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Overnight Open Thread

Open | Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 11:31:00 pm PST

Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.

George Orwell

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775 comments

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1 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:31:45pm

New computer, new thread! Woohoo!

2 BlueCanuck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:32:27pm

Ah, ask and you shall receive. Welcome on and all to the open thread. Please leave all kook theories at the door. This is liberty hall. You can spit on the mats and call the cat a bastard.

3 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:34:13pm

Orwell was a prophet

4 nnorb  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:34:44pm

Oooo a new thread

5 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:35:03pm

re: #1 TheMatrix31

New computer, new thread! Woohoo!

Old computer, new thread! WooHoo!

6 fon_win  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:35:13pm

Well... I just went to do a google search.

the google home page has a tribute to veterans day.


/ goes and looks out side to see if pigs are flying.

[Link: www.google.com...]

7 redc1c4  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:36:08pm

tin foil optional, drinking mandatory.

/change!

8 BlueCanuck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:37:32pm

re: #6 fon_win

Nice, and how long did it take them to get their act together? Unfortunately the Canadian version isn't up yet.

9 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:37:36pm

re: #6 fon_win

Well... I just went to do a google search.

the google home page has a tribute to veterans day.


/ goes and looks out side to see if pigs are flying.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Wow! I take back about 5% of the nasty things I've called them over the years.

10 SummerSong  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:38:02pm

re: #6 fon_win

Well... I just went to do a google search.

the google home page has a tribute to veterans day.


/ goes and looks out side to see if pigs are flying.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Yeah and I hear some people are even proud to fly the American flag now....

11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:38:22pm

re: #8 BlueCanuck

Nice, and how long did it take them to get their act together? Unfortunately the Canadian version isn't up yet.

Is it Veterans Day up by you also?

12 Random_Lizard  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:38:58pm

re: #6 fon_win

Noticed the Google Veterans Day thing, just before this post went up! Does this mean they will give us the long awaited Memorial Day post?

13 redc1c4  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:39:42pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

Orwell was a prophet

Murphy was an optimist.

14 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:39:50pm

re: #10 SummerSong

Yeah and I hear some people are even proud to fly the American flag now....

Well, if the blue field of stars are replaced by a pic of The One™....

15 nnorb  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:40:11pm

Hi Folks,

I posted this the other night, but, alas it was at the end of a thread and thought I would repost it here. Near the beginning of a thread.

Thinking of doing another video around this, but don't know.

Just for the fun of it I decided to do some checking on the "MANDATE" Obama received in this election.

In order to do that I took the time to go and enter in a spread sheet all 56 Presidential Elections that have taken place here in the United States from 1792 to today. How many electoral votes were cast in each and what percentage of the electoral votes each winning President won with. I also put in every Popular vote since we kept track of those. (Just the last 47 elections, prior to that the popular vote was not kept, or at least I could not find it.)

Here is how Obama ranked - you tell me is this a mandate.

In electorial votes, of all 56 elections Obama ranked 32nd. In other words 31 elections were won with a higher percentage of electorial votes than Obama received in this election. (He received 69.0702% of the electorial vote.)

In popular votes since they have been tracked 47 elections - Obama ranked 28th. In other words 27 Presidents were elected with a higher percentage of the popular vote. (He received 53.2546% of the popular vote.)

Oh and the other one I hear a lot - "He won with more votes than anyone has received in history." Well of those 47 elections since we have been tracking popular votes, 31 of them were won with "The most votes in history."

So... in both electorial and popular he was not even in the top half of presidents winning with the highest percentage. Fun little project, opened my eyes to what a mandate is.

Norb

16 Emperor Norton  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:43:00pm

A mandate is what Peggy Noonan needs.

17 Zimriel  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:43:51pm

re: #15 nnorb

So... in both electorial and popular he was not even in the top half of presidents winning with the highest percentage. Fun little project, opened my eyes to what a mandate is.

The election may not have granted to Obama himself a mandate, but it did grant a mandate to Gramschian incremental socialism.

19 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:44:36pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

Orwell was a prophet

Very well spoken. I spent a lot of years with him (in spirit) when I was working up my adaptation of 1984 for the stage.

When the show was mounted here 3 years ago, the interesting thing was, the conservative drama critics in Denver saw the show as a warning against liberal policies and the liberal drama critics in Denver saw the show as a warning against conservative policies.

Orwell (Eric Blair) was and Socialist himself. The book was not a screed against socialism, liberalism or conservatism. It was a warning against totalitarianism.

My audiences were similar in the way they saw the message of the show. Some would argue in the lobby about the message, each using the work as a club against another's political point of view.

To say the least, it was interesting to see the many ways Orwell's piece effected people. It was also tragic to see how many people missed the point.

20 BlueCanuck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:45:03pm

re: #11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Rememberance Day actually. We remember all our veterans and lost ones on this day since the first one. Thinking about making a long day of it and going to the downtown cenotaph to observe it.

21 Macker  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:46:14pm

In Flanders' Fields - Dramatic Reading

22 redc1c4  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:46:17pm

re: #11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Is it Veterans Day up by you also?

Nov 11 is celebrated as "Remembrance Day" throughout the Commonwealth, although, as here in the US, it was originally known as "Armistice Day"....

right up until Big Mistake #2

23 nnorb  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:46:50pm

re: #17 Zimriel

The election may not have granted to Obama himself a mandate, but it did grant a mandate to Gramschian incremental socialism.

We will all be living here - PICTURE

24 LeePro  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:47:19pm

re: #15 nnorb

WOW!
Good work, nnorb!

You should scan that spreadsheet and put it up on Flickr or Photobucket or something.

Heck, betcha Charles would be willing to post it here!

25 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:47:51pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

I read 1984 years and years ago. Picked it up recently thinking it would be a good idea to own my own copy. Think I'll re-read it now.

26 redc1c4  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:47:58pm

re: #20 BlueCanuck

Rememberance Day actually. We remember all our veterans and lost ones on this day since the first one. Thinking about making a long day of it and going to the downtown cenotaph to observe it.

please do.... it'll only take a pittance of time.

27 shanec99  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:48:21pm

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]
This is interesting

28 Macker  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:48:35pm

re: #20 BlueCanuck

Pray For Peace

29 Adrenalyn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:51:41pm

re: #15 nnorb

oooh
I love facts and figures and analyses

you forgot one though (maybe more)

he got about 17% of the vote of the country

kinda puts it into perspective how many people
"really like him"

30 LeePro  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:52:07pm

re: #8 BlueCanuck

Could it be you are more evil than we are.....................?

Nahhhhhhhh. We are the most evil in the whole worrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrld!



Hi, {Blue}

31 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:52:28pm

re: #25 Sharmuta

I read 1984 years and years ago. Picked it up recently thinking it would be a good idea to own my own copy. Think I'll re-read it now.

And if you want, click on my name, go to my site, email me and I will send you a copy of the stage script in WORD. A number of Lizards have requested copies of my works, and of course, I love sharing.

From my authors introduction to the script...

I first read George Orwell’s “1984” in 1966 when I was 14 years old. I was a freshman in high school and because of the scores on my reading skill’s test, I was placed in an advanced reading class. So I got to read “1984” two years before I was required. At that time I saw the novel as a story about bad men doing bad things to good people. This novel was used throughout the 50’s and 60’s as cold-war propaganda to put a fear of communism in our hearts.

Then during my 20’s I re-read the novel a number of times. At that time, with my idealistic outlook on life, I expanded my understanding of the politics of the book and saw it as an indictment against all repressive governments. So I rallied along with my peers to try and make the world aware that rules and regulations were the touchstones designed to destroy humankind.

Then in 1999, the theater that I work with considered producing the play version of “1984.” So I read the only available stage script (which was written in 1963) and I read the book again and realized that the standard script version was very much lacking and in no way approached the complexities of the book.

That led me to the decision that I would adapt the book to stage myself. In my quest to learn as much as I could about George Orwell and “1984,” I read many of Orwell’s other works and researched page after page of essays about the man and his writing.

And then it was suddenly clear to me. In the context of the story, Orwell never wanted us to consider Winston as a hero, as the protagonist. In the world of “1984” Winston is certainly insane. At times Winston shows signs of having virtue. Virtue is a trait which O’Brien considers a defect. Orwell paints us a world where evil is the norm. We know that Winston dreams of a time when the “Proles” will arise and overcome the corruption of the government. But nothing in the narrative ever suggests that that is possible. The control that the Inner Party demonstrates is supernatural. They can read minds. They know what you are going to do even before you do it. At a first glance Julia appears to be a rebel but it is The Party that allows her to participate in her covert activities. Otherwise how does she avoid arrest for having sex with Party members, stealing coffee, passing notes and is privy to so much Inner Party information? She is not in league with the Party, but she is in control by the Party. Orwell has taken us beyond humanity. We are now in the age of the “Antichrist.” The Party represents the minions of Hell.

(cont)

32 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:52:49pm

(cont)

If my conclusions are correct, then we must accept that The Party really does love Winston and they are interested in his rehabilitation. He is a misfit. Orwell is trying to paint a world that is an exact opposite of what we know. God is out of the picture. Throughout the story Winston shows signs of being normal in this warped society. He thinks about killing Julia. He is at times very indifferent to the “Proles” plight, even kicking a severed hand in the gutter. When asked by O’Brien about his loyalty to working for The Brotherhood, he is ready to “To commit acts of sabotage that may cause the death of hundreds of innocent people.”

So in adapting the book to stage, I have not attempted to color the text with my hopes for humankind. You can say that in the world of “1984” that this story has a happy ending. Winston is saved and Big Brother does love Winston. At the end Winston understands this, he also loves Big Brother.

I think the real hope in this novel is the hope that we would not see the real hopelessness of the story. Is it possible that we been fooled by Orwell? In my opinion Orwell never intended us to see this tale as simply a political tract. He wanted us to understand that if we become complacent in our day to day lives, that if we ever stop examining the dogmas and rhetoric that spew from our politicians, then we ourselves are responsible for the government we get and we have opened the Gates of Hell.

33 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:53:34pm

Walter- I'm surprised you have time to blog. Shouldn't you be responding to robert spencer or something? ;)

34 nnorb  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:53:55pm

re: #29 Adrenalyn

I also noticed that more people voted against him than voted for either Al Gore or John Kerry.

35 BakaRanger  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:54:18pm

I wonder who Obama will invite over for a stay in the Lincoln bedroom.

36 Adrenalyn  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:55:06pm

re: #34 nnorb

I also noticed that more people voted against him than voted for either Al Gore or John Kerry.

excellent !

an upding for you

glad to meet you, by the way

but I must sign off
the missus is turning out the lights

night all !

37 BlueCanuck  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:56:13pm

re: #30 LeePro

Morning {LeePro}. We aren't evil. We are the most liked people in the world. :)

/well except when the Conservatives are in power for some reason.

38 shanec99  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:56:39pm

re: #35 BakaRanger

I wonder who Obama will invite over for a stay in the Lincoln bedroom.


Does it really matter?

39 SummerSong  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:57:51pm

re: #35 BakaRanger

I wonder who Obama will invite over for a stay in the Lincoln bedroom.

It makes my skin crawl. I probably don't want to know.

40 JustMyView  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:58:23pm

re: #29 Adrenalyn

oooh
I love facts and figures and analyses

you forgot one though (maybe more)

he got about 17% of the vote of the country

kinda puts it into perspective how many people
"really like him"

Huh? If you treat the population of the US as 300 million, about 22% of the population voted for him. But that's an irrelevant number, because many citizens are not eligible to vote. The only important outcome is the percentage of voters who voted for him, and that was 52.6%.

41 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:58:28pm

re: #38 shanec99

Does it really matter?

It does, if you're going to stay in it next, and they don't change the sheets.
;>)

42 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Nov 10, 2008 11:59:19pm

I'm waiting until an LGF Veterans Day thread for a special post, at least to me and my family....And tomorrow I'm watching my Nephew, since there's no school. We're watching "Patton" and "Saving Private Ryan".

43 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:00:55am

re: #33 Sharmuta

Walter- I'm surprised you have time to blog. Shouldn't you be responding to robert spencer or something? ;)

He stopped email bombing me. Of course, he never explained how I was "misunderstanding" his comment to me.

To Robert from Walter...

You know, Spencer, I am a fucking writer, I'm not stupid, I know how to use words to present a point of view, stop jerking me.

You said what you said and it is as clear as day. For a matter of fact, I can assure you that in the future, you will be sorry you ever email that statement to me.

It is the clearest evidence yet of your disregard of the racism inherent in these European nationalist groups.

Walter's done ranting...

44 capitalistbaby  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:02:35am

In response to the last thread about Black Helicopter Republicans.

It's a shame that someone making a comparison of Obama's civilian police force to Hitler's own private Army is immdiately dismissed as a kook.

Don't forget that when Hitler rose to power people didn't see him as much of a threat, and most Jews dimissed him completely. No one thought, no one could imagine, that in a few years human beings would be burned in ovens.

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

I'm not calling Obama a Hitler. But it's NOT improper to make a legitimate comparison of policy.

Please watch this video of a former KGB operative, it's truly educational and eye opening.

45 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:03:44am

re: #7 redc1c4

Bushmills neat, please. Could be a long night.

46 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:03:44am

re: #40 JustMyView

Huh? If you treat the population of the US as 300 million, about 22% of the population voted for him. But that's an irrelevant number, because many citizens are not eligible to vote. The only important outcome is the percentage of voters who voted for him, and that was 52.6%.

showing once again that your are a fool, since the only number that *really* matters is how many electoralh votes e gets...

