Don't tell Algore!

So the colder it gets the more that proves global warming? I give up.

While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.

Wait wait wait... the world is getting warmer, it's global warming. The world is getting cooler, it's global warming. When is it not global warming? When the temperature stays the same?

. Ironically, 2008 is on pace to be a slightly cooler year in a steadily rising temperature trend line. Experts say it's thanks to a La Nina weather variation. While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.

Heh. I'm not an expert but I suspect the wheels are coming off the Global Warming bandwagon. In another 5-6 years we probably won't hear about it again.

re: #4 bmvaughn

No, silly. That would be global warming.

Here's an idea gub'mint might buy into...

Let's pollute to cool the planet.

"It's a ticking time bomb!"
/Game over, mankind!

Maybe they're right, and it's the excess carbon dioxide that explains this spreading plague of stupidity.

Wow, that's my first hat tip, ever, in the 4 years I've been here.

Then again, it's probably the first link I posted in 4 years that wasn't shameless self-promotion.

Thanks Charles, that made my day.

re: #4 bmvaughn

Wait wait wait... the world is getting warmer, it's global warming. The world is getting cooler, it's global warming. When is it not global warming? When the temperature stays the same?

It will not be global warming when Al Gore can't make money on it.

"Progressives" need a crisis to help implement their policies. This one suits them quite nicely and should be highly alarming.

It's getting colder, but it's still warmer.

United Nations Climatologist Yogi Berra

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Heh. I'm not an expert but I suspect the wheels are coming off the Global Warming bandwagon. In another 5-6 years we probably won't hear about it again.

It will be the man made coming ice age we'll have to combat with socialist ideas then. Just like when I was in High School.

I personally would like to know Mr. Obama's positions on unicorns. Especially of the magical flying variety.

re: #11 kansas

I actually saw An Inconvenient Truth on Discovery HD yesterday... well, part of it... for the first time. It's just Al Gore in an auditorium? Is there no counterpoint? This is what caused all of the hoopla, seriously? Jeez... it's almost as bad as the Troofers.

At what point should we start being concerned about the lack of sunspots and the delay of the new solar cycle?

re: #14 jcm

It will be the man made coming ice age we'll have to combat with socialist ideas then. Just like when I was in High School.

Ice-9!
/Kurt Vonnegut reference, pre-moonbat era

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Now it is a ticking time bomb that President-elect Barack Obama can't avoid.

Since Clinton's inauguration, summer Arctic sea ice has lost the equivalent of Alaska, California and Texas. The 10 hottest years on record have occurred since Clinton's second inauguration. Global warming is accelerating. Time is close to running out, and Obama knows it.

"The time for delay is over; the time for denial is over," he said on Tuesday after meeting with former Vice President Al Gore, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for his work on global warming. "We all believe what the scientists have been telling us for years now that this is a matter of urgency and national security and it has to be dealt with in a serious way."

Okay, so why didn't the Clinton/Gore dream team submit the Kyoto Protocol for ratification? Obviously, the world couldn't wait 'til 2010, right Seth Borenstein?

re: #16 bmvaughn

I actually saw An Inconvenient Truth on Discovery HD yesterday... well, part of it... for the first time. It's just Al Gore in an auditorium? Is there no counterpoint? This is what caused all of the hoopla, seriously? Jeez... it's almost as bad as the Troofers.

And he lies about the data.......

In December 2009, diplomats are charged with forging a new treaty replacing the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which set limits on greenhouse gases, and which the United States didn'tratify. This time European officials have high expectations for the U.S. to take the lead. But many experts don't see Congress passing a climate bill in time because of pressing economic and war issues.

"The reality is, it may take more than the first year to get it all done," Senate Energy Committee Chairman Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., said recently.

No kidding.

I thought he would just fix global Warming with a quick visit to Mt Olympus and a God to God talk with Zeus.

re: #20 jcm

And he lies about the data.......

Meh... I was a bit put off by the alarmist nature of the 5 minutes I watched. Then I switched over to the What Not To Wear Marathon and enjoyed myself considerably more.

re: #20 jcm

And he lies about the data.......

Personally I doubt he understands the data. I don't think Al is the sharpest pencil in the cup.

re: #4 bmvaughn

Wait wait wait... the world is getting warmer, it's global warming. The world is getting cooler, it's global warming. When is it not global warming? When the temperature stays the same?

No. That's called "change we can believe in".

Oh, nature! It's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

Right now on the History Channel: a fascinating look at the 10 plagues of Egypt, from the Exodus.

Wow. Don't mess with the Creator is all to be said on it.

The good news is that more and more prominent scientists are coming out to express skepticism about the CO2-warming connection. The bad news, of course, is that none of them will ever be interviewed in an AP story.

re: #4 bmvaughn

Wait wait wait... the world is getting warmer, it's global warming. The world is getting cooler, it's global warming. When is it not global warming? When the temperature stays the same?

It's no longer Global Warming when you are socialized, standard of living in the toilet and have given up all your wealth to them though various channels; carbon credits, bio-fuel subsidies, taxes, ridiculous alternative power sources that cannot survive free markets.

Then the Earth will cool. You will see...

Obama is stacking his Cabinet and inner circle with advocates who have pushed for deep mandatory cuts in greenhouse gas pollution and even with government officials who have achieved results at the local level.

The President-elect has said that one of the first things he will do when he gets to Washington is grant California and other states permission to control car tailpipe emissions, something the Bush administration denied.

That will be great for the economy! Unfunded mandates and additional business expenses will surely help our troubled economy rise to it's former eminence.

/what an idiot

The Sea Ice is disappearing!

I had planned to do a post yesterday evening about how sea ice area and extent had returned to very near normal levels. But I was tired, so I saved off the graphs from the NANSEN arctic sea ice site.

This morning I was shocked to discover that overnight, huge amounts of sea ice simply disappeared. Fortunately I had saved the images and a copy of the webpage last night. Here is the before and after in a blink comparator:

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Wow, that's my first hat tip, ever, in the 4 years I've been here.

Then again, it's probably the first link I posted in 4 years that wasn't shameless self-promotion.

Thanks Charles, that made my day.

I hope it doesn't max out your bandwidth... might want to keep an eye on that.

re: #28 Max Darkside

It's no longer Global Warming when you are socialized, standard of living in the toilet and have given up all your wealth to them though various channels; carbon credits, bio-fuel subsidies, taxes, ridiculous alternative power sources that cannot survive free markets.

Then the Earth will cool. You will see...

Haha... those silly hippies paying $4 a gallon for biodiesel must love the $1.79 I'm paying for unleaded.

re: #24 kansas

Personally I doubt he understands the data. I don't think Al is the sharpest pencil in the cup.

good analogy, his head is starting to resemble a big eraser!

So the AP is privy to this information but can't *figure out* that Obama is a lying socialist.

some of these quotes are hilarious

For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee

From Global Warming Central in Golden, Colorado.

MINUS NINE DEGREES BELOW ZERO RIGHT NOW.

It's a little chilly out tonight. When I got home from the theater, Maisey the Parrot was on the phone trying to book a flight to Brazil.

re: #16 bmvaughn

I actually saw An Inconvenient Truth on Discovery HD yesterday... well, part of it... for the first time. It's just Al Gore in an auditorium? Is there no counterpoint? This is what caused all of the hoopla, seriously? Jeez... it's almost as bad as the Troofers.

I especially loved the part about how the heat can radiate in, but apparently, is "trapped" so it can't get out. (How the hell did it get in in the first place then? And doesn't heat rise?)

re: #15 Sizzlack

I personally would like to know Mr. Obama's positions on unicorns. Especially of the magical flying variety.

and the ones that crap rainbows,
like the one i am waiting for.
also, white w/ a pink mane and tail.
please oh pleaser let it arrive soon.
or i might get disillusioned w/ the O.

re: #23 bmvaughn

Meh... I was a bit put off by the alarmist nature of the 5 minutes I watched. Then I switched over to the What Not To Wear Marathon and enjoyed myself considerably more.

His wonderful graph showing the correlation of CO₂ to temperature. The data is taken from the Vostok Ice Cores. An when viewed over a larger time scale do correlate, however the data details how CO₂ rises lag temperature increases by 800 years. Exactly the opposite of what Algore tells the audience.

re: #31 Charles

I hope it doesn't max out your bandwidth... might want to keep an eye on that.

Roger, Charles.

For those that watch Family Guy.....

DAMN NATURE, YOU SCARY!

