There's plenty of real reasons to be wary of Obama.

Brilliant. Hey troofers, get out of your parent's basement and move on with your lives!

re: #1 noshariaincanada

There's plenty of real reasons to be wary of Obama.

Yep, yep, yep!

re: #1 noshariaincanada

There's plenty of real reasons to be wary of Obama.

I'm wary of his blue lips. Always looks like he's eating a blueberry water ice.

I would rather people of all beliefs would laser focus on WTF congress is doing with our money vis-a-vis all these bailouts.

It is not conservatism; it is sore loserism and quite radical in its intent. Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation. Conservatives need to accept the fact that we lost the election, and get over it; and get on with the important business of reviving our country’s economy and defending its citizens, and — by the way — its Constitution.

Ding Ding Ding!

We are not part of the lunatic fringe and we have to shun the ideas and arguments of the lunatic fringe.

Well Said.

Are we seeing the re-emergence of a Bircher-type, nut-case conservativism?

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

Horowitz is absolutely right in saying that this kind of open-ended yammering second-guessing is destructive of the entire social fabric of this country. It is shameful to sink to the level of the "selected, not elected" crowd.

Exactly. He won the election, and no matter what they want to believe, he will be POTUS. Conjuring up conspiracy theories and UFO sightings is not going to change that.

Well said, Mr. Horowitz.

re: #9 Noam Sayin'

Are we seeing the re-emergence of a Bircher-type, nut-case conservativism?

I don't think it's ever gone away.

Hmm.

I agree with the spirit of the article -- let it go, certificators -- but not necessarily with the letter of it. He asks,

What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on U.S. soil?

That calls for some examination. Is he saying that the claims of non-American soil are illegitimate? I don't think so. He seems to be saying, rather, that the claims may or may not be legitimate, but regardless, the citizenship clause in the Constitution is moot.

That's a different, larger argument altogether.

Unfortunately I don't think these people will go away. It's the same group that propagated every conspiracy theory during the Clinton years (when there was plenty of real dirt to harp about). As I said on the previous thread, expecting that irrational people will listen to rational arguments is itself irrational.

The best we can do is ignore these people and not give them a forum. All these "I believe he was born in Hawaii but ..." posts need to go away. It's just a stealth way of making the issue seem legitimate.

Peshawar slipping into chaos

Not good.

Nirthers
Nirthlings
Nirtherism

Born of the Conspiracy Theory Strange Attractor.

If he's the child of an American citizen, that's enough, I think. However, we all know what the Democrats and the media would be doing if he were Republican.

Actually I like Obama Derangement Syndrome. It equates it with its true counterpart on the left.

re: #6 Russkilitlover

I would rather people of all beliefs would laser focus on WTF congress is doing with our money vis-a-vis all these bailouts.

I sure wish that Republicans, Bush included, would refuse to participate in this bailout insanity. When they participate in it, they make it difficult to argue that Republicans would rather have a free market solution.

re: #18 Lee Coller

Actually I like Obama Derangement Syndrome. It equates it with its true counterpart on the left.

Sinking to their level is the wrong way to fight them.

I like the word "derangement."
re: #18 Lee Coller

Actually I like Obama Derangement Syndrome.

I got my rear end dinged down in the dead thread spinoffs for linking to this very article. There are some serious troofers here (or their sockpuppets) just dinging comments and links.

re: #15 Kenneth

better link?

re: #22 Honorary Yooper

I got my rear end dinged down in the dead thread spinoffs for linking to this very article. There are some serious troofers here (or their sockpuppets) just dinging comments and links.

I'm sure.

This denunciation is not going to play well in the idle minds of those who think conservatives are all a bunch of wingnuts. Speaking of idle minds, what if anything does kos have to say about these nirth cirtifikit truthers? I guess I'll have to venture over the the dark side and scratch around a little bit. bbl

re: #21 LilyGecko

I like the word "derangement."

I meant I like the term for this derangement. Not that I like the activity.

Bases loaded home run.

Too obvious. We have some real things to be concerned about, as others have pointed out. And we will be facing those things, soon enough. Let's get ready (let's start the list: terrorism, recession...just to name two biggies).

re: #23 legalpad

OK, not a better link. Then -

Peshawar slipping into chaos

PESHAWAR: Four years ago, journalists used to go to Waziristan for the story. Today, the story itself reached Peshawar. In October 2003, a team of journalists reached Baghar in South Waziristan, to file follow-up stories of the maiden airstrike on a suspected Al Qaeda or Taliban hideout. A local journalist planned an early morning departure for the site of the strike without official permission. Four years on, a look at the damage caused by Friday evening’s car bomb blast near the historic Qisakhawani bazaar and an attack on parked trucks carrying NATO supplies testifies the danger has arrived as close as possible. The government itself is a hostage. An Iraq-like green zone was established in Peshawar with checkposts on the roads leading to important offices and residences. High profile kidnapping and murders have added to the fears of Peshawar residents. Security analysts forecast that Peshawar might face an even worse scenario if over 500 hardened militants camping in Khyber Agency storm the provincial capital and the army is called upon to reclaim the city. The ever increasing pressure on Peshawar from militants will make things more difficult for the ANP government which is facing an ‘internal debate’ on whether to abandon governance or to take the fight to its logical end.The symptoms of a Beirut-like situation are emerging. Living in Peshawar is like dancing to the tune of death. iqbal khattak

re: #20 Fat Jolly Penguin

Sinking to their level is the wrong way to fight them.

No, no, it makes BDS people as nutty as the Nirth Cerifikit people. Not sinking to their level so much as comparing the two groups.

I have a lot of respect for Horowitz, but if Obama was born on foreign soil - which he wasn't - then it's not a "technicality." The Constitution has to mean what it says, or it says nothing. To me, that's no different than liberals arguing for a "living Constitution."

We are the loyal opposition and must behave accordingly.

re: #19 Syrah

I sure wish that Republicans, Bush included, would refuse to participate in this bailout insanity. When they participate in it, they make it difficult to argue that Republicans would rather have a free market solution.

We may have congresspeople with and (R) after their name, but we shore don't have many Republicans! And the only conservatives around are of the social persuasion and they just tick everyone off!

Oh noes! I'm an anti-contipitutionist.

re: #22 Honorary Yooper

I got my rear end dinged down in the dead thread spinoffs for linking to this very article. There are some serious troofers here (or their sockpuppets) just dinging comments and links.

Ha -- embrace the down-ding, Yoop.

I've got a little fanclub that makes a hobby of going through the archives to ding my posts, regardless of the subject. My 'karma' drops by scores of points, even when I'm offline.

You can only chuckle.

While the "Obama isn't an American!" thing is pretty much complete nonsense, the Constitutional question behind it should not be so lightly dismissed. The Constitution requires the President to be a natural-born American citizen, not a naturalized immigrant. The actual text (Article II, Section 1, clause 5), says "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

I wouldn't be quite so casual about this requirement as some of the commenters here would seem to be. Remember, if you decide that this clause is no longer relevant and should be ignored/superceded, your standing when arguing against someone else carving out another chunk of the Constitution is much weaker.

re: #30 Honorary Yooper

No, no, it makes BDS people as nutty as the Nirth Cerifikit people. Not sinking to their level so much as comparing the two groups.

I figured that out when #26 was posted. :)

this is no different the BDS just coming from the right ODS frankly i perfer to keep it to real issues and some of us on the right really do believe that the office should get respect. but that doesn't mean we have to support bad policy from 1700 penn. ave.

A quick google search of "Obama birth certificate" brings up 1,440,000 hits.

"Obama Marxist" brings up 1,280,000

"Obama birth certificate"

"Obama marxist"

re: #9 Noam Sayin'

Are we seeing the re-emergence of a Bircher-type, nut-case conservativism?

The John Birch society was not nut-case conservatism. Parts of it evolved to that, but the Society itself is not.

Horowitz is spot on.

Instead of tilting at birth certificate windmills, they ought to shift their attention to preventing the birth of a wave New Deal II legislation that will have a far greater impact on our country than theories about the Obama nativity.

re: #23 legalpad

That's funny... try this, then click through to the story

Conservatives need to accept the fact that we lost the election, and get over it; and get on with the important business of reviving our country’s economy and defending its citizens, and — by the way — its Constitution.

Damned decent of him to paint all Conservatives with the same damn paintbrush of conspiracy lunatics. Asshole.

re: #36 Lanzman

Exactly. Agreement in post 13.

re: #39 LilyGecko

Oops. First link doesn't work.

David Horowitz hits this one out of the park, in a piece subtitled “Shut up about the birth certificate:”

Actually, I don't think he hits it out of the park at all. Why? Because he tacitly entertains the notion that Obama may not actually be Constitutionally eligible to be president. What Horowitz seems to be saying is, even if Obama is not a natural-born citizen, then we should just let him be president anyway, because we'd be taking away the votes of 64 million Americans.

I think that's a bad tack to take. The whole point behind the anti-birth-truth position is that Obama so obviously was born in Hawaii to an American citizen mother that all the wishful thinking in the world won't make it go away. Horowitz is opening to the door to the factual correctness that Obama is ineligible. Not a good plan.

