Brussels Journal Advocates Tribal Nationalism, White Separatism

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Sun Dec 14, 2008 at 9:25 am PST • Views: 1,177

In an extremely verbose article that begins with a bizarre science fictional premise that “white Europeans” suffer from a disease only they can catch, Brussels Journal openly advocates tribal nationalism and white separatism.

The mask is completely gone now. This article is indistinguishable from the rubbish you’ll find at sites like the neo-Nazi Stormfront — except that the author, “Takuan Seiyo,” tries mightily to sound like he’s actually denouncing white supremacism, while simultaneously embracing all of its ideological bases. He attempts to short circuit criticism with twisted rationalizations like this:

The tribe I imagine is a sort of ethno-conservative and culturally reactionary white ummah stretching from New Zealand to Alaska, the way the Muslim ummah spans from the remotest islands of Indonesia through Bosnia to British Columbia, but without the negative baggage. In each nation, people who have not yet morphed into Body Snatchers already know how to define themselves as a local ethny, but a universal component is needed as well.

The British National Party’s constitution defines BNP’s constituency as “indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain.”

Good definition, but one day it will be nice to see a phrase added that asserts solidarity with a list of similar parties in 40 other countries. For now, the vehement Fascism(3) of Body Snatcher society is such that by merely mentioning the BNP I am subjecting this website to criticism and am placing myself on a variety of black lists and white lists maintained in some windowless cubicles by Pod apparatchiks no less fanatical than were the Stasi functionaries rifling through East German population’s letters and underpants [sic] in the basement of the Stasi Headquarters in the Berlin suburb of Lichtenfeld.

It’s sickening—and almost beyond belief that Brussels Journal, who are closely affiliated with the Vlaams Belang, would publish something so openly racist at a time when they’re under the microscope more than ever before, and their party has been rejected from participation in the anti-jihad conference now underway in Jerusalem.

In addition to being linked at many blogs, Brussels Journal is currently listed as a member of the Wall Street Journal’s OpinionJournal Federation.

Are these the kinds of sentiments the Wall Street Journal wants to support—praise for the fascist British National Party and white separatism? And if you’re linking to them, is this the kind of “conservatism” you want to support?

(Hat tip: Pastorius.)

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378 comments

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1 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:27:47am

Will you contact the WSJ, Charles?

2 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:27:53am

Despicable. The WSJ should shun them immediately!

3 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:32:12am

Way to stay on it, Charles. Need to get through with this message to WSJ, a bastion of editorial common sense. Decontaminate!

4 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:32:20am
culturally reactionary white ummah


Yikes!

5 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:33:11am

They still haven't been removed from the PJ Media Blogroll.

6 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:34:28am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Wasn't Hitler a reactionary white boy?

7 winston06  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:34:37am

Europe is doomed

8 Cathypop  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:34:44am

I do not want to be a part of that tribe.

9 pat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:35:25am

The Ice People

10 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:35:44am

re: #3 Joan

Way to stay on it, Charles. Need to get through with this message to WSJ, a bastion of editorial common sense. Decontaminate!

Just tried to figure out how to respond at WSJ, no luck yet. They need the heads up on this. The other affiliates are pretty solid, impressive.

11 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:36:17am

This is not done by the site owner but by some guest. The owner is responsible for the conduct of the guest but it may be recoverable. We can hope that the owner takes a look and takes action. Has he spoken at all?

12 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:36:34am

It seems to me the europeans never learned. The never embraced the ideology which gave rise to the people who freed them from fascism, but instead would rather fall back on what they know- blood and soil.

Ugly, disgusting, and the opposite of everything we in America hold dear.

I fear they'll never learn.

13 nyc redneck  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:36:41am

there are too many good people in all races to be so exclusionary.
this is going backwards.

14 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:37:08am

Glad you posted on this, Charles. Now, it will get the attention it deserves.

15 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:37:40am

re: #10 Joan

Just tried to figure out how to respond at WSJ, no luck yet. They need the heads up on this. The other affiliates are pretty solid, impressive.

Contact us.

16 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:37:41am

The solution to the problems of ethnic tribalism is not going to be more ethnic tribalism. This writer is a wordy fool.

17 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:38:29am

This is the "Clash of Civilizations" re-writ with "Civilization" defined as white. Typicall WN kookosphere garbage, like Solutrean trooferism.

18 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:38:44am

re: #11 lifeofthemind

This is not done by the site owner but by some guest. The owner is responsible for the conduct of the guest but it may be recoverable. We can hope that the owner takes a look and takes action. Has he spoken at all?

If you've been following my posts on this subject, I have no idea how you can possibly try to make such an excuse for Brussels Journal.

19 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:38:49am

4 Kilgore,

Isn't that a funny call to make? I have never heard anyone use the word "reactionary" as a positive before.

LOL

What do you want to be when you grow up, little Taki?

A reactionary, just like my pops.

20 nyc redneck  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:38:50am

"white ummah"
islamic terms and behavior.
dead end.

21 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:38:50am

re: #12 Sharmuta

Very well said, right on target.

22 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:39:32am
For now, the vehement Fascism(3) of Body Snatcher society is such that by merely mentioning the BNP I am subjecting this website to criticism and am placing myself on a variety of black lists and white lists maintained in some windowless cubicles by Pod apparatchiks no less fanatical than were the Stasi functionaries rifling through East German population’s letters and underpants [sic] in the basement of the Stasi Headquarters in the Berlin suburb of Lichtenfeld.

They've certainly mastered the victim ideology, haven't they?

23 gop_patriot  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:39:42am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Yikes!

Indeed. I don't want an 'ummah' of any kind, much less this kind. Outrageous.

24 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:40:01am

Heh. The slogan of BJ is "the voice of Conservatism in Europe." How ironic.

25 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:40:16am

re: #16 jaunte
Hi juante - I think fool is too kind a term for what he is: Nazi would seem to fit more closely.
I just can't believe the WJS still links to the BJ.

26 notutopia  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:40:23am

[Link: myrightword.blogspot.com...]

Short clip on Wilders

27 Ringo the Gringo  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:40:40am
The tribe I imagine is a sort of ethno-conservative and culturally reactionary white ummah stretching from New Zealand to Alaska

They can kiss my ass!

28 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:40:51am

re: #11 lifeofthemind

This is not done by the site owner but by some guest. The owner is responsible for the conduct of the guest but it may be recoverable. We can hope that the owner takes a look and takes action. Has he spoken at all?

It doesn't excuse what the "guest" said.

29 Sol Roth  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:41:20am

Body Snatchers? Pod people? Celtics? Norse? European Aboriginies? Pod apparatchiks? White ummah?

There's a definite neurosis associated with these types just waiting for another charismatic Collectivist to organize them. Look for him and for history to repeat itself.

30 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:41:25am

re: #11 lifeofthemind

There have been other posts at BJ by Takuan, I believe Charles has mentioned them before. There's a poem that goes:

"...and the worst are full of passionate intensity."

Certainly the rightosphere can't be so desperate for content that it continues to entertain this crap.

31 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:42:01am

Perhaps we can explain the reason not to engage in racial arguments in terms that the sophisticated Europeans can understand.

"It was worse than a crime, it was a blunder." -
Talleyrand on the murder of the Duc d’Enghien by Napoleon I.

32 theheat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:42:17am

WOW. Just... wow. This is the stuff of Klukker's wet dreams.We have bible thumping, Jew hating, a strong opposition to color... It's like a cake mix for crazy.

It's ironic those that like to tout so-called Christian principles use those beliefs to condemn others, then feel they're superior. Those European Klukkers and our domestic Klukkers love the hell out of all that scripture, any way they can twist it. And, boy, do they twist it.

33 Ning the Merciless  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:42:45am

I for one am thinking there has got to be a way to keep the Islamo-Culture at bay with only Our own Western Culture. I mean we are not the only acceptable culture by any means. Most cultures play nice except for Islamo-Fascist Culture. They make it a point to be the enemy of every culture that is not them. How childish.

34 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:42:54am

From the Brussels Journal article:


Are Jews a European race? There might be sincere and well-informed views that differ on this. No matter the answer, what sense does it make to exclude from the “we” a people that has lived in Europe for 2400 years, in great numbers so since having been brought to Rome as slaves after the Great Revolt’s defeat in 70 CE, and with a considerable mingling of the DNAs over the centuries? Not to mention the origin of the creed that’s inseparable from the “European Race,” Christianity.

The reason the great majority of Jews would not be in the Antipod community is not their race but their politics. There is a heavy statistical distribution of Jews on the political left, all the way to its extremes.

The Jewish tendency to want to repair the world runs counter to three principles I believe in, two of which all conservatives ought to believe in. First, the “repair” causes unintended damages worse than the flaw the repairers were trying to fix. Second, a conservative ought to be so busy with conserving what’s worth conserving that he can engage merely in tinkering with society’s edges but not in the wholesale remodeling that the majority of Jews seems to be fond of, from socialism to multiculturalism to Obama.

35 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:42:58am

re: #24 gclaghorn

Heh. The slogan of BJ is "the voice of Conservatism in Europe." How ironic.

We need to get a faux slogan, and use it relentlessly to swipe away the filth they put on the name "Conservatism"

"the voice of Atavism in Europe"
Others...let's get one and run with it.

36 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:43:12am

re: #12 Sharmuta

It seems to me the europeans never learned. The never embraced the ideology which gave rise to the people who freed them from fascism, but instead would rather fall back on what they know- blood and soil.

Ugly, disgusting, and the opposite of everything we in America hold dear.

I fear they'll never learn.

Hasn't this mentality been around for ages? It seems to me that those who rejected it, those who yearned for individual--as opposed to tribal--identities moved here since this nation's inception.

37 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:02am

My google-foo sucks today.

I have been looking for contact info for James Taranto. They need to get that festering sore off of their OpinionJournal Federation page.

Anyone else have any luck?

38 Nevergiveup  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:11am

Ex-Porn Star Quits School Cafeteria Job After Uproar

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Well that certainly sucks...urh..well you get what I mean?

39 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:17am

On comment 34, all three paragraphs should be in italics. That's all from the Brussels Journal article.

40 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:35am

re: #25 realwest

Yes, you're right. Nazi is right on the mark.
Blurring distinctions between race, color, and ideology is foolish, and leads right down the path that Europe has taken before.

41 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:36am

re: #22 Fat Jolly Penguin
Yes, they certainly have mastered it; even if they can't write it out very clearly.
It's as if they NEVER LEARNED from the ideology of the Nation that saved their lilly white asses from the Hitler era Nazis and are now in full recruiting mode for more of the same 1939 bullshit.
They are not stupid; they are willfully ignorant.

42 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:45am

re: #24 gclaghorn

Heh. The slogan of BJ is "the voice of Conservatism in Europe." How ironic.

I hate to sound like Obama, but that is not the "conservatism" I know.

43 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:44:47am

re: #11 lifeofthemind

The post has been up for a few days. Paul Belien is aware of it. He's posted similar stuff before but never this bad.

44 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:46:06am

re: #35 Joan

We need to get a faux slogan, and use it relentlessly to swipe away the filth they put on the name "Conservatism"

"the voice of Atavism in Europe"
Others...let's get one and run with it.

LOL! Slogan Contest time!

45 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:46:14am

re: #37 Syrah

Not yet; keep trying

Shun the voice of Atavism in Europe

46 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:46:21am

re: #32 theheat

"...a cake mix for crazy..."

That's a quotable!

47 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:46:40am

re: #42 Wyatt Earp

I hate to sound like Obama, but that is not the "conservatism" I know.

It is the Europe I know, though.

48 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:47:22am

re: #18 Charles

If you've been following my posts on this subject, I have no idea how you can possibly try to make such an excuse for Brussels Journal.

Perhaps I have not, my point is not a disagreement with the criticism of the content. I am by nature reluctant to break with people when there is hope of educating and reforming them. There are worse sins.

re: #28 gclaghorn

It doesn't excuse what the "guest" said.

Agreed.

49 FrogMarch  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:47:25am
The tribe I imagine is a sort of ethno-conservative and culturally reactionary white ummah stretching from New Zealand to Alaska,

WTH? I want to live in a color-blind society. Not interested in a 'ethno-conservative reactionary white-only from here to here... ' Reactionary Islam as a threat - it's not an ethnicity or a color. Defining as such is tired racism, plain and simple. Radical Islam is the violent portion of a religion- not a color.

The whole - let's purge and separate, is just so--- Palestinian.
or that guy who did those awful things in Germany. (Godwin approaching)

50 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:47:57am

re: #47 gclaghorn

It is the Europe I know, though.

Slogan contest! Slogan contest! let's get one and use it. Bludgeon the world with it until everyone sees what these carrion eaters really are.

51 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:48:55am

re: #48 lifeofthemind

Brussels journal also used to link to a BNP forum on the sidebar. They know what they're doing.

52 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:48:58am

Pardon while this Lizard Apparatchik walks across his windowless cubicle to the bathroom and vomits.

53 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:49:30am

re: #50 Joan

Slogan contest! Slogan contest! let's get one and use it. Bludgeon the world with it until everyone sees what these carrion eaters really are.

Welcome to Europe: Two World Wars, One Holocaust, and We Haven't Learned a Thing!

54 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:49:37am

I'm stumped. What does, "...assimilable , aboriginal members members of the European race also resident in Britian" mean?

55 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:49:42am

re: #48 lifeofthemind

Agreed.

They're entrenched.

56 yochanan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:49:55am

if the center can't hold in the struggle with islmo fascism then the extremes will try to answer it. and the center right now in euroland looks totally weak and powerless.

57 isiah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:50:07am

Us jews are not Europeans. My ancestors might have squatted in that continent for a time but it doesnt matter. I am American and refuse to identify with a group that caused so much pain to my people

58 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:50:09am

re: #54 opnion

I'm stumped. What does, "...assimilable , aboriginal members members of the European race also resident in Britian" mean?

Anglo-Saxons and Celts?

59 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:50:27am

re: #40 jaunte
Thanks juante - I'm just sick of this playing with language - it is what it is: national fascism. Period.
And they support the State of Israel, in my opinion, only so there's someplace they can ship all the European Jews to, rather than have to execute them all.
Nazi's, indeed.

60 yochanan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:50:38am

[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]

this story relates to what can happen if the center doesn't hold.

