Vlaams Belang Head at Nazi Book Fair - Update: VB Event at Neo-Nazi Pub

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Sat Nov 8, 2008 at 3:01 pm PST • Views: 1,505

Here’s a video showing Vlaams Belang leader Filip DeWinter, shopping for books at a VB/Voorpost convention. The books on these tables: neo-Nazi and fascist literature, and books about Voorpost—a European tribal nationalist militia with an openly fascist ideology.

Featuring salesmen wearing Nazi-style visored caps.

A translation, with context, from Øyvind Strømmen:

FDW: Where is the president (here)?

(Shakes hands with man, greets him)

At 0:50 in the video, FDW says “Vu de droite”, and a book is also shown. This is definitely Alain de Benoist’s book; compare with the cover found on Amazon.fr. This seems to be the same book FDW is holding when he speaks with the bookseller.

FDW: Have you already read this one, Andries?

Andries: But no, I am an illiterate human being, ey?

FDW: (Laughts). Well, well. Is this your magazine?

Andries: Yes. Yes.

“Vu de droite” was discussed in this article in NY Review of Books, 1980. An excerpt:

De Benoist claims that the central issues of the traditional right, among them genetics, race, and inequality, have been discredited by their association with Nazism, and he tries to give them new life by grafting them on to such subsciences as sociobiology and ethnology. De Benoist is particularly attracted to sociobiology, which has recently gained an enthusiastic hearing in France. But he has a tendency to present the hypotheses of sociobiology as proven conclusions and then to extend these “conclusions” to far-ranging fields. For example, he writes, “all politics today implies a biopolitics.” And he cites with enthusiasm the words of Professor Robert Mallet, the chancellor of the Universities of Paris, that some day “the genetic code will help inform the civil codes.”

And to reiterate, these are the people that some so-called “anti-jihad” writers and bloggers are welcoming as allies.

(Hat tip: Thanos.)

UPDATE at 11/8/08 4:53:14 pm:

Here’s yet another Vlaams Belang-Nazi connection; a Flemish nationalist pub known as De Leeuw van Vlaanderen has a sign saying “De Beest”—with a letter S that’s taken from the Nazi SS insignia. Here’s a translated version of a news article about it.

The man in the gray suit with his back to the camera is Filip DeWinter, leader of the Vlaams Belang.

A closeup image of the sign, to remove any doubt:

Imagine my surprise to discover that the Vlaams Belang holds events at this pub.

(Hat tip: Øyvind Strømmen.)

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686 comments

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1 gmsc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:02:25pm

Yet another VB/Neo-Nazi "coincidence"!

2 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:03:15pm

Classy.

3 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:03:38pm

This proves nothing!

Charles, you are obsessed! Obsessed I tell you!

Civilization in Europe will collapse without these fine leaders who are not actual Nazis (in the formal sense)!

/

4 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:04:26pm

"Rodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."

5 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:07:04pm

Just because this gentleman decided to by some books to hear differing points of view and perhaps broaden the discussion, that doesn't prove he is a Nazi.

/Robert "ignore thousands of other such examples"Spencer

6 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:07:21pm

Just a typical jaunt through your neighborhood Borders WaldenBooks Barnes and Nobles Nazi bookshop. Nothing to see here. Move along!

/

7 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:07:31pm

AIG is asking for another bailout? They spent the first 85 billion on spa treatments already?

8 transient  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:08:13pm

Not at all off-topic:

Architectural plans for Auschwitz found in Berlin

The floor plans, cross-sections and maps on yellowing paper, mostly on a scale of 1:100, were reportedly found during the evacuation of an abandoned Berlin apartment. They were drawn up between 1941 and 1943.

On January 20, 1942, Nazi officials met in the resort of Wannsee east of Berlin where they devised the Final Solution, and this has traditionally been taken by historians as the beginning of the Nazis' extermination campaign.

One of the drawings, predating the Wannsee Conference by eight months, sheds new light on the chronology of the German genocide machine.

"The plans are authentic certificates of a systematically planned genocide of European Jews," Bild quoted Kreikamp as saying.

The documents rebut the last of those who would deny the Holocaust, Bild said in its report.

9 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:08:28pm

I'm surprised he allowed himself to be filmed there. He must be feeling pretty comfortable with his public image these days.

10 transient  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:09:36pm

re: #4 logboy

"Rodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."

ROUS denial is a crime in some countries.

11 Pete-billy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:11:26pm

VB = Stupid Nazis !

12 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:11:56pm

BUt they support Israel, so they can't be nazis.

/[insert apologist of your choice here]

13 simonml  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:13:00pm

I thought liberals want America to be more like Europe.

14 alexknyc  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:13:17pm

I'm anti-jihadist myself. But allying with these people doesn't seem like the best way to argue the point.

15 CapeCoddah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:13:24pm

How do people like this sleep? Does Vlaams Belang translate to Sociopathic Party in English?

16 jorline  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:13:27pm

It's a Boy Scout convention I tell you...he's looking at the "101 New Knots" book.
//

17 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:13:53pm

Probably just doing research on the enemy, yeah, that's it...

18 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:15:25pm

More proof that we need to ensure that we are not linked in any way whatsoever to these fascists.

We cannot give them any degree of respectability.

19 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:16:03pm

i just don't get it.
didn't the world get enough of nazis the first time around.

20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:16:41pm
21 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:16:43pm

does pamela read this literature?

22 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:16:59pm

The apologists for people like DeWinter don't care one iota if he's a fascist. The only thing they can see is the common goal to neutralize the Islamification of Europe. They'd invite Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Lenin into their foxholes and ignore the fleas crawling all over themselves, in defense of their utopian 'coalition'.

Why they don't tell these types to go get their own damn foxholes is beyond me.

23 Wild Knight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:17:15pm

Good Grief! What's all this about Aldo Moro writing fascist literature? He was a leader of the Christian Democrats and is still venerated by many people in the Italian Geographic Area. Please enlighten me on this one as I am seriously confused.

24 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:18:09pm

I think it's important to note that the anti-communist t-shirts fit in perfectly at a neo-fascist/nazi event. Fascism is an anti-communist ideology, and one of the reasons it's called right-wing is because it was to the right of communism. Fascists hated and feared communists because it was international socialism, while fascism was/is national socialism.

25 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:18:15pm

So, how much evidence do people have to see before facing the fact that they are no longer dealing with "isolated" incidents?

Good grief.

26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:19:24pm

How are we, as a planet, still in this place? I'm not an "I'd Like to teach the world to sing", "One Tin Soldier", "99 Luftballoons" kind of guy.

But, seriously, how are we still in this place?

27 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:19:24pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

I'm surprised he allowed himself to be filmed there. He must be feeling pretty comfortable with his public image these days.

They figured we ripped the mask off far enough that they don't care anymore. The rise of the right in Europe is encouraging them as well.

Just for the record Voorpost means "Outpost" and they kind of knit the Dutch divisions of the neo-nazi movement together. They support the remaining white supremacist groups in S. Africa, as well as the Neos in the Netherlands. (They hate america there, are socialist, and want to erase Icons of "cultural imperialism" like McDonald's. ) This photo shows some typical posters on their walls at the Antwerp office iirc, you can see they are well networked. Pull it down, zoom in, some interesting things there.

28 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:19:38pm

re: #24 Sharmuta

They are and always have been competing for the same nasty constituency.

29 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:21:03pm

re: #22 rightymouse

The apologists for people like DeWinter don't care one iota if he's a fascist. The only thing they can see is the common goal to neutralize the Islamification of Europe. They'd invite Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Lenin into their foxholes and ignore the fleas crawling all over themselves, in defense of their utopian 'coalition'.

Why they don't tell these types to go get their own damn foxholes is beyond me.

its not just abt. a case of fleas.
after they neutralize the "islamification of europe",
they will go after the next group on their list.

30 Pete-billy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:21:13pm

Just i can't understand why other bloggers allying with ,or defending these Nazis.

31 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:21:57pm
Vlaams Belang Head at Nazi Book Fair

/what, he doesn't have a Kindle?

32 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:22:08pm

re: #29 nyc redneck

its not just abt. a case of fleas.
after they neutralize the "islamification of europe",
they will go after the next group on their list.


Of course! But they are completely unwilling to see that as the obvious consequence.

33 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:22:10pm

Robert Spencer claimed that Vlaams Belang's racist/neofascist leanings are 'hotly disputed' by people who are 'not deluded'.

What a (sick)joke.

34 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:22:13pm

re: #25 wolfie

So, how much evidence do people have to see before facing the fact that they are no longer dealing with "isolated" incidents?

Good grief.

I'm wonder how much more it will take before people realize that the people making "excuses" for this behavior do in fact know what it is they're dealing with and actually don't have a problem with it.

35 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:23:30pm

re: #21 nyc redneck

Pamela only thinks as far as her derangement syndrome allows - and fails to consider who she accepts as allies. She is quite willing to make a deal with the devil to try to stop evil. The thing is - encouraging evil to stop a perceived greater evil is still enabling evil.

36 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:23:40pm

Nazi book fair?

I suppose that's what they do after burning all the rest of them.

37 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:24:12pm

re: #23 Wild Knight

I didn't catch any mention of Moro on the video and I don't know where that came from. I wasn't aware that Moro wrote anything of book length, nor am I aware of any fascist connections to him.
As you point out, he is revered as a great defender of Italian democracy.
IIRC, he got some flak from the right for being willing to ally w/ the Communist Party on some issues. (That, of course, did not stop the Red Brigades from kidnapping and killing him.)

Maybe it's some other Moro? (?)

38 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:24:50pm

re: #23 Wild Knight

Good Grief! What's all this about Aldo Moro writing fascist literature? He was a leader of the Christian Democrats and is still venerated by many people in the Italian Geographic Area. Please enlighten me on this one as I am seriously confused.

Well, that's from 'Twenglish' ... I'll remove it until it's clarified.

39 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:25:00pm

re: #33 Jimmah

Robert Spencer claimed that Vlaams Belang's racist/neofascist leanings are 'hotly disputed' by people who are 'not deluded'.

What a (sick)joke.

He even posted another fjordman essay today on dhimmiwatch.

40 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:25:31pm
41 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:26:21pm

re: #27 Thanos

It is well worth remembering that the European "right" is usually just as anti-American as the left, if not more so.

42 nyc redneck  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:27:27pm

re: #32 rightymouse

Of course! But they are completely unwilling to see that as the obvious consequence.

isn't it strange? so many people have made this deadly mistake down thru history. after the shah of iran was pushed out, several groups, who thought they would get more freedoms and rights by aligning w/ the mad mullahs, were rudely awaken.

43 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:27:53pm

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How are we, as a planet, still in this place? I'm not an "I'd Like to teach the world to sing", "One Tin Soldier", "99 Luftballoons" kind of guy.

But, seriously, how are we still in this place?

Hey there Billy Jack, everybody is a "one tin soldier" kind of guy.
he was an ass kicker for peace (who just didn't realize the irony).

oddly the song could be seen as a justification for genocide:

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

kill 'em all and you'll have peace on earth, is that the message? Songwriter shoulda made it a bit more clear

44 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:29:35pm

re: #39 Sharmuta

As I said, embracing or enabling evil to try to stop a perceived greater evil is still enabling evil. Spencer is suffering from the same delusions that these are benign allies and can make a difference in the fight. They are neither benign nor will make a difference. We can fight and win without enabling or providing respectability to their odious nationalistic neo-nazi beliefs.

45 neocon hippie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:31:01pm

re: #24 Sharmuta

The Communists and Fascists in the 1920's-30's hated each other because they were rival totalitarian gangs fighting for the same turf. Think Crips and Bloods, or Corleone vs Tattaglia.

46 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:31:05pm
47 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:32:24pm

re: #43 spidly

Peace is the absence of enemies.

If you want peace with America then don't be an enemy of America.

48 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:32:24pm

re: #8 transient

Not at all off-topic:

Architectural plans for Auschwitz found in Berlin

Some will continue to deny. There has always been an overabundance of proof ranging from eyewitnesses, of whom many are still alive, to movie footage, to still photographs, documentary evidence, and the freaking buildings and compounds are still standing on some of the camps, such as Dachau. The compounds are sanitized, but stark proof of the horrors that occurred. I went through Dachau and even the sanitized version laid bare the fable of holocaust denial that is being spread. I saw GIs that went in joking and kidding around who sobered up after mere minutes.

49 Wild Knight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:33:09pm

re: #37 wolfie

I didn't catch any mention of Moro on the video and I don't know where that came from. I wasn't aware that Moro wrote anything of book length, nor am I aware of any fascist connections to him.
As you point out, he is revered as a great defender of Italian democracy.
IIRC, he got some flak from the right for being willing to ally w/ the Communist Party on some issues. (That, of course, did not stop the Red Brigades from kidnapping and killing him.)

Maybe it's some other Moro? (?)

Aldo Moro didn't "ally" with the communists. He sought to form a government of national unity during a time of serious crisis. This was one of the reasons why the Brigate Rosse kidnapped him - because they were afraid that a government of national unity would remove the motivation of the communists to take over the government of Italy. Aldo Moro was but one of the victims of that infamouse communist terror group, the Brigate Rosso, who carried out so many murders in the 70s that that period is known as l'anni dell'piombo (the years of lead). Aldo Moro's death shocked us deeply and I am exceedingly uncomfortable to see him being linked with fascist sentiment/literature.

50 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:33:24pm

re: #38 Charles

Well, that's from 'Twenglish' ... I'll remove it until it's clarified.

I'll watch the vid again, let's try to identify the book in hand.

51 Wild Knight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:33:43pm

re: #38 Charles

Well, that's from 'Twenglish' ... I'll remove it until it's clarified.

Thanks Charles.

52 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:33:49pm

re: #45 neocon hippie

The Communists and Fascists in the 1920's-30's hated each other because they were rival totalitarian gangs fighting for the same turf. Think Crips and Bloods, or Corleone vs Tattaglia.

I think of the Nazi-Soviet War of 1941-1945 as a drive by shooting carried out on an industrial scale.

53 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:33:58pm

re: #49 Wild Knight

Aldo Moro didn't "ally" with the communists. He sought to form a government of national unity during a time of serious crisis. This was one of the reasons why the Brigate Rosse kidnapped him - because they were afraid that a government of national unity would remove the motivation of the communists to take over the government of Italy. Aldo Moro was but one of the victims of that infamouse communist terror group, the Brigate Rosso, who carried out so many murders in the 70s that that period is known as l'anni dell'piombo (the years of lead). Aldo Moro's death shocked us deeply and I am exceedingly uncomfortable to see him being linked with fascist sentiment/literature.

He's not - I removed that part of Twenglish's translation.

54 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:34:01pm
55 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:34:12pm

Oh hell, I've been to gun shows where this kind of crap was present. I've also had to work with ignorant assholes who spouted this crap. Does this make me a racist? What does one have to do to avoid being tarred with that brush?

Holy S**t! I just remembered. I've read "Mein Kampf"...and the Qu'ran...and "The Communist Manifesto"...and Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book"! Does this make me a Nazi, Islamofascist, Commie Radical or just someone who likes to go to the source and ask the horse?

Trying to judge Europe using American standards is just silly.

56 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:34:48pm

There is another Moro, but I'll not bring it up until further reseach.

57 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:35:42pm

Watching it again, I think "where is the president" may be referring to the guy DeWinter shakes hands with.

58 Edgar  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:36:21pm

re: #44 Athos

As I said, embracing or enabling evil to try to stop a perceived greater evil is still enabling evil. Spencer is suffering from the same delusions that these are benign allies and can make a difference in the fight. They are neither benign nor will make a difference. We can fight and win without enabling or providing respectability to their odious nationalistic neo-nazi beliefs.

Spencer has only one goal, and as we have seen, and he sticks to it at the expense of reason in some cases.

While some people will never change their minds, I think Charles is doing the right thing by constantly putting this garbage on display for the undecided camp (which includes Spencer, IMO). But hopefully, pretty soon even the people who vigorously defended them will be forced to concede that these people are anything bu reliable allies.

59 itellu3times  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:37:10pm

re: #55 USBeast

Trying to judge Europe using American standards is just silly.

Yeah but here's the thing, judge Europeans by European standards and they're all friggin' angels.

60 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:37:24pm

What was he looking for, I wonder?

A copy of The Turner Diaries?

(Are there still folks selling that crap at gun shows?)

61 lostlakehiker  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:37:56pm

Apologies if this sounds like hairsplitting logic, but if this, rather than the mountain of other, and much better, evidence, proves that DeWinter has Nazi sympathies, then what does it prove, that I own some coins from the Nazi era, some coins from Communist Russia, and a copy of Military Writings of Chairman Mao?

That sort of thing, taken in isolation, proves nothing. It's only when you add in the fact that I've posted at the radical right wing site Little Green Footballs that you get definitive proof that I'm a Communist, an atheist, a Nazi, a Jew, and a Muslim. Or all of whichever of the above displeases whoever writes a story about me based on those facts.

By the standards of proof implicit in the argument that DeWinter attending that bookshow proves he's a nazi, anyhow, it proves anything you like or don't like.

A little caution here might be in order. There are better proofs of VB's unsavory ties.

62 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:38:10pm
63 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:38:45pm

re: #55 USBeast

Trying to judge Europe using American standards is just silly.

You find nazi bookfares silly?

64 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:39:30pm

The VB supporters are showing up.

65 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:40:20pm

re: #60 Dar ul Harb

What was he looking for, I wonder?

A copy of The Turner Diaries?

(Are there still folks selling that crap at gun shows?)

As far as I know they're not selling this at gun shows. Which is really too bad.

66 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:40:29pm

re: #49 Wild Knight

Thanks for the clarification. In any case, there's something goofy about the Aldo Moro reference there, because there's no way the Aldo Moro was a fascist of any kind.
My memory of the era isn't that bad!

67 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:40:55pm

re: #14 alexknyc

I'm anti-jihadist myself. But allying with these people doesn't seem like the best way to argue the point.

It's related to appeasement. Ally with neo-Nazis, and help them defeat our common enemy. Then they'll turn on us.

68 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:41:17pm

re: #54 Killian Bundy

The President

Is this possibly it?

/rest of the Amazon search

No, that doesn't appear to be the book he picks up although the camera gets a clear, long shot of the book cover. A screen grab should be easy to get.

/anyone have good eyesight and photo resolution software?

69 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:41:20pm
70 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:41:35pm

re: #55 USBeast

Apparently so.

But I didn't stop to peruse the table, either.

71 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:41:52pm

Charles, you have my undying gratitude for helping us slog through this morass over the months.

Thank you.

72 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:42:08pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

The VB supporters are showing up.

shall we make tea?

73 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:42:48pm

re: #69 Iron Fist

The soft bigotry of low expections? They're Europeans, of course they hate the Jews? What yardstick should we use to judge European morality?

Ours!

74 Edgar  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:43:14pm

re: #72 sattv4u2

shall we make tea?

How about protein smoothies?

75 Edgar  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:43:37pm

re: #73 The Other Les

Ours!

Mine!

76 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:43:38pm

re: #59 itellu3times

Yeah but here's the thing, judge Europeans by European standards and they're all friggin' angels.

Which European standards? The standards of the leftist, multi-culti elite or the standards of those like Geert Wilders who recognize the threat posed by unrestricted immigration and the refusal of immigrants to assimilate?

77 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:44:11pm

re: #55 USBeast

Oh hell, I've been to gun shows where this kind of crap was present. I've also had to work with ignorant assholes who spouted this crap. Does this make me a racist? What does one have to do to avoid being tarred with that brush?

Holy S**t! I just remembered. I've read "Mein Kampf"...and the Qu'ran...and "The Communist Manifesto"...and Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book"! Does this make me a Nazi, Islamofascist, Commie Radical or just someone who likes to go to the source and ask the horse?

Trying to judge Europe using American standards is just silly.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Get a grip, Beastie!

Simmah down, now. Simmah down.

78 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:45:02pm

re: #60 Dar ul Harb

What was he looking for, I wonder?

A copy of The Turner Diaries?

(Are there still folks selling that crap at gun shows?)

I'd like a copy. Just because.

79 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:45:23pm

re: #42 nyc redneck

isn't it strange? so many people have made this deadly mistake down thru history. after the shah of iran was pushed out, several groups, who thought they would get more freedoms and rights by aligning w/ the mad mullahs, were rudely awaken.

I'd like to think that they are simply being naive, but in the case of the apologists for people like DeWinter, they are being intellectually dishonest with themselves and others. These are people who should know better and do know better, but are unwilling to do so.

80 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:45:27pm

re: #54 Killian Bundy

No! Not unless it was actually a literary classics fair!
El Presidente is a great classic of LatAm literature and, in any case, its politics is the usual lefty stuff. (Worth reading anyway. Great style. Asturias was a HUGE influence on Gabriel Garcia Marquez, BTW.)

81 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:46:59pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

You find nazi bookfares silly?

No, only the people who buy into Naziism.

82 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:47:25pm

re: #55 USBeast

What does one have to do to avoid being tarred with that brush?

Start with openly condemning it. Also, how about stopping browsing at those tables...when I see that shit, you can tell from my face and actions that it is reprehensible shit as far as I am concerned as I walk away from it. I don't make polite conversation with the asshole selling that rot...

Furthermore, this is VB convention - they can control who has booths and sells goods inside their convention. They can stop this anytime they want - but they don't.

It's fundamentally no different than attending a leftist march in SF - browsing and viewing all of the Mao / Stalin / Trotsky / Alinsky materials offered by the communist groups seeing them organize those same marches - and saying that those marches have nothing to do with communists. That's not guilt by association - that's guilt by action.

83 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:47:25pm
84 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:48:05pm

re: #77 MandyManners

Oh, for fuck's sake. Get a grip, Beastie!

Simmah down, now. Simmah down.

Ain't me needs "simmah"in'.

85 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:48:06pm

re: #61 lostlakehiker

Apologies if this sounds like hairsplitting logic, but if this, rather than the mountain of other, and much better, evidence, proves that DeWinter has Nazi sympathies, then what does it prove, that I own some coins from the Nazi era, some coins from Communist Russia, and a copy of Military Writings of Chairman Mao?

That sort of thing, taken in isolation, proves nothing. It's only when you add in the fact that I've posted at the radical right wing site Little Green Footballs that you get definitive proof that I'm a Communist, an atheist, a Nazi, a Jew, and a Muslim. Or all of whichever of the above displeases whoever writes a story about me based on those facts.

By the standards of proof implicit in the argument that DeWinter attending that bookshow proves he's a nazi, anyhow, it proves anything you like or don't like.

A little caution here might be in order. There are better proofs of VB's unsavory ties.

Oh, please. And did you go around shaking every communist's hand, etc. stay on a first-name basis and laugh and joke with them too? What do you think he's doing there? Collecting nazi material for the EU's anti-hate division?

86 Elcid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:48:11pm
And to reiterate, these are the people that some so-called “anti-jihad” writers and bloggers are welcoming as allies.

And to reiterate, ALL of these type persons are cut from the same Boubou

87 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:48:32pm

re: #61 lostlakehiker


By the standards of proof implicit in the argument that DeWinter attending that bookshow proves he's a nazi, anyhow, it proves anything you like or don't like.

A little caution here might be in order. There are better proofs of VB's unsavory ties.

I think we're past the civil suit standard of a preponderance of the evidence and getting to the beyond a reasonable doubt stage. Hey, maybe the guy is as color blind as Stevie Wonder deep down inside...but he sure seems to be garnering support from some unsavory quarters.

88 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:49:49pm

re: #78 MandyManners

I'd like a copy. Just because.

Because... it inspired Timothy McVeigh?

89 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:50:09pm
90 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:51:04pm

re: #55 USBeast

But you were going to gun shows for the guns. You weren't going to a fascist book fair for the books.

I agree with you that we should not make broad, sweeping conclusions about people based on one or two sound-bites or incidents. I hate the propensity of moderns on all sides to do that. One swallow...or possible swallow... does not a summer make.

But there comes a time when you gotta admit you've got a whole flock.

91 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:51:13pm

re: #78 MandyManners

I'd like a copy. Just because.

I don't have a copy of that one, but I do have Karl Marx, Mein Kampf, Red Star Over China and a few more of that nature. Which does not make me either a communist or a nazi. What's that saying. . . . Know your enemy?

92 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:52:27pm

re: #81 USBeast

No, only the people who buy into Naziism.

I've seen the 'cost" of that ,, not pretty!

93 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:52:47pm

re: #61 lostlakehiker

... and this is yet another. Why do you complain? There's an entire list of problems, this is one among many.

94 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:53:13pm

re: #88 Dar ul Harb

Because... it inspired Timothy McVeigh?

No. Because it is a banned book.

95 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:53:19pm

re: #89 reno911

Because when you are the minority, you are allowed to defy "the man."
Obama was elected due to:
1. Racism
2. White Guilt
3. Ignorance
4. Media coup
5. Pop culture

96 itellu3times  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:53:20pm

re: #76 USBeast

Which European standards? The standards of the leftist, multi-culti elite or the standards of those like Geert Wilders who recognize the threat posed by unrestricted immigration and the refusal of immigrants to assimilate?

But that's just the problem, and to make a long story short, it's why we must use our own standards to judge.

97 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:53:52pm

re: #88 Dar ul Harb

Because... it inspired Timothy McVeigh?

*WHACK*

You should know better! Or, I'd hope that you'd know better.

98 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:53:54pm

Another connection: a Flemish nationalist pub named "De Leeuw van Vlaanderen" has a sign saying "De Beest" -- with a very recognizable letter "S".

[Link: translate.google.com...]

And what a surprise. Look who has held an event at this pub:

[Link: www.vbj.org...]

99 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:54:02pm

{rightymousie} Hi hon - new avatar just for fun. :D

100 yah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:55:18pm

89 reno911

Well that certain racial group has not vowed to exterminate the whites - yet.

101 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:55:59pm

re: #95 NYCHardhat

I noted that you didn't have "Republican suckitude" on the list, and it's really the biggest problem. The Dems almost could have put an Inuit dogcatcher up this election and won it.

102 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:56:18pm

re: #27 Thanos

I see that IRA asshole Bobby Sands is among their heroes...re: #39 Sharmuta

He even posted another fjordman essay today on dhimmiwatch.

Gah. He's had a long time to assess the Vlaams Belang issue - he must be familiar with the material evidences similar in import to the video above and everything else that has been posted on LGF on the subject - and yet, he chooses their side.

I've been reading more on Medaura's blog about how he tried to pull the wool over everyone's eyes over his support for an extremist Serbian group as well.

103 itellu3times  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:56:49pm

re: #95 NYCHardhat

Because when you are the minority, you are allowed to defy "the man."
Obama was elected due to:
1. Racism
2. White Guilt
3. Ignorance
4. Media coup
5. Pop culture

6. Clean.
7. Articulate
8. Not of the incumbent party.
9. The financial meltdown.
10. McCain's disengagement from actual issues.
11. Iraq going so well, it fell off as an issue.
12. The powerhouse Joe Biden.
13. Red star rising in the east.

