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Rahm Emanuel Talked with Blagojevich About Obama's Senate Seat

Politics | Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 10:12:17 am PST

So now, the question becomes, “Why did Barack Obama flatly deny that any discussions took place?” He had to have known about Emanuel’s talks with Blagojevich; it’s hard to see this as anything other than a lie.

Rahm Emanuel talked with governor’s office about who should fill Obama’s Senate seat.

Emanuel, who has long been close to both Blagojevich and Obama, has refused to respond to questions about any involvement he may have had with the Blagojevich camp over the Senate pick. A spokeswoman for Emanuel also declined to comment Friday.

One source confirmed that communications between Emanuel and the Blagojevich administration were captured on court-approved wiretaps.

Another source said that contact between the Obama camp and the governor’s administration regarding the Senate seat began the Saturday before the Nov. 4 election, when Emanuel made a call to the cell phone of Harris. The conversation took place around the same time press reports surfaced about Emanuel being approached about taking the high-level White House post should Obama win.

Emanuel delivered a list of candidates who would be “acceptable” to Obama, the source said. On the list were Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett, Illinois Veterans Affairs director Tammy Duckworth, state Comptroller Dan Hynes and U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky of Chicago, the source said. All are Democrats.

Sometime after the election, Emanuel called Harris back to add the name of Democratic Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan to the approved list, the source said.

(Hat tip: 3 wood.)

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628 comments

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1 CapeCoddah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:12:43am

I hate liars, too.

2 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:13:39am

"Approved List" What exactly does that mean?

3 Ron Shaw  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:14:03am

The MSM and his followers do not care one atom about Obama's lies.

More of the same, here.

4 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:14:04am

Time to start the "O-mpeach" movement.

5 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:15:06am

Hopey Changey Wanted To Move In Early To DC's "Blair House"


[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

6 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:15:15am

The Chicago machine of corruption - how nice for us.

7 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:15:41am

And it would have been easy to tell the truth, right off. Why must politicians lie?/
Ok, that was a dumb question.

8 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:16:25am

I see that Chez Mousey needs more popcorn. This is shaking out to be quite a mess for "O".

9 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:16:28am

re: #5 Dustyvet

Hopey Changey Wanted To Move In Early To DC's "Blair House"


[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

And our great gubmint said, Get a room at the Motel 6, bud.
Hooray for our side!

10 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:16:29am

re: #4 zombie

Time to start the "O-mpeach" movement.

Oy.

I do not relish that idea. Really.

11 sbvft contributor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:16:50am

Change you can believe in. Not.

12 NeoKong  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:16:51am

Oh man...this is getting good.Obama isn't even sworn in yet and we have a brand new Whitewater/PlameGate ala Karl Rove style to pin on him.
Thanks Rahm!
Gay may be the new black but Emanuel is the new Rove.

13 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:17:02am

re: #9 Wishing

And our great gubmint said, Get a room at the Motel 6, bud.
Hooray for our side!

I thought I said that?

14 alexknyc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:17:07am

I don't get why Obama thought anyone with half a working brain (which leaves the media on the sidelines) would believe he had NO discussions with Blagojevich about the vacant Senate seat?

Of course he had discussions about it. It's also highly improbable that Blagojevich clued Obama in on the little auction he was having for it.

Lying about things that are so easily proven false is a bad move. It's also the sign of a pathological liar. On the other hand, with the media's lips so firmly attached to his ass, Obama may think he can get away with lying about anything.

15 CapeCoddah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:17:11am

This does not bode well for "Change" unless the change 0 meant was the complete Chicago style corruption of the Federal government, as if it was not bad enough as it is. He has not even been inaugurated yet, and already, the lies, the corruption...

16 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:17:23am

I said before ...Winston Wolf is on retainer and will be "cleaning" up any and all Obama messes ...

17 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:17:25am

Blagorahma!

18 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:17:47am

In an Obama administration, one-time close aides like Emanuel may end up disappearing.

19 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:18:28am

re: #18 zombie

In an Obama administration, one-time close aides like Emanuel may end up disappearing.

We have always been at war with Eastasia...

20 sbvft contributor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:18:34am

Like they say - "It's not the crime. It's the coverup." Or something like that.

21 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:19:02am

re: #15 CapeCoddah

This does not bode well for "Change" unless the change 0 meant was the complete Chicago style corruption of the Federal government, as if it was not bad enough as it is. He has not even been inaugurated yet, and already, the lies, the corruption...

Like I said in another thread, the "Chicago Machine has gone National"

22 MandyManners  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:19:13am

I might change the "C" for "Commie" to "C" for "Corrupt" in CBBHO.

23 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:19:23am

Hannity did his 'Man on the Street' yesterday on his radio show. Not one of them knew who Blagojevich was and could barely answer his other questions. They were mostly clueless, but either voted for Obama or would have.

24 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:19:55am

re: #22 MandyManners

I might change the "C" for "Commie" to "C" for "Corrupt" in CBBHO.

CCBBHO

25 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:20:04am

re: #18 zombie

In an Obama administration, one-time close aides like Emanuel may end up disappearing.

How long before Obama creates a department called the "ministry of truth"?

26 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:20:25am

And just what did people think they would get electing a made Chicago pol?

The second coming?

It's not sarc if it's true.

27 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:20:27am

Two of my favorites movies are being played out in the Obamacrapolafest ...

The Godfather
Doctor Zhivago

28 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:20:40am

re: #22 MandyManners

I might change the "C" for "Commie" to "C" for "Corrupt" in CBBHO.

CCBBHO.

29 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:21:03am

re: #28 jcm

CCBBHO.

Sounds like a railroad.

30 freedomplow  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:21:22am

Looks like no one knows exactly what Rham said on tape.

Team Obama doesn't know what to do.

31 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:22:01am

re: #29 jcm

Sounds like a railroad.

If this is a train, then I want to get off.

32 wahabicorridor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:22:17am

I simply don't understand why the O camp thought it was necessary to lie. It is perfectly appropriate for them to discuss with the governor of the state who they thought could best fill Obama's Senate seat. It's clear from the transcripts that as far as the Obama camp was concerned, there would be no quid pro quo - so what was the problem?

33 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:22:19am

re: #30 freedomplow

Looks like no one knows exactly what Rham said on tape.

Team Obama doesn't know what to do.

I agree, the silence is due to not knowing what Rahm said, so they have no idea what to say that wont come back to bite em in the butt.

34 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:22:37am

re: #18 zombie

In an Obama administration, one-time close aides like Emanuel may end up disappearing.

From the link:

Nikolai Yezhov, commissar of water transport

Well... that was one of his jobs, but not exactly the one he's most remembered for.

35 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:22:41am

re: #30 freedomplow

Looks like no one knows exactly what Rham said on tape.

Team Obama doesn't know what to do.

Oh yeah they do "Stonewall It"

36 arier_tzvi  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:22:59am

Obama isnt president yet. He is president elect... So I guess that makes it ok

37 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:23:34am

re: #4 zombie

Time to start the "O-mpeach" movement.

Egad. We'd have Plugsy as Prez.

38 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:23:37am

Good Morning Lizards! It's still cold and icy in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

It's kinda fun watching all this happen (even if it's my own state).

How are you-all?

39 NelsFree  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:23:43am

Will this cause the O to reschedule his Address From a Major Muslim Capital? While I'm on that thought train, is Washington, DC, a "Major Christian Capital"?

40 Ron Shaw  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:23:54am

"Acceptable"...to Obama.

"Approved list"...approved by Obama.

I never knew an ex-Senator had such sway on who took the empty seat and especially one that was previously occupied by an empty suit. Does compensation come with appointment? If so, in what form and by whom? Obama obviously was expected to "pay" in some fashion through the use of the office of POTUS and the taxpayers. In this scenario, is this any different than a million dollar offer by JJ, Jr. or his people? yes, it is. JJ, Jr.'s offer was a on-time payment for the post. Obama's payment could mean many years of rewards in position(s) and money. The Energizer payment plan from Obama...a purchase that keeps on giving from all taxpayers. Is this not corruption on a National level? If not, nothing rises to that level.

41 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:23:57am

re: #36 arier_tzvi

Obama isnt president yet. He is president elect... So I guess that makes it ok

Not even that until Monday.

42 Deke56  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:10am

When the Obama camp doesn't answer questions they are " getting together to determine all the facts" In other words " putting the best lies before focus groups to see what will WORK the best."

If this had happened to Sarah Palin, not only would the media be screaming "What did she know...and when did she know it?"
But how much did her blouse cost and where did she buy it!

43 Steffan  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:20am

re: #5 Dustyvet

Hopey Changey Wanted To Move In Early To DC's "Blair House"


[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

Blair House is generally reserved for visiting heads of state.

No foolin' that the people booked for the place can't be evicted.

44 invictus1  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:32am

re: #32 wahabicorridor

I simply don't understand why the O camp thought it was necessary to lie. It is perfectly appropriate for them to discuss with the governor of the state who they thought could best fill Obama's Senate seat. It's clear from the transcripts that as far as the Obama camp was concerned, there would be no quid pro quo - so what was the problem?

The funny thing is, it's more than likely Obama, nor Emanuel, nor anyone else on his team were caught committing a crime. But by dodging or not answering questions and lying when you do answer them, it makes them look VERY guilty. Then again, it's possible they do have something to hide.

45 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:39am

re: #37 Fat Jolly Penguin

Egad. We'd have Plugsy as Prez.

Quit that, Pugsly had class...

46 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:45am

re: #29 jcm

Sounds like a railroad.

Well, Chicago is the railroad capital of North America.

47 sbvft contributor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:48am

You know what tickes me off? Barry's initial choice to replace him. This slumlord Valerie Jarrett?:

NRO: An excerpt from a June Boston Globe piece on Obama and Chicago's housing policies:

CHICAGO - The squat brick buildings of Grove Parc Plaza, in a dense neighborhood that Barack Obama represented for eight years as a state senator, hold 504 apartments subsidized by the federal government for people who can't afford to live anywhere else.

But it's not safe to live here.

About 99 of the units are vacant, many rendered uninhabitable by unfixed problems, such as collapsed roofs and fire damage. Mice scamper through the halls. Battered mailboxes hang open. Sewage backs up into kitchen sinks. In 2006, federal inspectors graded the condition of the complex an 11 on a 100-point scale - a score so bad the buildings now face demolition.

Grove Parc has become a symbol for some in Chicago of the broader failures of giving public subsidies to private companies to build and manage affordable housing - an approach strongly backed by Obama as the best replacement for public housing. [...]

Valerie Jarrett, a senior adviser to Obama's presidential campaign and a member of his finance committee. Jarrett is the chief executive of Habitat Co., which managed Grove Parc Plaza from 2001 until this winter and co-managed an even larger subsidized complex in Chicago that was seized by the federal government in 2006, after city inspectors found widespread problems.

48 invictus1  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:24:55am

re: #41 Fat Jolly Penguin

Not even that until Monday.

President-Elect-Elect?

49 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:25:02am

Before the election, I would ask people who were voting for Obama:

"Why would you want a Chicago Politician in the Oval Office?"

Most didn't have an answer -- I wonder what they are thinking now?

50 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:25:02am

re: #18 zombie

In an Obama administration, one-time close aides like Emanuel may end up disappearing.

Good day undead one.

51 vapig  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:25:09am

So this is what the next four years are going to look like?

sigh.....

Well, some of us said (mostly tongue in cheek) that we needed a Carter to get a Reagan. Looks like we're getting what we asked for. I hope the damage is minimal, but Carter left us with Iran, double digit unemployment and inflation. Obama is going to have a lot more tools to do a lot more damage.

heavy sigh.....

52 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:25:32am

re: #41 Fat Jolly Penguin

Not even that until Monday.

Obama has effectively ignored the fact of the Electoral College.

53 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:26:33am

re: #40 Ron Shaw

"Acceptable"...to Obama.

"Approved list"...approved by Obama.

I never knew an ex-Senator had such sway on who took the empty seat and especially one that was previously occupied by an empty suit. Does compensation come with appointment? If so, in what form and by whom? Obama obviously was expected to "pay" in some fashion through the use of the office of POTUS and the taxpayers. In this scenario, is this any different than a million dollar offer by JJ, Jr. or his people? yes, it is. JJ, Jr.'s offer was a on-time payment for the post. Obama's payment could mean many years of rewards in position(s) and money. The Energizer payment plan from Obama...a purchase that keeps on giving from all taxpayers. Is this not corruption on a National level? If not, nothing rises to that level.

It is not unusual for this kind of "recommending" between politicians to go on, it's not illegal.

What is illegal is if they start trying to sell it.

54 vapig  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:27:01am

re: #25 gclaghorn

How long before Obama creates a department called the "ministry of truth"?

Or a "stop the smear" czar

55 Opinionated  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:27:06am

These stories make me sad.

Not because I don't believe that everything out of the Chicago machine including Obama is tainted with corruption but because I know Obama has a powerful Leftist shield [whether media, party, unions, academicians, big money] around him and will get away with anything.

56 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:27:13am
57 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:27:55am

Interesting.

A few different possibilities seem to be arising, in ascending order of calamity for the Obama administration-to-be:

1) Emanuel spoke to Blagojevich and didn't know anything untoward or illegal was going on.

2) Emanuel spoke to Blagojevich and knew something untoward or illegal was going on, and did say something to the authorities.

3) Emanuel spoke to Blagojevich and knew something untoward or illegal was going on, and didn't say anything to the authorities.

4) Emanuel spoke to Blagojevich and knew something untoward or illegal was going on, and lied to the authorities.

5) Same series as above, but with the added variable of Emanuel reporting his knowledge to Obama or not.

In any case, it seems -- from the Blagojevich tapes -- that Obama or his 'people' didn't actually take part in any sort of auction. It seems strange to me -- strange to the point of unlikelihood -- that they would

1) Know about the Great Senate Seat Auction, yet

2) Not partake in it, yet

3) Not report it to the authorities.

Without some other yet-unknown variable, those circumstances are so contradictory as to not make sense. We'll see what comes out, though.

58 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:27:56am

re: #38 ggt

Good Morning Lizards! It's still cold and icy in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

It's kinda fun watching all this happen (even if it's my own state).

How are you-all?

Good morning, ggt! It is cold and windy in the Mojave today--but it is a dry cold and windy....

59 vapig  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:28:39am

re: #56 ploome hineni

Charles asks:


Nobama is a pathologic liar

So was Slick Willie Clinton

60 Steffan  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:28:40am

re: #14 alexknyc

I don't get why Obama thought anyone with half a working brain (which leaves the media on the sidelines) would believe he had NO discussions with Blagojevich about the vacant Senate seat?

Of course he had discussions about it. It's also highly improbable that Blagojevich clued Obama in on the little auction he was having for it.

Lying about things that are so easily proven false is a bad move. It's also the sign of a pathological liar. On the other hand, with the media's lips so firmly attached to his ass, Obama may think he can get away with lying about anything.

Up to now, he has gotten away with it, because the MSM has been covering up for him. This is a little too blatant.

61 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:28:43am

re: #56 ploome hineni

Charles asks:

Nobama is a narcissistic pathologic liar

Just needed to add that ...

62 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:28:49am

Impeach the zero!

63 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:28:59am

re: #52 debutaunt

Obama has effectively ignored the fact of the Electoral College.

It means little this time. The Dem electors would vote for Obama even if he was found standing over a body with the smoking gun in one hand and a roll of dirty money in the other.

64 USCMSNE  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:29:16am

I love watching the news when this story comes up. I don't know why we seem surprised (we, meaning everyone else). It's Chicago politics. They make movies about this stuff. The only thing I'm holding my breath on is when the press really starts digging into the beginning of Obama's career and see who all has scratched his back and vice versa. There is no way anyone can have a meteoric rise in any political environment, especially Chicago, and not have sold their soul (literally and metaphorically).

65 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:29:16am

Hey 52%!

Good job, morons.

Thanks a lot.

66 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:29:19am

Hopey Changey a man for all seasons...

/spit!

67 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:29:30am
68 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:29:33am

re: #62 newsjunkie_ky

Impeach the zero!

You can't impeach someone who isn't peached yet?

69 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:29:58am

re: #54 vapig

Or a "stop the smear" czar

They could appoint Colin Powell.

70 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:13am

Now Obama will say that he never said that he nor his staff didn't discuss this with the governor. That's what he did with the Iran issue: he lied and said he never said he'd meet unconditionally without preconditions. Liar.

Dr Martha Stout who wrote The Sociopath Next Door teaches the Rule of 3:

When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has.

Make the Rule of Threes your personal policy. One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding instead. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says you're dealing with a liar, and deceit is the linchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly.

Do not give your money, your work, your secrets, or your affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted.

Here is a short interview with Dr. Stout about how to deal with your average conscience-challenged person.

71 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:30am

re: #6 debutaunt

The Chicago machine of corruption - how nice for us.

As if anyone expected anything less from the Big Zero crew.

72 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:32am

re: #69 rightymouse

They could appoint Colin Powell.

Grrr, dont get me started on him! Dirtbag!

73 wahabicorridor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:37am

re: #44 invictus1

Then again, it's possible they do have something to hide.

I can't imagine what. It's very clear from the transcipt that Blogjevich was totally disgusted with the Obama people because they only thing he was going to get out of them was 'appreciation'.

74 itellu3times  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:37am

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

What is illegal is if they start trying to sell it.

Well, hmm, exactly what is the wording of the statute that would be violated in this case? Generic bribery, I assume. Must actually be laws to that effect, but presuming that this has not yet taken place, it would have to be conspiracy to violate these other laws, but even conspiracy requires specific acts and states of mind. Without doubting the alleged events actually took place, I still wonder if any of it is provable in a court of law.

This prosecutor is the same Patrick Fitzgerald who railroaded Scooter Libby, right? Is this his make-good?

75 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:40am

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

It means little this time. The Dem electors would vote for Obama even if he was found standing over a body with the smoking gun in one hand and a roll of dirty money in the other.

I like the traditions way more than 0 does.

76 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:41am

re: #58 SurferDoc

Oh yeah, humidity always makes the difference.

77 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:30:46am

re: #69 rightymouse

They could appoint Colin Powell.

Why is the positoin of dog catcher already filled?

78 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:31:30am
So now, the question becomes, “Why did Barack Obama flatly deny that any discussions took place?” He had to have known about Emanuel’s talks with Blagojevich; it’s hard to see this as anything other than a lie.

That's not quite true. There are still -- in the flavor of post 57 -- a few variables that must be considered, if we're going on sheer reason.

79 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:31:31am

re: #39 NelsFree

Will this cause the O to reschedule his Address From a Major Muslim Capital? While I'm on that thought train, is Washington, DC, a "Major Christian Capital"?

* * *
The Washington Post's "On Religion" column by atheist Sally Quinn, suggested Obama attend DC's "National" Cathedral because it's not very Christian, or words to that effect. Good church for Obama because it's not really churchy, or it's the place for people who don't do church.

Reverend Wright got his divinity degree in DC at Howard University I think. Howard U, a federally-funded historically black college that spews ugly scholarship, who would have thunk it.

80 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:31:41am

re: #56 ploome hineni

Charles asks:

Nobama is a pathologic liar

Fm Yes Minister, Sir Humphrey Appleby to Bernard Wooley:
Are you really a high flyer or just a low flyer sustained by occasional gusts of wind?

81 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:31:41am

Just in time for Christmas "Hopey Changey Action Figure" grom Hasbro.

82 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:31:46am

re: #22 MandyManners

I might change the "C" for "Commie" to "C" for "Corrupt" in CBBHO.

No, just add another C.........C2B2HO

83 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:31:59am

I can understand democrats (and republicans were it applicable) wanting to discuss with each other who should take a vacant seat, but Constitutionally, it's the Governor's call. He doesn't need the input or approval of the person vacating the seat as to the replacement. But, because of their love of power and consolidation, the democrats now have a big problem on their hands.

Pity- I feel none for them.

84 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:32:01am

re: #67 ploome hineni

Rahm is sliding towards the bus

/look at how Nobama controls BIden.........where IS he? and of course now Rahm is incommunicado

Yeah - put Biden on the Sunday talk shows!

85 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:32:21am

re: #57 Cognito

Good comprehensive analysis, Cognito. What do you figure the odds are that Rahm ends up under the bus?

86 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:32:23am
“Why did Barack Obama flatly deny that any discussions took place?”

He said he was "confident that no represntatives of [his] would have any part of any deals related to this seat".

/he never said that "discussions" never took place

87 Opinionated  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:32:48am

re: #69 rightymouse

They could appoint Colin Powell.

Latest rumor is that he has a job for Powell. Mideast negotiator. In other words, a Torquemada for Israel.

88 Earick  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:32:57am

As much as I hated the GOP's defeat in this last election, it is sure easier watching the Dems get "Borked" instead!
Can you imagine what the MSM would be doing to Mc and Palin right now if they were elected?

Next drinking game... Every time a talking head says impeach and Obama in the same sentence... throw back a shooter!

89 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:33:33am

He said Israel is sincere in wanting peace with Syria but stressed that no genuine peace could be achieved unless Israel withdrew from Arab territories in Syria, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.


[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Well so much for negotiations?

90 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:33:47am

re: #81 Dustyvet

Just in time for Christmas "Hopey Changey Action Figure" grom Hasbro.

Does it stick its head up its ass?

91 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:33:50am
92 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:01am

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Good comprehensive analysis, Cognito. What do you figure the odds are that Rahm ends up under the bus?

It depends, I think, on which of those possibilities is the correct one. They're so vastly different -- which is to say we simply have no idea what the federal investigators know -- that it's impossible to draw odds at this point.

93 hermit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:02am

re: #82 LGoPs

No, just add another C.........C2B2HO

I kinda like just C2B2....has a nice ring.

94 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:07am

re: #88 Earick

Next drinking game... Every time a talking head says impeach and Obama in the same sentence... throw back a shooter!

We'll be stone cold sober.

95 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:29am

re: #70 DistantThunder

Now Obama will say that he never said that he nor his staff didn't discuss this with the governor. That's what he did with the Iran issue: he lied and said he never said he'd meet unconditionally without preconditions. Liar.

Dr Martha Stout who wrote The Sociopath Next Door teaches the Rule of 3:


Here is a short interview with Dr. Stout about how to deal with your average conscience-challenged person.

Ian Fleming in Goldfinger:
"We have a saying in Chicago Mr. Bond. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times its enemy action."

96 CapeCoddah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:32am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Does it stick its head up its ass?

It's head is permanently stuck up its ass.

97 invictus1  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:51am

re: #73 wahabicorridor

I can't imagine what. It's very clear from the transcipt that Blogjevich was totally disgusted with the Obama people because they only thing he was going to get out of them was 'appreciation'.

I don't think so, either. But still, how Obama and his people have handled this thing makes them, as I say, look guilty. And we all know that'd be enough to bring down a Republican..

98 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:52am
99 Dustyvet  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:53am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Does it stick its head up its ass?

Not yet, but we'll add that to the design...

It's nose does grow when it lies, however.

100 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:57am

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Good comprehensive analysis, Cognito. What do you figure the odds are that Rahm ends up under the bus the msm actually investigates this throughly?

I think that's a better question.

101 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:34:59am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Does it stick its head up its ass?

If you pull the string, it puts its foot in its mouth.

