It's enough! Will someone quote Rambo to these dolts, please:

"It's over, Johnny. It's over!"

I wonder how many of them also support euro-fascists.

re: #2 Sharmuta

I wonder how many of them also support euro-fascists.

Just a shot in the dark: 101%?

OT Alert:

LA LIZARDS, Please check this out.

YOU MAY NOT RETURN TO YOUR REGULARY SCHEDULED THREAD.

Charles ~ Is it the same guy who gave you a heap of crap in a recent email?

Morons.

The state of Hawaii debunked this question months ago.

I wish they'd get a frickin' life.

re: #6 Steffan

Or better yet, go back to Ronulus.

The creeps at Media Matters absolutely love that some so-called "right-wing" bloggers are still obsessed with this bogus story. It's a gift to them.

Yeah- Troofers, Paulians, some fascist sympathizers- a real cluster f*ck of kookiness. Glad LGF has steered clear of it.

re: #6 Steffan

Morons.

The state of Hawaii debunked this question months ago.

I wish they'd get a frickin' life.

But then they'd have to move out of their parent's basement! "Ma! The meat loaf!"

re: #8 Charles

The creeps at Media Matters absolutely love that some so-called "right-wing" bloggers are still obsessed with this bogus story. It's a gift to them.

"Media Matters." Now there's a contradiction in terms.

It is the full measure of desperation, these attempts. Pathetique.

It ain't going to be over until the Supreme Court declines to hear the pending "Nirth Certifikit" case.

/and so far, they've been taking their sweet time about it

re: #12 rawmuse

Pathetique.

You sound quite apassionata about it.

JF@ckin'Kerry not releasing his Military Records was a valid argument.

Obambi not releasing his nirth certifikat is not.

There is a silver lining here. The more they speak, the more they expose themselves. Believers in the idiotic always have the solace that the rest of the world, and not themselves, is crazy. Give them a white hot spotlight and let them speak.

The more they speak the less we have to.

re: #8 Charles

Yeah, and all right wing blogs are in lock step, at least to those who get everything they know about the right wing from sites like Media Matters (i.e. most of the left "intelligentsia").

Many of these folks are the ones who wouldn't vote for McCain because he didn't pass their "true conservative" test...I don't know if they are now in a panic because their refusal to vote GOP helped elect Obama, or if it's just continuing evidence of their insanity.

Okay, if by some bizarre stroke of alien lightning craft Obama was disqualified, then wouldn't Joe Biden become president-elect?

I'm not sure what would happen, of course, I just haven't noticed it being addressed.

President Biden is far more terrifying than even President Obama.

re: #8 Charles

The creeps at Media Matters absolutely love that some so-called "right-wing" bloggers are still obsessed with this bogus story. It's a gift to them.

Media Matters must be wetting their pants over this. It's beyond just kook blogs. A few otherwise sane talk radio shows have been giving this nonsense too much (read: any) time as well. I've found myself listening to music more in my car the last couple of weeks than I have for awhile.

re: #16 Dainn

There is a silver lining here. The more they speak, the more they expose themselves. Believers in the idiotic always have the solace that the rest of the world, and not themselves, is crazy. Give them a white hot spotlight and let them speak.

The more they speak the less we have to.

Well, their ranting that Hillary Clinton somehow gave the US Secret Service the slip so she could drive Vince Foster to that park to shoot him didn't get them declared persona non grata by folks like Karl Rove, so I don't know that Obama trooferism will do much either, unfortunately.

Ron Paul 1908! We should investigate the Maine sinking! Are our sky scrapers protected from giant ape attacks i think not. Vote Ron Paul 1908

re: #20 ArchangelMichael

Actually, any talk radio person who outs themselves over this story is doing us all a favor, IMHO.

Oh, for f***s sake, will this ever die?

re: #19 kynna I don't know if Biden would become President, I DO know that there would be rioting in the streets of a kind we've never seen before.

I understand your point Charles. That said, I don't want someone who's not qualified to run the congressional cafeteria to be POTUS. It would be karma since Obama has a pattern of using the courts to disqualify opponents. Ain't gonna happen. Rats.

Sorry for the disagreement...I think his failure to provide indisputable proof of US citizenship is a problem.

re: #14 Moe Katz

You sound quite apassionata about it.

It's sonata what you think...

re: #8 Charles

The creeps at Media Matters absolutely love that some so-called "right-wing" bloggers are still obsessed with this bogus story. It's a gift to them.

These are clingers of the third kind.

re: #21 funky chicken

See- it's the Hillary factor that really gets me about this "story". Does anyone really think think that the Clintons would allow this? If they had the goods on 0bama not being a Constitutionally viable candidate, they would have used that information. And- as little as I think of the DNC, I don't think they're stupid enough to allow a candidate who is not qualified (by Constitutional standards) to win the nomination. The whole thing is just stupid.

Great find, and anyone talking about birth certificates now can be duly pointed at and laughed about.

The VERY last thing I want to be true right now is for Obama's birth certificate to be faked, or fraudulent, or something that will get him tossed as President. Why? Even though I do not like the man one iota? Because it would be bad for my country, it would be bad for my fellow citizens, and it would be bad for the rule of law, because they probably would not disqualify him.

And then what? Biden as President? That would be probably worse.

re: #28 rawmuse

It's sonata what you think...

I was afraid you'd Spring that on me

doesn’t it bother you just a little bit that you’re joining forces with Paulians and 9/11 Truthers?

That's exactly why I've pretty much disregarded this recently...I try not to partake in these conspiracy theories and it certainly is more disgusting with the 9/11 truthers.

I will admit that I was on the wagon in the beginning, but that's only because so much of Obama's life is already is already such a mystery that I was hoping that something like this could really be true...

Poop.

re: #32 banner

The VERY last thing I want to be true right now is for Obama's birth certificate to be faked, or fraudulent, or something that will get him tossed as President. Why? Even though I do not like the man one iota? Because it would be bad for my country, it would be bad for my fellow citizens, and it would be bad for the rule of law, because they probably would not disqualify him.

And then what? Biden as President? That would be probably worse.

Maybe the are counting on this attitude...

Nirth certifitians, troofers, media matters, paulians, euro-fascists - yep, it's getting pretty crowded out there in the intellectually and morally bankrupt fringe.

re: #33 Moe Katz

I was afraid you'd Spring that on me

Is the full moonlight encouraging these puns?

re: #33 Moe Katz

I was afraid you'd Spring that on me

Are you guys fuguing around?

Charles

The creeps at Media Matters absolutely love that some so-called "right-wing" bloggers are still obsessed with this bogus story. It's a gift to them.

I'm a right winger (more or less) who really dislikes Obama (aka The One), but these right wing wackos bug the hell out of me. Yes, ODS does the other side no favors. Stick to issues. If Obama and the Congress do something stupid (I should say "when"), then talk about that. No one wants to hear about stupid conspiracy type things.

re: #36 Athos

Nirth certifitians, troofers, media matters, paulians, euro-fascists - yep, it's getting pretty crowded out there in the intellectually and morally bankrupt fringe.

And that's troubling in and of itself.

Biden would become president. That is, unless he isn't really a citizen. I'm sure he'll produce a "valid" birth certificate, but isn't that what we would expect him to do? So he will have to go as well. Then it would fall to Nancy Pelosi, who probably will resist giving proof of her citizenship as well. Rinse and repeat until you elect Ron Paul, by default.

America can't handle the troof!

I should say ODS does THEIR side no favors. It helps the other side.

Time for me to get some sleeps, see you on the morrow.

A song for the nirth certroofers

re: #25 realwest

I don't know if Biden would become President, I DO know that there would be rioting in the streets of a kind we've never seen before.

Realwest, what is your product number (it will be on a label on the back)?

re: #41 Dainn

Biden would become president. That is, unless he isn't really a citizen. I'm sure he'll produce a "valid" birth certificate, but isn't that what we would expect him to do? So he will have to go as well. Then it would fall to Nancy Pelosi, who probably will resist giving proof of her citizenship as well. Rinse and repeat until you elect Ron Paul, by default.

