Oh Noes! Nirth Certifikit Eated!

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Humor • Sat Nov 8, 2008 at 9:07 am PST • Views: 270
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837 comments

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1 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:08:38am

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This should bring the kooks out of the woodwork.

2 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:08:45am

They have lolruses in Hawaii? Oh, wait, maybe that's not Hawaii!1!1!

/

3 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:09:03am

LMAO!

Sad though- how may conspiracies will this joke give rise to?

4 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:09:13am

oh no. gotta go do something else for a while. say the wrong thing on a nirth certificate thread and you get deleted for bringing up the nirth certificate.

5 Sol Roth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:09:17am

Lolwalrus or Helen Thomas, I can't tell.

6 itellu3times  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:09:32am

That's probably why they really want a dog in the White House.

You watch, they'll have a heard of goats given free reign there, too.

7 lesbianrainforest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:09:54am

Coo-coo-ka-choo

8 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:09:57am

Rosie ate it?

/buuurp!

9 Cap'n DOC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:10:49am

re: #8 Ward Cleaver

That is Rosie!

10 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:11:10am

re: #9 Cap'n DOC

She's lost weight!

11 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:11:46am

re: #10 ArmyWife

She's lost weight!

She looks positively svelte.

12 livefreeor die  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:12:10am

re: #9 Cap'n DOC

That is Rosie!

I thought it was Oprah begging Sarah Palin to be on her show.

13 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:12:56am

Don't worry; Philip J. Berg will go to court, to force her to spit it out.

14 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:13:01am

lol

15 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:14:00am

Oh, boy! I hope I get this in first...

I AM THE WALRUS

KOO KOO KA CHEW!

16 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:14:12am

I must go do laundry and other menial household chores. Have a great day.

17 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:14:30am

re: #7 lesbianrainforest

Coo-coo-ka-choo

DAMN!

18 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:14:36am

I suppose this answers my question from the overnight thread.

19 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:15:15am

Too funny!
Racist!

20 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:15:42am

re: #18 Gang of One

I love the expression on your face today!

21 CapeCoddah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:15:48am

So THATS where it went! There is always an explaination for everything. My daughter worked for 2 weeks on a paper for college which was due this week, and our Mastiff DID eat it. Thank God for Word. It was easily reprinted.

22 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:15:51am

re: #18 Gang of One

I suppose this answers my question from the overnight thread.

Which was...?

23 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:16:29am

ROFLMAO!

24 CapeCoddah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:17:05am

BBL, hubby is dragging me out to buy a sofa. I detest shopping. He loves it.

25 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:18:13am

re: #22 Wishing

I saw a spin off referring to the SCOTUS and Obama's birthcertificate, and was wondering if this was really still an issue. Apparently, it is not.
I am relieved.

26 yah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:18:23am

I thought we weren't supposed to bring that up here. Will Charles have to delete himself? /

27 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:18:50am

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I love the expression on your face today!

I am quite the enigma. But people tell me I look more like my dad.

28 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:19:27am

re: #26 yah

Don't give him ideas. Space time continuum tear and all...

29 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:19:33am

re: #26 yah

I thought we weren't supposed to bring that up here. Will Charles have to delete himself? /

Nope. Charles posted this to mock the people who are still clinging to the meme.

30 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:19:36am
31 SpartanWoman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:19:37am

re: #26 yah

I thought we weren't supposed to bring that up here. Will Charles have to delete himself? /

Not for a Nirth cercificate! I consider this a Mirth certificate to break us out of post election blues

32 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:20:08am

I can't stop laughing!

33 strikefo  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:20:22am

so I'm snooping around change.gov and find this little gem in the "Defense" section:

Expand to Meet Military Needs on the Ground: Barack Obama and Joe Biden support plans to increase the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers and the Marines by 27,000 troops. Increasing our end strength will help units retrain and re-equip properly between deployments and decrease the strain on military families.

Fully Equip Our Troops for the Missions They Face: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must get vitally needed equipment to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines before lives are lost. We cannot repeat such failures as the delays in deployment of armored vehicles, body armor and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that save lives on the frontlines.

National Missile Defense: An Obama-Biden administration will support missile defense, but ensure that it is developed in a way that is pragmatic and cost-effective; and, most importantly, does not divert resources from other national security priorities until we are positive the technology will protect the American public.

Anyone remember this wonderful 51 seconds of disaster?

34 yah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:21:04am

I bet that's not Obama's REAL birth certificate. /

35 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:21:19am

Nirth certfikit wuz in Pams bukkit, but nao bukkit is MT.

36 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:21:26am

re: #25 Gang of One

I saw a spin off referring to the SCOTUS and Obama's birthcertificate, and was wondering if this was really still an issue. Apparently, it is not.
I am relieved.

I think AtlasShrugged may have resurrected it as an issue.

37 Pastorius  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:22:04am

LOL

38 pat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:22:06am

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

39 DistantThunder  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:22:16am

I was talking today to a black special forces guy - and he was talking about ammunition. Another person mentioned the importance of "caching" - and he was completely confused as to why this would be important. He felt certain that Obama wouldn't do anything negative to gun or ammo legislation.

40 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:22:23am

re: #27 Gang of One

I am quite the enigma. But people tell me I look more like my dad.

I played "Lil' Abner" once in the musical, "Hairless Joe" did a whole skit on his different facial expressions. Put me on the floor laughing.

"Hairless Joe" is a great character to play if you are not the prettiest "turd in the punchbowl" (as he so delicately put it).

41 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:22:26am

re: #33 strikefo

so I'm snooping around change.gov and find this little gem in the "Defense" section:


Anyone remember this wonderful 51 seconds of disaster?

he offered change. Change from his campaign promises apparently. let's hope this trend holds.

42 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:22:27am

re: #29 Gang of One
Yep, as I mentioned to you on the Dead Thread about your conern that the birth certificate "issue" was posted in spinoff links, the whole issue is bullshit, although Charles does say that in a more refined way than do I!

43 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:23:30am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

that is specific for the lower back tattoo here in the US.

44 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:23:59am

re: #42 realwest

Nope. I've heard him call it "bullshit" too.

45 yah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:06am

re: #6 itellu3times

That's probably why they really want a dog in the White House.

You watch, they'll have a heard of goats given free reign there, too.

Goats are really really cute. Especially the kids. Adorable. They make great pets. Just got to watch all your stuff real well - otherwise they eat it.

46 Sol Roth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:09am

re: #33 strikefo

so I'm snooping around change.gov and find this little gem in the "Defense" section:


Anyone remember this wonderful 51 seconds of disaster?

Selling out the communist wing that carried him through the primary? Priceless.

47 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:14am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

Around here, we call them "ass antlers". I like that better.

48 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:20am

Why is Nancy Palosi eating his nirth certificate?

49 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:30am

As soon as he throws the wrong reporter under the bus that poor fella's gonna have bad things done to get him to that back...

50 Syrah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:48am

re: #3 Sharmuta

LMAO!

Sad though- how may conspiracies will this joke give rise to?

That looks like a fake Elephant "seal" to me. I think they photoshopped the nose on that thing to fool us!

/

51 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:24:51am

re: #43 spidly

I don't find tatoos attractive on women (men for that matter) at all.

52 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:25:01am

re: #35 jaunte

Nirth certfikit wuz in Pams bukkit, but nao bukkit is MT.

*snicker*

53 So?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:25:05am

I think a walrus in the White House would look so much better, especially at press conferences.

54 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:25:45am

re: #33 strikefo

Anyone remember this wonderful 51 seconds of disaster?

Heh, now he gets to drink deep from the firehose of harsh reality. Do you think he'll learn wisdom quickly enough? I can't wait for him to roll over on these promises and the Kossack bought/sellout conspiracy theories to start.

/Rove you magnificent bastard!

55 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:26:17am

re: #42 realwest

Yep, as I mentioned to you on the Dead Thread about your conern that the birth certificate "issue" was posted in spinoff links, the whole issue is bullshit, although Charles does say that in a more refined way than do I!

I saw. It never ceases to amaze me that people of usually good character or moral compass can sometimes get sucked into a conspiracy. I suppose the need to believe is more powerful than the truth. Kinda sad, neh?

56 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:26:17am

re: #6 itellu3times

You watch, they'll have a heard of goats given free reign there, too.

You probably just started a "Mairzy Doats" thread.

I believe it has replaced the "Boob" thread.

57 DistantThunder  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:26:47am

I'd like to see a pisture of Pelosi Obamas Reid and the rest of the ruffians dressed as

Servants of the People

They have forgotten that all they do is manage - they create no wealth

They are Servants...they should at least be forced to wear shirts with their names embroidered on them.

58 Anna  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:26:57am

Bwahahaha, thanks Charles. I needed a laugh.

As a recovering birth certificate junkie, I needed this dose of humour. And now for something completely different - the Obama News Chorus of Diminished Promises starring Chris 'tingle' Matthews.

59 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:27:01am

Do little lambs really eat ivy?

60 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:27:16am

re: #46 Sol Roth

Selling out the communist wing that carried him through the primary? Priceless.

Absolutely... and if anyone's really going to be a credible threat to him now that he's elected it's them... unless of course the turnarounds are only cover to take the heat off until he's inaugurated... Hopefully this moron will surround himself with good advisers... not counting on it though... if I had to bet I'd bet against it... but then I thought McCain would win...

61 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:27:31am

re: #50 Syrah

I agree- it's a fake seal!

62 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:27:39am

re: #54 esch

... the firehose of harsh reality ...

I am so stealing that!

63 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:27:44am

re: #52 Sharmuta

Some very talented someone in the Obama campaign has been tossing out the red herrings to diffuse opposition focus. I bet they're still snickering too.

64 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:27:56am

re: #59 rawmuse

Do little lambs really eat ivy?

They do. I kid you not.

65 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:28:35am

re: #60 anotherindyfilmguy

Absolutely... and if anyone's really going to be a credible threat to him now that he's elected it's them... unless of course the turnarounds are only cover to take the heat off until he's inaugurated... Hopefully this moron will surround himself with good advisers... not counting on it though... if I had to bet I'd bet against it... but then I thought McCain would win...

Rahm Emmanuel and Henry Rivera so far.

66 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:28:37am

re: #62 Gang of One

*bows*

Be my guest. Spread the memes far and wide.

67 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:28:51am

re: #59 rawmuse

Do little lambs really eat ivy?

Those words sound queer. Kinda funny.

68 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:29:01am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

I always thought a "Tramp Stamp" was a tatoo very low on the back that just barely sticks out from the top of the underwear.

69 Gang of One  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:29:09am

re: #61 Sharmuta

I agree- it's a fake seal!

Like that Presidential Seal® Obama had over the summer?

70 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:29:26am

re: #63 jaunte

It's sad to see people bitterly clinging to false hope in bullshit.

71 Sol Roth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:29:39am

re: #60 anotherindyfilmguy

Absolutely... and if anyone's really going to be a credible threat to him now that he's elected it's them... unless of course the turnarounds are only cover to take the heat off until he's inaugurated... Hopefully this moron will surround himself with good advisers... not counting on it though... if I had to bet I'd bet against it... but then I thought McCain would win...

Which direction; hard-Left or center-Left? We're all holding our breath.

And buying ammo.

72 So?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:29:54am

THIS IS REAL OT, but interesting. Listen to podcast.
I was wondering if anyone could answer my question.

[Link: www.blogtalkradio.com...]

It features a very interesting podcast interview on web transparency.
According to the author, 40% of all computers worldwide are infected by spambots that hook up tens of thousands of computers to send out spam
and search for people who do online banking & stocks.

My question is this: If computers are being hijacked without the owners knowledge doen't the computer's IP address get hijacked too? Then why can't a program be created that tracks these IPs back to their source and have these crooks arrested?

Also, might another program be created that would automatically alerts the owner of a hijacked computer.

Isn't there anyone out there smart enough to compete with the hackers creating these insidious viruses, worms, etc.

Anybody?

73 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:30:14am

re: #68 fish

"Why don't they just tatoo a bulls-eye there."
-The Wedding Crashers

74 jcbunga  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:30:18am

re: #7 lesbianrainforest

Coo-coo-ka-choo

omg I know what this means :)

75 uncle_monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:30:50am

I think Phillip J. Berg needs to Subpoena that seal!

76 DistantThunder  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:30:58am

The average person has few defenses against an experienced con-man. Obama, like clinton deal in deception.

I could probably go to Children's Hospital and Philly, find some poor mom and dad - and convincingly talk them into some herbal cure.

Con men can lie without the usual signs of stress and deception. They know how to psychologically disarm the average defenseless person.

77 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:31:13am

re: #72 So?

Thanks for the reminder. Running Adaware.

78 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:31:16am

re: #75 uncle_monkey

I think Phillip J. Berg needs to Subpoena that seal!

He's probably already working on it.

79 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:31:53am

re: #72 So?

Because most of the hackers responsible for creating these botnets reside in other countries. Belgium, China, etc. They don't particularly care about it.

80 VegasRick  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:32:44am

re: #64 MandyManners

They do. I kid you not.

You kidd us not!
That's not baaad.

81 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:33:17am

I took some nanners and apples from the lobby. Not hungry now, but, am probably close to arrest.

82 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:33:26am

re: #51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't find tatoos attractive on women (men for that matter) at all.

can't like them on women. I don't have a problem with them on men if they are not the stupid barb wire/celtic knot/moari cuffs and such, and not over the top everywhere.

I have one on the shoulder. thought about getting a couple more. maybe this!.

never seen this Reagan pic before.

83 DistantThunder  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:33:27am

The
O-pposition.

84 yah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:33:49am

re: #72 So?

I am too dumb about computers to answere any of your questions, but I would NEVER do my banking on my pc. I have a special bank account I keep about $200. in to use for buying things on the web. If someone gets ahold of that acccount info they can only steal so much.

85 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:34:52am

re: #75 uncle_monkey

I think Phillip J. Berg needs to Subpoena that faux seal!

86 uncle_monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:02am

re: #78 Sharmuta

He's probably already working on it.

I'm wondering if this is part of a "vast" pinniped conspiracy. This could explain what happened to the Michelle "whitey" tape.

87 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:16am

re: #84 yah

I am too dumb about computers to answere any of your questions, but I would NEVER do my banking on my pc. I have a special bank account I keep about $200. in to use for buying things on the web. If someone gets ahold of that acccount info they can only steal so much.

great idea

88 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:17am

re: #57 DistantThunder

I'd like to see a pisture of Pelosi Obamas Reid and the rest of the ruffians dressed as

Servants of the People

They have forgotten that all they do is manage - they create no wealth

They are Servants...they should at least be forced to wear shirts with their names embroidered on them.

Best.Idea.Ever.

(just dont put Pelosi in a French Maid outfit, I enjoy digesting food that I eat)

89 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:31am

I have fresh pressed Hood River apple cider, and you don't.

90 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:44am

look, I just wanna know what hospital he was born at
so I know where the Obamerican version of Mecca is going to be

is that too much to ask ?


signed, Adrenalyn
"be the opposition, not the oppressed"
"Question Othority"

91 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:59am

re: #80 VegasRick

You kidd us not!
That's not baaad.

The authority speaks.

Thanks, NY Nana!

92 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:36:18am

Best. Lolmanatee. Ever.

93 uncle_monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:36:22am

re: #85 debutaunt

I think Phillip J. Berg needs to Subpoena that faux seal!

So, what's the difference between a faux seal, and a faux fur seal?

94 Gearhead  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:36:27am

That's a really flattering photo of Rev. Wright.

95 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:36:47am

re: #88 fish

(just dont put Pelosi in a French Maid outfit, I enjoy digesting food that I eat)

Hey, some people go for that.

/Not me! No really! I better shut up now...

96 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:36:55am

re: #90 Adrenalyn

"Question Othority"

I love it!

97 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:36:59am

re: #90 Adrenalyn

WHOA!

I am stealing that 'Question Othority'...good one.

98 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:37:18am

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Why don't they just tatoo a bulls-eye there."
-The Wedding Crashers

Actual quote was...

"Tattoo on the lower back? Might as well be a bulls-eye."

99 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:37:21am

re: #93 uncle_monkey

So, what's the difference between a faux seal, and a faux fur seal?

The faux seal speaks in broken Lol

100 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:37:33am

re: #94 Gearhead

That's a really flattering photo of Rev. Wright.

What's going on Charles? I have a photo of Michelle Obama attached to this thread.

101 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:39:10am

re: #82 spidly

can't like them on women. I don't have a problem with them on men if they are not the stupid barb wire/celtic knot/moari cuffs and such, and not over the top everywhere.

I have one on the shoulder. thought about getting a couple more. maybe this!.

never seen this Reagan pic before.

You guys are old fashioned. In the right place they are very attractive. To quote Wedding Crashers (and to correct the person above) "Tattoo on the lower back? Might as well be a bullseye".

102 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:39:15am

Did I break the thread?

103 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:39:15am

re: #91 MandyManners

The authority speaks.

Thanks, NY Nana!

That's supposed to be "Mares Eat Oats", not 'Mairzy Doats'

lol!

104 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:39:37am

Northern Liberalia Lizards

there is a convoy escorting a group of Marines returning from the surrender project (formerly known as the war on terror)
in Stockton and are going to be escorted in a convoy back to Alameda tomorrow morning
assuming you like to ride in the rain...

definition alert; Liberalia=former California

105 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:39:46am

re: #86 uncle_monkey

I'm wondering if this is part of a "vast" pinniped conspiracy. This could explain what happened to the Michelle "whitey" tape.

Now there's a thought!

106 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:40:00am

re: #82 spidly

Reagan could give a stern effing look when he wanted to.

Ever see the SNL skit, Reagan with the baseball bat, take off on Capone in "The Untouchables"?

107 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:40:02am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

Its used here as well, and has been for several years. Some time back we joked that girls get their name put into the tat so the guys know what to call them during sex. Therefore they should refrain from getting religous ones.

108 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:40:10am

re: #103 rightymouse

That's supposed to be "Mares Eat Oats", not 'Mairzy Doats'

lol!

Talk to the lamb!

109 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:40:34am

re: #97 Oh no...Sand People!

I am stealing that 'Question Othority'...good one.

I can hear him saying it. "Do not um, question my ah, Othoritay!"

110 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:40:38am

re: #97 Oh no...Sand People!

WHOA!

I am stealing that 'Question Othority'...good one.

yes, thank you, I think it is astonishly good
(hint Rush, I am a good guest)
I know myself out sometimes
I need to channel my frustrations/setbacks somehow

111 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:41:13am

re: #96 MandyManners

"Question Othority"

I love it!


Hey Mandy !
(said in a Gomer Pyle voice)

112 yesandno  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:41:19am

re: #58 Anna

Bwahahaha, thanks Charles. I needed a laugh.

As a recovering birth certificate junkie, I needed this dose of humour. And now for something completely different - the Obama News Chorus of Diminished Promises starring Chris 'tingle' Matthews.

Guess Christmas came early for Chris Tingle

113 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:41:29am

re: #108 MandyManners

Talk to the lamb!

Eh, they eat Ivy.

/that sounded wrong.

114 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:41:57am

re: #101 logboy

See my correction on 98.

115 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:43:09am

Hamster duty! bbiab

116 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:43:12am

re: #114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See my correction on 98.

I know, you beat me to it.

117 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:43:53am

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

What's going on Charles? I have a photo of Michelle Obama attached to this thread.

DOH!

118 Dustyvet  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:43:55am

re: #4 spidly

oh no. gotta go do something else for a while. say the wrong thing on a nirth certificate thread and you get deleted for bringing up the nirth certificate.

I'm busy reading all the Middle Nirth books...

119 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:44:01am

re: #116 logboy

I hate it when I do that. When I quote a movie, I should look up the line on IMDB to make sure I get it right.

120 Crusty  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:44:22am

re: #94 Gearhead

That's a really flattering photo of Rev. Wright.

I think this was taken during his infamous "penguins walk differently" sermon.

121 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:44:43am

re: #115 MandyManners

Hamster duty! bbiab

Blimey - poor Mandy - now she's gotta run in these wheels here, who knew!

122 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:45:24am

re: #120 Crusty

I think this was taken during his infamous "penguins walk differently" sermon.

hahahahahhahahaha

123 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:45:58am

re: #57 DistantThunder

I think you're onto something. Blue golf shirts with the seal of their chamber, and name embroidered below it.

"Welcome to Congress. I'm Nancy, how may I help you?"

124 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:46:05am

re: #120 Crusty

I think this was taken during his infamous "penguins walk differently" sermon.

**snort**

125 Dustyvet  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:46:12am

re: #120 Crusty

I think this was taken during his infamous "penguins walk differently" sermon.

Image: brave.jpg

126 allan5oh  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:47:03am

I can haz black presedent?

127 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:48:27am

I think I know what the "Nirth Certifikit" is that 0bama wants to hide: the expiration date!

128 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:49:05am

re: #35 jaunte

Nirth certfikit wuz in Pams bukkit, but nao bukkit is MT.

Why u stick ur hand in Pams bukkit?

129 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:49:58am

re: #128 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Wuz meta4!

130 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:50:15am

re: #54 esch

drink deep from the firehose of harsh reality

Rotating title nomination!

131 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:50:42am

re: #106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reagan could give a stern effing look when he wanted to.

Ever see the SNL skit, Reagan with the baseball bat, take off on Capone in "The Untouchables"?

No, but The Killers was a great movie

132 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:50:47am

re: #127 gmsc

How did you open a thread with upside down letters? That was CRAZY!

133 Dasher  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:50:56am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

We call them that too.

134 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:52:05am

re: #97 Oh no...Sand People!

WHOA!

I am stealing that 'Question Othority'...good one.

Need bumper stickers.

135 Dustyvet  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:53:00am

re: #3 Sharmuta

LMAO!

Sad though- how may conspiracies will this joke give rise to?

Image: 222cat.jpg

136 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:53:46am
137 jorline  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:53:48am

Does this new administration come with a four year pass to the Fountain Of Youth as well?

138 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:54:27am

re: #137 jorline

Fountain of Youth? No way. Fountain of 'Troof'? Absolutely.

139 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:54:38am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

"Tramp stamps" actually refer to a particular type of tattoo on women. They're those tattoos that are just above the rear, so they can be seen just above the top of the pants.

Both Brits and Americans use this term.

140 Macker  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:55:16am

re: #88 fish

Best.Idea.Ever.

(just dont put Pelosi in a French Maid outfit, I enjoy digesting food that I eat)

Or, worse yet, a party dress.

/EEEWWW!

141 jorline  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:55:18am

re: #138 Oh no...Sand People!

Fountain of Youth? No way. Fountain of 'Troof'? Absolutely.

More Damn troofers...crap!

142 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:56:44am

ROFLMAO!

It is teh funnyz!

144 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:59:31am
145 So?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:00:36am

re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks for the reminder. Running Adaware.

If you listen to the podcast, it's an interview with the author of a new book. He said it was virtually impossible to get rid of these spambots unless you wiped your hardrive clean. Even then, it installs itself and hides. The other problem is that these programs are now attacking browsers, so any site you go on may be infected. There is no way of knowing.

146 So?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:01:58am

re: #84 yah

I am too dumb about computers to answere any of your questions, but I would NEVER do my banking on my pc. I have a special bank account I keep about $200. in to use for buying things on the web. If someone gets ahold of that acccount info they can only steal so much.

In the podcast, he said buy a cheap computer that's dedicated only to doing banking. He said don't use it to surf the net or send emails.

147 GGMac  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:03:04am

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those words sound queer. Kinda funny.

148 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:03:05am

Ever wonder what the whack jobs would do when they can no longer blame Bush for everything? Well, we're about to find out. They're going to blame Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of "palling around with terrorists", citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.

Michelle Obama, the future First Lady, was so upset that she turned to her friend and campaign adviser Valerie Jarrett and said: "Why would they try to make people hate us?"

The revelations, contained in a Newsweek history of the campaign, are likely to further damage Mrs Palin's credentials as a future presidential candidate.

149 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:03:44am

re: #143 arethusa

OT: Coleman's lead is down to 221 votes in MN - thanks almost entirely to a small town in the Iron Range, an area dominated by Democrats.

The new liberal method, recount until you win. They didn't have it perfected in 2000, slightly wonky in 2004, only worked in traditional bastions where they can control the counters.

150 Crusty  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:04:00am

re: #106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reagan could give a stern effing look when he wanted to.

How about Reagan's "microphone" incident during the NH primary? Reagan gave that moderator a look like he was ready to crack his skull.

Reagan's Nashua Moment

Back in a time when US Presidents were Men.

151 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:05:34am

Not the skit I mentioned earlier, but funny as hell!

Phil Hartman was the best SNL cast member of all time.

Don't even try to argue!

152 GGMac  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:05:53am

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Those words sound queer. Kinda funny.


Trying again, as my #147 didn't register correctly -

As one who remembers hearing the song on the radio, I am in awe of your magnificently subtle play on words. I raise my glass to you!

153 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:06:10am
154 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:06:25am

re: #152 GGMac

Well, they are kinda jumbled up.

Jivy even.

155 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:07:34am

re: #144 spidly

Tramp Stamp remover

Laughed myself silly.

156 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:07:55am

re: #148 wahabicorridor

I said this before, bears repeating: Obama's biggest threat was Sarah Palin. The best way to become president for life is to defeat her NOW.
This is what is going on.
Make her unelectable.

157 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:07:57am

re: #148 wahabicorridor

From the link:

Michelle Obama, the future First Lady, was so upset that she turned to her friend and campaign adviser Valerie Jarrett and said: "Why would they try to make people hate us?"

Why do you hate America?

158 arethusa  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:08:10am

re: #148 wahabicorridor

From your link: "The revelations, contained in a Newsweek history of the campaign, are likely to further damage Mrs Palin's credentials as a future presidential candidate."

Don't they just wish that were true?

159 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:08:54am

re: #134 spidly

Need bumper stickers.

they will be ready VERY SOON
if only I could turn my nic blue and get emails

160 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:09:04am

re: #146 So?

In the podcast, he said buy a cheap computer that's dedicated only to doing banking. He said don't use it to surf the net or send emails.

Run a decent firewall, keep your antivirus up to date, do a daily scan for spy/adware and you shouldnt have anything to worry about. And most importantly, DON'T BE STUPID. I think its when someone gets an email with a .exe file with the title "super funny joke!" that they open it and get in trouble. I remember the good old days when you got a worm or executable and could forward it to all the people that were sending you spam.

161 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:09:47am

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Phil Hartman was the best SNL cast member of all time.

Don't even try to argue!

Too true. I always thought it was sad that they hit that patch with performers who weren't funny because they tried too hard: Will Ferrell, Chris Farley, Adam Sandler, Jimmy Fallon, and so on.

162 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:10:04am

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not the skit I mentioned earlier, but funny as hell!

Phil Hartman was the best SNL cast member of all time.

Don't even try to argue!

Wasn't there a version of that one in which Pres. Reagan spoke Farsi and Arabic and ran circles around his aides?

163 leboaz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:10:54am

This just in!
Cindy Sheehan picked for Secy. of Defense

/

164 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:11:02am

re: #159 Adrenalyn

they will be ready VERY SOON
if only I could turn my nic blue and get emails

Type your addy into the Email box and then click the Show email box next to it.

165 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:11:19am

re: #162 MandyManners

Wasn't there a version of that one in which Pres. Reagan spoke Farsi and Arabic and ran circles around his aides?

Yeah. Here it is...

The whole thang...

166 NoSpam  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:12:10am

That is way funnier than it should be. I think it's the look on the elephant seal's face.

167 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:12:12am

re: #151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not the skit I mentioned earlier, but funny as hell!

Phil Hartman was the best SNL cast member of all time.

Don't even try to argue!

I miss Phil.

168 GGMac  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:12:14am

re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, they are kinda jumbled up.

Jivy even.

*SMILING*

And singing along :)

169 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:12:17am

I'm looking for the original Newsweek article now...

170 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:12:51am

re: #130 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Thanks bud.

171 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:13:07am

re: #167 Sharmuta

I miss Phil.

Oh, me too. Son of a gun could have played Obama even. Was just an amazing talent.

172 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:13:26am

re: #143 arethusa
Methinks that the Democrat secretary of State in Minn. is into this attempt to deprive Norm Coleman of his victory.
In fact, iirc, Coleman has already filed a lawsuit over this before the re-count has even been finished.
What the Dems's can't win, they'll buy or steal.
Count on it.

173 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:14:08am

re: #158 arethusa

From your link: "The revelations, contained in a Newsweek history of the campaign, are likely to further damage Mrs Palin's credentials as a future presidential candidate."

That little bit of editorializing reminded me of this comment on "Post-Journalism" from Victor Davis Hanson:

"In the 3rd book of his history, Thucydides has some insightful thoughts about destroying institutions in times of zealotry—and then regretting their absence when there is a need for refuge for them. The mainstream press should have learned that lesson, once they blew up their credibility in the past election by morphing into the Team Obama press agency.
There will come a time in the year ahead when either Obama's unexamined past will come back to haunt him, or his inexperience and tentativeness in foreign affairs will be embarrassingly apparent, or his European-socialist agenda for domestic programs simply won't work. And as public opinion falls, what will MSNBC, the New York Times, the editors of Newsweek, a Chris Matthews or the anchors at the major networks say?
Not much—since they will have one of two non-choices: (1) either they will begin scrambling to offer supposed disinterested criticism, which will be met with the public's, "Why should we begin believing you now?" or "Why didn't you tell this before?", or (2), They can continue as state-sanctioned megaphones of the Obama administration in the manner that they did during the campaign. They will lose either way and remain without credibility."

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

174 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:15:13am

We should have more reporters like this. At least he was honest.

175 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:15:26am

re: #172 realwest

Count on it.

*PUN-WHACK*

176 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:16:36am

Well all y'all it's been grand, but I gotta go now.
I hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

177 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:17:40am

Nope, don't see it...

178 Bubblehead II  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:17:57am

Bali Bombers Executed

Burn in hell you bastards

179 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:18:15am

re: #127 gmsc

I think I know what the "Nirth Certifikit" is that 0bama wants to hide: the expiration date!

You mean... he's a replicant? Has anyone told Harrison Ford? :D

180 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:19:24am

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Bali Bombers Executed

Burn in hell you bastards

Darn. No video.

181 GGMac  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:19:54am

OT

Anyone else as amused as I over Obama's podium sign (news conference yesterday)?

The OFFICE of the President Elect


That ego knows no bounds

And was that his UN-blue presidential seal atop the sign?

182 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:20:17am

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Bali Bombers Executed

Burn in hell you bastards

I'm sure they're shocked they're not in paradise.

