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15 Questions 9/11 'Truthers' Need to Answer

Moonbats | Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:23:39 am PST

Speaking of the moronic 9/11 Troofer movement, here’s an excellent article at Counterknowledge on the 15 questions 9/11 ‘truthers’ now need to answer.

It’s time to turn the tables on the truthers. Rather than accept a situation in which the nutjobs and kooks who subscribe to 9/11 conspiracies can make their accusations willy-nilly, it is high time that their critics decided that they can “just ask questions” too. This particular debunker has decided that maybe, just for once, the onus for actually demonstrating the validity of their theories on the basis of systematic and critical analysis of the evidence belongs to the truthers, not to those who wish to expose their fallacies. As someone whose academic bias is based on history, I would like to pose the following challenge to the conspiracy-mongers:

Let’s take your thesis (that 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by the Bush administration, and covered up by a coalition of US government agencies, allied powers, big business and the media) as read. The following questions point to logical and factual gaps within that thesis. It is now up to you to answer these questions and explain why your theories are still valid. For your answers to be credible, they need to be detailed and based on verifiable evidence. No suppositions, no speculation, no unsupported assertions, just the facts. Stop “asking questions”, and provide answers. These fifteen initial questions will do for starters.

Read the whole thing...

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120 comments

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1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:27:45am

Whats with all the questions about Afghanistan? Bush blew up buildings in New York. DUH!

/

2 simonml  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:28:43am

To quote Rosie O'Donnell: "Two Words: Gulf of Tonkin"

/sarc (duh)

3 CIA Reject  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:28:51am

Question 16: You allege that the US government planned and executed the 9/11 attacks. This is the same US government that gave us AMTRAK and the Susan B. Anthony dollar. What makes you think these people were competent enough to plan such an attack?

4 nikis-knight  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:29:01am

As opposed to, questions 9/11 truthers actually ask themselves:
How much longer until Dad makes good on his threat to start charging rent?
Which fountians have the most quarters for making copies of my pamplets?
If the anarchist rally is on the same day as the communist rally, who can give me a ride from one to the other?
Just what is that smell, anyway?
Why won't anyone listen to me?

5 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:29:40am

I'm printing that out and reading it out loud at the dinner table on Christmas. My lazy idiot moonbat brother will be sitting at the table. should be fun. (or a disaster- but who cares?)

6 simonml  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:30:08am
(15) Finally, if the US government is institutionally ruthless enough to organise the massacre of thousands of its own citizens in a series of “false flag” attacks, then why is it too squeamish to arrange for the deaths of the supposed “truth-seekers” (David Griffin, Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, the Loose Change team, Alex Jones, etc.) who have exposed their complicity in one of the most heinous crimes a government can commit against its own people? Why are these people still alive and well, and in a position to publicise their “theories” on radio, television, in print and online?

b/c they are obviously very important people (at least in their own minds)

7 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:30:09am

George Bush is a stupid evil mastermind of the whole thing!

15 answers is in one!

/////

8 simonml  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:30:24am

re: #3 CIA Reject

Question 16: You allege that the US government planned and executed the 9/11 attacks. This is the same US government that gave us AMTRAK and the Susan B. Anthony dollar. What makes you think these people were competent enough to plan such an attack?

lol!

9 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:31:26am

Twooferism is merely a symptom of a deeper mental disorder. Any attempt to reason with them only gives them the attention they seek. It's best to simply shun them, or if you must, to ridicule them.

10 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:31:29am

re: #3 CIA Reject

Question 16: You allege that the US government planned and executed the 9/11 attacks. This is the same US government that gave us AMTRAK and the Susan B. Anthony dollar. What makes you think these people were competent enough to plan such an attack?

I'm using AMTRAK this Friday. Is there something I'm missing?
/ I am using Amtrak actually

11 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:32:05am
(10) If the WTC towers in New York City were destroyed by controlled demolitions rigged by US government agencies, then why were the fake terrorist attacks used to cover up these controlled demolitions so insanely convoluted? Why concoct a scenario involving the hijacking of planes which are then crashed into tower blocks (involving complicated planning involving remote controlled flights timed with explosives detonated in the towers, which allow plenty of opportunities for gliches and technical errors)? Why not use a more simple means, such as a truck bomb?

That's the question that I always asked troofers. Their best, most substantive answer was "Nice try on the change of direction, AGENT"

12 debutaunt  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:32:34am

Well, first of all, truthers, Bin Laden has taken credit for the attacks.

13 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:32:43am

I find myself resisting the urge to destroy my monitor every time I read about 9/11 conspiracy crap and how the real terrorists are the US government that carried out the attacks or how the US government rigged the towers to explode.