America can't handle the troof!

Are you listening to yourself? Who sounds kooky here?

re: #36 Athos

Nirth certifitians, troofers, media matters, paulians, euro-fascists - yep, it's getting pretty crowded out there in the intellectually and morally bankrupt fringe.

Don't forget the Solutrean troofers, there's a few of them about as well.

re: #32 banner

The VERY last thing I want to be true right now is for Obama's birth certificate to be faked, or fraudulent, or something that will get him tossed as President. Why? Even though I do not like the man one iota? Because it would be bad for my country, it would be bad for my fellow citizens, and it would be bad for the rule of law, because they probably would not disqualify him.

And then what? Biden as President? That would be probably worse.

You don't think it would be worse to have him as president?

I simply can't imagine the consequences of his presidency in the next four years...this a crucial time and I believe that Islamic Radicalism and the Muslim's war on the west will become much more apparent, if not blown into a full war. I can't stand having this guy in office when that happens.

re: #37 revobob

Is the full moonlight encouraging these puns?

No, I'm just completely Hammerklaviered (sorry)

re: #45 bmorte

Are you listening to yourself? Who sounds kooky here?

LOL. I was being sarcastical. Too subtle?

Here's just one difference between media matters and us...media matters sees trooferism on the lunatic right and the luncatic left and points ridicules the right because of it...but they are silent about the troofers from the lunatic left.

We, on the other hand, ridicule both the lunatic fringes.

So, which one is more credible and consistent? Hint, it ain't media matters.

There was a truther at my polling place on election day. I teased him, and he got annoyed with me. There was also one Obama person.

It was raining cats and dogs, so the usual crowd harassing you on the way in was missing.

Troof is out there... really ouuut there. g'nite

It won't fly and it is again waste of money and resources. Sen. Obama is now elected president and nothing is going to change this fact. And I think the truthers won't get over it any ways.

re: #49 Dainn

LOL. I was being sarcastical. Too subtle?

no "/" ...

i have the same problem sometimes..

Listen, I've been working on the ground for our side for months, which is why this is my first post in quite a while. I just got back from Georgia, in fact, helping Saxby to get reelected. Let me tell you this:

The Republican Party needs some serious, real leadership. At the grassroots level there are so many different factions and ideological subsets that there is no way any local candidate can bring them all together effectively, let alone a national candidate. Do you want to know why McCain lost? It wasn't because of the Black vote for Obama, nor was it because of the youth vote for Obama. It was because there are so many people out there in the Rep. Party who have become so childish as Democrats as to cling unwaveringly to a single issue - be it abortion, religion, economics, what-have-you - that there is no unifying this entire party.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I'm tired of people who believe abortion is an abomination (normally I would consider myself among their ranks) telling me that they won't vote for candidates who believe in exceptions for rape or incest. I'm tired of people who won't vote for anyone who doesn't have a 100% Union voting record. No matter what the viewpoint, I'm tired of anyone who demands ideological purity of any candidate.

To this end, if you know anyone who is still waiting for some mythical power to come and strike down Obama's election, please smite them. They deserve it.

re: #13 Killian Bundy

It ain't going to be over until the Supreme Court declines to hear the pending "Nirth Certifikit" case.

/and so far, they've been taking their sweet time about it

It wont matter. When the SCOTUS throws this garbage out, these raving moonbats will still be yammering about it for years. It's the far-right's version of the "Bush stole the election in 2000" meme that lefty moonbats still take as gospel.

NOT that it's relevent, because this BC thing is going nowhere, but here's the twentieth amendment to the Constitution which deals with this issue:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Regardless of the resulting chaos and commotion, the TRUTH must be found. I am not saying that I believe that Obama is not qualified to become President. The fact is, I do not know for certain because he has not provided indisputable proof. Why should we, the American people, not demand what the Constitution clearly requires?

re: #40 Sharmuta

And that's troubling in and of itself.

The greatest strength of the blogoshere is also its greatest weakness. Unrestricted freedom of expression means total freedom to try to pass off idiocy as reason.

Well we don't need the birth certificate!

The Constitution bars him on account of his age! Did anyone notice how he went on "vacation" around the time of the Olympics? Did anyone realize that Hawai'i is half way from Washington DC to Beijing? That is right - Barack Obama was on the Chinese "womens" gymnastics team! HE IS ACTUALLY A GIRL ONLY 14 YEARS OLD DISCOVERED IN A GYM IN MANCHURIA! "His" name is Ma Lame Lim! The Barack Obama you see everyday is an expensive holographic projection maintained by a team of Chinese engineers! HE IS TRULY THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE!

You skeptics can laugh, but ask yourself "Who benefits?"

re: #48 Moe Katz

No, I'm just completely Hammerklaviered (sorry)

Are you trying to stir up treble?

To all the Paulians, Troofers, and others still thinking that anyone cares about them...
"You're a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity."
--Buzz Lightyear

re: #50 Athos

Here's just one difference between media matters and us...media matters sees trooferism on the lunatic right and the luncatic left and points ridicules the right because of it...but they are silent about the troofers from the lunatic left.

We, on the other hand, ridicule both the lunatic fringes.

So, which one is more credible and consistent? Hint, it ain't media matters.

MM only exists to sell the point of view that the media is biased against liberals. I admire their dogmatic stubornness; they keep it up even after the more one-sided blatent media biased election in modern history.

re: #61 gmsc

Are you trying to stir up treble?

No, it was only a Tempest in a teapot.

re: #55 BGOH

Damned right on that. Updings a plenty.

OT -WSJ is reporting that The Tribune Company- owners of the Chicago Tribune and LA Times newspaper is likely to file for bankruptcy this week.

Declining circulation and advertising revenues are said to be major reasons for the financial crisis.

Followup questions - When will the NYT Company follow this lead? and, Do you think they relate the quality of their reporting to the declining readership?

Updings for anyone that can do something with Waldstein.

re: #27 bmorte

Sorry for the disagreement...I think his failure to provide indisputable proof of US citizenship is a problem.

Never gets old, does it?
No matter how you slice it he was born here.
In the 57th state.
Ma was not married. For once there is someone he is unwilling to throw under the bus; really it's kinda refreshing (she's not the ma I knew...no way that would fly!).
I'm sure that by the time his presidency is over, he will have been called the invective implied on the unseen certificate, many, many times.
In the meantime, those anti-static bags in which electronic parts are shipped make an attractive and rather stylish replacement for the aluminum foil that is rapidly becoming passe'.

Of course the Left-wingers are pretending it's a hoot ... if it is true then their messiah will be crucified. But you can be sure they're terrified - because it is indeed plausible that Obama is not in fact a US citizen.

Can you imagine ... Hope Incarnate dismissed for a (trivial) technicality? Proof indeed that Satan runs the world! I say "Kudos" to you kooks who persist. If you're right it's a stinging blow to some of the stupidest people registered to vote ("Obama lied?") if you're wrong ... oh well, at least you tried to shine some light on a cloudy day.

Sorry Charlie, but these Leftist yuks should not intimidate you - they are simply covering their worst of fears: The fraud being exposed.

In my many years of dealing with Leftists, I've discovered that unquestioned fraud is their favorite ally. Whether it's the cheap ad hominems against non-Leftists or a complete reconstruction of reality, they thrive on unquestioned, group-validated, delusion. Yet the heart knows the truth, and even they must suspect that there's something rotten from Chi town.

It's true that "politics makes strange bedfellows" and there are undoubtedly more bizarre alliances than center-right and the conspiracy minded ultras. Give 'em a break, I spend a few bucks on the lottery myself.

Fermata, dear lizards. I must have a luftpause.
Now, please vamp until ready.

re: #60 karmic_inquisitor
You skeptics can laugh, but ask yourself "Who benefits?"