Yes, I agreee that it is sore-loserism -- just as is the anti-Proposition 8 frenzy that is happening in California. Except, here, there is a very good chance they may overturn the will of the people. The anti-Obama movement won't succeed, however.

re: #43 Kenneth

That's funny... try this, then click through to the story

Right - it's how I got #29 -

The Alex Jones Syndrome: EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.

Flouride = K-agent
9/11= False flag, building 7 controlled implosion, steel doesn't weaken or melt with fire
GMO Food = biological warfare, we all die of cancer
NWO = Bilderbergers, Illuminati, Global Bankers, etc.
FEMA = concentration camps
Rail System = handcuffs on floor of rail cars that lead to FEMA camps
Anti-Drug Laws = NWO war on American people, Bilderbergers profit
Hurricanes = H.A.R.P. system controlling the weather
Child Protective Services = Illuminati pedophiles of the NWO
Nitherism = he'll get there

=== BUY CRAPPY TROOFER TAPES/CDS/RAVING LUNATIC INTERNET RADIO FEED. SUCKAS!
....

A coworker just linked me this. . .

we were hosed AND shafted

re: #39 LilyGecko

A quick google search of "Obama birth certificate" brings up 1,440,000 hits.

"Obama Marxist" brings up 1,280,000

"Obama birth certificate"

"Obama marxist"

99% of them are penned by Atlas Shrugs. Heh.

It is not conservatism; it is sore loserism and quite radical in its intent. Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation.

I fear with the SCOTUS having tossed out the BC case that it's only cemented the demented. We've had 8 years of moonbats whining about Florida and the SCOTUS, and now I'm preparing for 4 years of the same but from the right fringe. Sad and pathetic- like spoiled brats not getting their way.

Mr Horowitz was quite astute in pinpointing the issue- respect for election results. If America can't do that, how are we any better than a wayward African country after an election?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing in the Constitution is a "technicality" that should be ignored. If that lying, corrupt jerk 0bama had been born in Kenya, and we found it out post election, the results would HAVE to be thrown out. Period.

Like always, these troofers aren't looking at the bigger picture. Our Congress is failing us.

We've just weathered eight years of liberal idiots suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome, accepting every ridiculous lie about Bush as the gospel truth. We've also survived nine weeks of Palin Derangement Syndrome, in which liberals clung to theories about Sarah Palin's personal life long after they'd been proven untrue.

We saw how all of this hurt the conduct of the war on terrorism, hindered the governance of the country, and distorted the presidential election.

Do we, the reasonable and responsible end of the political spectrum, really want to engage in the same silly behavior?

I don't want Barry as our President, but he was elected fair and square and we have to live with that. The Hawaiian "Certificate of Live Birth" is genuine. Game over.

re: #55 harrylook

If that lying, corrupt jerk 0bama had been born in Kenya, and we found it out post election, the results would HAVE to be thrown out.

Kenya Certificate

re: #20 Fat Jolly Penguin

Sinking to their level is the wrong way to fight them.

You're right. It won't work.
The deranged will waste all their time spinning their wheels (9/11 Truthers, now the birth certificate nuts -- okay, also Bush the unelected, too --), and get us nowhere. We'll have real problems to face and figure out. And who knows, maybe Obama will do some good things, as well. Let's give him a chance to succeed or fail, before we criticize.

Geez...

I went to all of the trouble yesterday of PROVING that Obama is ineligible by age by PROVING that he was a member of the Chinese Women's Gymnastics team, and everyone is still stuck on the Birth Certificate!

It is a False Flag Operation!

Ask yourself - who benefits?

We need to get the word out - maybe we can rent a blimp! That will work!

re: #31 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I have a lot of respect for Horowitz, but if Obama was born on foreign soil - which he wasn't - then it's not a "technicality." The Constitution has to mean what it says, or it says nothing. To me, that's no different than liberals arguing for a "living Constitution."

That's been my only issue with this whole thing. I know it's been asked but I never saw an answer: is there a process for validating candidates eligibility? If so and that has been done, then so be it. If not, maybe it's something that should be done in the future. If it ever comes out that Obama is somehow in violation of the Constitution what will that do for future precedent? Although I know with the moonbats everything Bush does is unconstitutional.

The birth-certificate zealots are essentially arguing that 64 million voters should be disenfranchised because of a contested technicality as to whether Obama was born on U.S. soil.
...
What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on U.S. soil?

Horowitz is conceding the opposition's main factual point here -- that there is some doubt as to whether Obama was born in the U.S. Terrible debating blunder.

Ann Dunham was 17 years old when Obama was born. In 1961, 17-year-old American girls did not go galavanting around the globe to third world nations in order to have babies.

Obama must be squarely confronted when he's wrong on policy. That's gonna be tough enough without a bunch of people distracted by wacky Truther-style conspiracy theories.

re: #58 LilyGecko

Kenya Certificate

His kenyian birth certicicate is stored in the same place as Hitler's brith record showing that his grandmother was jewish?

re: #48 zombie

Actually, I don't think he hits it out of the park at all. Why? Because he tacitly entertains the notion that Obama may not actually be Constitutionally eligible to be president. What Horowitz seems to be saying is, even if Obama is not a natural-born citizen, then we should just let him be president anyway, because we'd be taking away the votes of 64 million Americans.

I think that's a bad tack to take. The whole point behind the anti-birth-truth position is that Obama so obviously was born in Hawaii to an American citizen mother that all the wishful thinking in the world won't make it go away. Horowitz is opening to the door to the factual correctness that Obama is ineligible. Not a good plan.

Yes, I agreee that it is sore-loserism -- just as is the anti-Proposition 8 frenzy that is happening in California. Except, here, there is a very good chance they may overturn the will of the people. The anti-Obama movement won't succeed, however.

You are right. That is the implied message of his column. The disenfranchisement of 64 million voters trumps any and all constitutional aspects is what he is saying. Personally, I don't find it a "contested technicality" if it was in fact true; if that was the case than anything in our constitution could be found to be a "contested technicality" at convenience.
And he really needs to understand John McCain was born on a military installation OCONUS (out of the continental US) by a parents serving on military duty. One hell of a difference there.

The package goods store around the corner from Pam Atlas's place in New York is reporting that it's just sold out of vodka. The news from the Supreme Court has apparently driven her to hoard liquor and lingerie in preparation for the coming Obamalypse.

I can't quite agree with Horowitz on this one.

If Obama were not a U.S. citizen, and therefore was not eligible for the presidency, and if he knew this but intentionally lied to or misled the public regarding his eligibility, or if he in any way covered up his ineligibility, then he should be disqualified. No matter how many millions of voters would be thus disenfranchised. No matter how many people started rioting in the streets.

The real reason this issue should be dropped is because there's simply no valid issue to be pursued. If someone could convince me otherwise, I'd change my mind, and I'd argue that Obama should be stripped of his office, even if he has already moved into the White House. So far, that hasn't happened.

re: #48 zombie

You may like Rick Moran's piece at Pajamas Media better.

re: #58 LilyGecko

I don't get it.

re: #40 buzzsawmonkey

Obama Derangement Syndrome = ODS.

ODS bodkins!

Well I'm not giving up..soon to file my own lawsuit with SCOTUS..
I have it from a very good source that Obama's Dad was really from the planet Mars.
A friend of a friend tells me his mom was from Venus...So i've still got some research to do yet..
I will not allow an Alien to run the US Gov't!

re: #48 zombie

Actually, I don't think he hits it out of the park at all. Why? Because he tacitly entertains the notion that Obama may not actually be Constitutionally eligible to be president. What Horowitz seems to be saying is, even if Obama is not a natural-born citizen, then we should just let him be president anyway, because we'd be taking away the votes of 64 million Americans.

I think that's a bad tack to take. The whole point behind the anti-birth-truth position is that Obama so obviously was born in Hawaii to an American citizen mother that all the wishful thinking in the world won't make it go away. Horowitz is opening to the door to the factual correctness that Obama is ineligible. Not a good plan.

Yes, I agree that it is sore-loserism -- just as is the anti-Proposition 8 frenzy that is happening in California. Except, here, there is a very good chance they may overturn the will of the people. The anti-Obama movement won't succeed, however.

Zombie I agree but without any proof otherwise we have to hope that he is eligible under the Constitution. If Bambi had sorted this out when it came out we would not be having this debate and would not have questioned the Constitution. Which maybe was his intention all along. Make it a living document.

re: #15 Kenneth

Kenneth,

I cannot read the page, please post the article as I heard that three supply convoys were attacked before they even started and that 70% of the supplies start from Peshawar.

re: #67 Last Mohican

I can't quite agree with Horowitz on this one.

If Obama were not a U.S. citizen, and therefore was not eligible for the presidency, and if he knew this but intentionally lied to or misled the public regarding his eligibility, or if he in any way covered up his ineligibility, then he should be disqualified. No matter how many millions of voters would be thus disenfranchised. No matter how many people started rioting in the streets.

