IPT on the Holy Land Foundation Convictions

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
US News • Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 9:03 am PST • Views: 352

The Investigative Project has details on the strategy adjustments that allowed prosecutors to get convictions in the Hamas funding trial of the Holy Land Foundation Islamic charity: HLF Officials Convicted on All Counts.

Prosecutors made a series of significant adjustments, from dropping 29 counts each against defendants Mufid Abdulqader and Abdelrahman Odeh, to adding new witnesses who could put the charity support in context. In addition, jurors in this trial saw three exhibits Israeli military officials seized from the Palestinian Authority which showed the PA also considered HLF to be a Hamas financer and that an HLF-supported charity committee was controlled by Hamas.

The result was a much more streamlined case that followed a logical narrative, said Peter Margulies, a law professor at Roger Williams University in Rhode Island. Seeing the Palestinian Authority reach the same conclusion as the U.S. government had to have helped, he said.

In addition, prosecutors provided summary exhibits that served as “a road map” to the case and had to help jurors deliberate, Margulies said. “The jury was able to look at the evidence and get past the perceived biases of any of the witnesses and see the evidence as a whole.”

That evidence made clear that the defendants knew where the money raised in the U.S. was going despite legal prohibitions against support for Hamas.

The verdict was hailed by M. Zuhdi Jasser, founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. Prosecutors prevailed because they were able to “connect the ideology of political Islam and the overriding mission of Islamist organizations like the HLF to their desire to contribute to the efforts of terror groups, like Hamas,” he said. “When this connection is made we will see the return of a guilty verdict. In future [terrorism financing] cases DOJ will not only have to connect the financial dots but [will have] to demonstrate an overarching common Islamist mission.”

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284 comments

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1 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:04:27am
2 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:04:57am

hope they rot in jail

3 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:05:01am

Great news! Lets hope they all get the maximum sentences.

4 Shug  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:05:08am

OK So when do they arrest Hooper and Awad.?

5 Hengineer  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:05:19am

hip hip huzzah

6 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:05:35am

It's what I was saying from the time that the first trial ended in a debacle of a mistrial and hung jury. The prosecution learned that they needed to streamline the case and how to get the jurors to follow along in the complicated task of tracking where the money came from to its ultimate use as financing Hamas.

Had this trial ended up with acquitals, it would have put the law enforcement methods of taking on terror financing in jeopardy.

7 turn  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:05:37am

The best adjustment they made was getting a new jury and that Pali sympathizer that hung the first jury out of the court.

8 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:05:48am

Excellent work!

9 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:06:10am

Government is fine-tuning how they get terrorist prosecutions, just in time to get booted out by Obama Administration?

10 pat  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:06:10am

Keep it simple. Tell the story in chronological order. Works every time.

11 Right mind left  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:06:17am

Maybe the prosecution needed that new muck filter to present a clear case. Good thing! Muck free!

12 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:06:26am

re: #6 lawhawk

It's what I was saying from the time that the first trial ended in a debacle of a mistrial and hung jury. The prosecution learned that they needed to streamline the case and how to get the jurors to follow along in the complicated task of tracking where the money came from to its ultimate use as financing Hamas.

Had this trial ended up with acquitals, it would have put the law enforcement methods of taking on terror financing in jeopardy.


s'ok, nobama will take care of it for us

13 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:07:06am
14 pat  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:07:30am

If Obama fires all District Attorneys will there be an investigation? Or is that another Republican Only thing?

15 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:07:30am

Gee, now if they could only retry OJ?

16 Right mind left  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:07:58am

Will this verdict set precedent for future convictions along similar veins?

17 lifeofthemind  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:08:11am

General Sir Charles James Napier, about 1849 -
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”

18 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:08:23am

re: #14 pat

If Obama fires all District Attorneys will there be an investigation? Or is that another Republican Only thing?


yes, clinton already proved that

19 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:08:25am

re: #15 Nevergiveup

Gee, now if they could only retry OJ?

We did that for ya! Vegas is the best!

20 Occasional Reader  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:08:41am

Again: Good, but I await to hear the sentencing before popping the champagne corks.

21 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:08:54am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

After all the "MILF" stuff during the campaign, seeing the "HLF" abbreviation for the Holy Land Foundation is a little jarring.


It's HLFILF.

22 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:09:45am

re: #21 Golem Akbar
ok, which is it?

23 turn  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:10:01am

re: #15 Nevergiveup

Gee, now if they could only retry OJ?

Armed robbery sentencing starts Dec. 5th. They'll get his ass one way or another.

24 vapig  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:10:08am

Every once in a while justice prevails!

25 Right mind left  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:10:22am

re: #21 Golem Akbar

It's HLFILF.

Is that last "F" because they couldn't pronounce "TH"?

26 bombay311  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:10:48am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Hopefully they're sentenced before 1-20-09
not gonna happen

27 Russkilitlover  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:11:09am

re: #23 turn

Armed robbery sentencing starts Dec. 5th. They'll get his ass one way or another.

Don't forget the kidnapping. That will tack some time on, too.

28 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:11:31am

re: #23 turn

Armed robbery sentencing starts Dec. 5th. They'll get his ass one way or another.

Well maybe some will get his ...

29 nikis-knight  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:11:37am

This would make a great episode of law and order or such.

I'm sure it'll happen shortly after hell freezes over. More likely is we'll see evil Bush justice department lawyers going after this poor charity, leaving widows and orphans to starve under the Israeli siege.

30 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:12:02am

re: #26 bombay311

Hopefully they're sentenced before 1-20-09
not gonna happen

Hopefully they're sentenced until 1-20-2079

31 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:12:08am

BHO could be a fortune-cookie writer in another life.

32 Occasional Reader  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:12:09am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

After all the "MILF" stuff during the campaign, seeing the "HLF" abbreviation for the Holy Land Foundation is a little jarring.

"In Soviet Phillipines, MILFs f**k you!"

33 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:12:24am

Prosecuting attorneys making sense? Watch out for flying pigs!

34 Russkilitlover  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:13:02am

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.

35 Tumulus11  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:13:16am
'Financing is the life-blood of jihadist organizations like Hamas. With the assistance of willing co-conspirators, they conceal their activities and use the Muslim obligation of charitable giving to mask support that is actually channeled to their murderous agenda. Today's verdicts say, loudly and clearly, that Americans aren't fooled and won't tolerate it.'
// Andrew McCarthy.

. Time for CAIR to be designated an indicted co-conspirator

36 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:13:37am

re: #34 Russkilitlover

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.


yeah, when pigs fly

37 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:13:50am

re: #19 VegasRick

Especially when it comes to the CSI franchise.

38 Hengineer  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:13:58am

re: #15 Nevergiveup

Gee, now if they could only retry OJ?

Don't get me started, some of the people I work with don't understand the difference between civil and criminal court cases and are still complaining about why the one found him guilty and the other found him innocent, despite me telling them that civil courts don't find you "guilty or innocent", just degrees of culpability. Besides, civil courts decide upon preponderance of evidence while criminal cases are beyond a reasonable doubt.

39 turn  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:14:02am

re: #27 Russkilitlover

Don't forget the kidnapping. That will tack some time on, too.

He's looking at the rest of his life behind bars most likely. The rest of his life may come a lot sooner than his full term, I have a feeling some convict will take his ass out before then.

40 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:14:04am

re: #34 Russkilitlover

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.

What you mean that these stories aren't more important (CNN top stories):
* CNNMoney: Obama picks a budget chief
* CNNMoney: Treasury, Fed act to boost lending
* Ticker: Palin to hit campaign trail
* Brown: Students feel the economic pinch
* WNEM: Mom dead and kids gone; cops seek help
* Was attack on pirate 'mother ship' a mistake?
* Pentagon faults firm after electrocution deaths
* Reports: Protesters disrupt Bangkok airport
* WFRV: Woman finds dog dead in oven
* Roswell UFO existed, witnesses insist Video T-shirt
* Kitty zoombas about on robotic Roomba Video T-shirt
* Surprising dangers for pets during the holidays
* iReport.com: 558 dogs, 106 cats crowd home
* When mom or dad doesn't recognize you
* Bankrupt $1M winner wants to gift it Video T-shirt
* Noisy teens face torture-by-Manilow Video
* CNN Wire: Fed bets $800 billion on consumers

41 tfc3rid  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:14:07am

I did notice that CAIR was not mentioned much during this trial in the write-ups on it...

42 Shug  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:14:22am

re: #35 Tumulus11

. Time for CAIR to be designated an indicted co-conspirator

then convicted co-conspirator.

