At least if it continues to be bad after Jan. 20, the media will quit breathlessly reporting on it.

So much for Hope and Change. I knew the market would do this if the one was elected. I wish I had been wrong.

And some music to fit the news;

She goes down, down, down

re: #1 Steve Rogers

At least if it continues to be bad after Jan. 20, the media will quit breathlessly reporting on it.

They will continue if they can blame it on Bush or conservatives. As time goes on however, I think it is going to become harder and harder to keep giving Barry the pass. Sooner or later, don;t you think the MSM will start in on him?

Maybe not.

There is no bottom until there is capitulation. Capitulation means everybody selling--- nobody buying. It will be ugly.

Buy low, sell high.

Don't panic.

So getting ready to buy, right?

re: #6 Racer X

And hang on to your towel.

I am waiting for my boss to tell me it is OK to buy Ford stock.

re: #6 Racer X

Buy low, sell high.

Don't panic.

Remain Calm!

Financial Crisis Watch

I think that watch is broken.

I keep telling myself, "This means that NEXT week's stock purchase will buy even more!"

Early OT, but as everyone is going rush over here, a good place to drop this.

I have posted this link to Mark Steyn's view on the Mumbai siege as I think it leads to final conclusion that most of us will agree with, except for that person who told me "fuck you".

Actually, there may be a silver lining in this cloud.

If things are like this or worse on Jan 20, Obama may find it difficult to get enough votes for any nasty tax increases. He's already tacitly admitted that tax increases are bad for the economy and I can't believe people like Larry Summers would be telling him they would be a good idea. If he tries for an increase and the market hasn't already priced one in, the market could take yet another dive which it might be difficult for many to say wasn't his fault.

It just gets interestinger and interestinger.

Getting back to the subject, I cannot help thinking that someone, somewhere, is playing this market like a violin, and making a shitload of money on the way. Sadly, where there are winners, there will be the losers.

It takes a while for a ball to stop bouncing up and down after you've dropped it from the 20th floor.

expect the same for several months

re: #15 eschew_obfuscation

It just gets interestinger and interestinger.

And for the losers, there is always the stinger.

Did Obama speak in public today?

re: #16 A Kiwi Infidel

Getting back to the subject, I cannot help thinking that someone, somewhere, is playing this market like a violin, and making a shitload of money on the way. Sadly, where there are winners, there will be the losers.

Actually,

I'm putting 10k into my Scottrade account after watching Ford /GM/ and Aig for 4 weeks.

If you caught the knife falling several times you would make a rather hefty gain on the several times they have done a 50-85 % increase in 1 or 2 days

Dont worry, I'm sure its only a matter of time before the treasury dept announces is going to sink $10 billion on inventing "ethical banking" robots to manage all financial transactions.

re: #2 CapeCoddah

So much for Hope and Change. I knew the market would do this if the one was elected. I wish I had been wrong.

Last week, the media was crediting Obama's cabinet appointments endlessly as the reason for the run-up.

So, should we expect the media to credit Obama's cabinet appointments for today's drop?

So did the No Banker Left Behind Act not work? Color me surprised (not).

re: #4 father_of_10

Sooner or later, don;t you think the MSM will start in on him?

I don't think they will...I think it will be the most dishonest reporting we have ever seen.

After the election, that's really saying a lot!

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

Did Obama speak in public today?

Yup. How could you tell?

///

obama did speak today. You dont think it is a omen do you?

So if Obama doesn't kill my business with taxes, he'll kill it with diving consumer confidence. People aren't shopping even when they have the exact same income and expenses as last July.

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

That's kinda' like the tree in the forest thing isn't it?

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dont worry, I'm sure its only a matter of time before the treasury dept announces is going to sink $10 billion on inventing "ethical banking" robots to manage all financial transactions.

"Robby the Investment Banker"

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

"Robby the Investment Banker"

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER. PUT YOUR MONEY INTO MUTUAL FUNDS!"

re: #5 chuckanut

There is no bottom until there is capitulation. Capitulation means everybody selling--- nobody buying. It will be ugly.

Well, it's impossible to sell without a buyer, so it's more correct to say "nobody buying at the current level", whatever that level is.

We've already have one capitulation sell-off, to 7500, so if we fall through that level with momentum, there will be another capitulation sell-off. It doesn't have to happen, though.

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER. PUT YOUR MONEY INTO MUTUAL FUNDS!"

You have to be kidding!

I think alot of consumers are in denial. Many people are still spending and charging as usual, and it's going to bite them. Someone told me that going into debt is a bet that your financial situation will get better, and saving is an bet that things will get worse. Funny how we're so afraid of pain that we'll do anything to delay it.

for your enjoyment

MONEY

re: #12 bosforus

I think that watch is broken.

But, it's still correct twice a day!

re: #22 DeafDog

Last week, the media was crediting Obama's cabinet appointments endlessly as the reason for the run-up.

So, should we expect the media to credit Obama's cabinet appointments for today's drop?

I shall not be holding my breath. (even though one does start breathing again after one passes out.)

re: #6 Racer X

Buy low, sell high.

Don't panic.

Ford?

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER. PUT YOUR MONEY INTO MUTUAL FUNDS!"

GGGgggark!

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

Did Obama speak in public today?

Yeah, to say the Hildabeast is a lock for Defense...hmmm..

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER. PUT YOUR MONEY INTO MUTUAL FUNDS!"

You are thinking of the wrong robot again. The Lost in Space robot was is a Model B-9, Class M-3 General Utility Non-Theorizing Environmental Control Robot, which had no given name.

Robby was in Forbidden Planet.

I am going to make a killing on my stock portfolio!

_{As long as I don't touch it until 2033.}

re: #20 Earth56

Actually,

I'm putting 10k into my Scottrade account after watching Ford /GM/ and Aig for 4 weeks.

If you caught the knife falling several times you would make a rather hefty gain on the several times they have done a 50-85 % increase in 1 or 2 days

Oh man. I wish I had that kinda dough to play the market with.

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ford?

Dent. Arthur Dent.

If the market goes up again in a few days, I propose we rename the bull and the bear to the Warner Brothers (and Sister).

Why?

"Boingy, boingy, boingy, boingy..."

(Couldn't find it in English, sorry)

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

You are thinking of the wrong robot again. The Lost in Space robot was is a Model B-9, Class M-3 General Utility Non-Theorizing Environmental Control Robot, which had no given name.

