Did the Obama Campaign Hold Secret Talks with Hamas?

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 10:27 am PST • Views: 333

P. David Hornik has a piece at Pajamas Media on the reports in Arab media that the Obama campaign held secret talks with Hamas and asked them not to reveal it: Reported Obama-Hamas Contacts Bode Ill.

In an interview published Tuesday in the London-based Al-Hayat, Dr. Ahmad Yousef, political adviser to Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, said senior Hamas figures had held a secret meeting with advisers to Barack Obama in Gaza before the U.S. elections.

Throughout his campaign Obama’s official line was that he would “only talk with Hamas if it renounces terrorism, recognizes Israel’s right to exist, and agrees to abide by past agreements.”

Yet Damascus-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal responded to Obama’s win on an optimistic note, telling Australia’s Sky News on Saturday that his organization was “ready for dialogue with President Obama and with the new American administration with an open mind.”

On Saturday night, though, Obama’s senior foreign policy coordinator Denis McDonough seemed to hold the fort, deflecting Mashaal’s amiability by reiterating Obama’s three-part formula for making Hamas acceptable.

For those who don’t want America to have dealings with an Islamist terror organization like Hamas, that may have sounded reassuring. But now it seems it may be too soon to feel reassured.

According to Yousef in the Al-Hayat interview, the Obama-Hamas talks were already ongoing during the U.S. election campaign: “We were in contact with a number of Obama’s aides through the Internet, and later met with some of them in Gaza, but they advised us not to reveal this information as it may influence the elections or become manipulated by McCain’s campaign.”

Given Obama’s associations with many anti-Israel extremists, we can’t dismiss this out of hand. But it might be wise to remember that terrorists have been known to lie occasionally.

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173 comments

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1 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:28:52am

Hamas are, after all, community organizers.

2 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:30:09am
3 The Other Les  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:30:20am

Terrorists are funny that way.

4 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:30:23am
But it might be wise to remember that terrorists have been known to lie occasionally.

occasionally?

5 noshariaincanada  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:30:41am

gee, who'd have thought that?

6 Kostya Lotz  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:30:51am

re: #2 Kostya Lotz

NutZ! missed it again!

7 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:31:29am

re: #2 Kostya Lotz

You mean [Deleted] don't you?

8 CIA Reject  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:31:30am

Every tin-pot dictator and terrorist in the world is grinning from ear to ear at the prospect of, once again, being able to manipulate the President of the United States.

The "good old days" of "Uncle Sap" are back.

Or so they believe...

9 LoFlyer  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:31:34am

Unfortunately we can only wait and see how this plays out. Lots of trial balloons being floated and everyone of them sound like bad ideas.

10 bosforus  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:32:15am

birds of a feather...

11 Jack Reacher  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:32:17am
...it may influence the elections or become manipulated by McCain’s campaign.


Obviously Yousef's understanding of America is flawed. The media would bury the story, and McCain would have considered the issue beneath the lofty goals he set for campaigning.

12 realwest  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:32:25am

Lying occasionally would be a relief from lying all the time.
I think this truly deserves either a 24 or 48 rule call.

13 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:32:28am

Boy- there's a tough call. Who's more likely to be lying, 0bama or hamas?

14 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:32:55am

Does "don't tell anyone about it" count as a precondition?

15 gegenkritik  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:33:02am

re: #1 Dar ul Harb
Yes, same way the NSDAP was.

16 So?  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:33:12am

Can you impeach a president-elect?

17 LoFlyer  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:33:40am

How ya doing Real? Just got back from a dental appt and having trouble talking...

18 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:34:05am

re: #6 Kostya Lotz

Firsties get deleted unless they're damned clever and fit in with the topic.

19 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:34:08am
20 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:34:21am

More sauce for the goose. This time a bunch of Islamic Jihad thugs died planting a bomb along the Gaza border with Israel. They responded by firing off a bunch of mortars into Israel.

These are the thugs with whom Israel has to live next to, and the same thugs who Obama is seemingly hoping to get into peace deal?

What could possibly go wrong? /

21 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:34:24am

re: #16 So?

Can you impeach a president-elect?

Does the Logan Act apply here?

22 Russkilitlover  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:34:38am

re: #12 realwest

Lying occasionally would be a relief from lying all the time.
I think this truly deserves either a 24 or 48 rule call.

Totally agree with you. If it is frowned upon to express concern about BHO and friends stated socialist agenda items, then it should also be frowned upon to take this as a truth when BHO has said over and over, basically, the current American position vis-a-vis Hamas.

23 Silhouette  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:34:45am
Throughout his campaign Obama’s official line was that he would “only talk with Hamas if it renounces terrorism, recognizes Israel’s right to exist, and agrees to abide by past agreements.”

"We will only talk to you if you renounce terror, recognize Israel, and abide by agreements."

"No."

"Oh, alright. We'll talk anyway."

Consorting with terrorists things aside, this easy caving of Obama's team to the other side doesn't bode well for all future international dealings.

Where's that "firm" diplomacy?

24 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:35:11am
25 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:35:35am

re: #15 gegenkritik

You mean [deleted] don't you?