Sorry, but I was in the City. I saw the towers come down. It wasn't some frickin' rigged explosive, but two jet planes hijacked by terrorists. They murdered nearly 3,000 Americans that day, and hoped to murder 10x that number.

It's good that there are people who are countering the conspiracy crap, but there's nothing that will shake these people into reality. Reality is too difficult for them to grasp. It's too difficult to believe that there are Islamic terrorists who hate us for what we stand for - for what we represent. It's too difficult to believe that the US could be lulled into a false sense of security and get hit because air security wasn't what it should be (and it still isn't).

It's too difficult to believe that two of the tallest buildings in the world could be devastatingly destroyed in a matter of minutes by two planes obliterating their existence from the map in such a vivid and clear example of jihadi suicidal rage.

Instead, these people fashion their own reality to cope. It's a disease, but it's all they have. The truth is just too painful for them to bear. They can be entitled to their own misguided opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts.

14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:33:00am

Maddox called this:

There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.

I've been getting a lot of email lately from people sending me this stupid 9/11 conspiracy video called "Loose Change." I've tried to ignore it for months now, but you morons keep forwarding it to me, and I keep having to add more email addresses to my spam filter. The ironic part is that I'm a huge conspiracy nut, and even I can't stomach this bullshit. For example, I believe that there is a small, reptile-like creature called Chupacabra that sucks the blood of goats in Mexico. Area 51? Hell yes. Roswell? Pass me the Kool-Aid. But "Loose Change" elevates bullshit to an artform. Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid.

Unlike others who debunk 9/11 conspiracy theories, or "cons" for short, I'm not going to bother with going through intricate point-by-point rebuttals, or pointing out the hundreds of factual inaccuracies and outright lies in this "documentary," because I don't need to. In fact, I can debunk the entire story with one simple observation:

The fact that this man is alive...

15 gop_patriot  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:33:00am

Oh Lord, look at three of the four responses to that article... mind boggling stupidity...

16 CIA Reject  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:34:29am

re: #10 Nevergiveup

I'm using AMTRAK this Friday. Is there something I'm missing?
/ I am using Amtrak actually

Not that I know of...

17 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:36:13am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

From the section you quoted,
"Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid."

That's just beautiful. (Somewhat disturbing to think about, but beautiful in a way that just sums up the whole troofer movement.)

18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:36:43am

re: #15 gop_patriot

Oh Lord, look at three of the four responses to that article... mind boggling stupidity...

Only one reasonable response to those 3.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

20 manny  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:37:11am

That's one reasonable approach. I prefer the approach of mocking the dishonest ones and pitying the insane ones.

21 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:38:28am

re: #16 CIA Reject

Not that I know of...

For the short hops on the North East corridor it isn't all that bad actually. And they serve Beer!

23 CapeCoddah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:38:38am

re: #13 lawhawk

I find myself resisting the urge to destroy my monitor every time I read about 9/11 conspiracy crap and how the real terrorists are the US government that carried out the attacks or how the US government rigged the towers to explode.

Sorry, but I was in the City. I saw the towers come down. It wasn't some frickin' rigged explosive, but two jet planes hijacked by terrorists. They murdered nearly 3,000 Americans that day, and hoped to murder 10x that number.

It's good that there are people who are countering the conspiracy crap, but there's nothing that will shake these people into reality. Reality is too difficult for them to grasp. It's too difficult to believe that there are Islamic terrorists who hate us for what we stand for - for what we represent. It's too difficult to believe that the US could be lulled into a false sense of security and get hit because air security wasn't what it should be (and it still isn't).

It's too difficult to believe that two of the tallest buildings in the world could be devastatingly destroyed in a matter of minutes by two planes obliterating their existence from the map in such a vivid and clear example of jihadi suicidal rage.

Instead, these people fashion their own reality to cope. It's a disease, but it's all they have. The truth is just too painful for them to bear. They can be entitled to their own misguided opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts.

You can't fix stupid.

24 vagabond trader  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:38:56am

Personally, I have no patience with 9/11 truthers and enviro-nuts. Evacuate the UN to Somalia and lock the whole lot of them in the abandoned building.

25 lookingup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:40:21am

The Truthers lack of logic and understanding runs deep and wide.. No amount of evidence will ever bridge this river of stupidity.

26 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:40:30am

Does this guy look like someone that could be persuaded by logic?

27 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:40:35am

Example of moonbat answers to some of the questions.