Robby was in Forbidden Planet.

Oh, they all look the same to me.

/wait for it

My what a perfectly splendid excuse for the dhimmicrats to ditch the capitalist system.Time to buckle up approaching.

Just got a note from my AmEx card today:
"Due to the challenging environment and the increasing costs of doing business, we are making several changes to our card products." They're basically increasing interest rates and fees. Meh, I was going to cancel that one anyway.

re: #38 A Kiwi Infidel

GGGgggark!

Ahhh... finally some sound investment advice!

re: #47 tackle

Just got a note from my AmEx card today:
"Due to the challenging environment and the increasing costs of doing business, we are making several changes to our card products." They're basically increasing interest rates and fees. Meh, I was going to cancel that one anyway.

Hey Bob, a lot of our customers are defaulting and we're losing money. I know! Let's raise rates and lose more customers. It just has to work.

Everyone pull down your pants and run around in circles! I call for panic!

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

You are thinking of the wrong robot again. The Lost in Space robot was is a Model B-9, Class M-3 General Utility Non-Theorizing Environmental Control Robot, which had no given name.

Robby was in Forbidden Planet.

Do you people have a life?
/washing the Cheetoh dust off keys now. :D

Waiting on the 1st of the year to dump some bonds which have matured and then I'll be completely out of debt with a nice chunk still in my savings.

According to all the reports I heard, Black Friday was a huge success, with a 10% INCREASE in sales over last year. So are the American people nuts, or what? Or maybe they just dont believe we are actually in a recession...or they think the Zero will pay off their debt?

re: #50 Occasional Reader

Everyone pull down your pants and run around in circles! I call for panic!

Do we hafta' run?

re: #47 tackle

Just got a note from my AmEx card today:
"Due to the challenging environment and the increasing costs of doing business, we are making several changes to our card products." They're basically increasing interest rates and fees. Meh, I was going to cancel that one anyway.

fUNNY,

I was thinking the same thing before it renews.

Why pay them $ 110 for the pleasure of using a plastic card ?

re: #47 tackle

Just got a note from my AmEx card today:
"Due to the challenging environment and the increasing costs of doing business, we are making several changes to our card products." They're basically increasing interest rates and fees. Meh, I was going to cancel that one anyway.

I cancelled our American Distress card 20 years ago. We have our bank Visa. If the money is not in there, we do not need it.

re: #54 MandyManners

Do we hafta' run?

ROFL

re: #50 Occasional Reader

Everyone pull down your pants and run around in circles! I call for panic!

We are at least several weeks past that. I think next comes "Search for the Guilty" followed by "Punishment of the Innocent" and then "Praise and Honors for the Uninvolved".

3 Wood always has the best in-depth perspectives on this stuff, but until the bad paper is flushed out of the system, the market will continue to sell off. Want to buy stock in a bank that owns $300 million in bad paper that they're refusing to write off because "mark to market" has been relaxed, and the government might bail them out in a couple of years? I didn't think so!

Until they figure out that no one trusts them or the government, this market is heading south. Once they figure it out, they'll write off the bad paper, some banks will fail as a consequence, and people will re-enter the market, and begin buying.

There probably are some buying opportunities already.

re: #54 MandyManners

Do we hafta' run?

There's probably a Wii program for it, if you want.

re: #50 Occasional Reader

Everyone pull down your pants and run around in circles! I call for panic!

When in deadly danger,
when beset by doubt,
run in little circles,
wave your arms and shout.

re: #39 CapeCoddah

Yeah, to say the Hildabeast is a lock for Defense...hmmm..

You mean Sexratary of State.

re: #57 Wishing

ROFL

Well, it's rather cold here so running might make some things a bit airish.

I live an a sort of touristy area and the people shopping and eating out was more noticeble this week than last month I keep saying where dose everyone get the money to spend if the country is hurtting so bad and we are just one pay check from soup lines.

re: #60 Occasional Reader

There's probably a Wii program for it, if you want.

A Wii program that pulls down your pants?

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

You are thinking of the wrong robot again. The Lost in Space robot was is a Model B-9, Class M-3 General Utility Non-Theorizing Environmental Control Robot, which had no given name.

Robby was in Forbidden Planet.

Correct!

re: #62 Truck Monkey

You mean Sexratary of State.

Yeah, that!

re: #51 Soona'

Do you people have a life?
/washing the Cheetoh dust off keys now. :D

Excuse me, but there is a robot prejudice, widespread in our culture, and I would think that we could at least try to get the names straight of our fellow robot actors.

re: #65 MandyManners

A Wii program that pulls down your pants?

Danger, Will Robinson!

Hope and Change

re: #64 cookies mom

I live an a sort of touristy area and the people shopping and eating out was more noticeble this week than last month I keep saying where dose everyone get the money to spend if the country is hurtting so bad and we are just one pay check from soup lines.

Are they using credit cards or debit cards?

re: #65 MandyManners

A Wii program that pulls down your pants?

Oh, I have got to get that!

re: #50 Occasional Reader

I'll run in circles, but do I have to pull down my pants?

re: #69 Occasional Reader

Danger, Will Robinson!

No. Danger Wii Robinson.

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

Excuse me, but there is a robot prejudice, widespread in our culture

What are you, spokesman for the Council on American-Robot Relations (CARR)?

re: #62 Truck Monkey

You mean Sexratary of State.

Now please. That's making me gag.

re: #72 Racer X

Oh, I have got to get that!

But, you can take PSP everywhere.

I must be rich to lose money like this.

A Wii program that pulls down your pants?

Guaranteed to break the ice at naughty parties.

I report no building design work in my one-man office.

The time line of that is no construction work a few months out.

re: #77 MandyManners

But, you can take PSP everywhere.

PSP?

Pulldown
Someone's
Pants?

re: #72 Racer X

re: #65 MandyManners

A Wii program that pulls down your pants?

Oh, I have got to get that!

I'd order the Adriana Lima version.

Hopefully they won't ship the John Madden one by mistake.

re: #78 lifeofthemind

I must be rich to lose money like this.

I work with the obscenely rich. They are terrified, and that has not happened since the depression.

re: #65 MandyManners

A Wii program that pulls down your pants?

That's one that I hadn't heard about yet. No wonder why my teenager spends so much time in his room.

re: #56 CapeCoddah

I cancelled our American Distress card 20 years ago. We have our bank Visa. If the money is not in there, we do not need it.