47 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:05:39am

re: #45 Mel Lono

Bushmills neat, please. Could be a long night.

you'll have to settle for "Bushmills sloppy...." someone's already had some from this bottle....

/white smoke

48 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:06:19am

re: #44 capitalistbaby

In response to the last thread about Black Helicopter Republicans.

It's a shame that someone making a comparison of Obama's civilian police force to Hitler's own private Army is immdiately dismissed as a kook.

Don't forget that when Hitler rose to power people didn't see him as much of a threat, and most Jews dimissed him completely. No one thought, no one could imagine, that in a few years human beings would be burned in ovens.

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

I'm not calling Obama a Hitler. But it's NOT improper to make a legitimate comparison of policy.

Please watch this video of a former KGB operative, it's truly educational and eye opening.

Whatever, Pal, we're not the former USSR, or anything close to it. Get lost.

49 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:06:35am

Walter- you rock!

50 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:06:58am

re: #37 BlueCanuck

Morning {LeePro}. We aren't evil. We are the most liked people in the world. :)

/well except when the Conservatives are in power for some reason.

I agree wholeheartedly! I was speaking from the prospective of Goggle... er Giggle... er Gaggle... whatever!

;D

51 JustMyView  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:03am

re: #46 redc1c4

showing once again that your are a fool, since the only number that *really* matters is how many electoralh votes e gets...

Well, yes, but I was responding to the other person's incorrect statement of the popular vote, which didn't seem to represent anything. Of course, it's correct that the electoral college vote determines the outcome. No need to be insulting.

52 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:23am

BTW, night crew- keep an eye on the thread downstairs.

53 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:35am

re: #22 redc1c4

Originally, 11.11.11

All vets stand up and be recognized. Coast Guard 75-82 here.

54 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:43am

re: #50 LeePro

Understood. ;)

/use google as little as possible.

55 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:47am

re: #41 Alberta Oil Peon

It does, if you're going to stay in it next, and they don't change the sheets.
;>)

Well if they don't change the sheets, then we may be able to establish who are bed fellows by DNA analysis.
Might even lead to an impeachment.
LOL.
Please forgive me, it was in bad taste, but could not resist it, when I saw the part about the unwashed sheets... it reminded me too much about the little blue dress.

56 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:53am

re: #44 capitalistbaby

In response to the last thread about Black Helicopter Republicans.

It's a shame that someone making a comparison of Obama's civilian police force to Hitler's own private Army is immdiately dismissed as a kook.

Don't forget that when Hitler rose to power people didn't see him as much of a threat, and most Jews dimissed him completely. No one thought, no one could imagine, that in a few years human beings would be burned in ovens.

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

I'm not calling Obama a Hitler. But it's NOT improper to make a legitimate comparison of policy.

Please watch this video of a former KGB operative, it's truly educational and eye opening.

Please read up on the Schutzstaffel before you make silly assed statement like yours above.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Geeeessshhhh

57 WrathofG-d  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:07:59am

Down with anyone that doesn't believe what I believe.....
I get evil in Winter........

58 winston06  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:08:59am

We may not have any Patriotism left if Liberals can get away with their scary agendas

59 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:09:16am

re: #51 JustMyView

Well, yes, but I was responding to the other person's incorrect statement of the popular vote, which didn't seem to represent anything. Of course, it's correct that the electoral college vote determines the outcome. No need to be insulting.

says you.... obviously i feel differently.

60 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:10:00am

re: #47 redc1c4

you'll have to settle for "Bushmills sloppy...." someone's already had some from this bottle....

/white smoke

If you're gonna have sloppy seconds, go with the best, right?

/more white smoke

61 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:10:22am

re: #35 BakaRanger

Oh boy. Let's not go there. For all we know, he won't sell out the Lincoln Bedroom like the Clintons.

Better yet- let's guess what the unemployment rate will be during his re-election campaign. I pick 17.2%.

62 JustMyView  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:10:44am

re: #59 redc1c4

says you.... obviously i feel differently.

Are you saying you enjoy being rude? Charming.

63 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:12:15am
64 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:12:43am

Really- the wild-eyed stuff is really more welcome at pamela's.

65 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:12:50am

Whew! Finished the calculus...what'd I miss?

66 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:13:02am

re: #51 JustMyView

Well, yes, but I was responding to the other person's incorrect statement of the popular vote, which didn't seem to represent anything. Of course, it's correct that the electoral college vote determines the outcome. No need to be insulting.

In 1990, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college, all you democrats, especially Hillary, said it needed to be removed, and the popular vote should elect the President. Do you still agree with that?

67 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:13:06am

re: #60 talon_262

If you're gonna have sloppy seconds, go with the best, right?

/more white smoke

No, that would be Jameson's

68 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:13:24am

re: #44 capitalistbaby

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere years ago...
Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables us to recognize our mistakes when we make them again.   —Anonymous

69 Opilio  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:13:59am

re: #66 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

In 1990, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college, all you democrats, especially Hillary, said it needed to be removed, and the popular vote should elect the President. Do you still agree with that?

Give or take 10 years.

70 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:14:37am

re: #49 Sharmuta

Walter- you rock!

Thank you very much. And I love cuddly little blue females :)

71 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:14:48am

re: #61 Sharmuta

Oh boy. Let's not go there. For all we know, he won't sell out the Lincoln Bedroom like the Clintons.

Better yet- let's guess what the unemployment rate will be during his re-election campaign. I pick 17.2%.


Good Lord, I hope not, that would cause an unprecendented (in recent memory anyway) degree of suffering in our nation.
How many more people who are financially responsible would lose thier homes to forclosure?
How many more kids would be forced out of school?
How much larger would the welfare roles grow?

A 17% unemployment would be more catostrophic for the nation than the Carter years. God help us if your prediction comes to pass.

72 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:15:17am

re: #61 Sharmuta

Oh boy. Let's not go there. For all we know, he won't sell out the Lincoln Bedroom like the Clintons.

Better yet- let's guess what the unemployment rate will be during his re-election campaign. I pick 17.2%.

I love your optimism!

/

73 itellu3times  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:15:34am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

... I think the real hope in this novel is the hope that we would not see the real hopelessness of the story. ...

I dunno, Walter. I never could quite grok the O'Brien character. Does he, after all, screw Winston, because Winston is a fool?

I'm not sure that Orwell had to have "a point" to it all, but we have some perspective on it that he didn't, that the socialist system indeed does, at some point, die of its own weight. Though just why that should be a surprise, I don't know - sic transit gloria mundi.

74 JustMyView  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:15:35am

re: #66 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

In 1990, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college, all you democrats, especially Hillary, said it needed to be removed, and the popular vote should elect the President. Do you still agree with that?

Well, for now, the electoral college system is what we have. I haven't really examined the arguments in favor of a national popular vote, so I don't have an informed opinion as to whether such a system might be better. Offhand, I'd say that the electoral college has the advantage of forcing candidates to campaign in many parts of the country, and that's a good thing.

75 Killer Tomato  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:16:20am

re: #65 laZardo

Sharmuta went nuts and pounded Cognito, Charles banned 32 people, and oh - someone posted a lovely recipe for a chocolate silk cake.
Other than that, not much.
/

76 stevieray  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:16:24am

re: #65 laZardo

Whew! Finished the calculus...what'd I miss?

Walter and Orwell became catholics.

/

77 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:02am

re: #69 Opilio

Give or take 10 years.

/Thanks for narrowing that down!

78 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:06am

re: #75 Killer Tomato

Chocolate silk cake? Where's the recipe. :)

79 WrathofG-d  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:08am

re: #75 Killer Tomato

all that isn't true is it?
~never know around here.

80 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:15am

re: #67 Mel Lono

No, that would be Jameson's

I disagree...Jack Daniel's Black Label would be the best.

/proud Tennessean and occasional imbiber of JD

81 Killer Tomato  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:19am

re: #68 LeePro

Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere years ago...
Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables us to recognize our mistakes when we make them again.   —Anonymous

Experience is a teacher
But here's what makes me burn
She's always teaching me the things
I do not care to learn

82 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:21am

re: #69 Opilio

Give or take 10 years.

You all realize the election is not official until 12/13 when the electoral votes are certified... and charles this is not the issue that will not be named.

83 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:17:51am

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

Thanks, Darlin'.

re: #71 shanec99

We know his economic policies are going to hurt, yet people want to focus on shit we have no idea is even going to happen like selling out the Lincoln Bedroom. Let's try focusing on reality and not get bent out of shape about things that haven't happened nor do we know if they even will.

84 Killer Tomato  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:18:05am

re: #79 WrathofG-d

all that isn't true is it?
~never know around here.

no - just joshing

(would like a cake though - not the recipe - just someone to show up with a cake)

85 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:18:39am

re: #75 Killer Tomato

Oh [insert deity here]...that's horrible.

I really wanted to keep the recipe for that cake.

/curls up and whimpers

//lol

86 WrathofG-d  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:18:45am

hmmm well trix on me then.

With the tenor of the last 2 threads the banning massacre wouldn't have surprised.

87 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:19:16am

re: #75 Killer Tomato

Sharmuta went nuts and pounded Cognito, Charles banned 32 people, and oh - someone posted a lovely recipe for a chocolate silk cake.
Other than that, not much.
/

Stop making up numbers... my recollection is that Charles banned 320 people for suggesting that the world is flat and that Hitler is a homosexual who is currently mobillizing action to undermine prop 8 in California. I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic. I read the last portion in a news paper at a check out line in a store in east africa.

88 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:20:30am

November 11th, 1918
Armistice Day

Americans sometimes forget that the UK lost more than twice as many men in the First World War as in the Second. British forces suffered almost a million dead, 750,000 of them from the UK itself. This was almost 2 percent of the pre-war population. For this reason, the Great War looms much larger in the British consciousness than it does in ours.

Until the last generation or so, everyone who grew up in Britain knew what "First Day on the Somme" meant, and shuddered at the words.
July 1,1916: A frontal assault by 14 divisions of the British Expeditionary Force along a front of just 25,000 yards near the River Somme in France. The Germans were pushed back a mile or so in some places, not at all in many others. The attack has gone down in history not for the gain or loss of military advantage, which was insignificant, but for the catastrophic casualties suffered by the British forces: 19,240 killed and 38,000 wounded or missing. This was by far the worst single day in British military history, and is exceeded only by the single day casualties suffered by the Soviet Army in a few of the major battles on the Eastern Front in the Second World War. Many of the hardest hit units were made up of men from the same area or even the same city, with profound social consequences for the communities involved

89 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:21:00am

re: #74 JustMyView

Well, for now, the electoral college system is what we have. I haven't really examined the arguments in favor of a national popular vote, so I don't have an informed opinion as to whether such a system might be better. Offhand, I'd say that the electoral college has the advantage of forcing candidates to campaign in many parts of the country, and that's a good thing.

BINGO! And that, my friend, is why our founder Fathers had the brains to make it the final arbiter of the election of the Presidency, so as not to give an unfair advantage to the largest populated states.
Brilliant men, huh?

90 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:21:49am

re: #87 shanec99

Stop making up numbers... my recollection is that Charles banned 320 people for suggesting that the world is flat and that Hitler is a homosexual who is currently mobillizing action to undermine prop 8 in California. I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic. I read the last portion in a news paper at a check out line in a store in east africa.

By the way, I told a lie... a big fat whopper in this one. Can anyone
figure out what it was?

91 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:22:10am

Well time to go and do some chutzpah. Be back in a little while.

/Mr. Chekov, engage the lurking device now.

92 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:22:37am

re: #73 itellu3times

I dunno, Walter. I never could quite grok the O'Brien character. Does he, after all, screw Winston, because Winston is a fool?

I'm not sure that Orwell had to have "a point" to it all, but we have some perspective on it that he didn't, that the socialist system indeed does, at some point, die of its own weight. Though just why that should be a surprise, I don't know - sic transit gloria mundi.

I think O'Brien represents pure evil. Here is a paragraph, from my script, of O'Brien describing the party. Some of this dialog is Orwell's, some mine...

(Winston)
"But how can you control everything… everyone… every thought? Humans can’t live like that… you will self-destruct. Who do you think you are?"

(O’Brien:)
"(Pause… then very slowly to Winston) We are older than the earth. We can blot out the stars… control the weather… we can tear paradise apart… we are the center of the universe. We existed before the earth was created. Who do you think we are? What is there that can defeat us? Mankind has let this happened. You stopped paying attention. You invited us in. The human race has betrayed itself."

That's my interpretation of who O'Brien and the Inner Party represent. Evil, evil as old as the universe. Evil that spans all time and place.

93 Opilio  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:23:09am

re: #69 Opilio

Give or take 10 years.

I was merely pointing out, in my standard obtuse way, that the Goracle won the popular vote, but lost the election in 2000, not 1990 as posited by the distinguished gentleman from the Ozarks.

94 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:23:17am
The Framers were wary of giving the people the power to directly elect the President — some felt the citizenry too beholden to local interests, too easily duped by promises or shenanigans, or simply because a national election, in the time of oil lamps and quill pens, was just impractical. Some proposals gave the power to the Congress, but this did not sit well with those who wanted to see true separation of the branches of the new government. Still others felt the state legislatures should decide, but this was thought to make the President too beholden to state interests. The Electoral College, proposed by James Wilson, was the compromise that the Constitutional Convention reached.

Hasn't changed much has it?

Electoral "College"?

95 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:23:21am

re: #62 JustMyView

Are you saying you enjoy being rude? Charming.

that isn't at all what i wrote...... it's hard to tell if you're a garden variety moron, or simply a pitiful fool that plays at being one.

