Beat it.

Pretty soon everything is going to be for all-well, all except the people working for the money to make everything "free".

re: #2 livefreeor die

Pretty soon everything is going to be free for all-well, all except the people working for the money to make everything "free".

PIMF. Fixed it.

*WHACK*

Start off a free for all on the right note!

re: #4 jcm

*WHACK*

Start off a free for all on the right note!

I feel like whacking somebody too!

Midway is on AMC.

Will Obama graduate from the Electoral College?

Got a creationist trying to peddle lies in that "Devil in Dover" thread, if anyone's interested. It's a continual source of amazement to me how people who purport to be pious and devout will blatantly lie to promote creationism, and lie about things that are easy to catch them on.

re: #7 shiek al beif salami

Will Obama graduate from the Electoral College?

I'm glad the past week is over. Not watching the news, reading LGF, and watching the beginning cracks in the Teflon as Barry has to start making decisions about issues has helped.

FREE for all? I feel like AIG right now...$50's and $100 will be fine, thanks!

When and where do we report for re-education?

re: #7 shiek al beif salami

Will Obama graduate from the Electoral College?

He's a couple of carbon credits short.

Ah, Charleton Heston and Toshiro Mafume, great movie. Here's to my great-uncle who served on the island but didn't want to talk about it. Thank you Uncle Ernest.

Abortion for convenience is explicitly, morally wrong and that is why it should be politically opposed.

/I support an immediate $800 BILLION dollar bail out for unwanted children...

re: #6 MandyManners

Midway is on AMC.

Actually it's in San Diego harbor. Great aviation museum!

re: #8 Charles

Got a creationist trying to peddle lies in that "Devil in Dover" thread, if anyone's interested. It's a continual source of amazement to me how people who purport to be pious and devout will blatantly lie to promote creationism, and lie about things that are easy to catch them on.

That thread is still going? Said creationist must like talking to walls.

re: #12 Racer X

of a bs.

CalBear, briefly? Yes, Charlie Rose is just now (Nov 5) realizing the enormity of Obama's Cult of Personality, and Rose is thinking (finally) "Where have we SEEN THIS BEFORE?" and "Who else was a One-Man Leader who managed his own spectacle?"

/Newsweek ?

Jindal's on CNN. Are they trying to make him the token conservative?

FOOOOOOD FIIIIIIIIGHT!

re: #16 livefreeor die

That thread is still going? Said creationist must like talking to walls.

The thread that wouldn't die!

re: #6 MandyManners

Midway is on AMC.

Torpedo Squadron 8.

All members of Torpedo Squadron 8 who flew from the Hornet on that day perished in the action, with the exception of Ensign George Gay.

Lt. Commander John C. Waldron
Lt. Raymond A. Moore
Lt. James C. Owens, Jr.
Lt.(jg) George M. Campbell
Lt.(jg) John P. Gray
Lt.(jg) Jeff D. Woodson
Ens. William W. Abercrombie
Ens. William W. Creamer
Ens. Harold J. Ellison
Ens. William R. Evans
Ens. Henry R. Kenyon
Ens. Ulvert M. Moore
Ens. Grant W. Teats
Robert B. Miles, Aviation Pilot 1c
Horace F. Dobbs, Chief Radioman
Amelio Maffei, Radioman 1
Tom H. Pettry, Radioman 1
Otway D. Creasy, Jr. Radioman 2
Ross H. Bibb, Jr., Radioman 2
Darwin L. Clark, Radioman 2
Ronald J. Fisher, Radioman 2
Hollis Martin, Radioman 2
Bernerd P. Phelps Radioman 2
As well L. Picou, Seaman 2
Francis S. Polston, Seaman 2
Max A. Calkins, Radioman 3
George A. Field, Radioman 3
Robert K. Huntington, Radioman 3
William F. Sawhill, Radioman 3

Al Frankin, UFB.

re: #11 rawmuse

When and where do we report for re-education?

They'll come and get you.
It takes a while to get the camps ready, you know.
Just wait, sometime, in the middle of the night, you'll hear banging, breaking glass, and "Raus! Judenische schwein!"
/ to be safe

re: #21 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

The thread that wouldn't die!

Sounds like they're hunting for BRAINSSSSS.

re: #8 Charles

Got a creationist trying to peddle lies in that "Devil in Dover" thread, if anyone's interested. It's a continual source of amazement to me how people who purport to be pious and devout will blatantly lie to promote creationism, and lie about things that are easy to catch them on.

It looks like he gave up.

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

It looks like he gave up.

Aw, man. All clue batted up and no where to go.

three black helicopters flew over low today, and reminded why I am free.

We interupt this thread to bring you a message from George Bush's "man of peace"

"The ways of the shahids [martyrs] Arafat, Abu Jihad [Khalil Ibrahim al-Wazir], George Habash and even Sheikh Ahmed Yassin - are the ways we recognize. These are the ways in which we are meant to preserve the national interests of the Palestinian people,"

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told thousands of Fatah supporters who had rallied for the commemoration of the former PA chairman's death.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

I'm drinking a Foster's oil can. Yuck.

re: #6 MandyManners

Midway is on AMC.

I know. Wonderful movie. But I've seen it about a dozen times.

So I'm watching Das Boot instead.

Hey... they're veterans, aren't they?

/

re: #8 Charles

Yeah, that "bear false witness" clause does mean something.

re: #23 majic1

Al Frankin, UFB.

Almost all the catch up votes came from 3 precincts as the result of corrected tabulation errors.

Something stinks to high heaven.

Ben Hur posted this earlier today.

Robert Malley is one of the most often quoted commentators on U.S. Middle East policy and the Arab-Israeli conflict, thanks mostly to his time in the Clinton administration, where he served on the National Security Council as Director for Near East and South Asian Affairs, and also as Special Assistant to the President for Arab-Israeli Affairs. Malley served in these positions despite having no special expertise in Middle East questions – he is a Harvard-trained lawyer and later spent a few years at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar.

With the beginning of the Bush administration in 2001 Malley moved over to the policy and think tank world, continuing his involvement with Middle East issues. He was Senior Policy Advisor at the Center for Middle East Peace and Economic Cooperation, and is now with the Soros-funded International Crisis Group, where he serves as Middle East and North Africa Program Director. It is since joining the policy and analysis world that his media profile took off: for example, searching Robert Malley on Google yields 27,000 hits while a similar search on the professional news database Nexis returns 1,358 citations.

He is perhaps most well known for a controversial series of articles in 2001 blaming Israel and exonerating Arafat for the failure of the Clinton peace efforts.

Malley has recently also been listed by the Washington Post as a Middle East advisor to Presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama, though others have disputed this.

SNIP

In the 1970's the Malley family lived in France, where Robert’s father Simon Malley, published a radical magazine about Africa, Afrique-Asie, which supported various leftist “liberation movements” as well as the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. According to the Washington Post:

Police are looking for the editor of Afrique-Asie magazine, whose pro-Soviet line and support for certain Third World countries is said to have upset President Valery Giscard d'Estain, The Sunday Times of London reported.

Egyptian-born Simon Malley, 47, his American wife Barbara and their three children reportedly have gone into hiding. They face expulsion for what officials describe as "political activities which do not correspond with, and even run contrary to, French interests in certain countries."

