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Joe the Plumber: McCain 'Appalled Me'

Politics | Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:47:59 pm PST

Hey, Joe. Where you going with that wrench in your hand? Joe the Plumber: McCain ‘appalled me’.

Joe Wurzelbacher lashed out at former GOP presidential nominee John McCain Tuesday, the man who made Wurzelbacher famous as “Joe the Plumber.” Wurzelbacher told conservative radio host Glenn Beck that he felt “dirty” after “being on the campaign trail and seeing some of the things that take place.”

Recalling a conversation he had with McCain about the $700 billion financial industry bailout in September, Wurzelbacher said: “When I was on the bus with him, I asked him a lot of questions about the bailout because most Americans did not want that to happen.”

“I asked him some pretty direct questions,” he continued. “Some of the answers you guys are gonna receive — they appalled me, absolutely. I was angry. In fact, I wanted to get off the bus after I talked to him.”

Asked why he didn’t leave McCain’s campaign if he was “appalled” by the candidate, Wurzelbacher said, “honestly, because the thought of Barack Obama as president scares me even more.”

That pretty much says it all. I voted for John McCain under great duress, despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated. This is what I wrote on February 5th, the night before Super Tuesday, when I endorsed the only remaining alternative, Mitt Romney:

If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

I wish I had been wrong. But I wasn’t.

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1203 comments

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1 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:32pm

ahhhh a breath of fresh air

2 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:32pm

You obviously have not lived in Massachusetts. Endorsing Romney is like putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger.

3 Dayenu  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:40pm

Giulliani in '12?

How did Rudy manage to run such a miserable campaign, now that I think about it...

4 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:49:45pm

Joe was not alone in holding his nose.

5 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:50:18pm
That pretty much says it all. I voted for John McCain under great duress, despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated.

That pretty well sums up my feelings, and why McCain lost.

6 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:50:56pm

Joe the Plumber '08.......

He's got to be better than anyone inside the Beltway.

7 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:06pm

re: #5 jcm
what you said.

8 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:06pm

Politics is not for the squeamish.

9 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:32pm

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in that bus.

10 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:39pm

re: #8 itellu3times
nor republicans

11 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:43pm

McCain was bad. BHO will probably be worse. Where, oh, where is there conservative (non so-con) in the Repub party?

12 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:51:56pm

re: #5 jcm

That pretty well sums up my feelings, and why McCain lost.


See from my perspective, he was not that bad. . .but I was a democrat then, and dear leader as president was just wrong. . .sigh

Who was this Mitt guy? jk, I know. . .but I am guessing even I would have voted for ABO= anyone but O

13 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:11pm

re: #6 jcm

Joe the Plumber '08.......

He's got to be better than anyone inside the Beltway.

2008?

14 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:32pm

Absolutely.

I wish politicians had balls like Joe the Plumber - high carbon steel.

15 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:43pm

He's more like us than he realizes.

16 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:52:45pm

You weren't wrong, and Joe Wurzelbacher certainly wasn't alone in thinking that McCain wasn't up to the task of leading the GOP to win (if it was possible at all).

I think many people were questioning McCain's endorsement of the bailout, and those questions should ring even louder now. The earlier bailout to save people from foreclosure has turned out to be a disaster. Throwing money at the problem isn't solving matters either - it's delaying the necessary lessons from being learned about cheap and easy credit.

As for the rest, McCain ran a lackluster campaign and the one bright spot was the choice of Palin. It was the one thing that really got people talking about his campaign, but that was more than offset by his ground game, and McCain's was sorely lacking. There was a real lack of enthusiasm among the GOP, and many simply didn't get out in vote. Had all those who voted for Bush in 2004 voted for McCain, he might have still lost, but the down-races would have been far more interesting.

17 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:53:10pm

re: #14 Noam Sayin'

Rust never sleeps, that's why so many prefer brass.

18 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:53:47pm

re: #11 Russkilitlover

McCain was bad. BHO will probably be worse. Where, oh, where is there conservative (non so-con) in the Repub party?

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

19 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:53:53pm

re: #13 MandyManners

2008?

By an act of Congress, we're going to repeat 2008 again next year, and this time we'll get it right.

20 pat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:05pm
"That pretty much says it all. I voted for John McCain under great duress, despite the fact that I believed (and still believe) that he was the worst possible candidate the GOP could have nominated. This is what I wrote on February 5th, the night before Super Tuesday, when I endorsed the only remaining alternative, Mitt Romney:

If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

I wish I had been wrong. But I wasn’t."

Took the words right out of my mouth, CJ.

21 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:12pm

"Sarah Palin was the absolute real deal". Yeah, tell that to the Repubs.

22 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:18pm

Just another election like so many others in my life where you wind up voting "no" instead of "yes".

23 maddogg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:23pm

Well if Joe was holding his nose before, I expect he is wearing a full blown biohazard suit now.

24 picaro  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:26pm

I voted for Palin. McCain was just tagging along.

25 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:27pm

re: #13 MandyManners

2008?

LOL! I haven't given up yet!
PIMF

26 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:54:57pm

re: #3 Dayenu

Giulliani in '12?

How did Rudy manage to run such a miserable campaign, now that I think about it...

Simple. He tried to avoid running in the caucuses and held out hope that he could simply sweep in, take FL and roll on to victory from there. In hindsight it was a bad move. It was a bold but risky move but had he managed to win FL, it could have changed the way the primaries turned out. Still, Rudy presented many of the same faults McCain did on social policy.

27 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:55:24pm

re: #24 picaro

I voted for Palin. McCain was just tagging along.

I echo that sentiment.

28 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:55:33pm

re: #26 lawhawk
but he would have been better.

29 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:55:51pm

Looks like I am Joe the Plummer again.

30 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:56:27pm

re: #29 Rancher
rancher? rustler?

31 Russkilitlover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:56:35pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

Yup. And how's that gonna fare for the conservative/republican, dare I say it? THE REPUBLIC party?

32 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:15pm

Romney/ Guiliani / Thompson with Palin would have been closer to a win, but I don't think it would have been enough, not this year.

33 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:17pm

The fact that McCain did as well as he did only shows Paddy O'bama's weakness.

I tend to think the Romney and Huckabee split the conservative vote and McCain was the benefactor.

Are there any Republican leaders out there? I think there's an opening...

34 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:17pm

re: #8 itellu3times

Politics is not for the squeamish.

It's a sausage factory - no one wants to see how it's done, and right now the epicenter is the slaughterhouse known as the Chicago Machine. At least with sausage, you have an expectation that it might turn out tasty and filling. Politics? Not so much.

35 bravesoat  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:26pm

I voted for Joe Biden. Obama was tagging along [with the SEIU/FBI/Rev Wright/Freedom Fighter Ayers]

36 winston06  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:36pm

We now have to make sure that McCain doesn't help Sen. Obama get away with his radical agenda. McCain has a history of doing some silly stuff. 2012 is not so far away. GOP will make a comeback

37 USCMSNE  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:57:45pm
If John McCain is the nominee, we’re going to have at least four years of a Democrat in the White House.

Win or Lose, you would still have been right.

/I'd still rather have him in there, though.

38 apachegunner  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:58:01pm

re: #32 Thanos
without the economy nobama would have been less likey to win.

39 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:58:03pm

re: #14 Noam Sayin'

*pinch*

40 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:58:55pm

re: #19 itellu3times

By an act of Congress, we're going to repeat 2008 again next year, and this time we'll get it right.

I'm all for that.

41 picaro  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:14pm

re: #31 Russkilitlover

I lean socially conservative and I voted for Rudy. I figured he would not be appointing any Souters or Kennedys.

42 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:15pm

re: #32 Thanos

Romney/ Guiliani / Thompson with Palin would have been closer to a win, but I don't think it would have been enough, not this year.

I'm going to stick up for Rudy here, because I spoke with a few moderates and with some liberals who were excited about him during the primaries. I think Rudy would have had the broadest appeal to the moderate and independent voters of any of our candidates.

43 bryantms  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:23pm

I've given all but given up hope for the next four years. I know that Obama will not be good for any of the situations we now face, the economic crisis, Iran, Iraq, etc...

On the other hand, I'm secretly (or not so secretly) hoping that this sets us up for a strong conservative (one in which we haven't seen for many years) four years from now.

44 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:32pm

re: #35 bravesoat

I voted for Joe Biden. Obama was tagging along [with the SEIU/FBI/Rev Wright/Freedom Fighter Ayers]

/
Have one of mine, you must have forgot it.

45 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:42pm

re: #25 jcm

LOL! I haven't given up yet!
PIMF

Tenacity's a good thing.

46 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:48pm

re: #17 itellu3times

Think you missed the point.

Still love the avatar, though.

47 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 5:59:53pm

re: #27 Sleepyone

I echo that sentiment.

Ditto.

48 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:00:10pm

re: #39 MandyManners

*pinch*

*giggle*

49 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:01:05pm

re: #43 bryantms

I've given all but given up hope for the next four years. I know that Obama will not be good for any of the situations we now face, the economic crisis, Iran, Iraq, etc...

On the other hand, I'm secretly (or not so secretly) hoping that this sets us up for a strong conservative (one in which we haven't seen for many years) four years from now.

Who? Who is this person?

50 Spar Kling  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:01:07pm

The horror is now beginning to dawn on the radical Left that they actually elected a clone of John McCain and that the election was a card trick.

Pick a card . . .

-sk

51 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:01:19pm

We've been had by the dems and the republicans.

52 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:11pm

Mitt's going to run into problems going forward, especially with the anti-Mormon backlash resulting from Prop 8 in CA. That's not going to make him many friends among moderates and independents.

As for others, I think Rudy's going to be passed by in 2012 - this was his shot. There's got to be some fresh blood and someone has to pick up the reins of the GOP. Maybe it's JC Watts. Could be Jindal (though I know Charles would dismiss him because of the ID in school fiasco).

I'd be curious to see who shows up to CPAC and gives a barnburner that sets forth a policy platform and lays out a strategy of conservatism to move forward. Navel gazing isn't going to get it done.

It also means starting the ground game for 2010 now and working to deal with winning back Congress in increments. Start with the House in 2010, and then try for the Senate in 2012 along with the WH.

53 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:13pm

re: #50 Spar Kling

The horror is now beginning to dawn on the radical Left that they actually elected a clone of John McCain and that the election was a card trick.

Pick a card . . .

-sk

Damn, perking up that karma thing, huh.

54 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:25pm

OT
Al Gore News Alert:
It is snowing/sleeting hard in Dallas, Texas right now.
No accumulation, the ground is still 60°F.

55 picaro  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:02:47pm

Well, I'm off to a GOP Christmas party.

57 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:03:54pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Who? Who is this person?

Michael Steele.

58 wiffersnapper  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:03:56pm

Glad to see Joe and Charles think the same way I do!

59 ivrydov  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:03pm

Joe the Plumber saw them both up close and got to talk to them so that makes his observations unique.

McCain was up against it and I don't think anyone could have done better. The economy basically collapsed and it was easy for the other side to blame Bush. He was being outspent something like 9 to 1. He had the MSM against him, they participated in the most despicable smear job on a candidate ever, against Sarah. There was an unconscious wish among many to see a black candidate, any black candidate, elected in the light of US history
As it turned out, backing that $700 billion giveaway stripped him of any chance of distinguishing himself from the other guy. At that point he had to be creative and he wasn't. Game over.

60 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:30pm

I'm appalled too - that Sarah Palin had larger stones than McCain. McCain is so middle of the road he is damn near democrat. Yet, he was no match for The One™

61 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:45pm

I voted against Obama before I voted for McCain.

62 itellu3times  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:46pm

re: #46 Noam Sayin'

Think you missed the point.

Well, not for the first time, that.

Reminds me of a spam from the other day, "Never be flaccid again!"

Never? Oy.

63 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:49pm

re: #57 VegasRick

Michael Steele.

I need to learn more about him, but from what I've seen so far, I like him.

64 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:04:49pm

re: #52 lawhawk

Mitt's going to run into problems going forward, especially with the anti-Mormon backlash resulting from Prop 8 in CA. That's not going to make him many friends among moderates and independents.

