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Vlaams Belang: Friends of Israel?

World | Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:25:36 pm PST

As some well-known bloggers and writers continue to defend the Belgian neo-fascist party Vlaams Belang, here’s an interview with former Vlaams Belang president Frank Vanhecke, in which he claims to be a best friend of Jews and Israel: Belgian far right leader: I am one of Israel’s staunchest defenders.

At Belgium’s request, the European Parliament is expected next month to lift the immunity of one of its members, a former leader of the rightist Vlaams Belang party, exposing him to racism charges. Describing himself as a victim of blatant persecution, Frank Vanhecke told Haaretz the decision could spell his “political death.”

In the interview, Vanhecke countered claims that Vlaams Belang is anti-Semitic, calling them “unjust and untrue,” pointing to his record of cooperation with Antwerp’s Jewish community and standing up for Israel in the European Parliament. ...

With a hint of frustration in his voice, Vanhecke adds: “They say I’m antisemitic when the truth is I am one of Israel’s staunchest defenders in the European Parliament. I invite you to read my queries to the European Parliament concerning its unjust treatment of Israel, and about the support the same parliament is giving to Palestinian murderers.”

Vanhecke went on to say he thinks of himself as “a defender of Israel and of the Jewish people,” adding: “Israel stands for the spirit that we stand for; liberty and self-determination.

Unfortunately for Vanhecke’s story, the Jewish Belgian Association isn’t buying one word of it. Here’s a Google-translated article in their magazine, Joods Actuel (Jewish News), denouncing the Vlaams Belang for their many links to Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis of one stripe or another, and responding to a letter from VB leader Filip DeWinter. The translation’s not great, but their disdain for the Vlaams Belang is evident:

Jewish News Response to letter of Filip Dewinter

Dear Mr. Dewinter,

You say “surprised” to have been the article last month in Jewish News. I would like my own - and that of many fellow believers - amazement and dismay even willing to share with you about decisions and actions of you and your party. We have drawn up a list of the ten most flagrant of them.

From the VB are always justifications and arguments that have to prove that the party is not anti-Semitic. There are too many events and serious facts to make this credible.

I know personally as members of the Vlaams Belang, which Israel and the Jews wear a high priority. They assure me that you’re certainly not anti-Semite. One argument that I too would like to accept. But it is up to you to do this to prove, it is up to you to draw a clear line. Behavior that is unacceptable must not be longer be tolerated or minimized. It is time for this to mention by name and fully away from it.

You claim in Lommel are going to argue because the then mayor had refused access to German families. Why you just feel called to defend German families is a question aside. From TV pictures is to see that German relatives were admitted. There interrogated by Jewish News, is a former mayor Louis Vanvelthoven formal, he speaks your version of the facts against. So this is word against word. But this discussion is not what is at stake. The heirs to the whole affair is that you and Gerolf Annemans troepten together with a crowd of neo-Nazis of the worst kind. You literally stood shoulder to shoulder with skinheads who unceremoniously uitbrachten the Hitler greeting. As a politician you know only too well the impact of such images. Just above his apology necessary.

Your comment that I just Jewish youth outside the European civilization instead, is, I must admit, underhanded attempt. Of course I stand by my position: the Jews are a perfect example of how different cultures can live and next to each other. Why was sixty years ago Judaism in Europe almost completely eradicated? Not because we as a part of European culture, we are integrated but not necessarily assimilated.

Finally, I wish to add that those who seek a pro-Jewish attitude is trying to combine with intolerance against any other population group, clearly did not understand what Jewish life means, and does not realize how much this ambiguous attitude that goes diametrically against.
Sincerely,

Michael Zevi Freilich
Editor

The misgivings of the Jewish Belgian Association are not the only reason to doubt Vanhecke’s pro-Israel statements. Here’s a photograph taken in May of 2007 at the funeral of Vlaams Blok founder Karel Dillen, showing Vlaams Blok/Belang leaders Filip DeWinter and Frank Vanhecke, with French National Front leaders Jean-Marie Le Pen and Bruno Gollnisch. Follow the links to learn more about these people; in the backgrounds of Gollnisch, Le Pen, and Karel Dillen, there’s a common discordant note: Holocaust denial and/or “minimizing.”

6 months ago: (From L to R) Actual Far-right party Vlaams Belang leader Filip Dewinter, FN number 2 Bruno Gollnisch, Vlaams Belang president Frank Vanhecke and French far-right National Front (FN) leader and former presidential candidate Jean-Marie Le Pen attend the funeral of Karel Dillen, 81, founder of the Flemish far-right party Vlaams Blok (now Vlaams Belang) 05 May 2007, in Antwerp

Here’s a video on the Jewish News story and their report titled “The 10 Main Sins of the Vlaams Belang:”

Youtube Video

A translation from LGF reader “superjan:”

Joods Actueel, a Jewish weekly in Antwerp attacks Filip de Winter and Vlaams Belang, in a report called “the 10 sins of Vlaams Belang” that shows that Vlaams Belang is still a party where antisemitism and sympathy for the nazi’s thrives.

Then the interview:

W:Your question to the party was very clear. Shouldn’t the party (VB) expel people?

M: That was not the question. The reason was a letter we got from Filip DeWinter in which he said, “The jewish community does not have to be scared for Vlaams Belang, vote for us we are your best friends. VB is joined with the jews in a war against islam.”

W: But then you investigated?

M: Yes, then we investigated that. Is this the truth? And then we found a number of facts. We saw people of Vlaams Belang that give the Hitler salute that are still welcome in the party, and that people of Vlaams Belang go to Nazi meetings in Austria or buy and sell Nazi books.

And then we said, Mister DeWinter if you really want to be our friend we ask of you some elementary politeness. Then you can’t tolerate people bringing the Hitler salute or people going to Nazi meetings. Get rid of them. And give us your excuse for their behaviour. Only after that we can start talking. As long as you don’t get rid of those people you are deceiving us. You can’t say you are our friend when you have Holocaust deniers in your party.

W: But are you going to be active against VB in Joods Actueel now?

M: i think we already did with our investigation. But we are not going to give VB too much attention.

W: But DeWinter shouldn’t say he is a friend of the Jews?

Laughter.

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742 comments

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1 gop_patriot  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:28:51pm

And there it is, laid out yet again, with perfect clarity for those who would see.

2 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:29:09pm

With friends like these...

3 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:30:26pm

I only hope Obama is the friend to Israel he claims to be. Looks like there's all sorts of political mileage to be gained from the claim - whether true or not.

4 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:31:02pm

Lemme see if I get this:

VB claims to be "staunch" supporters of Israel.

It's the nation of Israel against the greater enemy, Islam. The Jews themselves, not so much.

5 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:31:12pm

Charles,

Thanks for exposing these creeps for who (and what) they really are.

6 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:32:20pm

"And then we said, Mister DeWinter if you really want to be our friend we ask of you some elementary politeness. Then you can’t tolerate people bringing the Hitler salute or people going to Nazi meetings. Get rid of them."

Who is going to say this to Robert Spencer?

7 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:33:22pm

re: #2 Spiny Norman

With friends like these...

...who needs enemas?

8 midwestgak  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:33:46pm

re: #3 Daisy

I only hope Obama is the friend to Israel he claims to be. Looks like there's all sorts of political mileage to be gained from the claim - whether true or not.

He will crouch his distain for Israel very carefully. He is no friend to them.

9 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:33:49pm

Vanhecke's blessing for the Jews is like the Rabbi's blessing for the Tsar in Fiddler on the Roof: "May God bless them and keep them... far away from Europe!"

10 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:35:15pm

re: #3 Daisy

I only hope Obama is the friend to Israel he claims to be. Looks like there's all sorts of political mileage to be gained from the claim - whether true or not.

Lots of political mileage to be gained from the claim, which is why he will repeat the claim over and over, even as he's acting to undermine Israel's security.

11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:35:53pm

Hitler, Himmler, Mengele, et al, were all friends of the Jews also. Those ovens we all saw at Auschwitz? That was were they prepared the meals for their "friends".

//////

12 Outrider  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:36:20pm

re: #4 Spiny Norman

Lemme see if I get this:

VB claims to be "staunch" supporters of Israel.

It's the nation of Israel against the greater enemy, Islam. The Jews themselves, not so much.

I suspect he supports Israel in the context of all European Jews going there. Then, in the context of fighting Islam. But, the Nazis and Muslims were allied a time or two. Damn, these guys can spin the damnedest convoluted webs.

13 Irish Rose  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:36:50pm

... paying attention here, Robert?

14 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:38:04pm
VB is joined with the jews in a war against islam

Excuse me, but we didn't land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us, so to speak.

Jews are not at war with Islam, Islam is at war with, well, all Infidels.

We don't need your help.

Don't confuse Jewish nationalism with your nationalism.

15 dhg4  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:39:03pm

Before he went off the deep end, Patrick Buchanan was a staunch supporter of Israel. Even relatively recently, I believe, he's written how he once was a big supporter of Menachem Begin. That might have been the case in 1982; I don't think it's true now.

16 ryannon  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:39:38pm

6 months ago: (From L to R) Actual Far-right party Vlaams Belang leader Filip Dewinter, FN number 2 Bruno Gollnisch, Vlaams Belang president Frank Vanhecke and French far-right National Front (FN) leader and former presidential candidate Jean-Marie Le Pen attend the funeral of Karel Dillen, 81, founder of the Flemish far-right party Vlaams Blok (now Vlaams Belang) 05 May 2007, in Antwerp


Dead or alive, the recurrent European nightmare.

17 Athos  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:40:05pm

re: #1 gop_patriot

And there it is, laid out yet again, with perfect clarity for those who would see.

You are assuming that they will believe what they see as opposed to seeing only what they want to believe.

18 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:40:15pm

re: #12 Outrider

".. But, the Nazis and Muslims were allied a time or two. Damn, these guys can spin the damnedest convoluted webs.

They were allied as long as they didn't have to tolerate living next to each other. Supremacists are like that; they don't like sharing.

19 Shug  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:40:20pm

re: #11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Hitler, Himmler, Mengele, et al, were all friends of the Jews also. Those ovens we all saw at Auschwitz? That was were they prepared the meals for their "friends".

//////

They only murdered the zionists

/

20 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:41:47pm

Thanks for continuing to expose these people, Charles.

21 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:41:52pm

re: #12 Outrider

I suspect he supports Israel in the context of all European Jews going there.

Indeed...and using the existence of Israel as justification for a white 'nationalistic' agenda.

22 galloping granny  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:42:07pm

As I recall, the SS were "friends of Israel" for a while too. Even allowed some practice farming in preparation for aliyah.

23 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:42:40pm

re: #6 Daisy

"And then we said, Mister DeWinter if you really want to be our friend we ask of you some elementary politeness. Then you can’t tolerate people bringing the Hitler salute or people going to Nazi meetings. Get rid of them."

Who is going to say this to Robert Spencer?

Hopefully he's lurking, but I doubt he's listening.

24 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:43:39pm

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Unless he's my enemy.

25 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:44:48pm

If VB "supports Israel' this is some support Israel doesn't need.

If I had to guess, if they "support" Israel at all it is because they believe the lies that Israel is a monoethnic, country based on racial preferences. (ie: they bought all the "Israel is an Apartheid State" crap, and actually like it)

26 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:44:54pm

re: #24 Racer X

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Unless he's my enemy.

Or, until he's my enemy. Which, inevitably, he will be.

27 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:44:55pm

Cool, juperjan is a hatchling born today I believe. Charles is already soliciting meaningful contributions from new posters. I'm not holding out hope for E... though. Ha!

28 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:45:43pm

I guess Pamela would call them Jewicidal Jews.

29 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:46:05pm

re: #25 WrathofG-d

If VB "supports Israel' this is some support Israel doesn't need.

If I had to guess, if they "support" Israel at all it is because they believe the lies that Israel is a monoethnic, country based on racial preferences. (ie: they bought all the "Israel is an Apartheid State" crap, and actually like it)

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

30 fish  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:46:09pm

Hasn't the election of O taught you people anything? We can no longer judge a person or group by their actions, associations or statements they make when they think they are off the record. The ONLY thing that counts is the public official statements. VB has SAID they aren't nazi's so we should just accept that and stop bothering them with all these annoying facts.

31 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:46:40pm

One can indeed be honored by the enemies he collects.
One can also be damned by his choice of allies.

32 Buck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:46:43pm

Charles, I have learned to trust your instincts.

Wolf: I wear the sheep's clothing because I support the sheep. I am against all the things sheep are against (except wolves of course). I often invite sheep over for dinner.

Well, not all the sheep are still behaving very sheep like.

33 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:47:07pm

re: #25 WrathofG-d

If VB "supports Israel' this is some support Israel doesn't need.

If I had to guess, if they "support" Israel at all it is because they believe the lies that Israel is a monoethnic, country based on racial preferences. (ie: they bought all the "Israel is an Apartheid State" crap, and actually like it)

I think it's simpler. I think they're lying.

34 midwestgak  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:47:49pm

re: #27 turn

Cool, juperjan is a hatchling born today I believe. Charles is already soliciting meaningful contributions from new posters. I'm not holding out hope for E... though. Ha!

Welcome juperjan! Good post. Just like America, it's the people's contributions at LGF which makes it great.

