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Jindal: Political Meteor or Meteorite?

Politics | Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:40:43 pm PST

Is Bobby Jindal the next Barack Obama?

No less an aspiring kingmaker than Steve Schmidt, the chief strategist of McCain’s failed presidential bid, sees Jindal as the Republican Party’s destiny. “The question is not whether he’ll be president, but when he’ll be president, because he will be elected someday.” The anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist believes, too, that Jindal is a certainty to occupy the White House, and conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh has described him as “the next Ronald Reagan.”

Jindal is, above all else, a political meteor, sharing Obama’s precocious skills for reaching the firmament in a hurry. It was just four years ago, after losing a gubernatorial election, that he won election to Congress, and only this year that he became Louisiana’s governor, the first nonwhite to hold the office since Reconstruction. And now, 10 months into his first term, the talk of a presidential bid is getting louder among his boosters.

... or the next William Jennings Bryan?

The record is still evolving, like the rest of him. But social conservatives like what they have heard about the public and private Jindal: his steadfast opposition to abortion without exceptions; his disapproval of embryonic stem cell research; his and his wife Supriya’s decision in 1997 to enter into a Louisiana covenant marriage that prohibits no-fault divorce in the state; and his decision in June to sign into law the Louisiana Science Education Act, a bill heartily supported by creationists that permits public school teachers to educate students about both the theory of “scientific design” and criticisms of Darwinian evolutionary concepts.

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1293 comments

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1 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:42:26pm
2 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:43:21pm

If he is it for 2012... We will get slaughtered.

3 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:44:32pm

Running for cover under a religious umbrella is not going to fly anymore for the Republicans.

4 MJ  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:44:44pm

Grover Norquist...

'nough said.

5 Charles  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:44:46pm

Notice the Washington Post's little zinger: "The record is still evolving."

6 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:45:32pm

re: #5 Charles

Notice the Washington Post's little zinger: "The record is still evolving."

I was just going to ask if that was intended.

7 jwpaine  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:46:05pm

re: #2 NYCHardhat

If he is it for 2012... We will get slaughtered.

Oh yes indeedy. If the GOP doesn't get that "social conservatism" out of its system, the fiscal conservatives are gonna find another party.

8 sngnsgt  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:46:50pm

re: #5 Charles

Just like Pres-elect Barack Obama's campaign promises are.

9 LoFlyer  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:47:04pm

What is the issue Charles? Jindal obviously supports educational debate of both theories. If Evolution is a strong theory, it will withstand the debate with flying colors!

10 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:47:11pm

re: #7 jwpaine

Oh yes indeedy. If the GOP doesn't get that "social conservatism" out of its system, the fiscal conservatives are gonna find another party.

Which one?

11 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:48:19pm

I certainly won't vote for Jindal. Go ahead and nominate him. He won't win.

12 jwpaine  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:49:38pm

re: #10 NYCHardhat

Which one?

The beer party.

13 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:49:45pm

re: #5 Charles

Notice the Washington Post's little zinger: "The record is still evolving."

And not well, in my opinion, although many folks here love him.
I am sorely disappointed, for his support of the "Education Freedom" act, but also for several other things as well.

14 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:49:47pm

re: #9 LoFlyer

The debate ended a long time ago. Should we also entertain debates about returning the periodic table of elements to include earth,water,air and fire?

15 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:49:52pm

Even if Obama makes every possible mistake and gets every position and policy bassackwards, they will just blame it on Bush and the aura of "The One" will not be diminished one candle watt. I know 4 years is a long time from now, but it's hard to unseat an incumbent, and I do not see anyone coming from the Republicans that is up to the task. Palin is too polarizing, Jindal is unknown right now, but I think he is similar to Palin in many ways. It will be harder for the left to launch a mega smear job like they did on poor old Sarah, because he is not white (sad, but true). But, the left will pull out his religious beliefs and beat him over the head with them until he cannot be elected.

16 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:51:26pm

re: #13 reine.de.tout

He is failing on many grounds. He almost was recalled recently for signing an exorbitant pay raise for the legislature. He's not a very good reformer.

17 sngnsgt  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:51:29pm

re: #12 jwpaine

I'm a beer card carrying member.

18 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:51:47pm

The Dem's found a superstar!
We need a superstar!
The Dem's found a candidate of color!
We need a candidate of color!
The Dem's got a guy with questionable beliefs!
We need a guy with questionable beliefs!

/see where I'm goin' with this

19 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:51:50pm

"No less an aspiring kingmaker than Steve Schmidt, the chief strategist of McCain’s failed presidential bid, sees Jindal as the Republican Party’s destiny."

We knew Schmidt was a loser, now we know why.

20 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:52:20pm

re: #15 Desert Dog

Even if Obama makes every possible mistake and gets every position and policy bassackwards, they will just blame it on Bush and the aura of "The One" will not be diminished one candle watt. I know 4 years is a long time from now, but it's hard to unseat an incumbent, and I do not see anyone coming from the Republicans that is up to the task. Palin is too polarizing, Jindal is unknown right now, but I think he is similar to Palin in many ways. It will be harder for the left to launch a mega smear job like they did on poor old Sarah, because he is not white (sad, but true). But, the left will pull out his religious beliefs and beat him over the head with them until he cannot be elected.

How is Jinal similar to Palin?

21 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:52:45pm

Jindal was a direct response to the idiocy that was Kathleen Blanco.

22 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:53:14pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

He is failing on many grounds. He almost was recalled recently for signing an exorbitant pay raise for the legislature. He's not a very good reformer.

Could the pay raise be a quid for their quo passing the creationism bill?

23 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:53:19pm

re: #15 Desert Dog
The Left? Apparently, the right is beginning to give "social conservatives" (translate: Christians) the cold shoulder as well.

24 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:53:23pm

re: #12 jwpaine

The beer party.

I like it.

25 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:54:16pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

He is failing on many grounds. He almost was recalled recently for signing an exorbitant pay raise for the legislature. He's not a very good reformer.

And that was after running for office on a promise of "no legislative pay raises".

btw, he ended up vetoing the pay raise anyway, once it became apparent that the public was very angry about the pay raise.

He "didn't know" there would be such controversy. How did he not know? He should have known that. He keeps himself surrounded by people who keep him isolated.

In the end - the public was angry, the legislators were angry - everybody was angry. No one was well-served by that episode. It should not have happened.

26 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:54:25pm

re: #22 MandyManners

Could the pay raise be a quid for their quo passing the creationism bill?

I don't think the two were connected, there was already plenty of support for the "Academic freedom" bill already.

27 MarkX  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:54:31pm
No less an aspiring kingmaker than Steve Schmidt, the chief strategist of McCain’s failed presidential bid, sees Jindal as the Republican Party’s destiny. “

The kiss of death.

28 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:54:39pm

Oh boy. 2012 Bobby Jindal and Sarah Palin. Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Democrats.

29 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:54:53pm

re: #22 MandyManners

Could the pay raise be a quid for their quo passing the creationism bill?

He ended vetoing the pay raise. See:
re: #25 reine.de.tout

30 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:55:48pm

If the GOP had backed Newt for president long ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Maybe they'll wise up before the next run.

31 MarkX  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:55:55pm

re: #1 buzzsawmonkey

LOL

32 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:56:24pm

re: #28 kansas

It's going to take a while for new faces and ideas to emerge in the GOP. We are looking at 8 years of Obama, maybe Republicans will wise up by then.

33 druik  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:56:28pm

Newsflash: You're going to need the Religious Right to get another Republican in the White House, at leasts barring a >major< shift in the electorate.

This Jindal guy looks to be the most dynamic of the upcoming generation of GOP statesmen, so at least give him the benefit of the doubt when he is trying to govern a deeply religious (Louisiana counties= parishes) state.

34 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:56:47pm

re: #7 jwpaine

This makes me want to bang my head against the closest wall. Jindal is NOT our answer for a number of reasons. We need to embrace the values of Reagan if we want our party back, and Reagan WAS a socon. We just need a much better understanding of what that term means. Read this article, please:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

35 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:56:55pm

If Bobby Jindal is the best the GOP can offer up, then we have a leadership crisis. I know we can do better; anti-intellectualism isn't a codified policy set.

36 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:57:13pm

Scientists have learned - meteors make craters.

Quiz: The Meteor Crater outside of Flagstaff, Arizona is

a) 50,000 years old, as established by dating the trace radioactive decay from the event.

b) 5,000 years old when created by God, who sprinkled the area with partly decayed material so as to head fake future humans in a cruel effort to undermine faith in creationism.

37 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:57:55pm

Is the creationism bill or whatever the hell it is teach creationism as science or as an alternative scientific theory? Damn that is worded crappy, sorry. Aiso is that YEC stuff?

38 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:57:58pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I don't think the two were connected, there was already plenty of support for the "Academic freedom" bill already.

I find that very sad.

39 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:58:08pm

re: #35 ClosetConservative


anti-intellectualism isn't a codified policy set.


Unfortunately it has become a mainstay of conservative politics.

40 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:58:09pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I really hope you are wrong. So far, Barry hasn't knocked the socks off of those in his OWN party, much less impressed those of us who are convinced he is a failure waiting to happen.

41 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:58:43pm

re: #35 ClosetConservative

The democrats have almost made it so, according to exit and post-election interviews with Obama voters on their knowledge of the candidate they put in office.
Their level of understanding? Next to nada.

42 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:59:06pm

re: #30 tradewind

If the GOP had backed Newt for president long ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Maybe they'll wise up before the next run.

Newt was Borked just like Palin. He wouldn't have been President. And as far as I can tell, what with the media, neither will any other Republican for the next 50 years.

43 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:59:10pm

re: #29 reine.de.tout

He ended vetoing the pay raise. See:
re: #25 reine.de.tout

I'd forgotten.

How smart is he if he thought the voters would either forget or let him do what he wanted? Or, is it a matter not of intelligence but of ethics?

44 MarkX  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:59:23pm

re: #30 tradewind

If the GOP had backed Newt for president long ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Maybe they'll wise up before the next run.

Sorry, Newt wasn't the answer.

He was good for what he did, build up a weak GOP, on the congressional level, and win the House. Anything beyond that is over his pay grade.

45 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 5:59:40pm

re: #41 tradewind

They knew he looked great behind podiums and in front of columns. What else do you need?

/////

46 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:00:12pm

re: #34 ArmyWife
Dinged you up for that. RWR brand conservatism works every time. Not this diluted crap the party "leadership" keeps pushing.

47 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:00:15pm

re: #40 ArmyWife

Actually, so far I'm very impressed with Obama. His staffing picks have largely been practical level headed folks. If I knew he was capable of being sane and moderate I might have voted for him.

48 Hobbes  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:00:43pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

I certainly won't vote for Jindal. Go ahead and nominate him. He won't win.

Did you vote in the last election?

49 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:00:47pm

re: #20 MandyManners

They are both fiscally conservative new Governors. They are both fairly religious. They are both new to the scene. They are both "non-old white guys", which, unfortunately, is a rarity in the Republican party. They both favor lower taxes and limited government (when it suits them). They are both prolife. They are both "outsiders" and not part of the Washington scene.

I will give Jindal the advantage in speaking ability. He is very well spoken and comes across as very intelligent when he speaks, the same way a certain formerly unknown Senator from Illinios does. Sarah Palin is a rockstar right now, but she polls like Hillary, 50% love - 50% unadulterated hate. I do not think she can make it 4 years from now and be the top of the ticket. I think she has reached her zenith already.

50 yochanan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:00:53pm

off topic
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

51 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:01:12pm

re: #33 druik

Newsflash: You're going to need the Religious Right to get another Republican in the White House, at leasts barring a >major< shift in the electorate.

This Jindal guy looks to be the most dynamic of the upcoming generation of GOP statesmen, so at least give him the benefit of the doubt when he is trying to govern a deeply religious (Louisiana counties= parishes) state.

He gets NO benefit of my doubt after allowing non-science to be taught in public schools' science classes. None.

52 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:01:36pm

re: #42 kansas

Take heart. Clinton and his triple sweep ushered in the Republican Revolution, of which they unfortunately failed to take advantage . Maybe they will have learned something.
Whoever is president in this particular cycle will have to be superman to be successful, so Republicans should be getting it together now.

53 traderjoe9  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:01:41pm

As long as there is no embryonic stem cell research.

54 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:01:48pm

re: #46 pingjockey

Thanks!

55 sngnsgt  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:05pm

re: #50 yochanan

off topic
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

No more fist bumps with that baby!

56 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:09pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Actually, so far I'm very impressed with Obama. His staffing picks have largely been practical level headed folks. If I knew he was capable of being sane and moderate I might have voted for him.

Yeah, and he already brought the gas prices down, and he's Abe Lincoln and FDR before he takes office. I particularly like Eric Holder. Maybe Osama Bin Laden will get a pardon./

57 TaeJohnDo  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:23pm

re: #6 gclaghorn

I was just going to ask if that was intended.

As much as we pun? Heck yeah it was intentional!

58 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:30pm

How the GOP Can Take Back the Youth Vote

We need to emphasize the elements of conservatism that empower the individual, expand liberty, and defend freedom. We need to break down issues like earmarks into simple terms, and explain that it’s not about changing the rules in the Senate. It’s about fixing our government and building a future without debt, a future with strong American consumers making individual decisions. We need to talk about the elements of conservatism that create a strong culture, instead of talking about the “inside baseball” issues surrounding the Supreme Court. We need an ambassador to the idealists just as John McCain or Mitt Romney were ambassadors to the pragmatists who focused on policy solutions but not public relations solutions. To win the youth, conservatism needs to become “sexy” again, and we have to start talking about issues in a way that shows that they matter to my generation.

We don’t have to dumb down our agenda or abandon our principles for populist rhetoric, but we need a strategy that convinces people they need to vote for America’s future, and that the Republican Party isn’t the party of old ideas or “rich white guys.”

59 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:34pm

We will lose in 2010 and see 8 years of Obama if we continue to obssess over who's running in 2012. On the other hand if Jindal's our candidate in '12, I'll be voting libertarian or something and campaigning full time against him.

60 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:40pm

re: #49 Desert Dog

Good analysis.

61 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:40pm

re: #52 tradewind

To clarify a bad sentence, ' they'= the Republicans. PIMF.

