I guess the markets don't think much of "The One"

Meanwhile, aboard the U.S.S. DOW . . .

/dive, dive!

Buying stock in Vaseline...

...But soon Chairman Obama is going to give us all free stuff!

More information about the Financial Market Watch

Time for everyone to start a backyard farm like the English did in WWII.

This post had me humming the song "We'll Meet Again" a la Dr. Strangelove.

Why bother watching? We have Congress doing it for us.

S&P500 has lost more than 50% since its peak in December. Pretty remarkable.

re: #6 Crusty

I've been doing that for years. On a good year I can grow about 30-40% of my own food.

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

That was my theory with WaMu. Didn't work out so well.

REPOST

Now we need an LGF Karma Ticker app. Watch your Karma in real time.
Maybe a thread index so we know which threads are volatile if we are feeling speculative.

I'm not even looking at my limited investments today....pretty sure they are more limited.

Obama might be wishing he'd stayed a senator.

gonna be a rocky 4 years. He looks old already compared to when he was elected to the senate.

2012 he's gonna look like the Crypt Keeper

Hope!

Change!

re: #10 Glaucon

S&P500 has lost more than 50% since its peak in December. Pretty remarkable.

Have been having myself a magnificent time as a "shorty"...

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

As a rule I stay away from financial stocks. I just think they're too risky even when the economy is doing well.

Sympathies for anyone hoping to retire soon or otherwise affected.
Myself I have two companies bidding on my employment right now, kind of nice (and needed).

re: #1 oronpam

I guess the markets don't think much of "The One"

/well gee, with Janet Napolitano as Secretary of Homeland Security, what could possibly go wrong?

re: #12 Nuclear Ninja

That was my theory with WaMu. Didn't work out so well.

Steel!
I was up as much as 30%...down a bit more than that now.

I can't believe that everyone is missing the point of this thread. I mean, we have been talking about this for months...

Oops, wrong thread...

Standard and Poors

Just poors

re: #6 Crusty

Time for everyone to start a backyard farm like the English did in WWII.

We had victory gardens during both world wars.

I wonder if in this day and age a "real time" stock market is such a good idea. It's no longer clear how much of this is real and how much of it is panic.

re: #3 Capitalist Tool

Buying stock in Vaseline...

KY or astroglide. Vaseline is contra-indicated.

Thank God Obama is going to pay my mortgage.

re: #20 Killian Bundy

But she can see Mexico from her house/

re: #18 Killgore Trout

As a rule I stay away from financial stocks. I just think they're too risky even when the economy is doing well.

and aero stocks...

I get to watch this all day long. I also get to listen to my boss scream, unless he bets against the market. We have recovered from these drops before, I just hope this one stops dropping.

Wasn't this the goal of the terrorists?

My oldest brother and I are facing multiple layoffs both being in construction related business- my middle brother is suffering from "less snacks" and an ugly stock portfolio with his job at google.

This is definitely an interesting time to be starting a career.

Need to buy a plot of land and a Yurt so me, the new husband, my parents, and our newly purchased gun have a place to stay when The One works his magic...

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

I can't believe that everyone is missing the point of this thread. I mean, we have been talking about this for months...

Oops, wrong thread...

You can have a self-depricating humor up-ding.

re: #15 buzzsawmonkey

Why, yes; yes, it would.

While sitting at my desk, with TWO computers, I'm watching live feed from the Space Shuttle, reading comments on LGF from around the world, working on a graphics program creating engineering documents at an incredible speed compared to 10 years ago..........and yet, I stand at the brink of financial ruin through no fault of my own.

What a world!

DEMOCRATS LIED!
MY 401K DIED!

This too shall pass.

Good thing we fixed all this by passing that $700 billion bailout.

re: #26 Dianna

KY or astroglide. Vaseline is contra-indicated.

But as a petroleum product, it is probably dirt cheap!

re: #36 mich-again

This too shall pass.

like a large kidney stone

re: #31 legalpad

Wasn't this the goal of the terrorists?

Except it is hurting all over. . .

re: #25 angst

I wonder if in this day and age a "real time" stock market is such a good idea. It's no longer clear how much of this is real and how much of it is panic.

It has always been that way. (There is a delay, if you don't want the delay you have to pay a premium)

We know the score but remember that most people are associating this with Bush and will continue to do so, probably well into Lord Acorn's regime.

re: #31 legalpad

Wasn't this the goal of the terrorists?

So far Congress and the rest of the Federal Government is doing a much better job at destroying the US than al Qaeda ever dreamt of doing.

re: #29 Capitalist Tool

Boeing has been pretty good to me in the past.

Change!

/...it's all that will be left in your 401K.

re: #39 shug

like a large kidney stone

Or a 10 pound baby. . .

re: #26 Dianna

KY or astroglide. Vaseline is contra-indicated.

I'll take your word for it...

re: #39 shug

like a large kidney stone

But think of the relief when it's over!

re: #40 DisturbedEma

Except it is hurting all over. . .

They should have thought of that -

re: #43 Salem

We know the score but remember that most people are associating this with Bush and will continue to do so, probably well into Lord Acorn's regime.

But, when they start playing the "raise taxes for the USA" song. . .and it will happen. . .those hands out for the promised moprtgage and gas money will turn to fists. . .

re: #31 legalpad

Wasn't this the goal of the terrorists?

why do you think they donated and supported one of the candidates in particular?

re: #41 DoubleU

It has always been that way. (There is a delay, if you don't want the delay you have to pay a premium)

No, I mean like way back in the good old days.
Like when it took hours or days for bad news to filter out and be processed and then show up in the stock market.

I just keep telling myself that retirement is overrated anyway

re: #48 Capitalist Tool

I'll take your word for it...