35 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:47:54pm

re: #19 Shug

They only murdered the zionists

/

It wasn't murder, it was "Final Solution of the Jewish Question". Sounds much nicer, and not as messy, huh?

/

36 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:47:55pm

6 Daisy
11/10/08 1:32:20 pm reply quote
0
"And then we said, Mister DeWinter if you really want to be our friend we ask of you some elementary politeness. Then you can’t tolerate people bringing the Hitler salute or people going to Nazi meetings. Get rid of them."

Who is going to say this to Robert Spencer?


I say: Robert Spencer is not a supprter or defender of Vlaams Belang. His statement is that he believes reasonable people can differ on the subject.

You may not agree with him on that, but we need to be fair. He has never said he supports VB and I wouldn't classify his discussions of them as being a defense either.

37 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:48:39pm

re: #28 Pastorius

I guess Pamela would call them Jewicidal Jews.

I really haven't been following the rift between her and Charles all that closely. WTF is her problem, surely she sees the many documented associations between VB and the neo-natzis but chooses to not condemn them.

38 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:48:42pm

Robert's attacks are getting increasingly personal.

39 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:48:54pm

re: #33 Daisy

I think it's simpler. I think they're lying.

Occam's Razor would give you an up-ding.
Since it can't, I will.

40 Maximu§  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:49:07pm

Israeli has only one friend and thats the Christian's of the world.

41 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:49:17pm

re: #1 gop_patriot

And there it is, laid out yet again, with perfect clarity for those who would see.

I think the GoV and Atlas do see, but they choose to ignore. I think Robert is likewise.

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:50:26pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Robert's attacks are getting increasingly personal.

I haven't paid a lick of attention. What's "happening" there? What's driving him?

43 gegenkritik  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:50:41pm

Actually, this isn't contradictory.
These right-wing extremists see Israel (only) as a bulwark against Islam, but are still Anti-Semites, who hate Jews outside Israel, especially those living in Belgium, Netherlands and so on.
Their "solidarity" with Israel is based upon their own projections on the jewish state, similiar to those in Germany in the 1960's, when the IDF was viewed by many Germans as the "Wehrmacht in the Middle East" who defeated their enemies in a "Blitzkrieg" - which was seriously meant as a compliment.
This kind of "solidarity" will vanish very soon, because for the Anti-Semite, the belief that it is the Jews who "controls the world" is indispensable and eventually, this ressentment will openly aim on Israel again.

The best and real solidarity for Israel is the one from the United States and I am sure, Obama can't change this.

44 unclassifiable  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:50:53pm

It's just VB doing that "big tent" thing. They have friends of Jews, enemies of Jews, and folks who don't even know what Jews are.

What a welcoming friendly party they are!

/getting out hip waders

45 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:51:24pm

37 turn
11/10/08 1:48:39 pm reply quote
0
re: #28 Pastorius

I guess Pamela would call them Jewicidal Jews.

I really haven't been following the rift between her and Charles all that closely. WTF is her problem, surely she sees the many documented associations between VB and the neo-natzis but chooses to not condemn them.


I say: Don't ask me. I don't get it.

46 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:51:27pm

re: #33 Daisy


Probably. Or they like Israel because "heh! that is where the Jews belong...over there and not here".

But I have on numerous occasions heard Neo-Nazis and the like hold Israel up as their ideal of a country for "one race". They point to what they perceive Israel is, then say that that should be the standard for whatever country they are in. Ie: Israel for Jews only, and the United States for Whites only.

47 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:51:37pm

re: #42 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I haven't paid a lick of attention. What's "happening" there? What's driving him?

He's pissed off that Charles won't toe the "VB is our friends" line of bullshit. I agree with Charles. The VB and other assorted, similar groups are not our friends in the anti-jihad.

48 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:51:57pm

re: #42 pre-Boomer Marine brat
He's very pissed at Charles for not embracing Vlaams Belang and its supporters into the anti-Jihad movement.

49 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:52:41pm

re: #43 gegenkritik

I updinged your post, very insightful.

50 Athos  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:52:45pm

re: #36 Pastorius

6 Daisy
11/10/08 1:32:20 pm reply quote
0
"And then we said, Mister DeWinter if you really want to be our friend we ask of you some elementary politeness. Then you can’t tolerate people bringing the Hitler salute or people going to Nazi meetings. Get rid of them."

Who is going to say this to Robert Spencer?


I say: Robert Spencer is not a supprter or defender of Vlaams Belang. His statement is that he believes reasonable people can differ on the subject.

You may not agree with him on that, but we need to be fair. He has never said he supports VB and I wouldn't classify his discussions of them as being a defense either.

Of course, he only supports VB in such that they are opposing the jihad....any other implication or impression of support is merely coincidental.....

Basically, that's Robert's effort to distance himself from VB and the other euro-fascists. Sorry, but I don't think we are being unfair by condemning him for that weasely qualification. These groups seek respectability. They are using their position against jihad as the crutch for that respectability. I have no problem standing against jihad and standing against euro-fascism and nationalism. This isn't two different issues - but shades of the same issue....the need to fight fascism.

51 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:53:10pm

re: #47 Honorary Yooper

He's pissed off that Charles won't toe the "VB is our friends" line of bullshit. I agree with Charles. The VB and other assorted, similar groups are not our friends in the anti-jihad.

I know.

My wonderment was about the "increasingly personal" nature of his attacks. Is he coming unhinged? Literally?

52 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:53:21pm

re: #40 Maximu§

Israeli has only one friend and thats the Christian's of the world.

Or to paraphrase Harry Truman: "If you want a friend, get a dog".

53 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:53:27pm

re: #45 Pastorius


That makes at least two of us ...

54 midwestgak  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:53:30pm

re: #43 gegenkritik

The best and real solidarity for Israel is the one from the United States and I am sure, Obama can't change this.

I wish I was sure. It only takes a few people in high places to make a few decisions. Just like that. And painted with a smiley face.

55 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:53:44pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

He's very pissed at Charles for not embracing Vlaams Belang and its supporters into the anti-Jihad movement.

Yeah
See my #51

56 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:54:16pm

OT- Anyone else not seeing avatars?
And, while we're at it, anyone seeing dead people?

57 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:54:43pm

re: #36 Pastorius

6 Daisy
11/10/08 1:32:20 pm reply quote
0
"And then we said, Mister DeWinter if you really want to be our friend we ask of you some elementary politeness. Then you can’t tolerate people bringing the Hitler salute or people going to Nazi meetings. Get rid of them."

Who is going to say this to Robert Spencer?


I say: Robert Spencer is not a supprter or defender of Vlaams Belang. His statement is that he believes reasonable people can differ on the subject.

You may not agree with him on that, but we need to be fair. He has never said he supports VB and I wouldn't classify his discussions of them as being a defense either.

I appreciate your invitation but don't feel a pressing a need to be 'fair' in this matter.

58 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:55:04pm

re: #51 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I know.

My wonderment was about the "increasingly personal" nature of his attacks. Is he coming unhinged? Literally?

Quite possibly. He's now letting The F-Bomb (Fjordman) have his screeds on Jihad and Dhimmi Watch again.

59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:55:06pm

re: #56 wolfie


And, while we're at it, anyone seeing dead people?

Nah, they went back to sleep after the election.

60 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:55:37pm

re: #56 wolfie

OT- Anyone else not seeing avatars?
And, while we're at it, anyone seeing dead people?

No avatars here.
Edgar went belly-up a few threads ago.

61 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:55:39pm

#50 Athos,

Did Spencer say he supports VB as much as they oppose the Jihad, or did he say he doesn't support VB, but that he believes reasonable people can differ on whether or not they are anti-Semitic.

I read him say the latter, not the former.

62 Athos  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:03pm

re: #37 turn

I really haven't been following the rift between her and Charles all that closely. WTF is her problem, surely she sees the many documented associations between VB and the neo-natzis but chooses to not condemn them.

Pamela only sees her hatred of the jihad. She doesn't see Europe fighting - and welcomes that these groups say they will fight. She is not looking beyond that or that her acceptance of these groups weakens her moral argument.

63 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:08pm

re: #56 wolfie

OT- Anyone else not seeing avatars?
And, while we're at it, anyone seeing dead people?

No, the avatars are disabled for ease of loading. And yes, I see dead people every election day in Cook County.

64 unclassifiable  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:14pm

Spencer is still stuck in the nationality = culture thing. I have said that the U.S. does not have a single culture as much as it has a deep and abiding respect for our Constitution and especially the our Bill of Rights.

This is disappointing because his writings outside of this sphere are spot on but everyone in this thing loses face if we chose to align ourselves with fascists.

65 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:20pm

re: #46 WrathofG-d

Probably. Or they like Israel because "heh! that is where the Jews belong...over there and not here".

But I have on numerous occasions heard Neo-Nazis and the like hold Israel up as their ideal of a country for "one race". They point to what they perceive Israel is, then say that that should be the standard for whatever country they are in. Ie: Israel for Jews only, and the United States for Whites only.

Hatred certainly does have a way of distorting reality, doesn't it?

66 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:29pm

re: #60 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No avatars here.
Edgar went belly-up a few threads ago.

Edgar get the ban stick? Wow.

67 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:31pm

re: #58 Honorary Yooper

Quite possibly. He's now letting The F-Bomb (Fjordman) have his screeds on Jihad and Dhimmi Watch again.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

68 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:56:50pm
69 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:57:11pm

Something Israel and the World REALLY should worry about:

IAEA: There Is Evidence of Syrian Nuclear Developement

70 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:57:12pm

re: #60 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No avatars here.
Edgar went belly-up a few threads ago.

You battled long and well against creeping Edgar-ism today, Marine brat. You get a cookie. ;-)

71 islaminaction  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:57:16pm

Obama will be to the US as the Labour Party is to th UK.
Mass immigration, endless handouts, and catering to Islam. He will not stand with Israel.

72 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:57:32pm

re: #61 Pastorius

He's become an active defender of VB. He claims Charles' evidence is fabricated.

73 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:57:36pm

re: #56 wolfie

OT- Anyone else not seeing avatars?
And, while we're at it, anyone seeing dead people?

Remember when Obama (the great speaker) said that they were there to honor fallen soldiers, and he saw many of them in the crowd?

74 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:58:01pm

re: #66 Honorary Yooper

Edgar get the ban stick? Wow.

No No No. (unfortunately)

We just got the better of him.
He shut up and "went home".

75 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:58:38pm

re: #70 Intrepid

You battled long and well against creeping Edgar-ism today, Marine brat. You get a cookie. ;-)

*blush*
Thank you!

76 galloping granny  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:58:44pm

re: #64 unclassifiable

Spencer is still stuck in the nationality = culture thing. I have said that the U.S. does not have a single culture as much as it has a deep and abiding respect for our Constitution and especially the our Bill of Rights.

This is disappointing because his writings outside of this sphere are spot on but everyone in this thing loses face if we chose to align ourselves with fascists.

Well of course we don't have a single culture. We don't even have a single culture in New England. The culture of a Down East fisherman from Maine and an old time Vermonter are as different from the culture of southern Connecticut as the earth is from the moon.

77 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:59:07pm

re: #74 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No No No. (unfortunately)

We just got the better of him.
He shut up and "went home".

How about his sockpuppet..er..buddy, John whatshisname?

78 Dianna  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 1:59:14pm

re: #60 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No avatars here.
Edgar went belly-up a few threads ago.

Oh, goody!

About bloody time!

79 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:00:18pm

re: #13 Irish Rose

... paying attention here, Robert?

I have no doubt he is, but doesn't care that much. They're "allies against the greater enemy", and that's that.

A great many people who had no love for the Fascists and Nazis threw in with them because they were the "only" anti-Bolshevik force. A Devil's bargain.

80 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:00:30pm

re: #62 Athos

Pamela only sees her hatred of the jihad. She doesn't see Europe fighting - and welcomes that these groups say they will fight. She is not looking beyond that or that her acceptance of these groups weakens her moral argument.

Simply put, my enemy's enemy is a friend of mind. Well if she doesn't see Europe fighting at least she got one thing right.

81 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:00:36pm

re: #68 buzzsawmonkey

I see it like that, but with one more twist: "Just as the Jews have their homeland, it is right for us to have ours."

82 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:00:50pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

He's become an active defender of VB. He claims Charles' evidence is fabricated.

Uh oh. That's an Awshit that wipes out a thousand Attaboys.

Thanks. I didn't know about that last.

83 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:00:55pm

re: #64 unclassifiable

I have said that the U.S. does not have a single culture as much as it has a deep and abiding respect for our Constitution and especially the our Bill of Rights.

Doesn't a shared respect for the Constitution define a central aspect of American culture?

84 gop_patriot  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:01:02pm

re: #17 Athos

You are assuming that they will believe what they see as opposed to seeing only what they want to believe.

I'm not expecting that they will admit to the facts before their faces at all, sadly, which is why I added that last part- "those who would see".

You are spot on about them only seeing what they want to believe. Well said.

85 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:01:47pm

re: #77 Honorary Yooper

How about his sockpuppet..er..buddy, John whatshisname?

He was there battling alongside Edgar and against Marine Brat and others, including a few spars with Charles.

I think he doubled his post total just today - from 30 something this morning (since July last year).

