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Romania Removes Theory of Evolution from Schools

Science | Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:14:58 pm PST

The country of Romania takes a big step backward: Romania removes theory of evolution from school curriculum.

Romania’s withdrawal of the theory of evolution from the school curriculum could be evidence of a growing conservative tendency in teaching. Evolution has been removed from the school curriculum in a move which, pressure groups argue, distorts children’s understanding of how the world came into being.

Meanwhile, religious studies classes continue to tell Romanian children that God made the world in seven days.

The theory of the Origin of Species and the evolution of humans is no longer present in the compulsory curriculum, through a nationwide decision made under the previous Government in 2006. Before the change, Darwin’s theory was taught to pupils aged 18 or 19 years old. This was also in the curriculum during the Communist period of dictator Nicolae Ceausescu.

Information on natural selection, how fish turned into lizards and, more or less, a summary of the first 4.5 billion years of the world until man walked the earth is now optional.

“We don’t teach the theory of evolution anymore,” said one 38 year-old Bucharest-based biology teacher.

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1 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:16:35pm

Here we go.

2 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:17:16pm

....tomorrow they will all be mouth breathers, and running around not being able to do anything.....


( That is probably a major karma killer)

3 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:17:20pm

Just couldn't resist that ***** post

4 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:17:42pm

re: #1 Bubblehead II

Here we go.

You avatar shows a launch.............

5 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:17:56pm

Brilliant. That just sucks.

6 Racer X  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:18:32pm
“We don’t teach the theory of evolution anymore,” said one 38 year-old Bucharest-based biology teacher.

Did some new scientific information void the data?

7 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:19:16pm

re: #6 Racer X

Did some new scientific information void the data?

Science is perfect. Nothing "voids" the data. Sheesh!

8 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:19:25pm

re: #6 Racer X

Yes, Genesis

9 Russkilitlover  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:19:44pm

"The country of Romania takes a big step backwards"? From what? They brought down their dictator and his wife, but after that, they haven't exactly moved to the forefront of progressive government. They seem like they are still serfs.

10 MJ  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:19:53pm
“We don’t teach the theory of evolution anymore,” said one 38 year-old Bucharest-based biology teacher."

Ex-biology teacher.

11 clgood  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:19:54pm
evidence of a growing conservative tendency in teaching

Doh. There's nothing "conservative" about it. I hate it when "journalists" slap "conservative" on anybody who happens to be doing the wrong thing. I remember how the most extreme left-wing of the Soviet Union always got called "conservative" in the press. Later it was the Taliban. Neither is remotely "conservative".

Poor Romanian kids, though.

12 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:20:06pm

re: #4 jcm

Why yes, it does.

13 SpartacusDk  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:20:41pm

So we are back to God created Earth in 4004 BC? I wish we could have been spared the creation of Ceausescu. I has messed up the Romanians' minds it seems.

14 Outrider  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:20:45pm

wonder how many hatchlings will step on it tonight and get whacked?

15 lostlakehiker  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:21:37pm

At least Romania hasn't removed math from the curriculum. They punch way above their weight in that arena.

16 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:22:08pm

Um......

Information on natural selection, how fish turned into lizards and, more or less, a summary of the first 4.5 billion years of the world until man walked the earth is now optional.

optional, removed, whatever!

Ok i'll be back.

17 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:22:18pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

Why yes, it does.

George Washington class?

18 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:22:21pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

But I didn't launch first.

But I do need to get out of here. Time to cook dinner.

L8R

19 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:22:23pm
"The Romanian state, whether it intends or not, offers pupils a unique perspective on the world, the religious one, without any critical scientific or philosophical offset," argues Cernea.

Kind of like the ummah.

20 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:23:48pm

Sorry to OT so soon, but I cannot resist. Picked this up from a bloggers comment at The New York Observer

"After running as the antidote to Mr. Bush’s foreign policy, it’s not even clear anymore whether Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton will be able to do anything significantly different from the Bush administration in the world’s most intense hot spot."

Barry Hussie Obamers is in over his little garlic head! No wonder he is keeping Bush's Secretary of Defense and has surrounded himself with centrist highly experienced folks! He's like: ma-ma, da-da help me! I bet he will just be comfortable in the mcee/actor role and let others run the show for the American people!

Garlic Head, huh? Oh, the next four years are gonna be a riot.

21 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:24:08pm

re: #17 jcm

Not sure the picture is kinda vague. But it matches my nic.

You know I am trying to leave........................ :-)

22 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:24:33pm

It is sad to see the minds of children kicked around like footballs.

23 callahan23  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:24:46pm

re: #19 Sharmuta

Kind of like the ummah.

I'd like to know how that is going to get down with the EU harmonization.

24 Russkilitlover  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:24:51pm

re: #19 Sharmuta

Kind of like the ummah.

We (the West) tend to look on Romania as a progressive nation, especially since they dispatched their dictator with such fanfare; however, there is nothing in Romanian recent politics to indicate that this once Soviet-backward country has actually joined the 21st century.

25 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:25:06pm

re: #21 Bubblehead II

Not sure the picture is kinda vague. But it matches my nic.

You know I am trying to leave........................ :-)

Later!

26 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:25:40pm

re: #22 Ojoe

It is sad to see the minds of children kicked around like footballs.

It is criminal.

27 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:25:57pm
28 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:26:37pm

re: #24 Russkilitlover

We (the West) tend to look on Romania as a progressive nation, especially since they dispatched their dictator with such fanfare; however, there is nothing in Romanian recent politics to indicate that this once Soviet-backward country has actually joined the 21st century.

My dad's made several humanitarian / mission trips to Romanian. Once your out of the cities, its still 3rd world.

29 yah  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:27:36pm
30 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:27:42pm
Biology has been cut from two hours to one of teaching per week for the final two years in many high schools. In place of evolution, kids are taught more about human ecology and the environment

So- ditching evolution leaves more time for environmentalism- that might be news to some who think Charles is focusing on the wrong scientific issue in the classrooms.

31 Russkilitlover  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:28:06pm

OT - Wow! Thanks, Charles! This site moves like......Greased Lightning!

32 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:29:03pm

re: #23 callahan23

I'd like to know how that is going to get down with the EU harmonization.

Creationism in the EU is slowly rising- thanks in part to islamic creationists like Harun Yahya.

33 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:29:09pm

Meanwhile,

NATO ministers have reiterated their backing for the planned US missile shield in Eastern Europe.

34 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:29:25pm

OT:

I know it's probably been said before... but I am LOVING this new server...
It's SUPER quick!

35 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:29:35pm

link

[Link: www.spiegel.de...]

All 26 NATO allies signed the statement backing the deployment.

36 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:29:50pm

Goodnight all, gotta get up at 1am to take a client to Manhattan for a meeting.

37 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:30:00pm

re: #30 Sharmuta

So- ditching evolution leaves more time for environmentalism- that might be news to some who think Charles is focusing on the wrong scientific issue in the classrooms.

Creationsion, Gorebul Warming, and Greenism (neo-socialism).
A trifecta!

38 Throbert McGee  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:30:01pm

Hmmm, I notice that neither buzzsawmonkey nor Occasional Reader have posted to this thread yet, which can mean only one thing:

They're off racking their brains trying to come up with a good "Numa Numa" pun about creationism/ID.

Me, I gots nuthin'...

39 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:31:07pm

They won't remove evolution from the Romanian schools. Let's focus on more important matters!
/Romanian right-wingers a week ago

40 Racer X  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:31:08pm

re: #29 yah

OT
The perfect Christmas gift for your moonbat friends

I'm buying my moonbat friends carbon offsets!

Merry Christmas! Here's your "feelgood" certificate.

41 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:31:38pm

re: #30 Sharmuta

Excellent point!

42 callahan23  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:31:47pm

I've heard and read about that some. Yet no pupil, student or any other involved in education in Germany could give me any confirmation.

43 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:32:03pm

Back to the topic at hand.

For those of you faithful Christians who need a very well thought out work that balances Evolution & Creation (not ism), I highly recommend Cardinal Christoph Schönborn's Chance or Purpose.

To my fellow Prods, the Roman Church has got this one right.

44 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:32:54pm

But seriously. This new web server is da bomb. At peak traffic time today with more 3,000 online, the load average never got above 0.87. Typical load average for that kind of activity with the old server was in the neighborhood of 4 to 6.

Lower numbers are better, and that's a hell of a percentage.

45 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:33:14pm

re: #36 CapeCoddah

Goodnight all, gotta get up at 1am to take a client to Manhattan for a meeting.

Maybe I'll see ya there!
*gives creepy smile*

46 vxbush  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:33:38pm

re: #44 Charles

But seriously. This new web server is da bomb. At peak traffic time today with more 3,000 online, the load average never got above 0.87. Typical load average for that kind of activity with the old server was in the neighborhood of 4 to 6.

Lower numbers are better, and that's a hell of a percentage.

In short: good toys for Christmas!

47 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:33:39pm

re: #44 Charles

But seriously. This new web server is da bomb. At peak traffic time today with more 3,000 online, the load average never got above 0.87. Typical load average for that kind of activity with the old server was in the neighborhood of 4 to 6.

Lower numbers are better, and that's a hell of a percentage.

What type of server, specs?

48 Tigger2005  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:33:57pm

Evolution, Schmevolution! Our little gymnast girls must not be distracted by such nonsense!

49 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:33:59pm

re: #28 jcm

My dad's made several humanitarian / mission trips to Romanian. Once your out of the cities, its still 3rd world.

and in the cities you find packs of dogs running wild in the parks and 8 yr old runaways huffing paint in the subways.

50 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:35:07pm

re: #44 Charles

But seriously. This new web server is da bomb. At peak traffic time today with more 3,000 online, the load average never got above 0.87. Typical load average for that kind of activity with the old server was in the neighborhood of 4 to 6.

Lower numbers are better, and that's a hell of a percentage.

But the most important question: is it shiny?

51 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:35:18pm

The bottleneck at LGF has always been the web server. The new one is a Xeon quad core 3.4, with hyperthreading.

The DB server has always been a quad core.

52 OilIsMastery[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:35:23pm
53 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:35:37pm

re: #49 Thanos

and in the cities you find packs of dogs running wild in the parks and 8 yr old runaways huffing paint in the subways.

Thank God for America.
I say that several times a day.
I spent 10 years in Iran, 2 out in a village, the mud hut variety.
Thank God for America.

54 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:35:52pm

re: #51 Charles

Happy hopped-up hamsters!

55 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:36:11pm

This new server is so fast it bans you before you even finish typing the naughty message and press POST !

56 Tigger2005  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:36:23pm

re: #49 Thanos

and in the cities you find packs of dogs running wild in the parks and 8 yr old runaways huffing paint in the subways.

Maybe we could make a deal with the Russians ... you can have Rumania back if you promise to leave Georgia and Ukraine alone.

57 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:36:25pm

Here's an enlightening comment someone wrote after the article:

Here’s the real laugh. Creationists have totally missed their own astonishing biblical heresy, that’s right heresy, in invoking the concepts of “accidental evolution” and “blind” chance. According to the Bible (Pv. 16:33) God controls all chance and there are no accidents. That’s a pretty big Ooopsie! You might enjoy this from the current Google News listings:


Intelligent Design Rules Out God's Sovereignty Over Chance

[Link: www.gather.com...]

“What proponents of so-called intelligent design have cynically omitted in their polemic is that according to Biblical tradition, chance has always been considered God's choice as well.”

58 Outrider  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:36:39pm

first one now at bat

59 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:37:20pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Evolution is not the other side of an argument with the Bible. It's a completely different discussion.

60 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:38:22pm

re: #41 Basho

Thanks, Basho- it's all over the last thread on ID. "Global Warming! Global Warming is the problem! That's the religion they're teaching our kids!"

First- this reminds me of the fascist threads when they first started. "Islamists! Islamists are the threat!" As if that somehow meant we didn't need to worry about nazis.

Second- if the children are given a proper scientific education, then the scientific method will correct the flaws in global warming. We don't stand a chance of correcting issues within science if science isn't taught.

61 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:38:23pm

re: #58 Outrider

first one now at bat

Swingin' for the moon.

62 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:38:25pm

IMHO the problem the Creationist has is that he cannot imagine a God unconstrained by Time & Space.

63 VegasRick  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:38:34pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Hmmm. I certainly think On The Origin of Species should be taught but only alongside The Holy Bible in order to present both sides of the argument.

A few questions I have are:

(1) Why hasn't the tuatara changed in the past 140 million years even though it's alleged to be the fastest evolving animal?