You don't have to. It's on every jar of Vasiline.

re: #51 legalpad

They should have thought of that -

Well, evil capitalism, even the diluted kind, is used to getting bit by those it feeds. . .this time it is just biting back. . .

re: #30 DoubleU

We have recovered from these drops before, I just hope this one stops dropping.

/boy, you know, as of today, we have officially broken every technical support level known to mankind, "it's a bottomless pit, baby, two-and-a-half miles straight down"

I think we have found George Bush's legacy. The President who saved the planet from the specter of global warming by shutting down all those carbon belching factories.

re: #53 spidly

why do you think they donated and supported one of the candidates in particular?

Yep 100% return on their investment. . .

re: #44 FurryOldGuyJeans

So far Congress and the rest of the Federal Government is doing a much better job at destroying the US than al Qaeda ever dreamt of doing.

Obama needs to do something smart - right now all he has to do is start talking like a capitalist.

re: #54 angst

No, I mean like way back in the good old days.
Like when it took hours or days for bad news to filter out and be processed and then show up in the stock market.

Like the 1929 crash?

Maybe we need a karma rating for Congress and The One.

What goes down has to go up.

I think Ford will survive. They better, I just got a new explorer and I paid for that darn warranty! But not the extended warranty, thank goodness.

re: #55 oronpam

I just keep telling myself that retirement is overrated anyway

You will not HAVE to retire. . .you will be requied to, um I mean, it will be optional, to work on Corpobama

I have decided to refer to the current falling market as the "Obama Victory Rally".

Has anyone caught Olberman or Matthews saying something along the lines of: "Imagine how bad it would have been if McCain had won." ? (Its only a matter of time)

re: #58 Killian Bundy

/boy, you know, as of today, we have officially broken every technical support level known to mankind, "it's a bottomless pit, baby, two-and-a-half miles straight down"

don't even want to think about where the bottom is when we have a "keep digging" admin coming in

re: #64 RightLogic

What goes down has to go up.

Errm, i think you're 180 degrees out of phase with that one...

re: #53 spidly

why do you think they donated and supported one of the candidates in particular?

exactly - We should be able to question somebody's patriotism -

re: #65 angst

It isn't about the car companies, the auto bailout is about saving the union bosses.

re: #60 DisturbedEma

Yep 100% return on their investment. . .

oh hell, I'm sure they've done better than that.

re: #6 Crusty

Time for everyone to start a backyard farm like the English did in WWII.

Americans did that during WW2 also. They were called victory gardens.

re: #57 DisturbedEma

Well, evil capitalism, even the diluted kind, is used to getting bit by those it feeds. . .this time it is just biting back. . .

They think it's all in their head.

re: #63 father_of_10

Maybe we need a karma rating for Congress and The One.

Minus zilch and counting. . .

re: #3 Capitalist Tool

Buying stock in Vaseline...

and ball gags--for self-censorship. Goodness knows we don't want to make to government do anymore than it has too.

OK. Glad I got the arsenal up to snuff. Now, let's start getting some caned goods.

re: #73 spidly

oh hell, I'm sure they've done better than that.

I was being pessimistic. . .

A chicken in every pot.

re: #58 Killian Bundy

"it's a bottomless pit, baby, two-and-a-half miles straight down"

You keep saying that!

BTW, how do I check my Karma?

Obamunism, isn't it great. Like FDR before, Obamunism and his New Deal II will sink the economy and spread misery far and wide.

CitiBank was under $5 a share today ... goog at $250 after being as high as $750 a share. Oil under $50 a barrel.

Do liberals want this to happen? I think they do.

Regardless of what happens with GM, I still want a Corvette. I had a '70 'Vette while in college and it helped me land mother_of_10. Unfortunately, the "10" necessitated getting rid of the 'Vette, but times have now changed and I think a mid-life crisis might be in order! I have a sweet ride now, but still, there's nothing like Corvette!

re: #74 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Americans did that during WW2 also. They were called victory gardens.

I should have known someone would beat me too it.
/

re: #13 spidly

REPOST

Now we need an LGF Karma Ticker app. Watch your Karma in real time.
Maybe a thread index so we know which threads are volatile if we are feeling speculative.

I'm not even looking at my limited investments today....pretty sure they are more limited.

My new retirement plan: Karma and Credit card points. Don't know what they are good for, but its all I've got left.

re: #72 DoubleU

It isn't about the car companies, the auto bailout is about saving the union bosses.

Actually I was thinking yesterday that it was silly for the CEO's to go to DC to beg, since we have a democrat controlled legislature. They should have sent the union presidents.

re: #80 DesertSage

A chicken Ramen in every pot.

Fixed

Here are some symbols the government should ban:

FORD, MITT, GMS, NYT, FNM, FRE

re: #68 buzzsawmonkey

Which is why slipping bodies into the East River is a bad, bad idea.

Sounds like a Viagra commercial.

"If you experienced an erection lasting more than four hours, please call a doctor..." as soon as your wife lets you out of the bedroom.////

re: #27 DesertSage

Could he get going on that already? I had to pay my mortgage and BOTH my car notes this month. Oh the humanity of it all!

New look for the user profile window:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #59 mich-again

Unfortunately, there continue to be carbon belching Franks and Waxmans around.

re: #86 nikis-knight

Should we have an excess profits tax for union bosses?

re: #84 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

PIMF-

I should have known someone would beat me too it.
/

re: #82 bill-tb

Obamunism, isn't it great. Like FDR before, Obamunism and his New Deal II will sink the economy and spread misery far and wide.

CitiBank was under $5 a share today ... goog at $250 after being as high as $750 a share. Oil under $50 a barrel.

Do liberals want this to happen? I think they do.

Until they get thrown out of office. . .then it will be Bush 2.0. . .wait. . .

re: #80 DesertSage

A chicken in every pot.

Yeah, but we're all the frogs in the pot---and the heat is slowly being turned up.

re: #86 nikis-knight

They should have sent the union presidents.