1) If Al Qaeda were not responsible for 9/11, then why was Ahmed Shah Massoud’s assassination so well co-ordinated with the attacks on New York and Washington?

Coincidence. Shit happens.

2) If 9/11 was a “false flag” operation intended to justify a pre-determined plan to invade Afghanistan, then why didn’t the CIA and other US government agencies do more to facilitate ties with the NA?

Different time zones?. Union rules?

3) Why did bin Laden and al-Zawahiri suddenly leave their known locations and go to ground, if they were not anticipating imminent military action by the USA?

They had to use up their frequent flyer miles?

28 Timbre  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:41:37am

David Ray Griffin says that American imperialism and 9/11 is a manifestation of demonic evil. Instead of questioning him--a true believer doesn't answer questions anyway--we should mock him while simultaneously ignoring him (now that is evil!).

29 CIA Reject  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:42:11am

re: #21 Nevergiveup

For the short hops on the North East corridor it isn't all that bad actually. And they serve Beer!

I used to ride years ago from NYC to New London and it was usually not bad. Although I did make the mistake of looking down at the Hellgate bridge once- freaked me out pretty good that did...

30 gop_patriot  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:42:13am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Only one reasonable response to those 3.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

I love it! You ought to post it in response to the morons over there.

31 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:42:19am

re: #22 lifeofthemind

Seriously good acting from the Humph in that one.

32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:42:31am

re: #20 manny

That's one reasonable approach. I prefer the approach of mocking the dishonest ones and pitying the insane ones.

I'm still in the mockery and dersision camp myself.

33 Racer X  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:42:47am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid.

OMG that is really nasty, but funny!

34 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:43:22am

re: #29 CIA Reject

I used to ride years ago from NYC to New London and it was usually not bad. Although I did make the mistake of looking down at the Hellgate bridge once- freaked me out pretty good that did...

Actually I may be going to New London this time also.

35 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:43:27am

re: #26 Ringo the Gringo

Does this guy look like someone that could be persuaded by logic?

Wow. He was willing to sacrifice his home for that.
Now where will he sleep at night.
/

36 vagabond trader  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:44:02am

re: #22 lifeofthemind

Richard III had a strawberry thing too.

37 Lee Coller  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:44:45am

Crackpots are Crackpots, they don't listen to logic.

38 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:44:46am

re: #10 Nevergiveup

I'm using AMTRAK this Friday. Is there something I'm missing?
/ I am using Amtrak actually

AMTRAK is great to ride, but a fiscal nightmare. I regularly ride it down to Chicago.

39 thedopefishlives  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:44:54am

re: #9 Ringo the Gringo

Twooferism is merely a symptom of a deeper mental disorder. Any attempt to reason with them only gives them the attention they seek. It's best to simply shun them, or if you must, to ridicule them.

I agree on the part about the mental disorder, though the obvious caveat that I am not a psychologist does apply. Nevertheless, it's fairly obvious that conspiracy nuts are just that - nuts. There is no logic with them; if you make a point they can't refute, you become The Man, and we all know that The Man is responsible for all of the evil in the world, so you can't be trusted to tell the truth. It saves them the trouble of their head exploding - or, worse, having to admit that they're wrong.

40 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:45:05am

manny,

That's one reasonable approach. I prefer the approach of mocking the dishonest ones and pitying the insane ones.

I prefer the Penn and Teller approach of kicking them down a flight of stairs.

41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:45:32am

re: #33 Racer X

OMG that is really nasty, but funny!

As I learned over the summer, bukkake is not a dirty word in and of itself. In Japanese, it just means a sauce or gravy coating.

I know this because a place we go to offered bukkake noodles and I had to ask my wife "Can they sell those here?"

She was giggling about it for hours.

42 rexatosis  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:46:01am

One cannot expect 9/11 conspiracy loons and their "theories" to be able to understand or withstand the Socratic Method of inquiry. One can only hope the light of reason forces such an unthinking ilk back into the shadows where their ability to ensnare young gullible minds is limited to only the most fool-hardy.

43 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:46:23am

Where as I am not a 9/11 truther in any sort of way, I will say that a lot of the questions are "what if" questions, more dependent on operational possibilities, not questions dealing with cold hard facts.

I think the science that has been presented is more than enough proof of what we saw, and what actually happened.

Of course, this becomes a hamster wheel argument with the truthers, since their science stinks and they can just try to talk their way around the "what if" scenario's (as some are doing in the comments attached to that article).

44 Buck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:46:41am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maddox called this:

There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons.

Best line: being bukakked with stupid.

Only the highest level pervs will know what that means.