61 theheat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:50:43am

re: #42 Wyatt Earp

They're trying to relabel conservatism as racism, and act as though it was always the case. Actually, I can't think of anything more extreme than hating every group but your own. Hardly conservative.

"Oh, wait, I thought I was conservative."

62 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:51:14am

re: #58 MandyManners
Precisely.

63 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:51:35am

re: #36 MandyManners

Hasn't this mentality been around for ages? It seems to me that those who rejected it, those who yearned for individual--as opposed to tribal--identities moved here since this nation's inception.

Yes. It's always been around, until a highly Enlightened group of men established the world's most radical experiment. And that experiment has defied all of europe's expectations to become the greatest nation the world has ever known.

What is stunning to me is not just the tribalism expressed in this piece, but the desired expansion. There was another group that desired the expansion of the "perfect" race. The death and destruction they caused still causes the survivors pain to this day. Disgusting we would ever see it advocated again.

64 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:51:39am

re: #59 realwest

I guess that makes us both Pod people.

65 William Woody  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:51:43am

It doesn't surprise me in the least.

Most countries in the world--including most in Europe--were founded on racial and cultural boundaries, enforced by geographic boundaries. Conservatism in Europe means conserving these cultural boundaries which is presumed to be the end-point of societal evolution. The problem is that this sort of entrenchment of tradition prevents the Europeans from really learning from the past: if the tradition of tribalism failed in the past it was because tribalism was imperfectly implemented.

Hitler's purging of the Jews is the logical conclusion of the preservation of this tribal tradition.

It's also why most of Europe completely fails to understand Americans even while they try to work with Americans. Brussels Journal is interesting in that they repeatedly decry the failures of individualism over tribalism, even when it is evidently clear that the United States culture and tradition of respecting tribal boundaries while demanding tribal walls be torn down has allowed us to become an economic and military superpower while Europe declines and decays.

It's the fact that a Frenchman who moves to the United States is a French-American, while an American who moves to France will always be an American and never a hyphenated anything that makes America superior to France: we willingly accept and adopt to our culture elements that we see as superior, while the French reject anything that is foreign.

It is this acceptance which makes Dearborn far safer than the outskirts of Paris, and which makes Arab-Americans more likely to defend America while Arabs in France regularly burn hundreds of cars each night in Paris nearly without comment: Arab-Americans have a vested interest and have been accepted openly, while in France Arabs are third-class citizens. Excluded from the popular tribe, Arabs in France almost have no choice but to violently protest--all it takes is a leader who has an agenda beyond social and job equality to call for an uprising.

66 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:51:48am

re: #61 theheat

They're trying to relabel conservatism as racism, and act as though it was always the case. Actually, I can't think of anything more extreme than hating every group but your own. Hardly conservative.

"Oh, wait, I thought I was conservative."

Of course, some American Dems think conservatives are racists, too.

67 legalpad  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:51:49am

Am I crazy or have some of the European countries had unfair and unbalanced immigration policies for some time now, and now they are having the inevitable culture-clashes?

68 Erik The Red  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:52:31am

re: #38 Nevergiveup

google her name and you'll see why. All the mothers feel less than adequate.

69 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:52:41am

Why am I not surprised?

Aside from all the blathering racist pukedom that they serve up, if these idiots think that all Christians are white and that other Christians share their racist fantasies, they are living in a dream world.

70 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:52:47am

re: #66 Wyatt Earp

Of course, some American Dems think conservatives are racists, too.

Oh, like Robert Byrd? Yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned about his opinion on the matter.

71 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:53:04am

re: #43 Killgore Trout

The post has been up for a few days. Paul Belien is aware of it. He's posted similar stuff before but never this bad.

Sorry to hear that, not a site I regularly look at.
Why do people chase down rat holes that actually end up weakening the cause they claim to be on? Anti-Semitism and irrational cultism is a belief system that weakens western civilization and opens the door for Islamism. Nazis do not become good Christian Europeans they become jihadis.

72 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:53:24am

By the same author as From Meccania to Atlantis - Part 4½: Darkness in the Cranium, what could possibly be wack here?

I don't think this is Stormfront equivalent, but I don't read Stormfront to parse out the difference. There's no advocacy of violence here by Seiyo, is there? Or even claims of supremacy?

Seiyo makes the point that for many in the west, their culture is about, has the goal, of surrender. OK. And then the very next words go just that little too far: "... recover our disrupted ancestral culture." Earth to Seiyo - the culture you now want to conserve, is brand-new, not ancestral. That's where he joins Stormfront in wackworld.

73 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:54:27am

re: #58 MandyManners

Anglo-Saxons and Celts?

Must be, but they are anot actually aboriginal. As an example the Picts existed in Briton, before the Gallic Celts arrived. They were a rather dark , probably Indo race.
I am nit picking, but they are not exactly accurate.

74 Nevergiveup  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:54:59am

re: #68 Erik The Red

google her name and you'll see why. All the mothers feel less than adequate.

I saw. That's never been my thing, but I did notice!

75 experiencedtraveller  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:55:22am

I once ate some 'white ummah' whilst expeditioning in the upper Sudan.

It gave me terrific heartburn.

76 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:55:25am

re: #67 legalpad

Running a cradle-to-grave nanny state requires a lot of fresh labor and taxpayers. If they aren't coming from new generations of the locals, they have to come from immigration. Cutting immigration would mean cutting benefits to all, or requiring that families have more children to maintain the system.

77 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:55:55am
but without the negative baggage.

Delusional. As if nazism has no negative baggage!

78 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:57:55am

We're supposed to want a culturally reactionary white enema? Let me put my Wagner CD into the drive, cue up "The Ride of the Valkyries", and give the Hitler-Grüße!

/sarc ... but I DID put Die Walküre on ... somehow it seems appropriate for the thread

79 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:57:58am

re: #69 rightymouse

Why am I not surprised?

Aside from all the blathering racist pukedom that they serve up, if these idiots think that all Christians are white and that other Christians share their racist fantasies, they are living in a dream world.


There are more Christians in communist China than in the USA. Christians in Africa and Southeast Asia also in large numbers. Most of the world's Christians, the majority, are presently under varying degrees of persecution. We live in a bubble here, don't we.

80 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:00:03am

re: #79 Joan

There are more Christians in communist China than in the USA.

Say what?

81 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:00:17am

re: #64 jaunte
Well as long as I've got you and the other good people here (and especially Charles) in the same "pod", I'm very comfortable with that label.

82 experiencedtraveller  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:00:32am

re: #58 MandyManners

Anglo-Saxons and Celts?

And what about the Jutes? BJ hates Jutes?

83 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:00:34am

re: #73 opnion

Must be, but they are anot actually aboriginal. As an example the Picts existed in Briton, before the Gallic Celts arrived. They were a rather dark , probably Indo race.
I am nit picking, but they are not exactly accurate.

TH White in The Once and Future King hasd an elaborate exposition of waves of conquest pushing back early ettlers to the fringes of the British Isles. The earliest settlers dwindled to become the fae people.

84 Killian Bundy  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:00:41am

re: #37 Syrah

My google-foo sucks today.

I have been looking for contact info for James Taranto. They need to get that festering sore off of their OpinionJournal Federation page.

Anyone else have any luck?

/Help & Information Center

85 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:01:12am

re: #54 opnion

That means that Brits ae racially pure enough to be welcome in their Nazi party. If you read further you notice that Jews are not allowed to be considered racially European.

86 gop_patriot  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:01:37am

OT
re: #68 Erik The Red

google her name and you'll see why. All the mothers feel less than adequate.

Uh, no. That's not why. Take a look at her, sure. Gross. Her boobs are bigger than her head. If you're suggesting that other women are jealous of someone who looks like a deformed freak with too much makeup, and that's why they don't want her working around their children, you are not being reasonable. The woman performed sex acts on camera for a website. That's not someone that people want around their kids. If she was skinny and flat chested, I can guarantee you they'd feel the same way. It just would have taken them longer to find out, this woman is pretty obvious looking.

87 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:01:49am

Who else feels strongly inclined to register on that site and leave a few strongly-worded comments on that article?

88 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:02:16am

re: #82 experiencedtraveller

And what about the Jutes? BJ hates Jutes?

Maybe they are smoking hemp?

89 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:02:19am

re: #80 itellu3times

Well, it isn't surprising, since the population of China is huge. Now, you're gonna make me look up the actual fact source...I'll get started. Hmph

90 Killian Bundy  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:02:33am
91 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:02:37am

re: #65 William Woody
Truly excellent post!
I hope you comment out here more frequently in the future.

92 thesavagenation  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:02:53am

All I have to say is that by not stopping immigration into Western countries, whites are becoming a minority in their own homelands. Us whites, including the white Jews in Israel, are quickly losing our homelands to other groups of people who have more passion and willpower than the native whites. As we are replaced, our destiny will be in the hands of others. That isn't so bad if the people are groups that I tend to live around, East Asians and Indians. But what about in Europe, where it is an Islamic population who is gaining demographically?

93 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:07am

As I look at a map, a "white ummah stretching from New Zealand to Alaska" would be pretty wet, excepting the different islands of Polynesia.

The whites only disease he must have caught must impair ones sense of geography.

94 legalpad  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:10am

re: #76 jaunte

Running a cradle-to-grave nanny state requires a lot of fresh labor and taxpayers. If they aren't coming from new generations of the locals, they have to come from immigration. Cutting immigration would mean cutting benefits to all, or requiring that families have more children to maintain the system.

Yeah, except of course that eventually time will run out on their ponzi scheme society, and their they will all be, hating and fearing each other, desperately gathering in the only side they are permitted to join. Pay your way, or face Armageddon. No amount of bullshit will change this. Of course we all know this here. Too bad they didn't.

95 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:29am

re: #81 realwest

So far, the most effective counter to the ancient concept of tribalism, is the American ideal of the melting pot. Or pod, if you prefer.

96 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:33am

Pamela reports from the anti-Jihad conference...

Geert Wilders came closest to calling for an outright ban on Islam and he received tremendous applause from the crowd. The only speaker to specifically state apologetically that he believes the problem is "Islamo-fascism" versus Islam itself was Daniel Pipes.

What have we become?

97 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:33am

re: #37 Syrah

My google-foo sucks today.

I have been looking for contact info for James Taranto. They need to get that festering sore off of their OpinionJournal Federation page.

Anyone else have any luck?

Same as the last ten years, bottom of his Best column every day, opinionjournal@wsj.com.

98 gop_patriot  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:40am

re: #93 karmic_inquisitor

As I look at a map, a "white ummah stretching from New Zealand to Alaska" would be pretty wet, excepting the different islands of Polynesia.

The whites only disease he must have caught must impair ones sense of geography.

LOL!

99 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:43am

re: #92 thesavagenation

I don't think I like the tone of that comment.

100 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:03:50am

re: #79 Joan

There are more Christians in communist China than in the USA. Christians in Africa and Southeast Asia also in large numbers. Most of the world's Christians, the majority, are presently under varying degrees of persecution. We live in a bubble here, don't we.

Yes, Christians are under varying degrees of persecution/silencing all over the world. It's a conundrum. But I don't think we should all scurry under an umbrella that seeks to be as bad as or worse than those who would see us go away.

Christianity is being used here and I don't like it one bit.

101 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:04:13am

re: #83 lifeofthemind

TH White in The Once and Future King hasd an elaborate exposition of waves of conquest pushing back early ettlers to the fringes of the British Isles. The earliest settlers dwindled to become the fae people.


THe whole idea of leprechans has a grounding in the reputed aboriginal people of Ireland the firbogs.Legend has it that they never went away , but retreated to the forrested areas etc. & became magical.

102 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:04:19am

re: #92 thesavagenation


And your point is?

103 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:04:37am

re: #92 thesavagenation

All I have to say is that by not stopping immigration into Western countries, whites are becoming a minority in their own homelands. Us whites, including the white Jews in Israel, are quickly losing our homelands to other groups of people who have more passion and willpower than the native whites. As we are replaced, our destiny will be in the hands of others. That isn't so bad if the people are groups that I tend to live around, East Asians and Indians. But what about in Europe, where it is an Islamic population who is gaining demographically?

Racist.

104 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:04:40am
105 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:04:47am

re: #97 itellu3times

Same as the last ten years, bottom of his Best column every day, opinionjournal@wsj.com.

I will give it a shot. It looked too general.

Thanks.

106 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:05:02am

Pamela also sez...

Islam must be crushed if there is any hope of reform.


Yeesh.

107 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:05:08am

re: #65 William Woody

I regret that I have only one up-ding to give you for that post.

108 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:05:21am

re: #69 rightymouse
" if these idiots think that all Christians are white and that other Christians share their racist fantasies, they are living in a dream nightmare world."
Thought I'd fix that for you. Hope you don't mind, but these Nazi sonsofbitches are really inflating my BP now.

109 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:05:26am

re: #85 Killgore Trout

That means that Brits ae racially pure enough to be welcome in their Nazi party. If you read further you notice that Jews are not allowed to be considered racially European.

It gets back to the article jaunte found on Christian racism. They think the Bible was written for them.

Also- I still remember you saying these groups support Israel because in their minds, Israel is fascist like they are. I thought that was very insightful of you and I've only come to agree with that idea more. That's exactly what thy think, and they'll continue to use it as justification. Sick.

110 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:05:56am

re: #92 thesavagenation

Savage? Is that you?

111 Ojoe  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:06:04am

Even Sasquatch will not join this tribe.

Signed,

Sasquatch, primitive stinker.

112 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:06:11am

re: #73 opnion

Must be, but they are anot actually aboriginal. As an example the Picts existed in Briton, before the Gallic Celts arrived. They were a rather dark , probably Indo race.
I am nit picking, but they are not exactly accurate.

I could be wrong but, I have a feeling that the writer believes that history began with the spread of Anglo-Saxon (and, maybe Celtic) cultures.

113 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:06:24am

re: #96 Killgore Trout

The only speaker to specifically state apologetically that he believes the problem is "Islamo-fascism" versus Islam itself was Daniel Pipes.

I'm glad Pipes had the balls to do that.

114 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:06:30am

re: #58 MandyManners

Anglo-Saxons and Celts?

Celts, Mandy, gotta be us Celts!

