New computer, new thread! Woohoo!

Ah, ask and you shall receive. Welcome on and all to the open thread. Please leave all kook theories at the door. This is liberty hall. You can spit on the mats and call the cat a bastard.

Orwell was a prophet

Oooo a new thread

re: #1 TheMatrix31

New computer, new thread! Woohoo!

Old computer, new thread! WooHoo!

Well... I just went to do a google search.

the google home page has a tribute to veterans day.

/ goes and looks out side to see if pigs are flying.

Image: veteransday2008.gif

tin foil optional, drinking mandatory.

/change!

re: #6 fon_win

Nice, and how long did it take them to get their act together? Unfortunately the Canadian version isn't up yet.

re: #6 fon_win

Well... I just went to do a google search.

the google home page has a tribute to veterans day.

/ goes and looks out side to see if pigs are flying.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Wow! I take back about 5% of the nasty things I've called them over the years.

re: #6 fon_win

Well... I just went to do a google search.

the google home page has a tribute to veterans day.

/ goes and looks out side to see if pigs are flying.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Yeah and I hear some people are even proud to fly the American flag now...

re: #8 BlueCanuck

Nice, and how long did it take them to get their act together? Unfortunately the Canadian version isn't up yet.

Is it Veterans Day up by you also?

re: #6 fon_win

Noticed the Google Veterans Day thing, just before this post went up! Does this mean they will give us the long awaited Memorial Day post?

re: #3 Sharmuta

Orwell was a prophet

Murphy was an optimist.

re: #10 SummerSong

Yeah and I hear some people are even proud to fly the American flag now...

Well, if the blue field of stars are replaced by a pic of The One™...

Hi Folks,

I posted this the other night, but, alas it was at the end of a thread and thought I would repost it here. Near the beginning of a thread.

Thinking of doing another video around this, but don't know.

Just for the fun of it I decided to do some checking on the "MANDATE" Obama received in this election.

In order to do that I took the time to go and enter in a spread sheet all 56 Presidential Elections that have taken place here in the United States from 1792 to today. How many electoral votes were cast in each and what percentage of the electoral votes each winning President won with. I also put in every Popular vote since we kept track of those. (Just the last 47 elections, prior to that the popular vote was not kept, or at least I could not find it.)

Here is how Obama ranked - you tell me is this a mandate.

In electorial votes, of all 56 elections Obama ranked 32nd. In other words 31 elections were won with a higher percentage of electorial votes than Obama received in this election. (He received 69.0702% of the electorial vote.)

In popular votes since they have been tracked 47 elections - Obama ranked 28th. In other words 27 Presidents were elected with a higher percentage of the popular vote. (He received 53.2546% of the popular vote.)

Oh and the other one I hear a lot - "He won with more votes than anyone has received in history." Well of those 47 elections since we have been tracking popular votes, 31 of them were won with "The most votes in history."

So... in both electorial and popular he was not even in the top half of presidents winning with the highest percentage. Fun little project, opened my eyes to what a mandate is.

Norb

A mandate is what Peggy Noonan needs.

re: #15 nnorb

So... in both electorial and popular he was not even in the top half of presidents winning with the highest percentage. Fun little project, opened my eyes to what a mandate is.

The election may not have granted to Obama himself a mandate, but it did grant a mandate to Gramschian incremental socialism.

In honor of all Veterans- US, Canadian, British, Australian and New Zealanders

re: #3 Sharmuta

Orwell was a prophet

Very well spoken. I spent a lot of years with him (in spirit) when I was working up my adaptation of 1984 for the stage.

When the show was mounted here 3 years ago, the interesting thing was, the conservative drama critics in Denver saw the show as a warning against liberal policies and the liberal drama critics in Denver saw the show as a warning against conservative policies.

Orwell (Eric Blair) was and Socialist himself. The book was not a screed against socialism, liberalism or conservatism. It was a warning against totalitarianism.

My audiences were similar in the way they saw the message of the show. Some would argue in the lobby about the message, each using the work as a club against another's political point of view.

To say the least, it was interesting to see the many ways Orwell's piece effected people. It was also tragic to see how many people missed the point.

re: #11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Rememberance Day actually. We remember all our veterans and lost ones on this day since the first one. Thinking about making a long day of it and going to the downtown cenotaph to observe it.

In Flanders' Fields - Dramatic Reading

re: #11 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Is it Veterans Day up by you also?

Nov 11 is celebrated as "Remembrance Day" throughout the Commonwealth, although, as here in the US, it was originally known as "Armistice Day"...

right up until Big Mistake #2

re: #17 Zimriel

The election may not have granted to Obama himself a mandate, but it did grant a mandate to Gramschian incremental socialism.

We will all be living here - PICTURE

re: #15 nnorb

WOW!
Good work, nnorb!

You should scan that spreadsheet and put it up on Flickr or Photobucket or something.

Heck, betcha Charles would be willing to post it here!

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

I read 1984 years and years ago. Picked it up recently thinking it would be a good idea to own my own copy. Think I'll re-read it now.

re: #20 BlueCanuck

Rememberance Day actually. We remember all our veterans and lost ones on this day since the first one. Thinking about making a long day of it and going to the downtown cenotaph to observe it.

please do... it'll only take a pittance of time.

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]
This is interesting

re: #20 BlueCanuck

Pray For Peace

re: #15 nnorb

oooh
I love facts and figures and analyses

you forgot one though (maybe more)

he got about 17% of the vote of the country

kinda puts it into perspective how many people
"really like him"

re: #8 BlueCanuck

Could it be you are more evil than we are...?

Nahhh. We are the most evil in the whole worrrld!

Hi, {Blue}

re: #25 Sharmuta

I read 1984 years and years ago. Picked it up recently thinking it would be a good idea to own my own copy. Think I'll re-read it now.

And if you want, click on my name, go to my site, email me and I will send you a copy of the stage script in WORD. A number of Lizards have requested copies of my works, and of course, I love sharing.

From my authors introduction to the script...

I first read George Orwell’s “1984” in 1966 when I was 14 years old. I was a freshman in high school and because of the scores on my reading skill’s test, I was placed in an advanced reading class. So I got to read “1984” two years before I was required. At that time I saw the novel as a story about bad men doing bad things to good people. This novel was used throughout the 50’s and 60’s as cold-war propaganda to put a fear of communism in our hearts.

Then during my 20’s I re-read the novel a number of times. At that time, with my idealistic outlook on life, I expanded my understanding of the politics of the book and saw it as an indictment against all repressive governments. So I rallied along with my peers to try and make the world aware that rules and regulations were the touchstones designed to destroy humankind.

Then in 1999, the theater that I work with considered producing the play version of “1984.” So I read the only available stage script (which was written in 1963) and I read the book again and realized that the standard script version was very much lacking and in no way approached the complexities of the book.

That led me to the decision that I would adapt the book to stage myself. In my quest to learn as much as I could about George Orwell and “1984,” I read many of Orwell’s other works and researched page after page of essays about the man and his writing.

And then it was suddenly clear to me. In the context of the story, Orwell never wanted us to consider Winston as a hero, as the protagonist. In the world of “1984” Winston is certainly insane. At times Winston shows signs of having virtue. Virtue is a trait which O’Brien considers a defect. Orwell paints us a world where evil is the norm. We know that Winston dreams of a time when the “Proles” will arise and overcome the corruption of the government. But nothing in the narrative ever suggests that that is possible. The control that the Inner Party demonstrates is supernatural. They can read minds. They know what you are going to do even before you do it. At a first glance Julia appears to be a rebel but it is The Party that allows her to participate in her covert activities. Otherwise how does she avoid arrest for having sex with Party members, stealing coffee, passing notes and is privy to so much Inner Party information? She is not in league with the Party, but she is in control by the Party. Orwell has taken us beyond humanity. We are now in the age of the “Antichrist.” The Party represents the minions of Hell.

