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Child Abuse in Koran Classes

World | Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 9:34:33 am PST

Shocking stories are emerging of child abuse in the unregistered and unmonitored radical Islamic madrassas of Pakistan...

Oops. Did I write “Pakistan?”

I meant Britain: Teachers ‘beat and abuse’ Muslim children in British Koran classes.

Muslim children are being beaten and abused regularly by teachers at some British madrassas - Islamic evening classes - an investigation by The Times has found.

Students have been slapped, punched and had their ears twisted, according to an unpublished report by an imam based on interviews with victims in the north of England. One was “picked up by one leg and spun around” while another said a madrassa teacher was “kicking in my head - like a football”, says the report which was compiled by Irfan Chishti, a former government adviser on Islamic affairs.

Almost 1,600 madrassas operate in Britain, teaching Arabic and the Koran on weekday evenings to about 200,000 children aged from four to their mid-teens.

While there is no hard evidence to indicate how many are involved in the physical abuse of children, The Times has uncovered a disturbing pattern in one town - Rochdale - through interviews with mainstream school teachers, Muslim parents and the children themselves.

One woman told The Times that her niece Hiba, 7, was slapped across the face so hard by her madrassa teacher that her ear was cut. It later became inflamed and she had to have emergency medical treatment.

When the teacher refused to apologise, Hiba’s aunt, Jamila, insisted that her niece should be moved to another madrassa. “I have absolutely no respect for religious teachers who behave like this,” she said.

Another girl described how, at the age of 12, she was hit by her madrassa teacher whenever she mispronounced a word or forgot a verse of the Koran.

When Imam Chishti, a religious education teacher who also runs the Light of Islam Academy in Rochdale, decided to carry out his own investigation into the problem he was shocked by how even the victims had grown to accept the abuse. “They all joked about it,” he said. “There’s a culture that accepts it.”

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241 comments

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1 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:35:27am

but but but.... Islam means peace.

2 debutaunt  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:36:43am

No victim of the ROP left without scars.

3 Desert Dog  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:36:53am

It is Allah's will, what is the problem? The next thing you'll tell me is I cannot beat my wife when I want! geez!

4 greggriffith  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:37:03am

Heh. Sounds like Catholic school.

5 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:37:16am

Surprised that this wasn't buried so as not to offend their delicate sensibilities.

6 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:37:52am

re: #5 Creeping Eruption

Seething will break out in 5...4...3...2...1...

7 saberry0530  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:38:40am

ROPMA!

8 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:38:41am

re: #6 Iron Fist

Seething will break out in 5...4...3...2...1...

"Youths" engaging in "unrest"

9 bosforus  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:38:45am

Do bruises count for show and tell?

10 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:39:26am

What would Depok Chopra have to say?

11 maddogg  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:39:58am

Well, hell, people. You send your kids off to a damn madrassa, they get beaten and abused and you act like it was supposed to Cool Aid, cookies and Big Bird. Where have you been?

12 jaunte  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:40:27am

Some good comments from veterans of the system, below the story:

Hear hear
Im 21, from bradford and i went to mosque's from the age of 9 to15 and I hated it. We used to get smashed about. The teachers used to have sticks, slippers, shoes, fists, kicks, slaps, ear twisting, etc And at the end of all of it - I can read arabic but dont understand a word - nice!

waqqas, bradford, england

13 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:40:28am
Madrassas and similar religious classes are not subject to any regulation nor are their teachers required to be vetted by the Criminal Records Bureau. Many madrassas are not even known to the authorities because they are run on an ad hoc basis by people in their own living rooms. Even those attached to a mosque which is registered with the Charities Commission are not monitored.

Ms Cryer called for the authorities to be given powers to perform “spot checks” on madrassas and shut down any in which children are being abused.“As the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities grow so do the number of madrassas and therefore the risk to children increases every year,” she said.

It's just sad.

14 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:40:30am

re: #10 FrogMarch

What would Depok Chopra have to say?

"Give the madrassas a billion dollars per year to fight this problem."

15 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:41:18am

re: #4 greggriffith

Heh. Sounds like Catholic school.

Not lately. Catholic schools have evolved.

16 Occasional Reader  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:42:03am

Hey, it's not "child abuse", it's more like "lab sessions". A feature, not a bug.

/

17 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:42:11am

re: #15 Racer X

Not lately. Catholic schools have evolved

been intelligently redesigned.

fixed

18 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:42:25am

Freaking Barbarians.

19 quickjustice  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:42:54am

Well, "Islam" does mean "submission". To instill the proper degree of submission in a child, vicious beatings clearly are necessary! ;-)

20 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:43:04am

Sons a bitchches

Damn them.

Slapping and hitting? Why stop there?

Here is what they did to a 14 year old boy, who they caught eating during the day during ramadan:

They whipped him to death.

Link.

islam.Delenda.Est.

21 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:43:15am

"Peace" is the name of the riding crop they use on the kids.

22 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:44:07am

Islam is a brutal cult.

Not a religion.

23 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:44:09am

Catholic School in the 1950's.
Guess there are no Father O'Mally's, or nuns like Ingrid Bergman either.

24 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:44:31am

Come on. Let's give them a break. How else are they supposed to instill the proper amount of hatred into these kids?

25 2by2  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:44:32am

Shocking,
The only real surprise is that the Times of London is writing about it

26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:44:36am

Koran classes are child abuse

27 redc1c4  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:44:57am

what marvelous people. we simply must have them over for tea........

28 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:45:36am

re: #16 Occasional Reader

Some men pay good money to be horsewhipped. I'm surprised they aren't trying to find a way to tax it.

29 lifeofthemind  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:45:45am

Sic the guidance counselors on them, that will make them sorry.

30 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:45:47am

re: #23 smokefire

Catholic School in the 1950's.

Yeah some of us got whacked once in a while.

No scars.

31 Gella  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:46:06am

they should call it: this is the proper way to raise a faithful terrorist.

"sarcasm"

32 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:46:26am

re: #30 Racer X

see my 20

33 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:46:40am

Father O'Mally at his best.

34 Pyrocles  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:47:08am

As Khomeini stated, a Muslim must spend his or her life in "hardship and prayer". Fun is forbidden, and these madrassas are just getting the youngins' ready.

35 Opinionated  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:48:52am

Hey guys, remember when it was racist and contemptible to mention Obama's middle name?

President-elect Barack Obama says he plans to use all three of his names when he takes the oath of office in January, giving voice to a name that was was rarely used during the campaign except by critics.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Racist is such a moving target.

36 debutaunt  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:48:56am

re: #34 Pyrocles

As Khomeini stated, a Muslim must spend his or her life in "hardship and prayer". Fun is forbidden, and these madrassas are just getting the youngins' ready.

Taking the fun in disfunction quite seriously.

37 yma o hyd  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:49:10am

re: #25 2by2

Shocking,
The only real surprise is that the Times of London is writing about it

I have another surprise for you:
the NuLab government here wants to legislate so that parents who even slap their misbehaving children just once will go to prison. Thats slapping, not systematic, brutal abuse like that reported!
Why is it that nobody in local or central government has done anything about this?

