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Obama Wants 'Price Signals' to 'Change Behavior'

Politics | Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 9:45:32 am PST

In an interview on Iowa Public TV in 2007, Barack Obama advocated sending “price signals” to middle class consumers in order to “change their behavior.”

“Price signals” being an Orwellian code word for punitive taxes and fees. And Obama doesn’t seem to care much who it would hurt.

Youtube Video

(Hat tip: Thanos.)

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505 comments

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1 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:46:01am

The rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

ACORN was founded by a guy named Wade Rathke. In 1969, he was in the SDS, and on the Dohrn-Ayers side when the SDS split up. Most of the people in that faction then renamed themselves "Weatherman," later the Weather Underground.

I can find no solid evidence that Rathke became an active member of the Weathermen, but many people suspect he was in fact a member. If not, he was very close to being a member, since he was a political ally of Dohrn and Ayers at the moment they formed the group.

So, basically, ACORN is itself another ideological descendent of the Weather Underground.

And Obama probably had his first "community organizing" job with ACORN when he moved to Chicago.

Seriously: Could this ALL be one vast coincidence?

Just more evidence that Ayers guided Obama's early career.

2 Chicken Kiev  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:46:13am

I get the signal! I vote NO!

3 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:46:36am

Smokes up to $60.00/carton. Basil Hayden's up to $150.00/fifth.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

4 VegasRick  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:46:51am

No longer available?

5 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:47:17am

“Price signals” = punishment for actually earning money.

6 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:48:05am

Obama wants to punish Middle America for living too well.

And for not voting Democrat enough...

7 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:48:05am

BHO wouldn't know the free market if it bit him on his commie-pinko ass.

8 wildcat84  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:48:13am

I have a new term to coin for this Obama generation of the new left..

The "NeoComs" (just to annoy them, I HATED being given the term NeoCON, never left the Reagan revolution) :)

They are Neo Communists. Stalinism with a superficially nice face.

9 Shug  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:48:24am

Obama costs too much.

don't buy it

10 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:49:10am

Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin are high fiving in hell right now.

11 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:49:10am

Reminding people that Obama wants to use the heavy hand of government to influence people's behavior to conform to Obama's "ideal" standard is, again, racist Charles!

/Again, really, really sarc.

12 wildcat84  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:49:26am

re: #6 Spiny Norman

Obama wants to punish Middle America for living too well.

And for not voting Democrat enough...

No, that's your REWARD for voting Democrat too much :)

ugh

13 NoSubmission  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:49:38am

None of this is helped by the look of smack smug arrogance painted across his face.

14 looking closely  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:49:45am

I'm going to send Senator Obama my own "signal" on Tuesday.

15 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:49:55am

Huh? "Change my behavior"? Bub, if you want me to buy nothing beyond the essentials ever again, keep it up.

Think I'll go buy myself that iPod I've been considering now...

16 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:50:08am

Keep your commie-pinko mitts off of my light bulbs and thermostat, BHO.

17 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:50:16am

re: #1 zombie

"The long march through the institutions", *sighs*.

Thanks for your great work, Zombie.

18 wildcat84  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:50:36am

re: #7 MandyManners

BHO wouldn't know the free market if it bit him on his commie-pinko ass.

He's never lived in it. All his life he's gotten privileges from his radical friends

19 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:50:43am

This coming from the same guy who said that it was good that we were paying so much for gas. He said that it would make us more like Europe and think twice about how much we drive.

20 Opilio  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:50:56am

Here's hoping "price signals" will change voting behavior in 2010.

21 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:11am

re: #18 wildcat84

He's never lived in it. All his life he's gotten privileges from his radical friends

Wonder if Ayers will get a dascha.

22 Chicken Kiev  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:18am

Behavior modification. Re-education.

Cultural Revolution.

Ring a bell?

23 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:28am

re: #13 NoSubmission

None of this is helped by the look of smack smug arrogance painted across his face.

He can't help that. It's natural.///

The most smug I have ever seen him look is during the second debate when he lectured us all on preventative health care. From an underweight chain smoker, no less.

24 lone_wolf_in_illinois  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:37am

I am now becoming resigned to the thought of "re-education" soon.
/

25 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:38am

Charles must be expecting a huge load. The avatars are gone.

26 Shug  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:45am
A lot of us who can afford it can pay more per unit of electricity !

WTF !


So I'll have to subsidize the bums who sit on their asses all day ?

27 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:47am

re: #20 Opilio

Here's hoping "price signals" will change voting behavior in 2010.

Obama IS Jimmy Carter with a tan.

28 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:53am

wow, that was fast: "video no longer available"

29 Thanos  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:51:56am

This goes back to the same sixties radical roots where it was determined that Energy=bad. It's the engine of capitalist imperialism you know. Jeremy Rifkin and E.F. Schumacher are the creators of the left's "just conserve because we are all doomed anyway" real energy policy.

30 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:52:36am

Does this involve ankle bracelets and 10,000 volt messages?

31 Opilio  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:52:36am

re: #25 MandyManners

Charles must be expecting a huge load. The avatars are gone.

I see a picture of a huge load at the top of this thread.

32 Charles  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:52:42am

Traffic is rising, and I expect it to continue, so the avatars are disabled.

33 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:52:47am

re: #19 lone_wolf_in_illinois


I hate people that say "we (the US) should be like Europe". Why? Fascism and Communism both have their roots from Europe.

/And the idiots that say gas should cost as much as in Europe don't realize that Europe's a bit smaller than the US, with the populations more concentrated.

34 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:52:50am

re: #26 Shug

WTF !

So I'll have to subsidize the bums who sit on their asses all day ?

Exactly. It's your "patriotic" duty.

35 Charles  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:52:55am

The video is still there...

36 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:53:03am

re: #31 Opilio

I see a picture of a huge load at the top of this thread.

SPEW.

37 ClosetConservative  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:53:06am

I find myself overcome with a feeling of utter helplessness. Could this guy possibly be worse than I had imagined?

Dear God.

[Link: secure.johnmccain.com...]

Make. Calls. Now.

38 Elcid  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:53:08am

Are these "signals" going to be the standard Red, Yellow, Green, or just ALL RED?

OH, you can forget these "signals" being Red, White and Blue...See what I mean?

39 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:53:11am

I know now that my behavior has been bad, and incorrect. I need for the One to signal me how to change it. Every day, in every way, I must strive to be more like what He wants me to be.

Pass the Kool-Aid!

40 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:53:22am

re: #32 Charles

Traffic is rising, and I expect it to continue, so the avatars are disabled.

Cutbacks. Already.

41 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:54:04am

re: #11 mitthrawnurdo

Reminding people that Obama wants to use the heavy hand of government to influence people's behavior to conform to Obama's "ideal" standard is, again, racist Charles!

You know it! Charles is linking to Obama talking about coal. And what color is coal! Total, total racism at work here.

/

42 Robert Arvanitis  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:54:22am

Do not allow the left to steal a fine capitalist term.

"Price signal" is what a free market sends back to show demand, stimulate supply, and punish government interference.

What Obama wants to send is a "dirigiste tax distortion..."


(PS: Love the fact that spell check here does not recognize "Obama" and permits me to "ignore" !)

43 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:54:27am

re: #33 mitthrawnurdo

I hate people that say "we (the US) should be like Europe". Why? Fascism and Communism both have their roots from Europe.

/And the idiots that say gas should cost as much as in Europe don't realize that Europe's a bit smaller than the US, with the populations more concentrated.

Facts, shmacts.

Actually, I've read of policies that want to concentrate Americans into tight urban areas.

44 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:54:36am

re: #32 Charles

Traffic is rising, and I expect it to continue, so the avatars are disableddifferently-abled.

45 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:54:50am

Send the commies a signal on Tuesday...

Vote for McCain.

Our country will suffer terribly under an Obama, Pelosi, Reid trinity of communism.

46 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:54:57am

re: #32 Charles

Traffic is rising

I suspect the next three days will be a record high-tide.

47 Shug  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:03am

I just went and turned on all the lights in my house

GFY Obama !

48 thebigolddog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:05am

Oh, it gets worse for Barry. In the same interview about bankrupting Coal plants:

"Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad."

Obama: I’ll make energy prices “skyrocket”

49 NeoKong  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:08am

It just never stops with this guy.
This is like the 100th time we got him in his own words saying how he want to screw us over and I only ever see it online.
The guy is a freakin' socialist who can't wait to get his hands on America.

The media in this country has truly died.

50 NoSubmission  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:19am

re: #23 arethusa

He can't help that. It's natural.///

The most smug I have ever seen him look is during the second debate when he lectured us all on preventative health care. From an underweight chain smoker, no less.


Or the time he lectured Americans about clinging to the English language when he doesn't even speak Spanish!

51 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:31am

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Oh no, you're totally right! How could I have missed the connection? I must still cling to guns, religion, and Mandy's moxie way too tightly still!

/Forgive me, great O.

52 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:36am

And what price signals would the poor have? Or would they get free energy under Obama on the backs of taxpayers?

53 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:55:53am

re: #42 Robert Arvanitis

Do not allow the left to steal a fine capitalist term.

See previous thread... he's doing the same thing by breezily painting "cap and trade" as a "market" solution.

Who knew that Friedrich Hayek and Adam Smith were "community organizers"?

54 cobalt blue  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:56:02am

The biggest area for Obama's use of "price signals" to change behavior, obviously, is going to be in the field of government-funded health insurance. Namely, if you wish to have health insurance, you must give up risky behavior ___. Government socialized medicine will be the instrument of massive social behavioral controls.

55 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:56:04am

re: #35 Charles

got it run after reloading Firefox

56 kynna  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:56:17am

This is so disgusting. He would never have been the dem candidate if the press had done their jobs, much less faved to win the presidency.

That writer who lamented the loss his pride at naming his profession as 'journalism' was onto something. Anyone in a media career should be too ashamed to show their faces in public.

57 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:56:29am

re: #33 mitthrawnurdo

If we'd wanted Europe, we'd have stayed there.

58 Shug  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:56:39am

re: #52 rightymouse

And what price signals would the poor have? Or would they get free energy under Obama on the backs of taxpayers?


exactly.
a utilities credit.

so those of you making under 250,000 a year won't have to pay for your electricity and gas.

the patriotic americans earning over 250,000 gotcha covered

59 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:56:46am

re: #52 rightymouse

See "Mugabe economic policy" for details.

60 Bobibutu  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:01am

re: #40 FightingBack

Cutbacks. Already.

lol

61 Cognito  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:06am

Man, that's disturbing stuff.

62 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:07am

re: #49 NeoKong

Not exactly. They want it, too.

63 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:19am

re: #46 zombie

I suspect the next three days will be a record high-tide.

But we will remember this as the time that the LGF traffic tide stopped rising, and the blogosphere began to heal!

Once, you know, President Obama shuts down Charles via the Internet Audacity of Fairness Act of 2010.

64 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:21am

re: #54 cobalt blue

The biggest area for Obama's use of "price signals" to change behavior, obviously, is going to be in the field of government-funded health insurance. Namely, if you wish to have health insurance, you must give up risky behavior ___. Government socialized medicine will be the instrument of massive social behavioral controls.

That's it exactly.

I'm gonna' retreat to the corner and cling to my bottle of Basil Hayden's.

65 Opilio  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:24am

re: #32 Charles

Traffic is rising, and I expect it to continue, so the avatars are disabled display-challenged.

66 Jimmah  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:27am

This seems to be a pattern in Obamas statements - 'we must change human behaviour to fit our enlightened policies'...

Looks like heavy handed socialism to me...

67 VegasRick  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:33am

re: #61 Cognito

Man, that's disturbing stuff.

It won't play for me.

68 runrabbitrun  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:48am

re: #24 lone_wolf_in_illinois

I am now becoming resigned to the thought of "re-education" soon.
/

Do any other lizards have a feeling that somehow Michelle O might play a significant part in bringing down the zer0's Court of Fools in DC, if heaven forbid it comes to pass?

I mentioned at the end of a dead thread that I could not believe that Michelle's political ambitions could be so easily kept in check - she would form alliances and make outreaches to radical organizations that would cause tremendous pressure within that administration, eventually causing breakdowns.

Or maybe Barack and Michelle's combined egos would be so massive for their place in history, that they'd feel confident enough to give the finger to more pragmatic advisors and work together on a transformational program so far out on the edge, that they don't see the end coming....

69 Fearless Fred  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:49am

re: #1 zombie

Hi Zombie -- congratulations on making NRO yesterday!

Obama -- arrogant elitist marxist America hater. It'll be a wild 4 years if he's actually elected.

70 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:50am

re: #54 cobalt blue


Isn't that already done in Europe?

71 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:51am

Where does the use of "price signals" end? If Dear Leader 0 doesn't like an industry, does it get spanked by these "price signals"? Couldn't this cause workers to get fired?

Comrade 0, I live in the country, where I bitterly cling to my guns and Holy Orthodox church. I drive an SUV because getting through Michigan lake effect snow won't happen in a Cooper Mini or Citroen.

72 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:57:52am

re: #58 Shug

exactly.
a utilities credit.

so those of you making under 250,000 a year won't have to pay for your electricity and gas.

the patriotic americans earning over 250,000 gotcha covered

This man is freaking dangerous.

73 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:09am

re: #59 jaunte

See "Mugabe economic policy" for details.


No kidding.

74 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:10am

re: #57 FightingBack

Damn straight!

75 looking closely  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:21am

re: #56 kynna

This is so disgusting. He would never have been the dem candidate if
the press had done their jobs, much less faved to win the presidency.

That
writer who lamented the loss his pride at naming his profession as
'journalism' was onto something. Anyone in a media career should be too
ashamed to show their faces in public.

The fawning press certainly helped, but his organization stacking the (stupid Dem) caucuses probably had a lot to with it as well.

Had the press simply vetted Edwards (apparently his affair was somewhat of an open secret), that might have been enough to tip the primaries to Hilary Clinton .

76 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:28am

Drudge needs to post this link directly below the other.
please send to him everybody.

77 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:41am

re: #67 VegasRick

It won't play for me.

Try this.

78 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:45am

re: #73 rightymouse

Nee money? Just print more.

79 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:58:57am

Need!

80 VegasRick  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:13am

re: #77 MandyManners

Try this.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thank you!

81 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:19am

Wait...Obama just said we drive our SUVs too much - but back in the whole McCain car controversy, it was revealed that Obama drove a Ford Escape.

(OK, so it's a hybrid. Is he going to help make hybrids more affordable to those of us who aren't millionaires?)

82 ClosetConservative  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:21am

Could you stand having the blood of my country on my hands for not standing up and doing something NOW?

[Link: secure.johnmccain.com...]

Make calls! Go door-to-door!

83 ziggyelman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:24am

Man, this naked emperor news guy(or gal) is something else! Doing yeoman like work that the MSM can't bother with anymore. The one good thing of late....

84 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:32am

re: #68 runrabbitrun

She could run like Hill did.

85 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:43am

What amazes me is that this guy has been on the record saying things that would have AUTOMATICALLY disqualified anyone else before him to be President. Yet, he is poised to take that job in a few days (maybe). What is it about this guy that everyone loves so much. People should read what he says, not listen to it....when you read his policies, you realize just how radical this guy is......I wonder what all these Obamatrons will do after he's elected and their paycheck starts getting smaller, their electric bills start getting higher, gas costs more, everything costs more....what will they do then? Cling to the Hope and Change mantra?

86 joekowalski247  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:43am

re: #63 Occasional Reader

But we will remember this as the time that the LGF traffic tide stopped rising, and the blogosphere began to heal!

Once, you know, President Obama shuts down Charles via the Internet Audacity of Fairness Act of 2010.

dont think it will take that long. not with Pelosi, Reid, Biden, and Obama in charge.

87 mama winger  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:48am

I am so gonna have it made if Obama gets elected. You guys are going to be paying all my bills for me. My health care, my gas and electric, my mortgage .........

What's not to love?

/

88 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 9:59:59am

re: #69 Fearless Fred

Hi Zombie -- congratulations on making NRO yesterday!

Really? Link?

89 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:00:03am

re: #68 runrabbitrun

Do any other lizards have a feeling that somehow Michelle O might play a significant part in bringing down the zer0's Court of Fools in DC, if heaven forbid it comes to pass?

I mentioned at the end of a dead thread that I could not believe that Michelle's political ambitions could be so easily kept in check - she would form alliances and make outreaches to radical organizations that would cause tremendous pressure within that administration, eventually causing breakdowns.

Or maybe Barack and Michelle's combined egos would be so massive for their place in history, that they'd feel confident enough to give the finger to more pragmatic advisors and work together on a transformational program so far out on the edge, that they don't see the end coming....

Brought down by a cluster-fuck?

90 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:00:14am

re: #78 jaunte

Nee money? Just print more.


YAY! INFLATION!
/

91 Shug  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:00:37am

It's Football time.
and
Beer O'Clock

have a great day lizards

92 Attaboid  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:01am

"Price signals" That is too much. In his mind he can control everything!

93 The Other Les  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:02am

ATLAS SHRUGGED was a work of fiction when I first read it two decades ago.

This idiot is turning it into a work of nonfiction.

94 Bobblehead  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:08am

I simply cannot believe that almost 8 years after 9/11 this country is on the verge of destroying itself by electing this smug b*****d. Judging from the size of Michelle's Waldorf room service bill, Obama excludes himself from any behavior changes.

95 JohnAdams  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:28am

re: #85 Desert Dog

What amazes me is that this guy has been on the record saying things that would have AUTOMATICALLY disqualified anyone else before him to be President. Yet, he is poised to take that job in a few days (maybe). What is it about this guy that everyone loves so much. People should read what he says, not listen to it....when you read his policies, you realize just how radical this guy is......I wonder what all these Obamatrons will do after he's elected and their paycheck starts getting smaller, their electric bills start getting higher, gas costs more, everything costs more....what will they do then? Cling to the Hope and Change mantra?

I think more than love for Obama it is a media-frenzy of hatred toward Bush for 8 years that has created the ripe climate for this Revolution of Clowns.

96 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:29am

arrrrrrrgh! Where was all this stuff weeks ago?