96 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:23:38am

re: #90 shanec99

The part about newspapers in east africa?

97 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:23:39am

re: #89 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

BINGO! And that, my friend, is why our founder Fathers had the brains to make it the final arbiter of the election of the Presidency, so as not to give an unfair advantage to the largest populated states.
Brilliant men, huh?

PIMF- Founding fathers.

98 stuiec  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:23:45am

re: #16 Emperor Norton

A mandate is what Peggy Noonan needs.

Are you sure she's not more in the market for a galdate?

99 Stonemason  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:24:03am

re: #90 shanec99

I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic

is the lie

100 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:24:06am

re: #56 Walter L. Newton

Actually, Walter, one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes of any stripe is a multiplicity of interlocking and simultaneously competing paramilitary organizations. It's easier to keep your minions as good subservient minions when they know there are other minions in other organizations prepared to cut their throats.

And the multiplicity of "police" organizations keeps the fear factor up in the general population, too, since even if one is fairly comfortable with the local gendarmes, there is always the threat of the "other" police swooping in on some pretext.

If Obama actually carries through with this "civilian security force", I'd say there is plenty of reason to be alarmed. It's not like the U.S.A. is lacking police agencies as it is. I'm sure Charles is right, and that it will never happen. Just another example of Obama mis-thinking out loud.

101 Killer Tomato  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:24:20am

re: #90 shanec99
You weren't in a check out line?

102 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:24:58am

re: #96 Sharmuta

The part about newspapers in east africa?


You are bad baby girl.... really bad. But God bless you.

103 WrathofG-d  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:25:06am
104 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:25:46am

re: #93 Opilio

I was merely pointing out, in my standard obtuse way, that the Goracle won the popular vote, but lost the election in 2000, not 1990 as posited by the distinguished gentleman from the Ozarks.

Sorry, I make typographical mistakes. Obviously unlike you.

105 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:25:52am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

At the risk of invoking the wrath caused by the previous BHR thread, I would have to openly admit that it is not the Big Brother up top that worries me as much as the laypeople that make up the base of his support (not the proles below, most of the Outer Party, but you get the idea).

Note, after all, that Mrs. Parsons was shown to be scared of her own children, not necessarily Thinkpol. It is this "base" that are the real enforcers of the Will, not the blackbaggers of repute.

It is why BHO's election unsettled me. In this case, it wasn't necessarily the promise of a "civilian national security force" or his other policies, that many of said "base's" equivalent in real life happen to be my own contemporaries, people I suffered their boot to my face with growing up in school and are currently occupying the youngest voting bracket. Even more worrisome is if their naivete will continue down to the next generation if they aren't "disillusioned."

106 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:26:06am

re: #102 shanec99

I'm not bad- I'm just drawn that way.

/Jessica Rabbit mode off

107 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:26:32am

re: #99 Stonemason


I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic

is the lie

Dude that is horrible..., I gotta go yall. Take care and keep your chins up. Its lunch time here. Now that is the truth.

108 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:27:09am

re: #107 shanec99

OR IS IT?

dun dun duuuunnnnn~

/lol, enjoy your lunch

109 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:27:42am

re: #106 Sharmuta

I'm not bad- I'm just drawn that way.

/Jessica Rabbit mode off

Cya later baby girl... love the comments. Would hate to be on the wrong side of a debate with u.

110 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:29:21am

re: #100 Alberta Oil Peon

Actually, Walter, one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes of any stripe is a multiplicity of interlocking and simultaneously competing paramilitary organizations. It's easier to keep your minions as good subservient minions when they know there are other minions in other organizations prepared to cut their throats.

And the multiplicity of "police" organizations keeps the fear factor up in the general population, too, since even if one is fairly comfortable with the local gendarmes, there is always the threat of the "other" police swooping in on some pretext.

If Obama actually carries through with this "civilian security force", I'd say there is plenty of reason to be alarmed. It's not like the U.S.A. is lacking police agencies as it is. I'm sure Charles is right, and that it will never happen. Just another example of Obama mis-thinking out loud.

Look, many nations have what Obama is talking about, and they are not the worst for it. France has the gendarmerie, Italy has the Carabinier, Canada has the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and so forth.

111 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:29:41am

re: #74 JustMyView

Well, for now, the electoral college system is what we have. I haven't really examined the arguments in favor of a national popular vote, so I don't have an informed opinion as to whether such a system might be better. Offhand, I'd say that the electoral college has the advantage of forcing candidates to campaign in many parts of the country, and that's a good thing.

edited for brevity.....

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

112 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:31:44am

re: #111 redc1c4

edited for brevity.....

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

I'm just wondering what gives you the right to tell JMV what to post...

113 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:32:40am

I remember reading somewhere that only 60% of the boys born in England in 1896 were still alive in 1920, the rest eaten up by the Somme and Ypres and Flanders.
One of them, however, is alive to this day: Henry Allingham

Henry William Allingham (born 6 June 1896) is, at age 112, a supercentenarian World War I veteran and Britain's oldest living man. He is the oldest ever surviving member of any British Armed Forces and the oldest surviving veteran of the First World War. Allingham is the oldest ever English man and the second-oldest ever British man after Welshman John Evans. On 13 February 2007, he became the UK's second-oldest living person—he also holds the record for being Europe's fifth-oldest living person and the oldest male. He is the joint second-oldest living man in the world, and is the oldest living white male. As of April 2008, he is validated as one of the 25 oldest people in the world, tied with American man George Francis, and, as of October 2008, he ranks among the 20 oldest men ever and the 20 oldest Britons ever.

He is the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland, the last surviving member of the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) and the last surviving founding member of the Royal Air Force (RAF).

114 The Other Les  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:33:16am

Wow!

A cartoonist just gave me permission to use his cartoons on one of my blogs.

Here's his blogspot site.

I think Charles might appreciate the cartoon presently at the top of the site.

115 JustMyView  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:33:24am

re: #111 redc1c4

edited for brevity.....

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

There's nothing clever about what you're doing. You're being insulting and abusive for no reason, which isn't very becoming to you. Please stop it.

116 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:33:31am

re: #105 laZardo

At the risk of invoking the wrath caused by the previous BHR thread, I would have to openly admit that it is not the Big Brother up top that worries me as much as the laypeople that make up the base of his support (not the proles below, most of the Outer Party, but you get the idea).

Note, after all, that Mrs. Parsons was shown to be scared of her own children, not necessarily Thinkpol. It is this "base" that are the real enforcers of the Will, not the blackbaggers of repute.

It is why BHO's election unsettled me. In this case, it wasn't necessarily the promise of a "civilian national security force" or his other policies, that many of said "base's" equivalent in real life happen to be my own contemporaries, people I suffered their boot to my face with growing up in school and are currently occupying the youngest voting bracket. Even more worrisome is if their naivete will continue down to the next generation if they aren't "disillusioned."

I would agree with you if Obama creates some sort of "Obama's Youths" and we start seeing domestic spying right in the home by these little brats. That would be a bit scary. But so far, I haven't seen anything that would suggest that he is headed in that direction. Community service groups are still a bit different than brwon shirted youths.

117 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:34:07am

re: #90 shanec99

By the way, I told a lie... a big fat whopper in this one. Can anyone
figure out what it was?

reading the paper in a check out line....

118 traderjoe9  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:34:21am

Has anyone read "The Immigrants" by Howard Fast? Incredible book. Couldn't put it down last two days.

119 traderjoe9  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:34:39am

Oh? And anyone get COD5 that came out today?

120 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:35:19am

re: #113 Shiplord Kirel

Now that's amazing!

121 stuiec  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:35:31am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

I think what Orwell was trying to say, what Kafka was trying to say, and what the Khmer Rouge demonstrated is that a totalitarian system is a closed system that operates by its own internal logic. All of its actions are consistent with that internal logic and only that internal logic; the actions of its citizens are judged by the same standard, and deviation from it is deficiency, disease, defect. That which is deficient, diseased or defective must be corrected or destroyed, as there is no room for anything within that closed system that doesn't conform to its norms and ideals.

I think the foregoing interpretation is entirely consistent with yours. From the inside, Winston is insane and the Party lovingly cures him; from the outside, Winston is the only sane person and the Party cruelly destroys him. So long as there are free societies external to the closed totalitarian systems, there is hope that sane men will be recognized for what they are and freed from the loving ministrations of the Party.

122 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:35:43am

re: #119 traderjoe9

Oh? And anyone get COD5 that came out today?

No. I got my shots for it last month. I'm ok.

123 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:36:09am

And I am back. Didn't want to answer a question here at work. :(

124 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:36:24am

re: #111 redc1c4

edited for brevity.....

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

touche', that's french

125 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:36:39am

re: #112 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I'm just wondering what gives you the right to tell JMV what to post...

suggest =! tell

HTH.

126 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:36:40am

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

Look, many nations have what Obama is talking about, and they are not the worst for it. France has the gendarmerie, Italy has the Carabinier, Canada has the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and so forth.

And the U.S.A. has the F.B.I., and the B.A.T.F., and the D.E.A.

But in all these cases, the duties and powers of those police agencies are spelled out in legislation, and they normally don't overlap. And they all function lawfully. (At least in theory.)

In a totalitarian state, the various secret and paramilitary police, and "civilian armies" have vaguely-defined, and often overlapping powers, and are often viciously competitive with one another. Ultimately, they answer only to the Supreme Leader.

127 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:38:12am

re: #116 Walter L. Newton

Perhaps that example was hyperbolic, sorry. I doubt he'll get such a comprehensive and organized (as it were) structure up and running in 2 or 4 years.

It's more like Obama was the 'in' thing, and if you didn't, you'd be ostracized for it as a racist or something like that...to draw an analogy from Orwell's other famous narrative, they'd start asking "Do you want Bush to come back?"

I'm definitely hoping that the "youth voter apathy" sinks in a bit in the months following...though unlike Kerry or Gore, Obama was the type of candidate that really appealed to their fancy.

128 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:38:41am

re: #80 talon_262

I disagree...Jack Daniel's Black Label would be the best.

/proud Tennessean and occasional imbiber of JD

Where are you?

Memphis/Germantown here!

129 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:38:50am

re: #115 JustMyView

There's nothing clever about what you're doing. You're being insulting and abusive for no reason, which isn't very becoming to you. Please stop it.

Agreed. If you had said something insulting, like the losers comparing Obama to Hitler earlier, I could understand, but to attacked for your, lol, "point of view" is out of line.

130 Fibonacci  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:38:51am

Some Democrats are more equal than others. They are called super-delegates.

131 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:39:01am

re: #124 Mel Lono

touche', that's french

it was just too good to pass up.... %-)

132 stuiec  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:39:28am

re: #53 Mel Lono

Originally, 11.11.11

All vets stand up and be recognized. Coast Guard 75-82 here.

11:00 on 11.11.1918 - "the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month."

133 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:39:28am

re: #121 stuiec

I think what Orwell was trying to say, what Kafka was trying to say, and what the Khmer Rouge demonstrated is that a totalitarian system is a closed system that operates by its own internal logic. All of its actions are consistent with that internal logic and only that internal logic; the actions of its citizens are judged by the same standard, and deviation from it is deficiency, disease, defect. That which is deficient, diseased or defective must be corrected or destroyed, as there is no room for anything within that closed system that doesn't conform to its norms and ideals.

I think the foregoing interpretation is entirely consistent with yours. From the inside, Winston is insane and the Party lovingly cures him; from the outside, Winston is the only sane person and the Party cruelly destroys him. So long as there are free societies external to the closed totalitarian systems, there is hope that sane men will be recognized for what they are and freed from the loving ministrations of the Party.

Thank you for reading my intro to my script. And yes, we agree. And that's why I think Orwell framed the story in the way he did.

134 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:39:39am

re: #119 traderjoe9

I thought 4 would actually get me interested in a series that was originally "just another WWII" shooter like Medal of Honor...but then 5 went back to WWII and all that hope just dissipated.

/change I definitely didn't believe in, lol

135 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:41:09am

re: #129 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

JMV was one of the eeyores before election night. Always came in with it's doom and gloom and generally being a real downer. If some of us are a wee bit harsh that's the reason why.

136 stuiec  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:41:42am

re: #130 Fibonacci

Some Democrats are more equal than others. They are called super-delegates.

The superdelegates turned out to be the least powerful of all Democrats. They didn't even get a chance to vote properly at the convention: their decision was made for them by the DNC.

137 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:41:59am

re: #128 LeePro

Where are you?

Memphis/Germantown here!

The city of Military, especially Navy, retirees!

138 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:42:46am

re: #132 stuiec

11:00 on 11.11.1918 - "the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month."


You are correct, sir.

139 redc1c4  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:43:02am

re: #123 BlueCanuck

And I am back. Didn't want to answer a question here at work. :(

hey, at least you're w*rking.....

i'm for a bit of fruitcup prep and then bed.

you and Mel keep them in line.

140 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:43:36am

re: #127 laZardo

I'm definitely hoping that the "youth voter apathy" sinks in a bit in the months following...though unlike Kerry or Gore, Obama was the type of candidate that really appealed to their fancy.

I think it will. Here is the last paragraph to an editorial I wrote for the Denver Post. It describes what you are saying above.

"We are seeing the beginnings of America's first political personality cult. It is the perfect storm of American Idol aspirations combined with MTV "quick cut" reportage and mass media's ability to address a eager and willing consumer market right down to the very core of our cell phones."

These techniques were used to appeal to the kind of youth voters you reference above, and just like the "quick cuts" of MTV, that will be the length of attention that these voters will pay to the process. By summer they will have gone on.