I can tell you - its because its this quaint ethnic cultural thing, government can't interfere, same as with honour killings.

Ah well, perhaps I ought to start enquiring about who can make me a nice burqa ...

38 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:49:18am

re: #32 Ojoe

see my 20

Yeah I saw that around the time it happened. Not as bad as when the Imams would not let the little girls out of the burning building.

These people are sick.

39 bosforus  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:49:55am
Child Abuse in Koran Classes

Also known as: Children Learn Koran in Koran Classes

40 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:50:11am

re: #38 Racer X

Delenda. Whatever it takes.

41 DistantThunder  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:51:03am

more violence - sexual violence - child violence - domestic violence - inter-tribal violence - inter-country violence, inter-continental violence

42 Occasional Reader  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:51:05am

re: #34 Pyrocles

As Khomeini stated, a Muslim must spend his or her life in "hardship and prayer". Fun is forbidden

Well... he didn't forbid ALL forms of "fun".

43 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:52:11am

Remember when rock and roll took over in America? Parents were freaking out and kids were rebelling? Kids of Islam need rock and roll to help them get away from the cult.

Man, they need something.

44 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:52:25am

re: #41 DistantThunder

more violence - sexual violence - child violence - domestic violence - inter-tribal violence - inter-country violence, inter-continental violence

ROV.

45 Born_to_lose  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:52:33am

Why aren't any of the blogs covering the new *promises* being made by Obama regarding engaging the Islamic world and "rebooting [our] image" amongst it's followers? It's not here, not on jihad watch, not on dhimmi watch... is anyone even remotely moved or compelled to do anything about this? It's unnerving, to say the least...

46 gruvin  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:53:06am

It's Sharia law, baby. We must respect their religion. Not

47 hermit  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:53:39am

re: #17 Ford_Prefect

been intelligently redesigned.

fixed

um, Ford.....Catholics don't do the ID thing. Not a fair "fix"

48 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:53:50am

re: #43 Racer X

Remember when rock and roll took over in America? Parents were freaking out and kids were rebelling? Kids of Islam need rock and roll to help them get away from the cult.

Man, they need something.

We didn't condone beheading them for rebelling tho.

49 DisturbedEma  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:54:47am

Even my Bubbe's stories about Cheder don't sound this bad. . .wow

50 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:55:23am

The most senior judge in England yesterday gave his blessing to the use of sharia law to resolve disputes among Muslims.
Lord Chief Justice Lord Phillips said that Islamic legal principles could be employed to deal with family and marital arguments and to regulate finance.

He declared: 'Those entering into a contractual agreement can agree that the agreement shall be governed by a law other than English law.'
In his speech at an East London mosque, Lord Phillips signalled approval of sharia principles as long as punishments - and divorce rulings - complied with the law of the land.

SNIP

51 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:56:02am
52 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:56:29am

re: #43 Racer X

Remember when rock and roll took over in America? Parents were freaking out and kids were rebelling? Kids of Islam need rock and roll to help them get away from the cult.

Man, they need something.

Someone else can find the link to "Rock the Casbah"

53 2by2  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:56:48am

re: #37 yma o hyd

I have another surprise for you:
the NuLab government here wants to legislate so that parents who even slap their misbehaving children just once will go to prison. Thats slapping, not systematic, brutal abuse like that reported!
Why is it that nobody in local or central government has done anything about this?

I can tell you - its because its this quaint ethnic cultural thing, government can't interfere, same as with honour killings.

Ah well, perhaps I ought to start enquiring about who can make me a nice burqa ...

No, not really a surprise, that seems to be a pattern in GB, since the ROP has now their own Sharia court system, the day will come when general laws are only applied to non-Muslims.
Good thing about Burkhas is you don't have to worry about a bad hair day anymore../

54 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:57:50am

..........at least you CAN LEAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH The Pope is not going to condemn you in a Fatwa, nor send out assassins after you.

55 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:57:51am

The beatings shall continue until morale improves!

56 Erik The Red  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:57:53am

I have been online for 10 minutes trying to catch up. Charles is on Ritalin today.

57 lifeofthemind  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:57:55am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Well... he didn't forbid ALL forms of "fun".

Piceless, Steyn scores again

58 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:58:04am

re: #53 2by2

No, not really a surprise, that seems to be a pattern in GB, since the ROP has now their own Sharia court system, the day will come when general laws are only applied to non-Muslims.
Good thing about Burkhas is you don't have to worry about a bad hair day anymore../

Just a bad "head" day.

59 Summer  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:58:22am

This isn't surprising to me at all.

What is rather humorous is that the teachers think that memorizing a line of the Koran incorrectly is important enough to warrant a beating.

If only they were this harsh about learning something really useful instead.

60 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:58:31am

re: #30 Racer X

Yeah some of us got whacked once in a while.

No scars.

I got my knuckles rapped with a ruler more than a few times at a Catholic Elementary school in the 70s.

61 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:58:33am

re: #43 Racer X

Remember when rock and roll took over in America? Parents were freaking out and kids were rebelling? Kids of Islam need rock and roll to help them get away from the cult.

Man, they need something.

Shareef don't like it.

62 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:58:52am

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

Dr Rowan Williams also criticised Christianity's history for its violence, its use of harsh punishments and its betrayal of its peaceful principles.

His comments came in a highly conciliatory letter to Islamic leaders calling for an alliance between the two faiths for 'the common good'.

SNIP

In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.

SNIP

63 jorline  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:59:03am

Spare the rod...spoil the child! Manage the masses by fear.

ROPMA
*spit*

64 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:59:18am

folks I hate to the voice of reason here but when I read the article all of the quotes of abuse were from the children themselves or a parent or relative reporting what the child had reported. I would inject a dose of caution in necessarily believing all of it. I have had occasion, being on a school board, to have head similar accusations and then upon investigation and reports of third parties they have turned out to be untrue.

65 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:59:19am

re: #52 Kosh's Shadow

Someone else can find the link to "Rock the Casbah"

OK you ask, you receive.

Enjoy.

66 ladycatnip  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:59:22am

You'd think this story would give our government a heads-up to investigate our own public school madrassas, paid for by our tax dollars. They're popping up all over, gated, with guards.

Apparently off limits to the infidel.

67 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:59:47am

re: #47 hermit

um, Ford.....Catholics don't do the ID thing. Not a fair "fix"

Oops. Sorry. A case of the posting outpacing the brain.

68 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 9:59:53am

re: #60 CyanSnowHawk

I got my knuckles rapped with a ruler more than a few times at a Catholic Elementary school in the 70s.

Heh. I still shy away from those old wooden rulers.

69 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:00:09am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

Perhaps we can talk to them again in a few hundred years.

70 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:00:49am
71 Summer  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:00:59am

re: #62 MandyManners

That guy is like the biggest tool in the West. =)

72 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:01:27am

re: #70 buzzsawmonkey

Al Gore would have been a wooden ruler if he'd been elected. But he's not that old.

We could spruce him up.