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

re: #19 David Simon

Because Democrats are not bound by the earthy bonds of reality, but rather gain esteem and renown by symbolic gestures. Signing, and worse yet abiding, by Kyoto would dismantle our economy. So, no signee. But dine out on the tales of Republican ignorance and obstruction, glamorizing the simple life of hobbit-like purity that will arise among the peasantry soon, very soon.

re: #5 Killgore Trout

In 5 years Al Gore will be held in the same esteem as Paul Ehrlich, author of the ridiculous book 'The Population bomb': Doomsayer Paul Ehrlich Strikes Out Again [Link: www.junkscience.com...]

They're just hoping 0bama will hurry up and pass something as soon as he's in office- so he (and the MSM and Gore and any other global warming nut) gets credit for stopping global warming when the cooling trend really gets going.

This "scientific" AP article needs footnotes; otherwise it's just opinion.

What are they teaching in J School anyway?

re: #29 Sharmuta

That will be great for the economy! Unfunded mandates and additional business expenses will surely help our troubled economy rise to it's former eminence.

/what an idiot

Oh. Yes. Imbecilic hypocrisy of moronic proportions.

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

We have snow in Portland tonight. Luckily I made row covers last week to protect my wasabi plants.

The more that comes out about climate change, the more pundits like al goracle should be ashamed of themselves- that is, if they had any shame:

Melting ice may slow global warming

Collapsing antarctic ice sheets, which have become potent symbols of global warming, may actually turn out to help in the battle against climate change and soaring carbon emissions.

Professor Rob Raiswell, a geologist at the University of Leeds, says that as the sheets break off the ice covering the continent, floating icebergs are produced that gouge minerals from the bedrock as they make their way to the sea. Raiswell believes that the accumulated frozen mud could breathe life into the icy waters around Antarctica, triggering a large, natural removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

It just becomes more and more clear the alarmists don't know what they're talking about. They have a Queen of Hearts mentality- verdict first!

re: #16 bmvaughn

I actually saw An Inconvenient Truth on Discovery HD yesterday... well, part of it... for the first time. It's just Al Gore in an auditorium? Is there no counterpoint? This is what caused all of the hoopla, seriously? Jeez... it's almost as bad as the Troofers.

And it is in that movie that Al Gore himself, unwittingly, shows that Temperature influences CO2 and not the other way around. He shows the two series in a chart, animated, and as it plays out you can clearly see that Temp LEADS CO2. That was the moment I discovered for myself, this is a bunch of bunk to take your money.

re: #46 Noam Chumpski

This "scientific" AP article needs footnotes; otherwise it's just opinion.

What are they teaching in J School anyway?

They strive for the coveted Goebbels Prize awarded by the Ministry of Truth.

re: #35 Shug

I saw that the other day. The quote that I find truly frightening is this one:

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

I would only like one question answered by the scientists.

What caused and stopped the many Ice ages that occurred before the invention of the SUV ?

It got cold. then it warmed up. then it got cold again, etc etc etc

re: #42 Charles

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

It's been politicized, data manipulated (see comment above), contrary voices silenced. and adopted as a means to end for the socialists.

re: #38 nyc redneck
It will be under the tree on Christmas Day. /

re: #42 Charles

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

I think that's a really reasonable take on the issue... I feel about the same way, except I'm a little more frightened by the global warming alarmists than I am by the deniers.

re: #14 jcm

It will be the man made coming ice age we'll have to combat with socialist ideas then. Just like when I was in High School.

I remember that crap too. Its funny, ain't it? No matter the problem, the solution is always more government control and surrender to the collective!

/same old song and dance

They sound like that Islamist site Charles talked about a few weeks ago that attempted to "prove" evolution false. Seriously, when you're coming to conclusions that run the opposite of your observations, that's FAITH, not SCIENCE!

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Some news agencies are speculating that Obama will tomorrow announce yet more cabinet positions -- including a new "climate czar" (From AFP: "Obama was also expected to announce that Carol Browner, who served as EPA administrator under president Bill Clinton and who leads the Obama transition team's working group on energy and environmental issues, will become the White House "climate czar," a post could include some of the responsibilities previously under EPA...) So there will be quite a bit invested in the political ideology of "global climate warming." I don't expect it to be going away anytime soon. The politicians also simply redefine the terms (from "global warming" to "climate change" -- thus making the "theory" irrefutable)...

The real threat to our existence is the expansion of the sun. If something isn't done about it pretty damn quick, we will find that our little blue ball of a planet will get burnt to a crisp in about 4 billion +- years. The science on this is settled. The consensuses, which is now worth more than facts for these kinds of theories, is unanimously in my favor.

I need a ton of grant money to help me buy enough Tequila and beer to study this issue more thoroughly.

Are you listening Democrats? Send me some damned money you deniers! Hurry it up! The ice in my blender is starting to melt.

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

;-)

re: #48 Killgore Trout

We have snow in Portland tonight. Luckily I made row covers last week to protect my wasabi plants.

Really a serious question. Is that unusual in the winter. Isn't Portland further north than Denver? Or do you get a lot warmer winds coming in from the Pacific?

I don't know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it.

Your proposition may be good,
But let's have one thing understood,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
I'm against it.

I'm opposed to it,
On general principle, I'm opposed to it.

[chorus] He's opposed to it.
In fact, indeed, that he's opposed to it!

[Groucho]
For months before my son was born,
I used to yell from night to morn,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
And I've kept yelling since I first commenced it,
I'm against it!

(Groucho, as Professor Wagstaff, movie Horsefeathers, 1931 - ahead of its time!)

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Heh. I'm not an expert but I suspect the wheels are coming off the Global Warming bandwagon. In another 5-6 years we probably won't hear about it again.

One can only hope. I'll repeat something--my kid's 7th grade social studies class had a big laugh Friday when CNN for kids reported this story..."global cooling crisis" caused by....greenhouse gasses like carbon dioxide.

it could become the biggest joke of the generation. of course hollywood and the news media losers are going to pull out all the stops to brainwash people even more.

of course, here's the real story:
[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]

GREETINGS, LIZARDS, HAVE BEEN AWAY FOR WEEKEND

(oops caps lock......

re: #49 Sharmuta

Collapsing antarctic ice sheets, which have become potent symbols of global warming

Actually, Antarctic ice has neither grown nor shrunk over the decades. It's a jiggly flat line.

I'm sure someone has posted about the EPA's proposal to tax cow flatulence. Well, I hope they resolve the issue soon because it's really tough on the cows.

re: #69 Max Darkside

Just the messenger.

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Portland (OR) is warmer than Denver by far :)

re: #61 Syrah

Couldn't you say that about any star? Of course that only increases the scope of the problem further. I blame SUVs for altering the balance of energy of the universe!

/sarc lastline

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

We get a lot of warm air off the pacific. Portland is also only about 500 feet above sea level. We usually get one or two snow/ice storms a year.

It was warm here Al
Until you came
An inconvenient fact
You made snow from rain

Burma shave

re: #64 taxfreekiller

12 days now no sun spots,
30 days in Dec. no sun spots
Al Gore and the global warming lie

Well they can just freeze their lying ass's off for all I care

Can you say Maunder Minimum?
Can you say Mini-ice age?
Ice skating on the Thames?

Algore can take gorebul warming and put it in a dark, warm, moist place.

re: #35 Shug

some of these quotes are hilarious

These are minds on drugs----These are minds on.....oh never mind.

re: #44 MrPaulRevere

In 5 years Al Gore will be held in the same esteem as Paul Ehrlich, author of the ridiculous book 'The Population bomb': Doomsayer Paul Ehrlich Strikes Out Again [Link: www.junkscience.com...]

Interesting bit on the benefits of genetic tech from that link:

"Our silos runneth over, as yields continue to increase all over the world. For example, corn is now the world's most important crop. Here and worldwide, we now harvest about 50% more corn per acre than 30 years ago. And, says Hudson Institute analyst Dennis Avery, crop yields can be raised from the current world average of around 1.2 tons per acre to six to nine tons. And advances in genetics promise to dwarf even these increases."

there are so many issues w/ g.b. warming.
what i'm, not comfortable w/ is how china and india and russia can spew out filth and nasty debris and have, actual burning polluted, rivers w/ no life in them at all, and they get a pass on every bitter carbon they emit.
the left is blind to that. but tries to cripple us.

re: #72 Sharmuta

Just the messenger.

BANG !

/tee hee... Do you play the piano? (GRIN)

re: #43 Joan

Because Democrats are not bound by the earthy bonds of reality, but rather gain esteem and renown by symbolic gestures.

