Gee, what's wrong with 2 states? I mean they have done so well with what they've been given stolen already!

You say peace and I say pieces
You build fences and I throw feces
peace, pieces, fences, feces,
let's call the whole thing off!

RIGHT ON!

Sure, 2 states. One for the law-abiding, peace-loving, non-daycare center blowing-up folks, located in Israel.

One of the others, located in Hades.

Works for me.

I can't watch video now at Work.

What is their alternative?

It is an emergency.

I thought they already had THREE states - Israel, West Bank (Fatah), and Gaza (Hamas).

I'll be keen to see how Obama tackles the Middle East. It's easy to dazzle people in your home country, where people are disposed to love you because they like "hope."

Not so much, over there.

(As an aside, Charles, in case you missed it: KHQA has clarified itself.)

I hope Obambi doesn't force the Saudi "peace" plan either.

re: #5 WrathofG-d

I can't watch video now at Work.

What is their alternative?

Ok, watched the video...this guy makes way too much sense.

Gee. What doesn't this guy get? Jewish State Bad, Muslim States Good. Simple.

Jordan is Palestine.

re: #8 Cognito

(As an aside, Charles, in case you missed it: KHQA has clarified itself.)

Your inner nudnik is awakening.

Ok- I had to stop the video at Moshe. I'm in tears.

The Obama did not win by a landslide, but he did get most of the Jewish votes. Idiots, all.

re: #9 sneezey

I hope Obambi doesn't force the Saudi "peace" surrender plan either.

I fixed that for you.

Barry, they already did a 2 state solution, Israel and Jordan. West Bank and Gaza are squatters.

I have the same question as Wrath of God; what the alternative?

re: #16 vagabond trader

Couldn't have said it better myself. For many, as long as there is a (D) next to the candidates name its enough to pull the lever.

If the "Palestinians" do not have a state, then what happens?

re: #15 Sharmuta

Ok- I had to stop the video at Moshe. I'm in tears.

It stops footage right after that, and its the guy speaking for the rest of it.

Palestinian leader Abbas attacks Hamas over haj

Your text to link...

re: #19 buzzsawmonkey

Oh yes, like my former friend, a liberal Jew, emailed me when Rahmn Emanuel was named WH COS. THAT was supposed to show me how foolish my concerns for Israel are.We have not spoken since.

Oopsy... Obama Met With Blagojevich in Chicago On Nov. 5 To Discuss Senate Seat

OUCH?

[Link: www.dragondirt.org...]

The alternative is Gaza is Egypt, Palestinian Authority is Jordan.

re: #29 Ben Hur

The alternative is Gaza is Egypt, Palestinian Authority is Jordan.

Like they were BEFORE 1967.

'It's just [as] idiotic as trying to give away the Jewish homeland to people who publically, constantly over and over again speak of the annihilation of the Jewish people. Do we not believe what they say?'

re: #14 Ben Hur

Your inner nudnik is awakening.

I took a lot of crap, on that thread, for not taking the KHQA story as true and delaying judgment.

So yeah, I'm glad Charles updated it.

Buzzsawmonkey,
Transfer to where? Jordan?

Israelis, if they're as smart as I think they are, will do something in the next 45 days to establish some sort of norm regarding their territorial integrity. With arms and men, not ppwk or money.
Terrorism has been a terrifically successful method of undermining their sovereignty for three generations. When Obama takes office, meaningful support from the U.S. will cease (sorry, it just will).
I hate to think of a day when we're de facto supporting Hamas, et al, and de jure hanging the Izzies out to dry. I can definitely see it happening.

re: #16 vagabond trader

The Obama did not win by a landslide, but he did get most of the Jewish votes. Idiots, all.

You don't understand. When a Republican gets 54%, they don't have anything close to a mandate, and obviously will have trouble getting Americans behind them.

When a Democrat gets 52% of the vote, it's an overwhelming victory and a definitive mandate!

Obama wants to 'reboot' America's image in the Muslim world

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Last update - 19:16 10/12/2008

UN General Assembly chief tries to block Israeli envoy's address

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

AH, things are sure looking...ur...I guess down!

re: #22 Pastorius

If the "Palestinians" do not have a state, then what happens?

Well, then they would start launching rockets and suicide attacks.

Oh wait...

January 20, 2009 schedule:

11:59 AM - Bush announced that the U.S. has fired nuclear missles have been fired upon Iran.
12:00 PM - 0bama sworn in as president.

re: #20 Pastorius

Perhaps they need to start doing this and more.

Shas chairman and Industry, Trade and Labor Minister Eli Yishai said that Israel should consider reinstating the policy of targeted assassinations.

"[Israel must perform] immediate surgical strikes against Hamas leadership, as well as those performing acts of terror, firing Kassams and mortar shells at Israel," he said.

That video disappeared dang quick. Is there another citation on YouTube for it?

The solution is the same as it should have been in 1948 - relocate all Palestinians who are not currently Israeli citizens to the real Paelstinian nation of Jordan. I have come full circle on this. I orginally believed in relocation but then became a supporter of a so-called 2-state solution until I saw the utter and abject failure of the Gaza experiment. I'm now back with this guy - Israel (including Gaza and the West Bank) as a Jewish State and Jordan for Palestinians. Period.

re: #32 Cognito

I took a lot of crap, on that thread, for not taking the KHQA story as true and delaying judgment.

So yeah, I'm glad Charles updated it.

Cool.

Just meant to not start harping on something here from the last thread over and over again.

re: #36 Nevergiveup

Obama wants to 'reboot' America's image in the Muslim world

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Last update - 19:16 10/12/2008

UN General Assembly chief tries to block Israeli envoy's address

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

AH, things are sure looking...ur...I guess down!

May the United Nations building sink into the East River.

re: #40 Venezuela lover

That video disappeared dang quick. Is there another citation on YouTube for it?

I can still get to it.

a few global hawks or predators 24/7 should do it. re: #39 Bubblehead II

re: #42 Ben Hur

Cool.

Just meant to not start harping on something here from the last thread over and over again.

Which of course, is NOT my role, so do whatever you do, Cog.

re: #36 Nevergiveup

Obama wants to 'reboot' America's image in the Muslim world
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Last update - 19:16 10/12/2008

UN General Assembly chief tries to block Israeli envoy's address

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

AH, things are sure looking...ur...I guess down!

I think the Blue Screen of Death is more likely...

re: #47 eschew_obfuscation

I think the Blue Screen of Death is more likely...

Abort, Retry, Fail

37 Kragar.

I think you just got to the heart of it. There is no solution.

If you don't give them a state, they kill Jews.
If you give them a state, they kill Jews.
If you transfer them to Jordan and/or Egypt, they kill Jews.
If you give them the Right of Return, they kill Jews.

I don't really understand what 18 is proposing, other than, "this far, and no further."

Which seems like a good idea to me.

Good to see some there are standing up to the suicidal madness that has gripped Israel of late.

re: #5 WrathofG-d

I can't watch video now at Work.

What is their alternative?

Zero specified. But I haven't looked at their website. But he does say that a two state solution means the end of Israel being a Jewish state. WTF does that mean? I thought it was the one state solution that would drown Israel demographically. Or maybe he thinks the two state solution would involve a flood of Palis back into Israel proper? Very confusing. They need a better discussion of what they mean.

The Israeli people had better hope there really is a "God of Israel"!
It's the only hope I see for their survival!

Our little swerve to the left has come at a very bad time!

I have mixed feelings aobut the whole thing. that land was stripped from the Jews at the time of Romans, the temple is indeed Jewish no matter what the palastinians say, but at the same time, they have to live somewhere. I think if the neighboring states which took them in had given them citizenship and let them off the "reservations" It would have pacified the whole deal quite a bit. But let's face it, Israel has been the better "steward" of the land because they made it bloom. The palistinians have no intrest in doing so, it wasn't that long ago that they were handed a bunch of greenhouses to grow crops (I think it was set up by Bill gates or Ted Turner, can't remember who for sure) and all they did was loot them and destroy them because they didn't want anything tainted by Americans...

re: #15 Sharmuta

Ok- I had to stop the video at Moshe. I'm in tears.

Yes, I agree. That was really a "Wow" and touching moment. When you see that innocent child crying out for a mother ("ema") he will never know, and will never come to him again, is really heartbreaking.

re: #16 vagabond trader

The Obama did not win by a landslide, but he did get most of the Jewish votes. Idiots, all.

Great point. All Americans, most particularly American Jews who voted for Obama must have had other more important priorities. I get that, but nobody should act shocked when he acts as advertised.

re: #33 Pastorius

Buzzsawmonkey,
Transfer to where? Jordan?

"Transfer" does not mean physically moving people, it means moving the border.

People who advocate the "transfer" of the ISraeli Arabs in the "Triangle" - (yes, we had one first) in Northern Israel don't actually advocate "cleansing" those areas of Arabs, just moving the border so that instead of being a welfare burden on the state they hate, they would be part of their brethren's Palestinina Authority.

Redraw the map.

Unless you are fishing and are trying to bait someone into wanting to set up camps.

Which I'm sure you're not.

This is from their blog:

"One Of the18" said...

Our first step is to stop 2-state. We also have ideas about alternatives, but we can't let that get in the way right now, since there is not yet a consensus about the correct alternative.

For now, we must focus on what IS clear: NO TO 2-STATE.

Ok, the video is back. Move along.

