said. ...

... and went on the say, "the faith requires a greater understanding of the empirical science of His creations."

As before - this challenges core belief systems .. git it on.

Charles! Stop it! You're obsessed! Why do you hate Christians! You stinking atheist!

An earlier understanding of this might have prevented my break with the Church. Or maybe not. Lachesis can be so fickle sometimes.

Just thought I'd say it before someone else (inevitably) does.

I actually discussed ID today with an IDer and I even brought in The Church. I don't think he was too happy with me when I was done talking to him, but I did wish him good luck on selling a 6000 year old earth to people.

Buy or borrow Hawkins, A Breif history of Time.
Its well worth the time to read.

(Don't feed the trolls)

Oh, I forgot one.

re: #10 SurferDoc

(Don't feed the trolls)

Are you talking about comment #5?

Why is the Pope so godless?
/

This is so boring! Why don't you focus on important stuff! You're losing readers! Nobody cares! You're obsessed!

re: #5 Charles

Charles! Stop it! You're obsessed! Why do you hate Christians! You stinking atheist!

What's the matter Charles? Is your message about not posting complaints about this topic sinking in to the point that you must resort to self-abuse?

Stephen Hawking - not only a brilliant mind, but a good poker player, too!

Am I the only one who giggles a little at a meeting between the Pope and Mr. Hawking? I'm sure the conversation was riveting.

re: #12 Sharmuta

Are you talking about comment #5?

No, I was thinking of the hijacking of the last thread.

F#@k The Creationists
(language warning)

My favorite snip from a Pope Bennedict speech. Not his words, he was quoting the 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus. But you already knew that.

Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

re: #14 Charles

A pre-emptive strike. I like it.

re: #18 SurferDoc

No, I was thinking of the hijacking of the last thread.

Where is Cog?

re: #14 Charles

This is so boring! Why don't you focus on important stuff! You're losing readers! Nobody cares! You're obsessed!

Charles, you are in rare form tonight. Thank you for the act. I needed that.

re: #22 Bobibutu

Where is Cog?

Arrghhh!

re: #14 Charles

Wow, you are on a roll! ;)

Obviously Stinky's been around a bitmlonger than Pope Benedict:

"The Liao Dynasty (traditional Chinese: 遼朝; simplified Chinese: 辽朝; pinyin: Liáo Cháo), 907-1125, also known as the Khitan Empire (契丹國), was an empire in northern China that ruled over the regions of Manchuria, Mongolia, and parts of northern China proper. It was founded by the Yelu clan (耶律 Yēlǜ) of the Khitan people in the same year as Tang Dynasty collapsed (907), even though its first ruler, Yelü Abaoji, did not declare an era name until 916.
Although it was originally known as the Empire of the Khitan, the Emperor Yelü Ruan officially adopted the name "Liao" (formally "Great Liao") in 947 (938?). The name "Liao" was dropped in 983, but readopted in 1066. Another name for China in English, Cathay, is derived from the name Khitan. This is also the origin of the Russian word for China, Китай or Kitay, and that of several other East European languages.
The Liao Empire was destroyed by the Jurchen of the Jin Dynasty in 1125. However, remnants of its people led by Yelü Dashi established Xi (Western) Liao Dynasty 1125-1220, also known as Kara-Khitan Khanate, which survived until the arrival of Genghis Khan's unified Mongolian army."

re: #10 SurferDoc

(Don't feed the trolls)

Don't we want them all fattened up for the ceremonial gamy buttocks feast?

re: #22 Bobibutu

Where is Cog?

Still arguing with himself on the previous thread. ;)

re: #5 Charles

Charles! Stop it! You're obsessed! Why do you hate Christians! You stinking atheist!

Where's the sarc tag?

re: #25 poopeedoo

Wow, you are on a roll! ;)

cracked wheat or sourdough?

The picture of Benedict and Hawking together is awesome!

re: #27 FurryOldGuyJeans

Don't we want them all fattened up for the ceremonial gamy buttocks feast?

Ewww!

re: #24 SurferDoc

Arrghhh!

lol

re: #14 Charles

This is so boring! Why don't you focus on important stuff! You're losing readers! Nobody cares! You're obsessed!

"Why do you hate God?"

(my personal favorite)

What else could the Pope have said without sounding like a fool?

re: #30 FurryOldGuyJeans

Heh.

Of course that doesn't matter to some Catholics, to them the pope is a heretic.

It kinda started way back when, with one of the Catholic Churche's first schisms.

Orientalism anyone?

re: #29 Rancher

Where's the sarc tag?

The type of complaints he is preempting are not done in sarcasm but in deadly serious intent.

Wish this kinda thinking was around when I was still going to church. One of the many reasons I stopped attending. Too many young earthers, and if you were an evolutionist you were a heretic. Learning the scientific method in high school helped me immensely in understanding science. Philosophy and spirituality is a little more daunting, and I am struggling still.

/I succeeded in getting an education despite the school system. :)

Remember being a child in Miami and being told I wasn't a "Christian" because I was Catholic.

Always caused me to do a double take.

As far as I see it, evolution is God's process. The two do not contradict one another and I never understood the reason for controversy. Sometimes though the Zealots on either side of an issue get all the attention.

re: #19 Killgore Trout

F#@k The Creationists
(language warning)

Great, now we just need Salmantis.

/lots of pent up energy apparently

Pisycx rules

re: #27 FurryOldGuyJeans

Don't we want them all fattened up for the ceremonial gamy buttocks feast?

IMO, trolls are usually fat enough from sitting in their mom's basement living on snickers, chips, and soda.

re: #40 yesandno

Heard that one from a church I attended for a summer. To them, the Catholic Church was the beast from Revelations.

/wack jobs.

re: #40 yesandno

Remember being a child in Miami and being told I wasn't a "Christian" because I was Catholic.

Always caused me to do a double take.

I am not catholic my self, but one of my very best friends is. One of my co-workers tried to make that same point "catholics aren't really christians" once.....even after he explained, I still don't get it

re: #35 Spare O'Lake

What else could the Pope have said without sounding like a fool?

"Stephen, baby, it's great to see you! Look everybody, it's Stephen Hawking! Stand up, Stephen! Oh, god love you, what am I saying?"

