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Texas Board of Education Besieged by Evolutionists

US News | Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:20:03 pm PST

Some people complain when we post about creationism, or “intelligent design,” its cleaned-up stepchild. They say we should focus on important subjects, nobody really cares about this creationism stuff.

But quite a few Texas residents do care about it, as their state has become the latest front in the Discovery Institute’s “Wedge strategy:” Evolution proponents descend on state education panel.

AUSTIN — Texas became the latest stage for the debate about evolution and creationism Wednesday, as more than 80 witnesses trooped before the State Board of Education to weigh in on proposed changes in the public school science curriculum.

With few exceptions, the speakers — scientists, teachers, clergy and grassroots activists — took the side of evolution, saying they feared that the proposed changes will open the door to the teaching of creationism or intelligent design.

Board Chairman Don McLeroy said the lopsided turnout was part of an orchestrated campaign and flatly dismissed the notion that the board is intent on sabotaging the teaching of evolution in public schools, which would defy the U.S. Supreme Court.

“This is all being ginned up by the evolution side,” McLeroy, of College Station, said in an interview during a break. “I’m a creationist, but I’m not going to put creationism in the schools.” ...

“Scientists overwhelmingly consider evolution to be established, mainstream science, and scientists have been crystal-clear in explaining that phony arguments against evolution are based on ideology, not science,” said Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network.

Wendy Holtcamp, a freelance writer, drew a sharp reprimand from McLeroy when she accused the board of lying. “Are you willing to play dice with our children’s education as our nation’s science lead deteriorates?” Holtcamp asserted.

One of the few voices from the other side came from Paul Kramer, a Carrollton engineer, who said that more than 700 eminent scientists welcome the teaching of pros and cons about evolution. Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories “seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said.

Also see:
The Wedge strategy.

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1441 comments

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1 HelloDare  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:21:48pm

Soothing music. Now this.

2 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:22:04pm
Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories "seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said.

Good gravy! Why do they always go with a nazi comparison?

3 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:22:32pm

re: #1 HelloDare

Soothing music. Now this.

The velvet glove treatment?

4 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:22:58pm
Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories "seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said.


Ha!

5 Charles  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:23:50pm

Godwin'ed hisself right out, there.

6 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:25:16pm

re: #4 Killgore Trout

You have to love this part:

untested and unproven theories

It's like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh wait- he doesn't!

7 cowbellallen  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:26:13pm

I still don't get what the problem is.... if someone could spell it out for me I would quite appreciate it.

8 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:29:24pm
9 LEGION  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:29:28pm

NOW they rename the Tribourough bridge in NY City the RFK bridge- 40 years after his demise? Stop with all this renaming stuff already. Give- me- a- break. Name something once and leave it alone. Name something else after him, yesh.

10 Charles  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:31:13pm

re: #7 cowbellallen

I still don't get what the problem is.... if someone could spell it out for me I would quite appreciate it.

Well, the problem is, you have some guys from Seattle, creationists, looking to push a certain anti-evolution schoolbook they've written (titled Explore Evolution) into Texas public school science classes. This gives them legitimacy and helps them get the book accepted in other states, because Texas schoolbook purchases are so large they influence the whole country.

And someone just stacked the board's science review committee with two of the authors of the very book in question. That's why all these people turned out to protest.

Doesn't it smell a little funny to you? Does to me.

11 Dan G.  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:31:25pm

Where've I heard this evolution = nazi before...?

/

12 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:31:53pm

re: #7 cowbellallen

I still don't get what the problem is.... if someone could spell it out for me I would quite appreciate it.

The problem is evolution has been tested- it's science. ID is not. ID is creationism in a new shade of lipstick.

Read the Wedge Strategy

13 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:32:04pm

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

They are asking for socialism in the free marketplace of ideas.

14 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:32:30pm

re: #9 LEGION

NOW they rename the Tribourough bridge in NY City the RFK bridge- 40 years after his demise? Stop with all this renaming stuff already. Give- me- a- break. Name something once and leave it alone. Name something else after him, yesh.

Any comment from Sirhan Sirhan, or maybe his pal Ayers?

15 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:35:00pm

OT: Lionheart?


Four arrests in race-hate leaflets probe

FOUR people have been arrested this morning in connection with an investigation into the distribution of leaflets in Lancashire which claim Muslims are responsible for the heroin trade.

A 41-year-old man from Burnley, a 43-year-old man from Blackburn, a 53-year-old man from Preston and a 57-year-old man from Nelson have been arrested on suspicion of the publication and distribution of written material intended to stir up racial hatred and the possession of racially inflammatory material.

16 VegasRick  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:35:43pm

re: #14 Nevergiveup

Any comment from Sirhan Sirhan, or maybe his pal Ayers?

Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment as well.

17 Dan G.  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:35:47pm

Pretty shady how that article allows the last 2 phrases to go unchallenged (i.e. unproven and nazi).

18 USBeast  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:36:54pm

"One of the few voices from the other side came from Paul Kramer, a Carrollton engineer, who said that more than 700 eminent scientists welcome the teaching of pros and cons about evolution. Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories "seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said."

"Untested and unproven theories"...? Those would be "Creation Science" and "Intelligent Design".

Oh, wait. They can't be tested because...well, because!.

19 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:36:58pm

re: #7 cowbellallen

The Creationists (literal believers in the Bible's 'creation' timeline) want their BELIEFS taught in school AS IF those beliefs are FACT.

If it is FACT, there's no need for belief.
If it is BELIEF, there's no need to teach it as fact.

Further, when once that door is opened to Creationists, in America it must then remain open to Islamic Creato-Fascists, Flying Spaghetti-Monsterists, LRonHubbard Alien-Creationists, and even far out weirdos...

Beginning to see The Problem, Allen? :D

20 Charles  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:37:23pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

What makes you think that? The location?

21 stevieray  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:39:48pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Wasn't Lionheart from Luton?

22 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:39:54pm

re: #20 Charles

That was one of his main themes; that Muslims were responsible for the drug trade. I think he was from Manchester, but I can't recall.

23 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:40:03pm
24 cowbellallen  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:40:11pm

re: #10 Charles

Well, the problem is, you have some guys from Seattle, creationists, looking to push a certain schoolbook they've written (titled Explore Evolution) into Texas public school science classes. This gives them legitimacy and helps them get the book accepted in other states, because Texas schoolbook purchases are so large they influence the whole country.

And someone just stacked the board's science review committee with two of the authors of the very book in question. That's why all these people turned out to protest.

Doesn't it smell a little funny to you? Does to me.

Ahhhh, gotcha. I haven't really been paying attention to this stuff I suppose.

I'm actually a high school student in a Dallas suburb and my dad turned me on to your site a couple years ago. Some of the biology teachers in my school have been talking about how people want to teach creationism in schools... I'm just ignorant on the whole issue and don't really understand why it is such a big deal. I'm not advocating any side, I just flat out don't know anything about the subject, so sorry if my question seemed a little stupid.

25 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:40:19pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

racially inflammatory material.

WHAT? Do tell, what "race" are Muslims?

/duhhh

26 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:41:22pm

Interesting comment from the article...

"Board Chairman Don McLeroy said the lopsided turnout was part of an orchestrated campaign and flatly dismissed the notion that the board is intent on sabotaging the teaching of evolution in public schools, which would defy the U.S. Supreme Court."

I guess it's not possible that the turnout was due to the fact that the scientist and such had a leg to stand on, considering rulings of the Supreme Court, years of research and just plan fact.

27 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:42:03pm
One of the few voices from the other side came from Paul Kramer, a Carrollton engineer, who said that more than 700 eminent scientists welcome the teaching of pros and cons about evolution. Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories "seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said.

And this leaves the door open to ID because...why, exactly?

28 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:42:57pm

What is wrong with public school education is that children are not being taught how to read, write, calculate, and reason.

29 psyop  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:43:17pm

re: #10 Charles

Well, the problem is, you have some guys from Seattle, creationists, looking to push a certain anti-evolution schoolbook they've written (titled Explore Evolution) into Texas public school science classes. /blockquote>

Man... Seattle just can't do anything right. I love the city, I just clash with (most of) the people.

30 Cicero05  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:43:31pm
One of the few voices from the other side came from Paul Kramer, a Carrollton engineer, who said that more than 700 eminent scientists welcome the teaching of pros and cons about evolution. Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories "seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said.

I wonder if Mr. Carrollton thinks schools should teach the "pros and cons" of geocentrism too so the kids can make up their own minds.

31 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:43:32pm

re: #10 Charles

Well, the problem is, you have some guys from Seattle, creationists, looking to push a certain anti-evolution schoolbook they've written (titled Explore Evolution) into Texas public school science classes. This gives them legitimacy and helps them get the book accepted in other states, because Texas schoolbook purchases are so large they influence the whole country.

And someone just stacked the board's science review committee with two of the authors of the very book in question. That's why all these people turned out to protest.

Doesn't it smell a little funny to you? Does to me.

It seems funny to me as well. Evolution is a theory, but it is the one that best fits the facts. We should teach the truth as best we know it.

32 Dan G.  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:43:46pm

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

The article is a bit lopsided itself... one the one hand you have evolution proponents performing lopsided turnouts to support a mainstream supported idea and on the other you have an engineer asking for proof (unchallenged). Sounds like the author is reaching out to those who don't know much about the topic and is trying to make the creationsists sound like they're just looking for proof...

33 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:43:53pm

re: #24 cowbellallen

Ahhhh, gotcha. I haven't really been paying attention to this stuff I suppose.

I'm actually a high school student in a Dallas suburb and my dad turned me on to your site a couple years ago. Some of the biology teachers in my school have been talking about how people want to teach creationism in schools... I'm just ignorant on the whole issue and don't really understand why it is such a big deal. I'm not advocating any side, I just flat out don't know anything about the subject, so sorry if my question seemed a little stupid.

Not stupid at all, we don't expect everyone to know all the background on everything. Keep asking. (Although, if you keep asking the same thing over and over again hoping for a different answer, then we may get around to the stupid label.)

34 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:44:35pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

That was one of his main themes; that Muslims were responsible for the drug trade. I think he was from Manchester, but I can't recall.

Who is Lionheart again?

35 Dan G.  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:45:36pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

A bigot who was shown the door.

36 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:45:47pm

re: #20 Charles

and there's also this....

CONTROVERSIAL British National Party leader Nick Griffin visited Burnley as thousands of BNP members panicked over a leaked membership list.
Mr Griffin joined protesters outside Burnley Police Station the day after the leaked list exposed teachers, prison officers and police officers as members of the party, along with 74 residents in the Burnley area.

He was in town to support four men arrested in connection with an investigation into the distribution of alleged racially inflammatory leaflets, but faced a barrage of questions from the media relating to the list.

I think the source is here but the article won't display for me.

37 psyop  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:46:10pm

re: #28 Alouette

What is wrong with public school education is that children are not being taught how to read, write, calculate, and reason.

Ahhh... the three R's....

38 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:46:15pm

re: #24 cowbellallen

Wow- you're still in high school? I didn't realize we had Lizards that young here. Cool!

And you should listen to your teachers on this issue. Intelligent Design is more of a philosophy, and isn't science in any way.

39 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:46:46pm
40 Tom on the rez  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:47:01pm

“Are you willing to play dice with our children’s education as our nation’s science lead deteriorates?”

That's just what we're doing by letting freshmen choose their own tax-paid majors. If we're going to pay for it, shouldn't we tell them what we're willing to pay for (hard sciences, engineering, etc.). This country should plan for its future - let the social science majors pay their own way.

Or maybe I just read too much Jerry Pournelle.

41 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:50:04pm

re: #39 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. To which I would add, "memorize."

I recall being required to learn poetry by heart in gradeschool English classes. It acquainted me with certain classics, and classic turns of phrase; it taught grammar, language rhythm, vocabulary, an appreciation for the spoken tongue; it increased memory capacity, which stood me in good stead when I was required to learn vocabulary in foreign-language classes. All of which are virtues that have now gone by the board.

I second THAT!

Punching keys on a solar-powered calculator is no substitute for 9x7=63
MEMORIZED... and learning how to master the memorization process, the techniques of memorization... THESE and the ability to REASON are far more important tnan "Here, Johnny, click this to get Excel... and click THIS for Word..."

42 bosforus  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:50:44pm

NO! Not science!
/

44 least  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:51:48pm

re: #40 Tom on the rez

Or maybe I just read too much Jerry Pournelle.


I dunno if that's possible.

45 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:51:53pm

re: #10 Charles

Well, the problem is, you have some guys from Seattle, creationists, looking to push a certain anti-evolution schoolbook they've written (titled Explore Evolution) into Texas public school science classes. This gives them legitimacy and helps them get the book accepted in other states, because Texas schoolbook purchases are so large they influence the whole country.

And someone just stacked the board's science review committee with two of the authors of the very book in question.

As Gollum would say, "tricksy bastardssssssssssss".

46 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:52:03pm

re: #40 Tom on the rez

“Are you willing to play dice with our children’s education as our nation’s science lead deteriorates?”

That's just what we're doing by letting freshmen choose their own tax-paid majors. If we're going to pay for it, shouldn't we tell them what we're willing to pay for (hard sciences, engineering, etc.). This country should plan for its future - let the social science majors pay their own way.

Or maybe I just read too much Jerry Pournelle.

Hard to read too much of him. His "Prince of Sparta" series has been a starting point for my understanding of counter-insurgency.

47 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:52:51pm
48 HelloDare  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:52:53pm

re: #43 Neo Con since 9-11

Sorry for the early OT but some good news for the lizards.

Much celebrating tonight.

That's Spinoff worthy.

49 Lumyrra  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:54:06pm

re: #24 cowbellallen

Ahhhh, gotcha. I haven't really been paying attention to this stuff I suppose.

I'm actually a high school student in a Dallas suburb and my dad turned me on to your site a couple years ago. Some of the biology teachers in my school have been talking about how people want to teach creationism in schools... I'm just ignorant on the whole issue and don't really understand why it is such a big deal. I'm not advocating any side, I just flat out don't know anything about the subject, so sorry if my question seemed a little stupid.

As far as I know, we don't mind questions here. It's certain other kinds of comments that get annoying. Personally, I'm glad that you want to know more about the subject.

