Big bus, has to be to get a whole country under it.

Rahm's father is going to be pissed.

I truly hope that nobody is surprised by this.

Especially all of the Jewish voters in Florida.

Great, can Obama get his Nobel Peace Prize now? Making him wait a whole year is racist.

Gaza was the test case for this. Israel pulled out and the rocket attacks continue daily.

Will Israel play along?

No matter. They will still want it all.

Let's see if the Israelis (i.e., the gov't) still have the guts to tell Obambi to stuff it.

Subtext to the message....

Wars of aggression and terrorism work.

"Peace with the Muslim World is at hand."

Barack Obama

Obama.... Selling Israel out at the earliest opportunity....

Israel deserves better than this. But then, so do we in the US.

Simon Malley's smiling from his grave as he works his evil deeds through his son, Robert.

Obama should get the Noble Pees Prize for this one.

This isn't as funny as Britain's pre-war joke.

Most recent cease fire was what 72 hours?

"I saw Hillary kissing Suha Arafat!"

Bwahahah. They're Baaaa---aaaack!

Remember, terrorist Arafat was the most frequent repeat guest to the Lincoln Bedroom during the Clinton Years.

A lot of terrorist islamist acts that love fest prevented, during Al Qaeda's 8 years of growth & prosperity, 1993-2000.

The only thing the zero knows is to give up, doesn't matter what it is, just give it up.

re: #7 Racer X

No matter. They will still want it all.

Bingo

Wow... this is incredible.

Happy now, liberal Jews? He's just getting warmed up.

re: #16 Rancher

Most recent cease fire was what 72 hours?

Just long enough for the Palestinians to build some more Kazzam rockets...

re: #2 loppyd

Rahm's father is going to be pissed.

Rahm was never really Queen Esther

And Israel will continue to look like the bad guy for not agreeing to this. Sad.

Not build Acquire :P

The arabs have already demonstrated both in 1948 and again in 1967 that they can't seem to handle the responsibility of having land like the Golan that gives them a better vantage-point to shell israel.

Khalidi wanted this.
Guess who's giving it.

re: #17 alegrias

You do mean peck on the cheek, not carpet munching, right?

re: #17 alegrias

And 0bama's thinking of having hillary be Sec of State! Won't that be lovely?

So basically, it's ok to attack Israel and lose badly, but with a little bit of patience, you'll gain back what you lost?

Maybe Obama will change his mind on this too - he's certainly flip-flopped on several other issues over the course of the past several months. Especially since he won the election.

But Israel should not rely on any support from the US government after 1/21/09. I don't think they'll receive any.

Intafada 2009. I 've got t-shirts and thongs ready to roll.

re: #32 ploome hineni

hope this shocks the Israelis into reality

Amen

re: #31 x-wing

Intafada 2009. I 've got t-shirts and thongs ready to roll.

Be sure to add 0-3 to them!

What's 0bama going to do if Israel doesn't play by his rules?

re: #32 ploome hineni

hope this shocks the Israelis into reality

And that they demand a responsible PM.

Well put, Charles.

So the Israelis have to offer concessions and in return their adversaries offer what? I guess I missed that one.

...and with this "proposal," which Israel surely will not accept, they can now be blamed as being an "obstacle" to the peace process.

...and there you have it. History gets re-written in a matter of minutes.

re: #35 Sharmuta

What's 0bama going to do if Israel doesn't play by his rules?

He'll ask his mirror on the wall who's the smartest of them all?

re: #12 rawmuse

Israel deserves better than this. But then, so do we in the US.

Do we? I don't believe that most of the people who voted for Obama would have done so if they really knew anything about him. But the very fact that they were too lazy to do their research means that they deserve what they get.

I just wish the rest of us didn't have to suffer along with them.

Just like Israel is being made out as the bad guy for reclosing the borders and stopping the food shipments after the last little cease fire was broken by Kassam's falling as a wake up call.

re: #6 loppyd

Will Israel play along?

They have elections coming up. We'll see.

Hey, American Jews that voted for the Obamanation!

You knew he was going to screw you on things (you were only told a gazillion times, how could you not know?), and you still voted for him.

Do I sound unsympathetic?  Is no one listening to your screams of outrage and hurt?  Farkin' a!  Now we're all screwed and you could have helped avoid this!

}:)     [Throwing hands in the air and walking away.]

re: #43 Killgore Trout

They have elections coming up. We'll see.

Elections or no elections,

Even Olmert wouldn't go for this.

And remember 0bama called this a constant sore- here's his solution to that. To take the saudi plan.

*spit*

re: #43 Killgore Trout

They have elections coming up. We'll see.

Y'don't suppose this might affect the elections, do yah?
heh heh heh

Didn't something like 76 per cent of the Americans in Israel vote for McCain/Palin?

...there’s always the possibility that the Palestinian side (whoever that is; Fatah? Hamas?) will manage to screw it up, either by making the “right of return” a deal-breaker or by committing some heinous act of mass murder.
The arab world in general ratcheted down their bloodlust just enough to get their candidate elected. They can probably hold off a little longer, considering the closeness of the prize.

re: #43 Killgore Trout

They have elections coming up. We'll see.

Who is running? I was always partial to BiBi.

1967 borders? As Sarah Palin would say, "There you go again, Joe, looking backwards".

At the last minute, we the Arabs/Palis reject the deal and start up a new intifada Obama will say.........

re: #35 Sharmuta

What's 0bama going to do if Israel doesn't play by his rules?

It'll confuse the heck out of him, since no one else has ever really stood up to him and succeeded. That's why Israel's going to need Bibi Netanyahu, or someone of his caliber, at the helm these next four years.

Good morning Charles! I dibs some heinous act of mass murder.
Safe bet when dealing with Hamas/Fatah.

And, I asked this on the DT, since Iran seems so intent on the OIC helping out the Palistinians - how come none, NONE of the OIC states have offered the Pali's a place to live within their own borders? Especially Egypy and Jordan who threw the Pali's out in the first place?!
Hey Obama - there's your Peace Plan.