(cont)

(cont)

If my conclusions are correct, then we must accept that The Party really does love Winston and they are interested in his rehabilitation. He is a misfit. Orwell is trying to paint a world that is an exact opposite of what we know. God is out of the picture. Throughout the story Winston shows signs of being normal in this warped society. He thinks about killing Julia. He is at times very indifferent to the “Proles” plight, even kicking a severed hand in the gutter. When asked by O’Brien about his loyalty to working for The Brotherhood, he is ready to “To commit acts of sabotage that may cause the death of hundreds of innocent people.”

So in adapting the book to stage, I have not attempted to color the text with my hopes for humankind. You can say that in the world of “1984” that this story has a happy ending. Winston is saved and Big Brother does love Winston. At the end Winston understands this, he also loves Big Brother.

I think the real hope in this novel is the hope that we would not see the real hopelessness of the story. Is it possible that we been fooled by Orwell? In my opinion Orwell never intended us to see this tale as simply a political tract. He wanted us to understand that if we become complacent in our day to day lives, that if we ever stop examining the dogmas and rhetoric that spew from our politicians, then we ourselves are responsible for the government we get and we have opened the Gates of Hell.

Walter- I'm surprised you have time to blog. Shouldn't you be responding to robert spencer or something? ;)

re: #29 Adrenalyn

I also noticed that more people voted against him than voted for either Al Gore or John Kerry.

I wonder who Obama will invite over for a stay in the Lincoln bedroom.

re: #34 nnorb

I also noticed that more people voted against him than voted for either Al Gore or John Kerry.

excellent !

an upding for you

glad to meet you, by the way

but I must sign off
the missus is turning out the lights

night all !

re: #30 LeePro

Morning {LeePro}. We aren't evil. We are the most liked people in the world. :)

/well except when the Conservatives are in power for some reason.

re: #35 BakaRanger

I wonder who Obama will invite over for a stay in the Lincoln bedroom.

Does it really matter?

re: #35 BakaRanger

I wonder who Obama will invite over for a stay in the Lincoln bedroom.

It makes my skin crawl. I probably don't want to know.

re: #29 Adrenalyn

oooh
I love facts and figures and analyses

you forgot one though (maybe more)

he got about 17% of the vote of the country

kinda puts it into perspective how many people
"really like him"

Huh? If you treat the population of the US as 300 million, about 22% of the population voted for him. But that's an irrelevant number, because many citizens are not eligible to vote. The only important outcome is the percentage of voters who voted for him, and that was 52.6%.

re: #38 shanec99

Does it really matter?

It does, if you're going to stay in it next, and they don't change the sheets.
;>)

I'm waiting until an LGF Veterans Day thread for a special post, at least to me and my family...And tomorrow I'm watching my Nephew, since there's no school. We're watching "Patton" and "Saving Private Ryan".

re: #33 Sharmuta

Walter- I'm surprised you have time to blog. Shouldn't you be responding to robert spencer or something? ;)

He stopped email bombing me. Of course, he never explained how I was "misunderstanding" his comment to me.

To Robert from Walter...

You know, Spencer, I am a fucking writer, I'm not stupid, I know how to use words to present a point of view, stop jerking me.

You said what you said and it is as clear as day. For a matter of fact, I can assure you that in the future, you will be sorry you ever email that statement to me.

It is the clearest evidence yet of your disregard of the racism inherent in these European nationalist groups.

Walter's done ranting...

In response to the last thread about Black Helicopter Republicans.

It's a shame that someone making a comparison of Obama's civilian police force to Hitler's own private Army is immdiately dismissed as a kook.

Don't forget that when Hitler rose to power people didn't see him as much of a threat, and most Jews dimissed him completely. No one thought, no one could imagine, that in a few years human beings would be burned in ovens.

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

I'm not calling Obama a Hitler. But it's NOT improper to make a legitimate comparison of policy.

Please watch this video of a former KGB operative, it's truly educational and eye opening.

re: #7 redc1c4

Bushmills neat, please. Could be a long night.

re: #40 JustMyView

Huh? If you treat the population of the US as 300 million, about 22% of the population voted for him. But that's an irrelevant number, because many citizens are not eligible to vote. The only important outcome is the percentage of voters who voted for him, and that was 52.6%.

showing once again that your are a fool, since the only number that *really* matters is how many electoralh votes e gets...

re: #45 Mel Lono

Bushmills neat, please. Could be a long night.

you'll have to settle for "Bushmills sloppy..." someone's already had some from this bottle...

/white smoke

re: #44 capitalistbaby

In response to the last thread about Black Helicopter Republicans.

It's a shame that someone making a comparison of Obama's civilian police force to Hitler's own private Army is immdiately dismissed as a kook.

Don't forget that when Hitler rose to power people didn't see him as much of a threat, and most Jews dimissed him completely. No one thought, no one could imagine, that in a few years human beings would be burned in ovens.

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

I'm not calling Obama a Hitler. But it's NOT improper to make a legitimate comparison of policy.

Please watch this video of a former KGB operative, it's truly educational and eye opening.

Whatever, Pal, we're not the former USSR, or anything close to it. Get lost.

Walter- you rock!

re: #37 BlueCanuck

Morning {LeePro}. We aren't evil. We are the most liked people in the world. :)

/well except when the Conservatives are in power for some reason.

I agree wholeheartedly! I was speaking from the prospective of Goggle... er Giggle... er Gaggle... whatever!

;D

re: #46 redc1c4

showing once again that your are a fool, since the only number that *really* matters is how many electoralh votes e gets...

Well, yes, but I was responding to the other person's incorrect statement of the popular vote, which didn't seem to represent anything. Of course, it's correct that the electoral college vote determines the outcome. No need to be insulting.

BTW, night crew- keep an eye on the thread downstairs.

re: #22 redc1c4

Originally, 11.11.11

All vets stand up and be recognized. Coast Guard 75-82 here.

re: #50 LeePro

Understood. ;)

/use google as little as possible.

re: #41 Alberta Oil Peon

It does, if you're going to stay in it next, and they don't change the sheets.
;>)

Well if they don't change the sheets, then we may be able to establish who are bed fellows by DNA analysis.
Might even lead to an impeachment.
LOL.
Please forgive me, it was in bad taste, but could not resist it, when I saw the part about the unwashed sheets... it reminded me too much about the little blue dress.

re: #44 capitalistbaby

In response to the last thread about Black Helicopter Republicans.

It's a shame that someone making a comparison of Obama's civilian police force to Hitler's own private Army is immdiately dismissed as a kook.

Don't forget that when Hitler rose to power people didn't see him as much of a threat, and most Jews dimissed him completely. No one thought, no one could imagine, that in a few years human beings would be burned in ovens.

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

I'm not calling Obama a Hitler. But it's NOT improper to make a legitimate comparison of policy.

Please watch this video of a former KGB operative, it's truly educational and eye opening.

Please read up on the Schutzstaffel before you make silly assed statement like yours above.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Geeessshhh

Down with anyone that doesn't believe what I believe...
I get evil in Winter...

We may not have any Patriotism left if Liberals can get away with their scary agendas

re: #51 JustMyView

Well, yes, but I was responding to the other person's incorrect statement of the popular vote, which didn't seem to represent anything. Of course, it's correct that the electoral college vote determines the outcome. No need to be insulting.

says you... obviously i feel differently.

re: #47 redc1c4

you'll have to settle for "Bushmills sloppy..." someone's already had some from this bottle...

/white smoke

If you're gonna have sloppy seconds, go with the best, right?

/more white smoke

re: #35 BakaRanger

Oh boy. Let's not go there. For all we know, he won't sell out the Lincoln Bedroom like the Clintons.

Better yet- let's guess what the unemployment rate will be during his re-election campaign. I pick 17.2%.

re: #59 redc1c4

says you... obviously i feel differently.

Are you saying you enjoy being rude? Charming.

Really- the wild-eyed stuff is really more welcome at pamela's.

Whew! Finished the calculus...what'd I miss?

re: #51 JustMyView

Well, yes, but I was responding to the other person's incorrect statement of the popular vote, which didn't seem to represent anything. Of course, it's correct that the electoral college vote determines the outcome. No need to be insulting.