The real reason this issue should be dropped is because there's simply no valid issue to be pursued. If someone could convince me otherwise, I'd change my mind, and I'd argue that Obama should be stripped of his office, even if he has already moved into the White House. So far, that hasn't happened.

Bravo.

Rush said earlier today that Obama isn't fixing the country. He is fixing the democratic party that is broken so that they will be in power again for the next 50 years.

re: #62 zombie

Horowitz is conceding the opposition's main factual point here -- that there is some doubt as to whether Obama was born in the U.S. Terrible debating blunder.

Sorry, z ... I disagree with this. He's not conceding the point. He's saying that it's a ludicrous, meaningless point. I don't see a concession here.

re: #62 zombie

Good point, Zomb. I figure he's more embarrassed by something in the certificate than anything else. I figure it has to do with his father and how his father is represented on the certificate. Nothing wrong, nothing illegal, nothing unconstitutional, nothing to prevent him from becoming president. Just a minor touchy detail to one person, and one person only.

Horowitz is making an odd argument. He's not arguing against the bringing of these suits. He's questioning the timing and intent of the suits at this moment, after the elections. It's the question that the Court is being ask to disenfranchise all those who voted for Obama that Horowitz takes exception with.

Sorry, but the Court would not be put in its position had the media done its job and actually reported and clarified all the nonsense about Obama's background when Obama first announced he was running for President. Obama did nothing to clarify this situation either and instead posted his responsa to the questions on his birth to Daily Kos. Still, that information was more than sufficient to show he was born a US citizen; the contemporaneous birth announcement is further circumstantial evidence of being born in the US as a US citizen.

Where Horowitz does get it right is that such lawsuits are corrosive to the political environment, but that's a problem that isn't confined to the right. It's a problem across the entire political spectrum (and the Obama trooferism is spurred by many a Democrat - see: Berg, Philip). Throw in the fact that the left hasn't had a problem engaging in corrosive politics since November 2000, when they couldn't bring themselves to admitting that their own candidate lost to George W. Bush and spent eight years castigating and claiming he was selected, not elected. Nothing could be more corrosive or undermining of the political process than that, and yet we hear nary a peep from the so-called intellectuals warning about just that ever since.

Friday night the new episode of "Numb3rs" made fun of conspiracy theory mongers. It was quite fun.

This is where Horowitz lost me:

What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on U.S. soil?

Sorry David, but it makes a huge difference to me.

And furthermore: Even though Obama seems to have been born on U.S. soil, I feel nothing in common with him. I can't find anything in his youth that is even remotely mirrored in my own. And this leaves me with the feeling that my president is someone foreign (in spirit, not nationality).

re: #4 Wyatt Earp

I'm wary of his blue lips. Always looks like he's eating a blueberry water ice.

It's hypoxia, from smoking all those cigarettes. Like carbon monoxide poisoning.

re: #41 father_of_10

The John Birch society was not nut-case conservatism. Parts of it evolved to that, but the Society itself is not.

My bad. Knee-jerk reactionism from my Democrat youth. Was going on the assumption JBS was a fringe organization.

Guess I have a reading assignment.

re: #65 Outrider

You are right. That is the implied message of his column. The disenfranchisement of 64 million voters trumps any and all constitutional aspects is what he is saying. Personally, I don't find it a "contested technicality" if it was in fact true; if that was the case than anything in our constitution could be found to be a "contested technicality" at convenience.
And he really needs to understand John McCain was born on a military installation OCONUS (out of the continental US) by a parents serving on military duty. One hell of a difference there.

To clarify; IF and that is IF this conspiracy had turned out to be correct THEN it would not be merely a "contested technicality", it would be a serious issue.
As it is, this issue should have been dead a long time back

I don't understand the downding.

re: #25 turn

This denunciation is not going to play well in the idle minds of those who think conservatives are all a bunch of wingnuts. Speaking of idle minds, what if anything does kos have to say about these nirth cirtifikit truthers? I guess I'll have to venture over the the dark side and scratch around a little bit. bbl

"None of this is going to prevent the idiot (Donofrio's) right from continuing to do all they can to deny that Obama is legitimate. And ultimately, it's not because he's Black, or liberal, and has a funny name. It's because he's not a God-fearing right-wing Republican."

I wonder if "DanK is back" the poster of that comment wouldn't also characterize we lizards as "God-fearing right-wink Republicans" as well.

re: #73 Westward Ho

try here: [Link: www.dailytimes.com.pk...]

then click the story in the top section

Peshawar slipping into chaos

PESHAWAR: Four years ago, journalists used to go to Waziristan for the story. Today, the story itself reached Peshawar. In October 2003, a team of journalists reached Baghar in South Waziristan, to file follow-up stories of the maiden airstrike on a suspected Al Qaeda or Taliban hideout. A local journalist planned an early morning departure for the site of the strike without official permission. Four years on, a look at the damage caused by Friday evening’s car bomb blast near the historic Qisakhawani bazaar and an attack on parked trucks carrying NATO supplies testifies the danger has arrived as close as possible. The government itself is a hostage. An Iraq-like green zone was established in Peshawar with checkposts on the roads leading to important offices and residences. High profile kidnapping and murders have added to the fears of Peshawar residents. Security analysts forecast that Peshawar might face an even worse scenario if over 500 hardened militants camping in Khyber Agency storm the provincial capital and the army is called upon to reclaim the city. The ever increasing pressure on Peshawar from militants will make things more difficult for the ANP government which is facing an ‘internal debate’ on whether to abandon governance or to take the fight to its logical end.The symptoms of a Beirut-like situation are emerging. Living in Peshawar is like dancing to the tune of death.

re: #79 vxbush

Friday night the new episode of "Numb3rs" made fun of conspiracy theory mongers. It was quite fun.

Ha! That's what they want you to believe!

re: #9 Noam Sayin'

Are we seeing the re-emergence of a Bircher-type, nut-case conservativism?

Exactly. Some have become unhinged by the Republicans loss of power. It's been steadily growing since 2003, and it's aided and abetted by the Naderite / Kucinich left.

re: #81 Ward Cleaver

It's hypoxia, from smoking all those cigarettes. Like carbon monoxide poisoning.

And apparently, he's still smoking. Lovely. The White House will reek of tobacco.

re: #84 turn

"None of this is going to prevent the idiot (Donofrio's) right from continuing to do all they can to deny that Obama is legitimate. And ultimately, it's not because he's Black, or liberal, and has a funny name. It's because he's not a God-fearing right-wing Republican."

I wonder if "DanK is back" the poster of that comment wouldn't also characterize we lizards as "God-fearing right-wink Republicans" as well.

nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more

re: #13 Cognito

Actually, you don't have to be born on US soil to be a "natural born" American. Offspring of American citizens born abroad are "natural born" Americans.
I don't know what the current laws and regulations say, but I know that when I was born (in Bolivia 1954) my father had to register my birth with the embassy. At that time Washington kept a record of such births......they probably still do.....for the express purpose of giving the kid documentation of "natural born," as opposed to "naturalized" status.

re: #83 Outrider

To clarify; IF and that is IF this conspiracy had turned out to be correct THEN it would not be merely a "contested technicality", it would be a serious issue.
As it is, this issue should have been dead a long time back

I don't understand the downding.

The issue IS dead. It's been dead ever since the Certificate of Live Birth was released, and it was killed again when the State of Hawaii CONFIRMED that they have Obama's actual birth certificate on file.

It's dead, Jim.

Obama's an American. Get over it.

re: #88 Wyatt Earp

And apparently, he's still smoking. Lovely. The White House will reek of tobacco.

Sadly, tobacco smoke won't be the only stench that stinks up the joint for the next eight years.

From the article:

"What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on U.S. soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for president trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?"

For me, the problem with this paragraph isn't the reference to Mr. Obama. Rather, it is the implication of "what difference does it make" followed by "But how viable will our constitution be..."

Let's assume a future candidate, not eligible under the Constitution, is elected by - say - 80 million people. Does that mean we have to make a choice between two competing Constitutional issues? I guess I don't follow the logic.

I don't care if everyone in the country voted for an ineligible candidate. He, or she, is still ineligible under the Constitution. If we wish to change the eligibility requirements, there's a mechanism for that: an amendment to the Constitution.

re: #92 Salem

Obama's an American. Get over it.

"It's over, Johnny. IT'S OVER!"

re: #93 Last Mohican

Sadly, tobacco smoke won't be the only stench that stinks up the joint for the next eight years.

Oh yeah, the corruption and the ineptitude. Forgot about that. :)

re: #71 Erik The Red

Zombie I agree but without any proof otherwise we have to hope that he is eligible under the Constitution. If Bambi had sorted this out when it came out we would not be having this debate and would not have questioned the Constitution. Which maybe was his intention all along. Make it a living document.

Give me a break, what kind of proof do you want? We have his Birth Certificate (oh, don't tell me, its only a certificate of live birth), a statement from Hawaii officials that they do have his BC, a contemporaneous announcement of his birth in a Honolulu newspaper.