As for others, I think Rudy's going to be passed by in 2012 - this was his shot. There's got to be some fresh blood and someone has to pick up the reins of the GOP. Maybe it's JC Watts. Could be Jindal (though I know Charles would dismiss him because of the ID in school fiasco).

I'd be curious to see who shows up to CPAC and gives a barnburner that sets forth a policy platform and lays out a strategy of conservatism to move forward. Navel gazing isn't going to get it done.

It also means starting the ground game for 2010 now and working to deal with winning back Congress in increments. Start with the House in 2010, and then try for the Senate in 2012 along with the WH.

I've long thought Watts could have been our first black president. I was, however, disappointed in his remarks about Obama. Something to the effect that he was excited to see a black candidate get so far. Reading between the lines I got the impression that he would probably vote for B.O. based on race. He never said that, but it's what I inferred from his comments. Disappointing...

65 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:13pm
66 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:16pm

re: #62 itellu3times

lol

67 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:20pm

re: #57 VegasRick

Michael Steele.

Not a bad pick, not bad at all. Wonder if he'd consider it?

68 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:23pm

re: #60 Racer X

I'm appalled too - that Sarah Palin had larger stones than McCain. McCain is so middle of the road he is damn near democrat. Yet, he was no match for The One™

When you're in the middle of the road, you get run-over.

69 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:34pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

That's what Obama said a few years ago. I don't believe anything any of these politicians say.

70 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:42pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

I need to learn more about him, but from what I've seen so far, I like him.

I like him a lot.

71 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:05:46pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

Louisiana Governor Jindal Will Not Run For US President In 2012

I seem to recall a junior Senator from Illinois saying roughly the same thing a while back. He won the 2008 Presidential elections in November. Barack Obama.

Politicians lie. Or they don't show all their cards. Or, they'll say that they changed their minds. Obama did in a hurry.

Jindal may simply change his mind and see that the time (and the field of GOPers) is right for him to make a run. He'll have a full term as Governor under his belt, and we'll see what he can do to improve the situation in the Bayou.

72 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:06:29pm

We could have run Ronald Reagan and lost due to the meltdown.

73 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:06:57pm

re: #71 lawhawk

I agree, I just thought I'd add it to the discussion. IMO, he's a sure loser and would guarantee another 4 years for 0bama.

74 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:03pm

re: #67 Hobbes

Not a bad pick, not bad at all. Wonder if he'd consider it?

He is looking to run the Repub party right now. I'll get you the link if you want.

75 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:10pm

re: #62 itellu3times

Okay...I almost spewed my drink on that one. Up-ding!

I'm reminded of the laxative that says, "Works while you sleep." I don't want that.

76 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:15pm

Can you believe this shit?!?

No protection= slaughter that is your own fault
Protection=lives saved. . .

Jews should choose death?

77 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:07:40pm

re: #71 lawhawk

Bill Richardson also said he wouldn't run.

78 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:03pm

re: #72 Rancher

We could have run Ronald Reagan and lost due to the meltdown.

It was a perfect storm. Untouchable opponent, media bias, economy, blame Bush, gas prices.

79 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:15pm

Wow. I must say that I'm surprised to hear that Charles endorsed Romney. I did not know that.

80 maddogg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:32pm

It's over. 'nuff said. At least on my part.

81 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:08:57pm
82 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:06pm

re: #77 Rancher

Bill Richardson also said he wouldn't run.

Bill "Diablo" Richardson didn't run. He walked.

83 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:22pm

re: #79 Lincolntf

Wow. I must say that I'm surprised to hear that Charles endorsed Romney. I did not know that.

Well, he did say

when I endorsed the only remaining alternative, Mitt Romney

which is how I think it went down for a lot of us.

84 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:41pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

I hope not.

85 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:09:54pm

re: #82 VegasRick

Bill "Diablo" Richardson didn't run. He walked.

Thought he was viable. . until his pipeline idea. . .

86 Dave the.....  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:26pm

Charles and Joe-the-Plumber just described the feelings of 70% of those who aren't tied to the Democrat party.

87 LGoPs  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:37pm

re: #60 Racer X

I'm appalled too - that Sarah Palin had larger stones than McCain. McCain is so middle of the road he is damn near democrat. Yet, he was no match for The One™

Why vote for a near democrat when you can have the real thing. Some republicans - the rinos - will never learn.

88 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:41pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

Of course he is, he's a politician. They all lie. Some do it better than others. Clinton even got open admiration for his skill at it.

89 bryantms  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:10:56pm

re: #49 Sharmuta

Who? Who is this person?

I don't know yet...hopefully somebody that catches on so they don't have the inexperience thing going, but someone who gets back to what really matters. Someone fresh that sheds this feeling of angst towards the current president and the current Republican party. Someone new...

90 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:13pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

Pssshaa!

He's a politician.

They all lie.

91 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:33pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

I disagree. Most of the moderates I spoke to before the election had already decided to go with the "American-Idol" flow and were definitely going to vote for Obama, whether they knew it or not. The primary-season posturing was their exit strategy from common sense, with the big O as the ultimate socially acceptable goal.

92 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:40pm

re: #82 VegasRick

Bill "Diablo" Richardson didn't run. He walked.

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

93 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:41pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

I'm going to stick up for Rudy here, because I spoke with a few moderates and with some liberals who were excited about him during the primaries. I think Rudy would have had the broadest appeal to the moderate and independent voters of any of our candidates.

I agree with you, but I found a lot of "so-cons" who also would have preferred Rudy to McCain.

94 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:56pm

re: #59 ivrydov

Joe the Plumber saw them both up close and got to talk to them so that makes his observations unique.

McCain was up against it and I don't think anyone could have done better. The economy basically collapsed and it was easy for the other side to blame Bush. He was being outspent something like 9 to 1. He had the MSM against him, they participated in the most despicable smear job on a candidate ever, against Sarah. There was an unconscious wish among many to see a black candidate, any black candidate, elected in the light of US history
As it turned out, backing that $700 billion giveaway stripped him of any chance of distinguishing himself from the other guy. At that point he had to be creative and he wasn't. Game over.

Some excellent points ID. This election was just weird, the weakest candidates were the nominees. I strongly suspect like some others that Obama was just testing the waters with this election and that he never expected to win this thing on his first try. The media's interference with this election was crucial to Obama's victory.

95 Boxy_brown  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:11:56pm

Et tu, Joe the Plumber?

96 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:12:40pm

re: #81 Charles

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. The msm will continue to push him on us to help create a "grassroots" desire for his candidacy in which he'll be "compelled" to give the people their wish.

97 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:13:05pm

re: #87 LGoPs

Why vote for a near democrat when you can have the real thing. Some republicans - the rinos - will never learn.

Every election is a vote for the smarterer idiot.

98 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:13:22pm

re: #92 Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

Me too. He was great in one debate, then fell asleep.

99 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:20pm

re: #71 lawhawk

I seem to recall a junior Senator from Illinois saying roughly the same thing a while back. He won the 2008 Presidential elections in November. Barack Obama.

Politicians lie. Or they don't show all their cards. Or, they'll say that they changed their minds. Obama did in a hurry.

Jindal may simply change his mind and see that the time (and the field of GOPers) is right for him to make a run. He'll have a full term as Governor under his belt, and we'll see what he can do to improve the situation in the Bayou.

Jindal thus far is mostly appearances, little substance.

100 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:22pm

re: #97 Racer X

Every election is a vote for the smarterer idiot.

Yep, lesser of the anvils.

101 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:29pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. The msm will continue to push him on us to help create a "grassroots" desire for his candidacy in which he'll be "compelled" to give the people their wish.

Indeed, my Lizard friend. We were force-fed McCain, too, IMHO.

102 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:35pm

re: #11 Russkilitlover

There's no "probably" about it. The only question is how bad will he actually be? We've still not recovered from the Legacy of Jimmy Carter. we may not recover from Obama in my lifetime.

103 Dave the.....  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:41pm

Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

I recall the interview of Big Fred. You could tell that he had about a dozen other things he'd rather be doing then giving this interview. His heart just wasn't into campaigning.

104 LGoPs  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:14:55pm

re: #88 Hobbes

Of course he is, he's a politician. They all lie. Some do it better than others. Clinton even got open admiration for his skill at it.

You're right.....I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for raising my blood pressure. There actually were people that liked the way he lied.......I remember being apoplectic about it, saying if a 5 year old pulled that shit I'd of smacked him and sent him off to bed without dinner. Everybody else just lapped it up........still shaking my head over it.

105 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:15:54pm

New Monk episodes in 30 days

106 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:08pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right. The msm will continue to push him on us to help create a "grassroots" desire for his candidacy in which he'll be "compelled" to give the people their wish.

I wouldn't be bothered too much voting for Jindal but I don't think he could beat Obama in a national election. And while I don't care about his creationist leanings, the MSM would tear him apart.

107 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:16pm

I just scrolled up a bit.
Romney was my Governor in MA. He was the last man standing after the one-Party cesspool hit critical mass. He left the State, wisely, and MA has been circling the bowl ever since. Romney is (in my jaded and oft disillusioned view, I'm no naif) an honest, hard-working, demonstrably competent politician. Such people are rare.

108 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:34pm

re: #92 Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

Thompson was the deciding vote in the Senate to NOT impeach Clinton. IIRC

109 blangwort  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:54pm

re: #57 VegasRick

I wish Mike Steele would have won that election for Maryland Senator. At present, the only claim he has to office is that he was the Republican Lieutenant Governor for Maryland once. If he does well as head of the GOP, I think he might make something of himself, though I really think he needs more time in the trenches before he runs for the office.

110 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:16:55pm

re: #106 Sleepyone

I wouldn't be bothered too much voting for Jindal but I don't think he could beat Obama in a national election. And while I don't care about his creationist leanings, the MSM would tear him apart.

But then again, I'd vote for an old shoe over any Democrat.

111 ornery elephant  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:17:34pm

I'm not feeling too confident about the mid terms in 2010 but I think Conservatives CAN make some gains, but a lot depends on who starts to lead the Republicans about that same time. From a Presidential candidate standpoint, I think the following tickets could really rally the base:

Duncan Hunter/Jindahl

Mitt Romney/Palin

112 VegasRick  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:18:22pm

re: #109 blangwort

I wish Mike Steele would have won that election for Maryland Senator. At present, the only claim he has to office is that he was the Republican Lieutenant Governor for Maryland once. If he does well as head of the GOP, I think he might make something of himself, though I really think he needs more time in the trenches before he runs for the office.

I agree, running the GOP is a good start and I think he will do a great job.

113 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:18:45pm

And I agree, the good thing about the Obama win is that McCain won't be president.

Didn't he essentially campaign for Obama?

Palin/Fitzgerald 2012

114 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:15pm

We have to straighten out Congress. We can start that in 2 years. I say get rid of all of them. How about some new blood that has not been bought by special interests.

115 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:25pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

Sorry- any ticket that includes Jindal is going to lose.

116 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:40pm

re: #114 yah

We have to straighten out Congress. We can start that in 2 years. I say get rid of all of them. How about some new blood that has not been bought by special interests.

I'm all for cleaning house. The whole lot of 'em.

117 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:46pm

re: #98 VegasRick

To prove how out-of-step I am, I think one of Fred Thompson's strengths was that he didn't subscribe to the notion that the longest campaign is the best campaign. He said what his beliefs were and I agreed with him. What else was there to say? Unfortunately, that doesn't sell these days.

118 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:19:57pm
119 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:11pm

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

120 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:15pm

If Bobby Jindal is the Republican nominee in 2012, I'll be voting Democrat.

I will not vote for that man.

121 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:34pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

Mitt Romney/Palin

Nice.

122 taejohndo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:37pm

re: #105 Harry Tuttle

New Monk episodes in 30 days

It's a blessing...and a curse...

123 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:43pm

re: #119 bellamags

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

By firing Fitzgerald, yes.

124 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:44pm

re: #110 Sleepyone

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.
Playing right into the hands of the MSM every time we artificially magnify the scope of the Religious Right.
Oh well, eventually reality will settle in on both the "pro's" and the "anti's" and people can begin discussing things that really matter.

125 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:20:55pm

re: #104 LGoPs

LOL

126 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:17pm

re: #120 Charles

If Bobby Jindal is the Republican nominee in 2012, I'll be voting Democrat.