They have been working together and chatting already.

re: #65 angst

I can guarantee that almost nobody is buying American cars right now. They can buy a Toyota or a Nissan and feel safe that they'll get a warranty.

re: #66 DisturbedEma

You will not HAVE to retire. . .you will be requied to, um I mean, it will be optional, to work on Corpobama

Why bother with retirement when we can all just "Renew!"

First I am going to watch the grass grow
then I will watch the caulking dry
then I will watch the primer dry
then I will watch the paint dry

re: #91 Charles

Nice.

re: #68 buzzsawmonkey

Which is why slipping bodies into the East River is a bad, bad idea.

lol

re: #72 DoubleU

Couldn't agree more. Also about protecting voting a voting block.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Well, we have to hit bottom eventually......I've pulled my chute and prayin' it works.

re: #91 Charles

New look for the user profile window:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Goodness that was scary!

re: #83 father_of_10

Maybe you can get one in a "GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE!" I'm sure they will have those, right? By the way, if I own a Chevy 3500, financed by GMAC, and they go under, do I still have to pay the note? Because I could support a small country on what I pay for that honkin' truck each month.

/// I know I'll still have to pay it

re: #81 Rancher

You keep saying that!

Because it's true.

/we're firmly in uncharted territory now

re: #74 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Americans did that during WW2 also. They were called victory gardens.

Nowadays our idea of "pitching in" is to pee in the dark to save electricity so we can feed Al Gore's delusions of manmade global warming.

re: #39 shug

like a large kidney stone

my friend had one get stuck about a half an inch from the end, so he pulled it out with tweezers.

(everyone cringe)

he now wears it as a necklace, inside a block of acrylic. it's about the diameter of a #2 pencil, at it's widest part.

he's toughest guy i know

/true story

re: #91 Charles

Trivia question -- is June 2004 when the currently-used registration system went into operation? No one here has an "age" older than that.

FNM up 4 cents after hours... hahahahahaha

re: #91 Charles

Cool.

paraphrased:
..we gots ta raise capital gains taxes cause, ya see, there's some people making too much money, evens though we are all making money, and tax revenues are up, but it ain't fair that some people make lots of money....better we all gets less money......
O_Liar

/mf'n lyin' bastid's

Anyone ever read Karl Denninger's blog?

Now the credit market is saying that we are going to have more defaults than happened during The Great Depression. That is, it is forecasting a Greater Depression that worse than the 1930s. The TNX (10 year yield) is threatening to break three percent, down another 6% (!) this morning to 3.16%. The bottom going back as far as my charts extend is 3.07%. Almost there.

The 13 Week T-Bill (IRX) stands at 0.1%, which is for all intents and purposes zero. The Effective Fed Funds trading rate has been between 0.2 and 0.3% since the last putative rate cut to 1% - that is, effectively zero.

Corporate AAA commercial mortgage spreads are at extreme wides, standing at over 700 bips; added to reference this means that super senior AAA commercial mortgages now yield more than 10%. Given the level of credit enhancement in these deals this forecasts default rates of more than thirty percent in this space. Similar extreme spreads are found among both the "high grade" and "high yield" corporate bond markets.

The credit market is telling you that we are headed for an S&P 500 trading at three hundred and a DOW at under three thousand. That we are headed for unemployment north of 20% on the U6 (broad) measure, and GDP contraction of twenty percent cumulatively from top to bottom.

That's one person in five in the US without a job, deflation of 20% cumulatively or more in prices, over 2 million businesses going bankrupt in the next three years, and literal starvation and privation - all across America. No part of this nation will be spared.

[Link: market-ticker.denninger.net...]

re: #63 father_of_10

Maybe we need a karma rating for Congress and The One.

how many negative googles are there

I hate to sound trite, but what goes up goes down, and what goes down goes up.

I pump the same amount of money into equities every month, and I'm stubborn enough to go down with the ship, or am I smart?

Let me ask you this: what has happened after every downturn, depression or recession that we've ever had?

Do you really want to try and time the market? Do you want to take what's left of your money out before the zeppellin goes up? Do you want to do something at all?

I might sound like a dumbass, but my suggestion is to stand pat, if you invest, keep it going.

It's happened every single other time the market has taken a bender. Because of my strategy of dollar-cost-averaging i don't mind when the market swings, and this has been extreme, but I stand by my theory that it will all rise again many years before I need the money that I invest in it. If you invest like I do, as a small timer, the main point here is to not get burned by your emotions!

The Sky-is-Falling shit sells stories for the MSM. That is all.

re: #111 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yep.

re: #106 nikis-knight

I'd forgotten about that underground chamber. I was just AT the Denver airport, I could have popped in for a scone or something.

I put this in the spin offs but it's worth putting in the comments as well.
China May Buy GM and Chrysler
[Link: www.thetruthaboutcars.com...]

re: #62 DoubleU

Like the 1929 crash?

No, because we have checks in place to keep that (I hope) from happening again. Maybe this is a slow-motion replay of 1929 and there's nothing that can be done in that event.

But I don't think that people's basic brain wiring has changed enough to be able to entirely deal with information overload in a rational manner. There's a whole field of psychology concerning how people assess risk and reward, and frankly I think our communications systems have outstripped our ability to handle the data. For example, there are studies looking at the behaviors of floor traders on Wall Street. Needless to say, once the adrenaline and testosterone kick in, weird things happen.

re: #108 Killian Bundy

Because it's true.

/we're firmly in uncharted territory now

It's NOT true, KB....Obama will save us!

ugh

re: #109 Crusty

Nowadays our idea of "pitching in" is to pee in the dark to save electricity so we can feed Al Gore's delusions of manmade global warming.

And make sure you don't flush when you do!