97 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:31am

Jesus, why are we just hearing this today? Why the hell didn't the MSM report this months ago, or during the primaries so the dems could have at least selected a better choice? Christ, this guy beat Hillary?
I am sick to my stomach over the thought of this guy being elected.
If he is elected, I shall only refer to him as "Beloved Leader". I don't want to be "Plumbered".

98 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:32am

re: #87 mama winger

I am so gonna have it made if Obama gets elected. You guys are going to be paying all my bills for me. My health care, my gas and electric, my mortgage .........

What's not to love?

/

Well, for openers, we'll have nothing to pay with....

99 Killian Bundy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:01:50am

Lord Numbnuts' policies will quickly become so onerous that major U.S. corporations will flee in droves to reincorporate overseas, just as a matter of due diligence.

/good luck pissing on Exxon after that

100 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:00am

re: #93 The Other Les

ATLAS SHRUGGED was a work of fiction when I first read it two decades ago.

This idiot is turning it into a work of nonfiction.

Sort of his blueprint. Must find my inner Dagne

101 Opilio  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:07am

re: #94 Bobblehead

I simply cannot believe that almost 8 years after 9/11 this country is on the verge of destroying itself by electing this smug b*****d. Judging from the size of Michelle's Waldorf room service bill, Obama excludes himself from any behavior changes.

Urban legend -- didn't happen.

102 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:10am

re: #81 arethusa

He has not driven that thing in quite a while.....I'd like to see him limo bills, even before he was candidate Obama

103 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:31am

The ONLY bright spot to me would be that the dipshit down the road who runs his ATV all over the land and up and down the road would not be able to pay for the gas and would stop fucking up every pretty day with the incessant whine and growl of the engine.

Nah. I can put up with that.

104 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:31am

re: #87 mama winger

You know the drill, Mama Winger. The big O wants people to think that way but if (and I mean if) he gets elected, it isn't going to go down like that. Capital will flee, the poor and the middle class will get shafted, and the ones that can afford to leave will.

105 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:45am

re: #94 Bobblehead

I simply cannot believe that almost 8 years after 9/11 this country is on the verge of destroying itself by electing this smug b*****d. Judging from the size of Michelle's Waldorf room service bill, Obama excludes himself from any behavior changes.

It turned out to be false.

106 SummerSong  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:02:46am

The hat tip for the video went to " . "

Can we call you dot? ;)

107 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:03:04am

A while back, the NRA did a show about gun control in Australia & England. The show highlighted how citizens in those countries cannot defend themselves and it had interviews with Aussies and Britons, highly effective, because you got the word straight from the source.

I cannot for the life of me fathom why Republicans and Libertarians haven't done the same thing, have Euros who have fled socialism tell their stories on You Tube.

108 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:03:11am

re: #94 Bobblehead

The bill may have been a hoax, but the ideologically pure are always excluded from sacrifice. Look at Bill "Commonwealth Edison" Ayers

109 ziggyelman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:03:53am

re: #96 Who Watches the Watchmen?

arrrrrrrgh! Where was all this stuff weeks ago?

exactly! Just imagine how pissed we all are going to be when the tribute video of the PLO guy(don't care to memorize his name)comes out, and it will, weeks or months from now, and no one can do a thing about it!

110 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:04:05am

re: #100 SpartanWoman

Who is John Galt?

/Not the biggest fan of Objectivism, but I'd prefer living under that than the socialist nightmare Obama and his friends have planned for us.

111 mama winger  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:04:09am

Okay guys - here's a challenge:

I'm going out to make calls for John McCain now. What are your plans for today ? What are you going to do? Is there a way you can make some calls, go door to door with flyers, man the stations at your local RNC HQ?

Give yourself two hours of concentrated effort and see what you can do, okay? There are only so many hours left. Make the most of your time.

Make a plan. Execute the plan. GO

see ya's later. I will expect a report :)

112 JohnAdams  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:04:13am

re: #104 mitthrawnurdo

You know the drill, Mama Winger. The big O wants people to think that way but if (and I mean if) he gets elected, it isn't going to go down like that. Capital will flee, the poor and the middle class will get shafted, and the ones that can afford to leave will.

see Great Britain.

113 The Other Les  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:04:23am

re: #66 Jimmah

This seems to be a pattern in Obamas statements - 'we must change human behaviour to fit our enlightened policies'...

Looks like heavy handed socialism to me...

All the Left has ever offered to the rest of Humanity are chains or death.

Practically all of their policies are a elaboration of the Stone Age practice of assaulting or killing other people and taking their stuff for themselves.

114 NC State of Mind  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:04:23am

"They are going to have to change the way they create power."

Ok, by your own admission, drilling for oil will take at least 10 years to have an effect. But you don't want more oil, more nuclear energy, or more coal. So whatever this completley undeveloped system you are talking about will take more than a decade to research, much less implement, and you will not let us use what we have in the meantime. Instead, I'm going to have to pay more because of your caps, but not only that, I'm going to have to take up the slack for those who don't pay their own.

I guess I'm just not compassionate enough to understand.

115 runrabbitrun  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:04:38am

re: #84 FightingBack

She could run like Hill did.

hmmm, Michelle's success in the next decade would be quite a stretch, considering that even the DNC has judged she best be kept 'behind the scenes' right now - her intensity, toughness and obvious radicalism are a bit scary intimidating.

116 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:05:05am

re: #109 ziggyelman

No one would do a thing about it now, either. Anointed is Anointed.

117 baxtrice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:05:22am

Bah, us stupid peasants can't be trusted to make the right decisions, let Government do it for us!
/sarc

In all seriousness, my right eye is twitching over the extreme amount of civil liberties and freewill that could be lost by Americans under an Obama Administration. My distaste for Obama's ideology grows significantly by day..

118 johngaltlives  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:05:27am

re: #110 mitthrawnurdo

Better to live in a society where you are rewarded for your efforts than in a reeducation camp.

119 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:05:38am

re: #109 ziggyelman

The press will pat themselves on the back for hiding it. They are happy with their subterfuge and will feel no shame

120 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:05:40am

re: #114 NC State of Mind


Well, that, and you seem like a bitter clinger. Unleash yourself and follow the O into the future, comrade!

121 ClosetConservative  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:05:53am

Folks:

No amount of hemming and hawing here is going to convince undecided voters to vote for McCain. There's a good chance that the majority of people here are solidly McCain. Videos like the one above are ammunition against Obama. Put together a pamphlet, go door-to-door, make some calls... Anything!

Electing McCain is a non-negotiable necessity.

122 lennysquiggy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:06:02am

Charles, I confess to not following your Creatonist posts as closely as your others... But would it be safe to say that Obama's supporters are somewhat Creatonist in their views of Barry? Rather than being the result of 150+ years of evolution of Marxist ideologies - recently adapted to the unforgiving (for marxists) ecosystem of America - they think Barry guy was just miraculously created by God to deliver us from evil.

You know, unless of course, Barry IS God?

Not sure if that made any sense. I think I'm gonna go put a flexi-straw in a coffee pot and see where it leads me.

123 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:06:05am

re: #81 arethusa

There aren't enough hybrids to keep the NYC taxi industry in business, so how and where are all the rest of the hybrids going to go... there simply aren't enough of them. And if you tax the bejeebus out of the coal industry, where is the power to run those plug in electrics that are supposed to be the cureall coming from?

124 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:06:17am

Like all good Marxists, Obama cannot intuit the consequences of his ideology.

Without wealth and free markets, societies are doomed.

Every Marxist 'utopia' has failed and millions have suffered and died.

Obama can't change that fact.

125 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:06:22am

re: #115 runrabbitrun

This is now. That will be Then.

126 The Other Les  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:06:27am

re: #71 Marlin925

Comrade 0, I live in the country, where I bitterly cling to my guns and Holy Orthodox church. I drive an SUV because getting through Michigan lake effect snow won't happen in a Cooper Mini or Citroen.


Hell, driving in the Upper Peninsula in a old Ford Pinto in early June isn't fun either.

127 Reluctant Democrat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:06:50am

I'm in despair. Does anybody out there voting for Obama know about or even care about this stuff?! I could accept Obama winning fair and square, but people are basing their vote completely on lies of omission!

128 doppelganglander  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:07:20am

re: #23 arethusa

He can't help that. It's natural.///

The most smug I have ever seen him look is during the second debate when he lectured us all on preventative health care. From an underweight chain smoker, no less.

I think the freeze frame at the beginning of this video is a close second.

129 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:07:51am

re: #64 MandyManners

Tell me more about this "Basil Haydens"
something tells me I might need some tuesday night...

130 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:07:52am

All this "price control" stuff reminds me of the Roman Emperor Diocletian's Edict on Maximum Prices in 301. It tried to fix the Roman economy by combating inflation caused by a wildly debased coinage and setting prices for common goods. It just ended up making things worse and contributed to the decline of Rome. Obama's suggestion is for "behavioral" reasons, but messes with the economy as well, in ways as fundamental as Diocletian, without balancing it out. I expect it will have a similar effect.

OK, rest assured, that's the classical snippet for the day.

131 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:08:16am

re: #122 lennysquiggy

Charles, I confess to not following your Creatonist posts as closely as your others... But would it be safe to say that Obama's supporters are somewhat Creatonist in their views of Barry? Rather than being the result of 150+ years of evolution of Marxist ideologies - recently adapted to the unforgiving (for marxists) ecosystem of America - they think Barry guy was just miraculously created by God to deliver us from evil.

You know, unless of course, Barry IS God?

Not sure if that made any sense. I think I'm gonna go put a flexi-straw in a coffee pot and see where it leads me.

Tape your phone to the ceiling now and have 911 on speed-dial.

132 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:08:17am

re: #127 Reluctant Democrat

I'm in despair. Does anybody out there voting for Obama know about or even care about this stuff?! I could accept Obama winning fair and square, but people are basing their vote completely on lies of omission!

The answer is No. He's cool, he's young. That'll do it. (See Hillary)

133 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:08:23am

Don't change the world, vote McCain.

134 ziggyelman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:08:29am

re: #116 FightingBack

No one would do a thing about it now, either. Anointed is Anointed.

Well, that's true....some Jews might feel awfully stupid supporting him, if they knew what he said that day....pray someone somehow can get a copy of it...tomorrow? Tuesday would be too late. Yeah, I know...I'm a dreamer.

135 FrogMarch  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:08:43am

Time for the nation to wake up to the nightmare that could be our first communist/socialist/Marxist president.

136 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:09:00am

re: #127 Reluctant Democrat

I'm in despair. Does anybody out there voting for Obama know about or even care about this stuff?! I could accept Obama winning fair and square, but people are basing their vote completely on lies of omission!

NO they don't care. If you tell them or furnish a link, they call you a selfish liar, or worse.

137 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:09:10am

re: #129 redshirt

Tell me more about this "Basil Haydens"
something tells me I might need some tuesday night...

Some consider it the best bourbon ever distilled. Smoother than a baby's butt.

138 right_on_target  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:09:28am

re: #15 arethusa

Huh? "Change my behavior"? Bub, if you want me to buy nothing beyond the essentials ever again, keep it up.

Think I'll go buy myself that iPod I've been considering now...


__________________________________
My cousins in the former DDR [East Germany] had plenty of essential food to eat - potatoes and more potatoes and then some more potatoes.
They had money [like aluminum coins] but there wasn't anything on the shelves to buy.
IF one was a card carrying Communist then things were a little better; you could buy Cuban cigars. That's one way we knew one of our cousins wasn't to be trusted.

139 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:09:32am

re: #129 redshirt

Tell me more about this "Basil Haydens"
something tells me I might need some tuesday night...

Oh, and it's not for slamming back. It's to be sipped.

140 Bobblehead  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:10:36am

re: #105 MandyManners

Doesn't matter whether it was false or not. Both of them have that air of "do as I say not as I do" mentality that seems to be a part of any liberal's bag of tricks.

141 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:10:39am

re: #139 MandyManners

Oh, and it's not for slamming back. It's to be sipped.

How much does it cost? I may buy some for Tuesday night.

142 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:10:44am

re: #138 right_on_target

__________________________________
My cousins in the former DDR [East Germany] had plenty of essential food to eat - potatoes and more potatoes and then some more potatoes.
They had money [like aluminum coins] but there wasn't anything on the shelves to buy.
IF one was a card carrying Communist then things were a little better; you could buy Cuban cigars. That's one way we knew one of our cousins wasn't to be trusted.

No cabbage? No beets?

143 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:10:44am

re: #136 SpartanWoman

NO they don't care. If you tell them or furnish a link, they call you a selfish liar, or worse.

Or, they refuse to look at the evidence. Just flat-out refuse. I've had that happen.

144 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:10:59am

re: #109 ziggyelman

exactly! Just imagine how pissed we all are going to be when the tribute video of the PLO guy(don't care to memorize his name)comes out, and it will, weeks or months from now, and no one can do a thing about it!

We've been royally hosed.

145 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:11:03am

re: #137 MandyManners

I'm a single malt scotch kind of guy, but always looking for something new.
Is it pricey? Cause all I'm gonna have is change if "Beloved Leader" gets elected.

146 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:11:21am

re: #140 Bobblehead

Doesn't matter whether it was false or not. Both of them have that air of "do as I say not as I do" mentality that seems to be a part of any liberal's bag of tricks.

Her mentality is what caused many to believe it.

147 FrogMarch  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:11:36am

Obama lies and uses the Heritage Foundation in his ads.

the Hertiage Foundation has asked him to stop, but Obama won't.

Obama's punitive taxes will ruin this nation. But his fawning press will paint a picture that "everything is wonderful" even as jobs are cut and unemployment skyrockets.

mark my words.

148 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:11:41am

re: #138 right_on_target

__________________________________
My cousins in the former DDR [East Germany] had plenty of essential food to eat - potatoes and more potatoes and then some more potatoes.
They had money [like aluminum coins] but there wasn't anything on the shelves to buy.
IF one was a card carrying Communist then things were a little better; you could buy Cuban cigars. That's one way we knew one of our cousins wasn't to be trusted.

I can hardly wait for that Utopia! Perhaps if I join the new Domestic People's Army Lord Obama is going to make, my lot in life will be good as well? So, you all have that then? > Join the Party, enlist in the People's Army....you will not have to stand in line as long, and you might get a nicer government apartment from the Central Committee!

149 Aviator  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:11:50am

re: #54 cobalt blue

The biggest area for Obama's use of "price signals" to change behavior, obviously, is going to be in the field of government-funded health insurance. Namely, if you wish to have health insurance, you must give up risky behavior ___. Government socialized medicine will be the instrument of massive social behavioral controls.

Ding Ding Ding

Socialized medicine gives the state a vested interest in citizens behavior. Further expansion of the Nanny state. Further control over its citizens.

150 WindHorse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:05am

Barry, you are a naive, little man.

151 Cygnus  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:06am

re: #40 FightingBack

Cutbacks. Already.

Can't we get a 700 billion MB bailout from the government?

152 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:21am

re: #134 ziggyelman

How much more do they need? He doesn't deny he was in the congregation, does he?
What do they think, he was the Shabbos Goy?

153 gregg  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:29am

re: #96 Who Watches the Watchmen?

arrrrrrrgh! Where was all this stuff weeks ago?

It's always been there, the media has refused to report it.

If Obama wins, it would be much easier for me to take if I thought people knew what they were actually voting for, but they don't.

154 aLohaTim  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:29am

Why should we be surprised. When the cost of gas rose to $4 a GALLON. The only problem Obama had with that was it rose too fast! (He said that in a video interview.)

155 Miss Trixie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:49am

OT - YouTubie no longer has that Affleck/Olberidiot video - does anyone have a copy to view?

Thanks.

156 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:12:49am

re: #143 Occasional Reader

Or, they refuse to look at the evidence. Just flat-out refuse. I've had that happen.

It's a cult, not even an ideology. One bright note is that a man I work with, big time dem, picked up a copy of O's last book believing he would learn about his idol. After reading it he decided to vote McCain and said "I had no idea. I don't agree with any of this shit!"

Maybe they should have to read his memoir.

157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:13:16am

Anybody remember John Lovitz on SNL (as Dukakis) looks right at the camera (during a debate) and says, "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy."

158 Osama Bin Asshat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:13:20am

Hope. Faith. Charity.

Dope. Pain. Therapy.

/Obama win

159 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:13:39am

Regarding Beloved Leaders" new national security group, would it be fair to call them "NaSe's"? (nasee)

160 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:13:50am

OT:
Has anyone seen that Axe Chocolate guy commercial?

At first it was creepy, but by the end of the commercial I was almost in tears I was laughing so hard.

161 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:13:51am

Just received a chain/mass email from an online buddy (who's actually a very infrequent commenter here) which purports to have info from "internal polling" taken by the Republicans over the last week -- i.e. the polling which has the real data about voter preferences, not the slanted crap produced for public consumption. Anyway, according to this mass-email, the Republican internals are WAY rosier for McCain than the standard Gallup/etc. polls. In fact, McCain is ahead in most if not all battleground states.

Don't know how much stake to put in that -- could be real, or could be just a way to give McCain voters a reason to go to the polls on Tuesday.

162 Killian Bundy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:14:02am

Civilian Security Force

Why would we even need that?

/because it's the only way to confiscate all personal firearms, think about it

163 La Mauvaise New Yorkaise  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:14:04am

Pay more for electricity?

Here in the socialist hellhole of NYC this summer, I paid over $100 a month in electricity bills to ConEd to air condition my 300 square foot apartment. I turned all appliances off when I was not in my apartment, which was pretty much from Monday through Friday, from 7am to 7pm.

How much more can you f*cking take away from me Obama? Do you want my firstborn?

164 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:14:32am

re: #141 rightymouse

How much does it cost? I may buy some for Tuesday night.

Depending on your local taxes, a fifth is just $40-$50.

165 Occasional Reader  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:14:49am

I am off to forage for lunch. I will ensure that it is a lowfat, dolphin-safe lunch; I will change my behavior.

I love Big Brother.

Under the spreading Chestnut Tree
I sold you, and you sold me...

166 Gang of One  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:14:52am

re: #64 MandyManners

That's it exactly.

I'm gonna' retreat to the corner and cling to my bottle of Basil Hayden's.

OK, but you'd better be in good shape by Tuesday.

167 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:14:55am

re: #163 La Mauvaise New Yorkaise

Only his Mind.