Mumbai is not in Israel.

re: #54 Marvo76

Those greenhouses were funded by someone whom I can not rightcome up with their names but it was NOT Turner or Gates

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

Gimme a "T"
Gimme an "R"
Gimme an "A"
Gimme an "N"
Gimme an "S"
Gimme an "F"
Gimme an "E"
Gimme an "R"

What's that spell?

One of my lefty friends had the idea a decade ago of offering severance payments (big, but would have been cheaper than all the military ops) to anyone who moves from West Bank/ Gaza to a non-Israel country.

Obama's platform is to bring Israel back to the territory of 1967 with a rehashed version of the Clinton Oslo accords. It didn't satisfy the Palestinians then.

57 BenHur,
Redraw the map.

Unless you are fishing and are trying to bait someone into wanting to set up camps.

Which I'm sure you're not.

Nope. That wouldn't be a solution that I would recommend.

My question to your "redraw the map" solution is, haven't Jordan and Egypt made it very clear that they don't want the Palestinians in their countries?

re: #61 buzzsawmonkey

No, it means physically moving people.

Just like the Jews were physically moved out of Arab countries after Israel was founded.

Just like the Muslims were physically moved out of newly-independent India, and the Hindus out of newly-independent Pakistan.

Just like the Poles and Germans were physically moved out of Germany or Poland after WWII.

Yes, I understand that.

But the only real way of a modern transfer is to just move the border and give all the potential 100s of billions of future Pali aide money to the Ewok King.

It's amazing how nowadays people are so dug up in the dangerous liberal cesspool as most trivial notions found in any part of this video are nothing but almost entirely marginalized.

I blame Israel's leadership and public for the past few generations for allowing themselves to be stepped on, and fade away from their fulfillment of Eretz Israel, heritage and pride.

re: #56 opnion

Would it surprise you to know that there are many American Jews who care little for Israel, or give the importance of its survival lip service at best.

Well Done.
Can I donate?

63 Sunlight,
One of my lefty friends had the idea a decade ago of offering severance payments (big, but would have been cheaper than all the military ops) to anyone who moves from West Bank/ Gaza to a non-Israel country.

Now that sounds like a good idea.

re: #50 Pastorius

37 Kragar.

I think you just got to the heart of it. There is no solution.

If you don't give them a state, they kill Jews.
If you give them a state, they kill Jews.
If you transfer them to Jordan and/or Egypt, they kill Jews.
If you give them the Right of Return, they kill Jews.

I don't really understand what 18 is proposing, other than, "this far, and no further."

Which seems like a good idea to me.

My opinion, Complete lockdown. No traffic either way between Israel and Palestine. Any attack from Palestine into Israel means immeadiate response thru airstrikes and artillery. If the Palis want to form a stable government, more power to them, if not, they can rot in their own shit.

And Jerusalem is Israel's. The Palis can fuck right off.

re: #52 Sunlight

I can't tell you what he meant, but I HIGHLY advise you & everyone else to read the PLO Phased Plan!

What a great video.
What a fucking shame.

re: #62 Nevergiveup

Those greenhouses were funded by someone whom I can not rightcome up with their names but it was NOT Turner or Gates

It was Gates...

OT:
MKV!
science!

re: #65 Pastorius

57 BenHur,
Redraw the map.

Unless you are fishing and are trying to bait someone into wanting to set up camps.

Which I'm sure you're not.

Nope. That wouldn't be a solution that I would recommend.

My question to your "redraw the map" solution is, haven't Jordan and Egypt made it very clear that they don't want the Palestinians in their countries?

Nothing money couldn't take care of.

The Ewok king, like most of the illigitamate, western colonialism stooges that run Arab countries are so concerned about proving their legitimacy, they'd take to dough to stay in power.

re: #72 WrathofG-d

I can't tell you what he meant, but I HIGHLY advise you & everyone else to read the PLO Phased Plan!

I agree. Unfortunately, it is moving along according to plan. It is the peace of Saladin.

re: #62 Nevergiveup

Those greenhouses were funded by someone whom I can not rightcome up with their names but it was NOT Turner or Gates

James Wolfensohn, a former World Bank president.

re: #68 vagabond trader

Would it surprise you to know that there are many American Jews who care little for Israel, or give the importance of its survival lip service at best.

Exactly. Majority of American Jews hardly give a second thought about Israel.

They think they are assimilated. So did the European Jews.

re: #74 eschew_obfuscation

It was Gates...

He might have facilitated the transfer, but the greenhouses themselves were funded by another entity when they were built and functioning under Jewish ownership.

re: #61 buzzsawmonkey

Or Christians were forcibly removed from Mediterranean Spain?

People go far back in History to justify current atrocities. If anyone ever had a truly "moral" right to a piece of land, it was the first homo-sapiens squatting in some African savannah. Since then, it's been a matter of earning borders and attempting to defend them. The "right" to land is a joke.

If all out war were an allowable response to an attack by one state into the other state, I'd be all for a two state solution.
But, it seems that Israel is to be bits and pieced away until nothing is left and no nation on earth will defend its right to defend itself.

re: #79 ted

James Wolfensohn, a former World Bank president.

Right. That was one of the names I was searching for,

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

What is this "modern" crap?

What is there that suddenly decrees that people who have no intention of doing anything except living in their own shit and taking occasional time out to murder their neighbors have some perpetual title to one particular spot on earth?

They are not getting on buses.

Move the borders from under there feet.

I'd love to see Uhm el Fachem in Jordan.

re: #68 vagabond trader

Would it surprise you to know that there are many American Jews who care little for Israel, or give the importance of its survival lip service at best.

No, it does not surprise me, but I just don't want anybody to act like that didn't know where Obama is at. He & Michelle attended more than one pro -Palistinian function in their Hyde Park neighborhood. He has picked a dog in the fight.

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

Gimme a "T"
Gimme an "R"
Gimme an "A"
Gimme an "N"
Gimme an "S"
Gimme an "F"
Gimme an "E"
Gimme an "R"

What's that spell?

SERF RANT?

Ask all advocates of the two state solution if jews can live in the Palestinian state as Arabs now live in Israel proper.

If the answer is yes, why are Jewish "settlers" such a problem and why did all jews have to leave Gaza?

If Arabs are allowed to stay as full citizens in the Jewish state and are protected, but jews must leave all Arabs territories, you are creating a racist apartheid state, like Saudi Arabia. Can Christians and Hindus also live in the Palestinian State? I am sure the answer is no, but nobody seems to be asking this key question.

Is that what America wants? Does that reflect American values?

re: #58 wrenchwench

This is from their blog:

i want a bumper sticker "no to 2 state"

re: #63 Sunlight

One of my lefty friends had the idea a decade ago of offering severance payments (big, but would have been cheaper than all the military ops) to anyone who moves from West Bank/ Gaza to a non-Israel country.

Muslim nations could have easily taken in all the refugees. They didn't and don't want them. Aside from the obvious problems that would occur they are too valuable a tool to loose.

re: #63 Sunlight

It'll never happen. The arabs need the pali's to foment grievances against the Jews.

BTW - from what I remember of Obama's plan for the two state issue it was to cut Israel in half in order to join the two pali territories. So the pali's would have one solid block of real estate and the Jews would have the two states.

re: #76 buzzsawmonkey

What is this "modern" crap?

What is there that suddenly decrees that people who have no intention of doing anything except living in their own shit and taking occasional time out to murder their neighbors have some perpetual title to one particular spot on earth?

Though you may have a point.

The left LOVES Eminent Domain!

suggested reading...

good stuff

re: #94 buzzsawmonkey

The Left is Evident Ptomaine; it poisons everything it touches.

OK, now you're getting all Buzzsawmonkey on me.

My brain hurts.

HAHAHHA!

BBL

re: #92 vapig

It'll never happen. The arabs need the pali's to foment grievances against the Jews.

BTW - from what I remember of Obama's plan for the two state issue it was to cut Israel in half in order to join the two pali territories. So the pali's would have one solid block of real estate and the Jews would have the two states.

Boy, I pray to God that Kadima or Labor doesn't pull a victory out of their ass in February. We need somebody stern who can oppose Obama...Moishe Feiglin would do the trick.

re: #57 Ben Hur

Ben,

Even actual transfer of people doesn't equal "camps".

I personally advocate the actual physical transfer of populations between Jordan, Egypt, and Israel. Jews into Israel, and Non-Jews who do not accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state to whatever country of their choice. This scenario has been done in numerous other locations without "camps", and has succeeded. It is not a "racist" or "evil" or whatever derogatory label it has been given by the Arabs who obviously oppose it, concept, but one that would once and for all cure the Arab-Israeli conflict.

What Israel, and the world must acknowledge is that no matter what they give the Arabs, they will NEVER be happy with a Jewish Israel. Even if you make them citizens, and give them the full rights of all other citizens, they will nonetheless reject the existence of a Jewish state.

They don't want to drive down streets named after Hertz, and Baba Sale, and Rabbi Nachmon of Breslov. They cannot accept the Israeli National Anthem that describes the 2000 year dream and yearning of the Jewish heart. They cannot proudly live under a flag that represents the Mogen David, and a Jewish prayer tallis.

Thinking that they can, or will ever except this existence, is a pathetic delusion that is offensive to the Arab/Muslim, and exactly what has kept the Conflict going since before 1930.

They Must Go...Transfer is the Resolution.

re: #65 Pastorius

57 BenHur,
Redraw the map.

Unless you are fishing and are trying to bait someone into wanting to set up camps.

Which I'm sure you're not.

Nope. That wouldn't be a solution that I would recommend.

My question to your "redraw the map" solution is, haven't Jordan and Egypt made it very clear that they don't want the Palestinians in their countries?