Awad will look good in prison orange

43 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:14:41am
44 Timbre  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:15:06am
“When this connection is made we will see the return of a guilty verdict. In future [terrorism financing] cases DOJ will not only have to connect the financial dots but [will have] to demonstrate an overarching common Islamist mission.”

(emphasis mine)

This is why it is so important that government agencies, and private citizens, keep doggedly investigating and referencing Muslim individuals and groups who are Islamist, Salafist, Wahabist, Jihadist, etc. And this is why groups like CAIR and others try to silence us about "religious" matters. They don't want us looking at their Islamist world. They certainly don't want us using those terms. If we can't reference the "Islamist mission," convictions and counterterrorism become more difficult.

45 calvin coolidge  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:15:18am

The new administration needs to hurry up with Supreme Court appointments so they can reverse this decision.

46 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:15:24am

re: #36 apachegunner

"You know that I CAIR..."

/rimshot

47 turn  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:15:24am

re: #28 Nevergiveup

Well maybe some will get his ...


as in bend over succa?

48 Guanxi88  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:15:41am

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

When did the Philippines go Soviet? Have I been asleep for 20 years, and is everyone jeering at my long matted hair and rusty fowling piece?

Yeah, there've been some other fairly surprising events in the last twenty or so years; we'll have to break them to you gently.

49 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:16:07am

re: #34 Russkilitlover

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.

Why would the media start doing it's job now?

50 Shug  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:16:13am
"My dad is not a criminal!" sobbed one courtroom observer after the verdicts were read. "He's a human!"

Murdered victims of Hamas could not be reached for comment

51 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:16:22am

re: #47 turn

as in bend over succa?

Or as in this is gonna hurt you more than me...?

52 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:16:47am
53 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:17:13am
54 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:17:35am

re: #52 buzzsawmonkey

Or, I could choose to live in happy ignorance.

I'd go with happy ignorance and a mild drinking habit.

55 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:17:52am

re: #53 ploome hineni

has anyone logged onto YNEt this morning?

Yes why?

56 2senseplain  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:01am

re: #53 ploome hineni

Yes. What specifically are you looking for?

57 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:10am

re: #22 apachegunner

ok, which is it?


Yes

58 CIA Reject  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:29am

re: #38 Hengineer

Don't get me started, some of the people I work with don't understand the difference between civil and criminal court cases and are still complaining about why the one found him guilty and the other found him innocent, despite me telling them that civil courts don't find you "guilty or innocent", just degrees of culpability. Besides, civil courts decide upon preponderance of evidence while criminal cases are beyond a reasonable doubt.

One of my Pet Peeves: Courts do not not find anybody INNOCENT. The choices are GUILTY (meaning the State proved it's case) or NOT GUILTY (meaning the state did not prove it's case).

"Not Guilty" IS NOT the same thing as "Innocent".

The OJ murder case is a prime example of that...

59 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:35am

re: #34 Russkilitlover

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.

It will. In Palestine.

60 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:35am
61 Sharmuta  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:39am
“When this connection is made we will see the return of a guilty verdict. In future [terrorism financing] cases DOJ will not only have to connect the financial dots but [will have] to demonstrate an overarching common Islamist mission.”

That shouldn't lead to any outcries of "Islamophobia" at all.

///

62 nikis-knight  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:44am

OT, but wow:
Hero of the Day

"I was in my own little world," the young corporal said. "I wasn't even aware of a lot of the rounds impacting near my position, because I was concentrating so hard on making sure my rounds were on target."

After calling for close-air support, the small group of Marines pushed forward and broke the enemies' spirit as many of them dropped their weapons and fled the battlefield. At the end of the battle, the Marines had reduced an enemy stronghold, killed more than 50 insurgents and wounded several more.

"I didn't realize how many bad guys there were until we had broken through the enemies' lines and forced them to retreat. It was roughly 250 insurgents against 30 of us," the corporal said. "It was a good day for the Marine Corps. We killed a lot of bad guys, and none of our guys were seriously injured."

63 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:18:49am
64 Occasional Reader  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:19:01am

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

When did the Philippines go Soviet? Have I been asleep for 20 years, and is everyone jeering at my long matted hair and rusty fowling piece?

Yo, Rip, I thought we dropped the fowl puns in the previous thread...

65 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:19:54am

re: #63 ploome hineni

my home computer as taken over by a trojan horse
about the time I logged on

And you think it is from YNET?

66 Occasional Reader  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:20:29am

re: #60 buzzsawmonkey

"Mild? Oh, more than just mild. You know, you're soaking in it?"

--Madge the Palmolive Manicurist

How do you come up with these quotes? It's like you're in on some sort of... I dunno... ancient Chinese secret.

67 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:20:34am

Hey all Y'all - um, just quickly scanned the thread but who is "M. Zuhdi Jasser, founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy." He's the dude quoted as hailing the verdict!

68 2senseplain  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:20:53am

re: #65 Nevergiveup
Wouldn't think its from YNET.

69 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:20:59am
70 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:21:01am
71 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:21:08am

re: #63 ploome hineni

my home computer as taken over by a trojan horse
about the time I logged on

I am on a MAC so not sure if we would be in the same situation even if it were from YNET. I have never really had a problem with that site.

72 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:21:31am

re: #67 realwest

hey RW, doc let ya outta there?

73 Racer X  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:21:41am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

After all the "MILF" stuff during the campaign, seeing the "HLF" abbreviation for the Holy Land Foundation is a little jarring.

HILF?

Hezbo
I'd
Like to
Fry

74 Hengineer  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:21:42am

re: #58 CIA Reject

One of my Pet Peeves: Courts do not not find anybody INNOCENT. The choices are GUILTY (meaning the State proved it's case) or NOT GUILTY (meaning the state did not prove it's case).

"Not Guilty" IS NOT the same thing as "Innocent".

The OJ murder case is a prime example of that...

good point my bad

75 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:21:50am

re: #70 ploome hineni

I don;t know

I had just gone online, and was surfing around

and then it was blammo

I don;t know where it came from

Were you able to get rid of it?

76 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:22:01am
77 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:22:24am

re: #76 ploome hineni

I was reading ynet when it happened, so I thought I would ask you all

What happened?

78 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:22:25am
79 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:22:52am

re: #67 realwest

American Islamic Forum for Democracy
I believe they are based in Phoenix.

80 Shug  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:23:10am

what is a trojan horse? Is that like a charley horse ?

81 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:23:25am

re: #63 ploome hineni

It may not be from the site you visted. There are "iframe" hacks..which re-direct you to a malicious server, etc.

82 quickjustice  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:23:35am

So the DOJ prosecutors competently presented their case? Who woulda thunk it? ;-)

83 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:23:38am

re: #72 apachegunner
NO, doc's "triage" nurse got my appointment time wrong - gotta leave in about half an hour or so.
I HATE waiting in doctor's waiting rooms almost as much as I hate doctors.

84 CIA Reject  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:01am

re: #74 Hengineer

good point my bad

OOPS! My comment wasn't directed at you personally- It's just that I see way too many people who I KNOW are trying to make that non-existent equivalence and I know that was not the intent of your post.

Sorry if I came across the wrong way

85 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:08am
86 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:20am

re: #80 Shug

what is a trojan horse? Is that like a charley horse ?


A condom?

87 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:42am

re: #85 ploome hineni

screen went blank, AVG went nuts, windows notice came up

and I began a AVG scan..(scans daily anyway).I left the computer on an still scanning

Good luck

88 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:43am

re: #83 realwest

if that gateway keeps giving ya problems you'll have to switch to a dell with wireless card, then you could be with us all the time.

89 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:49am
90 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:51am
91 DeafDog  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:24:52am

OT - The NY Times, of all places, bludgeons Obamas pick for SecTres.

NYT on Tim Geitner

92 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:25:13am

re: #71 Nevergiveup

I am on a MAC so not sure if we would be in the same situation even if it were from YNET. I have never really had a problem with that site.

How does the MAC prevent this sort of thing?

93 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:25:52am

re: #79 Killgore Trout

American Islamic Forum for Democracy
I believe they are based in Phoenix.


re: #67 realwest

Hey all Y'all - um, just quickly scanned the thread but who is "M. Zuhdi Jasser, founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy." He's the dude quoted as hailing the verdict!

Mark Levin has had him on several times, he seems like a good guy. Wants to integrate Islam into America society like other religions.

94 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:25:58am

re: #92 debutaunt
the mac is a mythical thing

95 dhg4  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:26:30am

Here's how the NYT account ends:

“My dad is a law-abiding citizen who was persecuted for his humanitarian work in Palestine and his political beliefs,” Ms. Elashi said. “Today I did not shed a single tear. My dad’s smile was radiant. That’s because he saved lives, and now he’s paying the price.”