102 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:35:15am

re: #70 DistantThunder

Thanks for that link - hearted, and updinged you.
Good stuff!

103 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:35:25am

Rahm Emanuel should get exactly the same benefit of the doubt as Scooter Libby got - which is exactly Zero.......

Democrats deserve scorched earth politics - they invented it....

104 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:35:42am

re: #56 ploome hineni

Charles asks:
Nobama is a pathologic liar

It depends how you define "discussion"./

105 jaunte  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:35:43am

re: #91 ploome hineni

That would certainly give "Dreams from my Father" a bleaker meaning.

106 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:35:57am

"Peter" Obama

The Peter Principle is the principle that "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence." While formulated by Dr. Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1968 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise which also introduced the "salutary science of Hierarchiology", "inadvertently founded" by Peter, the principle has real validity. It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain. Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".
107 alexknyc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:36:03am

re: #88 Earick

As much as I hated the GOP's defeat in this last election, it is sure easier watching the Dems get "Borked" instead!
Can you imagine what the MSM would be doing to Mc and Palin right now if they were elected?

Next drinking game... Every time a talking head says impeach and Obama in the same sentence... throw back a shooter!


You'll still be sober four years from now.

108 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:36:06am

re: #68 Nevergiveup

You can't impeach someone who isn't peached yet?


I'm just getting into practice. I'm going to say that to everything, just like the llls did to Bush. And I'm going to blame obama as well.

109 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:36:27am

re: #79 alegrias


Federal funds paid for a divinity degree?

110 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:37:20am
111 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:37:21am

re: #100 Sharmuta

I think that's a better question.

Well, I think the Chicago Tribune will investigate this one properly. If they do a through job, I'll even subscribe to the Tribune again.

112 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:37:22am

it would only be expected for the O camp to talk to blago.
their running the other way as fast as they can, denying any and all conversations w/ him, tells us a lot abt. what they most likely discussed.
pay to play is the game in chicago.
the O is such a dolt and a liar. he has created a very suspect, awkward situation for himself by making defensive statements in the beginning.
of course, he has gotten away w/ every kind of bad behavior so far, why would he think he couldn't continue that forever.
what a bunch of buffoons.

113 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:37:32am

re: #47 sbvft contributor

You know what tickes me off? Barry's initial choice to replace him. This slumlord Valerie Jarrett?:

NRO: An excerpt from a June Boston Globe piece on Obama and Chicago's housing policies:

CHICAGO - The squat brick buildings of Grove Parc Plaza, in a dense neighborhood that Barack Obama represented for eight years as a state senator, hold 504 apartments subsidized by the federal government for people who can't afford to live anywhere else.

But it's not safe to live here.

About 99 of the units are vacant, many rendered uninhabitable by unfixed problems, such as collapsed roofs and fire damage. Mice scamper through the halls. Battered mailboxes hang open. Sewage backs up into kitchen sinks. In 2006, federal inspectors graded the condition of the complex an 11 on a 100-point scale - a score so bad the buildings now face demolition.

Grove Parc has become a symbol for some in Chicago of the broader failures of giving public subsidies to private companies to build and manage affordable housing - an approach strongly backed by Obama as the best replacement for public housing. [...]

Valerie Jarrett, a senior adviser to Obama's presidential campaign and a member of his finance committee. Jarrett is the chief executive of Habitat Co., which managed Grove Parc Plaza from 2001 until this winter and co-managed an even larger subsidized complex in Chicago that was seized by the federal government in 2006, after city inspectors found widespread problems.

* * *
Hillary Clinton accused Obama of having slumlords as friends. Of course, Hillary Rodham was a lucrative ripoff real estate profiteer too, evicting people who bought small plots of land in the Whitewater Development and missed so much as one payment--then foreclosing on them, taking their property and deposits and selling to another unsuspecting Arkansan.

114 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:37:41am

re: #108 newsjunkie_ky

I'm just getting into practice. I'm going to say that to everything, just like the llls did to Bush. And I'm going to blame obama as well.

"And I'm going to blame some of the people here in this room, and that I don't forgive!"

115 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:37:53am
116 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:38:16am

re: #72 Wishing

Grrr, dont get me started on him! Dirtbag!

I remember how he stood up to Belafonte's nonsense.

For a while now, he's nobody I ever knew.

117 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:38:20am

re: #86 Killian Bundy

He said he was "confident that no represntatives of [his] would have any part of any deals related to this seat".

/he never said that "discussions" never took place

But this answer violates the ethical rule of candor which is telling people what you believe they are really asking and want to know. Obama absolutely knows that we want to know who on his team had discussions with the governor - and he has chosen a technically accurate but unethical response.

Obama is unethical as history has shown, and as future events will reveal.

118 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:38:31am

re: #101 gclaghorn

If you pull the string, it puts its foot in its mouth.

Though you can prevent that by buying the teleprompter accessory. Sold separately.

119 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:38:59am

I heard on the radio that Blago has only a 4% approval rating in the latest polls. Those must be the people that still think they might get appointed to the senate seat.....
/

120 wahabicorridor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:39:03am

re: #70 DistantThunder

That was a VERY interesting piece, thank you. We have a sociopath in the family and this describes her perfectly.

She's an Episcopalian priest - SO much more room for manipulation!

121 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:39:27am

The CCC,

Corrupt
Chicago
Communists

A Young Man's Opportunity
With patch

122 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:39:27am

re: #73 wahabicorridor

I can't imagine what. It's very clear from the transcipt that Blogjevich was totally disgusted with the Obama people because they only thing he was going to get out of them was 'appreciation'.

* * *
Hi, W. Corridor. Blago isn't stupid--he knew Obama's people raised over $750,000,000, and Obama promised to "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND".

I heard it on TV!

123 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:07am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

One of the members of our unelected 4th branch of government, The Chicago Tribune, was a part of why Blago got busted. He tried to mess with the free press.

I think they'll hang him for this and anyone else who was part of it.

124 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:14am

re: #77 Nevergiveup

Why is the positoin of dog catcher already filled?


Yeah...it does look like he's been jonesying for a position in 'O's' administration, eh?

125 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:14am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Does it stick its head up its ass?

LOL!

126 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:15am

What sub-slogan do you prefer for my "O-mpeach" bumperstickers?
(The "O" will be an Obama logo)

"No Liars in the White House"

or

"The Senate Is Not For Sale."

or

"Blah! Go home already."

127 Earick  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:16am

OK OK...Throw back a shooter every time the MSM DOES NOT say impeach and Obama in the same sentence ...That ought to take away the pain

128 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:24am

re: #121 lifeofthemind

The CCC,

Corrupt
Chicago
Communists

A Young Man's Opportunity
With patch

Scary! A good find, but scary.

129 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:34am

re: #86 Killian Bundy

He said he was "confident that no represntatives of [his] would have any part of any deals related to this seat".

/he never said that "discussions" never took place

In fact, if you listen to the press conference, it's clear that he wasn't denying that his staff might have had contact with the Blagojevich camp about the seat. All he said is that he was confident that no one on his staff made any "deals" for the seat.

/one is not like the other

130 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:36am

re: #123 ggt

I wonder if he'll he'll be tried on 1st Amendment charges?

131 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:49am

re: #87 Opinionated

Latest rumor is that he has a job for Powell. Mideast negotiator. In other words, a Torquemada for Israel.


Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

132 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:40:55am
133 iam7545  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:41:10am

Obama Lied


Blago Fried

134 ruexperienced  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:41:15am

re: #15 CapeCoddah

This does not bode well for "Change" unless the change 0 meant was the complete Chicago style corruption of the Federal government, as if it was not bad enough as it is. He has not even been inaugurated yet, and already, the lies, the corruption...

Sweet.

Delicious.

IRONY.

The leftards get what they deserve and the rest of us will get to elect a new president in four years.

On election day, even I didn't think things would unravel this fast for Obama...

All I can say is WOW !

135 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:41:41am

re: #126 zombie

"The Senate Is Not For Sale."

That one's the funniest.

136 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:42:05am

This talk of impeaching 0bama is a bit unrealistic. It's not going to happen. The democrat controlled House is not going to investigate this, they would not pass articles of impeachment, and at this point I don't think we've seen anything that rises to an impeachable offense, frankly.

Not telling the press the truth? Not impeachable.
Underlings in trouble? Not impeachable.

I really think we should refrain from calls for impeachment at this point, lest we want to look like the moonbats who thought Bush breathing was an impeachable offense.

137 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:42:15am

Gonna need more popcorn.

138 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:42:25am

re: #135 Occasional Reader

That one's the funniest.

I'm liking that one best, myself.

139 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:43:09am

re: #129 Killian Bundy

In fact, if you listen to the press conference, it's clear that he wasn't denying that his staff might have had contact with the Blagojevich camp about the seat. All he said is that he was confident that no one on his staff made any "deals" for the seat.

/one is not like the other

That's true. And that's why I don't understand why anyone would start using the word "impeached" already. Sounds like Obama Derangement Syndrome to me.

140 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:43:23am

re: #117 DistantThunder

But this answer violates the ethical rule of candor which is telling people what you believe they are really asking and want to know. Obama absolutely knows that we want to know who on his team had discussions with the governor - and he has chosen a technically accurate but unethical response.

/and, again, if you listen to what he actually said at the news conference, he said he was gathering that very information for public release in a few days

141 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:43:24am

re: #136 Sharmuta

This talk of impeaching 0bama is a bit unrealistic. It's not going to happen. The democrat controlled House is not going to investigate this, they would not pass articles of impeachment, and at this point I don't think we've seen anything that rises to an impeachable offense, frankly.

Not telling the press the truth? Not impeachable.
Underlings in trouble? Not impeachable.

I really think we should refrain from calls for impeachment at this point, lest we want to look like the moonbats who thought Bush breathing was an impeachable offense.

Your 100% right, but what about crucification since it kinda goes along with the title of Messiah anyway?

142 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:43:26am

re: #133 iam7545

Obama Lied


Blago Fried

Loves it!

143 CapeCoddah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:43:29am

re: #134 ruexperienced

Sweet.

Delicious.

IRONY.

The leftards get what they deserve and the rest of us will get to elect a new president in four years.

On election day, even I didn't think things would unravel this fast for Obama...

All I can say is WOW !

A whole lot of nasty damage can be done in those four years. Methinks revenge will not be so sweet compared to the coming disaster and it's long, far and deep reaching consequences.

144 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:43:47am

re: #126 zombie


"The Senate Is Not For Sale."


For Rent maybe?

145 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:29am

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

That's true. And that's why I don't understand why anyone would start using the word "impeached" already. Sounds like Obama Derangement Syndrome to me.

ODS sounds like a very odious idea to me, too...*snicker*

146 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:30am

re: #136 Sharmuta

This talk of impeaching 0bama is a bit unrealistic. It's not going to happen. The democrat controlled House is not going to investigate this, they would not pass articles of impeachment, and at this point I don't think we've seen anything that rises to an impeachable offense, frankly.

I know that. I'm just goading the Left. They spent five years talking about impeaching Bush, when in fact he had done nothing even vaguely impeach-worthy.

It's my payback for having to attend four different "Beach Impeach" events.

147 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:39am

re: #117 DistantThunder

There's still a great deal unknown. We simply don't know enough to speculate yet with any accuracy what Emanuel might or might not be guilty of; much less Obama.

Could be as simple as this:

Blagojevich: "Hey, congratulations on the win, Rahm. Let's see what we can make happen with the empty seat. I've got some proposals for you."

Emanuel: "Thanks, but we've got everything we need. I'll send you a list."


Or, conversely, it could be as bad as this:


Blagojevich: "I'm selling this puppy. You guys are rich. Want to buy it?"

Emanuel: "No, but good luck. I know some guys who might be able help you out, as long as the President Elect's friends get a taste."

We simply don't know. What we do know is that Blagojevich later said on a wiretapped line that Obama's people "aren't going to give me anything but appreciation. [Expletive] them."

Should be interesting to see how it unfolds.

148 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:39am

re: #117 DistantThunder

But this answer violates the ethical rule of candor which is telling people what you believe they are really asking and want to know. Obama absolutely knows that we want to know who on his team had discussions with the governor - and he has chosen a technically accurate but unethical response.

Obama is unethical as history has shown, and as future events will reveal.


He is just speaking obamanese, much like clinton spoke clintonese. They are both unethical lawyers.

149 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:40am

re: #136 Sharmuta

I really think we should refrain from calls for impeachment at this point,

I agree. And as noted above, I do NOT relish the idea; it would be incredibly traumatic for the country.

But I have to stay, it's disturbing the pattern that's emerging... lots of smoke, are Obama's pants on fire?

150 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:41am

re: #120 wahabicorridor

That was a VERY interesting piece, thank you. We have a sociopath in the family and this describes her perfectly.

She's an Episcopalian priest - SO much more room for manipulation!

Dr Stout says one in 25 people is sociopathic - but these are socialized sociopaths - they pretend to be average and normal - and often rise to great heights in business and politics.

151 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:44am

re: #144 lifeofthemind

Rent, or long-term-lease. Remember, in Chicago, seats at the Board-of-Trade are regulary bargained for. Blago just got confused.

152 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:46am

Countdown for the next "I'm appalled" from the Messiah concerning another of his admired friends doing something despicable. 10, 9, 8, 7 ...

153 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:46am

re: #87 Opinionated

Latest rumor is that he has a job for Powell. Mideast negotiator. In other words, a Torquemada for Israel.

BHO has a yard sale on the WH lawn on Jan. 21.
Items for sale.
One Senate Seat.
Israel.
1st Amend.
2nd Amend.

154 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:57am

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

That's true. And that's why I don't understand why anyone would start using the word "impeached" already. Sounds like Obama Derangement Syndrome to me.

I agree. Way early and impeachment would not only fail but make the GOP look bad.

155 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:44:57am

re: #132 ploome hineni

it is awful when people manipulate like that

you never know what they really mean

always thinking ahead for the 'out'

What if the feds were behind it? What if Rahm knew that the feds had wiretaps? What if the feds ask Obama and his camp to keep their mouths shut.

After all , the feds already said, in public, that the Obama people are not under any criminal investigation.

156 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:45:05am

to repeat what Charles said above:

So now, the question becomes, “Why did Barack Obama flatly deny that any discussions took place?” He had to have known about Emanuel’s talks with Blagojevich; it’s hard to see this as anything other than a lie.

157 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:45:20am

re: #136 Sharmuta

This talk of impeaching 0bama is a bit unrealistic. It's not going to happen. The democrat controlled House is not going to investigate this, they would not pass articles of impeachment, and at this point I don't think we've seen anything that rises to an impeachable offense, frankly.

Not telling the press the truth? Not impeachable.
Underlings in trouble? Not impeachable.

I really think we should refrain from calls for impeachment at this point, lest we want to look like the moonbats who thought Bush breathing was an impeachable offense.

Absolutely agree. We need to hold fire until there's something we can effectively fire on..........I have infinite faith that this administration will become a target rich environment - politically speaking.

158 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:45:49am

re: #87 Opinionated

Latest rumor is that he has a job for Powell. Mideast negotiator. In other words, a Torquemada for Israel.

* * *
When Powell was given the opportunity to lead 600,000 US Troops to topple Saddam Hussein (toppled 12 years later by better generals than Powell), who paid Palis $25,000 per head for killing Jewish people, Powell DECLINED to stop genocide & murder.

Powell, bad as General George McClellan, whom President Lincoln SACKED.

Obama should SACK Colin Powell, not promote him.

Powell, perfumed general.

159 ggt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:45:51am

have a great day all!

160 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:46:02am

re: #146 zombie

It's my payback for having to attend four different "Beach Impeach" events.

Hey, I'm old enough to remember (much as I hate to admit it) that during the Watergate affair, Baskin-Robbins actually rolled out an ice cream flavor called "Im-Peach-Mint".

I'm not kidding.

161 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:46:11am

re: #136 Sharmuta


I really think we should refrain from calls for impeachment at this point, lest we want to look like the moonbats who thought Bush breathing was an impeachable offense.

Up ding for that. I have been fighting that issue all morning.

162 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:46:14am

re: #149 Occasional Reader

I agree. And as noted above, I do NOT relish the idea; it would be incredibly traumatic for the country.

Hey, it's a JOKE! Obviously no one's gonna impeach Obama. I'm just playing with their minds.

163 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:46:22am

re: #123 ggt

One of the members of our unelected 4th branch of government, The Chicago Tribune, was a part of why Blago got busted. He tried to mess with the free press.

I think they'll hang him for this and anyone else who was part of it.

That's another reason Blago is toast. The MSM did not appreciate him trying to put the arm to one of their own. They'll see him imprisoned. The real question is will they way follow the story no matter where it goes. My guess is no.

164 NelsFree  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:46:54am

re: #126 zombie

What sub-slogan do you prefer for my "O-mpeach" bumperstickers?
(The "O" will be an Obama logo)

"No Liars in the White House"

or

"The Senate Is Not For Sale."

or

"Blah! Go home already."


How about:
"What media bias?"

165 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:47:07am

re: #151 ggt

Rent, or long-term-lease. Remember, in Chicago, seats at the Board-of-Trade are regulary bargained for. Blago just got confused.

Robert Heinlien's definition of an honest politician, stays bought.

166 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:47:25am

re: #156 FrogMarch

to repeat what Charles said above:
“Why did Barack Obama flatly deny that any discussions took place?”

There's only one problem.

/he never said anything even resembling that

167 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:47:26am

re: #158 alegrias

When Powell was given the opportunity to lead 600,000 US Troops to topple Saddam Hussein (toppled 12 years later by better generals than Powell), who paid Palis $25,000 per head for killing Jewish people, Powell DECLINED to stop genocide & murder.

Um, that was Bush (41)'s call, not Powell's.

168 Earick  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:47:37am

Impeachment... I can dream can't I!

With the national GOP in about the same shape as they are in the Socialist Republic of California, that is to say powerless. We will get to enjoy ALL four years of the big O.

169 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:47:57am

re: #162 zombie

Hey, it's a JOKE! Obviously no one's gonna impeach Obama. I'm just playing with their minds.

And since Obama is not even president yet, he self-evidently cannot be impeached.

I just wanna see the lefties squirm.

170 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:48:01am

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Um, that was Bush (41)'s call, not Powell's.

On the advise of Powell!

171 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:48:14am

re: #146 zombie

I know that. I'm just goading the Left. They spent five years talking about impeaching Bush, when in fact he had done nothing even vaguely impeach-worthy.

It's my payback for having to attend four different "Beach Impeach" events.

So, I guess what the left talked about for 8 years was it's payback for conservative talking about impeaching Clinton and then it happened.

So it's alright because they did it?

172 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:02am

re: #140 Killian Bundy

/and, again, if you listen to what he actually said at the news conference, he said he was gathering that very information for public release in a few days

He should have been able to "collect" this information in 1 day, probably in 1 hour because it was only a handful, if that, of his closest people who were involved in this. Do you really think they weren't keeping him up to date on an hour by hour basis after they had these conversations? Of course they did. It's not like they have other jobs - this IS their job.

Obama is hiding, and obfuscating.

173 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:11am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds were behind it? What if Rahm knew that the feds had wiretaps? What if the feds ask Obama and his camp to keep their mouths shut.

After all , the feds already said, in public, that the Obama people are not under any criminal investigation.

Yep.
But its interesting, isn't it, that B0 lied anyway when asked a dircet question.
He might have said that he can't say anything as its an ongoing investigation.
End of story.

But no - he had to lie. Seems like a reflex action.

174 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:12am

re: #146 zombie

I know that. I'm just goading the Left. They spent five years talking about impeaching Bush, when in fact he had done nothing even vaguely impeach-worthy.

It's my payback for having to attend four different "Beach Impeach" events.

I can understand that, but after what we've seen with the kookier amongst our side on the right with the Nirth Certificate, I would be concerned that it would fuel a dangerous fire. However- I'm sure they're already thinking impeachment anyways.

175 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:24am

re: #168 Earick

Impeachment... I can dream can't I!

With the national GOP in about the same shape as they are in the Socialist Republic of California, that is to say powerless. We will get to enjoy ALL four years of the big O.

And you can sound like you have Obama Derangement Syndrome too! Have at it.

176 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:35am

re: #170 Nevergiveup

On the advise of Powell!

"The buck stops here."

177 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:50am

re: #152 Daisy

Countdown for the next "I'm appalled" from the Messiah concerning another of his admired friends doing something despicable. 10, 9, 8, 7 ...

Just change the name "Jeremiah Wright" in Obama's race speech to "Rod Blagojevich":

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright's sermons Rod Blagojevich's dealings is not that he spoke about racism in our society tried to sell a Senate seat. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for buy one of the the highest offices in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope - the audacity to hope - for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

178 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:54am

re: #156 FrogMarch

to repeat what Charles said above:

Because he knows that large amounts of people (and 99% of the msm) will believe anything that comes out of his mouth ...so he has to say that so his believers will then say ...

"See ...Obama said he didn't know anything ...so he didn't know anything ...so now stop saying those ugly things about Obama ..."

179 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:49:54am

re: #171 Walter L. Newton

So, I guess what the left talked about for 8 years was it's payback for conservative talking about impeaching Clinton and then it happened.

So it's alright because they did it?

The difference is that Clinton did a very specific thing (lying under oath) which, as it turned out, WAS impeachable.

Bush didn't. BIG difference.

180 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:50:05am

re: #166 Killian Bundy

There's only one problem.

/he never said anything even resembling that

Yep. Discretion is needed. Otherwise Obama's opponents will -- once again -- look like a pack of morons trying to pin him with imaginary misdeeds and secrets, et cetera.

181 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:50:26am

re: #173 yma o hyd

Yep.
But its interesting, isn't it, that B0 lied anyway when asked a dircet question.
He might have said that he can't say anything as its an ongoing investigation.
End of story.

But no - he had to lie. Seems like a reflex action.

Have you seen the other posts on this thread. Obama didn't lie.
Geeesssshhhh.

182 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:50:38am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds were behind it? What if Rahm knew that the feds had wiretaps? What if the feds ask Obama and his camp to keep their mouths shut.

After all , the feds already said, in public, that the Obama people are not under any criminal investigation.

You think Rahm would have used all that foul language if he knew he was being taped? Ha.

183 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:50:38am

re: #166 Killian Bundy

There's only one problem.

/he never said anything even resembling that


'No contact whatsoever....' Why say that when there was contact? Why say that? People lie when they want to hide something.

184 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:51:05am

How long until they find very bad pictures on Blago's computer?

185 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:51:28am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds were behind it? What if Rahm knew that the feds had wiretaps? What if the feds ask Obama and his camp to keep their mouths shut.

After all , the feds already said, in public, that the Obama people are not under any criminal investigation.

What if, knowing he was wiretapped, Gov. B. said into the mike, "f--k Obama won't play" (or whatever the exact words he said on that score). I don't usually go towards paranoia .. know it sounds paranoid .. but still .. and all ..

(btw, in case you didn't read it .. "up" was what remained when I tried to write the word soup w/out the "s" and the "o" .. as in, "How'd your soup turn out?" :)

186 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:51:28am

Let's use the 48 day rule here, please (IMHO)

187 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:51:37am

re: #176 Occasional Reader

"The buck stops here."