Afrique-Asie, which has a circulation of nearly 120,000 mostly in Africa and Latin America, is said to have received Soviet financial backing. Malley, a founder of the Egyptian Communist Party, arrived in France 11 years ago from the United States, where he worked for a Cairo newspaper. (Washington Post, Aug. 7, 1980)

SNIP

Interesting bit of fascism on display in California right now over Prop. 8. Be interested to hear how it turns out.

re: #22 jcm

It's really something of a miracle that we won at Midway.

re: #29 opinionated

wasn't arafat famous for something at one time?

re: #22 jcm

The actual Hornet is docked over in Alameda. I pay it a visit about once a year.

Do you miss Arafat, like they miss Arafat, oh, oh, oh what a corpse.

MK Ahmed Tibi (UAL) also spoke at the rally, saying that "all Palestinians miss Arafat and, whereas in the US, a black president was elected, here, racism and fascism continue unabated."

Tibi said that the struggle must end with the establishment of Arafat's dream. He appealed to Arafat to "rise from his grave and liberate the Palestinian people."

re: #20 Occasional Reader

FOOOOOOD FIIIIIIIIGHT!

Which is perfectly fine, as long as you're using real butter and cream.

I have to go drool over House now. Any other Atlanta lizards (or intrepid travelers) who want to come to the Christmas party, my nic is blue.

re: #37 shiek al beif salami

wasn't arafat famous for something at one time?

Fashion adviser to the stars?

re: #41 MandyManners

Gillette pitchman?

re: #41 MandyManners

Fashion adviser to the stars?

LOL

re: #32 rawmuse

Yeah, that "bear false witness" clause does mean something.

I thought it was "bear arms"? I'm so confused.

re: #31 Occasional Reader

Still watching The Longest Day on AMC here in AZ.

Good evening Lizards --

re: #33 jcm

Something stinks to high heaven.

Maybe the sea will rise enough that DC will flood, they'll all drown, and we can start over.
Hey - can't be any worse than what we have now.

re: #44 Occasional Reader

At least I'm not the one who started talking about guns this time.

re: #45 Macker

Still watching The Longest Day on AMC here in AZ.

Well, you would be, wouldn't you?
/

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

re: #40 doppelganglander

good night doppel.

re: #36 Occasional Reader

It's really something of a miracle that we won at Midway.

Yeah, the indecision of the Japanese in arming their planes, the "fluke" timing of the torpedo attack then the dive bombers, and Fletcher's decision to withdraw. And the willingness of guys like those in Torpedo 8 to give everything in the effort.

re: #44 Occasional Reader

You're trying to turn this in to a gun thread!

Repeating this - I didn't see a new thread coming up...

It's nice to have some positive news today in Israel's municipal elections.

It looks like Nir Barkat will win as Mayor in Jerusalem, which is what I was hoping.

Barkat is a secular candidate who has support among secular Jews, religious nationalist Jews, and Modern Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is 10 minutes from my home in Judea. If Barkat's lead holds and he wins, I think he will do good things for Jerusalem.

I'm heading home in two weeks (at long last) with my North Carolina job in tow.

I'm praying like crazy that Likud will win in February.

Seeing Barkat leading in Jerusalem is a good feeling, in the meantime.

Tuesday Evening Free For All........

'bout time we got that free stuff......

/just waiting for the disillusion to set in...........

re: #33 jcm

Almost all the catch up votes came from 3 precincts as the result of corrected tabulation errors.

Something stinks to high heaven.

Don't they have to "relook" at all the ballots in a recount? How can they have not found any for Coleman yet? How hard is the Republican party fighting this?

re: #45 Macker

It's a fantastic movie. IIRC Stanely Kubric directed it.

re: #50 Charles

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

Palin didn't seem ready to shove her beliefs down anyone's throats.

re: #50 Charles

People are starting to make a distinction between Republican and conservative for reasons like this.

re: #37 shiek al beif salami

wasn't arafat famous for something at one time?

He died on a Jewish holiday.

re: #50 Charles

The GOP farm team ain't looking good.

I see where Franken's cronies keep finding more dhimmie votes....pretty soon they will steal that one too. Is there nothing sacred any more? Will they stoop to any length to win? Do rules only apply to Republicans? Am I talking to myself here?

Ancient 4,300 year-old pyramid discovered in Egypt

Thank God it wasn't one of those modern 4,300 year-old Pyramids!

/

Damn, you guys keep trying to bring up guns in these threads.

Sad, really.

/

re: #50 Charles

Mitt belongs to that cult, so he's out too...

(No - I don't think that, but ask anyone on the left. And some on the right. I don't know how many in the middle. Remember the primaries?)

Anyone listening to O'Reilly being interviewed by Marvin Kalb on FOX? Kalb is about as be liberal as they come. WOW

re: #56 livefreeor die

Don't they have to "relook" at all the ballots in a recount? How can they have not found any for Coleman yet? How hard is the Republican party fighting this?

Amazingly, this all has occurred even though there hasn’t even yet been a recount. Just local election officials correcting claimed typos in how the numbers were reported. Counties will certify their results today, and their final results will be sent to the secretary of state by Friday. The actual recount won’t even start until November 19.

The WA '04 recount was even worse than magical tabulation errors.

re: #60 VegasRick

whatever happened to yassir's brother, nossir?

re: #66 jorline

Anyone listening to O'Reilly being interviewed by Marvin Kalb on FOX? Kalb is about as be liberal as they come. WOW

yes-- what is on his lip?

re: #61 Killgore Trout

The GOP farm team ain't looking good.

I'm surprised that McCain has not said anything about the recent comments made about Palin. Even if they are true, I would expect that he would clarify the issue.

I don't see any stars in the conservative movement or among Republicans, not a one.

re: #62 bolivar

I see where Franken's cronies keep finding more dhimmie votes....pretty soon they will steal that one too. Is there nothing sacred any more? Will they stoop to any length to win? Do rules only apply to Republicans? Am I talking to myself here?

What?

re: #64 Occasional Reader

It's the patriarchal urge to turn everything into a phallic symbol.

Can't be helped.

re: #47 Killer Tomato

Maybe the sea will rise enough that DC will flood, they'll all drown, and we can start over.
Hey - can't be any worse than what we have now.

That can't possibly happen. Obama won.

/

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

It's pretty odd McCain is still silent. I don't know what to make of that but it does seem very unlike him.

re: #69 bellamags

yes-- what is on his lip?

shit!

re: #68 shiek al beif salami

whatever happened to yassir's brother, nossir?

Married their sister, yessam.

re: #44 Occasional Reader

I thought it was "bear arms"? I'm so confused.

As opposed to witnessing false bears? How about arming bears?

Brace yourself for a new round of Muhammed-bullshit. Kurt Westergaard, who made the original bomb-in-turban-muhammed-cartoon, and Lars Hedegaard (author of a book on Muhammed which started the whole charade) are about to release a new book, containing amongst other things another batch of 26 muhammed cartoons:

The author Lars Hedegaard says:

"I will not accept any restriction on freedom of speech. Harsh ideological opponents and enemies are not to believe that mafia methods like murder, arson and violence are arguments which we will shrink back for in the public debate."

Author: I don’t cower for mortal enemies

The cartoonist Kurt Westergaard says:

"No [I’m not afraid]. I am 73 years old. At this age, you are not so scared anymore. I might as well be courageous. If not, then you can’t live."

New Muhammed cartoons coming up

- the book will be released the first of December. I hope the islamists pay close attention. Let them rave and rail to their hearts content - the West will not be cowered by any form of violence or threat of violence.

re: #73 Fat Jolly Penguin

the seas stopped rising on November 5.

re: #47 Killer Tomato

Maybe the sea will rise enough that DC will flood, they'll all drown,

[a-HEM]

re: #35 Nutmeg

Interesting bit of fascism on display in California right now over Prop. 8. Be interested to hear how it turns out.