73 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:01:34am

re: #68 Racer X

Heh. I still shy away from those old wooden rulers.

I tend to jump when someone says, "Stick out your hand" emphatically.

74 cagney  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:02am

I recall a year or two ago watching a TV news report about UK Muslim drug addicts being sent to Pakistan to be cure but where tortured, found a link:

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Quote from article:

A Pakistani cleric has been arrested for running a private jail to which he lured dozens of drug addicts from Britain by offering a spiritual cure in return for money.

In a raid this week, police found 113 people, aged between 12 and 50, bound in chains and shackled together at a madrassa, or religious school, in a remote village in northern Pakistan.

At least seven were British nationals of Pakistani origin.

Many prisoners, whose relatives consigned them to the care of Maulana Ilyas Qadri hoping they would be cured, claimed to have been sexually assaulted, beaten and starved.

The alarm was raised when two men shackled together escaped and told the police.

Abdul Majeed Afridi, the area police chief, said: "We were not mentally prepared for such a scene when we entered the madrassa. It seemed something out of a drama rather than reality.

"They were utterly terrified of him and the guards. They were beaten black and blue and claimed it was a jail, not a rehabilitation centre."

The cleric, who denies doing anything wrong, told The Daily Telegraph that he made patients chain themselves up and sign a disclaimer ordering that they should not be released until after a certain period of time. Their families paid about £50 a month for the "treatment".

"Married men would be chained for one year and unmarried men for 18 months," the mullah said.

"But people from Britain were chained for only three or four months because of pressure from back home."

He added: "Because of my spiritual treatment they would not feel pain.""

75 quickjustice  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:08am

re: #50 MandyManners

The Limeys will continue to attempt to buy off the Muslim extremists until it becomes obvious that the strategy has failed. Then they'll be confronted with the tough choice: submit or fight back.

76 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:11am

The personality of Muhammad is an enigma to many scholars. Even those who do not believe that he was a messenger of God and can prove that his personal qualities and deeds disqualify him for such lofty station, admit that he had an extremely impressive and charismatic personality that was able to influence people around him who believed in him and were inspired or even mesmerized to the extent that they were ready to kill for him and his promises.

What made Muhammad different? Was he a genius or was he a monster? Was he a saint or was he a devil? The believers’ opinion of Muhammad differs from his foes, yet all agree that Muhammad was no ordinary person. What made Muhammad different? How he was able to summon so much determination, aspire so big, think so grandiose and become so powerful in such a short time? What was the force behind him?

There is not a day that someone somewhere does not proclaim himself to be a messenger of God and there are no shortage of fools who believe in him. Who would go about killing innocent people like in the case of the Japanese sect the Supreme Truth or would commit mass suicides like in the case of the American sect, the Heaven's Gate. What makes one make such claim? Is it for money? Of course not! What these charlatans want is respect, admiration and power. These people are emotionally sick. They are narcissists. A narcissist is someone who has a tremendous need for recognition. Narcissists are stubborn, manipulative and crave for power. But they are also intelligent, cunning and resourceful. The most famous of the narcissists are: Changeez Khan, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini Polpot, Mao, Saddam Hussein and Idi Amin. Narcissists are smart but they are emotionally disturbed. They only see their validation in power and to achieve that they stop at nothing. They lie very convincingly. They inspire confidence and look absolutely self-assured. But all that is a facade to hide their emotional insecurity and their inner fears.

This emotional disturbance occurs at childhood. What the above dictators had in commons is a difficult and a loveless childhood. In the case of Muhammad he was born an orphan. In those days orphans did not have much prestige and the awareness that he was an orphan must have left on him its impact making him feel insecure and inferior. When Muhammad was born he was given to a surrogate mother Thueiba who nursed him for several months (Katib al Waquidi p. 20).

SNIP

77 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:20am

re: #65 smokefire

I like this version better: Rock El Casbah

78 jcm  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:27am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

Christians return the favor.
Christians find the Archbishop of Canterbury Offensive.

79 Pyrocles  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:32am

Rowan Williams: the Ultimate Dhimmi.

Or would that be George Galloway? Hmm...

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:43am

re: #72 Racer X

We could spruce him up.

Lots of folks still pine for him.

81 SagamoreGal  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:02:55am

Not shocking, in the least.

Savage "religion" for savages. The under belly of every country's society.

82 rusty_armor  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:03:16am

Ho Hum.

A third century brutal, misogynic religion abuses its children. Why is anyone supprised.

Smack 'em again! Allah Ackbar!

83 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:03:23am

re: #72 Racer X

We could spruce him up.

I find myself pining for those days.

84 jorline  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:03:25am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

From the same dumbass that was calling for Sharia Law acceptance in Britain within the Muslim community pertaining to marriage. Someone needs to give the Archbishop a shift kick in the ass to dislodge his head.

85 hermit  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:04:08am

re: #67 Ford_Prefect

Oops. Sorry. A case of the posting outpacing the brain.

No harm. No foul.

86 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:04:09am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Well... he didn't forbid ALL forms of "fun".

aha - I love Steyn.

87 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:04:22am

re: #77 Killgore Trout

I like this version better: Rock El Casbah

Not too shabby. I'll give a 75, Dick, you can dance to it.

88 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:04:28am

“There’s a culture that accepts it.”

And we know what the culture is called: Islam

89 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:05:02am

re: #72 Racer X

We could spruce him up.

And what wood that accomplish?

90 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:05:09am

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lots of folks still pine for him.

I couldn't stomach watching him Larch into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

91 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:05:19am

OT: Sounds like Jesse Jackson Junior is "candidate #5" and he apparently offered "Blago" a million bucks for the seat. Any chance he gets indicted?

Any chance he pulls the race card?

92 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:05:29am

re: #84 jorline

From the same dumbass that was calling for Sharia Law acceptance in Britain within the Muslim community pertaining to marriage. Someone needs to give the Archbishop a shift kick in the ass to dislodge his head.

That would just break his nose.

93 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:06:06am

re: #90 CyanSnowHawk

I couldn't stomach watching him Larch into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Does the white house have a coniference room?

94 Born_to_lose  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:06:35am

re: #62 MandyManners

oOOOHHHH... that makes my blood boil... and let me tell ya why....

First of all, as a man of the cloth, this DUDE should know that there is NOTHING in the Bible, or of historical artifact that would support Jewish or Christian teachings of violence specifically TOWARDS muslims, pre-mohammadean (which ALSO negates the Islamic claim that basically all Jews and Christians, pre-Muhammad, were in Mooozlams ::sheesh::). Furthermore, nothing IN the Bible, and most definately not in the New Testament, should be of offense TO the Muslims! What about the fact that IN their "holy" book it talks of the Slaying of the unbelievers and killing, conquering and subjugating (and chargins the Jizya) to non-muslims, aka people of the book, aka, Jews & Christians. I swear to God, people are loosing their ever loving minds. Insanity!

95 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:06:36am

re: #93 father_of_10

Does the white house have a coniference room?

It's near the Oak'al office.

