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Joe the Plumber: McCain 'Appalled Me'

Politics | Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:47:59 pm PST

Hey, Joe. Where you going with that wrench in your hand? Joe the Plumber: McCain ‘appalled me’.

Joe Wurzelbacher lashed out at former GOP presidential nominee John McCain Tuesday, the man who made Wurzelbacher famous as “Joe the Plumber.” Wurzelbacher told conservative radio host Glenn Beck that he felt “dirty” after “being on the campaign trail and seeing some of the things that take place.”

Recalling a conversation he had with McCain about the $700 billion financial industry bailout in September, Wurzelbacher said: “When I was on the bus with him, I asked him a lot of questions about the bailout because most Americans did not want that to happen.”

“I asked him some pretty direct questions,” he continued. “Some of the answers you guys are gonna receive — they appalled me, absolutely. I was angry. In fact, I wanted to get off the bus after I talked to him.”

Asked why he didn’t leave McCain’s campaign if he was “appalled” by the candidate, Wurzelbacher said, “honestly, because the thought of Barack Obama as president scares me even more.”

That pretty much says it all. I voted for John McCain under great duress, despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated. This is what I wrote on February 5th, the night before Super Tuesday, when I endorsed the only remaining alternative, Mitt Romney:

If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

I wish I had been wrong. But I wasn’t.

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1203 comments

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1 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:32pm

ahhhh a breath of fresh air

2 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:32pm

You obviously have not lived in Massachusetts. Endorsing Romney is like putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger.

3 Dayenu  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:40pm

Giulliani in '12?

How did Rudy manage to run such a miserable campaign, now that I think about it...

4 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:45pm

Joe was not alone in holding his nose.

5 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:50:18pm
That pretty much says it all. I voted for John McCain under great duress, despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated.

That pretty well sums up my feelings, and why McCain lost.

6 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:50:56pm

Joe the Plumber '08.......

He's got to be better than anyone inside the Beltway.

7 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:06pm

re: #5 jcm
what you said.

8 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:06pm

Politics is not for the squeamish.

9 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:32pm

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in that bus.

10 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:39pm

re: #8 itellu3times
nor republicans

11 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:43pm

McCain was bad. BHO will probably be worse. Where, oh, where is there conservative (non so-con) in the Repub party?

12 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:56pm

re: #5 jcm

That pretty well sums up my feelings, and why McCain lost.


See from my perspective, he was not that bad. . .but I was a democrat then, and dear leader as president was just wrong. . .sigh

Who was this Mitt guy? jk, I know. . .but I am guessing even I would have voted for ABO= anyone but O

13 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:11pm

re: #6 jcm

Joe the Plumber '08.......

He's got to be better than anyone inside the Beltway.

2008?

14 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:32pm

Absolutely.

I wish politicians had balls like Joe the Plumber - high carbon steel.

15 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:43pm

He's more like us than he realizes.

16 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:45pm

You weren't wrong, and Joe Wurzelbacher certainly wasn't alone in thinking that McCain wasn't up to the task of leading the GOP to win (if it was possible at all).

I think many people were questioning McCain's endorsement of the bailout, and those questions should ring even louder now. The earlier bailout to save people from foreclosure has turned out to be a disaster. Throwing money at the problem isn't solving matters either - it's delaying the necessary lessons from being learned about cheap and easy credit.

As for the rest, McCain ran a lackluster campaign and the one bright spot was the choice of Palin. It was the one thing that really got people talking about his campaign, but that was more than offset by his ground game, and McCain's was sorely lacking. There was a real lack of enthusiasm among the GOP, and many simply didn't get out in vote. Had all those who voted for Bush in 2004 voted for McCain, he might have still lost, but the down-races would have been far more interesting.

17 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:53:10pm

re: #14 Noam Sayin'

Rust never sleeps, that's why so many prefer brass.

18 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:53:47pm

re: #11 Russkilitlover

McCain was bad. BHO will probably be worse. Where, oh, where is there conservative (non so-con) in the Repub party?

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

19 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:53:53pm

re: #13 MandyManners

2008?

By an act of Congress, we're going to repeat 2008 again next year, and this time we'll get it right.

20 pat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:05pm
"That pretty much says it all. I voted for John McCain under great duress, despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated. This is what I wrote on February 5th, the night before Super Tuesday, when I endorsed the only remaining alternative, Mitt Romney:

If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

I wish I had been wrong. But I wasn’t."

Took the words right out of my mouth, CJ.

21 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:12pm

"Sarah Palin was the absolute real deal". Yeah, tell that to the Repubs.

22 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:18pm

Just another election like so many others in my life where you wind up voting "no" instead of "yes".

23 maddogg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:23pm

Well if Joe was holding his nose before, I expect he is wearing a full blown biohazard suit now.

24 picaro  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:26pm

I voted for Palin. McCain was just tagging along.

25 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:27pm

re: #13 MandyManners

2008?

LOL! I haven't given up yet!
PIMF

26 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:57pm

re: #3 Dayenu

Giulliani in '12?

How did Rudy manage to run such a miserable campaign, now that I think about it...

Simple. He tried to avoid running in the caucuses and held out hope that he could simply sweep in, take FL and roll on to victory from there. In hindsight it was a bad move. It was a bold but risky move but had he managed to win FL, it could have changed the way the primaries turned out. Still, Rudy presented many of the same faults McCain did on social policy.

27 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:55:24pm

re: #24 picaro

I voted for Palin. McCain was just tagging along.

I echo that sentiment.

28 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:55:33pm

re: #26 lawhawk
but he would have been better.

29 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:55:51pm

Looks like I am Joe the Plummer again.

30 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:56:27pm

re: #29 Rancher
rancher? rustler?

31 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:56:35pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

Yup. And how's that gonna fare for the conservative/republican, dare I say it? THE REPUBLIC party?

32 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:15pm

Romney/ Guiliani / Thompson with Palin would have been closer to a win, but I don't think it would have been enough, not this year.

33 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:17pm

The fact that McCain did as well as he did only shows Paddy O'bama's weakness.

I tend to think the Romney and Huckabee split the conservative vote and McCain was the benefactor.

Are there any Republican leaders out there? I think there's an opening...

34 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:17pm

re: #8 itellu3times

Politics is not for the squeamish.

It's a sausage factory - no one wants to see how it's done, and right now the epicenter is the slaughterhouse known as the Chicago Machine. At least with sausage, you have an expectation that it might turn out tasty and filling. Politics? Not so much.

35 bravesoat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:26pm

I voted for Joe Biden. Obama was tagging along [with the SEIU/FBI/Rev Wright/Freedom Fighter Ayers]

36 winston06  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:36pm

We now have to make sure that McCain doesn't help Sen. Obama get away with his radical agenda. McCain has a history of doing some silly stuff. 2012 is not so far away. GOP will make a comeback

37 USCMSNE  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:45pm
If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

Win or Lose, you would still have been right.

/I'd still rather have him in there, though.

38 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:58:01pm

re: #32 Thanos
without the economy nobama would have been less likey to win.

39 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:58:03pm

re: #14 Noam Sayin'

*pinch*

40 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:58:55pm

re: #19 itellu3times

By an act of Congress, we're going to repeat 2008 again next year, and this time we'll get it right.

I'm all for that.

41 picaro  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:14pm

re: #31 Russkilitlover

I lean socially conservative and I voted for Rudy. I figured he would not be appointing any Souters or Kennedys.

42 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:15pm

re: #32 Thanos

Romney/ Guiliani / Thompson with Palin would have been closer to a win, but I don't think it would have been enough, not this year.

I'm going to stick up for Rudy here, because I spoke with a few moderates and with some liberals who were excited about him during the primaries. I think Rudy would have had the broadest appeal to the moderate and independent voters of any of our candidates.

43 bryantms  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:23pm

I've given all but given up hope for the next four years. I know that Obama will not be good for any of the situations we now face, the economic crisis, Iran, Iraq, etc...

On the other hand, I'm secretly (or not so secretly) hoping that this sets us up for a strong conservative (one in which we haven't seen for many years) four years from now.

44 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:32pm

re: #35 bravesoat

I voted for Joe Biden. Obama was tagging along [with the SEIU/FBI/Rev Wright/Freedom Fighter Ayers]

/
Have one of mine, you must have forgot it.

45 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:42pm

re: #25 jcm

LOL! I haven't given up yet!
PIMF

Tenacity's a good thing.

46 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:48pm

re: #17 itellu3times

Think you missed the point.

Still love the avatar, though.

47 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:53pm

re: #27 Sleepyone

I echo that sentiment.

Ditto.

48 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:00:10pm

re: #39 MandyManners

*pinch*

*giggle*

49 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:01:05pm

re: #43 bryantms

I've given all but given up hope for the next four years. I know that Obama will not be good for any of the situations we now face, the economic crisis, Iran, Iraq, etc...

On the other hand, I'm secretly (or not so secretly) hoping that this sets us up for a strong conservative (one in which we haven't seen for many years) four years from now.

Who? Who is this person?

50 Spar Kling  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:01:07pm

The horror is now beginning to dawn on the radical Left that they actually elected a clone of John McCain and that the election was a card trick.

Pick a card . . .

-sk

51 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:01:19pm

We've been had by the dems and the republicans.

52 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:11pm

Mitt's going to run into problems going forward, especially with the anti-Mormon backlash resulting from Prop 8 in CA. That's not going to make him many friends among moderates and independents.

As for others, I think Rudy's going to be passed by in 2012 - this was his shot. There's got to be some fresh blood and someone has to pick up the reins of the GOP. Maybe it's JC Watts. Could be Jindal (though I know Charles would dismiss him because of the ID in school fiasco).

I'd be curious to see who shows up to CPAC and gives a barnburner that sets forth a policy platform and lays out a strategy of conservatism to move forward. Navel gazing isn't going to get it done.

It also means starting the ground game for 2010 now and working to deal with winning back Congress in increments. Start with the House in 2010, and then try for the Senate in 2012 along with the WH.

53 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:13pm

re: #50 Spar Kling

The horror is now beginning to dawn on the radical Left that they actually elected a clone of John McCain and that the election was a card trick.

Pick a card . . .

-sk

Damn, perking up that karma thing, huh.

54 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:25pm

OT
Al Gore News Alert:
It is snowing/sleeting hard in Dallas, Texas right now.
No accumulation, the ground is still 60°F.

55 picaro  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:47pm

Well, I'm off to a GOP Christmas party.

57 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:03:54pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Who? Who is this person?

Michael Steele.

58 wiffersnapper  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:03:56pm

Glad to see Joe and Charles think the same way I do!

59 ivrydov  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:03pm

Joe the Plumber saw them both up close and got to talk to them so that makes his observations unique.

McCain was up against it and I don't think anyone could have done better. The economy basically collapsed and it was easy for the other side to blame Bush. He was being outspent something like 9 to 1. He had the MSM against him, they participated in the most despicable smear job on a candidate ever, against Sarah. There was an unconscious wish among many to see a black candidate, any black candidate, elected in the light of US history
As it turned out, backing that $700 billion giveaway stripped him of any chance of distinguishing himself from the other guy. At that point he had to be creative and he wasn't. Game over.

60 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:30pm

I'm appalled too - that Sarah Palin had larger stones than McCain. McCain is so middle of the road he is damn near democrat. Yet, he was no match for The One™

61 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:45pm

I voted against Obama before I voted for McCain.

62 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:46pm

re: #46 Noam Sayin'

Think you missed the point.

Well, not for the first time, that.

Reminds me of a spam from the other day, "Never be flaccid again!"

Never? Oy.

63 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:49pm

re: #57 VegasRick

Michael Steele.

I need to learn more about him, but from what I've seen so far, I like him.

64 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:49pm

re: #52 lawhawk

Mitt's going to run into problems going forward, especially with the anti-Mormon backlash resulting from Prop 8 in CA. That's not going to make him many friends among moderates and independents.

As for others, I think Rudy's going to be passed by in 2012 - this was his shot. There's got to be some fresh blood and someone has to pick up the reins of the GOP. Maybe it's JC Watts. Could be Jindal (though I know Charles would dismiss him because of the ID in school fiasco).

I'd be curious to see who shows up to CPAC and gives a barnburner that sets forth a policy platform and lays out a strategy of conservatism to move forward. Navel gazing isn't going to get it done.

It also means starting the ground game for 2010 now and working to deal with winning back Congress in increments. Start with the House in 2010, and then try for the Senate in 2012 along with the WH.

I've long thought Watts could have been our first black president. I was, however, disappointed in his remarks about Obama. Something to the effect that he was excited to see a black candidate get so far. Reading between the lines I got the impression that he would probably vote for B.O. based on race. He never said that, but it's what I inferred from his comments. Disappointing...

65 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:13pm
66 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:16pm

re: #62 itellu3times

lol

67 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:20pm

re: #57 VegasRick

Michael Steele.

Not a bad pick, not bad at all. Wonder if he'd consider it?

68 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:23pm

re: #60 Racer X

I'm appalled too - that Sarah Palin had larger stones than McCain. McCain is so middle of the road he is damn near democrat. Yet, he was no match for The One™

When you're in the middle of the road, you get run-over.

69 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:34pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

That's what Obama said a few years ago. I don't believe anything any of these politicians say.

70 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:42pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

I need to learn more about him, but from what I've seen so far, I like him.

I like him a lot.

71 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:46pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

Louisiana Governor Jindal Will Not Run For US President In 2012

I seem to recall a junior Senator from Illinois saying roughly the same thing a while back. He won the 2008 Presidential elections in November. Barack Obama.

Politicians lie. Or they don't show all their cards. Or, they'll say that they changed their minds. Obama did in a hurry.

Jindal may simply change his mind and see that the time (and the field of GOPers) is right for him to make a run. He'll have a full term as Governor under his belt, and we'll see what he can do to improve the situation in the Bayou.

72 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:06:29pm

We could have run Ronald Reagan and lost due to the meltdown.

73 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:06:57pm

re: #71 lawhawk

I agree, I just thought I'd add it to the discussion. IMO, he's a sure loser and would guarantee another 4 years for 0bama.

74 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:03pm

re: #67 Hobbes

Not a bad pick, not bad at all. Wonder if he'd consider it?

He is looking to run the Repub party right now. I'll get you the link if you want.

75 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:10pm

re: #62 itellu3times

Okay...I almost spewed my drink on that one. Up-ding!

I'm reminded of the laxative that says, "Works while you sleep." I don't want that.

76 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:15pm

Can you believe this shit?!?

No protection= slaughter that is your own fault
Protection=lives saved. . .

Jews should choose death?

77 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:40pm

re: #71 lawhawk

Bill Richardson also said he wouldn't run.

78 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:03pm

re: #72 Rancher

We could have run Ronald Reagan and lost due to the meltdown.

It was a perfect storm. Untouchable opponent, media bias, economy, blame Bush, gas prices.

79 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:15pm

Wow. I must say that I'm surprised to hear that Charles endorsed Romney. I did not know that.

80 maddogg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:32pm

It's over. 'nuff said. At least on my part.

81 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:57pm
82 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:06pm

re: #77 Rancher

Bill Richardson also said he wouldn't run.

Bill "Diablo" Richardson didn't run. He walked.

83 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:22pm

re: #79 Lincolntf

Wow. I must say that I'm surprised to hear that Charles endorsed Romney. I did not know that.

Well, he did say

when I endorsed the only remaining alternative, Mitt Romney

which is how I think it went down for a lot of us.

84 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:41pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

I hope not.

85 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:54pm

re: #82 VegasRick

Bill "Diablo" Richardson didn't run. He walked.

Thought he was viable. . until his pipeline idea. . .

86 Dave the.....  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:26pm

Charles and Joe-the-Plumber just described the feelings of 70% of those who aren't tied to the Democrat party.

87 LGoPs  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:37pm

re: #60 Racer X

I'm appalled too - that Sarah Palin had larger stones than McCain. McCain is so middle of the road he is damn near democrat. Yet, he was no match for The One™

Why vote for a near democrat when you can have the real thing. Some republicans - the rinos - will never learn.

88 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:41pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

Of course he is, he's a politician. They all lie. Some do it better than others. Clinton even got open admiration for his skill at it.

89 bryantms  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:56pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Who? Who is this person?

I don't know yet...hopefully somebody that catches on so they don't have the inexperience thing going, but someone who gets back to what really matters. Someone fresh that sheds this feeling of angst towards the current president and the current Republican party. Someone new...

90 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:13pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

Pssshaa!

He's a politician.

They all lie.

91 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:33pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

I disagree. Most of the moderates I spoke to before the election had already decided to go with the "American-Idol" flow and were definitely going to vote for Obama, whether they knew it or not. The primary-season posturing was their exit strategy from common sense, with the big O as the ultimate socially acceptable goal.

92 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:40pm

re: #82 VegasRick

Bill "Diablo" Richardson didn't run. He walked.

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

93 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:41pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

I'm going to stick up for Rudy here, because I spoke with a few moderates and with some liberals who were excited about him during the primaries. I think Rudy would have had the broadest appeal to the moderate and independent voters of any of our candidates.

I agree with you, but I found a lot of "so-cons" who also would have preferred Rudy to McCain.

94 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:56pm

re: #59 ivrydov

Joe the Plumber saw them both up close and got to talk to them so that makes his observations unique.

McCain was up against it and I don't think anyone could have done better. The economy basically collapsed and it was easy for the other side to blame Bush. He was being outspent something like 9 to 1. He had the MSM against him, they participated in the most despicable smear job on a candidate ever, against Sarah. There was an unconscious wish among many to see a black candidate, any black candidate, elected in the light of US history
As it turned out, backing that $700 billion giveaway stripped him of any chance of distinguishing himself from the other guy. At that point he had to be creative and he wasn't. Game over.

Some excellent points ID. This election was just weird, the weakest candidates were the nominees. I strongly suspect like some others that Obama was just testing the waters with this election and that he never expected to win this thing on his first try. The media's interference with this election was crucial to Obama's victory.

95 Boxy_brown  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:56pm

Et tu, Joe the Plumber?

96 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:12:40pm

re: #81 Charles

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. The msm will continue to push him on us to help create a "grassroots" desire for his candidacy in which he'll be "compelled" to give the people their wish.

97 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:13:05pm

re: #87 LGoPs

Why vote for a near democrat when you can have the real thing. Some republicans - the rinos - will never learn.

Every election is a vote for the smarterer idiot.

98 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:13:22pm

re: #92 Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

Me too. He was great in one debate, then fell asleep.

99 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:20pm

re: #71 lawhawk

I seem to recall a junior Senator from Illinois saying roughly the same thing a while back. He won the 2008 Presidential elections in November. Barack Obama.

Politicians lie. Or they don't show all their cards. Or, they'll say that they changed their minds. Obama did in a hurry.

Jindal may simply change his mind and see that the time (and the field of GOPers) is right for him to make a run. He'll have a full term as Governor under his belt, and we'll see what he can do to improve the situation in the Bayou.

Jindal thus far is mostly appearances, little substance.

100 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:22pm

re: #97 Racer X

Every election is a vote for the smarterer idiot.

Yep, lesser of the anvils.

101 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:29pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. The msm will continue to push him on us to help create a "grassroots" desire for his candidacy in which he'll be "compelled" to give the people their wish.

Indeed, my Lizard friend. We were force-fed McCain, too, IMHO.

102 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:35pm

re: #11 Russkilitlover

There's no "probably" about it. The only question is how bad will he actually be? We've still not recovered from the Legacy of Jimmy Carter. we may not recover from Obama in my lifetime.

103 Dave the.....  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:41pm

Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

I recall the interview of Big Fred. You could tell that he had about a dozen other things he'd rather be doing then giving this interview. His heart just wasn't into campaigning.

104 LGoPs  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:55pm

re: #88 Hobbes

Of course he is, he's a politician. They all lie. Some do it better than others. Clinton even got open admiration for his skill at it.

You're right.....I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for raising my blood pressure. There actually were people that liked the way he lied.......I remember being apoplectic about it, saying if a 5 year old pulled that shit I'd of smacked him and sent him off to bed without dinner. Everybody else just lapped it up........still shaking my head over it.

105 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:15:54pm

New Monk episodes in 30 days

106 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:08pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. The msm will continue to push him on us to help create a "grassroots" desire for his candidacy in which he'll be "compelled" to give the people their wish.

I wouldn't be bothered too much voting for Jindal but I don't think he could beat Obama in a national election. And while I don't care about his creationist leanings, the MSM would tear him apart.

107 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:16pm

I just scrolled up a bit.
Romney was my Governor in MA. He was the last man standing after the one-Party cesspool hit critical mass. He left the State, wisely, and MA has been circling the bowl ever since. Romney is (in my jaded and oft disillusioned view, I'm no naif) an honest, hard-working, demonstrably competent politician. Such people are rare.

108 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:34pm

re: #92 Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

Thompson was the deciding vote in the Senate to NOT impeach Clinton. IIRC

109 blangwort  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:54pm

re: #57 VegasRick

I wish Mike Steele would have won that election for Maryland Senator. At present, the only claim he has to office is that he was the Republican Lieutenant Governor for Maryland once. If he does well as head of the GOP, I think he might make something of himself, though I really think he needs more time in the trenches before he runs for the office.

110 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:55pm

re: #106 Sleepyone

I wouldn't be bothered too much voting for Jindal but I don't think he could beat Obama in a national election. And while I don't care about his creationist leanings, the MSM would tear him apart.

But then again, I'd vote for an old shoe over any Democrat.

111 ornery elephant  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:17:34pm

I'm not feeling too confident about the mid terms in 2010 but I think Conservatives CAN make some gains, but a lot depends on who starts to lead the Republicans about that same time. From a Presidential candidate standpoint, I think the following tickets could really rally the base:

Duncan Hunter/Jindahl

Mitt Romney/Palin

112 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:18:22pm

re: #109 blangwort

I wish Mike Steele would have won that election for Maryland Senator. At present, the only claim he has to office is that he was the Republican Lieutenant Governor for Maryland once. If he does well as head of the GOP, I think he might make something of himself, though I really think he needs more time in the trenches before he runs for the office.

I agree, running the GOP is a good start and I think he will do a great job.

113 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:18:45pm

And I agree, the good thing about the Obama win is that McCain won't be president.

Didn't he essentially campaign for Obama?

Palin/Fitzgerald 2012

114 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:15pm

We have to straighten out Congress. We can start that in 2 years. I say get rid of all of them. How about some new blood that has not been bought by special interests.

115 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:25pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

Sorry- any ticket that includes Jindal is going to lose.

116 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:40pm

re: #114 yah

We have to straighten out Congress. We can start that in 2 years. I say get rid of all of them. How about some new blood that has not been bought by special interests.

I'm all for cleaning house. The whole lot of 'em.

117 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:46pm

re: #98 VegasRick

To prove how out-of-step I am, I think one of Fred Thompson's strengths was that he didn't subscribe to the notion that the longest campaign is the best campaign. He said what his beliefs were and I agreed with him. What else was there to say? Unfortunately, that doesn't sell these days.

118 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:57pm
119 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:11pm

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

120 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:15pm

If Bobby Jindal is the Republican nominee in 2012, I'll be voting Democrat.

I will not vote for that man.

121 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:34pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

Mitt Romney/Palin

Nice.

122 taejohndo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:37pm

re: #105 Harry Tuttle

New Monk episodes in 30 days

It's a blessing...and a curse...

123 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:43pm

re: #119 bellamags

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

By firing Fitzgerald, yes.

124 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:44pm

re: #110 Sleepyone

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.
Playing right into the hands of the MSM every time we artificially magnify the scope of the Religious Right.
Oh well, eventually reality will settle in on both the "pro's" and the "anti's" and people can begin discussing things that really matter.

125 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:55pm

re: #104 LGoPs

LOL

126 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:17pm

re: #120 Charles

If Bobby Jindal is the Republican nominee in 2012, I'll be voting Democrat.

I will not vote for that man.

Bummer.

127 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:32pm

re: #108 Racer X

No. Clinton was impeached by the House. The Senate refused to convict him and remove him from office. It wasn't even close. Basically the Senate said "So what?", because no one really disputed the charges. It was just another example of the Democrats playing with their own special rules.

128 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:44pm

re: #103 Dave the.....

Rancher

I recall the interview of Big Fred. You could tell that he had about a dozen other things he'd rather be doing then giving this interview. His heart just wasn't into campaigning.

In my opinion, Americans respond to a straight-shooter (like Fred or Sarah), not a lawyer who parses every sentence (like O'bama) or a moderate "I'll-not-disparage-my Democrat-brothers" like McCain.

Winning 2012 Strategy: Gloves-off conservatism--defend Capitalism, and accept your nationality (U.S. of A.) without apology.

129 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:53pm

re: #107 Lincolntf

after the one-Party cesspool hit critical mass.

Nicely said. Can you imagine a one party cesspool after 30 years or so? Hello Saddam's henchmen and Castro Prisons Inc.

130 jorline  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:57pm

I see "Joe the Plumber" is now "Joe The Bus Driver". If he was so appalled by McCain he should have removed himself from the limelight?
Joe had his 15 minutes, time to move on.