What more could you possibly want?

re: #80 Sleepyone

This is where Horowitz lost me:

Sorry David, but it makes a huge difference to me.

And furthermore: Even though Obama seems to have been born on U.S. soil, I feel nothing in common with him. I can't find anything in his youth that is even remotely mirrored in my own. And this leaves me with the feeling that my president is someone foreign (in spirit, not nationality).

It doesn't mater whether he was born on U.S. soil, so long as he qualifies to be a natural born U.S. citizen, like McCain. Lots of people in the military have children that are born overseas, but as long as the parents are U.S. citizens, it doesn't matter.

re: #48 zombie

Except, here, there is a very good chance they may overturn the will of the people.

Do you really think so Zomb? Man that is really going to piss me off if that happens. As I've said before I don't really care one way or another about same sex marriage, what irked me and what prompted me to vote for 8 was the fact the judges tried to circumvent the will of the majority.

Where's Oliver Stone when you need him....

/

re: #91 Charles

The issue IS dead. It's been dead ever since the Certificate of Live Birth was released, and it was killed again when the State of Hawaii CONFIRMED that they have Obama's actual birth certificate on file.

It's dead, Jim.

Agreed. Can we move on to a new topic now?

re: #100 vxbush

Where's Oliver Stone when you need him....

/

He's penning the screenplay for this nonsense as we speak.

re: #100 vxbush

Where's Oliver Stone when you need him....

/

Snorting an 8-ball.

Oh lord, hasen't this 'issue' died yet?

People, conservatives lost because of an incredibly lame candidate and the MSM carryign water for the Dem's. this certificate nonsense is beneath us.

We Lost. Get Over It. And come up with a better candidate than the current crop of losers

re: #97 Lee Coller

Give me a break, what kind of proof do you want? We have his Birth Certificate (oh, don't tell me, its only a certificate of live birth), a statement from Hawaii officials that they do have his BC, a contemporaneous announcement of his birth in a Honolulu newspaper.

What more could you possibly want?

Don't forget the ancient Mayan prophesies about his birth.

re: #96 Wyatt Earp

Oh yeah, the corruption and the ineptitude. Forgot about that. :)

C'mon, there is hope. . .really, look at what my moonbats are posting around the office. . .

His true self is showing? Did he use us to get elected?

Ummmm. . .duh!

WOW. This is a bad argument, the worst in fact. I'm astonished anyone would make such a claim--- in other words, the author is saying that it's OK to elect Schwarzenegger too and ignore the "technicality."

OT:

UAW seeks GM board seat, equity stake for concessions

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- The United Auto Workers union is looking for a seat on General Motors Corp.'s board of directors and an equity stake in the automaker in exchange for concessions that would help the industry fetch billions of dollars in federal aid, according to a posting Monday on a North Carolina union local's Web site. The UAW concessions include allowing the domestic automakers to postpone their required health-care contributions from 2010 to 2012 and to eliminate the controversial jobs bank. GM shares jumped more than 16% in midday trades to $4.75.

re: #88 Wyatt Earp

And apparently, he's still smoking. Lovely. The White House will reek of tobacco.

Isn't it illegal to smoke in government buildings?

Guess that'll be his first Executive Order

Score one for Big Tobacco....

re: #97 Lee Coller

Give me a break, what kind of proof do you want? We have his Birth Certificate (oh, don't tell me, its only a certificate of live birth), a statement from Hawaii officials that they do have his BC, a contemporaneous announcement of his birth in a Honolulu newspaper.

What more could you possibly want?

I don't dispute ant of what you say. All I am saying is what were/are is motives for not dealing with this when it first surfaced? If any one here was accused of something and had the proof to refute that claim would you not do it asap.

re: #91 Charles

The issue IS dead. It's been dead ever since the Certificate of Live Birth was released, and it was killed again when the State of Hawaii CONFIRMED that they have Obama's actual birth certificate on file.

It's dead, Jim.

Which I have been saying since the Certificate of Live Birth was published. And again when the Secretary of Health made the statement a few months back.

My disagreement with Horowitz was stating that "64 million voters should be disenfranchised because of a contested technicality" if this conspiracy had been true.

Oh, and lumping all Conservatives in the conspiracy camp.

Are the nirthcert troofers going to start chanting "Blood and Soil!" next?

re: #104 Ward Cleaver

Snorting an 8-ball.

I tried that once. The guys in the pool hall gave me the strangest looks...

re: #89 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ha ha turn, wing not wink you dumb shit. Proof there is a difference between proofreading and spell checking. (ha spell check corrected a misspelling on this pots!)

re: #108 rrgg

WOW. This is a bad argument, the worst in fact. I'm astonished anyone would make such a claim--- in other words, the author is saying that it's OK to elect Schwarzenegger too and ignore the "technicality."

The "technicality" is the claim that he wasn't born on US soil. That is not the determining factor for US citizenship.

re: #36 Lanzman

Thanks for giving us the text. Notice that it says nothing about being born on American soil.
I think people get confused about this because we have a (stupid) law that says anyone born on American soil is a natural born American. From that we make the mistake of thinking that being born on American soil is the requirement for being "natural born."
Not so.....and we have 200+ years of history showing otherwise. Plenty of US citizens have had natural born offspring....i.e., naturally born to US citizens... that popped out in Fwance or Bangladesh.

re: #91 Charles

The issue IS dead. It's been dead ever since the Certificate of Live Birth was released, and it was killed again when the State of Hawaii CONFIRMED that they have Obama's actual birth certificate on file.

It's dead, Jim.

I agree the issue is dead. I just don't like how Horowitz seems to say it's would be okay to ignore or change the constitution so as not to piss off 64 million voters.

re: #105 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Oh lord, hasen't this 'issue' died yet?

People, conservatives lost because of an incredibly lame candidate and the MSM carryign water for the Dem's. this certificate nonsense is beneath us.

We Lost. Get Over It. And come up with a better candidate than the current crop of losers

Karma IS a bitch, huh? The legacy of their BDS is upon them. . .except many are fighting from the conservative side, this, the creation thing. . .you did not see many, if any instances when people stood up against the smears and horrible lies abour current president.

re: #95 Wyatt Earp

"It's over, Johnny. IT'S OVER!"

But that won't stop hucksters from selling the idea to the gullible who willingly part with their cash to be the first bug-eyed intellectual to have the "inside knowledge" that no one else has. You'll never hear the end of this one either.

Troofers have been around for hundreds of years. Now they have the innernut and cheap DVD production technology in their basements.

re: #91 Charles

The issue IS dead. It's been dead ever since the Certificate of Live Birth was released, and it was killed again when the State of Hawaii CONFIRMED that they have Obama's actual birth certificate on file.

It's dead, Jim.

Well then, that's the position Horowitz should be taking. He should be saying, "Obama is a natural-born U.S. citizen. Get over it, Truthers." What he should not be saying, and yes what he seems to be saying, is, "Well, even if he's not really a natural-born citizen, we should let him be president anyway, because it's corrosive and divisive to disenfranchise 64 million votes on a technicality."

Sorry, I just think that's a wrong-headed argument, and thus it's a weak column.

My argument would be:

Obama was self-evidently born to Ann Dunham.

The birth, with absolute certainty, happened in Hawaii, a U.S. state at the time.

Ann Dunham is a U.S. citizen.

Q.E.D. Obama is a natural-born U.S. citizen.

Game over. End of story.

That is the argument that needs to be made. None other.

re: #100 vxbush

Where's Oliver Stone when you need him....

/

Something tells me we will have a plethora of films in the upcoming years about Obama. The vast majority will be negative.

No one answered my question from the above thread, though. so I'll rephrase.

I really think Obama is an American. Said and done. Now: who is in a position to investigate something like this or other candidate validity issues in the future? Does the Federal Election Commission do so? Or is this a state-by-state issue, despite the fact that the Constitution lists the requirements for the office of president?

re: #114 Thanos

Are the nirthcert troofers going to start chanting "Blood and Soil!" next?

It is strange how a number of these nirth troofers are also euro-fascist supports, so perhaps they will.

re: #116 turn

Ha ha turn, wing not wink you dumb shit. Proof there is a difference between proofreading and spell checking. (ha spell check corrected a misspelling on this pots!)

But not that one.

re: #113 Outrider

Oh, and lumping all Conservatives in the conspiracy camp.

But he didn't do that at all. If you read the article it's extremely clear that it's targeted at the fringe kooks, not at "all conservatives."

re: #109 3 wood

OT:

UAW seeks GM board seat, equity stake for concessions

Sleeping with the enemy has become tres chic. . .

Sorry y'all - I believe Obama is a natural born American Citizen and properly should be sworn in as the next President of the United States.
But when Horowitz says: "Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for president trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?" [emphasis added, realwest] he's really wrong. There are ways to amend our Constitution. The fact that voters elected Obama can't nullify a Constitutional principle. That's why we have a SCOTUS in the first place, to rule on the constitutionality of numerous matters.
THAT part of his article wasn't a home run, it was a foul ball.
Otherwise I agree with his article.

re: #97 Lee Coller

Give me a break, what kind of proof do you want? We have his Birth Certificate (oh, don't tell me, its only a certificate of live birth), a statement from Hawaii officials that they do have his BC, a contemporaneous announcement of his birth in a Honolulu newspaper.