45 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:47:26am

re: #36 vagabond trader

Richard III had a strawberry thing too.

It was the beret.

46 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:47:31am

re: #27 Walter L. Newton

And why did bin Laden announce he and al Qaeda were responsible?

47 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:47:58am

re: #44 Buck

Best line: being bukakked with stupid.

Only the highest level pervs will know what that means.

Wow, and I only considered myself a mid-level perv.

48 mean Gene  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:48:04am

OK. I read it.
Those questions were all over the heads of any ''truther'' I have ever discussed anything with.

49 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:48:09am

re: #26 Ringo the Gringo

Does this guy look like someone that could be persuaded by logic?

He looks a little like Niel Young.

50 BackwardsBoy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:48:36am

The disturbing part about Trooferism is that some 30% of Dems believe it.
Someone's not taking their meds.

"Is it insane to think you're the last sane man on Earth?"
Will Smith, I Robot

51 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:48:50am

re: #46 FurryOldGuyJeans

And why did bin Laden announce he and al Qaeda were responsible?

It was their dream to get booked on the Tonight Show.

52 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:48:55am

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

About the same level of science competence the DI uses.

53 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:49:14am

I love Troofer thinking... Bldg 7, Bldg 7, Bldg 7.

Yeah, I wasn't pissed off on 9/11 until Bldg 7 fell... but because of that, I just couldn't wait to kick some butt.

/Idiots.

54 Racer X  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:50:15am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm glad you cleared that up.

55 ErnieG  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:50:42am

re: #44 Buck

Best line: being bukakked with stupid.

Only the highest level pervs will know what that means.

I didn't know, until I checked with the Urban Dictionary.

Sometimes it's better to remain ignorant.

56 Racer X  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:51:08am

re: #47 Creeping Eruption

Wow, and I only considered myself a mid-level perv.

*holds head up a little higher*

57 lostlakehiker  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:51:16am

From a comment on the article's site:

The US government has failed to do so. It has presented exactly zero evidence proving that the 19 alleged Muslims boarded on the four aircraft that they alleged hijacked, let alone committed the crime. It is not the duty of ordinary citizens to prove that these 19 individuals were NOT on the aircraft, but the government’s duty to prove that they WERE there. Until this author can present that evidence, his demands on the truth movement should be ignored.

Alleged Muslims. He accepts that they're Saudis etc., but he is still in doubt whether they were in fact Muslim.

We have videotape of some of them going through security. But he is in doubt whether they then boarded the planes. It doesn't occur to him that under those circumstances, the planes would not have taken off.

He cannot make the distinction between alleged, and allegedly. He's a bear of very little brain. But he has one thing we don't have: he can stand by his beliefs no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary. When we discover that we have been wrong, we change our minds, weaklings that we are.

58 Lee Coller  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:51:30am

Truthers: Name one conspiracy theory that ended up being true?

Of course, their answer will be "all of them."

59 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:52:57am

re: #43 Walter L. Newton

I think the questions form a challenge to the troofers to give us a positive theory of what they suppose happened, instead of letting them sit back and fire questions at everyone else. It's the same thing with the ID crowd - ask them to come up with possible mechanisms by which the bullshit they normally merely insinuate by trying to poke holes in evolution is supposed to actually happen. And then listen to the sound of silence, because they won't go there - at the back of their minds they know how absurd any positive theory of theirs is going to look.

60 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:53:09am

Morally bankrupt. All of them.

61 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:54:44am

re: #59 Jimmah

Apologies Walter for the fugliness of that second sentence. Hopefully you get my jist.

62 A.W.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:55:28am

If the internationalist left was smart, they would push for the UN to reform itself so it was not such an obvious joke.

They make it too easy for us to discredit the idea of submittign to the "wisdom" of the U.N.

63 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:55:49am

re: #59 Jimmah

I think the questions form a challenge to the troofers to give us a positive theory of what they suppose happened, instead of letting them sit back and fire questions at everyone else. It's the same thing with the ID crowd - ask them to come up with possible mechanisms by which the bullshit they normally merely insinuate by trying to poke holes in evolution is supposed to actually happen. And then listen to the sound of silence, because they won't go there - at the back of their minds they know how absurd any positive theory of theirs is going to look.

Well, if the idea of some of those questions is to make the truthers look stupider then they already, then I guess you are right, cinsidering some of the comments posted under the article.

64 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:56:52am

re: #61 Jimmah

Apologies Walter for the fugliness of that second sentence. Hopefully you get my jist.

Ah, er... considering the talk of bukakking on this thread, let's keep you jist out of this!