(2) Why haven't new species emerged with intelligence?

(3) In what way have sharks and echinoids evolved in the past 400 hundred million years?


If I were you I would put on a helmet!

64 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:39:34pm

re: #59 Kenneth

Evolution is not the other side of an argument with the Bible. It's a completely different discussion.

Thank you.

65 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:40:03pm

re: #60 Sharmuta

We don't stand a chance of correcting issues within science if science isn't taught.

You got it!

66 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:41:06pm

re: #60 Sharmuta

Thanks, Basho- it's all over the last thread on ID. "Global Warming! Global Warming is the problem! That's the religion they're teaching our kids!"

First- this reminds me of the fascist threads when they first started. "Islamists! Islamists are the threat!" As if that somehow meant we didn't need to worry about nazis.

Second- if the children are given a proper scientific education, then the scientific method will correct the flaws in global warming. We don't stand a chance of correcting issues within science if science isn't taught.

AGW is also one of the new directions Discovery institute is going, they didn't get support for attacking evolution alone, so they are now bundling. The other field they are trying to move into is the Neurosciences since there's still a lot of murk in that field.

67 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:41:08pm

re: #65 FrogMarch

You got it!

I try.

68 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:41:29pm

Is Obama Killing his Honeymoon?


With Clintonites in his Cabinet, forgiveness for Lieberman, and creeping signs of centrism -- progressives may be on the verge of panic.

Reality bites, moonbat.

69 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:41:46pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Number one I'll leave for Salamantis later...

Number two: Many creatures are intelligent in their own way.

Number three: When a creature is perfectly suited to its niche evolutionary pressures are low.

70 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:41:47pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

well, *that*was quick.....

gamey buttock, anyone? %-)

71 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:41:55pm

re: #62 unreconstructed rebel

IMHO the problem the Creationist has is that he cannot imagine a God unconstrained by Time & Space.

I brought the time aspect up a few ID threads back. Correct, it's very difficult to get folks out of the mindset God existed an infinite amount of time before creation and will exist and infinite amount of time into the future, into one where God is in another timescape from ours.

72 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:42:20pm

It's why the discovery institute shills try to change the subject in these threads to AGW instead of trying to defend ID.

73 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:42:27pm

re: #66 Thanos

AGW is also one of the new directions Discovery institute is going, they didn't get support for attacking evolution alone, so they are now bundling. The other field they are trying to move into is the Neurosciences since there's still a lot of murk in that field.

So I've seen. Very clever and sneaky, imo. This way they look like good guys for questioning science and it gives them a piggy back to question evolution.

74 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:42:47pm

re: #70 redc1c4

well, *that*was quick.....

gamey buttock, anyone? %-)

Looks like he got the stick.

75 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:42:47pm

re: #72 Thanos

It's why the discovery institute shills try to change the subject in these threads to AGW instead of trying to defend ID.

I agree!

76 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:43:29pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Hmmm. I certainly think.....

(that's debateable)

(3) In what way have sharks and echinoids evolved in the past 400 hundred million years?

sharks are the perfect killing machine in their environment.... what pressure is there for them to change?

(not that you can respond to this..... %-)

77 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:43:30pm

re: #57 Basho

God controls all chance and there are no accidents.

The good Cardinal I cited earlier points out that it's awful hard to hold that view when contemplating DNA. Whole bunches of trash, mistakes and downright chaos.

78 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:43:35pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

79 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:43:43pm

re: #33 Kenneth

Meanwhile,

NATO ministers have reiterated their backing for the planned US missile shield in Eastern Europe.

Great! And Obama has already announced he won't deploy the ABM's previously in his campaign. Obama is getting a strong dose of reality and I suspect many of his statements made during the campaign will never reach fruition. Lest anyone doubt what is going on with the ABM's being deployed to Poland. The Bush administration states the ABM's are to shield Europe against the rogue state Iran's missiles armed with WMD's. However if that was the case the base should be built nearer to Iran, perhaps Malta, Crete or Italy would be good sites for ABM defense against Iran. Four Arleigh Burkes's with SM-3's stationed in the Med would be a better solution for the Iranian problem and I suspect we will see deployments of the 'cans into the med for this purpose. The Polish ABM site is optimized for a defense against Russian missiles against Europe. That's why NATO signed off on it. After Georgia Europe is running scared and expecting uncle Sam to spend the money and work needed to protect Europe's ass....
/And of course they will never say anything good about us, mates...

80 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:44:01pm

re: #78 Charles

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

Oh for Pete's sake!

81 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:44:16pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Hmmm. I certainly think On The Origin of Species should be taught but only alongside The Holy Bible in order to present both sides of the argument.

A few questions I have are:

(1) Why hasn't the tuatara changed in the past 140 million years even though it's alleged to be the fastest evolving animal?

If the mechanism works for a period, very little adaptation to further processes will take place or be noticeable in the short term. However to state that something has not changed AT ALL in 140 million years is most likely a fallacy to start with.

(2) Why haven't new species emerged with intelligence?

Because creationists get in the way? No .. seriously .. the paths to intelligence are not immediate. If you look at the path taken even by the human it was fraught with different makeups to reach the end product. About 72 different structures competed for the option of ascending to man. And in the end only one came forth as man. Or was it only one?

(3) In what way have sharks and echinoids evolved in the past 400 hundred million years?

Are you saying you are totally familiar with a shark as of 400 million years ago? I'm not aware of any living representations for 400 million year old sharks. As I stated in the first example, if the mechanism works successfully in the environment, very little change is required to keep the lifeform to a successful mode. However if there were changes in the conditions to success they would be reaching in future designs.

82 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:44:51pm

re: #63 VegasRick

If I were you I would put on a helmet!

too late............. whacked on it's first post, apparently.

must be some kinda record........ %-)

83 callahan23  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:44:58pm

re: #78 Charles

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

Thought as much.

84 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:12pm

How many sock puppets can one nutter have?

85 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:14pm

re: #66 Thanos

AGW is also one of the new directions Discovery institute is going, they didn't get support for attacking evolution alone, so they are now bundling. The other field they are trying to move into is the Neurosciences since there's still a lot of murk in that field.

That is perfectly demonstrated in a new book called The Devil's Delusion. Here is a wonderful review so that one doesn't have to read it that junk:

[Link: www.talkreason.org...]

86 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:18pm

re: #78 Charles

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

Like moths to a light..

87 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:24pm

re: #78 Charles

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

Won't these people just give it up already! Nobody tries to pull this kind of stuff on the DKos (otherwise, the Kossacks would be ranting feverishly).

88 Racer X  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:35pm

If everything was created 4000 years ago, why does my time machine show me images from a million years ago?

89 Tigger2005  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:48pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Hmmm. I certainly think On The Origin of Species should be taught but only alongside The Holy Bible in order to present both sides of the argument.

A few questions I have are:

(1) Why hasn't the tuatara changed in the past 140 million years even though it's alleged to be the fastest evolving animal?

(2) Why haven't new species emerged with intelligence?

(3) In what way have sharks and echinoids evolved in the past 400 hundred million years?

Well I don't know what a tuatara is, but as to the other questions:

(2) There are lots of species with intelligence, and some even with a degree of self-awareness. In addition we once shared the planet with at least one other intelligent hominid, Neandertal Man. But intelligence on our level could well be a cosmic rarity, and anyway nothing's likely to evolve to our level of intelligence while we're the top dogs (although the germs and viruses and bugs are REALLY the top dogs). We already occupy that niche, and there's really no room for another super-intelligent species.

(3) While sharks are still basically the same after millions of years, my understanding is that they nevertheless HAVE changed, via genetic drift, and are different in noticeable ways from their "primitive" ancestors.

90 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:50pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

Hmmm. I certainly think On The Origin of Species should be taught but only alongside The Holy Bible in order to present both sides of the argument.

A few questions I have are:

(1) Why hasn't the tuatara changed in the past 140 million years even though it's alleged to be the fastest evolving animal?

(2) Why haven't new species emerged with intelligence?

(3) In what way have sharks and echinoids evolved in the past 400 hundred million years?

The two are separate discussions.
The Bible is a matter of spirituality and faith. Metaphysical.
Evolution is a matter of evidence, scientific process, testing etc... Physical.

Not the same thing at all.

91 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:45:53pm

re: #84 Buster Bunny

How many sock puppets can one nutter have?

As many as feet they are willing to stick in their mouths.

92 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:46:34pm

re: #91 CyanSnowHawk

As many as feet they are willing to stick in their mouths.

They evolved extra feet?

93 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:46:34pm

well, it's not likely that Romania is going to stop being a 3rd world country any time soon......

94 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:46:58pm

Which came first .. the creationist sock puppet or the egg?

95 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:47:57pm

re: #79 LoFlyer

Ah... but Obama left himself a door.... he said he would not deploy an "unproven" missile defence technology. If the Pentagon can prove it, he will fund it. He will define "prove" as he wishes.

96 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:48:10pm

re: #94 Buster Bunny

Which came first .. the creationist sock puppet or the egg?

The turtle...

97 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:48:57pm

mmm Romania, the Alabama of Europe

98 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:49:20pm

re: #93 redc1c4

well, it's not likely that Romania is going to stop being a 3rd world country any time soon......

Whats most unsatisfying is that the Romanians that pick up this nonsense and toss it around WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD ON IT. So you are left with people who are trapped in the ideology and have absolutely no direction to claim for further construction and development upon it. Yes, it keeps Romania as close to the dark ages as possible without the possibility of turning on a light.

99 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:49:21pm

re: #78 Charles

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

And he sounded so sincere... Does he think he's helping his cause by fooling and misleading others. What an unbiblical way to live.

100 RickJ  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:50:00pm

teaching science is fine, but prior bias will exist and will change the instruction at the classroom level. Pre existing beliefs will color the source material as well. Kids will be taught stuff as truths whether it is or not.

Exhibit A - the delightful science of Global Warming.

Science hasn't escaped pre existing belief - not yet anyway.

101 Tigger2005  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:50:12pm
Hmmm. I certainly think On The Origin of Species should be taught but only alongside The Holy Bible in order to present both sides of the argument.

What about all the other scriptures and creation stories? Shouldn't they be taught as well? What about the creation story of Todd Palin's Eskimo tribe?

102 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:50:31pm

re: #90 jcm

The two are separate discussions.
The Bible is a matter of spirituality and faith. Metaphysical.
Evolution is a matter of evidence, scientific process, testing etc... Physical.

Not the same thing at all.

Yup. As I said a few ID threads back, Science examines how He pulled it off, Theology examines why and for whom.

Now, if you want to tie yerself in a knot, mix those together.

103 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:50:50pm

re: #92 jcm

They evolved extra feet?


Not quite sure how that works with a troll.

104 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:51:04pm

I might have to come up with a recipie for cooking sock puppets at this rate

105 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:51:06pm

re: #93 redc1c4

well, it's not likely that Romania is going to stop being a 3rd world country any time soon......

Well this just further seals that fate.

106 yah  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:52:01pm
107 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:52:15pm

re: #78 Charles

I know, I know.... I said I was out of here. But dinner is started and I have this weird fascination with watching users self-destruct.

108 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:52:37pm

re: #84 Buster Bunny

How many sock puppets can one nutter have?



How many angels can dance on the head of a pin
?

109 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:52:59pm

re: #100 RickJ

Like clockwork, eh Sharmuta?

110 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:53:01pm

re: #100 RickJ

teaching science is fine, but prior bias will exist and will change the instruction at the classroom level. Pre existing beliefs will color the source material as well. Kids will be taught stuff as truths whether it is or not.

Exhibit A - the delightful science of Global Warming.

Science hasn't escaped pre existing belief - not yet anyway.

Science offers us a means and a credible means of interacting with the world AS WE KNOW IT. Contrary to the creationists alarm, science does question what comes along on a regular basis, and if it fits with whats known it may even adopt it. But it will still work on observable principles and methods. This is why I have such issue with where Schroedingers Cat is at any point in time.

111 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:53:55pm

re: #102 unreconstructed rebel

Yup. As I said a few ID threads back, Science examines how He pulled it off, Theology examines why and for whom.

Now, if you want to tie yerself in a knot, mix those together.

I said pretty much the same thing a few ID threads back.

112 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:13pm

re: #95 Kenneth

Ah... but Obama left himself a door.... he said he would not deploy an "unproven" missile defence technology. If the Pentagon can prove it, he will fund it. He will define "prove" as he wishes.

