May God comfort the victims, their families and friends, and all of Mumbai.

It might be over, but there's a long road ahead.

Excellent summary and assessment, the one the MSM is not going to do.

Good morning to all. I hope anyone who did any shopping yesterday is mental stable. Are we in a recession? Because it took me a half hour to find a spot at the mall.

previously unknown Muslim group
This sounds shady to me.

re: #1 Sharmuta

May God comfort the victims, their families and friends, and all of Mumbai.

Thank you for that prayer.
Bless you Sharm

re: #6 HoosierHoops

Aww- thank you. And congratulations to your family.

re: #5 NYCHardhat

Only unknown in the fact they hadn't blown anyone up and took credit for it.

The new Pakistani government was making peace overtures such as a "No first nuke" policy. The military was very much against this. This was meant to discredit if not bring down the government of Pakistan and maybe even start a war so the military can step in and save the day.

Later folks

re: #1 Sharmuta

May God comfort the victims, their families and friends, and all of Mumbai.

Amen

It looks like the Pakistani government has a real ugly problem.
It appears that Islamic memebers of the Pakistani Army Officer Corps may have had a lot to do with this.
If that is the case then the government can either purge them & inflame Islamists or let this rogue behavior continue which will probably lead to all out war. Hobsons choice.

re: #10 pingjockey

Later folks

Have a great day ping...later

It was a strike at the heart of India’s financial sector, it was targeted primarily against Westerners and Jews, and it was a message to the incoming Obama administration that the global jihad is alive and well.

We can argue about the tactical importance of this well planned Fedayeen martyr operation.

/strategic epic fail

The strategy behind this attack was well timed, well planned. It operates at many levels.
1. It increases friction between Pakistan and India
2. It destabilizes India and Pakistan at a time of financial crisis.
3. It creates an attack against the west at the furthest reach AQ can get for a big operation right now.
4. It gains more recruits by leveraging the popular Kashmir angle, since the Afghanistan angle is losing recruits.
5. It successfully disrupted peace talks between India and Pakistan.
6. It opens the path for larger recruiting efforts within India.

It will be interesting to see what Darul Uloom will say ...

re: #10 pingjockey

Later folks

See ya ping

re: #9 Rancher

The new Pakistani government was making peace overtures such as a "No first nuke" policy. The military was very much against this. This was meant to discredit if not bring down the government of Pakistan and maybe even start a war so the military can step in and save the day.

Maybe. The Pakistani army and ISI are riddled with Islamist supporters. They might indeed try something to force the government to heel. Both those organizations need to be purged.

re: #5 NYCHardhat

previously unknown Muslim group
This sounds shady to me.

Plato on Knowing that You Don't Know

THEAETETUS: Well, do you see what we're looking for?
VISITOR: I think I see a large, difficult type of ignorance marked off from the others and overshadowing all of them.
THEAETETUS: What's it like?
VISITOR: Not knowing, but thinking that you know. That's what probably causes all the mistakes we make when we think.
THEAETETUS: That's true.
VISITOR: And furthermore it's the only kind of ignorance that's called lack of learning.

re: #8 pingjockey

So if they are not affiliated with Al Qaeda, but they want the downfall of the west and civilzed society.....whats the difference?

Charles

and it was a message to the incoming Obama administration that the global jihad is alive and well.

Not sure about that part Charles. The planning for this had to have started about the time the campaigns started.

How will the MSM spin this?

re: #21 Ron Shaw

How will the MSM spin this?

They'll blame it on the Jews.

re: #21 Ron Shaw

How will the MSM spin this?

The MSM take? "WHAT terrorist attacks in Mumbai?"

Here in Vegas, I even talked to a couple from India who had no idea that terrorists had attacked Mumbai!

re: #15 Thanos

1. It increases friction between Pakistan and India
2. It destabilizes India and Pakistan at a time of financial crisis

/are you sure?

I'm guessing it will take a few days for the Indian government to gather all of the information and come up with some sort of response. We'll see just how much Pakistan cooperates and how far the Indians are willing to push them.

re: #24 Killian Bundy

/are you sure?

Just being "master of the obvious" here :)

re: #20 wahabicorridor

Charles

Not sure about that part Charles. The planning for this had to have started about the time the campaigns started.

But Obama issued a strongly worded statement.
Terrorists everywhere shoul be advised that if they do not behave, more strongly worded statements will follow

re: #21 Ron Shaw

Ahhh, the MSM. It's like listening to crows sing....

re: #15 Thanos

It will be interesting to see what Darul Uloom will say ...

Darul Uloom? (sorry to keep bugging you.)

re: #27 opnion

But Obama issued a strongly worded statement.
Terrorists everywhere shoul be advised that if they do not behave, more strongly worded statements will follow

I'm biting my nails! Obama is really bringing the heat!

/

re: #28 hermit

Ahhh, the MSM. It's like listening to crows sing....

...around a dumpster.

re: #19 NYCHardhat
Exactly how I feel. I can't keep track of all the groups, their countries, their leaders, or their "beef."
I just know they all share the same religion.

re: #5 NYCHardhat

previously unknown Muslim group
This sounds shady to me.

Kinda like internet trolls using a throw-away emaill addy. That "organization" is a front group created for this attack and will certainly be discarded. It's "members" were jihadi cannon fodder for either the Islamists in the Pakistani military/intelligence and/or Al-Qaeda. Or all of them at once.

re: #20 wahabicorridor

Charles

Not sure about that part Charles. The planning for this had to have started about the time the campaigns started.

So it had planning from months to a year ago. That doesn't matter. They didn't make a peep all through September, October, and November knowing that if they struck at that time, McCain would be sitting in the WH.

re: #27 opnion

But Obama issued a strongly worded statement.

Was there a teleprompter involved?

/snark

re: #12 opnion

It looks like the Pakistani government has a real ugly problem.
It appears that Islamic memebers of the Pakistani Army Officer Corps may have had a lot to do with this.
If that is the case then the government can either purge them & inflame Islamists or let this rogue behavior continue which will probably lead to all out war. Hobsons choice.

This is a start.

LAHORE: President Asif Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani have decided to abolish the National Security Council, the institution criticised for eroding the supremacy of elected leadership by providing a greater role to the armed forces in the decision-making process. The NSC was established by former president Pervez Musharraf after toppling the Nawaz government in 1999.

Hat tip Thanos

re: #29 wahabicorridor

Darul Uloom? (sorry to keep bugging you.)

They are the Wahhabbists in India, they released a fatwa against terror but included "state terror" and a rant against "Islamophobia" in the fatwa.

Found this link that further suggest that some of the terrorists were from the UK and more precisely the North of England

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Quote:
Key figures in the terrorist gang were equipped with the devices that meant they were able to monitor British news, even when the authorities turned off power.

A senior officer in the country's elite Black Cat commando unit told the Telegraph, the gunmen were able to trawl the internet for information once they lost cable television feeds to the two luxury hotels and office block.

The men looked beyond the instant updates of the Indian media to find worldwide reaction to the events in Mumbai.

Their analysis of at least five BlackBerry mobile phones recovered suggested the terrorists had links to England.

"There was a lot of content from the English media, not just in London but the Urdu and Arabic sites that are very strong in the north of England," the Commando leader said near the site of the city's third siege at Nariman House. "We have some analysis started on this and we will pass it on to Scotland Yard, no doubt."

re: #23 gmsc

They probably voted for the One.

re: #32 yah

I just know they all share the same religion.

That's one commonality -- I'm of the "Columbo" school of thought for the other....follow the money.

re: #35 wahabicorridor

Was there a teleprompter involved?

/snark

"I will answer that question as soon as the answer appears on my screen."

/

"There is a limit a city can take. This is a very, very different kind of fear. It will be some time before things get back to normal," said Ayesha Dar, a 33-year-old homemaker.

If it has a silmilar affect on the Indians, like us here in the USA after 911, they will redefining ...normal.
I pray that awakening occurs there, just as it did here.
The Islamic Fascists need to be NAMED.

re: #25 The Big C

I'm guessing it will take a few days for the Indian government to gather all of the information and come up with some sort of response. We'll see just how much Pakistan cooperates and how far the Indians are willing to push them.

Pakistan is already sending their chief spy (spy chief, whatever) to help "investigate" the Mumbai attacks.

re: #21 Ron Shaw

How will the MSM spin this?

Until this morning the Chicago Tribune was not willing to concede that these were Islamists.
There is an extremest Hindu Movement, but the probably would not arrive in boats, you know cause they're already there.

re: #5 NYCHardhat

previously unknown Muslim group
This sounds shady to me.

A group of terrorists operating under a sock puppet throwaway name.

The extra "h" is purposeful btw. Like WAHH!

Good morning lizards. I hope this fine Saturday morning finds you all well.