62 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:02:48pm

re: #48 Hobbes

Nope, I stayed home.

63 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:03:21pm

I do believe our best bet is Michael Steele.

64 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:03:48pm

re: #43 MandyManners

I'd forgotten.

How smart is he if he thought the voters would either forget or let him do what he wanted? Or, is it a matter not of intelligence but of ethics?

He is unaware of what is going on. He keeps himself isolated, as I said. He listens to no one, except a few trusted folks.

The latest - one day after asking the state Civil Service Commission for 100 new appointive positions to be paid at $120,000+, he set a "hiring freeze" for rank and file state employees.

65 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:04:02pm

re: #49 Desert Dog
If Hillary and Sarah, who are ideologically polar opposites, poll with the same numbers, does this mean that America really isn't ready for a woman President?

66 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:04:35pm

re: #59 Thanos

I would like to vote Libertarian but they're too nutty. They end up looking like anarchists in suits. The Libertarian party has a lot of work to do before they will earn my vote.

67 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:04:58pm

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to become a Democrat and try to move the party to the right a bit. What the hell?re: #65 RubyTuesday

If Hillary and Sarah, who are ideologically polar opposites, poll with the same numbers, does this mean that America really isn't ready for a woman President?

I would say from they way they both were treated that's exactly what that means.

68 MarkX  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:11pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I'm not so pessimistic... look where was Obama 5 years ago. 80% of America didn't know who he was...

The right guy/gal can emerge from "no where" with in the next four years. Chances are we've never heard of who will be the GOP candidate in '12.

The GOP definitely needs new blood.

69 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:13pm

re: #64 reine.de.tout

He is unaware of what is going on. He keeps himself isolated, as I said. He listens to no one, except a few trusted folks.

The latest - one day after asking the state Civil Service Commission for 100 new appointive positions to be paid at $120,000+, he set a "hiring freeze" for rank and file state employees.

A serious lack of intelligence.

70 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:24pm

re: #65 RubyTuesday
I actually thought we'd have a woman as President before a black guy.

71 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:26pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

That's why I said "or something" ... it will depend on who they run.

72 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:44pm

re: #67 kansas

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to become a Democrat and try to move the party to the right a bit.


Interesting idea.

73 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:52pm

re: #45 ArmyWife

For starters, I'd have him get that mole thingy removed from the side of his nose, stat.
But then, I'm all about the deep core issues.

74 Hobbes  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:05:58pm

re: #40 ArmyWife

I really hope you are wrong. So far, Barry hasn't knocked the socks off of those in his OWN party, much less impressed those of us who are convinced he is a failure waiting to happen.

But, the MSM and over half the general public adore him.

75 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:06:30pm

re: #74 Hobbes

But, the MSM and over half the general public adore him.

For now.

76 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:06:41pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Interesting idea.

Yeah that worked well for Lieberman? Jeesh!

77 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:06:54pm

re: #67 kansas

We still have plenty of those down South where I live.
Doesn't help.
Well, maybe a little, on the local level.

78 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:07:38pm

re: #33 druik

Newsflash: You're going to need the Religious Right to get another Republican in the White House, at leasts barring a >major< shift in the electorate.

This Jindal guy looks to be the most dynamic of the upcoming generation of GOP statesmen, so at least give him the benefit of the doubt when he is trying to govern a deeply religious (Louisiana counties= parishes) state.

"Deeply religious," come on, more like deeply traditional, a lot like France, fancy churches, great cemeteries and themed holidays that come off more like a Bacchus celebration than a religious one. Graft and corruption that is legendary (and proud of it).

But "deeply religious," forget it.

79 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:07:40pm

re: #74 Hobbes

But, the MSM and over half the general public adore him.

Wait till he takes office and the Joe Biden prediction comes true, he gets tested, a bunch of us die, and he votes present. Pretty sure they might bitch about that a little. Unless the stock market goes up a lot that particular day.

80 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:07:40pm

re: #48 Hobbes

Did you vote in the last election?

He told us that he didn't.

81 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:07:42pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Really? You find Rahm Emanuel and Eric Holder sane and moderate? That is without commentary on his choice of Janet Napolitano and the virtuous Hillary Clinton. The only pick I am ok with thus far is Gates.

82 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:07:45pm

re: #75 VegasRick

For now.

The MSM will always adore him. They both live in the same sunshiny fantasy world.

83 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:07:48pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout
Obambi is in the proverbial between a rock and a hard place. He's getting what he considers experienced people for the real world and the kossaks and other lefty loons want their utopia NOW!

84 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:08:18pm

How is Barry's hawk-lite security team playing with the koskids and other assorted moonbats?

85 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:08:22pm

re: #70 pingjockey
Since so little of his genetics is African, I'll say, "....before a communist."

86 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:08:26pm

re: #33 druik

Newsflash: You're going to need the Religious Right to get another Republican in the White House, at leasts barring a >major< shift in the electorate.

Agreed. But a fellow believer who supports their cultural demands, without caving to them on magic, will be enough.

This Jindal guy looks to be the most dynamic of the upcoming generation of GOP statesmen, so at least give him the benefit of the doubt when he is trying to govern a deeply religious (Louisiana counties= parishes) state.

Uh, no. He's already earned a black mark for the "Science Education" Act. At this point it's up to him to redeem himself.

87 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:09pm

re: #85 RubyTuesday
Damn, that is more accurate for sure!

88 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:12pm

I would have loved Newt, he didn't run. I'm not for abandoning social conservatives but Jindal forced creationism on the schools and that is too big a deal to get him elected. That leaves Sarah, Huckabee, or Mitt, Giuliani won't have enough base support.

89 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:24pm

re: #78 Walter L. Newton
Broadbrushing again.

90 The Shadow Do  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:35pm

As much as the media would like to promote it, Jindal is not the future of the GOP. I have a hunch that a few years of Obama will lead a considerable number of people to rethink this whole fashionable youth thing. Depending on how bad it gets, yes even Newt could become viable.

91 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:40pm

re: #65 RubyTuesday

If Hillary and Sarah, who are ideologically polar opposites, poll with the same numbers, does this mean that America really isn't ready for a woman President?

I think a woman can win the Presidency now. All stops are off. That is one benefit of this past election. (Maybe the only one)

Hillary is hated with the same burning searing passion from the right as Palin is from the left. If we can find a less polarizing woman candidate, why couldn't she win? We just elected the least prepared, most radical person in modern history. After that, we can elect anyone from any background. And, that is way it should be, yes?

92 Truck Monkey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:59pm

re: #68 MarkX

I'm not so pessimistic... look where was Obama 5 years ago. 80% of America didn't know who he was...

The right guy/gal can emerge from "no where" with in the next four years. Chances are we've never heard of who will be the GOP candidate in '12.

The GOP definitely needs new blood.

I don't think we'll be looking for "no where" man after 4 years of "The One". We'll of had our fill of it by then.

93 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:09:59pm

Yoo hoo! LesLein, the phantom downdingleberry! Care to defend your choice of comments to slap, this time 'round? Might you agree with Jindal on "teaching the controversy"? Step on up and make your case!

...coward

94 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:10:03pm

re: #88 Rancher

Newt was asked the other day about a possible run in '12, and said he would be ' looking into it'.

95 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:10:16pm

In my view, the leadership of the GOP has underestimated the intelligence of its constituents. Conservatism is the ideology of nuance; it requires some economic and political knowledge to understand why what might appear to be "greed" (tax cuts for the top earners) benefits everyone. It also requires principle and a desire to learn to understand the reasoning behind the War in Iraq. There is material out there that defends the invasion succinctly and powerfully (War and Decision by Douglas J. Feith), but the Bush administration has done woefully little to promote and explain its decisions. Theoretically, a more informed electorate will tend to vote towards the right side of the political spectrum because they ought to be able to see through the economic policies of Congressional liberals, which as a rule of thumb means no codified policy at all.

The GOP needs to begin engaging their voters on a higher intellectual plane. Bobby Jindal is not the candidate to do that.

96 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:11:37pm

re: #84 tradewind

Here

97 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:11:46pm

re: #89 RubyTuesday

Broadbrushing again.

Don't bet on it. My mothers side of the family goes back to the 1600's in that area. Both Spanish and French. I'm rather familiar with both the people and the culture there.

98 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:11:55pm

Prefer him to Kat Blanco. Regardless of who the Republicans run in 2012 they will have detractors. Guess it depends on how much of an issue this has with the rest of the voters. Sort of like voters in Massachusetts voting for Teddy and returning him to office term after term, knowing that he effectively killed his pregnant girlfriend in a bout of (most likely) drunken driving.

99 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:11:55pm

re: #88 Rancher

I'll take Jindal over Huckabee any day of the week.

100 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:11:55pm

re: #93 Zimriel
I've been here over a year, how did you find the phantom down dinger?
Cripes, as much as I'm here you'd think I'd know that?!

101 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:12:17pm

The Republican party doesn't need a good candidate, they need a good vision for the future, not a laundry list of things they are against.

102 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:12:17pm

re: #91 Desert Dog

I hate to throw the cold water of reality on the Obama election, but, bi-racial as he may be in actuality , he was still elected because first and foremost, he was/ is seen as an African American. Never would have made it to the Senate in his district, never would have been nominated for democrat presidential run.

103 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:12:17pm

re: #93 Zimriel

Thank you for saying that. What a dweeb that person is.

104 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:12:58pm

re: #88 Rancher

I would have loved Newt, he didn't run. I'm not for abandoning social conservatives but Jindal forced creationism on the schools and that is too big a deal to get him elected. That leaves Sarah, Huckabee, or Mitt, Giuliani won't have enough base support.

I really like Newt too. But, he is a marked man from his days in the House. The Clinton machine chopped him down like a row of corn in October. He is super smart and a very good communicator. I would vote for him, no problem. But, he's kinda like Rudy.....there's not a skeleton in his closet, there's a graveyard.

105 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:12:59pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

You win the youth vote back by showing them how THEIR money goes away under a Dem regime - when you lay it out in black and white, it becomes rather eye opening. What is the quote? If you are conservative at 20 you have no heart, if you are not conservative at 30 you have no brain?

106 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:13:01pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Staying with Gates was great. I still wouldn't have voted for him but so far he looks like he is willing to abandon his base and many of his promises. If he turns out to be another Bill Clinton this country will be allot better off than if he is the Obama we thought we knew.

107 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:13:19pm

Why can't we just nominate Thomas Sowell and be done with it.

108 rawmuse  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:13:25pm

One thing I know is I'll take Louisiana's (or Alaska's) balance sheet over California's.

109 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:13:38pm

re: #102 tradewind

I hate to throw the cold water of reality on the Obama election, but, bi-racial as he may be in actuality , he was still elected because first and foremost, he was/ is seen as an African American. Never would have made it to the Senate in his district, never would have been nominated for democrat presidential run.

Of course he was....and, he used that to his advantage.

110 quickjustice  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:13:42pm

For Jindal to become a viable national candidate, he's going to have to backtrack on Intelligent Design. It'll be interesting to watch how and if he does that.

111 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:13:44pm

re: #91 Desert Dog
But don't we consider RWR "polarizing"? I mean, he was transparent with his beliefs and convictions, right? Hillary flipped and flopped around with the tides. At least Sarah was firm in her conservative convictions. Still, the negative numbers...

112 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:14:23pm

re: #106 Rancher

Jury is still out on the lightworker. He's picked up a nervous tic already and he hasn't assumed office.

113 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:14:25pm

#100 pingjockey, I caught it at MandyManners #51...

114 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:14:34pm

re: #104 Desert Dog

I really like Newt too. But, he is a marked man from his days in the House. The Clinton machine chopped him down like a row of corn in October. He is super smart and a very good communicator. I would vote for him, no problem. But, he's kinda like Rudy.....there's not a skeleton in his closet, there's a graveyard.

I like Newt as well - one of the few Socons I could vote for simply because he is able to talk about the future and where we should be going. This last election we ceded the future to the Dems.

115 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:14:47pm

re: #97 Walter L. Newton
I'm sure you are - each and every one of them.

116 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:14:53pm

re: #105 ArmyWife

You win the youth vote back by showing them how THEIR money goes away under a Dem regime - when you lay it out in black and white, it becomes rather eye opening. What is the quote? If you are conservative at 20 you have no heart, if you are not conservative at 30 you have no brain?

Churchill.

117 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:15:01pm

re: #106 Rancher

Staying with Gates was great. I still wouldn't have voted for him but so far he looks like he is willing to abandon his base and many of his promises. If he turns out to be another Bill Clinton this country will be allot better off than if he is the Obama we thought we knew.

So it will be the illusion of safety 1992-2000.

118 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:15:13pm

re: #101 Thanos

I can't see the Republican brand recovering, but my Pa says that I'm just young and naive.
I think we need to "Escape the Elephant."
If that sounds crazy, mind that I've been traveling all day.

119 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:15:21pm

re: #107 Gordon Marock

True 'dat!

120 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:15:31pm

re: #88 Rancher

I would have loved Newt, he didn't run. I'm not for abandoning social conservatives but Jindal forced creationism on the schools and that is too big a deal to get him elected. That leaves Sarah, Huckabee, or Mitt, Giuliani won't have enough base support.

Hey Rancher! Nice seeing you..
A few months ago how many lizards had even heard of Sarah? We have time to develop great talent in the next couple of years...Bobby J. won't make it out of single A ball..

121 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:16:07pm

re: #102 tradewind
Perception not equaling reality is going to be a beyotch down the line.

122 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:16:13pm

re: #113 Zimriel
Nah, how do you know who did it? Since the coward isn't commenting?

123 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:16:28pm

re: #110 quickjustice

Obama shook off Black Liberation theology.... 20 years' worth. Jindal oughta be able to shed some creationism-in-the-schools with equal ease.

124 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:16:35pm

re: #111 RubyTuesday

But don't we consider RWR "polarizing"? I mean, he was transparent with his beliefs and convictions, right? Hillary flipped and flopped around with the tides. At least Sarah was firm in her conservative convictions. Still, the negative numbers...

The entire MFM were out to get her from the beginnng. Even the entertainment wing of the MFM went after her.

125 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:16:53pm

....Does Jindal smoke "Kools"?