104 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:56:52pm

re: #91 galloping granny

I don't have a copy of that one, but I do have Karl Marx, Mein Kampf, Red Star Over China and a few more of that nature. Which does not make me either a communist or a nazi. What's that saying. . . . Know your enemy?

I've some Dalton Trumbo. Jonnny Got his Gun raises my hackles.

105 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:57:04pm

re: #99 Miss Trixie

{rightymousie} Hi hon - new avatar just for fun. :D

{Trixie}!

That's probably one of the funniest avatars I've seen.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!

I didn't know you were into Shakespeare.

**snort**

106 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:57:10pm

re: #89 reno911

Why is racism only evil when engaged in by Whites? I just witnessed over 90% of a certain racial group, vote for a candidate based solely on race. Was that evil? If not, why not? If it was evil, why do we not denounce it as vociferously as we denounce VB? In WWII, Jews went to the gas chambers because they did not defend their culture. Is the West to submit to Islam in the name of political correctness?

So let me make sure I understand you. You're comparing African Americans voting for Barack Obama with Nazi Germany?

107 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:57:16pm

re: #101 Thanos

Great point. Republican ineptness is definitely probably # 3

108 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:57:29pm

Gotta' go sling some hash. bbiab

109 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:57:33pm
110 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:58:11pm

re: #89 reno911


War is nothing but enabling evil to fight a greater evil. Was the fact that we killed the enemy in WWII evil?

History is replete with examples of cultures that did not defend themselves.

Those cultures are gone now.

/Just playing devils advocate, not supporting VB.

Racism isn't evil only when engaged by Whites - the racism embraced by Farrakhan / Wright and others is just as evil. I condemn that as much as I condemn the David Dukes of the world. The entire concept is evil.

There is a difference between defending oneself and enabling another evil. Just because I choose to not enable the neo-nazis in order to fight the islamofascists does not mean that I and others will not fight the islamofascists. These groups will not mean success - and our association with them taints what we do and the moral authority of fighting the fight. BTW, fighting the fight by itself, like waging war, is not in itself evil. It is one thing for each of us to commit evil (ie fight in total war) to fight an evil (fascism) - as we have to each stand accountable for that evil - but it is another to enable an evil ideology or more precisely an ideology that embraces and accepts commiting evil as a matter of course or practice.

111 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:58:44pm

re: #98 Charles

Another connection: a Flemish nationalist pub named "De Leeuw van Vlaanderen" has a sign saying "De Beest" -- with a very recognizable letter "S".

[Link: translate.google.com...]

And what a surprise. Look who has held an event at this pub:

[Link: www.vbj.org...]


And if you flip that "S" on it's side and invert it you have the backdrop of the old Vlaams Blok logo.

112 David Simon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:58:53pm

re: #89 reno911

I pretty much agree with everything except this:

War is nothing but enabling evil to fight a greater evil.

Expound please.

113 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 3:59:03pm

re: #103 itellu3times

Mine was the abridged version. Good ones though!

114 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:00:17pm

re: #61 lostlakehiker

I'm really not sure what your point is- this is merely the latest in a mountain of evidence that continues to grow.

115 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:00:46pm

re: #68 Killian Bundy

No, that doesn't appear to be the book he picks up although the camera gets a clear, long shot of the book cover. A screen grab should be easy to get.

/anyone have good eyesight and photo resolution software?

The second time they show the book he's carrying is much better, the cover takes up the whole screen.

It appears to contain either a B&W photo or montage of several men. The title appears to run vertically down the spine in large gray lettering. There apears to be a five word subtitle in horzontal yellow lettering.

/best I can do without better eyesight and the ability to screenshot and enhance the image

116 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:01:06pm

re: #55 USBeast

Trying to judge Europe using American standards is just silly.

As a European let me tell you that this stuff is totally abnormal - and appalling - by European standards as well.

117 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:01:17pm

Are there any moderates/conservatives in Europe who stand on principle and choose to disavow these affiliations? Any?

118 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:01:22pm

re: #89 reno911

And by the way, what's up with these comments you've been dropping at my site:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

119 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:01:32pm

re: #110 Athos

It was a good post...but i dont quite get this part: It is one thing for each of us to commit evil (ie fight in total war) to fight an evil (fascism)
Are you saying that war is evil? Or that taking part in that war is evil?

120 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:02:16pm

re: #117 Intrepid

Thanos has posted before that moderate parties get hit on both sides by the fascists and the left.

121 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:02:18pm

re: #90 wolfie

But you were going to gun shows for the guns. You weren't going to a fascist book fair for the books.

I agree with you that we should not make broad, sweeping conclusions about people based on one or two sound-bites or incidents. I hate the propensity of moderns on all sides to do that. One swallow...or possible swallow... does not a summer make.

But there comes a time when you gotta admit you've got a whole flock.

I've never seen nazi books and stuff at a gun show. "knife fighting techniques of fulsom prison" is about the weirdest thing i've run across. Militaria, yes. Hell, I have Nazi militaria.

One there was a couple OCA (Oregon citizens alliance *spit*) guys outside trying to get petitions signed for some anti-gay initiative. Skinheads. They were saying the petition was for tax cuts and didn't actually want to show me the text of the initiative. Sure, a couple of 18 year old hairless romper stomper types are interested in tax cuts...finally read it and went off on them. >What does it say about the initiative that you have to lie to the most conservative population you are going to come across...< alerted the gun show folks and they were removed sometime a little later.

122 itellu3times  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:02:29pm

re: #113 NYCHardhat

Mine was the abridged version.

I know, just playing along. A full list would be lengthy and depressing, I leave it to the professionals who have the proper safety equipment.

123 debutaunt  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:03:38pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

The VB supporters are showing up.

Did some sort of Batman-type swastika-light go off?

124 boogberg  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:04:01pm

Uh oh.

125 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:04:15pm

re: #6 sattv4u2

Just a typical jaunt through your neighborhood Borders WaldenBooks Barnes and Nobles Nazi bookshop. Nothing to see here. Move along!

/

Seems to be about the same level of logic as the booksellers in Berkeley. Just the other end of the political spectrum (or maybe not, all things considered -- National Socialism is still socialism).

126 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:04:35pm

re: #55 USBeast

Yes but you couple it with Lepen, the other tribal nationalist groups he regularly associates with, mentoring by a holocaust denier, flashing the nazi salute in the Belgian parliament while being sworn in, authoring a 70 point plan for Flemish apartheid, publishing anti-semite rags in his youth, and myriad other things I could point to, then you definitely have a problem.

127 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:05:20pm

re: #118 Charles

Ouch.

128 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:05:20pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

Thanos has posted before that moderate parties get hit on both sides by the fascists and the left.

Well crap. Not much chance for them there, is there? Unless and until there is a major shift in thinking.

129 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:05:40pm

re: #118 Charles

I'm kinda detecting a theme there...

130 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:05:55pm

re: #118 Charles

And by the way, what's up with these comments you've been dropping at my site:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Time for some housekeeping Charles. Mandy has the *whackbat* ready to swing at a moment's notice.

131 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:06:28pm

re: #92 sattv4u2

I've seen the 'cost" of that ,, not pretty!

I agree. It isn't.

My point is that Europe is in extreme peril right now. There are and will be many forces, parties and factions trying to undo the multi-culti damage that has been and continues to be done. Some of those will be, to those of us lucky enough to view the fray from a "safe" distance will be deemed unsavory.

My own personal belief is that no one will be able to emerge from this battle with clean hands.

132 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:06:53pm

re: #126 Thanos

Yes but you couple it with Lepen, the other tribal nationalist groups he regularly associates with, mentoring by a holocaust denier, flashing the nazi salute in the Belgian parliament while being sworn in, authoring a 70 point plan for Flemish apartheid, publishing anti-semite rags in his youth, and myriad other things I could point to, then you definitely have a problem.

That interview was a real nail in the coffin.

133 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:07:16pm

re: #129 Thanos

I'm kinda detecting a theme there...

I hear the whisper of Stinky's stick a-swingin'.

134 ryannon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:07:37pm

At 1":17 on the video deWinter walks over to another stand and begins a conversation in French with the guy behind the table. deWinter asks him if he's 'Breton' (from Brittany in France) and the young man answers in the affirmative. He goes on to say that DeWinter is both a model and and inspiration.

Interesting.

Given the aims of the his movement,

[Link: www.google.com...]

I would imagine that he's referring to the separatist policies of Vlamms Belang than anything else, but then again, it's hard to say from here. Unfortunately, once you get on the bus with these people, you're no longer in control of the itinerary, so to speak.

What's for sure is that the Bretons have been angry with the French government since the Revolution. Their anger sometimes takes rather strange forms, since they've also bombed a couple of McDonalds in their quest for territorial purity.

135 jemima  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:08:26pm

Dalton Trumbo. Those poor put-upon screenwriters who were blacklisted. They were commies, they were humanitarians! Now I'm starting to wonder how much of that history was written by sympathizers and how much of it was for real.

(Boy, did I get into an argument with a 92 year old woman who hung around with that crowd. Dash Hammett, Lillian...I was going to say Vernon. You know who I mean.)

136 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:08:46pm

re: #117 Intrepid

There are quite a few. In FLemish Belgium there are several moderate but still nationalist / separatist parties as well, VB keeps them beat down however. They will go off on a moderate competitor for the nationalists in Flanders quicker than they will their Wallonian opposition.

137 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:09:00pm

re: #121 spidly

I just asked Mr. Wolf if he had ever seen Nazi or semi-Nazi type stuff at a gun show. He said NO WAY he had ever seen anything like that himself.

(He's only been to a few of them, though.)

138 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:09:08pm

re: #118 Charles

Those comments fit right in with this cartoon at the Vlaams site:
5.11.2008 "Black Wednesday."
[Link: www.vlaamsbelang.org...]

139 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:09:32pm

Reno911 will be much happier posting at Jihad Watch.

140 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:10:30pm

re: #135 jemima

Dalton Trumbo. Those poor put-upon screenwriters who were blacklisted. They were commies, they were humanitarians! Now I'm starting to wonder how much of that history was written by sympathizers and how much of it was for real.

(Boy, did I get into an argument with a 92 year old woman who hung around with that crowd. Dash Hammett, Lillian...I was going to say Vernon. You know who I mean.)

Tell me more about those poor put-upon screenwriters. I was saying just this morning that maybe, just maybe, looking at the shenanigans in this election cycle, there was more to that story than we have been led to believe and an awful lot of that had some basis in fact.

141 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:10:49pm

re: #118 Charles

And by the way, what's up with these comments you've been dropping at my site:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

That's stuff some of my not-so-enlightened deep-rural relatives would say. It's not funny when they come to visit and spew that crap, and reading those posts isn't funny either.

Does not enhance the dignity of this site either, Charles.

142 rightymouse  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:10:58pm

re: #134 ryannon

I would imagine that he's referring to the separatist policies of Vlamms Belang than anything else, but then again, it's hard to say from here. Unfortunately, once you get on the bus with these people, you're no longer in control of the itinerary, so to speak.

And the apologists are too arrogant to recognize that sticky detail.

143 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:11:34pm

re: #138 jaunte

WTF is up with the one for 20.10.2008?!

144 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:11:58pm
145 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:12:01pm

re: #116 Jimmah

As a European let me tell you that this stuff is totally abnormal - and appalling - by European standards as well.

Glad to hear it.

146 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:12:43pm

re: #119 Wishing

It was a good post...but i dont quite get this part: It is one thing for each of us to commit evil (ie fight in total war) to fight an evil (fascism)
Are you saying that war is evil? Or that taking part in that war is evil?

Let me try again - Good has to fight evil. Good may have to resort to war and violence to fight and defeat evil. War is a tool to be used to defeat evil. Therefore, war is sometimes necessary and war itself may not be evil depending on the reasons.

We need to ensure that we fight for the right reasons - and I believe in this country we do take this seriously (ie Iraq was a fight for the right reason).

For those who participate in a war - they may not be inherently evil for that participation depending on the reasons - but may commit evil when fighting that war. Then they are accountable as individuals for their evil that they may commit when they fight.

However, if good is to remain good - then we cannot support or enlist or embrace a lessor evil (euro-nazis) in the name of fighting a greater evil (islamofascism). Doing so taints all that we stand for.

147 livefreeor die  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:13:47pm

re: #72 sattv4u2

shall we make tea?


Or boil some oil.

148 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:14:01pm

re: #134 ryannon

There are several nationalist groups from France that VB has ties to, including Alsace D'Abord, FN, and others.

149 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:14:13pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Reno911 will be much happier posting at Jihad Watch.

And they'll be happy to have him.

150 SpartanWoman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:14:17pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

WTF is up with the one for 20.10.2008?!

I like to pretend that people like this don't exist.

151 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:14:25pm

Great, now it's going to bother me what that book was.

/he's certainly showing it off for the camera

152 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:15:12pm

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Reno911 will be much happier posting at Jihad Watch.

Does Stormfront have a blog? Might be more in line, since the theme seems to be against US AAs.

153 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:15:27pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

Calling the FDF (Francophone party) the nazis:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

154 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:15:27pm

re: #24 Sharmuta

I think it's important to note that the anti-communist t-shirts fit in perfectly at a neo-fascist/nazi event. Fascism is an anti-communist ideology, and one of the reasons it's called right-wing is because it was to the right of communism. Fascists hated and feared communists because it was international socialism, while fascism was/is national socialism.

Jonah Goldberg (in Liberal Fascism) suggests that Communism and National Socialism clashed because they were competing with each other on the same ideological turf.

It was the Communists, specifically Stalin, who classified Fascism and National Socialism as right-wing; Benito Mussolini was very active in the Italian Socialist Party before he branched off with his Fascist Party.

(hey, the book's available for the Kindle!)

155 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:15:53pm

re: #144 Iron Fist

I've seen Nazi knives, banners, and other shit of historical value for sale at gun shows. There's almost always someone selling it. It is of historical value, but I can't see me putting up my hard-earned money for any of it.

About the only thing I be interested would a Mauser rifle as a collector's item. I know collectors of that type of memorabilia for it's collectibility and historical value. Others want it for other reasons.

156 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:16:19pm

re: #138 jaunte

Those comments fit right in with this cartoon at the Vlaams site:
5.11.2008 "Black Wednesday."
[Link: www.vlaamsbelang.org...]

Yes the infamous Fre of the White power armband rat fame, here's his portrayal of Serena Williams

157 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:16:28pm

re: #153 jaunte

That's a really disturbing cartoon. I can't seem to link to it directly.

158 jemima  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:16:33pm

re: #140 galloping granny

Tell me more about those poor put-upon screenwriters. I was saying just this morning that maybe, just maybe, looking at the shenanigans in this election cycle, there was more to that story than we have been led to believe and an awful lot of that had some basis in fact.

That was pretty much the fight I had with her. My position is that every significant person who worked to create the WGA (Writer's Guild of America) was either a card carrying member of the party or a leftist. For the longest time I thought that was just because they were deluded and idealistic but then after a couple WGA strikes under my belt, I started to see it differently. Having known actors, I don't trust them because they act. Being a writer, I know what a bunch of storytellers (taqiyya artists) they can be. They would have gone to the McCarthy hearings and had their little routines all planned out well in advance. They've been working their magic on us for decades.

159 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:16:49pm

One of the problems associated with any group that is focused on "anti-" something is the fringe that are attracted to it. Even though this group ~may~ have started out as something benign doesn't alter the fact they have evolved through their members actions into something more sinister.

Another example can be found in the John Birch Society which was founded back in 58 by a guy named Robert Welch, an ex-soldier who saw his commander knowingly shot by communist Chinese at the end of the war. His purpose was to have a group that exposed communists in the government, arts, etc... It evolved into a group also exposing "big government". One example was the putting of fluoride in water by the government, in order to improve the teeth of citizens. Their problem with it was the fact government was putting something in our water with no ones knowledge or input, whether they wanted it or not. Of course he was marginalized by the media for publicizing this and the group was made to look like bafoons. I digress. As is common with groups like this; some people take these actions a step further-if they despise one group, they will hate others. Welch did not control things and racists got involved and the group degenerated.

This forum is another example. The group is anti-jihad. IF Charles didn't maintain such good control over posters and content, it could easily get out of control. We have seen examples of this and fortunately they get deleted and banned. But, this is how it happens.

Sorry for the long post.

160 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:17:10pm

re: #152 Intrepid

Yes they do, with forums for Flemish Nationalists. I don't recommend visiting however.

161 SpartanWoman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:17:14pm

re: #156 Thanos

There are no words to describe the mental status of people like this

162 engineboss  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:17:18pm

Some say that the rise of naziism was made possible by the philosophers of the time (Kant, Hegel, etc). I wonder who would be considered an American philosopher ho is driving American society today. Maybe William Ayers? Ward Churchill? What does this say about the state of American thought? Hmmm.

163 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:17:41pm

re: #156 Thanos

Yes the infamous Fre of the White power armband rat fame, here's his portrayal of Serena Williams

Gah. That's sickening. What an ignorant a**hat.

164 Wishing  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:18:23pm

re: #137 wolfie

I just asked Mr. Wolf if he had ever seen Nazi or semi-Nazi type stuff at a gun show. He said NO WAY he had ever seen anything like that himself.

(He's only been to a few of them, though.)

I have seen that nazi crap at local gun shows..and people wearing swastika tshirts etc. Makes me wanna throttle em.

165 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:18:38pm

WTF is going on in Europe? You've got nazis and moonbats and precious little inbetween. Here's a vid from a friend of mine in France about one of her friends. (Anybody from the FEC ever going to investigate foreign contributors to Obama's campaign.) *sigh*

166 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:19:09pm

re: #158 jemima

That was pretty much the fight I had with her. My position is that every significant person who worked to create the WGA (Writer's Guild of America) was either a card carrying member of the party or a leftist. For the longest time I thought that was just because they were deluded and idealistic but then after a couple WGA strikes under my belt, I started to see it differently. Having known actors, I don't trust them because they act. Being a writer, I know what a bunch of storytellers (taqiyya artists) they can be. They would have gone to the McCarthy hearings and had their little routines all planned out well in advance. They've been working their magic on us for decades.

So you're saying McCarthy had it right after all. And that we have let all the smoke and mirrors about witch hunts distract us from his rightness. Just like all these years we've listened to sob stories about the innocence of the Rosenbergs - until the evidence was released recently.

167 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:19:17pm

re: #159 Outrider

zzz*snork*zzz

Just kidding, good post!

168 godfrey  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:19:33pm

What a pity that advocacy for Flemish independence is so vitiated by the likes of VB. Their touch is like death. Flanders, rise up and kick them to the curb!

169 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:20:21pm

re: #159 Outrider

If the group you're referring to that "may" have started out as "something benign" is vlaams belang, then you'd be wrong. They started as vlaams blok and were even more openly nazi. They had to reform the party to appear more moderate, but there is plenty of proof that it's a facade.

Here's a thread Charles had about it.

170 right_on_target  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:20:47pm

re: #144 Iron Fist

I've seen Nazi knives, banners, and other shit of historical value for sale at gun shows. There's almost always someone selling it. It is of historical value, but I can't see me putting up my hard-earned money for any of it.


___
And a lot of it are knock-offs, fake; so there has to be people who WANT it badly enough.

171 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:20:56pm
172 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:20:57pm

re: #144 Iron Fist

Oh. Well, I've seen stuff like that, along with USSR things, at stores or antique malls.
I'm not saying a collector is necessarily a sympathizer, but I admit I'd worry about anyone who picked themes like that for a hobby. Kinda like collecting Ted Bundy paraphernalia. Weirod.

173 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:21:37pm

re: #154 Steffan

That's pretty insightful of him, WWII by Europeans is seen as the war between the red and the black... international communism and national socialism.

The neo nazi rock groups that make up the Blood and Honor concerts got their start as "rock against communism" in the '80s -- most famously "Skrewdriver". Don't recommnend googling that...

174 ryannon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:21:38pm

re: #148 Thanos

There are several nationalist groups from France that VB has ties to, including Alsace D'Abord, FN, and others.

I was well aware of the FN, which ideologically constitutes a really good fit with VB, but I tend to forget about the much smaller regional groups like the Bretons and the Alsacians - each with their own principal agenda (usuallly independence from France) and any number of linguistic and cultural sprinklies on top of it all.

175 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:21:51pm

re: #146 Athos

However, if good is to remain good - then we cannot support or enlist or embrace a lessor evil (euro-nazis) in the name of fighting a greater evil (islamofascism). Doing so taints all that we stand for.


Yes, well, historically that's just bunk, e.g., the US had to ally with the USSR to defeat the nazis. Life is never so easy or cut and dry.

176 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:22:49pm

re: #175 Irene NYC

Yes, well, historically that's just bunk, e.g., the US had to ally with the USSR to defeat the nazis. Life is never so easy or cut and dry.

Yup. Very rarely do you get a clear choice between good and evil. You get a choice between shades of gray.

177 jemima  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:23:16pm

re: #166 galloping granny

So you're saying McCarthy had it right after all. And that we have let all the smoke and mirrors about witch hunts distract us from his rightness. Just like all these years we've listened to sob stories about the innocence of the Rosenbergs - until the evidence was released recently.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting.

How many movies have we had that portrayed the sad but brave situations of these writers (yikes, how self-centered they are!). You can even catch hat tips to luminaries like Paul Jarrico when his name is used for modern characters. Have we had ONE positive portrayal of commie hunters?

178 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:23:18pm

re: #175 Irene NYC

Yes, well, historically that's just bunk, e.g., the US had to ally with the USSR to defeat the nazis. Life is never so easy or cut and dry.

If hitler had not broken his pact with Russia, it's unlikely that the ussr would have allied with us in WWII. I don't think we needed them- they needed us.

179 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:24:13pm

re: #137 wolfie

I just asked Mr. Wolf if he had ever seen Nazi or semi-Nazi type stuff at a gun show. He said NO WAY he had ever seen anything like that himself.

(He's only been to a few of them, though.)

I've been to quite a few, but rarely go anymore since the "gun show loophole" law - which did nothing to stop private sales. What it did do was drive out the curio and relic sellers out and me for that reason, all I ever went for were the old old guns. I like my local gun store.

There used to be plenty of militaria, of course US and Nazi were most represented. Not too big of a market for WWII French battle ribbons.

most of the books are manuals and buyers guides. there's also history of this and that battle and such. If you want to call something like "campaigns or Rommel: Desert Fox" nazi propaganda then that'd be about it. Never ever seen "Mein Kampf," "protocols of the elders" or "Jews suck balls" or any such thing. I thing you'd get your ass kicked putting crap like that out.

180 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:24:18pm

re: #155 jcm

About the only thing I be interested would a Mauser rifle as a collector's item. I know collectors of that type of memorabilia for it's collectibility and historical value. Others want it for other reasons.

I wouldn't mind having an Israeli Mauser rifle in 7.62x51.

181 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:24:42pm

re: #154 Steffan

Jonah Goldberg (in Liberal Fascism) suggests that Communism and National Socialism clashed because they were competing with each other on the same ideological turf.


Well, for sure the nazis were pissed at the commies for being on their actual turf, too!
;)

182 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:25:17pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

and before that they were Were Di, and Volksunie

183 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:25:25pm

re: #175 Irene NYC

It would have been if they let Patton drive his tanks into Soviet land and finish them off. He knew they were psychotic.

184 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:25:27pm

OT
ROOOLLL TIIIDDDEEE

185 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:25:49pm

re: #155 jcm

About the only thing I be interested would a Mauser rifle as a collector's item. I know collectors of that type of memorabilia for it's collectibility and historical value. Others want it for other reasons.

I've got some things my grandfather brought home. He was proud of it because it represented victory over evil, and I'm proud of it because it reminds me of him.

186 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:26:18pm

re: #178 Sharmuta

If hitler had not broken his pact with Russia, it's unlikely that the ussr would have allied with us in WWII. I don't think we needed them- they needed us.

Toots - what you said. Yikes.

187 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:27:04pm

re: #162 engineboss

Some say that the rise of naziism was made possible by the philosophers of the time (Kant, Hegel, etc). I wonder who would be considered an American philosopher ho is driving American society today. Maybe William Ayers? Ward Churchill? What does this say about the state of American thought? Hmmm.

Anybody who hates America isn't really thinking.

188 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:27:04pm

re: #184 Mike in Georgia

OT
ROOOLLL TIIIDDDEEE

Say what? ?

189 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:27:05pm

re: #177 jemima

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting.

How many movies have we had that portrayed the sad but brave situations of these writers (yikes, how self-centered they are!). You can even catch hat tips to luminaries like Paul Jarrico when his name is used for modern characters. Have we had ONE positive portrayal of commie hunters?

Not that I can recall. And you sure don't find it in the kid's history books. I've been pretty appalled at what I've seen lately.

190 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:27:40pm

re: #174 ryannon

I was well aware of the FN, which ideologically constitutes a really good fit with VB, but I tend to forget about the much smaller regional groups like the Bretons and the Alsacians - each with their own principal agenda (usuallly independence from France) and any number of linguistic and cultural sprinklies on top of it all.

Exactly. There's even a Southern Tyrol group in Italy, these idiots want Europe in a hundred xenophobic tribal splinters, in other words they want to ape the political landscape that the Taliban shelters under in the Waziristans.

191 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:27:51pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

If the group you're referring to that "may" have started out as "something benign" is vlaams belang, then you'd be wrong. They started as vlaams blok and were even more openly nazi. They had to reform the party to appear more moderate, but there is plenty of proof that it's a facade.

Here's a thread Charles had about it.

noted. I've not looked into their history. I've taken them for what they are now and was merely giving them benefit of a doubt for their origins.

192 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:27:53pm

Is there no middle ground in Europe? Meaning, are the only choices for muslims who immigrate to Europe, a) completely cloister themselves into their own communities, in which the laws and customs of their country of origin are maintained and strictly enforced, or b) face deportation en masse back to their country of origin?

I guess Europe hasn't caught on to the concept of the "melting pot". Or of individualism.

193 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:28:11pm

re: #185 Cognito

I've got some things my grandfather brought home. He was proud of it because it represented victory over evil, and I'm proud of it because it reminds me of him.

I was thinking earlier that there are an awful lot of WWII vets - and men who served later on in Germany - that brought that stuff home as war trophies.

194 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:28:11pm

re: #188 Miss Trixie

Alabama just beat LSU

195 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:28:13pm
196 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:29:03pm

re: #178 Sharmuta

If hitler had not broken his pact with Russia, it's unlikely that the ussr would have allied with us in WWII. I don't think we needed them- they needed us.