I sure hope Obama wakes up and smells the coffee. This attack could have easily taken place on American soil. May God bless those who were affected by the blasts and may God bless America.

re: #27 opnion

But Obama issued a strongly worded statement.
Terrorists everywhere shoul be advised that if they do not behave, more strongly worded statements will follow

Mimicking the UN already? That should please the "internationalist" bureaucrats at the State Department.

re: #32 yah

Exactly how I feel. I can't keep track of all the groups, their countries, their leaders, or their "beef."
I just know they all share the same religion.

I don't know if it is a religion, to me it seems more like a political movement masquerading under the guise of religios doctrine to obtain funding and new and gullible recruits.

re: #39 NYCHardhat

They probably voted for the One.

Or gave him donations through his website.

re: #23 gmsc

The MSM take? "WHAT terrorist attacks in Mumbai?"

Here in Vegas, I even talked to a couple from India who had no idea that terrorists had attacked Mumbai!

Of course, the old MSM standby...Bush's fault...further evidence of Bush's failed domestic and international policies.

Sad to admit, if it had not been for the events of 9-11-01, I would be a lot less interested in what happened in Mumbai this week. Even sadder to admit, the events of 9-11-01 apparently did not have that effect on very many people here in the US.

re: #38 cagney

Found this link that further suggest that some of the terrorists were from the UK and more precisely the North of England

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Quote:
Key figures in the terrorist gang were equipped with the devices that meant they were able to monitor British news, even when the authorities turned off power.

A senior officer in the country's elite Black Cat commando unit told the Telegraph, the gunmen were able to trawl the internet for information once they lost cable television feeds to the two luxury hotels and office block.

The men looked beyond the instant updates of the Indian media to find worldwide reaction to the events in Mumbai.

Their analysis of at least five BlackBerry mobile phones recovered suggested the terrorists had links to England.

"There was a lot of content from the English media, not just in London but the Urdu and Arabic sites that are very strong in the north of England," the Commando leader said near the site of the city's third siege at Nariman House. "We have some analysis started on this and we will pass it on to Scotland Yard, no doubt."

I hope the Brits start rolling up networks.

re: #26 Thanos

Just being "master of the obvious" here :)

/I think just the opposite, this was counterproductive for them, they went too far, anticipate blowback

re: #52 wrenchwench

Sad to admit, if it had not been for the events of 9-11-01, I would be a lot less interested in what happened in Mumbai this week. Even sadder to admit, the events of 9-11-01 apparently did not have that effect on very many people here in the US.

This is true.

Hi, Lizard Nation!

Here's an interesting piece of news: MUMBAI: Mohammad Ajmal Mohammad Amin Kasab, the only terrorist to have been arrested in connection with the three-day terror attack, shot dead Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare, Mumbai police sources said here on Saturday.

Somehow I'm not surprised that this little POS seems to be singing like a songbird ... somehow I have the impression that the Indian Police is not too concerned about this little POS' 'human rights' ...

Picture of the Cafe at the Oberai trident where many people were gunned down early in the attack. (not graphic)

[Link: www.tajmahalagra.com...]

re: #20 wahabicorridor

Charles

Not sure about that part Charles. The planning for this had to have started about the time the campaigns started.

Not saying it was specifically aimed at Obama -- it's a message to the incoming US administration. If it had been McCain, the message would have been the same.

re: #23 gmsc

The MSM take? "WHAT terrorist attacks in Mumbai?"

Here in Vegas, I even talked to a couple from India who had no idea that terrorists had attacked Mumbai!

My bosses here at the hotel are Indian and they've been watching it live on Indian TV since it began. They are also in favor of invading Pakistan.

...it was a message to the incoming Obama administration that the global jihad is alive and well.

I hope it doesn't get filtered as spam in Obama's mental inbox...

re: #47 poopeedoo

Good morning lizards. I hope this fine Saturday morning finds you all well.

I sure hope Obama wakes up and smells the coffee. This attack could have easily taken place on American soil. May God bless those who were affected by the blasts and may God bless America.

It very well could have, and might be the practice run for like attacks elsewhere.

This was a biggie, no matter how you slice it or spin it. I don't know that it was "India's 9-11," as one commentator put it, but it wasn't a run of the mill truck-bomb or suicide-martyr attack. It was a large operation, with lots of planning, and lots of support.

In short, it doesn't end here. India is at war. Some will say, "No duh, they've been at war for a long time, Hindus v. Muslim extremists." That's true, but it was just simmering for a long time. Now it's on full boil.

re: #54 Killian Bundy

/I think just the opposite, this was counterproductive for them, they went too far, anticipate blowback

I'm hoping you are right, but they just postponed the Sir River Talks, which isn't a good sign.

re: #53 MandyManners

I hope the Brits start rolling up networks.

Not likely, sad to say. They don't have a particularly stellar record in that regard... even after the 7/7 London bombings.

With the high level of training, preparation, and coordination these terrorists showed ...

Gunning down unarmed civilians, including women and children, is what muslims do best. The only reason we're losing is because the western world has lost all self-confidence and self-respect. B. Hussein Obama will hand them our heads on a platter.

re: #38 cagney

Key figures in the terrorist gang were equipped with the devices that meant they were able to monitor British news, even when the authorities turned off power.

Yeah. They're called Blackberries.

morons

re: #5 NYCHardhat

previously unknown Muslim group
This sounds shady to me.

Don't go by the name - it's a throw-away name to divert attention from one of the more likely culprits. Heck, we've regularly seen this with the Palestinians.

re: #27 opnion

But Obama issued a strongly worded statement.
Terrorists everywhere shoul be advised that if they do not behave, more strongly worded statements will follow

To be quickly followed by 'hope' and 'change' and 'yes you can'...if escalation of unvetted verbosity verbage is warranted from the ruler of the office of the president elect!

re: #58 Charles

Not saying it was specifically aimed at Obama -- it's a message to the incoming US administration. If it had been McCain, the message would have been the same.

agreed.

I wonder if this plot wasn't in the can a while back waiting for the trigger. And then Rashid Rauf got nixed last weekend.

66 got tagged and banned.

Lobby of the Oberai Trident where the Mother Fuckers first started shooting.. [Link: foto.india.ru...]

re: #58 Charles

It's not only a message to the US, but to the Indian government and to test the resolve of the West in general. Disrupt closer ties between Pakistan and India for starters, create conditions for a possible war between the two countries that the Islamists could exploit, and to reduce pressure on the Islamists in the frontier provinces if Pakistan has to focus on India rather than dealing with the Islamist threat from within.

re: #53 MandyManners

Can't see it, the main parties over here are too busy chasing the Muslim vote to do this.

re: #72 NYCHardhat

66 got tagged and banned.

What was it about?

re: #6 HoosierHoops

Good Morning HoosierHoops!

[HoosierHoops]

Tried to greet you on the other thread, but you popped over here.
I've been busy teaching and we had some big news.
Mr. Songbird got offered a job in the Dept of Commerce. Looks like I'm moving to DC this coming year.

Also, My sister is here for the Thanksgiving break! She's with an band called "God Made Robots"

re: #72 NYCHardhat

66 got tagged and banned.

I don't see banned. His comment was deleted, that's all.

re: #76 gclaghorn

I don't know. They are no longer an LGF blogger. Click on the football.

re: #43 gmsc

Pakistan is already sending their chief spy (spy chief, whatever) to help "investigate" the Mumbai attacks.

They must be just a tiny bit frightened ...

Look at this: Mumbai (PTI): The Maharashtra government on Saturday said it has "enough proof" that the terrorists involved in Mumbai attacks were in constant touch with their masters in Pakistan, giving updates on their every move and taking orders.

"We have enough proof that they called Pakistan while carrying out the attack. We have enough proof regarding that. All phone calls made by them had been tapped," state's Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil told reporters here.

re: #59 Rancher

My bosses here at the hotel are Indian and they've been watching it live on Indian TV since it began. They are also in favor of invading Pakistan.

And I'm sure that the holder of the pretend office of president-elect will strongly condemn such action. If he's really angry about it, he might even set it down on paper with his own signature!

It will take a while to sort out responsibility. There are reports that some of the attackers were British nationals originally from Pakistan. India has taken a couple of Pakistani ships into custody for investigation. Going by the evidence that the attackers had very good local intelligence, there must have been considerable involvement of Indian nationals. This wasn't a purely foreign-based attack; it wasn't a Pakistani commando operation pretending to be "Deccan mujahideen".

Pakistan has all sorts of internal divisions. The central government cannot control what goes on in the tribal regions, and it would seem that it cannot even control what goes on in its own ISI. This means that it is possible that the attack had major help from within Pakistan with training areas, funding, and weapons, and yet is still not the doing of what passes for a central government there.