Neither do the Israeli's? Isn't that the crux of the problem right there... nobody wants them.

OK I give up, wot's the 18?

All I get is the spinning circle of death.

re: #57 Ben Hur

"Transfer" does not mean physically moving people, it means moving the border.

People who advocate the "transfer" of the ISraeli Arabs in the "Triangle" - (yes, we had one first) in Northern Israel don't actually advocate "cleansing" those areas of Arabs, just moving the border so that instead of being a welfare burden on the state they hate, they would be part of their brethren's Palestinina Authority.

Redraw the map.

Unless you are fishing and are trying to bait someone into wanting to set up camps.

Which I'm sure you're not.

The purpose of the two state solution is to allow Israel to remain a Jewish state. A democratic one state solution must therefore necessarily involve the mass disenfranchisement or worse of millions of Israeli non-Jews.
I heard nothing from this person regarding this issue.
Could you please explain how moving the border is different from a 2 state solution?

re: #78 Creeping Eruption

I agree. Unfortunately, it is moving along according to plan. It is the peace of Saladin.

Exactly according to plan! That is what frightens me the most. its "text book" phased plan, and the world is ignoring it.

re: #102 itellu3times

OK I give up, wot's the 18?

Pastrami with Swiss. Its to die for.

Israeli envoy to U.K. accuses church service of being anti-Semitic

The carol Twelve Days of Christmas was sung as: "Twelve assassinations/Eleven homes demolished/Ten wells obstructed/Nine sniper towers/Eight gunships firing/Seven checkpoints blocking/Six tanks a-rolling/Five settlement rings. Four falling bombs/Three trench guns/Two trampled doves/And an uprooted olive tree."

The carol was part of an "alternative" event called 'Bethlehem Now: Nine Alternative Lessons and Carols' that took place at the end of November in the Wren church of St James's in Central London, and was organized by anti-Israel campaigners, including one liberal Jewish group.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

re: #92 vapig

It'll never happen. The arabs need the pali's to foment grievances against the Jews.

BTW - from what I remember of Obama's plan for the two state issue it was to cut Israel in half in order to join the two pali territories. So the pali's would have one solid block of real estate and the Jews would have the two states.

As much as I fear Obama, I never read that anywhere.

Iran in high alert after photos of Zionist Ninja Squirrels are released on the internet.

88 One pissed off Yid,
I agree with everything you said there.

I would only say that, yes, Christians (Copts) are allowed to live in "Palestine". In fact, Fatah flies Methodists and Presbyterians and other old-line Christians in from all over the world to introduce them to the Potemkin Village of Coptland.

re: #86 opnion

No, it does not surprise me, but I just don't want anybody to act like that didn't know where Obama is at. He & Michelle attended more than one pro -Palistinian function in their Hyde Park neighborhood. He has picked a dog in the fight.

Obama has told the Chicago Tribune that a high priority for him is to repair relations with Muslim nations & Islam in general.
If I lived in Israel , that would make me nervous.
He also declares that he will take the oath of office using his full name , "Barack Hussein Obama." Just wondering if mentioning his own middle name will make him a racist?

re: #95 jelo

suggested reading...

good stuff

She's been attacked as being untrustworthy and biased (of course).

I'm hesitant to use that book as a source without further sources -- the only problem is, most of the things cited in that book are first-hand research.

I agree with this guy's overall point but he's over the top on a few things.

If a two state solution becomes a reality, it will no longer be a Jewish state. They will take the "Jewish" out.

That just doesn't follow. It certainly follows from a one state solution (spit!), but the only way the two state solution (which I also oppose, BTW, in the way it's usually meant) leads to the end of a Jewish state is a) if it includes the "return" of "refugees" (which isn't a necessary component) or b) if the new Arab state uses its newfound sovereignty to launch a successful attack of annihilation on the Jewish state (which could, of course, happen, but also isn't a necessary outcome).

I actually have no problem with a two state solution, the one state being Israel and the second state being the Jordan, which constitutes 75% of "Palestine" already and, aside from its Arabian refugee population consists mostly of palestinian arabs anyway.

Also, Obama did not win in a "landslide."

Great video.

Go!

re: #99 WrathofG-d

I concur.

re: #61 buzzsawmonkey

No, it means physically moving people.

Just like the Jews were physically moved out of Arab countries after Israel was founded.

Just like the Muslims were physically moved out of newly-independent India, and the Hindus out of newly-independent Pakistan.

Just like the Poles and Germans were physically moved out of Germany or Poland after WWII.

That is what Israel would have to do in order to have a viable one-state solution. A desire to avoid this awful reality is why most Israelis and diaspora Jews cling to the hope of a 2 state solution.

re: #112 opnion

Obama has told the Chicago Tribune that a high priority for him is to repair relations with Muslim nations & Islam in general.
If I lived in Israel , that would make me nervous.
He also declares that he will take the oath of office using his full name , "Barack Hussein Obama." Just wondering if mentioning his own middle name will make him a racist?

I don't really care if he uses his middle name when he takes the oath. I will not be listening.

re: #57 Ben Hur

"Transfer" does not mean physically moving people, it means moving the border.

People who advocate the "transfer" of the ISraeli Arabs in the "Triangle" - (yes, we had one first) in Northern Israel don't actually advocate "cleansing" those areas of Arabs, just moving the border so that instead of being a welfare burden on the state they hate, they would be part of their brethren's Palestinina Authority.

Redraw the map.

Unless you are fishing and are trying to bait someone into wanting to set up camps.

Which I'm sure you're not.

Except that Olmert has already said he is getting ready to transfer (as in physically moving) 150,000 Jews from Judea/Samaria to the Negev. They will be put in "temporary camps."

Palestinians are in favor of the Two-State Solution, as a stepping stone to the One-State Final Solution, and thence directly to their very own Failed State Solution.

re: #108 Nevergiveup

As much as I fear Obama, I never read that anywhere.

I read it either on his or that Rice woman's site.

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Palestinians are in favor of the Two-State Solution, as a stepping stone to the One-State Final Solution, and thence directly to their very own Failed State Solution.

Oh, so they're using the Pakistan playbook?

I think it is clear to all parties that no matter what Israel does (except for mass suicide) the Pali's and Islamists will never be satisfied. If Israel gives 90 percent of her territory then Pali's will come right back and demand 90 percent of what is left because it is "holy" ground. Everyone knows what the aim of this 60 year project has been the destruction of Israel and the Jews in the Middle East. Europe and the UN have given into the dark-side and we need a Luke Skywalker to ride into town and clean up the place...Haar! May the force be with us mates!

re: #121 vapig

I read it either on his or that Rice woman's site.

Well nothing Rice says would surprise me.

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Both Jerusalem and The Temple-neither were part of/mentioned in the Koran, tho are now claimed as such. And any Arab/ Palestinian left in Israels' borders who is caught aiding/abetting-gets evicted to Lebanon, along with ANY family still inside Israels' borders-just to be SURE...

re: #118 Nevergiveup

I don't really care if he uses his middle name when he takes the oath. I will not be listening.

Oh I probably will listen. I just find it ironic , all the fuss about usage of his middle name & now he announces that he will swear in with it.

re: #88 onepistoffyid

Say, wasn't the population of Bethlehem something like 70% Christian only a few years ago? Then the PA took over. Now it's what? 20% and desperate?

Let the Palestinians prove (1) they can have a territory like Gaza without using it to attack their neighbors, (2) that they can respect minorities like Jews and Christians, and (3) that they respect archaeological antiquities. Until they SHOW us they are capable of minimal decency, to hell with their claims.

re: #127 opnion

Oh I probably will listen. I just find it ironic , all the fuss about usage of his middle name & now he announces that he will swear in with it.

You probably have a stronger stomach than me.

re: #114 Lynn B.

I agree with this guy's overall point but he's over the top on a few things.

That just doesn't follow. It certainly follows from a one state solution (spit!), but the only way the two state solution (which I also oppose, BTW, in the way it's usually meant) leads to the end of a Jewish state is a) if it includes the "return" of "refugees" (which isn't a necessary component) or b) if the new Arab state uses its newfound sovereignty to launch a successful attack of annihilation on the Jewish state (which could, of course, happen, but also isn't a necessary outcome).

I actually have no problem with a two state solution, the one state being Israel and the second state being the Jordan, which constitutes 75% of "Palestine" already and, aside from its Arabian refugee population consists mostly of palestinian arabs anyway.

Also, Obama did not win in a "landslide."

fine but can jews live in the Palestinian state? If not, I am not ok with it and the US shouldn't be either...Israel isn't an apartheid state and the Arab state shouldn't be either.

re: #119 Alouette

That is INSANE! I thought they got rid of that asshole.

re: #126 Pietr

Both Jerusalem and The Temple-neither were part of/mentioned in the Koran, tho are now claimed as such. And any Arab/ Palestinian left in Israels' borders who is caught aiding/abetting-gets evicted to Lebanon, along with ANY family still inside Israels' borders-just to be SURE...

It's pretty convenient... a mystical unnamed "far off holy place" IS mentioned in the koran. Muslims just claim that that far off holy place = jerusalem.

re: #98 traderjoe9

Boy, I pray to God that Kadima or Labor doesn't pull a victory out of their ass in February. We need somebody stern who can oppose Obama...Moishe Feiglin would do the trick.

Feiglin is #20 on the Likud list now, I believe.

re: #114 Lynn B.

Also, Obama did not win in a "landslide."