According to freedomtogive.com, a Web site that calls itself the voice of the defendants’ relatives and friends, the foundation “simply provided food, clothes, shelter, medical supplies and education to the suffering people in Palestine and other countries.”

Whose side was the reporter on?

While the Times mentions that the prosecutors were clearer, it had nothing about the Palestinian Authority evidence. There was no excuse for leaving that out and promoting the idea that these guys were saving lives, when they were, in fact, supporting terror.

96 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:26:32am
97 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:27:04am

re: #79 Killgore Trout
Huh. From your link:

American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD) was formed in March of 2003 by a group of Muslim professionals in the Phoenix Valley of Arizona. The group's founder is M. Zuhdi Jasser, M.D.

He felt that AIFD could formally articulate the fact that in commentary and scholarship that many Muslims believe that they are able to practice their faith more freely and more Islamically (in a personal and secular fashion which is most suited to preserve one's faith) in America than in any other place in the world.

AIFD seeks to make a small contribution to the body of thought which articulates an understanding of Islam which separates religion and state and is in complete harmony with the U.S. Constitution and our citizenship pledge.

[emphasis realwest]
Duh, could this be a group of those "moderate Muslims" we hear about?

98 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:27:47am
99 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:27:55am

re: #92 debutaunt

How does the MAC prevent this sort of thing?

People who write virus and such target a larger demographic. PC's are a larger target.

100 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:28:48am

For those who may not remember: CAIR National website, September 17, 2001

CAIR tried to use 9-11 to raise funds for Hamas.

101 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:29:50am

HLF: Hey Look! we're FUBAR.

102 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:29:57am

re: #97 realwest

Yup, I used to have that site bookmarked as an example of moderate Muslims when it used to be a topic of debate here.

103 Pyrocles  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:30:04am

AIFD seems like a group that needs our support. If Islam is ever going to change, that change will happen here in the US, where Muslims have the freedom to change if they want to.

re: #97 realwest

Huh. From your link:

[emphasis realwest]
Duh, could this be a group of those "moderate Muslims" we hear about?

104 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:30:36am
105 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:30:49am

re: #93 jcm so it would appear - see my #97 above.
Maybe why my Muslim friend - who became an American Citizen I think about 17 years ago - from Pakistan is always critical of bombings of the terrorists whenever and wherever they occur.
And I can't tell ya what he thinks about Palestinians out here except to briefly say he thinks they are lazy, incompetent boobs. He said it purtier than that, but I don't want to get banned!

106 DeafDog  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:31:05am

re: #98 Iron Fist

What, did the guy let his membership in the Communist Party of the United States expire? Only Union Party members need apply.

The long and short of the artical is that Geitner was - as much as anyone - asleep at the switch during the meltdown period. Putting him in charge now because he has 'experience' is a double-edged sword.

I predict that his shelf life will expire by the end of 2009.

107 opnion  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:31:13am

Wss this a civil or criminal prosecution?

108 Hengineer  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:31:16am

re: #84 CIA Reject

OOPS! My comment wasn't directed at you personally- It's just that I see way too many people who I KNOW are trying to make that non-existent equivalence and I know that was not the intent of your post.

Sorry if I came across the wrong way

its alright In a way my comment was a "pet peeve" too

109 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:32:12am

re: #107 opnion

Wss this a civil or criminal prosecution?

Criminal.

110 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:32:57am
111 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:33:05am

re: #92 debutaunt

How does the MAC prevent this sort of thing?

Not sure really, but Trojan horses like viruses must be system specific and there seem to be less for Apple's operating system. Either because it more secure and/or so many less people use it, it is not targeted as much.

112 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:33:06am

re: #86 Golem Akbar

My school is not on the Sexual Health Rankings list that you provided via your link.
Are we therefore asexual?

113 Kragar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:33:13am

re: #107 opnion

Wss this a civil or criminal prosecution?

Criminal

114 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:33:34am

re: #88 apachegunner
Hey guns - yeah they're either fixing this sucker on Saturday or they promised me a new, comparable computer!
But as for your "then you could be with us all the time.", I'm not sure Charles would like that and I KNOW that there are some folks out here who'd hate that idea!

115 opnion  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:33:40am

re: #109 lawhawk

Criminal.

Great! Do you know when these guys get sentenced & are they free on bond?

116 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:34:03am

re: #99 jcm

People who write virus and such target a larger demographic. PC's are a larger target.

How do the viruses ignore MAC computers?

117 Randall Gross  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:34:08am

re: #113 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Criminal

Criminal enough to make life sentences a possibility.

118 bosforus  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:34:10am
Prosecutors prevailed because they were able to “connect the ideology of political Islam and the overriding mission of Islamist organizations like the HLF to their desire to contribute to the efforts of terror groups, like Hamas,” he said. “When this connection is made we will see the return of a guilty verdict. In future [terrorism financing] cases DOJ will not only have to connect the financial dots but [will have] to demonstrate an overarching common Islamist mission.”

That's what I like to hear!

119 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:35:53am

re: #111 Nevergiveup

Not sure really, but Trojan horses like viruses must be system specific and there seem to be less for Apple's operating system. Either because it more secure and/or so many less people use it, it is not targeted as much.

It's two sided. Mac are a smaller target for hackers, they want to hit as many machines are possible so they go for the 90% Windows PCs.

The other factor is that the UNIX core of the MacOS is more secure in it's design and implementation.

120 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:36:10am
121 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:36:34am

good, no bail as they appeal? re: #120 taxfreekiller

122 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:37:25am
123 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:37:27am

re: #119 jcm

It's two sided. Mac are a smaller target for hackers, they want to hit as many machines are possible so they go for the 90% Windows PCs.

The other factor is that the UNIX core of the MacOS is more secure in it's design and implementation.

So the virus comes in with the email, but is blocked inside the operating system?

124 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:38:32am

re: #122 Iron Fist

now with more malaise!

I nominate this for a rotating title.

125 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:38:38am

OT- (but terrorism none the less)

'President-elect Barack Obama said today it is important that his administration not "stumble" into office, but "hit the ground running." He added that some programs will be cut when he is president. "If we're going to make the investments we need, we must also be willing to shed the spending we don't," he said.'

Investments we need? Does this sound like socialism? Just a little point I thought I would bring up.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

126 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:38:45am

re: #116 debutaunt

It's about how the computer's software/hardware is designed. There's a major design flaw in MicroSoft's OS...making it virtually non-securable. (Imagine you have a kernel code which is at the heart of your OS, then you have concentric rings protecting that code...hackers want to be able to breach those protective rings...and, given MS's design, it's relatively easy...a "device driver" for example, brings you right into the heart of the MS OS...MACs are differently designed.)

127 opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:38:57am

If we are discussing the Religion of Peace:

KABUL, Afghanistan — The police in Kandahar have arrested 10 Taliban militants they said were involved in an attack earlier this month on a group of Afghan schoolgirls whose faces were doused with acid, officials in Kandahar said Tuesday.

The officials said that the militants, who were Afghan citizens, had confessed to their involvement in the attack on the schoolgirls and their teachers on Nov. 12 and that a high-ranking member of the Taliban had paid the militants 100,000 Pakistani rupees for each of the girls they managed to burn.

The girls were assaulted Nov. 12 by two men on a motorcycle who were apparently irate that the girls dared to attend high school. The men drove up beside them and splashed their faces with what appeared to be battery acid.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

128 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:39:22am

re: #115 opnion

Great! Do you know when these guys get sentenced & are they free on bond?

They have been detained.

129 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:39:31am

re: #122 Iron Fist

Especially since a sadly enormous part of his base are expecting irrational things.

130 DeafDog  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:40:11am

re: #122 Iron Fist

Unfortunately, Bambi gets 4 years, the last time I checked.

Geitner will be the first Cabinet secretary under the bus - it'll give Bambi's Teflon a fresh coat. That the NYTs is already starting to couple Geitner with Paulson means that they are setting the stage for the eventual blame-game.

131 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:40:25am

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

I have a feeling that his base are not gonna like "sacrificing" and hearing about "things we must do."

132 Shug  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:40:26am

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

OT- (but terrorism none the less)

'President-elect Barack Obama said today it is important that his administration not "stumble" into office, but "hit the ground running." He added that some programs will be cut when he is president. "If we're going to make the investments we need, we must also be willing to shed the spending we don't," he said.'