FDR would never have gotten involved in WWII if he didn't know that he USSR would provide most of the fodder for nazi cannons.

We provided the hardware in large quantities, they provided the dead bodies in large numbers.

197 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:29:11pm

re: #177 jemima

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting.

How many movies have we had that portrayed the sad but brave situations of these writers (yikes, how self-centered they are!). You can even catch hat tips to luminaries like Paul Jarrico when his name is used for modern characters. Have we had ONE positive portrayal of commie hunters?

I think John Wayne did something in the fifties.

198 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:29:28pm

re: #48 Outrider

Some will continue to deny. There has always been an overabundance of proof ranging from eyewitnesses, of whom many are still alive, to movie footage, to still photographs, documentary evidence, and the freaking buildings and compounds are still standing on some of the camps, such as Dachau. The compounds are sanitized, but stark proof of the horrors that occurred. I went through Dachau and even the sanitized version laid bare the fable of holocaust denial that is being spread. I saw GIs that went in joking and kidding around who sobered up after mere minutes.

It's not as if the Wannsee Conference was swept under the rug...

At the beginning of the discussion Chief of the Security Police and of the SD, SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich, reported that the Reich Marshal had appointed him delegate for the preparations for the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe and pointed out that this discussion had been called for the purpose of clarifying fundamental questions. The wish of the Reich Marshal to have a draft sent to him concerning organizational, factual and material interests in relation to the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe makes necessary an initial common action of all central offices immediately concerned with these questions in order to bring their general activities into line.

The Reichsführer-SS and the Chief of the German Police (Chief of the Security Police and the SD) was entrusted with the official central handling of the final solution of the Jewish question without regard to geographic borders.

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD then gave a short report of the struggle which has been carried on thus far against this enemy, the essential points being the following:

a) the expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people,
b) the expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people.

In carrying out these efforts, an increased and planned acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory was started, as the only possible present solution.

By order of the Reich Marshal, a Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration was set up in January 1939 and the Chief of the Security Police and SD was entrusted with the management. Its most important tasks were

a) to make all necessary arrangements for the preparation for an increased emigration of the Jews,
b) to direct the flow of emigration,
c) to speed the procedure of emigration in each individual case.

The aim of all this was to cleanse German living space of Jews in a legal manner.

All the offices realized the drawbacks of such enforced accelerated emigration. For the time being they had, however, tolerated it on account of the lack of other possible solutions of the problem.

"The expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people" would presumably mean this plane of existence.

I have a suggestion: Let's print a bunch of T-shirts showing Che and Heydrich together. After all, the only real difference between them was the language they spoke...

199 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:29:47pm

There are some really disturbing cartoons on the VB site. I don't even need to be able to read it to know it's can't be good.

[Link: www.vlaamsbelang.org...]

200 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:30:01pm

re: #144 Iron Fist

I've seen Nazi knives, banners, and other shit of historical value for sale at gun shows. There's almost always someone selling it. It is of historical value, but I can't see me putting up my hard-earned money for any of it.

I bought a bracelet with little enamel flags in silver of continental europe all around including the nazi flag. kind of a "nations we have pwned" deal. 10 bucks. seems like it should be worth more and actually very well made and pretty. I don't know what the hell I did with it.

201 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:30:16pm

re: #185 Cognito

I've got some things my grandfather brought home. He was proud of it because it represented victory over evil, and I'm proud of it because it reminds me of him.

Lot's of vets brought home trophies, some very cool stuff with lots of memories attached to it.

202 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:30:19pm

Filip deWinter: “Didn't the sign at the door say this is a stamp collector's convention? Where are the Fijian commemoratives?"

203 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:30:30pm

re: #192 Intrepid

Is there no middle ground in Europe? Meaning, are the only choices for muslims who immigrate to Europe, a) completely cloister themselves into their own communities, in which the laws and customs of their country of origin are maintained and strictly enforced, or b) face deportation en masse back to their country of origin?

I guess Europe hasn't caught on to the concept of the "melting pot". Or of individualism.

Europe never had any concept of melting pot - or individualism. Individualism is a strictly American concept. It is only here where the power of government, the authority to rule, is given by the individuals. In Europe it is the government, under the authority of the church, that holds the power and extends whatever rights it may choose to the individual.

204 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:31:00pm

re: #183 NYCHardhat

It would have been if they let Patton drive his tanks into Soviet land and finish them off. He knew they were psychotic.


It would have been what? We didn't have the troops to finish off the Soviets. We could barely keep the soviets out of west Germany. Get real.

205 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:31:24pm

re: #191 Outrider

noted. I've not looked into their history. I've taken them for what they are now and was merely giving them benefit of a doubt for their origins.

When it comes to european politics, you should be skeptical first, research, then come to a conclusion. Do not take them at face value.

206 jaunte  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:32:06pm

re: #199 Sharmuta

UK Babelfish does a Dutch to English translation of phrases and whole websites:
[Link: uk.babelfish.yahoo.com...]

207 Miss Trixie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:32:16pm

re: #194 Mike in Georgia

Alabama just beat LSU

Ah. Got it.

BC Lions just stomped the stuffing out of the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

Let's go Western Final! Stamps in the Grey Cup!

Yee-hawww!

208 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:03pm

re: #195 Iron Fist

Yeah, I have a friend that has a huge Nazi swastika banner that he bought off a crack addict. He keeps it in a little box thrown in the back of his closet because that's where it belongs as the symbol of a defeated Enemy.

Where it becomes really difficult is when things the Nazis did has some redeeming value. We had a couple of anatomy texts that were printed in Germany in the fifties. If you looked closely, on some of the illustrations there were indicators of Nazi Germany. Things like SS runes and little swastikas in where the artist had signed the illustration.

Creepy shit, 'cause yopu know that the reason the images were so compelling was because these SOBs killed people and disected them to make their illustrations.

There has been an ongoing debate with the medical community on opening up and using the data gathered by the Nazis. One side contends that the data is valuable because it is unique, and may be used to save lives. The other side contends the data is irreparably corrupted because of the heinous methods used to obtain the data.

I tend to side with the second viewpoint.

209 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:14pm

re: #201 jcm

Lot's of vets brought home trophies, some very cool stuff with lots of memories attached to it.

Sort of a weird deal, I guess. The things my grandfather brought home are priceless to me; I'd never sell them. But Nazi-related material out on the open market is valueless to me; I'd never buy it.

All about provenance, I guess.

210 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:19pm

re: #204 Irene NYC

It would have been cut and dry. No cold war without the Soviets. As far as troop levels, you may be right, you may be wrong.

211 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:19pm
212 NoSpam  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:37pm

To be fair, I don't think those are Nazi hats. They look more like student hats (I forget the proper name for them) which are a tradition over in certain parts of Europe.

Video's still creepy, though.

213 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:33:40pm

re: #204 Irene NYC

It would have been what? We didn't have the troops to finish off the Soviets. We could barely keep the soviets out of west Germany. Get real.

Not exactly true. The Soviets were allowed to take Berlin by agreement at the Yalta Conference. We certainly did have the manpower to do that ourselves.

214 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:34:02pm

re: #201 jcm

Lot's of vets brought home trophies, some very cool stuff with lots of memories attached to it.

Yeah, we had one of those as a prop for the senior class play at Camp LeJeune High -- a ChiCom submachine gun with pie-plate magazine, unloaded but operable. Base Security found out.

215 Shay4l  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:35:20pm

Zreobama to the left of me, DeWinter to the right! Here I am, stuck in the middle with you

216 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:35:35pm

re: #199 Sharmuta

This cartoon is a perfect example of how they tear down other nationalist groups, this one attacks LDD, or liszt Dedecker.

217 NoSpam  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:35:36pm

re: #208 jcm

Ditto. Fruit of the poison tree.

Didn't stop us from using some of the Japanese 'research' postwar, though...

218 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:35:59pm

re: #180 The Other Les

I wouldn't mind having an Israeli Mauser rifle in 7.62x51.

there was a Remington rolling block 1880's date that had Danish Markings. Guy only wanted 600 for it I only had 450. Wrote to the military museum and asked about it and they gave me the history of when and who used the rifle...still have that paperwork. thing was pristine. it was commissioned for the royal guard who would have never fired the thing.

gunshow loophole foolishness...never saw the guy there again. couldn't get ahold of him.

219 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:36:19pm

re: #213 galloping granny

Not exactly true. The Soviets were allowed to take Berlin by agreement at the Yalta Conference. We certainly did have the manpower to do that ourselves.

Part of allowing the Soviets to take Berlin was a move by Eisenhower to save US lives. He knew the fight for Berlin would be brutal, and the Soviets had the will to extract the revenge they wanted.

220 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:36:32pm

re: #216 Thanos

This cartoon is a perfect example of how they tear down other nationalist groups, this one attacks LDD, or liszt Dedecker.

How did you do that? I can't seem to link the nazi cartoon.

221 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:36:43pm

re: #208 jcm

There has been an ongoing debate with the medical community on opening up and using the data gathered by the Nazis. One side contends that the data is valuable because it is unique, and may be used to save lives. The other side contends the data is irreparably corrupted because of the heinous methods used to obtain the data.

I tend to side with the second viewpoint.

Much of that data has been in use for decades anyway you know. As one example, the US Food Stamp program is based on the diet used by the Nazis at Dachau. You can read that in Hunger in New England, published by Harvard School of Public Health in the 70s - if you can lay hands on a copy. At the time food stamps were being considered by the Congress, the then Surgeon General testified that no adult should live on that diet except in an emergency and then not for more than three months. No child should ever be fed that diet. It is still in use today to determine how many food stamps a family is entitled to.

222 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:37:07pm

re: #210 NYCHardhat

It would have been cut and dry. No cold war without the Soviets. As far as troop levels, you may be right, you may be wrong.


Are you really suggesting that the USA could've taken on the Soviets? Man, oh man. That is seriously delusional.

223 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:37:17pm

re: #217 NoSpam

Ditto. Fruit of the poison tree.

Didn't stop us from using some of the Japanese 'research' postwar, though...

Didn't stop us from putting a few German rocket scientist to good use.

224 David Simon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:38:28pm

re: #178 Sharmuta

If hitler had not broken his pact with Russia, it's unlikely that the ussr would have allied with us in WWII. I don't think we needed them- they needed us.

If you read Mein Kampf, it's pretty clear that Hitler intended to invade Russia all along. How else would he defeat "Judeo-Bolshevism"?

As for Russia needing us, I think they did a thorough job of kicking Hitler's ass without us (mainly due to Hitler's miscalculations and incompetent micromanagement).

225 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:38:55pm

re: #211 Iron Fist

Yeah, my grandfather brought a lot of stuff back with him from the Occupation of Japan. I know that some Gulf War I troops brought back war trophies. Said trophies were a little bit illegal, but when you can get an unfired, dropped once AK-47 it is kinda hard to turn it down.

I think full auto fire in a personal weapon is highly overrated.

226 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:38:56pm

re: #222 Irene NYC

Are you really suggesting that the USA could've taken on the Soviets? Man, oh man. That is seriously delusional.

At the end of WWII - sure. Had we not fed and equipped the Soviets they would have collapsed long since and become part of Germany. They had cannon fodder but damned all for canons you know. Little better equipped and not as well fed as WWI.

227 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:39:16pm
228 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:39:51pm

re: #214 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah, we had one of those as a prop for the senior class play at Camp LeJeune High -- a ChiCom submachine gun with pie-plate magazine, unloaded but operable. Base Security found out.

Ouch.

229 wolfie  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:39:55pm

re: #179 spidly

LOL!
No French battle ribbons? No Bolivian navy medals?

Yeah, I agree that the stuff you're talking about is NOT propaganda, nor does it imply any sympathy with our enemies.

230 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:39:57pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

[Link: www.vlaamsbelang.org...]

By Jove!

231 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:40:33pm

re: #194 Mike in Georgia

Alabama just beat LSU

In ot
boo-hoo.

232 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:40:43pm

re: #225 The Other Les

I think full auto fire in a personal weapon is highly overrated.

Unless you're shooting at UFO's.

233 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:40:58pm
234 Moe Katz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:41:37pm

Albania beat LSU? Does Medaura know about this?

235 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:41:48pm

Mmkay. No answer = no account for reno911. The comments alone were enough to get him banned.

236 ryannon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:41:49pm

re: #190 Thanos

Exactly. There's even a Southern Tyrol group in Italy, these idiots want Europe in a hundred xenophobic tribal splinters, in other words they want to ape the political landscape that the Taliban shelters under in the Waziristans.

Well, Europe used to be pretty much tribal not so very long ago - and I'm not even talking about the Celts. The concept of centralized governments which evolved into countries is fairly recent here. This people seem to have a strange nostalgia for their roots, as if it were somehow possible to travel back in time.

For the Bretons, it's an old battle: by and large, the population wanted absolutely nothing of the French Revolution: the liked things as they were and saw the revolutionary government in Paris much in the same way as conservative Americans see Washington. The response from Paris was to send troops into Brittany and wage what amounted to a cultural genocide: cultural because it was against the Bretons and everything they held dear, and a genocide since the government troops massacred everything in sight, meaning a large part of the unarmed and non-combattant civilian population. Many of the Bretons have neither forgotten nor forgiven, and when I read accounts of what happened there, I can easily understand why...

237 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:42:42pm

re: #233 Iron Fist

That is a hard line ethically. On the one hand, if the "research" has valuable medical uses, doesn't it kinda make those experimented upon's death meaningless? The use of the data could give their deaths meaning, that they didn't die in vain just to fulfill the whim of a Nazi doctor. On the flip side of it, as a practical matter they did die just to fulfill the whim of Nazi Doctors.

Tainted beyond rehabilitation. I know, for me, the decision was to use Grey's anatomy instead. Not as good, realistic illustrations, but it sat on my conscience better.

These days which anatomy to use is no longer a question. There is a dynamite computerized version that was done micrometer thin slice by slice from the body of a convict who specifically willed his body for the purpose.

238 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:43:12pm

re: #201 jcm

Lot's of vets brought home trophies, some very cool stuff with lots of memories attached to it.

my uncle measures each year by what he was doing in Europe. "on this date in 1944 I was in a Repple Depple in England." He was an ASTP'er that got scooped up and sent out. Lasted about 2 weeks on the front lines before taking a mortar in the Ardennes. Lost a pinky and took a load of shrapnel to the thigh and gut. by the time he got out of the hospital the war was over.

He was there for Patton's funeral but skipped it thinking "screw the brass" I've got partying and some travels to do instead. now kicks himself in the ass for not going. didn't bring back anything that I know of but didn't last too long.

239 NoSpam  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:43:31pm

re: #209 Cognito

I once had an interesting talk with a man who sold Nazi memoribilia (among many other things) He was a WWII vet, and said this was their way of paying him back for having to march across Europe.

Personally, I don't see a problem with collecting most of the stuff as long as you have a healthy attitude about it. It's the fanboys that creep me out--you know, the ones who obsessively collect any and all Nazi items and are often 'reenactors,' usually of some SS unit.

Yeah, say it's for 'history' all you want, if that makes you sleep at night...Uh huh...Riiight...

240 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:43:56pm

re: #206 jaunte

UK Babelfish does a Dutch to English translation of phrases and whole websites:
[Link: uk.babelfish.yahoo.com...]

It didn't want to translate the cartoon.

241 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:43:59pm

re: #212 NoSpam

It's an NSV hat, the band is red/black/white, the nazi colors that they used to publish their magazine in when Filip was president of the org. You are right, it's a student hat sorta... NSV is something like "Nationalische Studentversomething..."

242 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:44:14pm

re: #213 galloping granny

Not exactly true. The Soviets were allowed to take Berlin by agreement at the Yalta Conference. We certainly did have the manpower to do that ourselves.

The Soviets were "allowed" anything in their sector because neither the French nor the British nor the Americans would or could take them on. The Yalta Conference was after-the-fact and the soviets certainly weren't given all of Berlin. Precisely because we did not have the strong leadership or the manpower did Stalin walk away with everything he wanted from Yalta. Everything.

243 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:45:26pm

re: #234 Moe Katz

You just made me go back and check my spelling.

244 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:46:30pm
245 Moe Katz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:47:12pm

re: #243 Mike in Georgia

You just made me go back and check my spelling.

Nothin' wrong with your spelling. I jest don't read so good...

246 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:47:27pm

re: #226 galloping granny

At the end of WWII - sure. Had we not fed and equipped the Soviets they would have collapsed long since and become part of Germany. They had cannon fodder but damned all for canons you know. Little better equipped and not as well fed as WWI.


The soviets would have fought to the death with their finger nails if they had no more material. Or been shot in the back if they didn't.

No army took on the soviets. That is the salient point.

247 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:47:51pm

re: #222 Irene NYC

Yes. The war machine was in high gear. Its the pay me now pay me later logic. We paid later.

248 Sunlight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:48:00pm

re: #162 engineboss

Some say that the rise of naziism was made possible by the philosophers of the time (Kant, Hegel, etc). I wonder who would be considered an American philosopher ho is driving American society today. Maybe William Ayers? Ward Churchill? What does this say about the state of American thought? Hmmm.

I started listening to the Pritzker Military Library podcasted show re the elections. Their guest was Walt Mearsheimer of Israel Lobby fame. They of course didn't mention his connection to that at the beginning. I think this whole range of people are going to be making policy.

249 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:49:09pm

re: #246 Irene NYC

Th japanese were tough as well. What happened there? C'mon, at the end of WWII we were not on our last leg.

250 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:49:39pm

re: #235 Charles

Mmkay. No answer = no account for reno911. The comments alone were enough to get him banned.

After you linked a sample of "his" ,,, ummm,,, thoughts,,, small wonder! Charitibaly, even if they WERE typed in jest, they were not even remoteky comical. But, if bad humor alone is cause for banishment, I better sharpen up my wit

251 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:49:59pm

re: #246 Irene NYC

The soviets would have fought to the death with their finger nails if they had no more material. Or been shot in the back if they didn't.

No army took on the soviets. That is the salient point.

Gotta have bullets to shoot people in the back. You give the Soviets far too much credit. Were they brave as hell? Yes. Did they pour manpower in to the war effort? Sure. But they also came within a thin hair of losing jack all and would have done were it not for the food & weapons that we supplied them with - all the way from Moscow to Berlin.

252 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:50:07pm

re: #245 Moe Katz

Nothin' wrong with your spelling. I jest don't read so good...

I know you don't read fast. Thats why I type slow

253 right_on_target  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:50:55pm

re: #242 Irene NYC

The Soviets were "allowed" anything in their sector because neither the French nor the British nor the Americans would or could take them on. The Yalta Conference was after-the-fact and the soviets certainly weren't given all of Berlin. Precisely because we did not have the strong leadership or the manpower did Stalin walk away with everything he wanted from Yalta. Everything.


___
FDR was frail and sick during the Yalta conference. Stalin saw that and got everything he wanted. Germany and Poland were his prizes. Mass ethnic cleansing resulted after the war.

254 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:50:57pm

re: #244 Iron Fist

I heartily agree. I've shot machineguns, and they really are a blast. At the same time, in combat they aren't really superior to semi-automatics. They just help you run out of ammo quicker. And they are too risky to get illegally. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me.

OTOH, I think that it would be/have been appropriate to allow soldiers to bring home war trophies legally. Our Congressional leadership has failed us on that front. But, then again, they just about always failed, didn't they?

There good for suppressive fire, keep the other guys head down. And it is a blast to shoot one, if you can afford it.

255 Mike in Georgia  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:51:24pm

re: #250 sattv4u2

I could sharpen on mine for a week and it would still be a
blunt instrument.

256 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:51:31pm

re: #244 Iron Fist

But, then again, they just about always failed, didn't they?


Yep.

257 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:51:38pm

re: #251 galloping granny

You are a lady and a scholar. Furthermore, what did Reagan prove about the Soviets?

258 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:51:56pm

re: #249 NYCHardhat

Th japanese were tough as well. What happened there? C'mon, at the end of WWII we were not on our last leg.

FDR was on his last legs. And the American public wanted our boys home, pronto. There was still the Pacific theatre to win also.

259 Moe Katz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:52:13pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

I know you don't read fast. Thats why I type slow

Well, when I got to high school the English teacher said I was illiterate so I got a copy of my parents' marriage certificate to prove him wrong.

260 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:52:26pm

re: #220 Sharmuta

I copied the link from the bar in the flash pop up window

261 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:52:37pm
262 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:52:44pm

re: #203 galloping granny

Europe never had any concept of melting pot - or individualism. Individualism is a strictly American concept. It is only here where the power of government, the authority to rule, is given by the individuals. In Europe it is the government, under the authority of the church, that holds the power and extends whatever rights it may choose to the individual.

That shows how forward-thinkingly (heh, is that a word?) visionary our founding fathers were in creating a document that enshrines the rights of the individual.

We have several (small) immigrant communities here in Nashville. A year or so ago a convenience store owner (Egyptian, I believe) was robbed and killed by a couple of street punks (either drug or gang-affiliated.) He was well-loved by the people in the surrounding neighborhoods - people of all national origins, races and religious affiliations - and the outpouring of sympathy and caring concern for his family and their livelihood was widely reported in our media.

Wonder how something like the murder of a Muslim small business owner would go over in many cities in Europe?

263 Moe Katz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:53:11pm

re: #258 Irene NYC

FDR was on his last legs.

I realize the irony here is unintentional...

264 Outrider  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:53:42pm

re: #244 Iron Fist

I heartily agree. I've shot machineguns, and they really are a blast. At the same time, in combat they aren't really superior to semi-automatics. They just help you run out of ammo quicker. And they are too risky to get illegally. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me.

OTOH, I think that it would be/have been appropriate to allow soldiers to bring home war trophies legally. Our Congressional leadership has failed us on that front. But, then again, they just about always failed, didn't they?

Which is why fire teams aren't supposed to go full auto (just two gunners), and why the Army went to the three round bursts now. Otherwise everyone runs out of ammo at same time. That said, there are times when everyone on full auto is required if you are going to get your butt out of there.

265 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:54:09pm

re: #259 Moe Katz

Well, when I got to high school the English teacher said I was illiterate so I got a copy of my parents' marriage certificate to prove him wrong.

Bad, katz, bad...
ROFL.

266 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:54:17pm

re: #258 Irene NYC

All I'm saying is that we could've have dramatically altered history. We would've come out on top.

267 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:55:02pm

Can I just start out this evening by saying Jan's last name caused me to take a second, and much closer, look. Hi, y'all!

268 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:55:41pm

re: #244 Iron Fist

I heartily agree. I've shot machineguns, and they really are a blast. At the same time, in combat they aren't really superior to semi-automatics. They just help you run out of ammo quicker. And they are too risky to get illegally. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me.

you can buy them in a lot of states, like Oregon legally. All you have to do is send in your class III tax stamp app, 200 bucks, and wait 90 days. All but the select fire weapons are just useless except for supressive fire in a combat zone or converting money into noise (jcm-ism). but all fully legal.

269 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:55:46pm

re: #109 Iron Fist

OT,

I went to a gun show today. The crowd didn't seem to be any larger than usual, nor sales any brisker, but there was a real lack of weapons for sale. There were a handful of AK-47s, and maybe a dozen AR-15s, but nothing particularly exotic or noteworthy.

This could be because there's been a run on military style weapons, or it could be just a coincidence. This show usually has some Class III stuff available, but there was just the one guy that brings his silenced sniper rifles (two of them) for display only.

The only thing I saw of personel interest was an old 10 gauge double-barreled shotgun for $350. Double-barrels are generally pricey and ten gauge ones are not common.

The other thing I noticed is than none of the importers that sell bulk ammo were there. Usually you can walk in with some cash, and walk out with ammo that is sold in crates of 1000-1200 rounds. There was nothing like that here today.

They might have already sold out.

I'm going to go looking for a nice, simple hunting rifle, maybe in .30 cal. I'm toying with the idea of a lever-action Winchester clone, but I haven't made a decision yet.

270 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:56:31pm

Sorry t o post off topic, but I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything about BHO's grandma's funeral? I have not and wonder if it has taken place yet and if Barrack missed it,or is it not happened yet?

271 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:56:33pm

re: #251 galloping granny

Gotta have bullets to shoot people in the back. You give the Soviets far too much credit. Were they brave as hell? Yes. Did they pour manpower in to the war effort? Sure. But they also came within a thin hair of losing jack all and would have done were it not for the food & weapons that we supplied them with - all the way from Moscow to Berlin.

Again, the point is they didn't lose jack all, they won almost everything they wanted and the fact that they knew how to play Washington to get what they needed and wanted just shows how smart they were. We, on the other hand (including Churchill), didn't understand much about Stalin. And I'm sure the soviets kept enough bullets handy for their own internal purposes.

272 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:57:57pm

re: #263 Moe Katz

I realize the irony here is unintentional...

No, it was. Cognito was around so I thought he'd get a kick out of that.
;)

273 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:58:00pm

re: #115 Killian Bundy

The second time they show the book he's carrying is much better, the cover takes up the whole screen.

It appears to contain either a B&W photo or montage of several men. The title appears to run vertically down the spine in large gray lettering. There apears to be a five word subtitle in horzontal yellow lettering.

/best I can do without better eyesight and the ability to screenshot and enhance the image

When he flips through it, I thought I saw a full-page picture of Hitler with a group of Wehrmacht officers. They were wearing German uniforms, in any case.

274 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:58:08pm

re: #261 Iron Fist

But we probably couldn't have won it without the Soviets. The Russians ate the Nazis alive at Stalingrad. And Stalingrad was the high water mark. After that it was all down hill for the Nazis.

I'm not so sure it was the Russians that ate the Nazis alive at Stalingrad so much as the Russian winter and Hitler's micromanagement.

Sooner or later we would have won even without the Soviets. Land blasted by war produces no food. We supplied Europe with most of their food for well over a decade you know. I was surprised recently to learn while researching for our Decades of the 20th studies this year (I homeschool my grand and her friends) that rationing in the UK was worse by quite some bit after the war than it was during the war.

275 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:58:35pm

re: #271 Irene NYC

And the arms race proved the Soviets had nothing on us. They didn't then and they don't now.

276 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:58:44pm

re: #264 Outrider

Which is why fire teams aren't supposed to go full auto (just two gunners), and why the Army went to the three round bursts now. Otherwise everyone runs out of ammo at same time. That said, there are times when everyone on full auto is required if you are going to get your butt out of there.

that's what the SAW is for

277 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:59:04pm

Updated with the neo-Nazi pub story.

278 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 4:59:56pm

re: #261 Iron Fist

But we probably couldn't have won it without the Soviets. The Russians ate the Nazis alive at Stalingrad. And Stalingrad was the high water mark. After that it was all down hill for the Nazis.


Hey Iron Fist,
I read some study published last year (?), I think, about how close the nazis were to defeating the soviets at Stalingrad. I'll try to dig it up.