And the worst offenders are the first ones to criticize blind faith religion. Oh, the irony.

re: #42 Charles

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

polution is bad. duh

but I think the numbers are pretty clear...carbon dioxide levels have indeed risen over the last 10 years. global temperatures have not.

no politicization there; numbers don't lie

What really puzzles me is that the talk is always about how we should stop global warming.
(provided that we do really have a warming trend - climate is so incredible complex that I for one don't have the tools or info to conclude one or the other),
As much as I understand the issue, it would take several dozens of years for any of our changes to curb our output of greenhouse gases to have any effect on the climate as a whole.
So, it appears that the real issue here should be disaster prevention, what are we going to do if the sea levels are really rising, or if we have to deal with 30 catastrophic hurricanes than with just one or two per season?

re: #76 Shug

It was warm here Al
Until you came
An inconvenient fact
You made snow from rain

Burma shave

Rhythm's a bit off, but it is good.

Twas warm here, Al
Until you came
Your presence made
snow from the rain
Burma shave

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Really a serious question. Is that unusual in the winter. Isn't Portland further north than Denver? Or do you get a lot warmer winds coming in from the Pacific?

Cold front from up North 25° and snow in Seattle.

Portland sits at the end of the Columbia Gorge, cold interior air comes down the Gorge and really frosts Portland.

re: #75 Killgore Trout

We get a lot of warm air off the pacific. Portland is also only about 500 feet above sea level. We usually get one or two snow/ice storms a year.

Got it. I wasn't really sure, but I thought it could be something like that.

re: #42 Charles

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

The trouble is even if the alarmists are correct, the hugely expensive plans they've laid out don't actually stop the problem, they only slightly slow it down.

If you can't fix it, why spend trillions on a non-fix?

I was debating this very issue this morning with my moonbat brother.

He is certain the cooling over the last year is due to high gas prices, and people driving less and less greenhouse gas.

No, really!

re: #56 snowcrash

It will be under the tree on Christmas Day. /

{snowcrash}, you give me such HOPE.
;p

Politics usurping Science? Who'da thunk it?

re: #81 Max Darkside

BANG !

/tee hee... Do you play the piano? (GRIN)

Yes- but not with any sort of accuracy or musical ability. ;p

re: #60 J.S.

Some news agencies are speculating that Obama will tomorrow announce yet more cabinet positions -- including a new "climate czar" (From AFP: "Obama was also expected to announce that Carol Browner, who served as EPA administrator under president Bill Clinton and who leads the Obama transition team's working group on energy and environmental issues, will become the White House "climate czar," a post could include some of the responsibilities previously under EPA...) So there will be quite a bit invested in the political ideology of "global climate warming." I don't expect it to be going away anytime soon. The politicians also simply redefine the terms (from "global warming" to "climate change" -- thus making the "theory" irrefutable)...

________________________
Climate Czar? What channel will he be on? Hope he'll be better than the guys were surprised by snow last week in New Orleans.

re: #49 Sharmuta

The more that comes out about climate change, the more pundits like al goracle should be ashamed of themselves- that is, if they had any shame:

Melting ice may slow global warming

It just becomes more and more clear the alarmists don't know what they're talking about. They have a Queen of Hearts mentality- verdict first!

Aaahhhhhh, never underestimate the power of movie special effects.

Translation:
We will scream and throw poo until you panic and agree to anything we decide is important right now! We know everything. The biggest threat is warming, or cooling, or mercury, or incandescent bulbs, or religious intolerance, or intolerance of a religion, or oh look at the cute boy band, or who's pregnant today? Now don't stand there slack jawed; get busy and Do Something!

re: #93 right_on_target

No no; it won't be the Climate Czar--too many implications of imperial russia. Climate Commisar is much better!

re: #84 2by2
Not only disaster prevention, but adaptation. The earth has gone through many changes (understatement) since it's been around, and if humanity hopes to survive indefinately it's going to have to figure out how to survive the planet, much less all the changes the planet goes through.

re: #86 jcm

Cold front from up North 25° and snow in Seattle.

Portland sits at the end of the Columbia Gorge, cold interior air comes down the Gorge and really frosts Portland.

I grew up in Salem/Corvallis. The Gorge has got to be some of the worst Winter weather driving in the USA. Slick as snot ice with gatrillion mile-an-hour winds. Freeway is nothing but a rink with cars as hockey-pucks.

I am confused.

Did obama or Hillary win?
Why all the Clinton retreads?

WHERE IS THE HOPEY/CHANGEY?

re: #60 J.S.

Some news agencies are speculating that Obama will tomorrow announce yet more cabinet positions -- including a new "climate czar" (From AFP: "Obama was also expected to announce that Carol Browner, who served as EPA administrator under president Bill Clinton and who leads the Obama transition team's working group on energy and environmental issues, will become the White House "climate czar," a post could include some of the responsibilities previously under EPA...) So there will be quite a bit invested in the political ideology of "global climate warming." I don't expect it to be going away anytime soon. The politicians also simply redefine the terms (from "global warming" to "climate change" -- thus making the "theory" irrefutable)...

So, Obama will be throwing global warming under the bus.

re: #89 Shug

He is certain the cooling over the last year is due to high gas prices, and people driving less and less greenhouse gas.

The cooling is a plot by the Joos who run Exxon to sell more Saudi oil.

/too much CO2 on the brain

I picture a baghdad Bob type Climate Czar, giving his press conference in the middle of a Blizzard.

"There is no Snow. NEVER. !
The greenhouse gas is roasting us all"

re: #89 Shug

I was debating this very issue this morning with my moonbat brother.

He is certain the cooling over the last year is due to high gas prices, and people driving less and less greenhouse gas.

No, really!

In that case... time to take a roadtrip.. it's too damn cold today!

Snow?......July?

How come you can make em snowballs in summertime?

Well you see Hiawatha it's too cold to make em in da winter.

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Really a serious question. Is that unusual in the winter. Isn't Portland further north than Denver? Or do you get a lot warmer winds coming in from the Pacific?

That's only because the glaciers in Alaska have melted, you heretic!

The poor UK!
We're going to bankrupt the earth just so they can never again grow vineyards there again.
And WHY is this the optimal temperature?

re: #16 bmvaughn

I actually saw An Inconvenient Truth on Discovery HD yesterday... well, part of it... for the first time. It's just Al Gore in an auditorium? Is there no counterpoint? This is what caused all of the hoopla, seriously? Jeez... it's almost as bad as the Troofers.

REEFER MADNESS 2020

re: #106 mean Gene

The poor UK!
We're going to bankrupt the earth just so they can never again grow vineyards there again.And WHY is this the optimal temperature?

Praise and Glory to God!

re: #107 funky chicken

REEFER MADNESS 2020

I imagine that I'd really enjoy the film if I were on drugs.

re: #42 Charles

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

That pretty much matches my sentiment exactly. I pride myself on having an open mind and listening to both sides of an argument before making a decision. What concerns me about the GW alarmists is their stridency and their insistence that "the debate is over" and their attempts to smear anyone who remains skeptical as a "denier" (using that term quite deliberately to conflate GW skeptics with the utterly despicable Holocaust deniers in the public mind). It seems to me that, if you were really that certain that the facts were on your side, you probably wouldn't feel such urgency to silence all debate.

Just my $.02 worth...

re: #102 Shug

I picture a baghdad Bob type Climate Czar, giving his press conference in the middle of a Blizzard.

"There is no Snow. NEVER. !
The greenhouse gas is roasting us all"

Ah .. but didnt you notice that in Mecca there is no snow because there is the Kaaba? Its also the magnetic centre of the universe .. which is of course .. flat ...

/ -- insert padded white coat here --

re: #99 Typicalwhitey

I am confused. Did obama or Hillary win?
Why all the Clinton retreads? WHERE IS THE HOPEY/CHANGEY?

Here...

"I think that you should hear what my opinion about the Obama election is: that he will not be the next president. I said on my home page in August that if he lost to expect to see the 'riots' that 2 Peter 2:13 tells us about. He didn't lose. But the story is not finished yet. I still think they may begin the riots before Christmas 2008, as I said."

These riots, according to his prophecy, will encourage the "old, hard-line Soviet guard" to seize the moment and rain down nukes on the United States, killing at least 100 million of us.

"Prepare now," Freeborn's letter concluded. "We are downwind from Las Vegas. I hope you can survive."

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

That's gonna be a lot of climate change.

didn't algore say, "the dabate on g.b. warming is over."
it's existence is NOT open to discussion.
tell that to many scientists who have pertinent facts and evidence that show humans are not the cause.