I didn't notice it before, but you are right. All those flipflops! Why didn't I see it before. Troof will out!

re: #44 Cattt I went to that American Flag site and tried to download it and got a message that the file is corrupted!
Crap.
I can't read the number tonight - it's a black box (the computer) with teeeny little writing on it and I'd have to heft it all over to get the product number.

To those of you still clinging desperately to the hope that this story will be a magic bullet that disqualifies Obama from being president: doesn’t it bother you just a little bit that you’re joining forces with Paulians and 9/11 Truthers?

amen

Desperately Seeking Purpose...

re: #64 Moe Katz

No, it was only a Tempest in a teapot.

I guess as long as we stay bassed in reality.

If only Chuck Jones were part of this conversation!
;)

re: #59 Spare O'Lake

The greatest strength of the blogoshere is also its greatest weakness. Unrestricted freedom of expression means total freedom to try to pass off idiocy as reason.

You could not be more correct.

re: #71 Dainn

You skeptics can laugh, but ask yourself "Who benefits?"

I didn't notice it before, but you are right. All those flipflops! Why didn't I see it before. Troof will out!

Tell your friends!

re: #74 Summersong

Try "the purpose driven life".
It helped out two people at least.
Never read it.

if it were true I would be dancing in the street. Sadly, it isnt. We got to let it go. For better or worse (definitely worse) he won.

weet dreams all!

Last Christmas we got a Ron Paul Christmas card from one of our customers. She's a nice airhead type who probably thought for the first time in her life she could "connect" with us, since Ron and we are Republicans. I don't know where it is but wonder if I could sell it on Ebay? LOL

It's one thing to take on the left with reason, facts, and a cogent argument - it's another to use the same bankrupt and failed tactics of the left.

Does anyone honestly think that this campaign would have started at all if it could be invalidated just because of a nirth certifikat? Have we totally lost our ability to apply reason and instead just react like the ideologues we fight?

Doing so costs more than just a lost argument. The lost credibility is not so easy to recover.

re: #72 realwest

I went to that American Flag site and tried to download it and got a message that the file is corrupted!
Crap.
I can't read the number tonight - it's a black box (the computer) with teeeny little writing on it and I'd have to heft it all over to get the product number.

OK. I understand that - I'm myopic myself.

HP's Web site has manuals for their products online. They should include info about the keyboard.

What I'm thinking is you have shortcut keys on one side - you can set them yourself.

Can you read the writing on the keys?

Want to wait until tomorrow? Get a little light on the subject?

re: #80 ggt

weet dreams all!

Good night!

re: #65 karmic_inquisitor

Thank you.

And for the record, I have missed all of you Lizards. I have checked in on Charles' posts on almost a daily basis, but I've not had the time to engage in any discussions. Hopefully I'll get back in the groove soon.

I have several walled steins. And some drawered steins, boxed steins, and one in the fridge

re: #85 BGOH

Thank you.

And for the record, I have missed all of you Lizards. I have checked in on Charles' posts on almost a daily basis, but I've not had the time to engage in any discussions. Hopefully I'll get back in the groove soon.

groove away. many here are with you on this.

re: #84 gmsc

'nite, 'weet dreams.

Blair's Law in action.

John Kerry required a "honorable discharge" to be issued years after he left the service for obvious reasons. He shamelessly smeared Bush, who served honorably, and collaborated with Communist regimes in the decades following his efforts to aid the North Vietnamese.

Now... Barack Hussein Obama is being shielded by the MainStreamMedia in his efforts to duplicate that Goebellian smear by going after McCain for being born in Panama while refusing to release his own birth certificate to meet Constitutional requirements for his election to the Presidency.

You and I have to present our birth certificate for employment and ID... why shouldn't he? Why won't he?

Saner writers pooh-pooh this issue but I find it illustrative of Barack Hussein Obama's arrogance as it wouldn't even be an issue if he wasn't an asshole.

re: #83 Cattt Yep gonna wait til tomorrow! Right side "keys" look like controls for CD/DVD I have no clue about left side.
I also download the flag from the other site you gave me and it works! YEA!
Is there anyway to move it on my monitor to a more convenient location?

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do not completely buy in to the belief that Obama is not eligible to be POTUS. I just want to know why no one has insisted that he give indisputable proof that he is eligible. I am a conservative and an educated political scientist. The American people would ask this of any other candidate and so why not Obama?

re: #82 Athos

Have we totally lost our ability to apply reason and instead just react like the ideologues we fight?

Watch where you sling that "we." You could put an eye out.

There are reasonable people on both sides of any issue. Stupidity is its own party, and both wingnuts and moonbats are lifetime members.

re: #87 karmic_inquisitor

I know that, and that is why I love this group. I just hope there are enough of us to make a difference within the GOP.

As a bit of constructive criticism of us Lizards, though, I do have to say that we need to be ready and willing to support a guy like Bobby Jindal despite perceived transgressions on individual issues. If we don't, we are no better than the abortion lunatics. That is the only thing that worries me about the Lizard Army.

re: #94 BGOH

That is the only thing that worries me about the Lizard Army.

What about the Lizard Air Force?

re: #94 BGOH

I've agreed with what you've posted on this thread, but I draw the line at bobby jindal. He's part of the problem, not the solution.

re: #95 Moe Katz

What about the Lizard Air Force?

In Obama's America, the Lizard Air Force raids you. I am no worry about Lizard Air Force.

Are there any Los Angeles lizards here? Why did I see the stealth bomber flying low, beneath the clouds, around 2:00 PM today? Pearl Harbor day or what? Been looking on the online news and didn't find anything.

It was so cool!

re: #82 Athos

It's one thing to take on the left with reason, facts, and a cogent argument - it's another to use the same bankrupt and failed tactics of the left.

Does anyone honestly think that this campaign would have started at all if it could be invalidated just because of a nirth certifikat? Have we totally lost our ability to apply reason and instead just react like the ideologues we fight?

Doing so costs more than just a lost argument. The lost credibility is not so easy to recover.

Come now, you can provide a better argument. There are serious power mongers out there who are quite skilled at obfuscating reality on numerous levels. You see, my bottom line is that I know Obama is way full of sh*t and that troofers tend to be misguided. If you subtract misguided from way full of sh*t you get willful deception. The point is that I see the troofers as the lesser of two evils so they get my vote here.

Sometimes there just is no good best choice.

re: #96 Sharmuta

I've agreed with what you've posted on this thread, but I draw the line at bobby jindal. He's part of the problem, not the solution.

Because of the ID issue, or is it something more? Because if it isn't, then I have to ask why this one issue is so much more important than any other. If it is more than that, and I am out of touch (which is entirely possible at this point), I'm willing to admit that I am wrong and back away.

re: #88 Pvt Bin Jammin

'nite, 'weet dreams.

I'm not going anywhere. I was saying good night to ggt!

re: #92 bmorte Because more than 66 Million Americans WANT HIS bullshit hope and Change and frankly I don't think it would matter to enough of them if he is or isn't a qualified "citizen" to hold the office of POTUS.
Is that right - no.
Is that how it is> - Yes, absolutely.

re: #97 BGOH

In Obama's America, the Lizard Air Force raids you. I am no worry about Lizard Air Force.

There's a whole new line of jokes here - anybody have a list of Yakov Smirnoff's "In Soviet Russia..." jokes?

re: #98 Pvt Bin Jammin
Hi PBJ! Uh, you SAW a Stealth bomber? That's not a good thing for us or the Air Force! LOL!

re: #94 BGOH

As a bit of constructive criticism of us Lizards, though, I do have to say that we need to be ready and willing to support a guy like Bobby Jindal despite perceived transgressions on individual issues. If we don't, we are no better than the abortion lunatics. That is the only thing that worries me about the Lizard Army.

I admit it would be hard for me to vote for Bobby Jindal because of his various stances on scientific issues. But I have heald my nose in more than one election, and in the end it often comes down to making the lesser of two bad choices. TBH, I don't know much about him and if he runs I'll do my homework. Pushing ID/Creationism in schools is a big negative though, so he better wow me in other areas.