I thought that was defeated.

re: #40 doppelganglander

Which is perfectly fine, as long as you're using real butter and cream.

I have to go drool over House now. Any other Atlanta lizards (or intrepid travelers) who want to come to the Christmas party, my nic is blue.

Wait - where am I going?

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

I'm surprised that McCain has not said anything about the recent comments made about Palin. Even if they are true, I would expect that he would clarify the issue.

I don't see any stars in the conservative movement or among Republicans, not a one.

That's John McCain for you. The maverick. Letting his running mate be savaged because of leaks, and sitting back and saying nothing - because it benefits him to have her blamed for the loss.

re: #71 Walter L. Newton

They have been resurrecting votes from seemingly out of nowhere. Now if their (dhimmie) precinct workers are that incompetent they have a lot more trouble in Minnesota than we thought.

re: #81 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I thought that was defeated.

So did 53% of cali voters.

re: #79 shiek al beif salami

the seas stopped rising on November 5.

Correct...it was parted on the November 5th.

re: #74 Killgore Trout

It's pretty odd McCain is still silent. I don't know what to make of that but it does seem very unlike him.

This just in...

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

I'm surprised that McCain has not said anything about the recent comments made about Palin. Even if they are true, I would expect that he would clarify the issue.

I don't see any stars in the conservative movement or among Republicans, not a one.

That's why the GOP needs to cultivate talent from the minor leagues...
There is alot of young conservative talent around and we need to find the best and brightest and bring them up through the ranks..It will help the party in the long run..bring in the young blood...

re: #50 Charles

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

Richard Land knows how to win the next election.

To regain a majority, Republicans must embrace core values with such conviction that Americans will welcome where Republicans will lead them in the future.

The first core value must be a pro-life agenda. Republicans must advocate for all life from conception to natural death.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Never mind that voters in Colorado, South Dakota and California defeated ballot measures that would have banned or restricted abortions.

re: #74 Killgore Trout

It's pretty odd McCain is still silent. I don't know what to make of that but it does seem very unlike him.

It goes back to what I have been saying for months. The whole lot of them are not working for us. We don't matter, we don't count, we are simply a nasty necessity, they need our votes on a piece of paper. If they could find a way to get rid of voting, they would be happy.

They work for big business, their own personal interests, for the power for the ego, nothing else.

THere will be a new civil war, mark my word. In the next 20 years, no more than that.

re: #38 rawmuse

The actual Hornet is docked over in Alameda. I pay it a visit about once a year.

That's the old Essex-class Hornet. CV-8, the veteran of Midway lived but for a few more months, being sunk at The Battle of Santa Cruz in October 1942. The "Yorktowns" were a great class of ships. You want to cry, go and look of the pictures of the Enterprise - CV-6 - being broken up in 1960.

re: #80 Occasional Reader

[a-HEM]

It would be the best thing that could happen but, let W get the hell outta Dodge please. He has put up with enough leftie bullshit and really should not have to endure that too.

re: #86 jorline

now there's a great sucking sound as the oceans pull back.

He's a Lightworker.

re: #83 Charles

That's John McCain for you. The maverick. Letting his running mate be savaged because of leaks, and sitting back and saying nothing - because it benefits him to have her blamed for the loss.

He's on Leno Tonight. Wanna bet if he will say anything or if Leno will broach the subject? I say no to both.

re: #50 Charles

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

Speaking as an Evangelical Christian, from the Christian side of the fence we need another type of reformation. One that realizes how faith and politics relate. Simply put salvation comes individually, not via politically agendas.

Christians need to practice, preach, and vote their conscience. Not put it on the ballot or make it a litmus test.

re: #84 bolivar

They have been resurrecting votes from seemingly out of nowhere. Now if their (dhimmie) precinct workers are that incompetent they have a lot more trouble in Minnesota than we thought.

Ah, my comment was a joke. You said are you talking to yourself and I reply "What?" See, a little humor, maybe very little in this case.

re: #80 Occasional Reader

[a-HEM]

ah..... er.... um....
HEY!
Wanna talk about guns?

re: #87 livefreeor die

Palin "didn't hurt" McCain's campaign? WTF? Picking her was the one move that nearly saved your campaign, John!

Is this the drinking thread, BTW? F*** it; I'm here, and I'm drinking.

re: #91 calcajun

In fact, there were more than 2 USN ships named "Hornet". The first one was commissioned shortly before the War of 1812, followed by several others. I think there may be about 5 total.

re: #94 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

He's on Leno Tonight. Wanna bet if he will say anything or if Leno will broach the subject? I say no to both.

He says nice things about Palin, but nothing about the leaks.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #83 Charles

I think McCain defended Barrack Hussein Obama more vigorously than he's defended not just Palin, but the Republican Party in general. And he blames us (the GOP base) for his defeat?

re: #95 jcm

This is the left's defining distinction: political agenda is religion for them.

re: #50 Charles

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

Are you upset that these people hold a personal belief? Or is it about the law?

I ask because you've included Gingrich on this list without knowing whether he even believes in creation, much less whether he's pushing it on anyone else.

I'll note, too, Charles, a corollary to one of your favorite sayings: Belief in a creator does not preclude belief in evolution.

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

Ah, my comment was a joke. You said are you talking to yourself and I reply "What?" See, a little humor, maybe very little in this case.

It is ok Walter, I have been under the weather - you know the obasm syndrome and all. I just don't give a crap anymore. Is there a cure or pill for that ailment?

re: #100 Charles

He says nice things about Palin, but nothing about the leaks.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Do we know for a fact there were leaks, or did a reporter state there were unnamed sources in the McCain camp?

goodnight lizards

re: #34 MandyManners

The stories about Obama's people will keep coming out over the next several months. This is the big grab. America went to war in 1917 because the Kaiser's government had the nerve to send a telegram to Mexico offering them a deal if they allied with Germany against the US. We almost went to thermonuclear war when a lunatic who had defected to the USSR came back and killed our President. Now we find multiple links between the KGB and the man who was just elected President of the US. For offenses a tenth what Obama is linked to the leaders of both parties had marched into Richard Nixon's office and told him to get out. Now we have Nancy Pelosi, Reid and others of equally low stature when we need Statesmen. That is the real tragedy, not the insertion of foreign agents in the Executive but the total collapse of the Legislative branch.

re: #83 Charles

- because it benefits him to have her blamed for the loss.

I have a hard time understanding that. It reflects very poorly on him if he picked an incompetent VP and it's not like he's going to run for president again. It just doesn't make sense.

re: #100 Charles

He says nice things about Palin, but nothing about the leaks.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Well, hells bells. Thanks for the link.

re: #83 Charles

That's John McCain for you. The maverick. Letting his running mate be savaged because of leaks, and sitting back and saying nothing - because it benefits him to have her blamed for the loss.

?

I thought those accusations were made up?

Also - how would McCain benefit? It's not like he is going to run again.

re: #88 HoosierHoops

That's why the GOP needs to cultivate talent from the minor leagues...
There is alot of young conservative talent around and we need to find the best and brightest and bring them up through the ranks..It will help the party in the long run..bring in the young blood...

It won't work. DC is broken. Anyone we send up there will be infected with the same virus that all our politicians are suffering from.

We have to arrest, convict and clean out the criminals in DC first. We have to get out of the business of supporting big business, we have to get out of the business of propping up every beggar that comes to DC with their hands out, we have to tell all the special interest to go home.