I noticed that also. Isn't it wonderful to be a politician nowadays? No accountability unless you are truly stupid and screw up so badly that even a blind man can see the corruption. All Franken (SP?) is stealing this election in Illinois and the media is on board with the lack of critical thinking like isn't it a little suspicious that all these uncounted votes are for Franken? Yaaar!

113 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:27pm

re: #103 CyanSnowHawk

Not quite sure how that works with a troll.

Hmmm, might mean more gamy buttocks for the grill though.

114 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:28pm

re: #95 Kenneth

Just guessing, but I suspect that no matter how successful ballistic missile defense is, it won't be considered successful enough to continue funding it. The Democrats have been trying to ensure that America can be destroyed with ballistic missiles since Reagan was President.

115 Joan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:29pm

re: #63 VegasRick

VegasRick, we can't teach the Holy Bible in school. You know that. How would we be able to do that, without teaching the Koran, and Dianetics?
I'm just saying--why not expend energy on substantive world history & culture courses, along with geography, which would offer an opening to appropriately address religious tradition, without indoctrinating one in particular. Seems our society is becoming so schizo on this topic. There must be a way to preserve respect for tradition, without dragging science education into a theological cauldron.

116 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:34pm

And now, the new Romanian table of the elements!


/All 4 are included!

117 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:42pm

re: #52 OilIsMastery

There's a difference between fastest mutating DNA and fastest evolving, you should learn about it. Which species of Tuatara are you referencing btw? What are you comparing it too? Are you aware that most species "rate of change" in DNA is not known? Are you aware that there are other factors that both add to and inhibit evolution besides random mutation? The biggest of these tend to be the rate of change in the environmental niche they happen to be in. In the end Lambert's discoveries look like they will extend rather than refute Evolution.

As to why other species haven't emerged that have intelligence, who's to say they haven't, and been subsequently extinguished by the existing intelligent species? (e.g. the famous Ice mummy in the Alps has zero living descendants among human DNA today that scientists can find.)

Which particular species of shark are you referencing? Some have evolved, others haven't much.

118 Steffan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:54:52pm

re: #78 Charles

Blocked four times, and back with another sock.

They'll learn.... eventually.

/naaaaah, the learning curve is flat....

119 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:55:23pm

re: #108 karmic_inquisitor


How many angels can dance on the head of a pin
?

How many angels want to dance on the head of a pin?

120 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:55:25pm

re: #111 jcm

I said pretty much the same thing a few ID threads back.

GMTA

121 Throbert McGee  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:55:33pm

re: #38 Throbert McGee

They're off racking their brains trying to come up with a good "Numa Numa" pun about creationism/ID.

Me, I gots nuthin'...

I'm still drawing a blank as far as "Creationism jokes to the tune of Rumanian pop songs," but I just came up with this riff on Dorothy Parker:

The age of the Earth when ol' Darwin died
Was, at most, a half-dozen mill-ay-nnia.
And Adam and stegosaurs strode side-by-side,
And I am Marie of Roumania!
© 2008 Throbert M.

122 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:56:00pm

re: #95 Kenneth

Ah... but Obama left himself a door.... he said he would not deploy an "unproven" missile defence technology. If the Pentagon can prove it, he will fund it. He will define "prove" as he wishes.

Of course, Newtons laws prove missile defense technology works. The missile defense program is an engineering challenge. Call it inefficient, expensive, unreliable, error prone, etc., but don't say it isn't proven.

123 Karridine  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:56:00pm

re: #92 jcm

They evolved extra feet?

Well, they obviously didn't evolve their MOUTHS or mouth-control... :D

124 Joan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:56:46pm

re: #115 Joan

VegasRick, we can't teach the Holy Bible in school. You know that. How would we be able to do that, without teaching the Koran, and Dianetics?
I'm just saying--why not expend energy on substantive world history & culture courses, along with geography, which would offer an opening to appropriately address religious tradition, without indoctrinating one in particular. Seems our society is becoming so schizo on this topic. There must be a way to preserve respect for tradition, without dragging science education into a theological cauldron.

APOLOGY: VegasRick, I'm sorry; you weren't the poster I should have been addressing. My bad :(

125 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:05pm

re: #100 RickJ

teaching science is fine, but prior bias will exist and will change the instruction at the classroom level. Pre existing beliefs will color the source material as well. Kids will be taught stuff as truths whether it is or not.

Exhibit A - the delightful science of Global Warming.

Science hasn't escaped pre existing belief - not yet anyway.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. If science is properly followed, only the evidence speaks, not pre-existing notions. If science is left to be science, global warming will self-correct- because of evidence.

126 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:26pm

re: #114 Iron Fist

Just guessing, but I suspect that no matter how successful ballistic missile defense is, it won't be considered successful enough to continue funding it. The Democrats have been trying to ensure that America can be destroyed with ballistic missiles since Reagan was President.

Who are we to be so arrogant as to DEFEND ourselves and our way of life?
Everyone should live in a Marxist 3rd world shit hole! It the utopian dream of the left.

127 itellu3times  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:42pm

re: #30 Sharmuta

So- ditching evolution leaves more time for environmentalism- that might be news to some who think Charles is focusing on the wrong scientific issue in the classrooms.

Can't really make any sense out of ecology, without evolution. If you think things just are, you have no idea of changes that can and can't be made.

128 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:44pm

re: #121 Throbert McGee

I'm still drawing a blank as far as "Creationism jokes to the tune of Rumanian pop songs," but I just came up with this riff on Dorothy Parker:

When I saw this post . . .

re: #27 buzzsawmonkey

Rumania, Rumania.

. . . another tune came to mind instead.

129 callahan23  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:48pm

re: #116 gmsc

And now, the new Romanian table of the elements!


/All 4 are included!

THAT'S GREAT!

130 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:54pm

re: #116 gmsc

And now, the new Romanian table of the elements!


/All 4 are included!

you arent kidding .. thats for real?

wow .. these guys need to go down.

131 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:57:59pm

re: #117 Thanos


As to why other species haven't emerged that have intelligence, who's to say they haven't, and been subsequently extinguished by the existing intelligent species?


You forgot about Neanderthals. They had tools, language, art, religion and probably even music.

132 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:26pm

Gotta go. Y'all have a great evening.

133 Skyrocket[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:35pm
134 Blackwater28  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:36pm

Who cares. They do a horrible job of teaching science in schools anyway. Honestly if they wanted to teach kids about biology they should just force them to read a well written book by a prominent biologist and be done with it. It would probably be a much more enriching experience than the useless crap they taught me in 7th-9th grade science class.

135 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:39pm

re: #126 jcm

Equality of misery for the Proletariat is one of the cornerstones of Marxist theory.

136 Steffan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:51pm

re: #94 Buster Bunny

Which came first .. the creationist sock puppet or the egg?

We can at least hope that the creationist sock puppet got some fun out of it....

137 traderjoe9  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:54pm

Too many people look for proof of God...little do they know that no such proof exists. I wouldn't think its intended that way - in fact if there was a proof it would be utterly pathetic. If we had proof of God then everybody would be a Rabbi or a Priest or whoever.

The closest thing to proof of God is the Jews.

138 VegasRick  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:58:56pm

re: #124 Joan

APOLOGY: VegasRick, I'm sorry; you weren't the poster I should have been addressing. My bad :(

No problem, I enjoyed the post as well. That is a very good question btw.

139 RickJ  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:59:02pm

re: #110 Buster Bunny

Science offers us a means and a credible means of interacting with the world AS WE KNOW IT. Contrary to the creationists alarm, science does question what comes along on a regular basis, and if it fits with whats known it may even adopt it. But it will still work on observable principles and methods. This is why I have such issue with where Schroedingers Cat is at any point in time.

well - I'm not smart enough to follow all that - but how do you feel about kids in school today being fear programmed about super storms and drowned out cities coming all of a sudden any minute now? Thats what science in school is up to. I don't trust the school system all that much.

140 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:59:20pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Great point, and Thanos at 117 too since I missed it...

141 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:59:23pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

You forgot about Neanderthals. They had tools, language, art, religion and probably even music.

No, that was going to be pt. 2 in the reply, but I think the Discomoby got whacked.

142 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:59:42pm

re: #98 Buster Bunny

Whats most unsatisfying is that the Romanians that pick up this nonsense and toss it around WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD ON IT. So you are left with people who are trapped in the ideology and have absolutely no direction to claim for further construction and development upon it. Yes, it keeps Romania as close to the dark ages as possible without the possibility of turning on a light.

so it's a sort of religious marxism then, eh?

143 itellu3times  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:59:48pm

Awe, I'd respond to #52, but not if it's gone.

144 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 5:59:57pm

OT for Atlanta lizards, we are canceling the Atlanta meet in December and will shoot for something in January. I just have too much going on over the next two weekends mates, and then we run into the holidays. On the positive side the projects are all on track and the testing is looking good!

145 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:00:16pm

OT: for the gaming geeks who wanted to buy GTA 4, don't buy it yet. They have a major bug that prevents the game from being functional. Give it a week or so and see if they can correct the problem before you buy.

146 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:00:37pm

re: #116 gmsc

And now, the new Romanian table of the elements!


/All 4 are included!

Is this the official band?
Earth, Wind and Fire.

147 itellu3times  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:01:13pm

Hooboy, those socks I thought my dryer ate are showing up tonight as puppets, ain't they just?

148 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:01:23pm

re: #130 Buster Bunny

you arent kidding .. thats for real?

wow .. these guys need to go down.

For clarity:

THE REDISCOVERY INSTITUTE IS A SITE PARODYING CREATIONISTS AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN "INTELLIGENT DESIGN"!

149 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:01:30pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

You forgot about Neanderthals. They had tools, language, art, religion and probably even music.

Yeah, but it was all this dreary, depressing, emo crap. The Neanderthals didn't go extinct so much as they lost the will to live.
/

150 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:01:39pm

Well, at least you all dont have to send your kids to Romanian schools and you also have the choice to even completely avoid the place.

A bit like deciding whether to visit "our friends, the Saudis"

151 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:01:40pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

GTA?

152 clgood  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:01:59pm

re: #133 Skyrocket

Charles is on an important crusade. If you can't see how dangerous a threat to truth and science creationism is, then you're part of the problem. Read what Steven Novella wrote on his Neurologica Blog.

153 J.S.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:08pm

re: #133 Skyrocket

The "issue" here which you cavalierly dismiss as "boring" is about Truth -- it's about the natural world and how we are to interpret our world -- using the rigors of science, and in terms of science. and, contrary to your claims, many, many, many of us at this blog, find this topic thoroughly absorbing, and, indeed, fascinating and necessary to pursue...(as opposed to pursuing fantasies.)

154 FightingBack  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:17pm

re: #112 LoFlyer

I noticed that also. Isn't it wonderful to be a politician nowadays? No accountability unless you are truly stupid and screw up so badly that even a blind man can see the corruption....

That only works for the politicians on the Left.

155 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:19pm

re: #151 Thanos

GTA?

Thank heaven someone else asked so I didn't have to...
:D

156 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:23pm

re: #133 Skyrocket

Dear Skyrocket,

Please start your own blog that I may tell you what to do with it. Thanks!

157 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:23pm

Speaking of games, I'm becoming addicted to LittleBigPlanet. Platforms taken to the next level.

158 Karridine  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:27pm

re: #121 Throbert McGee

Oh no you don't! You can (C) copyright it all you want, but publish it HERE and we gonna RECORD IT and publish it right back atcha, McGee!

/or maybe "The Lame Show, with David Betterman" or "Mere Reporting by Keith Olderman"

159 Steffan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:46pm

re: #122 Basho

Of course, Newtons laws prove missile defense technology works. The missile defense program is an engineering challenge. Call it inefficient, expensive, unreliable, error prone, etc., but don't say it isn't proven.

Seems to me that Robert Goddard proved that in 1922.

Of course, it took the NYT until 1969 to admit they were wrong and Goddard was right....

160 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:55pm

re: #149 Slumbering Behemoth

They were pretty funky: Troglodyte

161 itellu3times  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:02:55pm

re: #149 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, but it was all this dreary, depressing, emo crap. The Neanderthals didn't go extinct so much as they lost the will to live.

Maybe they just finished all their earthly work and ascended to a higher plane.

Or maybe they're still here, watching you ... bugga bugga!

162 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:03:24pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Thanks for the tip. I just beat Half-Life 2 a week ago and I've been looking for a new game to play.

163 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:03:27pm

re: #133 Skyrocket

Goodbye Carl. (Said in my best German psychologist accent)

164 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:04:19pm

re: #157 Charles

Huh, maybe I'll wait 'till it hits the bargain bin. It isn't really a game I'd normally consider but I'll give it a try.