/Pope Biden II

re: #19 Killgore Trout

F#@k The Creationists
(language warning)

No thanks, I want to respect myself in the morning.

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

re: #7 Charles

Just thought I'd say it before someone else (inevitably) does.

Charles -

On this one - I'm with Stinky.

-S-

re: #27 FurryOldGuyJeans

Don't we want them all fattened up for the ceremonial gamy buttocks feast?

Just out of curiosity; I after we feast on the gamy buttocks of our foes, what do we do with the rest of them?

Just throwing this out there, do creationist cite simultaneous invention in their theory, if I can call it that?

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

Where is the discrepancy?

IMO, *miracles* are not outside of science: science just doesn't understand them yet.

What a pair. The Pope and Stephen Hawking.

In a completely secular world there would never be a Stephen Hawking. Prolonging such a fragile life wouldn't be worth all that effort and cost.

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

They meet on the top of the mountain and find all is the same.

re: #56 Bobibutu

They meet on the top of the mountain and find all is the same.

Crowded mountain, eh?

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

42.

re: #57 FurryOldGuyJeans

Crowded mountain, eh?

RGR ;-)

re: #31 Sharmuta

The picture of Benedict and Hawking together is awesome!

re: #31 Sharmuta

The picture of Benedict and Hawking together is awesome!

I seem to remember a similar image. As a matter of fact, it featured a high leader of a religious organization, very similar in appearance to Pope Benedict. It also featured a younger man who, because of physical difficulties, also largely depended on machines and computers to help him survive and communicate.

Ah! Here's the picture!

I forgot some other talking points...

re: #38 FurryOldGuyJeans

The type of complaints he is preempting are not done in sarcasm but in deadly serious intent.

Fair enough. I just said that because I don't use the tag even when I should.

re: #19 Killgore Trout

F#@k The Creationists
(language warning)

"Bring that shit in" :)

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

The fact is people don't generally do much reconciling. They compartmentalize their knowledge and their opinions into different context-worlds. For the most part the conflicting ideas are never juxtaposed, and it never becomes a problem.

re: #61 Charles

I forgot some other talking points...

Just wait, you should be receiving ample reiterations to remind you.

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

That is faith. Belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ doesn't preclude disbelief in science. Besides, given enough facts and readings and observation, it probably could be justified scientifically. Unfortunately we would need a time machine to set up all the instruments to do the recording. So until then, they must go on faith alone with that. Besides there's a lot more interesting stuff in the universe to nail down and figure out with out trying to prove that.

/mmmmm quantum theory.

re: #55 Mich-again

What a pair. The Pope and Stephen Hawking.

In a completely secular world there would never be a Stephen Hawking. Prolonging such a fragile life wouldn't be worth all that effort and cost.

Oh get over it, secularists don't want to kill everyone that doesn't measure up to some imaginary standard any more than the hyper-religious want to kill everybody that doesn't believe the way they do.

re: #55 Mich-again

What a pair. The Pope and Stephen Hawking.

In a completely secular world there would never be a Stephen Hawking. Prolonging such a fragile life wouldn't be worth all that effort and cost.

Tripe. He's lived decades longer than he thought he would (he was diagnosed in his late 20's), and the "secular" world has developed technology that allows him to communicate his ideas. He's not alive because of religion.

re: #53 FurryOldGuyJeans

Where is the discrepancy?

Life after death is a scientific impossibility.

re: #19 Killgore Trout

F#@k The Creationists
(language warning)

That was pretty dang funny. Kinda harsh, but still funny.

Piltdown Man! Haeckel drawings! Flood geology! Carbon dating is wrong! Darwinists are destroying morality! Hitler! Hitler Hitler Hitler!

re: #58 Charles

Catholics aren't creationists. Just so you know.

re: #69 Spare O'Lake

Life after death is a scientific impossibility.

No, it isn't. It is outside the purview of science, is all.

re: #71 Charles

You forgot entropy.

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

They can't. So...science is wrong then, huh?
/

re: #66 BlueCanuck

That is faith. Belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ doesn't preclude disbelief in science. Besides, given enough facts and readings and observation, it probably could be justified scientifically. Unfortunately we would need a time machine to set up all the instruments to do the recording. So until then, they must go on faith alone with that. Besides there's a lot more interesting stuff in the universe to nail down and figure out with out trying to prove that.

/mmmmm quantum theory.

Gotta love - strings.

re: #71 Charles

Piltdown Man! Haeckel drawings! Flood geology! Carbon dating is wrong! Darwinists are destroying morality! Hitler! Hitler Hitler Hitler!

Darwinists is the ultimate insult. ;)

re: #71 Charles

Bacterial flagellum! Tornado in a junkyard!

Lizards it was a good day and I wish you all a peaceful night. Yes, even you Cog. See you in the morning (if I wake up in time). Mandy, remember, I still hold the patent to the WHACKOMATIC since you failed to get it properly patented.

L8R

%-)

An ID thread is how I know I'm still alive to feel the throbbing, and exhiliration and tingling up my leg.

re: #71 Charles

Piltdown Man! Haeckel drawings! Flood geology! Carbon dating is wrong! Darwinists are destroying morality! Hitler! Hitler Hitler Hitler!

Panspermia?

re: #78 jaunte

Bacterial flagellum! Tornado in a junkyard!

Watch on the beach!

re: #67 CyanSnowHawk

Oh get over it, secularists don't want to kill everyone that doesn't measure up to some imaginary standard any more than the hyper-religious want to kill everybody that doesn't believe the way they do.

F* you and your strawman argument. I never said anything about killing anyone.

re: #80 DistantThunder

An ID thread is how I know I'm still alive to feel the throbbing, and exhiliration and tingling up my leg.

Sounds more like some serious nerve damage to me. ;)

re: #67 CyanSnowHawk

Oh get over it, secularists don't want to kill everyone that doesn't measure up to some imaginary standard any more than the hyper-religious want to kill everybody that doesn't believe the way they do.

But some leftists think it's better to be aborted than wear an elephant costume for Halloween.

re: #62 Rancher
Hmmm, round these parts y'all better use that sarc tag!

Okay, God is complete and utter bull[expletive deleted].

/you takes your chances

re: #19 Killgore Trout

F#@k The Creationists
(language warning)

MC Hawking . . . the second best nerdcore MC!