Nothing is going to change. Mark my word, there will be a new civil war with in 20 years.

McCain says don't blame Palin

re: #101 Iron Fist

totally agree with your viewpoint!

re: #110 Racer X

?

I thought those accusations were made up?

Also - how would McCain benefit? It's not like he is going to run again.

History books!

re: #95 jcm

Christians need to practice, preach, and vote their conscience. Not put it on the ballot or make it a litmus test.

What does that mean, though, voting your conscience -- if not voting for people who hold views similar to yours?

re: #92 bolivar

It would be the best thing that could happen but, let W get the hell outta Dodge please. He has put up with enough leftie bullshit and really should not have to endure that too.

Uh, and me? I live here, too.

re: #103 Cognito

Are you upset that these people hold a personal belief? Or is it about the law?

I ask because you've included Gingrich on this list without knowing whether he even believes in creation, much less whether he's pushing it on anyone else.

I'll note, too, Charles, a corollary to one of your favorite sayings: Belief in a creator does not preclude belief in evolution.

Excuse me, but if you haven't been paying attention it's not my fault. Gingrich has said different things to different people on the issue, as I wrote. Try Google; it works.

And at least two of the creationists on that list are activists, who have tried to promote it as a political issue. Again, Google is good for this if you really want to know.

re: #98 Jack Reacher

Palin "didn't hurt" McCain's campaign? WTF? Picking her was the one move that nearly saved your campaign, John!

Is this the drinking thread, BTW? F*** it; I'm here, and I'm drinking.

My #30 made it one ; )

re: #105 Outrider

Isn't "unnamed sources" reporter-ese for "the voices in my head, saying what I desperately wish to be true?"

re: #112 rawmuse

McCain says don't blame Palin

I read that. He is vague, saying no more than he has to which appears to be addressing the issue. He's not selling me a bit.

re: #7 shiek al beif salami

Will Obama graduate from the Electoral College?

might be our first chance to ever see one of his transcripts

re: #102 shiek al beif salami

This is the left's defining distinction: political agenda is religion for them.

Very true....

I see a glimmer of hope for an Obama administration.
President Obama is so insanely popular around the world that he will, by mesmerizing the leaders of the first world, convince them to participate in the redistribution and sharing of America's national debt.
Then he will use his home-town talent to convince OPEC to fully fund the GWOT by running it as an international protection racket.
The profits will then be used to resettle the Palestinians in the ANWR.
Viola!

re: #103 Cognito

Are you upset that these people hold a personal belief? Or is it about the law?

I ask because you've included Gingrich on this list without knowing whether he even believes in creation, much less whether he's pushing it on anyone else.

I'll note, too, Charles, a corollary to one of your favorite sayings: Belief in a creator does not preclude belief in evolution.

NO mention of Mike Pence or Eric Cantor?!?!?!?

re: #120 Walter L. Newton

I'll watch it and make up my mind accordingly.
But, as I have said previously, I am done with post mortem.
I have no more garments to rend.

A joke I heard.

A reporter ask president elect Obama if he was an elitist.
Obama guffaw so hard at the question his monocle fell out.

re: #18 Karridine

CalBear, briefly? Yes, Charlie Rose is just now (Nov 5) realizing the enormity of Obama's Cult of Personality, and Rose is thinking (finally) "Where have we SEEN THIS BEFORE?" and "Who else was a One-Man Leader who managed his own spectacle?"

/Newsweek ?

Free FEAR For All?

More from the "man of peace".

"We rejected Israeli proposals that stipulated making concessions, including on Jerusalem and the refugees," Abbas said in Ramallah, according to DPA.

"We either get all six points - Jerusalem, settlements, borders, refugees, water and security - or nothing at all," he said.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

From the terrorist's mouth. There is no negotiations. There is full Israeli surrender to all their demands or else.

Enter stage Left- Obama and his foreign policy clowns.

re: #95 jcm

Oh goodness - HEAR! HEAR! I'm so tired of evangelical Christian leaders holding the Republican party for ransom!

If they would focus on their primary mission - loving God and loving their neighbors as they love themselves - then they'd be way too busy to get involved in trying to enact political solutions.

I've never read in scripture where Jesus gave his disciples any type of teaching or command that even hinted that they should seek to advance "the Kingdom" by political means. It was always understood that they were to do their good works in spite of what is happening in the political realm.

Mitt Romney is one of the few Republicans who's sane on the creationism issue:

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

re: #107 lifeofthemind

The stories about Obama's people will keep coming out over the next several months. This is the big grab. America went to war in 1917 because the Kaiser's government had the nerve to send a telegram to Mexico offering them a deal if they allied with Germany against the US. We almost went to thermonuclear war when a lunatic who had defected to the USSR came back and killed our President. Now we find multiple links between the KGB and the man who was just elected President of the US. For offenses a tenth what Obama is linked to the leaders of both parties had marched into Richard Nixon's office and told him to get out. Now we have Nancy Pelosi, Reid and others of equally low stature when we need Statesmen. That is the real tragedy, not the insertion of foreign agents in the Executive but the total collapse of the Legislative branch.

I think both the executive and legislative branches are under attack, and the judicial branch will still be screwing us over in 20 years with CBBHO's life-time appointments.

re: #123 Spare O'Lake

Settle the Palestinians in France - it will be improvement for both parties.

re: #125 rawmuse

I'll watch it and make up my mind accordingly.
But, as I have said previously, I am done with post mortem.
I have no more garments to rend.

I know what you mean. Nothing has changed and nothing is going to change.

re: #117 Charles

Excuse me, but if you haven't been paying attention it's not my fault. Gingrich has said different things to different people on the issue, as I wrote. Try Google; it works.

And at least two of the creationists on that list are activists, who have tried to promote it as a political issue. Again, Google is good for this if you really want to know.

No need to get upset. I didn't use Google because Google can't answer the question I asked.

re: #50 Charles

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

Crap, cllcked on the wrong link....

NO mention of Mike Pence or Eric Cantor?!?!?!?

re: #101 Iron Fist

I think McCain defended Barrack Hussein Obama more vigorously than he's defended not just Palin, but the Republican Party in general. And he blames us (the GOP base) for his defeat?

His defending BHO drove me nuts. But then I realized it was all part of his concession planning.

re: #116 Occasional Reader

Uh, and me? I live here, too.

Ok OC you can leave too but, don't tell Barry about it - it is a surprise for him and his buddies. Of course this is all predicated on the false assumption that anybody can control the sea and stuff like that there and the only one that can do that is God and I don't think he works quite that way.

Anybody heard a good obama joke? Comedians tell us there is nothing funny about him - I say bs - his ears, his ugly wife, his um uh and so forth. He is no genius and time will reveal that to all who care to notice. Wonder how long it will be before they start to turn on him? I give him 3 months tops.

Opinionated (#128),

From the terrorist's mouth. There is no negotiations. There is full Israeli surrender to all their demands or else.

So what's new?

re: #90 Walter L. Newton

We almost got to play that game in 1994. Really, though, I agree with those people around the Net that have called this a Cold Civil War right now. I expect this to stay the case no matter what Obama does. He won't repair the rift, certainly. If he pushes his agenda he widen it.

If he pushes hard enough you could be correct. It could break open in a number of different directions. These next four years are going to be interesting.

re: #81 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I thought that was defeated.

It won - 52- 48. The silly thing is that same-sex couples have all the privileges married couples have with the domestic partner statutes. They're pissed because they cannot legally call their civil unions marriages. That's what it boils down to.