131 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:22:28pm

re: #111 ornery elephant
I could sure go for Duncan Hunter - Jindal I'm not so sure.

132 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:22:42pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.

I call bullshit, period.

133 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:23:33pm

re: #119 bellamags

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

Certainly he would. What remains to be seen is whether he'll promote Fitzgerald to AG just to get him out of the Illinois clean-up business before his name becomes more prominent. He said he would leave him in Illinois, but who knows...?

134 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:23:49pm

Jindal talked soft on creationism because he's in Louisiana. Put him in a national race and he'd sing a different tune. Jindal is a smart guy. With the right handler, he'll go far. Probably a Cabinet position. Not the White House.

But then, I thought Americans would drag McCain into the WH. So you're better off hitting me up for advice about statistical multiplexing, or something similarly straightforward.

135 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:23:59pm
136 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:03pm

re: #130 jorline

Joe was approached in his own backyard by a roving campaign appearance featuring the President-elect. He's hardly a limelight hog. People asked for his opinion, and continue to, so he gives it to them. Good for him.

137 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:09pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

Mitt Romney/Palin

I'm not so confident that Romney could have beaten Obama but I sure he was president-elect right now.

138 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:13pm

whoever turns up as the GoP Redeemer better start showing us some mojo within the next year or so...it will not be Jindal...I with Duncan Hunter were more...ah...dynamic

139 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:25pm

re: #128 SlartyBartfast

I'll look for anyone that isn't a lawyer.
Shouldn't there be a conflict of interest with lawyers doing legislation?

140 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:31pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Excuse me, but what is conservative about pushing religious beliefs into public school science classrooms?

141 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:38pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

I'm not feeling too confident about the mid terms in 2010 but I think Conservatives CAN make some gains, but a lot depends on who starts to lead the Republicans about that same time. From a Presidential candidate standpoint, I think the following tickets could really rally the base:

Duncan Hunter/Jindahl

Mitt Romney/Palin

The problem with Republican's is they are not showing good leadership and have not fought the Democrats for the lies that Bush and McCain caused the financial crises instead of the facts that the Democrats under Clinton passed the laws that set up Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae for activity that would be considered criminal by most Americans. It is time to clean house and the Republicans are not up to the task. Half of our leaders in government are crooks and do not have Americans interest at heart.

142 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:50pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.

And by the way, what the fuck do you mean by "who claim to be conservatives?"

Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative.

You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

143 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:51pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.
Playing right into the hands of the MSM every time we artificially magnify the scope of the Religious Right.
Oh well, eventually reality will settle in on both the "pro's" and the "anti's" and people can begin discussing things that really matter.

Ignorance is not a winning strategy.

144 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:52pm

And I did put an Iowahawk 'I am Joe The Plumber' sticker on my Dodge Ram in the weeks before the election.

Did get a lot of positive nods from peeps on the road. One guy in a van passed my once going north on 15 in central PA and on the back of his van was a JTP bumper sticker so I gave him a wave and I saw him give me a thumbs up ahead of me. Made me smile.

145 ornery elephant  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:56pm

re: #131 yah

I'm not sure if Jindal will be ready by 2012 even for the VP role but I think Hunter would do well with a younger VP - Jindal is going to be judged on how he handles Louisiana but he's certainly a huge rising star.

Another guy I like is Jim DeMint but I'm not sure if he would even be interested in moving up.

146 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:01pm

re: #118 taxfreekiller

Yes, I hope all these current politicians go to the bottom.
Wait, they are the bottom. Geez, and we let these people run this country and control much of our life.

147 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:24pm

I would love to see a candidate come up from the House myself

148 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:26pm

re: #137 Sleepyone

I'm not so confident that Romney could have beaten Obama but I sure wish he was president-elect right now.

PIMF

149 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:33pm

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

150 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:26:05pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

As much as I loved Rudy's policies he could not have won a general election. He had too many skeletons in his closet; Ex wives, affairs and his bestest friend is a Catholic priest involved in molesting children. He also didn't pass the purity tests on social conservatism. I love the guy but he just isn't going to make it.

151 Paul  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:26:26pm

Well, McCain appalled me too, but Obama flat out terrified me. And we're stuck with him for four freakin' years....unless he's stepped into some deep Blagojevich poop.

Right now, our best hope are the next Congressional elections.

152 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:26:50pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Sad, but I guess true =/

153 LGoPs  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:04pm

I think the Republicans need to understand a few basics:
1) Understand that they're operating in Injun' country, every day, all the time. They have no friends in the media and everything they do will be looked at under a microscope.
2) They need to close ranks and try to speak with one voice as much as possible. The media will try mightily to diffuse their message so this is especially important.
3) They need to pick a few simple messages and hammer them home. The average citizen doesn't have the bandwidth or the attention span to follow esoteric, nuanced policy discussions. Keep it simple stoopid - KISS.
4) Focus those messages and their supporting arguments on the basic common sense that underlies most conservative principles. I can't believe all of the American people have lost their common sense. It's just been obfuscated by the liberals and the media.
5) Figure out a way to tailor those thoughts into bumper sticker size pieces so the message can be hammered home.

154 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:13pm

re: #137 Sleepyone

I'm not sure anyone could have beaten Obama with all the advantages he had. But McCain's unilateral surrender on the fund-raising front surely helped Obama to win.

155 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:13pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

As much as I loved Rudy's policies he could not have won a general election. He had too many skeletons in his closet; Ex wives, affairs and his bestest friend is a Catholic priest involved in molesting children. He also didn't pass the purity tests on social conservatism. I love the guy but he just isn't going to make it.

Then how come the Republicans can't promote their morally suspected candidates as well as the Democrats?

We have to get with the program.
/

156 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:35pm
157 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:35pm

re: #140 Sharmuta

Excuse me, but what is conservative about pushing religious beliefs into public school science classrooms?

Don't forget these would be government sponsored religious beliefs. Determined by local school boards (governmental entities).

158 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:43pm

BTW, I probably won't vote for Palin. Nominate her at your own risk.
/I don't bluff.

159 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:01pm

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

I'm trying to figure out how a philosophy of smaller government (you know- conservatism) means we push religion in science classes.

160 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:18pm

re: #16 lawhawk

You weren't wrong, and Joe Wurzelbacher certainly wasn't alone in thinking that McCain wasn't up to the task of leading the GOP to win (if it was possible at all).

When McCain clinched the nomination, Ann Coulter said Hillary would be a 4-year disaster, but McCain would be a 20-year disaster for the GOP.

161 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:28pm

Well, Americans voted in a guy with politics and style. Who in the GOP has politics and style? That seems to be what wins elections. Pretty soon we'll just flip coins. After all, One World Government is only a century or so off. By then, no voting will matter very much.

162 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:34pm

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

And by the way, what the fuck do you mean by "who claim to be conservatives?"

Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative.

You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

Walter -- always making me smile! (in a good way)

163 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:53pm

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

Then how come the Republicans can't promote their morally suspected candidates as well as the Democrats?

We have to get with the program.
/

exactly...quit taking the MSN (my dire enemy) for granted and pound them with facts and integrity...

164 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:57pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

I doubt very seriously that it will come down to your vote, no matter who you vote for.

165 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:58pm

re: #159 Sharmuta

I'm trying to figure out how a philosophy of smaller government (you know- conservatism) means we push religion in science classes.

Charles said...

re: #149 Charles

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

I suspect he is also a troll, since he can't seem to answer questions put to him.

166 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:29:15pm
167 avspatti  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:29:25pm

About Jindal . . . what other negatives does he have than the ID issue? How is that different from Romney's Mormon problem? There will always be negatives, right. Just look who we have now.

168 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:29:45pm

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

Then how come the Republicans can't promote their morally suspected candidates as well as the Democrats?


Because the MSM won't cover for Republicans. It's silly to expect them to. Also the Republican farm team is very weak; Huckabee, Jindal and Palin? That's just plain insanity.

169 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:05pm

re: #154 Iron Fist

I'm not sure anyone could have beaten Obama with all the advantages he had. But McCain's unilateral surrender on the fund-raising front surely helped Obama to win.

I fear you are correct on both counts. Once Obama had the momentum it was all McCain could do to choke on the dust (not entirely his fault I think).

170 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:10pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

Call it whatever you like.
I'm a lifelong Republican, a Catholic, a veteran, a resident of both MA and NC and I have NEVER heard Creationism addressed at any of the hundreds of meetings those affiliations inevitably entail. It's an Internet issue only. Parsing Jindal, etc. is as pointless as the anti-Rev. Wright silliness.
If you think you know Jindal's views, and don't like them, then vote against him. But if you honestly believe that Jindal doesn't know that petroleum was created by organic residue left behind hundreds of millions of years ago, then you have a major disconnect in your faith/reason switching area.

171 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:35pm

re: #164 Iron Fist

Agreed, my vote is pretty much worthless. I'll waste it as I see fit.

172 tgibson1962  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:36pm

The last time I voted "for" a Repub was Reagan in 1984. Otherwise, it was the lesser of two evils.

173 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:42pm
The flaws and weaknesses of democratic government are easy to see. They can be demonstrated by obvious facts, while the salutary influence of democratic government is exerted in an imperceptible, not to say occult manner. Its defects are striking at first glance but its virtues reveal themselves only over the long run.

Like a kid in a candy store with copy of de Tocqueville...

174 Alouette  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:54pm
175 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:55pm

re: #119 bellamags

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

Haar! Evening Bella, how are you doing mate? I believe the FBI is under the department of justice and the AG. I personally know that the rank and file FBI agents hate political corruption more than anything and are constantly looking for it when they investigate other crimes. They catch a perp and the first thing they try to do is find out if has any political friends that they can get them to inform on for a lesser or dropped charges...

176 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:58pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

It's an Internet issue only.

Ever heard of Louisiana?

177 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:16pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Because the MSM won't cover for Republicans. It's silly to expect them to. Also the Republican farm team is very weak; Huckabee, Jindal and Palin? That's just plain insanity.

I would argue the democrat's bench is likewise weak if 0bama can do nothing but pick clintonites to his cabinet.

178 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:19pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

Agreed, my vote is pretty much worthless. I'll waste it as I see fit.

ha!...good one you old patriot

179 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:30pm

re: #107 Lincolntf

I just scrolled up a bit.
Romney was my Governor in MA. He was the last man standing after the one-Party cesspool hit critical mass. He left the State, wisely, and MA has been circling the bowl ever since. Romney is (in my jaded and oft disillusioned view, I'm no naif) an honest, hard-working, demonstrably competent politician. Such people are rare.

Good Evening, everyone.
AS a resident of Massachusetts, I wholeheartedly agree with Lincolntf. With one itty bitty exception that scares me... the mandatory health insurance legislation Governor Romney signed. It forces every citizen of the state to purchase insurance, or face nasty monthly fines. Understand that he was only one of a small handful of republicans holding elected office in this state, under 20. I don't know why he did not stand firmly against that one.

180 Opinionated  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:47pm

What am I missing?

Joe was appalled.

Maybe he can clue us in on what so appalled him. If it's there I don't see it anywhere.

Are we to damn McCain just because Joe says he was appalled.

Paulson presented the bailout to Congress as the only preventative action to stop the complete meltdown of the financial system. Did Paulson lie? Maybe.

But I can't blame any politician who voted in a way they were led to believe was immediately critical for the economy to survive another day.

181 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:47pm
182 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:45pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Because the MSM won't cover for Republicans. It's silly to expect them to. Also the Republican farm team is very weak; Huckabee, Jindal and Palin? That's just plain insanity.

Huckabee is actually in the lead according to some polls.

If he's the GOP nominee in 2012, the Democrats will be on Easy Street.

183 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:46pm

If anyone lacks the ability to read, have a reading buddy help you.
I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

184 SFGoth  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:49pm

Can someone say whether states can force parties to allow cross-over primary voting? If not, no one but the GOP to blame for McCain.

185 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:53pm

re: #149 Charles

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

Did not know that.

186 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:13pm

re: #177 Sharmuta

I would argue the democrat's bench is likewise weak if 0bama can do nothing but pick clintonites to his cabinet.

I think that's a weakness on O'bama's part...there are probably many Dems qualified for cabinet posts. BHO hasn't been in Washington long enough to learn their names.

187 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:25pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

BTW, I probably won't vote for Palin. Nominate her at your own risk.
/I don't bluff.

You didn't vote last time either so.....

188 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:37pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

My only issue with you is...

What the fuck do you mean by "who claim to be conservatives?" Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative. You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

Answer me that!

189 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:39pm

re: #153 LGoPs
I nominate LGoPs 2012 Presidential Campaign Manager.

190 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:53pm

In my mind Sarah Palin was the only candidate to talk straight to the American people; I recall her upbraiding ordinary Americans about the financial crisis, saying that many of us had not made prudent decisions.

I hope with all my heart she is the next president.

191 solomonpanting  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:34:32pm

And lost in the shuffle, at least for the article's writer:

Asked why he didn’t leave McCain’s campaign if he was “appalled” by the candidate, Wurzelbacher said, “honestly, because the thought of Barack Obama as president scares me even more.”

192 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:34:39pm

re: #186 SlartyBartfast

I think that's a weakness on O'bama's part...there are probably many Dems qualified for cabinet posts. BHO hasn't been in Washington long enough to learn their names.

Touché.

193 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:34:50pm

re: #169 Sleepyone

I fear you are correct on both counts. Once Obama had the momentum it was all McCain could do to choke on the dust (not entirely his fault I think).

Disagree, the election was close by all rights Obama should have been 30 points ahead. It came down to a few million votes.

Had McCain been agressive on things like Wright and pushing hard against the bailout and laying blame where it belonged, and unleashing Palin who knows...

McCain in many ways is to blame for Obama winning. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like him to begin with.

194 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:06pm

My vote is simple for the foreseeable future. I will not ever vote democrat again after what they did to our troops during the Iraq war.

195 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:08pm
196 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:09pm

re: #179 CapeCoddah

Doing something to keep the moonbats from doing something worse? Dunno. Just guessing and I've seen legislation like that happen before.

197 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:10pm

re: #182 Charles

Huckabee is actually in the lead according to some polls.

If he's the GOP nominee in 2012, the Democrats will be on Easy Street.

Wow. I hadn't heard that. Good grief! We (Republicans) are doomed.

For some reason that man irritates the hell out of me. I can't put my finger on why but he seems so disingenuous to me.

198 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:15pm

re: #190 Ojoe

In my mind Sarah Palin was the only candidate to talk straight to the American people; I recall her upbraiding ordinary Americans about the financial crisis, saying that many of us had not made prudent decisions.

I hope with all my heart she is the next president.

we could do worse...she has four years to build up her rep

199 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:18pm

It was the lesser of two weevils. Given the current circumstances of EVERYTHING, it's hard to tell who the real loser was.

200 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:28pm

re: #183 Lincolntf

If anyone lacks the ability to read, have a reading buddy help you.
I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

201 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:18pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Re: "who claim to be conservatives", I say to Lincolntf; "Down with labels", except for maybe "Human".

202 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:29pm

re: #183 Lincolntf

If anyone lacks the ability to read, have a reading buddy help you.
I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

Hey buddy, personally I think you're crazy. Do you want use to pull up all your "creationist" positive posts.

You're all over the board with your posts and opinions. Either you are sitting at you computer in different stages of drunk or you have some sort of problem remembering what you say one day to the other.

203 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:29pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

But if you honestly believe that Jindal doesn't know that petroleum was created by organic residue left behind hundreds of millions of years ago, then you have a major disconnect in your faith/reason switching area.

I said the same thing about Sarah Palin. It's hard to be the governor of an oil-producing state -- Alaska and Louisiana included -- and disbelieve that petroleum is a fossil fuel of provenance from organisms that died millions of years before Young Earth Creationists date Earth's beginning.

204 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:41pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

Call it whatever you like.
I'm a lifelong Republican, a Catholic, a veteran, a resident of both MA and NC and I have NEVER heard Creationism addressed at any of the hundreds of meetings those affiliations inevitably entail. It's an Internet issue only. Parsing Jindal, etc. is as pointless as the anti-Rev. Wright silliness.
If you think you know Jindal's views, and don't like them, then vote against him. But if you honestly believe that Jindal doesn't know that petroleum was created by organic residue left behind hundreds of millions of years ago, then you have a major disconnect in your faith/reason switching area.

Jindal signed into a law a bill that will allow the ID / creationist agenda to flourish in Louisiana schools.

The one I've linked to is a duplicate of the one signed.

205 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:05pm

re: #175 LoFlyer

Haar! Evening Bella, how are you doing mate? I believe the FBI is under the department of justice and the AG. I personally know that the rank and file FBI agents hate political corruption more than anything and are constantly looking for it when they investigate other crimes. They catch a perp and the first thing they try to do is find out if has any political friends that they can get them to inform on for a lesser or dropped charges...

They must hate it, they have been on a tear in Boston for the last few months.
Unfortunately, they would just have to throw nets over every elected official in the state to do much good. We need another field office here!

206 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:14pm

re: #194 Noam Sayin'

They also voted as a party against the 13th amendment.

207 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:24pm

re: #190 Ojoe

In my mind Sarah Palin was the only candidate to talk straight to the American people; I recall her upbraiding ordinary Americans about the financial crisis, saying that many of us had not made prudent decisions.

I hope with all my heart she is the next president.

Democrats: "Rights! Rights! Rights! Personal Responsibility? Wha..?"
Republicans: "Yeah, what they said."

208 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:36pm

re: #202 Walter L. Newton

Hey buddy, personally I think you're crazy. Do you want use to pull up all your "creationist" positive posts.

You're all over the board with your posts and opinions. Either you are sitting at you computer in different stages of drunk or you have some sort of problem remembering what you say one day to the other.

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

Looks like Charles beat us to it.

209 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:38pm

re: #182 Charles

8 years of Chairman Obama. Wheeee!

210 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:48pm

re: #185 CapeCoddah

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact.

"A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day.
That's such a laugher.

211 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:13pm

re: #180 Opinionated


Are we to damn McCain just because Joe says he was appalled.

I was appalled long before Joe the Plumber ever came along.

212 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:14pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

BTW, I probably won't vote for Palin. Nominate her at your own risk.
/I don't bluff.

What exactly is your problem with Palin?

213 witness  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:33pm

In the immortal words of Howard Beale: "Woe's us, we're in a whole lot of trouble!"

214 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:44pm

re: #193 Harry Tuttle

Disagree, the election was close by all rights Obama should have been 30 points ahead. It came down to a few million votes.

Had McCain been agressive on things like Wright and pushing hard against the bailout and laying blame where it belonged, and unleashing Palin who knows...

McCain in many ways is to blame for Obama winning. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like him to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, McCain is in many (most, probably) ways to blame for losing. But the MSM being in Obama's pocket certainly helped. That along with the voter's uninformed decision-making process.

215 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:00pm

re: #187 Racer X

Nope, I sat out due to two unqualified tickets. I feel I did the right thing and I'll do it again.

216 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:45pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact. "A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day. That's such a laugher.

Keep laughing smart ass, why won't you answer my question...

What the fuck do you mean by "anti-creationist who claim to be conservatives?" Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative. You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

217 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:51pm

re: #196 Van Helsing

Doing something to keep the moonbats from doing something worse? Dunno. Just guessing and I've seen legislation like that happen before.

Where have you seen it? It was the first such legislation made law in any state.

218 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:53pm

I like governors as POTUS candidates. Here's the GOP line-up:

Riley*
Palin
Schwarzenegger*
Rell
Crist
Perdue*
Lingle*
Otter
Daniels
Jindal
Pawlenty
Barbour*
Blunt (retiring)
Heineman
Gibbons
Hoeven
Carcieri*
Sanford*
Rounds*
Perry
Huntsman
Douglas
Fortuno & Camacho (heh)

* term up in 2010 (term limits)

Any of these viable?

219 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:58pm
220 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:15pm

re: #204 reine.de.tout

Jindal signed into a law a bill that will allow the ID / creationist agenda to flourish in Louisiana schools.

The one I've linked to is a duplicate of the one signed.

Here is the one Jindal signed.

221 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:15pm

Did none of you "get" the bear-to-whale reference? Still?
Seriously, read a couple of Darwin's books before you declare yourselves his defenders.

222 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:18pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Why don't you answer Walter's No. 188?

223 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:45pm

re: #175 LoFlyer

Hey there LoFlyer! I just thought the timing of the whole thing was funny. I thought maybe they made their move now before the zero took office to make sure they could act freely without someone mucking it up.

224 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:47pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact. "A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day. That's such a laugher.

You have already contradicted yourself in this single thread. Are you for real?

225 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:48pm

re: #202 Walter L. Newton

Are you still eating M&M's?

226 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:01pm

re: #218 godfrey

I like governors as POTUS candidates. Here's the GOP line-up:

Riley*
Palin
Schwarzenegger*
Rell
Crist
Perdue*
Lingle*
Otter
Daniels
Jindal
Pawlenty
Barbour*
Blunt (retiring)
Heineman
Gibbons
Hoeven
Carcieri*
Sanford*
Rounds*
Perry
Huntsman
Douglas
Fortuno & Camacho (heh)

* term up in 2010 (term limits)

Any of these viable?

Don't know about all of them but Arnold certainly isn't due to his being a naturalized citizen.

227 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:05pm

re: #221 Lincolntf

Did none of you "get" the bear-to-whale reference? Still?
Seriously, read a couple of Darwin's books before you declare yourselves his defenders.

That didn't take long.

228 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:22pm

re: #218 godfrey

Ahnold, born in Austria, can't be POTUS.

"I will pump up Sacramento."

— Early Ahnold campaign promise.

Too much fun.

229 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:34pm

re: #206 Ojoe

They also voted as a party against the 13th amendment.

So, they have a history of being bastard-people...

230 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:43pm

Here's what I said back on the evening of the Michigan primary last January.

I voted for Mitt mostly just to block McCain.

But maybe the most interesting thing about today's election here was on the Democratic side where the rift between her campaign and the African American voter bloc split wide open.

Without the African American vote she is done like a Tyson chicken dinner.

231 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:56pm

re: #206 Ojoe

They also voted as a party against the 13th amendment.

This is what befuddles me - how the party of Slavery, KKK, Jim Crow and all other aspects of segregation became the 'friend' of the Black man.

Seriously, I don't get it and conservatives need to find a way to get the kind of PR that causes public amnesia of crap like Senator Byrd's early life.

232 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:12pm

re: #219 taxfreekiller

1,000 updings.

Peace is maintained by strength not idealism.

233 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:15pm

re: #224 Walter L. Newton

You have already contradicted yourself in this single thread. Are you for real?

Internet posters never lie.

234 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:54pm

re: #229 Noam Sayin'

Yes they have.

Look up "Copperhead".

235 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:56pm

Sharmuta, you still here?

236 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:00pm

re: #231 Van Helsing

This is what befuddles me - how the party of Slavery, KKK, Jim Crow and all other aspects of segregation became the 'friend' of the Black man.

Seriously, I don't get it and conservatives need to find a way to get the kind of PR that causes public amnesia of crap like Senator Byrd's early life.

This has long puzzled me as well. Republicans play too nice in my opinion. They're so worried that someone won't like them.

237 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:05pm

re: #235 A Kiwi Infidel

Yes

238 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:09pm
239 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:18pm

BBL

240 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:47pm

re: #214 Sleepyone

Don't get me wrong, McCain is in many (most, probably) ways to blame for losing. But the MSM being in Obama's pocket certainly helped. That along with the voter's uninformed decision-making process.

Very very true.

Most of the people I talked with that were Obama supporters also get their news from the Daily show or Katie Couric.

Actually McCain aside the Obama win was really just anti-bush.

I intend to take vacation time to volunteer for the Palin campaign.

That is is I still have a job.

241 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:59pm

Would you meet me in the lounge, I have a request of you? I will go there now, and wait a couple of minutes.

Ta

242 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:44:06pm

re: #212 Neo Con since 9-11

Right now the biggest problem is her inexperience. After that she supports banning gay civil rights in the Constitution. I wouldn't support constitutional racism or antisemitism and I see no reason to support the same policies against gays. I also suspect that she's not very smart. If she writes a brilliant tome on her governmental or economic philosophies maybe I'll change my mind but until them I still see her as a dimwit. Republicans might be inticed by her simple redneck charm but I'm uderwhelmed.

243 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:44:10pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact.

"A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day.
That's such a laugher.

Charles, from what I have seen, does not pick random folks to attach that particular label to. I have never seen Charles post anything false of fraudulent. Quite the opposite. I have no reason to not believe what he says. I don't know you.

244 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:44:36pm

re: #225 yah

Are you still eating M&M's?

OT

I haven't had any since this past Fri. I actually did the raisin thing while in the control booth at the theatre. That helped. Bulked up on veggies and clear soups this weekend at the supermarket and got some good sales on pre-made salads.

When I was smoking, these kinds of foods satisfied me fine. Now, it seems that the only thing that satisfies me is REAL sugar.

