Mere Rhetoric: Obama’s Israel Deceptions

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Politics • Mon Nov 3, 2008 at 1:13 pm PST • Views: 333

Omri Ceren makes a last ditch appeal to Democratic Jews to reconsider their support for a man who will be absolutely disastrous for Israel: 70 Percent Of American Jews Ready To Say ‘We Didn’t Know’ When Obama Detonates US-Israel Alliance (Plus: They Most Definitely Know).

You have to admire the obstinate creativity behind the moronic arguments and bald-faced lies that Democratic Jews cling to. This is a candidate who is so close to vulgar appeasement that he and his media sycophants take it personally when people talk about Chamberlain - even in contexts that aren’t about Obama at all. The hysterical way that Democratic Jews latched on to Bob Wexler’s transparent anti-Palin lies was revelatory - they weren’t so much fooled as desperately hoping to convince people that they were fooled. This is how it’s been through the entire campaign - just one unblinking, incoherent argument after another:

* Obama will actively work to undermine the political supporters of the US-Israel alliance? “Well Jesse Jackson doesn’t speak for Obama and AIPAC supports him.“ Except Biden said the exact same thing about taking on pro-Israel forces in DC and AIPAC is actually terrified of him.

* Obama is disastrously weak on Israeli security? “Well he’s willing to accept Israel’s security choices, he’s spoken out against Palestinian violence, and he’s reached out to Israelis.“ Except he totally rejects the Israeli center-right that Israelis are about to entrust with their security, he opposes the security fence that protects Israel from Palestinian violence, and Israelis don’t actually believe that his overtures are genuine.

* Obama has the most anti-Israel foreign policy team ever assembled? “Well he has plenty of pro-Israel advisers and all those anti-Israel advisers don’t advise him on Israel anyway.” Except he doesn’t have pro-Israel advisers and obsessive anti-Israel partisans like Brzezinski obviously advise him on Israel since they blame the Jewish State for the entire breadth and depth of Middle East instability - a view of the Middle East geopolitics that Obama himself explicitly endorses.

* Obama committed to meeting Ahmadinejad without preconditions? “Well he never said that and besides he meant Khamenei.” Except there’s video and photographic proof that he did commit to meeting Ahmadinejad and if he meant Khamenei that’s even worse.

There’s a lot more in this vein.

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298 comments

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1 NC State of Mind  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:14:56pm

It takes a lot of work to get your head that deeply in the sand.

2 DesertSage  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:14:56pm

If I were Israel, I'd be very afraid of an Obama presidency!

3 RTLM  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:15:31pm

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

4 YMedad  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:16:57pm

You're more than Merely right on target. I tried earlier by pointing out the Biden 1982 shouting attack on Menachem Begin as an indication how bad this Dem ticket is.

5 NC State of Mind  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:17:07pm
Obama committed to meeting Ahmadinejad without preconditions? “Well he never said that and besides he meant Khamenei.”

He sure does screw up a lot speaking to be so damned eloquent.

6 kynna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:17:09pm

Excellent post! Irrefutable. But so many will manage to put their fingers in their ears and sing 'lalalalalalalala' all the way to the polls, anyway. What is up with people?

7 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:17:12pm

Jerusalem Post has been running one Obama panegyric after another. Meanwhile, YNet is blaming all of Israel's problems on "settlers" and "haredim."

8 Wishing  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:19:24pm

Obama is America's Olmert: Mr Appeasement

9 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:19:31pm

Israel will not survive an Obama presidency.

The big international test will involve testing to see if Obama will support Isreal militarily. He won't. He'll throw her to the wolves.

/Wake up... please... wake up!

10 LC HOGHEAD  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:21:33pm

From Beirut, Chawki Freiha reports* on a provocative editorial that appeared in the Al Quds Al Arabi newspaper on November 3 written by Abdelbari Atwan, the first journalist to have met with Osama bin Laden. Titled “Obama’s Historic Intifada,” Atwan praises the probable election of Barack Obama to the White House and claims that with Obama installed in Washington, Islam will be able to “impose its point of view” on the world.
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

11 pegcity  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:21:48pm

im thinking a strike on iran is in the cards in the next month if Obummer gets elected

12 alien_mind  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:22:56pm

It would appear that guns, coal, and Israel will be added to the endangered species list if Dear Leader takes office.

13 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:23:28pm

I'm taking The Kid to the park this afternoon but I decided yesterday that we won't go tomorrow after a supporter of BHO told me he and other BHO supporters are taking the day off and gathering at the park.

bbl

14 LC HOGHEAD  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:23:35pm

re: #2 DesertSage

If I were Israel, I'd be very afraid of an Obama presidency!

yet 70% of JEWS SUPPORT 0bama

15 rawmuse  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:24:14pm

I have carefully avoided any comments on the voting practices of (secular) Jews in the USA, except to say that I find them puzzling, and often bereft of any evidence of normal self preservation instincts.

16 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:24:19pm

re: #13 MandyManners

I'm taking The Kid to the park this afternoon but I decided yesterday that we won't go tomorrow after a supporter of BHO told me he and other BHO supporters are taking the day off and gathering at the park.

bbl

And another baby riot is born. How quaint.

17 LC HOGHEAD  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:24:38pm

re: #12 alien_mind

It would appear that guns, coal, and Israel will be added to the endangered species list if Dear Leader takes office.

And the American capitalist system

18 wright1  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:24:49pm

A head of State can call for the extinction Israel which is little more than a rotting corpse and the world shuts its mouth.

BHO is walking in as liberator of the Pan-Arab world. What is happening?

I just do not understand why the people of Isreal (at least segments of their population) not to mention our own Jewish Population are unable to see the truth of what BHO represents. This really is a perfect storm for the end of Israel as we know it.

19 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:25:05pm

OT: This is classic.

Charlie Rangel is busy leading a cheerleading section in Harlem for Obama:

"Who is going to lead us out of poverty?
Barack Obama!"

"Who is going to save the United States of America?
Barack Obama!"

"Who is going to save the entire world?
Barack Obama!"

Unasked questions? Who's going to save Rangel from the tax man? Obama!

Who's going to save small businesses from Obama's tax and spend ways? No one!

20 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:25:32pm

The left wing Jews who support Obama are people who believe in the "let's knock some heads together" approach to making supposed peace with people who only want Israel gone.

They see Obama's hostile-to-Israel Middle East advisers as people who could do some head knocking for Israel's own good (or so they think.)

Most Israelis know better by now. Most Israelis no longer believe that an agreement for real peace is possible. They've seen the "peace process" up close and personal. Most Israelis know that a peace agreement would rain rockets down on Tel Aviv. Even most of the lefties in Tel Aviv know this and they don't want Tel Aviv to turn into Sderot.

Leftie Jews in America mostly don't get it, but 80% of Orthodox Jews are Republicans who understand completely.

21 OldLineTexan  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:26:08pm

re: #13 MandyManners

I'm taking The Kid to the park this afternoon but I decided yesterday that we won't go tomorrow after a supporter of BHO told me he and other BHO supporters are taking the day off and gathering at the park.

bbl

The one vocal BHO supporter in my workplace has effectively taken tomorrow off.

22 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:26:38pm

Look, what you Capitalist Imperialists need to realize is that Israel just has too much land in the middle east. Sure they are only 1%, but that 1% has most of the wealth and success, and that just isn't fair to the 98% of the middle east that is Arab/Muslim is it?

Simply put you selfish, racist, war-mongers: Israel needs to spread the land around.

/big time sarc.

23 Pyrocles  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:26:46pm

Great... Obama's possible election is revving up these guys' confidence. Although Obama is officially not a Muslim, the Jihadists see him as one; or at least an enabler.

re: #10 LC HOGHEAD

From Beirut, Chawki Freiha reports* on a provocative editorial that appeared in the Al Quds Al Arabi newspaper on November 3 written by Abdelbari Atwan, the first journalist to have met with Osama bin Laden. Titled “Obama’s Historic Intifada,” Atwan praises the probable election of Barack Obama to the White House and claims that with Obama installed in Washington, Islam will be able to “impose its point of view” on the world.
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

24 mahatma coat  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:27:21pm

re: #10 LC HOGHEAD
oh good,I'll be looking forwaed to that

25 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:27:29pm

All of my Jewish friends, with one exception, are voting for Obama.

It boggles the mind.

26 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:28:01pm

Man, my spidy-sense tells me this is going to get very ugly in a hurry. Nuke kinda ugly.

/Somebody please wake me up and tell it it was all a bad dream and I get to choose between McCain and Hillary in the morning. Anybody? Bueller?

27 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:28:21pm

re: #2 DesertSage

Same here, but we also have to be very afraid here...people of any religion, atheists, agnostics...each and every one of us...and yes, Israel has to fear him..sad that the liberals in Tel Aviv and Haifa sit around refusing to face the truth.

Damn it, wake up! Tomorrow is our chance to kick Hussein out on his bony ass.

McCain/Palin 2008!

28 dancinggoat  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:28:25pm

Hello! I think Obama will say and do whatever he must to sit in the Oval Office and once there he will continue his Marxist ways to undermine Israel and the USA in every way possible. He thinks only of one world under communism as heaven-on-earth and that's sure no tikkun olum for the rest of us.

Thank you for allowing me to join this forum! May all here vote for Mr. McCain!

29 Pyroskank  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:29:21pm

re: #14 LC HOGHEAD

yet 70% of JEWS SUPPORT 0bama

As a child of a liberal, New York, Jewish family, I'm shocked that 30% don't.

30 LC HOGHEAD  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:30:50pm

"Obamas Intifada"? Does that scare anyone else?

31 J.S.  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:31:29pm

Oh well. Some cannot be reasoned with -- entirely pointless. I'm assuming that Democratic Jews have zero concerns/connections with Israel anyway...and it simply doesn't matter to them if a Zero surrounds himself with antisemites. (In fact, I sometimes suspect that if a Zero "adviser" railed about wiping Israel off the map, The Zero's support would increase.) It does not matter...heh, he's their new found ObamaMessiah. I suspect it will prove to be a disastrous relationship...but the Americans will get what/whom they vote for...(and, obviously, it's not just Democratic Jews voting for the Zero).

32 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:31:33pm

re: #30 LC HOGHEAD

"Obamas Intifada"? Does that scare anyone else?

That's the plan if he loses. Ask Odinga.

33 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:31:42pm

re: #30 LC HOGHEAD

The Obama Accords.

34 Meremortal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:31:51pm

Hello Lizards and lovely Lizzies. Halloween night was a blast. We played lots of rock 'n roll, and I have never seen so many hot babes in sexy outifts on the dance floor. Whew! My plans are now set for adjustment as needed for a victory by either candidate. If it's McCain, I start a new small business to add to my current two endeavors. If it's the Messiah, I expand my semi-retirement, adjust my investments to tax-free, play more music and live a slightly simpler lifestyle.
I do feel for you younger folks that are going be screwed if the O gets in, but hopefully he'll be a one-termer like Carter. Like Churchill said, Americans always do the right thing, they just try everything else first.