They're starting to piss me off. We have excellent credit, pay on time, and they want to make harder for me. We have them basically to earn SkyMiles, but we painfully discovered that it's almost impossible to redeem them, unless you want to fly to North Dakota in February.

I heard on FOX a little while ago that credit limits are going to be reduced on consumer credit cards. Well isn't that fucking nice. Unless I'm mistaken, that will automatically reduce your FICO score. Bastards!

re: #84 Iron Fist

Now that is a vile image. Please pass the brain bleach. And never, ever mention the Hildabeast's name in conjunction with sex again. Gah.

Seconded.

re: #71 MandyManners

Are they using credit cards or debit cards?

I don't know, but Hannity was reading a report on "Black Friday" retail sales, and he said that retail was up 7% from last year.

re: #51 Soona'

Robby could make whiskey.

re: #75 Occasional Reader

What are you, spokesman for the Council on American-Robot Relations (CARR)?

No...

Council on American Indigent Robots (Cair)

re: #53 Wishing

According to all the reports I heard, Black Friday was a huge success, with a 10% INCREASE in sales over last year. So are the American people nuts, or what? Or maybe they just don't believe we are actually in a recession...or they think the Zero will pay off their debt?

I heard about 3%, but nuts? I don't know. I am spending money but then again I have a good job that is very unlikely to be in danger. Perhaps there are quite a few more folks out there in my position than not.
On the previous thread I saw an explanation why we are not officially in a recession based on the GDP from one commenter.
There were probably a lot of people spending this past weekend that are not expecting a bailout.
Knowing human nature I am sure there were a few.

This whole thing seems to me to be a self fulfilling prophesy, in that before there was a problem the media said we were in a recession.

At that point there were two enormous economic challenges. The first was the housing bubble where about (depending on which numbers you believe) 3% to 5% of mortgages were "troubled". The second was Fannie and Freddie were allowed to be leveraged 100%, meaning for every dollar you had in the bank you could loan out $100.00.

That means that if the value of the assets you are loaning against drop by 1% you have no more equity. Hence the need for an emergency bail out.

This second issue was entirely avoidable and is the fault of those in Washington DC that allowed this to happen (both Democrats and Republicans). We were sold down the road by the government, not Wall Street. These issues would be a lot easier to deal with in an environment of increasing housing values, but that isn't the case any longer.

As everything went south, people actually stopped spending. Since the largest sector of our economy is driven by the American consumer, when they stopped buying stuff, the defecation hit the fan. The lack of consumer confidence is what is driving us into the sewer right now.

Gotta' go chop some stuff for soft tacos. bbl

I can always sell my body parts. Oh, wait, maybe not.

re: #86 tackle

They're starting to piss me off. We have excellent credit, pay on time, and they want to make harder for me. We have them basically to earn SkyMiles, but we painfully discovered that it's almost impossible to redeem them, unless you want to fly to North Dakota in February.

LOL, I use a citibank card for business, you know, the company that advertises no hassle miles? LOL, guess what, there is no less hassle. I could not get a 1 way to Florida to drive a client back to the Cape. Round trip only. So much for "No Hassle"

Am I the only one who feels just a little bit uneasy about having a man who knows absolutely nothing assuming control of this economy?

I know, I know it is probably just a personal problem...nothing to fret about Shadow, all will be fine. Maybe if I just say it a few more times - all will be fine, all will be fine, all will be fine.

Crap

Ordered a password to look at my 401K statement online. Wife saw a "piece of paper", assumed it was trash and trashed it.

I think I'm glad. Really don't want to see it.

re: #95 rawmuse

I can always sell my body parts. Oh, wait, maybe not.

I'm just going to rent them out. Ladies, if you need me, I'll be in the corner licking my eyebrows and doing my impression of a tripod.

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OMG

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

The Lost in Space robot was is a Model B-9, Class M-3 General Utility Non-Theorizing Environmental Control Robot, which had no given name.

OMG, for a mere $24,500, you can own a fully licensed exact replica!

re: #98 The Shadow Do

Am I the only one who feels just a little bit uneasy about having a man who knows absolutely nothing assuming control of this economy?

I know, I know it is probably just a personal problem...nothing to fret about Shadow, all will be fine. Maybe if I just say it a few more times - all will be fine, all will be fine, all will be fine.

Crap

I'm a tad more worried that a man who knows nothing about the world or our military is assuming control of ...

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm just going to rent them out. Ladies, if you need me, I'll be in the corner licking my eyebrows and doing my impression of a tripod.

ROFLMAO!

re: #83 CapeCoddah

I work with the obscenely rich. They are terrified, and that has not happened since the depression.

Any of them have a spare daughter hanging around?

re: #87 Boogberg

I heard on FOX a little while ago that credit limits are going to be reduced on consumer credit cards.

Odd, just last week my Mastercard folks sent me a cheerful notice that my limit had been raised.

/I'm putting all my money into single malt scotch. It may not help, but I won't care a bit.

And just WTF is The One doing about this?
He should be out there, like Mickey Mouse in "The Sorcerer's Apprentice".

/that'd be pretty danged cute, wouldn't it? ... heh

re: #106 Occasional Reader

Odd, just last week my Mastercard folks sent me a cheerful notice that my limit had been raised.

My cat got the same notice?
/

re: #102 Last Mohican

OMG, for a mere $24,500, you can own a fully licensed exact replica!

I've seen that, and I've seen a Robby for sale too! Don't have that link right now.

BBIAW

re: #86 tackle

unless you want to fly to North Dakota in February.

Hilarious because I am seriously considering going to South Dakota in January.

We have the 3-day weekend and we've never seen Mount Rushmore.

re: #97 CapeCoddah

LOL, I use a citibank card for business, you know, the company that advertises no hassle miles? LOL, guess what, there is no less hassle. I could not get a 1 way to Florida to drive a client back to the Cape. Round trip only. So much for "No Hassle"

Strange. I've had absolutely no problem with them.

Am I running in circles around something small? Perhaps a Festivus pole? Something large will tire me out too quickly and I may not be able to maintain my enthusiasm for the full effect of the panic.

Later.

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm just going to rent them out. Ladies, if you need me, I'll be in the corner licking my eyebrows and doing my impression of a tripod.

I'm gonna keep running back up-thread -- looking to see if any of the ladies have up-dinged you.

re: #98 The Shadow Do

Am I the only one who feels just a little bit uneasy about having a man who knows absolutely nothing assuming control of this economy?