245 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:13pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

246 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:14pm

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

How about quoting one to make your point, Charles. I've just scrolled through the first 200 or so posts and couldn't find one of his comments.

247 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:35pm

re: #236 Sleepyone

This has long puzzled me as well. Republicans play too nice in my opinion. They're so worried that someone won't like them.

I don't... tool! :)

248 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:40pm

re: #190 Ojoe

That will be, to a large degree, up to Obama to decide. He's coming into office at a difficult time (somewhat like Bush, without all the undermining bullshit of the outgoing Clinton Administration) There are a number of issues that will all need to be on the front-burner. If Obama can't multitask, and multitask well, he's hosed before he's even started.

If he tries to govern from the far Left, he will similarily be hosed. The country has too many problems going on for him to spend any time giving red meat to his Leftist hoards. Which will, of course, piss his base off. But he's not going to need them for four years. He may be able to piss all over his base, and still hold them in 2012. Maybe.

Of course, if the economy really is as hosed as they are saying it is, Obama will have a very rough road to being elected in 2012.

It is really too soon to begin handicapping the 2012 elections. Obama may overreach the same way Clinton did, and lose the House and Senate again. That will change everything for 2012.

249 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:56pm

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

I did read his comments. What I learned:

1) He is not a capital-C Creationist who believes that God created the heavens and the Earth ab initio in six 24-hour days.

2) He does believe that God was and is a Prime Mover.

3) He does not think that every word that Charles Darwin wrote was factually accurate. Darwin himself wouldn't have claimed such a thing -- only that his theory of evolutionary change through reproductive selection was and is the best explanation for the biological diversity we see around us.

4) He does not see a belief in evolution as proof of the non-existence of God, nor does he see a belief in God as proof in the non-existence of genetic evolution by reproductive selection.

250 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:46:25pm

re: #217 CapeCoddah

Sorry. I wasn't clear. Not legislation dealing with healthcare, but other things. In Arizona there were various attempts to get a weak law regarding illegals and employment passed to pre-empt or supercede the laws passed through our initiative process.

251 kafir lover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:46:25pm

2008 marked the worst choice of presidential candidates in my (and Joe's) lifetime

252 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:46:45pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

Now, it seems that the only thing that satisfies me is REAL sugar.


If you can ween yourself off refined sugar for a week or two go ahead and eat a tangerine. It's fantastic!

253 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:47:36pm

I just don't see social issues as being very important to most voters, other than keeping your base at home on election day.

254 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:47:36pm
255 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:47:38pm

re: #234 Ojoe

Yes they have.

Look up "Copperhead".

Some habits never die, huh?

During the American Civil War (1861-1865), the Copperheads nominally favored the Union and strongly opposed the war, for which they blamed abolitionists, and they demanded immediate peace and resisted draft laws. They wanted Lincoln and the Republicans ousted from power, seeing the president as a tyrant who was destroying American republican values with his despotic and arbitrary actions.

Some Copperheads tried to persuade Union soldiers to desert. They talked of helping Confederate prisoners of war seize their camps and escape. They sometimes met with Confederate agents and took money. The Confederacy encouraged their activities whenever possible.[1] Most Democratic party leaders, however, repelled Confederate advances.

You could almost substitute "al Qaeda" for "Confederate."

256 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:00pm

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

257 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:04pm
Any of these viable?

I don't know much about most of them, but what I heard from Pawlenty was plenty. I'd vote for him v. any Democrat, including McCain.

258 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:20pm

re: #16 lawhawk

Wish I could give you 20 up-dings!

259 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:32pm

re: #249 stuiec

"3) He does not think that every word that Charles Darwin wrote was factually accurate."


Attacking Darwin as a personality and implying that 'evolutionists' support everything that he ever wrote is a hallmark of creationist argument.

260 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:36pm

re: #249 stuiec

We'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not surprised to find you defending his comments.

261 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:38pm

re: #219 taxfreekiller

Ted Turner looked into the camera and said not one word about the millions murdered with hoe's by the commies the Democrats turned loose in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. He is a dead man faking a real man.

Liberal Democrats are weak and cause others to die from their weak policies. Over and Over and Over.

Ted Turner shows a goatse brain.

"And the KGB, I think, was an honorable place to work. And it, it gave people in the former Soviet Union, a communist country, an opportunity to do something important and worthwhile."
262 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:59pm

re: #259 jaunte

Attacking Darwin as a personality and implying that 'evolutionists' support everything that he ever wrote is a hallmark of creationist argument.

Indeed it is.

263 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:03pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

If you can ween yourself off refined sugar for a week or two go ahead and eat a tangerine. It's fantastic!

It's "wean".

Carry on.

264 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:07pm

re: #191 solomonpanting


He articulate very well my own reasons for voting for McCain. Make no mistake, I think McCain would have been a bad President. I just don't think he'd have been as bad for the Country as Obama will be.

Not by a long shot.

265 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:22pm

re: #245 Lincolntf

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

You didn't answer my question, not at all, you said...

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be. Playing right into the hands of the MSM every time we artificially magnify the scope of the Religious Right. Oh well, eventually reality will settle in on both the "pro's" and the "anti's" and people can begin discussing things that really matter.

Now I will ask you again. Just because I am a anti-creationist, why do you say I "claim" to be a conservative. Can't I be both?

266 HoosierHoops  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:47pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

It's been raining all day and night...who knows?
:)

267 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:52pm

re: #24 picaro

Bravo!
*clap* *clap* *clap*

268 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:55pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Thank you, I don't agree with you, but that's the first honest, articulate argument against Palin I've seen. Most are simply "she's an air head" or completely misquote the governor.

269 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:01pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Tangewean?

270 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:09pm

re: #254 taxfreekiller

cRAP,,PPPP

Wind out of the North 25 to 35 mph, 30 F. sleet/rain/snow mix

off to bed, the old cows gonna be in a bad way early morning

screw you Al Gore, 5:00 A.M. in this kind of shit would make it clear to your dumb ass

re: #54 David IV of Georgia

OT
Al Gore News Alert:
It is snowing/sleeting hard in Dallas, Texas right now.
No accumulation, the ground is still 60°F.

Overcast. No Precipitation. 31°F in Dallas (actually Garland) now.

271 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:26pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

almost

272 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:30pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

I stand corrected

273 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:37pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

OT too
My husband was in line behind a woman at Wal Mart the other night. She bought $198.00 worth of M&M's. It made me think of you. Took the cashier forever to ring up.
I thought "Man, she must of had a real smoking problem."

274 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:51pm

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

275 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:20pm

re: #269 jaunte

Tangewean?

fruit pun time?
orange you ready?

276 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:22pm

re: #255 Noam Sayin'

You could almost substitute "al Qaeda" for "Confederate."

You could almost gain my undying enmity.

277 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:35pm

re: #35 bravesoat

I voted for Joe Biden. Obama was tagging along [with the SEIU/FBI/Rev Wright/Freedom Fighter Ayers]

Um... Sarc tag? Please tell me there's a missing sarc tag in your statement!

278 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:39pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

Nope, I sat out due to two unqualified tickets. I feel I did the right thing and I'll do it again.

Self deleted the worst of it, but everytime you post this I remember that cowardly action that you continue to crow about I think you are a smug, fatuous asshole. . .

279 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:44pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

If you can ween yourself off refined sugar for a week or two go ahead and eat a tangerine. It's fantastic!

I don't know if you are up on what I have related in the past weeks, but in short, ever since I quit smoking cold-turkey on Aug. 16th, I have been shoving too much candy (M7M's) into my system and I have probably put on about 10 pounds.

And it seems NOTHING makes me feel full anymore. I could overdose on lettuce if I wanted.

280 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:52:02pm

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

Charles I looked through the thread, and at comment 728 LincolnTF states
"Sadly, I think you're right. If the kind of belittling of Creationists that I see online these days were aimed at any other specific Religious belief, it would be banned as hate-speech.
I say to the "anti-'s", get over it. If you don't agree with the tenets of the faith of other people, that doesn't mean that those people are unworthy or basic respect.
I find it amazing (and disconcerting) how often I see people who claim to be representing the "rational" view of natural selection/evolution who have no clue what they're talking about. Rabid anti-Creationism is a bizarre little pocket dogma that ultimately hinders a rational education.

That said, I don't want anyone teaching Creationism as Science in any schools. I'm as convinced of the fact of "evolution" as I am of the fact of gravity. I'll willingly debate the properties of both with no personal animus, but when someone tries to convince me that billions of years worth of natural history simply didn't occur, then I tend to tune them out."

This doesn't sound "hardcore-creationist" one bit, mate!

281 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:52:38pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

I never claimed "you" were anything. Get over yourself.

282 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:52:53pm

re: #275 bellamags

I'll try to apple eye myself.

283 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:13pm

re: #245 Lincolntf

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

It's not his religious views that scare me. It's his willingness to open up Louisiana schools to the Muslim's creation stories.

284 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:25pm

re: #276 David IV of Georgia

You could almost gain my undying enmity.

Now I gotta go look up "enmity."

Oh...

Sorry, dude. Didn't know you were still fighting the war. ;)

285 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:29pm

re: #282 jaunte

I'll try to apple eye myself.

this is gonna be grape.

286 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:31pm

re: #278 DisturbedEma

you are a smug, fatuous asshole. .


Thanks for noticing.

287 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:33pm

re: #30 apachegunner

rancher? rustler?

Real Rancher. Rule of thumb, late night posts are Rustler. I no longer work graveyard, I'm back in the prison. Just made Sergeant BTW. :)

288 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:39pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

It's always a full moon somewhere in the solar system.

289 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:53pm

Riley has said he wants to get out of politics after his term is up.

I hope he reconsiders. He has accomplished a lot.

290 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:57pm

re: #260 Charles

We'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not surprised to find you defending his comments.

That comment puzzles me.

291 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:02pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

Thanks for noticing.

hard to miss. . .you reek of it

292 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:17pm

re: #255 Noam Sayin'

You could almost substitute "al Qaeda" for "Confederate."

I'm not supporting slavery in the Confederacy in any way shape or form, but over the years I'm developing a much greater understanding of why they chafed under the Federal gubmint. As now, there was a great deal that could be seen as usurping State's rights.

I'm NOT saying it's right, just that there were legitimate legal grievances regarding the limits of Federal power.

If they could just see the s**t we have now...

293 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:20pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Right now the biggest problem is her inexperience. After that she supports banning gay civil rights in the Constitution. I wouldn't support constitutional racism or antisemitism and I see no reason to support the same policies against gays. I also suspect that she's not very smart. If she writes a brilliant tome on her governmental or economic philosophies maybe I'll change my mind but until them I still see her as a dimwit. Republicans might be inticed by her simple redneck charm but I'm uderwhelmed.

I think the country could use a little plain common sense. Most of this shit isn't difficult, if you want to do the right thing that is.

294 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:22pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

Strawman again. Look, we are talking about evolution, not the "origins of the universe." Creationist love to try to confuse that issue, anything to make science look like it has holes.

Do you really think we are stupid enough to miss your little trick?

295 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:55pm

re: #223 bellamags

Hey there LoFlyer! I just thought the timing of the whole thing was funny. I thought maybe they made their move now before the zero took office to make sure they could act freely without someone mucking it up.

Haar mate, I think you have it nailed 100 percent. Just like the Israeli's have to hit Iran nuclear production now before Obama get's in office!

296 HoosierHoops  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:59pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

Well that explains it...
I went to Catholic school..not that I liked it..
You wouldn't have made it out of my 7th grade science class...You flunk pal..
And you are a teacher? I'm Bill Clinton..Don't tell Hilary I'm here

297 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:02pm

re: #273 yah

OT too
My husband was in line behind a woman at Wal Mart the other night. She bought $198.00 worth of M&M's. It made me think of you. Took the cashier forever to ring up. I thought "Man, she must of had a real smoking problem."

I want to marry her.

298 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:05pm

re: #283 MandyManners

Exactly!

299 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:10pm

re: #277 poopeedoo

Um... Sarc tag? Please tell me there's a missing sarc tag in your statement!

oh my goodness. . .why NOT. . .

300 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:16pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

There is a moon? I can't see it. It cannot be.

Must be because of all the snow.

301 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:23pm

re: #245 Lincolntf

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

He is a politician. You see what he wants you to see. If Jindal were my next door neighbor, who went to the post office to work every day, I would not care a whit about his religious beliefs either. BUT, when he is the governor of a state, and signs a law into being which allows creationism to be taught in a science classroom, I damned well do care. Not only does he force that farce on the children of his own state, but sets a dangerous precedent for everyones children to have to be poisoned with this. School is to arm our children with the tools needed to survive reality. Keep the theology and philosophy where it belongs, the most critical place to keep free of creationism is the science classroom. Religion is a private family/personal matter. Period

302 jorline  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:35pm

re: #136 Lincolntf

Joe was approached in his own backyard by a roving campaign appearance featuring the President-elect. He's hardly a limelight hog. People asked for his opinion, and continue to, so he gives it to them. Good for him.

You're correct, he was approached by Obama, but this doesn't have anything to do with Joe's original question and subsequent popularity from the Obama question. If he didn't like McCain he should have removed himself from the campaign trail. His question to Obama was reveling, but that's where my interest in Joe ended.
IMHO McCain was grasping at straws adding Joe to his campaign. The MSM and the people didn't push Joe...he volunteered.

303 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:35pm

re: #221 Lincolntf

Whales didn't come from bears we get it, and since Darwin's time they've found that more likely they were land herbivores. Do you disagree? If so, then what is your theory, do you have proof?

304 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:39pm

re: #290 stuiec

That comment puzzles me.

I posted it because it because I've noticed that you're sympathetic to creationist arguments. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

305 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:42pm

re: #92 Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

I enjoyed his speech at the convention.

306 2-Drink Minimum  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:53pm

A nation of 300+million now and we are forced into choosing between two candidates (yeah, there were others on the ballot but c'mon.) Until we realize that a two party system only benefits the elite of those two parties we are destined to be run by idiots (meet the new boss, same as the old boss.) Hey folks, Europe laughs at us and they are the ones that do matter and who really did populate this country with veracity! Now, excuse me while I have another macallan.

307 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:55pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

I want to marry her.

LOL. that was great.

308 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:56pm

re: #288 Charles

It's always a full moon somewhere in the solar system.

You're probably one of these Christian-haters who believes the Earth revolves around the Sun, aren't you?

309 solomonpanting  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:04pm

re: #264 Iron Fist

He articulate very well my own reasons for voting for McCain. Make no mistake, I think McCain would have been a bad President. I just don't think he'd have been as bad for the Country as Obama will be.

Not by a long shot.

Yes, yes. The point I'd like to make is that the media continues to shill for Obama after the election. The writer's intent was to show Joe's disgust with McCain, when in fact, Joe was even more appalled, scared, fearful of Obama.

310 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:19pm

re: #281 Lincolntf

I never claimed "you" were anything. Get over yourself.

Read the post you wrote.

311 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:49pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History?

I don't know. What do you mean by "making a living in Natural History." You sell books at a museum or something?

Instead of being vague, why don't you tell us some of your qualifications?

312 anti-looter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:55pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

The Republican party needs to resolve the issue of so-cons or there won't be a party. The current so-con 'absolutist - thou shall not' thing isn't selling, they need to forge their own alliance.

This country needs a party, candidates and options that address the middle 65% - 75% of the population.

313 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:22pm

re: #283 MandyManners

It's not his religious views that scare me. It's his willingness to open up Louisiana schools to the Muslim's creation stories.

Is that is what is at the root of all this creation v. evolution debate? That it is a muslim thing?

I believe God created all things. That's MY belief. I'm sticking to it. Everyone else can believe whatever they want.

314 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:22pm

re: #182 Charles

Huckabee is actually in the lead according to some polls.

If he's the GOP nominee in 2012, the Democrats will be on Easy Street.

If Huckabee wants a majority, he'll need to stop bad-mouthing his republican peers.

315 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:28pm

re: #280 LoFlyer

Thanks for actually reading the posts. So many people grab a phrase or a putative position assigned by someone else and decide that it defines a person. I'm no Creationist, but I'm also sick of saying that I'm not a Creationist. If people can't understand plain English and basic context, then what the hell are they doing reading/writing in public?

I know this topic is a pet of this site, so I try to skip the daily Creationism screeds, but it's hard to butt out all the time.

316 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:34pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

No offense dude, but, what the hell are you talking about?

317 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:35pm

re: #250 Van Helsing

Sorry. I wasn't clear. Not legislation dealing with healthcare, but other things. In Arizona there were various attempts to get a weak law regarding illegals and employment passed to pre-empt or supercede the laws passed through our initiative process.

Ah, got it!

318 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:56pm

Please note that it's a big mistake to assume that people's statements about their professions or experience are true, especially when it comes to creationists -- who have demonstrated repeatedly that they have no compunctions about lying to promote the cause.

319 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:58:07pm

re: #293 Harry Tuttle

I think the country could use a little plain common sense. Most of this shit isn't difficult, if you want to do the right thing that is.

I love how parroting the "she's not that smart" mantra makes it true. . .we have her scores, we have her transcripts, right?

She held offices that allowed her performance as a civil servant to be measured. . .we got jack shit from dear leader. . .uhh uhh uhh. . and we still have no idea what HIS transcripts look like. . .Present got him president. . .

320 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:58:21pm

re: #273 yah

OT too
My husband was in line behind a woman at Wal Mart the other night. She bought $198.00 worth of M&M's. It made me think of you. Took the cashier forever to ring up.
I thought "Man, she must of had a real smoking problem."

Maybe she didn't realize you can go to the M&M website and order the color of your choice!

321 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:58:39pm

re: #310 MandyManners

Read the post you wrote.

He has, and realized he can't get out of the simple words he wrote, so he is now going to try to suggest that we are stupid and misunderstand him.

Asshole.

322 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:01pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

Strawman again. Look, we are talking about evolution, not the "origins of the universe." Creationist love to try to confuse that issue, anything to make science look like it has holes.

Do you really think we are stupid enough to miss your little trick?

Go on without me. . .you lost me at the whale. . .

323 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:08pm

re: #284 Noam Sayin'

Now I gotta go look up "enmity."

Oh...

Sorry, dude. Didn't know you were still fighting the war. ;)

You're not a Southerner, are you? I'm not sure the South ever surrendered no matter what pieces of paper, windy speeches and preponderance of evidence may say to the contrary.

One thing we did wrong and paid the price for it—we should have freed the slaves during the war.

324 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:12pm

re: #149 Charles

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

I haven't been around much lately and haven't followed these threads, but a search of Lincolntf's posts on the previous thread you link to below produces the following quotations from him/her:

I don't want anyone teaching Creationism as Science in any schools. I'm as convinced of the fact of "evolution" as I am of the fact of gravity.

Again, I don't believe in Creationism...

Creationism is a dead-end street, and nobody who campaigns on such a notion will ever make it anywhere nationally.

Believe me, in the end, the Creationists will be proven short-sighted...

These are the words of a "hardcore creationist"?

They also seem consistent with what he/she says on this thread:

I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

These don't sound like the words of a "hardcore creationist," unless by that you mean someone who believes that material reality came from nothing (a quantum fluctuation being 'something'). If that belief makes you a "hardcore creationist," then you've redefined the term so broadly as to include theists of every known (or possible) stripe.

325 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:44pm

re: #318 Charles

Please note that it's a big mistake to assume that people's statements about their professions or experience are true,

We used to have to deal with that stuff all the time back when I was a Navy SEAL. Just before I won my Nobel physics prize.

326 mandolin[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:01pm
327 Opinionated  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:08pm

re: #312 anti-looter

The Republican party needs to resolve the issue of so-cons or there won't be a party. The current so-con 'absolutist - thou shall not' thing isn't selling, they need to forge their own alliance.

This country needs a party, candidates and options that address the middle 65% - 75% of the population.

That party will have to be born as a legitimate and potent third party possibility.

The absolutists will continue to damage the Republican brand while the Left will make the Democrats unpalatable to normal people.

328 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:19pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

No, you're turning the "origins of all being" into a Straw Man. I know that it makes not a whit of difference in my political life. Which is why the faster the topic is dismissed from otherwise rational discussion, the happier I'll be.

329 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:41pm

re: #292 Van Helsing

Well, clearly I totally missed on that post. I was comparing Civil War Copperheads to modern day anti-war activists - and Democrat politicians.

Mea culpa to David IV of Georgia, as well.

330 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:44pm

re: #306 2-Drink Minimum

A nation of 300+million now and we are forced into choosing between two candidates (yeah, there were others on the ballot but c'mon.) Until we realize that a two party system only benefits the elite of those two parties we are destined to be run by idiots (meet the new boss, same as the old boss.) Hey folks, Europe laughs at us and they are the ones that do matter and who really did populate this country with veracity! Now, excuse me while I have another macallan.

Europe can laugh all they want. They've turned their future over to a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats that rule by repetition - we'll make them keep voting on the same crap until those damn Irish get it right...

In the meantime they just keep cranking out rules and regulations.

331 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:50pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

He has, and realized he can't get out of the simple words he wrote, so he is now going to try to suggest that we are stupid and misunderstand him.

Asshole.

So a whale walks into a bar. . .wait, how is that working. . .shit, why didn't I pay more attention in Hebrew school. . .dammit I should KNOW this. . .whales are. . .

go on without me, I'll be here awhile. . .

332 WriterMom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:07pm

goddddfreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey

333 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:08pm

OK. Well. Where were we? Ah yes de Tocqueville.

The laws of democracy generally tend toward the good of the many, for they emanate from the majority of all citizens, who may be mistaken but cannot be in conflict of interest with themselves.

334 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:32pm

re: #319 DisturbedEma

I love how parroting the "she's not that smart" mantra makes it true. . .we have her scores, we have her transcripts, right?

She held offices that allowed her performance as a civil servant to be measured. . .we got jack shit from dear leader. . .uhh uhh uhh. . and we still have no idea what HIS transcripts look like. . .Present got him president. . .

Agreed and in my opinion inexperience is the biggest plus of them all.

335 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:51pm

re: #313 CommonCents

Is that is what is at the root of all this creation v. evolution debate? That it is a muslim thing?
I believe God created all things. That's MY belief. I'm sticking to it. Everyone else can believe whatever they want.

Nope.

If one school district teaches the Biblical account of creation, it can be forced to teach that in the Koran. I guarantee you that CAIR is watching this issue very closely.

Also, the ID movement is aligned with a Turkish Muslim.

336 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:09pm

Come on Lincoln, you brought up the subject, where do you think whales came from?

337 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:09pm

re: #315 Lincolntf

Thanks for actually reading the posts. So many people grab a phrase or a putative position assigned by someone else and decide that it defines a person. I'm no Creationist, but I'm also sick of saying that I'm not a Creationist. If people can't understand plain English and basic context, then what the hell are they doing reading/writing in public?

I know this topic is a pet of this site, so I try to skip the daily Creationism screeds, but it's hard to butt out all the time.

I generally stay out of the creationism thread but found I was a participant on that one early in the thread on non-creationism items. I gave Mandy a hard time about her debating style, I hope she will still talk to me! Haar!

338 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:11pm

re: #328 Lincolntf

No, you're turning the "origins of all being" into a Straw Man. I know that it makes not a whit of difference in my political life. Which is why the faster the topic is dismissed from otherwise rational discussion, the happier I'll be.

Again, what is it you do for a living that involves you with Natural History? I'm waiting for your answer, and careful on how you reply because there may be a test after you answer.

339 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:13pm

re: #325 Occasional Reader

We used to have to deal with that stuff all the time back when I was a Navy SEAL. Just before I won my Nobel physics prize.

Yeah, just before my Victoria Secret gig, and of course my Playmate of the year. . .after getting my doctorate in biochem. . .

340 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:31pm

{WriterMom}

The only creativity I'm in the mood for is mixing a good drink. It has been a slog these past few weeks.

341 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:40pm

re: #324 godfrey

Looks like he fooled you.

342 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:00pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

He has, and realized he can't get out of the simple words he wrote, so he is now going to try to suggest that we are stupid and misunderstand him.

Asshole.

He doesn't tap-dance very well, does he?

343 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:14pm

re: #311 Walter L. Newton


Instead of being vague, why don't you tell us some of your qualifications?

And risk someone with those actual qualifications to call him out on it? Surely you jest.
/

344 SurferDoc  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:15pm
345 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:17pm

I think that Open Primaries should be illegal. I am convinced that is how we ended up with John McCain. Too much mischief.

346 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:26pm

re: #342 MandyManners

He doesn't tap-dance very well, does he?

Maybe he can rent Happy feet. . .

347 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:09pm

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers. Many Confederate Officers were raised by black nannies.

348 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:12pm

re: #343 Basho

And risk someone with those actual qualifications to call him out on it? Surely you jest.
/

Can I call it the Cognito, pulling a Cog?
pleeeeeze?

349 Opinionated  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:17pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

I wonder how many of those SoCons who branded Giuliani as a "baby killer" and worse would if they could today trade him for for Obama as President-elect.