279 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:00:44pm

re: #137 wolfie

I just asked Mr. Wolf if he had ever seen Nazi or semi-Nazi type stuff at a gun show. He said NO WAY he had ever seen anything like that himself.

(He's only been to a few of them, though.)

Offhand, the only publisher I recall seeing at gun shows is Paladin Press.

They're more libertarian than anything else.

280 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:00:45pm

re: #275 NYCHardhat

And the arms race proved the Soviets had nothing on us. They didn't then and they don't now.

They will have something on us after Jan. 20

281 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:00:55pm

re: #273 Steffan

When he flips through it, I thought I saw a full-page picture of Hitler with a group of Wehrmacht officers. They were wearing German uniforms, in any case.

/it's not clear that he's the one flipping through that particular book, but if someone could read what the writing on the cover was, we'd probably be able to tell

282 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:00:55pm

re: #275 NYCHardhat

And the arms race proved the Soviets had nothing on us. They didn't then and they don't now.


They were very good at bluffing, and we were willing to believe. Takes two to tango.

283 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:01:34pm

re: #278 Irene NYC

Thats because they threw 85% of their forces to the eastern front. The winter did them in as well as Hitler's ego. Operation Barbarossa we his fatal mistake.

284 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:02:04pm

re: #280 n in wi

Touche

285 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:02:15pm

re: #277 Charles

Updated with the neo-Nazi pub story.


The beer hall putsch reenactment is just for historical purposes

286 screaming_eagle  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:02:26pm

The Russians never would have stood a chance without all the supplies we sent to them. Most history books tend to belittle the amount of equipment we sent to them.

287 Moe Katz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:02:38pm

re: #272 Irene NYC

No, it was. Cognito was around so I thought he'd get a kick out of that.
;)

Good one, then.

288 logboy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:03:18pm

re: #244 Iron Fist

I heartily agree. I've shot machineguns, and they really are a blast. At the same time, in combat they aren't really superior to semi-automatics. They just help you run out of ammo quicker. And they are too risky to get illegally. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me.

OTOH, I think that it would be/have been appropriate to allow soldiers to bring home war trophies legally. Our Congressional leadership has failed us on that front. But, then again, they just about always failed, didn't they?

Not all war trophies are forbidden. Obviously you can't bring back live ammo or weapons, but you can bring back most of the other stuff. There's a big PowerPoint you have to watch that tells you what you can and cannot bring home. I brought home some Iraqi flags and clothing and whatnot. Other guys brought home old Iraqi k-pots. Some brought back shrapnel.

I strongly disagree with your statement about semis being just as effective as a full auto weapon. Nothing compares to a full auto .50 or M240B (the M60 replacement) in terms of firepower. I would know, I was infantry.

289 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:03:25pm

re: #196 Irene NYC

FDR would never have gotten involved in WWII if he didn't know that he USSR would provide most of the fodder for nazi cannons.

We provided the hardware in large quantities, they provided the dead bodies in large numbers.

Hitler broke the pact with Stalin in June 1941. The US entered the war in Europe only after Hitler declared war on the US on December 11, 1941.

US deliveries of materials under Lend Lease didn't really start until October 1941 - just as the US provided material for Britain. Only about 20% of lend lease went to Stalin - the USSR was quite capable of its own massive production - and Stalin was quite willing to trade lives and material for gains against Hitler. In terms of material and cannon fodder, what delivered victory to Stalin were T34 tanks, ruthless generals, the lives to spend, and GMC 2.5 ton trucks from the US.

In fact, in 1941, one of the common US sentiments about Hitler fighting Stalin was hoping that neither side ran out of bullets.

In Yalta, FDR basically gave Eastern Europe to Stalin. In Potsdam, after the war ended, Truman, only could rubber stamp what FDR gave away...unless he was willing to fight another war to liberate Eastern Europe. Yalta was in Feb 1945 - and FDR was a weakened sickened leader who had less than 2 months to live. At Yalta, the plan for the partition of Germany and Berlin was also advocated and accepted.

290 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:04:34pm

The two in the hats in front of the pub are also NSV.

291 kynna  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:05:02pm

re: #25 wolfie

So, how much evidence do people have to see before facing the fact that they are no longer dealing with "isolated" incidents?

Good grief.

At this point I think they have to know. They've just made their personal 'peace' with it. I'd like to believe that's not true, but come ON! The response to this kind of post seems to typically be to tell Charles to knock-it-off rather than to engage it and figure out where to go from there.

Bleh.

292 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:05:19pm

re: #290 Thanos

The two in the hats in front of the pub are also NSV.

Looks like ol' Fil himself in the suit.

293 Moe Katz  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:05:50pm

re: #268 spidly

All but the select fire weapons are just useless except for supressive fire in a combat zone or converting money into noise (jcm-ism). .

Heh, nice jcm-ism. :)

294 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:05:56pm

Has anybody here been keeping an eye on the Israeli/Palestinian situation?

The situation in Gaza has gone completely back to the way it was before the truce, only with the Palestinians using more advanced missiles.

Typical.

295 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:06:21pm

re: #289 Athos
FDR was in discussion about the war long before the US entered it. He had to convince the public first due to the high level of anti-war and pacifist sentiment. Pearl Harbor finally convinced a very wary nation of entering the world war. People still remembered the horrors of WWI.

296 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:06:23pm

re: #277 Charles

Updated with the neo-Nazi pub story.

Good grief!

There is no denying where that "s" derived from. None whatsoever.

297 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:06:53pm

More than 20 killed in Russian nuclear sub accident:

More than 20 people were killed and another 20 injured when a fire extinguishing system was inadvertently activated aboard a Russian nuclear submarine in the Pacific Ocean, the Russian navy said Sunday.
"During sea trials of a nuclear-powered submarine of the Pacific Fleet the firefighting system went off unsanctioned, killing over 20 people, including servicemen and workers," said Captain Igor Dygalo, the navy's spokesman
298 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:06:54pm

re: #289 Athos

Hitler broke the pact with Stalin in June 1941. The US entered the war in Europe only after Hitler declared war on the US on December 11, 1941.

US deliveries of materials under Lend Lease didn't really start until October 1941 - just as the US provided material for Britain. Only about 20% of lend lease went to Stalin - the USSR was quite capable of its own massive production - and Stalin was quite willing to trade lives and material for gains against Hitler. In terms of material and cannon fodder, what delivered victory to Stalin were T34 tanks, ruthless generals, the lives to spend, and GMC 2.5 ton trucks from the US.

In fact, in 1941, one of the common US sentiments about Hitler fighting Stalin was hoping that neither side ran out of bullets.

In Yalta, FDR basically gave Eastern Europe to Stalin. In Potsdam, after the war ended, Truman, only could rubber stamp what FDR gave away...unless he was willing to fight another war to liberate Eastern Europe. Yalta was in Feb 1945 - and FDR was a weakened sickened leader who had less than 2 months to live. At Yalta, the plan for the partition of Germany and Berlin was also advocated and accepted.

I would agree with all of that except that bit about the US didn't enter the war until after December 7, 1941. You need to add the word "publicly" there. There were things going on that have yet to make the history books. I have some of them on tape from a guy who lived them - my Dad.

299 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:07:10pm

re: #166 galloping granny

So you're saying McCarthy had it right after all. And that we have let all the smoke and mirrors about witch hunts distract us from his rightness. Just like all these years we've listened to sob stories about the innocence of the Rosenbergs - until the evidence was released recently.

McCarthy was right -- but he was an asshat and a blustering moron. He manufactured evidence, bullied witnesses, and generally defamed his own cause to the point where no one took him seriously.

300 Gitarzan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:07:35pm

re: #235 Charles

Mmkay. No answer = no account for reno911. The comments alone were enough to get him banned.

Lao Stinky's wrath is swift and just, as always...

301 Luigi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:08:01pm

Charles, congratulations on your principled decision ages ago to steer clear of this branch of the anti-jihad movement. That took courage and judgment.

302 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:08:12pm

re: #291 kynna

At this point I think they have to know. They've just made their personal 'peace' with it. I'd like to believe that's not true, but come ON! The response to this kind of post seems to typically be to tell Charles to knock-it-off rather than to engage it and figure out where to go from there.

Bleh.

They do know. This idea that they don't has to stop. Plausible deniablity ended long ago for these bloggers and writers. We should likewise stop denying to ourselves that there is anything else going on here but their acceptance of vile allies with full knowledge of what side they've chosen.

303 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:08:12pm

The past is prologue.
FDR implemented many Gov. programs during the Depression and WWII.
I'm afraid the same will be attempted during this financial crisis,real or perceived.
Liberal agenda requires the proletarian be convinced of his incapability.

304 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:08:23pm

Nah. That's not a nazi "S", they're just Slayer fans. Really.

/willful denial off

305 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:09:09pm

re: #299 Steffan

McCarthy was right -- but he was an asshat and a blustering moron. He manufactured evidence, bullied witnesses, and generally defamed his own cause to the point where no one took him seriously.

Or so some say. I've seen the same exact things said about the Rosenberg prosecutions - right up until the released the evidence not long ago. One of these days I guess I'll go look at the McCarthy evidence for myself.

306 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:09:11pm

re: #297 jcm

More than 20 killed in Russian nuclear sub accident:

What kind of fire-fighting system was that?!

307 realwest  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:09:25pm

Hey y'all - just a drive by posting to say THANK YOU to Charles for his continually shining the light on these neo-nazi's and for his stance on "NO fascists in my foxhole" which, of course, translates for me to No facists in OUR Foxhole here at LGF!
I tried to give Charles an upding but for some reason (maybe Charles was putting up the newest material) LGF said I couldn't rate anything unless I was logged in, which, of course, I was.
So Charles, if you're reading this, please give yourself an upding from me!
Gotta go eat some supper now but I do hope to see all of you down the road.

308 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:09:37pm

re: #297 jcm


Chernobyl

309 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:11:07pm

re: #173 Thanos

That's pretty insightful of him, WWII by Europeans is seen as the war between the red and the black... international communism and national socialism.

The neo nazi rock groups that make up the Blood and Honor concerts got their start as "rock against communism" in the '80s -- most famously "Skrewdriver". Don't recommnend googling that...

The popular German Communist motto during the '30s was, "First Brown, Then Red." They fully expected to overthrow the Nazis.

According to Kurt Saxon, both sides were very fond of cyanide during this time, and used it on each other rather liberally.

310 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:11:37pm

re: #308 NYCHardhat

Chernobyl


What an incredible journey on that website! So sad. So very sad. One of my favorite people in the whole world died of some sort of stomach cancer contracted from Chernobyl.

311 NoSpam  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:11:41pm

re: #274 galloping granny

We actually had some shortages here postwar as well when people stopped growing food in their victory gardens, expecting everything to return to normal too quickly. Obviously not on the same level as what happened in Europe but interesting in showing just how much those little gardens were producing.

312 lifeofthemind  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:12:16pm

re: #248 Sunlight

I started listening to the Pritzker Military Library podcasted show re the elections. Their guest was Walt Mearsheimer of Israel Lobby fame. They of course didn't mention his connection to that at the beginning. I think this whole range of people are going to be making policy.

I know John Mearshiemer, I'll say he is a friend of mine, much as I disagree with his position on Israel and the Jews. Steve Walt was his co-author. Thanks for the heads up on the Pritzker outfit.
Linky: [Link: www.pritzkermilitarylibrary.org...]

313 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:12:17pm

re: #306 Joo-LiZ

What kind of fire-fighting system was that?!

could be Halon. we have it here at work. If there's a fire, the Halon will dump from tanks in the ceiling. It literally sucks the oxygen out of the room, thereby killing the fire.
Before you ask, we get a 30 second alarm (warning) before it dumps so we can run out

314 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:12:41pm

re: #306 Joo-LiZ

What kind of fire-fighting system was that?!

The oopsie kind. Sub systems are designed to do that, suppress the fire. If you going to be in the compartment you've got to have a re-breather on.

315 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:12:46pm

re: #310 Irene NYC

Its definitely creepy. Laundry still hanging on lines.

316 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:13:50pm

re: #315 NYCHardhat
The children's daycare center/kindergarten and all those empty apartments. Enough for a million nightmares.

317 Luigi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:14:34pm

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
[Link: newsroom.ucla.edu...]

You have to wonder what impact FDR's wrong-headed New Deal policies had on our ability to fight WWII. Surely we would have been better prepared if we went into it during prosperity, which we probably would have without the New Deal. Also, if the Depression ended in the mid-1930's like the UCLA economists posit it might have then perhaps the confidence would have existed within Europe to confront Hitler earlier. Perhaps his rise to power would have been met with more resistance within Germany.

318 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:14:34pm

re: #299 Steffan

McCarthy was right -- but he was an asshat and a blustering moron. He manufactured evidence, bullied witnesses, and generally defamed his own cause to the point where no one took him seriously.

Plus, he was quite the tippler.

(read that in Greta Van Susteren's book - her father was a close friend of Joe McCarthy)

319 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:14:40pm

re: #306 Joo-LiZ

What kind of fire-fighting system was that?!

you are openz da hatch and da fire is beink gone

320 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:15:05pm

re: #311 NoSpam

We actually had some shortages here postwar as well when people stopped growing food in their victory gardens, expecting everything to return to normal too quickly. Obviously not on the same level as what happened in Europe but interesting in showing just how much those little gardens were producing.

Somewhere I have the figures on just how much those Victory Gardens produced - an astonishing amount. I'll see if I can find it quickly in the madhouse of curriculum material.

I remember sending packages to schoolchildren in Europe in the 50's. And when the people of Berlin decided to take all of the rubble and pile it all up to make a mountain, which they then turned into a park.

321 NoSpam  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:15:12pm

A shame its filled with creepy weirdos. That building is cool looking...

323 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:16:24pm

i am anti commie as the next lizzard but i lost no sleep over the soviets raping the germans frankly they were the only ones who punished the germans and frankly i am grateful to them for that.

324 right_on_target  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:16:54pm

re: #289 Athos

Hitler broke the pact with Stalin in June 1941. The US entered the war in Europe only after Hitler declared war on the US on December 11, 1941.

US deliveries of materials under Lend Lease didn't really start until October 1941 - just as the US provided material for Britain. Only about 20% of lend lease went to Stalin - the USSR was quite capable of its own massive production - and Stalin was quite willing to trade lives and material for gains against Hitler. In terms of material and cannon fodder, what delivered victory to Stalin were T34 tanks, ruthless generals, the lives to spend, and GMC 2.5 ton trucks from the US.

In fact, in 1941, one of the common US sentiments about Hitler fighting Stalin was hoping that neither side ran out of bullets.

In Yalta, FDR basically gave Eastern Europe to Stalin. In Potsdam, after the war ended, Truman, only could rubber stamp what FDR gave away...unless he was willing to fight another war to liberate Eastern Europe. Yalta was in Feb 1945 - and FDR was a weakened sickened leader who had less than 2 months to live. At Yalta, the plan for the partition of Germany and Berlin was also advocated and accepted.


___
AND the partition of Poland. Russia never gave back the territory it took from Poland when Russia invaded from the east at the beginning of WWII.

325 CapeCoddah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:18:08pm

Mike Huckabee is on his new FOX show kissing Oliver Stones ass.

326 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:18:09pm

I have a question about a cross I've seen associated with Germany/Nazis. It's a cross with a narrow intersection whose arms get fatter and end in a kind of serif manner.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I saw a kid with a sweat-shirt today with that cross--in red--imposed on some black dragons. He was about five.

327 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:18:49pm

re: #323 yochanan

The wermacht soldiers in the east ran west in their underwear to try and surrender to the Brits and the Americans, so terrible was Ivan.

328 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:19:01pm

re: #326 MandyManners

this one?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

329 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:19:06pm

re: #295 Irene NYC

FDR was in discussion about the war long before the US entered it. He had to convince the public first due to the high level of anti-war and pacifist sentiment. Pearl Harbor finally convinced a very wary nation of entering the world war. People still remembered the horrors of WWI.

I disagree it was the 'horrors of WWI' that prompted the US considerations - it was the fact that the pacifists did not want to fight another European war and believed that isolationism would be their best defense. There was also the Amerika First sympathies to the fascist ideals.

FDR saw that this would not remain a solely European war - and also had his own reservations of the fascism in Europe. Much of the debate was about should the US enter on its own - like it did in WW1 or have to wait for some overt action like the declaration of war on the US by Germany and Italy on the 12/11/41. The fears around lend lease were entirely based around the preception that this was a move around a policy of US neutrality. Yet, FDR and the US could also not let Britain fall. So, he started Lend Lease...and the patrols of the Western Atlantic to protect US interests...and waited for the Hitler declaration.

The 'what if' might be -what if Hitler did not declare war on the US on 12/11/41. Would FDR have declared war on Hitler?

I'm far from a fan of FDR, but the US involvement in WW2 was not FDR's 'trumped up war' as many Republicans commonly said in late 1941-1942.

330 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:19:35pm

re: #195 Iron Fist

Yeah, I have a friend that has a huge Nazi swastika banner that he bought off a crack addict. He keeps it in a little box thrown in the back of his closet because that's where it belongs as the symbol of a defeated Enemy.

Where it becomes really difficult is when things the Nazis did has some redeeming value. We had a couple of anatomy texts that were printed in Germany in the fifties. If you looked closely, on some of the illustrations there were indicators of Nazi Germany. Things like SS runes and little swastikas in where the artist had signed the illustration.

Creepy shit, 'cause yopu know that the reason the images were so compelling was because these SOBs killed people and disected them to make their illustrations.

True. The main reason we know as much as we do about the mechanics of the death process is because those pigfuckers documented the deaths of thousands of human guinea pigs. They discovered, forex, precisely how long it takes an average person to die of hypothermia by putting people in freezing water and monitoring their deaths.

Hanging was entirely too good for the Nazis. Ritual disembowellment or boiling in oil would have been far more appropriate.

331 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:19:49pm

re: #326 MandyManners

re: #328 sattv4u2

this one?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


It goes back centuries prior to the Nazis

332 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:20:07pm

re: #325 CapeCoddah

I hate that man. Stone, not Huckabee.

333 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:20:21pm

re: #326 MandyManners

I have a question about a cross I've seen associated with Germany/Nazis. It's a cross with a narrow intersection whose arms get fatter and end in a kind of serif manner.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I saw a kid with a sweat-shirt today with that cross--in red--imposed on some black dragons. He was about five.

It was the Iron Cross. Does anyone know about superimposing it on dragons/possible phoenixes?

334 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:20:36pm

re: #326 MandyManners

Maltese cross. From Knights of Malta. Often used as a logo for skateboard equipment. Predates the nazis.

335 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:21:08pm

re: #328 sattv4u2

this one?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yes! That's it. It took me a second to figure out to google "nazi crosses". What about the dragons/phoenixes?

336 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:21:51pm

re: #324 right_on_target

___
AND the partition of Poland. Russia never gave back the territory it took from Poland when Russia invaded from the east at the beginning of WWII.

You cannot blame that entirely on the Communists. Poland has been going back and forth between independence, Germany and Russia for hundreds of years. If you study a little Russian history you will quickly come to the conclusion that the only real difference between Tsarist Russia, Soviet Russia and Putin's Russia is the name of the man in charge. The aims, goals and national policies haven't changed much.

337 Luigi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:21:56pm

I'm into trashing FDR now that New Deal 2.0 seems to be about to happen.

Here's a bunch of info on some of Roosevelt's outside affairs with Ms. Mercer and Ms. LeHand.

[Link: www.google.com...]

338 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:17pm

re: #331 sattv4u2

re: #328 sattv4u2


It goes back centuries prior to the Nazis

re: #334 Ojoe

Maltese cross. From Knights of Malta. Often used as a logo for skateboard equipment. Predates the nazis.

From what I've seen so far tonight, it resembles the Iron Cross.

Do you know anything about dragons/phoenixes?

339 ryannon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:25pm

re: #322 Ojoe

Right on: they are a nice break.

Keep 'em coming :-)

340 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:26pm

Maltese Cross

Fire Departments use it too.

341 CapeCoddah  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:27pm

re: #333 MandyManners

It was the Iron Cross. Does anyone know about superimposing it on dragons/possible phoenixes?

Is this it, Mandy?

[Link: www.darkmoongraphix.com...]

342 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:38pm

re: #329 Athos

Agreed. Further, it should be noted that while FDR made mistakes at Yalta, the Soviet Union was going to control Eastern Europe regardless of what he did. There was no will to fight the USSR in the West in 1945 as even the USA was war-weary by that time. Patton may have been right about the nature of the USSR but nothing could have come his ideas.

343 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:39pm

re: #292 Sharmuta

Yes indeed it does. I recognize that face behind him as well, Morel?

Here's an old NSV vid, they've also now gotten rid of the old Odin's cross logo, and adopted a Spartan helm above Nazi colors. I believe the meeting room that I posted a pic of above is in the basement of a pub iirc. In the video you can see NSV speaking before that poster wall, and voorpost also meets there.

344 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:22:48pm

re: #302 Sharmuta

They do know. This idea that they don't has to stop. Plausible deniablity ended long ago for these bloggers and writers. We should likewise stop denying to ourselves that there is anything else going on here but their acceptance of vile allies with full knowledge of what side they've chosen.

Would not the moral equivalence to their stance be this:

(not presented for the facts but for the example or however it's worded on Law and Order)

I oppose President Barack Obama's policies. I believe he needs to be voted out of office.

The Imperial Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan opposes President Barack Obama's policies. He believes Obama needs to be voted out of office.

The RNC opposes President Barack Obama's policies. They believe he needs to be voted out of office.

So we all join in a loose coalition to oppose President Barack Obama.

The RNC and I hate all that the KKK stands for, but we'll put up with them because they help our cause.

Isn't that the same thing Robert Spencer is promoting? Somebody tell me if I'm off base here.

345 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:23:15pm

re: #333 MandyManners

It was the Iron Cross. Does anyone know about superimposing it on dragons/possible phoenixes?

Like of custom bike shops use a cross, like West Coast Choppers.

346 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:23:22pm

re: #338 MandyManners

From what I've seen so far tonight, it resembles the Iron Cross.

Do you know anything about dragons/phoenixes?

Went to a conference there once. Good weather. Good golf courses.

347 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:23:30pm

re: #338 MandyManners

Dragons & Phoenixes are cool, my kids like them.

It is not much more complicated than that usually.

348 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:23:46pm

re: #298 galloping granny

Yeah, I didn't mention the US naval patrols and actions that took place in the Western Atlantic in 1941 before Pearl Harbor. Not too many people remember the USS Reuben James and what she was doing when hit by a U-Boat. I just think that these actions were more around protecting our interests as opposed to trying to gin up a reason for a declaration of war.

(Granted there might be more that we don't know about beyond this - but fundamentally, because I consider isolationism a failed strategy / approach, the US sooner or later would have had to entered the war.

349 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:23:53pm

I ask this because the child's father and I are "park-parents" and sometimes sit on the same bench and chat. Today, he said "There sure are plenty of darkies up here. They had a regular darky convention here last night."

I bean-dipped and got The Kid into my car quickly.

350 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:24:58pm

re: #341 CapeCoddah

Is this it, Mandy?

[Link: www.darkmoongraphix.com...]

No. It was starker than that. I don't know how to describe it. A double-headed dragon/phoenix.

351 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:25:16pm

re: #327 Ojoe

The wermacht soldiers in the east ran west in their underwear to try and surrender to the Brits and the Americans, so terrible was Ivan.

frankly i wish we had sent um back PAYBACK IS A B'''H

352 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:25:25pm

re: #327 Ojoe

The wermacht soldiers in the east ran west in their underwear to try and surrender to the Brits and the Americans, so terrible was Ivan.

My landlord in Germany had been an engineer on the V-rockets. One night he and my Dad sat and swapped war stories while I translated for them. Herbert said that the Americans came and took the rockets but left the people be. Then they heard the Russians were coming and he knew that when they found the rockets gone the Russians would take the people. He walked to West Germany in the clothes on this back in the dead of winter. Those who stayed were never heard of again.

353 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:25:50pm

re: #345 jcm

Like of custom bike shops use a cross, like West Coast Choppers.

No. See my No. 350.

I'm frustrated that I don't know how to paint the picture of what I saw.

354 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:25:58pm

De Leeuw van Vlaanderen translates to "The Lion of Flanders"

This is the same lion on the Vlaams Belang flag which is referred to as the "beast" in this photo archive.

355 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:26:36pm

re: #329 Athos
I clearly wrote anti-war and pacifist sentiments. And I clearly referred to the American public about that, not FDR.

356 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:27:12pm

re: #338 MandyManners

From what I've seen so far tonight, it resembles the Iron Cross.

Do you know anything about dragons/phoenixes?

The Iron Cross predates the Nazis too. By quite some little bit. In fact, I was surprised this week while reading a book I got for the kiddo about WWI to find - documented and with pictures no less - that those Storm Troopers were not some invention of Hitler's. They were the Kaiser's Storm Troopers in World War I - in identical uniforms and helmets.

357 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:27:35pm

re: #323 yochanan

i am anti commie as the next lizzard but i lost no sleep over the soviets raping the germans frankly they were the only ones who punished the germans and frankly i am grateful to them for that.

I sorry, but as a former soldier I'm going to have to ding you down on that one. There are things no soldier should do or tolerate being done by others.

And I don't care if someone's baby sister was raped and murdered by Herr Doktor Oberst Direlwanger himself, there is no excuse to behave like a subhuman animal. I will not tolerate, let alone approve, of it.

358 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:27:40pm

We still need to find a candidate for 2012. I'm still looking.

359 callahan23  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:27:58pm

re: #326 MandyManners

I have a question about a cross I've seen associated with Germany/Nazis. It's a cross with a narrow intersection whose arms get fatter and end in a kind of serif manner.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I saw a kid with a sweat-shirt today with that cross--in red--imposed on some black dragons. He was about five.

That cross is called the "Eisernes Kreuz" = Iron Cross, which derived from a Prussian military decoration and was reflecting earliest designs originating from the German Knight Order of the 14th century.
The German Bundeswehr (Armed Forces) still uses that cross design as its logo.

360 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:27:59pm

re: #349 MandyManners

I ask this because the child's father and I are "park-parents" and sometimes sit on the same bench and chat. Today, he said "There sure are plenty of darkies up here. They had a regular darky convention here last night."

I bean-dipped and got The Kid into my car quickly.

Gak!

361 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:28:02pm

re: #204 Irene NYC

It would have been what? We didn't have the troops to finish off the Soviets. We could barely keep the soviets out of west Germany. Get real.

We had the troops -- that was the largest standing army in US history. What we didn't have was the political will; at the time, the Soviets were our friends and allies. The reason we got mobbed in Korea was because of the catastrophic demobilization after V-J Day.

