Mumbai Terrorist’s Confession

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 10:55 am PST • Views: 554

The confession of Azam Amir Kasav, the only terrorist captured alive in Mumbai, has apparently been leaked to the press. The Malaysian Insider has a detailed report on the story told by Azam, and it’s chilling: Terrorists posed as Malaysian students.

Note that Azam claims the terror team was trained by the Pakistani group Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant Islamists closely linked to Pakistan’s ISI intelligence service. Their goal, he says, was to create a “September 11 in India.”

A native of Faridkot in Pakistan- occupied Kashmir, Azam revealed the names of his fellow terrorists, all Pakistani citizens: Abu Ali, Fahad, Omar, Shoaib, Umer, Abu Akasha, Ismail, Abdul Rahman (Bara) and Abdul Rahman (Chhota).

But the 10 men were apparently not the only ones directly involved: Another group, he claimed, had checked themselves into hotels four days before, waiting with weapons and ammunition they had stockpiled in the rooms.

The 10 men in Azam’s group were chosen well: All were trained in marine warfare and had undergone a special course conducted by the Lashkar-e-Taiba. Preparations were also detailed, and started early.

Azam and eight others in the team made a reconnaissance trip to Mumbai several months before the attacks, pretending to be Malaysian students. They rented an apartment at Colaba market, near one of their targets, the Nariman House.

The chief planner of the attacks also visited Mumbai a month before to take photographs and film strategic locations, including the hotel layouts.

Returning to Pakistan, the chief plotter trained the group, telling them to ‘kill till the last breath’.

Surprisingly, the men did not expect themselves to be suicide terrorists. Azam said they had originally planned to sail back on Thursday - the recruiters had even charted out a return route, stored on a GPS device.

On the evening of Nov 21, Azam’s group set off from an isolated creek in Karachi in a boat. The next day, a large Pakistani vessel with four Pakistanis and crew picked them up, whereupon the group was issued arms and ammunition.

Each man in the assault team was handed six to seven magazines of 50 bullets each, eight hand grenades, one AK-47 assault rifle, an automatic loading revolver, credit cards and a supply of dried fruit. They were, as some media put it, in for the long haul.

A day later, the team came across an Indian-owned trawler, Kuber, which they boarded. They killed four of the fishermen onboard, dumped their bodies into the sea, and forced its skipper Amarjit Singh to sail for India.

The next day, they beheaded the skipper, and one of the gunmen, a trained sailor, took the wheel and headed for the shores of Gujarat, India.

Near Gujarat, the terrorists raised a white flag as two officers of the coast guard approached. While the officers questioned them, one of the terrorists grappled with one of them, slit his throat and threw his body into the boat. The group then ordered the other officer to help them get to Mumbai.

On Nov 26, the team reached the Mumbai coast.

Four nautical miles out, they were met by three inflatable speedboats. They killed the other coast guard officer, transferred into the speedboats and proceeded to Colaba jetty as dusk settled. The Kuber was found later with the body of the 30-year-old captain onboard.

At Badhwar Park in Cuffe Parade - just three blocks away from Nariman House - the 10 men got off, stripped off the orange windbreakers they had been wearing and made sure to take out their large, heavy backpacks.

It was there that they were spotted by fisherman Prasan Dhanur, who was preparing his boat, and harbour official Kashinath Patil, 72, who was on duty nearby.

“Where are you going?” Patil asked them. “What’s in your bags?”

The men replied: “We don’t want any attention. Don’t bother us.”

Thinking little of it, Dhanur and Patil, who said they did not see the guns hidden in the backpacks, did not call the police, and watched the 10 young men walk away.

Then the carnage started.

On hitting the ground, the 10 men broke up. Four men headed for the Taj Mahal Hotel, two for The Oberoi Trident, two for Nariman House and two - Azam and Ismail - for the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus by taxi.

At the railway station, Azam and his colleague opened fire, targeting Caucasian tourists while trying to spare Muslims.

The two gunmen also destroyed the CCTV control room, throwing grenades into it.

It was here that Azam was photographed, dressed in light-grey combat trousers and sneakers, a rucksack on his back, toting his AK-47. According to one security expert, the way he carried the assault rifle revealed months of training.

The two men left the main hall of the railway station littered with bodies and pools of blood, then moved on to Metro Cinema and then to the Girgaum Chowpatty area in a stolen Skoda. It was there that their plans started to unravel.

At the Girgaum Chowpatty area, Azam and Ismail were intercepted by anti-terror troops from the Gamdevi police station, and they ended up trading shots. Azam managed to shoot dead assistant police inspector Tukaram Umbale, while one of them also gunned down anti-terror squad chief Hemant Karkare.

Ismail, however, was eventually killed, while Azam himself was shot in the hand. Pretending to be dead, he fell, and the two men were taken to Nair Hospital. But police soon spotted him breathing and quickly evacuated the hospital’s casualty ward, and brought in the anti-terror squad to interrogate him.

At first, Azam remained tight-lipped, but the sight of Ismail’s mutilated body broke his resolve. Pleading with medical staff to save his life, he said: “I do not want to die. Please put me on saline.”

The bullet in his hand was removed, and after his condition had stabilised, Azam was moved to another location on Thursday for more interrogation. Reports, however, say that the grilling at the hospital had been so intense that at one point, he pleaded with the police and medical staff to kill him. He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

(Hat tip: Thanos.)

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425 comments

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1 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:56:28am

At least the little bastard is talking.

2 Long Nics are Looonnng  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:56:54am

re: #1 fat bastard vegetarian

Can we waterboard him anyway?

3 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:57:00am

I do not want people like this living near my family.

4 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:57:10am

I'd love to know what techniques they're using.

5 coldwarrior  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:57:44am

the last paragraph is good.

the indians need to turn this scumbag and get everything they can out of him by any means possible

6 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:58:54am

Does India have the death penalty?

7 Luigi  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:59:16am

I think this attack was designed to take the pressure off AQ on the Afghanistan/Pak border where US and Nato forces have been escalating their cross-border assault on AQ. I think AQ wants to ratchet up the pressure on India to create an atmosphere where the international community will want to deescalate the tension between the nuclear neighbors -- which would be partly accomplished by stepping down these US and Nato attacks on Pakistan's western frontier.

8 Sharmuta  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:59:53am

Disgusting coward.

9 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:01:18am

re: #6 goddessoftheclassroom

Does India have the death penalty?

Life in an Indian prison is probably worse, considering what the other inmates would do to him endlessly for decades.

10 DonB  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:01:44am

Complete and utter cowards, one and all. I truly hope he gets what he deserves - a slow miserable death.

11 RoyalCanadian  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:01:55am

Just a few bad apples go a long way when the rest of the apples protect them.

12 DistantThunder  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:02:26am

Snot-nosed punk with an AK.

13 Perfectsense  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:02:27am

Did they read him his rights before he confessed?
If not, lefties will paint him as the real victim in this murderous rampage.

14 RubyTuesday  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:03:01am

I am updinging like mad every poster who values the lives of anyone over the life of a terrorist. I'm a Christian, and if someone wants to go in and try to convert this butcher, fine. But unless he repents, he's fair game for whatever.

15 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:03:01am

islam delenda est

16 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:03:15am

The political ramifications of Pakistani involvement are WAY too dangerous to comprehend. Consider if the KGB was complicit in JFK's assassination (and not covered up). This is going to turn hot real soon.

///Maybe it is time to stock up on Basmati rice.

MI

17 jcbunga  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:04:30am

Their mothers must be so proud.

18 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:04:44am
Reports, however, say that the grilling at the hospital had been so intense that at one point, he pleaded with the police and medical staff to kill him. He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”


Boo-hoo. What a pussy.

19 guest77  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:04:50am

What some people won't do for 72 virgins.

20 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:05:33am

This clears up some things if true. First, the exit from Pakistan via a creek near Karachi tells me they didn't leave under the noses or aegis of security officials in Pakistan.
The mystery of why two ships is answered, I would like to see this corroborated by India since he says they killed two coast guard members when they were stopped.
On the other hand, I think he's still hiding parts. There were other facilitators and logisticians, someone bought and paid for those AK's.

21 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:05:49am

re: #6 goddessoftheclassroom

Yup, I'm pretty sure they do. Hanging or firing squad from what I recall.

22 Sol Roth  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:06:05am
And as Indian commandos ended the bloody 59-hour siege at the Taj yesterday by killing the last three Islamic gunmen, baby-faced Kasab was dispassionately detailing the background to the mayhem.

He described how its mastermind briefed the group to ‘target whites, preferably Americans and British’.

Some of the militants, including Kasab, posed as students during a visit to Mumbai a month ago, filming the ‘strike locations’ and familiarising themselves with the city’s roads.


[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

23 Griffon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:06:16am

I'm so thankful I was born in the USA. There can't be a better place on earth to live.

24 Lynn B.  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:06:35am

re: #3 Ojoe

I do not want people like this living near my family universe.

25 jaunte  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:07:26am

re: #20 Thanos

Did you see this organized crime connection?
"Sources say Azam has also revealed that people from gangster Dawood Ibrahim's gang helped the terrorists from Karachi in organising the attacks."
[Link: indiatoday.digitaltoday.in...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

26 SummerSong  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:07:30am

He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

We don't care what you want, Akam.

27 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:07:40am

re: #23 Griffon

I'm so thankful I was born in the USA. There can't be a better place on earth to live.

Why I'm not worried about the current property value slump at all.

28 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:07:48am

Spare the little turd's life. Hang him from his ankles instead of from his neck.

29 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:08:05am

re: #23 Griffon

I'm so thankful I was born in the USA. There can't be a better place on earth to live.

I wasn't born here, but am American. This is a great country and it pains me to no end just how many Americans do not appreciate the many blessings we have here that so many around the world do not.

30 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:08:40am

re: #20 Thanos

Meanwhile, the Times of India is reporting that a Russian expert is saying that the training and tactics appears consistent with US intel op training conducted in Pakistan prior to Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan. Seems that the Russians want to try and push that meme to undermine closer US/India ties, and make an already dangerous situation even more unstable.

31 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:08:42am

re: #25 jaunte

Did you see this organized crime connection?
"Sources say Azam has also revealed that people from gangster Dawood Ibrahim's gang helped the terrorists from Karachi in organising the attacks."
[Link: indiatoday.digitaltoday.in...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I did, but keep in mind that Dawood gets drug up for every terror incident in India, he's kinda like their Bin Laden...

32 mfarmer1  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:08:42am

It should be really interesting to see what Pakistan says and does now that this guy is "cooperating" with Indian authorities. You know Pakistani officials wish this guy had died, that's for sure.

It doesn't matter though. Even with all the justified anger now in India, the major press outlets are pleading with people not to blame Islam, blah blah blah.

Until we all get over that, this war will be never ending.

33 Macker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:09:14am

I'd be force-feeding this bastard SPAM®!

34 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:09:56am

re: #30 lawhawk

Meanwhile, the Times of India is reporting that a Russian expert is saying that the training and tactics appears consistent with US intel op training conducted in Pakistan prior to Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan. Seems that the Russians want to try and push that meme to undermine closer US/India ties, and make an already dangerous situation even more unstable.

Yes and some of the Maoist groups are trying to say it was Mossad false flag op. That's why I'm waiting on more real forensics from the scene, and other corroborations.

35 jaunte  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:10:43am

re: #31 Thanos

Ah, I see. I thought there might be a possibility of a distracting attack to divert western military resources from interfering with the poppy economy.

36 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:10:44am

re: #34 Thanos

On that end, both the US and Israelis are sending forensic teams to assist.

37 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:10:44am

re: #26 SummerSong

He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

We don't care what you want, Akam.

BRAVO!

38 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:11:13am
the grilling at the hospital had been so intense

Not intense enough ... uh ... well, okay ... save that for later. For the time being, he's a valuable intelligence asset.

39 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:11:16am
trained by the Pakistani group Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant Islamists

Lousy weekend. First my Lotto tickets don't win and now my hefty bet that it was a group of fired Lehman Brothers brokers is lost too.

40 lawhawk  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:11:43am

re: #35 jaunte

Think bigger than that - it's designed to sabotage relations between India and Pakistan, and threatens to undermine the GWoT with the Pakistanis saying that they might move 100,000 from the frontier provinces where they're fighting Taliban/AQ/Islamists and put them on the border with India.

41 Dr_Applebreath  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:11:53am

Do you think there are people in India asking themselves "What did we do to make them so mad at us?" like our liberal friends here in America did after 9/11?

I note that the NYT's primary concern over this whole affair is that it will trouble The One's efforts to solve the India-Pakistan contentiousness, so he can bring peace and happiness to Afghanistan.

There is no way this was done with ten guys - they only caught ten guys, the rest got away.

42 Bubbaman  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:11:59am

I still want to know whether this was the incident that "Joe" was speaking about. Oh wait, Osama's not in office yet. Knowing that the annointed one is appointing a bunch of Clinton cronies should put everyone on edge - they were the idiots in charge leading up to 9/11.

43 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:12:29am

God bless all those Indians who risked their own lives to help these terrorists' targets escape.

44 VegasRick  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:12:33am

re: #28 Alouette

Spare the little turd's life. Hang him from his ankles instead of from his neck.

Yep, make him a poster boy. Make him eat only pork products, sleep with pigs and dogs and listen to "Open Season" 24/7.

45 realwest  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:12:43am

re: #20 Thanos While they "they didn't leave under the noses or aegis of security officials in Pakistan." I have very little doubt that they had a LOT OF HELP from inside Pakistan - and probably a lot of that help was from the ISI.
That was a LOT of planning and some extraordinarilly good training for those murderer's to get to Mumbai and it frankly doesn't seem to me that a group of that size could carry that out without the ISI's knowledge and at least tacit consent.

46 jcbunga  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:12:54am

re: #23 Griffon

I'm so thankful I was born in the USA. There can't be a better place on earth to live.

Baby killers and savages.

Thank God for all of our police, fire and military. All volunteers and the best there has ever been. In times like these I find the Marine Corps Silent Drill Platoon very reassuring:

47 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:13:14am

re: #40 lawhawk

Think bigger than that - it's designed to sabotage relations between India and Pakistan, and threatens to undermine the GWoT with the Pakistanis


My view as well. This does not appear to be a mere killing spree, and the Prez of Paki's response indicates something is odd.

48 vxbush  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:14:20am

re: #47 Max Darkside

My view as well. This does not appear to be a mere killing spree, and the Prez of Paki's response indicates something is odd.

What response did he give? I haven't seen the specifics. Link, if you can.

49 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:14:31am
Pretending to be dead, he fell, and the two men were taken to Nair Hospital. But police soon spotted him breathing

So he either held his breath for a immpossible World record breaking time or the Indians are desperately in need of some fundamental training.

50 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:15:06am

Poor little Azam Amir Kasav, be begged them to save his life from a frikkin wound to the hand. The cowardly little shit doesn't have the guts to hold fast to his cause.

/can we find a hill of ants who are only moderately hungry?

51 killerjoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:15:52am

re: #42 Bubbaman
Don't worry obama is on the way. He will put gas in everyone's gastank and pay all the bills for the Indians, and the world will be just like JFK and FDR.

52 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:15:59am

re: #6 goddessoftheclassroom

Yes, though rarely used the Indian may hang murders.

53 Dianna  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:16:23am

I'm reminding myself that I'm civilized.

If I believe in individual rights, as opposed to group rights (which I do), then I believe in individual responsibility, and there's no collective responsibility.

So I'm going to wish this little coward a particularly hot corner of hell, and leave it at that.

54 realwest  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:16:29am

re: #25 jaunte
From your second link: "Although Pakistan denies any knowledge of his existence, Indian intelligence agencies, such as Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), believe that Dawood currently resides in Karachi, and is provided protection, by the Pakistani intelligence agency, Inter Services Intelligence. [4]"
Bingo.
I'm beginning to get the feeling that the ISI is a government unto it's own-self and probably should be designated a terrorist organization.

55 SurferDoc  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:16:42am

Nobody has to do anything extraordinary to this little turd. What is left of his life will be a richly-deserved nightmare.

56 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:18:02am

re: #35 jaunte

This does have high potential to draw troops away from the Swat, Bajaur, and now opening Mohmand offensives. I am heartened by what Zardari said at a Jirga in Swat yesterday, that the war against the terrorists would continue without abatement until the end. With PPP/ANP/MQM in power in Pakistan, it's them or us and they realize it now.

57 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:18:11am

re: #17 jcbunga

Their mothers must be so proud.

The scary thing is, some of their mothers may well be!

58 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:18:39am
59 RubyTuesday  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:19:00am

This is what W's kept out of the US since 9/11. Hope we can say the same thing for O Hussein.

60 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:19:14am

The owner of the Taj said there was prior warning...
Taj Mahal hotel chairman: We had warning

The Taj Mahal hotel in Mumbai, India, temporarily increased security after being warned of a possible terrorist attack, the chairman of the company that owns the hotel said Saturday.

But Tata Group Chairman Ratan Tata said those measures, which were eased shortly before this week's terror attacks, could not have prevented gunmen from entering the hotel.

"If I look at what we had ... it could not have stopped what took place," Tata said in an interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria that will air Sunday.

"It's ironic that we did have such a warning, and we did have some measures," Tata said, without elaborating on the warning or when security measures were enacted. "People couldn't park their cars in the portico, where you had to go through a metal detector."

However, Tata said the attackers did not enter through the entrance that has a metal detector. Instead, they came in a back entrance, he said.

61 realwest  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:19:41am

re: #31 Thanos
Yes but it would appear from Juante's links that
Dawood is India's bin Laden.

62 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:19:48am

re: #53 Dianna

I'm reminding myself that I'm civilized.

If I believe in individual rights, as opposed to group rights (which I do), then I believe in individual responsibility, and there's no collective responsibility.

So I'm going to wish this little coward a particularly hot corner of hell, and leave it at that.

Your restrain is very, very, admirable. Would you lend me some? Please?

63 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:20:19am

re: #33 Macker

I'd be force-feeding this bastard SPAM®!

Better yet, cut him a couple dozen times and throw him into a pen with 20 fully grown hogs that haven't been feed in a week...

64 Higgs Boson  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:20:26am

I hope that they did not 'water-board' Azam. That punishment would be worse than his crime!

65 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:20:46am

re: #48 vxbush

What response did he give? I haven't seen the specifics. Link, if you can.

Pakistan president warns India not to over-react

I would say that real meaning / feeling may have been lost in translation but if you get a sense of what he's saying, it's a bit odd. "Don't attack me! I'll handle it over here!", but yet the terrorists seemed well trained executing a thought-out plan. Should be interesting what is found out.

66 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:20:54am

re: #63 doriangrey

Better yet, cut him a couple dozen times and throw him into a pen with 20 fully grown hogs that haven't been feed in a week...

I like it.

67 MrC_5150  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:22:07am
Reports, however, say that the grilling at the hospital had been so intense that at one point, he pleaded with the police and medical staff to kill him. He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

Broom stick. Sideways.