141 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:43:38am

Gonna head to the gym for my twice-weekly "keep me from becoming a total nerd" routine. B)

Cheers!

142 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:44:01am

re: #139 redc1c4

hey, at least you're w*rking.....

i'm for a bit of fruitcup prep and then bed.

you and Mel keep them in line.

Got your six pal

143 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:44:47am

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Yup.
Written in 1949. I read it in the mid-1950s. Still scares the crap outa me... especially when I can now see it — almost chapter-by-chapter, page-by-page, and word-by-word — unfolding before my very eyes.

I am terrified. And I feel utterly helpless.

144 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:45:08am

re: #135 BlueCanuck

JMV isn't an eeyore- JMV is an 0bama loving trollop.

145 stuiec  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:45:13am

re: #133 Walter L. Newton

Thank you for reading my intro to my script. And yes, we agree. And that's why I think Orwell framed the story in the way he did.

Thank you for sharing the intro. It made me think about the parallel between 1984 and the Khmer Rouge -- I am working on a one-act play about a woman going back to Cambodia for the first time since she was an infant, to see where her parents died at the hands of the Khmer Rouge.

146 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:45:38am

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

I can only hope they move on, and that rationality eventually starts to take the place of their "metabolism," as it were. That they "grow up." That might take a while though due to the supersonic pace of the high-tech world we live in.

147 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:46:05am

re: #119 traderjoe9

Oh? And anyone get COD5 that came out today?

Waiting for my preorder to reach my local GameStop later today...bastids.

;-p

148 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:46:23am

Google seems to have remembered Veteran's Day.

149 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:47:24am

re: #120 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Now that's amazing!

Even more amazing: Allingham shares his status as world's second oldest man with American George Francis, who was born on the very same day, June 6 1896.

150 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:47:24am

re: #139 redc1c4

Will do. Make sure you clean up any mess when you're done.

151 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:47:47am

re: #128 LeePro

Where are you?

Memphis/Germantown here!

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

152 laZardo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:47:48am

Kay....actually heading out now. When I get back I'm gonna watch Top Gear. New season out... gleee~

153 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:47:56am

re: #126 Alberta Oil Peon

And the U.S.A. has the F.B.I., and the B.A.T.F., and the D.E.A.

They do not have the same powers as a gendarmerie styled force. Obama's description of what he was talking about is similar to a gendarmerie.

In a totalitarian state, the various secret and paramilitary police, and "civilian armies" have vaguely-defined, and often overlapping powers, and are often viciously competitive with one another. Ultimately, they answer only to the Supreme Leader.

Obama's description of what he was talking about is no where near the totalitarian forces as exampled by the Schutzstaffel.

154 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:48:19am
155 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:48:21am

re: #144 Sharmuta

Ah, thank you for the correction.

/updates score card for future reference. . . . .

156 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:50:08am

re: #151 talon_262

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

Robertson County, here! (we should ask them how they'd pronounce "Demonbruen"....)

157 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:50:31am

re: #135 BlueCanuck

JMV was one of the eeyores before election night. Always came in with it's doom and gloom and generally being a real downer. If some of us are a wee bit harsh that's the reason why.

Hate to disagree, but I have to. JustMyView was getting attacked for his/her opinion and point of view. LGF is not a one-sided nor close-minded community.
We can all agree to disagree with whomever we disagree with, or agree. JustMyView never said anything controversial, unless having a differing opinion qualifies as being controversial.

158 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:50:55am

re: #111 redc1c4

Excellent, red!
EXCELLENT ! ! !

159 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:51:02am

re: #145 stuiec

Thank you for sharing the intro. It made me think about the parallel between 1984 and the Khmer Rouge -- I am working on a one-act play about a woman going back to Cambodia for the first time since she was an infant, to see where her parents died at the hands of the Khmer Rouge.

ANd I will give you a tip (although you may have heard this before), write anything down on the page, in your play, just keep writing, even if you don't like something, write it down. You can always go back and clean out the junk later.

It's much better than sitting there thinking "that doesn't sound good," "that's not right," "I don't like that."

That's not your job description (not on the first pass). You are a writer, write. Your job as an editor comes second.

160 The Other Les  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:51:23am
161 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:53:05am

As for the youth vote- I think they might be the first ones to come down with buyer's remorse when they have to work harder to earn less. I mean- they won't have time or money for their cable tv, video games, nifty gadgets, etc. if they're giving all their time and money to The Man. And for what? $4000 in tuition credit? A crappy job that pays sh*t? War in Pahkkystahn?

162 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:53:11am

re: #157 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

True but some of the stuff that it posted was along the lines of "give up it's inevitable". At the times it was posting that rubbish everyone was trying to muster spirits and to keep the fight up.

163 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:53:14am

re: #149 Shiplord Kirel

Even more amazing: Allingham shares his status as world's second oldest man with American George Francis, who was born on the very same day, June 6 1896.

Now that's freaking WEIRD, well, kind of, my Grandmother was born on June 6th, 1899!

164 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:53:21am

re: #156 Intrepid

Robertson County, here! (we should ask them how they'd pronounce "Demonbruen"....)

You're in Springfield or Cedar Hill.

/channeling Karnak

165 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:53:44am

re: #143 LeePro

Yup.
Written in 1949. I read it in the mid-1950s. Still scares the crap outa me... especially when I can now see it — almost chapter-by-chapter, page-by-page, and word-by-word — unfolding before my very eyes.
I am terrified. And I feel utterly helpless.

I have been answering your comment the same way for years. Nothing in 1984 can be compared to anything you are seeing now. Period. 1984 is much more frighting than anything that is happening anywhere.

166 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:53:52am

re: #151 talon_262

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

If we're doing bourbon, I prefer Maker's Mark, unless a single barrel Basil Hayden is sitting around.

167 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:55:48am

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

I think the frightening part was when O'brien was discussing the view points of the other political entities. It hit me like a sledgehammer when he said that their whole purpose was to restrict thought and thinking.

/I shivered for quite a few minutes after that one

168 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:55:50am

re: #166 Mel Lono

If we're doing bourbon, I prefer Maker's Mark, unless a single barrel Basil Hayden is sitting around.

Makers Mark? Seriously?

169 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:55:50am

It seems that Sharmuta can be, well, a little dishonest now and then. A lot, actually.

See her comments on the previous thread here and here?

But wait, she was singing a very different tune not too long ago, wasn't she?

170 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:58:04am

I am going to bed. I've just come off two memorable days having Roger McGuinn (of the Byrds) at where I work, and working with him and his wife. Both nights of the concert were sold out. Our theatre seats 136 people, so it was as intimate as you could imagine. But they were two long days, so to bed.

171 Killer Tomato  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:58:41am

And I'm gonna drag my butt to bed. Hopefully, the rest of me will follow.
'night all!

172 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:58:57am

re: #168 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Do you have a rebuttal preference? but then I'm just a rummie.

173 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:59:20am

re: #164 talon_262

You're in Springfield or Cedar Hill.

/channeling Karnak

Springfield - close to Coopertown. My brother and sister live in that teeming metropolis, Cedar Hill. Heh.

You ARE Karnak!

174 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:59:35am

re: #169 Edgar

Oh look, I see a pest... and just as I was going to bed.

Shake... shake... shake... press... press... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... Edgar-Off, as seen on TV.

175 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 12:59:56am

re: #137 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

The city of Military, especially Navy, retirees!

USED to be. Millington Naval Air Station closed a long time ago (Thank you Mr. Clinton! — /). Rather weak educational facility now.

176 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:00:28am

re: #149 Shiplord Kirel

Even more amazing: Allingham shares his status as world's second oldest man with American George Francis, who was born on the very same day, June 6 1896.

I've been very interested in super-centenarians mainly because of my maternal grandmother, who is 104 and in excellent mental and physical health. People thin out very quickly as ages advance to that level, however. Grandma is only the third oldest person in Lubbock right now (though she is the oldest to retain substantial mental capacity and also the oldest who lives in her own home) but if she lives another five years she will probably be the oldest in the state. Another ten would put her in the top 4 or 5 in the world. Her doctor says she has a fair chance of living to 110. She has a remarkable sense of humor and she initially found this possibility amusing, but then she turned pensive and said, "Take care of yourself, it would be very sad to start outliving my grandchildren."

177 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:01:44am

re: #169 Edgar

You were defeated today and quite soundly, Edgar. Now you come back late at night/early morning and start posting crap again? With no provocation?

Get.Over.Yourself.

178 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:02:01am

re: #169 Edgar

It seems that Sharmuta can be, well, a little dishonest now and then. A lot, actually.

See her comments on the previous thread here and here?

But wait, she was singing a very different tune not too long ago, wasn't she?

I don't see the discrepancy, fool...

179 abolitionist  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:02:33am

re: #48 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Whatever, Pal, we're not the former USSR, or anything close to it. Get lost.

Neither the interviewee in the video or the poster you insulted was suggesting that the US and the USSR were alike.

The former agent had a unique perspective on issues that we should care about.

180 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:02:50am

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Oh look, I see a pest... and just as I was going to bed.

Shake... shake... shake... press... press... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... Edgar-Off, as seen on TV.

He's thinks he's so slick, trying to get his gotcha moment on Sharmuta when she's not here to defend herself....as befitting the cockroach he is, I'd rather crush his little head under my heel than waste the bug spray on him.

181 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:03:14am

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

Obama's description of what he was talking about is no where near the totalitarian forces as exampled by the Schutzstaffel.

And where did I say it was? As it was originally mooted by Obama himself, it sounds more like some kind of a cross between the Hitler Youth and the Sturmabteilung, if we confine ourselves to comparable entities from the Nazi era. Remember I spoke of totalitarian governments of all stripes, not just the Nazis.

If this "civilian security force" was just Obama running off at the mouth unthinkingly, and not in any sort of way intended to be implemented, then we can safely relegate it to the archive of "stupid sayings of the One." That's bound to become a fat file in the years to come.

But if he actually intends to implement such a thing, then that is bad news. The U.S.A. is not in any way under-policed. The only possible purpose of such a force would be to act as an enforcer of Obama's political will.

182 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:04:17am

re: #144 Sharmuta

JMV isn't an eeyore- JMV is an 0bama loving trollop.

Oh dear... must do a spelling correction here. Shouldn't that be "troll-op?" You know, an opportunistic troll? A trollop is pretty much just a whore, isn't it?




Oh.
Never mind. Same thing!

183 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:05:34am

I asked you a question on what you compared the intimidation of free speech to and this somehow means I was comparing 0bama to hitler, edgar?

To say that was a bit of a stretch is an understatement.

184 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:06:11am

Holy guacamole! More supercentenarian news:

Dr. Leila Denmark, the pediatrician who was credited as co-developer of the pertussis vaccine in the 1920s, is still alive at age 110. She practiced medicine until she was 103.

185 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:06:22am

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Oh look, I see a pest... and just as I was going to bed.

Shake... shake... shake... press... press... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... Edgar-Off, as seen on TV.

funny sedgeway. Was watching Full Metal Jacket the other night and looked up Vincent D'Ornorio who played PVT. Pyle. What a performance and he went on to play Edgar in MIB and also in Law and Order. A superb actor.

186 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:06:23am

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

I have been answering your comment the same way for years. Nothing in 1984 can be compared to anything you are seeing now. Period. 1984 is much more frighting than anything that is happening anywhere.

And just to show how dishonest Walter can be, click here

187 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:06:29am

re: #173 Intrepid

Springfield - close to Coopertown. My brother and sister live in that teeming metropolis, Cedar Hill. Heh.

You ARE Karnak!



Aren't you glad that Coopertown finally got rid of that crook Danny Crosby? If I were still going to Austin Peay and traveling the I-24 corridor every day, I'd be ecstatic.

188 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:08:24am

re: #150 BlueCanuck

Oh my! You've given up on guard duty?

What a shame. Nineteen years and counting... will not be able to partake.

/crying in my beer coke Coca-Cola

189 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:08:31am

re: #185 Mel Lono

funny sedgeway. Was watching Full Metal Jacket the other night and looked up Vincent D'Ornorio who played PVT. Pyle. What a performance and he went on to play Edgar in MIB and also in Law and Order. A superb actor.

Mel, I think the word you wanted to use is "segue".

A sedgeway is kind of like a henway.

190 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:08:39am

re: #186 Edgar

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

191 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:09:09am

re: #184 Shiplord Kirel

Holy guacamole! More supercentenarian news:

Dr. Leila Denmark, the pediatrician who was credited as co-developer of the pertussis vaccine in the 1920s, is still alive at age 110. She practiced medicine until she was 103.

WOW! I'm glad she was finally ready to get that gold watch, maybe take some time and travel around, take up a hobby. LOL.

She must be some woman!

192 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:09:21am

re: #189 Alberta Oil Peon

Mel, I think the word you wanted to use is "segue".

A sedgeway is kind of like a henway.

Or a Segway...

;-P

193 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:09:37am

re: #188 LeePro

Ummm, it was requested by a few other lizards. There still is untainted fruitcup for those that still need to think straight. ;)

194 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:10:18am

re: #151 talon_262

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

Geez! I'm so sorry! But we have the entire Ford family!

BTW, next time we have a Lizard meet-up, you should drive over!
email?

195 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:11:40am

re: #190 BlueCanuck

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

I don't expect Sharmuta or Walter to own up to it. Hell, even if there was no possible way to spin it, they'd claim they were joking.

But people can see very well what they said, whether or not they admit it.

I win.