35 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:32:08pm

re: #7 Alouette

/Do you use an eye wash after reading that crap?

36 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:32:09pm

ISRAEL IS NOT A CENTRAL ISSUE TO AMERICAN JEWS.

And here's another newsflash:

THE SEAT OF JEWISH POWER IN THE WORLD IS NOT IN NEW YORK, LOS ANGELES OR MIAMI.

IT IS IN JERUSALEM.

American Jews do not vote in Israel.

Israelis do not vote in America.

When Jews are attacked in the former Soviet Union, or in Paris, it is not AMERICAN JEWS that come to their defense, it is the GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

37 Kragar  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:32:42pm

re: #25 Ringo the Gringo

All of my Jewish friends, with one exception, are voting for Obama.

It boggles the mind.

I'm sure they're convinced if they can prove how useful they are to the Obama regime, then everything will be fine.

38 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:32:46pm

All my Orthodox Jewish friends in America are voting for McCain.

39 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:32:56pm

As Samuel L. Jackson's character said in Pulp Fiction, "Man, I don't even have a comment..."

40 Killian Bundy  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:32:58pm

Vote Obama!

/because no Israel equals peace in the Middle East

41 mahatma coat  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:33:40pm

its all very confusing ,I thought the Zionists were in it with the neocons to take over the world and now they're voting for Obama?I must say,these conspiracies can get really complicated

42 Just Another Four-letter Word  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:33:47pm

A co-worker of mine is voting The One, since he doen't believe The O is that bad. He thinks all the "lies" that t he right wingers are telling about The Anointed One are just that - lies. I pointed out to him that all of what we have said is documented - it just slid off of him.

Well, he used to work for MicroSoft, so he's been heavily infected with the Left Coast outlook... Sigh.

I think his head's in the sand as well. Doesn't think taxes will go up...

JAFLW

43 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:34:09pm
44 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:34:48pm

re: #25 Ringo the Gringo

NY Grampa and I are Republicans...our 4 kids, I fear, will vote for our enemy. One son, we are not sure of.

Bulletin: Obama's grandmother has died...

45 LC HOGHEAD  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:35:06pm

re: #41 mahatma coat

its all very confusing ,I thought the Zionists were in it with the neocons to take over the world and now they're voting for Obama?I must say,these conspiracies can get really complicated

Troll Alert. Stupid one too

46 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:35:12pm

One nice thing about living here in Germany is that I'm not around many (American) Obama supporters. I'm kind of out here by myself.

47 Jinx  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:35:30pm

Sorry, I've been out for a while.

Why am I in this bucket and where are we going?

48 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:35:52pm

Do not understand why Jews would vote for The Zero. Just can't comprehend the reasoning behind this decision.

49 LC HOGHEAD  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:35:53pm

re: #45 LC HOGHEAD

WHOOPS SORRY I MEANT #40

50 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:36:00pm

So, this is what that felt like, huh.

51 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:36:23pm

re: #44 NY Nana

NY Grampa and I are Republicans...our 4 kids, I fear, will vote for our enemy. One son, we are not sure of.

Bulletin: Obama's grandmother has died...

RIP Obama's grandma. I'll just leave it at that out of respect for the dead.

52 Killian Bundy  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:36:51pm

re: #49 LC HOGHEAD

WHOOPS SORRY I MEANT #40

/not a big fan of sarcasm, eh?

53 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:36:55pm

re: #13 MandyManners

Well, I'm either going to be gutsy or stupid (you decide which) by going to the area around the Obama rally tomorrow night in Grant Park. My goal? To document the loonies around the area. If it gets a little too hot, at least I know the area well, and I know ho to get back to the train station quickly.

Should be worth it for the pictures.

54 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:06pm

Obama's grandmother just died.

55 mahatma coat  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:12pm

I beg your pardon I've been here for years.That was an attempt at humour at the expense of the zionist conspiracy crowd

56 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:34pm

re: #34 Meremortal

..Americans always do the right thing, they just try everything else first.

Hey Meremortal. Sounds like you got jiggy with it for Halloween.
Democrats leave me unimpressed and uninspired. I'm going at John Galt as humanly possible.

57 Meremortal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:35pm

re: #51 imploder

RIP Obama's grandma. I'll just leave it at that out of respect for the dead.


+
Bless her heart, I hope it was easy and she finds her reward.

58 johngaltlives  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:40pm

BOs grandmother just died. On Fox.

59 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:46pm

re: #53 Honorary Yooper

Well, I'm either going to be gutsy or stupid (you decide which) by going to the area around the Obama rally tomorrow night in Grant Park. My goal? To document the loonies around the area. If it gets a little too hot, at least I know the area well, and I know ho to get back to the train station quickly.

Should be worth it for the pictures.

You're a better lizard than I am. I wouldn't get within' 100 miles of that city.

60 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:48pm
61 Thor-Zone  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:51pm

I don't get it...after all the stuff I have read about Mr. Obama and all the blog discussion I have had, how can he have such a large lead?

It doesn't make sense to me. Anyone got any good ideas?

62 vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:56pm

Great... now we get to deal with the grandmother sympathy vote, too.

Talk about your perfect storm.

63 mensamann  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:37:58pm

My condolences to Barack and his family over the loss of his grandmother. I doubt he will read this blog, but my intentions are good.

64 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:38:05pm

Sorry to hear that The Zero's grandmother has passed away.
per Hannity.

65 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:38:15pm

re: #49 LC HOGHEAD

WHOOPS SORRY I MEANT #40

Um, are you a noob? Killian's been a lizard for quite some time, and even used the appropriate sarcasm tag (/).

66 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:38:27pm

re: #55 mahatma coat

I beg your pardon I've been here for years.That was an attempt at humour at the expense of the zionist conspiracy crowd

TROLL!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I got it.

And it was good!

67 Raven1  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:38:45pm

Fox News reporting Barak Obama's grandmother has died.

68 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:03pm

Sorry to hear about Obama's grandmother.

Expect the Larry Johnson creeps to start spreading rumors that he killed her.

69 Beach Lover  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:09pm

hannity just announced that Obama's grandmother has died. All said, that is sad for him

70 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:38pm

re: #28 dancinggoat
Welcome, newbie!

I see we've got our avatars back. All y'all are lookin' good!

71 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:38pm

re: #63 mensamann

Agreed. My condolences to Obama and Durbin of their recent loses. However, it does not change my votes.

72 J.S.  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:42pm

re: #55 mahatma coat

I thought your comment was pretty funny, actually...

73 Rancher  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:51pm

Obama's Granmother has died. May she rest in peace.

74 Meremortal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:39:58pm

re: #56 FrogMarch

Hey Meremortal. Sounds like you got jiggy with it for Halloween.
Democrats leave me unimpressed and uninspired. I'm going at John Galt as humanly possible.


++
Hey Frog, hope you are well. Halloween was awesome! The John Galt play is as good a plan as any if the Messiah wins. Click my nic to see the band.

75 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:40:18pm

re: #38 Adina in Judea

All my Orthodox Jewish friends in America are voting for McCain.

I am not the least bit surprised. Would that the rest will wake up in time.

76 JohnnyReb  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:40:37pm

re: #49 LC HOGHEAD

WHOOPS SORRY I MEANT #40

That one had a sarc tag on it.

77 faraway  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:41:15pm

Sorry to read about her death.

CNN must have it wrong. They said she "loses battle with cancer".

I thought she had osteoporosis and a broken hip. Never knew about the cancer. It's awful.

78 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:41:20pm

re: #36 Ben Hur

amen. But I'll one up you. The seat of power for the Jewish people is not in J'lem but in H'shem.

And have you seen what those in J'lem are doing to their own people this week?

79 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:41:33pm

RIP to Mrs. Madelyn Dunham, and condolences to Senator Obama.

80 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:41:40pm

re: #76 JohnnyReb

That one had a sarc tag on it.

Four sarc tags of Freedom:

/sarc/sarc/sarc/sarc

81 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:41:46pm

re: #69 Beach Lover

hannity just announced that Obama's grandmother has died. All said, that is sad for him

She must have been in poor health prior to breaking her hip.

82 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:42:03pm
83 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:42:25pm

My mother told me she is voting for Obama "because he will protect a woman's right to choose!"

I said, "You're 85 years old, you will never need to get an abortion."

At that point she started to hyperventilate and it was impossible to continue the conversation.

84 Dianna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:42:30pm

re: #44 NY Nana

Bulletin: Obama's grandmother has died...

I am very sorry to read that.

85 J.S.  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:42:44pm

hmmm...that is too bad about Obama's grandmother -- she'll never know if her grandson becomes the next POTUS...

86 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:43:01pm

RIP, Mrs. Dunham. My sympathies go out to your family.

87 Beach Lover  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:43:10pm

Boy, that is gonna put a strange twist to his day tomorrow. How can he not go to Hawaii?

88 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:43:24pm

I must say - I'm saturated. Obama is the worst most insane candidate we have ever faced. The only reason he's "ahead" is because of the media and fevered Bush hate.

89 bill-tb  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:43:38pm

re: #3 RTLM

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift


Boy that sure speaks the truth, not only about Jews, but Democrats. It's as if someone removes their reasoning disgronificator.

I have no idea why any Jew would vote for a Democrat, ever. They must know, yet still they follow.

90 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:43:42pm

re: #83 Alouette

My mother told me she is voting for Obama "because he will protect a woman's right to choose!"

I said, "You're 85 years old, you will never need to get an abortion."

At that point she started to hyperventilate and it was impossible to continue the conversation.

That's got to be demoralizing.

When everything else is gone, I suppose a woman will still be able to go get a fetus yanked out of her and maybe even the taxpayer will fund it.

91 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:43:45pm

All together now... Shomer, Shomer, Yisroel...

92 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:44:25pm

At least Obama did get to spend some time with his grandma before she passed away. That has to give him some amount of comfort.

I don't think it will have any effect on how people will vote tomorrow, but it is difficult timing for him.

93 looking closely  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:44:30pm

I know a Jewish woman from Florida who just voted for Obama (early).

Her mother survived Auschwitz, and lived the rest of her life with a number tattooed into her arm, too.

Broke my heart.

94 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:44:32pm

Rest in Peace...

95 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:44:35pm

re: #78 WrathofG-d

amen. But I'll one up you. The seat of power for the Jewish people is not in J'lem but in H'shem.

And have you seen what those in J'lem are doing to their own people this week?

Yes.