68 Rexatosis  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:22:14am

Re #7 Luigi

I agree this terrorist attack will lessen the pressure on AQ in the tribal areas. It will do so by raising Indian-Pakistani tensions forcing the Pakistani military to focus its resources on the Pakistani-Indian frontier. The forcing of a classic military "turning movement." The attack also will probably benefit the Hindu nationalists in the next Indian elections which may well put an end to the thawing of Indian-Pakistani relations that has occurred over the last few years. The main beneficiaries of such a political turn will be AQ and the Pakistani groups fighting for Kashmir as Pakistan will face a more hostile India and will probably, based on past actions, seek to use these groups as proxy fighters or atleast reduce their opposition to the current Pakistani government by tolerating them. In terms of the economic impact we will see how the markets in India react and the impact of that reaction on the world markets tomorrow, but India's tourism industry will take a major hit for the next six months atleast. Unfortunately the images from this attack will benefit AQ and other Islamic radical groups in terms of propoganda and recruiting by making them look powerful by wrecking such damage to high profile targets like the Taj Hotel. The Mumbai attacks were well thought out with multiple objectives and should remind all of us in the West this will be a long, multi-front war with Islamic extremism.

69 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:22:34am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Poor little Azam Amir Kasav, be begged them to save his life from a frikkin wound to the hand. The cowardly little shit doesn't have the guts to hold fast to his cause.

/can we find a hill of ants who are only moderately hungry?

They are always brave and courageous around helpless women and children and unarmed people.

70 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:22:52am

While everyone is so glad this guy is caught and talking, I'll only be glad when what he is saying culminates in some concrete successful action that results in such future events being much more unlikely.

I'm not holding my breath.

I predict the media and governments will continue to pretend that this is the work of isolated "militants".

71 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:23:27am

re: #61 realwest

Yes he is, but he's also RAW's favorite bad boy, they try to tie everything to him, including initially the Malegoan bombings. RAW's a good intel agency but when it comes to Pakistan you have to understand that there will be spin and omissions. I don't take what ISI or JI say about India at face value, same as I don't accept everything RAW says without some secondary sourcing. They are not A1, but not C3 either in other words when it comes to grading.

72 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:23:57am

re: #66 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I like it.

It is a fitting form of execution for a jihadist terrorists, because old Mo mo will refuse to have anything to do with them if they die that way.

73 Syrah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:23:59am

Looking at how they killed people after they were forced to cooperate with getting the terrorist into India, the lesson is clear. There is no percentage at all in helping them. Better to meet your end fighting them than to help them in the slightest.

The Fishing boat Skipper and the Coast Guardsmen made the wrong choice.

Every hijacking, no matter how large or small, is a flight 93 scenario.

No option. Fight.

74 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:24:20am

re: #60 Killgore Trout

However, Tata said the attackers did not enter through the entrance that has a metal detector. Instead, they came in a back entrance, he said.


doh! Damn terrorists didn't use the front door as planned! Sounds like gun-control. Regulate the innocent while evil does what it pleases.

/idiot

75 Davida  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:24:22am

re: #46 jcbunga

Thanks.

I needed that.

76 vxbush  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:25:04am

re: #65 Max Darkside

Pakistan president warns India not to over-react

I would say that real meaning / feeling may have been lost in translation but if you get a sense of what he's saying, it's a bit odd. "Don't attack me! I'll handle it over here!", but yet the terrorists seemed well trained executing a thought-out plan. Should be interesting what is found out.

But he's fairly new to the office, yes? I think he's been in there less than six months (correction welcome). So he may still be wet behind the ears and trying to be diplomatic while he figures out what the heck is going on.

77 Macker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:25:25am

re: #72 doriangrey

Oh, and Satan will have EVERYTHING to do with them! He'll be calling forth 72 virgin DEMONS with anvil-shaped genitalia to deal with those terrorists!

78 roadrodent  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:25:25am

Re #60

Once again, a defensive posture is of limited value against terrorists, they always have the upper hand of choosing the place and time to attack and are not handicapped by "silly" morality. The best defense is a strong offense and to take the battle to their homeland.

79 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:25:39am

re: #65 Max Darkside

Pakistan president warns India not to over-react

I would say that real meaning / feeling may have been lost in translation but if you get a sense of what he's saying, it's a bit odd. "Don't attack me! I'll handle it over here!", but yet the terrorists seemed well trained executing a thought-out plan. Should be interesting what is found out.

There is an Islamist/hyper-nationalist faction within the ISI. Musharaf suppressed it, at least to a degree, but only an idiot would think it's been completely purged. THAT faction was probably involved, but that doesn't mean the ISI was, as an organization. I can't see the ISI, as an organization, being dumb enough to go for something this ... well, you know. It would be tantamount to signing its death warrant.

80 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:26:36am

re: #63 doriangrey

Better yet, cut him a couple dozen times and throw him into a pen with 20 fully grown hogs that haven't been feed in a week...

That is cruelty to the hogs. I'm not a member of PETA or anything, but innocent hogs should not be tortured by feeding them this garbage.

81 jcbunga  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:26:45am

What the freak is happening to, as The One says, "Pah-kee-stahn"?

They apparently have some shred of a civilized society there, yet the "restive" tribal regions are spewing out 7th century death cultists and now "baby-faced" yuppie looking bastards are yachting their way out the other side of the country to slaughter innocents.

I think it's safe to say that whatever they are doing, it's not working.

82 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:26:55am

re: #72 doriangrey

It is a fitting form of execution for a jihadist terrorists, because old Mo mo will refuse to have anything to do with them if they die that way.

Precisely.

83 Macker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:27:18am

re: #79 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If they had managed to murder 5,000, Pakistan could very well have lost 5 MILLION in response.

84 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:27:36am

What I want to know is what was their point in trying to kill 5,000 people? Was this an 'experiment' on the part of their handlers to see what could be done with more infiltrators?

85 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:27:44am

re: #79 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There is an Islamist/hyper-nationalist faction within the ISI. Musharaf suppressed it, at least to a degree, but only an idiot would think it's been completely purged. THAT faction was probably involved, but that doesn't mean the ISI was, as an organization. I can't see the ISI, as an organization, being dumb enough to go for something this ... well, you know. It would be tantamount to signing its death warrant.

All it/they need is plausible deniability... standard operating procedure.

86 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:27:46am

One other note on this: when they captured some SIMI terrorists at least three differing flavors of "leaked confessions" came out. Some of the papers we are getting stories from are almost directly controlled by political parties, so there are both lies of commission and ommission couple with bazaar rumors going round.

87 SixDegrees  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:27:46am
Reports, however, say that the grilling at the hospital had been so intense that at one point, he pleaded with the police and medical staff to kill him.

I'm surprised we haven't seen Amnesty International or the International Red Cross file human rights complaints over this yet.

Maybe we should consider outsourcing our interrogations to Mumbai. It sounds like they're goal oriented.

88 jaunte  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:28:16am

re: #71 Thanos

Here are two politicians urging repositioning of the Pakistani armed forces:
"Nawaz and Qazi asked the government to review its anti-terror policy, especially the engagement of the army in the Tribal Areas."

(Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz chief Nawaz Sharif
& Jamaat-e-Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed)

[Link: dailytimes.com.pk...]

89 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:28:41am

re: #84 rightymouse

What I want to know is what was their point in trying to kill 5,000 people? Was this an 'experiment' on the part of their handlers to see what could be done with more infiltrators?

I don't think so. That was their "impact" goal.

90 Salamantis  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:28:54am

I would've interrogated this rancid glot of pond scum by breaking every bone in his body, then giving him an injection of something that would throw him into convulsions.

91 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:29:12am

re: #89 Max Darkside

I don't think so. That was their "impact" goal.

With 10 people?

92 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:31:20am

re: #85 Max Darkside

All it/they need is plausible deniability... standard operating procedure.

Plausible deniability is going to be hard enough for the ISI to come by as it is.

I don't know if this has been posted in the spin-offs.
Foreign SIM cards, fake IDs from Bangladesh
Read thru the last paragraph.

93 Max Darkside  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:31:21am

re: #91 rightymouse

With 10 people?

I find it very hard to believe they really did this with 10 peeps, but I'm not going to try to explain their thinking. I've been over there... Mumbai and North towards Pakistan.

94 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:32:42am

re: #88 jaunte

Here are two politicians urging repositioning of the Pakistani armed forces:
"Nawaz and Qazi asked the government to review its anti-terror policy, especially the engagement of the army in the Tribal Areas."

(Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz chief Nawaz Sharif
& Jamaat-e-Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed)

[Link: dailytimes.com.pk...]

Oh, hell yes, ... they would!
IIRC, Sharif has strong ties to Islamist causes.

95 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:33:20am

re: #93 Max Darkside

I find it very hard to believe they really did this with 10 peeps, but I'm not going to try to explain their thinking. I've been over there... Mumbai and North towards Pakistan.

I agree that there were more than the 10 that we know of.
Methinks something greater is afoot, though. That's just my .02 cents.

96 Smilla  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:33:47am

re: #23 Griffon

Maybe, but it is not the only place to live and it doesn't solve the problem. These attacks can happen anywhere now. How about some compassion for those people who live in Mumbai?

97 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:33:51am

re: #86 Thanos

One other note on this: when they captured some SIMI terrorists at least three differing flavors of "leaked confessions" came out. Some of the papers we are getting stories from are almost directly controlled by political parties, so there are both lies of commission and ommission couple with bazaar rumors going round.

Excellent point.
Do we have a 48 DAY rule?
heh

98 rhythman  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:33:57am

talk talk talk
sure, they're interrogating him
but I doubt any real action will be taken against these terrorists or any others.
pres-elect BHO wants to talk with the murderers
Good Luck to us all

99 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:34:40am

re: #95 rightymouse

I agree that there were more than the 10 that we know of.
Methinks something greater is afoot, though. That's just my .02 cents.


The question of staff at the hotels remains. . .seems hard to believe that there were not more there. . .but then again, many staff were heros. . .hard to say for sure

100 shanec99  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:34:45am

re: #64 Higgs Boson

I hope that they did not 'water-board' Azam. That punishment would be worse than his crime!


Huh?/

101 zombie  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:35:27am

re: #53 Dianna

I'm reminding myself that I'm civilized.

If I believe in individual rights, as opposed to group rights (which I do), then I believe in individual responsibility, and there's no collective responsibility.

So I'm going to wish this little coward a particularly hot corner of hell, and leave it at that.

Well, I admire your restraint, and in other circumstances would agree, in this case I think there is some collective responsibility.

Say, for example, ten guys were caught rampaging through a town in Poland, killing eveyrone they saw with military precision. And say that you captured one of them. He revealed that he was not acting on his own initiative, but instead was part of a larger organization called "The German Army," and they ultimately took orders from a man named "Adolph Hitler," and the the year was 1939. Moreover, he tells you that he is a member of a political cult called "The Nazi Party," and that there are millions of other men exactly like him all over Europe doing the exact same thing.

Would you then simply say, "Well, this guy is individually responsible for his acts, and let's 'leave it at that' "? Or would you think perhaps that you had a larger problem on your hands, and that similar "individual" acts of murder and carnage would continue to occur until you did something to physically stop the German Army as a whole, and discredit Naziism as a valid ideology?

Treating each incident as a separate individual crime is to always be playing catch-up and ultimately is a way to lose the war.

Individual rights and responsibilities only count in a society that has a moral basis and a universally agreed on rule of law. If people with a different worldview barge in to your idealistic utopia, the rules of the game change.

102 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:35:29am

re: #98 rhythman

talk talk talk
sure, they're interrogating him
but I doubt any real action will be taken against these terrorists or any others.
pres-elect BHO wants to talk with the murderers
Good Luck to us all

It will lose him the votes of those who saw him as a change meister. . .not ///

103 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:35:35am

re: #65 Max Darkside

Pakistan president warns India not to over-react

I would say that real meaning / feeling may have been lost in translation but if you get a sense of what he's saying, it's a bit odd. "Don't attack me! I'll handle it over here!", but yet the terrorists seemed well trained executing a thought-out plan. Should be interesting what is found out.

I was going to post the same link. It is very disturbing that Pakistan would be telling India not to over react. What they should be saying is Please don't over react but even in that the Pakistan Government can not handle the situation they are in and it is quit visible with the attacks coming from the NW into Afghanistan and into India.

104 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:35:48am

re: #91 rightymouse

I think the planers just told them that they were going to kill 5,000 people and escape. The attack achieved its goal: it shut down India's financial capital for a few days and hurt their tourist industry.

105 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:35:59am

re: #93 Max Darkside

I find it very hard to believe they really did this with 10 peeps, but I'm not going to try to explain their thinking. I've been over there... Mumbai and North towards Pakistan.

There were a lot more than just 10.
Not all of them were caught or killed.
I heard NSG estimating 40.

106 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:36:36am

re: #53 Dianna

I'm reminding myself that I'm civilized.

If I believe in individual rights, as opposed to group rights (which I do), then I believe in individual responsibility, and there's no collective responsibility.

So I'm going to wish this little coward a particularly hot corner of hell, and leave it at that.

How can people not believe in some kind of collective responsibility?

Do you have perfect knowledge of everyone in the family and village and country from which he came, so that you are certain none of them had anything material to do with this?

Would you dare to fire on uniformed enemy troops, when few of them have ever fired at our troops, and maybe some are only there under duress?

This doctrine of individual responsibility *only*, is a licence for perpetual attack against us.

107 jhn1  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:37:05am

sounds like he has started making shit up as he goes along.
a standard AK magazine does not hold 50 rounds, nor would the now few claimed terrorists have left a whole lot of unfired (as is leaked) rounds as much as they shot up.
Standard US patrol load was 300 rounds, so most western or western styled military probably also thinks of that as within the range of "normal".

108 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:37:21am

re: #101 zombie

All Muslims who remain silent are complicit as I see it.

I don't hear much.

109 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:37:43am

re: #101 zombie

Individual rights and responsibilities only count in a society that has a moral basis and a universally agreed on rule of law. If people with a different worldview barge in to your idealistic utopia, the rules of the game change.

The operative paragraph.
*rimshot*

110 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:38:21am

re: #76 vxbush

But he's fairly new to the office, yes? I think he's been in there less than six months (correction welcome). So he may still be wet behind the ears and trying to be diplomatic while he figures out what the heck is going on.

Same for BHO. Hang on, cause it's going to be bumpy ride.

MI

111 rawmuse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:38:23am

I for one am not going to waste any of my precious time trying to sort out which are the "bad" Muslims.

112 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:38:39am

re: #79 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There is an Islamist/hyper-nationalist faction within the ISI. Musharaf suppressed it, at least to a degree, but only an idiot would think it's been completely purged. THAT faction was probably involved, but that doesn't mean the ISI was, as an organization. I can't see the ISI, as an organization, being dumb enough to go for something this ... well, you know. It would be tantamount to signing its death warrant.

Hmmm, Osama Bin Laden is hiding where again? He manages to stay hidden there how exactly? A well planned well executed hyper violent attack is planned by individuals from where? This attack oddly resembles what attack that took place on 9/11/01? And who planned that other famous attack which also involved small well trained teams which infiltrated, split up and committed simultaneous attacks?

Sorry, if this had anything to do with Pakistanis ISI it was only peripherally in that the ISI is providing Al Queda with logistical support.

113 Macker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:38:42am

re: #101 zombie

Nothin' but Net!

114 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:38:55am

re: #88 jaunte

Here are two politicians urging repositioning of the Pakistani armed forces:
"Nawaz and Qazi asked the government to review its anti-terror policy, especially the engagement of the army in the Tribal Areas."

(Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz chief Nawaz Sharif
& Jamaat-e-Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed)

[Link: dailytimes.com.pk...]

Yes, JI, MMA and the others are going to be pulling for getting the troops out of the frontiers incessantly. If the saber rattling gets too loud, then AQ will succeed in that goal.

115 Jaded  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:39:05am

#2
"Can we waterboard him anyway?

Yes please, pretty please? Well The Messiah is going to invade Pakistan so I guess their security services being involved gives him the reason to go right? Or was he just talking badass and really is going to be a "paper tiger"? He is going to go get Osama right? I am guessing he will do all of the above via osmosis...all God like!

116 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:40:00am

re: #90 Salamantis

I would've interrogated this rancid glot of pond scum by breaking every bone in his body, then giving him an injection of something that would throw him into convulsions.

If my imagination is any indication, he may have had just that. . .

Israel, the US, and tose nations who are "Western" again respect the ROEs of war, and the rules that pertain to POWs. . .

Waterboarding. . .sen as so cruel and unusual is nothing compared to what I imagine they did the the Chabad House victims. . .

WTFU Moonbats- it is apples and oranges torture is as torture does. . .we are not seeing people with the same scruples. . .in this case, they, the terrorists were treated according ot their actions. . .right or wrong, do we REALLY have the right to tell India how to deal with its POWs?

//

117 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:40:01am

re: #112 doriangrey

I'm not so sure.

118 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:40:40am

re: #65 Max Darkside

Pakistan president warns India not to over-react

The Arab Israeli template.

Jihadist Islam can do what it will, using whatever nation's and security services at its disposal, killing and torturing Infidel innocents on a whim, but the Democracies are warned that legitimate response is beyond the rules.

119 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:40:53am

re: #112 doriangrey

Hmmm, Osama Bin Laden is hiding where again? He manages to stay hidden there how exactly? A well planned well executed hyper violent attack is planned by individuals from where? This attack oddly resembles what attack that took place on 9/11/01? And who planned that other famous attack which also involved small well trained teams which infiltrated, split up and committed simultaneous attacks?

Sorry, if this had anything to do with Pakistanis ISI it was only peripherally in that the ISI is providing Al Queda with logistical support.

I agree and BO may be correct "spit" and something may have to be done with Pakistan!

120 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:40:55am

re: #103 BBev

I was going to post the same link. It is very disturbing that Pakistan would be telling India not to over react. What they should be saying is Please don't over react but even in that the Pakistan Government can not handle the situation they are in and it is quit visible with the attacks coming from the NW into Afghanistan and into India.

Restraint's a bitch, huh? Have the calls begun for Israel to do the same, or have we just gone ahead and said we would let India handle it. . .

121 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:40:57am

re: #99 DisturbedEma

The question of staff at the hotels remains. . .seems hard to believe that there were not more there. . .but then again, many staff were heros. . .hard to say for sure

The concern that I have is that this was a probe.

122 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:41:40am

re: #65 Max Darkside

Pakistan president warns India not to over-react

I would say that real meaning / feeling may have been lost in translation but if you get a sense of what he's saying, it's a bit odd. "Don't attack me! I'll handle it over here!", but yet the terrorists seemed well trained executing a thought-out plan. Should be interesting what is found out.

"Don't nuke me, bro!"

123 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:42:43am

re: #105 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There were a lot more than just 10.
Not all of them were caught or killed.
I heard NSG estimating 40.

At this remove it's hard to tell, if there were more than 10 actually firing weapons.

Give the investigators a few more days, at least, to get some facts.

I keep thinking the press, government, and PR are purposely understating casualties, or at least were until it was all over, but for all the fuss maybe it was just ten guys, and a few facilitators on the spot - and a few more facilitators back home. That is the real danger here, that these kind of independent, hobbiest operations are a constant trickle with no real links to anything we'd call responsible higher parties.

124 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:42:45am

re: #119 BBev

I agree and BO may be correct "spit" and something may have to be done with Pakistan!

Yeah. . . .ummm, that is the rub, in that to get involved with this situation will be seen as different from the Israeli "problem" when in fact, they are quite similar. . .irony alert

125 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:43:11am

re: #120 DisturbedEma

Restraint's a bitch, huh? Have the calls begun for Israel to do the same, or have we just gone ahead and said we would let India handle it. . .