This one reason why social conservatism is still viable. Thirty states have these statutes as well as civil union statutes. Part of social conservatism means retaining traditional values as a society while allowing all to exercise their freedom of conscience and respecting the individual to pursue those beliefs. It does not mean the abandonment of institutions long cherished and maintained which promote healthy values for the pleasure of a minority who seeking validation for the choices they have made.

In a way, social conservatism is an absolutist position; there is an objective difference between right and wrong. One you move from this to a permissive relativism then right and wrong are more a whim, a vogue, a passing fad. I need not tell what lies at the end of that road.

Any way--running too long. Gotta finish work and get to the family.

re: #123 Spare O'Lake

I see a glimmer of hope for an Obama administration.
President Obama is so insanely popular around the world that he will, by mesmerizing the leaders of the first world, convince them to participate in the redistribution and sharing of America's national debt.
Then he will use his home-town talent to convince OPEC to fully fund the GWOT by running it as an international protection racket.
The profits will then be used to resettle the Palestinians in the ANWR.
Viola!

Poor caribou.

re: #117 Charles

...Google is good for this if you really want to know.

So long as you don't care if Google sends your search statistics, no personal info (so they say), to the feds...

/paranoid that big bro be watchin'

S*&@#w the O. This is Veterans Day
My father was a Marine during world war II. Guada Canal and Iwo Jima. He passed away in 1998. To this day when I see a Marine I cry. Found a letter he wrote to my mom. "Dear Margaret, Don't worry about me. Fighting Japs on a little island called Iwo Jima" My husband tried to get him to talk about Iwo but he just gave him the hard-assed-marine stare and shook his head no. I love you Dad! Catherine

re: #62 bolivar

I see where Franken's cronies keep finding more dhimmie votes....pretty soon they will steal that one too. Is there nothing sacred any more? Will they stoop to any length to win? Do rules only apply to Republicans? Am I talking to myself here?

I think you are talking to yourself ... and your answer "they'll stoop to any length to win" is exactly right.

re: #95 jcm

Speaking as an Evangelical Christian, from the Christian side of the fence we need another type of reformation. One that realizes how faith and politics relate. Simply put salvation comes individually, not via politically agendas.

Christians need to practice, preach, and vote their conscience. Not put it on the ballot or make it a litmus test.

Agree-speaking as another Christian. You live your faith, keeping in mind that everyone around you is trying to the the same...and that we are all broken in some way.

re: #143 cathypop

S*&@#w the O. This is Veterans Day
My father was a Marine during world war II. Guada Canal and Iwo Jima. He passed away in 1998. To this day when I see a Marine I cry. Found a letter he wrote to my mom. "Dear Margaret, Don't worry about me. Fighting Japs on a little island called Iwo Jima" My husband tried to get him to talk about Iwo but he just gave him the hard-assed-marine stare and shook his head no. I love you Dad! Catherine

Very nice! Semper Fi to your dad.

re: #146 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Thank you

re: #141 MandyManners

Poor caribou.

Nah. Rudolph and friend will smell them a mile away.

re: #142 Max Darkside

So long as you don't care if Google sends your search statistics, no personal info (so they say), to the feds...

/paranoid that big bro be watchin'

"Hello, Google executive."

"Hello, Special Agent Orwell."

"Got the national stats?"

"Here you go..."

"Ah. Mmm. Hmm. All boobs, again, with a smattering of celebrity news."

"That pretty much sums it up."

An American engineer held hostage by Islamic militants in Afghanistan was freed in a daring nighttime raid by a Special Operations team last month, a rare move in a country where hostages often pay ransoms — or don't come home at all.

re: #139 Iron Fist

We almost got to play that game in 1994. Really, though, I agree with those people around the Net that have called this a Cold Civil War right now. I expect this to stay the case no matter what Obama does. He won't repair the rift, certainly. If he pushes his agenda he widen it.

If he pushes hard enough you could be correct. It could break open in a number of different directions. These next four years are going to be interesting.

Well, civil war is what happens when a populace feels that there is no redress left, other than violence. And I can easily see that option happening here.

Conservatives have been moaning for almost 8 years now that the Republican party is not real a conservative party anymore.

And now we are seeing the possible beginning of the liberals not being real happy with the possible centrist they put in office.

It's starting to look like no side of the coin has any say in the process. When that happens, both sides will throw the whole bunch over the side of the boat.

re: #134 Cognito

No need to get upset. I didn't use Google because Google can't answer the question I asked.

Your sniping does get old sometimes, you know. Let me ask you a question; since every time I bring up the subject you snipe away like this, are you a creationist yourself?

Sorry to re-post and bogart a thread, but my reply to a friend moonbat on FB:

I guess I just don't see what has been so bad about the past 8 years. Bush was President, but other than that -- um, what? Yes 9/11, not his fault (unless you wear a tinfoil hat), gas prices which HE does not control and the housing crash (hence, the economy) -- which was all caused (and started in 1994 BTW) by Democrats trying to give people who could not afford them mortgages. Good idea, bad practice.

Now, we have Obama who promises a lot of things which frankly, do not seem realistic to me -- ergo neither does the hype surrounding him. My bottom line is that the President simply does not have control over everything that happens. And honestly, I am happy about that fact.

I am very curious to know what exactly about Bush's policies with which you had such an issue. Abortion is still legal, taxes were lowered, and we have not had another terrorist attack in 7 years. Really, what did he do to piss off so many people -- other than being a great scapegoat?

---Please feel free to add anything! He is a nice guy but totally an Obamanut!

re: #130 Charles

Dobson and the religious right will never allow Mitt to run as a Republican. He'll have a tough time with the general public being a Mormon but there would be a revolt if he ever won the republican nomination. They threatened to revolt if he got the VP slot. He may be sane but he's not really a viable candidate.

re: #136 ciaospirit

His defending BHO drove me nuts. But then I realized it was all part of his concession planning.

Must stop using BHO. It is offensive to some liberals who think it code or some sort. I suggest something cheerful and friendly, like Comrade Barry. Kinda like Captain Kangaroo.

re: #130 Charles

Mitt Romney is one of the few Republicans who's sane on the creationism issue:

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

I was hoping for Mitt as VP choice. Don't get me wrong. I like Sarah, but McCain knew his entire campaign was going to be based on BHO's inexperience, so he should've known that you don't choose the same arrow and point it at yourself.

re: #18 Karridine

Apologies if anyone has posted this before, but...
My nomination for Obama's Theme Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ5SVDYBNrY

Turn it up to "11"

Paul Ryan is the rising star of the Republican Party. After the holidays I am going to see what I can do to help him, any way I can.

Free for all implies a smack down. Maybe we do need a peacenik for Secretary of Defense!

re: #131 MandyManners

I think both the executive and legislative branches are under attack, and the judicial branch will still be screwing us over in 20 years with CBBHO's life-time appointments.

Agreed on all points here. Many people may not appreciate that the collapse of the Legislature is significant because they cannot control the Executive now the way they could before in extremis. Politicians were always greasy opportunists, even the collection of Ward Heelers and Union cronies that were produced by the Democrats 4- years ago would have heard about the foriegn connections of the people behind Obama and would have responded by going ape-shit on him.

What will we do about the SCOTUS?

re: #136 ciaospirit

Yeah. If McCain would've brought some balls to the fight he might very well be President-elect right now. Not using Obama's affiliation to Rev. "God Damn America" Wright was fucking unilateral disarmament. It worked as well as unilateral disarmament ever works.