96 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:45:42pm

re: #85 J.S.

hmmm...that is too bad about Obama's grandmother -- she'll never know if her grandson becomes the next POTUS...


or not.

97 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:45:51pm

re: #93 looking closely

I know a Jewish woman from Florida who just voted for Obama (early).

Her mother survived Auschwitz, and lived the rest of her life with a number tattooed into her arm, too.

Broke my heart.

A lesson forgotten, I suppose. I don't see the One as a champion of any Jew, much less Israel. Look at the people he hangs with. Holy shit, does not Farrakhan give them at least a moment's pause?

98 Killian Bundy  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:45:53pm

It's 3AM And The Prime Minister Of Israel Is Calling

/Lord Numbnuts just ain't gonna pick it up

99 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:45:55pm

Good news, albeit for bad reasons: Price of oil slid 6% today. We're heading toward below-$60/bbl oil again, very soon.

100 The Other Les  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:46:07pm

re: #74 Meremortal

++
Hey Frog, hope you are well. Halloween was awesome! The John Galt play is as good a plan as any if the Messiah wins. Click my nic to see the band.

I never thought that I would ever see anyone say that they were going to do a John Galt outside of an Objectivist forum.

101 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:46:08pm

re: #85 J.S.

hmmm...that is too bad about Obama's grandmother -- she'll never know if her grandson becomes the next POTUS...

Or what evils he does to us.

Maybe, G*d was helping her. She's innocent.

102 Rovers Return  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:46:31pm

It's my first comment.
I find it amazing that half the people in this country are willing to overlook Obama's agendas, affiliations, and audio soundbites. I find it even more amazing that the Jewish Democrats aren't looking around at each other and asking themselves, "Why are we voting for this man?".

103 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:46:40pm

Very tragic.

104 runrabbitrun  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:46:51pm

My elderly FiL and MiL are lifelong academics/Democrats who hate hate hate Obama. They were the only members of the Grampa Rabbit's family (all liberal academics), who were going to vote for McCain - UNTIL Palin was chosen.

Now they claim that they are just not going to vote. They are terrified of right-wing Christians - far more than radical Islamists

=(

105 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:46:53pm

Where's his mother?

106 SummerSong  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:47:10pm

re: #36 Ben Hur

ISRAEL IS NOT A CENTRAL ISSUE TO AMERICAN JEWS.

That has certainly been my experience. I don't understand it, but I know it is true.

107 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:47:27pm

It's a shame about Obama's grandma.

(And yes, I do have to wonder if this won't garner him some margin of "sympathy vote".)

108 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:47:31pm
109 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:47:33pm

re: #99 Occasional Reader

Good news, albeit for bad reasons: Price of oil slid 6% today. We're heading toward below-$60/bbl oil again, very soon.

I like it when Chavez feels the squeeze, along with amhadinejad. Where's all their hubris now? Will Hugo give free heating oil to the suburbs of Boston again this year?

110 Just Another Four-letter Word  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:47:41pm

re: #61 Thor-Zone

I don't get it...after all the stuff I have read about Mr. Obama and all the blog discussion I have had, how can he have such a large lead?

It doesn't make sense to me. Anyone got any good ideas?

1) Sheeple
2) Racism
3) MSM

Don't believe everything you read or hear. Get out and VOTE!

JAFLW

111 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:00pm

re: #74 Meremortal

++
Hey Frog, hope you are well. Halloween was awesome! The John Galt play is as good a plan as any if the Messiah wins. Click my nic to see the band.

whoa! right on -- great song! Do you guys tour?

112 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:08pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

Where's his mother?

She passed away in the mid-1990s.

113 G.W.  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:17pm

I am sorry to say that the record of American Jewry's response to threats to Jews elsewhere is not stellar, e.g.:

The American Jewish Committee, which represented the wealthier, more
Americanized German Jews, believed that the best way to deal with Hitler was
diplomatically and quietly, with behind-the-scenes negotiations.


(from the Shoah Resource Center, Yad Vashem)

But, as it says in the Book of Esther:
"Even if you are silent now, the Jews will get relief and rescue some other Way, and you and your father's house will be lost."

114 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:23pm

re: #102 Rovers Return

It's my first comment.
I find it amazing that half the people in this country are willing to overlook Obama's agendas, affiliations, and audio soundbites. I find it even more amazing that the Jewish Democrats aren't looking around at each other and asking themselves, "Why are we voting for this man?".


Ta-dah! Happy first post to you.

115 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:40pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

Where's his mother?

Hopefully in Heaven, or on her way there. She lived in Hawaii.

116 Beach Lover  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:46pm

re: #81 redstateredneck

She must have been in poor health prior to breaking her hip.

I don't know for sure...but had heard she was in frail health and at that age, a broken hip can lead to pneumonia. Still this was basically the woman who raised him, so like a mother instead of a grandmother. Would put a damper on any victory tomorrow. And even though I don't want him to win, if he did, how ironic he has no family other than wife and girls to share it with. (If you don't count all those in foreign lands)

117 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:51pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

Where's his mother?

Stanley Ann died years ago, from what, I don't know.

118 mensamann  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:48:52pm

You know, I realize that this is a terrible thought to have right now, but I can't help but wonder what the KOS kids would be saying about John McCain if he had a tragedy in his family. I'm sure they would show their usual class...

119 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:49:05pm

re: #83 Alouette

My mother told me she is voting for Obama "because he will protect a woman's right to choose!"


I said, "You're 85 years old, you will never need to get an abortion."


At that point she started to hyperventilate and it was impossible to continue the conversation.

I don't understand the gay men who want to "protect a woman's right to choose."

120 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:49:28pm

re: #115 Ward Cleaver

Hopefully in Heaven, or on her way there. She lived in Hawaii.

Crap, I thought you meant his grandmother. His mom died from breast cancer at age 53.

121 Dianna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:49:33pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

Where's his mother?

She died in 1995 (iirc) of ovarian cancer.

122 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:49:45pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

Where's his mother?

She died years ago.

123 imploder  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:49:53pm

re: #115 Ward Cleaver

Hopefully in Heaven, or on her way there. She lived in Hawaii.

I don't think she thought much of a higher power.

124 Outrider  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:49:58pm

re: #2 DesertSage

If I were Israel, I'd be very afraid of an Obama presidency!

Didn't 70 odd% of the Americans there vote McCain? That pretty much says it. About the same % as American military. Both elements are the ones going to have to deal it whatever comes.

125 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:50:06pm

re: #93 looking closely

Her mother survived Auschwitz, and lived the rest of her life with a number tattooed into her arm, too.

Speaking of which... from our "historical illiteracy" files.

126 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:50:18pm

re: #118 mensamann

You know, I realize that this is a terrible thought to have right now, but I can't help but wonder what the KOS kids would be saying about John McCain if he had a tragedy in his family. I'm sure they would show their usual class...

HuffPo would have to turn off comments.

127 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:50:36pm

Joe the Plumber apparently laid some pipe this weekend.

128 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:50:52pm
129 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:00pm

re: #121 Dianna

She died in 1995 (iirc) of ovarian cancer.

Oh, ovarian cancer. Didn't she have breast cancer first, or am I wrong about that?

130 Outrider  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:06pm

re: #119 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I don't understand the gay men who want to "protect a woman's right to choose."


envy

131 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:08pm

re: #116 Beach Lover
The illegal aunt in Boston!

132 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:29pm

re: #112 Adina in Judea

She passed away in the mid-1990s.


Of what?

133 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:34pm

re: #116 Beach Lover

And even though I don't want him to win, if he did, how ironic he has no family other than wife and girls to share it with. (If you don't count all those in foreign lands)

Obama still has a sister (from his mother) who lives in Hawaii.

134 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:40pm

re: #99 Occasional Reader

Good news, albeit for bad reasons: Price of oil slid 6% today. We're heading toward below-$60/bbl oil again, very soon.

It is good news in some respects. It takes away money from Russia, Venezuela, and Iran, but it also hurts the profitability of oil sands, oil shale, and our domestic off-shore drilling. However, that said, I'd rather subsidze oil sands, oil shale, and off-shore drilling than see another cent wind up in the hands of Dinnerjacket, Hugo, or Putin ever again.

135 makabi  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:41pm

After the vietnamization of the hezbollah war, it's not at all clear that Israel has the will to live anyway. Maybe losing trust in us is what they need to get over their own European multicultural guilt and strike at Iran. If they do strike, and Obama doesn't fully support, he'll destroy the democrats for 12 years. C'mon lizards, aren't you kind of dying to see president Obama run out of tap-dancing floor?

136 x-wing  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:51:44pm

re: #117 Intrepid

Stanley Ann died years ago, from what, I don't know.

Not totally sure, but I thought it was from cancer.

hmmm..

137 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:08pm

re: #132 Ben Hur

Cancer.

138 MellyMel  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:13pm

Sorry to go OT so soon, but I had to share!

In the People's Republic of Maryland (downtown Silver Spring no less) I saw a car next to me in traffic with the following bumper sticker:

Hispanics for McCain.

Okay, I thought surely, this was a joke and checked the car for some pro-Obama stickers. Oh, I found them -- NOT. This is the other one they had:

Obama/Bullshit 08

LOVE IT!

139 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:15pm
140 Dianna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:16pm

re: #123 imploder

I don't think she thought much of a higher power.

As someone pointed out, once, it doesn't matter what you think of a higher power; what a higher power thinks of you, however...

141 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:17pm

re: #117 Intrepid

Stanley Ann died years ago, from what, I don't know.

Cancer. He uses her death in his stump speech about her fighting with her insurance company who said her cancer was a pre-existing condition.

142 bill-tb  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:30pm

re: #114 redstateredneck

Why are we voting for this man?".

They don't know.

The best I can do is offer you a quote I got from someone above

It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift
143 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:52:53pm

re: #127 Dirk Diggler

Joe the Plumber apparently laid some pipe this weekend.

Man, that's funny.

144 Thor-Zone  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:53:23pm

re: #110 Just Another Four-letter Word

Don't believe everything you read or hear. Get out and VOTE!

JAFLW

You bet I will...It won't be for Obama & Crew

145 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:53:52pm

re: #125 Occasional Reader

Speaking of which... from our "historical illiteracy" files.

I don't know what to write.

I just feel it.

146 Dianna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:53:55pm

re: #129 Ward Cleaver

I'm not sure. I know only that Obama missed seeing her while she was dying, which really troubled me.

My father passed very suddenly, last year, but at least I'd seen him at Christmas, and we'd made our peace before that.

147 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:54:01pm

Yep, when Israel is wiped off the map, the American jewry will put on their pearls, go to services on Yom Kippur and say that their vote was "an honest mistake". God will know better and no amount of fasting will erase this sin.

The media elite will also "repent" but the internet images will have a long memory and remind them that they all knew and said nothing.