/oh, wait.

26 father_of_10  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:35:48am

Q:
Did the Obama Campaign Hold Secret Talks with Hamas?

A:
Duh, Yeah.

27 red satellite  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:36:38am

Dhimmi Carter met with them. He's passing the baton now to Obama.

28 Russkilitlover  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:36:41am

re: #20 lawhawk

More sauce for the goose. This time a bunch of Islamic Jihad thugs died planting a bomb along the Gaza border with Israel. They responded by firing off a bunch of mortars into Israel.

These are the thugs with whom Israel has to live next to, and the same thugs who Obama is seemingly hoping to get into peace deal?

What could possibly go wrong? /

To be fair. The current administration has been doing their darndest to bring these thugs into a peace deal.

29 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:36:54am
30 LoFlyer  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:36:58am

re: #23 Silhouette

"We will only talk to you if you renounce terror, recognize Israel, and abide by agreements."

"No."

"Oh, alright. We'll talk anyway."

Consorting with terrorists things aside, this easy caving of Obama's team to the other side doesn't bode well for all future international dealings.

Where's that "firm" diplomacy?

Arr, mate let's see what happens with this and then we call them out on it!

31 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:04am

5 Ways to Stop Trolls From Killing the Internet.

I'm considering implementing the "karma" technique.

32 Opinionated  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:08am

Just don't tell me that the LA Times has a tape of the meeting.

33 turn  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:18am

I want to believe this is a Hamas lie but I'm not holding my breath that O will come out and categorically deny it either.

34 Sunlight  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:24am

I had this al hayat link last night and sent it to some lefty (Jewish) friends asking them whether Obama told them his staff was chatting with Hamas during any of the speeches, teleconferences, e-mails, etc. I think they won't want me around much longer. I'm sure they are just ignoring this stuff or thinking that it's really a Good Thing to talk to everyone.

35 realwest  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:27am

re: #17 LoFlyer Hey my friend - hope everything went ok at the dentists office (or as I usually call it, my home away from home).
Yeah, Bill Cosby once did a bit about going to the dentist that was so funny (back before all of MY dental
problems began) that I had to go to the bathroom!

36 So?  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:27am

Why don't we just call the "Death To America" hotline and find out the real truth.

37 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:37:44am

Robert Malley is one of the most often quoted commentators on U.S. Middle East policy and the Arab-Israeli conflict, thanks mostly to his time in the Clinton administration, where he served on the National Security Council as Director for Near East and South Asian Affairs, and also as Special Assistant to the President for Arab-Israeli Affairs. Malley served in these positions despite having no special expertise in Middle East questions – he is a Harvard-trained lawyer and later spent a few years at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar.

With the beginning of the Bush administration in 2001 Malley moved over to the policy and think tank world, continuing his involvement with Middle East issues. He was Senior Policy Advisor at the Center for Middle East Peace and Economic Cooperation, and is now with the Soros-funded International Crisis Group, where he serves as Middle East and North Africa Program Director. SNIP

He is perhaps most well known for a controversial series of articles in 2001 blaming Israel and exonerating Arafat for the failure of the Clinton peace efforts.

Malley has recently also been listed by the Washington Post as a Middle East advisor to Presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama, though others have disputed this.

While Robert Malley’s past history might seem typical for a bright young man pursuing a senior Middle East policy position in a future Democratic administration, digging a little deeper reveals something quite untypical in his past. Robert Malley grew up in France, where his Egyptian-born father, Simon Malley, and New York raised mother, Barbara (Silverstein) Malley, were radical publishers of a controversial magazine about Africa and the so-called Third World. Malley’s parents were rabidly anti-Israel and counted Yasir Arafat as a personal friend. Indeed, Arafat was among those “leaders” (for want of a better word) who intervened with the French government to readmit the Malley family to France after they had been expelled for their radical activities.

That is, while in the Clinton administration Malley dealt directly with Palestinian matters, and with Yasir Arafat himself, despite having a huge and hidden conflict of interest: close ties between his family and Yasir Arafat.

Well, hidden from the public – when questioned about it in 2001, Dennis Ross, Clinton’s senior Middle East adviser, said that the Clinton administration knew all about Malley’s past.

SNIP

But now, with Malley possibly a Middle East advisor to a major presidential candidate, it seems the full story should be exposed. I will try to minimize repetition of what others have recently published on this subject, while still laying out the facts in a coherent way.

SNIP

Hat-tip: Ben Hur.

38 So?  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:38:02am

re: #27 red satellite

Dhimmi Carter met with them. He's passing the baton now to Obama.

...and the mini-skirt.

39 subsailor68  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:38:27am

I'm confused hear. Why would the Obama people be holding talks with a tasty, middle eastern, chickpea-based dip?

40 turn  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:38:38am

re: #31 Charles


"an Asshole Apocalypse, if you will" Haha!

41 jamgarr  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:38:54am

re: #34 Sunlight

Check out my #707 two threads down

42 Sunlight  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:38:56am

Is there a law against a Senator or his staff holding meetings with organizations on the terrorist organization list?