Stopping the tossing of 3 billion dollars per quarter down the money hole is one way to stop the bleeding. The auto union bailout will create a perfect storm of destruction in the democrat's wake. They know it too -- and don't know what to do.

Romney, ever the politician, see this and is angling for 2012...at least he is on the right side in this fight.

re: #117 imploderIndeed, it's way too late to get out.

re: #105 JumpLandPackRepeat

welcome hatchling

Citi is under $5 at $4.79. All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Will the Gulf Arabs and Saudis in particular buy shares to protect their investment? This will be very interesting.

re: #61 legalpad

Obama needs to do something smart - right now all he has to do is start talking like a capitalist.

too bad he's not smart.

hell, he's not even "Get Smart".

re: #72 DoubleU

It isn't about the car companies, the auto bailout is about saving the union bosses.

Of course. My dad was a huge believer in the unions, but he wouldn't recognize what they are today. He'd be disgusted.

In today's activity in the NYSE we had 22 issues advancing, 2,842 issues declining and 33 staying the same, for a ratio of advances over declines of 0.08.

13 week t-bills are yielding 0.02%, 5 year notes 1.89% and 10 year notes 3.01%

On the positive side, LIBOR is slowly easing with 1 year LIBOR at 2.91 as compared to 3.97 a month ago and 4.47 a year ago.

The TED spread has dropped form a high of about 4.50 a month ago to about 2.1 now.

That is significant.

re: #72 DoubleU

Thats just silly.

Hey, my Karma's 658! Am I going to heaven?

I'm not sure I could afford a yurt now.

Dude, where's my portfolio?

re: #115 Dirk Diggler

The credit market is telling you that we are headed for an S&P 500 trading at three hundred and a DOW at under three thousand. That we are headed for unemployment north of 20% on the U6 (broad) measure, and GDP contraction of twenty percent cumulatively from top to bottom.

That's one person in five in the US without a job, deflation of 20% cumulatively or more in prices, over 2 million businesses going bankrupt in the next three years, and literal starvation and privation - all across America. No part of this nation will be spared.

I've never heard of him before but I don't think things are going to get that bad.

re: #111 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Trivia question -- is June 2004 when the currently-used registration system went into operation? No one here has an "age" older than that.

you have too much time on your hands if you're researching that. to the salt mines. where there's a whip, there's a way.

re: #61 legalpad

Obama needs to do something smart - right now all he has to do is start talking like a capitalist.

It won't do any good; he's gone in two months.

The market's too scared of Obama, Reid and Pelosi for Bush to calm it, even temporarily.

I thought the predictions were that once Obama got the President-elect prize, that the DOW would rise from the ashes like a Phoenix?!

/doublecorporatetaxesmayhavesomethingtodowithit

re: #131 3 wood

Significant how? Are those good or bad indicators?

re: #130 angst

Why?

re: #118 Charles

Is this what you were thinking? : )

re: #128 gymnast

Citi is under $5 at $4.79. All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Will the Gulf Arabs and Saudis in particular buy shares to protect their investment? This will be very interesting.

They're in a shitstorm because their cash cow is less, "cashy" right now.

re: #117 imploder

I hate to sound trite, but what goes up goes down, and what goes down goes up.

I pump the same amount of money into equities every month, and I'm stubborn enough to go down with the ship, or am I smart?

Let me ask you this: what has happened after every downturn, depression or recession that we've ever had?

Do you really want to try and time the market? Do you want to take what's left of your money out before the zeppellin goes up? Do you want to do something at all?

I might sound like a dumbass, but my suggestion is to stand pat, if you invest, keep it going.

It's happened every single other time the market has taken a bender. Because of my strategy of dollar-cost-averaging i don't mind when the market swings, and this has been extreme, but I stand by my theory that it will all rise again many years before I need the money that I invest in it. If you invest like I do, as a small timer, the main point here is to not get burned by your emotions!

The Sky-is-Falling shit sells stories for the MSM. That is all.

That last line hit the nail on the head. I just thought they'd have stopped once the anointed one was elected, but hey, there're newspapers to sell.

re: #58 Killian Bundy

/boy, you know, as of today, we have officially broken every technical support level known to mankind, "it's a bottomless pit, baby, two-and-a-half miles straight down"

Hudson: We're on an express elevator to .... Goin' down...

re: #118 Charles

Yep.

Say Charles, do you know which LGF commenter has been posting here the longest?

re: #119 ArmyWife

I'd forgotten about that underground chamber. I was just AT the Denver airport, I could have popped in for a scone or something.

/Denver Airport underground base

getting worried about the econ not the time to have a newbie as POTUS

I need to find another source of income.

I wonder what my porn star name should be?

John Dingell defeated by Rep. Henry Waxman for control of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Barry Obama defeats John McCain for President.

/this stuff writes itself...

OT:

Hiz'B'allah Youth!

re: #128 gymnast

Citi is under $5 at $4.79. All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Will the Gulf Arabs and Saudis in particular buy shares to protect their investment? This will be very interesting.

" Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, a longtime investor in Citigroup, said he plans to increase his stake in the bank to 5 percent from less than 4 percent."
You'll notice the Prince didn't say when he was going to buy more Citi...

Things are so bleak right now I actually feel bad for Obama. What a CF he's getting handed.

However, the guy has got to name a Treasury Secretary and he has got to get out there and give some indication of what his plans are. The uncertainty is not helping an already riled market.

re: #144 angst

That last line hit the nail on the head. I just thought they'd have stopped once the anointed one was elected, but hey, there're newspapers to sell.

It isn't January 20, 2009 yet. Until then they have Bush to bash.

re: #119 ArmyWife

I'd forgotten about that underground chamber. I was just AT the Denver airport, I could have popped in for a scone or something.

i'm waiting for instructions. else I have to sit in the bar for two hours on Christmas Eve morning.

My stocks are nearly worthless...

BUT I HAVE A DPC OF .845!