Good evening, lizards!

Shatner Tries To Settle Takei Feud

Good luck with that, Bill.

bolivar (#137),

Wonder how long it will be before they start to turn on him? I give him 3 months tops.

Oh, it won't be long. They'll try like hell but now that he's the only guy on stage they've lost the "hey, look over there" option and will have to start making excuses for him. That will wear thin all too soon for them and then the claws will come out.

Watch for the Leftys to become especially acerbic.

re: #137 bolivar

Anybody heard a good obama joke?

A lizardoid (I can't remember who) came up with the best one I've seen, on the "Obama Day" thread a couple of days ago. Quoting from memory:

Why do they need an Obama Day? The US Postal Service has already announced a plan to print a commemorative stamp, showing Obama's resume. What more do they want?

Is "Contrarian" a religion?

Hitting back at PJ ORourke.

re: #156 ciaospirit

McCain knew his entire campaign was going to be based on BHO's inexperience, so he should've known that you don't choose the same arrow and point it at yourself.

So true.

re: #130 Charles

I overheard a group of libs talking the other night. They were originally going to vote McCain until he chose Palin but ended up actually campaigning for Obama. Trouble is, they were saying some pretty hateful things about Mitt, too, and Mormon's in general. I like Mitt.

re: #162 Iron Fist

I agree. We need a Republican with some big balls. To hell with being nice and if the media does not like it then get in their face and demand to know why they are not on the side of America!

re: #152 Charles

Your sniping does get old sometimes, you know. Let me ask you a question; since every time I bring up the subject you snipe away like this, are you a creationist yourself?

(I think someone got caught farting in the hot tub.)

re: #115 Cognito

What does that mean, though, voting your conscience -- if not voting for people who hold views similar to yours?

Good question. Many Christians tend to vote the surface issue, not the deeper ramifications, or consider the unintended consequences. Christianity is based on choosing God of our own free will, that's a first principal, that principal is in many respects the core of the enlightenment and the development of political and social liberty. That's the conscience I speak of free will and liberty first.

Take the creationist education deal. As we've seen here all too well, the failure to separate faith and science, the failure to see that opening the door for their point of view, opens for all points of view many of which they'd have a cow if it was brought into a school.

Finally a completely (and I always get into trouble on this) on how being a Christian works. It works through many facets, but to us Christians to "get our agenda" we need to convince people one on one to our point of view then the rest will follow automatically.

God gave Christians the free will and liberty to choose him. We Christians should follow that pattern. Give people the same consideration, and convince them to do what is "right" (by our consideration) of their own free volition.

re: #30 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I'm drinking a Foster's oil can. Yuck.

A Foster's Bitter oil can is better.
But I'm having gin with a splash of rosso vermouth
—I bought it, I feel obliged to drink it.
(Does anyone believe that reason?)

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Dobson and the religious right will never allow Mitt to run as a Republican. He'll have a tough time with the general public being a Mormon but there would be a revolt if he ever won the republican nomination. They threatened to revolt if he got the VP slot. He may be sane but he's not really a viable candidate.

Why?

Good evening, lizards!

Shatner Tries To Settle Takei Feud

Good luck with that, Bill.

Marvelous!//

re: #163 Irish Rose

Good evening, lizards!

Shatner Tries To Settle Takei Feud

Good luck with that, Bill.

He looks like W.C Fields.

re: #143 cathypop

Cathypop, I echo your sentiments.

My Dad, Allan Mckay Sr. was a Tech. Sgt. in the Phillipines and would never talk about the war. I asked and he would change the subject. It was only after his death in 1994 that I learned from his sister that when he came home he would awaken in screaming nightmares for many nights. The absolute terror that man (and many more) must have endured just makes me want to weep. I am so sorry that I could not ease his pain and suffering. May you rest in peace Dad and all your comrades as well - job well done.

re: #165 Occasional Reader

A lizardoid (I can't remember who) came up with the best one I've seen, on the "Obama Day" thread a couple of days ago. Quoting from memory:

Why do they need an Obama Day? The US Postal Service has already announced a plan to print a commemorative stamp, showing Obama's resume. What more do they want?

I heard that the post office is laying off 40,000 people. That's enough Obama commemoration for me.

re: #165 Occasional Reader

A lizardoid (I can't remember who) came up with the best one I've seen, on the "Obama Day" thread a couple of days ago. Quoting from memory:

Why do they need an Obama Day? The US Postal Service has already announced a plan to print a commemorative stamp, showing Obama's resume. What more do they want?

To which, if I remember, the response was, "What would they do with the rest of the space on the stamp?"

I am a creationist. If that gets me in trouble somehow, so be it.

re: #132 shiek al beif salami

Settle the Palestinians in France - it will be improvement for both parties.

Yeah, and they could all go over to Mrs. Arafish's for dinner.

re: #150 Racer X

An American engineer held hostage by Islamic militants in Afghanistan was freed in a daring nighttime raid by a Special Operations team last month, a rare move in a country where hostages often pay ransoms — or don't come home at all.

A team of about 30 special operators composed mostly of Navy SEALs flew into the mountains outside Kabul on October 14 to retrieve the 61-year-old American businessman, killing his captors and returning him to safety after nearly two months in captivity, according to an account in the Army Times.

Now that story is my definition of "heartwarming".

re: #152 Charles

Your sniping does get old sometimes, you know. Let me ask you a question; since every time I bring up the subject you snipe away like this, are you a creationist yourself?

I'm not sniping. I'm possibly -- depending on your points -- disagreeing.

As for creation: No, I'm not a creationist of the sort you're after. I think evolution is where it's at, as a method. That does nothing to diminish my belief in a creator, though.

I'm still curious to hear your thoughts on my original question: Would a politician's personal belief in creation invalidate them, in your mind?

re: #170 cathypop

I agree. We need a Republican with some big balls. To hell with being nice and if the media does not like it then get in their face and demand to know why they are not on the side of America!

We need a politician to get into the face of WASHINGTON. The face of special interest, big business and others who hold office ONLY for the joy of the power it gives them. To hell with the MSM.

I like what the Buddha said about it all being an illusion.
Finally got my head around that.
I believe that I am the creator of my own reality.
But I'm not a creationist for that, am I?

/and on the eight day, He paddled out at Rice Bowls..........

While leaving the WH, Bush should hand Obama that days national and international briefings and tell him to organize this.

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

He looks like W.C Fields.

Walter! The other day (maybe it was last year) someone posted several W.C. Fields YouTube clips. Son of a gun was amazing. Was pretty cool. Love old Vaudeville stuff.

Poor T. Boone Pickins. His windfarm scheme is no longer cost effective.

Pickens Puts Texas Wind Farm Project on Hold, Predicts Rising Oil Prices

Historically, there is much less talk about turning to renewables when energy prices get low.

But Pickens said not to worry, oil prices will be heading back up and soon. "I don't see any lower than it is today," he said.

He said that oil will be back to $100 a barrel within a year and that all other commodities will jump back up as well — making his plan more viable.

Yeah, I was really worrying that prices would stay down.

Lawyer chains pregnant girlfriend to couch. Isn't that how she got preggers in the first place?

re: #58 MandyManners

Palin didn't seem ready to shove her beliefs down anyone's throats.

My impression of her as well. Charles, with all due respect, one must choose which hill one wishes to die on. Sarah may harbor beliefs you don't agree with, but she also believes in your right to abstain from her point of view. The next administration may not be so forgiving. As I said before and did not observe the proclamation, so sue me.