50 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:54:13pm

When is the election for school board happening again? This occurred in Kansas a few years back right? My memory is not serving me well tonight...

51 WhiteRasta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:54:16pm

Test.

52 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:54:38pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Who else?

53 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:55:21pm

re: #39 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. To which I would add, "memorize."

I recall being required to learn poetry by heart in gradeschool English classes. It acquainted me with certain classics, and classic turns of phrase; it taught grammar, language rhythm, vocabulary, an appreciation for the spoken tongue; it increased memory capacity, which stood me in good stead when I was required to learn vocabulary in foreign-language classes. All of which are virtues that have now gone by the board.

I still remember "Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening" by Frost which I had to memorize in the third grade and Lady MacBeth's soliloquy that I had to memorize in high school.

I've tried teaching The Kid the multiplication tables but, he adds it up more quickly in his head than I can flash the sequential cards. When I mix the cards up, he still adds the numbers up quickly.

54 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:56:28pm

re: #47 buzzsawmonkey

Wow.

I didn't hit that 'New Math' crap, memorized my times tables only to 12, thinking myself much maligned, but finding others who memorized to 20!

Logical fallacies, IF--THEN, compared to WHAT?, WHO says? ...

Without these mental strengths, people could fall victim to smooth-talking charlatans with no executive experi-

Woops.

55 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:56:40pm

re: #37 psyop

Ahhh... the three R's....

The four R's

56 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:56:45pm

IMO, about all that needs to be taught of evolution before college is that the theory exists and what it basically states. Despite the centrality of evolution to explaining the "why" of biology, there's plenty of biology to teach that's of much more practical application to non-scientists.

The civic purpose of educating the electorate could probably even be met without getting into evolution at all. It's not like we're going to be voting on policy issues related to evolution, anymore than we're going to be voting on policy issues related to cosmology or plate tectonics.

57 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:57:13pm

re: #43 Neo Con since 9-11

Remember when the moonbats said that if the US killed one leader he would be replaced by 100 others who were worse? Then whenever we kill one of those bastards, violence drops like a rock...

Kudos to the army for killing that scum. If I could ding up their karma, I would.

58 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:57:39pm

re: #52 Guanxi88

It might be a common theme with the BNP but I do remember there being some speculation that Lionheart was being investigated over leaflets he was distributing or harassing Muslims in his neighborhood. I also saw him over at Spencer's blog talking about the urgent need for him to move to Ireland. I'm just guessing, really it could be anybody.

59 Nevergiveup  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:57:46pm

UN vote shows growing support of death penalty ban

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

So let me get this right. The UN is against the death penalty but have no problem with terrorists killing innocents? Kinda like being against the death penalty but pro-abortion?

60 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:58:15pm
Evolution proponents descend on state education panel

The descent of man!

61 USBeast  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:58:40pm

re: #27 solomonpanting

And this leaves the door open to ID because...why, exactly?

Well, it might be that the only theory that the ID and CS folks want to debate is Evolution which has been proven in the lab, the field and everywhere else beyond a reasonable doubt. To continue such a debate is pointless to the point of being silly and scientists have every right to tell the ID and CS crowd to either come up with some serious proof or sit down and shut up.

62 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:58:49pm

re: #40 Tom on the rez

“Are you willing to play dice with our children’s education as our nation’s science lead deteriorates?”

That's just what we're doing by letting freshmen choose their own tax-paid majors. If we're going to pay for it, shouldn't we tell them what we're willing to pay for (hard sciences, engineering, etc.). This country should plan for its future - let the social science majors pay their own way.

Or maybe I just read too much Jerry Pournelle.

Ummmmmmm...the only tax-payers who paid for my major were my parents.

63 logboy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:58:51pm

Uh oh! This is going to bring them out of the wood work. 5, 4, 3, 2.....

64 monkeytime  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:59:04pm

re: #25 Karridine

WHAT? Do tell, what "race" are Muslims?

/duhhh

Well, they are a different race then the Baptists and Mormons. They are a pretty pure race though. It can get tough when the races start mixing. I knew a racially mixed couple, Dutch Reform and Lutheran. Oh - the kids were really picked on in school.

/sarc

65 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:59:21pm

Stuff like this makes me wonder: On the one hand, we've got the folks who want the curriculum packed solid with indoctrination in leftist orthodoxies and the worst refuse from our academic world. On the other, we've got otherwise decent folk who, for reasons that simply mystify me, absolutely insist that certain fundamental principles of modern science are untrue because they appear to contradict certain truths contained in revealed scripture.

Not to sound like the RamBam on this one, but if what we know by the power of reason to be true appears to contradict what we know by revelation to be true, then we must attempt to understand the origin of the conflict. In every case, the source of the problem is in our inadequate understanding of the revealed truth. The language of prophecy is not the language of science; the former speaks in metaphors and images, the latter in concrete, clear expression.

66 bryantms  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:59:23pm

I love these threads...

67 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:59:27pm

re: #47 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. The only time in my life I was ever a "math whiz" was the year after I returned to the US from living overseas. I had learned the times-tables by rote in the foreign classroom; I came back to a class in the throes of the "new math"--and for two years I was the only person in my class who knew how to multiply.

I had a junior high math teacher who would engage the class in mental calculations thusly:
"What is two times ten plus five plus ten divided by seven times nine plus five divided by ten times three."
She'd say this as fast as one can read this and expected answers immediatley.

68 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:59:35pm

re: #39 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. To which I would add, "memorize."

I recall being required to learn poetry by heart in gradeschool English classes. It acquainted me with certain classics, and classic turns of phrase; it taught grammar, language rhythm, vocabulary, an appreciation for the spoken tongue; it increased memory capacity, which stood me in good stead when I was required to learn vocabulary in foreign-language classes. All of which are virtues that have now gone by the board.

Drama and theater classes, which may seem frivolous and "gay" to some, are great incentives for memorization, particularly if the classics (Shakespeare, Euripides) are performed.

Eugene O'Neill, however, sucks. So does Arthur Miller, except for "The Crucible."

69 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 5:59:59pm
70 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:00:24pm

re: #21 stevieray

I think you're right. I just checked his blog and he does appear to be from Luton.

71 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:00:28pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

It might be a common theme with the BNP but I do remember there being some speculation that Lionheart was being investigated over leaflets he was distributing or harassing Muslims in his neighborhood. I also saw him over at Spencer's blog talking about the urgent need for him to move to Ireland. I'm just guessing, really it could be anybody.

Well, I tell you the truth, the guy just seems made to order for it.

72 logboy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:00:29pm

re: #66 bryantms

I love these threads...

Agreed! Just sit back with a beer and a bag of popcorn and watch the show.

73 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:00:56pm

re: #59 Nevergiveup

UN vote shows growing support of death penalty ban

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

So let me get this right. The UN is against the death penalty but have no problem with terrorists killing innocents? Kinda like being against the death penalty but pro-abortion?

They only support killing those who can't fight back. Cowards is what they are.

74 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:01:31pm

re: #41 Karridine

I second THAT!

Punching keys on a solar-powered calculator is no substitute for 9x7=63
MEMORIZED... and learning how to master the memorization process, the techniques of memorization... THESE and the ability to REASON are far more important tnan "Here, Johnny, click this to get Excel... and click THIS for Word..."

I was lousy at math. It was my worst subject. But I once dazzled (inadvertently) a bunch of twenty-somethings by working out in my head a good rough estimate for the speed of light in miles per hour, based on knowing it in miles per second. Now... it's really not that hard to do.

75 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:02:09pm

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

They only support killing those who can't fight back. Cowards is what they are.

If you start out being benevolent to the evil, you end up being evil to the innocent.

76 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:02:20pm

re: #38 Sharmuta

Wow- you're still in high school? I didn't realize we had Lizards that young here. Cool!

And you should listen to your teachers on this issue. Intelligent Design is more of a philosophy, and isn't science in any way.

Better if they did some research now that they have been exposed to the subject. Taking their teachers as the sole authority could be just as bad as letting some authority figure push ID as science.

77 WhiteRasta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:02:35pm

re: #59 Nevergiveup

There is a big debate in Jamaica about repealing the death penalty.

[Link: www.jamaica-gleaner.com...]

78 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:03:22pm

re: #40 Tom on the rez

“Are you willing to play dice with our children’s education as our nation’s science lead deteriorates?”

That's just what we're doing by letting freshmen choose their own tax-paid majors. If we're going to pay for it, shouldn't we tell them what we're willing to pay for (hard sciences, engineering, etc.). This country should plan for its future - let the social science majors pay their own way.

Or maybe I just read too much Jerry Pournelle.

The blacksmith, the engineer, the artist and the ploughman: It takes all kinds.

79 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:03:39pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

the teacher started us off with the first line of Casabianca ("The boy stood on the burning deck") and went from student to student; each had to supply one line on the spot, in proper rhyme and meter--not the actual lines of the poem, but something we made up.

Teacher: "The boy stood on the burning deck..."

buzzsaw:¨"...and exclaimed, 'it was already on fire when I got here, I swear!'

80 Racer X  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:03:44pm

Here comes the ISS

Left coast Lizards: in about 15 minutes poke your head outside and look up. No need to stick out your thumb - the Vogons will not willingly pick up hitchhikers.

NorCal Lizards should get the best view.

81 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:09pm

re: #41 Karridine

A classic education disappeared from our schools during the 50's onward. As a victim of the 'new math' of the 60's, it forever messed me up in regards to mathematics. The ability to do math in your head pretty much went away with slide rules. So to figure a 15% tip now requires a calculator. IMHO students should be kept away from calculators until they hit algebra, at which point they get to use a four banger calculator. Word processors? They make formatting a document a little easier, but the writing is still the same. Spread sheets? You've got to use some basic programming skills for them to function. The educational foundations of yore are now built on shifting sands of 'new' and often unproven educational theories. Stop experimenting on our children.

82 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:13pm

re: #71 Guanxi88

Well, I tell you the truth, the guy just seems made to order for it.

Agreed. He is the same kind of assclown, even if he isn't a BNP member.

83 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:38pm

re: #80 Racer X

Here comes the ISS

Left coast Lizards: in about 15 minutes poke your head outside and look up. No need to stick out your thumb - the Vogons will not willingly pick up hitchhikers.

NorCal Lizards should get the best view.

Too much wind and clouds for me. :(

84 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:43pm

re: #74 Occasional Reader

I was lousy at math. It was my worst subject. But I once dazzled (inadvertently) a bunch of twenty-somethings by working out in my head a good rough estimate for the speed of light in miles per hour, based on knowing it in miles per second. Now... it's really not that hard to do.

I was lousy in English OR..

85 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:44pm

re: #75 Guanxi88

If you start out being benevolent to the evil, you end up being evil to the innocent.

Who said that? (just asking)

86 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:49pm
87 Racer X  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:53pm

re: #67 solomonpanting

15?

88 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:04:54pm

re: #65 Guanxi88

Stuff like this makes me wonder: On the one hand, we've got the folks who want the curriculum packed solid with indoctrination in leftist orthodoxies and the worst refuse from our academic world. On the other, we've got otherwise decent folk who, for reasons that simply mystify me, absolutely insist that certain fundamental principles of modern science are untrue because they appear to contradict certain truths contained in revealed scripture.

Those two mighty broad brushes with which you're painting your picture.

89 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:05:48pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Now what are the 'police' going to do IF, as the pamphlets claim, the local Muslims ARE, IN FACT, steering and masterminding the local heroin problem?

90 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:07pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Good for him. Good for you.

I know we had to memorize the Gettysburg Address; The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere; Hamlet's soliloquy; Ozymandias--oh, a host of stuff.

I suppose that I was slated as a lyric parodist at an early age, when in a class at 3rd-grade level the teacher started us off with the first line of Casabianca ("The boy stood on the burning deck") and went from student to student; each had to supply one line on the spot, in proper rhyme and meter--not the actual lines of the poem, but something we made up.

All she did was help you hone the talent that God gave you.

91 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:18pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Who said that? (just asking)

Sages, in the Talmud.

92 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:23pm

re: #87 Racer X

15?

You get extra recess!

93 monkeytime  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:32pm

If someones religion has a problem with the proven science of evolution then they need to teach it in Sunday school and not in public school. If it is that important to the parents why don't they get off their bum bum and 1. teach the kids themselves 2. take them to sunday school. I don't want everyone to get free time to teach kids their own personal religious belief in school. I hate to think of what the Scientologists would cook up. Good grief.

94 theparson  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:45pm

I am in agreement that creation, i.e. religion shouldn't be taught in public schools. Not because I'm against religion but because so much power rests in the hands of those who teach. They can influence what "flavor" of religion is taught.
Likewise, my concern with the teaching of evolution is the ability of the teacher to move it from science into the realm of faith (or the lack thereof).
If a creationist teacher comes in with an agenda to persuade students to believe a particular religion, I would think that to be detrimental. Also, if a teacher begins to teach evolution to the exclusion of a deity, that would be equally as bad.

95 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:52pm

re: #91 Guanxi88

Sages, in the Talmud.

Thank you.

96 yochanan  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:53pm

[Link: www.floppingaces.net...]

I ♥ sarah palin

97 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:06:54pm

re: #79 Occasional Reader

Teacher: "The boy stood on the burning deck..."

buzzsaw:¨"...and exclaimed, 'it was already on fire when I got here, I swear!'

LOL!

98 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:07:17pm

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Nope. Not proper rhyme; not proper meter.

There was a young man named Dave...

99 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:07:18pm
100 Racer X  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:07:24pm

re: #92 solomonpanting

You get extra recess!

Yesssss!

*fist pump*

101 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:07:39pm

re: #72 logboy

Break out the heavy stuff when you can tell people are screaming the words while writing them.

102 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:07:52pm

re: #88 MandyManners

Those two mighty broad brushes with which you're painting your picture.

Maybe if we talk about it in terms of Kali, where we have a few more hands available for examples.

103 snowcrash  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:08:00pm

re: #24 cowbellallen
My son is a Junior in (a suburb of Dallas) public High School and isn't aware of any behind the scenes attempts to dumb down science ed. Parents find out what is in the text and on the syllabus for the upcomming year during curriculum night and then can deal with the principal and the school board if needed. It's not a problem in my ISD.
BTW, I'm impressed you post here.