Investments we need? Does this sound like socialism? Just a little point I thought I would bring up.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

He'll hit the ground running, even if he has no sense of direction

133 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:40:32am

Incredible Brick Balancing Act

A fisherman in Bangladesh is amazingly able to stack up to 20 cement bricks on his head while on a rickety boat, then carry them off for his day's work.

134 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:41:10am

re: #126 J.S.

It's about how the computer's software/hardware is designed. There's a major design flaw in MicroSoft's OS...making it virtually non-securable. (Imagine you have a kernel code which is at the heart of your OS, then you have concentric rings protecting that code...hackers want to be able to breach those protective rings...and, given MS's design, it's relatively easy...a "device driver" for example, brings you right into the heart of the MS OS...MACs are differently designed.)

I wondered if the virus was stopped before it got in the computer, but it does get in and is blocked before doing harm. Sorry to be a doofus.

135 opnion  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:41:18am

re: #120 taxfreekiller

U.S. Marshals took them into custody just after the verdict.

That is a beautiful thing, now no Korans, prayer rugs or conjugal visits with goats.

136 CIA Reject  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:41:37am

re: #125 Walter L. Newton

OT- (but terrorism none the less)

'President-elect Barack Obama said today it is important that his administration not "stumble" into office, but "hit the ground running." He added that some programs will be cut when he is president. "If we're going to make the investments we need, we must also be willing to shed the spending we don't," he said.'

Investments we need? Does this sound like socialism? Just a little point I thought I would bring up.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

To me it sounds more Clintonesque than Socialist (a fine distinction I admit). Rather than "investments" my bigger concern is what spending BO is willing to "shed".

My guess is that it will be exclusively in the areas of defense and intelligence.

137 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:41:49am

re: #123 debutaunt

So the virus comes in with the email, but is blocked inside the operating system?

A program written for one OS won't run on the other. Different languages.

138 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:42:03am

I propose that in the interest of transparency in this time of economic turmoil the likes of which we have not seen since the Great Depression, there be a live webcam of BHO going over the Federal Budget "line-by-line."

139 Kragar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:42:14am

re: #131 Bumr50

I have a feeling that his base are not gonna like "sacrificing" and hearing about "things we must do."

Why? You think the One might be a bit slow in providing them with free gas and paying off their mortgages?

140 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:42:26am

re: #133 Ben Hur

Does he then throw them at the fish?

141 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:42:49am

Don't know why FOX or CNN, well FOX anyway, is not reporting it.

[Link: customwire.ap.org...]

142 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:43:19am

re: #137 jcm

A program written for one OS won't run on the other. Different languages.

Thanks all. I suspect that if I bought a MAC, it would be at the time some competitive virus-maker had figured out how to crack the MAC.

143 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:43:20am

re: #112 Bumr50

My school is not on the Sexual Health Rankings list that you provided via your link.
Are we therefore asexual?

/A sexual what?

144 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:43:21am

he is cutting the missle shield program, all new combat systems on and beyond the drawing board, DOD will be gutted. re: #136 CIA Reject

145 opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:43:37am

re: #122 Iron Fist

That sounds about right. I figure Bambi's shelf-life will be about that long. People will cut him slack for the first six months or so, and then when he's accomplished nothing (or at least nothing good) his popularity will take a header, and stay down. Jimmy Carter the Second, now with more malaise!

Unlikely.

The media is invested in Obama and he will be praised for anything that may go right while absolved of anything bad that occurs- blaming it on the previous Administration.

The same populace that bought his campaign will buy anything.

146 Rancher  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:43:56am

re: #62 nikis-knight

OT, but wow:
Hero of the Day


"I was in my own little world," the young corporal said. "I wasn't even aware of a lot of the rounds impacting near my position, because I was concentrating so hard on making sure my rounds were on target."


Deja Vu all over again.

Battle of Bella Woods

As American forces arrived on the scene, Captain Lloyd Williams of 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines Regiment was told by the retreating French army that turning back was the best course of action. He declined, giving the now-famous reply, "Retreat, hell! We just got here!"

With little to no cover, Marines maneuvered through an 800-yard wide-open wheat field, trying to reach the heavily entrenched German soldiers. The Marines began their advance with unwavering courage and the use of precision long-distance marksmanship. According to Gilles Lagin, a Belleau Wood historian, the Germans were familiar with British snipers, but the Marines’ ability to hit a target from more than 500 yards away stunned them so badly they believed there was an entire regiment of Marine snipers attacking.

147 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:44:00am

re: #86 Golem Akbar
Hey Golem - didja notice that the bottom 10 Sexually Safe Schools include Notre Dame, Brigham Young and St. John's in NY?

148 CIA Reject  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:44:09am

re: #138 Bumr50

I propose that in the interest of transparency in this time of economic turmoil the likes of which we have not seen since the Great Depression, there be a live webcam of BHO going over the Federal Budget "line-by-line."

At least that'll keep him busy (and hopefully out of trouble) for at least the next four years... :-)

149 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:45:26am

re: #147 realwest

Hey Golem - didja notice that the bottom 10 Sexually Safe Schools include Notre Dame, Brigham Young and St. John's in NY?

Well, if I ever go back to school, I'll make sure to stay away from those schools.

150 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:45:36am

re: #143 Golem Akbar

I'm a "nontraditional"(read old) student, and therefore have nontraditional sex.
I'm not sure Trojan keeps stats on that. Probably Pfizer does.

151 Ben Hur  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:45:43am

What about that chameleon strut video?

152 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:45:47am

re: #145 opinionated

Unlikely.

The media is invested in Obama and he will be praised for anything that may go right while absolved of anything bad that occurs- blaming it on the previous Administration.

The same populace that bought his campaign will buy anything.

Obama underwear?

153 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:46:41am
154 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:46:59am

re: #142 debutaunt

Thanks all. I suspect that if I bought a MAC, it would be at the time some competitive virus-maker had figured out how to crack the MAC.

Any computer can be cracked, for the hacker it's return on investment. Windows is easier to crack and there are more of them.

155 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:47:00am

re: #149 Walter L. Newton

Well, if I ever go back to school, I'll make sure to stay away from those schools.

Oh, sorry, I thought the list was about schools that didn't have much sex, I see, my mistake.

156 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:47:17am

re: #153 buzzsawmonkey
I would think 10 of the worst, right>?

157 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:48:16am
158 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:48:34am

re: #147 realwest

Hey Golem - didja notice that the bottom 10 Sexually Safe Schools include Notre Dame, Brigham Young and St. John's in NY?


/hmph. Education! Books and larnin' are so highly overrated...

159 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:48:52am

re: #152 VegasRick

Obama underwear?

Obama? Under Where?

160 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:49:32am

re: #149 Walter L. Newton

Well, if I ever go back to school, I'll make sure to stay away from those schools.


/I mean, isn't school for parties and such?

161 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:49:49am
162 Russkilitlover  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:50:14am

re: #131 Bumr50

I have a feeling that his base are not gonna like "sacrificing" and hearing about "things we must do."

Unless that sacrificing involves cutting back on military and military technology funding, which is what BHO promised in his campaign. Remember? He will NOT weaponize space, he will not invest in PROVEN weapons, etc., etc.

163 Kragar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:50:39am

re: #146 Rancher

A Marine Platoon versus a jihadi company? Not really a fair fight. Those poor poor jihadis.

///

164 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:51:03am

re: #157 Iron Fist

We have two years until the mid-term elections. If the Republican's will pull their head out of their collective ass we can hopefully do something about the make up of the Congress then. The Dems in Congress already have record-breaking favorability ratings. With any luck, that will infect the entire Bambi administration.

Let's fix DC first. It doesn't matter who we send up there, the system is broke, when they get to DC, they wind up working for (I like TFK's phrase) "the money cult" and no one else.

Until we stop the way it works up there, it's not going to matter if it's Dems, Repubs etc.

165 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:51:16am

re: #136 CIA Reject
Well, given how many former Clinton admin folks he's already named - and is expected to name Hillary Sec of State after Thanksgiving (guess he doesn't want to have an upset stomach before he eats his feast) I don't see Obama's admin much different than Clinton/Carter but with economic calamities added in.
I know I voted against him and I don't like him and I don't trust him, but he will be the President of the United States and I frankly wish him the very best of luck.

166 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:51:29am

re: #161 buzzsawmonkey
yes, I understand. Metrics is the key here.

167 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:51:37am

are I mean

168 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:52:31am

re: #165 realwest

Well, given how many former Clinton admin folks he's already named - and is expected to name Hillary Sec of State after Thanksgiving (guess he doesn't want to have an upset stomach before he eats his feast) I don't see Obama's admin much different than Clinton/Carter but with economic calamities added in.
I know I voted against him and I don't like him and I don't trust him, but he will be the President of the United States and I frankly wish him the very best of luck.