183 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:21:05am

re: #173 jaunte

Ya think? floppingaces has the 'too little too late' BS from WaPo

When Gov. Sarah Palin was nominated for vice president, reporters were booking the next flight to Alaska. Some readers thought The Post went over Palin with a fine-tooth comb and neglected Biden. They are right; it was a serious omission.

184 ClosetConservative  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:21:26am

Folks:

I know a lot of people have been complaining that Obama has flip-flopped on a bunch of issues, but, to be honest, I think that's a good thing for our country. My only concern is that when he moderates his policies and brings them closer to the right, he'll actually do really well and people will assume that the positions he took during his campaign worked.

Which they didn't and wouldn't. But if he does well, then more power to him!

185 RoughRider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:21:45am

re: #172 realwest

Methinks that the Democrat secretary of State in Minn. is into this attempt to deprive Norm Coleman of his victory.

Shades of Washington '04 where the Republican wins, then Dems keep recounting and "finding" "misplaced ballots" until the Democrat pulls into the lead, at which point the courts immediately declare the winner and order a stop to all further recounts.

186 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:22:57am

re: #181 GGMac

That ego knows no bounds

Unfortunately he's nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is. I know plenty of modestly gifted people with the same kind of unjustified arrogance. Intelligence and wisdom are two VERY different things.

The world, especially the U.S. is about to get a historic lesson in hubris.

187 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:23:31am

Time to worky!

188 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:24:26am
As far as I'm concerned, this is yet another attack on the young by the political class. Obama's clearly a brilliant man, but how can he be so stupid when it comes to national service? You can't teach American kids civics by forcing them to do community service work. We're stubborn, in fact, that's our singular national virtue. For a guy who spends so much time decrying cynicism, he sure seems to be pushing a program that will make the next generation even more cynical than me and my millennial buddies, and we're a tough act to follow. Call me a skeptic, but this "Ve haf vays of making you serve" program just doesn't seem like the kind of thing that encourages civic-mindedness. In general, coercion doesn't tend to produce good results.

Read the whole thing.

189 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:24:27am

oops. not yet.

190 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:24:38am

re: #184 ClosetConservative

It's starting to look like Hope and Change ain't gonna happen. He's surrounding himself with Clinton's old lackeys, lawyers, lobbyists and Beltway insiders.

191 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:25:54am

re: #190 Killgore Trout

I just hope he finds people who know wtf they are doing.

Going to be supportive.

192 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:25:55am

re: #188 logboy

Read the whole thing.

ROFLMAO

I need to stock up on treats and Whiskey to watch this show. Delicious.

193 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:26:36am

re: #184 ClosetConservative

Folks:

I know a lot of people have been complaining that Obama has flip-flopped on a bunch of issues, but, to be honest, I think that's a good thing for our country. My only concern is that when he moderates his policies and brings them closer to the right, he'll actually do really well and people will assume that the positions he took during his campaign worked.

Which they didn't and wouldn't. But if he does well, then more power to him!

You don't get it. Its the "change" everyone has been talking about. Don't like our foreign policies? Wait till tomorrow. Don't like his economic plan? Wait till tomorrow.

194 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:27:12am

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THANG? Yikes!

195 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:27:28am

not that anyone care...Ireland thumping Canada in the rugby 38-0
with 1/2 an hour to go

196 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:27:36am

re: #190 Killgore Trout

It's starting to look like Hope and Change ain't gonna happen. He's surrounding himself with Clinton's old lackeys, lawyers, lobbyists and Beltway insiders.

Oh, there's still Hope and Change... the trouble is, Hope will be dashed, and... it's not gonna be the kind of Change they were expecting... :-%P%

197 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:28:07am

re: #193 logboy

You don't get it. Its the "change" everyone has been talking about. Don't like our foreign policies? Wait till tomorrow. Don't like his economic plan? Wait till tomorrow.

inda like the weather(men)

198 Racer X  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:28:26am

re: #190 Killgore Trout

It's starting to look like Hope and Change ain't gonna happen.


Shocka!

199 zygazint  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:30:47am

re: #155 MandyManners

Laughed myself silly.

heh...G-d Bless this blog...not having a great year...getting better and better...however.

200 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:31:05am

re: #193 logboy

You don't get it. Its the "change" everyone has been talking about. Don't like our foreign policies? Wait till tomorrow. Don't like his economic plan? Wait till tomorrow.

I can has waffle?

201 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:31:46am

re: #163 leboaz

This just in!
Cindy Sheehan picked for Secy. of Defense

/


And Jesse Jackson for Secretary of the Treasury

202 poopeedoo  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:00am

re: #38 pat

Just read that the Brits call tattoos on females 'tramp stamps'. Now that is interesting.

I've heard the "tramp stamp" is the enlongated tattoo on the lower back of a female.

*blech*

203 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:10am

FWIW...Met someone the other night who worked in DC for years (Senate staffer to Zell Miller and others). She has a bunch of friends still workin' in the Senate offices (she's retired), they are very fond of Barack Obama.

Both sides. Who'da thunk it?

204 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:11am

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Bali Bombers Executed

Burn in hell you bastards

They should have used pellet guns, or at least .22 shorts. Start at the feet and work their way up. Check after every volly, and bandaide the bullet holes to prevent blood loss. PLus have an hour break between shots so that the shooters don't get worn out by it.

205 ClosetConservative  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:29am

I only hope that Obama can take his NatSec briefings and see them through the eyes' of a realist, not the leftie ideologue he has demonstrated himself to be during the campaign.

206 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:37am

re: #162 MandyManners

Wasn't there a version of that one in which Pres. Reagan spoke Farsi and Arabic and ran circles around his aides?

Funny thing is, they could have done the same sort of skit about W, considering how there are folks out there who think he was both an evil genius who knew about 9-11 in advance and lied us into war, while at the same time being a bumbling idiot smirking chimp fratboy.

207 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:42am

re: #201 shanec99

And Jesse Jackson for Secretary of the Treasury

Ted Kennedy as Secretary of Transportation

208 David Baker  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:32:44am

Another Shakespearean protest?

A 10-year-old recently reminded me of a lesson from Harry Potter, wherein a boy is awarded 10 points for opposing not just the forces of darkness, but the force of his friends.

Thus I post here in a schoolyard of jokesters on the oft chance there's at least one non-Marxist among you.

209 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:33:27am

re: #193 logboy

You don't get it. Its the "change" everyone has been talking about. Don't like our foreign policies? Wait till tomorrow. Don't like his economic plan? Wait till tomorrow.

I'm still trying to decide which way this guy is really going to go - will he just wander aimlessly around in terms of policy trying to make the most happy or is he biding his time until he gets into power and will exert executive privilege to an extent far beyond Bush 43 (which had the Dems having fits) in order to implement his community organizing change by fiat if not by Congressional rubber stamp.

I do think, just as in 1992-3, the 'middle class tax cut' will go by the wayside as 'conditions have changed'. Hell, here in CA, Ahnold has pulled the same stunt - now announcing that CA's budget problems are not from overspending and overcommitments for the revenues, but from a revenue shortage and calling for a 1.5% increase in the state sales tax to 'make up the difference'. (Interesting note - almost every massive spending proposition passed - including LA County's Measure R (subject to recount). If Measure R passes and Ahnold get's his tax hike, sales tax in LA County grows from 8.25% to 10.25%. That should help the economy. /sarc)

210 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:33:34am

re: #191 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just hope he finds people who know wtf they are doing.

Going to be supportive.

His (Obama's) 1st step isn't encouraging. Rahm Emanuel isn't exaclty a "bipartisan", reach across the aisle, compromise kinda guy

211 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:33:59am

re: #195 mahatma coat

not that anyone care...Ireland thumping Canada in the rugby 38-0
with 1/2 an hour to go

Why would anyone care?

212 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:34:17am

re: #195 mahatma coat

Unless the game is played on ice -Canada will be relatively hopeless...

213 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:34:19am

re: #207 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Ted Kennedy as Secretary of Transportation


and Dr Kervorkian as Sec of Health and Human Services.

214 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:34:22am

re: #207 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Ted Kennedy as Secretary of Transportation

No Ted Kennedy will be Sec. of the Cabinet..urh .. the Liquor Cabinet!

215 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:34:24am

re: #7 lesbianrainforest

Coo-coo-ka-choo

I am the egg man.

216 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:34:26am

re: #204 JeremyR

I liked the push them off of a 12 foot wall. March them back up, push them off again (maybe they sprain an ankle), march them back up, (maybe crack a wrist), march them back up...and so on. They'll die eventually.

That too harsh?

217 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:35:31am

re: #204 JeremyR

that sounds far too quick pulp fiction comes too mind..."I'm gonna get medieval on his ass!" They 'll feel right at home with the medieval part

218 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:35:34am

re: #214 Nevergiveup

No Ted Kennedy will be Sec. of the Cabinet..urh .. the Liquor Cabinet!

Bet no one can find a better Sec of Veteran Affairs than John Kerry

219 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:35:38am

I think he'll go with Raines for HUD.

220 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:35:47am

re: #213 shanec99

and Dr Kervorkian as Sec of Health and Human Services.

Isn't Kervorkian Dead? But then I guess all them dead people who voted in Chicago deserve representation also?

221 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:36:03am

re: #219 Sharmuta

I think he'll go with Raines for HUD.

Claude Raines? Thought he was dead.

222 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:36:50am

re: #218 shanec99

Bet no one can find a better Sec of Veteran Affairs than John Kerry

I don't know. John "Convict the Soldiers without a trial" Murtha might give him a run for his money?

223 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:37:04am

re: #220 Nevergiveup

Isn't Kervorkian Dead? But then I guess all them dead people who voted in Chicago deserve representation also?

He may be but he sure will nominate John Murtha as Sec for Homeland Security.

224 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:37:10am

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Claude Raines? Thought he was dead.

That would be a much safer pick for us than the former Fannie Mae Chairman...

225 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:37:13am

re: #205 ClosetConservative

I only hope that Obama can take his NatSec briefings and see them through the eyes' of a realist, not the leftie ideologue he has demonstrated himself to be during the campaign.

That is another reason gun and ammo sales are booming. Obama has no loyalty to America. He cut his political teeth on America haters. That will not change now that he is in office. We may very well be subjected to the UN as never before.

226 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:37:31am

re: #195 mahatma coat

not that anyone care...Ireland thumping Canada in the rugby 38-0
with 1/2 an hour to go

Well done the Oirish!

(We got beaten by the World Champions earlier today, in a cracking game, 15 : 20)

227 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:38:06am
228 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:38:14am

re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I liked the push them off of a 12 foot wall. March them back up, push them off again (maybe they sprain an ankle), march them back up, (maybe crack a wrist), march them back up...and so on. They'll die eventually.

That too harsh?

No, not tooo harsh.

229 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:38:33am

re: #222 Nevergiveup

I don't know. John "Convict the Soldiers without a trial" Murtha might give him a run for his money?

There is no doubt in my mind that Rev Al Sharpton will be the next Attorney General.

230 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:38:51am

re: #7 lesbianrainforest

Coo-coo-ka-choo

I'm getting a very nice mental image from the name "lesbianrainforest." It involves leggy, tanned Amazonian women and ...

231 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:39:25am

re: #222 Nevergiveup

I don't know. John "Convict the Soldiers without a trial" Murtha might give him a run for his money?

He's in the slithering for secdef.
Or maybe its the new secretary of peace position.

232 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:39:55am

re: #226 yma o hyd

the commentators are calling it "a comedy of errors "with a "hopelessly outclassed opposition"

233 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:40:16am

re: #229 shanec99

There is no doubt in my mind that Rev Al Sharpton will be the next Attorney General.

I'm thinking he'll pick Ron Kuby.

234 strikefo  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:40:40am

It seems to be the general feeling here, or at least, the hope of most, that we are hoping that Obama will be a centrist. That now that he's elected, he will govern as more to the right.

I find this completely odd and out of sync with what he have been discussing during the entire election cycle. The fact that he is a socialist, completely left-leaning liberal for 2 years and suddenly when he seizes all the power in the land, he will magically be a centrist is foolish and wishful thinking.

He will govern just as he campaigned. He will govern as Jimmy Carter, part 2.

This is inevitable. Stop wishing he'll suddenly be conservative. He's not going to.

235 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:40:41am

re: #200 Who Watches the Watchmen?

I can has waffle?


Only with maple syrup.

236 David Baker  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:40:55am

In his first news conference as president elect, Obama couldn't come
up with anything better than insulting an old white woman - which
was the only "problem" that brought a smile to his otherwise way-down-
in-the-mouth face.

He looked like a yard dog who had been beaten down by his masters -
in a signal to the world that he's going to be very easy pickings.

What an inspiration.

237 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:40:59am

re: #230 Tigger2005

I'm thinking more Andrea Dworkin

238 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:42:05am

re: #227 ploome hineni

OT, from the COrner

I have become incredibly disappointed in Senator McCain in light of his complete silence surrounding the trashing of his running mate. He has lost a great deal of my respect, and will lose all of it if he doesn't jump in with a public statement within the next few days.

239 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:42:08am

EPA head... now Ole Al (I invented the internet) Gore is unavailable ... he is busy making movies... so I suppose Susan Serandon may have to do.

240 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:42:22am

re: #232 mahatma coat

the commentators are calling it "a comedy of errors "with a "hopelessly outclassed opposition"

Well - if the Irish are doing so well, I wonder what our lads are going to do to them next week.
Our coach, Warren Gatland, was furious after the match ... there'll be harsh words and harsher training this coming week, thats for sure!

241 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:42:28am

re: #229 shanec99

There is no doubt in my mind that Rev Al Sharpton will be the next Attorney General.

Phreaky Phreddy from Topfreaka Kansas. He is a disbarred liar err lawyer.

242 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:42:48am

re: #233 Who Watches the Watchmen?

I'm thinking he'll pick Ron Kuby.

Ya know if you listen to Kuby enough, he is not really such a bad sort. I know his mommie was a commie and all, but he is almost rational compared to guys like Barney Frank and Pelosi.

243 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:43:11am

re: #239 shanec99

EPA head... now Ole Al (I invented the internet) Gore is unavailable ... he is busy making movies... so I suppose Susan Serandon may have to do.

I heart it was Robert Kennedy Jr. looking for that post.

244 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:43:54am

re: #243 Sharmuta

I heart it was Robert Kennedy Jr. looking for that post.

Is he the one who dated his nanny?

245 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:44:01am
Given his role in the Clinton Machine - and his support of Hillary in the primaries, Rahm Emanuel's pick by Sen. Barack Obama might appear at first blush to be surprising. But Mr. Emanuel has long been comfortable moving between two worlds.

An Israeli citizen until he was 18 years old, he broke with other leading Democrats to vote for the Iraq War. His father was a member of the Irgun, the Jewish underground organization led by Menachem Begin which the British condemned as terrorists.During the 1991 Gulf War, Mr. Emanuel was a civilian volunteer in the Israeli Defense Forces.

Interesting. It continues:

And now, a thought experiment: what would Rahm Emanuel do if he had Congressman John Boehner's job as House Minority Leader?

That's easy. Put as many long-range torpedoes into the water aimed at Senator Obama's ship of state before Republicans lose control of the Executive Branch as possible. Here are a few:


Article here.

246 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:44:36am

re: #240 yma o hyd
actually Ireland aren't playing too well either .The score should be higher.(now 45 -0)

247 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:45:14am

re: #246 mahatma coat

actually Ireland aren't playing too well either .The score should be higher.(now 45 -0)

What's the under over?

248 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:45:27am

re: #244 Nevergiveup

Is he the one who dated his nanny?

I thought that was the one who died in the skiing accident...?

249 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:45:35am

re: #195 mahatma coat

not that anyone care...Ireland thumping Canada in the rugby 38-0
with 1/2 an hour to go

Eleanor Rugby?

250 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:46:15am

re: #248 Intrepid

I thought that was the one who died in the skiing accident...?

Anybody got a scorecard?

251 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:46:31am

re: #238 Intrepid

I have become incredibly disappointed in Senator McCain in light of his complete silence surrounding the trashing of his running mate. He has lost a great deal of my respect, and will lose all of it if he doesn't jump in with a public statement within the next few days.


I am sure McCain will do right by Gov Palin... he put her in the spotlight, his folks are trashing her... he will do the right thing. I cannot imagine that he would hang her out to dry like this.
But the Republicans who are trashing her... well they have some answering to do. I will never support a candidate who employs them ever again.

252 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:46:45am

re: #247 Nevergiveup
whats an under over?

253 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:47:14am

re: #244 Nevergiveup

Is he the one who dated his nanny?

"Get off the babysitter, put your pants on and come out with your hands up!"

254 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:47:40am

re: #252 mahatma coat

whats an under over?

Total score for both teams combined. You bet either under or over.

255 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:47:49am

re: #218 shanec99

Bet no one can find a better Sec of Veteran Affairs than John Kerry Edwards

256 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:47:56am

re: #243 Sharmuta

"heart" was supposed to be heard.

257 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:48:36am

re: #234 strikefo

It seems to be the general feeling here, or at least, the hope of most, that we are hoping that Obama will be a centrist. That now that he's elected, he will govern as more to the right.

I find this completely odd and out of sync with what he have been discussing during the entire election cycle. The fact that he is a socialist, completely left-leaning liberal for 2 years and suddenly when he seizes all the power in the land, he will magically be a centrist is foolish and wishful thinking.

He will govern just as he campaigned. He will govern as Jimmy Carter, part 2.

This is inevitable. Stop wishing he'll suddenly be conservative. He's not going to.

FWIW, he ran right when he campaigned. Liberals always do to get elected. He made gaffs that would have been the death knell of Clinton or even Carter, yet he won. He sees a mandate, and will shift back left as is clear from some of his statements in the final days. The question is whether he will go back to his original position as the most liberal socialist in the senate, or whether he will continue further to the left to appease his master Soros.

258 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:49:02am

re: #254 Nevergiveup
aahh...betting ,the one vice I ,thankfully ,have no interest in

259 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:50:09am

re: #255 sattv4u2

I heard he was gonna be nominated for Surgeon General, he would be perfect for dealing with issues relating to illness and surviving potentially chronic and life threatening diseases.

260 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:50:21am

re: #236 David Baker

He looked like a yard dog who had been beaten down by his masters -

He looked gawd awful. I can imagine him thinking "What the hell was I THINKING?"

Quite honestly, I don't think he ever expected to win - and is in over his head.

261 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:50:23am
262 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:51:02am

re: #246 mahatma coat

actually Ireland aren't playing too well either .The score should be higher.(now 45 -0)

I'm actually a bit astonished - Canada always gave a very good account of themselves. I guess they're in transition, after last year's World Cup.
Ireland has a new coach - he's got something to prove. We'll se how they do against the Bokkes, All Blacks and Wallabies ...

263 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:51:56am

re: #261 ploome hineni

too funny

they all look like Rosie

No that would be a lesbian explosion.

264 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:51:59am

re: #262 yma o hyd

I'm actually a bit astonished - Canada always gave a very good account of themselves. I guess they're in transition, after last year's World Cup.
Ireland has a new coach - he's got something to prove. We'll se how they do against the Bokkes, All Blacks and Wallabies ...

OK. I'll bite. What are the Bokkes?

265 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:52:19am

re: #256 Sharmuta

"heart" was supposed to be heard.

I did wonder - initially!

:-)

266 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:52:35am

all blacks next week .We could find ourselves in Canada's position.(well not quite)

267 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:53:10am

re: #249 debutaunt

Eleanor Rugby?

Picks up the ball on the pitch where her game was set to begin...

268 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:53:17am

re: #264 Nevergiveup

OK. I'll bite. What are the Bokkes?

Springboks - Rugby team from South Africa.

Usually one of the top 3-4 in national ratings.

269 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:53:24am

Any weather geeks online who can give us some idea of what is going on with this Cat. 4 hurricane?

270 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:53:45am

re: #264 Nevergiveup

springboks ...South africa

271 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:54:16am

re: #269 Wishing

Any weather geeks online who can give us some idea of what is going on with this Cat. 4 hurricane?

Yeah. It blows.

272 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:54:28am

re: #268 Intrepid

Springboks - Rugby team from South Africa.

Usually one of the top 3-4 in national ratings.

Thanks. Who says you can't teach a not so old dog a new trick?

273 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:54:28am

re: #251 shanec99
Respectfully - just when do you think McCain will "do right" by Palin?
Don't you think he should have said something by now?

274 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:54:39am

re: #268 Intrepid

Springboks - Rugby team from South Africa.

Usually one of the top 3-4 in national ratings.

D'OH! International ratings, should be. PIMF

275 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:54:52am

re: #264 Nevergiveup

OK. I'll bite. What are the Bokkes?

The Bokkes, thats the Springboks, which is the name for the National Rugby Squad of South Africa.
The Kiwis, or Al Blacks, as they like to be called since they play in and - ye guessed it - all black outfit, are the team from New Zealand - and the Wallabies, thats the team from Australia.

276 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:55:14am

re: #238 Intrepid

I have become incredibly disappointed in Senator McCain in light of his complete silence surrounding the trashing of his running mate. He has lost a great deal of my respect, and will lose all of it if he doesn't jump in with a public statement within the next few days.

Agreed. He should have come out that day (or the next) and denounced the attacks. I expected much better from him, but apparently, he only defends politicians from the other side of the aisle.

277 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:55:44am

re: #273 realwest

Respectfully - just when do you think McCain will "do right" by Palin?
Don't you think he should have said something by now?

He has already lost the high ground with his delays, but I do think his wife did say something if I am not wrong.

278 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:56:18am

re: #269 Wishing

Any weather geeks online who can give us some idea of what is going on with this Cat. 4 hurricane?

Wind is blowing and massive ammounts of rain are falling. The usual stuff, Why did you ask?

279 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:56:32am

re: #275 yma o hyd

52-0 its getting embarassing

280 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:05am

re: #266 mahatma coat

all blacks next week .We could find ourselves in Canada's position.(well not quite)

They're playing up in Murrayfield (Edinburgh/Scotland) later this night. Will have to watch - they're coming to us, after visiting Ireland ...
Will be interesting: their coach, Graham Henry, used to coach our lads, about ten years ago - and Warren gatland (who coached Ireland at the beginning of the millennium!) is of course a Kiwi ...

281 Pianobuff  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:18am

OT: Lizards can sound off here on Diatha (Your daddy's going to be in Iraq for 100 years) Harris's classroom behavior. Takes only 10 seconds.

282 saberry0530  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:30am

re: #269 Wishing

Any weather geeks online who can give us some idea of what is going on with this Cat. 4 hurricane?

Gonna rip Fidel and the poorly Cuban people a new one. Look for very little news at all from the Official news agency. That is the signal that it is very bad

283 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:36am

re: #245 logboy

The suggestions of what should be done before Bush turns over the executive to the Dems are spot on. I especially would like to see Bush appoint a special prosecutor to investigate ACORN and voter fraud operations, investigate credit card and on-line campaign donations, and appoint a bipartisan comminssion to investigate fundraising in general.

But will Bush do it?

284 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:39am

re: #279 mahatma coat

52-0 its getting embarassing

In American Football, at 52-0, the fights would be starting both in the stands and on the field.

285 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:46am

re: #273 realwest

Respectfully - just when do you think McCain will "do right" by Palin?
Don't you think he should have said something by now?

Look, my belief is that he has cut himself off from the public after the election and is spending time with his wife to "recuperate" after the campaign and may not be aware of the severity of the trashing she is taking.
He is just too good a guy to let this go unanswered.

286 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:57:52am

realwest, check yer mail

287 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:06am

re: #274 Intrepid

D'OH! International ratings, should be. PIMF

Heh. Most important, those rankings!

288 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:08am

re: #266 mahatma coat

Racist!

/

289 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:08am

re: #278 JeremyR

Wind is blowing and massive ammounts of rain are falling. The usual stuff, Why did you ask?

I thought maybe the Almighty might be weighing on on the Zero's election with a little *social experiment* of his own.

290 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:09am

Ok, worky now. Bye.

291 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:10am

re: #251 shanec99

I am sure McCain will do right by Gov Palin... he put her in the spotlight, his folks are trashing her... he will do the right thing. I cannot imagine that he would hang her out to dry like this.
But the Republicans who are trashing her... well they have some answering to do. I will never support a candidate who employs them ever again.

In the article Ploome quoted, Senator McCain already spoke out against using Mr Obama's middle name to ridicule him.

But he has said nothing - nada, zilch, zippo - in defense of Sarah Palin against the smears that came out against her by his own campaign staff just a day or two after the election.

He defended his opponent before his own running mate. That smacks of disrespect for Governor Palin. She wouldn't have had to defend herself publicly if only he had done it on her behalf, as he should have done.

292 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:51am

NOAA on Hurricane Paloma:
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

293 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:54am

Anyone out here have a link to a (preferably free) spyware/adware protection tool? I've used Spyware Doctor which seemed to be doing a good job, but I upgraded to the latest version, properly uninstalled the old version and properly installed the latest version
of 6.0.0.386 and it hasn't picked up a single infection or cookie.
With the old version I was getting tracking cookies (low risk) and some other low risk "infections" every single time I got on the internet. Now it's not picking up anything, not even tracking cookies.
So I'm in the market for a new tool that will do what Spyware Doctor is supposed to do.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

294 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:59:31am

re: #277 Nevergiveup

He has already lost the high ground with his delays, but I do think his wife did say something if I am not wrong.

Not the same. He needed to address this - forcefully and early. He failed to do so. But no worries, with more actions like that he will return to being the MSM's darling maverick in no time.

295 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:59:33am

re: #284 Nevergiveup

stands are half empty...everyone going home,or more likely down the pub

296 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:59:43am

re: #279 mahatma coat

52-0 its getting embarassing

Blimey - if we can't better that next week, the Irish won't stop gloating!
Nothing like a nice, brotherly love-hate relationship between two Celtic rugby nations!

297 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:59:44am

re: #267 Sharmuta

Picks up the ball on the pitch where her game was set to begin...

Nifty cadence!

298 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:59:44am

re: #292 jaunte

NOAA on Hurricane Paloma:
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

Thanks Jaunte, but apparently they have NO idea where this storm is heading?

299 FrogMarch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:00:14am

REPUBLICANS better do it - or I will lose all respect.

300 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:00:26am

re: #285 shanec99
Again, with respect, I simply cannot believe he doesn't know what's going on with Govenor Palin.

301 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:00:40am

re: #291 Intrepid

In the article Ploome quoted, Senator McCain already spoke out against using Mr Obama's middle name to ridicule him.

But he has said nothing - nada, zilch, zippo - in defense of Sarah Palin against the smears that came out against her by his own campaign staff just a day or two after the election.

He defended his opponent before his own running mate. That smacks of disrespect for Governor Palin. She wouldn't have had to defend herself publicly if only he had done it on her behalf, as he should have done.

Exactly. He is more concerned with defending the opposition than his own running mate. Personally, I think it's despicable to not say anything about the Palin attacks.

Come to think of it, he didn't really rant and rave about the Palin smears during the campaign, either. At least, not like he did for the "Hussein" reports.

302 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:00:45am

re: #289 Wishing

I thought maybe the Almighty might be weighing on on the Zero's election with a little *social experiment* of his own.

the markets have weighed in
the Palis have
Putin has
the Norks have
the Oil ticks have
why not Hashem?

still waiting for the Chinese "liberation" of Taiwan

303 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:01:11am

re: #287 yma o hyd

Heh. Most important, those rankings!

DOUBLE D'OH! I typed "ratings", should have been rankings.

Yeesh, need more coffee...

304 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:02:08am

re: #284 Nevergiveup

In American Football, at 52-0, the fights would be starting both in the stands and on the field.

Anybody starting a fight on the field (or pitch,a s we call it) leads to an immediate banning - and probably to another official bann of at least four to six weeks.
Players are very keen to separate hotheads.

Oh - and rugby crowds are the most peaceful crowds you can wish for; they sit all mixed together, drink and sing before, during and after the game, no fighting!

305 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:02:08am

Ok, I posted this once upthread but the lizards who are just coming in may not have seen it.

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of "palling around with terrorists", citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.

Michelle Obama, the future First Lady, was so upset that she turned to her friend and campaign adviser Valerie Jarrett and said: "Why would they try to make people hate us?"

The revelations, contained in a Newsweek history of the campaign, are likely to further damage Mrs Palin's credentials as a future presidential candidate

306 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:02:37am

re: #286 wahabicorridor
Done and replied to.

307 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:03:06am

re: #300 realwest

Again, with respect, I simply cannot believe he doesn't know what's going on with Govenor Palin.


I dont know, but I would rather give him the benefit of the doubt. What I am upset about is that the rank and file of the Republican party has not given the miscreants the heave ho. They should be identified, and the bright lights of exposure shined on them so we can know them for what they are. Then we should see to it that they are never put in a place where they can damage the people who speak for us again.

308 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:03:20am

re: #304 yma o hyd

and sing each others songs in the pub .Good natured rivalry with lots of ribbing

309 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:03:51am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

BULLSHIT!

310 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:03:56am

final 55-0

311 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:04am

re: #283 wolfie

The suggestions of what should be done before Bush turns over the executive to the Dems are spot on. I especially would like to see Bush appoint a special prosecutor to investigate ACORN and voter fraud operations, investigate credit card and on-line campaign donations, and appoint a bipartisan comminssion to investigate fundraising in general.

But will Bush do it?


Highly doubt it. With the Bush popularity rating, anything he does will be unpopular. I think he's biding his time until he's out of office. I expect to see some last minute Clintonesque pardons and other questionable actions.

312 Syrah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:15am

re: #302 spidly

the markets have weighed in
the Palis have
Putin has
the Norks have
the Oil ticks have
why not Hashem?

still waiting for the Chinese "liberation" of Taiwan

Nothing will happen until after the inauguration. After that . . .

313 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:27am

re: #293 realwest

It's not a free application, but Webroot's Spysweeper is one of the best out there. I've seen that almost all of the free ones that I am aware of have dropped off in quality quite a bit in their ability to detect and clean spyware. I personally prefer the security suites myself - very pleased with NIS 2009 as it installs and uses far fewer system resources than before (or other suites like Zone Alarm, Kapersky, TrendMicro, McAfee)

314 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:45am

all blacks 22 -scotland 6

315 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:52am

re: #311 logboy

Highly doubt it. With the Bush popularity rating, anything he does will be unpopular. I think he's biding his time until he's out of office. I expect to see some last minute Clintonesque pardons and other questionable actions.

May Jonathan Pollard be one of those pardons!