And for background sounds while we drill down.

re: #81 FurryOldGuyJeans

Panspermia?

OMG the Panspermia guy will show up now...NOOOO!

re: #80 DistantThunder

An ID thread is how I know I'm still alive to feel the throbbing, and exhiliration and tingling up my leg.

How is this an ID thread? The Pope is not a creationist. Geeze, did you even read the linked article.

re: #90 Jimmah

OMG the Panspermia guy will show up now...NOOOO!

Where?!? Sure isn't me.

re: #81 FurryOldGuyJeans

Panspermia?

Is that what happens when you play the Pan flute too long?

An anecdotal story from a Turkish/Jewish friend of mine. The subject of creationism came up and I mentioned Harun Yahya. He stated that his father (who had died at least a 10 - 15 years ago) HATED him because Harun is one of the biggest anti-Semites in Turkey. Has anyone else heard about this?

re: #87 Killian Bundy

Okay, God is complete and utter bull[expletive deleted].

/you takes your chances

But . . . you roll your dice and take your chances, and god doesn't play dice with the universe. However, a physicist said that, and . . .

**MIND BREAKS**

So this is where everyone went off to...

It must be borne in mind, though, that popes of earlier centuries would not have been so accommodating. Religion has steadily been ceding territory to science, to the point where it cannot make any claims about the 'real world' 'out there' that are at variance with scientific knowledge. Some Christians still try to make claims about the real world. For the rest, faith is reduced to making statements about things of the mind.

re: #88 gmsc

Who is the first-best nerdcore MC? Wierd Al?

re: #84 FurryOldGuyJeans

Sounds more like some serious nerve damage to me. ;)

Or a possibly fatal case of obaminus hopus changus.

Irreducible complexity! Vegetarian dinosaurs! Creationists are persecuted by the scientific establishment! One species has never evolved into another! Fossil record incomplete! Gaps! Gaps gaps gaps!

re: #90 Jimmah

As theories go, it makes more sense then most. Only way to prove it is to find other worlds with life.

re: #94 Dan G.

An anecdotal story from a Turkish/Jewish friend of mine. The subject of creationism came up and I mentioned Harun Yahya. He stated that his father (who had died at least a 10 - 15 years ago) HATED him because Harun is one of the biggest anti-Semites in Turkey. Has anyone else heard about this?

There is a strong overlap with Creationists and Anti-Semites in my experience, but not 100%, so if he is both would not be a surprise to me.

re: #86 realwest

Hmmm, round these parts y'all better use that sarc tag!

Mostly I think hope that it's obvious. I do catch some flack occasionally.

re: #98 Dan G.

Who is the first-best nerdcore MC? Wierd Al?

MC Escher!

Although, since we've brought up MC Escher and Weird Al . . .

This is yet another of those times when I have to wonder what all the fuss is about.
My dad always told me when I was young and curious about these things
"The day science depends on religion to justify is, or religion depends on science, they're both dead"
I just kinda left it at that.

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

Or a possibly fatal case of obaminus hopus changus.

Now that is a total lobotomy. ;)

re: #102 FurryOldGuyJeans

My thoughts exactly, just looking from more than one anecdotal source.

re: #83 Mich-again

F* you and your strawman argument. I never said anything about killing anyone.

No, you just suggested that Stephen Hawking would not be around, due to a secular disregard for imperfect life. Hardly a strawman.

re: #95 gmsc

And another physicist said "yes god does play dice with the universe, and sometimes he throws them where we can't see them."

/Any guess on who said that. :)

My favorite story in the Bible is about Lazarus. Jesus waits 4 days after the death of Lazarus to visit the family. Three days is the waiting time to make sure the person is truly dead. When Jesus arrives, the people tell him that Lazarus is obviously death because he "stinketh."

The Jesus prays to the Father in the presence of the crowd saying:

John 11:41-44

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

They don't.

"What if you're wrong?"

re: #95 gmsc

But . . . you roll your dice and take your chances, and god doesn't play dice with the universe. However, a physicist said that, and . . .

**MIND BREAKS**

/I'm sorry, I'm just tired of religion being ridiculed as incompatible with science

re: #94 Dan G.

An anecdotal story from a Turkish/Jewish friend of mine. The subject of creationism came up and I mentioned Harun Yahya. He stated that his father (who had died at least a 10 - 15 years ago) HATED him because Harun is one of the biggest anti-Semites in Turkey. Has anyone else heard about this?

He's tied to an Islamist/Nationalist party, forget the acronym, think it has an "N' in it, did some terror IIRC.

OT
Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby Poll: Is McCain Making a Move?
11/1/2008 - Obama 49.1%, McCain 44.1%
hmmmm

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

Book: What are we up to, sweetheart?
River: Fixing your Bible.
Book: I, um… What?
[Pan over to River, who works on a book with pens, brushes, and loose pages.]
River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logistics… doesn't make sense.
Book: No, no. You - you can't...
River: So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem.
Book: Really?
River: We'll have to call it "early quantum state phenomenon". Only way to fit 5,000 species of mammals on the same boat.
. . .
Book: River, you don't… fix the Bible.
River: It's broken. It doesn't make sense.
Book: It's not about… making sense. It's about believing in something. And letting that belief be real enough to change your life. It's about faith. You don't fix faith, River. It fixes you.

/Man, "Firefly" was a great series. It died too quickly.

It's just a theory!

I've read plenty of stuff saying that in the early years of Darwinian Evolution most religions didn't have as much of a problem with it as many people seem to have now. Odd. It's as if they're trying to show their commitment by holding on to and idea that really never was.

OT:

McCain was greeted with serious applause just now in his Saturday Night Live appearance. He did a skit with the pretend news anchor, Seth, where he discussed his alternative strategies in case the current one isn't working. Not great material, but he came across as very likeable ...warm and personable. He talked about using the "sad grandpa" strategy (where he would say to Obama that it's his turn to be president; that Obama has the rest of his life to run) or the "double maverick" strategy, where he would do what was expected of him and not question anything.

Overall, not too bad. The welcome from the audience surprised me, considering what I believe to be their political leanings.

re: #68 Pawn of the Oppressor

He is alive because many people who care about keeping the helpless alive have spent their own lives doing everything they could in that effort. Which is a moral pursuit moreso than a logical survival instinct pursuit.