104 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:08:10pm

re: #84 HoosierHoops

I was lousy in English OR..

Stuffy English tutor: Now, there are two words one must never use. One is ¨swell¨, and the other is ¨lousy¨.

[Lucy, Ricky, Fred and Ethel nod in agreement, smiling earnestly]

[long pause]


Fred Mertz: Tell us the lousy one first.


(I don´t know why I remember these things, I swear...)

105 ggt  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:08:29pm

Good Evening Lizards! It's still cold in Near Iowa.

I have a Karma rating--how cool is that. Of course, I don't know what to do with it.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

106 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:08:39pm
107 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:09:10pm

Teaching the background for evolution, such as the conservation of the genetic code, the concepts of mutation, morphogenesis, allelic variation, Mendelian dominance and recessivity, and some population level/ecological concepts like habitat, competition, extinction, should give the teachers plenty to talk about in the limited time available in science class, and form the foundation for higher level theories like evolution in college.

108 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:09:12pm

re: #88 MandyManners

Those two mighty broad brushes with which you're painting your picture.

Well, sometimes, you just gotta paint in broad strokes. It's like sign-painting: if you go for too much detail, it's hard to see. You use the big brushes for the big points.

And, strictly speaking, there's no getting around it: these two extremes I presented are a vanishingly small minority within the spectrum, but hey are there, and are useful to illustrate, by their own extremism, the sort of problem we face. There really are folks who want the education system to do nothing but prepare people for a lifetime of adherence to leftist orthodoxy and lifestyle politics, and there really are folks who object to the teaching of evolutionary theory on purely (and thinly-veiled) religious grounds.

109 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:09:19pm

re: #74 Occasional Reader

I was lousy at math. It was my worst subject. But I once dazzled (inadvertently) a bunch of twenty-somethings by working out in my head a good rough estimate for the speed of light in miles per hour, based on knowing it in miles per second. Now... it's really not that hard to do.

I found that trying to program in BASIC on one of the school district's main-frame computer terminals made it easy to understand a lot of calculus. Was especially fun when learning about Non-Euclidean Geometry. Created one "universe" that was shaped like a Pringles potato chip.

110 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:09:24pm

re: #81 Perplexed

My father, born in 1920 and high-schooled in the early '30s, went for another 30 years thinking himself deprived by not having a college education, but then in the 1970s researchers published research papers stating that HIS education was the functional equivalent of a full 4-year collegiate program current at that time (1970's)!

Cheered him for decades, because it validated something his experience had already shown him, Perplexed!

111 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:09:35pm

re: #102 CyanSnowHawk

Maybe if we talk about it in terms of Kali, where we have a few more hands available for examples.

Ok, if Kali is in the picture, which secretive Obama supporter is Mola Ram?

112 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:09:47pm

re: #89 Karridine

My guess is that this is a situation like the thread from last night where a VB member was accusing Muslims of vandalizing a cemetery.

113 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:10:35pm

re: #102 CyanSnowHawk

Maybe if we talk about it in terms of Kali, where we have a few more hands available for examples.

Kill for the love of killing!
Kill for the love of Kali!
Kill!
Kill!
KILL!

-Gunga Din (the movie, that is)

114 Cutty Sark  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:11:02pm

Did someone equate evolution with nazis ?

You DID hear it before as nazi scientists equated what the Reich was doing , with "survival of the fittest ", not really evolution but an offshoot like Natural Adaption . But it all boiled down to nihilism and superiority of a particular strain of the white race .
Hey wait a minute !

Isn't Texas a Republican State .

I'll bet that entourage of creationists hitting the Texas school system are all Republicans .

It makes for an interesting fight , but parents should know , their kids have well working bullshit detectors .
What everyone here is worrying about , has already happened , via Mom & Dad .....much more influential than a school book . LOL....one need only look at the State of Utah ! Who are we kidding ?

Besides , the muslims got one leg up on everyone , the Saudis pay for schools books AND DISTRIBUTED TO MUSLIM SCHOOL IN THIS COUNTRY ...THE USA .

They dont fight court battles , and they by-pass all the riga-morole, they simply sneak them in , use them , and when they get busted , they promise to revise them , and guess what ? They dont .

I would be more concerned regarding the teaching of hatred of all that is NON-MUSLIM , giving religious license to JIHAD , rationalizing and thereby justifying the ultimate end of the teaching of hatred .....VIOLENCE .
Such books are already in use , not widely but certainly across this country , Virginia , New York and D.C. to name a few . And in Virginia of all places right in Jerry Falwells backyard .

When I see creationists blowing up airliners , pirating ships , killing innocents , and trying to rule the world by their own narrow standards , then I'll consider worrying about them .

But take heart , it seems many forget , we have a Supreme Court , and we all are entitled to Due Process.....so if the good people of Texas are willing to fight what is being foisted on them .....then The Supreme Court will have the final word , and any "book " they attempt to float , will remain on ice , until the court decides .


However , keep in mind at all times , the Saudi Books and the schools that use them , disrespect , even despise with contempt- American Law when it comes to the tenets of their ideology , and simply ignore .
And believe it , because it's happening right now .

115 DesertSage  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:11:19pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would say, rather, that she sparked, or helped spark, a love of wordplay which has been a real pleasure for the rest of my life.

On the other hand, I still haven't learned Photoshop.

If you want to learn photoshop, this guy has an entire series of tutorials. They're pretty insightful.

You Suck at Photoshop

116 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:11:44pm
117 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:12:00pm

re: #110 Karridine

My father, born in 1920 and high-schooled in the early '30s, went for another 30 years thinking himself deprived by not having a college education, but then in the 1970s researchers published research papers stating that HIS education was the functional equivalent of a full 4-year collegiate program current at that time (1970's)!

Cheered him for decades, because it validated something his experience had already shown him, Perplexed!

Ever seen a graduation test for a 6th grader in the late 1800's? Passing that would be equivalent to a high school diploma. Our educators have gone wobbly on us.

118 logboy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:12:12pm

re: #101 SWPaul

Break out the heavy stuff when you can tell people are screaming the words while writing them.


Nah, i just wait and laugh when they get booted.

"HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE I AM NOT THE DIRECT DESCENDANT OF THE PTERODACTYL!"

It gets better by the minute!

119 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:12:24pm

re: #24 cowbellallen

Ahhhh, gotcha. I haven't really been paying attention to this stuff I suppose.

I'm actually a high school student in a Dallas suburb and my dad turned me on to your site a couple years ago. Some of the biology teachers in my school have been talking about how people want to teach creationism in schools... I'm just ignorant on the whole issue and don't really understand why it is such a big deal. I'm not advocating any side, I just flat out don't know anything about the subject, so sorry if my question seemed a little stupid.

Play your cards right, you could get voted into office on a decent platform.

120 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:12:24pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would say, rather, that she sparked, or helped spark, a love of wordplay which has been a real pleasure for the rest of my life.

On the other hand, I still haven't learned Photoshop.

Your modesty humbles me.

121 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:12:43pm

re: #114 Cutty Sark

Did someone equate evolution with nazis ?

You DID hear it before as nazi scientists equated what the Reich was doing , with "survival of the fittest ", not really evolution but an offshoot like Natural Adaption . But it all boiled down to nihilism and superiority of a particular strain of the white race .
Hey wait a minute !

Isn't Texas a Republican State .

I'll bet that entourage of creationists hitting the Texas school system are all Republicans .

It makes for an interesting fight , but parents should know , their kids have well working bullshit detectors .
What everyone here is worrying about , has already happened , via Mom & Dad .....much more influential than a school book . LOL....one need only look at the State of Utah ! Who are we kidding ?

Besides , the muslims got one leg up on everyone , the Saudis pay for schools books AND DISTRIBUTED TO MUSLIM SCHOOL IN THIS COUNTRY ...THE USA .

They dont fight court battles , and they by-pass all the riga-morole, they simply sneak them in , use them , and when they get busted , they promise to revise them , and guess what ? They dont .

I would be more concerned regarding the teaching of hatred of all that is NON-MUSLIM , giving religious license to JIHAD , rationalizing and thereby justifying the ultimate end of the teaching of hatred .....VIOLENCE .
Such books are already in use , not widely but certainly across this country , Virginia , New York and D.C. to name a few . And in Virginia of all places right in Jerry Falwells backyard .

When I see creationists blowing up airliners , pirating ships , killing innocents , and trying to rule the world by their own narrow standards , then I'll consider worrying about them .

But take heart , it seems many forget , we have a Supreme Court , and we all are entitled to Due Process.....so if the good people of Texas are willing to fight what is being foisted on them .....then The Supreme Court will have the final word , and any "book " they attempt to float , will remain on ice , until the court decides .


However , keep in mind at all times , the Saudi Books and the schools that use them , disrespect , even despise with contempt- American Law when it comes to the tenets of their ideology , and simply ignore .
And believe it , because it's happening right now .

Fair point, but, speaking for myself, I don't think a theocratic state is a likely result of sneaking this creationsit/I.D. stuff into the curriculum. Rather, I think the risk is further dilution of the value of a public education.

122 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:12:44pm

re: #117 Perplexed

Ever seen a graduation test for a 6th grader in the late 1800's? Passing that would be equivalent to a high school diploma.


Somebody linked to one recently. It was really tough.

123 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:13:03pm

re: #116 buzzsawmonkey

Hell, no. Get 10% by dropping the last digit of the number, halve it and add the two. Easy.

Now how about using your knuckles to remember which month has 30 or 31 months.

124 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:13:11pm

re: #104 Occasional Reader

Stuffy English tutor: Now, there are two words one must never use. One is ¨swell¨, and the other is ¨lousy¨.

[Lucy, Ricky, Fred and Ethel nod in agreement, smiling earnestly]

[long pause]


Fred Mertz: Tell us the lousy one first.


(I don´t know why I remember these things, I swear...)

Rippity-pippity A.

125 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:13:37pm

re: #116 buzzsawmonkey

Hell, no. Get 10% by dropping the last digit of the number, halve it and add the two. Easy.

You know that and I know that. How many 18 yr olds can do that in their head?

126 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:13:41pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

"Ehhhh.... could be, Doc!"

127 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:13:54pm
Texas became the latest stage for the debate about evolution and creationism Wednesday, as more than 80 witnesses trooped before the State Board of Education to weigh in on proposed changes in the public school science curriculum.

With few exceptions, the speakers — scientists, teachers, clergy and grassroots activists — took the side of evolution, saying they feared that the proposed changes will open the door to the teaching of creationism or intelligent design.

Game on!

/so, what's the score, who's winning?

128 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:13:58pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

I would say, rather, that she sparked, or helped spark, a love of swordplay which has been a real pleasure for the rest of my life.

Isn't that kind of dangerous?


(I learned this technique from Peacekeeper; the fake typo)
129 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:14:07pm

re: #118 logboy

Nah, i just wait and laugh when they get booted.

"HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE I AM NOT THE DIRECT DESCENDANT OF THE PTERODACTYL!"

It gets better by the minute!

It's always fun to watch the troll get the hook.

130 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:14:23pm

re: #81 Perplexed

So to figure a 15% tip now requires a calculator.

So that's why servers now expect to receive 20%

131 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:14:24pm

re: #124 MandyManners

Rippity-pippity A.

Kewpie doll for you! Or, in its absence, and upding.

132 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:14:36pm

and meaning an, of course

133 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:14:47pm

re: #125 Perplexed

You know that and I know that. How many 18 yr olds can do that in their head?

I doubt many 18 yr olds could pick their nose without video instructions.

134 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:14:53pm
135 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:15:02pm

re: #108 Guanxi88

Well, sometimes, you just gotta paint in broad strokes. It's like sign-painting: if you go for too much detail, it's hard to see. You use the big brushes for the big points.

And, strictly speaking, there's no getting around it: these two extremes I presented are a vanishingly small minority within the spectrum, but hey are there, and are useful to illustrate, by their own extremism, the sort of problem we face. There really are folks who want the education system to do nothing but prepare people for a lifetime of adherence to leftist orthodoxy and lifestyle politics, and there really are folks who object to the teaching of evolutionary theory on purely (and thinly-veiled) religious grounds.

In the meantime, the great middle just wants its kids reared, educated and to be productive members of society. That's why I chose a private school for The Kid.

136 Racer X  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:15:21pm

re: #115 DesertSage

If you want to learn photoshop, this guy has an entire series of tutorials. They're pretty insightful.

You Suck at Photoshop

ROFLMAO!

137 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:15:23pm

re: #133 FurryOldGuyJeans

I doubt many 18 yr olds could pick their nose without video instructions.

That's on YouTube, right? I think I saw the tutorial over at instructables.

138 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:16:07pm

re: #117 Perplexed

Ever seen a graduation test for a 6th grader in the late 1800's? Passing that would be equivalent to a high school diploma. Our educators have gone wobbly on us.

And, so have many parents.

139 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:16:37pm

re: #116 buzzsawmonkey

Hell, no. Get 10% by dropping the last digit of the number, halve it and add the two. Easy.

Way too complicated. I just don't leave tips.

140 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:16:44pm

re: #135 MandyManners

In the meantime, the great middle just wants its kids reared, educated and to be productive members of society. That's why I chose a private school for The Kid.

Me, too. A religious school, yet, and they teach evolution in science class, and creation in scripture. This way, the kids get to have their dinosaurs and the word of the Lord, both.

Seems to me a minor atrocity, to take dinosaurs away from the kids.

141 Charles  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:17:03pm

re: #114 Cutty Sark

Dude.

142 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:17:10pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

Somebody linked to one recently. It was really tough.

My point exactly. You had students who had pencils, paper, ink and pens and little else. They worked and worked hard at their studies. Our educational system has failed the taxpayers and deprived students of a decent education. That's why home schoolers often run circles around the public schooled.

143 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:17:16pm

re: #117 Perplexed

Yes, Perp, I HAVE seen one of those 6th grade tests!

It appears arcane and difficult to me, now, with its furlongs and yards and other measures, but those were the measures OF THE DAY, in common use for the agrarian community of that time, and as such VERY PERTINENT to an honest, successful life in 1880's America...