This is just the first step on the road to peace, anti-Israel style.

re: #48 MandyManners

Didn't something like 76 per cent of the Americans in Israel vote for McCain/Palin?

What the Hell were the other 24 percent thinking?

re: #42 Rancher

Just like Israel is being made out as the bad guy for reclosing the borders and stopping the food shipments after the last little cease fire was broken by Kassam's falling as a wake up call.

Israel should have expelled all the Palestinians long ago, let their Muslim neighbors prove Islams benevolence by feeding, clothing and caring for their Arab brothers.

re: #48 MandyManners

Didn't something like 76 per cent of the Americans in Israel vote for McCain/Palin?

How about here? Do you know?

This is not good.
Thought he was all about NOT meddling in foreign affairs?
No point of center there, at all.

"...peace with the Muslim world"

What a tool. He spent 20 years courting NOI types to gain "street cred". He knows damn well the last thing the "Muslim world" is interested in is "peace" with Israel.

it would be “crazy” for Israel to refuse accept a deal that could “give them peace with the Muslim world” nothing in return for condoning everything the Muslim countries have done to them so far.

fixed that for him.

re: #45 astronmr20

Israeli leadership has been getting progressively weaker for quite some time. I don't follow Israeli politics much but I expect the trend to continue.

Just for the record, the Saudi plan includes UN Resolution 194 from 1948, also known as the 'right of return.'

Someone needs to read nenkama's troll hammer to this douchebag.

I do wish it were as easy as squashing a troll. Alas, now the most celebrated figure of our present-day time in the world is about to propose a plan for the destruction of Israel. The world will drool and follow.

Add this to the list of attacks against democracy Obama has committed even before his inauguration.

Can you impeach a president-elect or do we have to wait until after he gets sworn in?

Hmmmm, seems Obama has a "solution" in mind for the "Israel problem". Who will be the "Kapo's" this time?

re: #48 MandyManners
Yeah, but here it was almost the exact reverse; iirc, American Jews voted for Obama by about 70%.

re: #29 ploome hineni

he is under the buss

/lotsof 'pissed' ppl there

How much of a self-hating Joo do you have to be,to live in Israel and be convicted of smuggling arms to the Palis'?

re: #56 The Other Les

What the Hell were the other 24 percent thinking?

That CBBHO's unicorns would fart peace?

re: #63 Carl in Jerusalem

Just for the record, the Saudi plan includes UN Resolution 194 from 1948, also known as the 'right of return.'

Yes, but under this shiny NEW plan, Israel gets "veto power" over that part of the Saudi plan.

Hopefully, Netanyahu will be elected in April. I don't think Livni and Obama will get anywhere before then.

It would be fun to watch Obama try to negotiate with Bibi.

re: #52 jcm

At the last minute, we the Arabs/Palis reject the deal and start up a new intifada Obama will say.........

It's all Israel's fault.... For even daring to exist....

re: #58 J.D.

How about here? Do you know?

I don't have the numbers but, I read here that the majority voted for CBBHO.

re: #70 Charles

Yes, but under this shiny NEW plan, Israel gets "veto power" over that part of the Saudi plan.

How big of the O.

Oh, I'm SURE giving up half of Jerusalem and all their best defensible postions will convince Israel's enemies to stop attacking.

/s
/s
/s
/s

re: #58 J.D.

How about here? Do you know?

about 47% McCain

re: #73 MandyManners

I don't have the numbers but, I read here that the majority voted for CBBHO.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

re: #65 Crusty

Add this to the list of attacks against democracy Obama has committed even before his inauguration.

Can you impeach a president-elect or do we have to wait until after he gets sworn in?

He's not broken any laws.

re: #63 Carl in Jerusalem
Hey Carl - good to "see" you again! You were once kind enough to try to explain Israeli politics to me and I confessed that I didn't understand it - the politics, not your explanation!
What do you think the Israeli people are gonna say to Obama? (crosses fingers and prays it's "Fuck You").

re: #67 realwest

Yeah, but here it was almost the exact reverse; iirc, American Jews voted for Obama by about 70%.

That high?!

So if Mrs. Clinton becomes Secretary of State, what will Bill do?

International Horndog Goodwill Ambassador?

Israel doesn't need the wake up call its American citizens of Jewish decent who need the wake up. What I hope Israel is doing right now is locking and loading. Gotta love the fact that it appears Obama is going to throw our staunchest ally in the middle east to a bunch of rabid mangy wolves who want nothing more than to see both the little Satan next door(Israel) and the Great Satan(US0 go down.

re: #76 legalpad

about 47% McCain

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm...................

bad idea. it won't be enough for the moslem world.
they can not be satisfied unless they have it all.

re: #81 rwmofo

So if Mrs. Clinton becomes Secretary of State, what will Bill do?

International Horndog Goodwill Ambassador?

While Hillary's away, the dog will play.

re: #70 Charles

Yes, but under this shiny NEW plan, Israel gets "veto power" over that part of the Saudi plan.

So even if the plan is accepted by all involved Israel gets smeared with being evil and unfair by not unconditionally accepting ALL of the Saudi plan. Peace at all costs is the peace of the grave.

re: #70 Charles

Yes, but under this shiny NEW plan, Israel gets "veto power" over that part of the Saudi plan.

Charles,

Other than Mahnaimi's article (and we already know that Mahnaimi is an hysterical leftist loon with an agenda), where have you seen that the Saudi plan gives Israel a veto over the right of return?

re: #81 rwmofo

So if Mrs. Clinton becomes Secretary of State, what will Bill do?

International Horndog Goodwill Ambassador?

He'll be home baking cookies.

re: #71 Pastorius

Hopefully, Netanyahu will be elected in April. I don't think Livni and Obama will get anywhere before then.

It would be fun to watch Obama try to negotiate with Bibi.

Much faster than that. Elections are February 10.

re: #88 J.D.

He'll be home baking cookies.