165 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:05pm

GTA = Grand Theft Auto.

166 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:10pm

re: #89 Tigger2005

Well I don't know what a tuatara is, but as to the other questions:

(2) There are lots of species with intelligence, and some even with a degree of self-awareness. In addition we once shared the planet with at least one other intelligent hominid, Neandertal Man. But intelligence on our level could well be a cosmic rarity, and anyway nothing's likely to evolve to our level of intelligence while we're the top dogs (although the germs and viruses and bugs are REALLY the top dogs). We already occupy that niche, and there's really no room for another super-intelligent species.

(3) While sharks are still basically the same after millions of years, my understanding is that they nevertheless HAVE changed, via genetic drift, and are different in noticeable ways from their "primitive" ancestors.


A Tuatara is a Kiwi lizard, said to have not changed in the 140 millions years its been around. Which makes me suspect that "Oilismastery" could well be from down this way. I will dig you up a nice pic.

167 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:10pm

re: #126 jcm

Who are we to be so arrogant as to DEFEND ourselves and our way of life?
Everyone should live in a Marxist 3rd world shit hole! It the utopian dream of the left.

The Democrats all bought into the Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine of status quo of the cold war. That worked with the Soviets who were not insane and loved their children and grand children. The leaders of Iran cannot be certified sane and they certainly don't love their children. I hope Obama is smart enough to realize their might be some merit behind European ABM defense against Iran and Russia...I also think Europe should pay for it mates!

PS Charles, I love your new server! You are smoken' mate!

168 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:11pm

re: #162 Basho

If you bought Half Life as part of The Orange Box there's some other really good games bundled with it. Portal is great and Team Fortress 2 is really fun once you get the hang of it.

169 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:34pm

re: #159 Steffan

Seems to me that Robert Goddard proved that in 1922.

Of course, it took the NYT until 1969 to admit they were wrong and Goddard was right....

Every knows a rocket in space won't work, it has nothing to push against!
//

Well they still keep their '33 Pullet Surprise, (the one covered with blood if you have the eyes to see it.)

170 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:42pm

re: #165 Basho

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Right.

171 CalBear84  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:06:59pm

Information on natural selection, how fish turned into lizards

Lizards!

172 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:07:00pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

Huh, maybe I'll wait 'till it hits the bargain bin. It isn't really a game I'd normally consider but I'll give it a try.

Get ready for the cuteness factor turned up to 10. Still a great game with realistic momentum/inertia modeling, and highly creative graphics.

173 jelo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:07:03pm

"fish turned into lizards"

didn't know the group here once might have been fish/fishes...what kind?

sushi!

174 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:07:13pm

re: #165 Basho

GTA = Grand Theft Auto.

ugh, a game I would never buy.

175 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:07:52pm

Nice moonbattery here: [Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Gotta blame the US! Looking at a list of her past articles, "anti-imperialism" is a common theme. What an ass.

176 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:08:33pm

re: #165 Basho

GTA = Grand Theft Auto.

What? Not the Greater Tokyo Area? Gasp!

/

177 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:08:53pm

re: #176 gclaghorn

What? Not the Greater Tokyo Area? Gasp!

/

Battling Godzilla?

178 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:09:07pm
179 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:09:21pm

I find it odd that folks who OBSESS over the occasional creationism/evolution thread on this site can call it "Charles' Obsession" without the slightest hint of irony. It must require a serious disassociation with logic.

180 RickJ  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:09:57pm

I stopped playing with toy trucks when I was about 7.
I probably can't avoid offending you guys if I say you that computer games are basically just a bunch of fancy toy trucks. oh well. play on.

181 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:10:19pm

re: #172 Charles

Get ready for the cuteness factor turned up to 10. Still a great game with realistic momentum/inertia modeling, and highly creative graphics.

I'm going back to the good ol fashion games of nature. Like er .. um .. poking a dead frog with a stick ........

Move ... ya frog ... move !

/woo .. available for PS3 in late 2009 .. cant wait !

182 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:10:40pm

re: #175 garycooper

Anyone that mentions Hiroshima without mentioning Pearl Harbor, the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, and so on loses all credibility as far as I am concerned. I've got better things to do with my life than waste time reading their drivel.

183 callahan23  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:11:01pm

re: #178 A Kiwi Infidel

Tuatara

Hey, that's one of us!

184 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:11:25pm

re: #169 jcm

Every knows a rocket in space won't work, it has nothing to push against!
//

Well they still keep their '33 Pullet Surprise, (the one covered with blood if you have the eyes to see it.)

LOL
I'm not familiar with this NYT/Goddard thing. Did the NYT really say a rocket can't work in space because it has nothing to push against?

185 ArmyWife  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:11:30pm

re: #180 RickJ

I got Wii Fit. I like the hula hoop.

186 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:11:34pm

re: #175 garycooper
What a moron.
This is much better:

Mumbai's Lesson: It Pays To Listen
War On Terror: U.S. warnings beginning in October of an imminent terror attack didn't save India. And if Democrats continue to doubt the value of aggressive terrorist surveillance, America can expect the same fate.

The world was stunned by the murder last week of nearly 200 people in India's financial capital, Mumbai, apparently by the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, which demands the end of Indian rule in Kashmir and Islamist rule throughout South Asia.

The seven-plus years of remarkable safety America has enjoyed have had the unfortunate side effect of lulling all too many of us into complacency about the reality of the 21st century. (This is why we at Investor's Business Daily mark the 11th of every month with a reminder to readers of the attack of Sept. 11, 2001, running photographs of some of the tragic or heroic events that took place that day.)

The prevention of a repeat of 9/11 wasn't magic. Nor was it luck.

We have our courageous law enforcement officers at the federal, state and local level to thank.

And we have the unsung heroes working in secrecy within the National Security Agency, monitoring telephone and computer communications that may come from or go to terrorists to thank, as well as the intelligence operatives working for the CIA and other spy agencies, some of whom gather lifesaving information in exotic ways.

Perhaps most importantly, we have our outgoing commander in chief to thank, the much-maligned President George W. Bush. There's no doubt that history will vindicate the president who went far beyond his Constitutional duties in selflessly protecting the American people.

For years, Bush's political foes have sought his scalp for approving the NSA's terrorist surveillance program and the CIA's black prison terrorist interrogation program. (Some in Congress intend to continue seeking his scalp even after he leaves office next month.)

Both programs were highly-classified secrets, but their existence was leaked separately to the New York Times and Washington Post by misguided anonymous government sources who obviously can't tell the difference between Watergate and the war on terror.

The NSA operation conducted rapid-response monitoring of domestic communications involving possible terrorist contacts; the much-criticized CIA interrogation program used foreign locales to interrogate high-ranking al-Qaida members and other terrorists possessing high-value information. Both programs have saved hundreds of innocent lives, perhaps many more.

To the president's opponents, however, these are unconstitutional abuses of power and serve as an excuse to try to destroy a two-term presidency that until lately was getting credit for a vibrant economy and its unrelenting struggle to fight the growing global terrorist threat, especially in Iraq.

There were no dark, Nixonian motives behind this president's approval of those two programs; there was only a determination to protect the homeland to the fullest extent possible — even if it meant risking his own political neck. ...

187 ArmyWife  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:12:06pm

re: #178 A Kiwi Infidel

Walter? That you?

////// oh I hope he sees the humor in that since our little spat!

188 J.S.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:12:15pm

I want to get into hacking that Nintendo DS -- you know, "homebrew", etc. -- devise a math tutorial (for doing quick, "mental math"), etc., using that touch screen. There's a CD with card out there -- "Math 'n Games" by Datel, which can turn the DS console into a mini computer -- mp3 files, video, wireless connections, etc...and you can write your own programs, then load 'em up...

189 Throbert McGee  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:12:35pm

There's a Rumanian immigrant family living in the apartment/condo just across the hall from mine. The parents don't speak English very comfortably, but their kid is a thoroughly fluent and Americanized sixth-grade nerd/taekwondo enthusiast, who has jokingly threatened to kick my ass ever since I asked him about "Dragostea Din Tei."

190 Karridine  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:12:42pm

re: #179 Slumbering Behemoth

I find it odd that folks who OBSESS over the occasional creationism/evolution thread on this site can call it "Charles' Obsession" without the slightest hint of irony. It must require a serious disassociation with logic.

Logic? LOGIC? We don' nee' no steenk'n logic!

/we nee' steenk'n FEELINGS! :D

191 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:13:19pm

re: #180 RickJ

Are you trying to be insulting?

192 SWPaul  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:13:43pm

Romania? That comes out of left-field. Was not expecting this to come out of there. In fact, I was not expecting any news to come out of Romania...

193 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:13:51pm

re: #188 J.S.

I want to get into hacking that Nintendo DS -- you know, "homebrew", etc. -- devise a math tutorial (for doing quick, "mental math"), etc., using that touch screen. There's a CD with card out there -- "Math 'n Games" by Datel, which can turn the DS console into a mini computer -- mp3 files, video, wireless connections, etc...and you can write your own programs, then load 'em up...

I want to hack it to produce a sequence that allows you to have 230 IQ .. so then you hand it to another family member and ... they show up just over 100 or something .. so you can sit there and just grin :)

194 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:13:54pm

re: #182 Iron Fist

Anyone that mentions Hiroshima without mentioning Pearl Harbor, the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, and so on loses all credibility as far as I am concerned. I've got better things to do with my life than waste time reading their drivel.

Amen.

195 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:07pm

Time for my standard list of favorite ID/Creationist argument links:

reDiscovery Institute (Parody site)

Using creationist/ID arguments against them:
Why We Believe in a Designer!
Organisms that Look Designed
Oolon Colluphid's Guide to Creation

Talk.Origins archive

196 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:31pm

re: #182 Iron Fist

Anyone that mentions Hiroshima without mentioning Pearl Harbor, the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, and so on loses all credibility as far as I am concerned. I've got better things to do with my life than waste time reading their drivel.

Amen. I once got into an argument online over Hiroshima. I should have asked if they knew all about the Rape of Naking and so on before I wasted my time with their crap. Oh well, you live and learn.

197 Racer X  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:34pm

re: #186 J.D.

The office of the president has one major function - keep Americans safe. Bush has done that.

198 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:39pm

re: #180 RickJ

Oh, yeah, I definitely see that connection. Thanks.

/

199 Joan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:39pm

re: #114 Iron Fist

They are either totally deluded or suicidal. I cannot fathom these *people*

The really do live in an alternate reality.

200 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:42pm

re: #183 callahan23

Hey, that's one of us!

Yup, and it was once a fish.........or maybe not.

By the way callahan23, are those gills I see?

201 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:14:43pm

re: #182 Iron Fist

Anyone that mentions Hiroshima without mentioning Pearl Harbor, the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, and so on loses all credibility as far as I am concerned. I've got better things to do with my life than waste time reading their drivel.

That's what got me banned from D.U. mate. first thread and banned in 30 minutes for defending the idea that Pearl Harbor was not due to American aggression. Sort of like the way the moon-bats think of 911...

202 RickJ  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:03pm

re: #191 Sharmuta

Are you trying to be insulting?

not that much - maybe a little - sometimes I can be quite pleasant

203 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:14pm

re: #185 ArmyWife

I got Wii Fit. I like the hula hoop.

Me too =)
But I've stopped playing it for a while and now I've developed a big belly =(

204 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:43pm

re: #187 ArmyWife

Walter? That you?

////// oh I hope he sees the humor in that since our little spat!


You've lost me completely

205 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:45pm

re: #180 RickJ

I stopped playing with toy trucks when I was about 7.
I probably can't avoid offending you guys if I say you that computer games are basically just a bunch of fancy toy trucks. oh well. play on.

You're no fun anymore.

206 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:46pm

re: #201 LoFlyer

That's what got me banned from D.U. mate. first thread and banned in 30 minutes for defending the idea that Pearl Harbor was not due to American aggression. Sort of like the way the moon-bats think of 911...

I think that being banned by the Democratic Underground is a badge of honor. I bow to you.

207 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:50pm
But there are new proposals to make all religious classes compulsory for the education system, regardless of the parents' wishes. All children who do not want to attend Religion classes would attend a Moral and Religious Education class. But there is no one qualified to teach Moral and Religious Education. Some teachers fear that the classes will, with minor additions, be the same Orthodox curriculum dictated by a religious studies teacher to a single Jew, Muslim or Humanist in a library or staff room.

Thank God for the Constitution.