43 HoosierHoops  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:39:03am

What's with all the deletes today? jeeezzz lizards..mellow out some.
( ok I missed the 60's but you get the Idea)
So Charles..Maybe Hamas has thier own Bagdad Bob..cause you are right..Terrorists seem to stretch the truth just a little.

44 subsailor68  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:39:27am

re: #39 subsailor68

PIMF: hear = here

Sigh.

45 saberry0530  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:39:42am

re: #39 subsailor68

I'm confused hear. Why would the Obama people be holding talks with a tasty, middle eastern, chickpea-based dip?

'Cause they ran out of Salsa?

46 So?  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:39:55am

Maybe he just wanted the recipe for Hamas Hummus.

47 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:01am

re: #42 Sunlight

Is there a law against a Senator or his staff holding meetings with organizations on the terrorist organization list?

The Logan Act?

48 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:12am

re: #37 MandyManners

Robert Malley is one of the most often quoted commentators on U.S. Middle East policy and the Arab-Israeli conflict, thanks mostly to his time in the Clinton administration, where he served on the National Security Council as Director for Near East and South Asian Affairs, and also as Special Assistant to the President for Arab-Israeli Affairs. Malley served in these positions despite having no special expertise in Middle East questions – he is a Harvard-trained lawyer and later spent a few years at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar.


Hat-tip: Ben Hur.

Charles Ryder has a video of Robert Malley (the Obama aide who may or may not be an Obama aide, depending on who you listen to), at the June 2007 American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee Conference in Washington DC, sharing the stage with radical anti-Israel academic Sarah Roy and Palestinian diplomat Alif Safieh: A Future Obama Advisor speaks at the ADC Conference.

There’s some interesting stuff here ... he seems to speak highly of Arafat at times, and is anxious for Fatah and Hamas to come together under a single program and work together. Near the end he speaks somewhat darkly of the reasons why Congress votes the way it does, viz.: “... for all the reasons, and we know the reasons ...”, and what a “solution” to the problem would be, viz.: “I think most of us in this room know what a solution would look like if there is going to be a viable and fair solution, we could get into the details, but I don’t think that’s a mystery anymore ...”

49 CIA Reject  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:29am

re: #39 subsailor68

I'm confused hear. Why would the Obama people be holding talks with a tasty, middle eastern, chickpea-based dip?

Hummus and waffles?

Yuck!

50 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:34am

re: #13 Sharmuta

Boy- there's a tough call. Who's more likely to be lying, 0bama or hamas?

I give up.

51 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:45am

More secret talks? Just when does the dude have time to do anything other than talk?

52 subsailor68  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:55am

re: #45 saberry0530

'Cause they ran out of Salsa?

LOL!

53 Sunlight  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:40:59am

re: #37 MandyManners

There's a video of Malley speaking. I watched it yesterday.

54 logboy  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:41:28am

Shhh... its an election surprise!

55 father_of_10  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:41:31am

Precedent has practically made it impossible to do anything with the Logan act, I would think. We should've thrown Carter in jail awhile ago. Even Sean Penn violated it, kinda. But, I would predict the Dems using it against a Republican.

56 subsailor68  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:42:13am

re: #49 CIA Reject

Hummus and waffles?

Yuck!

Heh, heh. But, hey, I once had fried chicken and waffles. Pretty tasty.

Now I'm on cholesterol meds.

57 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:42:13am

re: #31 Charles

5 Ways to Stop Trolls From Killing the Internet.

I'm considering implementing the "karma" technique.

But you'll have to convince users to issue more down-dings. I avoid them, unless the post is REALLY egregious. 1) I don't want someone to down-ding me back on an inoffensive post (it has happened); and 2) I don't get involved in flame wars. Only the worst of the worst are going to wind up with any negative karma. But maybe that's all you want to get flagged.

58 bosforus  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:42:46am

re: #31 Charles

5 Ways to Stop Trolls From Killing the Internet.

I'm considering implementing the "karma" technique.

Go for it. I'd love to see something like that. But perhaps consider removing outliers. I forgot a sarc tag a week or so back and last time I checked my comment was at about -40! I mean, I can get an upding or two every now and then but -40's kind of hard to come back from. :)

59 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:42:47am

re: #37 MandyManners

"I've hired you to help me start a war, its a long and glorious tradition"

60 realwest  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:43:04am

re: #42 Sunlight How about common human decency? We don't need a LAW for everything, you know?

61 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:43:05am

re: #53 Sunlight

There's a video of Malley speaking. I watched it yesterday.

I linked it in No. 48.

62 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:43:10am

Relax. He was only talking to the "political wing."

/

63 Jack Reacher  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:43:29am

re: #13 Sharmuta

Boy- there's a tough call. Who's more likely to be lying, 0bama or hamas?

That reminds me of Kissinger's comment re. the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s, "It's a shame they can't both lose."

64 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:43:41am

re: #57 Son of the Black Dog

But you'll have to convince users to issue more down-dings. I avoid them, unless the post is REALLY egregious. 1) I don't want someone to down-ding me back on an inoffensive post (it has happened); and 2) I don't get involved in flame wars. Only the worst of the worst are going to wind up with any negative karma. But maybe that's all you want to get flagged.