With his new BFF Bill Ayers.....

re: #58 J.D.
Hey {J.D.} I read the day after Election day that it was more like 30 % of American Jews who voted McCain/Palin.

re: #89 Carl in Jerusalem

How's the election looking so far?

So, they go back to the original borders that the Arab world wasn't happy with and was the reason they attacked the Israelis to begin with. Right? Am I missing something? What happens when that isn't enough? What happens when Israelis are still researching cures for disease and getting Nobel prizes while the Palestinians are still living in squaler while their leaders get fat off of the charity of other countries? How long of a reprieve will that get them before they start blaming the joos again because all they know is how to build rockets and can't sustain their own country? Does Obama even have any pro-Irsrael advisers to balance out his thinking?

re: #23 Sharmuta

And Israel will continue to look like the bad guy for not agreeing to this. Sad.

Well, not to some folks (like me)

I decided I'm going about things all wrong. You know the whole "success" idea.

Start a war, get my ass kicked, put my cousins in "refugee camps." Get everything back.

Start a business, fall on my ass lose billions, get it all back.

Success is overrated.

re: #83 J.D.

talking about all Americans, not just Jews - election data

re: #43 Killgore Trout

They have elections coming up. We'll see.

This shit didn't happen when Bibi was calling the shots.

/it's time for the hammer to drop once and for all.

re: #54 realwest

Good morning Charles! I dibs some heinous act of mass murder.
Safe bet when dealing with Hamas/Fatah.

And, I asked this on the DT, since Iran seems so intent on the OIC helping out the Palistinians - how come none, NONE of the OIC states have offered the Pali's a place to live within their own borders? Especially Egypy and Jordan who threw the Pali's out in the first place?!
Hey Obama - there's your Peace Plan.

I understand that most Arabic states don't even like the Palestinians. They support them not because they are pro-Palestine so much as they are anti-Israel, anti-Jew, etc. The Koran is pretty strict about what to do with non-believers living on "Holy Land."

Strict, as in, drive them out or kill them.

re: #91 realwest

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....................

What was it they liked about him, I wonder?

re: #93 ryukyu

Balance is not for one such as the Messiah.

re: #84 nyc redneck

bad idea. it won't be enough for the moslem world.
they can not be satisfied unless they have it all.

complete submission in all things.

If Israel were to agree to a deal where the Palestinians got all of Israel, and Israel got the Alaskan peninsula stretching toward the Aleutians, the Palestinians would reject it because they'd want the "right of return" to the Aleutians thrown in.

bbl

re: #65 Crusty

Add this to the list of attacks against democracy Obama has committed even before his inauguration.

Can you impeach a president-elect or do we have to wait until after he gets sworn in?

I would rather have Joe Biden as Pres at this point.

"Don't stop,
thinking about the Clinton Years,
They'll be here, better than before,
Bush is gone,
Bush is gooooo--ooonn
Oooooo,
Let's look bacckkk!

The "Welcome, Jihadists" sign is back on the White House door. Also, the "Kick Me" sign is back.

re: #58 J.D.

How about here? Do you know?

76% of the Americans in Israel voted for McCain - Palin.

78% of America's Jews voted for Hussein - Biden.

re: #98 Crusty

Strict, as in, drive them out or and kill them.

re: #90 doriangrey

...like some little man standin' by his womman...

re: #95 jcm

I decided I'm going about things all wrong. You know the whole "success" idea.

Start a war, get my ass kicked, put my cousins in "refugee camps." Get everything back.

Start a business, fall on my ass lose billions, get it all back.

Success is overrated.

You're actually on to something there. Tax dollars have funded far more ludicrous programs.

"Developing America's energy resources is a matter of our national security", said Sarah Palin.

POTUS Bush played footsies with the Saudis because we need oil, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Obama would play footsies with them even if we didn't.

re: #80 MandyManners
Yep, it was higher for Obama than it has traditionally been for Dems.
Go figure, cause I sure as hell don't get it.

BTW - wonder if the LA Times still has that videotape (assuming, of course, that they ever did have it)?

re: #80 MandyManners

That high?!

Yup.

It's no surprise. It would take a nuclear bomb (literally) to dislodge American jews from the ass of the democrats.

re: #79 realwest

Hey Carl - good to "see" you again! You were once kind enough to try to explain Israeli politics to me and I confessed that I didn't understand it - the politics, not your explanation!
What do you think the Israeli people are gonna say to Obama? (crosses fingers and prays it's "Fuck You").

That depends whom Israel elects in February. The Americans in Israel lean far more to the right than the overall Israeli general public (largely because most of the Americans in Israel are Orthodox Jews).

re: #105 BBEV

I would rather have Joe Biden as Pres at this point.

I'd rather have either of the Clintons.

And I can't believe I just said that.

89 Carl in Jerusalem,
So the people of Israel will speak in Feb.

I guess Obama's best strategy would be not to tip his hand until after the election, in hopes that the Israelis will elect a waffle for him to finish.

It seems to me that Israel is pretty much condemned to trying out these - in all likelihood doomed - efforts to acheive peace in the hope that one day the jihadists will run out of steam. There doesn't seem to be any other options available.

bubba's Sec. of State ran after arafat. I can only imagine what hill would do in that position.

re: #105 BBEV

I would rather have Joe Biden as Pres at this point.

Even Hillary would be a hope of change in not bringing total destruction.

re: #96 legalpad

talking about all Americans, not just Jews - election data

Amazing, isn't it?

re: #89 Carl in Jerusalem

Much faster than that. Elections are February 10.

Hello Carl! Greetings from SNOB.

Does BiBi have a chance?

re: #92 Sharmuta

How's the election looking so far?

I'm sitting in Boston so I may not be quite so up-to-date.

But I believe that the Likud is going to win.

re: #35 Sharmuta

What's 0bama going to do if Israel doesn't play by his rules?