The Good News, he isn't exactly in control. Congress arguably has more control.

The Bad News: he doesn't 'know nothing', he knows Marxism.

re: #109 Nevergiveup

My cat got the same notice?
/

Hmmm thinking the furry friend was nosing around the computer the other day, better check for unusual charges, very low taste feared.

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, they all look the same to me.

/wait for it

OK I'l bite.

RACIST!
/

Re: 71 -what are they using...

I just canceled one of our two cell phones. Then I asked what the one would cost per month. He said 39.99 + taxes. He asked what I was going to do, and I told him we would get a tr-ac phone. (for 6.50 @ month, (hehe) . Oh, I can get 150 minutes for you for 19.95 a month. Will have to see if that works.
( "whatever the traffic will bear" )
Sheldon (Iowa)

re: #111 Silhouette

Check for fog at Mount Rushmore. We spent 3 days there a few years ago and it was fogged in the whole time, We never saw even a little bit but we can say we went.

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Am I running in circles around something small? Perhaps a Festivus pole? Something large will tire me out too quickly and I may not be able to maintain my enthusiasm for the full effect of the panic.

Just make sure to pace yourself. You can usually work some aimless meandering and some stunned silence in there, so when something big happens, you can be able to throw in some real hysterics.

I am a trader. Trade these markets. Pretty crazy.

Last week, the market rallied on no volume. Today the market broke on higher than normal volume. People rushed for the exits two weeks ago. Thanksgiving week is traditionally a slow week. People are still looking for a way out the door, some are more patient than others.

Secretary Paulson, and Bernancke spoke today. Neither was reassuring. As I listened to Paulson speak at 2PM CST, I listened closely to his words. He really doesn't know what exactly is going on, or how to fix it. He is protecting his Wall Street cronies.

Every bank on Wall Street is broke. When you look at Tier 3 capital, they are all busto. The way to get this market working again is to eliminate all the counter party risk that exists. Only way to do that is throw this on an independent clearinghouse that the banks don't control. They are fighting that tooth and nail. Until that happens, the credit market will stay on lockdown.

This market is headed lower.

re: #105 lifeofthemind

Any of them have a spare daughter hanging around?

Most of them are dumb as rocks. The daughters, that is. I just did a wedding for one such daughter. When she and her new husband got into the Rolls after the ceremony, Hubby turned to his new bride and said, and I quote "Dude, I dont want to do the first dance, Im too hung over". the Brides dad, My client spent over a Million on the Wedding, Flew her to Paris in a private jet for the dress, Rented out Chatham Bars Inn, The ENTIRE property, in season, Flew in a band from England, and this litttle shit calls her DUDE. My client would have dropped dead on the spot if he had heard that. This is the twerp she picks to marry.

re: #14 A Kiwi Infidel

This insight deserves its own thread.

unicorns riding tidal waves of rainbows coming from the white house will clense wall street of its gloom soon enough.

re: #119 fish

OK I'l bite.

RACIST!
/

Thanks, thats what I was waiting for.

Last update - 00:15 02/12/2008

Olmert: I'm convinced Hillary Clinton will advance Israel-U.S. relations

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Well only if it's in Hilliary's best interest. But then that's been your philosophy also Olmert!

re: #118 Iron Fist

. We'd have been better off if we elected my kid sister than ...

Bet your kid sister would make them sit up and behave.

re: #121 cookies mom

Check for fog at Mount Rushmore. We spent 3 days there a few years ago and it was fogged in the whole time, We never saw even a little bit but we can say we went.

Dang. How does one check for fog and still get tickets 21 days in advance.

Is there a foggy season?

Thanks for the heads up

re: #106 Occasional Reader

Odd, just last week my Mastercard folks sent me a cheerful notice that my limit had been raised.

Yeah, me too. But I'd be willing to bet they can reduce it just as easily as they raise it.

Is the current economic catastrophe going to affect George Soros?

I think I might be willing to lose my entire retirement savings if I could see George Soros sitting in the gutter begging for quarters. Put Oprah there next to him and you've got a done deal.

re: #115 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm gonna keep running back up-thread -- looking to see if any of the ladies have up-dinged you.

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You and Mandy keep it discreet now, y'hear?!

re: #112 Soona'

Strange. I've had absolutely no problem with them.

That was the first and last time I tried to use the miles. 2 years ago, I believe.

Down 700 one day, up 600 another followed by another day where it's up 300 before going down 800. Face it folks, there are no fundamentals dictating these moves, just fear (fear of losing money and fear of missing a potential profit maker) and anxiety by those who control huge volumes of stock. Shut off CNBC and FBC and enjoy the true meaning of the Christmas season. Your money will probably be there after all is said and done.

re: #134 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You and Mandy keep it discreet now, y'hear?!

Hell no, I got bills to pay. You can subscribe to the live feed or order the DVDs

re: #120 Sheldon

Re: 71 -what are they using...

I just canceled one of our two cell phones. Then I asked what the one would cost per month. He said 39.99 + taxes. He asked what I was going to do, and I told him we would get a tr-ac phone. (for 6.50 @ month, (hehe) . Oh, I can get 150 minutes for you for 19.95 a month. Will have to see if that works.
( "whatever the traffic will bear" )
Sheldon (Iowa)

Trac fone sucks. Get Virgin, or T-Mobile.

OT

Lots of AP, NYT's and LA Times coverage of the Mumbai massacre in India, but I noticed the word "Islam" never seemed to appear in any articles. I read "militant" and "Gunman" plenty of times, but the words MUSLIM or ISLAM are just not present.

re: #124 CapeCoddah

Most of them are dumb as rocks. The daughters, that is. I just did a wedding for one such daughter. When she and her new husband got into the Rolls after the ceremony, Hubby turned to his new bride and said, and I quote "Dude, I dont want to do the first dance, Im too hung over". the Brides dad, My client spent over a Million on the Wedding, Flew her to Paris in a private jet for the dress, Rented out Chatham Bars Inn, The ENTIRE property, in season, Flew in a band from England, and this litttle shit calls her DUDE. My client would have dropped dead on the spot if he had heard that. This is the twerp she picks to marry.

Ah, Love!

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER. PUT YOUR MONEY INTO MUTUAL FUNDS!"

oh the pain...the pain!

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hell no, I got bills to pay. You can subscribe to the live feed or order the DVDs

EEEUUUWWW!

re: #115 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm gonna keep running back up-thread -- looking to see if any of the ladies have up-dinged you.