Sometimes there's blatant stuff people aren't dinging down.

65 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:43:56am

re: #59 Eowyn2

"I've hired you to help me start a war, its a long and glorious tradition"

I'm not catching the reference.

66 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:44:24am

re: #65 MandyManners

I believe it's the Princess Bride.

67 Kragar  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:44:42am

re: #65 MandyManners

I'm not catching the reference.

Princess Bride

68 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:44:44am

re: #13 Sharmuta

Boy- there's a tough call. Who's more likely to be lying, 0bama or hamas?

Lying is in the genes with Obama and Hamas, so it could be both to hide the fact they are actually telling the truth.

69 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:44:48am

re: #66 Sharmuta

I believe it's the Princess Bride.

Is that the one with a young Tom Cruise?

70 BIG  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:44:49am

It is my prediction that Hamas will be removed from the State Departments terror list by the end of April.

I also predict that Likud will be added to the State Departments terror list by June of 2010.

/bought my crystal ball at Walmart

71 snuffyword  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:02am

re: #66 Sharmuta

Inconceivable!

72 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:06am

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Princess Bride

Never had the pleasure.

73 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:24am

re: #69 MandyManners

NO! Oh, Mandy...

74 jamgarr  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:24am

re: #69 MandyManners

Is that the one with a young Tom Cruise?


You're thinking of Legend

75 Russkilitlover  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:48am

re: #72 MandyManners

Never had the pleasure.

Oh, my! Get thee to a video store and watch immediately!

76 Buck  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:54am

OT:
MSNBC Admits they got it wrong.

MSNBC's David Shuster very quickly admitted that "there may be some indications" the ("Sarah Palin doesn't know Africa is a continent") story was made up.

Looks like the whole thing was a hoax.

77 bosforus  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:45:58am

re: #57 Son of the Black Dog

Perhaps weighting the dings (uhh, that sounds funnier than it's meant to). Make negative dings "worth" more. Or perhaps show the user's rating relative to the average rating - though that could make someone feel bad just because they don't get dings but still contribute.

78 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:08am

I think there should be a distinction between "I did not like you comment - down ding" and "you are trolling - down ding".

My two cents.

79 gegenkritik  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:09am

re: #25 Dar ul Harb

You mean [deleted] don't you?

/oh, wait.

Yes. The simultaneity of anti-semitic madness and a community based on charity that forces the individual into the collective is obviously something that Nazi-Germany and jihadistic rackets have in common.

80 Kragar  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:16am

Of course the Obama had talks with Hamas. Politicians always make time for the big donors.

81 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:21am

The Princess Bride

It's a classic- fun for the whole family.

82 Izzy Dunne  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:31am

Transcript of secret meeting provided by New Yawk Times:


Help.
Is.
On.
The.
Way.

83 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:33am

re: #72 MandyManners

Never had the pleasure.

That is one pleasure denied, fer sure.

84 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:49am

re: #65 MandyManners

I'm not catching the reference.

The Princess Bride.

85 turn  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:49am

re: #31 Charles

I think that Karma would work well here at LGF.

Wouldn't it be simpler to oust anyone that gets three whacks from Mandy? /

86 Kragar  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:46:57am

re: #69 MandyManners

Is that the one with a young Tom Cruise?

No, I believe you're thinking of "Legend."

87 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:47:24am

re: #64 Sharmuta

Sometimes there's blatant stuff people aren't dinging down.

Maybe if it were encouraged, but under the present (informal) rules of the site, I'm only going to ding-down the annefrance type comments. (Did I remember correctly?)

88 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:47:29am

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

Lying is in the genes with Obama and Hamas, so it could be both to hide the fact they are actually telling the truth.

Iocane powder.

89 razorbacker  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:47:29am

re: #69 MandyManners

Is that the one with a young Tom Cruise?

Why slam Tom? He swears that he is not gay. NTTAWWT.

*Princess Bride, indeed. He at least would have had enough show biz sense to insist on being cast as the Handsome Prince*

90 Silhouette  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:47:29am

re: #76 Buck

OT:
MSNBC Admits they got it wrong.

MSNBC's David Shuster very quickly admitted that "there may be some indications" the ("Sarah Palin doesn't know Africa is a continent") story was made up.

Looks like the whole thing was a hoax.

Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?

91 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:47:38am

re: #72 MandyManners

Never had the pleasure.

It's a must-see for both you and The Kid. Infinitely quotable.

/As you wish.

92 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:48:31am

re: #89 razorbacker

Why slam Tom? He swears that he is not gay. NTTAWWT.

*Princess Bride, indeed. He at least would have had enough show biz sense to insist on being cast as the Handsome Prince*

LOL! Tom Cruise as Humperdink. LOL!

93 iceman1960  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:48:32am

Oh come on already! They were just some guys in the neighborhood.

94 jamgarr  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:48:37am

/He's only mostly dead.

95 Izzy Dunne  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:48:53am

he would “only talk with Hamas if it [...] agrees to abide by past agreements.”

Somebody help me out with this:
If they have a history of not abiding by their agreements (and they do)...
then their agreeing to abide by past agreements is worth...
.
.
.
Uhh...
.
.
WHAT, exactly?