208 J.S.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:54pm

re: #193 Buster Bunny

oooh, yeah...(oh btw, correction on my previous post -- that's "Music 'n Games" -- argh...)

209 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:15:58pm

re: #197 Racer X

The office of the president has one major function - keep Americans safe. Bush has done that.

Yes he has.
Easy for some people to dismiss, isn't it?

210 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:16:03pm

Current Score.
Bannings. 1
Deletions. 1

211 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:16:42pm

re: #161 itellu3times

Maybe they just finished all their earthly work and ascended to a higher plane.

Or maybe they're still here, watching you ... bugga bugga!

I knew it. The perverts!

212 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:18:08pm

re: #202 RickJ

not that much - maybe a little - sometimes I can be quite pleasant

Perhaps you should work on being pleasant more often.

213 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:18:17pm

re: #210 Bubblehead II

For the thread? The day? Month?

214 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:18:18pm

re: #97 SpaceJesus

mmm Romania, the Alabama of Europe

There are a lot of people in Alabama smarter than you, and most of them are less jerk-like.

215 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:18:19pm

re: #205 CyanSnowHawk

Grown ups are so lame.

216 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:18:55pm

Zimbabwe descends to another level of hell.

The International Committee of the Red Cross confirmed that six people had died in South Africa, with 400 cases reported. In Zimbabwe, the official cholera toll jumped to nearly 600 yesterday, according to the World Health Organisation (WHO), but President Robert Mugabe was still underplaying the crisis by refusing calls to declare the epidemic outbreak a national disaster.

Instead, he deployed heavily armed police to break up a protest by doctors and nurses, inset, complaining about poor working conditions and lack of equipment to help them deal with the cholera outbreak.

217 Buster Bunny  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:19:11pm

And the best thing about this new server that Charles has, if you leave a slice of bread on it for about an hour you get a nice browned piece of toast.

218 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:19:19pm

re: #177 jcm

Battling Godzilla?

Top Ten Giant Movie Monsters of all Time [Lang. warning]

219 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:19:42pm

Is it me, or did the last hatching of hatchlings produce more that average number of troll candidates?

220 callahan23  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:19:51pm

re: #200 A Kiwi Infidel

Yup, and it was once a fish.........or maybe not.

By the way callahan23, are those gills I see?

You mean in your photo? - No definetely wrinkles (aka surplus skin).
Or did you mean my avatar?
That's my lovely cat, she as well as all her brethren are way out of the stage of gills. That's hair around her neck. ;-)

221 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:19:52pm

re: #217 Buster Bunny

And the best thing about this new server that Charles has, if you leave a slice of bread on it for about an hour you get a nice browned piece of toast.

What about my Poptarts?

222 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:20:02pm

re: #180 RickJ

One could say the same about guns, cars, cycling, or any other hobby folks like to fiddle around with, and be just as wrong.

223 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:20:12pm

This thing is stuck or something...

224 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:20:19pm

re: #206 gclaghorn

I think that being banned by the Democratic Underground is a badge of honor. I bow to you.

Haar, I wasn't pleased. I was having a good time playing the "troll"!

225 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:20:35pm

re: #219 A Kiwi Infidel

Is it me, or did the last hatching of hatchlings produce more that average number of troll candidates?

How many have been banhammered so far?

226 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:20:55pm

Since when does Charles have time for video games?

227 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:21:08pm

re: #221 gclaghorn

What about my Poptarts?

I wouldn't if I were you....

228 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:21:22pm

re: #213 J.D.

Just this thread. But it WILL increase. I can guarantee it. Please feel free to update as the thread continues.

229 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:21:57pm

re: #226 Noam Sayin'

Since when does Charles have time for video games?

Mini-vacations.

230 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:06pm

re: #217 Buster Bunny

And the best thing about this new server that Charles has, if you leave a slice of bread on it for about an hour you get a nice browned piece of toast.

I submitted an idea at work to equip one of our earlier portables with a slot. For Pop Tarts.

231 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:07pm

re: #222 Slumbering Behemoth

In my family music was considered the ultimate waste of time. For Some people it's books or TV. Chicks think fishing is a waste of time. Go figure.

232 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:09pm

re: #222 Slumbering Behemoth

One could say the same about guns, cars, cycling, or any other hobby folks like to fiddle around with, and be just as wrong.

I quit playing with Barbies when I was 8, but I still get dressed.

233 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:09pm

re: #226 Noam Sayin'

Since when does Charles have time for video games?

I was wondering that myself. Maybe there are two Charles.

234 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:12pm

re: #228 Bubblehead II

I missed them both.
Don't count on me! :D

235 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:24pm

re: #216 jcm

Zimbabwe descends to another level of hell.

Very sad, I got a job offer from Africa a couple of weeks back and refused in a heart-beat. Not many safe places in Africa, mate...

236 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:22:28pm

re: #229 Charles

Mini-vacations.

Now we know why the server really bogged down.....

// ;-P

237 greenmiler  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:23:13pm

Charles,
thanks for your new 'Clydesdale Hamsters'!

238 Crux Australis  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:23:14pm

An Aussie Lizard

Frillnecked Lizard

239 SWPaul  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:23:29pm

re: #203 Basho

I watched a buddy of mine do the yoga thing on Wii Fit. I almost died laughing. It's fun, but I would never do it in front of people; way too uncoordinated for it.

240 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:24:45pm

re: #235 LoFlyer

Very sad, I got a job offer from Africa a couple of weeks back and refused in a heart-beat. Not many safe places in Africa, mate...

I know a native (white) Zimbabwean driven out by Mugabe. Zimbabwe was at one time a decent place, exporter of food. Now it's just hell on earth.

Any comments I have about Mugabe are bannable.

241 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:25:17pm

re: #236 jcm

Now we know why the server really bogged down.....

// ;-P

No, the hamsters kept taking dancing breaks.

242 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:25:46pm

re: #182 Iron Fist

Well, I take some comfort in knowing my Dad helped bomb the Japanese war machine into cinders, flying 100+ bombing runs from Tinian during the Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns. He's still alive, btw, at 85. One of the last survivors of his B-29 flight group, which has been meeting annually for the past 20 years or so. There were several hundred guys, when they first started meeting in the '80's, or when my Dad first started going to the gatherings. Now, there's about ten.

The Guardian loves to print this kind of drivel, though. Just happened to stumble on it, while trying to find some more info on Mumbai. Ugh.

243 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:25:56pm

re: #240 jcm

I know a native (white) Zimbabwean driven out by Mugabe. Zimbabwe was at one time a decent place, exporter of food. Now it's just hell on earth.

Any comments I have about Mugabe are bannable.

Yet also quite understandable. He is a modern day Idi Amin.

244 Bubblehead II  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:26:23pm

Well dinner is ready and it is time to actually be socially interactive with my wife. Anybody/Everybody please feel free to keep the banning/deleted count up to date.

L8R

245 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:26:28pm

re: #186 J.D.

MUCH better! Thanks.

246 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:26:30pm
247 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:26:36pm

re: #241 gclaghorn

No, the hamsters kept taking dancing breaks.

That.... tune.... can't..... get..... it...... out..... of..... my..... head.......

You are so on my list!
;-)

248 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:26:37pm

re: #240 jcm

I know a native (white) Zimbabwean driven out by Mugabe. Zimbabwe was at one time a decent place, exporter of food. Now it's just hell on earth.

Any comments I have about Mugabe are bannable.

Perhaps just his current residence could be converted to a parking lot, hypothetically speaking, of course.

249 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:26:50pm
250 Outrider  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:27:34pm

re: #144 LoFlyer

OT for Atlanta lizards, we are canceling the Atlanta meet in December and will shoot for something in January. I just have too much going on over the next two weekends mates, and then we run into the holidays. On the positive side the projects are all on track and the testing is looking good!

curiosity. deep in Atlanta or convenient to the Interstate? Generally speaking what area of Atlanta was being considered?

251 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:27:52pm

re: #232 Sharmuta

If my brain wasn't on auto-pilot today, I would think of something funny (and perhaps a little sexist) to say about that last part.

252 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:27:56pm

re: #245 garycooper

We didn't used to call them al-Guardian for nothing!
:D

253 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:28:07pm

Killgore- do you have the graph that shows how creationism is rising in europe handy?

254 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:28:20pm

re: #248 David IV of Georgia

Perhaps just his current residence could be converted to a parking lot, hypothetically speaking, of course.

I was thinking up close and personal, and sleeping very well that night.

255 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:28:32pm

re: #251 Slumbering Behemoth

If my brain wasn't on auto-pilot today, I would think of something funny (and perhaps a little sexist) to say about that last part.

Damn- I was looking forward to your come back to that.

256 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:29:18pm

re: #240 jcm

I know a native (white) Zimbabwean driven out by Mugabe. Zimbabwe was at one time a decent place, exporter of food. Now it's just hell on earth.

Any comments I have about Mugabe are bannable.

Much of Africa is driven by tribal politics, and the population has risen to where millions die in the battles for power. Disease and war are rampant and the NGO's are being driven out. The pirate situation off Somalia is giving me a bad reputation mate!

257 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:29:24pm

re: #157 Charles

Speaking of games, I'm becoming addicted to LittleBigPlanet. Platforms taken to the next level.

Got a teenage son who is hooked on that game, and he has lots o' games to choose from.

258 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:29:32pm
259 Flying Dutchman  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:29:49pm

OT
Hi all,

Terrorist Web Site Hosted by Major US Web Hosting Company !

Thanks' to mypetjawa we now know that a major US hosting company (DreamHost.com) is hosting the web site of the terrorist organization that is probably behind last week attacks on Mumbai, Jamaat ud Daawa also known as Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT).

DreamHost responded to an e-mail I sent them and is fully aware of this situation.

At the time of posting of this link they have NOT taken the terrorist's web site offline !

DreamHost says that they need "new or additional evidence about illegal activity".

Please expose that company's criminal behavior !

Spread the word !

260 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:30:53pm

re: #229 Charles

Mini-vacations.

Mini-vacations... Puh!

There are two of you.

We know.

261 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:31:06pm

re: #259 Flying Dutchman

OT
Hi all,

Terrorist Web Site Hosted by Major US Web Hosting Company !

Thanks' to mypetjawa we now know that a major US hosting company (DreamHost.com) is hosting the web site of the terrorist organization that is probably behind last week attacks on Mumbai, Jamaat ud Daawa also known as Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT).

DreamHost responded to an e-mail I sent them and is fully aware of this situation.

At the time of posting of this link they have NOT taken the terrorist's web site offline !

DreamHost says that they need "new or additional evidence about illegal activity".

Please expose that company's criminal behavior !

Spread the word !

I will make a note never to send any business their way until they resolve this situation. Thanks for the tip!

262 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:31:09pm

re: #256 LoFlyer

Much of Africa is driven by tribal politics, and the population has risen to where millions die in the battles for power. Disease and war are rampant and the NGO's are being driven out. The pirate situation off Somalia is giving me a bad reputation mate!

Africa is a dog's lunch politically, no easy fixes, and (pardon the phrase) a tar baby to get involved in.

263 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:31:34pm

re: #253 Sharmuta

Hmmm, no. I had it saved in my favorites but it now leads to here.

264 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:31:46pm

re: #250 Outrider

curiosity. deep in Atlanta or convenient to the Interstate? Generally speaking what area of Atlanta was being considered?

'Me nic is blue, hit me on email and I'll reveal the secret location, it is near "Little five points" mate.

265 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:31:49pm

re: #185 ArmyWife

My daughter wants the Wii Fit for Christmas. Is it really worth it? I like the other sports games on Wii, like tennis, golf and boxing. The kids clean my clock, but they're fun.

266 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:32:25pm

re: #229 Charles

Mini-vacations.

You my friend need a Maxi-Vacation...
Great work Charles..

267 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:33:00pm

re: #255 Sharmuta

Sorry Sharm, I got nuthin'. Maybe if I had some more sleep. Wait, I got it:re: #232 Sharmuta

I quit playing with Barbies when I was 8, but I still get dressed.

You must prove your claim with a link.
/I call that fact-checking your ass.

Ok, they can't all be gems.

268 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:33:31pm

re: #260 Noam Sayin'

Mini-vacations... Puh!

There are two of you.

We know.

California "Charles" who likes bicycles and geeky web stuff...

and

Denver "Charles" who rules a vast secret empire through his Zionist henchmen and avoids talking about basketball...

269 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:33:59pm

re: #259 Flying Dutchman

Hey - you can rate articles there without registering.

Anyone care to join me?

270 swamprat  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:34:12pm

re: #186 J.D.