In 1990, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college, all you democrats, especially Hillary, said it needed to be removed, and the popular vote should elect the President. Do you still agree with that?

re: #60 talon_262

If you're gonna have sloppy seconds, go with the best, right?

/more white smoke

No, that would be Jameson's

re: #44 capitalistbaby

We have memories for a reason... so we are quicker to recognize danger the next time it rears it's head.

Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere years ago...
Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables us to recognize our mistakes when we make them again.   —Anonymous

re: #66 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

In 1990, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college, all you democrats, especially Hillary, said it needed to be removed, and the popular vote should elect the President. Do you still agree with that?

Give or take 10 years.

re: #49 Sharmuta

Walter- you rock!

Thank you very much. And I love cuddly little blue females :)

re: #61 Sharmuta

Oh boy. Let's not go there. For all we know, he won't sell out the Lincoln Bedroom like the Clintons.

Better yet- let's guess what the unemployment rate will be during his re-election campaign. I pick 17.2%.

Good Lord, I hope not, that would cause an unprecendented (in recent memory anyway) degree of suffering in our nation.
How many more people who are financially responsible would lose thier homes to forclosure?
How many more kids would be forced out of school?
How much larger would the welfare roles grow?

A 17% unemployment would be more catostrophic for the nation than the Carter years. God help us if your prediction comes to pass.

re: #61 Sharmuta

Oh boy. Let's not go there. For all we know, he won't sell out the Lincoln Bedroom like the Clintons.

Better yet- let's guess what the unemployment rate will be during his re-election campaign. I pick 17.2%.

I love your optimism!

/

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

... I think the real hope in this novel is the hope that we would not see the real hopelessness of the story. ...

I dunno, Walter. I never could quite grok the O'Brien character. Does he, after all, screw Winston, because Winston is a fool?

I'm not sure that Orwell had to have "a point" to it all, but we have some perspective on it that he didn't, that the socialist system indeed does, at some point, die of its own weight. Though just why that should be a surprise, I don't know - sic transit gloria mundi.

re: #66 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

In 1990, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college, all you democrats, especially Hillary, said it needed to be removed, and the popular vote should elect the President. Do you still agree with that?

Well, for now, the electoral college system is what we have. I haven't really examined the arguments in favor of a national popular vote, so I don't have an informed opinion as to whether such a system might be better. Offhand, I'd say that the electoral college has the advantage of forcing candidates to campaign in many parts of the country, and that's a good thing.

re: #65 laZardo

Sharmuta went nuts and pounded Cognito, Charles banned 32 people, and oh - someone posted a lovely recipe for a chocolate silk cake.
Other than that, not much.
/

re: #65 laZardo

Whew! Finished the calculus...what'd I miss?

Walter and Orwell became catholics.

/

re: #69 Opilio

Give or take 10 years.

/Thanks for narrowing that down!

re: #75 Killer Tomato

Chocolate silk cake? Where's the recipe. :)

re: #75 Killer Tomato

all that isn't true is it?
~never know around here.

re: #67 Mel Lono

No, that would be Jameson's

I disagree...Jack Daniel's Black Label would be the best.

/proud Tennessean and occasional imbiber of JD

re: #68 LeePro

Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere years ago...
Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables us to recognize our mistakes when we make them again.   —Anonymous

Experience is a teacher
But here's what makes me burn
She's always teaching me the things
I do not care to learn

re: #69 Opilio

Give or take 10 years.

You all realize the election is not official until 12/13 when the electoral votes are certified... and charles this is not the issue that will not be named.

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

Thanks, Darlin'.

re: #71 shanec99

We know his economic policies are going to hurt, yet people want to focus on shit we have no idea is even going to happen like selling out the Lincoln Bedroom. Let's try focusing on reality and not get bent out of shape about things that haven't happened nor do we know if they even will.

re: #79 WrathofG-d

all that isn't true is it?
~never know around here.

no - just joshing

(would like a cake though - not the recipe - just someone to show up with a cake)

re: #75 Killer Tomato

Oh [insert deity here]...that's horrible.

I really wanted to keep the recipe for that cake.

/curls up and whimpers

//lol

hmmm well trix on me then.

With the tenor of the last 2 threads the banning massacre wouldn't have surprised.

re: #75 Killer Tomato

Sharmuta went nuts and pounded Cognito, Charles banned 32 people, and oh - someone posted a lovely recipe for a chocolate silk cake.
Other than that, not much.
/

Stop making up numbers... my recollection is that Charles banned 320 people for suggesting that the world is flat and that Hitler is a homosexual who is currently mobillizing action to undermine prop 8 in California. I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic. I read the last portion in a news paper at a check out line in a store in east africa.

November 11th, 1918
Armistice Day

Americans sometimes forget that the UK lost more than twice as many men in the First World War as in the Second. British forces suffered almost a million dead, 750,000 of them from the UK itself. This was almost 2 percent of the pre-war population. For this reason, the Great War looms much larger in the British consciousness than it does in ours.

Until the last generation or so, everyone who grew up in Britain knew what "First Day on the Somme" meant, and shuddered at the words.
July 1,1916: A frontal assault by 14 divisions of the British Expeditionary Force along a front of just 25,000 yards near the River Somme in France. The Germans were pushed back a mile or so in some places, not at all in many others. The attack has gone down in history not for the gain or loss of military advantage, which was insignificant, but for the catastrophic casualties suffered by the British forces: 19,240 killed and 38,000 wounded or missing. This was by far the worst single day in British military history, and is exceeded only by the single day casualties suffered by the Soviet Army in a few of the major battles on the Eastern Front in the Second World War. Many of the hardest hit units were made up of men from the same area or even the same city, with profound social consequences for the communities involved

re: #74 JustMyView

Well, for now, the electoral college system is what we have. I haven't really examined the arguments in favor of a national popular vote, so I don't have an informed opinion as to whether such a system might be better. Offhand, I'd say that the electoral college has the advantage of forcing candidates to campaign in many parts of the country, and that's a good thing.

BINGO! And that, my friend, is why our founder Fathers had the brains to make it the final arbiter of the election of the Presidency, so as not to give an unfair advantage to the largest populated states.
Brilliant men, huh?

re: #87 shanec99

Stop making up numbers... my recollection is that Charles banned 320 people for suggesting that the world is flat and that Hitler is a homosexual who is currently mobillizing action to undermine prop 8 in California. I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic. I read the last portion in a news paper at a check out line in a store in east africa.

By the way, I told a lie... a big fat whopper in this one. Can anyone
figure out what it was?

Well time to go and do some chutzpah. Be back in a little while.

/Mr. Chekov, engage the lurking device now.

re: #73 itellu3times

I dunno, Walter. I never could quite grok the O'Brien character. Does he, after all, screw Winston, because Winston is a fool?

I'm not sure that Orwell had to have "a point" to it all, but we have some perspective on it that he didn't, that the socialist system indeed does, at some point, die of its own weight. Though just why that should be a surprise, I don't know - sic transit gloria mundi.

I think O'Brien represents pure evil. Here is a paragraph, from my script, of O'Brien describing the party. Some of this dialog is Orwell's, some mine...

(Winston)
"But how can you control everything… everyone… every thought? Humans can’t live like that… you will self-destruct. Who do you think you are?"

(O’Brien:)
"(Pause… then very slowly to Winston) We are older than the earth. We can blot out the stars… control the weather… we can tear paradise apart… we are the center of the universe. We existed before the earth was created. Who do you think we are? What is there that can defeat us? Mankind has let this happened. You stopped paying attention. You invited us in. The human race has betrayed itself."

That's my interpretation of who O'Brien and the Inner Party represent. Evil, evil as old as the universe. Evil that spans all time and place.

re: #69 Opilio

Give or take 10 years.

I was merely pointing out, in my standard obtuse way, that the Goracle won the popular vote, but lost the election in 2000, not 1990 as posited by the distinguished gentleman from the Ozarks.