It took our politicians a while to understand the Soviet threat.

362 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:29:09pm

re: #357 The Other Les

I sorry, but as a former soldier I'm going to have to ding you down on that one. There are things no soldier should do or tolerate being done by others.

And I don't care if someone's baby sister was raped and murdered by Herr Doktor Oberst Direlwanger himself, there is no excuse to behave like a subhuman animal. I will not tolerate, let alone approve, of it.

Thank you Les. Your words were those of a true man of honor.

363 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:29:37pm

re: #348 Athos

Yeah, I didn't mention the US naval patrols and actions that took place in the Western Atlantic in 1941 before Pearl Harbor. Not too many people remember the USS Reuben James and what she was doing when hit by a U-Boat. I just think that these actions were more around protecting our interests as opposed to trying to gin up a reason for a declaration of war.

(Granted there might be more that we don't know about beyond this - but fundamentally, because I consider isolationism a failed strategy / approach, the US sooner or later would have had to entered the war.

Not just the Western Atlantic Athos.

364 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:29:42pm

The swastika also predates Nazis.

365 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:30:05pm

re: #360 jcm

Precisely.

366 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:30:17pm

re: #344 Intrepid
We're not at war. Our existential existence is not yet threatened by Obama. We don't need to ally ourselves with the KKK or any other lynchers or killers.

You do the republicans a huge disservice with such an example.

367 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:30:30pm

re: #349 MandyManners

I ask this because the child's father and I are "park-parents" and sometimes sit on the same bench and chat. Today, he said "There sure are plenty of darkies up here. They had a regular darky convention here last night."

I bean-dipped and got The Kid into my car quickly.

Sounds like some of my east TN relatives, Mandy.

Only they wouldn't have been so nice as to say "darkies".

368 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:30:59pm

re: #358 NYCHardhat

We still need to find a candidate for 2012. I'm still looking.


I'll offer a list, in no particular order
S. Palin
M. Romney
N. Gingrich
M. Pence
P. Ryan
B. Jindahl

369 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:31:02pm

re: #364 MandyManners

I believe its an asian symbol. Correct?

370 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:31:33pm

re: #361 Steffan

It took our politicians a while to understand the Soviet threat.

There are still a lot of politicians who do not realize that peace comes from strength - and diplomacy requires a credible military ability in order to succeed.

371 right_on_target  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:31:39pm

re: #336 galloping granny

You cannot blame that entirely on the Communists. Poland has been going back and forth between independence, Germany and Russia for hundreds of years. If you study a little Russian history you will quickly come to the conclusion that the only real difference between Tsarist Russia, Soviet Russia and Putin's Russia is the name of the man in charge. The aims, goals and national policies haven't changed much.


___
After WWII there was a mass expulsion of Poles from eastern Poland that was ceded to Russia. Those people were re-located to German territories that were ceded to Poland. The eastern Poles became western Poles!

372 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:31:41pm

re: #357 The Other Les

I sorry, but as a former soldier I'm going to have to ding you down on that one. There are things no soldier should do or tolerate being done by others.

And I don't care if someone's baby sister was raped and murdered by Herr Doktor Oberst Direlwanger himself, there is no excuse to behave like a subhuman animal. I will not tolerate, let alone approve, of it.

MY WIFE'S FAMILY WAS BUTCHERED BY THE GERMANS F''K UM THE WARMACK COMMITED THE SAME TYPES OF CRIMES AS THE SS AND FRANKLY I DON'T GIVE A DAMN IF YOU DING ME DOWN OR NOT

373 legalpad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:31:55pm

re: #288 logboy

My son enjoyed the full auto with his SAW a couple of times in Baghdad.

374 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:32:09pm

re: #350 MandyManners

No. It was starker than that. I don't know how to describe it. A double-headed dragon/phoenix.

A griffin?

375 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:32:20pm

re: #350 MandyManners

No. It was starker than that. I don't know how to describe it. A double-headed dragon/phoenix.

sounds like my mother-in-law!

376 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:32:25pm

re: #349 MandyManners

Bean dipped?

377 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:32:57pm

re: #376 NYCHardhat

Bean dipped?

Mandy-ism

378 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:33:17pm

re: #364 MandyManners

The swastika also predates Nazis.

By thousands of years. Used by both the Hindu and many American Indian groups. Tsarina Alexandra quite liked the swastika (it was a symbol of good luck about 1900) and many of her photo albums and diaries were decorated with it. And I happen to have more than a few postcards from the 1900 era that have swastikas in the corners.

379 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:33:56pm

re: #367 Intrepid

Sounds like some of my east TN relatives, Mandy.

Only they wouldn't have been so nice as to say "darkies".

In previous conversations, we'd talked about race relations and I'd mentioned that I thought that *that* particular word was as bad as the "c" word. Maybe he's trying to come on to me. I don't know.

380 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:00pm

re: #377 sattv4u2

I see.

381 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:02pm

re: #258 Irene NYC

FDR was on his last legs.

Groan...

382 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:05pm

my only regret about dropping the 'BOMBS' on japan is that berlin did not get one.

383 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:16pm

re: #369 NYCHardhat

I believe its an asian symbol. Correct?

Indian, the original Aryan.

384 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:31pm

re: #369 NYCHardhat

I believe its an asian symbol. Correct?


The Indians have used the swastika for centuries. Possibly longer.
;)

385 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:52pm

re: #374 Intrepid

A griffin?

Double-headed. Skinnier neck.

386 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:34:56pm

re: #381 Cognito

Groan...


Hi cog,
What? You didn't like it?
;)

387 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:35:09pm

re: #375 sattv4u2

sounds like my mother-in-law!

*snicker*

388 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:35:50pm

the Indian/hindu use of it had nothing to do with the german/nazi use of it

389 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:35:52pm

re: #375 sattv4u2

sounds like my mother-in-law!

A double headed dragon? Are you sure you are not talking about the double headed eagle that is the symbol of Imperial Russia? Like this one - Image: russia_eagle2.gif

390 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:09pm

re: #344 Intrepid

robert's response is quite literally that he's "still looking into the matter".

This is absurd, robert. After a year and all the evidence presented and you still need to look into it?! I'm not sure if there is anything more damaging to your credibility than that statement. I think reality is that you're still looking for a way to delay condemning the apologists you so love. Enjoy your fleas!

391 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:10pm

re: #352 galloping granny

What a story.

392 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:19pm

re: #383 MandyManners

Indian, the original Aryan.

And American Indian :)

393 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:23pm

re: #389 galloping granny

A double headed dragon? Are you sure you are not talking about the double headed eagle that is the symbol of Imperial Russia? Like this one - [Link: www.stanford.edu...]

nope. I know my mother-in-law!

394 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:32pm

re: #323 yochanan

i am anti commie as the next lizzard but i lost no sleep over the soviets raping the germans frankly they were the only ones who punished the germans and frankly i am grateful to them for that.

I was in Paderborn with a friend and we attended the mayor's birthday party at the town hall. Really strange, everybody could just walk in and get free food and beer so we got all kinds of twisted.
Some Schützen who were in the war were there and wanted to talk to the American. However they felt then they loved America now. One talked about how happy he was to be captured and sent to America (I think he was in Indiana) "we worked a little bit, played football a lot, and we didn't have to fight!" Another guy who spoke no english had his friend keep asking me about the Indians in Oregon, talking about Louis L'Amour, and his plans to get a winnebago and see the wild west.
Old guys retained some ceremonial guard status and the took their short mule kicking rifles (Steyr 95 like things) out once a year to do a wooden turkey shoot deal. I couldn't see wanting these guys punished.
My mother has a problem with Germans, extra odd since we are ancestrally all kinds of German. She says the WWII propaganda displayed the Japs as so over the top inhuman that knowing a few immediately undid it all. But Germans were portrayed as like you...but sneaky evil bastards. she still can't stand the accent.

395 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:38pm

re: #368 n in wi

I believe Palin has the best shot, but I think the smears will destroy her. I hope not though

396 Macker  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:36:39pm

re: #349 MandyManners

bean-dipped?

397 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:00pm

re: #376 NYCHardhat

Bean dipped?

Someone says something offensive/asks a question you don't wanna' answer and you say, "Oh, have you tried the bean dip?" at a party. It can also be, "Did you hear about WHATEVER?" or, "How 'bout those Broncos?"

398 outsidephilly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:15pm

re: #344 Intrepid

Would not the moral equivalence to their stance be this:

(not presented for the facts but for the example or however it's worded on Law and Order)

I oppose President Barack Obama's policies. I believe he needs to be voted out of office.

The Imperial Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan opposes President Barack Obama's policies. He believes Obama needs to be voted out of office.

The RNC opposes President Barack Obama's policies. They believe he needs to be voted out of office.

So we all join in a loose coalition to oppose President Barack Obama.

The RNC and I hate all that the KKK stands for, but we'll put up with them because they help our cause.

Isn't that the same thing Robert Spencer is promoting? Somebody tell me if I'm off base here.

Here I go again - Michelle Obama's choice to wear a black dress with a huge splash of red on election night was for what reason?

399 David Simon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:16pm

Interestingly enough, it was the Democrats who were in power and who knew what needed to be done during the World War II era. And a young Republican upstart, Wendell Wilkie, who wouldn't exploit the prevailing ideology - isolationism - in order to win the election. In other words, the Republican Wilkie put country first.

400 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:16pm

re: #372 yochanan

MY WIFE'S FAMILY WAS BUTCHERED BY THE GERMANS F''K UM THE WARMACK COMMITED THE SAME TYPES OF CRIMES AS THE SS AND FRANKLY I DON'T GIVE A DAMN IF YOU DING ME DOWN OR NOT

The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero.

401 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:25pm

robert is also defending corsi.

402 Luigi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:30pm

One more Roosevelt factoid. In his book Blacklisted By History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy, M. Stanton Evans discusses the presence of two highly placed advisers within the Japanese imperial government who helped sway Japan towards an attack on Pearl Harbor. Their names were Ozaki and Saionji. They were both Communist agents under employ of Moscow. While they were helping steering Japan towards conflict with America, certain Communist advisers within the American government close to Roosevelt were trying to steer America towards a path of conflict with Japan.

Evans says the purpose of their actions was to turn Japan away from attacking Russia in the rear. That would have been fatal as Russia was going to war with the Nazis. Evans tempers his remarks with caution, but Evans presents a set of facts which argue that our entire Pacific war was engineered in Moscow to protect Russia's rear.

403 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:32pm

re: #396 Macker

bean-dipped?

Mandy was at a Mexican restaurant

404 Sunlight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:37:39pm

re: #312 lifeofthemind

I know John Mearshiemer, I'll say he is a friend of mine, much as I disagree with his position on Israel and the Jews. Steve Walt was his co-author. Thanks for the heads up on the Pritzker outfit.
Linky: [Link: www.pritzkermilitarylibrary.org...]

I love that pritzker site. I listen to everything they put out. But I am very confused about the Pritzkers themselves.

405 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:38:11pm

re: #397 MandyManners

I like that. I find myself in sticky situations a few times a year. I'll have to remember that.

406 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:38:18pm

re: #394 spidly

I have lots of hot wheels, quite a collection, and not one porsche or mercedes.

407 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:38:45pm

Anyone thought that maybe Vlaams Belang are just preparing to put on a production of "The Producers"

don't be stupid, be a smarty!

408 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:38:56pm

re: #366 Irene NYC

We're not at war. Our existential existence is not yet threatened by Obama. We don't need to ally ourselves with the KKK or any other lynchers or killers.

You do the republicans a huge disservice with such an example.

Did you not read where I stated at the beginning that this was used as an example, and not for the fact of what I was saying? An example, a comparison.

I'm trying to get an idea of how Robert Spencer can ally himself with those who are neo-nazi sympathizers at best, actual neo-nazis at worst.

I don't know so much about the politics of Europe - so I thought of an example that would help me truly understand what is at stake here.

409 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:39:39pm

re: #407 spidly

Anyone thought that maybe Vlaams Belang are just preparing to put on a production of "The Producers"

don't be stupid, be a smarty!

You can see them doing "Springtime for Hitler".

410 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:39:40pm

re: #396 Macker

bean-dipped?

re: #403 sattv4u2

Mandy was at a Mexican restaurant. She stuck the ofeending guys head in a dish of Bean Dip!

411 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:40:04pm

re: #326 MandyManners

It's the old Joe English cross from Flanders fields. A modification of the standard Celtic cross as seen throughout europe.

Typically the Joe English version has letters on it however.

412 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:40:59pm

re: #378 galloping granny

By thousands of years. Used by both the Hindu and many American Indian groups. Tsarina Alexandra quite liked the swastika (it was a symbol of good luck about 1900) and many of her photo albums and diaries were decorated with it. And I happen to have more than a few postcards from the 1900 era that have swastikas in the corners.

I had a friend in college whose maternal grandmother had quite the collection of Indian swastikas. My friend's father was a Jew, and she had done some time on a kibutz, with plans to do the aliyah thing.

413 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:41:22pm

Complete off topic, don't know if it is a staged or not (I think it might be, She stops to soon).

How to Steal a Car with 3 Drink Cans

414 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:41:39pm

re: #357 The Other Les

Thank you.

415 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:41:57pm

re: #395 NYCHardhat

I believe Palin has the best shot, but I think the smears will destroy her. I hope not though

I think considering where the smears are coming from it will enhance her. I hope.

416 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:42:47pm

re: #392 galloping granny

And American Indian :)

I'm still trying to figure out how the two shared the same symbol while separated by thousands of miles. What answers do the archeologists have?

If I get to Heaven, that's one of the questions that will be answered for me.

417 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:42:48pm

re: #391 Ojoe

What a story.

It was quite something to hear those two old warriors who were once bitter enemies. It was funny - the first town I lived in in Germany was still full of Nazis, very anti-American. Old women still wearing widow's weeds from the war, one bar in town that an American could walk into and stand in for days yet no one would wait on them. The second place that I lived was mostly a new town, built almost entirely by people who had escaped from East Germany with only the clothes on their backs. They did not hate us there. And there were more than a few stories - the young man who had been forced to fight as an 11 year old with sticks against tanks, many more. My landlady had escaped from Dresden, where her aunt still lived. Finally when Tante Rosa got to be 70 she was allowed to leave East Germany and come to the West - that way the East Germans didn't have to support their old folks.

418 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:42:57pm

re: #401 Sharmuta

robert is also defending corsi.

And of course Jerome Corsi can't be a racist because he has best selling books.

Oh, brother.

419 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:43:16pm

re: #396 Macker

bean-dipped?

See No. 397.

420 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:01pm

re: #405 NYCHardhat

I like that. I find myself in sticky situations a few times a year. I'll have to remember that.

It's handy no matter where you go.

421 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:05pm

re: #416 MandyManners

I'm still trying to figure out how the two shared the same symbol while separated by thousands of miles. What answers do the archeologists have?

If I get to Heaven, that's one of the questions that will be answered for me.

space ships

422 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:07pm

re: #414 ArmyWife

Thank you.

You are welcome.

423 legalpad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:09pm

re: #323 yochanan

The next time somebody pisses me off, I guess I'll just rape their friends and relatives, maybe their neighbors. Then maybe anyone with a similar genetic code. That'll make the world right.///

424 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:20pm

re: #55 USBeast

Oh hell, I've been to gun shows where this kind of crap was present. I've also had to work with ignorant assholes who spouted this crap. Does this make me a racist? What does one have to do to avoid being tarred with that brush?

Holy S**t! I just remembered. I've read "Mein Kampf"...and the Qu'ran...and "The Communist Manifesto"...and Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book"! Does this make me a Nazi, Islamofascist, Commie Radical or just someone who likes to go to the source and ask the horse?

Trying to judge Europe using American standards is just silly.

What sort of standards would you propose using?

You ask, "What does one have to do to avoid being tarred with that [racist] brush?" Here's one suggestion: Next time you attend a gun show that supports the sale of Nazi propaganda, leave.

425 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:29pm

re: #415 n in wi

I hope you're right. Like everyone has said already, I was moved when she spoke. McCain was without fire and conviction.

426 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:44:59pm

re: #398 outsidephilly

Here I go again - Michelle Obama's choice to wear a black dress with a huge splash of red on election night was for what reason?

Hell, I don't know? She thought it looked good?

How is that even germane? I don't care what Michelle Obama wore (obviously, she didn't either, heh) but is the analogy correct? Close?

427 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:45:04pm

re: #408 Intrepid

Did you not read where I stated at the beginning that this was used as an example, and not for the fact of what I was saying? An example, a comparison.

I'm trying to get an idea of how Robert Spencer can ally himself with those who are neo-nazi sympathizers at best, actual neo-nazis at worst.

I don't know so much about the politics of Europe - so I thought of an example that would help me truly understand what is at stake here.

What you wrote was ambiguous - at least to me. Apologies for any misunderstanding on my part.

Would not the moral equivalence to their stance be this:

(not presented for the facts but for the example or however it's worded on Law and Order)
...
Isn't that the same thing Robert Spencer is promoting? Somebody tell me if I'm off base here.

428 tradewind  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:45:19pm

re: #398 outsidephilly
Whatever her choice, she really knows how to ruin a look: here is the Narciso Rodriguez dress she wore. ...but she killed it with a cardigan... see original dress, here...
Image: PH2008110701024.jpg
... and Michelle's take on it, here...
Image: PH2008110701029.jpg
(re-sheathing claws for the night)

429 Jim D  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:45:28pm

Totally starving for some bean dip now.

430 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:45:47pm

Now where have I seen that symbol hanging on the wall before?

431 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:45:54pm

re: #401 Sharmuta

robert is also defending corsi.

Corsi - the troofer? WTF?

432 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:46:13pm

re: #408 Intrepid

I'm trying to get an idea of how Robert Spencer can ally himself with those who are neo-nazi sympathizers at best, actual neo-nazis at worst.


I think it has to do with his support for the Serbs: Robert Spencer’s Connections: The James Jatras File. Although his writtings are pretty clean he has some unsavory radical connections of his own. I've notice a lot of the VB supporters tend to think that maybe more extreme measures are needed and that groups like VB or the BNP should be considered as valid allies.

433 outsidephilly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:46:21pm

re: #417 galloping granny

It was quite something to hear those two old warriors who were once bitter enemies. It was funny - the first town I lived in in Germany was still full of Nazis, very anti-American. Old women still wearing widow's weeds from the war, one bar in town that an American could walk into and stand in for days yet no one would wait on them. The second place that I lived was mostly a new town, built almost entirely by people who had escaped from East Germany with only the clothes on their backs. They did not hate us there. And there were more than a few stories - the young man who had been forced to fight as an 11 year old with sticks against tanks, many more. My landlady had escaped from Dresden, where her aunt still lived. Finally when Tante Rosa got to be 70 she was allowed to leave East Germany and come to the West - that way the East Germans didn't have to support their old folks.

Such a time, I can not imagine . . . , such images/memories, I can not hardly understand, yet, you were there . . . , I'm lost for words . . .

434 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:46:40pm

re: #413 jcm

Yeah, I saw that earlier. I think it's staged.

435 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:47:21pm

re: #421 sattv4u2

space ships

Makes sense.

436 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:47:23pm

re: #423 legalpad

The next time somebody pisses me off, I guess I'll just rape their friends and relatives, maybe their neighbors. Then maybe anyone with a similar genetic code. That'll make the world right.///

Being all kinds of German and Jewish, I'll rape myself. I've got some other parts of me that are bitter rivals so I'll pay myself reparations. Spanish English Welsh Scot...got me a world war in my genetic code.

437 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:47:27pm

re: #360 jcm

Gak!

re: #385 MandyManners

Double-headed. Skinnier neck.

Hrrmm.. There are also neo fascist elements in eastern Europe who are adopting old Russian Imperialist icons, Like the two headed raven...

438 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:47:29pm

re: #416 MandyManners

I'm still trying to figure out how the two shared the same symbol while separated by thousands of miles. What answers do the archeologists have?

If I get to Heaven, that's one of the questions that will be answered for me.

I don't think that they do. It is an ancient sun symbol. Used by other cultures too as I recall.

439 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:47:41pm

re: #431 Intrepid

Corsi - the troofer? WTF?

Yep- corsi, the guest of political cesspool, the neo-nazi radio show.

440 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:47:47pm

re: #425 NYCHardhat

I hope you're right. Like everyone has said already, I was moved when she spoke. McCain was without fire and conviction.

I like her ability to speak over the media and to the people. A must for any Conservative. Remind you of anyone?

441 right_on_target  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:48:23pm

re: #417 galloping granny

It was quite something to hear those two old warriors who were once bitter enemies. It was funny - the first town I lived in in Germany was still full of Nazis, very anti-American. Old women still wearing widow's weeds from the war, one bar in town that an American could walk into and stand in for days yet no one would wait on them. The second place that I lived was mostly a new town, built almost entirely by people who had escaped from East Germany with only the clothes on their backs. They did not hate us there. And there were more than a few stories - the young man who had been forced to fight as an 11 year old with sticks against tanks, many more. My landlady had escaped from Dresden, where her aunt still lived. Finally when Tante Rosa got to be 70 she was allowed to leave East Germany and come to the West - that way the East Germans didn't have to support their old folks.


___
Very true, think about socialized health plans in the future for the USA.
Will our seniors' medical care in the future be rationed? Another country that used to be that way was communist Rumania, where old people were neglected to save money and resources.

442 outsidephilly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:48:23pm

re: #426 Intrepid

Hell, I don't know? She thought it looked good?

How is that even germane? I don't care what Michelle Obama wore (obviously, she didn't either, heh) but is the analogy correct? Close?

I'm still thinking she was making a statement . . . , and boldly not an American statement

443 Sunlight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:48:27pm

I'm missing Babbazee tonight.

444 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:48:28pm

re: #413 jcm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I saw that earlier. I think it's staged.

Definitly staged. The cans barely move, not enough that she could have heard them AND associated it with something "wrong" with her car AND stopping that quick.

445 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:48:51pm

re: #440 n in wi

Bush? Just kidding. She reminds me of Reagan. I may be totally off my rocker. Whack me if I am.

446 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:49:17pm

re: #417 galloping granny

My Latin teacher in high school, Mr. Hann, had been drafted to drive panzers as a teenager. He could tell stories. He was good at teaching Caeser's Gallic War. I never asked him how he got to the USA. Now I would. BUt I don't know where he is.

447 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:49:44pm

re: #353 MandyManners

No. See my No. 350.

I'm frustrated that I don't know how to paint the picture of what I saw.

Mandy, I think you painted a very vivid image based on what the jerk said.

448 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:49:50pm

re: #429 Jim D

Totally starving for some bean dip now.

Ingredients
6 slices bacon
3/4 cup onion, finely chopped
1 tbl. garlic, finely chopped
1/2 tbls. chili powder
1/2 tbls. cumin
1 can cannellini beans, rinsed and drained
1/2 cup grated Monterey Jack cheese
1/4 cup sour cream or plain yogurt
1 tbls. lemon juice
Cayenne, to taste
Salt and Pepper to taste

Directions
In skillet, cook bacon until crisp
Transfer to paper towels and pour off all but 2 tablespoons fat
Cook onion and garlic with salt and pepper to taste until tender
Add chili powder and cumin and cook for a minute
Add beans and cook, stirring, 5 minutes
In food processor, puree bean mixture with all remaining ingredients except bacon until smooth
Crumble bacon and stir into dip
Refrigerate
Serve at room temperature

[Link: www.grouprecipes.com...]

449 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:49:53pm

re: #436 spidly

Being all kinds of German and Jewish, I'll rape myself. I've got some other parts of me that are bitter rivals so I'll pay myself reparations. Spanish English Welsh Scot...got me a world war in my genetic code.

For a while, I worked with a co-op who was half Armenian and half Turkish.
(On Halloween, a long time ago, he dressed as a terrorist, with fatigues, a bloody bandage, and a toy gun. Can't get away with that now.)

450 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:49:53pm

re: #372 yochanan

My grandmother was held in a concentration camp, she was pregnant. My grandfather rescued her, along with my aunt who was 2. My grandfather married my grandmother, adopted my aunt and my mother. My grandmother won't talk about this time. She just won't. I understand why.

I was also raped at 16. I am 37. I still don't talk about it in detail. It's a pain unimaginable and part of you dies forever. I hope you consider this as part of your justification process.

451 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:49:55pm

re: #428 tradewind

Whatever her choice, she really knows how to ruin a look: here is the Narciso Rodriguez dress she wore. ...but she killed it with a cardigan... see original dress, here...
[Link: media3.washingtonpost.com...]
... and Michelle's take on it, here...
[Link: media3.washingtonpost.com...]
(re-sheathing claws for the night)

I wouldn't exactly say she "ruined" it with a cardigan. It would take one whole hell of a lot to ruin that abomination any further.

452 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:50:13pm

OT

What's happening in Minnesota? part 3

Coleman for Senate campaign manager Cullen Sheehan released the following statement today after it the perceived efforts of the Franken campaign and outside groups attempt improperly to influence canvassing process. The statement alludes to a "legal proceeding" of which I am not aware:

"Not content to allow the recount process to move forward as prescribed by law, the Franken Campaign and its supporters are attempting a campaign of undue influence. The increasing questions about unexplained and improbable shifts in vote counts, coupled with Franken Campaign antics over the past 24 hours, compelled us to seek legal action to protect the rights of Minnesota voters. We had an election. Senator Coleman won. And we now must have a legal and transparent process conducted in the light of day - and that is our goal and intent.

"Late last night, after another unexplained shift in votes occurred when the Secretary of State's Office closed, new ballots have suddenly appeared from a heavily Democratic precinct. These ballots have been unsecure since the election, yet the Franken Campaign is demanding they be stuffed into the ballot box, attempting to change a vote count that was already finished. Minnesota election laws provide specific rules for reviewing and counting ballots. Today's legal proceeding is an effort to ensure that a transparent and orderly process be in place. The Franken Campaign should be joining us in this action, not seeking to push the process outside the bounds of the law."

As I wrote this morning, the election seems to be in the process of being stolen.

UPDATE: News of the legal proceeding Senator Coleman brought with respect to the mysterious appearance of 32 absentee ballots and likely Franken votes in Hennepin County is reported in this post at Sweetness and Light.

JOHN adds: To help prevent the election from being stolen, if possible, please go here to contribute to the NRSC's effort to assure a legal recount process.

Hello, everyone.

453 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:50:37pm

re: #289 Athos

Two more factors were the enormous amount of real estate the Russians had to play with, and the ally they called "General Winter." The Germans were in no way prepared for Russian winter, and the OKW had no idea of the logistics disaster they had. Kinda hard to drive a tank when the oil in the engine block is frozen.

The Soviets never fully trusted the East German government -- they kept a very tight rein on the DDR. It got to the point where the Group of Soviet Forces Germany brought in Russian prostitutes so their soldiers wouldn't fraternize with the locals.