Seriously- when countries like China and India get their pollution under better control, I'll consider our standards in need of revision. As it stands, the US does it's far share of working at being an enviro-friendly nation. I don't appreciate the hypocrisy from those who claim to care so much about the earth yet are willing to turn a blind eye are the real polluters.

re: #84 2by2

What really puzzles me is that the talk is always about how we should stop global warming.
(provided that we do really have a warming trend - climate is so incredible complex that I for one don't have the tools or info to conclude one or the other),
As much as I understand the issue, it would take several dozens of years for any of our changes to curb our output of greenhouse gases to have any effect on the climate as a whole.
So, it appears that the real issue here should be disaster prevention, what are we going to do if the sea levels are really rising, or if we have to deal with 30 catastrophic hurricanes than with just one or two per season?

Mankind is not causing "climate change", period.

re: #78 Soona'

These are minds on drugs----

Shopping Penguin

/as seen on Planet Unicorn

I hope the global warming people one day conclude that our green policies actually stopped global warming and saved the planet. Then the next day an asteroid slams into the earth, obliterating us all. The humor would be worth it.

Woody Allen's character, as a child
The Sun is expanding

re: #97 lizardbennet

agreed, to me it looks terribly arrogant and even clueless to argue about causes and effects, while we don't have the tools and power to stopgap any changes, rather than work on the larger issue of surviving those changes when they appear.

Got my Zionist check in the mail yesterday! W00t!

re: #42 Charles

A reasonable take on things to be sure. However any cause embraced with a religious fervor by leftists and statists sets off my radar.

The Percentages of gases that make up Earth's Atmosphere:
Nitrogen N2 78.08%
Oxygen O2 20.95%
*Water H2O 0 to 4%
Argon Ar 0.93%
*Carbon Dioxide CO2 0.0360%
Neon Ne 0.0018%
Helium He 0.0005%
Methane CH4 0.00017%
Hydrogen H2 0.00005%
Nitrous Oxide N2O 0.00003%
Ozone O3 0.000004%

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Note that CO2 is 0.036%, or 0.00036 of total atmosphere.

THIS article, however, is full of Global-warming PCness:

[Link: www.physicalgeography.net...]

A 150% increase in 300 years of CO2 means that 300 years ago, percentage was:
0.000144 of total atmosphere.

GASP! HOLD ME, AL GORE!

I recently read that no matter what the civilized world does it cannot make up for the 2 billion people cooking and keeping warm via OPEN FIRES (like campfires) everyday.

I still want to know who is responsible for killing all he dinosaurs with global freezing! I say it is the Bush/Rove/Cheney proto-ancestors. I demand restitution for the reptiles...except those damn Lizards at LGF!

/off moonbat mode

re: #119 2by2

agreed, to me it looks terribly arrogant and even clueless to argue about causes and effects, while we don't have the tools and power to stopgap any changes, rather than work on the larger issue of surviving those changes when they appear.

Absolutely, the first time we know how to control the planet, we will be lords of the domain, kings of all we survey. And then comes the responsibility of being a lord.

The Sun = bright light
Al Gore   = dim bulb

re: #39 jcm

LOL! That's an inconvenient truth for sure.

If Nature is a mother, who is the father?

...and who made spell check only work for misspelled words? It should know what I mean. (he = the)

/

re: #123 mean Gene

I recently read that no matter what the civilized world does it cannot make up for the 2 billion people cooking and keeping warm via OPEN FIRES (like campfires) everyday.

Perhaps global warming will cause the seas to rise and thus put out a few of these fires... which would then result in global cooling, the receding of the seas, and the spread of more humans and thus the lighting of more fires... ahhh a perfect cycle!

re: #128 Sharmuta

If Nature is a mother, who is the father?

You may get an argument over that....

re: #115 Soona'

Mankind is not causing "climate change", period.

..and I didn't say that, maybe read the post and the sentiment I was expressing there?

re: #123 mean Gene

I recently read that no matter what the civilized world does it cannot make up for the 2 billion people cooking and keeping warm via OPEN FIRES (like campfires) everyday.

I doubt that. Someone, somewhere, is burning a lot of coal on my behalf, I admit it. My hot water usage alone probably causes more CO2 than some charcoal and brush fire heating an uninsulated hut. The energy used to build my car, amortized over several years, is probably more by itself than said third world family uses.

re: #123 mean Gene

I recently read that no matter what the civilized world does it cannot make up for the 2 billion people cooking and keeping warm via OPEN FIRES (like campfires) everyday.

They have to quite using fires and buy solar panels.

That really is the plan.

I was reading about the Michelson-Morley experiments (1887); Morley kept doubting his own results, and kept repeating the experiments with improved equipment, etc. Imagine this now.

re: #116 Killian Bundy

Shopping Penguin

/as seen on Planet Unicorn

Funny.

Global warming can cause localized cooling. For example, it can cause the warmer surface water flowing from the equator that warms the coast of Europe to sink before reaching that area. A cold snap in one area is no more a argument against planet warming than a heat wave in one area is proof of it.
Science looks at average mean temperatures, and there is no question they have been rising in step with rising C02 levels, snow in New Orleans or not.

I am not a global warming believer. Regardless of whether climate change is real or a great Al Gore money making scheme, I do feel we should be good stewards of our environment. That doesn't mean fluorescent bulbs all around, that means (to me) no throwing garbage on the ground, in our waterways, etc. Clean up after yourself, keep the undeveloped areas pretty. If we can utilize technology to assist in reducing pollution, then by all means do so. But lets not go crazy, people.

George Harrison had it right...it's been a long cold lonely winter.

Here Comes The Sun...checkout the all-star cast.

re: #128 Sharmuta

If Nature is a mother, who is the father?

Tomorrow's Jerry Springer show

re: #117 viciouscircledammit

I hope the global warming people one day conclude that our green policies actually stopped global warming and saved the planet. Then the next day an asteroid slams into the earth, obliterating us all. The humor would be worth it.

Okay. Just slow down a bit. Sit down. Now breathe.
/

re: #137 avanti

Then why did most of the temperature increase occur before the post WWII manufacturing boom?

OT - I sent a strongly worded email to Senator McCain - I let him know just how dissapointed I am in his behaviors. I am positive he won't be getting any sleep after reading that!

re: #4 bmvaughn

Wait wait wait... the world is getting warmer, it's global warming. The world is getting cooler, it's global warming.

Global warming or not, can we at least agree that the snow in New Orleans earlier this week was anthropogenic, and we should do something incredibly expensive about it right now?

(And by "right now," I mean "before the midterm elections in 2010.")

re: #137 avanti

Global warming can cause localized cooling. For example, it can cause the warmer surface water flowing from the equator that warms the coast of Europe to sink before reaching that area. A cold snap in one area is no more a argument against planet warming than a heat wave in one area is proof of it.
Science looks at average mean temperatures, and there is no question they have been rising in step with rising C02 levels, snow in New Orleans or not.

I'm not really following it, but I thought that most of the numbers had been shown bogus, caused by idiotic rounding errors and other data problems, such that the warmest years on record were around 1920.

Anyway, the poles are melting on Mars, Pluto (or is it Neptune?) is apparently warming, too, and I hope Al Gore takes off for one of these locations and finds himself a new permanent home there.

Certainly there are much warmer years on record in geological history. CO2 levels, I'm not certain we have figures on.

[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]

Something rotten in Norway?
Looks like some revisions in records.......

C02 as a marker of , not as a cause of warming

re: #147 Shug

C02 as a marker of , not as a cause of warming

The fear is that it's a cause, trapping solar energy.

One of the best Global Warming Debunking web sites for us normal folks is by Anthony Watts. Go, then bookmark (seriously)
[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]

If you like more technical stuff, then go for Climate Audit:
[Link: www.climateaudit.org...]
Go, then bookmark.

These guys are good, including Watt's documenting where some of the temperature sensors are located (related to urbanization). One of my favorites is:
[Link: www.norcalblogs.com...]

Charles, if you read Watt's site for just a bit, you will snap to one side of this issue.

One of the largest producers of CO2 in the world.... the ocean.

BAN THE OCEAN!

re: #133 itellu3times

The energy used to build my car, amortized over several years, is probably more by itself than said third world family uses.

No not even close. About $50-100 in energy costs to assemble a vehicle in the US.

re: #137 avanti

"Global warming can cause localized cooling. For example, it can cause the warmer surface water flowing from the equator that warms the coast of Europe to sink before reaching that area."

Warming causing warm water to sink below cooler water? Yeah, right.

"Science looks at average mean temperatures, and there is no question they have been rising in step with rising C02 levels, snow in New Orleans or not."