The Framers were wary of giving the people the power to directly elect the President — some felt the citizenry too beholden to local interests, too easily duped by promises or shenanigans, or simply because a national election, in the time of oil lamps and quill pens, was just impractical. Some proposals gave the power to the Congress, but this did not sit well with those who wanted to see true separation of the branches of the new government. Still others felt the state legislatures should decide, but this was thought to make the President too beholden to state interests. The Electoral College, proposed by James Wilson, was the compromise that the Constitutional Convention reached.

Hasn't changed much has it?

Electoral "College"?

re: #62 JustMyView

Are you saying you enjoy being rude? Charming.

that isn't at all what i wrote... it's hard to tell if you're a garden variety moron, or simply a pitiful fool that plays at being one.

re: #90 shanec99

The part about newspapers in east africa?

re: #89 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

BINGO! And that, my friend, is why our founder Fathers had the brains to make it the final arbiter of the election of the Presidency, so as not to give an unfair advantage to the largest populated states.
Brilliant men, huh?

PIMF- Founding fathers.

re: #16 Emperor Norton

A mandate is what Peggy Noonan needs.

Are you sure she's not more in the market for a galdate?

re: #90 shanec99

I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic

is the lie

re: #56 Walter L. Newton

Actually, Walter, one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes of any stripe is a multiplicity of interlocking and simultaneously competing paramilitary organizations. It's easier to keep your minions as good subservient minions when they know there are other minions in other organizations prepared to cut their throats.

And the multiplicity of "police" organizations keeps the fear factor up in the general population, too, since even if one is fairly comfortable with the local gendarmes, there is always the threat of the "other" police swooping in on some pretext.

If Obama actually carries through with this "civilian security force", I'd say there is plenty of reason to be alarmed. It's not like the U.S.A. is lacking police agencies as it is. I'm sure Charles is right, and that it will never happen. Just another example of Obama mis-thinking out loud.

re: #90 shanec99
You weren't in a check out line?

re: #96 Sharmuta

The part about newspapers in east africa?

You are bad baby girl... really bad. But God bless you.

As I go; then you shall see.

re: #93 Opilio

I was merely pointing out, in my standard obtuse way, that the Goracle won the popular vote, but lost the election in 2000, not 1990 as posited by the distinguished gentleman from the Ozarks.

Sorry, I make typographical mistakes. Obviously unlike you.

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

At the risk of invoking the wrath caused by the previous BHR thread, I would have to openly admit that it is not the Big Brother up top that worries me as much as the laypeople that make up the base of his support (not the proles below, most of the Outer Party, but you get the idea).

Note, after all, that Mrs. Parsons was shown to be scared of her own children, not necessarily Thinkpol. It is this "base" that are the real enforcers of the Will, not the blackbaggers of repute.

It is why BHO's election unsettled me. In this case, it wasn't necessarily the promise of a "civilian national security force" or his other policies, that many of said "base's" equivalent in real life happen to be my own contemporaries, people I suffered their boot to my face with growing up in school and are currently occupying the youngest voting bracket. Even more worrisome is if their naivete will continue down to the next generation if they aren't "disillusioned."

re: #102 shanec99

I'm not bad- I'm just drawn that way.

/Jessica Rabbit mode off

re: #99 Stonemason

I hope no one thinks I am being sarcastic

is the lie

Dude that is horrible..., I gotta go yall. Take care and keep your chins up. Its lunch time here. Now that is the truth.

re: #107 shanec99

OR IS IT?

dun dun duuunnn~

/lol, enjoy your lunch

re: #106 Sharmuta

I'm not bad- I'm just drawn that way.

/Jessica Rabbit mode off

Cya later baby girl... love the comments. Would hate to be on the wrong side of a debate with u.

re: #100 Alberta Oil Peon

Actually, Walter, one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes of any stripe is a multiplicity of interlocking and simultaneously competing paramilitary organizations. It's easier to keep your minions as good subservient minions when they know there are other minions in other organizations prepared to cut their throats.

And the multiplicity of "police" organizations keeps the fear factor up in the general population, too, since even if one is fairly comfortable with the local gendarmes, there is always the threat of the "other" police swooping in on some pretext.

If Obama actually carries through with this "civilian security force", I'd say there is plenty of reason to be alarmed. It's not like the U.S.A. is lacking police agencies as it is. I'm sure Charles is right, and that it will never happen. Just another example of Obama mis-thinking out loud.

Look, many nations have what Obama is talking about, and they are not the worst for it. France has the gendarmerie, Italy has the Carabinier, Canada has the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and so forth.

re: #74 JustMyView

Well, for now, the electoral college system is what we have. I haven't really examined the arguments in favor of a national popular vote, so I don't have an informed opinion as to whether such a system might be better. Offhand, I'd say that the electoral college has the advantage of forcing candidates to campaign in many parts of the country, and that's a good thing.

edited for brevity...

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

re: #111 redc1c4

edited for brevity...

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

I'm just wondering what gives you the right to tell JMV what to post...

I remember reading somewhere that only 60% of the boys born in England in 1896 were still alive in 1920, the rest eaten up by the Somme and Ypres and Flanders.
One of them, however, is alive to this day: Henry Allingham

Henry William Allingham (born 6 June 1896) is, at age 112, a supercentenarian World War I veteran and Britain's oldest living man. He is the oldest ever surviving member of any British Armed Forces and the oldest surviving veteran of the First World War. Allingham is the oldest ever English man and the second-oldest ever British man after Welshman John Evans. On 13 February 2007, he became the UK's second-oldest living person—he also holds the record for being Europe's fifth-oldest living person and the oldest male. He is the joint second-oldest living man in the world, and is the oldest living white male. As of April 2008, he is validated as one of the 25 oldest people in the world, tied with American man George Francis, and, as of October 2008, he ranks among the 20 oldest men ever and the 20 oldest Britons ever.

He is the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland, the last surviving member of the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) and the last surviving founding member of the Royal Air Force (RAF).

Wow!

A cartoonist just gave me permission to use his cartoons on one of my blogs.

Here's his blogspot site.

I think Charles might appreciate the cartoon presently at the top of the site.

re: #111 redc1c4

edited for brevity...

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

There's nothing clever about what you're doing. You're being insulting and abusive for no reason, which isn't very becoming to you. Please stop it.

re: #105 laZardo

At the risk of invoking the wrath caused by the previous BHR thread, I would have to openly admit that it is not the Big Brother up top that worries me as much as the laypeople that make up the base of his support (not the proles below, most of the Outer Party, but you get the idea).

Note, after all, that Mrs. Parsons was shown to be scared of her own children, not necessarily Thinkpol. It is this "base" that are the real enforcers of the Will, not the blackbaggers of repute.

It is why BHO's election unsettled me. In this case, it wasn't necessarily the promise of a "civilian national security force" or his other policies, that many of said "base's" equivalent in real life happen to be my own contemporaries, people I suffered their boot to my face with growing up in school and are currently occupying the youngest voting bracket. Even more worrisome is if their naivete will continue down to the next generation if they aren't "disillusioned."

I would agree with you if Obama creates some sort of "Obama's Youths" and we start seeing domestic spying right in the home by these little brats. That would be a bit scary. But so far, I haven't seen anything that would suggest that he is headed in that direction. Community service groups are still a bit different than brwon shirted youths.

re: #90 shanec99

By the way, I told a lie... a big fat whopper in this one. Can anyone
figure out what it was?

reading the paper in a check out line...

Has anyone read "The Immigrants" by Howard Fast? Incredible book. Couldn't put it down last two days.

Oh? And anyone get COD5 that came out today?

re: #113 Shiplord Kirel

Now that's amazing!

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

I think what Orwell was trying to say, what Kafka was trying to say, and what the Khmer Rouge demonstrated is that a totalitarian system is a closed system that operates by its own internal logic. All of its actions are consistent with that internal logic and only that internal logic; the actions of its citizens are judged by the same standard, and deviation from it is deficiency, disease, defect. That which is deficient, diseased or defective must be corrected or destroyed, as there is no room for anything within that closed system that doesn't conform to its norms and ideals.