My guess, he'll broker a deal with the mad mullahs for the US to defend Iran against any pre-emptive attack by Israel, in return for an agreement by Iran to halt production of weapons-grade Uranium.

re: #99 J.D.
I guess the same thing some 62 million + other Americans liked about him. You know "hope" and "Change" - which is why he's using almost exclusively "beltway boys" from the CLinton/Carter years.
Some Change.
And no Hope.

lostlakehiker
11/16/08 9:26:26 am reply quote
1
If Israel were to agree to a deal where the Palestinians got all of Israel, and Israel got the Alaskan peninsula stretching toward the Aleutians, the Palestinians would reject it because they'd want the "right of return" to the Aleutians thrown in.

Our world would be in much better shape if they realized how true this statement is.

since this plan has already been rejected, why bother? Perhaps Mr Obama should talk to Israel before announcing grandiose plans. Those are called 'preconditions', Mr Obama. Practice the word. It will save you lots of air fare and carbon credits.

re: #118 Sharmuta

bubba's Sec. of State ran after arafat. I can only imagine what hill would do in that position.

* * *
Wasn't that Warren Christopher, a retread from the Carter Years of Surrender to Sickos?

re: #102 reine.de.tout

complete submission in all things.

it is so disheartening to see israel contemplate whittling away it's country in a deal w/ barbarians who will not keep their word. and everyone involved knows this.
fck this plan.

re: #107 Carl in Jerusalem

I think "astounding" is too mild...

Do liberal Jews really care about Israel?

Just wondering?

re: #120 J.D.

Amazing, isn't it?

The Republicans have been cultivating this for a long time.

re: #82 Rancher

Israel doesn't need the wake up call its American citizens of Jewish decent who need the wake up.

This continues to boggle my mind. Is it that American Jews feel that they have absolutely nothing in common with Israeli Jews that they keep supporting anti-Israeli politicians? Do they view them as a whole other community, people, etc?

re: #127 alegrias

Maddie Albright.

re: #101 ploome hineni

who was convicted?

You mean Rahms dad wasn't? Is this sorta like the Bill Ayers thing?

/I thought dad was convicted?

re: #124 realwest

Some Change.
And no Hope.

Clearly!
It's going to be a long 4 years.

re: #115 loppyd

I'd rather have either of the Clintons.

And I can't believe I just said that.

I agree, what is wrong with us? I never thought I would be thinking like this.

The more we change the more we remain the same... oh well

It's impossible, let me tell you why.

Say there was "peace" between Israel and its neighbors. Open borders! Do you really think Israel would ever have open borders with Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Hizboolah dominated Lebanon? Israeli embassies in Riyadh and Cairo? Elimination of Arab boycott of Israel - Saudi and Iraqi oil to Israel, pipeline through to Haifa? Hey how about this one - use of Saudi air bases for Israel to stage and attack Iran? Actually, that last one, is probably the strongest reason why the Saudis might want to try to make the rest of the stuff happen. Oy, what a region!

Hamas and Fatah will not accept any agreement that allows Israel to exist. If Obama tries to bully Israel into a worse agreement, expect protests in the streets.

I Reject Islam and Love Israel

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

by "X-Muslim"

re: #119 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even Hillary would be a hope of change in not bringing total destruction.

yup

re: #127 alegrias

* * *
Wasn't that Warren Christopher, a retread from the Carter Years of Surrender to Sickos?

No, it was Madelyn Albright who ran after Arafat.

re: #124 realwest
PIMF: 66,000,000+ Americans voted for Obama.

re: #137 BBEV

I agree, what is wrong with us? I never thought I would be thinking like this.

We are realists.

No cycling for me today. The air is just horrible around here from all the fires.

re: #87 Carl in Jerusalem

Charles,

Other than Mahnaimi's article (and we already know that Mahnaimi is an hysterical leftist loon with an agenda), where have you seen that the Saudi plan gives Israel a veto over the right of return?

Well, Newsmax reported it too:

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

They're not the most credible source either. Guess we'll have to see what actually gets put on the table, next year.

re: #132 Crusty

This continues to boggle my mind. Is it that American Jews feel that they have absolutely nothing in common with Israeli Jews that they keep supporting anti-Israeli politicians? Do they view them as a whole other community, people, etc?

Remember, the current leaders in Israel, and nearly half their population, support this as well.

re: #133 Sharmuta

Maddie Albright.

* * *
Thank you, Sharmuta. Just so you know, Madame Secretary is still cutting edge in the Obama transition team--

Madeleine Albright was here in Washington DC this weekend as Obama's representative to the 20 country meeting President Bush held.

Everybody sing: Don't stop remembering the Clinton Years, they're better than before....

re: #131 legalpad

The Republicans have been cultivating this for a long time.

More so than the Democrats?

re: #117 Jimmah

The Jihadis will NEVER run out of steam. Or suicide bombers.

Can someone explain to me what's so magical about the 1967 borders? As far as I can tell, the 1967 borders, like all the others, are just where the lines happened to be drawn when another war ended. The only thing special about the 1967 borders it that they were the ones in which Israel had the least amount of territory, right?

re: #105 BBEV

I would rather have Joe Biden as Pres at this point.

Maybe Joe can pull that same trick he and France used to drive Hezbollah out of Lebanon like he said in the VP debates.

/rolls eyes

re: #133 Sharmuta

Maddie Albright Dimwit.

re: #142 Pastorius

I Reject Islam and Love Israel

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

by "X-Muslim"

From the article:

The whole world should realize that Islam is at war with all nations on the planet. In our Muslim societies it is not "the extremists", but the whole society infected with this hatred. It is in the mosques, the schools, in the media and in the homes of nearly every Muslim family. It isn't just Israel they hate, but America and Christians as well. Islam hates all other religions.

Why indeed is this not known and recognized? It's been made perfectly clear to us.

He isn't even in office yet and I'm waking up in a cold sweat. Israel is toast.

re: #140 ploome hineni

Bibi didn;t do squat last time

why do you assume he will be different now?

He didn't have to. He let the Palis' know what would happen and they pussed out.

re: #146 loppyd

We are realists.