My guess is not many. Because to them unquestioned fealty to their cause is more important then the actual practical results of governance.

350 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:24pm

re: #331 DisturbedEma

So a whale walks into a bar. . .wait, how is that working. . .shit, why didn't I pay more attention in Hebrew school. . .dammit I should KNOW this. . .whales are. . . go on without me, I'll be here awhile. . .

Ok, but I'm not sure why you have replied to two of my comments with this talk about whales. I never mentioned anything about whales on this thread.

It's ok, I was just being nosey. I'm not even sure what the "whale" part of these comments here are about.

I'm trying to get Linc' just to answer a few simple questions, which he seems incapable of doing.

351 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:29pm

re: #341 Charles

Wouldn't be the first time. Like I said, I'm so sandbagged these days, I can't follow even a short trajectory on the threads. I do wish you all well, though.

352 WriterMom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:31pm

re: #340 godfrey

I was wondering where you were. I hope all is well...good to see you.

353 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:37pm

re: #324 godfrey

Evolution and Origin of Life are two different things.

354 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:38pm

re: #323 David IV of Georgia

Or maybe before the war?

355 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:50pm

C'mon Lincoln -- Whales...

You stated that you aren't a creationist, how did whales evolve, from whence came they? Please hold forth and tell us what you think on it.

356 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:53pm

re: #336 Thanos

Come on Lincoln, you brought up the subject, where do you think whales came from?

Well, first, the daddy whale gets dressed up and goes out to a bar...

357 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:07pm

re: #259 jaunte

Attacking Darwin as a personality and implying that 'evolutionists' support everything that he ever wrote is a hallmark of creationist argument.

I missed the part where he attacked Darwin as a personality, accused Darwin of any sort of nefarious or distasteful conduct or personal attributes, or even said anything whatsoever that disagreed with Darwin's theory of evolution by reproductive selection.

Darwin knew nothing of chromosomes, DNA or genes, or of viruses and retroviruses. There are a number of things we know from modern science that would astound Darwin and cause him to revise and update his work. But he would be pleased to know that he was right about the process of evolution, even if he never knew of the mechanism by which traits are passed between generations.

So how is pointing out that Darwin was wrong in his speculation about one species' evolution somehow denying or attacking the principle of evolution itself?

Maybe I need a program to know who the players are. Is "Creationist" the official term for anyone who believes that God was a Prime Mover at the initiation of the Universe, even if that person believes that initiation happened billions of years in the past? Is "Evolutionist" the official term for anyone who believes that the shaping of the Universe and the life forms within it happened according to natural laws, even including those who believe that God had a hand in crafting those laws? I fall into both categories, so I need to know if I have to hate myself.

358 WriterMom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:17pm

Good night.

359 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:43pm

re: #349 Opinionated

I wonder how many of those SoCons who branded Giuliani as a "baby killer" and worse would if they could today trade him for for Obama as President-elect.

My guess is not many. Because to them unquestioned fealty to their cause is more important then the actual practical results of governance.

I agree. It matters not that Rudy reduced the number of abortions and 0bama lets babies die in sinks.

360 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:48pm

re: #309 solomonpanting

Ah, I scan it now. Yeah it helps to have the entire media establishment as your own, personal, prison bitch. About the only thing we can do to combat that is making our voice heard on the internet and on radio talkshows. Join the NRA, JPFO, Second Amendment Foundation, as much as you can afford. Let your personal Congress critters know how you want them to vote on the issues.

And pray. Pray alot.

361 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:53pm

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

Ok, but I'm not sure why you have replied to two of my comments with this talk about whales. I never mentioned anything about whales on this thread.

It's ok, I was just being nosey. I'm not even sure what the "whale" part of these comments here are about.

I'm trying to get Linc' just to answer a few simple questions, which he seems incapable of doing.

Lincoln made the 'surely you understood the whale. . .connection' to you. . .that comment just struck me as funny. . .whales and creation. . .hmmm

362 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:06:39pm

re: #352 WriterMom

All is well, just a bit complicated, which is fine. I'm finding my way.

363 talon_262  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:06:45pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

Oh really? Well, let's make sure he doesn't change his mind, because while I think he may be a good fit for a future Cabinet position (such as HHS) due to his track record, to have him as the GOP's standard-bearer in '12 would be political suicide.

/if anyone has to ask why Jindal is a Presidential "untouchable" for the GOP at this point, they'll never understand...

364 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:01pm

re: #342 MandyManners

He doesn't tap-dance very well, does he?

No he doesn't. He doesn't even use the "tricks" for non-dancers. I was taught a long time ago, if you are auditioning for a character part in a stage musical, and the dance captain insists that you audition for him/her, and they want to put you through the combinations anyway (even though the part doesn't require any singing or dancing), then what you do is...

Make sure you right foot ends up down on the last beat and smile.

He can't even do that here.

365 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:07pm

re: #335 MandyManners

Nope.

If one school district teaches the Biblical account of creation, it can be forced to teach that in the Koran. I guarantee you that CAIR is watching this issue very closely.

Also, the ID movement is aligned with a Turkish Muslim.

So what it's really about is what is taught in the schools, or is opening the door to be taught. Not what each individual believes. Is that right?

366 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:27pm

re: #356 CapeCoddah

Well, first, the daddy whale gets dressed up and goes out to a bar...

SEE! I did pay attention in Hebrew School. . .a whale DID walk into a bar. . and the rest is evolution

//ducks the debris bombs., . .

367 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:38pm

re: #318 Charles

Please note that it's a big mistake to assume that people's statements about their professions or experience are true, especially when it comes to creationists -- who have demonstrated repeatedly that they have no compunctions about lying to promote the cause.

It is a big mistake to presume anything said on a blog is true unless it can be verified by independent sources. So if I claim to have ten PhDs or be a UN ambassador or to have created Jello™, you would do well to question it unless it is obviously just inane chatter.

368 Aussie Stinger  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:53pm

G'Day Charles,

What's wrong with Bobby Jindal for President? Isn't he a true Conservative?

Outsider here.

369 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:58pm

re: #323 David IV of Georgia

I was in Vicksburg a couple of years ago and took a guided historical tour.
They DO NOT celebrate Independence Day there. Other than after the end of WWII.
That was the day they were forced to surrender to U. S. Grant.

That whole 'war of northern aggression' is still real to more people than one would think.

370 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:00pm

re: #357 stuiec

One of the shortcuts in creationists argumentation is to state that "Darwin was wrong about (fill in the blank)" with the implication that the mistake taints evolutionary biology to this day.

371 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:39pm

Way OT, Stephen Colbert's Christmas album is pretty funny.
It is on mp3.com

372 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:52pm

Well, somehow a gang of lizards have hijacked the Joe the Plumber thread to an ID thread.
Or some might say "evolved."

373 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:58pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers. Many Confederate Officers were raised by black nannies.

Bizarre perspective there.

374 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:09:00pm
375 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:09:20pm

re: #369 Van Helsing

I was in Vicksburg a couple of years ago and took a guided historical tour.
They DO NOT celebrate Independence Day there. Other than after the end of WWII.
That was the day they were forced to surrender to U. S. Grant.

That whole 'war of northern aggression' is still real to more people than one would think.

I saw a tee in Gettysburg. . .stars and bars said 'if this flag offends you, you need a history lesson'

376 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:09:21pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers. Many Confederate Officers were raised by black nannies.

I must say, I see more racism here in Michigan than I ever did in west central Florida. However, the Tampa-St. Pete area has such a diverse population of transplants it's hard to call it "the south".

377 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:00pm

re: #372 yah

Well, somehow a gang of lizards have hijacked the Joe the Plumber thread to an ID thread.
Or some might say "evolved."

snort. . .good one, now about the whales. . .

378 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:03pm

So Lincoln, still waiting here. You state you're not a creationist, so please tell us where whales did come from. [Warning: We will catch you if you crib from DI/AIG/ICR]

379 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:22pm

re: #193 Harry Tuttle

Disagree, the election was close by all rights Obama should have been 30 points ahead. It came down to a few million votes.

Had McCain been agressive on things like Wright and pushing hard against the bailout and laying blame where it belonged, and unleashing Palin who knows...

McCain in many ways is to blame for Obama winning. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like him to begin with.

quoted, just because everyone needs to read that again. McLame lost the race by running like a crack addled fuckwit.

i don't mind him losing, since he deserved to, but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because he's got unresolved issues.

380 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:32pm

re: #370 jaunte

One of the shortcuts in creationists argumentation is to state that "Darwin was wrong about (fill in the blank)" with the implication that the mistake taints evolutionary biology to this day.

It doesn't? I don't even use a telephone to this day because some guy (can't remember his name) in the 1860's said the idea would never work.

381 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:32pm

re: #329 Noam Sayin'

Well, clearly I totally missed on that post. I was comparing Civil War Copperheads to modern day anti-war activists - and Democrat politicians.

Mea culpa to David IV of Georgia, as well.

I probably saw a wider brush stroke than you intended Noam.

382 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:47pm

re: #323 David IV of Georgia

Freed the slaves and then fired on Fort Sumpter. It would have completely changed the moral calculus when third parties were debating supporting the Confederacy.

Would that have been better or worse for the Nation? I don't think we can really determine with certainty what would have happened if the South won.

383 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #378 Thanos

So Lincoln, still waiting here. You state you're not a creationist, so please tell us where whales did come from. [Warning: We will catch you if you crib from DI/AIG/ICR]

Whales about his opinion and bails. . .Ahab to say he is gone. . .

384 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:07pm

re: #368 Aussie Stinger

Bobby Jindal is very conservative. Charles doesn't like Jindal's religious views.

385 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:19pm

re: #374 Racer X

Homework Fail

Failblog keeps me sane.

386 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:31pm

re: #379 redc1c4

quoted, just because everyone needs to read that again. McLame lost the race by running like a crack addled fuckwit.

i don't mind him losing, since he deserved to, but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because he's got unresolved issues.

sad but that crack addled fuckwit looked better to me than my party's choice. . .

387 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:38pm

re: #372 yah

Well, somehow a gang of lizards have hijacked the Joe the Plumber thread to an ID thread. Or some might say "evolved."

The thread was created from a Joe the Plumber thread to an evolution thread.

388 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:49pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

No he doesn't. He doesn't even use the "tricks" for non-dancers. I was taught a long time ago, if you are auditioning for a character part in a stage musical, and the dance captain insists that you audition for him/her, and they want to put you through the combinations anyway (even though the part doesn't require any singing or dancing), then what you do is...

Make sure you right foot ends up down on the last beat and smile.

He can't even do that here.

He probably claps on 3.

389 Haverwilde  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:54pm

re: #288 Charles

Okay, I will be the smart-ass dork. You are usually right, except at the time of the lunar eclipse. /smartass

390 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:01pm

re: #380 Walter L. Newton

HAVE RCVD YOUR TELEGRM. MUST PONDER. J.

391 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:08pm

re: #365 CommonCents

So what it's really about is what is taught in the schools, or is opening the door to be taught. Not what each individual believes. Is that right?

That's it to me.

392 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:20pm

Anybody know anything about Khaled Fouad Allam? Is he a better alternative to Tariq Ramadan?

393 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:41pm

re: #318 Charles

My wife would say that I'm "trying to make a living" in Natural History, and she'd be mostly right. My "real" career is Construction Mgmt.
Either way, I don't lie in my posts or in my real life. I find it morally repugnant and ultimately counter-productive.

394 2-Drink Minimum  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:45pm

re: #330 Van Helsing

There are pockets of hope there. And I dig the cohabitational governments -- having more factions to stir the pot or mix it up is a benefit. I dig the Irish esp at St James's Gate!

395 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:52pm

re: #381 Van Helsing

I have a habit of presuming people think like me and track with me on my thoughts, which is seldom the case, noam sayin?'

396 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:54pm

re: #384 mandolin

Bobby Jindal is very conservative. Charles doesn't like Jindal's religious views.

but do moral positions HAVE to be religious in nature? Can't they be people behaving wonderfully because as the oatmeal commercial used to say it 'is the right thing to do and a good way to do it'?

397 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:00pm
398 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:10pm

re: #384 mandolin

Bobby Jindal is very conservative. Charles doesn't like Jindal's religious views.

Do they stand in line waiting to be whacked? Linc' out, Mandy in. It's like tag team wrestling. Same intelligence level too.

399 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:31pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers.

If you leave out the whole "enslaving them" bit.

400 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:35pm

re: #397 buzzsawmonkey

Looks like I've been fouad'd again!

401 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:43pm

re: #336 Thanos

You want the Darwin or the Gould or my own opinion?

402 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:01pm

re: #320 poopeedoo

Maybe she didn't realize you can go to the M&M website and order the color of your choice!

And had them delivered - must have been at least 100 pounds of candy. Maybe she had a real bad case of munchies and just could't wait.

403 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:37pm

re: #396 DisturbedEma

but do moral positions HAVE to be religious in nature? Can't they be people behaving wonderfully because as the oatmeal commercial used to say it 'is the right thing to do and a good way to do it'?

pass the granola. . .I have to weave me some snow boots. . .macrame. . .

404 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:46pm

re: #369 Van Helsing


I had a great aunt when I was very young that called it the War of Northern Agression. She was born during Reconstruction. She also referred to me as "master" and my sister as "Missy".

She died when I was very young.

405 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:57pm

re: #401 Lincolntf

You want the Darwin or the Gould or my own opinion?

I want you to answer Walter's question about calling us "so-called conservatives".

406 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:15:04pm

re: #400 godfrey

Looks like I've been fouad'd again!

Fouad'd ya twice? Shame on ya!

407 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:15:27pm

re: #395 Noam Sayin'

I have a habit of presuming people think like me and track with me on my thoughts, which is seldom the case, noam sayin?'

You too?

408 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:15:53pm

re: #407 Van Helsing

You too?

yeah, I get that a lot. . .

409 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:01pm

Wow- construction management equals natural history. Who knew?

410 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:07pm

re: #406 DisturbedEma

It's allam'ing, I tell ya.

411 Boogberg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:14pm

re: #288 Charles

It's always a full moon somewhere in the solar system.

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

412 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:18pm

If you all are wondering why I'm pressing Lincoln on the Whale question it's because he stated he wasn't a creationist, but I think he really is. He's an old earth creationist. Those are creationists who have given up on the 6000 yr old Earth, but believe that G-d individually hand crafted each species in order as it appeared. So his statement about "not being a creationist" coupled with his arguing against evolution probably places him in the Old earth creationist camp, just trying to get his taxonomy down here .

413 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:19pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

Wow- construction management equals natural history. Who knew?

creation by any other name. . .

414 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:45pm

re: #401 Lincolntf

Don't be coy, I asked for what you think.

415 lifeofthemind  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:11pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

As much as I loved Rudy's policies he could not have won a general election. He had too many skeletons in his closet; Ex wives, affairs and his bestest friend is a Catholic priest involved in molesting children. He also didn't pass the purity tests on social conservatism. I love the guy but he just isn't going to make it.

Exactly right, I like Rudy but I've heard from Cops and other LEOs about Bernie Kerik to know that if he was the nominee the same MSM that covers for BHO would crucify Rudy.

416 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:26pm

re: #410 godfrey

It's allam'ing, I tell ya.

Fatwa it's worth, I like ya. . .

417 Peter Verkooijen  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:30pm

Joe Wurzelbacher 2012

418 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:42pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

Wow- construction management equals natural history. Who knew?

My hubby is in construction management. He knocks down and digs up a lot of natural history with his CAT's

419 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:47pm

re: #393 Lincolntf

My wife would say that I'm "trying to make a living" in Natural History, and she'd be mostly right. My "real" career is Construction Mgmt.

Either way, I don't lie in my posts or in my real life. I find it morally repugnant and ultimately counter-productive.

Are you drinking? You said "How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History?" refering to YOURSELF.

Now, which is it, do you make a living in Natural History (I don't even know what that phrase would mean) or are you trying to make a living in Natural History.

And no matter which lie you want to repeat, what do you mean by "living in Natural History."

(Gosh, I'm actually asking him to lie further just to get him to explain his lies)

420 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:47pm

Hmm, not having insufficient information isn't being "fooled." There is hope for me yet!

421 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:01pm

re: #412 Thanos

If you all are wondering why I'm pressing Lincoln on the Whale question it's because he stated he wasn't a creationist, but I think he really is. He's an old earth creationist. Those are creationists who have given up on the 6000 yr old Earth, but believe that G-d individually hand crafted each species in order as it appeared. So his statement about "not being a creationist" coupled with his arguing against evolution probably places him in the Old earth creationist camp, just trying to get his taxonomy down here .

I latched on to that BIG time. . .whales and this topic. . .sigh

422 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:13pm

Er, not having "sufficient" information. lol

I'm going to bed.

423 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:14pm

re: #398 Walter L. Newton

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

424 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:50pm

re: #411 Boogberg

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

There is no dark side of the moon. Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it's always dark..

425 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:01pm

re: #372 yah

Yah, Joe didn't evolve, he just became "aware". I think he should have followed his original independence streak and walked quietly out the McCain bus. I am disappointed that he didn't. It is not a character weakness to leave bad company when you must. It is a sign of character strength to leave the company of those who reveal them selves to be not what you were led to believe and are no longer honest to your way of life or mission. I think it was self guilt he was purging by being pseudo honest on Beck's interview. I think he was angry and disappointed in himself. He was rationalizing why he stayed. I always knew that my vote for McCain was the best of the worst of the two candidates.

426 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:13pm

re: #411 Boogberg

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

There are over 100 moons in the solar system. I'm not going to plot all the orbits.

427 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:16pm

re: #423 mandolin

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

I just think it is his creationist ones, they are not the same are they? no sarc

428 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:29pm

re: #367 David IV of Georgia

It is a big mistake to presume anything said on a blog is true unless it can be verified by independent sources. So if I claim to have ten PhDs or be a UN ambassador or to have created Jello™, you would do well to question it unless it is obviously just inane chatter.


Over time you get an idea about some claims. I'm pretty sure 3Wood is in the investment business for instance. Most Marines can tell a poser because there are some things that every Marine knows such as there are only two places one could have gone to boot camp. BTW, I invented Post-it notes.

429 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:36pm

re: #411 Boogberg

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

Matter of fact, it's all dark...

430 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:41pm

re: #417 Peter Verkooijen

Joe Wurzelbacher 2012

I'm in, but I don't think my car is wide enough for the bumper sticker.

431 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:20:05pm

A guy once spent 30 minutes wrestling with a pig. Until he realized the pig was having fun.

432 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:20:27pm

re: #423 mandolin

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

Jeeze! Charles has a problem with Jindal pushing his religious views into science class. A violation of federal law, btw.

433 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:20:37pm

re: #405 MandyManners

You took personal offense at that, too? Why so eager to join an aggrieved class?
Many "so-called Conservatives" want their views imposed on everyone (whether it be Creationism pro or con, abortion pro or con, gay marriage pro or con, capital gains taxes pro or con) without any respect for the ideal of diverse thought, local standards, etc.

Since all the regulars seem to think of themselves as some sort of hive-mind, let me be clear: I occasionally address issues that are not meant to further any political viewpoint. In fact, 90% of the time I post I don't care if people agree with me or not. I'm not lobbying for anything here, folks. You all need to dial back your knee-jerkiness a couple notches.

434 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:20:55pm

re: #431 Racer X

A guy once spent 30 minutes wrestling with a pig. Until he realized the pig was having fun.

so much wrong with my mind these days. . .the images I just summoned. . .shudder traf and perverted. Mind bleach. . .

435 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:21:24pm

re: #428 Rancher

Over time you get an idea about some claims. I'm pretty sure 3Wood is in the investment business for instance

And I really dig Adriana Lima. It's true.

436 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:21:48pm

re: #431 Racer X

A guy once spent 30 minutes wrestling with a pig. Until he realized the pig was having fun.

Is this the questionable dating choices thread?

437 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:12pm

re: #423 mandolin

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

Without speaking for Charles, but speaking in the general tone of our evolution/creation topics on LGF, Charles does not support a politician who wants to press creationism into schools or the public or political arena. The general consensus here (not inclusive) is that religious thoughts, theories and theology belong in the home or church and out of schools and other publicly funded ventures.

You sir misstate the issue, and you know it.

438 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:14pm

re: #427 DisturbedEma

Charles used this website to mock Jindal because he said he helped exercise a demon. Is that not an attack of his religious views?

439 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:14pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

Wow, multiple degrees. Who ever heard of such a thing. It migft take effort!

440 lifeofthemind  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:24pm

re: #376 CommonCents

I must say, I see more racism here in Michigan than I ever did in west central Florida. However, the Tampa-St. Pete area has such a diverse population of transplants it's hard to call it "the south".

The "Deep South' is really Southern Illinois and Indiana around Cairo and the Shawnee Forest. The 20th century Klan was largely a Northern reinvention. There was much Union sentiment in the South. North Carolina (State Motto should be "We are not South Carolina") only seceded after Virginia did so it was surrounded by the Confederacy and under military occupation. West Virginia pulled out, Northern Alabama wanted to pull out.

441 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:38pm

re: #433 lincolntf

Keep it up. I enjoy dinging out karmic justice.

442 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:46pm

re: #436 Gearhead

Is this the questionable dating choices thread?

Do you want it to be? Create one. . .;) Why wait for it to evolve. . .

443 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:22:47pm

re: #434 DisturbedEma

so much wrong with my mind these days. . .the images I just summoned. . .shudder traf and perverted. Mind bleach. . .

It's not your mind.....
'cept now days the guy is the one enjoying it.....

444 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:23:05pm

re: #399 Occasional Reader

If you leave out the whole "enslaving them" bit.

Given, but figure most Southerners didn't own slaves and most Northerners weren't abolitionists.

445 Boogberg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:23:24pm

re: #424 Yankee Division Son

There is no dark side of the moon. Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it's always dark..

Lol! Good point.

446 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:23:33pm

re: #412 Thanos

You either don't understand my posts or you don't understand your own. I'm no "Old-Earth" Creationist, for cryin' out loud. Pay attention.

447 nyc redneck  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:23:40pm

i can see why joe the plumber would be disappointed in mccain.
mccain just didn't fight the good fight. it was appalling to see him capitulate for no reason to absurd ideas abt. trying to appear like a "good guy".
not addressing really relevant issues just to be seen as "nice" was ridiculous and very frustrating for us, who we're screaming from the side lines for him to get his ass in gear.
not to mention those who we're actively trying to drag him across the finish line as he fought it every step of the way.
i really got the feeling he did NOT even want to be potus.
i just shake my head thinking abt. this election.

448 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:23:46pm

re: #439 lincolntf

Well- moving the goal post sure takes effort.

449 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:23:52pm

re: #304 Charles

I posted it because it because I've noticed that you're sympathetic to creationist arguments. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

I don't know what a Creationist officially is. I believe that God was and is the Prime Mover behind the Big Bang, the event that set into motion the Universe that evolved into what exists today. I believe that the physical evolution of the Universe and the biological evolution of life on Earth proceeded and continue to proceed according to natural laws -- laws set up by God in the same way that a human scientist sets up the conditions of a laboratory experiment.

The Genesis story of creation in six days seems like the exact sort of allegory I would use if I were to try to explain the cosmological origins of the Universe from the Big Bang on to a tribe of Bronze Age nomads. It would be hard, I think, to explain "billions of years" to a people who only recently discovered counting and who measure time by the agricultural seasons and the phases of the moon.

And I certainly believe in evolution through genetic mutation and reproductive selection (when people talk about "natural selection" and "survival of the fittest," they sometimes forget that they're really talking about "survival of the ones who have babies that live long enough to breed").

I know enough to know that there are many more things that we don't know than we can possibly imagine. I wonder, for example, what an atheist would say of a human scientist who uses, say, the Large Hadron Collider to create a new universe on a microscopic scale -- my understanding is that physics admits of that possibility. Would that scientist be a god to the inhabitants of that universe? Can we know with any certainty that we are not part of that very same type of experiment -- perhaps some really, really advanced fifth-grader's science fair project, existing in the cosmic equivalent of a terrarium on a dresser?

I don't want six-day, 5760-year-old Creation taught in my kids' public schools. I sent them to Sunday school at the synagogue to be exposed to those ideas, and to learn how to form their own views of cosmology. I do recognize that the First Amendment explicitly protects religious belief and practice, and I am grateful for that -- it means that just as I don't force my religious beliefs on others, so too are others prohibited from forcing me and my family to adopt their beliefs. I don't tell Christians what to believe about Jesus Christ, and when they share their Good News with me, I politely nod and move along, knowing that they're obliged to do that as part of their practice.

Have I given enough puzzle pieces to let you decide whether I am a Creationist, an Evolutionist, or maybe some sort of hybrid?

450 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:24:32pm

re: #437 Walter L. Newton

Refer to #438

451 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:24:53pm

re: #433 lincolntf

Many "so-called Conservatives" want their views imposed on everyone (whether it be Creationism pro or con, abortion pro or con, gay marriage pro or con, capital gains taxes pro or con) without any respect for the ideal of diverse thought, local standards, etc.