196 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:12:34am

I asked you a question on what you compared the intimidation of free speech to and this somehow means I was comparing 0bama to hitler, edgar?

197 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:12:54am

re: #187 talon_262

Aren't you glad that Coopertown finally got rid of that crook Danny Crosby? If I were still going to Austin Peay and traveling the I-24 corridor every day, I'd be ecstatic.

Oh good gravy, yes! I'm surprised he even ran for reelection. He knew there was no way he'd get it again, not with all the bad publicity he drew with the speed traps and having the city workers help him on his farm, during city business hours!

He got smacked down by the courts several months back because he didn't remember to get the C-town police permission re-upped from the THP for ticketing on that stretch of the interstate. Got a lot of tickets thrown out because of it.

198 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:13:20am

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

Obama's description of what he was talking about is no where near the totalitarian forces as exampled by the Schutzstaffel.

And how do you know this? How do you know that "his description of what he was talking about" is true and complete?

199 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:13:23am

re: #196 Sharmuta

I asked you a question on what you compared the intimidation of free speech to and this somehow means I was comparing 0bama to hitler, edgar?

Nope, it means you saw a parallel between Nazis and Obama before, and now you magically don't.

Will you admit you were wrong?

200 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:13:54am

re: #192 talon_262

Or a Segway...

;-P

damn talon... I almost had it!

segue

201 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:14:43am

re: #195 Edgar

Man, it must be rough going through life with a pair of warped lenses.

202 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:14:55am

re: #197 Intrepid

Oh good gravy, yes! I'm surprised he even ran for reelection. He knew there was no way he'd get it again, not with all the bad publicity he drew with the speed traps and having the city workers help him on his farm, during city business hours!

He got smacked down by the courts several months back because he didn't remember to get the C-town police permission re-upped from the THP for ticketing on that stretch of the interstate. Got a lot of tickets thrown out because of it.

I so wished that the THP would have told him where to stick it, especially since the stretch of I-24 they were patrolling was outside the city limits for the most part, IIRC.

203 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:15:02am

re: #190 BlueCanuck

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

He's just mad because when his buddy came on today and backed him up, we looked up the buddy's post history. The only times the buddy really posted were when Edgar was getting creamed for some petty, woe-is-me post he made.

204 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:15:12am

re: #199 Edgar

So- you admit I wasn't comparing 0bama to hitler, but this was your line of attack just now. Seems you have a pretty weak argument.

205 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:15:41am

re: #190 BlueCanuck

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

No, Edgar was right in his linking to my comment. I was comparing some tactics I see in Obama's supporters to similar techniques as described in 1984.

And my comment above in this thread to Lee Pro was my reaction to a question I have been getting for almost 10 years, since I penned the first draft of my 1984 stage adaptation.

I can honestly say my reaction to Lee Pro was an over reaction. So many times when people discuss the play (or book) with me, it is evident they know nothing about the kind of politics that is being discussed in the story, and I have had people try to compare some of lamest actions by our politicians to stuff in the book.

So, I retract my overall statement to Lee Pro, but I will still contend that we in this country do not have a situation as described in the overall arc of the book.

206 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:15:50am

re: #201 BlueCanuck

Man, it must be rough going through life with a pair of warped lenses.

Well at least I'm not two-faced, changing my opinion when Charles is around.

207 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:17:33am

re: #195 Edgar

I don't expect Sharmuta or Walter to own up to it. Hell, even if there was no possible way to spin it, they'd claim they were joking.

But people can see very well what they said, whether or not they admit it.

I win.

You win? BWAHHHHHH! What do you win? Sniveling, self-pitying, obtuse little toad of the year? Yep, I'll give that to you.

208 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:17:39am

re: #195 Edgar

I don't expect Sharmuta or Walter to own up to it. Hell, even if there was no possible way to spin it, they'd claim they were joking.

But people can see very well what they said, whether or not they admit it.

I win.

Hey fool, see my 205 above, I did own up to overreacting. So shut the fuck up. It's more than you ever do, posting asinine statement here and then going on and on until you simply wear people out with your lame answers.

209 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:18:09am

re: #199 Edgar

Nope, it means you saw a parallel between Nazis and Obama before, and now you magically don't.

Will you admit you were wrong?

If you're this much an anal-retentive moron here, I'd hate to see what a miserable bastard you'd be IRL...

210 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:18:49am

re: #204 Sharmuta

So- you admit I wasn't comparing 0bama to hitler, but this was your line of attack just now. Seems you have a pretty weak argument.

Sharmuta, you did compare Obama to Hitler, by writing "then what you you compare the intimidation of political free speech to?"

in response to the statement: "Well, I don't agree that they are mutually exclusive, but I am not an Obama supporter. Just think it's silly to compare him to Hitler/Big Brother."

211 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:18:53am

re: #203 Intrepid

He's just mad because when his buddy came on today and backed him up, we looked up the buddy's post history. The only times the buddy really posted were when Edgar was getting creamed for some petty, woe-is-me post he made.

Sockpuppet, perhaps?

212 Mel Lono  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:19:04am

re: #195 Edgar

Sorry, Loser

213 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:19:45am

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

Hey fool, see my 205 above, I did own up to overreacting. So shut the fuck up. It's more than you ever do, posting asinine statement here and then going on and on until you simply wear people out with your lame answers.

Thank you. That's more than Sharmuta has done.

214 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:20:10am

re: #206 Edgar

And you think that what happens in Charles house goes unnoticed? Begone troll, your kind is not wanted here.

215 capitalistbaby  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:21:21am

re: #179 abolitionist

Thank you for understanding what I was saying and coming to my defense.

As a grandaughter of 4 Jewish Holocaust survivors I tend to look ahead, just in case something horrible were to happen again.

In no way is the USA like the USSR, nor was I saying it is. The people of the US are different, they are much more free willed, less easily led, and in that I hold my faith in saving this country from communists.

The former KGB agent video should be required watching imo.

216 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:21:44am

re: #213 Edgar

Yeah, but your tactics are as slimy as pond scum. Why do you need to bring up peoples history on the way they post? Do you get some thrill by saying, "Gotcha"?

217 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:22:04am

re: #210 Edgar

So I must have meant nazis and not big brother, huh? You're projecting.

I'll admit I called 0bama a fascist when the civilian corps article was first posted at LGF, and I do see 0bama as a progressive in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, but I don't think I ever called 0bama a nazi or hitler.

218 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:22:36am

re: #216 BlueCanuck

Yeah, but your tactics are as slimy as pond scum. Why do you need to bring up peoples history on the way they post? Do you get some thrill by saying, "Gotcha"?

He probably gets all tingly, like Chrissy Matthews.

219 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:22:45am

re: #207 Intrepid

You win? BWAHHHHHH! What do you win? Sniveling, self-pitying, obtuse little toad of the year? Yep, I'll give that to you.

As I said in my 205, Edgar is correct. And it is my fault. For me, 1984 is describing something that is so far above and beyond what we see happening in this country. As I said, the overall plot arc of the story cannot be compared to our situation in the US.

But, certain isolated concepts in 1984 certainly can be used to compare techniques we see used by people/politicians in the US.

220 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:22:45am

re: #211 talon_262

Sockpuppet, perhaps?

That was suggested earlier. Edgar's been here since September this year, I believe. But the other guy, JohnDakota, has been here a year and a half but only had maybe 30-32 posts at the start of the day. But JohnDakota has shown up quite a number of times Edgar has been his usual peachy, cheery self. Like he's being tonight.

221 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:23:48am

re: #217 Sharmuta

So I must have meant nazis and not big brother, huh? You're projecting.

I'll admit I called 0bama a fascist when the civilian corps article was first posted at LGF, and I do see 0bama as a progressive in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, but I don't think I ever called 0bama a nazi or hitler.

Quite right. Even Mussolini, who friggin' invented fascism, was no Hitler. Still a very, very bad guy though.

222 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:23:50am

re: #220 Intrepid

That was suggested earlier. Edgar's been here since September this year, I believe. But the other guy, JohnDakota, has been here a year and a half but only had maybe 30-32 posts at the start of the day. But JohnDakota has shown up quite a number of times Edgar has been his usual peachy, cheery self. Like he's being tonight.

The plot thickens...

;-P

223 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:24:53am

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

You might have gone a little overboard, but you seem to passionate about the topic you were posting on. It still doesn't excuse edgar from the tactics he's using.

224 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:25:13am

re: #217 Sharmuta

So I must have meant nazis and not big brother, huh? You're projecting.

I'll admit I called 0bama a fascist when the civilian corps article was first posted at LGF, and I do see 0bama as a progressive in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, but I don't think I ever called 0bama a nazi or hitler.

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

225 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:25:26am

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

Fair enough, Walter. Doesn't stop him from being a general pain in the ass, though.

226 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:25:49am

re: #201 BlueCanuck

Man, it must be rough going through life with a pair of warped lenses.

There.

227 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:25:56am

OT about previous thread.

Who needs to be a 'Hitler'? Who needs 'black helicopters'? Who needs 'martial law'?

All one needs is a quart of patience, a gallon o' marketing, a liter of 'education', and customers with empty minds to eat it, and you have a great recipe for destroying a country without anything else.

228 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:25:58am

re: #221 Shiplord Kirel

I think the lesson here is don't engage with edgar. Even asking edgar a simple question is going to be morphed into something sinister in his mind for him to try to use later to smear his personal hit list.

229 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:26:07am

re: #224 Edgar

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

Get behind thee, douche...

230 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:26:26am

re: #224 Edgar

Find a comment where I called 0bama hitler.

231 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:26:37am

re: #201 BlueCanuck

re: #226 LeePro

Band-width, you know.

232 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:26:42am

re: #224 Edgar

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

Okay, spin this.

233 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:26:45am

re: #228 Sharmuta

I think the lesson here is don't engage with edgar. Even asking edgar a simple question is going to be morphed into something sinister in his mind for him to try to use later to smear his personal hit list.

Admit what you did. This is getting sad.

234 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:27:18am

re: #230 Sharmuta

Find a comment where I called 0bama hitler.

He won't, because that would prove you right and take away his little "victory"...

235 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:27:40am

re: #228 Sharmuta

I think the lesson here is don't engage with edgar. Even asking edgar a simple question is going to be morphed into something sinister in his mind for him to try to use later to smear his personal hit list.

Oh...yes. I feel like watching 'Monk' for some reason...

236 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:27:56am

re: #233 Edgar

Admit what you did. This is getting sad.

I admit it- I asked you a question as to what you would compare the intimidation of speech to.

237 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:28:07am

re: #213 Edgar

Thank you. That's more than Sharmuta has done.

I don't accept you fucking thank you. You are so fucking dumb, you don't even realize that I am not saying that there was any problem with my post in Sept. 2008 and my post on this thread tonight.

I am admitting to the fact that if you take both of my statements, stand along, they seem to contradict myself.

They do not. You have to understand MY insight into the book and, of course, my stage adaptation.

But, you jerk off, think that you read minds or some shit like that, so, you are cumming so fast you don't even see that you got your dick up the wrong hole, and you jump all over me.

238 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:29:05am

re: #224 Edgar

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

Actually, you're wrong. Your "facts" become twisted somehow in your mind, Edgar, and you twist others' words as well.

239 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:29:59am

re: #230 Sharmuta

Find a comment where I called 0bama hitler.

Nice strawman. You compared Obama's tactics to those of Hitler.

240 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:30:13am

re: #238 Intrepid

Actually, you're wrong. Your "facts" become twisted somehow in your mind, Edgar, and you twist others' words as well.

Correct-to-mundo... see my 237.

241 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:30:58am

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

I don't accept you fucking thank you. You are so fucking dumb, you don't even realize that I am not saying that there was any problem with my post in Sept. 2008 and my post on this thread tonight.

I am admitting to the fact that if you take both of my statements, stand along, they seem to contradict myself.

They do not. You have to understand MY insight into the book and, of course, my stage adaptation.

But, you jerk off, think that you read minds or some shit like that, so, you are cumming so fast you don't even see that you got your dick up the wrong hole, and you jump all over me.

Time to do what we should've done before, which is to put Edgar on permanent GAZE and not give him the attention he craves...after a while, he'll either get the message or he'll melt down and Lao Stinky will dispose of the carcass.

242 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:31:22am

And here's another little gem I have found.

243 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:33:11am

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

I don't accept you fucking thank you. You are so fucking dumb, you don't even realize that I am not saying that there was any problem with my post in Sept. 2008 and my post on this thread tonight.

I am admitting to the fact that if you take both of my statements, stand along, they seem to contradict myself.

They do not. You have to understand MY insight into the book and, of course, my stage adaptation.

But, you jerk off, think that you read minds or some shit like that, so, you are cumming so fast you don't even see that you got your dick up the wrong hole, and you jump all over me.

Walter throws a tantrum= I win.

244 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:33:47am

re: #243 Edgar

Walter throws a tantrum= I win.

GAZE

245 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:35:07am

Yeah- I magically changed my opinion just tonight to appease Charles that people were out of line calling 0bama hitler- this proves it!

Oh, wait.

246 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:35:24am

re: #244 talon_262

GAZE

Right, when you get busted for lying do one of two things:

1) Throw a tantrum like Walter did

2) Do logical somersaults like Sharmuta

247 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:35:40am

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

Don't hold back, Walter...tell Edgar what how really think!

/

248 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:36:08am

Edgar would probably delve back into my post history and find where I exclaimed "Well smack my granny", and then accuse me of abusing the elderly.

That's called "Creeping Edgar-ism"; ignoring the point the person actually made and accuse them of what you wish you could prove was the point they made. He's done it with Mandy, he's done it numerous times with Sharmuta. He did so with Dianna, and in a rather insulting way.