Ugh!
Hey! Anybody need a slightly used kidney?
Bone marrow?
Anyone?

re: #122 DesertSage

It's NOT true, KB....Obama will save us!

/gee, maybe he could start BY NAMING A [EXPLETIVE DELETED] TREASURY SECRETARY!

re: #119 ArmyWife

I'd forgotten about that underground chamber. I was just AT the Denver airport, I could have popped in for a scone or something.

Probably not. It can take days to get through Security.

re: #87 DisturbedEma
A chicken Ramen water in every pot.

Fixed

Really Fixed

/ever make stone soup?

re: #134 Hucbald

Well, if you can't afford a yurt, you could always build a debris hut.

Perhaps this will be the mantra of Obamanomics: war superior survivor skills!

*out*

re: #119 ArmyWife

I'd forgotten about that underground chamber. I was just AT the Denver airport, I could have popped in for a scone or something.

But then you would have to have been eliminated!

Walter in Golden, Colorado (West Metro Lizard Field Office of the DIA Lizard HQ).

re: #160 redc1c4

A chicken Ramen water in every pot.

Really Fixed

/ever make stone soup?

Don't give O any ideas or He will start taxing stones.

re: #137 Eowyn2

you have too much time on your hands if you're researching that. to the salt mines. where there's a whip, there's a way.

Heh -- naw, I was just curious.

Then again, maybe Charles Johnson burped into existence in that nitrogen-filled chamber under Denver Int'l at that time. Did anyone ever actually SEE him prior to that? Huh? Huh?! HUH?!?!

re: #110 redc1c4

OUCH, my sympathies! I had a 10+lb baby....he's 6 now and still hangs off my neck all the time like a necklace.

Buddy? Can ya spare some "CHANGE"?

re: #146 Ringo the Gringo

Say Charles, do you know which LGF commenter has been posting here the longest?

Charles Johnson I would suppose.

On one hand, I hate the fact that I've lost over 70% in the market; on the other, I wish I had more money to invest now that everything is so cheap. I'm young, I can stomach this.

re: #65 angst

They are the best positioned to. The CU rated their quality about on par with Honda and Toyota. Mulally is playing unify the platform so that there will be only one version of a model world-wide. No Focus for Europe and Focus for the US as two different models. The Focus in both the normal engine and the hybrid configuration gets better mileage than the Toyota Camary in a similar configuration. The new F-150 gets better mileage than any of its competition and is as good or better than them in number of things like how level the truck bed stays when you turn. Since you are usually running with a load of something, having the load slam from side to side is not nice. Tying it down takes time. Basically its a better truck. NYC is trying to mandate something other than a Crown Vic for its cabs, but all the guys who make hybrids say that they are not intended for that service. The back seat is too close to the driver, and when you put the panel between them, the passenger would slam into it in a sudden stop. We will see where that one winds up.

Ford is interested in some of the $25 bn to help fund the conversion of one of its truck plants over to producing small and mid-sized cars. Granted money is fungible, but it isn't the crisis that GM has.

re: #105 JumpLandPackRepeat

Well, we have to hit bottom eventually......I've pulled my chute and prayin' it works.

My grandfather only liked jumping out of one airplane—when he looked up, it no longer had a wing.

If anything, I'm heartened by the fact that my horse has retained her value. Sure, she shits hay and eats me out of house and home, but she can clear a meter and a half like she's eating a kit-kat. And she can do it while there's a snow-storm.

Now that's real value.

re: #141 mich-again

My dad grew up in coal camps where people routinely were killed. He saw one of the biggest mining disasters in history go down in Butte, MT. and his dad barely escaped alive. Consequently, all of his siblings and he worked their tails off to never have to go down a mine shaft, no matter what. The unions were absolute heroes in that day. To his dying day, he would not drink Coors.

He wouldn't understand the whole concept of a jobs bank or $75.00/hr net compensation, when all they were shooting for was to avoid dying from Black Lung disease.

re: #139 ornery elephant

I thought the predictions were that once Obama got the President-elect prize, that the DOW would rise from the ashes like a Phoenix?!

/doublecorporatetaxesmayhavesomethingto dowithit

And capital gains taxes going up 40%. Yee-haw!

Do you get the feeling that none of these clowns know the first thing about Economics?

re: #163 FurryOldGuyJeans

Don't give O any ideas or He will start taxing stones.

and seizing pots......

besides, there's no point in giving him ideas: they'd die of loneliness inside his head. %-)

You think you had a bad day?
Weather ruins perfect lunch

I think that it is obvious that the Congress has no idea how to fix this problem & it is obvious that the markets don't trust "Dear Leader" Obama.

This whole problem could be fixed in a short time with 3 executive orders (supported by BHO when he gets in)

1. Immediately cut all Cap Gains Tax by 50% retro for the entire 2008 year
2. All 1st mortgages immediately convert to 3% fixed rate for either the remaining term of the loan or 30 years depending on which is less. (If the banks want bailout money they will make this deal). In this way, even people who pay their mortgage on time would benefit.
3. Cut the Bull$hit talk of ending the 401K's favorable tax treatment.

I suppose it may be time to sell one of these pathetic stocks and take advantage of the capital loss rules....now which one...eeny meeny miney moe.

re: #172 imploder

If anything, I'm heartened by the fact that my horse has retained her value. Sure, she shits hay and eats me out of house and home, but she can clear a meter and a half like she's eating a kit-kat. And she can do it while there's a snow-storm.

Now that's real value.

some special things will always retain their value.

I wonder if all those BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International) execs are still chained to rings in the floor of a parking garage in Dubai? Too bad the Saudi's didn't do the same thing to the Citi execs, the last time they and Robert Rubin were over there beggin' for bucks a few months ago while we were still paying $4 bucks a gallon for gas.

re: #91 Charles

I thought Capt Kirk killed the Gorn with that improvised mortar he made out of coal and diamonds!
Guess it was only a flesh wound...