126 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:29pm

re: #118 Bumr50

I can see it, the Republicans have recovered every time they needed to in the past. This is a new century and a new millenium, we need to get out of our last century speak and mentality. The Dems stole a march on us because we fought them as if they were the same old tired nihilists.

127 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:31pm

The republicans lost because they were democrats lite. Stick to Reaganism and conservative values (i.e. small government) and they will be returned to office. Don't, and they become a postscript in history. Drop the Rinos.

128 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:41pm

re: #110 quickjustice

For Jindal to become a viable national candidate, he's going to have to backtrack on Intelligent Design. It'll be interesting to watch how and if he does that.

"How" is important. If he doesn't go before Louisiana's legislature and demand they repeal that act, then he's not worthy of our respect. No-one will let him weasel out with "personal opposition but I had to play ball".

129 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:44pm

re: #107 Gordon Marock

Why can't we just nominate Thomas Sowell and be done with it.

Certainly be fun to watch the MSM destroy him. Sowell isn't very smart you know.//

130 quickjustice  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:51pm

It's way too early to start looking at candidates. I'd like to know that the GOP is evolving into a competent, honest party that knows how to rebuild an economy. McCain could not answer the question: "How do we help the economy recover?"

131 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:54pm

re: #106 Rancher

If he turns out to be another Bill Clinton this country will be allot better off than if he is the Obama we thought we knew.


Agreed. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

132 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:17:58pm

re: #124 MandyManners

The entire MFM were out to get her from the beginnng. Even the entertainment wing of the MFM went after her.

Saturday Night Live was particularly disgraceful. I once counted ten Palin snarks in one night and only one joke that hinted at an Obama snark.

133 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:01pm

re: #117 NYCHardhat

The rumor is that Warren Buffet and some other econ guru sat him down and said ' you're gonna have to focus everything on the economy.... give the country to the Clintons'.
Sad if true.

134 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:05pm

re: #105 ArmyWife

I agree, but don't think that they'll be "shown" in time for 2012.
I think that the standard of living must fall markedly yet.

135 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:08pm

The GOP needs a codified policy set that can be backed up with a million and one studies. No more pandering to its voters; the American people are smart enough to know good ideas when they see them. And they'll vote for them.

136 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:16pm

pingjockey, clicking the number pulls up the record

137 coquimbojoe  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:28pm

I think teaching ID or opening the door to it being taught in school is a problem. That being said, I am willing to not yet pass judgment on Jindal. I want to see how he handles a corrupt state like Louisiana. Give him a few years. He might be great, or he might make the proverbial crater. I like about 75% of what I see.

138 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:31pm

re: #122 pingjockey

See who downdinged each post. #2 downdinged by leslien

139 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:38pm

My concern about Jindal, in addition to the creation fairy stories, is the fact that anyone who can go from being Hindu and converting to Catholicism really doesn't believe in anything, much less reality.

140 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:18:46pm
141 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:19:00pm

re: #124 MandyManners
Have you swapped the s in msm for that anglosaxon word for fornicate?

142 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:19:03pm

re: #124 MandyManners
Totally agree! I guess I didn't say it very well. Hillary was inconsistent due to the prevailing winds. Sarah was rock solid. Since when did the MSM or Hollyweird bet on the right horse?

143 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:19:37pm

re: #133 tradewind

The rumor is that Warren Buffet and some other econ guru sat him down and said ' you're gonna have to focus everything on the economy.... give the country to the Clintons'.
Sad if true.

Makes sense. The folks who gave him the billion dollars are running the country.

144 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:19:47pm

You have (unfortunately) 3 years to think about it. Right now Jindal is an interesting story but a non starter for president. Lets wait a while. Lots can happen.

145 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:19:58pm

re: #138 NYCHardhat

See who downdinged each post. #2 downdinged by leslien

LesLein is downdinging every anti-Jindal comment in the thread.

Hello? Is anyone there? Care to explain why?

146 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:20:09pm

re: #139 Gordon Marock

My concern about Jindal, in addition to the creation fairy stories, is the fact that anyone who can go from being Hindu and converting to Catholicism really doesn't believe in anything, much less reality.

He was born and raised in the US. First generation born often drop the religion their parents brought with them. Not a big issue.

147 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:20:16pm

re: #136 Zimriel
Thanks. Sheesh, I'm asleep at the computer!

148 3 wood  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:20:30pm

OT:

So far it looks like the market will open slightly up tomorrow. The futures are up at this point slightly, the Nikkei is down 375 points and the Hang Seng is up 220 points.

149 Hobbes  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:20:38pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Actually, so far I'm very impressed with Obama. His staffing picks have largely been practical level headed folks. If I knew he was capable of being sane and moderate I might have voted for him.

Watched Larry Kudlow tonight. Robert Reich was one of the guests. His views on how to save the economic problem is nothing more than Socialistic bulls**t.
With him on BHO's economic advisory team we can only expect disaster.

150 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:20:46pm

re: #138 NYCHardhat
Thanks to you too.

151 LesLein  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:21:02pm

It was Reagan who said that evolution was "just a theory." In 1984 it hurt him a great deal, costing him Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

But seriously folks, the GOP can't possibly win without the social conservatives. This crusade against them amounts to a circular firing squad. As bad as creationism is, it's less harmful than teaching students that humans cause catastrophic global warming, or that we should "spread the wealth."

Next year the Democrats will attempt to give the District of Columbia representation in Congress and implement card check. Instead of opposing these power grabs, let's go after our own side!

152 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:21:06pm

re: #147 pingjockey

Thanks. Sheesh, I'm asleep at the computer!

Wake up Ping! The threat alarm just went off!

153 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:21:07pm

re: #139 Gordon Marock

I believe the many many former Buddhists, Hindus, and other practicers of various Asian religions who are now among the most devout Christian converts would disagree with that.

154 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:21:14pm

re: #141 pingjockey

Have you swapped the s in msm for that anglosaxon word for fornicate?

Yep.

155 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:21:51pm

re: #142 RubyTuesday

Totally agree! I guess I didn't say it very well. Hillary was inconsistent due to the prevailing winds. Sarah was rock solid. Since when did the MSM or Hollyweird bet on the right horse?

They not only bet on horses, they help deliver the foal and raise it.

156 Charles  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:22:24pm

The WaPo didn't bring it up, but there's also that exorcism thing.

157 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:22:34pm

re: #155 MandyManners

But what they really love to do is shoot horses, don't they.....

158 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:22:51pm

re: #135 ClosetConservative

I must disagree that a majority of Americans are smart enough to recognize their backside from a rabid giraffe.
Perhaps the voting population, but with the MSM swaying unquestioning and ignorant minds doped up on sweeping generalities and "happy logic", I'm not willing to make that statement.
If I'm clear on anything after the last election, it's that this country is DANGEROUSLY stupid.

159 TaeJohnDo  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:23:07pm

re: #107 Gordon Marock

Why can't we just nominate Thomas Sowell and be done with it.

And Walter Williams as the Veep.

160 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:23:20pm

re: #156 Charles

Charles...
The mainstream Catholic church has a procedure..... rarely used, but taken very seriously..... for exorcism.

161 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:23:38pm

re: #151 LesLein

It was Reagan who said that evolution was "just a theory." In 1984 it hurt him a great deal, costing him Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

But seriously folks, the GOP can't possibly win without the social conservatives. This crusade against them amounts to a circular firing squad. As bad as creationism is, it's less harmful than teaching students that humans cause catastrophic global warming, or that we should "spread the wealth."

Next year the Democrats will attempt to give the District of Columbia representation in Congress and implement card check. Instead of opposing these power grabs, let's go after our own side!

Social Conservatism doesn't have to mean creationism just because that's where the dirty dollars with strings are. Give it up, he's a no go.

162 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:23:40pm
Is Bobby Jindal the next Barack Obama?

No.

163 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:23:41pm

re: #130 quickjustice

In his defense, I do not think anyone can quite understand the depth of the credit problems that the Acorn folks created with the mortgage mess on a global scale. How do we fix it now after the fact? Part of it will be "tincture of time", but I do not think there is a magic wand.

btw, oil is currently 48.79 on the nymx at 20:53 (1/2 hr delay) extended trading session. off 1%

164 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:23:51pm

re: #151 LesLein

It was Reagan who said that evolution was "just a theory." In 1984 it hurt him a great deal, costing him Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

But seriously folks, the GOP can't possibly win without the social conservatives. This crusade against them amounts to a circular firing squad. As bad as creationism is, it's less harmful than teaching students that humans cause catastrophic global warming, or that we should "spread the wealth."

Next year the Democrats will attempt to give the District of Columbia representation in Congress and implement card check. Instead of opposing these power grabs, let's go after our own side!

Be that is it may, you will NOT swing any of the 52% of the useful idiots over with Bobby Jindal as your candidate.

165 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:24:08pm

re: #151 LesLein

It was Reagan who said that evolution was "just a theory." In 1984 it hurt him a great deal, costing him Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

But seriously folks, the GOP can't possibly win without the social conservatives. This crusade against them amounts to a circular firing squad. As bad as creationism is, it's less harmful than teaching students that humans cause catastrophic global warming, or that we should "spread the wealth."

Next year the Democrats will attempt to give the District of Columbia representation in Congress and implement card check. Instead of opposing these power grabs, let's go after our own side!

Because creationism is as bad as the global warming nonsense it's somehow acceptable? Horsefeathers. It's WORSE because it is teaching a religious concept in a public school.

166 sngnsgt  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:24:21pm

re: #156 Charles

Oh, that'll go over just swell.

167 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:24:41pm

re: #157 tradewind

But what they really love to do is shoot horses, don't they.....

I never saw that movie.

168 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:25:44pm

re: #160 tradewind

Look, if you show me a 10 year old girl who can levitate a bed and make the earth shake, I will take you seriously. Until then, not so much.

169 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:25:52pm

If you want to win the South and lose the country, go ahead with Jindal. This isn't the '80s anymore when Reagan ran either. Lots of things have changed since then.

170 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:26:07pm

re: #167 MandyManners

Well, there's that. But I also meant that they just love to build up and then shoot down their faves.

171 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:26:12pm

re: #148 3 wood

OT:

So far it looks like the market will open slightly up tomorrow. The futures are up at this point slightly, the Nikkei is down 375 points and the Hang Seng is up 220 points.

Market kills me. Went down on the news we've been in a recession for a year....hello...a year? Most recessions have lasted about that long. Course this one is the worst since....lets hear it..............THE GREAT DEPRESSION..........well it was before Obama was elected. Now, not so much.

172 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:26:35pm

re: #151 LesLein
Teaching that creation is science is a crock. Teaching that MMGW is science is a crock. Unfortunetly, scientists(some) support MMGW. So that at least has some(bad) science, there is no science in creationism.

173 TaeJohnDo  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:26:50pm

re: #168 Gordon Marock

Look, if you show me a 10 year old girl who can levitate a bed and make the earth shake, I will take you seriously. Until then, not so much.

That was a younger Hillary in her formative years.

174 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:26:50pm

re: #165 MandyManners

The gorebots turned global warming into their religion. Worshiping mother gaia.

175 Paul Green  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:27:02pm

As one who traveled to a supposedly battleground state to help with the McCain campaign, I can say the strategists behind that campaign should not be listened to about anything. Instead of warning voters about Democrats who will tax them into penury, our phone-bank script promised to "rein in Wasington and Wall Street," and instead of attacking Obama on ACORN and his other radical-left associations, they put those chinks in his armor off-limits. The whole stinking bunch of them should be ridden out of the Republican Party on a rail.

176 right_on_target  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:27:07pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

He is failing on many grounds. He almost was recalled recently for signing an exorbitant pay raise for the legislature. He's not a very good reformer.


______________________________
He DIDN'T sign pay raise; he vetoed it, even after the legislature threatened to shut state government down.

177 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:27:40pm

re: #158 Bumr50

I don't intend to say that the voting populace can make informed decisions on its own. The GOP needs to kick the information machine into high gear. The only reason the Soviet Union survived as long as it did was because they could explain everything they did to all of their constituents- the populist rhetoric for the students, and the nuanced philosophy for the intellectuals. The difference between the Soviet Union and the GOP is that the GOP has good ideas.

178 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:27:48pm

re: #9 LoFlyer

What is the issue Charles? Jindal obviously supports educational debate of both theories. If Evolution is a strong theory, it will withstand the debate with flying colors!

Parroting the official DI "Teach the Controversy" line?

179 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:27:55pm

re: #151 LesLein

It was Reagan who said that evolution was "just a theory." In 1984 it hurt him a great deal, costing him Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

But seriously folks, the GOP can't possibly win without the social conservatives. This crusade against them amounts to a circular firing squad. As bad as creationism is, it's less harmful than teaching students that humans cause catastrophic global warming, or that we should "spread the wealth."

Next year the Democrats will attempt to give the District of Columbia representation in Congress and implement card check. Instead of opposing these power grabs, let's go after our own side!

First off, you haven't given a context for Reagan's quote, beyond an internet meme that I've seen elsewhere.

Second, not all social conservatives are creationists. The Pope is a so-con and he disavows creationism.

Third, I fail to see how your compulsing downdinging of posts with which you disagree, over something this debatable and which you yourself see as petty, will help Jindal. All it's done so far is make a bunch of lizards pissed at you.

180 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:27:59pm

re: #168 Gordon Marock

What is this ' take me seriously'? I haven't said a thing about my feelings pro or con, only that there is a sacrament within the Catholic church for dealing with it.
I'm not Catholic, btw.

181 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:28:08pm

re: #152 HoosierHoops
What, where? Get me my coffee and smokes! Can't chase rooshan subs without caffeine or nicotine!

182 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:28:32pm

Instead of looking for the candidat who could possibly win we need to put together the platform that can't lose.

183 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:28:33pm

re: #174 Perplexed

And out went the proper teaching of the Scientific Method as well.

184 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:28:36pm

re: #96 NYCHardhat

From your link, "coweringly religious"? WTF does that mean, afraid of hell? Anyway, the bloom is definately off the rose but Obama apparently knows that an America smashed economically under the burden of "share the wealth" or so decimated by Jihadists will not re-elect him. Watching the LLLs deal with this, well all I can say is: This is going to be great!