I would say keep calling your Congress men etal but here in New Hampshire it has gone totally moonbat just like Maschusetts, I use to be able to call John Sununu and talk with his now I have Jean Shithean , why bother even calling at this point.

Nice joke.

I wonder what his real plan is...

... wait, he's serious? Even funnier.

140 Ploome

THE ELECTION OF BIBI MIGHT THWART BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA'S PLAN, THOUGH:
Opposition leader Binyamin Netanyahu pledged on Sunday to continue talks with the Palestinians if elected prime minister, saying he would base such talks on economic development.

Speaking at the Jewish Agency's General Assembly, Netanyahu said a government under his leadership would work to boost the Palestinian economy as a springboard for - and alongside - diplomatic talks.

"We need to make peace from the bottom up, rather than the top down, by improving the lives of Palestinians so that they have a stake in peace," he said.

The Likud leader called on the government to lower taxes and invest in transportation infrastructure, such as roads and railroads, to avoid a further economic slide.

Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat, meanwhile, said Netanyahu's approach would destroy peacemaking because the US-sponsored talks that began last year are designed to achieve a treaty on all outstanding issues between Israel and the Palestinians.

"The time to speak about economics and fragmentation is over," Erekat fumed. "It seems to me that if Mr. Netanyahu thinks this is the course, he is closing the door to any chance for peace."
MORE FROM BIBI:
Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat on Sunday accused opposition leader and Likud Chairman Benjamin Netanyahu of "closing the door to any chance for peace," by insisting that regional talks focus on economic, rather than territorial issues. Netanyahu says he supports the concept of a separate Palestinian state, but opposes the current U.S.-sponsored peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians. He takes a hard line against ceding war-won territory and opposes partitioning Jerusalem, key Palestinian demands, and thinks talks should focus on economic matters.

re: #132 Crusty

This continues to boggle my mind. Is it that American Jews feel that they have absolutely nothing in common with Israeli Jews that they keep supporting anti-Israeli politicians? Do they view them as a whole other community, people, etc?

Yes. Their liberal peer pressure and social status is more important than Israel.

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be “crazy” for Israel to refuse a deal that could “give them peace with the Muslim world”, according to a senior Obama adviser.

The peace of the grave.

The 1967 borders deal is old hat.

The Arabs are still shamed and stinging from the tremendous ass-kicking Israel handed them in '67, and they see this as a way to reverse that.

More to the point, this is a suicide deal for Israel. If Israel reverts to the pre-67 borders, its territory will be militarily indefensible.

One only hopes that Israel's leaders aren't so stupid as to fall for this nonsense.

re: #153 Crusty

Maybe Joe can pull that same trick he and France used to drive Hezbollah out of Lebanon like he said in the VP debates.

/rolls eyes

Ya I know, but the devil him self I think would be better then Obama at least the devil lets you make your own mistakes.

re: #114 Carl in Jerusalem
Hey Carl, I understand "The Americans in Israel lean far more to the right than the overall Israeli general public" but I have a VERY HARD TIME thinking that Israeli's will go along with this or any similar bullshit plan.
Do you really think Israeli's will elect someone who will?

So let me get this straight. Obama and the Saudis are going to give every Israeli a shovel and let them dig their own graves? I'm not Jewish, but I fail to see what Israel gets out of this deal except a 'peace' that's likely to last about 2 weeks. And they're getting hoorahs for this?
oy

withdrawal to pre-1967 borders

Um, I don't think so. They're indefensible.

/friend of Israel my ass

These are our leaders. They are imbeciles.

re: #147 Charles

I could send you our 8 continuous hours of rain to clear air. Pineapple express on its way.

Back later. Have a great day!

re: #152 Last Mohican

Can someone explain to me what's so magical about the 1967 borders? As far as I can tell, the 1967 borders, like all the others, are just where the lines happened to be drawn when another war ended. The only thing special about the 1967 borders it that they were the ones in which Israel had the least amount of territory, right?

It's not that.

The land was used to stage attacks against Israel. Real "military-style" shit, mortars, etc. Especially the Golan, from where Syria was happy to shell Israeli civilians.

Since the Arab world wanted war and picked a fight and Israel won, they have been crying that mean 'ole Israel has stolen their ball and won't give it back, ever since.

A majority of the world actually believes the "poor 'ole Arab" version.

It's like I'm living in bizzaro-world.

I know hard core capitalist Zionists who voted for Obama. Incredible.

re: #168 NYCHardhat

These are our leaders. They are imbeciles.

and some know know exactly what they are doing.

re: #160 Pastorius

Sounds like Saeb Erekat has a vested interest in a top-down solution. My intuition is saying, "don't trust that bastard".

re: #152 Last Mohican
The post '67 war gave Israel her largest borders by far.
The fact that Israel took this land during a war, started by something like 5 or 6 Arab states against Israel, is absurd.
Name one other instance in history where the victor of a war (and a war that was started by the losers) has been obliged to return that land?!?

re: #160 Pastorius

Saeb Erekat, translated: We want to keep Palestinians poor so they will have a reason to continue hating Israel! We don't want workable solutions; we want Israel punished and we want them OUT OF JERUSALEM.

It's not like this is a big surprise.
One of the most damning quotes from Obama that gets the least attention...

I will stand with Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

Lets just hope Benji gets back in as leader ..with a strong majority.

re: #150 J.D.

More so than the Democrats?

Well, I consider Democrats a constant. But they couldn't have done it without Republican compromise. Republicans are the only ones who have potential for doing the right thing.

Nobody should actually be surprised that BHO supports this plan.
He "palled" around with Palestinian Terrorist enablers in Hyde Park.
I know that people are not generally one issue voters, but it bothers me that Obama carried the Jewish vote.
I am aware that there is a historical linkage to the Democrat Party, but still.....

re: #172 ploome hineni

Saudi peace plan

Exactly, Ploome, and I believe that this is how Obama intends to play it, once Israel rejects (and it will, no matter who is in power) this rediculous, revisionist, and dangerous plan.