So says the flock!

Cheap reference I know.

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Dobson and the religious right will never allow Mitt to run as a Republican. He'll have a tough time with the general public being a Mormon but there would be a revolt if he ever won the republican nomination. They threatened to revolt if he got the VP slot. He may be sane but he's not really a viable candidate.

Sadly true. The Dobson/Robertson crowd will not only withhold support for Romney, they'll actively sabotage him. They really don't even try to hide that; and it's the main reason McCain picked Sarah Palin, because she came from a Pentecostal church and that's about as far right as religion gets.

It worked, McCain got their endorsements. And we see how that turned out.

re: #174 MandyManners

They hate Mormons.

re: #184 Walter L. Newton

The face of special interest, big business

What exactly is wrong with "big business"?

re: #177 bolivar

thank you for your father's service...tis a shame to think of the sacrifice that all these men and women gave so much only to find America in the state it is in....

re: #191 Charles

If anything, anti-Mormon sentiment is stronger now than it was when Romney was in the race, because of Prop 8.

calcajun (#155),

Must stop using BHO. It is offensive to some liberals who think it code or some sort. I suggest something cheerful and friendly, like Comrade Barry. Kinda like Captain Kangaroo.

Bought this a couple days ago.

_{Hey, just trying to fit in.}

re: #183 Cognito

No, I'm not a creationist of the sort you're after.

So which sort of creationist are you?

re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Walter! The other day (maybe it was last year) someone posted several W.C. Fields YouTube clips. Son of a gun was amazing. Was pretty cool. Love old Vaudeville stuff.

Vaudeville, burlesque, Dutch comics, Yiddish comics, all of that from the turn of the century to about 1930, shaped the next 75 years (right up to now) of American humor and variety entertainment.

re: #50 Charles

Karl Rove just cited some of the rising stars in the GOP:

Sarah Palin - creationist
Mike Huckabee - creationist
Bobby Jindal - creationist
Tim Pawlenty - creationist
Mitt Romney - apparently sane
Newt Gingrich - jury's out, he's said different things to different people

The GOP has a huge problem with this issue.

I'm ready for a valid third party option after looking at that.

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

He looks like W.C Fields.

Takei still looks a little unhinged, even after all these years.

re: #179 Fat Jolly Penguin

To which, if I remember, the response was, "What would they do with the rest of the space on the stamp?"

Thanks folks, this is helping the obasm syndrome. A good yuck at BHO's expense is very satisfying.

re: #150 Racer X

An American engineer held hostage by Islamic militants in Afghanistan was freed in a daring nighttime raid by a Special Operations team last month ...

Great job, guys!

PIMF: 40 years ago

re: #158 CalBear84

CalBear, it got stopped at the Thai national gateway...

You got a brief, text description?

re: #197 Charles

So which sort of creationist are you?

I wondered whether you might do that. I'll repeat, then:

I think evolution is where it's at, as a method. That does nothing to diminish my belief in a creator, though.

Anything further is a question of my belief in God. Want to head down that path? I'm happy to. I just think we should go together.

re: #199 gman

The Libertarian are anarchists in conservative suits. The Green Party are communist pacifists. Not sure what the Bull Moose folks are up to these days.

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

I don't think Obama is a centerist, nor do I expect him to govern one, but I also think that he won't be able to please his erstwhile masters on the Left. I don't think the Right will start the shooting, though. The reaction on the Right to the Oklahoma City bombing was one of near universal condemnation. Real, heartfelt condemnation, not the "whatever, don't blame me" "condemnation" that tends to characterize Mohammedan reaction to Mohammedan violence.

At the same time, you are right about the people on both sides feeling disenfranchized being a catalyst for violence. I have actually been surprised that we haven't seen a Leftist suicide bomber already. we've only had the one suicide bomber, and he appears to have been a Mohammedan.

re: #183 Cognito

I'm not sniping. I'm possibly -- depending on your points -- disagreeing.

As for creation: No, I'm not a creationist of the sort you're after. I think evolution is where it's at, as a method. That does nothing to diminish my belief in a creator, though.

I'm still curious to hear your thoughts on my original question: Would a politician's personal belief in creation invalidate them, in your mind?

Thanks for distilling that one down. It is a valid question--if somehow being a creationist would be a deal-breaker for some. In know that Rudy's pro-choice views doomed him in some circles.

Also, that's one area where the GOP needs work; too many single-issue voting blocks. I don't think that we are now in any position to turn back the clock on big government. The question is to what extent does it interfere with daily life and what social programs will be enacted. Frankly, if the programs are meant to teach people who to fish and not just feed them, then I would tend to favor such programs.

Damn, this place can be addictive.

re: #14 experiencedtraveller

Money won't help.

Them kids need something more valuable.

Them kids need good parents.

re: #199 gman

I'm ready for a valid third party option after looking at that.

It's our only hope.

A new mainstream center right party.

re: #149 Cognito

"Ah. Mmm. Hmm. All boobs, again, with a smattering of celebrity news."

LOL

I think Jim DeMint R S.C. has a big future. Very conservative Senator who I thought would have been an excellent VP pick by McCain. Top of the ticket next time, my prediction.

Did anybody else think it was strange that BHO issued a brief written statement for Veteran's Day?

re: #190 GeeWiz

I'm beginning to look at homosexuality and religious beliefs the same way: do/think what you want in privacy/your heart but, don't try to shove it down my throat.

re: #206 Killgore Trout

The Libertarian are anarchists in conservative suits. The Green Party are communist pacifists. Not sure what the Bull Moose folks are up to these days.

I know I know, but I don't see the Republican party changing.

re: #213 ciaospirit

Did anybody else think it was strange that BHO issued a brief written statement for Veteran's Day?

I think it's a miracle that he even issued a statement at all.

re: #193 Occasional Reader

What exactly is wrong with "big business"?

Nothing until they start asking for special breaks, my money, bailouts, hand outs, shielded from certain laws, government turns a blind eye to corporate greed and crimes, bonuses paid up the yang-yo with MY MONEY, you know, just the every day big business sort of scum things.

re: #150 Racer X

Special Ops guys are intense in all they do! Did Barry give them a hearty hooah for this? (I'll admit, I didn't read the article, I got a briefing on it earlier)

re: #194 thedude

thank you for your father's service...tis a shame to think of the sacrifice that all these men and women gave so much only to find America in the state it is in....

It surely is. I only hope we can find some actual honest leadership in DC. Nobody in there now has a snowballs chance in hell of meeting that goal so I am still looking for the leader. Thought we might have it in Sarah and still might but, the media and dhimmie operatives are savaging her pretty badly - might not be able to survive it politically.

re: #184 Walter L. Newton
I would love to be the politician to get in their face but my past .... let's just say that MSN would have a field day and go way beyond the Sarah Palin lies.

re: #156 ciaospirit

McCain knew his entire campaign was going to be based on BHO's inexperience, so he should've known that you don't choose the same arrow and point it at yourself.

Give me a break! The only individual on either ticket with executive experience was Mrs. Palin!

re: #192 Killgore Trout

They hate Mormons.

Makes no sense to me. I'm not fond of LDS but, I cannot imagine holding that against a man/woman when it comes to political leadership. It's not like a Mormon president would force us to wear that under-wear thingy.

re: #213 ciaospirit

He was afraid of sneering? He was trying to figure out if this was Memorial Day or Veteran's Day and wasn't sure how to approach it?

re: #191 Charles

That was one part of Romney's failure. The other was that he did not campaign well; he did not seem as approachable as McCain was. Now, if the economy had not staggered, McCain may have been elected. But, interesting "what if" Romney had been the nominee; how would his business acumen played against Obama's coolness through the crisis.

re: #192 Killgore Trout

They hate Mormons.