86 galloping granny  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:01:49pm

re: #83 stuiec

Doesn't a shared respect for the Constitution define a central aspect of American culture?

We don't even have a shared understanding of the Constitution, in case you hadn't noticed.

87 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:01:53pm

re: #66 Honorary Yooper

Edgar get the ban stick? Wow.

Charles whacked E... today, really?

88 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:01:57pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

He's become an active defender of VB. He claims Charles' evidence is fabricated.

Kinda hard to keep that defense up now, isn't it?

89 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:01:59pm

re: #77 Honorary Yooper

How about his sockpuppet..er..buddy, John whatshisname?

They both shut up.

90 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:02:19pm
91 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:02:32pm

re: #78 Dianna

Oh, goody!

About bloody time!

He wasn't banned.
He wasn't banned.
Sorry if I gave that impression!

92 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:02:52pm

re: #74 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No No No. (unfortunately)

We just got the better of him.
He shut up and "went home".

You mean, like upstairs from the basement?

93 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:03:51pm

re: #87 turn

Charles whacked E... today, really?

NOT banned.
Merely silenced in a group whacking.

94 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:03:58pm

re: #69 WrathofG-d

Something Israel and the World REALLY should worry about:

IAEA: There Is Evidence of Syrian Nuclear Developement

ORLY?

/

95 Dianna  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:04:33pm

re: #91 pre-Boomer Marine brat

He wasn't banned.
He wasn't banned.
Sorry if I gave that impression!

Well, that's a bummer.

In the midst of all his whining at Mandy, he still hasn't ever apologized for flat out insulting me, pretty much right out of the starting gate. I don't live to see him banned, but it sure wouldn't break my heart.

96 unclassifiable  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:04:41pm

re: #83 stuiec

Doesn't a shared respect for the Constitution define a central aspect of American culture?

Well I don't think it does in any "classical" sense (religion, customs, traditions, etc.) but then again this country has never been much about following what is classical. It's always been about folks forging their own way. In that sense your argument has merit.

97 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:06:06pm

OT: Palin leaker confesses.....
Eisenstadt the source for Sarah Palin Africa leak… and proud of it.

So yes, to be clear, last week I was the one who leaked those things to a producer at Fox News who works with Cameron. Carl and his producers are good guys, and I don’t want them to have to worry about protecting their sources (and going through the wringer ala Judith Miller or Matt Cooper) on something like this.
....
Could she have passed a multiple choice test about South Africa or NAFTA. Probably. But it was clear that she simply didn’t have the ease of knowledge that we come to expect from a major party political candidate. Other slights came up, too: Not knowing the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas. Or the difference between the Shiites and Suni. Or when it came to international terrorist organizations, knowing that the IRA was in Northern Ireland, and ETA in Spain.

98 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:06:12pm

I traveled around Europe fairly extensively in the last few weeks.

Saw more Hare Krishnas than Muslims...

99 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:06:31pm

re: #93 pre-Boomer Marine brat

NOT banned.
Merely silenced in a group whacking.

That must have been the one earlier where I asked why everybody was feeding the troll and wasting precious bandwidth.

100 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:06:42pm

re: #36 Pastorius

Pastorious, let me add something. I really do appreciate your loyalty to Robert Spencer. On the other hand, if Robert is reading what's being posted here about VB (and he is) the 'reasonable people can differ' about whether or not VB is anti-Semitic, becomes bogus. I've had real admiration for R. Spencer and know from personal experience what a problem/obstacle pride can be. Here's hoping he drops some of his pride and comes back from the dark side.

101 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:06:46pm

re: #93 pre-Boomer Marine brat

NOT banned.
Merely silenced in a group whacking.

"Shouted down"? Oh noes! What about the 1st Amendment?!?

/

102 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:07:15pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

OT: Palin leaker confesses.....
Eisenstadt the source for Sarah Palin Africa leak… and proud of it.

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

HOAX.

103 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:07:28pm

re: #83 stuiec

Doesn't a shared respect for the Constitution define a central aspect of American culture?

Yeah, I would say we have an American culture. But not a nationality: no type of person that is an American that one could physically measure by our genes, our skin, our hair, or how long our families have been here.

104 Dartmouth  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:07:40pm

6,000 Muslim clerics sign fatwa against terrorism.

Better late than never (and it'd be nice to see some anti-terror fatwas coming from the Middle East). One can hope...

105 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:07:59pm

re: #95 Dianna

Well, that's a bummer.

In the midst of all his whining at Mandy, he still hasn't ever apologized for flat out insulting me, pretty much right out of the starting gate. I don't live to see him banned, but it sure wouldn't break my heart.

For what it's worth, Charles, SattTV4U and others managed to nail their squirmy butts to a specific issue. We got 'm on the issue, not invective.

106 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:08:29pm

re: #101 Spiny Norman

"Shouted down"? Oh noes! What about the 1st Amendment?!?

/

heh.....well, the government didn't do the shouting, so it's o.k. ;-)

107 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:08:59pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Robert's attacks are getting increasingly personal.

You're quite famous over at JW, too, Mr "Charles' sockpuppet".

;^)

108 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:09:01pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

OT: Palin leaker confesses.....
Eisenstadt the source for Sarah Palin Africa leak… and proud of it.

Could she have passed a multiple choice test about South Africa or NAFTA. Probably. But it was clear that she simply didn’t have the ease of knowledge that we come to expect from a major party political candidate. Other slights came up, too: Not knowing the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas. Or the difference between the Shiites and Suni. Or when it came to international terrorist organizations, knowing that the IRA was in Northern Ireland, and ETA in Spain.

ANd another thing, 90% of the house and senate couldn't answer any of these until they were finally asked just after 9/11.

109 fish  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:09:09pm

re: #83 stuiec

Doesn't a shared respect for the Constitution define a central aspect of American culture?

You know there are days when I question that shared respect for the Consitution. (Fairness doctrine, The crusade against gun rights, The idea that the Consitution is a living and evolving document, A VP-Elect who has a questionable understanding of the consitution...)

110 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:09:37pm

re: #95 Dianna

Well, that's a bummer.

In the midst of all his whining at Mandy, he still hasn't ever apologized for flat out insulting me, pretty much right out of the starting gate. I don't live to see him banned, but it sure wouldn't break my heart.

He also did likewise to Sharmuta. It was his "hypothetical" statement about Sharmuta that got him whining about Mandy. Edgar started it, and now he's bitching about it.

111 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:09:54pm

re: #94 Spiny Norman

what is ORLY?

112 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:10:24pm

re: #102 Ben Hur

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

HOAX.


www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

113 Athos  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:10:27pm

re: #61 Pastorius

#50 Athos,

Did Spencer say he supports VB as much as they oppose the Jihad, or did he say he doesn't support VB, but that he believes reasonable people can differ on whether or not they are anti-Semitic.

I read him say the latter, not the former.

Let's look at Robert's words specifically as reported by Walter L Newton who engaged in the email exchange with him:

Oh, he is interested in VB, but only the parts of VB that serves his purpose. As he emailed me and said...

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not implied." (Robert Spencer - email dated Sat 11/8/2008 10:39 AM)

Robert is unwilling to condemn them or their positions because they are willing to fight jihad. It is immaterial that there is no endorsement of the group for any other position as he is already providing them with respectability on the basis of the fight against jihad. So, apparently, it is moral to associate with euro-nationalist fascists to counter islamofascists.

I, and others it seems, find it unacceptable to provide VB and any of these similar groups with any respectability even though they are fighting jihad. We don't need them to win - but they need us in order to gain respectability.

As for Robert - it is not dissimilar to the exercise in logic when a man asks a beautiful woman if she will sleep with him for $10 million dollars and she says yes....then the man asks if she will sleep with him for $100. Exasperated, the woman exclaims, 'What do you think I am, a prostitute?' Answers the man, 'Why yes, we've already established that you will sleep with someone for money. We're only negotiating on the price." Well, Robert has established he will look away from fascism (euro-nationalist fascism) in order to fight islamofascism. So all he is doing at this point is negotiating around what level of fascism is acceptable to him.

He could be morally strong and stand with us saying fascism is not acceptable in any form. He has chosen not to. As I said in posts over the weekend - that's moral and intellectual cowardice.

114 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:11:28pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

"So yes, to be clear, last week I was the one who leaked those things to a producer at Fox News who works with Cameron."

Leaky and proud of it. "Maaaaaaaa Sarah hit me". Good grief, where's the flyswatter when you need it?

115 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:11:36pm

re: #104 Dartmouth

6,000 Muslim clerics sign fatwa against terrorism.

Better late than never (and it'd be nice to see some anti-terror fatwas coming from the Middle East). One can hope...

The other 200,000 clerics shouted "Death To America! Death To Israel" in unison.

116 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:11:43pm

re: #102 Ben Hur

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

HOAX.

Confirmed a hoax?

117 Dianna  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:11:52pm

re: #110 Honorary Yooper

He also did likewise to Sharmuta. It was his "hypothetical" statement about Sharmuta that got him whining about Mandy. Edgar started it, and now he's bitching about it.

I know, I was there. He insulted me before that. Flat out, not even as a hypothetical. He's never apologized for his crude, disgusting remark.

So, when he's banned - and I'm sure he will manage it, at some point - I will not be sorry.

118 Diamond Bullet  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:12:12pm

re: #104 Dartmouth

6,000 Muslim clerics sign fatwa against terrorism.

Better late than never (and it'd be nice to see some anti-terror fatwas coming from the Middle East). One can hope...

As I read it, that fatwa has the same sort of flaws many other ostensibly anti-terror ones do - it fails to provide a meaningful definition of its terms. Westerners might equate "innocent" with "civilian" or the like, but as we've seen many Islamists basically consider innocents to only be other Muslims of their particular sect. Same thing for "unjust" violence, and so on. Many of these fatwas are, sadly, PR moves that mean something quite different to their drafters than to a Western audience.

119 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:12:26pm

re: #116 turn

Confirmed a hoax?


I don't know.

I thought that sourcewatch was the confirmation.

HotAir is calling it a hoax.

THat's how I got to sourcewatch.

120 Golem Akbar  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:12:53pm

Okay, I've been a bit busy lately and haven't been able to follow the schisms within the Lizard world. Can anybody fill me in? I think I know about Pamela, and Babba, but what about the others?

/Is there a program available?

121 formercorpsman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:13:01pm

re: #90 buzzsawmonkey

Exactly Buzz.

Forked tongue. It is a very tough sell, to say you support Israel, and the sovereignty of a Jewish Nation, and then turn around and sings songs at a cafe about little Jewish girls going to Dachau.

122 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:14:15pm

re: #112 Ben Hur

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

re: #119 Ben Hur

I don't know.

I thought that sourcewatch was the confirmation.

HotAir is calling it a hoax.

THat's how I got to sourcewatch.

SORRY.

THIS IS THE CORRECT LINK:

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

123 HoosierHoops  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:14:28pm

re: #117 Dianna

I know, I was there. He insulted me before that. Flat out, not even as a hypothetical. He's never apologized for his crude, disgusting remark.

So, when he's banned - and I'm sure he will manage it, at some point - I will not be sorry.

That's like saying the Lions won't make the playoffs..sure half the season hasn't been played..but you can bet the house on it.

124 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:14:30pm

re: #102 Ben Hur

I don't see where that says it's a hoax. What am I missing?

125 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:15:16pm

re: #102 Ben Hur

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

HOAX.

That's more like it. My guess as to who told the whoppers re: Sarah? An ugly woman or two.

126 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:15:17pm

Desperation breeds familiarity.
I can only imagine how terrified these fascist pigs must be for them to lower themselves and to grovel in this fashion.
Charles, I gotta hand it to ya, you had these assholes pegged.

127 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:15:17pm

So wait, wait... am I to understand that neo-Nazis who enjoy giving fascist salutes and displaying SS symbols are not to be trusted whent they declare that they're "friends of Israel"?! Well, now I've heard everything.

/

128 fish  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:15:19pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I don't see where that says it's a hoax. What am I missing?

I thought the same thing when i read it.

129 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:15:23pm

re: #102 Ben Hur

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php

HOAX.

I'm not finding the reference in that link.....where do you see something on this?

130 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:16:01pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I don't see where that says it's a hoax. What am I missing?


Go back and click on the new link I posted.

Even TNR is back peddling:

[Link: blogs.tnr.com...]

They crossed out everything in their article about this.

131 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:16:18pm

re: #127 Occasional Reader

So wait, wait... am I to understand that neo-Nazis who enjoy giving fascist salutes and displaying SS symbols are not to be trusted whent they declare that they're "friends of Israel"?! Well, now I've heard everything.

/

You said it!

132 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:16:34pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I don't see where that says it's a hoax. What am I missing?


[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

133 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:16:36pm

re: #119 Ben Hur

I don't know.

I thought that sourcewatch was the confirmation.

HotAir is calling it a hoax.

THat's how I got to sourcewatch.

Isn't sourcewatch another moonbat propaganda site like Media Matters? It sure looks that way.

134 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:16:45pm

re: #129 eschew_obfuscation

I'm not finding the reference in that link.....where do you see something on this?

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

135 jroberson  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:16:56pm

OT:

Obama Spokeswoman: President-Elect Ready to ‘Rule’ From ‘Day One’

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=217323

136 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:17:37pm

re: #131 Daisy

You said it!