It will be "blame Israel time" all over again.

It does get a bit infuriating at times.

[Link: english.sina.com...]

Looks like, come January, Israel is fresh out of friends.

/it didn't take a psychic to see that Obama was going to switch sides

re: #151 NelsFree

Do you think this conflict will go on forever then?

re: #179 Infidel_One

It's not like this is a big surprise.
One of the most damning quotes from Obama that gets the least attention...

I will stand with Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

Lets just hope Benji gets back in as leader ..with a strong majority.

Actually, he didn't say exactly that. It's a re-wording from one of his books; see here, at the bottom of the page. (Even so, the idea is roughly the same.)

Anyone with even a passing knowledge of the Middle East is either laughing or crying. I prefer to get drunk. But that's just me. Ah remember those good old days before 1967 when there was peace all over the Middle East?

God will take care of and preserve Israel no matter what her foes do.
By the way God gives humans talents (like being able to shoot a rifle well).

re: #183 ploome hineni

bIBI says

arabs/muslim are terrorized by Islam

the islamic world CANNOT TOLERATE a Jewish state

Nor can they tolerate anything other than complete submission to Islam, everywhere.

...so would Florida's Jews have voted for the 0 if he stood up there at AIPAC and started talking about returning to pre-1967 borders?

re: #164 BBEV

Ya I know, but the devil him self I think would be better then Obama at least the devil lets you make your own mistakes.

I know what you mean. It's funny how, as much as I depise Bill Clinton, he didn't do as many f'd up things in 8 years as president as Obama has already said and done in his pre-inauguration stage.

re: #152 Last Mohican

Can someone explain to me what's so magical about the 1967 borders? As far as I can tell, the 1967 borders, like all the others, are just where the lines happened to be drawn when another war ended. The only thing special about the 1967 borders it that they were the ones in which Israel had the least amount of territory, right?

The 1948 borders were much worse. It just might seem, from the Arab perspective, like the 1967 borders are half-way between the 1948 borders and the 1974 borders - except that Israel has already given back the Sinai, and neither does Egypt want to take back Gaza nor does Jordan want to own the West Bank and all the Palestinians in either case.

Israel has paid for the current borders, in blood. Tell you what, peace now, Israel returns the land, after peace has lasted 100 years. Why would the Arabs ever turn that down?

/ha

re: #191 astronmr20

...so would Florida's Jews have voted for the 0 if he stood up there at AIPAC and started talking about returning to pre-1967 borders?

I doubt more than 10%, if that, could actually point out the pre 1967 borders on a map. Lets get real here!

re: #187 Fat Jolly Penguin

May be a rewording...but it means the same thing.

I wonder if this is Obama's concession to his terrorists friends. A mere opener. Then he will go more conventional and realistic.

re: #176 realwest

The post '67 war gave Israel her largest borders by far.
The fact that Israel took this land during a war, started by something like 5 or 6 Arab states against Israel, is absurd.
Name one other instance in history where the victor of a war (and a war that was started by the losers) has been obliged to return that land?!?

* * *
The Vietnam War! We never really lost a battle, right? Liberals made us turn over the land to the Totalitarian Gulag People, and let them make killing fields of Cambodia.

Same deal. Leftists want us to appease murderers & surrender good people to the totalitarians.

The biggest problem with this deal is that once Israel hands over the land, there is nothing preventing all the Arab countries from reneging on their end.

On a visit to the Middle East last July, the president-elect said privately it would be “crazy” for Israel to refuse a deal that could “give them peace with the Muslim world”, according to a senior Obama adviser.

"Could" being the operative word here.
So far, the Palestinians haven't lived up to anything they've agreed to.
Why should this deal be any different?

re: #191 astronmr20

...so would Florida's Jews have voted for the 0 if he stood up there at AIPAC and started talking about returning to pre-1967 borders?

Sadly, yes, they're Democrats.

I don't like Obama any more than you guys do, but let's not really put all the blame for the resurrection of this peace initiative on him and his team. Israeli leaders revived the issue for serious consideration last month ([Link: www.signonsandiego.com...] That's not really a surprise because it seems that Israel acts against its own interests as much as or more than it acts in favor of them. I've been wondering for the longest time if Israel is just determined to destroy itself.

re: #176 realwest

The post '67 war gave Israel her largest borders by far.
The fact that Israel took this land during a war, started by something like 5 or 6 Arab states against Israel, is absurd.
Name one other instance in history where the victor of a war (and a war that was started by the losers) has been obliged to return that land?!?

I can name two. The US and the Allies gave back the Japanese and the Germans after WWII. But that is not the point.

The point is that Israel was attacked by people who want to anhilate her and she continues to live under the threat of anhilation. The increased borders makes it easier to defend herself against aggressors.

re: #196 pat

I wonder if this is Obama's concession to his terrorists friends. A mere opener. Then he will go more conventional and realistic.

When you start with the 67 borders as your opening offer there is only one way to go and that is towards the Mediterranean? Get my drift?

re: #200 mcmeador

Let's just say Israel is perennially in a tough spot, and it's hard for anyone to know the best road forward.

re: #180 legalpad

Well, I consider Democrats a constant. But they couldn't have done it without Republican compromise. Republicans are the only ones who have potential for doing the right thing.

At one time even the Dems had a sense of doing the right thing; their current outlook is a recent innovation.

re: #197 alegrias

* * *
The Vietnam War! We never really lost a battle, right? Liberals made us turn over the land to the Totalitarian Gulag People, and let them make killing fields of Cambodia.

Same deal. Leftists want us to appease murderers & surrender good people to the totalitarians.

[The Other Les will now do his impression of Fred Thompson.]

"What you have to understand about the Left is...they're stupid."