What more could you possibly want?

I didn't know that.

re: #108 rrgg

WOW. This is a bad argument, the worst in fact. I'm astonished anyone would make such a claim--- in other words, the author is saying that it's OK to elect Schwarzenegger too and ignore the "technicality."

Agreed. A terrible argument.

re: #124 NYCHardhat

Something tells me we will have a plethora of films in the upcoming years about Obama. The vast majority will be negative.

Really? I would have thought "Primary Colors" would have convinced you otherwise....

re: #85 Kenneth

Thanks kenneth,

The ANP debating whether it ought to run or not is scary, the Allies should seriously consider re routing supplies through other countries because there is no getting around the Khyber pass bottleneck.

re: #125 vxbush

The people who have standing now that it's past the nominating committee would be the electors in the electoral college.

re: #133 vxbush

Really? I would have thought "Primary Colors" would have convinced you otherwise....

Was that movie before or after the fat intern?

I don't care for the troofer nutz any more than anyone else but isn't Horowitz elevating shutting up the nutballz over an unconfirmed qualification of someone that just got elected president?

How can you honor the Constitution and NOT confirm Obama's qualification? Wouldn't it be Obama disenfranchising the voters rather than the Supremes who would simply be upholding (hopefully) the Constitution?

Will The Governator of California be running next and we all just say... pfft to the natural born citizenship thingy?

re: #105 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Oh lord, hasen't this 'issue' died yet?

People, conservatives lost because of an incredibly lame candidate and the MSM carryign water for the Dem's. this certificate nonsense is beneath us.

We Lost. Get Over It. And come up with a better candidate than the current crop of losers

Can't wait for Operation Chaos II.

re: #101 Ford_Prefect

I think what people are upset about, as much as anything, is their perception that this should have been a big issue. Nobody but the fringe even cares, and that upsets them.

That's just the state of the nation. The average voterer doesn't care. It's time to move on to other avenues of attack.

And in other news, Tribune Media company, owner of the LA Times, files for bankruptcy.

This is incredibly stupid, maybe even more stupid than the horsecrap the nirthers are trying to peddle:

What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on U.S. soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for president trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?

How viable is the constitution if it can be so willfully ignored... that all you need is to get "a bunch" of people to disagree, and suddenly the rules dicated in the constitution are mere technicalities or can otherwise be ignored? Hell, lets put Arnold Schwartzeneggar on the ballots; if he can get 70 million votes, what does it matter that the Constitution has specific rules against it?

re: #112 Erik The Red

If any one here was accused of something and had the proof to refute that claim would you not do it asap.

The burden of proof is on the accusers.

re: #98 Ward Cleaver

Exactly. Even if Obama had been born on Mars he would still be a natural born US citizen by virtue of his mother's citizenship.
Now, if folks want to say he isn't really her son but sailed into Roswell on a UFO, that's another story!

re: #128 Charles

But he didn't do that at all. If you read the article it's extremely clear that it's targeted at the fringe kooks, not at "all conservatives."

OK.

"Conservatives need to accept the fact that we lost the election, and get over it;"

I'm probably reading more into it than he intended.

re: #124 NYCHardhat

Something tells me we will have a plethora of films in the upcoming years about Obama. The vast majority will be negative.

Are you familiar with the people who make movies at all? There's a reason why a Che biopic has an A-list director & an A-list star, there's a reason why there has been an unending procession of anti-war bombs the last 7 years & not one pro-war, pro-American film.

re: #130 realwest

Your are correct.

re: #141 AMER1CAN

And in other news, Tribune Media company, owner of the LA Times, files for bankruptcy.

My, really?

re: #45 buzzsawmonkey

If America can't do that, how are we any better than a wayward African country after an election?

We have a better highway system.

But is not the goal of the left to establish the same kind of one party "democracy" that is all too common in the third world?

re: #111 taxfreekiller

uh

lots of out of wed lock kids born of GI's in Nam back in the day

are all of them U.S. Citizens?

Yes.

The law includes anyone who born abroad, if one parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years, and served in the military.

So. Yes.

Your = You

re: #87 Thanos

Exactly. Some have become unhinged by the Republicans loss of power. It's been steadily growing since 2003, and it's aided and abetted by the Naderite / Kucinich left.

The media loves these fringe conservative groups.....they whinge and complain about the fight not being done hard enough or that their specific issues are getting the time and attention they deserve...and the media points to them and associates these loons with the entire right of center crowd. Meanwhile, while the very similar loons on the hard left do the same actions, they are pretty much ignored since the overall message can't be tainted by a few whackjobs ranting from left field.

No one is going to police the right except those on the right. The fringe hae to be kept at or beyond the fringe - and exposed to be virtually the same as the nuts on the hard left.

I don't think it is coming from a loss of power. These nitwits never had any real power before. It comes from now having a voice courtesy of the internet and selected nitwits who provide oxygen to their lunacy. The legs come from the fact that they can be used a cudgel against the entire conservative group.

re: #138 RumbleNutz

Every secretary of state for all fifty certified his qualifications by placing his name on the ballot.

re: #107 DisturbedEma

His true self is showing? Did he use us to get elected?

“This Wasn’t Quite the Change We Envisioned.”

Ummmm. . .duh!

Good post. Updinged ya.

Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation.

And of our civility.

These nutcases want their way even though should they get, riots would ensue.

re: #141 AMER1CAN

And in other news, Tribune Media company, owner of the LA Times, files for bankruptcy.

Seriously?

They should have taken up a collection. Even after the election, I'd still pay them to release that videotape of Obama praising genocidal terrorists.

re: #102 buzzsawmonkey

There have been children of privilege in the White House (JFK, Bush I, Bush II), whose lives have little in common with mine. There have been those not born of privilege (LBJ, Nixon) whose lives had little in common with my "academic middle class" upbringing. There have been those with whom I have nothing in common, like the smarmy antisemite Carter. There have been those like Reagan, whose lives have been a wonderment, but which have been on a trajectory wholly unfamiliar to my life experience.

It is not that Obama's youth experience does not mirror mine; it is that, unlike most of the men mentioned above, his sympathies seem so transparently opposed to anything like an appreciation of the land he has now been elected to lead.

I agree with what you said Buzz. I tried to say as much but your gift with the written word is better than mine. I guess what I meant is really encapsulated in your last paragraph. Not a literal similar upbringing or experience but as you say, "an appreciation of the land he has now been elected to lead."

"Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation."

Elections are only sacred to lib/dems when they win.

I like David Horowitz - but he seems to forget that libs have no respect for election results. One only has to look at the stolen election in Washington state in 06, the race that Al Franken is trying to steal and the massive voter fraud the dems perpetuated with all the ACORN nonsense.

This in addition to the blatant judicial activism taking place in California (besides all the other states that have had their immigration laws overturned) with the will of the people constantly being overturned.

re: #127 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I actually did that on purpose BDVM, I thought you might find it funny. Really ...

re: #91 Charles

The issue IS dead. It's been dead ever since the Certificate of Live Birth was released, and it was killed again when the State of Hawaii CONFIRMED that they have Obama's actual birth certificate on file.

It's dead, Jim.

We're not arguing the issue of Obama's citizenship. We're saying that Horowitz has made a deeply flawed argument, here. (See post 13.)

re: #146 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are you familiar with the people who make movies at all? There's a reason why a Che biopic has an A-list director & an A-list star, there's a reason why there has been an unending procession of anti-war bombs the last 7 years & not one pro-war, pro-American film.

Exacting my point. No money in box office bombs. How can they spin this to make money. They will find a way.

It's amazing that David Horowitz and Charles are considered "right-wing" by the MSM, but are counseling sanity. On the other hand there's Andrew Sullivan who writes at the respected site of the Atlantic who still promotes Trig Palin conspiracies. And the MSM doesn't (moon)bat an eyelash.

And as far as respecting the sanctity of the voters' decision there's this:

The value of having Franken as the 59th Democratic vote would have to be balanced against the distracting and poisonous partisan battle that is likely to ensue from his selection — a clash that would dominate media coverage, force senators to take a tough vote and threaten the chamber’s ability to move forward on the Obama administration agenda.

In other words, it's not about the (correct) electoral results, it's about the power.

re: #159 turn

I actually did that on purpose BDVM, I thought you might find it funny. Really ...

Just having a little pedantic fun with ya.

I went and dug out my birth certificate, certified by the state of my birth. Here is what it says at the top:

CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH

Please- some of you need to get over the wording.

The difference it makes is that if this guy is not qualified to be POTUS then you've been had by the biggest con in history. That Horrowitz cannot see this is also one of the biggest shocks in history. Come on guys wake up. This is getting very scary.

re: #140 Iron Fist

I think what people are upset about, as much as anything, is their perception that this should have been a big issue. Nobody but the fringe even cares, and that upsets them.