316 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:54am

re: #293 realwest

Anyone out here have a link to a (preferably free) spyware/adware protection tool? I've used Spyware Doctor which seemed to be doing a good job, but I upgraded to the latest version, properly uninstalled the old version and properly installed the latest version
of 6.0.0.386 and it hasn't picked up a single infection or cookie.
With the old version I was getting tracking cookies (low risk) and some other low risk "infections" every single time I got on the internet. Now it's not picking up anything, not even tracking cookies.
So I'm in the market for a new tool that will do what Spyware Doctor is supposed to do.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Look for AVG, which produces an edition called something like "AVG-Free". It's very well-reviewed, typically scoring as well or better than paid products. I'd fish around for it myself, but I am sorry to say that I am on a very slow connection.

317 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:04:58am

re: #309 Nevergiveup

BULLSHIT!

I second that! Yet another Palin smear. To quote the loony left: "MOVE ON!"

318 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:05:04am

Repost of my #293 - where have all the tech geeks gone?!
"Anyone out here have a link to a (preferably free) spyware/adware protection tool? I've used Spyware Doctor which seemed to be doing a good job, but I upgraded to the latest version, properly uninstalled the old version and properly installed the latest version
of 6.0.0.386 and it hasn't picked up a single infection or cookie.
With the old version I was getting tracking cookies (low risk) and some other low risk "infections" every single time I got on the internet. Now it's not picking up anything, not even tracking cookies.
So I'm in the market for a new tool that will do what Spyware Doctor is supposed to do.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

319 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:05:09am

re: #298 Wishing

No, but I'd bet heavily on the Yucatan peninsula.

320 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:05:10am

re: #297 debutaunt

I thought you'd like it.

321 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:05:12am

re: #293 realwest

Anyone out here have a link to a (preferably free) spyware/adware protection tool? I've used Spyware Doctor which seemed to be doing a good job, but I upgraded to the latest version, properly uninstalled the old version and properly installed the latest version
of 6.0.0.386 and it hasn't picked up a single infection or cookie.
With the old version I was getting tracking cookies (low risk) and some other low risk "infections" every single time I got on the internet. Now it's not picking up anything, not even tracking cookies.
So I'm in the market for a new tool that will do what Spyware Doctor is supposed to do.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.


I've been using Spybot for years.

322 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:05:32am

re: #311 logboy

Highly doubt it. With the Bush popularity rating, anything he does will be unpopular. I think he's biding his time until he's out of office. I expect to see some last minute Clintonesque pardons and other questionable actions.

If people hate him so much, he might as well give them their money's worth.

323 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:05:35am

re: #312 Syrah

Nothing will happen until after the inauguration. After that . . .

But this hurricane might happen a bit early then...

324 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:06:17am

re: #316 MajorPribluda

Look for AVG, which produces an edition called something like "AVG-Free". It's very well-reviewed, typically scoring as well or better than paid products. I'd fish around for it myself, but I am sorry to say that I am on a very slow connection.

I have used AVG-free for years and have never had a problem.

325 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:06:39am

re: #308 mahatma coat

and sing each others songs in the pub .Good natured rivalry with lots of ribbing

Yep - and wear their team's colours ... its brilliant.
People have been travelling to these Internationals for decades, lots of friendships, and no hard feelings between the supporters, win or lose.
(Hard felings are reserved for the players and coaches - and the refs, of course!)
Mind - we can do without having a French cockerel running wild on the pitch before each match here!

326 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:06:40am

re: #317 Wyatt Earp

I second that! Yet another Palin smear. To quote the loony left: "MOVE ON!"

Seriously. Obama ran against a lame-duck candidate, and now the political hacks and their MSM lapdogs are running a smear campaign against an ex-candidate.

327 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:06:58am

re: #300 realwest

It does seem unlike McCain to let this go unanswered. I know this is a stretch but suppose the rumors are true and McCain only figured out Palin was a problem after the pick. It would have been too late and too embarrassing to throw her off the ticket so he just kept her and tried to keep things quiet. It's a possibility.

328 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:07:10am

re: #326 Who Watches the Watchmen?

PIMF
Seriously. Obama ran against a lame-duck candidate president,

329 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:07:21am
330 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:07:34am

re: #322 Who Watches the Watchmen?

If people hate him so much, he might as well give them their money's worth.

Give Bush 10-15 years. People will refer to him glowingly. Meet me here to see if I'm right.

331 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:07:41am

re: #325 yma o hyd
although we wouldn't mind the cockerel in the scrum

332 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:07:43am

re: #310 mahatma coat

final 55-0

Wow.
Well done!
Thats more points for Ireland than the Bokkes and us combined put on the scoresheet!

333 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:02am

re: #320 Sharmuta

I thought you'd like it.

You do keep me entertained!

334 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:09am

re: #293 realwest

try this one

335 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:15am

re: #301 Wyatt Earp

Exactly. He is more concerned with defending the opposition than his own running mate. Personally, I think it's despicable to not say anything about the Palin attacks.

Come to think of it, he didn't really rant and rave about the Palin smears during the campaign, either. At least, not like he did for the "Hussein" reports.

It shouldn't be surprising to us - after all, he has a long history of treating democrats with more respect than he does his own party's conservative wing.

I've got to wonder if there might be some lingering animosity or jealousy towards Governor Palin for the much larger crowds she attracted, compared to those he drew, during the campaign. I hate to think that of him, but I just wonder...

336 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:22am

re: #305 wahabicorridor


The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.


The "kill him" thing has been debunked. So much for the MSM fact checking.

337 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:38am

Oh good lord!

Gov. Ted Strickland placed the director of the state Department of Job and Family Services on paid leave yesterday for possibly using a state computer and e-mail account for political fundraising.

E-mails obtained by The Dispatch show that Helen Jones-Kelley's account was used to assist the presidential campaign of Democrat Barack Obama in raising money.

Paid leave? Fire the crook already...

338 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:41am

re: #314 mahatma coat

all blacks 22 -scotland 6

I'm outta here - gotta watch this!

Later ...

339 Syrah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:09:50am

re: #323 Wishing

But this hurricane might happen a bit early then...

They will just blame Bush.

340 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:09:59am

re: #313 Athos
and
re: #316 MajorPribluda

Thanks - the problem is probably my 'puter, cause I can't do a FULL SCAN with my Norton anti-virus because, according to the Geek Squad techs (2 of em on seperate occasions) my motherboard and probably my HD have to be replaced. They installed a "new" motherboard but IT was non-functioning, so they sent me another "new" motherboard and I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for %$#&$ GATEWAY to send me the Restoration Disk I need before I can replace the HD.
Problem is I can't go back to the old version of Spyware Doctor either (which, btw, was not a for free application either) so I'm kinda stuck here.

341 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:07am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Isolate. Marginalize. Ridicule. Demonize.
- Saul Alinsky

Never mind that Obama WAS palling around with Bill Ayers.
That's just "truth."
Image is everything...and the MSM is God.

342 uncleFuzzy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:21am

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm sorry, but the lyrics from the Beatles song, I am the Walrus, are actually:

"I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob."

So many have mistaken the Simon and Garfunkel lyrics from Mrs. Robinson:

"Koo-koo-ka-choo, Mrs. Robinson,
Jesus loves you more than you will know."

that this happens a lot.

343 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:25am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Ok, I posted this once upthread but the lizards who are just coming in may not have seen it.

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

Now isn't that the biggest, steamiest pile of dog shit you've ever seen in your life? Good grief.

344 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:27am

re: #336 Killgore Trout

The "kill him" thing has been debunked. So much for the MSM fact checking.

Oh, they know it's false. They just don't give a monkey's butt.

345 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:29am

re: #327 Killgore Trout

It does seem unlike McCain to let this go unanswered. I know this is a stretch but suppose the rumors are true and McCain only figured out Palin was a problem after the pick. It would have been too late and too embarrassing to throw her off the ticket so he just kept her and tried to keep things quiet. It's a possibility.

And even if they are, and I don't believe them, it is not Palin's fault. She was picked. She didn't barge her way onto the ticket. If it was a mistake to put her on the ticket, it was McCain's mistake and he should stand up like a man. Anyway the manner McCain ran his campaign, he wasn't gonna win this election anyway.

346 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:36am

re: #335 Intrepid

It shouldn't be surprising to us - after all, he has a long history of treating democrats with more respect than he does his own party's conservative wing.

I've got to wonder if there might be some lingering animosity or jealousy towards Governor Palin for the much larger crowds she attracted, compared to those he drew, during the campaign. I hate to think that of him, but I just wonder...

He lost my benefit of the doubt when he stood silent for days after these Palin attacks.

347 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:46am

re: #339 Syrah

They will just blame Bush.

And his weather machine.
Wait...weather...wasnt there something about Obama and weather?

348 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:49am

re: #307 shanec99

I want names.

349 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:54am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Ok, I posted this once upthread but the lizards who are just coming in may not have seen it.

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

This is loathsome. Obama not only has a closet full of Marxist terrorists and racist hate-mongers, they're all over his living room! But who gets blamed for people unhinged by hatred? Those who point out that these foul associations make him unfit for office.

How anybody could try to paint the unprepossessing , wildly popular, and quaintly charming (if astonishingly effective at dismantling corrupt institutions) Governor of Alaska (Alaska, FFS!) as some sort of hate-monger is beyond me. And yet there's a whole first-string of MSM doing just that.

Unreal. Just when I try and settle into the reality of an Obama Presidency, I get jolted again by how far we have fallen, so fast.

350 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:10:58am

re: #283 wolfie

The suggestions of what should be done before Bush turns over the executive to the Dems are spot on. I especially would like to see Bush appoint a special prosecutor to investigate ACORN and voter fraud operations, investigate credit card and on-line campaign donations, and appoint a bipartisan comminssion to investigate fundraising in general.

But will Bush do it?


After the 2006 elections Bush implemented the dem ideas Time to begin bombing Pakistan in prep for an invasion on Jan 19th.

351 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:11:25am

re: #343 Intrepid

Now isn't that the biggest, steamiest pile of dog shit you've ever seen in your life? Good grief.

Yep.

352 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:11:49am
353 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:11:55am

re: #127 gmsc

I think I know what the "Nirth Certifikit" is that 0bama wants to hide: the expiration date!

You think hes a Runner?

354 exredtory  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:11:58am

re: #180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Darn. No video.

I hope the rope wipe that effin' grin off their faces.

355 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:12:18am

I'm bored.

356 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:12:54am

re: #293 realwest

I've got Ad-Aware SE Personal, a-squared free, Spybot Search and Destroy, and SpywareBlaster installed on this machine. All free. Yahoo also has a toolbar for both FireFox and InternetExploder that contains a malware remover. It's actually a program called BY the toolbar that's installed along with it.

357 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:12:56am

If I were Palin, I'd take Stevens Senate Seat and stick it to her critics for the next 6 years but good!

358 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:13:00am

re: #311 logboy

Highly doubt it. With the Bush popularity rating, anything he does will be unpopular. I think he's biding his time until he's out of office. I expect to see some last minute Clintonesque pardons and other questionable actions.

Clintonesque pardons? Of true felons and terrorists? I don't think so.

As you say, he is garbage now in the popular mind. So what does he have to lose?

359 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:13:08am

re: #341 wolfie

Isolate. Marginalize. Ridicule. Demonize.
- Saul Alinsky


Right out of the Alinsky playbook.

360 Jimmah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:13:19am

re: #314 mahatma coat

all blacks 22 -scotland 6

A poor scoreline ...but it's only rugby - no one cares about that here anymore. Scotland is a tennis nation these days.

361 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:13:51am

re: #355 Miss Trixie


Hello sweetums!

362 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:13:54am

re: #348 wolfie

I want names.


Me too.

363 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:14:06am

re: #355 Miss Trixie

I'm bored.

Start drumming your finger and then start to chant:

"Never in my life have I ever been so bored, etc...

364 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:14:18am

re: #357 Nevergiveup

I like that idea. The question is, does she really feel like serving as a lightning rod for 6 years?

365 JeremyR  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:14:40am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

Ok, I posted this once upthread but the lizards who are just coming in may not have seen it.

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

I thought all that had been debunked, but they are pulling a dan Blather and hanging onto the meme.

366 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:14:47am

re: #361 wahabicorridor

Hello sweetums!

Darling lady! *mwah* Glad to see you. :D
How's the blood pressure? :P

367 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:15:30am

re: #340 realwest

and
re: #316 MajorPribluda

Thanks - the problem is probably my 'puter, cause I can't do a FULL SCAN with my Norton anti-virus because, according to the Geek Squad techs (2 of em on seperate occasions) my motherboard and probably my HD have to be replaced. They installed a "new" motherboard but IT was non-functioning, so they sent me another "new" motherboard and I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for %$#&$ GATEWAY to send me the Restoration Disk I need before I can replace the HD.
Problem is I can't go back to the old version of Spyware Doctor either (which, btw, was not a for free application either) so I'm kinda stuck here.


Never, EVER, under ANY circumstances, buy a GATEWAY!
The components are horribly cheap,short lived, and shoddily implemented. Save your money and buy a dell. I'd stay away from HP as well (horrible proprietary software).

368 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:15:40am

re: #292 jaunte

NOAA on Hurricane Paloma:
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]

This reminds me: What ever happened to Ed "the Weatherman" that used to post on here?

369 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:15:40am

Laterz, lizardz

370 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:16:09am

re: #345 Nevergiveup


If it was a mistake to put her on the ticket, it was McCain's mistake and he should stand up like a man. Anyway the manner McCain ran his campaign, he wasn't gonna win this election anyway.

Agreed.

371 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:16:20am

Hey thanks all y'all for the links to the various tools I can use - Spybot is apparently NOT free, but I'm gonna try Search and Destroy provided by Mike in Georgia - thanks Mike!

372 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:16:43am

re: #363 debutaunt

Start drumming your finger and then start to chant:

"Never in my life have I ever been so bored, etc...

Thanks, but I've just discovered the Eskimos and Blue Bombers bashing it out on a frozen field for the chance to play my beloved Stampeders for the Western Final on the way to the Grey Cup.

/How's that for a run-on sentence? :D

373 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:16:52am

re: #364 rawmuse

I like that idea. The question is, does she really feel like serving as a lightning rod for 6 years?

If she has any national aspirations, I think she has to fight back and stay prominent. That would be much easier to do in Washington that in Anchorage. If she doesn't then I'd say stay put.

374 shanec99  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:17:05am

Night all... its after 10 pm over here

375 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:17:12am

re: #330 logboy

Give Bush 10-15 years. People will refer to him glowingly. Meet me here to see if I'm right.

I agree with your sentiment, and presumably the reasons behind it. Unfortunately, I think that this comforting argument discounts recent changes in the media, and in the power of the media. The simultaneous collapse of journalistic integrity with the domination of the left over all forms of organized media except talk radio (3, 2, 1...), and the now-complete deathgrip the Marxists have on our schools all indicate an awful public landscape of ideas in 10-15 years.

We're like NEO in The Matrix, where Agent Smith has him trapped in front of an onruching train. Except we're not NEO. We're just Mr. Anderson, mild-mannered IT guy. In front of the damned train. Guess what.

376 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:17:28am

re: #336 Killgore Trout

The "kill him" thing has been debunked. So much for the MSM fact checking.

The "lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies" is also a blatant, horrific LIE.

377 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:18:17am

re: #368 fish

I think he received the stick, but I don't remember why.

378 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:18:49am

re: #366 Miss Trixie

Darling lady! *mwah* Glad to see you. :D
How's the blood pressure? :P

Not bad actually. Looking at the mess the country is in, I'm grateful it's the Dems who are now on the hot seat. Don't know if you caught any of The Messiah's speech yesterday but he looked like he'd been dragged thru a knot hole.

Poor baby. It hasn't even been a week and already I'm feeling sorry for him.

NOT

379 snowcrash  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:19:10am

Anyone think Bush will pardon the 2 border patrol agents Ramos and Campeon?

380 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:19:11am

re: #377 jaunte

I think he received the stick, but I don't remember why.

Stabbing Charles in the back.

381 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:09am

re: #372 Miss Trixie

Thanks, but I've just discovered the Eskimos and Blue Bombers bashing it out on a frozen field for the chance to play my beloved Stampeders for the Western Final on the way to the Grey Cup.

/How's that for a run-on sentence? :D

It was a fine example of the wonders of and use of prepositional phrases - way to go!

382 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:10am

re: #340 realwest

Wow, that's an interesting challenge to be dealing with.

Have you tried some of the on-line free scans that are available on some of the security sites to see if you can get a scan to complete? That might be a stop gap until you get the re-installation disks and can get the hardware issues resolved. Another option would be to try some trial software as an installation - almost all of the pay software solutions have a 15 day - 30 day trial that may cover you until the system gets rebuilt and you can return to using the software you were using before the hardware issues.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the issue as just a short-term one...

383 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:16am

re: #379 snowcrash

Anyone think Bush will pardon the 2 border patrol agents Ramos and Campeon?

Maybe. I hope so.

384 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:28am

re: #368 fish

This reminds me: What ever happened to Ed "the Weatherman" that used to post on here?

He seemed a decent enough yob to talk to when he came to Nam Grunt's BBQ two summers ago but it turned out he was just anohter sh*t disturber, dissing Charles on GCP and other smarmy blogs. So Charles whacked 'im.

That was ages ago ...

385 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:33am

re: #368 fish

This reminds me: What ever happened to Ed "the Weatherman" that used to post on here?

I think he jumped overboard to catch a ship full of fascists. Too bad, too. Up until then, I always enjoyed his company.

386 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:35am

Brace yourself, you're not going to believe this.

Bill Ayers: Becoming a target of 'terrorist' attack

For the past few years, I have gone about my business, hanging out with my kids and, now, my grandchildren, taking care of our elders (they moved in as the kids moved out), going to work, teaching and writing. And every day, I participate in the never-ending effort to build a powerful and irresistible movement for peace and social justice.

In years past, I would now and then – and often unpredictably – appear in the newspapers or on TV, sometimes with a reference to Fugitive Days, my 2001 memoir of the exhilarating and difficult years of resistance against the American war in Vietnam.

Then came this political season.

/yes boys and girls, it's Bill Ayers, the victim of terrorism, in his own words

387 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:38am

re: #368 fish

This reminds me: What ever happened to Ed "the Weatherman" that used to post on here?

banned

388 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:39am

re: #379 snowcrash

he should !Its a disgrace they're in jail in the first place

389 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:41am

re: #373 Nevergiveup

Speaking of Chicago mungfucks, who is taking over BHOs Senate seat?

390 itellu3times  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:20:45am

re: #305 wahabicorridor

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

That's crap. MSM crap.

391 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:21:18am

re: #380 Sharmuta

Stabbing Charles in the back.

Really? I only ever remeber him talking about the weather. I have carried his explanation of the "sine curve of the changing seasons" in my mind for years.

392 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:21:57am

re: #391 fish

Yes- he was talking trash at another blog.

393 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:21:57am

re: #386 Killian Bundy


Oh, man I'm cryin'...!

394 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:21:58am

re: #381 debutaunt

It was a fine example of the wonders of and use of prepositional phrases - way to go!

*takes a bow*

*riiip*

=O

395 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:22:06am

re: #367 logboy


Never, EVER, under ANY circumstances, buy a GATEWAY!
The components are horribly cheap,short lived, and shoddily implemented. Save your money and buy a dell. I'd stay away from HP as well (horrible proprietary software).

Get a Lenovo Thinpad

American support
standard parts
Gateway uses proprietary stuff
ditto for Dell
Dell and HP also have "tech support" in India
and I scare quote "tech support"
because it is basically some dumbass
who does not speak any English
except to repeat your question/problem BACK to you

396 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:22:13am

re: #364 rawmuse

I think she should finish her term as governor first, then run for the Senate at the next opportunity. (She's young and can wait.) Stay out of the fray for a while and give the media time to shift their demonization elsewhere.

The Left must have a demon. It's not an option for them, it's a necessity.

397 Macker  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:22:14am

re: #389 rawmuse

Speaking of Chicago mungfucks, who is taking over BHOs Senate seat?

I wouldn't doubt it if Blogo gives it to Jesse Jackson, Jr.

398 mahatma coat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:22:18am

re: #384 Miss Trixie
whats GCP?

399 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:22:35am

re: #389 rawmuse

Speaking of Chicago mungfucks, who is taking over BHOs Senate seat?

Is there an appointment and then a new election? Jessie jackson Jr.? G-D forbid!

400 Truck Monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:22:45am

re: #283 wolfie

The suggestions of what should be done before Bush turns over the executive to the Dems are spot on. I especially would like to see Bush appoint a special prosecutor to investigate ACORN and voter fraud operations, investigate credit card and on-line campaign donations, and appoint a bipartisan comminssion to investigate fundraising in general.

But will Bush do it?


No.

401 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:23:12am

re: #365 JeremyR

I thought all that had been debunked, but they are pulling a dan Blather and hanging onto the meme.

Sounds like we need a new Throbbing Memo about now... some kind of devastating proof there's news-media fraud going on here.

402 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:23:25am

re: #379 snowcrash

Anyone think Bush will pardon the 2 border patrol agents Ramos and Campeon?

I immediately thought of that, then decided not to post, as it just sounds laughable now. I hate to see it, but that would surprise the ever-loving crap out of me. You know what would not surprise me? Seeing Obama do it.

He could shore up his security credentials without spending a dime, and without enforcing anything. Mark my words.

403 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:23:52am

re: #379 snowcrash

Anyone think Bush will pardon the 2 border patrol agents Ramos and Campeon?

Dear Lord, I hope so.

404 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:24:01am

re: #386 Killian Bundy

Brace yourself, you're not going to believe this.

Bill Ayers: Becoming a target of 'terrorist' attack


/yes boys and girls, it's Bill Ayers, the victim of terrorism, in his own words


I LOVE irony!

405 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:24:12am

re: #379 snowcrash

Anyone think Bush will pardon the 2 border patrol agents Ramos and Campeon?

Those would be the best pardons he could ever give.

406 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:24:49am

re: #389 rawmuse

Speaking of Chicago mungfucks, who is taking over BHOs Senate seat?

Did he ever use it? Does anyone know for sure where it is, maybe in storage someplace?

407 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:25:25am

re: #398 mahatma coat

whats GCP?

Out of respect to Charles, I won't post the link; you can find it in a search engine, I'm pretty sure, if you're so inclined.

It's a greasy cesspool of creeps and smarmy pundits.

408 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:25:26am

re: #390 itellu3times

That's crap. MSM crap.

As someone noted above, it's straight from the Alinsky playbook.

Isolate. Marginilize. Ridicule. Demonize.

409 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:25:31am

re: #405 Intrepid

Those would be the best pardons he could ever give.

he can only give pardons to Federal Crimes
not sure, were these state or fed (made up) charges ?

410 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:26:19am

re: #386 Killian Bundy

Brace yourself, you're not going to believe this.

Bill Ayers: Becoming a target of 'terrorist' attack


/yes boys and girls, it's Bill Ayers, the victim of terrorism, in his own words

"...guilty as Hell, free as a bird..."
Scared as a Chihuahua.

Enjoy the fear, creep.

411 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:26:29am

re: #386 Killian Bundy

Ayers maybe should have considered that when he was plotting to kill others.
Or is it possible that he thought the he himself was immortal?

412 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:26:48am

re: #345 Nevergiveup

Anyway the manner McCain ran his campaign, he wasn't gonna win this election anyway

Conservatives made the difference for an Obama win...the number of conservatives that switched from McCain to Obama put Obama over the top in terms of votes...doing so at double the rate of liberals switching from Obama to McCain.

There were a number of strikes against conservatives this year - and the primary process was, with the economy and an inability to effectively communicate to the electorate, being the three largest. McCain didn't run a good campaign - and to me, most of this is whinging from McCain staffers who are trying to point the fingers away from their role in the shitty campaign that McCain ran. As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't hire a single one of them. Hopefully, this failure totally guts the 'moderate' wing of the Republican party so that it can return to its Reagan / Conservative roots. That and learning to leverage alternative media to counteract the MSM bias in terms of communicating to the electorate will make the difference in 2010 / 2012.

413 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:26:58am

wahabbi - have you seen my new avatar? :D :D :D :D

414 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:27:05am

with a reference to Fugitive Days, my 2001 memoir of the exhilarating and difficult years of resistance against the American war in Vietnam.

Utter bullshit.
He continued his terrorism after the U.S. pulled out of Vietnam.
Liars! The Left is full of Liars!

Power to the Correct People!
(Ayers is way incorrect.)

415 alien_mind  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:27:26am

re: #386 Killian Bundy

Brace yourself, you're not going to believe this.

Bill Ayers: Becoming a target of 'terrorist' attack


/yes boys and girls, it's Bill Ayers, the victim of terrorism, in his own words


at last! something positive comes of this election season.

416 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:27:39am

re: #395 Adrenalyn

Get a Lenovo Thinpad

American support
standard parts
Gateway uses proprietary stuff
ditto for Dell
Dell and HP also have "tech support" in India
and I scare quote "tech support"
because it is basically some dumbass
who does not speak any English
except to repeat your question/problem BACK to you

So you buy from the Communists.

417 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:28:32am

re: #386 Killian Bundy

/yes boys and girls, it's Bill Ayers, the victim of terrorism, in his own words

That's not much of a surprise since his ilk believes that the US is a terrorist nation...so by his own definition - if the US stands against him, then he is a victim of a terrorist.

This wanker goes far beyond being a useful idiot.

418 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:29:51am

re: #413 Miss Trixie

wahabbi - have you seen my new avatar? :D :D :D :D


Yep. I clicked on it as soon as you came in. I love it - I had seen it a few days ago and saved it to send to our adopted soldier. He loves that stuff!

Here, kitty kitty...

419 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:29:56am

re: #412 Athos

I guess it depends on what you mean by "moderate" and "conservative".

420 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:29:56am

Bill Ayers: Becoming a target of 'terrorist' attack

It might not be instant, but it is Kharma.

421 oh_dude  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:30:10am

yeah, we all laugh now but I'm sure there were hundreds of Lizards out there who were secretly wishing this was true.

422 alien_mind  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:31:19am

re: #389 rawmuse

Speaking of Chicago mungfucks, who is taking over BHOs Senate seat?


Blago hasn't made up his mind yet. could get interesting if he doesn't name an AA.

423 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:31:33am

re: #416 MajorPribluda

Who doesn't?

424 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:31:34am

re: #421 oh_dude

yeah, we all laugh now but I'm sure there were hundreds of Lizards out there who were secretly wishing this was true.

I figured if there was any truth to this, Hillary would have taken care of it.

425 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:31:52am

re: #416 MajorPribluda

So you buy from the Communists.

all parts are made overseas, period
the world HATES us

China makes many of the parts for ALL manufacturers
TW (soon to be reunited) accounts for plenty too
Mayasia - a Muslim country does some too

if you have to buy, at least purchase from someone who's tech support is performed by native American-English speakers
in the good old US (soon to be 0bamastan)

that's all I am saying
I don't like to support thugocracies but it is what it is

until Palin gets in the WH in 2012
and appoints me the first ever
"Secretary of Offense"

426 Truck Monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:32:22am

re: #379 snowcrash

Anyone think Bush will pardon the 2 border patrol agents Ramos and Campeon?

No

427 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:32:39am

Millions of us DID NOT VOTE for this S.O.B. If we treat this damn thing like a WAR we can turn the tide. Marxism does not work, and has failed even in countries with no history or tradition of democracy or a free press. No matter what they can do, they can't hide this fact.

You must not assume current trends have to continue.

re: #375 MajorPribluda

I agree with your sentiment, and presumably the reasons behind it. Unfortunately, I think that this comforting argument discounts recent changes in the media, and in the power of the media. The simultaneous collapse of journalistic integrity with the domination of the left over all forms of organized media except talk radio (3, 2, 1...), and the now-complete deathgrip the Marxists have on our schools all indicate an awful public landscape of ideas in 10-15 years.

We're like NEO in The Matrix, where Agent Smith has him trapped in front of an onruching train. Except we're not NEO. We're just Mr. Anderson, mild-mannered IT guy. In front of the damned train. Guess what.

428 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:33:11am

re: #422 alien_mind

Blago hasn't made up his mind yet. could get interesting if he doesn't name an AA.

Who is AA

429 The Shadow Do  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:34:02am

Sarah Palin is a grown up playing in a very rough field of work.

I don't think it is to her benefit to have John McCain come rushing to rescue her.

430 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:34:03am

re: #428 Nevergiveup

Who is AA

Arthur Andersen
the giant accounting firm Bush threw under the bus in the Enron saga

431 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:34:12am

Alright, I should get something done today. Does anyone want to help me move some hardwood lumber?

432 fish  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:34:12am

re: #428 Nevergiveup

Who is AA

African American

433 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:34:45am
Here, kitty kitty...

*snort*

:D

434 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:34:52am

re: #428 Nevergiveup

Who is AA

Bill Wilson?
/ok, ok, just funnin'

435 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:35:15am

re: #423 Oh no...Sand People!

Who doesn't?

Ouch!

436 alien_mind  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:35:31am

re: #428 Nevergiveup

Who is AA

sorry, African American.
many around here think it would be a setback if it weren't filled by an African American. the same people that are supposed to be beyond race.

437 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:35:33am

re: #431 logboy

Alright, I should get something done today. Does anyone want to help me move some hardwood lumber?

Unh...that would be a NO

438 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:35:36am

I have an idea to replace B.O.

Chelsea Clinton !

/must I ?

439 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:36:15am

What the fuck kind of conservative votes to kill America?

re: #412 Athos

Conservatives made the difference for an Obama win...the number of conservatives that switched from McCain to Obama put Obama over the top in terms of votes...doing so at double the rate of liberals switching from Obama to McCain.

There were a number of strikes against conservatives this year - and the primary process was, with the economy and an inability to effectively communicate to the electorate, being the three largest. McCain didn't run a good campaign - and to me, most of this is whinging from McCain staffers who are trying to point the fingers away from their role in the shitty campaign that McCain ran. As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't hire a single one of them. Hopefully, this failure totally guts the 'moderate' wing of the Republican party so that it can return to its Reagan / Conservative roots. That and learning to leverage alternative media to counteract the MSM bias in terms of communicating to the electorate will make the difference in 2010 / 2012.

440 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:36:32am

re: #421 oh_dude

yeah, we all laugh now but I'm sure there were hundreds of Lizards out there who were secretly wishing this was true.

Oh, yes, I very much wished it were true. But unlike Liberals, I know that my wishes should not be represented as facts.