I will not vote for that man.

Bummer.

127 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:32pm

re: #108 Racer X

No. Clinton was impeached by the House. The Senate refused to convict him and remove him from office. It wasn't even close. Basically the Senate said "So what?", because no one really disputed the charges. It was just another example of the Democrats playing with their own special rules.

128 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:44pm

re: #103 Dave the.....

Rancher

I recall the interview of Big Fred. You could tell that he had about a dozen other things he'd rather be doing then giving this interview. His heart just wasn't into campaigning.

In my opinion, Americans respond to a straight-shooter (like Fred or Sarah), not a lawyer who parses every sentence (like O'bama) or a moderate "I'll-not-disparage-my Democrat-brothers" like McCain.

Winning 2012 Strategy: Gloves-off conservatism--defend Capitalism, and accept your nationality (U.S. of A.) without apology.

129 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:53pm

re: #107 Lincolntf

after the one-Party cesspool hit critical mass.

Nicely said. Can you imagine a one party cesspool after 30 years or so? Hello Saddam's henchmen and Castro Prisons Inc.

130 jorline  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:21:57pm

I see "Joe the Plumber" is now "Joe The Bus Driver". If he was so appalled by McCain he should have removed himself from the limelight?
Joe had his 15 minutes, time to move on.

131 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:22:28pm

re: #111 ornery elephant
I could sure go for Duncan Hunter - Jindal I'm not so sure.

132 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:22:42pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.

I call bullshit, period.

133 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:23:33pm

re: #119 bellamags

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

Certainly he would. What remains to be seen is whether he'll promote Fitzgerald to AG just to get him out of the Illinois clean-up business before his name becomes more prominent. He said he would leave him in Illinois, but who knows...?

134 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:23:49pm

Jindal talked soft on creationism because he's in Louisiana. Put him in a national race and he'd sing a different tune. Jindal is a smart guy. With the right handler, he'll go far. Probably a Cabinet position. Not the White House.

But then, I thought Americans would drag McCain into the WH. So you're better off hitting me up for advice about statistical multiplexing, or something similarly straightforward.

135 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:23:59pm
136 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:03pm

re: #130 jorline

Joe was approached in his own backyard by a roving campaign appearance featuring the President-elect. He's hardly a limelight hog. People asked for his opinion, and continue to, so he gives it to them. Good for him.

137 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:09pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

Mitt Romney/Palin

I'm not so confident that Romney could have beaten Obama but I sure he was president-elect right now.

138 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:13pm

whoever turns up as the GoP Redeemer better start showing us some mojo within the next year or so...it will not be Jindal...I with Duncan Hunter were more...ah...dynamic

139 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:25pm

re: #128 SlartyBartfast

I'll look for anyone that isn't a lawyer.
Shouldn't there be a conflict of interest with lawyers doing legislation?

140 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:31pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Excuse me, but what is conservative about pushing religious beliefs into public school science classrooms?

141 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:38pm

re: #111 ornery elephant

I'm not feeling too confident about the mid terms in 2010 but I think Conservatives CAN make some gains, but a lot depends on who starts to lead the Republicans about that same time. From a Presidential candidate standpoint, I think the following tickets could really rally the base:

Duncan Hunter/Jindahl

Mitt Romney/Palin

The problem with Republican's is they are not showing good leadership and have not fought the Democrats for the lies that Bush and McCain caused the financial crises instead of the facts that the Democrats under Clinton passed the laws that set up Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae for activity that would be considered criminal by most Americans. It is time to clean house and the Republicans are not up to the task. Half of our leaders in government are crooks and do not have Americans interest at heart.

142 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:50pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.

And by the way, what the fuck do you mean by "who claim to be conservatives?"

Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative.

You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

143 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:51pm

re: #124 Lincolntf

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be.
Playing right into the hands of the MSM every time we artificially magnify the scope of the Religious Right.
Oh well, eventually reality will settle in on both the "pro's" and the "anti's" and people can begin discussing things that really matter.

Ignorance is not a winning strategy.

144 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:52pm

And I did put an Iowahawk 'I am Joe The Plumber' sticker on my Dodge Ram in the weeks before the election.

Did get a lot of positive nods from peeps on the road. One guy in a van passed my once going north on 15 in central PA and on the back of his van was a JTP bumper sticker so I gave him a wave and I saw him give me a thumbs up ahead of me. Made me smile.

145 ornery elephant  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:24:56pm

re: #131 yah

I'm not sure if Jindal will be ready by 2012 even for the VP role but I think Hunter would do well with a younger VP - Jindal is going to be judged on how he handles Louisiana but he's certainly a huge rising star.

Another guy I like is Jim DeMint but I'm not sure if he would even be interested in moving up.

146 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:01pm

re: #118 taxfreekiller

Yes, I hope all these current politicians go to the bottom.
Wait, they are the bottom. Geez, and we let these people run this country and control much of our life.

147 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:24pm

I would love to see a candidate come up from the House myself

148 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:26pm

re: #137 Sleepyone

I'm not so confident that Romney could have beaten Obama but I sure wish he was president-elect right now.

PIMF

149 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:25:33pm

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

150 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:26:05pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

As much as I loved Rudy's policies he could not have won a general election. He had too many skeletons in his closet; Ex wives, affairs and his bestest friend is a Catholic priest involved in molesting children. He also didn't pass the purity tests on social conservatism. I love the guy but he just isn't going to make it.

151 Paul  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:26:26pm

Well, McCain appalled me too, but Obama flat out terrified me. And we're stuck with him for four freakin' years....unless he's stepped into some deep Blagojevich poop.

Right now, our best hope are the next Congressional elections.

152 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:26:50pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Sad, but I guess true =/

153 LGoPs  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:04pm

I think the Republicans need to understand a few basics:
1) Understand that they're operating in Injun' country, every day, all the time. They have no friends in the media and everything they do will be looked at under a microscope.
2) They need to close ranks and try to speak with one voice as much as possible. The media will try mightily to diffuse their message so this is especially important.
3) They need to pick a few simple messages and hammer them home. The average citizen doesn't have the bandwidth or the attention span to follow esoteric, nuanced policy discussions. Keep it simple stoopid - KISS.
4) Focus those messages and their supporting arguments on the basic common sense that underlies most conservative principles. I can't believe all of the American people have lost their common sense. It's just been obfuscated by the liberals and the media.
5) Figure out a way to tailor those thoughts into bumper sticker size pieces so the message can be hammered home.

154 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:13pm

re: #137 Sleepyone

I'm not sure anyone could have beaten Obama with all the advantages he had. But McCain's unilateral surrender on the fund-raising front surely helped Obama to win.

155 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:13pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

As much as I loved Rudy's policies he could not have won a general election. He had too many skeletons in his closet; Ex wives, affairs and his bestest friend is a Catholic priest involved in molesting children. He also didn't pass the purity tests on social conservatism. I love the guy but he just isn't going to make it.

Then how come the Republicans can't promote their morally suspected candidates as well as the Democrats?

We have to get with the program.
/

156 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:35pm
157 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:35pm

re: #140 Sharmuta

Excuse me, but what is conservative about pushing religious beliefs into public school science classrooms?

Don't forget these would be government sponsored religious beliefs. Determined by local school boards (governmental entities).

158 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:27:43pm

BTW, I probably won't vote for Palin. Nominate her at your own risk.
/I don't bluff.

159 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:01pm

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

I'm trying to figure out how a philosophy of smaller government (you know- conservatism) means we push religion in science classes.

160 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:18pm

re: #16 lawhawk

You weren't wrong, and Joe Wurzelbacher certainly wasn't alone in thinking that McCain wasn't up to the task of leading the GOP to win (if it was possible at all).

When McCain clinched the nomination, Ann Coulter said Hillary would be a 4-year disaster, but McCain would be a 20-year disaster for the GOP.

161 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:28pm

Well, Americans voted in a guy with politics and style. Who in the GOP has politics and style? That seems to be what wins elections. Pretty soon we'll just flip coins. After all, One World Government is only a century or so off. By then, no voting will matter very much.

162 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:34pm

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

And by the way, what the fuck do you mean by "who claim to be conservatives?"

Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative.

You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

Walter -- always making me smile! (in a good way)

163 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:53pm

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

Then how come the Republicans can't promote their morally suspected candidates as well as the Democrats?

We have to get with the program.
/

exactly...quit taking the MSN (my dire enemy) for granted and pound them with facts and integrity...

164 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:57pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

I doubt very seriously that it will come down to your vote, no matter who you vote for.

165 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:28:58pm

re: #159 Sharmuta

I'm trying to figure out how a philosophy of smaller government (you know- conservatism) means we push religion in science classes.

Charles said...

re: #149 Charles

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

I suspect he is also a troll, since he can't seem to answer questions put to him.

166 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:29:15pm
167 avspatti  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:29:25pm

About Jindal . . . what other negatives does he have than the ID issue? How is that different from Romney's Mormon problem? There will always be negatives, right. Just look who we have now.

168 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:29:45pm

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

Then how come the Republicans can't promote their morally suspected candidates as well as the Democrats?


Because the MSM won't cover for Republicans. It's silly to expect them to. Also the Republican farm team is very weak; Huckabee, Jindal and Palin? That's just plain insanity.

169 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:05pm

re: #154 Iron Fist

I'm not sure anyone could have beaten Obama with all the advantages he had. But McCain's unilateral surrender on the fund-raising front surely helped Obama to win.

I fear you are correct on both counts. Once Obama had the momentum it was all McCain could do to choke on the dust (not entirely his fault I think).

170 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:10pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

Call it whatever you like.
I'm a lifelong Republican, a Catholic, a veteran, a resident of both MA and NC and I have NEVER heard Creationism addressed at any of the hundreds of meetings those affiliations inevitably entail. It's an Internet issue only. Parsing Jindal, etc. is as pointless as the anti-Rev. Wright silliness.
If you think you know Jindal's views, and don't like them, then vote against him. But if you honestly believe that Jindal doesn't know that petroleum was created by organic residue left behind hundreds of millions of years ago, then you have a major disconnect in your faith/reason switching area.

171 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:35pm

re: #164 Iron Fist

Agreed, my vote is pretty much worthless. I'll waste it as I see fit.

172 tgibson1962  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:36pm

The last time I voted "for" a Repub was Reagan in 1984. Otherwise, it was the lesser of two evils.

173 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:42pm
The flaws and weaknesses of democratic government are easy to see. They can be demonstrated by obvious facts, while the salutary influence of democratic government is exerted in an imperceptible, not to say occult manner. Its defects are striking at first glance but its virtues reveal themselves only over the long run.

Like a kid in a candy store with copy of de Tocqueville...

174 Alouette  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:54pm
175 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:55pm

re: #119 bellamags

Would Obama have had the power to tell the feds to lay off Blagojevich if the investigation had continued after Obama took office?

Haar! Evening Bella, how are you doing mate? I believe the FBI is under the department of justice and the AG. I personally know that the rank and file FBI agents hate political corruption more than anything and are constantly looking for it when they investigate other crimes. They catch a perp and the first thing they try to do is find out if has any political friends that they can get them to inform on for a lesser or dropped charges...

176 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:30:58pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

It's an Internet issue only.

Ever heard of Louisiana?

177 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:16pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Because the MSM won't cover for Republicans. It's silly to expect them to. Also the Republican farm team is very weak; Huckabee, Jindal and Palin? That's just plain insanity.

I would argue the democrat's bench is likewise weak if 0bama can do nothing but pick clintonites to his cabinet.

178 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:19pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

Agreed, my vote is pretty much worthless. I'll waste it as I see fit.

ha!...good one you old patriot

179 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:30pm

re: #107 Lincolntf

I just scrolled up a bit.
Romney was my Governor in MA. He was the last man standing after the one-Party cesspool hit critical mass. He left the State, wisely, and MA has been circling the bowl ever since. Romney is (in my jaded and oft disillusioned view, I'm no naif) an honest, hard-working, demonstrably competent politician. Such people are rare.