Can I say just one thing in regard to the sweeping view of Europe as lost/never learns/etc ...

That is on the same level as some of my fellow Europeans blaming 'The americans' for everything, with no distinction.

I don't know how many of you remember the times of the Cold War, and when Communist Gemrany built a wall because so many were fleeing that country.
It has always seemed to me that because the best fled, thigns dragged on for so long to the bitter end there.
Its no surprise that Poland had their Solidarnosc much earlier that the wall coming down.
I think that its counterproductive in the fight against creeping sharia and jihadists to paint a whole continent with one broad brush, and thus to dispirit all those of us who do try to fight it in our communities.
Were we all to go, that would mean abandoning everything to the Islamists - and would that not be treason?
And would the mess to be cleared not be much much greater?

So please, be so kind and temper your judgement - Europe is not made up of either fascists of all persuasions and shades on the one hand and weak-kneed dhimmis on the other!

115 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:06:30am

re: #105 Syrah

I will give it a shot. It looked too general.

Thanks.

It used to go directly to him when the Best column was his whole deal, I expect it still does.

116 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:07:35am

re: #77 Sharmuta

Delusional. As if nazism has no negative baggage!

Ignore the fuhrer behind the curtain.

117 gop_patriot  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:07:46am

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Savage? Is that you?

Been here since 2006, 17 comments, lots of bad karma. Sockpuppet?

118 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:08:04am

re: #82 experiencedtraveller

And what about the Jutes? BJ hates Jutes?

I forgot the Jutes? Shame on me.

119 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:08:09am

Again- for anyone who missed it:

British Fascists and 'Christian' Racism

Highly insightful into the mentality of the euro-fascists.

120 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:08:14am

re: #100 rightymouse

Yes, Christians are under varying degrees of persecution/silencing all over the world. It's a conundrum. But I don't think we should all scurry under an umbrella that seeks to be as bad as or worse than those who would see us go away.

Christianity is being used here and I don't like it one bit.

No, I don't like that one bit, either. As you pointed out, and I was confirming your point, Christians are ethnically diverse.

121 Ojoe  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:08:18am

X

Sasquatch, his mark.

122 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:08:45am

re: #112 MandyManners

I could be wrong but, I have a feeling that the writer believes that history began with the spread of Anglo-Saxon (and, maybe Celtic) cultures.

You are not wrong.

123 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:09:26am

re: #113 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I wonder exactly how they plan to outlaw Islam. It's very disturbing to hear of that talk in Israel, they should know where that kind if thinking leads.

124 Erik The Red  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:09:49am

re: #86 gop_patriot

OT


Uh, no. That's not why. Take a look at her, sure. Gross. Her boobs are bigger than her head. If you're suggesting that other women are jealous of someone who looks like a deformed freak with too much makeup, and that's why they don't want her working around their children, you are not being reasonable. The woman performed sex acts on camera for a website. That's not someone that people want around their kids. If she was skinny and flat chested, I can guarantee you they'd feel the same way. It just would have taken them longer to find out, this woman is pretty obvious looking.


It was a throw away joke. But if she was performing in her job and and no educational contact with the kids who cares what she did in her previous job. Much like an ex con trying to make a honest living. We have gone to far with the pc crap.

125 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:09:51am

re: #92 thesavagenation

Kick the Ethiopian Jews out of Israel?

126 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:10:47am

re: #87 gclaghorn

It's pointless, I've tried in the past. Remember Paul is married to Alexandra Colen, a VB member who sometimes posts there as well.

127 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:11:00am

re: #76 jaunte

Running a cradle-to-grave nanny state requires a lot of fresh labor and taxpayers. If they aren't coming from new generations of the locals, they have to come from immigration. Cutting immigration would mean cutting benefits to all, or requiring that families have more children to maintain the system.

YEah well - its more to do with a socialist welfare state, where women can basically have children till the cows come ho,e because the staet (us taxpayers) pays for it, without ahving to do one day of honset work - and the immigrants are getting the same deal!
Here in the UK, now that times are getting hard, immigrants are already jumping the ship ...
Its not to do with having immigrants to do the work - its to do with giving away dosh to all who claim they need it because its their 'uman roights'!

128 theheat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:11:15am

re: #79 Joan

I know several people involved in programs like Bibles Across Russia, or Bibles Across [fill in the blank]. All the ones I've met involved in these programs seem to think if only the rest of the world was Christian, it would be purrrfect. I've met Pentecostals that believe their mission in life is to try to convert as many people as possible. They collect food, clothing, and assorted this-and-thats - then have big fundraisers to get the goods to needy nonbelievers, all the further their mission of conversion.

I find that a little misguided, also. Disturbing, really.

129 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:11:17am

re: #126 Thanos

It's pointless, I've tried in the past. Remember Paul is married to Alexandra Colen, a VB member who sometimes posts there as well.

I'm not really going to. I just said I felt "strongly inclined."

130 Ojoe  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:11:23am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

If you enforce the laws already written, it pretty much outlaws the bad parts of islam, & they can go on with calligraphy, onion domes covered in tile, and marching around a rock; I'm fine with that.

131 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:11:52am

Another great quote from Pamela...

It;s not only wbat you dteach but what you dont teach.


Edumacashun!

132 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:11:53am

re: #114 yma o hyd

Celts, Mandy, gotta be us Celts!

Can I say just one thing in regard to the sweeping view of Europe as lost/never learns/etc ...

That is on the same level as some of my fellow Europeans blaming 'The americans' for everything, with no distinction.

I don't know how many of you remember the times of the Cold War, and when Communist Gemrany built a wall because so many were fleeing that country.
It has always seemed to me that because the best fled, thigns dragged on for so long to the bitter end there.
Its no surprise that Poland had their Solidarnosc much earlier that the wall coming down.
I think that its counterproductive in the fight against creeping sharia and jihadists to paint a whole continent with one broad brush, and thus to dispirit all those of us who do try to fight it in our communities.
Were we all to go, that would mean abandoning everything to the Islamists - and would that not be treason?
And would the mess to be cleared not be much much greater?

So please, be so kind and temper your judgement - Europe is not made up of either fascists of all persuasions and shades on the one hand and weak-kneed dhimmis on the other!

I've never taken the POV that Europe is doomed. Please forgive me if I've given that impression.

133 nyc redneck  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:12:09am

i'm trying to get my mind around the slur, "idiot white pod"
some how i don't feel like one.

134 least  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:12:18am

re: #117 gop_patriot

Been here since 2006, 17 comments, lots of bad karma. Sockpuppet?


And author of "How To Lose Friends and Piss Off People"

135 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:12:38am

re: #108 realwest

" if these idiots think that all Christians are white and that other Christians share their racist fantasies, they are living in a dream nightmare world."
Thought I'd fix that for you. Hope you don't mind, but these Nazi sonsofbitches are really inflating my BP now.

It's grinding on my BP too.

How stupid to fight this battle of cultural ideology with racist ammo.

136 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:12:47am

re: #112 MandyManners

I could be wrong but, I have a feeling that the writer believes that history began with the spread of Anglo-Saxon (and, maybe Celtic) cultures.

Yeah but what he thinks of as modern Anglo-Saxon culture is the Enlightenment parliamentarian version of German volk tribalism and individualism mostly given up by the French post-Roman Empire, plus or minus British classism, though he seems more American than British. There just ain't nuthin ancient about it.

137 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:13:38am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Another great quote from Pamela...

Edumacashun!

NRITH! NIRTH! NIRTH!

138 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:14:12am

re: #120 Joan

No, I don't like that one bit, either. As you pointed out, and I was confirming your point, Christians are ethnically diverse.

Yes, Christians are ethnically diverse. It's something these racist purists who call themselves Christians need to keep in mind while spewing their crap.

139 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:14:14am

bbiaw

140 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:14:24am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

I wonder exactly how they plan to outlaw Islam. It's very disturbing to hear of that talk in Israel, they should know where that kind if thinking leads.

Yeah. The key to the solution lies within Islam, and we can't do a whole lot about it. "Moderate" Muslims (whatever that really means -- those faithful to the spiritual, rather than the politicized Imperial Ummah) will have to rip Islamism out, root and branch. Only they can do it.

141 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:14:48am

re: #92 thesavagenation
There is SO much that is WRONG about your post I don't know where to start. Truly. WTF is this "whites are becoming a minority in their own homelands"
WHICH white homelands?
The United States of America is not a White Homeland.
Nor, for that matter, is much of Europe. And Immigration has HELPED the USA become the greatest nation in the world. And the USA is the nation (with some help from smaller nations) which made it possible for Europe to be free. But instead of trying to model themselves after the USA, it would appear that this "White Tribalism" is gaining yet another foothold, from which will, no doubt, another Adolph Hitler arise.

142 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:14:58am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

I wonder exactly how they plan to outlaw Islam. It's very disturbing to hear of that talk in Israel, they should know where that kind if thinking leads.

You cannot successfully outlaw ideas. As we here all know Islam is as much ideas (ideology) as it is a religion.
However if all of the available intelligence tells you that there is a strain in Islam that wishes to act parasitical on the host country & then destroy it , what is the proper course of action?

143 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:15:06am

re: #127 yma o hyd

Yes, I think it's not a social issue that's isolated to Europe either. Immigrant labor is one of the factors in economic growth here, too, and people will migrate to wherever they can benefit (both from working and drawing state benefits.) Staying balanced is difficult, but the more benefits available for the non-working, the greater the abuse.

144 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:15:57am

re: #85 Killgore Trout

That means that Brits ae racially pure enough to be welcome in their Nazi party. If you read further you notice that Jews are not allowed to be considered racially European.

Heh.
Which Brits? Only those of Celtic or Anglo-Saxon origin, right?
Thats how I understand this 'writer' ...
Trouble is - there are loads of Britons of Indian or West-Indian origin - and they don't count.
Thats where this 'writer's' racism appears in full sight.
And when I remember the Gurkhas, who fought for Great Britain and its Kings and Queens, and who 'don't count' for this POS, then I'm getting really really angry!

145 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:16:24am

re: #95 jaunte
Nah, I've actually come to like and embrace the idea of The Melting Pot!

146 Ojoe  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:17:29am

re: #145 realwest

Melting pot = Hybrid vigor.

147 lawhawk  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:17:34am

re: #141 realwest

Indeed. The US became the great nation it is by taking in people from all over the planet. It wasn't always done smoothly or with open arms, but the nation is better for it.

Visual representation of where we've come from.

148 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:17:53am

re: #100 rightymouse
"Christianity is being used here and I don't like it one bit."
Amen to that righty!

149 Ojoe  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:18:02am

BBL

150 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:18:04am

re: #138 rightymouse

Yes, Christians are ethnically diverse. It's something these racist purists who call themselves Christians need to keep in mind while spewing their crap.

The original Christian, might not make the cut under their vision

151 least  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:18:43am

re: #133 nyc redneck

i. . . "idiot white pod" . . .


That 'minds me . . .

152 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:18:59am

re: #92 thesavagenation

ZomG!?! Teh SkY is Fallen! I might have to live in the same city as someone with [brown/black/olive/red/off-white/yellow] skin! Wut am I 2 do?

Zomg!

///

153 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:19:12am

re: #65 William Woody

Since I am so popular here today I shall be slightly contrarian to what is an excellent post. The rise of hyphenated American identities is a recent and divisive trend that over time is reducing the ability of immigrants to assimilate. For earlier generations the pressure to become "American" was intense. Remember the old couple in Casablanca practicing their English? Korean students still sit in classes with their dictionaries in their laps. The American, Free Market, ideal is conformity in the limited sphere of the public society but freedom to explore private culture through associations unregulated by the State. Islamism disturbs that arrangement because it continuously seeks to impose on both the state and other communities in a manner that is not done by any other group.

The French pushed to far in the assimilationist direction. Their expectation that the superior French culture would scrub out whatever native identities people had was bound to fail. Principally because it bred the cancer of hypocrisy, given the real racism that it could cover up. Practically it mirrors the historical practice of the Ummah that Bernard Lewis has described in eliminating the historical base of pre-Islamic society.

154 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:19:18am
155 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:19:26am

re: #112 MandyManners

I could be wrong but, I have a feeling that the writer believes that history began with the spread of Anglo-Saxon (and, maybe Celtic) cultures.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that writer only thinks of Anglo-Saxons.
Celts - naah, they're weird, like Aborigines ... all that singing and drinking ...

156 DistantThunder  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:20:13am

Who people and organization truly are eventually "leaks" out. They cannot indefinitely surpress nor hide their true agenda. Psychologically, it is not possible.

"When people tell you who they are, believe them." - Oprah

It's my one favorite quote of Oprah's - and she's right.

157 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:20:23am

re: #113 pre-Boomer Marine brat I too am glad - nay grateful - that Pipes had the balls to do that, but am horrified beyond belief that he was the ONLY ONE TO DO SO.

158 gop_patriot  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:21:29am

re: #124 Erik The Red

It was a throw away joke. But if she was performing in her job and and no educational contact with the kids who cares what she did in her previous job. Much like an ex con trying to make a honest living. We have gone to far with the pc crap.

Sorry, I guess I am just sick of men saying that every time a woman with a surgically enhanced chest (which I'm not against btw) has something negative said about her, that it's because all the other women are jealous. It's very, very condescending.

Btw, I don't think that (most) ex-cons should work around children either- nothing PC about it. Just common sense. I didn't say that the woman shouldn't be able to get a job anywhere. There are a zillion jobs in the world that have nothing to do with little kids. She chose her original profession, and put it on tape for posterity. Now she has to take the consequences of society's views on it. That's life!

Anyway, nothing personal, just my opinions. :) I'm heading out for lunch, hope you have a great day.

159 Catttt  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:21:48am

President-Elect Obama actually had me smiling the other day when he was talking about how his family will be getting a dog. He said he favored a shelter dog and that a lot of such dogs are "mutts like me."

I LOVED that. I'm a mutt. I closely identified with that comment. I actually grinned.

A huge number of Americans are mutts. In addition, America is to a large extent a stew of many peoples. You not only cannot separate out the constituent parts - you don't want to, because that is part of being American.

160 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:22:06am

re: #142 opnion

However if all of the available intelligence tells you that there is a strain in Islam that wishes to act parasitical on the host country & then destroy it , what is the proper course of action?