454 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:50:44pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

Yep- corsi, the guest of political cesspool, the neo-nazi radio show.

Further justification, in any more were needed, for Charles consigning Corsi's stories to the waste bin.

455 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:50:48pm

re: #448 MandyManners

You're kidding me! I need to try this.

456 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:51:14pm

re: #437 Thanos

Hrrmm.. There are also neo fascist elements in eastern Europe who are adopting old Russian Imperialist icons, Like the two headed raven...

His father's comments today about "darkies" really pissed me off: both blonde with green eyes.

457 Gitarzan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:51:16pm

re: #402 Luigi

One more Roosevelt factoid. In his book Blacklisted By History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy, M. Stanton Evans discusses the presence of two highly placed advisers within the Japanese imperial government who helped sway Japan towards an attack on Pearl Harbor. Their names were Ozaki and Saionji. They were both Communist agents under employ of Moscow. While they were helping steering Japan towards conflict with America, certain Communist advisers within the American government close to Roosevelt were trying to steer America towards a path of conflict with Japan.

Evans says the purpose of their actions was to turn Japan away from attacking Russia in the rear. That would have been fatal as Russia was going to war with the Nazis. Evans tempers his remarks with caution, but Evans presents a set of facts which argue that our entire Pacific war was engineered in Moscow to protect Russia's rear.

Why am I not surprised and why does this sound plausible, given Russian/Soviet history?

458 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:51:44pm

re: #438 galloping granny

I don't think that they do. It is an ancient sun symbol. Used by other cultures too as I recall.

Just another mystery.

459 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:51:53pm

re: #436 spidly

Being all kinds of German and Jewish, I'll rape myself. I've got some other parts of me that are bitter rivals so I'll pay myself reparations. Spanish English Welsh Scot...got me a world war in my genetic code.

Rape yourself,then pay yourself reparations,hee,hee. I think that is only legal in San Francisco or Holland.

460 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:52:06pm

re: #452 Noam Sayin'

How is it that EVERY "missing" vote that has been discovered since the official tally was announced (with Coleman up by 700 + votes) just HAPPENS to be a Dem vote, knocking the lead down to 250 +/- votes !?!?!?!?!

461 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:52:06pm

re: #416 MandyManners

Archetypal images.

462 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:52:25pm

An email from a frequent LGF commenter:

I emailed Robert Spencer on my own, asking him if he had any intention of looking into the European nationalist political parties that seem to display a great deal of racism. Here was his reply to me...

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to
investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud
them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not
implied."

463 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:52:56pm

re: #460 sattv4u2
That would be Lady Luck smiling on Smiley.
;)

464 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:53:09pm

re: #451 galloping granny

You are on fire.

465 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:53:54pm

re: #444 sattv4u2

re: #434 Killgore Trout

Definitly staged. The cans barely move, not enough that she could have heard them AND associated it with something "wrong" with her car AND stopping that quick.

I had driving job, one day the gave me a new pager. I'm driving along and suddenly there's the sudden weird vibration in my truck. Then it goes away, WTF I listen, and boom there it is again then it goes away. I pull thinking somethings up with the transmission, I'm laying on the ground and feel the vibration again, the new pager had vibrate mode.

466 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:54:09pm

re: #460 sattv4u2

Florida recount? Democrats?

467 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:54:13pm

re: #462 Charles

In other words

"In that I am a frequent railway rider, Mousillini did a GREAT job getting the trains to run on time. Anything else he may or may not have done is none of my business"

468 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:54:27pm

re: #445 NYCHardhat

Bush? Just kidding. She reminds me of Reagan. I may be totally off my rocker. Whack me if I am.

My thoughts as well. You think Jeb Bush would stand a chance?With out changing his last name that is.

469 Jim D  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:54:29pm

re: #448 MandyManners

Whoa. I'm going to have me some beans.
Thanks!

470 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:04pm

re: #446 Ojoe

My Latin teacher in high school, Mr. Hann, had been drafted to drive panzers as a teenager. He could tell stories. He was good at teaching Caeser's Gallic War. I never asked him how he got to the USA. Now I would. BUt I don't know where he is.

I think about all those stories I should have asked for in past years every now and then. Now when I get the chance I get them on tape.

471 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:05pm

re: #468 n in wi

Only if we have a complete turnover in the media.

472 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:10pm

re: #468 n in wi

He'd have to change his entire name.

473 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:15pm

re: #447 Daisy

Mandy, I think you painted a very vivid image based on what the jerk said.

Yep. I'm sure of it now. I was pretty sure when I started posting about it but, articulating it to others somehow makes it more real. (Does that make sense?) I've encountered all kinds of shit all over this nation but, I didn't expectg it at the local park, where kids of all skin tones play together.

474 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:30pm

re: #452 Noam Sayin'

They "found" those 32 absentee ballots in the election supervisor's car last night.

/like I said earlier, keep counting until you find the right number, it's the Bonkey way

475 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:36pm

I've been away. Has this one been covered?

Lining Up to Chat

Word has gotten around that Barack Obama is willing to sit down with our enemies; the latest to volunteer for a chat is Hamas:

Khaled Mashaal said that Hamas is ready for dialogue with Obama and his new administration "on the basis that the American administration respects our rights and our options."

"Our options?" I assume that means Hamas's "option" to continue carrying out terrorist attacks.

"The American administration, if they want to deal with the region, Palestine and the Arab-Israeli conflict, they have no other option than deal with Hamas because we are a real force on the ground, effective," Mashaal told Sky News from Damascus, Syria.

The exiled militant leader said that the election of a U.S. president with African roots was "a big change--political and psychological" and congratulated him on his victory.

Hamas initially endorsed Obama's candidacy for President, but then withdrew its endorsement when Obama made a pro-Israel statement. It appears, though, that the old excitement is back. A "big change" in America's attitude toward terrorist groups is just what Hamas has been waiting for.

476 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:55:46pm

re: #462 Charles

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to
investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud
them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not
implied
I am looking the other way."

477 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:56:17pm

re: #474 Killian Bundy

in the car. Well lookie here! I've found 8,000,000,000,000,000,000 votes for John McCain in my trunk! How could that happen?!? Quick! Call Barry!

478 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:56:25pm

I wanna' keep racial shit out of the public park!

479 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:56:27pm

re: #427 Irene NYC

I was trying to find out if those who so strongly oppose islamofacism in Europe are willing to align themselves with those who espouse antisemitism.

If they are willing to join up with neo-nazis in order to make their case against Muslims, then they are dancing with the devil. And they negate any form of righteousness in their actions or point of view by doing so.

That's all I meant, that's all I was wondering.

:-)

480 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:56:53pm

re: #455 NYCHardhat

You're kidding me! I need to try this.

No, I'm not. Yes, you should.

481 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:57:06pm

re: #462 Charles

An email from a frequent LGF commenter:

The friends of my enemies are my friends. Bad thinking.

482 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:57:18pm

re: #461 Daisy

Archetypal images.

I love mysteries!

483 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:57:18pm

re: #474 Killian Bundy

I think the FBI needs to get involved in the recount about now. There's been too much hinky stuff going on since Wednesday morning.

484 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:57:32pm

re: #462 Charles

That's quite different than what he posted on his own site. He quite literally said, "I am still looking into the matter". That's a direct quote.

Gee- I *wonder* why he'd have two different messages. Why not tell his own readers he doesn't care?

485 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:57:49pm

re: #460 sattv4u2

How is it that EVERY "missing" vote that has been discovered since the official tally was announced (with Coleman up by 700 + votes) just HAPPENS to be a Dem vote, knocking the lead down to 250 +/- votes !?!?!?!?!


One tape from an electronic voting machine had a Nov. 2 date on it.

486 David Simon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:57:49pm

War Stories is up next. The battle for Afghanistan.

487 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:58:34pm

re: #462 Charles

An email from a frequent LGF commenter:

I emailed Robert Spencer on my own, asking him if he had any intention of looking into the European nationalist political parties that seem to display a great deal of racism. Here was his reply to me...

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to
investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud
them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not
implied."

Huh? What does that mean, exactly?

488 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:58:35pm

re: #462 Charles

It's well known that Hitler did good work with having pets spayed and neutered. So, you know. Let's don't get hung up on him "doing anything else."

489 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:58:59pm

re: #469 Jim D

Whoa. I'm going to have me some beans.
Thanks!

Be my guest!

490 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:59:05pm

re: #478 MandyManners

Yeah, I don't like when perfect strangers talk to me about politics let alone racial shit. It gives me acid reflux and want to vomit.

491 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:59:07pm

re: #487 MandyManners

It means robert is a liar.

492 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:59:17pm

re: #462 Charles

An email from a frequent LGF commenter:

The sooner one walks away from those diving into the NeoNS sinkhole, the better.

493 Athos  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:59:38pm

re: #462 Charles

Sorry, but that is moral and intellectual cowardice in my book - the enemy of my enemy is my friend excuse. As Sharmuta says, I hope he enjoys the fleas. After all, I am certain that all will know that Spencer's position is based strictly on his opposition to jihad...and none of these organizations will point to his unwillingness to condemn them as proof that they are respectable.

494 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 5:59:52pm

re: #306 Joo-LiZ

What kind of fire-fighting system was that?!

A decaying one. The Russian navy is a very sad remnant of the Soviet navy, and most of their ships are rusting in harbor.

According to Strategypage, they haven't had adequate money for training and maintenance since the fall of the Soviet Union, and they're only now starting to rebuild.

495 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:24pm

re: #483 Noam Sayin'

I think the FBI needs to get involved in the recount about now. There's been too much hinky stuff going on since Wednesday morning.

I'm not at all sure that the FBI has any authority when it comes to a recount. How the election is handled within a given state is up to the state.

496 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:28pm

re: #482 MandyManners

I love mysteries!

Me? I'm a true blue devotee of Agatha Christie - and archetypes too :)

497 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:33pm

re: #493 Athos

that is moral and intellectual cowardice in my book

Exactly.

498 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:34pm

re: #479 Intrepid

I think a lot depends on circumstances: is the danger imminent, is it a matter of life and death? Different circumstances beget different reactions. Choice is between something bad and something worse, otherwise it's not a choice it's just a preference, if you catch my drift.

I've known plenty of people who had to make common cause with people that they loathed but the alternative was even worse - and yes, their lives were at stake.

499 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:43pm

re: #488 Cognito

It's well known that Hitler did good work with having pets spayed and neutered. So, you know. Let's don't get hung up on him "doing anything else."


Bob Barker=Hitler?

500 Pete-billy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:59pm

i love this blog!

501 right_on_target  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:00:59pm

re: #494 Steffan

A decaying one. The Russian navy is a very sad remnant of the Soviet navy, and most of their ships are rusting in harbor.

According to Strategypage, they haven't had adequate money for training and maintenance since the fall of the Soviet Union, and they're only now starting to rebuild.


___
But they ARE rebuilding. What will Obama do?

502 Ojoe  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:01:08pm

BBL

503 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:01:22pm

re: #490 NYCHardhat

Yeah, I don't like when perfect strangers talk to me about politics let alone racial shit. It gives me acid reflux and want to vomit.

The thing is, we're not perfect strangers. Our kids play together but, we don't always sit together but, we sometimes do.

504 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:01:23pm

re: #499 n in wi

Bob Barker=Hitler?

I never did trust that weird microphone.

505 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:01:38pm

re: #504 Cognito

Are you on crack tonight?

506 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:01:58pm

re: #500 Pete-billy

i love this blog!

thats great,,, but can you bring a tad more to the table than that !?!?!?!?!

507 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:06pm

re: #491 Sharmuta

It means robert is a liar.

Nooo. Really?

508 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:07pm

re: #495 galloping granny

There ya' go again. Knowin' stuff.

509 Sunlight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:09pm

re: #477 ArmyWife

in the car. Well lookie here! I've found 8,000,000,000,000,000,000 votes for John McCain in my trunk! How could that happen?!? Quick! Call Barry!

In the '04 election, a DNC person showed up during our state's tortured ballot counting and *presto!* found a couple of more boxes of "uncounted" ballots that made us a blue in a sea of red. This time I think it was blue from the start, but lots of comments in the voting lines wondering if the fix was in.

510 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:10pm

re: #474 Killian Bundy

They "found" those 32 absentee ballots in the election supervisor's car last night.

/like I said earlier, keep counting until you find the right number, it's the Bonkey way

I forgot yesterday's so here it goes:

Stuart Smalley's Daily Affirmations for the Inner Communist

Friday:

"When I rob a bank for the cause, I will not be playing those parent tapes in my head: "You wield a revolver like a girl" . . . "Why can't you be more like Stalin?" . . . "Philosophy? What kind of major is that? It's useless!"

Saturday:

"Just because I execute Christians and counter-revolutionaries does not mean I'm an mass-murdering psychopath like my father."

511 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:25pm

re: #505 Sharmuta

Are you on crack tonight?

why limit it ?

512 Irene NYC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:02:31pm

re: #488 Cognito

It's well known that Hitler did good work with having pets spayed and neutered. So, you know. Let's don't get hung up on him "doing anything else."


Well, cog, that "hung up" bit was certainly in poor taste. Ahem.
;)

513 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:08pm

re: #507 MandyManners

"I am still looking into the matter"

-Robert Spencer

514 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:13pm

re: #505 Sharmuta

Are you on crack tonight?

Ah, it's a joke, Sharmuta.

Just so we're clear: No, I don't think Bob Barker's microphone was an implement of Nazism.

Pat Sajak, however, may or may not have burned witches at the stake. Possibly.

515 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:23pm

re: #496 Daisy

Me? I'm a true blue devotee of Agatha Christie - and archetypes too :)

The Acorn* catalogue this Christmas has an awesome deal on the Poirot series.

*Not ACORN.

516 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:30pm

More pictures of flags

This one is a combination of many flags.

517 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:35pm

anybody seen RocknRolla? I get to pick tonight's movie. this looks to be about the only one I might like. Lock stock and two smoking barrels-esque, correct? snatch felt like a cheap asian knockoff of lock, stock... is this the same?

tomorrow I have to go see the changeling and I'm pretty sure that'll be as fun as waxing one's hodensack.

518 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:48pm

re: #514 Cognito

You should really quit while you're behind.

519 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:03:49pm

re: #508 Noam Sayin'

There ya' go again. Knowin' stuff.

Ah, I don't know that much anymore. You should see what I've forgotten :(

520 NYCHardhat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:04:03pm

re: #503 MandyManners

Oh boy, thats uncomfortable. I think you know what you have to do.

521 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:04:36pm

re: #499 n in wi

Bob Barker=Hitler?

Oh, goodness. I'll just stop. Too rich. Oh, goodness.

522 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:04:40pm

re: #518 Sharmuta

tnx

523 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:05:10pm

re: #514 Cognito

re: #518 Sharmuta

You should really quit while you're behind.

pass on a lesson I learned decades ago

When you're in a hole,, stop diggin"

524 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:05:12pm

re: #488 Cognito

It's well known that Hitler did good work with having pets spayed and neutered. So, you know. Let's don't get hung up on him "doing anything else."

He was a Vegan before Veganism became popular on the Left Coast.

525 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:05:21pm

re: #522 Cognito

tnx

Hey Cog. Long time no chat. How's things?

526 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:05:49pm

re: #524 The Other Les

He was a Vegan before Veganism became popular on the Left Coast.

Does that mean that all vegans are Hitlerites?

527 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:19pm

re: #513 Sharmuta

"I am still looking into the matter"

-Robert Spencer

Has O.J. found the real killers yet?

528 Sunlight  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:21pm

re: #500 Pete-billy

i love this blog!

If you weren't around last year when this stuff first happened, go back and read the threads - it turned out that a lot of the people we're talking about (and some other interesting types) were commenters here... it all blew up and we were enlightened.

529 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:22pm

re: #448 MandyManners

Oooh, hearted that one. Thanks! :-)

530 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:32pm

re: #525 galloping granny

Hey Cog. Long time no chat. How's things?

Things are rough all over, Gallopy. But hey, this is America -- we keep moving forward.

How about you?

531 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:37pm

Don't worry- it's just a halloween costume

//

532 outsidephilly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:40pm

re: #514 Cognito

Ah, it's a joke, Sharmuta.

Just so we're clear: No, I don't think Bob Barker's microphone was an implement of Nazism.

Pat Sajak, however, may or may not have burned witches at the stake. Possibly.

I thought Bob Newhart did that

533 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:45pm

re: #514 Cognito

Cog, it seems like I am doing lots of your journalistic investigation FOR you. It was NOT Pat Sajak that burned witches. It was Pat Morita.

/no idea why his name just popped into my head.

534 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:06:57pm

re: #504 Cognito

I never did trust that weird microphone.

Heinrich Himmler, come on down your the next contestant on the Price is Reich

535 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:01pm

re: #495 galloping granny

I'm not at all sure that the FBI has any authority when it comes to a recount. How the election is handled within a given state is up to the state.

I don't recall off the tip of my head who the attorney general is in Minnesota right now but he's usually a Democrat.

536 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:17pm

re: #527 MandyManners

Has O.J. found the real killers yet?

He'll have better luck real soon. He's about to be sent to Big Boy Prison where lots aned lots of em are

537 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:27pm

re: #530 Cognito

Things are rough all over, Gallopy. But hey, this is America -- we keep moving forward.

How about you?

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

538 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:29pm

re: #487 MandyManners

Huh? What does that mean, exactly?

That means that he'll embrace anyone who hates Muslims. If they also hate Jews or blacks he absolves himself of any guilt. It's a morally bankrupt position.

539 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:38pm

re: #534 n in wi

Price is Reich

Ha! That caught me off guard.

540 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:39pm

re: #531 gman

Don't worry- it's just a halloween costume

//

You know- I really need to just look into the matter some more...

541 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:07:45pm

re: #416 MandyManners


I'm still trying to figure out how the two shared the same symbol while separated by thousands of miles. What answers do the archeologists have?

How I've heard it explained is that it's a very simple symbol, independently conceived by separated cultures much like the circle or triangle.

542 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:08:03pm

re: #537 galloping granny

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

Quickly.

543 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:08:14pm

re: #527 MandyManners

Has O.J. found the real killers yet?

Every time he shaves.
/

544 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:08:18pm

re: #499 n in wi

Bob Barker=Hitler?

I've always thought that Bob Barker was an asshole but I wouldn't call him a Hitler.

545 Rancher  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:08:30pm

My alma mater New Mexico State University calls it's yearbook The Swastika. re: #412 MandyManners

My alma mater New Mexico State University calls it's yearbook The Swastika.

546 WrathofG-d  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:08:31pm
547 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:08:39pm

re: #537 galloping granny

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

ahh ,, interesting hobby. and here I am, a stamp collector

548 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:11pm

re: #520 NYCHardhat

Oh boy, thats uncomfortable. I think you know what you have to do.

And, it fucking sucks. I can take him to the public park in the section of town dominated by Section 8 housing, and hope that he doesn't get the shit beaten out of him for various/obvious reasons.

549 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:13pm

re: #516 gman

Nice White Power cross in the middle of the first pic.

550 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:30pm

re: #535 The Other Les

I don't recall off the tip of my head who the attorney general is in Minnesota right now but he's usually a Democrat.

But is he honest? An honest attorney general will crack down on Franken's games. If he won't, DoJ should step in. The Dems cannot be allowed to steal a Senate seat.

551 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:41pm

re: #537 galloping granny

is it a diaper diaper? Or the actually doggy kind from Petsmart?

552 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:49pm

re: #537 galloping granny

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

I suggest carefully.

553 MandyManners  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:56pm

bbiab

554 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:09:59pm

re: #542 Cognito

Quickly.

The poor little thing wags her beautiful tail and waves pee everywhere. She is a victim of the Chinese dog food incident. Kidney problems, frequent UTIs. Too sweet though. How can you hate a doggie that kisses you and climbs on your lap for a hug like a baby?

555 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:10:04pm

re: #544 The Other Les

I've always thought that Bob Barker was an asshole but I wouldn't call him a Hitler.

Ha, no one is -- it just started with a bit of sarcasm about Hitler and his devotion to the spaying of pets. Ergo allowing us to over look his other activities.

556 jacksontn  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:10:04pm

re: #483 Noam Sayin'

I think the FBI needs to get involved in the recount about now. There's been too much hinky stuff going on since Wednesday morning.

There has been election fraud going on since the primaries and further back to every election in which Obama won ...this was not Obama/Axelrod Chicago Thug first election rodeo ...so to the person here who says Obama won the election "fair and square" ...this is just more evidence that he did not ...but it does not matter ...he was the "Chosen One" ...

557 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:10:08pm

re: #514 Cognito

Ah, it's a joke, Sharmuta.

Just so we're clear: No, I don't think Bob Barker's microphone was an implement of Nazism.

Pat Sajak, however, may or may not have burned witches at the stake. Possibly.


George Soros wants to buy an O

558 USBeast  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:10:44pm

re: #424 Daisy

What sort of standards would you propose using?

You ask, "What does one have to do to avoid being tarred with that [racist] brush?" Here's one suggestion: Next time you attend a gun show that supports the sale of Nazi propaganda, leave.

Leave? Do you mean "run away"? How about stay and sneer on my way past the booth and resume my search for a reasonably priced .45? Being in the presence of evil does is not the same as condoning it. Nor is stopping and asking questions about it. Are we now to be required to physically assault or run away from everyone we find morally and politically objectionable? If so, are there enough caves in which the morally and politically pure can hide?

My point, yet again, is that, before this cultural war (and yes, that is what it is) is over, no one is going to have clean hands.

559 Gitarzan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:10:45pm

re: #462 Charles

An email from a frequent LGF commenter:

The old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend, never mind that he has more baggage than Amtrak" canard is being played by Mr. Spencer...what a shortsighted, narrow-minded d**khead.

/No fascists in MY foxhole!

560 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:11:07pm

re: #526 galloping granny

Does that mean that all vegans are Hitlerites?

No. But I do think Veganism is a bit silly.

561 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:11:26pm

re: #462 Charles

An email from a frequent LGF commenter:

In other words - "As long as they're doing what I feel is important, then I won't look behind the curtain to glimpse at what they're doing in other areas."

Good gravy. He's like Neville Chamberlain.

562 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:11:29pm

re: #483 Noam Sayin'

I think the FBI needs to get involved in the recount about now. There's been too much hinky stuff going on since Wednesday morning.

Hey, MN SoS ACORN Mark has taken down the results for the Senate Race. Now, you can't even see how many more votes they currently have left to steal for Franken.

/last I saw was 221, but who knows whether that includes the "new 32" or not

563 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:11:47pm

if you were in the S.S. YOU WERE A WAR CRIMINAL. AND SHOULD HAVE SPENT THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IN JAIL. and the regular german army were almost as guilty of genicide. frankly i find it rather funny about complaining about euro neo nazi's who's grand parents did the crime but giving the ones who commited the mass murder the FREE PASS because we needed them to fight the cold war.

a few houndred were put on trial when in fact the holocoust was commited by millions. the nurenberg show trials were just that show trials even as we did that we were taking in nazi rocket scientists and others frankly the crimes that the german people did in world war two the very idea of a country called germany should not even exist at all.

564 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:11:55pm

re: #515 MandyManners

The Acorn* catalogue this Christmas has an awesome deal on the Poirot series.

*Not ACORN.

Thanks for the info. Any catalog that features A. Christie is one I'm happy to kow about. This summer, at our local library fair, I bought a seriously heavy old book, a compilation of Hercule Poirot mysteries ($1.00!) You know I've found excuses not to finish the last 2 stories - don't want it to end. I'm usually reading something dense and intense in between H. Poirot, so it's a good balance.

565 callahan23  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:12:09pm

re: #546 WrathofG-d

N E V E R - A G A I N

Excellent choice of song!
Bought it long ago - so to the point.
Goose bumps big time to the point of tears flowing.
Thanks a million.

566 outsidephilly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:12:15pm

bbl

567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:12:19pm

re: #560 The Other Les

Really? Why?

568 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:12:48pm

re: #551 ArmyWife

is it a diaper diaper? Or the actually doggy kind from Petsmart?

The doggy kind from Petsmart. She's a big doggie. I did consider getting toddler disposables and cutting a hole for the tail . . .

569 Cognito  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:13:07pm

re: #554 galloping granny

The poor little thing wags her beautiful tail and waves pee everywhere. She is a victim of the Chinese dog food incident. Kidney problems, frequent UTIs. Too sweet though. How can you hate a doggie that kisses you and climbs on your lap for a hug like a baby?

You should package each of those diapers, afterward, and send them to the president of the Chinese company that made that poisoned food.

570 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:14:11pm

re: #550 Dark_Falcon

But is he honest? An honest attorney general will crack down on Franken's games. If he won't, DoJ should step in. The Dems cannot be allowed to steal a Senate seat.

Honest Democrats tend to go GOP at some point.

571 slokat  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:14:23pm

re: #389 galloping granny

another example at this site Alkota - Mandy's description made me think it as first choice

572 Killian Bundy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:14:25pm

re: #537 galloping granny

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

/you're going to have to cut a slit for the tail

573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:14:37pm

re: #569 Cognito

I wish "interesting times" upon them.

574 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:14:48pm

It's also fascinating that robert is so concerned with fighting jihad that he'd spend the better part of a couple of days posting comments on his own blog railing against Charles and reading up on Killgore here at LGF.

575 ArmyWife  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:15:04pm

re: #568 galloping granny

What a good person you are! I wonder of the people ones would work if you put them on backwards (so the velcro tape things are on her back. I be not matter what, it would be hard. I have an 80 pound German Shepherd, I can just imagine what you are going through.

576 SteveC  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:15:10pm

re: #527 MandyManners

Has O.J. found the real killers yet?

Don't think so, but not for lack of trying. He searches every golf course he sees for evidence!

/Thank you, I'll be here all week!

577 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:15:24pm

re: #516 gman

More pictures of flags

This one is a combination of many flags.


The three flags in the middle are from St Maartensfonds, the annual gathering to commemorate the Belgian SS division. That stopped in 2006, the symbol on them is the Berkenkruis (which will get you to some rancid sites if you google it..) It's also the symbol of the SS division, and the name of the magazine used to raise funds for Nazi expatriates in S. America and elsewhere.

578 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:15:25pm

The photos were from a Taal Aktie archive but notice how the groups mix with one another

579 jcm  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:15:53pm

re: #487 MandyManners

I emailed Robert Spencer on my own, asking him if he had any intention of looking into the European nationalist political parties that seem to display a great deal of racism. Here was his reply to me...

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to
investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud
them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not
implied."

Huh? What does that mean, exactly?

It means as long as their anti-jihad, what they do otherwise is none of his business.