Hillary as Sec of State? [as Dick Morris says:] the blond leading the blind.

169 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:53:28am

re: #153 buzzsawmonkey
Well buzz it's a survey done by Trojan Condoms, so I'll
let you figure out what "bottom" means! LOL!

170 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:53:56am

re: #169 realwest
oh no, not Barny Frank again!

171 opnion  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:54:00am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

Oh, sorry, I thought the list was about schools that didn't have much sex, I see, my mistake.

Wheaton College has got to be highly rated as a no party zone!

172 Eowyn2  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:54:26am

re: #34 Russkilitlover

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.

I would prefer the media keep away from the men and women doing the tracing of money and other items. You know that the times is always looking for stories of DoJ, FBI, CIA, etc etc spying on 'citizens of the world'

173 Golem Akbar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:54:57am

re: #161 buzzsawmonkey

Well, it could imply the popularity of...certain practices.

In any event, I'd want to know what the criteria for "best" and "worst" are. Are they talking about sexual activity merely? Rape? Are they talking about whether the school has bought into all that guff about "sexual harassment speech codes?"

If the instrument has not been calibrated, you don't know what you're measuring.

Here's the tie-in, I believe.

174 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:55:03am

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

This might be a reach, but before each floor debate how about a required electronic forum with complete anonymity and equal time and responses for all participants. At least in the Senate.

Just brainstorming, it's silly...

175 Silhouette  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:55:50am

re: #161 buzzsawmonkey

I'd want to know what the criteria for "best" and "worst" are.

Indeed.

In those lists of "best" and "worst" places to live, they measure the criteria THEY value. I happen to know many places that are paradise, but there are no art museums or what-have-yous.

176 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:56:50am

For economy's sake, Pelosi needs to push for impeachment now.

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Can Congress and House critters be impeached? We need a house cleaning period.

177 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:56:55am

re: #165 realwest

Well, given how many former Clinton admin folks he's already named - and is expected to name Hillary Sec of State after Thanksgiving (guess he doesn't want to have an upset stomach before he eats his feast) I don't see Obama's admin much different than Clinton/Carter but with economic calamities added in.
I know I voted against him and I don't like him and I don't trust him, but he will be the President of the United States and I frankly wish him the very best of luck.

We are all uneasy in our easy chairs.

178 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:57:30am

Tin ear comment of the day:
Hamid Karzai: NATO must come up with a fixed end date to war.

Memo to Karzai- the duration of the war will be determined by the failure of the enemy (your enemy, al Qaeda and Taliban thugs) to realize that they are not only defeated but utterly destroyed. The war will take as long as necessary, and not a moment sooner.

179 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:58:28am

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

Well, it's not like she's going to take any action against Charlie Rangel, despite evidence of criminality and tax evasion on a long term scale.

180 Nevergiveup  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:58:43am

re: #178 lawhawk

Tin ear comment of the day:
Hamid Karzai: NATO must come up with a fixed end date to war.

Memo to Karzai- the duration of the war will be determined by the failure of the enemy (your enemy, al Qaeda and Taliban thugs) to realize that they are not only defeated but utterly destroyed. The war will take as long as necessary, and not a moment sooner.

Well semi appointed puppets tend not to make the best generals. Just saying.

181 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:59:13am
182 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 9:59:32am

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

You mean like Chuck Schumer, economist.?

183 realwest  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:00:16am

Well gotta run again - hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

184 vapig  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:00:22am

re: #178 lawhawk

Tin ear comment of the day:
Hamid Karzai: NATO must come up with a fixed end date to war.

Memo to Karzai- the duration of the war will be determined by the failure of the enemy (your enemy, al Qaeda and Taliban thugs) to realize that they are not only defeated but utterly destroyed. The war will take as long as necessary, and not a moment sooner.

Actually, I'd say the duration of the war is determined by how long it takes his government to get their freakin act together. Same as Iraq.

185 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:01:00am

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

I just want to impeach my fucking governor, Rod Blagojevich, worst governor in the entire US. Every time he opens his mouth it's for an even worse idea than his last bad idea.

186 opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:01:53am

re: #63 ploome hineni

my home computer as taken over by a trojan horse
about the time I logged on

Microsoft has a critical update last month concerning a vulnerability even when the user does nothing.

This vulnerability is one of those rare ones that could result in a true network worm, where a system could be successfully attacked over the network with no user action at all.

[Link: www.pcmag.com...]

187 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:02:15am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

I nominate Ed Rendell!

188 vapig  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:02:25am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

I just want to impeach my fucking governor, Rod Blagojevich, worst governor in the entire US. Every time he opens his mouth it's for an even worse idea than his last bad idea.

California's govenator might give him a run for his money.

189 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:02:55am

re: #142 debutaunt

I've also read that since MAC has switched over to using an Intel chip -- that means virtually all computers now have "Intel Inside" -- it opens up MAC to new vulnerabilities...making it less secure...(Also, so long as C and C+ code are still in use, there will be "exploits").

190 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:03:31am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

I just want to impeach my fucking governor, Rod Blagojevich, worst governor in the entire US. Every time he opens his mouth it's for an even worse idea than his last bad idea.


havn't they nailed that nitwit yet, with barry's friend spilling his guts?

191 CIA Reject  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:03:54am

re: #165 realwest

Well, given how many former Clinton admin folks he's already named - and is expected to name Hillary Sec of State after Thanksgiving (guess he doesn't want to have an upset stomach before he eats his feast) I don't see Obama's admin much different than Clinton/Carter but with economic calamities added in.
I know I voted against him and I don't like him and I don't trust him, but he will be the President of the United States and I frankly wish him the very best of luck.

Personally I think that having so many "Clintonistas" in his administration will come back to bite him in the end. He crossed The Clintons big time, and that's like crossing The Mob- I think the potential for sabotage is enormous.

As for him being POTUS- I respect the office and I would like to respect the office holder, but in this case I just can't.

Still the country will survive. We survived Carter, and we'll survive this clown. I guess electing an incompetent to the highest office in the land is just something the American public has to do to itself every generation or so...

192 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:04:15am
193 Randall Gross  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:04:58am

re: #174 Bumr50

This might be a reach, but before each floor debate how about a required electronic forum with complete anonymity and equal time and responses for all participants. At least in the Senate.

Just brainstorming, it's silly...

Not a terrible idea, but on the other hand would the forums stack deep with nutball seminar posters the way CSPAN stacks neckdeep with nutball seminar callers?

194 VegasRick  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:05:04am

re: #160 Golem Akbar

/I mean, isn't school for parties and such?

Here in LV we vhave "stripper schools". My buddies and I hang out with the students when they have no class.

h/t RD - BTS

195 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:05:10am
196 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:05:20am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

I just want to impeach my fucking governor, Rod Blagojevich, worst governor in the entire US. Every time he opens his mouth it's for an even worse idea than his last bad idea.

I'd be willing to bet you my governor is worse...

197 Silhouette  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:05:34am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

worst governor in the entire US.

A title borne by many at one time or another. I nominate Blanco during the Katrina event, but she is history now.

198 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:05:45am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

I just want to impeach my fucking governor, Rod Blagojevich, worst governor in the entire US. Every time he opens his mouth it's for an even worse idea than his last bad idea.

CT's Jodi Rell. She is a Republican governor in a very Democratic state. That ought to tell you what she has had to do to stay in office.

199 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:05:50am

re: #190 apachegunner

havn't they nailed that nitwit yet, with barry's friend spilling his guts?

They're getting closer, but I want that idiot out of office. He makes Granholm look good.

200 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:06:15am

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but did Skeletor understand this verdict?

201 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:06:28am

re: #196 loppyd

Hey Loppy. How are you. Are you married yet?

202 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:06:34am

re: #192 buzzsawmonkey

Exactly.
Also the latest person in the "let me pull a rather large number out of my backside , and I'll sound more intelligent" crowd.

203 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:07:26am

re: #201 Ford_Prefect

Hey Loppy. How are you. Are you married yet?

Hey there! I'm good. Not married yet - still working out the plans.

How's by you?

204 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:07:42am

re: #195 ploome hineni

Get the patch, if you're not using Vista...(?)

205 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:07:43am

Jews Ahoy!
Piracy in the Red Sea: Saudi points towards Israel

“What is happening in the Horn of Africa is not a simple case of piracy. These acts of piracy raise various questions about the capabilities and equipment of simple outlaws who are seeking ransoms,” wrote Tuesday (November 25) Nawaf Al-Meshal Sabhan in the Saudi daily Al-Iqtissadia.