[Thank you, Les.]

re: #190 reine.de.tout

Saw the cookbook update on the Overnight Thread. Thanks.

re: #174 nyc redneck

I'm at a loss. I don't know what to say anymore. Anyway, how are you redneck?

re: #191 astronmr20
Unfortunately I have to say yes, they would STILL have voted for Obama and NO I have no idea why.

re: #201 shanec99
Good point. The difference is that Germany and Japan didn't come back and attack again 6 months later- Not even 60 years later. Different people.

re: #203 itellu3times

Let's just say Israel is perennially in a tough spot, and it's hard for anyone to know the best road forward.

Well except everything we have heard from the Obama camp is either old news or bad news. So far they are STARTING with Israel withdrawing to the 67 borders and also giving up it's nuclear option.

re: #201 shanec99

I can name two. The US and the Allies gave back the Japanese and the Germans after WWII. But that is not the point.

The point is that Israel was attacked by people who want to anhilate her and she continues to live under the threat of anhilation. The increased borders makes it easier to defend herself against aggressors.

True, but in both cases you cite, the population and it's military were ground into complete submission; utterly laid to waste, and politically, psychologically, and physically broken.

Unfortunately, that's the only way to end a war sometimes.

re: #189 shanec99

God will take care of and preserve Israel no matter what her foes do.
By the way God gives humans talents (like being able to shoot a rifle well).

... and like being able to fly F-16s.

re: #203 itellu3times

Let's just say Israel is perennially in a tough spot, and it's hard for anyone to know the best road forward.

If your neighbor kept trying to kill you and your family and you had the means to eliminate that threat, what would you do? Tough spot? I know what I would do.

re: #118 Sharmuta

bubba's Sec. of State ran after arafat. I can only imagine what hill would do in that position.

Didn't she kiss Suha?

re: #208 realwest

Unfortunately I have to say yes, they would STILL have voted for Obama and NO I have no idea why.

Hi friend,

How are you feeling?

re: #216 MandyManners

Didn't she kiss Suha?

Yes

recognition of Israel by the Arab world in exchange for its withdrawal to pre-1967 borders

/yeah recognition, recognition that Israel is that much closer to destruction, from the river to the sea!

OT:

Tsunami Warning Issued in Indonesia Following 7.5-Magnitude Earthquake

foxnews

God looking at the election map above and the right to work map from previous thread they match up fairly well against each other sad i live on the little blue island which is nm/colorado on both : (

re: #203 itellu3times

Let's just say Israel is perennially in a tough spot, and it's hard for anyone to know the best road forward.

... we might not know the best road forward, but we do know the road to avoid. And I don't' want Obama driving.

re: #210 leboaz

Good point. The difference is that Germany and Japan didn't come back and attack again 6 months later- Not even 60 years later. Different people.

And Japan was so traumatized, they haven't been meeting their common-sense international security obligations since. They're useless as presently constituted. (pun intentional)

re: #220 Killian Bundy

/yeah recognition, recognition that Israel is that much closer to destruction, from the river to the sea!

Well put. Very well put!

re: #185 Killian Bundy
Well I'm afraid you're right, but with one Caveat: there are some 58,000,000 Americans who voted against Obama and all his money and all of the MSM in his pocket. I for one, and I surely hope MILLIONS of other Americans will do battle with Obama on Israel's behalf.
I sincerely doubt that out of the 66 million votes Obama received, many of them were for or indifferent to the destruction of the State of Israel.

re: #217 ploome hineni

I did not

have a link?

Here -- the cookbook web site

re: #211 Nevergiveup

Well except everything we have heard from the Obama camp is either old news or bad news. So far they are STARTING with Israel withdrawing to the 67 borders and also giving up it's nuclear option.

I was responding to the question of whether Israel was trying to destroy themselves.

Whether Obama and his slimeball advisors want Israel destroyed, is another question.

I suppose a very open-minded person might ask whether the Saudis are even sincere about their own peace offer. Just saying, no reasonable person sees any clear answers to this stuff, all roads are hard.

re: #179 Infidel_One

It's not like this is a big surprise.
One of the most damning quotes from Obama that gets the least attention...

I will stand with Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

Lets just hope Benji gets back in as leader ..with a strong majority.

Obama hid a lot, but on the other hand in his slip ups and past staements & writings , he signaled his intentions.
He is all in with the Muslims & anti-Israeal. It was always right in front of us, but jewish voters & others simply ignored who this man is & voted him in. I do not want to hear, "But I didn'[t know."

re: #221 pink freud

Can we start to blame 0 for this or is this still Bush's fault?

re: #215 VegasRick

If your neighbor kept trying to kill you and your family and you had the means to eliminate that threat, what would you do? Tough spot? I know what I would do.

Israel does not have the means to destroy the entire Arab world.

re: #226 realwest

Well I'm afraid you're right, but with one Caveat: there are some 58,000,000 Americans who voted against Obama and all his money and all of the MSM in his pocket. I for one, and I surely hope MILLIONS of other Americans will do battle with Obama on Israel's behalf.
I sincerely doubt that out of the 66 million votes Obama received, many of them were for or indifferent to the destruction of the State of Israel.

The problem is many of them have no real idea of the problems Israel faces. They have no idea of the history of the area. They often cano not differantiate the truth from lies.

re: #230 NYCHardhat

Can we start to blame 0 for this or is this still Bush's fault?

Just this once, my vote goes to the 0.

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Gaza was the test case for this. Israel pulled out and the rocket attacks continue daily.

Ding ding ding ding ding! Yes, this peace plan is nonsense and the Likud would never agree to it anyway. On the issue of Israel, Obama is grotesquely clueless (and incompetent).

re: #220 Killian Bundy

/yeah recognition, recognition that Israel is that much closer to destruction, from the river to the sea!

How about recognition by the Arabs that Israel has very significant reasons to fear for its survival?

I'm serious about this land for peace deal, with a 100-year turnover.

The UN has forever after been regretting their mistake to vote affirmatively for the 1947 partition of Palestine, and The O will be implementor of that correction.

I was hoping to give Obama a chance to prove that he wasn't a typical anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian lefty hack.