Good Evening, everyone.
AS a resident of Massachusetts, I wholeheartedly agree with Lincolntf. With one itty bitty exception that scares me... the mandatory health insurance legislation Governor Romney signed. It forces every citizen of the state to purchase insurance, or face nasty monthly fines. Understand that he was only one of a small handful of republicans holding elected office in this state, under 20. I don't know why he did not stand firmly against that one.

180 Opinionated  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:47pm

What am I missing?

Joe was appalled.

Maybe he can clue us in on what so appalled him. If it's there I don't see it anywhere.

Are we to damn McCain just because Joe says he was appalled.

Paulson presented the bailout to Congress as the only preventative action to stop the complete meltdown of the financial system. Did Paulson lie? Maybe.

But I can't blame any politician who voted in a way they were led to believe was immediately critical for the economy to survive another day.

181 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:31:47pm
182 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:45pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

Because the MSM won't cover for Republicans. It's silly to expect them to. Also the Republican farm team is very weak; Huckabee, Jindal and Palin? That's just plain insanity.

Huckabee is actually in the lead according to some polls.

If he's the GOP nominee in 2012, the Democrats will be on Easy Street.

183 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:46pm

If anyone lacks the ability to read, have a reading buddy help you.
I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

184 SFGoth  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:49pm

Can someone say whether states can force parties to allow cross-over primary voting? If not, no one but the GOP to blame for McCain.

185 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:32:53pm

re: #149 Charles

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

Did not know that.

186 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:13pm

re: #177 Sharmuta

I would argue the democrat's bench is likewise weak if 0bama can do nothing but pick clintonites to his cabinet.

I think that's a weakness on O'bama's part...there are probably many Dems qualified for cabinet posts. BHO hasn't been in Washington long enough to learn their names.

187 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:25pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

BTW, I probably won't vote for Palin. Nominate her at your own risk.
/I don't bluff.

You didn't vote last time either so.....

188 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:37pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

My only issue with you is...

What the fuck do you mean by "who claim to be conservatives?" Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative. You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

Answer me that!

189 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:39pm

re: #153 LGoPs
I nominate LGoPs 2012 Presidential Campaign Manager.

190 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:33:53pm

In my mind Sarah Palin was the only candidate to talk straight to the American people; I recall her upbraiding ordinary Americans about the financial crisis, saying that many of us had not made prudent decisions.

I hope with all my heart she is the next president.

191 solomonpanting  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:34:32pm

And lost in the shuffle, at least for the article's writer:

Asked why he didn’t leave McCain’s campaign if he was “appalled” by the candidate, Wurzelbacher said, “honestly, because the thought of Barack Obama as president scares me even more.”

192 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:34:39pm

re: #186 SlartyBartfast

I think that's a weakness on O'bama's part...there are probably many Dems qualified for cabinet posts. BHO hasn't been in Washington long enough to learn their names.

Touché.

193 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:34:50pm

re: #169 Sleepyone

I fear you are correct on both counts. Once Obama had the momentum it was all McCain could do to choke on the dust (not entirely his fault I think).

Disagree, the election was close by all rights Obama should have been 30 points ahead. It came down to a few million votes.

Had McCain been agressive on things like Wright and pushing hard against the bailout and laying blame where it belonged, and unleashing Palin who knows...

McCain in many ways is to blame for Obama winning. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like him to begin with.

194 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:06pm

My vote is simple for the foreseeable future. I will not ever vote democrat again after what they did to our troops during the Iraq war.

195 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:08pm
196 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:09pm

re: #179 CapeCoddah

Doing something to keep the moonbats from doing something worse? Dunno. Just guessing and I've seen legislation like that happen before.

197 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:10pm

re: #182 Charles

Huckabee is actually in the lead according to some polls.

If he's the GOP nominee in 2012, the Democrats will be on Easy Street.

Wow. I hadn't heard that. Good grief! We (Republicans) are doomed.

For some reason that man irritates the hell out of me. I can't put my finger on why but he seems so disingenuous to me.

198 albusteve  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:15pm

re: #190 Ojoe

In my mind Sarah Palin was the only candidate to talk straight to the American people; I recall her upbraiding ordinary Americans about the financial crisis, saying that many of us had not made prudent decisions.

I hope with all my heart she is the next president.

we could do worse...she has four years to build up her rep

199 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:18pm

It was the lesser of two weevils. Given the current circumstances of EVERYTHING, it's hard to tell who the real loser was.

200 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:35:28pm

re: #183 Lincolntf

If anyone lacks the ability to read, have a reading buddy help you.
I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

201 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:18pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Re: "who claim to be conservatives", I say to Lincolntf; "Down with labels", except for maybe "Human".

202 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:29pm

re: #183 Lincolntf

If anyone lacks the ability to read, have a reading buddy help you.
I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

Hey buddy, personally I think you're crazy. Do you want use to pull up all your "creationist" positive posts.

You're all over the board with your posts and opinions. Either you are sitting at you computer in different stages of drunk or you have some sort of problem remembering what you say one day to the other.

203 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:29pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

But if you honestly believe that Jindal doesn't know that petroleum was created by organic residue left behind hundreds of millions of years ago, then you have a major disconnect in your faith/reason switching area.

I said the same thing about Sarah Palin. It's hard to be the governor of an oil-producing state -- Alaska and Louisiana included -- and disbelieve that petroleum is a fossil fuel of provenance from organisms that died millions of years before Young Earth Creationists date Earth's beginning.

204 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:36:41pm

re: #170 Lincolntf

Call it whatever you like.
I'm a lifelong Republican, a Catholic, a veteran, a resident of both MA and NC and I have NEVER heard Creationism addressed at any of the hundreds of meetings those affiliations inevitably entail. It's an Internet issue only. Parsing Jindal, etc. is as pointless as the anti-Rev. Wright silliness.
If you think you know Jindal's views, and don't like them, then vote against him. But if you honestly believe that Jindal doesn't know that petroleum was created by organic residue left behind hundreds of millions of years ago, then you have a major disconnect in your faith/reason switching area.

Jindal signed into a law a bill that will allow the ID / creationist agenda to flourish in Louisiana schools.

The one I've linked to is a duplicate of the one signed.

205 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:05pm

re: #175 LoFlyer

Haar! Evening Bella, how are you doing mate? I believe the FBI is under the department of justice and the AG. I personally know that the rank and file FBI agents hate political corruption more than anything and are constantly looking for it when they investigate other crimes. They catch a perp and the first thing they try to do is find out if has any political friends that they can get them to inform on for a lesser or dropped charges...

They must hate it, they have been on a tear in Boston for the last few months.
Unfortunately, they would just have to throw nets over every elected official in the state to do much good. We need another field office here!

206 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:14pm

re: #194 Noam Sayin'

They also voted as a party against the 13th amendment.

207 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:24pm

re: #190 Ojoe

In my mind Sarah Palin was the only candidate to talk straight to the American people; I recall her upbraiding ordinary Americans about the financial crisis, saying that many of us had not made prudent decisions.

I hope with all my heart she is the next president.

Democrats: "Rights! Rights! Rights! Personal Responsibility? Wha..?"
Republicans: "Yeah, what they said."

208 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:36pm

re: #202 Walter L. Newton

Hey buddy, personally I think you're crazy. Do you want use to pull up all your "creationist" positive posts.

You're all over the board with your posts and opinions. Either you are sitting at you computer in different stages of drunk or you have some sort of problem remembering what you say one day to the other.

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

Looks like Charles beat us to it.

209 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:38pm

re: #182 Charles

8 years of Chairman Obama. Wheeee!

210 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:37:48pm

re: #185 CapeCoddah

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact.

"A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day.
That's such a laugher.

211 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:13pm

re: #180 Opinionated


Are we to damn McCain just because Joe says he was appalled.

I was appalled long before Joe the Plumber ever came along.

212 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:14pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

BTW, I probably won't vote for Palin. Nominate her at your own risk.
/I don't bluff.

What exactly is your problem with Palin?

213 witness  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:33pm

In the immortal words of Howard Beale: "Woe's us, we're in a whole lot of trouble!"

214 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:38:44pm

re: #193 Harry Tuttle

Disagree, the election was close by all rights Obama should have been 30 points ahead. It came down to a few million votes.

Had McCain been agressive on things like Wright and pushing hard against the bailout and laying blame where it belonged, and unleashing Palin who knows...

McCain in many ways is to blame for Obama winning. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like him to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, McCain is in many (most, probably) ways to blame for losing. But the MSM being in Obama's pocket certainly helped. That along with the voter's uninformed decision-making process.

215 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:00pm

re: #187 Racer X

Nope, I sat out due to two unqualified tickets. I feel I did the right thing and I'll do it again.

216 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:45pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact. "A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day. That's such a laugher.

Keep laughing smart ass, why won't you answer my question...

What the fuck do you mean by "anti-creationist who claim to be conservatives?" Are you saying a person who is anti-creation cannot be a true conservative. You don't mean that, do you? Don't even dare to suggest that.

217 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:51pm

re: #196 Van Helsing

Doing something to keep the moonbats from doing something worse? Dunno. Just guessing and I've seen legislation like that happen before.

Where have you seen it? It was the first such legislation made law in any state.

218 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:53pm

I like governors as POTUS candidates. Here's the GOP line-up:

Riley*
Palin
Schwarzenegger*
Rell
Crist
Perdue*
Lingle*
Otter
Daniels
Jindal
Pawlenty
Barbour*
Blunt (retiring)
Heineman
Gibbons
Hoeven
Carcieri*
Sanford*
Rounds*
Perry
Huntsman
Douglas
Fortuno & Camacho (heh)

* term up in 2010 (term limits)

Any of these viable?

219 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:39:58pm
220 reine.de.tout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:15pm

re: #204 reine.de.tout

Jindal signed into a law a bill that will allow the ID / creationist agenda to flourish in Louisiana schools.

The one I've linked to is a duplicate of the one signed.

Here is the one Jindal signed.

221 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:15pm

Did none of you "get" the bear-to-whale reference? Still?
Seriously, read a couple of Darwin's books before you declare yourselves his defenders.

222 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:18pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Why don't you answer Walter's No. 188?

223 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:45pm

re: #175 LoFlyer

Hey there LoFlyer! I just thought the timing of the whole thing was funny. I thought maybe they made their move now before the zero took office to make sure they could act freely without someone mucking it up.

224 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:47pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact. "A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day. That's such a laugher.

You have already contradicted yourself in this single thread. Are you for real?

225 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:40:48pm

re: #202 Walter L. Newton

Are you still eating M&M's?

226 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:01pm

re: #218 godfrey

I like governors as POTUS candidates. Here's the GOP line-up:

Riley*
Palin
Schwarzenegger*
Rell
Crist
Perdue*
Lingle*
Otter
Daniels
Jindal
Pawlenty
Barbour*
Blunt (retiring)
Heineman
Gibbons
Hoeven
Carcieri*
Sanford*
Rounds*
Perry
Huntsman
Douglas
Fortuno & Camacho (heh)

* term up in 2010 (term limits)

Any of these viable?

Don't know about all of them but Arnold certainly isn't due to his being a naturalized citizen.

227 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:05pm

re: #221 Lincolntf

Did none of you "get" the bear-to-whale reference? Still?
Seriously, read a couple of Darwin's books before you declare yourselves his defenders.

That didn't take long.

228 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:22pm

re: #218 godfrey

Ahnold, born in Austria, can't be POTUS.

"I will pump up Sacramento."

— Early Ahnold campaign promise.

Too much fun.

229 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:34pm

re: #206 Ojoe

They also voted as a party against the 13th amendment.

So, they have a history of being bastard-people...

230 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:43pm

Here's what I said back on the evening of the Michigan primary last January.

I voted for Mitt mostly just to block McCain.

But maybe the most interesting thing about today's election here was on the Democratic side where the rift between her campaign and the African American voter bloc split wide open.

Without the African American vote she is done like a Tyson chicken dinner.

231 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:41:56pm

re: #206 Ojoe

They also voted as a party against the 13th amendment.

This is what befuddles me - how the party of Slavery, KKK, Jim Crow and all other aspects of segregation became the 'friend' of the Black man.

Seriously, I don't get it and conservatives need to find a way to get the kind of PR that causes public amnesia of crap like Senator Byrd's early life.

232 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:12pm

re: #219 taxfreekiller

1,000 updings.