96 Kragar  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:48:55am

re: #91 Honorary Yooper

It's a must-see for both you and The Kid. Infinitely quotable.

/As you wish.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my Father. Prepare to die."

97 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:05am

re: #90 Silhouette

Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?

Checking is for reporters, not journalists. MSNBC is just carrying on the grand tradition of the Rather method of Journalism.

98 snuffyword  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:26am

re: #90 Silhouette

Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?

Are you assuming that they are a legitimate news organization?

99 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:26am

re: #58 bosforus


how do i check my comments

100 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:33am

re: #88 Dar ul Harb

Iocane powder.

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia," but only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!"

101 MandyManners  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:39am

Dryer buzzer.bbiab

102 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:51am

re: #85 turn

I think that Karma would work well here at LGF.


My Karma's gonna stink.

103 Buck  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:49:54am

re: #90 Silhouette

Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?

This guy has fooled the media before. It is almost a sport to him.
Normally it is a bit like "candid camera", however in this case he had to expose himself. I mean he probably thought the whole thing would last a few hours, but when no one made any attempt to verify the joke started to get lost.

104 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:50:04am
105 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:50:16am

re: #65 MandyManners

Soros/Vincini

106 HoosierHoops  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:50:35am

re: #78 unreconstructed rebel

I think there should be a distinction between "I did not like you comment - down ding" and "you are trolling - down ding".

My two cents.

I was got down dinged by making a joke that if the grateful dead played outside of Denver during the convention that the moonbats would stay there instead of protesting..
Several lizards were very upset about me denagrating the Dead.
So next time I'll use Pearl jam as an example..
/ here it comes...running..dinging..stop it!

107 Sharmuta  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:50:56am

re: #87 Son of the Black Dog

Maybe if it were encouraged, but under the present (informal) rules of the site, I'm only going to ding-down the annefrance type comments. (Did I remember correctly?)

I guess I'm fairly liberal with my dings.

108 stanleymberg  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:05am

As much as part of me would love to say "I told you so" to my fellow Jews (family and friends) who voted for Obama en masse while insisting to me that he was really pro-Israel (even going to far as to display signs that read "Barack Obama" in Hebrew - I felt like saying "really, folks, you doth protest too much!"), I sincerely hope I am proven wrong and that Obama really will support Israel. But stories like this are not encouraging, to say the least, and Rahm Emanuel will only serve as a fig leaf for so long if stuff like this keeps surfacing (and if Chuck Hagel is named Sec. of Defense, for that matter).

109 father_of_10  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:06am

Karma seems best, even though people don't like to ding others down, it makes it so that only the most egregious people will get slammed, which is how it should be. Self policing is always best. The Lizard Army knows how to take care of itself.
[IMG][Link: i149.photobucket.com...]

110 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:11am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

My Karma's gonna stink.

Maybe your sock puppet could catch all the bad karma?

/friendly sarc

111 yesandno  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:29am

Is this Mally? In Syria speaking with Asshat prior to the election? Maybe met with Hamas as well on same trip? Went to Egypt as well...

I think there coud be some truth to all of this. Time will tell.

112 bosforus  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:40am

re: #99 Eowyn2

how do i check my comments

Be insecure like me and go back to the thread to check on 'em. :) But you bring up another good point, I'd also like to be able to just click something and see my recent comments.

113 father_of_10  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:44am

re: #72 MandyManners

Never had the pleasure.

It should be mandatory, my dear.

114 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:51:45am

re: #69 MandyManners

Is that the one with a young Tom Cruise?

Surely you jest?

115 razorbacker  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:52:02am

re: #90 Silhouette

Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?

That went out with fedoras and the little 'press' card.

Now ya just chuck it all agin the wall to see what sticks.

116 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:52:15am

re: #31 Charles

Hmm... a variation on the armed moderator technique might work too.

For all the trolls posting, moderators would be able to swap out the trollish language and replace it with the following:

"Yes, I'm a troll with gamy buttocks ripe for roasting."

117 alegrias  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:52:38am

Did we not all get the kumbaya memo on Nov. 4th?

Of course they did. Lying is not an impeachable offensefor Team D.

Samantha Powers will get her job back, though she did something unforgiveable like telling the truth about her candidate while overseas-- giving press conferences contrary to stated talking points--while an Obama advisor.

Remember Austan Goolsbee who whispered to the Canadians to never mind whatever his candidate said in public about unilaterally changing NAFTA?

118 OldDog  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:52:41am

According to the AP, Hamas is the only reliable source.

119 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:52:47am

re: #107 Sharmuta

I guess I'm fairly liberal with my dings.

Ding-dong Dolly!

120 wright1  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:53:06am

re: #90 Silhouette

Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?

You know I watched the Greta interview last night. And whiile Governor Palin seemed still generally positive, she seemed sad. Almost wounded. It is like a part of her was killed in the media feeding frenzy. She will be more guarded in her life I am sure. And while that may do her well, I feel that we lost who she once was and might have become. I hope she fr-fuels and comes back. But I am just so disgusted and angry over what was done to her.