I think the foregoing interpretation is entirely consistent with yours. From the inside, Winston is insane and the Party lovingly cures him; from the outside, Winston is the only sane person and the Party cruelly destroys him. So long as there are free societies external to the closed totalitarian systems, there is hope that sane men will be recognized for what they are and freed from the loving ministrations of the Party.

re: #119 traderjoe9

Oh? And anyone get COD5 that came out today?

No. I got my shots for it last month. I'm ok.

And I am back. Didn't want to answer a question here at work. :(

re: #111 redc1c4

edited for brevity...

you should just copy & paste that one phrase any time you feel an uge to post here on LGF. it would save lots of band width and increase your credibility tremendously at the same time.

touche', that's french

re: #112 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I'm just wondering what gives you the right to tell JMV what to post...

suggest =! tell

HTH.

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

Look, many nations have what Obama is talking about, and they are not the worst for it. France has the gendarmerie, Italy has the Carabinier, Canada has the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and so forth.

And the U.S.A. has the F.B.I., and the B.A.T.F., and the D.E.A.

But in all these cases, the duties and powers of those police agencies are spelled out in legislation, and they normally don't overlap. And they all function lawfully. (At least in theory.)

In a totalitarian state, the various secret and paramilitary police, and "civilian armies" have vaguely-defined, and often overlapping powers, and are often viciously competitive with one another. Ultimately, they answer only to the Supreme Leader.

re: #116 Walter L. Newton

Perhaps that example was hyperbolic, sorry. I doubt he'll get such a comprehensive and organized (as it were) structure up and running in 2 or 4 years.

It's more like Obama was the 'in' thing, and if you didn't, you'd be ostracized for it as a racist or something like that...to draw an analogy from Orwell's other famous narrative, they'd start asking "Do you want Bush to come back?"

I'm definitely hoping that the "youth voter apathy" sinks in a bit in the months following...though unlike Kerry or Gore, Obama was the type of candidate that really appealed to their fancy.

re: #80 talon_262

I disagree...Jack Daniel's Black Label would be the best.

/proud Tennessean and occasional imbiber of JD

Where are you?

Memphis/Germantown here!

re: #115 JustMyView

There's nothing clever about what you're doing. You're being insulting and abusive for no reason, which isn't very becoming to you. Please stop it.

Agreed. If you had said something insulting, like the losers comparing Obama to Hitler earlier, I could understand, but to attacked for your, lol, "point of view" is out of line.

Some Democrats are more equal than others. They are called super-delegates.

re: #124 Mel Lono

touche', that's french

it was just too good to pass up... %-)

re: #53 Mel Lono

Originally, 11.11.11

All vets stand up and be recognized. Coast Guard 75-82 here.

11:00 on 11.11.1918 - "the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month."

re: #121 stuiec

I think what Orwell was trying to say, what Kafka was trying to say, and what the Khmer Rouge demonstrated is that a totalitarian system is a closed system that operates by its own internal logic. All of its actions are consistent with that internal logic and only that internal logic; the actions of its citizens are judged by the same standard, and deviation from it is deficiency, disease, defect. That which is deficient, diseased or defective must be corrected or destroyed, as there is no room for anything within that closed system that doesn't conform to its norms and ideals.

I think the foregoing interpretation is entirely consistent with yours. From the inside, Winston is insane and the Party lovingly cures him; from the outside, Winston is the only sane person and the Party cruelly destroys him. So long as there are free societies external to the closed totalitarian systems, there is hope that sane men will be recognized for what they are and freed from the loving ministrations of the Party.

Thank you for reading my intro to my script. And yes, we agree. And that's why I think Orwell framed the story in the way he did.

re: #119 traderjoe9

I thought 4 would actually get me interested in a series that was originally "just another WWII" shooter like Medal of Honor...but then 5 went back to WWII and all that hope just dissipated.

/change I definitely didn't believe in, lol

re: #129 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

JMV was one of the eeyores before election night. Always came in with it's doom and gloom and generally being a real downer. If some of us are a wee bit harsh that's the reason why.

re: #130 Fibonacci

Some Democrats are more equal than others. They are called super-delegates.

The superdelegates turned out to be the least powerful of all Democrats. They didn't even get a chance to vote properly at the convention: their decision was made for them by the DNC.

re: #128 LeePro

Where are you?

Memphis/Germantown here!

The city of Military, especially Navy, retirees!

re: #132 stuiec

11:00 on 11.11.1918 - "the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month."

You are correct, sir.

re: #123 BlueCanuck

And I am back. Didn't want to answer a question here at work. :(

hey, at least you're w*rking...

i'm for a bit of fruitcup prep and then bed.

you and Mel keep them in line.

re: #127 laZardo

I'm definitely hoping that the "youth voter apathy" sinks in a bit in the months following...though unlike Kerry or Gore, Obama was the type of candidate that really appealed to their fancy.

I think it will. Here is the last paragraph to an editorial I wrote for the Denver Post. It describes what you are saying above.

"We are seeing the beginnings of America's first political personality cult. It is the perfect storm of American Idol aspirations combined with MTV "quick cut" reportage and mass media's ability to address a eager and willing consumer market right down to the very core of our cell phones."

These techniques were used to appeal to the kind of youth voters you reference above, and just like the "quick cuts" of MTV, that will be the length of attention that these voters will pay to the process. By summer they will have gone on.

Gonna head to the gym for my twice-weekly "keep me from becoming a total nerd" routine. B)

Cheers!

re: #139 redc1c4

hey, at least you're w*rking...

i'm for a bit of fruitcup prep and then bed.

you and Mel keep them in line.

Got your six pal

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Yup.
Written in 1949. I read it in the mid-1950s. Still scares the crap outa me... especially when I can now see it — almost chapter-by-chapter, page-by-page, and word-by-word — unfolding before my very eyes.

I am terrified. And I feel utterly helpless.

re: #135 BlueCanuck

JMV isn't an eeyore- JMV is an 0bama loving trollop.

re: #133 Walter L. Newton

Thank you for reading my intro to my script. And yes, we agree. And that's why I think Orwell framed the story in the way he did.

Thank you for sharing the intro. It made me think about the parallel between 1984 and the Khmer Rouge -- I am working on a one-act play about a woman going back to Cambodia for the first time since she was an infant, to see where her parents died at the hands of the Khmer Rouge.

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

I can only hope they move on, and that rationality eventually starts to take the place of their "metabolism," as it were. That they "grow up." That might take a while though due to the supersonic pace of the high-tech world we live in.

re: #119 traderjoe9

Oh? And anyone get COD5 that came out today?

Waiting for my preorder to reach my local GameStop later today...bastids.

;-p

Google seems to have remembered Veteran's Day.

re: #120 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Now that's amazing!

Even more amazing: Allingham shares his status as world's second oldest man with American George Francis, who was born on the very same day, June 6 1896.

re: #139 redc1c4

Will do. Make sure you clean up any mess when you're done.

re: #128 LeePro

Where are you?

Memphis/Germantown here!

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

Kay...actually heading out now. When I get back I'm gonna watch Top Gear. New season out... gleee~

re: #126 Alberta Oil Peon

And the U.S.A. has the F.B.I., and the B.A.T.F., and the D.E.A.

They do not have the same powers as a gendarmerie styled force. Obama's description of what he was talking about is similar to a gendarmerie.

In a totalitarian state, the various secret and paramilitary police, and "civilian armies" have vaguely-defined, and often overlapping powers, and are often viciously competitive with one another. Ultimately, they answer only to the Supreme Leader.

Obama's description of what he was talking about is no where near the totalitarian forces as exampled by the Schutzstaffel.

Oops. George Francis link

re: #144 Sharmuta

Ah, thank you for the correction.