...and the Mine-Ice Age during the Middle Ages in Europe was caused by...? Yeah, right.

It used to be a lot warmer than it is now. A thousand years ago, the Vikings grew wheat in Greenland, and monks raised grape arbors in Yorkshire:

[Link: www.sovereignty.org.uk...]

I doubt if the cause of that relative global heat wave was human campfires.

Wow, I just made LGF top ten comments for the first time! I was just coming off of a bad case of posters block. Its a good thing I don't blog for a living.

re: #151 mich-again

No not even close. About $50-100 in energy costs to assemble a vehicle in the US.

OK, so how much energy does that family generate burning trash and dung?

Hey Al,

When does the Northwest Passage open?

Thousands of Ocean Shipping firms want to know....they have schedules to keep. What? It's only the "good" ice that is melting and we are only left with "bad" ice in the way of the boats that want to take that neat shortcut to Asia from the East Coast.

Just how does that work?

Gawd, I hate hysterics. This article is full of algoraphobia high drama.
Blecch.

Obama was not much of a student, obviously. And his lack of scientific scholarship is a most acute failing. He is a scientific ignoramus that does not know the difference between cause, effect, and coincidence.

I am headed off to bed - you guys enjoy the discussion. Behave!

I haven't read all the posts here, but does anyone else remember their Teachers/Profs explaining to them that a "Global Average Temperature" was a farcical device? Unmeasurable, incalculable, utterly useless? It was in the Eighties and we all had that drilled into our heads.
The crux being that since even local temps varied by 3-7 (whatever) degrees on any given day within a "City" (man-made, nature don't care where you are) depending on where in that City you measured the temp., no reasonable guess could be made for even the temp. of that City for any given day.
They made us stand in cruddy public parks all around town to prove it. They were right.

re: #137 avanti

Global warming can cause localized cooling. For example, it can cause the warmer surface water flowing from the equator that warms the coast of Europe to sink before reaching that area. A cold snap in one area is no more a argument against planet warming than a heat wave in one area is proof of it.
Science looks at average mean temperatures, and there is no question they have been rising in step with rising C02 levels, snow in New Orleans or not.

No, since about 1998, they HAVE NOT. Carbon dioxide levels have rising by a lot, temps have hit a plateu.

You have been brainwashed, and you appear to like it.

re: #144 Throbert McGee

Maybe the Globull Warmists' gods will be placated if we sacrifice 10,000 Globull warmists to them. If nothing else, it'd be a good start...

And damn the BBC for their restrictions on The Great Global Warming Swindle.

It's as if they realized what they'd done after the fact and now want to keep people conned. Shame on them.

re: #151 mich-again

No not even close. About $50-100 in energy costs to assemble a vehicle in the US.

And does that count the energy to make the steel, or mine and smelt the ore? Much less to heat the homes of the UAW workers involved?

re: #143 ArmyWife

OT - I sent a strongly worded email to Senator McCain - I let him know just how dissapointed I am in his behaviors. I am positive he won't be getting any sleep after reading that!

Ya' never know. :D
/fantasizing again

re: #137 avanti

Global warming can cause localized cooling. For example, it can cause the warmer surface water flowing from the equator that warms the coast of Europe to sink before reaching that area. A cold snap in one area is no more a argument against planet warming than a heat wave in one area is proof of it.
Science looks at average mean temperatures, and there is no question they have been rising in step with rising C02 levels, snow in New Orleans or not.

I detail a lot of problems with Global Warming.
Surface temperature measurement errors.
Inconsistent measurements depending on altitude.
Fraudulent data and data analysis to show AGW.
Theory of AGW doesn't match historical record.
Discontinuities in recent record between CO₂ and Temperature.
etc....

Climate Changes happens.
Anthropogenic Global Warming doesn't.

re: #4 bmvaughn
From the article:

While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.

From the sarcastic post:

Wait wait wait... the world is getting warmer, it's global warming. The world is getting cooler, it's global warming. When is it not global warming? When the temperature stays the same?

The fact that a year which stacks up against recent years as cold would, when stacked up against the 1980's say, rate as hot, illustrates how fast the world is warming.

Don't tell me you didn't understand this when you first read the article.

Let's say we're playing a simple dice game. You roll the die, and if it comes out 1, 2, or 3, you win a dollar, while if it comes out 4, 5, or 6, I win a dollar. It seems like a fair game, and you're doing OK. Win some, lose some.

But after each roll of the die, I take out a file and round off the corners of the 1 face just a tiny little bit. You see me filing, but you're skeptical about whether it has any effect on the odds. You see that your losses are piling up, but on the other hand, you have just won three in a row. You turn to the bystander who's jumping up and down screaming that I'm cheating and that the game is now loaded against you, and you tell him to shut up: he has no proof.

You wouldn't. Nobody is that dumb.

So how is one warm, but cool-compared-to-last-year, winter, any better evidence that the global warming hypothesis is wrong, than a run of three wins in a row is evidence that the die is not loaded? You say that the die is big, and the filing is tiny, and it cannot possibly matter. (The earth is big, and carbon dioxide is a minor constituent of the atmosphere.) But you can't compute the physics of the thing all the way to the end. Who knows? A little here, a little there, pretty soon it could budge the odds a few hundredths of one percent. And that would be enough to mess up your chances in a long game. In the same way, a temperature increase of a few degrees, out of an average of 300 kelvin, give or take, could mess up the climate.

When enough arctic sea ice melts and the Arctic becomes open water along the Canadian and Russian coast some balmy late July, what rationalization will you grasp at? Or will you concede that it's high time we accepted the reality of the phenomenon and started doing something either in mitigation or in preparation for coping?

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Give me a W!
Give me an A!
Give me a L!...

screw it! Congrats Walter.

Back in the Stone Age (1972), when almost no multivariate analysis had more than a half dozen inputs because it was all worked out by hand and even graduate student slaves would rebel at some point, an outfit called The Club of Rome issued a very silly book called The Limits to Growth. Bad ideas never do go away, they just float back like the pollution on the tide.

oh, and avanti, honey.....look up convection.

heat rises, cold sinks

it's kinda a foundational concept

re: #160 Lincolntf

The parks where I grew up were pretty nice. You should have moved.

The Earth Is Cooling! We're all doomed !

/ 1975

re: #155 itellu3times

OK, so how much energy does that family generate burning trash and dung?

I don't know, but if Algore was there he'd be making that shit up.
/

re: #1 jcm

Don't tell Algore!

jcm -

If it were Mathematics - would all y'all believe in an "ALGORERITHM?" Former VP Gore has become the ULTIMATE SCHLEMAZEL - seems like every time he appears to hype "Global Warming" - IT SNOWS!

-S-

Charles,

and Watts is not unlike yourself in using "throbbing" charts to show people are messing with the data... like this one that shows one set of temp deviations in 1999, then SURPRISE! GLOBAL WARMING! all of a sudden appears!

Throbbing Memo-chart:
[Link: wattsupwiththat.com...]

re: #42 Charles

Just for the record, the jury is still out on global warming. I'm reluctant to endorse either side, because the issue has been politicized beyond recognition.

That's why it's better to leave off the scientific debate and concentrate on what the proper role of the government should be in regulating the climate. A lot of global warming skeptics seem to actually be government intervention skeptics, but they are arguing against the science instead of against the government intervention. If the science were to somehow demonstrate that global warming was really occurring, then they would be up the disastrously flooding creek without a paddle.

It's far better to argue instead that it is not the place of the government to regulate the climate. If the world gets warmer, and some bad things happen as a result, so be it -- let people decide for themselves how best to deal with those bad things. If sea levels rise, people will move away from the shores. If more frequent and severe hurricanes occur, people will move away from the hurricane zones. People will cope if they are free to do so.

Global Warming is the left's new religion.

re: #168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Give me a W!
Give me an A!
Give me a L!...

screw it! Congrats Walter.

Thanks. Gee, that reminded me of my girlfriend last night.

Global warming can cause localized cooling.

Sorry. While this is often stated, there is no rational basis for this whatsoever. Global warming does cause rainfall increases in formerly parched areas. That may make it appear cooler.
And Global cooling does not create warmer weather either. But is does create deserts that are seemingly warm. Think Tibet.

re: #175 Max Darkside
See my # 146.

re: #177 Maximu§

Global Warming is the left's new religion.

They found a cause people are willing to give up liberty for.

re: #167 lostlakehiker

From the article:

The fact that a year which stacks up against recent years as cold would, when stacked up against the 1980's say, rate as hot, illustrates how fast the world is warming.

Don't tell me you didn't understand this when you first read the article.