I'll address science classes in public schools only.

I do not want my tax dollars to teach anything in a science class that is not science. Once we allow the Biblical account to be taught, we're wide open to having the Koranic account.

Get it?

Now, fuck off.

452 sngnsgt  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:24:53pm

I always thought McCain was a weak candidate and never had a chance of winning. Jusy sayin'.

453 jorline  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:24:57pm

re: #425 notutopia

Yah, Joe didn't evolve, he just became "aware". I think he should have followed his original independence streak and walked quietly out the McCain bus. I am disappointed that he didn't. It is not a character weakness to leave bad company when you must. It is a sign of character strength to leave the company of those who reveal them selves to be not what you were led to believe and are no longer honest to your way of life or mission. I think it was self guilt he was purging by being pseudo honest on Beck's interview. I think he was angry and disappointed in himself. He was rationalizing why he stayed. I always knew that my vote for McCain was the best of the worst of the two candidates.

Spot-on...ding!

454 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:25:00pm

"Have I given enough puzzle pieces to let you decide whether I am a Creationist, an Evolutionist, or maybe some sort of hybrid?"

As long as you can be adequately pigeon-holed, you'll be good.

455 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:25:07pm

I'm not sure, but I think lincolntf might also have a masters degree as a bullshit artist.

456 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:25:30pm

re: #438 mandolin

Charles used this website to mock Jindal because he said he helped exercise a demon. Is that not an attack of his religious views?

How does one exercise a demon? Push-ups? Lift weights?

457 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:25:40pm

re: #438 mandolin

Charles used this website to mock Jindal because he said he helped exercise a demon. Is that not an attack of his religious views?

well, I believe in evil- I believe in praying for people who are in need. . .but I also believe in mental illness issues, and criminal justice, and would question why those who are members of clergy are not required to undergo this prayer for their crimes. . .am I mocking?

I do not mean to- but I guess I would need to know what you consider mocking. . .

458 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:26:09pm

re: #446 lincolntf

Well then if you are not creationist then you should be able to tell me the phylogeny of the modern whale since you don't agree with the antique original view of Darwin. So Lincoln again, answer the question proffered, what view of the whale's evolution do you support?

459 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:26:21pm

re: #428 Rancher

[Link: catalog.ebay.co.uk...]

One of my favorite movies -

460 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:26:26pm

re: #454 lincolntf

So far you're doing a great job of checking off all the little behavioral boxes that scream "dishonest poster."

461 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:26:27pm

re: #444 Rancher

Given, but figure most Southerners didn't own slaves and most Northerners weren't abolitionists.

True, but irrelevant.

462 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:26:36pm

re: #429 SlartyBartfast

Matter of fact, it's all dark...

I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!

463 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:26:57pm

How much of a difference in who was put up by the Republican Party would have happened if there were No Crossover Voting allowed?
I felt that McCain was forced on the party by crossover dems who wanted the weakest/most liberal Republican on the ticket possible.

464 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:17pm

re: #449 stuiec

I dinged that up because I was just pondering my own beliefs and how I would state them. What you posted was very close to what I would have (for what it's worth).

Again, what a wonderful world...

465 mfarmer1  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:28pm

OT-

The man who lost his entire family in the jet crash yesterday:

Wow.

466 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:31pm

re: #444 Rancher

Given, but figure most Southerners didn't own slaves and most Northerners weren't abolitionists.

actually, the relationships between blacks and whites in the areas were vastly different- diversity, even as slaves, meant that blacks were seen as people, Northern whites had less contact with blacks and were much more likely to hold racist stereotypes because of that lack on social contact. . .

467 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:31pm

re: #451 MandyManners

Now, fuck[bleep] off.

(Fitzgeraldized for your protection)

468 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:32pm

re: #451 MandyManners

I'll address science classes in public schools only.

I do not want my tax dollars to teach anything in a science class that is not science. Once we allow the Biblical account to be taught, we're wide open to having the Koranic account.

Get it?

Now, fuck off.

I forgot to add that sending kids to college who have no real grounding in evolutionary theory is doing them a huge disservice.

469 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:44pm

re: #442 DisturbedEma

Do you want it to be? Create one. . .;) Why wait for it to evolve. . .

HehTM

470 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:47pm

re: #451 MandyManners

Economics is a Science. Of a sort. Would you be so vehement in your opposition to teaching proven-to-fail Economic methods?
You can all say that this is about the purity of Science or whatever, but I detect a bias and it seems to be directed towards anyone who doesn't repeat the Daily Kos line on "evil Creationists".

471 HoosierHoops  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:27:58pm

re: #456 MandyManners

How does one exercise a demon? Push-ups? Lift weights?

I need a young priest.I need an old priest.
/

472 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:28:00pm

re: #456 MandyManners

How does one exercise a demon? Push-ups? Lift weights?

Are there leash laws for demons if you should choose to walk them?

473 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:28:41pm

re: #354 Noam Sayin'

Or maybe before the war?

Better still.

In the South, the war was about the sovereignty of the state, or state's rights, free trade and unrestricted capitalism. We wanted to sell without hindrance or undue tariffs our produce and cotton and buy dry goods and clothing in Europe where we could get better prices than from the Northern states. We felt the North was treating our states as their colonies, not as equal partners. The North's interference in the Southern slave trade was seen as just another part of their interference in our economy and our states' rights. Northern owned and operated slave ships kept bringing slaves to the West Indies throughout the war.

We should have found a way to free the slaves sooner. It was never a good system. It would not have greatly altered the overall economy or the bottom line of the farmer, rancher, or plantation owner to pay workers rather than own workers. In ten to twenty years, industrial progress and mechanical equipment would render farming much less labor intensive, meaning slavery would likely have gone away soon without any big fuss.

474 rightside  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:28:42pm
despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated.

The drive bys nominated Mac.

The press manipulates the election.

475 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:28:47pm

re: #457 DisturbedEma

It was still an attack on Jindal's religious views, and it had nothing to do with his position on creationism in public schools. Charles' dislike of Jindal goes beyond creationism.

476 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:28:48pm

re: #466 DisturbedEma

Northern whites had less contact with blacks and were much more likely to hold racist stereotypes

What evidence do you cite to support that? What's your source?

477 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:28:57pm

re: #396 DisturbedEma

Without a supernatural exponent, morals become a polite fiction that is useful in one's interacting with Society. It holds no moral weight of any action, only practical sanction. That is saying "killing is "bad"" isn't really saying anything. Why would you not kill when it is to your advantage to do so, and you stand a reasonable chance of getting away with it. You can calculate your risks versus the rewards you stand to obtain and make your decision with the pragmatic tools at hand.

The thing of it is that in most situations that will benifit you, killing will get you labeled a prime suspect, and, in due course, life in prison or death by leathal injection. Chosing not to kill is a pragmatic choice. Morality need not come into play at all.

478 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:04pm

re: #467 Occasional Reader

(Fitzgeraldized for your protection)

LOL!

479 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:10pm

Yeah Lincoln, we get it, we are all sheeples. Now please explain your views on Whales, and their evolution or lack thereof.

480 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:15pm

re: #465 mfarmer1

OT-

The man who lost his entire family in the jet crash yesterday:

Wow.

poor man. . .

481 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:29pm

re: #460 jaunte

Keep checking your little boxes. It'll make you wicked popular with the cool kids.

482 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:40pm

re: #471 HoosierHoops

I need a young priest.I need an old priest.
/

Someone recently posted a link to that music.

483 Alouette  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:40pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks Jews on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers.

Fixed that for ya.

484 jim in virginia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:44pm

re: #433 lincolntf

Since all the regulars seem to think of themselves as some sort of hive-mind

Do you actually read any of the posts here?

485 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:29:59pm

re: #472 CapeCoddah

Are there leash laws for demons if you should choose to walk them?

Gotta' be easy to scoop that poop.

486 lifeofthemind  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:00pm

Time for me to go but I see that this is turning into another ID thread. For my opinion, and I usually try to prudently avoid ID threads, this LincolnTF person has said and done nothing wrong. If he is secretly pushing an agenda of religious supremacism and intolerance then he is being very clever about it. I see no reason for anyone to have to give up personal information to strangers here if they do not want to. This is Charles' house and he can police it, others are setting themselves up to bully and they are doing wrong by our host.

487 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:01pm

re: #481 lincolntf

You're free to continue.

488 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:08pm
By contrast, the laws of the aristocracy tend to monopolize wealth and power in the hands of the few, because an aristocracy by its very nature constitutes a minority.

Back by popular demand, more de Tocqueville.

489 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:47pm

re: #481 lincolntf

It'll make you wicked popular with the cool kids.

He already is. Jealous?

490 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:57pm

re: #465 mfarmer1

OT-

The man who lost his entire family in the jet crash yesterday:

Wow.

A Korean immigrant who lost his wife, two children and mother-in-law when a Marine Corps jet slammed into the family's house said Tuesday he did not blame the pilot, who ejected and survived.

"Please pray for him not to suffer from this accident," a distraught Dong Yun Yoon told reporters gathered near the site of Monday's crash of an F/A-18D jet in San Diego's University City community.

"He is one of our treasures for the country," Yoon said in accented English punctuated by long pauses while he tried to maintain his composure.

Wow, indeed.

May we have more immigrants like this man. And may he find comfort.

491 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:59pm

Is every thread an open thread?
My, my how we diffuse into all sorts of directions.
Sort of like a living thing.
We (hubby and I) held our noses to vote McCain even though here in CA he didn't stand a chance.
I knew of a lot of Republicans and Conservatives in states where he DID have a chance who stayed home on principle.

492 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:30:59pm

re: #475 mandolin

It was still an attack on Jindal's religious views, and it had nothing to do with his position on creationism in public schools. Charles' dislike of Jindal goes beyond creationism.

So? He's not allowed an opinion on his own blog?

493 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:31:53pm

re: #465 mfarmer1

OT-

The man who lost his entire family in the jet crash yesterday:

Wow.

Poor man. I hope he will be OK, prayers for him. I cannot even begin imagine that.

494 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:31:54pm

re: #465 mfarmer1

Oh. Crap. It's people like this that give me hope for humanity.

495 jim in virginia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:32:23pm

re: #437 Walter L. Newton

Without speaking for Charles, but speaking in the general tone of our evolution/creation topics on LGF, Charles does not support a politician who wants to press creationism into schools or the public or political arena. .


As I recall, Charles had serious issues with Jindal's apparent belief in exorcism. The MSM would have much fun with that should Jindal run at the national level.

496 Boogberg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:32:23pm

re: #465 mfarmer1

OT-

The man who lost his entire family in the jet crash yesterday:

Wow.

Geez. How awful.

497 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:32:29pm

re: #476 Occasional Reader

What evidence do you cite to support that? What's your source?

Just some recollection from an undergrad sociology class. . .the point was about racial diversity. . .of couse social stratification was also huge and unequal, the slaves were not equal, by any means, but they were familiar to most southern whites was the point of the lecture I believe. . .

498 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:33:04pm

re: #485 MandyManners

Gotta' be easy to scoop that poop.

LOL

499 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:33:06pm

re: #473 David IV of Georgia

We should have found a way to free the slaves sooner.

Oh, come on. "Sooner"? Like it had been in the works, but the Confederacy just hadn't had time to get around to it?

500 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:33:15pm

re: #465 mfarmer1

That was just horrible. That whole neighborhood will not be able to sleep in peace for years. I lived in New Orleans in the 60's. We had a large jet miss the runway and crash collide into a neighborhood just north of the Moisant Terminal Hub. I lived 5 miles away and felt the impact when it blew up. For months after, everytime I heard a low flying jet coming in, I followed the sound until touchdown on the tarmat.

501 Sunlight  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:33:34pm

Anybody from VA? What about Eric Cantor?

502 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:33:38pm

[deleted]

503 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:33:40pm

HEY FOLKS... Edgar alert.

We have another Edgar here, now in the form of "lincolntf." He has not honestly answer a single question put to him, he changes the subject, ignores certain questions, and yet has so much to continue saying.

This is the same thing that Edgar was doing, and we know what happened to him.

"lincolntf" claims he doesn't lie, but that's almost all he has been doing for the last two hours. And a number of us have called him directly on his lies, and he won't answer.

He is a very dishonest person and I would not want to have to deal with him (or his family) in real life.

Too bad, I hope his kids don't grow up like up.

504 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:34:10pm

re: #370 jaunte

One of the shortcuts in creationists argumentation is to state that "Darwin was wrong about (fill in the blank)" with the implication that the mistake taints evolutionary biology to this day.

That is a shortcut in all sloppy argumentation. Didn't I notice in a recent threat someone who pointed out the Old Testament punishments prescribed for adultery, homosexual intercourse and defiance of parents? That's the same silliness: "These details are patently absurd, so the entire edifice is corrupt."

That doesn't mean that someone who points out the absurdity of certain details has a problem with the entire edifice. Being a Conservative-movement (i.e., neither Reform nor Orthodox) Jew, I understand how you can decide that the whole still functions when certain parts are removed.

Darwin may have been wrong about whales evolving from bears, but I bet he would have been blown away by the discovery that humans and kangaroos share a large common set of genes!

505 Silhouette  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:34:19pm

re: #466 DisturbedEma

actually, the relationships between blacks and whites in the areas were vastly different- diversity, even as slaves, meant that blacks were seen as people, Northern whites had less contact with blacks and were much more likely to hold racist stereotypes because of that lack on social contact. . .

My mother always called that southern bigotry and northern bigotry.

The idea being that Southerners were racist against blacks as a group, but on an individual basis, related face-to-face as friends or loved family members. On the reverse side, northerners supported equality of blacks as a group, but on an face-to-face basis, refused to interact or have them in their homes. I cannot say if this was true a little bit, true a vast majority of the time, or what, but it does describe interesting and recognizable behaviors.

I, for one, am a "southern style" cat bigot. I talk a good game about hating them as a species, but historically have loved every individual cat in my life. ;-)

506 Dianna  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:34:20pm

re: #472 CapeCoddah

Are there leash laws for demons if you should choose to walk them?

Consult Christopher Moore's Practical Demon-Keeping

507 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:34:35pm

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

Whose got the case of Edgar Off (tm)!

508 SagamoreGal  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:34:42pm

Sarah Palin is the victor for being thousands of miles away from the DC swamp. She will be the least tainted candidate in 2012.

509 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:34:55pm

re: #464 Van Helsing

I dinged that up because I was just pondering my own beliefs and how I would state them. What you posted was very close to what I would have (for what it's worth).

Again, what a wonderful world...

Thanks.

510 unclassifiable  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:35:38pm

re: #455 Sharmuta

I'm not sure, but I think lincolntf might also have a masters degree as a bullshit artist.

He'll have to run for office to get that doctorate.

511 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:35:53pm

re: #479 Thanos

Darwin looked at a bear and a whale, he decided that the bears swimming about the surface of a pond were gleaning insects much like whales glean plankton. He made a direct link from one behavior/body form to another. It would make sense if he hadn't been off by about a hundred million years or so. The problem was that he used this as a basis for a few more of his speciations/lineages.
I believe the whale is the A and the bear is the C (at best). If you don't know what that means, then I again recommend that you read as much Darwin/Huxley, etc. as possible. Much of modern "conventional wisdom" Science is based on myth. Not myth like Religious Creation, but more of a feigned omniscience of evolution that everything else rests on.

512 coloradobuff  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:36:35pm

I'm with you on that one, Charles. McCain was definitely not my choice during the primary season, but he was the only choice in the end.

513 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:36:39pm

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

HEY FOLKS... Edgar alert.

I thought some of the comments had a familiar ring to them. Must be a style thing.

514 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:36:43pm

re: #508 SagamoreGal

Sarah Palin is the victor for being thousands of miles away from the DC swamp. She will be the least tainted candidate in 2012.

That, and she also knows what to expect and how to deal with the swamp that is running for national office.

515 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:37:06pm

re: #511 lincolntf

What an amazing non-answer.

516 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:37:26pm

re: #396 DisturbedEma

but do moral positions HAVE to be religious in nature? Can't they be people behaving wonderfully because as the oatmeal commercial used to say it 'is the right thing to do and a good way to do it'?

Belief in exorcism as a cancer treatment is not a moral position, it is an article of faith so extreme as to defy logic and rational thought.
Most who do not believe in medical exorcism simply cannot trust someone with a far out belief like that to be able to keep their belief system separate from their governmental and constitutional responsibilities.

517 razorbacker  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:37:50pm

re: #449 stuiec

I don't know what you are either. I do know that what you wrote is just about exactly what I was taught in bible study classes.

518 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:38:13pm

re: #505 Silhouette

My mother always called that southern bigotry and northern bigotry.

The idea being that Southerners were racist against blacks as a group, but on an individual basis, related face-to-face as friends or loved family members. On the reverse side, northerners supported equality of blacks as a group, but on an face-to-face basis, refused to interact or have them in their homes. I cannot say if this was true a little bit, true a vast majority of the time, or what, but it does describe interesting and recognizable behaviors.

I, for one, am a "southern style" cat bigot. I talk a good game about hating them as a species, but historically have loved every individual cat in my life. ;-)

My prof did not use that term, but that was the point she was making, that the way people thought about the North and the South and race relations was not a case of "south racist and north not". . .she was just saying that the South was less prone to stereotype, not less prone to racism, because stereotypes usually come from ignorance. . .unfair generalizations that come from ignorance about anything. . .

519 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:38:15pm

re: #511 lincolntf

No, you are furthering your talking point and dodging the question. I know what I think about whale evolution, I am asking what you think about whale evolution.
You, as in you personally. Where do you think whales come from? Did they evolve from land creatures or not? What YOUR theories on it?

520 Haverwilde  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:38:30pm

re: #470 lincolntf

Economics is a Science. Of a sort. Would you be so vehement in your opposition to teaching proven-to-fail Economic methods?

Which of course is pure Bovine Scat. Economics is about as much a science as sociology is. You can get two Economists together and get three opinions on a subject.

521 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:38:35pm

re: #503 Walter L. Newton

Easy Walter. Leave its family out of it.

522 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:38:42pm

re: #515 Sharmuta

I'm not a Creationist. You're not gonna get a Creationist answer. Get over it.

523 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:38:44pm

re: #501 Sunlight

Anybody from VA? What about Eric Cantor?

Good man, smart. He has the chance to shine in the next four years.

524 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:39:05pm

re: #516 Spare O'Lake

Belief in exorcism as a cancer treatment is not a moral position, it is an article of faith so extreme as to defy logic and rational thought.
Most who do not believe in medical exorcism simply cannot trust someone with a far out belief like that to be able to keep their belief system separate from their governmental and constitutional responsibilities.

Ah, I see, I did not have the details. . .hmm

525 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:39:10pm

re: #461 Occasional Reader

True, but irrelevant.

No, not at all. My point was how individual soldiers treated blacks they came in contact with. Southerners tended to treat them as servants but not very harshly. Northerners treated them very roughly, especially the Irish. Admittedly I base this impression on the works of Michael Shaara. Also this excludes how Black soldiers were treated by the Confederacy.

526 OldScouter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:39:34pm

"When politics enter into municipal government, nothing resulting therefrom in the way of crimes and infamies is then incredible. It actually enables one to accept and believe the impossible." Mark Twain

527 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:39:58pm

Whales Lincoln, still waiting for your theory on them.

528 Sunlight  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:40:00pm

Is creationism going to be the new litmus deal breaker? There are such worse things... LGF seems like a magnet for these disputes on almost every thread now. How to discuss potential candidates with creationism/religion as one of many many traits...

529 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:40:03pm

re: #519 Thanos

He must have mastered the art of dodging a wrench.

530 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:40:11pm

Nite you lizard peeps. . .:)

531 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:40:23pm

re: #508 SagamoreGal

Sarah Palin is the victor for being thousands of miles away from the DC swamp. She will be the least tainted candidate in 2012.

Note to her handlers: no more turkey pardons.

532 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:40:55pm

re: #517 razorbacker

I don't know what you are either. I do know that what you wrote is just about exactly what I was taught in bible study classes.

Well, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Please don't tell me your Bible study classes so warped you that your life took a series of wrong turns....

/good-natured kidding

533 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:41:24pm

re: #522 lincolntf

I'm not a Creationist. You're not gonna get a Creationist answer. Get over it.

No, you make a living in Natural History, or according to your wife you try to make a living in Natural History, or according to you you would like to think that you make a living in Natural History but you currently may make a living in Engineering Management, or at times you make a living...

534 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:41:31pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Right now the biggest problem is her inexperience. After that she supports banning gay civil rights in the Constitution. I wouldn't support constitutional racism or antisemitism and I see no reason to support the same policies against gays. I also suspect that she's not very smart. If she writes a brilliant tome on her governmental or economic philosophies maybe I'll change my mind but until them I still see her as a dimwit. Republicans might be inticed by her simple redneck charm but I'm uderwhelmed.

1. you don't like her "inexperience", yet you helped elect Juggy by not voting for the alternative. i call BS.


2. what "gay civil rights in the Constitution"? please cite where it's mentioned.... more BS.

3. from your arguments above, i suspect *you* aren't very smart either: please write a world class treatise on the subject of your choice, and publish it here for peer review.until then your judgment is suspect.

4. your Freudian slip is likely more revealing about why she scares you than anything you've posted, but we'll let you take that up with your therapist.

535 unclassifiable  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:41:32pm

I still don't get why a "private" political party should have to submit itself to an open primary or any primary at all.

You wanna vote, show up for the caucus meetings.

And the GOP can go a long way to helping itself by staying away from any cockamamie proportional system like the Dem caucuses.

536 Dianna  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:41:33pm

OT:

I just had one of those irritating incidents.

I got home first, and was alone. The dogs went nuts; I pretty much ignored the corgi, who goes mad all the time, but when the black mutt started raising the roof, I paid attention, and stopped washing dishes.

From the top of the stairs, I heard something at the door, so I turned off the lights, grabbed a .45 and a tac light, and went down to the entryway, taking the black mutt. There was the sound of scraping, as of someone trying to pick the lock.

I said, "I have two dogs and a .45. Reconsider your priorities."

I thought about saying, "Reconsider your life choices", but decided that was overly-dramatic.

The sounds ceased immediately.

But I'm still jittery.

537 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:42:06pm

re: #522 lincolntf

I'm not a Creationist. You're not gonna get an Creationist answer. Get over it.


Fixed that for you.

538 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:42:13pm

re: #439 lincolntf

It migft take effort!

Rotating title material there.

539 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:42:29pm

re: #522 lincolntf

Great- so answer Thanos' question. Without dodging or spinning or otherwise bullshitting us.

540 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:42:55pm

re: #528 Sunlight

Is creationism going to be the new litmus deal breaker? ...

The litmus deal breaker for what? If you are going to make a statement like that, then complete your thought.

541 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:42:59pm

re: #536 Dianna

Call 911. Now.

542 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:43:06pm

re: #536 Dianna

Jeeze, Dianna, is the SWAT team there yet? You DID call, right?

543 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:43:12pm

re: #499 Occasional Reader

Oh, come on. "Sooner"? Like it had been in the works, but the Confederacy just hadn't had time to get around to it?

I misspoke. Too many influential Southerners had too much money tied to slaves to throw that money away. It should have been done, but was never even seriously discussed. The status quo was working for them, so they did not bother with finding alternatives. The South paid a heavy price. A few Southerners treated their slaves like they were family. A few Southerners here and there freed their slaves—a few even found ways to do it in places where it was illegal to do so. Alas that it was but a few.

544 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:43:18pm

re: #536 Dianna

Yikes, Hon! Stay safe.

545 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:43:29pm

re: #536 Dianna

I'm glad you're ok; quick thinking as ever.

546 Sunlight  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:43:31pm

re: #525 Rancher

No, not at all. My point was how individual soldiers treated blacks they came in contact with. Southerners tended to treat them as servants but not very harshly. Northerners treated them very roughly, especially the Irish. Admittedly I base this impression on the works of Michael Shaara. Also this excludes how Black soldiers were treated by the Confederacy.

Michael Shaara (and his dad) is one of my favorite authors. I can say that the U.S. military over the years has provided an accelerated (not to say perfect) forum for working through our societal issues. It works better as an institution than just about anything we have.

547 Peter Verkooijen  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:43:46pm

re: #463 mean Gene

How much of a difference in who was put up by the Republican Party would have happened if there were No Crossover Voting allowed?
I felt that McCain was forced on the party by crossover dems who wanted the weakest/most liberal Republican on the ticket possible.

No, McCain became the default candidate after the "Real Conservative Base" vetoed the nationally most viable candidates Giuliani or Romney and then split their votes across several B-level candidates like Huckabee and Thompson.

548 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:08pm

re: #536 Dianna

Call the police Dianna. Don't open the door until they get there.

549 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:12pm

re: #536 Dianna

Call 911, period. No matter if you handled it, call them.

550 razorbacker  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:12pm

re: #532 stuiec

Well, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Please don't tell me your Bible study classes so warped you that your life took a series of wrong turns....