If so, one policy might be to ask that government for help in hunting down those responsible and killing them (nothing less will suffice, because justice demands it, and pardons rain down gently on terrorists convicted and sent away until the furor dies down). If such help is forthcoming, India and the world community should hold Pakistan-the-Nation-State not guilty. If it is not, well, that would have to impact trade relations and security arrangements. Pakistan's economy is in trouble as it is; they surely don't want these kind of consequences.

This whole situation is dangerous. Pakistan has nukes. India has nukes. The U.S. is entangled with Pakistan because of Afghanistan, and there, too, Pakistan has been helpful with the official hand even while elements within Pakistan but outside the control of the government have helped our enemies.

Tempers are frayed. A furious determination to avenge these attacks at all costs might cost millions of lives.

Nevermind. My mistake.

re: #65 Peter Verkooijen

Gunning down unarmed civilians, including women and children, is what muslims do best. The only reason we're losing is because the western world has lost all self-confidence and self-respect. B. Hussein Obama will hand them our heads on a platter.

Why do people suggest that these loons were well trained?
Any group of maniacs with grenades, high powered rifles and lots of ammo can kill unarmd civilians.
Gees... these guys were ruthless thugs and murderers who had access to weapons, not military professionals.

Obama made a lot of promises during the campaign about taking the fight to "America's real enemies," which I guess means the Taliban and Al Qaeda "folks" in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I don't expect him to follow up on those promises with any force of new commitment, but it will be interesting to see how he deals with the oncoming shift of the major front of the WoT to Pakistan.

There will come a point when India will not longer be able to contain its anger towards Pakistan. My guess is there are factions with the Pakistani military and intelligence that want a conflict with India. Why, is beyond me. The Pakistani government cannot sit there and play dumb with this one. They already throw up their hands when it comes to the Taliban assholes that live in their territory. Now, it is clear these guys had training that is beyond the Taliban or Al Oaida. Who else trained and equipped them then? Pakistan will become a bigger problem for Obama than Iran.

re: #15 Thanos

One has to ask, was this scheduled around the US elections, US Thanksgiving? Or was it going to occur in this timeframe, whatever hook they could find to hang it on?

I think it a mistake to tie deeds of jihad to any external events, it is more or less a stochastic process, the average level may be rising in recent years, but the individual events are still effectively random, as meaningless as the chaos they represent.

re: #79 NYCHardhat

I don't know. They are no longer an LGF blogger. Click on the football.

They haven't been banned yet. Comment just deleted, is all.

It would be very unwise to let any Muslim near the song bird.

re: #80 yma o hyd

They must be just a tiny bit frightened ...

Look at this: Mumbai (PTI): The Maharashtra government on Saturday said it has "enough proof" that the terrorists involved in Mumbai attacks were in constant touch with their masters in Pakistan, giving updates on their every move and taking orders.

"We have enough proof that they called Pakistan while carrying out the attack. We have enough proof regarding that. All phone calls made by them had been tapped," state's Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil told reporters here.

Wow. I would be surprised of both sides are able to show restraint.

re: #79 NYCHardhat

I don't know. They are no longer an LGF blogger. Click on the football.

I don't see a ban there.

re: #63 Thanos

I'm hoping you are right, but they just postponed the Sir River Talks, which isn't a good sign.

/they killed Israeli citizens, write your will

re: #49 shanec99

I don't know if it is a religion, to me it seems more like a political movement masquerading under the guise of religios doctrine to obtain funding and new and gullible recruits.

It all ties in, religion, politics & nationalism.

Pakistan exists because after independence from Britan Muslims did not want to live iin a Hindu society, even with freedom to practice Islam.
To me it seems like the root of the problem circles back to Islam.

Charles -

"...to Obama, from Osama, with love?..."

-S-

The hospital shootings in Mumbai (warning somewhat graphic)

[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...]

re: #82 lostlakehiker

It will take a while to sort out responsibility. There are reports that some of the attackers were British nationals originally from Pakistan. India has taken a couple of Pakistani ships into custody for investigation. Going by the evidence that the attackers had very good local intelligence, there must have been considerable involvement of Indian nationals. This wasn't a purely foreign-based attack; it wasn't a Pakistani commando operation pretending to be "Deccan mujahideen".

Pakistan has all sorts of internal divisions. The central government cannot control what goes on in the tribal regions, and it would seem that it cannot even control what goes on in its own ISI. This means that it is possible that the attack had major help from within Pakistan with training areas, funding, and weapons, and yet is still not the doing of what passes for a central government there.

If so, one policy might be to ask that government for help in hunting down those responsible and killing them (nothing less will suffice, because justice demands it, and pardons rain down gently on terrorists convicted and sent away until the furor dies down). If such help is forthcoming, India and the world community should hold Pakistan-the-Nation-State not guilty. If it is not, well, that would have to impact trade relations and security arrangements. Pakistan's economy is in trouble as it is; they surely don't want these kind of consequences.

This whole situation is dangerous. Pakistan has nukes. India has nukes. The U.S. is entangled with Pakistan because of Afghanistan, and there, too, Pakistan has been helpful with the official hand even while elements within Pakistan but outside the control of the government have helped our enemies.

Tempers are frayed. A furious determination to avenge these attacks at all costs might cost millions of lives.

And Obama has it all to figure out. *gulp*

I think it may also slow the corporate stampede out of the West and into India. How much are the cheap operating costs really saving you in the big picture.

re: #56 yma o hyd

Hi, Lizard Nation!

Here's an interesting piece of news: MUMBAI: Mohammad Ajmal Mohammad Amin Kasab, the only terrorist to have been arrested in connection with the three-day terror attack, shot dead Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare, Mumbai police sources said here on Saturday.

Somehow I'm not surprised that this little POS seems to be singing like a songbird ... somehow I have the impression that the Indian Police is not too concerned about this little POS' 'human rights' ...

Good morning, {yma}

Water boarding? Surfs up on the intell!

See my 83

Words have really failed me during this attack- I've just thought about my Mumbai friend and prayed his family was alright.

But I'd like to say thanks to Thanos for such informative comments the last few days. You've been invaluable, Thanos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

re: #77 songbird

Good Morning HoosierHoops!

[HoosierHoops]

Tried to greet you on the other thread, but you popped over here.
I've been busy teaching and we had some big news.
Mr. Songbird got offered a job in the Dept of Commerce. Looks like I'm moving to DC this coming year.

Also, My sister is here for the Thanksgiving break! She's with an band called "God Made Robots"

{songbird} long time no see.

re: #77 songbird

Looks like I'm moving to DC this coming year.

Hey songbird! I'm in the neighborhood - if you need anything (tips re: schools, neighborhoods, etc.,) just ask.

nic is blue

re: #84 shanec99

Gees... these guys were ruthless thugs and murderers who had access to weapons, not military professionals.

Uh, you forgot your sarc tag
Please tell me you forgot your SARC TAG!

re: #85 garycooper

Obama made a lot of promises during the campaign about taking the fight to "America's real enemies," which I guess means the Taliban and Al Qaeda "folks" in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I don't expect him to follow up on those promises with any force of new commitment, but it will be interesting to see how he deals with the oncoming shift of the major front of the WoT to Pakistan.

I think you may have misunderstood the great 'One'.

"America's real enemies" = Conservatives and Republicans in the eyes of this upcoming administration.

/

re: #98 jorline

Good morning, {yma}

Water boarding? Surfs up on the intell!

Water boarding followed by hanging. His reward for spilling him guts should be to hung instead of being thrust in a cell with 10 Hindus who know who he is.

re: #95 ColdPizza
good lord.

re: #84 shanec99

Why do people suggest that these loons were well trained?

Actually, it's the Pakistani commandos - the Black Cats - who are saying it.

re: #84 shanec99

How do you know there weren't any militarily-trained leaders among them? An attack by water, well-coordinated attacks on strategic targets, and some of them were reported to be "excellent marksmen" by Indian commandos/police who were fighting them. Yes, they were thugs, fanatics and scum, but that doesn't mean they were total rubes who just happened to come across some weaponry.

re: #104 Oh no...Sand People!

You are correct. He is determined to bring the fight to us.

re: #84 shanec99

Why do people suggest that these loons were well trained?
Any group of maniacs with grenades, high powered rifles and lots of ammo can kill unarmd civilians.
Gees... these guys were ruthless thugs and murderers who had access to weapons, not military professionals.

They had escape routes established. They had access to the Internet after the power was cut. They attacked 10 places. They didn't go in to commit suicide bombings.

re: #103 hermit

Uh, you forgot your sarc tag
Please tell me you forgot your SARC TAG!

Do I need to say the obvious?

re: #64 Spiny Norman

Not likely, sad to say. They don't have a particularly stellar record in that regard... even after the 7/7 London bombings.