I just did. X)

re: #124 CapeCoddah

Most of them are dumb as rocks. The daughters, that is. I just did a wedding for one such daughter. When she and her new husband got into the Rolls after the ceremony, Hubby turned to his new bride and said, and I quote "Dude, I dont want to do the first dance, Im too hung over". the Brides dad, My client spent over a Million on the Wedding, Flew her to Paris in a private jet for the dress, Rented out Chatham Bars Inn, The ENTIRE property, in season, Flew in a band from England, and this litttle shit calls her DUDE. My client would have dropped dead on the spot if he had heard that. This is the twerp she picks to marry.

Used to be 3 generations shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves, now they are accelerating the process. These fools will have nothing in 5 years.

re: #123 pittrader1988

Thanks for the insight.

Panel warns US bio attack likely in next 5 years

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

How long can you hold your breath?

re: #143 gop_patriot

I just did. X)

Heh ... guess Kragar'll be out of service for a few days.

re: #136 RightLogic

Face it folks, there are no fundamentals dictating these moves

Fundamentals would be:

Build a durable house, live in it;

Plant a crop, harvest, eat;

Raise kids;

The "market" is far from that.

re: #123 pittrader1988

I am a trader. Trade these markets. Pretty crazy.

Last week, the market rallied on no volume. Today the market broke on higher than normal volume. People rushed for the exits two weeks ago. Thanksgiving week is traditionally a slow week. People are still looking for a way out the door, some are more patient than others.

Secretary Paulson, and Bernancke spoke today. Neither was reassuring. As I listened to Paulson speak at 2PM CST, I listened closely to his words. He really doesn't know what exactly is going on, or how to fix it. He is protecting his Wall Street cronies.

Every bank on Wall Street is broke. When you look at Tier 3 capital, they are all busto. The way to get this market working again is to eliminate all the counter party risk that exists. Only way to do that is throw this on an independent clearinghouse that the banks don't control. They are fighting that tooth and nail. Until that happens, the credit market will stay on lockdown.

This market is headed lower.

How does the Fed fit in? They seem like they are the ones controlling this free fall, and are most positioned to benefit after it hits bottom.

Electing a damn socialist as President is brilliant strategy for a market ecomomy, if your an idiot and don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Change!

/be careful what you ask for Obama fools, cause now you can deal with it.

re: #144 lifeofthemind

Used to be 3 generations shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves, now they are accelerating the process. These fools will have nothing in 5 years.

My client is no fool, his daughter, on the other hand... Yeah, his fortune will go up in smoke with those two.

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I like this one better

re: #146 Iron Fist

Look at it this way: the marriage probably won't last a year. Maybe at least they won't reproduce.

LOL, not if he drinks like that!

re: #147 Nevergiveup

Panel warns US bio attack likely in next 5 years

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

How long can you hold your breath?

Quite a while actually. Again, ladies, I am available at a nominal fee.

re: #152 buzzsawmonkey

It's part of the Circle of Life. Man born to reduced circumstances applies himself and makes money; pampers offspring so that they do not suffer the privations he did; offspring thereby to not acquire the parent's survival instincts, and in a generation, or maybe two, piss away the money and revert to reduced circumstances.

It's like the tiny acorn giving birth to the mighty oak which dominates the forest, then ultimately dies, falls, and is converted by toadstools and grubs into soil for the oaks of the future.

Zactly.

re: #146 Iron Fist

Look at it this way: the marriage probably won't last a year. Maybe at least they won't reproduce.

Trust me. These are the people that always find a way to reproduce.

re: #152 buzzsawmonkey

It's like the tiny acorn giving birth to the mighty oak which dominates the forest, then ultimately dies, falls, and is converted by toadstools and grubs into soil for the oaks of the future.

That was quite poetic.

I'd love to hear CapeCoddah repeating that, word for word, as he tries to comfort the ultrawealthy dad who has just heard his new drunken son-in-law call his daughter "dude." It would be hilarious.

I wonder if dad also had to pay for the strippers for the new son-in-law.

re: #156 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Quite a while actually. Again, ladies, I am available at a nominal fee.

Don't sell yourself short

I actually have that clients home featured on my website, It was the perfect place to photograph the Bentley Azure.

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just make sure to pace yourself. You can usually work some aimless meandering and some stunned silence in there, so when something big happens, you can be able to throw in some real hysterics.

Shit. That's what I've been doing.

re: #148 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Heh ... guess Kragar'll be out of service for a few days.

Watch it, I'm a happily married woman! Kragar made me laugh.

;)

re: #160 HoosierHoops

Don't sell yourself short

ssshhh, I'm just giving them the introductory offer for now

re: #160 HoosierHoops

Don't sell yourself short

ooo!
Hoosier just put Kragar in the barrel!
... HERE IT COMES!

re: #131 Silhouette

Dang. How does one check for fog and still get tickets 21 days in advance.

Is there a foggy season?

Thanks for the heads up

Just do it after January 20th. Sun is going to break through the clouds, and you'll see BHO carved right beside Washington.

re: #159 Last Mohican

That was quite poetic.

I'd love to hear CapeCoddah repeating that, word for word, as he tries to comfort the ultrawealthy dad who has just heard his new drunken son-in-law call his daughter "dude." It would be hilarious.

I wonder if dad also had to pay for the strippers for the new son-in-law.

LOL, this client is so down to earth, he has dirt under his fingernails. He would have been deeply embarrassed and would probably have objected at the altar. He is a great guy. He is not too fond of the kid to begin with.

re: #123 pittrader1988

Every bank on Wall Street is broke. When you look at Tier 3 capital, they are all busto. The way to get this market working again is to eliminate all the counter party risk that exists. Only way to do that is throw this on an independent clearinghouse that the banks don't control. They are fighting that tooth and nail. Until that happens, the credit market will stay on lockdown.

Translation please "Market Savy for Dummies" would make a good title...

re: #161 taxfreekiller

Dear Two Party Evil Money Cult,

We the People are on to your shit, you lie, you cheat, you steal by stealth, Enron is just the tip of the shit like the global warming fraud and we know it. We are not buying your two bit shit stock any longer, shit like the $296,000,000 in 2 years by the Pres. of TXU to scam us out of our money in bull shit rate shit from the PUC in Austin Tx. that is your little crooked deal, well screw you and the crime family you two are. We the People

You can't do a damn thing about it. I wonder how long it is going to take John Q. Public to understand that point?

re: #166 buzzsawmonkey

My car is a Bentley--but only around the fenders.