/good-natured kidding

No, I loved the classes. I left the religion, but that was because I knew that I was going to be too 'worldly' for the Witnesses. But then, most people are.

551 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:25pm

re: #387 Walter L. Newton

The thread was created from a Joe the Plumber thread to an evolution thread.

thereby disproving ID, once and for all......

(and again. %-)

552 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:32pm

re: #541 MandyManners

Call 911. Now.

What she said.

553 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:39pm

So lincoln, you have no opinion on how whales got here or evolved, but you know that Darwin's wrong because Discovery Institute told you so, am I getting this right?

/who's the hive minder?

554 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:39pm

re: #522 lincolntf

I'm not a Creationist. You're not gonna get a Creationist answer. Get over it.

Been trying to figure out a way to jump in. Screw it.

I'm calling in Gay!

555 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:52pm

re: #519 Thanos

I believe that whales were always ocean dwellers. I don't make any claim to absolute fact on that count, but by the time "whales" were differentiated, they had to, by necessity, be sea-dwellers. The basic structure of a hummingbird and a blue whale are not very different, but the reasons for them flourishing (or not) are.
I happen to be among the minority who believes in (relatively speaking) contemporaneous air/land/sea evolution. Not that they evolved at the same exact time, obviously, but that their paths to successful existence followed parallel paths.

556 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:44:59pm

re: #536 Dianna

911 - don't wait.

557 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:45:21pm

re: #527 Thanos

You just keep yapping, don't you?

558 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:45:23pm

re: #527 Thanos

Whales Lincoln, still waiting for your theory on them.

His theory, posted at #511 above, is that the evolution of whales took about a hundred million years and many more intermediate stages than Darwin speculated in The Origin of Species. (Which, if you're keeping score, only says that Darwin made an error in his phylogeny, but confirms the principle of evolution by reproductive selection that Darwin formulated.)

Why is it important for you to believe that this guy is a hardcore, full-blown-species-out-of-nothingness Creationist? Can't a person believe in God and evolution at the same time? Lao Stinky says he can.

559 Dianna  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:45:26pm

re: #541 MandyManners

No, I have the Male.

And two dogs and a couple .45s.

560 OldScouter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:45:36pm

Good show Dianna! Note to all. When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. I carry a gun because a policeman is too heavy.

561 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:45:40pm

re: #483 Alouette
Wow, I learn something here every day.

562 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:45:52pm

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

The litmus deal breaker for what? If you are going to make a statement like that, then complete your thought.

are you sure they have the tools for that?

563 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:06pm

re: #556 CynicalConservative

911 - don't wait.

Yep.

564 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:07pm

re: #536 Dianna

Call the cops. Stop reading this post and call.

565 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:12pm

re: #536 Dianna

{Dianna}

Call the police to have them patrol your neighborhood. There may be footprints, etc.

Well done. You handled it beautifully.

566 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:18pm

re: #559 Dianna

No, I have the Male.

And two dogs and a couple .45s.

You should call, Dianna, your neighbor may not have a dog or a gun, or a male.

567 Dianna  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:21pm

re: #542 CapeCoddah

Jeeze, Dianna, is the SWAT team there yet? You DID call, right?

No.

The people are gone, and my Male is now home.

568 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:32pm

re: #559 Dianna

No, I have the Male.

And two dogs and a couple .45s.

Call the cops anyway.

569 Haverwilde  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:46:51pm

re: #536 Dianna

Wow!
But I love your style: "I have two dogs and a .45. Reconsider your priorities."
If I had been your visitor, I would be looking for somewhere to clean my pants.

570 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:05pm

re: #560 OldScouter

Good show Dianna! Note to all. When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. I carry a gun because a policeman is too heavy.

The fat jokes? Again?

571 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:05pm

re: #456 MandyManners

How does one exercise a demon? Push-ups? Lift weights?

There are many ways. You can put an M-16 in his face and force him out of the spider hole. Or you can laze his house and watch the exorcism fall silently (sans the wind from the directional fins) from the heavens to disentigrate him. There are many, many ways to exercise demons and we using alot of them....at least until January 20th.

572 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:05pm

re: #566 CapeCoddah

You should call, Dianna, your neighbor may not have a dog or a gun, or a male.

BINGO.

573 Sunlight  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:21pm

re: #540 Walter L. Newton

The litmus deal breaker for what? If you are going to make a statement like that, then complete your thought.

For not voting for someone when the alternative could be even more disastrous. For sitting it out and letting the worst of the worst win the big elections.

574 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:25pm

re: #554 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Been trying to figure out a way to jump in. Screw it.

I'm calling in Gay!


FBV, I've been meaning to tell you this for a long time but never quite knew how.
I love you man!

Say, uhh, can I have your beer?

575 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:29pm

re: #555 lincolntf

I believe that whales were always ocean dwellers. I don't make any claim to absolute fact on that count, but by the time "whales" were differentiated, they had to, by necessity, be sea-dwellers. The basic structure of a hummingbird and a blue whale are not very different, but the reasons for them flourishing (or not) are.
I happen to be among the minority who believes in (relatively speaking) contemporaneous air/land/sea evolution. Not that they evolved at the same exact time, obviously, but that their paths to successful existence followed parallel paths.

So if that's your theory, please explain to me the ancient whale fossils with feet and legs? What were those about? How does your view on whales differ from my explanation of Old Earth Creationism above?

576 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:29pm

re: #555 lincolntf

...The basic structure of a hummingbird and a blue whale are not very different,...

Elaborate. That sounds interesting. Some point please.

577 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:38pm

re: #560 OldScouter

Good show Dianna! Note to all. When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. I carry a gun because a policeman is too heavy.

Agree. But still need to log the call so the theoretical stats can direct future patrols. (wishful thinking maybe, but...) Well armed and several large noisy dogs here too.

578 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:47:51pm

bbiab

579 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:12pm

re: #536 Dianna

Good for you for taking your life seriously!.

Calm down, have cup of cocoa (with your favorite adult beverage if you so desire). Give it a few minutes, settle down, check your dogs, light, and weapon, use your home phone (if you have one) and call 911 and have them on the line while you describe the situation and then be sure that where you heard scraping from is clear.

Remember that at this point it may not be about you, but a neighbor as well. CALL 911!

580 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:13pm

re: #536 Dianna

so I turned off the lights, grabbed a .45 and a tac light, and went down to the entryway, taking the black mutt.

Well done, btw.

581 Joan  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:15pm

re: #536 Dianna

Dianna: post something.

Did you call 911?
If you fear you're just jittery, still go ahead call the local police station and say you heard a prowler.

582 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:16pm
I just had one of those irritating incidents.

I thought you were about to tell us about a printer malfunction...


(Call the effing police! Don't wait till the sumbitch comes back.)

583 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:19pm

re: #559 Dianna

No, I have the Male.

And two dogs and a couple .45s.

tell Santa you need a shotgun or two for the Holiday Event of your choice.

584 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:26pm

re: #558 stuiec

Absolutists demand absolute obeisance.
You just gotta chuckle to yourself and let 'em go off on their silly crusades. I'm rapidly growing inured to the routine.

585 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:28pm

You know what it says on a whale's drivers licence?
Picture continued on the back.

I took a whale to a restaurant. The waiter asked if I needed a menu. I said heck no, I need an estimate!

586 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:48:38pm

re: #574 Jim in Virginia

FBV, I've been meaning to tell you this for a long time but never quite knew how.
I love you man!

Say, uhh, can I have your beer?

Hang on a sec. I'm writhing in it. You can have it after it gets a bit warmer.

587 lifeofthemind  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:49:25pm

Looking back in
Dianna it is your duty, your civic duty, as a citizen to report the crie sothat the police have accurate knoledge and can do their jobs. Also the public has a right to accurate reported crime statistics, also your neighbors' safety.

588 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:49:37pm

re: #536 Dianna

If you know your foe is vanquished. And you stand triumphant and secure. Then cheer to victory with many more to come!

589 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:49:37pm

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

One's bigger.

590 slokat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:49:56pm

re: #437 Walter L. Newton

The general consensus here (not inclusive) is that religious thoughts, theories and theology belong in the home or church and out of schools and other publicly funded ventures..

I don't think you are correct in that statement.

Big difference in that statement versus advocating "for science to be taught in science class".

591 DistantThunder  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:04pm

Joe the Plumber speaks more for the American spirit than almost anyone I can remember. He is average and exceptional all at the same time.

592 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:17pm

re: #584 lincolntf

No one's making you stay.

593 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:21pm

re: #579 Van Helsing

Good for you for taking your life seriously!.

Calm down, have cup of cocoa (with your favorite adult beverage if you so desire). Give it a few minutes, settle down, check your dogs, light, and weapon, use your home phone (if you have one) and call 911 and have them on the line while you describe the situation and then be sure that where you heard scraping from is clear.

Remember that at this point it may not be about you, but a neighbor as well. CALL 911!

Agreed, except about the adult beverage. Don't drink any alcohol until you've finished dealing with the police. If they think you've been drinking, they may not take you as seriously.

594 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:26pm

re: #587 lifeofthemind

Before you call. Your gun is licensed. Right?

595 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:40pm

re: #573 Sunlight

For not voting for someone when the alternative could be even more disastrous. For sitting it out and letting the worst of the worst win the big elections.

Gee, I call that sticking to your convictions, you call it sitting it out. I don't trust anyone whole can't stick to their convictions, even evil people.

Then again, some people will compromise, just to get their way. Not cool in my book.

596 Boxy_brown  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:51pm

Charles 12/09/08 6:20:15 pm reply quotere: #120 Charles

If Bobby Jindal is the Republican nominee in 2012, I'll be voting Democrat.


Who knows Charles, he may "evolve" by then.

597 lifeofthemind  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:56pm

Typing tired, good night ladies.

598 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:50:56pm

Dianna, as others have said, you should call 911 anyway. You need not mention the .45, of course. But call them, anyway, for your neighbors.

599 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:51:26pm

re: #525 Rancher

IIRC, Nathan Bedford Forrest offered his slaves their freedom if they'd fight for the South.

Black prisoners of war were harshly treated by Forrest's men, but the black troops who fough for him apparently were treated well enough, considering that they were engaged in a war.

600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:51:42pm

re: #589 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But, they're both carbon based.

601 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:51:58pm

re: #536 Dianna

Citizen, protected. Way to keep your head, Dianna.

Probably want to let the cops in on it, anyway - for the neighbors' sake.

I'll have to remember that line.

Of course, I'll have to make the barking sounds myself.

602 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:52:02pm

re: #536 Dianna

OT:

I just had one of those irritating incidents.

I got home first, and was alone. The dogs went nuts; I pretty much ignored the corgi, who goes mad all the time, but when the black mutt started raising the roof, I paid attention, and stopped washing dishes.

From the top of the stairs, I heard something at the door, so I turned off the lights, grabbed a .45 and a tac light, and went down to the entryway, taking the black mutt. There was the sound of scraping, as of someone trying to pick the lock.

I said, "I have two dogs and a .45. Reconsider your priorities."

I thought about saying, "Reconsider your life choices", but decided that was overly-dramatic.

The sounds ceased immediately.

But I'm still jittery.

Sounds like you're prepared but maybe you should call the local police. They could at least check outside to see if anyone's lurking. Several years ago when I lived in another town (reason we moved) had several attempted break-ins. Police said it's always better to call then being surprised. One time they actually broke in when I was alone upstairs. Fortunately they were gone by the time I went to investigate. Still makes me shake when I think about it.

603 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:52:18pm

Lincoln please explain this and this and this if you think whales were always ocean going.

Also explain to me why dolphins are sometimes born with rear legs instead of flippers? Why are those regressed gene expressions there if they were always sea creatures?

604 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:52:21pm

re: #560 OldScouter

Good show Dianna! Note to all. When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. I carry a gun because a policeman is too heavy.


And that's only when our small town has a cop. We hire one, send him to the Police Academy, and then he leaves to greener pastures. Otherwise we have to depend on the State Police or the County Sheriff, which could mean hours.

605 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:52:51pm

re: #601 Noam Sayin'

Just throw your avatar at them.

606 DistantThunder  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:01pm

I have a question: Do fish sleep? Do sharks sleep? So if humans are further along the evolutionary path, why do we sleep? Seems like a waste of time, and makes us more vulnerable to attack, I would think.

(This isn't a creationist point is it?)

607 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:13pm

re: #593 Dark_Falcon

Excellent point! I stand (sit, rather) corrected.

608 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:17pm

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

Elaborate. That sounds interesting. Some point please.

Walter, now you're the one sounding naive. Spinal cords, rib cages, articulated limbs, two eyes, a complete digestive tract....

For the record, I view that those similarities mean that birds and mammals had a common chordate ancestor, and that all mammals, whales and dolphins included, had land-dwelling ancestors. On the air/land/sea parallel evolution thing, lincolntf is on his own.

609 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:32pm

re: #601 Noam Sayin'

Citizen, protected. Way to keep your head, Dianna.

Probably want to let the cops in on it, anyway - for the neighbors' sake.

I'll have to remember that line.

Of course, I'll have to make the barking sounds myself.

Sexy!

610 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:52pm

re: #575 Thanos

How does your view on whales differ from my explanation of Old Earth Creationism above?

It doesn't.
The only way for there to be a seafaring mammal without evolution is if someone put 'em there.

611 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:54pm

re: #601 Noam Sayin'

Citizen, protected. Way to keep your head, Dianna.

Probably want to let the cops in on it, anyway - for the neighbors' sake.

I'll have to remember that line.

Of course, I'll have to make the barking sounds myself.

"I have a scooter and I'm not afraid to use it!"

Works every time.

612 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:54pm

re: #601 Noam Sayin'

Of course, I'll have to make the barking sounds myself.

My barking's not very convincing, but I can do a really good jaguar growl.

Ah, the hell with it, the Mossberg racking sound should do the job.

613 OldScouter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:53:56pm

Hey Rancher;

I lived in a small town like that too. Thats when I got my CCW permit.

614 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:54:12pm

re: #583 redc1c4

tell Santa you need a shotgun or two for the Holiday Event of your choice.

Nothing makes an intruder wish he had remembered to wear Depends™ Extra Absorbency® disposable undergarments like the sound of a slide-action shotgun.

615 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:54:45pm

ttfn

616 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:54:48pm

re: #604 Rancher

And that's only when our small town has a cop. We hire one, send him to the Police Academy, and then he leaves to greener pastures. Otherwise we have to depend on the State Police or the County Sheriff, which could mean hours.

I'm rural too. That's why we protect our own. The neighborhood watch is more like an 1880's posse.

617 wolfie  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:55:06pm

re: #501 Sunlight

Anybody from VA? What about Eric Cantor?

Smart as a whip and well respected. He has a great future, IMO.

618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:55:10pm

re: #606 DistantThunder

Ever read the "Tanner" books by Lawrence Block? Sleep center was damaged in Viet Nam. Can't sleep. All that time to study. Think deep thoughts. Get's really smart.

Can someone please damage my sleep center?

619 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:55:10pm

re: #536 Dianna

It's has been my experience that you can get more with a smile, a kind word, and a gun than you can get with a smile and a kind word.

620 JacksonTn  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:55:12pm

re: #594 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

FBV ...

I think I remember you saying you travel often for business ...can you tell me which hotel/motel chain is the most consistently a good place to stay ...I will be on the road in a few weeks visiting customers and I have had a few less than good experiences lately ...

When I am going to a larger city for a trade show or to visit a corporate headquarters I stay in a nice hotel but when I am traveling to more rural areas where I need to stay along an interstate it is hit or miss ...

I like Homewood Suites but cannot always find them ... I stayed at Candlewood (sp?) last week and it was not good ...it was along the interstate outside of Atlanta ...

Just wondering ...

621 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:55:21pm

re: #603 Thanos

Also explain to me why dolphins are sometimes born with rear legs instead of flippers? Why are those regressed gene expressions there if they were always sea creatures?

He has not directly answered A SINGLE QUESTION PUT TO HIM. Nad now he is gearing up for the typical "I don't have to put up with these stupid questions" tactic.

As shown in his above statement "You just gotta chuckle to yourself and let 'em go off on their silly crusades. I'm rapidly growing inured to the routine."

I'm still interested in his Natural History career.

622 manray favjet  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:55:44pm

Unfortunaltly, we didn't have a choice in NC. Our primary was in May and the Huckster made sure Mitt was done by then.

National Primary Day. New Hampshire and Iowa know what is best for the entire nation? We put men on the moon, for years. Is it really that hard.

At least it would shorten campaign season.

623 solomonpanting  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:06pm

I don't know about whales, but I do know how birds came to be.

624 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:20pm

re: #603 Thanos

Lincoln please explain this and this and this if you think whales were always ocean going.

Also explain to me why dolphins are sometimes born with rear legs instead of flippers? Why are those regressed gene expressions there if they were always sea creatures?

He's playing exactly the same game he played in the thread I linked above. I'm not sure what creationists think they're achieving with these dishonest hamster wheel exercises, but we've seen it over and over.

625 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:23pm

re: #606 DistantThunder

Scientists don't know why we sleep. There is an ongoing debate. What is known is that animals who sleep can't live without it, so there must be a purpose.

626 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:23pm

re: #616 CommonCents

I'm rural too. That's why we protect our own. The neighborhood watch is more like an 1880's posse.

Like this?

627 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:40pm

re: #468 MandyManners

I forgot to add that sending kids to college who have no real grounding in evolutionary theory is doing them a huge disservice.

not really: they will receive first hand experience in "survival of the fittest".

628 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:41pm

re: #612 Occasional Reader

My barking's not very convincing, but I can do a really good jaguar growl.

Ah, the hell with it, the Mossberg racking sound should do the job.

A goblin can make friends with a dog, not so much with a Mossberg.

629 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:56:49pm
630 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:57:11pm

re: #606 DistantThunder

So if humans are further along the evolutionary path

There is no "further". It's a mistake to think of evolution as teleological.

631 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:57:15pm

re: #608 stuiec

Walter, now you're the one sounding naive. Spinal cords, rib cages, articulated limbs, two eyes, a complete digestive tract....

For the record, I view that those similarities mean that birds and mammals had a common chordate ancestor, and that all mammals, whales and dolphins included, had land-dwelling ancestors. On the air/land/sea parallel evolution thing, lincolntf is on his own.

Then he made no point. Shit, I can say this or that is more alike than this or that, and sound like I am saying something, even though I am saying nothing.

He made the statement as if there was some unique connection between hummingbirds and blue whales, not that they both breath air.

632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:57:25pm

re: #620 JacksonTn


Holiday Inn Express. Disappointed very seldom.

I'm in one now.

Less you got bucks. Then any Marriott property, Hilton Garden Inns are nice too.

Hampton's only okay.

633 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:57:28pm

re: #594 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Before you call. Your gun is licensed. Right?

Not all locations require licensing, but a good question regardless. (spit on licensing in general)

634 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:57:35pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

It's has been my experience that you can get more with a smile, a kind word, and a gun than you can get with a smile and a kind word.

Please do give Al Capone proper credit for that line, Iron Fist.

635 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:57:57pm

re: #463 mean Gene

agreed

636 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:58:08pm

re: #555 lincolntf

I believe that whales were always ocean dwellers. I don't make any claim to absolute fact on that count, but by the time "whales" were differentiated, they had to, by necessity, be sea-dwellers. The basic structure of a hummingbird and a blue whale are not very different, but the reasons for them flourishing (or not) are.
I happen to be among the minority who believes in (relatively speaking) contemporaneous air/land/sea evolution. Not that they evolved at the same exact time, obviously, but that their paths to successful existence followed parallel paths.


How were whales differentiated? What do you mean by that?

637 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:58:34pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

It's has been my experience that you can get more with a smile, a kind word, and a gun than you can get with a smile and a kind word.

I've had a few guns pointed at me. Even when I was in the right, I suddenly decided the other person had excellent views that should be seriously considered and acted upon with all due haste.

638 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:58:39pm

re: #625 Basho

Scientists don't know why we sleep. There is an ongoing debate. What is known is that animals who sleep can't live without it, so there must be a purpose.

It's so we can take a break from idiots like "You just gotta chuckle to yourself and let 'em go off on their silly crusades. I'm rapidly growing inured to the routine."

His logic would kill anyone.

639 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:58:49pm

re: #633 CynicalConservative

Just sayin. Hate for her to be in the hole cause of some stupid rule.

640 Captain Amercia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:58:49pm

I have rewired my "Clapper" with the sound of a shotgun racking. This give me enough time to retrieve the real thing since I have little ones and am a responsible gun owner. Anyway a couple of claps and a rack usually does the trick. KNOWWUDIMEAN?

http://firstin.wordpress.com/

641 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:58:55pm

re: #624 Charles

He's playing exactly the same game he played in the thread I linked above. I'm not sure what creationists think they're achieving with these dishonest hamster wheel exercises, but we've seen it over and over.

Yeah, I'm more interested in pedigreeing his type, I think I have him pegged correctly.

642 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:59:14pm

re: #620 JacksonTn

can you tell me which hotel/motel chain is the most consistently a good place to stay

Four Seasons.

(Hey, you didn't say anything about price)

643 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:59:24pm

re: #621 Walter L. Newton

I'm still interested in his Natural History career.

He teaches it apparently... Teaches that life showed up at the same time without a common ancestor.

Sounds natural enough. Nothing supernatural about that at all. Move along...

644 JacksonTn  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:59:29pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Holiday Inn Express. Disappointed very seldom.

I'm in one now.

Less you got bucks. Then any Marriott property, Hilton Garden Inns are nice too.

Hampton's only okay.

Thanks ...I will spend the money if I am going to be spending time actually in the room ... if it is just a stop to plop and go on the next day ...I stay in the middle range money ...

645 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:59:36pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Holiday Inn Express. Disappointed very seldom. I'm in one now. Less you got bucks. Then any Marriott property, Hilton Garden Inns are nice too. Hampton's only okay.

Don't try the tofu beef sticks in the vending machine, they'll kill ya.

646 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:59:47pm

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

You honestly don't understand the essential underpinnings of vertebrate anatomy?
Rest assured, they are very similar.

As for the vestigial legs, etc., that is the crux of the issue. Was there one four-legged mammal that lived on land and then spawned all whales/dolphins/fish, etc.? The fossil record seems to say No. Were the legs, arms, etc. found on some specimens an offshoot of aborted Evolutionary processes? Maybe.
It's Science, not politics. Disagreement doesn't offend me. I'd be happy to hear from someone who has alternative theories that they prefer. The preachy "anti's" can take a break if someone really wants to discuss Natural History.

647 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:59:51pm

re: #626 MandyManners

Get a load of the hand cannon that one guy's sporting.

I bet at least a half dozen lizards could tell the make and model of each and every one of those firearms just by looking at that pic.

648 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:09pm

re: #639 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just sayin. Hate for her to be in the hole cause of some stupid rule.

Yeah, hopefully not in Illinois or NY or CA or any other liberal area.

649 revGDright  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:13pm

They should have run Romney. He would have lost but he would have stood as a republican and he would have positively cleaned wiped out Obama in debates about the economy, making headway for GOP on capital hill. George Bush is the last republican president we will have for many many years, deal with it. 12 million new naturalized votes will be up for grabs in 2012, and they are not going to vote republican. Any attempts by the republicans to run a Jindal or any minority no matter how qualified will be perceived as tokenism. The only hope for the repubs is concentrate on the statehouses and try to take back Congress, which they might be able to do if they ever decide to stand for something again.

650 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:19pm

re: #644 JacksonTn

HIE it is then. Consistently interested in pleasing. make sure you join priority club first. it freaking rocks!

651 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:54pm

re: #614 David IV of Georgia

I have a suggestion for keeping that pump close by.
I went to the hardware store and purchased two large bike rack hooks coated in plastic. I took a wide jaw pair of pliers and closed the gap even closer. I then drilled two pilot holes into the wooden box frame under my side of the bed and screwed them in 20' apart. The shotgun slips out freely when I need it. I can grab it with one hand extended out over the bed.

652 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:55pm

re: #645 Walter L. Newton

Don't try the tofu beef sticks in the vending machine, they'll kill ya.

Only if they're made of meat.

653 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:55pm

re: #635 rawmuse

agreed

Thanks but someone else here thinks that the ''conservative'' votes were divided so that Republicans did it to themselves.
There's probably some truth to both.
By the time of my primary a lot of options were already gone.

654 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:00:56pm

re: #637 David IV of Georgia

I've had a few guns pointed at me. Even when I was in the right, I suddenly decided the other person had excellent views that should be seriously considered and acted upon with all due haste.

Although some say that a large blade produces that effect even more convincingly; it's more... visceral. So I've read, anyway.

655 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:01:09pm

re: #616 CommonCents

When I was a kid me and a friend of mine would do a walking patrol of my neighborhood. Armed. The only thing we ever saw that was untoward was a couple of girls sneaking out of their house. We debated waking the parents up, but decided against it They might would have called the cops, and I know John Law would have had a problem with the firepower we were carrying.

656 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:01:27pm

Stuiec: "Were differentiated" doesn't = Evolved.