Dogma is for people who don't want to decide for themselves.

re: #78 swamprat

Try "the purpose driven life".
It helped out two people at least.
Never read it.

Ha! I wasn't talking 'bout myself...

re: #101 gmsc

Sorry, nite to my friend, ggt.

I won't be long for the world either, but still here.

re: #58 bmorte

The fact is, I do not know for certain because he has not provided indisputable proof.

So, does he have to do . . . bring a birth certificate to your house (and every one else's who questions his validity)?

Seriously, what would it take to convince you?

re: #100 BGOH

It's mostly the stealth creationist bill he signed into law. It's fundamentally at odds with our Constitution, and it alone would cost him a national election.

Then there's his exorcism. Nationally- it's an albatross.

He's not the guy- we need to get over it now so we can move on and find a nationally viable candidate.

re: #105 Dainn

I admit it would be hard for me to vote for Bobby Jindal because of his various stances on scientific issues. But I have heald my nose in more than one election, and in the end it often comes down to making the lesser of two bad choices. TBH, I don't know much about him and if he runs I'll do my homework. Pushing ID/Creationism in schools is a big negative though, so he better wow me in other areas.

Dogma is for people who don't want to decide for themselves.

This I understand, but I must submit that we don't elect our leaders to be ideological leaders, we only demand that role of them. Unfortunately, I think, we on the right do too much of that brand of demanding these days. Especially for the presidency, we elect people (or SHOULD, for that matter) based upon their ability to lead in an executive position. I hate to make this a Bobby Jindal discussion - and the crux of the conversation is not exclusive to him - but I would vote for him for president of the universe after watching his post-hurricane press conference last year, even if he believed that turning around three times fast, dancing a jig, and farting twice would result in pigs flying out of his butt.

I hear you! Since when does that make a true American citizen sit back and exclaim "Oh well!" the numbers are against us! There are those of us who will continue to insist on proof of elegibility until all options fail. Should we be considered kooks? Maybe we are climbing an uphill battle and maybe we will fail, but the question SHOULD be asked! It is a simple question and it is required by the Constitution of the United States. Is Obama eligible or not. We should ask this question of all who seek the POTUS. It should be quite simple for him to provide indisputable proof. Why does he not?

re: #102 realwest

Because more than 66 Million Americans WANT HIS bullshit hope and Change and frankly I don't think it would matter to enough of them if he is or isn't a qualified "citizen" to hold the office of POTUS.
Is that right - no.
Is that how it is> - Yes, absolutely.

re: #107 Pvt Bin Jammin
Hey PBJ - you gonna answer or commwnr on my #104?

re: #104 realwest

I kid you not...low and slow, rumbled for awhile, finally came below the clouds. I loved it! We have it a lot of flyovers here in the Pasadena Rose Bowl area but it is way to early for Rose Parade practice. We had fighters yesterday for the dud UCLA/USC game but this was a Sunday and I was surprised. The only other game I watched was Army/Navy, my team won, but what a drag of a game.

re: #98 Pvt Bin Jammin

Are there any Los Angeles lizards here? Why did I see the stealth bomber flying low, beneath the clouds, around 2:00 PM today? Pearl Harbor day or what? Been looking on the online news and didn't find anything.

It was so cool!

I live in the Antelope Valley and we see the B2 almost weekly. It does make an impression, doesn't it. When it approaches, it is a sliver, barely visible. Then it turns and you see that batwing profile. And only we get to see it: our enemies never get the privilege.

re: #91 realwest

Yep gonna wait til tomorrow! Right side "keys" look like controls for CD/DVD I have no clue about left side.
I also download the flag from the other site you gave me and it works! YEA!
Is there anyway to move it on my monitor to a more convenient location?

Hey - Here are the directions to move your flag -

Right click on the flag in the sidebar, and choose "detach."

The flag flies off the sidebar. Right click the flag again, then use your arrow keys to move it to where you want it. Left click when you get it where you want it.

Be careful - if you click on it a couple of times fast, it plays the National Anthem.

re: #67 Moe Katz

Updings for anyone that can do something with Waldstein.

"Waldstein Matilda, Waldstein Matilda,
Will you come a-Waldstein Matilda with me?"

/runs and hides

re: #112 realwest
PIMF: comment - I really am not used to this new keyboard, sorry!

re: #109 Sharmuta

It's mostly the stealth creationist bill he signed into law. It's fundamentally at odds with our Constitution, and it alone would cost him a national election.

Then there's his exorcism. Nationally- it's an albatross.

He's not the guy- we need to get over it now so we can move on and find a nationally viable candidate.

Listen, I'm not saying that he is the guy; however, I am using him as an example of the type of person that we can not exclude from our support out-of-hand based simply on one ideological issue.

What happened with Mitt Romney this last year? Was he not pure enough of "moral" or abortion issues? In March, apparently. But, how good would he have looked after September 15th. He would be our friggin' president right now. This is the short-sightedness within the party that I am talking about.

re: #94 BGOH

I know that, and that is why I love this group. I just hope there are enough of us to make a difference within the GOP.

As a bit of constructive criticism of us Lizards, though, I do have to say that we need to be ready and willing to support a guy like Bobby Jindal despite perceived transgressions on individual issues. If we don't, we are no better than the abortion lunatics. That is the only thing that worries me about the Lizard Army.

I have moaned and bitched about people getting parochial in the party. So even with my qualms, I would support the guy. That is what a party is about.

re: #115 Cattt
Hey, thanks a lot Cattt!

Gotta go - on a plane about to take off. cya

re: #111 bmorte

I hear you.

re: #108 pseudoFred

The fact is, I do not know for certain because he has not provided indisputable proof.

So, does he have to do . . . bring a birth certificate to your house (and every one else's who questions his validity)?

Seriously, what would it take to convince you?

Give me a break! No! He should provide a REAL birth certificate. The same thing that all US Citizens must provide to get a passport or enter school, etc.

re: #46 Thanos

Don't forget the Solutrean troofers, there's a few of them about as well.

Soultrain troofers?

re: #113 Pvt Bin Jammin
Huh, I just assumed (I know, I know!) that the Stealth wasn't visible from the ground!

The evil, chaos loving part of my mind, the side that likes throwing monkey wrenches into moving engines, that likes poking the bear with the broom handle through the bars at the zoo, the one that likes to startle the cat so that it jumps 3 feet into the air... that part of my mind would like to see this happen just to experience the sweet anarchy that would ensue.

The grown up, sober part of my of my mind shivers in fear at the thought.

Produce the damned birth certificate and shut these kooks up will ya' O?!

re: #118 BGOH

The same people who didn't want Mitt (or Rudy) are the same folks who will be pushing bobby. Wait and see.

Well y'all it's been an interesting day, to say the least!
But I have to get some sleep NOW!
I hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

Good night, all.

re: #99 arcatan

You see, my bottom line is that I know Obama is way full of sh*t and that troofers tend to be misguided. If you subtract misguided from way full of sh*t you get willful deception. The point is that I see the troofers as the lesser of two evils so they get my vote here.

The lessor of two evils? Excuse me, but, both seem to extremely full of sh*t.

I see little difference from someone who believes that Obama is so full of it that he would do something as obvious as run for President without the basic qualification - and someone who hates Bush so much that they believe he would orchestrate the murder of 3000 people, destroy 2 iconic buildings, and rip over a trillion from the economy to gain what - a war and "more power"?

The fact that so many troofers also buy into the nirth certifikat kerfuffle tells me all that I need to know about both groups - firmly entrenched in the lunatic fringe of the twilight zone.

re: #110 BGOH

I hate to make this a Bobby Jindal discussion - and the crux of the conversation is not exclusive to him - but I would vote for him for president of the universe after watching his post-hurricane press conference last year, even if he believed that turning around three times fast, dancing a jig, and farting twice would result in pigs flying out of his butt.

A opinion that ID/Creationism is based on science sets up a world view that I have a hard time supporting. It extends to so many other areas that he will have to decide upon that it really matters to me. TBH I had the same issues with Bush and Palin, both of whom got my vote in the end. The Democrats always find a way to put someone worse on the ticket (and to be fair, Palin's beliefs haven't impacted her policy record on those issues, unlink Jindle).

re: #120 realwest

Hey, thanks a lot Cattt!