/updates score card for future reference. . . .

re: #151 talon_262

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

Robertson County, here! (we should ask them how they'd pronounce "Demonbruen"...)

re: #135 BlueCanuck

JMV was one of the eeyores before election night. Always came in with it's doom and gloom and generally being a real downer. If some of us are a wee bit harsh that's the reason why.

Hate to disagree, but I have to. JustMyView was getting attacked for his/her opinion and point of view. LGF is not a one-sided nor close-minded community.
We can all agree to disagree with whomever we disagree with, or agree. JustMyView never said anything controversial, unless having a differing opinion qualifies as being controversial.

re: #111 redc1c4

Excellent, red!
EXCELLENT ! ! !

re: #145 stuiec

Thank you for sharing the intro. It made me think about the parallel between 1984 and the Khmer Rouge -- I am working on a one-act play about a woman going back to Cambodia for the first time since she was an infant, to see where her parents died at the hands of the Khmer Rouge.

ANd I will give you a tip (although you may have heard this before), write anything down on the page, in your play, just keep writing, even if you don't like something, write it down. You can always go back and clean out the junk later.

It's much better than sitting there thinking "that doesn't sound good," "that's not right," "I don't like that."

That's not your job description (not on the first pass). You are a writer, write. Your job as an editor comes second.

Dogpile remembers

As for the youth vote- I think they might be the first ones to come down with buyer's remorse when they have to work harder to earn less. I mean- they won't have time or money for their cable tv, video games, nifty gadgets, etc. if they're giving all their time and money to The Man. And for what? $4000 in tuition credit? A crappy job that pays sh*t? War in Pahkkystahn?

re: #157 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

True but some of the stuff that it posted was along the lines of "give up it's inevitable". At the times it was posting that rubbish everyone was trying to muster spirits and to keep the fight up.

re: #149 Shiplord Kirel

Even more amazing: Allingham shares his status as world's second oldest man with American George Francis, who was born on the very same day, June 6 1896.

Now that's freaking WEIRD, well, kind of, my Grandmother was born on June 6th, 1899!

re: #156 Intrepid

Robertson County, here! (we should ask them how they'd pronounce "Demonbruen"...)

You're in Springfield or Cedar Hill.

/channeling Karnak

re: #143 LeePro

Yup.
Written in 1949. I read it in the mid-1950s. Still scares the crap outa me... especially when I can now see it — almost chapter-by-chapter, page-by-page, and word-by-word — unfolding before my very eyes.
I am terrified. And I feel utterly helpless.

I have been answering your comment the same way for years. Nothing in 1984 can be compared to anything you are seeing now. Period. 1984 is much more frighting than anything that is happening anywhere.

re: #151 talon_262

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

If we're doing bourbon, I prefer Maker's Mark, unless a single barrel Basil Hayden is sitting around.

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

I think the frightening part was when O'brien was discussing the view points of the other political entities. It hit me like a sledgehammer when he said that their whole purpose was to restrict thought and thinking.

/I shivered for quite a few minutes after that one

re: #166 Mel Lono

If we're doing bourbon, I prefer Maker's Mark, unless a single barrel Basil Hayden is sitting around.

Makers Mark? Seriously?

It seems that Sharmuta can be, well, a little dishonest now and then. A lot, actually.

See her comments on the previous thread here and here?

But wait, she was singing a very different tune not too long ago, wasn't she?

I am going to bed. I've just come off two memorable days having Roger McGuinn (of the Byrds) at where I work, and working with him and his wife. Both nights of the concert were sold out. Our theatre seats 136 people, so it was as intimate as you could imagine. But they were two long days, so to bed.

And I'm gonna drag my butt to bed. Hopefully, the rest of me will follow.
'night all!

re: #168 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Do you have a rebuttal preference? but then I'm just a rummie.

re: #164 talon_262

You're in Springfield or Cedar Hill.

/channeling Karnak

Springfield - close to Coopertown. My brother and sister live in that teeming metropolis, Cedar Hill. Heh.

You ARE Karnak!

re: #169 Edgar

Oh look, I see a pest... and just as I was going to bed.

Shake... shake... shake... press... press... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... Edgar-Off, as seen on TV.

re: #137 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

The city of Military, especially Navy, retirees!

USED to be. Millington Naval Air Station closed a long time ago (Thank you Mr. Clinton! — /). Rather weak educational facility now.

re: #149 Shiplord Kirel

Even more amazing: Allingham shares his status as world's second oldest man with American George Francis, who was born on the very same day, June 6 1896.

I've been very interested in super-centenarians mainly because of my maternal grandmother, who is 104 and in excellent mental and physical health. People thin out very quickly as ages advance to that level, however. Grandma is only the third oldest person in Lubbock right now (though she is the oldest to retain substantial mental capacity and also the oldest who lives in her own home) but if she lives another five years she will probably be the oldest in the state. Another ten would put her in the top 4 or 5 in the world. Her doctor says she has a fair chance of living to 110. She has a remarkable sense of humor and she initially found this possibility amusing, but then she turned pensive and said, "Take care of yourself, it would be very sad to start outliving my grandchildren."

re: #169 Edgar

You were defeated today and quite soundly, Edgar. Now you come back late at night/early morning and start posting crap again? With no provocation?

Get.Over.Yourself.

re: #169 Edgar

It seems that Sharmuta can be, well, a little dishonest now and then. A lot, actually.

See her comments on the previous thread here and here?

But wait, she was singing a very different tune not too long ago, wasn't she?

I don't see the discrepancy, fool...

re: #48 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Whatever, Pal, we're not the former USSR, or anything close to it. Get lost.

Neither the interviewee in the video or the poster you insulted was suggesting that the US and the USSR were alike.

The former agent had a unique perspective on issues that we should care about.

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Oh look, I see a pest... and just as I was going to bed.

Shake... shake... shake... press... press... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... Edgar-Off, as seen on TV.

He's thinks he's so slick, trying to get his gotcha moment on Sharmuta when she's not here to defend herself...as befitting the cockroach he is, I'd rather crush his little head under my heel than waste the bug spray on him.

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

Obama's description of what he was talking about is no where near the totalitarian forces as exampled by the Schutzstaffel.

And where did I say it was? As it was originally mooted by Obama himself, it sounds more like some kind of a cross between the Hitler Youth and the Sturmabteilung, if we confine ourselves to comparable entities from the Nazi era. Remember I spoke of totalitarian governments of all stripes, not just the Nazis.

If this "civilian security force" was just Obama running off at the mouth unthinkingly, and not in any sort of way intended to be implemented, then we can safely relegate it to the archive of "stupid sayings of the One." That's bound to become a fat file in the years to come.

But if he actually intends to implement such a thing, then that is bad news. The U.S.A. is not in any way under-policed. The only possible purpose of such a force would be to act as an enforcer of Obama's political will.

re: #144 Sharmuta

JMV isn't an eeyore- JMV is an 0bama loving trollop.

Oh dear... must do a spelling correction here. Shouldn't that be "troll-op?" You know, an opportunistic troll? A trollop is pretty much just a whore, isn't it?

Oh.
Never mind. Same thing!

I asked you a question on what you compared the intimidation of free speech to and this somehow means I was comparing 0bama to hitler, edgar?

To say that was a bit of a stretch is an understatement.

Holy guacamole! More supercentenarian news:

Dr. Leila Denmark, the pediatrician who was credited as co-developer of the pertussis vaccine in the 1920s, is still alive at age 110. She practiced medicine until she was 103.

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

Oh look, I see a pest... and just as I was going to bed.

Shake... shake... shake... press... press... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... pppsssttt... Edgar-Off, as seen on TV.

funny sedgeway. Was watching Full Metal Jacket the other night and looked up Vincent D'Ornorio who played PVT. Pyle. What a performance and he went on to play Edgar in MIB and also in Law and Order. A superb actor.

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

I have been answering your comment the same way for years. Nothing in 1984 can be compared to anything you are seeing now. Period. 1984 is much more frighting than anything that is happening anywhere.

And just to show how dishonest Walter can be, click here

re: #173 Intrepid

Springfield - close to Coopertown. My brother and sister live in that teeming metropolis, Cedar Hill. Heh.