Let's say we're playing a simple dice game. You roll the die, and if it comes out 1, 2, or 3, you win a dollar, while if it comes out 4, 5, or 6, I win a dollar. It seems like a fair game, and you're doing OK. Win some, lose some.

But after each roll of the die, I take out a file and round off the corners of the 1 face just a tiny little bit. You see me filing, but you're skeptical about whether it has any effect on the odds. You see that your losses are piling up, but on the other hand, you have just won three in a row. You turn to the bystander who's jumping up and down screaming that I'm cheating and that the game is now loaded against you, and you tell him to shut up: he has no proof.

You wouldn't. Nobody is that dumb.

So how is one warm, but cool-compared-to-last-year, winter, any better evidence that the global warming hypothesis is wrong, than a run of three wins in a row is evidence that the die is not loaded? You say that the die is big, and the filing is tiny, and it cannot possibly matter. (The earth is big, and carbon dioxide is a minor constituent of the atmosphere.) But you can't compute the physics of the thing all the way to the end. Who knows? A little here, a little there, pretty soon it could budge the odds a few hundredths of one percent. And that would be enough to mess up your chances in a long game. In the same way, a temperature increase of a few degrees, out of an average of 300 kelvin, give or take, could mess up the climate.

When enough arctic sea ice melts and the Arctic becomes open water along the Canadian and Russian coast some balmy late July, what rationalization will you grasp at? Or will you concede that it's high time we accepted the reality of the phenomenon and started doing something either in mitigation or in preparation for coping?

um, you do know that the Vikings settled Greenland because they thought it was a great place for farming, right?

you might want to read Candide.

re: #153 Salamantis

It used to be a lot warmer than it is now. A thousand years ago, the Vikings grew wheat in Greenland, and monks raised grape arbors in Yorkshire:

[Link: www.sovereignty.org.uk...]

I doubt if the cause of that relative global heat wave was human campfires.

Damn Vikings...I knew it would cause global warming by sending all of those burning ships to Valhalla...algore needs to pick a bone with Odin.

Where is the web site that shows photos of why temperature gathering devices are reporting such warming trends?
Like the freeway went in next to it, OR an air conditioner went in near it, OR the field it was in got paved with asphalt ORcombos of the above and more.
I really loved the photos.

re: #180 notutopia

See my # 146.

And my #30...
GMTA!

re: #30 jcm

The Sea Ice is disappearing!

re: #137 avanti

Global warming can cause localized cooling. For example, it can cause the warmer surface water flowing from the equator that warms the coast of Europe to sink before reaching that area.

How?

re: #184 mean Gene

Where is the web site that shows photos of why temperature gathering devices are reporting such warming trends?
Like the freeway went in next to it, OR an air conditioner went in near it, OR the field it was in got paved with asphalt ORcombos of the above and more.
I really loved the photos.

Watts Up With That...

re: #181 jcm

They found a cause people are willing to give up liberty for.

Hey Hey, your gonna land us both in a re-education camp....I get the top bunk.

re: #167 lostlakehiker

From the article:

The fact that a year which stacks up against recent years as cold would, when stacked up against the 1980's say, rate as hot, illustrates how fast the world is warming.

Don't tell me you didn't understand this when you first read the article.

Let's say we're playing a simple dice game. You roll the die, and if it comes out 1, 2, or 3, you win a dollar, while if it comes out 4, 5, or 6, I win a dollar. It seems like a fair game, and you're doing OK. Win some, lose some.

But after each roll of the die, I take out a file and round off the corners of the 1 face just a tiny little bit. You see me filing, but you're skeptical about whether it has any effect on the odds. You see that your losses are piling up, but on the other hand, you have just won three in a row. You turn to the bystander who's jumping up and down screaming that I'm cheating and that the game is now loaded against you, and you tell him to shut up: he has no proof.

You wouldn't. Nobody is that dumb.

So how is one warm, but cool-compared-to-last-year, winter, any better evidence that the global warming hypothesis is wrong, than a run of three wins in a row is evidence that the die is not loaded? You say that the die is big, and the filing is tiny, and it cannot possibly matter. (The earth is big, and carbon dioxide is a minor constituent of the atmosphere.) But you can't compute the physics of the thing all the way to the end. Who knows? A little here, a little there, pretty soon it could budge the odds a few hundredths of one percent. And that would be enough to mess up your chances in a long game. In the same way, a temperature increase of a few degrees, out of an average of 300 kelvin, give or take, could mess up the climate.

When enough arctic sea ice melts and the Arctic becomes open water along the Canadian and Russian coast some balmy late July, what rationalization will you grasp at? Or will you concede that it's high time we accepted the reality of the phenomenon and started doing something either in mitigation or in preparation for coping?

And what would you say if the game went on without any human rolling the dice?

re: #188 Maximu§

Hey Hey, your gonna land us both in a re-education camp....I get the top bunk.

As long as you don't toss and turn.....

re: #185 jcm

Saw yours, read it. And you're right. They want to take away a few more of our liberties.

re: #171 NelsFree

I went to "The First Publicly Funded Park in the United States" (according to a bronze plaque next to the graffiti stained stone piers) for my park needs when I lived in Worcester. The school made us go to crap-ass softball fields all over the City.
It did work, though. We all came back and had temps that varied by like ten degrees. Of course, the entire City was "67 degrees" according to the thermo. on Airport Hill, which turned out to be where our City's official temp. was recorded.

....haha, seriously? How can someone not admit how much of a religion these moonbats are lining up behind?

Mother Nature is apparently now using the Associated Press...

Yep. Typical. How many times have we seen Leftist blogs saying, "The American people want [this or that]..."

re: #190 taxfreekiller

On the ones within.

[Link: www.airshowsamerica.com...]

Notwithstanding the Blue Angles on Hannity just now.

Fry's Electronics and Hot Line Construction

and the older ones who fly the former Blue Angle planes.

Thank you Denny.
tfk

All those planes....
All that fuel....
All that Global Warming....
////

re: #183 jorline

Damn Vikings...I knew it would cause global warming by sending all of those burning ships to Valhalla...algore needs to pick a bone with Odin.

Speaking of the Vikings...If Minnesota allows Franken to be a Senator, the Vikings will replace the Redskins as my least favorite team.

I mean it Minnesota.

re: #191 jcm

As long as you don't toss and turn.....

God Help us both when its pork-and-beans at dinner time.

I don't deny climate change. It happens. We're not in an ice age anymore.

What I dispute is the cause proposed by the alarmists. The Sun is only responsible for life on this planet. I fail to see how it should not be THE largest factor in this field of study.

And what I really hate is the alarmist crowd automatically thinking skeptics hate the environment. That's a false dichotomy. I think we should be good "children", but that's not the goal of the progressive greenies. It's their new preferred method to spread global marxism and to use our home to push this agenda is disgusting. Hypocritical assholes is what they are. *spit*

The most obvious refutation of Anthropogenic Global Warming is that there has been a plateau and recent cooling in spite of the 25% increase in CO2 since 1998. Theory dead.

So who can explain the effect of sunspots (or lack thereof) on weather? Anyone?

re: #122 NelsFree

What are the White Cliffs of Dover, and the limestone caves of Kentucky, and the coral atolls of the Pacific made of?

Calcium carbonate.

Laid down by eons of biological activity into a form very resistant to reintroduction into the biosphere.

There was a whole lot more carbon in the biosphere 100 million years ago. Burning of fossil fuels isn't going to return all of it into circulation. Reforestation is the best way to sink any excess CO₂ out of the atmosphere -- if that is even a good idea.

re: #180 notutopia

See my # 146.

Great minds read alike !

The scientific method; reproducible results; statistically valid data indicating not coincidence, not correlation but causation and modeling which at the least can be run with past known data with results matching later past known conditions.

re: #174 Dr. Shalit

Former VP Gore has become the ULTIMATE SCHLEMAZEL - seems like every time he appears to hype "Global Warming" - IT SNOWS!

-S-

Drives Atheists and Islamists crazy, they hate to think of a god with a sense of humor.

re: #110 gunslingah

That pretty much matches my sentiment exactly. I pride myself on having an open mind and listening to both sides of an argument before making a decision. What concerns me about the GW alarmists is their stridency and their insistence that "the debate is over" and their attempts to smear anyone who remains skeptical as a "denier" (using that term quite deliberately to conflate GW skeptics with the utterly despicable Holocaust deniers in the public mind). It seems to me that, if you were really that certain that the facts were on your side, you probably wouldn't feel such urgency to silence all debate.

Just my $.02 worth...