No prob.:D

re: #127 Sharmuta

The same people who didn't want Mitt (or Rudy) are the same folks who will be pushing bobby. Wait and see.

Alright Shar, Bobby was just an example based upon my previous observations here at LGF. If we're not getting anywhere in this discussion now, we're never going to with him as even a tangential subject. Forget it.

re: #114 Dainn

It was so cool! I'm such a nerd on that kind of thing that I rushed outside. Glad I got to see it. LOL I'm convinced it was because of Pearl Harbor day...maybe those guys were doing early practice for the Rose Parade,...but they just wanted to tell us it was Pearl Harbor day!

Internet drives Barack Obama birth-certificate battle

Five weeks after the State of Hawaii vouched for the authenticity of President-elect Barack Obama's birth certificate, the controversy over allegations that Obama is not eligible to take office next month has reached the Supreme Court, which is expected to announce Monday whether it will consider the matter.

/well, we'll find out today but, damn, what if they really do take it up?

Speaking of Louisiana - Dollar Bill Jefferson was defeated by Joe Cao - Vietnamese American Republican. :D

I'm pretty sure - correct me if I'm wrong - he is the first Vietnamese American in congress.

re: #126 Mr. E. Train

The evil, chaos loving part of my mind, the side that likes throwing monkey wrenches into moving engines, that likes poking the bear with the broom handle through the bars at the zoo, the one that likes to startle the cat so that it jumps 3 feet into the air... that part of my mind would like to see this happen just to experience the sweet anarchy that would ensue.

The grown up, sober part of my of my mind shivers in fear at the thought.

Produce the damned birth certificate and shut these kooks up will ya' O?!

I am insulted. Just because I ask for proof of citizenship (a requirement of the US Constitution) why would you consider me a "kook"? As I mentioned before, I am a Political Scientist, decidedly conservative, and my friends and acquaintances consider me the most rational person they know. What the heck is wrong with demanding proof of what the Constitution REQUIRES?

re: #51 Cattt

There was a truther at my polling place on election day. I teased him, and he got annoyed with me. There was also one Obama person.

It was raining cats and dogs, so the usual crowd harassing you on the way in was missing.

Which in and of it self, proves that troofers, don't have the sense to come in out of the rain...

re: #82 Athos

It's one thing to take on the left with reason, facts, and a cogent argument - it's another to use the same bankrupt and failed tactics of the left.

Does anyone honestly think that this campaign would have started at all if it could be invalidated just because of a nirth certifikat? Have we totally lost our ability to apply reason and instead just react like the ideologues we fight?

Doing so costs more than just a lost argument. The lost credibility is not so easy to recover.

Deranged tactics of the left? Or just recycled Clinton Derangement Syndrome crap? Clinton Derangement Syndrome was a real problem before Bush Derangement Syndrome...and I'm most certainly not a fan of Bill or Hillary Clinton, but for years those folks were out there making their nutty movies about all the people Bill and Hill "murdered" or whatever. And those folks make it much, much more difficult for legit criticisms to gain traction.

re: #133 Pvt Bin Jammin

I did find this with some pix: Stealth Bomber Over Los Angeles (Pasadena), dated Sunday

re: #135 Cattt
AH, Cattt - I screwed up moving the flag and it's now on the screen,below the taskbar and the controls don't work on it -don't even come on!

re: #132 BGOH

I don't think it matters at this point. What can any of us do? Sarah had given me hope that one person with integrity could make a difference, but that hope is failing in me now.

re: #134 Killian Bundy

Internet drives Barack Obama birth-certificate battle

/well, we'll find out today but, damn, what if they really do take it up?

Then we can only assume they find some basis for such a case to proceed.

As my sainted Swedish grandmother used to say, "Ya yoost never know."

Obama's smoking issue

Barack Obama faced tough questions from Tom Brokaw on his smoking addiction.

Wait till he takes the oath of office, and parks his bum in the oval office. He'll be chain smoking like a trooper!

re: #140 realwest

AH, Cattt - I screwed up moving the flag and it's now on the screen,below the taskbar and the controls don't work on it -don't even come on!

Close your side bar, then use the link in your tray (lower right area of task bar) to open it again. You should be able to start over from there.

re: #135 Cattt
Nevermind, I fixed it.
Now I really AM going to bed.
Good night, all

re: #134 Killian Bundy

Internet drives Barack Obama birth-certificate battle
/well, we'll find out today but, damn, what if they really do take it up?

Trial by fire?

re: #144 Cattt

Close your side bar, then use the link in your tray (lower right area of task bar) to open it again. You should be able to start over from there.

Actually - I think if you dragged it all the way off the page, it closed. You can right click on your side bar, select "Add Gadgets," then click on the flag gadget and start over.

re: #145 realwest

Nevermind, I fixed it.
Now I really AM going to bed.
Good night, all

You are fun. I love helping people - I do it for a living, so I can't help myself. :D

Good night.

Well, over at Pammy's place, guess what's the top article tonight?

Yep. Nirth certifikit update.

And further down the page there's a picture of her with her arms draped around Robert Spencer and some other old guy. Spencer looks distinctly uncomfortable, and if you examine Pammy's face, you can see why. She looks like she just downed half a bottle of "artisanal" vodka.

In her own words:

The Counter Jihad fighters descended upon NYC and DC this weekend to fight for truth, justice and the way of free men :)

The timing was gorgeous because we converged on a delicious little party at a chic Gotham apartment uptown (more on that at a later date) ... and afterwards, we hit the bar...

Mostly these days she just snips and pastes from other nutjobs' rants. I can understand that; it cuts down on the typos.

Hic.

re: #143 Dustyvet

Obama's smoking issue

Barack Obama faced tough questions from Tom Brokaw on his smoking addiction.

Wait till he takes the oath of office, and parks his bum in the oval office. He'll be chain smoking like a trooper!

Wondering if the Commander in Chief can use the PX system for his ciggies?

Well, they're doing exactly what I suggested right here, many months ago. They've filed a Federal lawsuit.

/that it's under consideration by the Supreme Court is a bit of a surprise

re: #136 bmorte

Ok, first, nothin' but love for ya. Really, not trying to start a fight or be a jerk. ;)

Second, politics isn't a science. Its a dark art, like Santeria or Voodoo.

Third, the 'kook' moniker doesn't come in because you believe this might be true. Ive seen (and thus believe) some weird things myself. I admit there is even a slight, slight, sssllliiight chance that this is true. The kook thing kicks in when the quest becomes more important than what the quest sought to reveal... when the idea becomes a fetish. Its one thing to suspect that there is non-human intelligent life out there and that aliens are dropping by for the occasional visit. Its another thing to make a spectacle of yourself over it.

I to would like to see the One produce the damned document and put this all to bed. Why hasn't he? Laziness? Arrogance? Stupidity? More likely one of the above than he's a non-citizen.

But even if the later is true, those pursuing this should take pains to not come across as kooky. The attitude is perhaps more important than the claim in this instance. Also, as a great philosopher once said "a man's got to know his limitations". If/when the Supremes turn this away, folks have to let it go. The reason folks hate 9/11 trufers is because they are energetic ass-hats that continue to tilt at the WTC windmill despite all the evidence that they are wrong.

Free governments exist because of the consensus of the governed. The high court is our most important body in this regard. Once they have decided this thing we have to accept it. If 'certificate trufers' don't accept it, if they keep tilting at this windmill it wont be pretty.

At best they will become yet another insufferable group of yay'hoos yammering on about the "truth" no one wants to hear. At worst they'll help to poison an already toxic political atmosphere.

re: #132 BGOH

Look- I only speak for myself. Here's my problem-

I am a fiscal, small government conservative. This is the foundation upon which my conservatism stands, and it's not negotiable. It was difficult enough for me to support McCain, but I did because he promised fiscal sanity. But to ask me to support a man who undermined my personal conservative principles is going too far.