“These acts triggered statements on the internationalization of the Red Sea, in which the enemy state of Israel would be a crucial element,” he adds.
...
“Who has got an interest in putting pressure on Egypt, by diverting cargo ships of Suez Canal and by making Egypt lose daily income of over $15 million?” the analysts asks again.

“Who is behind acts of piracy?” Was the headline of the daily Al-Riyadh’s editorialist Dr. Hashem Abdou Hashem.

“These repeated acts of piracy are premeditated. They are sponsored by a State or organization, in any case by a party seeking to create tension, concern and instability in the Red Sea in order to achieve strategic interests,” he wrote.

206 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:07:51am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

Remember when Fitz postponed Rezko's sentencing because he was supposedly singing about Blago?

The Rezko sentencing was supposed to happen Oct. 28. 3 weeks before it, Fitz announces it will be postponed, until some unnamed date after the election.

Don't hold your breath. Fitz is the same guy who went after Libby and Cheney over the Plame non-leak, even AFTER HE KNEW that Armitage (from Powell's staff) was the guy who talked to Robert Novak and several other folks.

207 Russkilitlover  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:08:00am

re: #181 ploome hineni

I like the part where he says they might "take back Alaska." Yeah, dude, try that with Sarah as Gov.

208 WrathofG-d  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:08:51am

OT:

During the Eid or whatever big religious day the Muslims have when they go to the Temple Mount, we get hundreds of articles about the difficulties the Muslims have, their plight, a background on the evil treatment of Muslims over the last 70+ years, hundreds of pictures showing the difficulties the Muslims endure to do so, etc., etc., etc.,

Well just recently, Jews celebrated Chayei Sarah, and tens of thousands of Jews risked their lives to go to Hebron to worship in one of Judaism's holiest site in the World.

Although it is necessary for the Jews to do so under military protection because the Arabs tend to try to murder and attack them on the way, there isn't ONE article or photo about it in the MSM.

In fact, if I hadn't brought it up, you probably wouldn't have even heard of it.

209 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:09:14am

re: #196 loppyd

I'd be willing to bet you my governor is worse...

I win...
One month ago our governor ran claiming a surplus... now we have a $6 Billion deficit!

210 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:09:46am

re: #191 CIA Reject

Personally I think that having so many "Clintonistas" in his administration will come back to bite him in the end. He crossed The Clintons big time, and that's like crossing The Mob- I think the potential for sabotage is enormous.

As for him being POTUS- I respect the office and I would like to respect the office holder, but in this case I just can't.

Still the country will survive. We survived Carter, and we'll survive this clown. I guess electing an incompetent to the highest office in the land is just something the American public has to do to itself every generation or so...

Yeah, well, I had high hopes that our Carter was Bush...and that the American people would be smart enough to elect somebody competent.

Instead we get even less competent than Bush.

I hate to say this, but Obama is actually choosing decent people. I really do hope they can improve on Bush's record. UGH

211 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:10:16am

yeah, so he's a crook, so what. they are all crooks the suckers. re: #206 funky chicken

212 Russkilitlover  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:10:34am

re: #196 loppyd

I'd be willing to bet you my governor is worse...

Let's play Who Has the Worst Governor! I'll add Ahnold to that list and he comes with a long string of flip-flops, bad decisions, tax cut promises and tax increase performances and on and on and on and on.

213 Opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:10:47am

re: #152 VegasRick

Obama underwear?

You think not?

Some entrepreneur may even bottle "the air that Obama breathes" and there would be buyers.

214 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:11:14am
215 Kenneth  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:11:14am

Not everybody in a so-called "ethnic identity group" sees themselves as a victim needing post-modern white-liberal social justice crap:

In which an Indian rants about something or other

I wrote a post a little while ago about the problems my brother had with the RCMP. You can read the summary of that here. In fact please do before reading on.

Done?

Ok, so after all that, what happens? What happens?

Well let me tell you what didn’t happen - no trial, no charges, no substantial consequences of any sort.

So what do we get? We get to live the wet dream of every weak-kneed, white liberal d*ck suck in this god forsaken country. We get a healing circle. A freaking healing circle. If we were white, Chinese, or black, we could get some justice. But us Indians, we get a healing circle.

This cop messed with my family. I don’t want to sip tea with him, I want him to send him to prison to get gang raped.

You know, the deal we have with the government is that we surrender some of our rights of self defence to them, because at the end of the day, they’ve got our back and will help out when we need them. Forcing my family to smoke a ‘peace pipe’ with a criminal and listen to ‘elders’ bitch is not ‘getting my back’ - it’s f’ing me in the a’.

We’re like third generation atheists, we hate those babbling god-talking ‘elders’ and their facile Hollywood Indianism. We want payback. And if we don’t get justice from them then we will take our right to self defence back.

I know the families of rapists and burglars love these healing circles and alternative justice systems, but us real people, with us it makes the justice system look like some prisoner’s bitch. Many people vote Tory because at the end of the day at least they’ll be tough on criminals. Tarting yourself up and bending over isn’t being tough on criminals. Before Harper starts throwing 14 year old’s in prison, why not throw in a rapist, or a burglar, a home invader, or a dirty cop - every one of these guys playing this Indian dodge should be facing gruel and brutal prison guards right now - though, of course this is the Canadian prison system, so the worst they’ll face is slow internet - but it’s something.

I’m quite angry.

Well said.

216 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:11:43am
217 opnion  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:12:20am

re: #181 ploome hineni

The purpseful decay of America continues.
Illegal immigration will overwhelm this society & will only cease if America becomes undesireable. Hobsons choice.

218 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:12:22am

re: #203 loppyd

I'm good, thanks. My little girl keeps getting bigger. They grow up so fast.

219 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:12:30am

re: #189 J.S.

I've also read that since MAC has switched over to using an Intel chip -- that means virtually all computers now have "Intel Inside" -- it opens up MAC to new vulnerabilities...making it less secure...(Also, so long as C and C+ code are still in use, there will be "exploits").

Do MAC users need to use Norton or McAfee? I'm considering a switch to MAC, but know very little about how it actually works.

220 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:12:37am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey very good choice

221 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:13:09am
222 opnion  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:13:11am

re: #185 Honorary Yooper

I just want to impeach my fucking governor, Rod Blagojevich, worst governor in the entire US. Every time he opens his mouth it's for an even worse idea than his last bad idea.

Who do you think that he will appoint to Obamas Senate Seat?

223 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:13:24am

Via Hot Air:

Nah Nah Nah!

Uncle Wackadoodle sends a warning


Jeremiah Wright apparently has no intention of going away quietly.

Watching the election returns on TV—Wright was apparently not invited to the Grant Park rally—was somewhat bittersweet, he told Sirius XM Radio host Mark Thompson.

“It was like a mixed bag of being proud of him and being blessed to have lived to see something my parents would never have believed was going to happen while at the same time having been put up as the whipping boy by the media to be the weapon of mass destruction to destroy his candidacy,” he said.

Though he hopes to talk with Obama again once he leaves office, he also said he won’t hold back in criticizing Obama’s administration.

“I’ve already told . . . Obama: On Nov. 5, I’m coming after you,” he said. “It’s not you the person . . . it’s the policies of this country. And as long as you are presiding over policies that grind God’s people into the earth, I’m coming after you.["]

It's on.

224 Kragar  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:13:28am

re: #205 Killgore Trout

Jews Ahoy!
Piracy in the Red Sea: Saudi points towards Israel

What? You never heard of Long John Silverstein?

225 Russkilitlover  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:13:29am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Can I nominate Blind Lemon Patterson from New York?

Maybe we should play who has the Best Governor. I think the list of "Worst" is going to be too big.

226 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:14:28am

Bush administration "star" Hank Paulson, today:

Issuance of ABS in these areas reached $240 billion in 2007, but credit market stresses led to a steep decline in the third quarter of 2008, and the market essentially came to a halt in October. As a result, millions of Americans cannot find affordable financing for their basic credit needs. And credit card rates are climbing, making it more expensive for families to finance everyday purchases. This lack of affordable consumer credit undermines consumer spending and as a result weakens our economy.

WTF...how about if people just learn to not buy billions of dollars worth of crap they can't afford?

I still have people bending over backwards to offer me credit...because I've always paid my bills on time, and don't run up huge balances on my credit cards...we pay them off every month. But I don't have a big screen TV, or any kind of stereo, or a fancy car, or fancy clothes, etc.