148 Just Another Four-letter Word  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:54:03pm

re: #123 imploder

I don't think she thought much of a higher power.

I bet she's thinking on it now! !

JAFLW

149 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:54:35pm

re: #137 Adina in Judea

Cancer.

OK.

150 hermeneutics  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:54:43pm

re: #61 Thor-Zone

I don't get it...after all the stuff I have read about Mr. Obama and all the blog discussion I have had, how can he have such a large lead?

It doesn't make sense to me. Anyone got any good ideas?

He doesn't have a large lead. The final Gallup poll factored in a +12 Democratic advantage. In the past 30 years, the D advantage has never been greater than +4.

its a herd instinct. They're all running off a cliff together.

Mac wins.

151 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:54:48pm

re: #105 Ben Hur

Hussein's? She died of cancer, like her mother just did, IIRC, years ago, and her parents brought him up in Hawaii, where he was treated like a prince by them...the grandmother who died was the one he thew under the bus.

152 Opinionated  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:04pm

re: #7 Alouette

Jerusalem Post has been running one Obama panegyric after another. Meanwhile,

But the comments seem near universally against these people...and Obama.

Plus today there is this:

Note to Dems: Why McCain wins in Israel

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

153 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:09pm

There is no getting though to the idol-worshipers. I know, I've tried. Those Jewish or otherwise that are bowing down to the golden-Obama, won't be swayed. No matter how much information I presented to them about what a shmuck Obama was, they came back with platitudes, and other Jewish-by-birth Obama worshipers quotes.

154 Beach Lover  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:11pm

re: #131 redstateredneck

The illegal aunt in Boston!

ya think he will take her with him to the funeral?
me either

155 J.S.  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:19pm

re: #108 buzzsawmonkey

now, that's almost funny...(if it weren't so tragic)...

156 Outrider  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:40pm

re: #141 redstateredneck

Cancer. He uses her death in his stump speech about her fighting with her insurance company who said her cancer was a pre-existing condition.

Do I not understand the insurance business very well? People expect to enroll in an insurance plan with a pre-exiting condition that will probably cost the company a million in exchange for a couple hundred $ a month? Have I misunderstood?

157 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:49pm

My condolences to Barack Obama & his family.

158 Dianna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:50pm

re: #149 Ben Hur

OK.

What, I'm invisible?

159 runrabbitrun  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:55:56pm

re: #107 Occasional Reader

It's a shame about Obama's grandma.

(And yes, I do have to wonder if this won't garner him some margin of "sympathy vote".)

Has anyone heard if Obama will continue to campaign? I can understand either decision...

160 rexatosis  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:56:10pm

Obama's concept of Foreign Policy, appeasement and weakness, do not work and that has been proven over and over again by history. The assumption by certain elites in the West that peace in the Middle East and the Islamic world can be gained by abandoning Israel ignores the history of Islam and non-Islamic populations (Armenians, Hindus, Orthodox Christians, Animists, Buddists, Coptics, etc.). The Islamic world has little tolerance for non-Moslems unless the non-Muslems provide specific technical expertise and can be placed within some system of quartantine (or ghetto). Obama's embrace of warmed over Marxist critiques of America's "Imperialist" foreign policy is as flawed now as it was in the 1980's (to attack Reagan), and the Vietnam Era (to whitewash the horror inflicted upon those in Southeast Asia by the Communists of Vietnam and Cambodia.) Obama, based on his world view and current circumstance, may prove to be not a reincarnation of Jimmy Carter but James Buchanan, a far more frightening possibility.

161 hermeneutics  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:56:14pm

re: #146 Dianna

I'm not sure. I know only that Obama missed seeing her while she was dying, which really troubled me.

My father passed very suddenly, last year, but at least I'd seen him at Christmas, and we'd made our peace before that.

I found it troubling that Obama spent one hour with her during his time in Hawaii. ONE HOUR? That's not grieving ... that's a drive-by goodbye. He's all show, no substance.

162 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:56:21pm

re: #109 imploder

I like it when Chavez feels the squeeze, along with amhadinejad. Where's all their hubris now? Will Hugo give free heating oil to the suburbs of Boston again this year?

/With Bobby Kennedy, Jr. helping, no doubt.

163 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:56:37pm

re: #154 Beach Lover

ya think he will take her with him to the funeral?
me either


She's his aunt on his father's side anyway.

164 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:57:06pm

re: #153 WrathofG-d

Wrath,

You have my vote.

165 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:57:10pm

re: #156 Outrider

Do
I not understand the insurance business very well? People expect to
enroll in an insurance plan with a pre-exiting condition that will
probably cost the company a million in exchange for a couple hundred $
a month? Have I misunderstood?

"That's not fair that I have to pay for my own health insurance! What kind of Communist country do we live in?"
/Mac & Charlie, Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia

166 Meremortal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:57:19pm

re: #111 FrogMarch

whoa! right on -- great song! Do you guys tour?


+
Thanks, we love the 60's stuff, and do a lot of English invasion tunes, Animals, Zombies, Stones, Beatles and The Who. We mix in Tom Petty and it's a good stew. No tours yet, but we have talked about going to Europe. They love the stuff we do.

167 Brees  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:57:22pm

Another story (a good one that needs to be read) that will never make it to the libs, that need to read it.

Yet again, something that will be suppressed by the "in the tank" media

168 DeafDog  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:58:17pm

re: #161 hermeneutics

I found it troubling that Obama spent one hour with her during his time in Hawaii. ONE HOUR? That's not grieving ... that's a drive-by goodbye. He's all show, no substance.

If she were a GI, he may have skipped her visit entirely.

169 Dianna  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:58:17pm

re: #161 hermeneutics

I was bothered by it, too.

170 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:58:22pm

A large proportion of American Jews are angry that Israel, beginning in 1967, robbed them of their victimhood by winning a major war against the Arab powers and becoming the dominant regional power. They're even more angry that under Likud governments, Israel rejected pure socialism and became a successful capitalist country. Israel has become an embarrassment to them in front of their Lefty friends.

Now, a major military defeat of Israel that destroyed its capitalist economy and caused a suitably high loss of civilian lives would turn everything around for them: they could feel proud to be associated with a pusillanimous victim state.

171 midwestgak  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:58:26pm

re: #102 Rovers Return

It's my first comment.
I find it amazing that half the people in this country are willing to overlook Obama's agendas, affiliations, and audio soundbites. I find it even more amazing that the Jewish Democrats aren't looking around at each other and asking themselves, "Why are we voting for this man?".

Welcome to LGF posting. Keep em coming.

172 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:58:27pm

re: #159 runrabbitrun

Has anyone heard if Obama will continue to campaign? I can understand either decision...

I'll bet he still has the partay in Grant Park tomorrow night. Wouldn't want to disappoint all those peope...

/

173 midwestgak  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:58:38pm

bbl

174 jemima  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:59:04pm

If your Jewishness extends no further than eating matzoh at Passover then what kind of connection do you really have to Israel? Cultural Jews are above all this Jewish stuff, it's so like from the shtetl...eewww. Ya want them to embrace the whole megillah?

175 Colin Nelson  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:59:34pm

One look at the Obama group of advisors including Zbig B, Samantha Power, and (shudder) even Denis Ross says it all for me.

We barely made it through the Carter years when Zbig's distorted world view held sway.

Though I've defended Ross in the past, I believe that he and the others (Y. Belin for example) on our US/Israeli side were completely taken in by the Oslo back channel and process.

It was a dead letter from the beginning - its aim and purpose was to save Arafish and the PLO from bankruptcy and irrelevance in faraway Tunis where Sharon had banished him.

176 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 1:59:56pm

re: #164 NY Nana

Thanks. You seen what the bad-ol-boys in J'lem are doing to their own people this week?

177 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:00:08pm

Time to say goodnight, Lizards. I'll be working the polls tomorrow, so if the government is still intact, I'll see y'all on Wednesday!

178 Thor-Zone  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:00:18pm

re: #150 hermeneutics

I sure hope you're right!

179 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:00:53pm
180 Outrider  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:01:20pm

re: #165 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

"That's not fair that I have to pay for my own health insurance! What kind of Communist country do we live in?"
/Mac & Charlie, Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Strangely enough, I understand. While I was serving in the Army, I was promised free military medical/dental for my wife and I for life IF I served as a career. That all went away and I was told due to changing circumstances we would now have to enroll and pay into a plan. We do although I have many acquaintances that get faster and just as good medical care than I do and they get it for free.

Just another shredded promise to the military members over the years.

181 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:02:13pm

So dear Zeituni has been under the watchful eye of Deval Patrick all along and Obama knew!

Two frauds working together

182 rusty_armor  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:02:18pm

Jews have ALWAYS given their support to people who were unworthy of that support. When my people endorse a political candidate, flee to the opposition ...

183 MellyMel  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:02:51pm

Oh great. I post that THEN GO BACK up and find out about his grandmother. Jeez.

184 flaggman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:03:57pm

I hate to say it, but it's true. All of my Jewish family and friends in Michigan and Florida have fallen under the spell. I can't get any serious reason out of them, other than "Palin's not up to it". It's beyond me how otherwise very intelligent, very successful people can be so daft: I'll vote for the guy who's sympathies and policies will clearly put Israel in jeopardy, because I've been told not to like the other guy's shiksa VP choice.

185 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:05:19pm

re: #175 Colin Nelson

One look at the Obama group of advisors including Zbig B, Samantha Power, and (shudder) even Denis Ross says it all for me.

We barely made it through the Carter years when Zbig's distorted world view held sway.

Though I've defended Ross in the past, I believe that he and the others (Y. Belin for example) on our US/Israeli side were completely taken in by the Oslo back channel and process.

It was a dead letter from the beginning - its aim and purpose was to save Arafish and the PLO from bankruptcy and irrelevance in faraway Tunis where Sharon had banished him.

The Oslo Criminals in Israel are 100% unrepentant for what the Oslo Accords did to Israel and for the 1500 Jewish lives lost as a direct result of the phony peace process.

Dennis Ross is no better than these guys. He still sees peace possible with "Palestinians" who openly tell their own people that they will have all of Israel.

The Oslo Criminals and their supporters think that the reason the Oslo Accords didn't work was that Israel didn't help the "Palestinians" enough even though the "Palestinians'" only goal was to end Israel's existence. They never wanted a state.

Dennis Ross is an Obama adviser and he will promote the end of Israel's existence (G-d forbid) if Obama is elected (G-d forbid.)

186 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:05:20pm

re: #184 flaggman

I hate to say it, but it's true. All of my Jewish family and friends in Michigan and Florida have fallen under the spell. I can't get any serious reason out of them, other than "Palin's not up to it". It's beyond me how otherwise very intelligent, very successful people can be so daft: I'll vote for the guy who's sympathies and policies will clearly put Israel in jeopardy, because I've been told not to like the other guy's shiksa VP choice.