Absolutely the buck stops with the President. But Powell seems to have a selective memory on a few things.

188 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:51:42am

re: #178 JacksonTn

Because he knows that large amounts of people (and 99% of the msm) will believe anything that comes out of his mouth ...so he has to say that so his believers will then say ...

"See ...Obama said he didn't know anything ...so he didn't know anything ...so now stop saying those ugly things about Obama ..."

Good answer.

189 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:51:43am

re: #179 zombie

which, as it turned out, WAS impeachable.

Kind of a circular argument, to be frank.

190 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:13am

re: #169 zombie

And since Obama is not even president yet, he self-evidently cannot be impeached.

I just wanna see the lefties squirm.

Well don't overstate it, the punishment for conviction after an Impeachment trial can lead to disbarment from ever having a future position of profit or trust. It does not say that you have to be a current government official at the time that you are impeached. In theory anybody at any tie could be brought up on charges.

191 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:21am

re: #186 Walter L. Newton

Let's use the 48 day rule here, please (IMHO)

What's that?

192 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:27am

re: #186 Walter L. Newton

Let's use the 48 day rule here, please (IMHO)

What's that?

193 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:32am

re: #149 Occasional Reader

I agree. And as noted above, I do NOT relish the idea; it would be incredibly traumatic for the country.

But I have to stay, it's disturbing the pattern that's emerging... lots of smoke, are Obama's pants on fire?

IT'S A JOKE! Lighten up, it's just funny that now we get to say 'impeachobama' to everything.

194 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:41am

re: #189 Occasional Reader

Kind of a circular argument, to be frank.

No it's not. No one called for Clinton to be impeached until AFTER he had committed an impeachable offense.

195 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:57am

re: #182 DistantThunder

You think Rahm would have used all that foul language if he knew he was being taped? Ha.

Show me the quote where the "advisor from DC" said "fuck." It was Bloggo who sued all the foul language.

196 Opinionated  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:52:58am

Obama has a solid alibi for everything. He wasn't there.

He was visiting in State number 57 eating their world famous waffles.

197 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:11am

re: #115 ploome hineni

discussion

That's a discussion he couldn't refuse.

198 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:13am

re: #109 ggt

Federal funds paid for a divinity degree?

* * *
Dear GGT, my error. Reverend Wright got his divinity degree from University of Chicago's Divinity School.

Wright got his Bachelors degree and one Master's degree from Howard University, the federally funded historically black school in DC--where Shaka Zulu Mabazz or whatever the hatin' man and Friend Of Obama who's the head of the New Black Panther Party got his law degree--yes, Howard U is federally funded.

199 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:23am

Everyone -

As near as I understand this, "Blago" wanted a quid pro quo for a US Senate Appointment and Obama and his people refused to play. Good for them. If this is NOT the case, let's find out now and be guided accordingly.

-S-

200 daledog  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:29am

Hey Emmanuel:
"na na - na na na na - hey hey hey - goodbye"

You faux-tough, dwarf pussy.

201 wahabicorridor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:29am

HOLA alegrias!

Ok, now Cognito has me thinking. To me, it's fairly clear that Obama wasn't going to pay to play. It's been known since 2006, I believe that the Blog was under investigation. What if Emmanual is not worried about the Senate seat scam, but about something else?

202 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:33am

re: #179 zombie

The difference is that Clinton did a very specific thing (lying under oath) which, as it turned out, WAS impeachable.

Bush didn't. BIG difference.

We know, but that didn't stop the lefty whackos. And I'm not sure it would stop whacko righties, like the Nirthers, from wanting impeachment for 0bama despite the fact an impeachable offense has yet to be uncovered.

203 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:39am
204 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:53:58am

re: #177 gclaghorn

Brilliant! I'm thinking inserting "Ayers" etc. would also work. Great job :)

205 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:54:41am

re: #180 Cognito

Yep. Discretion is needed. Otherwise Obama's opponents will -- once again -- look like a pack of morons trying to pin him with imaginary misdeeds and secrets, et cetera.

Yes have the right of it, Cognito.

206 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:54:53am

re: #172 DistantThunder

Obama is hiding, and obfuscating.

He publicly promised to release the information during the news conference last Thursday.

/personally, I'll cut him some slack for a few days before I start frothing at the mouth and shouting "Stonewall!"

207 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:55:03am

re: #180 Cognito

Yep. Discretion is needed. Otherwise Obama's opponents will -- once again -- look like a pack of morons trying to pin him with imaginary misdeeds and secrets, et cetera.

Rather like the left did non-stop to Bush for 8 years? You'll have to forgive some for wanting some come-uppance here.

208 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:55:04am

re: #174 Sharmuta

I can understand that, but after what we've seen with the kookier amongst our side on the right with the Nirth Certificate, I would be concerned that it would fuel a dangerous fire. However- I'm sure they're already thinking impeachment anyways.

But I proved it with geometrical logic. There was a duplicate key to the icebox and they did steal the strawberries.

209 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:55:08am

But, zombie, if you want to sell "0-mpeach" bumper stickers, the capitalist in me says "go for it".

210 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:55:09am

re: #199 Dr. Shalit

Everyone -

As near as I understand this, "Blago" wanted a quid pro quo for a US Senate Appointment and Obama and his people refused to play. Good for them. If this is NOT the case, let's find out now and be guided accordingly.

-S-

Agreed. That's all the facts that have been released have right now.

211 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:55:12am

re: #162 zombie

Hey, it's a JOKE! Obviously no one's gonna impeach Obama. I'm just playing with their minds.

Thank you! That's what I'm saying, people need to get a sense of humor, we are going to need it for the next 4 years.

212 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:55:46am

All kidding aside, I think the current tap dancing is to see if Rahm can be salvaged or if he has to fall on his sword. Does O have enough clout to get Rahm a teflon coat?

213 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:00am

re: #198 alegrias

* * *
Dear GGT, my error. Reverend Wright got his divinity degree from University of Chicago's Divinity School.

Wright got his Bachelors degree and one Master's degree from Howard University, the federally funded historically black school in DC--where Shaka Zulu Mabazz or whatever the hatin' man and Friend Of Obama who's the head of the New Black Panther Party got his law degree--yes, Howard U is federally funded.

They have a particularly strong History Department. Taught him that we dropped the Bomb on Dec 7th. Any fool knows that that's the day the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor....
/

214 rollingdivision  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:15am

The operative words will be "deal making". The claim will be discussions yes, approved list yes, presidential influence and pressure yes, but no deal making. Think of what the meaning of is, is.

215 Charles  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:19am

re: #166 Killian Bundy

There's only one problem.

/he never said anything even resembling that

Yes, he did. This is a denial:

Asked what contact he'd had with the governor's office about his replacement in the Senate, President-elect Obama today said "I had no contact with the governor or his office and so we were not, I was not aware of what was happening."

216 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:25am

re: #202 Sharmuta

We know, but that didn't stop the lefty whackos. And I'm not sure it would stop whacko righties, like the Nirthers, from wanting impeachment for 0bama despite the fact an impeachable offense has yet to be uncovered.

Maybe there are some closet Nirthers here and we just don't know it.

217 Occasional Reader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:27am

re: #194 zombie

No it's not. No one called for Clinton to be impeached until AFTER he had committed an impeachable offense.

And anything that Congress decides to use as the basis for impeachment charges IS, by definition, an "impeachable offense". That's the circularity. The Constitution itself is quite vague on the subject.

Off to lunch, and Christmas shopping (part deux).

218 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:27am

re: #183 FrogMarch

'No contact whatsoever....' Why say that when there was contact? Why say that? People lie when they want to hide something.

Why would Alexelrod mispeak when he said very definitively "I Know" they've spoken.

219 Dianna  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:34am

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

Agreed. That's all the facts that have been released have right now.

Well, that's fine, but why the lie by Obama? It was a stupid lie!

220 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:40am

re: #173 yma o hyd

But its interesting, isn't it, that B0 lied anyway when asked a dircet question.
He might have said that he can't say anything as its an ongoing investigation.
End of story.

But no - he had to lie. Seems like a reflex action.

No good. Can't lead. Effective leaders always tell the truth. We are in for a rudderless 4 years.

221 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:41am

re: #209 Sharmuta

But, zombie, if you want to sell "0-mpeach" bumper stickers, the capitalist in me says "go for it".

Sigh....I'm not really going to make bumper stickers.

Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

222 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:55am

re: #212 SurferDoc

All kidding aside, I think the current tap dancing is to see if Rahm can be salvaged or if he has to fall on his sword. Does O have enough clout to get Rahm a teflon coat?

The coat Rahm should be worrying about is the cement variant.

223 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:56:58am

re: #176 Occasional Reader

"The buck stops here."

"O-R" -

Of the current political field, the best "Buck Stopper" is the Governor of Alaska.
She will stop that Buck with a "Thirty Oh Six," field strip it, and cook it up for dinner.

-S-

224 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:57:03am

re: #168 Earick

Impeachment... I can dream can't I!

With the national GOP in about the same shape as they are in the Socialist Republic of California, that is to say powerless. We will get to enjoy ALL four years of the big O.

* * *
Perhaps you've missed signs of GOP life from Senator Corker of Tennessee and Senator McConnell of Kentucky, standing up to the bailout pushermen and women?

Perhaps you missed that that GOP brought Rip Van Winkle McCain pretty close--instead of TOTAL WIPEOUT--considering the head winds and resistance to Republicans & to ANYone NOT a liberal?

225 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:57:08am
226 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:57:16am

re: #212 SurferDoc

All kidding aside, I think the current tap dancing is to see if Rahm can be salvaged or if he has to fall on his sword. Does O have enough clout to get Rahm a teflon coat?

It is looking more and more like Rahm is done. Unless he was part of the sting and cooperated with the FBI investigation early on.

227 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:57:20am

re: #183 FrogMarch

'No contact whatsoever....' Why say that when there was contact? Why say that? People lie when they want to hide something.

He was talking about himself, "regarding this subject". Listen to the whole news conference.

/geez, the ODS is starting early

228 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:57:54am

re: #211 newsjunkie_ky

Thank you! That's what I'm saying, people need to get a sense of humor, we are going to need it for the next 4 years.

My point is this will fuel the crazies like the Nirthers.

229 MandyManners  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:57:59am

re: #221 zombie

Sigh....I'm not really going to make bumper stickers.

Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

If it matters, I laughed.

230 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:58:15am

re: #219 Dianna

Well, that's fine, but why the lie by Obama? It was a stupid lie!

What if the feds asked him and Rahm to keep their mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed.

231 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:58:16am

re: #215 Charles

"I"

Dude is slick.

232 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:58:34am

re: #226 Racer X

It is looking more and more like Rahm is done. Unless he was part of the sting and cooperated with the FBI investigation early on.

I think that, or some variant, is what they are trying to see if they can sell.

233 abilene  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:58:47am

re: #211 newsjunkie_ky

Thank you! That's what I'm saying, people need to get a sense of humor, we are going to need it for the next 4 years.

OK. No impeachment. War Crimes!

234 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:59:13am

re: #221 zombie

Sigh....I'm not really going to make bumper stickers.

Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

Zombie ...FWIW ...I think it is funny ...cuz the alternative is too scary ...we better have a good sense of humor cuz we are gonna need it ...that said I don't want anything to happen to him that will hurt the country ...but we are not writing this script ...Obama is ...

235 Charles  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:59:15am

re: #231 Racer X

"I"

Dude is slick.

Not that slick. He said both "we" and "I".

236 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 10:59:59am

That was the Imperial "We" I believe.

237 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:00:03am

re: #231 Racer X

"I"

Dude is slick.

What if the feds asked the dude to keep his mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed. Maybe he was doing something helpful?

238 NelsFree  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:00:09am

re: #203 Syrah

Et Tu Blago?

Make your own.


I used "FAUXPE" Now, I have to explain it.

FAUXPE = FAUX + HOPE - HO

239 Dianna  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:00:20am

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds asked him and Rahm to keep their mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed.

Perhaps.

I still don't like the way Obama came out and spoke at that press conference. It annoys me. Whether it ends up being a flat out lie or not, it has all the hallmarks of one.

240 lifeofthemind  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:00:26am

re: #221 zombie

Sigh....I'm not really going to make bumper stickers.

Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

Take it as a compliment, these days we all want to laugh but we also all want to see each other make a nickel, if you have a good idea and people encourage it that is a good thing.

241 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:00:46am

re: #219 Dianna

Well, that's fine, but why the lie by Obama? It was a stupid lie!

Because he is a coward and a political survivor who does whatever he has to do to survive. This cowardly streak I see in him makes it necessary for him to surround himself with heavy handed thugs like Rahm. They do for him what he is too impotent to do for himself. When he is put directly on the spot - he lies in self defense.

242 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:00:53am

re: #235 Charles

Not that slick. He said both "we" and "I".

Well, Charles, I have to ask you opinion on this (which I just posted)...

What if the feds asked the dude to keep his mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed. Maybe he was doing something helpful?

243 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:01:04am

re: #235 Charles

Not that slick. He said both "we" and "I".

"We" in the royal sense? He is prepared to "rule" from day one you know. His staffer said so.

244 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:01:18am

re: #218 DistantThunder

Why would Alexelrod mispeak when he said very definitively "I Know" they've spoken.

I do not know. but the double speak and the back-tracking and the silence are all very odd.
I think the Obama campaign has enjoyed such easy success dodging, lying and manipulating a compliant press - they don't know what hit them.

245 Karridine  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:01:28am

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds asked the dude to keep his mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed. Maybe he was doing something helpful?

Carefully parsed ALSO works in cases of CYA, Walt...

246 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:01:57am

blago is such a pos he was going to block an 8 million dollar allocation to a children's hospital because he hadn't received his 50,000 dollar political donation from them.
that tells me everything i need to know abt that assh*le.
a sociopath.
O campaigned for him. spoke at fund raisers on his behalf. worked w/ him for yrs.
but of course the O has, yet again, managed to remain a saint, in spite of so much graft, vice and depravity swirling all around him.
the O is untainted.
lol

247 Earick  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:02am

Oh, hell! I think I'll do a shot every time the msm defends the BigO!

Now that will get me through the next four years!

248 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:07am

re: #203 Syrah

Et Tu Blago?

Make your own.

Posted mine this morning in the overnight thread.

[Link: www.pentdego.com...]

249 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:16am

re: #227 Killian Bundy

He was talking about himself, "regarding this subject". Listen to the whole news conference.

/geez, the ODS is starting early

He did change the "we" to "I". /My ODS is my business.

250 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:30am

re: #245 Karridine

Carefully parsed ALSO works in cases of CYA, Walt...

Correct. But that is why I am asking the question. At this point we have no more facts to know if it is an either/or comment.

251 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:38am

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds asked him and Rahm to keep their mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed.

Walter -

Agreed - there is something off-putting about the comments from Obama and Co. Were it I, and I was clean, I would be bragging about it unless there were substantive reasons not to.

-S-

252 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:46am

re: #246 nyc redneck

The O cannot detect evil.

253 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:02:58am

re: #221 zombie


"Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

"

Uh uh uh uh .. not so fast .. "The Senate is Not For Sale" is funny!

254 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:04am

re: #221 zombie

Sigh....I'm not really going to make bumper stickers.

Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

I'm sorry. I guess it's that I can't totally envision people like Nirthers jumping on the impeachment bandwagon.

255 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:06am

humorous piffle about impeachment is irony lost to the Left...someone will no doubt file a friggin lawsuit

256 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:24am

Meanwhile, take a look around, the MSM isn't exactly beating the drums for this story. If this was the other way around we would have "stunning new revelations" daily. I think the plan is to make Blago a crazy crook and walk away.

257 Steffan  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:41am

re: #74 itellu3times

Well, hmm, exactly what is the wording of the statute that would be violated in this case? Generic bribery, I assume. Must actually be laws to that effect, but presuming that this has not yet taken place, it would have to be conspiracy to violate these other laws, but even conspiracy requires specific acts and states of mind. Without doubting the alleged events actually took place, I still wonder if any of it is provable in a court of law.

This prosecutor is the same Patrick Fitzgerald who railroaded Scooter Libby, right? Is this his make-good?

You can find it in 18 USC Chapter 11.

It covers bribery, graft, and conflicts of interest.

Sec. 211. Acceptance or solicitation to obtain appointive public
office

-STATUTE-
Whoever solicits or receives, either as a political contribution,
or for personal emolument, any money or thing of value, in
consideration of the promise of support or use of influence in
obtaining for any person any appointive office or place under the
United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than one year, or both.
Whoever solicits or receives any thing of value in consideration
of aiding a person to obtain employment under the United States
either by referring his name to an executive department or agency
of the United States or by requiring the payment of a fee because
such person has secured such employment shall be fined under this
title, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both. This section
shall not apply to such services rendered by an employment agency
pursuant to the written request of an executive department or
agency of the United States.

258 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:48am

Bottom line: Obama has either stepped in some shit, or very nearly stepped in some shit, AND, people close to him are caught on tape saying and doing despicable things.

Nothing new here, move along.

259 Dianna  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:49am

re: #247 Earick

Oh, hell! I think I'll do a shot every time the msm defends the BigO!

Now that will get me through the next four years!

But what of your liver? That's going to an awful lot of shots!

260 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:03:50am

A question for web design nerds:

Is it better to use a cookie-cutter PHP template engine like Smarty or ETS, or to make your own?

261 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:07am

re: #235 Charles

Not that slick. He said both "we" and "I".

He corrected the "we" by substituting "I".
Why would he do that unless he knew that his people had discussed it with Blago, and so he was desperately trying to preserve some deniability?

262 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:26am

re: #235 Charles

Not that slick. He said both "we" and "I".

That was odd - I look for the 'qualifier' each time.

263 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:34am

re: #201 wahabicorridor

HOLA alegrias!

Ok, now Cognito has me thinking. To me, it's fairly clear that Obama wasn't going to pay to play. It's been known since 2006, I believe that the Blog was under investigation. What if Emmanual is not worried about the Senate seat scam, but about something else?

* * *
Rahm Emanuel survived all the Clinton scandals when he was a young man on the make, only to be felled by Chicago Obama scandals on the eve of his highest victory, now that he's a rich millionaire with something to lose!

Oddly enough, Emanuel made $16 million in two years, after leaving the Clinton administration. You bet he has something to lose.

264 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:36am

re: #256 SurferDoc

Meanwhile, take a look around, the MSM isn't exactly beating the drums for this story. If this was the other way around we would have "stunning new revelations" daily. I think the plan is to make Blago a crazy crook and walk away.

agree with that.....

265 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:42am

re: #254 Sharmuta

I'm sorry. I guess it's that I can't totally envision people like Nirthers jumping on the impeachment bandwagon.

Did anyone else notice that the Nirth Certifikit story made the front cover of Globe magazine? Now that it's in the tabloids, do you think the nirthers will take our word for it when we tell them how nutty they sound?

266 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:43am

re: #235 Charles

Not that slick. He said both "we" and "I".

It's unethical to not be forthcoming with what people are obviously asking.
It is an absence of candor:

: unreserved, honest, or sincere expression : forthrightness
267 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:04:56am

re: #251 Dr. Shalit

Walter -

Agreed - there is something off-putting about the comments from Obama and Co. Were it I, and I was clean, I would be bragging about it unless there were substantive reasons not to.

-S-

But, I will say, it's because of Obama's past record of friends and careful statements that make one suspect of "this" statement, even if he was following the wishes of law enforcement.

It's a dual edge sword, but until I have the facts, I can't begin to accuse him of anything.

268 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:02am

re: #252 Ojoe

The O cannot detect evil.

In the same way that water cannot detect its own wetness.

269 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:14am

The difference, folks, is that the left was deadly deadly serious about wanting Bush impeached. They even held mock impeachment trials, if you remember. Kucinich introduced articles of impeachment and got 37 votes in the House for it. Thousands of articles and essays on the topic were published, marches organized, etc. etc. Millions of people were deeply emotionally and financially invested in the "Impeach Bush" movement.

I, on the other hand, made a joke in a blog's comment section.

These two are not the same.

270 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:20am

re: #250 Walter L. Newton

Correct. But that is why I am asking the question. At this point we have no more facts to know if it is an either/or comment.

Exactly, Walter. I think it's a dangerous game, trying to pin something to Obama -- especially in light of Blagojevich's wiretapped comments -- with no real knowledge of what happened.

A recipe for egg on face.

271 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:25am

Well, my apologies, the pie didnt turn out as good as I hoped, but here is the
picture, anyway.

272 Semi Cartman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:33am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

After all , the feds already said, in public, that the Obama people are not under any criminal investigation.


Did they say that? Or did they say something like 'Not the target of this investigation'? If so then everyone is invited to the party, sooner or later. Federal investigators have a habit of using clintonic language too. You get used to it in Illinois, where even the baggers at Jewel went to law school.

273 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:34am

re: #4 zombie

Time to start the "O-mpeach" movement.

The Ironic thing about this is that we won't have to start it. Some crazy, probably a code pinker or some such like, will have them made up shortly after inauguration day when The One fails to be the embodiment of their unrealistic hopes and desires.

The wackos on the fringe left eat their own.

274 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:46am
275 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:05:56am

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

Well, Charles, I have to ask you opinion on this (which I just posted)...

What if the feds asked the dude to keep his mouth shut? Obama's comments looked to be carefully parsed. Maybe he was doing something helpful?

Then why wouldn't they say: We've been asked by Team Fitzgerald to not go into that.

276 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:06:34am

re: #221 zombie

Sigh....I'm not really going to make bumper stickers.

Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.

I got it. I was trying to do the same thing. You did it better, but some didn't get the humor.

277 unclassifiable  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:06:43am

You know O will beat this, but won't it be rich to see if there are any turncoat electors when the official electoral college votes on Monday?

278 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:06:57am

re: #271 Wishing

Well, my apologies, the pie didnt turn out as good as I hoped, but here is the
picture, anyway.

Wishing ...some of the most delicious things don't always look so great (but I think it looks just fine) ... I am sure it will be a big hit at the party ...I love blackberries ...

279 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:00am

Looks like another high powered Dem contributor goes down in flames:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Funny, many of these people seem to like to make their money 'the old fashioned way'- via fraud and deception, rather than producing something with tangible value to the economy and society.
Go figure...

280 zombie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:01am

re: #273 Syrah

The Ironic thing about this is that we won't have to start it. Some crazy, probably a code pinker or some such like, will have them made up shortly after inauguration day when The One fails to be the embodiment of their unrealistic hopes and desires.

The wackos on the fringe left eat their own.

BINGO!

I won't even need to make the bumper stickers. The Left will make them for me.

I already hear the rumblings around here.

281 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:32am

re: #228 Sharmuta

My point is this will fuel the crazies like the Nirthers.

it may be futile to understand this...unstoppable...no one will listen if they dont want to....

282 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:34am

I'm going to sit tight and let the Progressives eat the O. More fun to watch that.

283 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:36am
284 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:47am

re: #228 Sharmuta

My point is this will fuel the crazies like the Nirthers.

They don't need us for fuel, they are stocked up for at least 4 years.

285 Karridine  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:50am

re: #253 Daisy

"Looks like today is not my day for successful humor.
"

Uh uh uh uh .. not so fast .. "The Senate is Not For Sale" is funny!


*shout from heckler in audience* Senators are prostitutes!