I went to Reggie Millers retirement game.. I have never seen so many Bentleys..It was so cool

re: #165 gop_patriot

Watch it, I'm a happily married woman! Kragar made me laugh.

;)

Heh ... don't louse up a good teasing.
See HoosierHoops' #160.

Global Terrorism, Global Warming, Global Economic Recession, Rogue States Getting Global Ending Weapons...its the year 5769...

re: #164 Iron Fist

Yeah, I know. And then we wind up supporting them, and the children, and their children's children...

An instance when "etc." becomes a four-letter word.

Re: # 138 'Virgin'

Don't know if I could handle that at 77 yr. :-)

re: #50 Occasional Reader

Everyone pull down your pants and run around in circles! I call for panic!

"Ladies and Gentlemen take my advice: pull down your pants and slide on the ice!" Sidney from MASH

I'm watching the Military Channel and it is about some of the commie bastard soviet spies at Los Alamos. And so of course General Groves in it alot. Man, was he a fat pig. A great American, A great builder ( he also built the Pentagon ), and a great organizer. But he could never pass a Military Physical today. I wonder what he ran a mile and 1/2 in with that stomach? OK, sorry for the interruption.

On the bright side...gun values are up. Not that I plan on selling, but it's nice to know that some of my assets can still perform in this environment.

re: #173 HoosierHoops

I went to Reggie Millers retirement game.. I have never seen so many Bentleys..It was so cool

Bentley is the cream. I like them better than Rolls. But, neither is the same quality it used to be, before the company was broken up and sold off in 02. The Bentley salesmen call them Volkswagen Bentley's now. They no longer come with a chrome grill, plastic now. Same for Rolls, but, you can order the chrome.

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thanks, thats what I was waiting for.

Glad to help out!

re: #183 buzzsawmonkey

But it's really good plastic. And you can't beat a hand-rubbed plastic finish.

LOL, we will not buy the new ones. I have an 80 Rolls Silver Shadow, a 93 Bentley Brooklands, a 96 Rolls Silver Dawn, and a 97 Bentley Azure convertible. No Plastic, anywhere.

Buying opportunity! Wish I had some money.

Real Rancher

re: #15 eschew_obfuscation

[...] He's already tacitly admitted that tax increases are bad for the economy and I can't believe people like Larry Summers would be telling him they would be a good idea. [...]

Which makes one ask in what environment would tax increases ever be appropriate? If it tanks a weak economy, why would you willingly want to slow a strong one?

OT, or perhaps more on topic than ever, I read Atlas Shrugged over the weekend. I know how some people put that book on a pedestal and others drone on how much it's over-rated. I'll say how it's scary, despite a few literal anachronisms, how spot on target that book is. Taxes are patriotic... Some companies are too big to fail... Compulsory civil service... Significant government intervention required to curtail a national crisis... I was watching one of the financial shows saturday morning and some douchebag was spouting off how, and I'm paraphrasing, how traditional blue chips are a thing of the past. Once the bear market returns, it's incumbent on investors to look to companies with a forward looking social business model to invest in. I was running on the treadmill and almost fell of when it registered what he was saying.

re: #180 brickthruplateglasswindow

On the bright side...gun values are up. Not that I plan on selling, but it's nice to know that some of my assets can still perform in this environment.

We actually had a brand new gun store open up in our tiny rural town over the weekend, the only one. Me and the wife went in to show our support. Nice couple and not a lot of junk stuff on the shelves. And very reasonable prices. I wish I was in the market so I could support them, but I am alas, a bit overstocked at the moment.

re: #108 pre-Boomer Marine brat

MWAH!

re: #159 Last Mohican

That was quite poetic.

I'd love to hear CapeCoddah repeating that, word for word, as he tries to comfort the ultrawealthy dad who has just heard his new drunken son-in-law call his daughter "dude." It would be hilarious.

I wonder if dad also had to pay for the strippers for the new son-in-law.

I hope dad insisted on a pre-nup.

re: #181 CapeCoddah

Bentley is the cream. I like them better than Rolls. But, neither is the same quality it used to be, before the company was broken up and sold off in 02. The Bentley salesmen call them Volkswagen Bentley's now. They no longer come with a chrome grill, plastic now. Same for Rolls, but, you can order the chrome.

What a shame. I knew an old boy who worked for 40 years for Rolls. He was a woodworker. He told me his QC for gloveboxes - when closed there would be an audible 'whoosh' sound

Heh heh, after I lost my job last Sept.- I waited till this Jan. to cash in the 403B, got good value for it. NOT participating in the new job- It's the Obama recession- no way. Well the BO voters got what they wanted- suckers. Too bad they didn't listen to us Lizards- 99 44/100 % of us voted for Palin & Johnny Mac I'd guess. We had the knowledge- most folks do more research on their two week summer vacation or the buying of a toaster than who they want to lead the country. Sad.

re: #192 The Shadow Do

What a shame. I knew an old boy who worked for 40 years for Rolls. He was a woodworker. He told me his QC for gloveboxes - when closed there would be an audible 'whoosh' sound

My new company supplies parts to Rolls Royce- they are a BIG pain- screwing up contracts- changing orders- they have a poor payment history- sorry we got involved with them.

re: #131 Silhouette

Dang. How does one check for fog and still get tickets 21 days in advance.

Is there a foggy season?

Thanks for the heads up

Probably won't be foggy in January. Be darn chilly and maybe snowy, though. Give me a heads up and I'll look out the window and check it out for you.

re: #4 father_of_10

Sooner or later, don;t you think the MSM will start in on him?

No...not even. Ever. There's no end to their bias.
/

re: #194 LEGION

My new company supplies parts to Rolls Royce- they are a BIG pain- screwing up contracts- changing orders- they have a poor payment history- sorry we got involved with them.

Not the old Rolls of fame I'm sure.

re: #16 A Kiwi Infidel

Getting back to the subject, I cannot help thinking that someone, somewhere, is playing this market like a violin, and making a shitload of money on the way. Sadly, where there are winners, there will be the losers.

Think Soros...

re: #188 USCMSNE

Atlas Shrugged was so-so as a novel, but in the light of current events, rather unsettling as a prognostication.

re: #185 Iron Fist

Yeah, if I had any money I'd buy a Sig 556 and one of the new Microtech AUGs. Both of those guns will skyrocket in price if they renew the "assault weapons" ban.