What a moron.
This is much better:

Mumbai's Lesson: It Pays To Listen
War On Terror: U.S. warnings beginning in October of an imminent terror attack didn't save India. And if Democrats continue to doubt the value of aggressive terrorist surveillance, America can expect the same fate.

NPR took this and spun to literally say that, because we warned India, "America was involved"(!)
Followed by a puff piece on Obama. They were praising Him because he was going to raise our electricity prices by making the power companies less polluting, undoing the "bush administrations" pollution allowances, and making the power companies use "the most advanced technology available". This means that every company that could introduce the slightest improvement could legally force the power companies to retool. And they were pushing this as a good thing.
You can't make this up

271 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:34:21pm

re: #253 Sharmuta

Ah, here it is....
Public Acceptance of Evolution

Romania is still kicking our butts.

272 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:35:01pm

re: #265 garycooper

My daughter wants the Wii Fit for Christmas. Is it really worth it? I like the other sports games on Wii, like tennis, golf and boxing. The kids clean my clock, but they're fun.

Well, if you like those particular games and want to get in shape then I think it's worth it. It really works as a work-out and it's fun, but it's not multiplayer unfortunately so for a group of kids it may not be the best present.

273 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:35:10pm

re: #238 Crux Australis

An Aussie Lizard

Frillnecked Lizard


You also have the Brown Recluse Spider and you can keep it.

(warning,: not for the squeamish)

274 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:35:16pm

re: #247 jcm

That.... tune.... can't..... get..... it...... out..... of..... my..... head.......

You are so on my list!
;-)

And now, the top two "earworms" of all time:

Earworm #2

Earworm #1

275 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:35:40pm

re: #271 Killgore Trout

Thanks! Stuck it in my favorites too.

276 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:35:55pm

re: #274 gmsc

And now, the top two "earworms" of all time:

Earworm #2

Earworm #1

I clicked on both of them and closed the window frantically before they started playing. :-)

277 Karridine  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:35:58pm

re: #242 garycooper

Gary, PLEASE personally thank your father for his service, from me...

I lost my father in July, he repaired planes in war-torn England, same time as your dad...

They won't be here much longer, Sir

278 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:36:01pm

re: #222 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know that you can slide guns in there. Your weapon is your best friend.

279 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:36:10pm

re: #271 Killgore Trout


Romania is still kicking our butts.

LMAO
That's hilarious but sad =/

280 LilyGecko  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:36:17pm

I might visit Turkey some day...

re: #271 Killgore Trout

281 ArmyWife  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:37:08pm

re: #204 A Kiwi Infidel

If you were walter, it wouldn't be lost on you - sorry, it we be a long time explaining.

282 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:37:27pm

re: #267 Slumbering Behemoth

See? I get dressed.

283 jcm  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:37:36pm

re: #274 gmsc

And now, the top two "earworms" of all time:

Earworm #2

Earworm #1

It's a Small World, still echoes 35 years after the ride.......

284 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:37:45pm

re: #252 J.D.

Oh yeah...I remember al-Guardian! Very apt.

285 swamprat  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:12pm

re: #271 Killgore Trout

Ah, here it is....
Public Acceptance of Evolution

Romania is still kicking our butts.

Malta is on the list. China is not. (?)

That is weird.

286 A Kiwi Infidel  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:27pm

re: #281 ArmyWife

If you were walter, it wouldn't be lost on you - sorry, it we be a long time explaining.

{In my best Irish accent}

Ah well tare we go den.

287 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:38pm

re: #276 gclaghorn

I clicked on both of them and closed the window frantically before they started playing. :-)

Just for that:

Earworm #3!

;)

288 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:40pm

re: #270 swamprat

If we aren't using fast breeder reactors for our power grid, then we aren't using "the most advanced technology available".

289 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:44pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

See? I get dressed.

Stuck that in my favorites.
=P

290 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:47pm

re: #270 swamprat

Ewwwwww...I can hear it now...

Did you ever read Michael Kelly? He was so good! ! !
"Good evening, and welcome to 'All Is Lost ...'"

"Good evening, and welcome to 'All Is Lost,' the nightly public affairs program produced by National Public Radio and the British Broadcasting Corp. Tonight we discuss what has been called America's war against terror. I am your host, Perfectly Modulated Voice of Reason.

"With me, in our Washington studio, are: Fabled Newsman Who Was There When Saigon Fell . . . Scientifically Trained Impartial Scholar . . . and Bureau Chief of Second-Rate Regional Monopoly Newspaper Who Is Desperate to Be Hired by the New York Times. From London, we are joined by our European affairs analyst, Loathes America and Prays for Its Swift Destruction.

"First, today's war news. Tens of thousands of Afghans in liberated Kabul greeted President George W. Bush with wild cheers and much waving of American flags. The mayor of Kabul, in a traditional gesture of welcome, presented President Bush with the head of Osama bin Laden on a pike. Accepting the gaily decorated head, Mr. Bush quipped: 'This shall not stand -- at least not without this handy pike!' Meanwhile, across the Middle East, news of the so-called allied victory in Afghanistan appeared to be producing remarkable changes in the political dynamic. Radical Islamic fundamentalism, as Western critics perhaps unfairly call it, seemed under attack. . . .

291 Throbert McGee  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:38:51pm

re: #128 gmsc

When I saw this post . . .

re: #27 buzzsawmonkey

Rumania, Rumania.


. . . another tune came to mind instead.

Heh! Thanks to both you and buzzsawmonkey (whose post #27 I hadn't seen, obviously) for those great YouTube links.

But the "Rumania, Rumania" song linked by BSM seems to be in Yiddish -- so "Dragostea Din Tei" (aka "Numa Numa," aka "Maya Hee, Maya Hoo," aka "The One With the Fat Kid Lip-Synching") stays in its slot as Rumanian's only known contribution to popular music.

(I was gonna say "Rumania's only known contribution to popular culture," but then I remembered Vlad Tepesh, without whom there would be no Nosferatu, no Blackula, and no Love at First Bite. Also, "Dragostea Din Tei" was by a Moldavan band, although sung in Rumanian.)

292 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:39:03pm

re: #232 Sharmuta

I quit playing with Barbies when I was 8, but I still get dressed.

what a shame.... %-)

293 LilyGecko  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:39:11pm

re: #274 gmsc

*shuts mouth*
Mmph. Mmph! Argh - Ha! Ha Ha!

That is funny. Those have never actually gotten stuck in my head.

294 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:39:25pm

re: #281 ArmyWife

If you were walter, it wouldn't be lost on you - sorry, it we be a long time explaining.

Hi Army wife. thanks for your kind post about my Marine Boy..
Regards

295 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:39:41pm

re: #266 HoosierHoops

You my friend need a Maxi-Vacation...
Great work Charles..

Ditto Charles! Mini-vacations are a lot better than nothing, but you need something better, like a week long vacation. Use the mini-vacs to build up performance of a assistant web-master and your moderators, then take off for a week! We appreciate all you do and want to keep you "online"!

296 FightingBack  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:39:58pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

In my family music was considered the ultimate waste of time....

It's no wonder you don't believe in God.

297 Flying Dutchman  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:40:39pm

re: #269 karmic_inquisitor

Hey - you can rate articles there without registering.

Anyone care to join me?

I think it's more important to try to get that site offline, go to DreamHost and post a link to mypetjawa on their blog : DreamHost Status so many of their customers will know who "their" company is hosting

298 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:41:09pm
299 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:41:29pm

re: #272 Basho

Thanks for the input. In the meantime, since I posted the question, my wife has informed that she has already purchased the Fit for L'il Darling #2, for Christmas. Guess I don't need to research it anymore. ;)

300 ArmyWife  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:41:50pm

pssstt...there is a techno thread upstairs. Its all greek to mere: #294 HoosierHoops

Oh don't thank me, you are so good to me about my husband, I am all about supporting our military guys and gals. Besides, those Marine uniforms? Oh baby! Makes you forget they are jarheads! ;)

301 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:42:15pm
302 swamprat  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:42:25pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

You clean up nice.

303 ArmyWife  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:42:26pm

re: #300 ArmyWife

Yikes - a combo quote there. PIMF and then some!

304 J.D.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:42:32pm

re: #300 ArmyWife

Me, too. All I know is it works better!

305 LilyGecko  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:42:33pm

Saw it. Took one look and felt it slipping over my head.
re: #300 ArmyWife

306 elkafir  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:45:17pm

re: #9 Russkilitlover

"The country of Romania takes a big step backwards"? From what? They brought down their dictator and his wife, but after that, they haven't exactly moved to the forefront of progressive government. They seem like they are still serfs.

How easy some people forget the unconditional and total support Romanians gave the United States by sending their troops to fight our Islamic enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan...

307 swamprat  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:45:21pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

And you make musical instruments. That's more than irony; that's beauty, that is.

308 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:46:04pm

re: #295 LoFlyer

Ditto Charles! Mini-vacations are a lot better than nothing, but you need something better, like a week long vacation. Use the mini-vacs to build up performance of a assistant web-master and your moderators, then take off for a week! We appreciate all you do and want to keep you "online"!

Did you hear? Did you Hear!
My Lord Loflyer..The most powerful fighting arm of the Marines the 3/5th are not deploying to afganistan next month..they are going to Japan and a cruise somewhere..There are thousands of parents fainting tonight...
Jordan was whinning about having to go on a ship to mom but we could hear the teasing in his voice..he HATES ships..
Something is afoot...why has everything changed? What is going on..

309 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:46:46pm
310 gmsc  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:49:44pm

Gateway Pundit welcome you, and invites you to vomit on yourself by showing you this:

All-Star Hollywood Cast Releases Proposition 8 Musical

All-Star Hollywood Cast Releases Mocks Gay Marriage Opponents in Horrid New Musical.

This is really bad.

(See more Jack Black videos at Funny or Die)

Via Breitbart.
What a bomb.

A gay rights protester holds a sign outside the Mormon Cathedral in Westwood in November.

Blacks overwhelmingly voted for Proposition 8 - banning gay marriage by a ratio of more than 2 to 1.

Related... The Sun-Sentinel reported today that most Americans (69%) favor gay adoptions.

311 garycooper  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:50:47pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

...and why not. LOL!

312 ArmyWife  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:50:52pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

It said it was inappropriate for me

313 LoFlyer  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:51:29pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

Did you hear? Did you Hear!
My Lord Loflyer..The most powerful fighting arm of the Marines the 3/5th are not deploying to afganistan next month..they are going to Japan and a cruise somewhere..There are thousands of parents fainting tonight...
Jordan was whinning about having to go on a ship to mom but we could hear the teasing in his voice..he HATES ships..
Something is afoot...why has everything changed? What is going on..

Yes I heard and replied mate, but you were so excited that you missed 'me reply. I share in your joy mate, and please pass a "well done" to your son! Thanks!

314 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:53:32pm

re: #309 buzzsawmonkey

If Killgore picked up a nice drinking habit, he could be a new Martini Luthier.

until he stepped on a rusty nail, and the resulting infection turned him into a zombie.

315 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:54:30pm
316 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:55:10pm
317 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:55:41pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

There is a punchline there somewhere, but I, alas, am missing it.

Well that's a first..I'll mark it down...
/ Hi Buzz!

318 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:56:24pm
319 Russkilitlover  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:57:44pm

re: #306 elkafir

How easy some people forget the unconditional and total support Romanians gave the United States by sending their troops to fight our Islamic enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan...

The Romanian people may give us their support and, for a while, so did their government. But a leopard does not change his spots very easily.

320 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:58:10pm

re: #318 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, there. I'm kind of preoccupied, and blind tired. So maybe there's some excuse.

There really is no excuse unless it's a knee injury...
/

321 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 6:59:38pm
322 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:00:11pm

re: #169 jcm

Every knows a rocket in space won't work, it has nothing to push against!
//

LMAO!
Just did a bit of research online. The NYT actually said that, hahahahahahaha!

From 1969 correction: "Further investigation and experimentation have confirmed the findings of Isaac Newton in the 17th century and it is now definitely established that a rocket can function in a vacuum as well as in an atmosphere. The Times regrets the error."

323 swamprat  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:01:40pm

re: #309 buzzsawmonkey

That was awful.

324 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:02:28pm
325 elkafir  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:04:32pm

re: #24 Russkilitlover

We (the West) tend to look on Romania as a progressive nation, especially since they dispatched their dictator with such fanfare; however, there is nothing in Romanian recent politics to indicate that this once Soviet-backward country has actually joined the 21st century.