Senator at the mike: "I didn't hear that!"

*Heckler* Senators go down for the highest bidder!

Senator at the mike: "I heard THAT! How much are you offering?"

286 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:51am

re: #271 Wishing

Well, my apologies, the pie didnt turn out as good as I hoped, but here is the
picture, anyway.

Be careful...is that a cross I see on your pie. The ACLU is watching.....
;)

287 Dianna  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:07:57am

re: #270 Cognito

While you are quite correct, the way Obama handled the question read like a lie to me.

I can't get over my sheer irritation.

288 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:08:01am

re: #278 JacksonTn

Wishing ...some of the most delicious things don't always look so great (but I think it looks just fine) ... I am sure it will be a big hit at the party ...I love blackberries ...

Blackberry pie is just the best! Add some vanilla ice cream, and you can forget the rest of the meal!

289 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:08:18am

re: #252 Ojoe

The O cannot detect evil.

and he is going to be potus.

290 wahabicorridor  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:08:41am

re: #263 alegrias

Well, I think it's way too early to consider Emmanual 'felled' - but I do understand your point.

gotta hop - time to feed The Fat Beagle

291 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:08:41am

re: #270 Cognito

Exactly, Walter. I think it's a dangerous game, trying to pin something to Obama -- especially in light of Blagojevich's wiretapped comments -- with no real knowledge of what happened.

A recipe for egg on face.

Oh, my. Too dangerous to even contemplate!

/

292 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:08:44am

re: #270 Cognito

Exactly, Walter. I think it's a dangerous game, trying to pin something to Obama -- especially in light of Blagojevich's wiretapped comments -- with no real knowledge of what happened.

A recipe for egg on face.

Shit, for once we agree. Someone help me. Charles, delete this comment by Cognito. I don't want this coming back and haunting me.

/:)

293 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:15am

re: #286 LGoPs

Be careful...is that a cross I see on your pie. The ACLU is watching.....
;)

LOLOL that is an X!

294 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:33am

re: #280 zombie

BINGO!

I won't even need to make the bumper stickers. The Left will make them for me.

I already hear the rumblings around here.

It won't be long until those who just like to whine and bitch will start up again. The left has no problem eating their own. They have nothing else to live for.

295 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:36am

re: #215 Charles

Yes, he did. This is a denial:

Asked what contact he'd had with the governor's office about his replacement in the Senate, President-elect Obama today said "I had no contact with the governor or his office and so we were not, I was not aware of what was happening."

Obviously, he was responding in the context of the "Senate seat" controversy and referring to himself.

/if you're spinning "we were not" that's pretty thin, it sounds like a royal we slip that he quickly corrected after the comma

296 Picayune  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:40am

re: #67 ploome hineni

Rahm is sliding towards the bus

/look at how Nobama controls BIden.........where IS he? and of course now Rahm is incommunicado


Rahm who?

It's shades of Watergate already, with Rahm going underground, and the Fitz has yet to indict with Grand Jury. If they, O and the Combine, don't cork this quick, well, just imagine the laughs that will abound in these parts when Blago starts singing to the Fitz, for real.

Who did O know and when did he know them will be as important as What did O know and when did he know it! Imagine the number of O Team serious "tight asses" in Chi and DC these days.

Is Plugs reconsidering what his role may eventually be, already! Stay Tuned! The MSM can't hide this one. Bet Rahm has a good idea now of how Rove and Ken Star felt greeting the media at the front or side door of their residence each day. Got to Love it, and the Magic One is not even confirmed by the Electoral College yet. More 2 Come!

297 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:50am

re: #287 Dianna

While you are quite correct, the way Obama handled the question read like a lie to me.

I can't get over my sheer irritation.

I hear you. A lot of people feel irritated by Obama. Unfortunately we can't really move forward on feelings. Better to have facts.

(And I know you know that. Just thinking aloud.)

298 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:55am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

What if the feds were behind it? What if Rahm knew that the feds had wiretaps? What if the feds ask Obama and his camp to keep their mouths shut.

After all , the feds already said, in public, that the Obama people are not under any criminal investigation.

Yep.
But its interesting, isn't it, that B0 lied anyway when asked a dircet question.
He might have said that he can't say anything as its an ongoing investigation.
End of story.

But no - he had to lie. Seems like a reflex action. re: #271 Wishing

Well, my apologies, the pie didnt turn out as good as I hoped, but here is the
picture, anyway.

Looks good to me!

299 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:09:57am

re: #167 Occasional Reader

Um, that was Bush (41)'s call, not Powell's.

* * *
Lo siento mucho Occasional, but it was POWELL who declined to kill Hussein's republican guard on the Highway to Hell.

I blame Powell, who was no Petraeus.

300 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:10:31am

re: #269 zombie

The difference, folks, is that the left was deadly deadly serious about wanting Bush impeached. They even held mock impeachment trials, if you remember. Kucinich introduced articles of impeachment and got 37 votes in the House for it. Thousands of articles and essays on the topic were published, marches organized, etc. etc. Millions of people were deeply emotionally and financially invested in the "Impeach Bush" movement.

I, on the other hand, made a joke in a blog's comment section.

These two are not the same.

You tell 'em. I have neighbors who still have their Impeach Bush signs posted at the end of their driveways. Serious Moonbats.

301 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:10:42am

re: #292 Walter L. Newton

Shit, for once we agree. Someone help me. Charles, delete this comment by Cognito. I don't want this coming back and haunting me.

/:)

Walter! Listen very carefully to what I'm saying! *grabs shoulders, starts shaking* We all care about you! Don't slip away!

;)

302 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:10:45am

re: #279 BigMoo

Looks like another high powered Dem contributor goes down in flames:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Funny, many of these people seem to like to make their money 'the old fashioned way'- via fraud and deception, rather than producing something with tangible value to the economy and society.
Go figure...

And FYI, as I mentioned in another thread, his name is pronounced Bernard "made off."

303 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:10:49am

UPDATE:
Oregon bank bomb blast.

Police identify colleagues killed in Woodburn bomb blast

Colleagues today described the two law-enforcement officers killed in Friday's bomb blast here as dedicated professionals and family men.

Senior Trooper William Hakim, a bomb squad technician with the Oregon State Police, and Capt. Tom Tennant of the Woodburn Police Department were killed when a bomb exploded at a West Coast Bank branch.

Woodburn Police Chief Scott Russell remains in critical condition in the intensive care unit at OHSU Hospital. A bank employee suffered non-life threatening injuries.


Prayers for the families and co-workers of those lost protecting all of us.

304 Semi Cartman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:11:01am

re: #190 lifeofthemind

It does not say that you have to be a current government official at the time that you are impeached. In theory anybody at any tie could be brought up on charges.


This sounds like Pre-peachment to me. Untested, but I like it!

305 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:11:07am

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

And FYI, as I mentioned in another thread, his name is pronounced Bernard "made off."

Heh. The irony...

306 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:11:09am

re: #295 Killian Bundy


It all depends on the meaning of the word "is"...

Besides, this is all just a big distraction from the coronation of the 'Messiah'.

307 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:11:10am

re: #298 yma o hyd

Looks good to me!

Thanks yma!

308 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:11:13am

re: #298 yma o hyd

Heh.
Looks like some malfunction in my browser.
Sorry, folks!

309 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:11:52am

re: #271 Wishing

Well, my apologies, the pie didnt turn out as good as I hoped, but here is the
picture, anyway.

the crust looks so nice and flakey. do you use butter or lard.
what kind of pie is it.
btw, i've got the ice cream.
:D

310 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:12:06am

re: #303 jcm

UPDATE:
Oregon bank bomb blast.

Police identify colleagues killed in Woodburn bomb blast


Prayers for the families and co-workers of those lost protecting all of us.

My prayers added.....

311 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:12:25am

re: #249 FrogMarch

He did change the "we" to "I".

/exactly, listen to it, sounds like a quickly corrected royal we slip to me

312 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:12:27am

re: #269 zombie

The difference, folks, is that the left was deadly deadly serious about wanting Bush impeached. They even held mock impeachment trials, if you remember. Kucinich introduced articles of impeachment and got 37 votes in the House for it. Thousands of articles and essays on the topic were published, marches organized, etc. etc. Millions of people were deeply emotionally and financially invested in the "Impeach Bush" movement.

I, on the other hand, made a joke in a blog's comment section.

These two are not the same.

I think Impeach Obama bumperstickers would be hilarious - just to shock the left that anyone would actually be thinking that. Doing it as a joke.

Mr Dt taught a group of special forces right after the election. One of them was black. The discussion inevitably turned to stocking up on guns but especially ammunition on which Obama has previously voted to raise taxes. The black guy was incredulous and asked MR DT privately - "Where are you all getting this that Obama is going to restrict guns and ammunition? How can you believe that?"

He really was in an Obama bubble. So just to pop some bubbles - I like the idea of an impeach Obama bumpersticker - the question is who would risk the car damage?

313 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:12:37am

re: #302 Walter L. Newton


Made-off....How sickly ironic. What cracked me up was that he was released on a $10 million bond-but claims he has nothing. I guess his definition of 'nothing' is a bit different than mine...

314 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:13:08am

re: #126 zombie

What sub-slogan do you prefer for my "O-mpeach" bumperstickers?
(The "O" will be an Obama logo)

"No Liars in the White House"

or

"The Senate Is Not For Sale."

or

"Blah! Go home already."

How about:
What have we done?

315 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:13:19am

re: #310 LGoPs

My prayers added.....


Mine too. Frickin sad.

316 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:13:27am

re: #279 BigMoo

Looks like another high powered Dem contributor goes down in flames:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Funny, many of these people seem to like to make their money 'the old fashioned way'- via fraud and deception, rather than producing something with tangible value to the economy and society.
Go figure...

How do you know he was a dem - I guess if he was a republican - they would have said so.

317 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:13:50am

re: #309 nyc redneck

the crust looks so nice and flakey. do you use butter or lard.
what kind of pie is it.
btw, i've got the ice cream.
:D

NOT LARD! Blecch!
Crisco vegetable shortening, and it is blackberry pie!
I wish I could send you a piece of it, but it is a dedicated pie. LOL

318 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:13:51am

re: #305 gclaghorn

Heh. The irony...

Yes. The first time I read the name this morning, I pronounced it, in my head, "mad off." But a little later this morning, I heard a radio news story about this, and the reporter pronounced it Bernard "made off."

319 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:14:25am

re: #314 NYCHardhat

How about:
What have we done?

"O has to go!"

320 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:14:34am

re: #269 zombie

The difference, folks, is that the left was deadly deadly serious about wanting Bush impeached. They even held mock impeachment trials, if you remember. Kucinich introduced articles of impeachment and got 37 votes in the House for it. Thousands of articles and essays on the topic were published, marches organized, etc. etc. Millions of people were deeply emotionally and financially invested in the "Impeach Bush" movement.

I, on the other hand, made a joke in a blog's comment section.

These two are not the same.

How dare you make a joke on a blog! Guards - seize him... her.. it....
;-)

321 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:14:53am

re: #316 DistantThunder

How do you know he was a dem - I guess if he was a republican - they would have said so.


Quite a ways down into the article he was identified as a 'major democratic contributor' or words to that effect.

322 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:14:54am

re: #319 Racer X

"O has to go!"

O M G

323 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:03am

re: #311 Killian Bundy

/exactly, listen to it, sounds like a quickly corrected royal we slip to me

It's not designed to clarify, but to raise more questions. This is classic obfuscation and it is unethical.

324 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:14am

re: #309 nyc redneck

the crust looks so nice and flakey. do you use butter or lard.
what kind of pie is it.
btw, i've got the ice cream.
:D

Oh - and another btw, speaking of pies and ice cream: ist 'Rahm' the German word for double cream?

325 bosforus  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:28am
Rahm Emanuel Talked with Blagojevich About Obama's Senate Seat

Hence Obama's statement "we had- I had no contact...".

326 Earick  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:36am

"The O has to go!"

I love it!

327 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:49am

re: #311 Killian Bundy

/exactly, listen to it, sounds like a quickly corrected royal we slip to me

Please don't make me listen to it again! Unlike the blind-faith left, I'm not impressed with Obama's rhetorical flourishes.

328 Bloodnok  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:55am

re: #314 NYCHardhat

How about:
What have we done?

What hath fraud wrought?

329 Charles  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:15:57am

re: #295 Killian Bundy

Obviously, he was responding in the context of the "Senate seat" controversy and referring to himself.

/if you're spinning "we were not" that's pretty thin, it sounds like a royal we slip that he quickly corrected after the comma

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

330 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:16:44am

re: #322 NYCHardhat

O M G

"Take Barack Back"

331 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:16:50am

re: #313 BigMoo

Made-off....How sickly ironic. What cracked me up was that he was released on a $10 million bond-but claims he has nothing. I guess his definition of 'nothing' is a bit different than mine...

Different than yours, mine and a shit load of other Americans. I'm telling you, we have a ruling plutocracy in this county. I'm hands down sure of that.

332 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:16:52am

re: #328 Bloodnok

What hath fraud wrought?

I like it alot!

333 Karridine  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:16:54am

re: #296 Picayune

Obama and Friends can work with sociopaths, make deals, get action and 'make things happen', BUT when reality (The Feds with court orders) start squeezing them, those very same sociopaths will SQUEAL LIKE PIGS for their own benefit.

It is WHO THEY ARE! They have no conscience to inhibit their blatant backstabbing! Loyalty? Blago is loyal to BLAGO! He's ANGRY at Obama!

334 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:16:54am

re: #323 DistantThunder

It's not designed to clarify, but to raise more questions. This is classic obfuscation and it is unethical.

indeed.

335 gclaghorn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:16:56am

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

Yes. The first time I read the name this morning, I pronounced it, in my head, "mad off." But a little later this morning, I heard a radio news story about this, and the reporter pronounced it Bernard "made off."

Same!

336 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:17:08am

re: #314 NYCHardhat
LOL! LOVE IT!

337 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:17:10am

re: #57 Cognito

In any case, it seems -- from the Blagojevich tapes -- that Obama or his 'people' didn't actually take part in any sort of auction. It seems strange to me -- strange to the point of unlikelihood -- that they would

1) Know about the Great Senate Seat Auction, yet

2) Not partake in it, yet

3) Not report it to the authorities.

Without some other yet-unknown variable, those circumstances are so contradictory as to not make sense. We'll see what comes out, though


If Rahm Emanuel is on wiretap tapes, it boils down to two possibilities:

1) He knew he was being taped.

2) He didn't know he was being taped.

Rahm Emanuel doesn't strike me as the kind of person foolish enough to tempt fate by having a phone conversation that he knew was being taped. If he did have a conversation knowing he was being taped, he would certainly have chosen his words with exquisite care.

If he didn't know he was being taped, and he (in the normal course of delivering the wish list of the man about to be elected President and leader of the Democrat Party) heard a hint, request or demand for compensation from the other party in the conversation, why would he want to open a can of worms by turning around and telling the authorities right after that phone call? After the story broke and he realized he was likely on tape, then yes, I'd expect he'd contact the investigators to give the correct context (i.e., spin) to what they heard on the tapes.

The most likely reaction from Emanuel to that request would be, "You know you're not getting a quid pro quo for this appointment, and you're going to do what the President-Elect wants. You'd be a fool not to, because we could make the rest of your term very unpleasant." Emanuel likes to make things unpleasant for people who don't go along with his political objectives.

The question to be answered is whether Emanuel tacked onto the end, "Just do what the President-Elect wants, and eventually you'll be very pleased with his expression of gratitude for your cooperation." Not an offer of a quid pro quo -- only an assurance of a reciprocal boon, freely given.

338 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:17:22am

re: #330 Racer X

"Take Barack Back"

Please arrest this Hussein.

339 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:17:32am

re: #326 Earick

"The O has to go!"

I love it!

O-Nadda!

340 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:17:50am

So...I guess the "Messiah's" honeymoon period didn't even make it to the inauguration ?
How delicious.
And sad.

341 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:17:52am

re: #330 Racer X

"Take Barack Back"

Obama-Return to sender!

342 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:18:08am

re: #329 Charles

I couldn't agree more!

343 jwb7605  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:18:24am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

Whitewater and Jennifer Flowers, in my opinion.
People (and the press) were impressed at the ease and art of the spin.

344 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:18:45am

re: #314 NYCHardhat

How about:
What have we done?

Don't Blame Me - I voted for Ron Paul! ahhahahahahahahaha

345 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:18:57am

re: #317 Wishing

NOT LARD! Blecch!
Crisco vegetable shortening, and it is blackberry pie!
I wish I could send you a piece of it, but it is a dedicated pie. LOL

my gramma always used lard. the best is goose fat. especially cooked out of a seasoned goose and used for a savory pie.
i always use butter.
blackberry is my favorite pie, along w/ apple, peach, plum, cherry, pecan, and i'll just stop there.
enjoy it. somebody is lucky. a homemade pie is a special gift.
oh, i forgot rhubarb. love that too.

346 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:18:59am

re: #340 BigMoo

So...I guess the "Messiah's" honeymoon period didn't even make it to the inauguration ?
How delicious.
And sad.

And disgusting.

347 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:19:07am

O-Noez!

348 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:19:07am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

I'd hold fire, there, for the moment. There are still many possibilities, and there's nothing to lose by waiting to hear what the federal investigators have to say.

Patience pays.

349 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:19:11am
350 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:01am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

What do you mean by the bold italic word?

351 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:14am

re: #331 Walter L. Newton

Different than yours, mine and a shit load of other Americans. I'm telling you, we have a ruling plutocracy in this county. I'm hands down sure of that.


I'm starting to believe you're right-And it starts and could be stopped right in Washington DC. These people have created perks and perpetual prosperity for themselves that would cause a Politburo Leader to blush.

352 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:15am

re: #319 Racer X

"O has to go!"

"O has to go!"

353 rollingdivision  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:17am

re: #337 stuiec

Agreed there is no way he would participate if he knew he was being taped.

354 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:30am

re: #349 ploome hineni

These people think they are beyond the law

Absotively!

355 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:40am

re: #344 debutaunt

Don't Blame Me - I voted for Ron Paul! ahhahahahahahahaha

I love it. Don't blame me, I'm batshit and voted for Ron Paul.

356 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:50am

re: #351 BigMoo

I'm starting to believe you're right-And it starts and could be stopped right in Washington DC. These people have created perks and perpetual prosperity for themselves that would cause a Politburo Leader to blush.

... or go green with envy!

357 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:20:56am

re: #346 Daisy

Copy that !

358 Bobibutu  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:21:01am

re: #8 rightymouse

I see that Chez Mousey needs more popcorn. This is shaking out to be quite a mess for "O".

Good afternoon RM

If he can screw something this simple up - the mind boggles at what future worldwide possibilities await us.

Might want to tighten up on your seatbelt.

359 MSMediacritic  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:21:04am

A couple of years ago, some libtards around here started putting "I'm changing the environment! Ask me how!" bumper stickers on SUV's. The local paper made them out to be heroes.

I think we should do the same with "Impeach Obama" stickers on Prius's. That way... we wouldn't have to risk any car damage. To our cars, anyway. :)

360 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:21:22am

re: #329 Charles

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

Well, we've known for some time now that Obama is a weasel with a truth deficit. I guess my point is, he's not going to get so much as a scratch from this.

/if Emanuel ends up under the bus, fine with me, the guy's a real jerk

361 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:21:28am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

We shouldn't need magic decoder rings to figure out what Obama is trying to say. It's shady - because he is shading his words. Get it? It is unethical, because his goal is not to help us understand what really happened, but rather to protect himself and his team. If that isn't obvious, well.......

Would you do business with Obama? Would you make him the trustee of your children's estate? I absolutely would not. He's failed test after test of character as far as I'm concerned.

362 Charles  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:21:39am

re: #348 Cognito

I'd hold fire, there, for the moment. There are still many possibilities, and there's nothing to lose by waiting to hear what the federal investigators have to say.

Patience pays.

Look, I have not said Obama is guilty of anything -- except lying, and that seems dead obvious to me. What I take away from his weasel words is that he almost certainly knew that discussions had taken place, and was doing everything he could to avoid admitting it.

363 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:22:00am

Shamelessly projecting/hoping - So, if Emmanuel takes the hit for this, does that mean our youth will not be forcibly conscripted as Community Organizers? Or will that be Bill Ayer's point of entry?

364 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:22:08am

re: #303 jcm

Isn't this the kind of "destruction of property" attack that William Ayers said was innocent protest and not harmful to humans?

365 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:22:16am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

Declarative sentences.

366 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:22:30am

I'm withholding judgment until Ron Howard makes the movie, "Fitzgerald/Obama"! That's the only leftist movie for which I'm dropping a dime.

"All Obama's Men" would be another great movie Woodward & Bernstein won't touch with a ten-foot pole. Because Obama was "All The Media's President."

Yeah, I know, don't hold my breath. But all thishigh crimes talk is making me nostalgic for Nixon's clumsy Cuban plumbers.

367 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:22:32am

dems are famous for parsing the meaning of "is".

368 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:22:57am

re: #367 nyc redneck

dems are famous for parsing the meaning of "is".

See 350.

369 jcm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:23:04am

re: #350 NYCHardhat

What do you mean by the bold italic word?

Depends on what you mean by bold italic word.

370 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:23:25am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

It started with Clinton.....people thought it was cute to dissect what 'is' meant..........I would've slapped him and sent him off to the corner for a goddammed time-out.
Harumph.

371 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:23:32am

re: #356 yma o hyd

... or go green with envy!


I recall an old Eddie Murphy movie called 'The Distinguished Gentleman'- not a great movie, but an excellent representation of what DC and our Congress must be like.

372 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:23:37am

re: #362 Charles

Look, I have not said Obama is guilty of anything -- except lying, and that seems dead obvious to me. What I take away from his weasel words is that he almost certainly knew that discussions had taken place, and was doing everything he could to avoid admitting it.

Is it possible O, and Emanuel, was cooperating with the Feds?

373 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:24:21am

re: #360 Killian Bundy

Hey, man, hold on. I used to have a pet weasel. I know weasels. Obama is no weasel. Lying rat-bastard is more like it.

And I agree nothing is going to come of this. If Obama murdered someone on the Capitol steps in front of hundreds of witnesses something might be done. But probabaly not.

374 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:24:27am

re: #366 alegrias

I'm withholding judgment until Ron Howard makes the movie, "Fitzgerald/Obama"! That's the only leftist movie for which I'm dropping a dime.

"All Obama's Men" would be another great movie Woodward & Bernstein won't touch with a ten-foot pole. Because Obama was "All The Media's President."

Yeah, I know, don't hold my breath. But all thishigh crimes talk is making me nostalgic for Nixon's clumsy Cuban plumbers.

"Few Good Men"

375 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:24:46am
376 NYCHardhat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:24:47am

Has this ever happened before? The president elect involved in scandals before he took office.

377 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:24:50am

re: #351 BigMoo

I'm starting to believe you're right-And it starts and could be stopped right in Washington DC. These people have created perks and perpetual prosperity for themselves that would cause a Politburo Leader to blush.

My problem is I don't believe it can be stopped in DC. No one makes it to DC unless they are going to be of some use to the plutocracy. It doesn't matter who we vote in, they are going to be part of the problem or else they won't make it one term in DC. I've said this numerous times here...