What kind of world are we living in when you can't trust Nazis to be semitophilic?

137 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:17:44pm

re: #133 Spiny Norman

Isn't sourcewatch another moonbat propaganda site like Media Matters? It sure looks that way.

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

I don't know.

TNR changed their post for some reason. I guess they think it's a legit site.

138 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:17:58pm
139 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:18:11pm

re: #104 Dartmouth

6,000 Muslim clerics sign fatwa against terrorism.

Better late than never (and it'd be nice to see some anti-terror fatwas coming from the Middle East). One can hope...

Unfortunately, they're only against Israeli terrorism against the Pali's. The other way around is still okay (and it's not terrorism, it's, oh, I don't know...community activism).
/

140 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:18:16pm

re: #134 Ben Hur

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

...got it.....thanks!

141 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:19:39pm

OT but very interesting.

1. Bircat HaHamah - The Blessing on the Sun -

Since creation, there have been only two times that the year we (Jews) say Birkat HaHamah fell on the 1st Day of Passover.

The first was the year Hashem redeemed Israel from Egypt.
The second was the year of Purim, when Hashem saved the Jews from the evil Haman, who wanted to kill and destroy all Jews.

This year Birkat HaHamah falls on the 1st Day of Passover. (which will be the 3rd time in history)

Interesting Times We Live In

142 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:19:48pm

re: #119 Ben Hur

I don't know.

I thought that sourcewatch was the confirmation.

HotAir is calling it a hoax.

THat's how I got to sourcewatch.

The last thing Palin needs is to be duped by another hoax, I bet the left won't let up trying the next four years though.

143 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:19:52pm

re: #104 Dartmouth

6,000 Muslim clerics sign fatwa against terrorism.

Better late than never (and it'd be nice to see some anti-terror fatwas coming from the Middle East). One can hope...

That's great news.

144 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:20:01pm

I don't want to be quick to judge, but I feel confident in saying that if they man doesn't actually exist, then it is highly unlikely that he is the bearer of tales of "stoopid" Palin.

145 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:20:03pm
146 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:20:24pm

re: #136 Occasional Reader

What kind of world are we living in when you can't trust Nazis to be semitophilic?

An upside down world, my friend. A world where dogs don't bark and babies don't cry. Upside down. Everyone knows that Nazis philo Semites.

147 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:20:30pm

re: #122 Ben Hur

Thanks. Interesting. Could it be that he actually was the source of the leak but he never worked for McCain? Maybe FOX was duped.

148 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:21:18pm

re: #137 Ben Hur

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

I don't know.

TNR changed their post for some reason. I guess they think it's a legit site.

Oh, Media Matters is "legit", too, but they're a well-funded Democrat spin machine. A quick exam of sourcewatch seems to reveal only "debunking" of conservative views.

149 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:22:20pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Thanks. Interesting. Could it be that he actually was the source of the leak but he never worked for McCain? Maybe FOX was duped.

I think the hoax is the man himself.

150 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:22:21pm
151 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:22:30pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Thanks. Interesting. Could it be that he actually was the source of the leak but he never worked for McCain? Maybe FOX was duped.

Has McCain said one word in defense of Palin yet?

152 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:22:57pm
153 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:23:15pm

re: #150 ploome hineni

Wait! How can they be racist then when they share that salute with the Arabs of Hiz'b'allah?

154 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:23:21pm

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

155 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:23:43pm

re: #151 Daisy

Has McCain said one word in defense of Palin yet?

He won't. It could damage his new/old relationship with the Democrats.

156 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:23:51pm

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Upon dissection, "terrorism" in these sorts of fatwas invariably means anything that opposes the will of any Muslim, anywhere, at any time, and does not apply to any jihadi actions whatsoever.

I could be wrong, but that's not my read on the Darul Uloom Deoband.

157 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:23:59pm
158 debutaunt  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:24:42pm

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nah, they went back to sleep after the election.

You try to vote when you're dead. It's quite exhausting, but, anything for the 0.

159 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:24:44pm

re: #154 Ben Hur

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

C.S. Lewis, is that you?

160 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:24:47pm
161 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:25:03pm

re: #151 Daisy

Has McCain said one word in defense of Palin yet?

McC who?

162 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:25:32pm

Ron Paul is looking better and better.

163 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:25:35pm

re: #157 buzzsawmonkey

I have heard it suggested that McCain never really wanted Palin; that she was, in effect, foisted on him by advisers who told him that he'd better support his base to the right, and pronto, if he didn't want to go down in flames from the outset.

That doesn't make much sense in light of all the vitriol fired her way by McCain's advisers.

164 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:25:46pm

re: #159 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The only Devil that exists is in the free will actions of mankind.

165 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:25:52pm

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Upon dissection, "terrorism" in these sorts of fatwas invariably means anything that opposes the will of any Muslim, anywhere, at any time, and does not apply to any jihadi actions whatsoever.

Indeed, your very post constitutes... terrorism!

166 turn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:25:56pm

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Upon dissection, "terrorism" in these sorts of fatwas invariably means anything that opposes the will of any Muslim, anywhere, at any time, and does not apply to any jihadi actions whatsoever.

That gives me a sinking feeling but is probably the case, probably more like Taquia - lying to the infidels.

167 HoosierHoops  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:26:03pm

re: #154 Ben Hur

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Is that why Satan is so pissed off at devil worshipers?
/I hear things

168 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:26:20pm

re: #155 Spiny Norman

He won't. It could damage his new/old relationship with the Democrats.

New/old is right.

169 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:26:26pm

re: #162 Racer X

Ron Paul is looking better and better.

Sarc?

Stormfront is not your friend.

170 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:26:33pm

re: #157 buzzsawmonkey

I have heard it suggested that McCain never really wanted Palin; that she was, in effect, foisted on him by advisers who told him that he'd better support his base to the right, and pronto, if he didn't want to go down in flames from the outset.

Well if McCain couldn't control his own "Troops" so to speak, he has no right being President! Of course neither does whats his name but.......

171 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:26:44pm

re: #163 Spiny Norman

That doesn't make much sense in light of all the vitriol fired her way by McCain's advisers.

Just curious.....do we know that this comes from any more than one 'advisor'? (I didn't see the Fox report on it)

172 Athos  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:26:50pm

re: #104 Dartmouth

6,000 Muslim clerics sign fatwa against terrorism.

Better late than never (and it'd be nice to see some anti-terror fatwas coming from the Middle East). One can hope...

And the other several million clerics........?

173 Buck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:27:24pm

The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
- George F. Will

174 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:27:26pm

re: #83 stuiec

Doesn't a shared respect for the Constitution define a central aspect of American culture?

My fear is this: That organizations like VB (KKK anyone?) will start to flourish here in the US if our fears of what Obama, a liberal democrat congress, and a liberal supreme court could do to our constitution become manifest. VB exists because no one of any perceived strength is willing to stand up to creeping immigration, jihadism, or socialism. This same situation is starting to take shape here in the US and I suspect that we'll be seeing people that seemed to be level-headed about these very troubles succumb to VB-like voices because they're the only voices that speak of possible action. God help us.

175 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:27:56pm
176 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:27:56pm

re: #171 eschew_obfuscation

Just curious.....do we know that this comes from any more than one 'advisor'? (I didn't see the Fox report on it)

Of course, "unnamed aides" could mean anything, even Carl Cameron's own ass.

177 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:15pm

re: #159 pre-Boomer Marine brat

C.S. Lewis, is that you?

Usual Suspects (I think) + Google = Wit.

178 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:16pm

re: #170 Nevergiveup

Well if McCain couldn't control his own "Troops" so to speak, he has no right being President! Of course neither does whats his name but.......

My fear is that The One isn't the controller as much as the controlled. Here's hoping he pulls a Bull Moose on Tammany Hall - (but I'm not holding my breath).

179 gegenkritik  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:18pm

re: #49 turn
Thank you. :)

#54 midwestgak

I wish I was sure. It only takes a few people in high places to make a few decisions. Just like that. And painted with a smiley face.


Hmmm, I understand your concern, but I am sure, even a very leftist Obama-Administration can't govern against the majority of the American People.
Hannah Arendt once said about post-Nazi Germany: "One feels overwhelmed by a public stupidity, whom one can not trust for a correct opinion in the most basic things."
I think, in the USA it's the exact opposite. While in Germany, 65% of the people hallucinate Israel as the greatest danger for world peace, it's really heart-warming to chat with Americans, who see things so much clearer. If you live in Old Europe, America even under Obama looks like the refuge of enlightment. ;)

180 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:23pm

re: #157 buzzsawmonkey

I have heard it suggested that McCain never really wanted Palin; that she was, in effect, foisted on him by advisers who told him that he'd better support his base to the right, and pronto, if he didn't want to go down in flames from the outset.

Which brings me back to this
First the good news: McCain lost
and then
The bad news: Obama won.

181 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:29pm

re: #160 buzzsawmonkey

What is the Darul Uloom Deoband?

I think it's one of those high-tech, pricey Danish stereo systems.

182 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:39pm
183 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:28:46pm

re: #177 Ben Hur

Usual Suspects (I think) + Google = Wit.

Verbal Kint, yes.

184 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:29:28pm

If this guy isn't a McCain advisor he's been running this gimmick for a while.....
The Last Republican: An Inside Look at McCain Adviser Eisenstadt

185 Athos  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:29:43pm

re: #157 buzzsawmonkey

I have heard it suggested that McCain never really wanted Palin; that she was, in effect, foisted on him by advisers who told him that he'd better support his base to the right, and pronto, if he didn't want to go down in flames from the outset.


I find that hard to believe. I would have thought in that case it would have been Huckabee or more remotely Romney as the nominee. Gov. Palin came from leftfield to be the nominee. It still seems to me that the satffers behind this are trying to focus the blame on Palin (based on the MSM's complaints of her) as opposed to their own far more substantial role in the failure of the McCain campaign.

186 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:29:43pm
187 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:29:59pm

re: #143 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That's great news.

I don't trust it.

188 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:30:13pm

re: #160 buzzsawmonkey

What is the Darul Uloom Deoband?


The school -- see the end of the article.
(UPI article once more)
(Wikipedia, merely as a quick link)
Related article in today's Times of India

189 Golem Akbar  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:30:45pm

re: #141 WrathofG-d

OT but very interesting.

1. Bircat HaHamah - The Blessing on the Sun -

Since creation, there have been only two times that the year we (Jews) say Birkat HaHamah fell on the 1st Day of Passover.

The first was the year Hashem redeemed Israel from Egypt.
The second was the year of Purim, when Hashem saved the Jews from the evil Haman, who wanted to kill and destroy all Jews.

This year Birkat HaHamah falls on the 1st Day of Passover. (which will be the 3rd time in history)

Interesting Times We Live In

Something to look forward to!
Thanks for that.

190 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:30:56pm

re: #182 WrathofG-d

nu!? How come we never hear about this?


Who hasn't heard of that? I am sure Obama knows all about it?
/

191 Wishing  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:01pm

re: #114 Daisy

"So yes, to be clear, last week I was the one who leaked those things to a producer at Fox News who works with Cameron."

Leaky and proud of it. "Maaaaaaaa Sarah hit me". Good grief, where's the flyswatter when you need it?

He isnt worth the energy.

192 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:09pm

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

I'm so confused Buzz. I thought all the hatred of Jews by the Arabs stemmed from the occupation of 1967. This occurred before Israel was even declared.

/

193 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:11pm

re: #157 buzzsawmonkey

A GOP guy I know mentioned her as someone Giuliani was very interested in as VP. This was back when Giuliani was way ahead in the polls, before campaigning began in earnest.
(I confess I had never heard of Palin before that.)

194 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:11pm

re: #177 Ben Hur

"Usual Suspects (I think)"


You are correct!

-Ed McMahon voice

By the way... all my formatting code buttons are gone (quote, bold italics, etc.); anyone else?

195 Buck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:21pm

re: #182 WrathofG-d

nu!? How come we never hear about this?

Because if you can't blame it on the USA or the Jews, then it didn't happen.

196 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:26pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Robert's attacks are getting increasingly personal.

His turn has made me very sad. Snap out of it, Robert.

197 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:31:41pm

re: #174 Soona'

My fear is this: That organizations like VB (KKK anyone?) will start to flourish here in the US if our fears of what Obama, a liberal democrat congress, and a liberal supreme court could do to our constitution become manifest. VB exists because no one of any perceived strength is willing to stand up to creeping immigration, jihadism, or socialism. This same situation is starting to take shape here in the US and I suspect that we'll be seeing people that seemed to be level-headed about these very troubles succumb to VB-like voices because they're the only voices that speak of possible action. God help us.

Didn't I just see a report on Fox News over the weekend that a black church had been burned (arson) the day after the election? Anybody else see that?

198 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:32:29pm

re: #145 buzzsawmonkey

Upon dissection, "terrorism" in these sorts of fatwas invariably means anything that opposes the will of any Muslim, anywhere, at any time, and does not apply to any jihadi actions whatsoever.