Agreed. Anything with that kind of "look" is sure to make the next list. :(

I was lucky. I had an inkling things might break this way and made some acquisitions...but I went the other direction. I went decidedly low-tech. SKSes, and lo-cap WASR's (low end AK's.)

re: #200 buzzsawmonkey

I'm partial to the onion Rolls, myself.

Parker rolls are tasty.

re: #188 USCMSNE

Significant government intervention required to curtail a national crisis

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.

re: #16 A Kiwi Infidel

Getting back to the subject, I cannot help thinking that someone, somewhere, is playing this market like a violin, and making a shitload of money on the way. Sadly, where there are winners, there will be the losers.

The great monetary puppetmaster Soros.

re: #189 JohnnyReb

We actually had a brand new gun store open up in our tiny rural town over the weekend, the only one. Me and the wife went in to show our support. Nice couple and not a lot of junk stuff on the shelves. And very reasonable prices. I wish I was in the market so I could support them, but I am alas, a bit overstocked at the moment.

"Overstocked at the moment" is code for...haven't yet convinced the Mrs. :)

re: #203 The Shadow Do

Parker rolls are tasty.

Sarah Jessica Parker
*whinny*

re: #188 USCMSNE

Significant government intervention required to curtail a national crisis
re: #204 Rancher

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.

That needed a sarc tag?

The scary thing for me is that 0 is saying what an opportunity this is to do GREAT things...but the best thing to do is nothing, let the market get its footing because anything else makes for a bigger fall. He sounds like he is going to intervene big time.

re: #169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just do it after January 20th. Sun is going to break through the clouds, and you'll see BHO carved right beside in place of Washington.

Fixed that for you.

re: #203 The Shadow Do

Parker rolls are tasty.

Considering our up and coming administration I think that crescent rolls may be appropriate.

re: #87 Boogberg

I heard on FOX a little while ago that credit limits are going to be reduced on consumer credit cards. Well isn't that fucking nice. Unless I'm mistaken, that will automatically reduce your FICO score. Bastards!

Do some Moonlighting and earn some more money, silly.

A week and a half ago when the chosen one made some cabinet announcements the stock market rallied and they all said it was because of the Messiah’s picks. Today he made some more choices and the stock market fell 679 points, do you think they said it was because of his choices this time?

Please pass the extra large barf bucket!

Now they're hawking a Lincoln/Obama coin, saying that Lincoln paved the way for Obama's election.

Give me a break!

re: #209 Right mind left

That needed a sarc tag?

[...]

That's an actual quote from Rahm Emanuel, pointing how fortunate the current situation is for the Congress. This "crisis" is a moment of opportunity for them. In his, and others, opinion it is now easier to push through social agenda issues that wouldn't have had support on their own. Case in point, wasn't it an insurance clause that was jammed into the original $700B bailout that had nothing to do with salvaging the economy? That hadn't and wouldn't have passed on it's own. But the democrats slid it in, knowing that too many Republicans compromised that clause for the bailout as a whole.

re: #213 DoubleU

A week and a half ago when the chosen one made some cabinet announcements the stock market rallied and they all said it was because of the Messiah’s picks. Today he made some more choices and the stock market fell 679 points, do you think they said it was because of his choices this time?

No, the market drop was Bush's fault. Get with the program!

/

re: #171 The Shadow Do

Sorry, don't mean to be wonky.

The investment banks are not set up like your average business. They have assets and liabilities, but because they generate a lot of their revenue from proprietary trading (trading for themselves just like you do when you play the market) they are able to put a lot of their liabilities off balance sheet. They don't have to list them because of various FASB accounting rules. Banks also list their "cash" account in capital traunches called stages. Stage 1 is immediate cash that is used to run the business and so on. If you look at the banks books, they don't have enough cash to meet their liabilities, off and on balance sheet. This means that they have to sell those liabilities at a loss, or raise capital through stock offerings to meet those liabilities. They can't raise capital, and the market has frozen-so essentially the banks are insolvent.

The TARP is supposed to inject funds into the Equity part of a banks balance sheet. The government is getting preferred non voting shares which function like a bond. The preferred shares will pay a rate of interest to the government, provided the existing bondholders get paid. No common shares will receive a dividend until the preferred gets paid.

However, as we have seen, the TARP is being misused. It is going to mergers and acquisitions, to bonuses, to capital expenditures. It should be used to create credit in the market. It's not.

Counter party risk "cpr"is the risk associated with trading with someone. You walk into a bank to get a loan, the bank assumes some counter party risk when they loan money to you. In the case of the investment banks, they assume counter party risk when they trade or loan with other banks and investment funds. There is a terrific amount of cpr in the market. Only way to mitigate it is a clearing house ([Link: cmegroup.com...] This takes away all the cpr, and leaves only the risk of the asset.

The Federal Reserve has actually done the right thing by providing easy credit. They have no control over the American money supply anymore (like they did in the late 70's). They have little control over the real rate of interest, and their policy moves lag by a few months. They need to do all they can to stop deflation, which is what we have today. They can encourage borrowers to remortgage loans, etc. But they can't compel people to lend.

If we can stop this deflationary spiral, you can count on a massive devaluation of the dollar. Currently, the dollar has gotten much stronger due to the entire worldwide melt down. This by the way is one of the reasons oil has tanked.
When the dollar weakens, oil prices will increase.

Only thing that will stop deflation is the bottom in the housing market, and the firming up of the stock market. Government spending does nothing to alleviate, or stimulate economic activity for the long term. Steven Levitt wrote a nice blog at the NY Times on this (University of Chicago economist).

Hoe this wasn't too wonky. I am used to talking with people that know all the wonky terms. I would be useless in a factory, emergency room, court of law or anyplace else. I would nod my head and just say "Huh?". Unfortunately, most of Congress does that too.

Probably because of this:

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Québécois, if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.

That's right, the liberals and socialists are forming a coalition with the bloc, a strictly seperatist party, and they're going to oust the conservatives next monday.

From there, it goes to the governer general, and she decides wether to call an election (we just had one 6 weeks ago) or ask the opposition "coalition" to form government.

re: #217 pittrader1988

Essentially, you're telling us to go to cash, right?

Or, are you saying to buy foreign currencies -- and, therefore, bet against the dollar?

re: #217 pittrader1988

Regarding the tranches, aren't these groupings of like-debt, sold to creditors?