Who hates Mormons?

re: #194 thedude

They don't think of it as a shame but a duty. My father never felt bad or wrong about what he did. It was more sadness about friends he lost.

re: #214 MandyManners

I'm beginning to look at homosexuality and religious beliefs the same way: do/think what you want in privacy/your heart but, don't try to shove it down my throat.

BINGO!

ciaospirit (#213),

Did anybody else think it was strange that BHO issued a brief written statement for Veteran's Day?

Strange? No. Completely in character.

re: #77 calcajun

As opposed to witnessing false bears? How about arming bears?

I sure don't like to think about baring false witnesses. Not something a jury needs to see.

re: #215 gman

I know I know, but I don't see the Republican party changing.

Time for a Revolution (in the party that is) tar and feather the blood blues. The one issue (R)s we are a classically liberal, conservative (small c), libertarian (small l) party.

re: #222 MandyManners
It's not like a Mormon president would force us to wear that under-wear thingy.
ROTFLMAO

re: #213 ciaospirit

Did anybody else think it was strange that BHO issued a brief written statement for Veteran's Day?

You mean one of his handlers issued it to simply avoid criticism.

I have a question? The term "Creationist" - does it mean 1) Those who believe that God created the heavens and the earth, regardless of how it was done (could include evolution), 2) Those who believe that God created the earth within a literal six day time frame, 3) Those who believe #2 and reject evolution as a method, or 4) Those who believe #2 and #3 and also want it taught in science classrooms?

Am I confusing some of it with the whole ID thing?

And if someone holds personal beliefs but does not intend to bring those into the public policy arena, should we hold that against them?

?

_{Like a fat kid in dodge-ball,}

I'm out.

re: #183 Cognito

I'm still curious to hear your thoughts on my original question: Would a politician's personal belief in creation invalidate them, in your mind?

Did you miss my posts defending Sarah Palin against the charge she was a creationist, because she explicitly said she didn't want to force it into schools? There are several of those posts here; maybe you should try reading what I've actually written.

However, having said that, it definitely does affect my support for a politician when I learn that they're attached to Dark Ages beliefs like creationism. America has a serious problem with science education, and it sends exactly the wrong message to have highly placed officials who won't repudiate this nonsense.

re: #222 MandyManners

Don't wear it too many days in a row; that'd be change you can believe in.

re: #205 Cognito

I think evolution is where it's at, as a method

To me, it's an acceptable "compromise", politically/socially... but as a theological matter, it makes no sense. An omnipotent being, by definition, doesn't need a "method".

re: #214 MandyManners

I'm beginning to look at homosexuality and religious beliefs the same way: do/think what you want in privacy/your heart but, don't try to shove it down my throat.

Been of that mind for years. You can do what you want behind closed doors with another consenting adult; that is your right to privacy. You do not have the right, though, to flaunt it in my face or to demand that I accept it as normal; that is my right to privacy.

re: #222 MandyManners

Makes no sense to me. I'm not fond of LDS but, I cannot imagine holding that against a man/woman when it comes to political leadership. It's not like a Mormon president would force us to wear that under-wear thingy.

That would entail the whole country converting to Mormonism and then joining the ranks of Temple Mormons. I don't think that would happen.

re: #225 mama winger

Who hates Mormons?

Anti-Mormonism

re: #184 Walter L. Newton

What worries me is that we are being left open for a charasmatic demagog of some stripe using this rift to catapult them into the Presidency, and then trying to make themselves dictator in the name of putting down the other.

Oh, yeah, that pretty much is exactly what happened this time around with Obama. The jury is still out as to how far he'll be willing/able to push it.

re: #205 Cognito

You sure are acting like soup being nailed to the wall.

re: #188 Racer X

Poor T. Boone Pickins. His windfarm scheme is no longer cost effective.

Yeah, I was really worrying that prices would stay down.

He's just scared that his prediction several months ago on Glenn Beck's show (that oil prices will be at $150 per barrel) won't be fulfilled.

He loses if oil prices are low. Heh. Let him lose - he pitched his lot in with a different crowd.

re: #213 ciaospirit

Did anybody else think it was strange that BHO issued a brief written statement for Veteran's Day?

Did it go something like
" Um..uh, well as I said we locked my Gradfather in the attic for 6 months and umm, well we let him out, you know, for...um... the parade or whatever those bitter people were doing on 11/11." ?

re: #214 MandyManners

I'm beginning to look at homosexuality and religious beliefs the same way: do/think what you want in privacy/your heart but, don't try to shove it down my throat.

That's how I view the whole uproar over the Boy Scouts' not allowing openly gay leaders. I don't want heterosexual leaders discussing their sexual preferences with my sons either. I'm not sending them to scouts to learn about sex.

re: #240 Irish Rose

I don't hate Mormons, in part because they keep up their yards.

Liberals don't keep up their yards, ever.

Republicans can only keep up their yards by hiring illegal immigrants.

re: #240 Irish Rose

Anti-Mormonism

From your link:

...... makes a distinction between "personal animosity and intellectual dialogue".

I might suggest a more accurate description would be 'theological differences' which is not the same at all as hate.

re: #238 calcajun

Here here. Except I don't find it offensive if you want a Christmas Tree, or a Menorah or a Creche even at a public place.

I think the Pope said it best,"debate raging in some countries between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith".

I think Palin said that she didn't think it should be part of curriculum just debate.
I liked Mitt just never got the snake salesman that people pegged him as.

re: #210 Opinionated

It's our only hope.

A new mainstream center right party.

AS MUCH AS I MIGHT AGREE WITH A CENTER RIGHT PARTY OTHER THAN THE GOP the real effect if one were to do this would be to keep the donks in power.

re: #246 shiek al beif salami

And?

re: #246 shiek al beif salami

I don't hate Mormons, in part because they keep up their yards.

Liberals don't keep up their yards, ever.

Republicans can only keep up their yards by hiring illegal immigrants.

ROFL!

re: #225 mama winger
The "Religious Right"....
Mitt Romney's Evangelical Problem

Mormons were specifically excluded from participation in the National Day of Prayer organized by Shirley Dobson (wife of James Dobson, leader of the conservative Christian organization Focus on the Family) because their theology was found to be incompatible with Christian beliefs.

Mormons believe that they are the fully realized strain of Christianity--hence the "latter-day saints." They acknowledge extra-biblical works of scripture (such as the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants), follow a series of prophets who claim to have received divine revelations, and teach that God inhabits an actual physical body. This is all blasphemy to evangelicals; they argue that "the Bible explicitly warns against adding to or detracting from its teaching" and refer to the revelations as "realistic deception[s] by the Devil himself."

Evangelical Christians consider Mormonism a threat in a way that Catholicism and even Judaism are not. The LDS Church, they charge, has perverted Christian teachings to create a false religion. As John L. Smith, a Southern Baptist who runs Utah Mission--an organization that tries to convert Mormons--told Christianity Today: "Mormonism is either totally true or totally false. If it's true, every other religion in America is false." To be tolerant of Mormonism is to put evangelical Christianity at risk. And to put a Mormon in the White House would be to place a stamp of approval on that faith.

re: #95 jcm

Well put!

re: #251 cathypop

I mow my own damn grass.