The fatwah issued from India, that shining beacon of interfaith harmony.
These Indian Muslim functionaries are probably out on bail or wanted in the widespread rash of Islamist terror attacks throughout the subcontinent.
It's all one big, fat waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

199 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:32:59pm

re: #175 buzzsawmonkey

To the contrary, it makes lots of sense. First, there may have been more than one faction among McCain's advisers; since he picked up some Romney staffers adrift in that campaign's wreckage, that is almost certain. Second, even advisers who may have urged McCain to choose Palin as a "placate the rubes" move may well have disliked her from the get-go, and are now giving vent to that emotion.

No, I think McCain himself chose her, against the advice of (at least some of) his advisors. Considering how much energy she added to an otherwise floundering campaign, it was a wise one. It just wasn't enough. 5 million GOP voters stayed home because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for McCain.

200 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:33:42pm

re: #191 Wishing

He isnt worth the energy.

Especially so now that it would appear he's non-existent :)

201 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:33:48pm

re: #192 WrathofG-d

I'm so confused Buzz. I thought all the hatred of Jews by the Arabs stemmed from the occupation of 1967. This occurred before Israel was even declared.

/

Damn those time-traveling Zionist occupiers!

202 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:34:12pm
203 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:34:20pm

re: #111 WrathofG-d

what is ORLY?

1) An airport in Paris.

2) A phonetic abbreviation for "Oh, really?"

204 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:34:46pm

re: #187 Soona'

I don't trust it.

See today's Times Of India article I linked to in my #188. The same man's cited in the 5th paragraph.

205 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:34:47pm

re: #194 Occasional Reader


By the way... all my formatting code buttons are gone (quote, bold italics, etc.); anyone else?

But the avatars are back. What--you want everything?

/I have my buttons. Reload, grasshopper.

206 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:35:56pm
207 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:36:08pm

re: #169 Spiny Norman

Sarc?

Stormfront is not your friend.

Yes. I was kidding.

208 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:36:51pm

re: #109 fish

You know there are days when I question that shared respect for the Consitution. (Fairness doctrine, The crusade against gun rights, The idea that the Consitution is a living and evolving document, A VP-Elect who has a questionable understanding of the consitution...)

All of which are exceptions that prove the rule. You're talking about the huge challenges facing American culture -- namely, that we're so lackadaisical about instilling it in our new citizens (our children and new immigrants alike) that we're losing it.

209 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:37:07pm

re: #194 Occasional Reader

Your buttons are gone?!
How about your zipper?

210 Wishing  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:37:13pm

re: #138 taxfreekiller

Screw you Al Gore,
and
a big old up yours Earth Firsters

[Link: www.arapahoebasin.com...]

web cams live do not lie

Is that your hotel or something, tfk?

211 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:37:40pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

We do control everything....even time.

Since I can't believe that noone would find this interesting, I will have to assume that most people missed it. Thus, and therefore, and accordingly, I am going to post it again. Syria Has Nukes - Have Fun Obama

212 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:37:41pm

re: #206 buzzsawmonkey

"Bilbo, Bilbo...heh! Buttons all over the doorstep!"
--Balin the Dwarf

And his wife, Sarah Balin.

213 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:37:50pm

re: #193 wolfie

A GOP guy I know mentioned her as someone Giuliani was very interested in as VP. This was back when Giuliani was way ahead in the polls, before campaigning began in earnest.
(I confess I had never heard of Palin before that.)

Actually, some people here started promoting her back then, and I looked her up and decided that the "lack of experience" issue could be a deal-breaker and didn't give her any further thought. I underestimated her political savvy, I think.

214 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:38:16pm

re: #203 stuiec

1) An airport in Paris.

2) A phonetic abbreviation for "Oh, really?"

Or, Manuel's pronunciation of "O'Reilly" in the Fawlty Towers episode where Basil hires the "cheapish" (Basil's term) O'Reilly, instead of the reputable and competent Stubbs, to move a couple of doors inside the hotel.

/you orly men! men, you work!

215 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:38:36pm

re: #207 Racer X

Yes. I was kidding.

Phew! Scared me for a moment there.

=^0

216 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:38:44pm

re: #201 Occasional Reader

Damn those time-traveling Zionist occupiers!

The sad part is that the party, and the ideological left wing of the party, coming into power now believe that if these stubborn Jews just agree to withdraw to the the 1967 borders, there can be peace? These moral "equivalence" and "Honest Broker" sorts truly believe the fault lies with both sides equally?

217 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:38:49pm

re: #211 WrathofG-d

I am going to post it again. Syria Has Nukes - Have Fun Obama

United Nations investigators have found traces of uranium contamination at the site of an Israeli air strike in Syria

Sounds more like Syria used to have nukes. Bwaaahahahaha...

218 Golem Akbar  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:38:50pm

re: #214 Ward Cleaver

Or, Manuel's pronunciation of "O'Reilly" in the Fawlty Towers episode where Basil hires the "cheapish" (Basil's term) O'Reilly, instead of the reputable and competent Stubbs, to move a couple of doors inside the hotel.

/you orly men! men, you work!


Ah gets up orly in the mornin..

219 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:40:10pm

More on the Palin leaker......
The Last Republican — Part 2: Outsourcing McCain


Eisenstadt arrives at the Torrance McCain election headquarters only to be dissed and essentially asked to leave. All after bragging about his many connections and how well know he his. Around three minutes in is this episodes funniest moment when discussing the absence of volunteers in the call center Eisenstadt suggests that the McCain Campaign has outsourced those jobs to India.

The guy's a comedian tricking the press with a "Borat" type gimmick. It's actually kinda funny once you figure it out. FOX was completely scammed.

220 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:40:29pm
221 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:40:31pm

It is my personal opinon that this McCain camp versus Palin thing is almost a complete fabrication by the media. Maybe factually accurate, but 100% false.

Sure, they ask and ask and ask (Did everyone like her? Was she the best choice? Did you have misgivings? Did she say X?) finally get some people to say something "not nice," gleefully report it, then run to Palin, who says some generic responses (I'm disappointed in them. It is cowardly not to give your name), which are then reported as if she is "fighting back" and so on.

Sure, I imagine the advisors and McCain talked about pros and cons of lots of VPs. So, that would mean by definition that many advisors expressed negatives about Palin.

And McCain himself probably expressed pros and cons. So McCain had expressed negatives. Add the carefully selected facts together and you get "McCain was forced to choose Palin over his wishes," or some such bologna.

222 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:40:54pm

re: #211 WrathofG-d

We do control everything....even time.

Since I can't believe that noone would find this interesting, I will have to assume that most people missed it. Thus, and therefore, and accordingly, I am going to post it again. Syria Has Nukes - Have Fun Obama

NEWSFLASH: PROOF UNCOVERED THAT ISRAEL NUKED SYRIA.
/

223 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:41:53pm

re: #208 stuiec

A heritage has to be transmitted.
Culture has to be cultivated.
That's the only way it can survive.

224 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:41:54pm

re: #217 Occasional Reader

Sounds more like Syria used to have nukes. Bwaaahahahaha...

Fair enough, but the larger point is that Syria, and Iran are both trying to build Nukes. At the same time Russia is getting uppity. The U.S. has a weak, peace at most costs President coming up.

I think I see where this might be going.

225 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:41:55pm

re: #103 Silhouette

Yeah, I would say we have an American culture. But not a nationality: no type of person that is an American that one could physically measure by our genes, our skin, our hair, or how long our families have been here.

America is different from the other nations of the world because America represents the shared heritage of an idea, not a specific chunk of land with a certain set of tribes. The idea is embodied in the Constitution and its protection of the rights of individual Americans to live their lives without undue interference by the Government in what we can say, how we can earn our living, what we can do with our property, where we can live, and with whom we can associate.

And the idea has been under assault for well over a hundred years from people who think the Government should tell us what we can say, how we can earn our living, what we can do with our property, where we can live, and with whom we can associate.

226 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:42:08pm

re: #218 Golem Akbar

Ah gets up orly in the mornin..

You've got a lot of de gaulle, posting that.

227 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:42:12pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

More on the Palin leaker......
The Last Republican — Part 2: Outsourcing McCain


The guy's a comedian tricking the press with a "Borat" type gimmick. It's actually kinda funny once you figure it out. FOX was completely scammed.

FOX was foxed?

228 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:42:16pm
229 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:42:17pm

Christmas stories from the future:

... and then Obama came down the chimney with lots of toys for all the good children of the community organizers. All the toys were made by the rich up in the north pole where they happily redistribute toys to more deserving children all over the world.

Climbing back in his solar powered hybrid sleigh, Obama knows who has been listening to talk radio and who hasn't!

230 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:42:30pm

re: #204 pre-Boomer Marine brat

See today's Times Of India article I linked to in my #188. The same man's cited in the 5th paragraph.

I know. The fatwa sounds all rosy and unicorns, but I keep remembering something about that book of war and violence they worship...the Koran.

231 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:42:53pm

re: #224 WrathofG-d

I think I see where this might be going.

Change? Hope? Yes, we can?

/

232 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:43:41pm
233 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:43:55pm

re: #211 WrathofG-d

We do control everything....even time.

Since I can't believe that noone would find this interesting, I will have to assume that most people missed it. Thus, and therefore, and accordingly, I am going to post it again. Syria Has Nukes - Have Fun Obama

Wrath, with respect, it doesn't follow that "Syria Has Nukes". Yes, that site absolutely was nuclear-related, either a reactor or a processing site for material which had been shipped in from North Korea.

234 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:44:04pm

re: #218 Golem Akbar

Ah gets up orly in the mornin..

In the Civil War, it had to be one or the other, Grant Orly.

235 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:44:29pm

re: #203 stuiec

1) An airport in Paris.

2) A phonetic abbreviation for "Oh, really?"

ORLY?

(old Fark cliché)

236 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:44:31pm

re: #224 WrathofG-d


I think I see where this might be going.

To Hell in a hand-basket?

237 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:45:15pm

re: #228 buzzsawmonkey

In any campaign, you have a bunch of heterogeneous and highly ambitious people scrabbling for their own advancement as well as for the common goal.

It is no surprise to see fallout among them, particularly after a major loss.

I still don't think it is 'fallout' on the level that it is being reported. I think it is the standard disagreements that you are talking about, exploited and played up by the media to make it seem like it is this huge feud.

238 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:45:31pm

re: #233 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Wrath, with respect, it doesn't follow that "Syria Has Nukes". Yes, that site absolutely was nuclear-related, either a reactor or a processing site for material which had been shipped in from North Korea.

I know. But when I headlined it as something to the effect of "syria site was nuclea" or "Syria might have had Nukes" noone read it. Where is Cog to defend me?

239 talon_262  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:45:40pm

re: #47 Honorary Yooper

He's pissed off that Charles won't toe the "VB is our friends" line of bullshit. I agree with Charles. The VB and other assorted, similar groups are not our friends in the anti-jihad.

Spencer, GoV, Fjordman, and all the other VB apologists can go eat a bag of d**ks for all I care. All I know is that, given VB and their allies' neo-Nazi leanings, I don't want to have anything to do with them or their apologists and I sure as hell don't want them in the anti-jihad tent.

240 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:45:40pm

re: #213 Spiny Norman

Actually, some people here started promoting her back then, and I looked her up and decided that the "lack of experience" issue could be a deal-breaker and didn't give her any further thought. I underestimated her political savvy, I think.

Yes! After reading about her in the MSM, which loved her back then, I thought she was perfect except for the relative lack of experience.
Of course, at that time we all thought it would be Hillary vs. Giuliani.
We didn't know the Dems would actually nominate someone with a far thinner resume than Palin's!

241 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:45:48pm
242 J.S.  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:46:03pm

re: #227 Daisy

I wouldn't be at all surprised that that Cameron idiot was hoaxed. This is (once again) why legitimate media do not use "un-named" sources. This is why. Fox News is destroying its credibility...(if they ever had any credibility to begin with -- I've never liked Fox News..)

243 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:46:03pm

2,000-year-old gold earring found beneath Jerusalem parking lot

By The Associated Press

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

"The discovery dates back to just after the time of Christ, during the Roman period," said Doron Ben-Ami, director of excavation at the site.

When asked for a comment Arafat said " not only was Christ a figment of the Pope's imagination, but that is my wife's jewelery".

244 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:46:45pm

re: #232 buzzsawmonkey

I think a prepared-food company called YesWe Can might do well if it started up now...

...and they'd sell Canned "YesWe", right?

245 Wishing  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:46:54pm

re: #200 Daisy

Especially so now that it would appear he's non-existent :)

See? I saved all your precious energy!

246 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:46:58pm
247 nyc redneck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:47:13pm

re: #243 Nevergiveup

2,000-year-old gold earring found beneath Jerusalem parking lot

By The Associated Press

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

"The discovery dates back to just after the time of Christ, during the Roman period," said Doron Ben-Ami, director of excavation at the site.

When asked for a comment Arafat said " not only was Christ a figment of the Pope's imagination, but that is my wife's jewelery".

people have always liked shiny things.

248 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:47:26pm

re: #242 J.S.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that that Cameron idiot was hoaxed. This is (once again) why legitimate media do not use "un-named" sources. This is why. Fox News is destroying its credibility...(if they ever had any credibility to begin with -- I've never liked Fox News..)

Same here: "National Enquirer TV" almost from the beginning.

249 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:47:32pm

re: #227 Daisy

If he was the source for the FOX story they should be very embarrassed. They were scammed by a comedian.