I do not mean in any way to say secularists or atheists can't be perfectly moral people or they are any less moral than a religious person. But I personally don't think an "every single life is sacred" mentality can sprout from a purely logical perspective.

re: #109 BlueCanuck

And another physicist said "yes god does play dice with the universe, and sometimes he throws them where we can't see them."

/Any guess on who said that. :)

Has he met a Pope recently?

Keep talking...

re: #94 Dan G.

An anecdotal story from a Turkish/Jewish friend of mine. The subject of creationism came up and I mentioned Harun Yahya. He stated that his father (who had died at least a 10 - 15 years ago) HATED him because Harun is one of the biggest anti-Semites in Turkey. Has anyone else heard about this?

Absolutely true. Harun Yahya is a major scumbag; and it's not just the antisemitism.

Adnan Oktar (aka Harun Yahya):

In September 1999 Adnan Oktar was arrested following multiple scandals and further allegations that were fully covered by the Turkish media.[54] In that court case, Oktar was charged with using threats for personal benefit and creating an organization with the intent to commit a crime.[55] One complainant, a fashion model named Ebru Simsek claimed she was blackmailed.[56], and then slandered as a "prostitute" in fax messages sent to hundreds of different newspapers, TV channels, major business companies, foreign consulates and government offices for refusing to have sex with Adnan Oktar. The judicial process lasted over two years, during which most of the complainants' retracted their claims, repportedly because of threats or bribes from SRF members. As a result most of the cases against Oktar and SRF members were dismissed, with only two members receiving jail sentences for 1 year each.[57]

According to the indictment of the prosecutor’s office, cited by the daily Cumhuriyet, Adnan Oktar and associates raped young women many of whom were under the age of 18 on camera and blackmailed them by threatening to release the sex tapes to their friends and family members. Many of these young women were then forced to entice select young men from wealthy families with the promise of sex in exchange for attending events organised by the BAV. The court heard how in turn these girls were formed into a group called of what they referred to as "odalisques" (cariyeler) and were ordered to videotape their sex sessions with these young men and deliver the tapes to Oktar.[58]

Amidst ambiguous circumstances all charges were dropped by that court only to be picked by another court 8 years later. In 2008 Oktar was convicted a variety of crimes including engaging in criminal threats.[55][49] On May 2008 Oktar and 17 other members of his organisation were sentenced to 3 years in prison. Oktar intends to appeal these charges.

re: #113 Killian Bundy

/I'm sorry, I'm just tired of religion being ridiculed as incompatible with science

It only seems to be ridiculed by those who know neither except as something rote.

re: #106 FurryOldGuyJeans

Now that is a total lobotomy. ;)

Yes indeed. The bacterium infects the brain, causing an irrational desire to spread wealth around, coupled with compulsive chanting of "Hope! Change! Yes We Can!" The only known treatment is repeated whackings with a clue bat.

re: #117 Sharmuta

It's just a theory!

You shouldn't talk about religion that way!
;)

Show me an amoeba giving birth to a fish, and the fish giving birth to a mouse, and the mouse giving birth to a monkey and the monkey giving birth to a man! Just askin for some evidence is all.
/hovind mode off

re: #108 CyanSnowHawk

No, you just suggested that Stephen Hawking would not be around, due to a secular disregard for imperfect life. Hardly a strawman.

There is a huge rift between going to extraordinary means to preserving a life and killing it. You made that leap, not me.

re: #119 pink freud

All of the McCain appearances I've seen that require him to be funny and display a different side of him have always come across as very likable and funny.

re: #97 Moe Katz
Well ya know, Moe

Religion has steadily been ceding territory to science, to the point where it cannot make any claims about the 'real world' 'out there' that are at variance with scientific knowledge. Some Christians still try to make claims about the real world. For the rest, faith is reduced to making statements about things of the mind.

That could be because science has made some rather phenominal advances over the past oh, two hundred + years and hence latter day Popes are cognizant of that - course, not being a Roman Catholic I'm not sure of that.
Of one thing I am sure, however, is that faith is not "reduced" to making statements about things of the mind, but to making statements about things of the heart.
And yes, I do believe Creationism should not be taught in publically funded schools as part of a science curricula, but I do object to the idea that faith has been "reduced" to anything.

re: #116 Palandine

Great scene.

re: #100 Charles

Irreducible complexity! Vegetarian dinosaurs! Creationists are persecuted by the scientific establishment! One species has never evolved into another! Fossil record incomplete! Gaps! Gaps gaps gaps!

veggie dinos?
Lesbians can't reproduce!

Amazonians?

re: #129 bosforus

All of the McCain appearances I've seen that require him to be funny and display a different side of him have always come across as very likable and funny.

He is nothing like what the MSM now portrays to be. Back when he was a worthy Republican (not actually the candidate for POTUS) he was given some wonderfully flattering and well-rounded coverage.

re: #100 Charles

Vegetarian dinosaurs!

T-rex ate my coconuts!

re: #34 Pawn of the Oppressor

"Why do you hate God?"

(my personal favorite)

because G*d hates me?

after all, she put me here to suffer and die......

/white smoke

re: #49 Spare O'Lake

How do scientists reconcile science with the resurrection of
Christ?

Most scientists recognize the resurrection as a matter of faith, having nothing to do with empirical science, that is not a matter of the temporal.

Since the question was asked of the scientists under THEIR methodology, a pure purely scientific answer would be for YOU to recreate the experiment which YOU assert to have occurred, in a matter which any with similar and well defined parameters could recreate.

Failing to do so, while not proof the claimed event did not take place, would place the claimed event under pure conjecture, little more than a fantasy.

re: #123 Charles

I'll have to look it up, but if IIRC the some tried to spin the most recent imprisonment as punishment for his religous activities...

The famous ID author and Berkeley prof Philip E Johnson almost ran me over when I was jay walking near the Berkeley campus back in my college days.

I almost died of laughter when I realized what had just happened. (I recognized him because my dad has all of his books).

I nearly took myself out of the gene pool by my own stupidity at the hands of the father of the intelligent design movement!