The radical Islamists should be watched like any other suspected criminals. The Brits know what goes on in their mosques, Chanel 4 has no problem catching Imams preaching about killing gays and Jews. The Brits just don't take action. These preachers could easily be arrested, jailed or deported.

161 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:22:19am

re: #2 Wyatt Earp

Despicable. The WSJ should shun them immediately!

They should have begun shunning them a long time ago.

162 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:22:25am

re: #153 lifeofthemind

The rise of hyphenated American identities is a recent and divisive trend that over time is reducing the ability of immigrants to assimilate.

Excuse me. I'm not disagreeing with you ... yet.

How is it divisive? Examples?

163 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:23:13am

re: #157 realwest

True. Makes one wonder why they invited him in the first place.

164 mean Gene  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:23:25am

He actually adopts the language of Islam?
A ''white umma?"
Amazing!

165 Erik The Red  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:23:28am

re: #158 gop_patriot

Fair enough enjoy lunch.

166 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:23:33am

re: #132 MandyManners

Aww - weren't you, Mandy - forgive me for also using a broad brush, just as i was admonishing people not to do so ...

Wasn't there someone who said something about splinters in brothers' eyes while overlooking the beam in one's own? I gotta keep reminding myself of that more often ...

167 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:23:35am

re: #160 Killgore Trout

Some of them have been arrested, deported etc, just not enough.

168 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:24:07am

re: #155 yma o hyd

The more I think about it, the more I believe that writer only thinks of Anglo-Saxons.
Celts - naah, they're weird, like Aborigines ... all that singing and drinking ...

And, that blue paint.

169 Catttt  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:24:27am

re: #147 lawhawk

Indeed. The US became the great nation it is by taking in people from all over the planet. It wasn't always done smoothly or with open arms, but the nation is better for it.

Visual representation of where we've come from.

That is an AWESOME graphic!

170 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:24:38am

re: #167 Jimmah

Yup, they need to get more aggressive and the mosques (and the Ummah) will get the message.

171 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:25:38am

The strength and beauty of western civilization is its willingness to steal anything that's of value from other civilizations. It's our openess, and willingness to adopt and adapt that makes us great, not insularity and tribally closed minds. We keep the beautiful and the true, and the things that work, the ugly, the broken, and the false falls by the wayside over time.

The neoprimitive white tribal nationalists think to beat the current enemy by becoming a closed society like them. It's so laughable it makes you want to cry.

172 MandyManners  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:25:47am

Gotta' go feed the bottomless pit. bbiab

173 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:25:53am

re: #150 opnion

The original Christian, might not make the cut under their vision

Exactly.
Nor would Jesus Himself, methinks ...

174 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:26:08am

92 The Savage Nation,
An awful lot of you Jews are Sephardic and look like A-rabs to a lot of us pure Aryan types.

175 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:26:08am

I just sent of a respectful and polite email to Opinion Journal requesting that they take a look at that racist article and remove the link to that abominable site.

176 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:26:59am

re: #148 realwest

"Christianity is being used here and I don't like it one bit."
Amen to that righty!

I'm going to head out now. Will leave with this.

177 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:27:08am

A comment from Atlas Shrugs...

This is insufficient. ALL Muslims must go.
...
Free peoples cannot be safe from Muslims and Islamic terrorism as long as they are permitted to commingle with us. They must be quarantined away from healthy societies and kept confined, with only one another for company, until they've outgrown their madness.


Are they talking about detention camps?

178 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:27:09am
179 DistantThunder  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:27:25am

PS. On these Blago tapes we learn that Rahm Emanuel is a vile, profane, manipulative, unethical, unprofessional @sshole.

That's who Rahm really is and it had to leak out.

180 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:27:27am

re: #150 opnion

The original Christian, might not make the cut under their vision

I suspect you are right.

181 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:28:13am

re: #114 yma o hyd
"Europe is not made up of either fascists of all persuasions and shades on the one hand and weak-kneed dhimmis on the other!"
Respectfully yma, I don't think anyone out here believes that. But it is beyond question that the fascists are gaining more and more strength in Europe and some of us feel it necessary to not only point that out, but to query as to why that is.
Why has not a "middle of the road" type of government party sprung up, taken roots and started to blossom? A party that rejects both fascism and dhimmitude. Why does it at least APPEAR that the extremes are the only voices in Europe?
And, speaking only for myself here, why is it that the idea of assimilation seems to be either forbidden or forgotten amongst so many European "leaders"?

182 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:28:21am

re: #104 Iron Fist

I don't think I can agree with you on that. There are some people and organizations that I refuse to allow myself to be identified with. And I don't exactly have the most rigorious standards on such things.

White supremisists are beyond the pale. I don't need allies so badly that I am willing to overlook such an egregiously wrong position.

Agreed. My post should be no more controversial than pointing out that we have all been out with a friend who was the worse for wear and said something wrong. We held them by the back of the neck and waved a finger before their nose and told them they were being an idiot. If it works great. I do not know this Paul Belien person. If he is not reachable then it is his loss. I do not apologize for wishing that error could be corrected.

183 DistantThunder  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:28:46am

re: #159 Cattt

President-Elect Obama actually had me smiling the other day when he was talking about how his family will be getting a dog. He said he favored a shelter dog and that a lot of such dogs are "mutts like me."

I LOVED that. I'm a mutt. I closely identified with that comment. I actually grinned.

A huge number of Americans are mutts. In addition, America is to a large extent a stew of many peoples. You not only cannot separate out the constituent parts - you don't want to, because that is part of being American.

He can be charming, but so are many crooks. Not officially saying that.

184 Erik The Red  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:28:49am

re: #174 Pastorius

92 The Savage Nation,
An awful lot of you Jews are Sephardic and look like A-rabs to a lot of us pure Aryan types.

What?

185 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:28:50am

re: #146 Ojoe

Melting pot = Hybrid vigor.

This month's PopSci this same guy (Making Glass in a Grill) smelts titanium from ore in a flowerpot with thermite, apparently it's not online yet. The flowerpot is the crucible, and does not survive. Just sayin', diversity is strength, but you can overdo the melting pot metaphor, or most anything else.

186 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:28:52am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

A comment from Atlas Shrugs...
Are they talking about detention camps?

Must be, of one variety or another.

187 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:29:03am

re: #170 Killgore Trout

One problem is the number of faux-moderates who have the ear of the government on such issues as 'community cohesion'. Their credibility has to be destroyed toute suite.

188 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:29:15am

re: #160 Killgore Trout

The radical Islamists should be watched like any other suspected criminals. The Brits know what goes on in their mosques, Chanel 4 has no problem catching Imams preaching about killing gays and Jews. The Brits just don't take action. These preachers could easily be arrested, jailed or deported.

'The Brits' would like to take action - its the NuLab government, under the unelected Gord, who prefers to do nothing.
And lets remind ourselves that they were voted in when Islamic Jihad was not something understood by the elites, never mind 'The Brits' on the streets ...

189 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:30:27am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

What I've found interesting about some of her recent work is on one hand she's called for the stoppage of muslim immigration, but then she also started a fund to raise money for a victim of an honor killing in Canada. But- by her own desire, that young woman would have been prevented from immigrating. Which one is it? She can't come to America or we should honor her because she's a victim of islamic misogyny? Can't have it both ways, pamela.

190 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:30:33am

re: #160 Killgore Trout

The radical Islamists should be watched like any other suspected criminals. The Brits know what goes on in their mosques, Chanel 4 has no problem catching Imams preaching about killing gays and Jews. The Brits just don't take action. These preachers could easily be arrested, jailed or deported.

Good point. There is a strong desire to be seen as respecting religion if it is exotic & to not look racist. Common sense suffers.
There is a mosque in Bridgeview Illinois, that was built by Muslims of moderation to have a place of worship & to school their children.
The Chicago Tribune repiorted an interview with one of the founders about how they were threatened & muscled out by terrorist supporting extremists.
About six months later Newsweek did a fawning pictoral about what a great place it is.
That is the issue with the girls playing basketball in Muslim garb

191 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:30:40am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

A comment from Atlas Shrugs...

Are they talking about detention camps?

What a piece of excrement that one turned out to be. Just gets worse by the day.

192 Catttt  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:30:42am

re: #183 DistantThunder

There is no point in saying that every time someone mentions him. I KNEW someone would, though. The mutt remark was classic American, and he is going to be the President - have a little respect.

193 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:31:09am

re: #168 MandyManners

And, that blue paint.

Indeedy!
And then all those weird story-tellings and stuff, never mind the very odd games they play as 'sport' ...
Aborigines. No doubt about it.

194 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:31:34am

re: #187 Jimmah

One problem is the number of faux-moderates who have the ear of the government on such issues as 'community cohesion'.

They will eventually discredit themselves. Islamic terrorism and violence will continue regardless of appeasement. Europe will figure this out sooner or later.

195 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:32:04am

re: #189 Sharmuta

Good point.

196 itellu3times  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:32:09am

re: #174 Pastorius

92 The Savage Nation,
An awful lot of you Jews are Sephardic and look like A-rabs to a lot of us pure Aryan types.

Meant as sarc? Sure, a lot of Jews are Sephardic and look like Arabs ... to the Iranians, the original Aryans. Then again a lot of Arabs, much less Jews, are about as pure Causasian (!?) as anyone in Europe. Say, aren't the Muslim Chechnians about as Caucasian as they come?

197 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:32:36am

re: #173 yma o hyd

Exactly.
Nor would Jesus Himself, methinks ...

I was not clear enough, I meant Jesus.

198 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:32:42am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

A comment from Atlas Shrugs...

Are they talking about detention camps?

That is just so sick, words fail me!

199 lifeofthemind  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:33:26am

re: #162 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Excuse me. I'm not disagreeing with you ... yet.

How is it divisive? Examples?

The movement to create hyphenated identities came in the 1970s, along with many other bad ideas. It helps the Democratic party that seeks to create a coalition of narrow grievance identity groups, ethnic, racial, religious, sexual or economic. The consequences of that form of politicking when coupled with a dependancy culture are at the moment all to obvious. More specific example would take time to come up with for a good argument which I cannot give the attention that it deserves at this time.

200 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:33:47am

re: #191 Jimmah

I think the Counter-Jihad movement has become hopelessly infected with genocidal racists. It's all over.

201 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:34:22am

This evil streak of tribal purism can be traced all the way back to Maurice Bardeche, and parts of this essay would fit right into "Nuremberg, the Promised Land" -- the seminal work of modern neofascism in Europe.

On our shores we have our own tribal purist/ demagogue populists, you find them running with the Paulians, lew Rockwell, and Pat Buchanan

202 BigMoo  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:34:30am

Is the 'Brussels Journal' now headquartered in Cor d'alene Idaho ? I thought they'd cleared all the neo-nazis out of that beautiful part of the country...

203 mean Gene  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:34:43am

Does this remind anyone else of the ''citadels'' that Thailand was trying to force all the non-Muslim Thais in the southern-most four provences?
What I recall about them was that the Thai's were UNARMED and had to come and go daily to work!
Basically sitting ducks.
Now, did any European country ever claim to want to be a ''melting pot'' as the USA did?

204 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:34:47am

re: #195 Killgore Trout

She's only sympathetic towards them once it's too late.

205 rightymouse  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:35:22am

re: #153 lifeofthemind

Since I am so popular here today I shall be slightly contrarian to what is an excellent post. The rise of hyphenated American identities is a recent and divisive trend that over time is reducing the ability of immigrants to assimilate. For earlier generations the pressure to become "American" was intense. Remember the old couple in Casablanca practicing their English? Korean students still sit in classes with their dictionaries in their laps. The American, Free Market, ideal is conformity in the limited sphere of the public society but freedom to explore private culture through associations unregulated by the State. Islamism disturbs that arrangement because it continuously seeks to impose on both the state and other communities in a manner that is not done by any other group.

The French pushed to far in the assimilationist direction. Their expectation that the superior French culture would scrub out whatever native identities people had was bound to fail. Principally because it bred the cancer of hypocrisy, given the real racism that it could cover up. Practically it mirrors the historical practice of the Ummah that Bernard Lewis has described in eliminating the historical base of pre-Islamic society.


This is why I like what Patrick Henry said - "Give me liberty or give me death". Covers all the bases and speaks to one of the most important precepts this country was created upon - liberty. It hasn't always been perfect, but we've always managed to use liberty as a shining beacon through the ages. Europe never even got to that stage so it's really no wonder they are having so much trouble ideologically.

206 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:36:01am

184 Erik the Red,
It seems some people are not understanding the sarcasm in my comment.

Savage Nation made a comment (#92) with which I didn't agree. Here is a portion of it:

Us whites, including the white Jews in Israel, are quickly losing our homelands to other groups of people who have more passion and willpower than the native whites.

My response was meant to remind him, in sarcastic manner, that a lot of Jews are dark-skinned.

I hope that clears it up.

207 BigMoo  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:36:11am

re: #205 rightymouse

This is why I like what Patrick Henry said - "Give me liberty or give me death". Covers all the bases and speaks to one of the most important precepts this country was created upon - liberty. It hasn't always been perfect, but we've always managed to use liberty as a shining beacon through the ages. Europe never even got to that stage so it's really no wonder they are having so much trouble ideologically.

VERY well said.

208 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:36:34am

re: #142 opnion
" if all of the available intelligence tells you that there is a strain in Islam that wishes to act parasitical on the host country & then destroy it , what is the proper course of action?" I suspect that if the goal of any "religion" or cult is to act parasitical on the host and cannot be peacefully turned away and learn to assimilate with the host country, then as with any other blood sucking parasite it must be destroyed.
But there's a LONG way to go between Islam and the Jihadist parasites.

209 Desert Dog  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:36:39am

re: #196 itellu3times

Meant as sarc? Sure, a lot of Jews are Sephardic and look like Arabs ... to the Iranians, the original Aryans. Then again a lot of Arabs, much less Jews, are about as pure Causasian (!?) as anyone in Europe. Say, aren't the Muslim Chechnians about as Caucasian as they come?

Add to that the actual melting pot taking place in the US and to an extent the UK. My kids are a mixture of various white "tribes" and filipinos...my sister married a guy of Mexican descent...I have interracial friends...it does not matter any more what your skin color or ethnic heritage is...aren't we all human beings?