250 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:48:07pm

re: #235 Spiny Norman

ORLY?

(old Fark cliché)

Also a name in hebrew--Orli or Orly--"the light is mine"

251 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:48:38pm

re: #230 Soona'

I know. The fatwa sounds all rosy and unicorns, but I keep remembering something about that book of war and violence they worship...the Koran.

Oh, I hear you. Loud and clear.

That said, there are moderate Muslims who do not believe as the Wahabbi do. The problem is, they have been far too silent. That's why this is encouraging. This school is one of the moderate groups.

252 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:48:45pm

#113 Athos,
I see your point. I was not aware of the email Robert sent. I really only know of his pov through one of his posts and through an email he sent me.

I can not defend what he said in the email you quote.

It isn't my job to defend Robert Spencer anyway.

That being said, I think one ought to analyze the political dynamic of the counter-Jihad.

Note that the following are on the GoV/Atlas Shrugs side of the argument:

John Bolton
Bat Ye'or
Frank Gaffney
Andrew Bostom
Brigitte Gabriel
Walid Phares
Geert Wilders
Nidra Poller
Nonie Darwish
Walid Shoebat
etc.

I have a hard time believing these people are ignorant as to the argument that is going on between those who oppose VB and those who support it. They either support the Atlas/GoV position, or they are taking the same tact as Spencer.

I think that's where the "reasonable people can differ" position comes from.

Here's the anti-Jihad choices, if you disagree with VB.

LGF
Jawa Report
IBA (LOL)

Wow.

Wait, we've got Hot Air too, right?

253 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:49:00pm

re: #224 WrathofG-d

Fair enough, but the larger point is that Syria, and Iran are both trying to build Nukes. At the same time Russia is getting uppity. The U.S. has a weak, peace at most costs President coming up.

I think I see where this might be going.

What kills me is; why don't they just pool their resources and buy a couple of nukes from Russia or China? Why do they have to build them?

254 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:49:20pm

re: #240 wolfie

Yes! After reading about her in the MSM, which loved her back then, I thought she was perfect except for the relative lack of experience.
Of course, at that time we all thought it would be Hillary vs. Giuliani.
We didn't know the Dems would actually nominate someone with a far thinner resume than Palin's!

Exactly, and against Shrillary, Palin would have been seen as a "me too" gimmick by nearly everyone, conservatives included.

255 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:49:41pm

re: #242 J.S.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that that Cameron idiot was hoaxed. This is (once again) why legitimate media do not use "un-named" sources. This is why. Fox News is destroying its credibility...(if they ever had any credibility to begin with -- I've never liked Fox News..)

As my dearly departed father in law used to repeat, "you can't con an honest man".

256 Golem Akbar  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:49:52pm

re: #226 Occasional Reader

You've got a lot of de gaulle, posting that.

Dangit my monitor is spewed on again...

257 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:50:07pm

re: #232 buzzsawmonkey

GMTA..........not me, but the folks down the road that own a cannery.
They were talking about using YES WE CAN! in an ad.

258 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:50:51pm

re: #238 WrathofG-d

I know. But when I headlined it as something to the effect of "syria site was nuclea" or "Syria might have had Nukes" noone read it. Where is Cog to defend me?

Now I see.
You are forgiven.
*grin*

259 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:51:29pm

re: #253 Soona'

my take? Because we are given the free will opportunity to stop them. Its a test.

260 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:52:23pm

Brigitte Gabriel is on Jerry Doyle's show right now, and damn I wish she would slow down. I agree with everything she has to say, but she talks way too fast. Take a breath, fercryinoutloud.

I think Jerry has a crush. She's been on a lot recently.

261 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:52:27pm

Did Norway's FM compare settlers to Nazis?
Jonas Gahr Støre publishes book describing Palestinian stores in Hebron with shattered windows as evoking 'Nazi associations.' He denies claim however, saying there 'are other historical examples'

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

How do ignorant people like this get elected? It could never happen in this country.....ah...nevermind.

262 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:52:31pm

Have fun Lizards. I'm off to prepare dinner; company is coming!

263 Charles  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:52:36pm

re: #252 Pastorius

I don't know about the rest of your list, but I sincerely doubt that John Bolton is defending the Vlaams Belang. Where did you get that from?

264 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:52:39pm

re: #227 Daisy

FOX was foxed?

You can fox the fox
rat on the rat
You can ape the ape
I know about that

265 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:53:09pm

re: #237 Silhouette

I like the way they refer to this as a "leak." This implies that is reality-based information that slipped out, rather than idle gossip passed on.
There is no reason to believe any of it.

266 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:53:11pm

re: #235 Spiny Norman

ORLY?

(old Fark cliché)

I prefer LOLcats....

... even when they're owls.

267 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:53:16pm

re: #222 Spare O'Lake

NEWSFLASH: PROOF UNCOVERED THAT ISRAEL NUKED SYRIA.
/

Just to clarify for those who fail to grasp sarcasm, nukes give off a unique seismic signature, so if Israel used nukes, we already know. We also have satellites tasked with watching for the unique energy discharges associated with nuclear exposions, so again, if it were true, we would already know. Syria, red-faced and in trouble, will likely try to make up some silly story that Israel did nuke them.

268 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:54:16pm

re: #246 buzzsawmonkey

...and The 2000-Year-Old Man's wife wants it back!

Wrapped up in some nice Saran Wrap!

269 Charles  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:54:57pm

re: #252 Pastorius

And one more point -- I would not care if Ronald Reagan came back from the grave and said, "Vlaams Belang is a bunch of fine people!"

I still would not want anything to do with them.

270 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:54:58pm

re: #256 Golem Akbar

Dangit my monitor is spewed on again...

[cough] ah, what kind of sites have you been visiting, Golem?

271 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:55:24pm

re: #266 stuiec

I prefer LOLcats....

... even when they're owls.

YA RLY!

272 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:55:39pm

wayy off topic but again interesting to share.

Family members are in Israel today. They were visiting Sderot when the "red alert" siren went off. They immediately went rushing to the nearest bomb shelter.

Glad to hear the Truce is still in order.

273 J.S.  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:56:10pm

re: #248 Spiny Norman

Absolutely! (might add, though, that the McCain camp was shooting itself in the foot over and over and over again. Sarah Palin was also hoaxed, by two Montreal DJs...too stupid to repeat. Ridiculous. Oh, and then, that so-called Republican, Ed Rollins, who supported Huckabee -- he was on Lou Dobbs and exclaimed that The McCain Campaign was "over" -- and that was on October 10, 2008. Yeah, weeks prior to the actual election, and a "republican" strategist announced that "it's over" for McCain...McCain was finished and Obama was going to win -- that was said by a "republican." sheeesh...talk about disorganized!

274 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:56:24pm

re: #260 Spiny Norman

Er, well,.......she kinda makes Mr. Wolf's leg tingle, too.
(He has good taste, I must say!)

275 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:56:27pm

re: #257 wolfie

GMTA..........not me, but the folks down the road that own a cannery.
They were talking about using YES WE CAN! in an ad.

It also sounds like a good name for a portable potty company.

276 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:56:28pm

re: #267 David IV of Georgia

Just to clarify for those who fail to grasp sarcasm, nukes give off a unique seismic signature, so if Israel used nukes, we already know. We also have satellites tasked with watching for the unique energy discharges associated with nuclear exposions, so again, if it were true, we would already know. Syria, red-faced and in trouble, will likely try to make up some silly story that Israel did nuke them.

Waddabout mini-nukes?!?

/troofer

277 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:56:34pm

re: #269 Charles

But if he did could we run him in 2012 against Obama?

It would be the Messiah vs. the Messiah.

278 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:56:37pm

re: #267 David IV of Georgia

Just to clarify for those who fail to grasp sarcasm, nukes give off a unique seismic signature, so if Israel used nukes, we already know. We also have satellites tasked with watching for the unique energy discharges associated with nuclear exposions, so again, if it were true, we would already know. Syria, red-faced and in trouble, will likely try to make up some silly story that Israel did nuke them.

Yep. Those sneaky Israelis used itsy, bitsy, teeny, weeny, tiny, little baby nukes.

279 000G  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:57:22pm

The only reason these people are not publicly waving swastika flags and openly promoting genocide is because Nazism has been made history's loser in the public's eye and is almost universally shunned in the west. Heck, even the original nazis, already having gained massive popular support, had to beckpaddle when in 1931 the "Boxheim Documents" of Werner Best (look it up) came to light. The neo-nazis will also wait and keep quiet until they have found some new DNVP helping them seize governments on a national level.

The only way to make these scumbags widely known for what they are before it is too late is to investigate and expose them. They always slip up sooner or later and when they do it must not be ignored. Ignorance is one stepping-stone on the way to fascism. Thanks to Charles for keeping the english speaking audience informed and also shutting down connections to those who reach out to the scumbags.

280 J.S.  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:57:33pm

re: #272 WrathofG-d

you don't want to know what the BBC has been reporting.

281 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:57:36pm

More likely the Syrians will say Israel used a dirty bomb to cover up their illegal bombing of their peaceful energy alternative. Wait, I don't want to give them any ideas....damn too late.

282 Daisy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:57:51pm

re: #242 J.S.

In haste, J.S., a P.S. - I'm TV free. I don't like the way TV sounds or looks. I've seen Fox, of course, and think it's reasonable to attribute the demise of TV news in general, not only to the biases - but to the tendency of CNN etc. to follow the trashy format of Fox instead of simply admitting their bias. Sorry to hit and run - dinner prep awaits.

283 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:57:58pm

re: #272 WrathofG-d

wayy off topic but again interesting to share.

Family members are in Israel today. They were visiting Sderot when the "red alert" siren went off. They immediately went rushing to the nearest bomb shelter.

Glad to hear the Truce is still in order.

Did the Israelis shoot back?

No?

See? Truce!

/

284 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:58:32pm

Eh chem Ol lizarDs: Russia To Sell Heavy Weaponry To Lebanon.

The Arab/Russian axis.
Sounds familiar.

285 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:59:12pm

re: #269 Charles

I still would not want anything to do with them.

(To a few others, not Charles -- he understands)

One must do what one believes to be right.
One's sense of personal integrity is critical.

286 HBob  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:59:26pm

I mostly disturbed by those chairs on the set.

Are they also coolers?

Are they full of Belgian Ale?

Are they broadcasting in Wanka-vision and if I watch the video is some guys butt going to fall out of my my monitor?

I just wonderin'.

287 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:59:47pm

#263 Charles

I didn't say John Bolton supports the VB.

I put him on the side of the Gaffney, Ye'or, Bostom side because of his association with the Atlas Shrugs website.

As I said, I have a hard time believing these people are not familiar with the argument that is going on.

Don't you find it hard to believe they don't know?

288 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 2:59:55pm

Well at least if the Russians sell more weapons to the Arabs, all my Army training in identification of Russian equipment won't go to waste. Yippy.

289 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:00:24pm

OMG now FOX is comparing the Obama Family to the Huxtables.

Do I really have to listen to them anymore?

290 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:00:26pm

re: #284 WrathofG-d

Eh chem Ol lizarDs: Russia To Sell Heavy Weaponry To Lebanon.

The Arab/Russian axis.
Sounds familiar.

1967 redux?

Where's that "6 Days, Bitch!" t-shirt...

291 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:00:27pm

re: #199 Spiny Norman

No, I think McCain himself chose her, against the advice of (at least some of) his advisors. Considering how much energy she added to an otherwise floundering campaign, it was a wise one. It just wasn't enough. 5 million GOP voters stayed home because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for McCain.

I also love how the criticism is presented. The guy says that they were coaching Palin for her debate and that she didn't already know everything they wanted her to know. Which I would assume is why you coach someone: so that they absorb things they didn't already know and learn how to use those things to good effect. (He also backs off the specific criticisms in the Cameron report about Palin's abject ignorance about Africa and NAFTA.)

The guy is every bit the jerk Palin said he was.

292 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:01:15pm

re: #288 the1sgjohns

Well at least if the Russians sell more weapons to the Arabs, all my Army training in identification of Russian equipment won't go to waste. Yippy.

Maybe the Russians would like some flaming hoops? The Arabs could trade flaming hoops for heavy weapons!

293 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:01:22pm

re: #288 the1sgjohns

Well at least if the Russians sell more weapons to the Arabs, all my Army training in identification of Russian equipment won't go to waste. Yippy.

Well i don't have that much training in identifying Russian weapons, but aren't they usually the burnt out hulks on the side of the road?

294 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:01:32pm
295 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:01:40pm

re: #289 mama winger

OMG now FOX is comparing the Obama Family to the Huxtables.

Do I really have to listen to them anymore?

What the heck to they have in common other than color?

296 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:01:49pm

re: #288 the1sgjohns

Well at least if the Russians sell more weapons to the Arabs, all my Army training in identification of Russian equipment won't go to waste. Yippy.

More targets for IAF pilots.

Let's hope the Israeli government has the will to do what is necessary. Our certainly won't.

297 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:02:05pm

re: #289 mama winger

OMG now FOX is comparing the Obama Family to the Huxtables.

That's unfair. I dislike a lot of things about Barrack Obama, but I've never seen him wearing one of those dreadful sweaters.

298 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:02:09pm

re: #294 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, they will soon add to that comparisons with King Arthur.