185 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:28:47pm

"We cannot survive as a free nation when some men decide that others are not fit to live and should be abandoned to abortion or infanticide"

" Society has always regarded marital love as a sacred expression of the bond between a man and a woman. It is the means by which families are created and society itself is extended into the future. In the Judeo-Christian tradition it is the means by which husband and wife participate with G-d in the creation of new human life. It is for these reasons, among others, that our society has always sought to protect this unique relationship. In par the erosion of these values has given way to a celebration of forms of expression most reject. We will resist the efforts of some to obtain government endorsement of homosexuality"

Ronald Reagan.

(Could it be that Reagan had a stand and could articulate it rather than checking the current wind direction for his "thoughts"?)

186 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:29:07pm

re: #170 tradewind

Well, there's that. But I also meant that they just love to build up and then shoot down their faves.

Hillary. McCain. I'm waiting to see what they do to CBBHO.

187 LesLein  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:29:09pm

re: #93 Zimriel

Yoo hoo! LesLein, the phantom downdingleberry! Care to defend your choice of comments to slap, this time 'round? Might you agree with Jindal on "teaching the controversy"? Step on up and make your case!

...coward

I'm sorry. I thought it was a free country. If you're reduced to name calling, try to be original.

188 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:29:25pm

re: #174 Perplexed

The gorebots turned global warming into their religion. Worshiping mother gaia.

It's not the same.

189 Opinionated  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:29:33pm

My very subjective opinion is that- notwithstanding anything else- Jindal lacks the requisite charisma.

190 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:29:34pm

The problem may be not so much the candidate, but the electorate.
It may take a drastic event or crisis to shake 'em up.

191 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:00pm

re: #180 tradewind

Sorry! I was assuming from the statement "which is taken sersiously. . ." that you were among the serious takers.

192 theheat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:12pm

As long as the GOP restricts its POTUS shopping to the Crazy aisle, they're going to be rejected by voters. At least, rejected by a majority, the enough-to-win kind of majority. The diehard far right voters will support them, no matter how far out in the stratosphere they're from, but I don't see mainstream America embracing all the craziness that comes with the package.

Yeah, and Bobby Jindal is in that category, for sure. No thanks. They have to do better than that, or have another four years after 2012 to either find someone crazier, or figure out religious crazy ain't selling.

I was hoping they would figure that out before the next election.

193 Wishing  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:13pm

We have to forget the entire social platform: abortion, for now, is legal. It is a no win battle. Creationism is a religious concept not a scientific one. It is a dumb battle. What will win votes is real conservatism: small government, lower taxes, personal responsibility, high expectations. This message is a winner, every time.
Jindal's baggage will compromise and diffuse the message we want to convey.

194 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:14pm

re: #182 Thanos

Instead of looking for the candidat who could possibly win we need to put together the platform that can't lose.

Perfectly stated

195 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:43pm

My bet's on Bryan. Jindal in 2012 will lose big time.

Bryan was one of those perennial candidates.... but his very public stance in the Scopes Monkey Trial killed him. He died six days after the trial ended, possibly of overexertion in the heat of the Tennessee summer.

The guilty verdict was overturned on a technicality.

196 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:55pm
197 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:30:56pm

re: #186 MandyManners

He does have one built-in shield, they're terrified of anything that could be translated into racism by some erstwhile Al Sharpton character or other, if not Big Al hisself.

198 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:31:04pm

re: #95 ClosetConservative

. . .

The GOP needs to begin engaging their voters on a higher intellectual plane. Bobby Jindal is not the candidate to do that.

You are correct - he is not the candidate.

199 shiplord kirel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:31:17pm

True story:

There is a contract worker in our building, a security guard. Unusually for people in that occupation, he is a lefty and a media conformist. He knows all the TV shows and pop-stars. He loves his gadget infested telephone. He backed Obama to the hilt and could regurgitate the talking points verbatim. He "knows" that terrorism is our fault because Bush has caused the whole world to hate us.

Incredible though it may seem, I got along pretty well with him. I respect working people and I am careful to avoid using my position to browbeat employees. Not being able to let it go entirely, though, I decided to loan him some books and get together a reading list that might open his eyes to other points of view. He seemed uncomfortable when I suggested this. After a puzzling back and forth, he blurted out the truth: He cannot read well enough to understand books or even the daily newspaper. He said that he has never read a book or an article in his life. He does his reports by careful use of a standard form, a dictionary, and a sympathetic supervisor. He was dyslexic, he went to school in California, and he was passed through all the way to graduation without learning anything. His political ideology comes from the media and his moonbat mother.

I did persuade him to get in touch with some folks who might help with his dyslexia and that is where matters stand.

200 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:31:23pm

re: #151 LesLein

I got news for you. The Gipper didn't stand a chance at winning Minnesota.

201 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:31:43pm

re: #184 Rancher

From your link, "coweringly religious"? WTF does that mean, afraid of hell? Anyway, the bloom is definately off the rose but Obama apparently knows that an America smashed economically under the burden of "share the wealth" or so decimated by Jihadists will not re-elect him. Watching the LLLs deal with this, well all I can say is: This is going to be great!

I got a lawn chair and a cooler of beers. Care to join me?

202 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:31:53pm

re: #184 Rancher

I've been told this feeling I have is called schadenfreude.

Whatever it is, I like it.

203 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:32:34pm

re: #183 Bumr50

And out went the proper teaching of the Scientific Method as well.

Throwing out scientific method had to be done. Use scientific method and you might get results you might not like. Sort of what NASA was recently caught doing by cooking the numbers on global temperatures.

204 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:32:35pm

re: #194 Bloodnok

Perfectly stated

Except.. A platform has never won a presidential election..Only the Candidate.

205 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:32:41pm

re: #174 Perplexed

The gorebots turned global warming into their religion. Worshiping mother gaia.

I don't think Gore and the Gorebots really worship "mother gaia." Gore is using these pithy, nonsensical global warming scare tactics for his own self-aggrandizement. Not because he really cares about the earth or what happens to it.

206 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:04pm

re: #182 Thanos
Yes! Those are the words I was trying to put together! No more Rock Star...but someone rock solid. There's time - look at all the Repubs from everywhere. There's someone who will fit the times. Let's not grab up someone in desperation. Country, conservatives first.

207 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:15pm

re: #165 MandyManners

Because creationism is as bad as the global warming nonsense it's somehow acceptable? Horsefeathers. It's WORSE because it is teaching a religious concept in a public school.

Mandy, I have to disagree. The cult of global warming has ensnared our energy and economic policy and could conceivably cripple both. Creationism added to a general science curriculum as an alternative theory would take up less than half a day's lesson on origins of the universe. Yes, I agree that it doesn't belong in a science classroom in a public school, but seriously, most basic high school science curricula include physical science, earth science, and biology, none of which spends a lot of time on the origins of the universe anyway.

208 hermit  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:15pm

Okay, lemme see if I got this...forgive me if someone brought this up.

Somebody thinks it would be a good idea to go from Chicago politicians to Louisiana politicians....

WTF!?!?!? No wonder some folks don't believe in forward evolution, we'd freakin REGRESS back into the political slime!

Why don't we just hire a roofing company for president...

209 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:24pm

re: #198 reine.de.tout

I think Palin falls into the same category. They are cut from the same cloth. Conservatives have become wary of intellectuals in favor of simple country charm.

210 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:34pm

The GOP needs to realise that some cultural trends are not mere fads. Jindal seems to be swimming in the wrong direction.

211 The Shadow Do  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:37pm

re: #169 Thanos

If you want to win the South and lose the country, go ahead with Jindal. This isn't the '80s anymore when Reagan ran either. Lots of things have changed since then.

As a Southerner, I doubt he could even carry the South. He ran against a patently corrupt administration in LA and won. No vision, no magic in it. Hope he does well but he is not the future of the Party.

212 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:39pm

re: #205 gclaghorn

ka-Ching.
Bullseye.

213 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:44pm

re: #194 Bloodnok

Problem is, we have lines that we refuse to cross on principle.

They just move theirs whenever convenient.

It's a conundrum.

214 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:50pm

All meteor starts in space as a bolide, when it reaches our atmosphere, it is then a meteor, and then it finally explodes and breaks up into little pieces, meteorites.

Jindal will follow this same pattern.

215 poopeedoo  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:33:56pm

re: #93 Zimriel

Let's remember to play nice.

216 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:07pm

re: #187 LesLein

I'm sorry. I thought it was a free country. If you're reduced to name calling, try to be original.

See, I downding comments that are obviously wrong and/or ignorant. Unfortunately, you tend to downding everything you don't agree with. Well, good for you.

217 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:25pm

re: #156 Charles

I guess I just don't care about personal beliefs like this, so long as I am not forced to follow suit. My Granddaddy was a staunch Catholic - exorcism and all. He was also an incredible person with a life story that reads like a movie script (ran away at 14, made it 3/4s through medical school, then dropped out to join the Army, rode a horse in the 1st Cav, retired as a Colonel). He also felt the theory of evolution was most probably spot on - but understood there are things we simply don't know yet and things we must turn over to faith (outside of evolution). I don't want a litmus test. That isn't true, I want an ethical litmus test (see ya, Huckabee), not a religious (or anti-religious) litmus test.

218 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:27pm

re: #160 tradewind

Charles...
The mainstream Catholic church has a procedure..... rarely used, but taken very seriously..... for exorcism.

Yeah, exorcism is taken seriously because the Church is stuck with it. The Gospels feature a lot of exorcisms, and even the Jesus Seminar agrees that Jesus probably did a few. (There are a number of canonical Jewish sages, like Hanina b. Dosa, who also did exorcisms IIRC; so the rabbis at least can't laugh at us too much.)

The Church has surrounded this rite with a lot of bureaucracy so that you can't just ring up your neighbourhood Priest when your kid is acting weird. I mean, by all means try it, but he'll just refer you to counselling. Exorcism will not be high on the troubleshooting list. The Church just doesn't want this headache, especially when so many cases of "weird" behaviour are curable with a few pleasant chats and/or medication.

219 JacksonTn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:30pm

re: #67 kansas

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to become a Democrat and try to move the party to the right a bit. What the hell?

I would say from they way they both were treated that's exactly what that means.

If you are serious ...you can have them ...my entire family left the democrats this year after three generations ...if you think there is a chance in hell of getting the democrats to go towards the right you are dreaming ...the whole agenda for this election via Howard Dean and Obama thugs was to purge the party of center right democrats ...we will NEVER go back ...

220 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:40pm

re: #112 Perplexed

Jury is still out on the lightworker. He's picked up a nervous tic already and he hasn't assumed office.

Really? LOL!

221 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:40pm

Look, Global Warming is Science, the globe warms, then it cools, then it warms, then it cools, again and again and again until one day the Sun's Corona expands and engulfs the Earth as a Red Giant. Yikes! now I scared myself.

222 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:48pm

re: #208 hermit

Why don't we just hire a roofing company for president...


Ha!

223 BignJames  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:34:53pm

re: #202 Bumr50

Beats jockitch I guess.

224 rawmuse  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:35:04pm

Exorcism is no big deal to me.
Catholics and Episcopalians also drink little cups of grape juice and call it the "blood of Christ".
Is that any less supernatural than an exorcism?

225 The Shadow Do  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:35:07pm

re: #175 Paul Green

As one who traveled to a supposedly battleground state to help with the McCain campaign, I can say the strategists behind that campaign should not be listened to about anything. Instead of warning voters about Democrats who will tax them into penury, our phone-bank script promised to "rein in Wasington and Wall Street," and instead of attacking Obama on ACORN and his other radical-left associations, they put those chinks in his armor off-limits. The whole stinking bunch of them should be ridden out of the Republican Party on a rail.

Time to throw your hat in Paul

226 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:35:15pm

re: #199 shiplord kirel

You have changed his life for the better. He may resent that fact once his reading skills sharpen up and he finds his world has come undone. But you did him a favor.

Thank you.

227 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:35:15pm

re: #196 buzzsawmonkey

the global warming religion, masquerading as science, bids fair to destroy the economy if measures are enacted by the voting public to advance this belief. Creationism, though it too has a deleterious effect if taught as science, will not have the same immediate drastic effects.

I hadn't thought about the immediacy of the damages on our economy of teaching the pseudoscience of global warming. I'd forgotten it's the Communists' new tool.

228 TaeJohnDo  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:35:36pm

re: #199 shiplord kirel

True story:

There is a contract worker in our building, a security guard. Unusually for people in that occupation, he is a lefty and a media conformist. He knows all the TV shows and pop-stars. He loves his gadget infested telephone. He backed Obama to the hilt and could regurgitate the talking points verbatim. He "knows" that terrorism is our fault because Bush has caused the whole world to hate us.

Incredible though it may seem, I got along pretty well with him. I respect working people and I am careful to avoid using my position to browbeat employees. Not being able to let it go entirely, though, I decided to loan him some books and get together a reading list that might open his eyes to other points of view. He seemed uncomfortable when I suggested this. After a puzzling back and forth, he blurted out the truth: He cannot read well enough to understand books or even the daily newspaper. He said that he has never read a book or an article in his life. He does his reports by careful use of a standard form, a dictionary, and a sympathetic supervisor. He was dyslexic, he went to school in California, and he was passed through all the way to graduation without learning anything. His political ideology comes from the media and his moonbat mother.

I did persuade him to get in touch with some folks who might help with his dyslexia and that is where matters stand.

Proving the soft bigotry of low expectations and the conservative ideal of helping by facing the truth and solving the problem. One upding for you.

229 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:36:09pm

re: #224 rawmuse

I need a cookie.

230 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:36:18pm

re: #143 NYCHardhat

I misspoke. What I actually think was said was ' you will have to focus everything on the economy, and give foreign policy to the Clintons '.
You obviously got that, but I needed to clarify.

231 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:36:25pm

re: #197 tradewind

He does have one built-in shield, they're terrified of anything that could be translated into racism by some erstwhile Al Sharpton character or other, if not Big Al hisself.

Well, there is that. However, if they really believe this is a post-racial era, they might get tired of being told they're racists for raising mere questions about his actions and policies.

232 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:36:25pm
Jindal: Political Meteor or Meteorite?

Neither. Just a political crater waiting to happen.

233 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:36:33pm

re: #199 shiplord kirel

True story:

There is a contract worker in our building, a security guard. ...I did persuade him to get in touch with some folks who might help with his dyslexia and that is where matters stand.