To quibble with that point, if you look at the electoral percentages, Obama did indeed win in a landslide.

List them as a state sponsor of terrorism and prevent Israel or anyone else from giving them 100 million shekels as Israel is giving Hamas currently.

re: #127 opnion

More calculating than ironic. This is one Jew who shall not be played by a Chicago thug.

re: #133 Lynn B.

Feiglin is #20 on the Likud list now, I believe.

Can you explain to me why thats a big deal? I don't know details about intra-likud politics... but #20 seems low to me, and what does the order of the list matter for the party as a whole?

re: #126 Pietr

Both Jerusalem and The Temple-neither were part of/mentioned in the Koran, tho are now claimed as such. And any Arab/ Palestinian left in Israels' borders who is caught aiding/abetting-gets evicted to Lebanon, along with ANY family still inside Israels' borders-just to be SURE...

Yup. The Temple should be restored as much as possible and completely under Jewish control. I'm willing to bet that damn dome will be taken better care of my them than the Temple has been under the Imams.

re: #129 Nevergiveup

You probably have a stronger stomach than me.

I won't be particularly entertained & at least to me it is a shame that it is happening, but you know a piece of history blah, blah, blah.

re: #128 wolfie

Say, wasn't the population of Bethlehem something like 70% Christian only a few years ago? Then the PA took over. Now it's what? 20% and desperate?

Let the Palestinians prove (1) they can have a territory like Gaza without using it to attack their neighbors, (2) that they can respect minorities like Jews and Christians, and (3) that they respect archaeological antiquities. Until they SHOW us they are capable of minimal decency, to hell with their claims.

I couldn't agree more. Now lets find some high ranking official to say that. Either in Israel or the USA? And their lack of respect for archaeological sites isn't mentioned enough.

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My opinion, Complete lockdown. No traffic either way between Israel and Palestine. Any attack from Palestine into Israel means immeadiate response thru airstrikes and artillery. If the Palis want to form a stable government, more power to them, if not, they can rot in their own shit.

And Jerusalem is Israel's. The Palis can fuck right off.

I agree, they need to protect themselves because it is clear that the "other side" wants nothing to do with peace.

The urgings are clear and vitriolic as has seemingly always been. There is no desire for peace from them and the Israelis have bent way too far over backwards IMO.

Look at this hopeychange-not rhetoric:

December 10, 2008 No. 2146

Arab Islamist Clerics to Palestinians: Slaughter...
[Link: www.memri.org...]

Sound peaceful?

re: #125 Nevergiveup

Well nothing Rice says would surprise me.

The fact that he picked her tells me he supports her vision.

The final total of electoral votes: Obama 365, McCain 173. Looks like a landslide to me.

re: #143 vapig

The fact that he picked her tells me he supports her vision.

Yup

re: #124 buzzsawmonkey

Correction: you are advocating a three- or four-state solution, depending on whether you are advocating "Palestine II" or Hamastan and Fatahland plus Israel.
There already is a "two-state solution." Jordan occupies most of what was once called "Palestine." Jordan is "Palestine."

Fair enough, but the issue still boils down to how one can maintain a Jewish State without a solid majority of Jews. Until a majority of Israelis are ready to do what you have so frankly admitted, the Jewish State solution will not be possible.

re: #136 vagabond trader

More calculating than ironic. This is one Jew who shall not be played by a Chicago thug.

The sad fact is he is taking Chicago thuggery to the White House.
Also some of the thugs are Jewish & somehow that makes it worse.

re: #144 Charles

The final total of electoral votes: Obama 365, McCain 173. Looks like a landslide to me.

You're harshing my buzz.

I liked Moshe Ya'alin's strategy that Charles linked here a couple days ago... the trick is not to make a political change and see the results on the ground... the trick is to build up the institutions from the ground up, and only then can they hope to have a claim to a state.

and I'm at 100 karma points! Sweet =D

Anybody ever watch Exodus with Paul Newman? If you did, you would know that back then - prior to the creation of Israel - Jews were actually called Palestinians, while the modern Palestinians were simply called Arabs.

"Palestinians" are a mythical people and "Palestine" is a mythical nation; the Arab countries simply invented the Palestinian people to make a distinction from the rest of the Arabs...to pretend as if these people really have such different cultural or ethical practices and are a separate and distinct people. If they were simply refereed to as Arabs, then that would fail to garner them as much sympathy for their "cause," since as "Palestinians" they are the good, oppressed guys by Israel, the big mean military machine. Its a tool they use to make the world forget that Israel, the big mean military machine, is surrounded by 400 million Arabs and over 1 billion angry Muslims.

The Right of Return? The Arab countries know that Israel would never accept such an offer, and it would destroy them if they did end up accepting it. Therefore, subsequent "peace" deals would involve Israel conceding territories like Golan Heights and East Jerusalem, while the Arabs would have to concede their claim to the Right of Return...simply a tool they created that are really handy in peace deals.

Two State solution? More like...the second step in their ultimate goal of destructing Israel. If anybody thinks the Arabs will be content after a Two State solution...they're...wrong!

My proposition? Scare em' straight. Every time they launch a rocket, send three stronger bombs right back.

Or otherwise just deport their asses.

re: #150 Joo-LiZ

and I'm at 100 karma points! Sweet =D

Lets have a Joo-bilee!

re: #113 Joo-LiZ

Maybe so. but there is much historical fact that can be backed up with respect to events.

She, I believe, prefaces the work (and I'm paraphrasing as I can't find the book on the shelf)...by stating that her original research intent was to understand the plight of the Palis, but through her research realized the plight of the Jews was much greater...

re: #5 WrathofG-d

I can't watch video now at Work.

What is their alternative?

Not pressuring Jews and Israel to accept more "painful concessions"

re: #104 Spare O'Lake

The purpose of the two state solution is to allow Israel to remain a Jewish state. A democratic one state solution must therefore necessarily involve the mass disenfranchisement or worse of millions of Israeli non-Jews.
I heard nothing from this person regarding this issue.
Could you please explain how moving the border is different from a 2 state solution?

Your presumptions are false.

When one states that a two state solution is "necessary" to keep a Jewish Israel, they are lying. Not only has the demographics they use to base this assumption been shown numerous times to be false, the entire idea is not logically sound. This claim is a wicked way the left in Israel has convinced everyone that there is only 1 resolution to the issue. Not surprising, this resolution is the Arab's. You don't have to give away 1/2 of your country to ensure that your country maintains certain underlying principles. That is like saying that the U.S. cannot keep its Constitutional principals because we have a large influx of people who do not want to follow it. You get those that do not want to follow the principles of the state to follow them. They don't have to be Jewish, but they have to respect the laws of the State that happen to be based on Jewish principles. The State of Israel does not have to accept that these Arab Phakestinianites reject their core principles, and thus believe that they should give up 1/2 of their Country because of it.

That is if you were to incorporate the non-Jewish Arab Phakestininites. A more appropriate alternative is to remove those that do not accept the character, and laws of the state. In any normal society, those who outrightly reject the laws and character of the state are jailed for breaking the laws. Those who actively work for the destruction of a state, are arrested and tried for Treason. (or at least they are supposed to be). Israel is allowing these Phakestinianites to be lawless, and by their manner towards them encourage it. They can either accept the character & laws of the State or they can be arrested. A more reasonable and humanitarian response to their rejection would be remove them to a state where they would be more comfortable and agree with the laws and character of the Country.

Transfer is not a dirty word, its an option. The State and the World has no problem Transfering Jews, or Indians, and Arab's shouldn't get special treatment.

They Must Go!

re: #144 Charles

The final total of electoral votes: Obama 365, McCain 173. Looks like a landslide to me.

Citizen vote was something like 53/47 for Obama, clearly not a landslide mate.The Nixon/McGovern campaign, now that was a landslide for Nixon!

re: #107 Opinionated

*spit*

I don't suppose they have bothered to look at how Christians have actually fared in Bethlehem under the Palestinian Authority, as compared to how they flourished under Israeli rule.
But then, pseudo-Christian Leftists hate traditionalist Christians even more than the Palis do.

re: #99 WrathofG-d

Ben,

Even actual transfer of people doesn't equal "camps".

I personally advocate the actual physical transfer of populations between Jordan, Egypt, and Israel. Jews into Israel, and Non-Jews who do not accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state to whatever country of their choice. This scenario has been done in numerous other locations without "camps", and has succeeded. It is not a "racist" or "evil" or whatever derogatory label it has been given by the Arabs who obviously oppose it, concept, but one that would once and for all cure the Arab-Israeli conflict.

What Israel, and the world must acknowledge is that no matter what they give the Arabs, they will NEVER be happy with a Jewish Israel. Even if you make them citizens, and give them the full rights of all other citizens, they will nonetheless reject the existence of a Jewish state.

They don't want to drive down streets named after Hertz, and Baba Sale, and Rabbi Nachmon of Breslov. They cannot accept the Israeli National Anthem that describes the 2000 year dream and yearning of the Jewish heart. They cannot proudly live under a flag that represents the Mogen David, and a Jewish prayer tallis.

Thinking that they can, or will ever except this existence, is a pathetic delusion that is offensive to the Arab/Muslim, and exactly what has kept the Conflict going since before 1930.

They Must Go...Transfer is the Resolution.

I agree but the sticking point will be jeruselum...

re: #154 DisturbedEma

Not pressuring Jews and Israel to accept more "painful concessions"

And start forcing the Palis to make some.