This once Soviet-backward country was never Soviet. You seem to be pretty clueless for such an enlightened intellectual.
As for your claim that they never actually joined the 21st Century, why don't you better look at the pole sticking out from your own eye? Not that Romanians invented the communist ideology that ruined their country and killed millions. You know where that scourge came from, don't you Russkilitlover?

326 elkafir  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:06:42pm

re: #319 Russkilitlover

The Romanian people may give us their support and, for a while, so did their government. But a leopard does not change his spots very easily.

You're right. They're not the most reliable people. But at least you can always count on Russians to be scum.

327 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:07:15pm

re: #278 Iron Fist

That's kind of the point, though. Just as there are some that view adults who play video games as perennial children messing about with toys, there a some that view adults at a target range as arrested development goons still trying to play cowboys and indians. Both points of view are not just wrong, but ignorant, IMAO.

328 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:13:46pm

So why is a THEORY that a 20-something year old came up with after six weeks in the Galapagos islands given so much credence that people will believe that we all evolved from pond scum, lizards and monkeys? Who is really being foolish here?
The FACT of DNA points to a Designer, not blind chance. Do the math!

329 Moe Katz  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:14:38pm

The blogged article heading this thread is notable for its lack of background analysis. At whose behest is this being done? What are the forces for and against evolution teaching in this country?

330 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:15:31pm

re: #44 Charles

But seriously. This new web server is da bomb. At peak traffic time today with more 3,000 online, the load average never got above 0.87. Typical load average for that kind of activity with the old server was in the neighborhood of 4 to 6.

Lower numbers are better, and that's a hell of a percentage.

Charles -

Not only a hell of a percentage, seems to me like HALF an order of Magnitude.

-S-

331 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:17:15pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

I was hoping for something more thorough, like video evidence that illustrated the step-by-step process, from beginning to end, and back again.

332 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:19:28pm

re: #328 ceejaytoo

Gee- maybe evolution is given credence because 150 years of scrutiny and evidence support it. DNA evidence also supports evolution.

Also- you don't know what "theory" means in science apparently.

333 Basho  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:20:37pm

re: #328 ceejaytoo

Who is really being foolish here?

You.

334 Maine's Michael  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:22:07pm

"Romania? That's not a country. It's a profession."

- Attributed to the Emperor Franz Josef.

335 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:33:35pm

re: #328 ceejaytoo

So why is a THEORY that a 20-something year old came up with after six weeks in the Galapagos islands given so much credence that people will believe that we all evolved from pond scum, lizards and monkeys? Who is really being foolish here?
The FACT of DNA points to a Designer, not blind chance. Do the math!


Careful, there buddy. Voicing THAT opinion here may get you booted. The majority of the lizards here are vehemently anti-creationism and will give you copious amounts of grief, down dings and belittling for not accepting their pet theory as fact.

Berating another for not believeing as you do is bad mojo and a sign of insecurity in your own beliefs.

336 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:37:24pm

re: #190 Karridine

Logic? LOGIC? We don' nee' no steenk'n logic!

/we nee' steenk'n FEELINGS! :D

This reminded me of a funny movie clip I saw a few weeks back, and I have been wracking my brain trying to remember the name of the film.

Zombie Strippers (badges clip)

Not to worry, that clip is totally safe for work.

337 Salem  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:40:48pm

Wasn't Romania basically the last country to stop believing in vampires? Or did they ever stop?

338 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:41:41pm

re: #311 garycooper

ha!

339 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:43:47pm

re: #309 buzzsawmonkey

If Killgore picked up a nice drinking habit, he could be a new Martini Luthier.


If? My drinking rank is semi-pro.

340 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:44:16pm

re: #335 fclass308

There are some people posting here who are opposed to creation(ists) who are trying to sneak an end-run around the restrictions on introducing religious doctrines into high school science classes. Creation science was ruled unconstitutional 20 years ago, and the current purveyors of 'intelligent design'
are simply trying to dress it up in a new disguise.

It isn't science; doesn't belong in science class. It would be fine in Philosophy, or comparative Religions, but that's not what the effort of the intelligent design people is focused on.

341 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:44:39pm
342 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:45:59pm

re: #335 fclass308

Berating another for not believeing as you do is bad mojo and a sign of insecurity in your own beliefs.

Here I thought the sign of insecurity in one's beliefs was trying to mask that belief as science to make it more Truthy.

343 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:46:06pm

re: #335 fclass308

I'm thinking anti-idiotarian would have been a much better descriptor than anti-creationism, but what the hell. Pa-tay-toe, Puh-tah-toe, right?

Who cares, as long as we get to keep swinging these over-sized tar brushes around?

/sheesh

344 Thanos  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:46:37pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

Did you hear? Did you Hear!
My Lord Loflyer..The most powerful fighting arm of the Marines the 3/5th are not deploying to afganistan next month..they are going to Japan and a cruise somewhere..There are thousands of parents fainting tonight...
Jordan was whinning about having to go on a ship to mom but we could hear the teasing in his voice..he HATES ships..
Something is afoot...why has everything changed? What is going on..

Grats Hoops, very happy to hear.

345 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:49:31pm

re: #341 buzzsawmonkey

I've actually had to cut back recently because I started getting fat. I couldn't figure out why until a realized that I was consuming over 1,000 calories a day in wine for the past decade.

346 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:50:10pm

re: #340 jaunte

Fair points.
My heartburn is with the people who refuse to accept the teaching of both and letting the students decide. Both are theoretical and cannot be absolutely proven.

347 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:50:32pm
348 elkafir  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:50:39pm

re: #337 Salem

Wasn't Romania basically the last country to stop believing in vampires? Or did they ever stop?

No, they were the first country that made tons of money cashing in from foreign tourists who believe the vampires from Bram Stoker's novel really exist. It's an entire traveling industry that flourished there and they are making huge profits from gullible Westerners.

349 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:51:10pm

Everybody knows that not teaching science is only going to cause Romania to go backwards. What is wrong with these people? They need to leave their religion in their Churches.

350 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:51:17pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

Here I thought the sign of insecurity in one's beliefs was trying to mask that belief as science to make it more Truthy.


Nope.

351 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:51:17pm

re: #332 Sharmuta

Darwin said:
"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ exists which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
Do you know what the "theory" of irreducible complexity is? It is just as valid, as far as theories go, and it trumps Darwin's theory, as he said. Google it and see what it is all about before you discount it out of hand.

352 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:51:19pm

re: #345 Killgore Trout

You got semi-pro ranking for that? I think you cheated, or bribed the judges, or something.
/

353 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:51:53pm

re: #346 fclass308

Two points:
You can't teach a specific religious doctrine in public school; you would have to teach them all.
Science is not about proving something absolutely.

354 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:53:23pm

re: #346 fclass308

You are ignorant.


re: #351 ceejaytoo

Do you know what the "theory" of irreducible complexity is?

Yes, I do. It's called bullshit.

355 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:55:24pm

re: #346 fclass308

While we're at it, let's teach alchemy along with chemistry, astrology along with astronomy, santeria along with medicine, and let the students decide.
/

356 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:56:13pm

Creationists incoming!

357 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:57:12pm

re: #354 Sharmuta

And you are an arrogant blooter.

Quid pro quo, no?

358 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 7:57:57pm
359 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:00:01pm

re: #356 Charles

i would respectfully diagree, Charles. The anti-creationists have started this fight and we who believe otherwise are exercising our right to rebut what we construe as fascist attacks. nothing more, nothing less.

What say you?

360 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:00:19pm
361 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:01:21pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

re: #350 fclass308

I hate to say it Sharmuta, but Fclass is correct there. What you illustrate is not a sign of insecurity. It is certainly a sign of dishonesty, fraud, and a sinister lack of character, but not necessarily a sign of insecurity.

362 ElKafir  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:01:26pm

The clueless creationist who proposed the Big Bang theory.
A Catholic priest? But...but...but that's umpossible!

Talibans are in both camps my friends...

363 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:01:31pm

re: #357 fclass308

The Holocaust- there is much evidence to support the historical fact that it happened, yet there are Holocaust deniers. Perhaps we should present both sides and let the students decide, huh?

I called you ignorant because you are. You can either take the time to enlighten yourself and learn about evolution, or you can wallow in your ignorance.

364 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:02:02pm

Science is hard.

365 fiat_lux  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:02:36pm

Fclass, Ceejay, 2 days ago, still a newbie, my Karma was +19. Now it is -180. And I am not a creationist nor an id'ist. And I alone survived to tell thee.

366 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:02:59pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

Did you just compare a belief in the Genesis story to Holocaust denial?

367 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:03:10pm
368 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:03:49pm

re: #367 buzzsawmonkey

I think it meant here on LGF.

369 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:04:09pm

re: #359 fclass308

And there it is! Science refuting creationism is fascist!

Hey, guess what? Nazis banned Darwin. Now who's the fascist?

370 WrathofG-d  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:04:36pm

re: #367 buzzsawmonkey

Furthermore, you cannot deny that very often the discussions here re: Creationism/or I.D. become bashing sessions on religious belief. (ie: not that it shouldn't be taught in school, but that you are an idiot to believe it)

371 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:04:47pm

re: #366 WrathofG-d

No.

372 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:06:22pm
373 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:09:21pm

re: #359 fclass308

What is an 'anti-creationist'? From you're point of view.

374 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:11:08pm

re: #327 Slumbering Behemoth

I wasn't offended by what you said, only pointing out that there's a little more going on there. "Your weapon is your best friend" is jargon that, at least at one time, you'd be told in Boot Camp. That's not exactly where I heard it, but close enough, I guess. Weaponry can be a fun toy. When I was a kid, we used to play with gasoline a lot. Soak a tennis ball in gas, light it, and then throw it at each other. It's fun. Really.

And explosives are to die for. C4 is way better than firecrackers. I've only gotten to play with that once, and I doubt that I'll ever get to do it again.

You learn something every day you don't die. You are right that certain kinds of people look down their noses at people who are skilled with weapons. The feeling is mutual. It's a right nasty old world out there, and if you can't take care of yourself, there's probably not going to be many people around you who'll be able or willing to do it for you. If you are fortunate you'll be able to slide through most of the time, but you are at the mercy of anyone who decides to take an interest in you.

I don't have a lot of trust in the "goodwill of mankind" to get me through. Maybe it's because I've lived so long. Or maybe I've lived so long because.

375 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:11:14pm

re: #363 Sharmuta


sharmuta,

I understand evolution just fine, thank you very much.

If you would take off your blinders, you would see that I am not advocating one side or the other..... Merely the presentation of both sides of the argument.

what is your problem with that?

I know!...It isn't what you believe!

Hypocrisy defined.

376 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:12:39pm

re: #375 fclass308

My problem is that "teach both sides" is a canard. It's creationist code speak.

377 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:13:30pm

re: #44 Charles
Ahhhh.... The smell of new iron... or silicon.
Lower numbers... like the homeopath who forgot to take his medicine, and died of an overdose?

378 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:14:11pm

re: #375 fclass308

Both sides of the argument are being presented and discussed.
Just not in high school science class.

379 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:16:11pm

re: #373 Slumbering Behemoth


Behemoth....I define an anti-creationist as someone that refuses to even entertain, let alone accept, the idea that we and the world were created by God.

Plain and simple. Thanks for asking. :)

380 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:17:19pm

re: #379 fclass308

You're aware that the majority of people on this blog accept the veracity of evolution and believe in God both, right?

381 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:17:57pm

re: #379 fclass308

"...the idea that we and the world were created by God..."

This is not what the conflict around this subject is about.

382 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:18:27pm

re: #375 fclass308

Hypocrisy defined.

Yeah, if the D.I. were to get their way, we would see metric tons of 'hypocrisy defined' coming from their supporters the very minute that islamic creation theory got it's slice of the 'let the students decide' science classroom pie.

383 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:20:37pm

Creationists or evolutionists CANNOT PROVE their BELIEFS-- and I want to underline BELIEFS in BOTH cases----what I find to be frustrating is those who are unwilling to look at both sides in a fresh and unbiased manner.

384 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:20:47pm

re: #381 jaunte

"...the idea that we and the world were created by God..."

This is not what the conflict around this subject is about.

But... but.... Charles is attacking Christians! That must be what the conflict is about!

///

385 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:21:07pm

re: #380 Sharmuta


Actually, no.

The threads and commentary would indicate otherwise.

But far be it from me, a mere ignorant soul in a sea of enlightened sages, to argue your point.

386 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:21:18pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

Facisti!