Then all the blacks will love the jews and the world will be perfect though Israel is no more?

187 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:07:32pm

re: #166 Meremortal

+
Thanks, we love the 60's stuff, and do a lot of English invasion tunes, Animals, Zombies, Stones, Beatles and The Who. We mix in Tom Petty and it's a good stew. No tours yet, but we have talked about going to Europe. They love the stuff we do.

How fun. Music is such a great outlet.

188 Meremortal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:07:51pm

re: #100 The Other Les

I never thought that I would ever see anyone say that they were going to do a John Galt outside of an Objectivist forum.


+
There is one interesting parallel. I have a second home in a small backwater town in the mountains of Colorado. Obama wins, it becomes my main home sooner than planned.

189 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:07:56pm

re: #147 SpartanWoman

Yep, when Israel is wiped off the map, the American jewry will put on their pearls, go to services on Yom Kippur and say that their vote was "an honest mistake". God will know better and no amount of fasting will erase this sin.

The media elite will also "repent" but the internet images will have a long memory and remind them that they all knew and said nothing.

...and in 50 years, people will be denying that Israel existed and was destroyed by its enemies.

190 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:07:57pm
191 Age Of Freedom  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:08:40pm

re: #7 Alouette

Jerusalem Post has been running one Obama panegyric after another. Meanwhile, YNet is blaming all of Israel's problems on "settlers" and "haredim."

Not completely accurate. They definitely blindly blame the settlers and IDF actions, not at all Haredim.

It's really more about giving Jew-hating arabs and palis stages for op-eds way more than the NYT can ever imagine of triumphing.

192 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:09:44pm
193 Meremortal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:09:52pm

re: #187 FrogMarch

How fun. Music is such a great outlet.


+
How true. Go to thiniceband.com, scroll down the first page to hear two originals from our upcoming CD.

194 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:10:47pm

re: #189 eschew_obfuscation

...and in 50 years, people will be denying that Israel existed and was destroyed by its enemies.

Well it's all about their safety in America and being liked. I am disgusted.

195 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:11:18pm
196 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:11:41pm

The American Secular-Jewish Public: Dazed & Confused.

Them Then...Them Now.

197 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:12:27pm

re: #191 Age Of Freedom

The Israeli media blaming the post-1967 communities? There must be an election coming up.

198 Wishing  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:12:45pm

re: #87 Beach Lover

Boy, that is gonna put a strange twist to his day tomorrow. How can he not go to Hawaii?

Just watch...toots would understand, etc.

199 sagamoregal  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:15:04pm

So, John McCain's mother has outlived Obama's grandmother.

I'll bet my annual salary that McCain outlives "lifelong smoker" Obama.

200 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:16:08pm

Does this 3% (100% of Jewish population in America) really matter all that much?

201 Adina in Judea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:16:27pm

re: #199 sagamoregal

So, John McCain's mother has outlived Obama's grandmother.

I'll bet my annual salary that McCain outlives "lifelong smoker" Obama.

John McCain's Mom still looks pretty active, too!

202 dhg4  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:16:49pm

re: #2 DesertSage

If I were Israel, I'd be very afraid of an Obama presidency!

It may not be hypothetical!

203 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:17:39pm

I cannot understand why Jews support obama, except perhaps that their bush derangement syndrome overtakes their concern for their fellow Jews.

In my own family, only my very shrewd uncle is a Republican. The rest hate Bush so much that they'd vote for any non-Republican as long as the person didn't wear a swastika.

My wonderful wife, who is no flaming liberal by any means said she would have considered McCain if he had not picked Palin as his running mate. I told her that I vote for the top of the ticket, not the bottom. But she is unmoved.

We can only hope that the good people across this country with a lot more common sense than than these reflexive anti-Republicans who share my religion will save our country.

I will actually pray very hard tonight for a McCain victory.

P.S. ... Condolences on the passing of Madeline Dunham

204 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:17:51pm

re: #176 WrathofG-d

Wrath,

The past 2 weeks I have been in a state of suspended animation, so help me. Not in my worst nightmares could I ever even imagine that Obama could win, and now?

I put a prayer in the Kotel by email every day...I must admit that I am behind on the news. I dread tomorrow. No election in my life has ever affected me this way.

I just hope that I will be able to sleep tonight. My blood sugars are high, and I never remember feeling so scared re an election. I have to keep praying for McCain..and hope for the best.

205 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:18:59pm

re: #200 WrathofG-d

Does this 3% (100% of Jewish population in America) really matter all that much?

I'm sure that's what Obama's team will be asking when they allow Iran to prevail. No, Obama will not care that they voted for him.

206 thedude  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:19:58pm

Come Jan 21, 2009; once the Red Guard, err; the National Civilian Security Forces will be out enforcing the streets and securing the homes of USSA, collecting the reparations for NAACP and DNC fairness agencies, uhh...the "distribution of wealth" taxes; be sure to print out this banner to hang in your living room to appear as one of the lapdogs of Hussein~~~

Image: change.jpg

go out and vote as if your life depended upon it...vote McCain/Palin!

207 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:22:50pm
208 Strike Hornet  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:23:31pm

re: #36 Ben Hur

ISRAEL IS NOT A CENTRAL ISSUE TO AMERICAN JEWS.

And here's another newsflash:

THE SEAT OF JEWISH POWER IN THE WORLD IS NOT IN NEW YORK, LOS ANGELES OR MIAMI.

IT IS IN JERUSALEM.

American Jews do not vote in Israel.

Israelis do not vote in America.

When Jews are attacked in the former Soviet Union, or in Paris, it is not AMERICAN JEWS that come to their defense, it is the GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

most of my Jewish friends (50 and under) are far more concerned with supporting the ACLU than they are supporting Israel. Older Jewish friends (60+) however do support Israel first and are voting McCain.

209 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:25:09pm

re: #200 WrathofG-d

Take a look at these numbers, and this is from 2006.

Even in NY, we are losing Jews. Schuls are closing or combining...and LI? Shrinking so fast..I have an article I will send you..same thing in the County where I live. We have to go further away to get kosher meat, poultry, etc. If I am not mistaken, Florida now has the largest Jewish population in the US.

Scary.

210 Bumr50  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:25:36pm

Many Jews will vote for McCain and say they voted for Obama. It's too "cloddish" to come out in support of McCain, but I honestly think that McCain will find much undisclosed support, especially in this demograhic.
At least that's what I'm thinkin'...

211 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:27:12pm

JEWS,

if you wish to support Israel, and ensure Israel's safety, here are some suggestions.

In the Morning.

In the Evening.

On the Weekends.

When Eating.

At all times remember...

VOTE everyday!

212 rusty_armor  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:27:21pm

re: #210 Bumr50

Many Jews will vote for McCain and say they voted for Obama. It's too "cloddish" to come out in support of McCain, but I honestly think that McCain will find much undisclosed support, especially in this demograhic.
At least that's what I'm thinkin'...

From your mouth to His ear . . .

213 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:29:55pm

re: #204 NY Nana

Just remember "NY Nana", it isn't all in Obama's hands, and sleep well.

214 Irenike  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:30:34pm

#204 NY Nana,

I sympathize. I've been waking up in the middle of the night for several weeks now, unable to comprehend how an incompetent Marxist like Obama has gotten this far. I have been losing a lot of sleep worrying about how bad he is going to be, assuming he gets in. You can bet I've been praying a lot.

I am utterly confounded by the glib acceptance he has among secular Jews. They are engaged in magical thinking. I'm equally confounded by the affluent people in my neighborhood who have the pro-Obama signs on their lawns. Are these folks feeling the weight of too much money in their pockets, that they need the government to relieve them of it? Oh, they'll get their wish allright. And then some.

215 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:32:03pm

re: #214 Irenike

because it is 5769 & we haven't been doing our job, is why! We have had two options, which did you choose today?

216 NY Nana  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:34:25pm

re: #213 WrathofG-d

Just remember "NY Nana", it isn't all in Obama's hands, and sleep well.

No, it is not all in Obama's hands, as he thinks it is.

Thanks, Wrath...I will try to. NY Grampa will get very little sleep, as he is an election inspector, and has to be up at 4 AM, to be at the polls, which open at 6 AM and close at 9 PM, at 5 AM...and it will be mobbed from what we hear, in a very blue area.

217 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:35:55pm

re: #190 buzzsawmonkey

Since the formation of the PLO, American blacks have been trained by their Marxist, separatist, and antisemite leaders (the same ones who wrested the civil rights movement from King) to identify with the "Palestinians" and to hate both Jews and Israel.
Even Condi Rice, a supposed conservative, has been infected by this. Barack and Michelle Obama are in this mindset up to their necks.

Of course it's all about the JOOOS.

218 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:35:58pm

I have done everything I can to warn people about Israel and Obama but I have been called a carzy alarmist and a racist for doing so. I have lost a few friends, but if O is as bad as his past predicts they will not be able to claim ignorance and I will not listen to their tears. Some of them have relatives in Israel but will vote "cool" instead of safe.

219 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:37:37pm
220 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:37:42pm

re: #207 Iron Fist

Ammo report:

So I went to Wal-Mart to get some ammo, just in case I might need it, and it was interesting. They were out of the .45 JHPs I prefer (but had ball), had 9mm, and had a special on .223, 200 JHPs for $70. Apparently I wasn't the only person to stop by for a combat loadout today.

Interesting.

Heh! You havent been to some of the other, more gun-oriented, sites have you? I understand people have been hitting cheaperthandirt and ammoman hard for a couple of months.

221 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:37:55pm

re: #216 NY Nana

Heh! If Obama wins, maybe now its your chance to move go to Israel.

222 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:39:41pm

re: #219 buzzsawmonkey

Have you read the article entitled "What Makes Bernie Run"? You should search it, and read it.

I do not endorse the writer on other subjects, but this article is really interesting, and I believe you would enjoy it.

223 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:40:18pm

re: #207 Iron Fist

Ammo report:

So I went to Wal-Mart to get some ammo, just in case I might need it, and it was interesting. They were out of the .45 JHPs I prefer (but had ball), had 9mm, and had a special on .223, 200 JHPs for $70. Apparently I wasn't the only person to stop by for a combat loadout today.

Interesting.

I am fairly well prepared in that area as of yesterday.

I am not expecting Big Trouble. But... better safe, etc.

224 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:42:15pm

re: #221 WrathofG-d

Heh! If Obama wins, maybe now its your chance to move go to Israel.

If Obama wins I will beg my daughter to return from Israel

225 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:42:29pm

People, please stop this orgy of Jews blaming Jews for the feared election of Obama.
Obama will not be elected or defeated by the Jewish vote, although that is precisely what some may want to lay on us.
Get a grip.
Your cannibalistic behaviour is an obscenity.