96 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:06:48am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Well... he didn't forbid ALL forms of "fun".

Khomeini rules for fun and self-discipline:

#2631. It is loathsome to eat the meat of horse and mule and donkey and if somebody makes coitus with them, that is an intercourse, they become unlawful and they must be taken out of the city and sold elsewhere.

#2632. If they have intercourse with a cow and sheep and camel their urine and dung becomes unclean and drinking their milk will also be unlawful and they must be killed and burned without delay, and the person who had intercourse with them must pay money to the owner. Further, if he had intercourse with any beast its milk becomes unlawful.

97 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:06:55am

A Muslim rape epidemic in sweeping over Europe -- and over many other nations host to immigrants from the Islamic world. The direct connection between the rapes and Islam is irrefutable, as Muslims are significantly overrepresented among convicted rapists and rape suspects. The Muslim perpetrators themselves boast that their crime is justified since their victims were, among other things, not properly veiled.

What is the psychology here? What is the significance of this epidemic? And how do we face it when our own feminists, with a few exceptions, are deafingly silent about it?

SNIP

We are dealing here with premodern, partly archaic thinking that divides its world into two Manichaean halves. Irrespective of the usual statistical remnant of liberal "dissidents", the orthodox ideology bases on an Islamic half that accords to Koran and "prophetic" tradition and a non-Islamic half consisting of unbelievers and disobedient women. The religious war - known as "jihad" - against the latter two groups belongs, therefore, to the most prominent duties of the "believing" Muslim. Its "religious" dimension is boosted enormously by customary family "honor" installing male control from early youth on, often widening into brutal raping, sometimes incestuous punishing patterns. Here a complicated interaction between father, mother, son and daughter comes into play about which, I guess, Dr. Kobrin will give us quite interesting insights.

SNIP

This paradigm expresses itself not only in highly standardized family patterns but also in an equally conformistic education system. All contents, in school and university of almost every Islamic country, are ultimately restricted and tied to Islamic purposes, thereby avoiding abstract thinking categories that could relativate and jeopardize the dogma's absolute uniqueness. By the same token, however, and this is the core of "modern" Islam's tragedy, the male controllers are confined to physical methods of "sublimation" whenever problems arise. Aside from the usual bombing "protest" against Western "arrogance" and "unbelieving morals", the current rape wave is the vital expression of an ongoing jihad against women who under Western influence may drift slowly out of the grip of male Muslim hands.

SNIP

98 Erik The Red  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:07:10am

re: #91 Jetpilot1101

OT: Sounds like Jesse Jackson Junior is "candidate #5" and he apparently offered "Blago" a million bucks for the seat. Any chance he gets indicted?

Any chance he pulls the race card?

Link please.

99 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:07:16am

re: #91 Jetpilot1101

OT: Sounds like Jesse Jackson Junior is "candidate #5" and he apparently offered "Blago" a million bucks for the seat. Any chance he gets indicted?

Any chance he pulls the race card?

zero and one hundred

100 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:07:49am

re: #93 father_of_10

Does the white house have a coniference room?

This just sapping the life out of this thread.

*btw...This is my 3,000 post! Woo Hoo.

101 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:07:58am

with all these wood references, I guess Ole Hickory, Andy Jackson, must be rolling in his grave.

102 cagney  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:00am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

The Archdhimmi of Canterbury needs to be told that UK Muslims calling for terrorism acts to be committed in the UK is offensive to all UK citizens.

103 lifeofthemind  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:06am

re: #78 jcm

Christians return the favor.
Christians find the Archbishop of Canterbury Offensive.

Why couldn't the Queen derail his appointment? Did she really have to swallow it? Her position as Head of the Church is separate from her position (reigning but not ruling) as Queen in Parliament

104 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:07am

re: #98 Erik The Red

Link please.

I don't have a link, just heard it on my local radio station. Let me hunt around for you.

105 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:27am
106 jorline  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:28am

re: #92 Hard Right

That would just break his nose.

We don't want to inflict pain, (snicker), so let's grab both ears and pull real hard!

107 DistantThunder  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:31am

OT My brother informs me that the jr. high school that I attended, Redwood Junior High, in Saratoga, CA. has had it's marching band selected to attended the inauguration out of 1,500 applications.

Would it have anything to do with the fact that this is an extremely affluent community?

I'm thinking Pay to PLAY!

108 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:37am

re: #100 Ford_Prefect

This just sapping the life out of this thread.

*btw...This is my 3,000 post! Woo Hoo.

Now I'm pining for the good old days.

109 Erik The Red  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:49am

re: #104 Jetpilot1101

Thanks I'll also look

110 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:52am

re: #100 Ford_Prefect

This just sapping the life out of this thread.

*btw...This is my 3,000 post! Woo Hoo.

After 3000 posts, have you considered branching out?

111 MandyManners  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:52am

Getting a bit pissed. bbiaw

112 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:08:58am

re: #98 Erik The Red

Link please.

Rush is talking about it right now.

113 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:09:03am

re: #98 Erik The Red

Link please.

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

114 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:09:14am

re: #101 smokefire

with all these wood references, I guess Ole Hickory, Andy Jackson, must be rolling in his grave.

Maple, maple not.

115 jcm  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:09:16am

re: #97 MandyManners

Of course it is our fault for not keeping our women in a bag.......
///////////////////
*spit*

116 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:09:24am

re: #98 Erik The Red

Link please.


its on Drudge

117 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:09:42am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

...once that principle is accepted, both can work together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.

wow - is he a token lefty or what? He should STFU and convert to Islam. Immediately.

118 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:10:16am

re: #110 father_of_10

After 3000 posts, have you considered branching out?

Perhaps, but I don't want to make an ash out of myself.

119 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:10:24am

re: #114 Racer X

Maple, maple not.

seething in one, two, tree

120 cagney  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:10:37am

re: #75 quickjustice

The Limeys will continue to attempt to buy off the Muslim extremists until it becomes obvious that the strategy has failed. Then they'll be confronted with the tough choice: submit or fight back.

By the time that happens, the number of Muslims with extremist views in positions of power including the Police force will make that very difficult.

121 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:10:44am

re: #114 Racer X

Maple, maple not.

Willow make a deciduous already?

122 debutaunt  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:11:00am

re: #54 smokefire

..........at least you CAN LEAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH The Pope is not going to condemn you in a Fatwa, nor send out assassins after you.

But do they leave you on fundraising mailer lists?

123 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:11:11am

HAPPINESS IS........................... pouring a glass of either 12 year old Irish Whiskey, or 15 year old Single Malt Scotch..........................ah decisions , decisions. What to do, what to do.

124 Joan Not of Arc  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:11:28am

Why are we surprised? You can't make cold-blooded killers by being kind and understanding. Otherwise, no one would blow up buses and trains. Look around and one will see that this is common in Islamic societies.

125 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:12:10am

re: #123 smokefire

HAPPINESS IS........................... pouring a glass of either 12 year old Irish Whiskey, or 15 year old Single Malt Scotch..........................ah decisions , decisions. What to do, what to do.

What to do?... DRINK IT!