387 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:23:30pm

re: #374 Iron Fist

You and I are pretty much on the same page when it comes to the importance of firearms. I did not get the impression you were offended, I just wanted to clarify that there are those who think an armed citizenry is irrelevant, and that guns are nothing more than loud toys for overgrown boys.

388 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:23:39pm

re: #383 ceejaytoo

Creationists or evolutionists CANNOT PROVE their BELIEFS-- and I want to underline BELIEFS in BOTH cases----what I find to be frustrating is those who are unwilling to look at both sides in a fresh and unbiased manner.

Hey- guess what? When Charles first started posting on ID- I didn't know what to think. I didn't know much about evolution and didn't see the problem with ID. The more I looked into it, though, the more I realized ID was a problem. I also came to be amazed at the evidence supporting evolution. If you think there isn't any "proof" you're either not looking, or are willfully clinging to your pre-existing beliefs.

389 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:23:39pm

re: #385 fclass308

"a mere ignorant soul in a sea of enlightened sages"

That kind of twistedness is just going to attract more abuse.

390 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:25:02pm

re: #379 fclass308

That sounds much more like an acreationist than an anti-creationist to me.

391 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:25:29pm

re: #388 Sharmuta

Enlighten me.

392 teleskiguy  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:26:32pm

Which would you prefer, a computer or a gun? The sharks outlived the dinosaurs, you know! -The Power of Lard

393 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:27:30pm

re: #383 ceejaytoo

As someone has no doubt told you already, a person does not need to BELIEVE in a scientific theory that comes with mountains of evidence.

394 J.S.  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:27:49pm

Brian Greene in one of his texts (iirc, it was "The Fabric of the Cosmos") devoted his introduction to a quote from Albert Camus (yes, that French existentialist)...Albert Camus suggested in The Myth of Sisyphus (I recall reading the Myth in my teens) that what everything boils down to is whether or not to commit suicide...and that answering the question about suicide was the only "philosophical question" worthy of pursuit...in other words, the queries put forward by physicists were secondary...and an understanding of the universe (or its properties, or how the universe operates) were irrelevant. For Brian Greene, the budding physicist, however, this struck him as "off the mark." (let me get Brian Greene's text)...ah yes, Here is what Greene writes (p. 5): "The overarching lesson that has emerged from scientific inquiry over the last century is that human experience is often a misleading guide to the true nature of reality. Lying just beneath the surface of the everyday is a world we'd hardly recognize....These developments are anything but details. Breakthroughs in physics have forced, and continue to force, dramatic revisions to our conception of the cosmos...And so whereas Camus separated out physical questions and labeled them secondary, I've becomes convinced that they're primary. For me, physical reality both sets the arena and provides the illumination for grappling with Camus' question...By deepening our understanding of the true nature of physical reality, we profoundly reconfigure our sense of ourselves and our experience of the universe." [emphasis added]

395 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:29:33pm

re: #389 jaunte

396 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:30:51pm

re: #391 ceejaytoo

Enlighten me.

On evolution or ID being a problem?

397 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:32:42pm

re: #389 jaunte

Good point.

I think I'll use this as a an excuse to retire for the night.

Thanks to all for the spirited debate. :)

398 fiat_lux  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:35:23pm

re: #397 fclass308

Discretion is the better part of valor. Godspeed.

399 fclass308  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:35:39pm

re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth


potaytoe/potahto....it's a matter of perception, my friend.

g'Night all. I am off to compete in a state long range rifle championship in th A.M. and need my rest.

400 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:36:23pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth

When the most insignificant living thing requires nearly 300 pages of a tertiary DNA instructions for its genetic code, the inescapable inference is intelligence, not random chance. The odds of all those exact factors combining in that very specific way are infinitesimal.

401 payneoftruth[deleted]  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:39:29pm
402 sparrowlake  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:42:22pm

We don't teach that the world is flat in science class - not because people believe or do not believe that a God did or did not create the world, but because we believe as a scientific fact that the world is round.

We shouldn't teach that woman was created from Adam's rib in science class - not because people do or do not believe that a God did or did not create woman, but because we believe as a scientific fact that woman was not created from Adam's rib.

To use religious beliefs to legitimize the denial of scientifically proven theories or facts is to seek to negate not only evolutionary theory but to negate and undermine the integrity of the scientific method itself.

403 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:43:53pm

re: #400 ceejaytoo

It certainly is an inference (as opposed to an implication), and one that some do find to be inescapable. But that does not change the observable facts nor the empirical evidence that support the theory of evolution.

Many folks here have said that scripture is the 'why' of creation, evolution is the 'how'. Do you think that those who believe their creator used evolution as a tool of creation are misguided? Full of it?

404 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:44:05pm
405 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:46:02pm

re: #401 payneoftruth

If you go back and read the relevant threads, there is a consistent pattern.

There is an organized political effort to disguise Creation Science in a new disguise "Intelligent Design" and insert a point of view that is religious in origin into high school science class. This is a violation of the Constitution, and will be defeated when lawsuits are brought against the school districts which fall for the ruse.

This is a very bad idea for both science and religion.

406 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:46:28pm
407 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:51:34pm

re: #401 payneoftruth

Is Charles' point of contention that people are intent on having creationism/intelligent design/etc. included in school curriculum or is he troubled that various interest groups are lobbying for the removal of evolution from schools?

What's the difference? Both are doing the same thing- thwarting biology education.

BTW- the islamists support this.

408 sparrowlake  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:53:30pm

re: #400 ceejaytoo

When the most insignificant living thing requires nearly 300 pages of a tertiary DNA instructions for its genetic code, the inescapable inference is intelligence, not random chance. The odds of all those exact factors combining in that very specific way are infinitesimal.

Are the odds of winning the Powerball lottery not practically infinitesmal? Yet there are eventual winners. Odds that seem infinitesmal are, given a sufficient number of tries, a certainty.

409 Naso Tang  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:55:10pm

Not to worry, there will always be jobs for Romanians in the EU. No "evolutionist" wants to be the one cleaning the toilets for tourists in Paris.

410 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:55:19pm

There are people on both sides of this issue (the issue of trans-species evolution) in all walks of life with vested interests in the keeping the status quo. There are people on both sides of the issue with sincere belief in their understanding of what they consider the facts. However. Facts and evidence sit there, but they don't come with neatly printed tags that tell us what they mean. It is our belief that colors how we interpret those facts, which ones we conveniently ignore, and which ones we connect to build our edifice. Just because we feel a discussion is settled, or a conclusion beyond dispute, does not mean that it is so.
I don't know if there is anyone who denies micro-evolution, and that adaptation occurs. But again and again this discussion moves beyond what we can observe to origins, and in that both sides move into the numinous. If we do not accept the existence of (a) God, we create something to replace Him.
There are also people on both sides who seem to be... either less skilled in interpersonal relationships, or less willing to invest the energy in being patient with people who might have spent less time looking at the data. On the other hand, some do make it easier than others to forbear.

A word to the hatchlings: if you value your karma, be civil.

411 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:56:43pm

Creationists climbing out of the woodwork!

412 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:58:53pm

re: #410 hillbilly geek

Using a phrase like "trans-species evolution" is a form of begging the question;
it assumes that, for example, evolutionary theory claims that 'man came from apes.' In the evidence found so far, man and apes diverged from a common ancestor.

413 Charles  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:59:25pm

Must be a factory somewhere.

414 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 8:59:56pm

Shoot, Charles, I was back to even on my karma! I had to say something!

415 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:00:33pm

re: #413 Charles

Must be a factory somewhere.

Maybe in Romania.

416 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:02:38pm

re: #412 jaunte
You're being picky. Whether we came from apes or not is not the point, and it was not what I said. One species changes into another.

417 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:03:33pm

re: #402 sparrowlake

Science is about evidence, and not shying away from wherever that evidence may lead. You would do well to study the great scientists of old, i.e. Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein...all of whom believed in an intelligent designer.Though they could not say anything concrete about that designer , except to marvel at the exactness of the design and the scientific laws evident in that design. All of these men discovered the laws that enabled things to be as they are, and as such are provable.Darwinism is unprovable. No missing links or transitional "species" have ever been found-- they simply don't exist. The Cambrian explosion accounts for all types and kinds of living things.

418 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:04:10pm

re: #416 hillbilly geek

One species changes into another.

That's the part I was pointing out as imprecise as far as the science has shown.

419 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:04:47pm

Somehow, I get the impression that the 'person' who penned this 'stuff' never heard the wise words of Lao Stinky.

/Yes, that's right folks. Science is the tool of Stan, evolution is a religion, and teaching it in schools will make children burn in hell.
//

420 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:05:42pm

And yes, I'm going to post and run. I'm on the right coast, and it's midnight, and I've danced this dance before. Nite, lizzards, nite Charles. Congrats on the server upgrade, seriously.

421 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:05:46pm

re: #417 ceejaytoo

Transitional Fossils FAQ

You might want better talking points.

422 sparrowlake  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:12:08pm

re: #410 hillbilly geek

If we do not accept the existence of (a) God, we create something to replace Him.

If one accepts that man can "create" something to replace God then who can prove that man did not create God?

423 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:12:55pm

re: #410 hillbilly geek

A word to the hatchlings: if you value your karma, be civil.

I realize you've gone, but I have to say this. This discussion isn't about civility. It's about facts. If you're going to join the discussion, bring facts. Be prepared to back up your claims and positions. Be prepared to be challenged if your facts are lacking.

424 Throbert McGee  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:13:42pm

re: #291 Throbert McGee

(I was gonna say "Rumania's only known contribution to popular culture," but then I remembered Vlad Tepes

Just to follow up on this: "Vlad the Impaler" is usually described as being the inspiration for Bram Stoker's Dracula -- both because Vlad had a reputation for impaling his enemies (who were Muslim Turks trying to invade Christian Rumania, although many people forget that little detail) and because he was nicknamed "Drăculea." But in Rumanian, "Drăculea" simply means "son of (the man who was nicknamed) Dracul" -- and his father's nickname "Dracul," in turn, signified nothing more sinister than "a member of the medieval, noblemen-only Christian fraternity known as the Order of the Dragon.")

Anyway, Vlad Drăculea is also known as "Vlad Tepes", or more pedantically "Vlad Ţepeş" with little Rumanian squiggles under the "t" and "s" -- but I found out by Googling tonight that (a) Ţepeş, which I used to think was his last name, just means "the Impaler" in Rumanian, and (b) you say it TSEH-pish.

425 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:14:45pm

re: #419 Slumbering Behemoth

Ouch. Yes, Chick tracts are the equivalent of... well. They're embarrassing.
My theory is that he's really an atheist trying to make us Christians look bad. But most of us do a good enough job on our own.

re: #418 jaunte

Yes, but what is a species but a label we've put on a group of similar animals that don't seem to interbreed with other groups? Man trying to organize his world. That was how... was it Linnaeus? did it early on. Now, we can look at things like DNA...
A dog doesn't know he's a member of a species, all he knows is that this little poodle over there smells reeeealy interesting...

Aarrg. Must.. go... leave ... computer....

426 sparrowlake  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:14:56pm

re: #417 ceejaytoo

Science is about evidence, and not shying away from wherever that evidence may lead. You would do well to study the great scientists of old, i.e. Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein...all of whom believed in an intelligent designer.Though they could not say anything concrete about that designer , except to marvel at the exactness of the design and the scientific laws evident in that design. All of these men discovered the laws that enabled things to be as they are, and as such are provable.Darwinism is unprovable. No missing links or transitional "species" have ever been found-- they simply don't exist. The Cambrian explosion accounts for all types and kinds of living things.

Show me where any of those scientists stated a belief that God actually created woman from Adam's rib.
Galileo was killed by the religious whackos.

427 fiat_lux  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:17:12pm

re: #421 Sharmuta

WTF? Can you redact this into something concise enough to support your point?

428 hillbilly geek  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:17:18pm

re: #426 sparrowlake

Wikipedia article: linky
At the time of Galileo's trial, the dominant view among theologians, philosophers and scientists was that the Earth is stationary, indeed the center of the universe. Galileo's adversaries brought the charge of heresy, then punishable by death, before the Inquisition. Since Galileo recanted, he was only put under house arrest until his death, nine years after the trial.

429 ceejaytoo  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:18:22pm

re: #421 Sharmuta

What proves that the fauna listed are "transitional" and not one-of -a kind? I have no problem with slight modifications over time--but there should be tons of these transitional "species" in the fossil record-- and they are noticeably absent.

430 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:21:34pm

re: #427 fiat_lux

Science is teh hard.

431 jaunte  Wed, Dec 3, 2008 9:22:57pm