You ARE Karnak!

Aren't you glad that Coopertown finally got rid of that crook Danny Crosby? If I were still going to Austin Peay and traveling the I-24 corridor every day, I'd be ecstatic.

re: #150 BlueCanuck

Oh my! You've given up on guard duty?

What a shame. Nineteen years and counting... will not be able to partake.

^{_{/crying in my beer coke Coca-Cola}}

re: #185 Mel Lono

funny sedgeway. Was watching Full Metal Jacket the other night and looked up Vincent D'Ornorio who played PVT. Pyle. What a performance and he went on to play Edgar in MIB and also in Law and Order. A superb actor.

Mel, I think the word you wanted to use is "segue".

A sedgeway is kind of like a henway.

re: #186 Edgar

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

re: #184 Shiplord Kirel

Holy guacamole! More supercentenarian news:

Dr. Leila Denmark, the pediatrician who was credited as co-developer of the pertussis vaccine in the 1920s, is still alive at age 110. She practiced medicine until she was 103.

WOW! I'm glad she was finally ready to get that gold watch, maybe take some time and travel around, take up a hobby. LOL.

She must be some woman!

re: #189 Alberta Oil Peon

Mel, I think the word you wanted to use is "segue".

A sedgeway is kind of like a henway.

Or a Segway...

;-P

re: #188 LeePro

Ummm, it was requested by a few other lizards. There still is untainted fruitcup for those that still need to think straight. ;)

re: #151 talon_262

Nashville...home of Governor Phil "Party Bunker" Bredesen.

;-P

Geez! I'm so sorry! But we have the entire Ford family!

BTW, next time we have a Lizard meet-up, you should drive over!
email?

re: #190 BlueCanuck

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

I don't expect Sharmuta or Walter to own up to it. Hell, even if there was no possible way to spin it, they'd claim they were joking.

But people can see very well what they said, whether or not they admit it.

I win.

I asked you a question on what you compared the intimidation of free speech to and this somehow means I was comparing 0bama to hitler, edgar?

re: #187 talon_262

Aren't you glad that Coopertown finally got rid of that crook Danny Crosby? If I were still going to Austin Peay and traveling the I-24 corridor every day, I'd be ecstatic.

Oh good gravy, yes! I'm surprised he even ran for reelection. He knew there was no way he'd get it again, not with all the bad publicity he drew with the speed traps and having the city workers help him on his farm, during city business hours!

He got smacked down by the courts several months back because he didn't remember to get the C-town police permission re-upped from the THP for ticketing on that stretch of the interstate. Got a lot of tickets thrown out because of it.

re: #153 Walter L. Newton

Obama's description of what he was talking about is no where near the totalitarian forces as exampled by the Schutzstaffel.

And how do you know this? How do you know that "his description of what he was talking about" is true and complete?

re: #196 Sharmuta

I asked you a question on what you compared the intimidation of free speech to and this somehow means I was comparing 0bama to hitler, edgar?

Nope, it means you saw a parallel between Nazis and Obama before, and now you magically don't.

Will you admit you were wrong?

re: #192 talon_262

Or a Segway...

;-P

damn talon... I almost had it!

segue

re: #195 Edgar

Man, it must be rough going through life with a pair of warped lenses.

re: #197 Intrepid

Oh good gravy, yes! I'm surprised he even ran for reelection. He knew there was no way he'd get it again, not with all the bad publicity he drew with the speed traps and having the city workers help him on his farm, during city business hours!

He got smacked down by the courts several months back because he didn't remember to get the C-town police permission re-upped from the THP for ticketing on that stretch of the interstate. Got a lot of tickets thrown out because of it.

I so wished that the THP would have told him where to stick it, especially since the stretch of I-24 they were patrolling was outside the city limits for the most part, IIRC.

re: #190 BlueCanuck

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

He's just mad because when his buddy came on today and backed him up, we looked up the buddy's post history. The only times the buddy really posted were when Edgar was getting creamed for some petty, woe-is-me post he made.

re: #199 Edgar

So- you admit I wasn't comparing 0bama to hitler, but this was your line of attack just now. Seems you have a pretty weak argument.

re: #190 BlueCanuck

So are you going to go through and try to find random samplings of posters to "discredit" them with?

/green smoke

No, Edgar was right in his linking to my comment. I was comparing some tactics I see in Obama's supporters to similar techniques as described in 1984.

And my comment above in this thread to Lee Pro was my reaction to a question I have been getting for almost 10 years, since I penned the first draft of my 1984 stage adaptation.

I can honestly say my reaction to Lee Pro was an over reaction. So many times when people discuss the play (or book) with me, it is evident they know nothing about the kind of politics that is being discussed in the story, and I have had people try to compare some of lamest actions by our politicians to stuff in the book.

So, I retract my overall statement to Lee Pro, but I will still contend that we in this country do not have a situation as described in the overall arc of the book.

re: #201 BlueCanuck

Man, it must be rough going through life with a pair of warped lenses.

Well at least I'm not two-faced, changing my opinion when Charles is around.

re: #195 Edgar

I don't expect Sharmuta or Walter to own up to it. Hell, even if there was no possible way to spin it, they'd claim they were joking.

But people can see very well what they said, whether or not they admit it.

I win.

You win? BWAHHH! What do you win? Sniveling, self-pitying, obtuse little toad of the year? Yep, I'll give that to you.

re: #195 Edgar

I don't expect Sharmuta or Walter to own up to it. Hell, even if there was no possible way to spin it, they'd claim they were joking.

But people can see very well what they said, whether or not they admit it.

I win.

Hey fool, see my 205 above, I did own up to overreacting. So shut the fuck up. It's more than you ever do, posting asinine statement here and then going on and on until you simply wear people out with your lame answers.

re: #199 Edgar

Nope, it means you saw a parallel between Nazis and Obama before, and now you magically don't.

Will you admit you were wrong?

If you're this much an anal-retentive moron here, I'd hate to see what a miserable bastard you'd be IRL...

re: #204 Sharmuta

So- you admit I wasn't comparing 0bama to hitler, but this was your line of attack just now. Seems you have a pretty weak argument.

Sharmuta, you did compare Obama to Hitler, by writing "then what you you compare the intimidation of political free speech to?"

in response to the statement: "Well, I don't agree that they are mutually exclusive, but I am not an Obama supporter. Just think it's silly to compare him to Hitler/Big Brother."

re: #203 Intrepid

He's just mad because when his buddy came on today and backed him up, we looked up the buddy's post history. The only times the buddy really posted were when Edgar was getting creamed for some petty, woe-is-me post he made.

Sockpuppet, perhaps?

re: #195 Edgar

Sorry, Loser

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

Hey fool, see my 205 above, I did own up to overreacting. So shut the fuck up. It's more than you ever do, posting asinine statement here and then going on and on until you simply wear people out with your lame answers.

Thank you. That's more than Sharmuta has done.

re: #206 Edgar

And you think that what happens in Charles house goes unnoticed? Begone troll, your kind is not wanted here.

re: #179 abolitionist

Thank you for understanding what I was saying and coming to my defense.

As a grandaughter of 4 Jewish Holocaust survivors I tend to look ahead, just in case something horrible were to happen again.

In no way is the USA like the USSR, nor was I saying it is. The people of the US are different, they are much more free willed, less easily led, and in that I hold my faith in saving this country from communists.

The former KGB agent video should be required watching imo.

re: #213 Edgar

Yeah, but your tactics are as slimy as pond scum. Why do you need to bring up peoples history on the way they post? Do you get some thrill by saying, "Gotcha"?

re: #210 Edgar

So I must have meant nazis and not big brother, huh? You're projecting.

I'll admit I called 0bama a fascist when the civilian corps article was first posted at LGF, and I do see 0bama as a progressive in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, but I don't think I ever called 0bama a nazi or hitler.

re: #216 BlueCanuck

Yeah, but your tactics are as slimy as pond scum. Why do you need to bring up peoples history on the way they post? Do you get some thrill by saying, "Gotcha"?