168 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:15:09am

re: #155 Miss Trixie

OT - YouTubie no longer has that Affleck/Olberidiot video - does anyone have a copy to view?

Thanks.

Try NBC.com. They usually have SNL skits on there.

169 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:15:16am

re: #145 redshirt

I'm a single malt scotch kind of guy, but always looking for something new.
Is it pricey? Cause all I'm gonna have is change if "Beloved Leader" gets elected.

See no. 164.

170 Fearless Fred  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:15:19am

re: #88 zombie

Really? Link?

Link -- Asteroid!

Quote --

It may very well be that an army of glum, dispirited and pessimistic conservatives will reluctantly trudge to the polls on November 4, each one imagining they are the only remaining person in the entire country voting for McCain, and lo and behold — they’ll turn out to be a silent majority after all.
171 bellamags  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:15:30am

re: #160 CyanSnowHawk

yes. frikin hilarious. Do you have Comcast where you are and if you do how do you like all of their commercials? example: "Save a load of Benjamins"

172 baxtrice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:15:45am

I had a revelation last night, being that I'm a young lass, I never experienced the "malaise" of the Carter years and have been a Republican/Libertarian by way of my upbringing. Due to the mass adulation of my generation and the younger generation and the MSM, I'm going to experience the Carter malaise (Thanks jerks!).

I made my dad give me the lowdown on the Carter years last night over coffee and cigarettes. Dear me, when Biden said "Gird your loins", he wasn't kidding.

173 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:15:52am

re: #150 WindHorse

Barry, you are a naive, little man.

There is NOTHING naive about him. He knows what he's doing.

174 favorednation  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:10am

re: #90 rightymouse

Who just said "nee!"?

175 alien_mind  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:15am

He did say that he would change America, AND the world.

seriously though, how arrogant is it to say that Americans like to have every light in their houses on?

rascist, selfish, wasteful, bitter and clinging. a portriat of middle-America by Barack Obama.

176 Thanos  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:30am

O on Nuclear - voted twice against Yucca Mtn storage, voted for more stringent regs on Nuclear plants (if any coal or gas fired plant had to meet the regs nuclear does they would be bankrupt.... wait that sounds familiar....) Voted twice against drilling ANWR. Was opposed in past to offshore drilling, changed stance just for the election.

Will end the notion of Yucca Mountain nuclear storage
I will end the notion of Yucca Mountain because it has not been based on the sort of sound science that can assure people that they're going to be safe. That was a mistake. You hate to see billions of dollars having already been spent, but I don't want to spend additional billions of dollars and potentially create a situation that is not safe. I've been clear from the start that Yucca was a misconceived project. I want to get the best experts and make a determination on the best science available.
Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008

Promote green technologies and fuel efficiency standards
this to happen, we've got to be courageous enough to not just talk about it in front of the sierra club or organizations already sympathetic to us. When I announced my proposal to increase fuel efficiency standards on cars, I went to Detroit in front of the automakers and said they had to change their ways. I have to say the room was quiet and nobody clapped, but that's okay. Part of what the next president has to do is not just tell the American people what they want to hear, but what they need to hear
Source: 2007 Des Moines Register Democratic Debate Dec 13, 2007

Organized inner-city recycling; fought environmental racism
One environmental magazine called Obama a "bona-fide, card-carrying, bleeding-heart greenie." As a student at Columbia University, Obama worked for three months as an environmental activist to promote recycling in Harlem. As a community organizer, he fought against environmental racism by helping public housing residents demand to have their apartments tested for asbestos and repaired. He noted, "Environmentalism is not an upper-income issue, it's not a black issue, it's not a South or a North or an East or a West issue. It's an issue that all of us have a stake in."
Obama introduced a bill requiring more pollution controls at coal plants to block Bush from rolling back the Clean Air Act in Illinois. He cosponsored a bill to require that 10% of electricity in the state come from renewable sources by 2012, and supported measures to increase energy efficiency codes. Obama sought tougher standards for diesel engines and proposed protecting wetland and stopping toxic dumping.

More here and here

177 The Other Les  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:47am

re: #163 La Mauvaise New Yorkaise

Pay more for electricity?

Here in the socialist hellhole of NYC this summer, I paid over $100 a month in electricity bills to ConEd to air condition my 300 square foot apartment. I turned all appliances off when I was not in my apartment, which was pretty much from Monday through Friday, from 7am to 7pm.

How much more can you f*cking take away from me Obama? Do you want my firstborn?

If the past history of Socialist States is any reasonable indication of probable behavior of the Obama administration then the answer is YES!

178 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:52am

re: #171 bellamags

yes. frikin hilarious. Do you have Comcast where you are and if you do how do you like all of their commercials? example: "Save a load of Benjamins"

I've got Cox for my cable provider. I don't think Comcast is anywhere in the San Diego area.

179 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:53am

re: #167 FightingBack

Right. They want your kid from birth to 7 years old, then you can have your kid back.

/Following the old Stalin adage of training the child during their early years to form the base of their indoctrination.

180 lennysquiggy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:16:53am

#131:

Excellent idea. Thank you.

181 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:01am

re: #162 Killian Bundy

Civilian Security Force

Why would we even need that?

/because it's the only way to confiscate all personal firearms, think about it

I'll whack 'em with my empty bottles.

182 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:24am

re: #166 Gang of One

OK, but you'd better be in good shape by Tuesday.

I'm not drinking it. Just clinging to it.

183 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:29am

re: #175 alien_mind

Imagine an entire country lit by a single 40 watt bulb.

184 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:35am

re: #170 Fearless Fred

Oh, yeah, that -- I saw that two days ago! Thanks for re-pointing it out though. I thought there was a new mention yesterday!

Being linked to by Bill Whittle -- can cross that one off my list of life-goals.

185 Cygnus  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:37am
186 gop_patriot  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:42am

My Facebook is full of LGF posts I've Shared. My computer is practically smoking from all of the emails I've been sending this week.

I am so grateful that all of this is finally coming to light, but I am FURIOUS that the mainstream media has actively refused to do it's job this election cycle.

Average, non-journalist citizens have had to take up the slack. And it's awesome that these people- Charles, Zombie, and all the others here and at other blogs spent many hours and much effort to bring the outrageous past of this man who is running for President into the light and the public eye.

But the fact is that it is the profession, the job, of journalists and the media to do this. They get paid for it, it's what they do, it's how they make their living.For them to turn their backs on the basic tenant of their job, which is to get the truth and information to the people who are depending on them for the news of the day is despicable. The fact that the rest of us are having to do our jobs, go to work every day doing what we do to make a living- and then also have to do the journalists jobs too is just ridiculous in the supreme, and makes me sick.

I saw this quote today:

I do not take a single newspaper, nor read one a month, and I feel myself infinitely the happier for it. -Thomas Jefferson

it works for all the media, really- and it pretty much sums up how I feel about the MSM anymore.

187 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:44am

re: #160 CyanSnowHawk

Hey, you play Warcraft III on battlenet?

188 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:44am

re: #164 MandyManners

Depending on your local taxes, a fifth is just $40-$50.


Yikes!

189 Macker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:17:46am

re: #14 looking closely

I'm going to send Senator Obama my own "signal" on Tuesday.

I already have.

190 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:18:18am

re: #172 baxtrice

I had a revelation last night, being that I'm a young lass, I never experienced the "malaise" of the Carter years and have been a Republican/Libertarian by way of my upbringing. Due to the mass adulation of my generation and the younger generation and the MSM, I'm going to experience the Carter malaise (Thanks jerks!).

I made my dad give me the lowdown on the Carter years last night over coffee and cigarettes. Dear me, when Biden said "Gird your loins", he wasn't kidding.

I vaguely remember it. Even I knew it was shitty.

191 imtoast  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:18:44am

Damn, that's a whole new vocabulary I'm not willing to learn.

192 Thanos  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:18:48am

I'm heading out to deliver some signs, back in a bit.

193 runrabbitrun  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:18:51am

re: #163 La Mauvaise New Yorkaise


How much more can you f*cking take away from me Obama? Do you want my firstborn?

He and Michelle have admitted that they will not be satisfied until all of us are conscripted into his socialist army of global reformers. They have lots of unpaid work for us to do.

194 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:18:53am

re: #189 Macker

I already have.

That will soon become illegal and earn you some jailtime

195 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:18:55am
Americans like to leave on their lights in their house

That civilian military force that Obama wants to built is going to go around turning out your lights?

196 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:03am

re: #183 FightingBack

Imagine an entire country lit by a single 40 watt bulb.

And, the bulb is sitting in the Oval Office.

197 yma o hyd  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:06am

re: #119 SpartanWoman

The press will pat themselves on the back for hiding it. They are happy with their subterfuge and will feel no shame

The press and academics who adore the One assume of course that hardship will not ever happen to them!
And in a way they're right - think of the life of the Nomenklatura in Soviet Russia, compared to that of the masses.

198 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:18am

Conceptualize misery, vote Obama.

199 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:21am

re: #170 Fearless Fred


No, Here is an ASTEROID. So maybe all this worry is for not...

200 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:25am

re: #188 rightymouse

Yikes!

Worth every cent.

201 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:27am

re: #174 favorednation

Who just said "nee!"?


We need more shrubberies! Let's print lots and lots of shrubberies!

202 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:30am

re: #195 Opinionated

More like breaking them if the behavior of certain Obamatrons is of any indication.

203 alien_mind  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:37am

re: #175 alien_mind

PIMF! Portrait

204 Gang of One  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:40am

re: #182 MandyManners

I'm not drinking it. Just clinging to it.

Then can I drink it? You can keep the bottle, m'kay?

205 bellamags  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:19:43am

re: #178 CyanSnowHawk

They aren't the greatest cable provider, but their advertising keeps me from dropping them.

206 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:07am

re: #195 Opinionated

That civilian military force that Obama wants to built is going to go around turning out your lights?

They'll leave warnings nailed to your door at first.

207 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:20am

re: #201 rightymouse

To each according to his nee!

208 vapig  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:22am

We can NOT afford 4 years of this guy!

209 doppelganglander  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:31am

re: #183 FightingBack

Imagine an entire country lit by a single 40 watt bulb.

Ever see a satellite photo of North Korea at night? A little cluster of lights around Pyongyang, and utter darkness everywhere else.

210 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:37am

re: #200 MandyManners

Worth every cent.

Haven't done bourbon in a while. I'll take your word on this. It will be a perfect night to imbibe. :)

211 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:38am

re: #187 mitthrawnurdo

Hey, you play Warcraft III on battlenet?

No, why? Did someone snake my nic?

212 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:41am

re: #204 Gang of One

Then can I drink it? You can keep the bottle, m'kay?

Noooooooooooooooooo.

213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:20:47am

re: #173 MandyManners

There is NOTHING naive about him. He knows what he's doing.

Exactly what he is doing. And he knows the consequences. And, he only cares about the speed in which he can cause these consequences.

Loved this from the thread downstairs...

capitalistbaby
I hate this guy with the fire of a thousand suns.
214 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:07am

re: #186 gop_patriot

You were raised right. They were told that their job is to get The Message out.
Truth doesn't enter into it. But their day is ending, and I hope it's not too late.

215 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:16am

re: #207 jaunte

To each according to his nee!

Absoluteleeeee!

216 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:19am

re: #190 MandyManners

I vaguely remember it. Even I knew it was shitty.

I remember it well. The want ads in Lansing Michigan were 4 inches long in the paper...and only for welders. I stayed in school as I was able to find nothing. Michigan never really recovered and Obama wants Michigan for the rest of us.

I ate a lot of rice

217 johngaltlives  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:42am

re: #209 doppelganglander

The only pace there will be lights will bw the White House and Bill Ayers house. The rest of us will using hand cranked generators to run our computers so we can be on LGF.

218 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:43am

re: #210 rightymouse

Haven't done bourbon in a while. I'll take your word on this. It will be a perfect night to imbibe. :)

For Tuesday.

219 blastforth  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:47am

He, like most liberals, has no respect for the law of unintended consequences, for example: Remember the "luxury tax" the dems shoved down Bush I's throat back in 1990? Rich folks took their business overseas and workers at marinas here lost their jobs. Result, reduced tax revenue and increased suffering. That's what you get when you "tax the rich."

220 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:21:58am

re: #209 doppelganglander

Ever see a satellite photo of North Korea at night? A little cluster of lights around Pyongyang, and utter darkness everywhere else.


2012 campaign slogan
"OBAMA

BRINGING AMERICA DARKNESS SINCE 2009"

221 NoSubmission  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:07am
222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:11am

re: #192 Thanos

Heh. Here's yer sign.

223 guzziguy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:20am

re: #162 Killian Bundy

Civilian Security Force

Why would we even need that?

/because it's the only way to confiscate all personal firearms, think about it

Well hell, I never wanted to die old and sick anyway.

224 notutopia  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:22am

OBAMA"S PRICE BEHAVIORS

Punish behavior with MORE taxes
More Sloth reward it with government handouts
Punish success you get less success

Outcome: Failed Economy
Governmental Control

225 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:28am

re: #216 SpartanWoman

I saw a lot of Michigan license plates in Houston during those years.

226 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:33am
227 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:38am

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And, what he doesn't know, his future members of the politburo will take up the slack.

228 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:49am

re: #207 jaunte

To each according to his nee!

The Knights who say NEE!

229 funky chicken  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:52am

Lizards, you can call for McCain/Palin from your own home. The campaign website will hook you up with phone numbers in battleground states.

[Link: www.johnmccain.com...]

I spent 8 hours walking and knocking on doors for the campaign. While I was out, somebody left a McCain door hanger on my place :-)

Henderson, NV is getting lots of attention, and I walked yesterday with Californians who were here for their second weekend!

Get out and do something, or just call from home. It's easy!

230 baxtrice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:53am

re: #190 MandyManners

I vaguely remember it. Even I knew it was shitty.

My dad used about the same vocabulary. :)

The pessimist in me says: I'm pissed to a certain extent, I feel like the next 4 years of my life are about to be confiscated to someone else (but Socialism will do that for you..) I am going to hold a nasty grudge against my generation come Tuesday...

The optimist in me says: Americans simply cannot let this happen to them. They're smarter than this.

231 runrabbitrun  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:54am

re: #193 runrabbitrun

He and Michelle have admitted that they will not be satisfied until all of us are conscripted into his socialist army of global reformers. They have lots of unpaid work for us to do.

opps, I forgot that even Tito the Builder admitted that we will be granted 0.97 cents per hour.

232 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:22:55am

re: #211 CyanSnowHawk

Well, I remember playing somebody with your nic or one similar. Wasn't too long ago. I cling to Warcraft III whenever experiments go bad or I'm generally having a bad day (can't play Dawn of War online for some reason or another).

/Got my ass kicked and was going to commend (or yell) at you for it, lol.

233 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:23:09am

re: #221 NoSubmission

Obama: I won't answer any questions until after the election.

And then he will answer them by having the person asking them arrested and re-educated....

234 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:23:34am

re: #216 SpartanWoman

I remember it well. The want ads in Lansing Michigan were 4 inches long in the paper...and only for welders. I stayed in school as I was able to find nothing. Michigan never really recovered and Obama wants Michigan for the rest of us.

I ate a lot of rice

Well you'll fit right in for the next four years if BHO wins.

235 BaseballMom57  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:23:35am

re: #101 Opilio

Urban legend -- didn't happen.

Are you missing a sarc tag, or are you serious?

236 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:16am

re: #206 MandyManners

They'll leave warnings nailed to your door at first.

My guess is that they will also turn out some lights if anyone braves to attend political demonstrations against the Administration. And without any warning.

237 bellamags  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:21am

OT - If Obama is elected, here is a glimpse of the future:

I own a tanning salon and have to change the lamps out of the beds about once per year. I used to take my old lamps to the local dump and they would dispose of them for around seventeen cents each. I take roughly 350 lamps. I would cost me around $60.
A month ago I pulled up to the dump and she said "we don't take those anymore. You have to call this number". I called them and they offered to come get them and dispose of them for the low low price of $3.00 each!
They are still sitting in my garage.

238 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:26am
239 yesandno  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:26am

I am sick of this argument that we have to change via government mandate.

They always assume there is a finate amount of wealth. There isn't. The amount of wealth can be expanded in a way that benefits everyone. Same with all this crap about energy conservation. We cannot conserve our way into more energy. All we can do is diminish our way of life.

We should be seeking alternative, cheaper, and cleaner forms of energy. This makes sense in the long run....it is less expensive then polution, etc. At the same time, we need the old energy to survive long enough to lead us to alternatives. We cannot go bankrupt and then develop new things. Where will the money to support this come from? You cannot tax your way to wealth, either.

Why should Americans lessen their way of life in order to improve the lot of others? All this does is make the third world feel more equal because we will be third world as well. We need to raise people up, not tear them down.

Obama is anti-capitalism...hence he is anti-American to my way of thinking.

240 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:30am

re: #226 arethusa

IBD/TIPP (the most accurate poll in terms of final percentage of the votes in 2004) has McCain within 2.1, within their margin of error.

Wasn't it like, 1.1 last week?

241 zombie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:42am

It's quite obvious that the whole "man-made global warming" hoax is a method for destroying capitalism. "Energy" is the life-blood of all economies, and if you intentionally make energy unaffordable, as Obama just overtly stated he would do, you are purposely crippling the capitalist system. This whole thing with carbon-tax and "carbon credits" and blah blah blah is just one giant euphemism for: Let's destroy the capitalist system. And Obama is stepping up the to plate to make that happen.

Obama says:

No more energy from coal. Period.

No more nuke plants -- I'll vote against any new waste disposal sites, making new plants unfeasible.

No more drilling for oil.

I will purposely cause electricity rates to skyrocket.

Instead, let's place our hopes in pie-in-sky non-existent future energy sources that I KNOW are decades away from being feasible.

Basically, Obama has already spelled out his blueprint for destroying the economy ON PURPOSE.

242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:43am

Hey. Anybody who can tell me if you can, or how to quote a comment from a previous thread without cutting and pasting it?

243 gop_patriot  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:24:47am

re: #214 FightingBack

I know it's been ranted here before, but I just had to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening. lol

*sigh*

244 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:01am

re: #209 doppelganglander

Yes, thanks, I have. Have you ever flown down the Eastern Seaboard and seen the beautiful lights stretch along the entire route?