That's just the state of the nation. The average voterer doesn't care. It's time to move on to other avenues of attack.

No, I think it is a dead issue because, as Charles said, the document was released a long time ago and therefore shouldn't be an issue anymore. It isn't about whether the average voter cares or not. It just isn't an issue anymore.

re: #17 legalpad

If he's the child of an American citizen, that's enough, I think. However, we all know what the Democrats and the media would be doing if he were Republican.

Yes, but on the bright side of that, SCOTUS would kick that, too.

re: #141 AMER1CAN

And in other news, Tribune Media company, owner of the LA Times, files for bankruptcy.

Personally I couldn't care less if they go to hell in a hand bag, but I would love if maybe they might just sell off the Cubbies oner ball player at a time. To the Yankees of course.

re: #152 Athos

The media loves these fringe conservative groups.....they whinge and complain about the fight not being done hard enough or that their specific issues are getting the time and attention they deserve...and the media points to them and associates these loons with the entire right of center crowd. Meanwhile, while the very similar loons on the hard left do the same actions, they are pretty much ignored since the overall message can't be tainted by a few whackjobs ranting from left field.

No one is going to police the right except those on the right. The fringe hae to be kept at or beyond the fringe - and exposed to be virtually the same as the nuts on the hard left.

I don't think it is coming from a loss of power. These nitwits never had any real power before. It comes from now having a voice courtesy of the internet and selected nitwits who provide oxygen to their lunacy. The legs come from the fact that they can be used a cudgel against the entire conservative group.

Yep, and the more noise about "hey, maybe there's some legitimacy here..." that we make the more likely these kookspiricists will appear in place of legitimate spokespeople for the Right in media timeslots. The nirth certifians need to be slapped hard by everyone on the right.

re: #155 Ojoe

And of our civility.

These nutcases want their way even though should they get, riots would ensue.

I don't think the possibility of riots should result in an ineligible person being able to lie to the American people and become president. If he were ineligible, he should be disqualified and punished, even if 100% of the people voted for him.

The point is, he is a natural-born citizen, and he is eligible.

re: #125 vxbush

No one answered my question from the above thread, though. so I'll rephrase.

I really think Obama is an American. Said and done. Now: who is in a position to investigate something like this or other candidate validity issues in the future? Does the Federal Election Commission do so? Or is this a state-by-state issue, despite the fact that the Constitution lists the requirements for the office of president?

That's my big question also. Is there a validation process, and if not should there be for future elections so we can avoid all this BS?

re: #68 Fat Jolly Penguin
I like this part of Moran's piece, about the Obama birth notice in the Honolulu Advertiser in 1961:

"If you believe the notice is a fake, why would someone back in 1961 seek to “plant” proof that Obama was born in the U.S.? Is it reasonable or even possible to believe that a conspiracy would go back that far? Who could have possibly known 47 years ago that Obama would be running for president and that it was necessary to print a blurb in a local paper that he was born in Hawaii rather than some other country in order to prove that he was a natural born citizen?

re: #146 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are you familiar with the people who make movies at all? There's a reason why a Che biopic has an A-list director & an A-list star, there's a reason why there has been an unending procession of anti-war bombs the last 7 years & not one pro-war, pro-American film.

But...but....but, how about "Tropic Thunder"?

(Okay, just kidding...you're absolutely right.)

re: #22 Honorary Yooper

I got my rear end dinged down in the dead thread spinoffs for linking to this very article. There are some serious troofers here (or their sockpuppets) just dinging comments and links.

I don't know how widespread the true tinfoil hattery is, but some normally sane people are pretty quick to bite you on this topic. I'm referred to as a troll, an o'bot, etc at a well known conservative forum by certain of the posters there, who I think really are off their meds. Most of the other commenters avoid pissing them off. They're constrained in their commentary here, being wary of certain nukage. A few harmless dorks without a real life can make a discussion board, and then the whole discussion into a circus.

re: #166 flabslab

Obama is not qualified to be POTUS or C-in-C for a number of reasons, just not because of the birth certificate nonsense.

re: #131 MandyManners

I didn't know that.

hotair.com...

re: #162 NYCHardhat

Exacting my point. No money in box office bombs. How can they spin this to make money. They will find a way.

But they haven't made any money on these films yet they keep on making them. Hollywood isn't money-driven, it's ideology-driven.

re: #165 Sharmuta

I went and dug out my birth certificate, certified by the state of my birth. Here is what it says at the top:

CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH

Please- some of you need to get over the wording.

Which is what mine says also. I was born in an Army hospital in Germany.

Wow, do these threads fill up fast.

re: #174 subsailor68

But...but....but, how about "Tropic Thunder"?

(Okay, just kidding...you're absolutely right.)

How was Tropic Thunder? The previews looked very funny.

re: #179 Outrider

Well- I guess that means you and I are ineligible to be POTUS. /////////

re: #154 midwestgak

His true self is showing? Did he use us to get elected?

“This Wasn’t Quite the Change We Envisioned.”

Ummmm. . .duh!

Good post. Updinged ya.

Thanks, it is kind of sad to see some of my coworkers- the few idealists among the crazed, who are younger than me and really fell for the slag he shoveled. . .but the code pinker in the office has a REAL problem with Larry. . .his "women do not have the brain for math" comment when he was at Harvard? And the total lack of union presence since the election. . . all very sad for them, it is sinking in now just how far the ride they were taken for will be. . .no joy for me, it will still suck for women like me in politics. . .I saw so much of my life experience in Palin. . .and wow, the way gender was used to attack her. . .by other women. . .which made it ok for all to follow suit. . .shudder, no political office for me. . .my kids could not take it, and I would probably throw down with anyone who savaged my family, especially my oldest son. . .

Why spend so much time on a Nirth Certifikit?

Why not ask about Stanley, who spent high school hangin' in anarchist row with commie teachers, and at the church that was so commie it was called The Little Red Church, and how much she indoctrinated little Barack in Red Ideology?

A little more relevant IMHO.

OT,

Who won the Franken vs Mitch race?

re: #53 Sharmuta

cemented the demented

Rotate!

re: #110 CIA Reject

Isn't it illegal to smoke in government buildings?

Guess that'll be his first Executive Order

Score one for Big Tobacco....

He'll have to stand outside, like smokers everywhere. Only he'll be surrounded by a circle of Secret Service agents, who will have to deal with the second-hand smoke.

re: #146 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are you familiar with the people who make movies at all? There's a reason why a Che biopic has an A-list director & an A-list star, there's a reason why there has been an unending procession of anti-war bombs the last 7 years & not one pro-war, pro-American film.

All true. Although I don't know many people who are 'pro-war,' per se.

It's funny how movie producers are baffled, again and again, by the success of movies that adhere to family values. It's a surprise to them each time.

re: #177 Lee Coller

hotair.com...

Thanks for the link.

re: #182 Sharmuta

Well- I guess that means you and I are ineligible to be POTUS. /////////

According to the conspiracy nuts? Nope. ;-)>

re: #146 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are you familiar with the people who make movies at all? There's a reason why a Che biopic has an A-list director & an A-list star, there's a reason why there has been an unending procession of anti-war bombs the last 7 years & not one pro-war, pro-American film.

What about Team America: World Police?

re: #110 CIA Reject

Isn't it illegal to smoke in government buildings?

Guess that'll be his first Executive Order

Score one for Big Tobacco....

Whoo hoo! Take that, hippies!

Gotta get some real work done. Play nice, lizards.

re: #178 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

But they haven't made any money on these films yet they keep on making them. Hollywood isn't money-driven, it's ideology-driven.

The anti-American films really started to get going during the latest Bush admin. They will pick up where they left off with Obama in 2 years time.

re: #185 Westward Ho

OT,

Who won the Franken vs Mitch race?

I want to know too. . .

re: #182 Sharmuta

Well- I guess that means you and I are ineligible to be POTUS. /////////

Well, we are about to have a black President, why not a blue one?

re: #187 Ward Cleaver

He'll have to stand outside, like smokers everywhere. Only he'll be surrounded by a circle of Secret Service agents, who will have to deal with the second-hand smoke.

Like Bill Clinton, he will go out on the balcony. And yeah.... that second hand smoke is a real threat out in the open air. In the middle of freaking DC.

re: #192 Wyatt Earp

Whoo hoo! Take that, hippies!

Next, cigarette ads return to TV!

/it's what up front that counts!

re: #172 trryhin

That's my big question also. Is there a validation process, and if not should there be for future elections so we can avoid all this BS?

That's an excellent point.

I'm also concerned about the millions of dollars that Obama raised in illegal foreign donations, and, even more important, the millions of fraudulent votes that ACORN and others were able to supply to him. I'm sure there were some illegal votes for Republicans, too, although I don't know that there's an ACORN-like organization that was funded by the RNC and worked on such a large scale.

Everyone jokes about all the dead and nonexistent people who vote in every election, but I don't think it's a laughing matter. It appears that there is basically zero policy in place to ensure the validity of votes in America. Other countries require voters to show photo ID and proof of eligibility. Why don't we? Why is our entire system of elected government being treated as a joke?