True.
They're more interested in using the anti-terror laws against Icelandic banks (freezing their assers), and against leading opposition MPs: Sending counter-terrorist officers to the home of an MP was outrageous ...

re: #100 Sharmuta

Words have really failed me during this attack- I've just thought about my Mumbai friend and prayed his family was alright.

But I'd like to say thanks to Thanos for such informative comments the last few days. You've been invaluable, Thanos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

Seconded. Thank you Thanos!

re: #56 yma o hyd

Hi, Lizard Nation!

Here's an interesting piece of news: MUMBAI: Mohammad Ajmal Mohammad Amin Kasab, the only terrorist to have been arrested in connection with the three-day terror attack, shot dead Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare, Mumbai police sources said here on Saturday.

Somehow I'm not surprised that this little POS seems to be singing like a songbird ... somehow I have the impression that the Indian Police is not too concerned about this little POS' 'human rights' ...

So what happened to these three?

Police sources said an injured terrorist captured during the fighting at the Taj Mahal hotel was tentatively identified as Ajmal Amir Kamal, a resident of Faridkot, near Multan, in Pakistan’s Punjab province.

Highly-placed police sources said two other Pakistani nationals had also been held in the course of intense fighting on Thursday.

re: #15 Thanos

It will also take Pakistani troops away from the northwest frontier where al-Qaeda plans, and puts them on the Indian border. It'll take troops away from the al-Qaeda's safe-haven.

re: #87 itellu3times

I would say that it was timed not to happen before the elections, other than that I'm not so sure that Thanksgiving had anything to do with it.

On another note, Hate Cleric Choudhary blames UK for the attacks.

re: #77 songbird

Good Morning HoosierHoops!

[HoosierHoops]

Tried to greet you on the other thread, but you popped over here.
I've been busy teaching and we had some big news.
Mr. Songbird got offered a job in the Dept of Commerce. Looks like I'm moving to DC this coming year.

Also, My sister is here for the Thanksgiving break! She's with an band called "God Made Robots"

Dang it,,Sure is good to hear from you!
mama is up and making breakfast...talk to you soon

re: #95 ColdPizza

The hospital shootings in Mumbai (warning somewhat graphic)

[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...]

......

re: #97 mich-again

I think it may also slow the corporate stampede out of the West and into India. How much are the cheap operating costs really saving you in the big picture.

India is the best hope for the future of democracy, capitalism and science. The more cooperation the better.

re: #112 shanec99

Do I need to say the obvious?

Dude! You had me sooo worried there. I thought you had some kool-aid and .....whew, man I was scared!

re: #115 Rancher

Rancher -

As to what happened to the other three - Does It Really Matter Under the Circumstances?

-S-

re: #116 footballrules

It will also take Pakistani troops away from the northwest frontier where al-Qaeda plans, and puts them on the Indian border. It'll take troops away from the al-Qaeda's safe-haven.

Great point, and I missed that angle.

"In the U.S., President-elect Barack Obama said he was closely monitoring the situation. "These terrorists who targeted innocent civilians will not defeat India's great democracy, nor shake the will of a global coalition to defeat them," he said in a statement.

Vague and non-committal. How about "nor shake our commitment to defeat radical Islam." yeah, that'll happen.

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

No, that looks worse. We can get what we need without mutilating this guy, so we should avoid mutilation. We won't win over lefties, but it is wise for India to see this man intact at trial and execution.

Paging Mr. Waterboarding . . .

Perhaps the Mumbai terrorists just need to see 0bama smile. After all, "his confident smile and kind eyes are an inspiration to us all."

Speaking of Pakistan and finances, aren't they in danger of going bankrupt?

re: #65 Peter Verkooijen

Gunning down unarmed civilians, including women and children, is what muslims do best. The only reason we're losing is because the western world has lost all self-confidence and self-respect. B. Hussein Obama will hand them our heads on a platter.

...no doubt we will supply them with the platters too.

re: #104 Oh no...Sand People!

Probably so, but I'm going to pester my local newspaper with letters asking them about this campaign promise. Obama promised us Osama, on a platter! And the local rag endorsed him gushingly, even referring to this specific promise.

Eh, it's something to do on a cold winter's night.

re: #127 gmsc

Perhaps the Mumbai terrorists just need to see 0bama smile. After all, "his confident smile and kind eyes are an inspiration to us all."

Well, he can turn the world on with his smile . . .

re: #108 garycooper
I know lots of people who can follow a plan but are not well trained military professionals.
I know lots of people who can shoot a rifle who are not military people. These people were thughs and muderers who embarked on a trip to kill unarmed civilians and terrorize a nation.
Thugs and murderers is all they were. The world may be better off because of their demise.

re: #5 NYCHardhat

previously unknown Muslim group
This sounds shady to me.

Mark Steyn had an interesting take on this this morning in the Orange County Register. You can find it at RealClearPolitics (my attempt at a link didn't work).

The gist of his argument is that the important thig here is not the "group", but the overarching ideology. The ideology of radical Islamism makes it easy for someone from any radical Islamist group to go to any place where he can find mosques or madrassas preaching the 'party line', and find plenty of ready-made recruits. They've already been conditioned to be obedient to their "teachers", to be martyrs for their beliefs, and to kill unbelievers. All the "leader" has to do is supply the plan, the equipment, and the list of targets. The claim of responsibility in the name of a group who no one ever heard of is mainly a psywar trick to make the enemy (i.e., the rest of humanity) think that they're up against a powerful, supranational organization that is unstoppable- so they'd better surrender right now if they know what's good for them.

Personally, I think this is exactly the sort of "argument" that would work on The Exalted One. Remember how near we came to surrendering to the now-defunct USSR under his idol, Jimmy Carter. Like Jimmy, I believe The One is determined to remake America in his own image domestically, and to make us a "good neighbor" internationally (in the "progressive" meaning of the term)- and part of that is being "accepting of differences", even with those who, as Steyn points out, really won't be satisfied until everyone who isn't exactly like them is dead, regardless of religious, national, or ethnic affiliations. (Including the majority of their fellow Muslims, once they've 86'd everybody else.)

The Islamists believe The One can be rolled. This was the first step in their campaign to do so. My guess is, it will work.

/just IMHO

cheers

eon

Sick Bastards. (regarding the Chabbad house)

"Defense Minister Ehud Barak told Channel 1 TV that some of the victims had been bound, and the two women had been killed many hours before their bodies were retrieved"

re: #112 shanec99

BTW - Do not do that again. I don't wanna have to fix you up after the *whacking*...mmmkay? K.

re: #117 Thanos

I would say that it was timed not to happen before the elections, other than that I'm not so sure that Thanksgiving had anything to do with it.

On another note, Hate Cleric Choudhary blames UK for the attacks.

Outspoken Choudary, whose family live on £25,000-a-year benefits in London, raged: “Any Britons or Americans who visit Muslim countries are entering a battlefield and risk being used as hostages by al-Qaida to publicise its cause.”

And this guy is not in jail or deported because.................

*sniff*

re: #87 itellu3times

One has to ask, was this scheduled around the US elections, US Thanksgiving? Or was it going to occur in this timeframe, whatever hook they could find to hang it on?

I think it a mistake to tie deeds of jihad to any external events, it is more or less a stochastic process, the average level may be rising in recent years, but the individual events are still effectively random, as meaningless as the chaos they represent.

Its not been confirmed, but I heard someone speculate on Thursday that this was aimed to coincide with the local elections just taking place in india today, and that it was brought forward because one of the presumptive planenrs was arrested last week at Heathrow - alledgedly the terrorist brought this forward because they feared their plot might have been comrpomised.

re: #125 bellamags

Vague and non-committal. How about "nor shake our commitment to defeat radical Islam." yeah, that'll happen.

It seems we are going to have four years of 'test the waters to keep my image perfect' rhetoric before he is willing to take any action. Weak.

re: #87 itellu3times

One has to ask, was this scheduled around the US elections, US Thanksgiving? Or was it going to occur in this timeframe, whatever hook they could find to hang it on?

I think it a mistake to tie deeds of jihad to any external events, it is more or less a stochastic process, the average level may be rising in recent years, but the individual events are still effectively random, as meaningless as the chaos they represent.

If you get the terrorism.com daily, you'll see anytime is a good time for them - even if they want to base on a "certain day in history".

India now believes that 10 people did all this! 8 have been killed and found, one captured, and one missing but believed dead. 19 men pulled off 9/11, 10 did this week's attack. We all better stand up for the defense of the Patriot Act when it comes under attack. Intelligence and information is all that can stop small groups hell-bent on killing hundreds or thousands.