Ahh. .. . That's above my pay grade.

126 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:44:10am

re: #124 DisturbedEma

Yeah. . . .ummm, that is the rub, in that to get involved with this situation will be seen as different from the Israeli "problem" when in fact, they are quite similar. . .irony alert

How true

127 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:44:15am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I think the planers just told them that they were going to kill 5,000 people and escape. The attack achieved its goal: it shut down India's financial capital for a few days and hurt their tourist industry.

For what end, though? Was that it? Nothing more after this?

128 blame canada  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:44:23am

Can anyone explain why hundreds of thousands of european university students held rallies defending poor hezbollah against israel, but nobody rallies against these islamonazis? Stupid moonbats

129 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:44:45am

re: #121 rightymouse

The concern that I have is that this was a probe.

Yes, like 9-11 was. . .find the soft spots. . .and attack without mercy. . .I'd say that the terrorists found out a lot about india they did not count on. . .like their willingness to bring it over and over to them, instead of talking with them. . .in for the long haul. . .not when the people you are attacking are saying "fuck this we are going in"

130 Randall Gross  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:45:54am

re: #92 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Plausible deniability is going to be hard enough for the ISI to come by as it is.

I don't know if this has been posted in the spin-offs.
Foreign SIM cards, fake IDs from Bangladesh
Read thru the last paragraph.

If this pans out then it's most likely also HuJI - B as opposed to all LeT.

131 pat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:46:17am

Muslims are racists as well as bigots. Who knew?/

132 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:46:41am

re: #125 BBev

Ahh. .. . That's above my pay grade.

Someone make another batch of Kool Aid. . .the weakest link is showing. . .his true. . . weakness. . . must make the one look better. . . .

Oh YEAH. . .

133 Viking6  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:46:50am

re: #90 Salamantis

I would've interrogated this rancid glot of pond scum by breaking every bone in his body, then giving him an injection of something that would throw him into convulsions.


While I find this an exceptable manner of interrogation my preference would be the time test Popel Pocket Fish Scaler.

/

134 Nylecoj  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:47:05am

re: #64 Higgs Boson

I hope that they did not 'water-board' Azam. That punishment would be worse than his crime!

Are you serious?! Nothing is worse than his crime, he (they) didn't care who they killed. Children were killed! Innocent people going about their daily lives were killed! And by all reports those at Nariman House were tortured first.
Geez

135 jaunte  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:47:14am

re: #114 Thanos

I hope the Pakistan military will stay focused on killing the Taliban and 'foreign fighters.'

44 Taliban killed, Mohmand braces for new offensive
[Link: dailytimes.com.pk...]

136 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:47:16am

re: #128 blame canada

Can anyone explain why hundreds of thousands of european university students held rallies defending poor hezbollah against israel, but nobody rallies against these islamonazis? Stupid moonbats

I'm sorry but my mind does not think moonbat.

137 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:47:45am
138 Gang of One  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:47:53am

re: #128 blame canada

Can anyone explain why hundreds of thousands of european university students held rallies defending poor hezbollah against israel, but nobody rallies against these islamonazis? Stupid moonbats

I think it has something to do with the fact that if you accuse an Islamist of being violent, they will protest by ... killing you. Whereas the Israelis will allow you to be a ranting idiot.

139 Joan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:48:07am

re: #73 Syrah

Looking at how they killed people after they were forced to cooperate with getting the terrorist into India, the lesson is clear. There is no percentage at all in helping them. Better to meet your end fighting them than to help them in the slightest.

The Fishing boat Skipper and the Coast Guardsmen made the wrong choice.

Every hijacking, no matter how large or small, is a flight 93 scenario.

No option. Fight.

Do you think we may arrive at a second adaptation to the barbarian assault against us: hostages accept and expect that it is better to die in a rescue assault by our own, than to provide the enemy with leverage. It is a terrible option, and in cases especially like the siege at Beslan, it may be an impossible option. But, it may be the only way to deprive these predators of the tactic of using human shields.

Speaking only for myself, I would hope for the courage to accept such a choice if it deprives the enemy of incentive to take others in the future, if it deprives the terror tactic of some of its power, if it enables our side to destroy utterly the murderers even as they formulate their manifestos and demands.

Will we ever arrive at the necessity to declare every citizen a soldier? Our enemy has already decreed that "there are no innocents" among us, we won't be spared by the enemy. Can we empower our side with such an ethic, or would it be too inhumane?

140 pat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:48:15am
The satellite phone found on the MV Kuber also has shown that calls were made to Jalalabad. These calls were traced to Zakir Ur Rehman, a chief of training of the LeT.

Intelligence sources have also revealed that in the second week of July, intelligence officials knew about 25 terrorists training in the Pakistan village of Durbari Mitho, and that an ISI agent was also involved in the training.

141 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:48:43am

re: #119 BBev

I agree and BO may be correct "spit" and something may have to be done with Pakistan!

I suspect something IS being done about Pakistan. Pakistan may have nuclear weapons, but doesn't have anywhere near the military forces to deal with a full scale conventional military strike by India. Pakistan genuinely has it's back up against the wall now. On one side it has US military forces rather consistently breaching Pakistani sovereignty hitting high value Islamic targets, now it's looking down the barrel of a seriously pissed off Indian gun. Pakistan has no choice but to either clean house and do so very very publicly, or suffer the loss of it's nation sovereignty.

142 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:49:17am

re: #135 jaunte

I hope the Pakistan military will stay focused on killing the Taliban and 'foreign fighters.'

44 Taliban killed, Mohmand braces for new offensive
[Link: dailytimes.com.pk...]

I'm sorry but at this point I do not think they can do it alone. They need help.

143 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:49:25am

re: #123 itellu3times

re: more than 10 actually firing weapons

You're right, though I'm inclined to bet the rent payment that there was a substantial fifth column helping out.

These birds had cell phones. The ones inside the Taj were able to stay ahead of the commandos for a good while. What if fifth columnists were relaying intelligence to them?

(Yeah, I know, fifth columnists who were hiding on the grassy knoll. I hate conspiracy theories too. Still, this thing was damn well planned. I'm just sayin', "what if?")

144 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:50:09am

re: #129 DisturbedEma

Yes, like 9-11 was. . .find the soft spots. . .and attack without mercy. . .I'd say that the terrorists found out a lot about india they did not count on. . .like their willingness to bring it over and over to them, instead of talking with them. . .in for the long haul. . .not when the people you are attacking are saying "fuck this we are going in"

I'd say you are absolutely correct that they found out more about India and their citizens that they did not count on.

145 pat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:50:38am

This thing is panning out just as I surmised. A Pakistani hit on the Indian economy by bureaucrats and ISI.

146 Salamantis  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:51:10am

re: #139 Joan

Do you think we may arrive at a second adaptation to the barbarian assault against us: hostages accept and expect that it is better to die in a rescue assault by our own, than to provide the enemy with leverage. It is a terrible option, and in cases especially like the siege at Beslan, it may be an impossible option. But, it may be the only way to deprive these predators of the tactic of using human shields.

Speaking only for myself, I would hope for the courage to accept such a choice if it deprives the enemy of incentive to take others in the future, if it deprives the terror tactic of some of its power, if it enables our side to destroy utterly the murderers even as they formulate their manifestos and demands.

Will we ever arrive at the necessity to declare every citizen a soldier? Our enemy has already decreed that "there are no innocents" among us, we won't be spared by the enemy. Can we empower our side with such an ethic, or would it be too inhumane?

This brings back memories of the Iraqi kidnapee who yanked off his mask and shouted, "Now I'll show you how an Italian dies!"

We didn't see many beheading videos after that.

147 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:51:38am

re: #130 Thanos

If this pans out then it's most likely also HuJI - B as opposed to all LeT.

"IF THIS PANS OUT" -- yes.
The article's in the Times, but these are early days.

148 jaunte  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:51:56am

re: #142 BBev

You're right. It's hard to tell if that story I linked is true or just the Pakistan military telling the rest of the world what we would like to hear.

149 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:52:58am

re: #92 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Plausible deniability is going to be hard enough for the ISI to come by as it is.

I don't know if this has been posted in the spin-offs.
Foreign SIM cards, fake IDs from Bangladesh
Read thru the last paragraph.


Uhoh...

150 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:53:03am

re: #136 BBev

I'm sorry but my mind does not think moonbat.

Stewardess, I speak Moonbat

The difference between the 2 is that Jews are to blame for their own problems by staying in an legal Jewish state on land they are historically entitled to have. . .wait

Um Palestinains have no national history, they were actually Jordanians. . .wait

Jews and Indians have been attacked by the same rabid and fanatical murderers. . .

Dammit! LGF has rendered me unable to speak Moonbat-

Thanks LGF:)

151 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:53:08am

re: #139 Joan

Do you think we may arrive at a second adaptation to the barbarian assault against us: hostages accept and expect that it is better to die in a rescue assault by our own, than to provide the enemy with leverage. It is a terrible option, and in cases especially like the siege at Beslan, it may be an impossible option. But, it may be the only way to deprive these predators of the tactic of using human shields.

I know that after 9-11 there is no other option other then to fight back at what ever the cost is. If for some reason I was help hostage I would already know that I would not be getting out alive so I might as well cause as much damage to them as I can with the time I had left here in Earth.

152 SurferDoc  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:53:32am

"Will we ever arrive at the necessity to declare every citizen a soldier? Our enemy has already decreed that "there are no innocents" among us, we won't be spared by the enemy. Can we empower our side with such an ethic, or would it be too inhumane?"

We are already soldiers whether we choose it or not. Some of us know it, some of us do not know it yet.

153 superjan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:53:43am

I wonder what damage ten heavily armed man in Dutch rushhour could do. 8.30 in the morning, standing on viaducts with Ak47's and grenade launchers. targeting 10 major highway traffic jams. We are so helpless.

*shivers*

154 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:53:59am

re: #144 rightymouse

I'd say you are absolutely correct that they found out more about India and their citizens that they did not count on.

They found out about us too. . .

155 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:55:08am

re: #154 DisturbedEma

They found out about us too. . .


Yes.

They did.

156 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:55:33am

India and Israel: The parallels
By BARRY RUBIN

If the terrorists came from bases or training camps in Pakistan, India would want international action to be taken. Pakistan must be pressured to close such camps, stop helping terrorists and provide information possessed by Pakistani intelligence agencies.

But will Western countries make a real effort? Are they going to impose sanctions on Pakistan or even denounce it? Will they make public the results of their own investigations about responsibility for the terror campaign against India?

NOT LIKELY. After all, such acts would cost them money and involve potential risks, perhaps even of the terrorists targeting them. Moreover, they need Pakistan, especially to cooperate on keeping down other Islamist terrorist threats, not spread around nuclear weapons technology too much and cooperate on maintaining some stability in Afghanistan.

This parallels Israel's situation with Syria, Lebanon and Iran.

"There is a Hindi saying: One and one makes 11. It is time for India and Israel to become allies. It is a jihad we are both facing."

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

157 wiffersnapper  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:55:43am

Obama must be shitting his pants right about now.

158 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:56:05am

re: #154 DisturbedEma

They found out about us too. . .

I'm guessing "they" dont get the history channel in "their" caves...

159 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:56:16am

re: #149 rightymouse

Uhoh...

Re ISI involvement, see my comments in #79 pre-Boomer Marine brat

160 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:56:32am

Fast OT: my uncle just called to let me know the Space Shuttle's landing at 1:25 Pacific time, at Edwards AFB. Apparently weather's really bad at Kennedy. Video here.

161 Truck Monkey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:57:14am

re: #101 zombie

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

162 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:59:07am

re: #127 rightymouse

For what end, though? Was that it? Nothing more after this?

Resume enhancement.

163 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:59:12am

re: #157 wiffersnapper

Obama must be shitting his pants right about now.

Baby-face doesn't know enough to realize that he should be shitting in his pants right about now. His whole focus is on being a community organizer. He thinks he can go out organize things.

164 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:59:20am

re: #156 Opinionated

India and Israel: The parallels
By BARRY RUBIN


[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Waiting for the Israel brings it on herself. . . .wait for it. . .

165 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 11:59:57am

re: #163 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Baby-face doesn't know enough to realize that he should be shitting in his pants right about now. His whole focus is on being a community organizer. He thinks he can go out organize things.

Kool aid anyone?

166 Syrah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:00:19pm

re: #139 Joan

Do you think we may arrive at a second adaptation to the barbarian assault against us: hostages accept and expect that it is better to die in a rescue assault by our own, than to provide the enemy with leverage. It is a terrible option, and in cases especially like the siege at Beslan, it may be an impossible option. But, it may be the only way to deprive these predators of the tactic of using human shields.

Speaking only for myself, I would hope for the courage to accept such a choice if it deprives the enemy of incentive to take others in the future, if it deprives the terror tactic of some of its power, if it enables our side to destroy utterly the murderers even as they formulate their manifestos and demands.

Will we ever arrive at the necessity to declare every citizen a soldier? Our enemy has already decreed that "there are no innocents" among us, we won't be spared by the enemy. Can we empower our side with such an ethic, or would it be too inhumane?


They force us to play by different rules.

167 Syrah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:01:02pm

re: #157 wiffersnapper

Obama must be shitting his pants right about now.

More likely he is just trying to eat his waffles in peace.

168 Jaded  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:02:10pm

Can I just be honest and say how great you people are and how much I apprciate your interrogation method's and what great HOPE and CHANGE would come through some of those method's :-)

We may not always get the information we want BUT we will get some satisfaction from these sick son of a bitches...and I suspect actual RESPECT from these sick bastards. You see when you have Democrats in this country working against our own men and women you don't tend to get any RESPECT or FEAR from your enemy!

169 L_Y_N_X29  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:02:21pm

If there is a silver lining in the above story it is that the terrorist piglet began to squeal after seeing the mutilated body of his comrade. I guess his survival instincts took over his love of 72 virgin orgy. Perhaps however barbaric it might seem, the terrorists need to be exposed to the mutilated body of dead cohorts.

Yes today we are safe in the US and perhaps in UK but how long before the muslim population grows and this ends up being an everyday event. How about those saudis who were caught taking pictures of a jewish private school. Any bet they have a Besalan type school massacre on their "to do" list?

170 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:02:37pm

re: #165 DisturbedEma

Kool aid anyone?

In spite of my statement in #163, I also believe it's possible that he'll be better than Jimmy Carter.

/is that the epitome of damning with faint praise?

171 CommonCents  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:03:37pm
He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

Once he has told everything his wish should be obliged.

172 Nylecoj  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:03:46pm

re: #167 Syrah

More likely he is just trying to eat his waffles in peace.

Considering how he has been apparently backing off, at least to an extent, many of his more left wing comments that got him nominated I think it is quite amusing that one of his favorite foods is waffles.

173 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:04:03pm

re: #170 pre-Boomer Marine brat

In spite of my statement in #163, I also believe it's possible that he'll be better than Jimmy Carter.

/is that the epitome of damning with faint praise?

I do not remember him as a president. . .only an apologist I am only 38. . .

174 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:04:39pm

re: #171 CommonCents

Once he has told everything his wish should be obliged.

We should honor his requests. . .in keeping with his rights. . .

175 pink freud  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:05:07pm

re: #173 DisturbedEma

I do not remember him as a president. . .only an apologist I am only 38. . .

He sucked.

I like reading your comments, Ema. Glad to have you on board.

176 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:05:18pm

re: #173 DisturbedEma

I do not remember him as a president. . .only an apologist I am only 38. . .

Today I feel about 108 though. . .

177 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:05:45pm

re: #175 pink freud

He sucked.

I like reading your comments, Ema. Glad to have you on board.

:) I aim to please. . .and irritate some ;)

178 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:05:48pm

re: #159 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Re ISI involvement, see my comments in #79 pre-Boomer Marine brat


Thanks! Went back to look at your post. Man, I need to do more research on these perps.

179 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:05:51pm

Mumbai: Doctors Shocked At Hostages Torture

Asked specifically if he was talking of torture marks, he said: "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood," one doctor said.

The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.

180 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:06:37pm

re: #162 itellu3times

Resume enhancement.

With whom?

181 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:07:11pm

re: #164 DisturbedEma

Waiting for the Israel brings it on herself. . . .wait for it. . .

The conventional diplomatic and media wisdom is that Jihad attacks on Israel have a legitimacy that other attacks worldwide do not have.

India will likely experience that same isolation.

It is this excuse that allowed a seed of "Palestinian" terrorism that was -excused, hell applauded- many decades ago to expend to our World today: where no one is safe anywhere.

182 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:07:40pm

re: #143 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Still, this thing was damn well planned.

But really, was it, as an operation? There was apparently no PR side to it at all. No big booms. Lacked a lot of the cute tricks these jihadis and suicide types are known for. Apparently they mistook what was required to demolish the hotel.

It was a lot like 9/11 in that they walked in through very mushy opposition - prior to 9/11, passengers and security were always ready to give in to hijackers, remember those simpler days?

That, and the jihadis are typically careful not to get the scale of operation too large - in that, 9/11 was extraordinary. They do not want the entire population enraged and scared enough to take group action. I'm afraid Mumbai will turn out to be well below that line, too.

Indeed, if Al Gore and not George Bush had been president in 2001, I'll bet our reaction would have been muted, law-enforcement style, too. Whatever gripes I have about Dubya, and they are many, I will always grant him a big one on getting that right.

183 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:08:08pm
184 ornery elephant  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:08:42pm

Isn't it odd that the Indian Coast Guard didn't investigate lost contact with those two officers that were killed? Didn't that leave a Coast Guard boat just floating there? I mean, how much time elapsed from killing the Coast Guard officers to hitting landfall? Seems odd.

185 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:09:19pm

re: #172 Nylecoj

Considering how he has been apparently backing off, at least to an extent, many of his more left wing comments that got him nominated I think it is quite amusing that one of his favorite foods is waffles.

Should be interesting to see him caught with his rhetoric down. . .will he side with the radical friends of the family brigade. . .or will he continue to pander to the Jewish voters should the time come for him to speak to this.

Amazing kool aid enduced crap to see MSM writing at the same time that Bush should step down and allow dear leader to ascend. . .AND that the continuing fiscal and global woes are Bush's fault. . .AND that dear leader has no obligation to comment about India's dead. . .since he is not in office yet. . .

the mind truly boggles

186 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:09:46pm

re: #173 DisturbedEma

I do not remember him as a president. . .only an apologist I am only 38. . .

heh heh heh ... I don't remember him as a "President" either, and I'm 65.

Trivia -- my ex had a sister living in Georgia back in the 70's. The sister and brother-in-law told us, the people of Georgia were positively THRILLED when Carter left for the White House. (It meant he was out of Georgia.)

187 rawmuse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:09:52pm

re: #184 ornery elephant

Isn't it odd that the Indian Coast Guard didn't investigate lost contact with those two officers that were killed? Didn't that leave a Coast Guard boat just floating there? I mean, how much time elapsed from killing the Coast Guard officers to hitting landfall? Seems odd.

That was a lucky break for the Pakis.

188 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:09:56pm

re: #181 Opinionated

The conventional diplomatic and media wisdom is that Jihad attacks on Israel have a legitimacy that other attacks worldwide do not have.