126 Big Steve  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:12:13am

re: #118 Ford_Prefect

Perhaps, but I don't want to make an ash out of myself.


maybe it would make you more poplar

127 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:12:27am

D*mn. I can't see the forest for the trees.

128 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:12:39am

re: #122 debutaunt

that is what paper shredders are for.

129 Erik The Red  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:12:45am

re: #113 Fat Jolly Penguin

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Unfucking believable. All politicians are covered in shit. We have to vote for the one that stinks the least.

130 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:12:52am

re: #126 Big Steve

maybe it would make you more poplar

maybe knot

131 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:13:06am

re: #126 Big Steve

maybe it would make you more poplar

Yeah, but the pressure could be a beech.

132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:13:14am

We've got to be careful with the tree puns in a Koran thread. Next thing you now, the comments will start saying "There's a jew behind me."

133 jcm  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:13:18am

re: #117 FrogMarch

wow - is he a token lefty or what? He should STFU and convert to Islam. Immediately.

Strip him naked, smear him in pig fat, drop him on the Kabba at the height of the Haj. He'll experience first hand the tolerance of Islam.

I'm only offering him an educational experience, I am not advocating violence in any way... ;-P

135 Erik The Red[deleted]  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:13:34am
136 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:13:46am

re: #90 CyanSnowHawk

I couldn't stomach watching him Larch into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Stop it, Fir cryin' out loud.....
:)

137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:14:15am

re: #131 Ford_Prefect

Yeah, but the pressure could be a beech.

You would definately need to have quite a pair of balsa to handle it.

138 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:14:22am

re: #106 jorline

We don't want to inflict pain, (snicker), so let's grab both ears and pull real hard!

Better get a team of Clydesdales.

139 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:14:27am

re: #133 jcm

Strip him naked, smear him in pig fat, drop him on the Kabba at the height of the Haj. He'll experience first hand the tolerance of Islam.

I'm only offering him an educational experience, I am not advocating violence in any way... ;-P

oh - completely. He must learn to understand. Education is very important for an enlightened society.

140 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:14:38am

re: #136 LGoPs

Stop it, Fir cryin' out loud.....
:)

Quit needling him.

141 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:14:46am

re: #129 Erik The Red

Unfucking believable. All politicians are covered in shit. We have to vote for the one that stinks the least.

Well, you don't have to vote but then you forfeit your right to complain. I personally think that America needs a trainwreck like Carter or Obama every thirty years or so to give us a kick in the ass and get us back to good old fashioned American values. Brace yourself folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

142 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:14:52am

re: #114 Racer X

Maple, maple not.

You are such an ash

143 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:15:12am

re: #125 Ford_Prefect

I'm not now, but the better half is. Spiked Egg Nog. 12 year old RED BREAST POT STILLED IRISH WHISKEY. She is blasphemous.

144 MJBrutus  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:15:22am

I guess there weren't any puppies to kick around.

145 Alouette  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:15:23am

When I first saw this thread header I thought, "Oh gosh, what are they doing to those poor Korean kids."

Never mind then. SSDD.

146 Steve Rogers  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:15:43am

This marks the only time liberals everywhere don't oppose any regulation of non-government schools.

However, let some non-Muslim parents in the U.S. dare home school their own children or send them to a private school, and the same liberals who are silent about the disgusting abuse going on inside such madrassas will pitch a bitch fit to no end screaming about no oversight, no regulation, etc., etc. etc.

Liberals' hypocrisy knows no bounds!

147 cagney  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:16:05am

According to the Lone Voice blog, Anjum Choudray branded Christmas evil on an internet radio message.

[Link: newportcity.blogspot.com...] (warning link contains profrane language)

Muslim lawyer Anjem Choudary brands Christmas 'evil'

Muslim preacher Anjem Choudary has branded Christmas "evil" in a sermon posted on the internet.

The 41-year-old shocked Christians and even those of his own faith by branding yuletide festivities as "the pathway to hellfire".

Choudary, who is chairman of the Society of Muslim Lawyers, ruled out all celebrations, including having a Christmas tree, decorating the house or eating turkey.

In the sermon posted on an Islamic website, he said: "In the world today many Muslims, especially those residing in western countries, are exposed to the evil celebration Christmas.
Many take part in the festival celebrations by having Christmas turkey dinners.

Decorating the house, purchasing Christmas trees or having Christmas turkey meals are completely prohibited by Allah.

"Many still practise this corrupt celebration as a remembrance of the birth of Jesus.

"How can a Muslim possibly approve or participate in such a practice that bases itself on the notion Allah has an offspring?

"The very concept of Christmas contradicts and conflicts with the foundation of Islam.

"Every Muslim has a responsibility to protect his family from the misguidance of Christmas, because its observance will lead to hellfire. Protect your Paradise from being taken away – protect yourself and your family from Christmas."

Choudary is Principal Lecturer at the London School of Shari'ah and a follower of the Islamist militant leader Omar Bakri Mohammed.

148 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:16:13am

re: #141 Jetpilot1101

Well, you don't have to vote but then you forfeit your right to complain. I personally think that America needs a trainwreck like Carter or Obama every thirty years or so to give us a kick in the ass and get us back to good old fashioned American values. Brace yourself folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

We're still trying to recover from Jimmah...

149 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:16:36am

re: #136 LGoPs

Stop it, Fir cryin' out loud.....
:)

I can't Cedar the end of this. It is too good to stop so I wood knot, maple redwood though.

150 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:16:37am

re: #142 Hard Right

You are such an ash

Knot really.

151 Erik The Red  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:16:38am

re: #141 Jetpilot1101

I agree. I hope Obama is only a train wreck and not a mushroom cloud. Please only 4 years.

152 Silhouette  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:16:47am

Geez whiz. At our Sunday School, we give them little ribbons, bookmarks, or other gifts. And feed them crackers or cookies.

We've been doing it all wrong!

/

153 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:17:48am

How long before this turns into a bamboob thread?

154 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:17:51am

re: #140 Ford_Prefect

Quit needling him.

oakey, dokey

155 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:17:59am

re: #148 Fat Jolly Penguin

We're still trying to recover from Jimmah...

Can't you lot pick another nickname for that asshole?

156 smokefire[deleted]  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:18:07am
157 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:18:17am

re: #141 Jetpilot1101

Well, you don't have to vote but then you forfeit your right to complain. I personally think that America needs a trainwreck like Carter or Obama every thirty years or so to give us a kick in the ass and get us back to good old fashioned American values. Brace yourself folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Even if you vote, it's only an illusion. NO POLITICIAN who makes it to DC is there because you wanted them there. They are there because they will be of some use to the plutocracy, even if they don't know it themselves.

Stop fooling yourself.

158 Silhouette  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:18:45am

re: #153 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How long before this turns into a bamboob thread?

p = n/500

It was n/1000 yesterday, but based on everyone's baseness, I've revised.

;-)

159 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:18:53am

re: #150 Racer X

Knot really.

re: #150 Racer X

Knot really.

Cherry well.