And there were other aspects, social questions, Constitutional concepts, just as tough! GOOD STUFF, Kiddo!

144 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:17:29pm

re: #131 Occasional Reader

Kewpie doll for you! Or, in its absence, and upding.

Awesome! No. 19,578!

*smooch*

145 DesertSage  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:18:10pm

re: #136 Racer X

ROFLMAO!

You should watch the rest of them. The guy is funnier than shit.

146 Brit in Japan  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:18:16pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

Good gravy! Why do they always go with a nazi comparison?

Because they can't win the argument.

K.

147 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:18:34pm
148 logboy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:18:36pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

It's always fun to watch the troll get the hook.

And that is why I like these threads!

149 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:18:46pm

re: #140 Guanxi88

Me, too. A religious school, yet, and they teach evolution in science class, and creation in scripture. This way, the kids get to have their dinosaurs and the word of the Lord, both.

Seems to me a minor atrocity, to take dinosaurs away from the kids.

For some reason, The Kid never got into dinosaurs. He was too busy stomping butt with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

150 Occasional Reader  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:19:10pm

re: #144 MandyManners

Awesome! No. 19,578!

*smooch*

But I'm closing in.

¨Don't look back, something might be gaining on you.¨

-Satchel Paige

151 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:19:22pm

re: #118 logboy

Give it ten minutes, go to LGF2, read what their new member has to say and have lolz for hours.

152 Thanos  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:19:44pm

I smell a jwoby.

153 rawmuse  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:20:12pm

re: #43 Neo Con since 9-11

Great news! thanks for posting that.

154 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:20:14pm

re: #142 Perplexed

My point exactly. You had students who had pencils, paper, ink and pens and little else. They worked and worked hard at their studies. Our educational system has failed the taxpayers and deprived students of a decent education. That's why home schoolers often run circles around the public schooled.

What are you talkin about? I can't wait to see how high of marks my boy will receive in putting 'Condom on Banana' day.

/

155 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:20:18pm

re: #151 SWPaul

Give it ten minutes, go to LGF2, read what their new member has to say and have lolz for hours.

I'd rather go swimming in a full cesspool, thank you very much.

156 Sheldon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:20:44pm

OT - What a dope, (Iowa) talk

[Link: blogs2.startribune.com...]

157 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:20:57pm

re: #121 Guanxi88

A theocratic state may NOT be the proximal outcome of a pro-ID decision, but that DECISION becomes Thin-Entering Wedge allowing the entry of other belief-systems disguised as 'science', Guan

158 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:21:21pm

re: #147 buzzsawmonkey

The Feral Parents of Park Slope, Brooklyn let their little demons run wild, without discipline of any kind. If the children are extra-destructive they will try to "reason" with them. Nobody "reasons" with a 3-year-old.

I've heard of that neighborhood before, and I have a vague recollection of the problem with their progeny.

159 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:21:45pm

re: #114 Cutty Sark

Lolz. I grew up in a Republican state and I learned evolution! My board of supervisors were probably Republican, so then evolutionists must be Republicans.

OH MY GOD! REPUBLICANS ARE BOTH EVOLUTIONISTS AND CREATIONISTS!

Did anyone know we were actually living in a one-party system where the theory of evolution was the only issue that one based his/her party preference on?!

160 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:22:09pm

re: #149 MandyManners

For some reason, The Kid never got into dinosaurs. He was too busy stomping butt with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

When my youngest son (who was just married last week) was 5 years old, someone asked him, which was his favorite Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. He said, "I don't speak Russian."

161 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:22:41pm

re: #150 Occasional Reader

But I'm closing in.

¨Don't look back, something might be gaining on you.¨

-Satchel Paige

Yeah, yeah. 1,542. I'm skeeeerrrrrred.

162 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:22:46pm

re: #143 Karridine

Yes, Perp, I HAVE seen one of those 6th grade tests!

It appears arcane and difficult to me, now, with its furlongs and yards and other measures, but those were the measures OF THE DAY, in common use for the agrarian community of that time, and as such VERY PERTINENT to an honest, successful life in 1880's America...

And there were other aspects, social questions, Constitutional concepts, just as tough! GOOD STUFF, Kiddo!

So why aren't teachers teaching the way they taught 100 years ago? I believe it is due to mission creep. Teach a person like they did 100 years ago and college would be pretty much unnecessary for most people. Colleges would see a drop in enrollments and that hurts the pocketbook.

163 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:22:58pm

re: #155 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well if you went over there, then technically....

164 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:23:52pm

re: #141 Charles

Wow. Negative karma closely approaching number of comments.

165 logboy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:23:53pm

re: #151 SWPaul

Give it ten minutes, go to LGF2, read what their new member has to say and have lolz for hours.

Funny as it is, those guys are way farther off the "beaten path" than I like to venture. At least here we have some common ground rules. Over there? Not so much. When I start reading that stuff I can actually feel myself getting loony.

166 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:23:54pm

Hi Lizards..
So I got a new dog a couple of weeks ago..cuter than hell..was living for a year in a polebarn..poor thing.
So yesterday i took Winston to the Vet..
Well after a thousand shots and stuff being poked up his ass and liquid stuff being poured down his nose..boy is he pissed off at me.. He is really sore and cries when you touch him..
But when i walk in the room i see that look in his eyes..Look hoopster..you stay the hell away from me..I walk towards him to pet him he cowers like i was going to abuse him..
Even now i can see him eying me across the room..
Stay away from me you bastard!..
He is pitiful..but i am laughing my ass of.

167 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:24:00pm

re: #160 Alouette

When my youngest son (who was just married last week) was 5 years old, someone asked him, which was his favorite Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. He said, "I don't speak Russian."

TMNT is a Commie plot?! Pizza and lounging around are Revolutionary Measures? Dooooood. I didn't know.

(The Kid and I useta' fight over Mikey.)

168 Charles  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:24:08pm

re: #159 SWPaul

Did anyone know we were actually living in a one-party system where the theory of evolution was the only issue that one based his/her party preference on?!

It isn't.

169 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:24:10pm

re: #151 SWPaul

Give it ten minutes, go to LGF2, read what their new member has to say and have lolz for hours.

re: #155 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'd rather go swimming in a full cesspool, thank you very much.

I'd call such a stalker site the cesspool. I've got no desire to see something like that. The only things there are the turds Charles has flushed.

170 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:24:19pm

re: #163 SWPaul

Well if you went over there, then technically....

Ok, I would prefer to do a pre-frontal lobotomy on myself by shoving candy corn up my nose, thank you very much. ;)

171 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:24:27pm

re: #149 MandyManners

For some reason, The Kid never got into dinosaurs. He was too busy stomping butt with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

That works, too. My oldest, the girl, is just nuts for reptiles, and the look of pure joy and wonder on her face when she saw her first dinosaur exhibit at a REAL MUSEUM (yes, Creation Museum, I'm looking at you!) and realized that these wondrous beasts once lived on the same planet that we do, was indescribable.

I can't imagine denying children that, even as I can't imagine trying to make them believe that these things co-existed with humans, and, indeed, with all other modern animals.

172 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:24:56pm

I smell Sarah Palin.

/she's a religious zealot psychopath committed to the concept of imposing a Christian theocracy, you betcha, don't ya know

173 MandyManners  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:25:10pm

Gotta' go beat The Kid. brb

174 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:25:12pm

Religion of pedophiles.....
The way you Mecca me feel

MICHAEL JACKSON has become a Muslim — and changed his name to MIKAEEL.

The skint superstar, 50, donned Islamic garb to pledge allegiance to the Koran in a ceremony at a pal’s mansion in Los Angeles, The Sun can reveal.
...
Brit singer Yousef Islam, 60 — who was called Cat Stevens until he famously converted — turned up to help Jacko celebrate.

Heh.

175 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:25:23pm

re: #154 Oh no...Sand People!

What are you talkin about? I can't wait to see how high of marks my boy will receive in putting 'Condom on Banana' day.

/

I up dinged you for a funny post. Sadly, it is what some of our schools have descended to for current curriculum. How does that make a child ready for the world?

176 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:25:43pm

re: #157 Karridine

A theocratic state may NOT be the proximal outcome of a pro-ID decision, but that DECISION becomes Thin-Entering Wedge allowing the entry of other belief-systems disguised as 'science', Guan

All right, it's a good point you've got there. Hadn't thought of it like that, but you're right.

177 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:26:17pm

re: #165 logboy

log

/sorry, had to get that out of my system

178 DesertSage  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:26:20pm

re: #173 MandyManners

Gotta' go beat The Kid. brb

Fascist!

179 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:26:27pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Religion of pedophiles.....
The way you Mecca me feel

Heh.

They are just doing as The Prophet did.

180 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:26:28pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Religion of pedophiles.....
The way you Mecca me feel

Heh.

Hey. Now he can target those 6 to 9 year olds and feel good about it.
Mo approved!

181 Thanos  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:26:58pm

re: #172 Killian Bundy

I think you have Sarah confused with Bobby? :P

182 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:27:00pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Religion of pedophiles.....
The way you Mecca me feel

Heh.

Can we mail them both to Mecca in a box labeled "Mixed Nuts"?

183 LoFlyer  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:27:08pm

re: #166 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards..
So I got a new dog a couple of weeks ago..cuter than hell..was living for a year in a polebarn..poor thing.
So yesterday i took Winston to the Vet..
Well after a thousand shots and stuff being poked up his ass and liquid stuff being poured down his nose..boy is he pissed off at me.. He is really sore and cries when you touch him..
But when i walk in the room i see that look in his eyes..Look hoopster..you stay the hell away from me..I walk towards him to pet him he cowers like i was going to abuse him..
Even now i can see him eying me across the room..
Stay away from me you bastard!..
He is pitiful..but i am laughing my ass of.

Haar, 'me dogs(mates) get really nervous when they recognize we are at the vet, but I always take 'em in together, it just works better that way...

184 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:27:36pm

re: #167 MandyManners

TMNT is a Commie plot?! Pizza and lounging around are Revolutionary Measures? Dooooood. I didn't know.

(The Kid and I useta' fight over Mikey.)

He didn't know what a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle was. He thought it was some phrase in Russian. (He speaks fluent Russian now)

185 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:28:00pm

re: #166 HoosierHoops

The dog will crap somewhere in your house as revenge. Get him some of those green chlorophyll doggie treats. Dog's fight over them.

186 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:28:23pm

re: #175 Perplexed

I up dinged you for a funny post. Sadly, it is what some of our schools have descended to for current curriculum. How does that make a child ready for the world?

Exactly.

/High School Musical 3 isn't true life? (sorry...I had to throw that in there...I was forced to watch it...)

187 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:28:32pm
188 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:28:47pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

Another interesting tid bit....

Jackson is due to give evidence in court next week after being sued by Sheikh Abdulla bin Hamad Al Khalifa, second son of the King of Bahrain.

Sheikh Abdulla, who is seeking $US7 million ($10.7 million), claims he helped support the cash-strapped Jackson in the aftermath of his child molestation trial.

Sheikh Abdulla claims Jackson promised to pay back the money, while Jackson says he thought it was a gift.

189 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:29:17pm

re: #181 Thanos

I think you have Sarah confused with Bobby? :P

/Bobby?

190 logboy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:29:43pm

re: #177 Killian Bundy

log

/sorry, had to get that out of my system

By Blamo!

Its fine, but if anyone starts singing "I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok..." I'll be forced to kick your ass.

191 SWPaul  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:29:51pm

re: #168 Charles

Darn! Oh well, one can dream...

Just kidding.

192 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:30:08pm

re: #187 buzzsawmonkey

Teachers, and parents, have been subjected to Theories of Pedagogy which have dumbed down most aspects of curriculum.

And yes, college marketing would suffer.

Sad to say, but you're right. By all measures, I'd be a freakin' moron measured against the standards of a College graduate from even 50 years ago. Today, I'm generally considered above average. It's not that I'm that smart or hard-working (I'm not) it's just that so many folks are dumber and lazier.

193 DesertSage  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:30:11pm

re: #181 Thanos

I think you have Sarah confused with Bobby? :P

/Bobby?

194 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:30:22pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Religion of pedophiles.....
The way you Mecca me feel

Heh.

Shmuley Boteach is deeply disappointed, but will attempt to convince everybody that he is not really pissed.

195 theparson  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:30:23pm

I think these posts are running 3 to 1 off topic.

196 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:30:42pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Did the gloved one pay taxes on that gift? Inquiring minds want to know.

197 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:30:58pm

re: #195 theparson

I think these posts are running 3 to 1 off topic.

3 to 1? I like those odds.

198 snowcrash  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:31:29pm

re: #166 HoosierHoops
Lure him to you with a treat and then do something fun with him like "tug rope" or go for a walk. He will soon forget the bad association.

199 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:31:31pm
200 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:31:39pm

re: #185 Perplexed

The dog will crap somewhere in your house as revenge. Get him some of those green chlorophyll doggie treats. Dog's fight over them.


Winston is playing the Victim card quite nicely..he won't won't eat any of his favorite treats and has the most pitiful cute look in his eyes...
I've never had a dog or pet before..so he maybe spoiled..

201 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:32:35pm

re: #200 HoosierHoops

Winston is playing the Victim card quite nicely..he won't won't eat any of his favorite treats and has the most pitiful cute look in his eyes...
I've never had a dog or pet before..so he maybe spoiled..

Your dog is name after...?

202 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:32:42pm

re: #199 buzzsawmonkey

I'd rather have Michael Jackson convert to Islam than pretend to convert to Judaism.

Oh, that whole Kabbalah thing. His "conversion" would be about all that would be required to officially make it the single most tiresome cult since the EST.

203 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:32:49pm

re: #200 HoosierHoops

Yep. You are in for either a pile of crap or a chewed up article of clothing. A pissed dog does get his revenge.

204 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:32:54pm

re: #200 HoosierHoops

Winston is playing the Victim card quite nicely..he won't won't eat any of his favorite treats and has the most pitiful cute look in his eyes...
I've never had a dog or pet before..so he maybe spoiled..

Spoiled, you got that right. Plus he is trying to see if you are an easy mark for sympathy.