There will be a civil was in the United States with in 20 years.

Much of what has been happening in DC over the last 6 months is a prime example of the control the plutocracy has over this country.

Just get out a calculator, do the math, look at your finances, who is the final winner? No you.

378 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:24:58am

re: #369 jcm

Depends on what you mean by bold italic word.

LOL - these are the "good" old days.

379 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:25:03am

re: #372 Racer X

Is it possible O, and Emanuel, was cooperating with the Feds?

I think that they were strongly advised that it would be in their interest to do so. After the fact.

380 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:25:06am

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

When Clinton said, "I didn't inhale," that was the deal-breaker for me and the start of my Damascene conversion to conservatism. It was a simple question and the guy couldn't simply own up. We're seeing a lot of that in the incoming Obama Administration already.

I am not sure that lawyers make the best Presidents -- not anytime post-Lincoln, anyway.

381 rollingdivision  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:25:17am

re: #376 NYCHardhat

It is a change.

382 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:25:34am

re: #296 Picayune

Rahm who?

It's shades of Watergate already, with Rahm going underground, and the Fitz has yet to indict with Grand Jury. If they, O and the Combine, don't cork this quick, well, just imagine the laughs that will abound in these parts when Blago starts singing to the Fitz, for real.

Who did O know and when did he know them will be as important as What did O know and when did he know it! Imagine the number of O Team serious "tight asses" in Chi and DC these days.

Is Plugs reconsidering what his role may eventually be, already! Stay Tuned! The MSM can't hide this one. Bet Rahm has a good idea now of how Rove and Ken Star felt greeting the media at the front or side door of their residence each day. Got to Love it, and the Magic One is not even confirmed by the Electoral College yet. More 2 Come!

"Pic" -

Seems the real question regarding Former US Senator Obama is -

"WHAT DIDN'T HE KNOW and WHEN DIDN'T HE KNOW IT?"

That is all.

-S-

383 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:25:53am

re: #360 Killian Bundy

I guess my point is, he's not going to get so much as a scratch from this.

/unless, of course, he doesn't produce the information regarding staff contacts that he said he was gathering and would release "in a few days", that could leave a mark

384 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:13am

re: #362 Charles

Look, I have not said Obama is guilty of anything -- except lying, and that seems dead obvious to me. What I take away from his weasel words is that he almost certainly knew that discussions had taken place, and was doing everything he could to avoid admitting it.

Obama has no credibility with me and never has:
1) His fishy house deal and relationship with Rezko
2) He attended the same "Church" for 20 years and " Knew Nothing"
3) Was best friends with a radical Palestinian But " Knew Nothing"
4) Is the only honest Politician in Chicago?

Maybe it's only me but doesn't anyone else see a pattern here?

385 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:20am

re: #358 Bobibutu

Good afternoon RM

If he can screw something this simple up - the mind boggles at what future worldwide possibilities await us.

Might want to tighten up on your seatbelt.

Afternoon!

Yes - the worldwide possibilities boggle my mind too.

I figure it won't take long before the scales drop from the saner moonbats. World peace and love, indeed. He's going to need to handle the Chicago sharks properly before he can ever go on to deal with people even nuttier and more corrupt than they are or could ever dream of becoming.

386 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:33am

re: #372 Racer X

Is it possible O, and Emanuel, was cooperating with the Feds?

If they were, what is wrong with saying that its an ongoing investigation and he can't say anything?
I mean - he's lawyer, ffs, he should know that phrase!

387 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:35am

re: #349 ploome hineni

Blog knew he ws being wiretapped, and that didn't stop him from talking freely and felling invulnerable

these people think they are beyond the law

i bet he knew he was going down and he was trying to bring others down w/ him. that's why he kept talking freely.
he called the O a mtherfcker. there is no honor among thieves.
blago is a maniac.

388 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:42am

re: #362 Charles

Look, I have not said Obama is guilty of anything -- except lying, and that seems dead obvious to me. What I take away from his weasel words is that he almost certainly knew that discussions had taken place, and was doing everything he could to avoid admitting it.

It's not dead obvious. Nothing is obvious yet.

There are so many unknown factors that the odds of accidentally describing the true scenario are astronomically bad.

When, for instance, did Emanuel speak with Blagojevich? I believe it was November 4, which was before Obama selected him to join the team; it's entirely possible that Emanuel was jockeying for that spot by reaching out to Blagojevich and proposing a list of candidates he felt Obama would find "acceptable."

And so forth, forever and ever. There's no motivation to jump ahead of the facts here, and every motivation to wait and hear what they are.

389 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:48am

re: #375 ploome hineni

no way

Really? No possible way? And now he is just trying to hold on to some of the supporters he just back stabbed?

390 Daisy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:56am

re: #382 Dr. Shalit

"Pic" -

Seems the real question regarding Former US Senator Obama is -

"WHAT DIDN'T HE KNOW and WHEN DIDN'T HE KNOW IT?"

That is all.

-S-

Bumpersticker/rotating title nomination.

391 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:26:57am

re: #380 stuiec

own up?...OWN UP?...how quaint

392 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:27:06am

re: #359 MSMediacritic

A couple of years ago, some libtards around here started putting "I'm changing the environment! Ask me how!" bumper stickers on SUV's. The local paper made them out to be heroes.

I think we should do the same with "Impeach Obama" stickers on Prius's. That way... we wouldn't have to risk any car damage. To our cars, anyway. :)

You sound just like the MSM your screen name claims to criticize.

393 Karridine  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:27:22am

re: #341 jcm

Obama-Return to sender!

Barak, back! Screw it again, wheels turning round and round!

or

/ '...no black cards can make you money
So you hide them when you're able
In the land of milk and honey
You must put them on the table...'

Let's see how Obama plays his cards, JCM...

394 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:27:51am

re: #386 yma o hyd

If they were, what is wrong with saying that its an ongoing investigation and he can't say anything?
I mean - he's lawyer, ffs, he should know that phrase!

Ahhh.. excellent point.

395 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:28:41am

re: #349 ploome hineni

Blog knew he ws being wiretapped, and that didn't stop him from talking freely and felling invulnerable

these people think they are beyond the law

* * *
These people think they are the law! Supposedly that's a line in Ron Howard's new movie, attributed to that Chicago-lite politician, President Nixon.

396 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:28:43am

re: #370 LGoPs

It started with Clinton.....people thought it was cute to dissect what 'is' meant..........I would've slapped him and sent him off to the corner for a goddammed time-out.
Harumph.

I think Obama and Clinton both have only child syndrome. They grew up in households where they didn't have an older sibling that said - "Do that again - and I'll beat you." I watch how my kids keep each other honest - and refuse to cooperate with those that stretch the truth. It takes a healthy family to raise a moral child - there are rare exceptions. I think Obama and Clinton both had very dysfunctional families.

397 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:28:54am

re: #386 yma o hyd

If they were, what is wrong with saying that its an ongoing investigation and he can't say anything?
I mean - he's lawyer, ffs, he should know that phrase!

I thought he was a community organizer?

398 jcbunga  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:28:54am

...and so let us all remember the wisdom of Jimmy Carter, who said in his inaugural address:

"You have given me a great responsibility—to stay close to you, to be worthy of you, and to exemplify what you are. Let us create together a new national spirit of unity and trust. Your strength can compensate for my weakness, and your wisdom can help to minimize my mistakes."

Eeeewyucch!

399 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:29:34am

re: #380 stuiec

When Clinton said, "I didn't inhale," that was the deal-breaker for me and the start of my Damascene conversion to conservatism. It was a simple question and the guy couldn't simply own up. We're seeing a lot of that in the incoming Obama Administration already.

I am not sure that lawyers make the best Presidents -- not anytime post-Lincoln, anyway.

And the press all laughed along with his joke - no outrage.

400 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:29:35am

re: #349 ploome hineni

Blog knew he ws being wiretapped, and that didn't stop him from talking freely and felling invulnerable

these people think they are beyond the law

I give Rahm Emanuel credit for more intelligence and cunning than Blago.

If Emanuel knew Blago was being wiretapped, he would know that anything sounding remotely like a bribe would be poisonous. So he might make a phone call to tell Blago who Obama approved for the Senate seat even knowing it was being taped, but he would be sure to keep his end of the conversation squeaky-clean.

401 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:29:38am

re: #377 Walter L. Newton

My problem is I don't believe it can be stopped in DC. No one makes it to DC unless they are going to be of some use to the plutocracy. It doesn't matter who we vote in, they are going to be part of the problem or else they won't make it one term in DC. I've said this numerous times here...

There will be a civil was in the United States with in 20 years.

Much of what has been happening in DC over the last 6 months is a prime example of the control the plutocracy has over this country.

Just get out a calculator, do the math, look at your finances, who is the final winner? No you.

Sadly, I may in my 'Scooter store scooter" by then (paid for by the taxpayers BTW)-but I'll strap an AR to it and get engaged-lol

But seriously, when an electorate has an 8% approval rating for a group of officials-and they continue to go down a path against the wishes of the electorate..what's a person to do ? Thomas Jefferson
knew...

402 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:29:45am

re: #384 Nevergiveup

Obama has no credibility with me and never has:
1) His fishy house deal and relationship with Rezko
2) He attended the same "Church" for 20 years and " Knew Nothing"
3) Was best friends with a radical Palestinian But " Knew Nothing"
4) Is the only honest Politician in Chicago?

Maybe it's only me but doesn't anyone else see a pattern here?

Sure, I said it above. His credibility is certainly shaky, through years of relationships and "knowing nothing."

It still doesn't condone random bouts of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

403 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:30:10am

re: #397 Nevergiveup

I thought he was a community organizer?

He studied community organising at Harvard Law?


///

404 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:30:51am

re: #374 Racer X

"Very Damn Few Good Men"

405 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:30:51am

"prior to" November 4, that should have said.

406 Nevergiveup  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:31:04am

re: #402 Walter L. Newton

Sure, I said it above. His credibility is certainly shaky, through years of relationships and "knowing nothing."

It still doesn't condone random bouts of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Yeah, but from I see here most people are just letting off steam and having a little fun. Not serious ODS.

407 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:31:09am

re: #362 Charles

Look, I have not said Obama is guilty of anything -- except lying, and that seems dead obvious to me. What I take away from his weasel words is that he almost certainly knew that discussions had taken place, and was doing everything he could to avoid admitting it.

* * *
Charles, of course Obama "knew that discussions had taken place" --like those horrid vile "sermons" uttered by his pastor Rev. Wright and captured on videos sale, for twenty years, and Obama managed to avoid admitting it very well.

408 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:31:14am

re: #380 stuiec


I am not sure that lawyers make the best Presidents -- not anytime post-Lincoln, anyway.

I respectfully mean no offense to any lizard lawyers but I think that by training lawyers are disposed to dissection of the language. I think it's the essence of their business and as such, clarity should not be expected from them.

409 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:31:24am

re: #401 BigMoo

Sadly, I may in my 'Scooter store scooter" by then (paid for by the taxpayers BTW)-but I'll strap an AR to it and get engaged-lol

But seriously, when an electorate has an 8% approval rating for a group of officials-and they continue to go down a path against the wishes of the electorate..what's a person to do ? Thomas Jefferson
knew...

What's an AR?

410 Karridine  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:31:42am

re: #366 alegrias


Yeah, I know, don't hold my breath. But all thishigh crimes talk is making me nostalgic for Nixon's clumsy Cuban plumbers.

And remember, Nixon's man DID TIME IN PRISON rather than sell Nixon to the Feds!

411 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:31:44am
412 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:32:12am

re: #400 stuiec

I give Rahm Emanuel credit for more intelligence and cunning than Blago.

The one thing that seems proven beyond all question, so far, is the perfect idiocy of Rod Blagojevich.

413 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:32:22am

re: #407 alegrias

* * *
Charles, of course Obama "knew that discussions had taken place" --like those horrid vile "sermons" uttered by his pastor Rev. Wright and captured on videos sale, for twenty years, and Obama managed to avoid admitting it very well.

I think one of the things he studied at Harvard must have been 'Plausible Deniability and how to apply it' ...

414 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:32:47am

re: #384 Nevergiveup

Obama has no credibility with me and never has:
1) His fishy house deal and relationship with Rezko
2) He attended the same "Church" for 20 years and " Knew Nothing"
3) Was best friends with a radical Palestinian But " Knew Nothing"
4) Is the only honest Politician in Chicago?

Maybe it's only me but doesn't anyone else see a pattern here?

No, nothing to see here....move along.
/

415 JacksonTn  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:32:48am

re: #406 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but from I see here most people are just letting off steam and having a little fun. Not serious ODS.

My name is JacksonTN and I have ODS-lite ...

/half

416 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:32:49am

re: #406 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but from I see here most people are just letting off steam and having a little fun. Not serious ODS.

Then let's make it clear. How many Lizards think Obama should be impeached? And I am asking in all seriousness.

417 poopeedoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:32:55am

re: #45 Dustyvet

Quit that, Pugsly had is classless...

Fixed it for ya. :)

418 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:33:26am

re: #406 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but from I see here most people are just letting off steam and having a little fun. Not serious ODS.

speaking for myself I'm dangerously close to stepping off the edge...but remembering what Charles just posted I might call it OPS

419 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:33:26am

re: #409 Walter L. Newton

Civilian version of an M4 carbine.

420 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:33:33am

re: #411 ploome hineni

lol, Cognito

you just need fact, real facts

/circumstantial evidence is much stronger than eyewitness accounts

I'm not sure what "circumstantial evidence" you're talking about. But I'm talking about federal wiretap tapes.

421 jcbunga  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:33:50am

...off to the airport...another planeload of troops is coming home.

Wherever you are spare a moment of your Saturday to say well-done. :)

422 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:34:05am

Holiday Music on Pandora

Listening to "Swingin' Christmas".

Nice!

423 poopeedoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:34:12am

re: #82 LGoPs

No, just add another C.........C2B2HO

Sounds like a chemical compound.

424 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:34:21am

re: #419 BigMoo

Civilian version of an M4 carbine.

Thanks.

425 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:34:29am
426 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:26am

re: #424 Walter L. Newton

Thanks.

save yer money Walter, you're gonna want one in about twenty years

427 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:26am

re: #391 albusteve

own up?...OWN UP?...how quaint

When I applied for my security clearance, they asked about drug use. I, of course, checked the "yes" box.

I'd been awaiting my final clearance for a couple of weeks when the guy from DISCO (Defense Industrial Security Clearance Organization) came to ask me to clarify my answer. I told him truthfully that I inhaled several times in high school and in college, but stopped when I went to work for the company because of its zero-tolerance policy toward illegal drug use. No problem, got my clearance fine.

Fifteen years later, a man is running for President, gets the same simple question and has to build an edifice of obfuscation so that he doesn't get cornered into saying, "Yes, I did." I knew this was not someone I could support for President -- and that caused me to question a lot of assumptions about the Democrat Party I'd held all my life.

So yeah, "own up" is quaint, but it accurately describes what I expected and why I was disgusted with what the man said.

And it's starting all over again.

428 Indefatigable  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:28am

The Chicago Political Machine at its finest.

429 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:43am

re: #423 poopeedoo

Sounds like a chemical compound.

No doubt a toxic one........
:)

430 poopeedoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:46am

re: #93 hermit

I kinda like just C2B2....has a nice ring.

Sounds like a Star Wars figure. :)

431 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:48am

re: #396 DistantThunder

I think Obama and Clinton both have only child syndrome. They grew up in households where they didn't have an older sibling that said - "Do that again - and I'll beat you." I watch how my kids keep each other honest - and refuse to cooperate with those that stretch the truth. It takes a healthy family to raise a moral child - there are rare exceptions. I think Obama and Clinton both had very dysfunctional families.

They share in common that they were the only child and that their father was absent.

432 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:53am

re: #416 Walter L. Newton

Then let's make it clear. How many Lizards think Obama should be impeached? And I am asking in all seriousness.

/um, you can't impeach a President-Elect

433 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:35:56am

re: #416 Walter L. Newton


I think he has to be investigated. If he was working in collusion with Blago to essentially auction off his Senate Seat he needs to resign. If he won't resign, then he needs to be impeached, and removed from office.

I am fucking tired of watching fucking Democrats walk on serious crimes that Republican would go to jail for.

434 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:36:09am

re: #421 jcbunga

...off to the airport...another planeload of troops is coming home.

Wherever you are spare a moment of your Saturday to say well-done. :)

Thanks for doing that for our troops.
As I'm playing on this board today, I'm trading texts with my son (Lt.)as he heads off on his first deployment to Afghanistan. Said our goodbyes yesterday as he's been 'locked down' till they depart.
I hope he meets people like you along the way...

435 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:36:40am

re: #374 Racer X

"Few Good Men"

* * *
Nice!

What's Hollywood gonna do NOW? I'm shedding a tear for liberal directors--the next four years are gonna be horrible for them without Bush/Cheney to kick around anymore.

Sniff sniff, come back, Cheney! Come back, Shane!

436 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:36:56am

OT...

The Indian navy captured 23 piracy suspects who tried to take over a merchant vessel in the Gulf of Aden near Somalia, Indian officials said. Included in the seized items were seven AK-47 automatic rifles, three other automatic weapons and 13 loaded magazines; a rocket-propelled grenade launcher along with rockets, cartridges and grenades.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

When we captured Germans in WWII, like on French soil, did we refer to them as "Nazi suspects?"

This is so fucked!

437 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:37:03am

re: #399 DistantThunder

And the press all laughed along with his joke - no outrage.

The press was desperate for a Democrat to end the long reign of Republican Presidents and ended up ignoring a lot of red flags about the Democrat candidate so as not to screw up his chances in the general election.

Just like this year.

438 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:37:17am

re: #425 ploome hineni

that is your opinion

The Enforcer

Rahm is not an easy going sweetie

Because Rahm does not have a level head indicates that he's probably going to be a loose cannon for Obama.

He seems awfully thin-skinned.

439 jaunte  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:37:24am

re: #434 BigMoo

Tell him we'll be thinking about him, and thanks.

440 Earick  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:37:28am

Re #416

Of course no one hear thinks bigO should be impeach...yet!

441 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:37:52am

re: #426 albusteve

save yer money Walter, you're gonna want one in about twenty years


They won't be available after Pelosi, Reid and the 'Big O' get a new ban started...Clinton doubled the value of my collection, I figure this crowd is good for another hefty increase-lol.

442 Dianna  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:38:00am

re: #372 Racer X

Is it possible O, and Emanuel, was cooperating with the Feds?

Well, if they weren't before, you can bet they're cooperating now!

443 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:38:34am

re: #432 Killian Bundy

/um, you can't impeach a President-Elect

/don't start with me, I've had your back all morning.

444 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:38:42am
445 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:23am

re: #316 DistantThunder

How do you know he was a dem - I guess if he was a republican - they would have said so.

They would have said so three times in the first two paragraphs.

446 Karridine  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:36am

Ouch!

It's 0240 here in the black, quiet suburbs of Bangkok... the Pukes Against Democracy finally abandoned their stink-in at Government House after stealing as much as they could, and Thaksin spoke with the Democratic Red-Shirts (relatively Good Guys) today so THEY disbanded, hence its waaaaay past my bedtime, and I wish y'all Good Knight!

CUL

447 El Supremo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:38am

Some lizzards here have been making comments about what the meaning of "IS' is. If any of you are in the L.A. area and were listening to Larry Elders last show on 790 AM yesterday, he had a hilarious parody with George Washington explaining to a. lawyer while under oath, as to why he chopped down a cherry tree.

448 jcbunga  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:40am

re: #434 BigMoo

Thanks for doing that for our troops.
As I'm playing on this board today, I'm trading texts with my son (Lt.)as he heads off on his first deployment to Afghanistan. Said our goodbyes yesterday as he's been 'locked down' till they depart.
I hope he meets people like you along the way...

Good luck and God bless your son.

Making some time to meet a plane is truly the VERY least I can do. If anyone is interested, here's the link to the group...very grassroots...just a bunch of families and vets and patriots who want to be there when they set foot back in the good ol' USA:

[Link: www.operationwelcomehomemd.org...]

449 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:41am

re: #439 jaunte

Thanks much. It's his mom and dad's first deployment first-lol.

450 filetandrelease  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:43am

re: #51 vapig

Well, some of us said (mostly tongue in cheek) that we needed a Carter to get a Reagan.

I regret those words said after McCain won the primaries and was thinking on voting for Obama. I didn't.

451 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:39:46am

re: #427 stuiec

When I applied for my security clearance, they asked about drug use. I, of course, checked the "yes" box.

I'd been awaiting my final clearance for a couple of weeks when the guy from DISCO (Defense Industrial Security Clearance Organization) came to ask me to clarify my answer. I told him truthfully that I inhaled several times in high school and in college, but stopped when I went to work for the company because of its zero-tolerance policy toward illegal drug use. No problem, got my clearance fine.

Fifteen years later, a man is running for President, gets the same simple question and has to build an edifice of obfuscation so that he doesn't get cornered into saying, "Yes, I did." I knew this was not someone I could support for President -- and that caused me to question a lot of assumptions about the Democrat Party I'd held all my life.

So yeah, "own up" is quaint, but it accurately describes what I expected and why I was disgusted with what the man said.

And it's starting all over again.

well obviously you're just a regular guy and not presidential material...heh...
and good for you...

452 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:40:01am

re: #396 DistantThunder

I think Obama and Clinton both have only child syndrome. They grew up in households where they didn't have an older sibling that said - "Do that again - and I'll beat you." I watch how my kids keep each other honest - and refuse to cooperate with those that stretch the truth. It takes a healthy family to raise a moral child - there are rare exceptions. I think Obama and Clinton both had very dysfunctional families.

* * *
Hey, no TWINKIE defenses please.

453 Semi Cartman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:40:09am

re: #362 Charles

re: #362 Charles

Look, I have not said Obama is guilty of anything -- except lying, and that seems dead obvious to me. What I take away from his weasel words is that he almost certainly knew that discussions had taken place, and was doing everything he could to avoid admitting it.


There's only one guy I know of who can get away with telling the truth (So we talked? So what? Whaddya want anyway?) and that's Daley himself. And even then it's for local consumption. Obama can never pull it off especially on a national scale, so he wisely doesn't try. Give them what works, namely vague obfuscating clintonism. You can spin that any way you want and still be wrong.

454 Killian Bundy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:40:31am

re: #433 Iron Fist

If he was working in collusion with Blago to essentially auction off his Senate Seat he needs to resign.

/do you really think Obama's that stupid?

455 Cognito  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:40:32am

re: #445 SurferDoc

They would have said so three times in the first two paragraphs.

Er... actually the Wall Street Journal is frequently accused of leaning to the right. It's owned by Murdoch. And it's a good paper.

Don't let your imagination get the best of you.

456 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:40:35am

re: #416 Walter L. Newton

Then let's make it clear. How many Lizards think Obama should be impeached? And I am asking in all seriousness.

No on impeachement. Guaranteed loss for us.

457 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:40:40am

re: #444 ploome hineni

I, for one, hopes Nobama slides him under the bus


The pay-back could be a beeyotch though?

Rahm doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would go quietly into that good night.

458 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:41:23am

re: #455 Cognito

Er... actually the Wall Street Journal is frequently accused of leaning to the right. It's owned by Murdoch. And it's a good paper.