True story.

re: #133 FurryOldGuyJeans

Back when he was a worthy Republican (not actually the candidate for POTUS) he was given some wonderfully flattering and well-rounded coverage.

Worthy because he was a pain in GWB's arse.

re: #134 Killgore Trout

T-rex ate my coconuts!

Best laugh I've had all day. Coconuts!

re: #115 Wishing
Um, McCain - according to them - is down 5 points to Obama - what the hell kind of "move" is that?

re: #119 pink freud

Of the best nic ever. Cool.

re: #101 BlueCanuck

As theories go, it makes more sense then most. Only way to prove it is to find other worlds with life.

Not in dispute with that at all, but if you'd seen the Panspermia guy's posts...

This guy - can't remember his name now, but he is always referencing panspermia as if it is a rival theory to evolution by natural selection, which it quite isn't. I've tried, and I've seen others try, to explain this to him, but he appears to be completely explanation proof.

Actually, I haven't seen him around for a good while come to think of it - I have a feeling he may have been flushed already.

Just because it's both relevant and cool to watch, check out this episode of James Burke's "The Day The Universe Changed", called "Infinitely Reasonable":

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

re: #131 Dan G.

Great scene.

I LOVED that show.

The part where Zoe says "It's okay, River, he's putting the hair away" still cracks me up.

/Ron Glass is the man

re: #138 pablito

The famous ID author and Berkeley prof Philip E Johnson almost ran me over when I was jay walking near the Berkeley campus back in my college days.

I almost died of laughter when I realized what had just happened. (I recognized him because my dad has all of his books).

I nearly took myself out of the gene pool by my own stupidity at the hands of the father of the intelligent design movement!

True story.

If I had actually died of laughter the ironies would have cancelled out. :-)

re: #139 Mich-again

Worthy because he was a pain in GWB's arse.

And here I thought that would be self-evident that it didn't need explanation. Oh, foolish me. ;)

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

Yes indeed. The bacterium infects the brain, causing an irrational desire to spread wealth around, coupled with compulsive chanting of "Hope! Change! Yes We Can!" The only known treatment is repeated whackings with a clue bat.

The scientific name for it is Bacillus L0S-3R-D0M

re: #140 infidel Alan
From the link:
"It seems Noah solved the problem of fitting dinosaurs into his vessel by only taking baby dinosaurs."
[Link: www.scientificblogging.com...]

Hadn't heard that one. I would have thought eggs would be more convenient.

Panspermia is a highly unlikely theory of natural life dispersion.

re: #130 realwest

Well ya know, Moe
And yes, I do believe Creationism should not be taught in publically funded schools as part of a science curricula, but I do object to the idea that faith has been "reduced" to anything.

Well you have to think of the unfragmented reality that people inhabited in previous centuries, where religion still had its balls and could explain globally who we are and where we came from. With the Pope, Hawking was in the driver's seat. Compare this to Galileo's dealings with the Inquisition. I'm not waxing nostalgic for the Inquisition, I'm just noting how religion no longer gets to serve as a holistic view of our world that is equally valid and potent in all spheres of reality.

re: #142 pat

Hiya Pat! I haven't been posting much lately, but I miss very little here. This whole election thing has me laying low and watching. School's kicked up bigtime also, but I'm hanging in there!

Good to see you. I hope all's well in your little corner of the world. :-)

re: #145 Palandine

I fell in love when Mal kicked the obstinate bad guy in to the running engine... (i.e. "I'm gonna hunt you down etc..." KICK... SPLATTER) Very reminiscent of Indiana Jones shooting the guy with the sword.

Vegetarian Lesbian Dinosaur? Liketalikapuss.

re: #146 pablito

That's pretty great, really. Kind of a Shakespearian irony there.

re: #150 pat

Panspermia is a highly unlikely theory of natural life dispersion.

For me it just pushes back the ultimate question of where/when did the first life come from.

re: #119 pink freud

I agree it went better than I feared. The opening was not bad and to be fair, Ben Affleck did a helluva performance of Olbermann. McCain gets out unscathed. Acouple of more shots at Sarah but we have all been there done that...

re: #149 jaunte

Silly you. As opposed to leaving the bad boys on the dock.

re: #144 gmsc

Loved his Connections series. Learned a lot about how things came together to what we see today.

re: #144 gmsc

Just because it's both relevant and cool to watch, check out this episode of James Burke's "The Day The Universe Changed", called "Infinitely Reasonable":

Come to think of it, the "Fit To Rule" episode is also good, and relevant:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

re: #153 Dan G.

I like that as much as

"You might as well just shoot me now" *CLICK* "Or...we could talk more"

re: #141 realwest

Um, McCain - according to them - is down 5 points to Obama - what the hell kind of "move" is that?

maybe because Obanal's been consistently overrated by about 7% in most of his contests?

re: #159 pat

In a pinch, scrambled eggs.

On the other side of the coin: for the first time ever Nature has endorsed a political candidate - Barack Obama. Religion doesn't belong in Science class, but Politics doesn't belong in science mags.

re: #134 Killgore Trout

T-rex ate my coconuts!

Baby dinosaurs! Of course! That explains everything!

Life in the Great Ice Age!

re: #160 BlueCanuck

Loved his Connections series. Learned a lot about how things came together to what we see today.

You can find just about every episode of all his series on YouTube, courtesy of JamesBurkeFan.

re: #142 pat

Of the best nic ever. Cool.

"filetandrelease" is my current favorite nic. I giggle every time I see it.

re: #153 Dan G.

I fell in love when Mal kicked the obstinate bad guy in to the running engine... (i.e. "I'm gonna hunt you down etc..." KICK... SPLATTER) Very reminiscent of Indiana Jones shooting the guy with the sword.

"He who lives by the sword gets shot by he who doesn't." --tagline

The popular vote polls mean very little, if anything. Its all about electoral votes.

What Really Happened to the Dinosaurs?

re: #166 Charles

So that's where my coconuts went. Thanks.

What?.... Catholics are not Christians? ..... I swear I have never heard that before ...they didn't teach me that in catechism classes ...

No seriously ... I have never heard that before ...I have only been in two other church services that were not Catholic mass so I guess I just never heard it ...Why do people say that?

re: #150 pat

As far as I'm concerned it's a possibility, that's all....and as you say probably not a very likely one.

re: #55 Mich-again

What a pair. The Pope and Stephen Hawking.