He's a shit-stirrer, pure and simple. Best if we GAZE, I guess.

249 abolitionist  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:36:58am

re: #215 capitalistbaby

You are welcome.

Experience is a hard teacher, and many fools will learn by no other. Yuri was as aware of that as perhaps anyone.

250 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:37:14am

re: #248 Intrepid

Edgar would probably delve back into my post history and find where I exclaimed "Well smack my granny", and then accuse me of abusing the elderly.

That's called "Creeping Edgar-ism"; ignoring the point the person actually made and accuse them of what you wish you could prove was the point they made. He's done it with Mandy, he's done it numerous times with Sharmuta. He did so with Dianna, and in a rather insulting way.

He's a shit-stirrer, pure and simple. Best if we GAZE, I guess.

Intrepidism - pretending that one meant something different even when the implication of one's statement was obvious.

251 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:37:22am

re: #246 Edgar

Did anybody hear somebody talking?

252 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:37:23am

re: #248 Intrepid

LOL! Granny abuser.....

253 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:38:12am

re: #251 talon_262

Must be those pesky midges again.

/now where did Walter put that bug spray.

254 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:38:15am

re: #251 talon_262

Next month you will be accused of hearing loss.

255 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:39:30am

re: #251 talon_262

Did anybody hear somebody talking?

Buzzing mosquito. That's about it.

256 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:40:01am

I'd tell Edgar to go eat a bag of dicks, but that'd be insulting to the bag of dicks...

257 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:41:10am

re: #243 Edgar

Walter throws a tantrum= I win.

I'm glad you are happy. Ya know, I imagine people like Edgar actually fulfill themselves in some way from the kind of banter they post on blogs.

But people like Edgar don't realize for people like me, this is all just verbal sparing, something I actually do for a living, crafting stage plays and developing plots and characters.

So, nothing Edgar says effects me in any sort of way, except to give me the chance to bounce my word play off him.

At any given moment, I can be ranting, throwing a tantrum, angry, sad, mad, hurt, profound or silly. And all during that time, I may actually be sitting here bored.

Do you get my drift Edgar? You are not in any way in control of any of my emotions. For me, you are like one of my characters on a page, nothing more, and I can erase if I need to.

So, get that, I am in control, slave.

258 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:41:31am

re: #252 Sharmuta

LOL! Granny abuser.....

Reckon if I said "That's a knee slapper" I'd be accused of self-mutilation.

259 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:41:53am

Is it too early to consider some of the recent events in Russia or Iraq as tests for the incoming Obama administration, or am I reading too much into international events that may or may not have happened regardless of the election's outcome?

I still think Hugo Chavez was encouraged by last week's results.

260 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:42:08am

re: #258 Intrepid

Reckon if I said "That's a knee slapper" I'd be accused of self-mutilation.

LOL.

261 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:42:37am

re: #256 talon_262

I'd tell Edgar to go eat a bag of dicks, but that'd be insulting to the bag of dicks...

Not to mention - the poor DONORS! :-O

262 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:43:37am

You hear that, Edgar....we are laughing at your superior intellect.

/channeling James T. Kirk

263 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:44:18am

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

At any given moment, I can be ranting, throwing a tantrum, angry, sad, mad, hurt, profound or silly. And all during that time, I may actually be sitting here bored.

Do you get my drift Edgar? You are not in any way in control of any of my emotions. For me, you are like one of my characters on a page, nothing more, and I can erase if I need to.

So, get that, I am in control, slave.

I don't care about your "emotions," Walter. You throwing a tantrum means you can't make a coherent argument anymore.

Which means victory for me.

264 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:44:46am

re: #256 talon_262

I'd tell Edgar to go eat a bag of dicks, but that'd be insulting to the bag of dicks...

Could not be more lame...

265 LeePro  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:44:50am

Bed.



Score: Lizards 3,495,653   Edgar 0
'Nite, {Lizards}

266 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:45:29am

re: #263 Edgar

I don't care about your "emotions," Walter. You throwing a tantrum means you can't make a coherent argument anymore.

Which means victory for me.

Congratulations- you've won at teH internet....

267 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:45:30am

re: #246 Edgar

Right, when you get busted for lying do one of two things: 1) Throw a tantrum like Walter did...

And to prove my point in my 257 above, a few minutes ago, Edgar was thanking me for being honest with him and now, as above, he is claiming I am throwing a tantrum. I can yank his chain at my will, and he twists and bends for me. I can cause him to go from hot to cold, sucking up to me or fighting back at me.

Get yours today, the Little Edgar Doll. Pull the string and see what he has to say today. Pull it again, and he changes his mind. Pull it again and it breaks.

Get my point?

268 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:46:33am

Night {LeePro}, weet dreams to you.

269 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:47:09am

re: #267 Walter L. Newton

And to prove my point in my 257 above, a few minutes ago, Edgar was thanking me for being honest with him and now, as above, he is claiming I am throwing a tantrum. I can yank his chain at my will, and he twists and bends for me. I can cause him to go from hot to cold, sucking up to me or fighting back at me.

Get yours today, the Little Edgar Doll. Pull the string and see what he has to say today. Pull it again, and he changes his mind. Pull it again and it breaks.

Get my point?

Go to sleep, Walter.

/please

270 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:47:10am

I searched my own comments back to June and I never once called 0bama hitler. Not once.

But somehow asking edgar how he'd describe 0bama's tactics is me calling those tactics nazi. Fascinating.

271 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:47:11am

re: #267 Walter L. Newton

Wow, our very own chew toy. I like this better then gamy buttocks.

272 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:48:20am

re: #271 BlueCanuck

Wow, our very own chew toy. I like this better then gamy buttocks.

Just leave the slobber on it...I hear it makes good gravy.

;-P

273 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:50:06am

edgar is less fun to piss off than robert spencer, huh Walter?

274 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:51:03am

re: #270 Sharmuta

I searched my own comments back to June and I never once called 0bama hitler. Not once.

But somehow asking edgar how he'd describe 0bama's tactics is me calling those tactics nazi. Fascinating.

Stop with the strawmen, Sharmuta.

275 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:51:39am

re: #274 Edgar

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

276 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:51:48am

re: #273 Sharmuta

edgar is less fun to piss off than robert spencer, huh Walter?

At least Spencer has some intelligence, misplaced as it might seem at this point...which is more than I can say for dear old Edgar.

277 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:51:53am

re: #266 Fenway_Nation

Congratulations- you've won at teH internet....

Really LOL.

Yes, Edgar is so wrapped up in his own little fantasy, that he forgets that this is all made up of little bits and bytes, on and off little points of light on a screen, and not a real world.

Does someone like Edgar really accomplish anything by winning a battle with an "entity" at the other end of an electronic pipe? He can call my word play a tantrum, but really, I can sit here and make believe, create, manufacture any sort of scenario.

But, then again, maybe winning has more to do with how you feel inside, than any real measurable accomplishments.

278 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:52:03am

re: #275 Sharmuta

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

LOL!

279 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:52:33am

re: #267 Walter L. Newton

And to prove my point in my 257 above, a few minutes ago, Edgar was thanking me for being honest with him and now, as above, he is claiming I am throwing a tantrum. I can yank his chain at my will, and he twists and bends for me. I can cause him to go from hot to cold, sucking up to me or fighting back at me.

Get yours today, the Little Edgar Doll. Pull the string and see what he has to say today. Pull it again, and he changes his mind. Pull it again and it breaks.

Get my point?

BUT WAIT - THERE'S MORE!

If you order your Little Edgar Doll today, you'll also receive - ABSOLUTELY FREE - a three-pack of SHAM-WOW. No need to use thin paper towels to wipe up the Little Edgar Doll whiz, just pull out your SHAM WOW and make those little puddles disappear!

Get your Little Edgard Doll, along with your free three-pack of SHAM WOW for the low, low price of $5.95.

Here's how to order.....

280 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:53:04am

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

I guess it must suck feeling like a loser all the time then. Poor, poor soul.

281 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:54:12am

re: #279 Intrepid

LMFAO!

282 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:54:55am

re: #275 Sharmuta

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Edgar is Vizzini!

283 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:55:35am

re: #273 Sharmuta

edgar is less fun to piss off than robert spencer, huh Walter?

Yes. At least Mr. Spencer can debate. At least Mr. Spencer knows the difference from being baited by words from a clever writer versus an actual argument that has merit due to it's content.

As I say above, Edgar's only concept of winning is how he feels, whether or not the win can be measured in any concrete way.

284 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:55:49am

re: #275 Sharmuta

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

2) an argument which is intended to distract the other side from the real issues or waste the opponent's time and effort, sometimes called a "red herring" (for the belief that drawing a fish across a trail will mislead hunting dogs).

285 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:56:12am

re: #283 Walter L. Newton

Yes. At least Mr. Spencer can debate. At least Mr. Spencer knows the difference from being baited by words from a clever writer versus an actual argument that has merit due to it's content.

As I say above, Edgar's only concept of winning is how he feels, whether or not the win can be measured in any concrete way.

Walter, you are anything but a "clever writer."

286 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:56:26am

edgar- you are the one presenting the strawman.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

287 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:57:13am

re: #283 Walter L. Newton

Yes. At least Mr. Spencer can debate. At least Mr. Spencer knows the difference from being baited by words from a clever writer versus an actual argument that has merit due to it's content.

As I say above, Edgar's only concept of winning is how he feels, whether or not the win can be measured in any concrete way.

So, Edgar is most definitely a liberal, right?

;-P

288 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:57:30am

re: #286 Sharmuta

edgar- you are the one presenting the strawman.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Now you're getting Orwellian on us.

War=Peace?

289 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:58:02am

re: #287 talon_262

Nope, I wouldn't insult liberals that way.

290 talon_262  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:59:37am

Peace out, folks...sleep beckons.

Edgar, don't take it personally, but I really think you need to work on your people skills.

291 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 1:59:42am

Fruitcup soon!

292 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:00:02am

Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™

Fruitcup is on the buffet --------------------->
Help yourselves!

293 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:00:25am

Good morning, Lizards! Happy Veterans Day!

Don't forget, Thank a vet!

294 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:00:31am

Intrepid! :-)
Fruitcup NOW!

295 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:01:11am

re: #285 Edgar

Walter, you are anything but a "clever writer."

Well Edgar, how many links would you like to articles by drama critics across the country who would say otherwise?

Shall I start by sending you a couple of links to Variety magazine, one review of my play "I Never Promised You A Rose Garden," or the Variety review of the script that has been the center of this discussion tonight, "1984."

Of course, once again, in you own little virtual world, you can claim I am not clever, and, in you would be right, even if no one else agrees with you. Such is the nature of winning on the "internets."

296 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:01:14am

re: #292 littleoldlady

Thanks littleoldlady! (careful, you may have brought fruitcup into the battle zone)

297 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:01:22am

rightside! :-)

Are you a vet?

/because I'm gonna get in an awful lot of trouble if I wake talloldman right now... ;-)

298 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:01:40am

No time like fruitcup time...

299 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:01:54am

Good morning littleoldlady. Your fruitcup is most welcome at this time of morning. Some of us have worked up an appetite.

300 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:02:29am

re: #169 Edgar

It seems that Sharmuta can be, well, a little dishonest now and then. A lot, actually.

See her comments on the previous thread here and here?

But wait, she was singing a very different tune not too long ago, wasn't she?

If you guys follow the comment links back- the person edgar claimed was comparing 0bama to hitler didn't even call 0bama hitler! S/he called it "naked fascism". I guess edgar sees a "hitler" in any comment that mentions fascism in any way, shape or form.

edgar- it is you that are subscribing "hitler" to people that didn't even mention him.

301 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:03:20am

I love you, littleoldlady!

302 Fibonacci  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:03:49am

Lott On How Franken Is Stealing MN Election

[Link: sweetness-light.com...]

This is criminal.

303 Intrepid  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:03:59am

It's time for me to take my fruitcup and head to bed. Good sleeps, everyone! Or good wakes, whatever the case may be.

304 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:04:01am

re: #297 littleoldlady

Yes ma'am. 20 year hitch in the Navy. ;^)

305 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:04:11am

LOL- Orwellian to link to the definition. LMAO!

306 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:05:11am

re: #285 Edgar

Walter, you are anything but a "clever writer."

And you are anything but an informed and/or entertaining poster.

307 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:06:48am

Hey Edgar. I really am going to bed now. You know, you can always click on my name above, send me an email, tell me how you feel, go to my website, read the reviews, you know, get to know who I REALLY AM.

Or, you can float around in your little virtual world, winning at this internet game.

In your case, it's probably more fun to rack up these virtual points instead of interacting with a real person.

But, if you ever want to deal with me direct, you can find my address, phone number, email, enough contact info to, hell, sue me or have me arrested.

I don't win in life by hiding behind a phony name and avatar. You're dealing with a real live person here.

308 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:07:24am

Night Intrepid, enjoy your fruitcup.

309 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:08:29am

Digg wants Edgar back...

/I am out of here. Later all.

310 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:09:45am

Fenway! :-)

Time?

BlueCanuck!

Be careful what you eat...

Sharmuta! :-)

You're busy, or I'd post this for you. ;-)

311 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:11:33am
312 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:11:57am

re: #310 littleoldlady

Thanks- that was great! I love Pixar movies.

313 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:14:10am

re: #312 Sharmuta

Thanks- that was great! I love Pixar movies.

You see, Edgar thought I was going to bed, so he left. See how I can jerk him around in his little virtual world. I guess I won on the "internets" that time. (yea right Walter, now you sound like Edgar).