Quick name one commitment/concession the Palis have adhered to in the name of a 2 State solution?

re: #148 Racer X

re: #144 Charles

The final total of electoral votes: Obama 365, McCain 173. Looks like a landslide to me.

You're harshing my buzz

I'll try to restore it with a memory of happier times.

re: #128 wolfie

Say, wasn't the population of Bethlehem something like 70% Christian only a few years ago? Then the PA took over. Now it's what? 20% and desperate?

Let the Palestinians prove (1) they can have a territory like Gaza without using it to attack their neighbors, (2) that they can respect minorities like Jews and Christians, and (3) that they respect archaeological antiquities. Until they SHOW us they are capable of minimal decency, to hell with their claims.

When pigs fly ... (on all counts)

re: #156 loflyer

Citizen vote was something like 53/47 for Obama, clearly not a landslide mate.

Does that include ACORN and dead voters?

re: #153 jelo

Maybe so. but there is much historical fact that can be backed up with respect to events.

She, I believe, prefaces the work (and I'm paraphrasing as I can't find the book on the shelf)...by stating that her original research intent was to understand the plight of the Palis, but through her research realized the plight of the Jews was much greater...

I started reading it, back when I was new to the whole conflict, and the first person I mentioned it to tore it down as unreliable in minutes... I dunno how to respond to something like that.

Events are all well and good, but my understanding is that her thesis in the book deals with demographics, which would be MUCH harder to prove. Her claim is that Arab immigration to Palestine happened concurrently with Jewish immigration -- as Jews improved the standard of living in the territory.

If there is a way to justify her claim without using the whole "just believe her -- she saw the British records first hand" line of talk, I'd love to hear it!

It is one of those things I'd like to believe, I just don't know if I should.

re: #130 onepistoffyid

fine but can jews live in the Palestinian state? If not, I am not ok with it and the US shouldn't be either...Israel isn't an apartheid state and the Arab state shouldn't be either.

I don't really care if Jews can live in Jordan. Why would we want to?

re: #153 jelo

Maybe so. but there is much historical fact that can be backed up with respect to events.

She, I believe, prefaces the work (and I'm paraphrasing as I can't find the book on the shelf)...by stating that her original research intent was to understand the plight of the Palis, but through her research realized the plight of the Jews was much greater...

She did a great job documenting, not her fault history is being revised without reading the history. . .

re: #144 Charles

The final total of electoral votes: Obama 365, McCain 173. Looks like a landslide to me.

I wonder if this will mean that the Electoral College is back in the good graces of the Left.

re: #123 loflyer

I think it is clear to all parties that no matter what Israel does (except for mass suicide) the Pali's and Islamists will never be satisfied. If Israel gives 90 percent of her territory then Pali's will come right back and demand 90 percent of what is left because it is "holy" ground. Everyone knows what the aim of this 60 year project has been the destruction of Israel and the Jews in the Middle East. Europe and the UN have given into the dark-side and we need a Luke Skywalker to ride into town and clean up the place...Haar! May the force be with us mates!

I'm curious why you say the Euros have "given in" to the dark side... They are the dark side when it comes to Jews...

re: #160 Occasional Reader

I'll try to restore it with a memory of happier times.

Thanks man. Brought a tear to me eye.

re: #159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Quick name one commitment/concession the Palis have adhered to in the name of a 2 State solution?

Um, wait, I know this one... okay, they promised to maybe one day think about considering maybe having Nahoul the Genocidal Talking Bee retire.

re: #117 Spare O'Lake

That is what Israel would have to do in order to have a viable one-state solution. A desire to avoid this awful reality is why most Israelis and diaspora Jews cling to the hope of a 2 state solution.

What is so horrible about it? Are they really happy where they are? Is it working out for them.

Its not horrible! We aren't talking death, or camps, or whatever...its moving homes.

We really need to get out of this mindset that punishing Israel, and destroying her is the "only" option. Don't punish Israel for the Arab's problem of the Phakestinianites.

re: #151 traderjoe9

My proposition? Scare em' straight. Every time they launch a rocket, send three stronger bombs right back.

Or otherwise just deport their asses.

I vote for all of the above.

re: #156 loflyer

Citizen vote was something like 53/47 for Obama, clearly not a landslide mate.The Nixon/McGovern campaign, now that was a landslide for Nixon!

The electoral votes are what matter.

Anti-CAIR
News & Analysis
014/08 December 10, 2008

CAIR’s Message of “Peace”

Following the recent Islamic-terrorist attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), called for an “interfaith exchange” between Indian Hindus and Muslims.

As usual, CAIR exploits another sensational terrorist event while they ignore daily acts of Islamic terrorism – over 100 Muslim terror attacks took place in November prior to the Mumbai rampage.

In a call to action straight out of the CAIR playbook, CAIR-New York (CAIR-NY) Community Affairs Director Faiza N. Ali stated:

“Inter-religious exchanges are needed to help promote peace and security in the region”

CAIR, with proven ties to Islamic terrorism which includes having Islamic terrorists on staff at different periods in its short turbulent history, is the last group that should be calling for “exchanges”, let alone “Inter-religious” exchanges.

How can any group that practices Islamic supremacy presume to lecture anyone on the merits of peaceful religious exchange?

Consider:

- The Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) recently had a $156 million dollar judgment upheld against it for the murder of an American citizen by Hamas terrorists. Nihad Awad and Omar Ahmad, CAIR founders, were top officers of the IAP.

- The Lashkar-e-Taiba, an Islamist terrorist group, reportedly trained the Mumbai terrorists for their recent attacks. It is recalled that Ismail Royer, the incarcerated communications officer for CAIR, is currently serving time on terrorism charges; one of the terrorist acts he admitted to was providing assistance to America-based recruits of the Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist organization.

There are many other examples of CAIR staffers and members supporting Islamic terrorism through fundraising, propagandizing, or aidding and abetting terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba and Hamas.

Unlike the British Muslim group MPACUK, CAIR has yet to find the fortitude to just come out and honestly tell Americans they outright sympathize and support the many bloody efforts of Islamic terrorists.

CAIR's proven support for the objectives of Islamic terrorists and terrorist groups renders CAIR’s opinion on “interfaith exchanges” a cruel joke.

Only nobody is laughing in Mumbai ...

re: #130 onepistoffyid

fine but can jews live in the Palestinian state? If not, I am not ok with it and the US shouldn't be either...Israel isn't an apartheid state and the Arab state shouldn't be either.

Sorry my previous response was flip. You're correct, of course, but assuming the two state solution that I prefer (in which Jordan is the "Palestinian" state) I would take it.

re: #127 opnion

More calculating than ironic. This is one Jew who shall not be played by a Chicago thug.re: #147 opnion

21st century Court Jews.

re: #166 rawmuse

I wonder if this will mean that the Electoral College is back in the good graces of the Left.

That's that thing that Bush invented in 2000 in order to steal the election, right?

In two other interesting developments Wednesday, NBC Chicago learned that Jackson Jr. was given a phone call from the U.S. Attorney’s Office the night before the governor was taken into custody, advising him that the arrest was imminent. Also, the congressman’s father, Jesse Jackson Sr., has retained legal council following the Blagojevich arrest. [Link: hotair.com...]

If Israel wasn't now completely dependent on our limitless foreign aid and military presence, it wouldn't have to worry about what the US was "planning" for it.

re: #146 Spare O'Lake

Fair enough, but the issue still boils down to how one can maintain a Jewish State without a solid majority of Jews. Until a majority of Israelis are ready to do what you have so frankly admitted, the Jewish State solution will not be possible.

And why a Jewish state is somehow scrutinized harshly. . .

re: #133 Lynn B.

Feiglin is #20 on the Likud list now, I believe.

A shame. Israel needs a leader with balls. He wants to pull out of the UN - great! He wants to ban all Arab MK's in the Knesset (or otherwise known as traitors). Go for it!

re: #158 Marvo76

I agree but the sticking point will be jeruselum...

What "sticking point". It stays Israel, no matter what!

Jews spent over 2000 years praying, and dreaming for it...what is a couple years protecting it?

The problem is that the Arabs THINK they are going to get it. That is the fuel in the fire. They need to know that they will NEVER get it, and the problem will go away.

re: #156 loflyer

Citizen vote was something like 53/47 for Obama, clearly not a landslide mate.The Nixon/McGovern campaign, now that was a landslide for Nixon!

Please! You can't discount the electoral college - that's what the left does. Our founders set it up for a reason.

re: #172 Charles

The electoral votes are what matter.

That thought often goes spinning around Gore's head every day..
/I hope

It is instructive to remember that when the Republican Party vice presidential nominee wished to speak out in protest of a homicidal maniac who calls for the extinction of Israel, her voice was stilled by mainstream Jewish leaders. These Jewish “insiders” feared to give offense to candidate Obama’s soon to be in charge inner circle. Yipes!

Indeed the fear Jewish insiders suffer from most is the fear of becoming outsiders.

J-Street, the political arm of Hamas.

re: #151 traderjoe9

I highly recommend Leon Uris "Exodus" the book rather than the movie. Slow going at times, but by the time you are finished you will understand how state of Israel came to be. One of the interesting thing is the anti-semitism of the entire world to the Jews prior to WWII. Afterwords Europe and the US made some amends, but Europe has fallen back to its old ways. Britain has been no friend of the Jews either mates

Jiminy freaking Crickets.

Other computer is a PC running Windoze. I click a task and wait 10 seconds for it to complete. Click again - 10 more seconds.

I hate PC's.

re: #165 DisturbedEma

She did a great job documenting, not her fault history is being revised without reading the history. . .