Mensch

234 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:36:45pm

re: #218 Zimriel

Sounds reasonable to me.

235 Hobbes  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:37:23pm

re: #75 VegasRick

For now.

I don't think that will change. The MSM is all ready giving him outs before he's even officially President. The mantra is..."this is one of the worst national, world, you name it, situations for an incoming President ".... blah, blah, blah. There is no way THEIR Man is not going to succeed. And, most of the general public get their information from the MSM. I think Obama being elected proves that. They don't do the research. They want someone else to do it for them. Thus, the MSM. Why else, besides he was black, would an inexperienced Community Organizer from Chicago win!

236 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:37:28pm

re: #224 rawmuse

Exorcism is no big deal to me.
Catholics and Episcopalians also drink little cups of grape juice and call it the "blood of Christ".
Is that any less supernatural than an exorcism?

Look, pal, I was brought up in a real Episcopal Church, and it was Cream Sherry all the way. Grape Juice, Ha!

237 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:37:33pm

If democrats continue to be allowed to look like the party of fiscal restraint, republicans are going to lose. As long as republicans want to act like drunken liberals with the money of the American people, we will lose.

238 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:37:47pm

re: #207 goddessoftheclassroom

Mandy, I have to disagree. The cult of global warming has ensnared our energy and economic policy and could conceivably cripple both. Creationism added to a general science curriculum as an alternative theory would take up less than half a day's lesson on origins of the universe. Yes, I agree that it doesn't belong in a science classroom in a public school, but seriously, most basic high school science curricula include physical science, earth science, and biology, none of which spends a lot of time on the origins of the universe anyway.

I hadn't thought about the effects of both.

239 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:37:51pm

re: #230 tradewind

I misspoke. What I actually think was said was ' you will have to focus everything on the economy, and give foreign policy to the Clintons '.
You obviously got that, but I needed to clarify.

Clinton and foreign policy is an oxymoron.

240 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:37:58pm

re: #219 JacksonTn

If you are serious ...you can have them ...my entire family left the democrats this year after three generations ...if you think there is a chance in hell of getting the democrats to go towards the right you are dreaming ...the whole agenda for this election via Howard Dean and Obama thugs was to purge the party of center right democrats ...we will NEVER go back ...

Well, it was a thought. Maybe if we all converted to Dhimmicrat we could influence the primary outcome. Then again maybe not. I have noted that Dhims from my area, notably Claire McCaskill and Kathleen Sebelius tend to get nuts when they go national.

241 JHW  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:38:09pm

re: #158 Bumr50

Sadly, I believe you're right. Check out this survey, one-third of citizens and one-third of elected officials didn't even know who we fought in WW2 among other things. College graduates did disgracefully poor on these basic citizenship questions.
Civic Literacy Report

Almost unbelievable it could be this bad. This was one of the conclusions of the report;

Finding 4:
Television—Including TV News—Dumbs America Down

ISI examined whether other factors add to or subtract from civic literacy and how they compare with the impact of college. The survey revealed that in today’s technological age, all else remaining equal, a person’s test score drops in proportion to the time he or she spends using certain types of passive electronic media. Talking on the phone, watching owned or rented movies, and monitoring TV news broadcasts and documentaries diminish a respondent’s civic literacy.

In contrast to these negative influences, the civic knowledge gained from the inexpensive combination of engaging in frequent conversations about public affairs, reading about current events and history, and participating in more involved civic activities is greater than the gain from an expensive bachelor’s degree alone.

242 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:38:15pm

re: #205 gclaghorn

Gore is a closet capitalist and has used Global Warming to earn a boatload of cash. Let's see how willing he is to spread it to us, now. If he sends me 1/3 of his earnings on this crap, I will personally replace every light bulb in my house with those curly ones AND drive a Prius. Ok, maybe not a Prius, but a Hybrid Escalade, maybe.

243 rawmuse  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:38:24pm

re: #237 Sharmuta

They spent like crack whores with a week to live.

244 Salamantis  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:38:35pm

re: #9 LoFlyer

What is the issue Charles? Jindal obviously supports educational debate of both theories. If Evolution is a strong theory, it will withstand the debate with flying colors!

There is no debate in the scientific community; evolution holds all the evidentiary cards. Do not mistake creationist whingeing for genuine debate.

245 wolfie  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:38:53pm

I'm not very interested in the 2012 presidential election. I think the GOP should work on a common sense platform to provide for a strong defense and to restore fiscal sanity, small government, and Constitutional federalism.
As far as elections go, they should concentrate on Congressional elections and on getting good young people into state offices.

246 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:39:02pm

re: #224 rawmuse

Exorcism is no big deal to me.
Catholics and Episcopalians also drink little cups of grape juice and call it the "blood of Christ".
Is that any less supernatural than an exorcism?

RC and Anglicans drink wine. Methodists and Baptists drink grape juice. I'm not sure about other denominations.

Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation; Protestants believe in symbolic consubstantiation.

Didn't someone say that Satan's greatest achievement was convincing people that he didn't exist>

247 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:39:14pm

re: #112 Perplexed

Jury is still out on the lightworker. He's picked up a nervous tic already and he hasn't assumed office.

Victor Davis Hanson calls Obama's campaign the biggest bait-and-switch in American political history.

I think we are slowly (and things of course could change) beginning in retrospect to look back at the outline of one of most profound bait-and-switch campaigns in our political history, predicated on the mass appeal of a magnetic leader rather than any principles per se. He out-Clintoned Hillary and followed Bill's 1992 formula: A young Democrat runs on youth, popular appeal and charisma, claims the incumbent Bush caused another Great Depression and blew Iraq, and then went right down the middle with a showy leftist veneer.

It gets better:

In short, given all that, Obama's victory (predicated on painting Bush as a Hoover/Nixon redux), more so even than perhaps a John McCain's, may do more for Bush's reputation that anyone ever imagined. And the Mumbai mess (over there, not here) will only empasize all this, as an array of old 9/11-era experts who used to warn us about radical Islam, then, in the subsequent respite at home, screamed that Bush fabricated a war against terror against bogeymen, and now in their third manifestation are paraded once more out to warn us about?—why, yes, radical Islam!

248 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:39:24pm

re: #231 MandyManners

Post-racial is such a red herring. We won't have a post-racial world or, alternatively, country, until intermarriage is universal and all the kiddies are basically variations of the same shade. It's just a human failing.... different is.... different. We obviously can get past this on a one to one basis, and form friendships and relationships that transcend race, which is it should be. But there are still the issues of Them and Us that permeate society. Don't know what the answer is.

249 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:39:38pm

re: #242 ArmyWife

Gore is a closet capitalist and has used Global Warming to earn a boatload of cash. Let's see how willing he is to spread it to us, now. If he sends me 1/3 of his earnings on this crap, I will personally replace every light bulb in my house with those curly ones AND drive a Prius. Ok, maybe not a Prius, but a Hybrid Escalade, maybe.

Here's a picture of Gore's office:

[Link: www.commonplacebook.com...]

I hope he recycles all of those papers! And those monitors had better be environment-friendly!

/snark

250 Bloodnok  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:39:53pm

re: #204 HoosierHoops

Except.. A platform has never won a presidential election..Only the Candidate.

I'm not sure it is possible for the Republicans can field a candidate that can please the base, please the fiscal conservatives (who are not Socons) and win Independents and moderates. No one candidate can do that anymore. In the 80's yes, now maybe not. The platform needs to be redefined and some ideas may not make the cut.

251 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:40:33pm

re: #236 Gordon Marock

You're so right... I read that and thought, Hah! I'm a cradle Episcopalian, and that grape juice is some primo grappa.

252 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:41:42pm

re: #243 rawmuse

They spent like crack whores with a week to live.

Yes- we handed our butts on a silver platter to the dems. It was easy for them to paint themselves as the party of responsibility considering the msm was more than willing to help push that meme. If people want politicians to act like democrats- they'll elect the real thing and not an imitation.

253 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:41:50pm

re: #251 tradewind

You're so right... I read that and thought, Hah! I'm a cradle Episcopalian, and that grape juice is some primo grappa.

That stuff makes me hallucinate

254 rawmuse  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:41:57pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

I need a cookie.

You need a good Baptist dunking.

255 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:02pm

re: #249 gclaghorn

Here's a picture of Gore's office:

[Link: www.commonplacebook.com...]

I hope he recycles all of those papers! And those monitors had better be environment-friendly!

/snark

Is that the office where he invented the Internet? It certainly looks like the mother ship.

256 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:09pm

re: #249 gclaghorn

You should see his farm on the Caney Fork. I have.
An environmental nightmare, or at least it was a few years ago.

257 BignJames  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:20pm

re: #246 goddessoftheclassroom

RC and Anglicans drink wine. Methodists and Baptists drink grape juice. I'm not sure about other denominations.

Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation; Protestants believe in symbolic consubstantiation.

Didn't someone say that Satan's greatest achievement was convincing people that he didn't exist>

Kevin Spacey's character in "Usual Suspects"

258 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:41pm

re: #253 NYCHardhat

It's just a teensy, weensy sip.

259 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:45pm

re: #124 MandyManners

The entire MFM were out to get her from the beginnng. Even the entertainment wing of the MFM went after her.

She has withstood an incredible onslaught and survived, unlike poor Newt, the Grinch who stole Christmas.

260 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:47pm

re: #251 tradewind

Yeah, as an acolyte, we got to help slug down the leftovers. That was no grape juice.

261 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:42:48pm

re: #257 BignJames

Kevin Spacey's character in "Usual Suspects"

Kaiser Soze.

262 wolfie  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:43:22pm

re: #182 Thanos

Instead of looking for the candidat who could possibly win we need to put together the platform that can't lose.

I second that motion!

263 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:43:28pm

re: #207 goddessoftheclassroom

Mandy, I have to disagree. The cult of global warming has ensnared our energy and economic policy and could conceivably cripple both. Creationism added to a general science curriculum as an alternative theory would take up less than half a day's lesson on origins of the universe. Yes, I agree that it doesn't belong in a science classroom in a public school, but seriously, most basic high school science curricula include physical science, earth science, and biology, none of which spends a lot of time on the origins of the universe anyway.

See... I say that's a problem. Schools should teach the origins of the universe, the creation of the solar system, Kepler, Galileo, dinosaurs, evolution, ... all of it. They tiptoe around a lot of this because they don't want the headache of angry parents and then votes to cut school funding. So now most kids think "science is boring" except for the kids who (like me) read on their own.

We are now seeing the effects of inadequate science education in the previous generation.

264 BignJames  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:43:49pm

re: #261 NYCHardhat

Kaiser Soze.

aka Verbal

265 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:06pm

re: #259 Rancher

She has withstood an incredible onslaught and survived, unlike poor Newt, the Grinch who stole Christmas.

In my opinion she has not survived as a viable national candidate. Its still like whack a mole. Every time she surfaces Leno and Letterman whack her.

266 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:18pm

re: #248 tradewind

Post-racial is such a red herring. We won't have a post-racial world or, alternatively, country, until intermarriage is universal and all the kiddies are basically variations of the same shade. It's just a human failing.... different is.... different. We obviously can get past this on a one to one basis, and form friendships and relationships that transcend race, which is it should be. But there are still the issues of Them and Us that permeate society. Don't know what the answer is.

Maybe we're best at just muddling along, doing our best every day in every way.

267 RickJ  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:20pm

maybe the religious folks should readjust what they are looking for in schools. Obviously you can't teach religion at public school anymore. (although we all used to say the Lord's Prayer and go through some Bible reading in the early grades years ago)

Instead they need to teach their beliefs at home and at religious centers and keep an eye on schools so they don't overstep.

I say overstep because "evolution" can take on a religious certainty at times about things that aren't well understood and can't be or aren't yet known. If we think we know everything about how life and matter have come into existence, then we are fools and while there are without a doubt religious fools , there are no shortage of fools on the other side.

268 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:27pm

re: #255 Walter L. Newton

Is that the office where he invented the Internet? It certainly looks like the mother ship.

Shhhh! Don't make fun of him! He has been gracious enough to let us hang out here, and if you make the Overlord angry, he may cut us all off from the interweb!

/

269 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:30pm

My candidate for Attorney General:
Cobb: We're gonna give you a fair trial, followed by a first class hanging.

270 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:40pm

re: #257 BignJames

Kevin Spacey's character in "Usual Suspects"

They stole it from C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters.

271 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:44:50pm

re: #196 buzzsawmonkey

I, for one, object to the pseudoscientific sciento-religion of global warming being taught in a public school with a fervor at least equal to my objections to creationism. Why "at least equal"? Because to the extent there is any science to global warming, it should be taught as something about which there is a healthy scientific debate--for there are scientists on both sides, even though I happen to believe that one side is dead wrong.

Creationism is not science, and has no place in a science curriculum. Arguably, global warming has--but taught as a received wisdom, i.e., a religion, it does students, and science, as deep a disservice as teaching creationism does. Furthermore, the indoctrination of the young into the sciento-religion of global warming will have a far more deleterious effect, far more immediately and directly, upon this nation than the teaching of creationism, for the global warming religion, masquerading as science, bids fair to destroy the economy if measures are enacted by the voting public to advance this belief. Creationism, though it too has a deleterious effect if taught as science, will not have the same immediate drastic effects.

The Sydney Morning Herald recently called global warmenism a "fundamentalist religion."

As the Czech President, Vaclav Klaus, an economist, anti-totalitarian and climate change sceptic, prepares to take up the rotating presidency of the European Union next year, climate alarmists are doing their best to traduce him.

The New York Times opened a profile of Klaus, 67, this week with a quote from a 1980s communist secret agent's report, claiming he behaves like a "rejected genius", and asserts there is "palpable fear" he will "embarrass" the EU.

But the real fear driving climate alarmists wild is that a more rational approach to the fundamentalist religion of global warming may be in the ascendancy - whether in the parliamentary offices of the world's largest trading bloc or in the living rooms of Blacktown.

272 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:45:18pm

re: #259 Rancher

She has withstood an incredible onslaught and survived, unlike poor Newt, the Grinch who stole Christmas.

Newt's divorce helped him do himself in.