441 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:36:35am

re: #436 alien_mind

sorry, African American.
many around here think it would be a setback if it weren't filled by an African American. the same people that are supposed to be beyond race.

Gee ain't that white of them?

442 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:37:55am

re: #419 Sharmuta

To me, it seems as if Dayffd might be on something with seeing 1 in 5 self-described conservatives voting for Obama...unless I missed something, either these people are delusional in defining themselves as conservatives or seeing Obama as a conservative choice superior to the 'moderate' McCain.

(Or perhaps this is all part of a conspiracy to remake the Republican party by figuring Obama will do another Carter - and in 2012 the Conservatives will return to power to clean up the mess...)

443 capitalist piglet  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:38:47am

Mr. "I Wanna Be President NOW!" did a radio address today.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that was something traditionally done by the sitting president. Am I mistaken?

This guy is like a little kid.

444 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:38:56am

wahabbi - send this link along to your adopted warrior:

Turkey Shoot

:D

445 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:39:15am

Iowahawk weighs in on the election:

As Vice President-Elect Joe Biden has repeatedly warned, there will be difficult times ahead and the programs will not always be popular, or even sane. But as we look out over the wreckage of bankrupt coal companies, nationalized banks, and hyperinflation, we can always look back with sustained pride on the great National Reconciliation of 2008. Call me an optimist, but I like to think when America's breadlines erupt into riots it will be because of our shared starvation, not the differences in our color.

446 MajorPribluda  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:39:17am

Night all. Gotta go. The time here is 00:08.

447 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:39:59am

re: #431 logboy

Alright, I should get something done today. Does anyone want to help me move some hardwood lumber?

If you were within driving distance, I can assure you, sir, that there is no thing, large or small that I would not do for you. I stand in awe of your sacrifice, and I take great personal pleasure in assisting veterans. I do so weekly as a volunteer at the VA.

448 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:40:23am

re: #442 Athos

(Or perhaps this is all part of a conspiracy to remake the Republican party by figuring Obama will do another Carter - and in 2012 the Conservatives will return to power to clean up the mess...)

Actually, I know some Repub. staffers who think exactly that.

449 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:41:14am

re: #439 Tigger2005

As someone above already said, it all depends on how you define "conservative!"
I have some black friends who call themselves conservative, e.g., and in some respects they might well be, but most of them still vote liberal.

450 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:41:20am

re: #444 Miss Trixie

wahabbi - send this link along to your adopted warrior:

Turkey Shoot

:D

Shit I started seeing double

451 Adrenalyn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:42:10am

re: #448 wahabicorridor

Actually, I know some Repub. staffers who think exactly that.

well, that is a huge and, to me, foolish risk to take

the left will NOT relinquish power easily
the media arm will get stronger
the tactics more forceful and ruthless

in other words, good luck with that

452 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:42:22am

Ack. Halftime's over and the Eskimos are leading by 6.

Phooey.

453 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:42:53am

re: #442 Athos

As much as it sucks to say, I am betting on the conservatives who are like...If I have to take 75% crap in a republican nominee, or 100% crap in the democrat nominee... I will go with the 100% crap democrat so that we can 'teach' the party a lesson, and hope it will go back to 'pure' 65% crap that we were used to...

They showed us didn't they? I would take a dose of 10% more crap...since we already are tolerating 65%...

(I would give Reagan a 15% crap rating on the political crap scale since he passed 'amnesty 1'...(15% is only 15 points away from George Washington proportions at this point...)

454 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:42:59am

re: #450 Nevergiveup

Shit I started seeing double

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

455 Truck Monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:43:16am

re: #449 wolfie

As someone above already said, it all depends on how you define "conservative!"
I have some black friends who call themselves conservative, e.g., and in some respects they might well be, but most of them still vote liberal.

The "true" black church is very conservative. I don't imagine they vote conservative though either.

456 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:43:31am

re: #448 wahabicorridor

Actually, I know some Repub. staffers who think exactly that.

My hubby thinks exactly that.

It's why he was not going to vote. He doesn't like McCain at all, and figured 4 years of Obama would be as enlightening as 4 years of Carter. And then no Dem would be elected for the next 30 years.

457 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:43:46am

re: #444 Miss Trixie

wahabbi - send this link along to your adopted warrior:

Turkey Shoot

:D

Oh dear. I could get addicted to that. Score was 2002.

458 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:44:21am

re: #439 Tigger2005

What the fuck kind of conservative votes to kill America?


My family cast their first even Dem votes this year for Obama. I couldn't talk them out of it. I didn't vote at all this year because I felt both tickets were dangerously unqualified.

459 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:45:05am

re: #449 wolfie

As someone above already said, it all depends on how you define "conservative!"
I have some black friends who call themselves conservative, e.g., and in some respects they might well be, but most of them still vote liberal.

And I know many black folks whose values are just as conservative as mine . . . but they will vote Dem every time. I don't understand it, unless it's just a long ingrained habit of some sort.

460 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:45:13am

re: #447 rawmuse

My 16 yr old son started volunteer work at the VA a couple of years ago.
It has been the best thing he's ever done...for his own self-improvement, I mean. He has learned sooo much.

461 Syrah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:45:16am

re: #449 wolfie

As someone above already said, it all depends on how you define "conservative!"
I have some black friends who call themselves conservative, e.g., and in some respects they might well be, but most of them still vote liberal.

They still see themselves as being net-beneficiaries of what the left will give them. Until that changes, they will not vote conservative.

462 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:45:45am

re: #452 Miss Trixie

Racist!
/

463 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:46:03am

re: #456 reine.de.tout

My hubby thinks exactly that.

It's why he was not going to vote. He doesn't like McCain at all, and figured 4 years of Obama would be as enlightening as 4 years of Carter. And then no Dem would be elected for the next 30 years.

Well, they may turn out to be right - but's it's one helluva risk to take if you ask me. Altho' I must say at the time I had these conversations, Hillary was still expected to be the Dem nominee.

464 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:46:58am

Jebus, THIS is disturbing.

I think it's supposed to be a hot dog ...

465 Mel Lono  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:47:33am

re: #378 wahabicorridor

Looking at the mess the country is in, I'm grateful it's the Dems who are now on the hot seat.

Which is what I was saying months ago. Remember lizards, Obama's election is all my fault since I wouldn't vote for McCain here in CA, where even the electoral votes out here didn't matter. So don't feel bad, just get to work finding good, loyal, conservative representatives in your district that we can send to DC the next time around.

466 Truck Monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:47:38am

re: #461 Syrah

They still see themselves as being net-beneficiaries of what the left will give them. Until that changes, they will not vote conservative.

When more than half of the electorate realize that they can vote themselves goodies from the treasury, the other half will be powerless to stop them.

467 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:15am

Ted Turner: Feeling Alone On The Range
Jane Fonda Says If He Needs Company, She'd Be There In A "Blue Minute"

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Brought tears to my eyes? Think when Jane was in Hanio she gave any free ones to the VC?

468 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:21am

re: #460 wolfie

I highly recommend it. I promise you that your entire definition of a "bad day" will change.

469 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:32am

re: #345 Nevergiveup

And even if they are, and I don't believe them, it is not Palin's fault. She was picked. She didn't barge her way onto the ticket. If it was a mistake to put her on the ticket, it was McCain's mistake and he should stand up like a man. Anyway the manner McCain ran his campaign, he wasn't gonna win this election anyway.

i hate the way they have turned on her. fair weather friends are the worst. they twist the knife. sarah was the best thing that happened to mccain's soggy old tired campaign. now they lose and look around for someone to put their frustration and anger on. fck em.
they are looking so much worse than she ever could no matter what they say abt. her.
fck em. did i mention that?

470 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:33am

re: #462 wolfie

Racist!
/

*snicker*

But ya gotta love those tight ends, toots! :D

/Did I just say that out loud?

471 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:36am

re: #464 Miss Trixie

it's obvious you've never seen a naked man.

472 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:44am

re: #466 Truck Monkey

When
more than half of the electorate realize that they can vote themselves
goodies from the treasury, the other half will be powerless to stop
them.

Someone once described democracy as 51% of the people agreeing to rob the other 49%.

473 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:48:58am

re: #461 Syrah

They still see themselves as being net-beneficiaries of what the left will give them. Until that changes, they will not vote conservative.

You know, I'm not convinced that is the case.

Among my coworkers, the blacks all felt as if they had worked hard and had succeeded (and they had!). They did not feel they "needed" anything from the government. But there was a strong feeling that the government should take care of those in need, even though they would not be the beneficiary because they were not in need.

Apart from that, the values they held dear - family and faith - were all very conservative values.

474 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:49:13am

I just had one of those, "Oh, duh!" moments in regards to BOzos plan for requiring students to volunteer.

"How would this not violate the 13th Amendment prohibition on involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime?"

Easy.

"You don't agree with our policy? You are guilty of treason. You are hereby sentenced to 100 hours of community service. Now get on the bus and drink your kool aid."

475 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:49:36am

re: #449 wolfie

As someone above already said, it all depends on how you define "conservative!"
I have some black friends who call themselves conservative, e.g., and in some respects they might well be, but most of them still vote liberal.

Oh yeah, and McCain wasn't liberal enough for them, so they vote for a goddamn socialist with crooked terrorist friends. It just makes me sick. Come on, all this crap about blaming McCain's campaign is bullshit. The in-the-tank media, money, and a goddamned stupid uninformed dumbass electorate won this thing for BHO.

476 Truck Monkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:50:34am

re: #472 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Someone once described democracy as 51% of the people agreeing to rob the other 49%.

I feel bad for my kids sake. Can you imagine a 70 or 80% top tax rate? Why work?

477 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:50:37am

re: #472 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Someone once described democracy as 51% of the people agreeing to rob the other 49%.

Except in this last election it was 52% agreeing to BE robbed.

478 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:50:57am

re: #442 Athos

There were rumblings that was exactly what some republicans were trying to do. Novak said it was coming from the Huckabee wing, and that 0bama would be punishment for our collective sins.

But then- I did ask a republican voting for 0bama what he was thinking, and he blamed creationism in the party for driving him away.

479 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:51:34am

re: #471 IslandLibertarian

it's obvious you've never seen a naked man.

To quote an elephant, "How do you eat with that thing?"

LOL!

480 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:52:07am

re: #475 Tigger2005

The in-the-tank media, money, and a goddamned stupid uninformed dumbass electorate won this thing for BHO.


Not really. You should talk to conservatives who voted for Obama. Many of the are intelligent and well informed. They'll tell you why they voted the way they did. You may not agree with them but they'll tell you if you listen to them.

481 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:52:41am

re: #467 Nevergiveup

Kind of hard to feel sympathy for the 'lonely' feelings of a man who lives on 2 million acres.

482 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:53:08am

re: #478 Sharmuta

But then- I did ask a republican voting for 0bama what he was thinking, and he blamed creationism in the party for driving him away.

oh for gawd's sake!

483 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:53:11am

re: #469 nyc redneck

i hate the way they have turned on her. fair weather friends are the worst. they twist the knife. sarah was the best thing that happened to mccain's soggy old tired campaign. now they lose and look around for someone to put their frustration and anger on. fck em.
they are looking so much worse than she ever could no matter what they say abt. her.
fck em. did i mention that?

They can only attack her on 'personal issues' / 'clothes'... they had nothing on her in terms of ideology. She was rock solid. This is just the damned Republican Blue Bloods that Iowahawk wrote about pissing on the 'hoi pinoy'/luddite conservatives / Republicans of America...and jumping ship to make friends with those in power now. Screw them and the yacht they came in on.

If McCain didn't have Palin...he wouldn't have broken even 100 electoral votes...

/no offense to sane lizards who own yachts...just the 'elite' attitude is what makes me miffed.

484 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:53:47am

Don't know if anyone saw this yet, but it's up on Drudge:

Washington Post admits is was biased for Obama.

485 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:54:16am

re: #461 Syrah

Yes! I agree. But there is also a large extra-rational, or even irrational, element to voting.
I remember my paternal grandmother, 1972, putting on her hat and white gloves, taking a taxi to her precinct in Charleston, SC, and calmly casting her ballot for George McGovern. By any criterion whatsoever, she was the most conservative woman you can imagine.
Why then McGovern? Because she would never, ever have voted for the party of Yankee occupation.
It takes forever for some people and groups to let go of their mythology.

486 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:54:52am

re: #484 Wyatt Earp

As if we needed a confession...

487 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:54:53am

re: #478 Sharmuta

There
were rumblings that was exactly what some republicans were trying to
do. Novak said it was coming from the Huckabee wing, and that 0bama
would be punishment for our collective sins.

But then- I did ask
a republican voting for 0bama what he was thinking, and he blamed
creationism in the party for driving him away.

There's a survival of the fittest joke in there somewhere.

488 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:54:58am

re: #484 Wyatt Earp

Don't know if anyone saw this yet, but it's up on Drudge:

Washington Post admits is was biased for Obama.

Yeah, floppingaces had it on the spinoffs

Too little
Too late
They still suck

489 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:55:44am

re: #466 Truck Monkey

When more than half of the electorate realize that they can vote themselves goodies from the treasury, the other half will be powerless to stop them.

Everybody realizes that. Some have the character to say, "no." Or the knowledge to understand what will happen if they keep voting themselves money.

We have to stop this. We have to. I can't live in this country the way it's going, people. I can't stand to think of my nieces and nephews and their children growing up in a country like this. We have to fight like hell, and win. If I can't find any hope, I'm afraid I'm going to lose it.

490 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:56:11am

re: #488 wahabicorridor

Yeah, floppingaces had it on the spinoffs

Too little
Too late
They still suck

Agreed on all counts. I just think it's a riot that they publish this on November 9th. Despicable people.

491 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:56:17am

re: #484 Wyatt Earp

Don't know if anyone saw this yet, but it's up on Drudge:

Washington Post admits is was biased for Obama.

Lets file that one under "shockers".

492 Syrah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:56:41am

re: #466 Truck Monkey

When more than half of the electorate realize that they can vote themselves goodies from the treasury, the other half will be powerless to stop them.

We can go on strike.

493 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:56:45am

re: #480 Killgore Trout

Not really. You should talk to conservatives who voted for Obama. Many of the are intelligent and well informed. They'll tell you why they voted the way they did. You may not agree with them but they'll tell you if you listen to them.

Why don't you tell me then, if you've already listened to them?

I listened to Colin Powell. His explanation made no sense.

494 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:56:56am

re: #480 Killgore Trout

Not really. You should talk to conservatives who voted for Obama. Many of the are intelligent and well informed. They'll tell you why they voted the way they did. You may not agree with them but they'll tell you if you listen to them.

I think a lot of folks were angry at the McCain nomination, since McCain is not really particularly conservative.

495 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:57:24am

re: #484 Wyatt Earp

Don't know if anyone saw this yet, but it's up on Drudge:

Washington Post admits is was biased for Obama.

That just tops off the day with human fecal matter Chris Matthews officially offering his role as mouth piece / chief propagandist for the voluntary state controlled media to make Obama's presidency a 'success'!

CHANGE!

496 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:57:58am

re: #386 Killian Bundy

Brace yourself, you're not going to believe this.

Bill Ayers: Becoming a target of 'terrorist' attack

/yes boys and girls, it's Bill Ayers, the victim of terrorism, in his own words

I'm looking at the column, and it mostly just strikes me as him whining about his hate-mail and about the general poor treatment by the public and in the political realm. I see nothing to suggest he's really been the victim of any kind of literal terrorist attack, such as having bombs thrown at him or something... he's just suddenly started being badmouthed. A lot.

Then I get to this bit at the bottom of his article:

Perhaps we might think of ourselves not as passive consumers of politics, but as fully mobilized political actors.

Perhaps we might think of our various efforts now, as we did then, as more than a single campaign, but rather as our movement-in-the-making.

We might find hope in the growth of opposition to war and occupation worldwide.

Or we might be inspired by the growing movements for reparations and prison abolition, or the rising immigrant rights movement and the stirrings of working people everywhere, or by gay and lesbian and transgender people courageously pressing for full recognition.

Yet hope – my hope, our hope – resides in a simple self-evident truth: the future is unknown, and it is also entirely unknowable.

History is always in the making. It's up to us. It is up to me and to you. Nothing is predetermined. That makes our moment on this Earth both hopeful and all the more urgent – we must find ways to become real actors, to become authentic subjects in our own history.

In this time of new beginnings and rising expectations, it is even more urgent that we figure out how to become the people we have been waiting to be.

(Emphasis mine)

Abolishing prisons? Where would we put the murders, rapists, and other hardened criminals that continue to exist and will always exist until Satan is vanquished off the Earth?

And by immigrant rights movement, who's willing to bet he means anyone who can sneak past the border? If he'd said "legal immigrant rights," that'd be a different matter, but these lefties don't seem to think it matters whether an immigrant comes here by legal means or not, just that they ARRIVE should be enough.

As for gay and lesbian... well, they're likely still only 1% of the population, if even that, and yet they're paraded around by the Left as if they were some vast group that the entire world is going out of its way to make miserable... but they're really just a tool being used by the Left to bring about their OWN agenda... and will likely be thrown under the bus as well when it suits the Left.

As for "the opposition to war and occupation worldwide," I guess we need to trot out that article about sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs again.

497 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:58:06am

re: #482 wahabicorridor

oh for gawd's sake!

Sad to say I think there's a certain amount of truth there. The Republican party has to reduce the religious extremist image and focus purely on policies of personal and fiscal responsibility. Else the young and people of faiths other than of Judeo-Christian heritage will remain out of reach.

498 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:58:09am

So that is what they meant when they said Obama's birth certificate was "sealed".

499 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:58:36am

The Diatha Harris has picked up steam. There's even a story in Russia.

500 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:58:49am

re: #489 Tigger2005

I think the way you fight it is to prepare for the inevitable calamity, it is coming, and may have been inevitable regardless of the election outcome.

You can't fight a sitting president or the State. They have unlimited resources.
What have you got?

501 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:59:26am

re: #483 Oh no...Sand People!

They can only attack her on 'personal issues' / 'clothes'... they had nothing on her in terms of ideology. She was rock solid. This is just the damned Republican Blue Bloods that Iowahawk wrote about pissing on the 'hoi pinoy'/luddite conservatives / Republicans of America...and jumping ship to make friends with those in power now. Screw them and the yacht they came in on.

If McCain didn't have Palin...he wouldn't have broken even 100 electoral votes...

/no offense to sane lizards who own yachts...just the 'elite' attitude is what makes me miffed.

the multitudes came to cheer her.
the mccain camp loved her then.
and now they turn on her when she couldn't single handedly pull that listing
ship to port.
they really need to stop and think abt. how bad they look. how indecent.
how petty.

502 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:59:38am

What needs to happen first, is that some state Republican Parties need to revamp their rules. dems and indys should NEVER be allowed to vote in Republican primaries. That is why we were forced to have McCain as our nominee.

503 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:00:09pm

re: #461 Syrah

They still see themselves as being net-beneficiaries of what the left will give them. Until that changes, they will not vote conservative.

That fits what Alexis de Tocqueville said - "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."...or like that YouTube where the young person was all excited with Obama because she would no longer have to worry about paying for gas, rent, food, etc...

There is a power about promising entitlements - in CA, almost every major spending proposition passed regardless of the fact that the State cannot afford any addition spending or debt. The appeal goes beyond common sense.

504 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:00:10pm

re: #502 newsjunkie_ky

What needs to happen first, is that some state Republican Parties need to revamp their rules. dems and indys should NEVER be allowed to vote in Republican primaries. That is why we were forced to have McCain as our nominee.

Absolutely.

505 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:01:17pm

re: #495 Oh no...Sand People!

That just tops off the day with human fecal matter Chris Matthews officially offering his role as mouth piece / chief propagandist for the voluntary state controlled media to make Obama's presidency a 'success'!

CHANGE!

How can he do his job with the "tingling" down his leg?

506 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:01:34pm

re: #495 Oh no...Sand People!

That just tops off the day with human fecal matter Chris Matthews officially offering his role as mouth piece / chief propagandist for the voluntary state controlled media to make Obama's presidency a 'success'!

CHANGE!

See I don't get it. I am an American first, Second, and third. Then a Republican somewhere way down on the list. Matthews, the WashPost, NYT, and all the other ass-hats are Democrats first and the nearest they get to America is when they are watching "American Graffiti".

507 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:01:36pm

re: #480 Killgore Trout

Not really. You should talk to conservatives who voted for Obama. Many of the are intelligent and well informed. They'll tell you why they voted the way they did. You may not agree with them but they'll tell you if you listen to them.

I spoke with one. The person gave me this:

"I really liked who Obama surrounded himself with..."

Jaw dropped. Well, being that this person was 'intelligent'...I know for a fact the reasons for voting Obama are only 2.

1. Most DEFINITELY not 'well informed'. Most likely busy with 'life'. Working 9-5. Busy with family. Politics is only an after thought and nothing that's important. Would rather follow stats on sports...etc. Only gets the MSM in the long run in snippets and sound bites.
2. Teaching a lesson to the Repubs.

The rest just did as you did, and didn't vote. That's it.

508 CharlieBravo  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:01:46pm

I live in Hawaii and I don't recognize that sea creature, an obvious fake.

509 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:01:48pm

re: #502 newsjunkie_ky

What needs to happen first, is that some state Republican Parties need to revamp their rules. dems and indys should NEVER be allowed to vote in Republican primaries. That is why we were forced to have McCain as our nominee.

great idea. enough of that.

510 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:01:53pm

re: #505 Wyatt Earp

We'll have to start calling him Chris Catheter.

511 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:02:07pm

re: #475 Tigger2005

Oh yeah, and McCain wasn't liberal enough for them, so they vote for a goddamn socialist with crooked terrorist friends. It just makes me sick. Come on, all this crap about blaming McCain's campaign is bullshit. The in-the-tank media, money, and a goddamned stupid uninformed dumbass electorate won this thing for BHO.

I couldn't agree with you more. I believe that McCain did the best he could and better than most (if not all) of his GOP rivals would have done.
And I think your explanation of the win is spot on. The only thing that I would add is that I believe what Geraldine Ferraro said was right. Barack Obama is where he is today because he is black. That provided the decisive edge in the Image & Excitement competition. If he had been white,...nada.

512 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:02:16pm

re: #482 wahabicorridor

oh for gawd's sake!

Goddamn straight. I doubt any of Killgore's "conservative" Obama voters would be able to give me any explanation that would make any sense at all. It would all be something like "Palin is so stupid" or some shortsighted single-issue crap.

513 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:02:17pm

Shameless blog pimiping.

An Open Letter to the United States Senators of the 111th Congress.

Honorable Senator,

This open letter is addressed to Senators who believe their oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America is above party politics, personal prestige, or career advancement.

Once again a few men and women stand upon a pivot of history. Once again a mere handful will determine the fate of nations and people. This time the burden falls on your shoulders, the decisions you make in the next two years will determine whether the Constitution of the United States of America stands, or is irreparably changed.

You, a United States Senator sought high office. You took an oath to uphold, defend, and protect the ideals set forth in the Constitution. You’ve chosen this place and time to serve, history and posterity calls you now to do your sworn duty.

President Elect Obama and the Democrat party have set forth the agenda. Many parts of this agenda are not only in direct opposition to the Constitution, they undermine the spirit, values, and intent of the Constitution.

It is your sworn duty to stand in opposition to this agenda. This agenda is an assault on Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. The assault on our foundational rights includes but is not limited to direct legislative, administrative and judicial restrictions on the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, and the inalienable right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

I will be emailing and snail mailing the whole thing to the Senators of the 111th.

514 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:02:54pm

re: #497 esch

Sad to say I think there's a certain amount of truth there. The Republican party has to reduce the religious extremist image and focus purely on policies of personal and fiscal responsibility. Else the young and people of faiths other than of Judeo-Christian heritage will remain out of reach.

I take your point, but voting a commie rat bastard into office is no way to address that issue.

515 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:03:13pm
516 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:03:46pm

re: #493 Tigger2005

Hitch, Buckley jr. and my family all drew a line on Palin. They felt she was dangerously unqualified. They didn't judge Obama's inexperience as harshly as I did but in Obama's defense he did got to law school. That does demonstrate some level of intelligence. Palin's folksy charm didn't appeal to everybody. In fact it was a turn off to a lot of people. I know people here love her dearly but the rest of the country doesn't like her so much.

517 Wyatt Earp  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:03:54pm

re: #510 esch

We'll have to start calling him Chris Catheter.

He'll go on TV and scream, "Yes, yes" a la Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally.

Oh, and OT, but this was my 1,000th comment. Whoo hoo!

518 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:04:17pm

re: #434 IslandLibertarian

Bill Wilson?
/ok, ok, just funnin'

No way. Tradition 10--no politics.
But Bill W. & Dr. Bob are eligible to vote in Chicago.

519 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:04:25pm
520 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:04:54pm

chrissy matthews wants to intern for the Zero administration. He wants the Lewinsky position.

521 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:05:11pm

re: #514 wahabicorridor

Absolutely.

522 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:05:51pm

re: #515 jonturner

/probably don't post it, subject is LGF verboten

523 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:06:45pm

re: #494 reine.de.tout

I think a lot of folks were angry at the McCain nomination, since McCain is not really particularly conservative.


I wasn't happy about the McCain nomination either but not for his lack of conservative credentials. He voted against the Bush tax cuts twice, he's a fan of open boarders, and he admitted that he "doesn't really understand economics". He was a bad choice and I don't think his Palin pick was a smart move.

524 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:07:07pm

re: #502 newsjunkie_ky

What needs to happen first, is that some state Republican Parties need to revamp their rules. dems and indys should NEVER be allowed to vote in Republican primaries. That is why we were forced to have McCain as our nominee.

I agree...that has to be the first step. Let the Republican party choose their nominee and fight / debate the issue of moderate vs conservativism within the party during this process.

525 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:07:13pm
526 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:07:24pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Hitch, Buckley jr. and my family all drew a line on Palin. They felt she was dangerously unqualified. They didn't judge Obama's inexperience as harshly as I did but in Obama's defense he did got to law school. That does demonstrate some level of intelligence. Palin's folksy charm didn't appeal to everybody. In fact it was a turn off to a lot of people. I know people here love her dearly but the rest of the country doesn't like her so much.


All idiots.

527 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:04pm

re: #519 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Tell Souter to talk to the walrus.

/probably don't quote comments headed for the scrap heap, Stinky is blocking accounts over it as of last night

528 kynna  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:11pm

True conversation from Friday:

"I'm better than you" A classmate to my niece.

"Why?" My niece.

"Because I'm black and you're white." The classmate.

"That's racist." My niece.

"Only white people are racist." The classmate.

I told my sister if it happens again they need to have a meeting with the principal and nip it in the bud. You know my niece is not the only other kid this girl has said this to. This kind of nonsense is going to have a backlash that sets this country on fire.

Ironic that electing the First Black President has set our race relations back thirty years.

My question is: If having a black president makes black people better than white people, does that mean that white people have been better all these years? Answer: Of course not.

This is why all the exultation of Obama's skin color disturbs me. It sends an unintended message which will wipe away any symbolic good the choice might ever have offered.

529 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:14pm

re: #519 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Tell Souter to talk to the walrus.

Souter can have it when it passes.

530 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:18pm

Without Palin, McCain would have gotten about 70 electoral votes, imho.
She WAS the ticket.

531 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:31pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Hitch, Buckley jr. and my family all drew a line on Palin. They felt she was dangerously unqualified. They didn't judge Obama's inexperience as harshly as I did but in Obama's defense he did got to law school. That does demonstrate some level of intelligence. Palin's folksy charm didn't appeal to everybody. In fact it was a turn off to a lot of people. I know people here love her dearly but the rest of the country doesn't like her so much.

Oh, BULLSHIT, Killgore. You think it was only Lizards at those rallies? You think McCain did as well as he did IN SPITE OF Palin? And Obama's getting into law school is no defense, because he did not earn it with his grades from Columbia.

532 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:41pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

I know people here love her dearly but the rest of the country doesn't like her so much.

She drew bigger crowds than anyone but the Messiah.

But...mebbe yer right.

533 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:08:54pm

re: #520 newsjunkie_ky

chrissy matthews wants to intern for the Zero administration. He wants the Lewinsky position.

BWAAAHAAAHAAA!

Channeling Clinton's voice holding his cigar, "It tastes good.."

534 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:09:13pm

re: #515 jonturner

SUPREME COURT JUSTICE SOUTER ORDERS OBAMA TO PRODUCE VAULT COPY OF BIRTH CERTIFICATE BY DECEMBER 1

Whaaa?

535 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:09:35pm

re: #515 jonturner


Really, don't post that crap. Perhaps you missed the point of the whole thread. We're making fun of the "conspiracy theories", not supporting them.

536 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:10:24pm

re: #458 Killgore Trout

My family cast their first even Dem votes this year for Obama. I couldn't talk them out of it. I didn't vote at all this year because I felt both tickets were dangerously unqualified.

I can't understand this philosophy at all. Do you think because you didn't personally vote, you can disassociate yourself from the outcome? You will still be impacted.

537 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:10:36pm

re: #497 esch

Sad to say I think there's a certain amount of truth there. The Republican party has to reduce the religious extremist image and focus purely on policies of personal and fiscal responsibility. Else the young and people of faiths other than of Judeo-Christian heritage will remain out of reach.

Exactly. I think their means of showing their disaffection for the party is flawed, but not any more than republicans who decided to stay home to "teach a lesson" to the party.

538 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:10:49pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

"The rest of the country" didn't like her so much? Let's look at that. The democrats weren't going to like her no matter what, because she is a conservative and because she energized the conservative base in a way McCain couldn't. They were predisposed to dislike her.

But Rasmussen has her approval rating amongst republicans at 91%, including 69% who said they greatly approved of her. That's two points more than John McCain's total approval rating of 67%.

539 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:11:13pm

Don't post or repost birth certificate links.

/Charles was really adamant about that last night

540 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:11:19pm

re: #502 newsjunkie_ky

Possibly but in hind sight I don't think there were any good choices. I loved Rudy but he had too many ex-wives and personal scandals to make it through the election. Anti-mormon bigotry would have sunk Mitt. Duncan Hunter never picked up an steam. After that it was just assorted nuts like Huckabee and Ron Paul.

541 jonturner  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:11:46pm

re: #525 jcm

Thanks, That's just the sort of info I was hoping for. I didn't realize you could search SC writings, directly. Would a declaration from one Justice appear on the site?

#522 Killian Bundy
I see. I didn't realize that was the case, considering the thread is taking a poke at the subject... Thank you for the warning. If I've broken the rules, it was unintentional. Mea Culpa.