One other note, it's reached the pt in India where the politicos will start spinning, and RAW ( the Indian Intel agency,) is known to spin on occasion as well. They will work to tie this to ISI where ever they can, there are some in India looking for the final war with Pakistan as well. Don't think it will go there, cooler heads usually prevail in that agency.

re: #102 wahabicorridor

Hey songbird! I'm in the neighborhood - if you need anything (tips re: schools, neighborhoods, etc.,) just ask.

nic is blue

E-mail flying in your direction now!

re: #12 opnion

It looks like the Pakistani government has a real ugly problem.
It appears that Islamic memebers of the Pakistani Army Officer Corps may have had a lot to do with this.
If that is the case then the government can either purge them & inflame Islamists or let this rogue behavior continue which will probably lead to all out war. Hobsons choice.

Pakistan is on the brink of Civil War. A nuclear tipped Islamic Catastrophe.

Charles is right. This operation was not some liquor store holdup. This was a major score, took time, practice, and a lot of money and technical skill. What is most disturbing for me is the fact that India's Terror Response Unit's leaders were killed early on. That does not happen by accident. That had to be calculated.

re: #136 VegasRick

Outspoken Choudary, whose family live on £25,000-a-year benefits in London, raged: “Any Britons or Americans who visit Muslim countries are entering a battlefield and risk being used as hostages by al-Qaida to publicise its cause.”

And this guy is not in jail or deported because.................

That loon thinks India's a Muslim country?

Just asking, does anybody think that before the Indian interrogators try to extract information from the captured terrorists, that they are consulting attorney's to determine which techniques are permissible?

re: #139 Oh no...Sand People!

It seems we are going to have four years of 'test the waters to keep my image perfect' rhetoric before he is willing to take any action. Weak.

bingo

re: #112 shanec99

Sarc or not, when you targets are unarmed people, not expecting an attack, and your only goal is to kill as many people as possible, it does not take much training. When your targets can shoot back, that's when it becomes hard.

The coordination and sophisticated timing suggest a high level of preparation. The actual monsters that carried out the cowardly attack just had to know how to shoot and reload.

re: #128 quickslow87

Speaking of Pakistan and finances, aren't they in danger of going bankrupt?

They were until recently, they pulled down a huge IMF loan.

re: #122 hermit

Dude! You had me sooo worried there. I thought you had some kool-aid and .....whew, man I was scared!

Well I do like cool-aid on a hot day when I cant get lemons.

re: #145 MandyManners

That loon thinks India's a Muslim country?

He thinks every country is a Muslim country. They just haven't taken their rightful control of them all yet.

It will not take any effort to make this guy sing. He reminds me of the Laughing Bali Loon.

re: #145 MandyManners

That loon thinks India's a Muslim country?

That loon thinks Britan is a Muslim country!

re: #133 eon

Mark Steyn had an interesting take on this this morning in the Orange County Register. You can find it at RealClearPolitics (my attempt at a link didn't work).

The gist of his argument is that the important thig here is not the "group", but the overarching ideology. The ideology of radical Islamism makes it easy for someone from any radical Islamist group to go to any place where he can find mosques or madrassas preaching the 'party line', and find plenty of ready-made recruits. They've already been conditioned to be obedient to their "teachers", to be martyrs for their beliefs, and to kill unbelievers. All the "leader" has to do is supply the plan, the equipment, and the list of targets. The claim of responsibility in the name of a group who no one ever heard of is mainly a psywar trick to make the enemy (i.e., the rest of humanity) think that they're up against a powerful, supranational organization that is unstoppable- so they'd better surrender right now if they know what's good for them.

Personally, I think this is exactly the sort of "argument" that would work on The Exalted One. Remember how near we came to surrendering to the now-defunct USSR under his idol, Jimmy Carter. Like Jimmy, I believe The One is determined to remake America in his own image domestically, and to make us a "good neighbor" internationally (in the "progressive" meaning of the term)- and part of that is being "accepting of differences", even with those who, as Steyn points out, really won't be satisfied until everyone who isn't exactly like them is dead, regardless of religious, national, or ethnic affiliations. (Including the majority of their fellow Muslims, once they've 86'd everybody else.)

The Islamists believe The One can be rolled. This was the first step in their campaign to do so. My guess is, it will work.

/just IMHO

cheers

eon

If I could double up ding you I would.

re: #153 VegasRick

That loon thinks Britan is a Muslim country!

It's getting there!

re: #141 footballrules

India now believes that 10 people did all this! 8 have been killed and found, one captured, and one missing but believed dead. 19 men pulled off 9/11, 10 did this week's attack. We all better stand up for the defense of the Patriot Act when it comes under attack. Intelligence and information is all that can stop small groups hell-bent on killing hundreds or thousands.

You had me until the 'Patriot Act' part...

/but that's just me.

re: #142 Thanos

There has to be a breaking point with India though. They will get poked in the eye one too many times one day. I hope it does not come to that, it would be very bad.

re: #98 jorline

Hiya, {jorline}!

Actually, I think this little POS is singing because its crapping its pants every minute ... these terrorists were not anticipating to be caught, they hadn't even masked their faces.
They were not prepared for interrogations of any kind, with or without intel surf.
I don't think their mental resilience is comparable in any way to that of trained agents - or even to that of the SOE lady agents in WWII ...

re: #141 footballrules

India now believes that 10 people did all this! 8 have been killed and found, one captured, and one missing but believed dead. 19 men pulled off 9/11, 10 did this week's attack. We all better stand up for the defense of the Patriot Act when it comes under attack. Intelligence and information is all that can stop small groups hell-bent on killing hundreds or thousands.

I thought it was 60? Down to 10?

Besides the two hotels, the hospital (!) and the Chabad center, what were the other sites? Is it true that they started with a police station to get uniforms?
How many total terrorists were there to create this level of havoc?

I've haven't seen any of this on the FNN news. However, I did see an old interview with a smirking Joran Van der Sloot. Twice.

re: #160 FightingBack

Besides the two hotels, the hospital (!) and the Chabad center, what were the other sites? Is it true that they started with a police station to get uniforms?
How many total terrorists were there to create this level of havoc?

I've haven't seen any of this on the FNN news. However, I did see an old interview with a smirking Joran Van der Sloot. Twice.

Train station.

re: #159 NYCHardhat

That's the "official" Indian claim. It seems impossible, and will probably change, but that's what they are saying.

re: #77 songbird

Mr. Songbird got offered a job in the Dept of Commerce. Looks like I'm moving to DC this coming year.

Good morning Mrs. Richardson!

re: #132 shanec99

They did get training, they were better skilled than the average college student sucked off the street. Pakistan and Afghanistan invented insurgency. They had terrorist training, not military, there are universes of difference between the two but everyone needs to recognize that the Pashtuns have been insurgents for 2K years or better, and they taught AQ more than AQ taught them.

re: #159 NYCHardhat

From what I can tell, reports suggest 10 of the terrorists entered the city by boat. An unknown number entered by different means. The only hard number is apparently those that came ashore.

re: #92 Killian Bundy

/they killed Israeli citizens, write your will

If your implication is that Israel will avenge its citizens, you must be thinking about some other Israel of old.

Today's Israel is a danger to its citizens.

Never mind the rockets exploding on Israel, there is a cease fire going on.

Today's CEASE FIRE news

Soldier loses leg in mortar shell attack

One of eight soldiers wounded in a Palestinian mortar shell attack on an IDF base at Nahal Oz lost his leg on Saturday as a result of wounds he sustained the previous day.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Don't you for a minute believe Israel didn't retaliate. They did the way the have done throughout this "cease fire". They issued a threat. But the cease fire remains.

re: #123 Dr. Shalit

Rancher -

As to what happened to the other three - Does It Really Matter Under the Circumstances?

-S-

I'm just wondering how accurate the story was. Those three "captured terrorists" are the ones that tie this to the ISI.

re: #148 Desert Dog

They lasted 60 hours against the Indian equivalent of Delta force and the Seals. I'm going to say they weren't just pulled off the street.

re: #165 lawhawk

From what I can tell, reports suggest 10 of the terrorists entered the city by boat. An unknown number entered by different means. The only hard number is apparently those that came ashore.

I wonder how many supporters did they have in India whose identities they don't know.

Charles' comment following the article excerpt is spot on. It is only beginning. I feel safe only because I know the caliber of the men and women who lay their lives on the line for us.

re: #163 Rancher

Good morning Mrs. Richardson!

Did I tell you we are living in NM right now and Richardson will be Mr. Songbird's big boss? ha ha

There are many here in NM that are glad Dianne Denish will be taking over as Gov in NM as she is more moderate than Richardson.

Condolences to those killed and a speedy recovery to the wounded.

re: #168 Thanos

They lasted 60 hours against the Indian equivalent of Delta force and the Seals. I'm going to say they weren't just pulled off the street.