210 BigMoo  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:39:09am

re: #209 Desert Dog

Add to that the actual melting pot taking place in the US and to an extent the UK. My kids are a mixture of various white "tribes" and filipinos...my sister married a guy of Mexican descent...I have interracial friends...it does not matter any more what your skin color or ethnic heritage is...aren't we all human beings?

Well said.
I ALWAYS coached my kids (when they were kids) that you don't judge a person by the color of the their skin, their choice of clothing, home or the car they drive...you wait until they open their mouths-then you'll know the quality of the indivdual.

211 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:39:49am

re: #92 thesavagenation

Race is the wrong way to look at this. It is a trap. Do not get yourself ensnared in it.

Race is not relevant to a person's character.

A Muslim, just as a Christian, can come from any ethnic background. Trying to sort people out by race to solve a religious conflict is a losing strategy from the get-go.

212 Erik The Red  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:39:55am

re: #206 Pastorius

No problem put the sarc tag next time.

213 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:40:22am

re: #194 Killgore Trout

To be honest, I think things have been improving over the last couple of years. People are better educated on Islam than they used to be - it's not so easy to pull the wool over the average persons eyes as it was just after 9/11. The failure of the case against Channel 4's Dispatches seemed to me like an indicator that a line has in some sense been drawn. Yet at the same time the majority of people in the UK have resisted the temptation of the racism option.

214 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:40:38am

I do take issue with the 'Ethnic stew" being the strength of America.
Maintaining some ethnic identity is not a bad thing. I always drin to St. Patrick over & over on 3/17.
However I see the strength as the ethnic "melting pot"
Shared values & a commitment to common goals are important. "Out of many,one"

215 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:40:43am

In followup to my comment at 206, I want to state that, in my opinion, Ethnic Nationalists like the VB believe that Israel is an Ethnic Nationalist state, and that is why they are supporting Israel.

But, Israel is not an ethnic state, in the racial sense. Judaism is a religion made up of people from many different races.

Additionally, Israel as a state, is not a religious nation. That is to say, one is not required to believe in God to be a citizen of Israel. However, Israel is a nation, like America, which is based upon ideas. And, those ideas are derived from Judaism.

I sincerely hope Jewish people in general never fall into the trap of aligning themselves with Ethnic Nationalists, because that trap will then be used to further the idea that Israel is an apartheid state.

216 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:40:51am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

A comment from Atlas Shrugs...

Are they talking about detention camps?

They are talking about something far worse.

217 yma o hyd  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:42:56am

re: #181 realwest

"Europe is not made up of either fascists of all persuasions and shades on the one hand and weak-kneed dhimmis on the other!"
Respectfully yma, I don't think anyone out here believes that. But it is beyond question that the fascists are gaining more and more strength in Europe and some of us feel it necessary to not only point that out, but to query as to why that is.
Why has not a "middle of the road" type of government party sprung up, taken roots and started to blossom? A party that rejects both fascism and dhimmitude. Why does it at least APPEAR that the extremes are the only voices in Europe?
And, speaking only for myself here, why is it that the idea of assimilation seems to be either forbidden or forgotten amongst so many European "leaders"?

Just a few observations:
Extremists are always more visible than the 'middle-of-the-road' people. Thus, there is a bias, simply because normality is - normal. Its expressed in the papers and in the comments thereof - not in extremist blogs like the one we are debating here.
Middle-of-the-road parties are the conservative parties in all European Countries. They did blossom and will blossom again - its the normal course in a democracy that people want to change their governments. Angela Merkel is blossoming in Germany, as is our own David Cameron, and even that mad Sarkozy. Only - they're normal, they're not extremists.
As for assimilation - the various European governments have been trying and bending over backwards to do just that. How do you 'assimilate' soemone who doesn't want to be assimilated? Or who wants to be dis-assimilated, as the various third-generation Muslims in m country? More money, more priviledges?
I confess that the wave of 'multi0kulti', propagated by the various moonbats in the leftist/neostalinist governments have done their best, for the kindest possible reasons, of course, to favour non-assimilation.
Thats something you can see in your LLL controlled big cities as well, its not something specific European.
Mind - it is a mess, I'm not denying that! But right-wing extremists are definitely not the norm here.

218 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:43:32am

White Jews of Israel
*vomit*

219 opnion  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:43:41am

re: #208 realwest

" if all of the available intelligence tells you that there is a strain in Islam that wishes to act parasitical on the host country & then destroy it , what is the proper course of action?" I suspect that if the goal of any "religion" or cult is to act parasitical on the host and cannot be peacefully turned away and learn to assimilate with the host country, then as with any other blood sucking parasite it must be destroyed.
But there's a LONG way to go between Islam and the Jihadist parasites.


THe issue then is how to seperate the two & then what to do.

220 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:44:16am

By all means lets pile on the little racist European bastards. But when we're through there's still the little problem of the Islamization of Europe. What worries me is that Charles will perform his mission too well. Is racism wrong? Of course. The problem is that anyone who wishes to try to preserve Western civilizaion (such as it is) from the Islamists can convincingly be branded a racist. In most European countries the Asian and African immigrants are predominantly Muslim. Its easy to conflate anti-Islamism for anti-black or anti-asian under those circumstances. If the neo-Nazis are put down it will be done to protect Islam, not Blacks and Asians, but the rationale will be to punish them as racists not as anti-Islamists. And that will only make it harder for groups that seek to protect us from Islamists for the "right reasons". This what happens when good people are passive and don't stand up for their rights, the bad people who aren't passive take up the cause.

221 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:45:16am

re: #200 Killgore Trout

I think the Counter-Jihad movement has become hopelessly infected with genocidal racists. It's all over.

You can almost hear the Jihadists laughing. "We didn't even have to do anything - they just shot themselves in the head!"

222 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:45:27am
223 rw in san diego  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:47:01am

re: #141 realwest

Bravo!

224 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:47:30am

re: #199 lifeofthemind

The movement to create hyphenated identities came in the 1970s...

IIRC, the concept -- (insert "old country")-American -- has been around MUCH longer. Perhaps the grammatical form came into more extensive use during the 70's. I don't remember.

My recollections from the 50's and 60's are of "x"-American being used as a badge of honor which cut in two directions -- acknowledging heritage, and acknowledging that we're all one. FYI, it was used primarily by 3rd generation Americans, grandchildren of immigrants, and beyond.

Yes, I will agree that current-day PC usage can be made to be divisive.

/I'm a dinosaur

225 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:47:50am

re: #215 Pastorius

I've been noticing the same trend for a while now. Many of Israel's supporters and opponents now agree that Israel is an apartheid state. A lot of these creeps support Israel because they want to establish their own version of an ethnic/religiously pure state of their own in Europe or the US. This is a very disturbing trend. If it continues it will be very bad for Israel in the long run. That's why I find Pamela's reports from the conference so disturbing.

226 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:51:05am

re: #220 rationalnationalist

Well they certainly aren't going to defeat it going about the way the "antijihad" people in Europe are. They go after the symbols, the perceptions, the people, instead of going after the ideology and the extremists.
Scarves aren't a problem, women's rights as individuals are. Mosques aren't a problem, what might be preached in them and what might be sold in the bookstore is. Islamic political groups are not a problem, but Islamist political groups are. They have allowed their fear to overcome their reason and thus will never be effective.

227 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:52:19am

re: #220 rationalnationalist

If the neo-Nazis are put down it will be done to protect Islam

The kindest thing I can say about that is ... it's bullshit.

228 realwest  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:53:02am

Well y'all I'm afraid I must go now - as interesting as this has all been.
And Bravo to Charles - we need no Facists in our Foxhole.
I hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

229 Rancher  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:56:49am

Right next to the most racists part of the article is an ad for Muslima.com The International Muslim matrimonial Site.

230 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 10:57:55am

re: #226 Thanos

Also, demography seems to be their overriding obsession. They are not interested in the cultural dynamics of muslims in western countries though - they just assume the miuslim population represents an ever-growing block of jihadists or jihad supporters on a mission to undermine western society.

231 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:06:32am

re: #230 Jimmah

Nor are they looking at the root causes of their problems- socialism.

Hard to alter the demographics if europeans cannot afford to support a large family due to the tax burden. The tax burden of socialism has created a need to import cheap labor. They undermine their own societies by clinging to poor economic policies. Much easier to scapegoat the "others" than look deeper into the root causes.

232 Macker  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:13:13am

Fellow Lizardoids, I believe this is irony: on that same page as this terrible article is this ad.

233 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:15:14am

re: #15 MandyManners

Contact us.

thanks!

234 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:24:30am

re: #220 rationalnationalist

If the neo-Nazis are put down it will be done to protect Islam, not Blacks and Asians, but the rationale will be to punish them as racists not as anti-Islamists. And that will only make it harder for groups that seek to protect us from Islamists for the "right reasons".

You're actually going to try to argue it's a bad idea to shun neo-Nazis, because it will make it harder for non-Nazis?

What a heap of disingenuous crap. And for your very first comment. Did you have an LGF account before this one?

235 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:27:46am

re: #220 rationalnationalist

What worries me is that Charles will perform his mission too well.

I don't even know what this means. How does one stand up for individual rights "too well"?

236 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:31:16am

I come from the 'good fences make good neighbors' school of thought regarding immigration, but the sentiments expressed in that article are vile and beneath contempt. "White ummah" indeed. Count me out.

237 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:40:20am

re: #234 Charles

Whoa. Calm down. I thought I was bemoaning the fact that it seems like the only groups willing to stand up to the Islamists in Europe are the neo-Nazi type groups. And that in our zeal to discredit them we play into the hands of those that would seek to discredit all anti-Islamists (anti-sharia-ists actually). I'm urging caution. What I'm afraid of is that Goverment action to outlaw these groups will be turned into an excuse to go after anti-Islamist groups who aren't racist. In other words, be careful what you wish for.

238 stevieray  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:42:36am

Crap... I always miss the most interesting threads.

239 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:43:10am

re: #237 rationalnationalist

I thought I was bemoaning the fact that it seems like the only groups willing to stand up to the Islamists in Europe are the neo-Nazi type groups. And that in our zeal to discredit them we play into the hands of those that would seek to discredit all anti-Islamists (anti-sharia-ists actually).

Absolute nonsense. What is "discrediting all anti-Islamists" right now is the willingness of far too many of them to jump into bed with fascist groups.

Again, did you have an account before this one?

240 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:48:21am

re: #237 rationalnationalist

We should be cautious in denouncing nazis? That's what the nazis would like us to do.

241 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:55:14am

Charles, to add to my comments. I see this as a real war and I believe that its better for our enemies to fight our enemies whenever possible than for us to have to do it ourselves. War is a very distasteful business all around and I don't disagree with your disgust at what I am suggesting. I'm just not as convinced as you are that standing up for principles at this time isn't going be counter-productive in the long term as much as it might make us feel righteous in the short term.

242 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 11:58:08am

re: #239 Charles

No I did not have an account before, but I've been reading you excellent site for years. Its not that I didn't want one, its just that I always seemed to miss the registration window.

243 William Woody  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:05:34pm

re: #153 lifeofthemind

First, thanks for the kind words. (*blush*)

... The rise of hyphenated American identities is a recent and divisive trend that over time is reducing the ability of immigrants to assimilate. For earlier generations the pressure to become "American" was intense. Remember the old couple in Casablanca practicing their English?


My wife in the past volunteered to teach English to immigrants and interest in learning English is still fairly intense. Unfortunately multiculturalism as it is taught today is attempting to reinforce European-style tribalism in various communities in America, and unfortunately some groups (such as a few Russian-American communities here in Southern California) have taken home the message that they don't have to play well with others. While the government has done everything they can here in California to bend over backwards for Mexican-American communities (including illegal immigrants from Mexico), simple economic pressure forces many illegal immigrants to assimilate sufficiently in order to get a job. (Simply put, you make more money if you speak English.)

So rather than see hyphenated American identities as a recent and divisive trend, I see it as a long-standing tradition: how many Dutch-American communities are there acting as tourist traps, like Solvang? Or how many larger towns have a China Town, a Little Tokyo, or a Little India providing local flavor and dining?

Multiculturalism in the United States works very well when, in exchange for honoring some fundamental principles--such as respect for other cultures and lifestyles and a respect for a common civic life--we honor, respect, and even admire those aspects of another culture (such as food, clothing and belief systems) which are different than ours. Where it fails is when we stop honoring or demanding other people honor those core fundamental principles of mutual respect.

Islamism disturbs that arrangement because it continuously seeks to impose on both the state and other communities in a manner that is not done by any other group.

Islamism disturbs that arrangement because in the United States it seeks an exemption to the principle of mutual respect. Despite the serious inroads Multiculturalism as tribalism has made in this country, most people in the United States still have the notion of "fairness". Say what you want about Islamism, but the core problem in the United States is that it isn't "fair": when one group gets to say or do something another group does not--such as Muslims rioting in protest over a cartoon--it strikes us as grossly unfair.

And for many people, this sort of "unfairness" is fundamentally childish.

I think it's that social pressure that causes most Muslims in the United States to reject Islamism: the lack of fairness is just childish.

I think it's also why we don't have a problem with Islam proselytizing in the United States, but are upset with the idea that converting away from Islam is punishable by death: Christians proselytize. But christians do not put their apostates to death.

The French pushed to far in the assimilationist direction. Their expectation that the superior French culture would scrub out whatever native identities people had was bound to fail. Principally because it bred the cancer of hypocrisy, given the real racism that it could cover up. Practically it mirrors the historical practice of the Ummah that Bernard Lewis has described in eliminating the historical base of pre-Islamic society.


But it's not just the French, though I originally picked on them. In Japan, you're either Japanese or Gaijin, even if you live in Japan. Similarly the Germans haven't exactly a history of cultural openness. And this is a historic reality rather than a recent development.

244 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:08:55pm

re: #241 rationalnationalist

I don't disagree with your disgust at what I am suggesting.

What are you suggesting?

245 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:14:45pm

re: #239 Charles

I think the reason why so many good people are "jumping in bed" with the racists is because their feel like there aren't any alternatives or at least any alternatives that they believe will be effective. I think they are angry and appalled at the prospect of becoming a dhimmi in their own country more than they are worried about what the neo-Nazi will do to their society. From their perspective they are choosing the lesser of two evils. Maybe marginalizing these racist groups will provide room for better people to organize groups more to our liking. I happen to think that it may not work out that way. That's all I'm saying.