Please see my 163

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

...they can rot in their own shit.

And Jerusalem is Israel's.

You touch on two points which I found interesting on my recent trip to IL.

1. Almost without exception, Arab IL (eg., Nazareth, a hellhole) and Jordan are filthy, unfinished, litter-strewn, disorganized ani. Just appalling. (OT: The main highway to Amman from Acquba, a largely-empty-of-traffic, divided, four lane road, was briefly closed as a kid drove his five goats across two lanes. Unbelievable. )

2. The Dome of the Rock (remember, this is "Islam's Third Holiest Site"), is a filthy, empty place, with the ancient olive grove having been recently razed and building materials and litter everywhere. And the building (to which the khuffar is now barred)? Filthy- peeling paint, and the marble plinth was cracked in places and grafitized. Compared with any of the other Quarters, the Muslim Quarter is just awful. Beyond its physical location in J'lem, there is absolutely no reason to visit (unlike, say, the elegance and perfection of the Christian Quarter's Franciscan Monastery of the Flagellation, a quite remarkable enclave.

re: #107 Opinionated

Israeli envoy to U.K. accuses church service of being anti-Semitic

The carol was part of an "alternative" event called 'Bethlehem Now: Nine Alternative Lessons and Carols' that took place at the end of November in the Wren church of St James's in Central London, and was organized by anti-Israel campaigners, including one liberal Jewish group.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

I like my version better:
12 Terrorists swinging Scimitars
11 Handicapped homicidal hoppers
10 jihadi pilots planting planes
9 fauxtographic reporters
8 leaders faking darkness
7 swords of servers
6 Hamas hanging gays
5 Hezbos jumping fire rings
4 ladies blowing up
3 French Youths rioting
2 tunneling terrorists
and an Al quida in the cave singing.

okay, it needs work but it is much more honest

re: #134 Charles

To quibble with that point, if you look at the electoral percentages, Obama did indeed win in a landslide.

True. I was thinking of the popular vote, which is frankly what comes to my mind anyway when I think of "landslide." But, yes, by electoral percentages, it was a rout.

re: #162 Racer X

Does that include ACORN and dead voters?

Of course! A liberal and socialist specialty mate!

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

Why? Here is what needs to be said: "We won it, it is ours. It is not yours. Get out."

Or, as we used to sing back in elementary school (with apologies to Woody Guthrie):

This land is my land
it isn't your land
You'd better get off
I'll blow your head off
I've got a shotgun
and you don't got one
This land is private property

re: #155 WrathofG-d

Transfer is not a dirty word, its an option. The State and the World has no problem Transfering Jews, or Indians, and Arab's shouldn't get special treatment.
They Must Go!

After a lengthy response you finally came to the same conclusion as me. The only way for Israel to maintain both its territorial integrity (including Gaza, West Bank and Golan) is to disenfranchise or deport millions of Arabs.
The problem with that solution is not my position - it is the position of the majority of Israelis and diaspora Jews.

In all the furor that has been created in Israel and the world Jewish community over the suggestion by certain "extreme" Jews that Israeli Arabs be transferred from the country, there appears to be forgotten the fact that such an action would only be the second part of an ultimate exchange of populations.

The fact is, that with the creation of the Jewish state in 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled Arab countries, almost all of whom left behind all their property for which compensation was never paid. It is worth while to look at the record before we dismiss the concept of the transfer of Arabs from Israel.
In all the furor that has been created in Israel and the world Jewish community over the suggestion by certain "radical" Jews that Israeli Arabs be transferred from the country, there appears to be forgotten the fact that such an action would only be the second part of an ultimate exchange of populations.

The fact is, that with the creation of the Jewish state in 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled Arab countries, almost all of whom left behind all their property for which compensation was never paid. It is worth while to look at the record before we dismiss the concept of the transfer of Arabs from Israel.

Algeria had 150,000 Jews in 1948. Pogroms in that country had occured almost every 10 years since tha 1890's, and during the 1930's, many Jews of Constantine were massacred despite French intervention. In 1961, the Front de Liberation Nationale (FLN) attacked the large cities where most of the Jews lived and 100,000 were forced to flee the country, leaving behind all their belongings.The FLN desecrated the Great Synagogue at Algiers and the ancient Jewish Cemetary at Oran, and succeeded in driving out all but 900 Jews by 1973. And so: Algeria 1948: 150,000 Jews; Algeria 1973: 750 Jews.

In Morocco in 1948 there were 300,000 Jews. On June 7 of that year, mobs in Oujda sacked the Jewish quarter, killing and wounding hundreds of Jews, and in nearby Djerada, 30 Jews were massacred by Arab mobs the same night. The new revolutionary government passed anti-Jewish laws so severe that they drove out 300,000 Jews. With the return of the Sultan in 1961, there was some relaxation of the laws; but by 1973 only 25,000 of the original 300,000 Jews remained. Morocco 1948: 300,000 Jews; Morocco 1973: 25,000 Jews.

There were 23,000 Jews in Tunisia in 1948. Following the revolutionary government's program of Arabization, Jews became "instant scapegoats ," and many were arrested for "economic" crimes simply for being merchants or practicing any gainful occupation. By 1973, all but 9,000 Jews had been driven out of Tunisia. Tunisia 1948: 23,000 Jews, Tunisia1973: 9,000 Jews.

Syria had 45,000 Jews in 1948. They had prospered under the Turks and the French, but when the Arabs took over, they at once became the target for both official and unofficial violence. Anti-Jewish legislation froze bank accounts and confiscated property. New laws forbade Jews to sell their property or move more than three miles from their homes. Special identity cards were issued to them, and they were allowed to work only at certain jobs. Government employees and military personnel were forbidden to patronize Jewish shops. Today there are fewer than 4,000 Jews in Syria, and they are under constant attack. Syria 1948: 45,000 Jews, Syria 1973: 4,000 Jews.

There were 45,000 Jews living in Libya in 1948. In Tripoli in 1945, 120 Jews had been killed by mobs of Arabs. After independence, most of the others were driven from the country, many were murdered after the Six-Day War and numerous others were arrested. In 1976, there were only about 70 Jews remaining in the country ruled by Colonel Qaddafi. Libya 1948: 45,000 Jews, Libya 1976: 70 Jews...

re: #175 vagabond trader

More calculating than ironic. This is one Jew who shall not be played by a Chicago thug.re: #147 opnion

21st century Court Jews.

Strange Days, indeed.

Jews have been in Egypt since Biblical times, and Alexandria had once been, at least partially, a Jewish city. In 1945, the pro-Nazi "Young Egypt" group led anti- Jewish rioting in which many Jews were killed. In 1947, a new law for companies made it practically impossible for Jewish businesses to operate. Egypt had 75,000 Jews in 1948, when bombings, burnings and looting destroyed almost $50 million worth of Jewish property. After the overthrow of King Farouk by Nasser and his "Free Officers," life for Jews became intolerable in that country. After the Suez War, 3,000 Jews were arrested and imprisoned without trial. Thousands of others were presented with deportation orders forcing them to quit the country within days and leave all their property behind. By 1967, Nasser had managed to force all but 3,000 Jews out of Egypt. There were fewer than 500 Jews remaining in the land ruled by the "moderate" el-Sadat in 1976; the rest were driven out to find new homes, mostly in Israel. Egypt 1948: 75,000 Jews, Egypt 1976: 500 Jews. ( Amnesty International reported in 1976 that there were only 350 Jews in Egypt.)

Iraq was the home of 125,000 Jews in 1948. Since then, the revolutionary government has conducted an almost incessant campaign of terror against them. Nine Jews were hanged in public and 68 tried as Israeli spies in January 1968 while chanting mobs moved through the streets beating up any Jew that passed their way, women and children included! By 1973, only 400 Jews remained in Iraq. Iraq 1948: 125,000 Jews, Iraq 1973: 400 Jews.

Yemen, where 54,000 Jews lived in 1948, had none in 1976. Hundreds were killed, and the rest found shelter in British bases until they were carried to Israel by Operation Magic Carpet. Before that, it was legal to stone a Jew to death, and the law decreed that " fatherless Jewish children under thirteen be taken from their mothers and raised as Muslims."Yemen 1948: 54,000 Jews, Yemen 1976: No Jews whatsoever!

In Aden, there were 5,000 Jews in 1947, but in 1976 there were none. In December, 1947, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish quarter, killing several people and burning down buildings. Between 1948 and 1967, most Aden Jews fled to Israel. The 130 who remained fled after the riots in June 1967 to escape torture and certain death. Aden 1948: 5,000 Jews, Aden 1967: No Jews Whatsoever!

A total of some 750,000 Jews fled Arab lands since 1948. Surely it is time for Jews, worried over the huge growth of Arabs in Israel, to consider finishing the exchange of populations that began 35 years ago.

Sure give the arabs a state...give 'em Illinois

re: #178 ellcon

If Israel wasn't now completely dependent on our limitless foreign aid and military presence, it wouldn't have to worry about what the US was "planning" for it.

From a military perspective, eliminating smaller options to deal with smaller threats only means needing to user your larger options to deal larger threats. Where before you could afford to use a platoon or one fighter to launch a surgical strike, you would now be forced to use overwhelming force to deal with a threat once and for all in order to conserve and make better use of your exisiting forces.

Cutting aid to Israel will force them to escalate.

re: #151 traderjoe9

My proposition? Scare em' straight. Every time they launch a rocket, send three stronger bombs right back.

Or otherwise just deport their asses.