205 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:33:01pm
206 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:33:27pm

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

You've never had a dog before? They are a pain in the ass, and absolutely wonderful.

Good practice if you're ever thinking of getting married and having kids.

207 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:34:05pm
Not allowing debate over untested and unproven theories “seems out of place in a free society” and is reminiscent of book-burning in Nazi Germany, he said.

Bullshit.
Evolution is neither an untested nor an unproven theory.
And Nazi bookburnings were part of an anti-scientific, anti-Semitic and anti-intellectual movement. These Nazi tactics have more in common with the dogmatic ultra-religious creationist movement than the efforts to keep religion out of the science class.

208 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:34:18pm
209 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:34:29pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

MICHAEL JACKSON has become a Muslim — and changed his name to MIKAEEL.

Will he need to be escorted if he leaves his home?

210 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:34:35pm

re: #199 buzzsawmonkey

I'd rather have Michael Jackson convert to Islam than pretend to convert to Judaism.

I'm just hoping that maybe now Shmuley will stop making excuses for him(it?)

211 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:34:58pm

re: #208 buzzsawmonkey

It is, however, my understanding that neither wives nor children shed as much.

True, they don't lose hair, but the male's hairloss compensates.

212 Spiny Norman  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:35:11pm

re: #190 logboy

By Blamo!

Its fine, but if anyone starts singing "I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok..." I'll be forced to kick your ass.

Wot?

213 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #208 buzzsawmonkey

It is, however, my understanding that neither wives nor children shed as much.

You never met my ex ;)

214 Lincolntf  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:35:43pm

Mocking the Religious beliefs of people who differ from the "mainstream" should be beneath all of us.
Creationist activists should be treated much like the GBLT activists are treated. Politely ignored.

215 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:35:46pm

re: #208 buzzsawmonkey

It is, however, my understanding that neither wives nor children shed as much.

Yes, and remember that dogs do not like you running a vacuum cleaner nozzle over them in and effort to get the shed hairs at the source.

216 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:36:34pm

re: #214 Lincolntf

Mocking the Religious beliefs of people who differ from the "mainstream" should be beneath all of us.
Creationist activists should be treated much like the GBLT activists are treated. Politely ignored.

Now, that's some sound advice right there. Very good.

217 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:36:52pm

re: #215 Perplexed

Yes, and remember that dogs do not like you running a vacuum cleaner nozzle over them in and effort to get the shed hairs at the source.

But some kids don't mind at all.

218 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:36:55pm

re: #209 solomonpanting

Will he need to be escorted if he leaves his home?

No, but he just condemned his daughter to needing one. [spits]

219 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:37:19pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Religion of pedophiles.....
The way you Mecca me feel

Heh.

Well, I remember when he was disfellowshipped from the Organization (Jehovah's Witnesses). I was a member at the time and it was a shock since Brooklyn kept his membership a secret to start with.

220 notutopia  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:37:27pm

re: #123 FurryOldGuyJeans
I had to memorize:
30 days has Sept., April, June, and Nov, All the rest have 31,
except leap year, Feb has 29.
God bless those Nuns!

221 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:37:30pm

re: #217 Guanxi88

Little boys would enjoy it.

222 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:37:30pm

re: #201 Walter L. Newton

Your dog is name after...?

Hi Walter..Winston was living for a year in a barn in Indiana..A close friend rescued him...
Maybe they named him after their favorite cigarette..
But I tend to think he was named after one of the bravest leaders of the 20th Century..maybe a cigar...
/

223 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:38:16pm

re: #200 HoosierHoops

Winston is playing the Victim card quite nicely..he won't won't eat any of his favorite treats and has the most pitiful cute look in his eyes...
I've never had a dog or pet before..so he maybe spoiled..

My 2-year-old granddaughter is visiting right now. I said I would spoil her rotten but this afternoon she had a full meltdown in Walmart.

224 theparson  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:38:32pm

re: #207 Spare O'Lake

Bullshit.
Evolution is neither an untested nor an unproven theory.
And Nazi bookburnings were part of an anti-scientific, anti-Semitic and anti-intellectual movement. These Nazi tactics have more in common with the dogmatic ultra-religious creationist movement than the efforts to keep religion out of the science class.

Reckless hyperbole or provable fact?

225 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:38:44pm

re: #214 Lincolntf

Mocking the Religious beliefs of people who differ from the "mainstream" should be beneath all of us.
Creationist activists should be treated much like the GBLT activists are treated. Politely ignored.

Not if public educational materials are being corrupted.

226 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:39:29pm

re: #225 solomonpanting

Not if public educational materials are being corrupted.

Well, obviously, if folks start mucking about with the intellectual infrastructure, then you have to intervene. But otherwise, maybe just ignore them.

227 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:40:06pm

re: #162 Perplexed

So why aren't teachers teaching the way they taught 100 years ago? I believe it is due to mission creep. Teach a person like they did 100 years ago and college would be pretty much unnecessary for most people. Colleges would see a drop in enrollments and that hurts the pocketbook.

Mission creep, and the pernicious effect of Political Correctness and Leftism and More...

Look, Jesus of Nazareth voiced 3 promises in response to direct questions about the Coming of one like unto the Son of Man, and those 3 promises CAN BE SEEN (don't have to be, but CAN be seen) to have all come to completion in the year we now call 1844 or 1260, depending on calendar used.

But the LEADERS, our spiritual-social guides who'd served us so long and so faithfully for the previous 6,000 years of written history, did NOT recognize the One Who came May 23, 1844... instead choosing to martyr Him July 9, 1850, in order to 'prove' He was not the al-Qaim, the Point round which ALL the Prophets of the past revolve...

If, for the sake of discussion, He IS the One promised by Jesus, Ezekiel, Muhammad, Buddha, Habbakuk and others, IF (big if) He is the definition of what is relevant to THIS Day and THIS age, then those ecclesiastics and ecclesiastical organizations that refuse to acknowledge and align themselves with what He brings (the Oneness of Humankind, independent investigation of reality, rational soul, individual responsibility, the equality of men & women...) RELEGATE THEMSELVES to ever more marginalization of their thought, beliefs and attitudes.

If He is NOT Who He says He is, He is of no consequence and will quickly fade into oblivion, rather than have His resting-place pictured on France's recent air-postage stamp commemorating the inaugural service between France and Israel...

Teachers have 'gone wobbly' on us BECAUSE it takes courage and insight to teach reality today, especially when so many (leftists, Democrats, Marxists) have hidden agendas bolstered by obfuscation, dissembling, lying and falsehood.

228 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:40:18pm
229 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:40:35pm

re: #223 Alouette

*Shudder*

People wonder why I don't have kids; it's because of moments like that.

At least my mom could hiss, "Don't make a scene!" and I'd shut up.

230 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:40:48pm
231 Steve Rogers  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:41:30pm

First they called it "Creationism." Then that changed the term to "Creation Science." Then that changed that to "Intelligent Design." Then they try not to mention that, but instead use the phrase, "Teach the controversy" (even though there is no controversy in the scientific community).

Dare I say it...

The name of their claim keeps on...evolving!

232 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:41:41pm

re: #220 notutopia

I had to memorize:
30 days has Sept., April, June, and Nov, All the rest have 31,
except leap year, Feb has 29.
God bless those Nuns!

Stick your hands together and make a fist with each. Counting from Left to right on each knuckle and "valley" between the knuckles:

A knuckle has 31 days, a "valley" is 30 or less (February).

I found it easier to remember that all I needed to know how many days a month had was to make a fist with each hand. ;)

233 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:41:43pm

re: #213 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #208 buzzsawmonkey
It is, however, my understanding that neither wives nor children shed as much.
You never met my ex ;)

Did she get the vacuum cleaner?

234 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:42:29pm

re: #214 Lincolntf

Mocking the Religious beliefs of people who differ from the "mainstream" should be beneath all of us.
Creationist activists should be treated much like the GBLT activists are treated. Politely ignored.

When they are kept in the confines of their own spheres (home / private associations etc) I would agree, but both groups have a problem with just keeping them there. They tend to spill out intentionally... and then people who just want to get on with life are forced to make decisions on what they normally wouldn't even think are questions.

235 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:42:38pm

re: #228 taxfreekiller

mandy manners

62,229 post

19580 + karma

31.4% postive karma feed back

forget about it tfk..
She's already got an agent..and a manager
/

236 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:42:54pm

re: #233 Spare O'Lake

Did she get the vacuum cleaner?

I barely was able to keep the clothes I was wearing.

237 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:43:34pm

re: #227 Karridine

Bahai?

238 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:43:35pm
239 Lincolntf  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:43:36pm

re: #225 solomonpanting

Despite all my searching, I've yet to find one single public school system that teaches Creationism. Find one for me and I'll agree it should be stopped. But, using the artificial shibboleth of crazy dino-denying Christian right-wingers to justify muzzling a particular Religious denomination just doesn't pass my smell test.
I am truly concerned about the horrid state of public education, but "Creationism" is pretty close to the bottom of the list of REAL problems.

240 NY Nana  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:44:27pm

re: #21 stevieray

Doesn't Luton already have enough trouble? ;)

241 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:44:31pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

Bingo.

242 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:44:59pm

re: #237 Guanxi88

Respectfully, not here.

243 Right mind left  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:45:23pm

Part of power and control comes from disinformation and control of knowledge.

The world is flat was a theory that caused the dissenters to be in mortal danger, or shunned at best.

We have an essential responsibility to ensure the quality of curriculum that is being taught provides the sparks of interest to fuel bright minds into research and development for future technology. This is put at risk when these kinds of movements get any ground. The beginning of a brain drain as has been seen throughout history...

Keep up the fight - disseminate the evidence, maintain the integrity of what is taught. The teachers have become more and more liberal, more and more open to demanding less of the students and thus we are having a significant erosion in the capabilities of our young graduates.

One of the most exciting things in the world to see is the light bulb going off in someone who has an epiphany - and wants more. It leads to greatness. This can't be stifled!

244 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:45:31pm

re: #227 Karridine

Teachers have 'gone wobbly' on us BECAUSE it takes courage and insight to teach reality today, especially when so many (leftists, Democrats, Marxists) have hidden agendas bolstered by obfuscation, dissembling, lying and falsehood.

NEA Teachers Have Become Re-Educators

/that's the clear and present danger to education in this country

245 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:45:55pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

Despite all my searching, I've yet to find one single public school system that teaches Creationism. Find one for me and I'll agree it should be stopped. But, using the artificial shibboleth of crazy dino-denying Christian right-wingers to justify muzzling a particular Religious denomination just doesn't pass my smell test.
I am truly concerned about the horrid state of public education, but "Creationism" is pretty close to the bottom of the list of REAL problems.

Which denomination? I thought we were talking about the effort to diminish the Almighty by having people who claim to follow Him run around saying demonstrably false things about geology, biology, genetics, history, and then to have these slurs against the Almighty inserted into the curriculum of public schools.

246 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:46:05pm

re: #227 Karridine

Um, skip a bit, brother.

247 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:46:13pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

Islamic terrorism was not considered a major problem until 9/11/01 either.

248 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:46:17pm

re: #242 Karridine

Not a problem, just asking.

249 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:46:23pm

re: #238 taxfreekiller

tfk

24,096 post
8,394 + karmas
34.8% positive karma feed bag

/pretty amazing if you think about it

250 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:47:03pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

muzzling a particular Religious denomination

Are you impling they're being muzzled everywhere, or only in the science class?

251 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:47:14pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

Despite all my searching, I've yet to find one single public school system that teaches Creationism. Find one for me and I'll agree it should be stopped. But, using the artificial shibboleth of crazy dino-denying Christian right-wingers to justify muzzling a particular Religious denomination just doesn't pass my smell test.
I am truly concerned about the horrid state of public education, but "Creationism" is pretty close to the bottom of the list of REAL problems.

So, you are not concerned with this issue unless it starts happening in a school?

252 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:47:27pm

re: #237 Guanxi88

The concept of relevance was what I sought to develop.

IF 'equality of men and women' IS a viable, required attitudinal reality in THIS Day, then people and organizations who ignore it or work to subjugate women are doomed to marginalization and irrelevancy.

253 Outrider  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:47:32pm

re: #222 HoosierHoops

Hi Walter..Winston was living for a year in a barn in Indiana..A close friend rescued him...
Maybe they named him after their favorite cigarette..
But I tend to think he was named after one of the bravest leaders of the 20th Century..maybe a cigar...
/

I have a nephew named Winston. knowing his father, I can guarantee he is named after the cigarette. I doubt his father was even aware England existed, much less Winston Churchill.

254 BignJames  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:47:52pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

What particular denomination is being muzzled?

255 gmsc  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:00pm

re: #238 taxfreekiller

tfk

24,096 post
8,394 + karmas
34.8% positive karma feed bag

If this is how we're doing it, here's mine:

2,671 posts
2,219 karma points
83.08% positive karma feed back

256 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:05pm

Evolution vs creationism.........the least of your problems

Obama gives you Eric Holder as your new AG.

(did I hear the toilet flush, yet again?)

257 Silhouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:08pm

I'm not seeing the karma percentages (karma/comments) when clicking the football - just the count.

Do we have to do the math ourselves?

258 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:27pm

re: #251 Walter L. Newton

So, you are not concerned with this issue unless it starts happening in a school?

Worked for Clinton regarding Islamic Terrorism and attack on American interests worldwide.

259 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:36pm

re: #247 FurryOldGuyJeans

Islamic terrorism was not considered a major problem until 9/11/01 either.

Even now... most people have taken Lincolntf's advice he gives about the 'creationists' and they apply it to Islams terrorist spawn...and 'politely ignore' them...

/Hey, it didn't happen to anyone in my family...

260 Tom on the rez  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:41pm

Thank you, MandyManners, for that Rush fix. Maybe it's time for a few Rush CDs. My kids always steal my good ones. Plus, my eight-tracks are starting to squeak.

261 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:45pm

re: #252 Karridine

The concept of relevance was what I sought to develop.

IF 'equality of men and women' IS a viable, required attitudinal reality in THIS Day, then people and organizations who ignore it or work to subjugate women are doomed to marginalization and irrelevancy.

True enough, as we see every day with our own eyes.