121 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:53:32am

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my Father. Prepare to die."

Stop saying that.

122 Noam Chumpski  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:53:37am

Usually, a person lies to gain something.

Lying about Obama talking with them could cause Obama to have ill will towards Hamas because they would have made him look bad.

So, either Hamas is intentionally provoking Obama for a reason I do not know of, or they met with his people.

I don't hang with either Party, so I don't know which is true.

123 turn  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:53:47am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

My Karma's gonna stink.

You make a good point, the karma rating could become a reflection of one's viewpoint on creation vs evolution for instance. Charles really does a good job moderating this blog, I trust his judgment but it must be a terrible burden for him.

124 Sunlight  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:54:10am

re: #60 realwest

How about common human decency? We don't need a LAW for everything, you know?

Well, except the people I'm thinking of live in some parallel universe. And laws might stop them from selling Israel down the river (e.g., expecting them to sit forever under rocket fire, kidnappings, bus bombings, etc.).

125 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:54:15am

re: #116 lawhawk

Hmm... a variation on the armed moderator technique might work too.

For all the trolls posting, moderators would be able to swap out the trollish language and replace it with the following:

"Yes, I'm a troll with gamy buttocks ripe for roasting."

I like that better than deleting some of the bigger asshats.

126 stanleymberg  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:54:20am

"Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?"

Oh, YOU...you and your journalistic "standards".

Speaking of MSNBC, Olbermann told The View that he didn't vote so he could maintain his "objectivity." Worst Person in the World, indeed.

127 Stormy  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:55:13am

re: #31 Charles

I'm with 'ya there. As your site continues to grow we're going to see more and more threads start spinning out of control. I'd be sick to log in some day and see that LGF has devolved into a DU or KOS.

However, given your innovations with so many pieces of your blog engine, I'd like to see you develop an original twist on the karma idea. Man how I wish I could sit around developing blog software innovations all day long... I've got so many ideas, but so little time!

128 stanleymberg  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:55:28am

Sorry, here's the link:
[Link: www.portfolio.com...]

129 mattm  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:55:43am

I wouldn't doubt it.

130 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:57:04am

re: #72 MandyManners

Never had the pleasure.

The Princess Bride is one of the most bestest movies ever made.
Ranks with The Sandlot for GREAT family entertainment.

131 Eowyn2  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:57:44am

re: #125 Honorary Yooper

I like that better than deleting some of the bigger asshats.

maybe we need an 'asshat' rating?

132 Noam Chumpski  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:57:48am

re: #126 stanleymberg

"Aren't they supposed to check if it is real before they report it, not after?"

Oh, YOU...you and your journalistic "standards".

Speaking of MSNBC, Olbermann told The View that he didn't vote so he could maintain his "objectivity." Worst Person in the World, indeed.

He's just funny enough to think that somehow makes sense. He's probably really proud of himself.

133 realwest  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 10:58:41am

re: #76 Buck
Wish I could give you about a thousand up-dings for that one!
That this hateful, spiteful person DOES exist cannot be disputed: someone made up the identity and the name of Martin Eisenstadt , the website and all of the lies about Sarah Palin which, of course, the MSM ate up, without doing ANY investigating at all.
The shame of it is that, according to your link, some blogs bought into it too. Where was all that investigative talent the blogosphere was supposed to possess?

134 subsailor68  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:00:44am

re: #120 wright1

You know I watched the Greta interview last night. And whiile Governor Palin seemed still generally positive, she seemed sad. Almost wounded. It is like a part of her was killed in the media feeding frenzy. She will be more guarded in her life I am sure. And while that may do her well, I feel that we lost who she once was and might have become. I hope she fr-fuels and comes back. But I am just so disgusted and angry over what was done to her.

I see what you mean, but somehow I think she's made of sterner stuff. She may simply be sad to see how politics, the media, and the culture have degenerated. She'll be back.

135 Buck  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:02:52am

re: #133 realwest

Wish I could give you about a thousand up-dings for that one!
That this hateful, spiteful person DOES exist cannot be disputed: someone made up the identity and the name of Martin Eisenstadt , the website and all of the lies about Sarah Palin which, of course, the MSM ate up, without doing ANY investigating at all.
The shame of it is that, according to your link, some blogs bought into it too. Where was all that investigative talent the blogosphere was supposed to possess?

Thank you for your up-ding, I think I could use the Karma.

I hope Charles will make this a new thread.

136 looking closely  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:03:23am

re: #19 taxfreekiller

OT
sorry, but
a caller to Rush just nailed it.

We suppressed our own R conservative vote he said.
He said that the Rush, Colter etal and such as the Huckabees caused
a suppression of the R vote and that caused the defeat. Rush was very defense and knew he was called out on it.

The guy was correct, we did ourselves in, Obama did not win we chose to lose.

later

Is there evidence that supports this speculation?

I see a natural shift that occurred after 8 years of administration by a ridiculously unpopular POTUS during a time of nearly unprecedented economic stress.

I don't see how Rush plays into this. As to Coulter. . .does ANYONE really take her seriously enough to consider voting based on what she says?