160 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:18:57am

re: #149 CyanSnowHawk

I can't Cedar the end of this. It is too good to stop so I wood knot, maple redwood though.

All I know is what my dogwood do to this thread.

161 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:19:19am

re: #155 Jimmah

Can't you lot pick another nickname for that asshole?

Oops. Sorry.

The problem is, just calling him "that asshole" would get confusing, as there are so many of them.

162 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:19:51am

re: #155 Jimmah

Can't you lot pick another nickname for that asshole?

Love the avatar......classic picture of the face of the ROP.
LOL

163 father_of_10  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:20:35am

re: #160 Ford_Prefect

All I know is what my dogwood do to this thread.

Once your get through the veneer, you can get to the heartwood of the matter.

164 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:20:42am

....................thats it, there are way too many tree references here. I'm going nuts.

Time to have afternoon cocktail.

Bye Bye all.

165 Racer X  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:20:48am

re: #153 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How long before this turns into a bamboob thread?

As soon as the woodpeckers show up.

166 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:21:48am

re: #165 Racer X

As soon as the woodpeckers show up.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

167 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:21:51am

re: #161 Fat Jolly Penguin

Oops. Sorry.

The problem is, just calling him "that asshole" would get confusing, as there are so many of them.

Heh. Nevermind - I realise it's an impractical suggestion at this point. I did have the nick from way before I ever heard of Carter (spit) having it though.

168 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:22:15am

re: #4 greggriffith

Heh. Sounds like Catholic school.

No it doesnt. Not in the least bit.
It is one thing to amuse ourselves at expense of the nuns, quite another to announce to the world "Catholic schools are the same as madrassas".

169 the jinxmedic  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:22:28am

re: #102 cagney

The Archdhimmi of Canterbury needs to be told that UK Muslims calling for terrorism acts to be committed in the UK is offensive to all UK citizens.

THIS is the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams.


ABC Williams...

'nuff said.

170 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:22:38am

re: #163 father_of_10

Once your get through the veneer, you can get to the heartwood of the matter.

The grain of this thread is finally getting to the root problem.

171 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:22:40am

re: #101 smokefire

...I guess Ole Hickory, Andy Jackson, must be rolling in his grave.

Every deceased Democrat president from Andrew Jackson through Harry Truman is rolling over in his grave. Slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation were bedrock principles of the Democrat party. They're all looking at Obama and saying WTF!

172 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:22:58am

re: #165 Racer X

As soon as the woodpeckers show up.

I thought those would go after the pussywillows first?

173 jorline  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:23:18am

re: #138 Hard Right

Better get a team of Clydesdales.

They're based out of Europe now aren't they?

174 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:23:34am

re: #155 Jimmah

Can't you lot pick another nickname for that asshole?

How about 'fuckstick' Will that work?

175 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:24:08am

re: #162 LGoPs

It was the most positive image of Islam I could find....lol

176 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:24:22am

re: #78 jcm

F**k the archbishop of Canterbury.

177 saberry0530  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:24:56am

re: #123 smokefire

HAPPINESS IS........................... pouring a glass of either 12 year old Irish Whiskey, or 15 year old Single Malt Scotch..........................ah decisions , decisions. What to do, what to do.

Tranquility is sharing.....

178 razorbacker  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:25:45am

re: #4 greggriffith

I'll be interested to see your net total dings for that. I've never had the pleasurable misery of Catholic education, myself. But since ruler-wielding nuns are a mainstay of pop culture, I suspect there is an element of truth in your jibe.

But I bet some Catholics still down-ding you.

179 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:26:01am

re: #175 Jimmah

It was the most positive image of Islam I could find....lol

I admire your restraint.......LOL

180 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:26:46am

Celebrate Diversity!

181 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:26:51am

re: #135 Erik The Red

Do the 15 year old!

You can get arrested in some places for that

182 2by2  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:27:03am

re: #147 cagney

..the x-mas tree will keeeeel you

183 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:27:19am

re: #174 LGoPs

Fuckstick it is then. Send word.

184 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:28:22am

re: #178 razorbacker

I'll be interested to see your net total dings for that. I've never had the pleasurable misery of Catholic education, myself. But since ruler-wielding nuns are a mainstay of pop culture, I suspect there is an element of truth in your jibe.

But I bet some Catholics still down-ding you.

I had the full experience.....nuns with rulers......Jesuit priests with the 'board of education'...........and I'm perfectly freakin' normal.....I think. Not really sure.
:)

185 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:28:54am

re: #183 Jimmah

Fuckstick it is then. Send word.

The word is given...

186 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:29:31am

re: #177 saberry0530

Tranquility is sharing.....

................well come on over. If you are anywhere near Providence RI, take US-44 east till you get to East Putnam CT.
LIZARDS ARE WELCOME

187 Just Another Four-letter Word  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:29:58am

re: #64 Big Steve

folks I hate to the voice of reason here but when I read the article all of the quotes of abuse were from the children themselves or a parent or relative reporting what the child had reported. I would inject a dose of caution in necessarily believing all of it. I have had occasion, being on a school board, to have head similar accusations and then upon investigation and reports of third parties they have turned out to be untrue.

Big Steve, a dose of skepticism is healthy, but a bathtub full will drown you. Kids can lie out their @$$ when necessary, and they can tell the unadulterated truth as well.

I'd go for the latter in this case. Circumstances warrant it.

JAFLW

188 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:29:59am

re: #186 smokefire

................well come on over. If you are anywhere near Providence RI, take US-44 east till you get to East Putnam CT.
LIZARDS ARE WELCOME

...............oops that is US-44 WEST, SORRY.

189 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:30:04am

re: #166 Ford_Prefect

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

We need to get to the root of the problem.

190 lifeofthemind  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:30:22am

re: #181 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

You can get arrested in some places for that

Is a 15 year old their idea of a spinster?

191 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:30:51am

re: #173 jorline

They're based out of Europe now aren't they?

Aww crud. A team of midgets then.

192 dahozho  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:31:36am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.


SNIP

Has anyone ever asked "Dr" Williams what the islamic equivalent of "Peace on Earth, goodwill towards men" is?

There isn't one. Is everyone sure this guy is actually Christian? He seems to have completely abandoned this faith over another ideology.

193 bosforus  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:31:40am

I work in a building where school children are currently singing "Christmas" songs. They're about 6 songs into their set and I've yet to hear an actual Christmas song. I haven't recognized a single melody! Just sing a normal Christmas song, please!

194 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:32:11am

re: #189 Hard Right

We need to get to the root of the problem.

That's aspen a lot

195 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:32:24am

re: #189 Hard Right

We need to get to the root of the problem.

I don't think we should sycamore of these jokes on people.

196 Hard Right  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:33:12am

re: #194 LGoPs

That's aspen a lot

I'm willing to go out on a limb.

197 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:33:18am

re: #193 bosforus

I work in a building where school children are currently singing "Christmas" songs. They're about 6 songs into their set and I've yet to hear an actual Christmas song. I haven't recognized a single melody! Just sing a normal Christmas song, please!