226 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:46:28pm

re: #224 SpartanWoman

We are all going there eventually. I can't say so much for Ha'Medinat, but Israel (Am and Ha'Eretz) will be fine.

227 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:47:08pm

re: #225 Spare O'Lake

The jewish vote in Florida could be important and jewish voters in NY certainly make this blue state blue. I resent the self-destructiveness of choosing to vote for a man whose record and choices of advisors show that he is no friend of Israel. That is a bigger obscenity than anything said here on LGF

228 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:47:12pm

re: #225 Spare O'Lake

People, please stop this orgy of Jews blaming Jews for the feared election of Obama.
Obama will not be elected or defeated by the Jewish vote, although that is precisely what some may want to lay on us.
Get a grip.
Your cannibalistic behaviour is an obscenity.

Amen to that.

229 rusty_armor  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:48:47pm

re: #227 SpartanWoman

The jewish vote in Florida could be important and jewish voters in NY certainly make this blue state blue. I resent the self-destructiveness of choosing to vote for a man whose record and choices of advisors show that he is no friend of Israel. That is a bigger obscenity than anything said here on LGF

You took the word right out of my mouth ...

230 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:49:38pm

If Likud gets in and 0bama gets in, Dinnerjacket better start wearing his flack jacket. I cannot see my way past Israel not launching a preemptive attack on the Iranian nuke facilities and taking out a bit of Tehran along the way. A nuclear explosion to create an EMP and disable most of the infrastructure of the country without outright nuking a city would be an interesting move on their part. Apart from taking out the power grid, it would take out every fuel injected engine within the radius of the EMP. Those things are run by computers and are not hardened. No computer, no fuel injection, no transport. How hardened their radar might be is something I do not know. Their air force would not fare well given the older technology. If they were to do it and if it were to work, they could pound the crap out of whatever they felt like at their leisure. But that is more ifs than I feel comfortable with.

231 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:50:05pm
232 Irenike  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:51:25pm

#215 Wrath of G-d,

I don't quite understand your question. Do you mean the two choices between life and death, or between McCain and Obama?

I choose life and freedom. That is why I voted for McCain with an absentee ballot. My father is dying of cancer, and I wasn't sure I'd be back in California on time to cast my vote.

233 rabidfox  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:52:39pm

re: #40 Killian Bundy

That is an absolutely absurd stand -- genocide does not equal peace.

234 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:55:52pm

re: #232 Irenike

I actually meant the decision of all Jews to either assimilate into the secular-Christian community, and secularism, or to proudly take on the Job H'S uniquely gave to us. We are CHOOSEN to do a job, but most secular-present-day-Jews refuse to take up this challenge...thus we find ourselves in this predicament again and again.

235 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:56:01pm

Speaking of Iran, from Iranfocus we have:

Iran says oil under 60 dollars troubling for economy PDF Print E-mail
Monday, 03 November 2008

ImageTEHRAN, November 3, 2008 (AFP) - Iran's central bank warned on Monday that if oil prices fall under 60 dollars a barrel, the country's oil-dependent economy will struggle to survive the world financial crisis, the ISNA news agency reported.

"If average price of oil stays at 60.6 dollars in the remaining five months of the current year (to March 2009), we can get through this crisis safe and sound," the bank's deputy for economic affairs, Ramin Pashaifam, was quoted as saying.

"If the price falls under this, our economy will face big problems."

Oil prices surged to record highs in July of close to 150 dollars a barrel but have since plunged, with OPEC's basket price standing at 57.65 dollars on Friday, despite the cartel deciding to cut its output.

Crude income accounts for 80 percent of foreign earnings for Iran, OPEC's second largest exporter, making the economy highly vulnerable to oil price shifts.

Pashaifam said that with a minimum price of 60 dollars, Iran will still need to use savings from oil revenues to cover its budget needs.

"In a case of 60 dollars per barrel for oil, no cash will remain in the Oil Stabilisation Fund," he said, referring to a fund which aims to guard against price fluctuations and to finance private sector projects.

Economy Minister Shamseddin Hosseini said on Monday that the fund now contained 25 billion dollars.

Analysts say Iran needs a price of around 80 dollars to survive inflation and a global economic downturn.

---

Closing price today on NYMEX oil was $63.80, Gasoline was 1.36

236 Dave the.....  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 2:58:47pm

Why may Obama win, considering his past, background, economic views, social views, most liberal Senator, etc? Here are some the things I've heard from co-workers today, who intend to vote for Obama:

"ACORN? What's that?"

When I bring up specifics about Obama's economic plans...things he said repeatedly what he will do, I hear "What? No! He is not going to do any of that."

"McCain is just too conservative" (to which I then bang my head on a table)

"Republicans want to do away with social security"

When I give direct quotes of the kind of judges he said he will put in..."no. He never said that".


There are a few people (like the guy who goes from desk to desk campaigning for Obama each day) who I think know the truth, but want their guy to win so don't admit in front of others the truth. But many people are just naive.

237 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:00:15pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

If, chas v'sholom, Obama is elected, there will be more than enough blame to go around.

However, there are particular reasons why Jews, particularly Orthodox Jews and particularly Jews who loudly proclaim their support for Israel, should know better than to be hoodwinked by the SDS Candidate.

There is evidence that many who should know better refuse to. And it is perfectly legitimate to talk about this.

Forgive me, I didn't mean to try to stifle the argument, but rather simply to bring down the volume and keep it in perspective.
Carry on.

238 smmellvir  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:01:43pm

Obama has no foreign policy experience and will reach out to his advisors for their experience and knowledge too bad their vision is a one state solution were Arabs are the majority.

239 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:03:52pm
240 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:05:52pm

How can Obama be bad for Israel, he said he was going to keep Jerusalem unified.

241 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:08:32pm
242 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:10:18pm

re: #241 buzzsawmonkey

Seriously though. We worry about what the POTUS is going to do but completely ignore what Israel is doing to itself and what it refuses to do.

For example:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I just hope there is something left by the time Obama comes around and possibly ruins it.

243 SpartanWoman  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:10:44pm

re: #240 WrathofG-d

How can Obama be bad for Israel, he said he was going to keep Jerusalem unified.

Where's your sarc tag? He immediately retracted that and said it was "up for negotiation".

244 puckish and beguiling  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:11:52pm

re: #117 Intrepid

Stanley Ann died years ago, from what, I don't know.

Ovarian cancer I think.

245 Luxomni  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:11:54pm

Le-shanah ha-ba-a b'Yerushalayim'
Next year in Jerusalem

The traditional last line of the Passover seder (dinner).
Well, if Obama wins, they left off a line - Next year in Jerusalem will be only Muslims.

246 Irenike  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:12:02pm

#234 Wrath of G-d

I agree that Jews have been entrusted with the responsibility of bringing ethical monotheism to the world. That is why my husband and I are raising our children in an explicitly religious household, complete with daily Torah readings.

Contrary to what you implied in your posting, I don't see Christianity in opposition to Judaism the way that secularism is. Christianity is a legitimate path to God, and many observant American Christians are big supporters of Israel. The gravest assimilationist threats to Jews, in my opinion, are not Christians, but the seductive secular "isms" of our day: environmentalism, feminism, humanism, Obamaism, Marxism, etc.

247 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:14:20pm

re: #246 Irenike

G-d bless you in how you are making your household! That is the "voting" we all really should be doing.

You are also right about the "isms", including the gateway-drugs "reformism" "Conservatism" and "Kabbalahism".

248 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:15:58pm

re: #219 buzzsawmonkey

I totally agree with that.

249 yochanan  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:21:22pm

re: #36 Ben Hur

besides the religion ortho. jews offen have family members in israel eather as olah or learning in yeshivah there. so to us it is personal, more than half of the american imigrants to israel are ortho. My first grand daughter was born in Jerusalem so to me Israel is very personal i worry more about Israel than i do America. America is a big country and our enimies are not at our door step.

250 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:22:53pm

re: #179 buzzsawmonkey

I would strongly disagree with you.

Say rather, that since 1967 American Jews, many of them even before 1967 in thrall to liberalism over Judaism, have since 1967 continued to follow the liberal line, which--with its increasingly hard-left stance--has led them far away from support for Israel and down the path to unthinking leftism.

Before 1967, Israel was the victim/underdog state, even after proving its military prowess in the Suez Campaign of 1956 (because the USA forced it to retreat without exacting anything in exchange for the captured Sinai). This made it possible for Leftists to approve of Socialist Zionism as an alternative to religious Zionism.

After 1967, however, Socialism and Zionism became increasingly difficult to reconcile. And in the USA, the Socialist tradition of Jews (like my great-grandparents, who escaped Tsarist Russia and who were hoodwinked by the Soviets into thinking that the USSR was a paradise for Jews) won out over the religious tradition.

Don't underestimate the underdog factor as a motivator for American Leftists, Jewish or otherwise. Consider QUIT -- Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism -- a gay US organization that condemns the one state in the Mideast where gays have civil rights and that defends the people who believe it is their religious duty to stone gays to death.

251 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:26:35pm

re: #249 yochanan

It is always amazing to me that the same people who drone on about the Holocaust, refuse to see the potential holocaust at our doorstep. To them the destruction of the Jewish people is some thing over there, or some thing that almost happened to us in the past. There is no sense of the NOW.

Just like the German's and other Europeans that Hertzl and others tried to warn, the comfortable Jews of the world refuse to see the danger at its doorstep.

We should have learned this mistake in Egypt...

252 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:27:28pm

re: #232 Irenike

re: #200 WrathofG-d

Does this 3% (100% of Jewish population in America) really matter all that much?

Yes. Jews are more politically active and bigger drivers of fundraising than their small numbers would indicate. Put it this way: if the 3% of Jews in America were insignificant, would Obama have gone before AIPAC and the Israeli Knesset to pander to them?

253 JWill  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:30:54pm

Reason is not universal. Those who do not see it cannot be conquered by it.

254 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:31:17pm

re: #252 stuiec

yes. I think the Jewish power is imagined. If Obama actually knew anything about the Jewish community, he would know that his Leftist Jewish base couldn't really care about the future of Israel. The polls show that it really isnt' important for the Jewish "youth" or American Jewish voter.

Its a myth.

255 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:32:14pm

re: #252 stuiec

Furthermore, let's assume that either candidate got 100% of the Jewish vote...so what? Now they get an extra 3%? That still wouldn't sway most polls.

256 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:32:41pm

re: #251 WrathofG-d

It is always amazing to me that the same people who drone on about the Holocaust, refuse to see the potential holocaust at our doorstep. To them the destruction of the Jewish people is some thing over there, or some thing that almost happened to us in the past. There is no sense of the NOW.