Interesting that the ability to borrow money has dried up. I thought this meant that interest rates would go UP -- demand high, supply low.

Duh, don't we still have year-end tax-loss selling to contend with? And how about what the replacement managers setting their own portfolio agendas after some guiding lights get the heave ho in the new year? Then there's deciding what sectors the One will pour tax dollars into for the infrastructure or the miraculous and timely replacements for the evil fossil fuels.

You'll find that some funds are way up this year because they are bear funds that short the shit out of some stocks with impunity, smelling blood in the water. Someone had mentioned taking his American bucks and buying Swiss Francs, but the Swiss banks are worse off than our own and the Swiss Franc is in the toilet. Investors are taking their money out of Swiss banking. The IRS accomplished what Hitler could as Swiss banks are telling the US about big buck American depositors.

Same sh*t, new day. We're in a recession. Buckle up and don't waste any money on stuff you don't need. Damn, no more scallops & bacon!

re: #222 Maui Girl

Same sh*t, new day. We're in a recession. Buckle up and don't waste any money on stuff you don't need. Damn, no more scallops & bacon!

No way - I'd give up anything else first.

re: #220 hermeneutics

No, cash is the wrong thing to be in. In an inflationary environment, hard commodities like oil, land, and even (ugh)...gold. I hate telling people to put money in gold! To invest in commodities, invest in a broad based fund. These things have been massacred over the past 6 months. Once the dollar depreciates, they will rally.

Traunches of capital are not assets that can be resold. It is cash or equity held on a balance sheet (or in some cases off balance sheet) that are used to satisfy the liabilities of the firm. In the case of the I-banks, they are bankrupt. If you take their stage 1-3 capital, and compare it to ALL their liabilities-a "current ratio" if you will, they are negative.

Sayonara to them. They cannot survive at all in the structure that they have, valiantly as they are trying (even co-opting the Treasury secy)

This is not just a US problem. Japanese banks are sort of healthy (they had a real estate crisis in 1990). Chinese banks are in trouble. They have loans on their books that are absolute crap. Never forget, they are communist. Communism doesn't allow for efficient allocation of capital-no matter what the official line is over there.

Only way to overcome it is through economic activity. Essentially, lower marginal rates, less unions, less government spending on things that don't matter, stuff that is not popular now. The government SHOULD spend on defense of course, but domestically on big road and bridge projects. They should spend on re-education of the work force. Great editorial in the WSJ today by Louis Gertner. We need more engineers and scientists (and mathematicians), less touchy feely bull crap.

Sorry for the rant.

I had thought we'd seen the bottom @ circa 8K. Now, I'm not so sure. News out of China is ghoulishly grim, and I'm thinking 7K is possible by the end of the week.

I really, really hope I'm wrong, but hey, gas is under $50.00 per barrel. I bought gas at $1.65 9/10 in San Antonio on Thanksgiving, and I nearly pissed my pants. I paid over $4.00 along I10 in Texas just a couple of months ago.

re: #218 allan5oh

So what's the point of having elections up there?

re: #212 debutaunt

Do some Moonlighting and earn some more money, silly.

Haha! Hey, I like Dave Ramsey too. :D

I hope this tread isn't too dead to notice. there wasn't an open thread, and Silly me, I thought I'd post a comment in the proper context.

[Link: www.portfolio.com...]
Here's a true insider's view of just how the market went unbelievably wrong. It's very long, and it's like a train wreck in slow motion. Or maybe a Horror movie where nobody will listen to the truth.

Seriously, you NEED to read this article to understand the true depth of the wreckage the SubPrime thing has made of our financial system.

MSM for the next 4+ years:

Bad things happen: Bush's fault
Good things happen: The Messiah's Golden touch

re: #224 pittrader1988

Pitrader,
Thanks for the expert info. Kind of like my French teacher who spoke French all the time even though we didn't understand most of it, we eventually caught on, word by word. Keep the good posts coming.

No, it isn't over. It has only just begun.

The market is doing what markets do. Correcting for overvaluation of assets.

And a little destruction of wealth along with it.

When we hit a 10% change in our GDP, it isn't a recession any longer.

Lets hope congress isn't stupid enough to get in the way of the economy as it destroys extra capacity in the auto manufacturing market. At least one of the big 3 needs to go down. There isn't enough business for all 3 to be healthy. 1 possibly, 2 doubtful. 3 No.

The market fixes these problems. It does a good job when left to its own devices. Distressed assets are valued or discarded as worthless. This is what markets do. Governments screw all this up. They prolong the pain in order to pretend to solve the pain.

Congress seems to be on the trajectory to inject itself into this mess. And by doing so, they will make it worse for all.

Another poster wrote about the unions. They are one of the reasons the auto companies are in this mess. Their leadership doesn't get it either. Maybe if it is explained to them that having some jobs at the prevailing wage is far better than no jobs at the union negotiated wage ... though I don't think that they will quite grasp this.

Didn't one of O's advisers say something along the lines of not letting a good crisis go to waste? Serious problems lead to "emergency measures" that usually end up restricting freedoms and/or making things a whole lot worse.

re: #98 The Shadow Do

Am I the only one who feels just a little bit uneasy about having a man who knows absolutely nothing assuming control of this economy?

I know, I know it is probably just a personal problem...nothing to fret about Shadow, all will be fine. Maybe if I just say it a few more times - all will be fine, all will be fine, all will be fine.

Crap

You are not alone and it will get worse.

Good news - bad news. Asian markets tanking took the New Zealand dollar down from 1.80 = $1.00 U.S. to 1.89. As we live off american dollars here it's kind of hard to feel bad about it, although we do feel like finks for cheering against the home team.

If you think that 8000 is an OK spot for it to settle then be prepared to hold onto your hats as it will definitely bottom out somewhere in the 4000-5000 level.

# 228 mAUSER

Thanks for a great article which should be read by everyone

re: #228 Mauser

I hope this tread isn't too dead to notice. there wasn't an open thread, and Silly me, I thought I'd post a comment in the proper context.

[Link: www.portfolio.com...]
Here's a true insider's view of just how the market went unbelievably wrong. It's very long, and it's like a train wreck in slow motion. Or maybe a Horror movie where nobody will listen to the truth.

Seriously, you NEED to read this article to understand the true depth of the wreckage the SubPrime thing has made of our financial system.

A great article that everyone should read and actually well written

Yes. Very interesting, Mauser.

test post.