He probably gets all tingly, like Chrissy Matthews.

re: #207 Intrepid

You win? BWAHHH! What do you win? Sniveling, self-pitying, obtuse little toad of the year? Yep, I'll give that to you.

As I said in my 205, Edgar is correct. And it is my fault. For me, 1984 is describing something that is so far above and beyond what we see happening in this country. As I said, the overall plot arc of the story cannot be compared to our situation in the US.

But, certain isolated concepts in 1984 certainly can be used to compare techniques we see used by people/politicians in the US.

re: #211 talon_262

Sockpuppet, perhaps?

That was suggested earlier. Edgar's been here since September this year, I believe. But the other guy, JohnDakota, has been here a year and a half but only had maybe 30-32 posts at the start of the day. But JohnDakota has shown up quite a number of times Edgar has been his usual peachy, cheery self. Like he's being tonight.

re: #217 Sharmuta

So I must have meant nazis and not big brother, huh? You're projecting.

I'll admit I called 0bama a fascist when the civilian corps article was first posted at LGF, and I do see 0bama as a progressive in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, but I don't think I ever called 0bama a nazi or hitler.

Quite right. Even Mussolini, who friggin' invented fascism, was no Hitler. Still a very, very bad guy though.

re: #220 Intrepid

That was suggested earlier. Edgar's been here since September this year, I believe. But the other guy, JohnDakota, has been here a year and a half but only had maybe 30-32 posts at the start of the day. But JohnDakota has shown up quite a number of times Edgar has been his usual peachy, cheery self. Like he's being tonight.

The plot thickens...

;-P

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

You might have gone a little overboard, but you seem to passionate about the topic you were posting on. It still doesn't excuse edgar from the tactics he's using.

re: #217 Sharmuta

So I must have meant nazis and not big brother, huh? You're projecting.

I'll admit I called 0bama a fascist when the civilian corps article was first posted at LGF, and I do see 0bama as a progressive in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, but I don't think I ever called 0bama a nazi or hitler.

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

Fair enough, Walter. Doesn't stop him from being a general pain in the ass, though.

re: #201 BlueCanuck

Man, it must be rough going through life with a pair of warped lenses.

There.

OT about previous thread.

Who needs to be a 'Hitler'? Who needs 'black helicopters'? Who needs 'martial law'?

All one needs is a quart of patience, a gallon o' marketing, a liter of 'education', and customers with empty minds to eat it, and you have a great recipe for destroying a country without anything else.

re: #221 Shiplord Kirel

I think the lesson here is don't engage with edgar. Even asking edgar a simple question is going to be morphed into something sinister in his mind for him to try to use later to smear his personal hit list.

re: #224 Edgar

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

Get behind thee, douche...

re: #224 Edgar

Find a comment where I called 0bama hitler.

re: #201 BlueCanuck

re: #226 LeePro

Band-width, you know.

re: #224 Edgar

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

Okay, spin this.

re: #228 Sharmuta

I think the lesson here is don't engage with edgar. Even asking edgar a simple question is going to be morphed into something sinister in his mind for him to try to use later to smear his personal hit list.

Admit what you did. This is getting sad.

re: #230 Sharmuta

Find a comment where I called 0bama hitler.

He won't, because that would prove you right and take away his little "victory"...

re: #228 Sharmuta

I think the lesson here is don't engage with edgar. Even asking edgar a simple question is going to be morphed into something sinister in his mind for him to try to use later to smear his personal hit list.

Oh...yes. I feel like watching 'Monk' for some reason...

re: #233 Edgar

Admit what you did. This is getting sad.

I admit it- I asked you a question as to what you would compare the intimidation of speech to.

re: #213 Edgar

Thank you. That's more than Sharmuta has done.

I don't accept you fucking thank you. You are so fucking dumb, you don't even realize that I am not saying that there was any problem with my post in Sept. 2008 and my post on this thread tonight.

I am admitting to the fact that if you take both of my statements, stand along, they seem to contradict myself.

They do not. You have to understand MY insight into the book and, of course, my stage adaptation.

But, you jerk off, think that you read minds or some shit like that, so, you are cumming so fast you don't even see that you got your dick up the wrong hole, and you jump all over me.

re: #224 Edgar

Well, Walter owned up to it and Sharmuta tried to weasel out of it.

A pleasant surprise, in regards to Walter. Thought they'd both be in furious spin mode right now.

Actually, you're wrong. Your "facts" become twisted somehow in your mind, Edgar, and you twist others' words as well.

re: #230 Sharmuta

Find a comment where I called 0bama hitler.

Nice strawman. You compared Obama's tactics to those of Hitler.

re: #238 Intrepid

Actually, you're wrong. Your "facts" become twisted somehow in your mind, Edgar, and you twist others' words as well.

Correct-to-mundo... see my 237.

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

I don't accept you fucking thank you. You are so fucking dumb, you don't even realize that I am not saying that there was any problem with my post in Sept. 2008 and my post on this thread tonight.

I am admitting to the fact that if you take both of my statements, stand along, they seem to contradict myself.

They do not. You have to understand MY insight into the book and, of course, my stage adaptation.

But, you jerk off, think that you read minds or some shit like that, so, you are cumming so fast you don't even see that you got your dick up the wrong hole, and you jump all over me.

Time to do what we should've done before, which is to put Edgar on permanent GAZE and not give him the attention he craves...after a while, he'll either get the message or he'll melt down and Lao Stinky will dispose of the carcass.

And here's another little gem I have found.

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

I don't accept you fucking thank you. You are so fucking dumb, you don't even realize that I am not saying that there was any problem with my post in Sept. 2008 and my post on this thread tonight.

I am admitting to the fact that if you take both of my statements, stand along, they seem to contradict myself.

They do not. You have to understand MY insight into the book and, of course, my stage adaptation.

But, you jerk off, think that you read minds or some shit like that, so, you are cumming so fast you don't even see that you got your dick up the wrong hole, and you jump all over me.

Walter throws a tantrum= I win.

re: #243 Edgar

Walter throws a tantrum= I win.

GAZE

Yeah- I magically changed my opinion just tonight to appease Charles that people were out of line calling 0bama hitler- this proves it!

Oh, wait.

re: #244 talon_262

GAZE

Right, when you get busted for lying do one of two things:

1) Throw a tantrum like Walter did

2) Do logical somersaults like Sharmuta

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

Don't hold back, Walter...tell Edgar what how really think!

/

Edgar would probably delve back into my post history and find where I exclaimed "Well smack my granny", and then accuse me of abusing the elderly.

That's called "Creeping Edgar-ism"; ignoring the point the person actually made and accuse them of what you wish you could prove was the point they made. He's done it with Mandy, he's done it numerous times with Sharmuta. He did so with Dianna, and in a rather insulting way.

He's a shit-stirrer, pure and simple. Best if we GAZE, I guess.

re: #215 capitalistbaby

You are welcome.

Experience is a hard teacher, and many fools will learn by no other. Yuri was as aware of that as perhaps anyone.

re: #248 Intrepid

Edgar would probably delve back into my post history and find where I exclaimed "Well smack my granny", and then accuse me of abusing the elderly.

That's called "Creeping Edgar-ism"; ignoring the point the person actually made and accuse them of what you wish you could prove was the point they made. He's done it with Mandy, he's done it numerous times with Sharmuta. He did so with Dianna, and in a rather insulting way.

He's a shit-stirrer, pure and simple. Best if we GAZE, I guess.

Intrepidism - pretending that one meant something different even when the implication of one's statement was obvious.

re: #246 Edgar

Did anybody hear somebody talking?

re: #248 Intrepid

LOL! Granny abuser...

re: #251 talon_262

Must be those pesky midges again.

/now where did Walter put that bug spray.

re: #251 talon_262

Next month you will be accused of hearing loss.

re: #251 talon_262

Did anybody hear somebody talking?

Buzzing mosquito. That's about it.