245 tappin52  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:02am

Obama : America
Mugabe : Zimbabwe

246 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:04am

re: #235 BaseballMom57


Yeah, I also read that the Michelle hotel thing was an urban legend. (I think the correction showed up on the NY Post).

247 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:08am

re: #230 baxtrice

My dad used about the same vocabulary. :)

The pessimist in me says: I'm pissed to a certain extent, I feel like the next 4 years of my life are about to be confiscated to someone else (but Socialism will do that for you..) I am going to hold a nasty grudge against my generation come Tuesday...

The optimist in me says: Americans simply cannot let this happen to them. They're smarter than this.

I ran into an Eeyore at the park yesterday. I gave him a friendly ass-chewing.

248 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:31am

Just make sure you go vote....and tell all your friends to vote too.....except the ones that want to vote for Obama....tell them to hop in a lake instead!

249 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:45am

re: #218 MandyManners

For Tuesday.

I'd like to stay sober. Can one do that drinking this brand of bourbon?

250 johngaltlives  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:52am

re: #226 arethusa


I see why McCain has been spending all of his time in PA, OH & VA. Look at all of the undecideds. If he can get 2/3 of them then he can squeek by.

Dick Morris says McCain is getting over 2/3s of the undecideds. I am calling the battleground states todya and tomorrow. Thank God for Vonage!

251 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:25:59am

re: #236 Opinionated

My guess is that they will also turn out some lights if anyone braves to attend political demonstrations against the Administration. And without any warning.

Light lights or the brain's lights?

252 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:12am

re: #240 TheMatrix31

Wasn't it like, 1.1 last week?

Only one day - here's how that poll has been moving:

Date McCain Obama Not Sure Spread Details
11/2 44.6% 46.7% 8.7% Obama +2.1 View
11/1 43.4% 47.9% 8.7% Obama +4.5 View
10/31 43.8% 48.2% 8.0% Obama +4.4 View
10/30 43.6% 47.7% 8.7% Obama +4.1 View
10/29 43.9% 46.9% 9.2% Obama +3.0 View
10/28 43.7% 47.7% 8.6% Obama +4.0 View
10/27 44.2% 47.0% 8.8% Obama +2.8 View
10/26 43.3% 46.5% 10.1% Obama +3.2 View
10/25 41.9% 45.8% 12.2% Obama +3.9 View
10/24 42.3% 45.8% 11.9% Obama +3.5 View
10/23 43.7% 44.8% 11.6% Obama +1.1 View
10/22 42.0% 45.7% 12.3% Obama +3.7 View
10/21 40.9% 46.9% 12.1% Obama +6.0 View
10/20 41.4% 46.7% 11.9% Obama +5.3 View
10/19 41.5% 46.6% 11.9% Obama +5.1 View
10/18 39.8% 47.2% 13.0% Obama +7.3 View
10/17 40.6% 45.9% 13.5% Obama +5.3 View
10/16 41.6% 45.2% 13.2% Obama +3.6 View
10/15 41.9% 45.2% 12.9% Obama +3.3 View
10/14 41.9% 44.8% 13.3% Obama +3.0 View
10/13 42.7% 44.8% 12.5% Obama +2.1 View

253 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:15am
254 windbrother  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:26am

re: #183 FightingBack

Arg. Why is it that people feel that *WASTING* energy is their God-given right? Are you insane? Do you just want to flush money down the drain that could go in your pocket?

Incandescent vs. CFL, or better yet LED (yes, you can get them now from China, the US can't make them). 7% of the energy usage! Laptop computer (new) - 50W. New Energy Star washer / dryer - 80% less energy use than a model 7 years ago. New heat pump - 16SEER available. Triple pane Low-e windows - cuts your heating/cooling bills by 70%.

Energy efficiency is not a liberal / conservative issue. My parents are die-hard conservatives, but they built their house a decade ago using ground-source heat pumps, high insulation, south-facing passive solar. Electric

255 mitthrawnurdo  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:34am

re: #245 tappin52

That would be a good question for the SATs!

256 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:39am

Embrace double digit inflation and double digit unemployment, vote Obama.

257 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:40am

re: #221 NoSubmission

May Jake Tapper's name be erased from the Book of Life along with all the other journalists who abandoned their country to join a personality cult.

258 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:41am

re: #161 zombie

Just received a chain/mass email from an online buddy (who's actually a very infrequent commenter here) which purports to have info from "internal polling" taken by the Republicans over the last week -- i.e. the polling which has the real data about voter preferences, not the slanted crap produced for public consumption. Anyway, according to this mass-email, the Republican internals are WAY rosier for McCain than the standard Gallup/etc. polls. In fact, McCain is ahead in most if not all battleground states.

Don't know how much stake to put in that -- could be real, or could be just a way to give McCain voters a reason to go to the polls on Tuesday.

The Democrats surely know this, too. That may be why the Obama campaign is running massive amounts of advertising in states the Media thought they had in the bag, like Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio.

259 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:26:42am

re: #237 bellamags

OT - If Obama is elected, here is a glimpse of the future:

I own a tanning salon and have to change the lamps out of the beds about once per year. I used to take my old lamps to the local dump and they would dispose of them for around seventeen cents each. I take roughly 350 lamps. I would cost me around $60.
A month ago I pulled up to the dump and she said "we don't take those anymore. You have to call this number". I called them and they offered to come get them and dispose of them for the low low price of $3.00 each!
They are still sitting in my garage.

BHO's thugs will take them for $20.00 each.

260 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:15am

re: #248 Desert Dog

Just make sure you go vote....and tell all your friends to vote too.....except the ones that want to vote for Obama....tell them to hop in a lake instead!

Nah. Just make you tell all Obama voters about the special VIP voting on Wednesday afternoon.

261 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:29am

re: #219 blastforth

He, like most liberals, has no respect for the law of unintended consequences, for example: Remember the "luxury tax" the dems shoved down Bush I's throat back in 1990? Rich folks took their business overseas and workers at marinas here lost their jobs. Result, reduced tax revenue and increased suffering. That's what you get when you "tax the rich."


DING! DING! DING! We have a WINNER!
Tax away luxuries and other products, peeps who make their living with saws, hammers, and rulers go on the unemployment line.

262 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:33am

re: #254 windbrother

Strawman.

263 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:48am

re: #234 MandyManners

Well you'll fit right in for the next four years if BHO wins.

Rice is more expensive these days. Maybe my dogs will share

264 JWill  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:48am

When Clinton enacted the retroactive tax hike on small businesses, my wifes company employed 3 full time and one part time employees.

Following this tax, all four employees were let go, and I had to cash in a life insurance account just to pay the IRS.

Ms Clinton made a statement when asked about this effect on America's small businesses. saying "We can't help it if this companies do not have proper cash flow"

O will do nothing less

265 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:50am

re: #242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey. Anybody who can tell me if you can, or how to quote a comment from a previous thread without cutting and pasting it?

You can't.

266 johngaltlives  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:27:56am

re: #236 Opinionated

With facial recognition software they will have our names!/

I bet they will be in support of the PAtriot Act all of a sudden. Their new weapon on lizards.

267 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:03am

re: #252 arethusa

Only one day - here's how that poll has been moving:

Date McCain Obama Not Sure Spread Details
11/2 44.6% 46.7% 8.7% Obama +2.1 View
11/1 43.4% 47.9% 8.7% Obama +4.5 View
10/31 43.8% 48.2% 8.0% Obama +4.4 View
10/30 43.6% 47.7% 8.7% Obama +4.1 View
10/29 43.9% 46.9% 9.2% Obama +3.0 View
10/28 43.7% 47.7% 8.6% Obama +4.0 View
10/27 44.2% 47.0% 8.8% Obama +2.8 View
10/26 43.3% 46.5% 10.1% Obama +3.2 View
10/25 41.9% 45.8% 12.2% Obama +3.9 View
10/24 42.3% 45.8% 11.9% Obama +3.5 View
10/23 43.7% 44.8% 11.6% Obama +1.1 View
10/22 42.0% 45.7% 12.3% Obama +3.7 View
10/21 40.9% 46.9% 12.1% Obama +6.0 View
10/20 41.4% 46.7% 11.9% Obama +5.3 View
10/19 41.5% 46.6% 11.9% Obama +5.1 View
10/18 39.8% 47.2% 13.0% Obama +7.3 View
10/17 40.6% 45.9% 13.5% Obama +5.3 View
10/16 41.6% 45.2% 13.2% Obama +3.6 View
10/15 41.9% 45.2% 12.9% Obama +3.3 View
10/14 41.9% 44.8% 13.3% Obama +3.0 View
10/13 42.7% 44.8% 12.5% Obama +2.1 View

Oh damn. That 1.1 must have been an exception, then. Good news, I suppose.

268 NC State of Mind  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:09am

California wants to regulate thermostats

Remeber this story from earlier this year? I have no doubts Obama will try to take this national. Just before he implements rolling blackouts.

I don't mind it being 60 degrees in my room in December, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sleep in my own sweat all night for six months!

269 baxtrice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:12am

re: #247 MandyManners

I ran into an Eeyore at the park yesterday. I gave him a friendly ass-chewing.

Hey, I'm trying! I was being balanced. Oh well..Sorry Misstress Mandy..

270 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:31am

re: #249 rightymouse

I'd like to stay sober. Can one do that drinking this brand of bourbon?

If you sip it. This ain't hooch that'll light your rocket.

271 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:36am

re: #242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey. Anybody who can tell me if you can, or how to quote a comment from a previous thread without cutting and pasting it?

You can't, but you can link it by clicking on the post number and getting its individual URL.

272 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:55am

re: #235 BaseballMom57

Are you missing a sarc tag, or are you serious?

He's right - urban legend.

273 JimmyTheClaw  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:28:58am

re: #87 mama winger

I am so gonna have it made if Obama gets elected. You guys are going to be paying all my bills for me. My health care, my gas and electric, my mortgage .........

What's not to love?

/

ive said this to some of my friends adding that is exactly why mccain needs to win btw snl ripped on olberman and mccain did real good

274 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:06am

re: #232 mitthrawnurdo

Well, I remember playing somebody with your nic or one similar. Wasn't too long ago. I cling to Warcraft III whenever experiments go bad or I'm generally having a bad day (can't play Dawn of War online for some reason or another).

/Got my ass kicked and was going to commend (or yell) at you for it, lol.

I don't play online. I've messed around with DoW, but don't have much time for gaming, so tend to get my butt handed to me by anyone with even a little experience.

275 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:10am

re: #239 yesandno

We want the world to like us.
/////

276 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:18am

re: #263 SpartanWoman

Rice is more expensive these days. Maybe my dogs will share

Is it better than Meow Mix?

277 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:22am

re: #240 TheMatrix31

I believe Rush when he said The Zero would have to be in double digits ahead to win by 2.
I'm working the phones tomorrow for McCain. I hope no one pisses me off. The Zero people are 'ate up with the dumba$$' as my brother likes to say.

278 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:23am

re: #21 MandyManners

Wonder if Ayers will get a dascha.

Rev Wright got a nice one.

279 bill-tb  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:24am

Communist demagogue has empty head. It may be a disease that afflicts all commies.

280 Killian Bundy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:46am

Obama: ‘I’m Not Going to Take Your Guns Away’

“If you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it,’’ Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. “Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress,’’ he said.

Check back next Wednesday.

Oh look, we have a well regulated civilian militia.

/now give up your gun for Lord Numbnuts, you don't need it

281 Alouette  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:50am

re: #66 Jimmah

This seems to be a pattern in Obamas statements - 'we must change human behaviour to fit our enlightened policies'...

Looks like heavy handed socialism to me...

This is more than socialism.

282 SurferDoc  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:54am

re: #165 Occasional Reader

I am off to forage for lunch. I will ensure that it is a lowfat, dolphin-safe lunch; I will change my behavior.

I love Big Brother.

Under the spreading Chestnut Tree
I sold you, and you sold me...

Oranges and lemons, say the Bells of St. Clemens

283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:29:55am

re: #265 MandyManners

Thanks.

284 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:11am

re: #269 baxtrice

Hey, I'm trying! I was being balanced. Oh well..Sorry Misstress Mandy..

Oh, you're fine. I was just recalling the thrill of the moment.

285 arethusa  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:21am

re: #267 TheMatrix31

No, I still think this is good news, given the poll's history and the fact that almost 9% are undecided, according to it. If McCain could get about 60% of the undecideds (I'm not good at math), he could do it.

286 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:24am

re: #276 MandyManners

Is it better than Meow Mix?

LOL. My dogs are in pretty good shape, maybe it will do me some good!

287 razorbacker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:26am

Grew up in rice country.

Soupy rice with sugar and butter for breakfast.

White rice for lunch.

Rice and gravy at supper.

"Mom, I hate rice."

"It's good for you. They eat nothing but rice in China."

"But I don't want to be Chinese, we're supposed to be Americans!"

288 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:28am

re: #25 MandyManners

Charles must be expecting a huge load. The avatars are gone.

They will reappear when the new stadium is built!

289 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:42am

re: #275 FightingBack

We want the world to like us.
/////

Oh, fuck the world.

290 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:30:52am

re: #254 windbrother

Arg. Why is it that people feel that *WASTING* energy is their God-given right? Are you insane? Do you just want to flush money down the drain that could go in your pocket?

Incandescent vs. CFL, or better yet LED (yes, you can get them now from China, the US can't make them). 7% of the energy usage! Laptop computer (new) - 50W. New Energy Star washer / dryer - 80% less energy use than a model 7 years ago. New heat pump - 16SEER available. Triple pane Low-e windows - cuts your heating/cooling bills by 70%.

Energy efficiency is not a liberal / conservative issue. My parents are die-hard conservatives, but they built their house a decade ago using ground-source heat pumps, high insulation, south-facing passive solar. Electric

Why is it that you think the government should tell us how to live our lives? If I want to keep all the lights on in my home, that's my business, not your business or Uncle Sam's. I'm not asking either of you to pay my bills.

Do you ride a bicycle or drive a car?

291 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:02am

re: #278 debutaunt

Rev Wright got a nice one.

In a gated-community, no less.

292 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:07am

re: #254 windbrother

It's a metaphor, wbrother. For economic collapse.

293 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:09am
294 johngaltlives  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:14am

I just watch McCain at a rally. That man never gives up.

He did not give up in the Hanoi HIlton. He was tortured, subbjected to mock executions and watched is friends die. Yet he never gave up. He is a true inspiration. We must fight! fight! fight!

If not for ourselves for the men and women that are shedding blood for us in the desert and caves!

Call everyone you know. And then call people you do not know.

295 baxtrice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:23am

re: #284 MandyManners

Oh, you're fine. I was just recalling the thrill of the moment.

LOL Girl, Remind me to NEVER piss you off. NEVER!

296 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:35am

re: #250 johngaltlives

I see why McCain has been spending all of his time in PA, OH & VA. Look at all of the undecideds. If he can get 2/3 of them then he can squeek by.

Dick Morris says McCain is getting over 2/3s of the undecideds. I am calling the battleground states todya and tomorrow. Thank God for Vonage!

Recently, when in Erie, Pa, I was taken aback by the lack of Obama signs. Sure there were a few out and about but not nearly in the expected numbers. At a local company I also noticed a distinct trend on the political items posted on the bulletin boards. Pretty much 5:1 against Obama and this was in a union shop.

297 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:36am

re: #286 SpartanWoman

LOL. My dogs are in pretty good shape, maybe it will do me some good!

Just don't go peeing on fire hydrants!

298 Alouette  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:42am

re: #196 MandyManners

And, the bulb is sitting in the Oval Office.

And, it's a dim bulb.

299 BaseballMom57  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:47am

re: #137 MandyManners

Some consider it the best bourbon ever distilled. Smoother than a baby's butt.

Sounds luscious....

From the Small Batch website: Basil Hayden's is unequalled in that it utilizes twice as much rye in it as the other bourbons in the Collection. Enriched by a hint of peppermint, it impresses with notes of pepper balanced by slight citrus overtones, and a spicy, warming finish. Aged eight years at a relatively mild 80 proof, Basil Hayden's has a broad appeal and is equally enjoyable alone or in cocktails such as a Juicy Basil and Basil Bubbly.

[Link: www.smallbatch.com...]

300 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:31:53am

re: #134 ziggyelman

Well, that's true....some Jews might feel awfully stupid supporting him, if they knew what he said that day....pray someone somehow can get a copy of it...tomorrow? Tuesday would be too late. Yeah, I know...I'm a dreamer.

They will not feel stupid. . .they will be betrayed!

301 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:32:03am

re: #254 windbrother

Arg. Why is it that people feel that *WASTING* energy is their God-given right? Are you insane? Do you just want to flush money down the drain that could go in your pocket?

Incandescent vs. CFL, or better yet LED (yes, you can get them now from China, the US can't make them). 7% of the energy usage! Laptop computer (new) - 50W. New Energy Star washer / dryer - 80% less energy use than a model 7 years ago. New heat pump - 16SEER available. Triple pane Low-e windows - cuts your heating/cooling bills by 70%.

Energy efficiency is not a liberal / conservative issue. My parents are die-hard conservatives, but they built their house a decade ago using ground-source heat pumps, high insulation, south-facing passive solar. Electric

windbrother, Dear Leader 0 isn't going to stop at energy efficiency when it comes to using punative taxation against us proles. His day to day, taxation billy-club wielding methodology is what we face.

302 johngaltlives  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:32:26am

re: #280 Killian Bundy


No, he will just put a high tax on guns and ammo. He will allow trial attornies to sue the manufacturers into oblivion.

303 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:32:30am

re: #251 MandyManners

Light lights or the brain's lights?

We have police forces. We have the FBI. Other LE.

Why would we need another civilian "military" force equal to the US military?

What purpose could they possibly have?

As much as we on the Right claim that Obama is running a stealth campaign, he has clearly and openly said enough that anyone listening can know exactly what he plans for this Nation.

304 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:32:36am

re: #297 MandyManners

Just don't go peeing on fire hydrants!

Although that would save water and toilet paper

305 doppelganglander  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:32:50am

re: #220 sattv4u2

2012 campaign slogan
"OBAMA

BRINGING AMERICA DARKNESS SINCE 2009"

That's racist!