Then he can have his Knights of the Huxtables.

One day when you least expect it I shall jump out of the bushes and beat you senseless.

299 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:02:19pm
300 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:02:35pm

*Ours*

PIMF

301 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:02:52pm

re: #295 Silhouette

What the heck to they have in common other than color?

Don't talk about color. Obama is post-racial. Didn't you get the memo ?

302 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:02:57pm

re: #290 Spiny Norman

1967 redux?

Where's that "6 Days, Bitch!" t-shirt...

You're mistaken, the Six-Day War was a stunning Arab military victory. Just look at any Arab history textbook if you don't believe me.

303 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:01pm

(small voice) I liked Cliff's sweaters.

304 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:06pm
305 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:13pm

re: #289 mama winger

OMG now FOX is comparing the Obama Family to the Huxtables.

Do I really have to listen to them anymore?

I predict a return of the Jimmy Carter version of fireside chats from the White House, but with solid-color cardigans replaced with Cliff Huxtable pullovers.

306 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:34pm

re: #299 buzzsawmonkey

I see we were both traumatized by those sweaters.

307 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:43pm

#269 Charles,

I'm not trying to talk you into supporting VB. I said let's analyze the dynamic of the counter-Jihad movement.

The intellectual heft seems to be aligned with the VB side.

That's not to say you aren't a smart guy, or that Rusty Shackleford isn't a smart guy.

But I'll vouch for myself. I'm not that smart.

But, whether we are intellectual giants or not, Rusty, Charles, Jammie Wearing Foor, Thanos, Killian Bundy, etc., we aren't writing books that are effecting policy, are we?

308 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:45pm

re: #298 mama winger

One day when you least expect it I shall jump out of the bushes and beat you senseless.

It's just a model.

309 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:46pm

re: #304 buzzsawmonkey

In a good way, right?

There is no good way. Prepare to die.

310 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:58pm

re: #303 Silhouette

(small voice) I liked Cliff's sweaters.

CRUCIFY HER! CRUCIFY HER!

311 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:03:59pm
312 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:04:42pm

re: #289 mama winger

OMG now FOX is comparing the Obama Family to the Huxtables.

Do I really have to listen to them anymore?

No you don't. TURN THE DAMN THING OFF!

313 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:04:43pm

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

Heathcliff Huxtable was on a Missoni from God.

See ? this is what I'm talkin about.

314 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:04:51pm

re: #283 Spiny Norman

Did the Israelis shoot back?

No?

See? Truce!

/

That would be funny if it weren't so true.

315 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:05:00pm

With regard to my comment at #307, let me be clear this is speculation, but I would have to wonder if that has something to do with Robert Spencer's declaration that "reasonable people can differ on this subject."

See what I mean?

316 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:05:13pm

re: #302 Occasional Reader

You're mistaken, the Six-Day War was a stunning Arab military victory. Just look at any Arab history textbook if you don't believe me.

Acolytes of Howard Zinn, all of them.

317 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:05:27pm

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

Heathcliff Huxtable was on a Missoni from God.

Isn't a Missoni one of those little Italian scooters?

318 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:05:31pm

And while on the subject, a quick poll:

Lisa Bonet. Was she... Sexy? Creepy? Or both?

319 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:05:40pm
320 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:05:52pm

Hey let's sell the Arabs the Huxtable sweaters and then they will win their version of their war...Yeah! free market at work.

321 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:02pm

re: #312 Soona'

No you don't. TURN THE DAMN THING OFF!

What I need is a TV channel that only covers these topics:

1. Conservative politics
2. The military
3. Baseball
4. Dogs
5. How to live on no money at all.

322 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:26pm
323 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:27pm

I know Obama can't have much in common with Cosby, because I agree with almost everything Cosby says.

Sometimes, and I know he grew up in a city, up north, and 30 years before me, but sometimes it is like we had the same childhood.

324 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:40pm

re: #303 Silhouette

(equally itty-bitty voice) Me too. A LOT.

325 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:49pm
326 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:50pm

re: #317 eschew_obfuscation

Isn't a Missoni one of those little Italian scooters?

I used one to pick up my Bang & Olfusen Darul Uloom Deoband stereo just the other day.

327 J.S.  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:06:51pm

re: #289 mama winger

Yech...turn it off....(i'm not watching any television "news" programs anymore...just BBC World in the mornings, for a joke...updates on the Third World, Arab nations, etc....)

328 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:07:10pm

re: #318 Occasional Reader

And while on the subject, a quick poll:

Lisa Bonet. Was she... Sexy? Creepy? Or both?

Creepy. I got a really creepy vibe from her. Also that stupid older moonbat sister who bossed her wimpy husband around.

329 freedombilly  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:07:29pm

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

Heathcliff Huxtable was on a Missoni from God.

I thought that was Joliet Jake and Elwood.

330 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:07:31pm

re: #319 ploome hineni

Yes, this I very well know. Things don't seem to have changed very much over there....just the excuses.

331 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:07:35pm

re: #253 Soona'

What kills me is; why don't they just pool their resources and buy a couple of nukes from Russia or China? Why do they have to build them?

They have to pretend to be able to build them. Then they can buy them from Russia or China -- but they'll have to be purpose-built ones that are relatively crude uranium devices, because if they buy advanced plutonium-core devices, it will be too obvious where they got them.

It's like when you help your kid with his or her science fair project: you have to make it look like the kid did it without your help.

332 bosforus  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:07:44pm

Gus - world's ugliest dog died of cancer today.
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
:(

333 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:07:53pm

re: #319 ploome hineni

less familiar than the British/Arab axis?

the Brits have been hot for arabs for centuries

Well the Brits have always been hot for what ever is good for the Brits! It's kinda like having 2 fiances at the same time. Nothing good can come from that?

334 nyc redneck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:04pm

re: #323 Silhouette

I know Obama can't have much in common with Cosby, because I agree with almost everything Cosby says.

Sometimes, and I know he grew up in a city, up north, and 30 years before me, but sometimes it is like we had the same childhood.

it is so obvious why sharpton and jackson don't like him.
he actually did something admirable w/ his life.

335 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:15pm

re: #323 Silhouette

I know Obama can't have much in common with Cosby, because I agree with almost everything Cosby says.

Sometimes, and I know he grew up in a city, up north, and 30 years before me, but sometimes it is like we had the same childhood.

Bill Cosby may be a liberal Democrat, but I can't imagine him feeling anything toward "Black Liberation Theology" but revulsion and embarrassment.

336 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:26pm

re: #328 mama winger

Creepy. I got a really creepy vibe from her. Also that stupid older moonbat sister who bossed her wimpy husband around.

And they named their children Nelson and Winnie.

337 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:33pm

re: #318 Occasional Reader

And while on the subject, a quick poll:

Lisa Bonet. Was she... Sexy? Creepy? Or both?

According to my 16 yr old, both.
According to my 12 yr old. Creepy.

338 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:34pm

re: #332 bosforus

Gus - world's ugliest dog died of cancer today.
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
:(

That's a shame. I bet he was well loved.

/ there is no accounting for taste.

339 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:37pm

re: #326 Occasional Reader

I used one to pick up my Bang & Olfusen Darul Uloom Deoband stereo just the other day.

Any trouble getting it in the spacious trunk?

340 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:45pm

re: #290 Spiny Norman

1967 redux?

Where's that "6 Days, Bitch!" t-shirt...

Sabaton Counterstrike
Kickstart fighter launch
Throttle set to full
Speed king race to win
Afterburners roaring

Ghostlike counterstrike
Takes them by surprise

Score 307
Israelis rule the heaven

Jordan attacks Israel crush that
Futile attempt
Control Jerusalem

Drive back surprise attack
Take the western wall
Next day make them pay
Over river Jordan

Syria last in line
Head for golan heights
Strike without a warning
See the Syria forces falling

Syria attacked Israel crushed their
Lines of defence
Ruling golan heights

6 days of fire 1 day of rest
June 67 taught them respect
Control Jerusalem

3 nations fallen in 6 days of war
Traitorous neighbours
Received as deserved
Under the sun in the dust of the war
1 nation standing stronger than before

First into Egypt and
Sent them to hell
Then returned their forces to Jordan
Climb up the mountains
Where Syria awaits
Break them in hours
Protect holy land

341 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:50pm

re: #336 Silhouette

And they named their children Nelson and Winnie.

Yah! I forgot about that !

342 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:54pm

re: #325 buzzsawmonkey

Missoni is a very pricy Italian fashion designer, famed particularly for his sweaters of the Jackson Pollock-carcrash variety.

I believe you are thinking of the increasingly-ubiquitous Vespa.

Also, Vespa scooters were favored by Mods, whereas Missoni sweaters were worn by Rockers. Wait...

343 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:08:54pm

re: #318 Occasional Reader

And while on the subject, a quick poll:

Lisa Bonet. Was she... Sexy? Creepy? Or both?

Was? Is she dead?

344 Wishing  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:09:11pm

re: #289 mama winger

OMG now FOX is comparing the Obama Family to the Huxtables.

Do I really have to listen to them anymore?

Fox is no different than any sold-out MSM outlet.
fuhgedaboutem

345 opnion  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:09:31pm

re: #291 stuiec

I also love how the criticism is presented. The guy says that they were coaching Palin for her debate and that she didn't already know everything they wanted her to know. Which I would assume is why you coach someone: so that they absorb things they didn't already know and learn how to use those things to good effect. (He also backs off the specific criticisms in the Cameron report about Palin's abject ignorance about Africa and NAFTA.)

The guy is every bit the jerk Palin said he was.

She has been badly used by McCain & his people.
Next time around let's nominate somebody with a little more class & is not uncomfortable being a Republican.

346 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:09:38pm
347 Charles  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:09:47pm

re: #307 Pastorius

#269 Charles,

I'm not trying to talk you into supporting VB. I said let's analyze the dynamic of the counter-Jihad movement.

The intellectual heft seems to be aligned with the VB side.

That's not to say you aren't a smart guy, or that Rusty Shackleford isn't a smart guy.

But I'll vouch for myself. I'm not that smart.

But, whether we are intellectual giants or not, Rusty, Charles, Jammie Wearing Foor, Thanos, Killian Bundy, etc., we aren't writing books that are effecting policy, are we?

Uh, excuse me, but you've put a lot of people on the VB side who have said absolutely nothing about them. Just because Pamela Geller managed to get near to John Bolton doesn't mean he's a VB supporter.

Come on.

348 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:09:47pm

re: #335 Spiny Norman

Actually I have heard Bill say he doesn't care for reparations because it will deepen a already dicey divide.

349 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:10:03pm

re: #284 WrathofG-d

Eh chem Ol lizarDs: Russia To Sell Heavy Weaponry To Hisbollocks via Lebanon.

The Arab/Russian axis.
Sounds familiar.

Slight correction

350 nyc redneck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:10:21pm

re: #332 bosforus

Gus - world's ugliest dog died of cancer today.
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
:(

people shouldn't breed dogs like that.
imagine his genetic problems.

351 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:10:34pm

re: #337 wolfie

Of course, to a 16 yr old boy, a toaster is sexy.

352 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:10:47pm
353 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:10:48pm

re: #337 wolfie

According to my 16 yr old, both.
According to my 12 yr old. Creepy.

Did they see Angel Heart? (Maybe too soon for the 12 year old.)

354 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:10:53pm

re: #343 MandyManners

Was? Is she dead?

Not as far as I know. But I'm just talking about the historical Lisa Bonet.

355 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:00pm

re: #345 opnion

She has been badly used by McCain & his people.
Next time around let's nominate somebody with a little more class & is not uncomfortable being a Republican.

The Wall Street Journal yesterday had a very good Opinion piece on my Congressman, Paul Ryan. I believe they actually called on him to run in 2012.

They said there was no finer conservative mind in Congress right now. Plus he's cute.

356 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:06pm

re: #349 A Kiwi Infidel

Slight correction

EGADS!, what are the Soviet...oops...Russians thinking

357 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:17pm

re: #351 wolfie

Of course, to a 16 yr old boy, a toaster is sexy.

Gosh, that brings back memories!

358 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:22pm
359 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:23pm

re: #318 Occasional Reader

And while on the subject, a quick poll:

Lisa Bonet. Was she... Sexy? Creepy? Or both?

Stimulatingly neutral.

360 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:33pm

re: #151 Daisy

Palin is on the Today Show tomorrow morning. McCain is on Leno's show tomorrow night. Maybe, hopefully, he'll say something about it then.

361 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:11:40pm

re: #356 the1sgjohns

EGADS!, what are the Soviet...oops...Russians thinking

Money and sticking it to us!

362 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:12:03pm

(I express no opinion as to Lisa Bonet's support, or lack of support, of Vlaams Belang.)

363 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:12:09pm

re: #353 stuiec

No. What's Angel Heart?

364 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:12:12pm
365 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:12:30pm

re: #359 Soona'

Good looking and as quoted by the observe above "batsh*& crazy"

366 snowcrash  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:12:56pm

re: #332 bosforus
How ugly, like the cryptkeepers dog. I'm sure someone is crying over his loss. Is that dog famous?

367 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:12:59pm
368 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:11pm

re: #352 ploome hineni

over 40, same thing

*harumph*

369 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:14pm

The Sage From South Central is on.
Click "listen live".