580 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:16:22pm

re: #557 n in wi

George Soros wants to buy an O

The funny thing is I wouldn't really want to be George Soros right now.

One way to liquidate a debt (political or financial) is to liquidate the creditor.

581 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:17:04pm

re: #571 slokat

another example at this site Alkota - Mandy's description made me think it as first choice

That's a good one. I just grabbed the first one I came to at Google.

582 Pete-billy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:17:18pm

re: #506 sattv4u2

thats great,,, but can you bring a tad more to the table than that !?!?!?!?!

hi satt4u2,

most of the time im reading the discussions here , i love it . And yes, i can't tolerate or accept others who support directly or indirectly nazis like VB, they are really danger.

583 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:18:00pm

re: #496 Daisy

Me? I'm a true blue devotee of Agatha Christie - and archetypes too :)

I love Dame Agatha! I also like Margaret Truman's books centered around Washington DC.

I also like Vince Flynn - his first book is quite cathartic, as far as disdain for politicians go.

584 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:18:27pm

re: #582 Pete-billy

hi satt4u2,

most of the time im reading the discussions here , i love it . And yes, i can't tolerate or accept others who support directly or indirectly nazis like VB, they are really danger.

there ya go!

585 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:18:41pm

re: #537 galloping granny

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

Make sure you stay in touch w/us when it comes time to take it off. You're going to need all the support you can muster!

586 sleepyone  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:18:57pm

Well I'll be goddamned. I don't think I've ever commented on any of the neo nazi threads because I just couldn't be bothered or didn't see the importance or connection. But I have to hand it to Charles. This really puts the nail in the coffin of skepticism for me. Don't ask me why all of the other threads left me with the usual "eh". But this is a dagger to any lingering doubt or complacency I may have felt.

I hate to sound like a toady but thanks Charles and LGF.

587 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:19:36pm

re: #578 gman

The photos were from a Taal Aktie archive but notice how the groups mix with one another

TAK is the "culture and identity" group, they'll graffiti shop windows in Flanders if they put up a sign in French or English.

588 The Other Les  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:20:28pm

re: #567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Really? Why?

A veggie only diet only makes sense if there is a proper health issue as happens with some people. Otherwise is it simply someone pretending to be a superior being. (Which is a gross understatement when used as description of Hitler.)

589 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:20:40pm

re: #537 galloping granny

Trying to figure out how the heck to put a disposable diaper on a 75 pound incontinent dog.

Why not attach one of those bucket thingys like with the horses that pull the Hansom Cabs around NYC

590 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:20:51pm

re: #575 ArmyWife

What a good person you are! I wonder of the people ones would work if you put them on backwards (so the velcro tape things are on her back. I be not matter what, it would be hard. I have an 80 pound German Shepherd, I can just imagine what you are going through.

Floors can be mopped. Its all good as long as I do not say "go," "out," or put on shoes. Then all you know what breaks loose.

591 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:21:04pm

re: #504 Cognito

I never did trust that weird microphone.

I always liked the one Gene Rayburn used on "Match Game" - the long skinny one with the little ball on top. I made reproductions of it with a straw and modeling clay of it when I was a kid.

592 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:21:24pm

re: #546 WrathofG-d

N E V E R - A G A I N

watch this and they remember that 95% of my wife's family was butchered like the people you see in this film and then ask why we did not go after all the members of the S.S. after the war ALL MEMBERS OF THE S.S. SHOULD HAVE SPENT THE REST OF THERE LIVES IN PRISON. the fact that the soviets were the only ones who went after the S.S. is a total shame THE VERY IDEA OF A COUNTRY CALLED 'GERMANY' SOULD NOT BE ON ANY MAP AFTER WHAT THEY DID DURING WW2

593 legalpad  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:21:52pm

re: #563 yochanan

You're point being that the United States has used an evil to fight evil before, right? Should they not have done it then, or should they also do it now?

594 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:22:30pm

re: #583 Intrepid

Thanks for that -- I'll check them out. Always interested in recommendations.

595 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:22:41pm

re: #591 Intrepid

I always liked the one Gene Rayburn used on "Match Game" - the long skinny one with the little ball on top. I made reproductions of it with a straw and modeling clay of it when I was a kid.

"And what would you like for Christmas, Lil Intrepid"

"Gee,, I'd really like a stick with a foam ball on the end!"

596 sleepyone  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:22:49pm

re: #591 Intrepid

I always liked the one Gene Rayburn used on "Match Game" - the long skinny one with the little ball on top. I made reproductions of it with a straw and modeling clay of it when I was a kid.

Yeah. And he always held it with his thumb pointed upward along the skinny shaft.

597 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:23:15pm

re: #585 Daisy

Make sure you stay in touch w/us when it comes time to take it off. You're going to need all the support you can muster!

With any luck she will not try to take it off herself. I once had a dog who had his feet run over. We did all kinds of surgery to fix them and then bandaged them up. For some reason I took the idea to put children's socks over the bandages in an attempt to get him to leave the bandages alone. How my Lucky loved his socks! One red and one blue were his favorites and he wore socks long after the bandages were gone. Never once tried to take them off.

598 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:23:23pm

re: #596 sleepyone

Yeah. And he always held it with his thumb pointed upward along the skinny shaft.

TMI

599 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:24:40pm

re: #527 MandyManners

Has O.J. found the real killers yet?

He's got a better chance of it, now that's he's in that Las Vegas jail waiting for sentencing in December. Maybe he'll find the killers there!

...perhaps he'll look in the shower room mirror!

600 n in wi  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:26:30pm

re: #595 sattv4u2

"And what would you like for Christmas, Lil Intrepid"

"Gee,, I'd really like a stick with a foam ball on the end!"

Who will play the part of Rielly Nelson?

601 Daisy  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:27:17pm

re: #597 galloping granny

With any luck she will not try to take it off herself. I once had a dog who had his feet run over. We did all kinds of surgery to fix them and then bandaged them up. For some reason I took the idea to put children's socks over the bandages in an attempt to get him to leave the bandages alone. How my Lucky loved his socks! One red and one blue were his favorites and he wore socks long after the bandages were gone. Never once tried to take them off.

For some reason? It sounds like you are a maternal genius.

602 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:27:22pm

re: #326 MandyManners

I have a question about a cross I've seen associated with Germany/Nazis. It's a cross with a narrow intersection whose arms get fatter and end in a kind of serif manner.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I saw a kid with a sweat-shirt today with that cross--in red--imposed on some black dragons. He was about five.

It's the official German roundel -- the symbol they paint on their military aircraft and vehicles (including tanks). Their main military decoration (Eisernes Kreutz, Iron Cross) is of that design also. It's been that way since Germany was a nation -- I believe it was Prussian before that.

Technically, it's a cross pattee.

It was very popular with the surfer crowd back in the '60s, and it's very popular as a fashion statement today -- among others, West Coast Choppers uses it as their logo.

603 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:28:38pm
604 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:29:12pm

re: #533 ArmyWife

Cog, it seems like I am doing lots of your journalistic investigation FOR you. It was NOT Pat Sajak that burned witches. It was Pat Morita.

/no idea why his name just popped into my head.

Dang - I knew the early seasons of "Happy Days" was a hotbed of wackiness.

/heh

605 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:29:28pm

re: #601 Daisy

For some reason? It sounds like you are a maternal genius.

Nope. Just mother to the multitudes, both two and four leggeds. There was some period of time that I forgot my own name, having heard only Mom for what seemed like decades.

606 sleepyone  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:31:39pm

re: #598 sattv4u2

TMI

D'oh.

607 Kenneth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:31:55pm

Naked Japan major nabbed with women's underwear

Umm... why don't they just use handcuffs like everbody else?

608 Kenneth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:33:16pm
609 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:33:31pm

re: #607 Kenneth

Naked Japan major nabbed with women's underwear

Umm... why don't they just use handcuffs like everbody else?

That is hysterical. Sounds like he is one of those many Japanese folks with the "one drink is two too many" gene. Poor guy.

610 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:34:08pm
611 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:35:48pm

re: #395 NYCHardhat

I believe Palin has the best shot, but I think the smears will destroy her. I hope not though

Her major strength is that she doesn't care what those "jerks" think of her.

I think we'll be seeing a lot more of her.

612 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:39:10pm

re: #563 yochanan

Respectfully snipped, sir

the very idea of a country called germany should not even exist at all.

Hundreds of my German friends would now disagree with that statement, Yochanan. To paint them with the same evil brush as those who perpetrated the Holocaust is to diminish the struggle they've faced to overcome the stain of that evil. And they live their lives and do good work.

613 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:39:25pm

re: #588 The Other Les

I generally can not stand vegetarians, or vegans. But I do know some that are just great people. Know about 25 vegetarians. Like about 5 vegetarians.

614 galloping granny  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:41:03pm

re: #612 Intrepid

Hundreds of my German friends would now disagree with that statement, Yochanan. To paint them with the same evil brush as those who perpetrated the Holocaust is to diminish the struggle they've faced to overcome the stain of that evil. And they live their lives and do good work.

Something else to bear in mind. Well over half of the Yanks that defeated Germany were themselves of German extraction.

615 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:41:43pm

well here's my German Grandfather.
s'pose he makes me need to genocide myself.
that's a US WWI combat medic uniform

grandma before photoshop
after

616 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:41:59pm

re: #603 Iron Fist

Winchesters are good. So are Marlins. Winchester has discontinued all of their lever-actions (at least '94s), so you might have a little difficulty finding what you want. You might want to consider a lever-gun in .44 Magnum. It's plenty heavy enough for most any game you would happen to hunt in the US. You get a 10 round magazine rather than the 5-6 that you get with the .30-30.

Either way, you have a gun that will be one of the last types that are outlawed if the worst happens. That said, I didn't see any lever action rifles at the Sporting goods store this afternoon, and not a terribly good selection at the gun show, either. With demand for firearms so high right now you may have trouble finding what you want. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice.

The funny part is, lever action rifles were the 1860s version of assault rifles. The Henry, which became the Winchester, was one of the first reliable repeaters.

:)

617 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:45:34pm

re: #595 sattv4u2

"And what would you like for Christmas, Lil Intrepid"

"Gee,, I'd really like a stick with a foam ball on the end!"

Heh. I was a weird little kid.

:-)

618 philosophus invidius  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:46:47pm

re: 212, 242

American fraternities distinguish themselves with Greek letters; in central Europe its the colors on the sashes and the hats. But unlike their North America counterparts, central European fraternities are frequently associated are known for far-right politics rather than keg parties.

619 Steffan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:47:06pm

re: #610 Iron Fist

Somewhere around here I have an Iron Cross 1st Class medal. It's got a swastika in the center and "1939" at the bottom. It tarnishes like pure silver. I picked it up at the flea market in Berlin when I was stationed there.

620 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:47:21pm

re: #615 spidly

well here's my German Grandfather.
s'pose he makes me need to genocide myself.
that's a US WWI combat medic uniform

grandma before photoshop
after

fixed that before pic

621 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:47:36pm

re: #594 Daisy

Thanks for that -- I'll check them out. Always interested in recommendations.

If you go for Margaret Truman, she wrote some of them as a series. So make sure you get the earliest books first.

622 Kenneth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:51:17pm

re: #609 galloping granny

No kidding. When I feel the late night urge to buy women's underwear, I usually have the presence of mind to put on a pair of Groucho glasses first.

But that's just me.

623 Kenneth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:52:21pm

re: #614 galloping granny

Eisenhower?

624 Intrepid  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:54:52pm

re: #615 spidly

well here's my German Grandfather.
s'pose he makes me need to genocide myself.
that's a US WWI combat medic uniform

grandma before photoshop
after

A handsome couple they were, spidly.

625 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:57:02pm

re: #624 Intrepid

A handsome couple they were, spidly.

for the sake of never again I have to put a bullet in my head, I guess. Eh?

626 Learned Mother of Zion  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:58:01pm

re: #368 n in wi

I'll offer a list, in no particular order
S. Palin
M. Romney
N. Gingrich
M. Pence
P. Ryan
B. Jindahl

M. Steele

627 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:59:00pm

I did a Google Search on the bar in the picture (De Beest) and it is featured in a book called "Into a World of Hate"

628 Kenneth  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 6:59:40pm

re: #627 gman

Charming.

629 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:00:49pm

TODAY'S EURO support the arabs not much really changes.
there grand parents were in S.S. DIVISONS (not just germans i might ad) there were S.S. divisions made up of croats, bosnians (hansar) hungarians (silver arrow) ukranians, and even the vichy french. and the baltic countries supplied volenteers who were death camp guards.

if i have offended germans TOUGH.
at least your here to b'''h at me my wife's relitives are not.

and if you don't understand why i don't trust today's euro i could careless. these belgian neo nazis are very small fry esp if you look at real euro history.

630 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:02:21pm

re: #629 yochanan

TODAY'S EURO support the arabs not much really changes.
there grand parents were in S.S. DIVISONS (not just germans i might ad) there were S.S. divisions made up of croats, bosnians (hansar) hungarians (silver arrow) ukranians, and even the vichy french. and the baltic countries supplied volenteers who were death camp guards.

if i have offended germans TOUGH.
at least your here to b'''h at me my wife's relitives are not.

and if you don't understand why i don't trust today's euro i could careless. these belgian neo nazis are very small fry esp if you look at real euro history.

arrow cross for Hungary.

and you're way over the top on the extermination of Germans stuff. what am I supposed to do with myself.

631 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:12:33pm

re: #614 galloping granny

I remember seeing an Allied propaganda poster once that read "Himmler gegen Deutschland! Eisenhower gegen Himmler!" [Himmler against Germany! Eisenhower against Himmler!]

That's when I recognized that Gen. Eisenhower had a German name...

(Hmm. Apparently I've commented on this before.)

632 Dar ul Harb  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:14:17pm

re: #620 spidly

fixed that before pic

Yeah, otherwise Photoshop did a lot for her. ;)

633 spidly  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:19:11pm

re: #632 Dar ul Harb

Yeah, otherwise Photoshop did a lot for her. ;)

moisture damage I think. freekin pain in the ass.
the grandpa pic was fairly spotty too, couldn't read the photographer's stamp befor I cleaned it up.

634 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:27:13pm

frankly if there had been real trials for ALL S.S. MEMBERS the org. s.s. was created to commit mass murderthen i might be a little less upset. i consider the creation of the DDR as a little punishment for germany's earlier crimes. KARMA IS A B'''H. I NEVER SAID I WANTED ALL GERMANS DEAD JUST THAT THERE BE NO COUNTRY CALLED GERMANY. the idea of a country called E.U. might just be a reaction to europe's past.

635 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:30:26pm

europe is soaked with jewish blood SOME WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THAT I GUESS and this is odd given that the nature of this thread is to be offended by very minor league neo nazis (ones that don't even have jewish & romany blood on there hands)

636 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:33:53pm

re: #634 yochanan

That's how Dinnerjacket says it when he talks of Israel Yoch, don't mirror echo him friend.

637 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:35:40pm

re: #629 yochanan

They are not that small fry, they are networked all over the world, including to certain "refugees" & their descendants in Argentina and Mexico.

638 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:38:21pm

re: #635 yochanan

europe is soaked with jewish blood SOME WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THAT I GUESS and this is odd given that the nature of this thread is to be offended by very minor league neo nazis (ones that don't even have jewish & romany blood on there hands)

So, are you saying that we shouldn't be worried about these "very minor league neo nazis" as you call them or that we shouldn't worry about alliance involving them or both?

639 Randall Gross  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:44:47pm

Here's a video of a NN rally in Salamanca .. seems innocent, like just another metal punk band until you start watching the hands.

640 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:50:35pm

re: #638 gman

So, are you saying that we shouldn't be worried about these "very minor league neo nazis" as you call them or that we shouldn't worry about alliance involving them or both?

NEVER AGAIN The belgian nazi small fry sort of like the nats from rotten fruit. THE IRANIAN'S with a nuke could create a second jewish genocide.
OF COURSE NOT I DON'T WANT TO BE ALLEIS WITH ANY NAZI'S BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAINT THE GERMAN NAZIS AS SOME ISOLATED GROUP THE GERMANS SUPPORTED HITLER AND HIS MOVEMENT AND MILLIONS JOINED IN THE MURDER OF JEWS AND ROMANY. I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH CHARLES IN EXPOSING THESE NAZI'S but that is not what this is about the S.S. was part of the german gov't and millions of members from every euro country and the whole purpose of this group was to murder jews and romany. Crystalnach happened in every town and city in germany were every jewish bus. and shul was attacked ANY GERMAN AFTER THE WAR WHO SAID HE DID NOT KNOW WAS FULL OF DRECK. The pogrom that was called crystal nack happened all over germany on geerman main streets and towns. in every german town, city and village jewish bus. were attacked and boycotted, every shul was attacked.

641 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:55:38pm

re: #640 yochanan

Charles has made it perfectly clear that all Nazis are unacceptable, small fry or big. I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

642 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 7:58:32pm

re: #641 gman

I think yoch is upset given the anniversary of today, but it's bordering on europhobia.

643 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 8:04:35pm

re: #642 Sharmuta

I think yoch is upset given the anniversary of today, but it's bordering on europhobia.

thanks for clarifying that. The 70th anniversary of Kristallnacht is tomorrow.

644 Sharmuta  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 8:08:25pm

re: #643 gman

Ah- thanks for the correction. I was reading some european news sites earlier, and with the time difference, it was "today".

645 Maine's Michael  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 8:43:49pm

Poor Filip Dewinter.

Has hated the the Jews since his parent's told him the Jews stole the 'P' from the Flemish alphabet, forcing him to spell his ferkuckt name with a 'F'.

Sad sack of shit.

646 yochanan  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 9:35:33pm

re: #638 gman

So, are you saying that we shouldn't be worried about these "very minor league neo nazis" as you call them or that we shouldn't worry about alliance involving them or both?

getting out my CLUE BAT NO WERE HAVE I SUPPORTED THESE NEO NAZI CLOWNS DUH! WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING IS THE REAL NAZI'S GOT OFF EASY. SOME DON'T SEEM TO GET IT.

I think it was stalin who said kill one person your a murder but kill 1,000,000 it is just a sactistic or something like that.

a phobia is a baseless fear EURO LAND IS SOAKED WITH THE BLOOD OF JEWS WHO WERE MURDERED THERE FOR 2,000 YEARS. I know my people history euroland FEH. YOU CAN'T NAME A EURO COUNTRY WERE JEWS HAVEN'T BEEN MURDED AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

647 gman  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 10:02:23pm

re: #646 yochanan

getting out my CLUE BAT NO WERE HAVE I SUPPORTED THESE NEO NAZI CLOWNS DUH! WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING IS THE REAL NAZI'S GOT OFF EASY. SOME DON'T SEEM TO GET IT.

I think it was stalin who said kill one person your a murder but kill 1,000,000 it is just a sactistic or something like that.

a phobia is a baseless fear EURO LAND IS SOAKED WITH THE BLOOD OF JEWS WHO WERE MURDERED THERE FOR 2,000 YEARS. I know my people history euroland FEH. YOU CAN'T NAME A EURO COUNTRY WERE JEWS HAVEN'T BEEN MURDED AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

ok, I catch your drift, now slowly put down the bottle or can you're holding and step back from the table.

Iron Fist Rule

648 Former Belgian  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:08:50pm

re: #101 Thanos

"The Democrats could have put up an Inuit dogcatcher and won"

Yet, as Bill Whittle pointed out, the result was (albeit decisive) much closer than the drive-by media predicted. McCain was fighting the mother of uphill battles, outspent 7-to-1, the legacy media unashamedly running interference for 0bama, having to add Sarah Palin to his ticket to overcome lack of enthusiasm of his base, nobly but wrongheadedly insisting on fighting clean against the dirty Chicago machine,... yet still he came within 5% of winning.

649 PayBackTime  Sat, Nov 8, 2008 11:38:48pm

This is evidence that the evil behind WW2, nazi vermin, are still there, waiting for an opportune time to resurface.

WW2 would have ended sooner if Der SHITler decided to marry sooner.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson.

650 nemecizer  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 4:25:20am

What's funny is I visited Antwerp in the late 1990s to meet with a (at that time) friend named Filip Camerman. He was a die-hard socialist and he pointed out this pub to me saying "that's where the Nazis hang out". It's amazing that it's still there, if I recall correctly it was just off of a main square. It was pretty prime real estate. I can't believe it hasn't closed down since then. I guess the Flemish are potentially more racist than meets the eye.

651 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 6:42:43am

Walter L. Newton 11/08/08 9:50:32 pm

You may have seen this posting by Charles on the last VB thread...

I emailed Robert Spencer on my own, asking him if he had any intention of looking into the European nationalist political parties that seem to display a great deal of racism. Here was his reply to me... "Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not implied."

Just for full disclosure. I sent this email to Mr. Spencer, this was his answer and I gave Charles permission to post this if he wanted. Charles did not have anything to do with my question to Mr. Spencer. Charles did not solicit my communication with Mr. Spencer. I was not trolling for Charles nor was I "spying" for Charles.

But I thought Mr. Spencer's answer spoke volumes. This is like saying "Actually, I am fighting economic problems in Germany, and have no interest in or intention to investigate The Nazi party. Insofar as they are fighting economic problems, I applaud them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not implied."

Mr. Spencer has evidently seen Charles posting on the last VB thread, and emailed me this message...

"Yet you say below: 'As far as the rift with Charles Johnson, that's not really my battle. I did not contact you as a "troll" or "spy" for Charles, simply as someone who has respected your work, and I felt I needed to pass on my concerns.' Why not just be honest? Why did you think it necessary to lie to me? It doesn't reflect well on you or Charles Johnson. But of course nothing much of what he does lately reflects well upon him."

For someone who is not very interested in what the European nationalist political parties are doing, Mr. Spencer certainly seems to be VERY INTERESTED in monitoring what is being discussed on LGF. Something to think about.

I felt this comment should be reposted on this thread, since Walter had posted it on the overnight thread. robert- you have lost all credibility.

652 guftafs  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 6:58:17am

re: #651 Sharmuta

Spencer's indifference is not surprising at all considering his dubious remarks on the connection between race and culture.

653 Irish Rose  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 7:32:07am

Charles, I contiue to admire and appreciate your thorough and determined exposure of these bastards and their vile agenda.

I sometimes fear for your safety, though... these are very ugly people.
Please take care.

654 Irish Rose  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 7:35:59am

re: #651 Sharmuta

Walter L. Newton 11/08/08 9:50:32 pm


I felt this comment should be reposted on this thread, since Walter had posted it on the overnight thread. robert- you have lost all credibility.

I wholeheartedly agree.

655 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 8:50:18am

re: #651 Sharmuta

I guess my link on this was incorrect. Here is the link to Walter's comment, which I quoted in it's entirety:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

656 yochanan  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 8:52:12am

re: #647 gman

was totally sober. frankly some of the reaction is wrong and upsetting would expect that reaction from the crowd that supports the euro neo nazi's.

657 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 9:00:07am

re: #656 yochanan

I wasn't sure what your problem was last night. Charles is exposing the offspring of the people you are railing against. We can't go back in time and stop the nazis, but we can work on exposing the neo-nazis before they hurt Israel and the Jews of europe. If you want to rail at people, perhaps you should rail not at those of us support Charles' work on this issue, but rather those who are enabling the neo-nazis.

658 yochanan  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 9:42:57am

re: #657 Sharmuta

i critized the german nation and some jumped on me for doing that. the nazis weren't some isolated grouplet within other wisely normal german people. the nazi movement was the legal gov't of germany and were popular with regular germans as long as they were winning. for example

Kristallnacht (IPA: [kr,ɪst.aɫ.n'ɒxt]; literally "Crystal night") or the Night of Broken Glass, was a pogrom in Nazi Germany on November 9–10, 1938. On a single night, 92 Jews were murdered and 25,000–30,000 were arrested and deported to concentration camps.[1][2] It is often called Novemberpogrom or Reichspogromnacht in German.

The Nazis coordinated an attack on Jewish people and their property in Germany and German-controlled lands as a part of Führer Adolf Hitler's anti-Semitic policy.[3]

On November 7, 1938, Herschel Grynszpan, a 17-year old German Jew enraged by his family's expulsion from Germany, walked into the German Embassy in Paris and fired five shots at a junior diplomat, Ernst vom Rath. Two days later, the diplomat died and Germany was in the grip of skillfully orchestrated anti-Jewish violence[4]. In the early hours of November 10, coordinated destruction broke out in cities, towns and villages throughout the Third Reich.

The consequences of this violence were disastrous for the Jews of the Third Reich. In a single night, Kristallnacht saw the destruction of more than 200 synagogues and the ransacking of thousands of Jewish businesses and homes. It marked the beginning of the systematic eradication of a people who could trace their ancestry in Germany to Ancient Rome and served as a prelude to the Holocaust that was to follow.[5][6]

THIS WAS THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE HOLOCOUST and it happened all over germany infront of all of the germans. some seem to think i was talking about germans in america even before the war as was mentioned by some (i guess some germans have very thin skin) My main point was that the German state wasn't punished in any real way by the western powers only a few houndred were punished at the nurnenberg trials when EVERY MEMBER OF THE S.S. WERE GUILTY OF WAR CRIMES BY EITHER DOING THEM OR SUPPORTING THEM. And that the regular german army acted in support of this genocide of Jews, Romany, and Russian civilians as well as russian POW'S whom the germans butchered in numbers close to 1,000,000. It was regretable that it was only the soviets that punished germany for their crimes because the soviets did it in ways that were out side of legal norms. The sudaten germans and others were not in the best position to complain about there treatment after the war. it was the crimes they supported that caused the hatred and brutal treatment they recieved later. I wish this all hand been done by legal courts with legal means this is not what happened and many innocent people had vile things done to them. BAD KARMA so to speak. I never said i wanted innocent germans to be punished not wanting a german state is a different thing remember after the war germany was occupied by the 4 powers, US, UK. FRANCE AND USSR. I would have wanted this to last longer and have real trials for all the members of the S.S. and not just the german ones but the french, croatian, hungarian, ukranian, bosnian and others such as the baltic ones. and after that anex those occupation zones into different countries and not create a country called germany. In reality after the war the cold war started so other than a few show trials not much was done to punish people with jewish blood on there hands.

659 Twenglish  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 12:38:47pm

Philip deWinter has to go ,
He is one of the most dangerous men in European government .

More and more right wing Nazi groups are rising up and taking over government by small increments , the fact that they have political podiums in Belgium and Austria and tentacles in just about every European country , this alone is enough to spell trouble for Europe and the world as a whole , with re surging enemies like these who needs the damned Marxists ?

660 Twenglish  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 12:59:57pm

Charles,

on the photo you show with de Winter pictured in front of the pub sign "de Beest " that name on the sign is Flanders or Dutch and means "The Beast" , it Looks like they are into a little bit of 666 action , especially with the SS insignia .

the place is a bar or pub located in Antwerp ,and you could just imagine what type of clientele they must be serving there

gonna research that pub

thanks for the hat tip ...