137 logboy  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:05:43am

"Rodents of unusual size? I don't think the exist."

138 realwest  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:06:00am

re: #135 Buck
Yeah, I think it's thread worthy, too.

139 Age Of Freedom  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:06:15am

Terrorists have been known to lie 'occasionally'?

140 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:06:46am

re: #87 Son of the Black Dog

The down ding record holder iirc

141 realwest  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:06:50am

Well all y'all it's been grand as usual, but I gotta go eat some lunch now.
Hope you all have a GREAT DAY and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

142 logboy  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:07:05am

"You seem a decent fellw. I hate to kill you."
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die."

143 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:09:15am

re: #140 Bubblehead II

The down ding record holder iirc

Yes. annefrance got something in the range of -500 for that comment. Everybody and his sockpuppet(s) dinged that one down.

144 mama winger  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:09:41am

Rush is talking about this story right now.

145 SagamoreGal  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:10:10am

Israel still has 69 days to decide if She wants to survive an Obama presidency.

146 Outrider  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:11:03am

re: #31 Charles

5 Ways to Stop Trolls From Killing the Internet.

I'm considering implementing the "karma" technique.

I always get a kick when articles such as that one bring up comments like this one:

It really scares me how many people want to censor the internet. The internet is the most beautiful show of true humanity in this world.

Then you just know this guy is one of the trolls. You have to wonder why he/she doesn't get their own blog site where they can indeed run totally uncensored. And they can fork out the $$$ to do so.

147 Mr. Sandman  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:13:35am

Certainly would make no sense whatsoever to hold "secret talks and meetings" with Hamas in the midst of the campaign, and against his stated policy with respect to Hamas. No way any campaign would take such an overwhelming risk to blow the election like that. Perhaps Hamas was meeting with Malley and other folks of his ilk who were presenting themselves as speaking on "behalf" of Obama but in truth representing themselves only. I'm sure we'll see in the coming weeks Obama appoint pro-Israel cabinet members, and the Rahm Emmanuel appointment as Chief of Staff is a signal that he is not going to have some sort of radical, anti-Israel policy.

148 Outrider  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:15:12am
Given Obama’s associations with many anti-Israel extremists, we can’t dismiss this out of hand. But it might be wise to remember that terrorists have been known to lie occasionally.


True. But, Obama is the one that conducted talks behind the administrations backs with the leadership of Iraq to stall any further talks until after the election. So, it's not like he doesn't have a track record of this type of behavior.

149 Outrider  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:15:50am

re: #143 Honorary Yooper

Yes. annefrance got something in the range of -500 for that comment. Everybody and his sockpuppet(s) dinged that one down.

That was impressive by anyones standards. ;-)>

150 Land Shark  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:16:49am

Charles said:
"Given Obama’s associations with many anti-Israel extremists, we can’t dismiss this out of hand. But it might be wise to remember that terrorists have been known to lie occasionally."

Very wise words, Charles. While I am inclined to believe them, as it fits Obama's "modus operandi", these people lie as a matter of policy. We need to confirm and verify before reaching any conclusions. But I must confess I'm inclined to think it's true. Time will tell.

151 RememberSekhmet?  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:17:24am

I had a terrible, awful thought.

What if the ball drops for Iran somewhere close to Jan 20? That way, if Hussein the Twit tries to run in and get Israel to back off, they will feel much less compunction in telling him to suck it off, while Israel cleans house.


Tell me I'm wrong.

152 pbird  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:18:45am

re: #69 MandyManners

Is that the one with a young Tom Cruise?

G-d no!

153 alegrias  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:21:02am

re: #136 looking closely

* * *
Ann Coulter has the courage of her convictions, which is more than you can say for tons of "unnamed" leakers and other self-important cowards.

I would want her standing with me in any fight.

154 Rancher  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:26:47am

Don't remember these kind of lies being said about Bush.

155 SummerSong  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:32:55am

Haha! Who just said Obama farts perfume? Funny.

His wife says he's stanky. I believe her.

156 SummerSong  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:34:06am

It feels like the Fed just dumped some cash into the market.

I didn't look to see if they did, just my spidey sense acting up.

157 Ben Hur  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:42:08am

It was just a meeting between community organizers.

158 Sacred Plants  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:43:24am

re: #31 Charles

Speaking of karma, does the Lizard Army proliferate blog engines to allied forces?

159 Opinionated  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 11:43:31am

You know who needs to talk to Hamas, and Israel, and the New York Times, and others, the folks at Merriam-Webster's and other dictionaries.

Four Hamas gunmen were killed in a clash with Israeli soldiers along the Gaza border on Wednesday, further testing a shaky truce that took effect last June.

The military said in a statement that its forces identified a group of gunmen attempting to place an explosive device near the border fence, leading to an exchange of fire. Four of the gunmen were hit and an Israeli soldier was lightly wounded, the statement said.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

We really need to get a definition of TRUCE and CEASE FIRE. And do truce and cease fire have a totally opposite meaning if you add the word "shaky"?

160 dhawken  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 12:53:43pm

This is probably what Biden was talking about with the "test" and how we're not going to agree with them...