306 MandyManners  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:18am

bbl

307 guzziguy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:25am

re: #259 MandyManners

BHO's thugs will take them for $20.00 each.

Right after they confiscate your house for being an illegal toxic waste dump.

308 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:34am

re: #303 Opinionated

"Why would we need another civilian "military" force equal to the US military?"

Because redistribution of wealth is a bitch.

309 TheMatrix31  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:38am

re: #285 arethusa

No, I still think this is good news, given the poll's history and the fact that almost 9% are undecided, according to it. If McCain could get about 60% of the undecideds (I'm not good at math), he could do it.

Oh I know, I just usually take it easy when analyzing things just not to get too down in the dumps or too excited.

310 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:42am

re: #300 DisturbedEma

They will not feel stupid. . .they will be betrayed!

Jews who look the other way are stupid, IMO and self-destructive. We need to act now.

311 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:45am

When we all live like Obama's half-brother George, in a 2x3 meter house, then we will have achieved true energy efficiency.

312 runrabbitrun  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:33:47am

re: #250 johngaltlives

I see why McCain has been spending all of his time in PA, OH & VA. Look at all of the undecideds. If he can get 2/3 of them then he can squeek by.

It shouldn't be difficult to get a majority of them. The reason that there are so many undecideds in this political climate and at this late date is these fence-sitters (the genuinely undecided, not the poll/media attention seekers) are all scared shiteless of taking a chance on Obama. They do see his far left leanings and know that his changes will likely be more radical than functional.

The more truth that leaks out near or at the moment of truth between them and the lever, the better.

313 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:34:55am

re: #305 doppelganglander

That's racist!

hehehe ,, I was in a Publix parking lot this morning. Lady parked next to me has an Obama sticker on her car. She's white. I looked at her,, and with a sad look on my face, I said " White guilt, huh? I understand. You;ll FEEL better after you vote for him"

314 Killian Bundy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:35:17am

Well hey people, let's all just step back, relax for a second, and take a deep breath.

/look at the bright side, Lord Numbnuts will only get maybe three or four Supreme Court picks tops

315 FightingBack  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:35:25am

re: #311 jaunte

When we all live like Obama's half-brother George, in a 2x3 meter house, then we will have achieved true energy efficiency.

Well, not "all." Some of us need jets to visit sick grammas.

316 SpartanWoman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:35:26am

re: #311 jaunte

When we all live like Obama's half-brother George, in a 2x3 meter house, then we will have achieved true energy efficiency.

I think there is a company named Tumbleweeds that makes houses under 100 square feet

317 Desert Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:35:55am

re: #272 Noam Sayin'

He's right - urban legend.

The truth about her is bad enough, we don't need to make stuff up

318 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:36:12am

re: #259 MandyManners
And here you cannot throw those lightbulbs away and to dispose of them is 50cents a piece. Plus I tried them they don't give off enough light for me to be able to see. I use the 'reveal' natural lightbulbs.

319 yesandno  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:36:14am

re: #294 johngaltlives

I just watch McCain at a rally. That man never gives up.

He did not give up in the Hanoi HIlton. He was tortured, subbjected to mock executions and watched is friends die. Yet he never gave up. He is a true inspiration. We must fight! fight! fight!

If not for ourselves for the men and women that are shedding blood for us in the desert and caves!

Call everyone you know. And then call people you do not know.

And he looks great! Obama is haggard now, but McCain looks 10 years younger then he is. Energy in McCain, positive energy!

320 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:36:41am

re: #270 MandyManners

If you sip it. This ain't hooch that'll light your rocket.


Hootch ain't my bag. I'll buy some of your stuff for Tuesday. Am taking the day off on Wednesday anyway.

321 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:36:53am

re: #314 Killian Bundy

Well hey people, let's all just step back, relax for a second, and take a deep breath.

/look at the bright side, Lord Numbnuts will only get maybe three or four Supreme Court picks tops

I've been thinking about that too. From what I see, he';; only be replacing one far lefty with another. I don't see any of the conservatioves retiring within the next 8 years

Now ,, the FEDERAL courts ,, YIKES ,, thats another matter entirely!

322 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:36:55am

re: #316 SpartanWoman

I actually like those things, but I'd need some acreage with a view...
[Link: www.tumbleweedhouses.com...]

323 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:37:05am

Billy Ayers has a wacky idea:

The Electoral College is a living legacy of slavery and must be overturned in favor of a National Popular Vote.

Probably will be a priority for the big "O" hole, too.

324 BaseballMom57  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:37:12am

re: #201 rightymouse

We need more shrubberies! Let's print lots and lots of shrubberies!

SPEW (iced coffee). LMAO

325 yma o hyd  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:37:53am

re: #254 windbrother

Just an aside - building such a house costs a lot of money - as does replacing all old appliances with those shiny new energy-saving ones.

Its not something you can force the whole population of America to adopt in one fell swoop.

People who advocate this sort of thing, while well-meaning, do not live in the real world.

326 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:37:56am

re: #81 arethusa

Wait...Obama just said we drive our SUVs too much - but back in the whole McCain car controversy, it was revealed that Obama drove a Ford Escape.

(OK, so it's a hybrid. Is he going to help make hybrids more affordable to those of us who aren't millionaires?)

Sure! Millionaires will become thousandaires and so forth.

327 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:39:01am

OT, but everyone here knows how the 0bamunist claims he won't jack up taxes on people, depending on what fluctuation he is fixated on, making $120,000 to $250,000 to pay for his planned workers paradise?
Hate to say this, but as an Army brat and while on active duty, lived in Europe twice & have met Soldiers from all over Europe. Every last one of 'em was taxed to hell and gone to pay for the "free" medical and gigantic social welfare net.

Do you want to pay even more taxes? Remember that on election day.

328 Miss Trixie  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:39:01am

Thanks, arethusa - looks like it's not posted yet. Olberidiot's prolly having a hissy fit. :D

329 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:39:11am

re: #310 SpartanWoman

Jews who look the other way are stupid, IMO and self-destructive. We need to act now.

I know what you are saying- and I am right there with you. . .BUT, to some extent, I see more Tikkun Olam than demogogery. . .

330 razorbacker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:39:20am

re: #312 runrabbitrun

'Undecided' or 'Won't say'?

I think that they 'won't say'. They won't say because they don't need any more idjits screaming racist at them.

When they get in the booth, pull the curtain closed, and turn and face the ballot, then they'll say.

I fear for this country, I surely do. LGFers are gonna be so happy that they'll be running around acting manic.

Kosers are gonna be so p*ssed that they'll be running around acting manic.

Gonna be bunch of maniacs either way.

331 BaseballMom57  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:39:25am

re: #216 SpartanWoman

I remember it well. The want ads in Lansing Michigan were 4 inches long in the paper...and only for welders. I stayed in school as I was able to find nothing. Michigan never really recovered and Obama wants Michigan for the rest of us.

I ate a lot of rice

And ramen.

332 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:39:59am

This post is going to get me banned. Goodbye, all, and good luck.

Price signals are a better way to ration gasoline, electricity, carbon dioxide emissions, or any other scarce good, than flat-out rationing. Take as given that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, that our use of it is changing our climate in ways that will be expensive down the road, and that we must therefore reduce our use of coal.

Different people have different priorities. Some families can just put on sweaters and ride out a cold snap. Others, perhaps those with small children, or people with small builds and no fat reserves, or the elderly, need their environment to be warmer than 65 degrees, or 68, or even 70. With rationing, the family that can cope with 65 has no reason to do so, and the family that needs 75, cannot at any price get it. With price signals, the family that can handle 65 will wear the sweaters and pocket the savings and buy an HDTV with it, while those who need the warmth can go without an HDTV and crank up the thermostat. Price signals allow individual preferences and needs to be matched to the supply of KWH's and HDTV's. Or any other pair of alternatives.

Obama is as wrong as he can be about nuclear power. It's already safe(r) [than coal]. It's safer than doing without half the electricity we now use. But as to the rest of what he says, there is a logic to it. In fact, he doesn't take the logic of price signals to its conclusion. Rather than having cap and trade systems, and auctioning off permits to release CO2, there ought to simply be a tax on using carbon-based fuels. That tax should extend to the implicit carbon content of any imported good, because it doesn't matter where the CO2 is produced, and because it's stupid to grant a tax waiver to all imports. That just shifts all heavy manufacturing offshore.

Nations that get most of their energy from nuclear, such as France, would largely escape that "tariff". Nations that run on coal, and with inefficient, backward generators, such as China, would not. Nations that more or less duplicate our own energy profile, such as Canada, would not be affected--their industry would be on an even competitive footing with ours.

The next thing he'd need to do would be to get Congress to pass laws of eminent domain so that any wind or solar project could put up the transmission lines to bring their electricity to market. Along with eminent domain laws should come exemptions from environmental impact statements: when all is said and done, any number of dead birds or disrupted migrations just don't amount to anything compared to climate change. And there should also be exemption from frivolous lawsuits. Claims that power lines cause allergies, or leukemia, or asthma, or autism, or demonic possession, should simply be ruled out of bounds. They don't, and your local elected judge knows nothing of science and too much of who elected him. Junk science is just another branch of trooferism.

333 joan  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:40:03am

Obama is a Prick. Smug little prick. the 'rats will destroy us.

Yeah, I know that isn't edifying. Sorry.

334 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:40:25am

re: #324 BaseballMom57

SPEW (iced coffee). LMAO

Sorry about that. :)

335 sagamoregal  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:40:32am

If McCain does begrudgingly win this thing on Tues, can we please get a Secretary of Education who pulls a page out of the Leftist playbook and makes it *mandatory* that every U.S. high school student read everything that George Orwell and Ayn Rand wrote so we never EVER get this close again to a Marxist Socialist/Communist government? 30 years of the NEA mindnumbing our children won't be overturned overnight but we have to start somewhere!

O/T , does McCain pay out of his own pocket for Sen Lindsay Graham to travel with him 24/7 or do the donors to the campaign pay for his best friend to tag along? Can you find 10 pictures of McCain on the campaign trail in which Graham is not in them?

336 Killian Bundy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:40:48am

re: #326 debutaunt

Sure! Millionaires will become thousandaires and so forth.

/someone's got to pay for Peggy's gas and mortgage

337 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:42:40am

re: #254 windbrother

Arg. Why is it that people feel that *WASTING* energy is their God-given right? Are you insane? Do you just want to flush money down the drain that could go in your pocket?

Incandescent vs. CFL, or better yet LED (yes, you can get them now from China, the US can't make them). 7% of the energy usage! Laptop computer (new) - 50W. New Energy Star washer / dryer - 80% less energy use than a model 7 years ago. New heat pump - 16SEER available. Triple pane Low-e windows - cuts your heating/cooling bills by 70%.

Energy efficiency is not a liberal / conservative issue. My parents are die-hard conservatives, but they built their house a decade ago using ground-source heat pumps, high insulation, south-facing passive solar. Electric


Yes, we replaced some windows in our house with double pane at about $600 each.
Just replaced an air conditioner with 16 SEER $7000.
CFL color gives me a headache to read to and color rendition is terrible. I am enthusiastic about LED, but haven't seen it yet.
Send me the money for a new laptop and washer dryer. Energy star units run over $1000 each. They way I figure it, the extra cost will just about equal the energy savings in about 10 years. That does NOT make economic sense.
I'm glad your parents could build that house. Please tell us, however, how much all those energy efficient upgrades added to the cost of the building..

338 tappin52  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:43:59am

re: #325 yma o hyd

Just an aside - building such a house costs a lot of money - as does replacing all old appliances with those shiny new energy-saving ones.

Its not something you can force the whole population of America to adopt in one fell swoop.

People who advocate this sort of thing, while well-meaning, do not live in the real world.

You are so right. My son and daughter both just built new homes. A geothermal system for my son's home would have been $40,000. Absolutely out of the question. Even solar panel systems were priced in this area at tens of thousands of dollars. Ridiculous.

339 hazzyday  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:44:52am

There will be a progressive blog tax for those that are off message for the Obama goals.

340 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:45:19am

re: #127 Reluctant Democrat

I'm in despair. Does anybody out there voting for Obama know about or even care about this stuff?! I could accept Obama winning fair and square, but people are basing their vote completely on lies of omission!

I sincerely believe that the left is making it obvious they they are cheating in order to pit one side against the other.

341 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:45:31am

re: #332 lostlakehiker

With people like you in the world, why, we could actually all be miserable and thank Uncle Sam for the choices of misery we make in our lives.

342 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:46:25am

re: #237 bellamags

OT - If Obama is elected, here is a glimpse of the future:

I own a tanning salon and have to change the lamps out of the beds about once per year. I used to take my old lamps to the local dump and they would dispose of them for around seventeen cents each. I take roughly 350 lamps. I would cost me around $60.
A month ago I pulled up to the dump and she said "we don't take those anymore. You have to call this number". I called them and they offered to come get them and dispose of them for the low low price of $3.00 each!
They are still sitting in my garage.

Many a liberal would have already disposed of them in some alley down round the biz district.

343 jainphx  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:46:49am

Can anyone listen to this guy, and not come away with the fact he's a COMMUNIST. HOW can any freedom loving HUMAN hear this guy with out pucking.

344 SurferDoc  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:46:54am

re: #333 joan

Obama is a Prick. Smug little prick. the 'rats will destroy us.

Yeah, I know that isn't edifying. Sorry.

Not edifying? I feel exalted by it!

345 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:47:20am

re: #335 sagamoregal

If McCain does begrudgingly win this thing on Tues, can we please get a Secretary of Education who pulls a page out of the Leftist playbook and makes it *mandatory* that every U.S. high school student read everything that George Orwell and Ayn Rand wrote so we never EVER get this close again to a Marxist Socialist/Communist government? 30 years of the NEA mindnumbing our children won't be overturned overnight but we have to start somewhere!

That would solve 90% of our problems and you'd see some witch in a corner wearing an NEA pin shrieking "I'm MELTING AWAY!"

346 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:47:44am

re: #337 redshirt


Good luck with him answering your question. He hasn't answered mine as to whether he rides a bicycle or drives a car.

347 sagamoregal  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:47:57am

re: #280 Killian Bundy

"Check back next Wednesday.

Oh look, we have a well regulated civilian militia."

IMO, at the core of this Civilian defense force or whatever in the hell he'll
call it, will be the new law that only members of this "CDF" are allowed to own guns. It will be his way of getting around the 2nd Amendment.

Enough RINO's will fall for it and almost every judge in the land will rubberstamp it. We're doomed.

348 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:48:47am
349 windbrother  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:50:01am

re: #290 rightymouse

I shouldn't, really shouldn't, take this bait. Let's just say *I* do bike. Although I own a car, I don't use it very much. I go hunting with my father who has for the past 30 years commuted to work on a bike and we use his truck. Biking is in my family.

As is using little energy. I live close enough to my work I can walk/bike. I buy food from a farmers' market. I invested on energy efficient appliances and insulation. I have a modest condo in a city that I can walk to what I want to go to at a job that I enjoy. I have a roommate and recycle.

Not wasting money is a part of being thrifty. If you learn to live without having to drive, buy your food cheaply at a farmers' market and prepare it yourself, then regardless of whether times are good or bad you will save money.

And as far as it being your *right*, let's just get one thing straight here. The Constitution guarantees life, liberty, and the right to pursue happiness.

It does not guarantee the right to have a car. It does not guarantee the right to be profilgate in your energy usage or anything else. The fact of the matter is that waste is waste, and I intend to call it that! Electricity prices are going up all the time, but if you don't use very much then it's a much less significant blow.

350 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:50:19am

should the obamassiah win ,his true nature will inevitably come out and America's experiment with socialism and radical social engineering will last exactly four years and will be a long term disaster for the left.Possibly showing the voting public what this hair brained nonsense actually looks like would be worth it.

351 gymnast  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:50:42am

re: #61 Cognito

Man, that's disturbing stuff.

Sure is, and largely ignored (spiked) by an ignorant news media with a left wing agenda.

352 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:51:23am

re: #332 lostlakehiker

Take as given that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, that our use of it is changing our climate

So you, like Al Gore, beleives that the debate is over?
Please tell me why the polar caps on MARS are shrinking? Is it due to my Ford Explorer?

353 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:52:53am

re: #186 gop_patriot

tenant tenet

354 windbrother  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:53:29am

re: #337 redshirt

Actually, since they worked with the architect in detail it cost less than 5% of the total price of the house, not including land. You have to do your research and really know what to ask for. And it will take an architect that can extensively modify plans (if it's a subdivision) or do a good custom job (if it's not). But when you pick an architect that specializes in this kind of thing, it really doesn't add much. You just have to design it in at the beginning.

It's just like any product a business makes - if you design security, user-friendliness, and ease of maintenance in at the beginning in the requirements phase it will cost you less than 10% of the final price. Trying to retrofit in on causes skyrocketing costs and cost overruns out the wazoo, not to mention tons of product fixes and recalls.

355 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:53:31am

re: #311 jaunte

When we all live like Obama's half-brother George, in a 2x3 meter house, then we will have achieved true energy efficiency.

You betcha!
And I just KNOW that Windbrother and lostlakehiker will have no problem living like George - for the common good and energy conservation and price control and all that. And while they eat sliced rice and weenie skins by candle light, they'll be thanking Obama for being so enlightened.

356 gymnast  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:53:52am

re: #350 mahatma coat

should the obamassiah win ,his true nature will inevitably come out and America's experiment with socialism and radical social engineering will last exactly four years and will be a long term disaster for the left.Possibly showing the voting public what this hair brained nonsense actually looks like would be worth it.

You may be forgetting that Obama and his close friends, advisors and handlers ascribe to democracy as a one vote, one time, kind of thing.

357 Shr_Nfr  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:54:18am

OK, so lets say I go solar. Which btw, I have done. So far I have put in about $30K on solar panels, $18K on batteries, $2K on wire, $4K+ on charge controllers and inverters, random amounts on conduit, connectors, and so forth, and have gotten about $4k back in tax breaks. That means that my system has run me around $50K+ in after tax expenditures. Meanwhile Barry will tax the crap out of me because I have the capital to do this thus insuring I can't. This ahole couldn't run a hot dog stand at the main gate of the superbowl much less a country.