661 Twenglish  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 3:10:56pm

About that Poster , According to it the Vlaamse Blok support group are nothing more than groups of drunken youths

The poster says in Dutch Flanders :

Gratis Vaten
Leeuw van Vlanderen (de Beest)
11 Juli 2008

Met Jan Pensis / Filip Dewinter

Vlaams Belang Jongeren Antwerp


Ths Poster reads into English like this :

Free Kegs (Beer)

Lion of Flanders (or the pub in the picture -the Beast)
July 11 2008
With Jan Pensis /Filip Dewinter
Flemish Interests Youth Group Antwerp

What it amounts to is attracting in and feeding groups of Belgian youths with an all you can drink beer and music party just prior to filling their minds full of crap ...

Say , Didn't someone we know just recently do this in Berlin ?

just a question ...

662 Born_to_lose  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 4:24:51pm

Ummm, don't mean to stir the shit, and NOT that I agree with it, but from my understanding of friends who have traveled to this region, there is also all of this kind of "left over" wwII/nazi propaganda all over the place (I read the article, and I get that this is a new sign, however). A good friend of mine, who is Jewish by the way, went to Amsterdam about 7 years ago to a REALLY old pub. Anyway, the joint had really high ceilings, and long benches where people lined the who thing drinking with friends (I think this is a style seen in German bars too). Anyway, he told me that on the ceiling, there were all kinds of dated photographs, flags, ooold-as-the-hills news paper clippings, and so on, but peaking out of some of the hoards of shit was a portion of the Nazi emblem that had been painted on the ceiling that was fading and hardly noticeable at a first glance. My friend was not put off by it, really, as there was no bad vibe directed towards himself and group of other Jewish friends by the wait staff, but he still wondered WHY it was still up there. He asked one of the waiters, and they told him that this place, once it had been taken over by the S.S., was used as headquarters in that town. Basically, the management wanted to leave everything as it was to maintain the integrity of the building, and knew that over time it would fade anyway. So, I guess the ONLY point I am trying to make is that a lot of the structures that showed ANY kind of Nazi transformation (that are still standing of course) were not tampered with, almost as a reminder to never forget what and who had once occupied certain places.

663 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 4:36:06pm

re: #662 Born_to_lose

This is not an isolated incident. This is just the most recent link in a long chain that shows this party is neo-fascist.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

664 gman  Sun, Nov 9, 2008 7:57:53pm

re: #662 Born_to_lose

The pub itself is a neo- nazi hangout featured in Nick Ryan's Into a World of Hate: A Journey Among The Extreme Right

This was already mentioned in the thread.

665 superjan  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 10:08:18am

In Holland, Vlaams Belang Leader Filip de Winter sometimes even figures in leading talk shows like Buitenhof. He does his very best to present himself as a correct leader of a correct party. As you have uncovered he is still a Nazi at heart. I hope the coverage of LGF helps uncovering the true face of this beast.

666 AlexD  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:01:31pm

Charles, I agreed with you 100% when you raised an issue that some people may have other than noble motives for joining the anti-jihad bandwagon (i.e. nazis) and that it's wrong to ally with such types (though i completely disagree with your position on Robert Spencer). However it's also true that some people can have other than noble motives for denouncing nazis (i.e. leftists). Isn't this strommen guy a leftist? And if he is does that mean you think leftwing fascists are better that nazi fascists?

667 gman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 5:32:44pm

re: #666 AlexD

However it's also true that some people can have other than noble motives for denouncing nazis (i.e. leftists).

I'm confused. Please explain how someone could have an other than honorable motive for denouncing Nazis.

Also, I'm curious where you got your information on Strommen?
You act like you're not sure about what you're saying but I think you know exactly what your agenda is here, Alex with 8 comments.

668 AlexD  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 4:22:06am

"I'm confused. Please explain how someone could have an other than honorable motive for denouncing Nazis."

You're kidding right? I mean i refuse to believe someone can be confused on such a simple point. Unless someone has pretty blinding agenda himself. However if you really confused here it goes: someone might have a hateful, supremacist, murderous e.t.c. ideology or for that matter any sentiment which Nazis interfere with and thus he will hate and despise Nazis because they are hostile to his ideology or his sentiments and not because he has a decency, morals and compassion. For example i'm pretty sure all black thugs will denounce Nazis and white supremacists cause you know they're black (needless to say they will have no problems with black racists and supremacists and many of them are just that). Black racists will denounce Nazis. Communists will denounce Nazis (Stalin has been vigorously denouncing them while slaughtering in the same manner millions of innocents).

Anyway if you have trouble conceiving how can someone denounce bad guys for other than noble reasons i suggest you ask Charles cause that was his very point in distancing himself from some of the people who denounce jihadists.

And believe it or not i have no agenda you imagining i have. I have seen some evidence that Strommen is a leftist (his warmth towards Islam, opposition to Iraq war, Green party links on his site e.t.c.). By no means it's conclusive, but it has an odor. So no I'm not sure he is a leftist and if in reality he is a decent guy who respects justice, individual freedom, freedom of speech, do not dislike rich people, do not think that it's ok to rob them just cause they are rich e.t.c. then i of course apologize to him.

669 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 4:22:59am

re: #666 AlexD

However it's also true that some people can have other than noble motives for denouncing nazis (i.e. leftists). Isn't this strommen guy a leftist? And if he is does that mean you think leftwing fascists are better that nazi fascists?

Yes, indeed, this Strømmen guy is a leftist. How do I know that? Well, because I am "this Strømmen guy". Me being a leftist, Charles and I probably disagree on many things. Thankfully, neither of us seem to live in an entirely Manichean universe. Do you?

Please note that I do not immediately accept all the evidence for the fascism of the VB that Charles have presented on LGF. Most of it is solid. Some is rather circumstancial, and dependant on not always equally solid translations from Dutch or other languages. When it comes to "De beest", which I tipped Charles about, it is a good example of a small piece of information which smells very foul when in context; but which can be explained away when not. It caused quite some reaction in Belgian media, because they've got context.

When it comes to the video from the book fair, which I had not seen before today (and which I have only been able to watch without sound), I think Charles might be reading too much into it. His general analysis of the VB as fascist, and of Voorpost as a "European tribal nationalist militia" is - however- spot on.

Please also note that I have not referred to the Vlaams Belang as Nazi, but as "eurofascist". In my eyes, eurofascism differs quite a bit from Nazism, just like socalled eurocommunism differs from Stalinism. Like any other ideology, fascism has not been standing still for the last 60 years. Also, European fascism in the 1920s-1940s was so much more than Hitlerism. Many people have a tendency to forget that.

670 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 4:31:27am

re: #668 AlexD

So no I'm not sure he is a leftist and if in reality he is a decent guy who respects justice, individual freedom, freedom of speech, do not dislike rich people, do not think that it's ok to rob them just cause they are rich e.t.c. then i of course apologize to him.

I don't know if I am a decent guy, but I am a strong believer in individual freedoms, including freedom of speech and freedom of religion; and I do not have any particular dislike of rich people. I do however believe in a welfare state, and in taxes as a necessary evil. And I was against the Iraq war, because I believed there where other alternatives that could have worked better to get rid of Saddam (a belief which may of course be wrong) and the deeply totalitarian Baath-regime.

Can I have your apology, pretty please?

671 AlexD  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 7:33:23am
Yes, indeed, this Strømmen guy is a leftist. How do I know that? Well, because I am "this Strømmen guy". Me being a leftist, Charles and I probably disagree on many things. Thankfully, neither of us seem to live in an entirely Manichean universe. Do you?

I live in a universe where there are things I hold dear: a well being of innocent people, those who REALLY have a compassion for others and thus are restraining their appetites to do no harm to them. In this same universe there are other people who do not feel that way, they don't care about innocents and will screw them easily to reach whatever goals they have. The second kind outnumbers the first kind greatly. Needless to say the second kind will, while screwing others, think all the good things about themselves and will say all the good words about themselves ("good", "democratic", "pro-liberty" or whatever good words they know) Why am I saying this? Because if this "disagree on many things" does not point to the second disposition of character, i don't care about that and will not denounce someone because of that (for example many people strongly disagree with me on many issues of logic and philosophy but since it has nothing to do with content of their character, i do not dislike them because of that or like them if they agree with me). However if these opinions do point to such disposition (for example if someone will say to me that "Holocaust never happened and they all deserved it anyway") it's a completely another game. As you may have guessed i consider the opinions you hold (together with your self-identification as leftist) as a latter kind. The only reason i do is that a) the agenda they propel is itself hostile to my values (i.e. robbing people out their rightfully earned money and being soft on violent criminals) and b) ALL the proponents of this agenda i encountered so far cannot be more further from being motivated by compassion and morals (vast majority want free stuff, want to be financially protected, envy or hate rich folks and the minority find amusement in being a rebel or some other equally revolting stuff).

672 AlexD  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 7:36:19am

Anyway it is possible that someone holds leftist agenda and is motivated by compassion, morals or whatever one call this kind of motivation. I think it's in same realm of probability that someone holds white supremacist ideology out of morals, but it's possible. And if it's the case with you i apologize to you. However there's a quick way to determine if that's one way or another

1) You say you recognize that "taxes" are evil. Now with socialism it's not about taxes per se but about an idea that state has a right to take money away from those who are more or less successful and transfer it to those who are relatively poor. So i take it that you consider the money takeaway from rightful owners evil, but a distribution to poor is good and it's a "greater good" since more people would benefit. Just like when a mother faced for example with a food shortage will have either to sacrifice one of her four sons so that others can survive or do make this sacrifice and then all four will be gone. She may love four of them unconditionally but the common sense is telling her that it's one or four and thus she will make a hard but right choice. After that if she really loved the one she sacrificed she will be in pain, she will hate herself, she will thought of killing herself...i think you get the idea. Because this is how a person reacts when he is doing something he thinks is evil to only prevent more evil from happening. To take money from rightful owner who still has enough is far less evil than the example i mentioned, however it's evil and thus we should find that leftists feel guilty about the takeaway, they feel a special piety to those they are about to screw for greater good. When someone say "rich get richer, poor get poorer", "rich are greedy", "those who do not want to let government redistribute their wealth is selfish" leftists will be outraged, i mean they already feel uneasy about the whole deal and now someone dares to disrespect the fine folks they about screw for the greater good. I’m not even mentioning “kill rich people” types such as Ayers, Che, Mao e.t.c: nothing but disgust and determination to fight them at every opportunity they can expect from true leftists.

Now, I believe that’s how you feel, but then I encourage you to visit any leftist site (Daily Kos, DU, Huffington Post in US) and you will find out that it is sooo not the case. That there is zero feeling of guilt, zero piety towards rich, zero anything of this kind. They don’t fell any unease at all. At this point I trust you will be shocked at what kind of people your co-leftists are.


2) You say you “believe in freedom of speech”. Now believing in freedom of speech means respecting and protecting freedom to express opinions you don’t like or even detest. Otherwise all the dictators believe in freedom of the speech, i.e. speech they like. If that’s the case than you of course is outraged by the so-called Fairness Doctrine which will interfere with the freedom of political radio (largely conservative) in US and is directly explained by the senior Democrats as a mean to “make it more balanced”. You’re absolutely outraged at the ongoing attempt to silence criticism of Islam worldwide by various Islamic countries (you know “red lines which should not be crossed” e.t.c.), you’re outrage at the whole Human Rights Commissions trials of Levant, Steyn and others for expressing their opinions. You no doubt outraged at the punishing of people by European governments for expressing opinions which are insulting to Muslims. Are you shocked to find out that all the attempts to shout down speakers on campuses across the US are being perpetrated by leftists and islamists? Now these are all examples of assaults on freedom of speech you obviously don’t like. Did you denounce all these? If you did, you are true believer in freedom of speech, if you didn’t, you are not.

673 AlexD  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 7:37:10am

3) You say you believe in freedom of religion. If that’s so then you of course deeply troubled that there’s a religion whose founder is reported as commanding “whoever changes his religion, kill him”, and is reported as saying this in a source which is a second in importance in this belief system. All the schools of this religion’s jurisprudence uphold this ruling. And there some other commandments in the prime source of this religion to the same effect (for example: But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted ; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray. Sura 3:90 Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. Sura 16:106). And more importantly there are powerful groups around the world (including governments) of adherents of this religion, which act in accordance with these commandments and do not show any intention of slowing down.

To sum it all up: if you recognize the evil inherent in your political agenda and absolutely shocked that your co-leftists don’t, if you raised your voice to guard political speech from blatant assaults by your co-leftists and Islamists, if you troubled by elements within Islam (both religion and it’s adherents) which require killing or some other punishment for apostates, then, if you can back it up with quotes from your actual past opinion pieces, I owe you unconditional and sincere apology.


Sorry for such a long post.

674 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 8:24:39am

re: #673 AlexD

3) You say you believe in freedom of religion.

Yup, and yes - that does mean that I find it deeply troubling when people are not allowed that freedom or when people attack it. Regardless of who the attackers and who the victims are. In this regards I am very much in agreement with the Belgian centre-left liberal (in the European sense of the word), Dirk Verhofstadt. See: The Liberal Testament of Karl Popper.

Now believing in freedom of speech means respecting and protecting freedom to express opinions you don’t like or even detest.

Indeed it does, and it does so regardless of who is attacking freedom of speech. As I have written many times, this means I strongly support the freedom of speech of both fascists, Stalinists and Islamists. Trolls burst in sunlight, and with freedom of speech these morons expose themselves. Or make it loads easier for me to expose them. Freedom of speech, therefore, is the VBs worst enemy.

When it comes to taxes, I do not see the point of going into a lengthy polemic.

As I stated I believe a welfare state is a good thing and that taxes are - as such - necessary. Ideally, taxes should be 0%, but in the real world we all have to deal with conflicting ideals and Utopias that don't match up. Since I'm not the Daily Kos, and have hardly ever read it (except for following links to really stupid and horrifyingly anti-Semitic stuff), I can't say I feel any urge to defend the writers there. If you want to criticise me, don't spend your time criticising someone else in my place.

To sum it all up: if you recognize the evil inherent in your political agenda and absolutely shocked that your co-leftists don’t

I believe all political ideologies - whether left, right or centre - have a potential for extremism, dogmatism and corruption. So does - by the way - most of my leftist friends. My own political "agenda" is influenced by this belief.

if you raised your voice to guard political speech from blatant assaults by your co-leftists and Islamists

I have written a number of articles on this topic (as well as on totalitarianism within Islam), both in English and in Norwegian. If your "research" had been something more than repeating complete bullshit from web sites attempting at discrediting LGFs understandable scepticism towards the VB, you could have found all of this through just one click away: Google.

But don't worry, the apology is accepted.

675 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 11:53:11am

re: #669 oslogin

Please note that I do not immediately accept all the evidence for the fascism of the VB that Charles have presented on LGF. Most of it is solid. Some is rather circumstancial, and dependant on not always equally solid translations from Dutch or other languages. When it comes to "De beest", which I tipped Charles about, it is a good example of a small piece of information which smells very foul when in context; but which can be explained away when not. It caused quite some reaction in Belgian media, because they've got context.

When it comes to the video from the book fair, which I had not seen before today (and which I have only been able to watch without sound), I think Charles might be reading too much into it. His general analysis of the VB as fascist, and of Voorpost as a "European tribal nationalist militia" is - however- spot on.

Please also note that I have not referred to the Vlaams Belang as Nazi, but as "eurofascist". In my eyes, eurofascism differs quite a bit from Nazism, just like socalled eurocommunism differs from Stalinism. Like any other ideology, fascism has not been standing still for the last 60 years. Also, European fascism in the 1920s-1940s was so much more than Hitlerism. Many people have a tendency to forget that.

I agree, some of the evidence I've presented is circumstantial. But that doesn't mean it's worthless; every bit of information adds something to the overall picture, whether or not it's overwhelmingly convincing by itself. And the overall picture, as you say, is that the Vlaams Belang is a neo-fascist organization with many, many connections to overtly neo-Nazi and white/tribal nationalist groups.

I don't call the VB a neo-Nazi group; they're too smart to allow themselves to be labeled as such, but at the same time, too dumb to be able to hide their fascist leanings.

The people who continue to avert their eyes and defend the Vlaams Belang and other Eurofascists are in deep denial. It's not possible to honestly argue that all of this is simply one huge series of meaningless coincidences -- but that's what they're doing.

676 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:43:10pm

re: #675 Charles

The people who continue to avert their eyes and defend the Vlaams Belang and other Eurofascists are in deep denial. It's not possible to honestly argue that all of this is simply one huge series of meaningless coincidences -- but that's what they're doing.

Indeed it is. Of course, I did not expect much more from many of these people. Having researched this for years, I have seen too many things being explained as coincidences too often for it to actually be a coincidence. It ranges from willful blindness to actual support. In some cases, it is also a question of keeping supporters.

I also agree that even circumstancial evidence is of value. After all, a heap of dung does smell like dung.

That said, having reviewed the video above - this time with sound - I will have to point out that the translation provided by Twenglish is not very accurate, and that the visored caps are not quite as telling as they could be. I believe the first bookseller must come from Katholiek Vlaams Hoogstudenten Verbond (KVHV), an organisation which combines radical Flemish nationalism (nativism) with Catholic ideals.

Later on the book "Vu de droite" ("The view of the right") is mentioned. This is a work written by Alain de Benoist, a philosopher who has contributed strongly to modern-day European fascist thinking. In many ways, that is the most interesting part and revealing part of the video.

677 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:20:49pm

re: #676 oslogin

... having reviewed the video above - this time with sound - I will have to point out that the translation provided by Twenglish is not very accurate, and that the visored caps are not quite as telling as they could be. I believe the first bookseller must come from Katholiek Vlaams Hoogstudenten Verbond (KVHV), an organisation which combines radical Flemish nationalism (nativism) with Catholic ideals.

Later on the book "Vu de droite" ("The view of the right") is mentioned. This is a work written by Alain de Benoist, a philosopher who has contributed strongly to modern-day European fascist thinking. In many ways, that is the most interesting part and revealing part of the video.

Interesting indeed. If you'd care to provide a better translation with more context, I'll update the post with it.

678 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:55:57pm

re: #677 Charles

Interesting indeed. If you'd care to provide a better translation with more context, I'll update the post with it.

The sound is awful, but this is what I can pick up.

FDW: Where is the president (here)?
(Shakes hands with man, greets him)

At 0:50 in the video, FDW says "Vu de droite", and a book is also shown. This is most definitely Alain de Benoist's book; compare with the cover found on Amazon.fr. This seems to be the same book FDW is holding when he speaks with the bookseller.

FDW: Have you already read this one, Andries?
Andries: But no, I am an illiterate human being, ey?
FDW: (Laughts). Well, well. Is this your magazine?
Andries: Yes. Yes.

The last two sentences seem pretty clear to me, the subtitles in French also match; FDW asks whether it is their magazine ("blad"), and gets a positive reply. This is translated differently by Twenglish above.

"Vu de droite" was discussed in this article in NY Review of Books, 1980. An excerpt:

De Benoist claims that the central issues of the traditional right, among them genetics, race, and inequality, have been discredited by their association with Nazism, and he tries to give them new life by grafting them on to such subsciences as sociobiology and ethnology. De Benoist is particularly attracted to sociobiology, which has recently gained an enthusiastic hearing in France. But he has a tendency to present the hypotheses of sociobiology as proven conclusions and then to extend these "conclusions" to far-ranging fields. For example, he writes, "all politics today implies a biopolitics." And he cites with enthusiasm the words of Professor Robert Mallet, the chancellor of the Universities of Paris, that some day "the genetic code will help inform the civil codes."

679 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:58:58pm

re: #678 oslogin

The sound is awful, but this is what I can pick up.

FDW: Where is the president (here)?
(Shakes hands with man, greets him)

At 0:50 in the video, FDW says "Vu de droite", and a book is also shown. This is most definitely Alain de Benoist's book; compare with the cover found on Amazon.fr. This seems to be the same book FDW is holding when he speaks with the bookseller.

FDW: Have you already read this one, Andries?
Andries: But no, I am an illiterate human being, ey?
FDW: (Laughts). Well, well. Is this your magazine?
Andries: Yes. Yes.

The last two sentences seem pretty clear to me, the subtitles in French also match; FDW asks whether it is their magazine ("blad"), and gets a positive reply. This is translated differently by Twenglish above.

"Vu de droite" was discussed in this article in NY Review of Books, 1980. An excerpt:

De Benoist claims that the central issues of the traditional right, among them genetics, race, and inequality, have been discredited by their association with Nazism, and he tries to give them new life by grafting them on to such subsciences as sociobiology and ethnology. De Benoist is particularly attracted to sociobiology, which has recently gained an enthusiastic hearing in France. But he has a tendency to present the hypotheses of sociobiology as proven conclusions and then to extend these "conclusions" to far-ranging fields. For example, he writes, "all politics today implies a biopolitics." And he cites with enthusiasm the words of Professor Robert Mallet, the chancellor of the Universities of Paris, that some day "the genetic code will help inform the civil codes."

Thanks very much! I will update the post.

De Benoist is pushing a variation of eugenics.

680 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:03:09pm

re: #677 Charles

And, oh, it is also interesting that de Benoist is a self-declared

681 Øyvind Strømmen  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:06:00pm

re: #679 Charles

First and foremost, he is pushing an "academic" version of the racial hatred of earlier fascism. This academic touch allows him to pass himself off as "New Right", as opposed to "Old Right". Most right-wingers I know would be quite offended with both kinds.

682 AlexD  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 4:08:41am

Sorry, man, you don't have to accept my apology since there is none. I asked three simple questions which answers would really prove if you believe or not in things you say you believe. And your answers pretty much show you don't.

When it comes to taxes, I do not see the point of going into a lengthy polemic.

As I stated I believe a welfare state is a good thing and that taxes are - as such - necessary. Ideally, taxes should be 0%, but in the real world we all have to deal with conflicting ideals and Utopias that don't match up. Since I'm not the Daily Kos, and have hardly ever read it (except for following links to really stupid and horrifyingly anti-Semitic stuff), I can't say I feel any urge to defend the writers there. If you want to criticize me, don't spend your time criticizing someone else in my place.

Once again taxes per se have nothing to do with the issue at hand. "Welfare state" does, or more clearly the idea that state should take money away from rich to disseminate it to poor. That agenda may come out of morals (special sympathy to the poor or something like that) or from other not so honorable motives. The sign of morals will be feeling of guilt from forcefully depraving people from their rightfully earned money, recognition that it is bad. Not only there's none of this in leftist circles but there is a certain despisal towards "rich" and sheer hatred of those who oppose this agenda. It's all one needs to know to decide whether they really feel that robbing rich is an evil thing. I asked you to find one clearly leftist site that that shows such guilt or uneasiness (not necessarily DK). You can't because there is none. Nobody on your side really feels that depraving people of their money to impose your nuanced social agenda is bad. And neither do you (despite your words), because otherwise you would be taken aback by this absence of any humility and modesty in deciding how to spend other people's money.

683 AlexD  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 4:10:41am
Yup, and yes - that does mean that I find it deeply troubling when people are not allowed that freedom or when people attack it. Regardless of who the attackers and who the victims are. In this regards I am very much in agreement with the Belgian centre-left liberal (in the European sense of the word), Dirk Verhofstadt. See: The Liberal Testament of Karl Popper.

Words and nothing but words. In our time there is one force in the world that really, on deed denies the freedom of religion - Islam. All countries that execute (or punish otherwise) those who leave their religion are islamic. All multiple non-government gangs which do the same thing are islamic. All non affiliated people who made news threatening with murder to apostates are islamic. And the they explain their actions they point to highest authority in Islam - quaran and direct command by their prophet "whoever changes his religion, kill him". That is not to say all muslims feel that way, but nearly all the people who feel that way are muslims and even if such people are 5% of all Muslims that is enough to completely screw freedom of religion in the ares they immigrate to give the numbers in which they migrating. So how in such a situation would a "deeply troubled" person react? He would press hard on Muslim groups to address these issues, to reform problematic aspects of Islam in order to remove religious intolerance inherited in it and present real challenge to jihadist propaganda, he would fight hard that no part of SA or Iran emerge in western world and decline in islamic world. He would be Robert Spencer in other words. So what you do? You concentrate your efforts on targeting people who do not even remotely, in quality and scope, act like Islamists and do not remotely present the same danger to freedom of religion as islamists. Is this your words “So, here’s the deal: An increasing number of Europeans will be Muslim. Deal with it.”;"Instead of worrying about Islamofascism, European politicians should worry about not-so-good, old-fashioned European fascism". Sorry you don’t care about freedom of religion, you just care about targeting you historical and ideological foes.

684 AlexD  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 4:11:36am
Indeed it does, and it does so regardless of who is attacking freedom of speech.

The only people who attacking it now days are Muslim organizations (and I mean mainstream Muslim groups like Organization of Islamic Conference with their “red lines that should not be crossed”) radical islamists and political leftists with opinion “hate crime” laws, “Human Rights Commissions”, Fairness Doctrines and on and on. The racist fascists would also attack it if they have a chance, they don’t. Did you wrote articles specifically denouncing Fairness Doctrine, opinion “hate crimes” persecution (specifically Brigitte Bardot persecution), HRC and the ongoing campaign by Muslim groups and countries to stiffen all criticism of Islam? I tried to google “strommen” and every one of these words and found no articles. I went to your blog eurofascism.info and found nothing as well.

685 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 9:37:53am

re: #684 AlexD

What's your purpose here? You're making an empty argument that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion. It's meaningless to insist that because Strømmen hasn't written about the things you're obsessed about, that proves he's wrong about the Vlaams Belang -- not only meaningless, but deceptive.

Again, what is your purpose? If you're trying to promote the view that 'anti-jihad' writers and bloggers should overlook the fact that VB is a fascist group, you're not going to get very far with that here. Others have made the decision to allow fascists to pollute and destroy their message -- I won't.

686 Øyvind Strømmen  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 12:29:06pm
I tried to google “strommen” and every one of these words and found no articles.

Congrats. Now try using my real name.

Or don't. Because your goal is already apparent enough: you want to make the point that the VB is "not even remotely, in quality and scope" anything like Islamists (and consequently no one should spend time criticising them, and instead opt for the same monomania you sport).

Problem is: The VB is a modern-day fascist party. Their goals are not freedom of speech (or even freedom of language), not freedom of religion, not universal human rights and not a truly democratic society. And they gain 20-30% of the votes in certain parts of Flanders. Let me know when any Islamist grouping does the same.

(Btw, terrorism inspired by fascist thinking is no unknown phenomenon, neither in the States, nor in Europe).


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