India will likely experience that same isolation.

It is this excuse that allowed a seed of "Palestinian" terrorism that was -excused, hell applauded- many decades ago to expend to our World today: where no one is safe anywhere.

And the entire world has probably never seen a fruit from any seed that was as poisonous.

189 GrammatonCleric  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:10:24pm

Taxi was meant to blow up Mumbai airport

The flyover outside the domestic airport in Mumbai and a taxi driver’s unfamiliarity with the new slip route to the terminal perhaps went a long way in averting a major disaster that could have taken the toll into hundreds on Wednesday night itself.

Shortly before the terrorists moved into their targets in South Mumbai, a black and yellow taxi, with three passengers and enough ammunition to bring down a dome, sped in the direction of the airport. Instead of taking a slip road that would have taken the passengers straight to the airport, the driver took the flyover which bypassed the airport, only to get stuck at a red light.

At rush hour, the lights stayed red for long, at which the passengers berated the driver and asked him to cut the traffic lights. The driver moved on, but the wait turned out to be a minute or two too long. The car exploded. All that was found was a severed head and parts of three human legs. Had the terrorists' plans of coinciding a blast at the airport with the attacks on the Taj and Oberoi hotels succeeded, the death toll of 26/11 would have been much bigger than it already is.

Planned to perfection

From New York to London, Madrid and Bali, the world has seen horrific terrorists attacks but few have been as perfect in terms of planning, organisation, operation and execution. It was clinical enough to make it apparent that the two dozen or so terrorists had logistical support from scores of "field officers" who mingled with the crowds outside the Taj and Oberoi hotels, not to speak of the many others who were sitting in hideouts watching TV.

The presence of TV crew, many of whom quoted their sources to tell readers about impending action by security forces, came in handy for the terrorists, at least some of whom are reported to have used satellite phones. With TV reporters dishing out exclusives about the actions that the forces were contemplating, it appeared that the terrorists were always a step ahead. The frustration boiled over and the official agencies had to finally ask the hotel management to disconnect TV cables.

190 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:11:08pm

re: #176 DisturbedEma

Today I feel about 108 though. . .

{Ema}
(-:

191 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:11:34pm

re: #186 pre-Boomer Marine brat

heh heh heh ... I don't remember him as a "President" either, and I'm 65.

Trivia -- my ex had a sister living in Georgia back in the 70's. The sister and brother-in-law told us, the people of Georgia were positively THRILLED when Carter left for the White House. (It meant he was out of Georgia.)

Truth be told, my friends from Arkansas did the same with the Clintons. . .with a "good riddance to trash" thrown in. . .and they were/are democrats!

192 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:11:41pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Mumbai: Doctors Shocked At Hostages Torture

Panties on the head? Water marks from boarding? Dick Cheney's teeth marks?

193 Nylecoj  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:12:23pm

re: #185 DisturbedEma

Should be interesting to see him caught with his rhetoric down. . .will he side with the radical friends of the family brigade. . .or will he continue to pander to the Jewish voters should the time come for him to speak to this.

Amazing kool aid enduced crap to see MSM writing at the same time that Bush should step down and allow dear leader to ascend. . .AND that the continuing fiscal and global woes are Bush's fault. . .AND that dear leader has no obligation to comment about India's dead. . .since he is not in office yet. . .

the mind truly boggles

If anyone can find a way to appear to side with his friends and pander at the same time it is 0. As far as the MSM with any luck the longer they keep that up the more likely their heads will explode with the effort.

194 ceemack  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:12:44pm

The world sure has gotten a lot more complicated in the past four days.

/sarc on
But I'm sure our new President-elect and his new Secretary of State-designate, despite their apparent inexperience, are completely up to the task of navigating this difficult situation.
/sarc off

195 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:12:46pm

re: #184 ornery elephant

Isn't it odd that the Indian Coast Guard didn't investigate lost contact with those two officers that were killed? Didn't that leave a Coast Guard boat just floating there? I mean, how much time elapsed from killing the Coast Guard officers to hitting landfall? Seems odd.

We are not supposed to say it in the current climate.

But, with that added to the time it took them to secure several buildings-think how much more efficiently US or Israeli commando operations are done- the evidence points to outrageous incompetence.

196 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:13:44pm

re: #189 GrammatonCleric

Just dead terrorists right?

197 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:14:28pm

re: #193 Nylecoj

If anyone can find a way to appear to side with his friends and pander at the same time it is 0. As far as the MSM with any luck the longer they keep that up the more likely their heads will explode with the effort.

Right, but on Israel. . .even the most deluded Jewish American sheeple have to surface to read the Jerusalem Post. . .I hope.

Rahm as Esther. . .it is now more a cruel joke than any sense of hope

198 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:15:09pm

re: #194 ceemack

The world sure has gotten a lot more complicated in the past four days.

/sarc on
But I'm sure our new President-elect and his new Secretary of State-designate, despite their apparent inexperience, are completely up to the task of navigating this difficult situation.
/sarc off

On the job training never seemed so dangerous. . .

199 ornery elephant  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:16:14pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Mumbai: Doctors Shocked At Hostages Torture

If that doesn't make your blood boil, you are not breathing.

Words cannot express my outrage.

200 DEZes  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:16:49pm

"Each man in the assault team was handed six to seven magazines of 50 bullets each, eight hand grenades, one AK-47 assault rifle, an automatic loading revolver"

WTF is an automatic loading revolver?

201 Opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:17:03pm

re: #194 ceemack

The world sure has gotten a lot more complicated in the past four days.

/sarc on
But I'm sure our new President-elect and his new Secretary of State-designate, despite their apparent inexperience, are completely up to the task of navigating this difficult situation.
/sarc off

You must not have gotten the message.

Just close your eyes and repeat one thousand times:

"Yes we can. Yes we can."

And all will be well.

202 superjan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:17:50pm

@grammaton Cleric

I fear this was the first practice run.

The strategy of hitting more soft targets at one specific time, can be carried out with small teams of resident sleeper cells, relatively lightly armed. A country can have a great commando/police force, but they cant be everywhere at once certainly not during rush hour.

203 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:18:07pm

So, I heard someone on the radio the other day about this horrible massacre. . .
This woman said quite clearly that she wished she had listened to her "woman's intuition" instead of her party. She wanted her vote back, and said in closing "if Sarah Palin were vp elect right now, and McCain were president. . .I would be so much more secure in what direction my country was heading. . ."

Buyers remorse is a real sword. . .

204 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:18:32pm

re: #184 ornery elephant

Isn't it odd that the Indian Coast Guard didn't investigate lost contact with those two officers that were killed? Didn't that leave a Coast Guard boat just floating there? I mean, how much time elapsed from killing the Coast Guard officers to hitting landfall? Seems odd.

Most big failures are a culmination of numerous smaller failures which are individually relatively insignificant. Note the Three-Mile-Island disaster. These tiny failures have led to a tremendous intelligence failure in this instance. These so called "thwarted terrorist attacks" we hear about, occur when somebody picks up on the small mistake.

The rule applies that the intelligence agencies have to be correct 100% of the time, the terrorists only once.

Thank you GWB for bating 1000 since 9/11.

MI

205 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:18:34pm

re: #33 Macker

I'd be force-feeding this bastard SPAM®!

Spam™ is far too good for him. Raw chitterlings would be better.

206 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:18:48pm

re: #189 GrammatonCleric

The presence of TV crew, many of whom ...

I watched both IBN and NDTV.

NDTV didn't show live video of certain things, like what was going on behind the Taj.

IBN hung the NSG and Marcos out to dry.

IBN should be tried for treason.

207 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:19:07pm

re: #205 David IV of Georgia

Spam™ is far too good for him. Raw chitterlings would be better.

Ack! This Kosher Jews says ACK ACK ACK

208 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:20:07pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Mumbai: Doctors Shocked At Hostages Torture

They are evil bastards. How can humans become this way that they would take such pleasure in torturing innocent people?

209 Nylecoj  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:21:23pm

re: #197 DisturbedEma

Right, but on Israel. . .even the most deluded Jewish American sheeple have to surface to read the Jerusalem Post. . .I hope.

Rahm as Esther. . .it is now more a cruel joke than any sense of hope

There is more hope of the sheeple rising to the surface to read the Jerusalem Post than for us to ever get actual news from the MSM. Of course since there is little to no hope of the latter more than that may not be much.
Having spent much of my time here during the terrorist act in Mumbai I was astounded at the lack of knowledge of other people I talked to even though I had been warned by those here monitoring the MSM and letting us know about the lack of coverage.

210 zombie  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:21:34pm
179 Killgore Trout

Mumbai: Doctors Shocked At Hostages Torture

Asked specifically if he was talking of torture marks, he said: "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood," one doctor said.

The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.

We are facing an indiscriminate evil here.

First of all, the things that the U.S. and other western countries do to interrogate prisoners does not even count as "torture" (i.e. waterboarding, humiliation), since there is no actual physical harm involved, and basically no actual pain. Just fear.

But even so, on those very rare occasions when we have waterboarded or humiliated a terror suspect, in every instance it was because we were trying to extract vital information from him about likely upcoming or pending terror attacks. There is a purpose to the "torture" (which isn't really torture) -- to save innocent lives, if possible.

Despite what the American and European Left wants to insist, the torture was not done out of sadistic glee, or just to get a thrill out of it. (The Lynndie England Abu Ghraib photos are a slightly different story -- she was sick in the head -- but those were not official government acts, nor [even in that case] was any real injury done to the prisoners, just extreme humiliation).

But these jihadists, they torture for the sheer sadistic thrill of it. What other purpose could it possibly serve in this case? They weren't trying to extract information from the Rabbi or his wife. They could have simply killed them outright. Why torture? Because the jihadists are clincially sadistic: They enjoy, probably in a sexual way, inflicting pain on others.

They are really no different, psychologically, from the most deranged serial killers, who torture and kill exclusively for their own pleasure.

Extreme Islam is basically an organized cult of sociopathic serial killers.

211 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:21:45pm

re: #186 pre-Boomer Marine brat

heh heh heh ... I don't remember him as a "President" either, and I'm 65.

Trivia -- my ex had a sister living in Georgia back in the 70's. The sister and brother-in-law told us, the people of Georgia were positively THRILLED when Carter left for the White House. (It meant he was out of Georgia.)

Please tell them thanks for making him Governor helping paving his way to become President.

sarc/

212 akak  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:22:11pm

re: #40 lawhawk

Think bigger than that - it's designed to sabotage relations between India and Pakistan, and threatens to undermine the GWoT with the Pakistanis saying that they might move 100,000 from the frontier provinces where they're fighting Taliban/AQ/Islamists and put them on the border with India.


Shocker, you mean their honest brokers in the WoT?

213 yah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:22:48pm

As long as we keep calling Islam a religion of peace and keep telling ourselves that not all Muslims are bad, that most of them are good hard working citizens, there is no pressure for the Muslim communities to stomp out this call to Jihad.
I think we need to start calling all Muslims to accountability. Just like we would a parent who lets their kids destroy other peoples property.
I am not hearing any outrage from them and we need to ask why. We need public statements form leading Muslims condemning all violent Jihad.
If we do not protest it is a signal that these teaching are OK.
It was whites that stomped out the KKK. (well pretty much)
It is the moderate Muslims that have to wipe out the Jihadists. We have fought 2 wars and Islamic terrorists everywhere on earth. I don't see much progress being made. Instead, they seem to be multiplying. It is long overdo to force Islam to clean up its teachings.

214 Joan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:24:15pm

re: #101 zombie

The rules of the game may change, but the core considerations must be preserved. To illustrate: Our concern for hostage rescue is one rule that must change, in my opinion, but not because we have ceased to value innocent life. It is a cruelty inflicted upon us by the enemy, and with the full understanding of our people, in a shared consensus, we may preserve our own humanity by moving quickly and with military expertise to end the situation.

If hostages die in the rescue assault, then our society must honor them, for their deaths were the only way to disarm a terrible enemy. We may teach ourselves and our children that every citizen is now a soldier, and it is possible that hostages may be killed not because they are expendable, but to end the effectiveness of hostage-taking as a tactic, to save future people from being used in this way, lives lost are in this way honored and our core value of respect for individual lives can be preserved.

You make an excellent point about the futility and foolishness of trying to view each act of terror and its perpetrator(s) as discrete events. We can't allow ourselves to fail.

We need to see the handwriting on the wall, and think seriously about a real ethic, a workable new rule that keeps us from our own ruthless natures--for we are in fact a very dangerous nation when we fail to listen to those better angels of our nature. We don't like Gordian Knots. I can't come up with a better approach than "rules of engagement" models, the citizen soldier ethic could accomplish that goal.

We don't have any more time for phony, pacificist hand-wringing. The Left constantly foists this upon us as the only compassionate and moral stance. I hate their constant preening and posturing and parading around. We need the courage and the moral strength to take up our duty to defend ourselves, to count our losses but make the enemy lose multitudes more.

215 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:24:48pm

re: #7 Luigi

I think this attack was designed to take the pressure off AQ on the Afghanistan/Pak border where US and Nato forces have been escalating their cross-border assault on AQ. I think AQ wants to ratchet up the pressure on India to create an atmosphere where the international community will want to deescalate the tension between the nuclear neighbors -- which would be partly accomplished by stepping down these US and Nato attacks on Pakistan's western frontier.

Why ascribe sophisticated motives? The intent was to kill Jews, Christians and Hindus. To damage commerce. This is the work of a movement that has rabies of the soul.

This isn't going to serve any rational national interest of Pakistan. It can only harden opinion in India, and cause India to bestir itself to reform its armed forces and police, which evidently are in desperate need of reform.

It won't serve to reduce pressure on AQ in Afghanistan. Pakistan will be on the spot, and needing to out-out-damned-spot the blood on its hands by doing more against terrorism than it has been.

World opinion won't be so critical of U.S. strikes against AQ. Pakistan won't be in a good position to complain.

216 traderjoe9  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:25:05pm

re: #208 rightymouse

They are evil bastards. How can humans become this way that they would take such pleasure in torturing innocent people?

I stopped considering them humans a long time ago; animals seems like a right word - and even that might be a little too high for them. Any people that takes pride in blowing themselves up, and recruiting young children to blow themselves up are the lowest form of creatures. Its a natural human and animal instinct to protect your children and keep them out of harms way - only the worst creatures, like snakes, could care less.

217 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:25:12pm

re: #200 DEZes

"Each man in the assault team was handed six to seven magazines of 50 bullets each, eight hand grenades, one AK-47 assault rifle, an automatic loading revolver"

WTF is an automatic loading revolver?

There you go again, TRUSTING the media. Remember the grain of salt thing, especially with "journalists" talking about something they are clueless about. Subjects such as firearms, politics, military matters (of any kind)...ah hell, you get the idea.

///

TAF

218 Joan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:26:04pm

re: #171 CommonCents

Once he has told everything his wish should be obliged.

My evil twin wants him kept as a zoological specimen for the instruction of nascent psychopaths worldwide.

219 notutopia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:26:53pm

re: #133 Viking6

No good, but 50 Joules from a defibrillator paddle would be quite enough of an incentive and effective to keep him talking while on his saline...
; O

220 BBev  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:27:28pm

re: #203 DisturbedEma

So, I heard someone on the radio the other day about this horrible massacre. . .
This woman said quite clearly that she wished she had listened to her "woman's intuition" instead of her party. She wanted her vote back, and said in closing "if Sarah Palin were vp elect right now, and McCain were president. . .I would be so much more secure in what direction my country was heading. . ."

Buyers remorse is a real sword. . .

I sent This link (Boston.com) to my moonbat brothers the other day and asked how they now felt about there vote, no answer yet. I guess I have to wait for the cows to come home first.

221 itellu3times  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:27:50pm

re: #215 lostlakehiker

Why ascribe sophisticated motives? The intent was to kill Jews, Christians and Hindus. To damage commerce. This is the work of a movement that has rabies of the soul.

This isn't going to serve any rational national interest of Pakistan.
...

But even that is over-rationalizing. The intent was to participate in jihad.

End of story.

It doesn't really serve Pakistan, but perhaps it serves Islam - they seem to think it does. The irony is, that is probably wrong, in the modern world. I like to think this is Islam destroying itself, but that may be just my western soft-head view at work.

222 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:28:45pm

With reference to all the crap that's been heaped upon the Indian security establishment regarding its response to the attacks -- those doing it are as full of shit as a stockyard.

This operation was something new. If it'd been done inside the U.S., we'd have had to cobble a response together on the fly, just like the Indians had to do.

I'm sure Obama doesn't realize this. I'm sure he doesn't want to deal with it. The first time we get hit with one of these (God forbid), the chickens will come home to roost on Bambi's head.

223 traderjoe9  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:28:51pm

re: #213 yah

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there has been a SINGLE Muslim demonstration speaking out against radical Muslims.

But there have been anti-West demonstrations by Muslims all throughout the world...

The future...

224 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:29:01pm

re: #210 zombie

We are facing an indiscriminate evil here.

First of all, the things that the U.S. and other western countries do to interrogate prisoners does not even count as "torture" (i.e. waterboarding, humiliation), since there is no actual physical harm involved, and basically no actual pain. Just fear.

But even so, on those very rare occasions when we have waterboarded or humiliated a terror suspect, in every instance it was because we were trying to extract vital information from him about likely upcoming or pending terror attacks. There is a purpose to the "torture" (which isn't really torture) -- to save innocent lives, if possible.

Despite what the American and European Left wants to insist, the torture was not done out of sadistic glee, or just to get a thrill out of it. (The Lynndie England Abu Ghraib photos are a slightly different story -- she was sick in the head -- but those were not official government acts, nor [even in that case] was any real injury done to the prisoners, just extreme humiliation).

But these jihadists, they torture for the sheer sadistic thrill of it. What other purpose could it possibly serve in this case? They weren't trying to extract information from the Rabbi or his wife. They could have simply killed them outright. Why torture? Because the jihadists are clincially sadistic: They enjoy, probably in a sexual way, inflicting pain on others.

They are really no different, psychologically, from the most deranged serial killers, who torture and kill exclusively for their own pleasure.

Extreme Islam is basically an organized cult of sociopathic serial killers.


That fact is ignored, or worse, downplayed. . .how about the fact that in all likelihood the blood soaking the clothes of 2 year old Moshe belonged to his mother.

225 Catttt  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:29:45pm

My prayer is that the living terrorist and the dead ones, as well as all of their cohorts behind the scenes, as well as each person who supports them in any way whatsoever, get what they deserve - if not in this life, then in the next.

Other than that, I am pretty much speechless with horror.

226 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:31:16pm

re: #223 traderjoe9

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there has been a SINGLE Muslim demonstration speaking out against radical Muslims.

But there have been anti-West demonstrations by Muslims all throughout the world...

The future...

The myth of the Moderate Muslim suffers a blow. . .again

227 akak  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:31:17pm

re: #223 traderjoe9

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there has been a SINGLE Muslim demonstration speaking out against radical Muslims.

But there have been anti-West demonstrations by Muslims all throughout the world...

The future...


Has Jim Jones congratulated the terrorists yet?