Why the hell should US taxpayers support folks who refuse to live within their means? Isn't this kind of thinking what got us to this point?

227 Opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:14:30am

re: #195 ploome hineni

what to do?

I have no idea what you have, but whatever it is possibly you got it without doing anything.

If you don't have it installed at least try to get Malicious Software Removal Tool and see if it finds anything.

[Link: www.microsoft.com...]

228 Bumr50  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:15:23am

re: #224 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Ahoy va!

229 Right mind left  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:15:39am

re: #212 Russkilitlover

Let's play Who Has the Worst Governor! I'll add Ahnold to that list and he comes with a long string of flip-flops, bad decisions, tax cut promises and tax increase performances and on and on and on and on.

I think Ohio's Governor Strickland wins hands down, with all the election fraud non-prosecution and rampant lack of firing...

230 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:15:42am

re: #221 ploome hineni

which patch?

/I an computer illiterate


check the web site for viral detection downloads at microsoft

231 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:15:51am

The first prosecution also failed because a leftist graphic artist on the jury despite the evidence, refused to convict under any circumstances.

More importantly, Ayman Zawahiri was and remains the head of the terror arm of the Muslim Brotherhood AND serves as #2 in al Qaeda. Hamas is the Gaza branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and was specifically set up by the MB to make war on Israel. Since the whole lot of these criminal conspirators work together, it is very useful to refute their claims of being nice folks with the more damning truth that they are a sister organization of al Qaeda. CAIR and MAS here in the US are the US branches of the MB.

232 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:15:53am
233 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:16:54am

re: #209 jcm

I win...
One month ago our governor ran claiming a surplus... now we have a $6 Billion deficit!

Do they use kindle instead of actual CPAs?

234 Kenneth  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:16:54am

re: #205 Killgore Trout

Jews Ahoy!
Piracy in the Red Sea: Saudi points towards Israel

Ah, the old "who benefits from making Muslims look like a bunch of ignorant violent misogynist fanatics" argument. Of course, it's the Jooos!

I'm waiting for them to blame the whole screwed up religion of Islam as a plot by the Jooos to make the Muslims look, and act, badly.

Yup, dastardly aren't they?

235 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:17:10am
236 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:17:28am
237 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:17:47am

re: #209 jcm

I win...
One month ago our governor ran claiming a surplus... now we have a $6 Billion deficit!

That's tough to top, but how about this:

My governor added billions of dollars in prospective revenue from casinos to his budget...but there was a slight hitch. Casinos are illegal in MA. And the bill to allow them went down in a ball of flames. Sooo no casinos, no revenue, huge deficit.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

238 WrathofG-d  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:17:53am

re: #234 Kenneth

Ah, the old "who benefits from making Muslims look like a bunch of ignorant violent misogynist fanatics" argument. Of course, it's the Jooos!

I'm waiting for them to blame the whole screwed up religion of Islam as a plot by the Jooos to make the Muslims look, and act, badly.

Yup, dastardly aren't they?

Why would we pirate boats when we already control the countries they are coming from, the countries they are going to, and the banks that benefit?

239 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:18:22am

re: #221 ploome hineni

which patch?

/I an computer illiterate

Run the windows update... it will grab all the most recent updates and patches. MS releases patches and updates on Tuesdays nights, first Tuesday of the month is the always a big release set. If you set your computer up to automatically update early on Wednesday morning you never have to worry about it.

Run you backup on Tuesday morning just to be safe.

240 debutaunt  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:18:27am

re: #212 Russkilitlover

Let's play Who Has the Worst Governor! I'll add Ahnold to that list and he comes with a long string of flip-flops, bad decisions, tax cut promises and tax increase performances and on and on and on and on.

Best Governor? Reagan.

241 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:19:26am

re: #236 ploome hineni

I will


here ploome [Link: www.microsoft.com...]

242 Silhouette  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:19:27am

re: #223 loppyd

And as long as you are presiding over policies that grind God’s people into the earth, I’m coming after you

Gee, I wonder who "God's people" are in this quote.

I am guessing he doesn't mean all Christians or all those that believe and worship God.

243 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:20:21am

re: #237 loppyd

That's tough to top, but how about this:

My governor added billions of dollars in prospective revenue from casinos to his budget...but there was a slight hitch. Casinos are illegal in MA. And the bill to allow them went down in a ball of flames. Sooo no casinos, no revenue, huge deficit.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Casinos! HAH!

Our governor ditched a Indian Casino deal which would have brought in 150 million in revenue. No revenue, a few less slot machines but she got $750,000 in campaign donations from the tribes.

244 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:20:39am

re: #219 debutaunt

There are special anti-virus programs for MAC users (and both Norton and McAfee sell products -- probably some of the Lgf MAC users could recommend which is superior...)...you also need anti-spyware for MAC, etc. (Again, MAC viruses are relatively rare, but they still exist.)

245 Kenneth  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:21:35am

re: #238 WrathofG-d

But the Jooos are forcing the Somalis to be pirates. Otherwise, they would be fishermen or cruise ship operators.

246 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:22:45am
247 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:23:37am
248 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:23:39am

re: #244 J.S.

There are special anti-virus programs for MAC users (and both Norton and McAfee sell products -- probably some of the Lgf MAC users could recommend which is superior...)...you also need anti-spyware for MAC, etc. (Again, MAC viruses are relatively rare, but they still exist.)

Rare to virtually non-existent. I haven't seen a virus, and I'm online alot. Since '92. Most of the current crop of mac viruses included a social engineering component, you have to click on the attachment with the virus and then approve it to run. I've seen those, but don't run programs unless I know what they are.

249 Opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:23:47am

re: #236 ploome hineni

I will

The patch is preventative. It won't remove what you already have.

What symptoms do you have?

You can get HijackThis

[Link: www.download.com...]

Run it and then post your results on such forums as

[Link: www.techsupportforum.com...]

and someone knowlegable may have an answer.

250 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:24:49am
251 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:25:29am

re: #221 ploome hineni

First, if you're using Internet Explorer 7, click on "Tools" (make sure there's a check mark besides "Menu Bar") -- then, go to the Menu Bar, and look for "Tools", click on Tools, then scroll down to Windows Update. Click on Windows Update -- if you download a plug-in, it will scan your computer and figure out which updates (if any) you need...(it also provides a history of all your updating activities...along with which updates were sucessfully installed, and which "failed."...you can also select to have the updates automatically sent to your computer, whenever there's a new update from Microsoft...then determine when/how it's installed...)

252 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:25:30am
253 apachegunner  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:25:55am

re: #249 Opinionated

The patch is preventative. It won't remove what you already have.

What symptoms do you have?

You can get HijackThis

[Link: www.download.com...]

Run it and then post your results on such forums as

[Link: www.techsupportforum.com...]

and someone knowlegable may have an answer.

that site has the malicious software removal program, I think it will

254 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:26:45am
255 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:27:26am

re: #178 lawhawk

Tin ear comment of the day:
Hamid Karzai: NATO must come up with a fixed end date to war.

Memo to Karzai- the duration of the war will be determined by the failure of the enemy (your enemy, al Qaeda and Taliban thugs) to realize that they are not only defeated but utterly destroyed. The war will take as long as necessary, and not a moment sooner.

Actually, I'm ready to just bring all our guys home from Afghanistan right now. Let them know that if any more attacks come to the West, they will be incinerated. F*ck them and their society that approves of throwing acid in the faces of schoolgirls.

If they want to live like civilized human beings instead of animals, let them make the decision and do the hard work to get there.

It's kind of like an alcoholic...until they bottom out and decide to crawl out of the bottle, all the begging and/or "support" they get from outside doesn't do a thing.

256 Opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:29:00am

re: #252 ploome hineni

First thing download and run the Microsoft app I linked to in #227.

It just might result an easy removal of whatever you have.

How are you sure you have something?

257 Opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:29:52am

re: #253 apachegunner

that site has the malicious software removal program, I think it will

I linked that above and that is my advice.

But a patch after the fact is not going to help now.

258 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:32:07am
259 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:32:08am

I bought MacScan, and it found lots of tracking cookies on my iMac. I also run Norton anti-virus for Mac. It's not found anything to remove so far. I guess it might have blocked new viruses though?

260 Kenneth  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:33:07am

re: #255 funky chicken

Most Afghans want nothing to do with the barbaric Taliban. We should not abandon them. Unfortunately, Karzai is corrupt and likes to play one side off against the other as a strategy to stay in power.