Just like the German's and other Europeans that Hertzl and others tried to warn, the comfortable Jews of the world refuse to see the danger at its doorstep.

We should have learned this mistake in Egypt...

The chilling thing is how many American Jews would feel much happier if the danger manifested itself more tangibly. On the one hand is guilt for not having suffered as Europe's Jews did, and on the other is the desire to have the years of "bridge building" pay off in the Gentiles rising to the defense of the Jews against new persecution. (While I know that many righteous Gentiles would indeed defend us, it's not the best place to place one's faith.)

The Hebrews didn't learn the lesson in Egypt, they learned it in the desert and in the campaigns to conquer the Promised Land. And eventually they unlearned the lesson -- and relearned it, and unlearned it, over and over.

257 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:34:12pm

re: #256 stuiec

I don't know about that first part.

258 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:36:01pm

re: #255 WrathofG-d

Furthermore, let's assume that either candidate got 100% of the Jewish vote...so what? Now they get an extra 3%? That still wouldn't sway most polls.

Closer to 100 percent of eligible Jews vote, compared to around 50 percent of all voters, which means that the Jews account for 5 or 6 percent of the total electorate: enough to swing a close election.

But more important, if Obama got 100 percent of money raised by Jewish political organizations and activists, and 100 percent of the media promotion by Jewish reporters and columnists, that would be a big advantage. And -- surprise, surprise -- he almost has.

259 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:37:35pm

re: #239 buzzsawmonkey

Believe me, I understand what you are saying.
One thing, though - Jews never have been and never will be a monolithic political force. And that goes for observant Jews as well as secular Jews.
Just look at the political landscape of Israel where it sometimes seems that there are more political parties than people.
So the idea that all or even most Jews can ever be persuaded to a common point of view on anything is a surefire recipe for indigestion.
And the spectacle of Jews viciously attacking other Jews in public...I feel it is a shandeh and it pains even a Canadian secular agnostic like me.
Shalom.

260 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:39:27pm

re: #258 stuiec

As usual, you tend to simply confuse me. Are you attempting to just simply prove your point, or create an environment where I am supposed to believe now that Jews have all the voting power, swing votes, and control the money, and the media?

Maybe you can help me out on this one.

261 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:40:06pm

re: #259 Spare O'Lake

Study the story of chanukkah.

262 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:40:20pm

re: #257 WrathofG-d

I don't know about that first part.

You don't?

How difficult is it for rational people to say that negotiating with an enemy isn't going to work if the enemy's stated and immutable goal is the annihilation of those rational people? How difficult is it for them to say that until the enemy moderates its position, the only rational thing to do is to separate from and contain that enemy -- assuming that eliminating the enemy outright is not an option?

And even as easy as it is to say those things, many American Jews find them impossible to say. Instead, they find it easy to believe that one can negotiate peace with people whose sworn goal is genocide, and that one has a duty to lift one's foot off the enemy's neck so that he can have dignity (even if his definition of dignity is repaying mercy and tolerance with murder).

263 alexknyc  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:40:38pm

I gave up trying to inform my family of any of this.

They wouldn't vote for McCain if Obama went on TV wearing a swastika and strangled a puppy.

264 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:44:32pm

re: #260 WrathofG-d

As usual, you tend to simply confuse me. Are you attempting to just simply prove your point, or create an environment where I am supposed to believe now that Jews have all the voting power, swing votes, and control the money, and the media?

Maybe you can help me out on this one.

No, Jews do not have ALL the voting power, money and media control.

But in proportion to our number in America, we have a disproportionate share of the vote, of fundraising power, of media access.

Unfortunately, at this point, the majority of us seem also to be in thrall to Leftism, judging by the polls projecting around 70 percent of the American Jewish vote going for Obama.

(Here's another way to look at it: how has it gone for the Arab and Muslim nations since they expelled their Jewish minorities in 1949-1950? Do you think that losing that tiny segment of their societies might have something to do with how far behind they have fallen in social and economic development?)

265 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:45:39pm

re: #262 stuiec

I think that all stems from their desire (as it was of those before WW2) to simply not stick their head out as Jews. They want to "just negotiate" because they don't want to be seen as separate. They think that by negotiating they can just go back and assimilate into the public again. They are attempting (as was the desire of most American Jews before WW2) to just "make it all go away".

They are embarrassed of their Jewishness. All this talk of Jews, and Israel, and War On Terror, and Holy Land, and Torah, etc., really makes them embarrassed and uncomfortable. They really don't want anyone else to go out of their way because of "The Jews". They are embarrased, ashamed and don't think they deserve the same rights of security as everyone else. They just want it all to go away, and think that negotiation (even a bad one) is the least offensive tactic so as if not to raise the attention on them.

266 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:45:56pm

re: #261 WrathofG-d

Study the story of chanukkah.

It's a little too oily in the year for that. ;D

267 Irenike  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:46:25pm

#254 Wrath of G-d,

I fear that you are right about the fact that the Leftist Jewish base doesn't really care about Israel. My read is that Obama did his token speech in front of AIPAC, because that is the traditional American thing to do. It was an expected speech to make on the way to the White House. He will pretend to placate the Jews as long as he needs to. The minute he doesn't need to, he will sell Jews and Israel down the river.

But the thing that counts isn't Obama's true feelings toward Jews. It's how Americans in general will react to his betrayal of the Jews. A lot of Jews who voted for Carter now think Carter stinks, once he came out with his book declaring Israel an apartheid state. A lot of Americans were turned off as well. The same disenchantment will likely happen with Obama, but who knows what damage will be done in the meanwhile. I fear that he may very well pave the way for anti-semitism to become an acceptable viewpoint in the USA, just as it has become de rigeur on college campuses.

268 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:47:21pm

re: #264 stuiec

To answer your last part. As the Torah states (last week actually IIRC) the nations who bless you, will be blessed by you. (or something like that).

This is why I believe nations are hurt when they hurt their Jewish populations.

We were chosen don't you know.

269 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:49:48pm

re: #267 Irenike

I wholeheartedly agree and fear your last statement. For better or worse however, I believe it to be an inevitability. If you are to study Anti-Semitism in Soviet Union, and in Germany pre 1940s, you can see a lot of parallels.

Theodore Hetzl and many others were warning the Jewish populations about their impending doom as early as the 1800s.

The American "Holocaust" might not be around the corner, but its coming.

We will ALL end up in Israel.

270 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:51:24pm
271 Promethea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:52:10pm

re: #15 rawmuse

I have carefully avoided any comments on the voting practices of (secular) Jews in the USA, except to say that I find them puzzling, and often bereft of any evidence of normal self preservation instincts.

I also find them puzzling, and I'm surrounded by them, including husband, children, sister, brother, father, uncles, nieces, nephews, etc. I haven't even begun to list friends--all of them. :-(

It's very very sad. There is not even the teeny tiniest interest in why I'm supporting McCain. The cement has congealed in the brains of these people--my very dearest people.

I have no explanation except that most of my family and friends are just not smart when it comes to the outside world. They are childish in their voting habits.

I used to be one of them so I know just how opaque the bubble they live in is. But it's not possible to introduce any new facts whatsoever. That's what's so sad.

I hope other Jewish families have better luck in getting out of their bubble. I've given up. I was going to send my husband this link to Mere Rhetoric, but I know it won't do any good. For the sake of our marriage, we've agreed not to talk about national politics at all. Very sad.

272 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:55:14pm

My family is/will be Torahpublicanocrats.

273 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:56:10pm
274 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 3:56:10pm

re: #269 WrathofG-d

The American "Holocaust" might not be around the corner, but its coming.

Oy vay, bite your tongue you silly person.
If you really believe that then why aren't you in Israel already?
Or do you mean it might not happen for another 200 years?

275 Promethea  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:01:49pm

re: #53 Honorary Yooper

Well, I'm either going to be gutsy or stupid (you decide which) by going to the area around the Obama rally tomorrow night in Grant Park. My goal? To document the loonies around the area. If it gets a little too hot, at least I know the area well, and I know ho to get back to the train station quickly.

Should be worth it for the pictures.

I might go there too. I'll be in the neighborhood. It will be...
i n t e r e s t i n g. How will we recognize either other?

/Just kidding. I'm going to look like the obamiest obama supporter there so I don't get beat up.

276 onepistoffyid  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:02:29pm

re: #25 Ringo the Gringo

All of my Jewish friends, with one exception, are voting for Obama.

It boggles the mind.

Not this one...actually three are more secular jews than you all seem to think that will not vote for BHO. Is seems to me from causal observation that BHO is getting alot of the female jewish secular vote, but not as much male.

277 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:03:41pm

re: #274 Spare O'Lake

I guess I should be clear. I do not believe necessarily that it will be another Holocaust as happened in Germany.

I do believe however that at some time in the future (possibly slightly under 200 years) things will be horrible here in the U.S. for Jews. When you look at the history of the Jewish people this result is inevitable. If you look at the actual "on the ground" facts of the German Holocaust, starting in the 1800s if not 1920s you will see how similar it is.

Do I want it to happen? NO! But I believe it will. The ease that the Anti-Semites are having in pushing strict antisemitism into our society under the guise (among other ways) of Anti-Zionism, etc., should be enough of a warning. One can also look at the political streams that are taking place in the U.S right now. Since the 1960s one major political party has been going towards Communism, and the other seems to be very slowly crawling towards fascism. Neither system of Government has been good for the Jews.

Jews might not be put into camps as they were in Germany, but one way or another...we're going to asked to leave.

278 onepistoffyid  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:04:58pm

re: #277 WrathofG-d

I guess I should be clear. I do not believe necessarily that it will be another Holocaust as happened in Germany.

I do believe however that at some time in the future (possibly slightly under 200 years) things will be horrible here in the U.S. for Jews. When you look at the history of the Jewish people this result is inevitable. If you look at the actual "on the ground" facts of the German Holocaust, starting in the 1800s if not 1920s you will see how similar it is.

Do I want it to happen? NO! But I believe it will. The ease that the Anti-Semites are having in pushing strict antisemitism into our society under the guise (among other ways) of Anti-Zionism, etc., should be enough of a warning. One can also look at the political streams that are taking place in the U.S right now. Since the 1960s one major political party has been going towards Communism, and the other seems to be very slowly crawling towards fascism. Neither system of Government has been good for the Jews.

Jews might not be put into camps as they were in Germany, but one way or another...we're going to asked to leave.

My response to that request: lock and load

279 BigMoo  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:23:25pm

So...will anyone be surprised when the 'international crisis' that Biden referenced comes from the Middle East ?
Anyone ?

280 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:28:37pm

re: #278 onepistoffyid

My response to that request: lock and load

Obama: Okay, now I would like all Jews to leave the country.