Don't let your imagination get the best of you.

Where is the fun in that?

459 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:41:30am

re: #409 Walter L. Newton

What's an AR?

Walter -

AR is a nickname for the civilian version of the M-16. That is all.

-S-

460 Wishing  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:41:31am

re: #345 nyc redneck

my gramma always used lard. the best is goose fat. especially cooked out of a seasoned goose and used for a savory pie.
i always use butter.
blackberry is my favorite pie, along w/ apple, peach, plum, cherry, pecan, and i'll just stop there.
enjoy it. somebody is lucky. a homemade pie is a special gift.
oh, i forgot rhubarb. love that too.

I thought lard was a descriptor for pork fat?
I never was able to figure out where the shortening was in vegetables, but I use it anyway.

461 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:41:47am

re: #447 El Supremo

Some lizzards here have been making comments about what the meaning of "IS' is. If any of you are in the L.A. area and were listening to Larry Elders last show on 790 AM yesterday, he had a hilarious parody with George Washington explaining to a. lawyer while under oath, as to why he chopped down a cherry tree.

I didn't catch why he's leaving........I'm very disappointed. Loved his show....and books.

462 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:41:52am

re: #441 BigMoo

They won't be available after Pelosi, Reid and the 'Big O' get a new ban started...Clinton doubled the value of my collection, I figure this crowd is good for another hefty increase-lol.

I don't worry about any of this. I'm basically poor. I'm going to be 56 in a few weeks. Obama is going to see to it that I have health care, get my job back as a computer programmer, food on my table, pay my Comcast bill for internet, make sure I have a car that will get 200 miles per whatever, I'm all set. I don't need no weapons.

Except to shoot myself in the head when I see this country go to hell in a handbag. As Glen Beck has said, this country is going to hell in a handbag, the only disagreement is the size of that handbag.

463 Syrah  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:42:45am

re: #457 rightymouse

The pay-back could be a beeyotch though?

Rahm doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would go quietly into that good night.

He won't go down alone.

Blagojevich is to Washington what Madoff is to Wall Street. Bringing it all down.

464 SurferDoc  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:42:45am

re: #456 SurferDoc

No on impeachement. Guaranteed loss for us.

The editorial page is right leaning, the news pages more left, BTW.

465 Dianna  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:42:57am

re: #405 Cognito

"prior to" November 4, that should have said.

And we know this because?

Besides, Rahm Emmanuel had to know he was going to be Obama's chief of staff pretty much before the election.

466 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:43:17am
467 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:43:28am

re: #425 ploome hineni

Rahm is not an easy going sweetie

That's precisely my point. If he got on a phone call with Blago, knowing he was being taped or not, he would be more likely to give Blago orders from the President-Elect than to entertain Blago's demands for compensation. Emanuel doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd take a shakedown demand lightly -- more like he'd use colorful language and word pictures to tell the would-be shaker-downer to put all ideas of a quid pro quo out of his mind.

468 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:43:35am

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

I don't worry about any of this. I'm basically poor. I'm going to be 56 in a few weeks. Obama is going to see to it that I have health care, get my job back as a computer programmer, food on my table, pay my Comcast bill for internet, make sure I have a car that will get 200 miles per whatever, I'm all set. I don't need no weapons.

Except to shoot myself in the head when I see this country go to hell in a handbag. As Glen Beck has said, this country is going to hell in a handbag, the only disagreement is the size of that handbag.

well at least buy a wrist rocket and take a stand!...c'mon!

469 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:43:40am

re: #421 jcbunga

...off to the airport...another planeload of troops is coming home.

Wherever you are spare a moment of your Saturday to say well-done. :)

* * *
Thank you for welcoming the troops home. I offer my Metro seat to anyone in military uniform.

470 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:43:44am

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

I don't worry about any of this. I'm basically poor. I'm going to be 56 in a few weeks. Obama is going to see to it that I have health care, get my job back as a computer programmer, food on my table, pay my Comcast bill for internet, make sure I have a car that will get 200 miles per whatever, I'm all set. I don't need no weapons.

Except to shoot myself in the head when I see this country go to hell in a handbag. As Glen Beck has said, this country is going to hell in a handbag, the only disagreement is the size of that handbag.

Walter -

What about the Designer of the Handbag?

-S-

471 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:44:13am

re: #463 Syrah

He won't go down alone.

Blagojevich is to Washington what Madoff is to Wall Street. Bringing it all down.

Bring it all down with a wrecking ball.........

472 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:44:59am

re: #470 Dr. Shalit

Walter -

What about the Designer of the Handbag?

-S-

The designer is Marx. Didn't you see the gift catalog?

473 debutaunt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:45:13am

re: #407 alegrias

* * *
Charles, of course Obama "knew that discussions had taken place" --like those horrid vile "sermons" uttered by his pastor Rev. Wright and captured on videos sale, for twenty years, and Obama managed to avoid admitting it very well.

An audiologist could help solve this.

474 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:45:36am

re: #455 Cognito

Er... actually the Wall Street Journal is frequently accused of leaning to the right. It's owned by Murdoch. And it's a good paper.

Don't let your imagination get the best of you.

You should read it more often. Only the editorial pages lean right, and these days not nearly as much as in the past. The news pages are as left-orthodox as any other MSM paper. It's quite comical sometimes.

475 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:46:10am
476 Racer X  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:46:18am

re: #447 El Supremo

Some lizzards here have been making comments about what the meaning of "IS' is. If any of you are in the L.A. area and were listening to Larry Elders last show on 790 AM yesterday, he had a hilarious parody with George Washington explaining to a. lawyer while under oath, as to why he chopped down a cherry tree.

I heard that!

Classic!

477 iam7545  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:46:19am

What BHO said makes no sense. Why would he distance himself from this situation?

He has every right to discuss his replacement with Blago. He also has every right to make a "legal" political deal. After all in a few weeks BHO will fill thousands of political jobs with people that worked on his campaign.

So why would he come out of the blocks lying about it?

My theory is that after the election he really thinks that he has the media in his pocket. I will guess that seeing the AP and other liberal lapdogs turn on him has him reeling.

I also think that Rohm got VERY close to crossing the proverbial line with Blago and the FBI told him. Lastly, BHO is close with Junior and he likely knows that JJJR is in deep $hit.

478 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:46:23am

re: #436 Walter L. Newton

OT...

The Indian navy captured 23 piracy suspects who tried to take over a merchant vessel in the Gulf of Aden near Somalia, Indian officials said. Included in the seized items were seven AK-47 automatic rifles, three other automatic weapons and 13 loaded magazines; a rocket-propelled grenade launcher along with rockets, cartridges and grenades.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

When we captured Germans in WWII, like on French soil, did we refer to them as "Nazi suspects?"

This is so fucked!

Its even worse than that.
There was a brief interiew on he Beeb earlier today (no linky, sorry) as there's a conference going on at Bahrein just nwo, about how to deal with that piracy.
Our NuLab minister, present at that conference, said one would have to deal with this problem by supporting people so they don't need to become pirates.

Yeah - like, give the poor criminals enough money and then they won't need to steal.
Have the whole Third world on the drip of Western welfare ...
Thats the typical mindset of the LLL: criminals are misunderstood, victims are the ones who are guilty.

479 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:46:32am

re: #463 Syrah

He won't go down alone.

Blagojevich is to Washington what Madoff is to Wall Street. Bringing it all down.

Yep. It's going to be ugly.

480 abilene  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:47:56am

"Somewhere in Chicago they're missing a thug"

Kinda long I guess.

481 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:48:26am
482 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:48:29am

re: #478 yma o hyd

Its even worse than that.
There was a brief interiew on he Beeb earlier today (no linky, sorry) as there's a conference going on at Bahrein just nwo, about how to deal with that piracy.
Our NuLab minister, present at that conference, said one would have to deal with this problem by supporting people so they don't need to become pirates.

Yeah - like, give the poor criminals enough money and then they won't need to steal.
Have the whole Third world on the drip of Western welfare ...
Thats the typical mindset of the LLL: criminals are misunderstood, victims are the ones who are guilty.

Hey, give me a government sponsored sex goddess and I'll stop dating woman and having off and on bad relationships.

483 Semi Cartman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:48:44am

re: #444 ploome hineni

I, for one, hopes Nobama slides him under the bus


I suspect he's driving the bus.

484 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:48:53am

re: #479 rightymouse

Yep. It's going to be ugly.

if he can it's certainly an option for a 7 to 10 at the club...

485 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:49:19am

re: #455 Cognito

Er... actually the Wall Street Journal is frequently accused of leaning to the right. It's owned by Murdoch. And it's a good paper.

Don't let your imagination get the best of you.

* * *
The Wall Street Journal is an excellent paper, excellently written, with DIVERSITY in reporting and editorial sections.

WSJ is NOT Murdoch's mouthpiece nor anyone elses.

486 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:49:45am

re: #448 jcbunga


Thanks ! Yeah, I've flown thru DFW several times this year w/ troops in and out-bound to Iraq/Afghanistan. Always gets to me to see those young men and women. I try to let 'em know they're appreciated.

487 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:50:14am

re: #484 albusteve

if he can it's certainly an option for a 7 to 10 at the club...


You'll have to enlighten me on this analogy.

488 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:50:37am

re: #405 Cognito

"prior to" November 4, that should have said.

That's not exculpatory -- quite the opposite. If Rahm Emanuel was communicating the President-Elect's wishes to third parties before he was publicly named to the President-Elect's team (indeed, before the President-Elect was even elected), then either he already had been named privately to the President-Elect's team and was speaking on the President-Elect's authority, or he has strange delusions of grandeur that give him the idea that without the President-Elect's knowledge, input or consent, he, Rahm Emanuel, can draw up short lists for the President-Elect's soon-to-be-vacated Senate seat.

489 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:50:55am

re: #482 Walter L. Newton

Hey, give me a government sponsored sex goddess and I'll stop dating woman and having off and on bad relationships.

See - you understand that concept to perfection!

490 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:51:29am

re: #460 Wishing

I thought lard was a descriptor for pork fat?
I never was able to figure out where the shortening was in vegetables, but I use it anyway.

* * *
There is oil in plants, plants have oils.

Usually in the nut kernel, where fats & proteins are concentrated. That's why we have:

Peanut oil.
Olive oil.
Corn oil.
Sunflower seed oil.
Walnut oil.

491 yma o hyd  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:51:36am

Going upstairs ...

492 Muadib  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:51:37am

re: #2 Nevergiveup

"Approved List" What exactly does that mean?

It's a Communist term.

493 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:52:02am

re: #480 abilene

"Somewhere in Chicago they're missing a thug"

Kinda long I guess.

Also: should be plural.

494 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:52:06am
495 albusteve  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:52:09am

re: #487 rightymouse

You'll have to enlighten me on this analogy.

ratting out anyone and everyone is preferable to a long prison sentence...start a feeding frenzy

496 alegrias  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:52:48am

re: #465 Dianna

And we know this because?

Besides, Rahm Emmanuel had to know he was going to be Obama's chief of staff pretty much before the election.

* * * *
Actually, you may recall Emmanuel expressed ambivalence about accepting the job offer.

Emmanuel probably regrets accepting Obama's offer now.

497 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:52:58am

re: #408 LGoPs

I respectfully mean no offense to any lizard lawyers but I think that by training lawyers are disposed to dissection of the language. I think it's the essence of their business and as such, clarity should not be expected from them.

This guy is bad news. By habit he is a "hider." Says ayers was a just guy in his neighborhood, hiding the fact that Ayers was a partner, and on and on.

Obama uses avoidance as deception.

498 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:52:59am

re: #490 alegrias

* * *
There is oil in plants, plants have oils.

Usually in the nut kernel, where fats & proteins are concentrated. That's why we have:

Peanut oil.
Olive oil.
Corn oil.
Sunflower seed oil.
Walnut oil.

Just add hydrogen and presto! Crisco!

499 rightymouse  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:53:31am

re: #495 albusteve

ratting out anyone and everyone is preferable to a long prison sentence...start a feeding frenzy

Ok. Thanks. I hadn't heard that one before.

500 BigMoo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:54:00am

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

I don't worry about any of this. I'm basically poor. I'm going to be 56 in a few weeks. Obama is going to see to it that I have health care, get my job back as a computer programmer, food on my table, pay my Comcast bill for internet, make sure I have a car that will get 200 miles per whatever, I'm all set. I don't need no weapons.

Except to shoot myself in the head when I see this country go to hell in a handbag. As Glen Beck has said, this country is going to hell in a handbag, the only disagreement is the size of that handbag.

I'm not too far behind you on age-and tend to think you're right. Sorry to hear about the job !

501 DistantThunder  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:54:18am

re: #412 Cognito

The one thing that seems proven beyond all question, so far, is the perfect idiocy of Rod Blagojevich.

Not if it worked for him in the past. Then he would just be figuring that what worked in the past would continue to work in the future.

502 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:57:07am

re: #475 ploome hineni

his silence and dissapearance NOW, suggests something he said to Blago is suspect

to me

but you are free to disagree with my opinion

I don't disagree. My point is that he would not have made the call if he'd known it was being taped.

So if he is on tape talking to Blago, he might well have been a bit too creative in his responses to a hypothetical scenario in which the President-Elect might make a concrete promise of an expression of gratitude to the Governor for respecting the President-Elect's wishes in the matter of the Senate appointment. Hypothetically, of course.

Or it's possible he simply wants to try to stay away from the open sewer, knowing that anything that comes out of it is going to be unpleasant and hard to wash off.

503 CharlieBravo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:57:52am

Should we start an "approved list of lies"... ?

504 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:58:43am

I do not think a republic can be maintained with the lack of virtue we are witnessing here.

505 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 11:59:29am

it is possible O lied in the beginning because he thought, based on his kid glove treatment in the past from the msm, his statement would not be questioned at all.
no one would doubt him and there would be no investigated even undertaken.
he thought he could stop the can of worms from even being opened.

hubris is going to bring him down.

506 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:00:02pm

re: #498 stuiec

Just add hydrogen and presto! Crisco!

& Also a big zeppelin tragedy.

507 Muadib  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:00:43pm

re: #503 CharlieBravo

Should we start an "approved list of lies"... ?

That would be the Democratic Platform.

508 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:00:48pm

re: #506 Ojoe

& Also a big zeppelin tragedy.

butter's better.

509 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:01:26pm

re: #508 nyc redneck

But butter is heavier than air.

510 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:02:42pm

Obama's pee is gold just like everyone else's.

Is this thread over?

511 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:03:40pm

re: #509 Ojoe

But butter is heavier than air.

not when i use it in pie crust. they all try to float to the ceiling.

512 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:04:22pm

re: #511 nyc redneck

Pike Rust

513 swamprat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:04:34pm

"I, myself did not discuss this. I may have been in the room, I might have even nodded once or twice, Maybe even have heard and discussed followups on the next day, but I did not say anything at the time."

that you can prove


Yeah. Like I would throw away what I've got over a two-bit Senate seat like a coulpe of fish wives fighting over a coupon. Get real.

514 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:04:41pm

re: #506 Ojoe

& Also a big zeppelin tragedy.

Is that what happened? They poured vegetable oil on the Hindenburg, hoping to turn the hydrogen into shortening and thus reduce its explosive potential?

Bad plan.

515 El Supremo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:05:39pm

re: #461 LGoPs
I think its because of the pissing match he got into with Doug Mcyntire and Al Rantel

516 El Supremo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:06:20pm

re: #476 Racer X

[Link: www.jewishworldreview.com...]

517 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:07:20pm

re: #514 stuiec

Actually the covering on the Hindenburg was doped with aluminum paint & was about as flammable as solid rocket fuel. Now the theory is that some static electricity ignited the cover as the ship became grounded with the landing lines.

Probably the Hydrogen was not responsible.

And on the next airship (there was one more) they did change the covering materials.

518 LGoPs  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:07:46pm

re: #515 El Supremo

I think its because of the pissing match he got into with Doug Mcyntire and Al Rantel

What a shame......hope somebody else picks him up....and broadcasts in LA

519 El Supremo  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:09:32pm

re: #518 LGoPs

What a shame......hope somebody else picks him up....and broadcasts in LA

Im sure Larry will be back soon. He is a class act.

520 swamprat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:12:03pm

re: #478 yma o hyd

Its even worse than that.
There was a brief interiew on he Beeb earlier today (no linky, sorry) as there's a conference going on at Bahrein just nwo, about how to deal with that piracy.
Our NuLab minister, present at that conference, said one would have to deal with this problem by supporting people so they don't need to become pirates.
Yeah - like, give the poor criminals enough money and then they won't need to steal.
Have the whole Third world on the drip of Western welfare ...
Thats the typical mindset of the LLL: criminals are misunderstood, victims are the ones who are guilty.

Harrgh! Wot do ye mean I can't buy any rum with food stamps? Wot kind of a scurvy crew do ye have here!

521 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:12:18pm

re: #517 Ojoe

Actually the covering on the Hindenburg was doped with aluminum paint & was about as flammable as solid rocket fuel. Now the theory is that some static electricity ignited the cover as the ship became grounded with the landing lines.

Probably the Hydrogen was not responsible.

And on the next airship (there was one more) they did change the covering materials.

Interesting. Explains why the film shows the skin of the thing burning up like tissue paper.

522 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:13:09pm
523 Muadib  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:13:26pm

re: #480 abilene

"Somewhere in Chicago they're missing a thug"

Kinda long I guess.

They're also missing a Communist Organizer.

524 Semi Cartman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:13:42pm

re: #496 alegrias

Emmanuel probably regrets accepting Obama's offer now.


Absolutely not. This kind of stuff is what he does. I'll bet that his only regret is overlooking the fact that the FBI practically had a microphone up Blagojevich's ass for close to four years now.

525 jainphx  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:15:23pm

The thing that most are missing here, was that the bribe would have to wait for two years. The fact that Blogo did not want to wait is what brought on the profanity. That great philosopher Leo Durocher said "Nice guys finish last, and some don't finish at all". its admirable to be tolerant, but quit asking others to blindly avoid the obvious, every one is allowed an opinion. What's the difference wether you take the bribe now or in two years, its still a bribe, the two years was a condition offered by Obama through his people.

526 vagabond trader  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:15:51pm

One expendable Jew heading for the bottom of the bus.

527 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:20:03pm
528 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:21:39pm

re: #388 Cognito

It seems that the BDS has had a strange counter-effect on some Conservatives. Judging by a few Cons I've heard from on message boards, they seem to believe that ANY criticism or questioning of Obama means that "we are just like them". Meaning the Kos, NYT dopes.

Obama seems to have lied and Rahm has definitely had contact with Blago. That's not paranoia or "derangement", that's a rational reading of the news.

529 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:24:27pm

re: #517 Ojoe

Mythbusters is a fun show. Did you see the episode about this? They did about 5 different experiments on the Hindenburg. All very informative. Apparently, the paint/covering was the culprit.

530 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:25:40pm

re: #472 Walter L. Newton

The designer is Marx. Didn't you see the gift catalog?

Walter -

I am 57, liked "Marx" much better when he worked with Hart and Schaffner or made toys.

-S-

531 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:29:44pm

He lied because he's a liar. He's been lying the entire campaign, in obvious ways, and people still made him president.

I still say the Bill Ayers "he's a professor of English" lie from the debate is the worst. Hello--Ayers hired Obama to run his Education thing, they worked together on it for years, and then worked on the Woods Fund, blah, blah.

The guy is a shameless pathological liar.

Let's see if Emanuel falls on the grenade to cover this lie for The Obamassiah.

532 jainphx  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:35:56pm

re: #528 Lincolntf

That hits it squarely, some want to stand back and be ever so tolerant, tolerance of evil causes death, and usually the innocent.

533 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:36:30pm

re: #529 Lincolntf

Don't have a TV. I would liked to see that show. Airships are cool, not the least because people ought to slow down, I think, & airships are slow!

534 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:37:16pm

re: #478 yma o hyd

Its even worse than that.
There was a brief interiew on he Beeb earlier today (no linky, sorry) as there's a conference going on at Bahrein just nwo, about how to deal with that piracy.
Our NuLab minister, present at that conference, said one would have to deal with this problem by supporting people so they don't need to become pirates.

Yeah - like, give the poor criminals enough money and then they won't need to steal.
Have the whole Third world on the drip of Western welfare ...
Thats the typical mindset of the LLL: criminals are misunderstood, victims are the ones who are guilty.

You are just not a compassionate fellow, are you? And you certainly seem to lack a good understanding of the love that is the heart of Islam.

/or read Blackhawk Down if you want to know what Somalia is actually like.

535 babes  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:40:18pm

re: #463 Syrah

You are right. I think that Blago will be spilling even more information than Rezko before this is all over. Blago is one vindictive dude.

536 FrogMarch  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:42:12pm

It's the same under the bus deal. In essence it's like Obama saying: "That's not the reverend I thought I knew" crapola. You know he wants to say -- "Who is Blogojavich? we ... I... I don't even know who he is?"

537 jainphx  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:42:18pm

re: #535 babes

You can't keep the truth hidden for ever, that's for sure.

538 nyc redneck  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:44:07pm

re: #536 FrogMarch

It's the same under the bus deal. In essence it's like Obama saying: "That's not the reverend I thought I knew" crapola. You know he wants to say -- "Who is Blogojavich? we ... I... I don't even know who he is?"

that's exactly right,
and oddly, it's not working so well this time.
O is bummed.
(too fcking bad.)

539 jainphx  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:48:33pm

Common sense tells us that if you are associates who have worked in each others campaigns, you must be like minded individuals. I don't think it's a stretch to think that they conversed on who to appoint.

540 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:51:18pm

re: #533 Ojoe

I agree with your "slow down" ethos. Just the other day I was telling someone how I liked the fact that a fast-food chain (Chick-fil-A) is always closed on Sundays, despite what must be huge market pressure to stay open and remain competitive. Reminds me of simpler, slower times.

541 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:51:46pm
542 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:55:44pm

re: #528 Lincolntf

It seems that the BDS has had a strange counter-effect on some Conservatives. Judging by a few Cons I've heard from on message boards, they seem to believe that ANY criticism or questioning of Obama means that "we are just like them". Meaning the Kos, NYT dopes.

Really? I'd like to see a link.

543 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:55:50pm

re: #532 jainphx

The worst part is that eventually some "Conservative" opinion maker on the networks or in the print media will say the same thing. After that, every story about Blago/Obama/Rahm will begin with something like: " In a case that even right-wing Republicans are calling a witch hunt...".

544 jainphx  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 12:59:46pm

re: #542 Sharmuta

What link there are some on this thread that seem to imply that we are jumping to conclusions, better to jump than sit back and morn that it's too late.

545 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:02:40pm
546 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:03:00pm

re: #544 jainphx

But that's not what Lincolntf asserted. Please point to a comment on this thread that says "ANY criticism or questioning of Obama" means we're koslings.

547 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:04:51pm

re: #542 Sharmuta

You want a link to my old softball team's website and a local paper a thousand miles from where I currently live? I'll spare them.
Just check out this site or any of the major newspaper sites (obviously, on the big sites I have no idea who is Conservative and who is not). The sense I get is that it's now just an undercurrent, but like anything else in this day and age, it could rapidly become far larger than it's insipidity warrants.