That didn't take long.

re: #207 NYCHardhat

I'm at a loss. I don't know what to say anymore. Anyway, how are you redneck?

sittin' pretty today.
in spite of it all.
damn it.
and you?

re: #231 itellu3times
Memo to the Arab world. Israel has allies. Or used to.

re: #213 markx

... and like being able to fly F-16s.

God helps those who help themselves.

re: #210 leboaz

Good point. The difference is that Germany and Japan didn't come back and attack again 6 months later- Not even 60 years later. Different people.

* * *
DIfferent, INDUSTRIOUS, people. Willing to use American Mr. Demming's system to modernize & become self-sufficient again.

I'm still waiting for the 7th century totalitarians to recognize the need to work to live, instead of Hope & CHange Inshallah.

re: #231 itellu3times

Israel does not have the means to destroy the entire Arab world.

No insult intended but you sound like a defeatist, I prefer to fight to the death rather than submit to it.

I actually had to sit down and read all of "6 days of war" before I completely understood the situation and the history.

Went to public school, and a university. Had no idea.

I can't expect the rest of America to understand any of it, until it's too late.

re: #197 alegrias
Hello my friend - well, please see my # 226.
Vietnam was completely different in that most Americans (even those who supported the war) had some doubts about the need for S.Vietnam as an ally.
Yes the Leftists will indeed try to implement that stupid plan, but it's up to us (AND FRANKLY THE ISRAELI'S) to fight this.

re: #234 eclectic infidel

Ding ding ding ding ding! Yes, this peace plan is nonsense and the Likud would never agree to it anyway. On the issue of Israel, Obama is grotesquely clueless Muslim (and incompetent).

Fix'd that for ya....

re: #241 alegrias
dingdingdingding

re: #216 MandyManners

Didn't she kiss Suha?

* * *
Hillary definitely kissed Suha. But Madame Secretary also kissed many frogs like Arafat & Kim Jong Il or Il Jong Kim--that's what diplomacy means.

re: #237 FrogMarch

I was hoping to give Obama a chance to prove that he wasn't a typical anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian lefty hack.

That didn't take long.

really makes you wonder what's to come.

re: #231 itellu3times

Israel does not have the means to destroy the entire Arab world.

Well actually they probably do have the means to cripple much of it, but that is hardly the point anyway.

re: #238 nyc redneck

Just waiting patiently for the surreal to end. Good otherwise.

I don't know why people say Israel wouldn't go for this. This is a plan supported by Livni.

January 21 starts the time for us to call our congressmen both on the state and federal levels. They rely on us for their jobs and since they will have a smaller population base to please than Obama does they are far easier to convince to do the right thing. If not its our job as citizens of this great nation to replace them in 2010 with representatives who will listen to the people. The American govt acts on behalf of the people by the will of the people, it doesn't rule over the people and its time these bastards in congress learn it.
Rustler

re: #235 itellu3times

How about recognition by the Arabs that Israel has very significant reasons to fear for its survival?

I'm serious about this land for peace deal, with a 100-year turnover.

/Hamas and Iran, at a minimum, don't care about peace deals

re: #210 leboaz

Agreed... after WWII the US did not remain in a state of hostility with former adversaries.

After 67, the entire Arab world (with exceptions) was hostile to Israel, and some of them even to this day are committed to Israel's destruction and the slaughter of every Jew.

The state of Israel must survive.

I'm meeting Eric Cantor next week. I might have to bring this up.

re: #253 Killian Bundy

/Hamas and Iran, at a minimum, don't care about peace deals

Throw hezbellah in there also while your at it?

re: #251 shai

I don't know why people say Israel wouldn't go for this. This is a plan supported by Livni.

People say this because they have trouble believing Israel could be willfully suicidal.

Begin: Past governments failed to account risks for Oslo, disengagement

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Gee, were has he been, vacationing in Bali?

re: #242 VegasRick

No insult intended but you sound like a defeatist, I prefer to fight to the death rather than submit to it.

Israel does not have the luxury of playing word games. You pretended they had a choice about eliminating the threat. They do not. Who's the defeatist here?

re: #252 Rancher

I wonder if they will give us the cold shoulder like that Columbia chap who told us to get lost about the LA Times video. What was his name again?

Let's hope like hell this is a trial balloon that will pop like some others floated.

re: #165 realwest

Hey Carl, I understand "The Americans in Israel lean far more to the right than the overall Israeli general public" but I have a VERY HARD TIME thinking that Israeli's will go along with this or any similar bullshit plan.
Do you really think Israeli's will elect someone who will?

They might.

Americans in Israel aren't exactly representative of the country as a whole (unfortunately).

re: #224 pre-Boomer Marine brat

And Japan was so traumatized, they haven't been meeting their common-sense international security obligations since. They're useless as presently constituted. (pun intentional)

* * *
And German soldiers according to Friday's WashPost are FAT, smokers, and out of SHAPE, receiving & quaffing millions of gallons of beer in Afghanistan while serving combat support Schnickerdoodles to the other Coalition troops who do the work of fighting the Taliban.

re: #253 Killian Bundy

/Hamas and Iran, at a minimum, don't care about peace deals

and I rather suspect that would keep resetting the 100 year clock.

re: #130 Osama Bin Asshat

Do liberal Jews really care about Israel?

Just wondering?

They do. The ones I hang with do. It was a tough decision for many of them: Obama or more of the GOP in office. I think that in the end though, most if not all knew that regardless of who took office, Israel is quite capable of taking care of itself.

re: #259 itellu3times

Israel does not have the luxury of playing word games. You pretended they had a choice about eliminating the threat. They do not. Who's the defeatist here?

Really?

And i truly think Israel does have the firepower to wipe out the Arab world however genocide isn't really the proper answer to the question. Strategically destroying infrastructure and such sure but wiping out the entire race no.

re: #209 ploome hineni

:D

Europe has problems with a JEwish state also

lol

how I lothe these aeuropeans

but I do like their shoes, cuisine and cars

Ma chere, we have us some good cookin' here!