I like Larry Elder.

370 nyc redneck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:20pm

i don't believe bolton would be comfortable on the list.

371 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:28pm
372 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:29pm

Paul Ryan - The Right Conservative

Electable. He won 68% of the vote here in a district that went heavily Obama.

373 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:30pm

re: #315 Pastorius

With regard to my comment at #307, let me be clear this is speculation, but I would have to wonder if that has something to do with Robert Spencer's declaration that "reasonable people can differ on this subject."

See what I mean?

Reasonable people can differ on whether it's cool to hang with neo-Nazis?

374 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:47pm

re: #349 A Kiwi Infidel

Hiz'bsmallah are part of the Lebanese Government now, and have full veto power over any decisions.

ERGO: Lebanon = Hiz'bs'mallah & Hiz'b'smallah = Lebanon.

375 opnion  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:50pm

re: #328 mama winger

Creepy. I got a really creepy vibe from her. Also that stupid older moonbat sister who bossed her wimpy husband around.

This is just me, but if the Obama's are like the Huxtables, I say that Barry is like Theo not Cliff.

376 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:51pm

re: #364 buzzsawmonkey

:O On that note, I'm going to go fix dinner!

377 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:57pm

#347 Charles,

You think I'm out of line? Hmm. Ok.

Sorry.

378 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:13:59pm

re: #366 snowcrash

How ugly, like the cryptkeepers dog. I'm sure someone is crying over his loss. Is that dog famous?

Yes.

379 bosforus  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:14:15pm

re: #360 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Palin is on the Today Show tomorrow morning. McCain is on Leno's show tomorrow night. Maybe, hopefully, he'll say something about it then.

McCain has a tendency to ignore the elephant in the room. I wouldn't count on it. If he says anything it will be the typical half-hearted McCain responses.

380 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:14:21pm

re: #227 Daisy

FOX was foxed?

So much for the future career of "Campaign Carl" Cameron.

He got duped.

381 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:14:36pm

re: #354 Occasional Reader

Not as far as I know. But I'm just talking about the historical Lisa Bonet.

I thought she was drop-dead gorgeous--great bone structure, awesome eyes and fantastic skin.

382 wolfie  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:14:37pm

re: #368 MandyManners

Whack her!

383 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:14:40pm
384 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:14:45pm

re: #374 WrathofG-d

Hiz'bsmallah are part of the Lebanese Government now, and have full veto power over any decisions.

ERGO: Lebanon = Hiz'bs'mallah & Hiz'b'smallah = Lebanon.

And Israel has said that puts ALL of Lebanon's infrastructure in play!

385 bosforus  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:15:00pm

re: #366 snowcrash

How ugly, like the cryptkeepers dog. I'm sure someone is crying over his loss. Is that dog famous?

Quite.

386 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:15:27pm

re: #352 ploome hineni

over 40, same thing

"If'n yur past thirty, yu ain't purdy.

387 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:15:33pm

re: #383 ploome hineni

you mean you actually watched the show?

Most people did.

388 stuiec  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:16:14pm

re: #375 opnion

More like the kid Raven-Symone played...

389 Soona'  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:16:39pm

re: #386 Soona'

"If'n yur past thirty, yu ain't purdy.

////oops.

390 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:16:51pm

re: #364 buzzsawmonkey

Really? I would think that a 16 year old boy could pop up without needing a toaster.

Hmmm...I'm trying to remember back that far.

/

391 logboy  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:16:55pm

U.S. Sends 'X-Band' Missile-Detecting Radar to Israel to Confront Iranian Threat

About 120 American technicians and security guards will be stationed in Israel's southern Negev Desert to oversee the operation, the first time in the country's 60-year history that they've allowed a foreign military presence to be based here.

392 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:12pm

re: #371 ploome hineni

*whack*

*rad*

393 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:16pm

re: #383 ploome hineni

you mean you actually watched the show?

Cosby was the original Thursday night Must See TV.

America's family. In as much as America families are headed by both a doctor and a lawyer and live in NYC.

394 J.S.  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:20pm

re: #380 Intrepid

And other Fox "news" people were backing up Cameron for using unnamed sources -- they would exclaim, "Cameron's sources are impeccable! Impeccable!" yeah, sure....as impeccable as any fraudster who's a wanna-be comedian...

395 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:27pm

re: #386 Soona'

"If'n yur past thirty, yu ain't purdy.

I assume that's sarcasm... because it's of course utter nonsense.

396 the1sgjohns  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:36pm

re: #387 mama winger

I did!, My brother thought my wife and I ran a Cosby show in our house. I told him it was just honest values, not SCREAMING loudest to get your point across. Oh wait...Hizbollah does that and now they have veto power in Lebanon. Hey, maybe I can get my own third world nation.

397 Wishing  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:47pm

re: #391 logboy

U.S. Sends 'X-Band' Missile-Detecting Radar to Israel to Confront Iranian Threat

About 120 American technicians and security guards will be stationed in Israel's southern Negev Desert to oversee the operation, the first time in the country's 60-year history that they've allowed a foreign military presence to be based here.

But will the Zero allow them to stay?

398 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:53pm

re: #358 buzzsawmonkey

Many men have gotten near to attractive women and only later found out that they were batsh*t crazy.

As I can state from personal experience, that is the absolute truth.

She called me a couple of weeks ago, btw. Actually, her equally-attractive and equally-crazy (new weird haircut, body piercings, tats ) daughter tracked me down to get my phone number.

399 opnion  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:56pm

re: #355 mama winger

The Wall Street Journal yesterday had a very good Opinion piece on my Congressman, Paul Ryan. I believe they actually called on him to run in 2012.

They said there was no finer conservative mind in Congress right now. Plus he's cute.


Well, how about Ryan/Palin 2012 or Palin/Ryan 2012?
Their slogan could be, 'Vote for us , cause we look damn good!"

400 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:17:59pm

re: #387 mama winger

Most people did.

Yep. It was truly a phenomenon, that show.

401 Charles  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:18:03pm

re: #377 Pastorius

#347 Charles,

You think I'm out of line? Hmm. Ok.

Sorry.

No, not out of line, just jumping to unwarranted conclusions.

402 bosforus  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:18:24pm

re: #350 nyc redneck

people shouldn't breed dogs like that.
imagine his genetic problems.

Nazi.
Kidding!

403 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:18:29pm

re: #307 Pastorius

The intellectual heft seems to be aligned with the VB side.

Yes- it's a very intellectually hefty mind that can reason itself into accepting nazis as valuable allies. What you call "heft" I call cowardice.

404 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:18:31pm

re: #358 buzzsawmonkey

Many men have gotten near to attractive women and only later found out that they were batsh*t crazy.

And vice versa - remember that picture of Rosalyn Carter with John Wayne Gacy?

405 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:18:33pm

re: #399 opnion

Well, how about Ryan/Palin 2012 or Palin/Ryan 2012?
Their slogan could be, 'Vote for us , cause we look damn good!"

Too late, didn't we just do that?

406 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:18:38pm

re: #382 wolfie

Whack her!

She tried to get me first. I'm still *rad*.

407 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:19:10pm

re: #399 opnion

Well, how about Ryan/Palin 2012 or Palin/Ryan 2012?
Their slogan could be, 'Vote for us , cause we look damn good!"

There's a lot of talk on the radio about how being physically appealing can get you at least 5 - 10 points in elections. Weird.

408 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:19:34pm
409 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:20:00pm

re: #404 Intrepid

And vice versa - remember that picture of Rosalyn Carter with John Wayne Gacy?

Gee there went the appetite?

410 Racer X  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:20:04pm

re: #398 Spiny Norman

Actually, her equally-attractive and equally-crazy (new weird haircut, body piercings, tats ) daughter tracked me down to get my phone number.


Dude....

411 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:20:16pm

re: #398 Spiny Norman

She called me a couple of weeks ago, btw. Actually, her equally-attractive and equally-crazy (new weird haircut, body piercings, tats ) daughter tracked me down to get my phone number.

This could make for a very interesting story. And an even better movie.

412 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:20:24pm

re: #407 mama winger

There's a lot of talk on the radio about how being physically appealing can get you at least 5 - 10 points in elections. Weird.

It's the truth, though.

We all live in TV Land.

413 opnion  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:20:35pm

re: #383 ploome hineni

you mean you actually watched the show?

Full disclosure, I not only watched it, I enjoyed it. Always been a Cosby fan.

414 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:20:48pm

I can personally vouch for Paul Ryan. He is a great guy and a true-blue conservative. He can also work with almost anybody. People here love him and his young family. Very down to earth, yet brilliant.

415 Intrepid  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:21:06pm

re: #394 J.S.

And other Fox "news" people were backing up Cameron for using unnamed sources -- they would exclaim, "Cameron's sources are impeccable! Impeccable!" yeah, sure....as impeccable as any fraudster who's a wanna-be comedian...

I think Greta called him on it - I read that somewhere today. Maybe on Hot Air?

/scratches head, tries to remember.....

416 nyc redneck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:21:27pm

re: #407 mama winger

There's a lot of talk on the radio about how being physically appealing can get you at least 5 - 10 points in elections. Weird.

that is human nature. people are attracted to attractive things.

417 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:21:41pm

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey

When we finally become "post-racial", it will be because of the Bill Cosbys.

418 opnion  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:22:07pm

re: #394 J.S.

And other Fox "news" people were backing up Cameron for using unnamed sources -- they would exclaim, "Cameron's sources are impeccable! Impeccable!" yeah, sure....as impeccable as any fraudster who's a wanna-be comedian...

Did Campaign Carl get busted?

419 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:22:17pm

re: #393 Silhouette

America's family. In as much as America families are headed by both a doctor and a lawyer and live in NYC.

And have magic pixies on call to hand-wash all the kids' designer clothes.

420 Pastorius  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:22:23pm

#403 Sharmuta,
You'd put yourself on the same intellectual level with Bostom, Ye'or, and Spencer?

Ok, go ahead. I won't.

Martin Heidegger and Carl Jung, among others, put themselves on the wrong side of history with regard to the Nazis.

Being very intelligent does not preclude one from making bad moral decisions, or from being able to see the forest through the trees when it comes to dangerous political winds.

And vice versa, idiots can see Nazis are bad.

Neither smart people or dumb people have been able to corner the market on morality.

421 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:22:30pm

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey

I think people liked the Cosby show because, first of all he is just plain funny, and secondly because it truly WAS post-racial.

422 Occasional Reader  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:23:23pm

re: #421 mama winger

I think people liked the Cosby show because, first of all he is just plain funny, and secondly because it truly WAS post-racial.

Plus, Lisa Bonet was sexy. And creepy.

423 mama winger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:23:43pm

re: #422 Occasional Reader

Plus, Lisa Bonet was sexy. And creepy.

Well yeah, there's that.

424 WrathofG-d  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:23:46pm

re: #384 Nevergiveup

And it should have been the 1st (er 2nd time).

War is war. Its ugly, get it over quickly.

425 Maximu§  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:05pm

re: #416 nyc redneck

that is human nature. people are attracted to attractive things.

Like you?

426 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:13pm

re: #410 Racer X

Dude....

re: #411 Occasional Reader

This could make for a very interesting story. And an even better movie.

Both mother (36) and daughter (18) would be really gorgeous young women if it weren't for the, as I see it now, self-mutilation.

427 HoosierHoops  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:19pm

re: #358 buzzsawmonkey

Many men have gotten near to attractive women and only later found out that they were batsh*t crazy.

There is a difference between never considering a second date..and finding out after they get married..omg! That dude/duddete is frinking crazy as a bed bug!
Then you've got a problem...

428 J.S.  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:35pm

re: #415 Intrepid

(the next morning, after Cameron's "revelations", the two morning people were defending Cameron's source -- and stated his sources were "impeccable" -- the hosts, though, didn't like the fact that an adviser would have turned so quickly on Palin and leak nasty stuff...o well, now, I guess we know why..)

429 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:37pm

re: #422 Occasional Reader

Plus, Lisa Bonet was sexy. And creepy.

Perhaps ethereal.

430 Nevergiveup  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:47pm

I'm watching the history channel. Gen Paulis and his 6th Army is advancing towards Stalingrad lead by the 16th panzers. It's looking good for them. What could possibly go wrong?

431 Silhouette  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:24:48pm

re: #419 Occasional Reader

And have magic pixies on call to hand-wash all the kids' designer clothes.

Yeah. Carole didn't even work, but the Bradys had a maid.

When did they clean?

432 opnion  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 3:25:05pm

re: #408 buzzsawmonkey

I remember Cosby being raked over the coals when the show was current because he was showing a middle-class family with two parents who were prosperous and interested in imparting middle-class values to their contentious brood. This did not sit well with the "disavowal of middleclassness/keepin' it real" crowd.

Of course, showing something above the level of the "Good Times" project comedy was precisely the point. For that matter, having Cliff be a gynecologist with a multiracial clientele was a brilliant swipe at any lingering "black men are after our white women" bigotry.

The show--not to mention the huge amount of money Cosby made from it--were a great big "Yes We Can" accomplished in the marketplace long before Barack Obama was a gleam in Bill Ayers' eye.

What I never understood about "Good Times", both parents worked, why were they living in Public Housing?

433