LOL. Later all.

314 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:15:25am

re: #313 Walter L. Newton

High five!

315 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:15:25am

Night Walter, have yourself a good one.

316 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:16:46am

re: #311 littleoldlady

Thank you!

317 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:16:57am

re: #292 littleoldlady

Fruitcup...greeaat...breakout the Everclear® ...errr....Stolichnaya☭ ;-)

318 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:18:15am

Morning folks! I see that Google has decided that it is OK to be patriotic now that the Republicans are out of power.

319 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:22:28am

re: #318 galloping granny

Morning folks! I see that Google has decided that it is OK to be patriotic now that the Republicans are out of power.

Interesting. Because the Canadian site has no commerative logo this year at all.

320 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:22:43am

aboo! :-)

Last time I had Stolchinaya I DID breakout - in hives. :-(

/doubly a tragedy, because a percentage of me is Russian...

Nice. He and his dog aren't even in the oval Office yet and already we have the New Old World Order...

Morning, granny! :-)

321 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:26:36am

Fruitcup on this thread.

Fruitcake on the last thread.

I'm full. *burp*

322 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:27:45am

re: #318 galloping granny

I was just going to say that!

323 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:29:24am

Happy Remembrance Day to our Canadian Lizards!

324 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:32:31am

re: #322 rightside

I was just going to say that!

You wait. You're suddenly going to see a whole lot of "patriotism." Google, BTW, were prime Obama supporters and I believe I read yesterday that one of their big wigs is on his transition team.

325 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:34:16am

re: #319 BlueCanuck

Interesting. Because the Canadian site has no commerative logo this year at all.

You usually do, don't you? "Happy Remembrance Day" isn't quite right. . . . . "happy" . . . . . how do we phrase this, anyway? BTW, one of the books I am using for WWI is a lovely book by a Canadian author about Canada's role in WWI.

326 tappin52  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:35:23am

Hi folks. Got my fruitcup (thanks LoL). Are there any bleacher seats left for the Edgar stoning?

327 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:36:35am

re: #326 tappin52

Hi folks. Got my fruitcup (thanks LoL). Are there any bleacher seats left for the Edgar stoning?

Next month you'll be accused of being pro-shari'a.

328 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:37:08am

re: #324 galloping granny

I don't doubt that at all. Suddenly, it's "hip" to be patriotic. Patriotism is not something you put on and take off like a garment. Makes me ill to hear these people saying things like, "now we can be proud of our country, because we have the One leading us."

You either love this country with her flaws, or you do not. Either way, She's the best damn country in the world!

*spit*

329 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:37:13am

tappin52! :-)

re: #327 Sharmuta

Next month you'll be accused of being pro-shari'a.

ROTFL!

330 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:37:41am

re: #326 tappin52

Hi folks. Got my fruitcup (thanks LoL). Are there any bleacher seats left for the Edgar stoning?

No no stoning. He's our newest chew toy.

331 tappin52  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:38:24am

re: #327 Sharmuta

Next month you'll be accused of being pro-shari'a.

Dang! I have to be more careful of what I type.

332 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:40:24am

re: #328 rightside

I don't doubt that at all. Suddenly, it's "hip" to be patriotic. Patriotism is not something you put on and take off like a garment. Makes me ill to hear these people saying things like, "now we can be proud of our country, because we have the One leading us."

You either love this country with her flaws, or you do not. Either way, She's the best damn country in the world!

*spit*

I agree. Don't worry though. They'll wake up and smell the coffee when they suddenly discover that the socialist paradise they so wanted has completely destroyed our economy and our way of life.

333 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:42:17am

Morning folks, insomnia's a bitch. Anything entertaining going on?

334 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:44:05am

re: #333 srb1976

Morning folks, insomnia's a bitch. Anything entertaining going on?

Nope. Luckily it is almost dawn here and I have to be out of bed anyway. Field trip day.

335 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:44:14am

re: #332 galloping granny

Indeed. I can't help but think though, that there will be some percentage of devotees, who, no matter what the One does, will worship him unconditionally. I think it's dangerous to pin ones complete hopes on something like this. The rise is quick and lofty; The fall however, will be long and painful.

336 tappin52  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:44:20am

re: #332 galloping granny

I have been wondering just how that disillusionment is going to play out among the faithful when The One's halo loses its shine. And it will.

337 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:44:52am

Good afternoon folks. How are you?

338 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:45:01am

re: #333 srb1976

Morning, that's one cute baby!

339 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:45:26am

re: #333 srb1976

Morning folks, insomnia's a bitch. Anything entertaining going on?

Yup.

Sharmuta and Walter got busted for being more than a little dishonest about this whole comparing the Dems and Obama to facists/Hitler/1984 thing. You can see them try to spin out of it at 7000 RPM on this thread.

340 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:46:39am

Looks like Mr. Dishonesty has popped up again. Going to need some heavy duty bug spray for this one.

341 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:46:41am

re: #335 rightside

Indeed. I can't help but think though, that there will be some percentage of devotees, who, no matter what the One does, will worship him unconditionally. I think it's dangerous to pin ones complete hopes on something like this. The rise is quick and lofty; The fall however, will be long and painful.


You are indeed right, some people still believe that Ole Jimmy "The Mad Rabbit" Carter was a wonderful President. Good Lord, talk about sucking down the cool aid in profuse quantities..

342 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:47:21am

re: #340 BlueCanuck

Looks like Mr. Dishonesty has popped up again. Going to need some heavy duty bug spray for this one.


Who is that?

343 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:48:32am

re: #338 rightside

Morning, that's one cute baby!

Thanks! That was Her Royall Stoutness on her first birthday.

344 littleoldlady  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:49:07am

ROTFL!

Golly, wish I could stay for the fun and games....

Good day, ALL!™

345 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:49:25am

re: #335 rightside

Indeed. I can't help but think though, that there will be some percentage of devotees, who, no matter what the One does, will worship him unconditionally. I think it's dangerous to pin ones complete hopes on something like this. The rise is quick and lofty; The fall however, will be long and painful.

Again, I agree with you 100%. It is that unconditional worship combined with some pretty radical statements about his future plans that makes many sane and reasonable people draw parallels with past leaders who have brought nightmare to this planet.

346 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:49:25am

re: #340 BlueCanuck

Don't you love how he moved the goal post?

347 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:49:35am

re: #343 srb1976

Does that tape read Birthday Girl on her noggin'?

348 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:50:24am

re: #347 rightside

Yes it does....her daddy found the label maker....couldn't resist

349 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:52:03am

re: #346 Sharmuta

Oh yes, I am just waiting for him to dig some dirt up on me now. Should be interesting.

350 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:53:01am

re: #336 tappin52

I have been wondering just how that disillusionment is going to play out among the faithful when The One's halo loses its shine. And it will.

Not for everyone, unfortunately. When people worship another living, breathing human as a god they are not easily shaken from that belief. Look at how many people drank Jim Jones kool aid right to the very end, even when it meant murdering their own children,

351 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:53:04am

re: #346 Sharmuta

Don't you love how he moved the goal post?

Sort of like how you pretended your sudden shift from comparing Obama's policies to those of the Nazi's to mocking people that did was just "asking a question"?

352 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:53:35am

Bye littleoldlady, have yourself a good day.

353 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:54:01am

re: #349 BlueCanuck

Oh yes, I am just waiting for him to dig some dirt up on me now. Should be interesting.

Who is waiting to dig up dirt?

354 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:54:19am

re: #349 BlueCanuck

Oh yes, I am just waiting for him to dig some dirt up on me now. Should be interesting.

I heard you mutilate fruit into bite sized pieces!

355 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:55:14am

digging up dirt is easy....it's digging up something besides dirt that gets a little tricky = )

356 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:55:33am

re: #354 Sharmuta

Damn, that's it I am busted for being fruiticidal. Oh wait, does it have pictures?

/might be able to get out of this one yet.

357 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:56:16am

re: #354 Sharmuta

If they are waiting to dig up dirt on anyone i am outa here, leave the mud slinging to the Liberals. We only have good and decent people here engaging in social commentary and healthy debate.

The mud slinging belongs elsewhere...

358 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:56:45am

re: #353 shanec99

Look for the poser with the most down dings. I refuse to name it or even reply to it at this point. Got a serious case of GAZE going on.

359 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:57:17am

Good morning all! The headlines say PEBO is focused on closing Gitmo. Talk about your priorities. How about someone figuring out where all the money is going and who can stop it?

PEBO and MCCain both said that it needed transparency and accountability before they could allow the "big" bailout to proceed, but now we have MANY smaller bailouts totalling much more and it's as if we're not supposed to pay any attention.

At least the Obamatons can still hold on to their victory buzz.

360 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 2:58:58am

re: #357 shanec99

edgar thinks he dug up dirt on me when all he's done is out the fact he has comprehension issues.

361 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:01:04am

re: #360 Sharmuta

edgar thinks he dug up dirt on me when all he's done is out the fact he has comprehension issues.

All those times I was told "If you can't keep up take notes" was in preperation for times like this.....so confused....again

362 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:02:30am

re: #361 srb1976

It started at #169 on this thread.

363 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:03:33am

re: #360 Sharmuta

edgar thinks he dug up dirt on me when all he's done is out the fact he has comprehension issues.

Heh. Sharmuta you know very well what you said. Neither of us has comprehension issues; we both understand that you are full of shit.

364 akak  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:04:07am
Pakistan sets death penalty for "cyber terrorism".

Sounds good except the mistake/abuse part! Can a jihadist government be trusted with that tool? Hell they kill ya if they want anyways.

365 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:04:46am

re: #360 Sharmuta

edgar thinks he dug up dirt on me when all he's done is out the fact he has comprehension issues.

Shar my ole granny in Jamaica used to refer to some people as dumpling heads.
You know in a meal of chicken and dumplings, the dumplings are a useful filler, but doesnt do much else that is useful.
Well in the case of that person... it strikes me that he is a dumpling head... he has a brain, but its a usefull filler for his head and it doesn't do very much else that is useful.

Ignore the dumpling head... he will fade into obscurity.

366 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:05:31am

re: #362 Sharmuta

Oh....I read all 3 comments he linked to, but I don't see anything mutually exclusive.

Thanks!

367 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:06:07am

re: #345 galloping granny

When will begin to judge a presidency, based on results, and not spin. I want to take them all to task. Compare things like median income, poverty rates, crime, etc. Ask ourselves, after wasting trillions on programs, what have we gotten out of it?

Let's pick education for an example. After four years of a Nobama presidency, Will test scores have improved? Not only no, but hell no! No child left behind? Epic failure! Of course the left will say, "oh, he just needs another 4 years to undo 8 yrs of George Bush's failed policies."

When will these people be asked point blank, "[insert program here] has not improved one iota, and actually has gone down. Please explain to those who produce in this nation, your defense of spending 1 penny more on something that fails completely. Please Mr. President, trillions have been wasted on programs and layer upon layer of bureaucracy, with no improvement. Why are you going to waste even more money?

These people must have their feet held to the fire, and must be made to answer to those who produce. Doing something over and over again, expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity.

Why this wasn't asked of the One during the debates is beyond me. Force him to defend trillions in waste. Ordinary people can see our schools are failing miserably, trillions have been wasted, make him explain why he wants to waste even more money on it.

Now where's the tylenol™

368 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:08:06am

edgar- I think you owe methuseleh an apology. How about that?

369 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:08:36am

re: #367 rightside

When will begin to judge a presidency, based on results, and not spin. I want to take them all to task. Compare things like median income, poverty rates, crime, etc. Ask ourselves, after wasting trillions on programs, what have we gotten out of it?

Let's pick education for an example. After four years of a Nobama presidency, Will test scores have improved? Not only no, but hell no! No child left behind? Epic failure! Of course the left will say, "oh, he just needs another 4 years to undo 8 yrs of George Bush's failed policies."

When will these people be asked point blank, "[insert program here] has not improved one iota, and actually has gone down. Please explain to those who produce in this nation, your defense of spending 1 penny more on something that fails completely. Please Mr. President, trillions have been wasted on programs and layer upon layer of bureaucracy, with no improvement. Why are you going to waste even more money?

These people must have their feet held to the fire, and must be made to answer to those who produce. Doing something over and over again, expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity.

Why this wasn't asked of the One during the debates is beyond me. Force him to defend trillions in waste. Ordinary people can see our schools are failing miserably, trillions have been wasted, make him explain why he wants to waste even more money on it.

Now where's the tylenol™

Careful with the tylenol... too much of it can cause liver necrosis... a terrible condition... especially if you enjoy a glass of wine, or not being described as yellow or rotting.

370 Stonemason  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:09:06am

re: #363 Edgar

Dude...you have a serious problem. I have lurked all night, nothing you claim is real, nothing.

really, nothing at all.

371 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:10:31am

re: #368 Sharmuta

edgar- I think you owe methuseleh an apology. How about that?

Another choice quote from Sharmuta, comparing Canada's HRC to a nascent fascist regime:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

372 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:10:49am

re: #370 Stonemason

Never attack a person who is engaged in attention seeking behavior. You are simply giving in to what they aspire for. Ignore the dumpling head.

373 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:12:22am

And here she goes again, saying that the Obama campaign is the start of
"incrementalism" towards repression, and asks: "You don't see this as sliding towards fascism?"


[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

374 Stonemason  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:12:25am

re: #372 shanec99

I know, but, heck, that last one was un-called for. I have been trying my best to figure out what the point is, but still can't. Guess I' go back to lurking.