228 rumcrook  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:31:44pm

re: #3 Ojoe

I do not want people like this living near my family.

by that if you mean on this planet im with you. anyone giving aid comfort or participating in this jihaddi evil should "leave the planet"

229 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:31:52pm

re: #211 BBev

Please tell them thanks for making him Governor helping paving his way to become President.

sarc/

(yes, I DO see the sarc .. heh)

Never fear, my ex's kin wouldn't have voted for him for sewer-cleaner!

230 kenprice  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:31:58pm

A few comments: I'm certain India has typical British gun control, insuring that few, if any, private citizens own or carries a handgun. Try the same thing in many places in the USA and you'll be rapidly perforated.

Secondly, the Indians have (at least) 9 terrorist corpses. Give them proper treatment, such as burial in pig shit, and make it known that all future terrorists will be given the same handling.

Lastly, make it clear to Pakistan that either they take care of the various terrorist groups in their country or "the world" will do it for them. Years ago we had the concept of "outlaws", meaning people who were not protected by any law, and could be hunted, and killed, whenever and wherever found. Pirates were the classic case, and were normally hung as soon as captured. It's time to bring back the concept, and to hell with the "Human Rights" crowd.

231 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:33:07pm

re: #227 akak

Has Jim Jones congratulated the terrorists yet?

My favorite response? Calling on those who have been attacked to show restraint. . .

Only in the leather and chain variety. . .wrapped about securely. . .to impede escape of terrorists

232 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:33:22pm

re: #216 traderjoe9

I stopped considering them humans a long time ago; animals seems like a right word - and even that might be a little too high for them. Any people that takes pride in blowing themselves up, and recruiting young children to blow themselves up are the lowest form of creatures. Its a natural human and animal instinct to protect your children and keep them out of harms way - only the worst creatures, like snakes, could care less.

It's as though they were all raised to be sociopathic - without conscience.

And the ones who resist can't really escape because the madness is all around them in one form or another.

233 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:34:42pm

re: #232 rightymouse

It's as though they were all raised to be sociopathic - without conscience.

And the ones who resist can't really escape because the madness is all around them in one form or another.

If you socialize them young enough, Westerners and Jews are never seen as human. . .it becomes the norm to kill that which is not human.

234 yah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:35:03pm

re: #223 traderjoe9
And still no one says "this is enough of your crap."

235 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:35:34pm

I'm going over to the new thread, to see if it's degenerated into puns.

I need a break from what's here -- been living with it since Wednesday evening.

236 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:36:11pm

re: #234 yah

And still no one says "this is enough of your crap."

waiting for the moderate muslims to do it. . .along with the Loch Ness monster, Yeti, and jackalopes

crickets. . .

237 traderjoe9  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:36:11pm

re: #230 kenprice


Secondly, the Indians have (at least) 9 terrorist corpses. Give them proper treatment, such as burial in pig shit, and make it known that all future terrorists will be given the same handling.

Thats brilliant.

238 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:36:52pm

re: #235 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm going over to the new thread, to see if it's degenerated into puns.

I need a break from what's here -- been living with it since Wednesday evening.

so, gonna cut and pun huh?

239 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:37:59pm

re: #108 Ojoe

All Muslims who remain silent are complicit as I see it.

I don't hear much.

Thankfully the tinnitus has now resolved for me, the silence is truly deafening.

BTW, thanks for the up-ding.

MI

240 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:38:34pm

re: #233 DisturbedEma

If you socialize them young enough, Westerners and Jews are never seen as human. . .it becomes the norm to kill that which is not human.

That's one reason why tyrants love to use the young - they are easily molded and their humanity snuffed out inside.

241 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:40:27pm

re: #240 rightymouse

That's one reason why tyrants love to use the young - they are easily molded and their humanity snuffed out inside.

Yes- before it has a chance to grow, if you raise children to believe that Jews are subhuman, and attach especially horrible labels to them like pigs and monkeys. . .the leap is not much at all, they are not humans they are animals, and children never see the humanity in their Jewish victims.

242 Idle Drifter  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:40:41pm

re: #217 Militant-Infidel

Actually there are auto-revolvers such as the Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver and the Mateba Autorevolver. In my opinion I don't see them having much of an advantage if any over normal revolvers or automatics.

243 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:41:39pm

"Delhi Police has picked up some suspects in connection with the Mumbai terror attacks. Details of some mobile calls that were traced after the Mumbai attack by agencies in the Valley have been shared with Delhi Police. A source said "some of the calls have been traced to Delhi and their call pattern has so far revealed that mobile numbers were being used to call Delhi and Mumbai. We are in the process of veryfying those numbers and addresses in Delhi.''"

[Link: www.daijiworld.com...]

Also see bomb threats to Delhi Airport.

244 Joan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:42:32pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Yup, I'm pretty sure they do. Hanging or firing squad from what I recall.

/*Yess!* nobody here to hi-five, fitb

245 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:46:37pm
246 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:49:53pm

If a terrorist ever tries to use me as a hostage or human shield—a full metal jacketed rifle bullet will go through two bodies.

247 Wilderstad  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:50:43pm

My heart is heavy. My anger increased. I will never look again at a Muslim with dispassionate eyes.

248 rightymouse  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:51:06pm

re: #241 DisturbedEma

Yes- before it has a chance to grow, if you raise children to believe that Jews are subhuman, and attach especially horrible labels to them like pigs and monkeys. . .the leap is not much at all, they are not humans they are animals, and children never see the humanity in their Jewish victims.

I've met children who were poorly parented. They are impossible and horribly disrespectful to everyone and everything. So I multiply that by infinity to try and come close to what young boys and girls must go through in Islamic cultural/religious indoctrination where there is no escape to other cultures/ideologies. Boggles my mind.

249 Idle Drifter  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:51:14pm

re: #222 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With reference to all the crap that's been heaped upon the Indian security establishment regarding its response to the attacks -- those doing it are as full of shit as a stockyard.

This operation was something new. If it'd been done inside the U.S., we'd have had to cobble a response together on the fly, just like the Indians had to do.

I'm sure Obama doesn't realize this. I'm sure he doesn't want to deal with it. The first time we get hit with one of these (God forbid), the chickens will come home to roost on Bambi's head.

This could be the beginning of many such operations since they can have a prolonged effect on a city and the country at large instead of the suicide mission which is over in a matter of minutes or hours depending on the number of suicide bombers.

My one fear with our incoming President taking over in January is that he may prove to be impudent and unwilling to face reality to fight these terrorists. Obama may take actions that only cripple our resolve and ability to respond militarily or even bind the citizens' right to self defense. Which will only encourage more terror attacks.

250 ceemack  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:51:16pm

re: #200 DEZes

"Each man in the assault team was handed six to seven magazines of 50 bullets each, eight hand grenades, one AK-47 assault rifle, an automatic loading revolver"

WTF is an automatic loading revolver?


There's no such thing as an "automatic revolver".

But then, there's no such thing as an AK mag that holds 50 rounds either...or one that holds "bullets", since they actually hold entire cartridges.

There's also no such thing as a mainstream journalist who knows beans about firearms. See the AFP photo of an Iraqi woman holding up a live cartridge and saying it was a bullet American forces had fired at her house.

251 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:54:35pm

re: #245 Iron Fist

I'm not sure I buy this. I've never seen a 50 round magazine for an AK-47. I've seen 40 rounders (obscenely long) and 75 round drums. The latter are good, but you'd be over burdened with more than a couple of them. 300 rounds of 7.62X39 is also some weight to carry. One man can do it, but it will slow him down. Eight hand grenades is also a lot for one person to carry when it's in addition to a rifle and a lot of ammunition.

I don't have any fucking idea what an automatic loading revolver is. I suspect that it is a mistranslation and "handgun" is what they mean, but that is a guess.

I don't know what they would need with a credit card. It's not like they are going to be running a bar tab while they're cranking rounds downrange. OTH, it doesn't weigh fifty freaking pounds, so I guess they could stick it in their wallet. I guess they didn't want to be saddled with making an expense report after the drill.

And I don't know why the bothered with the dried fruit when they've already got a fruitcake on their hands.

I'm not saying any of this is impossible, but they would be carrying a pretty awkward, heavy burden for your run of the mill Jihadi.

Chinese AK-47s have 40 rounders, but the Russian original has an option for 50 round mag. Can send specs by e-mail if you like.

Aouto-loading revolver is a revolver customized (or in some cases manufactured) for quick reloading - the drum is hollow and the cartriges sit in a plastic drum fill that can be extremely quickly replaced. It's a good way to rig a powerful revolver for reloading as quick as that of a pistol. Again - can send specs by e-mail.

252 markx  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:57:29pm

re: #26 SummerSong

He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

We don't care what you want, Akam.

I hope he gets life in prison. Being someone's bitch in an Indian prison for the next 50 years...

253 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:58:05pm

re: #245 Iron Fist

I don't think that this is a very accurate retelling of facts, but more of a cobbled together press release. "How much of this can we tell ... what can we tell the reporters to get them off our backs for awhile?"

254 Idle Drifter  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 12:59:24pm

re: #245 Iron Fist

Militant-Infidel brought this up earlier, the translation more than likely what you said handgun or pistol. Perhaps the original word did mean revolver but no new word was introduced for an automatic pistol/handgun for their language so when the translation came through the idiots in the press corps didn't bother to make the necessary edits for the western audience. I may be reaching to far for an explanation and it's making my head hurt.

255 markx  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:00:16pm

re: #251 Twilight

- can send specs by e-mail.

LOL, I just love LGF...

Your one stop shopping...

256 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:03:08pm

re: #249 Idle Drifter

This could be isthe beginning of many such operations since they can have a prolonged effect on a city and the country at large instead of the suicide mission which is over in a matter of minutes or hours depending on the number of suicide bombers.

My one fear with our incoming President taking over in January is that he may prove will be impudent and unwilling to face reality to fight these terrorists. Obama may will take actions that only cripple our resolve and ability to respond militarily or even bind the citizens' right to self defense. Which will only encourage more terror attacks.

My nightmare- The clueless appeaser dear leader

257 Griffon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:03:41pm

re: #96 Smilla

Maybe, but it is not the only place to live and it doesn't solve the problem. These attacks can happen anywhere now. How about some compassion for those people who live in Mumbai?

I have a lot of compassion for people who aren't as fortunate as I. I can't imagine having my life torn apart by the likes of the people who are responsible for the strife in Mumbai and Nigeria, and what some peoples of the world suffer daily is abominable. Being thankful that I was fortunate to be born here and having compassion for those who are subjected to such strife are not mutually exclusive. I am also thankful that our government has kept us safe for the last 7 years. I wish every country had the intelligence assets at hand that we do, along with the ability to stop threats before they happen. And I hope our government can continue to keep us safe.

258 pingjockey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:04:01pm

I wonder how much of this confession is true and how much is just enough truth to get the press to STFU for a while?

259 MacGiolaPhadraig  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:04:34pm

re: 250
"There's no such thing as an "automatic revolver".

I believe GE makes one ;)

260 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:05:11pm

re: #242 Idle Drifter

Actually there are auto-revolvers such as the Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver and the Mateba Autorevolver. In my opinion I don't see them having much of an advantage if any over normal revolvers or automatics.

Actually, I have seen pictures of these beasts (that is the best word for them) in some of my antique gun books. I expect there aren't two such people in the entire MSM (excluding of course the gun magazines).

MI

261 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:05:39pm

re: #227 akak

Has Jim Jones congratulated the terrorists yet?

Why would he?

262 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:09:26pm

re: #251 Twilight

As for heavy loads - how much do you think a regular soldier carries on himself during any infantry operation?
At average - 40 kg. Though special forces and some other units can amoput to 60 kg.
Example: 1*M4A2+upgrades+M203 (3.8 kg), 6*30*5.56 mags (0.5 kg each), AK-47 (3.5 kg), 6*30*7.62 (0.6 kg each), combat gear - vest canteens and the rest (about 10 kg), M72 (8 kg), 3* M72 shots (3 kg each), rations (about 4 kg), combat knife (aprox 2 kg), 6*mk77 frag grenades (0.5 kg each), 5*40mm grenades (0.4 kg each). About 40 kg total, 24/7 - that's a normal combat load.

263 doriangrey  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:09:41pm

re: #261 rightwinger3

Why would he?

Because they are meeting up in hell right about now...

264 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:10:41pm

re: #255 markx

What do you mean?

265 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:10:59pm

re: #263 doriangrey

Because they are meeting up in hell right about now...

I hope

266 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:11:40pm

re: #245 Iron Fist

Made in the USA

267 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:11:41pm

re: #254 Idle Drifter

See my #251 and #262.

268 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:12:59pm

re: #263 doriangrey

Because they are meeting up in hell right about now...

Gotcha. I was thinking of the Commandant.

269 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:14:25pm
270 Idle Drifter  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:14:55pm

re: #260 Militant-Infidel

Actually, I have seen pictures of these beasts (that is the best word for them) in some of my antique gun books. I expect there aren't two such people in the entire MSM (excluding of course the gun magazines).

MI

You are correct, there probably none of such people outside of GUNS Magazine (my favorite), Guns & Ammo, American Rifleman, etc. These are the same people in the MSM that would call my semi-auto Bushmaster Carbon-15 an assualt rifle or my Ruger M77 Mark II bolt action rifle a sniper gun.

271 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:16:31pm
272 Idle Drifter  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:18:17pm

re: #271 Iron Fist

Um, the only problem with that is that it is an airsoft "weapon" magazine. They're toys. Realistic looking, I'll grant you, but toys nonetheless.

The MSM wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

273 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:19:42pm

re: #271 Iron Fist

LOL. I didn't read through. Anyway it's probably just MSM bullshit...you know "hey no one will know" typical MSM.

274 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:20:25pm
275 Buck  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:21:36pm

re: #128 blame canada

Can anyone explain why hundreds of thousands of european university students held rallies defending poor hezbollah against israel, but nobody rallies against these islamonazis? Stupid moonbats

The sight of Jews defending themselves is revolting to some people. Every other group or society has the right to defend themselves from attack. In fact when groups other than jews are attacked, people ask why they didn't defend themselves. Why they would not take their own defense into their own hands? Rawanda, and the Kurds for example.

Stupid? Maybe.. Useful to the cause of killing jews? Most certainly.

276 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:22:24pm

re: #272 Idle Drifter

The MSM wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

The MSM can't even tell the difference between fired and unfired. Remember the picture of that Palistinian lady with the two rounds?

277 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:23:23pm

re: #274 Iron Fist

It's true that an average American infantry soldier carries a heavy burden into combat, but we aren't talking about soldiers. Jihadis are more like gangbangers with a quasi-religious gig going on as extra motivation.

Don't underestimate. We sure as hell didn't. They jump through flaming hoops.

278 Wendya  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:24:17pm

re: #16 Militant-Infidel

The political ramifications of Pakistani involvement are WAY too dangerous to comprehend.

Factions in Pakistan might be involved and then again, this "confession" might be designed to stir the pot between India and Pakistan. Both sides are going to have to tread very carefully.

279 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:27:49pm

re: #269 Iron Fist

Chinese weapons ship with 30 round magazines. 30 is what you commonly see on the news and such. I think the 40 rounders I've seen were East German in manufacture. I've seen 50 round magazines for an uzi, and I can tell you that they just plain don't work. The weight of the ammo is too heavy for the spring to push up enough to feed the weapon. I think the standard uzi magazine is 30 or 32 rounds.

I wonder if 50 round AK mags would have the same feeding problems? That is a lot of weight for the spring to lift.

I think I understand what you mean with an "automatic" revolver. I've never seen such a weapon, but I can see where it could be made. It seems a bit exotic for this kind of operation. There may be something the police can trace with these type of weapons.

Russian 50 round AK-47 mag is well made with a solid steel spring, it has some handling problems for noobs and makes the weapon a bit clumsy in the hands of an unexperienced fighter. And even experienced fighters tend to overbalance a bit, for which they compensate with more massive firing - the end result is that if you are a good shooter you don't need the extra rounds, unless you plan a rapid and inaccurate into-the-crowd firing. The over balancing combined with AK's natural tendency to throw rounds makes for a good crowd killer. The 50 rounders are sturdy and con hold through massive firing.
In my day I preferred to stick to the customized 25 round mags - makes the weapon more maneuverable in a tight situation.

Several manufacturers make auto-reloading revolvers (don't remember them now, but can send model names/specs/numbers later). A useful weapon for immediate range takedown of multiple targets. Thats probably why they used them.

280 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:28:37pm

re: #269 Iron Fist

Standard Uzi mag - 25*9mm.

281 prince of dorkness  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:29:17pm

He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

Well there we agree on something. Die you greasy rat bastard!

282 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:34:14pm

re: #254 Idle Drifter

Militant-Infidel brought this up earlier, the translation more than likely what you said handgun or pistol. Perhaps the original word did mean revolver but no new word was introduced for an automatic pistol/handgun for their language so when the translation came through the idiots in the press corps didn't bother to make the necessary edits for the western audience. I may be reaching to far for an explanation and it's making my head hurt.

The specifics should be mistrusted. I know, I have a rough time communicating with our Indian RN's, and we are nominally speaking the same language. The general gist of the article is probably correct however. This was a well planned, financed and surveyed project. While probably not signed off by UBL himself, it has the hallmarks of an Al Qaeda operation at least in philosophy.

There are three possible bogeymen. The ISI (or some direct Pakistan involvement), internal (homegrown) Islamic jihadists or Al Qaeda. The first will likely lead to direct confrontation between two nuclear armed adversaries (talk about a not so cold war becoming hot). The second will likely lead to additional sectarian violence in India (not an uncommon event there), and possibly lead to direct Pak/India confrontation via Islamic "brotherhood". The third is to blame it on a third party (UBL/AQ or others) which can be swept under the rug as part of the "GWoT". I expect this Pakistani link to be downplayed IF there is any hope that cooler heads will prevail. If not, we have definitely entered into a new era or "turning point" as mentioned earlier.

MI

283 Semi Cartman  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:35:56pm

re: #245 Iron Fist

I 'll give 'em what we call 'journalistic license', they only report what they're told, there's no time for technical analysis in a case like this. Look at the photos of the offender in action at the train station. Thirty round magazines taped together. That weird side folding stock on the AK is familiar, but I forget whose pattern it is. Huge bag on his shoulder could hold enough stuff to raise hell for a week. The credit cards would help facilitate their escape, at least that's what they thought. And in a large part of the world all sidearms are called 'revolvers', Solzhenitsyn did it a lot in his writing. Probably due to the lack of detailed exposure to arms by civilians in most of the world. One of the things Americans can take for granted, thanks to God.


These assholes Weren't run of the mill self destructors. This was a genuine international mission arranged under the nose of a failed state with the capacity to spawn this a hundred more times if it isn't recognized and smacked down now.

284 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:36:21pm

re: #274 Iron Fist

It's true that an average American infantry soldier carries a heavy burden into combat, but we aren't talking about soldiers. Jihadis are more like gangbangers with a quasi-religious gig going on as extra motivation.

A well trained jihadi is like a soldier in every respect except uniform - seen it first hand. Their elite is quite good (professionally) and VERY deadly. They are also quite well (surprisingly) equipped. I suspect that (former) Russian Spetznaz/GRU members are involved in their training.

285 doubledip  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:38:33pm
Azam said the attacks on the Taj and The Oberoi Trident were aimed to create a "Sept 11 in India"

Apparently, the 9/11 troofers forgot to let Azam and his gang in on the troof that ONLY BushCo (not gun-toting, grenade-throwing, Caucasian-seeking radical Islamists) can create Sept 11's.