I saw TV news team today in Beverly Hills, standing in front of a mansion asking "why are people building houses like this?"....I thought the owner of that mansion probably works his ass off to make ends meet, but that didn't stop CBS from trying to start a race-war.

re: #146 Ringo the Gringo

Say Charles, do you know which LGF commenter has been posting here the longest?

Uh, Charles has.

re: #170 Shr_Nfr

Isn't Ford also the only one that managed to come up with new designs for the big auto show this week?

re: #64 RightLogic

What goes down has to go up.

Tell it to the Titanic.

I mean Class War, not race war....sorry.

re: #173 angst

A couple of years ago I spoke to a man in a nursing home who started working in the Scranton mines when he was 5. Unions were a lifeline to many people back then. Now they seem more like a bloated tick.

re: #160 redc1c4

A chicken Ramen water in every pot.

Really Fixed

/ever make stone soup?

salt soup.

re: #163 FurryOldGuyJeans

Don't give O any ideas or He will start taxing stones.

They're working real hard to tax the air you breathe- you and all similar US CO2 pollutant spewing eevil methane belching humans.

re: #179 nyc redneck

some special things will always retain their value.

Yessir, and special she certainly is. I never thought an animal would cause me to become so introspective, but between my horse and my dog, I'm a fucking mess.

re: #134 Hucbald

We could swing the payments on land and a $10k yurt, but there's that tiny little problem of not being able to get a loan.

California: Housing prices only drop when no one can get a loan.

re: #167 Walter L. Newton

re: #146 Ringo the Gringo

Say Charles, do you know which LGF commenter has been posting here the longest?

Charles Johnson I would suppose.

There are a couple of registered Minions who were here pre-9/11. They post very rarely nowadays, though. I can't recall the names at the moment.

/ 10/02

re: #152 Capitalist Tool

" Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, a longtime investor in Citigroup, said he plans to increase his stake in the bank to 5 percent from less than 4 percent."
You'll notice the Prince didn't say when he was going to buy more Citi...

The Prince put the money in yesterday and the stock still fell today! The Cheap Charlie is trying to nickel and dime his way to financial security. The only way the Saudis are going to keep from pounding sand in this crisis is to start selling oil futures for 12 bucks a barrel.

re: #188 David IV of Georgia

A couple of years ago I spoke to a man in a nursing home who started working in the Scranton mines when he was 5. Unions were a lifeline to many people back then. Now they seem more like a bloated tick.

That's good metaphor.

re: #193 Spiny Norman

OTHER than Charles, I should have said.

PIMF

re: #171 David IV of Georgia

Whuffos ALWAYS ask why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.....I answer that there's no such thing.

re: #131 3 wood

I'm hoping you're right.
Enough with the testing of the lows...let's get rallying!

Help! I am being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system. My 401K is hemorrhaging, we need help stat!

re: #197 JumpLandPackRepeat

Whuffos ALWAYS ask why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.....I answer that there's no such thing.

I was almost over my fear of flying, and then I read that!

re: #198 CalBear84

I'm hoping you're right.
Enough with the testing of the lows...let's get rallying!

I don't see anything to rally around. Not yet anyway.

re: #158 Killian Bundy

/gee, maybe he could start BY NAMING A [EXPLETIVE DELETED] TREASURY SECRETARY!

“You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.” Rohm Emanuel in an interview with the New York Times. Obama could stop the slide if he just came out and said "Now is not the time to raise anyones taxes." But he won't.

I kinda liked being employed and living above hunter-gatherer level. But I suppose I can tale some solace in the fact that while I'm living as a shivering subsistence farmer, the Obama voters will be eating each other in the streets.

CHANGE!

/be careful what your little pea brain wishes for...

re: #91 Charles

New look for the user profile window:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Gorn!:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

On the Good News front: One of my weblog's articles has been re-posted specifically for consumption behind the Great Firewall of China. It is not translated, but everything else on the page is in Simplified Chinese.

No link; I won't bring it to the authorities' attention.

Kantate Sachsen Anhalt Warmblut

Money is only money when we're talking a good horse.

re: #203 maddogg

the Obama voters will be eating each other in the streets.

Never been to Times Square?

re: #171 David IV of Georgia

My grandfather only liked jumping out of one airplane—when he looked up, it no longer had a wing.

While researching flight paths for an EIS at a municipal airport, I was taken aboard a jump plane of a sky diving business. After the last of the 'divers left the plane, at 12,000 feet, the pilot turned to me and said, "Fuckin' idiots."

/priceless

re: #144 angst posted: "Let me ask you this: what has happened after every downturn, depression or recession that we've ever had?"

Feel as you do. Not going hog wild but just staying the course.
A Canuk here so I know our financial rules are a bit different, and of which I'm not an expert, at all. But I do agree, keep in mind, the news will hype it up and make it worse than it actually is, as per usual.

re: #191 imploder

Yessir, and special she certainly is. I never thought an animal would cause me to become so introspective, but between my horse and my dog, I'm a fucking mess.

yes, i love my dog like that. and when my unicorn arrives i think i will go crazy w/joy. i have enough space for a unicorn and i told my husband to get going on building the stall.

re: #207 Capitalist Tool

Never been to Times Square?

Times like this makes this dried up po-dunk town feel a hair safer.

re: #205 victor_yugo

Great! The blogs are coming, resistance is futile.l

I wonder how much of this is truly market panic over The One, and how much of it would be happening anyway because dominos are falling.

And will Bush try a lame-duck stunt over the economic crisis to shore up his "legacy"? Or do too many people already think Obama is President?

re: #204 zelnaga

And at Memory Alpha.

re: #192 noraono

We could swing the payments on land and a $10k yurt, but there's that tiny little problem of not being able to get a loan.