In a completely secular world there would never be a Stephen Hawking. Prolonging such a fragile life wouldn't be worth all that effort and cost.

re: #128 Mich-again

There is a huge rift between going to extraordinary means to preserving a life and killing it. You made that leap, not me.

Okay. I took it to an extreme. I don't like the assumption that a secular world view sees human life strictly in term of dollar signs, as I interpreted from your first post. I find that an offensive stereotype and overreacted. Sorry.

re: #165 Thanos

I strongly agree. Science (the mag.) has been letting politics creep in as well, disgusting.

re: #154 Racer X

This deserves to be the #1 comment on LGF.

re: #153 Dan G.

I fell in love when Mal kicked the obstinate bad guy in to the running engine... (i.e. "I'm gonna hunt you down etc..." KICK... SPLATTER) Very reminiscent of Indiana Jones shooting the guy with the sword.

And every single member of that cast was hot.

Adam Baldwin as Jayne Cobb. Man. A conservative, and not a Baldwin brother, but extremely hot.

/Palandine's a girl :)

re: #152 pink freud

It is little. Little but fine. Waiting for an Obamabot deciding that everyone doesn't need a break and they have plans to take money and tax wealth (as opposed to income). Anyone remember when the Clinton Bots floated that idea from the Brits?

OT - McCain is on SNL tonight. It just started with a fairly thorough roasting of Biden and Murtha.

(and an asteroid hit the Earth 60M years ago and killed the dinosaurs)

The Real Reason Dinosaurs Became Extinct

Back on topic. As a devout practicing Catholic, I have nothing I can add to Christ's Vicar. Pope Benedict makes tremendous sense. No quibble here.

re: #171 Charles

What Really Happened to the Dinosaurs?

This is supposed to be taken serious? I look at this and think it is an Onion or Iowahawk tome, pure satire.

re: #179 Palandine

Guessed as much ;) The girls were hot. Dan G. is a man ;)

re: #171 Charles

Have any with dinosaurs juxtaposed with a couple of blond haired and blue eyed cavemen?
/

re: #5 Charles

ROFLMAO

Firefly was FULL of great scenes, and great quotes.

"Some people juggle geese!"

re: #170 Mich-again

The popular vote polls mean very little, if anything. Its all about electoral votes.

Fun facts about the electoral college:

• After the election, the electors, selected by their respective states in numerous ways, will meet on December 15 to officially cast their votes. It is this vote that will actually be reported to Congress, and determine the president. Your vote on election day only determines the candidate your state's electors are pledged to vote for.

• There is no federal law requiring electors to vote for the candidate to which they're pledged. If an elector votes for a candidate other than the one they've pledged to vote for, they're deemed a "faithless elector". Only 24 states have laws punishing faithless electors. Only 1 state, Michigan, actually nullifies the vote of the faithless elector. (Technically speaking, the popular vote could be split 50/50 between the democratic and republican candidates, but if 270 or more electors decide they're going to be faithless electors in favor of, say, Bob Barr, then he would win the presidency.)

• The electoral college actually votes separately for president and vice-president. Again, technically speaking, this means it is possible to have, say, an Obama/Palin administration, or a McCain/Biden administration. Due to the number of electors this would require, and the resulting outcry, this is highly unlikely.

• Due to one faithless elector, in 2004, democratic vice-presidential candidate John Edwards actually recieved 1 Minnesotan electoral vote for president. It is believed that this was an error, especially as all of Minnesota's 2004 electoral votes for vice-president went to John Edwards, but since it's a secret ballot, we'll never know who cast the vote. Who knows? Maybe 1 Minnesotan was optimistic about John Edwards winning and being his own vice-president.

• In 1984, one Illinois elector, who was pledged to vote for Reagan as president and George H.W. Bush as vice president, cast their vote for Reagan for president as pledged, but then cast their electoral vote for Geraldine Ferraro (Walter Mondale's democratic vice-presidential running mate) as Vice-President. Due to the confusion this caused, the ballot was re-taken, and Bush won Illinois unanimously for vice-president in this one. If they had left it as it originally was, Ferraro would've had more electoral votes than Mondale!

re: #184 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is supposed to be taken serious? I look at this and think it is an Onion or Iowahawk tome, pure satire.

It's not only serious, they have dozens of books in that vein.

re: #166 Charles

Baby dinosaurs! Of course! That explains everything!

Life in the Great Ice Age!

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #439,937 in Books

/fringe

Actually I do have one question. How can we explain the recent evolution of PUMA'S?

...

re: #169 NomadOfNorad

"If someone tries to kill you, you kill him right back."
*******
"She SHOT you."
"Yeah, a little."

re: #149 jaunte

From the link:
"It seems Noah solved the problem of fitting dinosaurs into his vessel by only taking baby dinosaurs."
[Link: www.scientificblogging.com...]

Hadn't heard that one. I would have thought eggs would be more convenient.

Uhm, the dinosaurs missed the boat, just like the unicorns.

re: #181 RTLM

OT - McCain is on SNL tonight. It just started with a fairly thorough roasting of Biden and Murtha.

(and an asteroid hit the Earth 60M years ago and killed the dinosaurs)

Now, I realize Murtha is old, but . . .

re: #191 Killian Bundy

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #439,937 in Books

/fringe

Right, I know you like to say that.

It's so "fringe" we have a vice presidential candidate who believes in it.

Question:

Imaam, can you please tell me if it is impermissible to believe that there were dinosaurs on the earth before Adaam and Eve were created?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah created Adam (peace be upon him) on a Friday, the sixth day from the beginning of creation. Some texts mention what was created on the previous five days, in brief and general terms, but as to the details of what was created, Allaah knows best about that. Questions like this, on which no belief or deeds are to be based, are just meaningless distractions that are of no benefit. Faith does not increase or decrease according to whether one believes in dinosaurs or not. It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade us to occupy ourselves with things that cause confusion and are not clear. We also know that people differ in their views as to whether these dinosaurs existed or they are just figments of the imagination. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

/Don't ask questions, Infidel!