548 LC LaWedgie  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:06:12pm

“Trans-Love Airways is ready for immediate departure to Ronald Reagan Ticklmi’el-Mo Multinational Airport VIA O’Hare Obama Field. Last person leaving the terminal to kindly turn out the light and firebomb the bridge. This is your final call.”

549 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:10:36pm

re: #547 Lincolntf

I find your argument lacking. Not surprising.

550 fiery celt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:22:05pm

I have to admit feeling some degree of vindication regarding the current situation with the Governor of Illinois.
Typical business as usual ---- Most people who voted for Obama haven't a clue as to the political milieu in Illinois and the pervasiveness of the Democratic Chicago machine politics.
For most Chicagoans, Politics was and is a spectator sport---
Back when Chicago was a real newspaper town, we cut our teeth on the likes of Mike Royko and Irv Kupcinet, as they regaled us with satiric tales of the Machine and it's players.
Unfortunately, most Chicagoans also know that it was impossible to get a fair hearing when dealing with the city unless you have the means to pay off the politicians, the police or the judges.

"If indicted, Gov. Blagojevich would be the fifth of the last eight elected Illinois governors to be charged with a crime.
If he is sent to jail, the fourth to serve time. Since 1971, 1,000 Illinois public servants have been convicted of corruption, and in Chicago, 30 aldermen have gone to jail."


Obama is a product of this corruption--- Obama worked for Blagojevich, and his wife, Michelle Obama, worked for Daley. Obama endorsed Blagojevich in his two gubernatorial runs and was among his key advisers during his first bid, in 2002.

Lest we forget, Michele Obama got a $200,000 pay raise and a promotion just before Obama gave her employer Blackwell , a one million dollar earmark of government business.
Sounds just like the Blagojevich asking for Obama’s connections in getting his wife on a board follows a pattern. ---Obama had done it before.

Obama's Chief of Staff, Rahm Emmanuel filled Blagojevich's vacated congressional seat--- also the former seat of indicted and corruption ridden Dan Rostenkowsi (Pardoned by Clinton)
The US Senatorial leading incumbent candidate , Peter Fitzgerald "surprisingly" decided against running for a second Senate Term.
Essentially this left Obama unopposed in his run for the US Senate, against a token non-resident Republican, Alan Keyes..

It seems like U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald's ongoing investigation was precipitously interrupted, before a larger probe would lead to more Chicago/Washington, D.C. connections.
Some one obviously tipped off Obama's Camp. (Likely David Axelrod and his Chicago Tribune connections)
Note: Illinois TV station’s (KHQA) November 5th report of an Obama-Blagojevich meeting on that date was yanked from the Internet after observers noted that it proved Obama was lying when he said he hadn’t met with Blagojevich

We also need to remember that United States AG Patrick Fitzgerald obviously thwarted investigation and Illinois AG Lisa Madigan (also works for the Illinois/Chicago Democratic machine)
In fact, Lisa Madigan's father, Congressional Rep Michael Madigan is one of the most influential and connected, Machine power brokers in Illinois in his roles of Speaker of the Illinois House of Representatives and Chairman of the Democratic Party of Illinois.

Obama knows that he is sh*t-deep into the Blagojevich Senate seat "Pay to Play" scheme; after all, it is Obama's Senate seat that is being auctioned to the highest bidder.
Obama didn't defeat and/or collude with the Clinton machine, the Republican Party and raise almost a billion dollars in private contributions by being un-savvy and not realizing the importance of information, nor did he get to prominence without the backing/blessing of the Chicago Democratic party.---
The investigation was prematurely ended because ultimately all roads lead to the Democratic Machine and Richie Daley, Michael Madigan and golden boy Barack Obama along with his entourage.

(continued)

551 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:24:59pm

re: #549 Sharmuta

I find your disapproval cuter than a basket of puppies.

552 fiery celt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:25:41pm

Obama knew full well what was going on, and being true to form he treated Blagojevich like he did the racist Reverend Jeremiah Wright and his entire church congregation,, the slumlord/convicted felon Tony Rezko (major Obama Senatorial campaign contributor), Father Michael Pfleger , Jim Johnson ( former Head of Fannie Mae): Robert Malley and Hamas Supporter; Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers, Samantha Power (foreign policy advisor) – when the political limelight focuses on his rat pack , Barack does the Obama slimy quick step and throws them all under the bus to avoid tainting his contrived political persona---

Undoubtedly, the word to cut Blagojevich came from the Obama camp and the the Illinois Democratic Political Machine ( namely Michael Madigan and Richie Daley) as it became evident that the Governor was becoming increasingly careless and unstable, thereby jeopardizing Obama and Illinois political insiders.

You had better believe that Rahm Emmanuel and David Axelrod (Former Washington and Daley machine adviser ) will also become road kill as their involvement with Blagojevich and other corruptions, with the likes of Tony Rezko, come to light.

Admittedly Rod Blagojevich is incredibly stupid, (everyone in Illinois knows you don't talk deals over the telephone) but he is also has very capable skills of self-preservation. He has publicly burned his own father-in-law, Alderman Dick Mell in his bid to further himself politically.

You had better believe that John Harris (former Daley adviser) and Blagojevich will sing like canaries about the involvements of Obama and and the Democratic Party in the corruption.

Expect a plea deal for both to forestall these revelations from being known the public---- The front needs to be maintained.---

--Or Obama will be sworn in and then all these allegations come to light, and we face another Constitutional crisis


Interesting Note:
My husband, (he was the driver) remembers when Madigan met up with Joe Biden in the early eighties

553 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:27:07pm

re: #544 jainphx

What link there are some on this thread that seem to imply that we are jumping to conclusions, better to jump than sit back and morn that it's too late.

Sorry, but some skepticism is good. We should be careful to not jump the shark. Being beholden to facts is not a bad thing, and it's supposed to be what separates us from the koslings.

It looks to me like 0bama lied. He said there was no contact, when there was. This does not, however, give us license to go off the rails into wild speculation.

554 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:33:52pm

re: #551 Lincolntf

You made an assertion, then refused to back it up with any facts once questioned. Then, once called out on your lack of proof, you resort to condescension. Again- not surprised. You've used this tactic before.

555 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:35:04pm
556 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:36:08pm

re: #552 fiery celt
"You had better believe that Rahm Emmanuel and David Axelrod (Former Washington and Daley machine adviser ) will also become road kill as their involvement with Blagojevich and other corruptions, with the likes of Tony Rezko, come to light."

That's all I really want out of this imbroglio. Let Rahm pay for his misdeeds (I happen to believe that he was in up to his pencil neck on these shady deals ) and let Obama's halo get a bit of tarnish.
Nothing will reverse the results of the recent election, but having a Saint-in-Chief is not a good thing. Anything to knock Obama down a peg or two in the collective consciousness can only be a good thing after his unmolested stroll to the WH.

557 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:37:52pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

You really want to read my friends blogs? The Internet is a big place, I'm sure you can find the aforementioned zeitgeist with just a few taps of your keyboard.

558 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:38:40pm

re: #557 Lincolntf

No- I want you to back up your assertion.

559 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:41:12pm

re: #558 Sharmuta

Well, I want you to run your own errands.

560 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:45:19pm

re: #522 ploome hineni

read this

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

Yep. Obama, Emanuel, Axelrod and Blagojevich are thick as thieves. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Emanuel or someone as close to Obama as he is had told Blago that if he appointed an Obama-approved Senator, Obama would make it worth his while... after a suitable waiting period, to avoid the appearance of a quid pro quo. Because Blago said almost as much, in the comments that Fitzgerald quoted:

From the affidavit, page 68, paragraph 107:
On November 12, 2008, ROD BLAGOJEVICH talked with Advisor B. ROD BLAGOJEVICH discussed with Advisor B his idea for a 501(c)(4) organization. Advisor B stated that he likes the idea, but liked the Change to Win option better because, according to Advisor B, from the President-elect’s perspective, there would be fewer “fingerprints” on the President-elect’s involvement with Change to Win because Change to Win already has an existing stream of revenue and, therefore, “you won’t have stories in four years that they bought you off.” ROD BLAGOJEVICH said that he likes the 501(c)(4) idea because he knows it will be there in two years when he is no longer Governor, whereas Change to Win might not be.


561 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:46:03pm

re: #454 Killian Bundy

I not only think Obama is stupid enough to do that (actually it's more arrogance than stupidity, but they are awfully close to each other in this case), I think he was in the process of actually doing that.

He's certainly acting like a man with something to hide. As I and many others have said, it's not the crime that gets you. It is the cover up. There's no real question that there's a cover up going on. What they'll be able to dig out and prove in a court of law is a different thing.

If they even make a good faith effort to get the goods on Obama. I see no real reason to expect that they will do that. Obama has gotten so many passes on shit that would have sunk most other candidacies. I think he'll weather this one too.

562 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:46:18pm

re: #559 Lincolntf

Duly noted you're incapable of backing up your assertions.

563 babes  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:50:15pm

Does anyone know how what period of time Blago has been wiretapped?

564 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:50:43pm

re: #560 stuiec

Do we know who Advisor B is? I'd have to assume Rahm is A. That sounds like a fair facsimile of a smoking gun if Obama was directing the advisor.
Professional pols are well aware of the necessity to "insulate" themselves from sketchy deals, but very few advisors would be dumb enough to negotiate something like this without at least some guidance from the Boss.

565 Lincolntf  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 1:51:25pm

re: #562 Sharmuta

Duly noted that you're a bit of a shrew who wants to visit all my favorite message boards.

566 Sharmuta  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:03:25pm

re: #565 Lincolntf

Uh- no. I'm interested in your assertion being verified with some facts. Instead of presenting some facts, though, you'd rather delve into ad hominem and subscribe motivations to me that come from nothing but your imagination.

567 Ron Shaw  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:05:07pm

re: #53 Walter L. Newton

It is not unusual for this kind of "recommending" between politicians to go on, it's not illegal.

What is illegal is if they start trying to sell it.

Exactly.
I would naturally assume that Rahm was brokering the 'sell' for Obama's future kindness with the Gov and as we know, payment need not necessarily be in cash. That would be illegal, too. If not, why so much discussion about the pending pay-to-play, Chicago-style of musical chairs for the senate seat?

568 Mr Spiffy  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:14:01pm

Q: What is the difference between Governor Blagojevich and "son of a bitch"?


A: One is an obscenity, the other is something I say when I've hit my thumb with a hammer.

569 stuiec  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:26:54pm

re: #564 Lincolntf

Do we know who Advisor B is? I'd have to assume Rahm is A. That sounds like a fair facsimile of a smoking gun if Obama was directing the advisor.
Professional pols are well aware of the necessity to "insulate" themselves from sketchy deals, but very few advisors would be dumb enough to negotiate something like this without at least some guidance from the Boss.

Haven't read the indictment in the original. I get the impression from the excerpt I quoted that Advisor B is one of Blago's advisors, not one of Obama's, because he seems to be helping Blago work out his strategy. But I could be mistaken.

570 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:35:18pm

re: #552 fiery celt

I hope all you allude to sees the light of day.

We cannot maintain our freedoms with this level of corruption.

It is time to clean house.

571 starboardhelm  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:40:09pm

Of course he lied. He gets away with it every time, so why not? He swam to top of that cesspool in Illinois awfully fast, so it's hard to believe anyone could think he smells like a rose now -- but the MSM certainly believe he does.

What I want to know is, what else has Barry Soetoro lied about and is hiding? There must be some big skeleton in that expensive closet with his nirth certificate and college transcripts, etc.

572 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:41:34pm
573 Rancher  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 2:43:55pm

And? We knew he was a liar before he got elected. He said he wouldn't run for President after winning the Senate seat in 2004. I'm pretty sure he did run, much better than McCain in fact. He said no one told the Canadians his stance against NAFTA was just political posturing, a memo surfaced that an adviser did in fact convey that message. He said he would accept public funding and then reneged. Those of course are the ones that are fully proved, there may be others. What's important here is what he knew about an obvious bribery solicitation and what he was required by law to report.

574 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 3:02:00pm

Do we know that Obama talked to the Blanko personally or even that Emanuel did ? We have several levels of potential guilt from Obama talking Pay to play with the govenor, down to his staff talking to their staff in general terms about the senate seat. It sounds like we might want to hold off the impeachment talk until we know a few facts.

575 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 3:03:14pm
576 Maui Girl  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 3:59:30pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

That's true. And that's why I don't understand why anyone would start using the word "impeached" already. Sounds like Obama Derangement Syndrome to me.

ODS = odious

577 FredWM  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:06:55pm

So I was right after all. We are ending up in a discussion of the meaning of the word "discussion." Obama's position has become that there was never a "discussion" because both sides simply stated their position and a discussion supposes some kind of give and take. How Clintonian. Apparently, Obama lied when the truth would have worked just as well. Again how Clintonian. All we need now is for Michelle to complain that all these problems are really the work of a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy and the third term of the Clinton Administration can officially begin.

578 iam7545  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:10:07pm

re: #224 alegrias

* * *
Perhaps you've missed signs of GOP life from Senator Corker of Tennessee and Senator McConnell of Kentucky, standing up to the bailout pushermen and women?

Perhaps you missed that that GOP brought Rip Van Winkle McCain pretty close--instead of TOTAL WIPEOUT--considering the head winds and resistance to Republicans & to ANYone NOT a liberal?

Corker for President - he may be a midget - but he is tough and smart

579 bill-tb  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:23:10pm

How about we just simply go with Obama lies. Everyone in the world now knows that, except Odumbo voters.

The 'why', just as simple, Obama expected the media to cover it all up for him, just like they did before the election.

SO how does anyone trust anything he says, especially like the proved hoax of global warming.

580 jorline  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:50:44pm

Economy sucks and Chicagoland politics coming soon to DC...makes you feel all warm and safe don't it?

581 bombarafat  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:52:25pm

I think it's very plausible that Blago is defiant due to the fact that he has dirt on some big machers the soon to be BHO admin.

582 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:54:49pm

Like evolution, you have a right to ignore the science about global warming. That just means you don't buy the science, it does not make those that do are liars or fools.
Like many other issues,you can bury me in links that support your beliefs, just as I can for mine. As to Obama, before I accuse him of lying or call for his impeachment, I can wait a few days for the truth to come out.

583 picaro  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 4:56:05pm

When this story broke I commented on a thread that Rahm Emanuel was the likely Obama go-between with Blago. i wonder whether they even thought about the possibility of wiretaps.

584 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:15:25pm

re: #573 Rancher

And don't forget his rather protean stand on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. He was against it before he was (sorta) for it, and besides he "doesn't have the votes" to come after guns.

Except now he likely does have the votes. I will be shocked if some form of new gun control isn't pushed in the next two years. Whether or not it will pass is another question entirely. A lot of those freshman Congress critters ran on pro-Second Amendment platforms. I don't think we can sit back and relax and depend on them, but it is another hurdle that the gun-grabbers are going to have to jump.

585 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:18:14pm

re: #582 avanti

So tell me, how exactly are Americans responsible for the global warming we are seeing on Mars? Those damn SUVs are really killing the enviroment if their consequences have spread beyond our planet.

586 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:27:15pm

Ric Locke's AGW Trollhammer: There are several components to the Global Warming “debate”.

Numbah 1: Is it happening at all?
Numbah 2: What is the mechanism?
Numbah 3: Do human activities make a notable contribution?
Numbah 4: What will the result be?
Numbah 5: What can, and should, be done about it?

Warmenists answer very simply: (1) Yes definitely, (2) Carbon dioxide, (3) Yes, CO2 emissions from industry, (4) Disaster for everybody. Even a little looking into it reveals that the reality is a good bit less simple. More nuanced, if you like.

ONE: Evidence for warming comes entirely from surface measurements, which do show a warming trend. I urge anyone to visit Watts Up With That and its companion site surfacestations.org (link at the site). You don’t have to trust Mr. Watt; he will point you to the Government site where you can download the locations of the measurement stations, look them up in Google Earth or Microsoft Virtual Earth, and go see for yourself. Are we getting a warming signal because warming is happening, or because the guy who runs the measurement station bought an air conditioner and moved the thermometer closer to his house so he didn’t have to spend so much time in the cold reading it (or spend the money for a long wire to bring the signal inside the building, for convenience)? Note also that satellite readings indicate a cooling trend, and have since there have been satellites. (Satellites don’t have barbecue grills or air conditioners.)

Stations in other countries are often even worse. Just recently the data appeared to show that October 2008 was incredibly warm. As it turns out, all the warming came from a few stations in Siberia — and it turned out that the data was absolutely false. They didn’t have data for October, so they’d just “gundecked” it by repeating the figures for September! Eliminating the suspect data gives a cooler than average 10/08.

It also pays to pay attention to the scales on graphs. The UN (IPCC) data started out being shown with the scales marked in whole degrees and tens of centimeters of sea-level rise. The ones they’re showing now are marked in tenths of a degree and millimeters of water level — they look the same or worse, but plot them at the same scale and they don’t any more. Figures don’t lie, but liars can figure.

TWO: The case for CO2 rests entirely on coincidence. Carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere has unambiguously risen, and risen significantly, and this coincides with the rise of average global temeperature and with industrialization (which gets into point three; never mind). But the data from ice cores and other long-term measures of CO2 concentration is clear: CO2 rises after warming, not before. Furthermore, we have the puzzling example of the planet Mars. Mars gets almost forty percent as much sunlight as Earth does, but it has sixteen times as much carbon dioxide (and almost nothing else). If CO2 is such a potent greenhouse gas, why isn’t Mars much warmer?

The fact is, carbon dioxide from all sources produces less than five percent of the total “radiative forcing” (the jargon for turning sunlight into heat). The majority of the so-called (and misnamed) “greenhouse effect” comes from water vapor. If you look into the details — the nuance — you will discover that the predictions of CO2-forced warming come from computer models. Water is hard to account for in a computer model, because its behavior is complex. To save computer time, until recently the modelers simply ignored water vapor, assuming that water vapor concentration follows CO2 concentration in lockstep. Later modeling produces much more subtle results.

Continued...

587 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:29:08pm

AGW Trollhammer, Part Deux:

There is also the “carbon footprint” Trashman mentions. In a greenhouse, the glass gets warm too, because it absorbs some of the sunlight, as well as some of the longwave radiation emitted by the (warm) things inside the greenhouse. In an atmosphere where a “greenhouse effect” is occurring, the gases in the upper atmosphere serve the same purpose as the glass in the greenhouse, and the same effect occurs — they get warmer because they are absorbing sunlight and re-emitted longwave radiation. This is clearly not occurring — the data are unambiguous on this point.

THREE: The rise in CO2 concentration coincides with the rise of industrialization and use of fossil fuels. Warmenists have seized upon this as evidence — but correlation is not causation! Once again, we have the troubling example of other planets. Evidence of warming is detectable on at least two other planets (Mars and Jupiter) and some puzzling effects on three others (Saturn, Neptune, and Pluto) can best be explained by warming trends. There are neither SUVs nor coal-burning power plants in any of those places.

Total human output of carbon dioxide is dwarfed by that from natural causes, predominately volcanoes. Of the less than five percent of warming attributable to carbon dioxide, well under one-fifth — about eight-tenths of a percent of the total — can even plausibly be attributed to human sources, and the raw data would indicate about half that.

The notion that minor increases cause major effects rests upon the notion of a “runaway greenhouse effect” which begins at a “tipping point”. It is now absolutely clear that the math which predicts such an effect at Earth-normal concentrations of CO2 is wrong — it assumes an infinitely deep, uniform atmosphere (which, again, is easy to calculate) where ours is relatively thin and contains gradients (which makes it hard to figure). Venus is scary in that context because a runaway greenhouse has clearly occurred there, but Venus’s atmosphere is so thick and concentrated that the “infinite depth” assumption is valid — and this is not the case on Earth.

FOUR: We are all familiar with the apocalyptic predictions: the seas are gonna rise and wipe out the poor Bengladeshi (not to mention Miami), the temperate zone will be all desert, and the Arctic ice will all melt and drown the poor dear polar bears. It may have escaped your notice that those making those predictions have notably pulled in their horns in recent periods — the sea level rises of tens of centimeters or even meters have become rises of millimeters; after a few years of retreat the Arctic ice is growing (and the Antarctic ice never stopped), and polar bear populations have increased significantly; and a few people have even pointed out that warmer temperatures -> greater evaporation -> more rain.

Indeed, there have been warm periods before, and every such period has resulted in flowering of civilization and better living conditions. The Medieval Warm Period coincides with the first major increase in the wealth and power of European civilization, and if you look at the “lost cities” (Angkor Wat, the Anasazi ruins of the American Southwest, others) in every case except one their rise coincides with the MWP and their fall with its end. The exception is Teotihuacan, in the Valley of Mexico — and Teotihuacan didn’t fall from climactic effects, it fell because of competition from other civilizations which were growing and expanding due to better agriculture and more favorable living conditions.

588 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:31:09pm

AGW Trollhammer, Three:

There would appear, from both fossil record and history, to be warming and cooling cycles for the whole Earth with a period of roughly a thousand years. The MWP was a thousand years ago; the Roman Empire grew during the Roman Warm, a millenium before that; the Patriarchs of the Bible and the early flowering of Mesopotamian civilization came a millenium before the Romans; and a millenium before that there was Mohenjo-Daro, in the valley of the Indus in today’s Kashmir and Pakistan — which is unique in that there was also Harappa a millenium before that in the same place, making the Indus civilization the only known one to prosper over two warm periods and the intervening cold spell.

The record is clear, where it hasn’t been deliberately obscured (by Thomas Mann, among others): during warm period civilization flowers; when the cold comes, the barbarians from the northern steppes swarm south and stamp it out. If you want peace on Earth, pray for warmth. If Russians can grow food they will have no motive to look elsewhere. And if you’re truly worried about the poor Bengladeshi, find out what sea level was in the Bay of Bengal circa the year 1000. Hint: more than one city is still there.

FIVE: In order to eliminate the human contribution to carbon dioxide concentrations, it will be necessary (but not sufficient) to totally eliminate all industrialization using fossil fuels. Where will the energy come from to keep us fed and warm? Ethanol? Six and a half billion people — soon to be ten billion — want to eat that grain, and the energy yield of ethanol production is a small fraction of the total energy it produces. Solar panels? Look up the energy cost of making a solar panel, and the likely output from it; solar energy costs, not pays, on net, besides producing some of the nastiest environmental contamination around. Windmills? Same as for solar panels. The only even remotely possible energy source is nuclear NONONONONO NO NUKESNUKESEXPLODE AND KILLPEOPLE AND POISONTHEENVIRONMENT NONONONONONOOOOOOOO…

Non-industrial civilizations have a larger “carbon footprint” than industrial ones, especially if the industrial civilizations are allowed to use nuclear NONONONONONUKES! power. Human beings breathe out carbon dioxide, and if they have to burn wood to stay warm and grow food the fires produce a lot of it. Six and a half billion peasant farmers will produce more carbon dioxide than the same number of SUV drivers. The only possible solution is significantly reducing the population, and all I have to say about that is, YOU FIRST, ASSHOLE.