286 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:39:19pm
287 Semi Cartman  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:40:25pm

re: #272 Idle Drifter

The MSM wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

The victims would, though.

288 Edward Halper  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:43:52pm

Perhaps it's too obvious to mention: the MSM have been tripping over themselves to deny that this was anything like 9/11. Their so-called "experts" have tried to tie this attack to disaffected Indian Muslims and even cast doubt whether Muslims were behind it at all. They seem to be assuming that radical Islam will not threaten us if we don't call it by its name.

289 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:47:23pm

I think that the MSM will treat this as a mere internal Indian affair or as a local Indian-Pakistani problem and not as anything having to do with a Global War on Terror or global jihad. It's the other side of the world—every religion, including the Religion of Peace™ has a few bad eggs—move along, it's not your problem—go back to sleep, sheeple.

290 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:49:15pm
291 enoughalready  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:52:05pm

I don't know. Everyone wants to see this as terrorism but this smells more like an act of war to me, or as a way to instigate a war or at least force a military coup (in Pakistan, not India). In my mind this has nothing to do with 72 virgins but an awful lot to do with international security

292 DEZes  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:52:18pm

[Link: world.guns.ru...]

OK, they do make auto revovers.
Shrugs

293 Twilight  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:52:35pm

re: #286 Iron Fist

Not exotic at all. Maximized for killing crowds more like it.

When you fire AK-47 with 50 round mags the pressure on your wrist causes you to overbalance, so you lean back a tad to redistribute the weight. Now you're aiming too high and you need to lower the barrel a few degrees, breaking the firing angle which reduces accuracy for aimed shots BUT actually is good for massive firing into center-mass at immediate-short ranges (rather than go for head/throat/heart -what I usually did at these ranges). All this isn't a great boon when faced with enemies who disperse, fire back and use standard combat techniques, but when faced with unarmed crowds it makes for a perfect tool for mass murder. And it's way more mobile in skilled hands than a heavy anti-personnel machine gun. Perfect crowd killer.
By the way - Chinese AK-47 won't handle 50 round mag, not because of the mag though. Chinese AK-47 have the same problems with massive shooting as M16A2/M4A2.

As I said above, auto-reloading revolver is perfect for immediate range takedown of multiple targets i.e close quarter shootout or massacre.

294 ProUSA  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:53:11pm

Maybe it is just me, but I'm starting to see a connection between Muslims and terrorism.

/do I need to

These past few days many posters on other blogs make comments about Christians unreasonably assuming all Muslims are terrorist, and that we should instead focus on the nice Muslims. Well, when more than a few Muslims stand up and become part of the solution, I'll think about changing my view.

The only thing these terrorists understand is overwhelming defeat. I haven't wanted it to come to this, but at some point we have to accept WWII type efforts (when necessary, we didn't hesitate demoralizing the enemy as a whole -- not just the individuals on the battlefield) to being about victory.

295 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:53:58pm

re: #270 Idle Drifter

You are correct, there probably none of such people outside of GUNS Magazine (my favorite), Guns & Ammo, American Rifleman, etc. These are the same people in the MSM that would call my semi-auto Bushmaster Carbon-15 an assualt rifle or my Ruger M77 Mark II bolt action rifle a sniper gun.

But they must be secure in their belief that the rest of the world will not notice their "mistakes". . .they did not photoshop for the desired effect. . .they just misled. . .

296 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:55:27pm

re: #294 ProUSA

Maybe it is just me, but I'm starting to see a connection between Muslims and terrorism.

/do I need to

These past few days many posters on other blogs make comments about Christians unreasonably assuming all Muslims are terrorist, and that we should instead focus on the nice Muslims. Well, when more than a few Muslims stand up and become part of the solution, I'll think about changing my view.

The only thing these terrorists understand is overwhelming defeat. I haven't wanted it to come to this, but at some point we have to accept WWII type efforts (when necessary, we didn't hesitate demoralizing the enemy as a whole -- not just the individuals on the battlefield) to being about victory.

We were just discussing the Moderate Muslim; Myth, legend or reality. . .welcome to the program

We have the Yeti on the line who claims to be a neighbor of a Moderate Muslim- caller you are on the air and welcome. . .

///

297 razorbacker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:56:50pm

re: #33 Macker

I'd be force-feeding this bastard SPAM®!

Nope. Not SPAM. Chitterlings. And don't take too much trouble in cleaning them first, either.

298 Semi Cartman  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:58:31pm

re: #293 TwilightBlockquote>As I said above, auto-reloading revolver is perfect for immediate range takedown of multiple targets i.e close quarter shootout or massacre.
What?

299 anant  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 1:58:45pm

Apparently it took 9.5 for the NSG commandos to get there. Why? Because NSG commandos are ONLY stationed in Delhi

[Link: timesofindia.indiatimes.com...]

Now why, would you ask, would India's elite counter-terrorism units ONLY be stationed in Delhi? Because that's where all the politicians are! Apparently it never occurred to the asshats in the Indian government that ordinary citizens might need protection, too.

Once again, thank God we have the 2nd Amendment

300 notutopia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:00:43pm

re: #245 Iron Fist

I inquired yesterday about his rifle. Look at the pix again. Does it look like a 50 round mag? (45+/-) Doesn't to me. But, they could be Russian AK's and they use 50 rounders. Though I don't think the mags in the photo are long enough.
The ballistic reports will let us know the ammo origins. The casings are clearly brass from the pix.

301 Joan  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:01:41pm

re: #87 SixDegrees

I'm surprised we haven't seen Amnesty International or the International Red Cross file human rights complaints over this yet.

Maybe we should consider outsourcing our interrogations to Mumbai. It sounds like they're goal oriented.

Hmmm. Maybe India gets a pass because___? Well, maybe because The One might need to know the information to succeed as POTUS, so the human rights investigation is on hold for a more opportune moment. Could these neutral human rights NGO's have a poltical axe to grind? Not possible. Shocking thought, shame on me.

302 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:04:55pm

re: #299 anant

I don't know about this anant. It's not as if the US has anti-terrorist teams in every big US city either.

303 razorbacker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:05:31pm

Doctors shocked at hostages's torture

A senior National Security Guard officer, who had earlier explained the operation in detail to rediff.com, said the commandos went all out after they ascertained that there were no more hostages left. When asked if the commandos attempted to capture them alive at that stage, he replied: "Unko bachana kaun chahega (Who will want to save them)?"

Who indeed. Who indeed will want to save them.

304 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:06:55pm

re: #297 razorbacker

Nope. Not SPAM. Chitterlings. And don't take too much trouble in cleaning them first, either.

re: #205 David IV of Georgia

Spam™ is far too good for him. Raw chitterlings would be better.

305 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:07:05pm
306 Anant  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:11:47pm

re: #302 rightwinger3

Well we sorta do, right? We have SWAT teams. I guarantee that if someone had tried this at a hotel in New York, we wouldn't have had to wait for our government to fly in a team from Washington - NYPD SWAT probably would have handled it. Besides, we're much better at moving people around internally than the Indians are because we have the necessary infrastructure. Someone in India should have realized that it would take a long time to get the NSG from Delhi to one of the other major cities and planned accordingly.

307 razorbacker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:12:00pm

re: #304 David IV of Georgia

Must be a southern thang.

308 mich-again  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:15:01pm
Surprisingly, the men did not expect themselves to be suicide terrorists. Azam said they had originally planned to sail back on Thursday - the recruiters had even charted out a return route, stored on a GPS device.

I was thinking along those lines. It didn't seem like the terrorists intended this to be a suicide mission. But I had the escape route figured wrong. hmmm.

I wonder if the gunmen were all on a suicide mission of if maybe some were led to believe this was a get in get out hostage taking operation..
309 FrogMarch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:16:22pm
pretending to be Malaysian student

uh - yeah - we get that here in mushy america.

310 rightwinger3  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:17:31pm

re: #306 Anant

Not the same thing. SWAT does train for anti-terror but who's to say the Mumbai police don't as well. I don't know you could be right it was just a thought.

311 Skywarner  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:18:09pm

I know the source is Debka, but...

Indian air and missile forces on war footing, Pakistani armored units diverted from Afghan border

[Link: www.debka.com...]

Tick, tick, tick...

312 FrogMarch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:23:04pm

That is incredible. They left a trail of dead bodies before they even started.

313 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:23:16pm

re: #307 razorbacker

Must be a southern thang.

I've so far successfully spent my life trying to remain willfully ignorant of that "delicacy". I've only met one or two people who admit that they've eaten chitlins. That's close enough for me.

314 Anant  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:23:38pm

re: #311 Skywarner

I'm skeptical of that story if only because the Indian government is far too spineless to retaliate. Every other provocation by Pakistan goes unanswered, this one will too.

315 razorbacker  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:26:20pm

re: #313 David IV of Georgia

I've so far successfully spent my life trying to remain willfully ignorant of that "delicacy". I've only met one or two people who admit that they've eaten chitlins. That's close enough for me.

If ever you should find yourself in sunny Mexico, stay away from the menudo.

Just saying, is all.

316 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:33:09pm

re: #315 razorbacker

If ever you should find yourself in sunny Mexico, stay away from the menudo.

Just saying, is all.

Menudo?

/would it be too horrible to make Azam the terrorist watch that?

317 Pope Insouciance IV  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:38:27pm

First, if this is the information the Indian government is releasing, just imagine what they're holding back.
Second, the jihadists now have a successful model and a year to plan before the next Black Friday shopping day/ Christmas Eve church service/ football game/ you name it.

Oh please Mr. Obama, send the enchanted unicorns to keep us safe!

318 markx  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:52:43pm

re: #264 Twilight

Anything about any subject can be found on LGF.

Need specs on AK47 mags? --can be found here.

LOL

319 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:53:16pm

re: #309 FrogMarch

uh - yeah - we get that here in mushy america.

You mean like touring Pakistan as an Indonesian student?

MI

320 notutopia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:53:22pm

re: #317 Pope Insouciance IV
Here are many examples of Media [Link: www.democast.com...]

From Democracy Broadcasting
Islamic-supmemacists slay 6 innocent Jews to prove 'Holy War' essence of terror crusade, despite MSM denials
Jihadist terrorists (including 7 born and raised in Great Britain) massacre 6 innocent western Jews among 150 slain in Mumbai, 327 wounded.
Why?
Because they see their jihad in India as just one part of the larger jihad against America, Britain, and the West, and against Israel. And because the Qur'an says that "strongest among men in enmity to the believers you will find the Jews..." (5:82).

How many more such outrages, how many more wanton murders of innocent people, will the non-Muslim world endure before it wakes up? How many more iterations of "it's only a tiny minority of extremists," and "what about the Crusades?" and "speaking about Jihad violence is Islamophobia and bigotry" must we endure before the mainstream media (liberal and conservative) begins to talk about this issue seriously?

Here are more links providing different perspectives on the Jihad Terrorism in Bombay (Mumbai) India:

Six bodies removed from Jewish centre in Mumbai The Age (Australia)

Six people, including a rabbi and his wife, were killed at a Jewish centre in Mumbai, Israeli officials said - one of 10 sites besieged by suspected Muslim militants in a spectacular assault on India's commercial capital.

The orthodox Jewish Chabad-Lubavitch organization reported earlier from its New York headquarters that the victims included its emissary to Mumbai, Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, who ran the centre, and his wife, Rivkah. The couple's toddler son, Moshe, 2, survived the assault and escaped the building with a centre employee on Thursday.

The organisation identified two other victims as Rabbi Leibish Teitlebaum ( son-in-law of the head of the Toldos Avraham Yitzhak Chassidic sect from Brooklyn) and Ben Tzion Chroman, his Israeli co-worker with dual US citizenship. An unidentified second Israeli woman was also killed, it said.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry later said the body of an unidentified third woman was also found inside the five-story building.

The motivation behind Mumbai jihadi terror:

Dr. Andrew Bostom, author of The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism provides historical context on The Legacy of Jihad in India, published in The American Thinker in 2005. Click link to read.

Today Dr. Bostom updates the news: The ethos of the Mumbai Jihad on Chabad Jewish family: “Whenever a Jew is killed it is for the benefit of Islam.”

This tragedy within a much larger tragedy reminded me of the Indian Sufi “inspiration” for The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, Ahmad Sirhindi. Nearing completion of my first book compendium, The Legacy of Jihad, in early 2005, specifically the section about jihad on the Indian subcontinent, I came across a remarkable comment by the Indian Sufi theologian Sirhindi (d. 1624). Typical of the mainstream Muslim clerics of his era, Sirhindi was viscerally opposed to the reforms which characterized the latter ecumenical phase of Akbar’s 16th century reign (when Akbar became almost a Muslim-Hindu syncretist), particularly the abolition of the humiliating jizya (Koranic poll tax, as per Koran 9:29) upon the subjugated infidel Hindus. In the midst of an anti-Hindu tract Sirhindi wrote, motivated by Akbar’s pro-Hindu reforms, he observes, “Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the benefit of Islam.”

321 twincitiesgirl  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:57:44pm

re: #317 Pope Insouciance IV

I can't help but thinking how much better we would be sleeping right now if McCain were President Elect instead of The (clueless) One.

/reality bites

322 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 2:58:01pm

re: #294 ProUSA

Maybe it is just me, but I'm starting to see a connection between Muslims and terrorism.

/do I need to

These past few days many posters on other blogs make comments about Christians unreasonably assuming all Muslims are terrorist, and that we should instead focus on the nice Muslims. Well, when more than a few Muslims stand up and become part of the solution, I'll think about changing my view.

The only thing these terrorists understand is overwhelming defeat. I haven't wanted it to come to this, but at some point we have to accept WWII type efforts (when necessary, we didn't hesitate demoralizing the enemy as a whole -- not just the individuals on the battlefield) to being about victory.

Think about the poor SWAT/SpecOps personnel in India. How would you like to go into a firefight where 12% of the population (likely the same split in PD/Military) may be co-conspirators. I would be more concerned about my 6 than my 12.

MI

323 Promethea  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:01:34pm

re: #157 wiffersnapper

Obama must be shitting his pants right about now.

Naw, he's "cool." I personally think he's too narcisstic to worry about what happens to other people. He'll probably just make a nice speech.

324 Promethea  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:03:19pm

re: #202 superjan

@grammaton Cleric

I fear this was the first practice run.

The strategy of hitting more soft targets at one specific time, can be carried out with small teams of resident sleeper cells, relatively lightly armed. A country can have a great commando/police force, but they cant be everywhere at once certainly not during rush hour.

This is the major reason why I've never thought the War on Terror was over. It's too easy to kill lots of people.

325 displaced yankee  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:04:51pm

re: #230 kenprice

A few comments: I'm certain India has typical British gun control, insuring that few, if any, private citizens own or carries a handgun. Try the same thing in many places in the USA and you'll be rapidly perforated.

Secondly, the Indians have (at least) 9 terrorist corpses. Give them proper treatment, such as burial in pig shit, and make it known that all future terrorists will be given the same handling.

Lastly, make it clear to Pakistan that either they take care of the various terrorist groups in their country or "the world" will do it for them. Years ago we had the concept of "outlaws", meaning people who were not protected by any law, and could be hunted, and killed, whenever and wherever found. Pirates were the classic case, and were normally hung as soon as captured. It's time to bring back the concept, and to hell with the "Human Rights" crowd.


That would require massive injections of testosterone. The West cannot even deal with the Somali pirates. who are, well, pirates.

326 Paul  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:13:21pm

It seems to me that ten men armed with eight grenades apiece and AK-47s with six or seven magazines couldn't create so much chaos over two and a half days. I think there may have been more terrorists involved or perhaps there were caches of weapons and ammunition stashed ahead of time.

327 Silvergirl  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:14:43pm

This little man is singing like a canary, isn't he? I wonder who is interrogating him. First he wants to live, then he asks to die. Can all of his details be trusted? Have they confirmed his tale of killing the fishermen and beheading the skipper, etc? All these questions and more will possible get answers as long as someone doesn't slip up and let a Jack Ruby in to get our Pakistani Oswald.

328 FrogMarch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:15:13pm

re: #319 Militant-Infidel

You mean like touring Pakistan as an Indonesian student?

MI

We (the US) let in all sorts of Islamic men (who are more than likely pretending to be something else) to go to school. and then they disappear.

329 notutopia  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:15:29pm

re: #278 Wendya

[Link: foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com...]

Wendya, Here is an Opinion by FOX News

Read the whole thing... this is an exerpt

Mumbai was a stunningly murderous public relations gesture to show the target’s impotence and Al Qaeda’s ubiquity. And the perpetrator is almost certainly either Al Qaeda or an Al Qaeda-inspired and/or directed and/or franchised operation.

330 displaced yankee  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:15:59pm

re: #152 SurferDoc Iagree, but remember the stink caused when the south Vietnamese summarily executed the NVA/VC dressed in civilian clothes during Tet? An overt violation of the laws of war and one that sanctioned a summary execution.
As soon as something like that happens here (or there) the ACLU, CAIR, etc., will be screaming racism/islamophobia/pick one and the Left will chime in.

331 Silvergirl  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:18:53pm

re: #326 Paul

It seems to me that ten men armed with eight grenades apiece and AK-47s with six or seven magazines couldn't create so much chaos over two and a half days. I think there may have been more terrorists involved or perhaps there were caches of weapons and ammunition stashed ahead of time.

I don't know about that. It's amazing what a few weapons and a lot of hatred can accomplish.

332 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:20:03pm

re: #331 Silvergirl

I don't know about that. It's amazing what a few weapons and a lot of hatred can accomplish.

This things can only go so far- a complete refusal to see the writing, along with the blood, on the wall make this a war against apathy as much as it is against evil. . .

333 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:21:31pm

Sadly, it appears that this thread is going the way of the Dodo bird.

Does anyone want to discuss the implications (both global and domestic) of another armed conflict between India and Pakistan. None has occurred since they both tested (showed off) nuclear weapons. During the Cold War, an effort was made to keep some distance between the forces and if fighting needed to be done, it was done through proxies. The "hot" zones such as Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan always had an intermediary to prevent direct contact.

I anticipate both sides will reinforce their border and any mistake will be disastrous. Does anyone know, or have direct contact with somebody who does, if either side (or both) is itching for a fight?

MI

334 Silvergirl  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:24:34pm

re: #323 Promethea

Naw, he's "cool." I personally think he's too narcisstic to worry about what happens to other people. He'll probably just make a nice speech.

You mean you didn't read about his newly developed facial tic? A spasm under his right eye--stress induced.

335 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:25:22pm

re: #328 FrogMarch

We (the US) let in all sorts of Islamic men (who are more than likely pretending to be something else) to go to school. and then they disappear.

You missed the sarcasm (my fault for not being explicit). I was referring to our Presumptive President Elect's self discovery tour at age 20. You know, when it was illegal to go to Pakistan on a US passport, so he conveniently used his Indonesian one.

MI

336 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:25:45pm
The bullet in his hand was removed, and after his condition had stabilised, Azam was moved to another location on Thursday for more interrogation. Reports, however, say that the grilling at the hospital had been so intense that at one point, he pleaded with the police and medical staff to kill him. He said: “Now, I don’t want to live.”