375 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:13:51am

A man woke up one morning and saw a mysterious brown line on his neck. After washing and scrubbing it was still there. A couple days later he went to his doctor to see what the matter was. The doctor did a bunch of tests and came up with nothing. Finally he was recommended to check out a specialist. The specialist ran him through a battery of tests and finally came back to the man with a quart jar filled with a brown liquid. The man was instructed to drink it all down. After doing this he swore violently.
"Doc, that tasted like shit!"
The doctor replied, "Of course, you were just down a quart."

376 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:14:15am

re: #368 Sharmuta

It looks like you have a stalker....

And I still don't see how any of this is mutually exclusive

377 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:14:25am

re: #374 Stonemason

He has a personal axe to grind with me and Walter. Next he'll go after Mandy.

378 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:14:50am

re: #375 BlueCanuck

Ba dum. Ch.

379 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:15:00am

Oh, and if anyone still isn't convinced:

Here she is specifically saying that comparing Obama's tactics to those of fascist regimes is legitimate:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

380 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:15:45am

re: #378 Bumr50

Thank you, thank you. I am here all night. And please ding up the fruitcup.

381 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:16:20am

re: #376 srb1976

It looks like you have a stalker....

And I still don't see how any of this is mutually exclusive

I don't care about Sharmuta personally. What I care about is people not owning up to their comments. Sharmuta and Walter offered a convenient example of this.

Obviously some people will not admit it even when they're caught red-handed.

382 Stonemason  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:16:55am

re: #380 BlueCanuck

Thank you, thank you. I am here all night. And please ding up the fruitcup.

Sometimes, I sign in just for the fruit-cup ding alone.

383 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:19:17am

re: #381 Edgar

This is the last I'm going to say anything to you. I stated upthread I called 0bama a fascist. I did this openly. Go stalk someone else now.

384 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:20:01am

re: #367 rightside

When will begin to judge a presidency, based on results, and not spin. I want to take them all to task. Compare things like median income, poverty rates, crime, etc. Ask ourselves, after wasting trillions on programs, what have we gotten out of it?

Let's pick education for an example. After four years of a Nobama presidency, Will test scores have improved? Not only no, but hell no! No child left behind? Epic failure! Of course the left will say, "oh, he just needs another 4 years to undo 8 yrs of George Bush's failed policies."

When will these people be asked point blank, "[insert program here] has not improved one iota, and actually has gone down. Please explain to those who produce in this nation, your defense of spending 1 penny more on something that fails completely. Please Mr. President, trillions have been wasted on programs and layer upon layer of bureaucracy, with no improvement. Why are you going to waste even more money?

These people must have their feet held to the fire, and must be made to answer to those who produce. Doing something over and over again, expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity.

Why this wasn't asked of the One during the debates is beyond me. Force him to defend trillions in waste. Ordinary people can see our schools are failing miserably, trillions have been wasted, make him explain why he wants to waste even more money on it.

Now where's the tylenol™

I don't think you're going to see this coming "presidency" fairly judged, any more than Bush's has been. Maybe in 50 or 100 years.

As far as education goes, I and more than a few other people believe that our public education has become so much of a rotting, stinking corpse that there is no saving it. Fit only for burial. Test scores prove nothing when what they measure is all figment anyway. I got a book about WWI a couple of days ago I intended to use with the kiddo. Thought it would make my life a little easier as it has quite a few activities included. Not even close. The thing is so poorly edited that the kids read about Marine crops rather than corps (that is one of dozens of examples), the author talks about some time that might have been named Berlin maybe having the name changed to New Liberty instead of bothering to use a real town that did change its name, and in the "homefront" section the kids are not asked to imagine a dialogue between people here in the US or refugees in France or folks in the UK but are instead instructed to imagine a dialogue between two women standing in the bread line in Berlin when the bread runs out. (WTF?)

When I started homeschooling I came across just one or two books a year that were unacceptable. This is our fifth year. These days I come across a book that I will not use about every third week.

385 TheMatrix31  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:20:36am

Hmm...I was in class today (Today = still the 10th, for me) and they mentioned that school is closed on the 11th. However, my teachers for my Tuesday classes have not sent out e-mails confirming whether or not there will be class.....

What do you think I should do?

386 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:22:29am

'Militants' hijack supply convoy bound for Afghanistan.

Is it just me, or do these Waziristan Community Organizers militants smell blood in the water?

I'd like to think I'm wrong about the president-elect and that he won't be an amazing collosal f*ck-up, but recent events in Iraq, Venezuela, Afghanistan or Russia as well as the market's post-election day downward spiral has me worried.

I know that there may be forces at work other than those reacting to 0bama's election win, but the fact that he and his hand-picked cabinet advisers will be making the decisions in the 0val 0ffice starting January inspires ZERO confidence in me....

387 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:23:24am

re: #384 galloping granny

I don't think you're going to see this coming "presidency" fairly judged, any more than Bush's has been. Maybe in 50 or 100 years.

As far as education goes, I and more than a few other people believe that our public education has become so much of a rotting, stinking corpse that there is no saving it. Fit only for burial. Test scores prove nothing when what they measure is all figment anyway. I got a book about WWI a couple of days ago I intended to use with the kiddo. Thought it would make my life a little easier as it has quite a few activities included. Not even close. The thing is so poorly edited that the kids read about Marine crops rather than corps (that is one of dozens of examples), the author talks about some time town that might have been named Berlin maybe having the name changed to New Liberty instead of bothering to use a real town that did change its name, and in the "homefront" section the kids are not asked to imagine a dialogue between people here in the US or refugees in France or folks in the UK but are instead instructed to imagine a dialogue between two women standing in the bread line in Berlin when the bread runs out. (WTF?)

When I started homeschooling I came across just one or two books a year that were unacceptable. This is our fifth year. These days I come across a book that I will not use about every third week.

/Perfect example of lack of editing. But then I am not publishing a textbook either.

388 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:23:41am

re: #383 Sharmuta

This is the last I'm going to say anything to you.

Please keep this promise.

389 shanec99  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:24:27am

Guys I gotta go, I don't like being in the company of people with personal vendettas. Petty squabbles belong in a school yard, my 10 year old would find the way this thread is evolving down right obnoxious.

I will come back later when the discussions are more enlightening or at least more pleasant.

Cya.

390 yochanan  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:25:16am

all of this is speculation we really don't know beyond the general liberal agenda what B.O. is going to do and that worries a lot of us.

frankly I don't like using the terms fascist or communist when talking about American political leaders because it generally shows the lack of knowledge of what real fascism or communism is or was. The radical left called 4 American presidents fascist (3 gop 1 dem) and none of them were. Don't fall into this trap and call B.O. a communist. I would suspect he is very much like the Canadian liberal party or NDP or the British Labor Party. Which is good enough of a reason to oppose him.

391 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:25:23am

Morning all. Happy Veterans day. To all the vets out there, a great big thank you.

392 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:26:36am

re: #387 galloping granny

A good example is Kitchener here in Ontario. One of the towns was named Berlin, but changed the name in WWI.

393 freetoken  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:26:46am

re: #381 Edgar

I don't care about Sharmuta personally.


Perhaps some help for you?

Exposure and response prevention for OCD

Exposure and response prevention involves repeated exposure to the source of your obsession. Then you are asked to refrain from the compulsive behavior you’d usually perform to reduce your anxiety.

Studies show that exposure and response prevention can actually “retrain” the brain, permanently reducing the occurrence of obsessive-compulsive disorder symptoms. This type of OCD therapy can even extinguish compulsive behaviors entirely.

394 rightside  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:27:00am

re: #384 galloping granny

There needs to be some metric by which to measure success. We are in agreement on the utter failure of a govt. run edjacashun system. My point is though, to make these people accountable to the producers of this country. Make them defend their wanting to throw even more money away.

ok, off to defend liberty this morning.

395 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:27:06am

Good Morning LGF.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni dismissed as irrelevant on Tuesday a policy statement issued by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in which he called for a return to the 1967 borders, with a few changes.
"As the head of the Kadima party, I am obligated not to the outgoing words of Olmert, but to Kadima's platform, which I wrote and which I believe in," said Livni in a morning interview with Army Radio.


Good Riddance To Olmert

396 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:28:30am

re: #390 yochanan

frankly I don't like using the terms fascist or communist when talking about American political leaders because it generally shows the lack of knowledge of what real fascism or communism is or was.

It also minimizes the suffering of people who actually lived under such regimes. It's like these people are saying: "If living under Obama is as bad as living under Mussolini, hey, I guess it wasn't so bad after all."

397 Stonemason  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:29:07am

re: #390 yochanan

But he is a socialist, that we can say. There is proof in the 'blueprint for change' that was on the campaign website. Do some of his ideas border on Communism, yup, and the way in which Joe the Plumber and various media outlets were treated point towards a fascist/totalitarian bent.

Can the man be defined as any of the above (other than a socialist)? Nope, but as mentioned by those much more eloquent than me, there is an incrementalism that is rather frightening.

398 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:29:29am

re: #395 Spare O'Lake

Good Morning LGF.

Good Riddance To Olmert

Livni will be saying the same thing pretty soon.

399 srb1976  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:29:59am

re: #391 Jim in Virginia

Morning all. Happy Veterans day. To all the vets out there, a great big thank you.

The first year my husband and were married, when veteran's day rolled around I caught him before breakfast to say "thanks for your service" (he's retired navy) He said that's the first time anyone ever thanked him... thought that was sad so I make it a point to check in with at least all the vets in my immediate family (there's 5 counting grampa) every year

400 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:33:39am

re: #392 BlueCanuck

A good example is Kitchener here in Ontario. One of the towns was named Berlin, but changed the name in WWI.

And that is a good example, not all that hard to find. I really hate it when they use "might have done" instead of real history! They aren't teaching the kids history, they are teaching them to start from a preconceived position and imagine how it might have worked out.

They did the same thing with the section on women in WWI. Started out by saying that most women who worked prior to WWI were maids (sure as heck not the case here in the industrialized north of the US or in the industrial areas of the UK, where most women and even many children worked in factories) and then asked the kids to imagine how they would feel at the end of the war when they had to give their job back to a man. Never a first hand testimony about how real women felt at all.

And they did not bother to mention Marie Curie and her daughters, who eventually died from the service they rendered in WWI, driving ambulances equipped with the first X-ray machines all over the Western Front doing X-rays. They saved thousands of lives and did not get 10 words.

401 JimmyTheClaw  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:34:21am

> Three Men on a Hike
>
> Three men were hiking through a forest when they came upon a large raging,
> Violent river.
> Needing to get to the other side,
> the first man prayed:
>
> 'God, please give me the strength to cross the river.'
>
>
>
> Poof! .. God gave him big arms and strong legs
> and he was able to swim
> across in about 2 hours, having almost drowned twice.
>
>
>
> After witnessing that, the second man prayed:
> 'God, please give me
> strength and the tools to cross the river'
>
>
>
> Poof! .. God gave him a rowboat and strong arms
> and strong legs and he
> was able to row across in about an hour
> after almost capsizing once.
>
>
>
> Seeing what happened to the first two men,
> the third man prayed:
> 'God,please give me the strength,
> the tools and the intelligence
> to cross the river'
>
>
>
> Poof! .. He was turned into a woman.
> She checked the map,
> hiked one
> hundred yards up stream
> and walked across the bridge.
>

402 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:35:25am

re: #397 Stonemason

But he is a socialist, that we can say. There is proof in the 'blueprint for change' that was on the campaign website. Do some of his ideas border on Communism, yup, and the way in which Joe the Plumber and various media outlets were treated point towards a fascist/totalitarian bent.

Can the man be defined as any of the above (other than a socialist)? Nope, but as mentioned by those much more eloquent than me, there is an incrementalism that is rather frightening.

Please note that communist Russia was officially known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the NAZIs were actually the National Socialists.

403 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:35:33am

re: #398 Edgar

Livni will be saying the same thing pretty soon.

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
Livni has a very tough election campaign in front of her and one thing you can take to the bank is that she will take a tougher line than Olmert did, if for no other reason than to improve her electoral prospects.
Hopefully she will lose the election and Netanyahu will be elected.

404 galloping granny  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:38:05am

re: #403 Spare O'Lake

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
Livni has a very tough election campaign in front of her and one thing you can take to the bank is that she will take a tougher line than Olmert did, if for no other reason than to improve her electoral prospects.
Hopefully she will lose the election and Netanyahu will be elected.

Won't be hard for Livni to take a tougher line than Olmert did, that's for sure.

405 BlueCanuck  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:39:17am

re: #402 galloping granny

Please note that communist Russia was officially known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the NAZIs were actually the National Socialists.

Missed a good one, The Peoples Repbulic of China.

406 yochanan  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:39:29am

re: #397 Stonemason

the term socialism can mean a number of things everything from social democrats to general socialists on the farther left marxian socialists to communists. Mostly these are different European political parties.

Just as Capitalism and free market has a number of different forms as pure capitalism does not exist either esp in 100% form. for example Conrail and Amtrak are examples of govt owned and run railroads in America. and the recent bank and security bailouts. Under some forms of capitalism the govt often takes over failed firms that are considered vital for one reason or another.

407 Edgar  Tue, Nov 11, 2008 3:39:53am

re: #403 Spare O'Lake

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
Livni has a very tough election campaign in front of her and one thing you can take to the bank is that she will take a tougher line than Olmert did, if for no other reason than to improve her electoral prospects.
Hopefully she will lose the election and Netanyahu will be elected.

Well, you see to have no idea what you're talking about. I meant after the election, obviously.

And God forbid Netanyahu gets back in.