In my case, the solar system is to get off the net. No big global warming crud, just off the damn net. Its crumbling fast. If bozo gets in, it will crumble faster. You will get a first hand look at what it is like to live in a 3rd world country.

358 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:54:47am

re: #349 windbrother

The Constitution guarantees life, liberty, and the right to pursue happiness.

It does not guarantee the right to have a car.

Please show me where in the Constitution it states that a Gov't entity has the right to limit what NATURAL resources I get to use!?!

359 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:55:05am

re: #196 MandyManners

And, the bulb is sitting in the Oval Office.

hahaahahahahhahahahhahaaha

360 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:55:30am

re: #346 rightymouse

Well, ya, I kinda figured it was gonna be a rhetorical question!
I forgot to add that the local paper ran a story on solar systems for homes in my area, and that the average cost was $21,000!
They also ran a story about solar hot water. Said it would save X amount on energy ( I can't remember how much). At the end of the story, if you got that far, it said that it only worked during the day, and it relied on your regular hot water heater for use at night or during overcast days! That is kind of a bizarre after thought! If you still have to keep water hot in your heater during the day for use at night, you have officially saved ZERO.

361 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:56:22am

re: #356 gymnast


El presidente for life Obama

362 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:56:43am

re: #355 rightymouse

You betcha!
And I just KNOW that Windbrother and lostlakehiker will have no problem living like George - for the common good and energy conservation and price control and all that. And while they eat sliced rice and weenie skins by candle light, they'll be thanking Obama for being so enlightened.

In his well lit full to bursting pantry having home. . .on our dime. . .

363 gymnast  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:58:35am

re: #358 sattv4u2

The Constitution guarantees life, liberty, and the right to pursue happiness.

It does not guarantee the right to have a car.

Please show me where in the Constitution it states that a Gov't entity has the right to limit what NATURAL resources I get to use!?!

Au contrare! The Constitution does guarentee individual property rights! Individual liberty and property rights are among the first and foremost reasons for the revolution that led to the creation of this country.

364 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:58:42am

re: #352 sattv4u2

Take as given that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, that our use of it is changing our climate

So you, like Al Gore, beleives that the debate is over?
Please tell me why the polar caps on MARS are shrinking? Is it due to my Ford Explorer?

Pssst, Goracle, it might have to do with this big, powerful, thingy called the Sun! It, eh, Flares every now and then, causing temperatures to rise, zounds!

365 kansas  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:59:01am

Maybe all us middle class can build cardboard shacks on the White House Lawn. Call it Obamaville.

366 jemima  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:59:07am

#263

I feed my bullmastiffs from the human food chain only. 20 lbs of brown rice was $10 in the spring. Last week same bag was $20.99.

367 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:59:15am

re: #235 BaseballMom57

Are you missing a sarc tag, or are you serious?

It's a hoax.

368 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:59:26am
369 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:59:37am

re: #363 gymnast

Au contrare! The Constitution does guarentee individual property rights! Individual liberty and property rights are among the first and foremost reasons for the revolution that led to the creation of this country.

I didn't write the phrase It does not guarantee the right to have a car.. That was in #349. I was RESPONDING to it

370 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 10:59:47am

349 windbrother

It does not guarantee the right to have a car. It does not guarantee the right to be profilgate in your energy usage or anything else. The fact of the matter is that waste is waste, and I intend to call it that! Electricity prices are going up all the time, but if you don't use very much then it's a much less significant blow.

Who are you to determine for others what is waste and what is not?

You are on a computer right now sucking up electricity. I'd say you're setting a bad example for yourself, even though I could care less one way or another whether you indulge yourself in cyberspace or not.

I do have the right to live my life the way I see fit, not by the whims of people like you.

Thank you very much.

371 gymnast  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:00:11am

re: #361 mahatma coat

El presidente for life Obama

I believe Obama has already said that he will not be able to accomplish all that he wishes in 8 years.

372 pegcity  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:00:12am

im so happy that we have a conservative government in canada.

the liberals were proposing this crap and the Canadian people said NO

373 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:01:03am

re: #368 buzzsawmonkey

One man's 'waste' is another man's livelihood.

374 kansas  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:01:31am

re: #367 debutaunt

It's a hoax.

Funny how we manage to point out every anti Obama hoax yet the other side has no such desire to do the same for Sarah Palin or John McCain. Maybe we can be proud in our defeat.

375 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:01:33am
376 Zimriel  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:02:00am

Obama speaks with the voice of a lab tech studying rats in a cage. If a rat goes the wrong way, it is given a mild electric shock until it behaves appropriately.

377 gymnast  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:02:47am

re: #369 sattv4u2

I didn't write the phrase It does not guarantee the right to have a car.. That was in #349. I was RESPONDING to it

Sorry for the error. Please redirect my comment to the obvious Moby at 349!

378 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:02:48am

re: #349 windbrother

Please tell where the constitution grants the federal government the power to levy taxes as a means to regulate public behavior.
The enumeration clause is pretty clear.
And if your parents house cost, I assume 500,000, that means those upgrades cost approx 50K. That is almost my salary. That is a crushing number. How many of us can even afford to build our own houses?

379 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:02:52am

re: #368 buzzsawmonkey

re: #373 jaunte

One man's 'waste' is another man's livelihood.

GREAT point. I think going to a tanning salon/ getting a pedicure/ buying a cone at an expensice Ice Cream stand is wasteful. Should we MANDATE that all those businesses are put out of commission because they are , in my mind, WASTEFUL!?!?!

380 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:03:21am

re: #360 redshirt

Well, ya, I kinda figured it was gonna be a rhetorical question!
I forgot to add that the local paper ran a story on solar systems for homes in my area, and that the average cost was $21,000!
They also ran a story about solar hot water. Said it would save X amount on energy ( I can't remember how much). At the end of the story, if you got that far, it said that it only worked during the day, and it relied on your regular hot water heater for use at night or during overcast days! That is kind of a bizarre after thought! If you still have to keep water hot in your heater during the day for use at night, you have officially saved ZERO.

We've looked at various options. Have taken a look at geo-thermal. Would like to know people who have actually had that for a while and have done price comparisons.

381 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:03:30am
382 vapig  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:03:54am

re: #258 Spiny Norman

The Democrats surely know this, too. That may be why the Obama campaign is running massive amounts of advertising in states the Media thought they had in the bag, like Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio.

I can tell you here in Virginia I can't even answer my phone anymore. We are being BOMBARDED by "the one."

I can't wait until this is over.

383 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:04:10am

re: #379 sattv4u2

Or, if everyone buys from 'farmer's markets' what happens to all the employees of conventional supermarkets?

384 JustAGal  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:04:30am

re: #376 Zimriel

Mercy - sometimes the O and Biden remind me of Pinky and the Brain. Wanting to take over the world.

If enough of us get out the word and get the McCain/Palin voters to the polls, we can send him back to the lab.

385 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:05:25am

re: #378 redshirt

How many of us can even afford to build our own houses?

With the money you would save if you would just properly inflate your tires, keep your thermostat at 72 degrees year round, and took cold showers you too could build a 500K house!

386 kansas  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:06:14am

re: #384 JustAGal

Mercy - sometimes the O and Biden remind me of Pinky and the Brain. Wanting to take over the world.

If enough of us get out the word and get the McCain/Palin voters to the polls, we can send him back to the lab.

Except for the 20% who have already voted. Sheesh. This is all way too late.

387 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:06:35am

re: #332 lostlakehiker

Please read.
You know better than MIT scientists?
Listen, it may be true. But without absolute scientific proof, ruining our economy is astoundingly suicidal.

388 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:07:04am

re: #375 buzzsawmonkey

I'm hoping he doesn't get the chance for the first four.

Honestly, if elected, even with a supermajority, much of what he will do will cause proles to get fired and laid off at a frightening pace. Even career part hack politicians want some sort of job security.
Things might go so badly for comrade 0 that he might be forced to abandon Marx for Mises!

389 gop_patriot  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:07:27am

re: #353 debutaunt

tenant tenet

Eh, sorry. I was ranting. lol

390 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:08:06am

re: #371 gymnast

I don't believe for a second the American public would stand for any term limit changes for this soon too be deeply unpopular clown .(assuming he's elected which I think is no certainty) America is not some banana republic.I have great faith in your defense of your democracy.You sometimes seem a nation of masochists ,given your tolerance of the fact that kicking America is an international passtime with international institutions devoted to it (ie. the UN) But there is a limit to your tolerance

391 shiek al beif salami  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:08:56am

re: #349 windbrother

All the Constitution guarantees is that some God-damned bureaucracy has no authority to determine whether I ride a bike or drive a car, where I go and why I go. These are matters determined by free citizens in free markets.

Live free or die.

392 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:09:36am

re: #384 JustAGal

LOL....pinky and the brain ....spot on ,priceless

393 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:09:40am

re: #391 shiek al beif salami

All the Constitution guarantees is that some God-damned bureaucracy has no authority to determine whether I ride a bike or drive a car, where I go and why I go. These are matters determined by free citizens in free markets.

Live free or die.

I'd upding you a gazillion times if I could. :)

394 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:11:09am
395 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:13:47am

re: #380 rightymouse

We've looked at various options. Have taken a look at geo-thermal. Would like to know people who have actually had that for a while and have done price comparisons.


Hey, I'm in Phoenix, I would be the first in line for a cost effective solar system.
Funny thing to realize though: If a solar system works as well as it should, I wouldn't even need a $7000 16 SEER air conditioner! If I am producing all my own electricity, I could use as much damn electricity as I wanted! I could buy a 12 SEER system for $3000 and keep my house at 72 degrees, keep all my lights on and turn my stereo up to 11.
Alternate energy and conservation are potentially mutually exclusive!

396 windbrother  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:15:32am

re: #378 redshirt

that was a decade ago and the total price was 1/3 of that. And in any case that's in the grey area now called exurbia. Ground source heat pumps and the like were relatively cheap ten-twelve years ago because no one really used them then and they had a long wait time - this house was planned over two years. They were a niche product then. Right now there is a *HUGE* demand for them and the manufacturers are backordered. So of course the price is getting jacked up. It's just like anything else - when demand goes up, so does price. And people generally don't order them a year or two in advance it's generally a wow this is a good-idea-let's-buy-one type of thing.

And also, designing in good insulation and passive solar adds less than 3% to the house. Thermal mass (e.g. brick / concrete / earth) is cheap. Tri-pane low-e windows (when the house is built) cost less than one percent more of total construction costs - and changing the walls to R-40 and the ceiling to R-60+ only costs a few hundred more for the added thickness in insulation (although it needs to be blown and still requires moisture barriers).

397 NYCHardhat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:18:34am

If any of you are familiar with armageddon, this is the first step.

398 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:19:06am

re: #395 redshirt


Alternate energy and conservation are potentially mutually exclusive!

Right now, you are correct. It's expensive and the results in terms of actual conservation aren't clear at all. Just a lot of babble and promises. That said, I'm open to cost effective alternatives and ones that actually do a decent job. It's no fun to spend tens of thousands of dollars on heating alternatives, for instance, and then freeze in the winter. We live in Ohio.

Am looking at a coal furnace though as a possible addition. I know folks here who have a coal and conventional furnace.

399 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:21:48am

re: #396 windbrother

that was a decade ago and the total price was 1/3 of that.

Now I KNOW you're full of crap. A decade ago, "energy efficient" architecturally designed houses cost MORE than they do now, not less

REASONS ,,, market forces. The appliances, hardware and labor are less expensive today than they were then. More manufactures, better designs, more companies that know how to install. (that pesky free market at work again)

400 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:24:38am

re: #396 windbrother

OK I appreciate the thoughtful answer, but it really isn't very useful. Most Americans simply will never have the option of building a new custom home. Retrofitting, I hope you will acknowledge, is prohibitively expensive.
In today's new home market, keep in mind that, if mandated, adding a mere 5% to the cost of the home will further decrease new home sales. It might be something to aspire to, but it just aint gonna happen.
Hyper efficiency will remain in the realm of rich peoples homes. And if their taxes go up like Obama promises, then a number of them will opt not to make those decisions in order to save themselves some money.

401 VioletTiger  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:26:25am

Are price signals anything like smoke signals? Do you think there will be a ban on boiling water, you know, generating that most common greenhouse gas--WATER VAPOR!

402 redshirt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:26:25am

re: #398 rightymouse

Am looking at a coal furnace though as a possible addition.


Coal Furnace! You planet killer!
JK LOL!

403 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:26:26am

Eh...I'm going to take a nice, hot, soaky shower and pollute my septic system.

Later!

404 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:27:07am

re: #402 redshirt

Coal Furnace! You planet killer!
JK LOL!

I know. My bad. lol!

405 windbrother  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:29:55am

re: #399 sattv4u2

Not when you've been part of the passive solar / energy efficient design movement for 15 years prior. You know the tricks. And can get existing plans from an architect that only have to modified. If you've planned for a new house for over a decade and done the actual designing for two years, then that's a different question. And you don't have to go with the highest efficiency appliances if the house itself costs almost nothing to heat and cool. Again, triple-pane low-e high end stuff + R-40+ in the walls, R-60+ in the ceilings and thermal mass with moisture and air barriers on a southern exposure will obviate the need to buy terribly efficient appliances. Especially given that geothermal heat pumps can pre-heat water...

406 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:31:20am

I rarely turn on the heat,I have a coal/peat /timber fire going every night from Oct. to April.But then again it very rarely goes below 0C in Ireland

407 debutaunt  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:31:35am

re: #374 kansas

Funny how we manage to point out every anti Obama hoax yet the other side has no such desire to do the same for Sarah Palin or John McCain. Maybe we can be proud in our defeat.

We continue to deal with reality. It's what we do.

408 windbrother  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:31:57am

re: #399 sattv4u2

And also, cost is extremely dependent on labor and materials. A house in rural wherever in the midwest or south or whatnot will cost extremely little to build, both because of infinitely lower land and labor costs. a $500k house in say, Seattle or whatnot would be $175k or less in certain exurban areas.

409 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:35:28am

re: #394 buzzsawmonkey

Nobody has ever explained to me how all this "solar, wind, and biothermal" energy is going to run automobiles.

You know why? Because it won't.

In theory it will.
Electric cars wth rechargeable batteries powered from the main grid, fed in turn by all the excess power uploaded to the grid from these various energy sources.
Of course this will require massive expansion and upgrades to the main grid.
Along these lines, I recently saw a documentary on oil-poor Portugal of all places, which IIRC now produces 42% of its energy from tide, wind and solar.

410 Nancy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:35:51am

Sometimes the clueless of politicians is mind-boggling.
Perfect example in Obama mentioning people driving around gas guzzling SUV's as though a number of families do not NEED to have a bigger vehicle.

Anyone with more than 2 children, has to in most states, have a big vehicle. Cars seats are mandated --I believe in most states if not nationwide --for ALL children under a certain age and I know for a fact in many states all children under 18 MUST be in a seat belt even in the back seat.

Since car seats require seat belt use --anyone with more than 3 children HAS to have an SUV with the extra seats and seat belts.

And then you also have families and even retired persons who can't afford hotels and luxury vacations who go camping. They have to have a bigger vehicle to pull a camper

Is Obama's plan then to put extra fees and tax burdens on larger families who HAVE to have a bigger vehicle because it is against the law for them to NOT have their children in car seats and seat belts; or make it too costly for those on more limited incomes to vacation more cheaply, he is in fact punishing and penalizing primarily the middle class, families and retired persons. Or persons who need a bigger vehicle for their equipment --self employed painters, carpenters etc.

I am astonished at how short-sighted some people can be. Obama falls in that category.

His campaign theme has been change. Unfortunately, he never spelled out that his goal was to use government to change people --not change government to serve the people.

411 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:36:46am

re: #405 windbrother

You're laughable. Even "IF YOU KNOW ALL THE TRICKS", Even IF you were to get EVERY appliance at cost. Even IF you had your plans modified a dozen times does NOT mitigate the FACT ot costs SUBSTANTIALLY less to bould an energy efficient home from scartch than it did a decade ago?

Wanna know WHY I know? I'll give you three guesses, and the 1st 2 don't count!

Your bloviating posts notwithstanding!

412 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:39:03am

re: #400 redshirt

Everything he's posted has been "thoughtful", but utterly useless in any practical manner. High-minded and long-winded hypotheticals with little connection to real world economics.

413 Canard51  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:39:04am

I am 58 year old Canadian who has been watching the US election with a strange sense on Deja Vu. In 1968 I was 18 years old, young and impressionable. I supported Pierre Trudeau in that June election and have regretted it ever since. He was a demonstrable disaster for Canada in every respect. His Machiavelli impersonation, his deceit and his hidden agenda for Canada left a weakened democracy and a house divided against inself. The lack of understanding of basic economics created the seeds of massive government deficits that we wrestle with to this day. His decision to move the country to the left by assocaition with the socialist party, the NDP, and the ecomomic war declared on the West through the National Energy Program are all legacies that make me wish I had the smarts in 1968 to see through the media fog of Trudeaumania.

Here’s the deal, I believe Obama is much worse than Trudeau. His associations with known domestic terrorists and learnings from avowed marxists leave me shaking my head. The complete collapse of the media in terms of due diligence turns my stomach. The fact that the US is the world’s only superpower and the office of president will be occupied by this empty suit is sad and scary. If you are a young American and you are reading this post please do not vote with your heart like I did in 1968. Use your head and send this pretender back to Chicago.

414 BillLangston  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:40:42am

re: #8 wildcat84

NeoComs; perfect! I'm gonna surely remember this and thanks for thinking it up and sharing it.

SF
Bill

415 JWill  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:41:44am

At 44 I had an accident inside a trailer WITH a horse. A dozen surgical procedures later, I was completely disabled. Having paid SSI for almost 30 years(that would be 15% of my gross income), I had to file for these government mandated benefits.

From the day of the accident to filing for SSI: 4 years
From the day of filing to final appeal on my day in court: 3 years 7 months
Time without a single paycheck: 7 years 7 months

Going through the SS process is one thats insult to injury. "We aren't in business to underwrite your inconveniences" "Hey, it makes no matter to me if you get your benefits or not. I go home and sleep good either way"

My wife has been working 60-80 hour weeks the entire time so we wouldn't loose our stuff and default all outstanding loans. Thank GAWD for her.