California: Housing prices only drop when no one can get a loan.

No, they drop when the bank lowers the price on the repo to unload it faster. Seriously. Lender-owned properties are what's driving the market here. Loans for qualified buyers (15-20% down + decent credit and employment history) are definitely available.

Sales of existing homes are up 45% from a year ago, fwiw.

/in the biz

re: #207 Capitalist Tool

Never been to Times Square?

Nope, they don't let me loose among the populace very often...

re: #200 angst

Oh damn, sorry! They are very safe of course, I just prefer coming down on my own wing.

The U.S. automobile industry will survive, but the UAW needs to die. Right now. There ain't no high-school dropout worth $72 per hour in wages in benefits.

re: #153 zenren

Hard to feel sorry for Obambi.
After all, his redistribution of wealth statements plus his intention to raise capital gain taxes and top-tier income tax rates is responsible for some of this sell off.

Australia has opened and is now down 3.05%

re: #188 David IV of Georgia

Yeah. The government has taken on most of the health and safety responsibilities for workers. The only thing unions do these days is bargain for higher wages and benefits and protect the incompetent from being fired.

re: #68 buzzsawmonkey

Which is why slipping bodies into the East River is a bad, bad idea.

HA!

I voted for McCain, so why am I glad he lost?

(Start stock shopping when the DOW hits 6800)

I posted this yesterday, but it fits in well here:

Good News, Really

Believe it or not, I think this picture is actually good news.

This is a little flawed, since we would expect a constant trend to be a constant percent increase each year, which would be upward curving on this chart, not a straight line trend (it would be straight on a log scale). Never-the-less, it makes a point (by the way, it is interesting the 1980's are considered the decade of greed on Wall Street rather than the 1990s, from this chart).

Here is a better way to make my point. We get a similar chart if we look at PE ratios for the S&P500 (the chart at the link is on trailing 10 year average earnings)

Why is this anything but depressing? Because I get the sense that many people, without any other general indicator of how bad things are in the financial markets, are using the steep drops in the stock market as a proxy measure. The stock market looks like a disaster, so everything else must be a disaster.

But in a large sense, at least so far, all the stock market has done in the last 2 weeks is return to historical norms. This tells me that there is nothing about the current level of the stock market that is screaming disaster signals. In fact, the current level of the stock market is screaming normalcy.

Of course, this does not mean the drop will stop here. PE's in the worst of times have headed on down to 5 (which would be about DOW 3000, yuk). And corrections seldom stop at the mean - they usually over-correct on below the mean. But seen on these charts, this recent move looks more like the completion of the correction to the late 1990's bubble rather than necessarily an indicator of current financial disaster.

This quote...

"Paulson: Crisis happens once or twice in 100 years... "

Makes no sense at all. There is not way to compare the economics of the 1800's with the economics of the 1900's. Now, we only had one depression in the 1900's, and a few bumpy times in the 1800's, then what he is saying is...

What the fuck is he saying? Nothing I suspect.

re: #213 Lizard by the Bay

And will Bush try a lame-duck stunt over the economic crisis to shore up his "legacy"? Or do too many people already think Obama is President?

If by "lame-duck" you mean "hands off and let the chips fall where they may," I think Bush is already doing it.

re: #210 nyc redneck

yes, i love my dog like that. and when my unicorn arrives i think i will go crazy w/joy. i have enough space for a unicorn and i told my husband to get going on building the stall.

My dog is a bit of a retard, but then again, she's kind of smart, like doing my checkbook smart...

re: #223 David Baker

I voted for McCain, so why am I glad he lost?

(Start stock shopping when the DOW hits 6800)

Anyone playing the "How Low Can You Go?" game?

re: #197 JumpLandPackRepeat

Whuffos ALWAYS ask why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.....I answer that there's no such thing.

It was a good plane until the Nazis sent a little AA at it.
He got to jump with a heavy machine gun and a couple of cans of ammo. He usually jumped last and landed first. Once he realized it made him a hard target he didn't mind the hard landings.

re: #213 Lizard by the Bay

I wonder how much of this is truly market panic over The One, and how much of it would be happening anyway because dominos are falling.

Most of this would be happening anyways. All of this has been in the works for the past 10-15 years. Some this is reaction to Obama's proposals but his effect is pretty minimal.

re: #63 father_of_10

Maybe we need a karma rating for Congress and The One.

Better make that scale in Kelvin to avoid using negative numbers.

Don't worry... Obama is on the case... he'll fix it.

/the wrong way.

re: #201 logboy

I agree LB, times look bleak right now, but keep the faith.
And thank you for your service to our country.

re: #208 IslandLibertarian

While researching flight paths for an EIS at a municipal airport, I was taken aboard a jump plane of a sky diving business. After the last of the 'divers left the plane, at 12,000 feet, the pilot turned to me and said, "Fuckin' idiots."

/priceless

My thought would be, so was he. A business owner referring to his paying customers as F**ing idiots is a great way to keep customers. I would certainly never jump his aircraft again knowing he had such contempt for me and my sport. Speaking as a skydiver.

re: #173 angst

My dad grew up in coal camps where people routinely were killed. He saw one of the biggest mining disasters in history go down in Butte, MT. and his dad barely escaped alive. Consequently, all of his siblings and he worked their tails off to never have to go down a mine shaft, no matter what. The unions were absolute heroes in that day. To his dying day, he would not drink Coors.

He wouldn't understand the whole concept of a jobs bank or $75.00/hr net compensation, when all they were shooting for was to avoid dying from Black Lung disease.

Another example of libs f'ing things up when they get their hands on it.

re: #147 Killian Bundy

ooooooh boy

re: #149 DesertSage

I need to find another source of income.

I wonder what my porn star name should be?