246 mean Gene  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:16:35pm

re: #243 William Woody

WW, that's very well put.
Bruce Bawer certainly tried to express that in his book, "While Europe Slept."
But I think you did a better job than he did.
Europeans, according to Bruce, were so focused on the colorfulness and food and ''otherness'' of their immigrant cultures that they failed to see the huge difference in how those groups looked down at their own culture.
One of the biggest brakes on "IslamISM" steamrolling in the USA is the 2nd Amendment.
It's the same as comparing home invasion stats between here un the USA (where every potential home is an armed home) versus the UK (where virtually no home will be armed).
It isn't that the mental outlook isn't the same, it's simply that the response would be so different (bad) here.

247 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:16:55pm

re: #6 MandyManners

Wasn't Hitler a reactionary white boy?

I don't think so. In a book I'm reading, the author suggests that Hitler was part of an almost nondescript subculture in post WW I Germany that was ultra-nationalist. These nationalists "played along" with the new government but eventually formed their own party and slowly but surely, began taking over the government.

It's an interesting read. I'm not sure if it's still in print, but I've found that Strands Bookstore out of New York is a good resource for hard-to-find used books. (www.strandbooks.com/ )

Oh, the book is titled: The Gestapo, A History of Horror by Jacques Delarue (former resistence fighter).

248 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:20:35pm

There are alternatives to these idiots in Europe, to say otherwise is to disregard reality. To see who the alternatives are, you merely have to look for the nationalist parties that VB and others are trying to discredit and marginalize. They spend more time attacking the alternative organizations sometimes than they do with their theatrical Islamophobia.

249 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:21:21pm

I think he's heading towards "but we allied with Stalin" if you ask me.

250 stevieray  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:27:53pm

re: #247 eclectic infidel

I don't agree with calling Hitler a "nationalist", even though that's what he, his supporters, and its critics called their movement. He is actually a tribalist -- he didn't believe in the Germany nation, he primarily believed in the genetically pure German people. That's a tribe, not a nation.

251 lostlakehiker  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:30:17pm

Charles writes:

article that begins with a bizarre science fictional premise that “white Europeans” suffer from a disease only they can catch


Seiyo writes:

There will be theories ranging from lead contamination in our water supply to ubiquitous estrogen-mimicking chlorine by-products and other demasculinising chemicals decimating men’s sperm count and virility itself. But looking at it now, in 2008, it looks like a viral disease of the brain, affecting only white people.

(emphasis added.)

The author does not go on to suggest medical tests, blood work, calling in the CDC or anything of the sort. It has to be clear to any intelligent reader, and this would emphatically include our site host, that Seiyo is speaking metaphorically, and that he means a `meme infection', not an actual biological virus.

This sort of way of talking is nothing new. Just words later, our host writes that it's "sickening". And of course, we all understand that this doesn't mean that reading Seiyo's article will make us get aches and pains and a fever.

Seiyo is wrong, both practically and morally. But he's not in David Duke's camp. He's not in Hitler's camp. And neither is the Wall Street Journal. And opposition to wide-open immigration can be rational. Japan seems somehow to work as a society, even if they don't rank high in the list of culturally diverse nations. The Austro-Hungarian Empire didn't work as well, and its diversity was far lower than where Europe is going to be if current trends continue. The fates of India and Thailand and France can be instructive for those who look at how the size of Muslim minorities correlate with the rate at which hotels, schools, and so on come under attack.

The fate of the United States can be instructive when it comes to black and Hispanic populations. If Seiyo would look, he'd see that notwithstanding some unhappy crime numbers, these populations are a decided asset to the U.S.

252 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:33:42pm

re: #250 stevieray

I don't agree with calling Hitler a "nationalist", even though that's what he, his supporters, and its critics called their movement. He is actually a tribalist -- he didn't believe in the Germany nation, he primarily believed in the genetically pure German people. That's a tribe, not a nation.

You're right, that's probably more accurate, since Hitler and Co used nationalist ideals to further their racist agenda. Author J. Delarue did note that the 'nationalists' ran on a platform promoting the well-being of Germany in order to (as aforementioned) play along with contemporary politics & procedure. The reason I mentioned this in the first place was because I see a historical parallel - a disturbing one at that.

253 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:35:48pm

re: #248 Thanos

If there are legitimate alternatives to VB and their ilk that's great news, but they seem to be the most active. If the other groups truly are having problems competing with the racist groups, there must be a reason. Its not like any of these nationalist groups are favored by the ruling elite and the media, so the usual reasons don't seem to apply. Maybe in a post-Christian society, people gravitate to the most extreme positions because of the moral relativism they've been indoctrinated with. That would make an interesting discussion.

254 samsoncc  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:38:25pm

re: #239 Charles

I think you're wrong... If all the "fascist groups" were purged from the "anti-Islamist" no one would give them any more credit than they do now. People think it is "logocentric" to be "anti"-anything and it runs deep.

I hope that doesn't make me racist; defeatist, probably...

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:53:11pm

"The British National Party’s constitution defines BNP’s constituency as “indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain.”"

Huh. I am an indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celt, and probably have a bit of Norse in there somewhere, although not resident in Britain--I was at one point. Also a lot of Jew in there. Suspect that despite my love for my Irish heritage I am not 'assimilable'.

I sort of suspect that Obama is also not assimilable, despite his Anglo-Saxon roots. Is assimilable even a word?

256 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:53:16pm

re: #251 lostlakehiker

Charles writes:


(emphasis added.)

The author does not go on to suggest medical tests, blood work, calling in the CDC or anything of the sort. It has to be clear to any intelligent reader, and this would emphatically include our site host, that Seiyo is speaking metaphorically, and that he means a `meme infection', not an actual biological virus.

This sort of way of talking is nothing new. Just words later, our host writes that it's "sickening". And of course, we all understand that this doesn't mean that reading Seiyo's article will make us get aches and pains and a fever.

Seiyo is wrong, both practically and morally. But he's not in David Duke's camp. He's not in Hitler's camp. And neither is the Wall Street Journal. And opposition to wide-open immigration can be rational. Japan seems somehow to work as a society, even if they don't rank high in the list of culturally diverse nations. The Austro-Hungarian Empire didn't work as well, and its diversity was far lower than where Europe is going to be if current trends continue. The fates of India and Thailand and France can be instructive for those who look at how the size of Muslim minorities correlate with the rate at which hotels, schools, and so on come under attack.

The fate of the United States can be instructive when it comes to black and Hispanic populations. If Seiyo would look, he'd see that notwithstanding some unhappy crime numbers, these populations are a decided asset to the U.S.

He's definitely in Duke's camp. If you visit a few WN sites you might get an education into how often arguments of biological purity and allegories to disease come up. The point is that they look at the muslims as a cancerous disease in the continent of Europe, and it's classic method to dehumanize any opponent while preying on fears.

257 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:56:04pm

re: #253 rationalnationalist

No, it wouldn't be interesting because we've had that discussion a hundred times in previous VB threads.

So what you are saying is that Europe ought to look for leadership from the loudest, the most theatrical, and the most hysterical, and these parties exhibit all three tendencies.

258 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 12:58:22pm

re: #252 eclectic infidel
Fascism was a socialist movement that sold itself as putting the interests of the nation first. It was a socialist alternative to Communism which put the socialist ideology above the particular interests of a nation. Both were frauds of course, but fascism had much more popular appeal because it didn't require people to subjugate their perceived national self-interest to international groups. Fascism was defeated in WWII and made the world safe for international socialism. To the socialists, fascism was bad only because it was nationalist. In the 60 years since the end of WWII, socialist propagandists have managed to equate all nationalism with the evils of fascism. I'm a nationalist, but I'm not a socialist or a racist. Unfortunately, if one espouses any goals that might be shared with the neo-Nazi groups (ie. limited and selective immigration), one must be go out your way to denounce Nazis lest you be branded as one of them. Its especially sad that this must be done even on LFG where people should know better.

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:04:36pm

re: #92 thesavagenation

Us whites, including the white Jews in Israel, are quickly losing our homelands to other groups of people who have more passion and willpower than the native whites.

I beg your pardon? Who is 'white' Jew, and who is a 'not-white' Jew, and what possible difference can this make to klal Yisrael?

260 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:12:25pm

re: #257 Thanos

No, it wouldn't be interesting because we've had that discussion a hundred times in previous VB threads.

So what you are saying is that Europe ought to look for leadership from the loudest, the most theatrical, and the most hysterical, and these parties exhibit all three tendencies.

Oh, come on. I didn't say they "ought" to look for that kind of leadership, only that they apparently (to me) are doing so. I keep hearing people say there are all these other non-racist popular anti-Islamist political parties. What are their names and how many members do they have compared to the racist ones? How many elections have they ones? How many seats do they hold? I'm not being facetious, is there any place that has this information? I don't see it on LGF.

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:14:40pm

re: #196 itellu3times

Say, aren't the Muslim Chechnians about as Caucasian as they come?

So are the Bosnians, except for the actual mountain range ;)--I spent a while teaching in schools where we had a whole lot of Bosnian kids--they look like Russians. And frankly, a lot of Afghans are, to my American glance, awfully white folks. And a lot of them look remarkably, er, Jewish, to me.

The world, people, is complicated.

262 Green Helmet Guy  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:16:20pm

an excerpt from the article:

In contrast, I am an ex-Eastern European, half-Slav and half-Jew. My character-forming influences have come from a traditional Polish upbringing, from being a 3rd generation victim of Nazism and 2nd generation victim of Socialism, from American paleoconservatism, from pre-1968 France and pre-multiculti California, from pre-1850 Japan and from a long executive career that has taken me to many countries for prolonged periods. I live mainly in Japan and often look at the West from the Oriental angle. I am a lapsed Catholic and an incomplete practitioner of Zen. This is a C.V. quite deviant from the mean in Western or any other kind of society. So who am I that I should say, “we”?

I just don't know what to make of it...Brain overloading...exploding

263 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:19:11pm

re: #260 rationalnationalist

I'm not going to repeat the names, links, etc that I have a hundred times before. If you have intelligence and look around you can find them. If you aren't here to defend the facist parties, then why don't you form an alternative instead of argue for an anti-semite like Takuan here?

264 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:29:25pm

re: #260 rationalnationalist

You aren't seeing it because you aren't looking. You are camped on this long dead thread to defend Takuan's logic, now why is that?

I've put up names of groups before, you would find some "problem" with any of them I named, and dismiss them just as people dismiss fossil evidence in creationists threads. In Flanders there are other parties who are nationalist who are not VB, you being a nationalist should be able to name them for me correct?

265 lostlakehiker  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:31:24pm

re: #256 Thanos

The claim that "he's definitely in"...Duke's camp runs afoul of Seiyo's text:

It is demented to cling to Holocaust-denial views merely half a century after the Holocaust, when there are giant warehouses full of evidence, some Holocaust survivors and repentant perpetrators are still alive, and so are many of their children who learned the truth directly from their parents, and not from television documentaries. It is pitifully ludicrous to invoke the authority of Dr. David Duke, when the good Doctor holds a Kandidat Nauk degree from a sixth-rate Ukrainian college situated in a city where the word pogrom may well have been coined ...


Seiyo's in his own wrong-thinking camp. But he's not wrong on the historical factual question of whether or not there was a Holocaust, and he's not a fan of Duke.

266 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:34:05pm

re: #265 lostlakehiker

I didn't say he likes Duke, I said he come from the same camp/school of thought, etc. Have you seen his other anti-semitic articles at BJ? Why are you trying to defend this shithead dunce fearmonger?

267 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:35:36pm
268 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:37:07pm

re: #241 rationalnationalist

I'm just not as convinced as you are that standing up for principles at this time isn't going be counter-productive in the long term as much as it might make us feel righteous in the short term.

You could not be more wrong and have it completely backwards! Standing up for principles after aligning with nazis is not possible, because you're principles have already been compromised. And that's about as counter-productive in the long term as you can get.

You either take a principled stand against islamofascism because the ideology is rotten to the core, or you don't. You either have the principles to stand up for the rights of individuals or you don't. Both forms of fascism, islamo and neo-european, are the same at their roots. You either accept this or you don't.

And as for being a "rational nationalist", I don't think that you are.

269 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:37:15pm
270 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:39:44pm

Looks like we flushed out at least one fascist supporter.

271 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:40:48pm

re: #270 Charles

You didn't even give me a chance to ding him down! ;)

272 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:43:44pm

re: #270 Charles

Looks like we flushed out at least one fascist supporter.

Notice he still hasn't answered your question:

Again, did you have an account before this one?

273 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:44:02pm

re: #258 rationalnationalist

Unfortunately, if one espouses any goals that might be shared with the neo-Nazi groups (ie. limited and selective immigration), one must be go out your way to denounce Nazis lest you be branded as one of them. Its especially sad that this must be done even on LFG where people should know better.

It's not a burden to denounce nazis, so it's really not going out of our way.

274 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:44:52pm

re: #272 gclaghorn

First- that's not the same person. Second- Charles did get an answer.

275 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:45:17pm

re: #274 Sharmuta

First- that's not the same person. Second- Charles did get an answer.

I must have missed it.

276 gclaghorn  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:47:16pm

re: #274 Sharmuta

First- that's not the same person. Second- Charles did get an answer.

Thank you for correcting me!

277 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:48:20pm

re: #258 rationalnationalist

Unfortunately, if one espouses any goals that might be shared with the neo-Nazi groups (ie. limited and selective immigration), one must be go out your way to denounce Nazis lest you be branded as one of them. Its especially sad that this must be done even on LFG where people should know better.

Really? People should "know better" than to denounce fascists?

The problem is not having "goals that might be shared," as I'm sure you know. The problem is explicitly making alliances with groups that are fascist in nature.

You appear to be arguing in favor of that, because you want to have some bully boys around that aren't afraid to use violent methods.

278 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 1:51:47pm

re: #251 lostlakehiker

Seiyo is wrong, both practically and morally. But he's not in David Duke's camp.