542 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:12:08pm

re: #539 Killian Bundy

Don't post or repost birth certificate links.

/Charles was really adamant about that last night

I missed it. What happened?

543 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:12:18pm

re: #519 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Tell Souter to talk to the walrus.

Does the walrus have a hand? :D

544 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:12:37pm

re: #539 Killian Bundy

Don't post or repost birth certificate links.

/Charles was really adamant about that last night

Whoopsie! Didn't get the memo - you can delete my comment if you need to, Charles.

545 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:13:13pm

re: #540 Killgore Trout

I had my heart set on Fred Thompson - guess he just didn't have that fire in his belly.

546 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:13:44pm

re: #536 Outrider

I can't understand this philosophy at all. Do you think because you didn't personally vote, you can disassociate yourself from the outcome? You will still be impacted.

He thinks it somehow makes him not responsible for whatever may happen. But his failure to vote for McCain/Palin might as well have been a vote for Obama.

I WILL hold you responsible, Killgore, as I will those others who did not vote, and those who voted for Obama. But it's nice that YOUR conscience is somehow clear.

547 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:13:47pm

re: #512 Tigger2005

Goddamn straight. I doubt any of Killgore's "conservative" Obama voters would be able to give me any explanation that would make any sense at all. It would all be something like "Palin is so stupid" or some shortsighted single-issue crap.

Something based on MSM image & sound-bite propaganda, rather than on actual facts, policies, or philosophy.

548 jonturner  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:13:50pm

Charles, Stinky?

Can I get a cleanup on Aisle 515? (& 525) I screwed up. Sorry!

549 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:14:03pm

re: #526 newsjunkie_ky

All idiots.


Are you calling my family idiots? I'm the only one without a PhD. They all spent their entire careers working for the Federal Government and military. You can imagine that your smarter than everybody else if it makes you feel better but it's not reality is it?

550 Mel Lono  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:14:27pm

re: #534 Miss Trixie

You just ruined my lunch!

551 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:15:27pm

Yeah, thanks Washington Post for that analysis of your coverage,

I sent them an email (as if they cared what I wrote) with this quote from Victor Davis Hanson:

The mainstream press should have learned that lesson, once they blew up their credibility in the past election by morphing into the Team Obama press agency.
There will come a time in the year ahead when either Obama's unexamined past will come back to haunt him, or his inexperience and tentativeness in foreign affairs will be embarrassingly apparent, or his European-socialist agenda for domestic programs simply won't work. And as public opinion falls, what will MSNBC, the New York Times, the editors of Newsweek, a Chris Matthews or the anchors at the major networks say?
Not much—since they will have one of two non-choices: (1) either they will begin scrambling to offer supposed disinterested criticism, which will be met with the public's, "Why should we begin believing you now?" or "Why didn't you tell this before?", or (2), They can continue as state-sanctioned megaphones of the Obama administration in the manner that they did during the campaign. They will lose either way and remain without credibility.
[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

552 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:15:33pm

re: #548 jonturner

Charles, Stinky?

Can I get a cleanup on Aisle 515? (& 525) I screwed up. Sorry!

Just report yourself - click on the exclamation point next to your post...

553 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:16:14pm

re: #544 Miss Trixie

Whoopsie! Didn't get the memo - you can delete my comment if you need to, Charles.

DON'T SAY THAT! ! ! Charles has been known to take everyone literally when they say that!

554 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:16:19pm

re: #545 wahabicorridor

Oh, yeah. I left out Fred. Fred had the folksy charm that conservatives love so much. It wasn't just his lack of passion. He really was an empty suit with minimal experience or credentials. He would have had a very tough time in a general election.

555 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:16:38pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Each is entitled to their own opinion regarding qualifications towards the WH. By some of the measures today, Lincoln might not be considered qualified.

Perhaps I have a bias as I am a small town elected councilmember - but I personally believe that the experience Palin gained in her political career is far more viable than Obama's attending of law school and lack of true executive level leadership experience...BS regarding running the $600M campaign as executive experience included.

Any VP will have some impact on a ticket - but to me, the selection of Palin brought more energy and money into a failing and fading McCain ticket. Perhaps a more traditional pick like Romney would have done more - or ticked off fewer conservatives - but ultimately the campaign failed for much of the same reason the Bush administration enjoys 25-28% approval ratings - the inability to articulate and communicate to the people.

If a Romney or Huckabee or a Hunter or a Guiliani were the VP nod, there still would have been the defections to vote for Obama from the right - for principled reasons or for the hope that since the country survived Carter and that paved the way for 20 years of Republican leadership out of 28 history could repeat itself.

556 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:17:09pm

re: #549 Killgore Trout

Are you calling my family idiots? I'm the only one without a PhD. They all spent their entire careers working for the Federal Government and military. You can imagine that your smarter than everybody else if it makes you feel better but it's not reality is it?


YES!

557 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:17:21pm

"I don't like McCain or Palin, so, I won't vote, or I'll vote to turn the country over to a radical Marxist who may very well damage it beyond all repair, and who with 100% certainty WILL damage it to the point where getting it back to any semblance of normalcy will take two or three generations."

Of course! It makes so much sense.

558 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:17:51pm

re: #554 Killgore Trout

Fred was a 2 term Senator, sat on the Watergate hearings.
Compares pretty favorably to BHO, if you ask me.

559 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:17:54pm

re: #545 wahabicorridor

I had my heart set on Fred Thompson - guess he just didn't have that fire in his belly.

When it comes down to it - it doesn't seem as if McCain did either.

560 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:18:24pm
561 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:19:01pm

re: #549 Killgore Trout

Are you calling my family idiots? I'm the only one without a PhD. They all spent their entire careers working for the Federal Government and military. You can imagine that your smarter than everybody else if it makes you feel better but it's not reality is it?

"Smart" people are often the ones who do the most idiotic things. They're better at rationalizing it.

562 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:19:17pm

re: #555 Athos


If a Romney or Huckabee or a Hunter or a Guiliani were the VP nod, there still would have been the defections to vote for Obama from the right

Probably yes. At least they were all serious politicians. Defections would have happened anyways.

563 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:19:22pm

re: #556 newsjunkie_ky

YES!

Come on now. No need for that. We can disagree and discuss stuff with out insulting each other, and families should be treated kindly after all.

564 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:19:45pm

Athos,

My husband kept saying that through the whole election:

"Does McCain really want to win?"

because it seemed like he wasn't really trying.

565 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:20:06pm

Comments with links to 'birth certificate' conspiracy theories are going to be deleted.

566 FrogMarch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:20:07pm

re: #540 Killgore Trout

Possibly but in hind sight I don't think there were any good choices. I loved Rudy but he had too many ex-wives and personal scandals to make it through the election. Anti-mormon bigotry would have sunk Mitt. Duncan Hunter never picked up an steam. After that it was just assorted nuts like Huckabee and Ron Paul.

Is anyone bothered by the fact that Democrats are allowed as many skeletons in the closet as possible? (with Obama, we know the run down...) Yet Republicans are expected to be pure as the wind driven snow.

Behind ever double standard is an un-confessed single standard.

If it were constitutional - Bill Clinton could run for president again - and WIN. Even with Lewinski and pardon-gate etc...
Rudy had a few too many wives - so he's no good.

567 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:20:09pm

STOP REPOSTING BC LINKS. THEY WILL GET DELETED.

568 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:20:12pm

The best thing that BHO has going for him is, he has NO record.
He has nothing to criticize, or next to nothing. Precious little.
That is all about to change.

569 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:20:20pm

re: #548 jonturner

Charles, Stinky?

Can I get a cleanup on Aisle 515? (& 525) I screwed up. Sorry!

Is this where you got your nic?

Cracks me up every time. :D

570 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:21:03pm

re: #567 logboy

STOP REPOSTING BC LINKS. THEY WILL GET DELETED.

WOW! You can link to things Before Christ? I am impressed!
/;-P

571 Mel Lono  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:21:25pm

re: #560 gregg

Think of it, President BidenClinton.

If the election results go uncertified and we start over.

572 IslandLibertarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:21:51pm

re: #508 CharlieBravo

I live in Hawaii and I don't recognize that sea creature, an obvious fake.

what sea creature?

573 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:21:53pm

re: #561 Tigger2005

That mentality is exactly why I expect 8 years of Obama. Republicans aren't ready to listen to why they lost this time. You'll listen sooner or later but it's going to take time. Run Palin for Prez next time, go ahead. Unlike the rest of my family I'm not a conservative or a Republican. I have no problem voting Dem.

574 wiffersnapper  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:21:58pm

I can haz vote back plz?

575 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:21:59pm

One thing I fault the entire RNC for in this election was their inability to translate congress' abysmally low approval ratings into a coherent message. Since Nancy Pelosi and her cohorts took over in January 2007, the lack of meaningful legislation passed has been dismal. And her promise of "the most ethical congress in history" is a joke.

But where were the ads pointing this out? Where was this message?

Clean out the entire upper echelon of RNC leadership, I say. Get some new blood in, folks who won't stand around with their thumbs up their rear ends when there is an election to be fought and won.

576 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:22:13pm

re: #538 Intrepid

You may judge the power of Palin's appeal bythe MSM's and the ruling class's determination to destroy her by any means necessary.

Dirty little secret:
Those who detest Palin don't like Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder much either.

577 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:22:18pm

re: #553 NomadOfNorad

DON'T SAY THAT! ! ! Charles has been known to take everyone literally when they say that!

I meant the comment where I quoted jonturner - shuld have been more clear to Charles. Apologies.

578 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:22:20pm

re: #570 jcm

WOW! You can link to things Before Christ? I am impressed!
/;-P

Pretty sure that it was referenced in Back to the Future IV.

579 abolitionist  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:22:47pm

re: #553 NomadOfNorad

DON'T SAY THAT! ! ! Charles has been known to take everyone literally when they say that!

He said comment, not account.

580 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:22:48pm

re: #566 FrogMarch

There's certainly a double standard, no doubt about it.

581 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:22:50pm

re: #502 newsjunkie_ky

What needs to happen first, is that some state Republican Parties need to revamp their rules. dems and indys should NEVER be allowed to vote in Republican primaries. That is why we were forced to have McCain as our nominee.


Exactly right, the Independents gave us McCain in open primaries.
Romney was winning the closed primaries. Maybe Mitt would not have won either with the media acting like a poms squad for Obama, but you have to know that he would have run a more energetic campaign.

582 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:24:14pm

re: #576 wolfie

You may judge the power of Palin's appeal bythe MSM's and the ruling class's determination to destroy her by any means necessary.

You're not judged by the stature of your friends, you're judged by the stature of your enemies. She's doing great in my book.

The Republican reform firestorm is starting.

583 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:25:00pm

#581 Maybe Mitt would not have won either with the media acting like a poms squad for Obama, but you have to know that he would have run a more energetic campaign.


Plus...maybe Mitt could have had a more coherent message on the bailout. It might have helped at that point to be an "outsider".

584 Syrah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:25:02pm

re: #473 reine.de.tout

You know, I'm not convinced that is the case.

Among my coworkers, the blacks all felt as if they had worked hard and had succeeded (and they had!). They did not feel they "needed" anything from the government. But there was a strong feeling that the government should take care of those in need, even though they would not be the beneficiary because they were not in need.

Apart from that, the values they held dear - family and faith - were all very conservative values.

The benefit that these people receive is the feeling that they have "done their part" to help those in need by putting the problem in the hands of government. For them, voting for the left absolves them of their personal responsibility to help their neighbors. They vote to make "people in need" someone else's problem.

585 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:26:00pm

re: #573 Killgore Trout

That mentality is exactly why I expect 8 years of Obama. Republicans aren't ready to listen to why they lost this time. You'll listen sooner or later but it's going to take time. Run Palin for Prez next time, go ahead. Unlike the rest of my family I'm not a conservative or a Republican. I have no problem voting Dem.

Killgore, if you're not a conservative nor a republican, why the heck do you care who the GOP puts on their ticket?

586 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:26:07pm
The Republican reform firestorm is starting.

Precisely my thoughts. Out of the ashes ...

587 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:26:23pm

I talked to Steve Biegun, the former Bush NSC aid who briefed Sarah Palin on foreign policy, and he considers the leaks against her on the international stuff "absurd."

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

Finally an authoritative source standing up and denying!

588 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:27:07pm

I have a friend who is enamoured with Obama's health care policy.
She thinks we need to "help people".

589 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:27:13pm

re: #562 Killgore Trout

Huckabee is a "serious poltician" and Palin isn't?
ROFLMAO

590 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:29:11pm

re: #575 Intrepid

During last summer, I had a small meeting with my Congressman on some local issues. At the end we talked about the upcoming election and what was needed. I couldn't stress enough the need to get out and communicate and in particular highlight / focus on the track record of Pelosi / Reid to the American people in the light of the message on 'Change' - that 'Change' isn't always for the better. He wasn't very receptive at first but did get it.

Unfortunately, that common sense message never seemed to gain resonance with the leadership...which is why the leadership has to change before we can move forward again. They didn't make that change after 2006...and I am afraid they will not make that change now.

Once that is done - then the message needs to be clarified and the fringe viewpoints excluded to where they belong - on the fringe.

591 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:29:43pm

re: #565 Charles

Comments with links to 'birth certificate' conspiracy theories are going to be deleted.

But Charles, I have the real deal! Bigfoot's cousin gave me this link!

592 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:29:50pm

re: #588 the other Amy

Oh, like they tried in HI? It's already bankrupt.

Ration the sick people to death and you'll have no more sick people. GREAT SOLUTION, IDIOTS!

Obamacare will kill me. I'm making a bumper sticker.

593 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:29:53pm

re: #583 the other Amy

#581 Maybe Mitt would not have won either with the media acting like a poms squad for Obama, but you have to know that he would have run a more energetic campaign.


Plus...maybe Mitt could have had a more coherent message on the bailout. It might have helped at that point to be an "outsider".


Yup

594 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:30:01pm

re: #516 Killgore Trout

Hitch, Buckley jr. and my family all drew a line on Palin. They felt she was dangerously unqualified. They didn't judge Obama's inexperience as harshly as I did but in Obama's defense he did got to law school. That does demonstrate some level of intelligence. Palin's folksy charm didn't appeal to everybody. In fact it was a turn off to a lot of people. I know people here love her dearly but the rest of the country doesn't like her so much.

Not really directed at you, just want to emphasize a disturbing principle.

As an attempted church going type I have had the 'opportunity' to sit through many a sermon/yarn/spiel/speech/pitch...whatever you want to define it. There are moments where what is being said is AMAZING just full on BRILLIANT, quite possibly some of the most 'substance' and 'common sense' I have ever heard outside of LGF Then I hear, "boy, that was sure a 'dry' speaker. What a drag... I couldn't stay awake...whew!"

So I guess the point is... What Palin was saying was rock steady on all points...up until McCain tried to get her to swing Liberal...when 'rhetoric / oratory / special effects / Star Wars: Attack of the Clones' is more important than 'substance'... we are screwed. I am still waiting on my refund from Lucas on that one...I will not see the final episode either. Never.

So uh...that' it. Just a point I wanted to type about.

595 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:30:16pm

For what it is worth?

The major significance between a Democrat winning elections and Republicans winning?

The Democrats always scream fraud! Cheating! Stealing!

The Republicans look inside the party, sometimes wrongly, and work it from that angle. We knew there was widespread fraud, but we will not (rightly) push that argument.

I'm not sure "eating your own" is the proper way to approach it though. Everyone constantly looks for that magic bullet that explains a loss, instead of correctly assuming there were a multitude of reasons for an Obama win.

596 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:30:57pm

Ok, Mr Obama, here we go. What are you going to do about this? Will you sit down and meet with the leader - sans preconditions - of this "tiny" country?

Iran blasts Obama's Nuclear Criticisms

597 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:30:58pm

re: #587 Nevergiveup

I talked to Steve Biegun, the former Bush NSC aid who briefed Sarah Palin on foreign policy, and he considers the leaks against her on the international stuff "absurd."

[Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

Finally an authoritative source standing up and denying!

McCain is the authoritative person who needs to stand up, deny, and then condemn - using names if he knows them - those who are resorting to this petty behavior.

598 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:31:15pm

Athos,

do you think "nationalizing" the House elections should be done?
Sorta like what Newt Gingrich did in 1994?

599 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:31:16pm

re: #579 abolitionist

He said comment, not account.

Sorry. For some reason when I read Miss Trixie's post, my brain saw "account" there even though, looking back at her post, I now see she did, indeed, say "comment."

Color me sheepish... :-%P%

/takes off his glasses and cleans them.

600 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:31:37pm

re: #591 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

But Charles, I have the real deal! Bigfoot's cousin gave me this link!

You sure that's not just residue from your last alien probing?

/ ;-p

601 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:31:44pm

re: #585 Intrepid

Killgore, if you're not a conservative nor a republican, why the heck do you care who the GOP puts on their ticket?

Because I'd like to vote for a viable, practical minded and qualified candidate. I wish the Dems would knock it off with the European style socialism too. It would provide better choices for the country. I'm an American not a partisan.

602 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:32:07pm

re: #585 Intrepid

Killgore, if you're not a conservative nor a republican, why the heck do you care who the GOP puts on their ticket?

Not to answer for Killgore, but wouldn't it be proper to care as one might want to vote for that person? Can you say that you did not pay attention or have any interest in whom the Democrats nominated?

603 kynna  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:32:21pm

re: #589 wolfie

Huckabee is a "serious poltician" and Palin isn't?
ROFLMAO

Lord save us from 'serious politicians'. I think we're where we are because of 'serious politicians'. LOL.

604 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:32:43pm

re: #575 Intrepid

One thing I fault the entire RNC for in this election was their inability to translate congress' abysmally low approval ratings into a coherent message. Since Nancy Pelosi and her cohorts took over in January 2007, the lack of meaningful legislation passed has been dismal. And her promise of "the most ethical congress in history" is a joke.

But where were the ads pointing this out? Where was this message?

Clean out the entire upper echelon of RNC leadership, I say. Get some new blood in, folks who won't stand around with their thumbs up their rear ends when there is an election to be fought and won.

For all the zeal I had for McCain to win this, it wasn't much...but just enough for me to vote for him, we cannot forget that Democrats are some of McCains highest regarded constituents...you expect him to attack them? Yup...remove the 'elitists' who wouldn't know a 'conservative' principle if it increased their already large bank accounts.

605 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:32:55pm

re: #589 wolfie

That was a slip. Check upthread, I lumped him in with Ron Paul as "assorted nuts".

606 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:33:16pm

I just finished watching Illinois get upset by Western Michigan, Damn!
But I digress. As soon as it ended an ad came on about seminars to educate people how to qualify for motrgages. It was sponsored by La Raza!
Isn't that how we got into this mess?

607 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:33:18pm

Ok, this is depressing.

Too many conservatives think we’ve seen all this before—in 1964 and 1974 and 1992—and that we know how to handle it. Fly, meet ointment: We’re not dealing with the same sorts of opponents. These New Alinskyites who are taking over the White House, combined with the most leftist congressional leadership in memory, will not let us play by the same rules under which conservatives recovered from those earlier debacles. They will try to drastically tilt the playing field, seed our side of the field with land mines and, in short, rig the process to make it next to impossible for the political right, or Republicans, to recover. And they are likely to succeed in at least some of these designs.

608 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:33:58pm

esch,
I actually brought up the Hawaii thing to her. She said she had read Obama's plan and thought it would work.
I haven't read Obama's plan, so I could not argue that, but I did throw in the lines about "do you want your health care to be run as the US Post Office is".
She hesitated on that, but then went back to Obama talking points.

609 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:34:21pm

re: #601 Killgore Trout

Because I'd like to vote for a viable, practical minded and qualified candidate. I wish the Dems would knock it off with the European style socialism too. It would provide better choices for the country. I'm an American not a partisan.

However, if you had voted, McCain would have won.

610 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:35:33pm

re: #601 Killgore Trout

Because I'd like to vote for a viable, practical minded and qualified candidate. I wish the Dems would knock it off with the European style socialism too. It would provide better choices for the country. I'm an American not a partisan.

Understood. What is your most important issue? What do you look for first, ideologically or issues-wise, in a candidate?

611 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:35:42pm

You know what I just don't really get anymore?

What does it take to make people sober and serious?

What does it take to make them sit back and say ... "Oh my God ... this is big ... this could destroy my future ... my childrens' future ... my country ... liberty and everything America stands for ... it could bring about chaos, poverty, death for millions ..."?

What does it take to make them, especially the ones with power, the ones with megaphones, to stop and think: "I need to handle this right, I need to be responsible, I need to think things through, I need to get beyond my own selfish needs and concerns and issues and look at the big picture, I need to change my thinking if necessary, I need to get the facts before I open my mouth, and not spread unfounded rumors, not contribute to the chaos, not contribute to the anger and disarray and despair, but be a voice of reason ..."?

People just can't seem to see the stakes anymore. Nothing, but nothing, distracts them from their pettiness.

612 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:35:51pm

re: #603 kynna

You have a point there! I wouldn't take it too far, but you still have a very good point!

613 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:36:05pm

re: #502 newsjunkie_ky

I have but one up ding to give... you are so right.

614 zelnaga  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:36:21pm

re: #234 strikefo

It seems to be the general feeling here, or at least, the hope of most, that we are hoping that Obama will be a centrist. That now that he's elected, he will govern as more to the right.

I find this completely odd and out of sync with what he have been discussing during the entire election cycle. The fact that he is a socialist, completely left-leaning liberal for 2 years and suddenly when he seizes all the power in the land, he will magically be a centrist is foolish and wishful thinking.

He will govern just as he campaigned. He will govern as Jimmy Carter, part 2.

This is inevitable. Stop wishing he'll suddenly be conservative. He's not going to.

Maybe people are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst?

615 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:36:21pm

re: #610 Intrepid

Understood. What is your most important issue? What do you look for first, ideologically or issues-wise, in a candidate?

Doesn't believe in god.

/ducks under desk...(couldn't resist!)

616 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:36:23pm

re: #609 debutaunt
I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

617 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:36:48pm

re: #607 wahabicorridor

Right.

2010 is do or die for conservatism. We'd better get ready.

618 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:37:18pm

re: #598 the other Amy

Athos,

do you think "nationalizing" the House elections should be done?
Sorta like what Newt Gingrich did in 1994?

I think that one of the things that was key around the 1994 Congressional victory was having a clear message - Contract with America - and effectively communicating and articulating it to the people while contrasting that vision with the reality of the results particularly in 1992-94. So, yes, that would be the way I would like to see things go...even though these elections are local - the national implications at the Congressional level and how they impact local are critical.

That said, even with the message and effective communication, it is very difficult to counter the expectations of entitlements with reason. There are a lot of good people here in CA who have gone to excremento attempting to use reason to counter the leftist policies that have nearly bankrupted this state for the last 8 years - and they still can't stop the people from approving billions in new spending or passing new taxes.

619 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:37:37pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

Why would she have been a disaster?
I'm genuinely interested in your opinion.

620 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:38:25pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

I am enjoying the way one person and his one vote are blamed for this loss.

621 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:38:33pm

Since we're having fun with the BC stuff, I ran across this bizarre headline about it (no link):

"Number Of Birth Certificate Lawsuits Explodes To 8"

First, how can anything "explode" to 8? 8 doesn't strike me as an explosive number. Combustion, maybe. Explosion, no.

Second, how different are the lawsuits? I can just see all the "different" lawsuits:

Phillip J. Berg v. 0bama
Phillip Berg v. 0bama
Phil J. Berg v. 0bama
PJB v. 0bama

...and so on.

622 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:38:57pm

re: #620 debutaunt

I am enjoying the way one person and his one vote are blamed for this loss.

He is and it was.

/

623 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:39:25pm

re: #607 wahabicorridor

If the Democrats remove all means of peaceful opposition, the other options are entirely predictable. Unfortunate, but predictable.

624 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:39:32pm

Dude, that subject is radioactive.

625 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:39:35pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

Hey, you ain't seen nothin' yet, wait until January.

/Back biting over Barack Obama's Treasury Secretary gives him his first headache

626 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:40:03pm

The latest voter corruption news in Minnesota.

Yesterday John Hinderaker explored "What's going on in Minnesota?" with the late arriving-votes that have reduced Norm Coleman's lead over Al Franken from 726 votes with 100 percent of precincts reporting on Wednesday morning to 221 votes as of this morning.

627 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:40:03pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

I just think you would have a hard time convincing me that Obama in the WH is better than Palin in the WH? And the fact the he apparently went to Law School does not impress me. I went to Dental School, and I wouldn't let some of my class mates touch my pets much less me!

628 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:40:14pm
629 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:40:17pm

re: #594 Oh no...Sand People!

Not really directed at you, just want to emphasize a disturbing principle.

As an attempted church going type I have had the 'opportunity' to sit through many a sermon/yarn/spiel/speech/pitch...whateve r you want to define it. There are moments where what is being said is AMAZING just full on BRILLIANT, quite possibly some of the most 'substance' and 'common sense' I have ever heard outside of LGF Then I hear, "boy, that was sure a 'dry' speaker. What a drag... I couldn't stay awake...whew!"

So I guess the point is... What Palin was saying was rock steady on all points...up until McCain tried to get her to swing Liberal...when 'rhetoric / oratory / special effects / Star Wars: Attack of the Clones' is more important than 'substance'... we are screwed. I am still waiting on my refund from Lucas on that one...I will not see the final episode either. Never.

So uh...that' it. Just a point I wanted to type about.

Actually, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith wasn't near as bad as Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, though it did have it's clinker moments, too.

630 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:40:30pm

re: #610 Intrepid


What is your most important issue? What do you look for first, ideologically or issues-wise, in a candidate?


I have pet issues like science and the arts but what's really important in that a candidate support individual freedoms. Also a track record of realistic and practical working solutions is a must. That's why I find it so insane that the Dems and infatuated with imitating European solutions to our problems. They aren't working from functioning model. It's bound to fail.

631 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:41:13pm

re: #597 Athos

McCain is the authoritative person who needs to stand up, deny, and then condemn - using names if he knows them - those who are resorting to this petty behavior.


Sarah Palin hit like a meteor & gave McCain a 4% lead that he could never have gotten on his own.
The Dems & the MSM freaked & set out to destroy her. The gutteral slurs that she is White trash, with a slutty daughter, an Eskimo husband & a crazy baby did not cause outrage. Imagine similar slurs on the Obama's.
While she took the flak, McCain did not defend her , but let her twist.
Now the same people who ran a ridiculous campaign are trying to shift the blame to Palin.
McCain needs to go away.

632 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:42:40pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

And a Marxist with 148 days as a Senator and 130 present votes won't be?

I voted against Obama, not for McCain. The only executive in the race other than McCain running an Air Wing was Palin.

633 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:42:40pm

re: #625 Killian Bundy

Hey, you ain't seen nothin' yet, wait until January.

/Back biting over Barack Obama's Treasury Secretary gives him his first headache

Heh.
He's gotta show leadership now - its not like an ACORN meeting ...

634 descolada9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:42:45pm

Will the Secret Service be investigating that lolrus?

Silly lolrus, birth certificates are for kook fringe!

635 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:42:59pm

Yes, and this was and is one of my major concerns. That Obama is not "just another Democrat," and the Democratic Party is no longer a pro-American, pro-democracy party. And Killgore's intelligent family just couldn't see that.

re: #607 wahabicorridor

Ok, this is depressing.

Too many conservatives think we’ve seen all this before—in 1964 and 1974 and 1992—and that we know how to handle it. Fly, meet ointment: We’re not dealing with the same sorts of opponents. These New Alinskyites who are taking over the White House, combined with the most leftist congressional leadership in memory, will not let us play by the same rules under which conservatives recovered from those earlier debacles. They will try to drastically tilt the playing field, seed our side of the field with land mines and, in short, rig the process to make it next to impossible for the political right, or Republicans, to recover. And they are likely to succeed in at least some of these designs.

636 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:43:15pm

re: #625 Killian Bundy

And the partisan identity-politics bloodbath begins! Woohoo!

/Where'd I put that whiskey?

637 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:43:40pm

re: #618 Athos

We're going to continue losing if the religious right is dictating conservatism to us. It turns people off, and allows them to dismiss our agenda out of hand- even if it's an agenda they agree with overall. Religion is a personal matter for most people and they don't want politicians pushing it on them any more than they want to deal with people pushing religion anywhere else.

638 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:43:56pm

re: #623 rawmuse

If the Democrats remove all means of peaceful opposition, the other options are entirely predictable. Unfortunate, but predictable.

NOT if he implements that 'civilian security force' he's been talking about.

That sound you're hearing is jackboots on your front porch.

639 BlueCanuck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:44:15pm

re: #629 NomadOfNorad

Actually, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith wasn't near as bad as Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, though it did have it's clinker moments, too.

That movie had plot holes you could drive a star destroyer through. After that I discovered a good group of players and the table top RPG game. I realized then that the whole thing was just a fantasy story with sci-fi gadgets.

/Space Opera.

640 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:44:58pm

re: #621 gmsc

The birth certificate stuff has gone beyond pathetic, into seriously deranged black helicopter territory.

Bloggers who continue to post this garbage need psychological help.

641 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:45:17pm

re: #607 wahabicorridor

Ok, this is depressing.

Too many conservatives think we’ve seen all this before—in 1964 and 1974 and 1992—and that we know how to handle it. Fly, meet ointment: We’re not dealing with the same sorts of opponents. These New Alinskyites who are taking over the White House, combined with the most leftist congressional leadership in memory, will not let us play by the same rules under which conservatives recovered from those earlier debacles. They will try to drastically tilt the playing field, seed our side of the field with land mines and, in short, rig the process to make it next to impossible for the political right, or Republicans, to recover. And they are likely to succeed in at least some of these designs.

That just means that we, the blogosphere and the Alternative Media, must put up one hell of a fight, every step of the way, and show them that they're not going to get away with these kind of shenanigans, and that in the very least they're not going to be able to slip this sort of stuff in under the radar. We gotta expose, far and wide, every one of these things they try to do, and not let go of these things when we DO find out about them. We gotta be the lipstick on a huge crowd of bulldogs.

642 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:45:19pm

re: #602 Athos

Not to answer for Killgore, but wouldn't it be proper to care as one might want to vote for that person? Can you say that you did not pay attention or have any interest in whom the Democrats nominated?

I was very interested in both parties' primaries. It amazed me when Hillary didn't get the dem's nod, and I was impressed with McCain's come-from-behind win.