Peace is maintained by strength not idealism.

233 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:15pm

re: #224 Walter L. Newton

You have already contradicted yourself in this single thread. Are you for real?

Internet posters never lie.

234 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:54pm

re: #229 Noam Sayin'

Yes they have.

Look up "Copperhead".

235 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:42:56pm

Sharmuta, you still here?

236 Sleepyone  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:00pm

re: #231 Van Helsing

This is what befuddles me - how the party of Slavery, KKK, Jim Crow and all other aspects of segregation became the 'friend' of the Black man.

Seriously, I don't get it and conservatives need to find a way to get the kind of PR that causes public amnesia of crap like Senator Byrd's early life.

This has long puzzled me as well. Republicans play too nice in my opinion. They're so worried that someone won't like them.

237 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:05pm

re: #235 A Kiwi Infidel

Yes

238 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:09pm
239 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:18pm

BBL

240 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:47pm

re: #214 Sleepyone

Don't get me wrong, McCain is in many (most, probably) ways to blame for losing. But the MSM being in Obama's pocket certainly helped. That along with the voter's uninformed decision-making process.

Very very true.

Most of the people I talked with that were Obama supporters also get their news from the Daily show or Katie Couric.

Actually McCain aside the Obama win was really just anti-bush.

I intend to take vacation time to volunteer for the Palin campaign.

That is is I still have a job.

241 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:43:59pm

Would you meet me in the lounge, I have a request of you? I will go there now, and wait a couple of minutes.

Ta

242 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:44:06pm

re: #212 Neo Con since 9-11

Right now the biggest problem is her inexperience. After that she supports banning gay civil rights in the Constitution. I wouldn't support constitutional racism or antisemitism and I see no reason to support the same policies against gays. I also suspect that she's not very smart. If she writes a brilliant tome on her governmental or economic philosophies maybe I'll change my mind but until them I still see her as a dimwit. Republicans might be inticed by her simple redneck charm but I'm uderwhelmed.

243 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:44:10pm

re: #210 Lincolntf

Because to "know" that which is untrue, unfounded and "made up" for ulterior motives is similar to the Creationist ideology. So you rightly reject it. Nobody could ever truly know such a non-fact.

"A hardcore Creationist"? I teach Evolution, Charles. Pretty much every day.
That's such a laugher.

Charles, from what I have seen, does not pick random folks to attach that particular label to. I have never seen Charles post anything false of fraudulent. Quite the opposite. I have no reason to not believe what he says. I don't know you.

244 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:44:36pm

re: #225 yah

Are you still eating M&M's?

OT

I haven't had any since this past Fri. I actually did the raisin thing while in the control booth at the theatre. That helped. Bulked up on veggies and clear soups this weekend at the supermarket and got some good sales on pre-made salads.

When I was smoking, these kinds of foods satisfied me fine. Now, it seems that the only thing that satisfies me is REAL sugar.

245 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:13pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

246 Hobbes  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:14pm

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

How about quoting one to make your point, Charles. I've just scrolled through the first 200 or so posts and couldn't find one of his comments.

247 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:35pm

re: #236 Sleepyone

This has long puzzled me as well. Republicans play too nice in my opinion. They're so worried that someone won't like them.

I don't... tool! :)

248 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:40pm

re: #190 Ojoe

That will be, to a large degree, up to Obama to decide. He's coming into office at a difficult time (somewhat like Bush, without all the undermining bullshit of the outgoing Clinton Administration) There are a number of issues that will all need to be on the front-burner. If Obama can't multitask, and multitask well, he's hosed before he's even started.

If he tries to govern from the far Left, he will similarily be hosed. The country has too many problems going on for him to spend any time giving red meat to his Leftist hoards. Which will, of course, piss his base off. But he's not going to need them for four years. He may be able to piss all over his base, and still hold them in 2012. Maybe.

Of course, if the economy really is as hosed as they are saying it is, Obama will have a very rough road to being elected in 2012.

It is really too soon to begin handicapping the 2012 elections. Obama may overreach the same way Clinton did, and lose the House and Senate again. That will change everything for 2012.

249 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:45:56pm

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

I did read his comments. What I learned:

1) He is not a capital-C Creationist who believes that God created the heavens and the Earth ab initio in six 24-hour days.

2) He does believe that God was and is a Prime Mover.

3) He does not think that every word that Charles Darwin wrote was factually accurate. Darwin himself wouldn't have claimed such a thing -- only that his theory of evolutionary change through reproductive selection was and is the best explanation for the biological diversity we see around us.

4) He does not see a belief in evolution as proof of the non-existence of God, nor does he see a belief in God as proof in the non-existence of genetic evolution by reproductive selection.

250 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:46:25pm

re: #217 CapeCoddah

Sorry. I wasn't clear. Not legislation dealing with healthcare, but other things. In Arizona there were various attempts to get a weak law regarding illegals and employment passed to pre-empt or supercede the laws passed through our initiative process.

251 kafir lover  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:46:25pm

2008 marked the worst choice of presidential candidates in my (and Joe's) lifetime

252 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:46:45pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

Now, it seems that the only thing that satisfies me is REAL sugar.


If you can ween yourself off refined sugar for a week or two go ahead and eat a tangerine. It's fantastic!

253 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:47:36pm

I just don't see social issues as being very important to most voters, other than keeping your base at home on election day.

254 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:47:36pm
255 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:47:38pm

re: #234 Ojoe

Yes they have.

Look up "Copperhead".

Some habits never die, huh?

During the American Civil War (1861-1865), the Copperheads nominally favored the Union and strongly opposed the war, for which they blamed abolitionists, and they demanded immediate peace and resisted draft laws. They wanted Lincoln and the Republicans ousted from power, seeing the president as a tyrant who was destroying American republican values with his despotic and arbitrary actions.

Some Copperheads tried to persuade Union soldiers to desert. They talked of helping Confederate prisoners of war seize their camps and escape. They sometimes met with Confederate agents and took money. The Confederacy encouraged their activities whenever possible.[1] Most Democratic party leaders, however, repelled Confederate advances.

You could almost substitute "al Qaeda" for "Confederate."

256 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:00pm

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

257 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:04pm
Any of these viable?

I don't know much about most of them, but what I heard from Pawlenty was plenty. I'd vote for him v. any Democrat, including McCain.

258 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:20pm

re: #16 lawhawk

Wish I could give you 20 up-dings!

259 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:32pm

re: #249 stuiec

"3) He does not think that every word that Charles Darwin wrote was factually accurate."


Attacking Darwin as a personality and implying that 'evolutionists' support everything that he ever wrote is a hallmark of creationist argument.

260 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:36pm

re: #249 stuiec

We'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not surprised to find you defending his comments.

261 jcm  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:38pm

re: #219 taxfreekiller

Ted Turner looked into the camera and said not one word about the millions murdered with hoe's by the commies the Democrats turned loose in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. He is a dead man faking a real man.

Liberal Democrats are weak and cause others to die from their weak policies. Over and Over and Over.

Ted Turner shows a goatse brain.

"And the KGB, I think, was an honorable place to work. And it, it gave people in the former Soviet Union, a communist country, an opportunity to do something important and worthwhile."
262 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:48:59pm

re: #259 jaunte

Attacking Darwin as a personality and implying that 'evolutionists' support everything that he ever wrote is a hallmark of creationist argument.

Indeed it is.

263 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:03pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

If you can ween yourself off refined sugar for a week or two go ahead and eat a tangerine. It's fantastic!

It's "wean".

Carry on.

264 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:07pm

re: #191 solomonpanting


He articulate very well my own reasons for voting for McCain. Make no mistake, I think McCain would have been a bad President. I just don't think he'd have been as bad for the Country as Obama will be.

Not by a long shot.

265 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:22pm

re: #245 Lincolntf

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

You didn't answer my question, not at all, you said...

Yeah, the "anti-Creationists" who claim to be Conservatives are a far bigger threat to the unity of the Republican Party than the actual Creationists will ever be. Playing right into the hands of the MSM every time we artificially magnify the scope of the Religious Right. Oh well, eventually reality will settle in on both the "pro's" and the "anti's" and people can begin discussing things that really matter.

Now I will ask you again. Just because I am a anti-creationist, why do you say I "claim" to be a conservative. Can't I be both?

266 HoosierHoops  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:47pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

It's been raining all day and night...who knows?
:)

267 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:52pm

re: #24 picaro

Bravo!
*clap* *clap* *clap*

268 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:49:55pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Thank you, I don't agree with you, but that's the first honest, articulate argument against Palin I've seen. Most are simply "she's an air head" or completely misquote the governor.

269 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:01pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

Tangewean?

270 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:09pm

re: #254 taxfreekiller

cRAP,,PPPP

Wind out of the North 25 to 35 mph, 30 F. sleet/rain/snow mix

off to bed, the old cows gonna be in a bad way early morning

screw you Al Gore, 5:00 A.M. in this kind of shit would make it clear to your dumb ass

re: #54 David IV of Georgia

OT
Al Gore News Alert:
It is snowing/sleeting hard in Dallas, Texas right now.
No accumulation, the ground is still 60°F.

Overcast. No Precipitation. 31°F in Dallas (actually Garland) now.

271 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:26pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

almost

272 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:30pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

I stand corrected

273 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:37pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

OT too
My husband was in line behind a woman at Wal Mart the other night. She bought $198.00 worth of M&M's. It made me think of you. Took the cashier forever to ring up.
I thought "Man, she must of had a real smoking problem."

274 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:50:51pm

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

275 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:20pm

re: #269 jaunte

Tangewean?

fruit pun time?
orange you ready?

276 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:22pm

re: #255 Noam Sayin'

You could almost substitute "al Qaeda" for "Confederate."

You could almost gain my undying enmity.

277 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:35pm

re: #35 bravesoat

I voted for Joe Biden. Obama was tagging along [with the SEIU/FBI/Rev Wright/Freedom Fighter Ayers]

Um... Sarc tag? Please tell me there's a missing sarc tag in your statement!

278 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:39pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

Nope, I sat out due to two unqualified tickets. I feel I did the right thing and I'll do it again.

Self deleted the worst of it, but everytime you post this I remember that cowardly action that you continue to crow about I think you are a smug, fatuous asshole. . .

279 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:51:44pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

If you can ween yourself off refined sugar for a week or two go ahead and eat a tangerine. It's fantastic!

I don't know if you are up on what I have related in the past weeks, but in short, ever since I quit smoking cold-turkey on Aug. 16th, I have been shoving too much candy (M7M's) into my system and I have probably put on about 10 pounds.

And it seems NOTHING makes me feel full anymore. I could overdose on lettuce if I wanted.

280 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:52:02pm

re: #200 Charles

All they have to do is read your comments in this thread.

Charles I looked through the thread, and at comment 728 LincolnTF states
"Sadly, I think you're right. If the kind of belittling of Creationists that I see online these days were aimed at any other specific Religious belief, it would be banned as hate-speech.
I say to the "anti-'s", get over it. If you don't agree with the tenets of the faith of other people, that doesn't mean that those people are unworthy or basic respect.
I find it amazing (and disconcerting) how often I see people who claim to be representing the "rational" view of natural selection/evolution who have no clue what they're talking about. Rabid anti-Creationism is a bizarre little pocket dogma that ultimately hinders a rational education.

That said, I don't want anyone teaching Creationism as Science in any schools. I'm as convinced of the fact of "evolution" as I am of the fact of gravity. I'll willingly debate the properties of both with no personal animus, but when someone tries to convince me that billions of years worth of natural history simply didn't occur, then I tend to tune them out."

This doesn't sound "hardcore-creationist" one bit, mate!

281 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:52:38pm

re: #265 Walter L. Newton

I never claimed "you" were anything. Get over yourself.

282 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:52:53pm

re: #275 bellamags

I'll try to apple eye myself.

283 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:13pm

re: #245 Lincolntf

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

It's not his religious views that scare me. It's his willingness to open up Louisiana schools to the Muslim's creation stories.

284 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:25pm

re: #276 David IV of Georgia

You could almost gain my undying enmity.

Now I gotta go look up "enmity."

Oh...