65 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:58:11am

re: #60 NYCHardhat

Morally bankrupt. All of them.

With an increasing deficit in understanding science.

66 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:58:26am
67 Salamantis  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:58:32am

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

Ah, er... considering the talk of bukakking on this thread, let's keep you jist out of this!

That pun has a steller ecchi factor.

68 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:59:20am

re: #57 lostlakehiker

Yep - facts have no power over the CT'ers brain. Remember the video of Bin Laden that was alleged to be fake because it didn't look like him?

Here's a still I took from it. Did showing that to a troofer make any difference to his claim? Nope. Not one jot.

69 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:00:00am

re: #67 Salamantis

That pun has a steller ecchi factor.

You have to admit, it was clever? (except for my spelling).

70 mean Gene  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:00:37am

re: #66 taxfreekiller

And another one:
Just what is (and why is it) the ''optimal'' temperature for the earth?
Because the Brits might like to grow vineyards again.
Because the Siberians might like to grow wheat again.
Because Greenland used to be farmland.

71 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:01:48am

re: #58 Lee Coller

Truthers: Name one conspiracy theory that ended up being true?

Of course, their answer will be "all of them."

Conspiracy theories by their very nature are to never be discovered as true; it is not a conspiracy when everyone knows the truth. How else are such idjits going to feel superior?

72 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:02:54am

re: #65 FurryOldGuyJeans

With an increasing deficit in understanding science.

I was trying to explain tempered steel to my moonbat friend. Blank stare.... I gave up.

73 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:03:44am

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

Ah, er... considering the talk of bukakking on this thread, let's keep you jist out of this!

[Link: farm3.static.flickr.com...]

74 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:04:48am

Personally, even bothering to notice the "troofers" is akin to stopping the bus to find out who the hell farted.

75 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:05:13am

re: #55 ErnieG

I didn't know, until I checked with the Urban Dictionary.

Sometimes it's better to remain ignorant.

Indeed.

76 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:07:53am

re: #67 Salamantis

That pun has a steller ecchi factor.

Clever

77 Prester John  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:09:20am

Building 7 for some reason is one of, it not THE main obsession of the Troofer crowd. I would like to hear their explanation of why there was a need for the conspirators to destroy Building 7?

What, knocking down the two towers and hitting the Pentagon wasn't enough of a provocation to get the American people riled up?

That's like saying the the Japanese hitting Battleship Row and the airfields at Pearl Harbor wasn't enough to get the U.S. to declar war, they had to sink a destroyer or two to drive us over the edge.

78 mean Gene  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:10:15am

re: #72 NYCHardhat

I was trying to explain tempered steel to my moonbat friend. Blank stare.... I gave up.

You heat the steel to allow the carbon to diffuse out.
As you pound it (like when making a horseshoe) carbon falls away.
When you submerse the pounded but still very hot steel in water it becomes more finely textured than it would if merely allowed to cool in air.
My dad's dad was a blacksmith.

79 The Other Les  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:10:18am

The one thing I've noticed about practically all of the Troofers is that they are hostile to our nation, our government, or the basic values of our civilization.

80 amateurpundit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:10:24am

My question to add to the list: now that there will be Democrats controlling both the Congress and the White House, are you going to demand the internal investigation that will flush these thousands of murderers out of their hiding places? After all, this was "Bush's" plot--just as it was "Bush's" war. So were the Democrats in on it, or not? If they weren't, then why are they still protecting the Republicans? And if they were in on it, then why aren't they exposing the Republicans for who they are, and guaranteeing political victory for the next hundred years?

81 bosforus  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:10:51am

Thought this would link to a psychiatric evaluation form.

82 amateurpundit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:11:41am

Well, that was garbled! Made sense before I hit "enter"

83 jumplandpackrepeat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:14:20am

re: #5 FrogMarch

I'm printing that out and reading it out loud at the dinner table on Christmas. My lazy idiot moonbat brother will be sitting at the table. should be fun. (or a disaster- but who cares?)


You should make it really festive and turn it into a "Twelve Days of Christmas" song.

84 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:14:27am

re: #78 mean Gene

You heat the steel to allow the carbon to diffuse out.
As you pound it (like when making a horseshoe) carbon falls away.
When you submerse the pounded but still very hot steel in water it becomes more finely textured than it would if merely allowed to cool in air.
My dad's dad was a blacksmith.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you heat tempered steel after the fact, it starts to weaken. It has reached its pinnacle strength in other words.

85 Sizzlack  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:14:44am

Asking Troofers 15 questions implies you expect them to be able to answer 15 questions.