OK, here goes. I am NOT certain that the facts are on my side. From where I sit, with what I know now, it sure looks that way to me. I expect that as the evidence continues to pile up, you'll come around. Or if against expectations, the evidence does not pile up, I'll reconsider.

Why would I want to silence debate? I just want an informed debate. Some of the arguments against global warming are founded in misunderstandings of what sort of evidence it takes to confirm, or refute, the global warming hypothesis. A hot day now and then doesn't prove global warming. A cold winter now and then doesn't disprove it. We have to look at methodical evidence, and especially, robust evidence that aggregates climate change across several years. The advance and retreat of glaciers, the habits of migratory animals, the season of flowering of plants, and shifts in the altitude at which plants are found on mountainsides is all in that category. All these things are not sensitive to fine points of just how measurements are taken, or just where.

Most of that evidence tells the same story. It's getting warmer. There are glaciers that are growing---but nobody is claiming that global warming will mean the retreat of each and every glacier. Snowfall matters, and some glaciers may get more snow coming off a warmer sea.

There may be plants whose range is moving downslope. I don't know of any such case anywhere, but if it did happen, it wouldn't at one shot disprove global warming. In the other direction, if we had a killing heat wave in Canada, that would be quite a surprise, but by itself, it wouldn't clinch the matter.

Global Warming Alert.

It is now 15 DEGRESS BELOW ZERO in Golden Colorado. We now return you to your normally scheduled sun spots.

GAAAAHHHHHH!

Was watching news, 60 minutes comes on....
"Barney Frank is tough, he has to be tough to guide us out of the financial crisis"

*BARF* *HURL* *PUKE*
[deleted] blow job and Frank's enjoying it!

Oh and BTW, THE EARTH AND PEOPLE DO FAR BETTER WITH A WARMER WORLD. So bring it on.

re: #198 Maximu§

God Help us both when its pork-and-beans at dinner time.

Bottom bunk, for sure......

Mankind doesn't even rate to be a wart on Mother Nature's arse. She'll get rid us all one day and barely notice.

re: #187 jcm

Watts Up With That...

Thanks.
It's there under "Projects."
[Link: www.surfacestations.org...]

These photos are amazing.
[Link: www.surfacestations.org...]
If you meet a ''true believer,'' make sure he comments about each one.

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

Global Warming Alert.

It is now 15 DEGRESS BELOW ZERO in Golden Colorado. We now return you to your normally scheduled sun spots.

Gott im Himmel! Any drowning polar bears? Spontaneously combusted penguins?

Here in Wisconsin, I am looking forward to the 7F high temperature tomorrow will bring. Thank goodness for global warming, or these record cold temperatures may have been signs of the impending ice age...or wait, that's supposed to be caused by global warming as well. Damn you global warming !

re: #196 jcm

All those planes....
All that fuel....
All that Global Warming....
////

jcm -

All that Horse Hockey... - Carbon Dioxide is what we exhale - AND - what PLANTS, like TREES, BUSHES, etc. INHALE.

-S-

re: #49 Sharmuta

Sharm, I had also read where one of the main reasons the ice is breaking off Antarctica is because the glaciers and ice cap are GROWING in the continental interior with the increased weight shoving the ice off of the supporting land, which then cracks and breaks off from not being supported.

Either way the science is being perverted for political and economic agendas.

re: #172 Shug

Maximum updings for finding that article! I've saved it on my station and will GLADLY send it to any Moonbat who cries, 'Global Warming'!

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

Global Warming Alert.

It is now 15 DEGRESS BELOW ZERO in Golden Colorado. We now return you to your normally scheduled sun spots.

Wait! Fahrenheit or Celsius?

re: #210 jcm

Bottom bunk, for sure......

No pork in those reeducation camps, I bet.

re: #202 stuiec

Never, ever bring that fact up while having dinner with your Father-in-Law while dining at P.F. Changs. When I told mine that where we were sitting that day was once under water, and will be underwater again some day, he blamed Bush. It was 2003. I knew he was lost forever.

re: #220 Lincolntf

Love PF Changs!

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Born in the same town as Robert Mondavi in Minnesota, if Franken wins, I'll never admit to being from there again. The embarrassment...

re: #213 OldLineTexan

Gott im Himmel! Any drowning polar bears? Spontaneously combusted penguins?

No, but Maisey the Parrot is on the phone with the airlines and trying to book a flight to Brazil.

re: #199 Sharmuta

I agree 100 percent with your post.

re: #223 Walter L. Newton

No, but Maisey the Parrot is on the phone with the airlines and trying to book a flight to Brazil.

Give her the money! No time to get drunk and ride in a hubcap back through Mexico! RUN!

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's one of the few places where I actually love the veggies. They do something right.

re: #209 pat

The earth was a lot warmer in the Jurassic period than it is now. I blame dinosaurs in SUVs. Probably driven by early Creationists.

re: #176 Steve in Philly

I have always questioned just why getting warmer than now is considered a bad thing. There was the Medieval Warm Period where wine grapes were being grown on the British Isles. Was that such a bad thing? The only reason why warming now is "bad" is to make a buck and gain control of economies.

re: #193 Lincolntf

I went to "The First Publicly Funded Park in the United States" (according to a bronze plaque next to the graffiti stained stone piers) for my park needs when I lived in Worcester.

Aha! You're from Worcester! I went to Boot camp with a guy named Watson, from Worcester. He got kicked out after four weeks.
What did you say your last name is?

re: #204 rollingdivision

The scientific method; reproducible results; statistically valid data indicating not coincidence, not correlation but causation and modeling which at the least can be run with past known data with results matching later past known conditions.

I do such for a living. There is a common confusion between causation and correlation and have seen highly paid statisticians screw that up terribly, using correlation to get exactly the OPPOSITE result to that of reality (sort of putting your car in reverse and jamming on the gas while thinking you will go forward).

re: #217 NelsFree

Maximum updings for finding that article! I've saved it on my station and will GLADLY send it to any Moonbat who cries, 'Global Warming'!

Amazing isn't
The one constant in a changing world is the Hysteria of the Press

re: #224 stuiec

I agree 100 percent with your post.

I only agree 99%, because I don't want you to get the big head.

re: #216 FurryOldGuyJeans

Either way the science is being perverted for political and economic agendas.

We've seen lots of threads lately about science being attacked by ideologues.

re: #206 lostlakehiker

OK, here goes. I am NOT certain that the facts are on my side. From where I sit, with what I know now, it sure looks that way to me. I expect that as the evidence continues to pile up, you'll come around. Or if against expectations, the evidence does not pile up, I'll reconsider.

Why would I want to silence debate? I just want an informed debate. Some of the arguments against global warming are founded in misunderstandings of what sort of evidence it takes to confirm, or refute, the global warming hypothesis. A hot day now and then doesn't prove global warming. A cold winter now and then doesn't disprove it. We have to look at methodical evidence, and especially, robust evidence that aggregates climate change across several years. The advance and retreat of glaciers, the habits of migratory animals, the season of flowering of plants, and shifts in the altitude at which plants are found on mountainsides is all in that category. All these things are not sensitive to fine points of just how measurements are taken, or just where.

Most of that evidence tells the same story. It's getting warmer. There are glaciers that are growing---but nobody is claiming that global warming will mean the retreat of each and every glacier. Snowfall matters, and some glaciers may get more snow coming off a warmer sea.

There may be plants whose range is moving downslope. I don't know of any such case anywhere, but if it did happen, it wouldn't at one shot disprove global warming. In the other direction, if we had a killing heat wave in Canada, that would be quite a surprise, but by itself, it wouldn't clinch the matter.

Why would u base a decision on a few years information, when we have data for decades available?

re: #222 HeidiHo

Born in the same town as Robert Mondavi in Minnesota, if Franken wins, I'll never admit to being from there again. The embarrassment...

Oh, so you're a ranger.

re: #226 Lincolntf

Vegetarian Lettuce Wraps are to die for. Steamed veggie dumplings are excellent. The Ma Po Tofu is really good. And please try the Ginger Peach Decaf tea next time you go. Just delicious.

re: #150 Sharmuta

One of the largest producers of CO2 in the world.... the ocean.

BAN THE OCEAN!

Close.

Huge swarms of stinging jellyfish and similar slimy animals are ruining beaches in Hawaii, the Gulf of Mexico, the Mediterranean, Australia and elsewhere, U.S. researchers reported on Friday.

The report says 150 million people are exposed to jellyfish globally every year, with 500,000 people stung in the Chesapeake Bay, off the U.S. Atlantic Coast, alone.