That guy puts a canary to shame. Kudos to the Indian government who sweated the information out of the terrorist. Our liberals would be talking of filing indictments on anyone who would dare question a terrorist like the Indians do.

337 opinionated  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:30:56pm

'Indian commandos may have killed some Chabad hostages'

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

338 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:35:43pm

re: #337 opinionated

'Indian commandos may have killed some Chabad hostages'

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Yeah, right

339 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:36:28pm

re: #335 Militant-Infidel

You missed the sarcasm (my fault for not being explicit). I was referring to our Presumptive President Elect's self discovery tour at age 20. You know, when it was illegal to go to Pakistan on a US passport, so he conveniently used his Indonesian one.

MI

Yeah, and so began the voyage of making things up as you go. . .he learned well. . .

340 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:38:13pm

re: #336 Perplexed

That guy puts a canary to shame. Kudos to the Indian government who sweated the information out of the terrorist. Our liberals would be talking of filing indictments on anyone who would dare question a terrorist like the Indians do.

Again, this is a prime example of the frank ignorance/stupidity of the media. Unless they were shooting BB's, there is no way a bullet was lodged in his hand (barring some rare occurrence like a ricochet or secondary impact). Maybe a fragment or a broken bone, but certainly not a bullet. I have seen way too many bullet wounds to know that 1" of flesh isn't going to stop it. He probably had a wound, which was cleaned and bandaged, but hey, they are just journalists, right.

MI

341 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:40:09pm

re: #340 Militant-Infidel

Again, this is a prime example of the frank ignorance/stupidity of the media. Unless they were shooting BB's, there is no way a bullet was lodged in his hand (barring some rare occurrence like a ricochet or secondary impact). Maybe a fragment or a broken bone, but certainly not a bullet. I have seen way too many bullet wounds to know that 1" of flesh isn't going to stop it. He probably had a wound, which was cleaned and bandaged, but hey, they are just journalists, right.

MI

Maybe his automatic revolver misfired

342 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:40:40pm

re: #341 DisturbedEma

Maybe his automatic revolver misfired

///

343 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:41:56pm

re: #333 Militant-Infidel

Sadly, it appears that this thread is going the way of the Dodo bird.

Does anyone want to discuss the implications (both global and domestic) of another armed conflict between India and Pakistan. None has occurred since they both tested (showed off) nuclear weapons. During the Cold War, an effort was made to keep some distance between the forces and if fighting needed to be done, it was done through proxies. The "hot" zones such as Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan always had an intermediary to prevent direct contact.

I anticipate both sides will reinforce their border and any mistake will be disastrous. Does anyone know, or have direct contact with somebody who does, if either side (or both) is itching for a fight?

MI

Sure, let's start with the mess that a "parity" postion on nukes gives us. . .vis a vis Iran and Israel. . .gag. . .

344 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:45:06pm

re: #341 DisturbedEma

Maybe his automatic revolver misfired

Good Point, those things are probably dangerous.

MI

345 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:46:24pm

re: #342 DisturbedEma

///

Not to worry, I see sarcasm everywhere, sometimes when it is not intended. Few people accuse me of "concrete" thinking patterns.

MI

346 pittrader1988  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:49:11pm

chronicle of the religion of peace

[Link: www.thereligionofpeace.com...]

347 [deleted]  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:50:25pm
348 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:51:11pm

re: #343 DisturbedEma

Sure, let's start with the mess that a "parity" postion on nukes gives us. . .vis a vis Iran and Israel. . .gag. . .

About Israel's undeclared nuclear arsenal (about 200 warheads IIRC), almost assuredly they are plutonium based. Weapons designed with plutonium are usually tested (hence the Trinity test) since they are somewhat difficult to make go BANG. Has Israel ever tested their warheads? I don't think it is something that could be done unnoticed in the ME. Perhaps they test their (or our) design when they were working closely with South Africa.

Any ideas?

MI

349 NYCHardhat  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:53:01pm

re: #323 Promethea

Naw, he's "cool." I personally think he's too narcisstic to worry about what happens to other people. He'll probably just make a nice speech.

Definitely. We elected a politician that is "cool."
*barf*

350 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:53:12pm

re: #348 Militant-Infidel

About Israel's undeclared nuclear arsenal (about 200 warheads IIRC), almost assuredly they are plutonium based. Weapons designed with plutonium are usually tested (hence the Trinity test) since they are somewhat difficult to make go BANG. Has Israel ever tested their warheads? I don't think it is something that could be done unnoticed in the ME. Perhaps they test their (or our) design when they were working closely with South Africa.

Any ideas?

MI

I can only guess. . .I think that the have them, they are ready, and they will not hesitate to take out Iran's nukes if they sense, rightly so in my opinion, the the new world disorder in the US, is hanging them out to dry.

351 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:54:05pm

re: #349 NYCHardhat

Definitely. We elected a politician that is "cool."
*barf*

Yeah- umm er ummm we should show restraint. . um go to the UN and let THEM handle it. . .pass the waffles

352 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:57:44pm

re: #347 Iron Fist

Parity doesn't help if the Enemy doesn't think you'll use your weapons. I don't see as how an enemy wouldn't think they can strike without retaliation, especially under an Obama Administration.

This argument about nuclear parity is absurd to the core. Ask any clear headed individual what they think the likelihood is of Israel (or the US) using their nuclear arsenal. You would have to create quite an argument to come up with a positive response.

Now do the same with Iran.

Oh, I see the problem with my argument, it is that there are so few "clear headed" individuals...

MI

353 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 3:59:07pm

re: #352 Militant-Infidel

This argument about nuclear parity is absurd to the core. Ask any clear headed individual what they think the likelihood is of Israel (or the US) using their nuclear arsenal. You would have to create quite an argument to come up with a positive response.

Now do the same with Iran.

Oh, I see the problem with my argument, it is that there are so few "clear headed" individuals...

MI

What, you mean not EVERYONE wants to just get along? Heavens. . .next you will be saying that Iran is using its nukes for something OTHER than energy. . .sheesh

///

354 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:00:03pm

re: #352 Militant-Infidel

This argument about nuclear parity is absurd to the core. Ask any clear headed individual what they think the likelihood is of Israel (or the US) using their nuclear arsenal. You would have to create quite an argument to come up with a positive response.

Now do the same with Iran.

Oh, I see the problem with my argument, it is that there are so few "clear headed" individuals...

MI

All /// aside, the assumtion of ideological parity is almost as laughable as the concept that anti Zionism is not antisemitism. . .

355 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:00:41pm

re: #353 DisturbedEma

What, you mean not EVERYONE wants to just get along? Heavens. . .next you will be saying that Iran is using its nukes for something OTHER than energy. . .sheesh

///

Ema:

I was just summoned to dinner, back in a bit.

MI

356 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:04:17pm

re: #355 Militant-Infidel

Ema:

I was just summoned to dinner, back in a bit.

MI

Have a good one

357 Momzilla  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:20:44pm

re: #340 Militant-Infidel

He probably had a wound, which was cleaned and bandaged, but hey, they are just journalists, right.

MI


Hope they cleaned it with rubbing alcohol.

358 avspatti  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:25:22pm

re: #340 Militant-Infidel

Again, this is a prime example of the frank ignorance/stupidity of the media. Unless they were shooting BB's, there is no way a bullet was lodged in his hand (barring some rare occurrence like a ricochet or secondary impact). Maybe a fragment or a broken bone, but certainly not a bullet. I have seen way too many bullet wounds to know that 1" of flesh isn't going to stop it. He probably had a wound, which was cleaned and bandaged, but hey, they are just journalists, right.

MI

Who in the media is not all afraid of guns? They certainly don't have any.

359 avspatti  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:27:15pm

re: #323 Promethea

Naw, he's "cool." I personally think he's too narcisstic to worry about what happens to other people. He'll probably just make a nice speech.

Oh, I don't know about that. I just read on some MSM news site that O admitted he was having trouble sleeping. Can we say 'in over his head'?

360 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:30:27pm

re: #356 DisturbedEma

Have a good one

My wife (she told me not to "out" her) was on another thread and sneaked out to make dinner, but I'mmm Baaack.

Now about Israel, I am constantly amazed at the cognitive dissonance of people. For example, they argue that the Israelis should not get upset at the Palestinians sending rockets over. I always ask them what we would do if Mexico was sending rockets into Texas. I usually get this blank stare and hear the soft grind of gears.

MI

361 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:34:00pm

re: #357 Momzilla

Hope they cleaned it with rubbing alcohol.

As I said in another thread (I don't remember which), there are far better ways of "chemical interrogation".

MI

362 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:39:45pm

re: #348 Militant-Infidel

About Israel's undeclared nuclear arsenal (about 200 warheads IIRC), almost assuredly they are plutonium based. Weapons designed with plutonium are usually tested (hence the Trinity test) since they are somewhat difficult to make go BANG. Has Israel ever tested their warheads? I don't think it is something that could be done unnoticed in the ME. Perhaps they test their (or our) design when they were working closely with South Africa.

Any ideas?

MI

My money is on some underground tests in South Africa.

363 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:50:40pm

re: #362 Perplexed

My money is on some underground tests in South Africa.

As is mine. The trigger part is difficult for plutonium, just ask the NoKo's. But once you have a good tested design, it can be easily scaled to the desired yield.

Now U235 is a different matter. This why I am so concerned about the NIE regarding Iran. The public doesn't appreciate that uranium enrichment and missile development is the hard part. Warhead design for uranium is easy, particularly if you aren't really concerned with yield and radioactive contamination. For our CIA to say that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program simply because they can't find evidence for warhead design is ludicrous, but in their eyes, it takes all three.

MI

364 displaced yankee  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:53:58pm

re: #338 DisturbedEma Appears to me to be more of the MSM's Monday morning hindsight. Before the event, nothing. during the event, why wasn't it detected/prevented/stopped? After the event, accusations on everyone even remotley related to the issue, e.g., why didn't the commandos stop and id the bad guys before they shot? why wasn't the threat acted on? what took them solong?, etc..
Of course, if they did these things, the MSM would scream about waste of taxes, loss of personal liberty, etc..
see you after the next disaster.

365 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:54:17pm

re: #362 Perplexed

My money is on some underground tests in South Africa.

I wonder if their is geologic evidence for unexpected tectonic activity in southern Africa during the 50's.

MI

366 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:56:45pm

re: #365 Militant-Infidel

I wonder if their is geologic evidence for unexpected tectonic activity in southern Africa during the 50's.

MI

their = there PIMF
MI

367 GrammatonCleric  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 4:57:14pm

Mumbai terrorists were 'funded by cash raised in UK mosques'
30th November 2008

A banned Islamic terrorist group funded with cash raised in British mosques is believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks.

Kashmiri separatists Lashkar-e-Taiba, ‘The Army of the Righteous’, which has strong links to Al Qaeda, is accused of previous terrorist outrages in India.

And intercepted telephone and radio communications before and during the latest attacks apparently suggest a link.

Indian officials say at least one of the gunmen captured after the attacks is part of a Lashkar network.

The group last week denied any responsibility and the unknown group Deccan Mujahideen said it was behind the atrocity.

But earlier this year another group, the Indian Mujahideen, which has links to Lashkar-e-Taiba, sent an email to Indian police warning it was planning an attack in Mumbai.

The message read: ‘We are keeping a close eye on you and just waiting for the right time to execute your bloodshed...Let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai...You are already on our hit list and this time very, very seriously.’

Lashkar-e-Taiba has been blamed for violence throughout India, including the 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and a strike at an amusement park in Hyderabad in 2007.

It is accused of being behind a series of train bombings in Mumbai in 2006, which claimed almost 200 lives.

The group is outlawed in Britain and the US.
In 2006, a Coventry man was sentenced to nine years in jail for conspiring to provide funds for its terrorist activities.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

368 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:02:33pm

re: #367 GrammatonCleric

Mumbai terrorists were 'funded by cash raised in UK mosques'
30th November 2008

A banned Islamic terrorist group funded with cash raised in British mosques is believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks.

Kashmiri separatists Lashkar-e-Taiba, ‘The Army of the Righteous’, which has strong links to Al Qaeda, is accused of previous terrorist outrages in India.

And intercepted telephone and radio communications before and during the latest attacks apparently suggest a link.

Indian officials say at least one of the gunmen captured after the attacks is part of a Lashkar network.

The group last week denied any responsibility and the unknown group Deccan Mujahideen said it was behind the atrocity.

But earlier this year another group, the Indian Mujahideen, which has links to Lashkar-e-Taiba, sent an email to Indian police warning it was planning an attack in Mumbai.

The message read: ‘We are keeping a close eye on you and just waiting for the right time to execute your bloodshed...Let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai...You are already on our hit list and this time very, very seriously.’

Lashkar-e-Taiba has been blamed for violence throughout India, including the 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and a strike at an amusement park in Hyderabad in 2007.

It is accused of being behind a series of train bombings in Mumbai in 2006, which claimed almost 200 lives.

The group is outlawed in Britain and the US.
In 2006, a Coventry man was sentenced to nine years in jail for conspiring to provide funds for its terrorist activities.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]


C'mon. . .they are just misunderstood and taken out of context sheesh

///

369 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:03:07pm

re: #367 GrammatonCleric

This raises another issue with respect to cognitive dissonance as I mentioned earlier. I don't claim to understand the Indian psyche, but I do work with several Indian contract RN's. Every time I ask them about some atrocity in India, they were either unaware or just shrugged their shoulders and said "that is just the terrorists, it happens all the time". Are the Indian people really that fatalistic? Are there any Indian lizards who would like to shed some light?

MI

370 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:03:42pm

re: #364 displaced yankee

Appears to me to be more of the MSM's Monday morning hindsight. Before the event, nothing. during the event, why wasn't it detected/prevented/stopped? After the event, accusations on everyone even remotley related to the issue, e.g., why didn't the commandos stop and id the bad guys before they shot? why wasn't the threat acted on? what took them solong?, etc..
Of course, if they did these things, the MSM would scream about waste of taxes, loss of personal liberty, etc..
see you after the next disaster.

And with the mindset thst is now in place there will be another, and another and another

371 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:04:56pm

re: #368 DisturbedEma

C'mon. . .they are just misunderstood and taken out of context sheesh

///

Welcome back Ema. The echo chamber was down to just a few folks.

MI

372 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:05:14pm

re: #369 Militant-Infidel

This raises another issue with respect to cognitive dissonance as I mentioned earlier. I don't claim to understand the Indian psyche, but I do work with several Indian contract RN's. Every time I ask them about some atrocity in India, they were either unaware or just shrugged their shoulders and said "that is just the terrorists, it happens all the time". Are the Indian people really that fatalistic? Are there any Indian lizards who would like to shed some light?

MI

I think, based on my research, that for many in India terrorism is something that happens in remote areas between 2 groups that have nothing to do with the whole country-

This may just end that mindset. . .

373 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:05:39pm

re: #371 Militant-Infidel

Welcome back Ema. The echo chamber was down to just a few folks.

MI

:) yeah, noises on. . .

374 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:09:40pm

re: #372 DisturbedEma

I think, based on my research, that for many in India terrorism is something that happens in remote areas between 2 groups that have nothing to do with the whole country-

This may just end that mindset. . .

I would have thought that the New Delhi attack would have steeled some resolve or at least straightened a few backs. Maybe it is just the mindset of us "cowboys" in the US that this type of Shiite doesn't go unpunished.

MI

375 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:10:50pm

re: #373 DisturbedEma

:) yeah, noises on. . .

Thank you, no. I was suffering with tinnitus for while earlier this year :)

MI

376 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:12:37pm

re: #374 Militant-Infidel

I would have thought that the New Delhi attack would have steeled some resolve or at least straightened a few backs. Maybe it is just the mindset of us "cowboys" in the US that this type of Shiite doesn't go unpunished.

MI

Without any real and sustained belief in a connection, it was back to "isolated incident" status. . .sadly this attack may go that way as well. . .head in the sand is so much easier sometimes.

The wild card, believe it or not, is nobama. With is public statements about Pakistan, the Indians could very well press their cause and maybe their aid in some sort of operation with the US.

it maybecome interesting. . .in a highway to hell kind of way. . .

377 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:12:58pm

re: #375 Militant-Infidel

Thank you, no. I was suffering with tinnitus for while earlier this year :)

MI

:) glad to help. . .

378 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:14:19pm

re: #372 DisturbedEma

I think, based on my research, that for many in India terrorism is something that happens in remote areas between 2 groups that have nothing to do with the whole country-

This may just end that mindset. . .

On the other hand, the Indians I work with are Christian. Maybe that could explain their indifference. Not saying Christian's are indifferent, just that the friction seems to be between Hindus and Muslims in India.

MI

379 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:16:31pm

re: #376 DisturbedEma

Without any real and sustained belief in a connection, it was back to "isolated incident" status. . .sadly this attack may go that way as well. . .head in the sand is so much easier sometimes.

The wild card, believe it or not, is nobama. With is public statements about Pakistan, the Indians could very well press their cause and maybe their aid in some sort of operation with the US.

it maybecome interesting. . .in a highway to hell kind of way. . .

Old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times.

MI

380 Biff  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:17:19pm

I want to hear one of our political leaders say just that.

re: #210 zombie

Extreme Islam is basically an organized cult of sociopathic serial killers.
381 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:17:37pm

re: #378 Militant-Infidel

On the other hand, the Indians I work with are Christian. Maybe that could explain their indifference. Not saying Christian's are indifferent, just that the friction seems to be between Hindus and Muslims in India.

MI

Right, could be, bt even among the Hindus, and to some extent the Muslims, there is this idea of 'well, they did this, and then we did that, and it is all over now. . .an isolated event' because the violence against the majority by Muslims and the bigger picture was never part of the equation, somehow Indian violence by Muslims was somehow different than violence by Muslims in Israel and Britian. . .we will see what happens in the aftermath of this carnage. . .

382 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:18:30pm

re: #379 Militant-Infidel

Old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times.

MI

Word. . .for sure I could do with a bit less interesting and a lot more security. . .

383 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:19:45pm

re: #380 Biff

I want to hear one of our political leaders say just that.

That would be deemed insensitive and inflammatory. . .unlike the comments out of Iran about Israel. . .I mean the Zionist entity. . .

384 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:26:22pm

re: #382 DisturbedEma

Word. . .for sure I could do with a bit less interesting and a lot more security. . .

I am as comfortable as possible with me and my wife's personal security, we can take of ourselves. National security is soon going to be in the hands of a neophyte. I don't think the bating average is going stay 1000 since 9/11 for too much longer. The soft targets in this country are simply too numerous. The carnage will hopefully be limited, but the butcher's bill is still going to be high.

MI

385 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:32:11pm

re: #363 Militant-Infidel

As is mine. The trigger part is difficult for plutonium, just ask the NoKo's. But once you have a good tested design, it can be easily scaled to the desired yield.

Now U235 is a different matter. This why I am so concerned about the NIE regarding Iran. The public doesn't appreciate that uranium enrichment and missile development is the hard part. Warhead design for uranium is easy, particularly if you aren't really concerned with yield and radioactive contamination. For our CIA to say that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program simply because they can't find evidence for warhead design is ludicrous, but in their eyes, it takes all three.