Pushing religion in public school science classrooms is more than I can tolerate as a small government conservative in that it undermines my religious freedom and that of others. It's also fiscally wasteful in that it will be fought in court and it's the tax payers who will be soaked for it.

In signing just this one bill into law, Governor jindal undermined my conservative principles, and that's just a dead end for me. I can't and won't support him for President.

For nirth certifikat truthers, as for genesis literalists, NO proof to the contrary will be sufficient. Their minds are made up, and those who disagree are either ignorant, dense, or eeevil.

Trooferism is a funny thing if you really look at it:
Theory A: A cabal of Jews coerced the US government into attacking itself to start a war and herald in an age of one world government dominated by minorities, homosexuals, atheists, and Jews

or...
Theory B: A cabal of Jews coerced the united states government into attacking itself to start a war against minorities, homosexuals, atheists, and Muslims by a white fundamentalist conservative theocracy

AHHH makes my head spin!

re: #138 funky chicken

Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a valid comparison - and look at what all those conspiracy theories brought the right - pretty much any complaint of the Clinton's got linked into the vast right wing conspiracy - and therefore immaterial. Another example of the collateral damage caused by providing assinine theories with any respectability and the resulting collapse of credibility when it comes to real issues.

re: #104 realwest

Hi PBJ! Uh, you SAW a Stealth bomber? That's not a good thing for us or the Air Force! LOL!

At least you guys have stealth bombers, I have no idea what our bombers or fighters are going to be under our new masters down under. Anyone good at paper folding?

The birth certificate thing certainly has drawn the crazies out. The problem is that is part of a larger, legitimate question about Obama and the protective, seemingly impenetrable wall surrounding details of his life that all other candidates for POTUS make available to the public. This wall of secrecy, maintained not only by Obama and his wife, but by his watchdogs, Axelrod, Emanuel, etc., promote suspicions about him. Those who thrive on conspiracy theories are attracted to this secrecy like a magnet. The non-facts and the contradictory facts of his 2 books (books by a nobody at the time they were written) make him seem even more suspicious.

Fully legitimate questions about his personal details, his curriculum vitae, should have been vigorously pursued, but the fawning media and his watchdogs have kept the questioners at bay, even delegitimized them. Why are all of his records buried? Why is there no paper trail?

I can't blame the crazies for going whole-hog on this issue. They are swimming in the deep end and nirth certifikit remains just that. Until we find out the real details about Barack Hussein Obama, he remains, as Lawrence Eagleburger called him, a charlatan and a con-man. When he makes that maiden foreign policy speech from a Muslim capital, we will have an inkling about his real background and a view of his true colors.

re: #19 kynna Obama still isn't guaranteed the PRESIDENCY until December 15th when hte Electoral college will pick the president out of the valid candidate from the election. If and its a big if Obama somehow ends up disqualified I'd hope the EC would nominate McCain over Biden.

For the record I greatly dislike/don't believe most every conspiracy theory because the foundation for them usually goes back to their believers general dislike of the government. I'd say all but I go out of my way not to track any of them. On this issue, I neither believe nor disbelieve and each side calling the other side idiots or truthers/anti-truthers accomplishes nothing. I'd simply like it put to bed once and for all so everyone can get back to railing against something else. That Hawaii officials confirm he has a valid Hawaiian birth certificate means nothing in regard to the natural born issue because Hawaii allows people to (basically) redo their birth certificate and therein lies foundation for the argument. Ergo I figure I'm dead in the middle of the two sides cussing each other out over this when I say show the daggone birth certificate to a federal judge (anyone but a 9th Supreme Court judge), let him/her confirm this issue one way or another and move on. Is that so freaking hard?

Do I hope there's anything to this story? Absolutely. Do I think there is? I doubt it. Sadly, the Obamessiah's got his 4 years to destroy America.

Here is the rub. I have no doubt that Obama is an American citizen. He was born on American soil, had one American parent.

What about college? If Obama had dual citizenship which you are allowed to have until age 18, what box did Obama check on college applications? There are two boxes, US Citizen, and International Student. If Obama checked IS, then he could be construed as giving up his American citizenship. Would be nice to see his college records.

In the 1980's I don't think US citizens were able to travel to Pakistan(not exactly sure on that), so how did Obama get into Pakistan? It is just a fact, US citizens cannot travel to Cuba, but they do. The fact by itself is not incriminating enough to decide citizenship.

I agree with others above, the secrecy of the Obama team is fostering the conspiracy theorists out there. Obama has the makings of a cross between Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter.

As an aside, he also has no sense of economics at all. This is not going to be a fun four years economically.

re: #162 pittrader1988 Obama until recently was still using his Indonesian passport if I recall correctly. But Paki was only on hte caution list not the do not fly list.

re: #27 bmorte

Sorry for the disagreement...I think his failure to provide indisputable proof of US citizenship is a problem.

I'm not exactly on the side of those who believe that The One is not a natural born citizen, which is the crux of this whole argument, but I have to admit something is not right in this situation. It would take five minutes for The One to release his original, unaltered birth certificate and shut everyone claiming he's not a natural born citizen up. The fact he has hired three law firms and spent close to a million dollars to SEAL that original certificate away from prying eyes tells me SOMETHING is rotten in Denmark. Maybe he isn't hiding his place of birth, but he's sure as heck hiding SOMETHING!

re: #162 pittrader1988

In the 1980's I don't think US citizens were able to travel to Pakistan(not exactly sure on that), so how did Obama get into Pakistan?

From my understanding, it;s not that Pakistan was on any kind of US no-fly list. It was actually against the law in Pakistan for US citizens to be there. So by The One's own admission (in his own books) he was there, so he must have gotten in 'legally' somehow, and the only way I know to do that would be to claim citizenship of somewhere other then the US.

Also, the fact that the SCOTUS is taking more time to look into this issue, instead of just throwing the case out on Friday as many of The One's worshipers really expected, says something too. Someone on the Court is having questions about this whole mess.

First of all I am not an Obama supporter. I dislike his views on Israel, and I worry that he doesn't understand the true evil he will need to defend against. HOWEVER,

I posted a link here with a high res version, and close ups, and witnesses.

The document is his real birth certificate, and HAS been presented outside of DailyKOS.
AND it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. birth and citizenship.

The head of the Health Department in Hawaii has confirmed that the original certificate is the same as the copy, and therefore Obama was born when and where his American family says he was, Kapiolani Hospital, Honolulu.

It has been verified by the state government official who is responsible for the document and it's authenticity.

The state created the document. That makes it his real Birth Certificate. It refers to where he was born as the county of Honolulu.

Hawaii does not, and has never created Birth Certificates that state the place the person was born as Honolulu, when they were not really born there.

The state of Hawaii holds the original birth certificate. He was born in Hawaii. The State of Hawaii does not hold the original birth certificates of people born in Kenya. The State, or Province in Kenya would hold that. The verified document states clearly where he was born, in the county of Honolulu. (I have verified that there is no County of Honolulu in Kenya.)

Again, Hawaii has never handed out birth certificates, amended, or otherwise that state the person being born in Honolulu when they were not really born there. If they did, then every illegal alien would show up and get one. As this document meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. birth and citizenship.

There is NO REQUIREMENT other than presenting this document to confirm the citizen requirements of qualifying for POTUS.

This document is official, and has been verified, and has been presented.

The Hawaiian official only confirmed the documents, but not the location of birth because she can't attest to him being born in the hospital that the documents from 1961 say he was. She was not a witness to that event in 1961.

However, she can verify that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate. And that it matches the copy that the State, and her department have provided the world. That very official and legal copy says he was born in Honolulu.

Here's the proof that there's no discrepancy between the "Certification of Live Birth" (the modern printout from the State of Hawaii's records of births, deaths, and adoptions), and the original Birth Certificate.

Dr. Chiyome Fukino (Director of Hawaii's Department of Health) has verified the legitimacy of Obama's Birth Certificate. So what exactly does "verification" mean in a legal sense?