What I'm waiting for, which I'm thinking won't be much longer, is the headline that the IDF has knocked rockets out of the sky in flight and they've fallen back on the rocketeers... That will change this game. They'll come up with something else, but it will change the current idiocy. The IDF does seem to be detecting and interdicting the rocket crews much faster lately.

re: #193 loflyer

Of course! A liberal and socialist specialty mate!

I heard Wilbon a minute ago say the new saying for Chicago is...
Bribe early and Bribe often..

re: #199 mikeytrix

Sure give the arabs a state...give 'em Illinois

But then were will the Cubs move to? NY already has a NL team?

re: #196 WrathofG-d

In all the furor that has been created in Israel and the world Jewish community over the suggestion by certain "extreme" Jews that Israeli Arabs be transferred from the country, there appears to be forgotten the fact that such an action would only be the second part of an ultimate exchange of populations.

The fact is, that with the creation of the Jewish state in 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled Arab countries, almost all of whom left behind all their property for which compensation was never paid. It is worth while to look at the record before we dismiss the concept of the transfer of Arabs from Israel.
In all the furor that has been created in Israel and the world Jewish community over the suggestion by certain "radical" Jews that Israeli Arabs be transferred from the country, there appears to be forgotten the fact that such an action would only be the second part of an ultimate exchange of populations.

The fact is, that with the creation of the Jewish state in 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled Arab countries, almost all of whom left behind all their property for which compensation was never paid. It is worth while to look at the record before we dismiss the concept of the transfer of Arabs from Israel.

Algeria had 150,000 Jews in 1948. Pogroms in that country had occured almost every 10 years since tha 1890's, and during the 1930's, many Jews of Constantine were massacred despite French intervention. In 1961, the Front de Liberation Nationale (FLN) attacked the large cities where most of the Jews lived and 100,000 were forced to flee the country, leaving behind all their belongings.The FLN desecrated the Great Synagogue at Algiers and the ancient Jewish Cemetary at Oran, and succeeded in driving out all but 900 Jews by 1973. And so: Algeria 1948: 150,000 Jews; Algeria 1973: 750 Jews.

In Morocco in 1948 there were 300,000 Jews. On June 7 of that year, mobs in Oujda sacked the Jewish quarter, killing and wounding hundreds of Jews, and in nearby Djerada, 30 Jews were massacred by Arab mobs the same night. The new revolutionary government passed anti-Jewish laws so severe that they drove out 300,000 Jews. With the return of the Sultan in 1961, there was some relaxation of the laws; but by 1973 only 25,000 of the original 300,000 Jews remained. Morocco 1948: 300,000 Jews; Morocco 1973: 25,000 Jews.

There were 23,000 Jews in Tunisia in 1948. Following the revolutionary government's program of Arabization, Jews became "instant scapegoats ," and many were arrested for "economic" crimes simply for being merchants or practicing any gainful occupation. By 1973, all but 9,000 Jews had been driven out of Tunisia. Tunisia 1948: 23,000 Jews, Tunisia1973: 9,000 Jews.

Syria had 45,000 Jews in 1948. They had prospered under the Turks and the French, but when the Arabs took over, they at once became the target for both official and unofficial violence. Anti-Jewish legislation froze bank accounts and confiscated property. New laws forbade Jews to sell their property or move more than three miles from their homes. Special identity cards were issued to them, and they were allowed to work only at certain jobs. Government employees and military personnel were forbidden to patronize Jewish shops. Today there are fewer than 4,000 Jews in Syria, and they are under constant attack. Syria 1948: 45,000 Jews, Syria 1973: 4,000 Jews.

There were 45,000 Jews living in Libya in 1948. In Tripoli in 1945, 120 Jews had been killed by mobs of Arabs. After independence, most of the others were driven from the country, many were murdered after the Six-Day War and numerous others were arrested. In 1976, there were only about 70 Jews remaining in the country ruled by Colonel Qaddafi. Libya 1948: 45,000 Jews, Libya 1976: 70 Jews...

Yep. . .the State of Israel took in those Jews. . .they were not pushed in to political pawn statement in teeming camps denied citizenship. . .

re: #183 vapig

Please! You can't discount the electoral college - that's what the left does. Our founders set it up for a reason.

My point is not that the electoral votes are not important, because when it comes to the presidential the electoral college is the only factor, but it does not reflect the percentages of population which shows that while this election was not close, it was no "landslide victory" either mates!

re: #137 Joo-LiZ

Can you explain to me why thats a big deal? I don't know details about intra-likud politics... but #20 seems low to me, and what does the order of the list matter for the party as a whole?

It's not a big deal. But by running for the Likud list he's taken himself out of the running for the head of a party (which would be #1). The order of the list has to do with the likelihood of getting a seat in the Knesset. If the Likud only gets 19 seats in the next election, he won't get one of them. That appears unlikely. Latest polls have them in the 30s. So he'll probably get in. The chances of him getting a cabinet appointment, though, given the /enthusiasm/ with which Bibi welcomed him into the party, are slim to none.

A Barney Franks sound bite was just on FNC.
I know that it is wrong to make fun of the way someone speaks, but I would love to hear the guy sing Tiptoe Through the Tulips.

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

Why? Here is what needs to be said: "We won it, it is ours. It is not yours. Get out."

I agree, but it is the arab's palistinians you have to convince of that :0)

re: #207 opnion

A Barney Franks sound bite was just on FNC.
I know that it is wrong to make fun of the way someone speaks, but I would love to hear the guy sing Tiptoe Through the Tulips.

Sufferin Sucotash!

I think one of the first actions of the18 should be to as widely as possible publicize the findings of groups like Palestinian Media Watch and MEMRI... Make it as plane as possible, not just to politicians, but to citizens everywhere that there is STILL to THIS DAY an active brainwashing campaign in the Palestinian Territories. Even the supposedly "moderate" ones. Take the UN and international backers to task for ignoring this blatant child-abuse.

re: #200 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does that mean if China cut it's financial aid to us we would have been forced to nuke Iraq?

re: #144 Charles

The final total of electoral votes: Obama 365, McCain 173. Looks like a landslide to me.

52.3% to 46.2% doesn't. That's the will of the people, even if the official tally is from the Electoral College.

I've seen reference to some States mandating that their electors must vote the way the State voted, but how many States split their electoral votes instead of throwing them all into one big block? I would have to think the EC vote would be much close if they all did that.

re: #208 Marvo76

I agree, but it is the arab's palistinians you have to convince of that :0)

Mechanized infantry with air support make a convincing arguement.

re: #151 traderjoe9

You are not allowed to watch Exodus.
A colleague of mine from the halls of academe dropped by my house one day and saw a copy of that movie on my kitchen table. I was informed that it was "Nazi propaganda." Yeah, he backed away from that specific terminology, but not from the general conviction that I was committing "child abuse" by letting my kids watch such "fascist mythology."

re: #164 Lynn B.

I don't really care if Jews can live in Jordan. Why would we want to?

Your missing the point...Jews lived all over the middle east prior to 1948...jews should have the freedom to live wherever they want, just like Arabs. Plenty of Arabs live in Israel and would never leave. The US shouldn't allow the creation of another judenfrei state, capeche?

re: #164 Lynn B.

I don't really care if Jews can live in Jordan. Why would we want to?

Okay, so this is off-topic, but I have a question. I'm a Cub Scout den leader, and this month the theme is "holiday of lights," with the idea that we will talk about the different holidays happening this month. We're going to talk about Hannukah and Christmas, and I found a craft and a recipe for Hannukah.

The recipe for apple krugel instructs me to add horseradish. Is this serious, or a joke on the gentiles? It seems a bit odd to add to a recipe whose chief ingredient is apples.

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey

Allow me to remind people that the entire mindset which embraces the concept of Israeli concessions has forgotten that there is not a single nation in the Middle East that is more than 20 years older than the State of Israel.

I don't give a damn how fancy the nightgowns worn by the Saudis are; the "Saudi Royal Family" is nothing more than a band of brigands who were given the Arabian Peninsula by the fading British Empire in the aftermath of WWI.

All of the Middle East was part of the Ottoman Empire up until the end of WWI. All of the "states" that emerged from that empire's ruins--Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia--pre-date Israel by a scant few years.

Why are the wishes of these states, most of them run by depraved dictators or thuggish warlords--considered in any way important or relevant?

OIL

what a strong, calm, powerful man.
he is an inspiration. i love him.

I'm off!

Take care!

The Top 40 Conservative Blogs For 2008

LGF made the Top 10.

re: #209 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sufferin Sucotash!

'Ohhh, tiptoe thew the twowips..."

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey

Green hearted and updinged.

re: #215 wolfie

You are not allowed to watch Exodus.
A colleague of mine from the halls of academe dropped by my house one day and saw a copy of that movie on my kitchen table. I was informed that it was "Nazi propaganda." Yeah, he backed away from that specific terminology, but not from the general conviction that I was committing "child abuse" by letting my kids watch such "fascist mythology."

I wonder who he voted for?

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey

Allow me to remind people that the entire mindset which embraces the concept of Israeli concessions has forgotten that there is not a single nation in the Middle East that is more than 20 years older than the State of Israel.

I don't give a damn how fancy the nightgowns worn by the Saudis are; the "Saudi Royal Family" is nothing more than a band of brigands who were given the Arabian Peninsula by the fading British Empire in the aftermath of WWI.

All of the Middle East was part of the Ottoman Empire up until the end of WWI. All of the "states" that emerged from that empire's ruins--Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia--pre-date Israel by a scant few years.