You couldn't be more wrong. When David Duke went to Belgium to take part in a skinhead summit meeting (which included Nick Griffin of the BNP), his host for the weekend was a local council member of the Belgian Vlaams Belang party:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Brussels Journal is affiliated with the Vlaams Belang, and "Seiyo's" article explicitly praises the British National Party, another ally of David Duke's. How much closer do the connections have to be before you'd be willing to put them in the same camp?

279 Irish Rose  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:08:06pm
It’s sickening—and almost beyond belief that Brussels Journal, who are closely affiliated with the Vlaams Belang, would publish something so openly racist at a time when they’re under the microscope more than ever before, and their party has been rejected from participation in the anti-jihad conference now underway in Jerusalem.

Why should they hide, when they have mainstream anti-jihad blogs like Jihad Watch that are willing to overlook their eccentricities and give them a platform in the name of "diversity of opinion?"

280 least  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:08:45pm
Registered since: Nov 29, 2007 at 6:39 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

Dang!
Waits for over a year to comment and gets the stick with the first post.
Musta been some piece o'work.

281 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:09:24pm

Regarding bio references, this could have been written by the Baron, or Fjordman, or Taki Theocrapulous, or it could have been found on VNN or Stormfront:

Perhaps the time has come to give more attention to the existential AIDS that has disabled the immune system of the West. There is nothing intrinsically worse about Moroccans, Mexicans or Memphis blacks than there was in 1950. What has changed is the cultural immune system of the Euro-ethnics around the world. The Moroccan in 1950 did not live in Amsterdam, and the Mexican did not in Portland. They wouldn’t and couldn’t. The black was in Memphis then and now, but in 1950 he had the church if he was a good man, and long-term, harsh prison if he was not. Nowadays such institutions grate on the Zinnlandian sensibility.

Opportunistic infections do not penetrate but decaying organisms. Non-discrimination as the central organizing principle of Western society does to a body politic what AIDS does to a living body.


Taki sets the tone for the racialist crowd that skates at the bare edge of acceptability. He's also wrong on facts in this. There were Morrocans in Europe in the fifties, Mexicans in Portland, etc.

282 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:14:54pm

re: #258 rationalnationalist

I'm a nationalist, but I'm not a socialist or a racist.

I think you are already lost- you've decided nationalism is your trump card. It's not a worthy ideology.

This is why you don't really see American nationalism, because America was and is based on an ideology, not a nationality. We hold to the ideal of individual rights, that all are equal in the eyes of the law. We're not perfect at it, but we still hold it as our ideal and constantly strive towards that end.

What end does nationalism strive towards?

283 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:15:21pm

re: #281 Thanos

Regarding bio references, this could have been written by the Baron, or Fjordman, or Taki Theocrapulous, or it could have been found on VNN or Stormfront:


Taki sets the tone for the racialist crowd that skates at the bare edge of acceptability. He's also wrong on facts in this. There were Morrocans in Europe in the fifties, Mexicans in Portland, etc.

Notice the shout out to 'anarcho-capitalism' founder Murray Rothbard at the end, as well as a host of other so-called 'racialists.'

284 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:16:03pm

re: #277 Charles

re: #277 Charles

Really? People should "know better" than to denounce fascists?

What I said was that people should know better than to equate nationalism with racism. Do you disagree?

The problem is not having "goals that might be shared," as I'm sure you know. The problem is explicitly making alliances with groups that are fascist in nature.

You appear to be arguing in favor of that, because you want to have some bully boys around that aren't afraid to use violent methods.


I not advocating explicit alliances with these people. I would prefer to just get out of the way and let the two sides go at it and discredit each other in the public mind. If its done right both sides will be fatally damaged. I just don't think the right time to do it has come yet. Whether I want the bullies around or not is irrelevent. The're going to around anyway unless you advocate violence against them.

285 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:19:37pm

re: #284 rationalnationalist

What I said was that people should know better than to equate nationalism with racism. Do you disagree?

I do.

I just don't think the right time to do it has come yet.

So- we should denounce the nazis when? After they've tainted us by our silent endorsement? After it's too late and blood is flowing in the streets of europe? If not now, when? You've failed to learn the lessons of history, and I'm highly disturbed by you.

286 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:19:50pm

re: #284 rationalnationalist

These are your words:

...one must be go out your way to denounce Nazis lest you be branded as one of them. Its especially sad that this must be done even on LFG where people should know better.

You said nothing about "equating nationalism with racism."

I not advocating explicit alliances with these people.

No, you just want me to stop exposing their racist nature, so they can get about the dirty work for you.

287 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:20:14pm

re: #283 Charles

Notice the shout out to 'anarcho-capitalism' founder Murray Rothbard at the end, as well as a host of other so-called 'racialists.'

Yes, he circulates in the Buchanan / Paleolibertarian crowd. Maybe that pic of PB meeting with VB might give LL a clue.

288 guftafs  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:24:01pm

To
Daniel Bernard
General Manager
The Wall Street Journal Online


Dear Mr Bernard,

I would like to inform you that The Brussels Journal is advocating crude tribalism and racism as revealed here,

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I do not for a moment believe that you support sentiments of this kind and therefore would like to warn you against associating yourself with them in the future.

Respectfully,

289 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:26:43pm

re: #288 guftafs

Just to keep everything consistent, I removed the email address from your post. But thank you for sharing that.

290 aubrey  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:29:58pm

I'm not supportive of white separatism but I do sympathize with a few complaints that are made by some of the people who espouse a white Euro-Identity. That is, it's perfectly okay to have a Black caucus, or NAACP, or African American college fund, a Latino scholarship, American Indian, whatever - but any white or Anglo group is automatically evil, racist, supremacist, and strictly prohibited. It's socially and politically acceptable to wish to maintain "chocolate cities" yet if a white mayor said anything about a vanilla city, he would be immediately crucified and expunged from office. Ironically, this is still a racist position, as it assumes that whites are somehow above the idea of race, while every one else is expected or tooken for granted that they will identify with their ancestral group, and that's OK.
There is without a doubt a double standard that exists throughout American society and indeed throughout Europe that nonwhites are permitted the political leverage to identify, organize, and assert themselves through racial lines, whilst whites are not, and as long as that double standard remains, these groups will gain ground. And racial separatism isn't desirable no matter which race is the instigator.

291 guftafs  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:30:10pm

re: #289 Charles

Thnx.

292 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:34:26pm

re: #283 Charles

One other note, I pulled that from a random Takuan Seiyo article that was reprinted at Majority Rights, a rabid WN site, just as an illustration. It's not from the article in the post, it's to point out that "tribe diseased by foreign elements" theme is consistent in his and other racialist screeds.

293 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:37:11pm

re: #290 aubrey

Wrong. You conveniently forget the truckloads of rashes of shit that were unloaded on that Mayor after the "chocolate city" comments, you forget the tons of criticism Wright received because you have a prebiased view.

It's not ok for anyone.

294 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:37:37pm

re: #292 Thanos

One other note, I pulled that from a random Takuan Seiyo article that was reprinted at Majority Rights, a rabid WN site, just as an illustration. It's not from the article in the post, it's to point out that "tribe diseased by foreign elements" theme is consistent in his and other racialist screeds.

The followup article expresses his "surprise" to find that his article is attracting lots of positive attention from racist nutjobs. What a shock that must have been to him.

/sarcasm

295 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:42:23pm
296 swamprat  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:50:19pm

re: #295 taxfreekiller

global tribe-ism

297 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 2:58:56pm

re: #286 Charles

No, you'd just like me to stop exposing their racist nature, so they can get about the dirty work for you.


I think that the racists are politically useful in that they put a credible counter pressure on the Islamists. Thats all. If the politically pressure were to be removed before the Sharia adherents were stopped and their gains reversed I don't think the outcome would be good for anyone except pro-Islamists. I take your position to be that these considerations are irrelevent. I don't think my view fairly makes me a Nazi sympathizer or whatever else I've been accused of here today, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

298 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:04:15pm

re: #297 rationalnationalist

What would be a credible counter to islamists is individual rights, which is lacking in islamic cultures. But you're not interested in principles, only in removing muslims from your culture, so you have no problem cheering on the racists. That's deplorable.

299 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:07:48pm

Nationalism

1. national spirit or aspirations.
2. devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism.


Patriotism

–noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.

300 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:11:21pm

America's nationhood is built on a set of ideas which are articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

American's are rightly patriotic and nationalistic when they are appreciative of, and devoted to, those ideas.

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism.

There is something wrong with Ethnic Nationalsim, which is a brand of Nationalism built on ethnic tribes.

301 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:13:43pm

re: #297 rationalnationalist

I think that the racists are politically useful in that they put a credible counter pressure on the Islamists. Thats all. If the politically pressure were to be removed before the Sharia adherents were stopped and their gains reversed I don't think the outcome would be good for anyone except pro-Islamists. I take your position to be that these considerations are irrelevent. I don't think my view fairly makes me a Nazi sympathizer or whatever else I've been accused of here today, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Racists are politically useful and credible? In what universe is that? Because in this one, racists are marginalized and they're political poison. As they should be.

You're all over the map.

Racists and fascists are useful for two things only -- hatred and violence. Who are you trying to kid with this "political" double-talk?

302 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:15:06pm

re: #299 Pastorius

I do understand that, Pastorius. But when nationalism is held by a european, what is that nationalism based on other than nationality? In America, Canada, Australia, etc.- countries formed through immigration where there isn't a singular nationality such as you find in other countries- nationalism or patriotism is based on ideals. So I have to disagree with "rationalnationalist" because I don't believe they understand the difference, though we're being told otherwise. I've seen nothing to suggest I'm incorrect.

303 guftafs  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:19:00pm

re: #294 Charles

Someone interested in the darker recesses of the human mind should write a treatise on the pathology of the psyches of these guys. All the faking before others must ultimately become second nature to them ...

/shudder

304 Salamantis  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:19:18pm

Bringing Nazis into the foxhole with you ensures that scads of decent people will not join you there.

And you never know when they're going to turn their guns on you; you just know that eventually, they will.

305 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:22:14pm

Sharmuta,
You said: ... when nationalism is held by a european, what is that nationalism based on other than nationality?

I said: I think you meant to say, what is that nationalism based upon, other than ethnicity.

Yes, often European nationalism is directly tied to ethnicity.

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:22:20pm

re: #297 rationalnationalist

I think that the racists are politically useful in that they put a credible counter pressure on the Islamists. Thats all. If the politically pressure were to be removed before the Sharia adherents were stopped and their gains reversed I don't think the outcome would be good for anyone except pro-Islamists. I take your position to be that these considerations are irrelevent.

I don't know about Charles, but my position is that these considerations are immoral.

307 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:23:38pm

re: #297 rationalnationalist

I think that the racists are politically useful in that they put a credible counter pressure on the Islamists


As Hermione said: "Wot an Idiot".

The racists are USEFULL for CAIR, MPACUK and the other Islamist political wings screaming Islamophobia. That's all the nazis are useful for. Do you really think their hysteria, hyperbole and theater is really accomplishing anything? If so please provide an instance.
While they are crying wolf, the real war is going on. Here, in America with the HLF trial. Here in America with the terrorists on trial. There, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Israel, Iraq and other places where the true and the brave are really actually doing something useful against Islamist terror and Jihad.

308 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:24:12pm

I am willing to listen- if someone could show me an example of european nationalism that's not based on ethnicity but rather on ideals, I'd like to see it.

309 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:24:13pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

Good answer, and it is an important distinction. I remember people used to say back in the day, "My country right or wrong." Far better "Truth, Justice and the American Way," which is just as you describe it, an ideal of liberty and justice for all individuals.

310 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:25:35pm

re: #305 Pastorius

Yes- thank you for the clarification.

311 Joan  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:25:43pm

re: #308 Sharmuta

I am willing to listen- if someone could show me an example of european nationalism that's not based on ethnicity but rather on ideals, I'd like to see it.

France. Jacobins. First communards. bleah

312 Pastorius  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:29:17pm

Sharmuta,
My father is an American who has lived in the UK for 40 years. He is, I believe, an example of a person who loves the idea of Britain. I don't think he is a racist.

However, it could be that he accepts Britain as an idea precisely because he is an American.

:)

But then, it also seems like my mother loves the idea of Britain, and does not believe the ethnicity is an absolutely necessary component.

I guess I couldn't know. I can't see into their hearts. I can only go by the way they act.

313 stevieray  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:40:15pm

re: #308 Sharmuta

I am willing to listen- if someone could show me an example of european nationalism that's not based on ethnicity but rather on ideals, I'd like to see it.

If I recall correctly, the Netherlands was such a place for centuries -- they had quite a few ethnic and cultural minorities living peacefully side by side, and all were considered Dutch. They were unified by a belief in religious freedom and free trade.

That Netherlands, of course, is on its deathbed... killed by socialism (and its accompanying welfare state) and recent immigrants *ahem* who will not live in peace with others.

314 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:42:24pm

re: #312 Pastorius

You'll forgive me if I view the UK slightly differently than the remainder of europe in that they have a long tradition of supporting the rule of law and striving for the rights of "Englishmen". It's quite possible the separation from the main body of the continent has lent itself to this. Very much like America, they have not been perfect, but have strived for ideals.

315 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:51:36pm
316 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:55:10pm

re: #313 stevieray

Maybe due in part to the republic that the Netherlands once was. A refuge for the persecuted of europe for quite some time. I think perhaps their love for being tolerant has had unintended consequences. One should not be so tolerant that it allows for that which should not be tolerated- such as the infringing upon of the rights of others.

317 Render  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:55:55pm

For this I return from the underground?

"rationalnationalist" is a Stormfronter.

[Link: www.google.com...]

But that should have been obvious without a Google search. The stench comes right through the Internet.

EXTREME
PREJUDICE,
R

318 stevieray  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 3:58:18pm

re: #317 Render

Howdy, stranger.

319 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:04:32pm

re: #306 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know about Charles, but my position is that these considerations are immoral.


I respect your position and may even agree with it. Do you think that the West was wrong to use similarly immoral tactics during the Cold War? I think it was justified, but I also think that we were tarnished by it.

320 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:09:23pm

re: #319 rationalnationalist

So why are you posting here instead of Stormfront tonight?

321 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:10:47pm

Hey R. good to see you. I like talking to them a bit beforehand so we can pull any fellow hikers out.