261 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:33:46am

re: #259 funky chicken

I bought MacScan, and it found lots of tracking cookies on my iMac. I also run Norton anti-virus for Mac. It's not found anything to remove so far. I guess it might have blocked new viruses though?

Tracking cookies are not necessarily malicious. With online banking they are part of the id process, and can help with account management.

262 Silhouette  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:36:40am

re: #255 funky chicken

F*ck them and their society that approves of throwing acid in the faces of schoolgirls.

I consider that we're there for the school girls.

263 Rancher  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:38:51am

re: #184 vapig

Actually, I'd say the duration of the war is determined by how long it takes his government to get their freakin act together. Same as Iraq.


Well that's true but a little unfair. Afghanistan has never had any sort of central government so institutions such as a national armed force have to begin from scratch. They have begun but the warlords are still in control, especially in the tribal regions. Iraq took awhile but COIN, counter-insurgency, takes years, and as yet we haven't had enough forces to make a significant dent in the Taliban. Couple that with the problem of neighboring Pakistan, which has its own tribal areas that are under limited government control, and we have a very tough nut to crack.

264 Opinionated  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:39:03am

There is a picture with the NY Times story on the verdict.

Of the murdered victims of this "charity"? Guess again.

Of the suffering Israeli widows and orphans? Guess again.

Of the terrorist supporting defendants? Guess again.

Oh the tears:

Image: 25charity_395.JPG

Zolfa Elaydi, center, with her children Fidaa, left, and Jihad, reacting to news that the leaders of a Muslim charity had been convicted on Monday in Dallas.

265 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:40:53am
266 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:41:48am

re: #260 Kenneth

Most Afghans want nothing to do with the barbaric Taliban. We should not abandon them. Unfortunately, Karzai is corrupt and likes to play one side off against the other as a strategy to stay in power.

Sorry, but I'm about all out of patience and altruism for them. Our people have been dying over there for 7 years now. It is simply not the job of the USA to protect every civilian population from the evil bastards inside their own countries.

Karzai was Bush's hand picked guy. Karzai wants us to leave.

Chalabi was Rumsfeld's hand picked guy. Chalabi no tells us to leave Iraq.

I say we give them what they want, with the warning that if they give us trouble in the future, we will not invade and tread lightly, putting our own people at great risk to reduce the threat to civilians. We will f*ck them up beyond recognition.

My husband has spent more time away from his own kids than he has spent home...since the 1990s. His own kids should get more of him than the children of Afghanistan and/or Iraq.

Sorry, but that's just the cold, hard truth.

267 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:44:12am

re: #263 Rancher

Well that's true but a little unfair. Afghanistan has never had any sort of central government so institutions such as a national armed force have to begin from scratch. They have begun but the warlords are still in control, especially in the tribal regions. Iraq took awhile but COIN, counter-insurgency, takes years, and as yet we haven't had enough forces to make a significant dent in the Taliban. Couple that with the problem of neighboring Pakistan, which has its own tribal areas that are under limited government control, and we have a very tough nut to crack.

Right. Never has, but now the USA is on the hook to create a central, cohesive government for a nation that has NEVER had one, and a populace that likely DOESN'T want one?

It's not our problem.

268 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:47:08am

re: #261 jcm

right...I've heard that there isn't a lot of malware for the mac, but we had an online gaming account hacked, and the blizzard guys said it was likely a keystroke logger virus

well, Norton and MacScan didn't find one

dunno what to think now, but at least I'm running protection programs now.

269 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:50:03am

Missing ballots Oh, My!

Minnesota Continues Recount As Concerns About Missing Ballots Grow

"In some instances, the ballots counted in the recount are fewer than the number of persons who voted... In an election this close... these differences are a serious matter," the Democrat

Ahh, it's called an undervote Al, some people didn't vote for you or Coleman.

270 Zimriel  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:50:17am

re: #262 Silhouette

I consider that we're there for the school girls.

And Britain stayed in Kenya for the school girls, so they wouldn't get clitoredectomies. The Kenyans felt otherwise, and kicked us out. Kenya is so much better a place for our absence. To say otherwise would be ...
well, you know.

If the Taliban wants the Yankee to go home, he'll go home.

271 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:51:35am

re: #243 jcm

Casinos! HAH!

Our governor ditched a Indian Casino deal which would have brought in 150 million in revenue. No revenue, a few less slot machines but she got $750,000 in campaign donations from the tribes.

In MA, the governor isn't really in control. It's the House Speaker (and Senate President to a lesser degree) who callsl the shots. Cadillac Deval learned that the hard way. They blocked the casinos he wanted.

Do you live in Michigan?

272 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:52:20am

re: #242 Silhouette

Gee, I wonder who "God's people" are in this quote.

I am guessing he doesn't mean all Christians or all those that believe and worship God.

You are so cynical.

LOL

273 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:52:27am

re: #268 funky chicken

right...I've heard that there isn't a lot of malware for the mac, but we had an online gaming account hacked, and the blizzard guys said it was likely a keystroke logger virus

well, Norton and MacScan didn't find one

dunno what to think now, but at least I'm running protection programs now.

I'd have to disagree with the Blizzard guy, a lot of ways to hack an account. Key logger on a mac is not likely, packet intercept, brute force, or Blizzard's servers being hacked are more likely, and they wouldn't like you to know about the last one.

274 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:53:11am

re: #271 loppyd

In MA, the governor isn't really in control. It's the House Speaker (and Senate President to a lesser degree) who callsl the shots. Cadillac Deval learned that the hard way. They blocked the casinos he wanted.

Do you live in Michigan?

WA, Gregoire of the stolen '04 election.

275 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:53:45am

re: #266 funky chicken

Sorry, but I'm about all out of patience and altruism for them. Our people have been dying over there for 7 years now. It is simply not the job of the USA to protect every civilian population from the evil bastards inside their own countries.

Karzai was Bush's hand picked guy. Karzai wants us to leave.

Chalabi was Rumsfeld's hand picked guy. Chalabi no tells us to leave Iraq.

I say we give them what they want, with the warning that if they give us trouble in the future, we will not invade and tread lightly, putting our own people at great risk to reduce the threat to civilians. We will f*ck them up beyond recognition.

My husband has spent more time away from his own kids than he has spent home...since the 1990s. His own kids should get more of him than the children of Afghanistan and/or Iraq.

Sorry, but that's just the cold, hard truth.

Damn straight. Your guy has obviously done more than his share of service.
Canadians too have been fighting and dying there for years with no end in sight.
And to add insult to injury they (including Karzai's brother) keep right on growing the opium poppies and sending the drugs over here to screw up our children.
I say give'em a very short leash and a strict timeline, and if they are unwilling or unable to get their act together then treat them all as our enemies and...let the chips fall where they may.

276 loppyd  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:56:51am

re: #274 jcm

WA, Gregoire of the stolen '04 election.

You have my sympathies. That was a travesty...

I loved Seattle. Great city...I'd like to go back with someone I don't want to kill next time. :)

277 jcm  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 10:57:45am

re: #276 loppyd

You have my sympathies. That was a travesty...

I loved Seattle. Great city...I'd like to go back with someone I don't want to kill next time. :)

Lot's of things going for us, government is one of them.

278 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 11:14:38am

re: #254 ploome hineni

Btw, there's that US Cert website which details the latest vulnerabilities (including with Apple products, etc. -- can also have an e-mail notification with respect to the latest vulnerabilities)...website here..

279 [deleted]  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 11:16:22am
280 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 11:29:23am

re: #279 ploome hineni

And, uh-oh, might be getting redundant here...but there's Securia, a Danish website..

281 funky chicken  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 11:47:12am

re: #273 jcm

:-)

282 J.S.  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 12:03:39pm

re: #280 J.S.

argh...that's Secunia (not Securia) -- you download a small file from Secunia's website, then do a scan. The program looks for all unpatched, vulnerable software (if unpatched software is found, a link is provided, so you click on the link and get the patch, update, etc.) Oh, and it's free...

283 samhein  Tue, Nov 25, 2008 2:22:43pm

re: #34 Russkilitlover

I don't believe that there was a trial. I haven't seen a single thing about this trial on any news media, other than what Charles posts here. It's like it's not even happening. Tracing terrorist funding is just not sexy enough for the media. It sure would be nice to have this lead the 6:00 news.

I heard this story on the radio last night. I can't remember the show, but I did hear it.

284 sfcmac  Wed, Nov 26, 2008 8:29:14am

It’s about damned time. Now it would be nice if the DOJ went after another terrorist front in this country known as CAIR. No terrorist supporting organization should be permitted to operate within our borders. Come to think of it, The New York Times falls under that category, too.


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