SNIP

Human activities that could be making things nice for jellyfish include pollution, climate change, introductions of non-native species, overfishing and building artificial structures such as oil and gas rigs.

Creatures called salps cover up to 38,600 square miles (100,000 sq km) of the North Atlantic in a regular phenomenon called the New York Bight, but researchers quoted in the report said this one may be a natural cycle.

"There is clear, clean evidence that certain types of human-caused environmental stresses are triggering jellyfish swarms in some locations," William Hamner of the University of California Los Angeles says in the report.

SNIP

So, which is it, Reuters?

re: #181 jcm

They found a cause people are willing to give up liberty for.

And fork over a considerable amount of cash to achieve nothing but warm and fuzzy feelings.

re: #233 mich-again

We've seen lots of threads lately about science being attacked by ideologues.

Are the dark ages are coming again?

re: #182 funky chicken

Yes, I know about the late medieval warm period. I know that Greenland was warmer when it was settled than it later became, and warmer than it is now.

So what? Who is insisting that there can be no other cause of temperature changes than manmade? I'm just saying that THIS warming event looks a lot like it's manmade, and if it really gets ripping, it could take us to temperatures that would cause more harm than the cost of averting the worst of it and coping with just a fraction of the global warming that's already in the pipeline.

Kyoto is a stupid response. Cap and trade is a farce. But nuclear energy is both strategically sound (we don't have to engage in a desperate bidding war for oil) and "green" (no CO2). Wind and solar are also promising.

OT:
Former chess champion Garry Kasparov among 130 detained by Russian police during an anti-Kremlin protest in central Moscow on Sunday.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #228 FurryOldGuyJeans

I have always questioned just why getting warmer than now is considered a bad thing. There was the Medieval Warm Period where wine grapes were being grown on the British Isles. Was that such a bad thing? The only reason why warming now is "bad" is to make a buck and gain control of economies.

Och, laddie, 'tis bad for the whiskey, ne'ermind the stout.

re: #227 Iron Fist

The earth was a lot warmer in the Jurassic period than it is now. I blame dinosaurs in SUVs. Probably driven by early Creationists.

That's funny right there.

re: #227 Iron Fist

The earth was a lot warmer in the Jurassic period than it is now. I blame dinosaurs in SUVs. Probably driven by early Creationists.

Dinosaur flagelence.

re: #227 Iron Fist

The earth was a lot warmer in the Jurassic period than it is now. I blame dinosaurs in SUVs. Probably driven by early Creationists.

It was all those farting dinosaurs' that Fred Flintstone drove around....

re: #235 gregg

You betcha! Virginia MN.

It's a real jump from this is just but one of the thousands of climate change cycles which have occurred on earth for a few billion years to somehow maintaining this particular cycle is due to mankind. You need to prove it. In there times the best scientific minds of the day supported alchemy, the earth as the center of the universe, belief in witches and the need to kill them, blood letting, slavery and whiteman's burden, etc.

Is This The Longest Obama Joke Around?

Barack Obama discovers a leak under his sink,
so he calls Joe the Plumber to come and fix it.

Joe drives to Obama's house, which is located in a very nice neighborhood and where it's clear that all the residents make more than $250,000 per year.

Joe arrives and takes his tools into the house.
Joe is led to the room that contains the leaky pipe under a sink.
Joe assesses the problem and tells Obama, who is standing near the door, that it's an easy repair that will take less than 10 minutes.

Obama asks Joe how much it will cost.

Joe immediately says, "$9,500."

"$9,500?" Obama asks, stunned. "But you said it's an easy repair!"

"Yes, but what I do is charge a lot more to my clients who make more than $250,000 per year so I can fix the plumbing of everybody who makes less than that for free," explains Joe. "It's always been my philosophy. As a matter of fact, I lobbied government to pass this philosophy as law, and it did pass earlier this year, so now all plumbers have to do business this way. It's known as 'Joe's Fair Plumbing Act of 2008.' Surprised you haven't heard of it, senator."

In spite of that, Obama tells Joe there's no way he's paying that much for a small plumbing repair, so Joe leaves.

Obama spends the next hour flipping through the phone book looking for another plumber, but he finds that all other plumbing businesses listed have gone out
of business.
Not wanting to pay Joe's price, Obama does nothing.

The leak under Obama's sink goes unrepaired for the next several days.

A week later the leak is so bad that Obama has had to put a bucket under the sink.
The bucket fills up quickly and has to be emptied every hour, and there's a risk that the room will flood, so Obama calls Joe and pleads with him to return.

Joe goes back to Obama's house, looks at the leaky pipe, and says: "Let's see – this will cost you about $21,000."

"A few days ago you told me it would cost $9,500!" Obama quickly fires back.

Joe explains the reason for the dramatic increase. "Well, because of the 'Joe's Fair Plumbing Act,' a lot of rich people are learning how to fix their own plumbing,
so there are fewer of you paying for all the free plumbing I'm doing for the people who make less than $250,000. As a result, the rate I have to charge my wealthy paying customers rises every day.

"Not only that, but for some reason the demand for plumbing work from the group of
people who get it for free has skyrocketed, and there's a long waiting list of those who need repairs. This has put a lot of my fellow plumbers out of business, and they're not being replaced – nobody is going into the plumbing business because they know they won't make any money. I'm hurting now too – all thanks to greedy rich people like you who won't pay their fair share."

Obama tries to straighten out the plumber: "Of course you're hurting, Joe! Don't you get it? If all the rich people learn how to fix their own plumbing and you refuse to charge the poorer people for your services, you'll be broke, and then what will you do?"

Joe immediately replies, "Run for president, apparently."

re: #229 NelsFree

Not Watson.
Our Worcester Watsons are more likely to be in the Court Report than on LGF.

re: #214 BryanS

Here in Wisconsin, I am looking forward to the 7F high temperature tomorrow will bring. Thank goodness for global warming, or these record cold temperatures may have been signs of the impending ice age...or wait, that's supposed to be caused by global warming as well. Damn you global warming !

Here in SE Wisconsin we had a winter (2007-8) with record snowfall, then we had a summer with just one 90 degree day. Now we've had four snowstorms in the first nine days of this December. And tomorrow, it gets even better! I'm looking forward to those single digit highs.

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

Seems like more scientists are having second thoughts.

/lots of heavy duty reading

re: #201 Wishing

So who can explain the effect of sunspots (or lack thereof) on weather? Anyone?

It is actually simple to visualize, but no one really understands the cycles, just that they are there. Sunspots correspond to magnetic wave patterns becoming increasingly disruptive. The overall pattern creates mini-patterns within the matrix that would be there if the disruption did not occur. The spots are hot spots, flares. Sun gets hotter, so do we. And Mercury through Pluto.
After these magnetic disruptions reach a climatic point, the sun becomes quiescent. And a tiny bit cooler.

re: #246 HeidiHo

You betcha! Virginia MN.

MN here too. My outdoor digi-therm says 2.8 F right now.

re: #233 mich-again

We've seen lots of threads lately about science being attacked by ideologues.

The one constant about climate change....agenda hijacking science. ;)

re: #199 Sharmuta

I don't deny climate change. It happens. We're not in an ice age anymore.

What I dispute is the cause proposed by the alarmists. The Sun is only responsible for life on this planet. I fail to see how it should not be THE largest factor in this field of study.

And what I really hate is the alarmist crowd automatically thinking skeptics hate the environment. That's a false dichotomy. I think we should be good "children", but that's not the goal of the progressive greenies. It's their new preferred method to spread global marxism and to use our home to push this agenda is disgusting. Hypocritical assholes is what they are. *spit*

Hi sharm.. According to the universetoday.com the Solar output of the Sun has been the lowest measured in years. Global warming and Sun Solar output cannot be linked at this time. I unfortunately read one unscientific comment over there last year that because solar output was down that global warming had to be man made. I find that jump in logic problematic.

re: #227 Iron Fist

The earth was a lot warmer in the Jurassic period than it is now. I blame dinosaurs in SUVs. Probably driven by tasty early Creationists.

fixed

re: #233 mich-again

We've seen lots of threads lately about science being attacked by ideologues.

That's simply because it happens so often that there are so many examples of it. The press is filled with people who don't understand the basics if what science is. That's why its easy to rope them in on global warming hype.

re: #242 OldLineTexan

When it starts affecting the Rum then I'll worry.

re: #209 pat

Oh and BTW, THE EARTH AND PEOPLE DO FAR BETTER WITH A WARMER WORLD. So bring it on.

pat -

Shusssh! - don't tell anybody - in about 300 years we might return to the climate of the Renaissance.

-S-