Again, the "technicality" that Horowitz is talking about is the claim that if Obama was born on foreign soil, he's not a US citizen.

And that's simply wrong. His mother was a US citizen, and that's all it takes. End of story.

re: #102 buzzsawmonkey

I can identify with Obama's upbringing in good part, which is one of the many reasons why I did not support his election. He is, without any reasonable doubt, a natural born American citizen. But to be an American, to identify with the country, to think of yourself as an American, is not a matter of birth.

re: #188 Cognito

All true. Although I don't know many people who are 'pro-war,' per se.

It's funny how movie producers are baffled, again and again, by the success of movies that adhere to family values. It's a surprise to them each time.

I am. . .once they are started, you are damn right I want them finished and won!

re: #201 Charles

Again, the "technicality" that Horowitz is talking about is the claim that if Obama was born on foreign soil, he's not a US citizen.

And that's simply wrong. His mother was a US citizen, and that's all it takes. End of story.

Exactly.

re: #194 NYCHardhat

The anti-American films really started to get going during the latest Bush admin. They will pick up where they left off with Obama in 2 years time.

First they'll make CHANGE!, A Story Of History.

re: #130 realwest

Yeah, I reckon I agree. Horowitz didn't frame this properly. However, if the court was going to visit this, it should have been before the election. Otherwise, it just doesn't work. And I don't doubt it would have come to the same thing-a needless distraction.

re: #196 ploome hineni

what I want to know, is why has Obama not produced a birth certificate AND a health report like every single other candidate when asked?

and did Granny have a funeral?

Forget that! Are you feeling any better, and did you go to the doctor's?

re: #123 zombie

Aww zombie - thats sooo .... rational! So common sense!

Troofers can't get their heads round stuff like that, it would rob their lives of 'meaning'.

re: #187 Ward Cleaver

He'll have to stand outside, like smokers everywhere. Only he'll be surrounded by a circle of Secret Service agents, who will have to deal with the second-hand smoke.

Lawsuit! Lawsuit!

re: #181 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

How was Tropic Thunder? The previews looked very funny.

Well, the first half hour is really very funny, but then it kind of goes a little off course. Don't want to say too much, but as a Saturday night beer and pizza flick it's a fairly decent rental.

Now you know why I lost my gig as a movie reviewer.

:-)

Ok, If he is qualified then there's plenty other material to attack this lying scumsucker with. But asking see the BC is not unreasonable. Furthermore, political rule of thumb number one.

If someone is hiding something they are usually hiding something.

init?

Personally I want the conspiracy theorists to continue to run with the story.

I know it's selfish but it comes from curiosity and boredom.

No good conspiracy does not somewhere deviate to blaming the Jews.

And I just can't wait to see the what twists and turns this needs to take to bring in the Jews to blame for Obama being born, wherever.

re: #205 Silhouette

First they'll make CHANGE!, A Story Of History.

Seriously, I am a Bush supporter and I would not go to a movie bashing Bush or supporting him. That is left to the troofer crowd. Hollywood knows who goes to these movies, the fringe wacko right and the moonbatshit left.

re: #208 yma o hyd

Aww zombie - thats sooo .... rational! So common sense!

Troofers can't get their heads round stuff like that, it would rob their lives of 'meaning'.

And they live quite nicely without the laws of physics and metallurgy. . .steel melting. . .the proof in the troofer pudding. . .

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tribune empire stares at bankruptcy

Its holdings include the Los Angeles Times, cable TV superstation WGN in Chicago, and the Baltimore Sun. The company even owns the Chicago Cubs baseball team.

re: #201 Charles

Again, the "technicality" that Horowitz is talking about is the claim that if Obama was born on foreign soil, he's not a US citizen.

And that's simply wrong. His mother was a US citizen, and that's all it takes. End of story.

As long as we're talking about technicalities and generalities.... No, technically that's not true. If born abroad, one parent must be a citizen and the other a US national.

Unless, as I noted earlier, one parent has lived at least five years in the US and served in the military or in a diplomatic role.

Again: Just speaking in generalities.

re: #174 subsailor68

But...but....but, how about "Tropic Thunder"?

(Okay, just kidding...you're absolutely right.)

Funniest movie of the year, hands down.

New thread please Charles! Nirth Cert trooferism is soooo boring.

re: #141 AMER1CAN

And in other news, Tribune Media company, owner of the LA Times, files for bankruptcy.

Will we ever get to see that video now, I wonder ...

re: #215 jcm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tribune empire stares at bankruptcy

Joy-gasm! Maybe if they actually reported the news, instead of commenting on it and pushing their agenda . . .

re: #215 jcm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tribune empire stares at bankruptcy

Best news I have heard in a long time.

Born in the USA.
Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just covering up

re: #209 Last Mohican

Lawsuit! Lawsuit!

He is gonna end up with a smoking lounge in the WH- you know that it will be described as a "risk" to have him on balconies or outside. . .yuck, stinking filthy habit! I used to smoke, quit 11 years ago-cold turkey- no help. . .it's called will power, dear leader, and you cannot scam it, you have to have it to exercise it

U.S. National
An individual who owes his sole allegiance to the United States, including all U.S. citizens, and including some individuals who are not U.S. citizens. These individuals would include citizens of certain U.S. possessions such as American Samoa and Northern Mariana Islands.

U.S. Citizen

1. An individual born in the United States.
2. An individual whose parent is a U.S. citizen.*
3. A former alien who has been naturalized as a U.S. citizen
4. An individual born in Puerto Rico.
5. An individual born in Guam.
6. An individual born in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

When running for public office:
1. Parents, wife, children, extended family, family trees, and your gene pool will be laughed about, talked about, and conspiracy theories will abound.
2. Your birth records, religion, or lack thereof, your friends in grade school, your prom date, draft card, tax records, and the vehicle you bought in 1980 will be checked and rechecked for accuracy -- and conspiracy theories will abound.
/some people are just that way.

United States nationality law:

Through birth abroad to one United States citizen

For persons born on or after November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[4]

* One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born;

* The citizen parent lived at least 5 years in the United States before his or her child's birth;

* A minimum of 2 of these 5 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law as it existed at the time of the individual's birth.

re: #201 Charles

Again, the "technicality" that Horowitz is talking about is the claim that if Obama was born on foreign soil, he's not a US citizen.

And that's simply wrong. His mother was a US citizen, and that's all it takes. End of story.

You are right. I had misread Horowitz's line about U.S. Soil and interpreted it as being a non-citizen. I stand corrected.

But I still stand by my feeling a disconnect to Obama and his upbringing and/or values. I still feel like a foreigner (in spirit) will be leading my country. I didn't experience a "connection" with Bill Clinton or George W. Bush, but I never doubted they loved this country. With Obama, I don't see it.

re: #201 Charles

Again, the "technicality" that Horowitz is talking about is the claim that if Obama was born on foreign soil, he's not a US citizen.

And that's simply wrong. His mother was a US citizen, and that's all it takes. End of story.

I'm with you completely on that one. I guess that's why in my post #94 I was more concerned with the issue of "eligibility" vs "will of the electorate" than anything to do with this non-issue.

re: #215 jcm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tribune empire stares at bankruptcy

Couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people- Cubs fans and fellow ChiHellgo people can attest to the thuggery and greed of the Cubs front office. . .tried to charge people for walking down the street near WF, and have been after the roof top watchers for years, terrible people running this group. . .

re: #201 Charles

Again, the "technicality" that Horowitz is talking about is the claim that if Obama was born on foreign soil, he's not a US citizen.

And that's simply wrong. His mother was a US citizen, and that's all it takes. End of story.

Is that true? I'm no Constitutional expert, but I thought the Constitution specifies that a President must be born (don't know the exact wording, sorry) "on American soil." Which is why McCain had to be legally ruled eligible when he ran for the White House in 1988 -- there was some question as to whether or not a U.S. military base in the US controlled Panama Canal Zone counted as "American soil." The courts ruled that it did count.

And also, it's why Alexander Hamilton never ran for the Presidency, despite being among the most well-known and well-loved founding fathers -- because he was born on Nevis (the Caribbean island), and thus was considered ineligible. As least I thought so.

I still think Horowitz took the wrong angle on this one.

re: #215 jcm

They also own channel 11, in NYC.

re: #219 yma o hyd

Will we ever get to see that video now, I wonder ...

Search e bay now. . .

I think the disagreement here with regards to Horowitz's piece is the contention that a popular vote trumps the constitution and the court has no say in it. I should hope he's wrong about that.

re: #166 flabslab

The difference it makes is that if this guy is not qualified to be POTUS then you've been had by the biggest con in history. That Horrowitz cannot see this is also one of the biggest shocks in history. Come on guys wake up. This is getting very scary.

BHO is manifestly not qualified to be president.
His campaign has been one of the biggest con jobs in history.
His impending administration is scary.
Those facts have nothing to do with his being born in Hawaii.

re: #217 doppelganglander

Funniest movie of the year, hands down.