But what astounded me was Obama's continued momentum in light of the numerous revelations about his associations and inability to speak off the cuff, without a teleprompter, almost as if he had no idea what to say unless someone wrote it out for him. Add to that his broken promise to take public financing...

These things would have buried a Republican candidate. It seems to me that America has had the wool pulled over our eyes, and come January 21st, it'll be pulled back off and millions will be shocked at what we've done.

I cared who both parties nominated, but only in one party was full revelation given (actually, more than full revelation.) That disturbs me most. How can we decide intelligently when we're not given full information?

643 x-wing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:45:26pm

re: #630 Killgore Trout

Individual freedoms like the 2nd Amendment?

/and you still couldn't bring yourself to vote?

644 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:45:27pm

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

Sarah Palin's attacks on Barack Obama's patriotism provoked a spike in death threats against the future president, Secret Service agents revealed during the final weeks of the campaign.

/gee, what's next, the Kennedy assassinations?

645 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:45:38pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

That's one opinion. Are there perhaps some other biases that are influencing that opinion?

Ultimately, the issue of the VP comes into play primarily depending on how much the POTUS will empower the VP and if the POTUS can finish out their term of office.

Each has their own opinion as to the qualifications needed for office. I happen to think that law school alone and a history of voting present does not make one qualified to be the Chief Executive. I prefer Governors and in a few limited cases - other public service executives like Mayors or County supervisors more qualified for Executive branch positions than those with purely legislative experience.

646 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:45:40pm

re: #619 yma o hyd

I think here cheeky country charm would have been very embarrassing in diplomatic situations. She has no experience or education in economics or world affairs. She never proposed any ideas opinion that impressed me as well thought out or innovative. I think the real damage from these recent Palin rumors isn't that they're true but I do see the as plausible.
If she were a scholar or had written books about economics or history then there's now way these rumors would stick.

647 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:46:06pm

re: #640 Charles

The birth certificate stuff has gone beyond pathetic, into seriously deranged black helicopter territory.

Bloggers who continue to post this garbage need psychological help.

Just wait till the walrus poops, they'll be digging for it...

648 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:46:14pm

re: #528 kynna

True conversation from Friday:

"I'm better than you" A classmate to my niece.

"Why?" My niece.

"Because I'm black and you're white." The classmate.

"That's racist." My niece.

"Only white people are racist." The classmate.

All these decades of P.C. word-wrangling, and a kid lays out the main idea in five words. It's so very lovely to see it openly confirmed.

I've said it several times here - Obama could potentially set race relations back thirty years. How many black people are really thinking "F-ck you, crackers, it's OUR time now"?

Post-racial my ass.

649 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:46:22pm

re: #626 logboy

The latest voter corruption news in Minnesota.


I guess Franken is waiting for 105% of the precincts to report...

650 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:46:39pm

re: #640 Charles

The birth certificate stuff has gone beyond pathetic, into seriously deranged black helicopter territory.

Bloggers who continue to post this garbage need psychological help.

Under "The One" psychological help will be free to all those in need of "reeducation".

651 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:46:43pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

She was slated for the VP masion , not the White House. She could have honed her skills over four years.
Obama is profoudly unqualified & he is packing to move into the White House.

652 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:46:48pm

re: #611 Tigger2005

Spoiled.
No one really believes that there are serious stakes in this game. They take their security and prosperity for granted. They take their liberties for granted. They take the general decency and honesty of the American system for granted. They take the entire Western heritage for granted.

653 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:47:19pm

re: #633 yma o hyd

Heh.
He's gotta show leadership now - its not like an ACORN meeting ...

Yeah, and he'd better be damn quick about it because time is of the essence.

/the financial markets were expecting his Treasury Secretary pick yesterday

654 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:47:26pm

re: #622 Oh no...Sand People!

He is and it was.

/

hahahahahahahahhahahahahaa - the bastid!

655 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:47:53pm

re: #629 NomadOfNorad

Actually, Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith wasn't near as bad as Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, though it did have it's clinker moments, too.

Is that the one where Annakin comes out with the great romance line, "I am terribly deeply in love with you!"...I like jumped out of my seat...I looked around and was like... is this a horror? A comedy? What the? Most unexpected line ever. And if you can suck the talent out of Samuel Jackson playing Samuel Jackson attempting to be a 'Jedi'...wow. That's some writing:

"So what do I do with this flashlight?" as he stands in front of the 'greenscreen'.
"This is where you fight in a Jedi Battle."
"Don't we got like...some choreography? Some fight moves? I ain't practiced nuthin yet."
Director, "Uh...that's alright...this is all digital...it won't matter...just swing your hand around a little...oh and be sure to put that 'Mag Lite' back on the desk after you are done."
"As long as I'm gettin paid..." Samuel swings arm around lazily...

656 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:48:23pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

I think here cheeky country charm would have been very embarrassing in diplomatic situations. She has no experience or education in economics or world affairs. She never proposed any ideas opinion that impressed me as well thought out or innovative. I think the real damage from these recent Palin rumors isn't that they're true but I do see the as plausible.
If she were a scholar or had written books about economics or history then there's now way these rumors would stick.

What did Obama ever write or do? He is an empty suit spouting empty worthless platitudes? Just about everthing you are saying about Palin can be turned right around back on Obama. And for the record, Clinton SOUNDED better than Bush?

657 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:48:28pm

re: #651 opnion

Obama is profoudly unqualified & he is packing to move into the White House


Agreed.

658 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:48:56pm

re: #642 Intrepid

It will take a little bit longer that January 21st- he'll be allowed a teleprompter for his inaugural speech.

659 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:49:19pm

This is sooo completely nuts. I went to two Sarah Palin rallies. Nothing she said would fit into the category of causing death threats.
She told the truth...or is that the problem?

660 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:49:19pm

re: #631 opnion

McCain needs to go away.

Ultimately he will. Whether he stands up or not. Oh, now that the election is over, the MSM will love him again - but he's as damaged as Dole was in 1996 when it comes to his legacy.

661 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:49:34pm

re: #652 wolfie

Exactly.

'What's the worst that could happen?' Millions of Americans and other westerners dead. Nuclear war. Global slavery. The mind boggles.

There are no do-overs on the national stage. There is no reset button on this game, A**HOLES!

662 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:49:35pm

re: #644 Killian Bundy

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama


/gee, what's next, the Kennedy assassinations?

Killian, I had posted that upthread - but for some reason I can't post stuff on the spinoff links. Would you do it please?

663 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:49:43pm

re: #616 Killgore Trout

I wasn't a big McCain fan to begin with. McCains age and Palin's inexperience was something I couldn't overcome. I think she would have been a disaster in the White House.

It doesn't work, Killgore. Palin has far more practical experience than Obama with his fancy law degree. Guess your PhD family thought that just HAD to mean something, even though he got into Harvard with affirmative action and a key recommendation from a rich Saudi.

And Obama WILL be a disaster in the White House, of Biblical proportions. That's a 100% certainty. There was probably only a 10%-15% probability that McCain would have died in office and Palin have taken over.

Your excuses for not voting are so weak.

664 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:49:54pm

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

665 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:50:11pm

re: #656 Nevergiveup

What did Obama ever write or do?


Nothing really. Lawschool is something of an accomplishment. He wrote 2 books but they were about himself.

666 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:50:12pm

re: #630 Killgore Trout

I have pet issues like science and the arts but what's really important in that a candidate support individual freedoms. Also a track record of realistic and practical working solutions is a must. That's why I find it so insane that the Dems and infatuated with imitating European solutions to our problems. They aren't working from functioning model. It's bound to fail.

It think people liked Palin for those qualities.

667 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:50:13pm

re: #637 Sharmuta

I agree 100%. Well said.

668 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:50:30pm

re: #644 Killian Bundy

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

/gee, what's next, the Kennedy assassinations?

Where is the US Secret Service blaming the MSM over a frickin film on how to Assassinate Pres. Bush?

/Channeling the Bastard of MSM Chris Matthews: (paraphrasing), "It's my job to ensure that Obama's Presidency is a success!" ... No expectation of filtered rose colored glasses on that 'reporting' of news now...

669 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:51:41pm

re: #664 Charles

I think it was a real mistke that she never corrected that gaffe. I checked for days to see if she'd issue a correction and never found anything.

670 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:51:48pm

re: #665 Killgore Trout

Nothing really. Lawschool is something of an accomplishment. He wrote 2 books but they were about himself.

And Palin is running a State. What did Obama ever run but up and down the court?

671 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:52:33pm

re: #639 BlueCanuck

I realized then that the whole thing was just a fantasy story with sci-fi gadgets.

/Space Opera.

Well, some of us realized that back in 1977 ...

Lucas described SW as "The Wizard of Oz" in Space.

Then there's the Arthurian aspect, complete with magic.

And so on ... there's Western cowboy mythology in there too ... and Eastern philosophy/martial arts ...

672 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:52:57pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

I think here cheeky country charm would have been very embarrassing in diplomatic situations. She has no experience or education in economics or world affairs. She never proposed any ideas opinion that impressed me as well thought out or innovative. I think the real damage from these recent Palin rumors isn't that they're true but I do see the as plausible.
If she were a scholar or had written books about economics or history then there's now way these rumors would stick.

What books or scholarship has Obama produced? What ideas has Obama proposed that have impressed you as well thought out or innovative?

It's silly to compare a presidential candidate to a vice presidential candidate.

673 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:53:03pm

re: #662 wahabicorridor

Killian, I had posted that upthread - but for some reason I can't post stuff on the spinoff links. Would you do it please?

Sorry, I should have checked show links.

/spinoffs are getting crowded, want me to wait for a fresh thread?

674 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:53:05pm

re: #620 debutaunt

I am enjoying the way one person and his one vote are blamed for this loss.

I don't think anyone's blaming Killgore for McCain's loss. Even if he had voted for McCain, we'd have needed an addition 7 or 8 million more to have pulled that same lever.

675 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:53:16pm

#646
I think here cheeky country charm would have been very embarrassing in diplomatic situations. She has no experience or education in economics or world affairs. She never proposed any ideas opinion that impressed me as well thought out or innovative. I think the real damage from these recent Palin rumors isn't that they're true but I do see the as plausible.
If she were a scholar or had written books about economics or history then there's now way these rumors would stick.

Actually, I would go with the Bill Buckley idea about being governed by the first 400 people in the Boston phone directory than with the faculty of Harvard

676 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:53:49pm

re: #670 Nevergiveup

What did Obama ever run but up and down the court?

I'm not arguing that Obama was a better candidate, I didn't vote for him. But if he rules as a moderate and doesn't run the country into the ground I might vote for him next time depending on who the Republicans run.

677 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:54:07pm

The Red Star reports:

"An election night worksheet from St. Louis County showed Franken with 406 votes from Precinct 1 in Mountain Iron. The revised totals Thursday night showed him with 506. Similarly, the vote total for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama increased from 469 to 569 when the final tallies were completed. Both Democrats won the precinct by a ratio of more than 2-to-1.

"Obviously, this is highly suspicious. They found 100 votes, and it's statistically impossible that all 100 votes went to the two Democrats, even in St. Louis County," said Cullen Sheehan, Coleman's campaign manager.""

She's wrong. Under "The One" anything is possible.

678 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:54:20pm
679 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:54:37pm

re: #667 Athos

I realize it's pissing some people off, and it's uncomfortable for them, but my reasons for being a conservative have everything to do with the Constitution, not the Bible. Conservatism has to do with smaller government- full stop.

680 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:54:53pm

re: #642 Intrepid

I cared who both parties nominated, but only in one party was full revelation given (actually, more than full revelation.) That disturbs me most. How can we decide intelligently when we're not given full information?

We can't control if and how everyone decides they are getting full information. The vast majority of the MSM was thoroughly in the tank for the Democrat candidate this election cycle -but this has happened before in our history. Perhaps the only real issue with that is the lack of honesty around the MSM being in the tank for the candidate of their choice as they were in the past. In 1860, the MSM was very open as to who they supported and why - people knew the bias. Not today. But ultimately, it is up to each of us to seek out full information. Some will work at it harder than others - but that is just human nature. I think the failure of this cycle was as much the failure of the Republican's to communicate and articulate as it was the MSM's bias.

681 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:55:07pm

re: #663 Tigger2005

Your excuses for not voting are so weak.


That's odd, they seem fine to me.

682 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:55:29pm

re: #668 Oh no...Sand People!

If you read the article, the USSS is not on record about this - it's just a source SAYING this is what they told the Obamas.

BS - all of it.

683 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:55:43pm

re: #678 Iron Fist

And Obama's not going to be a disaster?

I hope not.

684 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:55:59pm

re: #679 Sharmuta

I realize it's pissing some people off, and it's uncomfortable for them, but my reasons for being a conservative have everything to do with the Constitution, not the Bible. Conservatism has to do with smaller government- full stop.

Seconded.

685 Nevergiveup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:56:02pm

re: #676 Killgore Trout

I'm not arguing that Obama was a better candidate, I didn't vote for him. But if he rules as a moderate and doesn't run the country into the ground I might vote for him next time depending on who the Republicans run.

That is not my point. My point is you can not crucify Palin for her inexperience and then turn around and vote for Obama. It becomes a distinction with out a differance! And for the record, there is no reason what so ever for anyone to expect Obama to rule from the center?

686 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:56:33pm

re: #644 Killian Bundy

Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama


/gee, what's next, the Kennedy assassinations?

This is such crap. They attribute this accusation to noone in the Secret Service, it's just the Secret Service. I doubt seriously that any of those people were talking to Newsweek.
That leaves the assertion by the Obama Campaign in the person of Michelle that the Secret Service told them that Palin was causing White Supremists to get even more loopy.
Remeber Michelle said that Barack could get shot buying gas?

687 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:56:43pm

re: #630 Killgore Trout

I have pet issues like science and the arts but what's really important in that a candidate support individual freedoms. Also a track record of realistic and practical working solutions is a must. That's why I find it so insane that the Dems and infatuated with imitating European solutions to our problems. They aren't working from functioning model. It's bound to fail.

Absolutely. They'll find that out soon enough, but sadly, so will we.

688 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:56:51pm

re: #685 Nevergiveup

My point is you can not crucify Palin for her inexperience and then turn around and vote for Obama.


I didn't.

689 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:56:52pm

re: #673 Killian Bundy

Oh no need to apologize - and please - at your own convenience, Thank you

690 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:57:18pm

re: #674 Intrepid

I don't think anyone's blaming Killgore for McCain's loss. Even if he had voted for McCain, we'd have needed an addition 7 or 8 million more to have pulled that same lever.

True - 0bama beat McCain by 7 to 8 million votes. That's at least 12 ACORN voters!

691 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:57:19pm

re: #666 debutaunt

It think people liked Palin for those qualities.

I don't believe the Democrats are really interested anymore in finding "solutions" to our problems, even unworkable European solutions. They're interested in power and social engineering. Not this mundane business of democratic governing. They want to rework our society so they can destroy the middle class and keep the poor unaware of the real causes of their problems and dependent on the very government that ensures their poverty.

692 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:58:04pm

re: #664 Charles

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

I think Palin falls into the "Bush Category" as far as admiration goes. You either love her or hate her, but there is no in between.

693 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:59:13pm

re: #690 gmsc

That's at least 12 ACORN voters!

The administration that's Chock Full O' Nuts!

694 rawmuse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 12:59:53pm

There is only so much election post-mortem I can stomach.
I have no more lessons to learn from this experience.
So, with the permission of our gracious host, I will happily post on any and all topics, except election post-mortem.

You can not un-ring the bell, what was done was done.

The time to look forward is now. We all need to plan for the USA, post-Obama.
God willing, there will be one.

695 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:00:07pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

I think here cheeky country charm would have been very embarrassing in diplomatic situations. She has no experience or education in economics or world affairs. She never proposed any ideas opinion that impressed me as well thought out or innovative. I think the real damage from these recent Palin rumors isn't that they're true but I do see the as plausible.
If she were a scholar or had written books about economics or history then there's now way these rumors would stick.

I understand - but would say this:
*How can she be expected to propose any ideas, innovative nes even, when she is a running mate and not the candidate for the white House itself? She's had to stand on the party platform, and on what McCain had as his line.
No leeway.
*The rumours are obviously made up in such a way that they would stick, otherwise nobody would even think of them being plausible - thats how these things are done.

I'd say that exacly the same points can and have been made not just about Obama, but also about Biden. The only difference is that they are ascribed 'gravitas' because they're men, older, and from the political 'elite', thus the points you rise are forgiven.

Leaves the 'cheeky country charm' - and that disqualifies her for the White House?

This reminds me quite strongly of the whispers against Maggie when she first ran: 'Oh, she's a greengrocer's daughter - horror!' 'Oh, she always making like a housewife - we can't ahve a housewife - horror! - in 10 Downing Street' ...

Basically, it comes down to prejudice, something to be found underlying a lot of politicla debates.

696 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:00:14pm

re: #660 Athos

Ultimately he will. Whether he stands up or not. Oh, now that the election is over, the MSM will love him again - but he's as damaged as Dole was in 1996 when it comes to his legacy.

Your right about the MSM & his 'Dear Friends" in the Democrat Party will take him back, because he ran like a getleman, that is he never threatened to actually win.

697 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:01:57pm
698 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:02:03pm

#691
I don't believe the Democrats are really interested anymore in finding "solutions" to our problems, even unworkable European solutions. They're interested in power and social engineering. Not this mundane business of democratic governing. They want to rework our society so they can destroy the middle class and keep the poor unaware of the real causes of their problems and dependent on the very government that ensures their poverty.


That, and other people, like my friend, who want to "help people".
Spreading the wealth around will help people...
Universal health care will help people...


Most democrat ideas have good intentions (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac) help people get into houses...but have terrible unintended consequences.

I could not get my friend to see/believe the unintended consequences

699 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:02:58pm

re: #617 esch

We need to flip 50 seats. It only takes one in each state.

700 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:02:59pm

Just found this.

...given the pool was 2:1 in favor of Franken, the odds against pulling 100 Franken votes in a row are 406,561,177,535,215,237 to 1 against. That's one chance in 406 quadrillion (406 million billion). Hey, it could happen -- especially when the votes are being counted by Democrats.

701 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:03:31pm

I am all for finding legitimate criticisms of the people we elect to serve us.

I don't mind the critique of Palin, but most of it has been way below the pale.

What I do mind, and what has always, always, always been my contention, is the lopsided critique of one side compared to the other in our free media. Combine this link to being reported from oversees, the under $200.00 dollar contributions totaling millions upon millions, and I really feel distant about the future of politics in this country.

Right now, the media is riding hard and fast with deconstruction this woman, (who was actually in their favor while she was Governor) but they are destined to kill her off politically now. I think they realize she might actually pose a threat in the future, and they are hedging their bets.

We make more hay about what some douche bag like pdiddy thinks politically, than so many more things of substance.

To me, it seems blatantly hypocritical to not defend the onslaught she is dealing with now, but in the same breath feel that we should shake off our pre-election superstitions about the candidate who won, for the greater good of the country.

I really do worry about the future of our Republic. I can imagine the great minds, toiling about as they argued the best path for the future of this infantile nation, would ever think how we do it now fits into the model they envisioned as the best hope for mankind.

702 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:04:37pm

re: #679 Sharmuta

I realize it's pissing some people off, and it's uncomfortable for them, but my reasons for being a conservative have everything to do with the Constitution, not the Bible. Conservatism has to do with smaller government- full stop.

There either needs to be a breakaway party or constitutionally limited government Republicans need to join the LP.

703 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:04:42pm

re: #700 logboy

Just found this.

Change! Dammit! Change!

704 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:04:53pm

re: #700 logboy

Just found this.

Sounds like some WA '04 vote counters are in MN.

705 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:05:09pm

Just for fun, I tried following the BC conspiracy links to find the original source.

Assume I started at link A. OK, their source is link B, so I click it. I follow that to link C, then link D. Link D, though, goes back to an earlier post at link A. Link A goes to an earlier post at link C, and it continues in a similar manner from there. I couldn't get a link outside this circle at any point!

Fun as that tour is, I really can't recommend it.

706 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:05:43pm

re: #664 Charles

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

all things considered she was such a better candidate than stupid biden and the empty O.
i agree the ill informed remark abt. the insignificance of lab research was not good.
but damn, look at this fool obama gaffing already. his 1st presser.
HE IS SO IN OVER HIS HEAD.
and he knows it or at least suspects. he called himself a mutt.
in front of the world.

707 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:06:27pm

re: #679 Sharmuta

I realize it's pissing some people off, and it's uncomfortable for them, but my reasons for being a conservative have everything to do with the Constitution, not the Bible. Conservatism has to do with smaller government- full stop.

You said it earlier - religion is a personal matter about one's belief and relationship with God or their Diety or Supreme Being or in nothing.

While there are some things from religion - morality / ethics that should be part of any political system, strict interpretations of books like the Torah, Bible, or Quran as a basis for the political system is crossing a line in my mind. These have all been tried in history - and have been found to be lacking as forms or the core basis of government.

The moderate Democrats have had to fight the hard left - and to many moderate Democrats that I know, they are concerned because to them the hard secular left has won in that party. To those of us traditional conservatives in the Republican party (conservative based on fiscal, national security, and Constitution), we are fighting a similar fight with the hard religious right who seek to ignore science and force a strict interpretation including creationism on Republicans. This goes beyond a common moral and ethical code.

708 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:06:48pm

#696
Your right about the MSM & his 'Dear Friends" in the Democrat Party will take him back, because he ran like a getleman, that is he never threatened to actually win.

Yeah, he would not say anything about his Democratic friends...
but will they welcome him back...or only if he does what they want?

709 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:07:30pm

re: #705 gmsc

Just for fun, I tried following the BC conspiracy links to find the original source.

Assume I started at link A. OK, their source is link B, so I click it. I follow that to link C, then link D. Link D, though, goes back to an earlier post at link A. Link A goes to an earlier post at link C, and it continues in a similar manner from there. I couldn't get a link outside this circle at any point!

Fun as that tour is, I really can't recommend it.

Silly you, I went to SCOTUS and searched. Nada.

710 dkorta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:07:39pm

re: #664 Charles

Oh for Christ's sake. Didn't Saint Reagan believe in UFOs?

711 scion9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:08:17pm

re: #630 Killgore Trout

I have pet issues like science and the arts but what's really important in that a candidate support individual freedoms. Also a track record of realistic and practical working solutions is a must. That's why I find it so insane that the Dems and infatuated with imitating European solutions to our problems. They aren't working from functioning model. It's bound to fail.

In most European countries it is virtually impossible for a politician on the right, that does strongly support individual liberty, free markets and all the other hallmarks of classical liberalism to get elected, with incumbency protection laws (ie McCain-Feingold on steroids), decades of state run media and public education that reinforces the political ideology of the left-wing, and on and on.

Europe is absolutely is a working model, from where they are standing.

712 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:08:36pm

re: #695 yma o hyd

Spot on.
Again, it's that dirty little secret. Those that hate Governor Palin don't much like Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder, either.

713 opnion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:08:51pm

re: #699 Who Watches the Watchmen?

We need to flip 50 seats. It only takes one in each state.

50 states! What are you talking about? There are 59 states, as was pointed out by the Dear Leader. He said that he had already campaigned in 57 of them & had 2 more to go.
You really must start conforming to the New Order.

714 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:09:00pm

re: #646 Killgore Trout

I think here cheeky country charm would have been very embarrassing in diplomatic situations. She has no experience or education in economics or world affairs. She never proposed any ideas opinion that impressed me as well thought out or innovative. I think the real damage from these recent Palin rumors isn't that they're true but I do see the as plausible.
If she were a scholar or had written books about economics or history then there's now way these rumors would stick.

Yet you totally ignore the work she's done as a governor, in less than two years in office. Exposing and kicking out corrupt politicians in her own party, decreasing the size of Alaska's budget and giving them a surplus, facilitating the Natural Gas deal, etc.

The opinions she espoused on the campaign trail were those of the top of the ticket, which is only appropriate.

I've met people who never finished high school who were more naturally intelligent than some who have attained their post graduate degrees. Some highly educated people have no idea how to turn their education into wisdom. And wisdom is what makes a person know how to apply that knowledge.

Give me a Sarah Palin who has wisdom over a Barack Obama who may have knowledge but who lacks the understanding of how to use it any day.

715 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:09:02pm

I thought it was Dennis Kucinich that believed in UFO's

716 3 wood  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:09:14pm

re: #625 Killian Bundy

Hey, you ain't seen nothin' yet, wait until January.

/Back biting over Barack Obama's Treasury Secretary gives him his first headache

He can't vote "present" now.

717 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:09:45pm

I must have food. Later, lizards...

718 wahabicorridor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:10:47pm

Thank you Killian!

719 yma o hyd  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:10:52pm

Time for Miss Dog - seeya tomorrow!

720 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:11:07pm
/Back biting over Barack Obama's Treasury Secretary gives him his first headache


It is a little fun to watch grievance groups try to out-grievance each other.

721 esch  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:11:52pm

re: #716 3 wood

Better get a case full of Marlboro's in the Oval Office.

722 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:12:41pm

re: #664 Charles

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

I don't like the anti-science pandering either, but it would take quite a bit more than that for her to "lose" me. She's a smart woman who I think is willing to be corrected when she's wrong.

And as for the idea that Palin is someone you either love or hate with no in between, I've never felt that way about her at all, and I just don't get it. She's a good person. I like her. I don't have to "love" her or "hate" her. I just don't get this extremism in people. I think it's interesting that Alec Baldwin has a very balanced perspective on her.

723 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:13:30pm
724 alegrias  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:14:29pm

re: #714 Intrepid

Yet you totally ignore the work she's done as a governor, in less than two years in office. Exposing and kicking out corrupt politicians in her own party, decreasing the size of Alaska's budget and giving them a surplus, facilitating the Natural Gas deal, etc.

The opinions she espoused on the campaign trail were those of the top of the ticket, which is only appropriate.

I've met people who never finished high school who were more naturally intelligent than some who have attained their post graduate degrees. Some highly educated people have no idea how to turn their education into wisdom. And wisdom is what makes a person know how to apply that knowledge.

Give me a Sarah Palin who has wisdom over a Barack Obama who may have knowledge but who lacks the understanding of how to use it any day.

* * *
Right on. She was savvy enough to topple "sophisticated" corrupt party fat cats, and negotiate $40 billion energy deals.

Some posters' sexism and Charlie Gibson-like looking down one's nose is nauseating--let them swallow Obama's smooth "sophisticated" sophistry for the next 4 or 8 years. Yeah, remember Jimmy Carter was more edumacated, in noocular physics no less, than Ford, Reagan & Bush.

725 dkorta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:14:45pm

re: #715 the other Amy

Reagan said he mentioned the possiblity of ET invasion to Gorbachov

726 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:15:18pm

I also ask Obama voters how many years he spent in Kansas. Many people watched the ad about his "Kansas" roots and think that Obama lived there. Of course, Obama never lived in Kansas, and his mother and grandparents moved away when the mother was 12 or 13.
Very few people (McCain and Obama) voters, knew the correct answer.

727 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:17:31pm

re: #679 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, I am one of those people who think that whether you want to separate the 2 ideologies, it is all but impossible.

It is obvious, that there a couple of prominent issues that have come to the forefront within the conservative party.

With respect to gay marriage, the infringement has the ability to impose itself upon both sides of the coin. I was involved in this discussion some months ago here. I do my best, to argue my points of view outside of any religious feeling I might have.

The problem I see with this particular issue, aside from the near pitbull special interest out there litigating for this movement, is how do you stop the ball from rolling after this becomes legal?

One of the major arguments from the proponents of gay marriage, is "what defines a family"?

Good argument. Families do come in many different forms anymore.

Do we really think, once gay marriage becomes legal, within a year or two, we will not see the petition in our courts to then recognize a union with a bisexual arrangement? For everything we think will never happen here, realize, this is already in the frying pan in Europe.

Furthermore, once this is redefined, what leg does the Constitution have to stand on with respect to polygamy? I am dead serious about this. The argument has already been made. What defines a family?

One of the strongest arguments here about fighting creationism being taught in science classes is the dilution of what the accepted norms are, and inclusion opens the door for other cultural differences with diametrical opposition to western civilization to gain a foothold.

Seriously, once this is done, how do you defend against the new immigrant who wants a harem? That is his version of family.

728 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:18:38pm

dkorta
I had never seen that before...Wow!
When Reagan was president, I hated him.
I didn't switch over until half-way through the Clinton years.

729 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:20:34pm
730 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:22:24pm

Yeah, I was talking to a neighbor who I volunteered with on McCain's campaign and she mentioned how she and her husband both have college degrees, but they have friends who only graduated high school who took enormous risks to open a Sonic franchise and now own many of the Sonic franchises north of the river (Kansas City MO area). No college education but they make far more than my neighbors.

I find it highly suspicious that people who gripe about Palin's "inexperience" simply ignore her accomplishments. And we are so going to regret not having someone with her energy knowledge in the White House, fruit fly remark be damned.

As for Barack Obama's Harvard law degree ... so, what's he going to do if the Russians act up? Sue them?


re: #714 Intrepid

Yet you totally ignore the work she's done as a governor, in less than two years in office. Exposing and kicking out corrupt politicians in her own party, decreasing the size of Alaska's budget and giving them a surplus, facilitating the Natural Gas deal, etc.

The opinions she espoused on the campaign trail were those of the top of the ticket, which is only appropriate.

I've met people who never finished high school who were more naturally intelligent than some who have attained their post graduate degrees. Some highly educated people have no idea how to turn their education into wisdom. And wisdom is what makes a person know how to apply that knowledge.

Give me a Sarah Palin who has wisdom over a Barack Obama who may have knowledge but who lacks the understanding of how to use it any day.

731 jonturner  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:24:08pm

re: #706 nyc redneck

look at this fool obama gaffing already. his 1st presser.
HE IS SO IN OVER HIS HEAD. and he knows it or at least suspects.


Yup. I suspect this will be one of many, many misstatements, gaffes, etc. (which the press will undoubtedly excuse.) We're in for an entertaining four years.

But the thing that gets me is his overly eager enthusiasm for calling himself "President". First that "possumus" mock-official seal, now the "President-Elect" podium. (has any prior president-elect done this? I can't recall a case.) Like anyone in the free world has escaped the fact that the man was elected. Good grief. It's tiresome, but I think it indicates an inferiority complex. Like a PhD who ALWAYS insists on being called "doctor", regardless of the social situation, and compulsively corrects anyone who fails to address him with that title. Or a mid-level corporate project manager who always insists on signing all emails with an alphabet-soup of certifications. Any psychologists here who could comment?