322 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:12:12pm

re: #317 Render
Wow, thats not me. I should have done a google search first.

Hey, Charles, can I change my name?

323 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:12:58pm

re: #319 rationalnationalist

I respect your position and may even agree with it.

I don't see how that's possible because you've already stated that racists are politically useful, so how can you agree it's immoral?

Do you think that the West was wrong to use similarly immoral tactics during the Cold War? I think it was justified, but I also think that we were tarnished by it.

What are you talking about?

324 lostlakehiker  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:14:16pm

re: #266 Thanos

I didn't say he likes Duke, I said he come from the same camp/school of thought, etc. Have you seen his other anti-semitic articles at BJ? Why are you trying to defend this shithead dunce fearmonger?

I haven't seen his other articles. I'm not defending his thesis. I'm disputing your logic. If A says B is a pooh-pooh head because B said C, and if B is a pooh-pooh head but didn't say C, I can agree with A about B being a pooh-pooh head while disagreeing about whether B said C.

Seiyo did not, with his own words, declare himself in Duke's camp. Quite the opposite. Now Seiyo and Duke are both far right. But the far right includes rabidly anti-semitic elements, such as Duke, [here I go also using the sickness metaphor], and then there are folk such as Seiyo who won't drink all that koolaid.

It's all about being meticulous, and leveling only accurate and well substantiated charges. It's not accurate to say that Seiyo is just another antisemite of the same stripe as Duke, and when you write that he's in Duke's camp, you give the impression that the article declares itself against Jews with the passion and malice of an Ahmadinejad or a Duke. It doesn't.

It seems unlikely that Seiyo would adopt contradictory positions in this post from whatever he may have written at another time. I expect, without having read all his work, (and without wishing to), that he regrets/bemoans/condemns the fact that so many Jews have been on the left, politically, while honoring others. Seiyo writes:

But to falsify history, to engage in a blanket smear of an ancient people that constitutes 0.25% of the world’s population but has given the world not only Jesus but also 178 Nobel Prize winners and many of its best doctors, most illustrious artists and seminal conservative thinkers(5) –– that is evil.

That isn't your typical Duke-head statement. This guy is not a hardcore antisemite. And with that, he's just flat not in Duke's camp. Like I said, he's in his own wrong-headed camp, wrong on other matters. Wrong on the issue of what blacks and Hispanics contribute to the U.S., for instance.

325 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:15:26pm

re: #322 rationalnationalist

Fascinating your positions so closely mirror that of a stormfronter. I think that should bother you more than having the same nic as someone else. If that is indeed someone else.

326 guftafs  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:15:47pm

re: #322 rationalnationalist

Wow, thats not me. I should have done a google search first.

Hey, Charles, can I change my name?

Wow, you must be mortified. Yep, first thing to do when choosing a nick: See if any stormfronter got there before you ...

/you can stop pretending now

327 Render  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:16:25pm

Oh please...

[Link: www.stormfront.org...]

Same points, same discussions, same old feces.

GO
AWAY,
R

328 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:20:26pm

re: #327 Render

Great to see you posting again, you were missed.

329 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:21:35pm

re: #324 lostlakehiker

Yeah it is accurate to label Takuan as an anti semite. Just because he uses $1.50 words where a nickle word would suffice doesn't make him not so.

Let's see what they have in common:

Both like Brussels journal
Both like VB
Both like BNP
Both make anti semitic statements
Both like the Paulosphere
Both get reprinted and quoted by VNN, VDARE, and Stormfront
etc.

I can substantiate any of the above.

330 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:22:49pm

re: #321 Thanos

Not only that, but there is some benefit in allowing them to air their "rationality" that in the future those of a similar ilk will be better spotted. Not all Lizards are as able to spot this trash as you, Render, Charles and others.

331 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:25:28pm

re: #323 Sharmuta

What are you talking about?


The US supported a lot of terrible dictators during the Cold War to prevent their countries from falling to the communists. Some of the people of those countries were none too pleased with the US for doing so. In most cases their fate under the communists would probably have been much worse (North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc), but its impossible to argue the propriety to doing bad things to some people to prevent worse things from happening to even more people. Its all wrong, but not morally equivalent.

332 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:26:17pm

re: #331 rationalnationalist

"But we allied with Stalin!"

I knew it was going to get there.

333 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:29:24pm

re: #331 rationalnationalist

So you're trying to use the containment of communism to justify your support of fascists. Disgusting.

334 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:34:39pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Not only is it disgusting, its an intellectually vapid argument. This is a different time, and we are facing a different enemy. There is no 'one size fits all' template for defending your country.

335 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:34:40pm

to paraphrase the current party line across the fascist groups

"ja, der visible jodenhaat ist nein gut, ve hav to hide it ..."

Like MPACUK and CAIR they instead attack "Zionism" if they don't come out and say "We support Israel". We get it. I even know about the several schisms in Europe and the US in the WN groups. It's the outright racists vs. the racialists as you try to creep back towards credibility and acceptance. It's just not going to fly here.

336 least  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:41:39pm

re: #297 rationalnationalist

I think that the racists are politically useful in that they put a credible counter pressure on the Islamists. Thats all.

That is such a foul, "ends justify the means", passel o' crap.
That's the sort of attitude that must be squelched as it arises.

I don't think

Well there's your problem! [ sorry, couldn't resist ]

. . . everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But not everyone is willing to reap what they sow - and they'll use whatever scapegoat they can find to mask their foulness.

337 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:42:46pm

Hey, look, Taki Theocrapulous wrote the forward for Koen Dillen's new book, imagine that.

[Link: www.uitgeverijegmont.be...]

338 Irish Rose  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:50:20pm

re: #327 Render

Oh please...

[Link: www.stormfront.org...]

Same points, same discussions, same old feces.

GO
AWAY,
R


Nice to see you again Render, you've been missed.

339 Irish Rose  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:54:18pm

It's time for the Old Timey Gospel Hour over at Stormfront.org, in case anyones' interested.

340 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:56:27pm

What an utterly immature, disrespectful bunch of people you are. But I guess Charles sets the tone...

341 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:57:40pm

re: #340 rationalnationalist

We should really be ashamed of ourselves for not respecting nazis. You got us there.

Not.

342 guftafs  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:59:10pm

re: #340 rationalnationalist

:p *bleh*

343 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:59:27pm

re: #340 rationalnationalist

Yes, it's the lizard master and his mind control. None of us are individuals here, we are just sheeples marching to our doom. Got anything else before you head back to stormfront?

344 Irish Rose  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 4:59:29pm

re: #340 rationalnationalist

What an utterly immature, disrespectful bunch of people you are. But I guess Charles sets the tone...

Sorry, but if you're going to post on this thread with a nic that is used over at Stormfront, your motives and identity are going to be called into question.

345 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:01:02pm

re: #344 Irish Rose

Sorry, but if you're going to post on this thread with a nic that is used over at Stormfront, your motives and identity are going to be called into question.

and especially when he argues with the same words a stormfronter would use.

346 Salamantis  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:03:33pm

re: #345 Thanos

and especially when he argues with the same words a stormfronter would use.

Don't you mean with the same words that a stormfronter with the very same nick IS using?

347 guftafs  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:06:19pm

re: #340 rationalnationalist

"Don't go! There is so much we need to talk about still!"

348 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:13:12pm

That may not be the same person at Stormfront. Here's another 'rationalnationalist' at YouTube:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

349 NY Nana  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:15:20pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Sharm,

I saw enough of it's crap. If I said what I wanted to, it would be [deleted].

You guys have done a great job. The word 'nazi' has a very special meaning to me, and I do not use it very often, but you and the lizards have got it right.

Makes me wonder just what kind of parenting it got; shit like that does not come out without a family history...

350 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:18:06pm

re: #312 Pastorius

Sharmuta,
My father is an American who has lived in the UK for 40 years. He is, I believe, an example of a person who loves the idea of Britain. I don't think he is a racist.

However, it could be that he accepts Britain as an idea precisely because he is an American.

:)

But then, it also seems like my mother loves the idea of Britain, and does not believe the ethnicity is an absolutely necessary component.

I guess I couldn't know. I can't see into their hearts. I can only go by the way they act.

You're right to do so. The great majority of the people that make up the Uk are not racist and are deeply opposed to it. This used to be a racist nation though, there is no doubt about that; as a result you will unfortunately find that the older generations tend to be more racist than the newer ones. You also tend to get more racists among the working class, although in truth that is the wrong term. It's a subset of the working class that has embraced a bitter, self-defeating culture of self imposed ignorance, dependecy, blame and victimhood.

351 SteveRogers  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:23:52pm

re: #348 Charles

That may not be the same person at Stormfront. Here's another 'rationalnationalist' at YouTube:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Apparently, that's a popular name among fascists.
As if somehow the word "rational" would make their irrational racist agenda more palatable.
Still smells like the same old neo-nazi crap!

352 Irish Rose  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:24:04pm

Open registration night, Charles?

353 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:36:49pm

re: #351 SteveRogers

The fascists co-opted the term Nationalist like socialists co-opted Liberal. I'd love for there to be a movement among American conservatives to take the language back. I cringe everytime I hear a conservative call a socialist a liberal and then wonder why they're in favor of illiberal agendas.

354 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:39:15pm

re: #353 rationalnationalist

We'd love for there to be a movement among europeans that strived for individual rights instead of blood and soil. Personally, I could care less what a racist, fascist apologist like you thinks of Americans and our terminology.

355 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:52:24pm

re: #348 Charles

Yeah, I saw that guy a bit ago. He might be different

356 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:53:35pm

The spirit of European Nationalism, as rendered by Slovenian musical pranksters Laibach.

357 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:56:01pm

From Urban Dictionary:
Sharmuta
whore, skank or slat in Arabic (and also in Hebrew slang)
a woman who sleeps with..well almost everyone
(not necessarily for something in exchange)

Were you going for accuracy or irony?

358 Lynn B.  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:57:16pm

re: #355 Thanos

Yeah, I saw that guy a bit ago. He might be different

And that one (the You Tube guy) appears to be a Democrat apologist, Obama supporter and Huffington Post commenter spouting a bunch of nonsense about "wingnuts" and "neocons."

/been lurking around this thread and haven't had time to follow most of it but did notice this...

359 Lynn B.  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:59:14pm

re: #357 rationalnationalist

Very rational.

Not to mention classy.

/

360 jaunte  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 5:59:15pm

re: #357 rationalnationalist

I see you haven't run out of bad ideas yet.

361 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:01:26pm

Musta struck a nerve.

362 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:01:57pm

re: #357 rationalnationalist

I hope you were going for 'pathetic asshole who can't hold up an argument' with that comment because that's what you got.

363 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:04:27pm

re: #361 Sharmuta

Musta struck a nerve.

Its not that you strike a nerve Sharm, its that you jump up and down on it till they scream for mercy or go stark raving bonkers. That one seems to be going the bonkers route.

364 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:05:43pm

re: #357 rationalnationalist

From Urban Dictionary:
Sharmuta
whore, skank or slat in Arabic (and also in Hebrew slang)
a woman who sleeps with..well almost everyone
(not necessarily for something in exchange)

Were you going for accuracy or irony?

You lose when you do this.

Just sayin'.

365 Sharmuta  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:07:13pm

re: #363 Syrah

That one has shown all day it's positions are not worthy of any sort of respect by decent people.

366 Syrah  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:12:46pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

That one has shown all day it's positions are not worthy of any sort of respect by decent people.

I don't think it will improve. It seems pretty set in its ways.

It has lasted longer than I expected. I am pretty sure it as angling for the stick.

367 rationalnationalist  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:20:26pm

re: #364 Charles

re: #364 Charles

You lose when you do this.

Just sayin'.

Aww crap. Forgot the smiley.

368 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:28:30pm

And with that, I bid you adieu.

369 Aye Pod  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 6:33:56pm
370 least  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 7:40:54pm

re: #366 Syrah

. . . I am pretty sure it as angling for the stick.

So many just can't not resist one last push.
Well, its aim was true.

371 ReneeJoy  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 7:47:21pm

re: #368 Charles

And with that, I bid you adieu.

That's what I love about you Charles ... you're so polite. I would have said something along the lines of "Don't let the door hit you in the arse."

I've found that the people who DEMAND my respect are the last ones to get it.

372 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:04:09pm

re: #358 Lynn B.

In reality it could be same guy. The WN's will play from either end of any political spectrum to suit their needs.

373 Athos  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 9:43:49pm

re: #363 Syrah

Its not that you strike a nerve Sharm, its that you jump up and down on it till they scream for mercy or go stark raving bonkers. That one seems to be going the bonkers route.

In catching up on the thread, it seems as if this one was likely well down the bonkers route before even registering here.

374 Gutneshama  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:22:14am

I am of European origin and proud of it. I would not want to be anything other than what I am. I am sick of white-bashing and affirmative action. Having said that, I am also Jewish and very aware that my nationality is not considered "pure" white by racists and Neo-Nazis. I do not believe in racial supremacy of any kind. However, I am not an advocate of inter-racial or inter-religious marriage whatsoever. If the Caucasion race and Jewish religion are going to survive, we need to marry our own kind.

375 Salamantis  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:16pm

re: #374 Gutneshama

I am of European origin and proud of it. I would not want to be anything other than what I am. I am sick of white-bashing and affirmative action. Having said that, I am also Jewish and very aware that my nationality is not considered "pure" white by racists and Neo-Nazis. I do not believe in racial supremacy of any kind. However, I am not an advocate of inter-racial or inter-religious marriage whatsoever. If the Caucasion race and Jewish religion are going to survive, we need to marry our own kind.

I'm in favor of people marrying whomever they happen to fall in love with. Provided they're not beasts, relatives or minors, and the other party loves them back.

376 EE  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:27:24pm

First of all, look at where the road that Brussels Journal advocates leads: to terrorism, expulsion, or murder of those who have a different skin color or a different religion. We have already seen this sort of lunacy in the Nazi movement of Hitler. It led to a world war, and the deaths of tens of millions of people in that war. To hell with their evil movement.

377 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 11:17:55am
378 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:06:40pm

Another creationist melts down, only to be bid adieu.


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 Frank says:

The single-child yuppo-family that uses the child as a status object: 'A perfect child? Of course! We have one here -- he's under the coffee table. Ralph, stand up! Play the violin!'