262 Racer X  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:56pm

Islam is not a religion.

It is a cult that desires total domination of a society by taking over the government. Preying on spirituality is a means to that end.

263 SpaceJesus  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:48:58pm

re: #114 Cutty Sark

Did someone equate evolution with nazis ?

You DID hear it before as nazi scientists equated what the Reich was doing , with "survival of the fittest ", not really evolution but an offshoot like Natural Adaption . But it all boiled down to nihilism and superiority of a particular strain of the white race .
Hey wait a minute !

Isn't Texas a Republican State .

I'll bet that entourage of creationists hitting the Texas school system are all Republicans .

It makes for an interesting fight , but parents should know , their kids have well working bullshit detectors .
What everyone here is worrying about , has already happened , via Mom & Dad .....much more influential than a school book . LOL....one need only look at the State of Utah ! Who are we kidding ?

Besides , the muslims got one leg up on everyone , the Saudis pay for schools books AND DISTRIBUTED TO MUSLIM SCHOOL IN THIS COUNTRY ...THE USA .

They dont fight court battles , and they by-pass all the riga-morole, they simply sneak them in , use them , and when they get busted , they promise to revise them , and guess what ? They dont .

I would be more concerned regarding the teaching of hatred of all that is NON-MUSLIM , giving religious license to JIHAD , rationalizing and thereby justifying the ultimate end of the teaching of hatred .....VIOLENCE .
Such books are already in use , not widely but certainly across this country , Virginia , New York and D.C. to name a few . And in Virginia of all places right in Jerry Falwells backyard .

When I see creationists blowing up airliners , pirating ships , killing innocents , and trying to rule the world by their own narrow standards , then I'll consider worrying about them .

But take heart , it seems many forget , we have a Supreme Court , and we all are entitled to Due Process.....so if the good people of Texas are willing to fight what is being foisted on them .....then The Supreme Court will have the final word , and any "book " they attempt to float , will remain on ice , until the court decides .


However , keep in mind at all times , the Saudi Books and the schools that use them , disrespect , even despise with contempt- American Law when it comes to the tenets of their ideology , and simply ignore .
And believe it , because it's happening right now .

congratulations, this is perhaps the stupidest thing ever written on the internet.

264 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:49:15pm

re: #254 BignJames

What particular denomination is being muzzled?

The Intelligent Design Denomination, silly. ;)

265 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:49:40pm

re: #253 Outrider

I have a nephew named Winston. knowing his father, I can guarantee he is named after the cigarette. I doubt his father was even aware England existed, much less Winston Churchill.

Well, I had a wolf spider (for about a week) who I called Winston, named after the principle character in the book 1984.

266 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:49:42pm

re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans

Worked for Clinton regarding Islamic Terrorism and attack on American interests worldwide.

Was in up past his eyeballs in the Ellian Gonzales involuntary repatriation to Cuba.

267 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:49:51pm

Why does it seam like I am looking at living in the Peoples Republic of North America?

Is there any group of terrorist that are NOT in the Democratic (Socialist)Party?

268 Karridine  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:50:01pm

re: #244 Killian Bundy

NEA Teachers Have Become Re-Educators

/that's the clear and present danger to education in this country

Sir, YES SIR!

I concur yr analysis, Killian!

"Welcome, children, to 47th Street Re-Education Center! We'll get along just fine if you DO AS WE SAY."

269 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:50:01pm
270 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:50:11pm

re: #249 Killian Bundy

/pretty amazing if you think about it

maybe his guy should meet my guy and do lunch..
/I feel bad now because there have been so many great posts here..and i always seem to forget to upding them..my bad

271 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:50:24pm

re: #264 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Intelligent Design Denomination, silly. ;)

But, I thought ID was scientific; nobody told me it was religious or even deistic.

272 Silhouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:50:32pm

re: #251 Walter L. Newton

So, you are not concerned with this issue unless it starts happening in a school?

I thought that was the point.

That no one is attacking if their neighbor freely chooses to believe that God created the heavens and the earth. They just care when it is taught in the public school.

273 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:50:39pm

re: #224 theparson

Reckless hyperbole or provable fact?

Your comment is ironic.
I was calling out Kramer the Creationist supporter on his own stupid analogy, criticism of which by Creationists was sadly lacking. But then again, Creationists obviously don't like it when it is their ox that is being gored.

274 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:51:08pm

re: #263 SpaceJesus

I disagree. There are a myriad of valid points. Not that I agree with all of them..but there are valid points in there.

275 Clemente  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:51:09pm

buzzsawmonkey = karmic deity:

29579/29062

Wow.

276 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:51:10pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

Well, I had a wolf spider (for about a week) who I called Winston, named after the principle character in the book 1984.

Spider....1984.....ROFL ;)

277 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:51:35pm

re: #257 Silhouette

I'm not seeing the karma percentages (karma/comments) when clicking the football - just the count.

Do we have to do the math ourselves?

Yes. If you want to.
But why?

278 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:51:49pm

13.6% positive Karma.

I think whoever noticed that older lizards have lower karma than younger was correct. The formula appears to be dividing by pre-registration comments as well.

(Or do I really suck that badly?)

279 Thanos  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:51:57pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

Despite all my searching, I've yet to find one single public school system that teaches Creationism. Find one for me and I'll agree it should be stopped. But, using the artificial shibboleth of crazy dino-denying Christian right-wingers to justify muzzling a particular Religious denomination just doesn't pass my smell test.
I am truly concerned about the horrid state of public education, but "Creationism" is pretty close to the bottom of the list of REAL problems.

You really ought to write a letter about it to the Discovery institute then since they spend so much money, resource, and time on this divisive bullshit.

280 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:52:04pm

re: #262 Racer X

Islam is not a religion.

It is a cult that desires total domination of a society by taking over the government. Preying on spirituality is a means to that end.

Beg to differ, Islam is a religion, just a false one.

281 Lincolntf  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:52:23pm

re: #245 Guanxi88
Perhaps you perceive that I generalized too generally. I know that not everyone who is on the anti-creationism bandwagon is insulting about it.
There were lots of posts that I didn't read before I posted my response.

282 gmsc  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:52:43pm

re: #257 Silhouette

I'm not seeing the karma percentages (karma/comments) when clicking the football - just the count.

Do we have to do the math ourselves?

Yep - to get the percentage, just divide karma by the number of posts, and then multiply that answer by 100.

283 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:52:47pm

re: #280 A Kiwi Infidel

Beg to differ, Islam is a religion, just a false one.

As well is Marxism. Obamaism is just taking off.

284 Lincolntf  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:52:51pm

re: #247 FurryOldGuyJeans

That's just insane.

285 SpaceJesus  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:00pm

re: #274 Oh no...Sand People!

I disagree. There are a myriad of valid points. Not that I agree with all of them..but there are valid points in there.


where are they? are they hiding behind that giant wall of incoherent nonsense?

286 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:04pm

re: #263 SpaceJesus

congratulations, this is perhaps the stupidest thing ever written on the internet.

Well, no, actually quoting it in the entirety just to add one line has to top that!

287 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:18pm

re: #268 Karridine

Sir, YES SIR!

I concur yr analysis, Killian!

"Welcome, children, to 47th Street Re-Education Center! We'll get along just fine if you DO AS WE SAY."

/the NEA is arguably a much worse problem than the UAW

288 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:27pm

re: #272 Silhouette

I thought that was the point.

That no one is attacking if their neighbor freely chooses to believe that God created the heavens and the earth. They just care when it is taught in the public school.

It sounded to me that the poster wasn't interested if someone was trying to get creationism taught in schools, only would be worried about it AFTER it got in there. That's the way I took the comment. And reading above, a number of other Lizards took it the same way.

289 solomonpanting  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:27pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

Despite all my searching, I've yet to find one single public school system that teaches Creationism. Find one for me and I'll agree it should be stopped. But, using the artificial shibboleth of crazy dino-denying Christian right-wingers to justify muzzling a particular Religious denomination just doesn't pass my smell test.
I am truly concerned about the horrid state of public education, but "Creationism" is pretty close to the bottom of the list of REAL problems.


For a quick view of Recent developments in state education programs, check here.
Scroll down a bit.

290 Right mind left  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:43pm

re: #286 Dar ul Harb

Well, no, actually quoting it in the entirety just to add one line has to top that!

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...

291 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:53:48pm

re: #282 gmsc

Math geek....just get out that calculator. ;)

292 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:54:09pm

re: #278 Dar ul Harb

](Or do I really suck that badly?)

Hey! Don't answer that!

(too late)

293 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:54:23pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

Well, I had a wolf spider (for about a week) who I called Winston, named after the principle character in the book 1984.


I, too, had a wolf spider as a kid, which promptly laid eggs and filled my bedroom with a zillion young.

My mother was less than impressed.

294 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:54:26pm

re: #287 Killian Bundy

/the NEA is arguably a much worse problem than the UAW

The NEA, when history is written, will be found to have been a corrupting influence on several generations of Americans.

295 NY Nana  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:54:43pm

re: #278 Dar ul Harb

Is this the karma of which you speak?

296 theparson  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:54:55pm

re: #273 Spare O'Lake

Your comment is ironic.
I was calling out Kramer the Creationist supporter on his own stupid analogy, criticism of which by Creationists was sadly lacking. But then again, Creationists obviously don't like it when it is their ox that is being gored.

Either support your allegation or retract it.

297 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:55:03pm

re: #281 Lincolntf

Perhaps you perceive that I generalized too generally. I know that not everyone who is on the anti-creationism bandwagon is insulting about it.
There were lots of posts that I didn't read before I posted my response.

That's a good point. Since I'd used a fairly broadish brush myself earlier in this thread, I admit that there are times when it helps to "amplify" or enlarge a thing to make it easier to see and deal with.

Anywho, just my thoughts, but I don't perceive that most folks who are against this stuff getting into the curriculum are anti-religious or bigots; I think, though, that there's a lot of animosity and projection from all sides, which feeds into the lunatic intensity the various factions can bring to bear on what should be a comparatively boring subject.

298 Silhouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:55:16pm

re: #277 reine.de.tout

Yes. If you want to.
But why?

No reason other than I saw tfk was posting the percentages, so I clicked a random football to see the new "percentage" feature, but it wasn't there. So I wondered if I just didn't see it, or if it wasn't there at all.

I can't imagine checking it. I don't even know my own comment count.

299 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:55:39pm

re: #268 Karridine

Sir, YES SIR!

I concur yr analysis, Killian!

"Welcome, children, to 47th Street Re-Education Center! We'll get along just fine if you DO AS WE SAY."

Concur. Tyrants in Schoolmarm's cloths.

300 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:55:48pm

re: #272 Silhouette

I thought that was the point.

That no one is attacking if their neighbor freely chooses to believe that God created the heavens and the earth. They just care when it is taught in the public school.

Once it gets taught in school, even once, the war is already over and lost.

301 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:55:52pm

re: #276 FurryOldGuyJeans

Spider....1984.....ROFL ;)

true dat... really.

302 Outrider  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:56:20pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

Well, I had a wolf spider (for about a week) who I called Winston, named after the principle character in the book 1984.

Walter, I will slap gurantee this brother in law of mine never ~even~ heard of 1984 the book.

Them Wolf spiders are poisonous aren't they?

303 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:56:43pm

re: #270 HoosierHoops

maybe his guy should meet my guy and do lunch..
/I feel bad now because there have been so many great posts here..and i always seem to forget to upding them..my bad

/TFK's been on a roll ever since he was walked back from the brink a couple times for using a derogatory term for Chinese, sometimes his comments are even lucid

304 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:56:43pm

re: #121 Guanxi88

Fair point, but, speaking for myself, I don't think a theocratic state is a likely result of sneaking this creationsit/I.D. stuff into the curriculum. Rather, I think the risk is further dilution of the value of a public education.

It's not a fair point at all, in any way what he said.

305 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:56:58pm

re: #285 SpaceJesus

where are they? are they hiding behind that giant wall of incoherent nonsense?

The idea that Islam and the Saudis are flaunting laws, and are overtly teaching an agenda that is counter productive to freedom and civilization. Also, you can make out the inklings of 'what good is the law' when the bad guys don't follow it and no accountability is in place for those who don't. Kind of just punishes the good guys.

I agree with those points.

/now the rest...well...

306 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:56:59pm

re: #262 Racer X

Islam is not a religion.
It is a cult that desires total domination of a society by taking over the government. Preying on spirituality is a means to that end.

It is indeed a religion - one that is sadly in need of a major overhaul.
There is no better argument for keeping religion out of our public schools than Islam.

307 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:57:12pm

re: #300 FurryOldGuyJeans

Once it gets taught in school, even once, the war is already over and lost.

True, the whole camel's nose in the tent. (And wipe that grin off your face and get your mind out of the gutter.)

308 Right mind left  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:57:36pm

re: #298 Silhouette

No reason other than I saw tfk was posting the percentages, so I clicked a random football to see the new "percentage" feature, but it wasn't there. So I wondered if I just didn't see it, or if it wasn't there at all.

I can't imagine checking it. I don't even know my own comment count.

You are over 50% karma to comment ratio (over 7k karma and over 14k comments) ... they like you!

309 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:58:04pm

re: #293 A Kiwi Infidel

I, too, had a wolf spider as a kid, which promptly laid eggs and filled my bedroom with a zillion young.

My mother was less than impressed.

I only had mine for a week. I had it in a jar, with a lid, with air holes in the lid. I put a grasshopper in the jar with it. Boy, they didn't like each other. Not a bit. They had a fight. The spider won. Did you know a grasshopper can be sucked dry by a wolf spider. But the close in battle must have been too much for the spider, because it died a few hours later.

310 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:58:41pm

re: #272 Silhouette

I thought that was the point.
That no one is attacking if their neighbor freely chooses to believe that God created the heavens and the earth. They just care when it is taught in the public school.

It is precisely the point, and don't let him tell you otherwise.

311 rawmuse  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:58:44pm

rawmuse
number of comments 6,976
karma = 6,645

somebody loves me!

312 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:58:45pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

true dat... really.

I am a lot less imaginative...I just had a hyperactive cat I called Joule.

313 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:58:49pm

re: #304 Sharmuta

It's not a fair point at all, in any way what he said.