"Honey Sage" :P

re: #218 snopercod

The U.S. automobile industry will survive, but the UAW needs to die. Right now. There ain't no high-school dropout worth $72 per hour in wages in benefits.

That's not going to sit good with the O, you know. They need the dwindling UAW base to secure their victories in whereverlandia.

re: #188 David IV of Georgia

A couple of years ago I spoke to a man in a nursing home who started working in the Scranton mines when he was 5. Unions were a lifeline to many people back then. Now they seem more like a bloated tick.

All parisite will kill the host

How bad is it?

/the cats are lookin' kinda tasty

re: #231 brickthruplateglasswindow

Better make that scale in Kelvin to avoid using negative numbers.

Even that won't do the job.

Oil complex continues down. NYMX crude now 48.73 off 1.4% blending gasoline is 98.9 off 1.79%. Trade times around 6:20 PM EST according to my Bloomberg terminal.

re: #133 Rancher

Hey, my Karma's 658! Am I going to heaven?

Have to get over the 666 mark.

re: #215 Spiny Norman

Okay, I was over simplfying =) Unfortunately I don't make near enough to have a 15-20% down even on a condo but have great credit and employment history. I would have been one of the people who benefited from the "bad" lending practices and not defaulted.

Still thinking this yurt business is for me, husband and I are in an apartment and currently have too many animals according to our city zoning laws.

re: #227 imploder

My dog is a bit of a retard, but then again, she's kind of smart, like doing my checkbook smart...

what a cute photo. my big boy is half yellow lab and half rottweiler.
and your daughter is adorable.

re: #240 Killian Bundy

How bad is it?

/the cats are lookin' kinda tasty

They always do. Corn-fed, as well.

re: #228 father_of_10

Anyone playing the "How Low Can You Go?" game?

Yup. Haven't made an IRA contribution since the market bottomed in 2002. I knew prices have been too GD high for too long. But this year looks good for the max contrib. Just got to wait until it starts to tick up (or April 14th, whichever comes first).

re: #243 calcajun

Have to get over the 666 mark.

My karma is in the wind. I'm sub-400. I'll never get a karma-loan.

Then again, that's just me.

re: #230 Killgore Trout

Most of this would be happening anyways. All of this has been in the works for the past 10-15 years. Some this is reaction to Obama's proposals but his effect is pretty minimal.

I don't disagree that a certain "correction" seemed inevitable. The problem is, our Solons won't let the friggin' market do what they need to do. They keep running around in a panic, throwing MY MONEY every which way they can, spreading panic, and meanwhile BHO's going around talking like a redistributionist and tax-hiker, while his esteemed colleagues in Congress make noises about asset taxes and pension grabs. It's like these guys are some sort of Bizzaro-World version of King Midas - everything they touch turns into... well, you know.

re: #239 n in wi

All parisite will kill the host

Huh?

"Parasite" just means that the host derives no benefit. It does not automatically follow that the host will die from the parasite's attachment.

re: #117 imploder

Let me ask you this: what has happened after every downturn, depression or recession that we've ever had?

I figure it may be five years to regain what's been lost in the last six months. Barring any cataclysm, the market will come back and reach new highs. If you don't need the money now, you'll be okay.

The possible silver lining is that The One may realize that politically, this is no time for the implementation of a socialist agenda. Maybe the Bush tax cuts will even be extended in light of the financial "crisis" in the markets. In any event, I've got to believe that Barry Lightworker will feel some very tight constraints on implementing anything that will drive the markets lower.

re: #248 imploder

My karma is in the wind. I'm sub-400. I'll never get a karma-loan.

Then again, that's just me.

Should called Free- Karma Report. Com

I can't wait to get my Chinese car.
Would someone please pass me a razorblade?//

re: #253 ploome hineni

symbiotic?

OT: Is this new karma thingee kind of like feedback on ebay?

re: #243 calcajun

Have to get over the 666 mark.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could hire out here as a karma improver?
... " Up-Dings For Hire. "

hmmmmmm

re: #255 Spare O'Lake

I can't wait to get my Chinese car.
Would someone please pass me a razorblade?//

Chinese car? What are you, a Rockefeller? How's about a Flying Pigeon - very popular, you know, and millions on the road world-wide.

re: #185 angst

Isn't Ford also the only one that managed to come up with new designs for the big auto show this week?

Ford came into this crisis in a much better position than GM. They are several years into a plan to restructure the company and make it much more efficient, and those changes were paying off. Ford also has a more favorable contract with the UAW IIRC. I've seen financial reporters say that Ford would last the longest of the three if no help is coming from the government. Something on the order of a full year, as opposed to the several months that are predicted for GM and Chrysler. I heard this a couple weeks ago, so I don't know how valid the time frame is now.

re: #219 CalBear84

Yup. He did spout a lot crap on the campaign trail. However, I really can't believe that he will come in and raise capital gains as well as income tax on the upper tiers. That would really kill things. I have to believe some of his economic advisors are aware of this.

re: #259 ploome hineni

a liberal?

re: #242 Shr_Nfr

Oil complex continues down. NYMX crude now 48.73 off 1.4% blending gasoline is 98.9 off 1.79%. Trade times around 6:20 PM EST according to my Bloomberg terminal.

I love cheap gas as much as the next guy but the downside is that it effectively mutes "drill here, drill now" which is a fundamental building block of American energy independence.

re: #253 ploome hineni

what is a benficial parasite called?

/no googling

Wife

/*grinning* and running like hell

Oh lets kill the coal industry and lets get all of our electricity from some new thing and lets just bide our time until all is well again thanks to the Munifient O.

re: #245 nyc redneck

what a cute photo. my big boy is half yellow lab and half rottweiler.
and your daughter is adorable.

That's nice of you to say. Just to prove how jacked up my family is, you must see this picture...

The dog does help with homework, however, and she's quite good at Spanish...

re: #227 imploder