Your text to link...re: #186 Gus 802

Have any with dinosaurs juxtaposed with a couple of blond haired and blue eyed cavemen?
/

re: #171 Charles

It sure ain't pretty what happens when you try to make science compatible with biblical literalism.

re: #100 Charles

Irreducible complexity! Vegetarian dinosaurs! Creationists are persecuted by the scientific establishment! One species has never evolved into another! Fossil record incomplete! Gaps! Gaps gaps gaps!

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics makes evolution impossible! A tornado in a junkyard can't put together a Rolls Royce! Scientists are stumped by the Cambrian Explosion! Punctuated equilibrium is the "hopeful monster" theory--you have to have two members of a species born with exactly the same mutation somehow find each other!

Just watched McCain on SNL and he was superb!

re: #190 Charles

It's not only serious, they have dozens of books in that vein.

I feel my IQ dropping just contemplating that.

re: #193 Charles

Looks like Eve shaved her legs and plucked her eyebrows more than my ex-girlfriend. You think she'd at least have a unibrow.

/

re: #202 capitalistbaby

Just watched McCain on SNL and he was superb!

It was risky but it may have paid dividends...

re: #165 Thanos

On the other side of the coin: for the first time ever Nature has endorsed a political candidate - Barack Obama. Religion doesn't belong in Science class, but Politics doesn't belong in science mags.

True that. But some scientists rely on public funding for their research so the relationship between politics and science is inevitable.

re: #181 RTLM

Aren't we getting hit by another one tomorrow? I saw the headline on AOL--large object set to hit earth. I didn't read it. If I'm gonna die, I'll spend my time here, not reading AOL news.

re: #151 Moe Katz
Well hell, WAAAY back in the day, The Church (and for you purists out there, I'm talking both the Catholic Church and the Church of England) was a significant force in everyday lives. Folks didn't have TV (and there are time when I DO wonder whether or not TV was a scientific "advancement"! LOL) or newspapers and got most of their "news" not from the proverbial town crier, but from their local Priest.
That being said, however "the" Church has had decreasing impact and hence decreasing power over peoples' lives, as lots of people have found "the Church" to be irrelevent to their everday lives.
That science had something to do with that is true, but it doesn't change the fact that faith still comes from the heart, not the brain.

re: #195 Rancher

Uhm, the dinosaurs missed the boat, just like the unicorns.

There's a song about that. Well, the unicorn part of it, anyway.

re: #202 capitalistbaby

Just watched McCain on SNL and he was superb!

When he lets himself be funny, he's great.

re: #204 Gus 802

Looks like Eve shaved her legs and plucked her eyebrows more than my ex-girlfriend. You think she'd at least have a unibrow.

/

Maybe Lillith had a unibrow, and Adam didn't see anything wrong with it until Eve and her 2 separate eyebrows came along.

re: #202 capitalistbaby

Just watched McCain on SNL and he was superb!

Absolutely!

re: #197 Charles

Right, I know you like to say that.

It's so "fringe" we have a vice presidential candidate who believes in it.

As long as she believes in my freedom to disagree and doesn't try to force creationism into schools.

I still think the bad boys were left on the dock. But what about the swimmers?
[Link: www.dinosaurfact.net...]

Here is a funny picture of Pope Benedict.

Just to keep this thread from bogging down/going nuts.

Good Night All.

re: #195 Rancher

Uhm, the dinosaurs missed the boat, just like the unicorns.

Ah yes, this ones for you.

re: #173 jacksontn

What?.... Catholics are not Christians? ..... I swear I have never heard that before ...they didn't teach me that in catechism classes ...

No seriously ... I have never heard that before ...I have only been in two other church services that were not Catholic mass so I guess I just never heard it ...Why do people say that?

I had it said to me when I was a kid. They said it was because of infant baptism. I said, "Well, that's what Confirmation is about." But--I didn't convert anyone.

re: #213 Tigger2005

As long as she believes in my freedom to disagree and doesn't try to force creationism into schools.

I don't think there's any actual evidence that she believes that crap, beyond the one LA Slimes anonymous source.

re: #197 Charles

Yep- so fringe that a biblical literalist was trying to get me to attend a discussion on Intelligent Design today.

re: #211 gmsc

That's out of my area of expertise.

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

When he lets himself be funny, he's great.

When he is not being filtered by the MSM and allowed to be seen (relatively) unedited we get to see the real man, not the MSM homunculus.

re: #192 wright1

Actually I do have one question. How can we explain the recent evolution of PUMA'S?

They refused to mate with the Obama cult that has taken over most of the Democratic party and became an isolated population. Given enough time, they will become a separate species.

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

He's a very funny guy, I wish we would have seen this side of him in the debates.

Evolution at work:[Link: news.nationalgeographic.com...]

re: #163 redc1c4 Huh, I'm sorry - I usually don't pay a lot of attention to polls - but I thought Drudge had McCain UP by one point yesterday - and I thought most reputable polls had pretty much always shown them as being roughly 4 points apart.

re: #175 CyanSnowHawk

Some of the very best people I know have no use for any religion. I don't hold that against them one bit. But I do wonder if there had never been religion along the way if civilization would have gotten to this point. Its not an easy question to answer.

re: #219 Sharmuta

Yep- so fringe that a biblical literalist was trying to get me to attend a discussion on Intelligent Design today.

If I had been in your shoes I would prefer to have tried to drill holes in my skull with a spoon.

re: #220 Gus 802

That's out of my area of expertise.

I can understand that. There are so few good photos of Adam, Eve, or Lillith.

We have a Presidential candidate that thinks The Constitution is a suggestion, subject to his greater intellect.

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that atheists will only talk about religious leaders in a good way when it suits their "there is no God" point of view?

This is a true story ... some creationist posting online said that due to the second law of thermodynamics, evolution can't work, because you would have to have an enormous power source and he couldn't imagine what that might be.

I've actually dug fossils here in the Mojave, while taking a a course. Camel and horse ancestors. As old as 1.7 million years. re: #151 Moe Katz

Well you have to think of the unfragmented reality that people inhabited in previous centuries, where religion still had its balls and could explain globally who we are and where we came from. With the Pope, Hawking was in the driver's seat. Compare this to Galileo's dealings with the Inquisition. I'm not waxing nostalgic for the Inquisition, I'm just noting how religion no longer gets to serve as a holistic view of our world that is equally valid and potent in all spheres of reality.