Sorry, dude. Didn't know you were still fighting the war. ;)

285 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:29pm

re: #282 jaunte

I'll try to apple eye myself.

this is gonna be grape.

286 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:31pm

re: #278 DisturbedEma

you are a smug, fatuous asshole. .


Thanks for noticing.

287 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:33pm

re: #30 apachegunner

rancher? rustler?

Real Rancher. Rule of thumb, late night posts are Rustler. I no longer work graveyard, I'm back in the prison. Just made Sergeant BTW. :)

288 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:39pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

It's always a full moon somewhere in the solar system.

289 Gearhead  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:53pm

Riley has said he wants to get out of politics after his term is up.

I hope he reconsiders. He has accomplished a lot.

290 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:53:57pm

re: #260 Charles

We'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not surprised to find you defending his comments.

That comment puzzles me.

291 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:02pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

Thanks for noticing.

hard to miss. . .you reek of it

292 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:17pm

re: #255 Noam Sayin'

You could almost substitute "al Qaeda" for "Confederate."

I'm not supporting slavery in the Confederacy in any way shape or form, but over the years I'm developing a much greater understanding of why they chafed under the Federal gubmint. As now, there was a great deal that could be seen as usurping State's rights.

I'm NOT saying it's right, just that there were legitimate legal grievances regarding the limits of Federal power.

If they could just see the s**t we have now...

293 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:20pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Right now the biggest problem is her inexperience. After that she supports banning gay civil rights in the Constitution. I wouldn't support constitutional racism or antisemitism and I see no reason to support the same policies against gays. I also suspect that she's not very smart. If she writes a brilliant tome on her governmental or economic philosophies maybe I'll change my mind but until them I still see her as a dimwit. Republicans might be inticed by her simple redneck charm but I'm uderwhelmed.

I think the country could use a little plain common sense. Most of this shit isn't difficult, if you want to do the right thing that is.

294 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:22pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

Strawman again. Look, we are talking about evolution, not the "origins of the universe." Creationist love to try to confuse that issue, anything to make science look like it has holes.

Do you really think we are stupid enough to miss your little trick?

295 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:55pm

re: #223 bellamags

Hey there LoFlyer! I just thought the timing of the whole thing was funny. I thought maybe they made their move now before the zero took office to make sure they could act freely without someone mucking it up.

Haar mate, I think you have it nailed 100 percent. Just like the Israeli's have to hit Iran nuclear production now before Obama get's in office!

296 HoosierHoops  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:54:59pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

Well that explains it...
I went to Catholic school..not that I liked it..
You wouldn't have made it out of my 7th grade science class...You flunk pal..
And you are a teacher? I'm Bill Clinton..Don't tell Hilary I'm here

297 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:02pm

re: #273 yah

OT too
My husband was in line behind a woman at Wal Mart the other night. She bought $198.00 worth of M&M's. It made me think of you. Took the cashier forever to ring up. I thought "Man, she must of had a real smoking problem."

I want to marry her.

298 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:05pm

re: #283 MandyManners

Exactly!

299 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:10pm

re: #277 poopeedoo

Um... Sarc tag? Please tell me there's a missing sarc tag in your statement!

oh my goodness. . .why NOT. . .

300 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:16pm

re: #256 Occasional Reader

Is it a full moon tonight or something?

There is a moon? I can't see it. It cannot be.

Must be because of all the snow.

301 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:23pm

re: #245 Lincolntf

People who are Conservatives would allow and foster local education according to local standards. Minimum standards (No Creationism biology, no Evil Old White Men Raped the Earth American history, no Global Warming hoohaw) can/should be enforced, but let's be realistic.
Jindal seems very, very innocuous to me. His Religious views don't bother me much.

He is a politician. You see what he wants you to see. If Jindal were my next door neighbor, who went to the post office to work every day, I would not care a whit about his religious beliefs either. BUT, when he is the governor of a state, and signs a law into being which allows creationism to be taught in a science classroom, I damned well do care. Not only does he force that farce on the children of his own state, but sets a dangerous precedent for everyones children to have to be poisoned with this. School is to arm our children with the tools needed to survive reality. Keep the theology and philosophy where it belongs, the most critical place to keep free of creationism is the science classroom. Religion is a private family/personal matter. Period

302 jorline  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:35pm

re: #136 Lincolntf

Joe was approached in his own backyard by a roving campaign appearance featuring the President-elect. He's hardly a limelight hog. People asked for his opinion, and continue to, so he gives it to them. Good for him.

You're correct, he was approached by Obama, but this doesn't have anything to do with Joe's original question and subsequent popularity from the Obama question. If he didn't like McCain he should have removed himself from the campaign trail. His question to Obama was reveling, but that's where my interest in Joe ended.
IMHO McCain was grasping at straws adding Joe to his campaign. The MSM and the people didn't push Joe...he volunteered.

303 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:35pm

re: #221 Lincolntf

Whales didn't come from bears we get it, and since Darwin's time they've found that more likely they were land herbivores. Do you disagree? If so, then what is your theory, do you have proof?

304 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:39pm

re: #290 stuiec

That comment puzzles me.

I posted it because it because I've noticed that you're sympathetic to creationist arguments. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

305 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:42pm

re: #92 Rancher

Kind of like Thompson, who I really liked.

I enjoyed his speech at the convention.

306 2-Drink Minimum  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:53pm

A nation of 300+million now and we are forced into choosing between two candidates (yeah, there were others on the ballot but c'mon.) Until we realize that a two party system only benefits the elite of those two parties we are destined to be run by idiots (meet the new boss, same as the old boss.) Hey folks, Europe laughs at us and they are the ones that do matter and who really did populate this country with veracity! Now, excuse me while I have another macallan.

307 bellamags  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:55pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

I want to marry her.

LOL. that was great.

308 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:55:56pm

re: #288 Charles

It's always a full moon somewhere in the solar system.

You're probably one of these Christian-haters who believes the Earth revolves around the Sun, aren't you?

309 solomonpanting  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:04pm

re: #264 Iron Fist

He articulate very well my own reasons for voting for McCain. Make no mistake, I think McCain would have been a bad President. I just don't think he'd have been as bad for the Country as Obama will be.

Not by a long shot.

Yes, yes. The point I'd like to make is that the media continues to shill for Obama after the election. The writer's intent was to show Joe's disgust with McCain, when in fact, Joe was even more appalled, scared, fearful of Obama.

310 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:19pm

re: #281 Lincolntf

I never claimed "you" were anything. Get over yourself.

Read the post you wrote.

311 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:49pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History?

I don't know. What do you mean by "making a living in Natural History." You sell books at a museum or something?

Instead of being vague, why don't you tell us some of your qualifications?

312 anti-looter  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:56:55pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

The Republican party needs to resolve the issue of so-cons or there won't be a party. The current so-con 'absolutist - thou shall not' thing isn't selling, they need to forge their own alliance.

This country needs a party, candidates and options that address the middle 65% - 75% of the population.

313 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:22pm

re: #283 MandyManners

It's not his religious views that scare me. It's his willingness to open up Louisiana schools to the Muslim's creation stories.

Is that is what is at the root of all this creation v. evolution debate? That it is a muslim thing?

I believe God created all things. That's MY belief. I'm sticking to it. Everyone else can believe whatever they want.

314 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:22pm

re: #182 Charles

Huckabee is actually in the lead according to some polls.

If he's the GOP nominee in 2012, the Democrats will be on Easy Street.

If Huckabee wants a majority, he'll need to stop bad-mouthing his republican peers.

315 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:28pm

re: #280 LoFlyer

Thanks for actually reading the posts. So many people grab a phrase or a putative position assigned by someone else and decide that it defines a person. I'm no Creationist, but I'm also sick of saying that I'm not a Creationist. If people can't understand plain English and basic context, then what the hell are they doing reading/writing in public?

I know this topic is a pet of this site, so I try to skip the daily Creationism screeds, but it's hard to butt out all the time.

316 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:34pm

re: #274 Lincolntf

Yes, I know. If one doesn't agree in exactly the right way, to the exact right degree, they are a "hardcore Creationist".
How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History? I must be living in the Twilight Zone.

The fact is that if ANYONE tells you that they know (or tries to come within a billion years or so) the "origins of the Universe" they are full of crap. Until someone has a real answer, I'll take the compelling myths and the spiritual notions with a grain of salt, but I won't judge their purveyors. When it gets right down to it, I don't "KNOW" any more than they do.

No offense dude, but, what the hell are you talking about?

317 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:35pm

re: #250 Van Helsing

Sorry. I wasn't clear. Not legislation dealing with healthcare, but other things. In Arizona there were various attempts to get a weak law regarding illegals and employment passed to pre-empt or supercede the laws passed through our initiative process.

Ah, got it!

318 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:57:56pm

Please note that it's a big mistake to assume that people's statements about their professions or experience are true, especially when it comes to creationists -- who have demonstrated repeatedly that they have no compunctions about lying to promote the cause.

319 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:58:07pm

re: #293 Harry Tuttle

I think the country could use a little plain common sense. Most of this shit isn't difficult, if you want to do the right thing that is.

I love how parroting the "she's not that smart" mantra makes it true. . .we have her scores, we have her transcripts, right?

She held offices that allowed her performance as a civil servant to be measured. . .we got jack shit from dear leader. . .uhh uhh uhh. . and we still have no idea what HIS transcripts look like. . .Present got him president. . .

320 poopeedoo  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:58:21pm

re: #273 yah

OT too
My husband was in line behind a woman at Wal Mart the other night. She bought $198.00 worth of M&M's. It made me think of you. Took the cashier forever to ring up.
I thought "Man, she must of had a real smoking problem."

Maybe she didn't realize you can go to the M&M website and order the color of your choice!

321 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:58:39pm

re: #310 MandyManners

Read the post you wrote.

He has, and realized he can't get out of the simple words he wrote, so he is now going to try to suggest that we are stupid and misunderstand him.

Asshole.

322 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:01pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

Strawman again. Look, we are talking about evolution, not the "origins of the universe." Creationist love to try to confuse that issue, anything to make science look like it has holes.

Do you really think we are stupid enough to miss your little trick?

Go on without me. . .you lost me at the whale. . .

323 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:08pm

re: #284 Noam Sayin'

Now I gotta go look up "enmity."

Oh...

Sorry, dude. Didn't know you were still fighting the war. ;)

You're not a Southerner, are you? I'm not sure the South ever surrendered no matter what pieces of paper, windy speeches and preponderance of evidence may say to the contrary.

One thing we did wrong and paid the price for it—we should have freed the slaves during the war.

324 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:12pm

re: #149 Charles

Lincolntf is a hardcore creationist, in case anyone hasn't been following those threads.

I haven't been around much lately and haven't followed these threads, but a search of Lincolntf's posts on the previous thread you link to below produces the following quotations from him/her:

I don't want anyone teaching Creationism as Science in any schools. I'm as convinced of the fact of "evolution" as I am of the fact of gravity.

Again, I don't believe in Creationism...

Creationism is a dead-end street, and nobody who campaigns on such a notion will ever make it anywhere nationally.

Believe me, in the end, the Creationists will be proven short-sighted...

These are the words of a "hardcore creationist"?

They also seem consistent with what he/she says on this thread:

I am obviously not a Creationist. Creationism is a myth, common to virtually all cultures. It has nothing to do with Science and should never be taught as such.

These don't sound like the words of a "hardcore creationist," unless by that you mean someone who believes that material reality came from nothing (a quantum fluctuation being 'something'). If that belief makes you a "hardcore creationist," then you've redefined the term so broadly as to include theists of every known (or possible) stripe.

325 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 6:59:44pm

re: #318 Charles

Please note that it's a big mistake to assume that people's statements about their professions or experience are true,

We used to have to deal with that stuff all the time back when I was a Navy SEAL. Just before I won my Nobel physics prize.

326 mandolin[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:01pm
327 Opinionated  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:08pm

re: #312 anti-looter

The Republican party needs to resolve the issue of so-cons or there won't be a party. The current so-con 'absolutist - thou shall not' thing isn't selling, they need to forge their own alliance.

This country needs a party, candidates and options that address the middle 65% - 75% of the population.

That party will have to be born as a legitimate and potent third party possibility.

The absolutists will continue to damage the Republican brand while the Left will make the Democrats unpalatable to normal people.