Why are the wishes of these states, most of them run by depraved dictators or thuggish warlords--considered in any way important or relevant?

Because they are vicious arabs, and when they act out of line, well... what more do you expect?

OH... and there is also the oil thing as well.

re: #199 mikeytrix

Sure give the arabs a state...give 'em Illinois

to close to my back door, unless there is open season on them if they get off the reservation...LOL

re: #203 Nevergiveup

The Cubs would stay and play under strict shari'a baseball rules. Losing pitchers gotta run in to the stands and splodeydope themselves. Umpires must be Imams. Balls are made of stone.

This "group" can't fight anything.

Only an Israeli government with balls can fight anything.

Whether Israel will ever again have a government with balls is open to question.

For now they have a government that is so totally insane that a truck load of psychologists could not begin to explain.

As the barbarians fire rockets at Israel several times a day-

Defense Minister Ehud Barak on Wednesday approved the transfer of some NIS 100 million from West Bank banks to banks in the Gaza Strip.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

re: #208 Marvo76

I agree, but it is the arab's palistinians you have to convince of that :0)

First and foremost it is the majority of the Jews of Israel and the diaspora that will have to be convinced that there is no other way.

re: #222 opnion

Now now, he's a Harvard educated lawyer, show some wespwect.

re: #229 Spare O'Lake

true, and what surprises me is how many of them AREN'T convinced of that...

re: #221 Killgore Trout

The Top 40 Conservative Blogs For 2008

LGF made the Top 10.

Congratulations, Charles!

re: #228 Opinionated

This "group" can't fight anything.

Only an Israeli government with balls can fight anything.

Whether Israel will ever again have a government with balls is open to question.

For now they have a government that is so totally insane that a truck load of psychologists could not begin to explain.

As the barbarians fire rockets at Israel several times a day-

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

*sigh*

I'm sitting here trying to come up with something to say... some explanation, and I'm at a complete and utter loss.

*impatiently awaits February*

re: #221 Killgore Trout

The Top 40 Conservative Blogs For 2008

LGF made the Top 10.

There's one highly embarrassing blog on that list. Shame it's ranked so highly.

re: #195 Spare O'Lake

After a lengthy response you finally came to the same conclusion as me. The only way for Israel to maintain both its territorial integrity (including Gaza, West Bank and Golan) is to disenfranchise or deport millions of Arabs.
The problem with that solution is not my position - it is the position of the majority of Israelis and diaspora Jews.

I take issue with your characterization of it as "disenfranchise". You can only "disenfranchise" the franchised. Phakestinianites are not Israelis!
Furthermore, those that wish to destroy Israel, and do not accept their essential character, and laws are Enemies of the State. As citizens that would cause them to be charged with Treason, as non-state actors they are nothing more than a band of Terrorist; again death, or jail are the solution. I offer a more humanitarian approach...and that is transfer.

Those that wish to accept the essential character and laws of the state can stay. They will be non-Jews in a Jewish State. That works for me.

re: #227 mikeytrix

The Cubs would stay and play under strict shari'a baseball rules. Losing pitchers gotta run in to the stands and splodeydope themselves. Umpires must be Imams. Balls are made of stone.

I think that the concept would be that the New calipate would exist the moment that the Cubs played in & won a World Series.
No Caliphate, no way, ever!

re: #215 wolfie

You are not allowed to watch Exodus.
A colleague of mine from the halls of academe dropped by my house one day and saw a copy of that movie on my kitchen table. I was informed that it was "Nazi propaganda." Yeah, he backed away from that specific terminology, but not from the general conviction that I was committing "child abuse" by letting my kids watch such "fascist mythology."

what a great movie. and not just because paul newman was such a hunk.
sal mineo was in it too. he was riveting. i could not take my eyes off him because of his odd intense energy. he has a wind up toy quality. (in a good way).

re: #202 HoosierHoops

I heard Wilbon a minute ago say the new saying for Chicago is...
Bribe early and Bribe often..

Haar Hoopster, how are you doing mate? Cook county has been a disaster for democracy for half a century. I find it interesting the many Illinois Democrats do not actually mean "democracy" for the population but for themselves and their liberal elite clientele which is where Obama came to power. Wonder what would of happened if this scandal had occurred six weeks ago.

/Probably buried in file 13 by the media!

re: #230 vagabond trader

Now now, he's a Harvard educated lawyer, show some wespwect.

Wewey. OK how about a duet with Barbara Walters?

re: #221 Killgore Trout

It's up to number 8--the guy is fickle.

re: #211 ellcon

Does that mean if China cut it's financial aid to us we would have been forced to nuke Iraq?

Politics aside, possibly. From a purely military and logistics point of view one has to look at the cost effectiveness and long term combat readiness and effectiveness. Look at the Hiroshima/Nagasaki debate. Use of atomic bombs ended the war. saving millions of men on both sides who would have died if an invasion had been needed.

re: #233 Joo-LiZ

*sigh*

*impatiently awaits February*

Sure. We will all celebrate Netanyahu's win and then he will start surrendering before the applause had dies down.

re: #183 vapig

Please! You can't discount the electoral college - that's what the left does. Our founders set it up for a reason.

Nobody's discounting the electoral college. It determines who wins the election. If my candidate wins the popular vote and loses the electoral college vote, then my candidate loses. That's what happened in 2000 (yes, ok, I voted for Gore, flog me) and it never occurred to me to argue otherwise. The reaction of many of my fellow Democrats was part of what started me questioning whether I wanted to continue that association.

I just tend to think of "landslide" as a term that generally refers to the popular vote. Maybe I'm off base there. Dunno.

re: #216 onepistoffyid

Your missing the point...Jews lived all over the middle east prior to 1948...jews should have the freedom to live wherever they want, just like Arabs. Plenty of Arabs live in Israel and would never leave. The US shouldn't allow the creation of another judenfrei state, capeche?

Not that their status in those countries was great. . .dhimmi. . .

re: #151 traderjoe9

re: #215 wolfie

re: #237 nyc redneck

I've only seen parts of the movie.

The book was better.

re: #235 WrathofG-d

I take issue with your characterization of it as "disenfranchise". You can only "disenfranchise" the franchised. Phakestinianites are not Israelis!
Furthermore, those that wish to destroy Israel, and do not accept their essential character, and laws are Enemies of the State. As citizens that would cause them to be charged with Treason, as non-state actors they are nothing more than a band of Terrorist; again death, or jail are the solution. I offer a more humanitarian approach...and that is transfer.

Those that wish to accept the essential character and laws of the state can stay. They will be non-Jews in a Jewish State. That works for me.

Problem: If they all have the vote, then they will outvote the Jews. that is what I meant by "disenfranchise".

re: #242 Opinionated

Sure. We will all celebrate Netanyahu's win and then he will start surrendering before the applause had dies down.

It'll give me a couple days hope until the headlines start splashing.

re: #233 Joo-LiZ

*sigh*

I'm sitting here trying to come up with something to say... some explanation, and I'm at a complete and utter loss.

*impatiently awaits February*

Me too. . .but, what, um, hey. . .sigh, and wait. . .

re: #221 Killgore Trout

The Top 40 Conservative Blogs For 2008

LGF made the Top 10.

It's nice and I'm pleased to see LGF on the list of course, but that's only John Hawkins' favorite blogs; basically it's just one guy's bookmarks.

re: #242 Opinionated

He has already jumped on Obama's bandwagon.

Oh my...that poor, poor baby boy. Good for them and I pray America will stand up with them. You listening Obama?

re: #236 opnion

There's a goat joke in there somewhere. Under Shari'a they'd build a huge mosque on top of Wrigley.

re: #251 JumpLandPackRepeat

Oh my...that poor, poor baby boy. Good for them and I pray America will stand up with them. You listening Obama?

I'm getting the impression it's only 1 guy and maybe his friends, for now.

But then... isn't that how all great movements begin?

re: #196 WrathofG-d

Right. And by your own account, many fled but many were also forcibly expelled.

/thin line sometimes

ann coulter is going to be speaking at nyu tonight at 7:00.
my daughter is going w/ some friends. some of whom are doing security work,
checking people for pies.
lol

re: #243 Lynn B.

Nobody's discounting the electoral college. It determines who wins the election. If my candidate wins the popular vote and loses the electoral college vote, then my candidate loses. That's what happened in 2000 (yes, ok, I voted for Gore, flog me) and it never occurred to me to argue otherwise. The reaction of many of my fellow Democrats was part of what started me questioning whether I wanted to continue that association.

I just tend to think of "landslide" as a term that generally refers to the popular vote. Maybe I'm off base there. Dunno.

Me too- that was bumper sticker fodder for 8 years. . .

re: #253 Joo-LiZ

But then... isn't that how all great movements begin?

With me, its a healthy dose of fiber

/

re: #257 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

With me, its a healthy dose of fiber

/

LOL.

I shoulda seen that coming.

re: #255 nyc redneck

ann coulter is going to be speaking at nyu tonight at 7:00.
my daughter is going w/ some friends. some of whom are doing security work,
checking people for pies.
lol

I'm betting Ann is packing some heat- wonder if she has to go through the detectors. . .

re: #199 mikeytrix

Sure give the arabs a state...give 'em Illinois

Better yet, let them have the rest of Michigan - less the UP.
As part of the deal they have to take the Big 3 car companies and the Lions.

re: #7 Racer X

I thought they already had THREE states - Israel, West Bank (Fatah), and Gaza (Hamas).

don't forget the heshmite kingdom of Jordan which the brits stole from eratz Yisroel