Of course they weren't. They were soldiers.

re: #158 yma o hyd

Hiya, {jorline}!

Actually, I think this little POS is singing because its crapping its pants every minute ... these terrorists were not anticipating to be caught, they hadn't even masked their faces.
They were not prepared for interrogations of any kind, with or without intel surf.
I don't think their mental resilience is comparable in any way to that of trained agents - or even to that of the SOE lady agents in WWII ...

I had read where these guys thought they would escape by sea as well...no plans on getting captured. I'm sure that the interrogators will not cut the surviving terrorists any slack.

re: #145 MandyManners

That loon thinks India's a Muslim country?

He thinks that any country with a notable number of Muslims is a Muslim country. If said Muslims do not run that country, then that just means that Jihad must be waged there until Sharia reigns there. He is a tyrant of the first order.

Messages huh? Message to whom?

The message from Mumbai is directed at the entire non-muslim world! it is simple.

"Pissants! You have not even the courage to publicly proclaim the enemy, let alone war in self defense against it! We can strike you, without mercy, anywhere, at any time that we choose to do so, because you will not speak the reality of who we, the ruthless enemy, are. We are ISLAM! Whisper it! do not speak it aloud! Shhhh."

Even here at LGF, to call for violence against the enemy is grounds for banning! What have they to do before we call for, demand, and conduct a war in our own defense against ISLAM? A war that is ruthless, cruel, and unrestricted!...and absolutely necessary for our survival!

What will it take?

We are so permeated, so poisoned, so emasculated, by Political Correctness that I am not certain that even here, this post will not be deleted. Sad comment on ourselves, and our times.

re: #165 lawhawk

From what I can tell, reports suggest 10 of the terrorists entered the city by boat. An unknown number entered by different means. The only hard number is apparently those that came ashore.

At one point Thursday I had it pegged at about 17-20 from the various reports. I'm betting leaders, RDX, and Weapons arrived by boat, but met SIMI and IM people there. Then there's the logistics people who are probably still out there.

re: #168 Thanos

I know nothing about these things except what "experts" on TV and newspaper say. They seem to feel that Deccan Mujahadeen is nothing. Rather, they are probabaly one, or both, of two groups that have agitated and fought in Kashmir and had been trained and supported by ISI. However, the "experts" do not believe the ISI had any idea of this attck; however, if true, the ISI created the militants who did this. I hope not, because India and Pakistan could be heading for a terrible destination (which is exactly what these monsters wnat to do).

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

Messages huh? Message to whom?

The message from Mumbai is directed at the entire non-muslim world! it is simple.

Even here at LGF, to call for violence against the enemy is grounds for banning! What have they to do before we call for, demand, and conduct a war in our own defense against ISLAM? A war that is ruthless, cruel, and unrestricted!...and absolutely necessary for our survival!

What will it take?

We are so permeated, so poisoned, so emasculated, by Political Correctness that I am not certain that even here, this post will not be deleted. Sad comment on ourselves, and our times.

A.M.E.N.

/If I only had more dings to give.

re: #158 yma o hyd

Hiya, {jorline}!

Actually, I think this little POS is singing because its crapping its pants every minute ... these terrorists were not anticipating to be caught, they hadn't even masked their faces.
They were not prepared for interrogations of any kind, with or without intel surf.
I don't think their mental resilience is comparable in any way to that of trained agents - or even to that of the SOE lady agents in WWII ...

Good point. He expected to die and meet his 72 virgins. Instead he's getting a personal demonstration of the effectiveness of waterboarding (or at least I hope he is).

re: #168 Thanos

So, do you think they learned their skills in the mountains with the Pashtuns or down in the valley with the ISI? Or both?

re: #115 Rancher

I think this may still be due to quite a bit of confusion on Indian sides.
For example, a British actor was one of the people in the Leopold Restaurant when it was attacked. He told the Beeb this morning that after the police got them all out, he was singled out and had great difficulties convincing the police that he was not one of the terrorists.
Reason? He's of Indian origin, and had just finished a backpacking tour, looking slightly dishevelled, with stubble on his chin. His friend, another British man of Indian origin, ended up in hospital.
I can easily see how such occurrences can give rise to all the rumours flying about.

I'm sure the Indian police will get to the bottom of it - and the Indian jornalists, who don't seem to be quite as sheepish yet as the ones we know so well from our own MSM ...

re: #173 MandyManners

Of course they weren't. They were soldiers.

Mandy, some are going to consider it offensive if people continue calling them soldiers. They aren't. They are terrorists, highly trained, but still terrorists.

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

Messages huh? Message to whom?

The message from Mumbai is directed at the entire non-muslim world! it is simple.

Even here at LGF, to call for violence against the enemy is grounds for banning! What have they to do before we call for, demand, and conduct a war in our own defense against ISLAM? A war that is ruthless, cruel, and unrestricted!...and absolutely necessary for our survival!

What will it take?

We are so permeated, so poisoned, so emasculated, by Political Correctness that I am not certain that even here, this post will not be deleted. Sad comment on ourselves, and our times.

It's a shame I can only give you one upding.

re: #157 Desert Dog

There has to be a breaking point with India though. They will get poked in the eye one too many times one day. I hope it does not come to that, it would be very bad.

I think the same thing about the UK. One of these days the average Brit will have had it with all the PC nonsense and there will be a backlash. It will be ugly--and decisive.

re: #173 MandyManners

Of course they weren't. They were soldiers.

Not necessarily true. They were operating in close quarters, room to room, and the Indian special forces had to operate under the assumption that there were hostages alive in those rooms and couldn't just shoot to kill everyone. It's not as easy as it seems, even against someone with paramilitary training. In confined spaces, it doesn't take much to get yourself killed if you're a security force attempting to clear and breach areas held by terrorists.

The terrorists booby-trapped bodies with grenades, and the terrorists weren't exactly going to give up easily.

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

Even here at LGF, to call for violence against the enemy is grounds for banning!

Name one.

re: #184 gclaghorn

It's a shame I can only give you one upding.

3rded.

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

Good point. He expected to die and meet his 72 virgins. Instead he's getting a personal demonstration of the effectiveness of waterboarding (or at least I hope he is).

I would bet that the methods are beyond waterboarding. This guy will talk.

re: #27 opnion

But Obama issued a strongly worded statement.
Terrorists everywhere shoul be advised that if they do not behave, more strongly worded statements will follow

And then the UN will issue a statement once they get everyone to agree that they should put together a group to look into the idea of writing a pre-statement of solidarity which will might form an ad hoc committee.

This massacre, combined with the call for the U.S. to convert to Islam, is the jihad knock at America's door. We're next is what it says to us. By some miracle, two jihad operatives were thwarted from poisoning massive numbers of people, instead killing themselves with their own poison. So it will be at the conclusion of this long war, this terror war. We will defeat them, utterly and for all time. They will lose everything, not least their claims to honor and godliness, they will be shamed. Not soon, I fear, but truth will out and we will come to ourselves.

re: #165 lawhawk

From what I can tell, reports suggest 10 of the terrorists entered the city by boat. An unknown number entered by different means. The only hard number is apparently those that came ashore.

Even so, the total number wouldn't need to be much above a couple of dozen. Apparently, the bomb explosions were the cause of most of the casualties, with the terrorists then using direct fire to kill the first responders and casualties who had been taken to the nearest hospital. I don't know how far apart the various targets were, but with pre-preparation and reliable communications (they used Blackberries, apparently), the total number of gunmen wouldn't need to be much above a couple of squads, certainly not more than a platoon-sized group total.

It's all in the planning. And I have to give these b*****ds credit- the plan wasn't stupid.

cheers

eon

re: #178 footballrules

I know nothing about these things except what "experts" on TV and newspaper say. They seem to feel that Deccan Mujahadeen is nothing. Rather, they are probabaly one, or both, of two groups that have agitated and fought in Kashmir and had been trained and supported by ISI. However, the "experts" do not believe the ISI had any idea of this attck; however, if true, the ISI created the militants who did this. I hope not, because India and Pakistan could be heading for a terrible destination (which is exactly what these monsters wnat to do).

No, that's right on the money. ISI did create these groups, and support their training. There's no question of that. Official support of the Kashmir training camps stopped in Oct. 2006, I'm one of the few people who noted that back then on my blog.

re: #190 debutaunt

And then the UN will issue a statement once they get everyone to agree that they should put together a group to look into the idea of writing a pre-statement of solidarity which will might form an ad hoc committee.

Maybe they UN can attach something to the daily condemnation of Israel.

As much as I dislike Obama, I have to give him credit for something. He is intelligent. He isn't Barbara Boxer or Waxman. I would like to think he has some idea of what we are up against. Now that he has won the election, he seems to be forgetting many of his leftist promises. He may actually know that President Bush, VP, FISA, etc has protected us for the past 7 years.