273 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:45:24pm

We need to look ahead and get out of the defensive stance we had to adapt in mid '05 to defend the ongoing war effort in Iraq. Where the left used to be reactive prisoner to the 24 hour news cycle, we've switched positions with them and become the same sort -- looking for a silver bullet in the next day's papers. That's not going to happen - we need to get out of defensive mode and go offense and persist. We've already lost most everything, we have nothing left to loose by looking ahead and taking strides forward.

In 2012 Iraq will be over but for the historians. Possibly Afghanistan will be as well. There will be new threats, and they will be different. Who in the party is looking at that? Every part of the party needs to challenge themselves, what are they doing exactly for tomorrow's children?

274 BignJames  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:45:47pm

re: #270 goddessoftheclassroom

They stole it from C.S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters.


damn thieves

275 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:45:57pm

re: #224 rawmuse

Neither to me.
I often guess that my own personal separation of spirituality from any science in which the logic, mathematics, or limitations of this reality cause me confusion when confronted with other folks who have such a hard time with stuff like this. I like what I've seen of Jindal, and I am disappointed to learn of his voting to include creationism in public school curricula.
But if you wanna exorcise on your down time, ain't no thing here.

276 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:46:25pm

re: #242 ArmyWife

I have a hybrid Highlander, and it is a great car. I had had two of them before, the regular models, and was curious and just saw no reason not to try one. It's great in town.
Those damn lightbulbs, though...... I will use them in the garage. I will use 'em in the attic. But dammit if I will put them in my good lamps in the living room, or eat by them.
No matter how they try to camo them, they just cast an ugly light.

277 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:47:06pm

re: #241 JHW
I missed 4.

278 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:47:10pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Actually, so far I'm very impressed with Obama. His staffing picks have largely been practical level headed folks. If I knew he was capable of being sane and moderate I might have voted for him.

I agree. Have you seen this speech he gave earlier this year on the subject of secularism and religion? I was impressed.

279 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:47:39pm

re: #256 tradewind

You should see his farm on the Caney Fork. I have.
An environmental nightmare, or at least it was a few years ago.

What I think is funny is that Bush's ranch in Texas is far more eco-friendly than Gore's TN mansion.

280 JHW  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:48:21pm

re: #277 pingjockey

You're far ahead of the rest of the country then, I believe that puts you in the highest percentile.

281 Drained Brain  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:48:41pm

In my pre-retirement years I was a right-wing high school principal in Canada of all places (not an easy place to be right wing). Our science department head was a typical left-wing unionist type (strong NDP for any Canuck readers). He was a Darwinist (is that the term?) and the more he evangelized about it the more skeptical I became. Can't folks just be agnostic about a few things? Can't there be a little live-and-let-live on the topic to give some of us a chance to let our views evolve?

Just a thought...

282 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:48:48pm

re: #267 RickJ

I was about to ding you up, then I read this:

I say overstep because "evolution" can take on a religious certainty at times about things that aren't well understood and can't be or aren't yet known. If we think we know everything about how life and matter have come into existence, then we are fools and while there are without a doubt religious fools , there are no shortage of fools on the other side.

Who is saying such things? Most of the scientists I've read have not, nor would not say such a thing- it would be unscientific for them to do so.

283 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:49:02pm

re: #271 Steffan

The real fear stems from Al Gore thinking he might not collect the hundreds of millions from the carbon trading companies and schemes he has bought in to. That is why gore's tone will become more and more strident despite the mounting contrary evidence. In order to have cap and trade, someone must facilitate the trading.

284 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:49:09pm

re: #279 Steffan
From reading about how the Crawford ranch was built, it's night and day. It's like North and South Korea.
Sigh. ...... the hypocrisy......

285 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:49:17pm

re: #279 Steffan

What I think is funny is that Bush's ranch in Texas is far more eco-friendly than Gore's TN mansion.

Did you see that on MSNBC? Just kiddin, I know it was Couric that reported it...oh wait.......

286 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:49:21pm

re: #270 goddessoftheclassroom
Oh goodness, another one of those eeeeeeevil Christians!

287 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:49:25pm

re: #265 kansas

In my opinion she has not survived as a viable national candidate. Its still like whack a mole. Every time she surfaces Leno and Letterman whack her.

That may actually be proof she is a viable national candidate -- why would they bother if they didn't fear her?

288 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:49:33pm

re: #272 MandyManners

Newt's ethical compass had some moments of disorientation. If he was a lib it wouldn't matter - heck, look at the parade of freaks in the Dem column what with their male protistution rings, piles of frozen cash and affairs with younger girls - some of whom found dead in parks, others on their knees in the Oval Office. The Libs circle the wagons around their freaks, we kick ours to the curb.

289 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:04pm

If talking up the GOP's chances for the next election helps them sleep, well, good on them.

The fact of the matter is, it doesnt matter squat, you have Obama for 4 years, starting 20th Jan, (yesterday, if you talk to The Man).

290 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:10pm

Whoever the Republicans manage to find next time around, I they run "for" something, not "against" something. We need to find our bearings, get back to basics and a viable plan to implement it. McCain was so muddled, nobody knew what he stood for. Of course, Obama was the most vaporous candidate ever....so, if you look good and speak well, you can run and win standing for nothing. I do not see anyone with those skills on out side. So, let's just use something we know is good....our core beliefs. They are what will win back the Congress and the Presidency.....not bending over backwards to be like the Democrats.

291 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:20pm

re: #279 Steffan

What I think is funny is that Bush's ranch in Texas is far more eco-friendly than Gore's TN mansion.

Right here.

292 gringotipico  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:21pm

I don't dislike Gov. Jindal, but I don't see what all these pundits are having wet dreams about... Seems like they're BARELY a step up from the Palin 2012 crowd.

293 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:21pm

re: #275 Bumr50

... But if you wanna exorcise on your down time, ain't no thing here.

Well, I'll say it right here, I'm not interested in voting for someone who believes that people can be "possessed" by some "evil entity" and there are rituals that can remove this evil presence from that person.

That's as good as sitting in grass and mud huts in the Middle Ages and casting spells to ward off bad luck.

Don't work for me.

294 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:38pm

re: #107 Gordon Marock

Why can't we just nominate Thomas Sowell and be done with it.

Or

Shelby Steele

[Link: tv.nationalreview.com...]

295 notutopia  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:38pm

re: #34 ArmyWife

I read VDH's article 20 times. I agree wholeheartedly Army Wife we need to widen our tent and define who we are. I invite others to consider strongly that we need to reconsider having a forum soon to define our commonalities as Conservative Republicans and let's not allow the GOP platform to spoonfeed us to have Jindal be the only
possible candidate. I do not want a default choice as a candidate again, because we were too proud to meet as a group and do our own thinking and choosing a candidate/s as a party.
IMO Jindal is working out just fine for La. and we need to consider however, that the rest of the US is not a typical constituency set like in La.
He is able to pander to constituencies of large groups of Catholics which comprise the majority of the larger cities ( And Private Schools and Univer. in the state). Religion is very important to the people of La. Christians, Jews, Faith Healers, VooDoo, and exorcisms are really practiced there. Thus, the appeasement with the law to embed the educational system with creationism and Darwinism. Also, Napoleonic law is still practiced in La.
UGH

296 Bumr50  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:53pm

re: #246 goddessoftheclassroom

That was at the end of "The Usual Suspects."

297 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:50:56pm

re: #280 JHW
I just can't believe the education system has crapped out that bad. It is appalling.

298 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:51:02pm

re: #287 Steffan

That may actually be proof she is a viable national candidate -- why would they bother if they didn't fear her?

Maybe they are afraid, I don't know, but I think they will keep her unelectable.

299 right_on_target  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:51:26pm

re: #208 hermit

Okay, lemme see if I got this...forgive me if someone brought this up.

Somebody thinks it would be a good idea to go from Chicago politicians to Louisiana politicians....

WTF!?!?!? No wonder some folks don't believe in forward evolution, we'd freakin REGRESS back into the political slime!

Why don't we just hire a roofing company for president...


____________________________________
Actually, we here in Louisiana ARE doing something about getting rid of bad politicians by not re-electing them or getting them under indictment.
For example, Joe Cao [Republican] is running against Dollar Bill and stands a good chance of getting elected.
Louisiana is split into THREE distinct political regions, the Bible Belt North, the Cajun Catholic South and Greater New Orleans.
The Bible Belt North is what brought defeat to Bobby Jindal in his first try at governor in 2003.
So, after victory in the last election, Jindal decided to pay back favors to the Bible Belt Northerners where the Louisiana Science Education Act was actively promoted.

300 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:51:42pm

re: #288 ArmyWife

Newt's ethical compass had some moments of disorientation. If he was a lib it wouldn't matter - heck, look at the parade of freaks in the Dem column what with their male protistution rings, piles of frozen cash and affairs with younger girls - some of whom found dead in parks, others on their knees in the Oval Office. The Libs circle the wagons around their freaks, we kick ours to the curb.

At least we stand on principle.

301 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:51:57pm

re: #292 gringotipico

I don't dislike Gov. Jindal, but I don't see what all these pundits are having wet dreams about... Seems like they're BARELY a step up from the Palin 2012 crowd.

They are clutching for anything. We need to first take the 2010 elections and take one of Obozo's legs out. Then we lean on him.

302 docremulac  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:52:05pm

If Jindal is actually seriously being considered as a Republican candidate I'm convinced Democrats have infiltrated the Republican party enough to have complete control of which candidates get selected. They picked McCain and Huckabee to get rid of Romney and who's the next most obvious looser? Jindal.

He's not a presidential candidate, he's the math club geek that you felt sorry for because the jocks made him eat his calculator.

Watch the Democrat media pick a flattering title for him that they'll yank when necessary. Maverick's already taken. How about "Superdork" Oh wait, I guess that's not flattering. Apt though. Then his media "friends" will whisper in his ear about how he needs to run on a presidential platform of adding an amendment to the constitution outlawing demons or putting references to exorcism in the national anthem.

303 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:52:12pm

Yoo hoo! LesLein, the phantom downdingleberry!
So you are the one...
/Top Gun

Check this out.. I have no issues if you live to downding..maybe it's fun..
But I think maybe you could just throw out a couple of explainations out here once in awhile..People post mostly in Honesty and feelings get hurt with blind downdings..For Example..
I posted something a couple of months ago about if during the Democratic Convention the grateful Dead would have played outside the city the moombats would have never shown up..just in jest..
Well it really upset some lizards and they started downdinging me...
But they had the Moxie to post on-line why they were upset with my post. I respected that..That's all we ask of you.step up to the plate..Something somebody said upset you.. Why?
BTW.. To those posters that were so pissed off about me insulting the Dead..I didn't insult them.. LOL
But I could

304 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:52:40pm

re: #254 rawmuse

Nice.
/thanks.

305 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:52:42pm

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

You just insulted my Grandfather, who fought in 3 wars for you. He was a far cry from a mud hut, thank you very much.

306 kansas  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:52:52pm

re: #300 MandyManners

At least we stand on principle.

Principle, perhaps. Standing? I don't think so. It's more like we fall on principle.

307 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:52:57pm

re: #281 Drained Brain

In my pre-retirement years I was a right-wing high school principal in Canada of all places (not an easy place to be right wing). Our science department head was a typical left-wing unionist type (strong NDP for any Canuck readers). He was a Darwinist (is that the term?) and the more he evangelized about it the more skeptical I became. Can't folks just be agnostic about a few things? Can't there be a little live-and-let-live on the topic to give some of us a chance to let our views evolve?

Just a thought...

Here's a thought: if you don't understand the science, then YOU live-and-let-live. Let those who do understand the science, keep teaching.

308 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:53:01pm

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

/Maybe the one inhabiting you is particularly tenacious.../

309 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:53:06pm

re: #224 rawmuse

Exorcism is no big deal to me

Can't it sometimes get out of hand?

310 ziggyelman  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:53:50pm

Wish I had gotten home sooner, probably too late, people are tired about talking about this....
Gindal is it. Our only hope. Palin is wonderful in many areas, but the media knows she isn't the most articulate person in the world, doesn't use big enough words for her. Newt is very smart, but has way too much baggage.
I couldn't give to F***S about Gindal being a creationist. He is very smart, he uses them big fancy words, wind him up, and he talks, and talks, and talks. Without stuttering, or umming, like Obama does. He can't be tripped up, he knows more than the reporters that would question him.
Now, if folks want to give the other side ammo, they certainly will gladly carry the water on the Creation issue....
He's not perfect, but no one is. I really don't know who certain folks think is better...I see no one that could even begin to have a battle of wits with Obama.
But "they" sure doesn't want Gindal to be the next guy. And they must want a 2 term Obama then...

311 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:54:31pm

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

Well, I'll say it right here, I'm not interested in voting for someone who believes that people can be "possessed" by some "evil entity" and there are rituals that can remove this evil presence from that person.

That's as good as sitting in grass and mud huts in the Middle Ages and casting spells to ward off bad luck.

Don't work for me.

Your ignorance is surpassed only by your bigotry.

312 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:54:40pm

re: #299 right_on_target

... So, after victory in the last election, Jindal decided to pay back favors to the Bible Belt Northerners where the Louisiana Science Education Act was actively promoted.

I don't know if your comment was designed to make us think more highly of Jindal, but your last paragraph above certainly speaks volumes to who he will "suck" up to. I don't want no part of that.

313 Drained Brain  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:54:58pm

re: #307 Zimriel

Here's a thought: if you don't understand the science, then YOU live-and-let-live. Let those who do understand the science, keep teaching.

Yes, I've always thought that about priests and rabbis as well.

314 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:04pm

re: #295 notutopia

Understand I am not saying Jindal is our hope (and change agent!). What I am saying is we need Fiscal and social conservatives in our tent - we need to stand FOR this, and articulate why. We don't need to be insistent that everyone be a religious zealout, or a religious moderate or not religious at all. We need to fight for the right to be any of those things, if we so chose. To say we need to be more "liberal" socially is wrong and gets us no where.

315 Salamantis  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:15pm

re: #151 LesLein

It was Reagan who said that evolution was "just a theory." In 1984 it hurt him a great deal, costing him Minnesota and the District of Columbia.