328 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:19pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

No, you're turning the "origins of all being" into a Straw Man. I know that it makes not a whit of difference in my political life. Which is why the faster the topic is dismissed from otherwise rational discussion, the happier I'll be.

329 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:41pm

re: #292 Van Helsing

Well, clearly I totally missed on that post. I was comparing Civil War Copperheads to modern day anti-war activists - and Democrat politicians.

Mea culpa to David IV of Georgia, as well.

330 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:44pm

re: #306 2-Drink Minimum

A nation of 300+million now and we are forced into choosing between two candidates (yeah, there were others on the ballot but c'mon.) Until we realize that a two party system only benefits the elite of those two parties we are destined to be run by idiots (meet the new boss, same as the old boss.) Hey folks, Europe laughs at us and they are the ones that do matter and who really did populate this country with veracity! Now, excuse me while I have another macallan.

Europe can laugh all they want. They've turned their future over to a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats that rule by repetition - we'll make them keep voting on the same crap until those damn Irish get it right...

In the meantime they just keep cranking out rules and regulations.

331 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:00:50pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

He has, and realized he can't get out of the simple words he wrote, so he is now going to try to suggest that we are stupid and misunderstand him.

Asshole.

So a whale walks into a bar. . .wait, how is that working. . .shit, why didn't I pay more attention in Hebrew school. . .dammit I should KNOW this. . .whales are. . .

go on without me, I'll be here awhile. . .

332 WriterMom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:07pm

goddddfreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey

333 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:08pm

OK. Well. Where were we? Ah yes de Tocqueville.

The laws of democracy generally tend toward the good of the many, for they emanate from the majority of all citizens, who may be mistaken but cannot be in conflict of interest with themselves.

334 Harry Tuttle  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:32pm

re: #319 DisturbedEma

I love how parroting the "she's not that smart" mantra makes it true. . .we have her scores, we have her transcripts, right?

She held offices that allowed her performance as a civil servant to be measured. . .we got jack shit from dear leader. . .uhh uhh uhh. . and we still have no idea what HIS transcripts look like. . .Present got him president. . .

Agreed and in my opinion inexperience is the biggest plus of them all.

335 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:01:51pm

re: #313 CommonCents

Is that is what is at the root of all this creation v. evolution debate? That it is a muslim thing?
I believe God created all things. That's MY belief. I'm sticking to it. Everyone else can believe whatever they want.

Nope.

If one school district teaches the Biblical account of creation, it can be forced to teach that in the Koran. I guarantee you that CAIR is watching this issue very closely.

Also, the ID movement is aligned with a Turkish Muslim.

336 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:09pm

Come on Lincoln, you brought up the subject, where do you think whales came from?

337 LoFlyer  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:09pm

re: #315 Lincolntf

Thanks for actually reading the posts. So many people grab a phrase or a putative position assigned by someone else and decide that it defines a person. I'm no Creationist, but I'm also sick of saying that I'm not a Creationist. If people can't understand plain English and basic context, then what the hell are they doing reading/writing in public?

I know this topic is a pet of this site, so I try to skip the daily Creationism screeds, but it's hard to butt out all the time.

I generally stay out of the creationism thread but found I was a participant on that one early in the thread on non-creationism items. I gave Mandy a hard time about her debating style, I hope she will still talk to me! Haar!

338 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:11pm

re: #328 Lincolntf

No, you're turning the "origins of all being" into a Straw Man. I know that it makes not a whit of difference in my political life. Which is why the faster the topic is dismissed from otherwise rational discussion, the happier I'll be.

Again, what is it you do for a living that involves you with Natural History? I'm waiting for your answer, and careful on how you reply because there may be a test after you answer.

339 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:13pm

re: #325 Occasional Reader

We used to have to deal with that stuff all the time back when I was a Navy SEAL. Just before I won my Nobel physics prize.

Yeah, just before my Victoria Secret gig, and of course my Playmate of the year. . .after getting my doctorate in biochem. . .

340 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:31pm

{WriterMom}

The only creativity I'm in the mood for is mixing a good drink. It has been a slog these past few weeks.

341 Charles  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:02:40pm

re: #324 godfrey

Looks like he fooled you.

342 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:00pm

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

He has, and realized he can't get out of the simple words he wrote, so he is now going to try to suggest that we are stupid and misunderstand him.

Asshole.

He doesn't tap-dance very well, does he?

343 Basho  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:14pm

re: #311 Walter L. Newton


Instead of being vague, why don't you tell us some of your qualifications?

And risk someone with those actual qualifications to call him out on it? Surely you jest.
/

344 SurferDoc  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:15pm
345 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:17pm

I think that Open Primaries should be illegal. I am convinced that is how we ended up with John McCain. Too much mischief.

346 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:03:26pm

re: #342 MandyManners

He doesn't tap-dance very well, does he?

Maybe he can rent Happy feet. . .

347 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:09pm

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers. Many Confederate Officers were raised by black nannies.

348 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:12pm

re: #343 Basho

And risk someone with those actual qualifications to call him out on it? Surely you jest.
/

Can I call it the Cognito, pulling a Cog?
pleeeeeze?

349 Opinionated  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:17pm

re: #18 Sharmuta

His name is Rudy Giuliani and it's unlikely the so-cons will allow him to be our candidate ever.

I wonder how many of those SoCons who branded Giuliani as a "baby killer" and worse would if they could today trade him for for Obama as President-elect.

My guess is not many. Because to them unquestioned fealty to their cause is more important then the actual practical results of governance.

350 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:24pm

re: #331 DisturbedEma

So a whale walks into a bar. . .wait, how is that working. . .shit, why didn't I pay more attention in Hebrew school. . .dammit I should KNOW this. . .whales are. . . go on without me, I'll be here awhile. . .

Ok, but I'm not sure why you have replied to two of my comments with this talk about whales. I never mentioned anything about whales on this thread.

It's ok, I was just being nosey. I'm not even sure what the "whale" part of these comments here are about.

I'm trying to get Linc' just to answer a few simple questions, which he seems incapable of doing.

351 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:29pm

re: #341 Charles

Wouldn't be the first time. Like I said, I'm so sandbagged these days, I can't follow even a short trajectory on the threads. I do wish you all well, though.

352 WriterMom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:31pm

re: #340 godfrey

I was wondering where you were. I hope all is well...good to see you.

353 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:37pm

re: #324 godfrey

Evolution and Origin of Life are two different things.

354 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:38pm

re: #323 David IV of Georgia

Or maybe before the war?

355 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:50pm

C'mon Lincoln -- Whales...

You stated that you aren't a creationist, how did whales evolve, from whence came they? Please hold forth and tell us what you think on it.

356 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:04:53pm

re: #336 Thanos

Come on Lincoln, you brought up the subject, where do you think whales came from?

Well, first, the daddy whale gets dressed up and goes out to a bar...

357 stuiec  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:07pm

re: #259 jaunte

Attacking Darwin as a personality and implying that 'evolutionists' support everything that he ever wrote is a hallmark of creationist argument.

I missed the part where he attacked Darwin as a personality, accused Darwin of any sort of nefarious or distasteful conduct or personal attributes, or even said anything whatsoever that disagreed with Darwin's theory of evolution by reproductive selection.

Darwin knew nothing of chromosomes, DNA or genes, or of viruses and retroviruses. There are a number of things we know from modern science that would astound Darwin and cause him to revise and update his work. But he would be pleased to know that he was right about the process of evolution, even if he never knew of the mechanism by which traits are passed between generations.

So how is pointing out that Darwin was wrong in his speculation about one species' evolution somehow denying or attacking the principle of evolution itself?

Maybe I need a program to know who the players are. Is "Creationist" the official term for anyone who believes that God was a Prime Mover at the initiation of the Universe, even if that person believes that initiation happened billions of years in the past? Is "Evolutionist" the official term for anyone who believes that the shaping of the Universe and the life forms within it happened according to natural laws, even including those who believe that God had a hand in crafting those laws? I fall into both categories, so I need to know if I have to hate myself.

358 WriterMom  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:17pm

Good night.

359 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:43pm

re: #349 Opinionated

I wonder how many of those SoCons who branded Giuliani as a "baby killer" and worse would if they could today trade him for for Obama as President-elect.

My guess is not many. Because to them unquestioned fealty to their cause is more important then the actual practical results of governance.

I agree. It matters not that Rudy reduced the number of abortions and 0bama lets babies die in sinks.

360 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:48pm

re: #309 solomonpanting

Ah, I scan it now. Yeah it helps to have the entire media establishment as your own, personal, prison bitch. About the only thing we can do to combat that is making our voice heard on the internet and on radio talkshows. Join the NRA, JPFO, Second Amendment Foundation, as much as you can afford. Let your personal Congress critters know how you want them to vote on the issues.

And pray. Pray alot.

361 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:05:53pm

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

Ok, but I'm not sure why you have replied to two of my comments with this talk about whales. I never mentioned anything about whales on this thread.

It's ok, I was just being nosey. I'm not even sure what the "whale" part of these comments here are about.

I'm trying to get Linc' just to answer a few simple questions, which he seems incapable of doing.

Lincoln made the 'surely you understood the whale. . .connection' to you. . .that comment just struck me as funny. . .whales and creation. . .hmmm

362 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:06:39pm

re: #352 WriterMom

All is well, just a bit complicated, which is fine. I'm finding my way.

363 talon_262  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:06:45pm

re: #81 Charles

He's lying.

Oh really? Well, let's make sure he doesn't change his mind, because while I think he may be a good fit for a future Cabinet position (such as HHS) due to his track record, to have him as the GOP's standard-bearer in '12 would be political suicide.

/if anyone has to ask why Jindal is a Presidential "untouchable" for the GOP at this point, they'll never understand...

364 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:01pm

re: #342 MandyManners

He doesn't tap-dance very well, does he?

No he doesn't. He doesn't even use the "tricks" for non-dancers. I was taught a long time ago, if you are auditioning for a character part in a stage musical, and the dance captain insists that you audition for him/her, and they want to put you through the combinations anyway (even though the part doesn't require any singing or dancing), then what you do is...

Make sure you right foot ends up down on the last beat and smile.

He can't even do that here.

365 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:07pm

re: #335 MandyManners

Nope.

If one school district teaches the Biblical account of creation, it can be forced to teach that in the Koran. I guarantee you that CAIR is watching this issue very closely.

Also, the ID movement is aligned with a Turkish Muslim.

So what it's really about is what is taught in the schools, or is opening the door to be taught. Not what each individual believes. Is that right?

366 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:27pm

re: #356 CapeCoddah

Well, first, the daddy whale gets dressed up and goes out to a bar...

SEE! I did pay attention in Hebrew School. . .a whale DID walk into a bar. . and the rest is evolution

//ducks the debris bombs., . .

367 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:38pm

re: #318 Charles

Please note that it's a big mistake to assume that people's statements about their professions or experience are true, especially when it comes to creationists -- who have demonstrated repeatedly that they have no compunctions about lying to promote the cause.

It is a big mistake to presume anything said on a blog is true unless it can be verified by independent sources. So if I claim to have ten PhDs or be a UN ambassador or to have created Jello™, you would do well to question it unless it is obviously just inane chatter.

368 Aussie Stinger  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:53pm

G'Day Charles,

What's wrong with Bobby Jindal for President? Isn't he a true Conservative?

Outsider here.

369 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:07:58pm

re: #323 David IV of Georgia

I was in Vicksburg a couple of years ago and took a guided historical tour.
They DO NOT celebrate Independence Day there. Other than after the end of WWII.
That was the day they were forced to surrender to U. S. Grant.

That whole 'war of northern aggression' is still real to more people than one would think.

370 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:00pm

re: #357 stuiec

One of the shortcuts in creationists argumentation is to state that "Darwin was wrong about (fill in the blank)" with the implication that the mistake taints evolutionary biology to this day.

371 rawmuse  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:39pm

Way OT, Stephen Colbert's Christmas album is pretty funny.
It is on mp3.com

372 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:52pm

Well, somehow a gang of lizards have hijacked the Joe the Plumber thread to an ID thread.
Or some might say "evolved."

373 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:08:58pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers. Many Confederate Officers were raised by black nannies.