657 JacksonTn  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:01:36pm

re: #642 Occasional Reader

Four Seasons.

(Hey, you didn't say anything about price)

Only stay at those when on pleasure trips ...best one ...in my opinion so far ...Nevis ...

658 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:01:42pm

re: #626 MandyManners

Like this?

Very similar, but those folks look a bit too classy.

659 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:01:44pm

re: #647 Noam Sayin'

Get a load of the hand cannon that one guy's sporting.

I bet at least a half dozen lizards could tell the make and model of each and every one of those firearms just by looking at that pic.

Looks like a Smith and Wesson model 500 in 50 caliber.

660 right_on_target  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:01:52pm

re: #204 reine.de.tout

Jindal signed into a law a bill that will allow the ID / creationist agenda to flourish in Louisiana schools.

The one I've linked to is a duplicate of the one signed.


______________________________________
I don't think ID is "flourishing" in Louisiana. In my kids' schools it's almost ridiculed.

661 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:02pm

re: #632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hampton's only okay.

Really? I haven't stayed in one in a long time, but my impression was that they were pretty good as middle-market chains went.

662 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:04pm

re: #651 notutopia

What kind of fucking neighborhood do you live in? I'd recommend a good real estate agent.

How's your credit?

/

663 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:07pm

re: #603 Thanos

re: #641 Thanos

You poor little things. Nobody's trying to trick you into thinking anything. Get back on the hamster wheel of paranoid conspiracy fantasies.

664 Joan  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:16pm

About Joe the Plumber:

bleah.

The whole implosion disturbs me. What's that saying about sausage making and elections?

665 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:41pm

re: #646 lincolntf

Yes, but how were Whales "differentiated" Lincoln, and what the heck does that mean?

666 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:43pm

re: #634 Dark_Falcon


I was quoting what one of the ranking Black Belts at my dojo says. I guess he got it from Capone.

667 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:49pm

Ah- and now we move into the phase of outright insults. How predictable.

668 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:02:53pm

re: #653 mean Gene

I voted for Fred just in time for him to back out of the race.

669 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:03:04pm

re: #643 Basho

He teaches it apparently... Teaches that life showed up at the same time without a common ancestor.

Sounds natural enough. Nothing supernatural about that at all. Move along...

He doesn't do shit. In one comment he said he makes a living "in Natural History." In another comment he said

"My wife would say that I'm "trying to make a living" in Natural History, and she'd be mostly right. My "real" career is Construction Mgmt. Either way, I don't lie in my posts or in my real life. I find it morally repugnant and ultimately counter-productive."

And when he has been asked (about 8 times now) what he really does for a living, or at least explain his comments above, he ignores our questions.

He is wrong above, he does lie in his posts. He has done it at least 4 times in this thread, all proven by his own comments.

670 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:03:10pm

re: #667 Sharmuta

Hive five, yo.

671 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:03:28pm

re: #647 Noam Sayin'

Get a load of the hand cannon that one guy's sporting.

I bet at least a half dozen lizards could tell the make and model of each and every one of those firearms just by looking at that pic.

You know what they say about the size of a man's gun.

672 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:03:42pm

re: #603 Thanos

Great post worthy of many updings. But what of this? Is that a random mutation or a programmed response from deep within the DNA?

673 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:03:49pm

re: #661 Occasional Reader

I prefer HIE. Upgrades are easier. Freaking Hampton won't even upgrade you to a king without an upcharge. Seriously.

I'm in a jacuzzi suite right now. Just cause they love me.

674 OldScouter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:03:53pm

I live in a pretty gun friendly state. No registration, and the carry permit is issued on a "displayed responsibility" basis. Simply means a background check, and a one day safety and proficiency course. Had to pass an accuracy test, but that part was easy, thanks to a very patient Sgt back in the sixties.

675 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:00pm

re: #646 lincolntf

Was there one four-legged mammal that lived on land and then spawned all whales/dolphins/fish, etc.?

Fish aren't mammals...
And what's with the DNA evidence that says whales are related to hippos and their type...

676 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:04pm

re: #663 lincolntf

re: #641 Thanos

You poor little things. Nobody's trying to trick you into thinking anything. Get back on the hamster wheel of paranoid conspiracy fantasies.

Wow, he is an asshole, to boot.

677 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:10pm

re: #656 Thanos

So when a species died off 50 million years ago, had it not evolved for 50 million years before that? The current fauna and flora on Earth are not an end-product. Just one of a zillion transitional phases.

678 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:16pm

re: #663 lincolntf

Quit with the ad hominem, it doesn't work with me, answer the questions.

679 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:19pm

re: #658 CommonCents

Very similar, but those folks look a bit too classy.

LOL!

680 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:29pm

re: #612 Occasional Reader

My barking's not very convincing, but I can do a really good jaguar growl.

Then surely support the International Bioacoustics Council.

681 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:35pm

re: #663 lincolntf

re: #641 Thanos

You poor little things. Nobody's trying to trick you into thinking anything. Get back on the hamster wheel of paranoid conspiracy fantasies.

Now you're just being a jerk. Don't insult Thanos he's he's making good points and your reaction is unwarranted.

682 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:53pm

re: #657 JacksonTn

Only stay at those when on pleasure trips ...best one ...in my opinion so far ...Nevis ...

I prefer staying in them on business trips, when someone else is paying for them...

(And they never suck, that's for sure)

683 JacksonTn  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:58pm

re: #673 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I prefer HIE. Upgrades are easier. Freaking Hampton won't even upgrade you to a king without an upcharge. Seriously.

I'm in a jacuzzi suite right now. Just cause they love me.

One reason I like the club thing about the middle price motels is that I can get a late checkout if I need it ...I hate getting bugged about getting out of the room ...that to me is worth the sign up ...

684 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:04:59pm

re: #626 MandyManners


That's not too bad for me, but what are the other people going to carry?

685 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:00pm

re: #666 Iron Fist

I was quoting what one of the ranking Black Belts at my dojo says. I guess he got it from Capone.

Fair enough.

686 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:07pm

re: #660 right_on_target

______________________________________
I don't think ID is "flourishing" in Louisiana. In my kids' schools it's almost ridiculed.

We wouldn't know how the students feel if we didn't allow the discussion to take place at school.
So, it's almost ridiculed in schools where it is allowed to be discussed, but where it is forced underground it will attract the following from among those students who like to be rebellious......literally all students.

687 wolfie  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:23pm

re: #629 Noam Sayin'

Gotcha, Noam! :)

688 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:30pm

re: #668 rawmuse

I voted for Fred just in time for him to back out of the race.

I voted Hunter, but he never broke from the starting gate.

689 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:31pm

re: #659 rawmuse

Looks like a Smith and Wesson model 500 in 50 caliber.

Had one of those on the shooting point next to me this weekend.

Holy moly, I thought something exploded and I nearly hit the dirt.

690 Joan  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:39pm

re: #596 Boxy_brown

Charles 12/09/08 6:20:15 pm reply quote

Who knows Charles, he may "evolve" by then.

I don't think we need to line up behind anyone for 2012 yet.

/Draft Patraeus.

691 Desert Dog  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:41pm

re: #665 Thanos

Some species evolve, other regress.....the gene pool eventually weeds out the weak ones, but, sometimes, one slips through and manages to post on a blog

692 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:05:46pm

re: #654 Occasional Reader

Although some say that a large blade produces that effect even more convincingly; it's more... visceral. So I've read, anyway.

With a blade you can be more... convincing? Slices are easier than knees, elbows, etc.

It all depends on your primary goal.

693 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:03pm

re: #672 Mich-again

Great post worthy of many updings. But what of this? Is that a random mutation or a programmed response from deep within the DNA?

Real-life virgin birth? I think I saw that on House today.

694 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:04pm

re: #663 lincolntf

Trying to out-do AnneFrance's Karma/

695 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:29pm

re: #672 Mich-again

Great post worthy of many updings. But what of this? Is that a random mutation or a programmed response from deep within the DNA?

Very interesting. Many species (frogs come to mind) can reproduce that way in stressed environments. It's a blazing new discovery if it's really never been observed in sharks before.

696 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:30pm

re: #688 jcm

Yeah, for us it was Romney.
But before we knew it, he, too was gone.

697 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:30pm

re: #647 Noam Sayin'

Get a load of the hand cannon that one guy's sporting.

I bet at least a half dozen lizards could tell the make and model of each and every one of those firearms just by looking at that pic.

Don't know about all of them, but I believe the hand cannon is a Ruger Redhawk.

698 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:32pm

re: #686 mean Gene

In any case, it would be a short discussion. there's no 'there' there:

"Easily, the biggest challenge facing the ID community is to develop a full-fledged theory of biological design. We don't have such a theory right now, and that's a real problem. Without a theory, it's very hard to know where to direct your research focus. Right now, we've got a bag full of powerful intuitions and a handful of notions such as irreducible complexity, but as yet, no general theory of biological design."
Paul Nelson, Discovery Institute Fellow and ID theorist.

699 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:34pm

re: #689 Noam Sayin'

I saw one in a pawn shop in Alaska. They are illegal in CA. Thanks for nothing, Ahnold.

700 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:06:52pm

re: #694 MandyManners

Trying to out-do AnneFrance's Karma/

What was that ending number, anyway?

701 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:07:22pm

re: #671 MandyManners

You know what they say about the size of a man's gun.

Over compensating for a small penis?

Here's my collection.

702 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:07:40pm

re: #689 Noam Sayin'

Had one of those on the shooting point next to me this weekend.

Holy moly, I thought something exploded and I nearly hit the dirt.

Those have a bigger charge than the Desert Eagle .50, I was on a range with one of those, and could feel the shock wave go by.

703 unclassifiable  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:07:42pm

re: #694 MandyManners

Shouldn't a down ding by Charles count as -100 or something?

704 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:07:53pm

re: #683 JacksonTn

One reason I like the club thing about the middle price motels is that I can get a late checkout if I need it ...I hate getting bugged about getting out of the room ...that to me is worth the sign up ...

Always ask for late checkout (if you want one); very rarely have I been turned down, and it gets you out of the 12 noon checkout crush, if nothing else.

705 Haverwilde  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:08:24pm

re: #671 MandyManners

You know what they say about the size of a man's gun.

Hmmm, I have a real lettle one,... gun that is.

706 JacksonTn  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:08:29pm

re: #682 Occasional Reader

I prefer staying in them on business trips, when someone else is paying for them...

(And they never suck, that's for sure)

If I could ever get anyone to pay for one for me I would definitely take them up on it ...but since I am the boss ... I usually end up footing the bills ...

I don't think I have anyone ever pay for much for us even tho we spend a gazillion dollars as customers but then we are in agriculture ...unless you count the free fertilizer we get sometimes ...I do love Four Seasons on vacations ...

707 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:08:52pm

re: #684 Iron Fist

That's not too bad for me, but what are the other people going to carry?

Dang. Quite an arsenal.

708 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:08:55pm

re: #677 lincolntf
That was pretty vague.

Back to the subject, you say whales just appeared in the oceans, did they evolve from anything? If so, what?

What exactly do you mean by "were differentiated"? Remember as well that the good book has a thing to say about false witness.

709 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:08:57pm

re: #669 Walter L. Newton

You post too much, too often, with too many parrots. Impossible to respond in turn.
I make my "real" living doing residential/commercial flatwork planning, design, installation. (Yes, I still get down in the concrete and break a sweat). I'd love to truly "make a living" doing Natural History writing, but thus far it's been more of a hobby. I've pub'd a couple, but they were more fix-ups than anything else. Next year(or maybe the year after) it should be a full-time gig. If not, then screw it, I didn't learn all of this just to make money, I learned it because it's fascinating.

710 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:09:00pm

re: #665 Thanos

Yes, but how were Whales "differentiated" Lincoln, and what the heck does that mean?

As Lincoln has dropped little phrases over and over in this thread, I have been Googling his verbiage, and it doesn't jive with the sort of "group speak" that can be found in the "Natural History" world.

It's evident that Lincoln is at the most self-educated in this area. He certainly has no critical thinking skills that would enable him to make a coherent and logical argument of his points. And his language skills in this topic area is not that of a scientist.

I smell bullshit.

711 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:09:02pm

re: #698 jaunte

Actually I haven't much of a clear idea of either 1. what is being taught in LA or 2. what ID claims to believe or teach.
I just know how forbidden fruit is treated by young people.
They will take a bite simply because it is a ''no-no.''

712 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:09:24pm

re: #647 Noam Sayin'

Get a load of the hand cannon that one guy's sporting.

I bet at least a half dozen lizards could tell the make and model of each and every one of those firearms just by looking at that pic.

i'd need more detail, but the cannon looks like a 454 Causal (sp?) or a 500 S&W. shotgun on the left looks like a 870 Wingmaster, and......

/sorry.....

713 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:09:26pm

re: #700 CapeCoddah

What was that ending number, anyway?

I have no idea. bbiab

714 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:09:26pm

re: #697 Occasional Reader

Don't know about all of them, but I believe the hand cannon is a Ruger Redhawk.

No way. Look at that barrel. 6.5 inches.
Here is what it is.

715 wolfie  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:09:57pm

re: #649 revGDright

Some good points there. Food for thought.

716 OldScouter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:10:08pm

My last thought for tonight. Goodnight all

. I was once asked by a lady visiting my home if I had a gun in the house. I said I did. She said "Well I certainly hope it isn't loaded!" To which I said, “Of course it is loaded. It doesn’t work without bullets!" She then asked, "Are you afraid of some evil person coming into your house?" My reply was, "No, not at all. I am not afraid of the house catching fire either, but I have fire extinguishers around, and they are also loaded." To which I'll add, having a gun in the house that isn't loaded is like having a car in your garage without gas in the tank.

717 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:10:31pm

re: #708 Thanos

You're a Bible thumper now? Don't give me your "Good Book" crap.

718 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:10:40pm

re: #680 experiencedtraveller

Then surely support the International Bioacoustics Council.

No, really... I do an excellent growl. I've freaked out yappy little dogs with it.

719 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:10:54pm

Might I suggest a GAZE? This has been largely non-productive for ~700 comments now.

Just saying...

720 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:11:12pm

re: #683 JacksonTn

Nothing like a two o'clock check out.

721 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:11:31pm

re: #709 lincolntf

You post too much, too often, with too many parrots. Impossible to respond in turn.
I make my "real" living doing residential/commercial flatwork planning, design, installation. (Yes, I still get down in the concrete and break a sweat). I'd love to truly "make a living" doing Natural History writing, but thus far it's been more of a hobby. I've pub'd a couple, but they were more fix-ups than anything else. Next year(or maybe the year after) it should be a full-time gig. If not, then screw it, I didn't learn all of this just to make money, I learned it because it's fascinating.

I got 'parrot' right here... Smack!

722 Ann Nonymous  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:11:50pm

I'm in Iowa...the 2012 presidential election should begin here next month or so. My observation on some of the duds that ran this year:

Mitt Romney came off as a used car salesman. Hair a little too perfect, always going for the hard sell, telling you things that he thinks you want to hear, even though a little research tells you that he probably doesn't really believe any of it. He was leaving robo calls at my house daily in August...2007. Over a year before the election even happened. I voted against him if only so he would leave me the hell alone.

Huckabee won the caucus here based soley on the religious vote. He was really the only (vocal) "acceptable" candidate for them one one issue: abortion. I still don't know why this is the litmus test for the religious types - what exactly can a president do about it, anyway? Nominate judges, sure, but are you telling me that none of the other candidates would appoint judges that interpret the constitution in a way that would limit Roe v Wade?

Fred jumped in too late, pure and simple. I bet most people had their minds made up on who they would vote for before he even officially entered the race.

Rudy was my guy, but he was never all that serious here in Iowa. And the religious types were very anti-Rudy, again based soley on the abortion thing.

McCain was a dud, let's be honest. Throughout the ;rimary season I kept saying that I could never vote for the guy. I keep saying I voted for Palin, because I still can't stand McCain.

Joe the Plumber's comments just make me respect him more. I really appreciate his honesty, and would like to tell him I agree 100%.

723 unclassifiable  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:11:55pm

re: #701 Noam Sayin'

If Plaxico shot himself with one of those he might have avoided the whole suspension thing.

724 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:11:55pm

Good Night All.

725 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:11:56pm

re: #719 CynicalConservative

Trolls keeps us from infighting.

726 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:12:03pm

re: #701 Noam Sayin'

Over compensating for a small penis?

Here's my collection.

No. It corresponds to the size of his holster.

727 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:12:20pm

re: #699 rawmuse

We have a few at the Gander Mountain around here. Outside of back up when hunting bear I can't, for the life of me, see a use for it. It's too damn big to carry, and too powerful for home defense.

Oh, I'd take one if it were a gift, but I can't see me shelling the cold, hard cash one of those puppies runs. I'd save it towards the MG-42 fund.

728 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:12:23pm

re: #719 CynicalConservative

Might I suggest a GAZE? This has been largely non-productive for ~700 comments now.

Just saying...

Agreed.
re: #717 lincolntf

You're a Bible thumper now? Don't give me your "Good Book" crap.

GAZE.

729 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:12:54pm

re: #701 Noam Sayin'

Over compensating for a small penis?

Here's my collection.

Oh, my stars and bars! I saw the video. You so sneaky.

730 lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:12:56pm

re: #710 Walter L. Newton

Yeah, I Googled your name and learned all about apples and gravity.

Get up, leave your house, disconnect from the Internet, learn something in the real world and then post it all. You sound like one of those 12 year olds who's never learned anything that couldn't be found on Wikipedia.

731 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:12:57pm

re: #709 lincolntf

You post too much, too often, with too many parrots. Impossible to respond in turn.
I make my "real" living doing residential/commercial flatwork planning, design, installation. (Yes, I still get down in the concrete and break a sweat). I'd love to truly "make a living" doing Natural History writing, but thus far it's been more of a hobby. I've pub'd a couple, but they were more fix-ups than anything else. Next year(or maybe the year after) it should be a full-time gig. If not, then screw it, I didn't learn all of this just to make money, I learned it because it's fascinating.

Thank you for some clarification to my questions.

So, you did lie when you made the statement the first time that you "make a living in Natural History?"

And butthead, don't tell me what is too much posting or too often posting. What are you some fucking thick-necked thread cop?

732 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:04pm

re: #698 jaunte

In any case, it would be a short discussion. there's no 'there' there:

Yeah but San Francisco, Berkeley and the redwoods are close at hand!

733 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:14pm

re: #725 Sharmuta

Trolls keeps us from infighting.

True dat! More tiresome than entertaining in this case though.

734 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:26pm

re: #700 CapeCoddah

What was that ending number, anyway?

I couldn't find it.

735 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:36pm

re: #714 rawmuse

No way. Look at that barrel. 6.5 inches.
Here is what it is.

Doesn't look quite right.

Super Redhawk, on the other hand...

736 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:40pm

re: #717 lincolntf

No, I'm an atheist who's studied most religions. Answer the questions Lincoln.

737 JacksonTn  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:49pm

re: #720 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nothing like a two o'clock check out.

Thanks FBV ...maybe you will join me for a snack to show my appreciation for your recommendations ...

[Link: www.jorginahall.com...]

738 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:13:56pm

bbiab

739 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:14:04pm

re: #707 MandyManners

If you only knew :-)

740 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:14:39pm

re: #716 OldScouter

Or fire extinguishers that don't work.

741 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:14:56pm

re: #734 MandyManners

I couldn't find it.

Don't worry about it, no big deal..I was mildly curious.

742 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:15:07pm

re: #711 mean Gene

The fundamental driver of ID is the fear that science leads to a strictly materialistic worldview, and because of it, morality will disappear from society. The DI wants to reintroduce a theistic science that will halt the trend.
Philip Johnson said:
"Once God is culturally determined to be imaginary, then god's morality loses its foundation and withers away. It may stay standing for a historical moment without foundation until the winds of change blow hard enough to knock it over, like a cartoon character staying suspended after he runs off a cliff. We are at the end of that period now."

Problem is, there is no suitable replacement for the currently accepted science, so the best that can be done from the point of view of the creationists is to poke at biological science and talk about a 'controversy.'

743 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:15:14pm

re: #624 Charles

He's playing exactly the same game he played in the thread I linked above. I'm not sure what creationists think they're achieving with these dishonest hamster wheel exercises, but we've seen it over and over.

I'm wondering if he is trying to distinguish between

being a "political creationist" who wants creationism-intelligent design to be part of science curriculum and political platforms, or

a "religious creationist" who thinks a First Cause, a divine being created all that is, or

that he is one of those people who think they are being smart and witty trying to
hijack threads.

If he is having trouble explaining what kind of creationist he is, and what kind he isn't, I'm sure that if he bothered to explain what he means to say, people would be OK with it.

744 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:15:15pm

re: #689 Noam Sayin'

Had one of those on the shooting point next to me this weekend.

Holy moly, I thought something exploded and I nearly hit the dirt.

same thing happens when i crank off a few rounds of .445 Super Magnum from my Dan Wesson..... %-)

/hard to find a range where i can fire it indoors though.

745 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:15:35pm

re: #709 lincolntf


I make my "real" living doing residential/commercial flatwork planning, design, installation. (Yes, I still get down in the concrete and break a sweat). I'd love to truly "make a living" doing Natural History writing, but thus far it's been more of a hobby. I've pub'd a couple, but they were more fix-ups than anything else. Next year(or maybe the year after) it should be a full-time gig. If not, then screw it, I didn't learn all of this just to make money, I learned it because it's fascinating.

Huh?!? You said:

I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day.

Hard to remember lies, isn't it? Much easier to tell the truth. Learned that in first grade.

746 slokat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:15:55pm

re: #603 Thanos

Also explain to me why dolphins are sometimes born with rear legs instead of flippers? Why are those regressed gene expressions there if they were always sea creatures?


Hmmm, regression or maybe the start of a new land animal?

And, maybe the whales with legs tried, but couldn't support their weight on land?

Or, is evolution only linear & progressive?

747 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:15:57pm

My biggest problem with the prevailing theory of evolution is that I am not convinced that mutations are random.

If I understand common wisdom, evolution is the result of natural selection of random mutations. I am not so sure. I think more of the mutations were the result of environmental forces and cross polination than were just succesful randomness.

748 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:16:04pm

O/T. Prayers to the man who lost his family in the F-18 crash in Miramar area yesterday.

749 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:16:42pm

re: #699 rawmuse

I saw one in a pawn shop in Alaska. They are illegal in CA. Thanks for nothing, Ahnold.

you sure? i saw one for resale (previously owned) just the other day.....

750 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:16:45pm

re: #718 Occasional Reader

No, really... I do an excellent growl. I've freaked out yappy little dogs with it.

Yeah but what does Mrs. Reader think about it? ;)

751 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:16:52pm

re: #735 Occasional Reader

Whatever it is, it is a big damn gun. The proverbial Hog Leg personified.

752 Desert Dog  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:17:07pm

re: #748 Russkilitlover

O/T. Prayers to the man who lost his family in the F-18 crash in Miramar area yesterday.

That is really sad....out of nowhere, the entire family is gone...no sense or reason

753 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:17:36pm

re: #730 lincolntf

Yeah, I Googled your name and learned all about apples and gravity.

Get up, leave your house, disconnect from the Internet, learn something in the real world and then post it all. You sound like one of those 12 year olds who's never learned anything that couldn't be found on Wikipedia.

Hey jerk, click on my name if you want to know something about me. And if you did Google my name, you would not have even implied that I should am some 12 year old stuck in my basement.

And guess what, whoopie, got you a little heated up there, at least we got a little passion out of you instead of your Gomer Pyle comebacks for the last two hours.

754 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:18:19pm

Okay, y'all. It's past 11pm here in the future. I'm going to the bed. Going to sleep in it.

755 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:18:19pm

re: #746 slokat

See the article on hippo genes, then come back and make that argument. But yeah it could go either way in a theoretical sense.

756 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:18:37pm

re: #697 Occasional Reader

Don't know about all of them, but I believe the hand cannon is a Ruger Redhawk.

Not a Redhawk, as you'll notice the difference here. I think it's the S&W as rawmuse noted earlier.

The first shotgun looks like a Remington 870 Wingmaster, and judging by what I see as a slight difference in barrel size, a 20 gauge. The next shotgun over looks to be a Mossberg, but I can't be sure. And the last shotgun on the right looks like a Remington 1100.

Those are my guesses.

757 Sloppy  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:19:09pm

Was discussing the "war of northern aggression" once with a lady from Richmond, and because I am from a northern state (Neb.) she got so exercised about what happened to her city in 1865 I thought she was gonna punch me out. In self-defense I pointed out that Nebraska wasn't even a state until 1867. That calmed her a bit. I refrained from mentioning that Nebraska sent something like three regiments of volunteers to fight for the north.

758 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:02pm

re: #747 Mich-again

My biggest problem with the prevailing theory of evolution is that I am not convinced that mutations are random.

If I understand common wisdom, evolution is the result of natural selection of random mutations. I am not so sure. I think more of the mutations were the result of environmental forces and cross polination than were just succesful randomness.