732 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:25:38pm

re: #729 ploome hineni

Well, I know that, you know that, and most people here know it as well.

It has been my opinion for a while now, the enemies of our liberty know damn sure they won't beat us on the battlefield.

Consider the Soviets being in Afghanistan for a decade and then having to leave.

We f'd their world up in a mater of 2 months. Were not done yet, but lets face it, if we wanted, that place could be the dark side of the moon if we wanted it to be.

I am convinced, but the enemies of our system, our way of life, and our Constitution are doing it through our courts. This is why I think it is such a major player in the election of a President. The sheer number of appointments can keep us alive, or kill us off.

733 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:26:57pm

re: #713 opnion

50 states! What are you talking about? There are 59 states, as was pointed out by the Dear Leader. He said that he had already campaigned in 57 of them & had 2 more to go.
You really must start conforming to the New Order.

Actually, if you go by what 0bama said, there are 60 states. He said he'd been to 57 states, with 1 left to go, and wouldn't be able to get to Alaska and Hawaii.

734 dkorta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:27:21pm

re: #728 the other Amy

I didn't really appreciate Reagan either until long after he was out of office.

735 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:29:55pm

re: #664 Charles

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

Everyone has their 'one' issue. To some it's 1st Amendment or 2nd Amendment. To others taxes or limited government. I myself was concerned over lack of her mentioning this fascinating article "Stupid Science: Make Ice From Fast Food Toilet Water". Her lack of information on this breakthrough was very disturbing since this could have really benefited the people of Wasilla with cleaner ice as well as benefited the WORLD!

/Just funnin Boss!

736 the other Amy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:30:30pm

dkorta
My husband switched over in 1994 with Newt and I was really mad. I told him he was not the man I married, etc., etc, etc. But then I started listening to "the right" and I switched over, too.

737 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:31:12pm

re: #731 jonturner

Yup. I suspect this will be one of many, many misstatements, gaffes, etc. (which the press will undoubtedly excuse.) We're in for an entertaining four years.

But the thing that gets me is his overly eager enthusiasm for calling himself "President". First that "possumus" mock-official seal, now the "President-Elect" podium. (has any prior president-elect done this? I can't recall a case.) Like anyone in the free world has escaped the fact that the man was elected. Good grief. It's tiresome, but I think it indicates an inferiority complex. Like a PhD who ALWAYS insists on being called "doctor", regardless of the social situation, and compulsively corrects anyone who fails to address him with that title. Or a mid-level corporate project manager who always insists on signing all emails with an alphabet-soup of certifications. Any psychologists here who could comment?

that sums it very well. i couldn't agree more.
i think he swings from total narcissism to deep inferiority. why call yourself a mutt and then push the bizarre "president elect" title.

738 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:40:43pm

Could make the argument that a marriage is two consenting adults, period. Yes, there will be pressure against THAT, too. But I think there are far stronger arguments against polygamy than there are against gay marriage. There is simply no way the partners in such an arrangement could be legally equal in any respect. Or, suppose you had, say, 3 bisexual men and 4 bisexual women who wanted to all marry each other. The legalities involved would be insane and far too large a burden on society.

re: #727 formercorpsman

Sharmuta, I am one of those people who think that whether you want to separate the 2 ideologies, it is all but impossible.

It is obvious, that there a couple of prominent issues that have come to the forefront within the conservative party.

With respect to gay marriage, the infringement has the ability to impose itself upon both sides of the coin. I was involved in this discussion some months ago here. I do my best, to argue my points of view outside of any religious feeling I might have.

The problem I see with this particular issue, aside from the near pitbull special interest out there litigating for this movement, is how do you stop the ball from rolling after this becomes legal?

One of the major arguments from the proponents of gay marriage, is "what defines a family"?

Good argument. Families do come in many different forms anymore.

Do we really think, once gay marriage becomes legal, within a year or two, we will not see the petition in our courts to then recognize a union with a bisexual arrangement? For everything we think will never happen here, realize, this is already in the frying pan in Europe.

Furthermore, once this is redefined, what leg does the Constitution have to stand on with respect to polygamy? I am dead serious about this. The argument has already been made. What defines a family?

One of the strongest arguments here about fighting creationism being taught in science classes is the dilution of what the accepted norms are, and inclusion opens the door for other cultural differences with diametrical opposition to western civilization to gain a foothold.

Seriously, once this is done, how do you defend against the new immigrant who wants a harem? That is his version of family.

739 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:41:17pm
740 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:41:38pm

re: #727 formercorpsman

Fascinating that you were able to argue your point about gay marriage without invoking the Bible even once.

My point stands- conservatism is about smaller government.

741 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:45:11pm

re: #664 Charles

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

Except that it wasn't anti-science. Those researchers had the proper channels to go to get their grant from the US Government. They were turned down. Fair enough. But THEN the researchers went to their congressman, did an end run around the taxpayer's priorities, and got an earmark. From NRO Corner, 28 October -

We note some of the silliness of Christopher Hitchens’s attack on Sarah Palin and her supposed "war on science." It’s worth pointing out that the particular spark that set off this latest Slate witch-burning was Palin’s criticism of a $211,000 earmark from Rep. Mike Thompson (D-CA) for a French study of fruit flies that damage olive groves—a criticism that came in the midst of a larger speech about the need for, among other things, more support for scientific research. The idea that opposing science-funding-by-earmark (i.e. in circumvention of the rigorous peer review process for federal R&D funds) is somehow anti-science is beyond absurd, and the notion that criticizing this earmark means Palin opposes or is ignorant of any use of fruit flies in scientific research is just unserious.

Researchers whose work is found not to have sufficient merit by the peer review boards at NIH or NSF or the Department of Agriculture or the other federal agencies that distribute $142 billion of research funds every year can get taxpayer funds nonetheless if they happen to know the right congressman or if their institution has a good lobbyist. That’s an example of our political system at work, not of science unfettered, and yet somehow the great Tribune of Reason [Chris Hitchens] takes it to be a sacred ritual, whose critics could only be retrograde anti-rationalists.

742 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:47:00pm

re: #739 ploome hineni

because it is still all about him

do you want your POTUS referring to himself as a mutt?

that is completely off the wall.
so undignified.
alarming, in fact.

743 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:47:04pm

Does Charles owe Palin and other pro-science socons a retraction and apology? Yes, I believe he does.

744 scion9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:47:55pm

re: #706 nyc redneck

I don't think believing that the government should be the sole source of innovation is 'anti-science'. Her comments to me weren't about fruit-fly research, but about government funded fruit-fly research. While that research may have provided useful results that it may not have without millions of taxpayer dollars shipped off to France, there isn't any evidence of that at all.

To me, this all looks like welfare for Europe. Worse than corporate welfare. When/if we do eventually get a nuclear power strategy under Obama, we are likely going to be buying the reactors from France. That is to say after we give them the technology that we intend to use rather than their own, and they will sell it back to us. That fruit fly research that we fund with our tax dollars will also be sold back to us in medical technology. If we get UHC, then our tax dollars will go straight to European companies that develop it rather than what Pfizer or Johnson and Johnson would provide on the markets after buying the patent. Spread the wealth around. Spread it straight out of the country.

The LHC is another great example. If it weren't for Bill Clinton, the Republican-led project to have a supercollider in the US (and stay on the cutting edge of scientific innovation) would have been realized in the mid-1990s, not the 21st century, in Europe. The Democrats shot it down because it looked too much like we were showing off, and that it wouldn't be fair to the rest of the world if we perpetually stayed 20-30 years ahead of them on technology. So we are going to do everything we can to bring them up, and keep us down. Count on it.

And for every useful project that the government funds, there is about ten times as much money going into combating, not studying, but combating anthropogenic global climate change. There is virtually no money going into alternative energy research. Even if you do agree that the billions of taxpayers dollars being spent on scientific research being done in Europe, by Europeans that are at least 20 years behind our own scientific institutions, is just fine, I would still think that there are some very pressing issues that science could solve, that really aren't even being attempted by government and are only being talked by the private sector, or not at all.

More over, we are on a slippery slope saying that tax payer dollars should be going to research for 'the greater good'. It is essentially the same thing as bailout economics, in rewarding behavior that isn't proven to garner results, or even proven to garner failure. I'm of a mind that the private sector, especially the trillion dollar pharmaceutical industry can furnish research and development costs, including fruit fly research. The only place that the government has in furthering technology, is military technology, that the markets simply wouldn't furnish the costs for. However, keeping us all from being killed is something that the government should be spending money on though, unlike corporate welfare, rather it is to GM in the way of a bailout or Savos-Aventi in fruit fly research.

745 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:49:42pm

re: #744 scion9

for me, her comment was not a deal breaker.

746 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:50:14pm

re: #739 ploome hineni

because it is still all about him

do you want your POTUS referring to himself as a mutt?

I remember watching an episode of the Apprentice. One of the contestants in the 'room' with the 'Donald' referred to himself as 'white trash'...the 'Donald' went OFF.

"Why would you refer to yourself as 'white trash'? That's the stupidest thing I have heard. YOU'RE FIRED!"

Obama wouldn't have made it either...

747 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:50:19pm

re: #738 Tigger2005

Could make the argument that a marriage is two consenting adults, period. Yes, there will be pressure against THAT, too. But I think there are far stronger arguments against polygamy than there are against gay marriage. There is simply no way the partners in such an arrangement could be legally equal in any respect. Or, suppose you had, say, 3 bisexual men and 4 bisexual women who wanted to all marry each other. The legalities involved would be insane and far too large a burden on society.

Now, here's a question and a rejoinder:

"If you approve gay marriage, how do you keep two men (or two women), who are not gay and do not love each other, from marrying simply to obtain the benefits of marriage?"

To which a gay-marriage advocate might respond, "Well, how do you keep a man and woman from marrying simply to obtain the benefits of marriage?"

Of course, we HOPE that the legal and financial bonds we put on marriage will persuade people not to get married for such reasons. Two non-gay men getting married simply so one can get, say, the other's health benefits from his employer are taking a big risk ... suppose one of them meets a woman and wants to marry her? Now you have a divorce on your hands, and unless you have some kind of prenup it could get messy!

748 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:51:14pm
749 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:51:26pm

re: #738 Tigger2005

You are really convinced, once gay marriage is legal, the courts won't be burdened with these types of law suites?

Seriously, polygamy is practiced in countries today. Countries that our country actually does business with, and works internationally with in the U.N.

There is a major movement out there to have international laws recognized in our Judiciary.

Justice Stevens has deferred to international law on numerous occasions with respect to rendering a decision with respect to our laws.

I am very convinced, this type of change in our current system is a major attempt at instituting socialism, and usurping our autonomy, and weakening our Constitution.

I am not a gun owner, but truthfully, look at the international gun control movements.

This stuff is organized.

750 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:53:03pm

re: #740 Sharmuta

Ok, you got me.

Was that a compliment, or the the white glove across my cheek?

I will admit, I am bewildered as I type.

751 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:56:11pm

re: #707 Athos

The moderate Democrats have had to fight the hard left - and to many moderate Democrats that I know, they are concerned because to them the hard secular left has won in that party. To those of us traditional conservatives in the Republican party (conservative based on fiscal, national security, and Constitution), we are fighting a similar fight with the hard religious right who seek to ignore science and force a strict interpretation including creationism on Republicans. This goes beyond a common moral and ethical code.

Fighting that fight, indeed we are.

But I worry that some moderates on our side are misrepresenting the views of social and fiscal conservatives. This is more likely out of ignorance than malice; Charles, for instance, probably doesn't spend a lot of time at NRO. But social conservatives can't help but be put off by attacks which are undeserved. If LGF won't take our side, where will we go? Obama? Jindal? (Gates of Vienna...?)

Please don't push us out, Charles

752 scion9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:56:26pm

re: #738 Tigger2005

Could make the argument that a marriage is two consenting adults, period. Yes, there will be pressure against THAT, too. But I think there are far stronger arguments against polygamy than there are against gay marriage. There is simply no way the partners in such an arrangement could be legally equal in any respect. Or, suppose you had, say, 3 bisexual men and 4 bisexual women who wanted to all marry each other. The legalities involved would be insane and far too large a burden on society.

The argument for polygamy is much, much stronger. Marriage is a religious institution. The 1st Amendent protects the rights of Muslims and fundamentalist Mormons to have as many wives as their religion dictates. We simply deny them their right to practice their religion freely.

Any one can rant against that any way they want to. Pretending that polygamy isn't, or won't be on the table only need look at Europe, where it is rapidly becoming legal (for Muslims) across the board.

753 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:56:47pm

re: #748 ploome hineni

meanwhile I can just see our enemies using psychiatrists to show them how best to approach Obama's ego

he will be no match for many of our enemies. they won't bother w/ psychological tricks. putin will crush him and laugh.

754 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:56:56pm

re: #749 formercorpsman

You are really convinced, once gay marriage is legal, the courts won't be burdened with these types of law suites?

Seriously, polygamy is practiced in countries today. Countries that our country actually does business with, and works internationally with in the U.N.

There is a major movement out there to have international laws recognized in our Judiciary.

Justice Stevens has deferred to international law on numerous occasions with respect to rendering a decision with respect to our laws.

I am very convinced, this type of change in our current system is a major attempt at instituting socialism, and usurping our autonomy, and weakening our Constitution.

I am not a gun owner, but truthfully, look at the international gun control movements.

This stuff is organized.

Islam has the funds and the ideology to push for Polygamy bigger than big. They all want to be like Mo with 4 wives of their own. It's real. As an attempted practicing 'Mormon' I have my concerns in that area as well since no matter how hard we want to have a squeaky PR campaign, polygamy was real 'back in the day'.

755 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:57:20pm

re: #750 formercorpsman

No white glove. You said that the two ideologies were inseparable. I assumed you meant conservatism and Christianity? Yet you just made a second comment defending traditional male-female marriage without invoking religion. Nor has my point that conservatism is belief in smaller government been refuted by you, or anyone else for that matter.

756 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:58:09pm

re: #749 formercorpsman

Well the Constitution is founded on rifles IMHO.

Rifles, when widespread, are good; they make a certain number of people, who would not otherwise, regard other people with respect.

If you want to get philosophical about it, rifles encourage the "I-Thou" of Martin Buber, instead of the "I-it."

But I think you know all that.

I post for the curious lurker that may some day join LGF.

757 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:58:26pm

re: #751 Zimriel

What is your definition of a social conservative?

758 scion9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 1:59:46pm

re: #749 formercorpsman


Seriously, polygamy is practiced in countries today. Countries that our country actually does business with, and works internationally with in the U.N.

There are countries in NATO that have legal polygamy. Polygamy is coming to the UK.

759 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:01:17pm

re: #751 Zimriel

I went back to the overnight thread and found this. I think you are very confused as to what is a "social conservative" if you think you are a so-con while hold these beliefs.

760 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:02:09pm

re: #740 Sharmuta

My point stands- conservatism is about smaller government.

Which leads back to my point, it would only increase the size of government by now requiring a whole set of statutes of recognition.

Just the plethora of court challenges alone, would be an exponential increase.

I am close to Philadelphia, but don't live there. We all know that moron John Street was Mayor until recently. He made an argument, when he first took office actually against paying out benefits for same sex relationships.

He point was the financial burden. Despite what anyone thinks, this would be a legitimate argument for both sides to take up. Not the typical Adam and Steve argument, etc.

Again, I am convinced, this is the shoehorn for socialism, hence, antithetical to small government.

761 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:03:18pm
762 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:03:57pm

re: #760 formercorpsman

I thought your point was the two ideologies are inseparable, yet you still haven't mentioned the Bible in your arguments against gay marriage.

763 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:04:26pm

Folks, my wife is yelling at me.

I will be back later, the kids are demanding we leave to see some high school musical movie.

I'll be back to check in later.

Take it easy.

764 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:04:37pm
765 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:05:17pm

re: #751 Zimriel

This is more likely out of ignorance than malice; Charles, for instance, probably doesn't spend a lot of time at NRO. But social conservatives can't help but be put off by attacks which are undeserved. If LGF won't take our side, where will we go? Obama? Jindal? (Gates of Vienna...?)

I will presume to speak for Charles - but just for myself...

I believe in God. I am a Christian. I have read and read the Bible. But, I do not accept the Bible verbatim for what I believe in - or to replace millenium of scientific study, analysis, and logic. Creationism is not science and does not belong being taught as science. In my youth, I learned science in school and the Biblical creation story in Sunday School...but even in Sunday school, I was not told that it was fact or eliminated / invalidated all that we learned from science.

Forcing creationism into schools replacing science - including evolution - is wrong. It, to me, is as wrong as embracing the Eurofascists (VB, GoV) in order to fight islamofascism. To make a point, to win a fight, we do not have to become what we fight.

When it comes to evolution / intelligent design - the reality of the thing is probably a combination of both. There is, in my opinion, elements of intelligent design in terms of what happened just before the Big Bang - and that evolution is part of that intelligent design...but we were not created 6000 years ago over 6 days. The science doesn't support that - and what science has yet to disprove can fit into a concept of intelligent design for those who believe in God.

766 scion9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:05:27pm

re: #761 ploome hineni

Yes, Sweden is quite crazy. The UK isn't far behind. However, there isn't anything in Swedish law that dictates that free practice of religion is a natural right, while in America there is.

767 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:06:01pm

However, now that Prop 8 has passed. I am not very concerned with the Polygamy thing for the next few years.

768 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:08:08pm

re: #765 Athos

I will NOT presume to speak for Charles

PIMF -
Charles, Sorry for that mistake.

769 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:11:59pm

re: #765 Athos

After reading Zim on the overnight thread, I question if Zim really is a so-con.

770 scion9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:13:06pm

re: #762 Sharmuta

I thought your point was the two ideologies are inseparable, yet you still haven't mentioned the Bible in your arguments against gay marriage.

I don't think that Christianity has anything to do with Conservatism directly, but looking towards tradition, culture and tried and true methods going forward rather than vigorous social experimentation certainly is. I am not a Christian, but the role religion has played, and Judeo-Christian values have played in the development of Western Civilization isn't something that can be ignored.

So, in that regard, the two ideologies are somewhat intertwined if not entirely. Most Americans believe in small government because it is what the founding fathers believed in, rather than their long hours spent studying political philosophy and social sciences. They are looking to history for answers.

771 Fredlike  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:13:23pm

re: #741 Zimriel

Unfortunately some companies and researchers do go around peer review funding straight to congress. Sometimes they have good reasons because people do get unfairly evaluated at times, but it does make a mess when they do. Congress does not allocate extra money for these items they just tell the agency to fund them, so someone who did get a competitive grant gets bumped to make room.

772 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:17:07pm

re: #770 scion9

I'm not denying any of religions influence on our culture in any way. I believe for the most part, religion in America has been a light to many. However- my point is that the political ideology of American conservatism is that of smaller government. There are people in the republican party that see the Bible as the foundation of conservatism, not the Constitution, and it is with this notion that I disagree.

773 BaseballMom57  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:17:50pm

re: #195 mahatma coat

not that anyone care...Ireland thumping Canada in the rugby 38-0
with 1/2 an hour to go

Woo hoo! (Irish, herself is.)

774 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:21:08pm

I didn't say I was convinced of anything. I just said I think there are stronger arguments against polygamy than there are against gay marriage.

I realize that, if you approve gay marriage, you have to have ironclad arguments for why a marriage of one woman/one man, one man/one man, or one woman/one woman is acceptable, but any other arrangement is not.

I also realize that "one man/one woman marriage is a tradition and foundation of our society" is a very strong argument. Societal traditions do change over time, however. I know any such changes cannot be taken lightly and many must be resisted and rejected, while a few must be vigorously championed (such as the ending of slavery and apartheid).

But if it's a scientific fact that homosexuality is not a choice, then I have a difficult time with denying a gay person the right to marry ONE partner of his/her choice.

I realize you may say, "But what if a person says he/she can't be happy with just ONE partner?" But the response can be made, one partner is fair for everyone. And we cannot ensure that everyone's rights are protected in a multiple-partner marriage, and the legal burden on society to ensure everyone's rights are protected in such an arrangement is unacceptable.

As to the approval of gay marriage prompting lawsuits and international interference in our affairs to bring about the approval of polygamous marriage as well, again, I think that's why you'd have to make the arguments crystal clear as to why only two partner (consenting human adults both, of course) marriages are acceptable and polygamous marriage (as well as child-child, adult-child, and human-animal) is not.

I don't think, though, that you can reject even the consideration of gay marriage solely on the basis that you believe it will prompt lawsuits and international interference in an attempt to promote recognition of still other types of marriages.


re: #749 formercorpsman

You are really convinced, once gay marriage is legal, the courts won't be burdened with these types of law suites?

Seriously, polygamy is practiced in countries today. Countries that our country actually does business with, and works internationally with in the U.N.

There is a major movement out there to have international laws recognized in our Judiciary.

Justice Stevens has deferred to international law on numerous occasions with respect to rendering a decision with respect to our laws.

I am very convinced, this type of change in our current system is a major attempt at instituting socialism, and usurping our autonomy, and weakening our Constitution.

I am not a gun owner, but truthfully, look at the international gun control movements.

This stuff is organized.

775 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:24:41pm

re: #770 scion9

In my interpretation of conservatism - it is the acceptance and embracing of the core values of the United States - that started with the Founding Fathers and its documents - The Declaration of Independence and the Consitution of the United States as well as the core beliefs and foundation of civilization that came from our culture and history.

Among these core values are freedom and liberty without class or restrictions based on race, creed, or ethnicity as well as a separation of church and state - advocating neither the adoption of a state religion or the elimination of the freedom for one to embrace the religious belief or non belief of their choice.

776 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:26:40pm

re: #751 Zimriel

Fighting that fight, indeed we are.

But I worry that some moderates on our side are misrepresenting the views of social and fiscal conservatives. This is more likely out of ignorance than malice; Charles, for instance, probably doesn't spend a lot of time at NRO. But social conservatives can't help but be put off by attacks which are undeserved. If LGF won't take our side, where will we go? Obama? Jindal? (Gates of Vienna...?)

Please don't push us out, Charles

I have to come back to this. On the overnight thread you said:

Also, there are many "socons" on this site who are anti-Roe (justified as a constitutional issue) and also anti-school-prayer and anti-school-creationism (for the same reason).

If true- then these are not so-cons. These are what so-cons would call RINOs and they are the people that the so-cons are trying to push out of the party. I really think you need to re-evaluate exactly what sort of a conservative you are and who is pushing who out of what.

777 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:26:59pm

I believe in the development of the universe from the first 10^-43 seconds of creation. (Before that is unknowable under our science...)
I believe in evolution unguided by an "intelligent designer".
I believe in evolution after mitochondrial Eve. Intelligence is hereditary.
I believe in the "Bell Curve".
I believe that male homosexuality is innate.
I believe that climate change is not notably driven by CO2. (Methane, though, possibly.)

*I believe in the Church as defined in the Nicene Creed.

I believe that all morality flows from the inalienable sanctity of human life.
I believe that marriage is defined as one man, one woman of legal age and of sound mind.
I believe that abortion may be justified to save the mother's life (on the principle of self-defense) and to punish a rapist (on the principle of the Just War).

I believe in the Constitution as a pact between states.
I believe in strict constructionism for its interpretation.
I believe Roe v Wade is judicial overreach. As are Kelo, and Bakke, and various medical-marijuana decisions.

I believe in a social policy that recognises all of this, except the starred axiom. Because I believe that all of these beliefs before the axiom are testable hypotheses with the preponderance of evidence on their side. The beliefs after the axiom are social values that go beyond Catholic teaching, and should be universal self-evident truths. The last set flow from belief in English common-law.

That is what makes me a pro-science social conservative.

778 eaglewingz08  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:28:32pm

For the past few years, I have gone about my business, hanging out with my kids and, now, my grandchildren, taking care of our elders (they moved in as the kids moved out), going to work, teaching and writing. And every day, I participate in the never-ending effort to build a powerful and irresistible movement for peace and social justice.

In years past, I would now and then – and often unpredictably – appear in the newspapers or on TV, sometimes with a reference to Fugitive Days, my 2001 memoir of the exhilarating and difficult years of resistance against the American war in Vietnam.

Then came this political season.

Priceless. But perhaps Mr. Ayers and the Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers should have read a couple of books in additon to Mao's Red Book, Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and Das Kapital, and in reading these other books Ayers might have come across these bon mots (bourgeois though they may be):

Do not do unto others that which you would not want done unto you!

Gee what a concept.

As thou soweth, so shall ye reap!

Sorry but I haveth no symptathies for thee Terrorist Bill Ayers! Once a terrorist always a terrorist.
And no, you didn't just protest the Vietnam War. Prarie Fire was quite specific that was just one minor battle in a much grander genocidal scheme. Ayers is a putrid sack of excrement and I will never respect Obama and Michelle for associating with such creatures.

779 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:28:56pm

The Zimriel Manifesto, "Post #777".

I didn't intend that :^)

780 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:29:23pm

re: #777 Zimriel

I think you're confused. So-cons would call you a RINO.

781 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:31:15pm

re: #751 Zimriel

Fighting that fight, indeed we are.

But I worry that some moderates on our side are misrepresenting the views of social and fiscal conservatives. This is more likely out of ignorance than malice; Charles, for instance, probably doesn't spend a lot of time at NRO. But social conservatives can't help but be put off by attacks which are undeserved. If LGF won't take our side, where will we go? Obama? Jindal? (Gates of Vienna...?)

Please don't push us out, Charles

ya think.
really I don't care about ID. I really don't know a hell of a lot about it. It may very well belong in a comparative religion class or philosophy class. but hell, just about everything I was taught about evolution 20 plus years ago is gone - the proofs were flawed. certainly do not like it being forwarded as fact rather than the best theory going.
It is now a religion among too many - a presumed fact that too many are seeking to bolster, rather than a theory to be proved or disproved and that's bad science.
Also do not like it being suggested that the "fact of evolution" disproves the hand of G_d somehow - a priori, the whole origin of the universe thing and basic life started somehow independent of any divine influence influence or otherwise...just as stupid as anything.
The rabid evolutionists really need to take a good hard look at themselves when they bark about religious nuts.

782 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:31:25pm

re: #743 Zimriel

Does Charles owe Palin and other pro-science socons a retraction and apology? Yes, I believe he does.

No, I don't owe anyone an apology for expressing my opinion, and I'm very unimpressed with NRO's effort to spin Palin's comment.

783 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:32:25pm

Honest so-cons, even theo-cons would recognise me as one of their own. Theo-crats have no ally in me.

784 eaglewingz08  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:32:47pm

Just a question how is human life 'sanctified' if there is no 'Sanctifier'?
And if there is no "Sanctifier" why is human life worth any more than the original amoeba that got its act together, other than by appeals to human hubris?

785 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:33:41pm

re: #783 Zimriel

I beg to differ. You do not support creationism in science class, school prayer, and have allowances for abortion. You're a RINO in their eyes.

786 BaseballMom57  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:34:41pm

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787 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:36:02pm

If not an apology, how about an apologia? Could you explain why Palin's attack was anti-research, rather than a response to a petty attempt to grab quick cash from taxpayers (as NRO is asserting)?

And spidly, you're not helping.

788 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:37:37pm

Zim- so-cons are the ones who would like to push people like Charles out of the party. It's kind of offensive you think it's the other way around.

789 BaseballMom57  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:37:46pm

And the website for AVG anti-virus is [Link: www.grisoft.com...] Just make sure you get the FREE version. You need to follow savemybutt's instructions on getting rid of any Norton products first, though.

And Spybot Search & Destroy is an awesome program as well.

790 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:37:48pm

re: #781 spidly

but hell, just about everything I was taught about evolution 20 plus years ago is gone - the proofs were flawed. certainly do not like it being forwarded as fact rather than the best theory going.
It is now a religion among too many - a presumed fact that too many are seeking to bolster, rather than a theory to be proved or disproved and that's bad science.

Let me ask you something. I don't want to upset you or anger you or anything. It's just that I have seen very few productive discussions on the evolution/creation issue, and I'd love to participate in one.

Are you willing to be shown to be wrong in your statement above? Are you willing to listen to what I have to say about it, and perhaps reconsider your opinion?

Also do not like it being suggested that the "fact of evolution" disproves the hand of G_d somehow - a priori, the whole origin of the universe thing and basic life started somehow independent of any divine influence influence or otherwise...just as stupid as anything.
The rabid evolutionists really need to take a good hard look at themselves when they bark about religious nuts.

I would also like to address this statement. Are you willing to really listen to what I have to say?

791 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:38:38pm

re: #787 Zimriel

If not an apology, how about an apologia? Could you explain why Palin's attack was anti-research, rather than a response to a petty attempt to grab quick cash from taxpayers (as NRO is asserting)?

And spidly, you're not helping.

I've already explained this. It was a populist comment, intended to pander to anti-science and anti-French sentiment, to get a cheap round of applause. And it was stunningly ignorant of the benefits of Drosophila research.

It got her the applause and laughter she was looking for.

792 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:42:10pm
793 BaseballMom57  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:42:28pm

re: #340 realwest

You need to get rid of Norton - STAT. The thing is a resource hog, and AVG finds more and updates more. I had the priciest Norton there was a few years ago until I went to savemybutt.com. I ran Norton, it found nothing. Uninstalled it and installed the FREE AVG. It found two trojans, a worm, and a whole host of other crap. I will NEVER use Norton again.

794 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:43:55pm

re: #783 Zimriel

Honest so-cons, even theo-cons would recognise me as one of their own. Theo-crats have no ally in me.

You're parsing words to fit your argument. I agree with Sharm on this one.

795 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:44:58pm

re: #794 Athos

A lot of hard line evangelicals don't even think Catholics are real Christians.

796 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:51:04pm

re: #795 Sharmuta

Exactly, only other hard line evangelicals are real Christians in their minds...only they don't consider themselves as 'hard line' either...just devout.

797 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:53:48pm

re: #791 Charles

didn't realize I was drafted to help. Do I get 4 grand toward college?
I just got back from the gym and picked up on a comment that spun off something about Palin which I have not read, so I cannot even comment on what she has said or done. I was just commenting in response to another comment, stating I see some of the evolutionists being exactly what they accuse others of being - rabid ideologues.

Maybe I was blessed with good chemistry and physics profs, but they were were far more skeptical about what is arguably more tangible. We were often reminded that these are theories, these are mnemonics, this math is descriptive and is not truth in itself... reminded that the dead certain "truth" of these things has been altered before and altered again. I never had any prof suggest that we've discovered the origin of the universe or that G_d is dead. So, I just wish evolution were treated just as scientifically and dispassionately.