Good luck with that.

86 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:19:46am

One really cannot expect any Truther to consider contemplating even one of these questions? For we are the loons.
/

87 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:20:14am
88 ErnieG  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:20:19am

re: #85 Sizzlack

Asking Troofers 15 questions implies you expect them to be able to answer 15 questions.

Good luck with that.

For one thing, it would make serious demands on their attention spa...Look! A puppy!

89 davinvalkri  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:22:22am

Question 15 is absolutely beautiful, as well as CIAreject's 16th question. Bravo.

90 DoesNotMatter  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:24:51am

Everytime I read something something by troofers I get genocidial urges. It offends me to share a universe, let alone a species with such idiocy.

91 Morganfrost  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:29:33am

The problem with this is that it is an attempt to confront irrational people with rational arguments. It's a bit like trying to teach a pig to dance-- it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

The best response to a 9/11 "truther" is to smile politely and back slowly towards the door. The worst possible response is to credit the truther with being the sort of person over whom reason and logic are likely to have any influence. Pretty much everyone knows that the truthers are lunatics; most reasonable people will also conclude that someone who spends his time arguing with a lunatic might be a few degrees off himself.

92 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:31:44am

re: #90 DoesNotMatter

Everytime I read something something by troofers I get genocidial urges. It offends me to share a universe, let alone a species with such idiocy.

Being the Holiday's and all.. I called an old buddy the other day. A few minutes into our conversation he said: "look up.. see the chemtrails?" I don't know, nor care what the logical explanation is for these trails.. but they ain't dangerous. Neither is my buddy, unlike these Truthers.

93 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:33:19am

re: #77 Prester John

According to the ones I spoke to building 7 was the centre for the coordination of the attacks. It housed all the big scary computers where the coordination of 'the biggest deception in history' was controlled, and so had to be destroyed. Not only that, but like everything else that went down that day, it had to be destroyed in a sneaky way that's different to how it looked, too.

Sometimes the only rational response left is to laugh.

94 steveoh  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:33:34am

I have lost both my best friend and sweet 19 year old cousin to Islamic terrorists. One in the WTC the other standing innocently at a bus stop in Israel. Those who I knew and considered friends who became troofers, I ended all contact with. Those troofers I meet now are immediately dismissed by me. I don’t waste my time energy or even a tiny place in my soul for them. I am indifferent to them, and always see them as the tin hatted morons they are. I hope they continue their nonsense to the point one day where one becomes violent towards me, so that I may legally defend myself and take from them what was taken from my innocent friend and cousin.

95 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:34:21am

re: #92 unrealizedviewpoint

Being the Holiday's and all.. I called an old buddy the other day. A few minutes into our conversation he said: "look up.. see the chemtrails?" I don't know, nor care what the logical explanation is for these trails.. but they ain't dangerous. Neither is my buddy, unlike these Truthers.

The condensation trail left behind jet aircrafts are called contrails. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature.

96 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:35:28am

re: #94 steveoh

Sorry for your losses. Do not let them provoke you into violence. You then become like those who took your loved ones. We are better people than that.

97 mean Gene  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:40:41am

re: #84 NYCHardhat

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you heat tempered steel after the fact, it starts to weaken. It has reached its pinnacle strength in other words.

Correct.
It is like a bell curve.
Once you hit the top, it's all downhill afterward.

98 steveoh  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:42:41am

re: #96 Creeping Eruption

Sorry for your losses. Do not let them provoke you into violence. You then become like those who took your loved ones. We are better people than that.

You are so right. Omit the last line. The pain is still with me every day. Indifference is the opposite of both love and hate. As I said, I will never let them see me care one way or another of their views.

99 EmmmieG  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:42:44am

I have a question for the troofers, but it would require them to evaluate what sane, normal people do, and I don't think they could.

There have been lots of examples of religiously-bent nutcases doing homicidal or crazy things for their religion. I can't, off the top of my head, think of a government that has deliberately damaged its own economy like that.

(The Kyoto treaty comes to mind, but notice that nobody has implemented it.)

100 Prester John  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:44:29am

#93 Jimmah,

Thanks, I hadn't heard that one.

101 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:55:26am

Regarding:

(10) If the WTC towers in New York City were destroyed by controlled demolitions rigged by US government agencies, then why were the fake terrorist attacks used to cover up these controlled demolitions so insanely convoluted? Why concoct a scenario involving the hijacking of planes which are then crashed into tower blocks (involving complicated planning involving remote controlled flights timed with explosives detonated in the towers, which allow plenty of opportunities for gliches and technical errors)? Why not use a more simple means, such as a truck bomb?