By the way, guest columnist in Duluth paper seems to think God put The Messiah in office.

[Link: www.duluthnewstribune.com...]

Could it be that God is directing history here? Could it be that just as Evan Almighty was chosen by God to intervene in Washington to save people from a catastrophe and to dramatically change the political culture of greed and corruption, God has chosen President-elect Barack Obama to intervene and bless this country?

re: #194 opinionated

Maybe they UN can attach something to the daily condemnation of Israel.

Or the "Don't Criticize Islam Proclamation" they've been working on.

re: #146 opnion

Just asking, does anybody think that before the Indian interrogators try to extract information from the captured terrorists, that they are consulting attorney's to determine which techniques are permissible?

Attorneys?
Are ye having a laugh, or what?

(Course not - shame, innit ...!)

re: #173 MandyManners

Of course they weren't. They were soldiers.

Perhaps the best description is the complete one: they were highly trained in murder, proud of their power over unsuspecting, unarmed people. They had a plan and knew how to use the weapons, but that doesn't really dignify them with the title of warriors. Murderers.

re: #173 MandyManners

Of course they weren't. They were soldiers.

Beg to politely differ.

Soldiers do not target innocents. Terrorists do, motivate and trained but terrorists all the same.

Soldiers try to protect and shield the innocent.

Sitting in a home suddenly silent with my daughter's departure, I ponder.

If an attack such as Mumbai (still strange to say after a lifetime of Bombay), with British born mussulmen attacking from the sea were to occur here, do we still have the stones to respond? Would we still go after the perps no matter where?

Until proven different, I'm going to assume that the Obamanation would rise up in response. So many have so much invested in Obama's success that he couldn't not respond. Remember the lament of our first black President that he wished he'd still been in charge so as to build a legacy?

That's what I'm going to tell myself, anyway. Until evidence proves different. When you look at the long line of 'first Blacks' in America, they have generally been exceptional. This is the first time that America has chosen a 'first Black' cut from such unexceptional cloth. A common Chicago ward-heeling pol.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Always good advice.

re: #198 Joan

Perhaps the best description is the complete one: they were highly trained in murder, proud of their power over unsuspecting, unarmed people. They had a plan and knew how to use the weapons, but that doesn't really dignify them with the title of warriors. Murderers.

Just so. Upding.

re: #160 FightingBack

Besides the two hotels, the hospital (!) and the Chabad center, what were the other sites? Is it true that they started with a police station to get uniforms?
How many total terrorists were there to create this level of havoc?

I've haven't seen any of this on the FNN news. However, I did see an old interview with a smirking Joran Van der Sloot. Twice.

train station and Leopold cafe

re: #184 gclaghorn

It's a shame I can only give you one upding.

It seems evident, at least to me that the only way that this addition of Global Jihad will go dormant is by inflicting ruthless and disproportionate retaliation.
Create doubt in the minds of the Jihadists and demonstrate to Muslims that success through violence is a bad idea. Maybe a better idea, let's just get along, much more healthy.

India anti-terrorism leader is laid to rest.

Hemant Karkare’s body was on Saturday brought to his home in central Mumbai ahead of the funeral. But the cremation was delayed so that his two daughters who live abroad could return in time for the last journey.

Army officers, local government officials and citizen representative paid tribute to Karkare, who was called a hero by local media.

As terrorists Wednesday night targeted 10 Mumbai landmarks, Karkare donned his helmet and bullet-proof jacket and set out to take them on. The protection, however, proved inadequate and Karkare fell to the terrorists’ bullets

re: #193 Thanos

Thanos,
If it does turn out to be one of those two established groups trained and supported by ISI (but the ISI had no idea of Mumbai attack), do you feel it could be war between India and Pakistan? Or perhaps just a skirmish like they had a few years ago in Kashmir? I have also heard and read that it is NOT in the interest of either country right now to have another conflict. The public cry for revenge would be overpowering if it turned out to be creation of Pakistan's intelligence agnecy.

re: #202 wahabicorridor

train station and Leopold cafe

"I could always use a dog wishbone, eh, Leopold?"

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

If you really feel the need to call for violence and fantasize about torture, mass deportations, etc., there's absolutely nothing stopping you from starting your own blog -- where YOU can deal with the real-world consequences of that kind of loose-lipped nonsense, not ME.

When you post comments at LGF, under an anonymous username, the one who gets to take the heat for them is me.

I'm going to delete things that I think are over the line. If you can't live with it, you're welcome to go elsewhere.

192 eon: "It's all in the planning. And I have to give these b*****ds credit- the plan wasn't stupid. "

I know so many are saying similar things, and yes--there was a plan, and the murderers knew how to use weapons. So did the Columbine High School killers, they had a plan too, and they carried it out. Same arrogance, same sense of grievance, same schadenfreud. Murderers. Not warriors. It was just shooting fish in a barrel.

re: #181 Desert Dog

So, do you think they learned their skills in the mountains with the Pashtuns or down in the valley with the ISI? Or both?

Here's the chronology:

Up until Oct 2006 Pakistan had several camps still training these guys. They closed the camps, defunded the groups, and that's when assassination attempts on Musharraf started. The groups migrated West, some to Swat to work with TNSM, some towards S. Waziristan to work with TTP (notably Jaish e Muhammed in Dara Adam Khel.) The camps migrated to the Afghan frontiers, and barriers to peace with India steadily fell, even under Musharraf. Sept. 2007 the major umbrella groups (LeT, HuM, HuJI, JeM) all signed up with AQ, and the real civil war in Pakistan started.

re: #204 Quilly Mammoth

India anti-terrorism leader is laid to rest.

Farewell to a brave and good man. May angels sing to his rest.

re: #204 Quilly Mammoth

India anti-terrorism leader is laid to rest.

Hero, taken out by a ruthless cult of murderers.

Hey y'all - I'm glad that the attacks are over - at least for now and hope and pray that the Indian Government asks for and gets assistance from the US and/or Israel in counterterrorism operations, because I have a BAD feeling that Mumbai is not going to be the end of it for India.

re: #202 wahabicorridor

Thank you. I take it that you wouldn't be interested in my review of the Van Der Sloot interview? Me neither.

re: #160 FightingBack

Besides the two hotels, the hospital (!) and the Chabad center, what were the other sites? Is it true that they started with a police station to get uniforms?
How many total terrorists were there to create this level of havoc?

I've haven't seen any of this on the FNN news. However, I did see an old interview with a smirking Joran Van der Sloot. Twice.

There was an attempt to bomb the airport - the bomb went off, accoring to Indian sources (heard it on the Beeb) because the taxi got stuck in traffic.

There was the massacre at the main railway station.

There was the attack on the Leopold Restaurant - the first attack.

And there was a cinema which apparently also was attacked.

re: #148 Desert Dog
yep

re: #183 Thanos

Mandy, some are going to consider it offensive if people continue calling them soldiers. They aren't. They are terrorists, highly trained, but still terrorists.

Why offensive? They were soldiers of Allah.

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Farewell to a brave and good man. May angels sing him to his rest.

PIMF

First and foremost, our hearts, prayers and sympathies are with the dead and their families. Maybe this horrible event will bring solidarity to civilized countries as we rally around families.

Second, what was the religion of the gutless killers of innocent men, women and children? Oh yeah. . .

Third, I am hoping that the lone surviving terrorist is misinforming when he says he was trained by Pakistani intelligence service. If true, such an admission could instigate retaliation (justifiable, IMO) by India, a nuclear armed country against another nuclear country. I hope I am correct when I say I believe the information is misleading.

By the way, it would make my day to hear a Muslim UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMN the attacks. C'mon you savages, show us your cult's mercy.

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

I don't think that's 100% accurate.

re: #219 Quilly Mammoth

I don't think that's 100% accurate.

Only 99.9%?

re: #209 Thanos

Pakistan is going to be a bigger problem than Iran.....they already have nukes, they have a severe dislike of their neighbors and they have a large group of hate filled vengeance bent citizens. Not good.

What do you think our newly minted President Obama do about this problem?

re: #204 Quilly Mammoth

India anti-terrorism leader is laid to rest.

Lord bless and keep him, his family and friends. May his name be honored forever.

re: #214 yma o hyd

There was an attempt to bomb the airport - the bomb went off, accoring to Indian sources (heard it on the Beeb) because the taxi got stuck in traffic.

There was the massacre at the main railway station.

There was the attack on the Leopold Restaurant - the first attack.

And there was a cinema which apparently also was attacked.

Cowards.

re: #216 MandyManners

Why offensive? They were soldiers of Allah.