Trying to talk the guy down off the ledge; not agreeing, but rather acknowledging what he said to get him to see a part of what I had to say.

314 BignJames  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:58:58pm

re: #302 Outrider

All spiders are poisonous.

315 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:59:40pm

re: #306 Spare O'Lake

It is indeed a religion - one that is sadly in need of a major overhaul.
There is no better argument for keeping religion out of our public schools than Islam.

Yet that is the one that the 'left' is all goo goo over and stands the best chance of being crammed into the curriculum...

316 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 6:59:54pm

re: #302 Outrider

Walter, I will slap gurantee this brother in law of mine never ~even~ heard of 1984 the book.

Them Wolf spiders are poisonous aren't they?

Er, no, I don't think so. As I had always been told, all spiders bite, and all spider bites are not really good for you, because you can get some nasty germs from the spider that moves into an open bite, but generally, wolf spiders are rather docile. Except if you put a grasshopper in the jar with it.

317 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:00:11pm

re: #315 Oh no...Sand People!

Yet that is the one that the 'left' is all goo goo over and stands the best chance of being crammed into the curriculum...

Already is too late.

318 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:00:12pm

re: #298 Silhouette

No reason other than I saw tfk was posting the percentages, so I clicked a random football to see the new "percentage" feature, but it wasn't there. So I wondered if I just didn't see it, or if it wasn't there at all.

I can't imagine checking it. I don't even know my own comment count.

Your comment count is there too, along with your Karma and your "registration" number.
I'm just happy to be here and to have a few plusses.
So many smart people - - -

319 3 wood  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:00:17pm

In market news the futures are up about 1% so far tonight.

The Nikkei is down 2.2% and the Hang Seng is down 2.6% but probably more as a reaction to the US markets tanking today than anything else.

Citigroup is starting preliminary talks of selling out.

And the NYT lost almost 10% today with stock prices dropping to $5.72

320 outsidephilly  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:00:46pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

I only had mine for a week. I had it in a jar, with a lid, with air holes in the lid. I put a grasshopper in the jar with it. Boy, they didn't like each other. Not a bit. They had a fight. The spider won. Did you know a grasshopper can be sucked dry by a wolf spider. But the close in battle must have been too much for the spider, because it died a few hours later.

This is what needs to be taught in schools!
I never knew a grasshopper could be sucked dry by a wolf spider, nope, never knew that . . . .

321 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:00:53pm

re: #307 Guanxi88

True, the whole camel's nose in the tent. (And wipe that grin off your face and get your mind out of the gutter.)

o_O

322 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:13pm

re: #315 Oh no...Sand People!

Yet that is the one that the 'left' is all goo goo over and stands the best chance of being crammed into the curriculum...

You think so? I think some sort of ersatz paganism or Nature-worship, mediated by the state as Pontifex maximus, seems more their speed.

323 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:19pm

re: #312 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am a lot less imaginative...I just had a hyperactive cat I called Joule.

I couldn't see a cat on that page?

324 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:42pm

re: #319 3 wood

In market news the futures are up about 1% so far tonight.

The Nikkei is down 2.2% and the Hang Seng is down 2.6% but probably more as a reaction to the US markets tanking today than anything else.

Citigroup is starting preliminary talks of selling out.

And the NYT lost almost 10% today with stock prices dropping to $5.72

Dead cat bounce tomorrow for the Dow?

325 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:43pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

1984? the book? I don't recall a movie..was there one?
must have been a crappy book..
/

326 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:50pm

Palin doesn't care about Thanksgiving suffering.......
The Turkey doesn't realize turkeys are dying behind her!

Heh.

327 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:54pm

re: #319 3 wood

In market news the futures are up about 1% so far tonight.

The Nikkei is down 2.2% and the Hang Seng is down 2.6% but probably more as a reaction to the US markets tanking today than anything else.

Citigroup is starting preliminary talks of selling out.

And the NYT lost almost 10% today with stock prices dropping to $5.72

NYT down even more...at least there is a Lil Pinch of good news once in a while...

328 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:01:56pm

re: #319 3 wood

In market news the futures are up about 1% so far tonight.

The Nikkei is down 2.2% and the Hang Seng is down 2.6% but probably more as a reaction to the US markets tanking today than anything else.

Citigroup is starting preliminary talks of selling out.

And the NYT lost almost 10% today with stock prices dropping to $5.72

Three pieces of good news there. Let the Dow have an up day tomorrow and let the NYT stock price fall to $0.

329 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:02:05pm
330 SpaceJesus  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:02:23pm

re: #305 Oh no...Sand People!

The idea that Islam and the Saudis are flaunting laws, and are overtly teaching an agenda that is counter productive to freedom and civilization. Also, you can make out the inklings of 'what good is the law' when the bad guys don't follow it and no accountability is in place for those who don't. Kind of just punishes the good guys.

I agree with those points.

/now the rest...well...

they're allowed to do whatever they want in their private schools.

331 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:03:06pm

re: #319 3 wood

And the NYT lost almost 10% today with stock prices dropping to $5.72

Pretty soon they can start giving away their stock free with the paper.

Check Sunday's circular for a special two-for-one offer!

332 NY Nana  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:03:18pm

re: #319 3 wood

And the NYT lost almost 10% today with stock prices dropping to $5.72

That is the only good news in all of that!

333 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:03:22pm

re: #311 rawmuse

Just in case you didn't catch the answer last thread

/trumpets come in the third measure and riff on 5,5,5,3

334 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:03:26pm

re: #322 Guanxi88

You think so? I think some sort of ersatz paganism or Nature-worship, mediated by the state as Pontifex maximus, seems more their speed.

As long as there's no coherent theology, you may be right.

Sort of a wishy-washy gaia worship. Heaven knows what "earth science" would look like, then.

335 Outrider  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:03:30pm

re: #312 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am a lot less imaginative...I just had a hyperactive cat I called Joule.

even less imagination. i had a terror of a hound dog and named her Cujo. Over 16 years, she lived up to her name.

336 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:03:31pm

re: #322 Guanxi88

You think so? I think some sort of ersatz paganism or Nature-worship, mediated by the state as Pontifex maximus, seems more their speed.

I can agree with the 'Nature-worship'... Global Warming and the purgatory penance payout of Carbon Offset Credits...

337 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:07pm

re: #334 Dianna

As long as there's no coherent theology, you may be right.

Sort of a wishy-washy gaia worship. Heaven knows what "earth science" would look like, then.

Ah, trust me, no coherent anything. That's what's great about this sort of thing.

338 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:08pm

re: #329 ploome hineni

you still here?

Yes? What's up?

I'm writing, so I'm sort of in and out.

339 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:17pm

re: #313 Guanxi88

Trying to talk the guy down off the ledge; not agreeing, but rather acknowledging what he said to get him to see a part of what I had to say.

Duly noted that you lie to people to get them to see you point. Thanks.

340 wolfie  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:26pm

The NEA is the dung-dripping, booger-eating spawn of of the Prince of Death and Darkness.
Okay, okay. Perhaps I could have found a better way to phrase that but I stand by the basic premise.

341 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:32pm

re: #330 SpaceJesus

they're allowed to do whatever they want in their private schools.

Agreed. As long as it stays in their private schools.

342 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:43pm

re: #320 outsidephilly

This is what needs to be taught in schools! I never knew a grasshopper could be sucked dry by a wolf spider, nope, never knew that . . . .

Oh come on. In schools? Hell, that would be considered violent and I don't know... teaching kids that animals in the wild have natural enemies and sometimes fight and kill. No, can't have that. All spiders and grasshoppers live in rivers of chocolate and in a place where it rains gumdrops all day long.

You scared me, I had to go to my happy place.

343 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:04:49pm

re: #330 SpaceJesus

they're allowed to do whatever they want in their private schools.

It's happening in PUBLIC schools. Seems that the only freedom from religion is if it is Judeo-Christian based. Islam gets a pass in many of our public school districts. Charles has posted on this issue in the past.

344 NY Nana  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:05:00pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Can you please post a kos alert before I go dumpster diving without my hazmat suit? Please? ;)

Feh.

345 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:05:18pm

re: #339 Sharmuta

Duly noted that you lie to people to get them to see you point. Thanks.

Ah come on, that's not a terribly generous way to put it, now is it? So one engages in a little judo, is this so wrong?

346 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:05:18pm
347 OldLineTexan  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:05:19pm

re: #334 Dianna

As long as there's no coherent theology, you may be right.

Sort of a wishy-washy gaia worship. Heaven knows what "earth science" would look like, then.

global warming

348 ArmyWife  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:05:33pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Wolf spiders are fairly harmless save for the heart stoppage they may cause. Big Bad SF Army guy is TERRIFIED of spiders. One day, long ago, he was helping a friend put insulation under their mobile home in Texas. He is under there putting in that insulation, fine as you please. Then we hear this screaming line of things not fit to publish on this site; he scootches out from under the trailer at the speed of light with this GIANT wolf spider on his chest. It had dropped down on him! They are all giant, by the way. And hairy.

349 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:05:40pm

re: #341 Oh no...Sand People!

Agreed. As long as it stays in their private schools.

Their AP science courses must be interesting.

350 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:01pm

re: #325 HoosierHoops

1984? the book? I don't recall a movie..was there one?
must have been a crappy book..
/

Ha...

2 movies and twice as a made for TV version for the BBC.

351 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:15pm

re: #323 Walter L. Newton

I couldn't see a cat on that page?

No, I just referenced that wiki page to illustrate why I chose the name.

Sadly, joule was a cat I had before I joined the Navy, and because of my divorce everything I owned was lost to my ex, pictures and literally everything. I barely was allowed to keep the clothes I was wearing.

Here are some photos of cats I have had since the divorce, with the short-haired tabby being my current one. The long-haired calico disappeared about the time a mountain lion was seen roaming the area I lived (Renton, WA) for a few weeks, so I suspect she got eaten. :(

352 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:15pm

re: #296 theparson

Either support your allegation or retract it.

I'll be happy to support it - just as soon as you condemn Kramer's accusation that those who want religion kept out of the science classroom are like bookburning Nazis.
Go ahead, condemn it, I dare you. And if you won't, then piss off.

353 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:36pm
354 outsidephilly  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:45pm

re: #342 Walter L. Newton

Oh come on. In schools? Hell, that would be considered violent and I don't know... teaching kids that animals in the wild have natural enemies and sometimes fight and kill. No, can't have that. All spiders and grasshoppers live in rivers of chocolate and in a place where it rains gumdrops all day long.

You scared me, I had to go to my happy place.

But Willie Wonka didn't have spiders in his chocolate river . . . .

355 Outrider  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:48pm

re: #314 BignJames

All spiders are poisonous.

What? Where do you find this? Or rather, what are you defining as poisonous?

356 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:51pm

re: #346 ploome hineni

lol

to finish up, so to speak from the previous penis thread

some like Italian

heheheheh

Ack!

357 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:06:58pm

re: #223 Alouette

My 2-year-old granddaughter is visiting right now. I said I would spoil her rotten but this afternoon she had a full meltdown in Walmart.

She's 2. It's what they do.
My mom "spoiled" my daughter, but still insisted on standards of behavior and courtesy. It can be done. Enjoy the granddaughter!

358 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:07:16pm
359 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:07:19pm

re: #349 Dianna

Their AP science courses must be interesting.

I don't dare get started on the list of classes I am thinking of...

360 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:07:21pm

re: #348 ArmyWife

Wolf spiders are fairly harmless save for the heart stoppage they may cause. Big Bad SF Army guy is TERRIFIED of spiders. One day, long ago, he was helping a friend put insulation under their mobile home in Texas. He is under there putting in that insulation, fine as you please. Then we hear this screaming line of things not fit to publish on this site; he scootches out from under the trailer at the speed of light with this GIANT wolf spider on his chest. It had dropped down on him! They are all giant, by the way. And hairy.

Yep... like I said above, very docile most of the time.

361 rawmuse  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:12pm

re: #333 Killian Bundy

Where does this music reside, besides in your gray matter?
I have been looking for it. Nothing under Don Ellis, who was has been subjected to a rather complete discography by now. Don died young, unfortunately. I live in his home town. People still talk about him.

362 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:17pm
363 SpaceJesus  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:22pm

re: #343 Perplexed

It's happening in PUBLIC schools. Seems that the only freedom from religion is if it is Judeo-Christian based. Islam gets a pass in many of our public school districts. Charles has posted on this issue in the past.


really? there are public schools in America that use Saudi Arabian textbooks as the basis of their curriculum that bash the decadenceevil of the west and secular society? where?

364 Maui Girl  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:22pm

re: #28 Alouette

What is wrong with public school education is that children are not being taught how to read, write, calculate, and reason.

Touche.

365 outsidephilly  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:47pm

re: #348 ArmyWife

Wolf spiders are fairly harmless save for the heart stoppage they may cause. Big Bad SF Army guy is TERRIFIED of spiders. One day, long ago, he was helping a friend put insulation under their mobile home in Texas. He is under there putting in that insulation, fine as you please. Then we hear this screaming line of things not fit to publish on this site; he scootches out from under the trailer at the speed of light with this GIANT wolf spider on his chest. It had dropped down on him! They are all giant, by the way. And hairy.

THAT's a creepy, scary story . . . . !

366 ArmyWife  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:55pm

re: #362 taxfreekiller

I took all my money out of BOA. I see that hurt them tremendously. ;)

367 Outrider  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:08:57pm

re: #325 HoosierHoops

1984? the book? I don't recall a movie..was there one?
must have been a crappy book..
/

Yes, they made a movie of it. English I think....? It wasn't bad. Not as good as the book, but not bad. ;-)>

368 Sharmuta  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:04pm

re: #345 Guanxi88

Ah come on, that's not a terribly generous way to put it, now is it? So one engages in a little judo, is this so wrong?

Are you being sincere with me or bullshitting?

369 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:07pm

re: #346 ploome hineni

lol

to finish up, so to speak from the previous penis thread

some like Italian

heheheheh

Now, Ploome - I just did not need that image in my head right now.
LOL

370 3 wood  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:32pm

There is some good news out there (other than the NYT stock tanking of course). The TED spread is getting smaller and LIBOR is dropping, slowly but it's dropping. All of that indicates a gradual easing of the credit markets which long term is a good thing.