Please produce at least one explosives worker (there would have been many) who concealed the esplosives at the critical points, then concealed the detonators, the wiring, etc etc etc, either at the time of construction or, even less probable, after; working, I suppose, at night, in offices occupied during the day; ripping out wall coverings after 5 PM, drilling holes; putting in charges and wires; re-patching and repainting all the finishes and cleaning up before the secretaries arrive at 9 am.

It is impossible, and these "truthers" are morons in the abyss.

— Ojoe, architect.

102 descolada9  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 11:59:06am

Great article, but unfortunately it's like trying to argue with Greenies. It's a religion for them and they are not going to listen to reason. However, that does mean we can spend plenty of time mocking the crap out of them, for which I am happy.

103 Caliphater  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:12:13pm

Myself personally I have always subscribed to the DMV debunking theory -- so I would ask the question: have you ever been to a DMV and seen how the government operates?

104 hazzyday  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:15:28pm

I thought point no. 15 was pointed.

Anyone.. Anyone who is a troofer or inclined such should ask themselves a question or two as the basis of their logic.

1. Am I paranoid? Am I just an emotional contrarian without any facts at hand? Do I really want to be sane?

To me this is a sign of the times where we have been enabling victimhood in people. This is an easy way for them to be a victim.

If one watches the Michelle Malkin video's of Alex Jones you can see what a truly rotten person Alex Jones is. The term scum of the earth was invented for him.

While the Fed's are powerful and too much so, they are still incompetent in regards to pulling something like this off.

105 looking closely  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:32:26pm

I should point out that there were thousands of eyewitnesses to the events of 9-11, including individuals who were actually in the towers at the time and survived (let alone during the prior weeks when the mythical controlled demolition explosives had to be planted). Not one of them has come forward to refute the official story, and there is all sorts of corroborating evidence to support the official story (including, but not limited to, eyewitness testimony by both witnesses and planners, forensic evidence, intelligence, etc).

Anyway, while some of these "troofers" probably are clinically psychotic, for the ones who aren't the "troofer" mythologies are akin to faith-based beliefs. They're "true" because they feel right, not because there is objective evidence to back them up.

Consequently, not being able to assemble their "facts" into a coherent narrative really doesn't matter to them. If they were capable of assembling facts into a proof (of anything) they wouldn't be troofers to begin with. The fact that none of them can rise to the challenge and answer the 15 questions isn't going to convince any of them of anything, nor make them go away.

In short, while possibly amusing to non-troofers, these sorts of challenges aren't going to end the "debate". You generally can't use logic to argue people out of positions they didn't get into via logic.

IMO, the only "solution" to trutherism is abject mockery and public humiliation.

106 iam7545  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:53:38pm

Question 16 - What is the name of your Starship?

107 karl__lembke  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 12:59:36pm

From the article:

Thirdly, it makes the task of a truther an easy one: all he or she (there seem to be few female truthers around, which hopefully means that they won’t reproduce) has to do is google to get the appropriate “story” from Prison Planet, 9/11 Blogger, What Really Happened or a similar website. Hey presto, they get what they want: “The FBI said there were no phone calls from AA77!”; “4,000 Jews didn’t turn up to work at the WTC on 9/11!”; “Silverstein ordered the demolition of WTC7!” And so on and so forth.

Any genuine sceptic dealing with truthers - whether online or in the flesh - then has to (1) work out what the hell his or her interlocutor is talking about, and (2) ask themselves how exactly they made this claim, and if it has any substance. Anyone lacking either patience or detailed knowledge of the events of 11th September 2001 may be tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Debunkers are left with the time-consuming task of researching the historical background, and trying to assemble the relevant technical and scientific information, before they can actually verify the facts for themselves. In short, the truther can throw out a red herring or an outright distortion in a matter of minutes, leaving it up to other net users to take the time and trouble to verify their origin and accuracy.


In the battle between evoluton and creationism, this tactic is known as the "Gish Gallop". Duane Gish made a name for himself at debates by tossing out a large number of "problems" with evolution in short order. Each "problem" takes five seconds to assert, and at least fifteen minuts to properly refute, and few debaters have the skill to mount a counter-attack that won't alienate the audience.

108 so.cal.swede  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:44:46pm

re: #2 simonml

To quote Rosie O'Donnell: "Two Words: Gulf of Tonkin"

/sarc (duh)

GOOGLE IT

seriously though, Troofers don't have to answer ANY questions.. they are a waste of time and any time spent on them is equal to acknowledgment in their book.