Now, that I'll agree with...but I sure do miss the old Mel Brooks comedies.

:-)

re: #231 zombie

Is that true? I'm no Constitutional expert, but I thought the Constitution specifies that a President must be born (don't know the exact wording, sorry) "on American soil." Which is why McCain had to be legally ruled eligible when he ran for the White House in 1988 -- there was some question as to whether or not a U.S. military base in the US controlled Panama Canal Zone counted as "American soil." The courts ruled that it did count.

And also, it's why Alexander Hamilton never ran for the Presidency, despite being among the most well-known and well-loved founding fathers -- because he was born on Nevis (the Caribbean island), and thus was considered ineligible. As least I thought so.

I still think Horowitz took the wrong angle on this one.

From Article 2, Section 1:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

re: #216 Cognito

As long as we're talking about technicalities and generalities.... No, technically that's not true. If born abroad, one parent must be a citizen and the other a US national.

Unless, as I noted earlier, one parent has lived at least five years in the US and served in the military or in a diplomatic role.

Again: Just speaking in generalities.

Which, still talking in generalities and technicalities, is a moot point if said child is born on US soil, even if one parent is not a US national or a citizen.

The whole birth certificate flap bugs me as it appears to be a form of ODS. I have legitimate concerns about Obama being President, and this merely distracts from the larger picture of what he may or may not do with a New Deal II.

He was born in Hawai'i (a US state) to a US citizen. I suspect the reason behind not releasing the certificate has to do with something regarding his father's status on it, something he's touchy about, but 99% of could care less about. People are weird that way. Other than that, it could just be a reflex as others have proposed. Nothing wrong nor unconstitutional.

re: #231 zombie

Is that true? I'm no Constitutional expert, but I thought the Constitution specifies that a President must be born (don't know the exact wording, sorry) "on American soil."

No- it says "natural born". Nothing about "American soil" in the Constitution.

Last summer I had to renew my license (Stupid birthday. I'm old enough that I can buy what I want--reasonably--for myself, so birthdays only make me older.)

I needed my birth certificate, and duly went to look in the little fireproof safe we use for those. Uh oh. Being Mom, I had carefully kept everyone else's (Just for the record, some of my kids I have a certified copy of the actual birth certificate, and for some I have a page like Obama is releasing.) I sent away to California for a copy, for long-term use, then drove 45 minutes to my mother's house to get my baby book, into which is glued my birth certificate.

Problem. My original does not list the middle name. Oh-kay. Got an extension, and waited for the new, improved version from California.

I hadn't thought about my birth certificate before, but y'know, American birth certificates are valuable, valuable things. Seriously. I treasure mine, which is now in the fire-proof safe, along with all the other precious documents which record my citizenship in this fabulous country with its liberties and freedoms.

Oh, and I am still, as always against allowing the people who run the DMV to run my doctor's office. Not that they weren't nice.

re: #107 DisturbedEma

C'mon, there is hope. . .really, look at what my moonbats are posting around the office. . .

His true self is showing? Did he use us to get elected?

Did they vote for an ambitious politician? Heh™.

"But how viable will our Constitution be if five Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?"

I'd like to take issue with Horowitz here. If, in fact, it were true that Obama was born outside the USA, and did not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a "natural-born American", then those 64 million ballots were voided the day they were cast, because Obama had no business being on there in the first place. The fraud would be the fault of Obama himself, for running when unqualified to do so, and of the Democratic National Committee, for having failed to properly vet their candidate.

It's not the fault of the little child that the emperor is naked, when he remarks that the latter has no clothes.

If there is a Constitutional requirement that the President be a natural-born American, then there ought to be a procedure in place, such that would-be candidates could be vetted beforehand. Hopefully, such a procedure would stave off a repeat of this circus.

Now that Supreme Court has effectively ruled that Obama does meet the "natural-born American" test, hopefully the circus will subside a bit. The whole thing could have been avoided if all the candidates, at the primary stage, had laid out their bona-fides on the table.

The bigger issue to me is Obama's fear and lack of ethical candor in sealing his birth certificate record. I find him to be deceptive and disingenuous in many areas and this is just one more.

Remember how he denied filling out a questionaire and check the box in favor of gun-control? He blamed the check mark on a staffer, although his position had always been for gun control and his signature was on the form.

Then he said that he never said he would meet directly with Achmidenijihad without pre-conditions when that is exactly what he said?

On and on in goes, lie after lie, deception - and now he has fought to not reveal the actual birth certificate, which given is pattern of deception, means that he has something to hide. Not saying that he is NOT a citizen - but that he is definitely deceptive.

re: #226 Charles

United States nationality law:

Obama, I suspect, was born before 1986. And that's the bar set for plain citizenship, not the type of citizenship required for presidency.

It's ticky-tacky, I know. And maybe some people feel we should change that requirement -- but again, that's a different, larger argument.

re: #187 Ward Cleaver
I really feel sorry for his Secret Service detail- for that as well as many other reasons (like having to deal with the WAB).

re: #192 Wyatt Earp
Heh! :-)

re: #173 jaunte

I like this part of Moran's piece, about the Obama birth notice in the Honolulu Advertiser in 1961:

Heh.

Where's Dan Brown of DaVinci Code fame ....
He'd point out that the Vatican/the Jesuits/Opus Dei would of course ahve been able to do this!

Good thing that B0 isn't a Catholic - the mind boggles at what stuff troofers would come up with.

Moral of story: troofers need stuff like that like the air they breathe - never mind reality!

re: #235 Son of the Black Dog

BHO is manifestly not qualified to be president.
His campaign has been one of the biggest con jobs in history.
His impending administration is scary.
Those facts have nothing to do with his being born in Hawaii.

I wonder is flabslab thinks Sarah Palin was qualified to be VP?

re: #231 zombie

Is that true? I'm no Constitutional expert, but I thought the Constitution specifies that a President must be born (don't know the exact wording, sorry) "on American soil."

No, the Constitution says that naturalized American citizens are not eligible for the presidency. Obama is not a naturalized citizen, because he was never a citizen of any other country.

re: #231 zombie

Is that true? I'm no Constitutional expert, but I thought the Constitution specifies that a President must be born (don't know the exact wording, sorry) "on American soil." Which is why McCain had to be legally ruled eligible when he ran for the White House in 1988 -- there was some question as to whether or not a U.S. military base in the US controlled Panama Canal Zone counted as "American soil." The courts ruled that it did count.

And also, it's why Alexander Hamilton never ran for the Presidency, despite being among the most well-known and well-loved founding fathers -- because he was born on Nevis (the Caribbean island), and thus was considered ineligible. As least I thought so.

I still think Horowitz took the wrong angle on this one.

No, the Constitutional requirement is that a President must be "a natural-born citizen of the United States." "Natural-born citizen" isn't defined in the Constitution.

re: #232 NY Nana

They also own channel 11, in NYC.

And I believe LI and NYC Newsday.

Citizen born abroad?

re: #215 jcm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Tribune empire stares at bankruptcy

Yeah, I posted that this morning (from FNC). Only the first of many to fall.

re: #236 subsailor68

Now, that I'll agree with...but I sure do miss the old Mel Brooks comedies.

:-)

Anne's death really took him out, I heard. Talk about your Odd Couple!

re: #247 ploome hineni

I called the doctor, waiting for a callback

I feel like poopy

At least you called. I've had bouts of asthma, so I know how you've been feeling. Not fun.

re: #220 Wyatt Earp

Joy-gasm! Maybe if they actually reported the news, instead of commenting on it and pushing their agenda . . .

The NYSlimes isn't far behind.

The New York Times Company plans to borrow up to $225 million against its mid-Manhattan headquarters building, to ease a potential cash flow squeeze as the company grapples with tighter credit and shrinking profits.

And its a surprise when one decides to undertake actions and directions that alienate much of the potential customer base? I guess there aren't enough hard left barking moonbats to keep the NYT and LAT afloat.

re: #182 Sharmuta

Well- I guess that means you and I are ineligible to be POTUS. /////////

Mine Says CERTIFICATE OF DUMB BIRTH.
Feeling a little insecure right now.

re: #166 flabslab

The difference it makes is that if this guy is not qualified to be POTUS then you've been had by the biggest con in history. That Horrowitz cannot see this is also one of the biggest shocks in history. Come on guys wake up. This is getting very scary.

Obummer being a US citizen allows him to eligible for the position as POTUS - qualified is a whole different story but as far as I can tell my dogs are more qualified than this SoB.

re: #231 zombie

Nope. The Constitution states that he candidate for President must be a native-born US citizen. That includes people born to US citizens and certified as US citizens from birth even if born out of the country.

Natural-born citizen

re: #244 Cognito

Obama, I suspect, was born before 1986. And that's the bar set for plain citizenship, not the type of citizenship required for presidency.

It's ticky-tacky, I know. And maybe some people feel we should change that requirement -- but again, that's a different, larger argument.

Where is difference between "plain citizenship" and "the type of citizenship required for presidency" defined? I've never heard those terms before.