Over the history of humankind the role of explaining who we are and where we came from has shifted from the magician to the priest to the scientist. Sort of an evolution.

Well Armed Civilian Security Force:

Obamanation 1984:

re: #208 realwest

Well hell, WAAAY back in the day, The Church (and for you purists out there, I'm talking both the Catholic Church and the Church of England) was a significant force in everyday lives. Folks didn't have TV (and there are time when I DO wonder whether or not TV was a scientific "advancement"! LOL) or newspapers and got most of their "news" not from the proverbial town crier, but from their local Priest.
That being said, however "the" Church has had decreasing impact and hence decreasing power over peoples' lives, as lots of people have found "the Church" to be irrelevent to their everday lives.
That science had something to do with that is true, but it doesn't change the fact that faith still comes from the heart, not the brain.

Oh, sure, no argument there. Religion is possible even without any belief whatsoever in the supernatural. My point, really, was that when we say religious faith is compatible with scientific views of evolution or cosmogony, we are talking about a very restricted and circumscribed form of religion, a shadow of its former self, as it were.

It's one thing for a scientist to admit that there are theories or facts which science has yet to prove or disprove. It is quite another for a scientist to accept as absolute truth a theory or a fact on faith alone.
The former is scientific honesty; but the latter seems to require the suspension of a core value of science - the requirement to withhold belief pending objectively verifiable and observable facts and conclusions necessarily flowing from those facts.

Therefore I can see a scientist being an agnostic, but not a true "believer".

What am I missing?

Here we go.

re: #226 Mich-again

It is easy to answer.

Christianity saved western civilization after the collapse of Rome.

Incidentally, I am going to church tomorrow for the first time in over 30 years. I'm visiting my dad, so it's just a continuation of hanging out with him. He said it's changed so much that I won't recognize it.

re: #231 Tigger2005

Did you tell him to step outside in day time and look up?

It usually takes about 200 comments.

re: #227 FurryOldGuyJeans

First I asked him if he was a literalist- he said yes. Then I asked if he thought the earth was 6000 years old. Odd- he didn't want to answer me on that, so I told him good luck in convincing others on YEC.

re: #225 realwest

Huh, I'm sorry - I usually don't pay a lot of attention to polls - but I thought Drudge had McCain UP by one point yesterday - and I thought most reputable polls had pretty much always shown them as being roughly 4 points apart.

Upon further review, the Drudge poll was a red herring....it was one day of a 3 day sample....over the 3 day sample Obama was up 52-42.

re: #197 Charles

Right, I know you like to say that.

It's so "fringe" we have a vice presidential candidate who believes in it.

I haven't seen a linky to her believing in dinosaurs waalking with men on a 6000 year old earth. Apparently you have one.

/very few of the millions of Christians in this country even remotely believe in that

re: #235 Spare O'Lake

A theory in civil society is vastly different from one in science. There is no contradiction or anything that needs to be reconciled.

re: #162 esch

I like that as much as

"You might as well just shoot me now" *CLICK* "Or...we could talk more"

Mal: You want to run this ship?

Jane: Yes!

Mal: Well...you can't!

re: #235 Spare O'Lake

You are missing Thomas Aquinas.

Goodnight again.

re: #237 Ojoe

Or maybe Christianity helped cause the collapse of Rome. I don't know. Maybe civilization would even be further along if there had never been Religion. But it is what it is and here we are.

Realwest. You are correct. And it appears that Gallup all of a sudden changed its definition of "likely" voters, pushing Obama up by 10.

Today is my 4 year anniversary of being a registered lizard. The 4 year anniversary of my first comment is in January I think.

Thanks for everything, Charles.

re: #240 Charles

It usually takes about 200 comments.

You may have thrown that off with your own denunciations earlier (please, let's hope!).

re: #230 Joe Six Pack

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that atheists will only talk about religious leaders in a good way when it suits their "there is no God" point of view?

How does Pope Benedict's statement suit an atheists' "there is no God" point of view?

And your statement is nonsense. Pope John Paul II is one of my great heroes.

re: #193 Charles

Dinosaurs of Eden!

Eden must have been in Polynesia judging from that flower in Eve's hair.

Looks Hawaiian or Tahitian.

re: #247 Mich-again

Religion brings you the 10 Commandments which are the rules that work, otherwise bloodshed and poverty.

Really goodnight,
back tomorrow.

Yeah, the age of the Earth gets them stuttering. Hard to justify that silly thing when the Jewish calendar goes about that far back, and discusses times before Jews.

re: #247 Mich-again

True. And the basic fact that mankind evolved with these religions. We can't deny it since it is our history and current status. It would be the same if I denied my early history as a very young Catholic. It's there.

re: #239 BlueCanuck

Did you tell him to step outside in day time and look up?

I would have, but I heard about this second or third hand, after he'd already received a couple dozen responses. I did check out the thread and verified it, though.

re: #245 SurferDoc

Mal: You want to run this ship?

Jane: Yes!

Mal: Well...you can't!

You know what the chain of command is? It's the rutting chain I go and beat you with until you realize who's in command here.

re: #250 FurryOldGuyJeans

You may have thrown that off with your own denunciations earlier (please, let's hope!).

Too late.

Enjoy the extra hour of sleep tonight everyone! Out.

re: #251 Tigger2005

How does Pope Benedict's statement suit an atheists' "there is no God" point of view?

And your statement is nonsense. Pope John Paul II is one of my great heroes.

Pope John Paul II is one of your heroes? Dang, I guess that makes me wrong then.

re: #208 realwest

...it doesn't change the fact that faith still comes from the heart, not the brain.

Jewish scholars have made religion a study by the brain for 3300 years, but science is still accepted by Orthodox Judaism as a study of its own.

One of Judaism's greatest sages and philosophers (Maimonidies) was also a doctor.

He lived in the 12th Century.

re: #247 Mich-again

Or maybe Christianity helped cause the collapse of Rome.

From some of my reading of history, I believe that the Roman empire in the west was on the way out before Christianity came along. In fact, it's very possible that Christianity in the early times managed to preserve the light of civilization. Look at the Byzantium empire, or as it started the Eastern Roman empire.