But seriously folks, the GOP can't possibly win without the social conservatives. This crusade against them amounts to a circular firing squad. As bad as creationism is, it's less harmful than teaching students that humans cause catastrophic global warming, or that we should "spread the wealth."

Next year the Democrats will attempt to give the District of Columbia representation in Congress and implement card check. Instead of opposing these power grabs, let's go after our own side!

The GOP cannot win without appealing to moderates and independents. The religious right agenda is like electoral kryptonite to those voters; they won't even approach any party that embraces it.

316 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:21pm

re: #310 ziggyelman
Ummmm....NO! Jindal is not our only hope. Sheesh. It is a long time till 2012. A lot can happen.

317 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:26pm

re: #207 goddessoftheclassroomF

The cult of global warming has ensnared our energy and economic policy and could conceivably cripple both.


When Newt drank the cool aid I could have thrown up. When Thompson was the only one who didn't raise his hand when asked "Raise Your Hand If Global Warming Is a Serious Threat" I cheered.

318 ornery elephant  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:34pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

I certainly won't vote for Jindal. Go ahead and nominate him. He won't win.

Boy, that's a shocker.

319 mich-again  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:45pm

re: #273 Thanos

Republicans need to go back and read what Thomas Jefferson had to say. There is a lot of sound advice for good governance that still applies today. More than ever really.

320 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:48pm

re: #311 goddessoftheclassroom

There's a fine line between religious belief and magical thinking. I don't want a president who believes in magical solutions to real world problems.

321 JHW  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:55:50pm

re: #297 pingjockey

It almost convinces me that there should be a basic literacy test to vote, which of course would never fly for a variety of reasons. I'll bet most immigrants taking the citizenship test would ace this test easily. Appalling is the right word, and there should be widespread outrage over the failure of a large part of our education system. I couldn't believe what I was reading on the very high percentage of respondents couldn't answer correctly the simplest civics and history questions.

322 ziggyelman  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:56:37pm

re: #316 pingjockey

Who then? And I need to type Jindal....good grief!

323 Racer X  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:56:37pm

*burp*

/blame it on this:

Very Bad Elf Ale

Quite tasty!

324 rawmuse  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:56:46pm

re: #304 Killgore Trout

Nice.
/thanks.

This one is better.

325 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:04pm

re: #288 ArmyWife

Newt's ethical compass had some moments of disorientation. If he was a lib it wouldn't matter - heck, look at the parade of freaks in the Dem column what with their male protistution rings, piles of frozen cash and affairs with younger girls - some of whom found dead in parks, others on their knees in the Oval Office. The Libs circle the wagons around their freaks, we kick ours to the curb.

It's always struck me as oddly humorous and depressing that the left is more forgiving of their moral sinners than the Christian right. Of course they look the other way for their crooks too...

326 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:09pm

re: #315 Salamantis

The GOP cannot win without appealing to moderates and independents. The religious right agenda is like electoral kryptonite to those voters; they won't even approach any party that embraces it.

The GOP can't win without fiscal conservatives. Since 1992.

327 Last Mohican  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:15pm

re: #281 Drained Brain

He was a Darwinist (is that the term?)

No, that's not the term.

328 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:18pm

re: #314 ArmyWife

Understand I am not saying Jindal is our hope (and change agent!). What I am saying is we need Fiscal and social conservatives in our tent - we need to stand FOR this, and articulate why. We don't need to be insistent that everyone be a religious zealout, or a religious moderate or not religious at all. We need to fight for the right to be any of those things, if we so chose. To say we need to be more "liberal" socially is wrong and gets us no where.

Although I agree with you, there is an easier way. When you screw with people's money they will NOT vote for you. Fiscal responsibility first.

329 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:32pm

re: #324 rawmuse

Oooh, that's nice.

330 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:33pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

There's a fine line between religious belief and magical thinking. I don't want a president who believes in magical solutions to real world problems.

Isn't he entitled to bis private, personal beliefs and forms of worship?

331 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:34pm

re: #317 Rancher

F


When Newt drank the cool aid I could have thrown up. When Thompson was the only one who didn't raise his hand when asked "Raise Your Hand If Global Warming Is a Serious Threat" I cheered.

Thompson's campaign was so incredibly lackluster that I often wondered if he was on drugs. A good guy, but his advisors were pretty much useless.

332 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:45pm

re: #265 kansas

In my opinion she has not survived as a viable national candidate. Its still like whack a mole. Every time she surfaces Leno and Letterman whack her.


Yes she has and the fact that the left keeps attacking her proves it.

333 tradewind  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:55pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

Well, we've got one in the WH, starting January 20th.
Hope=Change.
/right/

334 Salamantis  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:57:59pm

re: #160 tradewind

Charles...
The mainstream Catholic church has a procedure..... rarely used, but taken very seriously..... for exorcism.

Yeah, but in the exorcism in which Jiondal participated, no Catholic clergy were present. It was perpetrated by a college campus Christian club.

335 Racer X  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:07pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

There's a fine line between religious belief and magical thinking. I don't want a president who believes in magical solutions to real world problems.

b,b,b,but, Hope! Change!

You're ruining it!

336 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:38pm

re: #318 ornery elephant

I'm still on the fence with Palin but I probably won't vote for her either.

337 ClosetConservative  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:40pm

re: #303 HoosierHoops

When it comes to downdings and the like, I'd like to reaffirm my belief that Little Green Footballs is not an echo chamber. There are more dissenting in any one thread here than you could find in a day at the Daily Kos, and that's a good thing because it keeps our critical thinking skills sharp. Downdings should be reserved not so much for ideas you find unfavorable, but the manner in which someone states their feelings. You can disagree with something, but I wouldn't advise downdinging it unless the way that something is said is highly inflammatory.

Alright, off the soap box...

338 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:43pm

re: #315 Salamantis

The GOP cannot win without appealing to moderates and independents. The religious right agenda is like electoral kryptonite to those voters; they won't even approach any party that embraces it.

And the GOP can't win without appealing to the other end of their base, either. Not going one way or another with my opinion, I don't know yet. Just stating that you have to look out for your people first, then worry about moderates and independents.

339 sngnsgt  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:49pm

re: #291 MandyManners

Right here.

LOL, Al 'Do as I say, not as I do' Gore!

340 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:50pm

re: #318 ornery elephant

Boy, that's a shocker.


Zackly! How many votes did KT have? One. I am sure he had the same attitude about Obama's chances. Trouble is, at the end of the day, its all the other votes that count, and they did.

341 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:55pm

re: #331 Perplexed

He didn't want the job.

342 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:58:57pm

Good night, Lizards.

343 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:59:32pm

re: #305 ArmyWife

You just insulted my Grandfather, who fought in 3 wars for you. He was a far cry from a mud hut, thank you very much.

First off, I wasn't responding to a comment by you. Second, I wasn't addressing my comment to anyone in particular. Thirdly, I suspect that I "insulted" hundreds of people who don't agree with me.

But, how the hell can ANYONE have an opinion without probably upsetting someone else's opinions or beliefs.

I don't believe in exorcism, I don't believe in posession and I don't believe in any of the supernatural trapping that go along with it.

So what?

344 caliredst8r  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:59:38pm

re: #249 gclaghorn

Hey, isn't that Arafish's little red folder?

345 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:59:42pm

re: #273 Thanos

We need to look ahead and get out of the defensive stance we had to adapt in mid '05 to defend the ongoing war effort in Iraq. Where the left used to be reactive prisoner to the 24 hour news cycle, we've switched positions with them and become the same sort -- looking for a silver bullet in the next day's papers. That's not going to happen - we need to get out of defensive mode and go offense and persist. We've already lost most everything, we have nothing left to loose by looking ahead and taking strides forward.

In 2012 Iraq will be over but for the historians. Possibly Afghanistan will be as well. There will be new threats, and they will be different. Who in the party is looking at that? Every part of the party needs to challenge themselves, what are they doing exactly for tomorrow's children?

Iraq, for all intents, is over now. This is why you don't see any stories about it in the MSM -- it's over, and we won. Combat deaths in Iraq are below the level of homicides in Chicago. Fallujah is pacified to the point where most of the US presence has been withdrawn.

We will likely be in Afghanistan for a while.... the country can't pretend to be civilized (in the Western sense) in its history -- it's a collection of tribes who are often hostile to each other.

The Bush Administration's main failing is their inability to tell us precisely what we're doing over there and why. Bush needed to explain what he was doing and why he was doing it -- and why he deserved our support. In this, he failed.

I think history will be much kinder to him than current public opinion.

346 Racer X  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:59:42pm

re: #340 A Kiwi Infidel

Zackly! How many votes did KT have? One. I am sure he had the same attitude about Obama's chances. Trouble is, at the end of the day, its all the other votes that count, and they did.

KT had ZERO votes.

He don't get to bitch.

347 mich-again  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:59:45pm

re: #290 Desert Dog

McCain was so muddled, nobody knew what he stood for.

I never once got the impression from listening to John McCain speak that he really wanted the job.

348 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 6:59:55pm

Rancher or Rustler?

349 jaunte  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:10pm

I think it would be smart to carefully examine a candidate if the Washington Post was elevating them on the list of Republican leaders.
Especially when they're already winking at the word "evolving" in the story.

"Here, drink from this wine glass. This one right here."

350 Zimriel  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:18pm

re: #305 ArmyWife

You just insulted my Grandfather, who fought in 3 wars for you. He was a far cry from a mud hut, thank you very much.

It is possible for your Grandfather to be a hero, and yet still deluded over certain points. I can't say I agreed with my grandfather (WW2 vet) over every little issue either. Some of his issues were "out there". I still love him and wish he was still around.

A few dozen or hundred generations beforehand, I had ancestors who believed in torturing prisoners for the glory of Odin. I'm sure their Christian grandkids thought they were pretty nice too, apart from the "blood eagle" thing.

351 Drained Brain  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:21pm

re: #327 Last Mohican

No, that's not the term.

See, I don't really give a damn what the term is as long as the government basically leaves me alone to practice my own beliefs or non-beliefs. I can think of far worse effects of the public education system than a fairly piddling controversy about science education. Of course, I'm sufficiently older than many of you to realize how much one actually remembers about what was learned in elementary-school science classes.

352 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:26pm

re: #321 JHW
I wish we could have a test like that. Can you imagine the howling from the left? Mwahaha!They say having a picture ID is onerous. Everyone over the age of 18 by law must have positive proof of who they are on their person. All states issues IDs to nondrivers. You have to have ID to cash a check etc... I'd settle for a positive ID check and paper ballots to vote.

353 ziggyelman  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:28pm

re: #315 Salamantis

The GOP cannot win without appealing to moderates and independents. The religious right agenda is like electoral kryptonite to those voters; they won't even approach any party that embraces it.

But, why didn't McCain win then? He WAS mr. Moderate, Mr Independent....and lost by what, 6 % points?

354 sngnsgt  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:35pm

re: #342 goddessoftheclassroom

Nite Goddess.

355 gringotipico  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:36pm

re: #301 NYCHardhat

Exactly what I was thinking... We need to be patient, we need to do it from the ground-up just like they did (only with class and true patriotism). We have a few things to get straight as a party (I use the term loosely) before we go off picking our next media victim.

356 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:00:45pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

There's a fine line between religious belief and magical thinking. I don't want a president who believes in magical solutions to real world problems.

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT. You may insult someone grandfather!

357 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:01:06pm

re: #330 goddessoftheclassroom

Isn't he entitled to bis private, personal beliefs and forms of worship?


He certainly is. However he claims that exorcisms can cure cancer. Will he apply this same magical thinking to economics or military operations? It's a sign of bad decision making and flawed logic.

358 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:01:27pm

The Dems win because they tell people what they want to hear - the realization that they're liars comes too late. If the Lizard Nation is representative of Republicans in general, we're in big trouble. Finding a common platform that pleases everyone will be impossible, always has been. Accepting voters from many interests will go much further than exclusion. Most folks' personal beliefs don't even need to be discussed; it's the big issues that warrant our attention.

359 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:01:46pm

re: #346 Racer X


KT had ZERO votes.

He don't get to bitch.


Yet here I am bitching away.

360 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:01:56pm

re: #337 ClosetConservative

When it comes to downdings and the like, I'd like to reaffirm my belief that Little Green Footballs is not an echo chamber. There are more dissenting in any one thread here than you could find in a day at the Daily Kos, and that's a good thing because it keeps our critical thinking skills sharp. Downdings should be reserved not so much for ideas you find unfavorable, but the manner in which someone states their feelings. You can disagree with something, but I wouldn't advise downdinging it unless the way that something is said is highly inflammatory.

Alright, off the soap box...

Oh I agree! But..I think if you are always down dinging lizards..At least step up once in awhile and say why..
Hey..I thing your idea sucks and here is why...But play nice..
But to always be invisible is kind of creepy to me..
/There goes the Karma dang it!

361 Perplexed  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:02pm

re: #341 NYCHardhat

He didn't want the job.

Why did he run then?

362 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:09pm

re: #322 ziggyelman
I don't know. It is 4 years away. Obambi could make Jimmah Carter look like a fucking genius and anyone with a pulse could beat the empty suit.

363 Racer X  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:16pm

re: #353 ziggyelman

But, why didn't McCain win then? He WAS mr. Moderate, Mr Independent....and lost by what, 6 % points?

Do not distract us with the facts!

It don't get any more middle of the road than McCain.

3/4 Democrat.

364 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:17pm

re: #358 RubyTuesday

The Dems win because they tell people what they want to hear - the realization that they're liars comes too late. If the Lizard Nation is representative of Republicans in general, we're in big trouble. Finding a common platform that pleases everyone will be impossible, always has been. Accepting voters from many interests will go much further than exclusion. Most folks' personal beliefs don't even need to be discussed; it's the big issues that warrant our attention.

That painting with a broad brush, isn't it?

365 rawmuse  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:22pm

Most religions, and Christianity in particular, are highly supernatural.

366 Wishing  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:23pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

He certainly is. However he claims that exorcisms can cure cancer. Will he apply this same magical thinking to economics or military operations? It's a sign of bad decision making and flawed logic.

His *personal* beliefs allowed to push creationism in the classroom BY LAW. This is a serious issue.

367 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:23pm

re: #349 jaunte

I think it would be smart to carefully examine a candidate if the Washington Post was elevating them on the list of Republican leaders.
Especially when they're already winking at the word "evolving" in the story.