I finally getting my benefits. Minus 30% for the lawyer that I'd have gotten ZERO without.

When bureaucrats get to manage the things in your life, heartache is soon to follow.

416 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:44:40am

re: #413 Canard51

Well said. We are still living with the legacy of four miserable years of Jimmy Carter and I am dumbfounded that half the country seems to want to return to that disaster.

417 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:46:21am

re: #413 Canard51
I grew up in Canada and couldn't agree more.Trudopia was an absolute disas ter from which Canada has yet to recover.The sense of entitlement and the ingrained belief in socialist policies will be a lasting legacy.I'd consider Harper to be to the left of the democratic party

418 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:47:19am

re: #416 Spiny Norman

Well said. We are still living with the legacy of four miserable years of Jimmy Carter and I am dumbfounded that half the country seems to want to return to that disaster.

Half the country doesn't recall the "misery index". Also, unlike then, more than half the country is NOT self sufficient as we were then. What I mean is, there are many many many more people dependent on some sort of gov't assistance now than then

(you don't bite the hand that feeds ya)

419 Adina in Judea  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:47:47am

There doesn't seem to be any aspect of life in America that Obama doesn't intend to destroy or transform in some way.

Obama seems to think he's going to be playing Monopoly (or Sim City.)

He wants to play with all of our lives and change us all to suit him.

When does he intend to start up the re-education camps?

This is the only part of his Weathermen scheme that he hasn't revealed.

420 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:49:12am

#410 Nancy: "Sometimes the clueless of politicians is mind-boggling.
Perfect example in Obama mentioning people driving around gas guzzling SUV's as though a number of families do not NEED to have a bigger vehicle.Anyone with more than 2 children, has to in most states, have a big vehicle. Cars seats are mandated --I believe in most states if not nationwide --for ALL children under a certain age and I know for a fact in many states all children under 18 MUST be in a seat belt even in the back seat.

Since car seats require seat belt use --anyone with more than 3 children HAS to have an SUV with the extra seats and seat belts."

DING! DING! DING! A well deserved BUMP!
Yet another reality b!tchslap to the elitists 0bamunist from the proles.

421 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:49:29am
422 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:49:35am

re: #419 Adina in Judea

the communist "great march through the institutions" is nearly complete

423 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:49:59am

re: #130 arethusa

All this "price control" stuff reminds me of the Roman Emperor Diocletian's Edict on Maximum Prices in 301. It tried to fix the Roman economy by combating inflation caused by a wildly debased coinage and setting prices for common goods. It just ended up making things worse and contributed to the decline of Rome. Obama's suggestion is for "behavioral" reasons, but messes with the economy as well, in ways as fundamental as Diocletian, without balancing it out. I expect it will have a similar effect.

OK, rest assured, that's the classical snippet for the day.

Apparently also tried and failed in 14th century France.

424 pingjockey  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:50:05am

Any goddamn idiot that doesn't realize obambi is a socialist and wants to recreate this country into a socialist hell hole with everyone except his elitist buddies in the same misery scale is deluded and should be locked up for their own safety.

425 mahatma coat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:51:05am

re: #421 buzzsawmonkey

yes but they're great for pickin' up chicks

426 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:51:12am
427 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:52:46am

re: #424 pingjockey

Any goddamn idiot that doesn't realize obambi is a socialist and wants to recreate this country into a socialist hell hole with everyone except his elitist buddies in the same misery scale is deluded and should be locked up for their OUR own safety.

sorry ,, but I care more about MY safety than theirs

428 pingjockey  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:55:03am

re: #427 sattv4u2
You are of course correct, should have added that. Trying to watch 2 ball games, do laundry, and comment here!

429 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:55:30am

re: #332 lostlakehiker

Agree with you that a simple carbon tax may make sense.

Disagree on several other details.

430 Adina in Judea  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:55:38am

re: #410 Nancy

Is Obama's plan then to put extra fees and tax burdens on larger families who HAVE to have a bigger vehicle because it is against the law for them to NOT have their children in car seats and seat belts; or make it too costly for those on more limited incomes to vacation more cheaply, he is in fact punishing and penalizing primarily the middle class, families and retired persons. Or persons who need a bigger vehicle for their equipment --self employed painters, carpenters etc.

Some of the behavior Obama wants to change is the size of families for people who work for a living. He wants middle class families to be smaller.

Of course, those who don't work would keep having very large families and be rewarded for it by getting money from the middle class whose behavior Obama intends to change so that they work more, have fewer children, and pay more of their income to those who don't work or who work a lot less.

Of course, Obama doesn't understand that breeding the middle class out of existence, pretty much, wouldn't hand the money and the country over to those who don't work or who work a lot less. Breeding taxpayers out of existence and still expecting them to pay for everything that Obama wants in the future is a ticket to nowhere.

431 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:56:43am

re: #428 pingjockey

You are of course correct, should have added that. Trying to watch 2 ball games, do laundry, and comment here!

okay ,,,, but


STEP AWAY FROM THE LAUNDRY!

Priorities man ,,, priorities!

432 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 11:58:38am
433 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:00:12pm

re: #290 rightymouse

Why is it that you think the government should tell us how to live our lives? If I want to keep all the lights on in my home, that's my business, not your business or Uncle Sam's. I'm not asking either of you to pay my bills.

Do you ride a bicycle or drive a car?

The point is that anyone whose energy derives ultimately from burning fossil fuels is creating negative externalities. Your lights help flood my Galveston. My lights help sear your grass or fire your chaparral.

If climate change is a real problem, then the solution will have to involve either rationing or pricing. Pricing's the better way to go.

Oh, and I both bicycle and drive a car. It depends how far I'm going, and how much cargo I'll need to take along. I'm no Al Gore, preaching global doom while living so large that a small town could manage on his personal energy budget, and a family, on his personal food budget. But I'm no saint either. Build me an electric car at a reasonable price, and I'll drive it around town. Sell me solar-based electricity, and I'll air condition harder during the day when the energy is available, and less at night when it's not. But I'm not keen to be a martyr to conservation and green living.

434 pingjockey  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:00:51pm

re: #431 sattv4u2
Have 3 boys, stepping away from the laundry is not an option! Gotta get it done before 1pm PST. Right now here in the Pacific Northwest I have Packers/Titans and Jets/Bills. Haven't looked at my TV guide to see if I'll get the Cowboys/Giants to go with the Seahawks/Eagles.

435 blue_like_jazz  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:01:24pm

REPOST FROM PREVIOUS THREAD, FYI:

re: #12 windbrother

McCain wants cap-and-trade as well.

And quite frankly, please remember that coal may be a necessary evil but it is not desirable. Both the mercury emissions and megatons of radioactive materials released into the atmosphere and the fact that fly ash is richer in those materials than some pitchblende.

We can move away from coal. T. Boone Pickens and others like him have good points. CNG for transport rather than generation.

And if we really wanted to, we could build a couple hundred reactors in ten years, although it would require huge investments and Manhattan Project style work. We have advanced Gen III+ designs that have already been approved and some Gen IV designs (I like thorium based designs myself). And there are solutions to the waste problem other than burying the stuff - MOX fuel, reprocessing, Integral Fast Reactor (fast neutrons achieve 95% fuel burnup), and plenty of others.


You, sir, are a complete and total moron

Do some research before you spew ignorant lefty talking points, will you?

My husband works in this industry. All old coal-burning plants are being RETROFITTED so that they are clean-burning. This means that all that comes out of the smokestacks is STEAM. All of the fly ash, etc. is captured, proecessed onsite, and turned into products like drywall.

All NEW coal-burning plants are being built with these capacities intact.

Duke Energy is making progress with these technologies by leaps and bounds and continues to set a standard for the industry (disclaimer: my husband does NOT work for Duke or any of its subsidiaries).

To conclude: The new coal burning plants are some of the cleanest and greenest means of producing energy.

436 pingjockey  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:04:07pm

re: #433 lostlakehiker
If you live out here in the boonies, a bicycle is not feasible. 20 mile commutes to work are common. NO FRAKKIN' CARBON TAXES. It is a sham and away to separate me from MY money I earned, not some fucking elitist bureaucrat asshat.

437 Malleus Dei  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:05:47pm

That statement is yet another reason why Obama shouldn't be elected even to dogcatcher.

438 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:07:16pm

re: #433 lostlakehiker

If climate change is a real problem

I can eleiminate that IF for you when you consider a couple of FACTS

"Climate Change" is cyclical. (I'm sure you're aware that we have had ice ages, mini ice ages, as well as periods of warming in-between)(If you are not aware of that, do some research)

Consider that at the same time the Earths polar caps are "melting', so are Mars's. Could you please explain to me how my SUV is affecting Mar's solar cap? ALSO, Although our North Pole IS decreasing, our South Pole is thicker than it has been in decades.

439 dkorta  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:07:27pm

re: #433 lostlakehiker

>If climate change is a real problem, then the solution will have to involve >either rationing or pricing.

Climate change is not a real problem. The climate is always changing. People who believe climate change is a problem are the problem. Especially if they are capable of making the rest of us suffer for their beliefs.

440 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:09:13pm

re: #348 buzzsawmonkey

Why?

Because that's how the science has sorted out. You can find a few PhD's who don't believe in evolution, and you can find a few who don't believe in global warming, and you can even find a few who don't believe cigarettes cause lung cancer and don't believe HIV causes AIDS. But the verdict is basically in. It's a question now of what we do about it.

Bjorn Lomborg has made a good point: drastic controls on emissions will cost us more than spending some on coping, and some on more modest controls on emissions. But we'll need to do something about emissions.

The shame of it is that if we'd get cracking on building nuclear power plants, we could have our baseload electricity, and not worry about CO2. We could use electricity to recharge batteries and run the daily ratrace without any need of gasoline. That's nice for global warming, but it's also important to national security.

Think back to this post when you're stuck in line waiting your chance to buy your quota of gasoline at $10.00 per gallon, during the next embargo or war.

441 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:09:38pm

#424 pingjockey:
"Any goddamn idiot that doesn't realize obambi is a COMMUNIST and wants to recreate this country into a MARXIST hell hole with everyone except his elitist buddies in the same misery scale is deluded and should be locked up for their own safety."

Fixed it for ya!

442 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:09:43pm

re: #433 lostlakehiker

If climate change is a real problem

Please tell me at what temerpature is "ideal" or "normal" for the Earth? You must have a baseline of "X" to determine if you are now above "X" or below"X"

443 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:11:14pm

re: #438 sattv4u2

If climate change is a real problem

I can eleiminate that IF for you when you consider a couple of FACTS

"Climate Change" is cyclical. (I'm sure you're aware that we have had ice ages, mini ice ages, as well as periods of warming in-between)(If you are not aware of that, do some research)

Consider that at the same time the Earths polar caps are "melting', so are Mars's. Could you please explain to me how my SUV is affecting Mar's solar cap? ALSO, Although our North Pole IS decreasing, our South Pole is thicker than it has been in decades.

Amen, at one time the climate was so "changed" that we had gators in the Dakotas, and, Shocka, the world didn't end!

444 pingjockey  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:11:34pm

re: #441 Marlin925That post has had more revisions than obambis tax plan!

445 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:12:16pm

re: #410 Nancy

Sometimes the clueless of politicians is mind-boggling.
Perfect example in Obama mentioning people driving around gas guzzling SUV's as though a number of families do not NEED to have a bigger vehicle.

Anyone with more than 2 children, has to in most states, have a big vehicle. Cars seats are mandated --I believe in most states if not nationwide --for ALL children under a certain age and I know for a fact in many states all children under 18 MUST be in a seat belt even in the back seat.

Since car seats require seat belt use --anyone with more than 3 children HAS to have an SUV with the extra seats and seat belts.

And then you also have families and even retired persons who can't afford hotels and luxury vacations who go camping. They have to have a bigger vehicle to pull a camper

Is Obama's plan then to put extra fees and tax burdens on larger families who HAVE to have a bigger vehicle because it is against the law for them to NOT have their children in car seats and seat belts; or make it too costly for those on more limited incomes to vacation more cheaply, he is in fact punishing and penalizing primarily the middle class, families and retired persons. Or persons who need a bigger vehicle for their equipment --self employed painters, carpenters etc.

I am astonished at how short-sighted some people can be. Obama falls in that category.

His campaign theme has been change. Unfortunately, he never spelled out that his goal was to use government to change people --not change government to serve the people.

Nancy -

I will respectfully disagree with you to an extent. Same discussion I had with Sean Hannity in 2003. Posit 4 vehicles as follows:

1. Station Wagon - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 23-25 mpg. These are scarce as hen's teeth today.
2. Mini-Van or Crossover, 2 Wheel Drive - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 21 mpg.
4. Mid-Size SUV - Probably 4 Wheel Drive, 6 cyl - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 16 mpg.
5. Full Size SUV - Probably 4 Wheel Drive, 8 cyl - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 12 - 14 mpg.

All of the above are 7 Passenger Vehicles and except for the GM Suburban and Ford Expedition Extended have little room for "stuff" behind the third row of seats. All have their uses - think towing and off-roading here - that increases as fuel economy decreases. You figure out your needs, you pay your money and make your choice. Were it mine, an extended Mini-Van would be my choice. My needs are less and as disclaimer have a Ford Focus Hatchback, doing a bit better than a station wagon, though not dramatically so as much of my driving is "in town."

-S-

446 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:12:38pm

re: #435 blue_like_jazz

REPOST FROM PREVIOUS THREAD, FYI:

re: #12 windbrother

McCain wants cap-and-trade as well.

And quite frankly, please remember that coal may be a necessary evil but it is not desirable. Both the mercury emissions and megatons of radioactive materials released into the atmosphere and the fact that fly ash is richer in those materials than some pitchblende.

We can move away from coal. T. Boone Pickens and others like him have good points. CNG for transport rather than generation.

And if we really wanted to, we could build a couple hundred reactors in ten years, although it would require huge investments and Manhattan Project style work. We have advanced Gen III+ designs that have already been approved and some Gen IV designs (I like thorium based designs myself). And there are solutions to the waste problem other than burying the stuff - MOX fuel, reprocessing, Integral Fast Reactor (fast neutrons achieve 95% fuel burnup), and plenty of others.


You, sir, are a complete and total moron

Do some research before you spew ignorant lefty talking points, will you?

My husband works in this industry. All old coal-burning plants are being RETROFITTED so that they are clean-burning. This means that all that comes out of the smokestacks is STEAM. All of the fly ash, etc. is captured, proecessed onsite, and turned into products like drywall.

All NEW coal-burning plants are being built with these capacities intact.

Duke Energy is making progress with these technologies by leaps and bounds and continues to set a standard for the industry (disclaimer: my husband does NOT work for Duke or any of its subsidiaries).

To conclude: The new coal burning plants are some of the cleanest and greenest means of producing energy.

Suppose you get all the mercury and radioactives out of the mix. Coal burning plants necessarily produce carbon dioxide. Converting oxygen and carbon into CO2 is what coal burning is. Nobody is building plants that sequester this CO2. Nobody even knows if it can be done at a cost competitive with wind, nuclear, and solar. If that hurdle can be cleared, then I drop my objections to coal. Until then, well, there's still a problem.

447 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:13:29pm

re: #433 lostlakehiker

The point is that anyone whose energy derives ultimately from burning fossil fuels is creating negative externalities. Your lights help flood my Galveston. My lights help sear your grass or fire your chaparral.

Unmitigated bullshit. The is NO connection between CO2 emissions and global temperature increases or (as we are seeing now) decreases. It is a MYTH created by grant-seeking charlatans.

Artificial government-mandated "pricing" to change "behavior" on such a scale is a recipe for economic disaster that would make the panic on Wall Street (also government-engineered) look like child's play.

448 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:14:41pm

re: #433 lostlakehiker

The point is that anyone whose energy derives ultimately from burning fossil fuels is creating negative externalities. Your lights help flood my Galveston. My lights help sear your grass or fire your chaparral.

If climate change is a real problem, then the solution will have to involve either rationing or pricing. Pricing's the better way to go.

Oh, and I both bicycle and drive a car. It depends how far I'm going, and how much cargo I'll need to take along. I'm no Al Gore, preaching global doom while living so large that a small town could manage on his personal energy budget, and a family, on his personal food budget. But I'm no saint either. Build me an electric car at a reasonable price, and I'll drive it around town. Sell me solar-based electricity, and I'll air condition harder during the day when the energy is available, and less at night when it's not. But I'm not keen to be a martyr to conservation and green living.

My lights helped flood Galveston? Really? What caused the flooding of Galveston in 1900? Yer really stretching here, pal.

Climate change is not caused by human activity. The end of the ice age did not occur by taxing dinosaurs, rationing or price controls. And it's so cute that you global warming alarmists started calling it 'climate change' to hedge your bets when you started looking like fools over Gore's nonnsensical 'the planet has a fevah' crap. Climate change has been with us since the dawn of time on earth. Live with that.

On the other hand, millions of people have suffered under enforced rationing and price controls. But hey, if you're all for them, I know a couple of countries you could move to and enjoy yourself.

449 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:18:01pm
450 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:18:23pm

re: #446 lostlakehiker

You play an interesting game. You use a LOT of "suppose"s and "if"s instead of declaritive sentences. State your opinion, back it with facts, not mere conjecture, and you will be taken more seriously, weather someone here agrees with you or not. Some of my most lively interchanges here have been with posters that I was 100% on the other side of the issue from, but they didn't cloak their beleifes with "SUPPOSE IF PERHAPS"

451 shiek al beif salami  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:21:42pm

The government has no real interest in reducing fuel consumption. My commuter car is a 2000 Honda Insight to gets around 70 mpg (I drive it because I am cheap and because I don't want my money to help proselytize for Islam). Each mile I drive it, the government gets less than 1/3 of the road tax they get when I drive my Dodge diesel. They have no reason to encourage reduced consumption - they need the money.

452 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:24:37pm

re: #451 shiek al beif salami

The government has no real interest in reducing fuel consumption. My commuter car is a 2000 Honda Insight to gets around 70 mpg (I drive it because I am cheap and because I don't want my money to help proselytize for Islam). Each mile I drive it, the government gets less than 1/3 of the road tax they get when I drive my Dodge diesel. They have no reason to encourage reduced consumption - they need the money.


not to mention the tax they get on each gallon of gas sold

453 ISraelite  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:25:18pm

"their SUV's"? I know he's an American, but why is he talking about his fellow Americans as "them"?