Per Hawaii Revised Statute &sect338-14.3, "...the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.
(b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

Further, &sect338-18 - Disclosure of records defines the valid list of parties who can request the desired information:

Note &sect338-18 (g)(1):

(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;

Since every voter is a person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record, it seems we've been given legal verification of the matters of fact, by the Director of the Department of Health for the State of Hawaii, within what Hawaii State Law allows.

It's a dead horse folks, we really need to stop whipping it.

Somebody put this to bed, please, one way or the other. If it takes the court, so be it.

Worst possible scenario is that this drags on for the next four years.

Is that the Bob Schultz form the Adirondack Mt's of NY?
Yeah,he a lil kooky.

The issue is not so much the birth certificate as the fact that Barack's father was not an American, but a British subject at the time of his birth, a no-no for one claiming to be a natural birth citizen. Both parents need to be citizens. That's enough to queer the deal.

The supreme court needs to hear this case only so it can be laid to rest. I've had to listen to foolish 9-11 conspiracies for the last 8 years, I don't want to listen to this for the next 4.

I realize this isn't going to change a darn thing, even if he is not the American people suppose him to be. It's his attitude and nonchalance about the whole affair that bugs me. Just think of how many forms of ID that you need to provide for jobs or just to sign your kids up for little league.

If it wasn't a big deal, why not show it? It doesn't matter since he is soon to be the president-elect and nothing going to change that except the question mark of being a legitamate office holder.

I'd love to listen in on one of the conference calls.

"...Steel doesn't melt!... Legalize it!... Bilderbergs !, Aaarghhh..."

re: #174 lincolntf

I'd love to listen in on one of the conference calls.

"...Steel doesn't melt!... Legalize it!... Bilderbergs !, Aaarghhh..."

That whole "steel doesn't melt" thing was one of the funniest, most idiotic things I'd ever read in the press when it it.

It's over, Johnny.

re: #171 captain joe

No, they're not buying that.

Supreme Court won't review Obama's eligibility to serve

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth.

The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election. Donofrio says that since Obama had dual nationality at birth — his mother was American and his Kenyan father at the time was a British subject — he cannot possibly be a "natural born citizen," one of the requirements the Constitution lists for eligibility to be president.

And truther Phil Berg won't fare any better before the Supreme Court.

I say we support NICOLE KIDMAN for president - unlike BO was
actually born in Hawaii! Beside is better looking...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Kidman was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. Her father, Dr Antony David Kidman, is a biochemist, clinical psychologist and author, with an office in Lane Cove, Sydney, Australia.[4][5][6] Her mother, Janelle Ann (née Glenny), is a nursing instructor who edits her husband's books and was a member of the Women's Electoral Lobby. At the time of Kidman's birth, her father was a visiting fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health of the United States. The family returned to Australia when Kidman was four and her parents now live on Sydney's North Shore. Kidman has a younger sister, Antonia Kidman, a journalist.

re: #177 justadot

No, they're not buying that.

Supreme Court won't review Obama's eligibility to serve

SELECTED, NOT ELECTED!

/s

Did Franken win in MN?

re: #175 Yashmak

That whole "steel doesn't melt" thing was one of the funniest, most idiotic things I'd ever read in the press when it it.

You mean it just pops up that way? You are NOT suggesting that steel is liquid before it is steel. . .are you?

/// and snicker snort gaffaw. . .

I'm sorry.. but I'm with Mr. E. Train (#152) and Ashan (#158) here.

If John Forbes Kerry could be part of the unmitigated fiasco that was the Winter Soldier hearings and still run for President, I have no doubt that the people who thought that was a good idea could have run an illegal alien as a candidate. The arrogance required to believe that no one would question this would be roughly the same all around. The "seared" bit alone should have gotten him a free mental examination, courtesy of Uncle Sam..a sitting Senator telling wild and easily disproved outrageous lies about his military service just can't be good for the country or anyone.

The 9/11 Troofers are clearly in contradiction to known facts, such as thousands of people who watched a plane hit the Pentagon and saw airplane parts scattered around the area. The possibility that Obama isn't a citizen, even if only by some technical end-run, is not in contradiction to known facts. In fact, revealing the nirth certifikit to some more reliable source than the Daily Kos would be far cheaper than lawyering up.. unless something's wrong.

The problem isn't even the nirth certifikit- Obama's whole past is shady and bizarre. His school records are all sealed or "disappeared" somehow, his autobiographies contradict each other on numerous minor claims, and interviews with family members from back when he was a nobody were hardly more enlightening. Entire years are just kind of missing from his account of who he is and where he's from. Nobody with this level of unknowns would be hired to head up General Motors, even these days. Managing the New York Yankees wouldn't be completely out, but you'd still have to signal "stay" or "steal", not just "present".

Seriously, who is this guy?

At this point, the issue is dead. The Supreme Court declined to allow it.

However, would someone please tell me why Obama's people spent so much effort to quash this?

My world-view is absolutely the opposite of the conspiratorialists. I simply would like to know what there is in that document that needed to be hidden. It's just a matter of curiousity now.

re: #178 Iron Fist

Do we really want to go down the Road of State Court systems picking our Federal representatives? That is a whole host of corruption is getting ready to happen. Containment and MAD only work when the target is thinking rationally, and can look ahead to the cost of non-compliance.
blockquote>

Is it too much to ask, though, that the state officials verify all the necessary information, unimpeachably, before people who don't qualify are placed on a ballot? From my understanding, there was an illegal alien listed as the socialist candidate for President in 4 states, including NY and NJ. It's not a matter that a candidate like that would never win, but that a candidate like that who was not even a legal resident of the US no less a 'natural born citizen' was even on the ballot! Somebody needs to be doing their job, because the officials and the laws in place just ain't!

When this could be solved by simply presenting the required document, one wonders why he just hasn't pulled it, out said: "See!" ,and have done with it. Instead of all the legal wrangling going on.
All of us have had to present our birth certificates to virtual bureaucratic nobodies on request, and he's too shy to present his to the American public,when running for a public office and taking on powers that frankly scare the bejesus out of most.

LGF is practising simple ad hominem attacks by suggesting anyone who is interested in this is equivalent to a Troofer or worse (if such exists).

It is more than passing strange that Obama does not release the documents -- indeed, that he is spending money to resist doing just that.

I am no kook; I am a pretty normal neocon, with a cum laude Ivy League degree. And this story won't die because people like me do not see evidence that LGF (and others) have thought through the issues. Dismissive ad hominem attacks do not an argument make.

In addition to the upding/downding buttons, it would be nice if there was a '?' button for comments that make absolutely no discernible sense.

Truthers are going to have a tough time spinning this: Sheik whatshisface at Gitmo has decided to plead guilty--and 5 of his cohorts, too. He wants the death penalty--what a shame.

re: #187 iWatas

LGF is practising simple ad hominem attacks by suggesting anyone who is interested in this is equivalent to a Troofer or worse (if such exists).

It is more than passing strange that Obama does not release the documents -- indeed, that he is spending money to resist doing just that.

I am no kook; I am a pretty normal neocon, with a cum laude Ivy League degree. And this story won't die because people like me do not see evidence that LGF (and others) have thought through the issues. Dismissive ad hominem attacks do not an argument make.

Ivy League honors degree? Well, you guys have always been the easiest to fool.

re: #187 iWatas

However, I agree about the birth certificate. Something fishy.

re: #173 badger1970

It's his attitude and nonchalance about the whole affair that bugs me...

If it wasn't a big deal, why not show it?

He has presented it. He has done everything required and more.

The Nirth Certifikit people can't seem to admit that. No matter what they see or hear. It is the conspiracy mental disease. We have seen it going before as the JFK assassination, the 2000 election, and 9/11.

However just because they do it, doesn't mean you have to. Be critical, just don't be crazy.