And besides, the control measures necessary to reduce carbon dioxide emissions significantly amount to iron control of every aspect of existence, from how long you can run your lights in the evening to how many beans you can eat (methane being a worse greenhouse gas than CO2). This is immensely attractive to scam artists, both the financial type (”carbon credit trading”, anyone?) and the sort of asshole who just wants to Be In Charge regardless of excuse. There are a lot of us who think that even if the worst predictions arising from Global Warming came to pass, it would still be better than setting up a world-wide fascist regime charged with monitoring all the minutiae of life, down to how often we fart.

None of this is mysterious, although much of it is more obscure than it ought to be because (we darkly suspect) the opportunists looking for excuses to Be In Charge deliberately conceal it. The data is out there. Check it before you bleat.

Regards,
Ric

Cut 'n Pasted, I know, but the most concise argument I've seen yet.

589 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:31:33pm

According to scientists Mars warming is from increased dust storms, but you'll find warming skeptics that think otherwise. :

"Global warming could be heating Mars four times faster than Earth due to a mutually reinforcing interplay of wind-swept dust and changes in reflected heat from the Sun, according to a study released Wednesday.

Scientists have long observed a correlation on Mars between its fluctuating temperatures -- which range from -87 C to - 5 C (-125 F to 23 F) depending on the season and the location -- and the darkening or lightening of swathes of the planet's surface.

The explanation is in the dirt.

Glistening Martian dust lying on the ground reflects the Sun's light -- and its heat -- back into space, a phenomenon called albedo.

But when this reddish dust is churned up by violent winds, the storm-ravaged surface loses its reflective qualities and more of the Sun's heat is absorbed into the atmosphere, causing temperatures to rise.

The study, published on Thursday by the British journal Nature, shows for the first time that these variations not only result from the storms but help cause them too.

It also suggests that short-term climate change is currently occurring on Mars and at a much faster rate than on Earth.

Its authors, led by Lori Fenton, a planetary scientist at NASA, describe the phenomenon as a "positive feedback" system -- in other words, a vicious circle, in which changes in albedo strengthen the winds which in turn kicks up more dust, in turn adding to the warming.

In the same way, if a snow-covered area on Earth warms and the snow melts, the reflected light decreases and more solar radiation is absorbed, causing local temperatures to increase. If new snow falls, a cooling cycle starts.

For Earth, global warming is mainly associated with human activities -- notably the burning of fossil fuels -- that release carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere, trapping more of the Sun's heat. "

590 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:44:40pm

A few simple facts.

We know C02 in the atmosphere causes atmospheric heating.
We know mans activities have raised C02 levels since the start of the industrial revolution.
We know temperatures have followed the rising C02 levels.
It is still a open question as to what percentage is caused by mans C02 emissions, but few question some impact.
My biggest question is why this should be a conservative or liberal issue ? I see many on the right now moving toward some acceptance of man made warming, but don't get the politics of the issue.
"IF" we are the cause and do nothing, we're screwed, if we do, at the very least we'll decrease our dependence on Arab oil and clean up the planet.

591 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 5:55:24pm

One of my brothers works in agriculture. The professional meteorologist with whom he works reports that the same climate model used to predict the weather of the next few days, and which by the fifth day out is as accurate as randomness, is the same model used to predict the multi year temperature rise; they just let it run longer.


IMHO we are presently staving off the next ice age with our fossil fuel use.

592 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:23:45pm

re: #590 avanti

A few simple facts.

We know C02 in the atmosphere causes atmospheric heating.

No, we don't. This has been asserted many, many times, but no hard evidence has been produced to support it. Correlation does not equal causation.

We know mans activities have raised C02 levels since the start of the industrial revolution.
We know temperatures have followed the rising C02 levels.

No, it's the other way around: CO2 levels actually follow temperature increases.

It is still a open question as to what percentage is caused by mans C02 emissions, but few question some impact.
My biggest question is why this should be a conservative or liberal issue?

Because AGW promoters want to tax the fuck out of the industrialized West in general, and the USA in particular. THAT is very much a conservative/liberal issue if ever there was one.

I see many on the right now moving toward some acceptance of man made warming, but don't get the politics of the issue.

Acceptance? By whom? The low-information "moderate" voter? The Alphabet Network News viewer? What you're seeing is the result of a decades-long propaganda campaign by Gramscian eco-Marxist political activists and friendly grant-seeking researchers who know the most hysterical claims get the most attention (and the most funding).

"IF" we are the cause and do nothing, we're screwed, if we do, at the very least we'll decrease our dependence on Arab oil and clean up the planet.

And unicorns will dance in the meadows. Please. We could spend 10 times the amount of the entire US federal budget and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Hamstringing the US economy for some pie-in-the-sky eco-utopia is beyond stupid, and a colossal and immoral waste of resources. (Should we all live in some 14th century subsistence-farming agrarian society? We'd have to reduce the world's population to 14th century levels for that to have any chance at success. Who should be eliminated to get there?)

Should we go about some massive worldwide scheme to rein in water vapor, a vastly more efficient "greenhouse gas"? ALL of the dire predictions are computer climate model-based, yet, pro-AGW climate models ALWAYS fail because atmospheric water vapor never behaves the way the AGW promoters want it to. So they ignore it.

CO2 is NOT a "pollutant". All breathing creatures exhale it and plants need to grow. The largest source of CO2, by a huge margin, is the world's oceans, not fossil fuel consumption.

"Alternative energy" sources (other than evil, nasty nuclear power) are all much more energy-intensive and polluting in the long run than fossil fuels (do you know how much energy is required to produce photo-voltaic solar panels, or that the chemical byproducts, like silicon tetrachloride, are extremely hazardous?)

593 NoWhereAlaska  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:23:45pm

re: #590 avanti

A few simple facts.

We know C02 in the atmosphere causes atmospheric heating.
We know mans activities have raised C02 levels since the start of the industrial revolution.
We know temperatures have followed the rising C02 levels.
It is still a open question as to what percentage is caused by mans C02 emissions, but few question some impact.
My biggest question is why this should be a conservative or liberal issue ? I see many on the right now moving toward some acceptance of man made warming, but don't get the politics of the issue.
"IF" we are the cause and do nothing, we're screwed, if we do, at the very least we'll decrease our dependence on Arab oil and clean up the planet.

The problem I see is that the sun's fluxuations can make the world temperature vary considerably. However, the increase in CO2 levels increase the temperature by only one degree (C) or less. There are far more serious concerns regarding increased CO2 levels than temperature--for instance the increase in acidity of the oceans.

It is just another one of the 'Sky is Falling' scenarios that allow our socialist buddies in Congress to institute yet another government program to protect us from an almost nonexistent problem. Of course, now we have the economic "sky-is-falling" so they can shelve glowbull warming for another day.

594 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:28:45pm

re: #590 avanti

Atmospheric CO2 is a requirement for life on earth. It is the primary source of energy for plants. It is not simply a "pollutant" that needs to be gotten rid of.

Temperature measures have increased, but correlation is not causation. Just because X happened at the same time as Y doesn't mean X caused Y.

I would be more inclined to give the Global Warming folks some credibility if they lived their lives as though they really believe the horse shit that they are shoveling. The Gorecle himself is the most blatant of Global Warming hysterical hypocrites. He doesn't let little things like CO2 keep him from flying places in his private jet, or having a house that uses what, ten times the energy used by the average American? Gore doesn't act like he believes his own spew. Why should we believe him?

The other place that this is glaring obviously is in the Third World. While the Global Warmists are advocating essentially eviscerating the American economy in the name of environmentalism, but they're OK with China continuing to grow their CO2 output as they grow their economy.

Global Warming looks suspiciously like an attack on the American Economy in the name of environmentalism. Again, the people spreading this bullshit do not, themselves, act like they believe it.

As to why it is a Leftist/Conservative issue, well, ask the Global Warmists. I personally think it is because Leftists have wanted to bring down Capitalism from their very inception, and America represents the triumph of Capitalism over socialism.

Bringing down America seems to be far more important than any real concern about the environment.

You present the issue as though lowering CO2 output was without any costs of its own. This is completely false. Energy consumption has grown during and after the Industrial Revolution because the economy itself has grown. Energy is a requirement for continued growth. You cannot hope to build a 21st Century economy with a 19th century infrastructure. One of the big weaknesses in the economy right now is that we haven't brought enough new resources on line to support the economy. We haven't done the oil exploration in our own country, built the refineries, or built the nuclear power plants to support the economy we have. As the gas shortages this summer demonstrated.

The Left don't want to build any new energy resources, at least any energy resources that aren't out of science fiction. Even wind farms are blocked by so-called environmentalists. Have we even built one nuclear plant since 1980? I don't think so.

Global "warming" is a chimera. The global temperature is not, and never has been a constant. There are periods in Earth's history when the temperature was much warmer than it is now. There are also periods in Earth's history when the temperature was far lower than it is now. All of these periods occurred before humankind was of any impact on the environment. I think it is safe to say that they weren't caused by human intervention.

What reasons do we have to believe that the temperature fluctuations that we are seen now is any different? If we wreck the American economy in pursuit of some magical formula to stabilize the global temperature, it won't come back anytime soon, if ever.

595 daveycrockett  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:29:29pm

If only these investigations had been made public during the election. Only question is, if it would have made a difference?

596 dragondirt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:35:18pm

Who in the heck really thinks Caroline Kennedy is ready to be Senator? Give me a bleeping break! (Blago made it hip to say "bleep")

[Link: www.dragondirt.org...]

597 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:36:50pm

re: #595 daveycrockett

If only these investigations had been made public during the election. Only question is, if it would have made a difference?

With a (mostly government-engineered) Wall Street financial meltdown in an election year, and a pathetically inept McCain campaign, probably very little, sad to say.

598 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:37:59pm

re: #594 Iron Fist

Yep. If AlGore really believed all this crap, would he continue to live the way he does? The guy does have grandchildren, right? He wants to leave his grandkids living in climatological hell?

599 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:38:19pm

re: #595 daveycrockett

I don't know that they would have made any difference. Certainly there is no reason to believe that the Media would have turned it into the kind of hammer that they turned Abu Grabass into. Anybody that was paying attention knew that Obama was corrupt. They knew that Obama had relationships with a cast of characters that ranged from the merely seedy to genocidally inclined terrorists.

McCain could have done a better job of driving this home, but I don't know that it would have made a significant impact on the vote. The majority (slim, but it was a majority) of voters bought into the hopey changiness of the Obamessiah. They were willing to vote for anyone who told them comforting bed-time stories of world peace and unicorn droppings.

And now we're going to find out what was really behind door number two. I don't think that it will be pleasant.

600 daveycrockett  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:42:10pm

re: #597 Spiny Norman

You're right, it is sad. It's sad to see that this is now the direction our nation is heading, what can one do?

601 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:42:59pm

re: #598 funky chicken

Yep. If AlGore really believed all this crap, would he continue to live the way he does? The guy does have grandchildren, right? He wants to leave his grandkids living in climatological hell?

Heh. One thing we DO know is that he'll leave them wealthy enough they won't care.

602 Spiny Norman  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:46:18pm

re: #600 daveycrockett

You're right, it is sad. It's sad to see that this is now the direction our nation is heading, what can one do?

Weather the storm. And get out the vote in 2010 (and 2012). Make the Obama Administration as much of a embarrassing footnote as the Carter Administration.
.

Then again, we are still living with the unfortunate consequences of Rabbit Bait's four years...

603 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:50:36pm

First, I agree that we should not be expected to act alone even though the US is a major source of C02, India, China and other are catching up. I totally disagree that the left is anti capitalist. We need conservatives to restrain the progressives, and progressives to push for needed change. Neither is automatically anti anything.
I happen to believe we can both lower emissions and save the industry money at the same time. Many companies that have tried recycling and energy conservation have same lots of money by so doing. Wind, nuclear and solar will be the future, dirty coal is the past.
I have friends that refuse to even replace their incandescent bulbs even though it would save them money, the same with better insulation, more efficient appliances and the like.
Some conservatives might think it's the right of a 100 pound soccer mom to run around in a 5000 pound SUV, some liberals may want her on a bicycle, I fall somewhere in the middle.

604 daveycrockett  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 6:50:59pm

The thing that bothers me about weathering it out is this, I'm about to graduate from college and for my major the best financial options out there (given that BHO is able to put his ideals into signed bills) are in countries like Australia or Ireland thanks to their lower corporate taxes.

605 dragondirt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 7:02:18pm

McCain ran the worst campaign i've ever seen.

McCain wanted to run a 'respectable' campaign and Obama wanted to win.

It felt like McCain threw in the towel long before November 4th. However, he actually started to give decent speeches and had some energy about the last week of the campaign. Why couldn't he have sounded that way all throughout?

606 Promethea  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 7:53:06pm

Why I love LGF . . .

Recipe for piecrust, discussion about the fall of the American republic, discussion about the causes of the Hindenberg disaster all on one thread

607 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 7:59:30pm

re: #603 avanti

I totally disagree that the left is anti capitalist.


The Left are almost by definition anti-Capitalist. The principal goals of all forms of Leftism are the control of the means of production by the State, and an egalitarian distribution of the production from capital interests. Various flavors of Leftism may formulate these goals somewhat differently, or emphasize one more than the other. For example National Socialism allowed the means of production to remain nominally in the hands of individuals, but had rigorous State control of what the means of production really did. You might own the factory, but Hitler told you what to produce.

Under Lenin and later Stalin, the means of production were either nationalized (if they had existed before the Communist Revolution) or created by the State for the State. Rember that before the Communist Revolution in Russia there wasn't much in the way of industry to nationalize. Agrarian property was nationalized, though, and the peasants went from working for their Feudal lord to working for the Totalitarian State. Stalin used this control to cause famine in the Ukraine killing millions of people.

The Left in the United States turned a blind eye to Stalinist USSR during the famine, and really have down-played it ever since. Later, during the Cold War, various Leftists gave support to the USSR ranging from willful propaganda to actively working with the KGB. This continued in one fashion or another up until the Wall came down, and Communism essentially went bankrupt.

Today, the Left are still supporting the Enemies of America. Nowhere is this more evident than in International A.N.S.W.E.R., a Stallinist front-group that has been actively propagandising against the American war effort since (quite literally) the day after 9-11.

Don't take my word for it, though. Go over to zombietime, and see the Left on display for all to see. Their goals aren't any real big secret.

It's just that people don't want to see it.

608 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:07:58pm

My daughter told me a funny story....in their "social studies" class, they watch CNN for kids, or whatever it's called. On Friday they actually had a GLOBAL COOLING story...but with all the stupid crap about how polution causes it that they'd used for global warming.

LOL she said all the kids in the class laughed their heads off. 7th graders get it...too bad so many adults don't.

I of course told her that AlGore says that pollution causes global warming, and now that there's gonna be a global cooling crisis, we'd better start polluting as much as possible. She laughed at my joke, which is nice :-).

609 Biff  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:13:15pm

re: #550 fiery celt

The US Senatorial leading incumbent candidate , Peter Fitzgerald "surprisingly" decided against running for a second Senate Term.
Essentially this left Obama unopposed in his run for the US Senate


In my mind, this is where the scandal leads.

610 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:13:49pm

re: #606 Promethea

Over a span of 9 hours too.

611 Marvo76  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:24:51pm

re: #329 Charles

I disagree. And I've lost patience with the idea that we have to give politicians a break when they are very obviously weaseling. When did it become acceptable practice to deliberately choose words that can be spun whatever way the politician wants?

If I had a friend who weaseled around like that, he wouldn't be a friend for very long. Why do we let politicians get away with this crap? Bah.

Unfortunately that has become "the way of the world" I don't like it any more than you do, but since it seems to be an accepted norm now, "whatcha gonna do?"

612 Marvo76  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:30:44pm

re: #372 Racer X

Is it possible O, and Emanuel, was cooperating with the Feds?

Possible? Yes, Probable? Not likely, like someone else put on another thread, how did a boy from Hawaii go to Chicago and rise so fast in that corrupt hell hole...(paraphrased)

613 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:31:05pm

Ok, the far left, i.e. Stalin is anticapitalist, and the far right are Nazi's, but I'm talking about left of center, right of center here. I liked the job both Reagan and Clinton (other then the BJ thing) did, not so much GW or Carter. I happen to think that had McCain won, I'd wish him well and hope the right would give Obama a chance. The days of all the opposing parties always being wrong have got to pass if we have a future.
I've been booted off other right leaning sites simply for expressing that view as I'm sure conservatives have been tossed off left leaning sites.
It's the job of the right to oppose those on left when they screw up,and the reverse. I just don't like the "I hope Obama screws up the country" to make my side look better mentality, anymore then Bush was Hitler crap from the far left.
That is the one thing that made me comfortable with Mccain. If he liked your idea, he didn't care much what your politics were.

614 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:32:47pm

re: #611 Marvo76

You can not vote for them.

615 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:36:37pm

re: #608 funky chicken

One of the things that lets you know it is a scam is how they take almost any fact and say that it supports their theory. If the temperature rises, it's global warming. If the temperature falls, it's global warming. If the temperature stays the same, it is also global warming.

If they weren't trying to use it as a vehicle for attacking the American economy, you could just blow it off as kooks being kooks, but they are trying to use it to attack the American economy. They don't see the economic consequences as a bug, but as a feature of carbon regulation.

And the Obamessiah is right there with them on that. In the name of making the world love us again.

616 Marvo76  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:40:18pm

re: #521 stuiec

Yep Aluminum is one of the things they use to make a thermobaric bomb...

617 fiery celt  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:40:32pm

Peter Fitzgerald the incumbent Republican opponent to Obama's Senatorial aspirations , who was leading in the polls, was forced to leave the race after the unsealing of divorce records exposed a sex scandal.
Fitzgerald decided not to expose his family to the resultant humiliation if he stayed in the Senate race.
They ( the machine ) had the goods on him , and he decided not to run a Second term in order to sheild and protect his family.

Actually, he was an honest decent guy as far as Illinois Politicians are concerned, however he would not play by their rules.

In addition, the Dems in Illinois were already grooming Obama for a Presidential run, and needed to Senate seat as a stepping stone in Obama's rise to power and prominence.

618 avanti  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:49:04pm

You can't lay global warming just at Obama's feet, McCain and GW are believers too.

619 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 8:51:48pm

re: #617 fiery celt

grooming Obama


Bow wow wow

620 Marvo76  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 9:05:20pm

re: #614 Ojoe

I didn't vote for that one, but the two party system is killing us, right now the chances of a true dark horse that cold clean up is slim, I would love for the Constitution party to get a major seat in one of the elections, teh Libertarians in another, just to show the world it can be done. (and to put the fear of God in the repubs and dems showing them they CAN be replaced)

621 Iron Fist  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 9:11:40pm

re: #613 avanti

The Center doesn't really lie between National Socialism and Stalinist socialism. That spectrum only covers socialistic political thought. The Nazis were every bit as serious about their Socialism as the Soviets were in theirs. Even Italian Fascism came out of the Socialist Left. All three were Totalitarian in their implementation.

Free-market Capitalism is outside of that spectrum, as is "classical" small-"L" liberalism. One of the great cons in the Twentieth Century was getting the Nazis labeled as the extreme Right. Locke is the foundation of "Right-wing" political thought. Limited government, social contract, and the concept of "natural" rights that the Government can't interfere with are the Right.

Center Left is essentially Democratic Socialists. They aren't necessarily totalitarian in their implementation, but would have a far more powerful State than could be seen on the Right. In America, the Left tends to duck the name of socialism, while they embrace its tenets. Obama is almost a text-book case for Socialism. He emphasizes "Social justice" at the expense of individual liberty. thus his desire for higher taxes. Higher taxes can result in a decline in actual revenue, but the higher taxes on the "rich" achieve (or are seen to achieve) social justice.

It will be interesting to see how he governs. I think that he'll raise taxes in some form or another, even if it is just letting the Bush tax-cuts expire and the tax system reverting to what it was under Clinton.

He ran on a platform of Nationalizing health care, or at least health care insurance. I am extremely worried about what he will do in the area of gun control.

I don't necessarily hope that the Obama Administration fails per se, but I do hope that he fails to implement policies that are going to be destructive for the Country. I don't wish for him to fail foreign policy wise, but he's going to have to grow up and live in the real world for him to have any hopes of real success. Calling for a meeting of all the leaders in the Islamic world so that he can kowtow to them isn't a path to success. At best it is hopelessly naieve. Sitting down for talks with Iran with no preconditions is almost certain to fail, if his goal is stopping Iran from developing atomic weapons.

And God Himself couldn't bring peace to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Not as long as the Palestinians have any hope (or even delusions of "hope") of defeating Israel militarily. You just can't get there from here.

Obama is going to have two years to show us we can trust him. It's not looking very promising so far. He's not going to get any "honeymoon" from the Right. By running for President, Obama implicitly declared that he is indeed ready to lead the Nation through these next four years. He better be. If he isn't, then we are going to pay a heavy price for the "hope" and "change" that Obama has promised to bring.

622 Ojoe  Sat, Dec 13, 2008 9:21:56pm

re: #620 Marvo76

Hear Hear!

I have "wasted" my vote on "fringe" candidates more than once.

And the last time a durable party got started was in a time of real national crisis, before the Civil War, with the Republicans.

I don't think times are like that yet again, but the country sure could use an increase in virtue.

Well, time for some ZZZZZ here on the west coast.

Good night all.

623 theheat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 7:27:18am

Selective amnesia and deceit has been part of politics as long as there have been politicians. It's sickening, and as tired of it as we've become, there is no end in sight. The ones with the power will do or say anything to keep it, whether it's throwing someone under the bus, or quietly having the most inconvenient dispatched. It doesn't matter if it's America or Russia or Mexico - corruption is everywhere. Sadly, We The People have been powerless to end it. The token bastard bagged here and there is but a drop of water in the bucket; just a bone thrown toward the masses to shut them up for the moment.

624 iceman1960  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 8:51:11am

It would be foolishness to think Obama's hands are clean in this.
You can't swim around in a cesspool without getting Sh#t on you.
These people in Chicago politics have been getting away with corruption for so long that it's just matter-of-fact daily operation and they cease to see the criminality in it.

625 A.W.  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:39:41am

I'm not ready to convict Obama or even Rahm about anything, but his continual dishonesty does make me want an investigation. I smell blood in this water.

That said, from the tapes themselves, all Obama offered him as "gratitude." But maybe there is something the tapes don't say. Investigate. Let's not fall all over ourselves to clear him yet.

And yes, i know some people want to sweep this under the rug because we are sick of scandal. but if you didn't want scandal, gee, maybe you shouldn't have elected someone from Chicago. Just a thought...

626 swassociates  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:38:02am

The Democrat corruption isn't a surprise at all. I am surprised that the Ko's haven't claimed it's a Rovian conspiracy.

627 Cutty Sark  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:48:15pm

No it isn't , no more than Republican corruption , and if the situation were reversed there would be the same , inquiries and suggestions , and Republicans no doubt would be attempting to present their own candidate .
The question is did Obama involve himself in a conspiracy to "buy " the seat ?

So unless anyone can prove that ....best shut your mouths else you engage in slander .

You all are a bunch of "sour grapes whining washwomen " .
And I guess you will be bitching for the next four years as true partisan politicos will invariably do .....and we all can watch another acrimonious four years of a useless non-productive Congress .

628 Roses  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:52:38am

Doesn't Rahm Emanuel remind you of Jafar in Aladdin?


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