*click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click*
*click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click* *click*

281 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:28:58pm

re: #265 WrathofG-d

I agree that there is a tremendous amount of that.

282 stuiec  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:33:44pm

re: #270 buzzsawmonkey

I disagree, both because Jews as a group are anything but monolithic, as Spare O'Lake has pointed out, and because whatever Jews have gotten in America they bloody well earned.

To hell with this "proportionate" crap. It was bull when it was being used to decry Israel's "disproportionate response" to Hezbollah and/or Hamas, and it is bull when it is applied to Jewish presence (not "influence," not "share") in media or fundraising.

You're being obtuse. Disproportionate is a value-free adjective implying something mathematically other than a 1:1 relationship.

Jews as 3 percent of the US population will account for more than 3 percent of the votes cast in this election, because American Jews take voting more seriously than many other Americans do. In a country where around 60 percent of eligible voters actually cast ballots in a high-turnout election, Jews turn out in a much higher proportion. Their percentage of the overall vote is disproportionate to their number in the population.

We are not talking about the idiocy of imposing some gold standard of proportionality on warfare as if it were a matter of justice before the courts. We are just talking about percentages and ratios.

283 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:46:21pm

re: #276 onepistoffyid

Not this one...actually three are more secular jews than you all seem to think that will not vote for BHO. Is seems to me from causal observation that BHO is getting alot of the female jewish secular vote, but not as much male.

I am also voting McCain- but then I have read David Wyman. . .snark

284 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 4:46:55pm
285 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 5:18:37pm

re: #282 stuiec

You're being obtuse. Disproportionate is a value-free adjective implying something mathematically other than a 1:1 relationship.

Jews as 3 percent of the US population will account for more than 3 percent of the votes cast in this election, because American Jews take voting more seriously than many other Americans do. In a country where around 60 percent of eligible voters actually cast ballots in a high-turnout election, Jews turn out in a much higher proportion. Their percentage of the overall vote is disproportionate to their number in the population.

We are not talking about the idiocy of imposing some gold standard of proportionality on warfare as if it were a matter of justice before the courts. We are just talking about percentages and ratios.

Who's being obtuse here?
Let's say for argument's sake that Jews have an 80% turnout instead of 60%. That would translate to 4% vs 3%, or an extra 1% on the bottom line, which still means dick-all in terms of Jews' alleged ability to swing the election results one way or the other.

286 martinleaf  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 6:47:28pm

If Obama wins, he will do everything he can to weaken Israel, leaving Israel to the jackals. That is a good thing. Israel is better off without the kind of support Israel has been getting from the US.

Israel has been getting US military support since Nixon, 1973. And 1967 was the last time Israel truly won a war. In 1973 Golda worried what the world would think of a preemptive strike, so she didn't, and israel was brutally invaded in October 73. Israel must now get permission from America whether or not to launch military action, and what type and how long that action can last. That porcine demon Carter pressured Begin tremendously to relinquish israel's hard fought Sinai gain.

Israel's Lebanon campaign in 82 was thwarted by the US, in the guise of that jew hating, self hating Caspar the friendly ghost.

Remember, Israel is a nuclear power. That power israel doesn't even appreciate it has. So let Hussein Obama bring it on. We Jews can show him a holy war against Israel's enemies in the Mideast, at least the Jews that have that increasingly rare jewish gene for political common sense.

287 Not amazed in NJ  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 6:57:37pm

re: #147 SpartanWoman

Yep, when Israel is wiped off the map, the American jewry will put on their pearls, go to services on Yom Kippur and say that their vote was "an honest mistake". God will know better and no amount of fasting will erase this sin.

The media elite will also "repent" but the internet images will have a long memory and remind them that they all knew and said nothing.

I am still holding on to the belief that McCain will win tomorrow. If I am wrong, I hope that as each Obama voter arrives at Judgment Day will be confronted by the thousands of men and women who died to preserve the freedoms this country has provided us with, each one participating in that Judgment to ask them how they were able to so willingly vote away those freedoms that they died for.

288 Karl the Krud  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 8:33:21pm

Jews have worshipped a Golden Calf before, and were then punished by God to wander in the wilderness until that generation had perished.

289 martinleaf  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 8:48:41pm

re: #288 Karl the Krud

May not have been Jews that worshiped the calf, but the non Jewish stragglers that left with the Jews from Egypt.

290 soccerdad  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 10:01:57pm

I cannot help but say to the jewish people who vote for BHO, "You fucking idiots! Are you not paying attention?"

291 soccerdad  Mon, Nov 3, 2008 10:03:54pm

re: #286 martinleaf

If Obama wins, he will do everything he can to weaken Israel, leaving Israel to the jackals. That is a good thing. Israel is better off without the kind of support Israel has been getting from the US.

Israel has been getting US military support since Nixon, 1973. And 1967 was the last time Israel truly won a war. In 1973 Golda worried what the world would think of a preemptive strike, so she didn't, and israel was brutally invaded in October 73. Israel must now get permission from America whether or not to launch military action, and what type and how long that action can last. That porcine demon Carter pressured Begin tremendously to relinquish israel's hard fought Sinai gain.

Israel's Lebanon campaign in 82 was thwarted by the US, in the guise of that jew hating, self hating Caspar the friendly ghost.

Remember, Israel is a nuclear power. That power israel doesn't even appreciate it has. So let Hussein Obama bring it on. We Jews can show him a holy war against Israel's enemies in the Mideast, at least the Jews that have that increasingly rare jewish gene for political common sense.

You go Martin. I cannot fault your reasoning. If BHO were to get in (he won't) the whole WORLD becomes a friggin free for all.

292 ashan  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 12:44:23am

re: #277 WrathofG-d

I guess I should be clear. I do not believe necessarily that it will be another Holocaust as happened in Germany.

I do believe however that at some time in the future (possibly slightly under 200 years) things will be horrible here in the U.S. for Jews. When you look at the history of the Jewish people this result is inevitable. If you look at the actual "on the ground" facts of the German Holocaust, starting in the 1800s if not 1920s you will see how similar it is.

Do I want it to happen? NO! But I believe it will. The ease that the Anti-Semites are having in pushing strict antisemitism into our society under the guise (among other ways) of Anti-Zionism, etc., should be enough of a warning. One can also look at the political streams that are taking place in the U.S right now. Since the 1960s one major political party has been going towards Communism, and the other seems to be very slowly crawling towards fascism. Neither system of Government has been good for the Jews.

Jews might not be put into camps as they were in Germany, but one way or another...we're going to asked to leave.


Here's the start of the nightmare scenario.
First of all, it will only be expedited if The O wins. I think that the ball will start rolling when he puts Nation of Islam-style tactics into his internal "military". (I still don't understand why McCain didn't use that horrific idea as O's method to take away or limit our personal freedoms and as a huge government expenditure. Why didn't he even question O on this?) It wouldn't surprise me if O would first break off all military contracts with Israel, India (Kashmir conflict), Columbia, to name a few. Then he'll make sure commercial ties to these countries (which he will probably label "rogue states") are cut and limits will be placed on the ability of their citizens to enter the US. Dual citizenship will be revoked. This will effectively enable a "boycott", as the left wing demands. This will all have the support of a Dem-controlled Congress. Jewish congressmen will be told to "know their place" and shut up. A few fawning buttkisser kapo-types will bow and scape to O's and Congress' wishes. Jewish communities will be ostracized.

As a dual citizen American/Israeli, I am very afraid of some similar scenario where I will be forced to give up one or the other citizenship. I take deep pride in both countries. McCain had better win. The GOP had better hold on to some more seats, too!

293 insane_kufr  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 3:24:23am

I am in the National Guard, and my Brigade is mobilizing for Afghanistan starting in Jan. 09. I took an oath to defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. What do you do when the enemy is your executive branch?
Look for Israel to act against Iran & Syria if BHO is elected. I fear the seeds of Armageddon are being sown.

294 martinleaf  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 5:34:18am

re: #293 insane_kufr

It is simple, you have to hope articles of impeachment are prepared by congress. That is the only remedy for Executive branch gone wild.

295 martinleaf  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 5:44:56am

re: #292 ashan

Logically and rationally, the biggest threat the free world faces is from nuclear terrorism. That is 100% certain, it is only a matter of time. A nuclear bomb or a dirty bomb detonated in a US city would probably cause a depression, in addition to the loss of life and environmental damage.

That is why israel is probably safe from even the US turning against her: The US prefers to appease nuclear powers (ie Pakistan and N. Korea). Of course there is always the possibility of a South Africa scenario, where South Africa allegedly had nukes and was allegedly de-nuked and their government was essentially eliminated.

However, Israel's forced independence will be a good thing, because independence almost always is. Israel thrived militarily prior to any US military aid, and it will do it again.

296 insane_kufr  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 6:05:11am

re: #294 martinleaf

yeah there's a big "but" here. We have to "hope" that a majority liberal democrat congress would vote to "change" the executive through impeachment proceedings.

297 ashan  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 6:22:07am

re: #295 martinleaf
The problem is that Israel has become dependent on US arms deals and joint military development contracts that favor the US. Actually Israel was pressured to go that way in return for all types of support and assurances, such as advanced satellite data, good terms on deals for bunker-busters, F16i fighters, joint research projects and the US early intercept system stationed in the Negev. Abrogating these deals will no doubt put Israel at risk.

Another problem would be BHO's ideology itself (which strongly favors the Arabs) and his array of advisors on the Middle East, who some of the worst shills for the Arabs since Dhimmi Carter (who is one of them). Samantha Power, who will be tapped for a high-level position as pretty nearly called for confronting the Israeli military with US-backed military "protection" for the Arabs (Palestinians, maybe even the Syrians and the Hezballah).

One of the worst things, however, is that BHO will be privy to all military secrets, everywhere. He will play fast and loose with this information with his very anti-America and anti-Israel bedfellows and fellow travelers.

God help us all.

298 sffilk  Tue, Nov 4, 2008 7:05:47am

Maybe this quote from Neal Boortz's column will explain it. I didn't write it - I merely report it:

As a Jewish voter who is a reluctant Obama supporter, I would like to respond to your oft-repeated question as to why Jewish voters would vote for Obama, who is seen as a weaker supporter of Israel. This exact issue is debated hotly amongst many of my Jewish friends. The reality is that while Israel is an important issue to many Jews, it is not the only issue that matters. Like any other group in America, Jews are not just one-issue voters.

As a Jew, I find the fundamentalist Christian segment of the Republican Party a bit frightening. I have historically voted Republican, but the selection of Sarah Palin indicates that the Republican Party wants to move in that direction. Though Obama's views are, in general, too left for my taste, at least I don't have to worry about him making national decisions based on scripture. That is what many theocracies are doing in the Middle East and I have no interest in a theocracy here.


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