I'm guessing that the bc shows his religion to be Moslem. Hence the cover up. I agree with the general sentiment of this thread, but I would love to see the Supremes order Mr. Uplifted Chin to turn it over.

re: #187 iWatas

"It is more than passing strange that Obama does not release the documents -- indeed, that he is spending money to resist doing just that."

Precisely. Of course the fact that Obama's camp resisted this is no indication that there is anything to the allegation. However, there is a strong inclination to infer that something is not kosher there, just from the effort expended.

No, it means nothing that he's fighting these cases, except that he's playing it smart. He's letting his enemies discredit themselves with this insanity.

And they're doing an absolutely smashing job of it.

re: #187 iWatas

LGF is practising simple ad hominem attacks by suggesting anyone who is interested in this is equivalent to a Troofer or worse (if such exists)...
I am no kook; I am a pretty normal neocon, with a cum laude Ivy League degree. And this story won't die because people like me do not see evidence that LGF (and others) have thought through the issues. Dismissive ad hominem attacks do not an argument make.

I think we have thought this through. I posted a long track explaining every detail I could think if. Read it, and the post right after. Combined they give you the proof.

I understand that you SAY that you want to see the evidence, but it feels to me that even when it is presented to you, you refuse to look.

When the detailed proof is presented, and you pretend it never happened, then Dismissive ad hominem attacks is all we got left.

The Dc troofers have a newspaper called Rock Creek News. I wonder where they get the money to print it and have newspaper boxes(not a lot of them but I've seen several). Their latest edition(which I didn't take out of the box) has the birth certificate crap. To those of you attempting to explain the facts or give weblinks to the people here who believe this nonsense- don't bother. It is like the troofers who would quote 1 or 2 scientists- about their "facts"- of course, these scientists were not in the fields being spoken of- and the troofers think that any other scientist or engineer who disputes their "Facts" are paid government agents. I know because I made the mistake of responding to them with quotes and weblinks to reputable university- not gov't- researchers. If you want to believe in the troofer fairy, you will. No amount of fact can get past these lunkheads. I am especially suspicious of two posters who speak of their degrees as proof of their intellect - I guess those degrees- if they exist -are the last time you read anything that wasn't printed at Staples.

I wonder whether the MORon Paulians are connected to the fascist lyndon larouche cult?

re: #192 Buck

He has presented it. He has done everything required and more.

The Nirth Certifikit people can't seem to admit that.

The problem so many are having, and I admit I have my own questions, is the certificate The One has 'presented' as genuine can have legally altered information on it, thanks to the laws in Hawai'i. That is why so many people want to see the unalterable original vault copy of the certificate. That and the fact that all the government officials who have 'seen' the certificate in question, the same one posted by Kos and such, only say it is "valid." An altered certificate would still be "valid." No one has stated, in clear, precise American English, "The certificate states Mr. Obama was born in the State off Hawai'i." That is the thing a lot of the BC people are sticking on.

Personally, I'm of the opinion what does he have to hide? If not something on the Birth Certificate, than what would the certificate point to? Doctored medical records or school transcripts? False info on financial aide forms?

A couple of weeks ago I was like many on this thread, willing to let this matter drop as settled. But in the time since, with all the hemming and hawing and obfuscation by the Obama camp, I've begun to wonder WHAT is wrong with this picture?

Please see comment #195.

re: #171 captain joe

The issue is not so much the birth certificate as the fact that Barack's father was not an American, but a British subject at the time of his birth, a no-no for one claiming to be a natural birth citizen. Both parents need to be citizens. That's enough to queer the deal.

The Constitution doers not require that both parents be American citizens. It provides no definition of "natural born", so the definition has been understood to mean a US citizen by birth rather than by naturalization. The Fourteenth Amendment specifically says that all persons born in the United States are citizens. Legislation further expands on who is a citizen by birth by permitting persons born to a least one American citizen to take that parent's citizenship under certain circumstances. According to the State of Hawaii, Barack Hussein Obama II was born in that state., making him a US citizen by birth, which means he is a "natural born citizen".

As for the birth certificate issue in general:

Do amended short form Hawaiian birth certificates list a foreign birth as taking place in Honolulu? Does the vault copy do the same? If the answer to the first is no, then there is no story here, because he was born in Hawaii. If the answer to the last is yes, then there is no story because there is now no practical way to prove Obama was not born in the United States.

As for not releasing the vault copy, why should he bother? He's already presented sufficient proof of citizenship and if he did present the vault copy, the birth certificate troofers will move the goal posts again. There's no point pandering to them.

re: #193 Blue Eyed Music Lover

I'm guessing that the bc shows his religion to be Moslem. Hence the cover up. I agree with the general sentiment of this thread, but I would love to see the Supremes order Mr. Uplifted Chin to turn it over.

From a posting on another site by someone who has a Hawai'ian birth certificate of their own, the certificate does NOT list religion.

re: #199 subguyss

The problem so many are having, and I admit I have my own questions, is the certificate The One has 'presented' as genuine can have legally altered information on it, thanks to the laws in Hawai'i.

No, it cannot say that he was born in Honolulu, when he was in fact not.

Your "legally altered information" argument is equal to the melting point of steel argument in troofers. A truth, wrapped in a lie, and hidden underneath an obscure but irrelevant fact.

If it were possible to get the Great State of Hawaii to alter a persons place of birth to be Honolulu, when it was not Honolulu, then there would be 8 million undocumented (illegal) aliens lined up at the counter right now. All they need to stay in the USA is a birth certificate or even a (Certificate of Live Birth) that states they were born in the USA, and poof they are American Citizens.

re: #203 Buck

No, it cannot say that he was born in Honolulu, when he was in fact not.

Just repeating what I've heard from people who live in Hawai'i. That it is possible, due to a loophole in the way the law is written to cover adoptions and similar family issues, for a person born outside the US to be listed as having been born in Hawai'i. If I had the actual wording of the law handy I would post it. Perhaps later when I'm on my own personal PC.

re: #187 iWatas

I am no kook; I am a pretty normal neocon, with a cum laude Ivy League degree. And this story won't die because people like me do not see evidence that LGF (and others) have thought through the issues. Dismissive ad hominem attacks do not an argument make.

And beating a dead horse does not a live horse make.

He presented it. What other evidence remains to be discussed? As Buck noted, it has all been laid out. And guess what? As much as I'd like it to be otherwise. . .THERE'S NO STORY. Ivy League degree eh? When did they stopped teaching students not to ignore evidence when it's presented?

re: #204 subguyss

Just repeating what I've heard from people who live in Hawai'i. That it is possible, due to a loophole in the way the law is written to cover adoptions and similar family issues, for a person born outside the US to be listed as having been born in Hawai'i. If I had the actual wording of the law handy I would post it. Perhaps later when I'm on my own personal PC.

Well, when you get a chance, please post the wording, but also post a link to a .GOV website. Everyone has heard from people who heard from people... the whole thing is an echo chamber. You might want to confirm what those people say at [Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

I heard from people that who used to have a friend that once visited Hawaii, and they say it isn't true.

This Paulian rejects both 9/11 & Obama birth certificate truthers...

Before anyone attacks, I voted for McCain, as I thought Sarah Palin was the best thing the Republican party had done, in a long time. I voted Libertarian & C.P. in some locals, but I still hold some high hopes for Palin.

re: #206 Buck

I did what you suggested. According to Hawaiian law:

[Link: www.capitol.hawaii.gov...]

"The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents"

So the short form copy would not have listed his place of birth as Honolulu.

re: #123 bmorte

Give me a break! No! He should provide a REAL birth certificate. The same thing that all US Citizens must provide to get a passport or enter school, etc.

Ah, but there's the problem. Provide a real birth certificate to whom? It has already been provided to FactCheck.org ([Link: www.factcheck.org...] but that doesn't seem to be enough for you.

Who would you trust to verify the certificate?

re: #209 pseudoFred

Who would you trust to verify the certificate?

He'd probably trust Ronald Reagan to verify it.

there are bigger issues with him becoming a president, starting with him being elected into senate and even before that, fraud, etc.. then his birth certificate.