Again, don't know about ID. Probably belongs somewhere in philosophy or ethics of science class.

798 stevieray  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:55:39pm

re: #664 Charles

I have to admit, Sarah Palin lost me when she made that stunningly ignorant remark about "fruit fly research in France."

I can't respect that kind of anti-science pandering to the lowest common denominator. I gave her much more than the benefit of the doubt, and defended her against the smear that she wanted creationism taught in schools, but that remark really soured my enthusiasm.

Charles:

Have you read this lecture from Michael Crichton?

I agree with his point; the marriage of science with political activism is the biggest threat that science faces today.

The creationists get their well deserved smack, but he pulls out the big guns on the alliance between scientists and political do-gooders, who seek to manipulate science to promote their agendas -- agendas that may be desirable, even a "no-brainer" at times, but agendas that are socio-political, not scientific, at their core.

And since he wrote this lecture a few years ago, he didn't really touch on the latest threat to science -- the new fourth-wave feminist idea that "evidence" and "logic" are paternalistic, and therefore should be replaced with more holistic methods such as "intuition". [Yes, they are real, and deeply embedded in our universities... prime placement to infect the education of future scientists. They are an undisguised force for pre-enlightenment values -- a return to superstition -- and they have powerful friends all throughout academia.]

The anti-science populism of folks like Sarah Palin is easy to see, but the unrecognized truth is that the manipulation and corruption of science is far more prevalent by the social engineers of the left, and is unlikely to be noticed due to the scientific illiteracy of the MSM.

That is where the biggest danger lies.

799 BaseballMom57  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:56:46pm

re: #545 wahabicorridor

I had my heart set on Fred Thompson - guess he just didn't have that fire in his belly.

So did I, and unfortunately, no he didn't.

800 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 2:59:50pm

re: #784 eaglewingz08

Just a question how is human life 'sanctified' if there is no 'Sanctifier'?
And if there is no "Sanctifier" why is human life worth any more than the original amoeba that got its act together, other than by appeals to human hubris?

I looked over Zimriel's manifesto, and he doesn't say he doesn't believe in God. He accepts the Nicene creed. Sounds like a believer to me.

As for me, an atheist, your question is ridiculous. How is it "hubris" for me to think my and other human lives are worth more than an amoebas', whether or not God has said so?

We can think and feel and consider the universe. We are aware of our mortality. We can make choices and conduct our lives with dignity and honor. Even those of us who are vegetables nevertheless have this potential within them.

I respect animals and I see no reason for us to mistreat or abuse them needlessly. I don't think we're "superior" to them, but I don't think saying a human life is worth more than an animal life is the same as saying human life is "superior" to animal life.

Pretend for a moment there is no God. Do you now immediately feel that your life is worthless, that your love for your family is meaningless, and that you want to go out and kill some stranger just for the thrill of it? Somehow I don't think so.

And do you still wash your hands with germ-killing soap, slaughtering millions of the tiny mindless creatures without pity?

I think it is kind of sad that a human being could believe his/her life, or that of other human beings, has no more value than that of a non-sentient creature, simply because no God has said so.

I would never decide to save the life of an animal over the life of a human being (well, if it was Hitler, I'd probably think differently). I might under some extraordinary circumstance sacrifice my life to save an animal, but to me, that would validate the value I place on my life, not demonstrate that I think the animal's life has the same value as mine.

801 BaseballMom57  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:00:37pm

re: #579 abolitionist

He said comment, not account.

For some reason I just heard Rosanna Rosannadanna in my head:

"Oh. Never mind."

802 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:04:24pm

re: #790 Tigger2005

sure.
I don't think we disagree on anything. I still think evolution is the best thing we got going. My beef is with the approach.

803 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:21:15pm

re: #669 Killgore Trout

I think it was a real mistke that she never corrected that gaffe. I checked for days to see if she'd issue a correction and never found anything.

Damn fine reason to not vote for McCain/Palin
/

804 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:24:44pm

If people are looking a candidate and running mate that fulfill 100% of their agenda 100% of the time , it just ain't going to happen.

There isn't even anyone in ~this~ forum that agrees with anyone else 100% of the time on all the issues.

805 kynna  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:28:07pm

This column in Front Page by David Horowitz starts out with some good thoughts on the Palin/fruit fly kerfuffle. He goes on to say all the things about Obama that we already know (it's a dated article), but he's got a good point that I think was lost in all the emotion of fruit fly research and autism.

As I've said before, I have a child with autism, and I'm fine with research, but I am not fine with any-means-necessary funding of every-program-possible-just-because-it's-science. There are more appropriate means to fund the fruit fly study (an agro issue which prompted the earmark BTW and not autism research).

Palin obviously didn't know about the autism research. (I didn't either. I've read a lot, but much of it is crap to tell the truth.) But if she's who I think she is, she would still oppose the means by which funding was attained. I would too.

806 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:48:24pm

re: #781 spidly

ya think.
really I don't care about ID. I really don't know a hell of a lot about it. It may very well belong in a comparative religion class or philosophy class.


This is just an aside, but in regard to I.D., I don't think it has anyplace at all in schools. Sure, nothing wrong with talking about some divine role in how we got to be here, in a comparative religion or philosophy class as you said. But I.D., itself, is just a slicker version of the scientific creationism that was rejected by the courts in the 80's. It's an underhanded, stealth weapon, part of an attempt to slip religious belief into science classes, circumventing the Establishment clause. The sheer dishonesty of it, IMO, disqualifies it from having any place anywhere in a school curriculum--unless, of course, the discussion is ABOUT exactly what it is. The problem is when people treat it like it's an innocent philosophy or something, rather than the deeply dishonest pseudoscience it is. This gives it a legitimacy it doesn't deserve.

but hell, just about everything I was taught about evolution 20 plus years ago is gone - the proofs were flawed.

No, the original evidence for evolution has not changed, and huge amounts of additional evidence supporting it (including DNA evidence) have accumulated since Darwin proposed it. We know what causes mutations, something Darwin could only guess at. We have many more transitional fossils and some near-complete transitional chains.

Some common "proofs" of evolution found in high school science textbooks (which can't be taken as too representative of the actual state of scientific research) have certainly been de-emphasized because they were not entirely accurate, such as the "ontology recapitulates phylogeny" illustrations and the mostly white moths whose offspring got darker over time (the darker offspring surviving and reproducing and the lighter ones dying off because white-barked trees in the area became blackened with soot, and the white moths were more easily picked off by birds). However, while there were some inaccuracies in these "proofs," my understanding is that they weren't entirely discredited either. You might want to look them up on talkorigins.org for the full story. In any case, these were very minor matters in the larger scheme of things. The case for evolution in no way hung on them. They were just a couple of textbook examples that turned out not to be the best (or rather, were presented incorrectly).

"Punctuated equilibrium" is another thing that's often portrayed as a big "ah ha!" thing by anti-evolution types, like "boy, they sure had it all wrong didn't they (regarding the fossil record, since it still has so many gaps), and now they have to come up with this big new theory to fix it!" But actually "punk eek" only moderately modified the theory and did not change it in any really fundamental way. Mainly it proposes that evolution proceeds at different rates depending on the environment, rather than everything changing smoothly at a constant rate. Actually Darwin suspected that might be the case.

My point here is, the foundational evidence for evolution is sound and has not been discredited in any way, a great deal of additional evidence and support of the same and new types (such as DNA) has been found in the meantime, and, like in all sciences, the pace of discovery has accelerated in the last 30-40 years so the theory is constantly being modified and added to but not fundamentally changed. Some "proofs" found in textbooks have been found wanting and have been dropped, but evolutionary theory itself never hinged on those proofs. Certainly evolution has not been weakened in any way ... it is one of the best supported and strongest scientific theories there is.

(cont)

807 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:00:17pm

re: #791 Charles

I've already explained this. It was a populist comment, intended to pander to anti-science and anti-French sentiment, to get a cheap round of applause. And it was stunningly ignorant of the benefits of Drosophila research.

It got her the applause and laughter she was looking for.

I'll accept this. Tone matters. "I believe tha-" ... *koff*, um, in my opinion stating one's position and explaining it lucidly is better than mindless snark. Palin dropped the ball here.

Apologies for my assholery, Charles

808 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:03:49pm

re: #806 Tigger2005

good enough

809 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:04:34pm

re: #785 Sharmuta

I beg to differ. You do not support creationism in science class, school prayer, and have allowances for abortion. You're a RINO in their eyes.

(emphasis mine)

SMOKE WHAT?!?!? Since when does creationism, or the lack of it, in public school have anything at all to do with Conservatism?!?

Most RINOs are big-government donkeys-in-elephant-costumes!

810 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:07:46pm

re: #792 Iron Fist

The gays really, really blew it when they got the Court to piss in the voter's face over this issue. People were, understandably angry about it, and what you get is Prop 8. If the Court becomes too unpopular, then Constitutional Amendments are the only place left to go for redress.

Laws can be repealed, but the Constitution once amended, stays that way until the position has changed enough to get another amendment through.

That isn't likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

They're trying to get the amendment nullified in court, though, by claiming it was placed on the ballot improperly or some such thing. I don't remember the details, I just remember it was something procedural that they're crying foul over.

811 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:12:01pm

re: #793 BaseballMom57

You need to get rid of Norton - STAT. The thing is a resource hog, and AVG finds more and updates more. I had the priciest Norton there was a few years ago until I went to savemybutt.com. I ran Norton, it found nothing. Uninstalled it and installed the FREE AVG. It found two trojans, a worm, and a whole host of other crap. I will NEVER use Norton again.

The computer-tech-business guy I was going to be working for told me the same thing about Norton ages ago... and he used to SELL it! Now, he too is totally loyal to stuff like Avast and Spybot, and directs people to steer way clear of Norton.

Unfortunately, this is the same guy who ever so slowly went howling moonbat on me... :-/

812 Zimriel  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:14:21pm

re: #794 Athos

You're parsing words to fit your argument. I agree with Sharm on this one.

Language is important. Language is my argument. All the "social" clause in "socon" implies that ethics and morals are legitimate reasons to get into politics. I don't include sectarian dogma, like ID, the Nicene Creed, or even "under God" in a "social conservative" movement. People who believe in this are welcome to join, as long as they distinguish between morals and dogma.

813 LC HOGHEAD  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:20:03pm

OT but good


If only our current leaders had the nerve

Some good advice that probably won't be followed from James G. Wiles about what the Republicans in Washington should do in the waning days of the Bush Administration.

And now, a thought experiment: what would Rahm Emanuel do if he had Congressman John Boehner's job as House Minority Leader?
That's easy. Put as many long-range torpedoes into the water aimed at Senator Obama's ship of state before Republicans lose control of the Executive Branch as possible. Here are a few:

*Appoint U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois Patrick Fitzpatrick as a special prosecutor so he can pursue his investigation of Tony Rezko and his corrupt dealings with Illinois's governor and other creatures and spoilsmen of the Daley Machine. This will make it politically difficult for a President Obama to pardon Mr. Rezko and impossible for him to terminate Mr. Fitzpatrick as a federal officer come January 21 as a way of de-railing this investigation.

* Appoint a special prosecutor to investigate ACORN's voter registration methods and its dealings with the Obama campaign.

* Appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the Obama campaign's on-line fundraising operation, including its disabling of the credit card security software on its on-line donations system. File a complaint with the Federal Election Commission regarding same.

* Appoint a bipartisan (love that word!) presidential commission to review the candidates' fundraising in this election cycle and to recommend changes in federal election laws.

File ethics complaints against Sen. Chris Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank for their relationship with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Countrywide Mortgage.

Be it noted that, in his day, this is probably what Newt Gingrich would have done, too. It was then-Congressman Gingrich's persistent filing of ethics complaints against then-House Speaker Jim Wright, D Texas, which eventually brought Speaker Wright down and made possible the Republicans' re-taking of Congress in 1994 on the platform of the Contract with America.


ht: Instapundit

814 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:24:56pm

re: #809 NomadOfNorad

SMOKE WHAT?!?!? Since when does creationism, or the lack of it, in public school have anything at all to do with Conservatism?!?

Most RINOs are big-government donkeys-in-elephant-costumes!

It has NOTHING to do with conservatism. But don't tell me that- tell the so-cons.

815 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:41pm

re: #812 Zimriel

Language is important. Language is my argument. All the "social" clause in "socon" implies that ethics and morals are legitimate reasons to get into politics. I don't include sectarian dogma, like ID, the Nicene Creed, or even "under God" in a "social conservative" movement. People who believe in this are welcome to join, as long as they distinguish between morals and dogma.

You are still confused. The religious right has most certainly confused your distinction.

You may want to reconsider your status as a so-con, because I'm fairly certain if you're not going to push ID or school prayer, they will not consider you one of them.

816 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:50:06pm

re: #814 Sharmuta

It has NOTHING to do with conservatism. But don't tell me that- tell the so-cons.

And your understanding of what "so-con" means and how so-cons think comes from...?

(To be honest, I don't remember ever having seen the term "so-con" until this thread... What other kind(s) of -cons are there? I know there's also "neo-cons," which is also a term I've heard seen defined in different ways by different people... sometimes pejoratively.)

817 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:51:16pm

PIMF!

Drop the "heard" out of "heard seen" leaving just "seen" above.

818 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:54:55pm

re: #816 NomadOfNorad

so-cons is short for social conservatives. For me, so-cons are concerned with a social agenda predominately focusing on the religious. They are the faction of the party pushing ID/creationism, school prayer and a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion.

What I think conservatism is, is smaller government and I agree with your definition of a RINO, but the so-cons don't. To them a RINO is anyone who doesn't push their religious agenda.

819 Ledger1  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:04:45pm

re: #813 LC HOGHEAD

Appoint a special prosecutor to investigate ACORN's voter registration methods and its dealings with the Obama campaign.

Appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the Obama campaign's on-line fundraising operation, including its disabling of the credit card security software on its on-line donations system. File a complaint with the Federal Election Commission regarding same.

Yes, it should be done.

Although Fitzpatrick has a colorful record I am not going to hold my breath for him to investigate Obama. He is just too close to the Chi-town machine. I hope will be done none the less.

I will say that there is considerable suspicion on the “youth vote” and whether it was bought by ACORN.

No word on how the Military vote - or if their votes were counted.

And, there are still questions of exactly how many people voted, where and for whom. The best graphical information shows that most of the counties are still Republican, but huge cities like Los Angeles voted for the dems.

I am suspicious of the numbers from LA because of past corruption problems.

Here are good graphs of the election:

[From GP]

Graphical popular vote count of USA

Margin of victory graph from 1908 to present

See GP: Red America- Blue America County Maps & Totals

820 Tigger2005  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:06:22pm

re: #808 spidly

good enough

Had a bit more:

certainly do not like it being forwarded as fact rather than the best theory going.

'Theory' in science does not have the same meaning as it does in popular usage. It is not speculation or even an educated guess. In science, an educated guess is a hypothesis. When a hypothesis has been strongly supported by evidence, observation, experiment, subjected to peer review and duplication, and proves useful and predictive, it may become part of a larger theory, or be promoted to a theory itself, like the Theory of Relativity. A scientific theory is a well-supported explanation for a given phenomenon or set of phenomena.

Scientific theories are basically explanations that have been accepted as facts because they are so well-supported by evidence. And by its strictest definition (a change in allele frequencies over time) evolution is unquestionably a fact. Even creationists don't deny that evolution (limited evolution, of course) occurs.

It is now a religion among too many - a presumed fact that too many are seeking to bolster, rather than a theory to be proved or disproved and that's bad science.

As stated above, an explanation or hypothesis in science doesn't become a theory until it HAS been subject to rigorous testing to the point that it can essentially be regarded as a fact. Evolution has been subjected to extremely rigorous testing for many decades and has passed every test. Scientists and especially biologists don't accept it on faith, but on the evidence. Biologists find evolution extremely useful because it allows them to make accurate predictions. It tells them what to look for and expect in a given environment ... "if there's this, then we'll probably find this."

Evolution is in fact very good science, and it certainly doesn't need any "bolstering" or "propping up." But there's also no compelling reason to try to "disprove" it any more. If nothing has been found to discredit it in 150 years common sense says nothing will be. But evolution detractors are more than welcome to try. Unfortunately I.D. "researchers" like Dembski and Behe don't seem willing to do much research to back up their claims. Behe looks at so and so and says "it's irreducibly complex" and that seems to be enough for him. Other scientists looked into this claim further and found quite logical pathways by which irreducibly complex systems can evolve. They even found precursors to Behe's bacterial flagellum. So, attempts to "disprove" evolution CAN inspire scientists to do research on previously neglected aspects of the theory, or on how certain things evolved--but it's likely these things would eventually have been addressed anyway. I suppose as an exercise, looking at evolution with a bit more "skeptical" attitude could generate some interesting lines of research. Nevertheless evolution IS a demonstrated fact, and researchers regard it only as such, not as a religion they accept on faith.

Also do not like it being suggested that the "fact of evolution" disproves the hand of G_d somehow - a priori, the whole origin of the universe thing and basic life started somehow independent of any divine influence influence or otherwise...just as stupid as anything.

The theory of evolution actually does not include the origin of life, it just explains how life diversified once it got started. It says nothing about the beginning of the universe or how life got started in the first place.

Of course there are a few outspoken atheist and anti-religion scientists who use evolution, among other things, to try to disprove God's existence. They're a minority. While you may not like them suggesting such things, they do, of course, have the right to express their opinions ...and you have the right to call their opinions stupid.

821 descolada9  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:08:53pm

re: #660 Athos

Ultimately he will. Whether he stands up or not. Oh, now that the election is over, the MSM will love him again - but he's as damaged as Dole was in 1996 when it comes to his legacy.

Oh, he damaged his legacy/rep with conservatives long before this election cycle.

822 Mel Lono  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:14:57pm

re: #702 Who Watches the Watchmen?

There either needs to be a breakaway party or constitutionally limited government Republicans need to join the LP.

The Federalist Party would suit me.

823 NomadOfNorad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:24:27pm

re: #818 Sharmuta

so-cons is short for social conservatives. For me, so-cons are concerned with a social agenda predominately focusing on the religious. They are the faction of the party pushing ID/creationism, school prayer and a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion.

What I think conservatism is, is smaller government and I agree with your definition of a RINO, but the so-cons don't. To them a RINO is anyone who doesn't push their religious agenda.

Ah. Okay. So what is your impression of the percentage of RINOs, of so-cons, and of traditional conservatives in the Republican party of today?

824 farblonjet  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:42pm

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman (woo), they are the eggmen (woo), I am the walrus,
Coo coo, kachoo.

Mister City P'liceman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row.
See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run.
I'm crying.
I'm cry, I'm crying, I'm cry, I'm crying.

Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl and you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman (woo), they are the eggmen (woo), I am the walrus,
Coo coo, kachoo.

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don't come, you get a tan from
Standing in the English rain.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
Coo coo kachoo ka coo coo kachoo.

Expert texpert choking smokers,
Don't you think the joker laughs at you? (ho ho ho, he he he, ha ha ha)
See how they smile like pigs in a sty, see how they snide.
I'm crying.

Semolina Pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hare Krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
Coo coo kachoo ka coo coo kachoo
(rhythmical speaking along with juba's).
Juba juba juba, juba, juba, juba, juba, juba, juba juba. Juba juba...
(speaking)

-The Beatles

825 rightsideup  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:19:59pm

re: #76 DistantThunder

The average person has few defenses against an experienced con-man. Obama, like clinton deal in deception.

I could probably go to Children's Hospital and Philly, find some poor mom and dad - and convincingly talk them into some herbal cure.

Con men can lie without the usual signs of stress and deception. They know how to psychologically disarm the average defenseless person.

Yes, so much so that they can pass lie detectors!

This site is a wonderful resource on sociopaths/con men: [Link: groups.msn.com...]

It is estimated that three to four percent of the population are sociopaths. Where you might find them in higher than normal concentrations: politicians, divorce lawyers, teachers, law enforcement...

Learn to spot a trickster: [Link: www.infowest.com...]

Once you know what to look for, they become easier to spot.

Good book: The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker!

826 justadot  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:02:14pm

re: #791 Charles

Exactly. Levin's argument is at least a legitimate criticism — that's not what I saw in that video. I thought it was cheap. Palin didn't lose me, but she did disappoint me.

827 LEGION  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 8:41:39pm

re: #819 Ledger1

Good, now I can formulate a good place to move!

828 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:33:33pm

re: #727 formercorpsman

Sharmuta, I am one of those people who think that whether you want to separate the 2 ideologies, it is all but impossible.

It is obvious, that there a couple of prominent issues that have come to the forefront within the conservative party.

With respect to gay marriage, the infringement has the ability to impose itself upon both sides of the coin. I was involved in this discussion some months ago here. I do my best, to argue my points of view outside of any religious feeling I might have.

The problem I see with this particular issue, aside from the near pitbull special interest out there litigating for this movement, is how do you stop the ball from rolling after this becomes legal?

One of the major arguments from the proponents of gay marriage, is "what defines a family"?

Good argument. Families do come in many different forms anymore.

Do we really think, once gay marriage becomes legal, within a year or two, we will not see the petition in our courts to then recognize a union with a bisexual arrangement? For everything we think will never happen here, realize, this is already in the frying pan in Europe.

Furthermore, once this is redefined, what leg does the Constitution have to stand on with respect to polygamy? I am dead serious about this. The argument has already been made. What defines a family?

One of the strongest arguments here about fighting creationism being taught in science classes is the dilution of what the accepted norms are, and inclusion opens the door for other cultural differences with diametrical opposition to western civilization to gain a foothold.

Seriously, once this is done, how do you defend against the new immigrant who wants a harem? That is his version of family.

a fascinating topic but I think there is an even more fundamental question here:

If you believe that gay people have the right to marry would you be worried about opening up the proverbial Pandora's box or would you be focused on helping gay people get the rights that you believe they justly deserve?

829 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:53:09pm

re: #755 Sharmuta

No white glove. You said that the two ideologies were inseparable. I assumed you meant conservatism and Christianity? Yet you just made a second comment defending traditional male-female marriage without invoking religion. Nor has my point that conservatism is belief in smaller government been refuted by you, or anyone else for that matter.

No, I was talking about what has been a topic of conversation within the Republican Party as of late. The 2 ideologies being Fiscal Conservatism and Social Conservatism.

It has been my opinion, social liberalism leads to fiscal liberalism.

Actually, the ACLU has already challenged the Constitutionality of the illegality of polygamy, IIRC, it is still on appeal. Just look up Brian Barnard.

My rationale is this.

Take something like Social Security, enacted in 1935 under the New Deal. It is the biggest total expenditure of our Federal Budget. To really put this in its brightest light, it is the largest Government Program in the world.

The number of people paying into this system at the inception, combined with the actual number getting benefits has become sharply diametrical in their positions since then.

Right now, before the major influx of the baby boomers yet to retire, the program is on track to be in serious trouble by 2014 with just the current numbers.

(I for one, think this is the best example of social liberalism meeting at the cross-roads with fiscal conservatism)

Take the fact that now having increased the potential number of people who draw benefits, (I won't include those who have worked, and paid into it, despite their orientation, which would not be fair) we have a net effect on the debit side.

I for one, don't see how anyone would have a leg to stand on, once gay marriage is legal, to then turn around argue why any other form, or arrangement would be improper, or have the Constitution working in their favor to stop further challenges. At that point, truthfully, what is marriage? The precedent for change has already been set, with the lawyers, and Judiciary pointing to this fact.

You being a fiscal conservative, I am sure would be familiar with Milton Friedman's positions on Social Security. I think my assertion as to the public burden from not only the issue of gay marriage, but socially liberal policies like amnesty for illegal immigration go directly to the heart of the social liberal / fiscal conservative argument.

830 formercorpsman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:23:41pm

re: #828 gman

gman, we have been here before. Now you are laying the straw man argument down.

I have admitted up front, many times, I am pretty much live and let live, but would mostly fall into the social conservative category, and I make no apologies for it.

Nice try, but you are trying to put words in my mouth.

a fascinating topic but I think there is an even more fundamental question here:

If you believe that gay people have the right to marry would you be worried about opening up the proverbial Pandora's box or would you be focused on helping gay people get the rights that you believe they justly deserve?

I never implied any of what you assert in this statement. As well, I don't think by not being in favor of gay marriage, automatically equates to the argument of me caring what people do in the privacy of their own homes either. I was all for taking Draconian Sodomy laws off the books. Stupid legislation.

I think a large portion of this group of soc/cons will acquiesce all of the provisions that would be included with marriage, but under a different name. Civil Union. I have heard other Lizard's opinions on this, and they feel if you have all but that last definition, what is the point to hold out? I understand why someone would see it this way, but I respectfully disagree. I hope this can still be done in this day and age.

I have already seen this argument, actually, it was akin to the recent riots by gay advocates in West Hollywood, claiming that by voting against gay marriage in the recent election, this was somehow the religious fanatics coming into their bedrooms. An invasion of privacy.

It is not. Not in the least. It is no more an invasion of privacy, than the lobby who goes around the country, looking to introduce, and educate my first grader to alternative lifestyles.

It is an argument that has gone from 40 years ago being tolerant of this lifestyle, to more of a forced acceptance by society.

Furthermore, I think we can all agree, California in no way can be construed as the national barometer for social conservatism. Quite the contrary. Prop 8, was supported by many different people, over and above social conservatives. As well, I think we can all roll the tape back, and recall during the VP debates, both candidates came out against gay marriage.

Not just the socially conservative Palin.

831 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:38:30pm

re: #830 formercorpsman

If you believe that gay people have the right to marry would you be worried about opening up the proverbial Pandora's box or would you be focused on helping gay people get the rights that you believe they justly deserve?

When I use the word "you" in my question, I use it in the "universal" sense of the word not to imply you directly.

Now thinking of this topic from a more universal perspective, if someone believed that gay people had the right to get married do you really think they would care about the history of the issue or what candidate supported it. No, they would need to be convinced on more specific terms that gay people do not have the same rights as those that are not gay.

832 wiffersnapper  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:58:06pm

The Dollardites at patdollard.com refuse to believe the truth about this BC fiasco, which disappoints me, a fellow dollardite.

833 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 12:13:37am

I have no opinion on this birth certificate issue, but I wonder why Daniel Pipes thinks it is noteworthy:

"Then, to round out this decidedly unusual electoral season, there is the matter of what I call history's largest stink-bomb – the question of Obama's birth in Hawaii and his eligibility to serve as president of the United States. Although the mainstream media has almost unanimously ignored the Philip Berg lawsuit wending its way through the legal system, Obama's reluctance to settle this issue simply by providing the proper documentation makes one wonder if really he can do so. Should he not, the implications are breathtaking."

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

834 formercorpsman  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 9:22:43am

re: #831 gman

Fair enough on the clarification.

Your argument on how the history is viewed or accepted, or whether or not a "right" is for me is the pablum.

Again, this circles around to my whole argument as to how all factors come into play, and ultimately affect people on a personal level whether we like it or not.

For me, I do see the Republic party much like the Democrat party for about the last ten years. There is a fight going on. A fight for the future of the party platform. Many of the SC/FC want the SC aspect of the platform to play a much less significant part of the platform itself. I fully understand their reasons why, they believe it will gain moderate votes, and that true conservatism is more like Libertarianism.

I think we can put this into play at another time in our history.

I am fully convinced, that we would not have arrived early on in the founding of this Nation, the blight slavery had put upon us. It was specifically the religious motive in political form which made us deal with this as a social issue. The religious were also instrumental in the Civil Rights era as well.

Again, my assertion that it is almost impossible to divorce one aspect of conservatism with the other.

Now, as far as I am concerned, and I have already stated this, if we are talking about "rights" & the argument of not being able to visit a dying significant other in the hospital, or inheritance, etc. the ability to cover most of these bases are actually available within our current laws, but I am perfectly fine acknowledging this within the construct of a Civil Union type of legislation.

I still assert, if you think you can redefine traditional marriage to include same sex couples, and keep the Maginot Line stopped at that point, I disagree totally. The vast majority of encroachment upon all of our civil liberties has been the battle of attrition in our courts.

It is happening now as we speak, and the ACLU has a pretty sweet deal with respect to recuperating their money through the taxpayers who they purposely circumvent in the legislative process, by pursuing legislation through our courts.

I make my opinions, and my arguments by looking at what history has taught us. Hence, my quote from Cicero when you click on my football.

We pulled Europe from the brink less than a century ago. We protected them from the Red threat for the last 60 years plus. They have literally dug their own graves, in large part to embracing Socialism. Now don't take this as me laying all of the ills at the feet of the gay marriage argument, because I am not. But it dovetails directly with the arguments I have been making up until now.

Furthermore, it is wrong to paint all folks with the same brush, and this include people who are part of the alternative lifestyle community. The rioters in West Hollywood are not the spokespeople for them, just as Al or Jesse are not the spokesmen for the black community, despite how hard they try to be.

But I am convinced, once we get to a certain point with ditching certain aspects of social conservancy, that snowball will roll to a point where we can't stop it.

Thanks for engaging in a civil discussion about this. I think we can all agree, this is not an easy topic, and many of us have opinions on it, and the best way to air our beliefs is to be respectful about how we address it.

Take it easy, it seems my wife now wants to go look at antiques.

835 gman  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 10:49:30am

re: #834 formercorpsman

I always appreciate your thoughtful discussion. I have a friend in Europe right now who left the States many years ago because he is gay. His family members did not approve of him being gay and he felt that our society was less tolerant of gays. I often think what a damn shame it is that a brilliant, caring person such as my friend should feel that uncomfortable in a country that prides itself on individual rights. So, when a discussion turns to what is historically or traditionally appropriate, I think of how he might respond to such a discussion. I think people that are gay see marriage as a valid right (insofar as it is a right for others) in the same way that suffragists saw voting as a right or abolitionists saw freedom as the right of slaves. It is that concrete for them. Imagine telling a woman or a slave back in those times that their rights were going to have to wait until everything was thought through and that there was a possibility that giving them rights would mean opening up a chasm that might never be closed. I do not think that would satiate their desire for the same rights that others enjoy.

836 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 12:20:16pm
837 Charles Johnson  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 12:40:02pm

Links to 'birth certificate' nonsense promoted by Philip Berg will be deleted. I've completely had it with this crap. If you continue to post such links, your account will be blocked.


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 Frank says:

Here I stand hoping against hope that it's a chick with a low voice. -- At a concert in Beloit, Wisconsin 1968 or 69, when a guy in the audience yelled out, "Eat me Zappa".