161 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 1:17:08pm

Hopefully Sen. Obama will learn that Hamas and Ilk operate under "CHICAGO RULES" - however incompetently - and act accordingly.

-S-

162 Ron Shaw  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 1:48:08pm

Our PE demonstrates propensities to deviate from the truth as well as gravitate towards domestic and foreign ilk who love to blow some innocent peoples, places and things up! At any rate, some horrible propensities for a US President ruling from the 'on-deck' circle.

163 jaybird  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 1:52:03pm

I think one thing we are going to see is where Rahm Emanuel's loyalties lie.

164 [deleted]  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 1:54:30pm
165 winston06  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 1:55:19pm
Did the Obama Campaign Hold Secret Talks with Hamas?

IMO, it doesn't matter at this point. He got away with all these negative baggage he had and now he is the US liar in chief. I hope he doesn't screw America any further.

166 freeus  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 2:03:42pm

Call me crazy, but those Hamas phone banks for Obama pretty much sealed the deal with me on Hamas being for THE ONE. Add in all those Middle East donations and I think we have a winner here folks!

I believe there is no reason for anyone to hide their intent, or love for THE ONE anymore. Ayers and Dorhn along with Screwy Farrakhan and Oprah are out and freely loving on THE ONE. Why should Hamas and Hezbollah not join in on the joy and "free at last" feeling running up their legs? Why lie now?

On this matter and at this time, I tend to believe the terrorist. But then again I really thought the American people would not vote for Obama and McCain might win despite his Yosemite Sam self!

167 Lynn B.  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 2:33:30pm

But look on the potential bright side. If Hamas is lying, imagine how pissed off Barry might get. He could have a Bill Clinton moment (after he realized Arafat robbed him of his NPP). He could have a GW Bush moment (post Karine A). Only more so.

Never underestimate the power of a supersized ego.

168 Kaymad  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 2:42:04pm

I haven't read through the comments so I don't know if this has been suggested, but they have a very good reason for lying. It would be a great way to demoralize Israel and make them distrust the Obama administration from the start.

169 democast  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 2:50:27pm

If you thought Condi has been setting-up Israel for an upcoming, indefensible conquest from all sides, below (Iranian subs) (and within)...

What happens when Israel ultimately balks at Obama, Brezinski, Malley, Power, pro-Palistan Rahm's demands for 'painful concessions'?

What will be the blowback against Jewish citizens in the Diaspora (i.e., outside Israel)?

Britain & Europe have shown record-levels of public enmity, hostility, and violence towards neighbors of Jewish identity when the news coverage starts to depict Israel as:

1) the oppressor/rejecter/obstacle to justice / sovereignty for the Palestinian people- resulting in;

2) being perceived as the instigator of terrorism locally &

3) the cause of American civilian terror casualties by Palestinian sympathizers, and

4) the blame for the Mid-East instability-caused, expensive gas prices;

5) the blame for the the Iraq War for Israel, resulting in suffering and spillage of American soldiers' blood; and

6) Americans' having to burden the financial cost, economic crisis, and higher taxes.

Where will the good Jewish citizens of North America turn when the Political Correctness threshold for resentment towards Jewish people gets crossed? When hostile manifestations meet with no social barrier or self-defensive Jewish recourse?

When job discrimination leads to harrassment (and even assaults) on them, their property, and their children (increasingly prevalent in Europe during the past few years- I've seen it with my own eyes, followed by the lack of recourse from the employed Jewish leadership)? Where will they turn when experiencing a climate too humiliating for proud North Americans - abandoned, even reviled by their fellow countrymen?

What refuge will materialistic North American Jews find? Will they choose to flee their motherland to an impoverished, handcuffed, and Islamic-nuclear-terror challenged Israel - extorted into a Mexican-Standoff with apocalyptic Iran and the known Islamist-sympathist who (they denyed incriminating evidence about him) to voted 3:1 to elect to lead the world - against their own interests?

The election proves that readers of sites like LGF (and DemoCast, and Joo-Tube) have to get these messages out more broadly. Bring in more readers & subscribers. Send emails to others who need convincing.

Would you please take (and promote to others) a free, email subscription to Joo-Tube and DemoCast? Your votes in the Weblog Awards (Best VideoBlog) will also enhance the credibility of our message. Thank you.

170 right_in_canada  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 3:27:50pm

re: #69 MandyManners


Nope . It was Cary Elwes, you may remember him from Saw (I)

171 Gitarzan  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 3:35:53pm

re: #31 Charles

5 Ways to Stop Trolls From Killing the Internet.

I'm considering implementing the "karma" technique.

I'm liking the idea of disenvowelment myself...along with karma and Lao Stinky, that would make some headway against the s**thead trolls and mobys.

172 LEGION  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 3:53:36pm

Well, the majority of the registered voters (supposedly) spoke- we shall reap what these dickheads have sown. We will fight them, but my spirit has sustained a heavy blow. I wish they could suffer without taking us along for the ride, but that is not to be. Head for the hills, Katie- bar the door.

173 poopeedoo  Wed, Nov 12, 2008 6:50:53pm

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Princess Bride

Great movie. Asss Youuu Wishhh... ;)


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