MI

Once worked with a guy who described the nuke in a tube. A couple shaped charges to drive non critical masses of U235 into each other. Asked him about how critical it was as far as machining and his comment was not too critical. The implosion design is much more critical. He did go on to say that the nuke in a tube design is inefficient and has a very low yield.

386 RoughRider  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:32:40pm

Has The Office of the President Elect sent flowers and a Get Well Soon card yet?

387 Ledger1  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:36:42pm

Here is Pakistan’s most likely next move:

The Pakistanis will officially deny every thing and call it a lie. Next, they will hire MSM shills like the NYT to write puff-pieces to buttress their assertion of innocence. Soon, the airwaves will be blanket with paid for MSM explanations of why the Pakistanis were not involved.

Although the MSM will try to shield the Muslims this should not stop Israel from taking punitive action.

Mumbai Terrorists Tortured Israelis Before They Were Murdered

[Picture of blood smeared floor]

The floors were smeared with blood after the terrorist assault on the Chabad House in Mumbai. (Ynet)

...Asked specifically if he was talking of torture marks, he said: "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood," one doctor said.

The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.

Terrorists Tortured Israelis Before They Were Murdered

388 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:52:27pm

re: #385 Perplexed

Once worked with a guy who described the nuke in a tube. A couple shaped charges to drive non critical masses of U235 into each other. Asked him about how critical it was as far as machining and his comment was not too critical. The implosion design is much more critical. He did go on to say that the nuke in a tube design is inefficient and has a very low yield.

The problem with linear collision is the concept of pre-detonation. As the two sub critical masses collide, fission occurs at the boundary, and blows the thing apart. The heavier the masses are and the velocity of impact will determine how efficient the fission reaction is. From a military perspective, efficiency is important because U235 is hard to obtain and more efficiency = bigger BOOM. From a terrorists perspective, while an inefficient explosion may not be quite as powerful, it does contaminate the area with highly radioactive debris. Not necessarily a bad thing from that perspective.

MI

389 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 5:59:50pm

re: #386 RoughRider

Has The Office of the President Elect sent flowers and a Get Well Soon card yet?

I expect the honeymoon period will be extremely contentious and short with regard to international affairs. Now, on the other hand, I expect the MSM to donning the knee pads and rubber gloves for quite awhile.

MI

390 Militant-Infidel  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:01:44pm

re: #389 Militant-Infidel

I expect the honeymoon period will be extremely contentious and short with regard to international affairs. Now, on the other hand, I expect the MSM to be donning the knee pads and rubber gloves for quite awhile.

MI

Reminder to self, click preview. PIMF

MI

391 J.S.  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:13:16pm

hmm...this sequence of events does, of course, contradict other statements with respect to "sequence of events."

Thus, one reads that the fishermen (the ones who first noted the suspicious fellows) did, in fact, contact the police -- but this notification occurred one week prior to the beginning of the shoot-out...suggesting that there were safe houses in Mumbai...where the terrorists (disembarking from the boats) refreshed and readied themselves...

392 Syrah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:17:10pm

re: #30 lawhawk

Meanwhile, the Times of India is reporting that a Russian expert is saying that the training and tactics appears consistent with US intel op training conducted in Pakistan prior to Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan. Seems that the Russians want to try and push that meme to undermine closer US/India ties, and make an already dangerous situation even more unstable.

The Russians are strangely eager to stir up some shit.

Its like they think they can get away with it now.

I wonder why?

///

393 J.S.  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:23:27pm

re: #392 Syrah

Actually, with respect to "training" -- well, quite frankly, why would anyone rule out Britain? For all anyone knows, at least some of the terrorists could have been trained in the UK...and unless this possibility is explicitly ruled out, I remain open to that prospect...

394 mcnorman  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:48:42pm

Coward, he should not be afraid of dying.

395 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:50:53pm

re: #223 traderjoe9

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there has been a SINGLE Muslim demonstration speaking out against radical Muslims.

But there have been anti-West demonstrations by Muslims all throughout the world...

The future...

Seeing that makes me wish for one of these.

396 Syrah  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 6:52:34pm

re: #393 J.S.

Actually, with respect to "training" -- well, quite frankly, why would anyone rule out Britain? For all anyone knows, at least some of the terrorists could have been trained in the UK...and unless this possibility is explicitly ruled out, I remain open to that prospect...

What the Russians are trying to do is to sow discontent and strife amongst their western rivals.

Could these young men have been trained by British or American "Intel Ops" agencies? I say that would be very doubtful. They are too young to have been trained prior to when the Russians were routed out of Afghanistan, as the Russians suggest. They may have been trained by second or third generation Mujihadeen that fought against the Russians. That is possible.

I think that if they were western trained, weather in Britain, The States, or any other Eruopean nation, that fact would have come to light when their names were made public.

397 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:00:48pm

re: #394 mcnorman

Coward, he should not be afraid of dying.

He should be very afraid of dying and meeting his creator (which isn't allah). He's got a lot to answer for in his miserable existence.

398 Perplexed  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:03:12pm

re: #389 Militant-Infidel

I expect the honeymoon period will be extremely contentious and short with regard to international affairs. Now, on the other hand, I expect the MSM to donning the knee pads and rubber gloves for quite awhile.

MI

Obama has already developed a nervous tic and this is before he's taken office. This doesn't look very promising for the American public.

399 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:09:34pm

re: #300 notutopia

I inquired yesterday about his rifle. Look at the pix again. Does it look like a 50 round mag? (45+/-) Doesn't to me. But, they could be Russian AK's and they use 50 rounders. Though I don't think the mags in the photo are long enough.
The ballistic reports will let us know the ammo origins. The casings are clearly brass from the pix.

So they had AK-47s and handguns. That's all that really matters. No point in over-analyzing what is very likely to be a faulty report by the MSM, anyway. All we really need to know is that the jihadis had enough weaponry to do the job they set for themselves.

This whole debate is kind of like obsessing about whether Teddy Kennedy's Oldsmobile had bias-ply tires or radials on it when he drove it into the drink.

400 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:13:32pm

re: #399 Alberta Oil Peon

So they had AK-47s and handguns. That's all that really matters. No point in over-analyzing what is very likely to be a faulty report by the MSM, anyway. All we really need to know is that the jihadis had enough weaponry to do the job they set for themselves.

This whole debate is kind of like obsessing about whether Teddy Kennedy's Oldsmobile had bias-ply tires or radials on it when he drove it into the drink.


Some people focus on those details. The enemy's weapons often help to determine the proper tactics to use against them.

401 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:19:27pm

re: #365 Militant-Infidel

I wonder if their is geologic evidence for unexpected tectonic activity in southern Africa during the 50's.

MI

I seem to remember some speculation that there were unexpected flashes seen in the sky over remote southern reaches of the Indian Ocean in the 1970s. Could be that Israel and South Africa were cooperating on weapons design, and fired some atmospheric shots in an out-of-the-way place, back when satellite observation was less rigorous than it is now. No seismic signature from an atmospheric shot, eh?

402 cracker-crusader  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:22:26pm

Declear the Crudase!

But seriously, if Islam doesn't wake the fuck up and do some serious soul-searching, then maybe not this year, nor this decade, nor even this century, but in the not-too-distant future, some alliance of perhaps Chinese-Indian proportions is going to wipe the Islamic sphere form the map, possibly in an incredible genocide of Biblical proportions. Seriously, 5 billion non-Muslims are starting to get seriously pissed off, and someday some population somewhere is going to answer the call-out, and defy the Muslims and their God to ante-up, or die.

So my advice to both the Sasquatch, and the "moderate Muslim" is :

"Get busy denouncing the shit these maggots constantly do in your name, because the Armies of oblivion are gathering ..."

403 Silvergirl  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:23:04pm

re: #223 traderjoe9

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there has been a SINGLE Muslim demonstration speaking out against radical Muslims.

But there have been anti-West demonstrations by Muslims all throughout the world...

The future...


---

It depends what you mean by demonstration.

Muslims Condemn Mumbai Attacks

Statements were made, such as, "Anyone who slaughters people and screams `Allahu Akbar' (God is Great) is sick and ignorant." --Kazim al-Muqdadi, a political science lecturer at Baghdad University

Saudi Arabia said in a statement carried earlier this week by the Saudi Press Agency that it "strongly condemns and denounces this criminal act." An editorial Friday in Saudi's English-language Arab News said that "no civilized person ... can be anything but revolted and sickened by the terrorist attacks in Mumbai."

Statements, but no demonstrations that I could find. As far as statements go, this one at least urges raising their voices, but what comes after the because is lame. Harming their image indeed. "I think that Muslims should raise their voice against such actions. They should forge a coalition to fight such phenomena, because it harms them and damages their image," said Ali Abdel Muhsen, 22, a Muslim engineering student in the West Bank city of Nablus.

404 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:24:49pm

re: #400 Dark_Falcon

Some people focus on those details. The enemy's weapons often help to determine the proper tactics to use against them.

Fair enough, if one has solid intelligence about the nature of the weapons used. This is the mainstream media we're talking about here.

I'm sure the Indian police and military intelligence people are duly studying the equipment used by these goblins, and perhaps, eventually, the real details will come out. Right now, though, either the Indian and world media are either making their usual hash of any technical information, or are being deliberately fed disinformation by the Indian authorities so as to leave the jihadis guessing about how much they really know.

405 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:42:46pm

re: #189 GrammatonCleric

One of these times the terrorists will murder so many so horrifically that the rest of us will just rise up and take them all out.

406 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:45:37pm

re: #403 Silvergirl

OK words; let's see some action, a civil war among muslims with the decent ones winning.

407 Ojoe  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 7:47:56pm

re: #402 cracker-crusader

You have stated the obvious

Not that many see it yet

408 Red Ruffansore  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 8:20:33pm

Easy kids, the ObaMessiah is directing world affairs as we speak from the office of President elect. Pakistan has told India NOT to make any hasty decisions and you can bet no actions or words shall come from the Dali Bama until his healing words are required. It should be abundantly clear that the chosen one shall calm the waters, clear the skies and bring peace to man and beast alike on 01/20/09, it has been spoken. Just in case I'm wrong though and the guy turns out to be a complete marxist tool bent on bringing our country to it's knees before the world court...stock up on all things that matter. Hey, just a thought, maybe he is really the plastic dashboard baby Jesus sent to save us all. Heee hee.

409 viper123456  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 9:22:22pm

I'm really stunned that all the GOP senators and prominent politicians are siding with Pakistan on this. I guess once you've been on your knees for long on Pakistan, you don't know any other way. Hmmm...let's bet on a historically nasty little country with a violent history and a hand in countless terrorist attacks against Americans. Screw the world's largest democracy. Nice going GOP! I know understand how/why your idiocy led you to lose this election. Won't bet on you guys again.

410 Miss Molly  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 9:24:09pm

Mumbai gave us a glimce of the future and that future is not good.

411 nightwatch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 9:29:57pm

So...it...is,

This chess game of real life altering checks and poss. check-mates,
has serious nukes in the mix.(Just to add a somewhat OVERLOOKED aspect to all the bravado I've read in the last 400+ posts)

Get real people, stoke the Indies to frag on the Pakies and you get the Bollywood version of WWIII, and the IDF may think it high time to play their hand in Iran. Boy, would not want to be down-wind in the Straits
if this plays out...

412 nightwatch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 9:34:54pm

re: #405 Ojoe


Yes, the 2nd CRUSADES. This time, it is much more dangerous.
World Ending so...

413 morbiuswilters  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 9:43:57pm

re: #46 jcbunga

In times like these I find the Marine Corps Silent Drill Platoon very reassuring:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Thanks for posting that. I remember the Marines have an odd spot or two a few years ago (the Marine fighting the lava monster comes to mind) but this one was exceptionally well-done and brought a tear to my eye. We are extremely lucky to have a powerful, volunteer military full of honorable men and women willing to risk their lives to make the world safer for Americans and non-Americans alike.

414 grahamski  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:01:18pm

Very interesting...With the conformation that Pakistan is in the mix, the Zero has a real quandary on his hands.

415 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:04:19pm

re: #403 Silvergirl

---

It depends what you mean by demonstration.

Muslims Condemn Mumbai Attacks

Statements were made, such as, "Anyone who slaughters people and screams `Allahu Akbar' (God is Great) is sick and ignorant." --Kazim al-Muqdadi, a political science lecturer at Baghdad University

Saudi Arabia said in a statement carried earlier this week by the Saudi Press Agency that it "strongly condemns and denounces this criminal act." An editorial Friday in Saudi's English-language Arab News said that "no civilized person ... can be anything but revolted and sickened by the terrorist attacks in Mumbai."

Statements, but no demonstrations that I could find. As far as statements go, this one at least urges raising their voices, but what comes after the because is lame. Harming their image indeed. "I think that Muslims should raise their voice against such actions. They should forge a coalition to fight such phenomena, because it harms them and damages their image," said Ali Abdel Muhsen, 22, a Muslim engineering student in the West Bank city of Nablus.

This doesn't count. . .the reason for standing up against it is purely selfish and egotistical. . .

They do not give a shit about the dead- only how it "looks"

Weak ass shit, I expect a LOT better from the self proclaimed religion of peace

416 DisturbedEma  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:04:44pm

re: #414 grahamski

Very interesting...With the conformation that Pakistan is in the mix, the Zero has a real quandary on his hands.

Yep- he is gonna have to choose

417 Nightwatch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:42:52pm

re: #409 viper123456
Steady Vip,

This Country has a LONG history of making deals with the lesser devil as an end to a means.
Remember the "French!" no less helped us kick the Brit's ass in defining this great nation. Did not Washington himself enlist a poser German to train up the troops at Valley Forge? (Or have I fallen victim to the re-inventing of history?) The bottom line either way, The USA just played it BETTER than anyone else! Maybe that's why we are so scorned on some fronts...WE just were better at the game!...;)

418 Nightwatch  Sun, Nov 30, 2008 10:49:04pm

re: #414 grahamski

I have watched his picks for the cab. posts. Moving to Center, or one hell of a head-fake! The Georgia run-off will tell which way the wind do blow.

Keep an eye to the south...;)

419 Macaroon  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 3:20:49am

re: #230 kenprice

A few comments: I'm certain India has typical British gun control, insuring that few, if any, private citizens own or carries a handgun. Try the same thing in many places in the USA and you'll be rapidly perforated.

You are correct. Gun ownership by regular citizens is outlawed here in India. Some people may have guns for sport shooting, but there is the usual red tape involved.

BTW - I am currently living in Bangalore on a field assignment.

420 Macaroon  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 3:35:41am

re: #288 Edward Halper

Perhaps it's too obvious to mention: the MSM have been tripping over themselves to deny that this was anything like 9/11. Their so-called "experts" have tried to tie this attack to disaffected Indian Muslims and even cast doubt whether Muslims were behind it at all. They seem to be assuming that radical Islam will not threaten us if we don't call it by its name.

People in India are very much aware of who was behind this attack and why. And they are very angry about it.

This is a prime opportunity for the Opposition Party to gain some seats, and perhaps control over the government.

421 Ron Shaw  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:49am

re: #288 Edward Halper

Perhaps it's too obvious to mention: the MSM have been tripping over themselves to deny that this was anything like 9/11. Their so-called "experts" have tried to tie this attack to disaffected Indian Muslims and even cast doubt whether Muslims were behind it at all. They seem to be assuming that radical Islam will not threaten us if we don't call it by its name.

Same old dance to the same old song in the same old shoes by the MSM. The facts known that the 10 murdering assholes just happened to be Muslim and were targeting non-Muslims with emphasis on slaughtering whites, Americans, Brits, Jews and other non-Muslim looking, acting folk as well as beheading a captain of a trawler when they have copious amounts of ammunition and guns means nada, zip, zilch, zero to the MSM in America because...the ilk that is the MSM in America continues to disregard facts in their reporting if those facts do not promote their shared agenda with the Obama voters they represent. Yes, it is all related. With no doubt whatsoever those who have catapulted bHo into Air One status, will agree with whatever the MSM tells them to agree with or against and the MSM is a huge part of the 'they' of which I speak.
Hell, a reasonable person would have connected the Jihad dot at the beheading...who else besides radical Muslims beheads innocent people in the universe when a one or two tap to the head with an AK47 would have done the despicable job?
Boycott the MSM. Today, the MSM is an enabling, evil enemy which you and I pay hard earned money to directly and indirectly. It shames me to say and know so.

422 Ron Shaw  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:01:55am

Saw this story on the net from the South Wales Echo:

‘We thought we were safe... then CNN stepped in!’
Nov 29 2008 South Wales Echo

A SOUTH Wales couple caught in the Mumbai terror attacks claimed last night that CNN put their lives at risk by broadcasting where they were.

Lynne and Kenneth Shaw, of Penarth, warned that terrorists were listening in to the media to pinpoint Western victims.

Mrs Shaw claimed the American cable TV channel had broadcast details of where they were at the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel.

She has appealed to the media to be careful with the information it broadcasts because safety could be compromised and lives lost.

The couple flew back into Heathrow yesterday morning on a flight arranged by the British Consulate.

Mrs Shaw had been forced to hide under a table as terrorists stormed the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel.

She and her husband were later rescued by Gurkhas and taken straight to the Australian Embassy for safety.

The couple were at the end of a month-long visit to India and were staying in Mumbai for a few days before heading back to the UK.

From her home in Penarth yesterday, Mrs Shaw said: “We have been asked by the British terror police not to talk to the press.

“But the reason I would not want to talk to anyone is because our safety was actually compromised by CNN, which broadcast where we were.

“The terrorists were watching CNN and they came down from where they were in a lift after hearing about us on television. For that reason I would appeal to the media to be very careful about what they broadcast.

“When we left Mumbai there were still around 100 people trapped there.”

She added: “People talk to one another on mobile phones and that gets broadcast and the terrorists knew from that.”

A spokesman for CNN, said: “CNN has received no complaint from any individual regarding our coverage and their safety. We take such matters very seriously.

“We had CNN and Turner Broadcasting employees staying trapped at the Taj hotel during the attacks, and were vigilant about anything we broadcast that could compromise the safety of those inside.

“We are not aware of the allegedly compromising broadcast, but even in the absence of key details such as when and where, we will continue to check.”

423 Joan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:39:33am

re: #232 rightymouse

It's as though they were all raised to be sociopathic - without conscience.

Very good observation. Unfortunately, we've got our own bumper crop of sociopaths being spawned over here.

Some toxic combination of factors is at work. I can't avoid seeing the similarities between our disturbed school shooters and the same psychopathic glee on the hyena-lipped butchers of Mumbai.

Here, the poison cauldron might include: parental vanity and indulgence, malign neglect of character formation and education, total immersion in filth and gore produced by the greedheads in entertainment. Sadistic cheerleaders, hazing, you-tube revenge beatings, prom infanticides, "Tot Mom" sociopaths, on and on until one horror crowds aside the next in an accelerating parade of Neo-Caligulas. We have got a bad case of root-rot going on here.

424 Joan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:45:51am

re: #422 Ron Shaw

Usual media response: "We ask ourselves, 'Selves, have we done anything wrong here?' We answer, 'Nah.' Thank you for your communication."

425 Joan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:50:35am

re: #421 Ron Shaw

"MSM in America continues to disregard facts in their reporting if those facts do not promote their shared agenda." Yes. Beautifully concise. This is truth, and it is the very thing that defines the propagandist.


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