I can see about one more good drop like today and then the bottom would be about 7,000.

Some of these stocks are becoming "stupid cheap". The selling now is beyond rational, it's total panic by some.

While it's scary out there right now, I also think there are buying opportunities the like of which I will probably never see again in my life time.

371 OldLineTexan  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:33pm

re: #346 ploome hineni

lol

to finish up, so to speak from the previous penis thread

some like Italian

heheheheh

A Jack Russell terrier as a sex toy?

372 BignJames  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:33pm

re: #348 ArmyWife

Spiders.

373 stevieray  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:43pm

The NFL needs to borrow Charles' old hamsters... their live streaming of tonight's game is pretty bad. Usually its pretty good... too many watching online right now.

374 bombay311  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:53pm

Good Evening,
I am wondering if there are any tech-savvy lizards that might be able to help me out.

A few days ago my wife recently received a mildly menacing text message. The number it came from never does anything but go to a standard voicemail. no info was available through reverse lookp either.

We found out today that her boss also received a curious text from the same number.

Our best guess is that it is coming from some anonymous texting service. We think we know who the culprit is, someone who ws passed over for the job she earned and was promoted to.

Is there any way of tracing this number other that getting the police involved (which is probably the smart thing to do).

Any advice would be appreciated.

375 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:55pm

re: #366 ArmyWife

I took all my money out of BOA. I see that hurt them tremendously. ;)

Don't wish to see them hurt. They own my mortgage. I need them healthy.

376 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:09:59pm

re: #358 ploome hineni

rofl

/ya cannot make it up

It was the Jack Russell terrier that boggled me. The rest of it...yeah, you just can't make this stuff up.

377 Silhouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:00pm

re: #314 BignJames

All spiders are poisonous.

NO spiders are poisonous.

They are venomous.

/ducks, runs

378 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:14pm

re: #363 SpaceJesus

really? there are public schools in America that use Saudi Arabian textbooks as the basis of their curriculum that bash the decadenceevil of the west and secular society? where?

Not quite. They have kids dressing up as arabs, memorizing parts of the koran, reciting the believers prayer, etc. That sort of stuff.

379 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:21pm
380 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:28pm

re: #362 taxfreekiller

So, will Bank of America and its Democrats get the go ahead to merge
with Citigroup?

develop that

If so, I'm moving my mortgage.

381 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:37pm

re: #351 FurryOldGuyJeans

No, I just referenced that wiki page to illustrate why I chose the name.

Sadly, joule was a cat I had before I joined the Navy, and because of my divorce everything I owned was lost to my ex, pictures and literally everything. I barely was allowed to keep the clothes I was wearing.

Here are some photos of cats I have had since the divorce, with the short-haired tabby being my current one. The long-haired calico disappeared about the time a mountain lion was seen roaming the area I lived (Renton, WA) for a few weeks, so I suspect she got eaten. :(

I had 14 cats at one time, when I lived in Northern New Jersey. I moved there when I was 11, from Brooklyn NY and I went critter crazy, something I couldn't do in the city. Even had a raccoon once, walked it on a leash like a puppy. Mom and Dad were going crazy because I was always bring home stray this and thats.

382 notutopia  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:39pm

re: #239 Lincolntf

But it is a problem now in Texas. And I hope that the pressure stays on the School Board in the next few months and until they reconvene in January.
This is how the slippery slope starts.
I like Jello. They took Jello off the school menu here in the US, at a public school because jello is made of animal protein, it got excluded and removed from all of the kids menus because it is not halal. Why not just make it a choice for Muslim children to pass up the jello? and eat applesauce instead. No.
It's a black or white decision here. No Creationism or ID in the public school system.

383 Dar ul Harb  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:41pm

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

Ha...

2 movies and twice as a made for TV version for the BBC.

And Richard Burton's final film role as O'Brien.

384 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:43pm

re: #325 HoosierHoops

1984? the book? I don't recall a movie..was there one?
must have been a crappy book..
/

There was, even released in 1984.

An early title for Terry Gilliam's Brazil was "1984 and a 1/2", but was scrapped due when the above film was released.

385 Outrider  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:50pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Palin doesn't care about Thanksgiving suffering.......
The Turkey doesn't realize turkeys are dying behind her!

Heh.

These people seriously need to get a life. Where in hell do they think their food comes from..... except the tofu munchers.

386 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:10:52pm
387 Killian Bundy  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:11:09pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Palin doesn't care about Thanksgiving suffering.......
The Turkey doesn't realize turkeys are dying behind her!

Heh.

So, you're ashamed where your Thanksgiving dinner comes from?

/when's the last time you murdered a fish?

388 Right mind left  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:11:27pm

re: #341 Oh no...Sand People!

Agreed. As long as it stays in their private schools.

Well...if you believe what you are taught it sometimes leads to heated arguments and then wars... I wish everyone was free around the globe to embrace the truth and see that it can be incorporated in their own personal beliefs, if they are willing to accept that maybe their personal messiahs lived in a time that had less information or that the current level of understanding would not have translated properly to the people of the times... while it is each individuals' prerogative to hold their beliefs and practice, adhering as closely as they need, it still makes no sense to me personally why anyone would want to ignore evidence.

A clear example is A-hat in Iran who, along with others, claims that the holocaust never happened...

I get excited when I get the latest Hubble photos and when I hear the latest research in genetics or the particle accelerators that give us insight into the real mysteries that abound, that makes me feel awed and, well, tiny.

389 3 wood  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:11:50pm

I'm hearing fro some connections in the market that the fact that Obama has yet to name a Treasury Chief is also causing some concern for the markets.

390 HoosierHoops  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:11:57pm

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

Ha...

2 movies and twice as a made for TV version for the BBC.

LOL
Some people would tell you it is impossible to go through high school and college and have never read 1984 or seen the movie.
at least i heard about it..LOL
I have read about everything skip bayless has ever written about sports..
but..that probably doesn't count does it?
/It's almost the 4th quarter to the Celtics game..very impressive again this year..You folks in Boston have really put together a great team.

391 rawmuse  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:12:14pm

re: #370 3 wood

Buy when the blood is running in the streets.
It is tough to do.
I bought my house(s) after the Loma Prieta quake.
Everyone was running around like their hair was on fire. It was the end of the world for sure.
I unloaded all of them except the one I live in right now.
It was a gut check, but we did OK.

392 ArmyWife  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:12:25pm

re: #372 BignJames

Funny!

393 theparson  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:12:27pm

re: #352 Spare O'Lake

I'll be happy to support it - just as soon as you condemn Kramer's accusation that those who want religion kept out of the science classroom are like bookburning Nazis.
Go ahead, condemn it, I dare you. And if you won't, then piss off.

You are truly eloquent and a deep thinker.
Perhaps if you re-read my post you will see I didn't make a comment I asked a question. Perhaps you will see that my question was specific to an allegation you made comparing creationists and nazis. Perhaps you may even be astute enough to realize I neither spoke in favor of or opposition to anything anyone else said.
Perhaps, but not likely.

394 Thanos  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:12:34pm

re: #374 bombay311

Good Evening,
I am wondering if there are any tech-savvy lizards that might be able to help me out.

A few days ago my wife recently received a mildly menacing text message. The number it came from never does anything but go to a standard voicemail. no info was available through reverse lookp either.

We found out today that her boss also received a curious text from the same number.

Our best guess is that it is coming from some anonymous texting service. We think we know who the culprit is, someone who ws passed over for the job she earned and was promoted to.

Is there any way of tracing this number other that getting the police involved (which is probably the smart thing to do).

Any advice would be appreciated.

It takes a subpoena from the local cop shop if you can't find the number in listings. Have you googled it?

395 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:12:52pm

re: #371 OldLineTexan

A Jack Russell terrier as a sex toy?

How would you ever get it to pay attention long enough? To say nothing of the safety issues that spring forcefully to the front of one's mind?

396 Guanxi88  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:12:57pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

Are you being sincere with me or bullshitting?

Odd question, but yes, I am sincere in this. Look, that guy had talked himself right out onto the ledge. You can see he's worked up about it, but has taken a rather sharp turn into dangerous territory. If he's not careful, things could go very badly indeed, and this otherwise probably decent guy could end up posting something that gets him banned, hurts the reputation of the site and those who use it, and insults several hundred million folks' religion.

He vented a little more perhaps than would be prudent, but he stopped. Now, if you decide to attempt to correct him, via argument, you're likely to reinforce the negative trend, and make the guy look worse. Better to simply acknowledge what he said, and use it as a way to veer away from the problem areas and back over into the common ground, where the discussion can continue. In other words, why fight if you can persuade?

397 Alouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:13:01pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

Well, I had a wolf spider (for about a week) who I called Winston, named after the principle character in the book 1984.

Why didn't you name him O'Brien?

398 reine.de.tout  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:13:30pm

re: #379 ploome hineni

how about this then?


/today has been an odd day

rofl

Sometimes it's so nice to have a nice, dull boring life.

399 Basho  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:13:37pm

re: #374 bombay311

I don't know... you should be able to find out the carrier online. Call them up and explain the situation and maybe they can give you the information. If the person was smart he/she would have used a disposable phone so that would make it impossible to locate. Calling the police is the best thing though...

400 bombay311  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:13:41pm

re: #394 Thanos

It takes a subpoena from the local cop shop if you can't find the number in listings. Have you googled it?

Yep, nothing available

401 Dianna  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:09pm

re: #374 bombay311

I'm not technical.

But I will say that your wife and her boss need to call the police. Yesterday!

402 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:11pm

re: #381 Walter L. Newton

I had 14 cats at one time, when I lived in Northern New Jersey. I moved there when I was 11, from Brooklyn NY and I went critter crazy, something I couldn't do in the city. Even had a raccoon once, walked it on a leash like a puppy. Mom and Dad were going crazy because I was always bring home stray this and thats.

We had raccoons (8-12) using the family pool to wash their food at one time. Destructive little critters and mean enough to kill even medium dogs.

403 theparson  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:15pm

re: #374 bombay311

Good Evening,
I am wondering if there are any tech-savvy lizards that might be able to help me out.

A few days ago my wife recently received a mildly menacing text message. The number it came from never does anything but go to a standard voicemail. no info was available through reverse lookp either.

We found out today that her boss also received a curious text from the same number.

Our best guess is that it is coming from some anonymous texting service. We think we know who the culprit is, someone who ws passed over for the job she earned and was promoted to.

Is there any way of tracing this number other that getting the police involved (which is probably the smart thing to do).

Any advice would be appreciated.

What state are you in?

404 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:25pm
405 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:32pm

re: #383 Dar ul Harb

And Richard Burton's final film role as O'Brien.

And a really good play...

[Link: home.comcast.net...]

406 Perplexed  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:36pm

re: #400 bombay311

It takes a subpoena from the local cop shop if you can't find the number in listings. Have you googled it?

Yep, nothing available

Go to a reverse number lookup and pay the $15-30 bucks for the information.

407 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:48pm

re: #388 Right mind left

Well...if you believe what you are taught it sometimes leads to heated arguments and then wars... I wish everyone was free around the globe to embrace the truth and see that it can be incorporated in their own personal beliefs, if they are willing to accept that maybe their personal messiahs lived in a time that had less information or that the current level of understanding would not have translated properly to the people of the times... while it is each individuals' prerogative to hold their beliefs and practice, adhering as closely as they need, it still makes no sense to me personally why anyone would want to ignore evidence.

A clear example is A-hat in Iran who, along with others, claims that the holocaust never happened...

I get excited when I get the latest Hubble photos and when I hear the latest research in genetics or the particle accelerators that give us insight into the real mysteries that abound, that makes me feel awed and, well, tiny.

Right there with you. As long as they can keep it in their private schools, they can teach what they want...within confines of the law. I think that's a big... 'if' though.

408 rawmuse  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:14:52pm

Later, Lizards. I am off to engage in some perfectly useless pastime.

409 Silhouette  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:15:02pm

re: #385 Outrider

These people seriously need to get a life. Where in hell do they think their food comes from..... except the tofu munchers.

I work near a furrier. One of my employees said she didn't feel "right" going into the furrier to ask them something. I said, "You're wearing leather right now. You eat meat."

The PC forces have won in setting the priorities. It is how 100% can remember that Palin's daughter is pregnant and 2% know which party controls the lawmaking body in this country.

410 OldLineTexan  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:15:04pm

re: #386 ploome hineni

i don't knowwwww

I think the "owwwwwww" part is pretty accurate...

411 bombay311  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:15:11pm

re: #403 theparson


Ohio
land of free government background checks

on conservatives

412 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:15:30pm
413 Lincolntf  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:15:33pm

re: #289 solomonpanting

You must be kidding. Sending me to Wikipedia for instantly debunkable stereotypes and examples of the FAILURE of Creationism making it's way into public education? Gimme a break.
In the real world, bizarre world views are routinely taught in public schools (believe me, I know), and the fact that the basis of those views is Das Kapital rather that the Ten Commandments doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Here's the deal. If some locality decides that Intelligent Design should be proffered to students as an alternative to the current explanation of "We don't know what started, came before, or is the purpose of the Universe" then that locality should be allowed to do so.
Nobody who is qualified to get a H.S. diploma would not understand the FACT that the Earth is billions of years old and that evolution is not only theory but fact.

This is not one of my "pet" subjects ( I prefer freedom of speech, real public education issues and national defense topics), so there may be some anecdotal web-stories that prove me "wrong", but that ain't gonna change the world I've been looking at for the last 37 years.

414 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:15:33pm

re: #397 Alouette

Why didn't you name him O'Brien?

O'Brien was a bad man.

415 bombay311  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:16:14pm

re: #406 Perplexed

did that, no info available

I do have one free phone number check credit though!

416 Thanos  Thu, Nov 20, 2008 7:16:19pm

re: #400 bombay311

It takes a subpoena from the local cop shop if you can't find the number in listings. Have you googled it?

Yep, nothing available

Call Detail Records are only kept in switches a limited time, so if the message was truly threatening take it to the police. They will process a complaint, and can get the cell company to trace the number.