They must still be running thru the Kwanzaa and Winter Solstice carols.

198 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:33:31am

re: #141 Jetpilot1101

Well, you don't have to vote but then you forfeit your right to complain. I personally think that America needs a trainwreck like Carter or Obama every thirty years or so to give us a kick in the ass and get us back to good old fashioned American values. Brace yourself folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Except that the damage done by and LBJ, Carter, Clinton, or Obama cannot be undone in 30 years. Hell, we're still suffering from LBJ's administration. And Carter vs The Shah of Iran, how's that playing out? Carter/Clinton and the Community Reinvestment Act, (a.k.a. The Law of Unintended Consequences). Or maybe the consequences WERE intended.

199 razorbacker  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:33:40am

re: #184 LGoPs

I had the full experience.....nuns with rulers......Jesuit priests with the 'board of education'...........and I'm perfectly freakin' normal.....I think. Not really sure.
:)

Haven't you heard? Normality is the new mental disease.

200 Tricky Dick  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:33:56am
Students have been slapped, punched and had their ears twisted, according to an unpublished report by an imam based on interviews with victims in the north of England.

This sounds a lot like what I got from the nuns at the catholic elementary school my parents forced me to attend between 1963 and 69. In the catholic high school it was double handed swings to the rearend with a 2x4 with a handle carved into by the father of a very famous NFL football quarterback who shall remain unnamed.

201 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:34:42am

If the situation is anything like the US & Canada, 80% of these "teachers" were trained in Saudi Arabia. Child-abusing sadists.

“There’s a culture that accepts it.”

Yes, and the culture is called "Islam".

202 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:35:05am

re: #196 Hard Right

I'm willing to go out on a limb.

Psst. there is a new open thread. If you leaf here now you can still get there.

203 Just Another Four-letter Word  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:35:22am

re: #101 smokefire

with all these wood references, I guess Ole Hickory, Andy Jackson, must be rolling in his grave.

Y'all are making ashes of yourselves. Wooden you agree?

JAFLW

204 JamesW  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:36:08am

Brings to mind the fact that after 1933, corporal punishment returned to German schools. It just goes to show: if you want people to be brutes, make them victims.

205 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:36:19am

re: #199 razorbacker

Haven't you heard? Normality is the new mental disease.

What is normal? What are cows?

206 bosforus  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:36:32am

re: #197 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They must still be running thru the Kwanzaa and Winter Solstice carols.

I have no idea what they're singing. I hear some jingle bells, piano -ah, I just heard the words "Christmas for the children", still don't recognize the song though. Sorry to sound like a scrooge but I'd rather hear some nice renditions of the classics than some music teacher's project. Bah humbug! Well, at least they're done now.

207 Miss Trixie  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:37:22am

Gnarly.

208 justiceforall  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:37:27am

Sounds like a fraternity hazing. Still wrong though.

209 Just Another Four-letter Word  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:37:57am

re: #135 Erik The Red

Do the 15 year old!

...that is just so WRONG on so many levels!

JAFLW

210 razorbacker  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:38:11am

re: #200 Tricky Dick

In the catholic high school it was double handed swings to the rearend with a 2x4 with a handle carved into by the father of a very famous NFL football quarterback who shall remain unnamed.

In the bad old days, back when corporal punishment still occurred in public schools, I saw a fellow paddled in class. First swat, he smiled and said, "My moms hits harder." Second swat lessened the smile. Third swat happened to spark the kitchen matches he had in his back pocket to light his recess smokes.

211 smokefire[deleted]  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:39:45am
212 LGoPs  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:41:10am

re: #210 razorbacker

In the bad old days, back when corporal punishment still occurred in public schools, I saw a fellow paddled in class. First swat, he smiled and said, "My moms hits harder." Second swat lessened the smile. Third swat happened to spark the kitchen matches he had in his back pocket to light his recess smokes.

Musta lit a fire under his ass.......

213 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:43:25am

The bailout is coming.

[Link: calacanis.com...]

214 uptight  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:46:28am

re: #62 MandyManners

Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.

SNIP

I didn't think Communists believed in God....until I saw Williams.

Will not someone rid us of turbulent priest?

I mean really!

Like all lefties he just does this shit to get up establishment noses and prove how "fucking hard and radical" he is. If it wasn't Muslims he was bending over for it would be anyone else of the day he could wave around as a victim he'd rescued.

Next year "The Archbishop Reaches Out to Satanists"

215 debutaunt  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:47:56am

re: #186 smokefire

................well come on over. If you are anywhere near Providence RI, take US-44 east till you get to East Putnam CT.
LIZARDS ARE WELCOME

Tricky!

216 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:48:02am
The Minister for Community Cohesion, Sadiq Khan, urged his fellow Muslims to turn in those responsible for violence against children.

“We need to have religious leaders saying in clear and religious messages that it's unacceptable and that there's no place in Islam for child abuse. It's pure village culture mentality,” he said. “Everybody should expose this. The neighbours who know about it should expose it, the teachers [at mainstream schools] should expose it. We need a culture which says that whistleblowing on these things is a badge of pride not a badge of shame.”

He added: “We are hiding behind the defence of cultural sensitivities and our children are not being protected.”

Fine words, but there is a bit of irony in there - the idea of 'community cohesion' has been one of the things that helped to shore that defensive barrier of cultural sensitivities up.

217 smokefire  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:49:11am

re: #215 debutaunt

Tricky!

I corrected it.............sorry I am a bit geographically impaired. it is 44 WEST. Anyway, the first one is down the hatch, time for another.

218 smokefire[deleted]  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:50:26am
219 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:51:48am

New Israeli radar can pinpoint rocket launchers

The new radar will be able to provide artillery cannons with a 360-degree view of a battlefield and detect the exact location of rocket launchers. The location will then be transmitted digitally to the cannons or rocket systems deployed nearby, which will be able to fire at the launchers and destroy them.

Cool.

220 Kenneth  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:52:25am

re: #214 uptight

What makes you think he believes in God?

221 Abu Lahab  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:52:35am

Appalling, but not surprising.
Nothing that comes from the UK seems shocking anymore when it comes to Sharia!
Sharia court, calls to implement Sharia by UK bishop, open calls for Jihad, demonstrations with signs saying "behead those who criticize Islam", and an impotent legal system that is turning a blind eye to all that.
Abuse in madrassas is systematic, in my opinion, it helps breaks the spirits of these children and prepare them to accept whatsoever is stuffed in their heads.

222 Just Another Four-letter Word  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:53:30am

re: #213 smokefire

The bailout is coming.

[Link: calacanis.com...]

I pray the House 'pubs will hold firm and filibuster like there's not tomorrow...

JAFLW

223 gop_patriot  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:54:04am

re: #193 bosforus

I work in a building where school children are currently singing "Christmas" songs. They're about 6 songs into their set and I've yet to hear an actual Christmas song. I haven't recognized a single melody! Just sing a normal Christmas song, please!

I heard a commercial for a new "Christmas" song on Nickelodeon yesterday... The main lyrics seemed to be "Yes We Can (be as one, live together, something like that)".