Well, random in the sense that it can't be predicted any better than with the methods of statistics. In science, random doesn't mean meaningless.

759 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:11pm

re: #745 Basho

That'll leave a mark.

760 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:16pm

re: #748 Russkilitlover

O/T. Prayers to the man who lost his family in the F-18 crash in Miramar area yesterday.

Prayers being said. So tragic.

761 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:18pm

re: #626 MandyManners

Like this?

Like your neighbors. Party with them a lot?

762 Desert Dog  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:38pm

re: #747 Mich-again

My biggest problem with the prevailing theory of evolution is that I am not convinced that mutations are random.

If I understand common wisdom, evolution is the result of natural selection of random mutations. I am not so sure. I think more of the mutations were the result of environmental forces and cross polination than were just succesful randomness.

I think there is both, no? Some traits are a result of the random mixing of genes....hair color, eyes, size, etc....others, like color changes or the addition or regression of one limb to form something else are obliviously as result of environmental demands. The species that adapt are the ones that get to keep living. The ones that do not....well, they become Democrats (just kidding).....

763 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:42pm

re: #742 jaunte

The fundamental driver of ID is the fear that science leads to a strictly materialistic worldview, and because of it, morality will disappear from society. The DI wants to reintroduce a theistic science that will halt the trend.

Good point, but I think if you dig a little deeper, you'll find that even the Discovery Institute drones are really saying just one thing: "I didn't come from no APE!"

This is the primal revulsion that drives creationism, and its modern disguised cousin "intelligent design" is just a gloss on that attitude.

764 Happy Fun Ball  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:44pm

Actually, he was the second worst. The absolute worst was...


wait for it...


RON PAUL!

765 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:47pm

re: #752 Desert Dog

That is really sad....out of nowhere, the entire family is gone...no sense or reason

You spend you time at work for your family and your lifestyle. You certainly don't expect an F-18 to fall out of the blue and wipe out your family.

My thoughts are going out to the pilot and to the man who, while at work, received the most inexplicable information that could ever be received.

Prayers, thoughts, good wishes, all of my own Karma, etc. go out to the homeowner and the pilot. What a tragedy for everyone.

766 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:20:48pm

re: #744 redc1c4

same thing happens when i crank off a few rounds of .445 Super Magnum from my Dan Wesson..... %-)

/hard to find a range where i can fire it indoors though.

My boomstick at range even bigger.

I are Alpha Male. Grunt.

767 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:21:31pm

re: #750 experiencedtraveller

Yeah but what does Mrs. Reader think about it? ;)

Well, when we play "Tiger and Hyena"...

768 Lynn B.  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:21:33pm

re: #127 Iron Fist

No. Clinton was impeached by the House. The Senate refused to convict him and remove him from office. It wasn't even close. Basically the Senate said "So what?", because no one really disputed the charges. It was just another example of the Democrats playing with their own special rules.

It was very close, if you consider the vote. Not so close to the 2/3 needed for conviction but pretty damn close (45 to 55 and 50/50) on the question of guilt. You'd think that would have created a stain on Clinton's legacy but many Americans obviously don't even realize that he was, in fact, impeached.

/I probably shouldn't have dinged you down but ... dammit ... it WAS close. (and I'm in violation of your Rule)

769 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:21:40pm

re: #749 redc1c4

you sure? i saw one for resale (previously owned) just the other day.....

Ahnold banned .50 cal guns. The model 500 is .500 caliber, and I confess that I do not appreciate the difference, but there may in fact be one.

770 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:21:53pm

re: #757 Sloppy

Good call on that.
The granting of statehood and whether the territories would be slave holder or non-slaveholder was one of the issues, er, under discussion at the time.

771 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:21:55pm

re: #654 Occasional Reader

Although some say that a large blade produces that effect even more convincingly; it's more... visceral. So I've read, anyway.

The feel of cold steel against your head, the sidelong glance that sees the lead in the wheel of the revolver, produces an willingness to comply with almost anything.

772 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:22:12pm

Well- if anyone's tired of this troll, there is a Nirther on this thread still going at it.

773 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:22:30pm

re: #766 Occasional Reader

My boomstick at range even bigger.

I are Alpha Male. Grunt.

Coleslaw is on OR!

774 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:22:31pm

re: #745 Basho

re: #709 lincolntf

I make my "real" living doing residential/commercial flatwork planning, design, installation. (Yes, I still get down in the concrete and break a sweat). I'd love to truly "make a living" doing Natural History writing, but thus far it's been more of a hobby. I've pub'd a couple, but they were more fix-ups than anything else. Next year(or maybe the year after) it should be a full-time gig. If not, then screw it, I didn't learn all of this just to make money, I learned it because it's fascinating.

Huh?!? You said:

I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day.

Hard to remember lies, isn't it? Much easier to tell the truth. Learned that in first grade.

I've been watching this process with some amusement.

775 Desert Dog  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:22:41pm

re: #765 Russkilitlover

There is nothing good from that crash. The man's family is gone, the pilot will never forget and carry that with him the rest of his life...what a tragic accident.

776 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:22:43pm

Lincoln, Whales, you got nothing right?

777 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:22:45pm

re: #763 Charles

Yes, and I think 'slime' comes in for its share of revulsion, too.

778 wolfie  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:23:08pm

re: #731 Walter L. Newton

My personal belief is that whales were once dolphins but then quit smoking.

The raisins helping any, WN?

779 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:23:34pm

re: #774 Charles

I've been watching this process with some amusement.

Good to keep your sense of humor, I don't know if I'd be able to.

780 Salamantis  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:23:52pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

Astronomical observations indicate that the universe is 13.73 ± 0.12 billion years old. Its diameter is at least 93 billion light years, or 880 ×1024 (that is to say, 880 followed by twenty-four zeroes) metres.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

781 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:23:57pm

re: #757 Sloppy


The civil war is still very real to people who've lived in this area. Most of us lost family (in extended family), etc. About a decade a go they found a number of bodies that had been dumped in a copse of trees. The initial thought was that they had found a serial killer's dumping ground. It turned out to have been a bunch of bodies that had been cleared off of a minor battlefield and just dumped without even the dignity of a mass grave.

782 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:24:39pm

Lincoln, what were whales "Differentiated" from, and what the heck do you mean by "differentiated?"

783 average_guy  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:25:12pm

If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

The Media knew that too, of course. That's why he was was their Darling Maverick McCain.

784 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:25:25pm

re: #778 wolfie

My personal belief is that whales were once dolphins but then quit smoking.

The raisins helping any, WN?

I don't understand that quote above, I didn't say that.

Anyway, yes I used the raisins in the control booth during the shows this weekend and they helped keep me off the candy.

Of course, I ate 13 pounds of raisins in 3 days (just kidding on that last point).

785 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:25:25pm

re: #772 Sharmuta

Well- if anyone's tired of this troll, there is a Nirther on this thread still going at it.

LOL
I don't know a lot about that conspiracy so I won't get into it, but what I do know is that Obama's Certification of Live Birth says:

"This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding."

What more could one ask for?

786 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:26:13pm

re: #766 Occasional Reader

My boomstick at range even bigger.

I are Alpha Male. Grunt.

Next time your waiter gets pushy about the salad...

787 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:26:24pm

re: #781 Iron Fist

Roughly where are you (if you don't mind sharing)?

788 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:26:25pm

re: #785 Basho

What more could one ask for?

Rhetorical, right? Because if you want to know, the answer lies on that thread.

789 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:26:44pm

re: #743 David IV of Georgia

I tend to try to find the good in people, but am now leaning more towards him being either a Moby or just asocial or lacking social graces.

790 mean Gene  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:27:10pm

re: #742 jaunte

Thanks for that short but interesting explanation.
I play chess.
The idea that science leads to a strictly materialistic worldview, and because of it, morality will disappear from society is proved absurd by chess, logic and a lot of other things.
In chess anything can happen in each next move; from a blunder to the best possible move for the present position.
In war all planning gets adjusted as soon as the two sides meet on the battlefield.
In logic there are no true dilemmas.
Think of a strict this-leads-to-that as a dilemma. A false dilemma.
There are always other possibilities.
Just like the two ''horns of a dilemma,'' you can get over the horns, through the horns, around the horns, between the horns, under the horns and so on.
Seems like if ID is really based on such fallacies, so easily destroyed it could not have lasted so long or been adopted by so many.....but there I go again.

791 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:27:20pm

re: #766 Occasional Reader

My boomstick at range even bigger.

I are Alpha Male. Grunt.

i grunt..... once upon a time. alpha *this* %-)

and i'll match ya shotguns any time....

792 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:27:26pm

re: #757 Sloppy

Was discussing the "war of northern aggression" once with a lady from Richmond, and because I am from a northern state (Neb.) she got so exercised about what happened to her city in 1865 I thought she was gonna punch me out. In self-defense I pointed out that Nebraska wasn't even a state until 1867. That calmed her a bit. I refrained from mentioning that Nebraska sent something like three regiments of volunteers to fight for the north.

Perhaps "get a life" would have been an appropriate response. I mean, sheesh, I don't go around snarling at people with English accents, do I?

793 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:28:15pm

re: #749 redc1c4

you sure? i saw one for resale (previously owned) just the other day.....

Maybe not, here is the law as of year 2006, sounds like it applies only to the 50 cal BMG.

A person may not possess or transport an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle, as defined, unless the weapon has been registered as an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle with the Department of Justice, or the person has obtained a permit for that weapon from the
Department. (Penal Code §§ 12276, 12280, 12285, 12286.)
A lawfully possessed assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle may be transported for any lawful purpose if it is unloaded and either securely locked in the trunk of a vehicle or in a locked container carried inside the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (Penal
Code §§ 12280(m), 12285(c)(7), 12026.1.)

794 CynicalConservative  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:28:19pm

re: #772 Sharmuta

Well- if anyone's tired of this troll, there is a Nirther on this thread still going at it.

Looks like bitterclinger got the stick....

795 unclassifiable  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:28:39pm

re: #785 Basho

LOL
I don't know a lot about that conspiracy so I won't get into it, but what I do know is that Obama's Certification of Live Birth says:

"This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding."

What more could one ask for?

Apparently some want a video of the live birth and the placenta.

796 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:29:48pm

re: #791 redc1c4

and i'll match ya shotguns any time....

Tomorrow, then. At dawn.

Until then, I bid you goodnight, sir.

797 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:29:53pm

re: #769 rawmuse

Ahnold banned .50 cal guns. The model 500 is .500 caliber, and I confess that I do not appreciate the difference, but there may in fact be one.

teh funny is that Barret came out with (iirc) a .416 round with better ballistics than the .50, and it's legal. saw one in Burbank the other day.....

just didn't have the 4K to buy it..... %-(

the S&W was at another shop down the street, on consignment. they have closed, so not sure where it went.

798 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:30:04pm

re: #795 unclassifiable

It's funny because it's true.

799 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:30:15pm

re: #792 Occasional Reader

Perhaps "get a life" would have been an appropriate response. I mean, sheesh, I don't go around snarling at people with English accents, do I?

Ummm... does that mean I should stop? ;-)

800 EmmmieG  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:31:10pm

re: #792 Occasional Reader

Perhaps "get a life" would have been an appropriate response. I mean, sheesh, I don't go around snarling at people with English accents, do I?

Had an English friend over here back when we had my daughter's Rev War timeline up on the wall. (Homeschooler decor tends to be "early school project") She looked up at it and I told her what it was.

She asked, "did we win?"

I replied, "define 'we.'"

She thought it was funny. Probably because she got her citizenship already, so she could laugh.

801 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:31:19pm

re: #793 rawmuse

Maybe not, here is the law as of year 2006, sounds like it applies only to the 50 cal BMG.

A person may not possess or transport an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle, as defined, unless the weapon has been registered as an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle with the Department of Justice, or the person has obtained a permit for that weapon from the
Department. (Penal Code §§ 12276, 12280, 12285, 12286.)
A lawfully possessed assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle may be transported for any lawful purpose if it is unloaded and either securely locked in the trunk of a vehicle or in a locked container carried inside the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (Penal
Code §§ 12280(m), 12285(c)(7), 12026.1.)

Yep, 50 BigMotha***nGun only, the .50 S&W is fine.

802 wolfie  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:31:33pm

re: #784 Walter L. Newton


LOL ! Not a quote. Just a joke about what happens to us ex-smokers!
Glad the raisins are helping a little bit, anyway. Hang in there!

803 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:31:35pm

re: #795 unclassifiable

Apparently some want a video of the live birth and the placenta.

Videos can be faked. And placenta could come from anywhere.

See how easy it is? You too can be a Nirther!

804 pingjockey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:31:55pm

re: #798 Sharmuta
I just went and looked at the nirth herder thread. OMG! what a loon.

805 JohnAdams  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:32:07pm

OT: Is it possible that the Greek rioting is just more evidence that Europe is far down the trail toward total Communist revolution?

806 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:32:15pm

re: #769 rawmuse

A .500 S&W is a pistol round. A .50 BMG round is a considerably larger rifle round. While I'm sure that the .500 S&W will make a mean hole in someone if you shot them with it, the .50 BMG will cut a man in half with a solid body shot. After penetrating the length of a car they are hiding behind.

At 1000 yards. A .50 BMG is only supposed to be used against military equipment, like trucks or low-flying aircraft. So you aim at the belt buckle of the target and squeese. A belt buckle is military equipment.

807 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:32:25pm

re: #791 redc1c4

i grunt..... once upon a time. alpha *this* %-)

and i'll match ya shotguns any time....

Sure. 10,000 paces and body armor. No slugs or sabots.

808 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:33:50pm

pfft. He ran away, now what kind of fun is that?

809 pingjockey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:33:52pm

Might folks. Eye is raising hell.

810 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:33:56pm

re: #762 Desert Dog

... or the addition or regression of one limb to form something else are obliviously as result of environmental demands.

Oh thats not so obvious. According to the most venerated theories, all mutations are and and have always been random.

811 unclassifiable  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:33:57pm

re: #803 Charles

Videos can be faked. And placenta could come from anywhere.

See how easy it is? You too can be a Nirther!

I beg your pardon. Everyone knows that the "Made in ________" stamp is on the placenta!

812 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:34:06pm

re: #806 Iron Fist

The shockwave will kill if you miss by

813 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:34:54pm

re: #787 Van Helsing

Knoxville, Tennessee. I have parents who live in South Carolina, which is where those bodies were found.

814 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:35:07pm

re: #805 JohnAdams

OT: Is it possible that the Greek rioting is just more evidence that Europe is far down the trail toward total Communist revolution?

No- nationalist revolution. But that's my take.

815 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:35:37pm

re: #808 Thanos

pfft. He ran away, now what kind of fun is that?

It was getting a little too hard to keep all the stories straight.

816 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:35:40pm

re: #806 Iron Fist

At 1000 yards. A .50 BMG is only supposed to be used against military equipment, like trucks or low-flying aircraft.

And yet, there is actually a .50 BMG hollowpoint round. Really.

Which I believe is used for hunting dinosaurs.

817 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:36:39pm

re: #807 David IV of Georgia

Sure. 10,000 paces and body armor. No slugs or sabots.

lemme go get the M-60.

/

818 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:36:49pm

re: #806 Iron Fist

Yeah, there were some vids of Canadian snipers blasting at Taliban from more than a mile out with a 50 BMG. It was plenty grisly. Heck, one time the shooter missed, hit the rocks near the target, and the rock shards killed him anyway. Vids were made through the spotter scope. I forget where they went on the internet.

819 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:37:14pm

re: #816 Occasional Reader

And yet, there is actually a .50 BMG hollowpoint round. Really.

Which I believe is used for hunting dinosaurs.

i like the 50 cal SLAP round.....

820 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:37:28pm

re: #806 Iron Fist

A .500 S&W is a pistol round. A .50 BMG round is a considerably larger rifle round. While I'm sure that the .500 S&W will make a mean hole in someone if you shot them with it, the .50 BMG will cut a man in half with a solid body shot. After penetrating the length of a car they are hiding behind.

At 1000 yards. A .50 BMG is only supposed to be used against military equipment, like trucks or low-flying aircraft. So you aim at the belt buckle of the target and squeese. A belt buckle is military equipment.

A Canadian made a .50 shot with a Barrett at 2430m (2657yd, 7971ft, 1.5 miles)

821 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:37:36pm

re: #812 Van Helsing


I've only got to shoot a Barrett once. There's a nice toy on my "I wants it" list that I know I'll never be able to swing. Now those MG-42s, maybe if next year goes well I'll be able to spring for one of them.

822 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:37:44pm

re: #788 Sharmuta

Seems the thread went dead when I entered. Figures =P

823 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:38:21pm

re: #818 rawmuse

Yeah, there were some vids of Canadian snipers blasting at Taliban from more than a mile out with a 50 BMG. It was plenty grisly. Heck, one time the shooter missed, hit the rocks near the target, and the rock shards killed him anyway. Vids were made through the spotter scope. I forget where they went on the internet.

Here you go.

824 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:38:32pm

re: #813 Iron Fist

Knoxville, Tennessee. I have parents who live in South Carolina, which is where those bodies were found.

Thanks.
I just had brain fart - I used a "less than" (open angle) in a post and everything after it disappeared.

No biggie. How does one use them?

825 boogberg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:39:11pm

re: #763 Charles

Good point, but I think if you dig a little deeper, you'll find that even the Discovery Institute drones are really saying just one thing: "I didn't come from no APE!"

...Not to mention controlling people by convincing them that if they don't toe (or tow) the creationist line, they'll burn in eternal hellfire.

826 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:39:47pm

fun fact firing an M-2 at night......

after you put enough rounds down the barrel to get it good and warm you can see the bullets going down the bore...... which is neat to watch.

the down side is, this means you are near to barrel droop and a round going out the side, with overly exciting side effects.

827 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:39:50pm

re: #823 Noam Sayin'

Here you go.

What was that flew up in the first part of the video?

828 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:04pm

re: #810 Mich-again

Oh thats not so obvious. According to the most venerated theories, all mutations are and and have always been random.

Well not quite, introduction of chemicals, lack of some nutrients, and other things can prevent some gene expressions, so something that was in some distant ancestor could re-express in a new way due to environmental factors. Think in terms of how sometimes the water is more acidic, less acidic etc. It turns out that methyls are the preffered method of changing things with gene expression in labs atm.

Also do a searh on the the different "patrics"... e.g. allopatric, the other types listed in this wiki article.

829 2SoonOld2LateSmart  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:19pm

re: #780 Salamantis

Astronomical observations indicate that the universe is 13.73 ± 0.12 billion years old. Its diameter is at least 93 billion light years, or 880 ×1024 (that is to say, 880 followed by twenty-four zeroes) metres.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yabbut, there is a whole lot missing. Somebody explain to me where the missing dark matter went to.

/really need to know

830 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:23pm

re: #823 Noam Sayin'

Oh, yeah. Warning: graphic.

831 Joan  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:41pm

re: #261 jcm

I heard an interesting comment on the radio today (don't know who the pundit was). He observed that the Left only knows how to weaken, to destroy institutions. They are not able to build or strengthen the institutions that build character and a strong will. The example he gave was the Boy Scouts, an institution of youth character building, ethical formation, ability to persevere with a problem, leadership.

Here we are without leaders. A large minority of us do not persevere or have a strong will. We've got a large minority educated to dependency, group identity, an ethos of tolerance and pleasure-seeking above other values.

It was interesting, wonder if other examples would fit his idea. btw I observe some of the cultural traits he mentioned in myself--it takes a conscious effort to "un-tolerance" myself on issues that actually matter.

832 Salamantis  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:41pm

re: #423 mandolin

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

It's Jinda's actions in signing into law a Disco-Institute-crafted bill specifically designed to provide loopholes for the teaching of creationism in public high school science classes that concerns us.

833 JohnAdams  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:45pm

re: #814 Sharmuta

No- nationalist revolution. But that's my take.

Still, with the panic, the situation seems ripe. You've got millions with both a sense of entitlement and youthful rebellion at anything. When their share drops in a bad economy, revolt.

What's scary is that they have no idea what they are rebelling against.

834 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:40:55pm

The True Story- The Goldberg Brothers Automobile Air Conditioner

The four Goldberg brothers, Lowell, Norman, Hiram, and Max, invented and developed the first automobile air-conditioner.

On July 17, 1946, the temperature in Detroit was 97 degrees.

The four brothers walked into old man Henry Ford's office and sweet-talked his secretary into telling him that four gentlemen were there with the most exciting innovation in the auto industry since the electric starter.

Henry was curious and invited them into his office. They refused and instead asked that he come out to the parking lot to their car. They persuaded him to get into the car, which was about 130 degrees, turned on the air conditioner, and cooled the car off immediately.

The old man got very excited and invited them back to the office, where he offered them $3 million for the patent.

The brothers refused, saying they would settle for $2 million, but they wanted the recognition by having a label, 'The Goldberg Air-Conditioner,' on the dashboard of each car in which it was installed.

Now old man Ford was more than just a little anti-Semitic, and there was no way he was going to put the Goldbergs' name on two million Fords. They haggled back and forth for about two hours, and finally agreed on $4 million and that just their first names would be shown.

And so to this day, all Ford air conditioners show....Lo, Norm, Hi, and Max on the controls.

So, now you know...
/

835 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:41:07pm

re: #827 MandyManners

What was that flew up in the first part of the video?

torso, or parts thereof.

836 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:41:13pm

re: #826 redc1c4

the down side is, this means you are near to barrel droop

They have pills for that now.

837 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:41:14pm

re: #827 MandyManners

What was that flew up in the first part of the video?

Roughly 1/2 of a jihadi.

838 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:41:30pm

re: #821 Iron Fist

I've only got to shoot a Barrett once. There's a nice toy on my "I wants it" list that I know I'll never be able to swing. Now those MG-42s, maybe if next year goes well I'll be able to spring for one of them.

Class 3 MG-42? what's that cost these days?

839 hermit  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:41:35pm

y'know -- what really, really burns me about these ID/Creationist types is that they are fighting for this concept as if it were truly some sort of crisis in the educational system!

I watched the video link last night of the judge...I also teach in the trenches of elementary and middle school.

The greatest educational crisis is NOT about the content of the science curriculum! If they were to put all this money and energy into teaching the American system of government and the 1st three articles of the constitution - required memorization of the bill of rights, I would have even a tiny amount of respect for them. But no, was the flood an actual event....did this really evolve from that?! WTF?!?

A bunch of idiots picking daisies out in intellectual left field while the system of government which protects them is being nearly ignored!

Teach your children whatever you want and teach them to protect the right you have been granted to TEACH them!
/rant off....I think

840 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:41:50pm

re: #815 Charles

It was getting a little too hard to keep all the stories straight.

Yes, a skein of lies once woven makes it impossible to juggle the ball of yarn.

841 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:42:12pm

re: #823 Noam Sayin'

Here you go.

Video discussion on snopes, snipers intercut with varmint hunting sequences is the consensus.

842 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:42:25pm

re: #827 MandyManners

What was that flew up in the first part of the video?

it's a rock chuck.... read the comments on this video.

843 JohnAdams  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:43:34pm

re: #831 Joan

I heard an interesting comment on the radio today (don't know who the pundit was). He observed that the Left only knows how to weaken, to destroy institutions. They are not able to build or strengthen the institutions that build character and a strong will. The example he gave was the Boy Scouts, an institution of youth character building, ethical formation, ability to persevere with a problem, leadership.

Here we are without leaders. A large minority of us do not persevere or have a strong will. We've got a large minority educated to dependency, group identity, an ethos of tolerance and pleasure-seeking above other values.

It was interesting, wonder if other examples would fit his idea. btw I observe some of the cultural traits he mentioned in myself--it takes a conscious effort to "un-tolerance" myself on issues that actually matter.

Upding on an honest and insightful post.

844 slokat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:43:59pm

re: #755 Thanos

See the article on hippo genes, then come back and make that argument. But yeah it could go either way in a theoretical sense.

My point is that we discuss activities of millions of years and the assumptions tend to be that "things progressed". Were hippos once only aquatic?

845 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:44:00pm

re: #816 Occasional Reader

My senior year of High School I was civillian attached personnel to a Ready Reserve tank platoon. I didn't get to play with all the toys, But I was allowed to set in on training. That business about the Enemy's belt buckle was a piece of military equipment came from a trainging session on the M-2. They didn't let me fire the M-2, though. We did get to watch the tanks doing marksmanship drills, and, woah, boy, there's a serious piece of firepower. We only had M-60 tanks, I think they've got a 105mm Cannon. The Abrams (I still think of it as the new Abrams even if it has been in service for twenty years) has a 120mm cannon.

They should really spray-paint "Don't Fuck With Me" on the turrets of the Abrams.

846 Salamantis  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 8:44:12pm

re: #438 mandolin

Charles used this website to mock Jindal because he said he helped exercise a demon. Is that not an attack of his religious views?

The action of engaging in an exorcism with members of a campus Christian group, with no Catholic or any other clergy present, doesn't exactly demonstrate the world's most reasoned judgment.