"Here, drink from this wine glass. This one right here."

Absolutely! It's like we didn't learn a damn thing.

368 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:34pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT. You may insult someone grandfather!

Both my grandfathers are dead. Asshole it up; it (was) a free country.

369 ornery elephant  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:43pm

Wre: #315 Salamantis

The GOP cannot win without appealing to moderates and independents. The religious right agenda is like electoral kryptonite to those voters; they won't even approach any party that embraces it.

If you mean the GOP has to appeal to them by choosing pro-abortion, anti-religious stances, embryonic stem cell research, gay marriage rights and immigration amnesty....then I guess I don't want to win that bad in 2012.

370 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:43pm

re: #310 ziggyelman


Gindal is it.

If you think he's "it", you should probably try to spell his name correctly. Just sayin'.

371 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:02:57pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout
Religious belief IS supernatural thinking. In God, not in voodoo.

372 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:09pm

re: #361 Perplexed

Why did he run then?

You got me.

373 theheat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:14pm

re: #338 TheMatrix31

If the GOP did not pander to the religious supporters, then who, exactly, would the religious voters vote for? If given no choice, my guess is they would still vote GOP if it represented a more fiscally responsible government.

Take religion out of the equation, the religious voters have to vote on mainstream issues, same as everyone else.

374 Racer X  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:20pm

re: #359 Killgore Trout

Yet here I am bitching away.

What was that?

Did anyone hear something?

375 wolfie  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:22pm

There's too much emphasis on presidential politics. I'd like to see a bunch of people like Palin, Jindal, Giuliani, etc. run for the Senate on a fiscal sanity/reform/small govt platform and then try to shake things up when they get to Washington.
We need people in Congress who can articulate Reaganite values.

376 Wishing  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:24pm

re: #370 Occasional Reader

If you think he's "it", you should probably try to spell his name correctly. Just sayin'.

ROFL

377 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:26pm

re: #237 Sharmuta

If democrats continue to be allowed to look like the party of fiscal restraint, republicans are going to lose. As long as republicans want to act like drunken liberals with the money of the American people, we will lose.

Indeed. But democrats are often far more corrupt and insane with money than Republicans could ever hope to be.

Jamie Gorelick, Franklin Raines.. Chris Dodd...

the list goes on and on

378 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:29pm

OT: Is anyone else having problems with "Remember Me" checkboxes on all sites in Firefox 3?

379 jaunte  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:40pm

re: #367 Sharmuta

I'm picturing the media as Lucy in Peanuts, setting the football up for us yutzes to try another kick.

380 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:03:42pm
381 maximoso  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:09pm

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

More Jindahl bashing. How delightful.

Seriously guys - The POTUS election isn't coming for 4 years. Can we focus on issues that are relevant TODAY - rather than pre-emptively trying to smear a guy to take him out. I don't like or dislike the guy - he's interesting - but hardly worthy of thrashing or promoting to the level this site advocates.

Jindahl is governing Louisiana. The only thing important today is whether or not his constituency likes him. In 4 years - we can peel apart his record for evaluation. So far - I've seen the education bill which I read and found nothing worthy of the amount of attention this site gives to smearing the guy.

I think analysis of Obama's cabinet appointments would be alot more fruitful than Taking out Jindahl 4 years before it's relevant.

Awh heck - maybe we should take out all the Republican CANDIDATESs. Then we can vote for McCain again in 2012 by default. Losing the POTUS General Election 2 yeas in a row would be a pretty cool achievement for McCain.

382 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:23pm

re: #366 Wishing

His *personal* beliefs allowed to push creationism in the classroom BY LAW. This is a serious issue.


Agreed. That's my concern with Palin as well. I don't give a shit if she hates gays, most Christian do. But she crosses the line when she wants to amend the Constitution. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but I don't want them forced on me.

383 Elcid  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:25pm

If one starts with the premise that the Left and their media propagandists are going to be running a gotcha' campaign against anyone on the Right side of the aisle, for the next four years, your answer is clear...Obama for Four More.

The hope is, that the Constitution still stands as whole and that it is STILL the written guiding document, that it ends the Obama years.

384 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:31pm

re: #377 FrogMarch

Indeed. But democrats are often far more corrupt and insane with money than Republicans could ever hope to be.

Jamie Gorelick, Franklin Raines.. Chris Dodd...

the list goes on and on

True- but the media don't play like dat, Homes.

385 jamie  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:33pm

So, to sum up...

1. Creationist.
2. Keeping with the anti-science theme, is opposed to embryonic stem-cell research.
3. An ally of Grover Norquist, who while not anti-Israel, isn't exactly Jerusalem's best friend.
4. Abortion nut.
5. Exorcisms.

What a dream candidate!

/

386 Wishing  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:34pm

re: #378 gclaghorn

OT: Is anyone else having problems with "Remember Me" checkboxes on all sites in Firefox 3?

Ok, I'll bite: What is a remember me check box?

387 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:04:40pm

re: #348 Sharmuta

Rancher or Rustler?

Oh, the Rancher and the Rustler can be friends...

(something like that)

388 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:04pm

re: #379 jaunte

I'm picturing the media as Lucy in Peanuts, setting the football up for us yutzes to try another kick.

THAT'S IT!

/picture Linus shouting as Snoopy rolls away startled

389 Steffan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:07pm

re: #283 Gordon Marock

The real fear stems from Al Gore thinking he might not collect the hundreds of millions from the carbon trading companies and schemes he has bought in to. That is why gore's tone will become more and more strident despite the mounting contrary evidence. In order to have cap and trade, someone must facilitate the trading.

I've noticed two things: He will not debate the concept, and he will not allow the MSM to even be present during his speeches.

Makes ya wonder what he has to hide, hmmmmm? :)

390 Gordon Marock  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:09pm

The bottom line is that the social conservatives have nowhere to go, despite their threats to boycott certain candidates. We need to force a rational, principled candidate on them who focuses on fiscal and national security issues in order to save the GOP. Let them threaten their boycott.

391 Last Mohican  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:10pm

re: #351 Drained Brain

I can think of far worse effects of the public education system than a fairly piddling controversy about science education.

I would not characterize the right of children to learn the most basic principle that underlies the entire scientific study of life as a "fairly piddling controversy about science education."

392 ziggyelman  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:13pm

re: #362 pingjockey

I don't know. It is 4 years away. Obambi could make Jimmah Carter look like a fucking genius and anyone with a pulse could beat the empty suit.

But, it's not 4 years away anymore. It's more than likely less than 24 months away.
Name a Republican that is going to appeal across the board. Take off Palin and Jindal's names...
Go ahead, I double dog dare ya! ;)

393 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:20pm

re: #371 RubyTuesday

Religious belief IS supernatural thinking. In God, not in voodoo.


I really don't see them as that separate.

394 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:27pm

re: #368 OldLineTexan

Both my grandfathers are dead. Asshole it up; it (was) a free country.

I was being sarcastic with Killgore. It's was in reference to ArmyWife who siad to me...

re: #305 ArmyWife

You just insulted my Grandfather, who fought in 3 wars for you. He was a far cry from a mud hut, thank you very much.

I wasn't dumping on anyones grandfather.

395 RubyTuesday  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:29pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton
Just the opposite, Chaaaaahles.

396 Wishing  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:42pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

Agreed. That's my concern with Palin as well. I don't give a shit if she hates gays, most Christian do. But she crosses the line when she wants to amend the Constitution. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but I don't want them forced on me.

She said she wanted to amend the constitution? I must have missed that!

397 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:54pm

re: #386 Wishing

Ok, I'll bite: What is a remember me check box?

In the login box, the checkbox which you check off to keep your password saved as a cookie so you don't have to log in every time you open a site.

398 Desert Dog  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:05:56pm

re: #358 RubyTuesday

The Dems win because they tell people what they want to hear - the realization that they're liars comes too late. If the Lizard Nation is representative of Republicans in general, we're in big trouble. Finding a common platform that pleases everyone will be impossible, always has been. Accepting voters from many interests will go much further than exclusion. Most folks' personal beliefs don't even need to be discussed; it's the big issues that warrant our attention.

Ain't that the truth. If you run as something you are not, it's easy to lie out of both sides of your mouth.

I can almost hear the KOS Kiddies and MoveOn.org seething from here when they are looking at Obama's appointments. They are hardly the left wing crazies they wanted in there. It's more like Clinton Lite. That is one reason I have always been against the Dems.......the think intentions are what matters...not results.

399 Rancher  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:08pm

re: #315 Salamantis

The GOP cannot win without appealing to moderates and independents. The religious right agenda is like electoral kryptonite to those voters; they won't even approach any party that embraces it.

Again, had McCain gotten as many Republican votes as Bush did he would have won. Despite a horrendous economy and a bright new shining young Kennedyesque historic candidate. We don't need to abandon our base to appeal to this or that group, conservatism will win.

400 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:19pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

True- but the media don't play like dat, Homes.

no - they do not. State run DNC media don't want to show us any truth.

401 Salamantis  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:20pm

re: #185 ArmyWife

"We cannot survive as a free nation when some men decide that others are not fit to live and should be abandoned to abortion or infanticide"

" Society has always regarded marital love as a sacred expression of the bond between a man and a woman. It is the means by which families are created and society itself is extended into the future. In the Judeo-Christian tradition it is the means by which husband and wife participate with G-d in the creation of new human life. It is for these reasons, among others, that our society has always sought to protect this unique relationship. In par the erosion of these values has given way to a celebration of forms of expression most reject. We will resist the efforts of some to obtain government endorsement of homosexuality"

Ronald Reagan.

(Could it be that Reagan had a stand and could articulate it rather than checking the current wind direction for his "thoughts"?)

You DO know, of course, that while he was California governor, Reagan signed one of the most liberal abortion bills in the nation into law, right? I'm sure that as a one-time head of the Screen Actors Guild, he also knew his share of homosexuals. My guess is that he took those religious right positions for electoral convenience. But they're not so convenient any more.

Reagan was not perfect. After all, he did ignominiously withdraw from Lebanon after the Hez blew away a barracks full of our Marines there and an embassy full of US personnel. That "hurt them and they'll run" message has not been lost on jihadis.

402 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:21pm

re: #392 ziggyelman

But, it's not 4 years away anymore. It's more than likely less than 24 months away.
Name a Republican that is going to appeal across the board. Take off Palin and Jindal's names...
Go ahead, I double dog dare ya! ;)

Michael Steele

403 Thanos  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:27pm

re: #336 Killgore Trout

I'm still on the fence with Palin but I probably won't vote for her either.

KT, she comes from a state where MJ is legal and did nothing to change that. She comes from a state where you keep your damned nose out of other people's business, and so far has governed that way, as you can tell by her approval rating. On average the AK electorate is younger, more highly educated, and better read than the average person in the lower forty eight, you have to do something during those long winter nights. There's strong support for science in the state, and I don't see that flagging under her.

404 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:30pm

re: #380 buzzsawmonkey

Okay okay okay, IS HE AN ASTEROID, sheesh, tough room...

405 AceR  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:06:38pm

For so many years (since 1972-1998) I voted for anyone who had a (D) after their name. Didn't matter to me who they were or what they stood for. I was against the Republican party because they were not the party of the little man---they didn't care enough for ordinary people like me, but instead were the party of the rich.

Then one day I began to examine what the Democrats stood for: welfare, abortion and Planned Parenthood, higher taxes---including mine, but especially on the rich---to fund their social programs, education systems that didn't educate our children, unions (like the NEA), the ACLU, the secularization of society, weaker defense, and judges that frankly made rulings that made my head spin. I got fed up with all of the embarrassments and scandals of the likes of Bill Clinton, Edward Kennedy, Barney Frank, Tip O'Neil, Gary Hart. Hollywood stars made me sick as they were a bizarre bunch, supporting the Democrats with their traitorous (Jane Fonda), and often vile anti-American rantings and I finally decided to change my party affiliation.

Now to be totally honest with you all, I also became a Christian in 1998. And for me, the pivitol issue was abortion. My reasoning was this: If the person I wanted to support for any office didn't want to protect the most innocent of those among us, then how could I be assured that they would protect me or my loved ones if we became vulnerable and innocent, maybe like my father who was suffering from Alzheimers, or my mother who suffered from a stroke?

If a candidate wouldn't stand up for the weakest among us, then what assurances did I have that they would protect me and defend me and those that I love from those who wish to do us harm? How could they say they will protect little children in schools, if they were willing to allow the NEA to install sub-standard teachers to oversee the sub-standard curriculum in the education of our children? Where were the assurances that they would protect our children from pornography, especially child pornography, if they supported the efforts of the ACLU and organizations like NAMBLA? How could they instill in younger generations the value of a good work ethic if they allowed welfare to continue almost unchecked?

I am now a Republican, but I can no more set aside my religious views when considering a candidate for my vote in favor of only deciding whether a candidate should receive my vote based on fiscal or security issues. For me, I will look at the whole package. But I will tell you this: how a candidate views abortion, whether it be partial-birth, 1st trimester, or in the case of infants who survive botched abortions, I feel as though the candidate reveals him/herself to me by how they view the rights of the unborn or newly born.

Republicans can shove people like me to the sidelines and try to marginalize me in the party, and I will leave and find another candidate to vote for.

For me it is simple. If a candidate goes the way of actively supporting a woman's "right" to choose vs. the baby's "right" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness guaranteed in our Constitution, then they will lose my vote.

406 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:07:06pm

re: #396 Wishing

Yup.

407 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:07:21pm

re: #371 RubyTuesday

Religious belief IS supernatural thinking. In God, not in voodoo.

So, what kind of "thinking" is related to voodoo?

408 Wishing  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:07:49pm

re: #397 gclaghorn

In the login box, the checkbox which you check off to keep your password saved as a cookie so you don't have to log in every time you open a site.

Oh ok...sometimes it remembers, sometimes not. It depends on how you have the cookies set. I think I have mine to cancel the cookie when I close the page.

409 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:07:49pm

re: #394 Walter L. Newton

I wasn't dumping on anyones grandfather.

Hell, I know. I was trying to help you out. I may not agree with what you say, but I will get drunk and argue about your right to say it.

/

410 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 1, 2008 7:07:57pm