454 Spiny Norman  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:26:53pm

re: #453 ISraelite

"their SUV's"? I know he's an American, but why is he talking about his fellow Americans as "them"?

Good question.

455 Marlin925  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:29:20pm

453# ISraelite,

He's not one of us, the wretched unwashed who cling to our guns and religion. We are proles to be bashed into line.

456 pegcity  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:30:16pm

re: #453 ISraelite

"their SUV's"? I know he's an American, but why is he talking about his fellow Americans as "them"?

Yeah weird that he didn't say "our" SUV's

457 shiek al beif salami  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:30:17pm

I conserve energy because I am cheap and selfish, which are the only two valid reasons to conserve. We call it enlightened self-interest. Any other reason is just poop.

These idiots who try to tell us to love the earth or to think of future generations are clueless. I'm sick of all these morons who think they've really done something by sorting their garbage or installing $5 lightbulbs (like Obama).

458 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:33:42pm

re: #457 shiek al beif salami

I conserve energy because I am cheap and selfish, which are the only two valid reasons to conserve. We call it enlightened self-interest. Any other reason is just poop.

These idiots who try to tell us to love the earth or to think of future generations are clueless. I'm sick of all these morons who think they've really done something by sorting their garbage or installing $5 lightbulbs (like Obama).

AMEN!

459 Rose Parade  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:35:57pm

I can't believe so many people actually take this guy seriously and think he's good for our country.

He isn't running for president, he's running for dictator. Force changes to my behavior by making goods and services unaffordable? How does that help businesses thrive? Raise gas prices to European levels? If I can't afford to drive to work, how will Dear Leader redistribute my so-called wealth? This guy is un-fucking-believable.

I used to think Obama was just arrogant, delusional and misguided. I now know that he is in fact insane, dangerous and frightening.

460 mattm  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:36:07pm

The video is no longer available. I wonder what the reason for pulling this one was.

461 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:36:40pm

re: #453 ISraelite

re: #454 Spiny Norman

re: #456 pegcity

Yeah weird that he didn't say "our" SUV's

Not at all. The left has been notorious for pitting one group against another
There are no "individulas' in lib speak. Every one is part of a group.

462 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:37:25pm

re: #460 mattm

The video is no longer available. I wonder what the reason for pulling this one was.


It still plays for me.

463 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:40:41pm

re: #456 pegcity

Yeah weird that he didn't say "our" SUV's

Yeah...doesn't he own one?

464 Pigtown Water Dog  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:42:42pm

re: #420 Marlin925


Maybe the Obama doesn't intend for any of us to have three children. Look at the Born Alive Infant Protection act--Now I'm really gonna get on the phone for McCain.
God blass America. Now and Always.

465 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:43:36pm

re: #463 rightymouse

Yeah...doesn't he own one?

I doubt it. The ones used by candidates are usually leased to their respective election orgs and/ or the party

466 exredtory  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:48:46pm

re: #21 MandyManners

Wonder if Ayers will get a dascha.

I already have a dacha myself - a "Dascha" would be nice company out there, though. Nyuk-Nyuk.

As for Obama and his "radical" policies. This stuff barely raises an eyebrow in Canada because we have been living with it for decades now and even conservative governments are reluctant to undo much of it because of the shrieking that ensues among the chattering classes when they try.

A large number of Canadians see nothing radical about Obama's notions of "change' but only how things "ought" to be.

467 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 12:59:38pm

re: #465 sattv4u2

I doubt it. The ones used by candidates are usually leased to their respective election orgs and/ or the party

Yeah..well..he's still riding around in it without complaint. Plus all that airplane travel spewing crap in the air.

468 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:04:07pm

re: #467 rightymouse

Yeah..well..he's still riding around in it without complaint. Plus all that airplane travel Joe Biden spewing crap in the air.

469 shiek al beif salami  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:06:31pm

re: #468 sattv4u2

Damn Learjet liberals.

470 krypto  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:10:31pm

An interesting physics calculation I just found: a typical coal power plant produces energy at the rate of 1000 megawatts, and the question is what area an alternative energy solar panel would need to produce the same energy output, if it were 100% efficient (which it is not). The answer is 1 kilometer by 1 kilometer.

Obama had better switch back to his idea of using tire gauges as a new energy resource. It's more realistic.

471 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:11:50pm

re: #432 buzzsawmonkey

NO "CARBON TAX": NO "CONSUMPTION TAX."

Let people buy what they want as they want, and let their choices be determined by their response to market prices without government interference.

Period.

buzz, it's a bit tough advocating naked laissez faire just right now, y'know?

472 nyc redneck  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:13:59pm

so obama was serious when he said we couldn't use all the gas we wanted or eat all the food we wanted because 3rd world countries would not be OK w/ that.

he really is planning on a full fledged dictatorship.
controlling everything. rationing thru taxes.
hmmm. must come up w/ a recipe for bark soup and pine needle tea.

473 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:16:04pm

re: #470 krypto

An interesting physics calculation I just found: a typical coal power plant produces energy at the rate of 1000 megawatts, and the question is what area an alternative energy solar panel would need to produce the same energy output, if it were 100% efficient (which it is not). The answer is 1 kilometer by 1 kilometer.

And it would only produce max output well less than 8 hours/day, less than 365 days/year.

BUT, neither would it need a constant stream of rail cars to keep it stocked. In fact, the property lines for that coal plant might just be about 1 square kilometer, as well. And there's no downwind plume from the solar panel.

Still, it would require only 1/9 of that area, if it were only in orbit, where it could produce power 24x365.

/numbers

474 shiek al beif salami  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:23:05pm

re: #472 nyc redneck

Obama said that because he is clueless about how markets work. When the price of (demand for) corn goes up here, it provides incentives for farmers around the world (where there are free markets) to grow corn. The more we eat, the more incentive there is for them to grow food either to displace our exports to their countries or to import more here.

I keep hearing the argument that ethanol production in the U.S. creates hunger overseas. A few conservatives even use the argument. The real argument against ethanol is that the government is paying huge subsidies, which in effect subsidize farmers in other countries grow more corn.

475 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:32:10pm

re: #474 shiek al beif salami
It's a more ripple effect than that, even.

More Corn demand (to use for ethanol) means less corn available for food (not only on your grocers shelves, but also as livestock feed
Less available for feed means higher costs to the cattle/ pig/ chicken farmer
Higher cost to the cattle/ pig/ chicken farmer means higher cost in the grocery store for beef/ pork/ chicken/ eggs/ butter/ milk

ALL so we can have 10% ethanol in our gas !?!?!?

DRILL HERE ,,, DRILL NOW !

476 shiek al beif salami  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:39:17pm

re: #475 sattv4u2

I don't disagree that the government intervention raises food prices in the short-term (until markets around the world have a chance to respond to higher prices with increased production), but the higher price is an incentive to produce more food, albeit at the cost of subsidy to American taxpayers.

The market gets something not really wanted (more ethanol) at a subsidized price.

477 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:41:30pm

re: #476 shiek al beif salami

I don't disagree that the government intervention raises food prices in the short-term (until markets around the world have a chance to respond to higher prices with increased production), but the higher price is an incentive to produce more food, albeit at the cost of subsidy to American taxpayers.

The market gets something not really wanted (more ethanol) at a subsidized price.


Demand is the incentive to produce more. Markets abhor a vacuum. If there is a demand, they will come (grow, build, provide.)

478 Annar  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 1:59:25pm

re: #33 mitthrawnurdo

I hate people that say "we (the US) should be like Europe". Why? Fascism and Communism both have their roots from Europe.

" (The) dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe" -- Tom Wolfe

479 rollingdivision  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 2:05:15pm

Obama is an extremely dangerous true believer like Hitler, Mao, Stalin, et al. He will be even more dangerous if given the opportunity. Ruthless and evil will be how history records him.

480 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 2:35:46pm

FWIW this is completely in line with Marcusian theory of the "Great Refusal" where repressive institutions are undermined by negative behaviors (negation).

In this case, consumerism itself is the repressive institution - Marcuse attacked the rising standard of living (that is right) that the proletariat enjoy due to capitalism as a repressive force on the basis that it makes them more materialistic and pulls them into an oppressive order of consumption, where their authentic needs are replaced with artificial needs created by advertising and whatnot.

The "solution" is to break the cycle and wean the consumer away from the system of repression. Taxing such behavior is one tactic.

Marcuse had particular contempt for diversionary products that blunt or redirect the passion of the proletariat. Professional sports was subject to particular derision in One Dimensional Man.

So who was this Marcuse guy? He is the doyenne philosopher of the New Left, and a strong intellectual supporter of the 60s radical student movement and harsh critic of capitalism and soviet style Marxism.

This is a brand of Marxism that they didn't teach you in school.

481 Colonel Panik  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 2:50:37pm

re: #421 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, there will be electrically driven vehicles, but they will have a smaller gas or diesel engine to drive the generator for the electric motors. Oshkosh is producing such a vehicle for the Army right now. It uses a diesel engine that runs at a constant 1500rpm for maximum fuel efficiency to drive an electric generator that provides power to the electric motors. Ultracapacitors are used to store electricity for burst of acceleration.

I heard that Jeep is working on a civilian 4x4 version of this technology that should be available in about 2 years.


Oshkosh is a leader in the development of next-generation hybrid propulsion systems in heavy trucks. ProPulse® is an unmatched hybrid electric drive system that dramatically improves fuel economy, reduces emissions, improves life cycle costs, and serves as an on-board AC generator with enough output to power an entire airfield or hospital.

“This leading-edge technology is the first significant step toward the development of an entirely new generation of highly mobile and incredibly efficient trucks. Our focus is on enhancing performance characteristics while making trucks environmentally friendly,” said Robert G. Bohn, Oshkosh’s chairman, president and CEO.

The ProPulse system uses a unique, modular series-hybrid arrangement to simplify the transmission of power to the wheels. The diesel engine powers an electric generator, which provides direct power to the wheels, eliminating the torque converter, automatic transmission, transfer case and drive shafts. The system has no batteries, using ultracapacitors for energy storage instead. A regenerative braking function stores engine energy and then uses it to assist in the next braking operation, reducing wear and tear on the brake system.

ProPulse has applications for Oshkosh’s entire line of products, including defense, refuse hauling, fire and emergency, and other commercial markets. Oshkosh has applied for patents on various aspects of the ProPulse design.

American technological innovation is not dead!

482 Eaglesdad  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:10:21pm

Barrack looks stoned! How much can this guy snort up that snooz?

483 Apprentice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:20:06pm

re: #332 lostlakehiker

"Carbon dioxide emissions" is a scarce good? And YES co2 is a greenhouse gas...but not nearly as powerful a one as h2o. And taxing the HELL out of something is better than rationing?...oh….I see, taxing the Hell out of something is better because that way YOU who have MONEY or CONNECTIONS can still get what you want, while I who under rationing would get at least a little, under your Pogrom (since I have little or no money) would get NOTHING. I gave up reading you after your first full paragraph. Goodbye.

484 RickZ  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:22:27pm

re: #19 lone_wolf_in_illinois

This coming from the same guy who said that it was good that we were paying so much for gas. He said that it would make us more like Europe and think twice about how much we drive.

Yeah, well, Obama has a disdain for the suburbs, doncha know? Even after flying all over this country during his campain, I'll bet he still has no clue how big America is. Driving 10 hours barely makes a dent in this country, while driving 10 hours in Europe you go through probably 6 countries.

Obama is clueless about everything, an affirmative action presidential candidate.

McCain/Palin '08
Palin/Whoever '12

485 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:22:30pm

re: #399 sattv4u2

A house designed from the get-go to take advantage of its site and climate can achieve impressive energy savings merely by the arraignment of the same components that you would buy for a badly designed house.

Most of these concepts are covered by the term "Passive Solar".

The best book if "The Passive Solar Handbook" by Mazria; Rodale Press.

It costs little or no more; it can save the energy equivalent of several hundred gallons of heating oil per year.

Signed, Ojoe, Architect.

And Obama has punishment on the brain; none of it is necessary. Leadership is necessary instead & I suspect very little of that will come from a politician.

486 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:27:14pm

re: #473 itellu3times

The sun dumps upon us, for free, more energy than we could ever use.

And solar energy is not monopolized by fanatic religious retards.

I cannot think why we have not been developing it earlier.

Anyway, world peace through solar energy, among other things.

487 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:29:54pm

re: #16 MandyManners

They will get my lava lamp when they pry it from my cold dead eyeballs.

LOL

488 JWill  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:31:14pm

re: #445 Dr. Shalit

Nancy -

I will respectfully disagree with you to an extent. Same discussion I had with Sean Hannity in 2003. Posit 4 vehicles as follows:

1. Station Wagon - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 23-25 mpg. These are scarce as hen's teeth today.
2. Mini-Van or Crossover, 2 Wheel Drive - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 21 mpg.
4. Mid-Size SUV - Probably 4 Wheel Drive, 6 cyl - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 16 mpg.
5. Full Size SUV - Probably 4 Wheel Drive, 8 cyl - 3 Row Seating - Averages about 12 - 14 mpg.


-S-


Dude: I remember the 70's like they were yesterday. Station wagons everywhere. Drove 'em, rode in 'em and filled those hungry beasts tanks.

23-25 MPG?!

I drive a F350 super duty diesel truck. 17 MPG .

I say that not to brag. It's awful to fill up. Bit the station wagons I rode in ever getting into the teens on MPG They were land yachts. Big carberated V8 power plants.

Maybe were talking about different models, yes?

489 Apprentice  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:33:17pm

re: #332 lostlakehiker

I just read the rest of your post. Did you forget the sarcasm tag?

490 Reluctant Democrat  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:37:47pm

re: #136 SpartanWoman

Sad but true. They are hypnotized or something!

491 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:43:31pm

re: #488 JWill

Volvo 740 station wagon 4 cyl. stick rear wheel drive 30 mpg highway w/ michelins.

I report personally

that's 120 passenger miles per gallon with the family in it.

492 WV.Hillbilly  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:44:17pm

re: #409 Spare O'Lake

I recently saw a documentary on oil-poor Portugal of all places, which IIRC now produces 42% of its energy from tide, wind and solar.

Portugal has the population of Ohio,
What are we going to do for the other 240 million people that live in America?

re: #473 itellu3times

, if it were only in orbit, where it could produce power 24x365.

And then we get the power how?
A giant extension cord?
Or do we all move to space?

1000 megawatts is a very small power plant.

How many wind turbines would be required to replace the output of ONE average coal fired power plant?
Between 1,200 and 1,800.

493 Freedom Fan  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 3:56:39pm

The LGF link no longer works for some reason. Here's one that does:

Obama's Price Signals

494 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 4:05:19pm

re: #483 Apprentice

"Carbon dioxide emissions" is a scarce good? And YES co2 is a greenhouse gas...but not nearly as powerful a one as h2o. And taxing the HELL out of something is better than rationing?...oh….I see, taxing the Hell out of something is better because that way YOU who have MONEY or CONNECTIONS can still get what you want, while I who under rationing would get at least a little, under your Pogrom (since I have little or no money) would get NOTHING. I gave up reading you after your first full paragraph. Goodbye.

So when we go to hydrogen as a primary fuel how much water vapor will be dumped into the atmosphere? How will that mess with the gorebal warming?

495 deportman[deleted]  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 4:18:20pm
496 wiley  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 4:21:26pm

Video works well for me I just watched it. This guy is truly scary. I hope McCain can overtake him.

wiley (canadian)

497 Mark1957  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 4:28:23pm

Obama wants to send "price signals?" Gee, if he were Kurt Cobain he'd write a song titled "Smells Like Teen Wage and Price Controls."

Here's my "signal" to The Anointed One: "Two middle fingers up....WAY up!"

On a totally unrelated topic, I made about 200 get-out-the-vote calls this afternoon at my local Rethuglican HQ. Bottom line: lots of talking into voicemail, several wrong or disconnected numbers, a few slammed down phones, a crusty Republican curmudgeon, as well as three venom-laden replies from glassy-eyed, snake-worshipping adherents of Obama Doom.

However, 'twas all balanced out by some good conversations with nice folks who have either already voted for McCain or are planning to do so in the next couple of days.

Ah, the things we must do to forestall the Obamian Millenium.....

498 avspatti  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 4:57:27pm

re: #66 Jimmah

This seems to be a pattern in Obamas statements - 'we must change human behaviour to fit our enlightened policies'...

Looks like heavy handed socialism to me...

Breathtaking arrogance, if you ask me. Who died and made this guy EMPEROR OF THE UNIVERSE? Sickening and frightening.

499 avspatti  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 5:02:02pm

re: #54 cobalt blue

The biggest area for Obama's use of "price signals" to change behavior, obviously, is going to be in the field of government-funded health insurance. Namely, if you wish to have health insurance, you must give up risky behavior ___. Government socialized medicine will be the instrument of massive social behavioral controls.

So the Great O man is going to give up smoking . . . whatever it is that he smokes? Riiiight.

500 grahamski  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 5:27:01pm

re: #14 looking closely

I'm going to send Senator Obama my own "signal" on Tuesday.

I sent him my signal last week....
I can't wait for this to be over, if I have to look at his face, or hear his voice one more time, I am going to puke.

501 grahamski  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 5:29:32pm

re: #18 wildcat84

He's never lived in it. All his life he's gotten privileges from his radical friends

Yeah...price breaks on cocaine and weed...

502 crazyhorse46  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 6:00:10pm

He is using the perfect example of Hugo Chavez and the wonderful power outage, oops I mean power system they have in Venezuela.

503 avspatti  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 6:27:44pm

re: #383 jaunte

Or, if everyone buys from 'farmer's markets' what happens to all the employees of conventional supermarkets?

Are there 'farmers' markets' in the winter? Some of us live where it :::gasp::: snows.

504 jaunte  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 6:30:24pm

re: #503 avspatti

As in The Day After Tomorrow, we're all going to have to walk to down to Mexico. And hope Miguel feels hospitable.

505 elchimpy  Sun, Nov 2, 2008 7:34:42pm

We're f*cked.


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