Bizarre perspective there.

374 Racer X  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:09:00pm
375 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:09:20pm

re: #369 Van Helsing

I was in Vicksburg a couple of years ago and took a guided historical tour.
They DO NOT celebrate Independence Day there. Other than after the end of WWII.
That was the day they were forced to surrender to U. S. Grant.

That whole 'war of northern aggression' is still real to more people than one would think.

I saw a tee in Gettysburg. . .stars and bars said 'if this flag offends you, you need a history lesson'

376 CommonCents  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:09:21pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers. Many Confederate Officers were raised by black nannies.

I must say, I see more racism here in Michigan than I ever did in west central Florida. However, the Tampa-St. Pete area has such a diverse population of transplants it's hard to call it "the south".

377 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:00pm

re: #372 yah

Well, somehow a gang of lizards have hijacked the Joe the Plumber thread to an ID thread.
Or some might say "evolved."

snort. . .good one, now about the whales. . .

378 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:03pm

So Lincoln, still waiting here. You state you're not a creationist, so please tell us where whales did come from. [Warning: We will catch you if you crib from DI/AIG/ICR]

379 redc1c4  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:22pm

re: #193 Harry Tuttle

Disagree, the election was close by all rights Obama should have been 30 points ahead. It came down to a few million votes.

Had McCain been agressive on things like Wright and pushing hard against the bailout and laying blame where it belonged, and unleashing Palin who knows...

McCain in many ways is to blame for Obama winning. Again, one of the reasons I didn't like him to begin with.

quoted, just because everyone needs to read that again. McLame lost the race by running like a crack addled fuckwit.

i don't mind him losing, since he deserved to, but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because he's got unresolved issues.

380 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:32pm

re: #370 jaunte

One of the shortcuts in creationists argumentation is to state that "Darwin was wrong about (fill in the blank)" with the implication that the mistake taints evolutionary biology to this day.

It doesn't? I don't even use a telephone to this day because some guy (can't remember his name) in the 1860's said the idea would never work.

381 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:32pm

re: #329 Noam Sayin'

Well, clearly I totally missed on that post. I was comparing Civil War Copperheads to modern day anti-war activists - and Democrat politicians.

Mea culpa to David IV of Georgia, as well.

I probably saw a wider brush stroke than you intended Noam.

382 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:47pm

re: #323 David IV of Georgia

Freed the slaves and then fired on Fort Sumpter. It would have completely changed the moral calculus when third parties were debating supporting the Confederacy.

Would that have been better or worse for the Nation? I don't think we can really determine with certainty what would have happened if the South won.

383 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #378 Thanos

So Lincoln, still waiting here. You state you're not a creationist, so please tell us where whales did come from. [Warning: We will catch you if you crib from DI/AIG/ICR]

Whales about his opinion and bails. . .Ahab to say he is gone. . .

384 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:07pm

re: #368 Aussie Stinger

Bobby Jindal is very conservative. Charles doesn't like Jindal's religious views.

385 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:19pm

re: #374 Racer X

Homework Fail

Failblog keeps me sane.

386 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:31pm

re: #379 redc1c4

quoted, just because everyone needs to read that again. McLame lost the race by running like a crack addled fuckwit.

i don't mind him losing, since he deserved to, but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer because he's got unresolved issues.

sad but that crack addled fuckwit looked better to me than my party's choice. . .

387 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:38pm

re: #372 yah

Well, somehow a gang of lizards have hijacked the Joe the Plumber thread to an ID thread. Or some might say "evolved."

The thread was created from a Joe the Plumber thread to an evolution thread.

388 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:49pm

re: #364 Walter L. Newton

No he doesn't. He doesn't even use the "tricks" for non-dancers. I was taught a long time ago, if you are auditioning for a character part in a stage musical, and the dance captain insists that you audition for him/her, and they want to put you through the combinations anyway (even though the part doesn't require any singing or dancing), then what you do is...

Make sure you right foot ends up down on the last beat and smile.

He can't even do that here.

He probably claps on 3.

389 Haverwilde  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:11:54pm

re: #288 Charles

Okay, I will be the smart-ass dork. You are usually right, except at the time of the lunar eclipse. /smartass

390 jaunte  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:01pm

re: #380 Walter L. Newton

HAVE RCVD YOUR TELEGRM. MUST PONDER. J.

391 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:08pm

re: #365 CommonCents

So what it's really about is what is taught in the schools, or is opening the door to be taught. Not what each individual believes. Is that right?

That's it to me.

392 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:20pm

Anybody know anything about Khaled Fouad Allam? Is he a better alternative to Tariq Ramadan?

393 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:41pm

re: #318 Charles

My wife would say that I'm "trying to make a living" in Natural History, and she'd be mostly right. My "real" career is Construction Mgmt.
Either way, I don't lie in my posts or in my real life. I find it morally repugnant and ultimately counter-productive.

394 2-Drink Minimum  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:45pm

re: #330 Van Helsing

There are pockets of hope there. And I dig the cohabitational governments -- having more factions to stir the pot or mix it up is a benefit. I dig the Irish esp at St James's Gate!

395 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:52pm

re: #381 Van Helsing

I have a habit of presuming people think like me and track with me on my thoughts, which is seldom the case, noam sayin?'

396 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:12:54pm

re: #384 mandolin

Bobby Jindal is very conservative. Charles doesn't like Jindal's religious views.

but do moral positions HAVE to be religious in nature? Can't they be people behaving wonderfully because as the oatmeal commercial used to say it 'is the right thing to do and a good way to do it'?

397 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:00pm
398 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:10pm

re: #384 mandolin

Bobby Jindal is very conservative. Charles doesn't like Jindal's religious views.

Do they stand in line waiting to be whacked? Linc' out, Mandy in. It's like tag team wrestling. Same intelligence level too.

399 Occasional Reader  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:31pm

re: #347 Rancher

One thing about the Civil War, blacks on the whole were better treated by Southern Rebels than by Northern soldiers.

If you leave out the whole "enslaving them" bit.

400 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:35pm

re: #397 buzzsawmonkey

Looks like I've been fouad'd again!

401 Lincolntf  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:13:43pm

re: #336 Thanos

You want the Darwin or the Gould or my own opinion?

402 yah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:01pm

re: #320 poopeedoo

Maybe she didn't realize you can go to the M&M website and order the color of your choice!

And had them delivered - must have been at least 100 pounds of candy. Maybe she had a real bad case of munchies and just could't wait.

403 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:37pm

re: #396 DisturbedEma

but do moral positions HAVE to be religious in nature? Can't they be people behaving wonderfully because as the oatmeal commercial used to say it 'is the right thing to do and a good way to do it'?

pass the granola. . .I have to weave me some snow boots. . .macrame. . .

404 Iron Fist  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:46pm

re: #369 Van Helsing


I had a great aunt when I was very young that called it the War of Northern Agression. She was born during Reconstruction. She also referred to me as "master" and my sister as "Missy".

She died when I was very young.

405 MandyManners  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:14:57pm

re: #401 Lincolntf

You want the Darwin or the Gould or my own opinion?

I want you to answer Walter's question about calling us "so-called conservatives".

406 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:15:04pm

re: #400 godfrey

Looks like I've been fouad'd again!

Fouad'd ya twice? Shame on ya!

407 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:15:27pm

re: #395 Noam Sayin'

I have a habit of presuming people think like me and track with me on my thoughts, which is seldom the case, noam sayin?'

You too?

408 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:15:53pm

re: #407 Van Helsing

You too?

yeah, I get that a lot. . .

409 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:01pm

Wow- construction management equals natural history. Who knew?

410 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:07pm

re: #406 DisturbedEma

It's allam'ing, I tell ya.

411 Boogberg  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:14pm

re: #288 Charles

It's always a full moon somewhere in the solar system.

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

412 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:18pm

If you all are wondering why I'm pressing Lincoln on the Whale question it's because he stated he wasn't a creationist, but I think he really is. He's an old earth creationist. Those are creationists who have given up on the 6000 yr old Earth, but believe that G-d individually hand crafted each species in order as it appeared. So his statement about "not being a creationist" coupled with his arguing against evolution probably places him in the Old earth creationist camp, just trying to get his taxonomy down here .

413 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:19pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

Wow- construction management equals natural history. Who knew?

creation by any other name. . .

414 Thanos  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:16:45pm

re: #401 Lincolntf

Don't be coy, I asked for what you think.

415 lifeofthemind  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:11pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

As much as I loved Rudy's policies he could not have won a general election. He had too many skeletons in his closet; Ex wives, affairs and his bestest friend is a Catholic priest involved in molesting children. He also didn't pass the purity tests on social conservatism. I love the guy but he just isn't going to make it.

Exactly right, I like Rudy but I've heard from Cops and other LEOs about Bernie Kerik to know that if he was the nominee the same MSM that covers for BHO would crucify Rudy.

416 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:26pm

re: #410 godfrey

It's allam'ing, I tell ya.

Fatwa it's worth, I like ya. . .

417 Peter Verkooijen  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:30pm

Joe Wurzelbacher 2012

418 CapeCoddah  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:42pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

Wow- construction management equals natural history. Who knew?

My hubby is in construction management. He knocks down and digs up a lot of natural history with his CAT's

419 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:47pm

re: #393 Lincolntf

My wife would say that I'm "trying to make a living" in Natural History, and she'd be mostly right. My "real" career is Construction Mgmt.

Either way, I don't lie in my posts or in my real life. I find it morally repugnant and ultimately counter-productive.

Are you drinking? You said "How on earth does a "Creationist" make a living in Natural History?" refering to YOURSELF.

Now, which is it, do you make a living in Natural History (I don't even know what that phrase would mean) or are you trying to make a living in Natural History.

And no matter which lie you want to repeat, what do you mean by "living in Natural History."

(Gosh, I'm actually asking him to lie further just to get him to explain his lies)

420 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:17:47pm

Hmm, not having insufficient information isn't being "fooled." There is hope for me yet!

421 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:01pm

re: #412 Thanos

If you all are wondering why I'm pressing Lincoln on the Whale question it's because he stated he wasn't a creationist, but I think he really is. He's an old earth creationist. Those are creationists who have given up on the 6000 yr old Earth, but believe that G-d individually hand crafted each species in order as it appeared. So his statement about "not being a creationist" coupled with his arguing against evolution probably places him in the Old earth creationist camp, just trying to get his taxonomy down here .

I latched on to that BIG time. . .whales and this topic. . .sigh

422 godfrey  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:13pm

Er, not having "sufficient" information. lol

I'm going to bed.

423 mandolin  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:14pm

re: #398 Walter L. Newton

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

424 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:18:50pm

re: #411 Boogberg

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

There is no dark side of the moon. Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it's always dark..

425 notutopia  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:01pm

re: #372 yah

Yah, Joe didn't evolve, he just became "aware". I think he should have followed his original independence streak and walked quietly out the McCain bus. I am disappointed that he didn't. It is not a character weakness to leave bad company when you must. It is a sign of character strength to leave the company of those who reveal them selves to be not what you were led to believe and are no longer honest to your way of life or mission. I think it was self guilt he was purging by being pseudo honest on Beck's interview. I think he was angry and disappointed in himself. He was rationalizing why he stayed. I always knew that my vote for McCain was the best of the worst of the two candidates.

426 Van Helsing  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:13pm

re: #411 Boogberg

Even on the dark side of the moon?

I'll get me coat...:D

There are over 100 moons in the solar system. I'm not going to plot all the orbits.

427 DisturbedEma  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:16pm

re: #423 mandolin

You would dispute that Jindal's religious views have not been attacked by Charles?

I just think it is his creationist ones, they are not the same are they? no sarc

428 Rancher  Tue, Dec 9, 2008 7:19:29pm

re: #367 David IV of Georgia

It is a big mistake to presume anything said on a blog is true unless it can be verified by independent sources. So if I claim to have ten PhDs or be a UN ambassador or to have created Jello™, you would do well to question it unless it is obviously just inane chatter.


Over time you get an idea about some claims. I'm pretty sure 3Wood is in the investment business for instance. Most Marines can tell a poser because there are some things that every Marine knows such as there are only two places one could have gone to boot camp. BTW,