/hack

224 Just Another Four-letter Word  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:55:31am

re: #219 Kenneth

New Israeli radar can pinpoint rocket launchers

Cool.

Yeah, counterbattery radar developed by us. Really Cool Stuff!

JAFLW

225 ROPMA  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 10:56:00am
226 Silhouette  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:01:05am

re: #193 bosforus

I work in a building where school children are currently singing "Christmas" songs. They're about 6 songs into their set and I've yet to hear an actual Christmas song. I haven't recognized a single melody! Just sing a normal Christmas song, please!

For you.

It's Called Christmas...with a Capital "C".

227 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:03:38am

they are violent thugs teaching a violent ideology.
why would anyone be surprised that they are abusive and cruel to young students?

228 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:03:59am

re: #4 greggriffith

Heh. Sounds like Catholic school.

Actually, not a million miles away....lol. Although most of the nuns at my school were peaceful, there was one who would occasionally 'snap' and send a kid flying with a massive slap in the face.

229 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:04:34am

We will never say what the real problem is. So why do we care?

230 rumcrook  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:27:18am
One woman told The Times that her niece Hiba, 7, was slapped across the face so hard by her madrassa teacher that her ear was cut. It later became inflamed and she had to have emergency medical treatment.

When the teacher refused to apologise, Hiba’s aunt, Jamila, insisted that her niece should be moved to another madrassa.

apologize?! If that were my daughter, (and I have a daughter)I wouldnt have met with them to ask for an apology, and the emergency medical treatment would have been for the teacher because I would have gone thier and shoved a desk up thier ass sideways untill it was tickling the back of thier teeth.

231 hermit  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:31:49am

re: #135 Erik The Red

re: #211 smokefire

re: #218 smokefire

So, uh, guys....how exactly is that appropriate for a thread on child abuse? It's flat out gross.

Charles, could we get a clean up, please?

232 mean Gene  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:36:41am

So little slips out about how Muslims raise their children.
When we do hear about it it is repulsive.
I remember the cases in madrassas in Pakistan where the boys were sexually molested by their teachers.
And now beatings in the UK even.
I remember watching an ''imam'' on MEMRITV in the UK going on about beating children, even as young as 7 if they do certain things (associated with assimilation) and he also explained how hard it is to keep all the names of one's children straight.
Just disgusting.
I doubt any real love (principled, brotherly or familial) exists in Islam.....just the ''erotic/bestial" version.

233 Darwin Akbar  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:37:48am

In the UK, the Nanny State will no longer place foster children in the homes of people who smoke cigarettes, uses the anti-terrorism statutes to spy on paperboys who don't have work permits. forces people to remove hazards - i.e., welcome mats - from their doorsteps, forbids 10-year olds from biking to school, forces parents who drive their own (handicapped) child to school to get a police background chec, fingerprints its own schoolchildren and prohibits old ladies with strollers to ride buses.

(all of these stories can be found on Ken Frost's Nannyknowsbest blog, BTW).

Will it do anything here or turn a blind eye lest it offend the sensibilities of their new Muslim masters?

Here's what Mark Steyn wrote just the other day:

Sunset in the West [Mark Steyn]

Your Demographic Deathwatch story of the day:

Karen Dunnell, the [United Kingdom's] National Statistician, will bring together a wide range of evidence on the growing number of older people, and examine the changes this will bring to society and the economy... Three months ago the ONS revealed that Britain is home to more pensioners than children for the first time in the country's history. There are 11.58 million pensioners - classed as men over 65 and women over 60 - compared with 11.52 million under-16s.

Where's the harm in that? We can all live longer healthier lives than our grandparents did, can't we? Well, up to a point:

The NHS already restricts access to expensive new drugs that could benefit older age groups — such as sufferers of Alzheimer's and macular degeneration, the leading cause of blindness — amid fears that the costs could cripple the health service...

Britain's population profile is ageing despite record immigration and the rise in the number of immigrant women having children.

Which would tend to support the view that a dependence on mass immigration is evidence of a structural defect in society that immigration alone can never resolve. The conventional solution of homo economicus to the lack of homegrown young people is to import them. The remorseless aging of Britain suggests that no society in serious demographic decline can have an immigration rate high enough to compensate for it. That's before you consider the broader implications of such a strategy:
The Office for National Statistics (ONS) will publish figures showing that the UK's birth rate surged last year to a 30-year high, driven by a baby boom among immigrant families. Among all babies born in the UK, 23 per cent had mothers who were born abroad. Whereas British-born women have only 1.7 children each on average, the figure is 3.9 for Bangladeshi-born women in Britain, and almost five for Pakistani-born women.

By the way, that British-born 1.7 is only kept that high by the significantly higher birth rates of British-born women of Pakistani and Bangladeshi descent who now account for the main demographic energy in most English cities. Britain's future will be more Muslim. The only question is how much more. But, at some point, those fertility rates put a question mark over the social compact. In 20 or 30 years' time, will a young, demographically healthy Muslim working population with vast extended families be willing to pay confiscatory tax rates for the shuffleboard years of an aged, childless, fast shriveling Anglo-Celtic population? All welfare societies presuppose a commonality of interest that in the Britain of 2025 will no longer be there.

234 hermit  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:40:23am

Thank you, Charles.

235 rumcrook  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:46:20am

re: #233 Darwin Akbar

All welfare societies presuppose a commonality of interest that in the Britain of 2025 will no longer be there

to qoute jim carey--- Bingo! Yatzee!, wee have a winner.

236 infidel4ever  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 11:52:22am

Well, this beating of poor Muslim children happens also in Dutch Koran classes. So sad, of course, for those poor little tykes. Funny the parents don't say anything, I am sure if an infidel teacher were to hit a Muslim child that kids whole family would pay the teacher a visit to teach him some respect!
Anyway, one of our "very integrated" Muslim politicians (Ahmed Marcouch, neat little MB beard, you know the stealth jihadi type) has now arranged for Koran lessons to be given in our public schools. See, Muslims have a problem, and you solve it by bringing Islam to the infidel. And since we have this unholy alliance between the left and the Christians this tactic will work every time. Welcome to the future Lebanon on the North Sea...

237 NCusTranshumanist  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 1:31:16pm

One can only hope they are inspired to take the Hirsi Ali path. Or any path that involves deconversion.

238 cagney  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 1:36:22pm

re: #233 Darwin Akbar

The population explosion you speak of is only sustainable under the present generous welfare system that operates in our country.

The cracks in this welfare system is already showing and with the present economic climate years of austerity has arrived The only outcome is reform. That will cut down on the breeding.

239 pie22  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 2:21:47pm

So many baby strollers to blow up. So little time. Gotta teach em' while their still young and impressionable. These are not people, they are swines.

240 amateurpundit  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 3:13:52pm

The students should count their blessings. In Pakistan, they'd cut your ears off.

241 Pickle  Wed, Dec 10, 2008 4:09:21pm

If you don't eat your mansaf, you can't have any baklava! How can you have any baklava if you don't eat your mansaf!


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