109 marwan's daughter  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 1:46:24pm

Why will they not go away? They've been refuted over and over again yet they refuse to acknowledge the cold, hard facts.

But they are not the worst strain of counterknowledge out there. At least they don't have millions, or billions, of dollars to push their false knowledge onto everyone else. Discovery Institute and that Hubbard worshipping cult are much worse than these guys.

110 J.S.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 2:05:38pm

re: #109 marwan's daughter

Not to mention the world-wide antisemites/palestinian-terrorist worshippers at the BBC.

111 LGoPs  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 2:19:04pm
Finally, if the US government is institutionally ruthless enough to organise the massacre of thousands of its own citizens in a series of “false flag” attacks, then why is it too squeamish to arrange for the deaths of the supposed “truth-seekers” (David Griffin, Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, the Loose Change team, Alex Jones, etc.) who have exposed their complicity in one of the most heinous crimes a government can commit against its own people? Why are these people still alive and well, and in a position to publicise their “theories” on radio, television, in print and online?


I think the most telling point is this last one - why are these people still alive? Just the fact that they still draw breath is proof of their idiocy......

112 LGoPs  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 2:21:21pm

Another point. These same people who feel compelled to 'question' their government about 9-11 are the very ones, I would wager, that lap up everything Obama and the Democrats tell them.....unquestioningly. Who wants to bet?

113 6pat6  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 2:29:00pm

re: #13 lawhawk

There are far too many people in the US that think as such:

1) That movies like JFK and other such Oliver Stone productions are actually the truth;

2) They are of the same mentality of that shows like UFO Hunters, X-Files, are real, and movies like Independence day are indeed plausible;

3) They truly see conspiracy behind every tree, under every rock, and in everything they hear, see, or touch. They simply do not see reality!

4) And, I'll bet money, that nearly all of them are end-products of the US government school system.

There is a ripe environment for Troofers to grow from. Ignorance is a wonderful fertilizer.

114 6pat6  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 2:29:19pm

re: #112 LGoPs

Absolutely.

115 J.S.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 3:00:51pm

I also suspect that this phenomenon of engaging in conspiratorial thinking (sans evidence, sans reason) is world-wide. The CBC a year or so after 9/11 did a "special" on conspiracy theories (not to debunk the conspiracy theories, but to claim that they're "valuable.") And, one of the biggest of the conspirators the CBC was hyping was some idiot in France -- whose printed moronic musings were an instant "hit" and leaped to number one, on France's "best-seller" list. What was propelling the idiocy was sheer hatred of the United States. It was extremely obvious (or at least obvious to everyone not consumed by paranoiac hatred masquerading as conspiracy theories). (What the French moron was able to do was make Muslims into "victims" and Americans into devious, conniving perpetrators.
To this day I despise them and their troofers followers...they are "worthy" only of being spat upon.)

116 rp1138  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 3:01:09pm

re: #112 LGoPs

Another point. These same people who feel compelled to 'question' their government about 9-11 are the very ones, I would wager, that lap up everything Obama and the Democrats tell them.....unquestioningly. Who wants to bet?

People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them.

-Eric Hoffer

117 wiffersnapper  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:11:38pm

Ron Paul would be fuming right about now.

118 docremulac  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:09pm

I thought of one that shoots the conspiracy theories down as well as any I've ever heard.

If the twin towers were brought down by planted explosives, why go through all the complications of having planes fly into the buildings? Just say terrorists planted the explosives and send a fake letter saying "We're terrorists and we planted explosives in the twin towers". That would be a lot easier than flying airplanes by remote, faking passenger lists or whatever the stupid story is.

Just say: "Planted explosives brought the towers down, terrorists planted the explosives."

Not any point in reasoning with morons though.

119 Ron Shaw  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 8:06:06am

I see a pattern in the 15 questions which would effectively render them impossible to answer by 9-11 'Truthers'. To answer any of these questions one would need; to pursue factual information, to possess intelligence, the ability to reason and the ability to accept the truth whatever that truth may be. The 9-11 'Truthers' cannot handle, that from which they are named, the truth about 9-11 or the state of America, the rest of the world and terrorism as it exists now and existed then! It is apparent for these 'Truthers' that the attacks in and on America on 9-11 were merely another catalyst to be used to perpetrate their on-going propaganda program showcasing their hatred of and disgust for America. The truth is, they see America as evil...and their candidate of choice will be inaugurated next month. Truth in and of itself is neuter but in the real world it can mean good or bad and that's a fact!

120 Nemesis6  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:52:37am

My mind altered the title to "15 medications 9/11 truthers need to take".


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