Smack! Sorry Mandy but you needed that. They may have thought themselves that, but their beliefs were in error. They were murderers and terrorists, the scum of the earth. Say nothing that might seem to dignify them, for they deserve no dignity.

re: #130 garycooper

Probably so, but I'm going to pester my local newspaper with letters asking them about this campaign promise. Obama promised us Osama, on a platter! And the local rag endorsed him gushingly, even referring to this specific promise.

Eh, it's something to do on a cold winter's night.

Ooh! I like that idea, I may have to try that as well. THX!

So, we have the two giant hotels, the hospital, the Chabad, the train station, and the Cafe. 6 sites and 10 terrorists?

re: #221 Desert Dog

Pakistan is going to be a bigger problem than Iran.....they already have nukes, they have a severe dislike of their neighbors and they have a large group of hate filled vengeance bent citizens. Not good.

What do you think our newly minted President Obama do about this problem?

Indulge in moral equivalence? Eat his waffle?

re: #205 footballrules

Thanos,
If it does turn out to be one of those two established groups trained and supported by ISI (but the ISI had no idea of Mumbai attack), do you feel it could be war between India and Pakistan? Or perhaps just a skirmish like they had a few years ago in Kashmir? I have also heard and read that it is NOT in the interest of either country right now to have another conflict. The public cry for revenge would be overpowering if it turned out to be creation of Pakistan's intelligence agnecy.

I don't think there will be a war. For one thing India can see that Pakistan is at war right now with the same groups in their frontier. PPP is in charge now, if they don't get the Taliban and AQ, then the Taliban and AQ will get them. On the other hand, Kashmiri independence aligned with Pakistan has long been a popular cause there. It's very complex, it mirrors the intifada etc. in many ways.

Here is a concept I've been working on in relation to 'anger'.

Anger: A sin when acted upon.
Righteous Anger: A sin when not acted upon.

I could be completely wrong. But it seems there are times that lack of action/drive/will is going to be a major thorn in our side.

/Just throwing something out there for you religious types...

If this thing leads to all out war betrween India & Pakistan, then the attack will have been a success.

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi
Check your dings.

re: #218 Tenacious
These guys were well trained, equipped, and financed, and that means Pakistan but not the Pakistani government rather the military or rogue elements of the military.

re: #187 Sharmuta

Name one.

I've tried to find the "rules" but have been unable to do so. I believe that they clearly state that any advocacy of violence is grounds for banning, and for the most part, rightly so, but not when called for against our common enemy, the enemy of all non-muslim mankind...or peoplekind, if you prefer.

Am I wrong about that?

re: #212 realwest

Hey y'all - I'm glad that the attacks are over - at least for now and hope and pray that the Indian Government asks for and gets assistance from the US and/or Israel in counterterrorism operations, because I have a BAD feeling that Mumbai is not going to be the end of it for India.

I worry about a similar, dispersed coordinated attack like that here. The economy would really tank if they hit a half a dozen malls this time of year.

Hope India with our and Israel's help hunts down every single person who had a hand in this.

re: #221 Desert Dog

I have actually read that the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hate the militants. If they didn't, it seems as though the government would have been taken over by the radicals. As is the case in many situations, it is the minority that makes it seem that they are all crazy. That is not to say the majority like the US or India, they don't. It is to say that most hate al-Qaeda and other terrorists. There is a difference.

re: #216 MandyManners

Why offensive? They were soldiers of Allah.

True soldiers do not purposefully shoot babies, I know what you are saying, but I will not give them the sanction they try to assume by calling themselves "soldiers"

#9 Rancher

The new Pakistani government was making peace overtures such as a "No first nuke" policy. The military was very much against this. This was meant to discredit if not bring down the government of Pakistan and maybe even start a war so the military can step in and save the day.

The Pakistani military has fought India before, and has lost every time. Whatever maneuvering or wishful thinking thay may be engaged in, I just don't see them actually saving the day.

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Smack! Sorry Mandy but you needed that. They may have thought themselves that, but their beliefs were in error. They were murderers and terrorists, the scum of the earth. Say nothing that might seem to dignify them, for they deserve no dignity.

Soldiers of Allah.

OT: A now, a liberal thanksgiving, brought to you by noted radical far left wing site Geek Culture.

re: #233 M. Bensson-Levi

So you wave a broad brush but can't site examples?

Well, I seem to have pissed off a bunch of folks unintentionally.

re: #187 Sharmuta

Name one.

I said something suspect. I did not get banned. However,
I do understand where Bensson-Levi is coming from.

re: #241 MandyManners

Well, I seem to have pissed off a bunch of folks unintentionally.

This is a tough room.

re: #241 MandyManners

Well, I seem to have pissed off a bunch of folks unintentionally.

I knew what you mant, but I think some people thought you were (subconsciously) equating these animals with other uniformed soldiers.

re: #220 VegasRick

Read what Charles has since written. It defines a clear difference between calling out the danger of Radical Islam and our need to defend ourselves from it and the off the wall comments calling for torture, genocide and so forth which have been deleted. I've never seen a thoughtful comment on protecting ourselves against the RIFs deleted.

re: #187 Sharmuta

Name one.

The examples have been deleted.re: #240 Sharmuta

So you wave a broad brush but can't site examples?

SavageNation, Nodrog...those are a few off the top of my head who have been banned IIRC for talking about violent options.

re: #228 Thanos

But wasn't the ISI the Talibans major supporters with respect to money, intelligence and overall support before 9/11? It seems to me that ISI and the Pakistani government have totally different and dangerous agendas. I am suspicious of ISI. I don't think they have ever been our friends. In fact, it's the one reason I somewhat liked Musharaf. He drew the line after 9/11. I'm not sure ISI did.

The one captured terrorist was from Pakistan... but that does not mean Pakistan was involved.

re: #233 M. Bensson-Levi

There you go with those all encompassing words like "all".
People are individuals except to haters.

re: #160 FightingBack

Besides the two hotels, the hospital (!) and the Chabad center, what were the other sites? Is it true that they started with a police station to get uniforms?
How many total terrorists were there to create this level of havoc?

I've haven't seen any of this on the FNN news. However, I did see an old interview with a smirking Joran Van der Sloot. Twice.

My guess is at least 40. The attack sites appear grouped, the hospital and train station to the north, hotels etc. to the south.

I believe most of India's top anti-terror leadership were killed at the hospital. My belief is that was premeditated, the terrorists knew where the commanders would be, and eliminated them. I just can't believe that was a "fog of war" incident, or accident, or even a lucky shot.

That bought the terrorists a lot of time to fortress up. I think India's remaining leadership re-grouped quickly and then begin to dictate the battlefield.

re: #245 Quilly Mammoth

How long after the attacks and we are already fighting among ourselves about our responses (verbal responses, yet) ?

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

The World has decided that terrorism is a chronic condition. We have to live with it and when it comes, say a silent thanks that it occurred somewhere else to other people. And hope the next event also happens far away.

The supposed healers- our leaders- of this condition will proscribe some condemnations of Israel, an insistence that the problem is all about the Israeli "occupation" and a never ending "peace process". Also a hot compress of assurances that "Islam is a Religion of Peace" is advised.

re: #176 M. Bensson-Levi

Even here at LGF, to call for violence against the enemy is grounds for banning! What have they to do before we call for, demand, and conduct a war in our own defense against ISLAM? A war that is ruthless, cruel, and unrestricted!...and absolutely necessary for our survival!

MBL - I changed my ding after re-reading. Charles is right. It is too easy to have so many "sliding scale" definitions of enemy.

Just because myself and so many folks agree with your comment as it targets who we consider a common enemy, I have to agree with the banning philosophy.

re: #237 Wm T Sherman

The Pakistani military has fought India before, and has lost every time. Whatever maneuvering or wishful thinking thay may be engaged in, I just don't see them actually saving the day.

No, its just a power grab. Also I think there were allot of other elements involved. I think Al Qaeda had a hand in this as well as Indian Muslim separatists. As many have been saying, they all have common cause.

re: #241 MandyManners

Well, I seem to have pissed off a bunch of folks unintentionally.

I know what you meant. In my opinion, your word choice was poor. Only that and nothing more.

re: #233 M. Bensson-Levi

I've tried to find the "rules" but have been unable to do so. I believe that they clearly state that any advocacy of violence is grounds for banning, and for the most part, rightly so, but not when called for against our common enemy, the enemy of all non-muslim mankind...or peoplekind, if you prefer.

Am I wrong about that?

I think the problem Charles has with it is when we (I know I have) mistakenly paint all muslims with the same broad brush of "all muslims are terrorists". I think folks like us do that because we are so angry about so few muslims coming out to denounce these dispicable acts that it sometimes, albeit mistakenly, seems that way.

'ChargerGirl' is the third sock puppet of a previously banned user, and this account is now blocked too.

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